This is an interview with Henry Lynn for In the Age of Steel: Oral Histories from Bethlehem Pennsylvania. The interview was conducted by Roger D. Simon on July 14, 1975 in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

00:00:00 Simon: Henry Lynn at his home at Moravian House in Bethlehem, July 14, 1975. My name is Roger Simon. Mr. Lynn, tell me whereabouts that you were born and about when, if you will.

Lynn: I was born out at 409 Church Street across from the Nisky Hill Cemetery. I was born the ninth of September in 1887.

00:00:59 Simon: Have you always lived in Bethlehem?

Lynn: All my life.

Simon: What was that neighborhood on Church Street like when you were a youngster?

Lynn: Well, they were all homes, with the exception of a corner grocery store, but everything else was homes around the whole neighborhood.

Simon: What kind of families lived around there then?

Lynn: All people that worked at the Steel1, practically.

Simon: What did your father do?

Lynn: He worked at the Steel for—I don’t know how old he was when he left, but then he went into the meat business, had a meat market.

Simon: Where was his meat market?

Lynn: On 88 East Broad Street, one of the sections that’s torn down now.

Simon: 88 East Broad Street. Was he a butcher?

Lynn: Yeh.

1 Bethlehem Steel

Simon: Was he an immigrant or was he born—

Lynn: No, he was born here.

Simon: Do you know what your family background is, where your people come from?

Lynn: Well, I asked. My grandmother used to say we came from Germany, but I could understand that now. But Dr. Lussier2 (sp?), when we were first married, he asked me where the Lynns came from, and I told him I thought Germany. He said, ‘I’m going to look it up.’ And he said we were a cross between the French and Irish. He said the name wasn’t always spelled L-y-n-n. It used to be F-l-y-n-n. But then somebody dropped the ‘F’ and made it Lynn.

Simon: But your grandmother said it was German?

Lynn: Yes, she—I’ll tell you why. She had a cousin that committed a crime, and he belonged to an organization that would help him. So they brought him down to Germany and got him on a boat at 12 o’clock at night and got him out of there, and that’s why she thought they came from Germany.

Simon: You never identified yourself with the Pennsylvania Dutch3 then, though, particularly?

Lynn: No.

Simon: With that group.

Lynn: Although I never could talk a word of English when I went to school, or started school, I mean, but—

Simon: What did you speak?

Lynn: Pennsylvania Dutch.4

2 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 3 Emigrants and the descendants of emigrants from southwestern Germany and Switzerland who settled in Pennsylvania in the 17th and 18th centuries. 4 Pennsylvania Dutch (or Pennsylvania German) is a dialect of High German spoken by some emigrants and the descendants of emigrants from southwestern Germany and Switzerland who settled in Pennsylvania in the 17th and 18th centuries.

Simon: You did speak Pennsylvania Dutch.

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: That was your native language?

Lynn: That’s right. That was what we spoke.

5 00:02:30 Simon: What did your father do at the Steel, the iron company , I guess it was called then?

Lynn: At that time it was the iron company. I don’t know what he worked at, to be truthful. I don’t know.

Simon: You don’t remember that period when he was with the iron company? 00:00:59 Lynn: No, I was just a kid then, and I guess I was only about nine years old when he left and went into the meat business.

Simon: And he had a shop on Broad Street.

Lynn: On Broad Street, that’s right.

Simon: Did he have that for a long time then?

Lynn: Yes, we had it until the Depression of 1904, I guess it was, and then things got bad, and he said, ‘I better get out before we lose what we have,’ so then he quit.

Simon: Did he just retire then?

Lynn: No, we went in the flour and feed business then.

Simon: Flour?

Lynn: Flour and feed.

5 The Bethlehem Iron Co. assumed the name Bethlehem Steel Co. in 1899 and then Bethlehem Steel Corporation in 1904.

Simon: Did you go in business with him then?

Lynn: We were in business together until the Bender & Person firm went out of business, and then Nate Fritch6 and my dad bought them out, and then we were there until my dad wanted to retire, and then Nate Fritch and I had it until we had a fire, cleaned us out.

Simon: Where was this first flour and seed business?

Lynn: Back of—let’s see. What is it? It was in the back of the bank, corner of Adams and 3rd Street. We were back in McKinley (sp?) Street.

Simon: On the South Side.

Lynn: On the South Side. Dirks & Everetts7 (sp?) Hardware Store was in the front, and Pete Davis8 had a candy store, and then the Five-and-Ten, but then the bank took it over later.

Simon: What was the name of it? Lynn’s, is that what it was called?

Lynn: Yes, Lynn’s Feed Store.

00:04:16 Simon: What did you call it when you had it?

Lynn: We still left it at Lynn’s Feed Store.

Simon: Same location? 00:00:59 Lynn: Same location. Then when we burnt out there, I went in for myself up at Broad Avenue and 3rd Street, where the gas station is now, and, of course, Depression came along.

Simon: That was it.

6 F. Nathan Fritch was the son of Trion D. Fritch, owner of the milling operation T. D. Fritch & Sons. F. Nathan and his brothers ultimately bought out their father’s interest. Trion died in 1908. 7 Project staff were unable to identify this business. 8 Peter Davis was operating a candy store on the South Side of Bethlehem in 1911.

Lynn: Took all my shirt. (laughs)

00:04:39 Simon: Took your shirt. Let’s go back to your Church Street days. What kinds of things did you do as a boy? What did you have for recreation?

Lynn: Really didn’t do much of anything. All you could do was set in the house and help your mother or watch them out working in the garden. You didn’t own a baseball or anything like that, those days. 00:00:59 Simon: Sandlot baseball?

Lynn: No, no, we didn’t have anything like that.

Simon: Any parks? Did you go to the fairgrounds?

Lynn: Later on, we used to go to the fair, and then, of course, we didn’t live on Church Street then anymore. But you would go out to Central Park.

Simon: On the trolley?

Lynn: But, of course, in our days when I was a kid, we didn’t get there very often. We had a pretty good-sized family, and my dad couldn’t afford—

Simon: Fancy, fancy trips.

Lynn: That’s right.

00:05:40 Simon: Most of the people in your neighborhood worked at Steel?

Lynn: Most of them did, yes.

Simon: Then did you live over the meat store when you had that? 00:00:59

Lynn: Yes, we moved up to there when—well, first, when my dad started, we lived down on North Street, one of the buildings that’s been torn down now too. Then after he went into business, he worked for F_____ Winch that time, but then he moved up. When he started his own meat market, we moved up a little further, and then we moved into the same building.

Simon: So you lived over on Broad Street.

Lynn: Yes, that’s right.

Simon: What was Broad Street like in those days?

Lynn: Well, I know one time we used to have boys across the street we played with, the Kensmith9 (sp?) boys. Their father had a drugstore, and, of course, we’d run back and forth across the street. But one time we had such a heavy snow, and people shoveled it out, and the trolley company came and pushed it back. Then we dug tunnels through to get over from one side to the other. Those days, we had snow.

Simon: Yeh. A lot of people lived on Broad Street then.

Lynn: Oh, yes.

Simon: Over all the stores and everything.

Lynn: You know, sometimes I’d tell them when—around the corner was old D_____, corner of Broad and Main, had a cigar store there, and there was an ice cream factory, and old Jim Foltz10 (sp?) had a store up there where the drugstore is now, and when I tell him that we had a police booth out in the middle of Broad and Main and on a rainy day they had to throw planks across it so the cops could get out into the booth, they can’t understand that. But that was true.

Simon: It was all dirt.

Lynn: Oh, yes, muddy. Had an awful time.

Simon: What about sidewalks? Did they have any sidewalks?

9 Project staff were unable to identify this family. 10 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Lynn: Well, we had the sidewalks.

Simon: Wooden or concrete?

Lynn: Well, some concrete and some brick.

Simon: Brick. Not wooden, though?

Lynn: No, no wooden ones.

Simon: And the policeman was out there to direct the traffic?

Lynn: To direct traffic, yes. One of those doohickeys, only he turned it stop and go.

Simon: A little hand sign.

Lynn: Yes, a little hand sign, that’s right.

Simon: We’re talking about 1904, ’05 [1905], ’06 [1906], is that about the time?

Lynn: Yes, before that time.

Simon: Even before.

Lynn: Yes, before that.

00:07:57 Simon: Were there very many automobiles?

Lynn: No. I can remember the first one was old man Rau11, lived down on 1st Avenue. He was the first one I remember. Then Sheeney Lovett12 (sp?), if you know anything about the Lovetts.

00:00:59 Simon: No, I don’t.

11 The Rau family owned Simon Rau & Co., a drug store established in Bethlehem in 1752. 12 Project staff were unable to identify this family.

Lynn: Their son, they called him Sheeney Lovett, and he was one of the roughnecks of the town when it came to driving. So he was the second one I knew.

Simon: About what time period was this?

Lynn: Oh, I imagine that was about 1901, somewhere around.

Simon: Remember what kind of cars they were?

Lynn: No, I can’t tell you that.

Simon: Pretty fancy, anybody to have a car like—

Lynn: The one that Rob drove, I think it was a Ford. It had one of those levers—

Simon: Driving sticks.

Lynn: —in the front, yes.

Simon: Not a wheel.

Lynn: No, it didn’t have a wheel. But then when Lovett got his, his was a little car and a fancy car, and that, of course, had a wheel.

Simon: What kind of traffic was there on Broad and Main then? Carriages?

Lynn: No, you didn’t have much traffic, no. No, there wasn’t too much traffic around that time.

Simon: You didn’t have to worry as a youngster running back and forth across that street—

Lynn: Oh, no, no.

Simon: —you were going to get hit by anything?

Lynn: No, you didn’t have to worry about that.

Simon: And there were trolley tracks up the middle of the street.

Lynn: Trolleys, that’s right.

Simon: So that went right into Allentown, the trolley?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: Did you use that much? Was there much occasion—

Lynn: Well, I’ll tell you what we used to do as kids. We would go out to Central Park13, and they had these open trolleys, you know. So if the conductors would start taking the fares in the back, we got on the front, and when he got up there, we went to the back end. Then we didn’t have to pay any fares. (laughs) That was one of the usual tricks of the kids.

00:09:47 Simon: That was out in Rittersville Central Park.

Lynn: Yes, that was at Rittersville Central Park, yes.

Simon: What did they have out there, roller coaster and all that stuff? 00:00:59 Lynn: They had all those things. At that time, they had a menagerie there too. They had different kind of animals.

Simon: Like a little zoo?

Lynn: Yes, like a little zoo, it was. We enjoyed going out there. It was real nice out there.

Simon: That was a pretty lively spot then?

Lynn: Yeh, very lively.

Simon: Ice cream?

13 Central Park was a "trolley park" established in Rittersville, Pennsylvania in 1893 by the Allentown Bethlehem Rapid Transit Co. and included amusements, picnic grounds and a horse racing track. It closed in 1951.

Lynn: Yeh.

Simon: You remember the first movies in town?

Lynn: Yes. The first movie was right alongside the (inaudible) that was across from where the Boyd Theater14 is now. What the heck was his name now that had it? I can’t think of his name right now, but he’s an Italian man. He had the first movie, and they charged a nickel and a dime to get in.

