A P P E A R A N C E S
The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick
For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SC Mr. Justin Dillon, SC Mr. Dara Hayes, BL Mr. Fintan Valentine, BL
Instructed by: Jane McKevitt Solicitor
For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael Durack, SC Mr. Gareth Baker, BL
Instructed by: Mary Cummins CSSO
For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SC Mr. Darren Lehane, BL
Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors
For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SC Mr. Eamon Coffey, BL
Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL
Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co.
For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SC Mr. Douglas Clarke, SC
Instructed by: CSSO
For Freddie Scappaticci: Niall Mooney, BL Pauline O'Hare
Instructed by: Michael Flanigan Solicitor
For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty, QC
Instructed by: John McAtamney Solicitor
For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney
For Buchanan Family/ Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth McCartan Turkington Breen Solicitors NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN. EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17 THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICE PAGE 30, LINE 28 PAGE 45, LINE 17 I N D E X
Witness Page No. Line No.
JEFFREY DONALDSON
EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY 2 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 20 2
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MS. O'HARE 80 14
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS 81 1
RE-EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY 91 8 Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 1
1 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 9TH OF DECEMBER, 2011, AT
2 12 P.M. AS FOLLOWS:
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4 MRS. LAVERTY: The first witness this morning is
5 Mr. Jeffrey Donaldson, MP.
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7 CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mrs. Laverty. 8
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Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 2
1 JEFFREY DONALDSON, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MRS.
2 LAVERTY AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 MRS. LAVERTY: Good morning, Mr. Donaldson.
5 A. Morning.
6 1 Q. Mr. Donaldson, I think that you are a Member of Parliament
7 for the constituency of Lagan Valley and you have been so
8 since 1997, is that correct?
9 A. Correct.
10 2 Q. And that I think possibly over your career, from a young
11 age, you have been involved in politics in one form or
12 another?
13 A. Yes.
14 3 Q. And you are familiar with the terms of reference of this
15 Tribunal?
16 A. I am.
17 4 Q. And I think that you had a contribution to make at one
18 stage into the establishment of the Tribunal in that you
19 spoke in the House of Commons in relation to one particular
20 aspect of the Tribunal. And I think that you were the
21 person who mentioned, among other people, who mentioned
22 Mr. Owen Corrigan by name?
23 A. That's correct.
24 5 Q. Now, just leading up to that, I think that -- am I correct
25 in thinking that your connection with Breen and Buchanan
26 sort of went back a long way prior to you finally standing
27 up in the House of Commons and making a speech about it?
28 A. That is correct, Chairman. Bob Buchanan had lived in
29 Moira, which actually was my home village at the time, and
30 his family, many of them would live in my constituency, so
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 3
1 at a constituency level I had an interest in the case, but
2 these were two senior, the two most senior police officers
3 murdered by the IRA in the course of what we know as the
4 Troubles. I have a particular interest in the south Armagh
5 area; I have lost two cousins, both RUC, who were murdered
6 by the IRA in south Armagh, so I have always taken a
7 particular interest in that area and, of course, in the two
8 murders that we have mentioned.
9 6 Q. Did you attend the funerals?
10 A. No, I didn't, no.
11 7 Q. Was there any talk in the aftermath as to how this event
12 may have been set up or may have occurred?
13 A. Yes, I think I was out of the country at the time of the
14 funerals but in the aftermath there was, of course, press
15 speculation and there would have been discussion in
16 political circles about how the two most senior officers,
17 at that time to have been killed, would have lost their
18 lives in these circumstances, and some of that speculation
19 would have been around the potential that someone inside
20 the Garda in Dundalk may have passed information to the IRA
21 that assisted them in the execution of these murders.
22 8 Q. Did these rumours die down after a while or did they
23 persist intermittently over the years, the suggestion that
24 perhaps there was a Garda involvement?
25 A. Well, the suspicions and the concerns did not diminish for
26 those of us who continued to take an interest in the
27 matter. In the public eye, of course, events would have
28 overtaken this. 1989 moved rapidly into 1994 and the first
29 IRA ceasefire and the beginnings of what we know as the
30 Peace Process, so over a period of time, and indeed, sadly,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 4
1 with other murders having occurred, public interest may
2 have moved on but certainly for a number of us who maintain
3 an interest in this kind of thing, the suspicion, the
4 concern was still there.
5 9 Q. Now, I think that you were deeply involved in the
6 negotiations in the Weston Park Agreement, is that correct?
7 A. That's correct.
8 10 Q. Which brought about, in fact, this Tribunal and several
9 Tribunals in the North. And I take it that your concern
10 was the Breen and Buchanan case and the Gibson case at the
11 time, so your concern had continued over the years. Now,
12 when did you, again, focus your attention on this
13 particular murder?
14 A. My interest did continue and at the time of the publication
15 of a book by a journalist who I knew, a journalist for the
16 Daily Telegraph, Toby Harnden, a book entitled Bandit
17 Country, he, in that book, provided information and
18 accounts relating to a number of incidents involving south
19 Armagh Provisional IRA. I wasn't involved in the book
20 prior to its publication, but I was very interested in what
21 Mr. Harnden had covered in the publication of the book, and
22 indeed I subsequently met with him after yards to discuss
23 some of the issues that he had raised in his book. So, I
24 suppose, that refocused some of my own attention on these
25 issues and raised concerns or reignited concerns that I had
26 had for a long time.
27 11 Q. Mm-hmm. And did something else precipitate you into taking
28 action subsequent to the publication of the book? Did
29 something else encourage you to take an even closer look at
30 it?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 5
1 A. Well, after the publication of the Harnden book I was
2 approached by William Fraser, who is a victims' campaigner
3 from the south Armagh area; he has lost a number of his own
4 family members, including his father, murdered by south
5 Armagh PIRA. I had met William many times over the course
6 of the years to discuss issues relating to the welfare of
7 victims in south Armagh, but he approached me and he said
8 that he would like to introduce me to someone who may be
9 able to provide information additional to that which had
10 been published in the Harnden book, and so I arranged to
11 meet this individual at the Houses of Parliament in London.
12 The individual, it transpired, was a person known
13 publically as Kevin Fulton. I am aware of his real name
14 and family background.
15 12 Q. I think that has been used in the public?
16 A. Yes.
17 13 Q. So, in fact, it's Peter Keeley, aka Kevin Fulton?
18 A. Correct, yes.
19 14 Q. And in what capacity was he introduced to you?
20 A. He was introduced to me as someone who had been an agent
21 working for the security forces, who had infiltrated the
22 Provisional IRA and had a strong inside knowledge of the
23 Provisional IRA in the County Louth and south Armagh areas.
24 15 Q. Can you recall approximately when you would have met him?
25 A. It would have been, I think, early in 1999, from
26 recollection. It was not long after the publication of the
27 Harnden book, but I don't -- I have checked -- I had an
28 electronic dairy at the time but I am afraid I lost a lot
29 of data from the diary and I haven't got the specific date.
30 16 Q. But you believe sometime early in --
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 6
1 A. Well, sorry, late 1999 or early 2000, it would have been.
2 17 Q. I see. And what did he tell you at the time?
3 A. He introduced himself and his background, gave me a bit of
4 his story. He told me that he had been recruited into, to
5 become an agent when he had joined the British Army, the
6 Royal Irish Rangers. He was, I think, based in Germany
7 after his initial training in Ballymena in County Antrim,
8 and that he had been recruited and had decided, after
9 consideration, to become an agent and to infiltrate the
10 IRA. He had strong family background in the Newry area
11 and, obviously, someone in authority felt his family
12 background would make it easier for him to infiltrate into
13 the Provisional IRA. So he gave me that background. He
14 then went on to talk, in general terms, about the Breen and
15 Buchanan murders because he knew of my interest in
16 particular in that, and the murders of Lord and Lady
17 Gibson, and he said that he had information which would
18 link a member of the Garda with the passing of information
19 to the IRA at the time of the murder of the two senior
20 police officers.
21 18 Q. Did you consider this to be of significance to your
22 position as a public representative?
23 A. I considered it to be highly relevant and of significant
24 interest, but I wanted to be sure that the person I was
25 talking to was who he said he was before I took the matter
26 any further.
27 19 Q. And what steps did you -- how many times did you meet him,
28 as a matter of interest?
29 A. Twice. I met him a number of times since, but in advance
30 of the comments I made in the House of Commons I met him
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 7
1 twice.
2 20 Q. And what steps did you take, then, to verify what he may
3 have told you or his position or his identity or his
4 credibility, put it like that?
5 A. Well, I spoke with a senior member of the security forces,
6 who I had reason to believe would have knowledge of such
7 matters, and sought to confirm that Fulton was who he said
8 he was, and that was confirmed to me.
9 21 Q. That he was an agent?
10 A. That he was an agent of the security forces.
11 22 Q. Yes. And were you told any other information about him?
12 A. No.
13 23 Q. Was it suggested to you at the time, as has been suggested
14 on many occasions here, that he was a fantasist or making
15 up stories?
16 A. No.
17 24 Q. Or an intelligence nuisance?
18 A. No.
19 25 Q. Walter Mitty is another expression that has been --
20 A. Indeed, and that was not a term used in the conversation
21 that I had with the senior member of the security forces.
22 26 Q. Can you tell the Tribunal who the senior member of the
23 security forces was?
24 A. Chairman, I am willing to write the name on a piece of
25 paper and give it to you but I am not willing to give that
26 information orally because this person is still alive and I
27 would not want to impart that information pubically.
28 27 Q. In the event that you do pass on the, and hopefully you
29 will pass on the name of the senior member of the police
30 force to the Chairman, obviously it may be necessary -- or
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 8
1 the security forces -- it may be necessary for the Tribunal
2 to contact him and ask if he is willing to give evidence?
3 A. Well, it's a matter for the Tribunal.
4 28 Q. I see. Do you want to -- is he somebody, first of all for
5 the benefit of the public, was he somebody whose judgement
6 and evaluation of the situation would be without question?
7 A. In my opinion, yes.
8 29 Q. In your opinion. So, being told that Kevin Fulton was an
9 agent from this particular person in the security services
10 assured you that he was who he said he was?
11 A. I was content that this senior member of the security
12 forces would have been in a position to answer that
13 question and I was content with the response that I
14 received from that person.
15 30 Q. Did you inquire as to the credibility of Kevin Fulton at
16 the time?
17 A. I did not go into the specifics of Kevin Fulton's role
18 because I believed that to have pressed that matter at that
19 time would have potentially compromised this member of the
20 security forces, and in the end my interest was in
21 determining whether or not Kevin Fulton was who he said he
22 was. I then had to make judgements based on that and based
23 on what Fulton was telling me, as to what was in the public
24 interest and how I should act thereafter. I was not
25 interested, at that stage, in probing further with the
26 security forces because, obviously, the security forces had
27 the task of pursuing any investigation as to criminal
28 activity that may have arisen in terms of the allegations
29 that were being made.
30 31 Q. Do you expect that if there had been serious considerations
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 9
1 about credibility at that time, that you would have been
2 told about it by the member of the security forces?
3 A. Well, I shared with that member of the security forces the
4 outline of what Fulton had told me and I would have
5 expected that the -- if there was a major issue about
6 credibility, I might have been told about it.
7 32 Q. Yes. You would expected a tip-off, in other words, or to
8 have your cards marked, in the vernacular?
9 A. I would.
10 33 Q. Because of the information you were running by the member
11 of the security forces?
12 A. Yes.
13
14 CHAIRMAN: I think I should have the name of the person in
15 the security forces. Thank you very much, Mr. Donaldson.
16
17 (Name is written down and handed to the Chairman.)
18
19 MRS. LAVERTY: Now, did you have -- you said that you had
20 meetings subsequently with Mr. Fulton. Was that before or
21 after your speech in the House of Commons?
22 A. I had two meetings with Mr. Fulton before my speech in the
23 House of Commons. I have had several meetings since then
24 with him over a period of years.
25 34 Q. Yes, we will come back to your speech -- perhaps we will
26 deal with your speech in the House of Commons now,
27 Mr. Donaldson. I think that it was actually quite well
28 paraphrased in the Camon-Kirwan report as well, but I think
29 that referring to your speech, which was made on 13th of
30 April, 2000, do you have a copy of it there?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 10
1 A. I do, yes.
2 35 Q. I think that we can go down to, perhaps, the last
3 paragraph, Mr. Mills, there, and you say: "Having
4 conducted my own extensive inquiries since the book was
5 published, I believe that there is" -- I presume you are
6 referring there to Bandit Country by Toby Harnden?
7 A. I am.
8 36 Q. "... I believe that there is an overwhelming case for an
9 independent public inquiry into the reasons why Chief
10 Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Bob Buchanan,
11 two of the most senior RUC officers to die during the
12 Troubles, were murdered near Jonesboro as they returned
13 from a meeting with Irish police in Dundalk on 20th of
14 March 1989. Superintendent Buchanan lived at Moira in my
15 constituency. The meeting that he and Chief Superintendent
16 Breen attended was arranged only on the morning of the day
17 in question and took place at 2 p.m. How did the IRA know
18 about a meeting involving such senior officers and the
19 timing of their return to Northern Ireland? In particular,
20 an independent and public inquiry should examine the
21 evidence that Owen Corrigan, a retired Detective Sergeant
22 now living in Drogheda, passed information to the IRA. On
23 the morning on which he died, Chief Superintendent Breen
24 expressed concern about Sergeant Corrigan's known IRA
25 sympathies. Why was action not taken by the Irish police
26 to prevent sensitive information from falling into his
27 hands? Mr. Harnden's book alleges that the RUC had
28 technical information gleaned, one presumes, from the
29 watchtowers in south Armagh, that proved that the IRA was
30 contacted from within Dundalk Garda Station on the day on
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 11
1 which Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent
2 Buchanan were murdered. There are questions that need to
3 be answered about how the IRA attained the information that
4 enabled them to murder those two senior police officers.
5 Several other murders in south Armagh could also have
6 involved collusion between Garda officers and the IRA."
7
8 And I think you go on, then, to refer to the Lord Chief
9 Justice Gibson and Lady Gibson murders, which took place on
10 25th of April, 1987. And you deal in the next paragraph
11 with the Hanna murders, which happened on the 23rd of July,
12 1988. You again raise issues that you feel need to be
13 dealt with, and in that one you say:
14 "Could it be that a Garda source was driving an unmarked
15 car and had made a mistake in identifying the Hanna vehicle
16 as that of Judge Higgins?"
17 And you raise further queries about that which are not part
18 of our remit, obviously.
19
20 You go on then and you refer to a pending case against
21 Sergeant Finbarr Hickey, who has been charged with false
22 possession of passports, and you refer to another IRA
23 member. And at the end of that speech, you, having raised
24 the possibility of Garda collusion in the deaths of Lord
25 Chief Justice Gibson and Lady Gibson, you pose the
26 question: "Did Sergeant Corrigan have access to
27 information relating to Judge Higgins' movements?"
28 And you also say: "The murder of 18 members of the
29 Parachute Regiment near Warrenpoint County Down was also
30 mentioned in the context of the destruction of evidence by
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 12
1 the Irish police."
2 So this was another one of your concerns. Now, this is a
3 matter that is going to be dealt with very shortly because
4 it's an issue where rumours have circulated that may or may
5 not be completely unfounded. What information did you have
6 about Warrenpoint at the time, and the destruction of
7 evidence?
8 A. The information that I had was of a general nature and
9 suggested that there was potential forensic evidence at the
10 firing point on the southern side of the border that could
11 have been of use to the RUC in pursuing their investigation
12 of these murders, and that such forensic evidence, a) had
13 not been shared with the RUC; and b) potentially was
14 destroyed.
15 37 Q. Yes. And so that was a general criticism of the southern
16 police force at the time?
17 A. Well, I would want to be clear, Chairman, that I have a
18 very high regard for the Garda Siochana and I have never
19 sought to blacken the name of the Force because of the
20 actions of some individuals, and I have never pubically
21 stated that the Garda itself, in any systemic way, was
22 involved in collusion. My concern was about the actions of
23 individual members of the Garda who may have, through
24 either acts of omission or acts of commission, assisted the
25 IRA in their campaign. And in the instance of Narrow
26 Water, I was concerned that evidence that could have been
27 of use to the RUC, or indeed the Garda themselves, in
28 pursuing their investigation of what was the largest loss
29 of life on the part of the British Army in the Troubles,
30 that evidence had not emerged.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 13
1 38 Q. And I presume that by including this in your speech, you
2 are reflecting concerns of your constituents?
3 A. Yes.
4 39 Q. Is that correct?
5 A. I recall the day of the Narrow Water bomb. My parents'
6 home where I was living at the time was not far from
7 Warrenpoint. I heard the explosions, the two explosions,
8 and I suppose I had taken a personal interest in Narrow
9 Water, but it would be of interest to my constituents, of
10 course, in a general way, just as there are interests in
11 relation to the other cases that I raised in my comments in
12 the House of Commons.
13 40 Q. You refer to having a personal interest in the Narrow
14 Water --
15 A. Yes.
16 41 Q. -- massacre, really. So, therefore, you would have been
17 investigating any information that came in surrounding
18 this. At any stage, did you hear a -- was a named Garda
19 singled out?
20 A. No.
21 42 Q. And I assume that if there had been, because of your
22 personal interest, you would have heard it?
23 A. I would have hoped that that might have been the case, but
24 not necessarily always.
25 43 Q. Yes. But it may have surfaced at some stage?
26 A. Indeed.
27 44 Q. Indeed. Now, I think to come back to your statement in the
28 House of Commons, I think you also said, for the sake of
29 completeness, that you had asked the minister, Mr. Ingram,
30 about a recent bombing at Lisnarick, County Fermanagh, and
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 14
1 in a supplementary question you said the following:
2 "I thank the minister for his answer. He will be aware of
3 the case of" -- a particular named IRA person -- "who has
4 been identified as a leader of Continuity IRA. He was
5 employed by the Department of Foreign Affairs in Dublin as
6 a consultant working alongside aid agencies in Croatia and
7 is alleged to have been involved in gun running activities.
8 What representations has the Northern Ireland office made
9 to the Department of Foreign Affairs on this matter and on
10 the allegations of collusion involving retired Sergeant
11 Owen Corrigan of the Garda, which I understand are
12 currently being investigated?"
13
14 Now this was actually months later, on the 20th of December
15 2000, that you raised this supplementary question. And the
16 minister replied in the following way:
17 "The question raised by the honourable gentleman is a
18 matter for the Irish Government. I understand, however,
19 that investigations by the Garda into arms importations
20 from Croatia are continuing. Clearly, there will be close
21 cooperation and discussions between the Garda Siochana and
22 the RUC will continue. We cannot comment on current
23 investigations. Furthermore, it would not be appropriate
24 to comment on an individual who has not been convicted of
25 any offence."
26
27 So, on two occasions, in April and in December of that
28 year, in the House of Commons, you raised your concerns and
29 you mentioned, inter alia, ex-Detective Sergeant Owen
30 Corrigan on two occasions. Now, were you ever approached,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 15
1 either between the first speech you gave and the second, by
2 the authorities in the North to ask you the basis for these
3 allegations?
4 A. No.
5 45 Q. Were you subsequently at any stage ever questioned by the
6 authorities in the North?
7 A. No.
8 46 Q. Has anyone ever asked you about this?
9 A. No.
10 47 Q. Prior to today?
11 A. No.
12 48 Q. Yet, you were indicating that you had some information.
13 Were you ever approached by the authorities in the south to
14 ask you for the basis of your assertion in the House of
15 Commons?
16 A. No.
17 49 Q. Does that surprise you?
18 A. One of the reasons why I felt it was important to press for
19 an independent public inquiry was for the very reason that
20 I believed these issues were not being adequately pursued
21 by those whose responsibility it was to pursue them. It
22 surprised me, it disappointed me, but it did not deter me
23 in my determination to press for that inquiry.
24 50 Q. And was it -- was that for that reason that you were
25 pushing the Breen and Buchanan murders and the Gibson
26 murders then, when you entered into the Weston Park
27 discussions?
28 A. It was, and bearing in mind that after the publication of
29 the Harnden book I was told that there was a review of
30 these murders being undertaken by the RUC and the Garda
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 16
1 Siochana, so I was aware that someone was looking into
2 these matters and I indicated my willingness pubically to
3 assist in whatever way I can. But I remained focused on
4 what I could do as a public representative because, for me,
5 the issues here were broader than just the question of
6 convictions. The issue of collusion was one that I felt
7 could not be left to a matter of judicial proceedings; that
8 it warranted and merited an independent public inquiry.
9 51 Q. I think that on a subsequent occasion you referred to the
10 Omagh Bomb in the House of Commons and you referred
11 specifically to Patrick Joseph 'Mooch' Blair, is that
12 correct?
13 A. That is correct.
14 52 Q. And Mr. Blair gave evidence here very recently and he was
15 asked -- it was put to him that Kevin Fulton had basically
16 accused him of involvement in the making of the Omagh Bomb,
17 and he agreed, and it was put to him that that had led to
18 an inquiry being carried out in the North, firstly into how
19 the investigation into the Omagh Bomb was handled and then
20 subsequently into an investigation by the Ombudsman, Nuala
21 O'Loan, and he agreed with all of that, and he also said
22 that at no stage has he ever been questioned by the
23 authorities in the North or the south, he sometimes resides
24 in the south and sometimes in the North and at no stage has
25 he ever been queried about serious allegations that had
26 been made about him by you in the House of Commons, he has
27 never been asked about them. Again, does that surprise
28 you?
29 A. It does.
30 53 Q. Yes. In the response by Sir Ronnie Flanagan to the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 17
1 Ombudsman report, I think in 2003, he categorically stated
2 that Patrick Joseph 'Mooch' Blair was never a suspect in
3 the Omagh bombing. Are you aware of that?
4 A. I am.
5 54 Q. Yes. Yet it seems he was never questioned about it?
6 A. It would seem so.
7 55 Q. Yes. Do you have any observations to make on that, or
8 would you prefer not to?
9 A. Well, I, like these other matters we have referred to
10 earlier, have taken an interest in the Omagh Bomb and in
11 the subsequent investigations, and I cannot explain, and am
12 not in a position to explain, why someone against whom
13 public allegations have been made has not been questioned
14 by the authorities about those allegations. I am not in a
15 position to explain why that would be the case.
16 56 Q. Now, I think that you said that you met Kevin Fulton on
17 further occasions after you gave your speech in the House
18 of Commons, and can you tell the Tribunal what was the
19 nature of those meetings?
20 A. Again, they would have been to discuss specific cases in
21 which Fulton had indicated he had some knowledge, two in
22 particular were of interest to me and I pursued those with
23 Kevin Fulton, and indeed on one occasion Kevin Fulton met
24 with representatives of the families of the victims in
25 those two cases to talk about the knowledge that he had of
26 the circumstances surrounding the murders of their loved
27 ones. So that was the nature of my continuing engagement
28 with Kevin Fulton.
29 57 Q. Was his information of assistance to the victims' families?
30 A. I believe it was.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 18
1 58 Q. Did he, at that stage did he ever discuss his reasons for
2 speaking to you?
3 A. In my discussions with Kevin Fulton, it became clear to me
4 that he was someone who had been asked to fulfil a
5 particular role, but he had concerns for the people who had
6 been -- who had become victims as a result of the
7 activities of the IRA during the period in which he was a
8 member and had knowledge of incidents that included murder,
9 and whether it was a matter of conscience for him, he may
10 be able to answer that, I do not want to pretend to speak
11 for him, but I sensed -- at no stage during all of this
12 period did Kevin Fulton ask for anything for himself. It
13 was only in, I think, 2005, that he first raised with me an
14 issue that he had in relation to a pension but that was
15 totally unconnected to the cases we had previously dealt
16 with; it was a matter relating to his own personal
17 circumstances at that time.
18 59 Q. Was it a matter that had just arisen at that time?
19 A. It was.
20 60 Q. In the two instances that you have described where he
21 assisted the families of victims, was there any -- was that
22 was matter ever published?
23 A. The meetings was facilitated by a senior journalist, but
24 that senior journalist did not publicise the facts of the
25 discussions that took place.
26 61 Q. So these were private meetings?
27 A. They were.
28 62 Q. Yes. Did you know about the statement given, the statement
29 made by Alan Mains the day after the murders? He was Harry
30 Breen's Staff Officer and he was just -- just to remind
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 19
1 you, I don't know whether you know that or not, it was a
2 statement where Harry Breen expressed concerns about a
3 member of the Garda in Dundalk whom Mr. Mains said was
4 Mr. Corrigan?
5 A. I became aware of the concerns that Harry Breen had
6 expressed on the morning of his meeting in Dundalk after
7 the publication of the Harnden book. I did not become
8 aware of the identity of the officer who had made a
9 statement to that effect until after the talks at Weston
10 Park.
11 63 Q. I see. Did you know that there was -- you said you were
12 aware of the concerns that Harry Breen had on the day. How
13 would you have known about that?
14 A. It would have been talked about around the time of the
15 funeral and subsequently.
16 64 Q. You weren't there I think for the funerals?
17 A. No.
18 65 Q. So it must have been subsequently?
19 A. But around the time of the funeral there would have been,
20 in political circles there would have been mention of this.
21 66 Q. Yes. When you made your speech in the House of Commons,
22 were you aware that there was a statement, a formal
23 statement taken from Alan Mains?
24 A. No.
25 67 Q. As part of the murder inquiry?
26 A. No.
27 68 Q. That does not appear to have seen the light of day until
28 about the year 2000?
29 A. No.
30 69 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Donaldson.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 20
1
2 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN
3 AS FOLLOWS:
4
5 70 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: I appear for retired Detective Sergeant
6 Owen Corrigan, I just have to ask you some questions.
7 Mr. Donaldson, if what you said about Owen Corrigan is
8 incorrect, would you agree with me that you have done him a
9 grave injustice?
10 A. The statements that I have made are based on information
11 that has been given to me as a public representative and I
12 believe that I have acted in accordance with my
13 responsibility and in the public interest. I make no
14 apology for that. If, in the end, the information that has
15 been given to me is disproved, then Detective Sergeant,
16 retired, Owen Corrigan would be entitled to feel aggrieved
17 about that.
18 71 Q. And would you believe at that stage that you, by naming him
19 in the House of Commons in the way that you did, in fact
20 did a grave injustice to that man?
21 A. No.
22 72 Q. Do you not agree with me that suggesting that a member of a
23 police force had colluded in the murder of other members of
24 a neighbouring police force, when that turned out to be
25 false, do you not agree that that is a most grave
26 allegation to make?
27 A. It is a serious allegation, but the purpose of this inquiry
28 is to get to the truth of the information that was imparted
29 to me and has been imparted to others. I am content to
30 leave it to this inquiry and to see what conclusion is
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 21
1 reached.
2 73 Q. But if you are incorrect about him, wasn't that man done an
3 injustice by your comments?
4 A. I do not believe so, because my motivation in raising this
5 issue in the House of Commons was to ensure that issues of
6 concern that were brought to me, were brought into the
7 public domain to strengthen the case for the holding of an
8 independent public inquiry.
9 74 Q. As a member of parliament, one of the great privileges you
10 have is the privilege to speak out and not to be taken
11 before any court, isn't that correct?
12 A. That is correct.
13 75 Q. Are you aware of the historical provenance of that
14 privilege that parliamentarians in London have?
15 A. Indeed.
16 76 Q. And it derives from the Bill of Rights in 1689, isn't that
17 correct?
18 A. It does.
19 77 Q. And it is an ancient and historic right that British
20 parliamentarians have?
21 A. That's correct.
22 78 Q. In order to enable them to speak out against interferences
23 in them carrying out their public duties?
24 A. It is.
25 79 Q. And would you agree with me that with that great power
26 comes a great responsibility on Members of Parliament?
27 A. Indeed, indeed.
28 80 Q. And would you agree with me that to make a statement in the
29 House of Commons that a member of the police force, who had
30 never been convicted of a criminal offence, had been
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 22
1 involved in a murder, that is a very grave allegation to
2 make?
3 A. It is.
4 81 Q. And from your experience as a parliamentarian, are you
5 aware of any other circumstance where such an allegation
6 was made against an individual who had not ever been
7 convicted of an offence?
8 A. Yes.
9 82 Q. Could you please tell the Chairman about that?
10 A. Well, there are a number of senior members of the IRA who
11 have been named in the House of Commons in the past, some
12 of them who have not been convicted of offences, including
13 the entire membership of the IRA Army Council.
14 83 Q. Are you aware of any police officer who was named in the
15 House of Commons as being involved in a criminal offence
16 and involved in murder when he had never been convicted of
17 anything?
18 A. I have not researched the matter.
19 84 Q. Can we say to the Chairman that as far as you are aware,
20 you are not aware of any other such example?
21 A. I have not researched the matter.
22 85 Q. But you are not aware of any example, isn't that so?
23 A. Not offhand, but I am sure if I researched, we could find
24 the answer to that question. We are talking about the
25 proceedings of parliament going back to 1689. That is a
26 long period of time. I don't know if during that period of
27 time a police officer has been named in connection with a
28 serious offence such as murder. I would not be surprised
29 if it hadn't occurred previously.
30 86 Q. Your interest in the murders of Chief Superintendent Breen,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 23
1 Superintendent Buchanan and the allegation of Garda
2 collusion was reignited after the publication of
3 Mr. Harnden's book, is that correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 87 Q. And the speech you made in the House of Commons, I just
6 want to refer to a couple of parts of it, if I may. In the
7 third paragraph of your speech, Mr. Donaldson, you state
8 that "Having conducted my own extensive inquiries since the
9 book was published, I believe that there is an overwhelming
10 case for an independent public inquiry."
11 Can you outline for the Chairman what were those extensive
12 inquiries that you conducted?
13 A. Well, first of all, the extensive inquiries relate to all
14 of the matters contained within the book and not just
15 specifically the cases of the murders of Harry Breen and
16 Bob Buchanan, and that is clear from the full content of my
17 speech. The comment about "extensive inquiries" relates to
18 all of the matters that I raised during the course of my
19 speech and not just the Breen and Buchanan case. I spoke
20 to Toby Harnden, the author of the book, at length about
21 the detail contained within his book. I also spoke with
22 others who generally, at a political level, who would have
23 had an interest in such matters, and I spoke to a senior
24 member of the security forces whom I believed would have
25 knowledge about these matters.
26 88 Q. So, am I to take it, therefore, that there were three
27 aspects to your extensive inquiries: First, you spoke to
28 Mr. Harnden about the book, is that so?
29 A. Correct.
30 89 Q. Secondly, you spoke to the senior security source about the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 24
1 book --
2 A. Correct.
3 90 Q. -- on the allegations. Thirdly, there were others, and
4 would included within them be Mr. Fulton?
5 A. Well, I spoke to Mr. Fulton before I spoke to the senior
6 member of the security forces, but, of course, he would be
7 one of those to whom I spoke.
8 91 Q. And of those three or four sources for your extensive
9 inquiries, how many of them named Owen Corrigan?
10 A. Kevin Fulton.
11 92 Q. So the basis for you putting Owen Corrigan's name out into
12 the public domain in the House of Commons was exclusively
13 the information you were given by Kevin Fulton?
14 A. Other sources referred to an unnamed Garda within Dundalk
15 police station, Kevin Fulton was the only person who named
16 that individual, which is why I took the step of checking
17 that Kevin Fulton was who he said he was, so that I could
18 be clear in my own mind, in coming to a judgement about how
19 I should act in the public interest, that I knew who I was
20 dealing with.
21 93 Q. And am I to take it, Mr. Donaldson, that after you spoke to
22 the senior member of the security forces, you got
23 verification in respect of Kevin Fulton's bona fides, if I
24 can put it that way?
25 A. Yes.
26 94 Q. Did you ask the senior member of the security forces
27 whether he was aware of any Garda collusion in the killing
28 of Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan?
29 A. We would have had a general discussion about that.
30 95 Q. What did he say to you?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 25
1 A. I cannot recall his exact words and I am not going to
2 paraphrase what he said.
3 96 Q. Did he suggest to you that Fulton was probably right or did
4 he suggest that he didn't know whether Fulton was right?
5 A. He didn't suggest either.
6 97 Q. OK. So, he didn't give you any corroboration in terms of
7 what Mr. Fulton had said to you about Owen Corrigan, is
8 that fair to say?
9 A. I didn't seek it.
10 98 Q. OK. But he didn't give you any corroboration?
11 A. I didn't seek it.
12 99 Q. Should you not have sought it?
13 A. No, because my objective was to determine how I should act
14 in the public interest in relation to this matter. I was
15 not in the business of going to the police and saying "what
16 are you investigating? How are you investigating? Why are
17 you investigating?" My role, as a public representative,
18 was to determine whether the information, or the person who
19 was imparting this information to me was who he said he
20 was.
21 100 Q. So I take it from that, Mr. Donaldson, that your interest,
22 when you were speaking to the security forces officer, was
23 primarily on Mr. Fulton to try and establish his
24 reliability as opposed to trying to establish the
25 reliability of the information he had given you?
26 A. Indeed, and with a view to subsequently speaking to
27 Mr. Fulton to ascertain more detail about his knowledge of
28 the events surrounding the murders of Harry Breen and Bob
29 Buchanan.
30 101 Q. Did you not ask this senior security officer as to whether
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 26
1 or not Kevin Fulton, back in 1989, when he alleged he was
2 working as an agent, whether or not he had passed on his
3 information about this Garda collusion to the security
4 forces?
5 A. We had a general discussion about the information that had
6 been imparted to me by Kevin Fulton, but I did not
7 cross-examine this senior security force member on the
8 detail of all of this.
9 102 Q. I wouldn't have expected you to cross-examine him,
10 Mr. Donaldson, but did the senior security force member say
11 to you "Oh, I remember that because back in 1989 Fulton
12 reported to us that in fact there was Garda collusion", did
13 he say anything like that to you?
14 A. I do not recall that having been said to me in those terms.
15 103 Q. With the benefit of hindsight, Mr. Donaldson, do you think
16 it might have been better had you probed the accuracy of
17 Mr. Fulton's information as opposed to simply the
18 reliability of Mr. Fulton as a person?
19 A. I am a public representative, not a public prosecutor. My
20 role is to determine what is in the public interest. It is
21 the job of this Tribunal to probe the veracity of what
22 Kevin Fulton told me. I have simply stated on the public
23 record, and since, that I want these matters to be inquired
24 into further and in the end, for the truth, hopefully, to
25 be established.
26 104 Q. But, Mr. Donaldson, by naming Owen Corrigan in the House of
27 Commons, you did become the public prosecutor of Owen
28 Corrigan?
29 A. No, I became the public representative because I believe
30 the information that had been given to me, it was in the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 27
1 public interest that this information should be made public
2 for the purpose of supporting the case for an independent
3 public inquiry.
