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The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project AMBASSADOR JOHN W. TUTHILL Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy Initial interview date: 1987 Copyright 1998 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background Harvard and early career Foreign Service intervie s Assignments in Europe during WWII Potsdam conference Working for Mutual Security/Marshall Plan Minister of Economic Affairs, Paris 1956-1959 ,egotiating OECD Eisenho er administration and European unity OEEC c. OECD Ambassador to OECD 1960-1961 Secretary of state Dean 2usk3s area of e4pertise Political avering on commitment to Berlin Duties of ambassador to OECD Chicken ars Issues as ambassador to European community 2eason for appointment Comparing Paris and Brussels posts American staff in OECD and European involvement in 5ietnam President 6ohnson and administration3s policies Ambassador to Bra7il 1966-1969 Embassy staff President Castillo Bronco 2elations ith ne spaper editor, Carlos 8acerda 2ole of 9S embassy in Bra7il Operation Topsy: budget cuts Military attach; 5ernon Walters 9S effect on Bra7il3s government 9S attitude to ards Bra7il Bra7il3s support of ne nations 1 Killing of American officer in Sao Paulo Terrorism and hostages in Bra7il 2ole of CIA in Bra7il Conclusion Good and bad aspects of career Foreign Service as a career INTERVIEW : Mr. Ambassador, what brought you into the Foreign Service' T9THI88: I as at the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences at Harvard, obtaining a graduate degree and teaching at Northeastern 9niversity in Boston. It as 1939, and I sa a notice on the bulletin board about the Foreign Service e4am. It as evident ar as coming, and the only question as hat one might do to be useful. I looked over the requirements for the e4am, and I found that a good many of the subjects I as teaching or kne something about, so I decided to take it. I took it in September 1939, just as German troops rolled into Poland. : (as there an effort to boost up the numbers of Foreign Service at that time, or was it pretty much business as usual' T9THI88: I think it as business as usual. After I passed the e4am, I talked ith various friends at the Harvard faculty about hether I should go into the Foreign Service, and they urged me to do so because I as doing my graduate ork and I as teaching in economics, and they said the State Department as so eak in economics that it as pitiful. But no, I don't think there as any conscious program for e4panding the Service at all. I think it as business as usual. : Did you go in with economics as the area that you planned to concentrate in' T9THI88: Well, not particularly. I had, obviously, more training in the field of economics than any other area, and hen I passed the e4ams and then the orals, I said I ouldn't be available until 6une of 19A0, because I anted to stay at Harvard long enough to take my general e4aminations, the oral e4aminations. So I ent in better qualified in the field of economics than other areas, and I did more ork in the Foreign Service in economics, I suppose, than any other line of ork of the Foreign Service. : Just to get an idea of how the Foreign Service was at that time when you came in, were you trained right away, or were you sent out to a post to get training and then come back' How did that work' 2 T9THI88: In the first place, those ere the days hen you ere a Foreign Service unclassified for about five years, and I came in relatively late age- ise, in 19A0. I as 30 in the fall of 19A0. My first post as vice consul in Windsor, Ontario, here I as doing absolutely useless ork issuing border crossing cards so that Canadians ouldn't sneak into the 9nited States and sabotage us. Absolutely stupid ork, because a Canadian ould take a ro boat and ro across the Detroit 2iver. Well, it asn't entirely useless, because hile e had first a consul general, Marshall 5ance, ho seemed to be oblivious to the fact that the ar as going on, later he as replaced by another consul general. I think his name as Donald. I'm not sure about that. But I told him that at that time in Detroit labor and management of the automotive industry ere saying that they couldn't convert into artime production ithout a si4-month period of unemployment. I thought this as nonsense, and so I did a study in Windsor ( here there are the subsidiaries of American automobile plantsC, to see ho they converted to artime production ith very minimal unemployment period. And my study sho ed that this had happened. So I did do something hich I thought as interesting and useful and consistent ith my o n background. Then I ent do n to the Foreign Service school in Washington, the so-called Foreign Service school. It as about five eeks, and at the end of those five eeks, one had t o significant intervie s, one ith the head of personnel, ho as 6ack Erhardt, and the second one ith G. Ho land Sha , the assistant secretary for administration. Erhardt as a big, rough fello from Brooklyn, Ne Dork. He looked at my record, and said, ETuthill, you're from Montclair, Ne 6ersey.E And I said, EThat's right.E He said, EDid you ever play baseball on the Montclair Academy athletic fieldFE And I said, EDes, I did.E He said, E2emember that left field fenceFE And I said, EDes, sir.E EWell,E he said, E e played baseball against the Academy.E Then he described to me--and took about 10 minutes--catching a ball up against the left field fence. He didn't like that left field fence. And he ent on and on like that. He kne e had just half an hour. It came to about the last t o or three minutes, and he said, EOkay, Tuthill, you've done a lot of ork in economics and e need people in economics. Good luck.E And he put out his great big pa , and e shook hands. Actually, later I became a good friend of Erhardt. He as the first American minister in Austria after the ar. At one stage, he told me, ETuthill, don't let them do to you hat they've done to me.E At that time he as about 55 years of age. He said, EI am squee7ed dry. I have no more energy left, I'm e4hausted, and I've done all these jobs. I haven't taken care of myself.E It as good advice, because one thing I did learn during the ar, at first I as appalled--because I finally ended up on Bob 3 Murphy's staff at Eisenho er's headquarters--I as appalled at the military taking time out to go riding or play tennis or golf ith a ar on. But gradually, it sunk into my skull that they ere very sensible. They ere keeping in good physical conditionG they ere better able to do their job. At any event, I had the benefit of the Erhardt conversation. The second conversation as ith G. Ho land Sha . G. Ho land Sha probably should have been a monk, and his office as sort of like a monk's cell. He sat there behind his desk, and he said, EMr. Tuthill.E None of that ETuthillE like ith Erhardt. This as EMr. Tuthill.E EMr. Tuthill, hat part of the ork of the Foreign Service ould you be interested inFE I said, EWell, I think I ought to start probably in economics.E He said, EWell, you kno e have a very interesting program in the State Department. If you've been in the Foreign Service for four or five years and if you've sho n some talent in the field of economics, e can arrange to send you back for a year of graduate study in economics. Would that interest youFE My hole bio data as right in front of him. And I said, EWell, Mr. Sha , I think it ould be quite delightful, but inasmuch as I have just finished si4 years of graduate study and three years of university teaching in the field of economics, I onder if this is really a good use of State Department funds and time.E So it as a pointless meeting. That as the Foreign Service school of that day. But there ere some very good, able people around. As I say, Erhardt really-- ell, Sha as a good man, I guess, in his role, but it did irritate me that the hole bio data as there, and he didn't even bother to glance at it. : Moving ahead, you spent much of your career dealing with Europe sort of as an entity. How did you get into this particular field' T9THI88: Well, I as, as I said, first in Windsor, and then Pearl Harbor came, and I as here in Washington. My assignment to Bombay as canceled because I as married. Instead, I as sent to Ma7atlan, hich had been the center of the 6apanese intelligence operations on the Pacific coast. We didn't have militarily anything bet een California and the Panama Canal, and the main job there as to find out about the 6apanese submarines hich ere landing and to snoop around to see hether the 6apanese ere going to try any major landing on the Me4ican coast.
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