Simon: Did you go often? Was that a lot of money?

Lynn: No, not too often. That was pretty much money in those days.

Simon: What else could you get for a nickel?

Lynn: Well, you could buy ice cream blocks for a penny, and most any kind of candy for a penny apiece, you know. But when I tell you that I got 25 cents a week when we got a little older for working for my dad, and I saved money out of that, so you can imagine you didn’t spend too much money.

00:11:16 Simon: Where did you go to school?

Lynn: Well, I started at Jefferson15 and I ended up in Franklin.16

Simon: Did you go to high school? 00:00:59 Lynn: Just the second year in high school. In those days, it wasn’t like today. We had a little difficulty in school and I was sent home. My dad said, ‘Do you want to go and see some of the directors and go back or do you want to work?’ I said, ‘No, I’ll work.’ And that was it, you know. So I learned the meat-cutting trade.

Simon: So about 15 or 16?

14 Opened in 1921 as the Kurtz Theatre, this theatre was purchased by A.R. Boyd Enterprises in 1934 and subsequently renamed the Boyd Theatre. 15 Thomas Jefferson Elementary school is located in Bethlehem, Pa. 16 A now defunct school in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania which started as a high school and became an elementary school.

Lynn: Yes, I guess I was about 18 when we opened the feed store then.

Simon: You started out learning the meat business first.

Lynn: Yes.

00:11:58 Simon: What else from your younger days? Do you remember electricity? Did your folks have electricity in the house?

Lynn: Yes, we did have electric. We didn’t anywhere till we moved up from Broad Street. There we had the electric bill.

Simon: Gas in the house? 00:00:59 Lynn: Yes. I don’t believe we had gas. Coal oil lights, we had.

Simon: What kind of lights?

Lynn: Coal oil.

Simon: Carried around on a lantern?

Lynn: That’s right.

Simon: And a wood oven in the kitchen?

Lynn: Yeh, a coal oven.

Simon: What about plumbing?

Lynn: Well, we had an outside toilet. When you wanted to take a bath, you had a tub in the kitchen. Then you heat the water on the stove. That’s the only convenience we had then.

Simon: A porcelain tub?

Lynn: No, we used a regular washtub.

Simon: Just used a washtub.

Lynn: That’s right.

Simon: Filled the water from the—

Lynn: Took it out when we were finished and brought it in when we were going to use it.

Simon: And I guess you took as few of those as you could get away with.

Lynn: Oh, yeh. Those days, you hated to get wet, you know.

Simon: Was the houses pretty cold in those days?

Lynn: Oh, no, you could keep it nice and warm. Coal stoves kept it good and warm.

Simon: There was no central heating then?

Lynn: No, no. You know, you bought coal for about three dollars and a half a ton then. It didn’t make any difference if you did burn a little more.

Simon: Coal was cheap enough.

Lynn: Oh, yes.

Simon: Do you remember the air as being especially bad in those days, air pollution from the steel mill?

Lynn: Well, I’ll tell you there’s one thing I often speak about. When we were kids, you’d get together nights and rake up the leaves and burn them. Oh, that was wonderful. That smell was great. Today it’s pollution, but (inaudible) in those days.

Simon: It was fun, huh?

Lynn: Yes, that’s right. We had fun.

Simon: What about from the steel mill? Did that seem like a big problem?

Lynn: No, that was never a problem to anybody, no.

Simon: A lot of smoke?

Lynn: No. Of course, it might have had something to do with, now, the fact that people live longer today than they used to. It may have been something. But it never bothered us.

Simon: People didn’t talk about it anyway.

Lynn: No, that’s right.

00:14:11 Simon: You had electricity in the store.

Lynn: Yes. When we moved up there to Broad Street, then we had electric.

Simon: What about telephone? Did you ever see that early? 00:00:59 Lynn: Yeh, we had telephone. But that was the first one we had of those, too, when we moved up there.

Simon: Did your dad have a car to get around, make deliveries and stuff?

Lynn: Yes. He bought a car. After things went pretty well for him, he bought a car, but I can’t remember the name of that anymore, either.

00:14:42 Simon: Did your family go out on weekend excursions?

Lynn: Yes, we’d go up and take little trips up through the Poconos17 there. I had an uncle, he worked for my dad and he had a Ford, and he used to go along. When you got to a pretty bad hill, he had to back up. The gas wouldn’t flow front fast enough, and he had to back up the hills. (laughs) 00:00:59 Simon: So he could get the gas.

17 A region in northeastern Pennsylvania popular with vacationers.

Lynn: So the gas would get into the carburetor.

Simon: Lot of punctures?

Lynn: Oh, yes, they were—

Simon: Just part of it, huh?

Lynn: Just part of it, that’s right.

Simon: What were the roads like out in the country? All dirt?

Lynn: All dirt roads, yeh.

Simon: So in April when it was muddy, nobody went out on—

Lynn: We didn’t go, no. That’s right.

00:15:23 Simon: What about spectator kind of sports? Did the local people go over to a football game at the college, or was that mainly just for the college people?

Lynn: Well, I don’t believe that many—not in our neighborhood they didn’t. Now, people probably who worked at the Steel that had pretty good jobs, you know, they would probably go there, but we kids couldn’t afford it. 00:00:59 Simon: What about—didn’t the Steel have a team that played out Steel Field?18

Lynn: Yes. Well, that was during the war then.

Simon: Not before?

Lynn: And they got some pretty good fellows, professionals, around. They had a good soccer and a good baseball team then. Of course, at that time, we went to see them.

18 Originally built by Bethlehem Steel to host its soccer club, it was first purchased by Lehigh University in 1925 and then sold to Moravian College in 1962.

Simon: You were a little older then.

Lynn: We were a little older then, yeh, and we went to see them.

Simon: But before the war, didn’t have time for much of that?

Lynn: Oh, no, no.

00:16:15 Simon: Was the Fourth of July pretty big?

Lynn: Very big, yes. You’d shoot all the firecrackers you wanted then. There was nothing to stop you. One of the things that used to be a little bad, and I guess they would probably punished them if they’d have caught them, but they put these big crackers on the trolley tracks, and, boy, when the trolley would go over, it would almost shake the trolley car. But I guess they’d have 00:00:59 stopped them if they would have caught them at it.

19 00:16:40 Simon: Did you go over to the South Side much before you opened the store there? Was there much intermingling?

Lynn: No, you never—I want to tell you, when you went over to 2nd and New Street, you were sure to get a licking before you came home.

00:00:59 Simon: What was at 2nd and New Street?

Lynn: Well, they had a rough gang there, and you had to be pretty well in with them if you didn’t get a good beating there.

Simon: Was that red-light district already there?

Lynn: Yeh.

Simon: So if you didn’t get a beating down there, you got it when you got home, huh?

Lynn: Well, it was your own fault if you went down there. (laughs)

Simon: So for a young fellow, that was considered a rough neighborhood to stay away from?

19 Area of Bethlehem located to the south of the Lehigh River. The side of Bethlehem where the Bethlehem Steel Mill was located.

Lynn: Oh, yes, that was a very rough neighborhood.

Simon: No place to socialize.

Lynn: Of course, you had no business—you could go across the Hill-to-Hill Bridge20, you know. It was the Covered Bridge21 then, and you didn’t have to go down around 2nd and New.

Simon: But if you went over the New Street Bridge22, you better be going about your business?

Lynn: Yes, you sort of kind of had a rough time, yes.

00:17:38 Simon: Did a lot of people look down on the new immigrants over there, the Hungarians and the Italians?

Lynn: I don’t believe they did, no. The first complaint you heard over there that I can remember was during the war when they got the Puerto Ricans up here, some people complained then.

00:00:59 Simon: The Second World War or the First?

Lynn: It must have been the First, I guess.

Simon: You mean the Mexicans?

Lynn: Yes, when they got those fellows up there, Mexicans. See, they put them into Northampton Heights, and that was one time one of the finest residential sections around here. Of course, when they got there, that spoiled the whole thing. But they had to live somewhere. They couldn’t afford the lumberyard.

Simon: So you didn’t spend much time over there on the South Side as a youngster?

Lynn: No.

20 Located in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, construction began in 1922 on this concrete arch bridge that passes PA 378 over the Lehigh River. 21 A wooden covered bridge. 22 Now the Philip J. Fahy Memorial Bridge, the bridge runs over the Lehigh River and connects the north and south sides of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Simon: It was a separate town, so—

Lynn: Separate town altogether.

Simon: —the schools had nothing to do with each other.

Lynn: No.

00:18:34 Simon: What was the politics like in Bethlehem? Was everybody pretty much a Republican in the North—

Lynn: It’s always been Democratic. No, it’s always been Democratic.

Simon: Democratic? 00:00:59 Lynn: Especially the South Side was very Democratic.

Simon: Was there a lot of Republican sympathy on the North Side?

Lynn: Well, I guess that was probably—

Simon: Was T.R. very popular?

Lynn: Sort of about a 50-50 proposition, I would say.

Simon: Was T.R. pretty popular in town, Theodore Roosevelt?

Lynn: Oh, he was very popular.

Simon: I understand he came here in 1912.

Lynn: He did. He spoke at the railroad station.

Simon: Do you remember that?

Lynn: I want to tell you, I remember when he was here, but I was working and couldn’t go down to see him. But we ought to have a couple more like he today, you’re darn right.

23 00:19:17 Simon: Was there a lot of excitement when Schwab first came to town and started to expand the steel mills?

Lynn: Oh, everybody was happy about it, you bet, yes.

Simon: Thought he was really going to put the place on the map. 00:00:59 24 Lynn: Yeh. I know the Chamber of Commerce used to have a meeting, and they had mentioned all these things. I know my dad came home and said that Charlie Schwab was going to spend so many million dollars here, and that was always considered quite a boon to the city. Of course, we were a borough then. We weren’t a city then.

00:19:48 Simon: So you went into the feed business with your father. About when did you open the South Side store?

Lynn: I should judge about 1920.

Simon: That’s when you first opened? 00:00:59 Lynn: Yes, and then 1929.

00:20:05 Simon: So what were you doing before the war?

Lynn: I worked for my dad, and when he went up, closed up, I went down to the Steel. I was going to go to business college. Bill 25 Shannon (sp?) was the foreman down there in the foundry, and I run around with his son. He said, ‘What do you want to go to business college for? I can give you a job down there, a number one job. You don’t have to go to business college.’ 00:00:59 So I went down and worked for him.

Simon: What’d you do?

23 Charles Schwab was the president of United States Steel Corporation before taking over Bethlehem Steel in 1904. His early 20th-century leadership of Bethlehem Steel Corporation helped make the company the second largest steel producer in the United States. 24 A network comprised of local businesses. 25 William J. Shannon was employed in the foundry at Bethlehem Steel in 1906.

Lynn: In the office, clerical work. And he was a wonderful boss, Bill Shannon.

Simon: So you worked in the clerical—

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: Do you remember the strike of 1910?

