Setting up shop

The mall-maker The concept store trailblazer Carlos Jereissati Filho Carla Sozzani Iguatemi Group, São Paulo — For the 10 Corso Como, Milan — Since defining a new approach to retail in the early 1990s, Ask the experts man behind this Brazilian empire, success Carla Sozzani has continued to place an emphasis on shopping as an experience Leaders of the pack comes from catering to the community. and applied the concept to cities around the world.

You’d be hard-pressed to deny The Jereissati Filho family practically invented Carla Sozzani is an Italian former fashion editor into English as “concept store”. It became a way that retail has been in flux of high-end shopping centres in Brazil and the man and founder of 10 Corso Como (10cc) in Milan, to describe places of a certain atmosphere – a mar- late. But it’s not all doom and at the helm today is second-generation scion widely regarded as the world’s first concept store. keting tool. Carlos Jereissati Filho. As ceo of the Iguatemi It was a revelation when it opened in an undesir- gloom, as the snappiest brands Group he leads a team of 2,700 people and con- able area of the city in 1991, selling clothing along- Yours was the first shop to ofer experiential and most successful players prove. trols three commercial towers, two premium out- side books, art and homeware, and adding a café retail. Do you think this idea is still as impor- Whether it’s understanding how lets and 16 malls in four Brazilian states. As for his where shoppers could take a break from browsing tant today? People could drink a cofee, try on a to nurture a personable shopping next step? Launching an e-commerce platform, to enjoy a cappuccino. Phrases such as “concept jacket or look at an exhibition. The aim today is showcasing the select brands that are present in its store” and “experiential retail” are bandied about still for customers to have all their senses stimu- experience and customer loyalty or shopping centres. so often these days that they have lost meaning but lated. It’s part of living an experience; a conver- comprehending that investing in Sozzani was a pioneer in creating a comprehensive sation starter. Today I believe that is even more something that lasts reaps dividends How does Iguatemi continue to stay relevant in-store experience. 10cc now important than it was 27 years ago. in the long-term, the actions of the in this market? The key is to always innovate and has outposts in Shanghai, Beijing, Now there is too much communi- be very close to your community in order to under- Seoul and New York; the latest cation. But young people come in retail frontrunners demonstrate a stand and anticipate their needs. We have a diverse addition, in Manhattan, opened and don’t look at their telephones, forward-thinking attitude and an and democratic mix, and our stores and services in 2018 in the newly renovated instead they sit and chat. I see ability to adapt. can be enjoyed by groups with varying spending Seaport area. It sells fashion from a them. It’s incredible. powers. We want to keep our Brazilian identity and mix of heavyweight brands, includ- flavour while also ofering relevant fashion and ing Margiela, and up-and-coming Why did you decide to open in In this chapter we travel the luxury brands from other parts of the world. designers such as Sies Marjan. New York? I wasn’t interested in world – from Brazil’s retail capital And as with all of 10cc’s shops opening in New York until I saw São Paulo to Seattle, via Shanghai Many people say that the mall business, at it’s got plenty of other attractions, the location. It’s in a former fish and San Francisco – to speak to least in the US, is in decline. How do you housing a gallery, an Italian restau- market that was built in 1822; it’s avoid a similar fate in Brazil with Iguatemi? rant, a lounge bar and a garden. a 2,600 sq m space and it’s all on the folk with their finger on the Customers increasingly expect a high level of ser- one level. Can you believe it? The pulse. Some simply came up with vice and special experiences. We are known for our How did you come to open 10CC area is undergoing huge renova- an enduring idea before anyone excellent customer service and for the intimate in 1991? I had been a fashion editor tions. It’s pedestrianised and all the else; others have realised that the relationships we create with our clients. Our shop- for 19 years with Vo g u e I t a l i a and houses around are very low-rise, ping centres are platforms for leisure, community then I launched Italian Elle. I grew so you feel like you’re in a village. traditional paradigms of shopping and family life. We provide clients with personal tired of it so I opened a gallery and then a book- There are views of the Brooklyn Bridge. It made have to be rethought in the 21st shoppers, concierges and lounges and create expe- shop but I ended up missing fashion. I decided to me feel like I did when I opened in Milan, in what century. Their collective expertise riences that can’t be had online. We also want to create a destination where people could come and was considered the outskirts of the city. give customers cultural experiences by supporting meet. I did the only thing I knew, which was editing means retail is more diverse and some of the major events in the Brazilian art world. magazines, except instead of editing pages, I edited What defines your space in Manhattan? Well, decentralised than ever – and the tables and racks. I put all my favourite things in the we are not a department store. We are not a chain. world richer for it. Why do Brazilians love malls so much? They’re shop. In the beginning, people couldn’t understand People can come to us to have a new type of shop- looking for a place to shop, dine and socialise. why there were shoes with books, candles with ping experience. I don’t think there are other shops Iguatemi ofers all the conveniences of security, clothes, photography with suitcases. It wasn’t until like ours in the city, with a gallery and a big café comfort and integration of stores in one place, with an Italian journalist wrote a story about my shop and restaurant and the books. It might be in New plenty of outdoor spaces, green areas and interac- that people started to understand. She wrote that York but this is slow shopping. Come and buy a tion with the city and the community. 10cc was a new concept in retail; it got translated book and have a seat while you pay.

