A P P E A R A N C E S
The Sole Member: His Honour Judge Peter Smithwick
For the Tribunal: Mrs. Mary Laverty, SC Mr. Justin Dillon, SC Mr. Dara Hayes, BL Mr. Fintan Valentine, BL
Instructed by: Jane McKevitt Solicitor
For the Commissioner of An Garda Siochana: Mr. Diarmuid McGuinness, SC Mr. Michael Durack, SC Mr. Gareth Baker, BL
Instructed by: Mary Cummins CSSO
For Owen Corrigan: Mr. Jim O'Callaghan, SC Mr. Darren Lehane, BL
Instructed by: Fintan Lawlor Lawlor Partners Solicitors
For Leo Colton: Mr. Paul Callan, SC Mr. Eamon Coffey, BL
Instructed by: Dermot Lavery Solicitors For Finbarr Hickey: Fionnuala O'Sullivan, BL
Instructed by: James MacGuill & Co.
For the Attorney General: Ms. Nuala Butler, SC Mr. Douglas Clarke, SC
Instructed by: CSSO
For Freddie Scappaticci: Eavanna Fitzgerald, BL Pauline O'Hare
Instructed by: Michael Flanigan Solicitor
For Kevin Fulton: Mr. Neil Rafferty, QC
Instructed by: John McAtamney Solicitor
For Breen Family: Mr. John McBurney
For Buchanan Family/ Heather Currie: Ernie Waterworth McCartan Turkington Breen Solicitors
For the PSNI: Mark Robinson, BL
NOTICE: A WORD INDEX IS PROVIDED AT THE BACK OF THIS TRANSCRIPT. THIS IS A USEFUL INDEXING SYSTEM, WHICH ALLOWS YOU TO QUICKLY SEE THE WORDS USED IN THE TRANSCRIPT, WHERE THEY OCCUR AND HOW OFTEN. EXAMPLE: - DOYLE [2] 30:28 45:17 THE WORD “DOYLE” OCCURS TWICE PAGE 30, LINE 28 PAGE 45, LINE 17 I N D E X
Witness Page No. Line No.
WITNESS M
EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY 2 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS 27 1
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN 34 29
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY 47 8
CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. ROBINSON 54 28 Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 1
1 THE TRIBUNAL RESUMED ON THE 14TH OF JUNE, 2012, AT 11 A.M.
2 AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 MR. HAYES: Chairman, to commence this morning, this
5 morning's evidence, there is a witness in Belfast who will
6 give evidence by video-link, and Mrs. Laverty is there to
7 examine him, and I think that is ready to proceed.
8
9 CHAIRMAN: Oh, good. Thank you very much.
10
11 MRS. LAVERTY: Good morning, Chairman. I am here with
12 Witness M, and he is ready to take the oath. He doesn't
13 wish to be facially recognised, Chairman, for security
14 reasons, so for that reason you will be stuck with seeing
15 me for the duration of his interview.
16
17 CHAIRMAN: That will be very nice. And what cipher is he
18 being known by?
19
20 MR. HAYES: M, I believe.
21
22 CHAIRMAN: M. Right. 23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 2
1 WITNESS M, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS EXAMINED BY MRS. LAVERTY
2 AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 1 Q. MRS. LAVERTY: Now, I think, Witness M, that you spent your
5 career in Customs in the North of Ireland, is that correct?
6 A. That's correct, Mr. Chairman.
7 2 Q. And you were part of a new investigation unit set up in
8 about 1974?
9 A. That is correct, yes.
10 3 Q. And was there a particular distinction between your unit in
11 the Customs and Excise and, perhaps, previous ones?
12 A. That's correct. We were formed in 1974, in Belfast, and we
13 were responsible for the investigation of offences
14 throughout Northern Ireland.
15 4 Q. And I think that you were British civil servants, well, as
16 against Northern Ireland, shall we say, originally?
17 A. That's correct, we were British civil servants and not
18 Northern Ireland civil servants.
19 5 Q. And were you run out of a part of England, were you -- were
20 your bosses in England or were they in the north?
21 A. Yes, the headquarters was in London, and we had a regional
22 office which covered Glasgow, from Glasgow, and they would
23 come over from time to time as well. But the collection
24 and investigation unit at that time was operated solely in
25 Belfast to cover anti-smuggling, et cetera.
26 6 Q. Yes. And I think that you ended up very high up in the
27 unit, without identifying where you were in the hierarchy
28 of the unit, is that correct?
29 A. That's correct, I was a senior officer in the unit.
30 7 Q. Yes. And I think that in 1988, there was a change in
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 3
1 monetary compensation amounts, which led to a lot more
2 monetary gain paid on exports, and that had a big impact
3 for Customs, is that correct?
4 A. That's correct.
5 8 Q. And how did that impact on people who were tending to
6 smuggle?
7 A. Well, it meant that if you purchased cattle in Northern
8 Ireland and you took them to the Republic of Ireland, you
9 would have to pay about a hundred pound per beast on each
10 animal as they crossed the border at the point of Customs,
11 both export and import. In this particular case, what they
12 did was, the load of cattle would be brought to the border
13 and they went into the yard on the border, and the cattle
14 in Northern Ireland are all tagged in the right ear and in
15 the Republic of Ireland they are tagged in the left ear, so
16 the first objective for the smugglers was to remove --
17 cause the tags to be removed from the right ear of each
18 animal and then, subsequently, move them along a bit and
19 insert Republic of Ireland tags, which they had obtained
20 either from meat plants which were disregarding tags after
21 the animals were slaughtered there, or, from other people,
22 farmers who maybe were deceased or no longer required their
23 herd books, they got into the hands of them sometimes as
24 well.
25 9 Q. And were they camouflaged, the fact that there had been an
26 original tag?
27 A. Yes. Once they removed the tags from the right ear, that's
28 the Northern Ireland tags in the right ear, they then had a
29 bucket mixture, and they would have tried to cover it up
30 with all sorts of things to close off the incision in each
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 4
1 right ear of the animal. Thus, the animal, when they had
2 the other tags inserted, it left they were all -- they'd
3 become Republic of Ireland cattle as soon as they got
4 across the -- [loss of sound] -- of the border.
5 10 Q. I think the smuggling was not confined to cattle, I think
6 there were other products smuggled as well?
7 A. There were other products as well. Pigs would have been a
8 thing at that stage. They qualified for the £10 per pig.
9 The only thing there was, with the cattle, we had some more
10 better control over them because each animal was in the
11 respective farmer's herd book and, therefore, he had to
12 account for it whenever the Department of Agriculture
13 people came along; where is his stock. And he just kept
14 the thing. With pigs, they had no identity; each pig
15 looked the same north or south of the border and,
16 therefore, that was the problem. So the pigs would come
17 into the yard, and once they got into the yard, the tractor
18 unit, which would normally be the Northern Ireland unit,
19 bringing us into the yard, they would then would put on a
20 tractor unit from the Republic of Ireland and drive out
21 with a lorry laden with pigs bearing the Republic of
22 Ireland registration plates. And if they were stopped then
23 up the road, they were coming from the person in the
24 Republic of Ireland.
25 11 Q. And I think fuel was another item that was --
26 A. Yes, fuel was a big business as well, and they were --
27 people from Northern Ireland, usually if the fuel was a
28 lesser cost in the south, each person would have went down
29 and got his car filled with fuel and back up again. But
30 then, other people decided that they would bring up loads
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 5
1 of it into Northern Ireland and, therefore, there was a lot
2 of evasion of duty on the situation.
3 12 Q. When you talk about yards, bringing pigs or cattle into
4 yards, am I correct in thinking that these were the yards
5 of people who were actively involved in smuggling, who may
6 have been strategically positioned along the border
7 property-wise, is that correct?
8 A. Yes, in most cases the farms that we are referring to would
9 be south of the border. You would have part of the farm in
10 Northern Ireland, the dwelling house could be in the south
11 of Ireland and the yard itself could be in Northern
12 Ireland. So anybody going into trouble with, particularly
13 a vehicle laden with stuff into the Northern Ireland side
14 of the yard and then, subsequently, it would drive out the
15 other side, eventually to the Republic of Ireland.
16 13 Q. And how did the smugglers make their money then from these
17 transactions?
18 A. The smugglers made their money, they started off with
19 cattle, £100 per beast. Therefore, if you take away the
20 toll - there was a toll usually charged at these places for
21 about £2.50 per cow and £1 per pig - so if you'd a hundred
22 cattle, a hundred cattle, that would be a hundred £2.50s.
23 And the situation, the pigs were slightly different because
24 the pigs, once they went out and was brought back in then
25 illegally, they went out and was changed to effect again
26 from the south, most likely as this thing increased, the
27 lorry would be returned back into Northern Ireland by the
28 main route to Customs. And, therefore, cattle, pigs coming
29 back into Northern Ireland would qualify for a refund of
30 £10 per pig. So they did the car selling of pigs, maybe
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 6
1 two or three times the pig would be going around and
2 around. And that was a big problem.
3 14 Q. This was obviously very big money, then, was it?
4 A. Absolutely.
5 15 Q. Are we talking about a multi-million pound industry?
6 A. Yes, you would be talking about big, big money. In
7 particular, there was the cattle, there was the pigs, and
8 then there was the grain, and then there was also
9 importations of meat from the Republic of Ireland into
10 Northern Ireland, legally; they'd come to the Customs in
11 the south and then to the Customs in the north and they'd
12 declare -- but in due fact, when it was examined by Customs
13 or Department of Agriculture officials it was found that it
14 may be only trimmings, and they could take a load that
15 would be worth, maybe, eight to ten thousand pounds.
16 16 Q. What about cars, vehicles?
17 A. Car vehicles?
18 17 Q. Yes.
19 A. Car vehicles was slightly different, they were -- people
20 from the south of Ireland were able to come up and buy cars
21 in Northern Ireland or across in England, come across and
22 then take them down, and they would have a similar type of
23 charge, I understand, maybe in the south, which was
24 dropped, and then that car, then, would be transferred
25 over, the details over to that.
26 18 Q. I see. Now, I think that in your business, you obviously
27 needed a lot of back-up from other agencies, is that so?
28 A. That is correct.
29 19 Q. And who would you have had to rely on in the course of your
30 work?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 7
1 A. Initially, it was the RUC and then it became the PSNI, and
2 any time that we would be doing a job for any length of
3 time in a particular border crossing, we would always, in
4 advance, seek the assistance of the police and...
5 20 Q. What about the Republic, did you have close connections
6 with the Customs people in the south, without mentioning
7 names?
8 A. Yes, we had an ongoing working relationship between
9 Northern Ireland Customs investigation and the SIB Customs
10 in Dublin.
11 21 Q. I think that is the Special Investigation Branch?
12 A. Special Investigation Branch, yes.
13 22 Q. And were you both of necessity involved very closely in
14 operations on the border?
15 A. Oh, yes, yes, nearly on most operations you would be in
16 touch on a daily basis or maybe a weekly basis, depending
17 on the situation, and you would get the person that is
18 going to handle it from the south and you would exchange
19 the information, and then they would take steps to cover
20 their side of the border, and then we would go in on this
21 side of the border.
22 23 Q. And do Customs people from the south freely travel
23 backwards and forwards, exchanging information with you and
24 working with you?
25 A. Yes.
26 24 Q. And were there particular -- were there particular sort of
27 provisions that allowed you to carry on your work and get
28 more success -- more successfully in relation to, for
29 example, dispensations in crossing the border?
30 A. Well, we had an understanding, we had an understanding that
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 8
1 if we were in the border and we wanted to cross into the
2 border, we had a sort of a dispensation for to be able to
3 drive the car into the south and come back out again, and
4 the same thing would apply to them.
5 25 Q. And where was the most dangerous part of the province to
6 work in?
7 A. Well, the most dangerous part would have been maybe south
8 Armagh, one that comes to mind.
9 26 Q. I think that you were injured yourself in the cause of
10 your -- in the course of your duties at one point?
11 A. That's correct.
12 27 Q. And perhaps you might tell the Chairman about that?
13 A. Well, we went down -- I went down with three others, two
14 others in the car and another four people in another car
15 were further down the way and we were just going past the
16 Murphy property.
17 28 Q. Is this Murphy's in Ballybinaby?
18 A. Ballybinaby. Commonly known as Slab Murphy's property.
19 And we drove into the south. When we were coming back out
20 again we were assaulted by at least seven men, and we both
21 had to go to the doctor and then subsequently the hospital
22 for treatment.
23 29 Q. And what injuries did you sustain?
24 A. I received a burst eardrum and other minor injuries.
25 30 Q. I see. And do you know when that was?
26 A. Yes, it was on 1st of September 1978.
27 31 Q. I see. And were -- did you feel that you were under
28 serious threat at any other time during your career?
29 A. Any time you were working on the border, you found that you
30 were always under some restriction or threat of
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 9
1 investigation because people, whenever you are going to
2 seize property from them, sometimes they don't take it
3 lightly, so we had to make arrangements to ensure that we
4 had special back-up from the police or the PSNI, and the
5 same would apply down the south.
6 32 Q. Yes. Now, I think that -- did you know Harry Breen and Bob
7 Buchanan, incidentally?
8 A. Yes, I knew the late Mr. Breen very well.
9 33 Q. Did you have occasion to work with him in the course of
10 your work?
11 A. I had occasions to have discussions with him, mainly, and I
12 knew of Bob Buchanan, but I never had much contact with
13 him. Mr. Breen was in charge of the division in Armagh.
14 34 Q. I think that, in fact, you have an entry in your diary
15 which you have there, which suggests that or indicates that
16 you had a meeting, you were supposed to have a meeting with
17 Harry Breen on the 21st of March, which was the day after
18 his murder?
19 A. That is correct.
20 35 Q. And unfortunately, he didn't make that meeting. Now, did
21 you know at the time what that meeting was about; had you
22 been filled in about it?
23 A. I just understand this, that Mr. Breen was going down to
24 discuss with the Garda colleagues as to the smuggling
25 activity in that particular area.
26 36 Q. Do you know when you became aware of that, was it at the
27 time or afterwards or in advance?
28 A. It would have been probably a good while before that and
29 leading up to that, that there was activity in that
30 particular area in relation to smuggling.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 10
1 37 Q. Yes. Now, can you tell us about 'Operation Amazing'?
2 A. 'Operation Amazing'?
3 38 Q. Yes.
4 A. Yes. The 'Operation Amazing' was more or less for, a team
5 from Glasgow, they would come over to Northern Ireland and
6 they would have selected and assisted with the
7 investigation of certain targets, and that was what the
8 operation was named, for the smuggling of grain from
9 Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland, and vice
10 versa.