Lynn: Yes. I think we had one before that, I believe, in 19—no, 1910, I guess, was the one. Yeh, that’s right. Yes, I was working down there at the time, and we had to stay in. We couldn’t go home. They fed us in there. They didn’t want us to get in any trouble with that. I know that they went to New York and got about 12 roughnecks up there to help to break the strike. Then (inaudible) old Bob McLaughlin26 (sp?), I guess his name was, he was a foreman out there, and he said, ‘Where are you fellows going?’ ‘We’re going out on the town, see the town.’ He said, ‘You better stay in here. You’ll get your head knocked off.’ They said, ‘We’ll take care of ourselves. Don’t worry,’ and they went out, and they came back, too, again.

Simon: There wasn’t much sympathy for the union, I guess.

Lynn: Oh, no. I don’t know how you feel, but there’s not much today for it either. It was all right in the time of Roosevelt. He did some good for the working man, but when he came down to Johnson (sp?) (inaudible) to let them run away with the country, that’s bad.

Simon: So did you work for them during World War I, for the Steel?

Lynn: Yeh.

Simon: You were still with the company until 1920?

Lynn: Yes, that’s right.

00:22:09 Simon: Did the war create a lot of excitement and big surge of patriotic feeling?

Lynn: You’d have parades, you know, but nobody was too deeply interested. What they were all concerned about is how quick could they lick those guys. That was the main concern.

00:00:59 26 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Simon: Did you get involved in any clubs and associations in this period?

Lynn: Well, no, I didn’t. But I was one of the first to be called for the First World War. I went up there to be examined, and the doctor said, ‘What have you got there? What’s that mark?’ I said, ‘I have a hernia.’ He said, ‘You have a family too?’ I said, ‘Yes.’ He says, ‘Go out and tell them to send you home.’ That was the end of that. They didn’t take me then.

00:23:01 Simon: You were married by then?

Lynn: Yes, I was married, had one child, another one on the way, so he said, ‘We don’t want you.’ So I went home.

Simon: When did you get married? 00:00:59 Lynn: In 1912.

Simon: 1912. Here in Bethlehem?

Lynn: Yes. Up at Bath. I got married at Bath.

Simon: Is that where your wife is from?

Lynn: That’s where she came from.

Simon: How’d you meet her?

Lynn: Why, she had an uncle and aunt that were pretty well-to-do, and then they would come into the meat market, you know, buy things, and they always invited my parents to come out when they had a party. So one time they said I should come along out, so I met her there.

00:23:38 Simon: Were there are any other meat markets on Broad Street when your father was there?

27 Lynn: Yes, there was one up—not on Broad Street, but up around the corner was Baines (sp?) Meat Market , and down at the 28 corner of Broad and Main was Ulmer’s (sp?) Meat Market.

00:00:59 27 Project staff were unable to identify this business.

Simon: So there was a little competition?

Lynn: Oh, yes.

Simon: But you had some business from the more fashionable clientele?

Lynn: We had everybody on Market Street.

Simon: All the Market Street people.

Lynn: Yes. I could tell you that time who lived in every house along Market Street, but I couldn’t begin to tell you anymore.

Simon: Well, I live in what used to be Myers’29 house on 231 East Market.

Lynn: The one alongside of the Red Cross?

Simon: That’s right.

Lynn: The George Myers30 lived there, yes.

Simon: Yes. That was the fashionable crowd, I guess?

Lynn: Oh, yes.

Simon: All those people have servants and—

Lynn: Sure, along with horses and sleighs. A lot of Thanksgiving Day would snow, and you’d have sleighing all winter ‘til about the first of March, and you’d see races on Market Street every afternoon.

28 Project staff were unable to identify this business. 29 A prominent Bethlehem family. 30 George H. Myers, born in 1843, was a prominent Bethlehem businessman who was the head of George H. Myers Co., a coal company, and served as a director for many local firms.

Simon: Those people would send their servants in the store for—

Lynn: Oh, no, they came in, and we delivered there.

Simon: Then you’d delivered?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: Wasn’t too much intermingling with that then?

Lynn: No, no, no.

Simon: But you knew a lot of those people?

Lynn: I knew all them. That’s right.

Simon: Well , let’s see. Anything else about World War I? That must have created quite a change in town, a big boon in the Steel.

Lynn: Oh, it made quite a difference, that’s right. Yeh. Of course, the people didn’t look at it that time like now. I think if they’d have called for all volunteers, they’d had all volunteers, because there were enough people who were willing to sacrifice to keep their freedom.

00:25:45 Simon: Were you disappointed that you didn’t get taken for the draft?

Lynn: It didn’t make any difference to me. I sort of felt—I had a friend of mine who had the same condition as I did, and they took him and operated on him and fixed him up, and I thought it wasn’t quite fair. But then to choose between that and your family, you didn’t know whether you had any choice or not. So I was satisfied. 00:00:59 31 00:26:12 Simon: I was asking you about any clubs or associations. Were you in with the Masons or anything like that?

32 Lynn: Yes, I joined them. I belonged to the Red Men. At one time I belonged to the Red Men and I do still belong to the Odd 33 34 Fellows and there’s one club that used to meet alongside of the (inaudible) there on the second floor, the Owls Club. I belonged to them. There we had a lot of good times. 00:00:59 31 Freemasonry is a global men's fraternity dedicated to developing members' values based on teaching and serving the community.

Simon: Are these just mainly social clubs?

Lynn: That was only a social club, yes.

Simon: What were some of the other fellows? What did they do, that were in the—

Lynn: Well, one fellow I can remember was Bob Airey35 (sp?). He had a job down at the Steel, and he and Elmer Kornman36 (sp?) were together at building up that bowling alley up there on Broad Street. He and, I guess, another fellow (inaudible), he belonged to it. But I just can’t remember the other fellows. It’s pretty long ago. But I remember him because we had a celebration for him when he got married, and we had quite a time.

Simon: Were you active in the church groups at all?

Lynn: Oh, yes, I’ve always been very active in church.

Simon: Which church?

Lynn: Grace Lutheran. I went through, I guess, almost every office but minister, I held in the church.

Simon: They passed you over for that one, huh?

Lynn: Yes, they didn’t take me for that. I guess they were afraid I’d tell too many lies, maybe.

Simon: Was the Masons a pretty big group? A lot of people in the Masons?

Lynn: Well, you know, to be honest about it, I haven’t been going. For a couple years I haven’t been attending.

Simon: But I mean when you were young.

32 Founded in Fort Mifflin, Pennsylvania as the Society of Red Men in 1813, the Improved Order of Red Men is a patriotic and charitable organization operating in the United States. 33 Founded in 1819, the Independent Order of Odd Fellows is a fraternal organization dedicated to serving mankind. 34 The Order of Owls was a secret fraternal organization. Local groups were called nests. Nest No. 1215 operated in South Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 35 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 36 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Lynn: Oh, yes, at that time, we had quite a few people in. I was almost through the chairs when I had to quit on account of finances.

Simon: They didn’t have that lodge over there at that time, did they? Where did they meet?

Lynn: No, we met—where did we meet now? I believe we met up on Broad Street. No, we didn’t. You know, I can’t tell you where we met that time anymore. I don’t remember that. (recording paused)

00:28:44 Simon: Do you remember the consolidation movement pretty well?

Lynn: Yes, very well.

Simon: Was that greeted with a lot of enthusiasm? 00:00:59 Lynn: I think it was, especially on the North Side.

Simon: Why is that?

Lynn: Well, I think the South— they were always sort of jealous of each other, and I think the North Side had more of the rich people, and that probably might have made a difference, I don’t know. But I don’t think the South Side was as favorable toward as the North Side was.

Simon: The interesting thing is the South Side was larger than the North Side.

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: And it was more Democratic, whereas the North Side was a little more Republican then.

Lynn: No, the North Side was more Democratic, and the South Side—the North Side was more Republican. That’s right.

Simon: You might have thought they wouldn’t want to be overwhelmed by the—or didn’t people talk in those terms?

Lynn: It could have been a case where the money people had more influence too. That might have been it.

Simon: Did you sort of get the feeling as a young man in those days that what Schwab and Grace37 and the Lindermans38 and the Wilburs39 wanted is what got done in Bethlehem?

Lynn: Well, I guess probably that was the case, but that’s always the case of people, that they get done what they want. That’s usually what happens.

Simon: The way it works.

Lynn: Yes. And I think that’s right too.

Simon: Those families pretty well respected?

Lynn: Oh, yes, very much so. Yes, very much.

00:30:16 Simon: So how long did you work at Steel then, till 1920?

Lynn: Oh, I think I worked—about six years I worked down there.

Simon: Through World War I. 00:00:59 Lynn: Yeh.

Simon: Did you ever meet Schwab or Grace?

Lynn: No, I knew them from—

Simon: Just seeing them?

Lynn: We sold them meat, and they came (inaudible) every once in a while.

37 Eugene Grace served as the President and then Chairman of the Bethlehem Steel Corporation from 1913 to 1945 and served as Chairman of the Board from 1945 to 1957. 38 The Linderman family was a prominent Bethlehem family that made its fortune primarily in the coal and banking industries. 39 The Wilbur family was a prominent Bethlehem family that made its fortune primarily in the railroad, iron, and banking industries.

Simon: Oh, I see.

Lynn: But never down at the plant.

Simon: What were your hours of work down there, do you remember?

Lynn: I think from eight to five we worked. I think that’s what it was, eight to five, had half an hour for lunch.

Simon: That’s a long day.

Lynn: Oh, well, nobody thought—when I worked for my dad, we’d get up at six o’clock in the morning, we’d go out and load the teams. That time, you peddle meat, you know. Then you’d go and eat breakfast, then you’d go to school, so—

Simon: It wasn’t such a long day.

Lynn: No, no. You didn’t know anything about long days then.

Simon: You have to sit all day with a coat and tie on at the Steel?

Lynn: Oh, no, no, we didn’t have to—if we’d have been at a place where women came in, we probably would have done it.

Simon: Oh, I see. No women around.

Lynn: There’s always men down there.

Simon: No women secretaries?

Lynn: No, they never came down there.

Simon: Typists?

Lynn: No. See, we were down in the yard of the foundry.

Simon: Oh, you were in the mill?

Lynn: And that, of course, nobody came down to see us there.

Simon: So people dressed a little differently when there was a lady around.

Lynn: Oh, yes, always. (laughs)

00:31:49 Simon: What was courting practices like when you were dating your wife? Did you take her out on a date the way we think of that today?

Lynn: Well, I tell you. I had a little difficulty. I had to leave here in Bethlehem, say, five o’clock, get to Nazareth and wait a half an hour for the trolley to go over to Bath, and at ten o’clock, I had to leave to come home. 00:00:59 Simon: So it was a short evening.

Lynn: It was a short evening, yeh.

Simon: Did you just sit on the porch and talk?

Lynn: Yes, maybe walk up around the town and so on. There wasn’t much else to do. You had no movies or anything like that.

Simon: Buy an ice cream or—

Lynn: Yes, do that, get ice cream. I’ll tell you, you talk about ice cream, they usually made ice cream. In those days, you made ice cream. We’d go down—there’s a fellow had a dairy down below (inaudible) name of Best (?). You’d buy a quart of cream that was so thick you had to dish it out with a spoon, and, boy, you had ice cream when you got finished with that.

Simon: Was it improper to take a young lady for a beer or a—

Lynn: I never did that.

