Tuesday Volume 560 12 March 2013 No. 128

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Tuesday 12 March 2013

£5·00 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2013 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 137 12 MARCH 2013 138

Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Is it not House of Commons the truth that demand has been so sucked out of the economy by the Government’s policies that there just Tuesday 12 March 2013 is not the growth? Telling us how competitive we are is living in cloud cuckoo land, given that even the Office for Budget Responsibility says that growth is going to The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock be very slow, even in the coming year.

Mr Osborne: To get a lecture from the Labour party PRAYERS on demand! The economy shrank by 6% when the shadow Chancellor was in the Cabinet, and we are [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] picking up the pieces of the mess he and his party left behind. One of those pieces was the deeply uncompetitive business tax system which meant that companies were BUSINESS BEFORE QUESTIONS moving their headquarters out of the United Kingdom. Companies are now moving into the UK because of the LONDON LOCAL AUTHORITIES AND TRANSPORT FOR changes we have made. LONDON (NO.2)BILL [LORDS](BY ORDER) Consideration of Bill, as amended, opposed and deferred Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con): It is small businesses until Tuesday 19 March (Standing Order No. 20). in our constituencies that will hold the key to Britain’s economic revival. Does the Chancellor agree that they are simply not getting the support they need from the banks at the moment and that although the funding for Oral Answers to Questions lending scheme is good, most of the money is currently going into mortgages rather than businesses? I realise that he will not want to say much now, just before the Budget, but can he at least reassure the House that the TREASURY needs of small businesses are right at the top of his agenda for this Budget?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer was asked— Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend has that assurance. The funding for lending scheme, joint with the Bank of Competitiveness England, is now supporting the small and medium-sized business sector as well as the mortgage market, and is 1. Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con): What recent assessment repairing the damage to the financial system caused by he has made of the UK’s business competitiveness. the financial crisis. He is also right to say that small [147123] businesses are the bedrock of our economic revival, which is why we have cut the small companies tax rate, The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): which before the general election the Labour party Under this Government, Britain has moved into the top wanted to put up. We have also carried on the relief for 10 of the most competitive places in the world to do small businesses from business rates, and in the autumn business, according to the World Economic Forum; our statement we increased tenfold the annual investment tax system is seen as one of the most pro-business in the allowance, so that small businesses can invest for the world; market interest rates are at record lows; red tape future and create jobs. The Government understand has been cut by almost £850 million in the past two that there needs to be a private sector recovery in order years; and exports to China, India and Brazil are up by not to repeat the mistakes of the past. almost two thirds since 2009. Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) Claire Perry: I thank the Chancellor for that reply. Is (Lab): The Chancellor boasts that all is going well for he aware that, according to accountants KPMG, Britain British business, but terrible figures out this morning is now the best place in the world to do business, for the show that manufacturing is down by 3% compared with first time ever? That is very welcome news for businesses last year’s figure. Business has lost all confidence to in my constituency, but what more do we need to do to invest, so when will he pull his head out of the sand and maintain and consolidate that position? see that his plan is clearly failing?

Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend refers to the remarkable Mr Osborne: The manufacturing sector halved as a survey by KPMG that found that in the space of three share of the British economy when Labour was in office years Britain has gone from having one of the least and we had the fastest decline in British manufacturing competitive business tax systems in the world to having in British history. The steps that we have taken to the most competitive one; we are ahead of Ireland, the support manufacturers, to help with investment allowances Netherlands and Luxembourg, as well as, of course, the and to ensure that they have access to fast-growing United States, France and Germany. That is because of parts of the world, such as China and India, are all part the hard work we have done on corporation tax and on of rebalancing and rebuilding the British economy. I the controlled foreign companies regime. Of course, we was in the west midlands a couple of weeks ago, and have to go on making this country the most competitive there are 67,000 new private sector jobs in that region place to do business, so that we can succeed in the alone; I mention the region because private sector global race. employment fell during the boom years under the previous 139 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 140

Labour Government. We must get behind the private Mr Osborne: Our benchmark was to restore the fiscal sector and we must get behind business: that is exactly credibility of this country and that credibility has earned what this Government are doing. us record low interest rates. The hon. Gentleman talks about wriggling out of things we did in the late period Credit Rating of the last decade, but he ran the leadership election campaign for the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown)—he was the campaign 2. Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): What recent assessment manager—and he should apologise for that disastrous he has made of the UK’s credit rating; and if he will premiership and the chancellorship that preceded it, make a statement. [147124] which put this country in this mess in the first place.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): Chris Leslie: We are all deeply moved by the Chancellor’s As I said to the House last month, the recent Moody’s remorse and contrition, but let me remind him of his decision was a stark reminder of the debt problems first benchmark test: facing Britain and the clearest possible warning to “We will safeguard Britain’s credit rating”. anyone who thinks we can run away from confronting them. We will not do that. He has failed on the other benchmark tests, too: he said that he would ensure greater availability of credit to small and medium-sized enterprises; he has failed on Nic Dakin: When he was shadow Chancellor in 2009 economic growth; he is failing on borrowing and the and Standard & Poor’s put the UK on negative watch, the deficit; and he is failing on living standards. After three right hon. Gentleman was unequivocal in calling for a years of failure, when will it dawn on the Chancellor general election. Now that the UK has lost its triple that his strategy is not working? A status on his watch, will he be consistent and urge his right hon. Friend the Prime Minister to go to the palace? Mr Osborne: We have cut the deficit by a quarter, a million new jobs are being created in the private sector Mr Osborne: The advice from the rating agency could and there is record employment in our economy, as well not be clearer: a reduced political commitment to fiscal as record female employment. We are rebalancing the consolidation would put Britain’s creditworthiness at British economy after all the problems of the past. The risk. That reduced political commitment would come hon. Gentleman talks about remorse and contrition, from the Opposition, who oppose every single spending but until we hear some remorse and contrition from cut, who have no credible economic policy and who, those on the Labour Front Bench about the economic despite having promised for two years to produce a mistakes they made, no one will pay the slightest attention deficit reduction plan, still do not have one. We hear to what they, and in particular the shadow Chancellor, that a draft Labour manifesto is coming this July; have to say. perhaps then we will see a proper plan to deal with the deficit Labour created. Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): Given that the UK Government are able to borrow at historically low Mark Garnier (Wyre Forest) (Con): Does my right rates, may I urge my right hon. Friend to take advantage hon. Friend agree that the only true measure of of that position in order to prioritise capital investment, creditworthiness is the price paid by the Government to particularly in the housing market, to give a strong fillip borrow? Gilt yields are still 16 points lower today than to growth? before Moody’s downgrade. Does that not reconfirm the international markets’ confidence in this country’s Mr Osborne: We have increased capital investment ability to pay its debts and the Chancellor’s programme from the period of the Labour Government. Capital to tackle Labour’s deficit crisis? spending as a percentage of our national income is more than under the Labour Government, and we have Mr Osborne: My hon. Friend is right that our credibility increased by £10 billion our spending on capital from as a nation is tested every day when we seek to borrow the plans they left us. I agree that we should be using the money to pay for the deficit that the Opposition racked Government’s credibility to do more, which is why the up. We can borrow at historically low rates, which infrastructure guarantees and the housing guarantees means low rates for people’s mortgages and low rates are coming on stream. Guarantees are being written for people’s small business loans. Of course, if we lost and that will help to build the infrastructure that this that credibility by pursuing the Opposition’s policies, country needs. interest rates would rocket, people would be put out of their homes and businesses would go bust. That is Interest Rate Swapping exactly what we will avoid. 3. Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab): What progress Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): I am he has made on supporting victims of interest rate swap sorry; we cannot let the Chancellor wriggle out that easily. mis-selling. [147125] Does he remember writing his pre-manifesto paper, “A New Economic Model: Eight Benchmarks for Britain”, The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Greg Clark): just before the last general election? In it, he said that On 31 January, the Financial Services Authority published “for the first time, the British people will have eight clear and the findings of the pilot review into interest rate swap transparent benchmarks—Benchmarks for Britain—against which mis-selling. The full review of 40,000 cases is now under they can judge the success or failure of their Chancellor and their way, and the FSA says it should be completed within six government over the next Parliament. We will be accountable.” months. Small business organisations played a major Will he remind the House of his first benchmark test? role in exposing the scandal, so I can announce to the 141 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 142

House that from today bodies representing consumers, scheme. The business bank has a remit to try to diversify including small businesses, will be able to apply to make the range of sources of finance available for small super-complaints to the Financial Conduct Authority, businesses, because in this country we are too dependent giving them fast-track access to the regulator. That on solely bank finance. I shall certainly consider what important power should help to ensure that any future my hon. Friend said. misconduct is detected quickly and put right.

Jim McGovern: I thank the Minister for that answer. Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP): Small My constituent, Mr James Boyle, has a contract with and medium-sized businesses are still finding it difficult Clydesdale bank, which seems to be excluded from the to get banks to lend them essential finance. What further review. The main banks—RBS, HSBC, Barclays and steps can the Minister take to reconnect banks with the Lloyds—are all included. Why are the Clydesdale bank, reality of business? Up to now, it seems that banks have and my constituent, excluded from the review? been a law unto themselves.

Greg Clark: I can confirm that the Clydesdale bank Danny Alexander: The hon. Gentleman makes a very has now become part of the review, as have all the other good point. That is the purpose of a number of the principal banks. The hon. Gentleman has raised the schemes I mentioned earlier. The funding for lending case of his constituent with me before; even though the scheme is designed to get banks to lend more to small product was not within the review’s terms of reference, businesses, and a complaints process has been put in Clydesdale has agreed to consider it as part of the place, allowing independent adjudication when cases go review. wrong. I encourage the hon. Gentleman to refer constituents to the scheme, which has overturned bank decisions in a Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): I large number of cases. have constituents who are concerned that the FSA may come under pressure from the banks to water down its findings and reduce the scope of the redress scheme, to Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con): In welcoming their disadvantage. What can my right hon. Friend say the funding for lending scheme and the other measures to reassure my constituents about that important issue? my right hon. Friend mentioned, may I urge him to break up and sell off as soon as possible the publicly Greg Clark: My hon. Friend raises a very important owned banks, so that we have more competition on the point. The review is under the auspices of the Financial high street, and constituents of mine who are unable to Services Authority, and each bank has had to appoint borrow on good projects have more to choose from? independent reviewers who are themselves accountable to the FCA. It is absolutely crucial that the objectivity they bring to bear cannot be compromised, and I have Danny Alexander: It is right that we own large chunks given the FSA clear feedback that it should have that in of two banks, because that was necessary to clear up the mind during the review. mess of the under-regulated, overheated banking system that was created under the present Opposition when the Lending and Equity shadow Chancellor was City Minister. We are working as hard as we can to get those banks in good order and we are making progress in the direction that my hon. 4. Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): Friend suggests. What steps he has taken to increase the amount of (a) lending and (b) equity financing to the real economy. [147126] Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab/Co- op): The experience of small businesses across the UK The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): does not match the rosy picture painted by the Chancellor The funding for lending scheme is aimed at boosting earlier or by the Chief Secretary to the Treasury. Last bank lending to the real economy and has already led to week we learned that, despite the funding for lending some of the cheapest mortgage rates on record. Through scheme, net lending to businesses was down £4.5 billion the seed enterprise investment scheme, the Government in the last quarter. Will the Chancellor now act on provide generous tax relief for investment in firms with Labour’s calls to reform the scheme immediately so that high growth potential, and we will deploy an additional small and medium-sized enterprises get the funding £1 billion through the business bank. that they so urgently need? Andrew Selous: Does the Chief Secretary agree that raising share capital is a vital way to help businesses grow, Danny Alexander: I am sorry that we did not hear the in addition to loan finance? Between 40 and 50 extra initial apology for the mess that was made in the financial public offerings in technology companies could come to system by the Opposition when they were in office. the UK in the next six months if we get conditions Many of the steps that we are taking are necessary to right, so in the forthcoming Budget will the Treasury do repair the damage that the hon. Lady and her Front-Bench all it can to help businesses access share capital? colleagues did to the financial system and the banking system. She should also have noted that net lending to Danny Alexander: I certainly agree that there is a need the real economy increased by £2.5 billion in January to diversify the range of funding sources, including the 2013. The schemes that we are putting in place are one my hon. Friend describes, particularly for small making a difference, but we are facing a continuing very businesses and businesses with high growth potential. challenging situation and that is why we will continue to That is the purpose of the seed enterprise investment look for further things to do to help small businesses. 143 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 144

Unemployment (Halifax) Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): I congratulate the Government—the Conservative-led coalition—on reducing the deficit, but of course all that is slowing the 5. Mrs Linda Riordan (Halifax) (Lab/Co-op): What rate of growth in the debt. When does the Minister recent estimate he has made of unemployment levels in think we will get to a budget that is balanced? Halifax. [147127] Sajid Javid: My hon. Friend makes a good point The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): about how we must tackle the record national debt that The claimant count in Halifax in December 2012 was we inherited. It went up threefold during the 13 years of 4,328. The UK has a lower rate of unemployment than the previous Government’s time in power. When we set either the US or the euro area and, as the Chancellor out the Budget forecast next week, my hon. Friend will said earlier, we have created more than 1 million jobs in get a good answer. the private sector since 2010. Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Businesses Mrs Riordan: I thank the Minister for that reply, but in Swansea are telling me that assessing net debt should in reality the Government’s record on unemployment in include an assessment of net assets, and they have Halifax since 2010 is that the number out of work has written to me and the Chancellor asking that Swansea risen from 7.3% to 9.2%. Halifax cannot sustain those be considered for superconnectivity status, namely that levels of unemployment for much longer. Can the Minister the Government invest in our broadband capability. Is understand how angry people are? What action is he that something he is willing to look at positively with taking on unemployment in Halifax? the businesses involved?

Danny Alexander: Of course I recognise what the Mr Speaker: That was very wide of the subject of hon. Lady says and that unemployment is a concern public sector net debt falling as a share of GDP in right across our economy. Unemployment rates across 2015-16. The hon. Gentleman needs to do his research the economy have been coming down. She refers to the and have another go. Go back to the drawing board. We experience in her constituency. Since 2008-09 the number are grateful to him. of apprentices in Halifax doubled, so some of the measures that the Government are taking, such as the Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con): Would it ever be a investment in apprenticeships and the Work programme, credible policy to borrow more in order to borrow less, are making a difference to her constituents. The most or would it simply increase our debt, damage our credit important thing that we can do to continue to support rating and ensure that the country would be in even unemployment moving in the right direction is to maintain greater difficulties than it already is thanks to the Labour the credible fiscal policy that this Government have put party? in place, and not give up on it, as the Opposition would. Sajid Javid: My hon. Friend makes a good point. If Debt the country were now following the Labour party’s plans, independent assessments show that the country would be borrowing £200 billion more: more debt, 6. Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East more deficit. As we bring the deficit under control we Cleveland) (Lab): What recent assessment he has made will be able to invest in things such as broadband plans of progress on the Government’s target of public sector in Swansea and help growth in this country. net debt falling as a share of GDP in 2015-16. [147128] Child Poverty The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid): The independent Office for Budget Responsibility assesses 7. Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab): What the Government’s performance against the fiscal mandate assessment he has made of the effect on child poverty and supplementary debt target. The OBR’s assessment of his changes to the uprating of tax credits and other is that the public sector net debt as a percentage of payments announced in the autumn statement. [147129] GDP will be falling by 2016-17. 10. Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab): What assessment Tom Blenkinsop: Will the Minister confirm that the he has made of the effect on child poverty of his Government will have more than doubled the national changes to the uprating of tax credits and other payments debt between 2010 and 2015, and that this Government announced in the autumn statement. [147132] will have increased the national debt by more in five years than it increased in the entire 13 years of the The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid): Labour Government? The Government have protected poor and vulnerable groups while undertaking the urgent task of tackling Sajid Javid: Having brought the country to the brink the fiscal deficit. Work remains the best and most of bankruptcy and having set the economy ablaze, the immediate way out of poverty, and we have continued Opposition now throw stones at the firefighters. The to prioritise providing the best possible work incentives country will never forget that we had the largest budget for welfare reform and increasing the personal allowance. deficit when we came to power. We were borrowing £5,000 a second, and that deficit began in 2001, long Andy McDonald: The Government’s own impact before the financial crisis. Since then, we have cut it by a assessment says that 200,000 more children will be quarter, brought back confidence to Britain and created pushed into poverty as a result of the cuts to tax credits jobs at a record rate. and benefits next month. The Children’s Society says 145 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 146 that 40% of the children in my constituency now live Corporation Tax in poverty. Will the Minister provide an assessment of how many more children in Middlesbrough will be in 8. Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): What plans he absolute poverty in 2016 as a result of the Chancellor’s has to increase corporation tax payments in the UK by failures, with not enough money for their food, warmth large multinational companies; and if he will make a and shelter? statement. [147130]

Sajid Javid: The hon. Gentleman knows that the 13. Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) official measure for child poverty is flawed. It is based (Con): What steps he is taking to ensure that international on changes in relative income, which has meant, for companies pay the appropriate levels of tax on revenues example, that under Labour child poverty fell by 300,000 earned in the UK. [147135] during a recession—clearly a nonsense. This Government are focused on the causes of child poverty, such as 15. Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): What steps he is unemployment. I would have thought that the hon. taking to improve international co-operation to tackle Gentleman would welcome the fact that more people tax avoidance. [R] [147137] are employed in Britain today than at any time in our history. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke): The Government are determined to ensure that Mr Hanson: The Institute for Fiscal Studies estimates multinational companies pay their fair share of tax. that the changes that the Government are bringing in The UK is committed to taking multilateral action will cost a one-earner family with children around through the G20 and the OECD to tackle the issues £534 from April this year. Will the Minister confirm of profit-shifting by multinationals and erosion of the that figure, and in doing so, will he confirm also that a corporate tax base. The OECD presented its initial one-earner family with children where the earner happens report on addressing these issues at the G20 meeting in to be a millionaire will receive a £40,000 cut in April this Moscow last month and will present a comprehensive year? action plan to tackle them at the G20 in July this year.

Sajid Javid: What I can confirm to the right hon. Fiona Mactaggart: Even if the OECD produces a Gentleman is that this Government are focused on the decent action plan, nothing will happen before September, causes of poverty, which is what he should be concerned yet Britain is responsible for some of the biggest tax about. I am surprised that he raises this question, havens in the world: Barbados, Bermuda and the British because he highlights to his constituents that during the Virgin Islands received more foreign direct investment last term of the previous Government youth unemployment than Germany and Japan in 2010. When did the Minister in his constituency went up 149%. Under this Government last talk to the Foreign Secretary about what he could it is down 18%. do about these tax havens?

Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con): Is it not a Mr Gauke: It is worth pointing out that these places lamentable fact ignored by Opposition Members that are not simply colonies in which we can direct orders; for far too long this country has had too many children they have a degree of independence. We are working growing up in workless households, which means bad with other countries at the G20 and the G8 and through outcomes for those children over the longer term? Will the OECD to ensure that we have a modernised tax my right hon. and hon. Friends redouble their efforts to system, which includes addressing jurisdictions where make the tax system as simple as possible and to create there is a lack of transparency. incentives for people to work and set a good example for their children? Tim Loughton: Does the Minister agree with me on this very simple principle: companies should expect to be liable for appropriate tax in the UK on goods and Sajid Javid: My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and services paid for and used by people and organisations that is why the Government have increased the personal based in the UK? allowance, cutting taxes for the low paid, helping 24 million people in the country. In addition, we are introducing universal credit to create the right incentives to get Mr Gauke: The point I would make is that we want to people back into work. have an international tax system under which economic activity is taxed where that economic activity takes place. The fact is that the international rules have not Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): On the subject of moved with the times, but they need to do so, and I am the personal allowance, does my hon. Friend agree that delighted that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is leading that has made a huge difference to a large number of the way in this debate. people who are less well-off? In my constituency alone, 38,000 people have benefited. Jane Ellison: Many of my constituents—particularly younger constituents and Church groups—are very Sajid Javid: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The interested in this agenda and are closely following what previous Government abolished the 10p tax rate. This the Government are hoping to achieve this year. Is Government have cut taxes for the lowest paid in this the Minister optimistic that our international partners country, 24 million people have benefited and 2 million will respond positively to this agenda and we can make people have been taken out of taxation altogether. progress on it? 147 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 148

Mr Gauke: It is fair to say that we are making progress finances when his party was in office. We have dealt so far. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor has worked with those increases on a case-by-case basis and reduced very closely with his German and French counterparts fuel duty by a penny. I think that is the right action to in pushing forward this agenda, and I hope we will support motorists, families and small businesses alike. make significant progress over the months ahead. 16. [147138] Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con): Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): Although Does my right hon. Friend share my concern that minimum I wish the Minister success in achieving the international unit pricing for alcohol could hit responsible drinkers objectives, does he agree that dismantling the ability of from some of the most deprived families? [147138] the UK tax authorities to deliver on that international agenda is not the way to go about it, and with 2,000 Danny Alexander: That matter is under consideration, staff at Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs already and announcements will be made in due course. having been sacked, does he not worry that we will be unable to deliver on it? Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): But surely the Minister cannot run away from the fact Mr Gauke: In areas of enforcement and compliance, that the largest single increase in fuel prices at the we are investing more money in HMRC. Staff numbers pumps was the VAT increase. Also, over the past two will increase, and that contrasts favourably with the record weeks the weakening pound has driven up prices at the of the previous Government. The fact is that HMRC’s pumps. That needs to be seriously considered. ability to get in more money is increasing year after year. Danny Alexander: I do not run away from any of the decisions the Government have made, and the hon. Alcohol and Fuel Duty Gentleman should not run away from the fact that the ratchet on fuel prices planned by his party in the last 9. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): What recent Parliament, which was baked into the public finances, assessment he has made of the effect of alcohol duty and would have dwarfed the increase to which he refers. fuel duty on the cost of living and household budgets. [147131] Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD): Turning to the other escalator, the nonsensical beer duty escalator, The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): I can give my right hon. Friend good news: there are As a result of Government actions on fuel duty, from now around 1,000 breweries in this country, the highest April average pump prices will be 13p per litre lower number for 70 years, because of the explosion in micro- than if we had implemented the previous Government’s breweries due to fairer and lower beer duty. Now that plan to squeeze motorists, and will remain at least the Government are rightly going to tackle overcharging 10p per litre lower over the remainder of the Parliament, by the pub companies, which will allow more access to giving real help to millions of families and small businesses. market for the wonderful micro-breweries, may we also have some joined-up thinking with the abolition in the Duncan Hames: I certainly welcome the efforts that Budget of the beer duty escalator, which simply does the coalition Government have already made, but with not make sense? the price of fuel now once again nudging £1.50 per litre in some places, does my right hon. Friend recognise the Danny Alexander: I certainly share my hon. Friend’s anxiety that the continuing prospect of rises in fuel duty admiration for micro-breweries: one in my constituency causes people in rural parts of Wiltshire, as much as in has recently produced a beer called Ginger Rodent, which the highlands of Scotland, who find themselves with sold out in its first run. I look forward to more sales little alternative to running a car? when it is in the House of Commons bar in June. As for the rest of his question, I take it as a Budget representation. Danny Alexander: As my hon. Friend knows, as a fellow rural MP I fully understand the pressures he Inflation: Average Earnings describes, which is why we have taken the action I set out in my previous answer. He will also know that the 11. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) pressures on the public finances remain substantial. I (Lab): What recent estimate he has made of the extent would remind him and the House that 25 million working to which the rate of increase of average earnings has people in this country will see the largest ever increase kept in line with the rate of consumer price inflation. in their income tax personal allowance, meaning that [147133] the income tax cuts delivered by this Government will amount to £50 a month from April. The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Greg Clark): The average gross weekly earnings of full-time employees Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab): One of the biggest rose by 2.8% between the last quarter of 2011 and the hits on petrol prices has been the VAT increase. The hon. last quarter of 2012, while consumer prices rose by 2.7%. Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames) is absolutely As a result of the increases in the personal tax allowance right that there are now record prices at the pumps. Will and rising employment, average household disposable the Minister consider temporarily lowering the VAT income has increased by 2.8% more than inflation. rate, to help hard-working families across the country? Chi Onwurah: Clearly the Chancellor has no Danny Alexander: With all respect to the hon. Gentleman, understanding of what it is like to get by on a low income I am not sure that he has reflected upon the substantial when increases in prices such as VAT mean debt and fuel duty escalator that was baked into the public hardship for many families. Equally, last week the Office 149 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 150 for Budget Responsibility confirmed that the Prime Mr Gauke: The costing for the cutting of the additional Minister has no understanding of his economic policies rate, according to Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs either. Is that why the Chancellor is implementing a tax and signed off by the Office for Budget Responsibility, cut for millionaires—because he does not understand was £100 million. The cost of raising the personal real life or economics? allowance is about £9 million, and that is where our priorities lie. Greg Clark: If the hon. Lady had a grasp of economics, she would understand the need to take people out of 17. [147139] Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) taxation, which is what we have done through the (Lab): Instead of spending £3 billion on cutting the 50p increase in the personal allowance. In fact, that increase rate for the richest, why not put the money towards affects the lowest paid most of all and is equivalent to a 100,000 social rented homes of one and two bedrooms pay increase of 4.5% since the general election. A higher to make the coalition Government’s bedroom tax personal allowance is a better policy than the shadow work? Chancellor’s plan to introduce the 10p rate, which the Financial Times described as “a pretty basic howler”. Mr Gauke: This figure of £3 billion that is repeated time and again is simply inaccurate. It makes no assumption for behavioural effects whatsoever, and this was never Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con): the position of the Labour party. The fact is that the The shadow Chancellor is a very gracious chap and, I cost is £100 million, recouped several times over by am sure, would wish to commend the Government for other measures contained in the last Budget that are taking 25 million people out of tax by the simple getting more money out of the wealthy. measure of increasing the personal allowance. Can my right hon. Friend share with the House what that means Tax Avoidance for an individual’s annual budget? 14. Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) Greg Clark: Yes. By next month it will be worth £600 (Con): What progress his Department has made on a year for every basic rate taxpayer, which is an enormous ending the abuse of tax avoidance schemes. [147136] increase. For someone on median earnings, it is equivalent to a pay rise of 4.5%. I would have thought that the The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David shadow Chancellor, who professes to be interested in Gauke): The Government are fully committed to tackling helping the low-paid, would endorse the policy. tax avoidance, taking all necessary steps to protect the Exchequer. Since 2010, the Government have introduced Income Tax 26 changes to the law to close loopholes and tighten our legislation against tax avoidance. We are introducing a general anti-abuse rule in this year’s Finance Bill to 12. Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and tackle abusive avoidance schemes, and we will be consulting Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): What estimate he has made on measures to address high-risk promoters of avoidance of what the annual value of his planned reduction in schemes. the additional rate of income tax to 45% would be to a person earning £1 million a year. [147134] Stephen Phillips: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer. One of the drivers of these aggressive tax The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David avoidance schemes has been the cottage industry that Gauke): Owing to the significant behavioural responses has grown up among those who seek, for their own to changes in marginal tax rates at high levels of income, financial gain, to persuade those who want to pay their the annual value of changing the additional rate of tax taxes to enter such schemes. What steps are the Government would not reflect the actual Exchequer impacts of taking to deal with the promoters of these aggressive the change. HMRC’s report “The Exchequer effects of tax avoidance schemes? the 50 per cent additional rate of income tax”, which was published alongside the 2012 Budget, set out that Mr Gauke: My hon. and learned Friend is absolutely behavioural response in detail. right to raise this issue, which the Government have focused on extensively in recent months. We have consulted Gregg McClymont: Well, that was very clear, Mr Speaker. on what we can do in this area, and I hope that we will The answer, of course, is £40,000 a year. Why is a be able to report back on that shortly. We have also £40,000 a year tax cut for millionaires this Government’s strengthened the disclosure of tax avoidance schemes priority? regime, making it increasingly difficult for people to peddle these artificial, contrived schemes that involve people not paying their fair share. We do not think that Mr Gauke: The purpose of income tax is to raise that is right and we are doing something about it. money to fund public services. The 50p rate of income tax did not raise money to fund public services, so we Mr George Mudie (Leeds East) (Lab): Two years ago have got rid of it. Christine Lagarde gave the Treasury 6,000 names of UK nationals using Swiss bank HSBC to avoid paying Gavin Barwell (Croydon Central) (Con): On the subject tax. Two years later, one of them has been convicted. Is of priorities, how much does the Exchequer believe that the case closed on the other 5,999, and if so, why? cutting the higher rate of tax will cost compared with the cost of raising the personal allowance, which has Mr Gauke: I am not going to get drawn into individual benefited thousands of my constituents and millions of cases, but I will say that under this Government the people across the country? number of prosecutions will increase fivefold. We are 151 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 152 giving additional resources to HMRC to help to deal Mr Speaker: I am extremely grateful for the hon. with prosecutions, and we have strengthened its offshore Gentleman’s generosity, but I am afraid we are not team. Our record on dealing with tax evasion—dealing going to take Question 19. We are moving on. [HON. with those who have cheated the system—is one of MEMBERS: “Shame!”] Oh, go on, then. I am not going to which we are proud, and it compares very favourably ruin the hon. Gentleman’s day. with the record that we inherited. Budgets 2010 and 2011 Mr Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con): Private equity is an important source of investment 19. George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): What for expanding businesses, but when they over-leverage it assessment he has made of the effect of measures he can lead to disasters such as that with Castlebeck. It can announced in the 2010 and 2011 Budgets. [147141] also lead to protracted negotiations with the Revenue over the deductability of interest and an erosion of the tax base. Will my hon. Friend consider the German The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David approach of limiting the level of interest that can be Gauke): I am delighted to answer Question 19. deductible in any tax year as a proportion of a company’s The Budget of June 2010 set out the Government’s profit—the so-called bright line? plans to reduce the deficit and rebuild the economy. The Government’s strategy since then has provided the Mr Gauke: We did look at interest deductibility when foundations for recovery. Market interest rates have we first came into office. However, in the corporate tax fallen to near-record lows. The deficit has been reduced road map that we set out in 2010, we took the view that by a quarter over two years. Employment is at record we were not going to change the rules fundamentally highs and exports of goods to China, India and Brazil with regard to interest deductibility. What we have have increased by about a third. done, of course, is favour equity more by cutting corporation tax. My hon. Friend also raises wider issues about George Freeman: The Government set out in 2010-11 private equity and leverage that the Banking Commission some key initiatives in the all-important life science is considering. sector: the biomedical catalyst fund, the patent box and tax breaks for start-up companies. This week sees the publication of the catalyst fund’s first annual report, National Infrastructure Plan showing that more than £1 billion has been raised in five new early stage funds in the UK, with more than 50 18. Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): What recent innovative medical projects coming to the NHS. Does progress has been made on implementing the national that not suggest that we are laying the foundations for a infrastructure plan. [147140] sustainable recovery?

The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend makes an excellent point We have made significant progress in implementing the and I am sure that the House is delighted to have heard national infrastructure plan and published an update in him do so. I know that he has done some superb work December’s autumn statement alongside the latest version with the biotech industry. I met representatives of the of the infrastructure pipeline. A further detailed delivery BioIndustry Association a few weeks ago and they update on the top 40 infrastructure projects will be recognised that the steps we have taken on the patent published alongside the Budget. box and research and development tax credits have put in place a very favourable environment for that industry. Nick Smith: Why did the Government cut infrastructure investment by £12.8 billion more than the plans they Mr Speaker: Unfortunately, we certainly do not have inherited? time for Question 20 from the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) on article 153(5) of Danny Alexander: The hon. Gentleman will know the treaty on the functioning of the European Union, that in the 2010 spending review and the 2011 and 2012 but you never know what topical questions might bring. autumn statements, we increased spending on infrastructure compared with the plans for capital spending that we Topical Questions inherited from the previous Government. Consequently, investment in infrastructure in this country is higher as T1. [147148] Mr Stephen Hepburn (Jarrow) (Lab): If he a share of GDP over this Parliament than it was on will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities. average during the previous Government’s time in office. The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne): Mr Speaker: I call George Freeman. The core purpose of the Treasury is to ensure the stability and prosperity of the economy. I am pleased to George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con): Question 19, announce that I have decided to reappoint Martin Mr Speaker. Weale as external member to the Monetary Policy Committee. He is a wise and valued member of the Mr Speaker: No, I was taking the hon. Gentleman on committee and I am delighted he has agreed to continue Question 18. Does he wish to come in on Question 18? his service. The spending review will be published on Wednesday George Freeman: I was going to come in on Question 19, 26 June and its spending envelope will be set in next Sir. week’s Budget. 153 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 154

Mr Hepburn: Bankers’ bonuses are up £15 billion, Businesses and families are feeling the squeeze, so why executive boardroom pay is up by 27%, and the richest will the Chancellor not act to stimulate the economy 1,000 people in this country have increased their wealth and why is it only millionaires who are getting a £3 billion by £155 billion, yet there is still a tax cut on the way for tax cut from him? Is not the truth that his plan is the richest 1%. When is the Chancellor going to do failing? That is why all the Government Members are something for the other 99% who are paying the bill to losing confidence. subsidise the lifestyle of his privileged chums? Mr Osborne: I am tempted to say, “Look behind Mr Osborne: We are increasing the personal allowance you.” With a week to go until the Budget, is that the for 24 million people. Bankers’ bonuses were £15 billion best that the shadow Chancellor can do? He has produced a year when the shadow Chancellor was City Minister, an e-mail from Conservative Back Benchers who are but they have come down to just over £1 billion—a perfectly entitled to ask for things in the Budget. In this dramatic reduction as we now have a more responsible party, we are perfectly prepared for people to express an financial sector. opinion and to listen to the views of our colleagues, unlike him and the operation that he runs. He is the face T5. [147152] Mr David Amess (Southend West) (Con): of Labour’s economic failure. As long as he remains as With the whole of the United Kingdom getting behind shadow Chancellor, it is a great thing for my party. Southend’s bid to be city of culture in 2017, will my right hon. Friend tell the House what economic Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): Given that benefits such an award would bring? an improved export performance will be crucial to Britain’s economic success, may I share with the Chancellor Mr Osborne: My Parliamentary Private Secretary, the good news that in its fourth quarter economic my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye review, the Northamptonshire chamber of commerce, (Amber Rudd), has just said in my ear that her constituency which after all represents middle England at its best, is also bidding. I will not take sides, but I know that reported that 41% of its manufacturing members reported Southend will put in a very strong bid, as will Hastings. increased exports and that 76% of service sector companies The decision will be announced shortly. reported higher figures?

Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op): The Mr Osborne: That is excellent news. I congratulate Chancellor has had plenty of advice over the weekend the businesses in my hon. Friend’s constituency and the on how to change his failing economic plan, and it has people who work for them on the hard work that they not all come from me. The former Defence Secretary are putting in. It is essential that Britain connects itself says that he should cut capital gains tax, the Business better to the fast-growing parts of our world. It is good Secretary wants a £15 billion housing boost, and even news that exports to China, India, Brazil and the like the Home Secretary is making speeches calling for a are up by two thirds under this Government, but we still new growth plan. What is going on? Do Cabinet Ministers have much more to do in that space. That is why, in not realise that the Budget is in just eight days’ time, or December’s autumn statement, we put more money have they lost confidence in the Chancellor of the into UK Trade & Investment, which will help the businesses Exchequer? in his constituency to get those export orders.

Mr Osborne: What people realise is that the right T2. [147149] Steve Reed (Croydon North) (Lab): Is it hon. Gentleman’s prescription of borrowing more as a not absurd that the Liberal Democrats, who claim that solution to Britain’s borrowing problems is exactly the the mansion tax on homes worth more than £2 million same prescription that got the country into this mess in is their policy, are poised to vote against a motion that the first place. He is like the snake oil salesman selling argues for precisely that? his miracle cures when people remember that his medicine almost killed the patient. We are not going to listen to The Chief Secretary to the Treasury (Danny Alexander): him again. I note that the shadow Chancellor did not refer to his opportunistic motion this afternoon, because we would Ed Balls: But it is the Chancellor’s plan that is failing. have had a chance to refer to Labour’s record of welfare The Business Secretary said on Monday: for the wealthy during their time in office: a lower rate “Well we are already borrowing more”— of corporation tax than for the person who cleans the offices of the private equity fund manager; a lower top [Interruption.] Government Members may cheer behind rate of tax of 45p during Labour’s 13 years in office; the Chancellor in public, but they are not cheering in loopholes in the stamp duty system; and the 10p tax private. An e-mail from the right hon. Member for rate fiasco. We will take no lessons on tax fairness from Wokingham (Mr Redwood) has fallen into my hands. It the Labour party, and we will vote for our amendment was sent around within half an hour of the Prime that confirms Liberal Democrat support for a mansion Minister’s speech last Thursday to set out alternative tax. ideas for the Budget from Back Benchers, such as income tax cuts and capital gains tax cuts. He says that “one colleague” says that we should do Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): Will my right hon. Friend update the House on what “more to help people with childcare costs.” measures the Government are taking to put right the Just one colleague! It concludes that the Chancellor unbelievably poor regulation by the previous Government, needs and say what the permanent bank levy will do to “to stimulate greater confidence, more enterprise, and to relieve improve revenues to the Exchequer, over the bank bonus some of the squeeze on the private sector.” implemented by the previous Government? 155 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 156

Mr George Osborne: We are raising more in bank The Economic Secretary to the Treasury (Sajid Javid): taxes every year of this Parliament than the previous I thank my hon. Friend for that question. Like us, Government raised in any one year during their time in Barnardo’s is interested in reducing child poverty and office. My hon. Friend is right; those revenues help to understands that that is done by creating jobs. The support public services and deal with the deficit. We private sector has created 1.2 million jobs over the past also have a better-regulated banking system, and with two years, which is more than were created during the the arrival in April of the Bank of England’s new role as last 10 years of the previous Government. prudential regulator, and the Financial Services (Banking Reform) Bill currently before Parliament, we are putting T6. [147153] Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) right all that went wrong in the banking system. (Lab): Owing to the changes to child benefit for families with a higher-rate earner, as from 7 March, 370,000 T3. [147150] Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth parents have opted not to receive child benefit. Will the and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab): Did the Business Secretary Chancellor say how many of those 370,000 parents are let the cat out of the bag yesterday? When asked on the stay-at-home mums who will lose their national insurance “Today” programme whether his call for investment in credit to their state pension, which is linked to the infrastructure to kick-start the recovery would mean receipt of child benefit? Were they advised before they more borrowing, he replied: made that decision? “Well we are already borrowing more”. Mr Gauke: As far as contributions to the state pension are concerned, the change will have no effect whatsoever Mr Osborne: We are increasing capital spending more on any of those who opt out. The system will not be than in the plans we inherited from the Labour Government. affected by the change and the hon. Lady can be assured This Government are spending more on roads than the that that is not an issue. I also point out that all previous Government did and, of course, the deficit has households affected by the high income charge on child come down by 25%. benefit are in the top 15% to 20% in terms of earnings. It is right for the Government to take some difficult Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con): decisions to reduce the deficit. Although article 153(5) of the treaty on the functioning of the European Union may be esoteric to some, it is Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): House rather important because it prohibits the European building approvals are up by two thirds. Does that reflect Union from running an incomes policy. It seems to me the success of the Government’s funding for lending that the bonus limit is an incomes policy; it is not a schemes, the Financial Secretary’s successful planning power of the European Union and therefore ought to reforms, or the sustained period of record low interest be resisted by the Government by all possible means. rates? Will the Chancellor take it to the European Court of Justice? Greg Clark: All of the above.

The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Greg Clark): T7. [147154] Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, I am delighted to answer my hon. Friend’s question. We Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab): My weekend surgeries are looking carefully at the provisions of the treaty and were dominated by constituents facing backdated payment at every aspect of the proposals. We think that this demands from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, country has a particularly rigorous set of arrangements, despite the fact that they had discharged their responsibilities and we do not want to see them diluted. and had been assured that their tax affairs were in order. Does the Minister think it is right to put people through financial stress and misery because of HMRC T4. [147151] Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab): Companies mistakes and staff cuts? are telling me that with demand at rock bottom and infrastructure projects failing to get away from the starting blocks, they see little incentive for investment in Mr Gauke: There was an issue regarding end-of-year UK industry. When drawing up the Budget, will the reconciliation, which is an errant part of the pay-as-you-earn Chancellor consider expanding the scope of enhanced system. When we came into office, 17 million cases capital allowances to cover a broader range of investment, needed to be dealt with. I think that backlog is about to and therefore encourage companies to invest in the UK be cleared—we have made great progress. We are reforming rather than take their money elsewhere? the PAYE system so that tax will be collected at the right rate at the right time, and much more accurately than has been the case in the past. The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke): I shall take that as a Budget representation, but James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con): it is worth pointing out that at the last autumn statement Does the Chancellor agree that increasing the personal the annual investment allowance was increased tenfold. allowance again will mean that a basic rate taxpayer in my constituency will pay £600 less tax in cash terms as a Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con): Has my result of the measures taken by the Government? right hon. Friend seen the recent report from Barnardo’s that highlights the reduction in child poverty in some Mr George Osborne: That is already planned and was inner-city areas such as inner London? That is because announced last year. In April, people will be £600 a year there are significantly more families in work than there —£50 a month—better off. We have also taken 2 million were this time last year. people out of tax altogether, which is a sign of our 157 Oral Answers12 MARCH 2013 Oral Answers 158 commitment to those on low incomes and a sign of our £18 billion investment programme in schools over the commitment to all those who work hard and want to course of this Parliament, which I think is a credit to get on. the Government.

T8. [147155] Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): Does my right (Lab): As the Chancellor puts the finishing touches to hon. Friend agree that infrastructure projects such as the Budget, may I, on behalf of the potteries of Stoke- the Mersey Gateway bridge, the northern rail hub and on-Trent, make another plea for applying the mineralogical High Speed 2 are good news for my constituents, good processing exemption in the taxation of energy products? news for greater Cheshire, and good news for the north That would be a helpful sign that the Government of England as a whole? understand the needs of energy intensive sectors. Mr George Osborne: I absolutely agree with my constituency neighbour. The Mersey Gateway bridge, Mr Osborne: I shall take that as a Budget representation. which has been talked about for many years, has now To be fair to the hon. Gentleman, he is always a got the go-ahead. The northern hub, which MPs from powerful champion of the ceramics industry in his all parties and on both sides of the Pennines have been constituency. calling for, is now funded and will be of particular benefit in the Greater Manchester area. High Speed 2 is Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): My controversial, but nevertheless will connect the biggest constituents find it much easier to take out a payday cities of our country and help reduce the north-south loan than to open a savings account. What steps are the divide in our economy. One piece of good news in our Government taking to make it much more difficult for economy recently has been the growth of private sector my constituents to fall into that sort of temptation? jobs in the north of England.

Sajid Javid: My hon. Friend will know that the T10. [147157] Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab): Government commissioned an independent report from Has the Chancellor of the Exchequer managed to Bristol university on the high interest lending industry. overcome the militant tendency within the Cabinet That report shows severe consumer detriment and we to allow him fully to implement the recommendations have already taken action. We announced last week that of the Heseltine review on growth and localism? we will be working on advertising content and placement, and we will be giving extra powers to the Financial Mr Osborne: We will set out next week our response Conduct Authority to impose fines and to close down to the Heseltine review. Michael Heseltine has set out a firms in the most significant cases. She may have seen compelling vision of how we can operate as a more that last week the Office of Fair Trading announced it is decentralised country and empower our great cities. I investigating a number of firms: it has told a number of was with him in Birmingham just the other day, with payday firms that they have 12 weeks to shape up; the Labour leader of Birmingham council, working on otherwise it will take severe action. how Birmingham could set out a report and act as a test case for how other cities could do this. T9. [147156] Bridget Phillipson (Houghton and Sunderland South) (Lab): Financing delays are holding up the Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con): In the past, Government’s new schools rebuilding programme. What Chancellors have had to resign if Budgets are leaked. steps is the Minister taking, together with colleagues in Given what happened last year, will the Chief Secretary the Department for Education, to secure financing for tell the House what measures he has put in place to this scheme and to support our construction industry, ensure it does not happen again? which is under real pressure at the moment? Mr Osborne: Of course I want to ensure that the House of Commons is the first to hear the Budget, just Danny Alexander: The House will know that the as it was the first to hear the appointment of the new Department for Education has already announced that Governor of the Bank of England. the first 41 highest priority schools are being funded by direct capital. We will be in a position soon to make a Several hon. Members rose— statement about the rest, and we have announced recently additional investment in school places to expand school Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry to disappoint colleagues, buildings in areas under pressure. All that adds up to an but demand always exceeds supply at Treasury questions. 159 12 MARCH 2013 National Commonwealth Military 160 Day National Commonwealth Military Day to the Crimea—now part of Ukraine—and to gain charity funds, she travelled to the battlefields and financed Motion for leave to bring in a Bill (Standing Order her project herself. Her dedication to saving lives gained No. 23) her prominence in contemporary London, but she was never formally recognised for her contribution and has 12.35 pm only found recognition in recent years. The Mary Seacole Graham Evans (Weaver Vale) (Con): I beg to move, award is an NHS award fund for specific health care projects that aim to improve the health outcomes of That leave be given to bring in a Bill to introduce a national people from black and minority ethnic communities, but day to raise awareness of the contribution of Commonwealth countries in military action of Great Britain and the Overseas her story is less known outside health care professionals. Territories; and for connected purposes. The second example concerns the battle of Saragarhi Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity in 1897. This is a relevant example of a contribution to raise an important issue for many Members of the made and swiftly forgotten. On 12 September, 21 members House. I am grateful for the support I have received and of the 36th Sikhs regiment were guarding the signalling hope to gain more support as I push this project forward. post of Saragarhi between Fort Gulistan and Fort Britain owes a debt of gratitude to the Commonwealth Lockhart when they were besieged by some 10,000 countries and those who have contributed to its military Afghan tribesmen. Saragarhi is recognised by military history. For centuries, that contribution by men and historians as one of the great last stands, with all women, young and old, has shaped the nature of the 21 men choosing to fight to the death. When news of British armed forces and their achievements. Of course, the battle reached this House, so extraordinary was the I am moving this motion on Commonwealth week, and tale and so valiant the actions that the Members in this I am delighted to note all the hard work that goes into Chamber rose to their feet and gave a standing ovation. this celebration, but I would like to push it forward with All the men were posthumously awarded the Indian the formation of a new day. Sometimes unwittingly, Order of Merit, first class, which at the time was the these achievements, and the debt that the nation owes, highest gallantry award given to Indian troops. It was are forgotten. History is written by the victors, they say, not until 1911 that Indian troops qualified for the yet many acts of bravery have disappeared from our Victoria Cross. country’s consciousness, which, I believe, does a disservice More than 4 million men and women from Britain’s to the memories of those who have served and protected colonies volunteered in the first and second world wars. our island nation. For many Members, this is an issue of great pride. The Government need to take more active steps to Indeed, the grandfather of my hon. Friend the Member ensure that we recognise and reward those contributions, for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal), Jawala just as we honour those who are born on these shores. Singh Khela, fought in the still relevant theatre of That is why I propose to create a day to commemorate Basra, in Mesopotamia, in the first world war. contributions made by members of the Commonwealth As many of my hon. Friends will know, some of my in military action. It would be a day to consider not just main interests include British military history, football, the contribution to the world wars, but to look further beer and business. It is therefore of great significance to back, a day for schools to encourage and teach alternative me to bring to the House’s attention the story of Walter accounts of war and a chance for us to draw together Tull. I fully expect his name to come to further prominence communities whose families fought for Britain and this year, as a campaign for recognition of his achievements countries across the globe that still contribute to our is taking place. Although he was born in England to an military and civilian life. English mother, his father was from Barbados. As a This national Commonwealth military day should footballer, he suffered considerable prejudice for his include three distinct commitments. First, I hope for a heritage, playing for Tottenham Hotspur and Northampton ceremony to commemorate these contributions, although Town, before enlisting in the Army at the outbreak of we should not limit our recognition to the two world world war one. Despite the ingrained prejudice that wars. Secondly, I would like to encourage schools to dictated that a man could become an officer only if he take a view of these alternative historical viewpoints was of entirely European descent, Walter Tull became and to take the time to reposition an understanding of just that. how modern Britain has come to take the shape it has. Walter Tull fought and died on the western front Thirdly, I would like the Ministry of Defence to review in 1918, during the last German offensive. He was cases where heroism has been overlooked in a manner recommended for the military cross for his gallantry not befitting the contributions made. To demonstrate and coolness under fire, but the medal was never awarded. the importance of this issue, I shall draw the House’s Ninety-five years on from his death, he has become the attention to examples of bravery and valour that are, unlikely subject of a new play by Michael Morpurgo, sadly, less known than they should be. author of “War Horse”, and there is a petition for him The first figure, who now lies in St Mary’s cemetery in to be finally awarded the recognition he deserves. To Kensal Green, was not a soldier or sailor, did not fight make the argument to review Walter Tull’s case all the with musket or blade and was not a military strategist more compelling, there is now even an ale brewed in his or a straight shooter, but her contribution to the Crimean name by a Northampton brewery. war came from a compulsion to aid the wounded and My initial interest in this issue came many years ago, sick in the face of discrimination. Mary Seacole is often when I visited the largely forgotten western front battlefields known as “the other Florence Nightingale”, but her of 1915 at Loos and Neuve-Chapelle with the late, great dogged determination to care for British troops overcame military historian Professor Richard Holmes. Prime the prejudice ingrained in our society at the time. Rebuffed Minister Harold Macmillan fought and was wounded in her attempts to join the nursing unit that had travelled in the arm at the battle of Loos. Neuve-Chapelle was 161 National Commonwealth Military 12 MARCH 2013 162 Day one of the first organised attacks, in which the Indian Army played a significant part. Today there stands the Opposition Day magnificent and imposing Indian memorial, dedicated to the 4,500 men killed in action and the hundreds of [19TH ALLOTTED DAY] prisoners of war who ended their days in German prisoner of war camps, down coal mines a long way from home. Although the Commonwealth War Graves Commission Tax Fairness does a great job maintaining the Indian memorial, it receives very few visitors, which is a great shame. Mr Speaker: I inform the House that I have selected These are just a few examples of the phenomenal the amendment in the name of the Prime Minister. contributions made to the Britain Isles. I sincerely hope that these lesser known stories will allow us to reflect on 12.44 pm the histories that are less well remembered. To better Chris Leslie (Nottingham East) (Lab/Co-op): I beg to remember how we became the nation we are today, it is move, essential to look at the nation we once were. That is why That this House believes that a mansion tax on properties I believe we should have a day to commemorate the worth over £2 million, to fund a tax cut for millions of people on contribution of Commonwealth countries to British middle and low incomes, should be part of a fair tax system; and military campaigns. calls on the Government to bring forward proposals for such a Question put and agreed to. tax at the earliest opportunity. Ordered, Let us consider the contrast that now exists as a result of Government decisions. Those who are on low and That Graham Evans, Paul Uppal, Rebecca Harris, middle incomes—that is, the vast majority of the British Richard Harrington, Andrew Rosindell, Julian Smith, public—have seen their tax credits cut, their child benefits Keith Vaz, Seema Malhotra, Valerie Vaz, Mr Pat McFadden, squeezed, their cost of living rise as a result of higher Mr Virendra Sharma and Christopher Pincher present VAT and their wages fall in real terms. However, the the Bill. richest 1%, including the lucky few who earn £1 million Graham Evans accordingly presented the Bill. a year, will see an average tax cut of £100,000 in four Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on weeks’ time, and banking executives will not have to pay Friday 26 April, and to be printed (Bill 147). that annoying bonus tax, all thanks to the Chancellor’s generosity.This is a tale of two societies, with hard-working earners on low and middle incomes paying for the Government’s failure to get the economy growing while the richest elite are being rewarded by the Chancellor with a tax cut worth nearly four times the average annual salary. Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): Is it not also a tale of two sides of the House? Will the hon. Gentleman explain why his speech today has proved so popular with Labour Members? Hon. Members: Where are they? Chris Leslie: The hon. Gentleman really needs to focus on the issue at hand. If he is standing up for the millionaires’ tax cut, he should simply say so. It will take effect in about three weeks’ time, and a number of his constituents will be absolutely astonished that he has voted for an average £100,000 tax cut for millionaires while they have lost their tax credits, found themselves paying more and seen a decline in the quality of public services. Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con): I am sure that the massed ranks of the shadow Minister’s colleagues behind him today would like to know whether he will pledge to increase the top rate of tax to 50p in his manifesto. Chris Leslie: We certainly voted against the tax cut, and if we were in government now, we would not be cutting that 50p rate to 45p in April. Heaven only knows what other horrors the Government have in store over the next two years. We do not know what kind of situation we are going to inherit in regard to the deficit and to borrowing, so it is impossible to predict the tax situation that we will be faced with, if and when we inherit that position at the next general election. 163 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 164

Mark Reckless rose— Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD) rose—

Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con) rose— Chris Leslie: I will give way to one of them.

Chris Leslie: I want to make some progress. I will give Mr Leech: Does the hon. Gentleman not accept that way in a moment. when they were in government, Labour Members opposed The divide between the richest and the least well off is our proposal for a mansion tax? It is all very well for getting broader, not narrower, and the situation is getting them to come out in support of it in opposition, but worse. The Government are cutting taxes for one group they never did so in government. this year—the very richest in society—with 13,000 people earning £1 million a year getting a tax cut. That is Chris Leslie: I shall put to one side the fact that the astonishing. Could any other policy better typify the Liberal Democrats said one thing in opposition—about, twisted logic of trickle-down economics than that one? for example, tuition fees—and have done completely the opposite in government. The hon. Gentleman should Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green): I welcome know that circumstances are now getting worse, especially the mansion tax as a step towards equality, but why will given the millionaires’ tax cut which will take effect in not the Opposition go further and tackle the absurdity April. We must do something to revive the fairness of of our council tax rates still being based on 1991 rates? the tax system, and that is why I think it important for A house valued at £1 million in 1991 pays only 0.3% of the Liberal Democrats to stick to their 2010 manifesto its worth, while a house valued at £40,000 pays 2.4%, pledge to introduce which is eight times more. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that that is unfair and should be tackled? “a Mansion Tax at a rate of 1 per cent on properties worth over £2 million, paid on the value of the property above that level.” Chris Leslie: It is important to listen to the Liberal Democrats’ proposal for a mansion tax. They believe that Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con): The hon. Gentleman £2 billion could be raised in that way from properties speaks of fairness. The mansion tax that he proposes worth £2 million or more to help those on low and middle would be profoundly unfair on a great many of my incomes. In our view, any such revenue should fund the constituents who have done nothing more than live in reintroduction of a 10p starting rate of income tax. the same house for several decades in an area which, in terms of its property prices, has changed unrecognisably. I would say to hon. Members, and particularly to That applies to many parts of London. I am amazed Conservative Members who are struggling with the state that London Labour Members do not make similar of the current economic policy, that there are independent points. What the hon. Gentleman proposes is akin to a authorities and budget watchdogs to correct them when they tax on living in London. wrongly assert that growth will not be affected by the cuts and the tax rises and that they are paying down the national debt, but they cannot pull the wool over the eyes Chris Leslie: If the hon. Lady thinks that everyone in of the public, who know what fairness is and who know London lives in a £2 million property, she must be that the choices made so far have been deeply unfair. almost as out of touch as her party’s Chancellor of the Exchequer. Of course there are ways of introducing a Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): Does mansion tax that could take account of the specific my hon. Friend recall that it was the Labour Government circumstances in which people are asset-rich and cash-poor, who introduced the 10p tax? Does he also think that it but there would probably be very few such cases. The would help those in poverty, as well as motorists and Liberal Democrats have thought very carefully about the building industry, if there were a cut in VAT? that particular proposition.

Chris Leslie: That is our view. We want to do more to Gloria De Piero (Ashfield) (Lab): The public constantly help those on lower and middle incomes, and to ask tell us that they hate the infantile, Punch and Judy those privileged and wealthy individuals in society— nature of politics. However, I read in today’s briefing particularly if they have a property worth £2 million or paper from the Liberal Democrats that they will not more—to make a fair contribution. The debate today back us because we have copied them. Is that not presents an opportunity and a challenge to Government exactly the kind of behaviour that turns the public off Members to do the right thing and to back what some politics? of them profess to believe in. Let me remind Members what our motion says. It Chris Leslie: My hon. Friend is entirely right. We asks the House to resolve cannot win. When we oppose the policies advocated by “that a mansion tax on properties worth over £2 million, to fund a the Liberal Democrats, we are attacked, and when we tax cut for millions of people on middle and low incomes, should support those policies, they still attack us. It is difficult be part of a fair tax system; and calls on the Government to bring to know what to do—but I do know that honour and forward proposals for such a tax at the earliest opportunity.” integrity matter to the Liberal Democrats, which is why That is the extent of the motion. It is very simple and I still think that they should join us in the Aye Lobby in straightforward. Liberal Democrats who are in the Chamber a few hours’ time. After all, on 17 February, when asked today—for some are actually present—have repeatedly whether the Liberal Democrats would support this claimed to back a mansion tax. After going along with proposition, the Business Secretary said: the Chancellor’s tax cut for millionaires, a failing economic “It depends entirely how they phrase it. If it is purely a plan, a VAT rise and a trebling of tuition fees, they statement of support for the principle of a mansion tax I’m sure finally have a chance to vote for something that was in my colleagues would want to support it.” their manifesto. We look forward to seeing them in the Lobby. 165 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 166

Mr Nick Gibb (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) Dame Angela Watkinson (Hornchurch and Upminster) (Con): I am waiting to hear the shadow Minister mention (Con): Will the shadow Minister remind the House how that this Government have taken £2.2 million of the much was lost to the Treasury during the period of the lowest earners out of tax altogether. Does Labour’s 50p tax rate, and does he accept that 100% of 45% is support for a mansion tax signal its return to high-tax more than 50% of 50%? policies, and a end to the new Labour project so admirably led by Tony Blair and Peter Mandelson, which transformed Labour into an electable party? Are we now seeing signs Chris Leslie: I am not sure about the hon. Lady’s of a return to the hard left, high-taxing Labour party of maths, but we are still within the period of the 50p rate. the past? Of course we want to see the details of what has been happening. However, while the Conservatives have the notion that for those who are very wealthy, the higher Chris Leslie: No. The hon. Gentleman is in a coalition tax rates are a deterrent and create avoidance, they do with partners, whom he no doubt does not regard as not say the same about the poorest and the middle-income hard lefties, who are advocating the very policy that we families in the rest of the country. They can pay VAT at recommend in our motion. We took the advice of the 20%; they can pay higher taxes. The hon. Lady takes a Business Secretary, a Liberal Democrat, who said “Table view that is taken by so many Conservatives. There is a very simple motion, and we will support it.” According one law for those who are very wealthy, but everyone to any objective measure, even the hon. Gentleman can else must suffer because of the Conservatives’ failure on see that we have held back from party-political rhetoric. revenue and borrowing. The motion is very plain and simple, as requested. We have tried to find some common ground. If those 57 Members of Parliament—and perhaps even some Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): Conservatives; who knows?—were to join us in the Does my hon. Friend not find it strange that the Lobby tonight, that would make the mansion tax a Government do not seem to understand that taxes are reality. an element of economic policy that can be adjusted in line with economic circumstances? During the first period of the Labour Government, the prevailing circumstances Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) meant that there was no case or need for taxes to be (PC): We are minded to support wealth taxes, and we increased, by means of a mansion tax or by any other therefore welcome the motion, but it is a bit thin on means. When the need appeared after the economic detail. Can the shadow Minister reassure me that farmers collapse, compounded by the financial crisis, it became will not be dragged into the new tax because of the value clear that we had to do something, and of course the of their land, and not necessarily because of the value Government did. The trouble with this Government is of their property? that they think policies need not to be adjusted in line with circumstances, but they do need adjusting. Does Chris Leslie: That is an important point. I am glad my hon. Friend not agree with that? that we have the hon. Gentleman’s support on this issue. Obviously there is a difference between residential and Chris Leslie: I agree. It is instructive to observe the corporate arrangements, but our motion says that we different choices that the different parties are making on want the Treasury to bring forward proposals at the this issue. The Conservatives choose to cut taxes for the earliest possible opportunity. We have seen the proposition richest—the millionaires in society—and to increase set out by the Liberal Democrats and used it as the everyone else’s taxes. The Liberal Democrats have said basis for our motion, but let us see what further options that they believe in a mansion tax. Indeed, a fortnight ago can be drawn together. We think that it would be a good the Liberal Democrat leader, the Deputy Prime Minister, idea, for example, for the Chancellor to commission the said: Office for Budget Responsibility to present detailed suggestions of ways in which the arrangements might “Victor Hugo observed that it is near impossible to resist an work. idea once its time has come. Last week, he was again proved right as calls for a mansion tax, first proposed by the Liberal Democrats in 2009, gathered new momentum…I offer certainty: the mansion Neil Carmichael: Will the shadow Minister remind tax, or a version of it, will happen…The Conservatives and the House exactly what the top rate of income tax was opponents of fairer taxes have a choice. They can dig their heels in and remain stuck in the past. Or they can join with the Liberal throughout most of the last Labour Government, and Democrats and the chorus of voices seeking to make our tax give us some insight into to why it was at that level? system fair.” Well, here we are today. What more can we do? The Chris Leslie: After the global financial crisis, we issue is on the table, ready for that momentum to make decided to introduce a 50p top rate of income tax so it happen, so how can the Liberal Democrats resist that that those earning £150,000 and above would make a idea whose time has come? fairer contribution to society as a whole. Those people are the wealthiest 1% in society. How astonishing—how absolutely breathtaking—that in last year’s omnishambles Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD): Is the shadow Minister going of a Budget, the present Chancellor of the Exchequer to acknowledge measures such as the raising of the tax decided to go for the right-wing trickle-down approach threshold, the huge cut in pension tax relief and the and cut the 50p rate to 45p. I hope that that decision huge rise in capital gains tax which have taken place will be reversed in the forthcoming Budget, in respect of under this Government? In a debate entitled “Tax Fairness” which I take it that the hon. Gentleman’s intervention is his proposal really the only measure that his party constituted a representation to the Chancellor. could come up with? 167 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 168

Chris Leslie: The mansion tax is not our only measure, Chris Leslie: We urge all Members, including the hon. but is an important one and we think it is necessary. I Gentleman to whom I am about to give way, to support had thought that the hon. Gentleman supported a that proposition. mansion tax. It is there on the table and it cannot be put in simpler terms—it is a one-line motion. Mr Gibb: Is the hon. Gentleman advocating that a widow with little income who is living in her matrimonial Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab): Is there home and is confronted with a £16,000 tax bill take out not a contrast between the opposition of the Tories, in an equity release scheme mortgage in order to pay it? particular, to a mansion tax and their wholehearted enthusiasm for a bedroom tax? Does that not show the class divide on their side? Chris Leslie: That was one of the solutions that the Deputy Prime Minister suggested. I think it is entirely Chris Leslie: Absolutely, and I think that the contrast possible to find solutions to deal with those rare between the political parties is becoming clear. Let us circumstances. However, I ask the hon. Gentleman: contrast the Government’s approach where they feel what is he saying to all of his constituents who, like they can get away with levying higher and more punitive mine, face having to move out of their properties because costs—the bedroom tax being a classic example—with of the bedroom tax that his Government are introducing the enormous windfall that those earning £1 million a in a few weeks’ time? Many of those people are probably year will be getting from the cut to the top rate of still not aware what charge is going to hit them when the income tax in only a few weeks’ time. It is grotesque. change to housing benefit comes in. He is expecting great upheaval—people having to move house—at one Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): My hon. end of the spectrum but when the Deputy Prime Minister Friend may be aware of current estimates that 60% of comes up with a particular solution his response is, “Oh high-value properties in central London go to overseas no, that is entirely unworkable.” We need to get the buyers, and Conservative MPs, when they are being Treasury and the Office for Budget Responsibility to thoughtful, recognise that that is a serious problem. So think about these things in a detailed way. he is right to look at the issue of high-value property We had hoped that Government Members would taxes and getting a balance. Does he agree that there is support the motion, but what does the Government scope to ensure that the small minority of people who amendment say? I urge hon. Members to pick up their have lived for a long time in areas with escalating Order Paper, turn to the relevant page and just look property values and who are asset-rich but income-poor at the Government amendment—this pantomime can be completely protected within a scheme such as he amendment, whose logic is contorted. It proposes to outlines? delete the whole proposition of a mansion tax and replace it with a pleading defence of the different views Chris Leslie: It is entirely possible to design this held by different parts of the coalition. It would remove scheme in a way that deals with those exceptional the resolve to back a mansion tax and retreat into a circumstances—the Liberal Democrats have said so. It messy fudge as a means—I mix my metaphors—of is an important question that has to be addressed, and brushing the whole issue under the carpet. It is an the Deputy Prime Minister answered it in his “Call amendment that seeks to face both ways yet go nowhere. Clegg” radio slot on London’s Biggest Conversation, It is a push-me, pull-you amendment, and the Government which I know is becoming a popular, regular and welcome should be deeply embarrassed at the drafting, which of fixture in the media diary. He said that individuals in course descends, as we can see, into a general attack on such circumstances might be able to defer payments the Opposition. until the house was sold or to “leverage” the value of the property by remortgaging. I am not sure that that Liberal Democrats need to grow some courage and strategy provides the complete solution to the conundrum, stand up for themselves, for once. This measure is not but I do think that those in the Treasury should turn just a bygone pledge from their now notorious 2010 their minds to how to tackle these rare circumstances. manifesto; the Deputy Prime Minister made it the That is why our motion calls on the Government to bring centrepiece of his leadership in the past few weeks. forward proposals for us to consider in more detail. Kicking off the Eastleigh by-election last month, he called for Mr Rob Wilson (Reading East) (Con): I have been “taxes on mansions, tax cuts for millions”. listening carefully to what the hon. Gentleman has said That is what is in our motion. He said: so far. He seems to have two tax policies that are not yet full commitments, one of which comes from a failed “The mansion tax is an idea whose time has come.” previous Government who brought us to the edge of He said that opponents of it should economic collapse and the other of which comes from “join with the Liberal Democrats…seeking to make our tax the Liberal Democrats. Is that really a great recipe for system fair.” success on economic policy? Indeed, others have joined in that chorus. Chris Leslie: I do not think the hon. Gentleman On this Sunday’s “The Andrew Marr Show” Lord should be so partisan; he should look at the issues on Ashdown said it would be “weird”if the Liberal Democrats their merits, as we have tried to do in our motion. We did not vote in favour of the tax. The “Sunday Politics” have stripped out all that party political rhetoric and had an interview with the Lib Dem president, the hon. put clearly on the table the proposition, “This House Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron), supports the principle of a mansion tax.” in which an interesting exchange took place. Andrew Neil said: Mr Gibb rose— “It’s a simple motion. Will you vote for it?” 169 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 170

The hon. Gentleman said: Oakeshott, who, as we know, is a leading light in the “Well, let’s say, I mean, when all’s said and done, that is pretty Liberal Democrat firmament, argues against council much Liberal Democrat policy”. tax banding as one way of approaching the question. Andrew Neil then asked: He says: “Well, what part of that motion do you disagree with?” “If you just put on one or two council tax bands, you can’t The hon. Gentleman said, “None of it.” make the superrich pay their fair share”. Some Conservative Members, such as the hon. Member Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb), complain agree that the Liberal Democrats are in danger of being that a mansion tax is impractical, that it cannot be done highly consistent? Having been against tuition fees they and that it would be an administrative nightmare, but I voted for them; having been against a bombshell VAT simply refer them to their own Front Benchers. Unbeknown increase they voted for it; and now they appear to be for to most Government Members, Her Majesty’s Treasury a mansion tax but are going to vote against it. is, with very little fanfare, actively talking about the viability of an annual charge on high-value residential Chris Leslie: I hope that my hon. Friend is not properties and launched a consultation document last accusing the Liberal Democrats of consistency in their May entitled, “Ensuring the fair taxation of residential inconsistency—that would be a step too far. property transactions”. It contains a whole chapter about introducing an annual charge, as the Treasury Caroline Lucas: The hon. Gentleman is talking about calls it, as part of the regime to tackle the avoidance of courage, so I wonder how far the official Opposition’s tax on high-value residential properties, albeit for properties courage will go. Some £4.5 trillion is kept by the top enveloped in non-natural person terms—in other words, 10% of wealthiest households, so the £2 billion that would those owned by a company or by partnerships or investment be raised by a mansion tax, although welcome, is a tiny vehicles. amount and would hardly bridge the chasm between Let me draw the attention of the House to some the super-rich and the poorest. Given that, would the sections of that Treasury publication, because it suggests official Opposition support a genuine wealth tax? that a mansion tax is entirely feasible. On page 8, it states: Chris Leslie: I would be very interested to see the “The aim of the new annual charge is both to deter avoidance hon. Lady’s proposition, but I do not think it is necessary and to ensure the owners of high value residential property pay to go for that general approach that she takes. I say that their fair share of tax…The annual charge will be introduced in because there are targeted ways in which we could try to Finance Bill 2013.” build consensus on a property tax for high-value properties over £2 million and then use the revenue to help the vast So, the measure is coming in the forthcoming Finance majority of lower-income and middle-income families. Bill at the other side of the Budget. The document That is the proposition before us today. states: “The interest to which the charge will apply will be the freehold Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab): It was interesting or leasehold interest” to hear the remark by the Green Member of Parliament and that the annual charge will be about the wealth tax and being brave. I looked at the list “applied separately to the freehold (if valued over £2 million) and of candidates who stood at Eastleigh, where I thought the leasehold (if valued over £2 million…)”. it would be wide open for a Green to find a way through, and found that the party did not even put up a It goes on to state that the value of the property interest candidate—what courage! is proposed to be the value determined on 1 April 2012 and, interestingly—let us remember that the document Chris Leslie: We digress slightly, but that is an interesting comes from the Treasury—states: observation. I did not realise that the Green party had “Property valuations for the annual charge will be self-assessed fled from that Eastleigh by-election. by the persons liable to the charge and submitted to HMRC as part of their annual charge tax return. HMRC will have powers to Mr Robinson: Before we leave the subject of the enquire into returns and also to make assessments so that non- hapless Liberals and consistency, does my hon. Friend compliance can be effectively challenged… Properties will be re-valued every five years…The valuation required will be an agree that they do show consistency in their inconsistency assessment of the ‘market value’”. and in their insincerity—that is the only consistency we can identify? It even goes on to give a helpful list of four bands of annual charge on properties worth more than £2 million. Chris Leslie: There is time for those sinners to repent, The Treasury knows in its heart of hearts—I do not and I hope that in three hours’ time they will re-examine know whether it has shared this with hon. Members—that the motion, seriously consider the outrageous stretch the concept of a mansion tax has some feasibility. in the amendment, stick with their principles and support the motion. I accept that there is a need to flesh out the Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab): That is tremendously details of how the mansion tax arrangement would be welcome news, because clearly neither of the Government designed. We need to commission the Treasury and the parties will vote for the amendment. I understand that OBR to work on those particular details. the amendment suggests that the Liberal Democrats are Some have suggested building on existing property in favour of the mansion tax but will vote against the tax systems, although that is not wholly straightforward. motion whereas the Conservatives are definitely against In New York City, apparently, a £2 million property it so will on no account be voting for it. If they are both owner can pay about £22,000 of property tax, but Lord in favour of the tax, they can just support our motion. 171 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 172

Chris Leslie: I hope that the scales will fall from their The 10p starting rate would provide a tax incentive to eyes and they will see the light, but I do not know enter work, especially for those on lower wages. It was a whether they will. mistake to remove the 10p rate in 2007, even though it enabled the then 22p basic rate to be reduced to 20p, Mr Rob Wilson rose— where it stands today. Reintroducing a 10p rate would be the right thing to do and, if the Liberal Democrats are correct that the mansion tax could raise £2 billion, Chris Leslie: Perhaps the hon. Gentleman is changing the Chancellor could make that change next week in the his mind because of the weight of my argument. Budget. Mr Wilson: The hon. Gentleman is being very generous Just as there is support for a mansion tax from Members and I thank him for giving way a second time. He might on the Government Benches, there is ample support for not remember that the Liberal Democrat proposals for the return of a 10p starting rate for income tax, although a council tax were at one stage for properties worth over strangely some of those Members have chosen not to £1 million, not £2 million. Is not the concern that a take their place in the Chamber today. The hon. Member Labour Government, desperate to raise tax, would row for Harlow (Robert Halfon) spoke about the 10p rate back to £1.5 million or £1 million? Can he give a idea in his recent Adjournment debate, arguing that cast-iron guarantee that there would be no rowing “restoring the 10p rate would help the coalition to counter the backwards from a figure of £2 million? war cry of its political opponents that it is only interested in cutting taxes for millionaires. It would prove to the public that ‘lower taxes for lower earners’ is not just a soundbite but that it Chris Leslie: Absolutely. That is not our proposal, as can be a reality…the policy would be popular…it would be a we think that it is possible to develop a mansion tax symbol of the Government’s economic mission and…it would proposition for properties worth £2 million and above. help to tackle the desperate stagnation in incomes that Britain has We could develop and build on the Treasury’s suggestions suffered”.—[Official Report, 22 January 2013; Vol. 557, c. 34-38WH.] for how it might work and we hope also to build on the That argument was made by a Conservative Member. carefully thought through calculations made by the Liberal Democrats. Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD): The hon. Gentleman is right that the previous Government were Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): mistaken to scrap the 10p rate, but under this Government Would my hon. Friend like to speculate on why the the income that would previously have been charged Government chose not to refer to the Treasury document at the 10p rate is now charged at a 0p rate. If he in their amendment? supports the increases in the personal allowance, why is support for those increases totally absent from his motion Chris Leslie: Let us be realistic: the amendment was in a debate on tax fairness? getting rather long-winded, as it is about four or five times the length of the motion. In fact, it looks like a bit Chris Leslie: We wanted to focus on the mansion tax of a trashing exercise and does not add to the substance proposition, because the hon. Gentleman’s Business of policy choices before the House. Our view is that the Secretary suggested that we keep the motion simple and circumstances are very simple. that if we did so, the Liberal Democrats would support it. That is what the Business Secretary said. We support Mr Jim Cunningham: My hon. Friend has been very the changes to the personal allowance, but in our view it generous in giving way. Does he think that now the is important to have that graduated step up. People go Liberal Democrats have been exposed they are probably from the zero rate to the 20p rate and it is important to holding off from voting against our proposals tonight consider introducing a more graduated step as a work but that when the Government bring forward their incentive, which is something we ought to have in the proposals, the Liberal Democrats will be in the Lobby system. with them? Duncan Hames: Why does the hon. Gentleman think Chris Leslie: Especially on issues such as the bedroom that a 10p tax rate is a greater incentive to go into work tax, tax credit cuts and increase in VAT. Of course, let than a 0p tax rate? us not forget the tuition fee decisions that the Liberal Democrats have made. That is a matter for them, however. Chris Leslie: The hon. Gentleman seems to think it is They must account to the electorate and they must go all or nothing, but we think that a progressive tax system back and explain how they have voted today. argument needs to be developed. If people move from paying zero tax straight to 20p, there is a cliff edge. We Let me say a little about how we would use the money think it is important to consider smoothing the transition raised from the mansion tax. Our view is that a fair tax to work and making work pay more effectively. That is system should include a 10p starting rate of income tax. not part of the motion; it is our preference for what we We support the increases in the personal allowance, but would do with the revenues from the mansion tax. a 10p band would mean a different tax rate for those on middle and lower incomes from that for those on higher incomes, helping the move towards a fairer tax system. Duncan Hames rose— Some argue that the 20p rate is adequate, but I believe that a steadier incline moving from zero tax to 10p and Chris Leslie: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman from 10p to 20p could be the bedrock of a more once more, if he wants to say whether he agrees with progressive tax system, sending out an important signal the text of our motion—not the flim-flam about the that tax cuts for working people are a priority. amendment. Does he agree with the text of our motion? 173 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 174

Duncan Hames: I will be voting for the amendment; the motion is an opportunity, especially for the Liberal it states Liberal Democrat policy, which I support. The Democrats, to tell the Government that they need to hon. Gentleman has accepted that he wants to do rebalance their priorities. something very different from us with his mansion tax, and on that basis I am not happy to support him. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the hon. Gentleman for introducing an admirable motion. Does Chris Leslie: What more can I say? I thought the hon. he agree that it is not just about tax cuts for millions of Gentleman supported the proposition in our motion, people on middle and low incomes, but that it could but clearly he does not. However cynical and defensive also be an incentive for first-time buyers to get on to the he may feel, Liberal Democrats should at least acknowledge first rung of the ladder? They do not want to buy a that a principle of fair taxation is at stake today, and mansion, just a first house. Should the money be used that it ought to transcend party differences as we try to for that too? create a more just society. Chris Leslie: The hon. Gentleman makes an important Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): Does point about finding ways to help those who aspire to my hon. Friend share my fear that the Liberal Democrats own their home. I am certainly interested in discussing may become an endangered political species? Before options for how that might be achieved, because it is 2010, they were very popular in Swansea but following important. It is becoming very difficult for people in the tuition fees, VAT and deep cuts turnaround, they those circumstances. They are the home owners that we lost the council. If they do not support the mansion tax, really need to focus on. It is amazing that so many which was part of their manifesto, does he not think Government Members want to defend the massive super- there is a real danger that we will never see them again wealth of those with properties of £2 million and above. in the political sphere? All we want is that they pay their fair share, as the motion states in plain and simple terms. We are giving a timely pre-Budget opportunity for the House to express Chris Leslie: It would be a great loss for the House support for or opposition to a mansion tax as to lose some of the skills and contributions of Liberal Democrat Members. Perhaps at our next Opposition “part of a fair tax system.” day debate a Liberal Democrat protection order should It could not be more straightforward. The country is be on the agenda. They may cling on in a number of crying out for a tax system that focuses on helping the ways in different places. majority of the public and ensures that the wealthiest I am surprised that the Liberal Democrats do not 1% pay their fair share. support the mansion tax proposition. It is hardly surprising First and foremost, Government Members have a that Conservatives do not support the idea. After all, duty to their constituents, who will be astonished if half of them are in politics to defend the wealth of the their MP flunks this opportunity to make real change wealthiest, and the other half will probably need to because they are suppressing their principles in a bid to declare an interest before they speak on the issue. cling on to power. Let us consider the mansion tax in relation to the other tax benefits that the richest 1% receive. If the Lib Mr Gibb rose— Dem design for a mansion tax were to be enacted, it would just recoup a mere fraction of the money being Mr Speaker: I do not think the hon. Member for given away to high net worth individuals in the millionaires’ Nottingham East is giving way; he has completed his tax cut from April—the first of too many examples of speech. I call Mr David Gauke. unfairness. In the last Budget, the Chancellor took the decision to hit pensioners with the so-called granny tax, which is more accurately described as a freeze on the 1.25 pm old age personal allowance and has caused widespread disgust, especially because the Government chose to use The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David the money to fund a cut in the higher rate of income Gauke): I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from tax. That is not fair and it is not right, and it certainly “House” to the end of the Question and add: should not be part of the society we want to build. Even ‘notes that this Coalition Government has cut income tax for Liberal Democrats must know that it is deeply resented 25 million people, taking over 2.2 million low income individuals across the country, yet the Government continue to out of income tax altogether, while at the same time increasing clobber lower and middle-income families, whether by taxes on the wealthy, including raising stamp duty on expensive freezing the maternity pay of new parents, taking child properties and restricting tax reliefs; further notes that both parts benefit away in a fiendishly complex tax assessment of the Coalition continue to support tax cuts for people on low process or reducing the value of the tax credits on and middle incomes; notes that the part of the Coalition led by which so many working people rely. They cannot even the Deputy Prime Minister also advocates a mansion tax on properties worth more than £2 million, as set out in his party’s ensure that the money men pay their fair share, with a manifesto, and the part of the Coalition led by the Prime Minister bank levy that for two years running has undershot the does not advocate a mansion tax; and further notes that the top supposed target of £2.5 billion that the Chancellor rate of income tax will be higher under this Government than claimed it would collect. under any year of the previous administration and that the rich are now paying a higher percentage of income tax than at any On maternity pay, the bedroom tax and the cuts to time under the previous administration, demonstrating that it tax credits, the Government have their priorities all presided over an unfair tax system where the rich paid less and the wrong. They are handing a tax cut to millionaires when poor paid more in tax than now, meaning nobody will trust the millions of hard-working families pay more. Voting for Opposition’s promises on tax fairness.’. 175 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 176

[Mr David Gauke] operation than the 45p rate is that he knows, as I do, that millionaires can move their money between tax After listening to the speech of the hon. Member for years? As the rate only runs for one year, they will move Nottingham East (Chris Leslie), we might have thought their money to the lower tax year. He would raise more that it was the last Labour Government who increased money if he kept the 50p going. It is a con for his mates. stamp duty land tax to 7% on residential properties costing £2 million or more. We might have thought it Mr Gauke: There are two points. It is correct that the was Labour who introduced a 15% rate of stamp duty wealthy are often able to move income from one year to for properties owned through a corporate vehicle. We another, but the conclusion that HMRC and the Office might have thought that it was the last Government for Budget Responsibility reached is that even taking who imposed a cap on reliefs, limiting the extent to into account the forestalling effect, the behavioural which the wealthy can drive down their tax rate, and we consequences of the 50p rate were so significant that it might have thought it was the last Government who barely raised any revenue. That is the reality. It even deployed more resources to Her Majesty’s Revenue and takes into account the hon. Gentleman’s point about Customs to tackle evasion and avoidance, and closed forestalling. That approach has been confirmed by the down loopholes such as disguised remuneration that OBR. The 50p rate failed. cost the Exchequer nearly £1 billion a year. We might also have thought that the Labour Government Anas Sarwar (Glasgow Central) (Lab): The message had introduced the 50p rate of income tax in their first that the Government have repeated over and over again Budget, not their 13th. We might have thought it was is that we are all in this together. Take the example of the Labour Government who had taken more than families in my constituency who live just one mile apart. 2 million low-paid earners out of income tax by raising One has been handed a tax cut as a result of the the personal allowance. scrapping of the 50p tax rate. One mile in the other Whatever the differences that may exist on the direction families will be handed a food parcel. Does Government Benches, and there are differences on this the Minister think that is fair? matter, one thing is very clear. The Opposition are in no position to lecture the two parties on the Government Mr Gauke: Let us look at what was in the last Budget Benches about how to put in place a fair tax system that in respect of stamp duty and the cap on reliefs. We provides support to working people and taxes the wealthy could also look at what we have done with regard to effectively. capital gains tax. The independent Institute for Fiscal Studies has made it clear that the top 20% are affected Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): At Treasury most by the fiscal consolidation policies that have been questions, one of the Minister’s colleagues said that the pursued in this Parliament. Those with broadest shoulders Government are focused on the causes of poverty. Can are bearing the greatest burden. However, we have an the Minister tell me how many of his millionaire friends enormous deficit that we have to get down—a deficit getting a huge tax cut this year are actually pleading that we inherited from the Opposition. poverty? Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Will my hon. Mr Gauke: In the last Budget package we increased Friend confirm that the highest rate of income tax taxes on the wealthy—higher rates of stamp duty, closing currently under this Government is higher than was the loopholes and putting a cap on reliefs. That is getting case in the previous Government’s 13 years, all bar the far more money from the wealthiest than a 50p rate that last couple of weeks? failed to do what income tax is supposed to do, which is raise funds to pay for public services. It did not do that. Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend is right. The Labour Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): One of the reliefs Government were in office for 4,758 days. For all but 36 that has been reduced is on 40p tax, which went down of those days, the highest rate of income tax was at 40p. from £37,000 to £34,000 and then to £32,000 this year. Then it moved to 50p. There is a good question to ask The Minister has squeezed the genuine middle class—the the Opposition about why they kept it at 40p for so people earning just over £40,000—not the £400,000 a long. Why did they leave it until the fag-end of their year middle class. That bit of cynicism will never be Government, when it was clear that they would not be forgotten by those people. in government any more? The reason is that the 50p rate, predictably enough, did not do what it was supposed Mr Gauke: I am afraid the hon. Gentleman is wrong. to do. It did not raise revenue, and an income tax that People earning just over £40,000 have seen tax cuts and does not raise revenue is not something that a sensible a reduction in the total amount of income tax they pay, Government would persevere with. because the personal allowance has increased to more I turn to the mansion tax. than compensate them. The higher-rate threshold has not increased as it might have done, because higher-rate Geraint Davies: Will the Minister give way? taxpayers would gain more from the personal allowance than basic rate tax payers. Someone on between £40,000 Mr Gauke: No. I shall make a little progress, devastating and £44,000 a year is paying less income tax as a though the hon. Gentleman’s interventions so often are. consequence of the Government’s policies than they would have done otherwise. We have always been quite clear that the proposed mansion tax is an issue on which the two parties in the Geraint Davies: Will the Minister take this opportunity coalition have differing views. Our Liberal Democrat to confess that the reason why the Treasury predicts less colleagues have supported the principle for some time. I will be generated by the 50p rate in the one year of its am sure that the Under-Secretary of State for Communities 177 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 178 and Local Government, my right hon. Friend the Member On very valuable properties, it was all too easy for for Bath (Mr Foster) will make that clear when he winds people to arrange their affairs thorough corporate vehicles up the debate. In contrast, Conservative Ministers have and not pay stamp duty.In the last Budget this Government very real concerns over such a proposal. We have concerns introduced measures that will deal with that enveloping that a third of the properties in London worth more and deal with one of the unfairnesses in our tax system. than £2 million have been in the same ownership for One of the ways in which we are going to do that, as over 10 years, and that a mansion tax could hit asset-rich well as a high stamp duty charge for properties held in but potentially income-poor households, a point made corporate vehicles, is to bring in an annual residential by my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea (Jane property tax. That is focused only on properties worth Ellison). more than £2 million held by a corporate vehicle. It would apply to only 6,000 properties, we estimate. It is a Dame Angela Watkinson: My hon. Friend will know very narrowly focused policy that will enable us to deal that £2 million does not buy a mansion in London, and with an area of avoidance that was allowed to carry on certainly not in outer London, where I have a number for far too long under Labour. of constituents who moved out from inner London decades ago. Their homes have increased in value beyond Caroline Lucas: As a tax that is much harder to evade their wildest dreams over a very long period, but they or avoid, there is the land value tax. That is supported are in fact cash-poor, quite often living on a modest by one half of the coalition and by the OECD and the pension. The thought of paying very large amounts of IMF. The IFS has said that the case for a land value tax tax every year for the privilege of owning a home that is overwhelming because it is much fairer. Given that they have had for many years would be extremely that is the case, can the Minister explain why his frightening. Can the Minister think of any practical Government will not even do some basic research into way that an elderly person in that position could possibly it, as my private Member’s Bill requested? pay that tax?

