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Smithwick Tribunal - 5 October 2011 - Day 40 1 A P P E A R A N C E S The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SC Mr. Justin Dillon, SC Mr. Dara Hayes, BL Mr. Fintan Valentine, BL Instructed by: Jane McKevitt Solicitor For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael Durack, SC Mr. Gareth Baker, BL Instructed by: Mary Cummins CSSO For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SC Mr. Darren Lehane, BL Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SC Mr. Eamon Coffey, BL Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co. For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SC Mr. Douglas Clarke, SC Instructed by: CSSO For Freddie Scappaticci: Niall Mooney, BL Instructed by: Michael Flanigan Solicitor For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty Instructed by: John McAtamney Solicitor For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney For Buchanan Family/ Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth McCartan Turkington Breen Solicitors NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN. EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17 THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICE PAGE 30, LINE 28 PAGE 45, LINE 17 I N D E X Witness Page No. Line No. CHAIRMAN DELIVERED HIS RULING 1 22 WITNESS 60 EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 5 1 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK 15 24 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAFFERTY 19 27 RE-EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 24 15 WITNESS 61 EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 26 3 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. DURACK 35 1 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. RAFFERTY 41 19 RE-EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 44 30 HARMON NESBITT EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 48 1 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS 61 3 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. LEHANE 80 13 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. ROBINSON 82 24 RE-EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 87 9 Smithwick Tribunal - 5 October 2011 - Day 40 1 1 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 5TH OCTOBER, 2011, AS FOLLOWS: 2 3 CHAIRMAN: Morning, ladies and gentlemen. Before we begin 4 today's proceedings, I want to make an observation about 5 witnesses who give evidence anonymously. It has happened, 6 perhaps accidentally that identity has been disclosed in at 7 least one newspaper. I would appeal strongly to all 8 members of the press not to let that happen. It's very 9 important that various people, including former members, 10 retired members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary who are 11 given anonymity for their own protection and security, that 12 should be respected. I would appeal to everybody to take 13 particular care about that. 14 15 Now, the next matter I want to deal with is the application 16 of Freddy Scappaticci. 17 18 MR. MOONEY: Yes, Chairman. 19 20 CHAIRMAN: Oh, good, yes. Thank you very much, Mr. Mooney. 21 22 THE CHAIRMAN DELIVERED HIS RULING AS FOLLOWS: 23 24 CHAIRMAN: Now, my ruling on the application is as follows: 25 By letter dated 24th February, 2006, Messrs. Michael 26 Flanagan Solicitors made a application before the Tribunal 27 to represent Freddie Scappaticci. The Tribunal's view at 28 that time was that Mr. Scappaticci did not require legal 29 representation. 30 Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 5 October 2011 - Day 40 2 1 By further letter dated 6th May, 2011, Mr. Flanagan sought 2 full representation for his client, Mr. Scappaticci. It 3 was the considered view of the Tribunal that it was 4 appropriate that Mr. Scappaticci be granted limited 5 representation as he had become a person who was at risk of 6 having his good name or his personal property jeopardised. 7 It was, therefore, ordered that Fred Scappaticci be granted 8 representation by solicitor and one counsel, limited to 9 those occasions when he may be mentioned in evidence by 10 order dated 17th May, 2011. 11 12 By application of 28th June, 2011, Mr. Flanagan again 13 requested that the terms of reference be extended to full 14 representation or, in the alternative, to include any 15 occasion when Agent 'Steak Knife' may be mentioned and any 16 occasion when evidence was given in relation to the 17 allegation that members of An Garda Síochána colluded with 18 the IRA in the murders of Chief Superintendent Harry Breen 19 and Superintendent Bob Buchanan. 