11 39 Q. I think am I correct in thinking that it was called amazing
12 after the word for grain, maize?
13 A. That's correct.
14 40 Q. And this would have started sometime in the '80s, is that
15 correct?
16 A. Yes, it was going for a long time, I understand.
17 41 Q. And at periods of time various people, various smugglers
18 were targeted?
19 A. That is correct.
20 42 Q. Am I correct in that in November of 1988, one particular
21 family of smugglers had been targeted in south Armagh?
22 A. That's correct.
23 43 Q. And searches were carried out in cooperation with the
24 southern Special Investigation Branch?
25 A. That's correct.
26 44 Q. And I think that there was a second, I see from diary
27 entries that there was a second search scheduled, I think
28 for the 21st of March, in another south Armagh smuggler?
29 A. Yes, that's correct. There was a knock supposed to be
30 taking place on the Tuesday, the 21st of March.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 11
1 45 Q. I think a knock is what you referred to, the operation, a
2 sting in the operation?
3 A. A sting in the operation, yes.
4 46 Q. And that was not on Mr. Murphy's land; it was on another
5 south Armagh property?
6 A. That's correct.
7 47 Q. And am I correct in thinking that that obviously had to be
8 cancelled --
9 A. Because of the deaths.
10 48 Q. -- because of the deaths, yes. So there was a build-up,
11 am I right in thinking there was a build-up at this stage
12 building up to perhaps a search or an operation against
13 'Slab' Murphy?
14 A. That's correct.
15 49 Q. And the Tribunal is aware, Witness M, that this particular
16 visit by Superintendent Buchanan and Chief Superintendent
17 Breen seems to have originated as a result of a dinner that
18 Mr. Breen attended on the 6th of March, 1989, in Stormont
19 Castle. The Tribunal has heard evidence that the Secretary
20 of State, Tom King, army personnel, and some -- a
21 particular Colonel, were present at this dinner. And the
22 subject of lorries transversing the Murphy property was
23 brought up, and there was some agitation or annoyance about
24 that, and it was indicated that something should be done
25 about it. Did you hear about that at the time?
26 A. Yes, I think I heard it shortly after that, that they were
27 wanting something done about the ongoing smuggling in
28 particular areas of south Armagh.
29 50 Q. Yes. And I think on the 7th of March, from our records,
30 and have already been put into the Tribunal, a Security
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 12
1 Policy Meeting took place of the Chief Constable, the
2 general officer in command and others, to discuss this
3 particular situation that had been raised by the Secretary
4 of State. And I will refer you to a document which
5 Mr. Mills has a copy of there in court; it's HMG Document
6 58. It has already been opened to the Tribunal. And that
7 seems to consist of the minutes of this particular meeting.
8 And I will just read it to you, Witness M, to see what your
9 views are on that. Is it up on the screen, Mr. Mills?
10
11 MR. MILLS: Yes.
12
13 MRS. LAVERTY: Thank you.
14 51 Q. It's addressed to the Under Secretary Law and Order
15 Division, Stormont House, Belfast. And it's "Dear..." --
16 it's undated, and I'm not sure who the recipient is. It's
17 indicated "Murphy's farm".
18
19 "The Secretary of State mentioned" - blank - "observations
20 about 'Slab' Murphy and his smuggling operations in south
21 Armagh at the SPM yesterday."
22
23 Now, the SPM would have been the Security Policy Meeting,
24 which took place on the 7th of March, which obviously this
25 was the 8th of March.
26
27 "I have looked into the particular incident mentioned - 28
28 tankers over a 60-hour period, netting an alleged profit of
29 14K per vehicle - and now report back as requested.
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 13
1 "The survey was made by the Glassdrumman Observation Tower,
2 G30, during a completely random survey between 0001 hours
3 on the 27th of February and 1200 hours on 1st of March,
4 1989. The bald facts that emanate from the survey are as
5 noted by the Secretary of State and there is nothing
6 further to add, except to confirm that the tanker's content
7 ands the alleged profit were as a result of informed
8 speculation rather than firm evidence."
9
10 So obviously there is a query there in relation to what was
11 alleged at the dinner.
12
13 It goes on to say there: "The question that the Secretary
14 of State raised specifically - who was told and what, if
15 anything, was done about it, is answered as follows:
16 Before embarking on the detail, however, it is important to
17 establish the context of Murphy's operations. You will, I
18 know, be aware that Murphy has been conducting his illicit
19 business for some years. He has, by a number of methods,
20 thwarted several attempts, including concerted RUC and
21 Garda efforts to shut him down.
22 All this is well-documented fact and such has been his
23 success that The Sunday Times devoted most of a coloured
24 supplement to explaining his modus operandi.
25
26 "With this in mind and recalling GOC's advice at the SPM,
27 that only a cumulative rather than individual exposure of
28 Murphy's smuggling would prove effective. The Observation
29 Tower survey was one of a number of surveys that are
30 directed at Murphy's operations. The information was
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 14
1 collated manually by G30 and passed directly to 1 RRF
2 intelligence cell in Bessbrook Mill on 1st of March. That
3 information was shared routinely with the RUC liaison
4 officer in The Mill, entered on the military computer
5 Crucible on 2nd of March and then disseminated quite widely
6 to military and RUC addresses in 1 RRF intelligence summary
7 on the 5th of March.
8
9 "The point behind this is that the survey was not designed
10 for immediate executive action - Murphy's expertise has
11 moved well beyond the point of being disturbed by periodic
12 interception of fuel lorries. It will require a plan of
13 considerable depth and subtlety, possibly involving
14 additional legislation and certainly much cooperation from
15 the south, finally, to remove Murphy from the map.
16
17 "I have copied this letter to the Chief Constable's
18 Office."
19
20 Now, obviously, there is concern here that the information
21 that was proffered at the dinner on the 6th was inaccurate,
22 and we also, Witness M, have had evidence from - I will
23 just look up the cipher here now - from Witness 27, who
24 travelled to that dinner with Harry Breen. He gave
25 evidence to the Tribunal that coming back, they both
26 expressed dissatisfaction with the way this is being
27 handled; they felt that the Secretary of State shouldn't be
28 interfering with police work, which was their view, so
29 obviously they must have had some unease about this method
30 of approaching it, as well. What would be your view, as a
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 15
1 Customs' person?
2 A. Well, my view on it would be more or less that the first
3 thing you'd have to do is to get the most up-to-date
4 intelligence, the number of vehicles, et cetera, that is
5 crossing on an unproved route. And once you get that then,
6 you have a rough idea then what's the end product going to
7 be and what further planning will take place. I was not --
8 I was unaware of the total end product of this but I knew
9 there was some form of concern over the movement of
10 vehicles and traffic and lorries in that particular area.
11 52 Q. And presumably, if you had had your meeting with Chief
12 Superintendent Breen and Bob Buchanan, you would have
13 canvassed this with him?
14 A. He would have updated us in what the position was.
15 53 Q. And would you have made recommendations arising out of that
16 meeting?
17 A. I would have reported that, the facts -- I was at the
18 meeting and my boss would have been with me, so it would
19 have been a matter of passing it on to the people who were
20 leading the operation.
21 54 Q. How dangerous would this operation be?
22 A. All operations along the border would be, a certain amount
23 of danger in relation to it, and this would be no
24 exception, and certainly you'd have to take the necessary
25 precautions to try and achieve the objective.
26 55 Q. What sort of precautions in the event that there was a big
27 operation going down, what sort of precautions were the
28 Customs allowed to take for their own safety, if you
29 considered that you were under threat?
30 A. Well, they'd be briefed to pay particular attention to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 16
1 themselves and what your own concerns was, and if they
2 needed any training or anything like that on it, you would
3 be advised to have it.
4 56 Q. And what about arms training or the carrying of weapons,
5 was that an option?
6 A. All Customs personnel were unarmed, but it was up to each
7 individually if you felt that way, that he could apply to
8 the local authorities, and that would be the police, for --
9 and apprise them of the facts.
10 57 Q. And if one were going into a serious operation where there
11 were several millions involved against any smuggler, would
12 that be a step that would be considered by the people
13 involved from Customs, that they would require to be armed?
14 A. Well, the police would be there, anyway, and they would
15 have their own necessary equipment with them, and we, as
16 Customs officers, on the day or whoever would be leading
17 the particular target on the day, they would be able to
18 carry on doing their job and have the freedom of being
19 looked after at the same time.
20 58 Q. The fact that, say, for instance, a smuggler got wind of
21 the fact that there was going to be a major move against
22 him by the -- all the authorities involved, do you think
23 that that particular organisation would take steps to
24 perhaps assassinate the people who might have been carrying
25 it out?
26 A. Well, the situation there would be is, depending on the
27 situation on the ground and the person involved, after all
28 they were smuggling for financial gain, and I am not so
29 sure what the length they would go to to achieve that
30 objective.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 17
1 59 Q. Would you go so far as to say they would go to considerable
2 lengths to achieve that objective, to divert or obstruct a
3 move against them?
4 A. Well, they would take the necessary precautions, anyway.
5 If they were -- if their operation was going to be
6 inhibited for any length of time, they certainly would do
7 something about it; they would maybe warn you off or
8 something like that there and, again, you would have to
9 rethink the strategy of the situation, leave it to another
10 day.
11 60 Q. Had that happened before, that you would get warnings or
12 threats from people who thought they were at risk of being
13 rumbled that they were --
14 A. Well, the situation is when you are dealing with smuggling
15 in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, between
16 Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, initially it
17 used to be a traditional thing, but whenever the MCAs came
18 into being, it became big money, so the whole oversight
19 changed.
20 61 Q. And the MCAs, of course as you said earlier, is monetary
21 compensation amounts?
22 A. Compensation, yeah.
23 62 Q. I think you did tell me originally that the Customs' view
24 was that you were focused on smuggling and terrorism was
25 for somebody else to sort out?
26 A. That is correct, our job was to do the all-round, the
27 collecting of the revenue with our colleagues from the
28 Republic of Ireland, and try and achieve that objective,
29 and given that our outlook for farmers within Northern
30 Ireland and the same in the Republic of Ireland.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 18
1 63 Q. But to what extent were there, too, of them entering into
2 smuggling and the IRA, PIRA at the time?
3 A. Well, it would be difficult to assess that from a security
4 point of view, but that is the main reason that the police
5 would have been there and they would have been in
6 possession of that knowledge.
7 64 Q. Could you smuggle on a large scale without being a member
8 of the IRA?
9 A. Well, if people smuggling and -- [loss of sound] -- on that
10 particular question, it's a difficult one.
11 65 Q. Now, I think that, I had spoken to a colleague of yours who
12 was very helpful in providing diary extracts but we didn't
13 manage to allay his concerns about his security, so he is
14 not going to give evidence, for the moment. And I am just
15 wondering, do you have any notes in your diary about
16 visitations from the Special Investigative Branch prior to
17 the murders and after this meeting, this directive, because
18 I have --
19 A. Any particular date?
20 66 Q. Yes, there is the 7th of March, the 14th of March,
21 telephone calls on the 15th of March?
22 A. No, I would have nothing on the 7th.
23 67 Q. Were you elsewhere at the time?
24 A. Yes, I was dealing with other matters in a different part
25 of the country.
26 68 Q. I see. Now, I think that as a result of the minutes of the
27 meeting that I have read out to you, there was a directive,
28 a file was opened on 'Slab' Murphy, a query was -- sought
29 the views of the Garda and the file was due for reporting
30 on 24th of March, 1989. Now, there was a memo sent to --
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 19
1 by the -- witness -- let me see -- Witness 56 sent a memo
2 to Senior Ops and Senior ACC C&E and indicated that the
3 Chief Constable wanted a report on the matter and the Garda
4 view was to be sought via Divisional Commander H, and that,
5 of course, was Harry Breen, and it was indicated that the
6 request was to be treated as urgent. Mr. Cushley, who has
7 given evidence before the Tribunal -- [loss of sound] --
8 forwarding this memo to the Regional ACC Rural East
9 indicating, that again, the report is required by the 24th
10 of the 3rd. And, at this point Harry Breen was actually
11 out on leave. So Harry Breen has now been given his order
12 to progress this matter as a result of the security meeting
13 on the 7th. Now, on the 16th of March, then, we heard from
14 Superintendent Buchanan's diary. He noted in his journal
15 "Duty to Armagh, meeting with ACC re 'Slab' Murphy," and
16 that is HMG36. He attended a briefing at Armagh station
17 attended by the ACC and others. And orders to conduct an
18 operation were given to the RUC and the army, and Chief
19 Superintendent Breen was placed at that. So, do you have
20 any knowledge of that meeting on the 16th or were you again
21 --
22 A. I was dealing with other matters in County Down.
23 69 Q. Okay. Now, on the 14th of March, which was one of the days
24 that the Special Investigative Unit were visiting, that you
25 haven't got a note of there, the Tribunal has heard that
26 Superintendent Buchanan, accompanied by Inspector Day,
27 called to Dundalk, and on that day Inspector Day felt they
28 were being followed. So there seems to be an interest in,
29 certainly in the car on that day. You haven't any --
30 A. No.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 20
1 70 Q. You weren't anywhere around the area at the time?
2 A. No.
3 71 Q. Now, on the 20th of March, then, you had, I think you had a
4 meeting with Special Branch, according to your diary, is
5 that right?
6 A. That's correct.
7 72 Q. And did you have a security chat with Witness M [sic], your
8 colleague, who feels unable to attend?
9 A. Yes, he had been apprised of the facts and any names we
10 would have, and if he was not present, we withdrew then to
11 him.
12 73 Q. Yes, it was, of course, the day of the murder?
13 A. That's the day of the murder, yes.
14 74 Q. Do you recall what views you had about security or what
15 concerns you would have expressed about security? Would it
16 have been in relation to your own operation that was --
17 A. Well, it would be a matter then for the people who were
18 running the operation to have a rethink and discuss the way
19 forward with the PSNI or the Special Branch.
20 75 Q. I think on the 23rd of March, then, I was advised that your
21 colleague went down to Dublin, again discussing the
22 situation in relation to Murphy and 'Operation Amazing', do
23 you know about that?
24 A. Yes, I remember that he travelled to Dublin via Newry.
25 76 Q. Have you particular reason for remembering that?
26 A. Well, I understand that it was to get some photocopying
27 done.
28 77 Q. And where would he have done the photocopying?
29 A. The photocopying I think was being done by our colleagues
30 in the Republic of Ireland.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 21
1 78 Q. So they would have provided you with copies of documents
2 that they had?
3 A. They would have been providing that particular gentleman
4 with the copies and they would be photocopied if they were
5 applicable to what the inquiry related to.
6 79 Q. And was the inquiry, do you recall, relating to a move
7 against 'Slab' Murphy?