Mr Gauke: I noticed that that very point was one that Mr Gauke: We are left with the same issues of complexity the hon. Member for Nottingham East seemed to struggling of valuation across the board, and the issues of the with. He seemed to suggest that there were ways in asset-rich, cash poor. That is why my part of the coalition which the Opposition would address that. I am not sure is not keen to proceed with that matter, but it is worth whether that was included in the costings they have pointing out that we are raising more money from property. produced. There is an issue for the asset-rich, cash-poor There is a stamp duty land tax of 7% on residential which would need to be addressed in the design and properties costing £2 million or more, a policy that is would obviously have an impact on the costing. easy to administer and will not impact on existing home owners. Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): Would the On the mansion tax, we have made no secret of the Minister suggest to people in those circumstances that fact that the two parties disagree. If we did not disagree they might want to take a lodger, just as it has been on some things, we would be one party, not two. But in suggested to my 60-year-old constituent that the answer the circumstances that we are in, it has been perfectly to the bedroom tax is to take a lodger? possible for two parties to work together in a sensible and mature way and to reach agreement on a host of Mr Gauke: I am not going to debate at length the measures that have made our tax system fairer, easier to spare room subsidy, which is an area of public spending understand and competitive. We heard much from the constraint that we need to engage in. There is a genuine hon. Member for Nottingham East to the effect that we issue in respect of the asset-rich, cash-poor that the should do more to help low income workers. May I just hon. Member for Nottingham East appeared to recognise remind him and House of the progress that we have and which would have to be addressed. made in raising the personal allowance? In 2010, someone The mansion tax would be administratively burdensome on £6,500 was paying income tax at 20%. From next for HMRC to operate, not to mention intrusive for the month, someone has to earn £9,440 before paying any person having their home inspected. We would have income tax at all. Our measures on the personal allowance concerns that in Labour’s hands, the starting level for have provided a huge tax cut for millions of people and such a tax would not stay at £2 million for very long. will take more than 2.2 million of the lowest earners out What began as a mansion tax would soon become a of income tax altogether. In fact, over the course of this homes tax. To coin a phrase, it would become a tax for Parliament, someone working full time on the national the many, not for the few. minimum wage will have seen their income tax bill cut in half. Chris Leslie: I am surprised the Minister thinks that Let us contrast our record with that of our predecessors. “the many” own properties worth £2 million and above. Let us remember that when the right hon. and absent I wanted to ask him about the Treasury’s own proposition Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) that residential properties of £2 million and above, did his last Budget, rather than cut taxes for the working albeit owned by a company, should have an annual poor, he increased them. People talk about the scrapping charge based on a self-assessed valuation, with a banding of the 10p rate, but Labour did not scrap it, they process. Is he saying that his own policy is administratively doubled it. They turned it into a 20p rate. For example, burdensome? someone earning £9,000 a year in 2007 would have heard a Labour Chancellor stand up and announce that Mr Gauke: Let us be clear. One of the weaknesses in a Labour Government were going to increase their the tax system that we inherited was the fact that people income tax bill by more than £200. Last year, someone were able to walk around the paying of stamp duty. on £9,000 a year would have heard a Conservative 179 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 180

[Mr Gauke] just as there was no credibility or consistency in their treatment of low-paid workers. In government, they Chancellor stand up and announce that a coalition raised the rate of income tax; in opposition, they make Government were going to take them out of income tax promises that they will cut it. When we remember the altogether. Our constituents on £9,000 a year will soon be reality, why should those on low incomes ever trust paying no income tax at all, saving more than £500 since Labour again? the coalition came to power. Labour turned a 10p rate of income tax into a 20p rate. This coalition has turned Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD): In terms of a 20p rate into a 0p rate. fairness of taxation, another area where this Government have done a great job is on fuel duty. The fuel duty is Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): now 10p a litre lower on the mainland and 15p a litre Will the Minister remind the House what he did in lower on islands than it would have been if the Labour terms of the personal allowance for pensioners? Am I party had still been in power. I hope that my hon. Friend not correct in saying that he froze that? will continue that good work and that in the Budget there will be an announcement that the September fuel Mr Gauke: There is no particularly sensible reason duty increase inherited from Labour will not go ahead. why there should be a different personal allowance for someone who is 64, compared with 65 or 75. It is clearly Mr Gauke: I will take that as a Budget representation. a simpler and, I believe, fairer system that one personal It is perhaps worth pointing out that there was a measure allowance should apply to everybody. That was never that the previous Labour Government had to reduce an option available to the Labour party because the the deficit, which was substantial increases in fuel duty main personal allowance for someone under the age of over the course of this Parliament. That is a measure 65 was so low. We have been able to increase it substantially that we have been able to stop, and quite right too. so that one personal allowance can apply to everybody. That is a simpler and fairer way to deal with that issue. At the same time, we have increased pensions, thanks to Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) the triple lock guarantee, by much more than we would (Lab): Will the Minister explain why four out of five have done if we had stuck with the plans that we people feel that austerity is not working? Is it related to inherited. Last year, pensioners saw their biggest increase the downgrading of the economy yet again for 2013? Is in the state pension. it the shrinking of the economy in the last quarter of last year by 0.9%? Or is it that the OBR had to call the Mr Gibb: While my hon. Friend is on the subject of Prime Minister to task and give him an economics the last Labour Government, he will recall that in 2009-10, lesson? the last financial year of the last Labour Government, expenditure exceeded income by £159 billion, equal to Mr Gauke: This is a difficult time for all major 11% of the whole country’s income. Since he has been a economies, and the UK is no exception. But matters Minister at the Treasury, have civil servants explained to would be much worse if we were to abandon our desire him why that was allowed to happen, virtually bankrupting to bring some control to the public finances. We must this country? ensure that there is the political will to deal with the public finances, and that is what this Government will Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend makes a very good point. continue to demonstrate. The approach of ignoring the There is no explanation that civil servants can give for deficit, believing that this is all an issue that can be that. An explanation and an apology are due from the addressed at some future time, is economically irresponsible Opposition, but we await either of those. I think that and unfair on future generations who will face the bill they persist in the view that there was no structural that they will have to pick up because we failed to deficit even before the crash— address those problems now.

Chris Leslie rose— Geraint Davies: Is this not also about fairness? For instance, while the threshold changes that he has mentioned Mr Gauke: If we are to have confirmation that there of £3,000, which deliver a saving of £11.50 a week to was a structural deficit before the financial crash, I will taxpayers, cost £9 billion, he will save half a billion pounds happily give way to the hon. Gentleman. from inflicting that £11.50 on people for the empty bedroom tax. With a small amount of the money used Chris Leslie: There was certainly a global financial to raise the tax threshold, he could have alleviated that crisis. But can the Minister confirm that under the current for the very poorest. Is not this about values and not Chancellor of the Exchequer, national debt has risen inflicting the most hardship on the most poor while from £811 billion to £1 trillion 111 billion? Is it actually giving a bung to the voters? the case that debt has risen by that much? Yes or no? Mr Gauke: I take it from what the hon. Gentleman Mr Gauke: Debt is the accumulation of deficits. We says that rather than raise the personal allowance, he inherited the largest deficit in our peacetime history, would prefer us to spend more on the welfare bill. If and every measure that we have taken to reduce that that is the hon. Gentleman’s position, fair enough, but I deficit the Opposition have opposed, and then they do not agree. Raising the personal allowance, taking complain that debt is rising. That is the most absurd people out of income tax, and making sure that work position. We are criticised for not borrowing enough, pays, are all things that a sensible Government should and then we are criticised for our debt going up. There do, and I am delighted that this coalition Government is no consistency or credibility in the Opposition’s position, areabletodothat. 181 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 182

I come now to the taxation of those on highest that the Conservatives are coming round to the Liberal incomes, on which we have already touched. The top Democrat view that we should consider introducing a 1% of taxpayers, those with incomes of over £150,000 a local income tax as an alternative for financing local year, will pay more than a quarter of all income tax, authorities? while the top 5% of taxpayers, those with income of £68,000 or more, will pay nearly half of income tax. We Mr Gauke: No, I think my hon. Friend would be agree that it is important that we create a tax system wrong to reach that conclusion from what I have said. that ensures that those who earn the most contribute There is an interesting debate on the balance between the most, but it is also important that we create a tax property and income taxes, however, and I note his system that works. Among other things, that means a suggestion in that context. tax system that does not damage our economy by May I now return to the topic of the 50p rate, as I undermining our international competitiveness. know the hon. Member for Nottingham East likes to The Government inherited a top rate of tax at 50p, a focus on it? The Opposition may think that in this day rate that our predecessors, who this afternoon have and age 50p is the least the wealthy should pay in income painted themselves as the party of taxing the rich more, tax. I want to put to them the question raised earlier by had put in place for just 36 of their 4,758 days in power. my hon. Friend the Member for West Worcestershire The rate that they left us with was the highest top rate (Harriett Baldwin). In less than four weeks the 50p rate amongst major economies. The last Labour Chancellor will have gone. The additional rate will be 45p. Will had made it clear that it was temporary. It was also very Labour seek to reverse that? I am happy to take an clear that it was having an immediate impact on our intervention on this point. Will Labour seek to reverse competitiveness. that after the next election? Let me say something that I hope is not controversial: the principal purpose of income tax is to raise revenue. Chris Leslie: The Minister is asking the Opposition So we commissioned HMRC to analyse just how effective what is going to happen in two years’ time, but can he the 50p rate was in raising revenue. tell us what will happen in next week’s Budget? That HMRC report, laid before the House, set out Mr Gauke: That is very amusing, but of course I am thorough and compelling evidence on the impact of the not going to do so. I am fairly confident, however, that 50p rate. It showed that the rate was uncompetitive, at the next general election the Conservative party will distortive and inefficient. Not only did it not raise much not be advocating a 50p rate of income tax. The hon. revenue, but it could even have cost the Exchequer Gentleman is calling for a 50p rate of income tax, money when the indirect impacts on other taxes were however. He will not tell us why. He is now saying, taken into account. This Government were not prepared “Well, we don’t know what the economic circumstances to maintain a rate of income tax that was both ineffective will be.” That is fair enough, but does he think that his at raising money and that left us with the highest party will make a manifesto commitment at the next statutory rate of income tax in the G20, so we acted, in general election to introduce a mansions tax? Is that a the interests of the country, and the top rate of tax will commitment? I am happy to give way again. fall to 45p from April this year. This will see our top rate of tax drop below that of Australia, Germany, Japan Chris Leslie: It is very simple: now, in 2013, we can and Canada, which will send a signal to businesses see the deficit rising and getting worse and we can see taking decisions on investment and location that the borrowing increasing, growth flat-lining and living standards UK is a competitive environment. falling, and the Minister is asking us to predict what we are going to do in two years’ time. How on earth do we Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con): know what other horrors are in next week’s Budget box Has the Minister seen the KPMG report that states that or, heaven forfend, in the spending review of 26 June? Britain’s competitiveness is better than that of Switzerland Can he tell us what is in that spending review? and the United States and that that is a consequence of the measures taken by the Government? Mr Gauke: This is starting to get interesting, because we have now learned that the Labour party has moved a Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend is absolutely right to raise motion trying to persuade Liberal Democrats to vote in that point in the context of the changes we have made support of a mansion tax, yet Labour will not confirm to our corporate tax system. In 2009 KPMG commissioned whether it thinks a mansion tax is a sensible policy for a survey of tax professionals, asking them to name the the next Parliament. The position of the Liberal Democrats three most competitive countries. The UK was nominated is clear and the position of the Conservatives is clear; by just 16% of respondents. In 2012 KPMG undertook what is not clear is whether the Labour party do, after the same survey and the UK was nominated by 72% of all, support a mansion tax. Will it be in its manifesto? respondents. That is a dramatic change, which we are That is a perfectly clear question. proud of, and it will help our economy grow. We have also had the courage to reduce the 50p rate, which will Debbie Abrahams rose— help our competitiveness, too. Mr Gauke: I will give way to the hon. Lady, and she Andrew George (St Ives) (LD): One thing we do know can tell us whether she thinks that ought to be in the is that mansions cannot emigrate if the tax rate goes up. manifesto. Earlier my hon. Friend the Minister said that the problem with the mansion tax is that it becomes a home tax. Debbie Abrahams: The Minister is being very generous Does he agree that the council tax is also a home tax, in giving way, but I want to ask him what his Government and may I understand from what he has been saying are doing. I tabled a written parliamentary question to 183 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 184

[Debbie Abrahams] was 37% before that dip. We then had the fiscal stimulus thanks to our friend Mr Obama and my right hon. his Department asking about the average tax rates for Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath different groups of people, and he may be astounded to (Mr Brown), which got us back to some fragile growth know—as I am sure many of my constituents in Oldham moving into 2010, but then the Tories came to power. will be—that 6% of people on incomes over £10 million I also have a graph showing that two thirds of the pay under 10% income tax. What is he doing to address deficit —the green bit—is from the bankers and the that inequity? other third is the Government spending above their earnings in order to pump-prime, to avoid a depression Mr Gauke: That is exactly why in the last Budget this and deliver a mild recession and a prosperous future for Government brought in a cap on reliefs preventing the Britain. What happened? Obviously, George Osborne wealthy from driving down their tax rate to such levels— came along, announced that half a million people would something the Labour party never did in 13 years in be sacked but he did not say who they were, so public government. I note, however, that I get no answers to servants stopped spending— my question. Let us be clear: we hear lots of complaints about the Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Please 50p rate being reduced to 45p, but we get no indication refer to the Chancellor by his title, not his name. as to whether the Labour party would or would not reverse that if they were to win the next election. I can Geraint Davies: Exactly.The Chancellor, no less, decided only assume that that is because deep down they know to announce that half a million people would be sacked that campaigning on 50p might look good on a leaflet but did not say who they were, so people stopped but is lousy for the economy; after all, that seemed to be spending and started saving, consumer confidence fell Labour’s approach when it was in government. We have and the economy has been flatlining ever since. also learned this afternoon that the Labour party is not committed to a mansion tax in the next Parliament, Mel Stride: The hon. Gentleman refers to employment. after all. So what do we have? We have opportunism on Does he recognise the fact that there are 1 million new the 50p rate and opportunism on the mansion tax. private sector jobs net, unemployment is falling and the Several hon. Members rose— level of employment, which is currently about 30 million, is the highest on record? Mr Gauke: I am going to press on. This is what we have seen from the Labour party, Geraint Davies: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman therefore: we have a party that increases the tax rates on for that intervention. If 1 million more people are in the low-paid and then lectures a Government who take work but there is zero growth—in other words, there the low-paid out of income tax; we have a party that is has been no overall increase in production—that implies in uproar at our reducing the additional rate of income that people who had been in full-time jobs are now in tax to 45p but that will not promise to reverse it; and we part-time jobs and that aggregate production has not have a party that did little, or nothing, to tax expensive increased, which is a complete failure. It is symptomatic properties more now being converted to a mansion tax of Tory Britain, with people scratching around for for the purposes of this afternoon’s vote for transparently anything they can find in difficult times. political reasons, but refusing to confirm that it will be There has been some discussion of the 50p rate of their policy at the next election. That is pathetic. It tax. As I have mentioned, the reason the Treasury is insincere, it lacks any semblance of credibility, and thinks it would not make any money from a 50p rate is it deserves to be defeated. I urge my hon. Friends to that it knows that millionaires can move money between defeat the motion and support the amendment. tax years, which is precisely what they have done. They knew that their Tory mates would reduce the top rate of Several hon. Members rose— tax the next year and so simply shifted their income to that year. The point that I had wanted to make in Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. There is another intervention—I appreciate that two were taken— to be a 10-minute limit on Back-Bench contributions relates to the idea that the 50p rate does not work and is with the usual injury time for two interventions. therefore dead. However, people earning between £32,000 and £42,000 already pay 52% marginal tax—12% for 1.57 pm national insurance and 40% for income tax—but of Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): What a course no one talks about that. How does that change load of codswallop we have been listening to since the their behaviour, and why is it fair that they pay the Minister got up on his hind legs! Obviously, this motion higher rate while people on £150,000 do not because is setting out a direction of travel. We are saying that they have accountants? It is ridiculous. those with the broadest shoulders should take the biggest load and the poorest should not pay the cost of the Mark Reckless rose— bankers’ recklessness. The myth that is habitually recited by Government Geraint Davies: Does the hon. Gentleman want to Members is “What a fine mess you’ve left us in,” so it is intervene? Perhaps he earns £150,000; I do not know. important to remind people of the facts. I recently met people from the Bank of England, and I have in my hand Mark Reckless: I want to develop the hon. Gentleman’s a graph showing that our growth rate rose continuously point. We currently have a tax band between £100,000 between 1998 and 2008, but then dipped when there was and £115,000 in which people face a marginal tax rate the financial tsunami. The GDP growth under Labour of 62%, with the personal allowance and national insurance. 185 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 186

Is he suggesting that that is somehow justifiable, or right up the income scale to the millionaires who live in more justifiable than the top rate tax he is suggesting for mansions—the people we have been talking about—what those earning more than £150,000? will they do with the extra money the Government will have bunged to them? The threshold has gone up, so Geraint Davies: I am simply saying that those with those at the top will also gain as a result. They will hide the broadest shoulders should take the greatest weight, it away offshore. that there is a strong case for a 50p rate of tax and that There are therefore difficult issues to confront. We some people already pay the 50p rate. I am not saying need to invest in our productive economy, but what is a that they should pay that. Our tax system is not very fair way to do that in a—dare I say it—one nation way? fair, and I will move on to that later. Britain wants a one nation future that works and a The problem we face is that there is no growth in our future that cares, and the question for us all in difficult economy because there is no consumer demand, and times must be how we deliver that. How do we invest, although the deficit—the rate at which the debt is increasing as I mentioned during Treasury questions, in super- —has gone down by 25%, as we are constantly reminded, connectivity for the city of Swansea? We do it on the the overall debt continues to rise to unprecedented back of investment in universities, electrified rail and levels. We are almost back to a pre-1997 situation in communications and by marketing city regions, and which we are paying people to stay on the dole and, at indeed Britain, for inward investment. Those are all the same time, cutting services. That is the old Tory important. The Minister mentioned some of the issues vicious cycle. We want to get back to Labour’s virtuous about marginal corporate taxation, but the research cycle, with people in jobs and paying tax and with tends to show that the major inward investment drivers unprecedented growth. are around research and development skills and access The other point that is always made is that the banks to markets, and we are well positioned on that. were unregulated and that is why everything went wrong. On corporate taxation, there is a lot to be said—to be The reality is that the Financial Services Authority—I fair to the Minister, he mentioned this—for the idea of know that it has had a bad name—was introduced in taxing economic activity where it occurs, whether we the teeth of opposition from the Tories, who said that are talking about Google, Amazon or other companies. there was too much regulation already. Then, when the Amazon is local to my constituency and provides valuable banks started going bust, the Labour Government said jobs, but it needs to be fair and there needs to be a level that we had better nationalise them so that people could playing field. If people are buying on Amazon rather still get money out at the hole in the wall. The Tories than at a local shop, it is important that the local shop said, “No, let them fall.” That would have been a knows that they are all playing the same game. complete catastrophe. So in other words, the previous Labour Government did a very good job. We now have Let us take the example of Apple phones and all the a situation in which, instead of confronting the deficit, technology in the phone I am holding in my hand. The which is what we should be doing, the Government have internet was invented here, and the other stuff, such as the wrong balance between growth and cuts, and within touch-screen and voice-activated technology, was invented the cuts there is the wrong balance—80% cuts and in the national institute of science in California. So 20% tax. Apple is being taken to court by California for $26 billion because it does not pay any tax. Apple has taken As for the claim that we are all in this together, we are innovation from the public sector, repackaged it, branded now in a situation in which the poor are paying the it, manufactured it overseas and got it taxed somewhere most. I mentioned in a brief intervention—I also raised else. A big issue is that global conglomerates need to be this in Prime Minister’s questions—a man who came to brought to account and to pay their contribution to the see me who had £20 a week, after utility bills, for food public services where people are consuming their products. and clothing. He now faces a further hit of about £7 a week for having an empty bedroom. How will he survive Some of these people obviously live in mansions. The on £2 a day? Allegedly, that change will save the Government issue about the mansion tax, of course, is that it is part about half a billion pounds, but of course it will not, of a more general review of council tax, as other because obviously people will move to the private sector, Members have mentioned, which has not been uprated. where rents are higher, and there will be empty houses There needs to be a progressive system of taxation. in the public sector because councils will be forced to Obviously the mansion tax, which is a Liberal Democrat evict people. It makes no economic sense at all. However, proposal, had not been completely thought out in all its if it did raise half a billion pounds, which is about one intricacies, but it is a direction of travel. If someone twentieth of what the Chancellor is investing in the tax lives in a £2 million house, it is not that difficult to find thresholds, the hit to the very poorest will be similar to ways of getting income out of it. It can be rented out the gain to a very large number of people, and that will and, with the rental income, the owner could have a cost a great deal of money. palatial place in south Wales and a profit, so they could sit by the sea and enjoy themselves. For those people The point I am trying to make is that what will who are stuck in £2 million cupboards in London, probably result in no savings will inflict enormous hardship allegedly, and we feel sorry for them, there are ways of on the most vulnerable, which is unnecessary and wrong. releasing equity, as they could be rented out and people Those people, because they are very poor, have no will pay the market rate. option but to spend all their money locally, which helps to boost growth. If that money is redistributed from the very poorest to the squeezed middle, which is obviously Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): I am listening to good for votes—a callous and cynical manoeuvre in the hon. Gentleman make some progress on the mansion difficult economic times—then clearly that is not in tax. Obviously it is a Liberal Democrat policy, and I am favour of growth either. In so far as it will push money really looking forward to perhaps voting for it later. 187 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 188

[Gordon Birtwistle] that conversion was specifically to right the wrong that the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) Can he explain to me—I am keen to know—whether acknowledged was done in 2007—in other words, to it will be in the Labour party manifesto at the next reintroduce the 10p rate. That is what Labour’s policy is. election? The motion is not entirely clear about that, but we have heard the words of the Leader of the Opposition. We Geraint Davies: Sadly, I cannot confirm that at the know that, yes, they are now in favour of a mansion tax, moment because I am not quite in a position to be but specifically to fund a 10p tax rate, which we think writing the party’s manifesto, although I have ambition. will be completely ineffective. In difficult times we should focus on growth and ensure that those with the broadest shoulders take the Nic Dakin: Was it yesterday that the hon. Gentleman weight and that we do not just squeeze the poor for the said on the BBC2 “Daily Politics” show that he could bankers’ mistakes. This proposal is part of a tapestry of have written the Labour motion himself? opportunity to move forward on that, and we call on the Liberal Democrats to support us on what is, after Stephen Williams: Yes, it was. I said it on “Westminster all, their idea. Locally in Swansea the Liberal Democrats Hour”, on Radio 5, on the “Daily Politics” show, and on have been a very strong party with control of the other programmes as well. Indeed I could have written council. Since 2010, they have been in a woeful state it myself. However, I know precisely what I mean by a because people are worried about their broken promises mansion tax, but we have not heard spelled out in any on tuition fees and so on. This is their chance to redeem detail what Labour Members think it should be. I know themselves so that there can be some glimmer of belief what I mean by a tax cut for low and middle-income in a future for the Liberal party. If they do not vote for earners, because that is what this Government are doing their own policy, what hope is there? Very little, I while we are in office. I am entirely clear what I mean by am afraid. the text of the motion; the trouble is that it has not been exactly clear what Labour Members mean by their words. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): I call Stephen Williams. Chris Leslie: We support the proposition that the hon. Gentleman has elucidated about a mansion tax, 2.10 pm so, okay, we are clear about what we mean by a mansion Stephen Williams (Bristol West) (LD): Thank you, tax. When the Business Secretary said that if the motion Mr Deputy Speaker—indeed, a man from Swansea. were It is a pleasure to speak in favour of the Government “purely a statement of support for the principle of a mansion tax, amendment tabled by the Deputy Prime Minister and I’m sure my colleagues would want to support it”, the Prime Minister, because it reflects the realities of was he wrong? coalition Government. The amendment is completely frank about the fact that there are two parties in coalition Stephen Williams: The Business Secretary is never and that one of them—my party, the Liberal Democrats— wrong; he is a very wise man. I do not see any great supports a mansion tax while the other, the Conservative difference between what he said and what I said on the party, does not. When we conducted our coalition record several times yesterday and over the weekend. negotiations back in May 2010, the Liberal Democrats We know what we mean by a tax for low and middle-income were successful in getting many of our policies into the earners. We know what Labour Members mean as coalition agreement that is now being implemented by well—a reintroduction of the 10p tax rate, and that is the Government, but the mansion tax was resisted by why we disagree with them. the Conservative party, and that is why the Chancellor has not, thus far, put it forward in his Budgets. We Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): Will my hon. Friend accept that position. Our amendment reflects the realities give way? of the coalition. Anas Sarwar: Will the hon. Gentleman tell us what Stephen Williams: I cannot give way again because I part of the Opposition motion he cannot support? have now lost all my concessions. The reason the Business Secretary—our shadow Stephen Williams: I will come to that, if the hon. Chancellor, as he then was—proposed a mansion tax Gentleman is patient. towards the end of 2009 was that property wealth in our The key sentences in the Opposition motion and in country is woefully under-taxed. Our only property tax the coalition Government amendment are those which is council tax. In England, the top council tax band, refer to our support for tax cuts for people on low and band H, is twice the rate of the broadest band, band D, middle incomes; we have that in common. However, it and three times that of the basic band, band A. That rather depends on what one means by that. We know means, in effect, that in our only property tax the rate what we mean by it. At the last general election, the for a £10 million mansion is only three times the rate for Liberal Democrats said that the most effective way to a bedsit. That is clearly a ludicrous way to tax property. cut taxes for people on low and middle incomes was to The band H top rate is only £320,000. Let us take as an raise the income tax threshold to £10,000. That policy example the royal London borough of Kensington and was accepted by our coalition partners and it has now Chelsea, just along from where we are now. A £90 million been delivered by the coalition Government. I listened mansion—I can see no other way to describe a £90 million carefully to what the Leader of the Opposition said in house—in Kensington Palace gardens pays council tax his speech just a month ago when, lo and behold, of £2,151. That is the top rate of council tax that can Labour was converted to a mansion tax. The purpose of possibly be paid in the London borough of Kensington 189 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 190 and Chelsea—exactly the same as the rate for a small household. That is Labour’s record in government: tax flat in that borough. That is a nonsensical property tax. cuts for the wealthy. We know that they were completely That is why my party, the Liberal Democrats, backs the discombobulated by the then shadow Chancellor’s introduction of a mansion tax on properties with a announcement to the Conservative party conference of value of over £2 million, with an annual levy of 1% on a cut in inheritance tax and were keen to match it. the excess over £2 million. That means that someone I am sure that Labour Members love reading Polly who had a £2.1 million mansion would pay mansion tax Toynbee’s column every week and that it is compulsory of £1,000 tax a year, while someone with a £3 million reading at the breakfast table in Labour households and mansion would pay mansion tax of £10,000 a year. in the Tea Room. In her column in The Guardian this The Minister and several other Members have asked morning dear Polly said: what would happen to people who are asset-rich but “Labour barely dared breathe on the riches that soared upwards income-poor. We have always had a very simple answer on their watch.” to that. In those cases, the tax would be rolled up and I could not agree more. At the time of its abolition, the would crystallise once the property was sold and then 10p tax rate taxed incomes under £7,455 at 10%, but be met from the sale price. That is a very simple concept since taking office we have taken such incomes out of for a very simple tax. We have also said that it should be tax altogether. Surely it is better to be taxed at 0% than a national tax, not a local tax. We have not hypothecated at 10%, so the coalition has been much fairer to people it to any particular tax measure, and we have not tied it on low incomes. to the reintroduction of a 10p tax rate as the Opposition That is not all that the coalition has done. We have have, which is why we do not support their motion. restricted pension tax relief. Up to May 2010 under However, it could take us to the final milestone of Labour someone could put more than £250,000 a year getting to the £10,000 income tax-free threshold that I into their pension pot, whereas this year under the am reasonably confident will be announced very shortly. coalition the figure is only £40,000. We raised capital It could certainly contribute to getting the Liberal gains tax from 18% to 28% and stamp duty on properties Democrats to where we wish to go next—that is, to worth more than £2 million to 7%. We might not have making sure that every adult on the national minimum been able to persuade our coalition partners on an wage, which is currently £12,071, should not be caught annual mansion tax, but we have persuaded them on a in the income tax net. We may be able to make progress mansion duty when properties of that value are acquired. towards that in the latter days of this coalition, but it will certainly be in the Liberal Democrat manifesto in We have done more to tackle avoidance. We set up an 2015; we are completely clear about that. affluence unit in Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, which will examine in detail the affairs of 500,000 of the Labour Members have linked their mansion tax most wealthy people, and placed a 15% charge on proposal—at least the concept, as they have not fleshed domestic properties bought via a company—a classic out what it really is—to the reintroduction of the 10p example of avoidance that the previous Government tax rate. I think it is fair to have a little look at Labour’s did little to block, just as they did not block and, record on the 10p tax rate. I love Budget debates, and I indeed, voted against disguised remuneration when we have been in the House for all of them in the eight years proposed to tackle it in one of our first Finance Bills. that I have been an MP. In March 2007, I was sitting We have been through many Opposition days, both in just where the hon. Member for Stockton North (Alex government and in opposition. When the votes are Cunningham) is sat on the Opposition Benches as I counted at 10 past 4, very little will have changed. What listened to last Budget speech of the right hon. Member are the origins of this motion? We know that it is based for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) in which on a policy stolen from the Liberal Democrats. I understand he announced the abolition of the 10p tax rate. That the right hon. Member for South Shields (David Miliband) was met on the then Government Benches with wild also proposed it in his leadership bid, so one brother cheers and waving of Order Papers because it was to steals from the other as well as from the Liberal Democrats. finance a cut in the basic rate of tax from 22% to 20%. This is pantomime politics, but nobody is laughing. Why was that being done? What was so crucial about its timing? As we know, the then Chancellor was heir apparent to the then Prime Minister, Tony Blair. He 2.22 pm thought that there was going to be an autumn 2007 Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab): I general election and that an income tax cut for better-off apologise for the fact that, as I indicated to you, Mr Deputy people in society, financed by the poorest, whom he Speaker, I shall need to leave the Chamber at about 2.30 pm, assumed would always vote Labour, seemed like a good although I shall return, so thank you for calling me now. piece of populist politics—but it backfired and blew up in his face. Six years on, we are asked to believe that I support the motion, the fundamentals of which Labour wants to make good for that mistake. simply call “on the Government to bring forward proposals for” There was another tax change in 2007 that does not get much attention. A lot of Labour Members here a mansion tax “at the earliest opportunity”. It is a today were not Members of the House at that time, so I proposal—nothing more, nothing less—that I should will forgive them for not remembering, but perhaps someone have thought the junior coalition partner supported. else on the Labour Benches wants to remind us of the I should like to remind the House, especially the other tax change that the former Prime Minister introduced Liberal Democrats, of a speech on tax and fairness in 2007. I see that there are no volunteers, so I will tell delivered last month by the Deputy Prime Minister, in the House, because I can see that Members are now in which he said: suspense: it was a doubling of the inheritance tax “I continue to believe we should ask for what would be a threshold from £325,000 to £650,000 in a double-income modest contribution from the very wealthy, either in the form of a 191 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 192

[Mr Russell Brown] like to be told that we have to tighten our belts, but younger families find it difficult to cope with such Mansion tax—a 1% levy on properties worth more than £2m—applied comments. just to the value over and above £2m; my preferred option. Or, Over the past two years the Government’s approach alternatively, we could introduce new council tax bands at the top end, again, affecting properties worth over £2m. . . Nothing could has been shown to be not working, but Labour Members do more to demonstrate a commitment to greater fairness in our know that it can never work. Prosperity will be achieved tax system. I will continue to make this argument, in this Coalition only when everyone plays their part in building the and beyond. My approach is simple: taxes on mansions; tax cuts economy—a recovery made by many, not just a few at for millions.” the top who believe they are aiding some recovery. That Only time will tell whether there is the slightest hint of is the lesson of history. In the industrial revolution, sincerity in those words. which I know was way back, it was those who went We are debating the issue today only because our down the mines, spun the cotton, built ships and constructed nation’s economic uncertainty and problems mean it bridges who drove the economy forward. The nation is is right that we do so. What is the current problem? It is crying out for a fairer tax system, which we will put at squeezed living standards and a flatlining economy. the heart of our new priorities. As well as cancelling the Families are working harder for longer and for less, yet millionaires’ tax cut and the changes to tax credits this almost daily they witness prices going up and up. The April, a Labour Budget would tax houses worth more talents of millions of our young people are being wasted than £2 million and use the money gathered to cut taxes and small businesses, which will drive our economy, are for working people. A fairer tax system would send a being held back by banks and a Government who are message about how Britain will succeed in the years not on their side. ahead that says: “When you play your part and make your contribution to the economy, you will be rewarded.” Yesterday evening I met representatives of a number of small and medium-sized enterprises based in the The Labour party would tackle vested interests. We London area. They told me and other Labour Members need to act when working people are paying more than that banks need to work for them and not against them, they should. We have said that we would break the which has been their experience of the past two or three stranglehold of the big six energy companies, stop the years: banks are not lending to the most entrepreneurial price rip-offs of the train companies on the most popular businesses, and in their eyes everything is going backwards. routes and cap the interest on payday loans. The economy is not growing and has flatlined over the Our country has to change. We must end the culture past two years, and the deficit is going up. Government that says that university is always best and that vocational borrowing is increasing as a result of economic failure. education is second class. That simply is not true. We Those of us who watched closely in the ’80s and early see the need to create a new technical baccalaureate to ’90s saw what economic failure did to the nation. We are complement A-levels. We see the need to give employers, witnessing nothing short of trickle-down economics: for the first time ever, control of the money for training. the middle is being squeezed and almost daily there is a We see the demand for Britain’s employers to step up race to the bottom. and offer real apprenticeships and proper training. The Government’s economic vision is of a race to the Today, we are increasingly two nations with high-skilled, bottom in wages and skills, rewarding only those at the high-paid jobs for those at the very top, but low-skilled, very top and leaving everyone else squeezed as never low-paid jobs that involve long hours for too many before. Next week taxes will be cut by an average of people. A one nation economy needs to support businesses £100,000 for 13,000 people earning more than £1 million, that create sustainable middle-income jobs by introducing yet millions of working families will be asked to pay a modern industrial policy. more as their tax credits are cut. Stewart Hosie: Will the hon. Gentleman give way? The Government refuse to stand up to the energy and train companies that are squeezing family budgets. Debates Mr Brown: Yes. have been held in the House over a prolonged period, but nothing has been done to protect some of our Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. I hope poorest families and communities. that the hon. Gentleman’s question will be about the mansion tax, because it seems as though the speech is Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): From going somewhat wider. listening to everything said by Members on the Government Benches one would think that everything in the garden Stewart Hosie: I very much agree with the tenor of was rosy, but my hon. Friend makes a point that has what the hon. Gentleman is saying, particularly in relation been echoed by research from the Institute for Fiscal to fair taxation. However, I remind him that barely any Studies: that under the measures in the Government’s of the sensible things that he wants to do were achieved autumn statement the poorest 40% in society are losing in the 13 years of the Labour Government. Some of much more than the richest tenth. what he says is therefore rather galling to listen to.

Mr Brown: My hon. Friend is correct: the figures Mr Brown: The hon. Gentleman and others in this given by the IFS are there for all to see and cannot be House have complained long and hard over many years disputed. We are seeing real pain and suffering, hard as about the investment that was made in this country by never before, in many communities. I am sure that the Labour Government and the work that they did to constituents of hon. Members on both sides of the stabilise and take forward the economy. There is a House are looking to their MPs for guidance and reluctance to remember what had to be done at the time support. I fear in particular for young families. Those of of the crisis when the banks failed. We had to support us who are slightly more senior in years know what it is the economy of this country by supporting those banks. 193 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 194

To conclude, I will return to the point that I made at Mark Reckless: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He the beginning of my speech. All we are asking is that the speaks about a person’s “principal residence”, so I Government bring forward proposals for a mansion tax assume that he would allow them to remain exempt at the earliest opportunity. We are not asking that a from capital gains tax, notwithstanding the £2 million-plus mansion tax be introduced, but we need to engage in the property that they live in. debate. I would go further and say that what our nation needs and deserves above all else is an open discussion Mr Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): If it is about taxation and what it means to our country. What somebody’s principal residence that will be taxed if it can taxation deliver for the people of our nation? Our is worth more than £2 million, does my hon. Friend European neighbours have such discussions. think that the threshold will be £4 million for husbands I hear what Liberal Democrat Members say, but any and wives who are living together in a home? sincerity that they have must be shown in the Division later this afternoon. Mark Reckless: Who can tell with these things? My hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Stephen 2.33 pm Williams) has given assurances, but the policy proposals that I cited have been submitted to the federal policy Mark Reckless (Rochester and Strood) (Con): It is a committee of his party. It is difficult as an outsider to pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Dumfries and judge how formal and important that is, but there are Galloway (Mr Brown), who ingeniously addressed the clearly Liberal Democrats who are talking about a topics of both of this afternoon’s debates and some broader tax on wealth and capital, including on jewellery. even broader topics. I think that would be a mistake. I will confine my remarks to the taxation of high-value It is unfortunate that the Opposition with this motion property. The motion refers to a mansion tax on properties and our friends on the Liberal Democrat Benches have worth more than £2 million. A serious problem with the become so focused on the arbitrary sum of £2 million. motion is that the Government have already brought in The Government are doing very good things in raising a range of measures to increase the incidence of tax on tax from people who own high-value properties but the owners of properties worth more than £2 million. No have not been paying their fair share of tax. The Opposition definition of “mansion tax”per se is provided in the motion. and the Liberal Democrats seem to want to confine The Leader of the Opposition hypothecated the revenues their efforts to rein in tax avoidance to those who own that would purportedly be raised by the mansion tax to houses worth more than £2 million. I and my Conservative reintroduce the 10% rate of tax, which was abolished by colleagues do not understand why we should be concerned the previous Government. The cost of that would be about tax avoidance just when a person’s house is worth some £7.3 billion. Research that was published recently more than £2 million. shows that to raise that amount of money, a so-called It is hugely welcome that the Government are bringing mansion tax would have to be introduced not on properties in the anti-avoidance measure of a 15% tax when homes worth more than £2 million, but on properties worth that are worth more than £2 million are enveloped into more than £415,000. It may be that the Opposition wish a company, which is generally done for the purposes of to tax people in that class of income more. Perhaps they tax avoidance. However, I am not entirely clear why we think that they are rich, are benefiting too much and are doing that only for homes worth more than £2 million, need to pay more to the Government. I look forward to except for the fact that that is the arbitrary number that their fighting the next election on that basis. has been chosen by the Liberal Democrats for such Meanwhile, our coalition partners have said that there taxation. [Interruption.] The Opposition are calling should be a mansion tax that applies only to residential out, but they did nothing about this matter for 13 years. property worth more than £2 million. However, we have It is a huge improvement that this Government are also heard from the Liberal Democrats—I am not sure dealing with tax avoidance using properties worth more whether it came from the federal policy committee or than £2 million. quite how they develop these policies—that it would apply not just to mansions above £2 million, but to Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con): Will my hon. property generally above £2 million. It is therefore just Friend give way? as important for somebody who has 10 flats worth £200,000 each to pay the extra tax as somebody who Mark Reckless: If I may, I will continue for a while. has a so-called mansion worth £2 million. Apparently, they are going to go further and inspect the contents of There have been consultation papers and draft legislation jewellery boxes and levy taxes on those as well. on how the anti-avoidance measure will be introduced. There will be self-assessment, so there will be no need Stephen Williams: My hon. Friend is setting various for the great costs of revaluing properties. I am sure that hares flying across the field. Of course, I am not in the Minister is keen to raise more money, so will he say favour of hunting, but those hares need to be stopped whether there is any hope that the Government will take from running. The jewellery tax is complete nonsense. action against people who avoid the 5% tax on a property As I have said many times on the record, we are not in that is worth between £1 million and £2 million by favour of a net wealth tax that allows HMRC to look putting it into a company? beyond people’s front doors. On the property portfolio, Perhaps the Minister will assist me on another point. if somebody owned 10 flats, the nine that they did not Where people have enveloped houses into a company live in would probably be attracting rental income and there will be an annual charge of between 0.3% and so would already be taxed. A mansion tax would apply 0.7% of the property’s value, which is welcome. Many to somebody’s principal residence if it was worth more of the papers have suggested that the purpose of that is than £2 million. to encourage people—or in this case companies—to 195 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 196

[Mark Reckless] already doing substantial work to obtain a more proper tax take from such properties and we could look at de-envelope their properties, and the measure will come whether that could go further. Obviously, I do not expect in only after 1 April 2013. Do the Government expect answers about what will be in the forthcoming Budget, stamp duty to be paid on those de-enveloping transactions, but in some areas higher tax would be a good thing. I so that if the property’s value is more than £2 million am not generally in favour of that, but where people there will be a 7% charge, or do they expect the sale to avoid tax by putting houses into companies, even if they be from a controlled company to the person controlling are worth less than £2 million, we should try and get the that company, perhaps at a nominal rate that will not proper tax. Where overseas residents are doing nicely by attract stamp duty, in order to recoup some of the securing capital in the UK but paying very little for the avoidance they may have made over previous years? I privilege, by taxing the capital gains they make on later would be interested to hear the Minister’s response to sales of those houses it would be welcome to see them that. paying their share and doing a little to help us close the As well as dealing with tax avoidance on properties deficit, which, of course, is the great uniting purpose of under £2 million, I would also like non-residents to the coalition. make a fairer contribution. I was first alerted to the issue by the Chancellor when in opposition. He said 2.44 pm that he found the situation extraordinary, and there was a great deal of resentment when he explained how it Sheila Gilmore (Edinburgh East) (Lab): I am pleased worked and about the exemption from capital gains tax to follow the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood for non-residents. I do not understand why a resident of (Mark Reckless) because much of this debate seems to this country must pay capital gains tax on the sale of have been spent in an argument between the two coalition their property—unless it is their principal residence—yet partners about how they would define certain types of a non-resident is exempt from that tax. taxation, and the problem with the amendment is that it has to look two ways at once. The Liberal Democrats A huge flow of overseas money has come to this have been prepared to break rank on other issues, but country as people fear the break-up of the eurozone this matter is clearly not one of those. Interestingly, it is and there is a rush to safety, and much of that has gone often on crucial financial or welfare issues that they do into property in central London. We say to people who not break ranks but keep voting with the Tory-dominated own those homes, “As long as you don’t live there and Government, which is regrettable. you stay overseas, we will give you a tax break and you These are issues of fairness. We have heard a lot from won’t have to pay capital gains tax.” When we go to those on the Government Front Bench and the Liberal Mayfair or parts of Belgravia, it sometimes feels as if Democrats about the increase in the tax threshold, not many people are about. We are subsidising and which they suggest is much better than anything else that giving a tax break to people as long as they do not live could have happened—it is better than the 10p tax rate, in this country, and I have never understood the purpose so we should be satisfied with it. We must remember, of that. however, that for many people that tax threshold was Given that the Labour party did nothing about that bought at the expense of big losses in things such as tax situation for 13 years, I was pleased that the Budget and credits. Finance Bill contained measures to extend stamp duty For many families, the net effect of such measures to at least some overseas residents. The Government means not that they are better off but that they are consultation states: worse off, and the Liberal Democrats in particular must “The Government announced in the Budget that it will extend face up to that. In order to get the tax threshold through the Capital Gains Tax (CGT) regime from April 2013 to gains on —that was clearly part of the coalition agreement—the the disposal of UK residential property by non-resident non-natural Liberal Democrats have had to accept some pretty persons, such as companies. The measure creates a more equal unpalatable things that go with it and, on balance, a lot treatment in the CGT regime between UK residents and non-residents, and brings the UK’s tax policy in line with that of other countries, of low-income households are not particularly grateful many of whom already tax non-residents’ gains.” for that. The increase in the threshold also has other consequences. It is an expensive way to help the low If we want an equal regime between UK residents paid because of the way it goes to everyone, not just the and non-residents, why are we extending CGT only to low paid. non-resident, non-natural persons—basically companies? Surely we should also extend it to natural persons who Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): I am following are resident overseas. Other countries are doing that; my hon. Friend closely and she makes a powerful case. India and China have made moves in that direction, so Does she agree that many of our constituents feel that why not us? Some industrialised countries do not do it, the Liberal Democrats are not so much ameliorating but none of those have such a pool of property that acts the Conservative Government as facilitating it? as a free piggy bank for overseas residents. We keep their wealth and capital completely secure in central Sheila Gilmore: Indeed, and back in the beginning London yet they pay no capital gains tax on it. Could the decision to go into coalition with the Conservatives— we perhaps consider going further in that area and look rather than, for example, entering into a looser agreement at extending capital gains tax to overseas non-residents —was to facilitate many of these measures. In crucial who are natural persons, rather than concentrating votes of the kind I have mentioned, the Liberal Democrats simply on companies? have not broken rank at all. We have heard a lot of I welcome what the Government are doing. The warm words, particularly from the Deputy Prime Minister, Liberal Democrats refer to a mansion tax on properties about things such as the mansion tax, but when we get worth more than £2 million, but the Government are down to it, they turn out to be only warm words and 197 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 198 not something that Liberal Democrat Members are The mansion tax enables us, in part, to really feel—as prepared to stand up for in this House and within the a community and as a country—that people are bearing coalition. a fair share of the burden. We have heard a lot about tax Fairness is a large part of what we must all be about. avoidance and tax evasion. It worries me greatly that Over the past three years, the very poorest people, those the justification given for removing the 50p rate of tax is on low earnings or those who, for example, are unable that people are not paying it. Instead of looking at why to work because of illness and disability, are bearing people are not paying it, and whether anything could be substantial contributions that we are told cannot be done to ensure that it was paid, we again hear, “Actually, alleviated because our economic recovery will be put at we’ll just take it away because they aren’t paying it.” risk. Over the past few weeks we have had heated debates That is not a good message to put out. about the bedroom tax. The issue has been raised on We have also had reference—in relation to the mansion numerous occasions and we have been told time and tax, Mr Deputy Speaker—to not wanting to have such again that it is essential to make those savings to reduce a competitive tax regime that we risk people fleeing our the deficit. shores. Reference was made to the PricewaterhouseCoopers report about competitive tax rates. There is an interesting Mel Stride: Given the under-occupancy subsidy— coda to that report from some of those who were after all, a tax is where one earns money and the state surveyed. The question then becomes: will the increased comes and takes it away, but that is not what we are competitiveness lead to increased investment in this dealing with—does the hon. Lady have no sympathy for country, because that is what is really important? Many the quarter of a million people living in overcrowded of the tax people thought it was crucial to turn improved accommodation and the 2 million families on the housing tax relief on capital expenditure into investment in this waiting list who are desperate for bedrooms that can be country, and that it should be the No. 1 priority for the freed up through this measure? UK. In 2010, the Chancellor abolished capital allowances for investment in his first year in office. Perhaps he would like to look at the whole report, and not just the Sheila Gilmore: I have great sympathy for people who parts that suit him. are overcrowded and for those on the housing waiting list. The majority of people waiting for housing in my An argument has been made—as it always is with city are looking for small houses, so that could also regard to rates and council tax—about people who are cause certain problems. asset rich and income poor. It is usually raised as a reason for not putting up council tax banding, for example. In Fundamentally, however, this is not a housing issue. the old days, it was used as a reason for not making If we want to make the issue about housing, we should changes to the rating system. Yes, we can all come up deal with it as a housing issue and look at ways of with examples of people who are in that position. Usually, encouraging and facilitating moves for people who want the example is a widow who cannot afford to pay. them. That is not necessarily happening. People have However, we cannot design our entire system of taxation asked me, “Well, if I did move who would help me pay around that, and there are ways it can be mitigated, as for this move? Who will reimburse me for the fact that I there are with council tax. If someone is genuinely as put my own kitchen into this house? My landlord did income poor as has been suggested, they would—at not quite get around to it, so when I was working a few least until the Government decided to change the rules years ago I put in that new kitchen. Is somebody now on council tax benefit—have been eligible for assistance going to reimburse me for that? Are they going to help with their council tax. There are always ways to help me with the cost of moving my things? Are they going such people. to help me with the cost of setting up in a new place? I don’t think so.” If a local authority—some do—decided Earlier, I made what to some people might have that it wanted to encourage people to move once they seemed an unfair comparison. We were being asked to had outgrown their homes, it could do so. It might have think about the widow who might struggle with a mansion a cost, but it would have a benefit. tax. The 60-year-old widow I referred to is being asked If every single person suffering from the bedroom tax to pay £13 per week out of an income of £71 a week, wasabletomove— and the answer is that she should take in a lodger. If we want to be fair to both groups, we have to treat them with equal compassion. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans): Order. Is this a bedroom tax on mansions? This is an Opposition day motion. I think the hon. Lady is actually holding it in Mr Charles Walker: As the hon. Lady will know, her hands. Has she read it, and, if she has, could she property values vary across the United Kingdom. A perhaps stick to it? £2 million house in London may be the equivalent of a £500,000 or £750,000 house in Edinburgh. For the sake of fairness, does she think that there should be an Sheila Gilmore: The point I was going to make in additional tax on properties worth more than £750,000, relation to the matter that was, after all, raised in an so that people really do feel that we are all in it together intervention is that if everybody moved successfully and that this proposed tax will not just be borne by and reshuffled, there would be no saving, and that is London and the south-east? odd because a saving is wanted. It is in that context that people are saying, “What sort of fairness is it that imposes such a great burden of trying to effect economic Sheila Gilmore: I am not convinced by that argument. recovery on those who are least well off? Could we look If we were to enter into that, we would have do so in at other measures to show that we really are all in this ways that I suspect the hon. Gentleman would not find together?” That is where the mansion tax comes in. particularly palatable. 199 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 200

[Sheila Gilmore] We need action to tackle the unfairness in the system, to sort out the big six energy companies, to stop the There is nothing inherently wrong in levying a mansion rip-off rail fares condoned by the Government and to tax. All the arguments made about the 50p tax do stop the poorest people—the most vulnerable in our not apply to the same extent, because buildings do not society—being ripped off by payday loan companies disappear and cannot be shuffled around. It is a way of and loan sharks. Let more of those with the assets, generating income and bringing in more tax revenue so rather than those with none, pay the taxes. There is real that we can do all the things we want with public services, poverty in our communities. One illustration is the or, as we suggest, enable low-paid earners to have a 10p increasing number of food banks. I will be opening tax rate. Just because a mistake was made previously does another one on Monday at the New Life church in not mean that we should not again consider a 10p tax. Billingham in my constituency. We should not have to be doing such things. We should not need food banks. I 2.57 pm know that their use increased even when we were in Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): This is a government, but they should not be necessary.If we had debate about fairness, as well as a mansion tax. a fair income tax system, we would not need food Unemployment in my constituency has been higher banks. every single month compared with the previous year The mansion tax might mean £5 a week for some since the coalition Government came to power. There families. That would not buy a small glass of wine in a are 4,293 on jobseeker’s allowance, and many more Canary Wharf bar, but it could make a huge difference want to work. My local authority, Stockton-on-Tees—we to the people at the bottom of the earning scales. It do not have many £2 million mansions—will shed 1,000 would buy enough bread from Asda for a family of four jobs before the current massive cuts are fully implemented. for several days, yet the Tories—and, more shamefully, Councillors are working hard, but problems persist. the Lib Dems—would miss the opportunity to put The Cleveland fire authority, which I met on Friday, bread in the mouths of poor families by failing to send faces tough decisions that could reduce the number of a message to the Chancellor that he should adopt this firefighters in the highest risk area in Europe because of mansion tax in next week’s Budget. I am sure that the cuts and a funding formula that does not recognise people who own property worth more than £2 million the risk we face on Teesside. Other hon. Members have could afford the extra charge to help the poor. If not, mentioned the unfairness of energy prices, train fares they can move to a less expensive property and dodge and payday loan sharks, and all are unfair, but it is the the tax. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh tax cut for millionaires that sticks in the craw. People East (Sheila Gilmore), I see a parallel with the bedroom see millionaires getting a tax cut at a time when working tax. Thousands of people in my area are facing a cut in mothers face a £160 loss in their income. I could go on their income. The answer, apparently, is to move to a at much greater length about unfairness. smaller property. Those with homes valued at more I hear from a friend of mine up on Tyneside, Ian than £2 million but who cannot afford a mansion tax Wilson, that Champagne Fever won the first race at the should do what the poor have to do and downsize. Cheltenham festival today. The partner of the horse’s I am one of those who supports higher taxes, particularly owner earned £44 million in pay and bonuses last year. when people can afford to pay, so I plead guilty as He is a banker. I am sure he can afford the mansion tax. charged. Earlier today, a Minister said that the Government were focused on the causes of poverty, but all the time Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): I have some cash is being shifted from the poorest to the wealthiest, suspicion about anyone who earns £44 million. They just as the funds available to local authorities in the may have received £44 million a year, but they did not north of England are being shifted to the richer areas in earn it. the south. I said that unemployment was not falling in Alex Cunningham: My hon. Friend is much skilled in my constituency, but in some parts of the south it has these debates and I take his point entirely. fallen, albeit owing to part-time, low-paid jobs. The Government’s austerity measures have devastated local Time and again, Government Members have challenged authorities in the north-east, and the contractors who us to make clear what tax changes we would make to build roads and houses and promote and deliver other rebalance the unfairness in the tax system. I am delighted, services are the losers, being forced to pay off skilled therefore, that the Labour Front-Bench team has backed workers who want to work and support their families. the Lib Dem policy of a mansion tax, while going further by saying that the money could be used to fund Next Wednesday, the Chancellor will deliver his Budget a 10p tax rate, which would bring immense benefit to for 2013-14. It is probably his last chance before the the lowest-paid in our communities. It would be a general election in 2015 to come up with a set of tremendous boost to many of the lowest-paid people policies that could make a real difference to people’s across Teesside and the rest of the country, including all lives. The biggest difference he could make would be to the people who have landed one of these low-paid, abandon his plan A, under which growth has stagnated, part-time jobs that the Government gleefully boast unemployment in areas such as mine has grown and about. Those people are to be praised and helped. Their deficit and debt reduction has become even harder, but pay is derisory, yet they want to work hard and be in a we know he will not do it. He is tied to his ruinous plan job, so we should do something to help them. They A because he has staked his credibility on it—but there already face the prospect of a cut in income from the is no credibility in it. The Tories still talk about what changes to tax credits from the end of this month, and will happen if the economy turns around, but if we today the Lib Dems, and others, could join us in helping return to growth, will ordinary people suddenly stop to correct that unfair tax change and recognising their feeling the strain of higher costs and less money in their commitment to hard work. pockets? I very much doubt it. 201 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 202

This ignores the fact that the Chancellor’s plan has Prices are rising and incomes are falling. Ordinary already failed on its own terms. Not only is the national people are finding it difficult to make ends meet, because debt far higher than it was when he took office, but he incomes are falling and people are losing their jobs or has failed, and failed again, on growth. The reason is losing hours they want to work or reducing their pay in that without a good level of growth it is difficult to order to help businesses through these difficult times reduce deficits and debt, and as the Chancellor’s own and to manage the situation together. That is what Office for Budget Responsibility pointed out last week, businesses in my constituency are doing—managing the cutting spending and hiking up taxes for ordinary people situation with their work force—which often means has slowed and stopped economic growth. As the ratings reducing hours and pay, but keeping businesses and agency Moody’s pointed out when it downgraded the households afloat. UK’s credit rating, the country’s lack of growth has These are difficult times, with the squeeze on hard- made it nearly impossible for the Government to meet working families being worsened by the reduction in tax the only real goal they set themselves, which was eradicating credit eligibility and the looming spectre of the bedroom the structural deficit. tax, to which several right hon. and hon. Members have Although a return to growth would be welcome, only referred. People are struggling to make ends meet. They strong growth would be enough to make up for the lost are doing their best to keep their heads above water. As years of economic stagnation under this Government my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North (Alex and to keep up with the growing and ageing population. Cunningham) said, we see the number of food banks Unless economic growth is above population growth, expanding and child poverty rising. In 2013, these are we are all getting poorer. Add to that the fact that things that none of us would wish to see happen in the the Government are redistributing from the bottom to United Kingdom—one of the richest countries in the the top by cutting the top rate of tax for millionaires world—on our collective watch. These are tough times while capping welfare, increasing VAT and cutting public in the real world. services, and the scale of their failure becomes all the more apparent. Stephen Williams: Yes, in tough times we have to In Stockton North, we know all too well the impact make tough choices. I recognise that some of them are of the Government’s policies. Long-term unemployment uncomfortable, but does the hon. Gentleman lament has more than doubled in the past 12 months and youth the fact that in 2007, when budget revenues were increasing unemployment remains stubbornly high. Next Wednesday, and the economy was perceived to be booming, the the Chancellor has a chance to change course, cut previous Labour Government decided to put up taxes spending less quickly and focus on taxing obscene wealth on the very poorest? in order to invest in young people. He is very keen to point to the past and the failures—as he sees it—of the Nic Dakin: The hon. Gentleman will be alert to the Labour Government, but he has been in his role for nearly fact that I came into this House only in 2010. We can all three years and has failed abysmally. There will be much look back with hindsight and be critical of decisions for a Labour Government to do in 2015 to address the made at different times. One of the issues for us all in unfairness built into our country by the Conservative-Lib these difficult times is to think about whether people Dem alliance. I have talked about energy, rail fares and looking back with hindsight on the decisions we are housing, and we are already making clear some of the making today will say we made the right decisions. things we would do. Today, Government Members can help us get our fairness agenda under way by backing a Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): Why does mansion tax and helping to fund lower taxes for those the hon. Gentleman think that between 1998 and 2010, who need them most—I hope they will. in a period of sustained economic growth, the welfare bill under the party he supports went from £53 billion to £111 billion? Does that not speak to a failure to 3.6 pm tackle endemic issues of welfare dependency, which this Government are addressing? Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab): This debate is about tax fairness, with contributions from both sides having Nic Dakin: The hon. Gentleman might not have focused on that challenge. The year 2013 is not 2008 or noticed, but this debate is focused on fair taxes. He is 2001; we are in different times and facing different right to draw attention to other things, but you would challenges and, therefore, different choices. We are bring me to order, Mr Deputy Speaker, if I were lured undoubtedly in tough times, in difficult times; we are in down that route. a period of austerity, and, as a result, we have different choices to make. Sheila Gilmore: Let me say quickly that changes to Individuals also have different choices to make. I am demographic factors such as age are important in this being contacted, as I am sure every other right hon. and respect, and 42% of the welfare budget goes on older hon. Member is, by constituents living through these people and pensions. tough times and finding it difficult to make ends meet, owing to rising prices, fuelled by the hike in VAT, which Nic Dakin: I am afraid my hon. Friend is also luring was one of the very first decisions of this Conservative-led me down a route that I would rather not go down, Administration. Despite describing it as a tax bombshell because I would not like to face your ire, Mr Deputy in the general election campaign, the Liberal Democrats Speaker. sadly supported this most regressive of tax increases. Energy bills, fuel bills, food bills and rail fares are all Mel Stride: The hon. Gentleman is being exceedingly rising, making it difficult for ordinary people and families generous in giving way. As he has said, he is keen to talk to make ends meet. about tax fairness. He referred earlier to the iniquity of 203 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 204

[Mel Stride] I very much welcome the Deputy Prime Minister’s rather prophetic contribution to this debate. It puzzles reducing the top rate of tax for higher earners from 50p one that the Liberal Democrats who have spoken so far in the pound to 45p, which is coming up this April. have indicated that they might not support the motion. Does he therefore not accept that, in his terms, the last However, a number of them have been here for a large Labour Government acted totally unfairly in having a part of the debate, so I hope they will be persuaded by top rate of just 40p in the pound right the way through the power of argument. until the last 36 days of his Government? It is worth noting that the motion says: “That this House believes that a mansion tax on properties Nic Dakin: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his worth over £2 million, to fund a tax cut for millions of people on intervention, but I have not yet said that—I am going to middle and low incomes, should be part of a fair tax system; and say it later, so I will come to his point when that is calls on the Government to bring forward proposals for such a appropriate. tax at the earliest opportunity.” I was describing the difficult choices that hard-working As my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham East families are having to make to keep their heads above (Chris Leslie) said from the Opposition Front Bench, water. The obligation we face—those of us who govern, nothing could be simpler. Indeed, this is the sort of as well as those on the Opposition Benches—is to make simple motion that the Business Secretary called for difficult choices about where revenue is raised. It is and that the Deputy Prime Minister called for before therefore right and proper to look at ways of taxing the Eastleigh by-election. Indeed, the hon. Member for people who have significant wealth, as people who own Bristol West (Stephen Williams) confirmed today that properties valued at more than £2 million do. Therefore, he could have written it himself, so one wonders why the it is right and proper to look at ways of ensuring that Liberal Democrats cannot support it. One is helped to that part of our nation makes a contribution in these understand why they cannot do so by reading the rather difficult times. entertaining amendment, the middle of which We know that people of great wealth are sometimes “notes that the part of the Coalition led by the Deputy Prime quite imaginative and inventive when it comes to avoiding Minister…advocates a mansion tax on properties worth more taxes. I commend the work of Government over the ages than £2 million, as set out in his party’s manifesto, and the part of to find ways of tackling tax avoidance—this Government the Coalition led by the Prime Minister does not advocate a have done a number of things that are to be welcomed. mansion tax”. Property is obviously difficult to hide. One of the big We have a pushmi-pullyu Government, pushing in one advantages of a property tax—a mansion tax, as expounded way and pulling in the other. We have a real pantomime over the years by the Liberal Democrats in particular—is horse, as my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham that it is difficult to avoid paying, because property is East said, from a pantomime Government, but this is visually identifiable. As my hon. Friend the Member for not pantomime time. It is a serious time, and a serious Westminster North (Ms Buck) said earlier—she is no time requires serious politics. The Liberal Democrats longer in her place—60% of high-value properties in have an opportunity to stand by their principles—to London are owned by people from overseas. Indeed, I stand on the side of honest, hard-working people—by note the comments of the hon. Member for Rochester coming into the Lobby this afternoon to support our and Strood (Mark Reckless) on this issue. He made an motion, which could have been written by the hon. intelligent and helpful contribution to the debate. Member for Bristol West. I am pleased to see the hon. Member for Eastleigh (Mike Thornton) in his place and I very much welcome him to the House. I am sure he will continue to build on 3.19 pm his excellent maiden speech and make good contributions Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab): First, I apologise to the work of the House. However, prior to the by-election, for arriving late for the debate. I had another commitment the Deputy Prime Minister, writing in The Observer, that was inescapable, but I want to make a contribution described the Prime Minister as being “stuck in the to this important discussion. I also congratulate the past” for opposing the mansion tax. The Observer hon. Member for Eastleigh (Mike Thornton) on his commented that this came election victory. I heard his maiden speech yesterday, “amid signs that the Liberal Democrats are ready to challenge the and a very fine speech it was, too. Unfortunately, he left Tories more vigorously over key aspects of economic policy.” the Chamber—no doubt for a celebratory drink—before Today’s debate is an ideal opportunity for them to do I had a chance to congratulate him, as it was my turn to that. The Deputy Prime Minister attacked the Prime speak. I remember that, on the day of the election, I was Minister in his article, saying that the Conservatives knocking on doors for the Labour party, as he would were instinctively against fairer taxation expect. We were delivering leaflets that said that it was a “even as people on lower incomes feel the pinch”. two-horse race. Sadly, Labour was not one of the two horses, but I was slightly comforted by the fact that the He said that the plan for a mansion tax on properties Conservative party was not one of them either. worth more than £2 million, which was being backed by the Labour party, was an idea “whose time has come”, Tax fairness is the subject of this debate, and I very and said it was a “certainty” that some levy on high-value much welcome the moves that our leadership is making properties would be introduced soon. He continued: in that direction. The decisions on the mansion tax and the 10p rate are important. They might be straws in the “The Conservatives and opponents of fairer taxes have a choice. They can dig their heels in and remain stuck in the past. wind, but the wind is blowing in the right direction. The Or they can join with the Liberal Democrats and the chorus of mansion tax is perhaps something of a slogan—an voices seeking to make our tax system fair. Far better, surely, to eye-catching, or thought-catching, idea—but I believe move with the times.” that property taxes are appropriate in a civilised society. 205 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 206

Property has the advantage that it does not move, so we Kelvin Hopkins: Yes, that was absolutely regrettable. I can always find it. As long as we can also find the know that my party will commit to introducing a cap on owner, we can collect the taxes. bonuses in our first few days in power after the next Property taxes, as with all taxes, have to be carefully election. designed. As the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker) said, we have to be careful to ensure that such taxes are Mr Stewart Jackson: The hon. Gentleman always equitable. If there is inequity between regions, that makes a powerful point. Having served on the Public should be looked at. The taxes have to be carefully Accounts Committee and on the ongoing inquiries into designed to ensure that equity. Personally, I would like tax avoidance, I concur with him. I am a defender not of to go further and talk about a wealth tax. My party crony capitalism but of popular capitalism. He might used to talk about that some years ago, and I would like not agree with me on that, being slightly on the left. In to see a more general tax on wealth in order to do order to tackle corporate tax avoidance, we need to something about the grotesque inequalities in our society. look at multilateral, bilateral, international and domestic Those inequalities have grown enormously during the legislation, but would he acknowledge that the previous time I have been active in politics. Had I been told when Government flunked every opportunity to look at those I was first active in my party in the late ’50s and early issues over 13 years? ’60s that we would be in this position now, I would not have believed it. We have moved in this direction, however, Kelvin Hopkins: We have seen successive Governments and it has been a retrograde step. going in for what is called light-touch regulation on all fronts. I have never believed in light-touch regulation; I No doubt some hon. Members will have read a book believe in tough regulation. I believe in employing thousands entitled “The Spirit Level”, which identifies a strong more tax officers to ensure that we collect the taxes. At correlation between income inequality and a whole the beginning of my time in Parliament, I visited our range of social ills. I want to see a society that is much local VAT office, and the inspectors there told me that if more equal in income terms, in order to reduce those they had more tax inspectors, they could collect billions social ills and because it is right in principle. It is more in tax. Each of those VAT inspectors collected interesting to note that that correlation applies in all more than five times their salary. I wrote about this to societies, whatever the income levels. It does not just the Chancellor of the Exchequer at the time, and got a apply in rich societies or poor ones. In any society, letter back from a civil servant saying that the Treasury income inequality correlates with greater social ills. I was trying to reduce costs by reducing staffing levels. That hope that when my party gets into office at the next was a completely illogical non sequitur; it was complete election—that is “when”, not “if”—we will seriously nonsense. Reducing the number of tax officers will reduce address that question and try to make Britain a much income by more than the amount of their salaries. more equal society again. I have made the point many times—and I shall continue Tax has to be progressive. We have to tax the better-off, to make it—that we need more tax officers and more and we should tax the less well-off either very little or rigorous regulation. We need more control over what not at all. I have to say that I was disappointed in the the corporates and the fat cats get away with. The previous Government. I was one of a small number of reality is that ordinary working-class people have to Labour Members—I think there were six of us—who pay tax through PAYE. They cannot escape paying voted against the abolition of the 10p rate, and I am their tax, but the corporates and the fat cats can. So, I delighted that our leadership has now chosen to reverse have agreed with the hon. Member for Peterborough that decision and to put us back onside when it comes (Mr Jackson) on one or two issues, and I am pleased to looking after the less well-off. That decision is very about that, although we have different philosophical welcome indeed. views when it comes to economics. Income tax is the most progressive form of tax. It is I want to talk about the deficit problem, because that adjustable and, in the case of most people, it is collectable. is what taxation is about. I do not think that we actually Most of us are on PAYE, so there is no problem with have a deficit problem. We do not even have a spending collection. There is a problem, however, with collecting problem. We have a revenue collection problem. That taxes from those who try to evade or avoid paying what can be addressed either by collecting tax in the way that is rightly due from them. We have heard from the tax we do now, or by changing tax rates, as proposed in justice movement, and from Richard Murphy in particular, today’s motion. an assessment of the tax gap as being something like Tax collection is a serious problem, and we could £120 billion. Some suggest that it could be even more make serious changes there, but I want to look back to a than that. Even the Government accept that the figure time when taxes were more progressive. During the is in the tens of billions. Small advances have been made previous Parliament, I made suggestions in this Chamber in collecting that tax, but if were really to make inroads about the kind of tax changes that I wanted to see. I in that area, we would not need to look at changes in the went beyond what our leadership is now suggesting, tax rate because there would be so much more income although I welcome its proposals. I think we should go to enable us to solve our problems. further, however. In the 1970s, Denis Healey was Chancellor of the Exchequer. He said that he wanted to Sheila Gilmore: We have heard a lot of the language “tax the rich until the pips squeak”. around dealing with tax avoidance and with high-income I cheered him for that, and we did not lose any votes earners. Does my hon. Friend not find it disappointing because of his statement. In fact, a lot ordinary working- that, at almost the first opportunity to take action, the class people said, “Quite right too! We want those who Chancellor went to Europe to argue against a cap on can afford to pay more to do so. Those who can only bonuses? afford to pay less should pay less.” 207 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 208

Mel Stride: Was Denis Healey the same Chancellor I realise that we will not return to that rate, but I will who had to go cap in hand to the International Monetary say that during a Budget debate in the last Parliament, Fund in the 1970s because this country was bankrupt? on a cold Thursday afternoon when it was raining and there were about six people in the Chamber, I suggested Kelvin Hopkins: He did indeed go to the IMF, but I that we could consider a 50% rate for those on £60,000 a think it has now been recognised that that was unnecessary. year—this was then!—a 60% rate for those on £100,000, We did not need to kowtow to the IMF or to impose and a 70% rate for those on £200,000. That would have those strictures. In fact, remarkably, the economy survived taken us nowhere near where we had been in the 1970s, quite well during that time, although a mistake was but it would have been a substantial change from where made at the end. I shall not go into that now, Mr Deputy we were then. Speaker, because you would call me to order if I did, I did not get much of a reaction in the Chamber, but but it was the reason why things went wrong in 1979. the Deputy Speaker spoke to me privately afterwards. I Nevertheless, we survived the 1970s, although the oil am giving away no secrets, because she is no longer a price rose by five times in a very short period, which Member of Parliament. She said, “I do so agree with affected the whole world including Britain. you. Why do the Government not just do as you say?” Well, if only; but I had said what I thought, and I At that time, I was working for the Trades Union thought that would be a reasonable move. I suggested Congress and then in the trade union movement. I was the 50% rate for those on £60,000 because at least it an economist, and was lobbying the Government. I was would mean Members of Parliament paying a tiny bit at the TUC General Council when the £6 pay policy extra on the top part of their income. I thought that was was agreed to. That was an historic moment. I thought right then, and I still think it is right. it amazing that the trade unions had agreed to a cap on pay increases for everyone, but the reason they agreed Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I fear to it was that it was fair. Everyone would receive a that the hon. Gentleman has run out of time. Much as I £6 pay rise. For someone with a low income that was a was enjoying his speech, I must now call Catherine big rise, while for someone with a high income it was McKinnell. not very much, but it was fair, and was seen to be fair across the board. 3.32 pm Other Members are too young to remember this, but in those days the top rate of tax was 83p in the pound, Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) and there was also a 15% surcharge on unearned income. (Lab): It is a pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Some of those whose income was entirely unearned, Member for Luton North (Kelvin Hopkins) perhaps in property, were paying a 98% rate on the top This has been a good debate on what is really quite part of their income. I thought that was pretty fair, but a simple premise—that our taxation system should be of course we cannot go back to those days. based on fairness and equity—but there have been some disappointing, although I would also say unsurprising, contributions from Government Members. The Minister’s Sheila Gilmore: My hon. Friend has been revisiting speech in particular seemed to confirm that the Government the 1970s. A remarkable statistic is that in 1979, the have their head in the sand when it comes to their disastrous inequality gap in this country was at its narrowest since economic policies and performance. Manufacturing the second world war. Perhaps, if we think that reducing has fallen by 3% since last year, business confidence inequality is a good thing, something was right at and investment are plummeting, growth is flatlining, that time. and the economy desperately needs some emergency care. Borrowing is going up, not down, and it is rising to Kelvin Hopkins: Absolutely. I remember writing papers pay the price of the Government’s failure. My hon. about the massive increase in inequality that occurred Friend the Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) subsequently, during the 1980s, when there were big tax described the position very passionately. cuts for the rich along with rapidly rising unemployment. The hon. Member for Bristol West (Stephen Williams) That resulted in the inequality for which we have not complained bitterly that the Opposition had been stealing really been compensated since. the Liberal Democrats’ policy. He now admits that it is his policy. In fact, he could have written it himself. I Mark Reckless: The hon. Gentleman has spoken of therefore still hope that the Liberal Democrats will go persuading Labour Front Benchers to adopt his policy through the Lobbies with us today to support what will on the 10p tax rate. Does he have similar hopes in be a very measured step towards ensuring that the cost respect of the 98% rate? of deficit reduction is borne by those with the broadest shoulders as well as by those who can bear it least but who are, at present, bearing the brunt. Kelvin Hopkins: No, no. I live in the real world, and I suspect that even my hon. Friends on the Front Bench Mel Stride: The hon. Lady referred to the hon. Member will not start considering 98% marginal tax rates. for Bristol West (Stephen Williams), who asked a simple George Bernard Shaw, a witty man but a socialist, question of her Front-Bench team: will a mansion tax who was paying 98%, said, “I consider myself to be a be in the next Labour party manifesto, yes or no? tax collector for the Government, in return for which I receive a 2% premium.” I thought that that was one way Catherine McKinnell: We gave a simple response to of putting it. Shaw was, as I said, a socialist, who no that question—[Interruption.] First, we challenged the doubt accepted that wealthy people such as himself Minister to say what would be in the Government’s should pay substantially more than the poor. Budget next week. He will not specify that, so we are 209 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 210 not able to announce at this stage what will be in our our policy of a mansion tax and that the tax cut that manifesto in two years’ time. If it is appropriate and a Labour is talking about is reintroducing the 10p tax mansion tax will seek to deal with the mess that we rate? anticipate this Government are going to leave this country’s finance in, it is certainly something we will consider. Catherine McKinnell: We have made Labour’s approach clear. We have said that we would like to fund a 10p tax Mel Stride: Is the hon. Lady seriously suggesting that rate for the lowest earners. We have not specified that just because a Minister will not make a serious breach that is what the Government should do with this; we of parliamentary protocol by leaking a Budget in advance have said that it should be used to fund a tax cut for she will not inform the House whether her party will those on low and middle incomes. So if the Liberal have a mansion tax in its next manifesto? Democrats want to support us in the Lobby, they can then pressure the Government to use that money in any Catherine McKinnell: No. That illustrates why the way they see fit. Government were not giving away what they are going So let me remind the House of the context of today’s to do in next week’s Budget, but we have said clearly debate. Many of our constituents are struggling to that if we were in government now, we would not be make ends meet, due to a combination of under- cutting taxes for millionaires. We would be looking to employment, stagnating wages, rising food, fuel and put in place a mansion tax, which the Liberal Democrats child care costs, and of course the Government’s hike would support, and we would be using that to take a on VAT. Our constituents will be further hit by a measured approach to deficit reduction. Unfortunately, £6.7 billion cut in working-age benefits and tax credits we are not in government. The Chancellor is presiding over the next four years. [Interruption.] The Under- over a flatlining economy, so we are suggesting a way Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, for him to try to get some growth back into the economy the right hon. Member for Bath (Mr Foster)—the Liberal —we hope that the Liberal Democrats will support us Democrat Minister—is groaning but that is the reality today and proposals will come forward. for many families up and down the country. At the same time, we read of hundreds of bankers at different financial Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): My hon. institutions, including one owned by the state, earning Friend should take no lessons from Conservative Members, more than £1 million per year. We have a Chancellor because when they were in opposition they refused to seeking but failing to use his ever-diminishing influence specify—apart from supporting Labour’s spending plans— in Europe to fight against proposals to limit bankers’ any of the policies that would be in their 2010 manifesto. bonuses to “just a year’s salary”. We have a coalition Government who will give the 13,000 people in this Catherine McKinnell: I thank my hon. Friend for his country earning more than £1 million a year a tax cut of impassioned slap-down of the hon. Member for Central £100,000 next month. No wonder people are angry and Devon (Mel Stride). What is clear from today’s contributions no wonder our economy is not growing when ordinary is the gap between what Labour Members—and, we people cannot afford to spend and invest. We—or, more hope, Liberal Democrat Members—believe to be the accurately, the Prime Minister—heard only last week fair and right thing to do, and what many Conservative from the OBR that fiscal consolidation measures have Members believe. reduced economic growth over the past couple of years. As I said, the Opposition motion is based on a simple premise: a mansion tax on properties worth more than Stewart Hosie: The hon. Lady is absolutely right that £2 million should be part of a fair taxation system and the tax cut for millionaires is dreadfully unfair, but can used to fund a tax cut for millions of people on middle she explain why, when the Labour party had the chance, and low incomes. Let us be honest—I know that it failed to oppose the tax cut for millionaires? Government Members cannot stay in denial of this any longer—those people are finding that their household Catherine McKinnell: These arguments have been budgets are seriously squeezed. An increasing number rehearsed many times and we have made clear our of hard-working families up and down the country are absolute opposition to cutting the top rate of tax at this reaching breaking point. A number of hon. Members time while slapping charges on the poorest in society. gave heartfelt accounts of the difficulties that many of No wonder the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) their constituents are facing: the rise in the use of food has spoken of the Government’s need to neutralise banks; the VAT increase; rising energy and fuel bills, rail claims that they cut taxes for the rich. fares; and other household budget difficulties. Let us look at the Opposition motion, because I Stephen Williams rose— think the Liberal Democrats are dancing on the head of a pin when they say that they cannot support it. It calls for the introduction of a charge on properties worth Catherine McKinnell: I will give way to the hon. more than £2 million, a mansion tax that the Liberal Gentleman because he has been mentioned twice. Democrats have estimated would raise £2 billion. We say that it could be used to fund a 10p tax band of up to Stephen Williams: The hon. Lady again mentioned £1,000, benefiting 25 million basic rate taxpayers to the the tax cut for millions of people on middle and low tune of £100. We believe that Liberal Democrat Members incomes, which is in the Labour motion and indeed the should put aside their loyalty to the Conservatives and coalition Government’s alternative. Will she confirm vote in favour of a principle—the principle of tax that the tax cut in the Labour motion matches up with fairness at a time when so little of it is in evidence from what the Labour leader said last month when endorsing this Government. 211 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 212

[Catherine McKinnell] is drawing up detailed proposals for an annual charge on high-value residential properties owned by companies, How could the Liberal Democrats do otherwise? Only partnerships or investment vehicles. It demonstrates last month, they made the introduction of a mansion that our plans—Liberal Democrat and Labour plans—for tax the centrepiece of their Eastleigh by-election campaign. a mansion tax, an annual charge on high-value residential Recent media appearances have certainly suggested that properties owned by private individuals, are entirely they will support the principle, with the Business Secretary feasible, entirely realistic and entirely possible. declaring that if the Opposition motion Our motion calls on the Government to bring forward “is purely a statement of support for the principle of a mansion proposals for a mansion tax, so that they can be considered tax I’m sure my colleagues would want to support it.” in more detail by the House. The Opposition motion is Asked again at the weekend which part of the Opposition simply expressed; it responds to Liberal Democrat concerns, motion he disagreed with, the Liberal Democrat president, and we still hope they will support us by voting for it. It the hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim calls for a tax on individuals fortunate enough to live in Farron), replied, “None of it.”The former leader, the right a high-value residential property, to support a tax cut hon. Lord Ashdown, declared that it would be “weird” for millions of hard-working low and middle-income if the Liberal Democrats voted against it. He is not the families up and down the country at a time when they first person to call Liberal Democrats weird, but they have desperately need our support to put money back into the opportunity to put that right today and to get on the household pockets and demand back into the economy. road to normality by supporting their own policy. The motion provides all Members with the opportunity to demonstrate their support for a tax system based on Only yesterday, the hon. Member for Bristol West—I fairness and equity, and I commend it to the House. shall mention him one last time—said of the Opposition motion, “I could have written it myself”, 3.45 pm yet today he complains that we have stolen his party’s TheParliamentaryUnder-Secretaryof StateforCommunities policy. If such childishness gets in the way of the Liberal and Local Government (Mr Don Foster): I begin by Democrats supporting their own policy in the Lobby, thanking those Members who gave a welcome to my members of the public will be baffled and extremely hon. Friend the Member for Eastleigh (Mike Thornton). disappointed. I join them by adding my own welcome. The hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North Stephen Williams rose— (Catherine McKinnell) is absolutely right. The debate may have been robust, but it was genuinely thoughtful. Catherine McKinnell: I would give way, but I am It is thus a great disappointment that when she closed running out of time. the debate and the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) opened it, they did not take the opportunity We think that the Opposition motion presents those to apologise to the country for the Labour Government’s of us who believe in a fair and equitable taxation system with role in creating the economic difficulties in which we the opportunity to demonstrate that fact by voting in find ourselves. The hon. Member for Swansea West favour of it today. Will this be yet another example of (Geraint Davies) was right too. On the Government the Liberal Democrats saying one thing to the electorate Benches and in the country at large, we say “What a fine and doing something very different in government? mess you’ve left us.” What about their partners in crime—I am sorry, Mr Deputy Speaker, I mean partners in government—the I congratulate the Opposition on their proposal, because Conservatives? We know that an increasing number of one good thing happened today: after three years of Conservative Members fear that they appear out of opposing our revenue-raising policies, three years of touch and that some, most notably the hon. Members opposing our cuts and three years of failing to propose for Harlow, for Camborne and Redruth (George Eustice), a single solution for the economic mess they left us, I am for Aberconwy (Guto Bebb) and for Cleethorpes (Martin glad that in the Chamber today they have at last put Vickers), all of whom are noticeably absent from the forward an actual concrete policy. As we heard, it is a Chamber, have argued that a way to counter that impression Liberal Democrat policy, but I am delighted that Labour would be to reintroduce a 10p tax rate. Members now support our mansion tax. I shall be even more delighted when it takes pride of place in my I have argued before that the best way to neutralise party’s election manifesto in 2015—something I can say the impression that the Government are out of touch but they apparently cannot. and only cut taxes for the rich is to stop cutting taxes for the rich, such as the millionaires’ tax cut that will take effect from April. I also acknowledge that it was a Geraint Davies: Will the Minister give way? mistake to get rid of the 10p rate in 2007, although it enabled the 22p rate to be reduced to the 20p rate that is Mr Foster: Let me make a little progress and I will still in place today. happily give way. We believe that the best way to fund a new 10p tax We have been perfectly up front: this is a matter band is through the mansion tax. Many right hon. and on which the two parties in the coalition disagree. As hon. Members have expressed concerns about how the my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Stephen mansion tax would work in practice, about how properties Williams) made clear in an excellent speech, the would be valued and about how people who live in Conservatives have always been vocal in their opposition £2 million properties but are apparently cash poor to such a scheme and Liberal Democrats have always would pay. We have also heard, however, that the Treasury been vocal in our support for it. 213 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 214