4 105 Q. Mr. Donaldson, I don't disagree with you that it is in the
5 public interest for you to put this information into the
6 public domain, but where I do disagree with you is, I say
7 to that you there was absolutely no necessity to name Owen
8 Corrigan in your speech to the House of Commons. Would you
9 agree with that?
10 A. No, I would not. That is a matter of judgement. It is a
11 matter for me, as a public representative, to make a
12 judgement. I am elected to do that. I have a mandate to
13 do that. The people I represent expect me to make
14 judgements on their behalf. I should point out since then
15 I have been re-elected to the House of Commons on three
16 occasions, so I guess I enjoy a confidence of the majority
17 of the people whom I represent, and they make their
18 judgement on the judgements that I make. It is a judgement
19 that I have to make as a politician and it is not a
20 judgement that I am making sitting in a court of law, it is
21 not a judgement that I am making considering whether there
22 should be a prosecution. It is a judgement as to what I
23 believe to be in the public interest. I came to the
24 conclusion, based on the information that was presented to
25 me by Kevin Fulton, that it was in the public interest to
26 make this -- bring this information into the public domain
27 in support of the case for an independent public inquiry.
28 I do not resile in any way from that decision.
29 106 Q. Mr. Donaldson, why was it necessary to name Owen Corrigan?
30 A. I believe it was necessary because there had been rumour
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 28
1 and talk of collusion for some time surrounding this case.
2 There had been calls over a long period of time for the
3 matter to be further investigated, and I felt that it had
4 reached the stage where we needed to bring into the public
5 domain some of the evidence that was available to support
6 the need for that inquiry. I made the judgement, and it is
7 my judgement --
8 107 Q. Oh, absolutely --
9 A. -- that in naming Owen Corrigan, I was demonstrating that
10 there was evidence that was important and relevant and
11 strengthened the case for the holding of such an
12 independent public inquiry. That was my judgement. I made
13 that call. I do not regret making that call. I believe
14 that in making that call, it enhanced the realisation of
15 the holding of this Tribunal of Inquiry.
16 108 Q. I suggest to you, Mr. Donaldson, that your answer, in
17 effect, means that you used Mr. Corrigan as bait to try and
18 get a public inquiry established?
19 A. No, I used the evidence that had been given to me as the
20 justification for the necessity to hold a public inquiry.
21 109 Q. And that information was solely based on what was said to
22 you by Kevin Fulton, isn't that correct?
23 A. No, it was not. The need for a public inquiry was informed
24 by a variety of different things that had occurred. This
25 inquiry is not just on the issue, nor would I want the
26 inquiry just to be on the issue of one individual; it is
27 broader than that, and I said so in the Houses of
28 Parliament in my speech, and there were questions that
29 needed to be answered; those questions are not just the
30 issue as to the conduct of retired Detective Sergeant Owen
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 29
1 Corrigan. So this was not a question of trying to get at
2 an individual; it was a question of getting to the truth of
3 how two senior police officers had met their death in the
4 circumstances that they did.
5 110 Q. My question, Mr. Donaldson, was that your source for naming
6 Owen Corrigan, not the general allegations, your source for
7 naming Owen Corrigan was exclusively Kevin Fulton, isn't
8 that so?
9 A. Well, I am not alone in coming to the conclusion that that
10 evidence was important.
11 111 Q. That is not the question I asked you, Mr. Donaldson.
12 A. It may not be but I am going to answer it.
13 112 Q. Sorry, here I ask the questions and you answer them?
14 A. And I am trying to answer, if you will let me. I was not
15 the only person who came to the conclusion that Kevin
16 Fulton's evidence was important in that respect. And when
17 I read the Cory Report, I noted that Judge Cory, in his
18 conclusions, said "I have concluded that the documents that
19 he had access to reveal evidence that if accepted could be
20 found to constitute collusion" and he specifically, in the
21 same paragraph, referred to "the Fulton statement." I have
22 also, in following the proceedings of this inquiry, I
23 believe that it is generally accepted that the statement
24 made by Kevin Fulton was a tipping point in bringing Judge
25 Cory to the conclusion that there should be an inquiry. So
26 I am not alone in reaching the conclusion that Kevin
27 Fulton's evidence is very important in justifying the need
28 for this inquiry.
29 113 Q. Mr. Donaldson, it's a very simple question I asked you and
30 I am going to ask it to you again: Your only source for
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 30
1 naming Owen Corrigan in the House of Commons was Kevin
2 Fulton, isn't that correct?
3 A. The only source of the name at that time that I had was
4 Kevin Fulton.
5 114 Q. Yes. Thank you very much.
6 A. But it is not the only -- he was not the only person who
7 was saying that there was Garda collusion; there were
8 others saying that.
9 115 Q. I am only here representing Mr. Corrigan. The only person
10 who mentioned to you the name Owen Corrigan was Kevin
11 Fulton?
12 A. As I have stated previously.
13 116 Q. OK, yes. Can I ask you, did you read Kevin Myers' article,
14 as well, in The Irish Times which was published on the 10th
15 March 2000?
16 A. No.
17 117 Q. Have you read it recently in light of it --
18 A. I am aware of it, yes.
19 118 Q. You are aware of it, because Mr. Myers mentioned a number
20 of other murders in Northern Ireland which very closely
21 correlated with the murders you mentioned in your speech in
22 the House of Commons, are you aware of that?
23 A. Yes.
24 119 Q. And I think as a result of Mr. Myers' article, your then
25 party leader, David Trimble, wrote a letter to Bertie
26 Ahern, who was Taoiseach at the time, raising issues about
27 what was contained in Mr. Myers' article. Were you aware
28 of that, Mr. Donaldson?
29 A. Only in general terms. I have never seen the letter.
30 120 Q. Did you discuss it with Mr. Trimble at the time before he
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 31
1 sent it?
2 A. No.
3 121 Q. OK. You mentioned also that you had, I suppose your
4 interest had been aroused by Toby Harnden's book again,
5 which referred to the allegations of collusion. Do you
6 regard Toby Harnden's book as an accurate account of the
7 Breen and Buchanan killings?
8 A. I would say that I become aware of subsequently, because of
9 my interest in the case and following the proceedings of
10 this Tribunal, of additional information that wasn't
11 contained in the Toby Harnden book. I think, in broad
12 terms, he was well-informed.
13 122 Q. It was an extremely serious allegation and piece of
14 information, if correct, that a Garda colluded in the
15 killing of two RUC officers?
16 A. As I have stated already.
17 123 Q. It would be extraordinarily significant, wouldn't that be
18 so, Mr. Donaldson?
19 A. It would be very significant.
20 124 Q. And Mr. Harnden's book was very powerful, I have to suggest
21 to you, for two particular reasons: First of all, he said
22 in respect of the murders of Chief Superintendent Breen and
23 Superintendent Buchanan, that there was technical
24 information available of a telephone call being made from
25 Dundalk Garda Station to the IRA. Would you agree with me
26 that that is very powerful and probative information?
27 A. Indeed I referred to it in my speech.
28 125 Q. Yes. And it suggests, on its face, Garda collusion, isn't
29 that so?
30 A. It would support the proposition.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 32
1 126 Q. Yes. Also, in his book, Mr. Harnden stated that a retired
2 Detective Inspector of An Garda Siochana had confirmed to
3 him that a member of An Garda Siochana was a mole and had
4 tipped off the IRA. Similarly, that is very powerful and
5 probative information, isn't that so?
6 A. Indeed, yes.
7 127 Q. Are you aware that it is now apparent that both of those
8 allegedly significant pieces of information are false?
9 A. No.
10 128 Q. In fairness to you, you may not be aware of it because
11 of -- it's come out, I suggest, in this Tribunal. First of
12 all, this Tribunal, and indeed the Camon-Kirwan report
13 conducted by An Garda Siochana, sought information from the
14 Royal Ulster Constabulary, in 2000, as to whether there was
15 any technical information of a call from Dundalk Garda
16 Station to the Provisional IRA. The Royal Ulster
17 Constabulary have replied and stated there is no such
18 evidence.
19 Secondly, the Garda Siochana Detective Inspector, who gave
20 an interview to Mr. Harnden, has denied that what
21 Mr. Harnden quoted him as stating is correct. Does that
22 cause you any concern, Mr. Donaldson, in respect of the
23 accuracy of Toby Harnden's book?
24 A. Well, the purpose of this inquiry is to get the facts, and
25 the facts will emerge, I have no doubt, as time goes on,
26 and there are a number of interesting things that I have
27 read about the inquiry, about intelligence, information
28 that was available and wasn't passed on and so on, so there
29 are things, actually, that have emerged in the Tribunal
30 that weren't in Toby Harnden's book that support the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 33
1 contention that there was collusion.
2 129 Q. You seem to be anxious, Mr. Donaldson, and correct me if I
3 am unfair about this, you seem to be anxious to be able to
4 establish that there was collusion?
5 A. I am anxious to establish the truth.
6 130 Q. OK. But would you agree with me that if it's in the public
7 interest that collusion be established, similarly it's in
8 the public interest if there was no collusion?
9 A. Absolutely.
10 131 Q. That that be established?
11 A. Indeed so, and hence my call for an independent public
12 inquiry to consider the facts and consider the evidence and
13 come to a conclusion on this.
14 132 Q. Chairman, I am conscious --
15
16 CHAIRMAN: I don't want to interrupt your flow because it's
17 important, but it is just one o'clock and I think it would
18 be appropriate, if it doesn't inconvenience you, if we
19 adjourn for lunch. It may well be -- it's now a little bit
20 after one, I would suggest ten past two would be a
21 sufficient time to resume. Thank you.
22
23 THE TRIBUNAL THEN ADJOURNED FOR LUNCH.
24 25
26
27
28
29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 34
1 THE TRIBUNAL CONTINUED AFTER LUNCH AS FOLLOWS:
2
3 CONTINUATION OF CROSS-EXAMINATION OF MR. JEFFREY DONALDSON
4 BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN AS FOLLOWS:
5
6 133 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Good afternoon, Mr. Donaldson.
7 Mr. Donaldson, before lunch, we were talking about Toby
8 Harnden's book, Bandit Country. You obviously read the
9 book, isn't that correct?
10 A. That's correct.
11 134 Q. I presume that at the time you read it, you believed it was
12 an accurate book, is that so?
13 A. Insofar as the information that was covered in the book was
14 concerned, it was not, obviously, a full account, because
15 certain elements of information were left out of the book.
16 135 Q. What you read, you believed to be accurate?
17 A. I had no reason not to at the time.
18 136 Q. And subsequently, you met Mr. Harnden, is that so?
19 A. That is correct.
20 137 Q. Can I ask you, did you meet Mr. Harnden before or after you
21 met Mr. Fulton?
22 A. Oh, before.
23 138 Q. What did you discuss with Mr. Harnden?
24 A. His book, some of the incidents that he had covered in his
25 book. In fairness, he did not reveal, nor would I have
26 expected him to reveal, as a journalist, the sources for
27 the information he had received, but we talked in some
28 detail about a number of those incidents.
29 139 Q. Did you discuss the murders of Chief Superintendent Breen
30 and Superintendent Buchanan?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 35
1 A. I did.
2 140 Q. What did he say to you about them?
3 A. He reiterated what he had put in his book, including the
4 allegation that there may have been collusion.
5 141 Q. Did he mention the name of a member of An Garda Siochana to
6 you?
7 A. Not the specific name.
8 142 Q. Did he identify a member of An Garda Siochana in any way to
9 you?
10 A. He had reason to believe that there was a member of the
11 Garda inside, or based at Dundalk police station, who may
12 have passed information to the IRA in connection with the
13 murders.
14 143 Q. But he didn't name any particular guard?
15 A. No.
16 144 Q. And am I take to it that you didn't ask him?
17 A. That is correct.
18 145 Q. And you didn't ask him, out of what you thought was a
19 respect for journalistic privilege, is that correct?
20 A. Indeed.
21 146 Q. After Mr. Fulton identified Mr. Corrigan to you, did you
22 revert to Mr. Harnden to inquire whether that name was the
23 one he had?
24 A. No.
25 147 Q. Why didn't you do that?
26 A. Again, because I did not want to compromise Mr. Harnden and
27 his sources, and Mr. Fulton had come to me voluntarily with
28 this information and I saw no reason why I should put this
29 to Mr. Harnden; he had published what he had published in
30 his book. I could not have repeated what Mr. Harnden had
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 36
1 said to me, in any event, because of journalistic
2 privilege, so I did not see the value in pursuing that.
3 148 Q. Do you recall the two issues which I say are completely
4 misleading in Mr. Harnden's book that I referred you to
5 before lunch?
6 A. Yes. One was the watch towers and, forgive me --
7 149 Q. Sorry, the first was, Mr. Harnden said in the book there is
8 technical information that a phone call came from the Garda
9 station to the IRA?
10 A. That's correct.
11 150 Q. And secondly, you said a detective inspector confirmed that
12 the leak came from the Gardaí. The fact that they are
13 false, does that cause you to reassess the accuracy of
14 Mr. Harnden's book?
15 A. No, it doesn't. I am not convinced that they are false. I
16 believe that the army at the time had the technology to be
17 able to monitor this type of call remotely, and I am not
18 convinced that what we are being told represents the full
19 substance of all the knowledge about the background to
20 this. So I'm not convinced that this is false.
21 151 Q. You are aware that the Chairman is receiving cooperation
22 from the British Army in respect of this Inquiry, are you,
23 Mr. Donaldson?
24 A. I am aware that there was a statement provided by -- or
25 from -- emanating from the army. But I also know, as a
26 member of the Defence Committee in the House of Commons,
27 that the army does not always reveal its modus operandi in
28 any circumstances, because to do so would compromise the
29 manner in which it gathers intelligence. There are many
30 occasions on which this has happened and on which the army
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 37
1 security services, the police, have denied information
2 because it may potentially compromise the gathering of that
3 information, and indeed I and other parliamentarians, not
4 least the -- my former party leader, now Lord Trimble, have
5 argued in the House of Commons consistently that wire-tap
6 evidence should be admissible in cases, but this has been
7 resisted by the security forces because it would compromise
8 their modus operandi. So I accept what you say as the
9 statements that have been given to the Tribunal.
10 Personally, with my own knowledge of the security in
11 Northern Ireland, and more widely through my involvement
12 with the Defence Committee, I am not convinced.
13 152 Q. Are you aware of any technical information that exists
14 supporting a claim that a call was made from Dundalk Garda
15 Station to an IRA person on the 20th of March, 1989?
16 A. It has been suggested to me in the past that the technical
17 expertise existed to be able to do this. But has that
18 information been passed to me? No, I wouldn't expect that
19 it would be.
20 153 Q. So the answer to my question is no?
21 A. No, I wouldn't expect that it would be.
22 154 Q. If those two factors, which I say are false, in Toby
23 Harnden's book are incorrect, that must cast doubt on the
24 veracity of his book, wouldn't that be so?
25 A. No.
26 155 Q. Why not?
27 A. Because if two facts are correct, it doesn't invalidate
28 other facts. It is a matter for this Tribunal to establish
29 how many of those elements of the information contained
30 within the book are accurate. I read the book. It gave me
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 38
1 cause for concern. I inquired further into the issues that
2 were raised in the book, to the point where I was satisfied
3 that in the case of the murders of Harry Breen and Bob
4 Buchanan, and in the cases of Lord and Lady Gibson,
5 independent public inquiries would be justified, and I
6 pursued that at a political level.
7 156 Q. You accepted before lunch, Mr. Donaldson, that those two
8 factors were of significant probative value in terms of
9 suggesting there was collusion, do you recall admitting
10 that before lunch?
11 A. I said that they were elements of the case but not the only
12 elements.
13 157 Q. I'm not suggesting, but they are of significant probative
14 value, isn't that so?
15 A. And it is why this Tribunal properly should examine those
16 facts, but I have never relied on either of those facts in
17 my contention that there ought to be an inquiry. I have
18 relied on a range of factors.
19 158 Q. But you have relied on Toby Harnden's book?
20 A. Partly.
21 159 Q. And --
22 A. But not exclusively, and I would not have called for a
23 public inquiry on the basis of the information in the book
24 alone. If I had, I would have gone straight to the House
25 of Commons, after reading the book, and made an issue of
26 this. Far from doing that, I made my own inquiries to try,
27 as best I could, to corroborate the information in the
28 book. I did not seek out Kevin Fulton. He came to me with
29 the information. I then sought to establish whether he was
30 who he said he was. And on foot of all of that, I made a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 39
1 judgement, as a public representative, that I should make a
2 call for an inquiry. That was not based alone on the
3 evidence or information in Toby Harnden's book. In fact,
4 the book may have been a catalyst, but it was by no means
5 the determining factor. For me, a far greater factor was
6 the information given to me by Kevin Fulton which was not
7 related directly to Toby Harnden's book.
8 160 Q. We'll come and talk about Mr. Fulton presently. I just
9 want to talk to you about your reliance on Mr. Harnden,
10 Mr. Donaldson. And I suggest to you it's astonishing that
11 you would not be concerned, if it is the case that the
12 detective inspector quoted in Mr. Harnden's book says that
13 the quote is completely wrong, that must be an issue of
14 concern to you if you rely upon the accuracy of the book?
15 A. I do not rely exclusively --
16 161 Q. I know you don't --
17 A. -- on the accuracy of the book, and if there are elements
18 of the book that have been challenged, then so be it, that
19 is the purpose of this Tribunal, to weigh up all of the
20 facts, all of the information, all of the evidence that is
21 brought before it. I am not a tribunal; I am a public
22 representative. I have to make judgements based on the
23 information that is available to me. I made the
24 judgement-call that I did, not based solely on what was in
25 Toby Harnden's book, though the book was influential in
26 causing me to inquire further into the matters raised in
27 the book, but I doubt if I would have made the call for an
28 inquiry based on the book alone, and, in fact, I didn't.
29 In fact, I took steps to try and establish the further
30 information about the issues raised in the book.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 40
1 162 Q. I am not suggesting that you called for the inquiry based
2 exclusively on the book alone. However, I take from your
3 answer then, Mr. Donaldson, that you wouldn't be concerned
4 if the detective inspector of Special Branch quoted in the
5 book was completely misquoted, I take from your answer you
6 are not concerned about that?
7 A. Well, Mr. Harnden will have to answer for what he has put
8 in the book. That is not my responsibility. Of course, if
9 someone is misquoted, then they have the right to challenge
10 that. The detective inspector has had that right and has
11 taken it. Frankly, that is not a matter for me.
12 163 Q. It doesn't concern you --
13 A. No.
14 164 Q. -- that's what I have established. Okay. And I have to
15 suggest to you, it is not surprising that you wouldn't be
16 concerned about such a fundamental error in Mr. Harnden's
17 book, and I have to suggest to you, Mr. Donaldson, and I
18 suggest this with respect, that it indicates a prejudice on
19 your part to establish collusion between An Garda Siochana
20 and the RUC, as opposed to seeking an independent
21 assessment as to whether there is, or not, collusion?
22 A. Well, if you examine all of my public statements on this, I
23 have, at all times, stated that the evidence that is
24 available should be submitted to an independent public
25 inquiry. I do not draw my own conclusions on this. If
26 there is an element to Mr. Harnden's book that proves to be
27 inaccurate, so be it, that is the case, but that does not
28 diminish my concern that there is evidence, substantive
29 evidence, that points to the potential of collusion in this
30 case, and it is for that reason that I pursue the matter
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 41
1 further. Just because one element falls away, does not
2 mean that the whole house comes crashing down. In my view,
3 that is -- frankly, the detective inspector's statement in
4 the book would not have been any significant -- it wouldn't
5 even have rated one percent of bringing me to the
6 conclusion that that were questions to be answered. This
7 was not, and I cannot emphasise this enough, this was not
8 in any sense a significant factor in bringing me to the
9 point, in my consideration of the evidence, that there
10 should be an independent inquiry. Therefore, when I say I
11 am not concerned, if I was concerned for every modicum of
12 information that I considered, then, you know, I wouldn't
13 be sitting in front of this Tribunal today. I pursued this
14 because I believed that there was evidence that ought to be
15 examined in detail by an inquiry, and conclusions reached.
16 I have an open mind in this. And I want to see the facts
17 examined, and the purpose of examining them is to prove
18 whether they are credible or not. If some are not
19 credible, then others, perhaps, will prove to be credible.
20 165 Q. Mr. Donaldson, if you have an open mind in this, as you
21 have just said, then why did you name my client, Owen
22 Corrigan, as being effectively an IRA murderer?
23 A. I have never called retired Detective Sergeant Corrigan a
24 murderer. I have never stated that he was guilty of
25 murder. I have stated that I was given evidence that he
26 may have been guilty of collusion, and that that evidence
27 should be examined. Indeed, when I spoke in the House of
28 Commons on the second occasion, I referred to the
29 allegations that were made and said that these should be
30 subjected to an independent public inquiry so that the
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 42
1 truth can be established. I think that's a pretty good
2 definition of an open mind.
3 166 Q. If somebody colludes in a murder, are they not
4 intrinsically involved in that murder?
5 A. That is a matter for those who pursue prosecutions. I am
6 interested in the truth. I have never used the words that
7 you have sought to put in my mouth. I have never described
8 your client as a murderer. I have simply said that I have
9 been given evidence, information that he was involved in
10 collusion with the Provisional IRA, and I called for a
11 public inquiry to establish the facts.
12 167 Q. And I have to suggest to you, Mr. Donaldson, that the
13 effect and purpose and intention of your statement was to
14 point the finger at Owen Corrigan and say, he is a guard
15 who tipped off the IRA about Breen and Buchanan and thereby
16 assisted in their murder, isn't that the reality of what
17 you said in the House of Commons?
18 A. The reality of what I said in the House of Commons was that
19 I had been given information that included the role of
20 Detective Sergeant Owen Corrigan in providing information
21 to the IRA around the circumstances of the murders of Harry
22 Breen and Bob Buchanan. I made a judgement that that
23 information should be put in the public domain in pursuit
24 of my call for an independent public inquiry. I do not
25 resile from having made that judgement. It is for others
26 to determine the veracity of that information and it is for
27 others to determine whether this man is guilty, or
28 potentially guilty, of a criminal offence, and, if he is,
29 then others will decide whether there is to be prosecution.
30 That is not my role. My role, as a public representative,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 43
1 is to ensure that, where there are allegations of this
2 nature, there is an examination of the facts.
3 168 Q. I just want to correct you on one thing, Mr. Donaldson. My
4 client is not on trial. It is not the function of this
5 Tribunal to determine whether or not he is guilty or not
6 guilty.
7 A. Indeed. That is why I said it was for others, and I was
8 not referring to this Tribunal. I said the role of this
9 Tribunal was to seek to establish the facts. If there are
10 facts that emerge that suggest that anyone is guilty of a
11 criminal offence, then it is for others to decide whether
12 or not to prosecute.
13 169 Q. Can I now ask you about Kevin Fulton. You met him, I
14 think, for the first time, in late 1999 or early 2000,
15 isn't that so?
16 A. That's correct.
17 170 Q. And that was organised by Mr. Fraser, who brought him
18 along?
19 A. Yes.
20 171 Q. And the meeting was sought by Mr. Fraser?
21 A. I wasn't party to the original conversation between
22 Mr. Fraser and Mr. Fulton. I don't know whether Mr. Fulton
23 approached Mr. Fraser and asked him to set up the meeting,
24 but it was Mr. Fraser who approached me and asked if I
25 would meet Mr. Fulton.
26 172 Q. Had you heard of Mr. Fulton before this meeting?
27 A. I cannot recollect, Chairman, for certain, if I had heard
28 the name. Certainly, this was the first time I had ever
29 met the man. I had had no previous involvement whatsoever
30 with him in any way.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 44
1 173 Q. And you say, at that meeting he named my client, Owen
2 Corrigan?
3 A. Yes.
4 174 Q. What did he say about him?
5 A. He said that there was a member of the Garda who had been
6 involved in passing information to the Provisional IRA, and
7 he went on to name that individual.
8 175 Q. Did he indicate that that information had been passed by
9 way of a tip-off about an impending meeting?
10 A. He did not go into the detail of the alleged collusion.
11 That happened at the subsequent meeting.
12 176 Q. How long did your meeting with him last?
13 A. Probably half an hour to an hour.
14 177 Q. Who was at the meeting with yourself, Mr. Fulton and
15 Mr. Fraser?
16 A. No one else was present.
17 178 Q. Did you take notes of the meeting?
18 A. I did.
19 179 Q. Could you produce those notes to the Chairman?
20 A. No.
21 180 Q. Why not?
22 A. I no longer have them.
23 181 Q. Do you not have a mechanism in your office whereby you
24 store notes in respect of meetings with important people?
25 A. The notes would have been stored at my office in
26 Westminster, and those records are only kept for six years.
27 182 Q. Well, surely those notes, if they were taken in early 2000,
28 would be around in early 2006, at a time after this
29 Tribunal was inquired; surely you would have recognised the
30 importance of those notes, Mr. Donaldson?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 45
1 A. I was only approached to give evidence to the Tribunal last
2 year. At no stage up to that point was I asked to give
3 evidence, so I would have had no reason to retain the
4 notes.
5 183 Q. After you received this information from Mr. Fulton, did
6 you report it to the Royal Ulster Constabulary?
7 A. After my first meeting with Mr. Fulton, I spoke to a senior
8 member of the security forces about the information I had
9 been given by Mr. Fulton.
10 184 Q. When was your second meeting with Mr. Fulton?
11 A. Probably two to three weeks after the first one. Again, I
12 don't have the date.
13 185 Q. Where was that meeting?
14 A. Again, at the Houses of Parliament in London.
15 186 Q. And again who attended that meeting?
16 A. Again, William Fraser, I believe, but certainly myself and
17 Kevin Fulton. I can't be sure, Chairman, whether
18 Mr. Fraser was present at the second meeting.
19 187 Q. Do you recall whether Mr. Fraser took notes at these
20 meetings?
21 A. I can't. I don't believe he did.
22 188 Q. At the time you spoke to Kevin Fulton, were you aware that
23 he had been involved in many terrorist offences carried out
24 by the IRA?
25 A. Not before I met him, no. When I met him, our discussions
26 focused on the issues that we have discussed and that I
27 raised in my speech about the activities of south Armagh
28 PIRA. In subsequent meetings, after the first two meetings
29 that I had, we discussed other cases as well, involving not
30 only south Armagh PIRA, but also south Down PIRA.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 46
1 Mr. Fulton made clear that his task as an agent was to
2 infiltrate both units.
3 189 Q. What did he say to you at the second meeting?
4 A. He elaborated on the detail he had provided at the first
5 meeting and explained that on the day in which Harry Breen
6 and Bob Buchanan were murdered, Patrick Joseph 'Mooch'
7 Blair, in conversation with Mr. Fulton, had revealed that
8 the Provisional IRA unit who had murdered the two men had
9 been given a tip-off, and the word "tip-off" was used by
10 someone in Dundalk Garda Station who had provided the
11 information about the movements of Chief Superintendent
12 Breen and Superintendent Buchanan.
13 190 Q. So, at the second meeting, he told you that -- will you
14 give me that again? He told you that he was aware, on the
15 day of the murders, that there had been a tip-off to the
16 IRA?
17 A. I believe that was the case. And he also told me about a
18 subsequent meeting that occurred in the car park of a
19 public house in the County Louth area in which Detective
20 Sergeant Owen Corrigan met with Patrick Joseph 'Mooch'
21 Blair in a vehicle driven by Kevin Fulton and it was
22 evident from the discussion that took place in that vehicle
23 that Owen Corrigan was passing information to the
24 Provisional IRA.
25 191 Q. Do you have a copy of your statement in front of you,
26 Mr. Donaldson?
27 A. My statement to the Tribunal?
28 192 Q. To the Tribunal.
29 A. Yes.
30 193 Q. Could I ask you to go to the last signature page?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 47
1 A. Yes.
2 194 Q. Second paragraph, third line down, you start a description
3 of the second meeting and you state: "On the second
4 meeting, we went over what he had previously told me again.
5 I wanted to be clear about what I was being told. He
6 mentioned 'Mooch' Blair to me but not in any great detail.
7 He did not mention Scappaticci. He told me that he had
8 been in the company of 'Mooch' Blair. He had driven Blair
9 to a pub car park where Blair met Owen Corrigan. He told
10 me that he had, at the time, provided the information about
11 Owen Corrigan meeting Blair to his handlers. I do not
12 recall discussing any particular agency with which he was
13 involved."
14 Where in that statement do you refer to the first part of
15 the second meeting that you just told me about?
16 A. On the third page, the final paragraph: "In the course of
17 the first meeting, I was told by Kevin Fulton that he had
18 knowledge about the murders of Chief Superintendent Breen
19 and Superintendent Buchanan. He did not say, and I did not
20 ask him, whether he was involved in the murders. He told
21 me that a then-Garda Detective Sergeant in Dundalk Garda
22 Station had passed information to the IRA and that the
23 information had been helpful to the IRA in setting up the
24 ambush. He told me that the Detective Sergeant in question
25 was called Owen Corrigan and that he now owned a pub in
26 Drogheda. The implication made was that Owen Corrigan's
27 interest in the pub had been funded from improper
28 activities."
29 195 Q. That's not the answer to the question I asked you,
30 Mr. Donaldson. You, in your description of the second
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 48
1 meeting, stated that Mr. Fulton told you that, on the day
2 of the murders, he had got evidence from 'Mooch' Blair that
3 there had been a tip-off?
4 A. Yes.
5 196 Q. Where is that stated?
6 A. It sits in the third page in the final paragraph.
7 197 Q. Where is 'Mooch' Blair mentioned?
8 A. Well, I didn't mention it in the statement, but I am
9 elaborating on the statement, which is the purpose of me
10 being here today.
11 198 Q. This statement was signed on the 30th of November last?
12 A. Yes.
13 199 Q. And it's a very remarkable fact that you didn't include
14 that, because that statement you made there about the first
15 part of your meeting with Fulton where he says he got
16 information from 'Mooch' Blair that there was a tip-off
17 from Owen Corrigan, that's not in your statement but it is
18 in Mr. Fulton's statement?
19 A. Chairman, in fairness, you will note on the first page that
20 these are notes in relation to Jeffrey Donaldson. These
21 are notes taken by counsel for the Inquiry when they
22 interviewed me about these matters, notes that I was asked
23 to check, and did, and I signed. I am absolutely clear
24 that when I spoke to counsel for the Inquiry, I went into
25 considerable detail about the first and the second
26 meetings. I told counsel for the Inquiry that on the first
27 meeting, Mr. Fulton had provided me with information naming
28 Owen Corrigan, and at the second meeting he elaborated on
29 that and went into more detail.
30 200 Q. Before you --
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 49
1 A. So this is not -- sorry, this is not my statement, this is
2 not a record of a statement that I have given. It is notes
3 in relation to an interview that I gave to the counsel for
4 the Inquiry. If you want a detailed statement, I will
5 gladly provide you with a detailed statement setting out in
6 detail what Mr. Fulton told me on the first and second
7 meetings. But I am absolutely clear about this:
8 Mr. Fulton told me that on, I believe, the afternoon of the
9 murder of the two policemen, he was told by Patrick Joseph
10 Blair that they had received information from a source
11 within Dundalk Garda Station.
12 201 Q. That's not what he says in his statement. In his statement
13 -- have you seen Mr. Fulton's statement, Mr. Donaldson?
14 A. To the Tribunal, no.
15 202 Q. What Mr. Fulton says in his statement is that on the day of
16 the murders, he was in 'Mooch' Blair's house, and he says a
17 phone call came in from Mickey Collins. Did he ever
18 mention that name to you?
19 A. Yes, I know who Mickey Collins is.
20 203 Q. I didn't ask whether you know. Did he mention that name to
21 you?
22 A. Not in relation to Breen and Buchanan, no.
23 204 Q. Okay. And so --
24 A. But he would have talked about Mickey Collins on a number
25 of occasions subsequently.
26 205 Q. But what you have said is different to what he has stated
27 in his statement. But that is your signature at the bottom
28 of this statement, Mr. Donaldson?
29 A. It is, yes.
30 206 Q. And presumably, before you signed your signature, you read
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 50
1 what you were signing up to?
2 A. Yes.
3 207 Q. And why didn't you include the first aspect of the second
4 meeting to which we have been discussing?
5 A. Because I expected to have the opportunity to give that
6 information here today. If I had been asked to provide a
7 full statement, I would have written the full statement
8 myself. I would be happy to do that. There is, Chairman,
9 absolutely no doubt in my mind what I am saying, and it is
10 consistent with what I have told counsel to the Tribunal
11 and I am saying here today. I have not seen Kevin Fulton's
12 statement to the Tribunal, the full statement that he has
13 given, but I am aware of the position that he takes. The
14 fact that he did not refer to Mickey Collins and a
15 telephone call, does not negate what he told me, which is
16 that he was told by Patrick Joseph Blair that they had
17 received information from a source in Dundalk Garda
18 Station. He then went on to tell me who that source was.
19 208 Q. Now, the statement he made to you, or the information he
20 gave you about the meeting between 'Mooch' Blair and my
21 client in the car park, is very significant evidence, isn't
22 it?
23 A. It is.
24 209 Q. And it's part of the reason why you went public on my
25 client, I suggest?
26 A. Yes.
27 210 Q. And did he give you any time-line indication as to when
28 this meeting took place?
29 A. I believe it was after the murders had occurred.
30 211 Q. I have had the opportunity of seeing Mr. Fulton's
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 51
1 statement, Mr. Donaldson, and I'll just tell you what he
2 says in the statement and see if it correlates with what he
3 said to you. He said that the meeting in the car park took
4 place a few weeks before the first abduction of Tom Oliver.
5 You are aware who Tom Oliver --
6 A. A farmer from County Louth.
7 212 Q. And he says the meeting took place in the car park a few
8 weeks before the first abduction of Tom Oliver, and he says
9 the first abduction of Tom Oliver took place a few months
10 after Mr. Oliver's murder. Mr. Oliver was murdered in July
11 1991 -- sorry, July 1991, so I think it's fair to say that
12 the car-park conversation took place at some stage in the
13 first half of 1991. Would that equate with what you were
14 told?