Simon: —or a drinking place?

Lynn: No, I never did that. In fact, I want to tell you it’s a long time that I’ve been in a barroom myself. No, I was never much for that. We’d have more or less parties at different houses, you know.

Simon: That’s how people entertained then.

Lynn: Yeh, that’s right, and I think we had just as good times as they have today, you know.

00:33:20 Simon: So in order to get to Bath, you had to take a trolley to Nazareth, and you had to take another trolley.

Lynn: Yes, wait until the other one came, and then go over there.

Simon: How much did it cost to get to Nazareth then? More than a nickel. 00:00:59 Lynn: Oh, I guess fifteen cents, I guess, we paid. I think something like that.

Simon: This is about 1907, ’08 [1908], you’re talking about now?

00:33:46 Lynn: Yes, that could be about that time because—

Simon: About twenty years old.

Lynn: —about 1912 I got married. 00:00:59 Simon: You got married in 1912.

Lynn: Yeh. So that could have been around ’08 [1908]. Because after we made up our minds, it didn’t take too long to get married. (laughs)

Simon: Where did you live after you got married?

Lynn: Over on 3rd Avenue.

Simon: On the West Side?

Lynn: Yes, let’s see. Yes, 3rd Avenue, 737, I guess it was. My father-in-law—no, we started at 807 N. New Street. That’s where we started, 807 N. New. That was a couple doors below Union. Then when my brother-in-law moved to Atlantic City, my father-in-law bought that house and took this one and gave us that one.

Simon: What did your father-in-law do?

Lynn: He had been a farmer and then later years he did a little carpentering work. Yeh, he was a farmer (inaudible) his life.

00:33:54 Simon: Did you walk over to Bethlehem to the foundry, to the steel mill?

Lynn: Yes, I always walked.

Simon: Didn’t bother with the trolley for that? 00:00:59 Lynn: No.

Simon: Was there a trolley that would take you there?

Lynn: I think there was, but I don’t think it took us very close to where we had to go. So when we got to the bridge, we’d take that first step that went down and walked along the railroad till we got down to our foundry office. No, I’ll tell you, as a kid you didn’t do much riding. We did a lot of walking.

00:35:28 Simon: One other thing I wanted to ask you about the meat business. What did you do for refrigeration? Did you have ice?

Lynn: You had the iceman fill it up for you every week.

Simon: That kept it going? 00:00:59 Lynn: That kept it all right.

Simon: What about in the store, same thing?

Lynn: Well, you never had any heat, and now in the summertime it was different. But in the wintertime, the windows were frozen up. You’d go to look out, it would be so darn cold you hardly could stand it. But you never had heat in the meat market.

Simon: So you just had natural refrigeration.

Lynn: Yes, just natural.

Simon: People didn’t freeze meat, I guess.

Lynn: No, not then.

Simon: They got it every couple of days?

Lynn: Yes. Then Sunday mornings you’d just be open for a while, those that couldn’t keep it, you know, be open about a hour and a half, two hours.

Simon: So you were open seven days a week? In other words, some people had no icebox at all.

Lynn: No icebox at all.

Simon: They bought meat every single day.

Lynn: That’s right.

Simon: Or as often as they—

Lynn: So they’d come in Sunday mornings, some of them.

Simon: (Inaudible) and all day Saturday?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: So it was a hard business.

Lynn: Saturdays we’d open about seven o’clock, six o’clock, and then you’d wait until—you always have certain customers that you could sell anything you wanted to get rid of.

Simon: Whatever was left over.

Lynn: They’d say, ‘Now, so-and-so isn’t up yet,’ but my dad would say, ‘Well, wait a little while.’ Eleven o’clock he’d come, and then you were open till eleven o’clock at night.

Simon: Seven in the morning till eleven at night.

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: Where’d the meat come from, local farmers?

Lynn: Arbogast & Bastian’s40 and Swift & Company41 had a place over here along the railroad.

Simon: Swift?

Lynn: Yes, Swift & Company. Then he’d buy from either one of the two.

00:37:02 Simon: Why did you leave the steel company?

Lynn: To go in the flour and feed business, and I made a big mistake there. I should never have done that.

Simon: Should have stayed where you were? 00:00:59 Lynn: Yes, because I had earned quite a reputation there.

Simon: You were still doing clerk work, paperwork?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: You think you would have advanced?

Lynn: Yes, I could have done it, and I could have easily studied, you know, if I’d made up my mind to stick to that.

Simon: So you went into flour and feed on the South Side.

Lynn: Yeh.

40 A slaughterhouse and meat packing plant located in Allentown, Pennsylvania. 41 Swift and Co. was a meatpacker based in Chicago that operated regional processing centers.

Simon: Why on the South Side?

Lynn: Well, we first started over on the North Side back of the American Hotel.42 Then when the Bender & Person’s (sp?) went out of business, then they bought that over there, and we went over there too.

Simon: Who were your customers? Was it farmers or was it city people?

Lynn: We had a lot of farmers, but everybody, all the stores on the South Side had horses, you know, and you had them all for customers.

Simon: I see. You’d sell seeds and—

Lynn: Seeds, yes.

Simon: Lot of people have gardens?

Lynn: Oh, yes, everybody had a garden in those days.

Simon: To save money?

Lynn: Sure, yeh. Well, not only that, but it was to save money. They’d raise the stuff so they didn’t have to buy it. That was the (inaudible)

Simon: Did it bother you being on the South Side in those days, I mean the neighborhood?

Lynn: Oh, no.

Simon: It was better then, after the war?

Lynn: Yes. I could always make friends anywhere, so it made no difference. I got along all right with everybody.

Simon: So you had the business there all during the 20’s [1920].

42 The American Hotel was located at Broad and New Sts., Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Lynn: Yes.

00:38:34 Simon: How was the town changed in the 20’s [1920]?

Lynn: You mean with the Depression?

Simon: Well, no, before the Depression. 00:00:59 Lynn: Before the Depression was all right, but with the Depression a lot of places went under.

Simon: Well, let’s talk about the 20’s [1920] for a minute.

Lynn: Before that?

Simon: A lot more cars then in the 20’s [1920], or was it still not that heavy?

Lynn: Well, there were still quite a few horses, but the cars were coming in. I think it was about ’27 [1927] when we felt that the horses were going and the cars were coming.

Simon: That your business didn’t have a future.

Lynn: No.

Simon: Was town a lot more prosperous in the 20’s [1920], you feel, than it had been, say, when you were a youngster?

Lynn: It had been very prosperous. After the war, things went very well.

00:39:30 Simon: You mentioned the Mexicans. Tell me about that when they came in.

Lynn: It was like today, if a colored person moved into your neighborhood, why, they’d find fault. And it was that complaint about these colored people coming into Northampton Heights.

00:00:59 Simon: They were Mexican, right?

Lynn: I thought they were Puerto Ricans. Of course, the Mexicans were dark, too, for that matter.

Simon: I don’t think they would have been Puerto Ricans.

Lynn: You don’t think so?

Simon: Not in the 1920s, because there was a group of Mexicans that came in the 20’s [1920].

Lynn: Well, then that could have been it.

Simon: Did the steel company bring them in?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: What for? Strike breakers or—

Lynn: No, they just had to have more help. See, there wasn’t enough help here, not enough people living in Bethlehem to supply all the labor they needed.

Simon: But a lot of people resented it?

Lynn: Yeh, especially the people in Northampton Heights. They sold their properties and moved out.

Simon: That had been a nice—

Lynn: Wonderful. Well, you know, they had a cinch down there. They didn’t have to pay any taxes. Bethlehem Steel Company paid enough to make up all the taxes for them.

Simon: Bethlehem Steel Company was in Northampton Heights?

Lynn: Yeh.

Simon: With the merger, was Northampton Heights abolished, or did that continue till later?

Lynn: No, I believe they went along with the city when they were—

Simon: When the city was merged.

Lynn: Changed to the city.

Simon: Consolidation. But the Bethlehem Steel didn’t care about the fact that people were resentful?

Lynn: Well, what could they do about it? They needed help and just got it where they could.

00:41:20 Simon: Were there many coloreds in Bethlehem when you were a youngster?

Lynn: Many what?

Simon: Black people, Negroes? 00:00:59 Lynn: Oh, yes, we had quite a few. Yeh. There was no antagonism like it is today. We had a fellow went to high school with us. We’d go to his house after school for some lunch, and other times come down to the other houses, and we never thought anything of this colored boy. We thought it was all right.

Simon: Any particular part of town that you saw a section, a Negro section?

Lynn: No, I don’t think there was any particular part of town. I think they were scattered all around.

Simon: Where did this friend of yours live?

Lynn: He lived on New Street, right around the corner from Broad where Hagen43 (sp?) has his lawyer office. I think that’s where he lived. People weren’t that way like they are today. Nobody found fault with somebody else. I couldn’t think that I’d agree to marry a colored girl or marry a colored boy, but to be together, we didn’t think of that.

Simon: Were there any on the South Side, any Negroes?

Lynn: Yes, there were some over there too.

Simon: They work at the Steel?

43 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Lynn: Yes, most everybody worked at the Steel those days, yes.

44 00:42:44 Simon: The local boys didn’t mix with the college boys then, too much, Lehigh boys here?

Lynn: Not much, no. Well, I guess they didn’t get out too much at night, and you didn’t go over there. About the only time we’d 45 46 see them was when they’d have a banquet at the Sun Inn , and then there’d always be a fight. The Lafayette group would come up here and start a rumpus, and I guess they went down and did the same with the Lafayette fellows. 00:00:59 00:43:10 Simon: The Sun Inn was still a rather fancy place?

Lynn: Very popular, yes. That was a very popular place at the time.

Simon: When did that close up, do you know? 00:00:59 Lynn: Well, let me see. It must have been about 20 years ago that that—

Simon: That’s all?

Lynn: —went under. Yeh.

Simon: Kind of gone downhill by then?

Lynn: Yes, that’s right. Yes, they didn’t keep it up to date, and the Hotel Bethlehem47 came along and built a nice place, so that was a little tough for them to get along.

Simon: To get along, yes. So on the whole, your recollections of the 20’s [1920] is that it was pretty prosperous and quiet?

Lynn: Yes, the 20’s [1920] was nothing (inaudible). Yes, that’s right.

44 A private university located in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 45 The Sun Inn, located on Main St., Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, was built in 1760. 46 A private, four-year college located in Easton, Pennsylvania 47 Built on the site of the former Eagle Hotel in 1921, the Hotel Bethlehem is located on Main Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

00:44:08 Simon: Do you remember the crash pretty well?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: What was your first reaction? Did you see trouble written all over it? 00:00:59 Lynn: The thing was, if you had loans from the bank, they, of course, started pushing for the money, and if you couldn’t do it, well, you just—

Simon: Did you have loans out from the bank?

Lynn: Oh, yes.

Simon: When did you lose your business?

Lynn: In ’30 [1930], ’29 [1929] or ’30[1930].

Simon: Right after the crash?

Lynn: Right after the crash, yes.

Simon: The bank foreclosed on it pretty much?

Lynn: Yes, that’s right.

Simon: Which bank was it?