236 237 Setting up shop / Ask the experts The retail architect The interior designer To r q u i l M c I n t o s h Maria Veerasamy Sybarite, London — Torquil McIntosh and business partner Simon Mitchell have , — Spending her early career at a company that placed an long had a passion for retail design. Today their work informs the fit-outs of shops emphasis on craftsmanship made a significant impression on Maria Veerasamy, who the world over. continues to champion quality goods that last a lifetime.

While most architects avoid focusing on one sector, What are the most important details for strong Maria Veerasamy isn’t your typical ruthless to cut costs and have higher margins. Suddenly when Torquil McIntosh co-founded Sybarite in retail design? One of our favourite subjects is fit- executive with nothing but growth on her mind. there were mid-season sales and new collections 2002 he dedicated it to luxury retail and hospitality. ting rooms. It’s proven that more than 50 per cent The Swedish-born ceo of Svenskt Tenn is a 11 times a year, which I didn’t feel comfortable Today he is high-end fashion’s go-to architect, with of people who use fitting rooms go on to buy three tailor by trade and values quality, handwork and with because I come from a craft background and a wholesale, hands-on approach to everything from or more products but only seven per cent like the consistency above all else. She joined the company quality design takes time. It was no fun working large-scale commissions to small details such as experience; people dislike fitting rooms because in 2011, 87 years after it was founded by furniture this way – you can’t create the complicated styles hangers. Projects that his team of 50 have worked they have bad lighting, there are no hooks, it’s and textile designer Estrid Ericson. Although the you want, whether clothes or interiors. We have on include 250 boutiques for Marni and 750 stufy and there’s no space for their partner. We’re Stockholm-based label is now globally recognised to really focus on craftsmanship and educate the Stefanel shops, with prefabricated fit-outs designed rebranding 130 shops for Thomas Pink and we’re for its unapologetically colourful and patterned customers today. The young are not aware of the for franchise owners to customise interiors to their tripling the size of the fitting rooms. Decluttering homeware, Veerasamy has been working to excellence and complexity within the products own specifications. Sybarite also transformed the the ceiling space is also something we’re obsessive maintain its original product-focused ethos and that we sell at Svenskt Tenn, and it’s my aim to run-down Beijing mall Shin Kong about. It occupies about 40 or 50 boutique thinking. This entails help them understand that they’re Place (skp), turning it into an per cent of what you’re visually stoking historic relationships with buying something that will last upscale department store with a perceiving so if you make it beau- local manufacturers, refusing to for a lifetime – and for the next new name, corporate identity and tiful and part of the whole envi- retire the bold designs that the generation as well. look. Three years on, skp ranked as ronment, it frames the venue and company has been producing since the fourth most successful luxury becomes very important. its conception (such as those of How have you maintained that department store in the world, Austrian luminary , high quality as Svenskt Tenn has as measured by sales per square What questions do you ask that who joined Ericson in 1934) and grown? I think we are still small: metre in a report it commissioned. others don’t? Simple things to do promoting a more sustainable 95 per cent of sales are through with sustainability and provenance production philosophy. Put simply? our own shops. When it comes to How closely do you work with a of materials. For example, why not Quality over quantity. the Josef Frank designs and the brand? Very. If you can’t have that stick a drinking fountain in a shop furniture, we are still working with kind of interaction with the deci- instead of giving customers plastic What did you do before Svenskt some of the same companies that sion-makers you’re not going to get water bottles? You can make it look Te n n ? I grew up in Hovmantorp, our founder was working with in the right results. Alberta Ferretti high-end. Old-fashioned ideas are , and worked in the same the 1940s and 1950s – except now is a great example. She did her informing the future. glass factory that my mother and it’s the next generation. We work research for three years [to refur- father had. It was nice to work with primarily with Swedish producers bish her shops], then picked up the Do you have a signature look? my hands. I went on to train as a and 80 per cent of what we sell is in phone and said, “Guys, you’re my architects.” She I’d say it’s the flip side – not imposing a signature tailor then joined a fashion company called Indiska Sweden. The real issue is that this new generation knew we were looking at retail in a diferent way. look on the retailer. Our greatest asset is that we in the 1980s. At that time they worked closely with of craftsmen needs more work: there are few of us invest time in our clients and come up with a unique India, bringing in crafted goods and clothes, and buying from them, so for me to keep this production What makes a good store in terms of architec- solution for them, not our own stylistic crusades. I’m half Indian so for me it felt like home. The 21 process secure in the future there need to be more ture and interior design? Consistency, authen- years I spent at this company were my schooling in companies that buy high-quality crafted goods. ticity and an underlying thread or style relevant to How is retail design evolving? Retailers can no retail: logistics, purchasing, sales – everything. the brand, its products and its consumer. Every longer rely on product and price. Changes to con- What advice would you give to someone who is touchpoint the customer is involved with is what sumer behaviour create new challenges and oppor- How has retail changed since your time at going into a similar line of business? Recognise we call a house style. The weight of the door handle tunities. As technology delivers convenient retail, Indiska? When I joined there were lots of skilled that a product can live for a long time. Customers when you enter the store, the material beneath your there must be inspirational spaces for consumers to craftsmen in India, which attracted companies all don’t need a new plate or new furniture every year. feet, the sight lines, way-finding, even the smell – all experience the brand on a deeper level. We must across Sweden, even the likes of h&m and Ikea. You have to have a long-term perspective and think these things have to be controlled. out-think ever-more savvy customers. Then everything became about efciency; you had about the environment.