15 A. It -- I don't think Mr. Fulton was specific. But it would
16 equate with the time lines, yes, because he never sought to
17 suggest the meeting took place before the murders of Harry
18 Breen and Bob Buchanan.
19 213 Q. No, and I think we can tie it down to certainly the first
20 six months of 1991. And his evidence, or his statement is
21 so probative because he suggests that 'Mooch' Blair was
22 driven by him to the car park of Fintan Callan's Céilí
23 House. 'Mooch' Blair got out of the car, went into the
24 Céilí House, returned with Owen Corrigan, my client, and in
25 the car, whilst Kevin Fulton was in the car, the two of
26 them discussed Tom Oliver, and the evidence that Mr. Fulton
27 allegedly will give, is that my client, Mr. Corrigan, told
28 'Mooch' Blair that Tom Oliver had been informing on
29 individuals to the Garda Siochana, a crucial piece of --
30 from my client's point of view, very damaging evidence.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 52
1 The only thing I have to point out to you, Mr. Donaldson,
2 is that it's clearly a lie, and let me tell you why it's
3 clearly a lie. Owen Corrigan stopped working for An Garda
4 Siochana in December 1989. He went out on sick leave in
5 December 1989, and he retired from the Garda Siochana two
6 years after that. He had nothing to do with An Garda
7 Siochana from December 1989 onwards on a day-to-day basis.
8 Does that cause you any concern about the reliability of
9 Mr. Fulton?
10 A. No, because it is not necessarily the case that one has to
11 be working for an organisation to be -- to have access to
12 information. I don't know all of the detail of the
13 background to the murder of Tom Oliver, and I don't know
14 the period over which he had been providing information to
15 the Garda Siochana. Therefore, I can't make a judgement as
16 to whether Detective Sergeant Corrigan, in the course of
17 his work before he retired, would have had access to
18 information of that nature and whether he would have had
19 access to it on a continuing basis thereafter. You know,
20 the idea that when someone leaves an organisation, all
21 contact with that organisation ceases, I am sure if an
22 individual who had been involved for so many years in the
23 Forces and if, as alleged, was involved in collusion,
24 needed to have access to information, they were perfectly
25 capable of getting it, I am sure, without having to remain
26 within the organisation.
27 214 Q. So it causes you no concern?
28 A. Well, insofar as it relates to the murder of Harry Breen
29 and Bob Buchanan, Mr. Fulton has never suggested that that
30 meeting was connected to those two murders.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 53
1 215 Q. I agree with you on that.
2 A. He imparted that information to me as further evidence of
3 Owen Corrigan's connections to the Provisional IRA, of the
4 allegation that he was colluding with the Provisional IRA.
5 On the central issue of Owen Corrigan allegedly having
6 passed information to the Provisional IRA on the day of the
7 murder of the two police officers, I believe that that was,
8 for me, the key element in what Kevin Fulton had told me.
9 216 Q. Although what Mr. Fulton will say in respect of that matter
10 is that he implied that it must have been Owen Corrigan
11 that gave information, because Owen Corrigan's name wasn't
12 mentioned, according to Mr. Fulton's statement, on the day
13 of the murder of the two officers. Kevin Fulton said in
14 his statement that he assumed that the guard being referred
15 to in Dundalk was Owen Corrigan. That is why,
16 Mr. Donaldson, this meeting in the car park is so
17 important, because the Chairman has been listening to
18 evidence for over 60 days, I think, now; there has been no
19 evidence of collusion between the IRA and Owen Corrigan
20 during those 60 days. The only evidence which may
21 materialise when Mr. Fulton gives evidence, is this
22 meeting, and that's why it is so crucial. Do you
23 appreciate, from my client's point of view, the importance
24 of this meeting in the car park?
25 A. Indeed.
26 217 Q. And am I to take it from you that you have not even the
27 slightest suggestion of concern arising from the fact that
28 now my client was clearly out on sick leave for a
29 year-and-a-half before this meeting took place?
30 A. As I have said, that does not convince me that your
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 54
1 client --
2 218 Q. I am not asking you to be convinced. I am asking you, just
3 leave aside partiality, and just from your point of view,
4 looking at an assembly of evidence, does it cause you some
5 concern about the reliability of that part of Kevin
6 Fulton's account?
7 A. I think in relation to the information that has been given
8 to me by Kevin Fulton on the specific question of the
9 meeting in the car park, if it is the case that your client
10 did not have access to this information that is alleged he
11 passed, then that is a matter that needs to be probed. So
12 far, I remain convinced that the information given to me by
13 Kevin Fulton is true.
14 219 Q. Okay. Leaving aside what my client will say and the
15 evidence in respect of him being out on sick leave since
16 December of 1989. After you spoke to Kevin Fulton, did you
17 contact anyone in the Royal Ulster Constabulary to assess
18 his veracity or reliability?
19 A. I spoke to a senior member of the security forces.
20 220 Q. That's not a member of the RUC, is that correct --
21 A. I am not going to confirm or deny that.
22 221 Q. I don't know if you have in front of you, Mr. Donaldson, a
23 thing we call the cipher, which has a list of members of
24 the Royal Ulster Constabulary, and they are identifiable by
25 way of number. Obviously, I don't want to name the
26 individuals, I don't know who they are, but I just want you
27 to have a look at these and see if you are aware of them.
28 Could you look at Witness Number 60 on the list there,
29 please, Mr. Donaldson?
30 A. Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 55
1 222 Q. Are you aware of that gentleman?
2 A. Yes.
3 223 Q. He served in CID, and, in 1988, he served as a Detective
4 Inspector in Gough Barracks, and CID dealt with crime and
5 had their own intelligence-gathering systems, isn't that
6 correct, sir?
7 A. Yes.
8 224 Q. Would you regard that gentleman as a man of integrity?
9 A. I don't know him personally. I know of him because he once
10 headed up a major investigation involving the Provisional
11 IRA.
12 225 Q. From what you know of him in his professional capacity,
13 would you regard him as a man of competence and good
14 judgement?
15 A. I can only judge him based on the outcome of the
16 investigation into a very serious incident involving the
17 Provisional IRA, and the fact that no one was convicted
18 left me, I think, disappointed.
19 226 Q. Am I to take it from that that you don't regard him as a
20 man of competence?
21 A. I am simply saying that he may well be a man of competence.
22 I don't know the man well enough to make a judgement. I
23 can only give you an opinion based on what I know in the
24 public domain. And what is in the public domain in
25 relation to the major inquiry which he headed up, resulted
26 in no prosecutions and left me feeling disappointed.
27 227 Q. He gave evidence to the Chairman on Day 40 that he believed
28 Kevin Fulton was "an intelligence nuisance". Does that
29 cause you any concern about the source you relied upon?
30 A. No more than someone else describing him as a Walter Mitty.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 56
1 228 Q. We'll come on to that. So it doesn't cause you concern?
2 A. No.
3 229 Q. Okay. Could you have a look at Witness Number 62?
4 A. Yes.
5 230 Q. Are you aware of that gentleman?
6 A. Yes.
7 231 Q. Is he a gentleman who you'd regard as being competent?
8 A. Again, I wouldn't have a professional knowledge of him. I
9 know the name, but I don't believe I have encountered him
10 at a professional level.
11 232 Q. Is he a person who you believe to have sound judgement, or
12 can you comment upon that?
13 A. I can't comment on that.
14 233 Q. Okay. He gave evidence to the Chairman on Day 51, and his
15 evidence was that Kevin Fulton was "A compulsive liar, a
16 fantasist, a con man of the highest order and an
17 intelligence nuisance." Does that cause you any concern
18 about the reliability of the witness you relied on?
19 A. That's the opinion of the individual. I can only go on the
20 basis of my experience, and I can tell you that in a number
21 of cases in which Kevin Fulton has given me information, I
22 have been able to verify and establish that that
23 information was accurate.
24 234 Q. So it doesn't cause you concern?
25 A. I have to make my own judgements on these things, as do
26 these individuals. My judgement, in respect of the limited
27 involvement I have had with Kevin Fulton, brings me to a
28 different conclusion.
29 235 Q. Witness 64, please, Mr. Donaldson.
30 A. Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 57
1 236 Q. Are you aware of that gentleman?
2 A. Yes.
3 237 Q. Is he a gentleman who you'd regard as competent?
4 A. I don't know him professionally.
5 238 Q. How do you know these individuals, then, if you are aware
6 of them but you say you don't know them professionally?
7 A. In the case of two of them, I have never met them but would
8 be aware of them through my previous involvement on the
9 Policing Board, for example, I was a member, and through my
10 work as a member of Parliament. I have always taken an
11 interest in policing and security matters, but I haven't
12 met these individuals, and I am always reluctant to pass
13 judgement on the credibility of someone without having met
14 them personally.
15 239 Q. Could you think of any reason why these three gentlemen
16 would come down to this Tribunal and give evidence that was
17 false?
18 A. I wouldn't expect that they would do that.
19 240 Q. Witness 64 said that he served as a Detective Inspector in
20 charge of Special Branch, Newry, from 1988 to '94. He was
21 in charge of the team that handled Fulton. His evidence to
22 the Chairman was that "Fulton never said anything about
23 Owen Corrigan. He never said anything about being 'Mooch'
24 Blair's driver. His information was false and misleading
25 on other matters." And I asked him, when I was asking him
26 could he give us an example of Kevin Fulton's
27 unreliability, and this is what he said: He said,
28 "Well, there was probably a number I could give, but one
29 particularly interesting one was, we were given
30 intelligence about an IRA Active Service Unit planning to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 58
1 travel to Great Britain to carry out a series of attacks
2 there, and Mr. Fulton told us that he had been asked to
3 prepare weapons hides in Great Britain to facilitate the
4 logistics of that unit travelling to Great Britain. Police
5 operations were put in place in England and Scotland and
6 quite considerable police time, effort, resources went into
7 carrying out preparatory work to try and catch the alleged
8 Active Service Unit, only for Mr. Fulton to subsequently
9 state that it was something he had made up. And as you can
10 appreciate, it had caused us considerable embarrassment
11 because the intelligence had been relayed across to Great
12 Britain."
13 Does that cause you concern about the reliability of the
14 witness you relied upon before making your statement in the
15 House of Commons?
16 A. Again, I have to make my own judgements, and I made those
17 judgements based on what I was told and the inquiries that
18 I made subsequently.
19 241 Q. Does it cause you concern?
20 A. Well, of course it's a matter of concern where a senior
21 police officer, whether serving or retired, calls into
22 question the credibility of an individual. But it does beg
23 the question, if Mr. Fulton was of no benefit or of no use
24 to the security forces, why they persevered for so long,
25 why they paid him the money that they did, why they
26 continued to keep him in their employ as an agent, why they
27 asked him in the first place to be infiltrated into the
28 Provisional IRA, why they took him from the British Army
29 and placed him in that position? It does beg the question
30 as to the judgement of those people who took those
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 59
1 decisions and who maintained him in the role that he was
2 maintained, if they felt that he was of no benefit to them
3 whatsoever.
4 242 Q. Aren't you aware that Sir Ronnie Flanagan described
5 Mr. Fulton as a Walter Mitty-type character, isn't that so?
6 A. Yes.
7 243 Q. And do you regard Sir Ronnie Flanagan as a person of
8 competence?
9 A. Of course.
10 244 Q. Would you be concerned by the fact that he has described
11 Kevin Fulton, your source, as a Walter Mitty?
12 A. I was aware of it at the time.
13 245 Q. Does it cause you concern?
14 A. Not overly, no, because I have to make my own judgements on
15 these matters, and I have done so, and I am satisfied that
16 the actions that I have taken were correct and that the
17 evidence presented by Kevin Fulton was of sufficient
18 concern to warrant the matters being further inquired into
19 by this Tribunal.
20 246 Q. Do you believe the RUC colluded with the IRA in assisting
21 them in their terrorist campaign in Northern Ireland?
22 A. I have no evidence of that.
23 247 Q. Do you believe it is likely?
24 A. I have no evidence of it. Whether -- if you are saying --
25 when you say the RUC, if you mean that the RUC, as a force,
26 colluded with the Provisional IRA, I don't believe that is
27 the case.
28 248 Q. Do you know who believes that?
29 A. I am sure there are many people out there and there are
30 many times when allegations have been made that the RUC, as
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 60
1 a force, colluded with the IRA. That has been the purpose
2 of a number of inquiries in Northern Ireland. So I would
3 guess there are a range of people who believe that.
4 249 Q. I suggest to you it's a farcical suggestion?
5 A. Well --
6 250 Q. Do you agree with me?
7 A. It depends on the evidence that is presented, doesn't it,
8 at the end of the day.
9 251 Q. Okay. Kevin Fulton has said that in his statement. He
10 says, page 20 of his statement: "Reverting to the meeting
11 between Corrigan and 'Mooch' Blair outside the Céilí House,
12 it was not a surprise to me to see this meeting takes place
13 because the cops in the North were also helping us as
14 well."
15 A. Yes...
16 252 Q. Now, do you believe that?
17 A. What does "helping us" mean?
18 253 Q. Well, providing information to the Provisional IRA --
19 A. Well --
20 254 Q. -- to assist them in their campaign.
21 A. Well, does it?
22 255 Q. Mr. Donaldson, you seem to go out of your way on every
23 possible occasion to try to protect any question-mark over
24 Kevin Fulton?
25 A. No, I am simply asking -- I am posing a rhetorical
26 question. If Mr. Fulton has said that they were getting
27 help, what does that mean?
28 256 Q. Well --
29 A. Does it mean -- where does it say that the RUC were passing
30 information to the IRA?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 61
1 257 Q. I'm going to read the sentence out to you again, and if you
2 believe that this doesn't indicate collusion by the RUC
3 with the IRA, tell me again. He says the following:
4 "Reverting to the meeting between Corrigan and 'Mooch'
5 Blair outside the Céilí House" -- that's where Mr. Fulton
6 says collusion was going on -- "it was not a surprise to me
7 to see this meeting take place because the cops in the
8 North were also helping us as well."
9 Are you suggesting to the Chairman that that isn't
10 Mr. Fulton suggesting collusion on the part of the RUC?
11 A. I am suggesting that Mr. Fulton, as a member of the IRA,
12 met his RUC handlers on a number of occasions. That is a
13 matter of fact. I believe that some of those handlers have
14 referred to meetings that he attended. So Mr. Fulton was
15 in contact with the IRA -- or with the RUC, as a member of
16 the IRA. That is known and established. Indeed, it was
17 the security forces who placed Mr. Fulton in the position
18 that he held as an agent within the IRA. So of course
19 there would be contact between informers in the IRA.
20 Mr. Fulton was not alone. There were many other informers
21 in the IRA who met their RUC handlers on a regular basis.
22 258 Q. Mr. Donaldson --
23 A. And this was what was happening. This was a meeting
24 between a garda sergeant and a member of the IRA. So, if
25 Mr. Fulton -- and you'll have to ask him, I can't speak for
26 Mr. Fulton, you'll have to ask him what he means by this.
27 But if he means that it was not unusual for the IRA to be
28 meeting with police officers, yes, there are many members
29 of the IRA who were informants and who met regularly with
30 members of the RUC.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 62
1 259 Q. What the statement means, in my opinion, and I will take
2 you up on it and I'll ask Kevin Fulton about it, but I
3 suggest to you it's clear that the statement means the
4 following: It means that, in the same way as a member of
5 the Garda Siochana was assisting the IRA, similarly,
6 members of the RUC were assisting the IRA. That's what the
7 statement means. Do you think that is likely,
8 Mr. Donaldson?
9 A. I have no evidence of that.
10 260 Q. Okay. You have a statement from Kevin Fulton stating it.
11 A. I am not convinced that that is what Kevin Fulton is
12 saying.
13 261 Q. If Kevin Fulton confirms that, will you go into the House
14 of Commons next week and state that you have a concern
15 about members of the RUC colluding with the IRA?
16 A. If he provides specific information, then of course those
17 matters will have to be examined.
18 262 Q. He has provided specific information.
19 A. No, he hasn't. I hear no mention of dates, times,
20 individuals, all of which he has provided in relation to
21 the meeting with Owen Corrigan.
22 263 Q. And just to get an agreement between ourselves on that. If
23 I ask him that and if he gives that information and that's
24 transferred to you, will you make a statement in the House
25 of Commons stating that, that there was collusion between
26 the RUC and the IRA?
27 A. I will do what I did in the first instance in relation to
28 the information that was given to me by Kevin Fulton. I
29 will do what I can to verify the veracity of what he is
30 saying before I make a judgement-call on whether this is a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 63
1 matter that should be placed in the public domain. I do
2 not -- in my political career, what I have sought to do
3 when I am given information of this nature, is take
4 reasonable steps to try and establish whether this is a
5 matter that is of public interest and whether it should be
6 placed in the public domain.
7 264 Q. Mr. Donaldson, I want to say the following to you, and I
8 have thought carefully about it, and I'll ask you not to be
9 offended by it but it's something I must put to you because
10 I know my client wants me to put it and I think he is right
11 that it should be put to you.
12
13 I want to suggest to you that by stating in the House of
14 Commons that Owen Corrigan colluded in the murder of Chief
15 Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan, and
16 indeed in the murder of the members of the Hanna family,
17 that you committed one of the most outrageous abuses of
18 parliamentary privilege since the Bill of Rights. Would
19 you like to comment on that?
20 A. I don't accept that for a moment. I believe that I had a
21 duty, as a public representative, to place in the public
22 domain information that had been given to me and, in so
23 doing, my motivation was to make the case for an
24 independent public inquiry to establish the facts.
25 265 Q. And you used Owen Corrigan for the purpose of trying to
26 advance your own political agenda, which was the
27 establishment of this independent inquiry, do you agree
28 with that?
29 A. I used the information given to me by Kevin Fulton.
30 266 Q. And the evidence you gave, or the evidence that was given
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 64
1 to you by Kevin Fulton, you completely and naively
2 swallowed that information because it suited your political
3 agenda?
4 A. Then my naivety is shared by Judge Cory.
5 267 Q. I don't think Judge Cory went to the same extent as you.
6 Judge Cory said that there was evidence, because of what
7 was contained within Kevin Fulton's statement, justifying
8 the establishment of a public inquiry. That's what he
9 said.
10 A. That's what I am saying.
11 268 Q. No, you are not.
12 A. I am.
13 269 Q. In your statement, you are saying that Owen Corrigan has
14 known IRA sympathies, isn't that correct, you said that?
15 A. Did I?
16 270 Q. "Chief Superintendent Breen expressed concern about
17 Sergeant Corrigan's known IRA sympathies." That's what you
18 said in the House of Commons?
19 A. No, I simply repeated what had been told to me about Chief
20 Superintendent Breen's opinion. There is a difference,
21 there is a difference.
22 271 Q. Well, I suggest to you that what you did to my client on
23 the 13th of April, 2000, was an absolute disgrace,
24 Mr. Donaldson?
25 A. That's your opinion, not mine.
26 272 Q. It's not simply my opinion, I have to put it to you,
27 because Mr. Corrigan gave evidence from that box there, and
28 he was asked what did he think of your statement in the
29 House of Commons, and the words he used were "It's an
30 absolute disgrace." You disagree with that?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 65
1 A. He is entitled to his opinion. I strongly disagree with
2 it.
3 273 Q. Can I ask you, before you made the statement in the House
4 of Commons naming Owen Corrigan, did you at any stage think
5 about the impact your statement would have upon him?
6 A. Of course.
7 274 Q. And what did you think?
8 A. I believed the information that had been given to me was of
9 a sufficiently strong nature that it warranted and
10 justified making this information public through the Houses
11 of Parliament. I stand by that judgement. And, of course,
12 I have to consider -- take all things into consideration,
13 but, in the end, I felt that it was important that the case
14 was made for an independent public inquiry, and that is why
15 I proceeded to make the statement in the way that I did.
16 275 Q. Wasn't it perfectly feasible of you to make the strong case
17 for a public independent inquiry without naming Owen
18 Corrigan?
19 A. I made the judgement that that was not sufficient and that
20 naming Owen Corrigan would demonstrate that there was
21 evidence in the possession of the police that warranted the
22 pursuit of these matters through an independent public
23 inquiry.
24 276 Q. You could have done it without naming Owen Corrigan,
25 couldn't you?
26 A. I could have decided not to do anything. I could have
27 decided to tell Kevin Fulton that I wasn't interested, but
28 I was interested. I have explained to the Tribunal the
29 steps that I took and the factors I took into consideration
30 before I decided to make these comments in the House of
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 66
1 Commons. I stand by what I have done.
2 277 Q. Did you, at any stage prior to making the statement,
3 consider the impact it would have upon Mr. Corrigan's
4 family?
5 A. All of these matters, of course, I would take into
6 consideration. I also had to take into consideration the
7 families of Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan; they have rights
8 as well, they have the right to establish the truth. And
9 where the allegations have been made and where information
10 has been presented, I felt that this justified the holding
11 of an independent public inquiry, and that inquiry would
12 establish the facts. That is all that I have asked for.
13 That is what I said in the House of Commons. This Inquiry
14 is the vehicle by which we will establish the facts.
15 278 Q. If you are wrong about Owen Corrigan and what you said
16 about him, would you agree with me that the families of
17 Chief Superintendent Breen and Superintendent Buchanan were
18 not served well by your incorrect statement, if you were
19 wrong?
20 A. No, I would not believe that for one moment.
21 279 Q. Okay, you don't think that those families have been done a
22 disservice if you falsely put out there information
23 suggesting that their loved ones had been murdered through
24 the collusion of a man, and that man was fully innocent,
25 you don't think that's a disservice to those families?
26 A. I suggest to you there is a difference between falsely
27 putting out information and putting out information that is
28 false. My motivation in all of this is based on the
29 information that I have been given. As a public
30 representative, I had to make a judgement-call. I took
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 67
1 into consideration all of the people involved, including
2 the families, and I felt that there was an imperative to
3 have an independent public inquiry into these matters. The
4 inquiry will establish whether or not these -- the
5 information is accurate.
6 280 Q. My client --
7 A. That is not my job.
8 281 Q. My client wanted to be here this afternoon, Mr. Donaldson,
9 but unfortunately he is in hospital, but what he
10 specifically wanted me to say to you, and I think I have an
11 obligation to say it to you, and I know as a Christian
12 gentleman you'll want to reflect upon it, but he wanted me
13 to say that the thing that offended him and upset him most
14 is that this allegation which you made eleven-and-a-half
15 years ago, was still out there in the public domain when
16 his wife died in 2008, and he says, and will give further
17 evidence about this, that as a result of your statement in
18 the House of Commons, and I know you may not have intended
19 this, but as a result of your statement, his life and the
20 life of his family was completely traumatised. Can you
21 accept that that would have been the consequence of your
22 statement?
23 A. I can't accept that, because I don't have the evidence that
24 that is the case.
25 282 Q. I am saying it to you from --
26 A. He is entitled to his view, of course. I respect that.
27 283 Q. He knows about the impact upon his family more than you,
28 doesn't he?
29 A. My motivation in all of this was not to harm anyone, but it
30 was to ensure that an inquiry was established to determine
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 68
1 the facts and the truth. Now, in politics, you have to
2 make balanced judgements. The Peace Process has been a
3 long journey in which balanced judgements have had to be
4 made about many, many difficult and challenging issues.
5 This is one of them, and I had to make a balanced
6 judgement. In weighing up that balanced judgement, I had
7 to consider, of course, Mr. Corrigan, his family, the
8 families of Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan and the public
9 interest. I came to a decision, based on my own judgement.
10 I am not asking anyone to accept that judgement. I stand
11 by it. It is my judgement. I made the decision. I
12 believe it was the right decision. I do not resile from
13 it.
14 284 Q. Can we agree that where we are today is that you do not
15 know whether Owen Corrigan was involved in collusion
16 leading up to these murders, but --
17 A. That is the purpose of this Inquiry, and my motivation in
18 naming him in the House of Commons was to make the case
19 that there is information linking him to the murders and
20 this needs to be examined, it needs to be investigated and
21 that the best vehicle for doing that would be an
22 independent public inquiry. That is all that I asked for.
23 285 Q. Okay. But maybe, with the benefit of hindsight, would you
24 agree with me that you could have done this without naming
25 him?
26 A. I could have done many things. I made a judgement-call. I
27 stand by that judgement.
28 286 Q. Okay. And, of course, you didn't name Kevin Fulton in
29 terms of, I have evidence from an agent, didn't you?
30 A. No.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 69
1 287 Q. Why didn't you name Kevin Fulton?
2 A. I subsequently did.
3 288 Q. Why didn't you name him in 2000?
4 A. I didn't think it was necessary.
5 289 Q. Did you think that it may pose a threat to him?
6 A. Potentially. That may have been the case, but it wouldn't
7 have been the overriding issue because I think Kevin Fulton
8 was in a position at that stage where he was being provided
9 with a degree of security.
10 290 Q. Did you think that you were exposing Mr. Corrigan to a
11 threat of violence?
12 A. No, I did not believe that to be the case.
13 291 Q. After you made your statement, you got a letter from
14 Mr. Corrigan's solicitor, isn't that correct?
15 A. I am told that a letter was sent to me. I do not believe I
16 ever received the letter.
17 292 Q. I'll hand you up a copy of it now, and a copy for the
18 Chairman, as well.
19 (Document handed to the witness and Chairman)
20 This is a letter, Mr. Donaldson, dated the 18th of April,
21 2000, from Patrick Quinn & Company. Are you saying you
22 didn't get this letter?
23 A. I have no recollection of ever having received a letter
24 from Mr. Corrigan, but I am aware that he has stated in the
25 media that a letter was sent to me.
26 293 Q. Well, is there another Mr. Jeffrey Donaldson, MP, in the
27 House of Commons, London, SW1?
28 A. Not that I am aware of, no. There was at the time a Lord
29 Donaldson, and we occasionally received each other's
30 e-mails.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 70
1 294 Q. Are you suggesting that you didn't get this letter?
2 A. That is, indeed, what I am suggesting.
3 295 Q. Well, I have to suggest to you that that's not a plausible
4 explanation, Mr. Donaldson.
5 A. Well...
6 296 Q. This letter was sent by a solicitor, and, if needs be, we
7 will call evidence from his former solicitors.
8 A. I have no doubt the letter was sent, but that is not
9 evidence of the letter having been received. It is not
10 unusual, I can tell you, for correspondence that is sent to
11 me to go missing in the post.
12 297 Q. Yeah, well I don't think this went missing.
13 A. Well, there you go.
14 298 Q. Let's open the letter. 18th of April, 2000. It's
15 addressed to Mr. Donaldson:
16
17 "Dear Sir,
18 We refer to a report in last Friday's edition of the
19 Belfast Telegraph in which it is stated that you used
20 parliamentary privilege to claim that our above-named
21 client had been involved in the double murder of Chief
22 Superintendent Harry Breen and Superintendent Bob Buchanan
23 in 1990. We appreciate that what might be said under cover
24 of parliamentary privilege is not actionable, but we are
25 nonetheless instructed by our client to write to you for
26 the purpose of saying that what you have alleged against
27 our client is a monstrous lie, and anyone who had the
28 slightest knowledge of the course of our client's dealings
29 with criminal subversives during the course of his career
30 in An Garda Siochana would know that to be the case.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 71
1 You must be aware that an allegation of the type you have
2 made is immediately liable to have the effect of
3 endangering the life of the object of it, and it is surely
4 reasonable, therefore, to expect that a responsible
5 parliamentarian would only make such an allegation in
6 circumstances where, firstly, there was evidence available
7 to put beyond doubt the veracity of such an allegation, and
8 secondly, where there was a clear and urgent public
9 interest that such an allegation should be made.
10
11 "Our client was not in any way, shape or form linked to the
12 brutal murders to which you referred. He was not, as a
13 matter of fact, aware that the two RUC officers were in
14 Dundalk on the day in question. It follows that there can
15 be no evidence to the contrary. It is obviously a matter
16 of the most serious concern when someone in our client's
17 position is made the subject of vile and unfounded
18 allegations based on nothing more than malicious rumours,
19 generated by jealous, disaffected or mercenary third
20 parties. It is a matter of even greater concern when a
21 Member of Parliament can be so taken in by this kind of
22 malicious falsehood that he should feel it appropriate to
23 use parliamentary privilege in such a way as will
24 effectively endanger the life of an innocent man and the
25 lives of innocent members of his family."
26
27 Now, do you recall that letter?
28 A. I honestly do not recall the letter.
29 299 Q. Well, if you had received a letter like that, do you think
30 you would recall it?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 72
1 A. Twelve years ago?
2 300 Q. Well, we got no reply to the letter.
3 A. No.
4 301 Q. Now, that suggests two things: First of all, you may be
5 correct in terms you never got the letter. I am sure that
6 can be checked through your records, can it?
7 A. I have no idea.
8 302 Q. Do you keep letters from eleven years ago, Mr. Donaldson?
9 A. No, no.
10 303 Q. What do you do with them?
11 A. Six years I keep records.
12 304 Q. So either your explanation is that the letter didn't
13 arrive, or, alternatively, the explanation is, you couldn't
14 care less about Owen Corrigan, and if a letter came in
15 about him, you wouldn't even bother reading it?
16 A. That wouldn't be true. I would certainly -- I read all
17 letters that come in to me.
18 305 Q. Did you ever feel that you should have sent a letter to
19 Owen Corrigan, a letter of explanation to him or his
20 solicitor, as to why you made the statement in the House of
21 Commons?
22 A. No.
23 306 Q. Can I ask you about Mr. Mains. When did you meet Alan
24 Mains for the first time?
25 A. I met Alan for the first time when he came to me about a
26 family matter that he sought my assistance with.
27 307 Q. Okay. And you --
28 A. Not in a professional capacity.
29 308 Q. And you said in your statement, at the end of it, that you
30 only became aware of Mr. Mains' statement, I think, after
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 73
1 Weston Park, is that correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 309 Q. Did you ever discuss the Breen and Buchanan murders with
4 Mr. Mains?
5 A. No.
6 310 Q. No, you didn't. Okay. So I don't need to ask you about
7 that. I just want to ask you whether you are aware of some
8 important pieces of information about Mr. Corrigan, because
9 I think you knew very little about him before you made your
10 statement, is that fair to say?
11 A. It would, I suppose, yes.
12 311 Q. You wouldn't have been aware that he had been a member of
13 An Garda Siochana for 31 years, would you have been?
14 A. I was aware that he was a long-serving member. I don't
15 know that I would have known the specific years.
16 312 Q. Were you aware that a retired Assistant Commissioner of An
17 Garda Siochana, Mr. Ainsworth, said of Mr. Corrigan that
18 "His supply of intelligence was one of the best in the
19 State."
20 A. I would not have been aware of that, no.
21 313 Q. Could I ask you again, Mr. Donaldson, to look at the cipher
22 and see if you can identify Witness No. 27?
23 A. Yes.
24 314 Q. Is that a gentleman of whom you are aware?
25 A. No.
26 315 Q. He was a very senior member of the Royal Ulster
27 Constabulary whose life was threatened on so many occasions
28 by the Provisional IRA that he had to leave Northern
29 Ireland. He gave evidence to this Tribunal that
30 Mr. Corrigan provided him with excellent intelligence on
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 74
1 the Provisional IRA. Were you aware of that?
2 A. No.
3 316 Q. He also gave evidence that Mr. Corrigan saved his life in a
4 threatened IRA ambush. Were you aware of that?
5 A. No.
6 317 Q. Were you aware that Mr. Corrigan was the member of An Garda
7 Siochana who physically handed over Dominic McGlinchey when
8 he was being extradited?
9 A. No.
10 318 Q. Would you agree with me that the extradition of Dominic
11 McGlinchey was quite a significant event in terms of the
12 two jurisdictions on this island?
13 A. Indeed.
14 319 Q. Were you aware that Mr. Corrigan was asked to be the guard
15 to hand over Mr. McGlinchey because other members of An
16 Garda Siochana didn't want to be seen to be handing him
17 over because of the potential threat of harassment that
18 could be exposed to them?
19 A. No, I wasn't aware.
20 320 Q. Were you aware that after Mr. Corrigan handed over Dominic
21 McGlinchey, that the Provisional IRA put posters of him up
22 around Dundalk stating "Wanted for Treason," were you aware
23 of that?
24 A. No, I wasn't, although Dominic McGlinchey, I believe, was a
25 member of the INLA.
26 321 Q. That is correct, but posters were put up. It didn't state
27 who were the publishers of the posters?
28 A. Ah, you said it was the Provisional IRA.
29 322 Q. I beg your pardon. Was put up by subversives, stating
30 "Wanted". Were you aware of that?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 75
1 A. Who knows who put them up?
2 323 Q. Well, what are you suggesting, that Mr. Corrigan put them
3 up?
4 A. I am not. I am just saying, who knows who put them up? I
5 don't think you or I know.
6 324 Q. Okay. Were you aware that posters were put up?
7 A. No.
8 325 Q. Of that, there is no doubt?
9 A. No.
10 326 Q. With photographs of Mr. Corrigan, stating "Wanted"?
11 A. No.
12 327 Q. Okay. Were you aware that Mr. Corrigan and his wife were
13 out for a drink one evening and they were attacked by
14 members of the Provisional IRA on a social occasion?
15 A. No.
16 328 Q. Okay. That's a factor that your friend Kevin Fulton has
17 included in one of his statements. So presumably you
18 believe that?
19 A. He has said what?
20 329 Q. He has said that Owen Corrigan and his wife were attacked
21 one evening. They were having a drink, members of the
22 Provisional IRA came up and threw pints of beer over both
23 of them. Mr. Fulton even acknowledges that. Do you think
24 that's the way that the IRA would treat a valued mole in An
25 Garda Siochana?
26 A. Potentially, yes. It's a good way of covering your tracks.
27 330 Q. Were you aware that Mr. Corrigan was severely beaten up by
28 the Provisional IRA after he left An Garda Siochana?
29 A. No.
30 331 Q. Do you think that's how the IRA would treat a valued mole?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 76
1 Presumably, the answer is yes?
2 A. They treated their own members that way.
3 332 Q. Are you aware that one newspaper published an article about
4 Mr. Corrigan, repeating the allegations you made about him,
5 and Mr. Corrigan went to court and sued the newspaper? He
6 got substantial damages from the newspaper. Were you aware
7 of that?
8 A. The Sunday Times, I believe.
9 333 Q. Incorrect. It was Associated Newspapers.
10 A. Okay.
11 334 Q. Is it a coincidence that the only two occasions upon which
12 you have made allegations about Owen Corrigan colluding
13 with the IRA have occurred when you have the benefit of
14 either a parliamentary or statutory privilege?
15 A. I am a member of Parliament. Parliament is the place where
16 I raise these issues.
17 335 Q. If a journalist asks you outside this building, as you are
18 departing, whether or not you'll repeat the allegation
19 about Owen Corrigan, Mr. Donaldson, will you do so?
20 A. I have said what I wanted to say in the House of Commons.
21 I have no reason to say it anywhere else other than in this
22 Tribunal, which is the place where it properly should be
23 said, because this is the Tribunal that is considering the
24 facts.
25 336 Q. And will you try and answer the question?
26 A. I have answered the question.
27 337 Q. If a journalist outside this building asks you will you
28 repeat the allegations that you made against Owen Corrigan
29 in the House of Commons, and indeed here, will you do so?