Lynn: The Bethlehem National.48 They were at the corner of Adams and 3rd. So then I lost everything and I started all over.

Simon: Did you lose your house too?

Lynn: Yeh.

48 Bethlehem National Bank merged with First National Bank & Trust Co. in 1959.

Simon: Lot of people you know that happened to?

Lynn: Oh, yes, quite a few people.

Simon: So you had a few children by then, too, I guess.

Lynn: Had three of them by that time, yeh.

Simon: What did you do?

Lynn: Well, I had been home for a little while, and then Bob Pfeifle49, he was there and he was a good friend of mine. So the Pennsylvania Independent Oil Company50 was looking for a manager for the Union Street place, so they come down and said that Mr. Pfeifle recommended me, would I take the job? I says, ‘Gladly.’ Then I went there and worked there about 10 years for them.

Simon: So you worked most of the Depression?

Lynn: Yeh.

Simon: You count yourself pretty lucky?

Lynn: I was very lucky. In more than one way I was very lucky.

Simon: A lot of people never got jobs during the (inaudible) again.

Lynn: That’s right. And it wasn’t like today, where they liked to have a very good week’s wages for doing nothing. You didn’t have that chance those days.

Simon: What could you collect if you couldn’t feed your family?

Lynn: I don’t know. I don’t know.

49 Robert Pfeifle served as Mayor of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania from 1930 to 1950. He was elected on a ticket targeting crime. 50 Project staff were unable to identify this business.

Simon: You never—

Lynn: No, I never had that experience.

Simon: There must have been some sort of relief.

Lynn: There probably were some places that you could get it. Now, I know during the other Depression, when they closed up the gas station then, I got a job with— (recording paused)

Simon: Thirty-eight [1938]?

Lynn: Thirty-eight [1938], yeh.

Simon: You worked for the government taking a census.

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: What about some of the earlier Depressions? There was a bad one in 1921. Do you remember that, shortly after you got into the feed business?

Lynn: Well, that one we must have survived, because we kept going.

Simon: So a lot of people lost their businesses?

Lynn: Oh, yes.

Simon: Was there a lot of resentment against the banks? Did you feel they were too hasty to foreclose?

Lynn: No, I suppose they felt like I did. I had no chance to recover, so what was the use of making a fuss about it? If I’d have thought there was a chance to recover, I would have tried it, but the feed business was shut, and there no use to try to do anything about it.

Simon: Was there a lot of resentment against Hoover for not doing much?

Lynn: No, I don’t think there was. There was quite a bit of rejoicing when Roosevelt got in and froze the banks and started things going again. They were very happy about that.

Simon: Were there any apple sellers on the streets in Bethlehem and bread lines on the streets of Bethlehem?

Lynn: No, I don’t believe there were. If there were, I didn’t know anything about them.

Simon: But it was pretty hard?

Lynn: Yes, it was pretty rough all the way through.

Simon: Where did you live then after you left your house?

Lynn: Oh, that’s when we moved to 3rd Avenue then. Yes, that’s when we went over there.

00:48:43 Simon: So then this gas station went out during the ’38 [1938] recession?

Lynn: Yeh, yeh.

Simon: And you got a job taking the census. 00:00:59 Lynn: I got that. Then by then they came—oh, then they opened the bowling alley that they sent for me there. I worked there about two month, but it was always night work and I didn’t like that. So Weinmann51 (sp?) sent for me and said he needed a clerk. I went down there and I worked for him for 20 years.

Simon: In the hardware store?

Lynn: In the paint department.

Simon: Right down at Broad and—

Lynn: At Broad and Main, yes. So I’ve always been fortunate. I always had work to do. Of course, I made one big mistake there. When I was working for him, the Mohicans52 (sp?) were going up the alley, and Patterson53 found out that I was a meat

51 Project staff were unable to identify this business.

cutter. He says, ‘Come up there and start with me. You’ll $125 a week to start.’ But I was a coward. I had a family, and I wasn’t going to take a chance of not being able to make good, so I didn’t go. But I should have done that, should have stuck to that.

Simon: When was this, after the war?

Lynn: Yes, that was after the war.

00:50:00 Simon: How would you compare the impact of the Second World War with the First World War in Bethlehem? Could you see any 0 comparisons?

Lynn: Well, I would think that the people took it more generally the second. They went through one and they knew about what it was like. I don’t think the people was much concerned about the second as about the first.

00:00:59 Simon: They take it more seriously?

Lynn: Well, they just felt like, I guess, that things would come all right in time. They weren’t too concerned about it, I guess. I know I wasn’t concerned much about it. I missed it by two months, said I was too old to go.

Simon: Did your sons—do you have sons?

Lynn: No, I have three daughters.

Simon: Oh, you have three daughters?

Lynn: Three daughters, yes.

00:51:01 Simon: Are you pretty sad to see some of these old buildings coming down that you know so well?

Lynn: Yes, I think it’s really a shame. A fellow asked me yesterday what would I do if I was a judge. I’d say, ‘Well, go ahead and finish the mall, put new fronts on the buildings that are standing here, give the mall back to the Salvation Army, and give the

00:00:59 52 Project staff were unable to identify these individuals. 53 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

senior citizens the building where the Lehigh Stationery54 was.’ He said, ‘Well, you have a pretty good idea.’ I said, ‘Yes, that’s all I’ve got, an idea.’ (laughs)

Simon: No power?

Lynn: No power, no. Yes, I really feel that it’s a shame to tear down some of these good buildings.

Simon: Was downtown Bethlehem a much more thriving place in the 20’s [1920]?

00:51:50 Lynn: Oh, well, it wasn’t thriving like today. People buy on credit and carry on. You just bought what you could afford, and you had a steady stream.

55 Simon: When you were in the feed business, you didn’t have Master Charge , huh?

00:00:59 Lynn: No, oh, no, nothing like that.

Simon: People, if they could afford it, they bought it, and that was it.

Lynn: Well, you had some people you gave credit to, and some, of course, never came up to expectations.

00:52:19 Simon: Was the South Side business district nice in the 20’s [1920]?

Lynn: I think more so than the North Side.

Simon: More than the North Side? 00:00:59 Lynn: Yes, I think business was better on the South Side.

Simon: Because the South Side was bigger?

Lynn: Yeh. Well, they had more population, and I imagine steelworks over there had something to do with it. Yeh, I think the South Side was better.

54 Lehigh Stationary was located at 14 W. 4th St., Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 55 Master Charge, now MasterCard, was a bank-issued credit card.

Simon: But you never lived on the South Side even when you had the feed?

Lynn: No, no, I never lived over there.

Simon: Did you think about that, it being more convenient to move closer to the store?

Lynn: Well, no. I owned the home I lived in then, so I—

Simon: It wasn’t considered as nice a neighborhood to raise a family?

Lynn: No, that’s right. And, you know, you’re more or less content. If you had a place, you stayed there.

Simon: Yes, you don’t think about jumping around.

Lynn: Yes, it wasn’t like that at all.

00:53:11 Simon: Did you ever go to New York and Philadelphia for a big shopping trip?

Lynn: Well, never much to New York, but in the meat market we’d be finished about 10 o’clock with our work, then my Daddy’d say, ‘Come on, we’re going to Philly and see a ballgame,’ and he’d take me down to Philadelphia and see a ballgame. At 56 that time, the Athletics were the bigshots. 00:00:59 Simon: You took the train and you could walk from, I guess, the Reading [Railroad] at Lehigh Street.

Lynn: Yeh, it wasn’t far. It was 11:30, I guess, used to leave here. We’d get there—

Simon: This is Sunday you’re talking about?

Lynn: No, during the week. Anytime during the week.

Simon: Late night game.

56 The Philadelphia Athletics, now the Oakland Athletics, were a professional baseball team formed in 1901 as one of the American League’s eight charter franchises.

Lynn: When there’s a ballgame, we could go in the morning. They’d play all afternoon games. Around 10 o’clock in the morning, we’d be finished with the meat market, at 11:30, go down and see a ballgame.

Simon: That was all in the afternoon?

Lynn: Yes, that was (inaudible).

Simon: Ever see a World Series game?

Lynn: No, never saw one of those.

Simon: But you saw some championship Athletics teams?

Lynn: Yes, we had some very good ballplayers. Of course, I think they have just as good ones today, but there’s many more good ones than there used to be.

Simon: You remember Babe Ruth57?

Lynn: Yes, I saw him play one time.

Simon: I hope he hit a homerun for you.

Lynn: No, he didn’t.

Simon: No, not that time?

Lynn: No.

Simon: That’s too bad. So that was a pretty popular—this you’re talking about when you were younger then?

Lynn: Yes.

57 George Herman Ruth, Jr., known as "Babe", was a professional baseball player who played primarily for the New York Yankees and held the single season and lifetime records for most home runs hit.

Simon: A teenager, I guess.

Lynn: Yes, before I was married.

Simon: So you and your dad would hop on the Reading.

Lynn: Then get down and see a ballgame, yes.

Simon: What about shopping? Did you go to Philly to shop much?

Lynn; No, no. I don’t even go to Allentown to shop. If I want to buy something, I know where I can get it, I know what I want, I go and get it, that’s the end of it. I don’t do much walking around the store and looking.

Simon: Did many of your friends, did they go to Allentown to shop?

Lynn: Oh, there was quite a few of them that’d go to Allentown, but never many people went to Philadelphia that I knew of that went to do shopping there.

00:55:08 Simon: What about a vacation? Was that an unheard of kind of thing?

Lynn: Never had a vacation until I worked for the Independent Oil Company, then I—of course, I figured when I worked for my dad, if we went to Philadelphia every so often, and then I played football in high school, and he let me off then to do that, although I had to putz around for a whole week until they let me go. But I used to figure, well, that was vacation. 00:00:59 Simon: What about him? Did he ever close the shop and go away for a holiday?

Lynn: No, no. He’d shape it up so that we could handle it, and he’d go fishing down Delaware once in a while.

Simon: For a day?

Lynn: For a day, but that was all.

Simon: He and your mother didn’t go off?

Lynn: No, no.

Simon: People didn’t do stuff like that, huh?

Lynn: No. I don’t think my mother would have gone if he’d have wanted to go somewhere. (laughs)

Simon: Did he always speak Pennsylvania Dutch to you?

Lynn: Yeh, yeh, until, of course, after you went to school and he had the meat market, we talked English then.

Simon: Was he from Bethlehem? Did he grow up here?

Lynn: He was born up in Jacobsburg.

Simon: Jacobsburg. Is that in Northampton County?

Lynn: Northampton County. Then when he came to Bethlehem, he lived here all the rest of his time, and he got here pretty early.

Simon: Where did he get the money to go in business, or didn’t it take much money?

Lynn: I’ll tell you, my dad worked for a fellow by the name of Rich and he was going to play a rather mean trick on my dad, and he was pretty well liked by everybody. There’s a fellow name of Bill Rice58, he lived up on New Street where the building they tore down now, and he said to my dad, ‘Why don’t you go in business for yourself?’ He says, ‘Where would I get the money?’ He said, ‘I’ve got the money. You come up to my place, open up a meat market. When you can pay me, you pay me.’ And that’s the way he got started.

Simon: So he got credit from a friend is what it amounts to.