8 A. It is mostly likely, it is most likely concerned with the
9 illegal exports of grain, et cetera, and if the 'Operation
10 Amazing' was still ongoing, it would have been applicable
11 to it, probably.
12 80 Q. Yes. And where would those documents have gone?
13 A. They would have been handed over to -- once they were
14 received, they would have been handed over to the officers
15 that were leading the inquiry.
16 81 Q. Yes. And would that be in Glasgow?
17 A. It would be in Belfast initially and then they would have
18 been looking after the --
19 82 Q. Yes. Now, I think 'Operation Amazing' certainly continued
20 up -- [loss of sound] -- because I think that there was
21 another series of arrests against other smugglers in May of
22 1989, is that right?
23 A. That's correct.
24 83 Q. And I think you are looking at your diary now?
25 A. Yes.
26 84 Q. And can you just tell the Chairman and the Tribunal -- I
27 think it was the -- was that the 23rd of May -- yes, I
28 think it certainly was May; I am not sure of the date, I'm
29 afraid. Perhaps you might just tell us about it, because
30 you have -- the 27th of May. 23rd of May?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 22
1 A. 23rd of May?
2 85 Q. Yes.
3 A. What is the question?
4 86 Q. Just as a follow-up to 'Operation Amazing', there was some
5 more smugglers, a group of people, it was alleged that they
6 were smuggling, arrested around the 23rd of May?
7 A. Yes, I think there was six people in all arrested that
8 morning; I think that was one in a different part from the
9 border.
10 87 Q. And one person who was -- who came to notice of the
11 Tribunal was a Mr. McAnulty. Do you recall his --
12 A. Yes, Mr. McAnulty was one of the six.
13 88 Q. Yes. Did you arrest him?
14 A. No.
15 89 Q. Yes. Have I the date correct, was it around 23rd of May?
16 A. Actually, that one --
17 90 Q. I know it's the 23rd of May from your colleague's diary but
18 I don't want to put words in your mouth.
19 A. Yes.
20 91 Q. Now, I think that you are aware of the --
21 A. Excuse me, it was the 23rd of May.
22 92 Q. Yes.
23 A. I have the diary open now.
24 93 Q. There is another matter that I need to ask you about,
25 because you are aware of our terms of reference,
26 allegations, investigating allegations of collusion that
27 may or may not have taken place between PIRA and any State
28 agent, and that would include the Gardaí. I think that you
29 have some information for the Tribunal in relation to
30 Detective Sergeant Owen Corrigan, is that correct?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 23
1 A. Yes, I was at a meeting in Edward Street Police Station in
2 Newry, otherwise known as Corry Square at that time, and I
3 was warned by a colleague, who is now deceased, that
4 Detective Sergeant Corrigan, who was allegedly leaking
5 information, was in the room -- empty -- [loss of sound] --
6 so there was another few Garda personnel there as well.
7 Now, I had prior knowledge of Owen Corrigan, just in
8 passing, his name came up since early 1988 because of
9 meetings, but I didn't know anything about him except for
10 hearing his name, up to this time. He was at the liaison
11 meeting, it was a Christmas gathering, there were perhaps
12 20 people in attendance, and my colleague pointed
13 Mr. Corrigan out to me and warned me off against him, as it
14 was alleged he was leaking information. In view of what he
15 said, and the fact that I had previously in 1988 heard the
16 name regarding him, I avoided contact with him.
17 94 Q. Now, how do you know that you met him on this particular
18 date? Do you have something in your diary?
19 A. I have a note in my diary that I was at the meeting and
20 that there was Garda personnel there and that Mr. Connolly
21 -- this was the 21st of the 12th, '88 --
22 95 Q. Witness M is now getting his 1988 diary.
23 A. We went to Newry at quarter to two and I met with my
24 colleague and friend and then I spoke to PSNI officers and
25 also Garda personnel, which allegedly included Detective
26 Sergeant Corrigan.
27 96 Q. Do you have his name written in the diary?
28 A. No, it's not his name, it's just under "Garda personnel".
29 But my colleague pointed him out, he says he was in the
30 building and I -- I just had no contact with him. I didn't
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 24
1 know much of him up to that other than I heard the name.
2 97 Q. In what context did you hear the name?
3 A. Pardon?
4 98 Q. Why would you have heard his name?
5 A. I heard just the name in passing, that there was somebody
6 allegedly -- there was information getting out and that
7 that name came up, but I hadn't --
8 99 Q. Can I show that page to the Chairman?
9 A. Yes.
10 100 Q. I don't know if you can see it, Chairman. It's a diary
11 extract dated 21st, Wednesday, of December 1988.
12
13 MR. SWEENEY: Mary, can you move it closer to your face and
14 higher and then bring it closer to the screen. Just read
15 it out, we can't see.
16
17 MRS. LAVERTY: I think I will get Witness M to read his own
18 writing.
19 101 Q. If you could read out the relevant extract.
20 A. "To RUC liaison meeting. Met a Detective Inspector and
21 others, also Garda personnel. Various discussions." And
22 then I met my boss later on that night and then I went back
23 to Belfast at 19:40 hours.
24 102 Q. So Owen Corrigan's name isn't --
25 A. Owen Corrigan's name is not in the diary.
26 103 Q. It's not in the diary. I thought that you said that it
27 was?
28 A. No.
29 104 Q. Yes. You recall at that particular meeting you met him, is
30 that right?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 25
1 A. Oh, yes, I saw him; I didn't meet him.
2 105 Q. And you didn't know anything else about him?
3 A. I knew nothing else about him.
4 106 Q. And had he ever come to your attention from a professional
5 point of view, in a smuggling context, had he ever come to
6 your attention?
7 A. No.
8 107 Q. So this was, if you like, gossip, was it?
9 A. Well, the person that told me, he would have knew him, of
10 course he was involved in investigations and he would have
11 knew of him, and he just mentioned to me in passing, he
12 says - this is the Detective Sergeant, "Don't be saying
13 anything". And that's what happened, and I didn't
14 participate in any conversation with the gentleman
15 concerned.
16 108 Q. I see. Now, I think that you, following the deaths of
17 Harry Breen and Bob Buchanan, you had a meeting on the 28th
18 of March --
19 A. Yes.
20 109 Q. -- 1989. And perhaps you could have a look at your diary
21 for that day?
22 A. 1989.
23 110 Q. I think that you said in your statement that was attended
24 by Alan Mains?
25 A. That's correct.
26 111 Q. Who was a Staff Officer, Harry Breen's Staff Officer?
27 A. Yes.
28 112 Q. And do you recall that meeting?
29 A. I do, yes. We were having a general discussion and Alan
30 Mains --
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 26
1 113 Q. What was the purpose of that meeting, do you recall?
2 A. It was just after -- immediately after two -- two or three
3 days after the deaths, and we called into the police
4 station and we met with a Superintendent who was taking the
5 place of Harry Breen, the late Harry Breen, and Alan Mains
6 was there.
7 114 Q. And did you have -- did you have any discussion about the
8 events that had happened, with Alan Mains?
9 A. We had a slight discussion about it, and he made it clear
10 at that conversation that Harry Breen didn't want to go to
11 the meeting in Dundalk in the first place.
12 115 Q. I think he has given that evidence to the Tribunal, and he
13 made a statement to that effect, I think prior to your
14 meeting with him --
15 A. Yes.
16 116 Q. -- so we understand from the evidence before the Tribunal.
17 Do you have anything -- can I ask you, did the operation
18 against Murphys go ahead eventually at the scale envisaged?
19 A. I understand it did. I wasn't present at it, but there was
20 an operation went down at it, and it covered both sides of
21 the border.
22
23 MRS. LAVERTY: Thank you very much. And perhaps now you
24 can answer any questions that they may wish to ask in the
25 south.
26
27 CHAIRMAN: Any questions?
28
29 MR. McGUINNESS: Yes, Chairman.
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 27
1 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. McGUINNESS
2 AS FOLLOWS:
3
4 117 Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Good morning, Witness M. My name is
5 Diarmuid McGuinness, and I appear for An Garda Siochana.
6 Can you hear me?
7 A. Yes.
8 118 Q. Can I ask you, Witness M, have you any evidence that any
9 member of An Garda Siochana colluded with the IRA in the
10 murders of Superintendent Buchanan and Chief Superintendent
11 Breen?
12 A. No, I have no evidence of that.
13 119 Q. Okay. Now, can I just ask you this: Obviously, you have
14 got your diary entry showing that a meeting had been
15 arranged with Chief Superintendent Breen for the 21st of
16 March, isn't that correct?
17 A. That's correct.
18 120 Q. And did he make that appointment with you?
19 A. It was made, I think, by Mr. Mains.
20 121 Q. Mr. Mains made that appointment?
21 A. Yes, I understand that, now.
22 122 Q. But did he make that with you over the phone or how was it
23 made?
24 A. The meeting would have been arranged over the phone to say
25 that Mr. Breen requested a meeting in Armagh on that
26 particular date.
27 123 Q. All right. Were you stationed in Armagh at that point in
28 time?
29 A. Pardon?
30 124 Q. Were you stationed in Armagh or based in Armagh?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 28
1 A. No, I was stationed in Belfast.
2 125 Q. Belfast. All right. Can I ask you this: Would that
3 appointment have been made by Mr. Mains with you or by
4 appointment with somebody acting on your behalf?
5 A. No, I understand that Mr. Breen had asked Mr. Mains to
6 contact me and see would I be available on the same date,
7 and I received a call from, I think it was Mr. Mains, or
8 someone acting on his behalf, for the meeting for that
9 particular day.
10 126 Q. I am just trying to elicit that. You received the call and
11 you think it was from Sergeant Mains?
12 A. Yes.
13 127 Q. And can you recollect when that was? Can you hear me?
14
15 MRS. LAVERTY: No, we lost you there for a minute.
16
17 128 Q. MR. McGUINNESS: When was that phone call made to you?
18 A. On the 21st?
19 129 Q. No, arranging the meeting on the 21st. When was the phone
20 call made to you?
21
22 MRS. LAVERTY: When would he have made the phone call?
23 A. He would actually have made the phone call maybe the day
24 that Mr. Breen was going to Dundalk, it was that particular
25 day, to say that he wanted a meeting the next day in
26 anticipation.
27
28 130 Q. MR. McGUINNESS: Okay. Can I ask you, is that your
29 recollection, that it was arranged on the morning of the
30 20th or is that what you are assuming happened?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 29
1 A. I just can't give you the actual time, but I received the
2 call sometime on that particular day, the day that
3 Mr. Breen, on the 20th.
4 131 Q. All right. Okay. Now, you have told the Tribunal that you
5 knew Mr. Breen well and, as I understand it, you told the
6 Chairman that you knew that Mr. Breen was going -- was
7 going to go down to discuss matters with his Garda
8 colleagues sometime after the meeting of the 6th of March.
9 Can I ask you this: Did you learn that Mr. Breen was going
10 to go down before Sergeant Mains phoned you on the 20th?
11 A. No, I wasn't aware of that.
12 132 Q. All right. I thought you had told the Chairman that you
13 heard shortly after the meeting of the 6th of March that
14 the authorities wanted something done about it, is that
15 right?
16 A. That was the general consensus, yes.
17 133 Q. Yes. But when did you first hear that there would be an
18 operation possibly mounted against Mr. Murphy?
19 A. I wasn't directly involved in that myself.
20 134 Q. I understand.
21 A. Because that was being led by another team.
22 135 Q. Yes.
23 A. And I had to deal with other matters at the same time, so I
24 wasn't aware of the overall situation, the preplanning or
25 anything like that.
26 136 Q. I understand. But I just want to try and, as it were, pin
27 you down a little more if possible in terms of time. Did
28 you learn the week before the Superintendents were shot
29 that there was talk of an operation in relation to
30 Mr. Murphy?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 30
1 A. An operation going down?
2 137 Q. Yes.
3 A. Well, as far as the particular subject you are mentioning
4 there, I wouldn't have known when the actual day or week
5 when it was going, because as I say, that particular
6 operation - I assume that you are referring to 'Operation
7 Amazing' - that would have been handled by other people, so
8 I wouldn't have been directly involved as to the date, the
9 actual date or dates.
10 138 Q. All right. But Mrs. Laverty opened to you the minutes of
11 this meeting of a direction that was given by the Chief
12 Constable about getting a report into Mr. Murphy's
13 activities, and can I ask you this: Did you learn of that
14 at that time?
15 A. No, I knew there was something, I knew that the authorities
16 were concerned about the smuggling activity right across
17 the border but I wasn't aware of this particular meeting at
18 that time until I learned of it.
19 139 Q. Okay. So, can I ask you this question, then: Was the 20th
20 of March the first time that you learned that Harry Breen
21 was going down to Dundalk?
22 A. Yes, that the -- the 20th of March, the 20th of March, yes.
23 I wouldn't have known any forward knowledge of what the
24 late Mr. Breen would have been doing.
25 140 Q. Yes. But you learned from Sergeant Mains on the 20th that
26 he was going down to Dundalk to discuss it with the guards
27 and that he wanted to meet you then the next day?
28 A. I understand that he phoned up and said that "Mr. Breen
29 wants to meet you tomorrow," and that was arranged, and I
30 said, "Okay, let me know later." And then that fell
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 31
1 through.
2 141 Q. All right. You have referred to 'Operation Amazing' there,
3 and you have referred to six people being arrested in May
4 of 1989, one of them being a Mr. John McAnulty, is that
5 right?
6 A. I was aware that he had been arrested but I know nothing
7 about his particular arrest or the other -- I was only
8 concerned -- I was allocated to go out with another chap
9 who was dealing with one of the other six, and I was
10 dealing with him, the two of us was dealing with him, and
11 that was it.
12 142 Q. Yes. Can you confirm that was an operation relating to
13 grain smuggling?
14 A. That was an operation to grain smuggling in general, yes.
15 143 Q. In general. And can you confirm that Mr. McAnulty was
16 arrested and released without charge at that point in time?
17 A. Again, I wasn't into the, actually, all the details of that
18 particular situation, and the people that were in charge of
19 that investigation, we were -- each person had to look
20 after the person that they were allocated the post to deal
21 with it.
22 144 Q. I understand.
23 A. But I understand that he was in the building at one time
24 and -- but I had no contact with him.
25 145 Q. Yes. But obviously, it would be regarded as a success if
26 an operation resulted in the bringing of charges against
27 any of those arrested, and have you any recollection as to
28 whether Mr. McAnulty was charged or not?
29 A. I couldn't honestly answer that question, I am not sure,
30 because he could have been, he could have been dealt with
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 32
1 something, but I have no knowledge of whether he was
2 charged or released without charge.