30 A. I would say, you should have been inside listening to what
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 77
1 I had to say.
2 338 Q. So the answer is, you won't?
3 A. I will state the facts as I have stated them in Parliament
4 and in this place, because I believe these are the
5 appropriate places to do so.
6 339 Q. And I have to suggest to you the reason they are the
7 appropriate place for you is because you have the
8 protection of privilege here and you are afraid to say them
9 outside because you know you don't have the proof or the
10 evidence to back up your suggestions?
11 A. Well, I would disagree with that.
12 340 Q. Okay. Were you aware of a member of the RUC, who
13 unfortunately died in the helicopter crash, called Brian
14 Fitzsimons?
15 A. Yes.
16 341 Q. He was a very senior figure in the Royal Ulster
17 Constabulary, isn't that so, Mr. Donaldson?
18 A. I believe so, yes.
19 342 Q. He was a person who was well-acquainted with Owen Corrigan,
20 and, in fact, evidence was given yesterday by Mr. Ryder
21 that he encountered Brian Fitzsimons and Owen Corrigan, and
22 Owen Corrigan will give evidence to the effect that he
23 provided useful intelligence information to Brian
24 Fitzsimons. Do you have any reason to dispute that?
25 A. No.
26 343 Q. Would you agree with me that although it was no way
27 comparable to the position that members of the RUC found
28 themselves in, it was, nonetheless, difficult for members
29 of An Garda Siochana to operate in Dundalk in the 1970s and
30 1980s?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 78
1 A. No more than it was for RUC officers to operate in south
2 Armagh.
3 344 Q. Well, that's why I prefaced -- I would have thought they
4 are not comparable, because RUC officers were under the
5 constant threat of being murdered, whereas Garda officers,
6 in fairness, weren't; I think you'll accept that?
7 A. In most cases, yes.
8 345 Q. What I was trying to say to you is that, would you accept
9 that it was difficult to be a member of An Garda Siochana
10 in Dundalk, in the border areas, in around the seventies
11 and eighties, because there were so many subversives there?
12 A. Well, if the comparison is between Dundalk and Mayo, you
13 may well be correct. I'm not sure what you are suggesting.
14 346 Q. Well, Gardaí were intimidated by the IRA.
15 A. So were politicians. It is a question of whether or not
16 you stand up to the intimidation or bow down to it.
17 347 Q. We are not -- it's not a competition as to --
18 A. I understand that.
19 348 Q. -- who is on the hierarchy, Mr. Donaldson --
20 A. I am simply saying I can understand the position they were
21 in.
22 349 Q. Yes. You accept that Gardaí were intimidated? And, in
23 fact, the Chairman has heard evidence to that effect.
24 A. I suggest to you there probably isn't a police force in the
25 world where police officers are not subjected to
26 intimidation.
27 350 Q. And Owen Corrigan has given evidence here, and others have
28 given evidence to this effect as well, that he stood up
29 bravely to the Provisional IRA in its campaign of violence
30 for 20, 30 years of his career. That's the evidence he
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 79
1 will give. And, in part, it's because of that,
2 Mr. Donaldson, that he found your statements so offensive.
3 Can you understand, from his point of view, why he was so
4 offended by what you said?
5 A. He is entitled to his point of view, of course.
6 351 Q. And with the benefit of what you know now, about mistakes
7 in the Toby Harnden book, about evidence that has been
8 given about Kevin Fulton, about the impossibility of
9 Mr. Corrigan being in the car the weeks or months before
10 the murder of Tom Oliver, on the basis of that, would you
11 be prepared to withdraw the allegations you made against
12 Owen Corrigan in the House of Commons?
13 A. No. I was given information, information that I felt it
14 was important to put into the public domain for the express
15 purpose of securing a public, an independent public
16 inquiry. That inquiry is now taking place, and I am
17 content for the inquiry to pursue the matter and to come to
18 its findings.
19 352 Q. Well, maybe I'll ask you a lesser question, then. If, at
20 the conclusion of this Inquiry, the Chairman reaches a
21 conclusion that Owen Corrigan was not involved in colluding
22 in the killings of Chief Superintendent Breen and
23 Superintendent Buchanan, will you make a statement in the
24 House of Commons withdrawing what you said on the 13th of
25 April, 2000?
26 A. It depends on what you mean by "the allegations". The
27 allegations have been made by others. I have repeated them
28 in the House of Commons for the purpose of securing an
29 independent inquiry. If the Inquiry concludes that
30 Mr. Corrigan was not involved in collusion, and the facts,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 80
1 as contained in the report of the Inquiry, support that,
2 then I will have to accept the findings of the Inquiry.
3 353 Q. And would you consider even apologising to him if that
4 occurred?
5 A. Well, I will consider all of those things at the time.
6 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thank you, Mr. Donaldson.
7
8 MR. COFFEY: No questions.
9
10 MS. O'SULLIVAN: No questions.
11
12 MS. O'HARE: I have a few questions for Mr. Donaldson.
13
14 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MS. O'HARE AS FOLLOWS:
15
16 354 Q. MS. O'HARE: Mr. Donaldson, I am here today on behalf of
17 Mr. Freddie Scappaticci, and his name is mentioned in the
18 notes that you have been referred to already. You say that
19 when you spoke to Kevin Fulton on the two meetings, during
20 the two meetings before your first statement in the House
21 of Commons, that he did not mention Scappaticci to you;
22 that's the case?
23 A. That's correct.
24 355 Q. Thank you.
25
26 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions?
27
28 29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 81
1 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS
2 AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 356 Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Good afternoon, Mr. Donaldson. My name is
5 Mr. McGuinness. I appear for An Garda Siochana.
6 Mr. Donaldson, over your career, you have displayed a very
7 great interest and knowledge of security and police
8 matters, I think you'd agree with that. And I take it
9 you'd also agree with me that, as a public representative,
10 you are in a privileged position, not simply a
11 parliamentary privilege, but you are privileged because you
12 get to hear a lot of information that other people in other
13 jobs would never get to hear, you'd agree with that?
14 A. I would, indeed.
15 357 Q. And you have contact with Government departments and the
16 police forces and the security services and you are privy
17 to information that is never published, and can't be
18 published in many cases, would you agree with that?
19 A. I would.
20 358 Q. And I just want to be clear. As I understand your
21 evidence, and correct me if I am wrong, but can I summarise
22 it in this way, by suggesting to you that you have no
23 evidence, as it were, implicating Mr. Corrigan or any other
24 member of An Garda Siochana, other than what Mr. Fulton
25 told you?
26 A. And what was contained in the book, Toby Harnden's book.
27 359 Q. Mr. Harnden's book?
28 A. Yes. And there are a number of cases within Mr. Harnden's
29 book to which I referred in my comments in the House of
30 Commons that we haven't gone into detail on here today. So
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 82
1 there may be other information apart from what Mr. Fulton
2 had said to me. But in relation to Breen and Buchanan,
3 that is correct.
4 360 Q. And so it means that before you met Mr. Fulton in late
5 1999, Mr. Corrigan's name had never been mentioned to you?
6 A. Not that I can recall.
7 361 Q. And you hadn't received any information from any of the
8 security services or the police, implicating any member of
9 An Garda Siochana in collusion?
10 A. Not Mr. Corrigan.
11 362 Q. And insofar as the capability of the IRA were concerned,
12 you would have a great deal of knowledge about their
13 killing capacity?
14 A. Indeed.
15 363 Q. Both for personal and, obviously, political reasons. But
16 have you come across instances where you have seen examples
17 of some of their atrocities where they have obviously
18 targeted people over perhaps a number of months?
19 A. Yes, of course.
20 364 Q. And put them under surveillance?
21 A. Yes.
22 365 Q. And intercepted their phones, perhaps?
23 A. Myself included.
24 366 Q. And all of those things were within the capacity of the
25 IRA?
26 A. Indeed.
27 367 Q. During many years of their campaign?
28 A. Yes.
29 368 Q. Now, Mr. O'Callaghan asked you about an interpretation of
30 Mr. Fulton's statement suggesting possible RUC collusion
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 83
1 with the IRA, and Mr. Fulton will be here to give his
2 explanation for that. But did you ever hear of any rumours
3 or concerns relating to RUC collusion with the IRA in
4 relation to these murders?
5 A. Yes, of course. As I have said earlier, even around the
6 time of the murders, there would have been talk of possible
7 collusion.
8 369 Q. And did you ever receive any information or evidence in
9 relation to that, other than just hearing rumours?
10 A. Nothing as specific as that provided by Mr. Fulton.
11 370 Q. But -- I am not sure whether you misheard my question. I
12 was putting it in the context of rumours of RUC collusion
13 with --
14 A. Sorry, my apologies. Sorry. There have been allegations
15 of collusion by the RUC with loyalist paramilitaries which
16 have been the subject of, and are the subject of,
17 inquiries. I am not aware of specific inquiries relating
18 to allegations that the RUC colluded with the IRA and no
19 one has come to me with evidence of that nature.
20 371 Q. Did you hear any talk of those concerns around the time of
21 the Weston Park negotiations, in relation to the Breen and
22 Buchanan murders?
23 A. Of the RUC colluding with the IRA?
24 372 Q. An RUC officer colluding?
25 A. No.
26 373 Q. You didn't hear any talk of that?
27 A. No.
28 374 Q. All right. Now, in relation to Mr. Fulton, I think you
29 told the Chairman that he did raise the issue of a pension
30 with you, is that right, or compensation of some form?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 84
1 A. He did, Chairman. He wrote to me -- in fact, I have the
2 letter with me, if you'll excuse me for one moment. He
3 wrote to me on the 29th of July, 2005, in connection with
4 his own personal circumstances.
5 375 Q. But did he raise the issue verbally with you before that at
6 any stage?
7 A. No, and indeed that's clear from a reading of the letter.
8 376 Q. And you don't know whether he had been agitating about the
9 issue of compensation from the Ministry of Defence from
10 earlier?
11 A. No, and it had never been mentioned to me and nor was I
12 aware that he had raised such a matter.
13 377 Q. Because he has published a book; I don't know whether you
14 have read that book?
15 A. I am aware of the book, yes.
16 378 Q. And have you had time to read it amongst your --
17 A. I have, yes, several years ago.
18 379 Q. Did you see in the introduction to that book written by
19 Mr. Martin Ingram, he said that he first met Mr. Fulton in
20 1999 in Dublin, because he, Mr. Fulton, was anxious to
21 raise this issue of compensation from the Ministry of
22 Defence. So were you not aware that he appears to have
23 been agitating about that for at least that, around that
24 time?
25 A. No, I am not, and that is clear from the tenor and the
26 content of this letter, he had never raised it with me, nor
27 was I aware that he had been raising it with others.
28 380 Q. Okay. So if it was a concern of his, whether in '99 or
29 not, he never told you of that?
30 A. No, he didn't.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 85
1 381 Q. And you weren't aware of it otherwise?
2 A. No. And if I may, Chairman, quote from the second
3 paragraph of the letter.
4 382 Q. Of course.
5 A. This is dated the 29th of July, 2005:
6 "Accordingly, I would now ask you to help individuals such
7 as myself, a former member of the British Army, who played
8 a specific role in the intelligence war against the IRA."
9 Note the "Accordingly, I would now ask". He had never
10 raised it with me prior to that, and he had never written
11 to me. Indeed, the first line of the letter says "Excuse
12 me for writing directly to you." This was the first time I
13 had received correspondence from Mr. Fulton.
14 383 Q. Thank you for that, Mr. Donaldson. Well, when you did meet
15 him in late 1999 or -- and early 2000, did you know whether
16 or not he had been involved in any murders or not?
17 A. No. He has not ever told me that he was involved in
18 murders.
19 384 Q. It's just Mr. Ingram, in his introduction to Mr. Fulton's
20 own book, says "Initially, I have to admit to feeling
21 sceptical about meeting with this murderer."
22 But you weren't aware of any issue relating to anything
23 like that?
24 A. No.
25 385 Q. And Mr. Fulton certainly didn't tell you anything about
26 that?
27 A. No, he didn't, nor has he ever.
28 386 Q. And you are aware, in the book he describes, as he says,
29 working with the IRA, building bombs, and making bombs for
30 and with them on occasion. And was that something that you
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 86
1 were aware of when you were meeting him?
2 A. Not for the first time, no.
3 387 Q. And for the second time, did you know that?
4 A. Well, he told me that he had infiltrated the IRA, and
5 obviously someone who infiltrates the IRA is going to
6 become involved in activities which are unlawful.
7 388 Q. But did he tell you that or was that something you learnt
8 from your senior security source?
9 A. That is something I deduced for myself.
10 389 Q. But -- something that you deduced from yourself?
11 A. Initially, yes.
12 390 Q. But it's not something you raised with Mr. Fulton, as to
13 what he had been doing in the IRA?
14 A. Oh, indeed I did, and at subsequent meetings, and I am
15 involved in some other cases which involved Mr. Fulton, one
16 of which is currently the subject, and has been for several
17 years, of an investigation by the Police Ombudsman for
18 Northern Ireland. And in the course of my discussions with
19 Mr. Fulton about that case, we have discussed precisely
20 those kinds of activities.
21 391 Q. But, I don't know if you saw a published report in a
22 newspaper this year, in the Guardian newspaper; it purports
23 to quote Mr. Fulton as making a claim about the Breen and
24 Buchanan murders, and I was wondering whether you could
25 tell the Chairman whether he has ever made that claim to
26 you?
27 A. I didn't see the claim.
28 392 Q. Perhaps I'd read that out --
29 A. I don't read the Guardian.
30 393 Q. It's also in the Banbridge News.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 87
1 A. The Banbridge Chronicle. Outside my constituency, I am
2 afraid.
3 394 Q. The quotation from the paper is: "Another FRU agent and
4 one-time IRA member known as Kevin Fulton has claimed State
5 agents involved in the ambush killed the two police
6 officers to prevent them being handed over to a provisional
7 interrogation unit with the danger of them leaking the
8 names of informants under torture."
9 Now, I don't know whether that's, obviously, a correct
10 quote of Mr. Fulton, but, on that assumption, did he ever
11 make such a claim to you?
12 A. No.
13 395 Q. And may the Chairman take it, you have obviously no
14 evidence to substantiate that kind of claim?
15 A. No, although I have read about the manner in which the two
16 officers were killed.
17 396 Q. You did raise a concern in your evidence, in direct
18 evidence to Mrs. Laverty, about the Warrenpoint, the Narrow
19 Water investigation there?
20 A. Yes.
21 397 Q. Did you know that, in fact, at the same time as the
22 explosion that killed all the officers, that a young man
23 had been shot on the southern side of the border, a
24 Mr. Hudson, and a cousin of his had been injured in a
25 shooting at the same time?
26 A. It may have featured in the news at the time, but it was
27 not something that I laterally was aware of.
28 398 Q. Well, did you know that the guards were investigating not
29 merely the issue of the bombing, but also a murder
30 investigation as well?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 88
1 A. I wasn't, but I am now.
2 399 Q. All right. Did you know that the Chief Forensic Scientist,
3 the expert brought by the authorities in Northern Ireland
4 to the scene of the bombing, that he was given access to
5 what were two suspected firing points on the southern side,
6 on two occasions, in liaison with the Gardaí; did you know
7 that at the time?
8 A. No.
9 400 Q. Did you know that he viewed it, apparently, on a third
10 occasion on his own, did you know that?
11 A. No, no.
12 401 Q. And you'd expect that the Gardaí would have, themselves,
13 preserved the scene and taken what samples that they
14 determined were necessary?
15 A. One would have expected that to be the case.
16 402 Q. And did you know, as a matter of fact, that the Garda
17 forensic report was handed over to the RUC at a very early
18 stage of the investigation?
19 A. I was aware that there was a report handed over, but I
20 wasn't clear about at what stage.
21 403 Q. All right. But I am not quite clear, are you making any
22 allegation or do you have any information to suggest that
23 there was any collusion by any member of An Garda Siochana
24 in relation to that issue?
25 A. May I consult my comments made in Parliament?
26 404 Q. Indeed.
27 A. No, I did not link collusion to the Narrow Water case.
28 405 Q. And have you any evidence or information as such now today
29 to suggest there is any collusion?
30 A. No, I think the point that I had made about the Narrow
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 89
1 Water case was inadequacies in the level of cooperation.
2 406 Q. All right. And just turning on to another issue that
3 Mrs. Laverty asked you about. She asked you had you ever
4 been asked by the authorities in Northern Ireland for any
5 information after you made your speech on the 13th of
6 April.
7 A. No.
8 407 Q. I think you said you weren't?
9 A. Yeah.
10 408 Q. She asked the same question in relation to the Gardaí. I
11 am not clear what the position is. Are you critical of the
12 Gardaí for not having asked a parliamentarian in another
13 jurisdiction --
14 A. No, no, not at all.
15 409 Q. And may the Chairman and the public take it that, given
16 that Mr. Buchanan was a constituent, that if you had had
17 any information or evidence, you would have brought it to
18 the RUC yourself immediately?
19 A. Yes. And that's why I say that I wasn't expecting the
20 Garda to be in touch with me. I would have expected it to
21 have been the RUC.
22 410 Q. But in any event, I don't know, did you go to the RUC with
23 any information?
24 A. Not about Narrow Water, no.
25 411 Q. I am talking about Breen and Buchanan.
26 A. Yes, I went to a senior member of the security forces about
27 the Breen and Buchanan case.
28 412 Q. But was that in connection with Mr. Fulton's approach to
29 you?
30 A. Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 90
1 413 Q. Well, I mean, may the Chairman take it that Mr. Fulton told
2 you that whatever information he had, he had already given
3 it to his handlers?
4 A. Indeed.
5 414 Q. And in the aftermath of your speech, did you have any other
6 information to give to the RUC or the Gardaí about the
7 Breen and Buchanan murders?
8 A. Not that, in my opinion, would have already been in their
9 possession. I believe that what Kevin Fulton told me, he
10 had told his handlers.
11 415 Q. But, factually, is it the case then --
12 A. But I did share that information with the security forces.
13 416 Q. Yes. But, factually, is it the case, then, that after your
14 speech and after having met Mr. Fulton, the only thing you
15 could say to anyone was what Mr. Fulton had told you?
16 A. In relation to -- yes, of course. No one else had come
17 forward to me with information other than that provided by
18 Mr. Fulton.
19 417 Q. And you -- certainly, you didn't go to the RUC after your
20 speech to say, "I have got all of this information or
21 evidence in relation to the Breen and Buchanan murders"?
22 A. I went to the security forces before my speech. And I was
23 aware that after my speech and after the publication of the
24 Harnden book, there was a review being undertaken by the
25 police authorities on both sides of the border, yes.
26 418 Q. You knew of Chief Superintendent McBurney's inquiries that
27 were going on?
28 A. I wouldn't have been aware of the individual, but of the
29 inquiry, yes.
30 419 Q. Thank you, Mr. Donaldson.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 91
1
2 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for the witness? Any
3 re-examination, Mrs. Laverty?
4
5 MRS. LAVERTY: Yes, Chairman. I won't detain you much
6 longer, Mr. Donaldson.
7
8 THE WITNESS WAS RE-EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY AS FOLLOWS:
9
10 420 Q. MRS. LAVERTY: One matter that arises out of the
11 cross-examination by the various parties here is that,
12 firstly, you were asked if there were any criticisms of the
13 Garda in relation to Narrow Water, and I think you said no,
14 it only came up in the context of something else, when you
15 made a comment about Narrow Water in the House of Commons.
16 A. Yes, it was in relation to comments made by a senior police
17 officer, Eric Anderson.
18 421 Q. Yes. And I think that he is giving a statement to the
19 Tribunal. Now, if I can just go back to the 13th of April
20 when you made your speech in the House of Commons, your
21 first speech, 13th of April, 2000. At that stage, you had
22 already spoken to Kevin Fulton. You made your speech,
23 having checked out the likelihood of it being true with a
24 senior security person. The 20th of December, 2000, that
25 year again, you had a supplementary question in the House
26 of Commons, and you told us that during that period of time
27 nobody had interviewed you about your earlier comments
28 about Kevin Fulton, neither the Gardaí nor the police
29 services in the North, and I take it that you would have
30 had absolutely no objection to discussing with senior
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 92
1 member of the Gardaí the allegation that you had made
2 openly in the House of Commons?
3 A. No, I would have.
4
5 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: I don't want to interrupt Mrs. Laverty,
6 Chairman, but Mr. Donaldson didn't say that he had checked
7 out the likelihood of it being true with the security force
8 member. He said he checked out the reliability of
9 Mr. Fulton. Mr. Fulton was the issue, not the story.
10
11 MRS. LAVERTY: I stand corrected.
12 A. And I was going to deal with that in my response. Yes, I
13 would have been happy to have discussed this with police
14 officers from either jurisdiction.
15 422 Q. Now, would you be very surprised to hear that during the
16 course of that year, that there was a very comprehensive
17 investigation being carried out by the Gardaí in the south,
18 called the Camon-Kirwan investigation, into allegations
19 concerning Garda collusion with the Provisional IRA; that
20 included subsequently when the report was published in May,
21 I think, 2000 -- it was reported to the Government -- it
22 actually included your first speech, would that surprise
23 you because, in fairness to you, and also in fairness to
24 Mr. Corrigan, I feel it's important to open this.
25
26 If I could -- if you could, Mr. Mills, put up just the
27 Index of the investigation contained in the Camon-Kirwan
28 Report on the screen and I'd like to show you precisely the
29 paragraphs that were being investigated, Mr. Donaldson.
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 93
1 If I could just have the title plays, Mr. Mills, first?
2 You'll see that the first one is:
3 "An Allegation Concerning Garda Collusion With the
4 Provisional IRA (PIRA) in Five Terrorist Incidents in the
5 Border Area of Louth/Armagh During the Period 1985 to 1991.
6
7 Garda Investigations and Analysis of All Relevant Files on
8 the Issues."
9
10 So that's the title page.
11
12 The table of contents, then, there is an Executive Summary.
13
14 "1. Subject.
15 2. Introduction.
16 3. Allegations contained in Bandit Country.
17 4. Allegations contained in The Irish Times article by
18 Kevin Myers on the 10th March 2000.
19 5. Reaction to allegations from various sources.
20
21 "5.5. Allegations made by Mr. Jeffrey Donaldson, MP, in
22 the House of Commons on the 13th April 2000.
23
24 "5.6. Allegations made by Mr. Higgins, TD and
25 Mr. Flanagan, TD, in the course of debate in Dail
26 Eireann."
27
28 Now we have already had information, Mr. Donaldson, that
29 Mr. Higgins was not interviewed either. He made sort of
30 similar references, well something similar to you, but he
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 94
1 wasn't investigated either, or asked for a statement.
2
3 Now, paragraph 6: "Brief summary of terrorists incidents
4 where collusion is alleged and facts established during the
5 initial investigation in respect of each incident referred
6 to.
7
8 "6.1. Murder of four RUC officers in bomb explosion at
9 Killeen 20th May 1985.
10 6.2. Murder of Lord and Lady Gibson -- bomb explosion --
11 Killeen 25th April 1987.
12 6.3. Murder of the Hanna family -- bomb explosion,
13 Killeen -- 27th July 1988.
14 6.4. Murder of RUC officers -- Chief Superintendent Breen
15 and Superintendent Bob Buchanan -- 20th March 1989.
16 6.5. Murder of Tom Oliver -- 19th July 1991.
17
18 "7. Investigations and analysis into allegations contained
19 in "Bandit country" -- interview with Mr. Toby Harnden in
20 this regard.
21
22 "8. Second edition of Bandit Country: The IRA and South
23 Armagh by Toby Harnden.
24
25 "9. Investigation and analysis into allegations contained
26 in the Kevin Myers' article."
27
28 So, as you can see, this is a very detailed investigation
29 being carried out by the Garda in the south.
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 95
1 Then it goes on:
2
3 "10. Antecedent history, career, profile -- Sergeant
4 Finbarr Hickey -- involvement in passport
5 irregularities.
6
7 "11. Recipients of false passports."
8
9 It mentions the recipients of those.
10
11 "12. Charges preferred against Hickey" and one other
12 matter.
13
14 "13. Career profile and other relevant issues -- Ex
15 Detective Sergeant Leo Colton.
16
17 And it looks at his service record. It looks at
18 proceedings in respect of allegations of breaches of Garda
19 Sergeant Colton -- 1990
20
21 And I think finally, we have "Career, profile, retirement
22 and other relevant issues -- Ex Detective Sergeant Owen
23 Corrigan." That's at paragraph 14.
24
25 His service record, overview, disciplinary proceedings
26 against Sergeant Corrigan in '88 and '89. Criminal
27 investigations into allegations of false pretences against
28 D/Sergeant Corrigan.
29
30 "Transfer order to SDU 1989 and interviews with ex
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 96
1 Detective Sergeant Corrigan and ex-Sergeant Colton."
2
3 And then there is a summary.
4
5 Mr. Donaldson, you would not have seen this report before,
6 I take it, it was presented to the Government, and you will
7 see from that report that Mr. Corrigan is not the only
8 person that was included --
9 A. Indeed.
10 423 Q. -- in this very substantial investigation. Now, that
11 investigation was going on during the year, or must have
12 commenced at some stage during the year that you had,
13 between the first time you mentioned Mr. Corrigan in the
14 House of Commons and when you mentioned him again in
15 December 2000, this particular investigation was going on,
16 and you say that you were never approached or interviewed
17 in relation to Mr. Corrigan, or indeed I presume in
18 relation to anybody else? Were you interviewed in relation
19 to Fulton?
20 A. No.
21 424 Q. Kevin Fulton?
22 A. No.
23 425 Q. The report itself, I think, was produced in May 2000 -- May
24 2001 -- sorry, on the 11th April 2000, it says there -- the
25 direction was given. In any event, 2001 this report came
26 out. Now, if somebody, at any stage, had interviewed you
27 in the intervening period during 2000 up to May 2001, if
28 any of the police authorities had interviewed you and asked
29 you about the allegations that you had made and had
30 undertaken specifically an investigation into those
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 97
1 allegations made by Mr. Fulton against Mr. Corrigan, would
2 that have satisfied you in your call for a public
3 investigation into the deaths of Breen and Buchanan? Would
4 it have partly satisfied you?
5 A. I had reached the stage where I felt that the only way to
6 deal with this properly across a range of incidents that
7 had occurred was an independent public inquiry. I am
8 afraid I would not have had the same level of confidence
9 that I have in this inquiry. And I think that is borne out
10 and justified in terms of the fact that at no time was I
11 approached about the inquiry by the Garda, at no time was I
12 advised of the findings. No one from the Irish Government
13 made any attempt to talk to either myself or my colleagues
14 about these findings, with the result that we pursued the
15 call for an independent inquiry at Weston Park, and
16 following the appointment of Judge Cory, we awaited the
17 outcome of his further investigation. So I think the
18 answer, on balance, is no.
19 426 Q. I accept what you are saying, that in the relation to the
20 investigation into the deaths of Breen and Buchanan, and
21 you have seen the guards were equally concerned about
22 allegations of collusion, that may have stood, but I am
23 considering what about Mr. Corrigan's position? Because,
24 if there had been any investigation, even at that stage,
25 and Mr. Corrigan had been given the opportunity of clearing
26 himself at that stage, we wouldn't be here today
27 investigating this particular thing, eleven years
28 afterwards, or ten years afterwards?
29 A. I expect that Judge Cory would have taken that into account
30 in coming to his decision.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 98
1 427 Q. Judge Cory didn't speak to Mr. Corrigan. In fact, Judge
2 Cory's report was produced in October 2003. And in fact
3 there is another matter: Judge Cory referred to the Kevin
4 Fulton statement, but he also -- and I'd like to just put
5 that up on the screen for the moment, please, Mr. Mills,
6 and I'd like you to comment, Mr. Donaldson, to see if there
7 is any -- was there any addition made to that statement by
8 Mr. Fulton. What he told on the 9th September 2003, what
9 he told Judge Cory was as follows:
10
11 "In 1979, I enlisted in the British Army. Within months
12 of my posting, I was recruited by a British intelligence
13 agency to act as an agent. In this capacity, I became a
14 member of the Provisional IRA.
15
16 "On one occasion in the late 1980s, I was with my senior
17 IRA commander Joseph Patrick Blair and another individual
18 in my car. I knew the other individual to be Owen
19 Corrigan, a member of Special Branch of the Gardaí. I was
20 introduced by Blair to Corrigan. I knew that Corrigan, who
21 was stationed at Dundalk, was passing information to the
22 Provisional IRA.
23
24 "I was in Dundalk on the day of the ambush of
25 Superintendent Buchanan and Chief Superintendent Breen. I
26 am aware that after the ambush took place, Joseph Patrick
27 Blair was told by a member of the IRA that Sergeant
28 Corrigan had telephoned the Provisional IRA to tell them
29 that Officers Breen and Buchanan were at the Dundalk
30 Station.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 99
1
2 "I should add that I know nothing about the murder of Lord
3 Justice and Lady Gibson.
4
5 "I have read this statement..."
6
7 Now, does that correlate to what he told you or has he
8 expanded in any way in that?
9 A. No, that's a fairly accurate summary of what he said to me.
10 428 Q. He doesn't say in that that he met, that there was a
11 conversation the day of the murders about Blair -- with
12 Blair, I mean Mr. Collins?
13 A. No, he says that "I am aware that after the ambush took
14 place my senior IRA commander was told by a member of PIRA
15 that Garda B had telephoned to the Provisional IRA to tell
16 them that Officers Breen and Buchanan were at the Dundalk
17 Station."
18 429 Q. Yes, so that correlates to what he told -- but there is an
19 addition: you said that he described a tip-off on the day
20 in question.
21 A. And that was the word he used to me, yes.
22 430 Q. In fact I think that's exactly -- that's what he has told
23 in his formal statement to the Tribunal. He has referred
24 to a conversation --
25 A. I haven't seen that statement.
26 431 Q. The Weston Park -- Judge Cory, I might add as well, he --
27 Judge Cory relied on the Kevin Fulton statement, and he
28 also relied on three intelligence reports which he referred
29 to, if I can just find them here now, Mr. Donaldson. At
30 paragraph 2, 156, he referred to, he said that there were
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 100
1 three more recent intelligence reports. The first report,
2 he said:
3 "Let me turn to intelligence reports. The intelligence
4 report received within days and the early weeks following
5 the murders all suggest that PIRA members committed the
6 murders without relying upon any information that the
7 Gardaí or its employers could have supplied."
8 And that seems to, I presume that the Tribunal has seen
9 this because there are indications that certainly we have
10 intelligence that suggests that roads were covered and that
11 the PIRA were very well organised for this particular
12 ambush.
13
14 He then goes on to say: "On the other side of the ledger
15 there are three more recent intelligence reports to be
16 considered. The first received some two years after the
17 killings speak of information passed on by telephone from a
18 woman working at the Dundalk Station which led to the
19 murder of the officers. This report is ungraded."
20 So that's a report he considered at the time.
21
22 He said then: "As a result, it would not be impossible but
23 it would be difficult if there were standing alone to rely
24 upon it as constituting evidence of collusion. The second
25 report was received by the Gardaí many years after the
26 shooting and it speaks of a fruitful contact in the Gardaí
27 who passed on information that facilitated the murder of
28 Judge Gibson, the shooting of two RUC officers after their
29 visit to the Dundalk Station. I must note that this report
30 is based on double hearsay."
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 101
1
2 Now, would it surprise you to learn that in fact the
3 Tribunal has now ascertained, in evidence, that that
4 particular report was proximate to the murders; it wasn't
5 years later, as Judge Cory seems to believe, and in
6 addition, there were two other reports that don't appear to
7 have been presented to him. So there is an inaccuracy
8 there that has been discovered by the Tribunal all right.
9 I am told by My Friend that they were, in which case I
10 stand corrected. But in any event, Judge Cory is
11 inaccurate in that and that has been established by the
12 Tribunal that those intelligence reports were near the time
13 of the murders. And he then talks about a third report
14 received more than a decade after the ambush and it speaks
15 of an administrator based somewhere in the Republic who
16 arranged meetings with Garda and RUC officers who provided
17 PIRA with information. And that received a grade of high.
18 But it seems from the evidence before the Tribunal that
19 that was not possible, that particular piece of
20 information.
21
22 So, he then adds in the Fulton statement. So we now have
23 three intelligence reports and the Kevin Fulton statement.
24 And he then considered that it was important to hold a
25 public inquiry in this case. So -- so, were you aware, at
26 the time of the Cory Report -- you would have been aware
27 that there were other matters contained in that report as
28 well as the Fulton one?
29 A. I have read the report, yes.
30 432 Q. And at the time of -- was there -- if you had been
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 102
1 questioned, for example, about the alleged participation of
2 Mr. Corrigan between the date of the Weston Park Agreement,
3 in July 2001, and the date of the Cory Report, in October
4 2003, and Mr. Corrigan was able to satisfactorily -- been
5 given the opportunity of giving a satisfactory explanation
6 for allegations being made about him, would that have
7 changed the mix when it came to Judge Cory?
8 A. That is supposition and I really can't make a judgement
9 based on that. It would depend on the credibility of
10 Mr. Corrigan's success in persuading the Garda that he was
11 not guilty of what had been alleged. Of course I would
12 have given due consideration. The fact is, I have never
13 seen the report produced by the Garda.
14 433 Q. Well, isn't it true that once the statement was made in the
15 House of Commons, the first statement on the 13th April
16 2000, that set in train a series of events that was
17 predicated by, if you like, people in authority. You made
18 a statement, various reports and investigations started
19 out, there were investigations, as we have seen, the Garda
20 were carrying out investigations, there was the Weston Park
21 Agreement, there was the Cory Report, and then there was
22 the decision that there would be a public investigation.
23 Now, isn't it fair to say that at no time along the line
24 would Mr. Corrigan have been able to clear his name because
25 of the domino effect of, if you like, bureaucracy taking
26 over?
27 A. Well, I don't know what opportunity the Garda afforded to
28 Mr. Corrigan during the course of their inquiry to clear
29 his name, as it were, and therefore I can't comment on
30 that. From my perspective, as a public representative, I
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 103
1 was very clear that I could not see, even if there was
2 activity going on, I could not see that these matters were
3 being given the attention that they deserved, and therefore
4 I pursued the call for a public inquiry, indeed to the
5 point where at Weston Park we secured the agreement of the
6 British and Irish governments and the political parties to
7 pursue the matter further.
8 434 Q. And from the time that you originally made your speech to
9 the time of the Weston Park Agreement, there had been
10 nothing had happened that had changed your intention?
11 A. No.
12 435 Q. Or your attitude?
13 A. No.
14 436 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Donaldson.