Lynn: Yeh, the man that owned the building gave him the credit.

Simon: Didn’t go through the bank or any of that stuff?

Lynn: No, no. Of course, in those days, you know, $1,000, you could do a heck of a lot with $1,000.

58 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Simon: That was probably more than a man made in a year, wasn’t it?

Lynn: Oh, yes, yes.

00:57:26 Simon: We mentioned the fairgrounds before. Where exactly were the fairgrounds?

Lynn: That was out there across from Liberty High School.59

Simon: Across the street? 00:00:59 Lynn: Across Linden Street. That whole section was fairgrounds.

Simon: What did they have? I know they had a race course out there.

Lynn: Yeh. Well, they had (inaudible).

Simon: Trotters, that was.

Lynn: Animals and poultry and stuff exhibition, and we had one of the best racetracks around here.

Simon: Was that just used at fair time or all year ‘round?

Lynn: No, just at fair time.

Simon: It wasn’t an all year-‘round event?

Lynn: No. And I think that’s one reason probably it went to nothing, just a case of (inaudible).

Simon: It wasn’t like Central Park where people were there all the time.

Lynn: No, no. If they’d have made a park out of it, it might have been all right.

59 A public high school located on Linden Street in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Simon: What was where Liberty High School is, just a farm?

Lynn: That was a farm, yeh. A fellow by the name of Levers60 (sp?) owned it, and that was a farm.

Simon: What about up on the Stefko Boulevard area, was that all farmland?

Lynn: That was all farmland. I don’t know who owns that anymore, but that was all farm.

Simon: So the town was pretty small when you were a boy?

Lynn: Oh, yeh, yeh. Well, I tell you, I thought I knew everybody, I guess about everybody in Bethlehem, so you can imagine it wasn’t very big.

Simon: You made these deliveries early in the morning, so you really got to the houses.

Lynn: Mornings we’d go out and take orders and then deliver them at nighttime. That’s the way we used to do that. Then, of course, if they had to have it earlier than evening, why, one of the other people would—

Simon: You had some other people in the store?

Lynn: Yes, we had another man there, and he would do it. Of course, those days when you had $1,000 left at the end of the year and you had taken care of your family, you thought you had a darn good year.

Simon: You did, didn’t you?

Lynn: Oh, yes, that was considered a very good year.

00:59:32 Simon: Did you get an automobile early on?

Lynn: No, never owned an automobile.

Simon: Never owned an automobile? 00:00:59

60 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Lynn: No. When I was kid, I spent my money on chickens and pigeons. I raised fancy chickens and pigeons.

Simon: That was your hobby?

Lynn: That was my hobby.

Simon: You didn’t have to worry about where you were going to get the feed, huh?

Lynn: No, that’s right.

Simon: You never bought a car?

Lynn: Never bought a car, no. I owned a truck when I had the feed store, two trucks, but I—

Simon: Did you drive them or you had—

Lynn: No, I drove them. Later on, I took a test and I had a driver’s license, but I had no car. The daughter had a car, the one that passed away now, and she used to save her gas for a whole month, you know, then we’d take a little ride on a Sunday, and you always had trouble. She said, ‘Rather than to have trouble and convince them that I saved my gas for four weeks, I’m going to get rid of it.’ So she did. She got rid of the car.

Simon: This was during the war, you mean?

Lynn: Yeh. But I never drove a car. I never had a chance afterwards. Then I thought, why keep up a license? I wouldn’t drive anyway without another test, so I dropped it. And now at my age, I wouldn’t drive a car anymore.

Simon: So you’ve gotten through most of the 20th century without spending much time behind a wheel.

Lynn: That’s right.

Simon: That a good thing or a bad thing?

Lynn: I think it’s a good thing.

Simon: I think you’re right.

Lynn: (inaudible) people at their expense. (laughs)

01:01:02 Simon: When did the trolleys go? Was that after the war that they took out the trolleys?

Lynn: Hmm. Well, I think it was when the cars came in. That was probably after the war. When the cars came, they took the trolleys out, yes.

00:00:59 Simon: People still used them pretty much in the Depression?

Lynn: Yeh, yeh. But this bringing the trolleys back is the best thing that’s happened in 20 years, I think. That’s really a wonderful thing.

01:01:38 Simon: Let’s go back to the Depression a little bit, because that really had a big impact on your life.

Lynn: Yeh. Well, it was a sad thing. You felt badly about it when you lost everything, but I had a good understanding wife (inaudible) as well. You just have to start all over, and so we did.

00:00:59 Simon: Did things get cheaper to buy in the 30’s [1930], prices went down?

Lynn: Well, when the Depression came, you could get it for almost any price you wanted. Yeh, that’s right. Of course, in the early years of my life when I was just a kid out on Church Street, I remember one Saturday before Easter, I went out to the store to buy something, and a fellow by the name of Reynolds61 had it. He said, ‘Tell your mother if she needs any more eggs, I want to get rid of them. Six cents a dozen.’

Simon: Six?

Lynn: Six cents a dozen. We went out and bought eggs at six cents a dozen.

Simon: So I asked you before what you could get for a nickel. Well, for six cents you could get a dozen eggs.

Lynn: Yes, that’s right.

01:02:45 61 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

00:00:59

Simon: How about a meal in a restaurant when you were, say, a teenager?

Lynn: Oh, gosh, you didn’t know much about that in those days.

Simon: People didn’t do that?

Lynn: No, no. Nobody much did that.

Simon: Were there any in town?

Lynn: Well, the first one I remembered was when my dad had the meat market on Broad Street, there was a fellow named Howard Brink62 (sp?) had what he called the Delmonico Restaurant.63 That’s really the first one—

Simon: Where was that?

Lynn: That was about three doors below where the meat market was.

Simon: On Broad.

Lynn: But there was a fellow by the name of Geist64 had a place down on Main Street across from the Hotel Bethlehem. I think he was the first one that I remember.

Simon: Those were fancy places, huh, for the—

Lynn: No, nothing fancy about them, no.

Simon: But you don’t remember your family going out to eat in a restaurant?

Lynn: You didn’t in those days, no.

Simon: How about a picnic?

62 Possibly Howard F. Brink (1872-1937). 63 Project staff were unable to identify this business. 64 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Lynn: Well, we’d go out to the parks with picnic or picnics, yeh, but not even out then when I was quite young. I don’t believe my parents ever took us on a picnic, not until I met my wife’s folks, and then we’d go to picnics. I think that was the way it was. I can’t remember ever going on a picnic with my folks.

Simon: Just wasn’t something people did?

Lynn: No, you just didn’t do it that time, no.

Simon: Do you remember hot dogs being around when you were a kid?

Lynn: Oh, yeh.

Simon: Were they pretty popular?

Lynn: Yes. That’s right. You know, in those days, women didn’t work, and the thing was that they cooked the meals, and that was the end of it. Today with women working five days or six days a week, they’re glad to get out on a Sunday or sometime and have a meal out somewhere they don’t have to cook or wash dishes.

Simon: Your wife never worked?

Lynn: No, my wife never worked. We had enough to do raising the three girls. (recording paused)

01:04:56 Lynn: —anything else. I had one personal experience one time, but I don’t know if that would be of any interest.

Simon: Tell me about it.

Lynn: Well, I used to raise pigeons and I showed at the downtown fair, and Dr. Ewald65 (sp?) from Danielsville, I think it was, 00:00:59 wrote me a letter. He wanted to buy certain pigeons I had there. And, you know, I couldn’t read one word of that letter. I asked 10, 15 different people. Finally, Mr. Jacoby66 (sp?) from the American Hotel was down. He said, ‘Take it over to Paul Kensmith67 (sp?), the druggist. He can read it.’ Boy, he read it as if every word was plain. He could read the whole letter.

65 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 66 Probably A.F. Jacoby, proprietor of the American Hotel. 67 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Simon: Only a pharmacist can read a doctor’s—

Lynn: Yeh.

Simon: You called them a chemist then, not a pharmacist? Is that what people called the—isn’t that what you said?

Lynn: No. Druggist we used to call them. So I sold the fellow $20 worth of pigeons.

Simon: Twenty dollars was a lot of money.

Lynn: You bet your boots, it was. I got $5 apiece for them, and that was something.

Simon: So the Allentown Fair68 was something else to do?

Lynn: Oh, yeh. Certain classes you could fill your class for about a dollar and get $3 out of it, so that was good profit. Not many classes you had competition then. Then we used to have poultry shows here in Bethlehem, Nazareth, Easton.

Simon: You showed your poultry around a lot?

Lynn: Showed them at these affairs, yes

Simon: Is that something many boys were into?

Lynn: Oh, yes, quite a few.

Simon: Raising pigeons?

Lynn: Yeh, quite a few of us raising them in the group.

01:06:48 Simon: Was there anything like the Boy Scouts around?

68 Refers to a fair put on by the Lehigh County Agricultural Society since 1852 in Allentown, Pennsylvania. 00:00:59

Lynn: No, there were no Boy Scouts. There was a baker on the South Side, Scott69, he was interested in boys. He had what he called Scott’s Cadets. I used to belong to that, and we’d go out for—now, like, for instance, we’d go down to Hellertown, walk down there and go through that Lost Cave70 down there and things of that sort, and get into the parades when they had a parade and so on. But never any Boy Scouts. Of course, I doubt if I’d have dared to belong to them. My dad, we had to work. We never had time for foolishness. (laughs) But I don’t mind it either. I think I made good use of my time.

01:07:54 Simon: Any other personal experiences like that, that you remember? That’s a good story. I liked that.

Lynn: Well, now, there’s one that came to my mind, you know, when they’d have the Bethlehem Fair71, they’d bring the things in on a train and then march them up Broad Street and out to the fairgrounds. I remember one, I guess it was on a Friday night before the far, we stood there watching the animals go by, when somebody announced that President McKinley had been 00:00:59 shot. That happened.

Simon: 1901.

Lynn: That was 1901, yes.

Simon: What was the reaction in the crowd?

Lynn: You didn’t hear much of any reaction, just the older people say, ‘Well, punish him.’

Simon: Grief.

Lynn: That’s the thing to do with him, punish him. Of course, we did punish them in those days.

Simon: People didn’t know much about Theodore Roosevelt, I guess, at that point. He was a vice president.

Lynn: Yes, he was vice—no, they didn’t know too much about him yet, no.

Simon: Do you remember the Spanish-American War?

69 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 70 Lost River Caverns was discovered in Hellertown, Pennsylvania during limestone quarrying operations in 1883. 71 Project staff were unable to locate any information on this event.

Lynn: Yes. Yes, that’s where old Teddy got his reputation.

Simon: Yeh.

Lynn: You know, we haven’t had too many good, sincere presidents.

01:09:18 Simon: How about Franklin Roosevelt? Was he very popular in Bethlehem?

Lynn: He was quite popular.

Simon: People thought the bank holiday was a good thing? 00:00:59 Lynn: Yeh, everybody that was when he did some good things, but then when he came to running for four terms, then people sort of resented that to a certain extent. Then when they were told that he had a mistress, that didn’t go over so big with people. People weren’t natured that way at that time yet. Today they’d cheer for him and say, ‘Hooray, he knows how to live,’ but they didn’t do it in those days.