Catherine McKinnell: May I put a suggestion to the out of paying tax altogether. Whereas in 2000 they gave Minister? If Liberal Democrat Members support the pensioners a miserable 75p a week pension increase, last motion and the Government bring forward proposals, year we gave the biggest ever increase of £5.30 a week. they would not need to include the scheme in their next manifesto. Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab): Will the Minister explain why he thinks it is fair that at the same Mr Foster: I may return to the hon. Lady’s comments time as they introduce the bedroom tax, the Government in a second. find money to give the richest people in the country a We are supportive of the motion because we agree tax break? with Adam Smith, the father of free market economics. He supported higher taxes on property to reduce taxes Mr Foster: We are not here to discuss the under- on more industrious endeavours. We think it unfair that occupancy arrangements. Let me remind the hon. the richest people in the country pay the same council Gentleman, who has breezed into the Chamber, that we tax on their multi-million pound palaces as a family in a have had discussions on many occasions about this. I three-bedroom house in the suburbs. We agree on that. am aware of 300,000-odd families with two or more spare bedrooms and 250,000 families who are overcrowded, Both parties in the coalition have been open about so it is right and proper that we take action to try to our disagreement, but the Opposition’s attempt to drive help them out, and that is what we are doing. I am more a wedge between us is infantile. Both parties know than happy to talk about this Government’s record on where we stand, and the public are clear about it too. fairness. The hon. Lady has to remember that all coalition tax policy is made by agreement between the Conservatives Geraint Davies: Will the Minister give way? and the Liberal Democrats, and mansion tax is an issue on which we simply could not agree. However much Mr Foster: No, I will not. Liberal Democrats want a mansion tax, we know that the country’s economic future would be in severe jeopardy A number of speakers debated the 50p tax— if the coalition fell apart on this issue. The country’s [Interruption.] future is far too important for us to engage in the Opposition’s petty political games. Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. Mr Davies, you have spoken. It is up to the Minister Chris Leslie: On the point about putting about coalition when he gives way. It is not for you to keep reminding first, to save us a great deal of time and effort, can the him, saying that he should give way. Minister tell us if there is any circumstance in which he envisages that he could ever support any motion tabled Mr Foster: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. by the Opposition? It is worth repeating yet again that the Opposition put the 50p tax rate in place for a whopping 36 out of Mr Foster: As I said, this is the first time in three their 4,758 days in power. As my hon. Friend the years that we have had any positive proposal from the Exchequer Secretary made clear, a recent review showed Opposition in the Chamber. If the hon. Gentleman that the additional rate is a distortive and economically comes forward with further proposals to help deal with inefficient way of raising revenue. So we have decided— the economic mess that his Government left us, we will sensibly, in my view—that it is neither efficient nor fair seriously consider them. to maintain a tax rate that is not effective at raising revenue from high earners and risks damaging growth. Sheila Gilmore rose— That is why we have introduced a top rate of 45p, which will be higher than the top rate that existed under Labour for all but 36 days of their 13 years in office. Mr Foster: No, I will not give way to the hon. Lady. It is not true to suggest, as some have done, that the It is worth reminding ourselves that although we as Government are not requiring the wealthiest to pay Liberal Democrats accept that a mansion tax would be more. We have continually increased the tax contribution a further step in creating greater fairness, by being part of the richest since the election. The 2010 Budget introduced of the coalition with our Conservative colleagues we a higher rate of capital gains tax; the 2011 Budget have made huge strides towards building a fairer society tackled avoidance through disguised remuneration; and and a stronger economy. I agree with the hon. Members the 2012 Budget increased stamp duty land tax to 7% for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) and for Scunthorpe on residential properties costing £2 million or more. We (Nic Dakin), who said that creating fairness is vital. Our are also the Government who took action in the autumn achievements in doing so are in marked contrast to statement to reduce the cost of pensions tax relief, and those of the Labour Government. we introduced a 15% rate of stamp duty for properties owned through a corporate vehicle. I am grateful to my Geraint Davies: Will the Minister give way? hon. Friend the Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) for a number of suggestions of further Mr Foster: No. measures that we can take in this area, which we will The previous Government introduced the fuel duty certainly consider, but I can confirm that if a property escalator, hitting the pockets of families and businesses, is taken out of a corporate envelope, SDLT will be paid whereas we have taken steps that will make pump prices in full. 13p per litre lower than they would have been under As a result of the Government’s actions, the richest Labour. They abolished the 10p tax rate, hitting 800,000 pay more tax on capital gains, more stamp duty on their single earners, whereas we are taking 2.2 million people homes, more tax on their pension contributions, and 215 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 216

[Mr Foster] Campbell, Mr Alan Harris, Mr Tom Campbell, Mr Ronnie Havard, Mr Dai more on income tax. As the Institute for Fiscal Studies Caton, Martin Healey, rh John has confirmed, the rich are now paying a higher percentage Champion, Sarah Hendrick, Mark of income tax than at any time under the previous Chapman, Jenny Hepburn, Mr Stephen Administration. Given our measures to boost compliance, Clark, Katy Hillier, Meg Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hilling, Julie more of the tax owed will be collected. I thank the hon. Clwyd, rh Ann Hodge, rh Margaret Member for Scunthorpe for his praise for our work in Coaker, Vernon Hodgson, Mrs Sharon this area. Coffey, Ann Hoey, Kate As well as making the wealthiest in society pay more, Cooper, Rosie Hood, Mr Jim we are asking less of the poorest in this country. As the Cooper, rh Yvette Hopkins, Kelvin hon. Gentleman said, we are helping the hard-working Corbyn, Jeremy Howarth, rh Mr George families in this country. From April 2013, the income tax Crausby, Mr David Hunt, Tristram personal allowance will increase yet again by £1,335 in Creagh, Mary Irranca-Davies, Huw cash terms to £9,440. This change will benefit 24 million Creasy, Stella James, Mrs Siân C. individuals, lift an additional 1.1 million out of income Cruddas, Jon Jamieson, Cathy Cryer, John Jarvis, Dan tax altogether, and provide a real-terms gain of £223 a Cunningham, Alex Johnson, rh Alan year to basic rate taxpayers. Cunningham, Mr Jim Johnson, Diana In total, the coalition’s actions since we came into Cunningham, Sir Tony Jones, Graham office mean that 2.2 million people under the age of Curran, Margaret Jones, Helen 65 will have moved out of paying income tax altogether, Dakin, Nic Jones, Mr Kevan and there is a tax cut of £600 for more than 20 million Danczuk, Simon Jones, Susan Elan people. We are proud of the way in which we are putting Darling, rh Mr Alistair Jowell, rh Dame Tessa fairness firmly on the agenda. As the Secretary of State David, Wayne Joyce, Eric for Business, Innovation and Skills said earlier today, Davidson, Mr Ian Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Davies, Geraint Keeley, Barbara parties should be judged on what they deliver on fairer De Piero, Gloria Kendall, Liz taxes, not on what they say about them. It is deeds not Denham, rh Mr John Khan, rh Sadiq words. Dobbin, Jim Lammy, rh Mr David The Labour party when in office failed to back our Dobson, rh Frank Lavery, Ian mansion tax proposals, and now we are not even clear Doran, Mr Frank Lazarowicz, Mark whether it is willing to include a mansion tax in its 2015 Doughty, Stephen Leslie, Chris manifesto. The Liberal Democrats have made it clear Dowd, Jim Lewis, Mr Ivan that we are in favour of such a scheme, but I urge my Dromey, Jack Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn colleagues to support the Government’s amendment, Dugher, Michael Love, Mr Andrew which reiterates our party’s support for the mansion tax Durkan, Mark Lucas, Caroline Eagle, Ms Angela Lucas, Ian without putting the coalition Government at risk. It is Eagle, Maria Mactaggart, Fiona the country’s economy and people that need a strong, Efford, Clive Mahmood, Mr Khalid co-operative and working Government, which this coalition Elliott, Julie Mahmood, Shabana Government are providing. The do not need a Labour Ellman, Mrs Louise Malhotra, Seema party playing the exact kind of cynical political games Engel, Natascha Mann, John that the public so revile. The hon. Member for Ashfield Esterson, Bill Marsden, Mr Gordon (Gloria De Piero) said that the public disliked infantile Evans, Chris McCabe, Steve Punch and Judy politics. So do I, and that is why I urge Farrelly, Paul McCann, Mr Michael the House to support the amendment. Field, rh Mr Frank McCarthy, Kerry Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the Fitzpatrick, Jim McClymont, Gregg Flello, Robert McCrea, Dr William original words stand part of the Question. Flint, rh Caroline McDonagh, Siobhain The House divided: Ayes 241, Noes 304. Flynn, Paul McDonald, Andy Fovargue, Yvonne McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Division No. 179] [3.58 pm Francis, Dr Hywel McDonnell, John Gapes, Mike McFadden, rh Mr Pat AYES Gardiner, Barry McGovern, Alison Abrahams, Debbie Benton, Mr Joe Gilmore, Sheila McGovern, Jim Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Berger, Luciana Glass, Pat McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Blackman-Woods, Roberta Glindon, Mrs Mary McKechin, Ann Ali, Rushanara Blears, rh Hazel Godsiff, Mr Roger McKenzie, Mr Iain Allen, Mr Graham Blenkinsop, Tom Goggins, rh Paul McKinnell, Catherine Ashworth, Jonathan Blomfield, Paul Goodman, Helen Meacher, rh Mr Michael Austin, Ian Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Greatrex, Tom Meale, Sir Alan Bailey, Mr Adrian Brennan, Kevin Green, Kate Mearns, Ian Bain, Mr William Brown, Lyn Greenwood, Lilian Miliband, rh David Balls, rh Ed Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Griffith, Nia Miliband, rh Edward Banks, Gordon Brown, Mr Russell Gwynne, Andrew Miller, Andrew Barron, rh Mr Kevin Bryant, Chris Hain, rh Mr Peter Mitchell, Austin Bayley, Hugh Buck, Ms Karen Hamilton, Mr David Morden, Jessica Beckett, rh Margaret Burden, Richard Hamilton, Fabian Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Begg, Dame Anne Burnham, rh Andy Hanson, rh Mr David Morris, Grahame M. Benn, rh Hilary Byrne, rh Mr Liam Harman, rh Ms Harriet (Easington) 217 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 218

Mudie, Mr George Sheridan, Jim de Bois, Nick Hurd, Mr Nick Murphy, rh Mr Jim Shuker, Gavin Dinenage, Caroline Jackson, Mr Stewart Murphy, rh Paul Simpson, David Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Javid, Sajid Murray, Ian Skinner, Mr Dennis Dorries, Nadine Jenkin, Mr Bernard Nandy, Lisa Slaughter, Mr Andy Doyle-Price, Jackie Johnson, Gareth Nash, Pamela Smith, rh Mr Andrew Drax, Richard Johnson, Joseph O’Donnell, Fiona Smith, Angela Duddridge, James Jones, Andrew Onwurah, Chi Smith, Nick Duncan, rh Mr Alan Jones, rh Mr David Owen, Albert Smith, Owen Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Jones, Mr Marcus Pearce, Teresa Straw, rh Mr Jack Dunne, Mr Philip Kawczynski, Daniel Perkins, Toby Stringer, Graham Ellis, Michael Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Phillipson, Bridget Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry Ellison, Jane Kirby, Simon Pound, Stephen Tami, Mark Ellwood, Mr Tobias Knight, rh Mr Greg Powell, Lucy Thomas, Mr Gareth Elphicke, Charlie Laing, Mrs Eleanor Qureshi, Yasmin Thornberry, Emily Eustice, George Lancaster, Mark Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Timms, rh Stephen Evans, Graham Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Reed, Mr Jamie Trickett, Jon Evans, Jonathan Latham, Pauline Reed, Steve Turner, Karl Evennett, Mr David Laws, rh Mr David Reynolds, Emma Twigg, Derek Fabricant, Michael Leadsom, Andrea Reynolds, Jonathan Twigg, Stephen Fallon, rh Michael Lee, Jessica Riordan, Mrs Linda Umunna, Mr Chuka Farron, Tim Leech, Mr John Robertson, John Vaz, Valerie Featherstone, Lynne Lefroy, Jeremy Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Walley, Joan Field, Mark Leigh, Mr Edward Rotheram, Steve Watts, Mr Dave Foster, rh Mr Don Leslie, Charlotte Roy, Mr Frank Whitehead, Dr Alan Fox,rhDrLiam Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Roy, Lindsay Williamson, Chris Francois, rh Mr Mark Lewis, Brandon Ruane, Chris Winnick, Mr David Freeman, George Lewis, Dr Julian Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Freer, Mike Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Sarwar, Anas Woodcock, John Fuller, Richard Lilley, rh Mr Peter Sawford, Andy Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Garnier, Sir Edward Lloyd, Stephen Seabeck, Alison Wright, David Garnier, Mark Lopresti, Jack Shannon, Jim Tellers for the Ayes: Gauke, Mr David Lord, Jonathan Sharma, Mr Virendra Heidi Alexander and George, Andrew Loughton, Tim Sheerman, Mr Barry Phil Wilson Gibb, Mr Nick Luff, Peter Gilbert, Stephen Macleod, Mary Glen, John Main, Mrs Anne NOES Goldsmith, Zac Maude, rh Mr Francis Afriyie, Adam Browne, Mr Jeremy Goodwill, Mr Robert May, rh Mrs Theresa Aldous, Peter Bruce, Fiona Gove, rh Michael Maynard, Paul Alexander, rh Danny Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Grant, Mrs Helen McCartney, Jason Amess, Mr David Buckland, Mr Robert Gray, Mr James McCartney, Karl Andrew, Stuart Burley, Mr Aidan Grayling, rh Chris McIntosh, Miss Anne Bacon, Mr Richard Burns, Conor Green, rh Damian McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Baker, Norman Burns, rh Mr Simon Grieve, rh Mr Dominic McPartland, Stephen Baker, Steve Burrowes, Mr David Gyimah, Mr Sam McVey, Esther Baldwin, Harriett Burstow, rh Paul Hague, rh Mr William Menzies, Mark Barclay, Stephen Burt, Lorely Hames, Duncan Mercer, Patrick Barker, rh Gregory Byles, Dan Hammond, rh Mr Philip Metcalfe, Stephen Baron, Mr John Cable, rh Vince Hammond, Stephen Miller, rh Maria Barwell, Gavin Cairns, Alun Hancock, Matthew Mills, Nigel Bebb, Guto Cameron, rh Mr David Harper, Mr Mark Milton, Anne Beith, rh Sir Alan Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Harrington, Richard Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Bellingham, Mr Henry Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Harris, Rebecca Morgan, Nicky Benyon, Richard Carmichael, Neil Hart, Simon Morris, Anne Marie Beresford, Sir Paul Carswell, Mr Douglas Harvey, Sir Nick Morris, James Berry, Jake Cash, Mr William Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Mosley, Stephen Bingham, Andrew Chishti, Rehman Hayes, Mr John Mowat, David Birtwistle, Gordon Chope, Mr Christopher Heaton-Harris, Chris Mulholland, Greg Blackman, Bob Clappison, Mr James Hemming, John Mundell, rh David Blackwood, Nicola Clark, rh Greg Henderson, Gordon Munt, Tessa Blunt, Mr Crispin Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Hendry, Charles Murray, Sheryll Boles, Nick Clegg, rh Mr Nick Herbert, rh Nick Newton, Sarah Bone, Mr Peter Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hinds, Damian Nokes, Caroline Bottomley, Sir Peter Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hollingbery, George Norman, Jesse Bradley, Karen Collins, Damian Hollobone, Mr Philip Nuttall, Mr David Brady, Mr Graham Colvile, Oliver Holloway, Mr Adam O’Brien, Mr Stephen Brake, rh Tom Crabb, Stephen Hopkins, Kris Offord, Dr Matthew Bray, Angie Crockart, Mike Horwood, Martin Ollerenshaw, Eric Brazier, Mr Julian Crouch, Tracey Howarth, Sir Gerald Opperman, Guy Bridgen, Andrew Davey, rh Mr Edward Howell, John Osborne, rh Mr George Brine, Steve Davies, Glyn Hughes, rh Simon Ottaway, Richard Brooke, Annette Davis, rh Mr David Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Parish, Neil 219 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 220

Patel, Priti Stuart, Mr Graham Bray, Angie George, Andrew Paterson, rh Mr Owen Stunell, rh Andrew Brazier, Mr Julian Gibb, Mr Nick Pawsey, Mark Sturdy, Julian Bridgen, Andrew Gilbert, Stephen Penrose, John Swales, Ian Brine, Steve Glen, John Percy, Andrew Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Brooke, Annette Goldsmith, Zac Perry, Claire Swinson, Jo Browne, Mr Jeremy Goodwill, Mr Robert Phillips, Stephen Swire, rh Mr Hugo Bruce, Fiona Gove, rh Michael Pickles, rh Mr Eric Syms, Mr Robert Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Grant, Mrs Helen Pincher, Christopher Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Buckland, Mr Robert Grayling, rh Chris Poulter, Dr Daniel Teather, Sarah Burley, Mr Aidan Green, rh Damian Prisk, Mr Mark Thornton, Mike Burns, Conor Grieve, rh Mr Dominic Pugh, John Timpson, Mr Edward Burns, rh Mr Simon Gyimah, Mr Sam Raab, Mr Dominic Tomlinson, Justin Burrowes, Mr David Hague, rh Mr William Randall, rh Mr John Tredinnick, David Burstow, rh Paul Hames, Duncan Reckless, Mark Truss, Elizabeth Burt, Lorely Hammond, Stephen Redwood, rh Mr John Turner, Mr Andrew Byles, Dan Hancock, Matthew Rees-Mogg, Jacob Tyrie, Mr Andrew Cable, rh Vince Harper, Mr Mark Reevell, Simon Uppal, Paul Cairns, Alun Harrington, Richard Reid, Mr Alan Vara, Mr Shailesh Cameron, rh Mr David Harris, Rebecca Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Vickers, Martin Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Hart, Simon Robertson, rh Hugh Walker, Mr Robin Carmichael, rh Mr Alistair Harvey, Sir Nick Rogerson, Dan Wallace, Mr Ben Carmichael, Neil Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Rosindell, Andrew Ward, Mr David Carswell, Mr Douglas Hayes, Mr John Rudd, Amber Watkinson, Dame Angela Cash, Mr William Heaton-Harris, Chris Rutley, David Weatherley, Mike Chishti, Rehman Hemming, John Sanders, Mr Adrian Webb, Steve Chope, Mr Christopher Henderson, Gordon Sandys, Laura Wharton, James Clappison, Mr James Hendry, Charles Scott, Mr Lee Wheeler, Heather Clark, rh Greg Herbert, rh Nick Selous, Andrew White, Chris Clegg, rh Mr Nick Hinds, Damian Shelbrooke, Alec Whittaker, Craig Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hollingbery, George Shepherd, Sir Richard Whittingdale, Mr John Coffey, Dr Thérèse Hollobone, Mr Philip Simpson, Mr Keith Wiggin, Bill Collins, Damian Holloway, Mr Adam Skidmore, Chris Willetts, rh Mr David Colvile, Oliver Hopkins, Kris Smith, Miss Chloe Williams, Mr Mark Cox, Mr Geoffrey Horwood, Martin Smith, Henry Williams, Roger Crabb, Stephen Howarth, Sir Gerald Smith, Julian Williams, Stephen Crockart, Mike Howell, John Smith, Sir Robert Williamson, Gavin Crouch, Tracey Hughes, rh Simon Soubry, Anna Wilson, Mr Rob Davey, rh Mr Edward Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Wollaston, Dr Sarah Davies, David T. C. Huppert, Dr Julian Spencer, Mr Mark Wright, Jeremy (Monmouth) Hurd, Mr Nick Davies, Glyn Jackson, Mr Stewart Stanley, rh Sir John Wright, Simon Stephenson, Andrew de Bois, Nick Javid, Sajid Yeo, Mr Tim Stevenson, John Dinenage, Caroline Jenkin, Mr Bernard Young, rh Sir George Stewart, Iain Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Johnson, Gareth Stewart, Rory Tellers for the Noes: Dorries, Nadine Johnson, Joseph Streeter, Mr Gary Mark Hunter and Doyle-Price, Jackie Jones, Andrew Stride, Mel Greg Hands Drax, Richard Jones, rh Mr David Duddridge, James Jones, Mr Marcus Question accordingly negatived. Duncan, rh Mr Alan Kawczynski, Daniel Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the Ellis, Michael Kirby, Simon proposed words be there added. Ellison, Jane Knight, rh Mr Greg The House divided: Ayes 301, Noes 246. Ellwood, Mr Tobias Laing, Mrs Eleanor Elphicke, Charlie Lancaster, Mark Division No. 180] [4.12 pm Eustice, George Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Evans, Graham Latham, Pauline AYES Evans, Jonathan Laws, rh Mr David Afriyie, Adam Bellingham, Mr Henry Evennett, Mr David Leadsom, Andrea Aldous, Peter Benyon, Richard Fabricant, Michael Lee, Jessica Alexander, rh Danny Beresford, Sir Paul Fallon, rh Michael Leech, Mr John Amess, Mr David Berry, Jake Farron, Tim Lefroy, Jeremy Andrew, Stuart Bingham, Andrew Featherstone, Lynne Leigh, Mr Edward Bacon, Mr Richard Birtwistle, Gordon Field, Mark Leslie, Charlotte Baker, Norman Blackman, Bob Foster, rh Mr Don Lewis, Dr Julian Baker, Steve Blackwood, Nicola Fox,rhDrLiam Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Baldwin, Harriett Blunt, Mr Crispin Francois, rh Mr Mark Lilley, rh Mr Peter Barclay, Stephen Boles, Nick Freeman, George Lloyd, Stephen Barker, rh Gregory Bone, Mr Peter Freer, Mike Lopresti, Jack Baron, Mr John Bottomley, Sir Peter Fuller, Richard Lord, Jonathan Barwell, Gavin Bradley, Karen Garnier, Sir Edward Loughton, Tim Bebb, Guto Brady, Mr Graham Garnier, Mark Luff, Peter Beith, rh Sir Alan Brake, rh Tom Gauke, Mr David Macleod, Mary 221 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 222

Main, Mrs Anne Shelbrooke, Alec Ashworth, Jonathan Evans, Chris Maude, rh Mr Francis Shepherd, Sir Richard Austin, Ian Farrelly, Paul Maynard, Paul Simpson, David Bailey, Mr Adrian Field, rh Mr Frank McCartney, Jason Simpson, Mr Keith Bain, Mr William Fitzpatrick, Jim McCartney, Karl Skidmore, Chris Balls, rh Ed Flello, Robert McCrea, Dr William Smith, Miss Chloe Banks, Gordon Flint, rh Caroline McIntosh, Miss Anne Smith, Henry Barron, rh Mr Kevin Flynn, Paul McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Smith, Julian Bayley, Hugh Fovargue, Yvonne McPartland, Stephen Smith, Sir Robert Beckett, rh Margaret Francis, Dr Hywel McVey, Esther Soubry, Anna Begg, Dame Anne Gapes, Mike Menzies, Mark Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Benn, rh Hilary Gardiner, Barry Mercer, Patrick Spencer, Mr Mark Benton, Mr Joe Gilmore, Sheila Metcalfe, Stephen Stanley, rh Sir John Berger, Luciana Glass, Pat Miller, rh Maria Stephenson, Andrew Blackman-Woods, Roberta Glindon, Mrs Mary Mills, Nigel Stevenson, John Blenkinsop, Tom Godsiff, Mr Roger Milton, Anne Stewart, Iain Blomfield, Paul Goggins, rh Paul Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Stewart, Rory Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben Goodman, Helen Morgan, Nicky Streeter, Mr Gary Brennan, Kevin Greatrex, Tom Morris, Anne Marie Stride, Mel Brown, Lyn Green, Kate Morris, James Stuart, Mr Graham Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Greenwood, Lilian Mosley, Stephen Stunell, rh Andrew Brown, Mr Russell Griffith, Nia Mowat, David Sturdy, Julian Bryant, Chris Gwynne, Andrew Mulholland, Greg Swales, Ian Buck, Ms Karen Hain, rh Mr Peter Mundell, rh David Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Burden, Richard Hamilton, Mr David Munt, Tessa Swinson, Jo Burnham, rh Andy Hamilton, Fabian Murray, Sheryll Swire, rh Mr Hugo Byrne, rh Mr Liam Hanson, rh Mr David Nokes, Caroline Syms, Mr Robert Campbell, Mr Alan Harman, rh Ms Harriet Norman, Jesse Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Campbell, Mr Ronnie Harris, Mr Tom Nuttall, Mr David Teather, Sarah Caton, Martin Havard, Mr Dai O’Brien, Mr Stephen Thornton, Mike Champion, Sarah Healey, rh John Offord, Dr Matthew Timpson, Mr Edward Chapman, Jenny Hendrick, Mark Ollerenshaw, Eric Tomlinson, Justin Clark, Katy Hepburn, Mr Stephen Opperman, Guy Tredinnick, David Clarke, rh Mr Tom Hillier, Meg Osborne, rh Mr George Truss, Elizabeth Clwyd, rh Ann Hilling, Julie Ottaway, Richard Turner, Mr Andrew Coaker, Vernon Hodge, rh Margaret Parish, Neil Tyrie, Mr Andrew Coffey, Ann Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Patel, Priti Uppal, Paul Cooper, Rosie Hoey, Kate Paterson, rh Mr Owen Vara, Mr Shailesh Cooper, rh Yvette Hood, Mr Jim Pawsey, Mark Vickers, Martin Corbyn, Jeremy Hopkins, Kelvin Penrose, John Walker, Mr Charles Crausby, Mr David Hosie, Stewart Percy, Andrew Walker, Mr Robin Creagh, Mary Howarth, rh Mr George Perry, Claire Wallace, Mr Ben Creasy, Stella Hunt, Tristram Phillips, Stephen Ward, Mr David Cruddas, Jon Irranca-Davies, Huw Pickles, rh Mr Eric Watkinson, Dame Angela Cryer, John James, Mrs Siân C. Pincher, Christopher Webb, Steve Cunningham, Alex Jamieson, Cathy Poulter, Dr Daniel Wharton, James Cunningham, Mr Jim Jarvis, Dan Prisk, Mr Mark Wheeler, Heather Cunningham, Sir Tony Johnson, rh Alan Pugh, John White, Chris Curran, Margaret Johnson, Diana Raab, Mr Dominic Whittaker, Craig Dakin, Nic Jones, Graham Randall, rh Mr John Whittingdale, Mr John Danczuk, Simon Jones, Helen Reckless, Mark Wiggin, Bill Darling, rh Mr Alistair Jones, Mr Kevan Redwood, rh Mr John Willetts, rh Mr David David, Wayne Jones, Susan Elan Rees-Mogg, Jacob Williams, Mr Mark Davidson, Mr Ian Jowell, rh Dame Tessa Reevell, Simon Williams, Roger Davies, Geraint Joyce, Eric Reid, Mr Alan Williams, Stephen De Piero, Gloria Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Williamson, Gavin Denham, rh Mr John Keeley, Barbara Robertson, rh Hugh Wilson, Mr Rob Dobbin, Jim Kendall, Liz Rogerson, Dan Wollaston, Dr Sarah Dobson, rh Frank Khan, rh Sadiq Rosindell, Andrew Wright, Jeremy Doran, Mr Frank Lammy, rh Mr David Doughty, Stephen Lavery, Ian Rudd, Amber Wright, Simon Rutley, David Dowd, Jim Lazarowicz, Mark Yeo, Mr Tim Sanders, Mr Adrian Dromey, Jack Leslie, Chris Young, rh Sir George Sandys, Laura Dugher, Michael Lewis, Mr Ivan Scott, Mr Lee Tellers for the Ayes: Durkan, Mark Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Selous, Andrew Mark Hunter and Eagle, Ms Angela Love, Mr Andrew Shannon, Jim Greg Hands Eagle, Maria Lucas, Caroline Edwards, Jonathan Lucas, Ian NOES Efford, Clive MacNeil, Mr Angus Brendan Abbott, Ms Diane Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Elliott, Julie Mactaggart, Fiona Ellman, Mrs Louise Mahmood, Mr Khalid Abrahams, Debbie Ali, Rushanara Engel, Natascha Mahmood, Shabana Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Allen, Mr Graham Esterson, Bill Malhotra, Seema 223 Tax Fairness12 MARCH 2013 Tax Fairness 224

Mann, John Robertson, John Question accordingly agreed to. Marsden, Mr Gordon Robinson, Mr Geoffrey McCabe, Steve Rotheram, Steve The Deputy Speaker declared the main Question, as McCann, Mr Michael Roy, Mr Frank amended, to be agreed to (Standing Order No. 31(2)). McCarthy, Kerry Roy, Lindsay McClymont, Gregg Ruane, Chris McDonagh, Siobhain Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Resolved, McDonald, Andy Sarwar, Anas That this House notes that this Coalition Government has cut McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Sawford, Andy income tax for 25 million people, taking over 2.2 million low McDonnell, John Seabeck, Alison income individuals out of income tax altogether, while at the McFadden, rh Mr Pat Sharma, Mr Virendra same time increasing taxes on the wealthy, including raising McGovern, Alison Sheerman, Mr Barry stamp duty on expensive properties and restricting tax reliefs; McGovern, Jim Sheridan, Jim further notes that both parts of the Coalition continue to support McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Shuker, Gavin tax cuts for people on low and middle incomes; notes that the part McKechin, Ann Skinner, Mr Dennis of the Coalition led by the Deputy Prime Minister also advocates McKenzie, Mr Iain Slaughter, Mr Andy a mansion tax on properties worth more than £2 million, as set out in his party’s manifesto, and the part of the Coalition led by McKinnell, Catherine Smith, rh Mr Andrew the Prime Minister does not advocate a mansion tax; and further Meacher, rh Mr Michael Smith, Angela notes that the top rate of income tax will be higher under this Meale, Sir Alan Smith, Nick Government than under any year of the previous administration Mearns, Ian Smith, Owen and that the rich are now paying a higher percentage of income Miliband, rh David Straw, rh Mr Jack tax than at any time under the previous administration, demonstrating Miliband, rh Edward Stringer, Graham that it presided over an unfair tax system where the rich paid less Miller, Andrew Sutcliffe, Mr Gerry and the poor paid more in tax than now, meaning nobody will Mitchell, Austin Tami, Mark trust the Opposition’s promises on tax fairness. Morden, Jessica Thomas, Mr Gareth Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Thornberry, Emily 4.25 pm Morris, Grahame M. Timms, rh Stephen (Easington) Mr Liam Byrne (Birmingham, Hodge Hill) (Lab): On Trickett, Jon Mudie, Mr George a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I wonder whether Munn, Meg Turner, Karl you have had any indication from the Government on Murphy, rh Mr Jim Twigg, Derek whether they plan to make an oral statement on the Murphy, rh Paul Twigg, Stephen subject of the bedroom tax. Yesterday, in questions to Murray, Ian Umunna, Mr Chuka the Department for Work and Pensions, Ministers assured Nandy, Lisa Vaz, Valerie us that the scheme was running smoothly, yet this Walley, Joan Nash, Pamela afternoon we have another rushed U-turn that offers no Watts, Mr Dave O’Donnell, Fiona money and no protection for disabled children. Right Onwurah, Chi Weir, Mr Mike Owen, Albert Whiteford, Dr Eilidh hon. and hon. Members would have welcomed the Pearce, Teresa Whitehead, Dr Alan opportunity to put those points directly to the Secretary Perkins, Toby Williams, Hywel of State, and expose today’s announcement for the Phillipson, Bridget Williamson, Chris shallow nonsense that it is. Pound, Stephen Winnick, Mr David Powell, Lucy Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): I can tell the Qureshi, Yasmin Wishart, Pete right hon. Gentleman that the Chair has received no Raynsford, rh Mr Nick Woodcock, John notification that there will be a statement before the Reed, Mr Jamie Woodward, rh Mr Shaun House. I am sure that those on the Treasury Bench and Reed, Steve Wright, David other Secretaries of State will have heard the comments Reynolds, Emma that have been made, and the right hon. Gentleman is Reynolds, Jonathan Tellers for the Noes: well aware that there are other avenues he may wish to Riordan, Mrs Linda Heidi Alexander and pursue. Robertson, Angus Phil Wilson 225 12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 226

Apprenticeships Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab): Does my hon. Friend agree that we can all learn a lot from companies [Relevant documents: The Fifth Report from the Business, such as Airbus, which has trained thousands of apprentices Innovation and Skills Committee, on Apprenticeships, HC 83, over 30 years at both Broughton and Filton? Importantly, and the Government response HC 899.] it has trained people in bad economic years as well as good. We need a consistent approach to apprenticeships, 4.26 pm not the stop-start approach that we have seen over many years. Mr Gordon Marsden (Blackpool South) (Lab): I beg to move, Mr Marsden: I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. That this House notes National Apprenticeship Week, established by the previous Government, and held from 11 to 15 March 2013, Indeed, I would go further and say that a number of which celebrates the value of apprenticeships, particularly in large companies—BAE Systems, for example, where I providing opportunities and developing skills; further notes the was last Thursday—have led the way on this issue need to increase apprenticeship places; and therefore resolves that including with their supply chain. It remains to be seen the Government uses the billions of pounds committed to public whether the Government take that message across a procurement to boost apprenticeships by requiring firms winning broader palette. public contracts worth over £1 million to offer apprenticeship opportunities, implementing the recommendation of the Fifth Report of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, HC 83, Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): on Apprenticeships. My hon. Friend and I worked together on skills and It is a pleasure and honour for me as shadow Minister apprenticeships for many years and, like me, he will know responsible for apprenticeships to open this debate in that the tragedy of our economy is that only about 10% national apprenticeship week. Back in 2008, my right of employers take on apprentices. If we could get the hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen other 90% to take on an apprentice, we could really do (Mr Denham), then the Secretary of State for Innovation, something for young people in this country. Universities and Skills, launched apprenticeship week as a vehicle to promote the real and valuable opportunities Mr Marsden: I had the enormous pleasure of serving that apprenticeships offer. It is a tribute to him that under my hon. Friend when he was the Chair of the national apprenticeship week has since become a central Children, Schools and Families Committee, and he has part of the employment and skills calendar. probably taught me as much as anyone in this House on This is a week in which excellence and aspiration in this subject. He is absolutely right and he hits the nail learning, and acquiring skills and trades in areas as on the head: a step-change in the number of apprenticeships diverse as engineering, construction, the hospitality industry, is central. It is the focus of our motion. joinery, accountancy, and health and social care, are We resurrected that historic badge of excellence, but showcased and celebrated. To see so many MPs from this is not a matter for party politics. When the hon. all sides of the House getting involved and celebrating Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes) apprenticeship achievements in their constituencies is was the Minister with responsibility for apprenticeships, a great thing. We must remember, however, that he spoke movingly about what he had learned about the apprenticeships did not emerge from a blank canvas in value of the skills of hand and eye from his father. I, 2010, as some Government Members have occasionally too, saw those skills through the working life of my implied. father as an engineer. When he was apprenticed at the When Labour came to government in 1997 the age of 14 to the engineering company Crossley Brothers apprenticeship programme was floundering. We resurrected in Manchester just before the second world war, my that historic badge of excellence and made it fit for grandfather told him, “Now Crossleys has taken you purpose in the 21st century. Under the previous Labour on, you will have a job for life.” Government, the number of apprenticeships more than Today’s apprentices often face very different challenges quadrupled. National apprenticeship week was launched and prospects, because many young people can expect to give expanded life chances and skills a focus for to go through half a dozen job or career changes in recognition and celebration, and the Labour Government their lifetime, some probably not even thought of when also set up the National Apprenticeship Service to drive they start their apprenticeship. That means it is critical the project all year round. to get the mix of bespoke and portable skills right at the apprenticeship stage; and that the range, content and Mr Stewart Jackson (Peterborough) (Con): If it was quality remain relevant to the businesses and local all going so swimmingly under the previous Government, economies in which they are embedded. These are why in a period of continued economic growth did challenging issues that demand a co-ordinated and hands-on youth unemployment double and the number of those approach from government, as well as from businesses not in education, employment or training increase year and educators. on year? Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab): On what Mr Marsden: The hon. Gentleman was obviously not can be done at a local level to celebrate apprenticeships listening to what I said because the Labour Government week, I am having a jobs and apprenticeships fair in quadrupled the number of apprenticeships in that period. Bishop Auckland on Friday. I expect 100 jobs and Let us be mature and grown-up about this: no Government apprenticeships to be available to young people. Does of any persuasion have an exact monopoly of success or my hon. Friend agree that the background need is to get failure in any particular area. What matters are the the economy moving? Unemployment in my constituency intentions that are brought to the party, and our intentions is still rising, and seven people are looking at every were very strong and solid. vacancy. 227 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 228

Mr Marsden: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Mr Sheerman: I take a bipartisan approach to these Jobs and skills fairs give a sense of buzz and direction, things, but is not one worry the fact that it is difficult for but we need to look at the position of regional economies. people promoting apprenticeships to get into schools, That is a particular problem in the north-east, not least many of which resist apprenticeships because they want since the excellent lead given by One North East is no to keep bums on seats in return for the financial reward? longer available. That is very common.

Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con): Will the hon. Mr Marsden: Like my hon. Friend the Member for Gentleman give way? Birmingham, Selly Oak (Steve McCabe), my hon. Friend the Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) is telepathic, Mr Marsden: I will make a bit more progress and because I shall be returning to that point later. then let the hon. Gentleman come in if he wishes. The Government are fond of saying that they have As MPs, we rightly celebrate the individual successes created more than 500,000 apprenticeships, but less we observe. I have seen it myself in the development of fond of saying that in axing Train to Gain they also the 19-year-old women whom I took on in my office as axed more than 500,000 training places. Many of these an apprentice. She has come from the excellent Blackpool additional apprenticeships are merely relabelled and and Fylde college and is doing an NVQ3. I know that transferred in-work provision from Train to Gain, as sense of engagement is shared by other parliamentary Doug Richard, the entrepreneur behind the Government’s colleagues who have taken on apprentices, or who are in commissioned report, confirmed last week and as has the process of doing so. been shown by detailed analysis from the sector publication, In my work inside and outside Westminster in the FE Week, which the Skills Minister and I read with past year, I have seen the strength of diversity and great relish every week. quality in apprenticeships in the skillset schemes at the Government statistics in the Richard review have BBC’s MediaCity site and the food and hospitality borne that out. The proportion of apprenticeships that apprentice achievements that People 1st celebrated here. are in-work apprenticeships rose to 70% in 2012 in Last week, I visited Hackney community college to comparison with 48% in 2007, so the Government’s hear about the new apprenticeship opportunities it is figure of 500,000 hangs entirely on the huge growth in creating as a result of the Tech City developments, and post-25 apprenticeships. If significant numbers of these in Lancashire, as I said, I talked to apprentices at BAE fall away as a result of an adverse reaction to the Systems’s engineering school, and at the defence company Government’s controversial FE loans system, the fragility MBDA just outside Bolton. This Thursday, I will be of their much-trumpeted figure of 500,000 will be rapidly handing out apprenticeships awards at—what better place? exposed. —Blackpool tower. Those experiences have reinforced—for me and, I think, for all of us—the need for a broad range of apprenticeship pathways that cover not just Mr Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham, Perry Barr) (Lab): traditional manufacturing sectors, but professional and Will my hon. Friend join me in congratulating Willmott service sectors. The common denominator has to be quality. Dixon, a developer and construction company in my constituency, on having just invested £1 million in a new Despite that good work—and that of other initiatives; apprenticeships college? It has already had the privilege we welcome the extra apprenticeships that Barclays has of being visited by the shadow Secretary of State, who just announced—it cannot be the substitute for systematic has seen the good work it does. Will he support that? broader government action. The take-up of apprenticeships remains challenging and, in some categories, dire. We have already seen the number of 16-to18-year-old Mr Marsden: I will indeed support what my hon. apprenticeship starts fall by 9,200 in the first three Friend has said, and would add that Willmott Dixon, months between August and October 2012, in comparison among other companies, has had some interesting things with the same period in 2011. to say about the role that social value can play in apprenticeships and procurement. Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab): Is my Addressing not just fall-out at post-24, but the ability hon. Friend as shocked as I am to discover that the to fall in at 16 to 18 and 19 to 24 should be a crucial part Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, with a of any Government apprenticeships strategy. That means staff of approximately 2,500, appears to employ only exposing them to the world of work and work experience one apprentice under the age of 19? Would today not be at a much earlier age; giving space and dedicated funding a good day for the Minister to make an announcement in the curriculum for independent, face-to-face career that he will put that right, put his own house in order guidance on apprenticeships; and making space for and set an example for everybody else? vital work-related learning skills, as the Federation of Small Businesses said in its publication, “The Apprenticeship Mr Marsden: We should never tempt providence, but Journey”. I am sure the Minister has heard my hon. Friend’s The Prime Minister said yesterday in Buckinghamshire remark, which I shall return to later. that he wanted to make apprenticeships a first-choice The final figures for 2011-12 also show that the career move, so perhaps he could have a word with the number of 16-to-18 apprenticeships has dropped in Secretary of State for Education, who appropriately is four of England’s nine regions, including by more than in his place, but who has studiously ignored and devalued 2,000 in my own north-west region. The growth figures the arguments for vocational careers advice made by for other age groups—not least 19 to 24 year olds, business groups and, indeed, by his own small and which is a crucial age when many, for whatever reason, medium-sized enterprises apprenticeships adviser, Jason have missed out first time around—are modest. Holt, in his report last August. 229 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 230

No wonder businesses are dismayed. When the Andrew Percy: I will not plug my jobs fair—which is Government removed compulsory work-related learning taking place at 9.30 this Friday at the Vale of Ancholme from the key stage 4 curriculum in 2012, the FSB said: school in Brigg—but one thing the shadow Minister has “We remain deeply concerned that without it many schools not mentioned is the important role of local government may fail to teach these vital skills.” in supporting apprenticeships. I wonder whether he has The Prime Minister also said yesterday rather airily that had the opportunity to look at Conservative-run North he wanted Britain to be more like Germany in its Lincolnshire council, which created 60 apprenticeships attitude to apprenticeships, so perhaps he, too, should last year and has this year put aside £250,000 to support listen to Ofsted’s chief inspector, Sir Michael Wilshaw, local businesses in employing 120 apprentices. who has come back from looking at Germany’s apprenticeships system and told FE Week this week Mr Marsden: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman has that Germany’s “very effective” apprenticeships system made what is not just a detailed point, but an important is supported general point: that these things cannot simply be delivered “with a greater focus on vocational training” and micro-managed in Whitehall. They need to be in schools “earlier on.” If we want the broadest spectrum taken forward at the local and sub-regional level. He of young people, including those not in education, gave an example, and I welcome apprenticeships coming employment or training, to be able to take up from councils of whatever political persuasion. I shall apprenticeships, we must give them a fair chance to get have a little more to say about that later. there. We and others have been urging for months the need for a proper pre-training route. Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab) rose—

Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con) Co-op): My hon. Friend is making a strong speech. rose— Perhaps the Prime Minister could take some lessons from Wales. I am proud to have ACT Training in my Mr Sheerman rose— constituency, which is one of Wales’s largest apprenticeship training providers, training 5,000 apprentices last year, with a 90% completion rate. Will he join me in welcoming Mr Marsden: I will take one more intervention from the announcement this afternoon by the Deputy Minister my hon. Friend and then I must make progress. for Skills in the Welsh Labour Government? He has announced an additional £22 million of support over Mr Sheerman: Again, I am not trying to make party the next two years for apprenticeships, which is quite a political points, but have we not all found that if we are contrast to the approach of the Government in this to have apprenticeship champions, we have to locate place. them somewhere? Whether they are in local enterprise partnerships, chambers of commerce, local authorities, Mr Marsden: That support is entirely welcome. Indeed, colleges or anywhere else, we have to have champions if there might be more occasions when the current we are to get the number of apprenticeships this country Government should look at examples from the devolved deserves. nations. Ever since the Government admitted the need to Mr Marsden: My hon. Friend is quite right. When guarantee that quality apprenticeships would have to be different places choose different champions in different 12 months or longer, we have been pushing these points. sectors, the secret is getting them to co-operate with That is the only way to ensure that social mobility and each other. apprenticeship expansion can go hand in hand. However, Last year we laid out all the measures I have set out in the Government have dithered and dallied, and precious this debate, but the centrepiece is something that the opportunities have been squandered for many young Government could move to tomorrow if they wanted people. The traineeship consultation, which is welcome, to: using the tens or even hundreds of billions of was launched only at the beginning of this year, but pounds of public procurement that come from Government now the Government have to spell out in detail how contracts to create apprenticeships. That is the core of they will avoid it becoming a rerun of the youth training today’s motion. As far back as August 2011, we set out scheme of the 1980s, which merely recycled young our stall, when the then shadow Business Secretary, my people off the jobless figures. right hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen, The Labour party recognises, therefore, that we need announced that we would require all companies bidding a step change to expand apprenticeship opportunities for Government contracts above £1 million to put in for young people and to support smaller businesses to place a scheme to create apprenticeships before they take part. That is why, this time last year in Blackpool, I could get them. That is an initiative to do much of the laid out a series of apprenticeship initiatives from our heavy lifting that we need to provide the step change, Front-Bench team to do just that. They include Government the exponential shift, in the sheer volume of apprenticeship expansion and encouragement of group training numbers. Since then, his successor, my hon. Friend the associations to aid smaller businesses and the promotion Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna), has taken that of best practice in buddying, with larger companies proposal forward on every possible occasion, not only working with smaller ones in their supply chains to on the ground of the economic necessity for growth but create apprenticeships, as well as a larger direct role for as an ethical imperative. That is why, last week at the business and industry in creating and setting apprenticeship EEF, he outlined our position, which is that it is simply frameworks and direct involvement in careers advice unacceptable that two thirds of larger employers are and guidance. still not offering apprenticeships. 231 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 232

[Mr Marsden] “currently working on guidance to encourage best practice amongst local authorities in relation to Apprenticeship conditions in It was my right hon. Friend the Member for construction contracts”. Southampton, Itchen who laid out the direction of Why has it taken them more than two and a half years travel for this initiative when we were in government. to get to this point? After all, does not such a starting Along with my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey point already exist in the form of the OGC guidance (Ms Eagle), he launched the official Office of Government that I referred to earlier? Why are the Government Commerce guidance encouraging this approach. That reinventing the wheel? Labour Government then proceeded with major projects It has also been suggested that civil servants fear that such as the Kickstart housing scheme, launched by my they could fall foul of EU procurement rules. The right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne Minister’s illustrious predecessor, the hon. Member for (John Healey), and Building Schools for the Future, as South Holland and The Deepings, ruefully admitted to well as working with the contractors on the Olympic the Select Committee last May that he felt that the park, which resulted in the creation of thousands of Government could be more creative in their use of new apprenticeship opportunities. procurement. That position has also been confirmed by the House of Commons Library, which points out that Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab): My the European Commission has a guidance note entitled hon. Friend is making an important point. We have learned “Buying Social: a Guide to Taking Account of Social this week that young people in areas such as Tameside Considerations in Public Procurement.” That guidance are now among those with the fewest opportunities to suggests that promoting “employment opportunities”, access the jobs market, yet it was Labour-controlled “decent work” and access to training can be taken into Tameside council, working with a Labour Government, account. Those guidelines are surely compatible with that ensured that the contractors for schemes such as promoting apprenticeships. Building Schools for the Future took on apprenticeships as part of the Tameside Works First initiative. Rehman Chishti: Will the shadow Minister join me in paying tribute to Medway council, which has managed to obtain money from Europe to fund up to Mr Marsden: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. As 500 apprenticeships under the success scheme? a native Mancunian, I am well aware that over the past 20 to 25 years, the local councils in the Greater Manchester area have done splendid work in this respect. Mr Marsden: I am delighted to do so. That is another indication that Conservatives down in Kent seem to do I was talking about Building Schools for the Future things rather differently from Conservatives in Government. and the contractors on the Olympic park. It is also sometimes forgotten that it was our party, in government, As I was saying, could it be—perish the thought—that that ensured that skills and apprenticeships would be an some Ministers are simply using European Union law integral part of the Crossrail project that we had announced. as a convenient smokescreen to disguise their reluctance It was our party that put in place the tunnelling academy to support this kind of active, intelligent Government and laid the framework for a procurement strategy based initiative? If that is the case, what do they think that our on taking apprentices from the local London boroughs. French or German counterparts would do? Do they think that they would allow arcane, untested notions of That is what we believe, but more than that, it is what EU law to prevent them from expanding apprenticeships, a raft of other bodies believe as well. Most recently given the dire unemployment rates among young people and significantly, the cross-party Business, Innovation that exist under this Government? Why, if that is the and Skills Committee ended its 11-month inquiry into case, does one of the Government’s own Departments apprenticeships and, in its recent report, called on the claim to be following an approach much like ours? Government to adopt such a scheme. The Committee Since July 2011, the Department for Work and Pensions argued that the Government should aim for the benchmark has been operating its apprenticeships and skills requirement used by many leading businesses in the construction contract schedule, which requires: sector, including Kier, Wilmott Dixon and Laing, whereby for every £1 million spent by Government Departments “The Contractor shall and shall procure that its Sub-contractors and their agencies on public procurement, at least one shall take all reasonable steps to ensure that 5% of their employees are on a formal apprenticeship programme.” new apprenticeship place should be created. The apprenticeships Minister himself praised the DWP That sensible approach has already attracted many initiative in a recent House of Commons response. That supporters. The Union of Construction, Allied Trades is all well and good, but if the initiative is such a good and Technicians, the Association of Colleges, the National idea, why have the Government not extended it to other Union of Students, the North-East Federation of Small Departments? Why has the Department for Business, Businesses, the North-East chamber of commerce and Innovation and Skills, as the lead Department for many others endorsed the approach when it was set out apprenticeships, not taken matters any further in the by my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon 20 months since the launch of that initiative? Why have Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) in her excellent the Cabinet Office, the Deputy Prime Minister, and private Member’s Bill last year. During the Select Committee even the occupants of No. 10—who waxed eloquent sessions, organisations such as JTL and unionlearn also yesterday about the value of apprenticeships being the backed the procurement concept. new norm—done nothing? That is not exactly the equivalent Despite all that, this Government continue to refuse of Churchill’s “action this day”. Are this Government to act. Their response to the Select Committee report so supine, so conflicted and so hung up that they prefer cited rather vague unintended negative consequences as taking away people’s employment rights to creating their excuse for ducking the issue. They said that they were career opportunities for them? Does it not boil down to 233 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 234 the resistance of many, if not all, in the Tory-led coalition above the regional average. We have seen so many to any active, intelligent role for Government which Government U-turns in the past few weeks, so is he would require them to strain every sinew to promote hoping that they might do a U-turn on this issue, too? economic growth and expand young people’s life chances? The Government cannot and should not micro-manage, Mr Marsden: We wait with bated breath to see what but they must expand apprenticeship places more vigorously might occur in the Budget, and I hope that the Skills and systematically than they are at present. That is Minister might use his good offices with the Chancellor central to what we need to achieve as a country so that in that respect. we can compete and thrive in the 21st-century world. It Labour Members believe that this apprenticeship is no wonder that my right hon. Friend the Leader of route has to be a high-quality one. We have to have that the Opposition made the expansion of apprenticeships because we have had problems in the past with the with employers and other stakeholders, and the introduction duration of apprenticeships, and it took some time for of the “tech bacc”, the central focus in his speech to the the Government to move on that. These issues of quality Labour party conference last year. He has also spelt out are being addressed by our Labour skills taskforce. It is the way in which a future Labour Government could taking forward details of our proposals, which the apply the same criterion to major infrastructure projects Leader of the Opposition announced last autumn, drawing such as High Speed 2, with the objective of creating at on the practical experience of business, the further least 33,000 additional apprenticeships. education sector and elsewhere. That is why we are We can see how the same formula could be applied seeking not only to boost the number of apprenticeship directly elsewhere, and in other Departments beside the places available, but to address the situation pre-18 by DWP. For example, there are four existing road projects introducing a new technical baccalaureate. announced by the Department for Transport—work on While the Government have been dithering nationally the A160 and A180 in Immingham, on the M6 in the about how to expand apprenticeships and ignoring west midlands, on the M3 in Surrey, and on the M275 in procurement policies, Labour local authorities have been Portsmouth—with a combined contract value of more leading the way. A number of Labour-run authorities than £400 million, from which hundreds of apprenticeship are going ahead with public procurement to create places could be created. If the Government really want new apprenticeships for young local people eager for to expand apprenticeships, why will they not practise those opportunities. For example, Sheffield city what they preach and implement these sensible proposals? council has identified 233 additional apprenticeships After all, what better spur can there be for the two that it can create via public procurement where it has set thirds of businesses that still do not offer apprenticeships its requirements at £100,000. Sandwell’s council has than the knowledge that they are crucial to the Government, done something similar, aiming to create just under and also crucial to their working with the Government? 200 apprenticeships through public procurement in the next three years. Other councils, such as my local authority As Members have said, we need to see Government in Blackpool, are boosting numbers in other innovative Departments themselves opening up and offering more ways. It already has 48 apprentices on the books, but my apprenticeships. The most recent data available to us on local council is working with other local public sector BIS are those mentioned earlier by my hon. Friend the bodies, such as the police force and the NHS, to create Member for Birmingham, Selly Oak. Spurred by the shared apprenticeships across those bodies. One could cogent arguments advanced repeatedly over the past add to that other Labour councils such as those in year by my colleague in the other place, Lord Adonis, Reading and Plymouth that are actively engaging with the Government should be introducing an apprenticeship local businesses to boost apprenticeship opportunities fast stream for the civil service. Ministers have now across their boroughs, as well as the city skills hubs of announced belatedly that they will be running such a Manchester and Leeds. scheme, but we are still waiting to hear—and it would be interesting if we could hear today—just how committed What is telling about that story of activity in local to it individual Departments will be. The Cabinet Office, government is that, as we have heard, even Conservative-run for example, was far from forthcoming when I asked local authorities realise the merits of that approach. For parliamentary questions about this earlier this year. My example, Kent county council has put in place criteria right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition summed whose details closely mirror ours: procurement for all the position up perfectly in an article at the end of contracts worth more than £1 million should create at January in which he said: least one additional apprenticeship place. Northamptonshire county council has also put in place mandatory “Whitehall takes 500 of the brightest graduates from our top requirements on all contracts over the value of £2 million. universities every year and fast-tracks their careers on good salaries. Let’s give the same opportunities to youngsters who are In addition, there are those in the Prime Minister’s own ready to knuckle down and learn on the job, in tough apprenticeship parliamentary party who have argued that something schemes. It should start in the offices of ministers in the Government.” has to be done, with perhaps the sharpest example being the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon). Last We believe that any new apprenticeships created via year, that redoubtable Member made similar suggestions this procurement route need to be high quality, a point that government should be using public procurement to echoed by the Doug Richard review recommendations. boost apprenticeships. That shows the range of consensus on the need to act Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) now. It is a consensus that has been built by a determination (Lab): My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. I to do something to kick-start us out of a dire, flatlining am thinking in particular about the 16 to 18-year-olds economic situation, which has the potential to put in Oldham who are not in education, employment or thousands of young people at risk. The Opposition are training; the level there is more than 8.6%, which is well advocating a useful change that has the potential to 235 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 236

[Mr Marsden] Apprenticeships deliver and that is why over the past two years the number of apprentices starting has increased transform the life chances of thousands of young people. so sharply. In 2010, the coalition promised 50,000 more It offers them the opportunities they are crying out for, apprentices every year. I confirm to the House today and sends a clear message to business that apprenticeships that we have already not only delivered on that promise matter and add real value to a firm. If we will the ends, but exceeded it. We have all but doubled the number of we must will the means. It is time for the Government to apprentices starting each year, with more than 1 million stop tying themselves in tortuous knots when they are starts under this Government. put on the spot by the wise words of the Select Committee. The Skills Minister has repeatedly said that Mr Lammy rose— apprenticeships are at the heart of the Government’s skills strategy. As many of his Tory colleagues in local Michael Fallon: I shall give way in a moment. government agree with our approach, why does he not Apprenticeships deliver and we can now set out a take this modest proposal forward? He has the opportunity. more stretching goal, that is, the vision that on leaving We have a Department for Business, Innovation and school it will become the new norm to go either into an Skills that already has a Minister with two brains and a apprenticeship or to university. Gone are the days when Secretary of State in two minds about ring-fenced funding a Prime Minister could set an arbitrary target for how and economic growth. Now I wait with bated breath to many children should go to university, forcing some see whether the Under-Secretary of State for Skills will down a route that did not suit them and ignoring the be able to say the right thing for his two Departments rest. Gone are the days of Labour’s forgotten 50%. this afternoon. Gone are the days of youth unemployment rising even Abraham Lincoln—or perhaps it was Daniel Day- in the boom years. Gone are the days of uncontrolled Lewis—famously said that when immigration as the only answer to skill shortages, of “the occasion is piled high with difficulty” dumbing down, of worklessness, of welfare and of the race to the bottom. Instead, the Government aspire that we must rise to it, and all the young people of this great nation should reach “As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew.” their personal best and that they should all succeed and That is our proposal today. When our economy and this fulfil their potential. Government’s strategy are flatlining, we must act anew. Of course, such a change is an economic imperative, A public procurement policy for apprenticeships would as we cannot afford the drag anchor of the welfare bill start to transform the numbers and the life chances of in this global race, but there is also a moral imperative tens of thousands of young people. It makes economic to support everyone in reaching their potential—for the sense, but it is also the right thing to do. We believe in a many, not the few. How will we do that? Of course, the one nation Britain with not only social cohesion and sharp increase in the quantity of apprentices is important, fairness but economic cohesion, in which apprenticeships but alone it is not enough; despite unemployment falling, have a firm stake. That is why we have put the proposal we still, shockingly, find both youth unemployment and centre stage today and that is why I am proud to move skills shortages together in many towns in Britain. That the motion. points to a skills system that for too long has failed. For too long, the Government directed centrally the training Several hon. Members rose— that should be provided, at what level and where. The result was too much poor quality training in skills Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I employers did not need, and not enough high quality warn hon. Members that it looks like there will be a training in skills employers do need. five-minute limit on speeches due to the length of the opening speeches. The lodestars in reforming the apprenticeship system will be rigour and responsiveness: rigour to stretch, challenge and raise the expectations of apprentices and 5.1 pm responsiveness to the needs of employers, public or The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation private, large or small. The Richard review, which we and Skills (Michael Fallon): I can join the hon. Member published in the autumn, sets out a clear and specific for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden) in making one point: guide to delivering those reforms, and we shall publish we are all in the Chamber today to celebrate apprenticeships our formal response shortly. on the second day of national apprenticeship week. I What of Labour’s response today? I certainly welcome was privileged this morning to meet Jenny Westworth, the Opposition’s general support for apprenticeships. I the apprentice of the year, who is an aeronautical welcome their specific support for more employer ownership engineer at BAE Systems near Preston. of skills, which has support across the spectrum, from Apprenticeships offer a huge amount. They work for trade unions, employers and the third sector alike. However, the economy, they work for employers and they work I am disappointed by the rather negative and carping for apprentices. In short, apprenticeships deliver. For tone that we heard from the hon. Member for Blackpool the economy, apprenticeships improve productivity. For South. I turn to some of his specific points. employers, apprenticeships increase morale and retention, not to mention the skills that employers need. They also Mr Sheerman: Will the Minister give way? work for the apprentices themselves and evidence published by the Centre for Economic and Business Research Michael Fallon: No. The hon. Gentleman has already shows that the average higher apprentice increases his made three interventions. or her lifetime earnings by about £150,000, about as much as if he or she had gone to university. Mr Sheerman: Four. 237 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 238

Michael Fallon: Others need to get into the debate. procurement for the construction of HS2 meets our The hon. Member for Blackpool South referred to an wider Government commitments to deliver apprenticeships article written by the Leader of the Opposition. I grant and training. In the case of Crossrail, the largest that it was an unusual article; it actually set out some construction project in Europe, the contracts signed by policies—on apprenticeships. I read it to find out exactly this Government require apprentices. I think we now what was there. The first policy was to introduce a know where the Opposition got the idea for all these national application system for apprenticeships, rather Labour policies—they looked up what we are doing and like UCAS for universities. That is a good idea. It is they are playing catch-up. such a good idea that we have already brought it in and linked it to UCAS. It is called the apprenticeship vacancy Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): I service; it is run by the National Apprenticeship Service am sure my right hon. Friend is aware how delighted the and it was used by more than 1 million applicants last parliamentary apprentices are to have been invited to year—evidently none of them from the Labour party go and meet the Prime Minister tomorrow to celebrate research department. apprenticeship week. There are a number of apprentices, including Daisy Peck in my office, who is the former Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con): head girl of Northampton school for boys—it takes Will my right hon. Friend give way? girls in the sixth form—and she is thrilled to be invited by our Prime Minister to go and celebrate apprenticeship Michael Fallon indicated assent. week at No. 10 tomorrow morning.

Mr Sheerman: The Minister said he would not give Michael Fallon: I am delighted to hear that. I understand waytoanyone. that the apprentices will also attend Prime Minister’s Question Time tomorrow, so we must all be on our best Mr Stuart: The hon. Gentleman is clearly wrong. My behaviour. right hon. Friend is prepared to give way and I congratulate him. He may not know that my constituency has the Mr Sheerman: Will the right hon. Gentleman give highest number of adult apprenticeship starts, and overall way? has one of the highest numbers in the country.I congratulate him and his colleagues on increasing the number of Michael Fallon: No. The hon. Gentleman has had apprenticeships and ensuring quality. Does he share my four—or is it five—goes. surprise that the hon. Member for Streatham (Mr Umunna) On the motion, we are clear that we support the does not mention the tripling of apprenticeships that principle of apprenticeships within procurement, where has occurred in his constituency since Labour left power? they deliver value for money, and we are delivering apprenticeships within procurement, but I am sorry to Michael Fallon: My hon. Friend does the House a point out that there is a problem with the Opposition service by drawing attention to that rather revealing motion. First, it requires the Government to put statistic. apprenticeship contracts into all public sector contracts. I turn to the second policy we discovered in the That would mean all local government contracts and all Labour leader’s article. He said: devolved Government contracts, and I am not sure that “Let’s respond to employers who say they can’t hire young the hon. Member for Blackpool South or the Opposition people with the right skills, and put them in charge of how intended that. In addition, the motion makes no mention training money is spent.” of value for money. For Government Members value That is a good idea, but the Prime Minister launched for money in procurement is essential. Of course the the employer ownership pilot in November 2011. There evidence shows that apprenticeships normally drive up are now some 26 of those pilot schemes. Only this value for money, but the motion would be a rather morning another one was launched, for digital marketing. heavy-handed approach. The support of the Opposition—a bit late—is very I ask the Opposition, as we jointly celebrate welcome. apprenticeship week, to accept the reassurances that we Thirdly, let us turn to the idea of apprentices in have given about the importance of procurement in Whitehall. I agree. In 2010, we found hardly any apprentices national contracts, to understand that their motion is in Ministers’ offices. There are now 1,800 across Whitehall. technically defective, not to push it to a vote, and We announced a fast-stream apprentice scheme that will instead to support the Government in their drive to take 500 apprentices—the same number as the graduate increase apprenticeship numbers. fast stream. Other of the Leader of the Opposition’s I urge the whole House to get behind the wider colleagues mentioned the number of apprentices in my reforms that we are putting in place for apprenticeships. Department. They were wrong; there are 79 apprentices Following the Richard review, which was widely welcomed, in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills we are setting out those reform plans so that as well as and its Executive agencies, hired despite the broader the welcome increase in quantity, we increase the quality, hiring freeze. [Interruption.] Other than apprentices, putting employers at the heart of apprenticeships and the Department employs no one at all aged under 19. making the system more rigorous and more responsive Fourthly, we come to the policy on procurement. The to skills needs. We have published regulations to increase Opposition say we should put apprentices into the the level to which apprenticeships can be studied, procurement contracts for High Speed 2. Of course, introducing for the first time apprenticeships that can HS2 has yet to go through the House so its contracts lead to the same exams to qualify as a solicitor, accountant are yet to be signed, but the Department for Transport or insurance professional. By putting employers in the has already made it clear that it will ensure that any driving seat, we are reshaping apprenticeships to fit the 239 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 240

[Michael Fallon] David Simpson (Upper Bann) (DUP): There has been a system through the years where there has not been modern economy—a highly skilled, highly motivated that close working relationship between educationists work force where each and every one can aspire to fulfil and industry, and educationists need to provide the their potential. That is what our reforms will do, and I courses that are relevant to today’s industry. commend apprenticeships to the House. Mr Bailey: I agree entirely with the hon. Gentleman, Several hon. Members rose— and if I have time I will come to that very point. One of the Select Committee’s recommendations was Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. I that the Ofsted assessment criteria should include the have decided to introduce a six-minute limit to make number of students that a school puts into vocational sure that everybody who wishes to speak gets in. and further education. It is only by changing school targets that teachers will change the culture of schools to overcome this discrimination between higher education 5.13 pm and the vocational route. Unfortunately, the Government declined to take up that invitation. Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op): I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Beverley and I will try to summarise my 11-month Business, Innovation Holderness (Mr Stuart) for a very good Select Committee and Skills Committee report and its recommendations report that highlighted the problems of the careers within that time frame. I welcome this debate in service. By delegating careers advice to schools, the national apprenticeship week. Notwithstanding the political existing bias within the education system to encourage differences that we may have between the parties, it is students to take the higher education route rather than important that we take the opportunity to demonstrate the vocational route is being reinforced. We need careers and recommend to young people the advantages that advisers who are aware of apprenticeships, aware of the come from an apprenticeship. benefits of vocational education, and prepared to advise Recent figures show that it is anticipated that there students in schools that that is the best possible route will be about £3.4 billion worth of additional growth for their particular range of aptitude. per year in 2022 if we adopt a certain target for apprenticeships. Similarly, apprentices can expect to Mr Graham Stuart: The point that the hon. Gentleman earn about £150,000 extra during a lifetime. Those are makes about careers advice is absolutely right. Does he key figures that the House should be highlighting in agree that one of the Government’s successful initiatives order to underpin the Government’s drive to get more has been the National Careers Service, and there could apprentices. be a role for that service, working with schools, to However, the Government have to recognise that ensure that they fulfil the duty that they have been there is also a perception problem. Fewer than one in given? All too often the institutional interest of the five 16 to 19-year-olds think that apprenticeships offer school and the individual interest of the young person the best career option for them, and the great majority are not the same, and that is why we need some kind of still think that GCSEs and university do. Fewer than arbitration to make sure that the interests of the child one in 10 parents support apprenticeships. They still are put first. prefer the higher education route and still think of apprentices as being blue collar workers, whereas in fact Mr Bailey: I read the recommendation of the hon. the great majority are white collar workers. Gentleman’s Committee on that, and in the current Notwithstanding the obvious economic benefit and situation I think it is probably the best option. I await the drive and support from all parties in the Chamber, the Government’s response to it with interest. there is obviously a problem that has to be addressed in Work experience is another topic that has been raised. fulfilling the potential that is offered by this career Removing the obligation on schools to have their students route. With great respect to the Minister, I do not think involved in work experience removes from those students that he did justice to some of the recommendations an experience that potentially will enthuse them to made by the Opposition and the Business, Innovation pursue an apprenticeship. In my area, many of the and Skills Committee to achieve that. I stress that the apprentices in the foundries went there as a result of Select Committee has a Government majority and all work experience they undertook. Removing this obligation its recommendations were passed unanimously. undermines the overall thrust of the policy, which is to The solution lies, first, in not just trying to drive up get young people into vocational education. the number of apprenticeships, but in looking at our The hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) education system. The Prime Minister talked yesterday raised the issue of business involvement. That is another about an alternative career option. If we are to get crucial element in developing a strategy that works. I young people to take it up, we must have some sort of believe that, first, there must be a vocational qualification, parity of esteem between higher education and the and the BTEC, as outlined by my hon. Friend the apprenticeship route. The most depressing thing that Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden), should the Committee heard was when an apprentice in Sheffield provide that. I support the Government’s employer told us that he had the option to go to university, but ownership scheme as I believe that our vocational when he told his school he wanted to take an apprenticeship, qualifications must be determined, monitored and assessed it ignored him and did not even invite him to its awards by business, in conjunction with the education service. ceremony. That is symptomatic of a culture within our I also believe more group training associations and schools and education system that must be addressed if apprenticeship training associations should be developed we are to change. so we can reach the smaller small and medium-sized 241 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 242 enterprises, which are the hardest to reach and which undoubtedly one of strong growth under the coalition otherwise would be unable to provide the resources for Government. A big rise in the number of apprenticeships apprenticeship training. in Worcester helps to explain the sharp fall in youth I am not going to repeat my hon. Friend’s arguments unemployment, which today is around 18% lower than in support of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee it was at the time of the general election, and down recommendations, but I will emphasise that my local more than a quarter since its peak under Labour. authority of Sandwell is pioneering in this area, and has However, I want to focus on quality, not just quantity, so far obtained 250 apprentices, is playing a brokering and on people, not just numbers. Suffice it to say, I role for students with local businesses, and has taken welcome the fact that the numbers keep rising, which 300 people off the unemployment register by giving is testament to the Government’s commitment on them work experience in a pre-apprenticeship scheme. apprenticeships. Apprenticeships are often seen as the If local government can do this, why cannot the first step in a career, but it is important to recognise Government? The half-hearted response of the Government where they can lead. We should see them not just as a is to be lamented, and I hope we will get something route into the lower end of the jobs market, which they more positive in future. have sometimes been misrepresented as in the past. When I look at local manufacturers in my constituency, 5.23 pm I see that many of the bosses are former apprentices. Mr Robin Walker (Worcester) (Con): It is a pleasure Both the current and previous managing directors at to follow the Chair of the Business, Innovation and Worcester Bosch, the biggest private sector employer Skills Committee, the hon. Member for West Bromwich in Worcester, started out as apprentices. In smaller West (Mr Bailey), who made an excellent speech. local engineering firms, one reason why the bosses and Apprenticeships are working for business and more young owner-managers are so passionate about making today’s people are taking up apprenticeships in Worcestershire apprenticeships work is that they started their careers in than ever before. In that context, I warmly welcome the old-fashioned apprenticeships. start of another national apprenticeship week. Like We should not see apprenticeships as an end in many other MPs, I have employed an apprentice to themselves, but as a conduit into learning about work, work with me in my constituency office, and I will be good careers and wider opportunities. For many young meeting local employers in my constituency this week people, staying in school or college until 18 or going to to discuss how we can strengthen the roll-out of university are not necessarily enticing prospects. Some apprenticeships, widen participation by businesses in of the brightest young people can be disengaged from supporting them, and continue to drive up quality for classroom study by the time they reach 16 and many employers and apprentices alike. would relish the challenge of being able to learn in the workplace. Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con): I know that my hon. Friend is a real advocate of apprenticeships. In the past, apprenticeships served generations well as One of the ideas I hope he will push in that forum and a means of entry into work, particularly in the manufacturing with Ministers is to use the mailing of business rates. sector, but with the number of apprenticeships increasing We already pay for those to go to every business every across the advanced manufacturing, cyber, computer year. Simply inserting a leaflet setting out the benefits and service industries, I believe that they can serve the of apprenticeships would provide a real boost, and current generation of school leavers even better. Many would serve to open the window for many other businesses young people are better suited to learning in the workplace, and future apprentices. rather than the classroom, and will thrive best given the opportunity to succeed, work hard and learn in a working Mr Walker: My hon. Friend comes up with an intriguing, environment. I am glad that apprenticeships now offer a and very creative, suggestion, and I am sure Ministers progression that can take people right up to degree level will respond to it in due course. and provide an alternative route to that valuable level of Although I welcome the fact that the Opposition qualification. have chosen apprenticeships as the topic for this debate, I was pleased to hear the Prime Minister say that and I particularly welcome their support for the excellent apprenticeships should be seen as the “new normal”. In report from the BIS Committee, which I was proud order for that to remain the case in the long term, to join shortly after its inquiry into apprenticeships, I however, we need to make some changes. We need to get am afraid that their motion is very narrow and self- the message through, as the Select Committee Chair congratulatory and misses most of the important has shown strongly, to all those in our education system recommendations of that report, as the Committee who provide careers advice that apprenticeships are Chair eloquently explained in his excellent speech. here to stay. I was shocked to hear from apprentices at As a proud member of the all-party group on BAE Systems that many of them, who had achieved apprenticeships, I have met a wide range of employers that gold-standard apprenticeship, had been actively who want to take on apprentices and who value the discouraged from applying for it by their teachers. My opportunity to have people earn while they learn. I have hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle), also met some enormously impressive young people from who unfortunately is not in the Chamber, has previously all over the country who are undertaking apprenticeships given the appalling example of one candidate whose and who recognise the huge opportunity they offer. It is teacher tore up their application for an apprenticeship very easy for a debate such as this to be dominated by with that fantastic employer because they did not want statistics, and I am sure other Members will introduce to see them “wasted there.” I have seen some of the plenty of them into the debate, but the overall story is outstanding facilities available to those apprentices. 243 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 244

Mr Bailey: I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind It is of course right that the Government consider words. Does he agree that because we have a system in public procurement as a way of encouraging which teachers are judged on their ability to get pupils apprenticeships, and I was pleased to hear the Minister into higher education, rather than into apprenticeships, reiterate their commitment to using it in that way. It is we cannot really blame the teachers or the system for right that the Select Committee drew Ministers’ attention doing so? It is the Government who need to change the to this important area, as it did on pages 52 and 53 of system. That is not a party political point, because it its 90-page report. However, it is also right that the existed under the previous Government as well. Government should have regard to the cost that making procurement conditional on apprenticeships might have Mr Walker: I heartily agree with the hon. Gentleman. for the public purse and private enterprise. The report We have to change those incentives and provide better says, ones and support from outside the teaching profession “we concede that some flexibility is required”, for the careers service in order to handle that better. and, with regard to the suggestion of looking for at least one apprenticeship per £1 million awarded, David Simpson: Does the hon. Gentleman also agree “we have been told by the TUC that this is current policy in some that one of the difficulties is that some industries have construction procurement arrangements.” had a culture of employing agency workers, who are It is notable that the recommendation on procurement easy to employ and to dispose of, which means there is did not form even one of the sub-headings in the no investment, and that that culture has to change? conclusions and recommendations of the report. Mr Walker: I agree with that as well. I think there is I passionately support apprenticeships. I welcome the opportunity to show businesses the benefits of the fact that we are celebrating national apprenticeship investing in skills and that that can be achieved through week and welcome the very important work of the BIS apprenticeships. Some of the strongest recommendations Committee, of which I am proud to be a member. in the Select Committee’s report relate to the need to strengthen the brand of apprenticeships and the focus on them in careers advice. It also points out the need to 5.31 pm increase engagement between the National Apprenticeship Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): Like Service and schools. Disappointingly, the motion makes other hon. Members here today, I welcome national no mention of those issues at all. apprenticeship week. Last night I was pleased to be I would go further than the Committee’s report. We able to attend an event organised jointly by the Society need businesses to engage more closely with schools, to of Motor Manufacturers and Traders and Semta on put their managers on to the governing bodies of schools apprenticeships in the motor industry, where I met at both primary and secondary levels, and to champion Carolyn Lee and James Doughty, two new apprentices the advantages and opportunities of apprenticeships working for Jaguar Land Rover. If anybody ever doubted and work-based learning, just as university-educated the value of apprenticeships and what they can do to teachers will always champion the benefits of going to raise aspirations among young people, they just need to university. listen to the kind of things they were saying to me. In my constituency, I have been pleased to see Yamazaki As chair of the all-party motor group, I have regular Mazak take an active role in supporting the Bishop discussions with motor manufacturers and others in the Perowne Church of England academy, placing its managers motor industry. It is a sector where apprenticeships are on the governing bodies of the school and its primary taken very seriously and where a great deal is being feeders and proactively engaging with school children done. The automotive sector is one of the largest providers in order to advocate the benefits of vocational education. of apprenticeships in our country. People in the sector I am glad to see Worcester Bosch playing an active role certainly welcome a number of the initiatives that have in inspiring pupils at the Tudor Grange academy and taken place, but last night they told me something that was delighted to hold an apprenticeships and enterprise it is important for us to bear in mind: we must not think fair, sponsored by both companies, to bring schools, that rhetoric about apprenticeships is exactly the same employers and apprenticeship providers together with as reality, because they are different. We can support young people to talk about apprenticeships in Worcester. some of the things that are being done and still recognise The Select Committee’s report made powerful that. representations about the need to engage small and I am sorry that the Minister did not seek to engage medium-sized enterprises in the apprenticeship agenda with Labour Members on the issues that they wanted to and pointed out that 80% of apprentices are employed raise with him. My first point about rhetoric not always in the SME sector. Again, the motion is silent on this matching reality is that people involved in the automotive point. In Worcester, a proactive, Conservative-led city sector and elsewhere are saying that small and medium-sized council has engaged with this agenda to support SMEs firms, in particular, have genuine concerns about how with extra grants so that when they take on apprenticeships they can engage with the system: how they access they get double the support that is available from the apprenticeships, what they mean for them, and whether Government. I was delighted that at my most recent it is too difficult for them to get involved. The system business event a number of small companies present is not joining up in the way that it should, and it is had already taken on apprentices and they valued the important that the Government listen to what those in support they were offered. I have also been very pleased industry are saying. They are not making political points; with the consistent support for this agenda from the they are talking about the health of their businesses and local media, particularly the Worcester News, which has the opportunities that should be available to young run the 100 in 100 apprenticeships campaign. people. 245 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 246

My second point on the rhetoric is that it is okay for change to the labour market is important in a place the Government to talk about the expansion in the such as Bradford. In the good years, 1998 to 2008, we number of apprenticeships that has occurred over the lost 40%—15,000—of our manufacturing jobs. Hon. past few years, but often those apprenticeships are not Members need only think what opportunities could tackling the issue of youth unemployment, even in have been offered for apprenticeships. terms of numbers. In the last academic year, the number We are all aware of the tale of educational under- of 16 to 18-year-old apprentices fell in four of England’s attainment from which we have suffered for many years. nine regions, including my own, the west midlands. I worked in a university for about 20 years and always Youthunemployment has sky-rocketed in my constituency; felt that the 50% target was absurd. It was not matched 1,260 young people are currently without a job and by an equivalent increase in funding, and the unit cost long-term youth unemployment has more than doubled. dropped. It became too easy to go to university, and If we overlay that with access to apprenticeships, it does when I started work in the 1980s there was no one in the not make good reading. The Prince’s Trust has highlighted class who did not want to be there, but by the time I left the fact that in some cases just 14% of apprenticeships many young people were there simply because they did were obtained by unemployed young people. not know where else to be—it was a deferred decision. There are examples of good practice. I welcome the The most difficult thing I faced in dealing with admissions work of Birmingham city council. Last year it established in the summer was my awareness of the huge attrition a commission on youth unemployment, which produced rate in the autumn as students drifted into other things pretty staggering and disturbing results: we are one and did not stay on the course. Those changes required of the youngest cities in Europe but we have 15,000 fundamental changes to be made to the apprenticeships unemployed young people, 3,000 of whom have been programme and they are now being made. unemployed for more than a year. The council and its The briefing of the Association of Colleges to the partners set up a youth jobs fund to target funding on Education Committee’s inquiry into careers guidance, tackling long-term youth unemployment. There are issues which has been referred to by other Members, contained involved in targeting funding: should it be targeted on the statistic that young people, on the areas in which they live or on the areas in which employers operate, which form the catchment “only 7% of pupils are able to name apprenticeships as a post-GCSE area for the young people? I have written to the council qualification.” and I hope soon to receive replies to my questions. That is simply not good enough. The report proposes We need more initiatives that bridge the gap between changes. boosting apprenticeships and ensuring that they tackle The proportion of students who stayed on to the long-term youth unemployment, and in that context I sixth form and went on to university became a means of wholly endorse the comments made by my hon. Friend comparing secondary schools. Bradford only has sixth the Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) on forms; there are no sixth-form colleges. Schools wanted behalf of the Select Committee. If we are to join up the to have a very high proportion of young people who system it is vital that our education system links with stayed on into the sixth form and went on to university the necessary skills training and opportunities for young and were in no mood to advise them to go down people. another route. The long-held perception in this country that the Ralf Dahrendorf’s book on life chances, which was academic route is superior to the vocational route must published in the 1970s, had a profound impact on my end. I hope that Ministers will think a little about the views. It spoke of the need to create alternatives and messages they send young people. The rhetoric of the possibilities for young people so that they could lead a Secretary of State for Education over the past few years fulfilled life. Apprenticeships offer something other than has pointed young people in a direction that has not the route that young people are told is the only route encouraged them to believe that apprenticeships enjoy that they should pursue. As we have said many times parity of esteem, whereas we must ensure not only that before, we reached the position where somebody who opportunities are available but that young people feel did not go to university was regarded as a failure. We they can contribute the skills necessary if our country is cannot have that culture and it desperately needs to going to be as competitive as it should be in future. change. There are many things that we need to do. The 5.37 pm expansion of apprenticeship places has happened at such a pace that problems with quality are inevitable. Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD): The average That was identified by the Business, Innovation and unemployed person, especially young people who are Skills Committee. However, we are on a journey and are seriously looking for employment, will not give a jot not there yet. who should claim credit for rejuvenating apprenticeships. All parties should pat themselves on the back for trying to Clear evidence has been produced by organisations rejuvenate apprenticeships, which had almost disappeared. such as the Prince’s Trust of inequality in the apprenticeship Wherever credit should lie, the fact that this initiative is places that are offered. Youngpeople are disproportionately being developed at pace is welcome. disadvantaged, as has been mentioned, as are those from black and minority ethnic communities. That is Where did we go wrong? Over the past 20 or 30 years shown clearly in the statistics. we failed to deal with huge structural issues in the labour market. Immigration played some part, especially The growth of apprenticeships has been very well in communities with rising young populations, but many received in Bradford. I have one of the most deprived businesses tell me they would have gone bust without constituencies with one of the highest levels of youth immigrants, particularly over the past 10 years. Structural unemployment. However, we are managing to get more 247 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 248