238 239 Setting up shop / Ask the experts

The department store stalwart The shop scientist Erik Nordstrom Bob Neville Nordstrom, Seattle — In a climate where department stores are floundering, New Balance, Shanghai — Working from a design lab where new concepts and layouts Nordstrom is bucking the trend by understanding its customer base and employing are tried and tested long before they hit the high street, Bob Neville has become a leading a chameleon-like willingness to adapt. exponent of the ‘brand experience’.

Headquartered in Seattle and operating since around for a while and we’ve long had a culture When Bob Neville isn’t flying around the world, How much does building life-sized mock-ups 1901, publicly traded Nordstrom is the US’s larg- that has been focused on serving the customer overseeing shop fit-outs, he’s often at the Bird help you as a designer? It seems counterintuitive est luxury retailer. The Nordstroms are still at the – so our organisation is, I think, quite nimble in Centre, New Balance’s clandestine “Alice in that in the time of virtual reality we would find the helm after four generations and having family responding to how the customer is changing. We’ve Wonderland” laboratory outside Shanghai. Here he benefit in a big hulking space like this. But I think ties has its advantages, argues co-president Erik also made investments in digital capabilities fairly and his team design, test and build full-sized shop that only reflects what we as human beings need – Nordstrom, who has also been a shoe buyer for early and before it was crystal-clear how that was layouts for immediate use or as forward-thinking and how we can better learn. the company. “We really care; our name is on the going to end up – it still isn’t crystal-clear. Things experiments. The Hong Kong resident and former building,” he says. “We had generations ahead of continue to change. Adidas executive has been working in the East Do you possess the tools to turn around a bad us who did some incredible things, not only since the 1990s. He became global creative direc- location? You can have a great box with all the created a company but a culture.” Nordstrom – Is customer service the diferentiator between tor at New Balance in 2008, opened the brand’s parts but if it’s in the middle of a desert, it’s never which stocks everything from high-street brands you and competitors? In the end it’s very simple: first “experience store” in Beijing in 2009 and going to work. There are deserts in any city that you to luxury labels in its department it’s what the customer wants, and describes one of his tasks as taking never want to be in and that’s why stores – has opened a large mens- it’s our job to know what that is. a largely wholesale company into significant high streets charge the wear outpost in Manhattan, with Customers shouldn’t have to fill out high-street retail. When he joined rates they do. even larger children’s and wom- surveys and make it obvious for us New Balance he realised the com- enswear oferings across the street all the time; we need to be close to pany was cobbling together its shop Where does technology fit in? to follow. Its secret is quality stock them. Elements such as greeting the displays rather than taking the same Augmented reality is becoming and knowing both its customer customer, being well-stafed with painstaking approach to design and more relevant and real rather than base and the market, which is why great people who really care, and testing that goes into its shoes. The a gimmick. But I can see some techy it has also invested in a lower- having a liberal approach to returns upshot was the