3 146 Q. Yes. All right. Now, just turning to this meeting in
4 December of 1988. Did you know who had arranged this
5 liaison meeting in Newry Garda Station -- in Newry Police
6 Station?
7 A. That would have been arranged just through some of the
8 local detectives there, who'd say, "Right, we are having a
9 liaison meeting." And that was it. And I attended that
10 meeting.
11 147 Q. Yes. And do you know what other Garda officers were
12 present at that meeting?
13 A. No, all I know, there was other Garda -- some other Garda
14 personnel present. It was just a liaison meeting.
15 148 Q. And it was at that meeting or on that day that you heard
16 for the first time this talk about Sergeant Corrigan?
17 A. I had heard the name before, but I never gave it much
18 thought, but on the day, at that meeting, my colleague came
19 over to me and said that there was a Detective Sergeant
20 Corrigan in the room, and on hearing his name -- except for
21 hearing his name up to this point, I wasn't aware of the
22 gentleman concerned.
23 149 Q. All right. And can I ask you this: Presumably, you had
24 been aware that there had been a bombing of Newry Police
25 Station at Corry Square in 1985; nine officers were
26 killed --
27 A. That's right.
28 150 Q. -- when a mortar hit the canteen, and many others injured.
29 You were presumably aware of that?
30 A. I was aware of that, yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 33
1 151 Q. Would you be surprised if the RUC either invited or
2 permitted any member of An Garda Siochana into the station
3 who had been suspected of passing information to the IRA?
4 A. I couldn't make any comment on that, that would be a matter
5 for the PSNI or the police at that particular time. It
6 wouldn't be up to us to make any comment on that.
7 152 Q. All right. Well, did you raise any query with any of your
8 superiors after going to a meeting and finding a member of
9 An Garda Siochana there who was alleged to be helping the
10 IRA?
11 A. All I related was to the person, my immediate boss, that we
12 were at the meeting and what my colleague would have told
13 him as well, he had more knowledge of it than me. I wasn't
14 aware of the full facts relating to the same person.
15 153 Q. So your boss wasn't aware of this, on your recollection?
16 A. Say again.
17 154 Q. Your boss wasn't aware of this before you informed him of
18 this, is that right?
19 A. I just -- I was just advising him, saying that we were at
20 the meeting and that my colleague had said that there was a
21 Mr. Corrigan there, and that was it. I avoided contact
22 with him. The only thing I knew about him was, I learned
23 he was in Special Branch, that is all. I knew nothing
24 about him otherwise.
25 155 Q. All right. Yes. But may the Chairman take it that up to
26 this date in time, you had never been involved in any
27 operation involving that particular Sergeant, had you?
28 A. No.
29 156 Q. Okay. And I note that in your statement you have referred
30 to a previous diary entry for a meeting with Mr. Breen on
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 34
1 the 5th of October, 1988. Can you recollect where that was
2 or can you help the Chairman as to where that meeting was?
3 A. Yes, that was on Wednesday the 5th.
4 157 Q. And where was --
5 A. I conversed -- I have in my diary, "Conversed with Chief
6 Superintendent Breen and [Witness 39], also CID personnel."
7 And then I moved on to another visit, to the Customs
8 station itself.
9 158 Q. And can you tell the Tribunal where that meeting took place
10 or what it related to?
11 A. That related to a place at Armagh RUC station, PSNI
12 station.
13 159 Q. Was that in connection with 'Operation Amazing' or some
14 other operation?
15 A. We did call in from time to time and have general
16 discussions in general, and we discussed anything that
17 would have been discussed, nothing specific unless there
18 was an ongoing operation going.
19 160 Q. Okay. So, you have no recollection of anything in
20 particular, but it's simply a meeting that you had with
21 Chief Superintendent Breen?
22 A. No.
23
24 MR. McGUINNESS: Okay. Thank you very much, Witness M.
25 A. Thank you.
26
27 CHAIRMAN: Any questions from anybody else?
28
29 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. O'CALLAGHAN AS
30 FOLLOWS:
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 35
1
2 161 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Good afternoon, sir. Can you hear me?
3 A. Yes.
4 162 Q. I appear for Owen Corrigan, I just have a few questions for
5 you. Do you have your statement in front of you, sir?
6 A. Yes.
7 163 Q. Could I ask you to go to page 2 of it and the section of
8 your statement where you refer to the meeting in Armagh RUC
9 Station on the 5th of October, 1988. It's the second-last
10 paragraph, sir.
11 A. Yes.
12 164 Q. You will see there, sir, the last two sentences in that
13 paragraph state the following, you say: "On the 5th of
14 October, 1988, I met with Harry Breen and Witness 39.
15 There were some CID personnel present and Harry did not
16 speak freely." I am just wondering, sir, why was it, do
17 you think, that Mr. Breen didn't speak freely in the
18 presence of some CID officers?
19 A. I just can't recollect individual persons that were there,
20 but when that phraseology "did not speak freely", it means
21 that if he was going to talk about something specific, that
22 is what I would be relating to there.
23 165 Q. Would you agree with me that there would be nothing unusual
24 in a police officer not discussing sensitive security
25 matters in front of other police officers?
26 A. Well, I wouldn't -- as far as I was concerned, on the 5th
27 of the 10th, '88, I met with Mr. Harry Breen and there was
28 some other CID personnel that could have been about,
29 present, and Harry did not speak freely; he didn't talk in
30 general terms, we just talked about whatever was discussed
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 36
1 at the time, it could have been about anything.
2 166 Q. The meaning I took from the sentence, and correct me if I
3 am wrong, is that Harry Breen was reticent or didn't speak
4 freely because there were other CID personnel present and
5 he didn't want to talk freely in their presence, is that
6 correct?
7 A. No, I wouldn't agree with that, because as far as the other
8 people present, that was -- I couldn't say to the late
9 Harry Breen what to speak about because I couldn't say, I
10 just said that he didn't -- we didn't talk in general terms
11 about everything else.
12 167 Q. Well, why do you say he didn't speak freely?
13 A. Well, it's just I would have thought in the conversation,
14 just normally you'd get people speaking and they are
15 discussing various things, and he'd only be speaking about
16 anything that would be agreeable to whatever people were
17 doing or saying. It was a general conversation, that is
18 all I can recollect on that particular thing.
19 168 Q. You then have the meeting on the 21st of December, 1988, in
20 Newry. Just for confirmation, sir, there is absolutely no
21 mention of Owen Corrigan in your diary entry, isn't that
22 correct?
23 A. That's correct.
24 169 Q. How do you recall, then, that Barry Connolly told you about
25 Detective Sergeant Corrigan at that meeting?
26 A. Well, I was in the building and the gentleman you mentioned
27 there, he spoke to me and he says that he recognised about
28 Detective Sergeant Corrigan and I just says, I thought
29 about what he had said and as I had no conversation with
30 him, I hadn't heard much about the man in the past, other
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 37
1 than his name had been mentioned in general terms and that
2 was it.
3 170 Q. What did Barry Connolly say to you?
4 A. What did Barry Connolly say to me?
5 171 Q. Yes.
6 A. He pointed over to a person and warned me off against him,
7 as he was alleged to be leaking some information to certain
8 people.
9 172 Q. Well, did he say, "That man leaks information to certain
10 people"?
11 A. I don't know what the end product of it was now, to be
12 quite honest, like, but as far as he was concerned, he
13 pointed him out to me. I had no conversation with the man
14 concerned, and that was it.
15 173 Q. How did you reply to what Barry Connolly said to you?
16 A. Pardon?
17 174 Q. How did you reply to what Barry Connolly said to you?
18 A. I said, "That's okay."
19 175 Q. What did you understand as him being -- as him referring to
20 "other people" as?
21 A. Well, he was referring to what he heard or knew about and
22 he was just relating it to me, and he told me sometimes
23 that whenever people are speaking, that they are speaking
24 to people and there is other people there and he just said
25 that, he mentioned Mr. Corrigan. And I had no contact then
26 with Mr. Corrigan or anybody, and that was it.
27 176 Q. Did Mr. Connolly say to you that Owen Corrigan was giving
28 information to the IRA?
29 A. No.
30 177 Q. When did Barry Connolly die?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 38
1 A. It's about ten years ago, I think.
2 178 Q. When you received this information from him, what did you
3 understand it as referring to? Who did you think Owen
4 Corrigan was giving information to?
5 A. I didn't form an opinion on Mr. Corrigan.
6 179 Q. Who did -- well, what did you form an opinion as to what
7 Barry Connolly was saying? Who do you think information
8 was being given out to by Owen Corrigan?
9 A. I don't know where Mr. Connolly got it from, he just
10 mentioned it to me in passing at the meeting and that was
11 all I had with him about the same conversation.
12 180 Q. Well, it's obviously something that has stuck in your mind,
13 since you are well able to remember 24 years later without
14 any note in your diary, so why did it have such an impact
15 upon your recollection?
16 A. Because I remember the particular date, being in the place,
17 and I checked my diary, and I remember at that particular
18 time Mr. Connolly mentioned that, what you stated there.
19 181 Q. What did you do with this information when Mr. Connolly
20 mentioned it to you?
21 A. Well, that would be up to Mr. Connolly because he would
22 have knew all about it, so he would have passed it on to
23 his in-line line manager.
24 182 Q. Are you saying that Barry Connolly did pass it on to his
25 line manager?
26
27 MRS. LAVERTY: Did Barry Connolly pass it on to his line
28 manager, do you know?
29 A. I am not so sure. I would have no doubt he did pass it on
30 but I have nothing in my diary other than the fact that I
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 39
1 was at a meeting and Mr. Connolly informed him.
2 183 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Did you mention it to anyone after the
3 meeting, what Barry Connolly had said to you?
4 A. I mentioned -- I mentioned it to my in-line line manager in
5 passing, and that was it.
6 184 Q. What did you say to him in passing?
7 A. I just said as I discussed there, that I was at the meeting
8 and Mr. Connolly came over to me and said that the person
9 who was in the room, that is Detective Sergeant Corrigan,
10 and to be careful what I was saying.
11 185 Q. And did your line manager say to you, well who is he giving
12 information to?
13 A. No, that would have been down to him as to what to do about
14 it.
15 186 Q. And when do you think you may have mentioned that to your
16 line manager?
17 A. I would probably have mentioned it to him that particular
18 night.
19 187 Q. Did you mention it to anyone else in the intervening 24
20 years since that night and the evidence today?
21 A. I never -- [loss of sound] -- the 'Operation Amazing', and
22 therefore, I wasn't involved in that --
23 188 Q. Sorry, sir, I think we missed your answer there, there was
24 a break in the link, and if I might ask you the question
25 again. You can answer it again so we can hear it. Have
26 you ever mentioned it to anyone else between the 21st of
27 December, '88, and today, giving evidence here?
28 A. Other than whenever I was asked about it by the Tribunal
29 personnel.
30 189 Q. When were you asked by the Tribunal personnel?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 40
1
2 MRS. LAVERTY: When were you asked by the Tribunal
3 personnel?
4 A. The 24th of the 5th, '12. 24th of May this year.
5 190 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Okay. So you don't mention it to anyone
6 for 24 years. What made you speak to the Tribunal
7 personnel? Did anyone approach you asking you to assist
8 the Tribunal?
9 A. No, they just asked me in general, what was I -- on that
10 particular date in my diary, and that is what I
11 recollected.
12 191 Q. Did anyone else ask you to talk to the Tribunal?
13 A. No.
14 192 Q. No one approached you other than the Tribunal, for the
15 purpose of assisting this Tribunal?
16 A. Yes.
17 193 Q. Were you aware of this Tribunal's existence?
18 A. Yes, in general terms, yes.
19 194 Q. Why, then, didn't you seek to come and give this
20 information to the Tribunal prior to the 24th of May 2012?
21 A. I understand you have to be asked to do these things,
22 and -- that is as far as I went. Whenever I got the
23 meeting, I was at the meeting on the 24th of the 5th and in
24 the presence of my in-line line manager, and that was it.
25 195 Q. Did you receive any contact or communication from
26 Mr. McBurney, solicitor, asking you to assist the Tribunal?
27 A. Mr. McBurney?
28 196 Q. Yes.
29 A. Mr. McBurney was in contact or he was -- he was in contact,
30 as well, and it was just, more or less, kind of, would I be
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 41
1 available to go to -- as a witness. So I had very little
2 conversation with him about anything in particular.
3 197 Q. When did Mr. McBurney contact you?
4 A. I think it must have been around about the 24th of the 5th,
5 as well.
6 198 Q. Did he contact you before the Tribunal spoke to you?
7 A. I am just checking here. No, I had very little contact
8 with anybody regarding it, and very little contact with
9 anybody, really.
10 199 Q. Did Mr. McBurney ask you to give evidence to this Tribunal?
11 A. He might have mentioned would I be available to give
12 evidence and would I be agreeable, and I said, well...
13 That is all, that is the point of conversation I had with
14 him, unless the people from the Tribunal themselves were
15 there and we explained to them at the time what took place.
16 200 Q. Did Mr. McBurney mention to you or raise the name with you,
17 of Owen Corrigan?
18
19 MRS. LAVERTY: Did Mr. McBurney raise the name of Owen
20 Corrigan to you?
21 A. I just am not so sure because there was that many names
22 going around, and we were talking just in general terms,
23 and, at the meeting on the 24th, we then went through it in
24 detail.
25 201 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: So you could remember, sir, Owen
26 Corrigan's name being mentioned to you 24 years ago by
27 Barry Connolly?
28 A. Yes.
29 202 Q. But you are saying you can't recall whether Owen Corrigan's
30 name was mentioned to you within the last three weeks by
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 42
1 Mr. McBurney?
2 A. It could have been mentioned to me, it could have been
3 mentioned, but there was nothing untowards. It clicked
4 with me that that was the person that was in Newry that
5 particular night.
6 203 Q. What did Mr. McBurney say to you about Owen Corrigan?
7 A. I just can't recollect what he said, in detail. He
8 didn't -- there was no concentration on Detective Sergeant
9 Corrigan.
10 204 Q. I want you to try and recall, sir. You have a good memory
11 when it comes to Owen Corrigan; as I say, you remember what
12 was said about him 24 years ago. I am asking you what was
13 said by Mr. McBurney about him within the last three weeks?
14 A. Well, just, if anybody did ask me, it was just to say, you
15 know, Sergeant Corrigan, I only know of him; I don't know
16 the man.
17 205 Q. Well, presumably, sir, somebody put the name 'Owen
18 Corrigan' to you on the 24th of May last, is that correct?
19 A. Whenever the diary was checked on the 24th and we went
20 through them in relation to that particular date, I checked
21 my diary and I remembered because -- that Mr. Connolly had
22 advised me, and that was all the conversation we had,
23 really, about it.