[Mr David Ward] problems in our economy? Many of those listening to this debate want to know that when we talk about than 1,000 people in my constituency and 5,000 people apprenticeships, we are serious about what they are. across the Bradford district into apprenticeships each Given that 55% of young black men in this country year. That is extremely good news. are languishing as unemployed, we should be hugely We are not there by a long way, but we are heading in concerned about the ethnic minority profile within the right direction—a direction that has been desperately apprenticeships and—when people do get apprenticeships needed for a long time. —about where they tend to be. Given levels of unemployment among young people, we should be concerned that so much of the growth—75%—is among 5.42 pm those older than 25. All parties can be guilty of playing Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab): In contributing politics, but I was Skills Minister with responsibility for to this debate, I think back to 2008 when I launched Train to Gain, Unionlearn and Skilling up, and 70% of national apprenticeship week as Minister for Skills. I these new apprenticeships are taken by those who were recall debates in the Department at that time about why already employed, and that is not progress. Those people anything that we said about higher education would run already had jobs and—let us be serious—rebadging right across the national newspapers and broadcasters, those jobs as apprenticeships is not actually progress. It whereas it was very hard to get journalists to write even is of huge concern that we are now using the term a small story about the importance of apprenticeships. “apprenticeship”, when we are talking about the Train That is largely because people in that sector, as is now to Gain programme. the case with many politicians, have not experienced apprenticeships themselves. It has also been the case Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab): My right hon. that many middle-class people in this country have not Friend is making a superb speech and indicating that considered apprenticeships to be a preferred option for early decisions made by young people and supported by their children. For that reason, apprenticeships have their parents and teachers are not going in the right languished behind. direction for our economy. Is one main problem the I therefore welcome the cross-party nature of at least lack of decent advice that young people receive? part of this debate, despite its being an Opposition day debate. I congratulate the Government on continuing to Mr Lammy: My hon. Friend is absolutely right and hold national apprenticeship week and on maintaining we will not sort out that issue unless we get to grips with the National Apprenticeship Service, which I launched. a serious problem in careers, information, advice and It is important that the minimum length for an guidance. We struggled with that in government; we had apprenticeship has been set at a year. All that progress is the Connexions service but we got rid of it. I think it welcome. worked in certain parts of the country but not in others, and it was certainly good for more vulnerable young It is important to introduce some fundamentals to people. The situation now is that many schools with this debate—otherwise, many young people searching responsibility in that area are totally out of touch with for apprenticeships in our country might think that we the sectors into which we need young people to go if we have gone mad, and parents who are concerned about are to be serious about apprenticeships. apprenticeships might feel that we are out of touch. At the heart of our system is the understanding that we The indication of decline is also significant. When must be there not only for our own children but also for Labour left office, my Department was spending about others. In a sense, we act in loco parentis, and navigating £2,400 in direct payments for each apprenticeship start. young people through a journey into work is important That figure has now fallen to £1,600, and is part of the and necessary. For so many—indeed most—young people, dressing up of what constitutes an apprenticeship. going on such a journey alongside studying is essential. I hope we will begin to get serious about what an We must remember that teachers spend time working apprenticeship is, and recognise that young people are and studying, just as I did when I was a young barrister. concerned that they will just go round and round in Across many job areas, the apprenticeship—an idea as circles and not end up with a proper job. A proper job is old as the human being—is necessary. Why do we still where we need to get to, and we should keep a close eye have a fundamental problem? Largely, it goes back to on both completion rates and success rates. If we go the central debates of our times: what is growth; what is back in time, the legacy of a former Government was an the industrial policy in this country; and where are our apprenticeship that one did not finish, and one did not jobs to come from? I think we have some problems with get a job at the end of it. those issues. We should be concerned that when we talk about 5.50 pm apprenticeships, a significant bulk of what we mean are level 2 apprenticeships—GSCE level. If we are serious Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con): One about giving people the necessary life chances, and great positive that we can take out of the debate so far is replicating what we see in countries such as Germany, that many Members are very positive about apprenticeships. Sweden and elsewhere, we need to do considerably I accept that there will be disagreements, but what we better and have more apprenticeships at level 3 and can all take away from it is that we want apprenticeships beyond. Are we in this House content that when we to succeed and to work. look at growth over the past years, 100,000 of the new In my constituency in the past year, 1,070 apprenticeship apprenticeships are in administration, more than 60,000 places have been created—a vast 88% increase from are in retail and fewer than one sixth are in engineering 2010. That is ahead of the national average by 86%, but and construction? What does that say about the underlying unfortunately it lags slightly behind the west midlands 249 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 250 average of 91%. We should feel a great sense of pride play in encouraging and inspiring young people to enter at what has been achieved and we can do more. the manufacturing sector, like I did when I left university Apprenticeships have a vital role to play in driving in 1997. We need to encourage more people to enter down unemployment and getting young people into work. manufacturing and engineering, not just when they In South Staffordshire, we are blessed not to have an leave university, but when they are at school or finishing exceptionally high rate of unemployment, but that is college. That is the opportunity. down to the fact that we are proactive in driving down People often see an apprenticeship as second rate. I unemployment. Since 2010, South Staffordshire district was recently looking at job adverts—not for me, I council has been running job clubs right across the hope—and perusing the internet. Jaguar Land Rover, constituency.South Staffordshire does not have a jobcentre which is spending £500 million in my constituency and it is often difficult for people to access their services, building a new engine plant, will be employing more so we have been running job clubs in Wombourne, than 1,400 people and apprentices of different ages. It Kinver, Codsall, Bilbrook, Great Wyrley and many will be an enormous boost not just to South Staffordshire, other villages right across my constituency to help but to the whole west midlands. I was looking at its people both young and old to access employment. They higher apprenticeships programme and the qualifications are not just about guiding and encouraging people, needed: a minimum of five GCSEs at grade C or above, telling them how to make their CVs better and giving including in maths, English and a core science subject; them the confidence to go out and get a job; they bring an A-level at grade C or above in a mathematical employers to them. It is with great pride that, working subject; an A-level at grade C or above in a science, with my district council, we will have a jobs fair at technology or an engineering-related subject. Perton civic centre on 26 April. Already, many major I am afraid that most people in the Chamber would local employers have committed to attend, bringing probably be precluded from applying. These are not jobs and employment opportunities to all in South second-rate jobs and apprenticeships are not second-rate Staffordshire. I hope it will be a great success, and I careers; they are our future. It is all about encouraging know that many Opposition Members have been doing employment in engineering and manufacturing. The similar things in their own constituencies. Government have made massive strides, not just in South Staffordshire, but in the west midlands, where the Paul Farrelly (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab): Will number of apprenticeships has increased by 91%. I the hon. Gentleman give some recognition to the efforts encourage the Minister to keep driving forward towards in north Staffordshire, where, to encourage more apprentices, more advanced apprenticeships, because it will make on Thursday evening KMF Engineering from Newcastle- the country grow and prosper. under-Lyme is hosting its young engineer of the year awards at the Britannia stadium in Stoke-on-Trent? The Several hon. Members rose— following day, with the national apprenticeship scheme, Newcastle borough council and Newcastle-under-Lyme Mr Speaker: Order. Eleven right hon. and hon. Members college, we are launching the latest 100 in 100 campaign are still seeking to catch my eye. The Front-Bench to recruit apprentices to local businesses. winding-up speeches must begin at, or very close to, 6.40. To accommodate remaining colleagues, I am reducing Gavin Williamson: My fellow Staffordshire MP the time limit on Back-Bench speeches, with immediate demonstrates how enthusiastic Staffordshire MPs are to effect, to five minutes, though if Members can be briefer, encourage apprenticeships and bring employment to that would help one and all. our constituencies regardless of our political colour. All such schemes make a genuine difference. 5.57 pm We have talked about public procurement. One of the Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): I was biggest creators of apprenticeships in South Staffordshire going to thank the last Labour Government for initiating is G4S, which has recently won the bid to run Oakwood national apprenticeships week, but I have now learned prison near the village of Featherstone. As part of its that more specifically I need to thank my right hon. winning bid, 190 offender management apprenticeship Friend the Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), who places have been created. That should be welcomed. was the Minister who brought in this wonderful celebration The private sector is being highly proactive in looking at of apprentices, businesses and our economy. I am pleased how we get more employment, more apprenticeships to say that it is being celebrated in my constituency, and how we start to give young people and older people culminating in North Tyneside’s showcase event on the opportunity to get into work. Saturday, “Get up and Go”, where young people, parents As I am sure that other Members have found, far too and carers can learn about local apprenticeship often when we speak to local schools or colleges, either opportunities and what it is like to earn and learn across here in Parliament or in our constituencies, and ask a spectrum of jobs. them, “Who wants to go to university?” 90% or 95% of This year, the borough’s apprentice employer of the hands go up, but if we ask them, “Who wants to get an year—for businesses employing more than 250 people—was apprenticeship?” very few people put up their hand. We insurethebox, a company based at Quorum business have to ensure that people understand that apprenticeships park at Longbenton in my constituency. It is a relatively are as good, if not better than going to university. new company that now employs 290 people from across The Engineering Employers Federation recently raised the whole region. Its staff proactively enter schools and the depressing statistic that less than 50% of schoolteachers colleges in the area, teaching students about the world encourage people to go into manufacturing and engineering, of work and offering work experience, with the aim of and almost one quarter positively discourage them. increasing the company’s apprenticeship work force to Apprenticeships have an incredibly important role to achieve a ratio of 1:10. Since 2011, the company has 251 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 252

[Mrs Mary Glindon] I am proud to represent a constituency with a strong manufacturing base and a strong and vibrant logistics taken on 31 apprentices between the ages of 16 and 24, industry. Apprenticeships have always been a feature of six of whom are now fully qualified. Once they are these industries. When I meet the wealth creators in recruited by insurethebox, which accounts for two thirds Thurrock, without exception they are people who have of the UK telematics market, the apprentices get the learned their skills in the workplace. That fact needs opportunity to develop their careers, moving into areas to be understood. For many people, choosing an such as human resources, claims handling and underwriting. apprenticeship will be the most effective route to their I was happy to learn that this modern, forward-looking personal advancement. I would like to highlight some company wants to increase its apprenticeships even successful local programmes and, in doing so, highlight further as part of its recruitment drive. some areas where the Government could do more to As part of national apprenticeship week, I visited encourage better apprenticeships. Fabricon Offshore Services, which is another company The port of Tilbury has always offered a number of based at the Quorum business park. The company is a apprenticeships each year, placing a high emphasis on leading provider of brownfield engineering, procurement, skills and even establishing its own logistics academy to construction and project management services to the provide bespoke training that suits its business. This offshore oil and gas industry, through a range of technical year the port has developed a new apprenticeship in services and solutions. I was there to shadow one of the health and safety, which is central to its business, as six first-year engineering apprentices, 18-year-old Darius ports are hazardous places. The port has advised me, Bahrami from Sunderland. Darius had studied A-levels however, that the apprenticeship framework can often at school, but unlike many of his friends he had decided prove inflexible for the kind of training that it wishes to to take up an engineering apprenticeship, as opposed to offer. I suggest to the Minister that we need to ensure going to university.He told me that a number of his friends that the framework focuses on equipping workers with wished that they, too, had taken up an apprenticeship, the intended skill, rather than just ticking boxes. as opposed to following a university career. Apart from In addition to the established industries, Thurrock experiencing how software is used in engineering, I also has an emerging centre of excellence in the creative attended a “Lesson learnt” presentation with Darius industries. My hon. Friend the Minister saw this for and other first-year apprentices, which was given by one himself only last week, when he visited the new Backstage of Fabricon’s now qualified apprentices, Carl Blewitt, Centre, which will provide a great deal of training who explained the process of going from being an through putting on live musical and theatrical events. apprentice to becoming a junior mechanical engineer. The creative industries are a growing sector, but it is He is now at university. I saw in him a very good role also a sector that is characterised by self-employment model for his first-year colleagues. and small and medium-sized enterprises. That is another Those apprentices are fortunate to be working at a area in which the Government really need to do more fast-growing company such as Fabricon. They enjoy the work. It can be daunting for a sole trader to take on the best training possible and are up to scratch. As well as onus and responsibility of managing an apprentice, but gaining sought-after experience, they receive HNC the National Skills Academy for Creative & Cultural qualifications. However, Fabricon, like other companies has provided a collective framework to enable a number in the industry, is fighting to fill a skills gap. One third of SMEs and sole traders to come together and offer of its staff are over 55. That is because businesses in the training to young people. There is a need to pass on oil and gas industry cut back on the number of trainees those skills to other people if we are going to make the and apprentices they took on in the ’80s and ’90s. Given most of that growing industry, in which Britain leads the rapidly diminishing window to recruit people quickly the world. enough to replace the ageing work force while still “downloading”skills and experience from people currently I want to highlight the example of a particular individual in post, companies such as Fabricon are battling. Because who is currently going through his apprenticeship with of the skills gap and its commitment to skills and the Royal Opera House. Not all Members will know development, Fabricon has launched its own dedicated this, but the Royal Opera House’s production park is in offshore services academy, which is providing full training my constituency of Thurrock. Everything that those for apprentices and working with the universities in the Members who enjoy going to the opera see on stage has area. been made in Thurrock—and very proud of that we are, too. Another thing I would like to highlight is the fact that the Government now require those over 24 to apply for The Royal Opera House’s current apprentice is a a 24+ advanced learning loan, which my local TyneMet young man named Jamie Ashwell. He decided to take college has said will be a barrier to people becoming mature up the offer of an apprenticeship rather than doing a apprentices. I have highlighted the fact that there are stage management degree at university. For Jamie, the two fantastic things happening in North Tyneside— choice was simple. He is working for a world-leading arts organisation, getting experience of real projects Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry, but the hon. Lady’s and working with leading practitioners in the industry—and time is up. he is being paid, to boot. I envisage that, in the future, some of the strongest apprenticeship places will be as 6.3 pm hotly contested as some of our most prestigious university Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): It is a pleasure places. to participate in this debate, which has been characterised The apprenticeship route also suits the Royal Opera by positive and constructive contributions from all parts House. It needs people with real practical skills in the of the House. That shows just how much support there type of work that it does. People with arts degrees who is for more and better apprenticeships. apply for jobs in its costume or make-up departments, 253 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 254 for example, do not necessarily have the required technical in the United Kingdom as a whole, where youth skills. By offering apprenticeships, the Royal Opera unemployment has never been higher. The country’s House can train people up in areas such as bespoke youth continue to bear the brunt of the lack of jobs in tailoring and wig-making—true crafts that are not available the UK. We desperately need to get our young people to those studying for degrees. into training and apprenticeships. They must be given every possible opportunity to improve and hone the Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab): I have had the skills that they require in order to obtain jobs in the privilege of visiting the set-up at Thurrock, but there future. was one thing that I really missed. Under the former As we have heard, the Business, Innovation and Skills future jobs fund, the Royal Opera House created a Committee, in a report published in the autumn of programme that went wider than the apprenticeships as 2012, gave its backing to public procurement to boost a way of bringing in young people to learn the skills apprenticeships. That would create tens of thousands of that the hon. Lady is describing. It had a wonderful jobs, and would help to alleviate some of the vast youth group of young people studying there as a result of that unemployment that is currently rife throughout the scheme but, sadly, it is no longer available to young UK. I implemented a procurement policy in 2007, when people who would like to learn about working at the I was leader of my council in Inverclyde, and that may Royal Opera House. be where the Government got the idea. When we were renewing our school estates, we saw the need not just to Jackie Doyle-Price: The hon. Lady makes a good have new schools but to secure jobs and apprenticeships point, but the Royal Opera House continues to engage for the pupils, and we wrote that into our terms and in a really big outreach programme involving local schools. conditions. It was very successful, which is one of the She makes an important point, however, because one of other reasons why youth unemployment is being kept the ways of attracting young people and demonstrating low in Inverclyde. It fell then by over 20%. We asked the opportunities afforded by apprenticeships is to open firms not only to take on apprentices, but to commit their eyes. It has been pointed out that schools often themselves to a percentage of local labour. place an emphasis on universities, but we really need to In the private sector, I have been supporting technology, ensure that they take advantage of every opportunity to most recently the 4G network. This week our local open young people’s eyes to what is on offer. mobile phone company, Everything Everywhere, announced I encourage the Minister to look at what more can be the launch of 13 modern apprenticeships. It is committed done to support the efforts of smaller firms and, in to continuing to employ young people, and to introducing particular, sole traders to offer apprenticeships. We an apprenticeship programme that we hope will run for need to unlock and encourage the entrepreneurism in many years and give them long-term jobs. those growing industries, and to look at the apprenticeship Another initiative that has been extremely successful framework, but I think that all Members on both sides in Inverclyde is our award-winning Recruit programme. of the House can congratulate themselves on the renewed As we have heard from many Members today, schools emphasis that we have placed on this important way of need more than just brief career advice from industry. providing our young people with the skills that they We brought schools and industry together, and young need to make the best of themselves. people gave up their time to participate in what was probably the longest interview that they would ever Several hon. Members rose— have. The initiative has been running for more than five years and has been extremely successful, putting tens of Mr Speaker: Order. I am sorry, but the time limit young people into jobs and giving them the best possible needs to be reduced to 4 minutes, as my exhortations to start in life. It has been replicated by some neighbouring brevity have so far fallen on deaf ears. authorities, and has been seen across Scotland as a trail blazer. 6.9 pm Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): As we have 6.13 pm heard today from Members on both sides of the House, the debate is extremely welcome in what is currently a Mike Crockart (Edinburgh West) (LD): Thank you, tough economic climate, especially for young people. I Mr. Speaker. It is entirely apt that you are in the Chair, shall refer not only to this apprenticeship week but to given your interest in this issue. the apprenticeship week that we shall celebrate in Scotland In some sectors, apprenticeships are not a new in May, so I shall get two bites at the cherry. development, but have been around for a long time. For I served a formal indentured apprenticeship. That many years plumbers, construction workers and electricians meant that I was tied to my employer for the first five have undertaken apprenticeships, whether centrally led years of my working life, for which I received an extra or employer-led. Their industries have long acknowledged £5 a week. I am therefore well aware of the value of an that learning on the job, building up knowledge and apprenticeship, and I believe that it means more than skills, gaining qualifications and earning money, all at just learning a skill or trade. Like many other Members, the same time, is valuable and appealing to many young I have been working with companies in the constituency, people. encouraging them to consider taking on more apprentices Other sectors have been much slower to cotton on. and starting apprenticeship programmes themselves. It Some remain entirely in the dark. It has been argued has been successful to a degree, and it is one of the that companies are not taking on trainees because of reasons why we in Inverclyde have so far escaped the the difficulty of offering places when there is no set worst ravages of youth unemployment. That, however, qualification to work towards, but that has not actually is not the case in Scotland overall or, as we have heard, been the case. I checked the National Apprenticeship 255 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 256

[Mike Crockart] but much closer to home. Until we put our own house in order, it is far more difficult to urge others to do the Service website today. The “types of apprenticeships” same. are broken down into 10 categories covering everything from agriculture to the arts and from leisure to law. There are now hundreds, if not thousands, of different 6.17 pm apprenticeships, which rather prompts the question to the companies “What is missing?” Mr Jamie Reed (Copeland) (Lab): We should see apprenticeships as one of the hallmarks of a good I did find “Building Energy Management Systems”. society. It is all well and good—probably in a stereotypical Let me go off at a tangent for a moment in order to fashion—to consider apprenticeships to be the domain demonstrate that it is not just up to the Government to of blue-collar families. It is true that decades ago securing tackle this problem. a good apprenticeship with good employment prospects was the pinnacle of achievement for many working-class I recently met Scottish entrepreneur Sir William Haughey families. De-industrialisation changed the dynamic, as at an event in my constituency. He was wearing a gold did the rise in the number of students from working-class “H” lapel pin, and I presumed, correctly, that that was families attending university, but the situation is changing not just because it was one of his initials, but because it again. Where we used to describe young people from related to his Youth with Hope scheme, which I am working-class families and communities as “blue-collar”, happy to support today by wearing a similar pin. Sir William admittedly using an American political affectation, we is known for his straightforward ways; in his words, “2.9 should now see them not as blue-collar workers but as million publicly listed companies. 1.3 million unemployed blue-scholar workers from blue-scholar families. They youths. You do the maths.” He seeks to motivate and understand the need to learn constantly, to innovate inspire organisations of all capacities to play their part and to change in order to keep themselves, their families, in addressing the needs and aspirations of the young. their communities, and our country and its economy One flagship idea that he has launched is that of “green among the world’s leaders. If we do not seek to provide champions”, whereby young people are employed by opportunities for these young people, their communities large companies to promote sustainable building and their families—families like my own—we will fail management, and energy and resource efficiency practices. them, our economy and the nation. Given that 40% of the UK’s carbon emissions are down to the way in which our buildings are lit, heated and When we talk about rebalancing our economy, we run, it is easy to see how the green champions could must acknowledge the national need for successful soon pay their own way. In 2009, the audit of Government apprenticeships. We do not simply need a series of buildings—264 of them—found that they had an average apprenticeship schemes; we need an apprenticeship culture, F rating, with only two Departments managing a rating which should be embedded among our public and private of D or above. So I hope I can tell the Youth with Hope sectors, and we should be able to interchange between team to expect a call from the Minister. the two. Looking to the future, we have to recognise that planning for economic growth and planning for In a lot of industries, including competitive ones such economic success is not the same as having a planned as public relations, advertising, marketing and third economy. The energy sector will command billions of sector fundraising, young people have been encouraged pounds of public money over a very long period, and it to work with companies to gain experience—it is just is only right that private companies in that sector and that they have expected the youngster to work for free. others like it, which are in receipt of public investment, Indeed, many in this Chamber have been guilty of should reciprocate with effective apprenticeship offering similar places—the opportunity to gain experience programmes. in a competitive field, with the incentive being a possible In terms of effective corporate social responsibility, job at the end of it—and some possibly still do that. I there are few better ways of leaving a lasting legacy, am not claiming to be whiter than white; I offered a contributing towards the betterment of society and couple of short unpaid internships in my first year in securing a loyal, committed and productive work force the House. I was uneasy with that and I quickly moved than by investing in continuous personal development. to using the Speaker’s parliamentary placement scheme Apprenticeships are potentially the best way in which and the New Deal of the Mind’s parliamentary academy. any company in any sector can do that. If the Government One of my apprentices, Alice Hannam, has given me are as committed in practice as they claim to be in their a quote that states the benefits far better than I can: rhetoric, surely they will demand that those undertaking large public contracts should have apprenticeship places “Being an apprentice has completely transformed me. It has for younger people written into those contracts. I urge given me a real boost in confidence. I have felt empowered to take this Government to do that, as I would the next Labour on challenges which I would not have thought possible—such as a Government. degree and securing a job in Parliament. This issue is of particular importance to my constituency, I really cannot stress enough how great it has been to receive which is home to the Sellafield nuclear facility, where on the job training whilst being paid to do a job I enjoy and receive a qualification at the end of it.” £1.6 billion of public money is spent each year. The site is publicly owned by the Nuclear Decommissioning May I finish by urging all hon. Members, both those in Authority and is operated privately by Nuclear Management the Chamber, and those who are not here, to find out Partners, the parent company of Sellafield Ltd. Sellafield about these schemes, which give opportunities to people Ltd takes on an average of 70 apprentices a year, one of who, because of their background, would not normally the highest intakes in the country, and 18% of its be able to take up unpaid positions? I urge hon. Members to engineering apprentices are young women compared promote such schemes, not only in their own constituencies, with a national average of about 3%. Although that is 257 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 258 nowhere near enough, credit should be given where it is along with the Labour Government, began to promote due and I want to commend Sellafield Ltd on that apprenticeships. I hope he agrees that we have carried achievement. that work on. I mentioned Nuclear Management Partners, which Let me flag up three issues that I urge the Government holds one of the most important and lucrative public to consider closely, as we have the Minister here. We sector contracts in the UK and is currently in the throes have talked about schools and I am sure he knows that of a contract renegotiation with the NDA. The Chair of unless there is a clear rationale for schools to tick a box the Public Accounts Committee has made a withering to show that they are doing something, they will not do assessment of the fees earned from the public purse by it. I work very closely with the secondary schools in NMP, which were £54 million in the last year alone. She Eastbourne, which are very pro-apprenticeships, but points out: they say, bluntly, “Stephen, there is not a lot of point in our selling apprenticeships because we don’t get any “Public money to the tune of £1.6 billion is being spent at Sellafield each year. This is an area of considerable deprivation bonus for getting 100 apprenticeships.”I urge the Minister with high unemployment. We are looking for there to be clearer to discuss that with the Secretary of State for Education; ambition that spending on this huge scale contributes to creating let us do some creative thinking. jobs and supports sustainable growth in the region and the UK.” The second issue is quality, particularly when expansion That is an accurate and succinct analysis of what needs is so rapid, and everybody recognises that we must keep to be done. Apprenticeships, job creation and significant an eye on that. I ask the Minister to keep focusing on capital investments are all part of the contribution quality. In seven or eight years, if we keep up our identified by the Public Accounts Committee as being commitment to apprenticeships, they will have the same necessary from NMP.On the day the Government admit gravitas as apprenticeships in Germany. We should not that they do not have the money they need to build the forget, however, that some young people do not have schools they have promised, it requires only a fairly the most academic education or background, and we do simple exercise in joining the dots for NMP to understand not want to set the lower rung for apprenticeships so one of the principal areas where its new contribution high that they cannot get on to it. We must keep a close must be made. eye on that. I hope that Ministers, with and through the Nuclear The subsidy for small and medium-sized enterprises Decommissioning Authority and as part of the ongoing is a strong idea, and within nine months of the general contractual negotiation, will help to deliver a better, election I was urging it on the Business Secretary. I am more constructive and equitable settlement for my delighted that after consideration, the Government moved community, for this country and for the taxpayer. down that road. I think it involves 40,000 SMEs a year. Despite the challenges in the economic envelope, I urge the Government to keep expanding the scheme over the 6.21 pm next few years. Many SMEs have taken on apprentices— about 10%—and if more can do so it would be utterly Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD): I have really enjoyed transformational. the debate, which has been constructive on both sides of the House. The challenge with such debates is always the shortage of time and, like many other Members, I 6.24 pm could talk about apprenticeships for a long time. I shall keep my speech brief, however. Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab): Today I had the honour and privilege of spending a couple of hours For me, this subject is all about jobs. I was planning with an amazing group of young people—some of the an apprenticeship initiative well before I was elected apprentices from MBDA, an advanced manufacturing and I am pleased that I was elected as it meant that I company in my constituency. They are sitting in the could implement it. I was one of the first Members to Public Gallery listening to our debate. do a 100 apprenticeship in 100 days campaign and in Eastbourne we achieved 181 apprenticeships, which Anyone visiting the apprentices at Lostock is blown was superb for the town. That momentum continued away by their quality and competence, as well as by strongly and, according to the latest figures, since the MBDA’s commitment to them, led by Bernie Waldron, general election Eastbourne has recruited more than the managing director of manufacturing, and Gareth 2,100 new apprentices, more than any other town across Humphreys, the human resources adviser on education, the whole of the south-east and more than the constituencies both of whom started as apprentices at the company. in Brighton. It works. MBDA does not just teach apprentices skills for the workplace, but concentrates on growing the whole person. A lot of that success is down to the partnership Personal development is just as important as formal working between local businesses, training organisations qualifications. and Sussex Downs college and to the focus on making The young people are entered into competitions such apprenticeships work. That goes back to the jobs agenda. as World Skills. The view that young people are diamonds In Eastbourne, we are running at a conversion rate of in the rough that just need polishing shines through about 90%, which is stunning. That means that 90% of everything they do. They are currently taking part in people involved are in full-time work after their the second year of the Brathay challenge; the aim of the apprenticeships. regional stage is to raise the profile of apprenticeships Irrespective of the party political disagreements, I and complete a community project. I wish all the think that Members are, broadly speaking, united in competitors well, but I am keeping my fingers crossed recognising modern apprenticeships. I pay tribute to the that the apprentices from Lostock will be victorious, right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), who, although I should like to persuade the organisers to 259 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 260

[Julie Hilling] I have some questions about the motion. First, because there is so much support for apprenticeships, will the change the final event to one of skill, not just strength, Opposition withdraw it so that we do not need to vote which militates against companies that ensure they have on it? Secondly, if there is to be a vote, will the Minister mixed-gender teams. confirm its legality? As I understand the motion—I am MBDA has 62 apprentices: 35 young women and not a legal expert—it commits not only the Government, 28 young men. It is a great achievement for an engineering but local authorities and others using public money to company. MBDA runs a four-year programme, and put the requirement to offer apprenticeships into contracts, the apprentices complete ONC, HNC, HND and and I am not sure whether we are allowed to do that. NVQ level 4. Business apprentices complete a business Will the Minister clarify whether that is a legal issue management degree, NVQ 4 and the City and Guilds that we need to be concerned about before we vote? I senior award. It is a fantastic programme, growing the am happy to support the trend of the motion but I next generation of employees. would not like to vote for something that cannot be delivered for legal reasons. I am sure the Minister can MBDA apprentices go into schools to promote take advice before he winds up and clarify whether we apprenticeships in engineering. It is a bit of a shock to are able to commit local authorities, for example, to the pupils when beautifully turned-out young women tell requirement in the motion. I also question whether we them that they are engineers, but sadly, many schools would fall foul of value for money contracts by insisting still see apprenticeships as a choice for their less able on companies meeting the requirement. I would like students, not for their high flyers. clearance on that before I vote. Jade told me about her experience. Following a visit to her college from MBDA apprentices, she decided to It is great that we have apprenticeships in progress. apply for an apprenticeship. Her electronics tutor supported We already do what the motion calls for, apart from her, but he was the only one. Other tutors said: “What committing other authorities to the requirement to are you doing an apprenticeship for when you could be offer apprenticeship opportunities. The major companies going to university?”, “You’re too clever to do an that we deal with already do so and I support that, but I apprenticeship”, and “You show too much potential. would like clarity from the Minister that we would be You need to go to university if you want to progress in a voting on a motion that could legally be implemented. career.” Some of those people changed their minds, but recently 6.30 pm a teacher told a family friend of Jade’s: “I always thought Jade would do better, would have gone to Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I support the motion university and achieved good grades.” and thank the hon. Member for Blackpool South Hurtfully, the teacher went on to say that they always (Mr Marsden) for bringing it before the House. The knew that Jade would just float along in something easy House always excels when it debates a subject on which and stick to what she knew, although she had the everyone agrees, and here we have a subject matter on potential to do so much more. which everyone can agree. As Jade says, her apprenticeship is far from easy: Apprenticeships are essential to give young people a “I am currently studying for my HNC, working three and a start. In my constituency, many businesses have offered half days a week, training two nights for my rugby team.” apprenticeships, whether in Bombardier Aerospace, I forgot to say that she is in the England student team Huddleston Engineering or even through the local technical and plays at the weekend. She says that she is college. As this is a devolved matter, in Northern Ireland “finding time for my friends and boyfriend. It takes a lot of hard £8 million has been allocated to Steps to Work and work and I have to make sacrifices but the rewards all come at the £5.8 million to a return to work programme. These are end.” just two examples of good schemes that deliver. Jade’s view is shared by Beth Sherbourne who recently On Monday I had the opportunity to visit the jobcentre won the higher apprentice of the year award. Beth said: in my constituency and I did so in order to hear what it “Instead of a £40,000 debt I’ve got a first class honours degree, was doing and to hear about the programmes it offers four years work experience, a well paid job and a Mini Cooper.” and the success it has achieved. It bases its success on The apprentices at MBDA show what can be achieved job outcomes. It has a clear target which it aims to by young people. We need to do far more to encourage achieve. Whether through Steps to Work or Pathways to young people to undertake apprenticeships. Today I Work, young people are getting jobs, and that is important. asked them if they had any regrets about going for Like other Members in their constituencies, we have an apprenticeship. Unanimously they said that they had issued challenges to businesses in our communities to no regrets at all. take young people on. In my constituency, there is an opportunity for everyone in pharmaceuticals, food Several hon. Members rose— processing, light engineering and agri-food, which is a growth industry. Businesses and companies must step Mr Speaker: Order. I am now reducing the time limit up to the bar and be prepared to take people on. to three minutes to try to accommodate the remaining four would-be contributors. I hope that when the Minister replies he will give some indication of the incentives that the Government 6.29 pm can offer businesses to encourage them to offer Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD): We all support apprenticeships. If they do so, the young men and apprenticeships and think they are a good idea, and we women of tomorrow can have jobs. Like other Members, all congratulate the young people and the companies I took on a young man as an apprentice in my office involved. here. After he had spent three years on a course, I offered 261 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 262 him a job because of the qualifications that he obviously example of Germany, where apprentices take an exam had, but also because he had the ability and an interest at the end of their apprenticeship, like a driving test. in it, and he needed that opportunity. There is a qualification standard for each and every The Prince’s Trust is one of the great organisations sector, so that employers know exactly what they are getting. that we all know and love, and we all recognise the good Unless we grasp the nettle now and unless we bring work it does. The hon. Member for Vale of Clwyd about real quality apprenticeships, we risk falling even (Chris Ruane) spoke some time ago about depression further behind India and China, and that is the worst among young people. Among those who are not in thing that we could do for our young people. work, 70% are depressed, and of those who are in work, 50% are depressed. It is a big problem that has not been 6.36 pm touched on, but perhaps we can have an indication of what can be done about it. Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab): Not every young person wants to go to university, or indeed can afford In my constituency, 750 young people of 24 and to. From a young age, we should be promoting the under are unemployed. They need the opportunity offered range of options available post-school, but the Government by apprenticeships. The big employers are in agri-food, have seen fit to scrap work experience at key stage 4 and tourism, engineering and pharmaceuticals. If we can career guidance. Insufficient apprenticeships are available encourage each business to take someone on, that would for those who want one, particularly for 16 and 17-year-olds. help. We need to increase basic skill levels in literacy, Rotherham college of arts and technology faces a cut in numeracy and mechanics to help people fill in the forms its funding that means that it will lose 280 places for this to get a job. As parliamentarians we have a responsibility age group, despite 14.7% of young people in Rotherham to help young people who are struggling. If we can being unemployed—twice the national average. deliver a vibrant and rigorous apprenticeship system, that will make a real difference to young people, to In Rotherham, we are particularly short of apprenticeship businesses and, in the long term, to the economy as places for engineering, even though we have the advance a whole. manufacturing park in the area. The main obstacle employers cite when looking to take on an apprentice aged under 21 is the perceived bureaucracy involved. 6.33 pm However, this week, Tata Steel in Rotherham has announced Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op): It is always a 29 apprenticeships, and other organisations there are pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim also proactively looking to increase the number of Shannon) and to hear his Irish accent. The Celtic fringe apprentices they support. I understand that some employers is present in force today in this debate. are nervous about the investment that they will need to make in a young person before seeing any return. However, I begin with the good news that apprenticeship week my experience is that this initial investment pays off is being celebrated in Wales with £40 million being tenfold, as employers have a worker who understands given by the Labour-led Welsh Assembly for expanding their systems and is keen to demonstrate commitment. apprenticeships. Has the Minister had the chance to read the statement by the Welsh Assembly Minister I urge the Government to use public procurement to announcing a one-off payment of £500 to small and boost apprenticeship numbers. For a company bidding micro-businesses to overcome the barriers to employing for a public sector contract worth more than £1 million, apprentices? I hope that he will think about introducing part of its contractual obligation should be to provide something similar throughout the country. apprenticeships. This recommendation was supported by the cross-party Business, Innovation and Skills The idea of apprentices always conjures up romantic Committee, but to date has not been acted on. I mentioned images from the ’50s and ’60s of the draughtsman, the lack of placements for engineering apprentices in the plumber and the electrician taking a five-year Rotherham. If the Government adopted this policy in apprenticeship. As much as I welcome apprentices and public procurement, High Speed 2, which will come apprenticeship week, I am concerned that a number of through Rotherham, would create 33,000 new people believe that they are following an apprenticeship apprenticeships throughout the country, immediately when they are doing nothing of the sort. It is not the making obsolete the problem of the lack of engineering regeneration of apprenticeships, but the rebadging of places. apprenticeships. I think of Morrisons as the largest employer of apprentices in this country. One in 10 For me, the only way out of a recession is to work our apprentices work at Morrisons, but what are they way out. I urge the Government to support apprenticeships apprenticed to do? What profession will they come out more fully to enable our young people to do that. with? Is it a meat cutter, a green grocer or a fishmonger? Because of that, I support the motion. I do not know, and I hope that we will look into that. 6.38 pm Apprenticeships that last only a matter of weeks or months devalue great apprenticeship schemes such as Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab): We have those at Pensord Press in Pontllanfraith in my constituency two tasks to fulfil today and I believe that we have and in Jaguar Land Rover in the constituency of the fulfilled them. The first, arguably the most important, hon. Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy). The Richard was to celebrate national apprenticeship week and report bears that out. He noted two things that I have apprentices. We have had speeches from Members on seen myself: the quality and the quantity of apprenticeships. both sides of the House doing exactly that. From the I was hoping to develop this point further, but I have Opposition Benches we had strong speeches from my hon. only a minute. At the moment we have box-ticking, and Friends the Members for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon), many companies do not appreciate the worth of for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie), and for Bolton West apprenticeships. I hope that the Minister will look at the (Julie Hilling). They spoke of their constituency experiences 263 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 264

[Ms Karen Buck] though apprenticeships may be in the fields of office work and administration, health and public services and praised those involved in delivering apprenticeships, and retail and commercial enterprises, they account for whether SMEs, large employers, training agencies, and 71% of all 19 to 24-year-old apprenticeship growth. colleges. There has been a recent fall in the number of construction Further education colleges do not get the attention apprenticeships and relatively modest growth in areas and praise they deserve in this House. They are central such as engineering. We will need greater growth in to the delivery of the skills agenda in respect of those vital sectors if we are going to help young men as apprenticeships. Apprenticeships deliver £3.4 billion of well as young women and address some of the crises in value to the economy, so they are not only good for the youth unemployment and unemployment among black people undertaking them; they are also good for the and minority ethnic communities. wider economy. We have given them the praise that they There are other anxieties as well. Why in 2011-12 did deserve today, and I hope people will pay attention to achievement rates fall across all groups for the first the fact that there is cross-party consensus on the value time? The Minister must address that. How effective is of apprenticeships. the new careers advice and guidance regime in ensuring Our second task, however, is to draw attention to that the apprenticeship pathway is seen as a valued what more needs to be done and to what we can do option for young people? The Association of Colleges better—and there is a great deal that we can do better. says: The BIS Select Committee Chair, my hon. Friend the “As a flagship Government policy, apprenticeships must be Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey), mapped effectively promoted. The general lack of awareness and understanding out the Committee’s important recommendations and of apprenticeships amongst young people and the wider public is drew attention to the core tasks we all face in raising the a serious issue.” status of apprenticeships: the task of acquiring parity Several speakers on both sides of the House have mentioned of esteem for people going through the apprenticeship the survey that found that just 7% of young people are pathway; and the importance of increasing capacity able to name apprenticeships as a post-GCSE option. and the role procurement can play in that. Some Members The Government must urgently address that. may remember the Monty Python sketch involving a summary of Proust. My hon. Friend managed to Labour has a clear vision for vocational education summarise his Select Committee’s recommendations and apprenticeships. We will introduce a technical even more quickly, as I think Monty Python allowed a baccalaureate at 18—a gold standard in vocational little longer than six minutes. education, held in high esteem, that will command the Opposition Members have critiqued the Government confidence of business, parents and pupils. Through in a variety of ways, including by drawing attention to the measures outlined today we will confront head on the worrying fall in the number of places for young the shortage of high-quality apprenticeships for young people, especially those aged between 16 and 18. We people. We will put business in the driving seat on skills have talked about the growth in apprenticeship numbers— and apprenticeships. Our taskforce, led by Professor there has been significant growth, which started well Chris Husbands, will bring forward recommendations before 2010—but they include places that were rebadged, on apprenticeships and skills for 14 to 19-year-olds, a such as adult training schemes originally provided under joined-up approach to the education and skills challenges Train to Gain. The abolition of Train to Gain may have we face as a country. led to the loss of as many as half a million training We need a stronger voice for business in delivering places, and included in the quarter of a million increase the skills agenda we need to compete in the global race. in the number of apprenticeships are a substantial We need a system that is more responsive to the needs of number of adult apprenticeships that would previously local economies and that will drive forward the generation have been classified as adult training. Adult training is of new opportunities. Government procurement is one important and valuable, but it is not the same as means to that end. We are confident that the procurement apprenticeships, as the Richard report makes clear. measures set out in our motion will do exactly what we We have a long way to go to deliver the quality and expect them to do and will not fall foul of European range of apprenticeships, particularly for young people, rules or others. that the Richard review recommended. The Association We are looking at how to improve the quality of of Colleges says: advice given to young people, following the shake-up of “Currently there are insufficient apprenticeships available for careers advice and guidance, which was heavily criticised those who want one, particularly for 16 and 17 year olds. Despite by, among others, the Education Committee. We want incentive programmes such as the Youth Contract, employers to review the impact of the removal of the work experience remain reluctant to employ ‘untested’ young people, preferring requirement at key stage 4, which a number of Members those with more experience.” have mentioned today. I want schools and colleges to The National Apprenticeship Service has also drawn provide apprenticeship taster days to teenagers. If pupils attention to the fact that there are 10 applications can take a few days out of the classroom to visit for every apprenticeship, so the level of unmet need is universities, I do not see why the same principle should clearly significant. not apply to apprenticeships. Young people from age 14 We also need to take a careful look at the balance of should be able to get the opportunity to visit companies available apprenticeships across sectors. That point was that offer apprenticeships to see what is involved in made in powerful speeches by my right hon. Friend the the programme and understand the training and Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) and my hon. career opportunities available. That is Labour’s plan for Friends the Members for Islwyn (Chris Evans) and for apprenticeships, putting them at the heart of a new Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden). Welcome vision for vocational education in this country. 265 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 266

In this national apprenticeship week we want to see a only highlight, as they have in the past, the proportion commitment to using the powers of Government to boost of pupils going to university but, for the first time, apprenticeship numbers and, especially, to meet the publish for all schools the proportion going into needs of a young generation facing almost unprecedented apprenticeships. That is an important step, as Members challenges in the workplace. It is simply not good in all parts of the House will recognise. We look forward enough that just 7% of young people see apprenticeships to Ofsted’s report in the summer on the implementation as a post-GCSE alternative. It is not good enough that of the duty to provide independent and impartial careers two thirds of large companies do not provide an advice. apprenticeship programme. It is not good enough that The second issue, which was raised by many Members, the message on the ease of delivery of apprenticeships is the importance of the link between youth unemployment has not got through to nine out of 10 small and medium- and apprenticeships. It is a scandal that youth sized employers. We must do better at making sure that unemployment is as high as it is, falling though it may the barriers in their way are removed. be, when there are skills shortages in key parts of our It is simply not good enough to ignore the potential economy such as engineering and computing. This shows of the procurement process as an effective lever for that the linkage between the education system and the opening up opportunities, particularly for young people, skills system, on the one hand, and employers, on the and particularly in the skills and trades that most of us other, has not been strong enough. As my hon. Friend recognise as being at the heart of an apprenticeship the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) so eloquently programme and that will enable us to compete in the explained, increasing that employer focus is a vital part modern economy with the developed countries that, in of the reforms that we are pursuing. Another part of many cases, are providing apprenticeships at three, four those reforms is the introduction of traineeships so that or five times the rate available in this country. That is as apprenticeships become more rigorous and more why the Opposition have put forward a motion that high-quality, there is a programme of support, alongside praises the culture of apprenticeships, wants to see the DWP programmes, to make sure that people get the more of them provided and wants to see equality of skills they need, including in English, maths and work status for them. That is why I urge Members to support preparation, to get a good job and to hold down a job. the motion. My hon. Friend the Member for South Staffordshire (Gavin Williamson), and the hon. Members for Newcastle- 6.47 pm under-Lyme (Paul Farrelly), for Edinburgh West (Mike Crockart) and for Eastbourne (Stephen Lloyd) also The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Skills talked about the link between youth unemployment and (Matthew Hancock): It is a great pleasure to be here, in apprenticeships. Several Members mentioned their local national apprenticeship week, celebrating apprenticeships. jobs clubs, and I wish them well. I am having a jobs club We have had an extremely positive debate, with almost in Newmarket on Friday and look forward to it very all contributions being positive and huge support on much. both sides of the House for apprenticeships. Success has many fathers. We heard first the claim that The third issue is how much apprenticeships are apprenticeships really got going in 1997. I had planned valued. The Chair of the Select Committee mentioned to say that they were in fact first mentioned in Chaucer the recently published statistic that, on average, a higher 651 years ago, but then we heard the even greater claim apprenticeship increases lifetime earnings by £150,000. from the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy) Let that figure go out there and let us all present and that they are as old as human beings. explain it, because it shows the value of apprenticeships. It has been a great national apprenticeship week so Mr Lammy: The Minister makes a good point, but far. At 5.30 this morning I was learning from Morrisons does he recognise that most of the growth in apprenticeships apprentices how to fillet fish, and what brilliant apprentices is at level 2, not level 3—the higher apprenticeships to they are. It is quite a skill they have with knives—I which he refers? certainly cannot match it. I have only one note of mild disappointment, because the speech we just heard from the Opposition Front Bench was rather disappointing. I Matthew Hancock: I absolutely recognise that there thought that the hon. Member for Westminster North have been increases in the number of apprenticeships (Ms Buck) sounded rather like the sultan of scepticism over the past two and half years in level 2 and level 3, or the Eeyore of apprenticeships, only seeing the worst and we are going to introduce levels 4, 5 and 6. In every and determined to dampen, downgrade and darken the age group there have been increases in the number of mood. But we will not darken the mood, Mr Deputy apprenticeships, and we should celebrate that. Speaker, because apprenticeships are a cause to celebrate, and celebrate them we will. Julie Hilling: Will the Minister give way? Let me turn to the many issues raised by Members across the Chamber. First, careers advice is vital, as the Matthew Hancock: I cannot, I am afraid; I have Chairman of the Select Committee, the hon. Member virtually no time left. for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey), said, as did the The hon. Members for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard right hon. Member for Tottenham, in a powerful speech, Burden), for Rotherham (Sarah Champion), for Bradford and my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) East (Mr Ward), for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) and the hon. Member for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie). and for Copeland (Mr Reed) talked about the value of We have introduced a new statutory duty on schools apprenticeships. In particular, the hon. Member for that came into force in September, and Ofsted has said Copeland spoke powerfully about how apprenticeships that it is making it a priority to consider that. The new now reflect the modern economy and are spreading into destination data that were brought in this summer not relatively new areas of the economy. All this fits the 267 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 268

[Matthew Hancock] We have taken steps to increase quality: we have insisted that people need to continue with English and maths if argument made by the Prime Minister yesterday that they do not haveaCgradeatGCSE, and have said that there should be a new norm in our country whereby there needs to be a minimum of a year in almost all school leavers go to university or into an apprenticeship circumstances and a job as part of an apprenticeship. so that we have a high-skilled economy and a high-skilled The removal of programme-led apprenticeships has work force, not only so that every individual can reach taken out 18,000 apprenticeship places, which is a far their potential—their personal best—but so that our higher number than that for the decrease in apprenticeships economy can compete in the global race. I am glad to for 16 to 19-year-olds over the past year. Under the previous see cross-party consensus on the importance of the Government some apprenticeships did not involve a global race. job, so apprentices were training with no prospect of a The hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) job, and astonishingly, some apprenticeships involved mentioned many things; I was intrigued by her speech. I jobs without training. At their heart, apprenticeships want to pick out her mention of the world skills are about earning and learning at the same time. Increasing competition, which is a brilliant, fascinating and exciting quality is vital and I will not apologise for that. competition that everybody should watch; certainly, I We will respond to the Richard review and are in thoroughly enjoyed watching it. favour of rigorous apprenticeships that are responsive Members have mentioned the need to increase the to employers’ needs. We want to ensure a new norm that number of apprenticeships and I can announce that, in gives everyone a good opportunity to reach their potential. addition to the three apprentices in my private offices, We should not use a target to push people into university the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills will when it may be best for them to go into an apprenticeship. advertise tomorrow for three further apprentices in our Instead, let us provide the best possible opportunities communications department. The numbers are going for young people, through university and apprenticeships, up and up. and a ladder of progression from level 2 to levels 3, 4 and beyond to new areas of the economy, including As my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Gordon legal services and accountancy, as well as the more Birtwistle) and the Minister of State, Department for traditional areas of engineering and construction. In Business, Innovation and Skills, my right hon. Friend that way, we can ensure that there is the potential for the Member for Sevenoaks (Michael Fallon), have said, everybody to succeed. while we and many local authorities are broadly supportive of and, indeed, leading on procurement apprenticeships, Mr Alan Campbell (Tynemouth) (Lab) claimed to such as those with Crossrail, I am concerned that the move the closure (Standing Order No. 36). motion is defective, because it appears to call on the Government to exceed their legal powers. Given my Question put forthwith, That the Question be now assurances, I hope that the Opposition will not push put. for a vote. Question agreed to. Main Question accordingly put. Mr Marsden: The motion states that the Government The House divided: Ayes 237, Noes 292. should use Division No. 181] [6.59 pm “the billions of pounds committed to public procurement”, but our interpretation is that that does not automatically AYES mean procurement in local government, although we Abbott, Ms Diane Bryant, Chris believe that the Government have an important role to Abrahams, Debbie Buck, Ms Karen play in promoting that. I do not understand why the Ainsworth, rh Mr Bob Burden, Richard Minister thinks that the motion is defective. Alexander, rh Mr Douglas Burnham, rh Andy Ali, Rushanara Byrne, rh Mr Liam Matthew Hancock: The phrase “public procurement” Allen, Mr Graham Campbell, Mr Alan Ashworth, Jonathan Campbell, Mr Ronnie could easily be interpreted as including procurement in Austin, Ian Caton, Martin local government, national Government and agencies. Bailey, Mr Adrian Champion, Sarah The motion was tabled only late last night and it would Bain, Mr William Chapman, Jenny not be advisable for the House of Commons to vote for Balls, rh Ed Clark, Katy something that might not be legal. I am afraid that we Banks, Gordon Clarke, rh Mr Tom must resist the motion, but I hope that, given our Barron, rh Mr Kevin Clwyd, rh Ann reassurances, we can all agree on the need for procurement Bayley, Hugh Coaker, Vernon where possible and for it to represent good value for Beckett, rh Margaret Coffey, Ann money. I hope there will not be a vote. Begg, Dame Anne Cooper, Rosie Benn, rh Hilary Cooper, rh Yvette Finally, many Members, including the hon. Member Benton, Mr Joe Corbyn, Jeremy for Islwyn (Chris Evans), mentioned the importance of Berger, Luciana Crausby, Mr David increased quality and employer focus. Members discussed Blackman-Woods, Roberta Creagh, Mary the cross-party desire for parity of esteem among vocational Blears, rh Hazel Creasy, Stella routes, apprenticeships and universities. It is my passionate Blenkinsop, Tom Cruddas, Jon belief that parity of esteem will come from parity of Blomfield, Paul Cryer, John quality. We need to increase quality throughout the Brennan, Kevin Cunningham, Alex apprenticeship system so that all apprentices can be as Brown, Lyn Cunningham, Mr Jim good as the very best at MBDA, Morrisons and Rolls- Brown, rh Mr Nicholas Cunningham, Sir Tony Royce, which have been mentioned by many Members. Brown, Mr Russell Curran, Margaret 269 Apprenticeships12 MARCH 2013 Apprenticeships 270

Danczuk, Simon Jowell, rh Dame Tessa Ruddock, rh Dame Joan Turner, Karl Darling, rh Mr Alistair Joyce, Eric Sarwar, Anas Twigg, Derek Davidson, Mr Ian Kaufman, rh Sir Gerald Seabeck, Alison Twigg, Stephen Davies, Geraint Keeley, Barbara Shannon, Jim Umunna, Mr Chuka De Piero, Gloria Kendall, Liz Sharma, Mr Virendra Vaz, Valerie Denham, rh Mr John Lammy, rh Mr David Sheerman, Mr Barry Walley, Joan Dobbin, Jim Lavery, Ian Sheridan, Jim Watson, Mr Tom Dobson, rh Frank Lazarowicz, Mark Shuker, Gavin Watts, Mr Dave Doran, Mr Frank Leslie, Chris Simpson, David Whitehead, Dr Alan Doughty, Stephen Lewis, Mr Ivan Skinner, Mr Dennis Williams, Hywel Dowd, Jim Llwyd, rh Mr Elfyn Slaughter, Mr Andy Williamson, Chris Dromey, Jack Love, Mr Andrew Smith, rh Mr Andrew Wilson, Phil Dugher, Michael Lucas, Caroline Smith, Angela Wilson, Sammy Durkan, Mark Lucas, Ian Smith, Nick Winnick, Mr David Eagle, Ms Angela Mactaggart, Fiona Smith, Owen Winterton, rh Ms Rosie Eagle, Maria Mahmood, Shabana Straw, rh Mr Jack Woodcock, John Edwards, Jonathan Malhotra, Seema Stringer, Graham Woodward, rh Mr Shaun Efford, Clive Mann, John Tami, Mark Wright, David Elliott, Julie Marsden, Mr Gordon Thomas, Mr Gareth Ellman, Mrs Louise McCabe, Steve Thornberry, Emily Tellers for the Ayes: Engel, Natascha McCann, Mr Michael Timms, rh Stephen Heidi Alexander and Esterson, Bill McCarthy, Kerry Trickett, Jon Nic Dakin Evans, Chris McClymont, Gregg Farrelly, Paul McCrea, Dr William NOES Field, rh Mr Frank McDonagh, Siobhain Fitzpatrick, Jim McDonald, Andy Adams, Nigel Chishti, Rehman Flello, Robert McDonnell, Dr Alasdair Afriyie, Adam Chope, Mr Christopher Flint, rh Caroline McDonnell, John Aldous, Peter Clappison, Mr James Flynn, Paul McFadden, rh Mr Pat Amess, Mr David Clark, rh Greg Fovargue, Yvonne McGovern, Alison Andrew, Stuart Clarke, rh Mr Kenneth Francis, Dr Hywel McGovern, Jim Bacon, Mr Richard Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Gapes, Mike McGuire, rh Mrs Anne Baker, Norman Coffey, Dr Thérèse Gardiner, Barry McKechin, Ann Baker, Steve Collins, Damian Gilmore, Sheila McKenzie, Mr Iain Baldwin, Harriett Colvile, Oliver Glass, Pat McKinnell, Catherine Barclay, Stephen Cox, Mr Geoffrey Glindon, Mrs Mary Meacher, rh Mr Michael Barker, rh Gregory Crabb, Stephen Godsiff, Mr Roger Meale, Sir Alan Barwell, Gavin Crockart, Mike Goggins, rh Paul Mearns, Ian Bebb, Guto Crouch, Tracey Goodman, Helen Miliband, rh David Beith, rh Sir Alan Davey, rh Mr Edward Greatrex, Tom Miliband, rh Edward Bellingham, Mr Henry Davies, Glyn Green, Kate Miller, Andrew Benyon, Richard Davis, rh Mr David Greenwood, Lilian Mitchell, Austin Beresford, Sir Paul de Bois, Nick Griffith, Nia Morden, Jessica Berry, Jake Dinenage, Caroline Gwynne, Andrew Morrice, Graeme (Livingston) Bingham, Andrew Djanogly, Mr Jonathan Hain, rh Mr Peter Morris, Grahame M. Birtwistle, Gordon Dorrell, rh Mr Stephen Hamilton, Mr David (Easington) Blackman, Bob Dorries, Nadine Hamilton, Fabian Mudie, Mr George Blunt, Mr Crispin Doyle-Price, Jackie Hanson, rh Mr David Munn, Meg Boles, Nick Drax, Richard Harris, Mr Tom Murphy, rh Mr Jim Bone, Mr Peter Duncan, rh Mr Alan Havard, Mr Dai Murphy, rh Paul Bradley, Karen Duncan Smith, rh Mr Iain Healey, rh John Murray, Ian Brady, Mr Graham Dunne, Mr Philip Hendrick, Mark Nandy, Lisa Brake, rh Tom Ellis, Michael Hepburn, Mr Stephen Nash, Pamela Bray, Angie Ellison, Jane Hermon, Lady O’Donnell, Fiona Brazier, Mr Julian Ellwood, Mr Tobias Hillier, Meg Onwurah, Chi Bridgen, Andrew Elphicke, Charlie Hilling, Julie Owen, Albert Brine, Steve Eustice, George Hodgson, Mrs Sharon Perkins, Toby Brooke, Annette Evans, Graham Hoey, Kate Phillipson, Bridget Browne, Mr Jeremy Evans, Jonathan Hood, Mr Jim Pound, Stephen Bruce, Fiona Evennett, Mr David Hopkins, Kelvin Powell, Lucy Bruce, rh Sir Malcolm Fabricant, Michael Howarth, rh Mr George Qureshi, Yasmin Buckland, Mr Robert Fallon, rh Michael Hunt, Tristram Reed, Mr Jamie Burley, Mr Aidan Featherstone, Lynne Irranca-Davies, Huw Reed, Steve Burns, Conor Field, Mark James, Mrs Siân C. Reynolds, Emma Burns, rh Mr Simon Foster, rh Mr Don Jamieson, Cathy Reynolds, Jonathan Burrowes, Mr David Fox,rhDrLiam Jarvis, Dan Riordan, Mrs Linda Burstow, rh Paul Francois, rh Mr Mark Johnson, rh Alan Robertson, John Byles, Dan Freeman, George Johnson, Diana Robinson, Mr Geoffrey Cable, rh Vince Freer, Mike Jones, Graham Rotheram, Steve Cairns, Alun Fuller, Richard Jones, Helen Roy, Mr Frank Campbell, rh Sir Menzies Garnier, Sir Edward Jones, Mr Kevan Roy, Lindsay Carmichael, Neil Garnier, Mark Jones, Susan Elan Ruane, Chris Cash, Mr William Gauke, Mr David 271 Apprenticeships 12 MARCH 2013 272

George, Andrew Macleod, Mary Smith, Miss Chloe Tyrie, Mr Andrew Gibb, Mr Nick Maude, rh Mr Francis Smith, Henry Uppal, Paul Gilbert, Stephen Maynard, Paul Smith, Julian Vara, Mr Shailesh Glen, John McCartney, Jason Smith, Sir Robert Vickers, Martin Goldsmith, Zac McCartney, Karl Soubry, Anna Walker, Mr Charles Goodwill, Mr Robert McIntosh, Miss Anne Spelman, rh Mrs Caroline Walker, Mr Robin Gove, rh Michael McLoughlin, rh Mr Patrick Spencer, Mr Mark Wallace, Mr Ben Graham, Richard McPartland, Stephen Stanley, rh Sir John Ward, Mr David Grant, Mrs Helen McVey, Esther Stephenson, Andrew Watkinson, Dame Angela Gray, Mr James Menzies, Mark Stevenson, John Webb, Steve Grayling, rh Chris Mercer, Patrick Stewart, Iain Wharton, James Green, rh Damian Metcalfe, Stephen Streeter, Mr Gary Wheeler, Heather Greening, rh Justine Miller, rh Maria Stride, Mel White, Chris Griffiths, Andrew Mills, Nigel Stuart, Mr Graham Whittaker, Craig Gyimah, Mr Sam Milton, Anne Stunell, rh Andrew Whittingdale, Mr John Hague, rh Mr William Mitchell, rh Mr Andrew Sturdy, Julian Wiggin, Bill Hames, Duncan Morgan, Nicky Swales, Ian Williams, Mr Mark Hammond, rh Mr Philip Morris, Anne Marie Swayne, rh Mr Desmond Williams, Roger Hammond, Stephen Morris, David Swinson, Jo Williams, Stephen Hancock, Matthew Morris, James Swire, rh Mr Hugo Williamson, Gavin Hands, Greg Mosley, Stephen Syms, Mr Robert Wilson, Mr Rob Harper, Mr Mark Mowat, David Tapsell, rh Sir Peter Wollaston, Dr Sarah Harris, Rebecca Mulholland, Greg Teather, Sarah Wright, Jeremy Hart, Simon Mundell, rh David Thornton, Mike Wright, Simon Haselhurst, rh Sir Alan Munt, Tessa Thurso, John Yeo, Mr Tim Hayes, Mr John Murray, Sheryll Timpson, Mr Edward Heaton-Harris, Chris Murrison, Dr Andrew Tomlinson, Justin Tellers for the Noes: Hemming, John Neill, Robert Tredinnick, David Mark Hunter and Henderson, Gordon Newton, Sarah Turner, Mr Andrew Joseph Johnson Hendry, Charles Nokes, Caroline Herbert, rh Nick Norman, Jesse Question accordingly negatived. Hinds, Damian Nuttall, Mr David Hollingbery, George O’Brien, Mr Stephen Hollobone, Mr Philip Offord, Dr Matthew Business without Debate Holloway, Mr Adam Ollerenshaw, Eric Hopkins, Kris Opperman, Guy Horwood, Martin Ottaway, Richard PARTNERSHIPS (PROSECUTION) (SCOTLAND) Howarth, Sir Gerald Parish, Neil BILL [LORDS] Howell, John Patel, Priti Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Hughes, rh Simon Paterson, rh Mr Owen Orders Nos. 59(3) and 90(5), That the Bill be now read Hunt, rh Mr Jeremy Pawsey, Mark a Second time. Hurd, Mr Nick Penrose, John Jackson, Mr Stewart Percy, Andrew Question agreed to. Javid, Sajid Perry, Claire Bill accordingly read a Second time; to stand committed Jenkin, Mr Bernard Phillips, Stephen to a Public Bill Committee (Standing Order No. 63). Johnson, Gareth Pickles, rh Mr Eric Jones, Andrew Poulter, Dr Daniel Jones, rh Mr David Prisk, Mr Mark PARTNERSHIPS (PROSECUTION) (SCOTLAND) Jones, Mr Marcus Pritchard, Mark BILL [LORDS] Kawczynski, Daniel Pugh, John Ordered, Kennedy, rh Mr Charles Raab, Mr Dominic Kirby, Simon Randall, rh Mr John That the Public Bill Committee to which the Partnerships Knight, rh Mr Greg Reckless, Mark (Prosecution) (Scotland) Bill [Lords] is committed shall have leave Laing, Mrs Eleanor Redwood, rh Mr John to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.—(Anne Milton.) Lancaster, Mark Rees-Mogg, Jacob Lansley, rh Mr Andrew Reevell, Simon DELEGATED LEGISLATION Latham, Pauline Reid, Mr Alan Laws, rh Mr David Rifkind, rh Sir Malcolm Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Leadsom, Andrea Robathan, rh Mr Andrew Order No. 118(6)), Lee, Jessica Robertson, rh Hugh Leech, Mr John Rogerson, Dan RATING AND VALUATION Leigh, Mr Edward Rosindell, Andrew That the draft Local Government Finance Act 2012 (Consequential Leslie, Charlotte Rudd, Amber Amendments) Order 2013, which was laid before this House on Letwin, rh Mr Oliver Rutley, David 10 January, be approved. —(Anne Milton.) Lewis, Dr Julian Sandys, Laura Question agreed to. Liddell-Grainger, Mr Ian Scott, Mr Lee Lilley, rh Mr Peter Selous, Andrew Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Lloyd, Stephen Shapps, rh Grant Order No. 118(6)), Lopresti, Jack Shelbrooke, Alec Lord, Jonathan Shepherd, Sir Richard LEGAL SERVICES Loughton, Tim Simpson, Mr Keith That the draft Conditional Fee Agreements Order 2013, which was Luff, Peter Skidmore, Chris laid before this House on 21 January, be approved.—(Anne Milton.) 273 Business without Debate12 MARCH 2013 Business without Debate 274

The Deputy Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the IMMIGRATION Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until That the draft Immigration and Nationality (Fees) Regulations Wednesday 13 March (Standing Order No. 41A). 2013, which were laid before this House on 25 February, be approved.—(Anne Milton.) Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With the Question agreed to. leave of the House, we shall take motions 7 to 12 together. Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 118(6)), Order No. 118(6)), TAX CREDITS That the draft Tax Credits Up-rating, etc. Regulations 2013, LEGAL SERVICES which were laid before this House on 7 February, be approved.— That the draft Damages-Based Agreements Regulations 2013, (Anne Milton.) which were laid before this House on 21 January, be approved. The Deputy Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until PENSIONS Wednesday 13 March (Standing Order No. 41A). That the draft Armed Forces and Reserve Forces (Compensation Scheme) (Consequential Provisions: Primary Legislation) Order PETITIONS 2013, which was laid before this House on 14 February, be approved. Food Banks

7.17 pm LEGAL AID AND ADVICE That the draft Civil Legal Aid (Merits Criteria) (Amendment) Mr Iain McKenzie (Inverclyde) (Lab): I rise to present Regulations 2013, which were laid before this House on 4 February, a petition signed by hundreds of my constituents, who, be approved . like me, are concerned about the increasing number of That the draft Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of food banks up and down the country and about the fact Offenders Act 2012 (Amendment of Schedule 1) Order 2013, that the number of people visiting food banks has which was laid before this House on 4 February, be approved. increased dramatically since last year. I visited a food bank in my constituency, the i58 project, run by a local SOCIAL SECURITY church, and was astounded to find out that it had dealt with more than 1,000 people since last September. It That the draft Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating Order 2013, which was laid before this House on 7 February, be approved. assumed that demand for assistance would peak around Christmas, but that has not happened, and the numbers That the draft Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating (Northern Ireland) Order 2013, which was laid before this House on 7 February, have continued to escalate. It was asked to sign this be approved.—(Anne Milton.) petition on the ongoing problems facing constituents having to attend food banks to make it through the Question agreed to. week on their low incomes or benefits. The petition states: Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons Order No. 118(6)), urges the Scotland Office and Department for Work and Pensions to work together to ensure there is an accurate count of the number of people using food banks in Scotland and that the RATING AND VALUATION Government take action to ensure that no families in the UK go That the draft Non-Domestic Rating (Levy and Safety Net) hungry. Regulations 2013, which were laid before this House on 14 February, And the Petitioners remain, etc. be approved.—(Anne Milton.) Following is the full text of the petition: The Deputy Speaker’s opinion as to the decision of the [The Petition of Inverclyde Constituents, Question being challenged, the Division was deferred until Wednesday 13 March (Standing Order No. 41A). Declares that the Petitioners believe that as a result of the failings of both the Holyrood and Westminster Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): With the Governments 13 million people live below the poverty line leave of the House, we shall take motions 14 to 17 together. in Britain today; further that the reliance on food banks has dramatically increased in recent years with The Trussell Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Trust calculating that in 2011–12 food banks fed 128,687 Order No. 118(6)), people in the UK, an increase of over 100 per cent on the previous year. Excellent work is being undertaken throughout CONTRACTING OUT,WALES the country by national and local food bank providers to fill the void left by the failings of the Holyrood and That the draft Local Authorities (Contracting Out of Tax Billing, Collection and Enforcement Functions) (Amendment) Westminster Governments; however as one of the world’s (Wales) Order 2013, which was laid before this House on 6 February, wealthiest countries we believe UK Citizens should not be approved. find themselves in this position. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Scotland Office and Department for REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE Work and Pensions to work together to ensure there is an That the draft Electoral Registration (Disclosure of Electoral accurate count of the number of people using food banks Registers) Regulations 2013, which were laid before this House on in Scotland and that the Government take action to 25 February, be approved. ensure that no families in the UK go hungry. That the draft Electoral Registration (Postponement of 2013 Annual Canvass) Order 2013, which was laid before this House And the Petitioners remain, etc.] on 25 February, be approved. [P001161] 275 Business without Debate12 MARCH 2013 Business without Debate 276

7.19 pm 7.20 pm Gordon Banks (Ochil and South Perthshire) (Lab): Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/ This petition has arisen as a result of the growing Co-op): I, too, wish to present a petition on food banks number of food banks in the UK and the growing on behalf of my constituents. The signatures were collected number of people in the UK in the 21st century having in the centre of Leith, a part of my constituency where, to resort to them to feed themselves and their families. I according to the latest figures, up to 30% of the population pay tribute to the organisations that run food banks, are income deprived and below the poverty line. such as the Trussell Trust, but particularly to the Gate, Unsurprisingly, it is also where Edinburgh’s latest food which operates a food bank in Alloa, and to Activ8 and bank is being set up. I pay tribute to those in the WISH—women in sport and health—which do likewise community who are helping to set it up and deal with in Sauchie, both in my constituency, and for which I am the growing crisis of hunger that is affecting so many of running the Alloa half-marathon on Sunday. Two weeks our citizens, particularly families with children. Those ago at Prime Minister’s questions I asked the Prime setting up the food bank, like those who signed the Minister to sign the petition, but despite his agreement petition, also want the UK and Scottish Governments to look at it and two e-mails to No. 10 since, I am still to take action to ensure that no families go hungry. waiting. The petition states: More than 200 of my Ochil and South Perthshire constituents have signed the petition, which states: The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Scotland Office and Department for Work and Pensions The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons to work together to ensure there is an accurate count of the urges the Scotland Office and Department for Work and Pensions number of people using food banks in Scotland and that the to work together to ensure there is an accurate count of the Government take action to ensure that no families in the UK go number of people using food banks in Scotland and that the hungry. Government take action to ensure that no families in the UK go hungry. And the Petitioners remain, etc. And the Petitioners remain, etc. Following is the full text of the petition: Following is the full text of the petition: [The Petition of Edinburgh North and Leith Constituents, [The Petition of Ochil and South Perthshire, Declares that the Petitioners believe that as a result of Declares that the Petitioners believe that as a result of the failings of both the Holyrood and Westminster the failings of both the Holyrood and Westminster Governments 13 million people live below the poverty line Governments 13 million people live below the poverty line in Britain today; further that the reliance on food banks in Britain today; further that the reliance on food banks has dramatically increased in recent years with The Trussell has dramatically increased in recent years with The Trussell Trust calculating that in 2011–12 food banks fed 128,687 Trust calculating that in 2011–12 food banks fed 128,687 people in the UK, an increase of over 100 per cent on the people in the UK, an increase of over 100 per cent on the previous year. Excellent work is being undertaken throughout previous year. Excellent work is being undertaken throughout the country by national and local food bank providers to the country by national and local food bank providers to fill the void left by the failings of the Holyrood and fill the void left by the failings of the Holyrood and Westminster Governments; however as one of the world’s Westminster Governments; however as one of the world’s wealthiest countries we believe UK Citizens should not wealthiest countries we believe UK Citizens should not find themselves in this position. find themselves in this position. The Petitioners therefore request that the House of The Petitioners therefore request that the House of Commons urges the Scotland Office and Department for Commons urges the Scotland Office and Department for Work and Pensions to work together to ensure there is an Work and Pensions to work together to ensure there is an accurate count of the number of people using food banks accurate count of the number of people using food banks in Scotland and that the Government take action to in Scotland and that the Government take action to ensure that no families in the UK go hungry. ensure that no families in the UK go hungry. And the Petitioners remain, etc.] And the Petitioners remain, etc.] [P001163] [P001162] 277 12 MARCH 2013 Falkland Islands Referendum 278

Falkland Islands Referendum Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab): Will the hon. Gentleman also pay tribute to Colonel Tony Davies Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House and to the Falkland Islands veterans association? The —(Anne Milton.) do now adjourn. association’s Liberty Lodge in Stanley accommodates many of the veterans who return to the Falkland Islands 7.22 pm to remember some of the experiences that they went through in 1992. Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Today the Falkland islanders showed unity over their future, with a referendum Guy Opperman: I totally agree. The way in which we in which 99.8% of the votes cast were in favour of look after the Falkland Islands has got better and remaining British. The referendum asked them: better, under the previous Government and now under “Do you wish the Falkland Islands to retain their current this one. The organisation that the hon. Gentleman political status as an Overseas Territory of the United Kingdom?” mentions does a great job. Only three people voted against. Argentina has now It is right to make it clear that the United Kingdom been beaten, I would suggest, both on the battlefield wants nothing more than peace, trade and prosperity and at the ballot box. It is time for Argentina to accept with Argentina and the other south American countries. that the islanders have a right to be there. They do not There are so many problems in this world, and it is deserve to be bullied, threatened or intimidated by a surely wrong that we are in any way falling out over close neighbour. these islands. While we in this House stand four-square behind the residents of the Falkland Islands and their Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con): My hon. Friend overwhelming vote in favour of self-determination, we makes a powerful point about how the Argentines should must try to reach out to the Argentine and other south behave. Does he agree that now is the time for the United American peoples and stress that this is a matter entirely Nations also to accept the will of the Falkland Islanders? for the islanders. Guy Opperman: I entirely endorse my hon. Friend’s Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con): I welcome the point. This process will definitely be watched with great overwhelming majority vote in favour of the Falklands interest by the United Nations when self-determination, remaining a British overseas territory. I suggest to my which is surely what a referendum is all about, is being hon. Friend that that vote was in a way a reaffirmation considered. of our position in Antarctica, and that it further underlines the importance and the peaceful nature of our activities Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I congratulate the in there. hon. Gentleman on bringing this matter before the House. The referendum was clear: the Falkland islanders want to stay British. Does he feel that that message should be Guy Opperman: Indeed, the 1959 Antarctic treaty sent out from this House this evening to the Argentines— froze all sovereignty claims there. I pay tribute to my that the Falklands are British today, they will be British hon. Friend, whose private Member’s Bill, the Antarctic in 20 years’ time and they will be British for ever, as long Bill, has passed through the House and is now law. as the people there want them to be? Many Argentines continue to work in the United Kingdom, and many British people work in Argentina. Guy Opperman: I entirely endorse that point. They are able to get along in a positive way. Perhaps the wisest words spoken in the past two weeks were those of It is also right to remember those who passed away one of the international electoral observers, who said: during the conflict 31 years ago, when 255 British troops died, 650 Argentinean troops passed away and “The Falkland Islanders are citizens and they have the right to three female islanders were also killed. express themselves.” Those were the words not of a local, but of Senor Jaime Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) Trobo, the Uruguayan electoral observer. (Con): Will my hon. Friend pay tribute to those members I suggest that now is a good time to evaluate from of the armed forces who gave their lives, especially those where the right to self-determination originates. The members of 3 Commando Brigade, which is based in principle is set out unequivocally in article 1.2 of the my constituency and includes Royal Marines and the charter of the United Nations, which states that one of Royal Navy? They went out to the south Atlantic and the purposes of the United Nations is did a deeply courageous job, and they should always be “To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect credited for all their hard work. for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples”.

Guy Opperman: I entirely endorse that point. Kate Hoey (Vauxhall) (Lab): I congratulate the hon. Able Seaman Derek Armstrong, from the town of Gentleman on securing a debate on such an important Prudhoe in my constituency, died when HMS Ardent subject on such an important day for the Falkland was sunk on 22 May 1982. He was only 22 years of age. islanders. Does he also think that this is a good time for His memory is still celebrated by the fact that the most the United States of America to show that it understands important award of the year given by his school, Prudhoe democracy, and for President Obama to come out in community high school, is the Derek Armstrong memorial support of the rights of the Falklanders, rather than award, which is presented each year to the best sportsperson. sitting on the fence as he seems to have been doing? All troops, on all sides, should be remembered. We should pay particular tribute to those who are serving there Guy Opperman: While we would all support President and giving up their time to look after the Falkland Obama, he seems to be acquiring some splinters by sitting Islands on an ongoing basis. on the fence for so long. The United States’ position is 279 Falkland Islands Referendum12 MARCH 2013 Falkland Islands Referendum 280

[Guy Opperman] sovereignty of those territories, so that businesses, including those in the fishing waters around the islands and those surely hypocritical, given that it uses and benefits from conducting oil exploration, can operate honestly for the bases in British overseas territories such as Cyprus, foreseeable future in an atmosphere of security and Diego Garcia, Ascension and Gibraltar when it suits good will? them. Because it does not use the Falkland Islands for those purposes, however, it is not so supportive of, or Guy Opperman: The Foreign Secretary made the enthusiastic about, our claims and those of the Falkland same point last year, when he wrote: islanders. “There are many areas on which we”— the two countries— Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con): I also congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this timely and important “can co-operate: on joint management of fish stocks, on hydrocarbon exploration and on strengthening air and sea links between the debate. I agree that the United States is being hypocritical Falklands and South America. We used to do this in the 1990s in its approach to recognising the Falkland Islands’ and ought to be able to do it again.” sovereignty. However, we also need to pay tribute to I am sure that the Falkland Islands Government want Washington for recently refusing to agree to any more more trade links and a greater expansion of trade with International Monetary Fund or World Bank loans to their nearest neighbour. Buenos Aires—as have the British Government—because of the way in which Argentina has massively defaulted on previous loans. Sir Gerald Howarth (Aldershot) (Con): I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. There could be Guy Opperman: The status of the World Bank loans no more emphatic expression of the will of the Falkland and the international aid that was or was not going to Islands people than they have enunciated in the last Argentina over the last few years is indeed a matter of 24 hours, and there can therefore be no doubt in the great regret and concern. Argentine Government of the islanders’ determination to remain British. Does my hon. Friend agree, however, that we should now be seeking to appeal to the Mr Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): Is not the reasonable Argentines—many of whom have long-standing Argentine President playing a cruel trick on her electorate connections with this country, not least with the principality by trying to divert attention from her own failings? of Wales—and forging an alliance with them over the There is not a chance in hell that the Falkland Islands heads of the ridiculous Government of Argentina? will return to Argentina during her presidency, or any other presidency. Guy Opperman: My hon. Friend makes his point Guy Opperman: That was the problem in 1982, was it most eloquently. I could not possibly improve on it. I not? A President struggling to maintain domestic order will point out, however, that barely two weeks ago, was trying to divert attention from the realities of before the referendum, Argentina’s Foreign Minister problems at home by attracting it to matters abroad. was saying that this was a One is nervous about the potential for that to happen “British attempt to manipulate the Question of the Malvinas again. Islands through a vote by the population implanted by the United Kingdom”. Oliver Colvile: Is my hon. Friend aware that Ewen It is ridiculous to suggest that these people, some of Southby-Tailyour, who was very much a member of whom have been there for nine generations, have been 3 Commando Brigade, did all the mapping around the “implanted”. They are men and women who were born Falklands in 1978, and that it could then be used by the on the Falklands and have lived there for generations, troops when we went in? It was a very good job that he had children, and made their lives together. Like the ended up doing. populations of most countries in Latin America, including Argentina, the Falklands population has grown through Guy Opperman: Preparation is essential to all future a flow of migration. The Falkland Islands constitutes a military endeavour, as my hon. Friend rightly makes nation of immigrants who have developed a distinctive clear. culture and identity. For Argentina to deny them the right to self-determination is for it to question the Under United Nations resolution 2065, which is Argentines’ own claim to the rights that they take so linked with UN resolution 1514, it is crucial that the seriously. interests of the population of the Falkland Islands are observed. That has to be the most important consideration. Resolution 1514 states: Michael Ellis (Northampton North) (Con): Is it not the case that Argentina, sadly, does not have a particularly “All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of happy history on respecting the freedoms of its own that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development…All people and democracy there? Will my hon. Friend join armed action or repressive measures of all kinds directed against me in criticising Argentina for its actions against cruise dependent peoples shall cease...and the integrity of their national lines and the predilection it appears to have developed territory shall be respected.” in recent months for obstructing the free passage of civilian passenger vessels that happen to have any business Andrea Leadsom (South Northamptonshire) (Con): or trade with the Falkland Islands? My hon. Friend is making an extremely powerful speech about a very important subject. Does he agree that it is Guy Opperman: The reality is that a blockade of vital to the interests of the economic development of protectionism and intimidation is taking place around the Falkland Islands for there to be certainty about the the Falkland Islands. We have seen actions ranging from 281 Falkland Islands Referendum12 MARCH 2013 Falkland Islands Referendum 282 preventing the use of the Falkland Islands flag and overseas territory; it is not up to Great Britain to give disrupting shipping, as my hon. Friend made clear, to the Falklands away; and it is the Falklands islanders’ ongoing organisational protectionism. Do we really, in own right to decide where their sovereignty lies. 2013, have large countries blocking free trade in that way? Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con): My hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that it is the right of the people Henry Smith: Does my hon. Friend also agree that it of the Falklands to determine their own destiny, but is anathema that Argentina is a member of the G20? does he agree that other countries around the world should now accept that the decision that has been made Guy Opperman: Given the state of Argentina’s finances is the freely chosen wish of the people of those islands? and the insanity of its current financial situation, with I am talking about not just the United States of America, inflation in excess of 25%, Argentina is hardly sending but all those countries that have sat on the fence and out any great lessons of financial propriety. have failed to support the Falklanders’ desires to determine their own future. Mark Menzies (Fylde) (Con): Will my hon. Friend give way? Guy Opperman: I am happy to pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who has ploughed a strong but lonely furrow as Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle): Order. May the champion of the British overseas territories, all of I just suggest that we have to be careful, as this debate is which pay due credit to his work. about the referendum and we are being dragged over It is right that we are investing in the islands, moving other different subjects? I know that Mr Opperman positively forward and attempting to ensure that, building wants to keep to the subject of the debate, so I ask hon. on the referendum, there is a celebration of the culture Members not to distract him—that would be helpful. of the Falkland Islands and promotion of the fantastic opportunities there. The south American countries are Guy Opperman: Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. our friends, as we would like Argentina to be.

Mark Menzies: My hon. Friend is making a powerful Sir Gerald Howarth: In the year of the 31st anniversary point in this debate. The people of the Falkland Islands of the campaign, surely we should recall the 255 men of have spoken and we must respect that. They should not Her Majesty’s armed forces who gave their lives for the feel intimidated, but if they do feel intimidated, the security of the people of the Falkland Islands, including RAF, flying Typhoon aircraft built in west Lancashire, so many members of the Parachute Regiment based in is more than capable of looking after their security. my constituency of Aldershot.

Guy Opperman: Those aircraft will doubtless be backed Guy Opperman: We all remember those who passed up by some Sea King helicopters, a garrison of 1,200 away on all sides. For example, the Argentine troops soldiers, HMS Clyde and many other items under the were gentlemen led by lambs. They were chronically water, not least a few submarines. under-equipped and very poorly trained for the job their country asked them to do. Let me deal with Europe and its role in determining this matter. I did not believe that the Lisbon treaty was The people have spoken and the decision is now made. good for much, but I was interested to read that it was Gone are the days when colonial possessions could be good in that the European Union recognised the Falkland disposed of by giving away power and territory regardless Islands as a “full associated territory”, like our other of the view of inhabitants. Let us instead celebrate the associated overseas territories, within part 4 of the treaty unique history and culture of a small island people who on the functioning of the European Union. Apparently choose to remain British—and so they shall. That position the Argentines are upset with something from Europe—I and their choice in the matter are non-negotiable. think they can join a large club, but I knew that the Lisbon treaty was good for something. 7.40 pm The Argentines continue to dispute this matter on an ongoing basis, but I suggest that they must now take The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office into account the interests and desires of the Falkland (Mr Hugo Swire): This has been a timely and useful Islands’ inhabitants. What has happened is applicable debate and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member not only to the Falkland Islands, as it has due relevance for Hexham (Guy Opperman) on obtaining it and on to the other British overseas territories, including the his considered opening speech. I also thank hon. Members 293,000 people who reside on a permanent basis in the on both sides of the House for their contributions. 14 British overseas territories, all of whom will take The Falkland Islanders enjoy the support and friendship great heart from what we have seen in the Falkland of Members from across the political divide in the Islands today. British House of Commons. They will receive that Relations with Argentina were not always so bad. In message loud and clear as we debate this momentous 1995, the Argentine and British Governments issued a day for the people of the Falkland Islands. joint statement when a deal was signed that identified a The referendum on the future of the Falkland Islands discrete area for hydrocarbon and other exploration, has been an event of momentous significance for that and work together. That agreement was scrapped in small community in the south Atlantic. An overwhelming 2007 by the Argentine Government, which was a great majority, 99.8% of those voting, have chosen to retain shame. However, the facts are these: the inhabitants of the islands’ status as a British overseas territory, with an the Falklands overwhelmingly want to remain a British astonishingly high turnout—at which we can only look 283 Falkland Islands Referendum12 MARCH 2013 Falkland Islands Referendum 284

[Mr Hugo Swire] the Minister will give due praise to our armed forces for what they did, and to our armed forces serving there with jealousy, envy, amazement and, when it comes to now. our elections, incredulity—of 92%. Just three no votes were cast. Mr Swire: As a former Armed Forces Minister, the More than 50 international journalists have descended hon. Gentleman is right to make that point, which was on Stanley. Those hon. Members who have visited Stanley, also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot sometimes more than once, will know what pressure (Sir Gerald Howarth). This is a time to remember all that has put on that place. They have been joined by those who lost their life in the conflict, but particularly academics, electoral experts and a formal observer mission the British lives lost in re-securing freedom for the made up of members from Latin America, the United islanders. States, Canada and New Zealand, who have confirmed It would be wrong not to acknowledge that the main that the poll was factor that led the Falkland Islanders to hold the referendum “free and fair, reflecting the democratic will of the voters of the was the increasingly antagonistic behaviour of the Falkland Islands.” Government of Argentina over recent months and years. In many ways President Kirchner herself inspired the Mr Kevan Jones: Does the Minister agree that that is referendum. Her aggressive policies motivated the Falkland a very important point? The Falkland Islanders can Islanders to stand up so proudly for who they are and now argue not only that the election was free and fair what they want. but that the result shows the will of the people. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis), I deeply regret the direction of Mr Swire: My hon. Friend—I am sorry, Mr Deputy Argentina’s policy. From harassing the Falklands fishing Speaker, I should say the hon. Gentleman, although he fleet, to threatening air links with the islands and issuing is also my friend—has visited the Falklands and what hostile letters to companies operating on the Falklands, he says is absolutely the case. The world was watching, it seems that the Argentine Government believe that the the Falkland Islanders spoke and the world should Falkland Islanders can be bullied into submission, and therefore react accordingly. These were free and fair that the British Government will eventually decide to elections, observed by the international community, negotiate away their rights. That is never going to and the result is stronger because of that. happen. Not for the first time, the Falkland Islanders find themselves the focus of intense political and media Mr Kevan Jones: Does the Minister agree that when attention. Most will now understandably want life to relatives of Argentines killed in the Falklands visit the return to normal, but they can do so secure in the islands, they receive a very warm and respectful welcome knowledge that they have shown the world in no uncertain from the people of the islands? terms what political status they want for their home. The result of course reflected what the Falkland Islanders Mr Swire: Indeed. It is my understanding that more have always asserted: their overwhelming wish is to than 20 nationalities took part in the referendum, including maintain the islands’ status as a British overseas territory. Argentines. That speaks volumes. The referendum was not some crude public relations stunt, as the Argentine Government sought to portray Michael Ellis: Does my hon. Friend agree that the it. The islanders organised it not to indulge themselves behaviour of Argentina that he has just particularised in establishing the obvious, but to send the clearest shows the arrogant colonial power that the Argentines possible message to those who either do not know or do attribute to others? not care about what future they want. Today’s absolutely decisive result undoubtedly achieved that and once Mr Swire: My hon. Friend makes his point extremely again I congratulate the Falkland Islands people on well. Even better is the comment of the Argentine their definitive act of self-determination. columnist Andrés Oppenheimer, who wrote recently: The British Government backed the referendum from “Argentina’s latest offensive against the islanders may go down the outset. Support for the Falkland Islanders is absolute, in history as a text-book example of diplomatic incompetence.” and the Prime Minister made that very clear in his The clarity with which the Falkland Islanders have statement earlier today welcoming the result. The voiced their wishes compels Argentina to cease its Government would have respected whatever result emerged destructive and counter-productive behaviour. It is simply from Stanley but, as is reinforced by the interventions not credible in the 21st century to pretend that the this evening, we are delighted by the overwhelming people living on the Falklands can be ignored, or that support for a continuing partnership with the United they do not exist, as Hector Timerman, the Argentine Kingdom, based on our shared values and mutual Foreign Minister, outrageously claimed on his recent respect. For as long as the people of the Falklands wish trip to London. So I say to the Argentine Government, their homeland to remain an overseas territory of the “Listen to what the islanders have said and put an end United Kingdom, we will stand by them. to your campaign of intimidation and bullying.” My hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab): Like everybody else in Rosindell), who is a stalwart champion of many things, the House tonight, I am delighted with the result. It is but particularly of the British overseas territories, was not unexpected, but it sends a clear message. But for the right. As well as sending the clearest possible message sacrifices of our armed forces, the referendum could to Argentina, the result of the referendum sends a not have been held. Even today, many individuals still message to the rest of the world. Neither the British suffer from their physical and mental injuries. I am sure Government nor the Falkland Islands Government wish 285 Falkland Islands Referendum12 MARCH 2013 Falkland Islands Referendum 286 to draw other countries into this issue. We respect those Some people will ask whether this referendum will countries who express no opinion or who have honest change anything. I believe that it will. No longer will disagreements with us on the matter, but what we cannot anyone be able to question whether or not the islanders accept is other countries being misled into accepting a want the Falklands to remain a British territory, and no distorted picture of the Falklands issue. longer will Argentina be able to distort the facts of the The Argentine Government have claimed that the matter, misrepresenting and ignoring what the islanders islanders do not exist, that the British military is holding want. Politicians from the islands will be travelling far them hostage as part of a wider policy to militarise the and wide in the coming weeks to raise awareness of the entire south Atlantic, and that they would be perfectly result and to dispel myths about their home, and the happy living under Argentine rule. None of these things British Government will be offering them every support is true. The islanders have known this all along, but the and assistance in doing so. But the biggest change of all referendum has taken this message to a worldwide would be for the Argentine Government to recognise audience and has put the question of their wishes that their bullying tactics have failed— beyond any possible doubt. So we urge all countries who uphold democracy and political rights to respect 7.52 pm the wishes of the islanders and to accept the referendum House adjourned without Question put (Standing Order as a clear and valid expression of their views. No. 9(7)).