creation of dedi- environments becoming too ster- priced Nordstrom Rack brand – those things haven’t changed cated spaces for retail concepts – or ile, so it has to be a mix. There has in the US and Canada, a service- over the years. But we’ve had “brand experiences” – where every- to be a combination of old-school orientated Nordstrom Local con- to add capabilities: taking friction thing from lighting to materials can service and technology to bring cept and e-commerce. out of their shopping experience be tested prior to roll out. brands to life. Tactility, stories, and being able to deliver speed feelings and comfort, combined Why the decision to bet big on and convenience. What will physical retail look with technology. bricks-and-mortar? Physical like in the future? There’s a lot assets are an important part of the A lot of traditional department of physical space out there and Will your job exist in 10 years? mix for us. There are some things stores have been struggling. there are going to be more and One hundred per cent, yes. It will that can only be done in a shop, such as altera- Why is Nordstrom bucking that trend? more places to experience brands, try products on just evolve as the tools develop; I learned to draw tions, and for a lot of customers touching and feel- It’s tough for us, as it is for any industry going and order online. When it comes to physical shops, with a pencil and now we can do things with the ing products is an important part of the buying through a transformational trend. We’ve had to people need to have an enhanced experience. Apple Pencil. At some point I assume there will be process, especially with fashion. The people in our focus on a couple of areas. We’ve talked about ser- an algorithm that can design but there’s a random- shops also continue to be very important. vice and experience; the other would be fashion Is brand experience just a fancy way to say ness in a creative individual that’s hard for a com- experience. That means having the best product shopping? No, they are two diferent things. Today puter to replicate. Is nimbleness the secret to dealing with retail in the world – and increasingly that means prod- we can buy any brand anywhere in the world so market changes? I think for us, number one ucts not available everywhere, which have some shopping is no longer the domain of the high street. What does China have to tell us about retail? is really focusing on the customer. That’s a line scarcity appeal. That requires us to partner with That’s where the word “experience” comes in. It’s People say shopping is all going to happen online. I that any retailer can use but when the customer the world’s best brands, whether big and estab- a question of what value we bring to the retail expe- haven’t seen any sign of that here. The way brands is changing, the more customer-centric you are, lished or digitally native. rience and, alongside enhancing online activity, present themselves and engage with customers is the more nimble you are. Our company has been that’s about bringing the brand to life in 3D. evolving but I don’t see any lack of openings.

240 241 Setting up shop / Ask the experts The e-commerce ethicist The shopfitter Michael Preysman Ruth Toechterle Everlane, San Francisco — After founding an online retail clothing business, Michael Interstore, Zürich — Ruth Toechterle firmly believes in the future of bricks-and-mortar Preysman shunned the idea of a physical shop. Now his business model puts online and retail and delivers shop design with an emphasis on customer experience. For her, the bricks-and-mortar hand in hand. key is shaking up the shop floor.