24 206 Q. You also say you had a meeting with Mr. Mains on the 28th
25 of March, 1989, isn't that correct?
26 A. 28th?
27 207 Q. 28th of March, 1989, isn't that correct?
28 A. Yes, yes, that's correct.
29 208 Q. Can you read out what is the record in your diary from that
30 date in 1989, please?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 43
1 A. That was on the 29th of March, that meeting took place on
2 the 29th of March.
3 209 Q. Sorry, the reason I said the 28th of March is because your
4 statement says the 28th of March, at the end of it, on the
5 third page. But read out the 29th of March, anyway, will
6 you?
7 A. I went to Armagh with Mr. Connolly and I met with [Witness
8 39] and Mr. Alan Mains, Sergeant. We spoke briefly about
9 Mr. Breen, Breen -- and further discussion with [Witness
10 39], and it was during this particular meeting that
11 Mr. Mains made it clear that Harry Breen did not want to go
12 to the meeting in Dundalk.
13 210 Q. And is that the last thing in your diary?
14 A. I have it just down as "various topics".
15 211 Q. Sorry, I asked you to read out your diary. Are the
16 following words in your diary: "He made it clear that
17 Harry Breen did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk"?
18 Is that in your diary?
19 A. "At Armagh, met [Witness 39], Mains and Mr. Breen, and then
20 meeting with [Witness 39], and various topics," and it was
21 during the conversation that that came up.
22 212 Q. Hold on --
23 A. That particular quote is not in my diary.
24 213 Q. OK, OK. How do you recall, 24 years ago, that Alan Mains
25 said to you that Harry Breen did not want to go to the
26 meeting in Dundalk?
27 A. I just didn't get that.
28 214 Q. How do you recall that at the meeting on the 29th of March,
29 1989, Harry Breen said -- or Alan Mains said to you that
30 Harry Breen did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 44
1 A. Well, the situation was, I was in Armagh, and that was
2 three days after the death of Mr. Breen, and Mr. Mains was
3 there, and the discussion took place, and I remember, I
4 remember Alan Mains saying Harry Breen didn't want to go
5 there in the first place, and it stuck in my mind, that is
6 all. All I know, that he said that.
7 215 Q. Can I ask you, sir, did Mr. McBurney mention to you, when
8 you met him, that Alan Mains had given evidence to this
9 Tribunal that he recalled Harry Breen saying to him that he
10 did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk?
11 A. I think that remark might have been passed, but I am not so
12 sure about it, by Mr. McBurney.
13 216 Q. I have to put it to you, sir, and please don't be offended
14 by this, but what, clearly, has happened here, I suggest to
15 you, is that Mr. McBurney got in contact with you and --
16 A. Yes.
17 217 Q. -- he filled your mind full of information that you don't
18 recall but which he managed to get you to put in your
19 statement, such as, one, Barry Connolly mentioning Owen
20 Corrigan at the meeting on the 21st of December, 1988; and,
21 two, the reference to Alan Mains allegedly stating that
22 Harry Breen did not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk.
23 Would you comment on that, please, sir?
24 A. I would comment on it. I remember, I remember Mr. Connolly
25 just drawing to my attention about the first part of your
26 question. And the second part, I was present whenever Alan
27 Mains made the comment, and I think Mr. McBurney may have
28 asked me did I -- would I have remembered it. I remember
29 that comment being made at that particular time; it's a
30 very difficult time, and that was it.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 45
1 218 Q. Who typed up this statement for you?
2 A. Pardon?
3
4 MRS. LAVERTY: I am sorry, we lost you there.
5
6 219 Q. MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Who typed up this statement for you?
7
8 MRS. LAVERTY: The Tribunal.
9 A. The Tribunal typed it up. They took the notes and they
10 subsequently passed the statement to me.
11
12 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: You also mentioned that you had prior
13 knowledge of Owen Corrigan since early 1988. What
14 knowledge did you have of him?
15 A. It was any time that we were working on the border, we
16 always checked out to see what the situation was regarding
17 information, et cetera, and his name came up before, and I
18 never thought anything about it until I heard the name
19 again in Corry Square.
20 220 Q. When you say "his name came up," what did his name come up
21 as?
22 A. Just come up as he was a Detective Sergeant in Dundalk
23 and --
24 221 Q. So, in fairness to you, sir, you are not saying there was
25 anything negative said about Owen Corrigan when you heard
26 about his name prior to Mr. Connolly mentioning it to you,
27 is that correct?
28 A. There was very little negative at that particular time.
29 222 Q. Sorry, sir, I didn't hear your answer there?
30 A. There was very little discussion about Mr. Corrigan.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 46
1 223 Q. OK.
2 A. In general terms, his name might have come up, and that was
3 all the -- the situation that I can remember.
4 224 Q. But am I correct in stating that his name only came up
5 because he was a member of Special Branch in Dundalk?
6 A. That could have been, that could have been, but, I mean, I
7 had nothing else in that particular position regarding
8 Detective Sergeant Corrigan.
9 225 Q. What is your recollection of who brought up his name?
10
11 MRS. LAVERTY: What is your recollection of who brought up
12 his name?
13 A. I can't remember, now, who brought up his name. Just --
14 [loss of sound] -- watch this, that and the other. I am
15 not saying -- it would have come up in general, but it
16 wasn't anything on paper, or anything like that; it was
17 just, when you are making inquiries, but there is
18 nothing -- I didn't know the man, I couldn't recognise --
19 other than, on the day in question, I was told to be
20 careful of what I was saying, and that is what I did, and I
21 had no contact with him.
22 226 Q. But just to finalise this point, sir; you are not saying
23 that you heard negative comments about Owen Corrigan in
24 early 1988, are you?
25 A. I just heard the name Corrigan. I don't know what the
26 context was at the time. It could have been about
27 anything. But as far as Detective Sergeant Corrigan, it
28 only came to mind that I remembered the name when
29 Mr. Connolly at that particular time told me about him. He
30 seemed to be -- know something about him, and I didn't have
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 47
1 any conversation with the gentleman concerned.
2 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Thanks, sir.
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Any other questions for the witness?
5
6 MR. COFFEY: If I may, Mr. Chairman.
7
8 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COFFEY AS FOLLOWS:
9
10 227 Q. MR. COFFEY: Witness M, I appear for retired Sergeant Leo
11 Colton, and I want to ask you some questions.
12 First of all, you make a distinction about being a British
13 civil servant as opposed to a Northern Ireland civil
14 servant, isn't that correct?
15 A. That's right.
16 228 Q. And are you implying --
17
18 MRS. LAVERTY: I am just going to -- he didn't catch who
19 you are representing. He is representing retired Sergeant
20 Leo Colton.
21 A. Yes, yes.
22
23 MR. COFFEY: I am obliged.
24 Are you saying that your unit was the only Customs unit
25 operating in the border area of south Armagh, or were there
26 any other Customs officers operating in that area?
27 A. There was only one investigation unit in Northern Ireland,
28 pertaining to Northern Ireland, and it was -- and all
29 Customs, you had the local Customs stations around the
30 border in Northern Ireland and you had also the preventive
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 48
1 teams, that is the mobile cars that go out and stop
2 vehicles on land boundary offences, and things like that.
3 229 Q. Was your unit separate from those two other types of
4 Customs officers you have identified? Did your unit go out
5 on mobile patrol around the border areas?
6 A. No, we wouldn't be out patrolling the border in cars, or
7 anything like that, there. If there was something detected
8 on the border and it wasn't just a one-off thing and if it
9 needed further investigations, it would be forwarded to us
10 and we'd take the necessary action.
11 230 Q. Did you have regular ongoing contact with local Customs
12 officers, then?
13 A. We had -- yes, we had contact with them on not a regular
14 basis, but when the time, opportunity come about.
15
16 MRS. LAVERTY: We have lost the connection.
17
18 231 Q. MR. COFFEY: What do you mean by the opportunity --
19
20 CHAIRMAN: Mr. Coffey is just pausing. He is now ready to
21 ask another question. Can you hear him now?
22
23 MRS. LAVERTY: Yes.
24
25 232 Q. MR. COFFEY: Witness M, what do you mean by opportunity
26 occurring as regards contact with local Customs officers?
27 A. Yes, if they required assistance, et cetera, they would be
28 in touch with us and say, well, it's more than a land
29 boundary - they were looking after land boundary offences
30 and minor offences - and if somebody was constantly doing
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 49
1 something, we would have a look at it for further
2 investigations.
3 233 Q. You indicated in your statement that as far back as 1978,
4 when you were in the vicinity of property owned by
5 Mr. Murphy, properly known as 'Slab' Murphy, you were
6 assaulted, isn't that correct?
7 A. Yes, that's right.
8 234 Q. And at that time, had you a belief that Mr. Murphy was
9 engaged in smuggling activities?
10 A. We were -- we went down around the border on that
11 particular day and we went past Mr. Murphy's, and it was
12 then, on our return, that we were intercepted by men, by
13 three men, and asked what we were doing there.
14 235 Q. Yes, I understand that. But what I am asking, Witness M,
15 is this: Was it your belief and your unit's belief that as
16 far back as 1978, Mr. Murphy was engaged in smuggling
17 activities?
18 A. We had reason to believe that that particular crossing was
19 very active as regards smuggling.
20 236 Q. And, specifically, Mr. Murphy and his property was being
21 used for smuggling activities?
22 A. Well, Mr. Murphy's premises straddled the border and there
23 was a lot of activity in that end, and if there was any
24 inquiries in that, then we would be in liaison with our
25 counterparts in the Republic of Ireland. It was just a
26 normal border crossing, and other people used it at the
27 same time.
28 237 Q. Is it fair to say, Witness M, that the primary source of
29 your information would have come from the local Customs
30 officers, as to what was happening on the ground with
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 50
1 regard to smuggling activities?
2 A. We would -- we would investigate various things that they
3 would pass on, and we also had our own intelligence, as
4 well, again, devoted to it.
5 238 Q. But the local Customs men were a primary source of
6 information and intelligence for you, isn't that correct?
7 A. That's correct.
8 239 Q. Yes. And it follows, I suggest, as a matter of common
9 sense, that, independent of your unit, local Customs men
10 would have had detailed information and knowledge both
11 about smuggling activities and individuals alleged to be
12 engaged in smuggling activities, isn't that correct?
13 A. It all depends on which area. There is different areas and
14 different patrols.
15 240 Q. Well, if we just confine it specifically to south Armagh
16 and the property of Mr. Murphy, for the moment.
17 A. Yes.
18 241 Q. He had a high reputation, isn't that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 242 Q. And I am suggesting to you, also, would the local Customs
21 men be involved in any major operations involving both the
22 Customs and the Gardaí in the south?
23 A. No.
24 243 Q. Sorry?
25 A. I don't think so.
26 244 Q. They would have no direct involvement, they would not be
27 requested to lend physical assistance in any joint
28 operations between north and south, is that your evidence?
29 A. It would be -- an investigation, if it was -- an
30 investigation of any magnitude, it would be dealt with
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 51
1 between the investigation itself and their colleagues in
2 the Republic of Ireland and the assistance of the PSNI in
3 Northern Ireland and the Garda in the Republic of Ireland,
4 I understand.
5 245 Q. So are you suggesting, then, that the local Customs men in
6 Northern Ireland, outside, just patrolling, had no other
7 functions?
8 A. The local Customs on the border were responsible for the
9 importation and exportation of grains to the land boundary
10 stations.
11 246 Q. Did they have any investigative role at all?
12 A. No.
13 247 Q. They had none whatsoever?
14 A. Apart from an inquiry role. If they stopped somebody and
15 seized something, they would make further inquiries on it
16 and clear it up themselves.
17 248 Q. Yes. I must suggest to you, Witness M, that local Customs
18 men would have a greater knowledge of the individuals
19 alleged to be engaged in smuggling in the south Armagh
20 area; wouldn't they know that, as a matter of common sense?
21 A. Yes.
22 249 Q. And are you saying that they would have no hand, act or
23 part in any investigation into sustained smuggling
24 activities going on in their area?
25 A. No, that would not be the case, because the local station,
26 Customs stations, would be checked out to see what legal
27 exports and imports were taking place at that particular
28 station.
29 250 Q. Would local Customs officers ever give evidence if a case
30 came to court?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 52
1 A. You left us there. 2
3 MRS. LAVERTY: Can you repeat that, please.
4
5 251 Q. MR. COFFEY: Would local Customs officers ever give
6 evidence in the event of any smuggling cases coming to
7 court?
8 A. I understand they did if it was a straightforward seizures,
9 and things of that, but if it was something of a
10 complicated nature, it would be passed over and then we
11 would take that on board or somebody would take it on board
12 and deal with it.
13 252 Q. I see.
14 A. They would be getting on with the day-to-day --
15 253 Q. On an average week, how often would you have been
16 personally in the south Armagh area, Witness M?
17 A. On an average week, it could be once, twice a week. It
18 would depend on the trend and the MCAs on the thing.
19 It wouldn't be -- if people were smuggling cattle and there
20 was no MCAs to be avoided or obtained, it wouldn't be
21 feasible. So if it was feasible that it was, say, £100 per
22 beast, then we would see, as a pattern, what is happening
23 as regards legal exports; cattle could be legally exported
24 between Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland, and then
25 that would have been the case, and, if that dropped off,
26 that would give you an indicator.
27 254 Q. Yes. Did you interact on such occasions when you visited
28 south Armagh, with local Customs officers?
29
30 MRS. LAVERTY: Could you repeat that, please?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 53
1
2 255 Q. MR. COFFEY: When you visited south Armagh in the course of
3 your duties, did you interact with the local Customs
4 officers on those occasions?
5 A. Not on every occasion. We would have called in and spoke
6 to them and asked them was there anything unusual, and that
7 would have been it. And if they needed any assistance with
8 anything, they would have been in touch with us.
9 256 Q. In the course of your career, did you work with Mr. Eamon
10 Collins, a self-confessed member of the IRA?
11 A. Did I...
12
13 MRS. LAVERTY: ... work with Eamon Collins?
14 A. No. He was one of the local Customs officers.
15 257 Q. MR. COFFEY: Yes. You are aware of him?
16 A. I heard of him, yes, definitely, yes.
17 258 Q. And it would appear from his own confessions and
18 admissions, he gave significant information to the IRA
19 concerning security aspects within Northern Ireland?
20 A. I couldn't comment on that because I don't know, really.
21 259 Q. What I am suggesting to you, Witness M, that a local
22 Customs officer such as Mr. Collins was able to give very
23 important and vital information to the IRA regarding
24 security issues?
25 A. Well, all security issues of that nature would be dealt
26 with, with the PSNI.