1WH 12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 2WH

are used by the whole community. It is currently used by Westminster Hall the City of Sheffield athletic club which provides training, coaching and competition in athletics events, as well as Tuesday 12 March 2013 in cross-country and road-running events, and offers coaching for children aged from eight years old. Jessica Ennis is a member of the City of Sheffield [MR EDWARD LEIGH in the Chair] athletic club. She has said that the venue held “great memories”, as it was where she started her athletic Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) career. She has also said of the stadium closure: Motion made, and Question proposed, That the sitting “It’s a huge shame. To see it demolished would be a massive, be now adjourned.—(Mr Syms.) massive disappointment…We’ve achieved so much as a country in the London Olympics, so to lose some great facilities sends out the wrong message, really.” 9.30 am Her trainer, Toni Minichiello, has worried about the Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab): It is a pleasure effect of the closure on the children of Sheffield who are to be opening this debate with you in the Chair, Mr Leigh. engaged in athletics, It means a great deal to those of us from Sheffield to “because when Jess started she had the Don Valley stadium have secured the debate; most of us are here and all plan where, yes, we could train outdoors but there was also a smaller to speak. My right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, indoor area which we could use that made us fairly weatherproof”. Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) regrets that He also made the point that the closure reflects he cannot join us, due to a commitment away from “a series of systemic errors in government policy that are affecting Westminster, and I am sorry that the Deputy Prime a whole generation of kids who want to be involved in sport. It’s Minister, the right hon. Member for Sheffield, Hallam about neglecting basic joined-up thinking on health, education (Mr Clegg), is not present either, although I shall be and sport...It is about failing to learn lessons from past mistakes, turning to his contribution to the debate in due course. lessons we’ve had years to get right.” The Olympic and Paralympic games were clearly Perhaps more surprising among those expressing regret a great moment for Britain, showing the best of our about the closure of the Don Valley stadium was the sporting talent, sportsmanship, hospitality and world-class Sports Minister, the Minister of State, Department sporting facilities. They were, however, meant to be for Culture, Media and Sport, the right hon. Member more than only a moment; they were supposed to for Faversham and Mid Kent (Hugh Robertson); I am provide a legacy for sport, with lasting opportunities for sorry that he has been unable to join us for today’s our people, our young people in particular. debate. In an interview on Radio 4’s “You and Yours” In Sheffield, we know all about the benefits of sport. programme on 1 March, he said: We were the country’s first city of sport and are home to “I don’t want to see any facilities close”, some genuinely world-class facilities, not only the Don in particular one as “emblematic” as Don Valley. In full, Valley stadium, located in the constituency of my hon. he said: Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), “I very, very much hope that the local council, when they but also the Sheffield Arena, the Ponds Forge international consider this, this afternoon, realise that London 2012 has created swimming and diving complex and some great community a unique opportunity for sport in this county, and I know it’s sports facilities. Given their reputations, we have secured tough, and I know it’s difficult, and I know there are no easy more investment over the years, with the establishment answers, but it would be a huge, huge shame—it’s such an of the English Institute of Sport and iceSheffield. Such emblematic facility that means so much to so many local people…to investment has delivered a huge return. For example, we close at such a time.” have beaten the trend nationally in increasing swimming We need to be clear, however, that the responsibility participation and in engagement in other sports. The for the closure lies not with the city council but with the facilities at Don Valley have inspired a generation of Government, who have given it no alternative. The young people, of whom Jessica Ennis is obviously the stadium costs the council £700,000 a year to run. It is a most successful and best known. national asset and, as the Sports Minister said, “ an The investment in sport has also demonstrated economic emblematic facility”, but its costs are borne by one benefits. In the first 12 years of the new facilities, council. When the council is being forced to take £1.6 million sporting events brought in almost 640,000 visitors out of libraries and £3.5 million out of early years, there to the city and more than £46 million, creating about are no easy options. Over the past two years Sheffield 990 full-time jobs. For every reason, therefore, it is city council has been forced to make £140 million of ironic and deeply disappointing that barely six months cuts due to Government policy, with a further £50 million after the Olympics and Paralympics, the city council has in both this year and next. been put in the position of having no alternative but to The cuts are unfairly targeted at cities such as Sheffield. close Don Valley stadium. That is why the Bishops of Sheffield and of Hallam, I am sure that my hon. Friend the Member for together with other faith leaders and community and Sheffield South East will talk more about Don Valley, voluntary sector leaders, have launched the campaign but it is worth noting that it was the first completely for “A Fair Deal for Sheffield”. In 2011-12 alone, Sheffield new national sporting venue built outdoors in Great council’s revenue spending power reduced by £47.5 million Britain since Wembley in the early 1920s. It is the or 8.15%, while Richmond upon Thames, which by any second largest athletics stadium in the UK, after the measure is a much wealthier part of the country, had a Olympic stadium, with a seating capacity of 25,000. As cut of a mere £1 million or 0.61%. If the Sports Minister well as hosting international athletics meetings, it is were present, he might find it hard to appreciate the home to a number of sporting clubs and facilities that impact that that level of cuts can have. His constituency 3WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 4WH

[Paul Blomfield] will speak about, and on school sport, on which my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg covers parts of the boroughs of Swale and Maidstone. Munn) will want to make a contribution. There will Their cuts per person between 2010-11 and 2014-15 are also be an impact on Activity Sheffield, the Youth £73 and £51, respectively, far less than the £200 cut per Service and the voluntary and community sector, all of person imposed on Sheffield council. which engage the young and the old in the sports Cuts of that severity mean that Sheffield city council activities that are so important to their well-being. Yet and many other local authorities are no longer in a when councils in our big cities are facing a struggle to position to keep facilities such as Don Valley open. maintain services, it is increasingly difficult for them to Notwithstanding the comments I quoted earlier, even support and sustain facilities such as Don Valley. We the Sports Minister had to acknowledge that when he need a national strategic plan for sports facilities and was asked on “You and Yours”: for the Government to work with councils to keep “There is a direct causal link, isn’t there, it can’t be avoided, facilities such as Don Valley open and genuinely to help between the almost 30% cuts in local authority support and to deliver an Olympic legacy. The Government must closing this stadium?” play a role with the councils to ensure that we have He replied: stadiums where events can inspire the next generation. “Yes, there is a direct causal link, you’re entirely right”. The Government have given the council no alternative Nevertheless, he went on to blame the council for failing to the existing use of Don Valley, but the council is to maintain the stadium properly and indicated that looking at alternatives to provide a sporting legacy. It that was one of the reasons for its closure: has made a commitment to the refurbishment of the “The Don Valley stadium hasn’t suddenly declined in the last nearby Woodbourn Road athletics track to provide six months. This is presumably an ageing process that has been good-quality outdoor facilities in partnership with local going on for most of the past 20 years because successive councils athletics clubs at a much lower cost. It invited my haven’t invested money in it on a yearly basis that keeps it going predecessor, Richard Caborn, who is also one of the and keeps it to a stage where it doesn’t suddenly require a huge Sports Minister’s predecessors, to look at alternatives bill at the end of the road, and this probably points to a lack of investment over a prolonged period.” for the site. He has been in discussion with the two universities, Sheffield college, Sheffield Teaching Hospitals I take strong exception to that further attempt to shift NHS Foundation Trust, Sheffield city region local enterprise the blame, personally and on behalf of the city council. partnership, the Baker Dearing Trust and Sport England I was chair of Sheffield City Trust for the 11 years up to explore the creation of a new advanced sports and to 2008. The trust is the charity that runs Don Valley well-being park to provide comprehensive delivery of and our other major facilities on behalf of the council the Olympic legacy through a facility providing rugby, through our operating subsidiary, Sheffield International basketball and gymnastics, by adding an indoor straight Venues. As a trust and a city, we maintained Don Valley at Woodbourn road to the facilities that the council is to the highest standards. There is absolutely no lack of planning, and by linking to a medical devices advanced investment, and there has been no decline over 20 years. manufacturing research centre and a life sciences university I have the capital and maintenance budgets for the last technical college. This morning, at a press conference at five years, which show that £1.6 million was invested in the English Institute of Sport, he shared that proposal keeping it as a top international stadium. There is a publicly. It has the backing of the city region local capital requirement in forward costs, not because of enterprise partnership and the other partners I mentioned under-investment, but simply because it is sensible to as a project deserving consideration. Indeed, it also has anticipate future need. the backing of Lord Coe. It was not just the Sports Minister who weighed into I hope that the Minister will, on behalf of the Sports the debate; the Deputy Prime also did so, calling on the Minister, agree to meet those involved in the project to council to keep the stadium open. It is perhaps reassuring discuss how the Government can, instead of crying to know that the Liberal Democrats are consistent in a crocodile tears, offer practical support to an initiative perverse sort of way. They are now against closing it, that might provide an Olympic legacy for our city. but they were opposed to opening it in the first place. The Deputy Prime Minister’s arithmetic does not stack up. He argued that one-off closure costs could be offset 9.44 am against running costs simply to delay the closure, leaving Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): It is a no money to deal with it when it happened a few months pleasure, Mr Leigh, to serve under your chairmanship. I down the line. congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield The Deputy Prime Minister has form on these Central (Paul Blomfield) on securing this important issues. Less than two weeks ago, the city council’s chief debate. I am pleased to see my fellow Sheffield MPs, my executive wrote to correct him on “inaccuracies and hon. Friends the Members for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg misrepresentations” in his comments when opposing Munn) and for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela cuts in council services. The Deputy Prime Minister Smith). My right hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield, cannot have it both ways. He supported and implemented Brightside and Hillsborough (Mr Blunkett) would have massive and disproportionate cuts on Sheffield council wanted to be here because he has a long-standing and then stood outside local libraries in his constituency interest in the World student games and the legacy of collecting signatures opposing their closure. The same sporting facilities in the city. The Sheffield approach is applies to Don Valley. united, with perhaps the one exception that my hon. The impact on Sheffield sport goes well beyond the Friend the Member for Sheffield Central mentioned. stadium. There will be an impact on community sports I have apologised to you, Mr Leigh, because I must facilities, which I am sure that my hon. Friend the leave early, but I did not have a chance to apologise to Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith) the Minister in advance. I have a plane to catch, and the 5WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 6WH timetable is too tight to allow me to stay to the end of the proper decision for the football club to take, but it the debate, but I will read with interest the Minister’s shows that we did not simply dismiss the possibilities commitment of support at the end of the debate. for other uses at some stage in the future. It simply was I was at the opening of the world student games in not going to happen, and all the issues around the 1991 when the Don Valley stadium had its finest among future of the athletics stadium in Manchester, and in many fine moments. I was leader of the council and relation to the Olympic stadium in London, showed proud to welcome more than 6,000 young people from that that is not an easy way forward. However, we have all over the world to our city to see the magnificent had Sheffield Eagles play there and Rotherham United sporting facilities that we had built and which are still a for a period of time, which helped keep the club going, benefit to the people of Sheffield today. As my hon. so the stadium has had other uses over the years. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central said, it is not The reality is that it costs £700,000 a year to maintain just the Don Valley stadium. The Arena is used regularly the stadium, which still provides superb training facilities and attracts events from all around the world, bringing and a base for many community activities, but no in an audience from the wider region. Ponds Forge longer gets major national or international events. At a international sports centre is visited by more than 1 time of real funding cuts for the local council in Sheffield, million people a year and there are the Hillsborough can we continue to afford a national and international leisure centre and the Graves tennis and leisure facility venue, when national and international events do not in Heeley. The Lyceum theatre in the city centre was come there? That is a major question. We have to say to also magnificently restored as part of the cultural events both the Government and the national sporting bodies for the games. Some £147 million was spent not just on that if they want a national stadium to hold national a one-off occasion, but for the people of Sheffield to and international events, there has to be national support enjoy, which they have done for the last 22 years. They for it. Clearly, there is no sign or evidence that that is the have done so as spectators and participants, and just by case and that the Government want to come forward looking at the stadium, because its architecture is with assistance. magnificent. Let us make this clear: unlike Manchester and the Don Valley was part of the city’s regeneration, and Commonwealth games, for which the Labour Government we must remember where we were at in the late 1980s at the time provided an awful lot of support, Sheffield when we thought about building sporting facilities for funded the world student games itself. All the costs have the event. Sheffield city had gone through a horrendous been borne by the people of Sheffield. Good facilities time and had lost 40,000 steel engineering jobs in the have been provided for our people, as well as national Don valley alone, and that had a cataclysmic effect on facilities, so we are truly a national and international the city, its industrial structure and its social life. Doing sporting city. The £147 million was paid by the people something new and showing that new things could be of Sheffield. The only bit of Government support that built on the rubble of the old steel works was extremely we got—I gave him credit at the time, and have done important in changing the city’s psychology and thinking since—was from the then Minister, David Trippier, who about moving forward rather than reflecting on what gave an urban development grant to help renovate the had gone before in our proud history and heritage in flats that formed the basis of the student village. Those steel engineering, although that is still alive with major flats are still in use today, but that is the situation that companies and organisations such as the advanced we face. manufacturing research centre keeping us at the forefront I will make a passing reference to the situation of the of new technology. Don Valley stadium is about not Liberal Democrats, which is even more convoluted than just sporting events, but physical and psychological my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central gave regeneration. them credit for. They voted in favour of the games to Don Valley has seen many great athletic events. It has begin with. When the facilities, including the Don Valley seen world champions compete, and it has been home stadium, were half built, they changed their mind and to Jessica Ennis, a local Sheffield girl. I was fortunate to voted against them—what they were going to do with be at the Olympics on the first day of her competition the half-built stadium I am not quite sure. They have and saw what she had achieved, which was great. It was since voted twice to remortgage the facilities and use the emotional, and when she came to thank the people of money on the remortgage for other things, and then Sheffield she made it clear that she had not had to go blamed the cost of the games for £650 million of debt, abroad to access top-quality training facilities because which is nonsense. The games never had £650 million of they were available in Sheffield, and that she was proud debt—that includes a roll-up of interest and the two to have used those facilities. We understand that, and I remortgages used for other purposes, not even for the feel a personal attachment to the Don Valley stadium facilities themselves. The Liberal Democrats were then for a variety of reasons. in favour of Government cuts, which is forcing the Some people ask why we did not think in advance council into its current financial position, and then they about whether the stadium would ultimately have sufficient were in favour of keeping the stadium open, without use to justify its existence. At the time and before it was saying what else they would cut instead. That is a pretty built, we talked to Sheffield football clubs about the consistent position—for the Liberal Democrats—to be potential for them to move into it afterwards. That is in over a period of years. recorded in minutes that are now in the Sheffield archives. That is the current situation for the council. The facts Sheffield Wednesday said from the beginning that it was are clear: more than £200 million of cuts need to be not interested, but we talked to directors of Sheffield made. There will be library closures and cuts to advice United, who expressed an initial interest, but eventually centres and early years provision. We are on alternate decided that it was not for them to continue and they weekly collections for our refuse. I am sure that the wanted to redevelop Bramall Lane. That was entirely Minister will tell us how awful that is—at least reflecting 7WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 8WH

[Mr Clive Betts] Central (Paul Blomfield) on securing the debate and on outlining so clearly some of the issues relating to sports the views of the Secretary of State on matters so dear to facilities in Sheffield. I also pay tribute to my hon. his heart. However, the council has to do those things to Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts). balance its books. Don Valley stadium is in his constituency, as he said, We all have our examples; I like the one about Windsor. and more than any of us, he understands the issues There have been cuts of £200 a head for the people of relating to the role played by the facilities in Sheffield in Sheffield, but £40 a head for the people of Windsor. I regenerating the city and in particular, the lower Don know that historically, Windsor has had less grant, but valley, as well as what we need to see going forward. it has also had fewer needs and more resources, which is I want to direct most of my contribution to two why northern cities are getting bigger cuts—they have specific areas of sporting provision in Sheffield: local more grant to cut. Why? Historically, they have had leisure facilities and sporting provisions in schools, both greater needs. They still have greater needs and fewer of which are key elements of sports provision not only resources, but they are still being penalised. Given the in the city but across the country, especially for young council’s position, it is very difficult to see how we can people. Unfortunately, both are under attack, because justify—despite the stadium’s history, the attachment of the self-defeating scale of the austerity being implemented that I feel to it, and all the good things that it has done by the coalition Government. However, before I venture for Sheffield—keeping the Don Valley stadium. Of course, into discussing those areas, I would like to briefly the rest of the world student games legacy will be reiterate some points made by my Sheffield colleagues. there—the Lyceum theatre, the Arena, Ponds Forge, Hillsborough leisure centre, Graves tennis and leisure In my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield South centre—for the future benefit of the people of Sheffield East, we have, as he said, a former leader of Sheffield and the surrounding area, and for people nationally. city council. Although he would not say so himself, more than anyone else, he and Councillor Peter Price, It is important that we do not simply stand still. We who was deputy leader of the council at the time, are can have our disagreements with the Minister about responsible not only for making Sheffield the country’s Government funding, and we will no doubt continue to. first city of sport, but for the construction of the We can all hold our heads in our hands and say, “Woe is original three facilities—Ponds Forge, Don Valley stadium me. We can’t do much about it”. However, the fact that and Sheffield Arena. As my hon. Friend mentioned, Sheffield has a can-do attitude is shown by Richard there were also other facilities, such as Hillsborough Caborn, the former sports Minister, who still is very leisure centre. All were built for the world student games much my friend, and who is leading a group of people in 1991. with the support of the council, the local enterprise partnership and the two universities, to look at bold Whatever people’s opinions of the staging of those and imaginative potential regeneration, involving rugby games—I have always been consistent in supporting and other sports, the college, and a link-up with universities them, the investment that they brought with them and on sports medicine. With those sorts of things, we can what they have achieved—I want to pay tribute to both really look to the future. It is not merely about combining my hon. Friend and Councillor Peter Price for the sports, medicine and education together, but about that foresight and leadership that they showed, not only in acting as another powerful vehicle for regeneration of taking the city of Sheffield through some very difficult the area. times, but in developing a new future for it as a major Work still needs to be done in this area, which is sporting city. Anyone who remembers the lower Don between the city centre and the much improved area valley at it was when the steelworks had gone can only around Meadowhall. There are great opportunities, with agree that it was a major achievement to put in place possibilities around the canal, where British Waterways Don Valley stadium and all the other infrastructure has ideas that it was going to go ahead with before the that has developed on a major scale around it. In later recession in 2008. I pay tribute in passing to David years, and thanks to the investment put in place by the Slater, a local businessman, who has been really active Labour Government, Sheffield added the English Institute and keen, and who wants to see the area regenerated. of Sport and iceSheffield to its portfolio. Of course, The ending of Don Valley stadium will offer the opportunity iceSheffield and the EIS are in effect next door to Don to have that space. It is important that we use it Valley. We now have an impressive array of facilities in constructively and keep the links with sport. We probably the city. Because of that, as my hon. Friend the Member cannot do that without Government help. for Sheffield South East said, we have managed to stage national and international events, from grand prix I know that the Minister cannot give a commitment athletics—Kelly Holmes made her last ever appearance this morning, but he should look at the regional growth at the Don Valley stadium; I was there on the day—to fund and other potential sources, and recognise that world swimming events. The national junior swimming this is a real opportunity for the council, with the championships were held at Ponds Forge only the weekend Government, to take the area forward. We can say, before last. “Don Valley, you have performed a great service for our people in Sheffield. You have been a magnificent As a result of these investments, Sheffield became the institution.” We now have to look to the future and see first city of sport in 1995. It has seen rates of participation how improvements can be made on the site when the in sport rise—by almost 6% just in the past three years, stadium is finally cleared. 3.5% above the national average. One in seven of Britain’s Olympic athletes for 2012 trained at some point in 9.56 am Sheffield’s facilities. Of course, the pin-up girl for Team Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab): It GB, Jess Ennis, comes from the city and developed her is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Leigh. talent in Sheffield’s facilities. I pay tribute to her for I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield being announced as world sportswoman of the year 9WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 10WH only last night, and I place on the record our congratulations by Sport England itself only yesterday. Sport England to Jess on that achievement. Next week, she will rightly has produced a report on sports facilities in the town be given the freedom of the city of Sheffield. We are all and has made it clear that there is a need for a facility very proud of her, and I look forward to seeing her along the lines of what is already in place in that receive that award. community.The reasons are clear—they are fairly obvious. However, all the developments I have mentioned For those who do not know the area, Stocksbridge is came at a cost—one that the city and its citizens have a small town some 12 miles from the centre of Sheffield. borne for many years, as my hon. Friend the Member It is—still—a steel town. It is semi-rural in nature and for Sheffield Central pointed out. We are still bearing completely surrounded by fairly intensely rural hamlets the cost, but the cuts being made now to Sheffield’s and villages. It is isolated in many ways from the urban local government budget makes it all but impossible to centre to which it is attached in a local government keep all the facilities open. In that context, the decision context. to close Don Valley stadium is inevitable. That is something With good reason, local people have been concerned— that Lord Coe sympathised with yesterday. He made it indeed, very angry—about the proposal to close the clear that he entirely understood the reasons why the leisure centre. An impressive working group, led by a council has taken the decision that it has. very capable and dedicated local businesswoman, has However, even if the Government’s funding decisions opened negotiations with the council on an alternative are so careless of the legacy made possible by Sheffield’s way forward. I remain hopeful that the council can find investment and by the investment in elite sport put in a way of keeping the current facility open for a period place by the previous, Labour Government, it is clear long enough for the development of a sustainable plan that Sheffield is not, hence the alternative proposal now for the future of sports provision in the town. However, being shaped and taken forward by Richard Caborn, an that will not be easy, given the scale of the cuts faced by ex-Sports Minister with a record second to none. I the local authority. therefore echo the challenges laid down by my hon. I therefore pay tribute to people such as Emma Friends; we need to see the Government supporting Gregory and Fay Howard, who have stepped forward— Sheffield as it attempts to secure its future as a provider again, it is women who just roll their sleeves up and get of opportunities for elite sport. I look forward to hearing on with the job—and shown what they are made of. the Minister’s response on that point. They are fighting for their community even in the midst The summer of 2012 was probably the greatest summer of the worst funding settlement for local government in of sport that this country has ever witnessed, but Team our lifetimes. They are the big society writ large. It is not GB’s success in both sets of games—the Paralympic only the local authority that owes them, but the games and the ordinary, if I can call them that, Olympic Government. They are doing that not just because they games—was not built in a day, a week or a year. To understand the importance of sport for the health of develop and nurture the talent that blossomed so beautifully their children or because they understand that children last August and September takes many years. Often—in should be given the opportunity to learn to swim. They fact, nearly always—future Olympians start their sport are also doing it because they know that youngsters as youngsters, taking up their interest at local facilities living in their community may well have the potential to and in local schools. It is the cuts in funding for those compete in future Olympic Games. local opportunities that lead many of us to fear that Already, the area surrounding Stocksbridge is home 2012 might have been a false dawn—a high watermark to the world downhill biking champion. Already, it has for British achievement, rather than the first stage in a strengths in key areas such as rock climbing, mountain long-term renaissance of British sport. biking and cycling more generally. But, who knows, We are hearing of local authorities closing leisure perhaps the real tragedy will be that if this facility facilities throughout the country. For many, the choice closes, the country loses the next Rebecca Adlington or is unenviable—close a leisure facility or cut back on Sharron Davies. That may happen if the community adult care or another statutory service. A significant loses the facility. The council and the community need number of local authorities are seeing 30% reductions to find a way forward, and these transitions are never in budgets. Sheffield has already seen £100 million cost-free. Whether or not the way forward is a refurbishment taken out of its budget. Next year’s budget, as from of the current facility or the building of a brand-new April of this year, will see another £50 million cut as the facility that is cheaper to run and managed on a community council attempts to balance the books and, in common trust basis, which is the most likely way forward, there is with what is happening in many other local authority a need to invest time and money in establishing a areas, it is leisure and sports facilities that are finding positive resolution to the issue. themselves in the firing line. I therefore issue a challenge to the Minister. It is One example is Stocksbridge leisure centre, in my entirely in line with Government thinking on finding constituency.The centre was paid for by public subscription alternative ways forward in the context of their cuts. We by local people and opened in 1970. It was a genuine are doing exactly what you are telling us to do—what case of local people clubbing together to provide their the Government are telling us to do. I apologise, Mr Leigh. own facilities—the big society, if you like. However, the local council, because of the financial pressures that it Mr Edward Leigh (in the Chair): It is not my Government; finds itself under, has decided that it will no longer fund I am purely the Chairman. the subsidy required to keep the facility open. That is a not inconsiderable sum; it is about £400,000 a year. Angela Smith: I am aware that legacy funds have been People will agree that the centre is expensive to run, but made available and that NHS moneys are available to most will agree that it still provides a critically important invest, but those funds do not address the scale of the service to the local community. That point was agreed threats facing sports facilities created by funding cuts. 11WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 12WH

[Angela Smith] should be investing in physical activity to alleviate the obesity crisis, the Government are instead doing the There is clearly a problem relating to small, isolated opposite. Cuts to local authorities will inevitably fall communities such as Stocksbridge. Although the trend disproportionately on our sports facilities—Sheffield is towards creating fewer and larger facilities to cover any not an isolated case. The Local Government Association given area may well be fine for densely populated areas, has produced a report that says that there is evidence of for rural or semi-rural communities the model falls more participation, but the worst of the funding cuts short of what is needed. have yet to come, and if the facilities are not there, I am therefore adding to the requests that we are participation levels will decrease. Sheffield’s participation making today of the Minister. After all, if we are asking rates will almost certainly decrease if both facilities—Don for Government support to find a way forward on Don Valley and Stocksbridge—close. Cuts to sporting bodies Valley, clearly it is also imperative that we ask for and Sport England will affect elite and non-elite sport. effective Government support for communities such as The cumulative impact of the cuts will, I fear, mean that Stocksbridge. Will the Minister recognise that point, instead of the London Olympics being the springboard and will he commit today to looking at the issue and to for greater things, they will be seen merely as the high trying to establish the transitional funds necessary to water mark, with a steep decline in performance on the enable communities and local authorities, working together, international scene to follow. to remould their current sports provision in order to develop sustainable solutions to the funding challenges building up in rural and semi-rural areas? It is often 10.14 am forgotten that south Yorkshire is broadly rural. Sheffield Meg Munn (Sheffield, Heeley) (Lab/Co-op): I is to a large extent rural; one third of the city is in the congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield national park. This is not only an issue for the south of Central (Paul Blomfield) on securing the debate. It is a England—Sussex or Kent—it matters as much to south pleasure to be alongside my good friends to argue our Yorkshire as anywhere else. We may be metropolitan, case. but we are in some aspects fundamentally rural. In the summer, I had two amazing weeks in London, Sport England itself agrees. Its report, issued only and being a proper Yorkshire person, that is not something yesterday, on the sports facilities in Stocksbridge makes I say lightly. The first amazing week was at the beginning it clear that while it is important to deal with the current of August, when I was privileged to be there on super situation by developing new district sports centres—there Saturday to see athletes win three gold medals, including is a clear idea in Sheffield about what those centres Sheffield’s very own Jessica Ennis. A month later, I had might look like—areas such as Stocksbridge need local, tickets to the Paralympics, and I was there on thriller albeit small, facilities due to their isolation. Thursday to see another great Yorkshire woman, Hannah I shall conclude with one more point. The funding Cockroft, and two other brilliant athletes win golds. We problems faced by sports facilities in areas such as know that the wonderful stadium in which I spent much Sheffield are being made a whole lot worse because of of my amazing time in London is struggling to continue the coalition Government’s decision to cut funding for and cannot continue only as an athletics stadium. The school sport partnerships. The £162 million cut to the facts of life mean that athletics stadiums are very difficult school sport partnership programme, alongside cuts to support, and yet Don Valley has kept going through to specialist sports colleges, was a devastating blow to the will of the people of Sheffield for more than 20 years, sport in schools. It means that 60% less time is now but that involves a subsidy of £700,000 a year, which is being spent on organising school sport than was once no longer sustainable. the case. Almost half of local authorities have recorded Don Valley opened in 1991. I did not live in Sheffield a decrease in the number of school sport partnerships at the time; I had a brief period working out that operating, with a staggering one-third of local authorities Yorkshire really is the best place to live and hurried having no school sport partnerships in operation. Under back only a couple of years later. I took time off from the previous Government, record investment in school my job in social services and, rather than go on holiday, sport saw huge increases in participation, in both I went to Sheffield to spend time at the world student competitive and non-competitive sport. The last school games. It was a phenomenal event. Over the years, I sport survey, in 2009-10, found that 78% of pupils took have visited Don Valley regularly, turning up to many part in intra-school competitive activities, up from 58% of the great events held there. I have seen world records; in 2006-07. Unfortunately, the current Government do I was there, at the same time as my hon. Friend the not see sport in the same way, but I would be pleased to Member for Penistone and Stocksbridge (Angela Smith), hear the Minister prove me wrong on that. They have for the last appearance of Kelly Holmes; and I have even axed the two-hour participation target, claiming even been on the track, having completed a race for life that it was just a box-ticking exercise. there. London 2012 was a glorious achievement. It built on As my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield Central the success we enjoyed in Beijing. It did not, however, said, although the stadium is in Sheffield, it is a national happen by accident. It happened first and foremost asset. The previous Government and the current because of the impressive performances turned in by a Government were both clear and determined that the talented generation of athletes, but they could not and legacy of 2012 should not just be a legacy for London. would not have achieved that success without funding In many areas of life—transport, communication, media from Government and political will from the Government or whatever—the majority of money is spent in the of the day to achieve great things. However, sport is not region we are in now. If we want to be one nation— solely about winning medals; it is about competing, a dare I say it?—money should be available and spent in healthy lifestyle and having fun. When we, as a nation, the north. 13WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 14WH

I have done a lot of work looking at tennis facilities, partnership identified children who were interested and in my role in the all-party tennis group. For a long time, keen and helped them into the local clubs. The removal we have looked at developing tennis facilities at the of the funding has therefore been a huge blow. In some Graves leisure area in my constituency, which my hon. areas of Sheffield, provision has started to disappear. Friend the Member for Sheffield South East (Mr Betts) As my hon. Friends have already asked, what future kindly mentioned earlier. One reason for that is that champions are we now missing? talented young people in any sport do better if they can There was a big issue at the Olympics about the train near home. We are talking about youngsters; proportion of our elite athletes who come from a private young people who need to go to school and need their or public schooling background rather than from ordinary family’s support. Without local facilities, we will not get schools in ordinary communities. Jessica Ennis came a range of people with a range of ability from around from an ordinary school in an ordinary community, the country. Of course, we cannot have facilities of that and yet she achieved the highest possible level she calibre everywhere, but what a tragedy if we were to lose could. We all felt wonderful about that, but how many this facility, which is in the north, has delivered a world others will not get that chance if we do not cast the net champion and, we feel, can go on supporting many wide and get talented young people, who can come young people in the future if only the finance is there. from any background and from anywhere, into sport? My hon. Friends the Members for Penistone and A report by Ofsted into schools’ sport provision was Stocksbridge and for Eltham (Clive Efford) have often published just last month. It looked at what had happened spoken about school sport partnerships, because legacy in those four years. The report supported the work of is not only about facilities, but about our investment in the partnerships and encouraged the Department for young people. For a couple of minutes I want to focus Education to consider developing a new national strategy. on the effect of the cut to school sport partnerships The report stated: funding to Sheffield. Prior to the cuts, Sheffield had four thriving partnerships, each working closely with “Ofsted recommends that the Department for Education considers their schools, providing training, development, resources, devising a new national strategy for PE and school sport that curriculum support, coaching, competition and builds on the successes of school sport partnerships and enables schools to make a major contribution to the sporting legacy left participation events for them. A key feature of the work by the 2012 Olympic Games…The impact of school sport partnerships was the network that supported it: the profile of PE and in maximising participation and increasing regular competition sport in school was raised and time was given to release was clearly evident in the vast majority of schools visited.” a member of primary staff to assist the process, to We need national facilities and a national strategic enable valuable development work to take place. We plan. Sport England is doing a good job. I have with me now understand, more than ever, that getting children a list of projects that shows all sorts of work going on. I active from primary is key to keeping them active am excited about the investment into the Graves sports through life. facilities in my constituency, which will, importantly, Since the removal of funding, partnerships have been look at the link between health and sport and enable forced to set up as private enterprises, which means that people with disabilities and long-term conditions to they are no longer directly funding. Schools have had to look at how sport can help them improve. There is a lot make tough decisions, when their budgets are under going on, but surely the investment should not just be pressure, on whether they can afford to buy in the about new facilities all the time; surely we must look to service for their children. support facilities that have delivered for us in the past. Not only did the funding end in 2011, but so did the The Government promised a legacy.They must redouble PE and sports strategy for young people, which supported their efforts to make it happen. the partnerships’ work. As part of the strategy, partnerships undertook a full audit annually to monitor the engagement of their schools in PE and sporting activity. It is a bit disingenuous of the Government, while we are trying to 10.24 am encourage participation, to say, “As part of our cuts to Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab): It is a pleasure to participate paperwork, partnerships will no longer have to monitor in this debate under your chairmanship, Mr Leigh. I that.” Some of us might think that that is just a way of congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Sheffield covering up the fact that, as we know, participation will Central (Paul Blomfield) on securing this debate, and decrease. my hon. Friends the Members for Penistone and During the school sports partnerships era, schools Stocksbridge (Angela Smith), for Sheffield South East that were previously unengaged became more engaged, (Mr Betts) and for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) on as they had dedicated funding to do so. As soon as the the way in which they have represented their constituencies funding went, along with the network, the engaged in this important debate. schools continued to be involved at some level, but This debate is important because Sheffield is synonymous less-interested schools started to become unengaged with sport in this country; it has made itself so over a once more. That impacts most greatly on families in long time. This debate is about fairness, consistency and which PE and sports are not common parts of their planning. There is discussion about legacy in one section daily life and on families that are financially constrained. of Government—that we must deliver and build the An important part of the partnerships was that there legacy—but in another section of the Government— were clear links between schools and clubs in the the Department for Communities and Local Government community. I know from my constituency that although —we see a complete failure to have any strategy whatever clubs were available—some are not that expensive, such and to plan ahead for sports facilities, in order to ensure as the Beauchief tennis club—families were not used to that the enthusiasm inspired by 2012 can be met by the going there, so the link was not made. The school sports capacity to provide sports services for people. 15WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 16WH

[Clive Efford] has forced it to make the decision, but changes in the business plan for the stadium would probably in any This debate highlights the Government’s reckless case have forced a decision about its future. approach towards local authorities and sport services. We Even in the light of what is taking place, Sheffield has consistently find that the Government have no coherent still shown a commitment to the provision of state-of-the-art plan when it comes to sport. Local government has an sports facilities. It is still prepared to put £150 million of essential role to play in encouraging participation in sport capital into the refurbishment of the Woodbourn facility and physical recreation, but what we see from the Government to bring it up to standard, so that it can remain an are consistent attacks on local government and precious athletics training facility, to put £70,000 a year of revenue little evidence of working in partnership with it. into it and to hand it over to local athletics clubs for Research by the Local Government Association, them to run, so that it continues to provide sports published last Friday, shows that demand is growing in facilities, particularly for athletics. Even at this time of local authority areas post-2012, but with the cuts imposed severe cuts, Sheffield is prepared to support state-of-the-art by this Government, we are moving in the opposite sports facilities for future generations. direction from the one in which we should be moving. The lack of any strategy from the Government is highlighted Many people have queued to have their picture taken by the comments of Toni Minichiello, Jessica Ennis’s with the athletes who have benefited from the facilities coach, with regard to Don Valley. He asked why the provided in Sheffield—particularly with the likes of Jess Secretary of State for Education Ennis. I have to say, however, that some of the people at “twice had to delay announcements on sport in primary schools? the front of that queue have not entirely supported Why have school sports partnerships been cut? Why are athletics Sheffield’s investment in sports facilities over the years. tracks up and down the country—not just in Sheffield—having to My hon. Friends have highlighted some of the double close? All of these errors could have been foreseen. That is the dealing of local politicians in Sheffield over the financial point of legacy—investment and planning.” package for Don Valley—criticising it at one time, while Across the whole sporting community, we consistently defending it and saying that they want the stadium kept hear the same comment: this Government have no open at another time. coherent sport strategy to deliver the legacy. There is a In Sheffield, only Labour politicians have shown a lack of cross-departmental, joined-up thinking, threatening consistent commitment over a generation to investing in the 2012 legacy. sports facilities, for which they are to be commended. Sheffield has become a centre of excellence for sport. Sheffield did not become a centre of excellence in sport It hosted the student games in 1991 and laid the foundations by accident; it had to show a commitment over many for a sporting legacy in that city. If we look back to the years to deliver the legacy of 2012, and we must provide 1980s, when I was in local government and my hon. the support in kind that it requires. The Government Friend the Member for Sheffield South East was on should be an honest broker and bring together all the Sheffield city council, Sheffield was showing the way for parties to work out a plan of action for not only the planning for sport for a generation. We have all celebrated Don Valley site, but Woodbourn. We are not talking what has gone on in Sheffield over the past year, but it about the Government committing huge resources, but did not come either cheaply or at a moment’s notice. It using their good offices to ensure that Sheffield gets the started back in the 1980s, when Sheffield planned for support that it needs. the World student games. It has built on that legacy, showing an innovative way of approaching sports Up and down the country, local authorities are making development—years ahead of other local authorities. It decisions about vital sports facilities. They are having to planned to have not just a centre of excellence for sport, ensure that such facilities—many are being outsourced but a place where major entertainment events could to outside organisations—are financially viable and take place and to use the income generated from that to sustainable. I want to hear from the Minister what he is cross-subsidise a state-of-the-art sports facility. doing to ensure that people are not being excluded from Sadly, time has caught up with that; competition sports facilities because of cost. The more local government from other venues has meant that it has not been finance is squeezed, the greater the need to raise income possible to sustain that business plan over many years. from fees and charges and the more that people on low However, if the people of Sheffield look back, they will incomes—the very people we must encourage to participate see that they have been extremely well served by the more, as all the research shows—are excluded from forward thinking of the people who planned the student services. What exactly is he doing to ensure that we do games and the facilities back then. Last year showed not exclude people on the basis of cost from participating what that sort of long-term planning can deliver. The in local government sports facilities in these times of Olympics were a great event not only for London, but austerity? for places such as Sheffield, which have been providing The Government need to work with local authorities state-of-the-art facilities for our best athletes to train in to ensure that they do all they can to have the capacity so that they could compete at the top of their sport and to meet the demands highlighted by the Local Government bring an enormous amount of national pride to the Association research. What discussions has the Minister United Kingdom. We all owe a debt of gratitude to the had with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport pioneers back in the 1980s who planned for the student about the future of sports facilities? If there is a cross- games and delivered a legacy for us last year. That is Government approach to sport, I am sure that he will why it is important that we support their endeavours in have had meetings with that Department to assess the Sheffield. impact of cuts on local government services. Exactly I am not suggesting that anyone can provide £700,000 what discussions have taken place, and what can he a year to sustain the Don Valley stadium; no one is tell us about their outcome for protecting the sporting asking for that. The current financial situation in Sheffield legacy in local government services? 17WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 18WH

The Government’s own councillors are criticising has the potential to regenerate a major site in the city their approach to austerity in local government services. and to create nearly 1,000 jobs. It is innovative in how it The Local Government Association has declared Tory- approaches the whole well-being issue of health, sports led West Somerset council to be “not viable” over and recreation; and it could be unique and a beacon for the longer term. The Tory former LGA chair Baroness other areas to follow. The Government have a lot to Eaton has said that the understanding of the Secretary gain by examining such a scheme, which was proposed of State for Communities and Local Government about by Dick Caborn this morning. the impact of the cuts on local government is Sheffield has become synonymous with sport in this “detached from the reality councils are dealing with”. country and with sporting success. That success has Merrick Cockell has suggested that the cuts are been a long time in creation, which shows that a legacy unsustainable in future. is something that is developed over many years. We can all learn from that as we try to build on the 2012 legacy. Labour authorities across the country are working Sheffield has laid down a challenge for the Government— hard to protect community sports facilities. Research by what will they do to help regenerate the site and to my office has found that Tory authorities are, on average, ensure that Sheffield continues to play its part as a making greater cuts to sport development and facilities major sporting centre of excellence for the next generation? expenditure than Labour authorities, so the idea that any of the cuts are politically motivated is ridiculous. No one is saying that there should be no cuts—I am 10.41 am sure that the Minister will say that there is no money, an argument we have heard before—but the unfair cuts are The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for forcing the loss of so many facilities in areas of high Communities and Local Government (Brandon Lewis): It deprivation. is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Leigh. I congratulate the hon. Member for Sheffield Local government is hitting the poorest hardest. The Central (Paul Blomfield) on securing this debate, and spending power of the 10 most deprived local authorities other hon. Members on showing their support for Sheffield is being cut by eight times that of the 10 least deprived and the stadium. local authorities. Taking the cuts per head of population, 43 of the top 50 are Labour, three are Conservative and Hon. Members will no doubt be aware that the the rest have no overall control; none is Liberal Democrat. Department for Culture, Media and Sport sets the Sheffield is 39th in that list, and is being forced to cut policy framework for sport funding decisions, but that £139.57 per head. The Prime Minister’s area is losing the day-to-day decision making on the funding for local only £34 per head. sports facilities lies with the local authority, with Sport England providing advice, guidance and, in some cases, Government cuts to Sheffield’s funding, rising prices funding. I know that my right hon. Friend the Minister and increasing demand mean that Sheffield has to find of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport £50 million of savings next year, on top of the £140 million would have liked to have been here this morning, but of savings already made over the past two years. The unfortunately he had to attend a Bill Committee sitting. Government have said that the cuts will continue until Let me deal with some of the issues that have been 2018, which leaves Sheffield in the desperate situation of raised about the local government finance settlement having no choice but to make such decisions as the one before talking a bit about the Olympic legacy and the about Don Valley. situation in Sheffield. Despite that cut, Labour councils are playing their A couple of hon. Members questioned whether the part. Although the hardest cuts to sports expenditure local government finance settlement was fair. They are being imposed on Labour authorities across the might have been present in the Chamber when that country, Labour authorities are cutting 6% of sports matter was debated, and when we were able to outline, spend, Tory authorities are cutting 11% and Liberal as a House of Commons Library report confirms, that Democrat authorities are cutting 17%. Even in these the settlement was fair to north and south, east and times of austerity, Labour authorities, which are at the west, urban and rural. Some of the comparisons that top of the list for cuts to local spending capacity, are are used, and we have heard some this morning from showing the way in protecting sports services and facilities. the hon. Members for Eltham (Clive Efford) and for I want to hear exactly what the Minister will do in Sheffield South East (Mr Betts), are—I choose my relation to Sheffield. I am not for a minute suggesting words carefully—not appropriate. It is difficult to make that he can rush in and spend a whole load of Government a fair comparison between some of the metropolitan money, but I want to know what, if anything, anyone in city councils in the north that get a per dwelling spend the Government has done to liaise with the local authority, of around £3,500 to £3,700 with a council such as the UK Athletics and any of the parties interested in the one in the Prime Minister’s west Oxfordshire constituency, Don Valley site to ensure that we sustain state-of-the-art which has a per dwelling spend of £1,800, or even to sports facilities in Sheffield and that the Don Valley site a council in a constituency such as mine, which has a is developed for the benefit of the local community. couple of the most deprived wards in the country, and We have heard about the consortium led by the has one of the highest per dwelling spends in Norfolk, former Minister for Sport Dick Caborn. That scheme is but is still only at £2,200. It is wholly inappropriate to worthy of great consideration and has been given initial compare such authorities, and the changes in their backing by Lord Coe, who is the Government’s adviser expenditure, to authorities that get substantially more on the Olympic legacy. What do the Government intend in the first place because their baseline is much higher. to do in relation to that scheme and what part will they The problem for West Somerset, which was mentioned play in examining its viability and, if necessary, in by the hon. Member for Eltham, is not related to the ensuring that the scheme moves forward? The scheme percentage of its funding—it actually had an increase 19WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 20WH

[Brandon Lewis] Sport England is investing more than £1 billion in youth and community sport, which includes more than this year—but to the fact that it has 35,000 residents 1,000 local sports facilities. across a big rural area, leaving the council with a critical The Government are fully committed to providing mass issue to deal with. In fact, I have a meeting with high-quality sport in schools as well as in communities. Somerset MPs this morning about that very issue. Our new schools games programme introduces competitive I am tempted to take literally the words of the hon. sport in schools, between schools and at county, regional Gentleman, who seemed to suggest that we should go and national level. We have invested more than £100 million back to central control of local government and to in the programme, and well over half of all schools are dictate from the centre what councils must do, but I taking part. Indeed, the national finals are being held in must remind him that with the Localism Act 2011, the Sheffield this year. The programme is getting young Government have made it clear that we believe in localism. people to play sport regularly and not creating bureaucratic, Local determination should decide how councils spend top-down networks. However, we must not be complacent. their money; they are best placed to consider what their We share the desire to inspire a generation to take up local community needs and to service it. We are working and enjoy sport throughout their lives. I can confidently with local authorities, as is the LGA, to ensure that we say that an innovative and exciting announcement on see more innovative and efficient ways of working, school sport will be made shortly. whether that is through shared services, shared management Additionally, let me draw hon. Members’ attention to or outsourcing. We are looking at how they work the Government’s 10-point sports action plan, which and facilitate to ensure that they spend their money sets out how much is being done to deliver a real legacy on important front-line services for residents, not on from the London games. With those announcements bureaucracy, red tape and back-office management costs. down the line, I hope that hon. Members will be pleased They can still go further on that, but ultimately it is for with the Government’s direction of travel. those authorities to make their local decisions. On the specifics of Government spending and the As hon. Members have said, the Olympic games last legacy for Sheffield, naturally nobody wants to see a summer were truly magnificent and a great boost to the sports facility close, but local authorities need to make whole country, both psychologically and in a sporting tough decisions to ensure that they are providing the sense, showcasing the very best of what we as a country best possible services to all their communities, and that have to offer. Specifically for this debate, we must includes strategic management of the public estate at a recognise the great talent of Jessica Ennis. Like the hon. cost that is affordable within their budget constraints. Member for Sheffield South East, I was fortunate enough The hon. Member for Eltham alluded to how much to be in the stadium on her first day of competition. It money is out there, but the reality is we are having to was fantastic to see what she achieved and the inspiration deal with the previous Government’s atrocious legacy that she and other athletes have given to those who of deficit and debt, so we must start to live within our might follow in their footsteps. If we are to repeat the means. Local government accounts for around a quarter success in 2016, we must ensure that our athletes have of public expenditure, so it has its part to play in this the best possible conditions in which to train, which is process. That is why councils must make decisions about something on which we can all agree. what they are doing and how best they provide facilities Let me make a few general points about what the for local people. I suspect that is also why Lord Coe Government are doing to secure a lasting sporting himself has said, in support of the decisions that Sheffield legacy to the games before addressing the specifics of city council has to make, that he understands why a what is happening in Sheffield. In December, UK Sport local authority must look at these situations and make and Sport England, the public bodies responsible for decisions. the delivery of elite and grass-roots sport, announced the funding they will be providing over the next four As has been said, Don Valley stadium is 23 years old years. UK Sport will invest £347 million in elite sport and costs about £700,000 a year to operate. It also has and Sport England will provide £493 million to the an estimated repair bill of more than £1.5 million and national governing bodies of sport for community sport. there is another stadium, less than a mile away, which In addition, more than £100 million of lottery and costs £70,000 a year to operate. Therefore, it is for public funding is being invested in school games over Sheffield city council to make the decision about which the next three years; and £500,000 is being invested in of these facilities they can afford and to justify that youth sport over the next five years through the youth decision to their people locally, without central Government sport strategy, with £150 million being invested through dictating whether it is a right or wrong decision. the Places People Play programme to upgrade 1,000 local I am informed that the council has given clear assurances sports venues. Some 15.5 million people aged 16 and that local people will still have access to first-class over are now playing sport at least once a week, which is outdoor athletics facilities; indeed, Sheffield is extremely 750,000 more than a year ago and 1.57 million more well served in that respect. The council are also talking than when London won the Olympic and Paralympic to local athletics groups about how they can become bid. In the current economic climate that is a significant involved in the management of those facilities, and I investment in sport. I can reassure hon. Members that will come back to that point in a moment. Sport England both UK Sport and Sport England have record levels of has agreed to work with the council to ensure that funding thanks to this Government’s decision to restore Woodbourn becomes a first-class, sustainable venue for the lottery shares to the original good causes, including community and elite athlete training, and for regional sport. competition. UK Sport is investing almost £500,000 to ensure that Of course, Sheffield also has a first-class indoor our athletes can build on the success of last year and do facility in the form of the English Institute of Sport, even better in Rio in 2016. Over the next four years, which is where Jessica Ennis herself does much of her 21WH Olympic Legacy (Sheffield)12 MARCH 2013 Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) 22WH

UK training. I was also heartened to hear that Sheffield also trust local authorities. Unlike Labour, we trust local has been the recipient of a number of grants for facilities, authorities and local people to make the right decisions both large and small, including a grant in 2011 of for their local communities. That is what local elections almost £5 million for the English Institute of Sport. As and local democracy are about, and that is obviously I have already said, Sheffield will also host the national where the difference lies between central and local control. finals of the school games in September 2013. I welcome the imaginative proposal unveiled this Angela Smith: The Minister has said a great deal morning by the former Sport Minister, and I can confirm about trusting local councils and local people. He talked that my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department earlier about the importance of all that—indeed, he has for Culture, Media and Sport, will be pleased to meet referred to it twice—but as yet he has said nothing those involved in developing that proposal. I also encourage about the leisure facility in my constituency, even though them to meet Sport England, to discuss how they might I asked that he give a response to the argument that the apply for funding under the sports legacy iconic facilities Government could do more to support the council and programme. the community in finding a future for sports in that area. None of this activity means that either central or local government can or should be complacent; we simply cannot afford to be. We all want to build on the Brandon Lewis: Actually, I think that I have directly success that we saw in 2012. However, just providing the addressed that point in my comments. It is for local facilities will not guarantee a lasting legacy, which is authorities to look at what they need for their local why my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department community and how they spend their money in the for Culture, Media and Sport, laid out the 10-point interests of servicing their local community. As I have plan to ensure a sporting legacy, including school sport, always said, if any local council has a particular issue getting more children involved in competitive sport, that they wish to come to discuss with me, I am very specific disability sports programmes, talent development happy for them to do that; indeed, I am very happy for and elite sport, attracting and delivering major coaching the hon. Lady to do that too. and volunteer programmes, and world-class facilities. The combination of all the things that I mentioned earlier is exactly what made the Olympic games last Meg Munn: Given that the aim is to involve more year such a success, and it is that combination—not one children in sport, will the Government bring back the thing alone, but a combination of things—that will registering and counting of exactly what is going on in provide a legacy to 2012, a legacy that I hope Sheffield schools? continues to help to deliver, through the inspiration of Jessica Ennis and others like her, as well as through the Brandon Lewis: We have made it quite clear that we local communities who support their local facilities. are trying to move away from asking local authorities and local areas to report back lots and lots of information; 10.54 am that is part of helping them to reduce their costs. We Sitting suspended. 23WH 12 MARCH 2013 Reburial of King Richard III 24WH

Reburial of King Richard III the proposition that the mortal remains should be buried in York minster, which is where Richard, during his life, 11 am gave notice that he would like to be buried. The Government must find some fair, independent process for arbitrating Mr Edward Leigh (in the Chair): We now come to a between parties on this question. most interesting debate on the licensing of the reburial of King Richard III. I am sure that hon. Members will Nigel Adams (Selby and Ainsty) (Con): I appreciate not be guilty of lèse-majesté in their comments. that the hon. Gentleman believes that this should be a Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab): An interesting decision for the state—that is, in some ways, correct—but debate indeed. does he not think that there should be some consideration and weight given to the views of the late King’s family I pay tribute to Richard Buckley, from university of and descendants? Leicester archaeological services, who led the dig in the car park in Leicester which found the remains of King Hugh Bayley: The late King’s descendants—17 of Richard III. It was a pleasure to talk to him last week, them—published a statement recently supporting the when preparing for this debate. I also pay tribute to the proposition that their ancestor should be buried in York Yorkist Richard III Society, which proposed the dig to minster. Their voices ought most certainly be heard in Leicester university and made some funding available the process that I propose, as should those of the royal to enable it to take place. family, the Church of England and the Catholic Church, It is 527 and a half years since the end of the wars of which I mention in deference to a question asked by the the roses, a nasty, bloody civil war that tore our country hon. Member for Gainsborough (Mr Leigh), who is apart. Although people think of it as a war between the chairing our proceedings, on the Floor of the House white rose of York and the red rose of Lancaster, it was last week. The voices of many people with interests in fact a war between the north and the south and it was should be considered before a final decision is made. as horrible as any of the more recent civil wars of the 20th and 21st centuries. In this debate I do not want to In preparing for this debate, I consulted a number of set York against Leicester. Rather, I want to use the people. I have mentioned Richard Buckley, but I also stupendous discovery of King Richard’s remains to consulted Dr Sebastian Payne, former chief scientist for bring our cities closer together, perhaps as a metaphor English Heritage, who is a member of the advisory for the one-nation politics that all our parties nowadays panel on the archaeology of burials in England. I spoke stand for. to Simon Mays, the scientist responsible for human remains at English Heritage; to Wendy Moorhen, deputy I do not hide the fact that I believe that King Richard III’s chairman of the Richard III Society; to Paul Toy, mortal remains should be buried in York. However, that curator of the Richard III museum in York; to Vivienne is not the purpose of today’s debate. I want the Government Faull, Dean of York minster, and to others. to create a fair, independent process for arbitrating between the claims of York and Leicester, and other The licence issued by the Ministry of Justice to places, such as Westminster abbey, just across the road, Leicester archaeological services unit to excavate the car where Anne Neville, King Richard’s wife, is buried. I park permitted want the Government, having created such a process, to “the removal of the remains of persons unknown”. come to decisions in a dignified way, based on historical Richard Buckley told me that the prospects for finding advice, and after considering the views of all interested King Richard were remote and that that was known by parties. It is the responsibility of the state to decide the Ministry of Justice when the licence was issued. where, how and when King Richard, former King and Indeed, the licence application contained the phrase, head of state for our country, is buried. It is not a “in the unlikely event of finding the remains of Richard”, decision that should be delegated to a group of academics at Leicester university, as is currently specified in the so it is no surprise that the decision was taken in licence for the dig, issued by the Ministry of Justice. relation to persons unknown, rather than in relation to a former king. David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con): Will my hon. Friend give way? Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab): I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. He mentions Hugh Bayley: How could I not give way to the hon. the licence granted by the Ministry of Justice, which I Member for Bosworth (David Tredinnick) on such an would argue was granted in the fair and independent occasion? way that he has been calling for, but the application for the licence was explicit about Richard. It said that a David Tredinnick: I am deeply grateful to the hon. licence was wanted for an Gentleman, whom I called my hon. Friend in a slip of the tongue. I have known him for many years. The “excavation to investigate the remains of Leicester’s Franciscan overwhelming opinion in the county of Leicestershire is Friary and also potentially locate the burial place of Richard III, that King Richard III should be buried close to where whose remains were interred here in 1485”. he has lain for more than 500 years. I hope that, in the The application explicitly asked for a licence to find end, he finds himself at peace in Leicester cathedral. Richard III. The licence was clear that any remains should be deposited at the Jewry Wall museum in Hugh Bayley: I do not for a minute disbelieve that Leicester or else reinterred at St Martin’s cathedral in that is the sentiment in Leicester. Indeed, an e-petition Leicester. The reason for that, presumably, is that it is with 7,500 signatures supports the proposition that the archaeological good practice that remains are reinterred King’s remains should be laid to rest in Leicester cathedral. at the nearest consecrated ground, which is Leicester There is also an e-petition with 24,000 signatures supporting cathedral. 25WH Reburial of King Richard III12 MARCH 2013 Reburial of King Richard III 26WH

Hugh Bayley: I am advised by various people, whose “since the exhumation was carried out under Ministry of Justice opinions and good advice I sought before this debate, licence, it is APABE’s understanding that the final decision on that each case must be considered on its merits. There re-interment rests with the MoJ and that it is open to the MoJ to are many archaeological investigations in my constituency. vary the terms of the licence. Therefore, APABE advises that your detailed questions should be addressed to them. APABE has no The licence issued to the Leicester archaeologists contained views about where the remains should be re-interred or how the broadly the same terms as a licence that would normally place of burial should be marked. APABE recommends, however, be issued to any archaeological society or group with a that the views of those that have justifiable close links with the decent reason to dig. It mentioned “persons unknown”. deceased, be they historical, cultural or religions, require balanced If a mediaeval tailor had been found, it might have been consideration as, for instance, set out in recent DCMS Guidance. appropriate to keep his remains in the county archaeological Consideration should also be given to the rights, Canon Law and museum in Leicester or to rebury them nearby. In the responsibilities of the Church of England as the legal successor of case of a king’s remains, reburial is absolutely necessary. the Church into whose keeping the body was given at burial.” The remains should not be kept in a museum in Leicester The Government have the power to amend the licence; or anywhere else. The state has a decision to make indeed, they frequently amend licences. Back in the about what is the appropriate way to deal with the 1980s, when the York Archaeological Trust was excavating remains of a former king. at Jewbury, in York, the plans were changed as a result of representations from orthodox Jews, who took the Chris Skidmore (Kingswood) (Con) rose— view that the Jewish skeletons that were discovered should be reburied quickly, in line with Jewish practice. Hugh Bayley: I will give way to the hon. Gentleman Four years ago, the Ministry, under the previous and then I will try to make some progress with my Administration, issued advice that, generally speaking, argument. human remains should be reburied quickly. However, that has been found to be impractical in some cases, Chris Skidmore: I want to declare my interest. I am a because it impedes archaeologists’ scientific examination member of the Richard III Society and I have written of the remains. The Ministry has therefore amended a book on the battle of Bosworth. My standpoint is quite a few licences in recent years to permit scientific neutral, being a Member of Parliament for Bristol, examinations. neither from Leicestershire nor Yorkshire. I am interested I have two proposals for the Minister. First, he should in the hon. Gentleman’s discussion about an independent appoint an independent committee of experts to examine solution. Would he consider my compromise, whereby the historical record; the scientific analysis arising out even if Richard is buried in Leicester his body might lie of the dig; good archaeological practice; and the ethical in state at York for a week? However, regardless of and religious issues. The committee should advise him where Richard is buried—perhaps the Minister could on where, how and when reburial takes place. Secondly, respond to this point—the Richard III Society has he and his Department should give the university of raised £30,000 for a tomb for him to be encased in. I am Leicester notice that it may be necessary, having taken keen to see whether there is support in the House for an advice from independent experts, for the Government appropriate burial in such a tomb, whether it is in to amend the licence and that preparations for reburial Leicester or York. I am also keen for that to be privately should therefore temporarily cease. financed so that it is not a great cost to the taxpayer. There are two other issues I would like to mention. First, the scientific tests to establish the identity of the Hugh Bayley: Once again, I pay tribute to the role the remains are not yet complete, and archaeologists have Richard III Society has played in this whole event. It not yet published their findings from the dig in peer-reviewed proposed the investigation based on its own research, journals. In its letter to me yesterday, the advisory and the excavations were expertly carried out by the committee said: archaeologists from the university of Leicester. It is too “APABE understands that there is evidence ascertained through early to agree the compromise solution the hon. Gentleman various scientific approaches that the human remains exhumed suggests, but it is a constructive idea, and it is entirely from the site of the former Leicester Greyfriars may be those of consistent with my view that we should look at ways to the late King Richard III. Due to the potential significance bring together people from York and Leicester, rather suggested by recent media presentation of preliminary scientific than set them against each other. The idea has been results, APABE believes it is in the national interest that decisions considered by the Church, and the Dean of York mentioned about the about the future deposition of these remains should it to me last week. It is the sort of proposition that await completion and peer review of the scientific results.” could be considered under the process I am asking the I am emotionally inclined to believe the remains are Government to set in train. those of King Richard, but the Government would As I say, the licence refers to persons unknown. Now clearly be foolish to set in train arrangements for the that the identity of the remains has been established, it burial of the remains of a king—a head of state—if it is is right to reconsider the terms of the licence. Indeed, not certain that that is what has been found. Sebastian Payne, the former chief scientist at English Richard Buckley is, of course, certain that he is right, Heritage, described the discovery to me as a game but he has a vested interest in being certain: his reputation changer. He is a member of the Advisory Panel on the and legacy as an archaeologist depend on the identification Archaeology of Burials in England. The panel has being accepted. If he is right, he will go down in history, representatives from the Church of England, English like Howard Carter, who found Tutankhamun, although Heritage and the Ministry of Justice. It met last Friday, Carter had the advantage that Tutankhamun was found and I asked Dr Payne to seek its advice on this case. in a casket that had Egyptian hieroglyphics on the side Yesterday, I received a reply from Professor Holger saying, “This is the body of Pharaoh Tutankhamun.” Schutkowski, the chair of the panel. He wrote to me, Unfortunately, King Richard—buried in haste after the saying that battle, naked and with his hands tied by his captors—was 27WH Reburial of King Richard III12 MARCH 2013 Reburial of King Richard III 28WH