15 A. That you.
16
17 CHAIRMAN: Mr. Donaldson. I am very grateful to you for
18 coming to give evidence today. You were under no
19 obligation at all to do so and you kindly did. Your
20 evidence has been of great assistance to the Tribunal and I
21 am very grateful to you and I hope it will be an
22 encouragement to anybody else who hasn't given evidence to
23 feel that they can still come forward and offer themselves.
24 Thank you very much indeed.
25
26 THE WITNESS THEN WITHDREW.
27
28 MR. HAYES: We have one further witness for today,
29 Chairman. First of all, I think given the hour, and
30 secondly, there was a further matter which you mentioned to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 104
1 me over lunch time that I think requires some small further
2 investigation, and I think it's hoped that he might give
3 his evidence next Wednesday morning, if that was
4 convenient.
5
6 CHAIRMAN: I think it might be prudent if we arrange to sit
7 at half past ten on Wednesday.
8
9 MR. HAYES: I think it would suit him, in fact, better to
10 give his evidence at eleven; he has to travel here.
11
12 CHAIRMAN: It would mean we'll sit a little bit later.
13
14 MR. HAYES: I don't think his evidence will take much more
15 than twenty minutes so I don't think it will impinge on the
16 rest of the day.
17
18 CHAIRMAN: Very good. Tuesday morning at eleven.
19
20 THE TRIBUNAL ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, 13TH DECEMBER 2011 AT
21 11 A.M. 22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 1
' 98:8, 102:4 absolute [2] - 64:23, afternoon [4] - 34:6, 49:8, 87:5, 98:24, 98:26, 2005 [3] - 18:13, 84:3, 64:30 67:8, 81:4 99:13, 100:12, 101:14 '88 [1] - 95:26 85:5 absolutely [7] - 27:7, afterwards [2] - 97:28 Analysis [1] - 93:7 '89 [1] - 95:26 2006 [1] - 44:28 28:8, 33:9, 48:23, 49:7, age [1] - 2:11 analysis [2] - 94:18, '94 [1] - 57:20 2008 [1] - 67:16 50:9, 91:30 agencies [1] - 14:6 94:25 '99 [1] - 84:28 2011 [2] - 1:1, 104:20 abuses [1] - 63:17 agency [2] - 47:12, 98:13 ancient [1] - 21:19 'Mooch' [17] - 16:11, 20th [6] - 10:13, 14:14, accept [10] - 37:8, 63:20, agenda [2] - 63:26, 64:3 Anderson [1] - 91:17 17:2, 46:6, 46:20, 47:6, 37:15, 91:24, 94:9, 67:21, 67:23, 68:10, agent [13] - 5:20, 6:5, 6:9, answer [17] - 8:12, 14:2, 47:8, 48:2, 48:7, 48:16, 94:15 78:6, 78:8, 78:22, 80:2, 7:9, 7:10, 8:9, 26:2, 18:10, 22:24, 28:16, 49:16, 50:20, 51:21, 23rd [1] - 11:11 97:19 46:1, 58:26, 61:18, 29:12, 29:13, 29:14, 51:23, 51:28, 57:23, 25th [2] - 11:10, 94:11 accepted [3] - 29:19, 68:29, 87:3, 98:13 37:20, 40:3, 40:5, 40:7, 60:11, 61:4 27 [1] - 73:22 29:23, 38:7 agents [1] - 87:5 47:29, 76:1, 76:25, 27th [1] - 94:13 access [8] - 11:26, 29:19, aggrieved [1] - 20:16 77:2, 97:18 1 29th [2] - 84:3, 85:5 52:11, 52:17, 52:19, agitating [2] - 84:8, 84:23 answered [4] - 11:3, 52:24, 54:10, 88:4 ago [4] - 67:15, 72:1, 28:29, 41:6, 76:26 1 [1] - 93:14 accordance [1] - 20:12 72:8, 84:17 antecedent [1] - 95:3 10 [1] - 95:3 3 according [1] - 53:12 agree [20] - 20:8, 20:22, Antrim [1] - 6:7 10th [2] - 30:14, 93:18 3 [1] - 93:16 accordingly [1] - 85:6 20:25, 21:25, 21:28, anxious [4] - 33:2, 33:3, 11 [2] - 95:7, 104:21 30 [1] - 78:30 Accordingly [1] - 85:9 27:9, 31:25, 33:6, 53:1, 33:5, 84:20 11th [1] - 96:24 30th [1] - 48:11 account [4] - 31:6, 34:14, 60:6, 63:27, 66:16, apart [1] - 82:1 12 [2] - 1:2, 95:11 31 [1] - 73:13 54:6, 97:29 68:14, 68:24, 74:10, apologies [1] - 83:14 13 [1] - 95:14 accounts [1] - 4:18 77:26, 81:8, 81:9, apologising [1] - 80:3 13th [8] - 9:29, 64:23, 4 accuracy [5] - 26:16, 81:13, 81:18 apology [1] - 20:14 79:24, 89:5, 91:19, 32:23, 36:13, 39:14, agreed [2] - 16:17, 16:21 apparent [1] - 32:7 91:21, 93:22, 102:15 4 [1] - 93:17 39:17 agreement [2] - 62:22, appear [4] - 19:27, 20:5, 13TH [1] - 104:20 40 [1] - 55:27 accurate [7] - 31:6, 34:12, 103:5 81:5, 101:6 14 [1] - 95:23 34:16, 37:30, 56:23, Agreement [4] - 4:6, appointment [1] - 97:16 156 [1] - 99:30 5 67:5, 99:9 102:2, 102:21, 103:9 appreciate [3] - 53:23, 1689 [2] - 21:16, 22:25 5 [1] - 93:19 accused [1] - 16:16 Ahern [1] - 30:26 58:10, 70:23 18 [1] - 11:28 5.5 [1] - 93:21 acknowledges [1] - 75:23 aid [1] - 14:6 approach [1] - 89:28 18th [2] - 69:20, 70:14 5.6 [1] - 93:24 acquainted [1] - 77:19 Ainsworth [1] - 73:17 approached [9] - 5:2, 5:7, 1970s [1] - 77:29 51 [1] - 56:14 act [4] - 8:24, 24:19, aka [1] - 5:17 14:30, 15:13, 43:23, 1979 [1] - 98:11 25:13, 98:13 Alan [4] - 18:29, 19:23, 43:24, 45:1, 96:16, 1980s [2] - 77:30, 98:16 acted [1] - 20:12 72:23, 72:25 97:11 1985 [2] - 93:5, 94:9 6 action [2] - 4:28, 10:25 alia [1] - 14:29 appropriate [5] - 14:23, 1987 [2] - 11:10, 94:11 6 [1] - 94:3 actionable [1] - 70:24 alive [1] - 7:26 33:18, 71:22, 77:5, 77:7 1988 [4] - 11:12, 55:3, 6.1 [1] - 94:8 actions [3] - 12:20, 12:22, allegation [16] - 20:26, April [14] - 9:30, 11:10, 57:20, 94:13 6.2 [1] - 94:10 59:16 20:27, 22:1, 22:5, 23:1, 14:27, 64:23, 69:20, 1989 [11] - 3:28, 10:14, 6.3 [1] - 94:12 Active [2] - 57:30, 58:8 31:13, 35:4, 53:4, 70:14, 79:25, 89:6, 26:1, 26:11, 37:15, 6.4 [1] - 94:14 activities [6] - 14:7, 18:7, 67:14, 71:1, 71:5, 71:7, 91:19, 91:21, 93:22, 52:4, 52:5, 52:7, 54:16, 6.5 [1] - 94:16 45:27, 47:28, 86:6, 71:9, 76:18, 88:22, 92:1 94:11, 96:24, 102:15 94:15, 95:30 60 [3] - 53:18, 53:20, 86:20 Allegation [1] - 93:3 Area [1] - 93:5 1990 [2] - 70:23, 95:19 54:28 activity [2] - 8:28, 103:2 allegations [35] - 8:28, area [5] - 3:5, 3:7, 5:3, 1991 [6] - 51:11, 51:13, 62 [1] - 56:3 acts [2] - 12:24 14:10, 15:3, 16:25, 6:10, 46:19 51:20, 93:5, 94:16 64 [2] - 56:29, 57:19 add [2] - 99:2, 99:26 17:13, 17:14, 24:3, areas [2] - 5:23, 78:10 1994 [1] - 3:28 addition [3] - 98:7, 99:19, 29:6, 31:5, 41:29, 43:1, argued [1] - 37:5 1997 [1] - 2:8 7 101:6 59:30, 66:9, 71:18, arisen [2] - 8:28, 18:18 1999 [6] - 5:25, 6:1, additional [2] - 5:9, 31:10 76:4, 76:12, 76:28, arises [1] - 91:10 43:14, 82:5, 84:20, 7 [1] - 94:18 addressed [1] - 70:15 79:11, 79:27, 83:14, arising [1] - 53:27 85:15 adds [1] - 101:22 83:18, 92:18, 93:16, Armagh [13] - 3:4, 3:6, 19th [1] - 94:16 8 adequately [1] - 15:20 93:17, 93:19, 93:21, 4:19, 5:3, 5:5, 5:7, 5:23, 93:24, 94:18, 94:25, 10:29, 11:5, 45:27, 8 [1] - 94:22 adjourn [1] - 33:19 2 ADJOURNED [2] - 33:23, 95:18, 95:27, 96:29, 45:30, 78:2, 94:23 104:20 97:1, 97:22, 102:6 arms [1] - 14:19 2 [3] - 10:17, 93:15, 99:30 9 allegations" [1] - 79:26 Army [7] - 6:5, 12:29, 20 [2] - 60:10, 78:30 administrator [1] - 9 [1] - 94:25 101:15 alleged [10] - 14:7, 26:1, 22:13, 36:22, 58:28, 2000 [24] - 6:1, 9:30, 44:10, 52:23, 54:10, 85:7, 98:11 14:15, 19:28, 30:15, 9TH [1] - 1:1 admissible [1] - 37:6 58:7, 70:26, 94:4, army [4] - 36:16, 36:25, 32:14, 43:14, 44:27, 9th [1] - 98:8 admit [1] - 85:20 102:1, 102:11 36:27, 36:30 64:23, 69:3, 69:21, admitting [1] - 38:9 allegedly [3] - 32:8, 70:14, 79:25, 85:15, A advance [2] - 6:29, 63:26 aroused [1] - 31:4 51:27, 53:5 91:21, 91:24, 92:21, advised [1] - 97:12 arrange [1] - 104:6 A.M [1] - 104:21 alleges [1] - 10:27 93:18, 93:22, 96:15, Affairs [2] - 14:5, 14:9 arranged [3] - 5:10, abduction [3] - 51:4, alone [8] - 29:9, 29:26, 96:23, 96:24, 96:27, afforded [1] - 102:27 10:16, 101:16 51:8, 51:9 38:24, 39:2, 39:28, 102:16 afraid [4] - 5:28, 77:8, arrive [1] - 72:13 able [8] - 5:9, 18:10, 33:3, 40:2, 61:20, 100:23 2001 [4] - 96:24, 96:25, 87:2, 97:8 article [6] - 30:13, 30:24, 36:17, 37:17, 56:22, alongside [1] - 14:6 96:27, 102:3 AFTER [1] - 34:1 30:27, 76:3, 93:17, 102:4, 102:24 alternatively [1] - 72:13 94:26 2003 [4] - 17:1, 98:2, aftermath [3] - 3:11, 3:14, above-named [1] - 70:20 90:5 ambush [8] - 47:24, 74:4, AS [8] - 1:2, 2:2, 20:3,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 2
34:1, 34:4, 80:14, 81:2, 74:30, 75:6, 75:12, blacken [1] - 12:19 46:12, 47:18, 49:22, 72:28, 82:13, 82:24, 91:8 75:27, 76:3, 76:6, Blair [26] - 16:11, 16:14, 51:18, 52:28, 63:15, 98:13 ascertain [1] - 25:27 77:12, 83:17, 84:12, 17:2, 46:7, 46:21, 47:6, 64:16, 66:7, 66:17, car [16] - 11:15, 46:18, ascertained [1] - 101:3 84:15, 84:22, 84:27, 47:8, 47:9, 47:11, 48:2, 68:8, 70:22, 73:3, 47:9, 50:21, 51:3, 51:7, aside [2] - 54:3, 54:14 85:1, 85:22, 85:28, 48:7, 48:16, 49:10, 79:22, 82:2, 83:21, 51:12, 51:22, 51:23, ask" [1] - 85:9 86:1, 87:27, 88:19, 50:16, 50:20, 51:21, 86:23, 89:25, 89:27, 51:25, 53:16, 53:24, aspect [2] - 2:20, 50:3 90:23, 90:28, 98:26, 51:23, 51:28, 60:11, 90:7, 90:21, 94:14, 54:9, 79:9, 98:18 aspects [1] - 23:27 99:13, 101:25, 101:26 61:5, 98:17, 98:20, 97:3, 97:20, 98:25, car-park [1] - 51:12 assembly [1] - 54:4 98:27, 99:11, 99:12 98:29, 99:16 cards [1] - 9:8 assertion [1] - 15:14 B Blair's [2] - 49:16, 57:24 Breen's [2] - 18:30, 64:20 care [1] - 72:14 assess [1] - 54:17 Board [1] - 57:9 Brian [3] - 77:13, 77:21, Career [1] - 95:21 background [7] - 5:14, assessment [1] - 40:21 Bob [13] - 2:28, 10:10, 77:23 career [7] - 2:10, 63:2, 6:3, 6:10, 6:12, 6:13, assist [2] - 16:3, 60:20 23:16, 25:28, 38:3, brief [1] - 94:3 70:29, 78:30, 81:6, 36:19, 52:13 assistance [3] - 17:29, 42:22, 46:6, 51:18, bring [2] - 27:26, 28:4 95:3, 95:14 bait [1] - 28:17 72:26, 103:20 52:29, 66:7, 68:8, bringing [3] - 29:24, 41:5, carefully [1] - 63:8 balance [1] - 97:18 Assistant [1] - 73:16 70:22, 94:15 41:8 carried [4] - 16:18, 45:23, balanced [4] - 68:2, 68:3, assisted [4] - 3:21, 12:24, Bomb [4] - 16:10, 16:16, brings [1] - 56:27 92:17, 94:29 68:5, 68:6 18:21, 42:16 16:19, 17:10 Britain [4] - 58:1, 58:3, carry [1] - 58:1 Ballymena [1] - 6:7 assisting [3] - 59:20, bomb [4] - 13:5, 94:8, 58:4, 58:12 carrying [3] - 21:23, 58:7, Banbridge [2] - 86:30, 62:5, 62:6 94:10, 94:12 British [9] - 6:5, 12:29, 102:20 87:1 Associated [1] - 76:9 bombing [4] - 13:30, 21:19, 36:22, 58:28, case [44] - 3:1, 4:10, 10:8, Bandit [6] - 4:16, 10:6, assume [1] - 13:21 17:3, 87:29, 88:4 85:7, 98:11, 98:12, 11:20, 13:23, 14:3, 34:8, 93:16, 94:19, assumed [1] - 53:14 bombs [2] - 85:29 103:6 17:15, 21:7, 23:10, 94:22 assumption [1] - 87:10 bona [1] - 24:23 broad [1] - 31:11 23:19, 27:2, 27:27, Barracks [1] - 55:4 assured [1] - 8:10 book [79] - 4:15, 4:16, broader [2] - 16:5, 28:27 28:1, 28:11, 31:9, 38:3, based [21] - 6:6, 8:22, astonishing [1] - 39:10 4:17, 4:19, 4:21, 4:23, brought [7] - 4:8, 21:6, 38:11, 39:11, 40:27, 20:10, 27:24, 28:21, AT [2] - 1:1, 104:20 4:28, 5:1, 5:10, 5:27, 39:21, 43:17, 88:3, 40:30, 46:17, 52:10, 35:11, 39:2, 39:22, 10:4, 10:27, 15:29, 89:17 54:9, 57:7, 59:27, atrocities [1] - 82:17 39:24, 39:28, 40:1, 19:7, 23:3, 23:9, 23:14, brutal [1] - 71:12 63:23, 65:13, 65:16, attacked [2] - 75:13, 55:15, 55:23, 58:17, 23:20, 23:21, 23:28, Buchanan [46] - 2:25, 67:24, 68:18, 69:6, 75:20 66:28, 68:9, 71:18, 24:1, 31:4, 31:6, 31:11, 2:28, 4:10, 6:15, 10:10, 69:12, 70:30, 80:22, attacks [1] - 58:1 100:30, 101:15, 102:9 31:20, 32:1, 32:23, 10:14, 11:2, 15:25, 86:19, 88:15, 88:27, attained [1] - 11:3 basis [9] - 15:2, 15:14, 32:30, 34:8, 34:9, 23:1, 23:16, 23:19, 89:1, 89:27, 90:11, attempt [1] - 97:13 24:11, 38:23, 52:7, 34:12, 34:13, 34:15, 24:28, 25:29, 31:7, 90:13, 101:9, 101:25 attend [1] - 3:9 52:19, 56:20, 61:21, 34:24, 34:25, 35:3, 31:23, 34:30, 38:4, cases [13] - 13:11, 17:20, attended [3] - 10:16, 79:10 35:30, 36:4, 36:7, 42:15, 42:22, 46:6, 17:25, 18:15, 23:15, 45:15, 61:14 bearing [1] - 15:28 36:14, 37:23, 37:24, 46:12, 47:19, 49:22, 37:6, 38:4, 45:29, attention [3] - 4:12, 4:24, beaten [1] - 75:27 37:30, 38:2, 38:19, 51:18, 52:29, 63:15, 56:21, 78:7, 81:18, 103:3 became [5] - 18:3, 19:5, 38:23, 38:25, 38:28, 66:7, 66:17, 68:8, 81:28, 86:15 attitude [1] - 103:12 26:29, 72:30, 98:13 39:3, 39:4, 39:7, 39:12, 70:22, 73:3, 79:23, cast [1] - 37:23 author [1] - 23:20 become [7] - 6:5, 6:9, 39:14, 39:17, 39:18, 82:2, 83:22, 86:24, catalyst [1] - 39:4 authorities [9] - 15:2, 18:6, 19:7, 26:27, 31:8, 39:25, 39:27, 39:28, 89:16, 89:25, 89:27, catch [1] - 58:7 15:6, 15:13, 16:23, 86:6 39:30, 40:2, 40:5, 40:8, 90:7, 90:21, 94:15, categorically [1] - 17:1 17:14, 88:3, 89:4, BEEN [1] - 2:1 40:17, 40:26, 41:4, 97:3, 97:20, 98:25, caused [1] - 58:10 90:25, 96:28 beer [1] - 75:22 79:7, 81:26, 81:27, 98:29, 99:16 causes [1] - 52:27 authority [2] - 6:11, beg [3] - 58:22, 58:29, 81:29, 84:13, 84:14, building [3] - 76:17, causing [1] - 39:26 102:17 74:29 84:15, 84:18, 85:20, 76:27, 85:29 ceasefire [1] - 3:29 available [6] - 28:5, beginnings [1] - 3:29 85:28, 90:24 bureaucracy [1] - 102:25 ceases [1] - 52:21 31:24, 32:28, 39:23, behalf [2] - 27:14, 80:16 Border [1] - 93:5 business [1] - 25:15 central [1] - 53:5 40:24, 71:6 Belfast [1] - 70:19 border [4] - 12:10, 78:10, BY [6] - 2:1, 20:2, 34:4, certain [2] - 34:15, 43:27 [1] awaited - 97:16 believes [1] - 59:28 87:23, 90:25 80:14, 81:1, 91:8 certainly [8] - 4:2, 43:28, aware [79] - 5:13, 14:2, benefit [7] - 8:5, 26:15, borne [1] - 97:9 16:1, 17:3, 19:5, 19:8, 45:16, 51:19, 72:16, 58:23, 59:2, 68:23, bother [1] - 72:15 19:12, 19:22, 21:13, C 85:25, 90:19, 100:9 76:13, 79:6 bottom [1] - 49:27 22:5, 22:14, 22:19, CHAIRMAN [9] - 1:7, Bertie [1] - 30:25 bow [1] - 78:16 Callan's [1] - 51:22 22:20, 22:22, 24:27, 9:14, 33:16, 80:26, best [3] - 38:27, 68:21, box [1] - 64:27 Camon [4] - 9:28, 32:12, 30:18, 30:19, 30:22, 91:2, 103:17, 104:6, 73:18 Branch [3] - 40:4, 57:20, 92:18, 92:27 30:27, 31:8, 32:7, 104:12, 104:18 better [2] - 26:16, 104:9 Camon-Kirwan [4] - 9:28, 98:19 Chairman [34] - 2:28, 32:10, 36:21, 36:24, 32:12, 92:18, 92:27 between [17] - 11:6, bravely [1] - 78:29 7:24, 7:30, 9:17, 12:17, 37:13, 45:22, 46:14, campaign [5] - 12:25, 14:21, 15:1, 40:19, breaches [1] - 95:18 22:9, 22:19, 23:11, 50:13, 51:5, 54:27, 59:21, 60:20, 78:29, 43:21, 50:20, 53:19, Breen [49] - 2:25, 4:10, 55:1, 56:5, 57:1, 57:5, 33:14, 36:21, 43:27, 60:11, 61:4, 61:19, 6:14, 10:10, 10:16, 82:27 57:8, 59:4, 59:12, 44:19, 45:17, 48:19, 61:24, 62:22, 62:25, 10:23, 11:1, 15:25, campaigner [1] - 5:2 69:24, 69:28, 71:1, 50:8, 53:17, 55:27, 66:26, 78:12, 96:13, 19:2, 19:5, 19:12, cannot [5] - 14:22, 17:11, 71:13, 72:30, 73:7, 56:14, 57:22, 61:9, 102:2 22:30, 23:15, 23:19, 25:1, 41:7, 43:27 73:12, 73:14, 73:16, 69:18, 69:19, 78:23, beyond [1] - 71:7 24:28, 25:28, 31:7, capability [1] - 82:11 73:20, 73:24, 74:1, 79:20, 83:29, 84:1, Bill [2] - 21:16, 63:18 31:22, 34:29, 38:3, capable [1] - 52:25 74:4, 74:6, 74:14, 85:2, 86:25, 87:13, bit [3] - 6:3, 33:19, 104:12 42:15, 42:22, 46:5, capacity [6] - 5:19, 55:12, 74:19, 74:20, 74:22, 89:15, 90:1, 91:5, 92:6,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 3
103:29 62:15, 76:12, 79:21, competence [4] - 55:13, consideration [8] - 6:9, copy [4] - 9:30, 46:25, challenge [1] - 40:9 83:23, 83:24 55:20, 55:21, 59:8 41:9, 65:12, 65:29, 69:17 challenged [1] - 39:18 collusion [48] - 11:6, competent [2] - 56:7, 66:6, 67:1, 102:12 correct [45] - 2:8, 2:9, challenging [1] - 68:4 11:24, 12:22, 14:10, 57:3 considerations [1] - 8:30 2:23, 2:24, 2:28, 4:6, changed [2] - 102:7, 16:6, 23:2, 24:27, 26:3, competition [1] - 78:17 considered [5] - 6:23, 4:7, 5:18, 13:4, 16:12, 103:10 26:12, 28:1, 29:20, completely [6] - 12:5, 41:12, 100:16, 100:20, 16:13, 21:11, 21:12, character [1] - 59:5 30:7, 31:5, 31:28, 33:1, 36:3, 39:13, 40:5, 64:1, 101:24 21:17, 21:21, 23:3, charge [2] - 57:20, 57:21 33:4, 33:7, 33:8, 35:4, 67:20 considering [3] - 27:21, 23:29, 24:2, 28:22, charged [1] - 11:21 38:9, 40:19, 40:21, completeness [1] - 13:29 76:23, 97:23 30:2, 31:14, 32:21, charges [1] - 95:11 40:29, 41:26, 42:10, comprehensive [1] - consistent [1] - 50:10 33:2, 34:9, 34:10, check [1] - 48:23 44:10, 52:23, 53:19, 92:16 consistently [1] - 37:5 34:19, 35:17, 35:19, checked [5] - 5:27, 72:6, 61:2, 61:6, 61:10, compromise [4] - 35:26, Constabulary [7] - 32:14, 36:10, 37:27, 43:3, 91:23, 92:6, 92:8 62:25, 66:24, 68:15, 36:28, 37:2, 37:7 32:17, 45:6, 54:17, 43:16, 54:20, 55:6, checking [1] - 24:16 79:30, 82:9, 82:30, compromised [1] - 8:19 54:24, 73:27, 77:17 59:16, 64:14, 69:14, Chief [22] - 10:9, 10:15, 83:3, 83:7, 83:12, compulsive [1] - 56:15 constant [1] - 78:5 72:5, 73:1, 74:26, 10:23, 11:1, 11:8, 83:15, 88:23, 88:27, con [1] - 56:16 constituency [5] - 2:7, 78:13, 80:23, 81:21, 11:25, 22:30, 24:28, 88:29, 92:19, 94:4, concern [30] - 4:4, 4:9, 2:30, 3:1, 10:15, 87:1 82:3, 87:9 31:22, 34:29, 46:11, 97:22, 100:24 4:11, 10:24, 12:22, constituent [1] - 89:16 corrected [2] - 92:11, 47:18, 63:14, 64:16, Collusion [1] - 93:3 21:6, 32:22, 38:1, constituents [2] - 13:2, 101:10 64:19, 66:17, 70:21, Colton [3] - 95:15, 95:19, 39:14, 40:12, 40:28, 13:9 correlate [1] - 99:7 79:22, 88:2, 90:26, 96:1 52:8, 52:27, 53:27, constitute [1] - 29:20 correlated [1] - 30:21 94:14, 98:25 coming [4] - 24:18, 29:9, 54:5, 55:29, 56:1, constituting [1] - 100:24 correlates [2] - 51:2, Christian [1] - 67:11 97:30, 103:18 56:17, 56:24, 58:13, consult [1] - 88:25 99:18 Chronicle [1] - 87:1 commander [2] - 98:17, 58:19, 58:20, 59:13, consultant [1] - 14:6 correspondence [2] - 99:14 CID [2] - 55:3, 55:4 59:18, 62:14, 64:16, contact [7] - 8:2, 52:21, 70:10, 85:13 cipher [2] - 54:23, 73:21 commenced [1] - 96:12 71:16, 71:20, 84:28, 54:17, 61:15, 61:19, Corrigan [108] - 2:22, circles [2] - 3:16, 19:20 comment [9] - 14:22, 87:17 81:15, 100:26 10:21, 11:26, 14:11, 14:24, 23:17, 56:12, circulated [1] - 12:4 concerned [11] - 12:26, contacted [1] - 10:30 14:30, 19:4, 20:6, 20:7, 56:13, 63:19, 91:15, 20:16, 24:9, 25:7, circumstance [1] - 22:5 34:14, 39:11, 40:3, contained [14] - 23:14, 98:6, 102:29 26:26, 26:28, 27:8, circumstances [8] - 3:18, 40:6, 40:16, 41:11, 23:21, 30:27, 31:11, 17:26, 18:17, 29:4, comments [8] - 6:30, 59:10, 82:11, 97:21 37:29, 64:7, 80:1, 27:29, 28:9, 28:17, 36:28, 42:21, 71:6, 84:4 13:11, 21:3, 65:30, concerning [1] - 92:19 81:26, 92:27, 93:16, 29:1, 29:6, 29:7, 30:1, 81:29, 88:25, 91:16, 30:9, 30:10, 35:21, claim [7] - 37:14, 70:20, Concerning [1] - 93:3 93:17, 94:18, 94:25, 86:23, 86:25, 86:27, 91:27 concerns [12] - 3:25, 101:27 41:22, 41:23, 42:14, commission [1] - 12:24 42:20, 44:2, 46:20, 87:11, 87:14 4:25, 12:2, 13:2, 14:28, content [6] - 8:11, 8:13, Commissioner [1] - 46:23, 47:9, 47:11, claimed [1] - 87:4 18:5, 19:2, 19:5, 19:12, 20:29, 23:16, 79:17, 73:16 47:25, 48:17, 48:28, clear [19] - 12:17, 18:3, 83:3, 83:20 84:26 51:24, 51:27, 52:3, 23:16, 24:18, 46:1, committed [2] - 63:17, concluded [1] - 29:18 contention [2] - 33:1, 52:16, 53:5, 53:10, 47:5, 48:23, 49:7, 62:3, 100:5 concludes [1] - 79:29 38:17 53:15, 53:19, 57:23, 71:8, 81:20, 84:7, Committee [2] - 36:26, conclusion [11] - 20:30, contents [1] - 93:12 60:11, 61:4, 62:21, 84:25, 88:20, 88:21, 37:12 27:24, 29:9, 29:15, context [3] - 11:30, 63:14, 63:25, 64:13, 89:11, 102:24, 102:28, Commons [59] - 2:19, 29:25, 29:26, 33:13, 83:12, 91:14 64:27, 65:4, 65:18, 103:1 2:27, 6:30, 9:21, 9:23, 41:6, 56:28, 79:20, CONTINUATION [1] - 9:26, 13:12, 13:28, 65:20, 65:24, 66:15, clearing [1] - 97:25 79:21 34:3 14:28, 15:15, 16:10, 68:7, 68:15, 69:10, clearly [4] - 14:20, 52:2, conclusions [3] - 29:18, continue [2] - 4:14, 14:22 16:26, 17:18, 19:21, 69:24, 72:14, 72:19, 52:3, 53:28 40:25, 41:15 CONTINUED [1] - 34:1 20:19, 21:5, 21:29, 73:8, 73:17, 73:30, client [20] - 41:21, 42:8, conduct [1] - 28:30 continued [3] - 3:26, 74:3, 74:6, 74:14, 43:4, 44:1, 50:21, 22:11, 22:15, 23:5, conducted [4] - 10:4, 4:11, 58:26 24:12, 26:27, 27:8, 74:20, 75:2, 75:10, 50:25, 51:24, 51:27, 23:8, 23:12, 32:13 continuing [3] - 14:20, 27:15, 30:1, 30:22, 75:12, 75:20, 75:27, 53:28, 54:1, 54:9, confidence [2] - 27:16, 17:27, 52:19 36:26, 37:5, 38:25, 76:4, 76:5, 76:12, 54:14, 63:10, 64:22, 97:8 Continuity [1] - 14:4 41:28, 42:17, 42:18, 76:19, 76:28, 77:19, 67:6, 67:8, 70:21, confirm [2] - 7:7, 54:21 contrary [1] - 71:15 58:15, 62:14, 62:25, 77:21, 77:22, 78:27, 70:25, 70:27, 71:11 confirmed [3] - 7:8, 32:2, contribution [1] - 2:17 63:14, 64:18, 64:29, 79:9, 79:12, 79:21, client's [4] - 51:30, 53:23, 36:11 convenient [1] - 104:4 65:4, 66:1, 66:13, 79:30, 81:23, 82:10, 70:28, 71:16 confirms [1] - 62:13 conversation [6] - 7:20, 67:18, 68:18, 69:27, 92:24, 95:23, 95:26, close [1] - 14:20 connected [1] - 52:30 43:21, 46:7, 51:12, 72:21, 76:20, 76:29, 95:28, 96:1, 96:7, closely [1] - 30:20 connection [5] - 2:25, 99:11, 99:24 79:12, 79:24, 79:28, 96:17, 97:1, 97:25, closer [1] - 4:29 22:27, 35:12, 84:3, convicted [6] - 14:24, 80:21, 81:30, 91:15, 98:1, 98:19, 98:20, COFFEY [1] - 80:8 89:28 21:30, 22:7, 22:12, 91:20, 91:26, 92:2, 98:28, 102:2, 102:4, coincidence [1] - 76:11 connections [1] - 53:3 22:16, 55:17 93:22, 96:14, 102:15 102:24, 102:28 colleagues [1] - 97:13 conscience [1] - 18:9 convictions [1] - 16:6 company [1] - 47:8 corrigan [1] - 96:13 Collins [5] - 49:17, 49:19, conscious [1] - 33:14 convince [1] - 53:30 Company [1] - 69:21 Corrigan's [11] - 10:24, 49:24, 50:14, 99:12 consequence [1] - 67:21 convinced [7] - 36:15, comparable [2] - 77:27, 24:11, 47:26, 53:3, colluded [7] - 20:23, consider [8] - 6:21, 36:18, 36:20, 37:12, 78:4 53:11, 64:17, 66:3, 31:14, 59:20, 59:26, 33:12, 65:12, 66:3, 54:2, 54:12, 62:11 comparison [1] - 78:12 69:14, 82:5, 97:23, 60:1, 63:14, 83:18 68:7, 80:3, 80:5 cooperation [3] - 14:21, compensation [3] - 102:10 colludes [1] - 42:3 considerable [3] - 48:25, 36:21, 89:1 83:30, 84:9, 84:21 corroborate [1] - 38:27 colluding [6] - 53:4, 58:6, 58:10 cops [2] - 60:13, 61:7