27 260 Q. And I lead on from that, Witness M, that, contrary to what
28 you might imply, local Customs officers had a detailed
29 knowledge of affairs within their area in south Armagh,
30 and, in particular, the activities, alleged smuggling
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 54
1 activities of 'Slab' Murphy?
2 A. They could have, yes; they'd definitely be -- have a
3 knowledge of it, but our role was, more or less, for to
4 carry out an investigation if it was apparent that there
5 was a lot of activity being used at a particular border
6 crossing.
7 261 Q. And I am also suggesting, Witness M, that any proposed
8 anti-smuggling activity against Mr. Murphy, or his
9 associates, would have been within the knowledge of local
10 Customs men?
11 A. They probably knew of him, yes.
12 262 Q. And also, I am suggesting that --
13 A. But it wouldn't -- nobody would have -- if there is an
14 operation going to take place, that would be all down to
15 the investigation people who were in charge of that
16 particular investigation.
17 MR. COFFEY: Yes. Thank you.
18
19 MS. O'SULLIVAN: I have no questions.
20
21 CHAIRMAN: Anybody else with questions?
22
23 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, I have a number of brief questions for
24 this witness.
25
26 CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Robinson, please.
27
28 THE WITNESS WAS CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. ROBINSON AS FOLLOWS:
29
30 263 Q. MR. ROBINSON: Witness M, my name is Mark Robinson, and I
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 55
1 appear on behalf of the PSNI. I wonder if I can deal
2 firstly with your dealings with Chief Superintendent Breen.
3 What was your impression of Chief Superintendent Breen from
4 your workings with him?
5 A. I found that Chief Superintendent Breen -- the late Chief
6 Superintendent Harry Breen, to me, was a very concerned and
7 helpful person. And we would have to go into his station
8 if we were going to carry out an operation and ask for
9 assistance under the Customs and Excise Act, and we had no
10 problem; he always did his best to assist us.
11 264 Q. And in your view, what level of appreciation did Chief
12 Superintendent Breen have regarding the security around the
13 border area?
14 A. He was very conscious of security and smuggling, as you
15 know; he was advised to try and do something about it, and
16 he had a keen interest, he had a keen interest in the
17 workings of Customs, and that meant that we were able to
18 update him on the trend, the way things were happening in
19 relation to MCA, and things like that, and give him an
20 idea.
21 265 Q. And can you give the Chairman some element of context
22 regarding the risk along the border area, and not just for
23 Customs but for police, during this material time?
24
25 MRS. LAVERTY: Can you repeat the question, Mr. Robinson,
26 please.
27
28 266 Q. MR. ROBINSON: Can you give the Chairman a description or
29 your view on the level of risk around the border at that
30 time?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 56
1 A. Yes, the risk of food strapping, is that what you are
2 referring to, the smuggling of foods?
3 267 Q. Well, the risk of harm to both Customs officers and police
4 officers along the border at that time?
5 A. Yes, there was always a very high risk of coming in
6 conflict with the situations on the border. When you were
7 doing an operation, especially over a period of time, the
8 PSNI would have been there and they would have looked after
9 all the security matters pertaining to us and allowed us to
10 get on with our job.
11 268 Q. And if I can move, Witness M, to the level of smuggling
12 going on around this area. Relative to the rest of the
13 border, was this a higher level of activity or a lower or
14 medium rate of activity?
15 A. There was a lot less of smuggling went on in south Armagh
16 and different -- parts of south Armagh, and the smuggling
17 of cattle and pigs and grain were very prominent at that
18 particular time.
19 269 Q. And was your attention throughout Northern Ireland or was
20 it drawn to this particular region?
21 A. No, we would have an interest in all cross-border places
22 throughout Northern Ireland.
23 270 Q. And were you involved in the planning of operations with
24 Irish Customs along the south Armagh border?
25 A. I, and me, personally, was not involved; that would have
26 been a higher level, but we had -- any operation on the
27 Northern Ireland side of the border which incorporated
28 farms or sheds straddling the border, the Republic of
29 Ireland Customs would be involved and they would always
30 have, probably, Garda back-up.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 57
1 271 Q. And if I can just address that point of how the operations
2 were planned. How far in advance were operations planned?
3 A. I, personally, myself, was not involved in 'Operation
4 Amazing', as it's known, and other than it was ongoing for
5 a considerable length of time in preparation.
6 272 Q. And, generally speaking, if you were to search properties
7 that straddled the border and you required assistance from
8 Irish Customs, how far in advance would the planning for
9 such operations take place?
10 A. Well, this all depends on the type of operation. If it was
11 a small operation, it might be just very quick, but I am
12 led to believe if you were doing a joint operation, it
13 would be known for a considerable amount of time.
14 273 Q. And that would also involve coordination with An Garda
15 Siochana?
16 A. That's correct, I understand that.
17 274 Q. And can you give the Chairman any assistance in relation to
18 how often searches or operations were frustrated, for
19 example, if you had information of premises being used and
20 you then searched those premises and they were empty, can
21 you recall - I know it's a long time ago - can you recall
22 the incidents of frustration?
23 A. Well, there is many a time that you prepared and went and
24 there was nothing in the sheds, and things like that, but
25 it all depends on the type of operation. If it was cattle,
26 they usually were on the move fairly quickly on the
27 smuggling side.
28 275 Q. And can you recall any incidents when you attended searches
29 along the border and they were frustrated?
30 A. Yes, you would be inclined to be a bit frustrated if there
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 58
1 was nothing there, but that was the situation, that you had
2 to live with this from time to time.
3 276 Q. Did it happen more often than not in the south Armagh
4 border region?
5 A. No, it wasn't very -- it wasn't all that prevalent because
6 there was only certain operations that were carried out and
7 it might have took a long time to plan them and they were
8 usually successful.
9 277 Q. Now, you mentioned, earlier, that you would -- before
10 performing an operation, you would perform checks as to
11 what was the position along the border. Who would you
12 check with?
13 A. You would visit -- well, if you were going down, you would
14 visit the border and you would have a look at the various
15 crossings and you would get indications, then, of the
16 traffic movements in that particular area. And if it was
17 being used a lot or not used, or whatever, that would be an
18 indicator.
19 278 Q. And with whom would you speak regarding the position along
20 the border; is that local Customs officers or was it your
21 Irish Customs counterparts?
22 A. Well, if we were working on -- if we were working on
23 something, we would be working with the Republic of Ireland
24 SIB colleagues down there, and we would be visiting on our
25 side of the border, and no doubt they would be doing the
26 same.
27 279 Q. And can you assist, Witness M, did you attend any meetings
28 with Irish Customs south of the border?
29 A. Any meetings?
30 280 Q. Did you travel across the border to meet Irish Customs?
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 59
1 A. Oh, yes, oh, yes.
2 281 Q. And how often did that take place?
3 A. It depended. It could be, if there was inquiries to be
4 made with other things going on, apart from the actual
5 border, as to imports/exports, and documentation had to be
6 checked in Northern Ireland on behalf of the Republic of
7 Ireland, they would come up under the Convention in reach
8 of assistance and they would be accompanied to the premises
9 and we would carry out checks in Northern Ireland, or vice
10 versa.
11 282 Q. And where were the meetings held in the south?
12 A. Any meetings we had in the Republic of Ireland would be
13 with the Special Investigation Branch in Dublin.
14 283 Q. And did you take any safety precautions when you travelled
15 over across the border?
16 A. Just the normal personal considerations at the time, of
17 what was happening. We went down to Dublin and did the
18 work and came back up again.
19 284 Q. And did you travel at short notice?
20 A. Yes, if the matter came to hand fairly quickly or our
21 colleagues in the south wanted something done urgently, if
22 there was cattle seized, a typical example, if cattle was
23 seized in Northern Ireland and they had an indication that
24 the cattle were -- had been illegally imported into the
25 south, we would do a quick check for them and then it would
26 be fully up to the FA as to the authentication of their
27 tags, et cetera, with cattle.
28 285 Q. And finally, Witness M, you mentioned that you were not
29 actually involved in 'Operation Amazing'. I wonder,
30 without mentioning any names, have you been able to provide
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 60
1 names to the Tribunal, the Tribunal team?
2 A. No, I actually was involved in something else completely.
3 And this particular operation, 'Operation Amazing', as you
4 referred to, it was solely investigated by Glasgow, with
5 the assistance of our team in Belfast.
6 286 Q. And is it the position, then, that you are unable to
7 provide the names of the Customs civil servants that
8 operated from Glasgow?
9 A. From Belfast?
10 287 Q. No, from Glasgow?
11 A. From Glasgow - I am sure they could be contacted.
12 MR. ROBINSON: I have no further questions.
13
14 CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Anybody else with any questions?
15 Very good. I think that concludes the evidence. Thank you
16 very much, Witness M, thank you very much for coming to
17 give evidence. You have been very helpful to the Tribunal,
18 and we are very grateful to you. I think now,
19 Mrs. Laverty, you will be able to cut off the link between
20 Belfast and Dublin.
21
22 MRS. LAVERTY: Yes. Thank you, Chairperson.
23
24 CHAIRMAN: Yes. Good.
25
26 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Chairman, could I just make one point
27 briefing arising from the evidence given by Witness M,
28 there.
29
30 CHAIRMAN: Yes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 61
1
2 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Sir, it's now apparent from the evidence
3 of Witness M and, indeed, the evidence of other witnesses
4 who have given evidence recently, that Mr. McBurney is
5 travelling the highways and byways of Northern Ireland
6 trying to recruit and coach witnesses for the purpose of
7 giving negative evidence about my client. I want to make
8 two or, possibly, three points in respect of that: First
9 of all, it's deeply regrettable that Mr. McBurney should
10 seek to be trying to get evidence and trying to mould
11 evidence, as is apparent from the evidence just given by
12 the witness, for the purpose of trying to frame my client,
13 and that is a strong term but I use it appropriately.
14 The objective of Mr. McBurney, as is the objective of
15 everyone here, should be to establish the truth. And
16 secondly, Mr. McBurney should be informed, because he is a
17 solicitor practicing outside the jurisdiction, that
18 although in this jurisdiction hearsay evidence and rumour
19 evidence is allowed to be given to Tribunals of Inquiry, a
20 Tribunal of Inquiry, as you will know, and submissions will
21 be made upon, cannot make findings in its report based on
22 rumour and hearsay. I think that is a point that should be
23 brought to Mr. McBurney's attention, and it may save him
24 some time in travelling around Northern Ireland.
25
26 Finally, we had been informed that Mr. Corrigan was to be
27 the last witness, and I presume we are not going to be
28 given more surprises as to other witnesses generated by
29 Mr. McBurney who come to give their evidence after
30 Mr. Corrigan finishes.
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 62
1
2 It is a point I thought I should make, Chairman, it's a
3 relevant point from Mr. Corrigan's point of view, and it's
4 a matter I shall be addressing further in my submissions.
5
6 CHAIRMAN: Is there any observation to be made by
7 Mr. McBurney, if he wishes, about that?
8
9 MR. McBURNEY: I am obliged for the opportunity to speak on
10 the matter. These outrageous remarks by My Friend, I think
11 cannot go unchallenged. I have made no secret for a number
12 of years of the fact that I have tried my best to encourage
13 many witnesses from outside this jurisdiction to assist
14 this Tribunal in its endeavours. I have spoken to many who
15 have attended at the Tribunal. I have spoken to many who,
16 sadly, have not attended at this Tribunal, and I would
17 encourage them by this means, once again, to please do so.
18
19 I resent very much, and deeply, the allegation that I am
20 attempting to frame, as has been said, Detective Sergeant
21 Corrigan. I take that as a very serious remark. I ask for
22 it to be withdrawn or proved in some way. Because I do not
23 believe it is in any way sustainable.
24
25 I appreciate, Mr. Chairman, the opportunity to make these
26 remarks.
27
28 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. I think that,
29 Mr. O'Callaghan, you have been rather harsh in the
30 observation that Mr. McBurney was trying to organise
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 63
1 witnesses to frame your client. He is perfectly entitled,
2 he appears for the family of one of the victims of the
3 particular incident. He appears for the family, and he is
4 very keen that all the truth should come out, and
5 encouraging people to give evidence is one aspect of that,
6 and I think he is perfectly entitled to do it. You are
7 perfectly entitled in due course, no doubt you will in your
8 submissions, make points about whether evidence has been --
9 is not to be relied on, but I think it's going too far, I
10 don't think you have any grounds for saying that he is
11 coaching witnesses in their evidence.
12
13 MR. O'CALLAGHAN: Perhaps I should explain why I said that,
14 sir: This witness initially said that he came to give
15 evidence to this Tribunal because of the Tribunal. I asked
16 him who contacted him. He never mentioned Mr. McBurney.
17 When I mentioned Mr. McBurney's name, he accepted that in
18 fact he had spoken to Mr. McBurney. I then asked him if
19 Mr. McBurney had spoken about Mr. Corrigan, and he accepted
20 that Mr. McBurney had spoken to him and had raised the
21 issue of Mr. Corrigan. I then asked him, crucially, about
22 the statement he makes at the end of his statement, where
23 he said that Alan Mains made it clear that Harry Breen did
24 not want to go to the meeting in Dundalk. I was surprised
25 that this witness was able to recall that, since it wasn't
26 in his diary. He said, in his evidence, that this was
27 something that was discussed with Mr. McBurney.
28
29 Now, it's a serious allegation, but I don't stand down from
30 it. And Mr. McBurney has to recognise, that if he is going
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 64
1 to try and get people to give evidence here, that he should
2 not go to them and start raising issues which are negative
3 to my client, with them. They should come here of their
4 own accord to give honest and truthful evidence, and he
5 doesn't need to prompt them to give evidence that is
6 negative to my client.
7
8 MR. McBURNEY: Perhaps, Mr. Chairman, if I could just have
9 a very brief right of response on that aspect.
10
11 CHAIRMAN: Yes.
12
13 MR. McBURNEY: I contacted Mr. [Redacted] having inquired
14 from the Tribunal, and I apologise, Mr. Chairman, I
15 shouldn't have mentioned the name.