[Hugh Bayley] Leicester and its archaeologists for their efforts in recovering and identifying the body of Richard III, but they remain found in neither a coffin nor even a shroud, and no frustrated that they were not able to put forward their evidence was found of coffin nails or of the pins that views on where he should be interred. would have pinned a shroud together. What is even more frustrating for them is that I mentioned that public opinion is split, with thousands Richard III’s own views have not been consulted either. of people supporting Leicester, and three times as many Historians widely believe that while he was alive he supporting burial in York. I have received many letters expressed a desire to be buried in York. Indeed, he spent and e-mails from members of the public supporting the best part of his childhood at Middleham castle in burial in York. Most are thoughtful, well argued and the Yorkshire dales. Richard also spent some of the best based on scientific facts, but some are, frankly, inflammatory. years of his life as his elder brother’s lieutenant in I talked to the Dean of York yesterday, and some of the Yorkshire, and he clearly identified himself with the city letters she has received at the minster are so extreme of York and its minster. He drew much of his support that she has referred the correspondence to the police. I and power base from York and Yorkshire. In return, would say to everybody: calm down. Let us all respect York clearly held a very special position in his heart, the memory of a former king of our country, and let us and that was reflected in his plans for a chantry of discuss, in a dignified and sober way, where his remains 100 priests in York minster, where he wished to be should finally be put to rest; we do not want to reignite buried. the wars of the roses. I provoked some laughter in the main Chamber in Jonathan Ashworth: I will be brief, Mr Leigh. It is October when I said that King Richard is still well certainly true that Richard planned the extension to regarded in York. His reputation was trashed by that York minster that the hon. Gentleman referred to, but pesky playwright from Stratford-upon-Avon. History is there is no evidence that he said he wanted to be buried always written by the victor, and the Tudor dynasty had there, is there? a vested interest in undermining King Richard’s reputation. Of course, Shakespeare would not have got a licence Julian Sturdy: The evidence comes from the city of from the Government of the day to perform his plays if York and Richard’s living descendants, who were mentioned he had told the truth about good King Richard. Long by the hon. Member for Selby and Ainsty (Nigel Adams). may the BBC remain free from Government licensing! The call is strong from the great county of Yorkshire I do not have time to make the case for Richard’s that Richard III wanted to be buried where he was burial in York, except to say it was what he requested in loved and supported. his lifetime. Weighed against that is the case for burying The decision to allow the university of Leicester to him where his remains were found, which was made by have a free rein over King Richard’s final resting place my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South (Jonathan flies in the face of the wishes of tens of thousands of Ashworth). However, the decision should be taken on people who have added their support to the campaign independent national advice, not delegated to archaeologists for him to be buried in York, as well as those of his from Leicester, who clearly support the Leicester cause, remaining descendants, as I have said. It is true that and who would have found it outrageous if the decision Westminster abbey, Leicester cathedral and York minster had been delegated to a group of people from York. We all have claims as suitable locations to bury Richard need this decision to be taken nationally, in the national III—I do not doubt that at all—but instead of allowing interests and by people who are independent of the campaigners on all three sides to debate this issue in a vested interests of York or Leicester. I hope the Minister democratic fashion, the Government and the university will agree. of Leicester have hashed out an important decision If I may, Mr Leigh, I will now give the Floor to the behind closed doors and concluded a finders and keepers hon. Member for York Outer (Julian Sturdy). agreement. I will finish on this point: I entirely back the call from the hon. Member for York Central for an independent body to make the final decision over the Mr Edward Leigh (in the Chair): Order. It is my job to resting place of Richard III. arbitrate this modern war of the roses. We must give the Minister a decent amount of time, and I would be grateful if the hon. Member for York Outer (Julian 11.23 am Sturdy) kept his remarks brief. The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Jeremy Wright): I congratulate the hon. Member for 11.19 am York Central (Hugh Bayley) on securing this debate on licensing for the reburial of King Richard III. I also Julian Sturdy (York Outer) (Con): I will certainly try thank my hon. Friend the Member for York Outer to keep my remarks brief. It is a pleasure to serve under (Julian Sturdy)for his remarks. I thank both of them your chairmanship, Mr Leigh. I congratulate the hon. not just for what they have said, but for how they said it. Member for York Central (Hugh Bayley) on securing I entirely agree with the hon. Member for York Central an undoubtedly important debate, not only for hon. that it is appropriate that we conduct this debate with Members here from the great county of Yorkshire, but the dignity that the subject matter deserves. for those from across the country as well. I am well aware—if I was not before, I certainly am The controversy surrounding the decision to bury now—of the level of interest in Yorkshire and Leicestershire, Richard III at Leicester cathedral, as the hon. Member as well as the general public interest across the whole for York Central said, stems from the fact that there has country, about what should happen. The project that we been little public consultation on the issue. The people are discussing and the identification of the king’s remains of York are profoundly grateful to the university of have created a sense of national pride and excitement 29WH Reburial of King Richard III12 MARCH 2013 Reburial of King Richard III 30WH and have generated renewed interest in English history “at Jewry Wall Museum or else be reinterred at St Martins and archaeology. I am sure we can all agree that that is Cathedral or in a burial ground in which interments may legally very welcome. take place”. It is only right that I should start, as the hon. Member The conditions attached to the licence were therefore for York Central did, by congratulating the university very broad, envisaging both that the remains might be of Leicester, the city of Leicester and the Richard III those of Richard III but also, as was thought last Society on an outstanding research project that has summer, that they might not be. Now that the exhumation brought history alive to so many.I note that the archaeology has been completed, it is the university of Leicester’s journal Current Archaeology has hailed the search for responsibility as holder of the licence to decide where Richard III as its archaeological project of the year. I the remains are finally laid to rest. That is the law. therefore congratulate all those who have been directly Much has been made, not least today, of the fact that or indirectly involved in the project on the remarkable the people of York want Richard III’s remains to be results that their work has achieved. buried in York, and I understand the strength of feeling The debate has concentrated on the licence. By way in York and in Yorkshire more widely. However, I of background, the Ministry of Justice has responsibility should make it clear that York minster has openly for burial law and policy. The law is old and well supported the reinterment of the remains in Leicester established. Under section 25 of the Burial Act 1857, cathedral. It is also right to point out that the default exhumation of human remains is permitted only with a position of the Church of England—the hon. Member licence from the Secretary of State. In this case the for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) made this project was a joint venture between the university of point—is that the remains should be interred at the Leicester, Leicester city council and the Richard III nearest Christian church, which in this case is Leicester Society and all three parties contributed towards the cathedral. excavation. All have, as I understand it, been involved in As I have said, the conditions of the licence were the application for the licence. The director of the widely drawn. They gave a wide discretion on where the university of Leicester archaeological services applied remains could be reinterred. The licence stated that for a licence on 31 August last year and it was granted “the remains shall be reinterred in a burial ground in which on 3 September. I emphasise that the application was interments may legally take place”. treated in the same way as any other archaeological Conditions of a licence can be amended, but that is application would be. Such applications do not require unusual. The university of Leicester could apply to vary the consent of the next of kin as they are invariably for the terms of the licence if it wanted to. However, the unnamed remains buried a long time ago. The Secretary broad terms of the licence allow it to reinter the remains of State has a broad discretion to issue exhumation effectively where it wants, with due regard to decency licences and may attach any conditions considered and the dignity of the deceased. It is right that the state appropriate. Those invariably include conditions on has an interest in that, but our interest must surely be where the remains should be reinterred, as well as that that there is a suitable location for the remains. I do not the remains should be treated with due care and attention think that the hon. Member for York Central is arguing to decency. In this case, as the hon. Member for York that Leicester cathedral would be unsuitable. He is Central made clear, the licence gave permission to exhume simply arguing that there may be a preferable site, which up to six sets of remains, one of which could be those of I entirely understand. King Richard III. The key point is that Leicester university has made it A project of this nature clearly required a significant clear that it is happy to receive representations on this degree of contingency planning. The director of the issue. Many of the hon. Gentleman’s points deserve project thought that it was unlikely that the king’s further consideration, and I hope and expect that those remains would be found. Nevertheless, the application at Leicester university with that responsibility will take carefully considered the various possibilities and what into account what he has said. We would be happy to would happen in the unlikely event that the remains facilitate a meeting between the people he identifies and were uncovered. It therefore indicated various options the university to enable that to happen. I am sure that for reburial, which were dependent on what was eventually we would all agree that wherever the king’s remains are found. finally laid to rest, they will belong not only to the The hon. Member for York Central made reference location, but to the whole nation. to the tests that were carried out. On 4 February, the announcement was made that the remains were indeed Mr Edward Leigh (in the Chair): Order. It seems that those of King Richard III, as it was put beyond reasonable poor Richard III is as controversial in death as in life. I doubt. In its application to the Secretary of State, the thank hon. Members for the dignified way they have university indicated that it intended to reinter the remains dealt with this difficult subject. in Leicester cathedral, which is one of the possible locations the licence mentions. The licence actually 11.30 am states that the remains are to be deposited Sitting suspended. 31WH 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 32WH Academies Forced Conversion of Schools to prescribing leeches for everything—arguing that it is a Academies sure-fire way of improving educational results. In fact, the evidence is mixed and clearly debatable, particularly when taking into account things such as changes in admission policies, pupil profiles and so on. We can [MRS ANNE MAIN in the Chair] believe the likes of Professor Gorard at the university of Birmingham, who sees no benefit from the academy 2.30 pm programme; or we can believe the DFE, which has quite a different view; or we can believe neither. However we John Pugh (Southport) (LD): It is a pleasure to serve cut it, the mooted effects of academisation appear not under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. to be exactly game changing. I do not know whether those present have ever had the privilege of reading Evelyn Waugh’s “Decline and Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con): Will my Fall,” but it starts with the main character, Paul hon. Friend tell me how academies that were good Pennyfeather, being debagged by something he refers to schools are coping with the opportunity for more freedom as the “Bollinger club” and having to leave Oxford in and independence? At the same time, there are frankly shameful circumstances after being caught running across awful academies that were forced into becoming academies the quad without his trousers. He subsequently takes up after being run by the local authority. a career as a school teacher after going to an agency—a thinly disguised version of what used to be called Gabbitas- John Pugh: There is a lot to be said for letting schools Thring—that tries to interest him in going to a school elect the structures they genuinely prefer and with which somewhere in Wales that is recommended to him as they can work. My hon. Friend may be illustrating in follows: advance some of the possible dangers of forcing schools “We class schools, you see, into four grades: Leading School, to make a choice they simply do not want to make. First Rate School, Good School, and School. Frankly”— My point is simpler. Academisation itself is not obviously says the man at the agency— fundamental to solving our biggest education problem “School is pretty bad.” in this country, which is the tale of boys from poorer We may be reaching a point where to confess to being a backgrounds losing interest before their education school, rather than an academy, might be seen as a sign concludes—the not in education, employment or training of failure. phenomenon. I do not intend to pursue the debate on I am relaxed about school types. On a personal note, academy outcomes, real or alleged, or, for that matter, I was educated in grammar schools. I taught for a short the difference between converter and sponsored academies, period in a secondary modern school, and for much which have chosen to be academies, and those academies longer periods I taught in an inner-city comprehensive that simply found themselves becoming academies, possibly school and a top-flight independent school, so I think I against their will. know a fair amount about school diversity. Instead, I simply want to point out the self-evident The result of my experience is that I am not particularly truth that I do not think anyone sane would dispute. impressed by the labels that schools bear, and I am Academies are not the only way to improve results, and fairly agnostic about their structures. However, I differ they are not necessarily the most efficient way to improve in that respect from most Ministers, of whatever political results in this cash-constrained world. That also applies persuasion, who seem preoccupied by structures, which to the Labour programme, which later in this debate interest me far less. The reason for that may be because might be distinguished from the current Government’s structures are, as far as the passing occupants of the programme. Department for Education are concerned, quite easy I clearly do not need to say much about the slush things to change. Frankly, on a wet Thursday afternoon funds the Government have found in surprisingly tough in an inner-city school, or in a rural school for that times to support the academy programme—I see that matter, with a class of difficult adolescents, the name on £1 billion has been found from somewhere or other—but the board outside the school, or the school’s governance I would like to draw attention to the National Audit structure, makes precious little difference to the reality Office report on the Labour academy programme, which inside the classroom. produced bright, shiny, new and very impressive buildings What does appear to make a difference is good school and institutions. The NAO compared the Labour academy leadership, committed staff, a relevant and inspiring programme with its predecessor, which was called excellence curriculum, a sound ethos and above all—this has been in cities, and it found that, although there were proved to be the principal determiner of educational improvements under the Labour programme, the success—parental involvement and interest. Those improvements were not significantly better than those ingredients are independent of governance structure. achieved by excellence in cities at a much lesser cost. They are not necessarily present in an academy, although We must accept that none of us comes to this debate I am prepared to acknowledge that some academies without in-built convictions and biases, so I will get exemplify those ingredients, and they are not necessarily some of mine out of the way by fessing up to them. I absent in other sorts of schools that happen not to be must acknowledge that I have a principled and ideological academies. My conclusion is that the best thing we can instinct against assets funded over many years by local do with a school that has all those characteristics is to taxpayers being alienated or removed from the direct support it and, so far as possible, not to tinker with it. control of local taxpayers. I have also never been sure There are some, quite a few of whom are around at how the lack of any local strategic oversight can be part the moment, who recommend academisation as a solution of a proper, efficient funding model for education in to all educational ills—it is rather like the old medics any area, which bothers me. And I have never been able 33WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 34WH Academies Academies to understand why the remedy for constant interference John Pugh: I do not think it will prevent them from by central Government, about which schools commonly becoming academies; I am just making the simple point complain, should be independence from local government, that primary schools have less instinct to become academies, given that local government’s powers in respect of schools simply because the administrative overheads of providing have declined dramatically over my lifetime. I do not all the services customarily provided by the local authority grasp why Government should impose less on those bear more heavily on their budgets, which in these schools for which it has sole charge than on those modern times are already significantly constrained. schools left under the umbrella of the local education I was trying to determine the basis for the psychic authority. I feel that the rationale eludes all but the most gifts that enabled the Secretary of State to anticipate brilliant among us. how many schools will become academies by a certain There is a strongly held view, which I accept—I date. I concluded that he probably does not have psychic accept it of the Government; I do not accept it as the gifts; he has a gift for irony, as the matter will probably best view—that being an academy is a good thing. But not be left to choice anyway. Throughout the land, even if we accept that view, there is still one more brokers are appearing in schools when the opportunity unexplained puzzle: if the Government are confident of arises to hasten things on and ensure that the targets are their case, and they are clearly unafraid of big-scale met. They show up when a school suffers even a temporary change, as we have seen, why do they not just make all decline in standards. A recent article in The Guardian by schools academies and make the case for abolishing George Monbiot—not a man I ordinarily agree or see LEAs, thereby ending the division, disruption and death eye to eye with—compared them to mediaeval tax by a thousand cuts? collectors. I happen to think that mediaeval tax collectors I have pondered that, and the only answer I can give performed an important social function; I do not necessarily is the answer the Government normally give, which is feel the same way about brokers. that they want schools to choose whether to be autonomous. Brokers appear to come to governing bodies with I understand that is the rhetoric surrounding the threats and an academy contract in hand. The threats programme, but as the programme has rolled out that are, “Sign the contract, or you, the governors, and particular answer has come to seem odder and odder. possibly the head teacher, will be replaced”, or “Choose First, choosing has been confined to a limited group of a sponsor, or if you don’t we’ll choose one for you, people. Parents and staff were excluded by the Academies which we may do anyway.” Act 2010, and during its passage I moved an amendment on the Floor of the House that sought to allow parents Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): To add to the some sort of voice, but the amendment was not supported. hon. Gentleman’s examples, a Department for Education So we moved from a position where parents decided to adviser said to a school in my constituency, “You lost one where only a limited number of people decide. your autonomy when you went into an Ofsted category. Secondly, the choice is constrained by the fact that Either you sign the papers to become an academy, or we opting for autonomous independence is linked to another will put in another interim executive board to do it for choice about funding, because the funding packages are you.” I wonder whether he has had similar experiences. not the same and depend on whether the school chooses to stay a local education authority school or become an John Pugh: I have had very similar experiences, but academy. Thirdly, the choice to be an academy is being they are not just my experiences. Reports are coming in linked with a choice to be inspected less and have less from up and down the land, and there is a kind of bureaucracy and prescription from Whitehall. What is similarity that makes them wholly plausible. actually involved in the choice argument is a skewed There is a hurry to get on with things. Schools are choice, vested in those who have the most to gain from basically told, “Get on with academisation now, or we making that choice in terms either of power, in the case will do it for you anyway.” They are also told—this of the governors, or of remuneration, in the case of the surprises me—“Don’t tell the parents or the staff until head teacher. Unsurprisingly, the choice to become an it actually happens. Consult with them afterwards.” To academy has gathered some momentum. That is the sweeten the pill, cash is sometimes promised, in the current state of play as we can best understand it. form of a changeover fund to accommodate change. However, the Secretary of State has gone one step Relief from inspection or the school’s current status is further and, with gifts bordering on the prophetic, has also promised: whatever pressure Ofsted or the LEA told us that by a certain date, a fixed number of academies apply will disappear when academy status is established. will be in place, with primary schools firmly within that More worryingly, I have evidence that sponsors have range. Primary schools are normally not big enough to been recommended, particularly school chains, with provide all the administration and back-up that whom individual brokers have prior connections. independence entails, so it is a puzzle to me how the Secretary of State could possibly know how many schools Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab): Can will choose of their own free will to become academies. I take the hon. Gentleman back to what he said before? I have had a number of schools that have received not Mr Turner: The hon. Gentleman is concerned about only that suggestion, but the message, “Don’t talk to the size of primary schools. I draw his attention to a the parents before everything is signed, sealed and school in Cheshire that had 12 pupils at the time when it delivered.” Is it not also strange that ministerial policy became a grant-maintained school. When grant-maintained is that Members of Parliament should be told about schools were abolished, it had about 36 pupils. Size did academisation only after the funding agreement has not prevent schools from becoming grant-maintained been signed, thereby removing any chance for democratically schools; why should it prevent them from becoming elected Members of Parliament to advise, consult with academies? the school or have any say in what is about to happen? 35WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 36WH Academies Academies John Pugh: Yes, that is distressing. The hon. Gentleman one that tried to opt out before but failed to secure is a witness to the fact that we have moved from a parental support—was subsequently inspected by Ofsted; situation in which parents were allowed a vote to one in our first academy was put into special measures and the which parents do not have a voice. head teacher and chairman of governors have now I would like to draw attention to the well documented gone. The brokers are now in Sefton and, having failed fact that some of the brokers’ behaviour is markedly to tempt the more prestigious schools, are pouncing like aggressive. One governor of fairly robust temperament vultures not necessarily on the weakest but on those described a broker as “seriously scary”. I find the temporarily weakened. process appalling. Regardless of what one feels about the academy programme, I find it distressing that people I understand that there is a rationale for that, and I who have the interests of children and their schools at do not want to be unkind to Government policy. Schools heart feel that they have been put in that situation. It must be in certain categories, failing or failing to improve, strikes me that it is bullying. The intention is to close the and in such circumstances arguably someone must intervene. contract and sign it there and then, which is the worst The categories, however, have in practice been extended kind of sharp salesmanship, if I can put it like that. It is beyond the permanent sink schools or those that are obviously wide open to corruption; it is about making sinking. In one case in Sefton, an otherwise good school offers that people cannot refuse, straight out of the Vito had four heads in six years, which caused temporary Corleone textbook. I see absolutely no reason why we instability over a short period, but the school and the who wish to stop bullying in schools allow the bullying authority could deal with that. In another case, to of schools. which the hon. Gentleman alluded earlier, in the school I attended as a child, there was a temporary and wholly Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): Fortunately, we uncharacteristic blip and a firm expectation that the have the Minister with responsibility for bullying here, school would improve with or without academy status. so she can deal with any accusations of bullying. None of the bullied schools, for that is what they feel they are, has a poor record over time. Even if they had, Surely the hon. Gentleman is being completely unfair what is the case for cutting the umbilical cord with a to the Government. Did he read the article by Warwick local authority that has a clear record of improving its Mansell in The Guardian yesterday? It quoted Tim schools? What is the case for encouraging the schools, Crumpton, a councillor in Dudley, who said that after as was done, to seek sponsors some appreciable distance he made accusations of bullying, he received a letter away? A school in the northern part of Sefton was from the Department saying: asked to look at a sponsor in Chester or in Bolton, or to “We carried out a thorough investigation and found no basis in consider a chain. the claims.” Does that satisfy the hon. Gentleman? I run out of any coherent educational rationale when encountering arguments to suggest that a change in John Pugh: I am sure that the Department took the leadership will help a school whose main problem is broker’s word for it. What I am describing has been told that it has had too many changes in leadership; that is to me by people I have known for some time, who have when my brain starts to hurt. What appears to have no axe to grind and whom I trust. happened is that academies have become ends in themselves, I feel particularly aggrieved about my area. Under not a means to an end. Instead of academies being a previous regimes, not a single school in Sefton ever means to school improvement, success is measured by opted out. We had two ballots, both of which were lost. the number of academies, not their products. Can the There were good reasons. Sefton was one of the first Minister confirm whether new secondary schools converting LEAs to give schools true financial independence to will not only be paid for attracting pupils—for success—but pioneer; in fact, I was on the local authority at the time. be given an under-occupancy payment of £18,000 for It has kept its central costs low. It has always prioritised three years for failing to attract pupils? In the old days, I education and schools. It stands favourable comparison am not sure what the Audit Commission which taxed us with other LEAs. Its schools are good and, better still, about surplus places would have had to say about that; there are good relations between the LEA and the fortunately, we have taken the precaution of abolishing it. schools, which themselves cluster together harmoniously and supportively. There is a genuine communitarian The Government can go further; if they want, they spirit, accompanied by good results. To make things can lower the threshold for intervention, they can extend more acutely painful, Sefton has a good record, praised and widen the categories, or they can put pressure—heaven by the Schools Minister, for improving its schools; it is forbid—on Ofsted to toughen up the regime, or make it in the top five of LEAs. more partial or timed to suit the academy bounty hunters. There is a real worry that the neutrality of Bill Esterson: I am glad that the hon. Gentleman Ofsted might be under pressure and, equally, there is a made the point about how good Sefton is, because we worry about Ofsted’s reliability. If it delivered a rogue both represent constituencies in the borough. I, too, inspection, as it occasionally will, given the nature of have experience of how good the schools are. Does he things, that could have significant consequences for any agree that when people have such a good education school that is the victim of such an inspection. The authority, it should be allowed to support its own broker who came to Sefton was asked by a head teacher schools to improve, rather than having this forced what would happen if an academy chosen to sponsor a academisation? school was failed by Ofsted. The broker said that that will not happen. I do not know how the broker could John Pugh: That is clearly an option, because we in know that it would not happen but clearly, if so, that Sefton are not overly impressed by academies. The first seems to indicate that Ofsted is more shackled than we school to be awarded academy status—coincidentally, believe or hope it is. 37WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 38WH Academies Academies I cannot explain this whole situation educationally 2.59 pm any more, although I have sincerely tried. I have run out of any educational rationale that makes sense to me. I Guy Opperman (Hexham) (Con): Thank you, Mrs Main. can explain it only sociologically. I hazard a guess—it I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Southport might be right—that Ministers neither like nor understand (John Pugh) on securing this debate. I have to confess and do not empathise with councils; they simply think that the problem in Northumberland is not that the that the sort of people you get on councils should county councils are being bullied by the Government manage or interfere with the nation’s schools. That is a but, rather, that the county councils are bullying the possible view, if slightly prejudiced, but it not wholly schools. incomprehensible if you look at some of the more The reality of the situation is that Northumberland eccentric London boroughs. It is understandable that if has few academies; my constituency does not have a you have achieved a good education in an independent single one. We must ask why. All of us, of course, want school, and contrast that with those with a less fortunate our children to receive the best possible education, or privileged outcome, you might think— whether at an academy or a maintained school. The great William Yeats described education as the lighting Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. I have been of a fire, and the question that follows is how best to quite tolerant with the hon. Gentleman, but he keeps achieve that. accusing me of doing so many things, in particular in In Northumberland, we have a three-tier system, of London boroughs, that I would appreciate it if he spoke which I am an unadulterated supporter, particularly in through the Chair. a rural context, but at the heart of the issue for John Pugh: I am sorry; I was talking about any Northumberland is a middle school. The Minister is a individual, not you in particular, Mrs Main. I will small hero of Hexham middle school, which I visited express myself in whatever way you find appropriate. two weeks ago to meet Mrs Parker and her three star pupils, Elizabeth Nixon, Amy Hawke and Anisha Bannister, One—I think that is all right—might suppose that all of whom wrote to the Minister requesting a change what is crucial to the success of education is the of mathematical calculation, from chunking to long independence of the school. That is an understandable division. They are deeply pleased that she listened to view. It is a simplistic and probably wrong view, but I their pleas and are looking forward to meeting her when can understand people taking it and it providing them I bring them and their teacher to the House in the near with the motive for feeling that academies are an all- future. sufficient solution. Another interpretation might be that there is an I welcome the chance to debate academies today. unstated plot to reorganise schools into private chains Surely it cannot be a bad thing that they can set pay and rather than in LEAs; if so, we could legitimately debate conditions, deviate if necessary from the national that at some point. It is likely that many primary curriculum, change the length of terms and school schools, if they become academies, will form part of days, reduce classroom sizes, introduce new disciplinary chains. There is nothing particularly wrong with chains, techniques, target resources to the most appropriate and there have been great ones in the past: Blue Coat areas, and allow the school to be run by head teachers schools, Merchant Taylors’ schools, the Woodard and governors rather than by a local authority, which, foundation, Haberdashers’ Aske’s schools and so on; in my case, is some 50 or 60 miles away. That is my and, in the state system, organisations such as the opinion, but I could give my hon. Friend the Member Christian Brothers, or the Salesian or Notre Dame for Southport ample examples, including the Harris schools. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with chains; Federation, the schools in Newcastle, and ARK Schools, they are often founded for the poor but usually end up which runs more than 18 separate academies throughout serving the rich. The model is particularly in favour the country. Since they took over those schools, grades with the Minister responsible for academies, Lord Nash, have gone up by more than 200%, and the standard and who I understand supports a chain of some sorts himself. quality of education have improved immeasurably. Local people are voting with their feet and deluging those In the past, however, huge gains to the educational schools with applications. system were not achieved by virtue of the state handing people 125-year leases; normally, it was done by That is why I deem it unfortunate that, contrary to philanthropists digging deep into their pockets. If there my hon. Friend’s assertions, Northumberland schools is a real agenda, and such motivations are genuinely are not being forced to convert to academies. They are behind the strange set of phenomena we are seeing at being preventing from converting. I will give three specific the moment, I am happy to debate that. Let us not, examples. Allendale middle school was a failing school, however, have this forced choice, with underhand persuasion and the council chose to close it instead of converting it and inducement. to a sponsored academy. It will close in the autumn, notwithstanding the assurance from the former Under- In my years as a teacher, the worst sort of bullying Secretary of State for Education, Lord Hill, who said was not the stuff that one saw and could stop but the that stuff that was not seen and took place away from view. If nothing else, through this debate I hope to bring the “there is substantial evidence that sponsored Academy status is bullying of schools, rather than in schools, to people’s the best way to transform such underperforming schools and attention. make sure that we achieve a lasting solution to underperformance”. Similarly, Haltwhistle middle school has chosen to go Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Before I call other down the path towards academy status, but it is being hon. Members to speak, I inform Members that I will prevented from doing so by the county council’s approach be calling the wind-ups at 3.40 pm. I ask Members to on pensions. That is what I want to address in my last keep interventions brief please. I call Guy Opperman. few minutes today.In Northumberland, the county council 39WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 40WH Academies Academies [Guy Opperman] of our children’s education at its core. I am not idealistically opposed to academies. I believe that for some schools is requiring an extra pension contribution from an the academy option is in their best interests, but I do not academy, of between 12% and 26%, whereas for a believe that it is the only option for school provision in standard maintained school in the UK the average the country, and schools should not be intimidated and pension fund contribution for teachers earning less bullied into being academies. than £75,000 is approximately 8%. There is no financial Today, I want to speak up for schools in west Lancashire justification for the measure, and no other county in the and throughout the county, which has become an enclave country is following that course of action. Either the of resistance against the Secretary of State’s absolutism council’s pension fund panel is driving that unfair proposal on academies. Throughout Lancashire, head teachers, forward to prevent schools from becoming academies, governors, teacher unions, Members of Parliament and or the council is fundamentally opposed to academy even the Conservative-controlled county council have status. There can be no other reason, except that it been steadfast in their opposition to the deplorable would like to obtain greater sums from a would-be antics of the Department for Education, and in their academy than from a maintained school. rejection of academies for academies’ sake, and I support The position is set out in a communication between them in that. the Secretary of State for Communities and Local In recent weeks, there has been significant media Government and the Secretary for State for Education comment about the conduct and behaviour of the in December 2011, which stated that Department for Education in its promotion of the “the overall costs for the Academy as a participant in the Scheme academies programme, and it seems that the experience should not increase” in Lancashire is being replicated throughout the country and they following a certain pattern. It starts with creating a “should not be treated in the LGPS less favourably than maintained myth about failing schools in an area, irrespective of schools.” the truth behind the headlines. Then come the threats Given that advice from the two Secretaries of State, I that underperforming schools will have to become tabled a parliamentary question to which the Minister academies. When that fails, the bribes start. for Schools, my right hon. Friend the Member for It seems that the same approach is being taken in Yeovil (Mr Laws) replied, on 29 October: Lancashire as in one of the areas that is continuing to “my right hon. Friends the Secretaries of State for Education and resist all attempts by Whitehall to foist academies on for Communities and Local Government made it clear that no them. In the middle of last year, threats were dished academy should pay unjustifiably higher employer pension out, and in July 2012, the county received a visit from contributions than maintained schools in their area”.—[Official Dr Liz Stillwell. Ahead of the visit, a press release was Report, 29 October 2012; Vol. 552, c. 15.] issued that stated boldly and aggressively that With several head teachers and governors from “weaker schools across” Northumberland, I then met the Minister and a Minister from the Department for Communities and Local Lancashire Government on 17 December. As yet, nothing has “should aspire to the success” changed. Some schools that want to become academies of the academy she was visiting that day, and that poor or are budgeting for the year ahead are facing larger standards of primary education in Lancashire would no pension contributions than those of their competitors longer be tolerated. That press release listed the schools and than those which they themselves previously enjoyed. that the Department deemed were underperforming, In those circumstances, either there is an impact on and four primary schools in west Lancashire were on their financial calculations because they are paying the hit list. I spoke to each of the head teachers, who larger contributions, or they are refusing to become were surprised—even astonished—to be on that list. academies when that is what head teachers, governors They accepted there had been a blip, but both the LEA and local parents want, because they are worried about and the Department accepted that the performance of the larger contributions. the schools was improving. Therefore, against the One Northumberland school governor said: Department’s measures, the schools were not failing. “We are being drained of funds by this issue, and it is draining The schools commissioner travels around the county, away the optimism we had when we converted to an Academy”. peddling the Education Secretary’s ideological wares as That is a crying shame. Academies are a fantastic if she was some kind of snake oil saleswoman. With her opportunity to help to turn poorly performing schools half-truths and misinformation, she leaves fear and around, but the failure to resolve the issue is holding instability in her wake among communities. Surely, she back schools in Northumberland. should be absolutely committed to supporting all types of school to improve their standards and performance. She should not be forcing schools down a path that may 3.6 pm not be in the best interests of their children. Rosie Cooper (West Lancashire) (Lab): It is a pleasure, Mrs Main, to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon. Mr Andrew Turner: One problem is what we mean by I congratulate the hon. Member for Southport (John a blip. How long were the blips? Were they one year, two Pugh), my neighbouring MP, on securing this important years or five years? Five years is a lifetime for a child. and crucial debate. The ideological crusade that the Secretary of State Rosie Cooper: I can assure the hon. Gentleman that it for Education seems to be on with his academies programme is nothing like five years. I would be happy to supply is deeply concerning, and offensive to the education him with the detail. There are four schools involved, profession. I do not believe that it has the best interests and each is different. 41WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 42WH Academies Academies The situation in areas such as Lancashire has £25,000 for legal costs. That approach to academisation been manufactured under the pretext of improving is deplorable, and it is all being done because of the underperforming schools. That raises the question why ideological war being waged by the Education Secretary. the National Audit Office report stated: Our ambition and aspiration should always be to “most converters…have been outstanding and good schools”. ensure that our children have access to the best possible In a letter to me on 31 January, the chief executive of standards of education from the start to the end of their Conservative-controlled Lancashire county council wrote: school life. Simply forcing schools to become academies is not the solution. We know that one-size-fits-all policy “we do not understand why some rapidly improving schools are making does not work. In our schools, we need good, being targeted for academy conversion.” strong leadership from the head teacher and governing We are back to the myth-creating: everyone is told a bodies, with investment in schools buildings and school school is failing, when the truth is that it had a blip and resources, irrespective of whether the school is LEA its performance is improving. We are then told to make controlled or an academy. There should be a consensus it an academy, and, in a couple of years, it is claimed among parents, teachers, governors and the community that the success is the result of academisation. We are about the type of school they want; that decision should encouraged to ignore the good work and the fact that not be forced on the community. the improvement would probably have happened anyway. I agree that we need to ensure that all schools reach From the safety of Westminster, the Education Secretary the required standards. However, we should do so based has called Conservative-controlled Lancashire county on the needs of the individual school and its children, council a “failing education authority”. That makes me not on the imposition of a one-size-fits-all model driven wonder on what basis he claims that it is failure. I am by ideology. I am sure the Minister has come here today sure he would say it is performance. However, he is replete with the usual lines about school improvement, probably referring to the academy conversion rate. education for the 21st century and investment, but I remind her that we are talking about the forced conversion Let us look at performance. Some 69% of schools in of schools into academies. Lancashire have improved, compared with the national average of 29%, and that is to be commended. However, My message to the Minister is this: nobody believes according to the Secretary of State, the academy conversion you. As each day passes, fewer and fewer people believe rate in Lancashire is just 3%, compared with the national you. average of 9%. Is that the source of his frustration? Just Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): Order. I am sure the four out of 484 Lancashire primary schools have chosen hon. Lady does not mean to imply that nobody believes to become academies, while three others are in the me; I think she means that nobody believes the Minister, process of being forced to become academies. although she may wish to say that in the most parliamentary In November, the Education Secretary wrote to MPs way possible. to ask them to do his bidding by getting our schools to Rosie Cooper: My apologies. It is certainly catching become academies. I doubt whether he will be welcomed today. with open arms by Conservative candidates campaigning in the forthcoming county council elections in Lancashire. My message to the Minister is that nobody believes her. As each day passes, fewer and fewer people believe Let me be clear: failure and unacceptable performance her. For most schools—certainly in Lancashire—the in our schools cannot and should not be tolerated. By answer to her academies is still a resounding no. I the same token, however, the sustained and cynical implore you: please stop bullying, stop the bribery and denigration of the hard work of our schools and get back to supporting all schools and all children. schoolchildren should not be tolerated, simply because those schools are not academies. Perhaps the Department Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): I call Mr David Ward, for Education, to refer to comments made earlier, should who I am sure is not accusing me of bullying or bribing apply its anti-bullying policies to itself and its agents. anyone. All the evidence points to a Department that is ideologically wedded to the promotion of academies for 3.17 pm all, rather than the best education for all. In our education Mr David Ward (Bradford East) (LD): Thank you for system, only 10% of all state schools are academies and calling me to speak, Mrs Main. I thank my hon. Friend free schools, and the figure for primary schools is only the Member for Southport (John Pugh) for initiating 5.3%. Yet one third of Department for Education staff the debate. are assigned to the academies and free schools programme, It is not too much of a secret, certainly in some which accounts for 18% of the Department’s revenue quarters, that I am not a great fan of academies. I and capital budget—a level completely disproportionate opposed them under the previous Government, and I to the size of the programme. Then we come to the oppose the academy regime under this Government. £1 billion overspend. No doubt that money is being Within a few months of coming into the House of taken from the budgets for non-academy schools, many Commons, I voted against the Academies Bill. That was of which most need that investment. for a couple of reasons. First, many supporters of The whole situation is compounded by the Gove academies, who want to push for academy status, are army of brokers. Given that they earn up to £700 a day, seeking to control admissions. For them, it is about who some might suggest they are more like mercenaries. I goes into the school, not what goes on in the school. would suggest they are conflicted mercenaries, because In a private meeting with the Secretary of State, I many are alleged to have connections to academy chains. said, “You should be far more radical and make every These conflicted mercenaries—these brokers—are running school an academy in terms of some of the freedoms round the country offering inducements of £40,000, plus that are proposed.” However, for those who support 43WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 44WH Academies Academies [Mr David Ward] ago. If someone went to a local estate agency 10 or 15 years ago, the window would have adverts stating academies, and who are pushing for them, that would that properties were close to the school. The school was not really work, because the secret of academies is that one of the largest and most successful in the Bradford some schools are academies and some are not. Alongside district and it was why people moved into that area, but freedoms in relation to conditions of service and so on, it has had a difficult time. It was not so long ago that the there would need to be some control over admissions, head teacher of that school, before retirement, was the which would defeat the purpose of going to academy executive head of another school that was failing and status for many sponsors, and the same applies to free has now become successful. I was chair of governors at schools. a school that was in special measures, and it became the I am opposed to the academies also because there is first secondary school in Bradford to be rated as an overemphasis on the impact that the structure will outstanding. All that was done without academy status have on raising achievement and attainment in schools. and on the basis of interventions by an extremely good It is interesting that many of the new academies have head teacher, who was able, through a new management not taken up some of the new freedoms: they have team, to turn the school around. taken the money and stayed, rather than taking the In Bradford, a secondary partnership has been money and running with the new freedoms. Another established. The whole principle behind it has been to reason for my opposition is that I always want, as offer support to other schools and negate the need for Stephen Covey said, to academy conversions. The partnership was formed about “Begin with the end in mind.” 18 months ago and all 28 secondary schools from the If something works, generally speaking it is okay. I do district are involved and pay an annual subscription to not feel that there are too many strong, politically join. It involves developing a rigorous system of different issues or matters of principle. Most of them performance review.It will provide effective school-to-school are about what works in a situation, with some fundamental support and deliver school-led professional development. underpinning of values. I am not clear where the evidence Those schools do not need to be academies. There are is for academies. In a sitting of the Education Committee other ways forward that do not require a change to a a few weeks ago, I asked the Secretary of State whether school’s structure. he believed in evidence-based policy and he said that he Ideology has been mentioned a few times, but I do very much does, but I do not see any evidence for that. not think that is the issue. It is about ego. All schools The success of the academies project seems—my can be improved, but it takes time and requires hard hon. Friend the Member for Southport referred to work. It is not glamorous and a slog is involved. It takes this—to be judged by how many academies there are. 18 months to two years to get the right people in place That has almost become an end in itself. There has been to turn a school around, but where is the glamour in much talk about needing to convert. A school is in a that for a Secretary of State who needs to be seen to do particular situation, and the idea of need is always dramatic things? Where is the glamour in that hard introduced; but it does not mean the school will benefit graft that happens day in, day out up and down the from a conversion. The evidence base is not there. The country in turning around schools that need to improve? idea is that the school needs to convert because it meets The problem is that that egocentric project comes the criteria; but it is the Secretary of State who sets the with a cost. The House of Commons Library briefing criteria. It is like saying, “I will decide when it is raining, shows the actual cost involved in investing in the schools and I will decide what to wear in the rain.” He is doing and bribing them to take up academy status, as well as the same, because he is saying, “I will decide the criteria the opportunity cost of the money that is not available and whether they have been met.” That is the same idea for other schools. It is frankly sickening to see schools as, “There is a need to put on a coat when it is raining; it in Bradford unable to afford basic repairs while a bottomless is raining so we need to put a coat on.” The false logic pit of money appears to be available to support the free behind the whole academies programme is: “An intervention schools and academies programme. That programme is is needed and an academy is an intervention, so you a costly distraction—devoid of evidence—from the principal need an academy.” It is all false logic. Using a coat when concern of an authority, which is to raise educational it rains is an intervention, but it is not the only form of achievement and attainment through the well-established intervention and there is no evidence that that intervention methods that already exist for turning schools around is the one that would work. and providing the quality education that pupils need There are all sorts of interventions, which could and deserve. include setting up an academy—but where is the evidence? Local authority support would be a possibility: many authorities are not, as has been suggested, dreadful, and 3.28 pm are effective at providing support. The intervention may Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab): It is a be a new head for the existing school. It may be an pleasure, Mrs Main, to be under your chairmanship integrated post-inspection plan, or an interim executive this afternoon. I think I agree with some of what board to turn the school around. There is evidence to everyone has said, but not all that anyone has said, show that all those interventions work in certain which makes for an interesting debate. I am grateful to circumstances. They all have an evidence base, but there the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) for securing is no evidence that the academy structure works. It is it. One point on which I agree with him is that there is a false logic. danger of the academies programme being seen as an In my constituency in Bradford, there are two schools end in itself, rather than as a means to an end. It is that that are going through intervention academy conversions. point on intended and unintended consequences that I My two sons went to one of those schools many years wanted to address. 45WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 46WH Academies Academies I will explain where I am coming from on the issue by Other schools have been pressurised; indeed, one is reference to my constituency. I had a quick tot up and I being pressurised at the moment, and I use the phrase have nine secondary schools in my constituency, including advisedly. There are primary schools in my constituency one that is 100 yards outside. They range from leading that have effectively been told that their only option is independent schools, such as Latymer Upper school to become an academy. I feel that in some cases, those and St Paul’s Girls’ school, to leading Catholic schools, schools are set up to fail, and they are not given the such as Sacred Heart high school and London Oratory, requisite support. Perhaps a head teacher leaves, there is which former Prime Ministers and current party leaders a temporary head for a year or two, and the school is seem keen to send their children to. There is also the allowed to drift into special measures. I am not going to West London free school, which was set up Toby Young, name particular schools—I do not want to name schools and two academies that were part of the Labour that are having difficulties—but I see that pattern repeated, Government’s academies programme: Burlington Danes and it is not what a local authority should be doing. It academy, which is a new build, and Hammersmith should be supporting all its schools, including those for academy. There are two outstanding—I should say that which it is not directly responsible. all those that are subject to Ofsted inspection are We had a £33 million investment programme—at the outstanding—community schools: William Morris school, moment, that is quite a big programme—over two years which is a sixth-form school that I helped set up 20 years for primary schools, yet all that money was directed to ago and am a governor of, and Phoenix high school, voluntary-aided schools, free schools or academies, for which is run by Sir William Atkinson, who is a famous new build, refurbishment, conversion or expansion as head teacher, known across the country. may be, despite the fact that very successful community The reason I mentioned those is because there is a schools also wish to expand and see investment put into vast range of schools, and I do not discriminate between them. I object to those double standards and to not any of them. I go to them all, invite their pupils here having a level playing field. I have to ask who the and I am very proud to have every single one of them in ideologues are in this case, and I am afraid that they are my constituency. I am particularly proud of the two particularly centred around the Secretary of State for academies and indeed, I helped to set them up, under Education. the previous Labour Government. It is a shame that the None of that would matter if there were no adverse £50 million that went into those was not replicated by consequences, but let me explain some of the consequences. the Building Schools for the Future programme being First, there will be a perception—it may be a reality, but continued, so that community schools could also have it is certainly a perception—that we are creating a benefited. two-tier system in education, in which academies are the preferred type of schools. Parents will therefore What I find surprising is the attitude of—I have to gravitate, reasonably and understandably, towards those call them this—the ideologues in the Department for schools, because they believe that the schools will be Education and in some Conservative local councils, preferred—with money, resources or simply the attention including my own. They take it to be their mission to that they receive from local education authorities and ensure that there is academisation wherever possible, the DFE. That then leads to a form of separate without regard to the reasons why they are doing it. I development. A number of academies are now for hope that from what I have said it is clear that I have no pupils aged three to 18, and they therefore monopolise particular beef about whether a school is an academy children within an area. Equally, I have noticed a trend or not. All those schools are doing well in their own whereby secondary academies will select—particularly way. if they are in the same group—from their primary feeder schools, so it may be that there is no longer an I can best illustrate that by reference to ARK Schools, interchange between primary schools in that way. I am which is a well known academy chain, and is the governing beginning to get a lot of complaints from parents of foundation for Burlington Danes academy, which, children in community primary schools who might historically, has been a grammar school, a successful want to send their children to secondary academies, and comprehensive school, and a Church of England school. they find that they are refused or are a long way down It is now an ARK academy and I was part of ensuring the waiting list. that that happened. On the back of that, west London is now populated by a dozen-plus new ARK schools, I also fear that there is a possibility of politicisation and again, I have no particular objection to that. I was of the academy system down the road. There is a strong at one of the primary schools last week—ARK Conway association between the academy system and not only primary academy—opening the new library. Conservative local authorities, but Conservative funders, peers and so on. Lord Nash has been mentioned. Lord What I have difficulty with, however, is the attitude of Fink, who I think is still the Tory party treasurer, was Conservative local authorities, who, whenever they see the chairman of ARK, and he is the chairman of one of a possibility in relation to an existing community school, the schools in my constituency. Both of those gentlemen pressurise that school into becoming an ARK academy. are very substantial funders of the Conservative party. We had an early example of that with Kenmont primary One of them, Lord Nash—or rather, his wife, Lady school in my constituency. The head left, which is a Nash—was the principal funder of my opponent at the perfectly normal thing to happen. The local authority last election. It is a free country. Anyone can do as they then said that it could not afford to employ a new head wish, but the association of particular schools, chains and that the school would therefore have to become an of schools and individuals with a particular political ARK academy. It was only because the parents and party is not healthy in education. I see that as another governors objected—in the end, a new head was recruited branch of the politicisation and there is the real prospect —that that did not happen, and it is now, once again, a of our moving—with every pronouncement that comes very successful community primary school. out of Government or those close to Government—to 47WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 48WH Academies Academies [Mr Andy Slaughter] I also congratulate the hon. Member for Hexham (Guy Opperman) on his speech. He managed to turn it profit-making schools. If another Conservative Government into a bit of a debate about pensions, which might be a were elected, we would see that trend continue, and I separate issue from what we are discussing today, but he think that would be extremely regrettable. did show his erudition by quoting Yeats. I, too, will This is not an easy issue to deal with; it is not black quote some Yeats: and white in any way. As I hope I made very clear at the “Turning and turning in the widening gyre beginning, I support every school in my constituency. I The falcon cannot hear the falconer; have a good relationship with ARK. I find it slightly Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; troubling that soon it will be almost the size of a local Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world”. education authority, spread across some west London boroughs, because it does not have the same democratic In some of what is going on with the forced academisation accountability as LEAs. However, I do not blame ARK. debate, there is a problem with the falconer not knowing It may be a willing recipient of the Government’s largesse, what the falcon is getting up to out and about in the but I place the blame squarely where it lies: in the field. I will also come back to that point. tram-line attitude and the “Go for academies at all My hon. Friend the Member for West Lancashire costs” policy that infects the DFE at the moment. With (Rosie Cooper) described what she called snake-oil hindsight, in years to come, I think that that will be seen salesmen in relation to forced academisation. The hon. as a very retrograde, ideological and divisive step. Member for Bradford East (Mr Ward) said that this Whether individual schools are achieving for individual policy was not so much ideological as egotistical on the pupils is clearly important, but as Members of Parliament, part of the Secretary of State for Education and that he we have to look after the interests and welfare of all the needed to be seen to be doing something dramatic, schools in our constituencies, and that certainly ought which explained his actions. It reminds me a bit of the to be the role played by LEAs and the DFE as well. I do goalkeeper’s dilemma during a penalty shoot-out. not see that happening—I do not see the even-handed Statistically it is proven that, very often, to stand still is approach that will embrace and encourage community the best thing to do during a penalty shoot-out, but if schools, in the same way that I see that when those in the goalkeeper does that and the opposition scores, they the preferred or favoured categories are dealt with. are roundly criticised. If, however, the goalkeeper dives in completely the wrong direction and the opposition Guy Opperman: With the hon. Gentleman’s experience scores, they are praised for at least having a go. Perhaps of ARK, does he not accept that in even his own that explains the phenomenon that the hon. Gentleman constituency—I do not extend the point to all other described. ARK schools around the country—when ARK has My hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith gone in and schools have become academies, they have (Mr Slaughter) told us about his own experience, including transformed the education? Without knowing his helping to set up academies in his constituency, and constituency, I suggest that all the schools ARK has about his fear of politicisation and of profit-making gone into have had a successful outcome. Surely that is schools. I recently met colleagues from Sweden, who the point. described to me the utter disaster of profit-making schools—free schools—in Sweden. The impact has been Mr Slaughter: I make it clear that I am absolutely not to lower standards because of the race to the bottom criticising ARK as an educational institution. The answer that profit-making schools entail. Also, Sweden has had is that it has had some remarkable successes and some to reinstate a requirement for teachers to be properly partial successes. Some successes have not been quite so qualified in free schools, because of that race to the big, and in some cases, it is too early to say. That is bottom for low-paid staff and maximising profit. That true—it is exactly why I started with a slightly self-indulgent has happened in free schools in Sweden, so there is a tour round my constituency—and I could say the same lesson for us there as well. thing about many other schools and different types of schools there. That is not the point I am making. The This debate is about forced academisation. Let me point that I thought I was making—I will make it say at the outset that I am a supporter of academies and slightly more clearly—is that the concentration and have been throughout my 12 years in the House of fixation on a particular type of school and giving Commons. Of course, the genesis for the academies schools of that type a privileged status will undoubtedly programme under the previous, Labour Government have an unbalancing effect on education across the was to launch a direct assault on the double disadvantage piece. That is the mistake that the Government are of social and economic deprivation. Our concern about making. the current Government’s academies programme is not about the freedoms that can be granted—that come along with academy status—but about the loss of focus 3.40 pm on under-performing schools in areas of high social and Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab): I congratulate economic deprivation and the fact that that might result the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) on securing in the positive impact of the academies programme the debate. He gave us a thoughtful and philosophical being diluted. I worry that the principal foundations for discourse, as ever, on forced academisation. Interestingly, the success of the early academies—collaboration and he described what he saw as bullying going on within partnership—have been replaced by what other hon. the system. I will come back to that. He also introduced Members have talked about here today, a fixation on us to the interesting concept of an under-occupancy the numbers game. That is what we are seeing at the subsidy for some types of school that the Government moment. It explains why we are having this debate on are currently promoting. I am sure that we will hear forced academisation today. It is all about numbers, more about that in the future. rather than standards. 49WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 50WH Academies Academies I am not wedded to any particular model for the way doubt after further efforts have been made to undermine in which schools should be run. As a former teacher the efforts being made by the school to operate as part myself, I agree with the hon. Member for Southport of an education improvement partnership to raise standards that the structure makes very little difference. We know in the school. That is happening around the country. I what makes a good school; we know what factors are have also been told that in the same area, one head involved in that, and there is plenty of research to show teacher has seen a gagging clause put into their contract, it. I do not think that there are many people, either—there having been forced out of a school as part of this may be some here—who think that local authorities process. should directly run all state-funded schools these days. It is all very well, under the cloak of standards, to go A lot of us agree that local authorities did not always do around to schools and offer them an opportunity to a particularly good job of running local schools in consider academisation—the sponsored academy approach. many cases in the past, but just because a job was not That can be entirely appropriate on many occasions, always done well does not mean that there is not a job but the bullying behaviour—we are hearing, and I am that needs to be done. There is a job that needs to be receiving, more and more accounts of it—is very worrying. done at local level in relation to our schools, and that I therefore want the Minister to answer a few questions focus is being lost by the current Government with this about that. How many schools does she know of that numbers game that they are fixated on. have successfully resisted forced academisation procedures? I welcome the Minister who will reply to the debate. How are the academy advisers recruited? How are they It is a shame that the Minister for Schools is not rewarded? Is it true that they are on a payment-by-results replying to it. I know that responsibility for this subject regime? I hope that the Minister will answer this question lies in the House of Lords, but it would be good to have particularly. Is there any code of conduct for those the Schools Minister here to reply to the debate, because people as to how they should behave? As the Minister he could then explain why he supports the current with responsibility for the issue of bullying, will she give policy when he said in his manifesto at the last election us an absolute assurance that if there is one, she will that he wanted to publish it, and that if there is not one currently, she will “replace Academies with our own model of ‘Sponsor-Managed ensure that one is available? I ask that because some of Schools’. These schools will be commissioned by and accountable the behaviour that is being described— to local authorities and not Whitehall”. That was his policy previously, which perhaps explains Guy Opperman rose— why he never fronts up on this subject as Schools Minister and turns up to debate it. I would welcome his Kevin Brennan: I do not have time to give way I am doing that in the future. afraid. I would otherwise, but I want the Minister to be able to answer. However, I am glad that we have the hon. Lady here Given the behaviour that is being described, if there to answer on behalf of the Government about the is a code of conduct, it is obviously not being adhered worrying reports that we are receiving from around the to in any acceptable way. Is it acceptable to insist on country. Despite my intervention earlier about yesterday’s meeting heads alone, not allowing them to have other article by Warwick Mansell in The Guardian, there people with them? Do the advisers have targets? To seems to be a growing number of reports from around whom are they accountable? What evidence is there that the country about bullying behaviour by the individuals forced academisation raises standards? We do not have who are being sent round by the Department for Education much time and I want to give the Minister the chance to to bring about forced academisation of schools. answer the questions. Why has the Department backed Last year I visited a group of schools that had down in the face of a legal challenge from Coventry formed an education improvement partnership. One of council about forced academisation? Will she undertake the primary school head teachers in it was desperate to to ban gagging orders on heads who are forced out of tell me about her experience with what some people their jobs and introduce transparency into the process? locally have described as gauleiters being sent out by the Department for Education. What she told me made my 3.50 pm jaw drop. She told me that when the adviser from the Department turned up, she was told that she had to The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education meet them and that no one else was to be present. When (Elizabeth Truss): I congratulate my hon. Friend the she objected to that, she was told that perhaps at a Member for Southport (John Pugh) on securing the stretch she might be allowed to have the chair of governors debate. We have had an interesting discussion this afternoon present with her for part of the meeting. She wanted to on the evidence behind the academies programme and have, and in the end she insisted on having, the head some of the issues with underperforming schools. He teacher of the local secondary school, which was part of outlined the elements of a good school. I agree with the education improvement partnership, with her for him, and think everyone in this House would agree, that the debate, but she told me several stories about how good leadership, a good ethos and parental involvement she was leaned on—that is the only way it can be are all things we recognise about good schools. He also described—and told that there was no alternative to her suggested that those attributes were completely independent school becoming an academy, despite the fact that the of academies, and that is where I cannot agree with governors did not want that, the parents did not want it him. and it was clearly an improving school. In the end, Strong evidence across the OECD links school autonomy having taken legal advice, they were able to fend off the with improved performance and, where there is a strong adviser who had come from the Government, using accountability system—also important—strong leadership those bullying tactics, but I am told that as she left she in the school and improved results. It is notable that said, “I’ll be back”, Arnold Schwarzenegger-style—no many of the countries that have successfully improved 51WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 Forced Conversion of Schools to 52WH Academies Academies [Elizabeth Truss] management need improvement, however, we cannot just stand by and allow that to continue. The cases that their educational performance—Germany over the past hon. Members have raised in the debate are about 10 years, for example—have done so by increasing the schools in which performance is not good enough. We amount of autonomy that schools have, setting strong are not talking about schools in which performance is standards and a strong accountability regime. Germany already good. There are good schools under local authority has seen a marked improvement, relative to other countries. auspices and there are good academies, but we are The OECD used evidence from PISA 2006 to show that talking about underperforming schools. We look for science results for 15-year-olds had improved in countries two indicators of underperformance to determine which that gave more autonomy to schools. That evidence is schools we should approach and work with to deliver generally recognised, and was recognised by the previous sustained improvement: low achievement over time and Government when they established and promoted the whether the school is in Ofsted category 4. academies programme. There is a link between autonomy Many schools agree to become sponsored academies, and accountability and improved performance. because they know that academies are achieving dramatic improvements in results, particularly where new sponsors John Pugh: Is there a system in Germany whereby have taken on formerly underperforming schools, as I schools selectively opt for greater autonomy or are they have seen that in my county of Norfolk. Sponsors bring all simply endowed with greater autonomy? outside influence and a wealth of experience. They challenge traditional thinking and have no truck with a Elizabeth Truss: The German system is rather more culture of low expectations. complex because each länder has its own education Hon. Members asked about the evidence. It shows system. I am happy to discuss it with my hon. Friend in that sponsored academies are improving at a faster rate more detail in due course, but there has been a general than other state-funded schools. In fact, on average, the move across the country to have fewer decisions made longer they are open, the better they do. Between 2011 by the Government and more decisions made by school and 2012 the proportion of pupils achieving five good leaders. That is my general point. The point about GCSEs, including English and maths, in sponsored process he raised is a slightly different issue. secondary academies increased by 3.1%, which compares My hon. Friend mentioned that our other school with 0.6% across all state-funded schools, so there is a policies and what happens in schools are important. He differential rate of performance. is right. The academies programme is part of what the There are some dramatic case studies. Students and Government are doing to address educational standards. staff at the Accrington academy in Lancashire, for We are also giving significant funding for disadvantaged example, celebrated a huge improvement in results. In pupils through the pupil premium, which is £2.5 billion 2012, 60% of students achieved five or more A* to C a year. We are also improving the quality of teaching in grades at GCSE, including English and maths. That our schools, by increasing the number of high-quality was up 13 percentage points from 47% in 2011 and up applicants to the profession and developing existing an incredible 42 percentage points from just 18% at the teachers. We are reforming the national curriculum to predecessor school in 2008. The school is supported by make it more rigorous and more focused, so that teachers its sponsor, United Learning. Given the opportunities, I have the freedom to design lessons that inspire and can understand why my hon. Friend the Member for motivate their pupils. Hexham (Guy Opperman) is keen for more schools to Some freedoms that have hitherto been held mainly be able to convert to academy status in his area. I am by academies are being extended to all schools. All discussing that with the Minister for Schools, who is in schools are being given more freedom in how they turn discussing it with the Treasury and the Department design their curriculums. We are encouraging schools to for Communities and Local Government. We hope to collaborate and share best practice, so that strong schools come back to my hon. Friend very soon. can help weaker schools to improve. We are increasing the rigour of the accountability framework, including Several hon. Members rose— introducing the English baccalaureate and our new floor standard measure for key stage 4. Ofsted’s inspection Elizabeth Truss: I will not give way because I want to framework is raising the bar on inspections, so “satisfactory” answer the questions that have been raised. is no longer good enough. The policies have to be looked at in the round. The academies programme is Mr Slaughter: On a point of order, Mrs Main, the accompanied by other policies, in areas such as Minister is not giving way because she wishes to answer accountability, to ensure that school leaders are accountable the questions, but she is not addressing the subject of for what they do. the debate at all.

Richard Burden: Will the Minister give way? Mrs Anne Main (in the Chair): That is not a point of order. Elizabeth Truss: I am afraid that I will not because I have a lot of questions to answer in a short time. Many Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend the Member for interesting issues have been raised during the debate Hexham also outlined academies’ freedoms over term that I have not yet answered and want to move on to. times, the school day and pay and conditions. We have We are encouraging all schools to convert to academy heard positive reports about ARK academies and the status, so that good and outstanding schools can use the fact that they have a longer school day. E-ACT has autonomy that the status provides to drive up standards. supported the Blakely academy to set higher teacher Where schools are underperforming and leadership and pay to bring in top-quality teachers. 53WH Forced Conversion of Schools to 12 MARCH 2013 54WH Academies We should bear it in mind that intervention takes Robert Powell place where schools are underperforming—where there is a problem. At meetings with governing bodies, where schools are in Ofsted categories of concern, a broker 4.26 pm discusses sponsorship options and aims to agree a schedule Jonathan Evans (Cardiff North) (Con): It is a great of actions. As is necessarily the case in an underperforming pleasure, Mrs Main, to address the Chamber under school, that can sometimes appear challenging—of course, your chairmanship. Robert Darren Powell was born it can. We are saying that what is happening at that on 29 December 1979 at Glanamman hospital near school is not delivering for the children. It is important Ammanford. Robbie and his parents lived in the Upper that they receive the best possible education. Swansea valley in the town of Ystradgynlais. The community is part of the Brecon and Radnorshire 3.58 pm constituency, which I represented in Parliament between Sitting suspended for Divisions in the House. 1992 and 1997. Although I am no longer the Member of Parliament for the family, my hon. Friend the Member 4.23 pm for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) has kindly On resuming— agreed to let me lead this debate as many of the matters that I intend to raise are ones that arose when I served Elizabeth Truss: As I mentioned before the short either as the family’s MP or as the Member of the break in proceedings, the schools that we seek to intervene European Parliament for Wales. in and that are suited to a sponsored academy solution Robbie Powell was just 10 years and four months old are those that are underperforming. There have been when he died. A post-mortem examination took place some questions about the make-up of the departmental and the cause of death was recorded as Addison’s brokers that we employ to carry out that work. As the disease, which is a rare disease that affects one in 10,000 schools are underperforming, the conversations are often people. It can, however, be effectively diagnosed by the about challenging them to perform better. The departmental ACTH— adrenocorticotropic hormone—test. If that brokers have contracts with the Department that state had taken place in Robbie’s case, he would be alive their terms and conditions. They are not paid on results, today and living a full and normal life. and they are subject to the civil service code of conduct. The case of Robbie Powell has become notorious as The hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) an example of the failure of multiple individuals and asked about the code of conduct procedure. He also agencies. The satirical magazine Private Eye has described referred to it in a letter when there was a complaint, and it as one of the most shocking and astonishing stories in that was addressed by the Department for Education. the history of the NHS. The multiple failures even The chief inspector of schools, Sir Michael Wilshaw, affected how the case was dealt with by Welsh Office made it clear in his most recent report that more children officials, which led to two Cabinet Ministers, my right than ever before are in good schools. That is fantastic hon. Friends the Members for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) news. He has been clear that there are areas of the and for Richmond (Yorks) (Mr Hague) giving country where almost all schools are excellent or good, parliamentary answers that later proved to be untrue. which, again, is fantastic news. None the less, progress For the purposes of today’s debate, however, I wish to and performance are not uniform across the country. focus on the role of the prosecuting authorities in Sir Michael has been equally clear that there are areas considering the issue of whether a criminal prosecution of the country where only a minority of schools are should have been authorised in this case. good enough, which is unacceptable. According to Ofsted, Robbie died on 17 April 1990. He had been unwell for 2 million children are in schools that are not good more than a fortnight and his parents had requested no enough, and no one should be willing to accept that. fewer than seven consultations with five local GPs over What we have to bear in mind is that when we broker that period as they became increasingly concerned about sponsored academies in cases of underperforming schools, his condition. Robbie had excessive weight loss and was the children are not receiving the quality of education so weak in the last four days of his life that he could not that they deserve. walk. If Robbie had been referred immediately for hospital treatment it is likely that his life would have been saved, but a number of general practitioners who dealt with him did not refer him to hospital for an investigation. On the final day of his short life, his father had to take him by car to Morriston hospital, after being refused an ambulance at the second GP consultation of the day. Robbie stopped breathing on arrival at the hospital and never regained consciousness. All of the evidence shows that the father had been pleading with GPs to refer Robbie to Morriston hospital. What Mr Powell could not have known at that time is that four months earlier, a hospital consultant had recommended that Robbie should be tested for Addison’s disease. It later emerged that a letter to that effect had been sent to the GP practice. It said that Robbie needed the ACTH test and should be immediately re-referred if there was any recurrence of his symptoms. Clearly, after Robbie had died one would have expected that all of the 55WH Robert Powell12 MARCH 2013 Robert Powell 56WH

[Jonathan Evans] First Minister had asked the Attorney-General whether he would join the Welsh Assembly Government in background circumstances and failures would have come establishing a full public inquiry into the case, as the to light. However, the reality is that virtually all the matters of concern that I intend to raise in this debate organisations that had the responsibility for establishing are not wholly within the remit of the Welsh Assembly the facts operated in ways that blocked, impeded or Government but relate specifically to the manner in even falsified the evidence. which the prosecuting authorities had considered the matter. Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD): I It was about that issue that I wrote on 4 April 1996 to pay tribute to my hon. Friend for the skill with which he the then chief crown prosecutor for Swansea expressing has pursued this case. However, I am sure that he would concern about the case and pointing out that it might be also like to put on the record the tenacity with which necessary to require a full and detailed investigation of Robbie’s father has pursued the case. Without his tenacity, the actions—or should I say the inactivity?—of the we would not be where we are today. prosecuting authorities. The response that I received was directly from the then Director of Public Prosecutions Jonathan Evans: I am certainly very happy to in London, the late Dame Barbara Mills QC, who set acknowledge that tenacity, as I will elaborate on later in out—I am bound to say in rather simplistic fashion—the my remarks, and as I said earlier I thank my hon. “realistic prospect of conviction” test. Dame Barbara Friend for his support for my raising this matter today. indicated that the Crown Prosecution Service had first My own concerns as the then MP for the Powell been consulted about the case in November 1994 and family became so great that they led me to request the had given preliminary advice to the police, before offering then Secretary of State for Wales, my right hon. Friend additional advice to the police in December 1994. In the Member for Wokingham, to authorise a full public December 1995, following what was described by Dame inquiry to get at the facts, a request that was framed in Barbara as an “extensive” inquiry, the Dyfed Powys joint terms with the then spokesman for Her Majesty’s police submitted a further file to the CPS seeking advice, Opposition and later First Secretary of Wales, Rhodri and the case again received detailed consideration with Morgan. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham advice being given to the police on 5 January 1996. wrote to me on 8 May 1994 indicating that he had given Dame Barbara set out in that letter that she had advised the issue of whether to hold a public inquiry very that the evidence available at that stage was insufficient careful consideration but did not think that he would be to support a prosecution, but she indicated that she justified in holding one. However, we now know that at would be happy to consider any further evidence. She that time the Welsh Office officials were providing him reiterated this stance in a letter to me on 26 July 1996. with false information about the case. At a later stage, and following complaints made by However, my right hon. Friend offered to set up a Mr Powell to the then chief constable of Dyfed Powys non-statutory inquiry under an independent chairman police and the Police Complaints Authority, it was if my constituents—the Powell family—felt that such decided that Dyfed Powys police’s handling of the case an inquiry would help to get to the bottom of the issue. would be independently reviewed by another police Although the family wanted a full public inquiry, they force. Detective Chief Inspector Poole of West Midlands accepted this course of action but received a notification police was appointed and his November 2000 review six months later that the family’s general practitioners made 25 recommendations. The Avon and Somerset had refused to co-operate. Furthermore, at one point police force was instructed to undertake a disciplinary the medical notes in the case, which were crucial in investigation, and in fact a detective chief superintendent terms of the request for the Addison’s disease test, went and a superintendent from Dyfed Powys police were missing. Questions were asked in Parliament. In June both formally issued with discipline notices. However, 1995, that led my right hon. Friend to assert that he had as was sadly becoming rather familiar, both senior been advised that no package containing those documents officers were then permitted to retire and the investigation had ever been received by his Department. went no further. However, after further investigations that were undertaken That investigation was called Operation Reboant, by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for and it focused on the handling of the investigation Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs when he became itself. Although Dame Barbara had spoken about the Welsh Secretary, it was established that the information detail of the Dyfed Powys police investigation, the that had been provided to Parliament was completely conclusion of the Avon and Somerset police force on untrue and as a result my right hon. Friend—who was this matter was shockingly different. It concluded that then the new Welsh Secretary—was obliged to set up an Dyfed Powys police had been institutionally incompetent independent investigation into the management of papers in respect of the police investigation into the circumstances by the Welsh Office. Needless to say, the fact that MPs surrounding the death of Robbie Powell. The manner in and Cabinet Ministers had been provided with false which employees of Dyfed Powys police had dealt with information on such matters by civil servants did nothing Robbie’s father was also criticised. The inquiry concluded to improve the Powell family’s confidence that the true that, as an organisation, Dyfed Powys police had failed facts of the case would ever come to light. to investigate professionally, efficiently or effectively the I set out these issues as the context of this debate, circumstances surrounding and subsequent to the death because responsibilities in relation to health are now of Robert Powell at Morriston hospital, and that the clearly within the remit of the Welsh Assembly. More criminal investigations were badly managed by senior recently, the First Minister, Carwyn Jones, ordered an detectives. However, the inquiry did not authorise independent review of the case, which reported last prosecution for misconduct in public office as Dyfed year. In advance of ordering that review, however, the Powys police was neither a body corporate nor a person 57WH Robert Powell12 MARCH 2013 Robert Powell 58WH for prosecution purposes. Furthermore, it should be “and the earlier CPS decisions”. noted that the GPs who were under investigation were, In my correspondence with Dame Barbara Mills in at the material time, actually employed by Dyfed Powys 1996, she made it clear that the Crown Prosecution police as police surgeons, and that this conflict of Service was still open to considering further evidence in interest was not disclosed. the case, but on the final page of the six-page letter of The second investigation was entitled Operation Radiance 17 April 2003, crown prosecutor Mr Andrew Penhale and it was an investigation into whether any criminal says these extraordinary words: offences had been committed by the general practitioners, “for a variety of reasons, the important evidential points were whose role had been to provide health care to the Powell missed and the doctors were given an unqualified assurance that family. This investigation was undertaken by DCI Poole, they would not be prosecuted.” who concluded that there was the potential for up to It seems, in that context, that the prosecuting authorities 35 individual criminal offences to be considered in the conclude that the initiation of criminal proceedings, at case, ranging from manslaughter to the falsification of the very least for forgery and perverting the course of documents, perverting the course of justice and conspiracy justice, might be regarded as an abuse of process. Two to pervert the course of justice. Core to those charges serious issues arise from this. Although the use of was the revelation that a secretary in the GP practice evidence that arises following a declaration that no constructed a referral letter after Robbie had died requesting prosecution would be forthcoming might make that that Robbie should be tested for Addison’s disease in evidence inadmissible, is it really the opinion of the response to the original referral on that issue, which had Attorney-General that such a statement would preclude taken place months earlier. The letter was then backdated any further prosecution of such an individual? This to the time that Robbie was still alive and placed in his proposition requires clarification. If the granting by the file of papers. Two persons in the GP practice accepted prosecuting authorities of what effectively amounts to that they had been involved in this exercise, the clear an immunity from prosecution is regarded by the Attorney- purpose of which was to mislead the investigations that General as effective, does that not set out even more were taking place into the circumstances that led to starkly the need for a full and thorough public inquiry, Robbie’s death. Another GP confessed that she had to establish quite how such an appalling situation has watched a television investigative report into the scandal arisen? that had been broadcast in Wales, and following that broadcast she had constructed a series of notes, backdated I am aware that the Attorney-General does not feel a them to a date when Robbie was alive and then placed public inquiry is necessary, as all the facts are now them in his notes. Again, it seems clear that this action known, albeit they have been dragged into the public was contrived in order to give a misleading impression spotlight after years of lies and obfuscation. However, I regarding the medical care that was being offered. do not know why the GPs were given immunity from prosecution in respect of serious offences of forgery The conclusions of Operation Radiance were delivered and perverting the course of justice. The Powell family to the CPS and led to a meeting between the CPS and and I would be interested in hearing an answer to that. their advising counsel on 2 April 2003, the effect of which was to inform the parents that no prosecution As my hon. Friend the Member for Brecon and would be undertaken in relation to any of the issues Radnorshire (Roger Williams)said, I pay credit to Mr and arising from the treatment of their son. I have rarely Mrs Powell, who have fought relentlessly for justice for read a more self-serving document than that six-page their son since his untimely death, very often in the face letter, but the essence of the viewpoint conveyed by the of obstruction, lies, forgery and abuse. Mr and Mrs Powell CPS is that it would no longer be justifiable to resurrect are not seeking vindictive retribution against those who the offences as any case brought against the doctors for failed their son and then wilfully obstructed the investigation forgery or for perverting the course of justice would of the circumstances. The Attorney-General declined to inevitably be stopped as “an abuse of process”. participate in a public inquiry as he feels that the facts It is difficult to understand why the prosecution of are known, but he should acknowledge that it has only conduct of the sort to which I have referred could be been the relentless challenge of Mr Powell that has regarded as “an abuse of process”. However, the first brought the appalling truth to light in this case. sentence of the final page of that letter gives a hint, Back in 2001, the Bristol inquiry concluded that when the CPS says that when things go wrong, hospitals and health care “the important considerations are the passage of time and the professionals owe a duty of candour and that they earlier CPS decisions”. should be open and honest. The Robbie Powell case in I cannot imagine for one moment that an argument of May 2000 highlighted the absence of any duty of candour that sort would cut much ice in the considerations that for health care professionals. A judgment in the European Parliament has given to the issues surrounding the Court of Human Rights states: deaths at Hillsborough in 1989, more than a year before “Whilst it is arguable that doctors had a duty not to falsify the death of Robert Powell. Accordingly, the passage of medical records under the common law…there was no binding time in itself surely should never be relied upon by the decision of the courts as to the existence of such a duty. As the prosecuting authorities as a reason why no prosecution law stands now”, should be taken forward, and I can imagine the outcry in this country, if such a claim were to be made in the Hillsborough “doctors have no duty to give parents of a child who died as a case. result of their negligence a truthful account of the circumstances However, it is the remaining words of that sentence of the death, nor even to refrain from deliberately falsifying that give a hint as to why the prosecuting authorities records.” had concluded that no action would be taken over these The Health Committee has proposed twice that this shocking events. The words are duty should be established in statute and it remains the 59WH Robert Powell12 MARCH 2013 Robert Powell 60WH

[Jonathan Evans] consulting the various medical and forensic experts in the case. A senior and eminent Queen’s counsel was family’s aim to see that achieved. The recent Francis instructed by the CPS throughout. report, of the Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust The decision at the end was that no prosecution public inquiry, has also recommended implementing could be brought. That decision was taken on 14 March this duty of candour, as has the former chief medical 2003. The family were informed by letter, which explained officer for England, Sir Liam Donaldson. Hon. Members that the CPS intended to meet them to explain the will not be surprised that those people who have campaigned background to the decision. Ahead of that meeting, the to establish such a duty wish to call it Robbie’s law, in CPS and Dyfed-Powys police met the General Medical acknowledgment of the appalling failures in the case Council to determine what might be required to initiate that I have outlined. a GMC inquiry. The meeting with the family took place in early April 4.34 pm 2003. It was explained at the meeting that this was an The Attorney-General (Mr Dominic Grieve): It is a extremely difficult decision, based on a complicated set pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Main. of facts, involving myriad differing medical opinions. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Cardiff The decision had to consider the impact of the earlier North (Jonathan Evans) on securing this debate. CPS decisions not to prosecute and the impact of the passage of time on the fairness of the prosecution, My hon. Friend outlined the sad and unhappy history including matters such as the availability of evidence for of this matter. At the outset, I acknowledge that it is both the prosecution and defence. clear that Mr Powell and his family feel, with justification, very let down by how this matter has been handled. The letter of 17 April 2003, to which my hon. Friend My hon. Friend’s concerns appear to fall into two refers, was sent to explain that decision in writing, categories. The first relates to the decision of the Crown following the meeting with the Powell family. I am Prosecution Service not to bring any criminal proceedings afraid that I do not agree with the description of the arising from the circumstances of Robbie Powell’s death. letter as “a self-serving document”. Its purpose was to The second is whether, in light of the Crown Prosecution assist the Powell family in understanding the decision Service’s conduct of this matter, there should be a full making in an extremely complicated case and to set out public inquiry. fairly the Crown Prosecution Service’s evaluation of what was and was not possible. First, on the decision not to prosecute, it is right that Parliament holds public services to account, including In 2004, an inquest was finally held in this case, after the Crown Prosecution Service, for which I am ministerially the then Attorney-General, Lord Goldsmith, consented accountable here. However, I have to preface my remarks to an application being made to the High Court for an with a note of caution. This debate cannot be the place order that it should take place. Following the inquest, to determine the guilt or innocence of those suspected Mr Powell complained that a number of the doctors of criminal activity, and it is not the place where I can had committed perjury during the inquest. That was engage in detailed analysis of the complex issues that again considered by the same reviewing lawyer and this case involves. I must also be realistic about what I senior Queen’s counsel. In respect of one of the doctors, can achieve in the short time available to me in this such a prosecution would have met the same problems debate. I do not make those remarks lightly or to brush as had been highlighted in 2003; in respect of the other the matters aside. I know that this is a case where there doctor, the case was significantly weakened by the medical have been allegations of record falsification and cover evidence heard during the inquest. The CPS decision up, and it would only fuel those concerns if I were to not to prosecute for perjury and the reasons behind it refuse to engage with them. So I will engage with them, were also explained to the family, in a letter dated to the extent that I can and that it is possible to do so in 8 December 2005. It was, of course, open to the Powell this Chamber. family to ask for the CPS decisions not to prosecute in 2003 and 2005 to be reviewed within the CPS, or to The CPS reviews of evidence in the 1990s were in institute judicial review proceedings. relation to evidence gathered during a criminal investigation by Dyfed-Powys police, which was later found, as my It remains the case that such a review would still be hon. Friend said, to be institutionally incompetent. It is available. I emphasise that I am not, in saying that, hardly surprising that decisions made by the CPS on the suggesting that the review could possibly come to any strength of evidence gathered by an institutionally different conclusion, because I have no grounds for incompetent criminal investigation may be open to making that suggestion. I hope my hon. Friend will criticism. I will therefore focus on the review of the forgive me for saying that that is all I can say on that evidence conducted by CPS in 2003, which was based aspect of the matter in this context. on police investigations conducted by an independent team supervised by the Police Complaints Authority. Jonathan Evans: Before the Attorney-General moves The 2003 evidential review considered whether any of away from the 2003 letter, will he respond to my points the medical professionals involved in the case could be on the aspect of the letter dealing with unqualified prosecuted for gross negligence manslaughter. It also assurances that there would be no prosecution? It is one considered, in relation to the amended medical records thing to tell someone that, on the basis of the current and a backdated referral letter, whether proceedings evidence, there will not be a prosecution; it is quite could or should be brought for forgery and/or perverting another for the Crown Prosecution Service to explain a the course of justice. That review encompassed a lengthy decision not to prosecute on the basis of previous consideration of papers over a number of months and unqualified assurances that no prosecution would ever meetings with officers, initiating further enquiries and take place. 61WH Robert Powell12 MARCH 2013 Robert Powell 62WH

The Attorney-General: I totally understand my hon. conducted two further investigations into complaints Friend’s point. My difficulty is that I am not in a relating to Dyfed-Powys police. Additionally, the Welsh position in this debate to analyse the assurances that Assembly Government commissioned their own report, were given, their exact terms or their effect. The CPS published in February 2012, into the handling of the will have to consider that. What I can say is that, care and treatment received by Robbie Powell. It is generally speaking, although it is true that there may be difficult to see that a public inquiry would uncover exceptional circumstances in which an assurance that a anything that has not already been uncovered or would prosecution will not be brought can subsequently be identify lessons to be learned that have not already been ignored and overridden, and would survive an abuse of identified. process application if a trial were ever to take place, Although it was the view of Lord Goldsmith and my such an assurance will be a powerful argument if someone hon. and learned Friend the Member for Harborough wishes to argue that there would be an abuse of process that a public inquiry is unnecessary, they both agreed if a prosecution were to be brought. that, if the Welsh First Minister maintained that such In any event, the abuse of process issue in respect of an inquiry needed to be established, they would not assurances that no prosecution would take place is only stand in his way provided that any inquiry encompassed one element in the equation, as I hope I have been able the actions of both the police and the CPS. The main to explain. It is not the sole argument; there are also concern was that a public inquiry would be seriously evidential issues, and I do not think such things can be impeded if it were not able to consider the actions of all considered separately.I am afraid that is the best explanation those involved. It would serve no purpose for some I can give in the time available. participants in the Powell case to be within the scope of I know my hon. Friend has previously raised with me the inquiry only for others to be left out. instances in which earlier decisions not to prosecute The Home Office took the view, however, that a have been ignored with prosecutions being brought public inquiry into the activities of the police was not later, which I accept. I emphasise that such assurances necessary given the number of existing inquiries into are not an insuperable or absolute bar, but they are the police arising from the case. The Home Office without doubt a major obstacle if any further prosecution accordingly now takes the view that any new inquiry is to take place. into the actions of the police is unlikely to produce any fresh information about the role of the police in this Jonathan Evans: My final point is that it is one thing tragic case. For that reason, the Home Office is not to say that, back in 1996, an unqualified assurance was convinced that there is a need for a joint inquiry. The given and that it was sufficiently important for it to decision is for the Home Office, but from the information appear in that letter, but in 1996 a letter was sent to a available to me as a Law Officer, I have no reason to Member of Parliament saying that the CPS remained dispute the Home Office’s view. open to further evidence. Does my right hon. and Had the Home Office agreed to an inquiry, it would learned Friend agree that that should at least be considered? have been a further condition of the Law Officers’ consent that the inquiry did not extend to question the The Attorney-General: I have no reason to disagree, correctness or otherwise of a prosecutorial decision. but, equally, I have no reason to disagree with the That is because it is a fundamental constitutional principle position that the CPS adopted in 2003. That really is as that decisions by prosecutors are taken independently far as I can go on the matter. I have explained that the of the Executive and are free from political influence. If issue can be reviewed further, but, for the reasons I have such decisions are reviewed anywhere, they have to be already given, I have no reason to think that it will reviewed in a court of law. Any other approach risks the necessarily be a productive avenue. If that is something perception that the Government are holding the threat the family want, it is something they can ask for. of an inquiry over the head of prosecutors to push them I am conscious that I have very little time, so I will into making prosecutorial decisions in a way more to explain the Law Officers’ approach to the public inquiry. the Government’s liking. The question was most recently considered by the former Of course, the Home Office is right: this very tragic Solicitor-General, my hon. and learned Friend the Member case has been the subject of a large number of reviews for Harborough (Sir Edward Garnier), in the summer that have undoubtedly identified areas where things of 2010. Prior to that, it was considered by Lord Goldsmith could have been done much better. It is important that in early 2007. the recommendations of those reviews are implemented. The starting point for those Law Officers who have Robbie Powell’s death was almost 23 years ago, and previously considered the case is that a public inquiry is the passage of time continues to run. The concerns unnecessary, not because the matter is not serious—the expressed by Lord Goldsmith and my hon. and learned matter is undoubtedly extremely serious—but because Friend the Member for Harborough about whether a issues surrounding the circumstances of Robbie’s death public inquiry could ever be appropriate in this case have already been the subject of intense scrutiny. In perhaps apply with greater force today than they did in 2003, there was an inquiry into Dyfed-Powys police’s 2010. handling of the case by Avon and Somerset constabulary. I can conclude only by expressing my sympathy for In 2007-08, the Independent Police Complaints Commission the family. 63WH 12 MARCH 2013 Coventry City Football Club 64WH

Coventry City Football Club hedge fund is allowed to reopen the issue, it will be a blatant attempt to profit at the expense of those who built and paid for the stadium: in part, the people of 4.56 pm Coventry. Mr Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East) (Lab): Thank you, Mrs Main, for presiding over this debate, Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab): My which gives us an opportunity to discuss an issue of right hon. Friend has obviously done considerable such concern to the city of Coventry, to local people investigation into the matter. I have the impression that and, most particularly, to Sky Blue fans. the parent company, Sisu, bought the football club to Coventry City football club has been in deep financial acquire the stadium; that is my view, although I have difficulty for many years. Five years ago, when it had not gone into it in depth. Has he considered a way lost its ground, Highfield Road, and most of its assets, forward? Is it worth while exploring arbitration? He will the club was sold to the hedge fund Sisu 20 minutes know better than I do; he has dealt with the matter a lot before the administrators were due to take over. Sisu more than I have. specialises in acquiring distressed assets, and under Sisu the club’s ownership is multilayered, opaque and partly Mr Ainsworth: I will come to exactly that point later offshore in the Cayman Islands. It is claimed that Sisu in my speech. It is a potential way forward that has been has lost £43 million over the period, but nobody can be put to the club owners in the past few days. sure as substantial management fees of millions of To return to the issue of whether the owners will be pounds are passed between the layers of ownership and allowed to reopen the agreements that existed long debentures seem to protect unknown investors. before they arrived in the city and took over the club, A bitter battle has waged for the past year over the Martin Reeves and Chris West of the city council and rent and ownership of the Ricoh arena, where the club Arena Coventry Ltd dismissed the threats as “desperate play. The club’s owners have been on a rent strike. They stuff”. However, in my view, the club owners must be say they are fighting for a more realistic settlement for a prepared to justify their threats and allegations publicly league one club, although Arena Coventry Ltd, which is or drop the issue if we are to find a way forward. I jointly owned by Coventry city council and the Alan challenge them to do so. Edward Higgs Charity, believes the agenda has been to The Sky Blue Trust, which represents fans, now has destabilise the company and thereby gain control at a more than 800 members, an indication of the growing fire-sale price. A much lowered rent has been offered, amount of alarm among fans. I thank the trust for but the dispute continues. helping and supporting me to prepare for this debate Meanwhile, the fans and the people of Coventry and for all the work that it has done over the past few despair as the club’s owners threaten to liquidate the years. The club has made a proposal that I put to the business or move the club out of the city. I am grateful club owners yesterday: binding arbitration conducted to the Football League, which yesterday, ahead of this by a well-qualified local man, Dr John Beech, who has a debate, issued a statement reiterating its position: PhD in business strategy from Cranfield university and “Any application to move the club to a stadium outside the city more than five years’ experience examining football would need to be considered by the Board of the Football finance. League. In doing so, the Board would require the club to demonstrate Board member Mark Labovitch indicated his enthusiasm that it had a clear plan for returning to Coventry within a for that course of action. However, the response that I prescribed timeframe.” received today demonstrates how difficult it is to deal I hope the Football League’s rules will therefore not with Joy Seppala and her team. It seeks to turn the allow Sisu to do anything like what was done to Wimbledon proposal of binding arbitration into an opportunity to football club. investigate Arena Coventry’s finances and set the agenda The Football League has a reform of governance for the arbiters. Of course, there is no suggestion that programme under way, on which I would like the Minister the football club’s finances or ownership structure should to comment. However, the Football League, which is be subjected to investigation. within the democratic control of the clubs themselves, can only do so much. Do the Government believe that Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): I congratulate the right will be adequate to address the challenges faced by hon. Gentleman on raising this important matter. The Coventry City football club and the game? fortunes of top sporting clubs are key in any community, Although the dispute between the parties over the and the fortunes of Coventry City are important to my rent level has been in the public domain for many constituents in Rugby, as Coventry City is their closest months, and much innuendo and allegation inevitably league club. In Rugby, where some of us play a game surround such disputes, one key aspect has not had any with a slightly differently shaped ball, we had an issue public exposure. If we are to go forward, it must be with the administration of our top rugby club, the flushed out. The football club’s owners are seeking to Rugby Lions, and it took some time for the sport’s challenge the validity of the original rental agreement administrative body to get involved. Does he believe made back in 2002, and are using that challenge in an that the football authorities are currently sufficiently attempt to discredit the city council’s motives for paying involved? £14 million to Yorkshire bank in December for the stadium’s debts. I cannot see what right the club owners Mr Ainsworth: I accept what the hon. Gentleman have to issue threats on that front as they bought the says. I will raise the general issue of the need for new club more than five years later. They had the opportunity governance in football, which I think applies to other for due diligence, and I would hope that the principle of businesses, and certainly to other sporting businesses. caveat emptor meant something in that case. If the We will have to see what the Minister says, and whether 65WH Coventry City Football Club12 MARCH 2013 Coventry City Football Club 66WH he can give us any comfort with regard to pressure that we went through our own financial problems in the the Department might be putting on the authorities or previous decade. Also, only on Friday night, I spent the discussions that they might be having with them to evening at a charity dinner with Brian Kilcline, who ensure that the arrangements are sufficient to the task lifted the FA cup for Coventry City in 1987; I told him in hand. about this debate and he, too, sent his best wishes to all Before I leave the issue of arbitration, I find it astonishing Sky Blue fans. Good luck with the quest to save the club that Mr Labovitch, a member of the football board, for the community. should have sent me this e-mail a few minutes ago about the offer to arbitrate: Mr Ainsworth: I thank the hon. Gentleman. For “Bob, I forgot to mention one (hopefully obvious) point: Coventry, 1987 was the pinnacle so far of what can be arbitration should all be conducted in public, no hiding behind achieved by a football club on behalf of a city, and it claims of ‘commercially sensitive’”. was the entire city; whether football fans, rugby fans or This from a company deliberately structured to prevent whatever, they were lifted for such a long time by that anybody from seeing what its business is, where the magnificent occasion, and we want to see many more of money is moved and who the eventual beneficiaries are. them. We all fear, however, that we will not see such It is cheeky beyond belief. occasions unless there is a new settlement, a new realism and a new acceptance of community responsibility by The Sky Blue Trust has campaigned for fans to be the owners of the club, with a constructive approach to given a stake in the club. In the past, club owners have settling the dispute that they appear to have deliberately said that they will do so, but when asked to make a firm prolonged. They are not stupid—we are dealing with offer, they have come up with 5% to 10% at a discount clever people—so one has to assume that their motives at some undefined future date, with no representation are not good for the community, the city or the club and on the main board. The trust feels that such an offer is its fans. of absolutely no value, as it will not provide the transparency necessary for good governance. Will the Minister respond to the need for the reform of governance and for transparency in our national I am also grateful to the enormously impressive game? Has he looked at the reform programme of the Supporters Direct, which points out to anybody who Football League, and does he believe it adequate to the will listen—this goes right to the point made by the challenge faced by the game? My reading is that it hon. Member for Rugby (Mark Pawsey)—that this would not have helped us to any great extent with the country’s record of football governance is not good. existing problems in Coventry, but if the Minister can Some 92 clubs have gone into receivership in the past say otherwise I will be pleased to hear it. Have the 20 years. In Germany, where fan ownership is the norm, Government looked at the licensing proposals of Supporters not one Bundesliga club has experienced insolvency Direct? Could those proposals provide sustainability since the league’s creation in 1963. Are the Government and accountability for what is overwhelmingly our biggest happy with English football’s governance? Banking national sporting game? regulation has failed us spectacularly. Are not the same issues—lack of accountability, greed and lack of To the club, I say that there has been a reduced rent transparency—a problem in football too? offer. If the owners want to be taken seriously, the time is long past for them to respond clearly by accepting or The Ricoh arena has massive potential to benefit the putting a definite counter-proposal, rather than the most economically deprived part of Coventry. It is deliberate obfuscation and delay, for whatever motives, directly connected to the motorway network and will that has gone on for month after month. A reasonable soon be connected to the railway. Many in the city have response to the proposition for binding arbitration, worked hard to bring what used to be a derelict, which my hon. Friend the Member for Coventry South contaminated site back into economic use, and the city (Mr Cunningham) mentioned, would have been an is open to plans that will bring more benefit. opportunity for the club to win trust. If it had accepted Many of us accept the need for a realistic approach to the proposition, it would have seen the supporters’ the lease and management issues if the stadium is to trust, me and I do not know how many others prepared reach its full potential. Changes would be supported to join it and say that that was a reasonable way with the right partner at the right time. But Sisu is not forward; my hon. Friend raised the issue independently entitled to bully its way into control of an asset that it today, so he would have been minded to get behind such did not provide, build or pay for. It must prove that it is action. In its response, however, the club has failed not simply a predator with greed running through its absolutely to grasp the opportunity to get with the parts DNA before it can expect such treatment. of the community that care so much about the football The football club is a valuable part of our city’s life. club and economic development in the city. Instead of In an age when communities struggle for relevance, it all the deliberate talk, innuendo and attempts to destroy has the capacity to motivate people and give them reputations that have gone on, the club should come collective spirit. This dispute has gone on for far too clean about its threats over the 2002 rental agreement. If long and needs to be brought to a conclusion. I fear that we had some kind of straight response from the owners, Sisu, despite its words and slick presentations, has no even at this late stage, some good will would rally to interest in such things. their cause. They must start to examine the behaviour that we have seen for far too long. Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): I am a Huddersfield Town fan, and my club is very much at the 5.14 pm heart of my community, raising hundreds of thousands of pounds for the Yorkshire ambulances. Mark Robins The Minister of State, Department for Culture, Media has recently moved to Huddersfield Town as manager, and Sport (Hugh Robertson): I thank the right hon. so us fans feel a close kinship with Coventry City, and Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth) for 67WH Coventry City Football Club12 MARCH 2013 Coventry City Football Club 68WH

[Hugh Robertson] anyone in the Department who could use the enormous influence of his office to facilitate such an event? It is securing the debate and for his contribution. As I hope difficult but if he could be positive it would help. he knows, he is well respected both as a Member of the House and in the Ministry of Defence, where he served Hugh Robertson: I have no statutory power as a with much distinction at the end of the previous Minister to intervene. The hon. Gentleman, however, is Government. That is evident in how he presented his not asking for that; he is asking if I could use my good case today. May I also record a small apology for some offices to effect a solution. As long as my powers and confusion over who was to respond to him in the debate the limitations on what a Minister can achieve are today? I was due to be in a Bill Committee all afternoon clearly known, I have enough respect for the Opposition but, fortunately, it wound down a little early, so I am Members present, in particular the right hon. Member sorry if that caused any confusion. for Coventry North East whom I have dealt with over The right hon. Gentleman put his case extremely many years, to say simply that if there is a stage at which well. I entirely agree with him on almost everything he my intervention might be helpful, I am happy to do so. said. I place on record my sympathy for the fans of The danger is that that card, once played, might be the Coventry City football club for the position in which final card, so it might be better to try some other they have been put and for the way in which it came avenues first. about. No one who cares about football clubs or sport in general can find the series of events that he has Mr Ainsworth: I would be wary of asking the Minister outlined today in any way satisfactory. In fact, almost to become involved in mediation, because the proposal everyone would conclude that that is a disastrous way in has been made by the club, and there are grave worries which to run a sports club, in anyone’s judgment. The that it may be just part of the prevarication that has tragedy, in a sense, is that the situation he outlined is not gone on for some time, whatever the motive. unique to his club. At some stage over the past 10 years, more than half of the Football League’s 72 clubs have Hugh Robertson: I thank the right hon. Gentleman been insolvent, which is clearly not satisfactory. for that helpful intervention. I leave the matter with Rather than read through my prepared speaking him, but if he thinks I can do something to help, I am notes, if the right hon. Gentleman is happy, I will try to happy to do so. I suspect that a more obvious target answer the various questions that he posed to Government. might be the chairman of the Football League, who is First, do the Government believe that the Football supposed to be independent in these matters. League’s approach is sufficient? It is fair to say that under the leadership of Greg Clarke, the Football League Mr Robinson: The problem is exemplified by my right has made considerable strides and, as I would expect, hon. Friend’s intervention. Assuming that it is impossible— the right hon. Gentleman fairly alluded to that in his the people involved are bitter, and are at it like that all remarks. The tightening up of many of the financial the time—someone should go in with a cool head, look fair play rules that have happened on the current chairman’s at both sides without taking a prejudiced position, and watch are welcome, necessary and a step in the right try to bring them together. That would be the role to direction. Indeed, when Greg Clarke was interviewed take, but I appreciate that the Minister has no statutory by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee as part of power. its inquiry into football governance, he straightforwardly said that debt is Hugh Robertson: The hon. Gentleman puts the issue “the single biggest problem for football”. well. That is the role that should be carried out by the That was entirely mirrored in what the right hon. Gentleman Football League in the first instance, but if for any said today. He also asked if I thought that the reform reason that proves impossible, I would be happy to look programme would in itself be sufficient. The honest at any sensible proposal. answer is, no, I do not. There is a great deal more The right hon. Member for Coventry North East ground to be covered. I will come on to some of the asked about supporter representation on the board. I ways in which we are trying to cover that in a moment. will come to the bigger ticket way that that is being dealt The second area touched on by the right hon. Gentleman with in a moment. I have worried about this, having was the legal dispute between the club owners and the looked at it during most of my three years as a Minister, city council. I hope that he does not think that I am and it can become a bit of an Aunt Sally. It is not much ducking the question completely if I say that without use having one supporter on a board, if there are precise knowledge, it is difficult to comment in any 10 others who can vote him or her down on each and detail. From what he said, it certainly sounds as if it every occasion. It is about the message it sends out. The is at least an unsatisfactory situation. Clearly, if it will drift from the Government and the Select Committee lead to legal action, I must be a little careful. on Culture, Media and Sport is that this is an area that needs to be addressed, and that until now supporters Mr Geoffrey Robinson (Coventry North West) (Lab): have been under-represented in and under-consulted on I have an interest in the club to declare, which I do so the running of football clubs, and their views on how willingly. football clubs are run have not been sufficiently taken Before the Minister moves on to the general into account. considerations, could he find any way in which he might The football authorities—I will come to the process facilitate mediation? The two sides are locked in what in a moment—have been invited to make proposals. It seems to be a deeply held, personal, embittered struggle, remains to be seen precisely where they get to. If this and someone needs to find a way to help them out of it. area was working well, different solutions would probably I know that he cannot appoint a mediator, but is there work for different clubs, depending on their ownership 69WH Coventry City Football Club12 MARCH 2013 Coventry City Football Club 70WH structure and the history of their involvement with that there was a need to change, and that they would supporters. If that does not happen, the Government bring forward new regulations by August. With our will have to take action, and I will come to that. encouragement, the Select Committee invited them back The fourth question, which wraps all this up, is to review progress at the end of last year or the beginning whether the Government are happy with football of this year, and produced a report that basically said governance. The honest answer is no. That leads to a that some progress had been made, but not quickly question about what we have done about it. There has enough. It contained a straightforward recommendation been some progress over the last couple of years. All to the Government that if further progress was not 92 professional clubs are adopting the financial fair achieved by the middle of this year, the Government play proposals—I will come to the Culture, Media and should not hesitation in legislating. Sport Committee’s process in a moment—and the Football Those of us who have been in government would be Association has finally set up a regulatory authority properly wary of that move, but if it is the only to that will have power to determine applications under achieve proper progress, we are prepared to do it, albeit FA and Football League licences and directors’ criteria, that I would want it done on a cross-party basis. There and to look after moves. would be little point otherwise because if the Government changed, the regulations might move about. An absolutely Soon after I became a Minister, I turned up for a key part of any legislation would be the regulations on Wednesday morning debate in Westminster Hall to find supporters’ involvement in their football clubs. the best part of 60 Members of Parliament wanting to speak, and it is clear that football governance is an area Those were the questions the right hon. Gentleman that is causing concern throughout the House. To try to asked me. Time is running out, so I will not read my maintain a cross-party position, we asked the Culture, script. If he is happy with that and does not want to ask Media and Sport Committee to look at it. In the middle me anything else, I will simply finish where I started and of 2011, it produced a report, which I am sure the right thank him for the debate. I wish him and his local MPs hon. Gentleman has seen, with a series of recommendations well with Coventry football club. It is a great club, and it for the football authorities. They were challenged to go does not deserve to have got into its present position. I away and work together, which was something they had wish him and others every success in their efforts to not done very successfully until then. There is often bring about a brighter future for it. friction between the Football League, the Premier League Question put and agreed to. and the Football Association. They have worked much more constructively together in this instance, and produced 5.25 pm an interim response to the Committee. They agreed Sitting adjourned.

5WS Written Ministerial Statements12 MARCH 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 6WS

rare occasions in which this is entirely necessary—for Written Ministerial instance in emergency situations—I am concerned that such services are in many cases being provided unnecessarily Statements because of a misinterpretation of equality or human rights legislation. Such translation services have an unintentional, adverse impact on integration by reducing Tuesday 12 March 2013 the incentive for some migrant communities to learn English and are wasteful where many members of these communities already speak or understand English. They are also very expensive and a poor use of BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS taxpayers’ money. Independent research has suggested that local authorities alone spend nearly £20 million a Contingencies Fund Advance year translating a variety of documents. Across the wider public sector, it has been estimated that translation and interpretation costs reached over £100 million in The Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and 2006. Skills (Vince Cable): The Department for Business, Of course, local authorities must comply with the Innovation and Skills wishes to recruit five non-executive duties set out in the Equalities Act 2010, including the directors and three executive directors to the proposed duty not to discriminate and the public sector equality Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) before duty. But this is not a legal duty to translate documents Royal Assent has been received for the Enterprise and into foreign languages. Even if publishing only in English Regulatory Reform Bill which will create the CMA, a could put some people at a particular disadvantage, new non-ministerial department later this year. such a policy may be justified if local authorities can The new board together with Lord Currie CMA demonstrate that the integration and cost concerns chair designate and Alex Chisholm CEO designate will pursue a legitimate aim and outweigh any disadvantage. play a critical role in driving forward the creation of the The equality duty does not require a particular outcome, CMA. To ensure a smooth transition process the board merely that public authorities consider all the relevant will need to take early decisions on key areas such as, factors. operation structure and governance. When making these Obviously, there are broader challenges with decisions, they will need to consider how the CMA will communication with groups who may have poor levels achieve greater coherence in competition practice, deliver of literacy or learning difficulties. But this can be addressed a more streamlined approach to case handling and by use of plain English, easy read versions of documents decision making, and create an effective, high-impact, and using pictures instead of translation. My Department competition regime, in order that the CMA fully delivers will be practising what we preach in the materials we are the benefits envisaged by Government. producing as part of our Fire Kills fire safety education Parliamentary approval for resource cover of £30,000 campaign. for this new service will be sought in an estimate for the Stopping the automatic use of translation and Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Pending interpretation services into foreign languages will provide that approval, urgent expenditure estimated at £30,000 further incentive for all migrant communities to learn will be met by repayable cash advances from the English, which is the basis for an individual’s ability to Contingencies Fund. progress in British society. It will promote cohesion and better community relations. And it will help councils make sensible savings, at a time when every bit of the public sector needs to do its bit to pay off the deficit left COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT by the last Administration. For the avoidance of doubt, this statement effectively Translation into Foreign Languages replaces the Department’s “Guidance for Local Authorities on Translation of Publications” published under the last Administration in 2007. The Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government (Mr Eric Pickles): In February 2012, I published my Department’s approach to integration, “Creating the Conditions for Integration”and in December HOME DEPARTMENT 2012, I published “50 ways to save: examples of sensible savings in local government”. The latter recommends: “Stop translating documents into foreign languages: Only publish Carriers’ Liability Consultation documents in English. Translation undermines community cohesion by encouraging segregation. Similarly, do not give community grants to organisations which promote segregation or division in The Minister for Immigration (Mr Mark Harper): society”.” Border security is vital for the UK. While it is right that I would like to reaffirm my Department’s approach the Government are in the lead on this, carriers and the to the use of translation and interpretation services for transport sector as a whole have an important role to foreign languages by local authorities. play. We are therefore strengthening our partnership Some local authorities translate a range of documents with this sector on a broad range of border security and other materials into languages spoken by their residents, issues. We are today launching a consultation on a and provide interpretation services. While there may be package of proposals around the liability of carriers for 7WS Written Ministerial Statements12 MARCH 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 8WS bringing undocumented passengers to the UK. This I remain committed to taking forward the lessons consultation is an important part of this partnership learned from both this report and from the wider reviews process. which are ongoing in relation to historic child abuse. We The cost to the UK of undocumented passengers can need to ensure the law enforcement response to these be high as many go on to claim asylum. There can also terrible crimes is as good as it can be, to protect victims be a security risk as individuals wishing to come here and deliver justice. As I have previously made clear in for organised crime or terrorism purposes may view this this House, the safeguarding of victims must be placed as a potential method of entry. The policy objective of at the heart of our approach. If someone has been the the proposals is to reduce the number of passengers victim of abuse and makes a report to the police, those arriving in the UK without proper documentation, and in a position of authority and responsibility must not to do this by working in partnership with carriers. shirk in their duty to protect. The consultation document includes two key proposals. I am committed to ensuring that we also learn the The first is to increase the level of the carriers’ liability lessons from this work to ensure that these mistakes charge from £2,000 per undocumented passenger to could not be repeated today. HMIC will soon commence £7,000. While this is a significant increase, the charge a further review into child sexual abuse and sexual level has been at £2,000 for more than 20 years and no exploitation which will focus on the adequacy of current longer reflects the costs and risks involved. The second processes and practices in police forces. The Director of is to introduce a new approved route incentives scheme Public Prosecutions has outlined further measures to for carriers. This includes a number of charge waivers if overhaul the way our criminal justice system responds the carrier is engaging effectively with us on border to victims of child sexual abuse. And I have asked my security issues, including document checking and data officials to conduct a thorough review of Home Office submission. policies to ensure a robust and strengthened longer-term The consultation will last for four weeks and is targeted approach to delivering child protection within the at airline and ferry companies, industry representative Department and the police. This urgent work will ensure bodies and passenger groups. The consultation document that the interests of victims are prioritised and the is available on the Home Office website and we have specific vulnerabilities of children are recognised and also placed copies in the Library of the House. addressed.

HMIC Review (Jimmy Savile) WALES The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May): On 7 November 2012 I formally National Assembly for Wales (Electoral Arrangements) commissioned Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary (HMIC) to conduct a review to assess police knowledge of and response to the historical allegations made against The Secretary of State for Wales (Mr David Jones): In Jimmy Savile and related individuals, and potentially May 2012, the Wales Office published “A Green Paper into similar allegations against other individuals. on future electoral arrangements for the National Assembly In particular, I asked that the review establish clearly for Wales” (Cm 8357). It sought views on four issues: which forces received reports or allegations in respect whether the link between parliamentary constituencies of Savile and related individuals prior to the launch of and constituencies for elections to the National Assembly Operation Yewtree on 5 October 2012. For each of those for Wales, a link broken as a result of the Parliamentary forces, I asked HMIC to review the extent to which the Voting System and Constituencies Act 2011, should be allegations were robustly investigated and whether there reinstated; whether the length of an Assembly term were any police failings in doing so. HMIC has concluded should be moved from four to five years; whether the its review and today published its report. A copy will be prohibition on a candidate at an Assembly election placed in the House Library. standing in both a constituency and a region should HMIC conducted enquiries in all 43 police forces in end; and whether Assembly Members should not also England and Wales, and liaised with HMIC Scotland be able to sit in Parliament. and the States of Jersey Police. Its review finds that, as A three-month consultation on these proposals ended far as police records disclose, five allegations of child in August 2012, and the Wales Office published a summary sexual assault were made against Savile to the police of consultation responses in November. I am today between 1958 and 2009. In addition to these recorded announcing how the Government intend to proceed in allegations, the Metropolitan Police Service (MPS) has light of the consultation response. traced two historical intelligence entries relating to Savile. As a result of the Electoral Registration and HMIC’s report makes it clear that failures by police Administration Act 2013, the four UK boundary forces, particularly in respect to the quality of investigations commissions will now report in 2018 on their and the sharing of intelligence, enabled Savile to act recommendations for new parliamentary constituencies. with impunity for over five decades. It is also clear from The boundaries of parliamentary and Assembly the report that Savile could and should have been constituencies will remain the same until then, and apprehended earlier and that there is more to do to there is no longer an immediate need to re-establish the ensure that the police have a fully effective and victim- link between the two sets of constituencies. The Government centred approach to tackling child abuse. HMIC raises do not therefore intend to proceed with the changes to the possibility that such failures could be repeated. It Assembly constituencies proposed in the Green Paper. calls for preventative action, and the report makes a We do, however, intend to take forward the three number of specific recommendations which fall largely other proposals in the Green Paper. First, we will move to police forces and the College of Policing. the Assembly from four to five-year fixed terms. The 9WS Written Ministerial Statements12 MARCH 2013 Written Ministerial Statements 10WS term of the current Assembly is, exceptionally, five protected. We have agreed with local authority organisations years, but the Assembly is set to revert to four-year improved arrangements through these regulations that terms after the next Assembly elections in 2016. A puts these protections beyond doubt. permanent move to five-year terms would make The changes will apply to tenants in both the social a coincidence between parliamentary and Assembly and private rented sectors. elections in 2020 (and every 20 years thereafter) less likely. I am also issuing guidance to local authorities emphasising that discretionary housing payments remain Secondly, we will end the prohibition on candidates available for other priority groups including the needs at Assembly elections standing in both a constituency of people whose homes have had significant disability and a region at the same time. The Government believe adaptations and those with long-term medical conditions that, in principle, candidates should not be barred from that create difficulties in sharing a bedroom. standing in a constituency and a region, and the current prohibition impacts disproportionally on smaller parties. Going forward I will continue to closely monitor and Thirdly, we will prohibit Assembly Members from adjust the implementation of the policy, including an simultaneously sitting as Members of the House of independent evaluation by Ipsos MORI, the Cambridge Commons. The Government do not believe that one centre for housing and planning research and the Institute person can adequately serve two sets of constituents. For Fiscal Studies to ensure that the needs of these This prohibition would not apply to Members of the groups are effectively addressed in the longer term. House of Lords. This ensures this policy focuses on the key aim of The Government will bring forward legislation to bringing housing benefit expenditure under control. effect these changes at the earliest opportunity. Under the previous Government, housing benefit almost doubled in 10 years to £20 billion, with households living in homes that are too big for them, while there are 2 million households in England on waiting lists, and WORK AND PENSIONS 250,000 families living in overcrowded accommodation.