Michael Preysman founded the US e-commerce thing for the customer. We try to price our prod- Ruth Toechterle is the managing director of How are high streets changing? All the changes brand Everlane in 2010, his goal being to create ucts fairly and openly and use great factories that Interstore, a Zürich-based retail-design agency we have talked about for a long time – from shrink- a transparent business. To that end the clothing are sustainable. We also don’t discount too much under the umbrella of global shopfitting company ing retail spaces to shops as showrooms – are slowly retailer employs ethical factories, shares the true because we want to ofer the lowest price we can Schweitzer (see page 271); she joined Interstore and happening but it’s not a fast process. We will see cost of everything it produces with its customers every day. Radical Transparency is a way of both its parent company in 2011. The agency has been retail formats move to diferent locations – away and is built on a direct-to-consumer model that communicating this ethic to the customer and developing award-winning concepts for the retail from the high street and towards trafc hubs and cuts out the middlemen (and women), enabling it enabling them to hold us accountable. sector since 1987 and has a worldwide network of residential areas. Retail has to go where the cus- to sell high-quality essentials at a fraction of the clients, from supermarket conglomerates to family- tomer is. But whatever happens, physical shops are price of a conventional retailer. In 2012, Preysman Why did you change your mind about shut- run boutiques. With a team of 30 across four loca- here to stay. We have to re-evaluate the role of the told The New York Times, “we are going to shut the ting down before opening a shop? When we tions, Interstore ofers everything from shop and person in the shop. Service is important and design company down before we go to physical retail”. In made that statement – which we believed in – it interior design to visual marketing and branding is part of the experience too. 2017, however, Everlane opened its was because retail at that time was for more than 90 international cli- first shop in New York, followed driven by discovery. Our view was ents, including La Grande Épicerie What does your ideal shop look by a second in San Francisco. It’s that discovery was moving online de Paris and Dunnes Stores. The and feel like? I love small shops reasonable to be sceptical about and Instagram has proven that to company’s philosophy lies in rei- but I also love big shops such as the moralising trend among digital be true. But the world of retail is magining retail via innovative, Selfridges. The question is what are retail start-ups but they may be our now diferent again: it’s driven by engaging formats, in collaboration you getting out of the experience? best hope for curbing the race-to- service. You want to return items, with clients. I want to experience a product the-bottom led by online mega- try on as many things as possible, world and good service; it has to retailers. For that reason alone, order online and pick up in-store, How is Interstore reimagining be authentic. One of my favourites they’re worth paying attention to. order in-store and receive at home. retail? Reimagining means keep- is Victorienne in Bolzano (see page By building our own point of sale ing your eyes wide open, mixing 66). [Owner] Charlotte Marschall When you started, which other we can integrate all of these com- up teams and disciplines, combin- has an amazing product selection retailers did you take your lead ponents. We also believe that great ing old with new, working with and is a great consultant. It’s a good from? We took inspiration from architecture can inspire, and we’ve experts and customers. We try to example of how you can establish three main categories. One was the invested in spaces that bring people create an open dialogue. It’s not only yourself as a small boutique in the direct-to-consumer world. At the together and create a feeling of about creating a compelling story, middle of nowhere. You don’t have time Warby Parker was leading the transparency that goes beyond the it’s also about sales. It’s about talk- to be located on Oxford Street. pack in bringing a more transparent product itself. ing with our customers, constantly and fairer pricing structure to the customer [in watching global trends and always being willing Should we integrate technology into bricks- eyewear]. Another was design-driven companies Do you see e-commerce evolving in a con- to challenge currently held ideas. and-mortar shops? Why overload a shop with such as [US furniture giant] Herman Miller, which structive way? I don’t think about it in terms of technology when you should work on what online has built classics that have stood the test of time. constructive or not; I think there are trends in both What elements are central to good retail can’t ofer? With online you can’t create, taste, Finally, we looked at companies that have impacted directions. E-commerce is putting a lot of pressure design? Focus on the experience you are creating. smell and sample a product. In a shop I can walk culture in a positive way. Whole Foods, for example, on delivering things really fast at the lowest price The right light is always important but it’s not what out with the bag; if I order online I don’t get the changed the way consumers thought about food. possible, and ultimately that’s dangerous for both will make or break the experience. Start by looking product immediately. Shopping is about trying the long-term value of the product and the world. at the brand’s dna and ask yourself: what do I want things, mixing things up and being with friends. Why did you decide to use the label ‘Radical Not everything can be fast and cheap, and it comes the shop to be like? Then translate that into the More and more people are happy not to have their Transparency’ and what does it mean? Radical at the expense of both the people making stuf and brand experience, selecting materials and colours phone or tablet with them at certain times of the Transparency really didn’t come about until a the environment. There’s a balance to be struck that create a space embodying your brand. The day. Shopping should be a relaxing, luxurious couple of years in. We always try to do the right and Everlane tries to strike that balance. challenge is to push a new idea and make change. moment in which you are not connected.

242 243 Setting up shop / Ask the experts

The brand revivalist The pop-up player James Daunt Mohamed Haouache Waterstones, London — Brought in by the biggest chain of bookshops in the UK to Storefront, New York — With bricks-and-mortar retail taking a hit from online save it from extinction, James Daunt introduced individuality to the chainstore concept competition, and high streets littered with empty shops, Haouache’s scheme to make and in the process gave it a new lease of life. pop-up spaces readily accessible is helping to revitalise the retail landscape.