16
17 CHAIRMAN: We will pass over that.
18
19 MR. McBURNEY: I contacted this witness because of, and you
20 will understand my dilemma in mentioning the name, because,
21 in fact, he is mentioned in a statement made by Mr. Mains
22 48 hours or thereabouts after the murder of Mr. Breen and
23 Mr. Buchanan. And I checked if he had thus far been
24 contacted, and I believed at that point that he had not. I
25 then made contact with him through contact details supplied
26 to me by an official in Northern Ireland, and I explained
27 the relevancy of his potential evidence by making reference
28 to that statement. Now, that statement contained within
29 it, having been made two days after the murder of the two
30 men, Sergeant Mains said in his statement that he had been
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 65
1 tasked to contact Customs and Excise and then the gentleman
2 is named, and then it says "This I did." And I said to
3 him, "You are named in a statement by Detective Sergeant
4 Mains, made shortly after the murders." And in that
5 context, I explained to this gentleman how he could be
6 relevant. He then said, "The Tribunal is investigating
7 Garda," and I named not only Detective Sergeant Corrigan
8 but I named the other Sergeants who are also represented at
9 the Tribunal, and in fact, I named two or three other Garda
10 officers' names as well who have given evidence at the
11 Tribunal. And I said, "If you have any matters touching
12 upon the terms or reference of the Tribunal, will you
13 please speak to the Tribunal lawyers." And I then arranged
14 for two Tribunal lawyers to meet with this gentleman and,
15 sadly, the other gentleman who hasn't yet agreed to give
16 evidence. And it's as simple as that. And I discussed,
17 certainly, the content of Sergeant Mains' statement, which
18 was made shortly after the murders, and I make no apology,
19 Mr. Chairman, to Mr. O'Callaghan or anyone else, for so
20 doing. I appreciate the time.
21
22 CHAIRMAN: I think that that is perfectly legitimate, in my
23 view, and I think that it's perfectly correct that
24 Mr. McBurney should have done that, drawn the attention of
25 the witness to the facts, and I don't think that amounts to
26 coaching or telling him what to say in evidence. I don't
27 think it needs to be discussed any further, so I think we
28 will leave it at that.
29
30 MR. HAYES: It's very close to 1:00, but what remains for
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 66
1 me to do today is only going to take certainly less than
2 ten minutes, and I wonder...
3
4 CHAIRMAN: Do you want to do that now?
5
6 MR. HAYES: I think if it were convenient. What I might
7 also say, and obviously Mr. McBurney is well able to speak
8 on his own behalf, as he has done, but I might just point
9 out that there were a number of witnesses who reside in
10 Northern Ireland who had no interest in speaking to us as
11 your lawyers until Mr. McBurney acted as an intermediary
12 and persuaded them they should do so, and some of them were
13 witnesses who gave evidence entirely unrelated to
14 Mr. Corrigan.
15
16 But what remains, Chairman, to be done is, there was, on
17 the 5th of April 1989, there was a meeting of the
18 Anglo-Irish Inter-Governmental Conference in Belfast. Part
19 of that, there was a discussion on security matters, and
20 there was a note made by an official from the Department of
21 Foreign Affairs, which records in some detail what was
22 discussed. This was, obviously, just very slightly more
23 than a fortnight after the murders of Breen and Buchanan,
24 and needless to say, a portion of that discussion concerned
25 those murders and have some relevance, therefore, to what
26 you are investigating.
27
28 If I might just, by putting it slightly in context, Gerry
29 Collins gave evidence to you on Day 32, which was the 13th
30 of September, and in the course of that he gave some
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 67
1 description of the process of these meetings. And he was
2 examined in the first instance by Mrs. Laverty at page 39,
3 and at question 131 he was asked:-
4
5 "Question: And these must have been -- as a result of all
6 of these cross-border matters you would have had a lot of
7 interaction with your peers north of the border?
8 Answer: But certainly there was an established schedule of
9 procedures at the time which we would communicate, but more
10 particularly so after the establishment of the Anglo Irish
11 Agreement. After that agreement then, with the conference,
12 we had set procedures. We would meet regularly with the
13 Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and sometimes with
14 the Home Secretary in the UK.
15 Question: And who would be at those meetings?
16 Answer: And our side the Minister, the Secretary General
17 of the Department of Justice, the Garda Commissioner, the
18 Minister For Foreign Affairs; and on the northern side or
19 on the British side it was the Secretary of State for
20 Northern Ireland and the Chief Constable of the RUC and a
21 whole host of officials as well.
22 Question: And how often would you meet at these
23 inter-governmental meetings?
24 Answer: Normally every two to three months. We would have
25 meetings in Belfast, meetings in London, meetings in
26 Dublin. Sometimes in special circumstances we would have
27 more frequent meetings.
28 Question: You mentioned that the Chief Constable of the
29 RUC would be there from the North?" And he confirmed that.
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 68
1 He was asked:-
2
3 "Question: And I take it that you would have a very good
4 relationship with Sir John Hermon, now deceased, is that
5 correct?
6 Answer: The relationship from our side with Sir Jack
7 Hermon and the Northern Ireland Police Force was primarily
8 through the Garda Commissioner. The system of operation
9 was that, firstly before meetings there would be a
10 political meeting just between Ministers on both sides.
11 The length of these meetings depended on the agenda that
12 would have been there at the particular time. The second
13 stage would be meetings dealing specifically with security
14 matters. At these meetings you would have the Secretary of
15 State Northern Ireland and his deputies, and the Chief
16 Constable; on our side the Garda Commissioner and the
17 Ministers from our side and the Director General of the
18 Department. And the final session would have been the full
19 team on both sides with the appropriate officials.
20 Question: Were these discussions when it came to security,
21 were they frank, were they thorough?
22 Answer: Very much so, believe me, very much so. No holds
23 barred. Very delicate issues nearly at all meetings."
24
25 And that was just slightly further amplified when
26 Mr. Durack cross-examined him. And he said:-
27
28 "Answer: If there was a suspicion held within the Ulster
29 Constabulary that a mole existed in a very sensitive
30 station for us, which Dundalk was, well, then if they
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 69
1 believed that and if they held that view, then obviously
2 the matter would have been raised immediately and at the
3 highest level; it would have been raised at the
4 Commissioner level and at Ministerial level. As
5 Mrs. Laverty said earlier on, when we had the meetings
6 dealing with security, that would have been a big issue for
7 that sort of meeting. As I said, these meetings were no
8 holds barred, you know; the truth had to be dealt with no
9 matter how nasty at times.
10 Question: But no such issue was ever raised?
11 Answer: Never, ever."
12
13 Then on the -- on this meeting, and the note is -- first of
14 all, it was -- it's marked "Secret", and the permission was
15 sought from the Department of Justice to use this in open
16 session. That was readily granted, Chairman.
17
18 It's headed: "Meeting of the Anglo-Irish
19 Inter-Governmental Conference, Belfast, 5th April 1989."
20 And it's entitled: "A note of discussion on cross-border
21 security cooperation."
22
23 It notes that the restricted session on cross-border
24 security cooperation commenced at approximately 12:25 p.m.,
25 immediately after the first stage of the plenary session,
26 and it finished about 1:50 p.m.. It was attended on the
27 Irish side by the Tanaiste and the Minister for Foreign
28 Affairs, the late Mr. Lenihan; the Minister for Justice
29 Mr. Collins; the Secretary General of the Department of
30 Justice; the Garda Commissioner Mr. Crowley, and an
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 70
1 official from the Department of Foreign Affairs who was in
2 the secretariat in Maryfield.
3
4 On the British side were Secretary of State, Mr. King; the
5 Minister of State, Mr. Ian Stewart; the Chief Constable,
6 Sir John Hermon; the Deputy Secretary of the Northern
7 Ireland Office and an NIO official from the secretariat in
8 Maryfield.
9
10 Just, I suppose, by way of a health warning it notes:
11
12 "The following note which is in the form of direct speech
13 does not purport to be a verbatim record and nor is it
14 necessarily exhaustive of all the exchanges."
15
16 Initially, at the beginning of the meeting, the Chief
17 Constable and the Commissioner were engaged elsewhere and
18 they missed the first short period of the meeting. And I
19 think they then joined the meeting shortly into it, and it
20 is noted, Chairman, after they had joined, Mr. Collins is
21 noted as having said:-
22
23 "The murder of Chief Superintendent Breen and
24 Superintendent Buchanan shocked us all. Not just because
25 of the human tragedy involved, but also because of the
26 propaganda value such an incident gives to the IRA. And I
27 would like to ask the Chief Constable to convey our
28 sympathies to the families of the two men and also to their
29 colleagues in the RUC. We have all been deeply shocked by
30 the incident. I think now that one of the objectives is to
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 71
1 ensure that every step that we can take to prevent a
2 recurrence, is taken. I am aware that at the weekend
3 Deputy Commissioner Culligan will be meeting his opposite
4 number in the RUC to work out ways and means of improving
5 security in these matters. I think that is very
6 necessary."
7
8 "MR. KING: I am very grateful for what you have said. I
9 know the Chief Constable also appreciates your remarks.
10 What was so shocking about this was that it was a blatant
11 and very obvious attack on our cooperation, our working
12 together. It was a deliberate attack on our two countries,
13 and in the face of that I think the only response is we can
14 cannot possibly stand back from it.
15
16 "MR. COLLINS: No, I absolutely agree. The meetings must
17 go on. Although, I think we have to be more careful about
18 how we do things, but that is a matter that no doubt will
19 be looked at by the Assistant Chief Constable and
20 Mr. Culligan next weekend.
21
22 "CHIEF CONSTABLE: We have already taken certain steps, but
23 until we complete our full analysis of the incident we will
24 not be able to assess the full implications for all our
25 meetings, which are occurring at three different levels:
26 You have the Uniform Branch of the police, the CID and the
27 Special Branch.
28
29 "MR. KING: I think the killings brought out very clearly
30 the determination of the IRA to smash this kind of
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 72
1 cooperation. Another aspect is the sectarian element
2 involved in the story that was put out afterwards about a
3 Garda mole. I think this was dealt with very strongly by
4 the Chief Constable immediately after the thing was first
5 publicised.
6
7 "TANAISTE: Yes, and I think that was very important
8 indeed.
9
10 "MR. KING: I made it clear myself that there was
11 absolutely no justification for such a story, but I think
12 it is very typical of the forces that [sic] our work in all
13 of these matters. Their first inclination is to seek out
14 these sort of things and try and work them into the
15 headlines.
16
17 "MR. COLLINS: I think that, unfortunately, we can all get
18 into a certain pattern of action and complacency can set
19 in. I have asked the Commissioner to see whether there was
20 scope whereby the IRA could have monitored movements, and
21 having pressed on him the need to avoid any pattern of
22 activity.
23
24 "CHIEF CONSTABLE: I think that with one of the men who was
25 killed, there was a certain faith dimension involved
26 because of his religious persuasion.
27
28 "MR. KING: The media stories in the immediate aftermath
29 also had a terrible flavour of trying to categorise the
30 thing in terms of which side of the border the killers were
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 73
1 from.
2
3 "MR. COLLINS: I thought that it was acknowledged that this
4 was something carried out by the Crossmaglen Active Service
5 Unit of the IRA. One of the things I think we should look
6 at is that there was a delay of about 25 minutes before the
7 Gardaí were notified. Perhaps if they had been told
8 sooner, it might have been possible to establish roadblocks
9 to prevent the getaway, but this is something we can look
10 at. I think it was reported that the shooting took place
11 somewhere between 3:25 and 3:50. But it was at least 4:15
12 before the Gardaí at Dromad and Dundalk were told. Now, I
13 am not making any particular point of that, but I think
14 it's a factor that we might focus on."
15
16 The Chief Constable, and he is noted as to be reading from
17 what appeared to be an internal police report on the
18 incident, said: "It says here that it was 4:04 when an
19 emergency 999 call was made to Rathcarr Police Station, and
20 at 4:22 the ambulance reported that two men were shot dead.
21 I will certainly take up the point you make and I will let
22 the Commissioner know when I have checked it out.
23
24 "MR. COLLINS: In my view, we have an example of the best
25 cooperation that has ever occurred between the two forces
26 in trying to deal with the after-effects of these horrific
27 killings. Now, I'd like to have that fact formally
28 recorded, and to thank the Garda Commissioner and the Chief
29 Constable for the way in which they have approached this.
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 74
1 "CHIEF CONSTABLE: As far as I am concerned, cooperation
2 could not be better between the two forces, and the Garda
3 put every facility at our disposal in relation to this
4 particular event. I have nothing but the highest
5 admiration and appreciation for them for what they have
6 done.
7
8 "MR. COLLINS: I am very grateful to the Chief Constable
9 for that. I think it is right that the meetings should go
10 on. We must have this kind of cooperation, for all the
11 reasons that bring us together around this table.
12
13 "MR. KING: These killings reinforce the need for that kind
14 of cooperation and for these meetings.
15
16 "MR. COLLINS: The Commissioner and I intend to get
17 together sometime next week after the meeting next Saturday
18 between the two Deputies, and the Commissioner will be
19 briefing me fully on the outcome of that. My intention is
20 to ensure that everything possible is being done to provide
21 the maximum protection for those travelling northwards and
22 southwards, as the case may be. But there are one or two
23 related matters arising out of that event; one is the
24 question of the documentation that the IRA may have got.
25 Could the Chief Constable tell us anything about that? How
26 serious was it?
27
28 "CHIEF CONSTABLE: I think we can be reassured that there
29 was no important documentation in their possession. We are
30 satisfied that all the IRA got was the diaries of the two
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 75
1 men. We have been trying to piece together what might have
2 been in the diaries, and one of the things we did was to
3 look at both men's diaries for last year. It has given us
4 a good idea of what was involved. The only thing in those
5 diaries were lists of telephone numbers of contacts, mainly
6 in Northern Ireland. I think this is especially so in the
7 case of Chief Superintendent Breen. I think we have a fair
8 idea of what was in his diary, we are checking this out
9 with people in the North, some of the contacts involved,
10 but they were mainly in the army and police.
11
12 "MR. COLLINS: I think I am right in saying that the main
13 purpose of that tragic meeting was in fact the bother that
14 we have been having with the rail link that is a serious
15 problem there. I think one of the unfortunate things about
16 that meeting, were that if the south Armagh area were a
17 safer area for the police, these men might not have gone by
18 the Jonesboro route. Perhaps the Chief Constable and the
19 Commissioner could give us a general assessment of the
20 whole Killeen area in policing terms. There is also the
21 question of the rail link and what we can do ourselves to
22 ensure it is kept open. Perhaps one of the lessons is to
23 encourage greater use of the main roads.
24
25 "COMMISSIONER: We have been looking at our policing effort
26 in this whole area in relation to the railway line and the
27 fact that we patrol right up to the border, Kilnasaggart,
28 where we link up with the RUC. So we are already doing as
29 much as we can in policing terms on our side."
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 76
1 That then, Chairman, is the discussion insofar as it
2 related to these murders. The conversation or the meeting
3 went on and is recorded for a further dozen or so, another
4 17 pages, relating to other security matters that don't
5 concern you. But what I suppose I can say is, that at
6 no -- other than the brief reference to the issue of a
7 mole, that I have read out, there is no further discussion
8 of that issue at the meeting on the 5th of April.