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 4 corroboration [2] - 25:6, Céilí [4] - 51:22, 51:24, destruction [2] - 11:30, document [1] - 69:19 98:29, 99:16, 100:18, 25:10 60:11, 61:5 12:6 documents [1] - 29:18 100:29 Cory [19] - 29:17, 29:25, detail [13] - 23:21, 25:27, domain [13] - 21:7, 24:12, during [16] - 10:11, 18:7, 64:4, 64:5, 64:6, 97:16, D 26:8, 34:28, 41:15, 27:6, 27:26, 28:5, 18:11, 22:26, 23:18, 97:29, 98:1, 98:3, 98:9, 44:10, 46:4, 47:6, 42:23, 55:24, 63:1, 53:20, 70:29, 80:19, 99:26, 99:27, 101:5, D/Sergeant [1] - 95:28 48:25, 48:29, 49:6, 63:6, 63:22, 67:15, 82:27, 91:26, 92:15, 101:10, 101:26, 102:3, Dail [1] - 93:25 52:12, 81:30 79:14 94:4, 96:11, 96:12, 102:7, 102:21 Daily [1] - 4:16 detailed [3] - 49:4, 49:5, Dominic [4] - 74:7, 74:10, 96:27, 102:28 Cory's [1] - 98:2 dairy [1] - 5:28 94:28 74:20, 74:24 During [1] - 93:5 Council [1] - 22:13 damages [1] - 76:6 detain [1] - 91:5 domino [1] - 102:25 duties [1] - 21:23 counsel [5] - 48:21, damaging [1] - 51:30 detective [5] - 36:11, Donaldson [79] - 1:5, 2:4, duty [1] - 63:21 48:24, 48:26, 49:3, danger [1] - 87:7 39:12, 40:4, 40:10, 41:3 2:6, 9:15, 9:27, 19:30, 50:10 data [1] - 5:29 Detective [18] - 10:21, 20:7, 23:7, 24:21, E country [2] - 3:13, 94:19 date [4] - 5:29, 45:12, 14:29, 20:5, 20:15, 25:21, 26:10, 26:15, e-mails [1] - 69:30 Country [5] - 4:17, 10:6, 102:2, 102:3 28:30, 32:2, 32:19, 26:26, 27:4, 27:29, 34:8, 93:16, 94:22 dated [2] - 69:20, 85:5 41:23, 42:20, 46:19, 28:16, 29:5, 29:11, early [9] - 5:25, 5:30, 6:1, 43:14, 44:27, 44:28, County [6] - 5:23, 6:7, dates [1] - 62:19 47:21, 47:24, 52:16, 29:29, 30:28, 31:18, 11:29, 13:30, 46:19, David [1] - 30:25 55:3, 57:19, 95:15, 32:22, 33:2, 34:6, 34:7, 85:15, 88:17, 100:4 51:6 day-to-day [1] - 52:7 95:22, 96:1 36:23, 38:7, 39:10, easier [1] - 6:12 edition [2] - 70:18, 94:22 couple [1] - 23:6 days [3] - 53:18, 53:20, deter [1] - 15:22 40:3, 40:17, 41:20, effect [8] - 19:9, 28:17, course [33] - 3:3, 3:7, 100:4 determination [1] - 15:23 42:12, 43:3, 44:30, 3:14, 3:27, 5:5, 13:10, deal [5] - 9:26, 11:10, determine [7] - 25:13, 46:26, 47:30, 48:20, 42:13, 71:2, 77:22, 23:18, 24:6, 40:8, 82:12, 92:12, 97:6 25:18, 26:20, 42:26, 49:13, 49:28, 51:1, 78:23, 78:28, 102:25 47:16, 52:16, 58:20, dealing [1] - 24:20 42:27, 43:5, 67:30 52:1, 53:16, 54:22, effectively [2] - 41:22, 59:9, 61:18, 62:16, dealings [1] - 70:28 determined [1] - 88:14 54:29, 56:29, 60:22, 71:24 65:6, 65:11, 66:5, dealt [4] - 11:13, 12:3, determining [2] - 8:21, 61:22, 62:8, 63:7, effort [1] - 58:6 67:26, 68:7, 68:28, 18:15, 55:4 39:5 64:24, 67:8, 69:20, eighties [1] - 78:11 70:28, 70:29, 79:5, dear [1] - 70:17 diary [1] - 5:29 69:26, 69:29, 70:4, Eireann [1] - 93:26 82:19, 83:5, 85:4, death [1] - 29:3 die [2] - 3:22, 10:11 70:15, 72:8, 73:21, either [10] - 12:24, 15:1, 86:18, 90:16, 92:16, deaths [3] - 11:24, 97:3, died [3] - 10:23, 67:16, 76:19, 77:17, 78:19, 25:5, 38:16, 72:12, 93:25, 102:11, 102:28 97:20 77:13 79:2, 80:6, 80:12, 76:14, 92:14, 93:29, 94:1, 97:13 court [3] - 21:11, 27:20, debate [1] - 93:25 difference [3] - 64:20, 80:16, 81:4, 81:6, 76:5 decade [1] - 101:14 64:21, 66:26 85:14, 90:30, 91:6, elaborated [2] - 46:4, 48:28 cousin [1] - 87:24 December [8] - 14:14, different [3] - 28:24, 92:6, 92:29, 93:21, cousins [1] - 3:5 14:27, 52:4, 52:5, 52:7, 49:26, 56:28 93:28, 96:5, 98:6, elaborating [1] - 48:9 99:29, 103:14, 103:17 [2] cover [1] - 70:23 54:16, 91:24, 96:15 difficult [4] - 68:4, 77:28, elected - 27:12, 27:15 covered [4] - 4:21, 34:13, DECEMBER [2] - 1:1, 78:9, 100:23 DONALDSON [2] - 2:1, electronic [1] - 5:28 34:3 34:24, 100:10 104:20 diminish [2] - 3:25, 40:28 element [3] - 40:26, 41:1, done [8] - 20:8, 21:2, covering [1] - 75:26 decide [2] - 42:29, 43:11 direct [1] - 87:17 53:8 59:15, 65:24, 66:1, crash [1] - 77:13 decided [4] - 6:8, 65:26, direction [1] - 96:25 elements [5] - 34:15, 66:21, 68:24, 68:26 37:29, 38:11, 38:12, crashing [1] - 41:2 65:27, 65:30 directly [2] - 39:7, 85:12 double [2] - 70:21, 39:17 credibility [7] - 7:4, 8:15, decision [6] - 27:28, 68:9, disaffected [1] - 71:19 100:30 eleven [5] - 67:14, 72:8, 9:1, 9:6, 57:13, 58:22, 68:11, 68:12, 97:30, disagree [5] - 27:4, 27:6, 102:9 102:22 64:30, 65:1, 77:11 doubt [7] - 32:25, 37:23, 97:27, 104:10, 104:18 39:27, 50:9, 70:8, 71:7, eleven-and-a-half [1] - credible [3] - 41:18, decisions [1] - 59:1 disappointed [3] - 15:22, 75:8 41:19 deduced [2] - 86:9, 86:10 55:18, 55:26 67:14 Down [2] - 11:29, 45:30 emanating [1] - 36:25 crime [1] - 55:4 deeply [1] - 4:5 disciplinary [1] - 95:25 down [8] - 3:22, 9:17, embarrassment [1] - criminal [7] - 8:27, 21:30, Defence [4] - 36:26, discovered [1] - 101:8 10:2, 41:2, 47:2, 51:19, 58:10 22:15, 42:28, 43:11, 37:12, 84:9, 84:22 discuss [8] - 4:22, 5:6, 57:16, 78:16 70:29, 95:26 definition [1] - 42:2 17:20, 18:1, 30:30, emerge [2] - 32:25, 43:10 draw [1] - 40:25 critical [1] - 89:11 degree [1] - 69:9 34:23, 34:29, 73:3 emerged [2] - 12:30, drink [2] - 75:13, 75:21 32:29 criticism [1] - 12:15 demonstrate [1] - 65:20 discussed [5] - 45:26, driven [3] - 46:21, 47:8, criticisms [1] - 91:12 demonstrating [1] - 28:9 45:29, 51:26, 86:19, emphasise [1] - 41:7 51:22 Croatia [2] - 14:6, 14:20 denied [2] - 32:20, 37:1 92:13 employ [1] - 58:26 driver [1] - 57:24 CROSS [4] - 20:2, 34:3, deny [1] - 54:21 discussing [3] - 47:12, employed [1] - 14:5 driving [1] - 11:14 80:14, 81:1 departing [1] - 76:18 50:4, 91:30 employers [1] - 100:7 Drogheda [2] - 10:22, cross [3] - 26:7, 26:9, Department [2] - 14:5, discussion [4] - 3:15, enable [1] - 21:22 91:11 14:9 24:29, 26:5, 46:22 47:26 enabled [1] - 11:4 Dublin [2] - 14:5, 84:20 CROSS-EXAMINATION departments [1] - 81:15 discussions [6] - 14:21, encountered [2] - 56:9, due [1] - 102:12 [1] - 34:3 derives [1] - 21:16 15:27, 18:3, 18:25, 77:21 Dundalk [26] - 3:20, cross-examination [1] - described [5] - 18:20, 45:25, 86:18 encourage [1] - 4:29 10:13, 10:30, 19:3, 91:11 42:7, 59:4, 59:10, 99:19 disgrace [2] - 64:23, encouragement [1] - 19:6, 24:14, 31:25, cross-examine [2] - 26:7, describes [1] - 85:28 64:30 103:22 32:15, 35:11, 37:14, 26:9 describing [1] - 55:30 displayed [1] - 81:6 end [7] - 8:20, 11:23, 46:10, 47:21, 49:11, 20:14, 26:24, 60:8, CROSS-EXAMINED [3] - description [2] - 47:2, disproved [1] - 20:15 50:17, 53:15, 71:14, 20:2, 80:14, 81:1 47:30 dispute [1] - 77:24 65:13, 72:29 74:22, 77:29, 78:10, endanger [1] - 71:24 crucial [2] - 51:29, 53:22 deserved [1] - 103:3 disservice [2] - 66:22, 78:12, 98:21, 98:24, endangering [1] - 71:3 current [1] - 14:22 destroyed [1] - 12:14 66:25
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 5 engagement [1] - 17:27 ex-Detective [1] - 14:29 F fides [1] - 24:23 83:30 England [1] - 58:5 ex-Sergeant [1] - 96:1 figure [1] - 77:16 formal [2] - 19:22, 99:23 enhanced [1] - 28:14 exact [1] - 25:1 face [1] - 31:28 Files [1] - 93:7 former [3] - 37:4, 70:7, enjoy [1] - 27:16 exactly [1] - 99:22 facilitate [1] - 58:3 final [2] - 47:16, 48:6 85:7 enlisted [1] - 98:11 examination [3] - 43:2, facilitated [2] - 18:23, finally [2] - 2:26, 95:21 forward [2] - 90:17, ensure [3] - 21:5, 43:1, 91:3, 91:11 100:27 Finbarr [2] - 11:21, 95:4 103:23 67:30 EXAMINATION [1] - 34:3 fact [27] - 4:8, 5:17, findings [4] - 79:18, 80:2, four [2] - 24:8, 94:8 entered [1] - 15:26 examine [5] - 10:20, 26:7, 20:19, 26:12, 36:12, 97:12, 97:14 frankly [2] - 40:11, 41:3 entire [1] - 22:13 26:9, 38:15, 40:22 39:3, 39:28, 39:29, finger [1] - 42:14 Fraser [10] - 5:2, 43:17, entitled [5] - 4:16, 20:16, examined [5] - 41:15, 48:13, 50:14, 53:27, Fintan [1] - 51:22 43:20, 43:22, 43:23, 65:1, 67:26, 79:5 41:17, 41:27, 62:17, 55:17, 59:10, 61:13, firing [2] - 12:10, 88:5 43:24, 44:15, 45:16, 71:13, 77:20, 78:23, equally [1] - 97:21 68:20 first [48] - 1:4, 3:28, 8:4, 45:18, 45:19 equate [2] - 51:13, 51:16 EXAMINED [5] - 2:1, 84:1, 87:21, 88:16, 15:1, 18:13, 23:13, Freddie [1] - 80:17 97:10, 98:1, 98:2, Eric [1] - 91:17 20:2, 80:14, 81:1, 91:8 23:27, 31:21, 32:11, Friday's [1] - 70:18 99:22, 101:2, 102:12, error [1] - 40:16 examining [1] - 41:17 36:7, 43:14, 43:28, friend [1] - 75:16 104:9 establish [17] - 25:23, example [5] - 22:20, 45:7, 45:11, 45:28, Friend [1] - 101:9 factor [4] - 39:5, 41:8, 25:24, 33:4, 33:5, 22:22, 57:9, 57:26, 46:4, 47:14, 47:17, front [3] - 41:13, 46:25, 37:28, 38:29, 39:29, 102:1 75:16 48:14, 48:19, 48:25, 54:22 factors [4] - 37:22, 38:8, 40:19, 42:11, 43:9, examples [1] - 82:16 48:26, 49:6, 50:3, 51:4, FRU [1] - 87:3 38:18, 65:29 56:22, 63:4, 63:24, excellent [1] - 73:30 51:8, 51:9, 51:13, fruitful [1] - 100:26 facts [22] - 18:24, 32:24, 66:8, 66:12, 66:14, 67:4 exclusively [5] - 24:12, 51:19, 58:27, 62:27, fulfil [1] - 18:4 32:25, 33:12, 37:27, established [10] - 26:25, 29:7, 38:22, 39:15, 40:2 72:4, 72:24, 72:25, full [6] - 23:16, 34:14, 37:28, 38:16, 39:20, 28:18, 33:7, 33:10, excuse [2] - 84:2, 85:11 80:20, 84:19, 85:11, 36:18, 50:7, 50:12 41:16, 42:11, 43:2, 40:14, 42:1, 61:16, execution [1] - 3:21 85:12, 86:2, 91:21, fully [1] - 66:24 43:9, 43:10, 63:24, 67:30, 94:4, 101:11 Executive [1] - 93:12 92:22, 93:1, 93:2, Fulton [154] - 5:13, 5:17, 66:12, 66:14, 68:1, establishment [3] - 2:18, existed [1] - 37:17 96:13, 100:1, 100:16, 7:7, 8:8, 8:15, 8:21, 76:24, 77:3, 79:30, 94:4 63:27, 64:8 exists [1] - 37:13 102:15, 103:29 8:23, 9:4, 9:20, 9:22, factually [2] - 90:11, evaluation [1] - 8:6 expanded [1] - 99:8 firstly [3] - 16:18, 71:6, 16:15, 17:16, 17:21, 90:13 evening [2] - 75:13, 75:21 expect [8] - 8:30, 27:13, 91:12 17:23, 17:28, 18:3, fair [4] - 25:8, 51:11, event [7] - 3:11, 7:28, 37:18, 37:21, 57:18, Fitzsimons [3] - 77:14, 18:12, 24:4, 24:5, 73:10, 102:23 36:1, 74:11, 89:22, 71:4, 88:12, 97:29 77:21, 77:24 24:10, 24:13, 24:15, fairly [1] - 99:9 96:25, 101:10 expected [7] - 9:5, 9:7, Five [1] - 93:4 24:17, 25:3, 25:4, 25:7, fairness [6] - 32:10, events [3] - 3:27, 25:28, 26:9, 34:26, 50:5, Flanagan [4] - 16:30, 25:23, 25:27, 26:1, 34:25, 48:19, 78:6, 102:16 88:15, 89:20 59:4, 59:7, 93:25 26:6, 26:11, 26:18, 92:23 evidence [94] - 8:2, expecting [1] - 89:19 flow [1] - 33:16 26:22, 27:25, 28:22, falling [1] - 10:26 10:21, 11:30, 12:7, experience [2] - 22:4, focus [1] - 4:12 29:7, 29:21, 29:24, falls [1] - 41:1 12:9, 12:12, 12:26, 56:20 focused [2] - 16:3, 45:26 30:2, 30:4, 30:11, false [12] - 11:21, 20:25, 12:30, 16:14, 28:5, expert [1] - 88:3 following [9] - 14:1, 34:21, 35:21, 35:27, 32:8, 36:13, 36:15, 28:10, 28:19, 29:10, expertise [1] - 37:17 14:16, 29:22, 31:9, 38:28, 39:6, 39:8, 36:20, 37:22, 57:17, 29:16, 29:19, 29:27, explain [3] - 17:11, 17:12, 61:3, 62:4, 63:7, 97:16, 43:13, 43:22, 43:25, 57:24, 66:28, 95:7, 32:18, 33:12, 37:6, 17:15 100:4 43:26, 44:14, 45:5, 95:27 39:3, 39:20, 40:23, explained [2] - 46:5, follows [2] - 71:14, 98:9 45:7, 45:9, 45:10, falsehood [1] - 71:22 40:28, 40:29, 41:9, 65:28 FOLLOWS [8] - 1:2, 2:2, 45:17, 45:22, 46:1, falsely [2] - 66:22, 66:26 46:7, 46:21, 47:17, 41:14, 41:25, 41:26, explanation [6] - 70:4, 20:3, 34:1, 34:4, 80:14, familiar [1] - 2:14 42:9, 45:1, 45:3, 48:2, 72:12, 72:13, 72:19, 81:2, 91:8 48:1, 48:15, 48:27, families [9] - 17:24, 50:21, 51:20, 51:26, 83:2, 102:5 foot [1] - 38:30 49:6, 49:8, 49:15, 17:29, 18:21, 66:7, 51:15, 51:25, 51:26, 51:30, 53:2, 53:18, explosion [4] - 87:22, FOR [1] - 33:23 66:16, 66:21, 66:25, 53:19, 53:20, 53:21, 94:8, 94:10, 94:12 Force [1] - 12:19 52:9, 52:29, 53:8, 53:9, 67:2, 68:8 53:13, 53:21, 54:8, 54:4, 54:15, 55:27, explosions [2] - 13:7 force [11] - 7:30, 12:16, 56:14, 56:15, 57:16, family [13] - 2:30, 5:4, 54:13, 54:16, 55:28, exposed [1] - 74:18 20:23, 20:24, 21:29, 57:21, 59:17, 59:22, 5:14, 6:10, 6:11, 63:16, 56:15, 56:21, 56:27, exposing [1] - 69:10 26:7, 26:10, 59:25, 59:24, 60:7, 62:9, 66:4, 67:20, 67:27, 57:21, 57:22, 58:2, express [1] - 79:14 60:1, 78:24, 92:7 63:30, 64:6, 64:27, 68:7, 71:25, 72:26, 58:8, 58:23, 59:5, expressed [4] - 10:24, forces [29] - 5:21, 7:5, 65:21, 67:17, 67:23, 94:12 59:11, 59:17, 60:9, 19:2, 19:6, 64:16 7:10, 7:21, 7:23, 8:1, 68:29, 70:7, 70:9, 71:6, fantasist [2] - 7:14, 56:16 60:24, 60:26, 61:5, expression [1] - 7:19 8:12, 8:20, 8:26, 9:2, 71:15, 73:29, 74:3, far [5] - 13:6, 22:19, 9:3, 9:11, 9:15, 23:24, 61:10, 61:11, 61:14, extensive [7] - 10:4, 23:8, 77:10, 77:20, 77:22, 38:26, 39:5, 54:12 61:17, 61:20, 61:25, 23:11, 23:13, 23:17, 24:6, 24:22, 24:26, 78:23, 78:27, 78:28, farcical [1] - 60:4 61:26, 62:2, 62:10, 23:27, 24:8 25:22, 26:4, 37:7, 45:8, 78:30, 79:7, 81:21, farmer [1] - 51:6 54:19, 58:24, 61:17, 62:11, 62:13, 62:28, extent [1] - 64:5 81:23, 83:8, 83:19, father [1] - 5:4 81:16, 89:26, 90:12, 63:29, 64:1, 65:27, extradited [1] - 74:8 87:14, 87:17, 87:18, feasible [1] - 65:16 90:22 68:28, 69:1, 69:7, extradition [1] - 74:10 88:28, 89:17, 90:21, featured [1] - 87:26 Forces [1] - 52:23 75:16, 75:23, 79:8, extraordinarily [1] - 100:24, 101:3, 101:18, felt [10] - 6:11, 15:18, Foreign [2] - 14:5, 14:9 80:19, 81:24, 82:1, 31:17 82:4, 83:1, 83:10, 103:18, 103:20, 103:22, 16:6, 28:3, 59:2, 65:13, Forensic [1] - 88:2 extremely [1] - 31:13 83:28, 84:19, 84:20, 104:3, 104:10, 104:14 66:10, 67:2, 79:13, 97:5 forensic [3] - 12:9, 12:12, eye [1] - 3:27 evident [1] - 46:22 Fermanagh [1] - 13:30 88:17 85:13, 85:25, 86:12, 86:15, 86:19, 86:23, ex [3] - 14:29, 95:30, 96:1 few [4] - 51:4, 51:7, 51:9, forgive [1] - 36:6 87:4, 87:10, 90:1, 90:9, Ex [2] - 95:14, 95:22 80:12 form [3] - 2:11, 71:11,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 6
90:14, 90:15, 90:18, 38:4, 94:10, 99:3, 23:28, 31:11, 32:1, 6:30, 9:21, 9:23, 9:26, 34:24, 34:28, 94:3, 97:6 91:22, 91:28, 92:9, 100:28 32:20, 32:21, 34:18, 13:12, 13:28, 14:28, include [2] - 48:13, 50:3 96:19, 96:21, 97:1, given [42] - 18:28, 20:11, 34:20, 34:23, 35:22, 15:14, 16:10, 16:26, included [8] - 18:8, 24:4, 98:4, 98:8, 99:27, 20:15, 24:13, 25:25, 35:26, 35:29, 35:30, 17:17, 19:21, 20:19, 42:19, 75:17, 82:23, 101:22, 101:23, 101:28 26:30, 28:19, 37:9, 36:7, 39:9, 40:7, 79:7, 21:5, 21:29, 22:11, 92:20, 92:22, 96:8 Fulton's [16] - 8:17, 39:6, 41:25, 42:9, 90:24, 94:19, 94:23 22:15, 23:5, 24:12, including [5] - 5:4, 13:1, 24:23, 26:17, 29:16, 42:19, 45:9, 46:9, 49:2, Harnden's [21] - 10:27, 26:26, 27:8, 27:15, 22:12, 35:3, 67:1 29:27, 48:18, 49:13, 50:13, 54:7, 54:12, 23:3, 31:4, 31:6, 31:20, 30:1, 30:22, 36:26, inconvenience [1] - 50:11, 50:30, 53:12, 56:21, 57:29, 62:28, 32:23, 32:30, 34:8, 37:5, 38:24, 41:27, 33:18 54:6, 57:26, 64:7, 63:3, 63:22, 63:29, 36:4, 36:14, 37:23, 42:17, 42:18, 51:23, incorrect [5] - 20:8, 21:2, 82:30, 85:19, 89:28 63:30, 65:8, 66:29, 38:19, 39:3, 39:7, 51:24, 58:15, 60:11, 37:23, 66:18, 76:9 function [1] - 43:4 77:20, 78:27, 78:28, 39:12, 39:25, 40:16, 61:5, 62:13, 62:24, indeed [37] - 3:30, 4:22, fundamental [1] - 40:16 79:8, 79:13, 88:4, 40:26, 81:26, 81:27, 63:13, 64:18, 64:29, 7:20, 12:27, 13:26, funded [1] - 47:27 89:15, 90:2, 96:25, 81:28 65:3, 65:30, 66:13, 13:27, 17:23, 21:15, funeral [2] - 19:15, 19:19 97:25, 102:5, 102:12, Harry [15] - 10:10, 18:29, 67:18, 68:18, 69:27, 21:27, 25:26, 31:27, funerals [3] - 3:9, 3:14, 103:3, 103:22, 103:29 19:2, 19:5, 19:12, 72:20, 76:20, 76:29, 32:6, 32:12, 33:11, 19:16 gladly [1] - 49:5 23:15, 25:28, 38:3, 79:12, 79:24, 79:28, 35:20, 37:3, 41:27, furthermore [1] - 14:23 gleaned [1] - 10:28 42:21, 46:5, 51:17, 80:20, 81:29, 91:15, 43:7, 53:25, 61:16, Gough [1] - 55:4 52:28, 66:7, 68:8, 70:22 91:20, 91:25, 92:2, 63:16, 70:2, 74:13, G Government [5] - 14:18, HAVING [1] - 2:1 93:22, 96:14, 102:15 76:29, 81:14, 82:14, 81:15, 92:21, 96:6, HAYES [3] - 103:28, house [3] - 41:2, 46:19, 82:26, 84:7, 85:11, Garda [78] - 3:20, 3:24, 97:12 104:9, 104:14 49:16 86:14, 88:26, 90:4, 6:18, 10:30, 11:6, governments [1] - 103:6 headed [2] - 55:10, 55:25 Houses [4] - 5:11, 28:27, 96:9, 96:17, 103:4, 11:14, 11:24, 12:18, grade [1] - 101:17 hear [8] - 13:18, 62:19, 45:14, 65:10 103:24 12:21, 12:23, 12:27, grateful [2] - 103:17, 81:12, 81:13, 83:2, Hudson [1] - 87:24 independent [28] - 10:9, 13:18, 14:11, 14:19, 103:21 83:20, 83:26, 92:15 10:20, 15:19, 16:8, 14:21, 15:30, 19:3, grave [4] - 20:9, 20:20, heard [5] - 13:7, 13:22, I 21:8, 23:10, 27:2, 23:1, 24:14, 24:27, 20:25, 22:1 43:26, 43:27, 78:23 27:27, 28:12, 33:11, 26:3, 26:12, 30:7, idea [2] - 52:20, 72:7 great [7] - 21:9, 21:25, hearing [1] - 83:9 38:5, 40:20, 40:24, 31:14, 31:25, 31:28, identifiable [1] - 54:24 21:26, 47:6, 81:7, hearsay [1] - 100:30 41:10, 41:30, 42:24, 32:2, 32:3, 32:13, identified [2] - 14:4, 82:12, 103:20 held [1] - 61:18 63:24, 63:27, 65:14, 32:15, 32:19, 35:5, 35:21 Great [4] - 58:1, 58:3, helicopter [1] - 77:13 65:17, 65:22, 66:11, 35:8, 35:11, 36:8, identify [2] - 35:8, 73:22 58:4, 58:11 help [2] - 60:27, 85:6 67:3, 68:22, 79:15, 37:14, 40:19, 44:5, identifying [1] - 11:15 greater [2] - 39:5, 71:20 helpful [1] - 47:23 79:29, 97:7, 97:15 46:10, 47:21, 49:11, identity [2] - 7:3, 19:8 guard [4] - 35:14, 42:14, helping [3] - 60:13, Index [1] - 92:27 50:17, 51:29, 52:3, immediately [2] - 71:2, 53:14, 74:14 60:17, 61:8 indicate [2] - 44:8, 61:2 52:5, 52:6, 52:15, 62:5, 89:18 Guardian [2] - 86:22, hence [1] - 33:11 indicated [2] - 16:2, 70:30, 73:13, 73:17, impact [3] - 65:5, 66:3, 86:29 Hickey [3] - 11:21, 95:4, 17:21 74:6, 74:16, 75:25, 67:27 guards [2] - 87:28, 97:21 95:11 indicates [1] - 40:18 75:28, 77:29, 78:5, impart [1] - 7:27 guess [2] - 27:16, 60:3 hides [1] - 58:3 indicating [1] - 15:12 78:9, 81:5, 81:24, 82:9, imparted [4] - 20:28, guilty [8] - 41:24, 41:26, hierarchy [1] - 78:19 indication [1] - 50:27 88:16, 88:23, 89:20, 20:29, 26:6, 53:2 42:27, 42:28, 43:5, Higgins [3] - 11:16, indications [1] - 100:9 91:13, 92:19, 93:3, imparting [1] - 25:19 43:6, 43:10, 102:11 93:24, 93:29 individual [15] - 5:11, 93:7, 94:29, 95:18, impending [1] - 44:9 gun [1] - 14:7 Higgins' [1] - 11:27 5:12, 12:23, 14:24, 97:11, 99:15, 101:16, imperative [1] - 67:2 high [2] - 12:18, 101:17 22:6, 24:16, 28:26, 102:10, 102:13, 102:19, impinge [1] - 104:15 H highest [1] - 56:16 29:2, 44:7, 52:22, 102:27 implicating [2] - 81:23, highly [1] - 6:23 56:19, 58:22, 90:28, garda [1] - 61:24 half [5] - 44:13, 51:13, 82:8 himself [3] - 6:3, 18:12, 98:17, 98:18 Gardaí [15] - 36:12, 53:29, 67:14, 104:7 implication [1] - 47:26 individuals [8] - 12:20, 78:14, 78:22, 88:6, 97:26 hand [2] - 69:17, 74:15 implied [1] - 53:10 51:29, 54:26, 56:26, 88:12, 89:10, 89:12, hindsight [2] - 26:15, handed [7] - 9:17, 69:19, importance [2] - 44:30, 57:5, 57:12, 62:20, 85:6 90:6, 91:28, 92:1, 68:23 74:7, 74:20, 87:6, 53:23 infiltrate [3] - 6:9, 6:12, 92:17, 98:19, 100:7, historic [1] - 21:19 88:17, 88:19 important [13] - 15:18, 46:2 100:25, 100:26 historical [1] - 21:13 handing [1] - 74:16 28:10, 29:10, 29:16, infiltrated [3] - 5:21, gathering [2] - 37:2, 55:5 history [1] - 95:3 handled [2] - 16:19, 29:27, 33:17, 44:24, 58:27, 86:4 gathers [1] - 36:29 hmm [1] - 4:27 57:21 53:17, 65:13, 73:8, infiltrates [1] - 86:5 general [8] - 6:14, 12:8, hold [2] - 28:20, 101:24 handlers [6] - 47:11, 79:14, 92:24, 101:24 influential [1] - 39:25 12:15, 13:10, 24:29, holding [4] - 21:7, 28:11, 61:12, 61:13, 61:21, importations [1] - 14:19 informants [2] - 61:29, 26:5, 29:6, 30:29 28:15, 66:10 90:3, 90:10 impossibility [1] - 79:8 87:8 generally [2] - 23:22, home [2] - 2:29, 13:6 hands [1] - 10:27 impossible [1] - 100:22 information [142] - 3:20, 29:23 honestly [1] - 71:28 Hanna [4] - 11:11, 11:15, improper [1] - 47:27 4:17, 5:9, 6:17, 6:18, generated [1] - 71:19 honourable [1] - 14:17 63:16, 94:12 inaccuracy [1] - 101:7 7:11, 7:26, 7:27, 9:10, gentleman [9] - 14:17, hope [1] - 103:21 happy [2] - 50:8, 92:13 inaccurate [2] - 40:27, 10:22, 10:26, 10:28, 55:1, 55:8, 56:5, 56:7, hoped [2] - 13:23, 104:2 harassment [1] - 74:17 101:11 11:3, 11:27, 12:5, 12:8, 57:1, 57:3, 67:12, 73:24 hopefully [2] - 7:28, harm [1] - 67:29 inadequacies [1] - 89:1 13:17, 15:12, 17:29, gentlemen [1] - 57:15 26:24 Harnden [28] - 4:16, 4:21, incident [2] - 55:16, 94:5 20:10, 20:14, 20:28, Germany [1] - 6:6 hospital [1] - 67:9 5:1, 5:10, 5:27, 10:6, Incidents [1] - 93:4 24:13, 25:18, 25:19, Gibson [11] - 4:10, 6:17, hour [3] - 44:13, 103:29 15:29, 19:7, 23:20, incidents [6] - 4:18, 18:8, 25:25, 26:3, 26:5, 11:9, 11:25, 15:25, House [63] - 2:19, 2:27,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 7