Housing Benefit Reform

The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mr Iain DEFENCE Duncan Smith): I am pleased to announce that we intend to lay amending regulations to clarify the size criteria rules for two specific groups of housing benefit recipient, foster carers and armed forces personnel. Reserves Call-Out Order People who are approved foster carers will be allowed an additional room, whether or not a child has been placed with them or they are between placements, so The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew long as they have fostered a child, or become an approved Robathan): A new call-out order has been made under foster carer in the last 12 months. section 56(l)(a) of the Reserve Forces Act 1996 to enable reservists to be called out into service as part of Adult children who are in the armed forces but who the UK’s contribution to operations in support of UN continue to live with parents will be treated as continuing Security Council Resolution (UNSCR) 2085, the EU to live at home, even when deployed on operations. This training mission and specific French requests for support means that the size criteria rules will not be applied to in Mali. the room normally occupied by the member of the armed forces if they intend to return home. In addition We anticipate the call-out of a small number of housing benefit recipients will not be subject to a non- reservists with very specialised skills. At the moment dependent deduction, that is, the amount that those this will affect three reservists being mobilised to deploy who are working are expected to contribute to the to Mali and three reservists being mobilised for service household expenses, until an adult child returns home. within the United Kingdom. The mobilisation will allow The intent of the policy was that by using discretionary them to have the protection provided by the Reserve housing payments, the estimated 5,000 foster carers and Forces Act 1996. rather fewer armed forces personnel groups would be The call-out order is effective until 10 March 2014.

127W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 128W Written Answers to Coal Grahame M. Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change what steps his Questions Department plans to take to safeguard critical mass in the British coal industry. [146638] Tuesday 12 March 2013 Mr Hayes: Coal generation currently provides around a third of our electricity supplies, with British mines contributing around 40% of feedstock to our coal-fired LEADER OF THE HOUSE power stations in 2012. Official Cars Coal power stations, equipped with carbon capture and storage (CCS), can continue to play a significant Diana Johnson: To ask the Leader of the House how role as part of a future low carbon energy mix. The often he has used the Government Car Service in (a) Government has put in place a comprehensive programme March to September 2012 and (b) September 2012 to of measures to bring forward a cost competitive CCS March 2013; how many journeys he has made using the industry including a £1 billion commercialisation Government Car Service in each period; what the (i) programme, £125 million for research and development staffing and (ii) vehicle cost has been as a result of and reform to the electricity market. official car use in those periods; and how many official The Government values the role of British coal in engagements he has undertaken outside of meeting our energy needs. It meets regularly with Westminster in each such period. [147417] representatives of the coal industry and its customers, Mr Lansley: The Office of the Leader of the House and discussions include the need for investor confidence of Commons is part of the Cabinet Office and under in a continuing market for British coal to sustain the their arrangements I have the shared use of a departmental industry. car. The Department’s current work with UK Coal I also refer the hon. Member to the answer by the Operations Ltd in the light of the recent underground Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General, fire at Daw Mill demonstrates our interest in the ongoing my right hon. Friend the Member for Horsham (Mr contribution coal can make to meeting current energy Maude), of 13 February 2013, Official Report, column needs. 720-21W. The cost of Government cars is published Energy Companies Obligation annually and costs for 2012-13 will be published in due course. Details of individual trips are not recorded. Luciana Berger: To ask the Secretary of State for In the period I have been in post I have undertaken 10 Energy and Climate Change (1) how many households official engagements outside Westminster. have had heating, draught proofing or cavity wall measures installed through the affordable warmth element of the Energy Company Obligation in (a) ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE January and (b) February 2013; [147608] (2) how many households have had heating, draught Carbon Monoxide: Alarms proofing or cavity wall measures installed through the Energy Company Obligation in (a) January 2013 and Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for (b) February 2013; [147609] Energy and Climate Change what estimate he has made of the proportion of domestic premises which have (3) how many households in (a) total, (b) the carbon monoxide alarms fitted. [147023] private rented sector and (c) the owner-occupier sector had energy efficiency measures installed through the Gregory Barker: I refer the hon. Member to the Energy Company Obligation in (i) January 2013 and answer I gave her on 23 February 2013, Official Report, (ii) February 2013; [147610] column 236W. (4) how many households in hard-to-treat housing Carbon Reduction Commitment Scheme had energy efficiency measures installed through the Energy Company Obligation in (a) January 2013 and Mr Burley: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy (b) February 2013. [147611] and Climate Change what reports he has received of Gregory Barker: The Department will release the first whether Cannock Chase District Council has made any official statistics on the number of measures installed payments under the carbon reduction commitment through the Energy Company Obligation, the detail of scheme in each of the last five years. [147632] breakdowns to be decided, in June 2013. Gregory Barker: The CRC Energy Efficiency scheme, Energy: Billing required participants to register for the scheme in 2010, based on their 2008 energy usage (where that exceeded a Glyn Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy qualification threshold of 6,000 MWh). Cannock Chase and Climate Change whether he plans to require district council (CCDC) did not register for the CRC energy suppliers to publish the unit costs of individual Energy Efficiency scheme. renewable types of generation on energy bills. [146684] A list of those that have reported and paid for allowances Mr Hayes: The Secretary of State for Energy and for 2011-12 (the first year allowances were brought) is Climate Change, my right hon. Friend the Member for available on the Environment Agency website at: Kingston and Surbiton (Mr Davey), does not require http://crc.environment-agency.gov.uk/pplt/web/plt/public/ energy suppliers to publish the unit costs of individual 2011-12/CRCPerformanceLeagueTable20112012 renewable types of generation on energy bills. 129W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 130W

Wind Power Higher education institutions are independent and autonomous. It is for them to decide how they manage Glyn Davies: To ask the Secretary of State for Energy their assets and deliver learning to meet the needs of and Climate Change what consideration he has given their students. The plan for the relocation of teaching to requiring a decommissioning bond to be attached to facilities at Birmingham City University’s North campus all wind farm applications before any application is is a matter for the institution’s governing body.Government considered. [146890] cannot intervene in these decisions. Gregory Barker: Onshore, wind farm developers make Car Tax decommissioning arrangements with the relevant local planning authorities and other parties who have a particular John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for interest, for example, the landowner. Decommissioning Transport pursuant to the answer of 4 March 2013, conditions are applied to onshore wind farm planning Official Report, column 772W, on car tax, when the permissions to ensure restoration of the site to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency advice was satisfaction of the local authority once the planning revised; and if he will publish the revised advice. permission lifetime has expired. It is common practice [146954] for developers to enter into agreements pursuant to section 106 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990 Stephen Hammond: The advice that the Driver and to ensure funds are available for such decommissioning Vehicle Licensing Agency provides to the parent or work. carer of a disabled person who has passed away was Offshore, the statutory decommissioning scheme for revised on 6 February 2013. Officials now advise that renewable energy installations provides security that no enforcement action will be taken within a reasonable their removal can be undertaken by developers. Under period. The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency is sections 105 to 114 of the Energy Act 2004, the Secretary considering how to communicate this revised guidance of State may require a person who is responsible for one more widely. of these installations to submit (and eventually carry High Speed 2 Railway Line out) a decommissioning programme for them, and to submit details of the security they propose to provide with their decommissioning programme. Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what estimate he has made of the average Both of these regimes provide for the use of bonds if value of land per acre along the preferred route of appropriate in the circumstances. The Government phase two of High Speed 2. [147184] considers that these arrangements are sufficient to ensure that suitable decommissioning provisions are in place Mr Simon Burns: HS2 Ltd’s published costs and risk and so does not feel that requiring a bond at the point model report sets out an estimate of the land costs of application is necessary. along the preferred route of phase two of £870 million. This estimate will evolve over time as our proposals for phase two are developed following consultation later ATTORNEY-GENERAL this year.

Beef: Horse Meat Jeremy Lefroy: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what his Department’s calculation is of the Mary Creagh: To ask the Attorney-General whether cost per mile of the building of phase two of High his Department has sought legal advice with regard to Speed 2. [147186] (a) police investigations into the horsemeat scandal and (b) the naming of companies implicated in the Mr Simon Burns: As detailed in the January 2013 horsemeat scandal. [147547] Command Paper “High Speed Rail: Investing in Britain’s The Solicitor-General: My office has not sought any Future—Phase Two: The route to Leeds, Manchester legal advice in relation to this matter. The Environment, and beyond”, the Government’s initial preferred route, Food and Farming Unit of the Crown Prosecution station and depot options for Phase Two are now estimated Service (CPS) is providing the police with advice on at around £16.8 billion, without the spur to Heathrow. their current investigations. These investigations are This includes allowances for risk and optimism bias. ongoing and it would be inappropriate to offer further The length of the Western Leg of Phase 2 is 95 miles, comment on this matter. and the Eastern Leg, 116 miles. Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what steps his Department is taking to TRANSPORT ensure that the processes being followed on High Speed Birmingham City University 2 comply with section 85 of the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 on the protection of areas of Mr Khalid Mahmood: To ask the Secretary of State outstanding natural beauty; and if he will make a for Transport what steps he is taking to limit the statement. [147302] negative effects of the loss of Birmingham City University’s City North campus to Birmingham Perry Mr Simon Burns: As set out in the response to the Barr constituency and businesses in that area. [146742] 2011 consultation, ‘High Speed Rail: Investing in Britain’s Future—Decisions and Next Steps’ the Government Mr Willetts: I have been asked to reply on behalf of considers that HS2 is consistent with section 85 of the the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000. 131W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 132W

Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Rail Transport what recent discussions his Department has had with HS2 Limited about the Chilterns Tunnel Jonathan Reynolds: To ask the Secretary of State for Alternative Report produced by Peter Bretts Transport what recent discussions he has had on Associates; and if he will make a statement. [147303] additional rolling stock for the Northern Franchise. [147353] Mr Simon Burns: HS2 Ltd and the Department have regular discussions on the developing design for HS2 Mr Simon Burns: Department for Transport officials Phase One. Officials in my Department are aware of the are currently considering options with local stakeholders contents of the report and the discussions that HS2 Ltd for the provision of additional rolling stock on the have had with the Chilterns Ridges Action Group. Northern Franchise following completion of electrification. A final decision will be made based on the value for Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for money and affordability of the options available. Transport how much his Department has spent on the Roads: East Sussex High Speed 2 Judicial Review process to date; and if he will make a statement. [147304] Caroline Lucas: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Simon Burns: To date, the Department has spent Transport pursuant to the answer of 6 February 2013, £294,717 (exc. VAT) on the High Speed 2 Judicial Official Report, column 247W, on roads: East Sussex, if Review, in addition to DFT staff salary costs. he will (a) publish and (b) place in the Library a copy of the documents relating to funding for the Bexhill Hastings Link Road and alternative transport Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for measures, without any redaction of content under the Transport (1) what additional budget has been headings of (i) recommendations, (ii) timing and (iii) allocated to HS2 Limited to support changes to the emerging options sent to Ministers in his Department High Speed 2 Phase One design specification since on 14 March 2012 and 19 March 2012; and if he will January 2012; and if he will make a statement; [147305] make a statement. [146994] (2) what additional budget has been allocated to HS2 Limited to support mitigation proposals for High Norman Baker: The Information Commissioner’s Office Speed 2 Phase One since January 2012; and if he will is currently considering an appeal against the redactions make a statement; [147306] in the published versions of the documents dated 14 (3) whether the total cost of the High Speed 2 Phase March and 19 March 2012 to which the hon. Member One preferred line of route has increased in the last refers, and we await their findings. 12 months; and if he will make a statement. [147307] The Department took the decision to withhold the information as it falls under the exception in Regulation Mr Simon Burns: The previous Secretary of State for 12(4)(e) of the Environmental Information Regulations Transport, my right hon. Friend the Member for Putney 2004, because it involves the disclosure of internal (Justine Greening), published estimated costs for Phase communications relating to the formulation or development One at the time of announcing her decision to proceed of government policy and government decision making. with HS2, in January 2012. These were early stage In applying this exception the Department had to balance estimates, and HS2 Ltd are continuing to refine designs the public interest in withholding the information against in more detail to take account of site survey and other the public interest in disclosure. locally-specific issues as well as developing thinking on The Department gave regard to the Regulations and how future services and systems will operate. to wider government policy and guidance—including Cost estimates are continuing to evolve as a consequence the Ministry of Justice “working assumption” that of this work, and the Department is working closely information presented to Ministers as policy advice, with HS2 Ltd to ensure that robust cost controls are in recommendations, suggested options, and opinions should place throughout this process. not be disclosed. The Department concluded that the Overall cost estimates will be updated to inform the factors above outweigh the benefits of disclosure and Estimate of Expense deposited with the hybrid Bill later that it would not be in the public interest to release the in 2013. information as it would seriously impact on the decision and policy making process in relation to the ongoing issue of funding this scheme and, more widely, other Mrs Gillan: To ask the Secretary of State for transport schemes. Transport what steps his Department is taking to ensure that the High Speed 2 Phase One environmental Roads: Safety impact assessment consultation complies with the Aarhus Convention on Access to Information, Public Eric Ollerenshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for Participation in Decision-Making and Access to Justice Transport how his Department is co-operating with the in Environmental Matters; and if he will make a Department for Education to promote road safety in statement. [147310] schools. [147521]

Mr Simon Burns: The Department and HS2 Ltd have Stephen Hammond: The THINK! road safety campaign recognised and actively considered the requirements set provides a range of resources to enable teachers to out in the Aarhus Convention and how they apply to deliver road safety education to children and teenagers HS2 as part of their work programme for the environmental in schools. These include lesson plans, printed materials statement and the hybrid Bill. and interactive games. 133W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 134W

To improve on this, a school engagement strategy is has also published advice in its Guidance Notes (issue under development and the THINK! team will be ten: July 2012), setting clear technical standards and consulting with the Department for Education to ensure stipulating that “a warning (of flashing images) should a co-ordinated, cost-effective and impactful strategy is only be used in place of adherence to the guidelines delivered. where it is editorially justified”. Ofcom’s guidelines are In the first phase of the work the THINK! team has based on scientific research. engaged with organisations such as the National Union Pornography: Internet of Teachers and the National Governors Association to understand factors that impact on road safety education Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for Culture, in schools including time, resources, IT facilities and Media and Sport if she will require internet service current use of THINK! materials. providers to introduce a default opt-in filter system for All of this information will be used to help develop access to adult content on the internet. [146984] more effective road safety resources for use by key partners such as teachers, school group leaders and Hugh Robertson: The Government has, in its response road safety officers and ensure that effective road safety to the Department for Education’s consultation on messages are delivered to young people. internet parental controls published in December last year, asked all internet service providers to actively This stakeholder activity will launch in the early encourage people to switch on parental controls if children summer. are in the household and will be using the internet. Shipping: Registration “Actively encourage” means making the decision of whether to set up parental controls is an unavoidable Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for step for parents. Transport what assessment he has made of the number In addition, the Government has asked that internet of vessels which might flag out if the Maritime Labour service providers put in place appropriate measures to Convention is not ratified by the UK. [147298] check that the person setting controls is over the age of Stephen Hammond: The Department has not made 18 and is pressing for all of the information and an assessment because we are committed to taking communications technology (ICT) industries, including forward all the legal provisions necessary to allow the retailers and device manufacturers, to work together to UK to ratify the Maritime Labour Convention, 2006. develop universally-available, family-friendly internet We expect to ratify the convention in August 2013. access which is easy to use. Public Libraries: Internet John McDonnell: To ask the Secretary of State for Transport what discussions he has had with ministerial Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for colleagues in the (a) Cabinet Office and (b) Culture, Media and Sport how many public libraries Department for Business, Innovation and Skills currently provide free internet access; and if she will regarding the timetable for UK ratification of the publish a map showing all the public libraries that Maritime Labour Convention; and when he next currently provide such access. [147541] intends to hold such discussions. [147566] Hugh Robertson: The number of public libraries currently Stephen Hammond: Ministers from all three Departments providing free internet access is not held centrally, as it are engaged with the processes that are associated with is a matter for individual authorities. The Universal the implementation of the Maritime Labour Convention, Offers initiative launched, in January this year by the 2006, and will continue to be so. Society of Chief Librarians (SCL), commented that most public libraries provide digital access for the community and have done so for some time. The SCL CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT initiative, developed in partnership with Arts Council Digital Technology: Epilepsy England and The Reading Agency defines, as part of the Universal Digital Offer, the minimum that a public Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for library authority should provide and that customers Culture, Media and Sport what research her should expect from their public library. This includes Department has commissioned on the relationship free access to the Internet for every customer (for a between screen-based activity and the triggering of minimum period of time). epileptic fits; what advice and guidance is put out by the Department on this issue; what regulatory controls are under consideration to protect public health in this NORTHERN IRELAND respect; and if she will make a statement. [146833] Horse Meat

Hugh Robertson: I can confirm that DCMS has not Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for commissioned any research into the relationship between Northern Ireland whether there is an ongoing criminal screen-based activity and the triggering of epileptic fits. investigation in Northern Ireland into the illegal However, we believe there is well established regulation adulteration of horsemeat. [147548] and guidance in place with regards to this issue. Section 1 of the ITC Programme Code (which now represents Mike Penning: This is a devolved matter. The Northern Ofcom’s policy) sets out guidance on the use of flashing Ireland Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development images and regular patterns in relation to ‘Family Viewing made a Statement to the Northern Ireland Assembly on Policy, Offence to Good Taste and Decency, Portrayal 18 February in which she advised the Assembly that a of Violence and Respect for Human Dignity’. Ofcom criminal investigation was underway. 135W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 136W

The text of the statement can be found at the following by the end of this Parliament. HMRC is increasing the link: number of staff working on compliance and using http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/Assembly-Business/Official- innovative approaches to improve how it identifies and Report/Reports-12-13/18-February-2013/#1 tackles evasion. We will soon introduce the UK’s first General Anti-Abuse Rule, and HMRC will consult Organised Crime further on new information powers and penalties to target high-risk promoters. Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland on how many occasions (a) she and National Infrastructure Plan (b) Ministers in her Department have met the Northern Ireland Justice Minister to discuss (i) the 24. Geraint Davies: To ask the Chancellor of the proposed national crime agency and (ii) asset recovery Exchequer what recent progress has been made on in the last six months. [146884] implementing the national infrastructure plan. [147147]

Mrs Villiers: In the last six months the Minister of Danny Alexander: I refer the hon. Member to the State, Northern Ireland Office, my hon. Friend the answer I gave today to the hon. Member for Blaenau Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning), and I Gwent (Nick Smith). met regularly with the Northern Ireland Justice Minister Bank Services to discuss a range of issues, including the proposed national crime agency and asset recovery and continue to do so. Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of (a) the cost per switch to the current account provider that the customer is leaving and (b) the cost per switch to the TREASURY current account provider that the customer is moving to under the proposals for seven-day current account Bonuses: EU Limit switching. [147397]

20. Jacob Rees-Mogg: To ask the Chancellor of the Sajid Javid: The current account seven-day switching Exchequer what assessment he has made of the effect service is being delivered by the Payments Council on of Article 153 (5) of the treaty on the functioning of behalf of industry. the EU on the proposed limit to be placed on bonuses The Payments Council gave evidence on the new by the EU. [147142] switching service to the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards on 30 January 2013. Greg Clark: I refer my hon. Friend to the remarks I made to him in the Chamber today. A record of the full evidence can be found here: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/jt201213/jtselect/ Employment jtpcbs/c606-xxix/c60601.htm

21. Mr Amess: To ask the Chancellor of the Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the Exchequer what estimate he has made of the number of rate of employment growth in the UK. [147144] personal current account customers who will currently be unable to switch in seven days in September due to 22. Damian Collins: To ask the Chancellor of the their bank’s non-participation. [147399] Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the rate of employment growth in the UK. [147145] Sajid Javid: The current account 7-day switching service is being delivered by the Payments Council on Sajid Javid: The latest figures show the behalf of industry. largest annual increase in employment since 1989, The Payments Council estimate that 99% of all UK employment is now at its highest ever level of personal current accounts will be covered by the new 29.7 million. Furthermore, over 2012 full-time service. employment increased by 394,000 and this is the largest increase since 2005. This means that employment is Banks now over 300,000 higher than the OBR forecast in their June 2010 Economic and fiscal outlook, with a net Andrea Leadsom: To ask the Chancellor of the 1.1 million jobs created in the private sector since Exchequer what steps the Government is taking to 2010 Q1. review banking sector infrastructure. [147119]

Tax Gap Danny Alexander: HM Treasury works with the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority 23. Caroline Dinenage: To ask the Chancellor of the to ensure the resilience of critical financial Exchequer what steps the Government are taking to infrastructure, and produces an annual Finance Sector close the tax gap. [147146] Resilience Plan. An unclassified version is published each year on the Cabinet Office website. This is Mr Gauke: The Government has invested nearly available at: £1 billion in strengthening HM Revenue and Customs’ https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/ response to evasion and avoidance, and HMRC is on attachment_data/file/62312/Summary-2012-Sector-Resilience- course to bring in nearly £22 billion of additional tax Plans.pdf 137W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 138W

As the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced in The UK plays a leading role in supporting February, the Government also intends to bring developing countries to access sustainable sources of payment systems—the critical infrastructure that revenue, including through increasing transparency in ensures payments are able to move around the banking the extractives sector to address corruption. system—into regulation. An HM Treasury One of the Governments key priorities on tax and consultation on this will be released shortly. development is to ensure that developing countries can benefit from international advances on tax Banks: Computer Software transparency and exchange of information as these are important tools in identifying and tackling Derek Twigg: To ask the Chancellor of the international tax avoidance and evasion. Exchequer what recent assessment he has made of the increase in software update faults in the British Tourism banking sector that have caused account disruptions in their banking services during the last two years. Dan Jarvis: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer [147539] what estimate HM Treasury has made of the contribution of the tourism industry to the Sajid Javid: The Financial Services Authority Government’s target to double exports by 2020. (FSA)—and its successor body the Financial Conduct [147116] Authority (FCA)—work closely with banks to ensure that their systems are operating correctly, to resolve Hugh Robertson: I have been asked to reply on behalf any difficulties and to minimise disruption for of the Department for Culture, Media and Sport. customers. The FSA is working with the Royal Bank of Scotland Group (RBSG) following the problems In 2011, according to the Office for National experienced last week. Statistics (ONS) Balance of Payments, tourist and business spend contributed at least £22 billion towards Housing: Construction UK travel exports. The contribution of the sector to the economy continues to grow. According to the latest Mr Stewart Jackson: To ask the Chancellor of the figures from VisitBritain, the industry is projected to Exchequer what consideration he has given to tax achieve 33% growth in the number of international changes to facilitate development on undeveloped visits by 2020, up from 30 million to 40 million a year. residential housing sites with historic planning This will result in an extra £9 billion GDP contribution (today’s prices) to the economy, leading to the creation permission; and if he will make a statement. [147047] of 200,000 new jobs. Recent figures show that we are Danny Alexander: The Government has no intention on track to meet these targets. VisitBritain activity to introduce tax changes to facilitate development on delivered £503 million in incremental spend (financial undeveloped residential housing sites with historic year 2011-12) against a target of £373 million. The planning permission. The Government is instead domestic market is also showing significant growth. In focusing on other more effective measures to address the eight-month period from early March to the end of stalled sites such as renegotiation of unviable October, it is estimated that the ‘Holidays at Home are section 106 affordable housing agreements. GREAT’ campaign and other related VisitEngland activity has already generated incremental spend of Taxation: Construction almost £300 million, against a target of £500 million over four years.

Natascha Engel: To ask the Chancellor of the Trade Competitiveness Exchequer how many companies were fined for wrongly recording the employment status of their workers under the Construction Industry Scheme in Jessica Lee: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer each of the last five years. [147591] what recent assessment he has made of the UK’s business competitiveness. [147143] Mr Gauke: The information is not available and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. Mr Gauke: I refer my hon. Friend to the answer the Chancellor of the Exchequer gave earlier today to my Taxation: Developing Countries hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Claire Perry).

Sir Tony Cunningham: To ask the Chancellor of the UK Membership of EU Exchequer what steps his Department is taking to ensure UK-listed companies report more information Mr Bone: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer on their tax affairs in developing countries and pass what estimate he has made of the net cost to the UK of this information on to the relevant tax authorities. membership of the EU over the lifetime of this [147026] Parliament. [147405]

Mr Gauke: The UK supports requirements under the Greg Clark: Figures for the UK’s net contribution to EU accounting and transparency directives for the EU over the period 2005-06 to 2011-12 were extractives companies to ensure that they disclose the published in Table 3c (page 17) of “European Union payments they make to Government. This will Finances 2012” (Cm 8405), a copy of which can be significantly increase transparency for all EU-owned found in the House Library, also available online at: large extractive companies operating worldwide. http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/d/eu_finances_2012.pdf 139W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 140W

Forecasts of contributions to the EU were published by project. Where these are installed as part of a wider the OBR on 5 December 2012. This can be found in building project, both supply and installation is table 2.19 of “Economic and Fiscal Outlook standard rated for VAT. Supplementary Tables” at: HM Revenue and Customs publishes estimates of http://budgetresponsibility.independent.gov.uk/economic- the cost of tax allowances and reliefs to the Exchequer and-fiscal-outlook-december-2012/ in the table at the following address. The OBR will update its forecasts at the time of Budget http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/statistics/expenditures/table-b1.pdf 2013. The table shows that removing the existing reduced rate for the supply and installation of energy savings Unemployment: Young People materials for qualifying projects would generate approximately £20 million additional revenue per year (excluding allowances for behavioural effects). Steve McCabe: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer pursuant to the answer of 25 February The information on VAT receipts from total 2013, Official Report, column 197W, on purchases of energy saving materials is not available. unemployment: young people, how many young people However, an estimate of VAT receipts from energy have been supported by the Youth Contract in (a) saving materials subject to the reduced rate can be England, (b) the West Midlands and (c) Birmingham inferred using the information in the table above at to date. [146355] around £5 million per annum for 2010, 2011 and 2012. VAT: Tourism Mr Hoban: I have been asked to reply on behalf of the Department for Work and Pensions. Dan Jarvis: To ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer The Youth Contract has a number of elements; the what assessment he has made of the value of lowering Department for Work and Pensions delivers some, but VAT for businesses involved in UK tourism. [147532] not all, of these elements. Statistics on work experience and sector based work Mr Gauke: The Treasury has worked closely with academies are available at the following link. These industry representatives to consider the impact of a programmes were in place before the introduction of VAT cut for the tourism sector on growth and jobs. The the Youth Contract. Statistics on these elements of the conclusion the Government has reached is that a VAT Youth Contract are included within this published cut would not produce sufficient economic growth to data, which includes breakdowns such as age group or outweigh the revenue shortfall. A VAT cut for this region. sector would therefore need to be funded either by additional borrowing or by raising other taxes, both of http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/pwp/pwp_gbw_feb13.pdf which are likely to have a negative effect on the In most cases the wage incentive element of the economy. The Government therefore has no plans to Youth Contract is paid after a young person has been introduce a VAT cut for this sector. in work continuously for 26 weeks. Following the collection and quality assurance of this data, the first set of Official Statistics on the wage incentive should be available in the next few months. EDUCATION The Youth Contract also includes additional advisor Academies support for young people. There will be no official statistics on this element. Charlotte Leslie: To ask the Secretary of State for The support for 16 to 17-year-olds not in education, Education how many sponsor-led academy schools employment, or training (NEETs) element of the were judged (a) outstanding, (b) good, (c) Youth Contract is owned by the Department for satisfactory and (d) inadequate by Ofsted in each year Education. since 2008, broken down by academy sponsor. [143841] The Apprenticeship Grants for Employers (AGE Mr Laws [holding answer 25 February 2013]: This 16-24) element of the Youth Contract is owned by the question is a matter for Ofsted. HM Chief Inspector, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. Sir Michael Wilshaw, wrote to the hon. Member on 14 February. A copy of his response has been placed in VAT: Energy the House Libraries.

Luciana Berger: To ask the Chancellor of the Academies: Freedom of Information Exchequer (1) what estimate his Department has made of the amount of additional revenue that would be Tom Blenkinsop: To ask the Secretary of State for received by the Exchequer if the rate of VAT on energy Education what guidance his Department provides to saving materials was increased to 20 per cent; [146173] academies about responding to requests made under the Freedom of Information Act. [147231] (2) how much the Exchequer received in VAT receipts from purchases of energy saving materials in Elizabeth Truss [holding answer 11 March 2013]: (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012. [146172] The Department for Education (DFE) has produced a guide to help academies respond to requests made Mr Gauke: VAT is charged at the reduced rate of 5% under the Freedom of Information Act. The guide is on the supply and installation of certain energy-saving available for academies to download from the DFE’s materials when they are installed as a stand-alone website. 141W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 142W

Children: Poverty analysed to ensure that all important points are captured and used to help Ministers decide on the next Steve McCabe: To ask the Secretary of State for steps. Education how many and what proportion of three to Curriculum five-year-olds were living in (a) workless households and (b) relative poverty in the latest period for which Kevin Brennan: To ask the Secretary of State for figures are available; and if he will make a statement. Education for what reason there is a break between his [146899] Department’s consultation on the curriculum for key stages 3 and 4 and consideration of the programmes of Esther McVey: I have been asked to reply on behalf study at key stage 4. [146067] of the Department for Work and Pensions. The requested information for part (a) is produced Elizabeth Truss [holding answer 4 March 2013]: We by the Office for National Statistics and part (b) is are not consulting formally on the draft key stage 4 produced by the Department for Work and Pensions. programmes of study for English, mathematics and science as part of the current statutory consultation (a) The number of children aged three to five living in workless households in the UK is estimated at 17.4% (413,000 because we believe that it is important to consider the children) for the period of April to June 2012, this is the latest content of these programmes of study alongside period for which data is available. This data has been sourced the new requirements for the subject content of the from the Labour Force Survey and defines a workless household reformed GCSE qualifications in these subjects. This as a household that includes at least one person aged 16 to 64 will ensure that the curriculum and qualifications are where no-one aged 16 or over is in employment. fully coherent. We will, therefore, provide further (b) Table 1 following shows the number and proportion of details of the reformed GCSEs later this year and three to five-year-olds living in relative poverty on a Before launch the statutory consultation on key stage 4 Housing Costs basis in the UK for 2010-11, the latest period for programmes of study for English, mathematics and which figures are available. science once that information is in the public domain. Table 1: Number and proportion of three to five-year-olds living in relative We have, however, published these drafts alongside poverty, on a Before Housing Costs basis, United Kingdom, 2010-11 this consultation for illustrative purposes and Number (million) Proportion (%) respondents are can provide comments on them if they Three to 0.4 16 wish. five-year-olds Notes: Email 1. These statistics are based on Households Below Average Income (HBAI) data sourced from the 2010-11 Family Resources Survey (FRS). This uses disposable household income, adjusted using modified OECD equalisation Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for factors for household size and composition, as an income measure as a proxy Education what steps he is taking to discourage the use for standard of living. of private email accounts by Ministers and special 2. Net disposable incomes have been used to answer the question. This includes earnings from employment and self-employment, state support, advisers in his Department further to the Information income from occupational and private pensions, investment income and other Commissioner’s Good Practice Visit Findings sources. Income tax payments, national insurance contributions, council published on 15 December 2011. [146524] tax/domestic rates and some other payments are deducted from incomes. 3. Figures have been presented on a Before Housing Cost basis, in line with the relative child poverty target set out in the Child Poverty Act 2010. For Elizabeth Truss [holding answer 6 March 2013]: The Before Housing Costs, housing costs (such as rent, water rates, mortgage Secretary of State for Education, my right hon. Friend interest payments, buildings insurance payments and ground rent and service charges) are not deducted from income. the Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), and his 4. All estimates are based on survey data and are therefore subject to a special advisers use equipment and systems provided degree of uncertainty. Small differences should be treated with caution as by the Department and their own IT equipment as these will be affected by sampling error and variability in non-response. 5. The reference period for HBAI figures is the financial year. appropriate, depending on their location and 6. Numbers of children have been rounded to the nearest 100,000 children. circumstances. Where information is generated in the 7. Proportions of children in low-income households have been rounded to course of conducting Government business, it is stored the nearest percentage point. 8. Statistics covering 2010-11 are the most recent available. on departmental systems. This complies with the 9. Relative poverty is defined as being in a household with a household Information Commissioner’s recommendation that: income of less than 60% of contemporary median income. “Where necessity prompts the use of private email for Source: FRS 2010-11 departmental business, DfE guidance should be clear that a departmental email address must be copied in to ensure the Further information can be found in the Households completeness of the department’s records.” Below Average Income series published at: GCE AS-level http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/hbai/hbai2011/ index.php?page=contents Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for The 2011-12 edition of Households Below Average Education which university bodies supported the Income is due to be published by the Department of proposed measures to establish AS levels as a Work and Pensions in May/June 2013. stand-alone qualification. [145729] Income matters but considering this in isolation fails to properly reflect the reality of child poverty in the Elizabeth Truss [holding answer 1 March 2013]: I UK today. We want to develop better measures of child have discussed our plans for A level reform with a wide poverty which include income but provide a more range of organisations and individuals, including the accurate picture of the reality of child poverty. Our Russell Group and Universities UK. These discussions consultation on how best to measure child poverty and Ofqual’s consultation showed widespread support closed on 15 February. A large volume of responses for the AS level, so we are retaining it as a stand-alone was received and all of these are being read and qualification to support breadth. 143W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 144W

Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for reforms, and local authorities have played a crucial role Education what assessment he has made of the effect in shaping the draft Bill, including the Community of the proposed establishment of AS levels as a Protection Order (Public Space) which will replace dog stand-alone qualification on the take-up of each control orders. subject at AS level. [145730] British Nationality Elizabeth Truss [holding answer 1 March 2013]: The AS will be retained as a stand-alone qualification to Frank Dobson: To ask the Secretary of State for the offer breadth. It is for schools to determine the number Home Department pursuant to the answer of 4 March and range of AS qualifications they offer, based on 2013, Official Report, column 788W, on British their own school’s circumstances and the needs of their nationality, which of the litigations relating to Mahdi pupils. Hashi are within the jurisdiction of the British courts. [147537] Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Education (1) which universities use AS levels as a Mr Harper: Within the jurisdiction of the British means of assessing applicant potential for the purposes courts Mr Hashi has lodged an appeal with the Special of admission decisions; [145731] Immigration Appeals Commission. (2) what assessment he has made of the effect of the proposed establishment of AS levels as a stand-alone Children: Abuse qualification on universities’ ability to consider applicant potential. [145732] Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what proportion of her Elizabeth Truss [holding answer 1 March 2013]: We Department’s budget was allocated to tackling child know that universities use a range of information and abuse and the viewing of images of child abuse online evidence about applicants for admissions purposes. in each of the last five years. [146980] Even within individual universities, there may be a variety of approaches between subjects. Changes to the Mr Jeremy Browne: The Child Exploitation and AS and A levels mean that some universities may need Online Protection (CEOP) Centre is the UK’s national to make changes to admissions processes. However, law enforcement agency committed to preventing and Ofqual’s consultation on A level reform found that for tackling ,the sexual abuse of children in both the online many universities, the removal of AS would not have a and offline environments with the principal aim of major impact on selection processes. identifying, locating and safeguarding children and Schools: Redundancy young people from threat, harm and risk. Over the past five years, the Government has John Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for provided funding for the Centre of: Education how much money has been paid out from departmental funds to cover the cost of redundancies £ million in academies and free schools in the last two years. [122692] 2008-09 6.27 2009-10 6.353 Elizabeth Truss: The Education Funding Agency is 2010-11 6.44 responsible for the payment of redundancy and 2011-12 6.38 restructuring funding to open academies and free 2012-13 6.381 schools in accordance with the individual Funding Agreement. CEOP also has other sources of funding available to The amounts paid in 2011-12 and 2012-13 (to date) it, in addition to its Government funding. Close are as follows: partnership working with, among others, the private and voluntary sectors is key to its success. April 2011 to March 2012: £7,166,613 In addition, chief constables and police and crime April 2012 to date: £3,762,424. commissioners have their normal policing budget which they are able to use on the priorities for their forces. Any decision on funding or staffing for child HOME DEPARTMENT protection activity is a matter for the chief constables Anti-social Behaviour Bill (Draft) and police and crime commissioners for their area.

Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for the Civil Liberties Home Department what discussions Ministers in her Department have had with local authorities on the Ms Abbott: To ask the Secretary of State for the draft Anti-social Behaviour Bill and the intention in Home Department what steps she has taken to ensure that Bill to repeal dog control orders. [147074] that respect for civil liberties is considered at each stage of her Department’s policy-making process. [146985] Mr Jeremy Browne: Home Office Ministers have meetings with a wide variety of individuals and James Brokenshire: Since 2010, this Government has organisations as part of the process of policy taken a number of important steps to meet our strong development and details of these are published commitment to protect the hard won civil liberties of quarterly on the Cabinet Office website. We have UK citizens, including passing the Protection of consulted extensively on our antisocial behaviour Freedoms Act 2012. 145W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 146W

Respect for civil liberties is clearly a very important Total number of EEA foreign consideration during policy development in this nationals who were subject to removal department, an issue which will also be explored during Calendar year from the UK. any public consultation or the passage of any policy 2010 933 proposals through Parliament. 2011 1,148 2012 1,559 Communications Data Bill (Draft) The data in the following table shows the number of Katy Clark: To ask the Secretary of State for the offenders who are European economic area nationals Home Department what organisations or individuals who were removed from the UK after serving custodial she has met to discuss revisions of the draft sentences of less than 24 months in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 Communications Data Bill. [147371] and (c) 2012. The data for 2012 are correct as at 31 December 2012. James Brokenshire: Home Office Ministers and Total number of EEA foreign officials have meetings with a variety of organisations nationals subject to removal from the and individuals, as part of the process of policy UK after serving sentence of less development and delivery. Details of these meetings are Calendar year than 24 months published on the Cabinet Office website on a quarterly 2010 409 basis. 2011 542 2012 798 Customs: Drugs Please note that this is internal management Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for information and is subject to change. the Home Department how much illegal medication Detica has been confiscated at UK borders in each of the last five years. [145764] Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many BAE Systems Detica Mr Harper: Border Force does not specifically staff (a) are currently working on and (b) have record seizures of illegal medication. These are previously worked on the Communications Capability included, depending on the drug class, within other Development Programme. [147233] class A/B/C seizures as published in the Home Office Statistical Bulletin ‘Seizures of Drugs in England and James Brokenshire [holding answer 11 March 2013]: Wales’ which is accompanied by a Border Force The Communications Capabilities Development publication covering drugs seizures within the UK. The programme currently has a number of Detica (BAE Home Office bulletin is a yearly publication which Systems Detica) personnel deployed on the programme covers the last 10 years and the Border Force figures, through the Client-side Support Services contract, over which are published on a quarterly basis, cover 2011-12 the lifetime of the contract the number of personnel onwards. deployed has varied, responding to business need. Border Force figures http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitecontent/documents/ Entry Clearances: Overseas Students aboutus/drug-seizures/ Home Office statistics Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for the http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research- Home Department pursuant to the answer of statistics/research-statistics/police-research/hosb1212/ 21 January 2013, Official Report, column 12W, on hosb1212?view=Binary entry clearances: overseas students, (1) what the Border Forces does not hold specific data on seizures estimated completion date for the detailed planning of counterfeit medicines. that is being undertaken to assess the costs of the interviewing programme is; and what additional resources will be required; [146359] Deportation: Offenders (2) whether the out-of-country student visa interviews will be carried out entirely by UK Border Chris Bryant: To ask the Secretary of State for the Agency staff. [146360] Home Department (1) how many offenders who are European economic area nationals were subject to Mr Harper: Planning for the overseas interviewing removal from the UK in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) programme is progressing well, including working 2012; [143119] through the costs and resource requirements. The (2) how many offenders who are European economic staffing model for the programme will be confirmed in area nationals were subject to removal from the UK due course. after serving custodial sentences of less than 24 months in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 and (c) 2012. [143135] Human Trafficking

Mr Harper: The following table shows the number of Michael Connarty: To ask the Secretary of State for offenders who are European economic area nationals the Home Department which shelters for victims of who were removed from the UK in (a) 2010, (b) 2011 human trafficking the Minister for Immigration has and (c) 2012. The data for 2012 are correct as at visited since his appointment; and if she will make a 31 December 2012. statement. [146903] 147W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 148W

Mr Harper: Responsibility for support for victims of (2) how many in-country applications for further human trafficking rests with the Ministry of Justice. leave to remain as a spouse are being processed by the The Minister for Victims and the Courts, my hon. UK Border Agency; [143897] Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (3) what progress she has made in reducing waiting (Mrs Grant), visited a victims’ shelter on Anti-Slavery times for in-country applications for leave to remain as Day, 18 October 2012. I have not yet had the a spouse since service improvement plans for such opportunity to undertake such a visit. applications were implemented; [143898] Immigration: Applications (4) how many in-country applications for leave to remain as a spouse are held by the UK Border Agency; [143930] Keith Vaz: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many cases for applications for (5) how many in-country applications for leave to extensions for domestic servants are outstanding. remain as a spouse are outstanding (a) six months and [141049] (b) one year since the claimant’s biometrics were taken. [143931] Mr Harper: There were 704 overseas domestic workers applications awaiting a decision as of Mr Harper: The UK Border Agency does not hold 27 January 2013. the data in the format requested. Notes: 1. All figures quoted have been derived from management Independent Police Complaints Commission information and are therefore provisional and subject to change. This information has not been quality assured under National Statistics protocols. Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for the 2. Figures relate to main applicants only. Home Department whether she plans to (a) reduce 3. Figures relate to postal and premium applications. the number of managed investigations and (b) increase the number of independent investigations undertaken Immigration: EU Nationals by the Independent Police Complaints Commission. [146609] Priti Patel: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many nationals of other EU Damian Green: Responsibility for determining the member states who are classified as qualified persons mode of investigation in each individual case dealt with under the Immigration (European Economic Area) by the Independent Police Complaints Commission Regulations 2006 (a) have and (b) do not have (IPCC) lies with the IPCC. However, the Secretary of comprehensive sickness insurance cover in the UK; and State for the Home Department, my right hon. Friend how many such nationals (i) have and (ii) do not have the Member for Maidenhead (Mrs May), made clear to sufficient resources not to become a burden on the the House on 12 February 2013, Official Report, social assistance system of the UK. [143747] columns 713-14, that the Government intends to transfer resources from individual forces’ professional Mr Harper [holding answer 25 February 2013]: The standards departments and other relevant areas to the UK does not operate a system of mandatory IPCC in order to ensure that it has the budget and the registration for EU nationals, though many EU manpower that will enable it to do its work. nationals choose to apply to the UK Border Agency for documentation to evidence their rights. The UK Border Agency has strict checks in place to Members: Correspondence ensure that those EU nationals who apply for registration documentation meet the requirements set Mr Winnick: To ask the Secretary of State for the out in the Immigration (European Economic Area) Home Department if she will arrange for the hon. Regulations 2006, including where appropriate the Member for Walsall North to receive a reply from the requirement to hold comprehensive sickness insurance. Chief Executive of the UK Border Agency to his letter For those who do choose to make an application, the of 4 February 2013, CTS ref B3732/13. [147416] data requested is not recorded centrally and the cost required to answer this would be disproportionate. Mr Harper: The UK Border Agency replied to the Tackling the abuse of free movement rights and hon. Member on 8 March 2013. reducing the pull factors, which attract migrants to the UK are priorities for the Home Office. As part of this work, I am chairing a cross-Government group of Mental Health Services: Restraint Techniques Ministers to examine controls on immigrants’ access to benefits and public services. Steve Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department what guidance her Department has Immigration: Married People issued to police forces on operating protocols when restraining patients in mental health wards or Emily Thornberry: To ask the Secretary of State for hospitals; and if she will make a statement. [147338] the Home Department (1) how many in-country applications for further leave to remain as a spouse are Damian Green: Management of patients in hospitals outstanding (a) six months and (b) one year after the and other health care settings is the responsibility of claimant’s biometrics were taken; [143892] the relevant health care provider. 149W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 150W

Olaseni Lewis 2010-11 Number of Number of Weight of items seizures items seized seized (kg) Steve Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department when she expects the Independent Live animals and birds 8 1,620 n/a Police Complaints Commission to complete its review Parts and derivatives of 94 2,634 6.1 into the case of Olaseni Lewis who died in September animals or birds Preparations of 173 32,239 519.3 2010; and if she will make a statement. [147339] traditional medicines that include parts or Damian Green: The time scale for completion of this derivatives of review is an operational matter for the Independent endangered species Police Complaints Commission. The figures and the transcript of the Committee Organised Crime: Northern Ireland hearing can be found at: http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/ cmselect/cmenvaud/140/140.pdf Mr Hanson: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many meetings (a) she and UK Border Agency (b) Ministers in her Department have had with the Northern Ireland Justice Minister to discuss (i) the Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for the operation of the national crime agency and (ii) asset Home Department (a) what casework decisions are recovery proposals in the last six months. [146883] taken by and (b) what training is given to persons appointed as (i) administration officers and (ii) Mr Jeremy Browne: Home Office Ministers and executive officers on temporary contracts within the officials have meetings with a wide variety of UK Border Agency. [R] [147098] international partners, as well as organisations and individuals in the public and private sectors, as part of Mr Harper: Temporary caseworkers are in place in the process of policy development and delivery. Details several locations across the UK Border Agency and of these meetings are published on the Cabinet Office deal with applications for: settlement; leave to remain website on a quarterly basis. in the Family Route; Accession casework (Bulgaria and Romania); and in Tiers 1, 2 and 5 of the Points Based Seahorses: Smuggling System. Initial training for both Administrative Officers and Andrew Rosindell: To ask the Secretary of State for Executive Officers covers the immigration rules the Home Department how many seahorses have been relevant to their assigned route and familiarisation with confiscated at UK borders in each of the last five years. the relevant policy. This portion of the training lasts [145926] between two days and one week dependant on route and applies to both grades The subsequent mentoring Mr Harper: Border Force does not specifically period of between six to eight weeks consolidates the record the number of seahorses seized at the border but classroom training and also includes practical case groups them within: live animals and birds; parts and processing functions. derivatives of endangered species; or in preparations of Staff complete a number of mandatory courses traditional medicines that include parts or derivatives which are delivered by e-learning. These include Health of endangered species. The most recent published data and Safety, Information Storage and Management and on seizures, which was made available to the Training in the Safeguarding of Children. Environmental Audit Committee on Wildlife Crime, is as follows: 2008-09 ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS Number of Number of Weight of items seizures items seized seized (kg) British Overseas Territories Live animals and birds 37 1,212 n/a Parts and derivatives of 109 1,536 543 Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for endangered species Environment, Food and Rural Affairs how many Preparations of 63 4,435 309.3 full-time equivalent civil servants in his Department are traditional medicines working on matters related to the UK Overseas that include parts or derivatives of Territories. [147113] endangered species Richard Benyon: Issues relating to our UK Overseas Territories are dealt with by a number of DEFRA 2009-10 officials across a range of policy areas including project Number of Number of Weight of items seizures items seized seized (kg) funding through the Darwin Initiative (and the new Overseas Territories Environment and Climate Fund, Live animals and birds 21 563 n/a ‘Darwin Plus’), trade in endangered species, marine Parts and derivatives of 99 509 20,002.8 issues, migratory birds and invasive alien species. animals or birds DEFRA also leads on the UK Government’s Overseas Preparations of 119 812,117 1,141 traditional medicines Territories Biodiversity Strategy liaising closely with that include parts or Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Department derivatives of for International Development officials on a range of endangered species Overseas Territories issues. 151W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 152W

As such it is difficult to accurately quantify the Official Report, on tackling irresponsible dog overall time spent on Overseas Territories issues by ownership, when he plans to publish his draft updated DEFRA officials. While there are no staff dedicated to implementation guidance and training. [144908] working on Overseas Territory issues on a full-time basis, there is a dedicated focal point within the Mr Heath: Implementation guidance and training International Biodiversity Team. are in the process of being reviewed and revised by industry stakeholders. DEFRA plans to publish these Dangerous Dogs this year once they have been considered and agreed. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Dogs: Animal Welfare for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to the written ministerial statement of 6 February 2013, Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Official Report, on tackling irresponsible dog Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if he will review ownership, (1) if he will discuss with his counterparts his policy on the docking of tails of working dogs. in the devolved administrations the potential for a [147325] UK-wide microchipping database; [144899] (2) what assessment he has made of potential Mr Heath: The docking of dogs’ tails is covered by difficulties arising from cross-border issues in operating the provisions of the Animal Welfare Act 2006. The an England-only microchipping database; [144900] statute was last reviewed in 2010 by the Parliamentary (3) with regard to the one-stop 24 hour enquiry point Select Committee on the Environment, Food and Rural for microchipped lost and found dogs (a) when this Affairs and there are no plans to change the current will be operational, (b) who the service will be law. operated by and (c) who will finance the service. [144909] Food: Origin Marking

Mr Heath: There are no plans to introduce a single Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State England or United Kingdom wide database which for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what would be costly to set up. The four existing databases, bilateral trade agreements exist between the EU and that operate oh a United Kingdom wide basis, will other importing countries that allow for the continue to be used. DEFRA is now working with enforcement of European Protected Foods status. database providers to ensure minimum standards of [146380] service for commercial databases, including a one-stop 24 hour inquiry point (web portal) for lost and found Michael Fallon: I have been asked to reply on behalf microchipped dogs. Discussions are ongoing and of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. progress is being made by the existing databases to Bilateral agreements between the EU and third facilitate this service and further details should be countries are one of the key ways the EU implements finalised later this year. Cross border issues within the its strategy for the enforcement of intellectual property United Kingdom are being considered with the rights in third countries, including the intellectual devolved Administrations. property associated with protected food names. Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Bilateral trade agreements are just one form of EU for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to agreement which allow for the enforcement of EU the written ministerial statement of 6 February 2013, protected food name status. Such agreements in force Official Report, on tackling irresponsible dog include the EU-Korea Free Trade Agreement, the ownership, (1) what information his Department holds EU-Andean Community Free Trade Agreement on the proportion of dogs which are currently (provisionally applied with Peru only so far), and the EU-Chile Free Trade Agreement. microchipped; [144906] (2) what level of microchipping would constitute a In addition there are bilateral trade agreements pending implementation or agreements largely high compliance rate. [144907] implemented but with the chapter(s) relevant to EU Mr Heath: This information is set out in the draft protected food name status still pending. These include impact assessment published in April 2012. It is the EU-Caribbean Economic Partnership Agreement, estimated that 58% of dogs in England are currently the EU-Central Africa Economic Partnership microchipped with the preferred option leading to 80% Agreement, the EU-Singapore Free Trade Agreement of currently un-microchipped dogs becoming and the EU-Ukraine Deep and Comprehensive Free microchipped. The Government, working with animal Trade Agreement. welfare charities and others, is making the provision of Bilateral agreements specifically relating to microchipping as simple and cheap as possible. In geographic indicators (which may include GIs applying addition, any owners of dogs that are brought to the under the protected food names scheme) exist between attention of the authorities and that are not the EU and third countries. Examples include microchipped after April 2016 will be reminded about agreements with China, Georgia and Moldova. the law and that the cost of microchipping is cheaper than paying a fine. Horse Meat

Huw Irranca-Davies: To ask the Secretary of State Miss McIntosh: To ask the Secretary of State for for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs pursuant to Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what tests have the written ministerial statement of 6 February 2013, taken place in each of the last three years in the UK on 153W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 154W

(a) horsemeat destined for the human food chain, (b) Rabies the duplication of horse passports and (c) horse abattoirs. [145219] Jim Fitzpatrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs when his Mr Heath: The Veterinary Medicines Directorate Department will announce proposals on a UK rabies (VMD) is responsible for implementation in the UK of strategy. [146516] the statutory residues surveillance programme required by Council Directive 96/23/EC. Set out in the following Mr Heath: Arrangements for managing a rabies incident table are the number of samples taken from horses in in the UK are set out in the Rabies Control Strategy for UK abattoirs and the number of positive results for England and Wales, the Scottish Government’s Rabies veterinary medicine residues and other substances from Control Strategy and, in Northern Ireland, by the 2010 to 2012: Department for Agriculture and Rural Development’s Rabies Disease Control Strategy. Number of samples Number of VMD tested for In the event of a rabies incident in the UK, there samples tested phenylbutazone Positive samples would be a co-ordinated approach to disease control 2010 94 60 5 (phenylbutazone) and eradication, with close working between each country’s Administration and operational partners. These arrangements are set out in the Great Britain and 2011 102 68 1 (phenylbutazone) Northern Ireland Contingency Plan for Exotic Notifiable Diseases of Animals. 2012 182 1158 5 (phenylbutazone NSS2) Special Areas of Conservation 4 (phenylbutazone FSA) 2 (cadmium) Mr Bradshaw: To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what proportion 1 (ibuprofen) of the seabed within the UK’s Exclusive Economic 1 Includes the supplementary samples taken by the Food Standards Agency Zone is protected by Special Areas of Conservation. (FSA) in 2012. 2 National Surveillance Scheme (NSS). [147208] None of the follow-up investigations into the positive Richard Benyon: Within the UK Continental Shelf results revealed that a duplicate horse passport had Designated Area, 8.4% (over 875,000 sq km), is covered been issued. by European Marine Sites (Special Areas of Conservation Duplicate horse passports may be issued by approved and Special Protection Areas). The proportion of that passport issuing organisations where the original document area covered only by Special Areas of Conservation is has been lost but the animal’s identity can be established. 7.6%. Such documents are issued to exclude the animal from The area of English inshore waters covered by European slaughter for human consumption. It is an offence to Marine Sites is approximately 23%, 15.5% of which is apply for a duplicate passport in other circumstances contained within Special Areas of Conservation. and it is an offence to be in possession of a passport knowing it to be forged. Abattoirs operate under the supervision of the Food Standards Agency, who have staff on site during killing. INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT The Food Standards Agency is responsible for verifying Burma identity checks carried out by food business operators. Paul Blomfield: To ask the Secretary of State for Packaging: Recycling International Development how much the government of Burma spent on aid to internally displaced people in Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Karen State in 2012. [147035] Environment, Food and Rural Affairs what steps he is taking to ensure that revenue generated by the Mr Duncan: Neither Her Majesty’s Government nor packaging waste recovery note system is reinvested in the United Nations currently hold this information; the the UK’s recycling infrastructure. [146253] level of published data on Government expenditure in Burma is limited. Richard Benyon: The Producer Responsibility Obligations (Packaging Waste) Regulations 2007 (as amended) Developing Countries: Economic Situation established a market-based mechanism through which revenue is generated to support the collection and recycling Damian Hinds: To ask the Secretary of State for of packaging waste materials. The regulations require International Development (1) whether her reprocessors and exporters to submit a business plan Department has undertaken an analysis of any containing information on how their revenue will be correlation or causal relationship between economic invested in infrastructure and capacity for collecting, development and the rate of population growth; sorting, treating and reprocessing packaging waste, as [146886] part of their application for accreditation. (2) what comparative analysis her Department has As part of an ongoing review of the regulations, undertaken of the correlation between the level of DEFRA is considering options for improving the economic development and the rate of population transparency of funding flows. growth. [146887] 155W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 156W

Lynne Featherstone: DFID has not conducted its International Assistance own direct research or analysis, but instead uses the wealth of independent research and analysis undertaken Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for by a range of UK and international academic and civil International Development which (a) countries society organisations. received bilateral aid and (b) organisations received There is strong evidence, for example, that fertility multilateral aid from the (i) UK and (ii) EU in the last decline can help countries start a process of demographic three years; and how much aid was received in each transition following a period of population growth, such case. [147033] (where the working age population is increasing faster Mr Duncan: The publication ’Statistics on International than the population in less productive age groups). But Development (SID) 2012’ provides information on how turning this transition into a dividend of accelerated official UK financial resources for international economic progress depends on countries’ policies, including development are spent. Tables 16.2 to 16.6 provide a investment in education and training, to support increases breakdown of all countries in receipt of UK bilateral in employment. aid for each region for the calendar years 2007 to 2011. There is good evidence of a two-way causal relationship Table 18 provides information on organisations in receipt between economic development and population growth. of UK multilateral aid for the financial years 2007-08 to Fertility tends to decline as development expands, and 2011-12. development has often been described as the best These tables can be found at the following link: contraceptive. Increased employment of women and http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/How-we-measure-progress/ higher quality education and training may help inflate Aid-Statistics/Statistics-on-International-Development-2012/ the demographic dividend, while declining family sizes SID-2012-Tables-Index/ can make the escape from poverty more feasible and The EuropeAid Annual Report contains information typically improves schooling outcomes. Fertility reduction on the European Union’s development and external has a large, direct effect on maternal mortality and assistance policies and implementation. Table 5.11 (in enables women to participate more fully in life outside 2012 and 2011) and table 6.10 (in 2010) contain information the home. on the countries and multilateral organisations that receive ODA from the EU. The EuropeAid Annual Reports for 2010, 2011 and 2012 can be found at the G8 following link: http://ec.europa.eu/europeaid/multimedia/publications/ Ms Ritchie: To ask the Secretary of State for index_en.htm International Development what her priorities are in Overseas Aid relation to aid for the G8 summit in Northern Ireland. [146996] Mr Bone: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development how much was spent in Mr Duncan: As the Prime Minister said his speech cash terms on overseas aid in the last Parliament; and at the World Economic Forum in Davos, aid has how much she estimates will be spent in this played, and will continue to play, an important role in Parliament. [147595] development, but we want to use our G8 presidency to tackle the causes, and not just the symptoms, of poverty. Justine Greening: DFID’s publication ‘Statistics on Through addressing the key issues the Prime Minister International Development’ (SID) shows how official has outlined for the G8 in 2013—advancing trade, UK financial resources for international development ensuring tax compliance and promoting greater are spent. The total UK Gross Public Expenditure transparency—we can help to move the international (GPEX) on development aid for the last Parliament agenda forward, to focus on the underlying drivers of (2005-06 to 2009-10) was £35.3 billion. Total GPEX on growth and jobs which will lift people out of poverty for development aid for the current Parliament thus far good. (from 2010-11 to 2011-12) has been £18.0 billion. The Through this agenda, we will take action to promote total GPEX for each year 2005-06 to 2011-12 is shown greater transparency around the extractives industries, in the following table. The total GPEX on development in order to increase revenues from natural resources so aid for 2012-13 will be reported in ‘Statistics on international that they are available for investment in tackling the Development 2013’ when it is published in the autumn. issues that affect the poorest people. We will galvanise Budgets for 2013-14 and 2014-15 have been set to support for land transparency, to promote more responsible ensure the UK will meet the Government’s target of and productive investments in agriculture. We will also spending 0.7% GNI as Official Development Assistance work to help developing countries collect the tax they (ODA) in 2013 and 2014. are owed, and we will promote trade, to spur growth Total GPEX on development (£ and wealth creation. billion) We are also committed to tackling the problem of 2005-06 6.7 hunger in the year of our G8 presidency. We will build 2006-07 7.6 on last year’s Olympic Hunger Summit with a major 2007-08 6.0 hunger event on 8 June and we will take forwards the 2008-09 7.2 New Alliance for Food Security and Nutrition, which 2009-10 7.8 was launched at last year’s G8 and aims to lift 50 million 2010-11 9.0 people out of poverty over the next 10 years through 2011-12 9.0 sustainable agricultural growth. 157W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 158W

More information can be found at the following link: Total budget Total budget Total budget http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/How-we-measure-progress/ Total DFID as as as Aid-Statistics/ DEL budget percentage percentage percentage (£ million) of GNI of GDP of TME Palestinians 2002-03 2,898 0.26 0.27 0.69 2003-04 3,064 0.26 0.27 0.67 Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for 2004-05 3,349 0.27 0.28 0.68 International Development what assessment she has 2005-06 4,518 0.35 0.35 0.86 made of the humanitarian situation in the Occupied 2006-07 5,016 0.37 0.37 0.91 Palestinian Territories; and if she will make a 2007-08 5,277 0.36 0.37 0.90 statement. [147481] 2003-09 5,707 0.39 0.40 0.86 2009-10 6,726 0.47 0.48 0.95 Mr Duncan: The UK Government is deeply concerned 2010-11 7,545 0.50 0.51 1.04 by the humanitarian situation in the Occupied Palestinian 2011-12 7,830 0.51 0.51 1.07 Territories. Access to water and land in Area C of the Note: West Bank is restricted, causing loss of livelihoods and The figures given above differ from figures relating to total UK spending on high levels of food insecurity. The Palestinian Authority Official Development Assistance (ODA). UK ODA is reported on a calendar year rather than financial year basis and includes spend by other Government is unable to deliver basic education and health care Departments. Figures on UK ODA can be found at the following link: services. The situation in Gaza is also unsustainable. http://www.dfid.gov.uk/About-us/How-we-measure-progress/Aid-Statistics/ 44% of Gazans are food insecure and over 90% of the Statistics-on-International-Development-2012/ water from the Gaza aquifer is unsafe for human consumption without treatment. Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for International Development what her Department’s Plants budget per annum was since 1997. [147034]

Andrew Bridgen: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Duncan: The following table provides information International Development how much her Department about DFID’s budget in each year from 1997-98. spent on indoor and outdoor plants and trees in each year between 2005 and 2010. [147424] DFID Budget: Total DEL (£) 1997-98 1,685 Mr Duncan: DFlD’s expenditure on indoor and outdoor 1998-99 2,087 plants and trees at its two headquarters offices in East 1999-2000 2,316 Kilbride and London in each year was: 2000-01 2,445 2001-02 3,115 £ 2002-03 2,898 2005 2,223 2003-04 3,064 2006 1,231 2004-05 3,349 2007 1,328 2005-06 4,518 2008 1,014 2006-07 5,016 2009 0 2007-08 5,277 2010 0 2008-09 5,707 2009-10 6,726 Since 2010 there has been no expenditure on indoor 2010-11 7,545 and outdoor plants and trees. 2011-12 7,830 Note: Public Expenditure DEL refers to Department Expenditure Limits. This is the total spending limits for governmental Departments over a fixed period of time, excluding demand-led and exceptionally volatile items. DELs are planned and set at spending reviews. Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for This is split between resource and capital budgets. International Development what her Department’s budget as a percentage of (a) gross national income (b) gross public expenditure and (c) gross domestic DEFENCE product was in each year since 1997. [147032] Afghanistan Mr Duncan: The following table provides figures on Nicholas Soames: To ask the Secretary of State for DFID’s total budget as a proportion of gross national Defence how many service training teams are currently income (GNI), gross domestic product (GDP) and public in Afghanistan; where any such teams are based; and sector total managed expenditure (TME) for the financial what their tasks are. [147232] years 1997-98 to 2011-12. Mr Robathan: The information requested for the Total budget Total budget Total budget Total DFID as as as whole of Afghanistan or the International Security DEL budget percentage percentage percentage Assistance Force is not held centrally by the Ministry of (£ million) of GNI of GDP of TME Defence. Data provided is for the Task Force Helmand 1997-98 1,685 0.20 0.20 0.52 area of operations which includes the majority of UK 1998-99 2,087 0.23 0.23 0.63 forces deployed to Afghanistan. 1999-2000 2,316 0.25 0.25 0.68 Task Force Helmand has six Police advisory teams 2000-01 2,445 0.25 0.25 0.72 involved in the development of the Afghan National 2001-02 3,115 0.30 0.30 0.80 Police (ANP). Four of these teams are based in 159W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 160W

Lashkar Gah, one in Shawqat and one in Gereshk. The data collected on fitness levels and educational These teams assist the ANP in their training and use of attainment is used for the specific purpose of confirming enablers. an individual’s eligibility for service. Task Force Helmand currently has five Brigade advisory teams who work with the Afghan National Army to Armoured Fighting Vehicles support the transition of lead security responsibility. Three of these teams are based at Main Operating Base Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Price, one at Forward Operating Base Sparta and one at Defence what progress he has made on the Warrior Forward Operating Base Shawqat. Capability Sustainment programme; and if he will There is also one Brigade advisory team based outside make a statement. [147599] of Task Force Helmand’s are of operation in Camp Shorabak next to Camp Bastion. These teams are formed Mr Dunne: The Warrior Capability Sustainment advisory teams; a wide range of other units and individuals programme (WCSP) is on target to meet the approved provide partnering, advice and support to Afghan forces, in-service date of November 2018 and continues to in Helmand and elsewhere; for example, personnel assisting make good progress through the Demonstration Phase. the training of the Afghan Air Force. Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for Armed Forces: Pensions Defence what his plans are to replace or upgrade the Army’s mechanised and armoured personnel carriers; Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for and if he will make a statement. [147600] Defence (1) if he plans to review his policy on pension payments towards members of the armed forces who Mr Dunne: The Defence Equipment Plan 2012, published have an interrupted service career history; [146929] on the 31 January 2013, laid out the Ministry of Defence (MOD) future equipment investment plans. These plans (2) what his policy is on pension payments towards include an upgrade to our fleet of Warrior infantry those who have previously had a break in service in fighting vehicles, maintaining their capability with enhanced HM armed forces; and if he will make a statement. lethality out to 2040 and beyond. [146930] The continued development of the next generation of Mr Francois: Service personnel who are previous armoured fighting vehicles including specialist and utility members of the armed forces and who have preserved variants will also replace a wide range of legacy armoured benefits will retain these preserved awards and these and protected platforms. will be paid in accordance with the relevant scheme rules. Members of the Armed Forces Pension Scheme Challenger Tanks (AFPS) 75 or AFPS 05 are entitled to add these separate periods of service together if they so choose. This Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for means that when the pension becomes payable it will be Defence what plans he has to upgrade the anti-armour calculated on the total number of days reckonable lethality of Challenger 2. [147598] service from both periods of service. However, if a member of the scheme has more than one period of Mr Dunne: We are currently in the early stages of a previous service they can only add the last period of programme to extend Challenger 2 in service to 2035. service to their current service. The detailed scope and requirements for this Life Extension The new scheme will contain provisions to link service Programme are currently being investigated and specified. after a break of less than five years and members They will be considered at Initial Gate, currently scheduled transferring between public service schemes will be to take place in 2014. treated as having continuous service. This is set out in the final agreement on the main parameters of the new Federation of Small Businesses Armed Forces Pension Scheme to be introduced on 1 April 2015. Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence on how many occasions Ministers in his Armed Forces: Recruitment Department met with the Federation of Small Businesses in the latest period for which figures are Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for available. [146990] Defence what information his Department has collected in the last 10 years on the fitness levels and Mr Dunne: Since May 2010, Defence Ministers have educational attainment of young people wishing to join met representatives from the Federation of Small Businesses the armed forces; what assessment he has made of that (FSB) on seven occasions. On one occasion they attended information; and if he will make a statement. [147159] the Defence Suppliers Forum chaired by the Secretary of State for Defence which I also attended. There were Mr Francois: The services have collected information also six occasions when the FSB attended the Small and on fitness levels over the last seven years and on educational Medium Sized Enterprises Forum which I chair. qualifications over the past 10 years as part of the eligibility criteria for joining the armed forces. While Future Large Aircraft the required fitness level is broadly similar across the services, each specialisation has its own educational Mr Wallace: To ask the Secretary of State for criteria, ranging from nil to professionally qualified, as Defence what the timetable for delivery of the A400M a pre-requisite for joining a given branch or trade. aircraft is. [147573] 161W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 162W

Mr Dunne: The UK has ordered 22 A400M aircraft (2) how many members of Ministry of Defence with the first one due to be delivered by Airbus Military Police are employed to protect the UK’s nuclear in autumn 2014, and the final one in autumn 2021. deterrent; [147411] The following table shows the aircraft delivery schedule (3) how many members of the Ministry of Defence by calendar year: (MoD) Police have been stationed at MoD Faslane and Coulport since 2005; and how many such police are Calendar year Number of aircraft to be delivered projected to be stationed at those sites in (a) 2013, (b) [147412] 2014 3 2014 and (c) 2015. 2015 8 2016 6 Mr Francois: I am withholding the numbers of Ministry 2017 2 of Defence Police stationed at these sites for the purpose 2018 2 of safeguarding national security. 2019 0 2020 0 MOD Caledonia 2021 1 Thomas Docherty: To ask the Secretary of State for Germany Defence what estimate he has made of the number of Royal Navy personnel that will be based at MOD Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Caledonia in each year from 2013 to 2019. [147395] Defence how many spouses of service personnel are based in Germany. [146986] Mr Robathan: On current plans, some 95 Royal Navy personnel are expected to be based permanently at Mr Francois: As at 1 February 2013, there were MOD Caledonia in each year from 2013 to 2019. These approximately 6,370 spouses, including civil partners, figures do not include the crews on the two Queen of service personnel based in Germany. Elizabeth Class aircraft carriers under construction at Rosyth, as the number of personnel accommodated at GPT Caledonia will vary depending on the stage of the build.

Mr Sanders: To ask the Secretary of State for Pipelines Defence on which dates (a) officials and (b) Ministers in his Department have met representatives of (i) GPT Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Special Project Management Ltd and (ii) the Serious what the (a) process and (b) timescale are for the sale Fraud Office to discuss allegations of bribery by GPT of the Government pipeline and storage system. Special Project Management Ltd since 1 January 2012. [147602] [145308] Mr Dunne: Provisions to enable the sale of the Mr Dunne: Ministry of Defence (MOD) officials Government pipeline and storage system (GPSS) are meet regularly with representatives of GPT Special included in this Session’s Energy Bill. A decision to Project Management Ltd to discuss project progress, proceed with sale will not be made until the Bill has technical and commercial matters. Since 1 January 2012 been approved and the Government can be sure that no MOD officials or Defence Ministers have met with sale will deliver value for money. GPT Special Project Management Ltd, or the Serious Fraud Office to discuss allegations of bribery. The intention is to go to market to invite bids for the GPSS in early 2014. Iraq Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence Dr Huppert: To ask the Secretary of State for what safeguards will be in place within the sale of the Defence pursuant to the answer of 4 February 2013, Government pipeline and storage system to protect the Official Report, column 78W, on depleted uranium, interests of the public. [147603] whether his Department’s environmental monitoring of depleted uranium (DU) in Iraq is sufficiently Mr Dunne: Working with other Government detailed to support the belief that presence of DU are Departments and our advisers we are considering what at levels too low to have any detectable health impact additional safeguards, if any, will need to be put in on civilians in Iraq. [147176] place once the Government pipeline and storage system is sold to protect the interests not only of the public but Mr Robathan [holding answer 11 March 2013]: Yes. also customers, including the Ministry of Defence. All necessary safeguards will be identified prior to Military Police the start of the formal sale process and we expect they will be incorporated in the contractual arrangement Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for between the Department and the buyer. Defence (1) how many members of the Ministry of Defence Police were stationed at each service manned Nic Dakin: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence quarters in the UK in each year since 2005; and how what expectations he has for the potential level of many police will be stationed at each such site in each income which will accrue from the sale of the of the next three years; [147410] Government pipeline and storage system. [147604] 163W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 164W

Mr Dunne: The Ministry of Defence expects that the Date Minister Purpose of meeting sale of the Government Pipeline and Storage System (GPSS) will result in a capital receipt. I am withholding July 2010 Gerald Howarth MP Introductory meeting the information requested as its disclosure would prejudice November 2010 Peter Luff MP Introductory meeting commercial interests. October 2012 Philip Dunne MP Introductory meeting In addition I have met representatives of Ultra Electronics Reserve Forces: Railways at defence exhibitions in Bangalore (India) and in Abu Dhabi in February 2013. Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for There have been no meetings between special advisers Defence (1) what consideration he has given to and Mr Douglas Caster since May 2010. Information extending the HM forces rail card to reserve forces; about meetings that officials have had with Mr Caster [146926] since May 2010 could be provided only at disproportionate (2) what estimate he has made of the cost of cost. extending the HM forces rail card to reserve forces. Veterans [146927] Mr Jim Murphy: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Francois: The HM Forces railcard is a concession Defence if he will place a copy of his letter of granted by the Association of Train Operating Companies 25 February 2013 sent to the Shadow Secretary of (ATOC). Eligibility for these railcards is governed by a State and Shadow Minister for the Armed Forces on contract between the Train Operating Companies (TOCs) access by senior retired officers to his Department in and the Ministry of Defence (MOD), and any extension the Library. [146928] of the eligibility criteria to include Reserve Forces would require the full consent of the TOCs. As a commercial Mr Dunne: No. It is normal practice for follow-up organisation, ATOC has to carefully consider the financial letters to parliamentary questions to be published in the implications of issues such as ticket pricing and Official Report. I refer the right hon. Member to the railcards. While it would not be appropriate to comment answer I gave on 26 February 2013, Official Report, in detail on these commercial aspects, we understand columns 416-21W. that ATOC consider its current product range, including Veterans: Homelessness a variety of railcard products and advance tickets, with reduced fares, to represent a fair and appropriate balance Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for overall. Defence what estimate he has made of the number of MOD incurs no direct costs from the HM Forces homeless veterans in (a) Brigg and Goole constituency railcard concession and therefore no estimate has been and (b) Yorkshire and the Humber. [147404] made of the costs associated with an extension to Mr Francois: The Ministry of Defence does not include Reserve Forces. collect specific data on the prevalence of homelessness among veterans. Responsibility for housing ex-service Ultra Electronics personnel, and the issue of homelessness, lies with the Department for Communities and Local Government Mr Watson: To ask the Secretary of State for (DCLG). Defence (1) how many items of correspondence have However, we work closely with DCLG, the devolved been sent between his Department and representatives Administrations, ex-service organisations, service-providers of Ultra Electronics Holdings plc in the last two years; and charities to seek to ensure a co-ordinated and [147198] structured approach to the issue of housing former (2) what meetings (a) Ministers, (b) officials and members of our armed forces. (c) special advisers of his Department have had with Weapons Operational Centre Mr Douglas Caster, Chairman of Ultra Electronics Holdings plc, since May 2010. [147209] Mr Russell Brown: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what overtime costs have been incurred by the Mr Dunne: The Ministry of Defence currently has 44 Weapons Operational Centre in each month since April contracts with Ultra Electronics Holdings plc. Officials 2011. [147179] regularly correspond with representatives of the company Mr Dunne [holding answer 11 March 2013]: The on a wide range of issues. Records of correspondence overtime costs for the Defence Equipment and Support are not held centrally and could be provided only at Weapons Operating Centre in each month from April disproportionate cost. 2011 until January 2013 are shown in the following Ministers meet defence contractors to discuss a wide table. Figures for February 2013 are not yet available. range of issues. Details of all ministerial meetings with external organisations, including companies, are published £ million in the Ministry of Defence Transparency returns. Information can be found at the following address: 2011: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ministers-gifts- April 0.05 hospitality-travel-and-meetings May 0.12 June 0.15 Since May 2010, there have been three meetings between July 0.19 Ministers and Ultra Electronics; these are shown in the August 0.13 following table. 165W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 166W

CABINET OFFICE £ million Business: Kent September 0.18 October 0.16 November 0.20 Rehman Chishti: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet December 0.22 Office how many small and medium-sized businesses 2012: were operating in (a) Gillingham and Rainham constituency, (b) Medway and (c) Kent in each of the January 0.16 last five years. [147213] February 0.24 March 0.27 Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the April 0.16 responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have May 0.15 asked the authority to reply. June 0.17 July 0.17 Letter from Glen Watson, dated March 2013: August 0.20 As Director General for the Office for National Statistics, I September 0.16 have been asked to reply to your recent Parliamentary Question October 0.18 asking the Minister for the Cabinet Office how many small and medium-sized businesses were operating in (a) Gillingham and November 0.23 Rainham constituency (b) Medway and (c) Kent in each of the December 0.14 last five years. [147213] 2013: Annual statistics on the number of businesses (enterprises) are January 0.19 available from the ONS release - UK Business: Activity, Size and Location at: http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/bus-register/uk-business/ Wind Power: Planning Permission index.html Data on the number of enterprises broken down by districts, counties and unitary authorities within region and country by Dr Whitehead: To ask the Secretary of State for employment size band can be found in table B1.2 of the publication Defence what changes he has made to his policy on and data broken down by constituencies can be found in table objections to onshore wind turbine planning B6.2. applications in the last year. [147020] The following table contains the count of small and medium-sized businesses that were operating in the Gillingham and Rainham Constituency, Medway Unitary Authority and Kent County from Mr Francois: The Ministry of Defence continues to 2008 to 2012. Small businesses have been defined as those with an assess every planning application on a case by case basis employment between 0 and 49 and medium-sized businesses as and on its own merits. those with an employment between 50 and 249.

2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Small Medium Small Medium Small Medium Small Medium Small Medium

Gillingham and 2,155 25 2,120 30 1,935 20 1,905 30 2,000 30 Rainham Medway UA 6,380 75 6,285 80 6,135 80 6,020 100 6,305 100 Kent County 50,360 705 49,800 725 48,920 730 48,375 735 49,675 780 Notes: 1. Figures have been rounded to protect confidentiality. 2. These numbers do not include very small businesses, typically those below the threshold for VAT and PAYE.