20 21 By order made on the 26th July, 2011, the Tribunal extended 22 the right of Mr. Scappaticci to limited representation on 23 those occasions when either Mr. Scappaticci or 'Steak 24 Knife' is mentioned. 25 26 By application of the 23rd September, 2001, Mr. Flanagan 27 now applies to extend the terms of his representation to 28 include the occasions when Peter Keeley/Kevin Fulton is 29 mentioned. 30 Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 5 October 2011 - Day 40 3 1 Two, to extend the terms of his representation to include 2 occasions when Martin Ingram/Ian Hurst is mentioned. 3 4 Three, to expedite a comprehensive process of adverting to 5 his legal representatives when all the evidence within its 6 possession relevant to and touching upon Peter Keeley, Ian 7 Hurst and upon the allegations made against 8 Mr. Scappaticci, and, in any event, not later than 21 days 9 of the date of his application. 10 11 Mr. Flanagan represents Mr. Freddie Scappaticci, who 12 according to his previous application has consistently 13 denied the application that he is 'Steak Knife' in 14 interviews, statements and affidavits. He has sought and 15 has been granted immunity to attend the Tribunal whenever 16 the name 'Steak Knife' is liable to be referred to, in that 17 Mr. Scappaticci would be directly affected by the 18 allegation, and however unfairly, his reputation would be 19 at risk when the Agent 'Steak Knife' is mentioned. 20 21 Having considered the application, it is ruled as followed: 22 Mr. Scappaticci's limited representation cannot be extended 23 to being present on every occasion in which reference is 24 made to the name Kevin Fulton/Peter Keeley. Mr. Fulton is 25 ably represented by solicitor and counsel. Should 26 Mr. Fulton give evidence in person, he will be available 27 for cross-examination by Mr. Scappaticci's legal 28 representatives, who will thus be able to guard his 29 interests. The same criteria apply to the application for 30 extension of his representation to mention of Martin Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 5 October 2011 - Day 40 4 1 Ingram/Ian Hurst. 2 3 The Tribunal will continue to abide by its legal 4 obligations and notify Mr. Scappaticci's legal 5 representatives of expected evidence which may prejudice 6 his client's good name from any witness. This will remain 7 the position. 8 9 MR. MOONEY: I'm obliged, Mr. Chairman. 10 11 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. 12 13 MR. DILLON: Chairman, I couldn't see you behind the 14 barrier there. We have two witnesses for you this morning, 15 Chairman, who are two former members of the RUC Special 16 Branch, and they are comprised in the submissions that I 17 made to you a few days ago in relation to the manner in 18 which their evidence will be dealt with. The first point, 19 clearly, is that you have ruled that they're entitled to 20 anonymity. So, in these circumstances could I ask you to 21 rule that the hearing room be vacated very briefly to 22 enable this witness to take his place. 23 24 CHAIRMAN: Yes, I'd be grateful if members of the public 25 would kindly vacate the hearing room so the anonymous 26 witness may take his place behind the screen. 27 28 29 30 Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 5 October 2011 - Day 40 5 1 WITNESS 60, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MR. DILLON 2 AS FOLLOWS: 3 4 MR. DILLON: Thank you Chairman. Now, this current witness 5 goes by the number 60, 6-0, Chairman. He needs to be sworn 6 in, my apologies. 7 Q. Now, Witness 60, first of all, thank you very much for 8 coming to assist the Chairman. I thinks it's the case that 9 you joined the RUC in 1977, is that right? 10 A. That's correct, Mr. Chairman. 11 1 Q. And you retired in 2005? 12 A. That's correct, Mr. Chairman. 13 2 Q. And at the time you retired you were working with CID, is 14 that right? 15 A. That's correct, that was throughout my service, 16 Mr. Chairman. 17 3 Q. Before I go any further, could I just check that you have 18 got the list of ciphers numbers in front of you? 19 A. I don't. 20 4 Q. Okay. In the event that you wish to refer to a member of 21 the RUC, you should use that cipher list. You may, of 22 course, refer to any member of An Garda Síochána by name, 23 there is no difficulty about that. Now, I think your 24 initial posting or station was Lisburn, is that right? 25 A. That's correct, Mr. Chairman. 26 5 Q. And I think it was at that point that you came across Bob 27 Buchanan? 28 A. Yes, he was a uniformed Inspector in Lisburn at that stage. 29 6 Q. In those days what was the nature of his duties? 30 A.
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