Simon: Was Social Security pretty popular when it first introduced it?

Lynn: Oh, yes, yes, that was very popular, and more so today.

Simon: Certainly.

Lynn: Yes.

01:10:08 Simon: Now, what about his labor—now, that caused a lot of trouble in Bethlehem, his labor policies, the rise of the CIO.72

Lynn: Well, it might have caused a little trouble, but I think it was a good stunt when it started. It gave a laboring man a chance. But now today, they’re just running away with it and the unions ruined the whole thing.

00:00:59 Simon: Think they’re too powerful? The unions, you think they’re too powerful?

Lynn: Yes, I think so. Yeh, I do. I hope I’m not saying anything that you’re going to hold against me.

72 The Congress of Industrial Organizations was formed in 1938 with a focus on organizing industrial workers.

Simon: No, no.

Lynn: Because I’m just expressing my opinion. Yes, I really think they’re too powerful.

Simon: What about the strikes in ’39 [1939], I guess, and ’41 [1941]?

Lynn: There was nothing serious about them.

Simon: Created a lot of ruckus but—

01:11:02 Lynn: You know, sometimes I think the strikes are a little bit like when they had the first coal strike in Bethlehem. I guess that was about the first strike we had, was when John Bayer’s73 (sp?) coal mine went on a strike.

Simon: Yes, 1902 or ’03 [1903]?

00:00:59 Lynn: 1902, I guess it was, and Paul K_____ was quite a politician. Right below him where the Boyd Theater is now, lived Mr. Brunner74. He was the treasurer for the Old Bethlehem Iron Company. Old Paul was all excited about this strike in Reading, and Mr. Bruner come in, he says, ‘Paul, what’s the trouble?’ Then he said, ‘Oh, that could cause a lot of trouble, that strike up there.’ ‘Now, Paul,’ he said, ‘don’t get excited. Old Bayer just went down to New York and hired about 12 fellows to come up and work in the mine to make them believe that we’re dissatisfied and get them on the strike, and for every 50 cents Bayer gives, he’s going to get a dollar.’ I doubt whether that isn’t probably a lot of it today.

Simon: That strike went on a long time. Did the steel company come to a halt then? That was about three months, I think. Theodore Roosevelt put a stop to that strike.

Lynn: I don’t believe that it affected the steel company too much.

Simon: They kept going?

Lynn: I think they kept going, yeh.

73 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 74 Christian Otto Brunner was the first employee of the Bethlehem Iron Company, which later became Bethlehem Steel Corporation. He became treasurer in 1870 and served until his retirement in 1911.

Simon: People run out of coal, though, for the winter?

Lynn: Well, they probably had plenty of coal on hand that they could supply the people for. It wasn’t like today, that they lived from hand to mouth. The coal yards were stocked up on everything. Everybody, you got your coal in early in the summer or late in the summer, and you were pretty well fixed.

Simon: People filled their basements?

Lynn: Yes, you filled up for it, yes. Of course, you could, but today at $20 a bin you couldn’t fill it. (laughs) You know, between you and I, I think the president could do a whole lot if he were big enough to do it. If he declared from tomorrow morning on everybody was going to take a 10 percent cut all the way from the top on down, he could remedy a lot. But one man’s too easy to shoot. The Congress ought to do it, so they can’t shoot them all. Of course, now, it’s only my opinion. Might not make any difference. But I think it could be remedied if he did that.

Simon: Looking back from the perspective of the present, do you think, on the whole, we live in much better times than when you were younger?

Lynn: Well, we had very good times when I was younger. We had different lives. But I don’t think the people today are any happier than we were. I don’t think it. There’s more worry, I think, than we had.

Simon: More worry?

01:13:50 Lynn: Yes. Yes, I think so. And we sure had more law and order.

Simon: You didn’t worry about walking in the streets?

Lynn: Oh, no, no, you didn’t have to worry about that. 00:00:59 Simon: Well, you told me about those roughnecks on 2nd Street.

Lynn: Well, they might have (inaudible). They just stayed on that corner and protected their own corner, yeh.

Simon: Well, if you had business on the South Side elsewhere, you didn’t worry about them?

Lynn: No. You went the other way and didn’t go around there. I knew a fellow one time went over, fellow by name of Charlie Moffett75 (sp?). He was only a little fellow, but he was a pretty good boxer. He followed that. He went over there one time and they grabbed him, started something. He said, ‘I didn’t do nothing to you.’ He got up and got around the other side and he left one have it in the jaw, and he ran like the dickens. He got on the bridge and he says, ‘Uh-huh, you will pick on me.’ (laughs)

Simon: So they met their match sometime?

Lynn: Yes. He got away from them. (recording paused)

Lynn: —his brother Rod and I, one Saturday night it had been snowing. We came across the covered bridge, and there was a fellow walking on the inside with the—you know, not the path, the other side. He said, ‘That guy’s going to come out. Get ready for him.’ So we got up to the first opening, and the guy came out and he said, ‘You got a match?’ He said, ‘I’m your match,’ and he left him have one in the jaw.

01:15:14 Simon: And that was that, huh? Where was this roller rink you’re talking about?

Lynn: Over the—Coliseum76, up there where there’s an A&P77 store up there.

Simon: Food Fair78 on Broadway? 00:00:59 Lynn: On Broadway.

Simon: Yes. That’s roller-skating?

Lynn: That was the roller-skating rink, and that was a good amusement place. You had lots of good times there. They had a good class of people there. The roughnecks didn’t get there. Old Jim Elliott79 (sp?) ran that, and he ran it according to Hoyle.

Simon: But that was a place, I guess, a lot of North and South Side youngsters mixed?

75 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 76 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 77 The Atlantic and Pacific (A&P) grocery was established in 1859. In 1869 the stores were renamed to the Great Atlantic & Pacific Tea Company in honor of the first transcontinental railroad and hopes of expanding across the continent. 78 Food Fair was a supermarket chain founded in the 1920's in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania that was later known as Pantry Pride. 79 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

Lynn: Yes, a lot of kids get together there, oh, yes.

Simon: But no real tension then?

Lynn: No, no. You know, I looked over the place here. I have a book that I got from a fellow, he taught at Liberty High School, and he had a lot of notes in there of Bethlehem, and I don’t know where it is. Since I moved, I can’t find it. If I do run across it, I’m going to give it to you.

Simon: Good. I’d like to see that.

Lynn: Because you’d probably be interested in that, but I have to go through the—I went through roughly, but I couldn’t find it. A 80 01:16:38 fellow named Cressman (sp?) taught at Liberty, and he wrote it. But there’s one thing I never could find out. They used to 81 82 run a ferry. Mack , Mr. Mack (sp?) used to run a ferry from the front of Main Street over to Calypso Island , and nobody knows the name of that ferry. I even asked his wife. She said, ‘No, George never said a word about the name, and I don’t know.’ But it had a name.

00:00:59 Simon: The name of the ferry on the island? The island’s just completely gone?

Lynn: Yes, the railroad company dug it away to—

Simon: What for?

Lynn: To make the road bed, a railroad bed over it.

Simon: But that was right in the middle of the river here?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: When you were a youngster, was it still fashionable for people to come up to Bethlehem as a resort place? I know (inaudible) was telling me that in the 80’s [1880] the Sun Inn was a fashionable resort and he—

80 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 81 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 82 Located on the Lehigh River this island was purchased by the Lehigh Valley Railroad in 1902 and removed.

Lynn: Yes, it was. That’s right, it was.

Simon: Was that still true in the early 1900s?

Lynn: I would probably say it was, although we never—we kids never found out much about that. But I would imagine, because we had a lot of visitors at the Sun Inn from time to time. (pause) I hope they get away with that, the restoring of the Sun Inn. (pause) Was Henri [Bodder]83 born and raised here in Bethlehem? (recording paused)

01:18:19 Simon: Did you know Pfeifle?

Lynn: Very well.

Simon: When did he first become mayor, do you know? 00:00:59 Lynn: When did the city become a city, do you remember?

Simon: Seventeen [1917]. And Arch Johnston84 was the first mayor.

Lynn: It was about ’21 [1921], I would say, he got in there.

Simon: How long was he mayor?

Lynn: Twelve years, I believe, he was the mayor.

Simon: The 20’s [1920] and early 30’s [1930]?

Lynn: Yeh, I think he was in about 12 years.

Simon: Then what did he do after that? Because he was still prominent, wasn’t he?

83 Henri Bodder was a local Bethlehem retailer, resident of the West Side Republican Club, president of the Advertising Club and a commissioner on the Bethlehem Housing Authority from 1945-1971. 84 Johnston served as assistant general superintendent, president, and vice president of Bethlehem Steel. After the Bethlehems were consolidated, he was elected the City of Bethlehem’s first mayor in 1918.

Lynn: Well, I think he retired from that, after that. He had been a contractor, you know, before.

Simon: Oh, I see.

Lynn: Yeh. He’s the one that helped me get into business over on the South Side, and then I think he retired after he got out of mayor.

Simon: Because he was on the Housing board with Bodder for a while.

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: He was a Democrat, wasn’t he?

Lynn: He was a Democrat, yes. But Bob was a very fair man. He always gave you a square deal.

Simon: He didn’t look at your party before he—

Lynn: I don’t today.

Simon: No, I say he didn’t.

Lynn: Oh, he didn’t? Oh, no, no. In fact, today I can tell you if our governor was running for the Democratic ticket, I surely wouldn’t vote for him. (laughs) Yeh, Bob was quite a character in his time. He was a very active man. In order to be in office, Bob was in well with all those people like the Wilburs and those, and you have to be in with the rich people if you want to get somewhere. They’ve got to help you.

Simon: But didn’t feel he was looking down on the working people?

Lynn: Nobody, no. Bob was the same to everybody. I know one time I was going to build a little extension table for my girls over half the size of a regular one, you know, and he asked what I was doing. I said, ‘I’m going to install this (inaudible) here.’ He says, ‘Give me that. You can’t saw that.’ He had a carpenter shop down there. He went down and sawed it out for me. And he did a good job. Today that’s worth money. Bob was quite a man.

01:21:07 Simon: You still think Bethlehem’s a nice place to be?

00:00:59

Lynn: I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. I had a neighbor on 3rd Avenue, he was in the Army, and he said, ‘I got around pretty much the whole world, but Bethlehem is still the place for me.’ So I guess other people feel the same way. I was down to Florida one time with my daughter and son-in-law. Of course, (inaudible) my wife had passed away already. But I wouldn’t live down there for anything. I wouldn’t like it. (recording paused)

Simon: Is that what people did when you were bored, came nine, ten o’clock, they went to bed?

Lynn: That was the time you went to bed, yeh. There was nothing else to do. You had no television, nothing, so you just went to bed. That was it. But then you were up early in the morning. Of course, now I get up at six in the morning, so I like to go to bed at ten.

Simon: So you haven’t changed, huh?

Lynn: No, no.

Simon: That’s an old schedule, ten to six.

Lynn: Yes. And it must be pretty good, because I can truthfully say I feel mighty good for the age I am.

Simon: Great.