Employment: Gillingham Employment statistics for local areas are calculated from the Annual Population Survey (APS). Estimates of people employed in the third sector are currently not available from APS. Individuals Rehman Chishti: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet employed in voluntary organisations, charities and trusts are Office what proportion of people were employed in (a) included in private sector estimates. the public sector, (b) the private sector and (c) third Individuals in the APS are classified to the public or private sector organisations in Gillingham and Rainham sector according to their responses to the survey. In the APS the distinction between public and private sector is based on respondents’ constituency in each of the last five years for which views about the organisation for which they work. The public figures are available. [147214] sector estimates provided do not correspond to official Public Sector Employment estimates. Those are derived directly from employers and are based on a National Accounts’ definition and Mr Hurd: The information requested falls within the are not available for areas smaller than regions. responsibility of the UK Statistics Authority. I have The tables show the number and percentage of people aged 16 asked the authority to reply. to 64 years, who were employed in the public or private sector Letter from Glen Watson dated March 2013: along with those who were unemployed or inactive, resident in Gillingham and Rainham constituency.These estimates are compiled As Director General for the Office for National Statistics from APS interviews held during the period October 2011 to (ONS), I have been asked to reply to your Parliamentary Question September 2012, the latest period available, and the 12 month asking, what proportion of people were employed in (a) public periods ending in December from 2008 to 2011. It should also be sector, (b) private sector and (c) third sector organisations in noted that the estimates also include people who were employed Gillingham and Rainham constituency in each of the last five but have not provided enough information to be accurately included years for which figures are available. (147214) in either the public or private sectors. 167W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 168W

As with any sample survey, estimates from the APS are subject FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE to a margin of uncertainty. A guide to the quality of the estimates is given in the table. Afghanistan National and local area estimates for many labour market statistics, including employment, unemployment and claimant Rehman Chishti: To ask the Secretary of State for count are available on the NOMIS website at: Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what steps he has http://www.nomisweb.co.uk taken to ensure the Afghan government remains Table 1: Percentage of people aged 16 to 64 years employed in the public and committed to equal rights for males and females. private sectors1, resident in Gillingham and Rainham constituency [147210] Percentage Employed Alistair Burt: Afghanistan’s Constitution makes clear Unemployed that men and women have equal rights. The Afghan 2 12 months ending: Public Private Unknown or inactive Government made a series of public commitments at December 2008 14.6 56.2 3— 28.7 the Tokyo Conference in July 2012, including to ensure December 2009 19.6 50.1 3— 29.5 the human rights of all Afghan citizens, including women, December 2010 13.8 54.8 3— 30.5 are promoted and protected as enshrined in their December 2011 16.2 52.9 3— 30.2 constitution. We, along with our international partners, September 2012 19.1 52.1 3— 28.1 will hold the Afghan Government to account for the 1 Individuals in the APS are classified to the public or private sector according commitments they have made and to implement the to their responses to the survey. human rights obligations that it has committed to, 2 People who were employed but have not provided enough information to be accurately included in either the public or private sectors. including implementation of the Law on the Elimination 3 Not available. of Violence Against Women and the Convention on the Note: Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Components may not add to 100% due to rounding and suppression of unavailable estimates. Women. Source: We regularly raise respect for women’s rights and the Annual Population Survey protection of women’s security with the Afghan Jimmy Savile Government. Women’s rights were a key priority during the visit to Afghanistan on 4-6 March this year by the Senior Minister of State, my noble and right hon. Mr Watson: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Friend the Baroness Warsi. She met Government and Office pursuant to the answer of the Prime Minister of civil society representatives to discuss women’s issues 23 October 2012, Official Report, column 756W, on and raised this issue with the Afghanistan Foreign Jimmy Savile, if the Government will set aside the Minister. practice of not commenting on individual honours cases with respect to Jimmy Savile. [147413] British Indian Ocean Territory

Mr Maude: I refer the hon. Member to the answer Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for given by the Prime Minister on 23 October 2012, Official Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the Report, column 756W. There are no plans to review the answer of 5 March 2013, Official Report, column practice of not commenting on individual honours 904W, on Chagos Islands, when the taking stock cases. process is expected to be complete; and when he anticipates he will be able to make a statement. Wayra and UnLtd and Bethnal Green Ventures [147512]

Chi Onwurah: To ask the Minister for the Cabinet Mark Simmonds: I refer the hon. Member to my Office pursuant to the answer of 4 March 2013, answer of 6 March 2013, Official Report, column 1018W. Official Report, column 821W, on the Social Incubator Fund, what the defined plans of (a) Wayra and UnLtd Andrew George: To ask the Secretary of State for and (b) Bethnal Green Ventures to reach beyond Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs pursuant to the answer of 5 March 2013, Official Report, column London are. [147592] 904W, on Chagos Islands, what he has identified as the Mr Hurd: Both ventures will actively work with local fundamental difficulties with resettlement; and if he partners to recruit social ventures from across England will discuss those matters with interested stakeholder and use online publicity and social media. groups and the Chagos Islands All-Party Parliamentary Group. [147528] Wayra and UnLtd have committed to working with delivery partners who have reach beyond London. They Mark Simmonds: The fundamental difficulties are will focus on building up a network of referral partners numerous. Any long-term settlement would be precarious across England; and deliver a regional road-show each and very costly. The outer islands, which have been year—targeting major cities throughout England. uninhabited for 40 years, are low-lying and lack all Bethnal Green Ventures have committed to linking basic facilities and infrastructure. The cost of infrastructure with local organisations and networks, and engage with and public services could become a heavy ongoing local communities. They will provide travel grants for contingent liability for the UK tax-payer. There are also selected teams to travel for interviews and aim to run defence considerations. two or three workshops a week across England, during As we have made clear in various PQs this year we their Call for Ventures. will be positive in our engagement with all interested Further incubators are due to be announced shortly. stakeholders. 169W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 170W

Burma It is difficult to obtain reliable information about the execution of minors. However, Amnesty International Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for states in its most recent report that in 2011 there may Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs which projects are have been seven executions in Iran, individuals who being funded or otherwise supported by his were minors at the time of the crimes for which they Department in relation to capacity building for the were convicted, as well as one in Saudi Arabia. Civil government of Burma. [146696] society groups have raised further possible cases in Saudi Arabia and Yemen in 2012. While we cannot verify the details of any of these, we have intervened Mr Swire: The Foreign and Commonwealth Office bilaterally with the authorities of Saudi Arabia in one does not currently fund directly any projects which recent case, and through the EU in a recent case in build the capacity of the Government of Burma. Our Yemen. embassy in Rangoon funds a number of projects through its bilateral programme budget. Two of these projects We regularly discuss abolition of the death penalty provided funding to non-governmental organisations to with a wide range of international counterparts, bilaterally, support Burma’s peace process, and included capacity- through the EU and through multilateral bodies such as building elements to Government, opposition, civil society the UN. and ethnic groups by sharing experiences of peace processes. India The majority of the projects funded by our bilateral programme budget aim to build the capacity of civil Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for society groups in areas such as human rights, peace Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent processes, interfaith dialogue, advocacy for disability representations he has made to the Government of rights, revenue transparency and responsible investment, India regarding the execution of Balwant Singh labour rights and conservation. Rajoana. [147326] The British Government, through the Department of Mr Swire: During my recent visit to India as part of International Development, has made the largest bilateral the Prime Minister’s delegation, I raised the British commitment of aid to Burma—allocating £187 million Government’s concerns about the death penalty with for development from 2011-15. This includes capacity- India’s Foreign Secretary, Ranjan Mathai, on 19 February. building support to Government and non-government The British Government will continue to make its position institutions through trusted expert organisations to support clear to the Indian Government on this issue. reform in Burma. This capacity-building also includes support to Burma’s Parliament; for example, the visit of I refer the hon. Member to the debate on the ’Death three Burmese MPs to the UK in December 2012 to Penalty (India)’ on 28 February 2013, Official Report, learn about parliamentary process and legislative drafting. columns 492-529. I also refer the hon. Member to my answer to the Mr Frank Field: To ask the Secretary of State for right hon. Member for Warley (Mr Spellar) of 25 February Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what reports he 2013, Official Report, column 324W. has received on the links between elected officials in the Burmese national and regional parliaments and the Maldives illegal drugs trade in that country. [146697] Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for Mr Swire: We are aware of media and non-governmental Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent organisation reports which have linked elected officials assessment he has made of the human rights situation in the Burmese national and regional parliaments and in the Maldives and the arrest of former President the illegal drugs trade. Nasheed. [147483] The illegal drugs trade in Burma is of serious concern. The British Government is actively looking for opportunities Alistair Burt: The Government has ongoing concerns to engage with Burmese law enforcement authorities to about human rights issues in Maldives, including on tackle the trade of illicit drugs in Burma. freedom of religion, rule of law, and women’s rights. We are also concerned about allegations of police brutality, physical and political intimidation of parliamentarians, Capital Punishment and arrests which appear to be politically motivated. Officials at our high commission in Colombo, which is Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for also accredited to Maldives, regularly discuss our concerns Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent with the Maldivian Government. During my visit to assessment has he made of the number of countries Maldives last month, I raised with the Maldivian that use the death penalty for offences committed by Government the importance of fully investigating all minors; and what discussions has he had with his allegations of police brutality, and ensuring that perpetrators international counterparts on the abolition of the are held accountable. death penalty. [147486] We will continue to encourage the Maldivian Government to comply with their obligations under Mr Lidington: The execution of minors is expressly international human rights and humanitarian law, and forbidden by Article 6 of the International Convention to take the necessary measures to protect individuals, on Civil and Political Rights, which is accepted by the Our high commissioner to Maldives will continue to vast majority of states. We expect all states to refrain raise these concerns in his regular dialogue with the from the execution of minors. Maldivian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. 171W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 172W

The British Government is watching events closely should become a party to such agreements is taken by following the recent arrest and detention of former the Council. Details of EU-only agreements are available President Nasheed in Maldives. Immediately after the on the website of the Council of the European Union at: arrest the UK high commissioner made urgent http://www.consilium.europa.eu/policies/agreements/search- representations to the Maldivian Government, calling the-agreements-database?lang=en on them to ensure due process was followed, and that proceedings were fair and transparent. The former President Yemen has now been released following his hearing, and we understand that his trial has been postponed for four Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for weeks. We urge all parties to remain calm and to act Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what responsibly. We have made it clear to the Maldivian representations he has made to the Yemeni authorities that no harm must be orientated towards Government on juvenile offenders sentenced to the the former President. death penalty in that country. [147484] Saudi Arabia Alistair Burt: I am deeply concerned by reports of the use of the death penalty against juveniles in Yemen, and Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for in particular was appalled to hear of the execution of Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make the alleged juvenile Hind al-Barti on 3 December. Our representations to the Saudi Arabia Government in ambassador to Yemenhas lobbied the YemeniGovernment support of the rule of law and the abolition of the at the highest levels on this issue, most recently in February. Together with the EU we continue to urge the death penalty in that country. [147485] Yemeni Government to honour its obligations under Alistair Burt: Ministers and officials frequently raise international treaties and immediately cease the execution the issue of the death penalty with the Saudi authorities, of juveniles in Yemen. bilaterally and through the European Union. I publicly The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth set out the Government’s strong opposition to use of Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Richmond the death penalty in a statement in January 2013 on the (Yorks) (Mr Hague), raised the UK’s concerns about execution in Saudi Arabia of Rizana Nafeek: the use of the death penalty in Yemen with Dr al-Qirbi, “The UK opposes all use of the death penalty as a matter of the Yemeni Foreign Minister, on 7 March. principle, whatever the crime committed. The beheading of Ms Nafeek is particularly concerning as reports suggest she may have been a child of 17 at the time the crime was committed. We also find the BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS practice of beheading to be particularly cruel and inhuman. We continue to raise our concerns about human rights with the Saudi Billing authorities, including its frequent use of the death penalty.” Sri Lanka Andrew Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what steps he is taking Kerry McCarthy: To ask the Secretary of State for to encourage clinical commissioning groups and local Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs what recent authorities to sign up to the prompt payment code. discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for [147301] the Home Department about human rights in Sri Michael Fallon: BIS is working with central Government Lanka and the safety of any Tamils returned to that Departments to encourage all public authorities that country. [147482] have not yet done so to sign up to the prompt payment code, to ensure that public authorities are aware of late Alistair Burt: 1 have discussed human rights in Sri payment legislation that sets out an obligation for the Lanka and the return of individuals with the Home public sector to pay suppliers within 30-days or pay Office on a number of occasions in recent weeks. The mandatory interest, and to share knowledge of best Foreign and Commonwealth Office shares assessments practice in procurement. of, and reporting on, human rights in Sri Lanka with the Home Office on a regular basis. This material, taken Business: Finance together with reporting from non-governmental organisations (NGOs), international organisations, and Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for other governments, is used to assess the human rights Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer situation in Sri Lanka, and is taken into consideration of 18 December 2012, Official Report, column 725W, by the UK Border Agency when making asylum decisions. on business finance, if he will provide a breakdown of the number of advisers available under the Business UK Membership of EU Finance Adviser Scheme in each region. [147317]

Mr Leigh: To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Michael Fallon: The Business Finance Advisor scheme and Commonwealth Affairs to which treaties and is welcomed by Government as an industry-led scheme, conventions the UK is a party solely by virtue of its jointly organised by the Institute of Chartered Accountants membership of the EU. [147011] in England and Wales (ICAEW), the Institute of Chartered Accountants in Scotland (ICAS) and the Association of Mr Lidington: The UK is bound, as a matter of EU Chartered Certified Accountants (ACCA). Government law, by treaties and conventions by virtue of its membership do not hold details of individual members. However, as of the EU where such agreements are concluded on of March 2013 there are over 1,900 offices participating behalf of the EU only. The decision on whether the EU in the scheme. 173W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 174W

Copyright between the European Parliament and member states on the 2014-20 EU budget. No decision has been made Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for on what criteria will be used within the UK. Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has had with representatives of small and medium-sized Exports businesses in the creative sector on potential increases in the regulatory burden following the implementation Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for of the modernising copyright proposals; and if he will Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to the make a statement. [146888] Bank of England’s Inflation Report February 2013, pages 24 and 25, if he will take steps to address the Jo Swinson: Ministers in this Department have regular disappointing export performance referred to in that meetings with representatives of small and medium-sized report; and if he will make a statement. [146892] enterprises, in which the subject of regulation comes up frequently. The Under-Secretary of State for Business, Michael Fallon: This Government recognises that Innovation and Skills, my noble Friend Viscount Younger trade is essential if we are to achieve sustainable, balanced of Leckie, and his predecessors, regularly meet groups growth in the UK economy. The Government’s strategy interested in the impact of implementing Modernising for trade and investment is set out in Trade and Investment Copyright. These groups will include people who represent for Growth White Paper, published in February 2011. or are themselves small businesses in the creative sector. The National Export Challenge, launched in November 2011, set an ambitious target to get an extra 100,000 Data Strategy Board companies exporting by 2020. Towards this, funding has increased to UK Trade & Investment (UKTI) to Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for enable it to double the number of small and medium-sized Business, Innovation and Skills who sits on the firms it supports, to 50,000 by 2015. Our industrial Department’s Data Strategy Board; and what their strategy sets out a long-term approach to supporting level of remuneration is. [147590] business, including building export capacity in key sectors of the economy. Matthew Hancock: The current members of the Data Strategy Board (DSB) are: Economic research has consistently shown that productivity is the primary driver of export performance. Chair: Stephan Shakespeare: CEO and Co-founder of YouGov BIS has a comprehensive policy agenda to support UK Nick Baldwin: Chair, Public Weather Service Customer Group business in driving up UK productivity. Key strands Professor Sir John Beddington: Government Chief Scientific include support for innovation through the Technology Adviser Strategy Board and support through UKTI to help Michael Coughlin: Executive Director, Local Government individual UK businesses and sectors overcome barriers Association to exporting and entering new markets. John Dodds: Director of Innovation, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills The Government is also encouraging ambitious trade negotiations. Deep and comprehensive trade agreements Sir Ian Magee: Chair, Geographic Information Customer Group will significantly increase the opportunities for UK Heather Savory: Chair, Government’s Open Data User Group exporters. The EU Commission has estimated that extra-EU Steve Thomas: MD Strategic Development, Experian plc exports could grow by around 6% as a result of the Bill Roberts: CEO, Swirrl IT Ltd EU’s ongoing and potential free trade agreements. Chris Yiu: Head of Digital Government Unit, Policy Exchange Professor Mark McGurk: Head of Oral and Maxillofacial Fossil Fuels: Reserves Surgery, GKT Dental Institute The only member to receive any remuneration for the Mr Tom Harris: To ask the Secretary of State for DSB role is the Chair, who receives an honorarium of Business, Innovation and Skills whether his £26,304 per annum. Department has the power to enforce an obligation for All DSB members are entitled to reclaim any reasonable companies to disclose data on fossil fuel reserves under expenses, including travel, subsistence and other expenses, the provisions of the Companies Act 2006. [147170] properly and necessarily incurred in respect of their appointment. Jo Swinson: The Companies Act 2006 provides powers for the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and EU Grants and Loans Skills, my right hon. Friend the Member for Twickenham (Vince Cable), to determine what information companies John Healey: To ask the Secretary of State for must disclose in their directors’ report. There is no Business, Innovation and Skills with reference to the obligation for companies to disclose data on fossil fuel European Council negotiations on the EU’s Multi- reserves. Annual Financial Framework, how much the UK will receive in economic, social and territorial cohesion Greenhouse Gas Emissions: Business funding for Transition Regions; and how much such funding will be allocated to each of the UK’s 11 Mr Tom Harris: To ask the Secretary of State for Transition Regions. [147355] Business, Innovation and Skills whether his Department’s proposed regulations on greenhouse gas Michael Fallon: The Government will be in a position reporting will contain powers to require disclosure to set out how much total funding is available for under the provisions of the Companies Act 2006. transition regions only after there is a final agreement [147169] 175W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 176W

Jo Swinson: The Government will shortly be introducing Regional Growth Fund: Merseyside, which projects regulations that amend the Companies Act 2006 to and programmes have received funding from the make changes to the narrative reporting framework, Regional Growth Fund; and how much each such including a requirement that quoted companies disclose project and programme has received. [147503] their greenhouse gas emissions. Michael Fallon: The following Round 1 and Round 2 Nuclear Power projects and programmes in Merseyside have received finalised awards: Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what discussions he has £ had with the Green Construction Board on the need for research into the extent to which investment in new Crown Speciality Packaging UK Ltd 1,030,000 nuclear power plants, along with associated ancillary Dairy Crest Ltd 5,265,000 uranium nuclear fuel cycle production plants, abroad at Eldonians (Liverpool City Council) 25,335,000 the front-end of the fuel production cycle and within Getrag Ford Transmissions 3,360,000 the UK in operation and at the back-end, meet the Harpscreen and QuarryTech 1,097,750 Government’s low-carbon and sustainability agendas. Liverpool City Council (Housing) 6,468,715 [147577] Liverpool Council and Liverpool Echo 1,000,000 North West Aerospace Alliance 4,422,257 Michael Fallon: It is not part of the remit of the Pilkington Coatings 5,000,000 Green Construction Board to consider matters relating Redx Pharma Ltd 5,920,000 to investment in new nuclear plants, and no such discussions Sefton Council (Mersey Docks) 35,000,000 have taken place. Unilever UK 2,830,000

Open Data Institute The Department will provide details of Round 3 and 4 projects when the awards are finalised. Chi Onwurah: To ask the Secretary of State for In aggregate, these projects have drawn down a total Business, Innovation and Skills what funding the of £43,455,162. The Department is not able to provide Technology Strategy Board has provided to the Open details of the draw down for individual projects as the Data Institute. [147589] disclosure of this information may prejudice the commercial interests of some beneficiaries. Matthew Hancock: Since May 2012, the Technology Strategy Board has provided £1.2 million to the Open Data Institute. The Technology Strategy Board is due Seeds: Patents to provide £10 million to the Open Data Institute over a five-year period from 2012/13. Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills what meetings, Regional Growth Fund discussions and correspondence his Department has had with the World Trade Organisation regarding Mr Umunna: To ask the Secretary of State for patented seeds since June 2010. [147266] Business, Innovation and Skills what processes and safeguards he will put in place for benchmarking Jo Swinson: The only UK engagement in this area awards under the Exceptional Regional Growth Fund with the WTO is via our participation in the World against similar bids from previous rounds of the Trade Organisation’s Council on Trade-Related Intellectual Regional Growth Fund (RGF); and whether this Property Rights (TRIPS), at which the topic of intellectual decision will be made by Ministers or the RGF property and biodiversity features regularly on the agenda. Independent Advisory Panel. [147318] This covers plant varieties as part of the ongoing review of Article 27.3(b) of the TRIPS Agreement, which Michael Fallon: As with an open round of the Regional provides for the protection of plant varieties either by Growth Fund (RGF), applications for exceptional support patents or by a “sui generic” system. Further details are will be appraised in line with the bidding guidance set available online at: out in the HMT Green Book: http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/trips_e/ http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/data_greenbook_index.htm art27_3b_background_e.htm This appraisal will look at the value for money case for RGF support and the fit with RGF objectives. The appraisal will allow applications for exceptional support to be benchmarked against previous bids to the RGF. HEALTH The economic appraisal and the benchmarking information will be available to both my noble Friends Bowel Cancer Lord Heseltine and Lord Shipley, acting on behalf of the Independent Advisory Panel, and to Ministers to inform the decisions they make. Mr Baron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many applications were (a) received, (b) Regional Growth Fund: Merseyside approved and (c) rejected through the Cancer Drugs Fund for bowel cancer treatments in (i) England and John Pugh: To ask the Secretary of State for (ii) each strategic health authority for (A) October 2010 Business, Innovation and Skills pursuant to the answer to March 2011, (B) April 2011 to March 2012 and (C) of 28 February 2013, Official Report, column 641W, on April 2012 to December 2012. [147014] 177W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 178W

Norman Lamb: A number of the drugs funded through Admissions to residential care the cancer drugs funding arrangements for 2010-11, Area Year Age 18 to 64 Age 65 and over 2011-12 and 2012-13 are used in the treatment of bowel 2011-12 10 190 cancer. However, the Department does not collect information on the specific indications for which drugs have been funded and some of these drugs may be used Yorkshire and Humber 2007-08 360 4,550 in the treatment of a number of cancers. Neither is region information collected on the number of applications or 2008-09 375 4,725 applications that are turned down. 2009-10 315 4,805 2010-11 380 4,505 Cancer 2011-12 355 4,570

Tessa Munt: To ask the Secretary of State for Health Admissions to nursing care when the new national clinical director for cancer will Area Year Age 18 to 64 Age 65 and over be appointed. [147194] East Riding of 2007-08 5 70 Yorkshire local Anna Soubry: It is anticipated that the NHS authority Commissioning Board will announce the appointment 2008-09 5 110 of a new National Clinical Director for Cancer before the end of March 2013. 2009-10 0 50 2010-11 5 55 Care Homes: Yorkshire and the Humber 2011-12 0 35

Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for North Lincolnshire 2007-08 5 40 Health (1) how many permanent admissions to local authority residential and nursing care homes there were of 2008-09 5 60 people over 65 years in (a) Brigg and Poole 2009-10 5 25 constituency and (b) Yorkshire and the Humber in 2010-11 0 20 each of the last five years; [147488] 2011-12 5 15 (2) how many permanent admissions to residential and nursing care homes there were of people between 18 and 65 years in (a) Brigg and Poole constituency Yorkshire and Humber 2007-08 145 2,035 region and (b) Yorkshire and the Humber in each of the last 2008-09 105 1,835 five years. [147489] 2009-10 105 1,430 Norman Lamb: Data on the number of adults—aged 2010-11 105 1,445 18 to 64—and older people—aged 65 or over—permanently 2011-12 115 1,355 admitted to local authority-arranged residential and Notes: nursing care are collected and published by the NHS 1. Figures are rounded to the nearest five. Health and Social Care Information Centre. 2. Figures include admissions to local authority operated and independent sector homes. Data for Brigg and Goole constituency are not available 3. Yorkshire and Humber region includes other local authorities in addition to separately. The Information Centre has provided data East Riding of Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire. for the North Lincolnshire and East Riding of Yorkshire local authorities, which include Brigg and Goole Deep Vein Thrombosis constituency, and the Yorkshire and Humber region. This information is shown in the tables. Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Information on admissions to privately funded and Health how much NICE-approved rivaroxaban for the arranged residential and nursing care is not collected treatment of deep vein thrombosis and prevention of centrally. recurrent deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary Admissions to residential care embolism has been prescribed in each primary care Area Year Age 18 to 64 Age 65 and over trust area in each of the last three years. [147402] East Riding of 2007-08 25 475 Yorkshire local Norman Lamb: Information has been placed in the authority Library. 2008-09 30 265 A table is provided for each of the last available three 2009-10 45 540 financial years 2009-10 through to 2011-12, together 2010-11 25 490 with April to September 2012, giving the total number 2011-12 25 505 of prescription items dispensed in the community, in England, by primary care trust, for rivaroxaban. The North Lincolnshire 2007-08 15 225 net ingredient cost of these dispensed prescription items local authority is provided in a further table. 2008-09 10 235 . Prescription data does not include the indication for 2009-10 10 235 which the medicine has been given. It is therefore not 2010-11 15 200 possible to separate out any prescribing for rivaroxaban for the treatment of deep vein thrombosis and prevention 179W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 180W of recurrent deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary embolism Genito-urinary Medicine from any other use such as prevention of stroke and systemic embolism. Pamela Nash: To ask the Secretary of State for In terms of cost, the main usage of rivaroxaban is in Health when his Department intends to publish its secondary care. In the calendar year 2011 the estimated sexual health policy document. [147264] cost in hospitals in England was £3.4 million. This figure is taken from the Hospital Prescribing 2011 report Dan Jarvis: To ask the Secretary of State for Health published by the Health and Social Care Information when his Department intends to publish its Sexual Centre. Health Policy document. [147529]

Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Anna Soubry: The sexual health policy document will Health what policy instruments he has at his disposal be published as soon as possible. to ensure compliance of healthcare providers with the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence Health Services: Watford guidance on prescribing of rivaroxaban for the treatment of deep vein thrombosis and the prevention Richard Harrington: To ask the Secretary of State for of recurrent deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary Health what funding his Department allocated to the embolism; and whether he has any plans to use them. Watford Health Campus between May 1997 and May [147593] 2010. [147174]

Norman Lamb: The National Institute for Health Dr Poulter: The Department allocated £37 million to and Clinical Excellence’s (NICE) technology appraisal the West Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust for the guidance, published in July 2012, recommends rivaroxaban development of an acute admissions unit on the Watford as an option for treating deep vein thrombosis and Health Campus between 2007-08 and 2008-09. The preventing recurrent deep vein thrombosis and pulmonary Department allocated a further £7 million to the West embolism after a diagnosis of acute deep vein thrombosis Hertfordshire Hospitals NHS Trust in 2011-12 for the in adults. development of an access road to the Watford Health Primary care trusts are legally obliged to fund drugs Campus. and treatments recommended in NICE technology appraisal guidance, within three months of guidance being published, Horse Meat unless the requirement is waived in a specific case. The NHS chief executive’s report, “Innovation Health Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for and Wealth”, committed the NHS to establishing a Health which company supplied Sodexo with the meat compliance regime to promote rapid and consistent which tested positive for horse DNA. [147508] implementation of NICE technology appraisal guidance. As “Creating Change: Innovation Health and Wealth Anna Soubry: The Food Standards Agency advises one year on” sets out, this compliance regime is already that due to ongoing investigations, which may lead to reducing variation. legal proceedings, the FSA is unable to release further details at this time about the company that supplied Dementia: Yorkshire and the Humber Sodexo with the meat that tested positive for horse DNA. Andrew Percy: To ask the Secretary of State for Medicine: Research Health what steps he is taking to raise awareness of the early signs of dementia in (a) Brigg and Goole constituency and (b) Yorkshire and the Humber. Mr Iain Wright: To ask the Secretary of State for [147403] Health with reference to the Strategy for UK Life Sciences, for what reason his Department has not Norman Lamb: The 2012 dementia campaign, which brought forward consultation proposals for a new early ran from September 2012 to January 2013, consisted of access scheme to increase the speed and efficiency of national television, radio, press and digital advertising routes to market for innovative therapies; and when he supported by public relations. Its objective was to raise expects to bring forward such a consultation. [146992] awareness of the signs of dementia and encourage people to visit their doctor if they are concerned about Norman Lamb: In line with the commitments made their memory. in the Strategy for UK Life Sciences, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency launched, in July 2012, a public consultation on the feasibility and General Practitioners: Lancashire desirability of introducing an “early access” scheme in the United Kingdom to make certain new and promising Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for medicines available to patients before they are formally Health how many patients were removed from each GP licensed. practice list in Lancashire in 2012. [147265] The consultation closed in October 2012 and the responses are being assessed. Discussions are continuing Dr Poulter: The information requested is not held by across Government following the consultation and the the Department. The hon. Member may wish to approach Government expects to make an announcement as soon the local national health service directly. as these discussions have concluded. 181W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 182W

Mental Illness: Employment interpretation, my noble Friend arranged for the publication of a detailed explanatory note in addition to the explanatory Sarah Newton: To ask the Secretary of State for memorandum. Health what estimate he has made of the number of NHS: Finance people with mental or psychological health problems who have moved off out of work benefits and into Stephen Barclay: To ask the Secretary of State for employment in each of the last 10 years. [146693] Health under what circumstances payments made from the NHS budget as a result of judicial mediation Mr Hoban: I have been asked to reply on behalf of require (a) his approval and (b) the approval of the the Department for Work and Pensions. Chancellor of the Exchequer. [147601] The information requested is not readily available Dr Poulter: Approval has not hitherto been required and could be provided only at disproportionate cost. by the Chancellor of the Exchequer or the Secretary of State for Health for special severance payments made as NHS: Competition a result of judicial mediation. However, as of 11 March 2013 approval will be required by both the Department Derek Twigg: To ask the Secretary of State for of Health and HM Treasury for special severance payments Health when he plans to lay the amended regulations in made as a result of judicial mediation. respect of procurement, patient choice and NHS: Staff competition under section 75 of the Health and Social Care Act 2012. [147538] Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of State for Health how many (a) registered nurses and Anna Soubry: The National Health Service (Procurement, (b) healthcare assistants were employed in the NHS in Patient Choice and Competition) (No 2) Regulations each of the last five years for which figures are 2013 were laid in Parliament on 11 March. available. [147588]

Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Dr Poulter: The numbers of qualified nursing, midwifery Health pursuant to the answer to the hon. Member for and health visiting staff and healthcare assistants employed Walsall South of 5 March 2013, Official Report, in the national health service from 2007 to 2011 are column 844, which Minister considered the original shown in the following table: section 75 regulations and subsequently signed them Qualified nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff off for submission to Parliament. [147596] are registered with the Nursing and Midwifery Council. Healthcare assistants care for patients, working under Anna Soubry: The National Health Service (Procurement, the supervision of nurses; midwives and other health Patient Choice and Competition) Regulations 2013 were professionals. There are other support staff who work approved by my noble Friend the Parliamentary Under- with doctors and nursing staff, including nursing auxiliaries Secretary of State (Earl Howe). Alongside this to assist and support workers.

NHS hospital and community staff: Qualified nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff by area of work—England as at 30 September each year Full-time equivalent 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Total qualified nursing staff 308,516 313,879 320,469 322,306 319,919 Qualified nursing, midwifery and health visiting staff 293,962 299,917 306,887 309,139 306,346 General practice nurses1 14,554 13,962 13,582 13,167 13,573 1 Practice staff counts for 2011 represents an improvement in data collection processes and comparisons with previous years should be treated with caution. Note: Totals may not equal the sum of component parts due to rounding and the inclusion of unclassifiable staff. In 2011 the bank staff return was ceased. All data (for all years) in these tables excludes bank staff. Source: 2012 Health and Social Care Information Centre.

Healthcare assistants—England at 30 September each year Full-time equivalent 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

All healthcare assistants 36,260 39,851 44,212 45,015 46,574 Support to ambulance service 901 781 866 887 891 Support to doctors and nursing staff 34,532 38,221 42,331 43,212 44,787 Of which: Acute elderly and general 23,403 26,410 28,836 29,751 31,055 Paediatric nursing 1,043 1,181 1,295 1,512 1,508 Maternity services 2,062 2,312 2,458 2,746 2,916 Other psychiatry 3,105 2,935 3,072 2,594 3,006 Other learning disabilities 2,830 2,687 2,641 2,288 2,027 Community services 1,930 2,565 3,912 4,210 4,185 Central functions 159 131 117 111 91 Support to allied health professionals 461 513 582 561 506 183W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 184W

Healthcare assistants—England at 30 September each year Full-time equivalent 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011

Of which: Chiropody 29 25 20 17 15 Occupational therapy 135 158 187 130 89 Physiotherapy 131 139 156 143 123 Radiography (diagnostic) 148 166 184 230 224 Speech and language therapy 18 25 35 41 56 Support to Healthcare Scientists 45 22 21 16 20 Support to other Scientific, Technical and 120 143 175 134 171 Therapeutic staff Hotel, property and estates 200 171 236 205 199 Note: Sum of figures may not equal totals due to rounding. Source: The Health and Social Care Information Centre.

Olaseni Lewis Act 1983. The CQC will determine any further action by CQC, having reviewed the case. Steve Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Health whether his Department or the agencies for which he is Phenylbutazone responsible have held or intend to hold an investigation Mary Creagh: To ask the Secretary of State for into the death of Olaseni Lewis in September 2010; and Health pursuant to the answer of 11 February 2013, if he will make a statement. [147341] Official Report, columns 523-4W, on horses: Norman Lamb: In September 2012, the Metropolitan slaughterhouses, on what date (a) the positive Police commissioned an independent review into how it phenylbutazone samples were collected, (b) those responds to people with mental health conditions. Under samples were passed to the Veterinary Medicines the chairmanship of Lord Adebowale, the review has Directorate, (c) the Veterinary Medicines Directorate examined every case during the last five years where confirmed the positive test result, (d) the positive test someone with a mental health condition has either died results were reported to the Food Standards Agency or been seriously injured after police contact. (FSA), (e) the FSA issued a recall on the positive meat and (f) the EC Rapid Alert system for Feed and Food In addition, under Regulation 17 of the Health and team were alerted of the positive test results. [147546] Social Care Act 2008 (Regulated Activities) the hospital must notify the Care Quality Commission (CQC) of the Anna Soubry: Details are provided in the following death of any patient detained under the Mental Health table:

Date samples passed to Veterinary Medicines Directorate (tested by either Date Fera/ Laboratory LGC Date when Government confirmed positive EC Rapid Alert Chemist (LGC) positive test sample system for Feed Date positive or Food and result to reported to the and Food team Establishment phenylbutazone Environment Veterinary Food FSA issued a were alerted of where sample samples were Research Agency Medicines Standards recall on the the positive test was collected Estab. No. Year collected (Fera) Directorate Agency positive meat results

Stillmans 8231 2010 24 February 2 March 2010 16 April 2010 20 April 2010 21 April 2010 RASFF (Somerset) Ltd 2010 submitted to theECon 21 April 2010- Carcase distributed to France. RASFF 2010.0496 issued by the EC on 22 April 2010 Stillmans 8231- 2010 24 February 2 March 2010 16 April 2010 20 April 2010 21 April 2010 RASFF (Somerset) Ltd 2010 submitted to theECon 21 April 2010—Carcase distributed to France. RASFF 2010.0496 issued by the EC on 22 April 2010 185W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 186W

Date samples passed to Veterinary Medicines Directorate (tested by either Date Fera/ Laboratory LGC Date when Government confirmed positive EC Rapid Alert Chemist (LGC) positive test sample system for Feed Date positive or Food and result to reported to the and Food team Establishment phenylbutazone Environment Veterinary Food FSA issued a were alerted of where sample samples were Research Agency Medicines Standards recall on the the positive test was collected Estab. No. Year collected (Fera) Directorate Agency positive meat results

Stillmans 8231 2010 21 April 2010 27 April 2010 24 June 2010 28 June 2010 2 July 2010 RASFF (Somerset) Ltd submitted to theECon 2 July 2010— Carcase distributed to France. RASFF 2010.0889 issued by the EC on 2 July 2010

Stillmans 8231 2010 14 April 2010 20 April 2010 3 June 2010 7 June 2010 14 June 2010 RASFF (Somerset) Ltd submitted to theEC14June 2010—RASFF 2010.0779 issued by the EC on 15 June 2010

Stillmans 8231 2010 19 May 2010 25 May 2010 9 September 22 September 7 October 2010 RASFF (Somerset) Ltd 2010 2010 submitted to theECon 7 October 2010—Carcase distributed to France. RASFF 2010.1366 issued by the EC on 8 October 2010

Stillmans 8231 2011 8 June 2011 14 June 2011 29 June 2011 29 June . 2011 FSA has no (Somerset) Ltd record of notification, being received. RASFF not issued.

High Peak 4185 2012 21 May 2012 25 May 2012 27 June 2012 27 June 2012 4 February RASFF Meat Exports 2013 submitted by Ltd theUKon 4 February 2013, following a reconciliation exercise with VMD. Distribution to Netherlands. RASFF 2013.0142 issued by the EC on 5 February 2013

Stillmans 8231 2012 25 April 2012 1 May 2012 30 May 2012 6 June 2012 13 June 2012 Distribution to (Somerset) Ltd France. RASFF submitted to theECon 13 June 2012. RASFF 2012.0810 issued by the EC on 14 June 2012 187W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 188W

Date samples passed to Veterinary Medicines Directorate (tested by either Date Fera/ Laboratory LGC Date when Government confirmed positive EC Rapid Alert Chemist (LGC) positive test sample system for Feed Date positive or Food and result to reported to the and Food team Establishment phenylbutazone Environment Veterinary Food FSA issued a were alerted of where sample samples were Research Agency Medicines Standards recall on the the positive test was collected Estab. No. Year collected (Fera) Directorate Agency positive meat results

Stillmans 8231 2012 18 January 2012 24 January 2012 15 February 15 February 15 March 2012 Distribution to (Somerset) Ltd 2012 2012 France. RASFF submitted to theECon 15 March 2012. RASFF 2012.0394 issued by the EC on 15 March 2012.

Stillmans 8231 2012 21 March 2012 27 March 2012 26 April 12 11 May 2012 15 May 2012 Distribution to (Somerset) Ltd France. RASFF submitted to theECon 15 May 2012. RASFF 2012.0662 issued by the EC on 15 May 2012.

Stillmans 8231 2012 10 October 2012 16 October 2012 13 November 13 November 4 February RASFF (Somerset) Ltd 2012 2012 2013 submitted by theUKon 4 February 2013, following a reconciliation exercise with VMD. Distribution to France. RASFF 2013.0137 issued by the EC on 5 February 2013.

Stillmans 8231 2012 1 August 2012 7 August 2012 16 August 16 August 29 August 2012 Distribution to (Somerset) Ltd 2012 2012 France. RASFF submitted to theECon 29 August 2012. RASFF 2012.1215 issued by the EC on 29 August 2012.

High Peak 4185 2012 3 August 2012 8 August 2012 22 August 22 August 6 September Distribution to Meat Exports 2012 2012 2012 two farms in Ltd UK for their own consumption. No RASFF required.

Stillmans 8231 2012 8 August 2012 15 August 2012 22 August 22 August 29 August 2012 Distribution to (Somerset) Ltd 2012 2012 France. RASFF submitted to theECon 29 August 2012. RASFF 2012.1251 issued by the EC on 29 August 2012. 189W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 190W

Date samples passed to Veterinary Medicines Directorate (tested by either Date Fera/ Laboratory LGC Date when Government confirmed positive EC Rapid Alert Chemist (LGC) positive test sample system for Feed Date positive or Food and result to reported to the and Food team Establishment phenylbutazone Environment Veterinary Food FSA issued a were alerted of where sample samples were Research Agency Medicines Standards recall on the the positive test was collected Estab. No. Year collected (Fera) Directorate Agency positive meat results

High Peak 4185 2012 13 September 19 September 27 September 27 September No recall Carcase never Meat Exports 2012 2012 2012 2012 required left the Ltd abattoir. It was disposed of as Cat-1 Animal By Product. No RASFF required.

Respiratory System: Diseases Dr Poulter: It will be for the NHS Commissioning Board to determine its priorities for commissioning Mr Barron: To ask the Secretary of State for Health guidance. We understand that clinical commissioners for what reasons respiratory disease was omitted from would welcome a framework for commissioning services the NHS Commissioning Board’s list of strategic that deliver a systematic, high quality approach to clinical networks. [147247] venous thromboembolism prevention across the patient pathway in order to drive up standards and improve Anna Soubry: In July 2012 the National Health Service health outcomes; and that the work in hand on this Commissioning Board (NHS CB) published a report product is expected to continue. entitled “The Way Forward: Strategic Clinical Networks”. This report explained how the NHS CB had come to Warm Homes Healthy People Fund the decision on the four priority areas it would support Jason McCartney: To ask the Secretary of State for through strategic clinical networks, and how these networks Health what steps his Department has taken to would be supported by the NHS CB. publicise the Warm Homes Healthy People fund to The NHS CB has made clear that as priorities change, local authorities. [147019] or should the work of one of the initial strategic clinical networks conclude, the board will identify new conditions Anna Soubry: On 11 September 2012, Dr Felicity or patient groups that would benefit from a strategic Harvey, Director General of Public Health, Department clinical network approach. of Health, wrote to all ‘upper tier’ local authorities advising them of Ministers’ decision to establish the Thromboembolism Warm Homes Healthy People Fund (WHHP) again for this winter 2012-13. Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Local Authority Circular LAC (DH) (2012)2 published Health (1) what proportion of people with venous on 13 September 2012 invited local authorities to make thromboembolic diseases continuing anticoagulation applications for funding from the fund by 5 October therapy beyond an initial dose had their dose adjusted 2012. This was sent to all local authority and NHS chief for weight and renal function in the latest period for executives in the Department’s publication “the Week” which figures are available; [147021] Issue 264, which is the main method for disseminating (2) what proportion of people with suspected information to the NHS and local authorities. pulmonary embolism are offered anticoagulation We issued a written ministerial statement on therapy if diagnostic investigations take longer than 22 November 2012, Official Report, columns 38-39WS, (a) one and (b) four hours to complete from notifying Parliament of the outcomes of the Warm presentation. [147022] Homes Healthy People fund bidding process. Subsequently, Dr Poulter: Information is not available on the extent we sent a letter to all local authorities who bid for funds, of adherence to these elements of Clinical Guideline notifying them of the outcome of their individual bid. CG144, published by the National Institute for Health We have published a summary of all the successful and Clinical Excellence. proposals from the WHHP fund on the Local Government Association Knowledge Hub website. Andrew Gwynne: To ask the Secretary of State for Health pursuant to the answer of 11 December 2012, Official Report, column 285W, if he will encourage the JUSTICE NHS Commissioning Board to promote the venous Civil Disorder: Reparation by Offenders thromboembolism prevention commissioning toolkit currently in development by the National Venous Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice Thromboembolism Prevention Programme to inform whether he has undertaken a review of the use of clinical commissioning groups on how to ensure best restorative justice used in the sentencing of cases practice in venous thromboembolism prevention. related to the public disturbances of August 2011. [147171] [146610] 191W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 192W

Jeremy Wright: There has been no review of the use and Wales, since May 2010, together with their respective of restorative justice in the sentencing of cases related roles. In addition, details of those full-time judges who to the public disturbances of August 2011. This is have been appointed to hear an inquest since May 2010 because data on the number of cases relating to the are also detailed. disturbances reported to my Department by courts did Public bodies not include any information on whether these cases Name of public body Judicial office holder involved any element of restorative justice. Advisory Committee for HHJ Timothy King—Chair However, we have published a number of statistical Conscientious Objectors bulletins covering cases relating to the disturbances. HHJ Timothy Lawrence—Deputy Chair These publications provide information on defendants brought before the courts, including initial outcomes, sentencing information, analysis of criminal histories, Advisory Council of the Lord Dyson—Chairman (previously Lord National Records and Neuberger) prison population and socio-economic factors relating Archives to these defendants. The latest publication is available at

www.justice.gov.uk/statistics/criminal-justice/public-disorder- Boundary Commission for Mr Justice Sales—Deputy Chair august-11/public-disorder-august-11-editions England Civil Proceedings: Legal Costs Boundary Commission for Mr Justice Wyn-Williams—Deputy Chair Wales (previously Mr Justice Lloyd Jones) Paul Flynn: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice what steps he is taking to ensure that the Central Arbitration Mr Justice Burton implementation in April 2013 of reforms to civil Committee litigation funding and costs does not have serious [146743] negative consequences for access to justice. Civil Justice Council Lord Dyson—Chairman (previously Lord Neuberger) Mrs Grant: The Government is making fundamental Lord Justice Richards—Vice-Chairman changes to civil litigation funding and costs, including Members: Lord Justice Stanley Burnton ‘no win no fee’ conditional fee agreements. The reforms Mr Justice Foskett come into effect on 1 April 2013. DJ William Jackson The reforms form a balanced package, and include a number of measures which will protect claimants’ damages. Mr Justice MacDuff These include a 10% increase in general damages for HHJ Graham Jones non-pecuniary loss such as pain, suffering and loss of DJ Robert Jordan amenity and, in personal injury cases, the introduction HHJ David Grant of qualified one way costs shifting—which will provide protection limiting the costs that a losing claimant may Civil Procedure Rule Lord Dyson—Chairman (previously Lord have to pay the other side—and a cap on the amount Committee Neuberger) that the lawyer can charge as a success fee. Lord Justice Richards—Vice-Chairman It is important for access to justice that costs are (previously Lord Justice Moore-Bick) more proportionate. Members: Mr Justice Henderson Mr Justice Sales Coroners DJ Suzanne Burn DJ Chris Lethem Steve Reed: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice when he expects the inquest to start into the death of Mr Justice Coulson Olaseni Lewis; what the reasons are for the delay in HHJ Stephen Stewart starting the inquest; and if he will make a statement. DJ Robert Hill [147340] Master Fontaine

Mrs Grant: The Ministry of Justice has responsibility for coroner law and policy only.It does not have operational Competition Appeals Tribunal Mr Justice Barling responsibility for coroner services. The South London Coroner is solely responsible for the conduct of his Copyright Tribunal His Honour Judge Birss QC—Chair investigations and inquests including that into the death of Olaseni Lewis. Criminal Justice Council Lord Justice Gross—Chair Members: HHJ Adele Williams Judiciary DJ Sonia Sims

Kelvin Hopkins: To ask the Secretary of State for Criminal Procedure Rule Lord Chief Justice of England and Justice which full-time members of the judiciary have Committee Wales—Chairman acted as chairperson or member of any public body or Lady Justice Rafferty—Deputy Chair inquiry since May 2010; and what role they held in each such case. [146905] Members: Lord Justice Thomas HHJ Martin Picton Mrs Grant: The following table sets out details of DJ Stephen Earl those full-time members of the judiciary who have Mr Justice Openshaw served on either a public body or inquiry held in England 193W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 194W

Public bodies Public bodies Name of public body Judicial office holder Name of public body Judicial office holder

HHJ Guggenheim QC HHJ John Beashel DL Former Members: Lord Justice Hooper (until 31 August HHJ Martin Beddoe 2012) HHJ Neil Bidder QC HHJ Charles Wide QC (until 31 August 2012) HHJ Peter Birts QC HHJ Roderick Denyer QC (until 31 HHJ Robert Brown August 2011) HHJ David Bryant DJ Stephen Dawson (until 31 August 2011) HHJ Jeffrey Burke QC HHJ Collin Burn Family Justice Council Lord Justice Munby, President of the HHJ Michael Burr Family Division—Chair (previously Lord Justice Wall) HHJ Jeremy Carey Lord Justice Thorpe—Deputy Chair HHJ Nick Coleman Members: Mrs Justice Parker HHJ Paul Collins CBE DJ Rachel Karp HHJ Graham Cottle DJ (Magistrates’ Court) Nicholas Crichton HHJ Gareth Cowling HHJ Simon Davis Family Procedure Rule Lord Justice Munby, President of the HHJ Paul Dodgson Committee Family Division—Chair (previously Lord Justice Wall) HHJ Peter Fingret Members: Lady Justice Black HHJ Daniel Flahive Mrs Justice Theis HHJ Paul Focke QC HHJ Angela Finnerty HHJ Bill Gaskell Senior DJ Waller CBE HHJ Goldsack QC, DL DJ Chris Darbyshire HHJ Rodney Grant DJ Paul Carr HHJ Griffiths-Jones QC HHJ Guggenheim QC Interception of Sir Anthony May (previously Sir Paul Communications Kennedy) HHJ Carol Hagen Commissioner HHJ Mark Horton HHJ Macdonald QC Intelligence Services Sir Mark Waller Commissioner HHJ Kerry Macgill HHJ G Kamil CBE Insolvency Rules Committee Mr Justice Richards—Chairman HHJ Louise Kamill HHJ Roger Keen QC Investigatory Powers Tribunal Lord Justice Mummery HHJ C Linsay QC Mr Justice Burton HHJ Shaun Lyons HHJ Bruce McIntyre Judicial Appointments Lady Justice Black—Vice-Chairman/ HHJ Metcalf Commission Commissioner Commissioners: Mr Justice Bean DJ (MC) Clive Million HHJ Taylor HHJ Milmo QC Mr Justice Wilkie HHJ Tony Mitchell DJ Malcolm Birchall HHJ Mole QC Former Commissioners: Lady Justice Hallett (until 1 February HHJ Molyneux 2011) HHJ Onions Lord Justice Toulson (until 31 March 2012) HHJ Richard O’Rourke HHJ Michael O’Sullivan Land Registration Rule Mr Justice Morgan—Member HHJ Owen Tudor Committee HHJ Pardoe QC HHJ Powles QC Law Commission Lord Justice Lloyd Jones—Chair (previously Lord Justice Munby) HHJ Philip Richards HHJ Gordon Risius CB Parole Board Sir David Calvert-Smith—Chairman HHJ Stephen Robbins Members (including retired HHJ Caroline Alton full-time judges): HHJ J Roberts QC HHJ Christopher Ball QC HHJ Roberts Mervyn HHJ Bassingthwaighte HHJPERobertshaw HHJ Anthony Bate HHJ John Rubery 195W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 196W

Public bodies Powers of Attorney Name of public body Judicial office holder

HHJ Rumbelow QC Mr Laurence Robertson: To ask the Secretary of HHJ Francis Sheridan State for Justice how many disputes arising from enduring power of attorney arrangements reached the HHJ Leslie Spittle courts in the most recent year for which figures are HHJ Stephens QC available. [147497] HHJ Jamie Tabor HHJ Charles Tilling Mrs Grant: Under the Mental Capacity Act 2005, the HHJ James Wadsworth Court of Protection, on an application, can rule on whether an objection to the registration of a currently HHJ Nicholas Webb unregistered enduring power of attorney should be HHJ Graham White upheld and it can direct the Public Guardian to register HHJ Wolstenholme or not register the instrument. In 2012 the Court of HHJ Worsley QC Protection received 185 applications objecting to the registration of an enduring power of attorney.

Security Vetting Appeals Panel Sir George Newman—Chair The Court of Protection is also responsible for dealing Deputy Chair with a variety of other applications relating to the property and financial affairs of people lacking capacity, Sir David Penry-Davey including applications relating to how attorneys have Mr Justice Burnett exercised their powers and applications to cancel the Mr Justice Silber existing registration of an enduring power of attorney. The court does not record detailed information on these Sentencing Council Lord Judge, Lord Chief Justice of England types of applications, where the operation of the enduring and Wales power of attorney may be one of a number of issues Lord Justice Leveson—Chairman that the court has to decide. Members: Lord Justice Hughes Mr Justice Globe Sick Leave DJ Anne Arnold HHJ William Davis QC Mr Marcus Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Lord Justice Treacy—(previously Lady Justice (1) how many days of paid sickness leave per Justice Rafferty) individual member of staff are authorised in his HHJ McCreath QC Department on an annual basis; [144490] (2) what steps he is taking to reduce sickness absence Surveillance Commissioners Sir Christopher Rose—Chief Surveillance in his Department. [144504] Commissioner Mrs Grant: The Ministry of Justice (Ministry of Surveillance Commissioners: Sir William Gage Justice HQ, HM Courts and Tribunals Service, National Lord Bonomy Offender Management Service and Office of the Public Guardian) does not have a specified number of authorised Sir Scott Baker days that individual members of staff may take as Sir George Newman sickness leave. Lord Maclean Sickness absence is managed on a case by case basis. Sir John Sheil The sickness absence policies and procedures provide Assistant Surveillance Dr Colin Kolbert guidance to line managers on when it is appropriate to Commissioners: take formal action. Where there are unacceptable levels Sir David Clarke of sickness absence, individual members of staff may be HH Norman Jones dismissed. Reducing sickness absence is a strategic workforce priority for the Department. Practical steps are being Tribunal Procedure Committee Mr Justice Langstaff—Chair taken to deliver this, including increased training and Upper Tribunal Judge Douglas May— support for line managers and support to staff through Member health and well being programmes. Progress is being Upper Tribunal Judge Mark Rowland— Member made. For example, absence rates in the National Offender Management Service have fallen over recent years. Inquiry Inquiry Judicial Office Holder Supreme Court Inquiry into the culture, practices and Lord Justice Leveson—Chair ethics of the press Diana Johnson: To ask the Secretary of State for Inquests Justice when he next expects appointments to be made Inquests Judicial Office Holder to the Supreme Court; how many such appointments he expects to be women; what steps he is taking to 7 July Inquest Lady Justice Hallett increase the number of women in the senior judiciary; Mark Duggan inquest HHJ Keith Cutler and what discussions he has had with the President of Hillsborough inquest Lord Justice Goldring the Supreme Court on this matter. [147415] 197W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 198W

Chris Grayling: The next expected appointment to Once the trial is completed, we will be able to draw the Supreme Court will be in 2016. It is not possible to conclusions, based on sound evidence, and make a full predict how many applicants will be women. The assessment of the approach. This will include details of Government is taking forward measures in the Crime reactivation rates which will be available in full at the and Courts Bill to promote diversity, including flexible end of the trial. working and a ’tipping point’ provision, which allows for diversity to be taken into account where two applicants Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for are of equal merit. There will be a new statutory duty Work and Pensions how many cases with the Child placed on the Lord Chancellor and the Lord Chief Support Agency and with a current liability are in Justice to encourage judicial diversity.The Lord Chancellor arrears of child maintenance; and in what proportion and Lord Neuberger have discussed this and are both of these cases payments have been made towards the committed increasing diversity at the highest levels of arrears in the last 12 months. [146962] our judiciary. Steve Webb: In the quarter to December 2012, of the 756,900 cases with a current liability (positive weekly WORK AND PENSIONS assessment amount) 653,500 also had child maintenance arrears. Of these cases, around 25% had made payments Children: Maintenance towards arrears in the last 12 months. This does not include off system cases. This percentage has been Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for calculated where there has been a payment towards an Work and Pensions (1) what assessment he has made of arrears schedule between 1 January and 31 December the reclassification of arrears trial, being run by the 2012. Child Maintenance Group in his Department, which Investigations show that a proportion of arrears began in June 2012; and what criteria are being used collections have been incorrectly linked to a regular (a) to judge whether a case should be classified as collection schedule rather than an arrears schedule, inactive and (b) to determine that an arrears amount is therefore proportions above may be understated. too small to be worth collecting; [146960] (2) how many cases with the Child Support Agency Stephen Lloyd: To ask the Secretary of State for where child maintenance arrears had been classified as Work and Pensions in how many cases with the Child inactive have been reactivated due to receipt of fresh Support Agency and with a current liability in arrears information in the last 12 months; [146961] and with no current liability are active collection and (3) in how many cases with the Child Support enforcement arrangements in place to recoup the child Agency with a current liability in arrears and not being maintenance arrears still outstanding. [146963] currently actively pursued the arrears have been classified as inactive. [146964] Steve Webb: In the quarter to December 2012, 653,500 cases with a current liability (positive weekly assessment Steve Webb: The Department for Work and Pensions amount) also had arrears. Of these cases 149,800 had (the Department) began the reclassification of arrears an active arrears collection arrangement. trial in June 2012, and this limited trial will continue until the end of October 2013. In the quarter to December 2012, 146,100 cases without a current liability (positive weekly assessment amount) The purpose of the trial is to use a random sample of also had arrears. Of these cases 50,000 had an active cases to understand the scope for classifying arrears as arrears collection arrangement in place. inactive in respect of our active caseload and, where arrears have been made inactive, the potential volume These figures have been calculated by considering the of cases where we will subsequently reactivate those Child Support Agency live and assessed caseload on arrears. CS2 and CSCS system cases (the 2003 and 1993 schemes). For the purposes of the trial, cases can be classified Figures are rounded to the nearest 100 and includes as inactive where collection is not currently possible for that small proportion of our cases where there is no the following reasons: longer a qualifying child, which have a payment schedule in place. (a) the Department has no legal jurisdiction, (b) the Department is unable to trace the non-resident parent, Due to the number of small systems in place to report enforcement information, it is not possible to (c) where the circumstances of the case prevent the use of the Department’s enforcement powers or all the appropriate powers determine how many of the above cases are undergoing have been used to no avail, or enforcement actions, within cost limits. (d) the arrears are uneconomic to pursue. Full details of all enforcement actions are shown on Arrears are considered to be uneconomic to pursue if Page 34 of Child Support Agency’s Quarterly Summary the total sum owed is less than the set “de minimis” rate of Statistics published at: and the arrears total is likely to remain below that rate http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd1/child_support/2012/ into the long term. We set the “de minimis” rate as csa_qtr_summ_stats_dec12.pdf broadly representative of the cost to the Department of taking initial, low level enforcement action in respect of Fiona Mactaggart: To ask the Secretary of State for those arrears. Work and Pensions whether his Department expects to To date, arrears have been classified as inactive in receive any fee income in 2013-14 from charging 20 cases where there is a current child maintenance parents who use the new statutory child maintenance liability and with arrears not being actively pursued. system. [146991] 199W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 200W

Steve Webb: In December, following extensive testing, Steve Webb: The Department for Work and Pensions we introduced the 2012 scheme as a pathfinder for a published an impact assessment in August 2011 which small number of clients. We are carefully observing the estimated the average loss in benefit entitlement for results and progress so far has been good. During the those claimants affected by the raising of the age threshold course of 2013, the scheme will gradually be opened to for the shared accommodation rate of local housing greater volumes and eventually will be opened to all allowance to 35 years old. This is contained in Annex 2, new applicants. Only when the scheme has been shown Table 1 at the following web address: to be working well after it has been opened to all new http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/eia-hb-shared-accommodation- applicants will application and collection fees to support age-threshold.pdf and promote collaboration be introduced. Consequently, it is not expected that the Department will receive any Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for fee income in 2013-14. Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 4 March 2013, Official Report, column 883W, on housing Sir Bob Russell: To ask the Secretary of State for benefit, what methodology he has used to calculate the Work and Pensions whether a term of imprisonment discretionary housing payment funding available for by a parent with shared parental responsibilities is each local authority. [147498] disregarded by the Child Support Agency when calculating (a) maintenance payments and (b) shared responsibility requirements. [147314] Steve Webb: Following discussion with the Local Authority Associations about the distribution of Steve Webb: Once the Child Support Agency has discretionary housing payments, it was agreed to target been made aware of a term of imprisonment, the case resources according to need. To achieve this aim, the will be reassessed. The effect of a prison term is that the methodology applies a different approach to the four weekly child maintenance calculation payable by the component parts of the total discretionary housing non-resident parent will be reduced to nil. As a result of payment allocation for 2013/14. the nil calculation, any reductions that had previously Local authorities were advised of the basic formula been made for shared responsibilities will no longer used in the attached circular: apply. Housing Benefit http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/s1-2013.pdf Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions how many households in receipt of Work and Pensions (1) how many households with local housing allowance were in receipt of the (a) individuals aged between 25 and 35 received an shared accommodation rate, (b) one bedroom rate, (c) exemption from the shared accommodation rate due to two bedroom rate, (d) three bedroom rate and (e) four being clients of agencies in multi-agency public bedroom rate in (i) December 2011 and (ii) January protection arrangements in 2012; [146762] 2013. [146740] (2) how many households with individuals aged between 25 and 35 received an exemption from the Steve Webb: The table gives the information requested, shared accommodation rate owing to the individual where possible, for December 2011 and November 2012, having spent at least three months in a homelessness which is the latest month for which data are available. hostel at which resettlement support was issued to this Housing benefit claims assessed under the local housing allowance individual in 2012. [146763] LHA entitlement December 2011 November 2012

Shared n/a 210,840 Steve Webb: This information is not available. accommodation rate Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for One bedroom n/a 387,830 Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the Two bedrooms 457,940 496,330 number of households affected by the raising of the Three bedrooms 166,370 185,900 age threshold for the shared accommodation rate to 35. Four bedrooms 51,090 59,980 [146802] Notes: 1. The data refers to benefit units, which may be a single person or a couple. 2. Figures are rounded to the nearest 10. Steve Webb: The Department for Work and Pensions 3. Recipients are as at second Thursday of the month. 4. The information has been drawn from the single housing benefit extract. No published an impact assessment in August 2011 which adjustments have been made to the raw data supplied by local authorities. There estimated the number of claimants affected by the are known to be data recording issues affecting the numbers entitled to the raising of the age threshold for the shared accommodation shared accommodation rate and one-bedroom LHA rate for earlier periods. For this reason, numbers have not been provided for these categories of entitlement rate to 35. This is contained in Annex 2, Table 1 at the for December 2011. following web address: 5. SHBE is a monthly electronic scan of claimant level data direct from local authority computer systems. It replaces quarterly aggregate clerical returns. The http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/eia-hb-shared-accommodation- data are available monthly from November 2008 and November 2012 is the age-threshold.pdf most recent available. Source: Single Housing Benefit Extract (SHBE) Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing Sheila Gilmore: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what the average loss in benefit Lilian Greenwood: To ask the Secretary of State for entitlement was for those households affected by the Work and Pensions what guidance he has issued to raising of the age threshold for the shared local authorities in relation to discretionary housing accommodation rate of local housing allowance to payments allocated to those affected by the under- 35 years old. [146741] occupancy penalty. [146889] 201W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 202W

Steve Webb: The Department has consulted with Steve Webb: Households with a severely disabled local authorities on the discretionary housing payments child who is unable to share a bedroom because of their guidance which will be published before 1 April. The disability will retain housing benefit for the additional revised guidance includes advice on how the additional room. £30 million allocated to the discretionary housing payment This follows a Court of Appeal judgment about the scheme can be used to support those affected by the treatment of disabled children under the size criteria removal of the spare room subsidy. rules in private rented accommodation last year. Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work This will apply to social sector tenants from April and Pensions (1) how many (a) disabled, (b) single when the spare room subsidy is removed. parent and (c) foster carer households will be affected We have issued further guidance to local authorities by the under-occupancy penalty or bedroom tax in today to inform them that a family will keep their spare Camberwell and Peckham constituency; [147533] room subsidy, where their child’s disability means they (2) how many (a) disabled, (b) single parent and (c) cannot share a bedroom, as a result of the Court of foster carer households will be affected by the Appeal judgement. under-occupancy penalty or bedroom tax in Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Bermondsey and Old Southwark constituency. [147536] for Work and Pensions whether severely disabled Steve Webb: There is no such policy as the bedroom people will be exempt from the under-occupancy tax. penalty. [147544] Impacts of the removal of the spare room subsidy are Steve Webb: Severely disabled people are not exempt not available at a local authority level. from the removal of the spare room subsidy. However, Estimated numbers of affected claimants in Great where a severely disabled person receives overnight care Britain (a) where either the claimant or their partner from a non-resident carer or team of carers, an additional will be disabled and (b) who will be single parents are bedroom will be allowed when determining the number given in the equality impact assessment at: of bedrooms they need. We have also allocated funds to http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/eia-social-sector-housing-under- local authorities to support disabled people who have occupation-wr2011.pdf significant adaptations to property. The Department estimates that fewer than 5,000 affected The measure will however be monitored and evaluated claimants in Great Britain will be foster carers. over a two-year period from April this year. Initial findings will be available in 2014 and the final report in Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work late 2015. and Pensions how many council tenant households will be affected by the under-occupancy penalty or Jobseeker’s Allowance bedroom tax in Bermondsey and Old Southwark constituency. [147534] Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions what proportion of new jobseeker’s Steve Webb: There is no such policy as the bedroom allowance claims have been made online in each month tax. since January 2012. [147493] Impacts of the removal of the spare room subsidy are not available at a local authority level. Mr Hoban: The information relating to the proportion Numbers of affected claimants in Great Britain who of new claims to jobseeker’s allowance submitted online are local authority tenants are given in the impact that is available via the Department for Work and assessment at: Pensions internet site is provided in Table 1 as follows: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/social-sector-housing-under- As part of Department for Work and Pensions occupation-wr2011-ia.pdf commitment to new standards of transparency we publish Business Plan indicator data, including jobseeker allowance Ms Harman: To ask the Secretary of State for Work claims submitted online, via our “Publication: Business and Pensions how many housing association tenant Plan Transparency Measures” internet pages. households will be affected by the under-occupancy Table 1: The proportion of new jobseeker’s allowance claims that have been made penalty or bedroom tax in Bermondsey and Old online January 2012 to January 2013 Southwark constituency. [147535] Percentage Steve Webb: There is no such policy as the bedroom January 2012 19.7 tax. February 2012 17.9 March 2012 19.6 Impacts of the removal of the spare room subsidy are April 2012 23.7 not available at a local authority level. May 2012 23.4 Numbers of affected claimants in Great Britain who June 2012 29.5 are housing association tenants are given in the impact July 2012 30.9 assessment at: August 2012 32.1 http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/social-sector-housing-under- September 2012 39.0 occupation-wr2011-ia.pdf October 2012 39.3 November 2012 41.9 Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State December 2012 45.5 for Work and Pensions whether households with a January 2013 51.4 severely disabled child will be exempt from the Source: under-occupancy penalty. [147543] MISP 203W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 204W

Personal Independence Payment Social Security Benefits

Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work Helen Goodman: To ask the Secretary of State for and Pensions what recent representations he has Work and Pensions what assessment he has made of received on reducing the qualifying distance used to the proportion of people able to use the internet who assess a claimant’s eligibility for the mobility receive (a) jobseeker’s allowance, (b) employment component of personal independence payment; and if support allowance, (c) income support, (d) child tax he will make a statement. [147400] credits, (e) working tax credit and (f) housing benefit. [147542] Esther McVey: We have not tightened the criteria in the ‘Moving around’ activity between the second and Mr Hoban: Data is not available on the proportion of final drafts of the personal independence payment (PIP) internet users in receipt of particular benefits. assessment criteria. We had always intended that being However, the recent DWP research report “Work and unable to walk more than 50 metres should lead to the welfare system: a survey of benefits and tax credits entitlement to some rate of the Mobility component. recipients” (Tu, T. and Ginnis, S., 2012)1 assesses what However under the second draft of the assessment proportion of benefit recipients use the internet and being unable to walk 50 metres did not automatically finds the following levels of internet usage by benefit entitle claimants to the enhanced rate. Within the group type: who could walk up to 50 metres we wanted those who 1 http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2011-2012/rrep800.pdf face the greatest barriers to mobility to receive the enhanced rate and the remainder the standard rate. In Percentage of claimants who use the the second draft of the assessment criteria we differentiated Benefit internet by the type of aid and appliance an individual needed. Jobseeker’s allowance 88 In the final version of the criteria we differentiate by Employment support allowance 64 distance, which we feel is clearer. Income support claimants 65 In the final draft individuals who cannot walk 20 metres Child tax credit claimants 89 can be certain they will receive the enhanced rate, Working tax credit claimants 86 regardless of whether they need an aid or appliance. Housing benefit claimants 71 Individuals who can walk distances longer than 20 metres could still receive the enhanced rate, depending on In total, 78% of claimants used the internet, with whether they can do so safely, to an acceptable standard, 48% using it every day. Of those who used the internet, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period. 90% accessed the internet from their own home. (Total claimants includes those claiming carer’s allowance, The Government has now included in regulations incapacity benefit and council tax benefit as well as that consideration must be given to whether claimants above benefits). can carry out activities safely, to an acceptable standard, repeatedly and in a reasonable time period. N.B. respondents in this survey were head of benefit units but were responding on behalf of entire benefit Since publishing the final version of the assessment unit. criteria the Department for Work and Pensions has received a number of representations from hon. Members, Social Security Benefits: Greater London members of the public and organisations representing disabled people on this issue. Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of 27 February Helen Jones: To ask the Secretary of State for Work 2013, Official Report, column 560W, on Social Security and Pensions what recent representations he has Benefits: Greater London, how many children are received on the difficulties of assessing people with domiciled in those households affected by the benefit fluctuating conditions for personal independence cap in the London borough of (a) Bromley, (b) payment; and if he will make a statement. [147401] Croydon, (c) Enfield and (d) Haringey. [146469]

Esther McVey: The Department for Work and Pensions Mr Hoban: The following table shows the number of received a number of representations from hon. Members, children domiciled in those households affected by the members of the public and organisations representing benefit cap in (i) Bromley, (ii) Croydon, (iii) Enfield and disabled people regarding assessing people with fluctuating (iv) Haringey. conditions, both during the formal consultation on the second draft of the personal independence payment Local authority Number of children (PIP) assessment criteria, and since its conclusion. Bromley 1,100 We know that assessing fluctuating conditions is very Croydon 2,900 difficult. We believe our approach strikes the right Enfield 6,000 balance, looking at the circumstances of the individual Haringey 3,500 and the impact of their health condition or impairment Total 13,500 over a 12 month period. It takes into account where claimants’ ability to carry out activities is affected on The figures presented above are consistent with the the majority of days in the year, at any point on those impact assessment published on 16 July 2012. The days. We will be closely monitoring how the assessment figures in the table assume that the situation of these works for people with fluctuating conditions following households will go unchanged, and they will not take the implementation of PIP. any steps to either work enough hours to qualify for 205W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 206W working tax credit, renegotiate their rent in situ, or find Gender (All)”. We expect a similar number of payments alternative accommodation. The Department is identifying to be made in future years. This information is available and writing to all the households who are likely to be on the internet at: affected by the cap and we are offering advice and http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/index.php?page=wfp support through Jobcentre Plus, including, where Over 95% of winter fuel payments are made appropriate, early access to the Work programme before automatically, without the need to claim, based on the cap is introduced in April 2013. information held in DWP records. A small number of people whose circumstances we do not know need to Universal Credit make a claim. It is not possible to give the exact number of eligible people, but we have no reason to estimate Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for that eligibility is materially different from the number of Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of payments made. 12 December 2012, Official Report, column 387W, on universal credit, which parts of the universal credit Work Capability Assessment programme are currently using agile, rather than waterfall, software techniques; and in what Mr Meacher: To ask the Secretary of State for Work circumstances agile techniques are regarded as and Pensions when he intends to reply to the request appropriate for developing software for the from the hon. Member for Oldham West of 31 January programme. [147495] 2013 for him to receive a delegation to examine the need for urgent reform of the descriptions and Mr Hoban: In a programme as complex as universal procedures used by Atos Healthcare in their work credit, which includes new IT developments and changes capability assessments. [147597] to existing IT assets, both agile and waterfall methods may be appropriate at different times. As examples, Mr Hoban: I replied to the right hon. Member on initial development used agile techniques while, in its 5 March 2013. final stages of testing for the pathfinder from April 2013, the programme is using the waterfall approach—a Work Programme standard DWP testing methodology. Mr Jim Cunningham: To ask the Secretary of State Stephen Timms: To ask the Secretary of State for for Work and Pensions what support is in place for Work and Pensions pursuant to the answer of participants who complete the full two years of the 17 September 2012, Official Report, column 536W, on Work programme without finding a job at the end of universal credit, which parts of the universal credit IT the process. [147545] system are being delivered by (a) Accenture, (b) BT, (c) Capgemini, (d) Hewlett Packard and (e) IBM. Mr Hoban: Last year we ran a small-scale trial to [147496] understand how best to support those jobseeker’s allowance claimants who remain on benefit after completing the Mr Hoban: Accenture is delivering the claimant and full two years of the Work programme. An initial evaluation agent facing applications. and analysis of the off-benefit impact from the trial was IBM is delivering the “back end”processing applications. published on 6 December 2012. Hewlett Packard (HP) is delivering the hardware for The evidence from the trial will help inform the the UC IT system and the work services application as Department’s decisions on the development of a national well as hosting the UC applications in production. programme of support for those claimants, the first BT is delivering telephony services to support both cohort of which arrive in June 2013. We will make an DWP agents and claimants. announcement in due course. Cap Gemini is providing consultancy support.

Winter Fuel Payments: Kilmarnock COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT

Cathy Jamieson: To ask the Secretary of State for Community Development Work and Pensions what estimate he has made of the number of pensioners who will claim winter fuel Mr Lammy: To ask the Secretary of State for allowance in Kilmarnock and Loudoun constituency in Communities and Local Government how his (a) 2014, (b) 2015 and (c) 2016. [147321] Department is working with local authorities and public services to develop community involvement Steve Webb: The information requested is not available. strategies, including a strategy to increase levels of neighbourhood volunteering. [146830] Caseload forecasts for Great Britain by individual benefit, including winter fuel payment, can be found on Mr Foster: This Government trusts local authorities the internet at: to develop their own community involvement strategies. http://research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd4/autumn_2012_211212.xls The new rights in the Localism Act 2011 open up new Table 1c provides caseload by year to 2017/18. possibilities for local authorities and communities to Information on the number of winter fuel payments work together to improve their local area. How this is paid is provided in the document “Winter Fuel Payment done will depend on each area, and the issues the recipients 2011-12 by Parliamentary Constituencies and community wants to address. 207W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 208W

Government recognises some local authorities and families in (a) Barrow and Furness constituency and communities may want help to use the new rights and (b) Cumbria were registered as homeless in each of the we are providing over £40 million of support. Further last three years; [147008] details can be found using the website: (2) how many families in (a) Barrow and Furness www.mycommunityrights.org.uk constituency and (b) Cumbria were housed in bed and Government is also enabling people to get involved breakfast accommodation as a result of homelessness with meaningful social action and volunteering. A great in each of the last three years; and what the average example is the National Citizen Service which gives 16 duration of a family’s stay in such accommodation was and 17-year-olds from all backgrounds the opportunity in each such year. [147009] to work together, to take on new challenges and to make a difference in their communities. Mr Prisk: Information on the numbers of homelessness acceptances is presented in the following table. The Council Tax Benefits table also includes the numbers of families in bed and breakfast accommodation. Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Although the Department collects information on Communities and Local Government what estimate he the time periods spent by households in temporary has made of the number of households in each local accommodation as a whole, this is not collected separately authority in England who will be affected by for bed and breakfast accommodation. The Department reductions in council tax benefit. [147406] does, however, collect information on the numbers of families that have been in bed and breakfast accommodation Brandon Lewis: Information regarding the design of for six weeks or more. This is currently published nationally. local schemes and the number of households affected is We are investing £470 million in homelessness prevention not held centrally. over four years (2011-12-2014-15) to help local authorities Councils already set council tax, collect it and administer and voluntary sector organisations prevent and tackle the benefit and it makes sense for them to decide the homelessness, rough sleeping and repossessions. levels of support people should receive with their council We have also increased the discretionary housing tax bills. Councils are best placed to understand local payments pot to around £400 million over the Spending priorities and to take these local factors into account Review period to help families and those in vulnerable when deciding on levels of support. situations with the transition of welfare reform changes. More broadly our reforms will give councils stronger It is unacceptable and illegal to place families with incentives to support local firms, cut fraud, promote children in bed and breakfast accommodation except in local enterprise and get people back into work. They an emergency and even then for no more than six weeks. will also contribute to the Government’s deficit reduction programme. Welfare reform is vital to tackle the budget We called on local housing authorities not to use bed deficit we have inherited from the last Administration, and breakfast for families as one of ten challenges we under which council tax benefit expenditure doubled. set them in the recent Ministerial Working Group Report on Homelessness. Hilary Benn: To ask the Secretary of State for Homelessness acceptances Communities and Local Government what estimate he January has made of the average increase in annual council tax to September payments for households (a) making some payment 2009 2010 2011 20121 currently and (b) not currently paying council tax as a result of reductions in council tax benefit. [147407] Allerdale 93 109 74 36 Barrow-in-Furness 52 23 26 22 Brandon Lewis: Information regarding the design of Carlisle 122 108 181 73 local schemes and the number of households affected is Copeland 51 104 89 86 not held centrally. Eden 17 11 9 2 South Lakeland 72 41 52 27 Homelessness Barrow and Furness constituency2 124 64 78 49 Cumbria3 407 396 431 246 Jack Dromey: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the reasons Families in bed and breakfast accommodation are for the time taken to publish the statutory As at 30 September each year homelessness statistics in England for October to 2009 2010 2011 2012 December 2012. [147594] Allerdale 0000 Barrow-in-Furness 0120 Mr Prisk: The publication date for the Statutory Carlisle 0360 Homelessness Statistics release for October to December Copeland 0010 2012 has been amended from 7 March by departmental Eden 0000 statisticians to allow for further quality assurance work. South Lakeland 0100 We will publish the revised release date shortly. Barrow and Furness constituency2 0220 Cumbria3 0590 Homelessness: Cumbria 1 Figures for 1 October to 31 December 2012 are not yet available. 2 Comprises the districts of Barrow-in-Furness and South Lakeland. 3 Comprises all six districts listed above. John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for Source: Communities and Local Government (1) how many PIE returns from local authorities 209W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 210W

Housing Associations: Cumbria The measure should also encourage social landlords to be more strategic in the allocation of property. It should also influence their building programmes, helping John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for to ensure more appropriately sized accommodation for Communities and Local Government what assessment demand. The Government is providing significant finance he has made of the potential effect of the introduction for new affordable homes to support the future provision of universal credit on the finances of housing of housing. associations operating in Cumbria. [147007] The Government’s impact assessment for the removal of the spare room subsidy was published by DWP: Mr Prisk: The Department for Communities and Local Government is working alongside the Department http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/social-sector-housing-under- for Work and Pensions to ensure that universal credit is occupation-wr2011-ia.pdf designed in a way that protects social landlords’ financial This highlights that it is not possible to make robust position. To help achieve this, we are working closely assessments of the impacts for landlords and tenants as with a group of social landlords from six areas across there is little research on the possible behavioural impacts the country on the direct payment demonstration projects, of changing housing benefit in the social rented sector. to test the impact of paying housing benefit direct to However, DWP is commissioning external researchers tenants. to monitor and evaluate the impacts of the measure, to report in 2015. More information, including the payment rates for the first four payments of the projects (three, in the case Local Development Frameworks of Edinburgh) and further background can be found in the press package released by the Department for Work and Pensions in December 2012: Stephen McPartland: To ask the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government what the http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/direct-payment-demo-figures.pdf average cost to local authorities is of preparing a local A copy of this document is available in the Library of development framework; and how many such the House. applications have not been accepted in the last year. A key aim of the demonstration projects is to explore [146226] the best safeguards to protect tenants and social landlords from the risk of increases in rent arrears. The projects Nick Boles: Data on costs is not centrally held. Councils’ are also helping local authorities and housing associations statutory planning functions are financed by central understand how they need to prepare for the introduction Government grant, locally retained revenues and planning of universal credit. We intend to use the evidence gathered fees. My Department follows the New Burdens doctrine from the projects to inform the design of universal when introducing duties on local authorities. We have credit, including these safeguards to protect the financial also offered councils a range of practical assistance to position of social landlords and reduce the risks of help them prepare up to date Local Plans. tenants falling into debt. In relation to the examination of councils’ Local Universal credit is about making work pay, so that Plans, I refer the hon. Member to the answer of 25 February everyone becomes better off when they move into work, 2013, Official Report, House of Lords, column 256WA. or when they start working longer hours. By removing Non-domestic Rates the distinction between being in work and out of work, by ensuring that there is a clear financial return for each extra hour worked, and by removing the existing hours David Morris: To ask the Secretary of State for rules, universal credit is expected to increase the income Communities and Local Government what guidelines of the poorest workers, increase employment, reduce his Department gives the Valuation Office Agency on poverty and to start to break of the cycle of workless the time taken to make a decision on business rates households in succeeding generations. revaluation. [146636] Brandon Lewis: The decision to postpone the 2015 Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing business rates revaluation has been made by the Government. Clause 25 of the Growth and Infrastructure Mark Hendrick: To ask the Secretary of State for Bill will postpone the 2015 revaluation to 2017. Communities and Local Government what assessment More broadly, in relation to day-to-day valuation he has made of the effects of the housing benefit work, the Valuation Office Agency act independently of under-occupancy charge on (a) the future provision of Ministers in setting rateable values and dealing with housing and (b) homelessness in local authorities in appeals and the Department of Communities and Local England and Wales. [146475] Government does not issue guidelines regarding their work. However, the Valuation Office Agency’s performance Mr Prisk: There are 249,000 overcrowded households indicators are agreed with the Department of Communities in the social sector, while nearly 1.5 million under-occupy. and Local Government and are published in their annual The removal of the spare room subsidy should encourage report. more effective use of social housing by encouraging tenants to move to properties suitable for the size of Social Rented Housing: Cumbria their household, or taking in a lodger to occupy a spare bedroom. The Localism Act, and the introduction of John Woodcock: To ask the Secretary of State for ‘Homeswap Direct’, has made it easier for social tenants Communities and Local Government what estimate he to move. has made of the number of social landlord houses in 211W Written Answers12 MARCH 2013 Written Answers 212W

(a) Barrow and Furness constituency and (b) A DWP impact assessment on the Social Sector Size Cumbria that are in (i) under-occupation and (ii) Criteria is available at the following link: over-occupation. [147010] http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/social-sector-housing-under- Mr Prisk: Information at the local authority district occupation-wr2011-ia.pdf level about under-occupation and overcrowding across Data from the 2011 census are available giving the whole social rented sector is not currently collected overcrowding by local authority but not broken centrally. down by tenure. See Table QS412EW at the following DWP will collect data on overcrowding and under- link: occupation for housing benefit claimants in the social rented sector as part of the implementation of the http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/census/2011/census- Social Sector Size Criteria. data/index.html

ORAL ANSWERS

Tuesday 12 March 2013

Col. No. Col. No. TREASURY ...... 137 TREASURY—continued Alcohol and Fuel Duty ...... 147 Inflation: Average Earnings ...... 148 Budgets 2010 and 2011...... 152 Interest Rate Swapping ...... 140 Child Poverty ...... 144 Lending and Equity ...... 141 Competitiveness...... 137 National Infrastructure Plan...... 151 Corporation Tax ...... 146 Tax Avoidance ...... 150 Credit Rating ...... 139 Topical Questions ...... 152 Debt...... 143 Unemployment (Halifax) ...... 143 Income Tax ...... 149 WRITTEN MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

Tuesday 12 March 2013

Col. No. Col. No. BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 5WS HOME DEPARTMENT...... 6WS Contingencies Fund Advance ...... 5WS Carriers’ Liability Consultation ...... 6WS HMIC Review (Jimmy Savile)...... 7WS COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 5WS WALES...... 8WS Translation into Foreign Languages...... 5WS National Assembly for Wales (Electoral Arrangements) ...... 8WS DEFENCE...... 10WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 9WS Reserves Call-Out Order ...... 10WS Housing Benefit Reform ...... 9WS WRITTEN ANSWERS

Tuesday 12 March 2013

Col. No. Col. No. ATTORNEY-GENERAL ...... 129W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT— Beef: Horse Meat ...... 129W continued Social Rented Housing: Cumbria...... 210W BUSINESS, INNOVATION AND SKILLS ...... 172W Billing ...... 172W CULTURE, MEDIA AND SPORT ...... 133W Business: Finance...... 172W Digital Technology: Epilepsy ...... 133W Copyright...... 173W Pornography: Internet...... 134W Data Strategy Board ...... 173W Public Libraries: Internet ...... 134W EU Grants and Loans...... 173W Exports ...... 174W DEFENCE...... 158W Fossil Fuels: Reserves...... 174W Afghanistan ...... 158W Greenhouse Gas Emissions: Business...... 174W Armed Forces: Pensions...... 159W Nuclear Power...... 175W Armed Forces: Recruitment ...... 159W Open Data Institute ...... 175W Armoured Fighting Vehicles ...... 160W Regional Growth Fund ...... 175W Challenger Tanks ...... 160W Regional Growth Fund: Merseyside ...... 175W Federation of Small Businesses...... 160W Seeds: Patents...... 176W Future Large Aircraft ...... 160W Germany...... 161W CABINET OFFICE...... 166W GPT...... 161W Business: Kent...... 166W Iraq...... 161W Employment: Gillingham...... 165W Military Police ...... 161W Jimmy Savile ...... 167W MOD Caledonia ...... 162W Wayra and UnLtd and Bethnal Green Ventures..... 167W Pipelines...... 162W Reserve Forces: Railways ...... 163W COMMUNITIES AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT.. 206W Ultra Electronics...... 163W Community Development...... 206W Veterans ...... 164W Council Tax Benefits...... 207W Veterans: Homelessness...... 164W Homelessness...... 207W Weapons Operational Centre ...... 164W Homelessness: Cumbria ...... 207W Wind Power: Planning Permission ...... 165W Housing Associations: Cumbria...... 209W Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing ...... 209W EDUCATION...... 140W Local Development Frameworks ...... 210W Academies...... 140W Non-domestic Rates...... 210W Academies: Freedom of Information ...... 140W Col. No. Col. No. EDUCATION—continued HOME DEPARTMENT—continued Children: Poverty...... 141W Immigration: EU Nationals...... 147W Curriculum ...... 142W Immigration: Married People ...... 147W Email ...... 142W Independent Police Complaints Commission ...... 148W GCE AS-level ...... 142W Members: Correspondence ...... 148W Schools: Redundancy...... 143W Mental Health Services: Restraint Techniques ...... 148W Olaseni Lewis...... 149W ENERGY AND CLIMATE CHANGE ...... 127W Organised Crime: Northern Ireland ...... 149W Carbon Monoxide: Alarms...... 127W Seahorses: Smuggling ...... 149W Carbon Reduction Commitment Scheme...... 127W UK Border Agency...... 150W Coal ...... 128W Energy: Billing ...... 128W INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT...... 154W Energy Companies Obligation ...... 128W Burma...... 154W Wind Power ...... 129W Developing Countries: Economic Situation ...... 154W G8...... 155W ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL International Assistance...... 156W AFFAIRS...... 150W Overseas Aid...... 156W British Overseas Territories...... 150W Palestinians ...... 157W Dangerous Dogs ...... 151W Plants...... 157W Dogs: Animal Welfare ...... 152W Public Expenditure...... 157W Food: Origin Marking ...... 152W Horse Meat...... 152W JUSTICE...... 190W Packaging: Recycling ...... 153W Civil Disorder: Reparation by Offenders...... 190W Rabies ...... 154W Civil Proceedings: Legal Costs ...... 191W Special Areas of Conservation ...... 154W Coroners ...... 191W Judiciary ...... 191W FOREIGN AND COMMONWEALTH OFFICE..... 168W Powers of Attorney...... 196W Afghanistan ...... 168W Sick Leave ...... 196W British Indian Ocean Territory...... 168W Supreme Court...... 196W Burma...... 169W Capital Punishment...... 169W LEADER OF THE HOUSE...... 127W India ...... 170W Official Cars...... 127W Maldives ...... 170W Saudi Arabia...... 171W NORTHERN IRELAND ...... 134W Sri Lanka ...... 171W Horse Meat...... 134W UK Membership of EU...... 171W Organised Crime ...... 135W Yemen ...... 172W TRANSPORT ...... 129W HEALTH...... 176W Birmingham City University...... 129W Bowel Cancer...... 176W Car Tax...... 130W Cancer ...... 177W High Speed 2 Railway Line ...... 130W Care Homes: Yorkshire and the Humber ...... 177W Northern Rail ...... 132W Deep Vein Thrombosis...... 178W Roads: East Sussex...... 132W Dementia: Yorkshire and the Humber ...... 179W Roads: Safety ...... 132W General Practitioners: Lancashire...... 179W Shipping: Registration...... 133W Genito-urinary Medicine ...... 180W Health Services: Watford...... 180W TREASURY ...... 135W Horse Meat...... 180W Bank Services...... 136W Medicine: Research ...... 180W Banks...... 136W Mental Illness: Employment ...... 181W Banks: Computer Software...... 137W NHS: Competition...... 181W Bonuses: EU Limit ...... 135W NHS: Finance ...... 182W Employment ...... 135W NHS: Staff ...... 182W Housing: Construction ...... 137W Olaseni Lewis...... 183W National Infrastructure Plan ...... 136W Phenylbutazone...... 184W Tax Gap...... 135W Respiratory System: Diseases...... 189W Taxation: Construction...... 137W Thromboembolism...... 189W Taxation: Developing Countries ...... 137W Warm Homes Healthy People Fund...... 190W Tourism...... 138W Trade Competitiveness...... 138W HOME DEPARTMENT ...... 143W UK Membership of EU ...... 138W Anti-social Behaviour Bill (Draft) ...... 143W Unemployment: Young People ...... 139W British Nationality ...... 144W VAT: Energy ...... 139W Children: Abuse...... 144W VAT: Tourism ...... 140W Civil Liberties ...... 144W Communications Data Bill (Draft) ...... 145W WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 197W Customs: Drugs...... 145W Children: Maintenance ...... 197W Deportation: Offenders...... 145W Housing Benefit ...... 199W Detica ...... 146W Housing Benefit: Social Rented Housing ...... 200W Entry Clearances: Overseas Students...... 146W Jobseeker’s Allowance...... 202W Human Trafficking ...... 146W Personal Independence Payment...... 203W Immigration: Applications...... 147W Social Security Benefits...... 204W Col. No. Col. No. WORK AND PENSIONS—continued WORK AND PENSIONS—continued Social Security Benefits: Greater London ...... 204W Work Capability Assessment...... 206W Universal Credit...... 205W Work Programme...... 206W Winter Fuel Payments: Kilmarnock...... 205W Members who wish to have the Daily Report of the Debates forwarded to them should give notice at the Vote Office. The Bound Volumes will also be sent to Members who similarly express their desire to have them. No proofs of the Daily Reports can be supplied. Corrections which Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked in the Daily Report, but not telephoned, and the copy containing the Corrections must be received at the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

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CONTENTS

Tuesday 12 March 2013

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 137] [see index inside back page] Chancellor of the Exchequer

National Commonwealth Military Day [Col. 159] Motion for leave to bring in Bill—(Graham Evans)—agreed to Bill presented, and read the First time

Opposition Day [19th allotted day] Tax Fairness [Col. 162] Motion—(Chris Leslie)—on a Division, negatived Amendment—(Mr Gauke)—on a Division, agreed to Motion, as amended, agreed to Apprenticeships [Col. 225] Motion—(Mr Marsden)—on a Division, negatived

Legal Services [Col. 272] Motion—(Anne Milton); Division deferred till Wednesday 13 March

Rating and Valuation [Col. 273] Motion—(Anne Milton); Division deferred till Wednesday 13 March

Tax Credits [Col. 274] Motion—(Anne Milton); Division deferred till Wednesday 13 March

Petitions [Col. 274]

Falkland Islands Referendum [Col. 277] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Olympic Legacy (Sheffield) [Col. 1WH] Reburial of King Richard III [Col. 23WH] Forced Conversion of Schools to Academies [Col. 31WH] Robert Powell [Col. 54WH] Coventry City Football Club [Col. 63WH] Debates on motion for Adjournment

Written Ministerial Statements [Col. 5WS]

Written Answers to Questions [Col. 127W] [see index inside back page]