26:17, 26:30, 27:1, 20:30, 21:8, 23:10, interrogation [1] - 87:7 53:19, 55:11, 55:17, 97:29, 98:1, 98:3, 98:9, 27:5, 27:24, 27:26, 27:3, 27:27, 28:6, interrupt [2] - 33:16, 92:5 57:30, 58:28, 59:20, 99:26, 99:27, 100:28, 28:21, 31:10, 31:14, 28:12, 28:18, 28:20, intervening [1] - 96:27 59:26, 60:1, 60:18, 101:5, 101:10, 102:7 31:24, 31:26, 32:5, 28:23, 28:25, 28:26, interview [3] - 32:20, 60:30, 61:3, 61:11, judgement [35] - 8:5, 32:8, 32:13, 32:15, 29:22, 29:25, 29:28, 49:3, 94:19 61:15, 61:16, 61:18, 24:18, 27:10, 27:12, 32:27, 34:13, 34:15, 32:24, 32:27, 33:12, interviewed [7] - 48:22, 61:19, 61:21, 61:24, 27:18, 27:20, 27:21, 34:27, 35:12, 35:28, 38:17, 38:23, 39:2, 91:27, 93:29, 96:16, 61:27, 61:29, 62:5, 27:22, 28:6, 28:7, 36:8, 37:1, 37:3, 37:13, 39:28, 40:1, 40:25, 96:18, 96:26, 96:28 62:6, 62:15, 62:26, 28:12, 39:1, 39:24, 37:18, 37:29, 38:23, 41:10, 41:15, 41:30, interviews [1] - 95:30 64:14, 64:17, 73:28, 42:22, 42:25, 52:15, 38:27, 38:29, 39:3, 42:11, 42:24, 55:25, intimidated [2] - 78:14, 74:1, 74:4, 74:21, 55:14, 55:22, 56:11, 39:6, 39:20, 39:23, 63:24, 63:27, 64:8, 78:22 74:28, 75:14, 75:22, 56:26, 57:13, 58:30, 39:30, 41:12, 42:9, 65:14, 65:17, 65:23, intimidation [2] - 78:16, 75:24, 75:28, 75:30, 62:30, 65:11, 65:19, 42:19, 42:20, 42:23, 66:11, 67:3, 67:4, 78:26 76:13, 78:14, 78:29, 66:30, 68:6, 68:9, 42:26, 44:6, 44:8, 45:5, 67:30, 68:22, 79:16, intrinsically [1] - 42:4 82:11, 82:25, 83:1, 68:10, 68:11, 68:26, 45:8, 46:11, 46:23, 79:17, 79:29, 90:29, introduce [1] - 5:8 83:3, 83:18, 83:23, 68:27, 102:8 47:10, 47:22, 47:23, 97:7, 97:9, 97:11, introduced [4] - 5:19, 85:8, 85:29, 86:4, 86:5, judgement-call [4] - 48:16, 48:27, 49:10, 97:15, 101:25, 102:28, 5:20, 6:3, 98:20 86:13, 87:4, 92:19, 39:24, 62:30, 66:30, 50:6, 50:17, 50:19, 103:4 93:4, 94:22, 98:14, introduction [3] - 84:18, 68:26 52:12, 52:14, 52:18, inside [4] - 3:19, 5:22, 85:19, 93:15 98:17, 98:22, 98:27, judgements [10] - 8:22, 52:24, 53:2, 53:6, 35:11, 76:30 98:28, 99:14, 99:15 invalidate [1] - 37:27 27:14, 27:18, 39:22, 53:11, 54:7, 54:10, insofar [3] - 34:13, 52:28, Ireland [10] - 10:19, 14:8, investigated [5] - 14:12, 56:25, 58:16, 58:17, 54:12, 56:21, 56:23, 82:11 28:3, 68:20, 92:29, 94:1 30:20, 37:11, 59:21, 59:14, 68:2, 68:3 57:24, 60:18, 60:30, Inspector [4] - 32:2, 60:2, 73:29, 86:18, judicial [1] - 16:7 investigating [6] - 13:17, 62:16, 62:18, 62:23, 88:3, 89:4 32:19, 55:4, 57:19 25:16, 25:17, 87:28, July [8] - 11:11, 51:10, 62:28, 63:3, 63:22, inspector [4] - 36:11, 97:27 Irish [9] - 6:6, 10:13, 51:11, 84:3, 85:5, 63:29, 64:2, 65:8, 39:12, 40:4, 40:10 10:25, 12:1, 14:18, 94:13, 94:16, 102:3 investigation [27] - 8:27, 65:10, 66:9, 66:22, 30:14, 93:17, 97:12, inspector's [1] - 41:3 12:11, 12:28, 16:19, jurisdiction [2] - 89:13, 66:27, 66:29, 67:5, 103:6 instance [2] - 12:25, 16:20, 55:10, 55:16, 92:14 68:19, 73:8, 77:23, 62:27 86:17, 87:19, 87:30, irregularities [1] - 95:5 jurisdictions [1] - 74:12 79:13, 81:12, 81:17, instances [2] - 18:20, 88:18, 92:17, 92:18, island [1] - 74:12 Justice [3] - 11:9, 11:25, 82:1, 82:7, 83:8, 88:22, 82:16 92:27, 94:5, 94:25, issue [21] - 9:5, 12:4, 99:3 88:28, 89:5, 89:17, instructed [1] - 70:25 94:28, 96:10, 96:11, 16:6, 18:14, 21:5, justification [1] - 28:20 89:23, 90:2, 90:6, integrity [1] - 55:8 96:15, 96:30, 97:3, 28:25, 28:26, 28:30, justified [4] - 38:5, 65:10, 90:12, 90:17, 90:20, intelligence [21] - 7:17, 97:17, 97:20, 97:24, 38:25, 39:13, 53:5, 66:10, 97:10 93:28, 98:21, 100:6, 32:27, 36:29, 55:5, 102:22, 104:2 69:7, 83:29, 84:5, 84:9, justifying [2] - 29:27, 100:17, 100:27, 101:17, 84:21, 85:22, 87:29, 55:28, 56:17, 57:30, Investigations [1] - 93:7 64:7 101:20 88:24, 89:2, 92:9 58:11, 73:18, 73:30, investigations [8] - informed [2] - 28:23, 77:23, 85:8, 98:12, 14:19, 14:23, 17:11, Issues [1] - 93:8 K 31:12 99:28, 100:1, 100:3, 94:18, 95:27, 102:18, issues [16] - 4:23, 4:25, informers [2] - 61:19, Keeley [1] - 5:17 100:10, 100:15, 101:12, 102:19, 102:20 5:6, 11:12, 15:20, 16:5, 61:20 21:5, 30:26, 36:3, 38:1, keep [3] - 58:26, 72:8, 101:23 involved [28] - 2:11, 4:5, informing [1] - 51:28 72:11 intelligence-gathering 4:19, 11:6, 12:22, 14:7, 39:30, 45:26, 68:4, Ingram [3] - 13:29, 84:19, kept [1] - 44:26 [1] - 55:5 22:1, 22:15, 22:16, 76:16, 95:14, 95:22 85:19 Kevin [80] - 5:13, 5:17, intended [1] - 67:18 42:4, 42:9, 44:6, 45:23, itself [2] - 12:21, 96:23 initial [2] - 6:7, 94:5 8:8, 8:15, 8:17, 8:21, intention [2] - 42:13, 47:13, 47:20, 52:22, [1] 16:15, 17:16, 17:23, injured - 87:24 103:10 52:23, 67:1, 68:15, J 17:28, 18:3, 18:12, injustice [3] - 20:9, 20:20, inter [1] - 14:29 70:21, 79:21, 79:30, jealous [1] - 71:19 24:10, 24:13, 24:15, 21:3 intercepted [1] - 82:22 85:16, 85:17, 86:6, Jeffrey [4] - 1:5, 48:20, 24:17, 24:23, 26:1, INLA [1] - 74:25 interest [39] - 3:1, 3:4, 86:15, 87:5 innocent [3] - 66:24, 69:26, 93:21 26:6, 26:22, 27:25, 3:7, 3:26, 4:1, 4:3, 4:14, involvement [7] - 3:24, JEFFREY [2] - 2:1, 34:3 28:22, 29:7, 29:15, 71:24, 71:25 6:15, 6:24, 6:28, 8:20, 16:16, 37:11, 43:29, job [2] - 26:21, 67:7 29:24, 29:26, 30:1, inquire [3] - 8:15, 35:22, 8:24, 13:8, 13:9, 13:13, 56:27, 57:8, 95:4 39:26 jobs [1] - 81:13 30:4, 30:10, 30:13, 13:22, 17:10, 17:22, involving [6] - 4:18, joined [1] - 6:5 38:28, 39:6, 43:13, inquired [4] - 26:23, 38:1, 20:13, 22:30, 23:23, 10:18, 14:10, 45:29, Jonesboro [1] - 10:12 45:17, 45:22, 46:21, 44:29, 59:18 24:19, 25:14, 25:21, 55:10, 55:16 Joseph [8] - 16:11, 17:2, 47:17, 50:11, 51:25, inquiries [14] - 10:4, 23:8, 26:20, 27:1, 27:5, IRA [104] - 3:3, 3:6, 3:20, 46:6, 46:20, 49:9, 53:8, 53:13, 54:5, 54:8, 23:12, 23:13, 23:17, 27:23, 27:25, 31:4, 3:29, 4:19, 5:22, 5:23, 50:16, 98:17, 98:26 54:13, 54:16, 55:28, 23:27, 24:9, 38:5, 31:9, 33:7, 33:8, 47:27, 6:10, 6:13, 6:19, 10:17, journalist [7] - 4:15, 56:15, 56:21, 56:27, 38:26, 58:17, 60:2, 57:11, 63:5, 68:9, 71:9, 10:22, 10:24, 10:29, 18:23, 18:24, 34:26, 57:26, 59:11, 59:17, 83:17, 90:26 81:7 11:3, 11:6, 11:22, 76:17, 76:27 60:9, 60:24, 62:2, Inquiry [12] - 28:15, interested [5] - 4:20, 12:25, 14:3, 14:4, 18:7, journalistic [2] - 35:19, 62:10, 62:11, 62:13, 36:22, 48:21, 48:24, 8:25, 42:6, 65:27, 65:28 22:10, 22:13, 31:25, 36:1 62:28, 63:29, 64:1, 48:26, 49:4, 66:13, interesting [2] - 32:26, 32:4, 32:16, 35:12, journey [1] - 68:3 64:7, 65:27, 68:28, 68:17, 79:20, 79:29, 57:29 36:9, 37:15, 41:22, judge [1] - 55:15 69:1, 69:7, 75:16, 79:8, 80:1, 80:2 interests [1] - 13:10 42:10, 42:15, 42:21, 80:19, 87:4, 90:9, inquiry [62] - 10:9, 10:20, interferences [1] - 21:22 44:6, 45:24, 46:8, Judge [19] - 11:16, 11:27, 91:22, 91:28, 93:18, 15:19, 15:23, 16:8, intermittently [1] - 3:23 46:16, 46:24, 47:22, 29:17, 29:24, 64:4, 64:5, 64:6, 97:16, 94:26, 96:21, 98:3, 16:18, 19:25, 20:27, interpretation [1] - 82:29 47:23, 53:3, 53:4, 53:6, 99:27, 101:23
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 8 key [1] - 53:8 69:20, 69:22, 69:23, 59:2 46:5, 46:13, 46:18, Mickey [4] - 49:17, 49:19, killed [4] - 3:17, 87:5, 69:25, 70:1, 70:6, 70:8, major [3] - 9:5, 55:10, 47:3, 47:4, 47:11, 49:24, 50:14 87:16, 87:22 70:9, 70:14, 71:27, 55:25 47:15, 47:17, 48:1, might [7] - 9:6, 13:23, Killeen [3] - 94:9, 94:11, 71:28, 71:29, 72:2, majority [1] - 27:16 48:15, 48:27, 48:28, 26:16, 70:23, 99:26, 94:13 72:5, 72:12, 72:14, malicious [2] - 71:18, 50:4, 50:20, 50:28, 104:2, 104:6 killing [3] - 24:27, 31:15, 72:18, 72:19, 84:2, 71:22 51:3, 51:7, 51:17, Mills [4] - 10:3, 92:26, 82:13 84:7, 84:26, 85:3, 85:11 man [14] - 20:20, 21:2, 52:30, 53:16, 53:22, 93:1, 98:5 killings [3] - 31:7, 79:22, letters [2] - 72:8, 72:17 42:27, 43:29, 55:8, 53:24, 53:29, 54:9, mind [6] - 15:28, 24:18, 100:17 level [6] - 3:1, 23:22, 55:13, 55:20, 55:21, 60:10, 60:12, 61:4, 41:16, 41:20, 42:2, 50:9 kind [3] - 4:3, 71:21, 38:6, 56:10, 89:1, 97:8 55:22, 56:16, 66:24, 61:7, 61:23, 61:28, mine [1] - 64:25 87:14 liable [1] - 71:2 71:24, 87:22 62:21, 85:21, 86:1 minister [3] - 13:29, 14:2, kindly [1] - 103:19 liaison [1] - 88:6 mandate [1] - 27:12 meetings [17] - 9:20, 14:16 kinds [1] - 86:20 liar [1] - 56:15 manner [2] - 36:29, 87:15 9:22, 9:23, 17:19, Ministry [2] - 84:9, 84:21 Kirwan [4] - 9:28, 32:12, lie [3] - 52:2, 52:3, 70:27 March [5] - 10:14, 30:15, 18:23, 18:26, 44:24, minutes [1] - 104:15 92:18, 92:27 life [7] - 12:29, 67:19, 37:15, 93:18, 94:15 45:20, 45:28, 48:26, misheard [1] - 83:11 knowledge [14] - 5:22, 67:20, 71:3, 71:24, mark [1] - 60:23 49:7, 61:14, 80:19, misleading [2] - 36:4, 7:6, 17:21, 17:25, 18:8, 73:27, 74:3 marked [1] - 9:8 80:20, 86:14, 101:16 57:24 23:25, 25:27, 36:19, light [2] - 19:27, 30:17 Martin [1] - 84:19 Member [2] - 2:6, 71:21 misquoted [2] - 40:5, 37:10, 47:18, 56:8, likelihood [2] - 91:23, massacre [1] - 13:16 member [57] - 6:18, 7:5, 40:9 70:28, 81:7, 82:12 92:7 materialise [1] - 53:21 7:21, 7:22, 7:29, 8:11, missing [2] - 70:11, 70:12 known [8] - 5:12, 10:24, likely [2] - 59:23, 62:7 matter [41] - 3:27, 6:25, 8:19, 9:2, 9:3, 9:10, mistake [1] - 11:15 11:23, 18:8, 19:3, 19:13, 61:16, 64:14, limited [1] - 56:26 6:28, 8:3, 8:18, 12:3, mistakes [1] - 79:6 20:22, 21:9, 21:29, 64:17, 73:15, 87:4 line [4] - 47:2, 50:27, 14:9, 14:18, 16:7, 18:9, Mitty [4] - 7:19, 55:30, knows [3] - 67:27, 75:1, 85:11, 102:23 18:16, 18:18, 18:22, 23:24, 24:6, 24:22, 59:5, 59:11 24:26, 26:7, 26:10, 75:4 lines [1] - 51:16 22:18, 22:21, 25:14, Mitty-type [1] - 59:5 32:3, 35:5, 35:8, 35:10, link [2] - 6:18, 88:27 27:10, 27:11, 28:3, mix [1] - 102:7 36:26, 44:5, 45:8, L linked [1] - 71:11 37:28, 40:11, 40:30, modicum [1] - 41:11 54:19, 54:20, 57:9, linking [1] - 68:19 42:5, 53:9, 54:11, modus [2] - 36:27, 37:8 Lady [6] - 6:16, 11:9, 57:10, 61:11, 61:15, Lisnarick [1] - 13:30 58:20, 61:13, 63:1, Moira [2] - 2:29, 10:14 11:25, 38:4, 94:10, 99:3 61:24, 62:4, 73:12, list [2] - 54:23, 54:28 63:5, 71:13, 71:15, mole [3] - 32:3, 75:24, Lagan [1] - 2:7 73:14, 73:26, 74:6, listening [2] - 53:17, 71:20, 72:26, 79:17, 75:30 largest [1] - 12:28 74:25, 76:15, 77:12, 76:30 84:12, 88:16, 91:10, moment [4] - 63:20, last [6] - 10:2, 44:12, 78:9, 81:24, 82:8, 85:7, live [1] - 2:30 95:12, 98:3, 103:7, 66:20, 84:2, 98:5 45:1, 46:30, 48:11, 87:4, 88:23, 89:26, lived [2] - 2:28, 10:14 103:30 money [1] - 58:25 70:18 92:1, 92:8, 98:14, lives [2] - 3:18, 71:25 matters [21] - 7:7, 16:2, monitor [1] - 36:17 late [5] - 6:1, 43:14, 82:4, 17:9, 23:14, 23:18, 98:19, 98:27, 99:14 living [2] - 10:22, 13:6 monstrous [1] - 70:27 85:15, 98:16 23:23, 23:25, 26:23, Members [1] - 21:26 logistics [1] - 58:4 months [6] - 14:14, 51:9, laterally [1] - 87:27 39:26, 48:22, 57:11, members [19] - 5:4, London [4] - 5:11, 21:14, 51:20, 79:9, 82:18, LAVERTY [8] - 1:4, 2:2, 11:28, 12:23, 20:23, 45:14, 69:27 57:25, 59:15, 59:18, 98:11 2:4, 9:19, 91:5, 91:8, 62:17, 65:22, 66:5, 22:10, 54:23, 61:28, long-serving [1] - 73:14 morning [8] - 1:4, 2:4, 91:10, 92:11 67:3, 81:8, 101:27, 61:30, 62:6, 62:15, look [5] - 4:29, 54:27, 2:5, 10:16, 10:23, 19:6, laverty [1] - 92:5 63:16, 71:25, 74:15, 54:28, 56:3, 73:21 103:2 104:3, 104:18 Laverty [4] - 1:7, 87:18, Mayo [1] - 78:12 75:14, 75:21, 76:2, looking [2] - 16:1, 54:4 77:27, 77:28, 100:5 most [8] - 3:2, 3:16, 89:3, 91:3 McBurney's [1] - 90:26 looks [2] - 95:17 10:11, 20:25, 63:17, membership [1] - 22:13 law [1] - 27:20 McGlinchey [5] - 74:7, Lord [8] - 6:16, 11:8, 67:13, 71:16, 78:7 leader [3] - 14:4, 30:25, 74:11, 74:15, 74:21, men [1] - 46:8 11:24, 37:4, 38:4, motivation [5] - 21:4, 37:4 mention [8] - 19:20, 35:5, 69:28, 94:10, 99:2 74:24 63:23, 66:28, 67:29, leading [2] - 2:24, 68:16 McGuinness [3] - 81:1, 47:7, 48:8, 49:18, loss [1] - 12:28 68:17 leak [1] - 36:12 81:4, 81:5 49:20, 62:19, 80:21 lost [4] - 3:5, 3:17, 5:3, mouth [1] - 42:7 leaking [1] - 87:7 mean [9] - 41:2, 59:25, mentioned [18] - 2:21, 5:28 moved [2] - 3:28, 4:2 learn [1] - 101:2 60:17, 60:27, 60:29, 3:8, 11:30, 14:29, Louth [3] - 5:23, 46:19, movements [2] - 11:27, learnt [1] - 86:7 79:26, 90:1, 99:12, 30:10, 30:19, 30:21, 51:6 46:11 least [2] - 37:4, 84:23 104:12 31:3, 47:6, 48:7, 53:12, Louth/Armagh [1] - 93:5 MP [3] - 1:5, 69:26, 93:21 leave [6] - 20:30, 52:4, means [9] - 28:17, 39:4, 80:17, 82:5, 84:11, loved [2] - 17:26, 66:23 MR [13] - 20:2, 20:5, 34:3, 53:28, 54:3, 54:15, 61:26, 61:27, 62:1, 96:13, 96:14, 103:30 loyalist [1] - 83:15 34:4, 34:6, 80:6, 80:8, 73:28 62:3, 62:4, 62:7, 82:4 mentions [1] - 95:9 lunch [6] - 33:19, 34:7, 81:1, 81:4, 92:5, leaves [1] - 52:20 mechanism [1] - 44:23 mercenary [1] - 71:19 36:5, 38:7, 38:10, 104:1 103:28, 104:9, 104:14 leaving [1] - 54:14 media [1] - 69:25 merely [1] - 87:29 [2] MRS [8] - 1:4, 2:2, 2:4, LUNCH - 33:23, 34:1 merited [1] - 16:8 led [2] - 16:17, 100:18 meet [6] - 5:11, 6:27, 9:19, 91:5, 91:8, 91:10, met [27] - 4:22, 5:5, 5:24, ledger [1] - 100:14 M 34:20, 43:25, 72:23, 92:11 left [5] - 16:7, 34:15, 85:14 6:29, 6:30, 17:16, MS [4] - 80:10, 80:12, 17:23, 29:3, 34:18, 55:18, 55:26, 75:28 mails [1] - 69:30 meeting [52] - 10:13, 34:21, 43:13, 43:29, 80:14, 80:16 length [1] - 23:20 Mains [5] - 18:29, 19:23, 10:15, 10:18, 19:6, 45:25, 46:20, 47:9, murder [33] - 4:13, 6:19, Leo [1] - 95:15 72:23, 72:24, 73:4 43:20, 43:23, 43:26, 57:7, 57:12, 57:13, 11:4, 11:28, 18:8, less [1] - 72:14 mains [1] - 19:3 44:1, 44:9, 44:11, 61:12, 61:21, 61:29, 19:25, 20:23, 22:1, lesser [1] - 79:19 Mains' [1] - 72:30 44:12, 44:14, 44:17, 72:25, 82:4, 84:19, 22:16, 22:28, 41:25, letter [28] - 30:25, 30:29, maintain [1] - 4:2 45:7, 45:10, 45:13, 42:3, 42:4, 42:16, 49:9, 45:15, 45:18, 46:3, 90:14, 99:10 69:13, 69:15, 69:16, maintained [2] - 59:1, 51:10, 52:13, 52:28,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 9
53:7, 53:13, 63:14, necessary [6] - 7:30, 8:1, 20:2, 20:5, 34:4, 34:6, 16:19, 17:3, 17:10 26:27, 27:7, 27:29, 63:16, 70:21, 79:10, 27:29, 27:30, 69:4, 80:6, 92:5 Ombudsman [3] - 16:20, 28:9, 28:30, 29:6, 29:7, 87:29, 94:8, 94:10, 88:14 O'Callaghan [1] - 82:29 17:1, 86:17 30:1, 30:10, 41:21, 94:12, 94:14, 94:16, necessity [2] - 27:7, o'clock [1] - 33:17 omission [1] - 12:24 42:14, 42:20, 44:1, 99:2, 100:19, 100:27 28:20 O'HARE [3] - 80:12, ON [1] - 1:1 46:20, 46:23, 47:9, murdered [10] - 3:3, 3:5, need [6] - 11:2, 11:12, 80:14, 80:16 once [2] - 55:9, 102:14 47:11, 47:25, 47:26, 5:4, 10:12, 11:2, 46:6, 28:6, 28:23, 29:27, 73:6 O'Loan [1] - 16:21 one [46] - 2:11, 2:17, 48:17, 48:28, 51:24, 46:8, 51:10, 66:23, 78:5 needed [3] - 28:4, 28:29, O'SULLIVAN [1] - 80:10 2:19, 10:28, 11:13, 52:3, 53:3, 53:5, 53:10, murderer [4] - 41:22, 52:24 object [1] - 71:3 12:2, 15:18, 16:6, 53:11, 53:15, 53:19, 41:24, 42:8, 85:21 needs [4] - 54:11, 68:20, objection [1] - 91:30 17:23, 21:9, 24:7, 57:23, 62:21, 63:14, murders [49] - 3:8, 3:21, 70:6 objective [1] - 25:13 28:26, 33:17, 33:20, 63:25, 64:13, 65:4, 4:1, 6:15, 6:16, 11:5, negate [1] - 50:15 obligation [2] - 67:11, 35:23, 36:6, 41:1, 41:5, 65:17, 65:20, 65:24, 11:9, 11:11, 12:12, negotiations [2] - 4:6, 103:19 43:3, 44:16, 45:11, 66:15, 68:15, 72:14, 15:25, 15:26, 15:30, 83:21 observations [1] - 17:7 52:10, 55:17, 57:28, 72:19, 75:20, 76:12, 76:19, 76:28, 77:19, 17:26, 18:29, 22:30, neighbouring [1] - 20:24 obviously [13] - 6:11, 57:29, 63:17, 66:20, 23:15, 25:28, 30:20, never [29] - 12:18, 12:20, 7:30, 8:26, 11:18, 34:8, 68:5, 73:18, 75:13, 77:21, 77:22, 78:27, 30:21, 31:22, 34:29, 16:27, 17:2, 17:5, 34:14, 54:25, 71:15, 75:17, 75:21, 76:3, 79:12, 79:21, 95:22, 35:13, 38:3, 42:21, 21:30, 22:16, 30:29, 82:15, 82:17, 86:5, 83:19, 84:2, 86:15, 98:18 46:15, 47:18, 47:20, 38:16, 41:23, 41:24, 87:9, 87:13 87:4, 88:15, 90:16, own [19] - 4:24, 5:3, 10:4, 18:16, 23:8, 24:18, 48:2, 49:16, 50:29, 42:6, 42:7, 51:16, occasion [8] - 16:9, 91:10, 93:2, 95:11, 51:17, 52:30, 68:16, 52:29, 57:7, 57:22, 17:23, 41:28, 60:23, 97:12, 98:16, 101:28, 37:10, 38:26, 40:25, 68:19, 71:12, 73:3, 57:23, 72:5, 81:13, 75:14, 85:30, 88:10, 103:28 55:5, 56:25, 58:16, 83:4, 83:6, 83:22, 81:17, 82:5, 84:11, 98:16 one-time [1] - 87:4 59:14, 63:26, 68:9, 76:2, 84:4, 85:20, 88:10 85:16, 85:18, 86:24, 84:26, 84:29, 85:9, occasionally [1] - 69:29 ones [2] - 17:27, 66:23 90:7, 90:21, 99:11, owned [1] - 47:25 85:10, 96:16, 102:12 occasions [11] - 7:14, onwards [1] - 52:7 100:5, 100:6, 101:4, Newry [2] - 6:10, 57:20 14:27, 14:30, 17:17, open [5] - 41:16, 41:20, 101:13 News [1] - 86:30 27:16, 36:30, 49:25, 42:2, 70:14, 92:24 P must [8] - 19:18, 37:23, news [1] - 87:26 61:12, 73:27, 76:11, openly [1] - 92:2 p.m [1] - 10:17 39:13, 53:10, 63:9, newspaper [5] - 76:3, 88:6 operandi [2] - 36:27, 37:8 71:1, 96:11, 100:29 P.M [1] - 1:2 76:5, 76:6, 86:22 occurred [9] - 3:12, 4:1, operate [2] - 77:29, 78:1 page [6] - 46:30, 47:16, Myers [2] - 30:19, 93:18 Newspapers [1] - 76:9 22:29, 28:24, 46:18, operations [1] - 58:5 48:6, 48:19, 60:10, Myers' [4] - 30:13, 30:24, next [3] - 11:10, 62:14, 50:29, 76:13, 80:4, 97:7 opinion [10] - 8:7, 8:8, 93:10 30:27, 94:26 104:3 October [2] - 98:2, 102:3 55:23, 56:19, 62:1, paid [1] - 58:25 nobody [1] - 91:27 OF [3] - 1:1, 34:3 64:20, 64:25, 64:26, paper [2] - 7:25, 87:3 N nonetheless [2] - 70:25, offence [7] - 14:25, 65:1, 90:8 Parachute [1] - 11:29 77:28 21:30, 22:7, 22:15, opportunity [5] - 50:5, naively [1] - 64:1 paragraph [11] - 10:3, North [9] - 4:9, 15:2, 15:6, 22:28, 42:28, 43:11 50:30, 97:25, 102:5, naivety [1] - 64:4 11:10, 23:7, 29:21, 16:18, 16:23, 16:24, offences [2] - 22:12, 102:27 Name [1] - 9:17 47:2, 47:16, 48:6, 85:3, 60:13, 61:8, 91:29 45:23 opposed [3] - 25:24, name [31] - 2:22, 5:13, 94:3, 95:23, 99:30 Northern [10] - 10:19, offended [3] - 63:9, 26:17, 40:20 7:24, 7:29, 9:14, 12:19, paragraphs [1] - 92:29 14:8, 30:20, 37:11, 67:13, 79:4 orally [1] - 7:26 24:11, 27:7, 27:29, paramilitaries [1] - 83:15 59:21, 60:2, 73:28, offensive [1] - 79:2 order [3] - 21:22, 56:16, 30:3, 30:10, 35:5, 35:7, paraphrase [1] - 25:2 86:18, 88:3, 89:4 offer [1] - 103:23 95:30 35:14, 35:22, 41:21, paraphrased [1] - 9:28 note [3] - 48:19, 85:9, offhand [1] - 22:23 organisation [4] - 52:11, 43:28, 44:7, 49:18, pardon [1] - 74:29 100:29 office [3] - 14:8, 44:23, 52:20, 52:21, 52:26 49:20, 53:11, 54:25, parents' [1] - 13:5 noted [1] - 29:17 44:25 organised [2] - 43:17, 56:9, 68:28, 69:1, 69:3, park [10] - 46:18, 47:9, notes [13] - 44:17, 44:19, Officer [1] - 18:30 100:11 80:17, 81:4, 82:5, 50:21, 51:3, 51:7, 44:24, 44:25, 44:27, officer [8] - 19:8, 22:14, original [1] - 43:21 102:24, 102:29 51:12, 51:22, 53:16, 44:30, 45:4, 45:19, 22:27, 25:22, 25:30, originally [1] - 103:8 named [9] - 13:18, 14:3, 53:24, 54:9 48:20, 48:21, 48:22, 58:21, 83:24, 91:17 otherwise [1] - 85:1 22:11, 22:14, 22:27, Park [11] - 4:6, 15:26, 49:2, 80:18 Officers [2] - 98:29, 99:16 ought [2] - 38:17, 41:14 24:9, 24:15, 44:1, 70:20 19:10, 73:1, 83:21, nothing [5] - 52:6, 71:18, officers [26] - 3:2, 3:16, ourselves [1] - 62:22 names [1] - 87:8 97:15, 99:26, 102:2, 83:10, 99:2, 103:10 6:20, 10:11, 10:18, outcome [2] - 55:15, naming [13] - 20:18, 102:20, 103:5, 103:9 November [1] - 48:11 11:4, 11:6, 29:3, 31:15, 97:17 26:26, 28:9, 29:5, 29:7, Parliament [12] - 2:6, Nuala [1] - 16:20 53:7, 53:13, 61:28, outline [2] - 9:4, 23:11 30:1, 48:27, 65:4, 5:11, 21:26, 28:28, nuisance [2] - 7:17, 56:17 71:13, 78:1, 78:4, 78:5, outrageous [1] - 63:17 65:17, 65:20, 65:24, 45:14, 57:10, 65:11, nuisance" [1] - 55:28 78:25, 87:6, 87:16, outside [6] - 60:11, 61:5, 68:18, 68:24 71:21, 76:15, 77:3, number [16] - 4:2, 4:18, 87:22, 92:14, 94:8, 76:17, 76:27, 77:9, 87:1 Narrow [10] - 12:25, 13:5, 88:25 5:3, 6:29, 22:10, 30:19, 94:14, 100:19, 100:28, overly [1] - 59:14 13:8, 13:13, 87:18, parliament [2] - 21:9, 32:26, 34:28, 49:24, 101:16 overriding [1] - 69:7 88:27, 88:30, 89:24, 22:25 54:25, 56:20, 57:28, OK [5] - 25:6, 25:10, overtaken [1] - 3:28 91:13, 91:15 parliamentarian [3] - 60:2, 61:12, 81:28, 30:13, 31:3, 33:6 nature [8] - 12:8, 17:19, overview [1] - 95:25 22:4, 71:5, 89:12 82:18 Oliver [10] - 51:4, 51:5, overwhelming [2] - 10:8, 17:27, 43:2, 52:18, parliamentarians [3] - Number [2] - 54:28, 56:3 51:8, 51:9, 51:10, 63:3, 65:9, 83:19 23:9 21:14, 21:20, 37:3 51:26, 51:28, 52:13, Owen [65] - 2:22, 10:21, near [3] - 10:12, 11:29, parliamentary [6] - 63:18, 79:10, 94:16 101:12 O 14:11, 14:29, 20:6, 70:20, 70:24, 71:23, Oliver's [1] - 51:10 necessarily [2] - 13:24, 20:7, 20:16, 24:9, O'CALLAGHAN [6] - 76:14, 81:11 52:10 Omagh [5] - 16:10, 16:16, 24:11, 25:7, 26:26,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 10 part [10] - 11:17, 12:29, 82:15, 84:4 97:23 proceeded [1] - 65:15 26:22, 26:27, 26:29, 19:25, 40:19, 47:14, personally [3] - 37:10, possession [3] - 11:22, proceedings [6] - 16:7, 27:1, 27:3, 27:5, 27:6, 48:15, 50:24, 54:5, 55:9, 57:14 65:21, 90:9 22:25, 29:22, 31:9, 27:11, 27:23, 27:25, 61:10, 79:1 perspective [1] - 102:30 possibility [1] - 11:24 95:18, 95:25 27:26, 27:27, 28:4, partiality [1] - 54:3 persuading [1] - 102:10 possible [4] - 60:23, Process [2] - 3:30, 68:2 28:12, 28:18, 28:20, participation [1] - 102:1 Peter [1] - 5:17 82:30, 83:6, 101:19 produce [1] - 44:19 28:23, 33:6, 33:8, particular [18] - 2:19, 3:4, phone [2] - 36:8, 49:17 possibly [1] - 2:10 produced [3] - 96:23, 33:11, 38:5, 38:23, 3:7, 4:13, 6:16, 8:9, phones [1] - 82:22 post [1] - 70:11 98:2, 102:13 39:1, 39:21, 40:22, 10:19, 14:3, 17:22, photographs [1] - 75:10 posters [4] - 74:21, professional [4] - 55:12, 40:24, 41:30, 42:11, 18:5, 31:21, 35:14, physically [1] - 74:7 74:26, 74:27, 75:6 56:8, 56:10, 72:28 42:23, 42:24, 42:30, 47:12, 96:15, 97:27, piece [4] - 7:24, 31:13, posting [1] - 98:12 professionally [2] - 57:4, 46:19, 50:24, 55:24, 100:11, 101:4, 101:19 51:29, 101:19 potential [4] - 3:19, 12:9, 57:6 63:1, 63:5, 63:6, 63:21, particularly [1] - 57:29 pieces [2] - 32:8, 73:8 40:29, 74:17 profile [3] - 95:3, 95:14, 63:24, 64:8, 65:10, 65:14, 65:17, 65:22, parties [3] - 71:20, 91:11, pints [1] - 75:22 potentially [6] - 8:19, 95:21 66:11, 66:29, 67:3, 103:6 PIRA [9] - 5:5, 45:28, 12:13, 37:2, 42:28, proof [1] - 77:9 67:15, 68:8, 68:22, partly [2] - 38:20, 97:4 45:30, 93:4, 99:14, 69:6, 75:26 properly [3] - 38:15, 71:8, 79:14, 79:15, parts [1] - 23:6 100:5, 100:11, 101:17 power [1] - 21:25 76:22, 97:6 81:9, 89:15, 97:2, 97:7, party [3] - 30:25, 37:4, place [23] - 10:17, 11:9, powerful [3] - 31:20, proposition [1] - 31:30 101:25, 102:22, 102:30, 43:21 18:25, 46:22, 50:28, 31:26, 32:4 prosecute [1] - 43:12 103:4 pass [3] - 7:28, 7:29, 51:4, 51:7, 51:9, 51:12, precipitate [1] - 4:27 prosecution [2] - 27:22, publically [1] - 5:13 57:12 51:17, 53:29, 58:5, precisely [2] - 86:19, 42:29 publication [10] - 4:14, passed [12] - 3:20, 10:22, 58:27, 60:12, 61:7, 92:28 prosecutions [2] - 42:5, 4:20, 4:21, 4:28, 5:1, 26:2, 32:28, 35:12, 63:21, 76:15, 76:22, predicated [1] - 102:17 55:26 5:26, 15:28, 19:7, 23:2, 37:18, 44:8, 47:22, 77:4, 77:7, 79:16, prefaced [1] - 78:3 prosecutor [2] - 26:19, 90:23 53:6, 54:11, 100:17, 98:26, 99:14 prefer [1] - 17:8 26:27 publicise [1] - 18:24 100:27 placed [4] - 58:29, 61:17, preferred [1] - 95:11 protect [1] - 60:23 published [13] - 5:10, passing [5] - 6:18, 44:6, 63:1, 63:6 prejudice [1] - 40:18 protection [1] - 77:8 10:5, 18:22, 23:9, 46:23, 60:29, 98:21 places [1] - 77:5 preparatory [1] - 58:7 prove [2] - 41:17, 41:19 30:14, 35:29, 76:3, passport [1] - 95:4 planning [1] - 57:30 prepare [1] - 58:3 proved [1] - 10:29 81:17, 81:18, 84:13, passports [2] - 11:22, plausible [1] - 70:3 prepared [1] - 79:11 provenance [1] - 21:13 86:21, 92:20 95:7 played [1] - 85:7 present [2] - 44:16, 45:18 proves [1] - 40:26 publishers [1] - 74:27 past [4] - 22:11, 33:20, plays [1] - 93:1 presented [6] - 27:24, provide [3] - 5:9, 49:5, purports [1] - 86:22 37:16, 104:7 point [15] - 12:10, 27:14, 59:17, 60:7, 66:10, 50:6 purpose [13] - 20:27, Patrick [9] - 16:11, 17:2, 29:24, 38:2, 41:9, 96:6, 101:7 provided [14] - 4:17, 27:2, 32:24, 39:19, 46:6, 46:20, 49:9, 42:14, 45:2, 51:30, presently [1] - 39:8 36:24, 46:4, 46:10, 41:17, 42:13, 48:9, 50:16, 69:21, 98:17, 52:1, 53:23, 54:3, 79:3, preserved [1] - 88:13 47:10, 48:27, 62:18, 60:1, 63:25, 68:17, 98:26 79:5, 88:30, 103:5 press [3] - 3:14, 15:18, 62:20, 69:8, 73:30, 70:26, 79:15, 79:28 Peace [2] - 3:30, 68:2 points [2] - 40:29, 88:5 15:23 77:23, 83:10, 90:17, pursue [5] - 15:21, 40:30, pending [1] - 11:20 police [35] - 3:2, 6:20, pressed [1] - 8:18 101:16 42:5, 79:17, 103:7 pension [2] - 18:14, 7:29, 10:13, 10:25, presumably [3] - 49:30, provides [1] - 62:16 pursued [6] - 15:20, 83:29 11:4, 12:1, 12:16, 75:17, 76:1 providing [3] - 42:20, 17:22, 38:6, 41:13, people [12] - 2:21, 18:5, 20:23, 20:24, 21:29, presume [5] - 10:5, 13:1, 52:14, 60:18 97:14, 103:4 27:13, 27:17, 44:24, 22:14, 22:27, 24:15, 34:11, 96:17, 100:8 provisional [1] - 87:6 pursuing [4] - 8:27, 58:30, 59:29, 60:3, 25:15, 29:3, 35:11, presumes [1] - 10:28 Provisional [31] - 4:19, 67:1, 81:12, 82:18, 12:11, 12:28, 36:2 37:1, 53:7, 58:4, 58:6, pretences [1] - 95:27 5:22, 5:23, 6:13, 32:16, 102:17 pursuit [2] - 42:23, 65:22 58:21, 61:28, 65:21, pretend [1] - 18:10 42:10, 44:6, 46:8, percent [1] - 41:5 78:24, 78:25, 81:7, pushing [1] - 15:25 pretty [1] - 42:1 46:24, 53:3, 53:4, 53:6, perfectly [2] - 52:24, 81:16, 82:8, 87:5, put [28] - 7:4, 16:15, prevent [2] - 10:26, 87:6 55:10, 55:17, 58:28, 65:16 90:25, 91:16, 91:28, 16:17, 24:24, 27:5, previous [2] - 43:29, 57:8 59:26, 60:18, 73:28, 35:3, 35:28, 40:7, 42:7, perhaps [7] - 3:24, 9:25, 92:13, 96:28 74:1, 74:21, 74:28, previously [4] - 18:15, 42:23, 58:5, 63:9, 10:2, 41:19, 82:18, Police [1] - 86:17 75:14, 75:22, 75:28, 22:29, 30:12, 47:4 63:10, 63:11, 64:26, 82:22, 86:28 policemen [1] - 49:9 78:29, 92:19, 93:4, primarily [1] - 25:23 66:22, 71:7, 74:21, Period [1] - 93:5 Policing [1] - 57:9 98:14, 98:22, 98:28, private [1] - 18:26 74:26, 74:29, 75:1, period [10] - 3:30, 9:24, policing [1] - 57:11 99:15 privilege [11] - 21:10, 75:2, 75:4, 75:6, 79:14, 18:7, 18:12, 22:26, political [9] - 3:16, 19:20, proximate [1] - 101:4 21:14, 35:19, 36:2, 82:20, 92:26, 98:4 28:2, 52:14, 91:26, 23:22, 38:6, 63:2, prudent [1] - 104:6 63:18, 70:20, 70:24, putting [4] - 24:11, 66:27, 96:27 63:26, 64:2, 82:15, pub [3] - 47:9, 47:25, 71:23, 76:14, 77:8, 83:12 persevered [1] - 58:24 103:6 81:11 47:27 persist [1] - 3:23 politician [1] - 27:19 pubically [3] - 7:27, privileged [2] - 81:10, Q person [20] - 2:21, 5:12, politicians [1] - 78:15 81:11 12:20, 16:2 6:24, 7:26, 8:9, 8:14, politics [2] - 2:11, 68:1 privileges [1] - 21:9 public [90] - 3:27, 4:1, queried [1] - 16:25 9:14, 14:3, 24:15, pose [2] - 11:25, 69:5 privy [1] - 81:16 5:15, 6:22, 8:5, 8:23, queries [1] - 11:17 25:18, 26:18, 29:15, posing [1] - 60:25 10:9, 10:20, 15:19, probative [5] - 31:26, question-mark [1] - 30:6, 30:9, 37:15, position [15] - 6:22, 7:3, 32:5, 38:8, 38:13, 51:21 16:4, 16:8, 17:13, 60:23 56:11, 59:7, 77:19, 8:12, 17:12, 17:15, 20:11, 20:13, 21:7, probe [1] - 26:21 questioned [5] - 15:5, 91:24, 96:8 50:13, 58:29, 61:17, 21:8, 21:23, 23:10, probed [2] - 26:16, 54:11 16:22, 17:5, 17:13, personal [6] - 13:8, 69:8, 71:17, 77:27, 24:12, 24:19, 25:14, probing [1] - 8:25 102:1 13:13, 13:22, 18:16, 78:20, 81:10, 89:11, 25:17, 26:19, 26:20, questions [11] - 11:2,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 11
