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Commander Larry Mcdonald Transcription of Saint Paul Police Oral History Interview with Captain Laurence Francis McDonald Saint Paul Police Officer July 11, 1955 to March 31, 1995 Interviewed December 14, 2005, December 28, 2005, January 5, 2006 By Oral Historian Kate Cavett at HAND in HAND Productions’ office in Saint Paul, Minnesota This project was financed by: a grant from the State of Minnesota through the Minnesota Historical Society’s Grants-in-aid program a grant from the City of Saint Paul Star Grant Program Kate Cavett All photographs are from Commander McDonald’s personal photo collection or from the Saint Paul Police Department’s personnel files. © Saint Paul Police Department and HAND in HAND Productions 2006 Saint Paul Police Department Oral History Project 2 © HAND in HAND Productions and SPPD 2006 ORAL HISTORY Oral History is the spoken word in print. Oral histories are personal memories shared from the perspective of the narrator. By means of recorded interviews oral history documents collect spoken memories and personal commentaries of historical significance. These interviews are transcribed verbatim and minimally edited for accessibility. Greatest appreciation is gained when one can read an oral history aloud. Oral histories do not follow the standard language usage of the written word. Transcribed interviews are not edited to meet traditional writing standards; they are edited only for clarity and understanding. The hope of oral history is to capture the flavor of the narrator’s speech and convey the narrator’s feelings through the tenor and tempo of speech patterns. An oral history is more than a family tree with names of ancestors and their birth and death dates. Oral history is recorded personal memory, and that is its value. What it offers complements other forms of historical text, and does not always require historical collaboration. Oral history recognizes that memories often become polished as they sift through time, taking on new meanings and potentially reshaping the events they relate. Memories shared in an oral histories create a picture of the narrator’s life – the culture, food, eccentricities, opinions, thoughts, idiosyncrasies, joys, sorrows, passions - the rich substance that gives color and texture to this individual life. Kate Cavett Oral Historian HAND in HAND Productions Saint Paul, Minnesota 651-227-5987 www.oralhistorian.org Saint Paul Police Department Oral History Project 3 © HAND in HAND Productions and SPPD 2006 Laurence Francis McDonald was appointed patrolman for the Saint Paul Police Department July 11, 1955 Promoted: Sergeant February 26, 1966 Lieutenant January 14, 1971 Captain July 5, 1989 Lieutenant January 12, 1991 Captain August 31, 1991 Retired: March 31, 1995 Awarded the Medal of Merit Class B on August 26, 1993. KC: Kate Cavett LM: Larry McDonald KC: It is Wednesday, December 15, 2005, We are in HAND in HAND’s Office doing an oral history interview for the Saint Paul Police Department. Could you introduce yourself with your name, age and the rank that you retired from the Saint Paul P.D. LM: My name is Larry McDonald1 and I’m seventy-four years old. I retired in April of 1995 as a commander. KC: What year did you come on to the Saint Paul Police Department? LM: I came on in 1955, April. 1Laurence Francis McDonald (March 16, 1931)was appointed patrolman July 11, 1955; promoted to sergeant February 26, 1966; lieutenant January 14, 1971; captain July 5, 1989; lieutenant January 12, 1991; captain August 31, 1991; and retired March 31, 1995. Awarded the Medal of Merit Class B on August 26, 1993. Saint Paul Police Department Oral History Project 4 © HAND in HAND Productions and SPPD 2006 Academy Class 1955-2 Larry McDonald second row, forth from left KC: You had been in the military? LM: Yes, I spent two years in the Army, 1952-1954. KC: Can you tell me the story about what attracted you to Saint Paul Police. LM: Well, I had an uncle that was a Ramsey County deputy, his name was Pat McDonald. We used to go over to his house quite often, and those were the days where he brought the squad home, the Ramsey County squad home, and parked it alongside his house. And, then in the middle of the night or whenever there was a call they’d have to get dressed, run out, answer the call in the county. The county was pretty rural at that time. My uncle always had the time and the patience to take my older brother and younger brother and me, take us and sit in the police car and show us the few things that they had at that time. I was always fascinated by him because he was a big, tall, good looking, easygoing gentleman that had a lot of patience for kids like myself. When I was in school, I was a police Saint Paul Police Department Oral History Project 5 © HAND in HAND Productions and SPPD 2006 boy2 at Garfield School, and then I went to Saint Michael’s Catholic School, I was their sergeant. KC: School patrol? LM: School patrol. When I got to high school, I was on the student council. I liked, sort of, being involved with structuring people into more orderly things. I became the cafeteria monitor, where they used to clown around and throw food around, and I had the best luck because I used to know the troublemakers and so I would go and talk to everybody beforehand and tell them that that wasn’t going to be tolerated, and I had good results just talking to people and letting them know that it bothered me and that I was going to do something about it if it did get out of hand. So, it’s always been a desire to go and, I suppose in my early days, help people. I thought they [people] were all good until I got on the police department and found out there were a few bad ones out there. But they didn’t even bother me, I just went out there and did my best and figured I was contributing to a better world. KC: You went into the military, and when you came out what were you doing? LM: I started at the railroad when I was sixteen years old, summers, and when I graduated in 1949, I went back to the Northern Pacific Railroad, that 2 Saint Paul School Police Patrol was formed through a city ordinance in February 1921, after Sister M. Carmella, the principal of Cathedral School and a strong advocate for the proposal, organized the first unit. This is believed to be the first School Patrol in the world. Sergeant Frank J. Hetznecker was assigned to direct the school patrol December 22, 1922. In March 1937 Lieutenant Hetznecker was promoted to the superintendent of the school patrol, retiring in December 1958. Saint Paul Police Department Oral History Project 6 © HAND in HAND Productions and SPPD 2006 doesn’t exist today, and I was an office boy. I was the slave of the office. I used to run out and buy cigarettes and snuff and everything else because everybody smoked in the office and spit in the garboons. Then they became mechanized, where we came into the keypunch operating era with Remington Rand and then I worked on a sorter and then a tab. Then they came out with a thing called a computer, which was a great big two- section unit, it was part electronic and part mechanical. I can relate to that today, because the older guys didn’t want anything to do with it, so they said, “Larry, you’re the youngest guy, go over there and run that thing.” So, I had a lot of fun, and there was a Remington Rand mechanic that was there everyday of the week because it wasn’t perfected and then the work, the cards in those big trays, the Remington Rand cards, would pile up and I’d have to work evenings or Saturdays/Sundays to keep the machine running and keep the work coming out. Then I went to the Army and when I came back, of course, they retained my rights at the railroad, so I worked there. Then I took the police exam and I wanted to be outside in the fresh air and to work more with people. The computer was fine, but I could see it was not satisfying me. KC: Let’s talk about how many were at the police exam. LM: Well, the police examination at that time consisted of an exam where you could go into the Park Police Department, which was a separate entity, and we patrolled, at that time, mostly the parks and the playgrounds and the parkways and some of the public buildings. Then there was the regular city police that actually were assigned to anywhere in the city, whatever calls they got. Many of us went to the park police and then the Saint Paul Police Department Oral History Project 7 © HAND in HAND Productions and SPPD 2006 first opportunity we had, you could transfer into the city police department. That was the route that I followed. Got on the park police, was there from April until about July then transferred to the city police. KC: What training did you have to go into the police department? LM: The park police had no training at all, which really surprised me. My brother and I were always interested in firearms, so I had been trained in firearms at Como Park pavilion, the lower level was an NRA course. So, I felt comfortable with the weapon that I purchased.
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