James Daunt’s eponymous bookshop was born on ideas, values and culture, and that resonates well Launched in 2013 by Frenchman Mohamed didn’t collapse, it just wasn’t that exciting or inno- London’s Marylebone High Street in 1990 and has in the world we’re in at the moment – certainly Haouache, Storefront aims to make the commercial vative anymore. The degree of sophistication of since become more than a city institution (see page with younger people. If you look around you at real-estate world more connected, agile and acces- customers is getting higher and higher – and retail 102). Wielding a Daunt Books tote bag identifies Waterstones, there are a few grey hairs but gener- sible. The business now ofers retail space for rent in needs to keep innovating to keep up. Londoners not only as purveyors of great literature ally it’s an astonishingly young customer base. We 17 cities from Paris (where Storefront was originally but also as supporters of the kind of wholesome have the most difculty with our older customers, established) to New York. The concept has made What will the high street look like 10 years independent retail that this six-location mini-chain which you would have thought is slightly counter- getting a shop as simple as booking a flight: a brand from now? I think we’re going to see more hybrid embodies. Daunt’s experience in running character- intuitive. They use Amazon much more, they use can find and secure a space online and launch a retail spaces. We’re already seeing a number of ful spaces (not to mention his nose for business) Kindle much more, they often don’t think – as we pop-up shop for as little as a few hundred euros, projects selling clothes and combining that with a is what led the owners of Britain’s largest book- have to make our customers believe – that the book rather than investing much more in a permanent co-working space. There will be more of that kind shop chain, Waterstones, to hire him as managing bought from a bookshop is a much better book home. Haouache believes that though the future of of thing, plus exciting and collaborative pop-up director in 2011. At the time, belea- than a book bought from Amazon. retail sales may be online, brands shops. We could move to a model guered by the rise of Amazon and will always need bricks-and-mor- where the owner of the retail space Kindle, the company was on the Why have some of your new tar to connect with (and delight) will ofer the space for free. verge on bankruptcy. By allowing branches opened without the customers. Storefront is oiling the each of the 293 branches to develop Waterstones branding? I’ve wheels of the pop-up movement Are developers beginning to its own identity and books selec- opened 30-odd shops in the past and tempting e-commerce brands think differently about the tion – and so foregoing deadening few years. We’ve opened a lot as into shopkeeping. It has shown value that good independent uniformity – Daunt has turned the Waterstones but they’re all big the often-byzantine world of real retail can bring to commercial business around. shops that I expect and identify as estate how easy the transition can projects? Developers are trying to Waterstones. When I open small be while giving a platform to small bring a new kind of entrepreneur Can you run a chain bookshop ones, I call them something else. brands with big ideas. into their retail mix. One way to like you would an independent? For me, Waterstones has a strong bring excitement into a project Should you? I think in the case of brand: you expect to come in and How did Storefront come about? is to bring in a young business. a bookshop, you have to. One of have a complete range of books. If Through pure luck. I worked on We’ve seen a similar trend with the curiosities of bookshop chains you go to a small shop that has an Wall Street and decided to leave shopping malls. is that they don’t work if you try idiosyncratic and small range, it finance in 2012 with no back-up. to do all the things that a conven- shouldn’t be called Waterstones. A friend contacted me and asked There’s a social factor at work tional chain does. I think that’s the me to help her find a pop-up here because Storefront makes nature of the product: we have literally hundreds So having a consistent look is not important? shop in Paris. I spoke to a property broker and it easy to use would-be vacant sites. How does of thousands of books to choose from, so you’re I don’t think it needs to look consistent but you he had nothing. Because I am kind of contrar- an empty shop afect a community? An empty always curating. How you curate one place needs have to give the shops the best possible tools, and ian by nature I decided to start a platform that row of shops can create a vicious circle and have a to be diferent to the next. Because we’ve allowed there is a consistency to what those should com- would make booking retail space as simple negative impact. It can have an impact on the resi- each shop to be diferent, collectively we’ve done prise. You need good lighting, decent floors, fur- as booking a hotel room. Back then it was dential market. It can create a feeling of anxiety and much, much better. niture that is solid and the right size. Whether it’s almost impossible for a brand to book a space stress when people walk down the street. grey or orange, I think, matters far less. Customers for a day. Now you can do so up to 18 months in Do you think people are coming back to phys- want a harmony within bookshops, which means advance without even meeting the landlord. What do you say to people who dislike pop- ical bookshops because they make them feel the textures and the fabrics you use have to be con- ups and prefer to build relationships with per- good about themselves? I think independents sistent with books. If someone starts using really Your business seems like a reaction to the manent shops? We’re not here to challenge the certainly do and a branch of a very good chain will bright lights and artificial materials it won’t work, crisis in bricks-and-mortar retail. What conventional shop. We’re democratising access to too. That’s partly because bookshops are about because the book is not that. went wrong? The truth is that bricks-and-mortar physical retail.

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