20:6, 28:28, 28:29, 69:29, 70:9, 71:29, reliance [1] - 39:9 responsibility [4] - 15:21, saved [1] - 74:3 29:13, 41:6, 80:8, 82:7, 85:13, 100:4, relied [8] - 38:16, 38:18, 20:13, 21:26, 40:8 saw [2] - 35:28, 86:21 80:10, 80:12, 80:26, 100:16, 100:25, 101:14, 38:19, 55:29, 56:18, responsible [1] - 71:4 Scappaticci [3] - 47:7, 91:2 101:17 58:14, 99:27, 99:28 rest [1] - 104:16 80:17, 80:21 Quinn [1] - 69:21 receiving [1] - 36:21 reluctant [1] - 57:12 result [6] - 18:6, 30:24, scene [2] - 88:4, 88:13 quite [4] - 9:27, 58:6, recent [3] - 13:30, 100:1, rely [3] - 39:14, 39:15, 67:17, 67:19, 97:14, sceptical [1] - 85:21 74:11, 88:21 100:15 100:23 100:22 Scientist [1] - 88:2 quotation [1] - 87:3 recently [2] - 16:14, 30:17 relying [1] - 100:6 resulted [1] - 55:25 Scotland [1] - 58:5 quote [4] - 39:13, 85:2, recipients [2] - 95:7, 95:9 remain [2] - 52:25, 54:12 resume [1] - 33:21 screen [2] - 92:28, 98:5 86:23, 87:10 recognised [1] - 44:29 remained [1] - 16:3 RESUMED [1] - 1:1 SDU [1] - 95:30 quoted [3] - 32:21, 39:12, recollect [1] - 43:27 remarkable [1] - 48:13 retain [1] - 45:3 second [19] - 15:1, 41:28, 40:4 recollection [2] - 5:26, remember [1] - 26:11 retired [11] - 10:21, 14:10, 45:10, 45:18, 46:3, 69:23 remind [1] - 18:30 20:5, 20:16, 28:30, 46:13, 47:2, 47:3, R record [4] - 26:23, 49:2, remit [1] - 11:18 32:1, 41:23, 52:5, 47:15, 47:30, 48:25, 95:17, 95:25 remotely [1] - 36:17 52:17, 58:21, 73:16 48:28, 49:6, 50:3, 85:2, raise [7] - 11:12, 11:17, records [3] - 44:26, 72:6, repeat [2] - 76:18, 76:28 retirement [1] - 95:21 86:3, 94:22, 100:24 76:16, 83:29, 84:5, 72:11 repeated [3] - 35:30, return [1] - 10:19 secondly [5] - 23:30, 84:21, 87:17 recruited [3] - 6:4, 6:8, 64:19, 79:27 returned [2] - 10:12, 32:19, 36:11, 71:8, raised [17] - 4:23, 4:25, 98:12 repeating [1] - 76:4 51:24 103:30 11:23, 13:11, 14:15, refer [8] - 11:8, 11:20, replied [2] - 14:16, 32:17 reveal [4] - 29:19, 34:25, secured [1] - 103:5 14:17, 14:28, 18:13, 11:22, 13:13, 23:6, reply [1] - 72:2 34:26, 36:27 securing [2] - 79:15, 23:18, 38:2, 39:26, 47:14, 50:14, 70:18 report [26] - 9:28, 17:1, revealed [1] - 46:7 79:28 39:30, 45:27, 84:12, reference [1] - 2:14 32:12, 45:6, 70:18, revert [1] - 35:22 security [43] - 5:21, 7:5, 84:26, 85:10, 86:12 references [1] - 93:30 80:1, 86:21, 88:17, reverting [2] - 60:10, 61:4 7:10, 7:21, 7:23, 8:1, raising [3] - 21:4, 30:26, referred [19] - 16:9, 88:19, 92:20, 96:5, review [2] - 15:29, 90:24 8:9, 8:11, 8:20, 8:26, 84:27 16:10, 17:9, 24:14, 96:7, 96:23, 96:25, rhetorical [1] - 60:25 9:2, 9:3, 9:11, 9:15, range [3] - 38:18, 60:3, 29:21, 31:5, 31:27, 98:2, 100:1, 100:4, rights [1] - 66:7 23:24, 23:30, 24:6, 97:6 36:4, 41:28, 53:14, 100:19, 100:20, 100:25, Rights [2] - 21:16, 63:18 24:22, 24:26, 25:22, Rangers [1] - 6:6 61:14, 71:12, 80:18, 100:29, 101:4, 101:13, roads [1] - 100:10 25:30, 26:3, 26:7, rapidly [1] - 3:28 81:29, 94:5, 98:3, 101:27, 101:29, 102:13 role [10] - 8:17, 18:5, 26:10, 37:1, 37:7, rated [1] - 41:5 99:23, 99:28, 99:30 Report [5] - 29:17, 92:28, 25:17, 26:20, 42:19, 37:10, 45:8, 54:19, re [2] - 27:15, 91:3 referring [3] - 9:29, 10:6, 101:26, 102:3, 102:21 42:30, 43:8, 59:1, 85:8 57:11, 58:24, 61:17, RE [1] - 91:8 43:8 reported [2] - 26:12, Ronnie [3] - 16:30, 59:4, 69:9, 81:7, 81:16, 82:8, re-elected [1] - 27:15 reflect [1] - 67:12 92:21 59:7 86:8, 89:26, 90:12, re-examination [1] - 91:3 reflecting [1] - 13:2 reports [8] - 99:28, 100:1, Royal [8] - 6:6, 32:14, 90:22, 91:24, 92:7 RE-EXAMINED [1] - 91:8 refocused [1] - 4:24 100:3, 100:15, 101:6, 32:16, 45:6, 54:17, see [19] - 6:2, 8:4, 19:11, reached [4] - 21:1, 28:4, regard [9] - 12:18, 31:6, 101:12, 101:23, 102:18 54:24, 73:26, 77:16 20:30, 36:2, 41:16, 41:15, 97:5 55:8, 55:13, 55:19, represent [2] - 27:13, RUC [47] - 3:5, 10:11, 51:2, 54:27, 60:12, reaches [1] - 79:20 56:7, 57:3, 59:7, 94:20 27:17 10:27, 12:11, 12:13, 61:7, 73:22, 84:18, reaching [1] - 29:26 Regiment [1] - 11:29 representations [1] - 12:27, 14:22, 15:30, 86:27, 93:2, 94:28, reaction [1] - 93:19 regret [1] - 28:13 14:8 31:15, 40:20, 54:20, 96:7, 98:6, 103:1, 103:2 read [18] - 29:17, 30:13, regular [1] - 61:21 representative [14] - 59:20, 59:25, 59:30, seeing [1] - 50:30 30:17, 32:27, 34:8, regularly [1] - 61:29 6:22, 16:4, 20:11, 60:29, 61:2, 61:10, seek [4] - 25:9, 25:11, 34:11, 34:16, 37:30, reignited [2] - 4:25, 23:2 25:17, 26:19, 26:29, 61:12, 61:15, 61:21, 38:28, 43:9 49:30, 61:1, 72:16, reiterated [1] - 35:3 27:11, 39:1, 39:22, 61:30, 62:6, 62:15, seeking [1] - 40:20 84:14, 84:16, 86:28, relate [1] - 23:13 42:30, 63:21, 66:30, 62:26, 71:13, 77:12, seem [4] - 17:6, 33:2, 86:29, 87:15, 99:5, related [1] - 39:7 81:9, 102:30 77:27, 78:1, 78:4, 33:3, 60:22 101:29 relates [2] - 23:17, 52:28 representatives [1] - 82:30, 83:3, 83:12, senior [36] - 3:2, 3:16, reading [3] - 38:25, relating [7] - 4:18, 5:6, 17:24 83:15, 83:18, 83:23, 6:19, 7:5, 7:21, 7:22, 72:15, 84:7 11:27, 18:16, 83:3, representing [1] - 30:9 83:24, 88:17, 89:18, 7:29, 8:11, 10:11, real [1] - 5:13 83:17, 85:22 represents [1] - 36:18 89:21, 89:22, 90:6, 10:18, 11:4, 18:23, realisation [1] - 28:14 relation [26] - 2:19, 13:11, Republic [1] - 101:15 90:19, 94:8, 94:14, 18:24, 22:10, 23:23, reality [2] - 42:16, 42:18 18:14, 25:14, 48:20, requires [1] - 104:1 100:28, 101:16 23:30, 24:5, 24:22, really [2] - 13:16, 102:8 49:3, 49:22, 54:7, researched [3] - 22:18, rumour [1] - 27:30 24:26, 25:30, 26:7, reason [13] - 7:6, 15:19, 55:25, 62:20, 62:27, 22:21, 22:23 rumours [6] - 3:22, 12:4, 26:10, 29:3, 45:7, 15:24, 34:17, 35:10, 54:19, 58:20, 73:26, 82:2, 83:4, 83:9, 83:21, resides [1] - 16:23 71:18, 83:2, 83:9, 83:12 35:28, 40:30, 45:3, 77:16, 86:8, 89:26, 83:28, 88:24, 89:10, resile [3] - 27:28, 42:25, running [2] - 9:10, 14:7 50:24, 57:15, 76:21, 90:16, 90:21, 91:13, 68:12 Ryder [1] - 77:20 91:16, 91:24, 91:30, 77:6, 77:24 98:16, 99:14 91:16, 96:17, 96:18, resisted [1] - 37:7 reasonable [2] - 63:4, sense [1] - 41:8 97:19 resources [1] - 58:6 S 71:4 sensed [1] - 18:11 relayed [1] - 58:11 respect [14] - 24:23, reasons [5] - 10:9, 15:18, sadly [1] - 3:30 relevant [4] - 6:23, 28:10, 29:16, 31:22, 32:22, sensitive [1] - 10:26 18:1, 31:21, 82:15 sake [1] - 13:28 95:14, 95:22 35:19, 36:22, 40:18, sent [7] - 31:1, 69:15, reassess [1] - 36:13 samples [1] - 88:13 Relevant [1] - 93:7 44:24, 53:9, 54:15, 69:25, 70:6, 70:8, receive [1] - 83:8 satisfactorily [1] - 102:4 reliability [9] - 25:24, 56:26, 67:26, 94:5, 70:10, 72:18 received [17] - 8:14, 25:25, 26:18, 52:8, 95:18 satisfactory [1] - 102:5 sentence [1] - 61:1 34:27, 45:5, 49:10, satisfied [4] - 38:2, 59:15, [1] 54:5, 54:18, 56:18, response [3] - 8:13, September - 98:8 50:17, 69:16, 69:23, 58:13, 92:8 16:30, 92:12 97:2, 97:4 Sergeant [24] - 10:21,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 12
10:24, 11:21, 11:26, 78:9, 81:5, 81:24, 82:9, speech [31] - 2:27, 9:21, 100:18, 100:29 suit [1] - 104:9 14:10, 14:29, 20:5, 88:23 9:22, 9:25, 9:26, 9:29, station [3] - 24:15, 35:11, suited [1] - 64:2 20:15, 28:30, 41:23, SIR [1] - 2:1 11:23, 13:1, 15:1, 36:9 summarise [1] - 81:21 42:20, 46:20, 47:21, sit [2] - 104:6, 104:12 17:17, 19:21, 23:5, stationed [1] - 98:21 Summary [1] - 93:12 47:24, 52:16, 64:17, sits [1] - 48:6 23:7, 23:17, 23:19, statutory [1] - 76:14 summary [3] - 94:3, 96:3, 95:3, 95:15, 95:19, sitting [2] - 27:20, 41:13 27:8, 28:28, 30:21, step [1] - 24:16 99:9 95:22, 95:26, 96:1, situation [1] - 8:6 31:27, 45:27, 89:5, steps [5] - 6:27, 7:2, Sunday [1] - 76:8 98:27 six [3] - 44:26, 51:20, 90:5, 90:14, 90:20, 39:29, 63:4, 65:29 Superintendent [34] - sergeant [1] - 61:24 72:11 90:22, 90:23, 91:20, still [4] - 4:4, 7:26, 67:15, 10:10, 10:14, 10:15, series [2] - 58:1, 102:16 slightest [2] - 53:27, 91:21, 91:22, 92:22, 103:23 10:23, 11:1, 22:30, serious [7] - 8:30, 16:25, 70:28 103:8 stood [2] - 78:28, 97:22 23:1, 24:28, 31:22, 20:27, 22:28, 31:13, small [1] - 104:1 spoken [1] - 91:22 stopped [1] - 52:3 31:23, 34:29, 34:30, 55:16, 71:16 social [1] - 75:14 Staff [1] - 18:30 store [1] - 44:24 46:11, 46:12, 47:18, served [4] - 55:3, 57:19, solely [2] - 28:21, 39:24 stage [25] - 2:18, 8:25, stored [1] - 44:25 47:19, 63:15, 64:16, 66:18 solicitor [3] - 69:14, 70:6, 13:18, 13:25, 15:5, stories [1] - 7:15 64:20, 66:17, 70:22, service [2] - 95:17, 95:25 72:20 16:22, 16:24, 18:1, story [2] - 6:4, 92:9 79:22, 79:23, 90:26, Service [2] - 57:30, 58:8 solicitors [1] - 70:7 18:11, 20:18, 28:4, straight [1] - 38:24 94:14, 94:15, 98:25 services [5] - 8:9, 37:1, someone [14] - 3:19, 5:8, 45:2, 51:12, 65:4, 66:2, strengthen [1] - 21:7 supplementary [3] - 14:1, 81:16, 82:8, 91:29 5:20, 6:11, 16:1, 17:12, 69:8, 84:6, 88:18, strengthened [1] - 28:11 14:15, 91:25 88:20, 91:21, 96:12, serving [2] - 58:21, 73:14 18:4, 40:9, 46:10, strong [4] - 5:22, 6:10, supplied [1] - 100:7 set [3] - 3:12, 43:23, 52:20, 55:30, 57:13, 96:26, 97:5, 97:24, 65:9, 65:16 supply [1] - 73:18 97:26 102:16 71:16, 86:5 strongly [1] - 65:1 support [5] - 27:27, 28:5, stand [7] - 65:11, 66:1, setting [2] - 47:23, 49:5 sometime [1] - 5:30 subject [5] - 71:17, 83:16, 31:30, 32:30, 80:1 68:10, 68:27, 78:16, seventies [1] - 78:10 sometimes [2] - 16:23, 86:16, 93:14 supporting [2] - 27:2, 92:11, 101:10 several [5] - 4:8, 9:23, 16:24 subjected [2] - 41:30, 37:14 standing [2] - 2:26, 11:5, 84:17, 86:16 somewhere [1] - 101:15 78:25 suppose [4] - 4:24, 13:8, 100:23 severely [1] - 75:27 sorry [8] - 6:1, 29:13, submitted [1] - 40:24 31:3, 73:11 start [1] - 47:2 shape [1] - 71:11 36:7, 49:1, 51:11, subsequent [7] - 4:28, supposition [1] - 102:8 share [1] - 90:12 83:14, 96:24 started [1] - 102:18 16:9, 17:11, 44:11, surely [3] - 44:27, 44:29, shared [3] - 9:3, 12:13, sort [2] - 2:26, 93:29 State [2] - 73:19, 87:4 45:28, 46:18, 86:14 71:3 state [6] - 23:7, 47:3, 64:4 sought [10] - 7:7, 12:19, subsequently [14] - 4:22, surfaced [1] - 13:25 shooting [3] - 87:25, 25:12, 32:13, 38:29, 58:9, 62:14, 74:26, 77:3 9:20, 15:5, 16:20, surprise [6] - 15:17, 100:26, 100:28 42:7, 43:20, 51:16, statement [81] - 13:27, 19:15, 19:18, 25:26, 16:27, 60:12, 61:6, shortly [1] - 12:3 63:2, 72:26 18:28, 19:2, 19:9, 31:8, 34:18, 49:25, 92:22, 101:2 shot [1] - 87:23 sound [1] - 56:11 19:22, 19:23, 21:28, 58:8, 58:18, 69:2, 92:20 surprised [3] - 15:22, 29:21, 29:23, 36:24, show [1] - 92:28 source [12] - 11:14, substance [1] - 36:19 22:28, 92:15 41:3, 42:13, 46:25, sick [3] - 52:4, 53:28, 23:30, 29:5, 29:6, substantial [2] - 76:6, surprising [1] - 40:15 46:27, 47:14, 48:8, 54:15 29:30, 30:3, 49:10, 96:10 surrounding [4] - 13:17, 48:9, 48:11, 48:14, side [4] - 12:10, 87:23, 50:17, 50:18, 55:29, substantiate [1] - 87:14 17:26, 25:28, 28:1 48:17, 48:18, 49:1, 88:5, 100:14 59:11, 86:8 substantive [1] - 40:28 surveillance [1] - 82:20 49:2, 49:4, 49:5, 49:12, sides [1] - 90:25 sources [5] - 24:8, 24:14, subversives [3] - 70:29, suspect [1] - 17:2 49:13, 49:15, 49:27, signature [3] - 46:30, 34:26, 35:27, 93:19 74:29, 78:11 suspected [1] - 88:5 49:28, 50:7, 50:12, 49:27, 49:30 south [18] - 3:4, 3:6, 4:18, success [1] - 102:10 suspicion [1] - 4:3 50:19, 51:1, 51:2, signed [3] - 48:11, 48:23, 5:3, 5:4, 5:7, 5:23, sued [1] - 76:5 suspicions [1] - 3:25 51:20, 53:12, 53:14, 49:30 10:29, 11:5, 15:13, sufficient [3] - 33:21, SW1 [1] - 69:27 58:14, 60:9, 60:10, significance [1] - 6:21 16:23, 16:24, 45:27, 59:17, 65:19 swallowed [1] - 64:2 62:1, 62:3, 62:7, 62:10, significant [10] - 6:23, 45:30, 78:1, 92:17, sufficiently [1] - 65:9 SWORN [1] - 2:1 62:24, 64:7, 64:13, 31:17, 31:19, 32:8, 94:29 suggest [26] - 25:3, 25:4, sympathies [3] - 10:25, 64:28, 65:3, 65:5, 38:8, 38:13, 41:4, 41:8, South [1] - 94:22 25:5, 28:16, 31:20, 64:14, 64:17 65:15, 66:2, 66:18, 50:21, 74:11 southern [4] - 12:10, 32:11, 33:20, 39:10, systemic [1] - 12:21 67:17, 67:19, 67:22, signing [1] - 50:1 12:15, 87:23, 88:5 40:15, 40:17, 40:18, systems [1] - 55:5 69:13, 72:20, 72:29, similar [2] - 93:30 speaking [3] - 18:2, 42:12, 43:10, 50:25, 72:30, 73:10, 79:23, similarly [3] - 32:4, 33:7, 25:22, 25:26 51:17, 60:4, 62:3, 80:20, 82:30, 91:18, T 62:5 speaks [2] - 100:26, 63:13, 64:22, 66:26, 94:1, 98:4, 98:7, 99:23, simple [1] - 29:29 101:14 70:3, 77:6, 78:24, table [1] - 93:12 99:25, 99:27, 101:22, simply [9] - 26:17, 26:22, Special [3] - 40:4, 57:20, 88:22, 88:29, 100:5 talks [2] - 19:9, 101:13 101:23, 102:14, 102:15, 42:8, 55:21, 60:25, 98:19 suggested [5] - 7:13, Taoiseach [1] - 30:26 102:18 64:19, 64:26, 78:20, specific [11] - 5:29, 12:9, 37:16, 52:29 tap [1] - 37:5 statement.. [1] - 99:5 81:10 17:20, 35:7, 51:15, suggesting [14] - 20:22, targeted [1] - 82:18 statements [5] - 20:10, singled [1] - 13:19 54:8, 62:16, 62:18, 38:9, 38:13, 40:1, 61:9, task [2] - 8:27, 46:1 37:9, 40:22, 75:17, 79:2 Siochana [29] - 12:18, 73:15, 83:10, 83:17, 61:10, 61:11, 66:23, TD [2] - 93:24, 93:25 stating [7] - 32:21, 62:10, 14:21, 16:1, 32:2, 32:3, 85:8 70:1, 70:2, 75:2, 78:13, team [1] - 57:21 62:25, 63:13, 74:22, 32:13, 32:19, 35:5, specifically [5] - 16:11, 81:22, 82:30 technical [6] - 10:28, 74:29, 75:10 35:8, 40:19, 51:29, 23:15, 29:20, 67:10, suggestion [3] - 3:23, 31:23, 32:15, 36:8, Station [12] - 10:30, 52:4, 52:5, 52:7, 52:15, 96:30 53:27, 60:4 37:13, 37:16 31:25, 32:16, 37:15, 62:5, 70:30, 73:13, specifics [1] - 8:17 suggestions [1] - 77:10 technology [1] - 36:16 46:10, 47:22, 49:11, 73:17, 74:7, 74:16, speculation [2] - 3:15, suggests [4] - 31:28, Telegraph [2] - 4:16, 50:18, 98:30, 99:17, 75:25, 75:28, 77:29, 3:18 51:21, 72:4, 100:10 70:19
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 9 December 2011 - Day 64 13 telephone [3] - 31:24, 51:9, 51:26, 51:28, 11:4, 13:7, 14:27, 37:24, 42:26, 54:18, William [3] - 5:2, 5:5, 50:15, 100:17 52:13, 79:10, 94:16 14:30, 17:21, 17:25, 62:29, 71:7 45:16 telephoned [2] - 98:28, took [22] - 6:25, 10:17, 18:20, 29:3, 31:15, verbally [1] - 84:5 willing [3] - 7:24, 7:25, 99:15 11:9, 18:25, 24:16, 31:21, 33:20, 36:3, verification [1] - 24:23 8:2 ten [3] - 33:20, 97:28, 39:29, 45:19, 46:22, 37:22, 37:27, 38:7, verify [3] - 7:2, 56:22, willingness [1] - 16:2 104:7 50:28, 51:3, 51:7, 51:9, 45:11, 45:28, 46:8, 62:29 wire [1] - 37:5 tenor [1] - 84:25 51:12, 51:17, 53:29, 49:9, 51:25, 52:5, vernacular [1] - 9:8 wire-tap [1] - 37:5 term [1] - 7:20 58:28, 58:30, 65:29, 52:30, 53:7, 53:13, victims [4] - 5:7, 17:24, withdraw [1] - 79:11 terms [12] - 2:14, 6:14, 66:30, 98:26, 99:13 57:7, 71:13, 72:4, 18:6, 18:21 withdrawing [1] - 79:24 8:28, 25:6, 26:14, torture [1] - 87:8 74:12, 76:11, 80:19, victims' [2] - 5:2, 17:29 WITHDREW [1] - 103:26 30:29, 31:12, 38:8, totally [1] - 18:15 80:20, 87:5, 87:15, view [8] - 25:26, 41:2, Witness [5] - 54:28, 56:3, 68:29, 72:5, 74:11, touch [1] - 89:20 88:5, 88:6, 100:16, 51:30, 53:23, 54:3, 56:29, 57:19, 73:22 97:10 towers [1] - 36:6 100:28, 101:6 67:26, 79:3, 79:5 WITNESS [5] - 20:2, terrorist [2] - 45:23, 59:21 tracks [1] - 75:26 type [3] - 36:17, 59:5, viewed [1] - 88:9 80:14, 81:1, 91:8, Terrorist [1] - 93:4 train [1] - 102:16 71:1 vile [1] - 71:17 103:26 terrorists [1] - 94:3 training [1] - 6:7 village [1] - 2:29 witness [6] - 1:4, 56:18, THE [10] - 1:1, 20:2, transfer [1] - 95:30 U violence [2] - 69:11, 58:14, 69:19, 91:2, 33:23, 34:1, 80:14, transferred [1] - 62:24 78:29 103:28 Ulster [7] - 32:14, 32:16, 81:1, 91:8, 103:26, transpired [1] - 5:12 visit [1] - 100:29 woman [1] - 100:18 45:6, 54:17, 54:24, 104:20 traumatised [1] - 67:20 voluntarily [1] - 35:27 wondering [1] - 86:24 73:26, 77:16 themselves [4] - 12:27, travel [2] - 58:1, 104:10 word [2] - 46:9, 99:21 unconnected [1] - 18:15 77:28, 88:12, 103:23 travelling [1] - 58:4 words [4] - 9:7, 25:1, under [5] - 70:23, 78:4, W THEN [2] - 33:23, 103:26 Treason [1] - 74:22 42:6, 64:29 82:20, 87:8, 103:18 Walter [4] - 7:19, 55:30, then-Garda [1] - 47:21 treat [2] - 75:24, 75:30 world [1] - 78:25 undertaken [3] - 15:30, 59:5, 59:11 thereafter [2] - 8:24, treated [1] - 76:2 write [2] - 7:24, 70:25 90:24, 96:30 wanted" [1] - 74:30 52:19 trial [1] - 43:4 writing [1] - 85:12 unfair [1] - 33:3 wants [1] - 63:10 thereby [1] - 42:15 tribunal [1] - 39:21 written [4] - 9:17, 50:7, unfortunately [2] - 67:9, therefore [7] - 13:16, war [1] - 85:8 TRIBUNAL [4] - 1:1, 77:13 84:18, 85:10 warrant [1] - 59:18 23:26, 41:10, 52:15, 33:23, 34:1, 104:20 wrote [3] - 30:25, 84:1, unfounded [2] - 12:5, warranted [3] - 16:8, 71:4, 102:29, 103:3 [43] 84:3 Tribunal - 2:15, 2:18, 71:17 thinking [1] - 2:25 2:20, 4:8, 7:22, 8:1, 8:3, 65:9, 65:21 ungraded [1] - 100:19 third [7] - 23:7, 47:2, 17:18, 26:21, 28:15, Warrenpoint [4] - 11:29, unit [3] - 46:8, 58:4, 87:7 Y 47:16, 48:6, 71:19, 31:10, 32:11, 32:12, 12:6, 13:7, 87:18 Unit [2] - 57:30, 58:8 88:9, 101:13 32:29, 37:9, 37:28, WAS [5] - 2:1, 20:2, yards [1] - 4:22 units [1] - 46:2 thirdly [1] - 24:3 38:15, 39:19, 41:13, 80:14, 81:1, 91:8 year [9] - 14:28, 19:28, unlawful [1] - 86:6 threat [4] - 69:5, 69:11, 43:5, 43:8, 43:9, 44:29, watch [1] - 36:6 45:2, 53:29, 86:22, unmarked [1] - 11:14 74:17, 78:5 45:1, 46:27, 46:28, watchtowers [1] - 10:29 91:25, 92:16, 96:11, unnamed [1] - 24:14 threatened [2] - 73:27, 49:14, 50:10, 50:12, Water [10] - 12:26, 13:5, 96:12 unreliability [1] - 57:27 74:4 57:16, 59:19, 65:28, 13:9, 13:14, 87:19, year-and-a-half [1] - UNTIL [1] - 104:20 three [9] - 23:26, 24:8, 73:29, 76:22, 76:23, 88:27, 89:1, 89:24, 53:29 unusual [2] - 61:27, 27:15, 45:11, 57:15, 91:19, 99:23, 100:8, 91:13, 91:15 years [22] - 3:23, 4:11, 70:10 99:28, 100:1, 100:15, 101:3, 101:8, 101:12, weapons [1] - 58:3 5:6, 9:24, 44:26, 52:6, up [32] - 2:24, 2:27, 3:12, 101:23 101:18, 103:20 Wednesday [2] - 104:3, 52:22, 67:15, 72:1, 7:15, 39:19, 43:23, threw [1] - 75:22 Tribunals [1] - 4:9 104:7 72:8, 72:11, 73:13, 45:2, 47:23, 50:1, tie [1] - 51:19 Trimble [3] - 30:25, week [1] - 62:14 73:15, 78:30, 82:27, 55:10, 55:25, 58:9, time-line [1] - 50:27 30:30, 37:4 weeks [5] - 45:11, 51:4, 84:17, 86:17, 97:27, 62:2, 68:6, 68:16, 97:28, 100:16, 100:25, timing [1] - 10:19 Troubles [3] - 3:4, 10:12, 51:8, 79:9, 100:4 69:17, 74:21, 74:26, 101:5 tip [8] - 9:7, 44:9, 46:9, 12:29 weigh [1] - 39:19 74:29, 75:1, 75:3, 75:4, yes.. [1] - 60:15 46:15, 48:3, 48:16, true [5] - 54:13, 72:16, weighing [1] - 68:6 75:6, 75:22, 75:27, 99:19 91:23, 92:7, 102:14 welfare [1] - 5:6 yesterday [1] - 77:20 77:10, 78:16, 78:28, young [2] - 2:10, 87:22 tip-off [8] - 9:7, 44:9, truth [8] - 20:28, 26:24, well-acquainted [1] - 91:14, 92:26, 96:27, 46:9, 46:15, 48:3, 29:2, 33:5, 42:1, 42:6, 77:19 yourself [3] - 44:14, 98:5 48:16, 99:19 66:8, 68:1 well-informed [1] - 31:12 86:10, 89:18 upset [1] - 67:13 tipped [2] - 32:4, 42:15 try [8] - 25:23, 28:17, well.. [1] - 70:5 urgent [1] - 71:8 tipping [1] - 29:24 38:26, 39:29, 58:7, Westminster [1] - 44:26 useful [1] - 77:23 title [2] - 93:1, 93:10 60:23, 63:4, 76:25 Weston [11] - 4:6, 15:26, Toby [18] - 4:16, 10:6, trying [5] - 25:24, 29:1, 19:9, 73:1, 83:21, 23:20, 31:4, 31:6, 29:14, 63:25, 78:8 V 97:15, 99:26, 102:2, 102:20, 103:5, 103:9 31:11, 32:23, 32:30, Tuesday [1] - 104:18 Valley [1] - 2:7 whatsoever [2] - 43:29, 34:7, 37:22, 38:19, TUESDAY [1] - 104:20 value [3] - 36:2, 38:8, 39:3, 39:7, 39:25, 79:7, turn [1] - 100:3 38:14 59:3 whereas [1] - 78:5 81:26, 94:19, 94:23 turned [1] - 20:24 valued [2] - 75:24, 75:30 whereby [1] - 44:23 today [12] - 15:10, 41:13, turning [1] - 89:2 variety [1] - 28:24 whilst [1] - 51:25 48:10, 50:6, 50:11, twelve [1] - 72:1 various [3] - 91:11, 93:19, 68:14, 80:16, 81:30, twenty [1] - 104:15 102:18 whole [1] - 41:2 widely [1] - 37:11 88:28, 97:26, 103:18, twice [2] - 6:29, 7:1 vehicle [5] - 11:15, 46:21, 103:28 two [46] - 3:2, 3:5, 3:7, 46:22, 66:14, 68:21 wife [3] - 67:16, 75:12, [9] 75:20 Tom - 51:4, 51:5, 51:8, 3:16, 6:19, 9:22, 10:11, veracity [6] - 26:21,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.