Lynn: Yes, sir. Dr. Rosen85 (sp?) out at Muhlenberg86 came over to me one time, that was a couple years ago, he said, ‘This area here is about your age.’ I said, ‘No, it isn’t.’ He said, ‘How old are you?’ I guess I was 85 then. He said, ‘How in the hell do you do it?’ I said, ‘Doctor, you don’t do it. You help. But the lord does it for you.’ He said (inaudible). (paused)

01:22:43 Simon: Where were some of the old stores?

Lynn: Well, at the corner where Orr’s87 are now there was Luckenbach stove store88. Then across the street there was the Salvation Army. Going down Main Street there was a Salvation Army. Not a building like they have today.

00:00:59 85 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 86 Muhlenberg College is a private liberal arts college located in Allentown, Pennsylvania 87 The Orr’s chain of department stores was based in Easton, Pennsylvania. The Bethlehem location closed in 1993. 88 Project staff were unable to identify this location.

Simon: You’re going down toward the river?

Lynn: No, going down toward this place. The old paper box factory was down to where the (inaudible) place is now. Across where the parks used to be on the other side, going up the other way, was Riggin & Cartwright’s89 (sp?) store. Across from there was Lerch & Rice.90

Simon: They were both department stores?

Lynn: Both department stores. I guess Lerch & Rice was taken over by Bush & Bull.91 I’m not too sure about that.

Simon: Bush & Bulls was not on the corner where Orr’s is?

Lynn: I don’t believe they were there always, no.

Simon: Luckenbach was there first?

Lynn: Yes, Luckenbach was there first. I know the time when they built the Hill-to-Hill Bridge, or the Broad Street Bridge92, they wanted to buy that property. First, he didn’t use all of it, but they wanted to buy the one section there, which is part of Orr’s now. The city wanted to buy it to widen Broad Street on both sides the same. (inaudible) says, ‘My, God, they’ll never need a bridge like that.’ Today we’d have been glad if they’d bought it for $2,500.

Simon: They bought across to the West Side on Broad Street.

Lynn: Yes. They should have done that at that time. The Broad Street Bridge isn’t too wide for the traffic we have now. My God, $2,500. Of course, that was a lot of money in those days.

Simon: Well, this is a city we’re talking about now, not a private party.

Lynn: No.

89 Project staff were unable to identify this location. 90 Lerch & Rice was a Bethlehem department store that dated back to 1821. 91 Headquartered in Easton, Pennsylvania, the Bush and Bull department store chain had a location on Main Street in Bethlehem. It was sold to Orr’s in 1955. 92 Built in 1909, the Broad Street Bridge connects the north and south sides of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Simon: What about the Woolworth’s?93 When did that come in?

Lynn: That I can’t answer. I don’t know. That you should have asked Bill Riley94 (sp?). He could have told you that. He knows every store in Bethlehem that came and when it came.

Simon: Do you remember that as always being there then, that Five-and-Ten?95

01:25:00 Lynn: Yes, as far as I know, they were always there. Did Bill tell you about the fire in the livery stable?

Simon: No, I didn’t get to ask about it.

Lynn: That was Barber’s Livery Stable.96 He was back in—well, from Main Street and Broad Street back, in that section, well, I 00:00:59 guess where the Giant Market97 was, somewhere in there. They had a terrific fire there one time.

Simon: Behind the Sun Inn?

Lynn: Yes, it was behind the—a little further down than the Sun Inn, though. Yeh, a big fire there. A lot of horses burnt. A man was burnt there. I thought maybe Bill, because he used to work for him, I thought probably he had told you.

Simon: No, he didn’t. I think he’s getting a little forgetful.

Lynn: Well, I guess at 104 I can’t blame him. That’s right.

01:25:57 Simon: But he told me about his canal stories. He didn’t have any trouble remembering his canal days.

Lynn: Oh, no. That was his life, the canal.

Simon: He seemed to enjoy that much more. 00:00:59

93 F.W. Woolworth Co., a chain of discount stores founded in Lancaster, Pennsylvania in 1879, was once the world’s largest department store chain. 94 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 95 A retail store format that originally offered all items for either five or ten cents. Later expanding to other prices and then referred to as a variety store. 96 Project staff were unable to identify this business. 97 Project staff were unable to identify this business.

Lynn: Oh, yes.

Simon: Canal was still going when you were a boy?

Lynn: Oh, yes. We used to run barge parties down there. There’s a party in Freemansburg had a barge. Then we’d have Sunday School picnics down at Island Park.98 They’d run the barge party down there.

Simon: Where’s Island Park?

Lynn: Down in Easton.

Simon: Oh, in Easton?

Lynn: Down in Easton, yeh.

Simon: The island in Bethlehem was Calypso.

01:26:41 Lynn: That was Calypso, but that was going then. And I can remember the first play I saw in the theater. 02 Simon: A live play?

Lynn: Uncle Tom’s Cabin99 was the first one I saw.

00:00:59 Simon: Where was that?

Lynn: That was over in the Grand Opera House100 here on Wyandotte Street right at 4th [Street].

Simon: The Globe Theater?101

98 Island Park was an amusement park established in 1894 on an island in the Lehigh River near Easton, Pennsylvania. Frequent ice flows, as well as severe flooding in 1919, made it uneconomical to continue to operate and the park was closed. 99 Uncle Tom's Cabin is an anti-slavery novel written by Harriet Beecher Stowe. It was published in 1852. 100 Wilbur's Theater, also known as the Fountain Hill Opera House was opened in 1888. A short time later, it was renamed the Grand Opera House and survived another half century as the Globe Theater. It was located at 405 Wyandotte St, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 101 Wilbur's Theater, also known as the Fountain Hill Opera House was opened in 1888. A short time later, it was renamed the Grand Opera House and survived another half century as the Globe Theater. It was located at 405 Wyandotte St, Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Lynn: Yes, the Globe Theater.

Simon: That was called the Grand Opera?

Lynn: That was the Grand Opera House.

Simon: When was that, about?

Lynn: Oh, I imagine about 1904, around in that time. We had a flood, and we went down at noontime to see if we could cross the bridge. Then the fellow said, ‘Yes, it’ll be down by tonight. You can see the opera.’ So at nighttime we went over and saw the opera.

Simon: Was there a lot of live shows in town?

Lynn: Yes, we used to have quite a few.

Simon: Where were they?

Lynn: In that same theater.

Simon: What about on the North Side, was there much?

Lynn: No, not on the North Side.

Simon: Just movie houses.

Lynn: Not till the movie houses came, which was quite a few years later. Why, we had live shows now and then.

Simon: Was this vaudeville, mainly?

Lynn: Yeh. This was over there, the shows. Over here on the North Side, they had vaudeville.

Simon: That pretty popular?

Lynn: Yes.

Simon: You could take your wife to the vaudeville?

Lynn: Yes, we’d go to see that.

Simon: Did big-name entertainment come here very much, big stars?

Lynn: Absolutely, yes. I can’t remember who they were now, but I know there’s some big stars.

Simon: Al Jolson102 and people like that?

Lynn: Never saw him. I can’t think of the fellow’s name that was quite popular. My memory (inaudible).

Simon: Eddie Cantor?103

Lynn: No, Cantor, I never saw him.

Simon: Harry Honor104 (sp?)?

Lynn: No.

Simon: Remember that name?

Lynn: I remember the name, but I never saw him. So I think this fellow was probably a little bit later.

01:28:47 Simon: Any stories you remember connected with going to those baseball games in Philadelphia?

Lynn: No, I don’t remember any stories connected with those. I know a story. One time I took my grandson down, my great- grandson down. No, my grandson. We stopped. It was a doubleheader, and we had to come down to, oh, it was about a

00:00:59 102 Al Jolson (1886-1950) was a popular American singer, comedian and actor. In the 1930's he was the highest paid entertainer in the United States. 103 Eddie Cantor (1892-1964) was a popular American singer, comedian, dancer, singer, actor, and songwriter. Beyond performing, he was well known for his political and charitable efforts. 104 Project staff were unable to identify this individual.

five-minute walk down to where the buses would go. The first game lasted quite a long time, and I says, ‘Jimmy, we can watch part of the second game, but we have to get down there.’ Fellow in back of me said, ‘Where do come from?’ I said, ‘Bethlehem.’ He said, ‘I thought I knew you.’ He said, ‘I come from Bethlehem. If you want to wait, I’ll see that you get home.’ It was Johnny Bessler105 (sp?) from one of the high schools. So he brought us home. We saw the whole game then. (laughs)

Simon: Great. Was football or basketball in the area as popular as baseball?

Lynn: Basketball wasn’t as popular. Football was.

01:29:52 Simon: You played football at Franklin?

Lynn: Liberty High.

Simon: Franklin it was. 00:00:59 Lynn: Franklin, that’s right. Franklin, sure. Liberty wasn’t that time.

Simon: You had much for a uniform?

Lynn: No, you had to furnish your own uniform. And if nobody had a football, you didn’t play football. (laughs)

Simon: Did you play the other schools around, or was it just Little League?

Lynn: Yes, we played Moravian106 and the South Side junior high school107 and different ones like that. Easton High108, of course, nobody could beat them. They had a bunch of big guys.

Simon: Why was that? Why were they so much better?

Lynn: I don’t think they abided by rules and regulations.

105 Project staff were unable to identify this individual. 106 A private four-year college founded by the Moravian Church located in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania. 107 Easton Area High school participates in one of the longest lasting football rivalries in the United States. They play Phillipsburg (N.J.) High on Thanksgiving day and have played each other since 1905. 108 Possibly referring to Broughal Middle School which is located on the South Side of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

Simon: Oh, I see.

Lynn: But I want to tell you an experience we had one time. We were supposed to play on a Saturday, and it rained from a Thursday on, so they decided to cancel the game. Then the fellows from Allentown High School109 came down and said, ‘Could we play Wednesday afternoon?’ They needed the practice for playing Easton the following Saturday. So the principal left us go, and we played up in the cornfield. Every time you tackled somebody, you’d run a cornstalk up your nose. So they beat us. They gave us a very good licking. The following year after that, a fellow named Oaks (sp?) that was fullback and W_____, another quarterback that graduated from Muhlenberg College. (laughs) They didn’t obey rules and regulations in those days.

Simon: So if they could pick up a few college boys—

Lynn: Yes, yes.

Simon: What was Moravian College? Was that a pretty small sleepy little place?

Lynn: That was small at that time.

01:31:21 Simon: Lehigh was the big place.

Lynn: Yes, Lehigh was a big college.

Simon: But it stuck to itself pretty much? 00:00:59 Lynn: Yeh. Of course, now they’re both pretty big. Talking about games, I’ve always been pretty lucky. They played basketball one Saturday night over there. They played the Carolina Indians.110 And, oh, everybody wanted to see that. So we went over there, and, oh, there’s a mob there, and they’d only pick out certain ones that he’d let come in. He said, ‘Come on. You, you can come in.’ I know the man later. I knew him, but I can’t think of his name now. He was quite prominent in Lehigh in those days, and why he picked me out and let me come in, I don’t know, but I saw the game. (laughs)

(end of recording)

109 Allentown High School was established in Allentown, Pennsylvania in 1858. It is now known as William Allen High School. 110 Project staff were unable to identify this team.