9
10 CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much.
11
12 MR. HAYES: I think that then concludes today, and the next
13 sitting is scheduled, as I understand it, for next Tuesday.
14
15 CHAIRMAN: Yes. And I don't think any other witness is
16 likely to appear before next Tuesday, Mr. O'Callaghan. So,
17 that is it, then, until Tuesday next at 11 o'clock. Thank
18 you very much.
19
20 THE TRIBUNAL THEN ADJOURNED TO TUESDAY, 19TH OF JUNE, 2012,
21 AT 11 A.M.. 22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 1
' 23rd [8] - 20:20, 21:27, 16:17, 38:13, 53:22, 71:16 47:10, 53:17, 55:1, 21:30, 22:1, 22:6, 55:17, 59:30, 60:19, agreeable [2] - 36:16, 76:16 '12 [1] - 40:4 22:15, 22:17, 22:21 63:25, 66:7, 71:24 41:12 appeared [1] - 73:17 '80s [1] - 10:14 24 [6] - 38:13, 39:19, absolutely [4] - 6:4, agreed [1] - 65:15 applicable [2] - 21:5, '88 [3] - 23:21, 35:27, 40:6, 41:26, 42:12, 36:20, 71:16, 72:11 Agreement [1] - 67:11 21:10 39:27 43:24 ACC [4] - 19:2, 19:8, agreement [1] - 67:11 apply [3] - 8:4, 9:5, 16:7 'Operation [14] - 10:1, 24th [10] - 18:30, 19:9, 19:15, 19:17 Agriculture [2] - 4:12, appointment [4] - 27:18, 10:2, 10:4, 20:22, 21:9, 40:4, 40:20, 40:23, accepted [2] - 63:17, 6:13 27:20, 28:3, 28:4 21:19, 22:4, 30:6, 31:2, 41:4, 41:23, 42:18, 63:19 ahead [1] - 26:18 appreciate [2] - 62:25, 34:13, 39:21, 57:3, 42:19 accompanied [2] - 19:26, Alan [12] - 25:24, 25:29, 65:20 59:29, 60:3 25 [1] - 73:6 59:8 26:5, 26:8, 43:8, 43:24, appreciates [1] - 71:9 'Owen [1] - 42:17 27 [1] - 14:23 accord [1] - 64:4 43:29, 44:4, 44:8, appreciation [2] - 55:11, 'Slab' [7] - 11:13, 12:20, 27th [2] - 13:3, 21:30 according [1] - 20:4 44:21, 44:26, 63:23 74:5 18:28, 19:15, 21:7, 28 [1] - 12:27 account [1] - 4:12 all-round [1] - 17:26 apprise [1] - 16:9 49:5, 54:1 28th [6] - 25:17, 42:24, achieve [4] - 15:25, allay [1] - 18:13 apprised [1] - 20:9 42:26, 42:27, 43:3, 43:4 16:29, 17:2, 17:28 allegation [2] - 62:19, approach [1] - 40:7 0 29th [4] - 43:1, 43:2, 43:5, acknowledged [1] - 73:3 63:29 approached [2] - 40:14, 43:28 act [1] - 51:22 allegations [2] - 22:26 73:29 0001 [1] - 13:2 2nd [1] - 14:5 Act [1] - 55:9 alleged [10] - 12:28, 13:7, approaching [1] - 14:30 acted [1] - 66:11 [1] 1 13:11, 22:5, 23:14, appropriate - 68:19 3 acting [2] - 28:4, 28:8 33:9, 37:7, 50:11, appropriately [1] - 61:13 1 [2] - 14:1, 14:6 action [3] - 14:10, 48:10, 51:19, 53:30 April [3] - 66:17, 69:19, 32 [1] - 66:29 10th [1] - 35:27 72:18 allegedly [4] - 23:4, 76:8 39 [7] - 34:6, 35:14, 43:8, 11 [3] - 1:1, 76:17, 76:21 active [1] - 49:19 23:25, 24:6, 44:21 area [19] - 9:25, 9:30, 43:10, 43:19, 43:20, 1200 [1] - 13:3 Active [1] - 73:4 allocated [2] - 31:8, 31:20 15:10, 20:1, 47:25, 67:2 12:25 [1] - 69:24 actively [1] - 5:5 allowed [4] - 7:27, 15:28, 47:26, 50:13, 51:20, 3:25 [1] - 73:11 12th [1] - 23:21 activities [10] - 30:13, 56:9, 61:19 51:24, 52:16, 53:29, 3:50 [1] - 73:11 131 [1] - 67:3 49:9, 49:17, 49:21, amazing [1] - 10:11 55:13, 55:22, 56:12, 3rd [1] - 19:10 13th [1] - 66:29 50:1, 50:11, 50:12, Amazing' [14] - 10:1, 58:16, 75:16, 75:17, 75:20, 75:26 14K [1] - 12:29 51:24, 53:30, 54:1 10:2, 10:4, 20:22, 4 21:10, 21:19, 22:4, areas [3] - 11:28, 48:5, 14TH [1] - 1:1 activity [9] - 9:25, 9:29, 30:16, 49:23, 54:5, 30:7, 31:2, 34:13, 50:13 14th [2] - 18:20, 19:23 48 [1] - 64:22 54:8, 56:13, 56:14, 39:21, 57:4, 59:29, 60:3 arising [3] - 15:15, 60:27, 15th [1] - 18:21 4:04 [1] - 73:18 72:22 ambulance [1] - 73:20 74:23 16th [2] - 19:13, 19:20 4:15 [1] - 73:11 actual [4] - 29:1, 30:4, amount [2] - 15:22, 57:13 Armagh [30] - 8:8, 9:13, 17 [1] - 76:4 4:22 [1] - 73:20 30:9, 59:4 amounts [3] - 3:1, 17:21, 10:21, 10:28, 11:5, 1974 [2] - 2:8, 2:12 add [1] - 13:6 65:25 11:28, 12:21, 19:15, 1978 [3] - 8:26, 49:3, 5 19:16, 27:25, 27:27, 49:16 additional [1] - 14:14 amplified [1] - 68:25 address [1] - 57:1 analysis [1] - 71:23 27:30, 34:11, 35:8, 1985 [1] - 32:25 56 [1] - 19:1 addressed [1] - 12:14 and.. [1] - 7:4 43:7, 43:19, 44:1, 1988 [14] - 2:30, 10:20, 58 [1] - 12:6 47:25, 50:15, 51:19, 23:8, 23:15, 23:22, 5th [12] - 14:7, 34:1, 34:3, addresses [1] - 14:6 ands [1] - 13:7 52:16, 52:28, 53:2, 24:11, 32:4, 34:1, 35:9, 35:9, 35:13, 35:26, addressing [1] - 62:4 Anglo [3] - 66:18, 67:10, 53:29, 56:15, 56:16, 35:14, 36:19, 44:20, 40:4, 40:23, 41:4, ADJOURNED [1] - 76:20 69:18 56:24, 58:3, 75:16 45:13, 46:24 66:17, 69:19, 76:8 admiration [1] - 74:5 Anglo-Irish [2] - 66:18, 69:18 armed [1] - 16:13 1989 [13] - 11:18, 13:4, admissions [1] - 53:18 arms [1] - 16:4 18:30, 21:22, 25:20, 6 advance [4] - 7:4, 9:27, animal [5] - 3:10, 3:18, army [3] - 11:20, 19:18, 25:22, 31:4, 42:25, 57:2, 57:8 4:1, 4:10 60-hour [1] - 12:28 75:10 42:27, 42:30, 43:29, advice [1] - 13:26 animals [1] - 3:21 6th [4] - 11:18, 14:21, arranged [7] - 27:15, 66:17, 69:19 advised [4] - 16:3, 20:20, annoyance [1] - 11:23 29:8, 29:13 27:24, 28:29, 30:29, 19:40 [1] - 24:23 42:22, 55:15 answer [5] - 26:24, 31:29, 32:4, 32:7, 65:13 19TH [1] - 76:20 advising [1] - 33:19 39:23, 39:25, 45:29 arrangements [1] - 9:3 1:00 [1] - 65:30 7 affairs [1] - 53:29 Answer [7] - 67:8, 67:16, [4] 67:24, 68:6, 68:22, arranging [1] - 28:19 1:50 [1] - 69:26 7th [5] - 11:29, 12:24, Affairs - 66:21, 67:18, 68:28, 69:11 arrest [2] - 22:13, 31:7 1st [3] - 8:26, 13:3, 14:2 18:20, 18:22, 19:13 69:28, 70:1 afraid [1] - 21:29 answered [1] - 13:15 arrested [6] - 22:6, 22:7, 31:3, 31:6, 31:16, 31:27 2 8 after-effects [1] - 73:26 anti [2] - 2:25, 54:8 aftermath [1] - 72:28 anti-smuggling [2] - arrests [1] - 21:21 2 [1] - 35:7 8th [1] - 12:25 afternoon [1] - 35:2 2:25, 54:8 AS [6] - 1:2, 2:2, 27:2, 34:29, 47:8, 54:28 20 [1] - 23:12 afterwards [2] - 9:27, anticipation [1] - 28:26 2012 [3] - 1:1, 40:20, 9 72:2 anything" [1] - 25:13 aspect [3] - 63:5, 64:9, 76:20 agencies [1] - 6:27 anyway [3] - 16:14, 17:4, 72:1 999 [1] - 73:19 aspects [1] - 53:19 20th [8] - 20:3, 28:30, agenda [1] - 68:11 43:5 assassinate [1] - 16:24 29:3, 29:10, 30:19, agent [1] - 22:28 apart [2] - 51:14, 59:4 assaulted [2] - 8:20, 49:6 30:22, 30:25 A agitation [1] - 11:23 apologise [1] - 64:14 21st [11] - 9:17, 10:28, apology [1] - 65:18 assess [2] - 18:3, 71:24 A.M [1] - 1:1 ago [5] - 38:1, 41:26, 10:30, 23:21, 24:11, apparent [3] - 54:4, 61:2, assessment [1] - 75:19 A.M. [1] - 76:21 42:12, 43:24, 57:21 27:15, 28:18, 28:19, 61:11 assist [5] - 40:7, 40:26, able [11] - 6:20, 8:2, agree [3] - 35:23, 36:7, 36:19, 39:26, 44:20 appear [6] - 27:5, 35:4, 55:10, 58:27, 62:13
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 2 assistance [10] - 7:4, 2:25, 12:15, 21:17, 36:3, 36:9, 43:9, 43:11, Castle [1] - 11:19 CID [6] - 34:6, 35:15, 48:27, 50:27, 51:2, 24:23, 28:1, 28:2, 60:5, 43:17, 43:19, 43:25, catch [1] - 47:18 35:18, 35:28, 36:4, 53:7, 55:9, 57:7, 57:17, 60:9, 60:20, 66:18, 43:29, 43:30, 44:2, categorise [1] - 72:29 71:26 59:8, 60:5 67:25, 69:19 44:4, 44:9, 44:22, 55:2, cattle [20] - 3:7, 3:12, cipher [2] - 1:17, 14:23 Assistant [1] - 71:19 belief [3] - 49:8, 49:15 55:3, 55:5, 55:6, 55:12, 3:13, 4:3, 4:5, 4:9, 5:3, circumstances [1] - assisted [1] - 10:6 Bessbrook [1] - 14:2 63:23, 64:22, 66:23, 5:19, 5:22, 5:28, 6:7, 67:26 assisting [1] - 40:15 best [3] - 55:10, 62:12, 70:23, 75:7 52:19, 52:23, 56:17, civil [6] - 2:15, 2:17, 2:18, associates [1] - 54:9 73:24 Breen's [1] - 25:26 57:25, 59:22, 59:24, 47:13, 60:7 assume [1] - 30:6 better [2] - 4:10, 74:2 brief [3] - 54:23, 64:9, 59:27 clear [6] - 26:9, 43:11, assuming [1] - 28:30 between [15] - 2:10, 7:8, 76:6 cell [1] - 14:2 43:16, 51:16, 63:23, AT [2] - 1:1, 76:21 13:2, 17:15, 22:27, briefed [1] - 15:30 certain [8] - 10:7, 15:22, 72:10 attack [2] - 71:11, 71:12 39:26, 50:28, 51:1, briefing [3] - 19:16, 37:7, 37:9, 58:6, 71:22, clearly [2] - 44:14, 71:29 attempting [1] - 62:20 52:24, 60:19, 68:10, 60:27, 74:19 72:18, 72:25 clicked [1] - 42:3 attempts [1] - 13:20 73:11, 73:25, 74:2, briefly [1] - 43:8 certainly [10] - 14:14, client [5] - 61:7, 61:12, attend [2] - 20:8, 58:27 74:18 bring [3] - 4:30, 24:14, 15:24, 17:6, 19:29, 63:1, 64:3, 64:6 attendance [1] - 23:12 beyond [1] - 14:11 74:11 21:19, 21:28, 65:17, close [3] - 3:30, 7:5, attended [9] - 11:18, big [9] - 3:2, 4:26, 6:2, bringing [3] - 4:19, 5:3, 66:1, 67:8, 73:21 65:30 19:16, 19:17, 25:23, 6:3, 6:6, 15:26, 17:18, 31:26 cetera [6] - 2:25, 15:4, closely [1] - 7:13 32:9, 57:28, 62:15, 69:6 British [5] - 2:15, 2:17, 21:9, 45:17, 48:27, closer [2] - 24:13, 24:14 62:16, 69:26 bit [2] - 3:18, 57:30 47:12, 67:19, 70:4 59:27 coach [1] - 61:6 attention [7] - 15:30, blank [1] - 12:19 brought [8] - 3:12, 5:24, Chairman [27] - 1:4, 1:11, coaching [2] - 63:11, 25:4, 25:6, 44:25, blatant [1] - 71:10 11:23, 46:9, 46:11, 1:13, 2:6, 8:12, 21:26, 65:26 56:19, 61:23, 65:24 board [2] - 52:11 46:13, 61:23, 71:29 24:8, 24:10, 26:29, Coffey [1] - 48:20 authentication [1] - 59:26 Bob [4] - 9:6, 9:12, 15:12, Buchanan [10] - 9:7, 29:6, 29:12, 33:25, COFFEY [10] - 47:6, 47:8, authorities [4] - 16:8, 25:17 9:12, 11:16, 15:12, 34:2, 47:6, 55:21, 47:10, 47:23, 48:18, 16:22, 29:14, 30:15 bombing [1] - 32:24 19:26, 25:17, 27:10, 55:28, 57:17, 60:26, 48:25, 52:5, 53:2, available [3] - 28:6, 41:1, book [1] - 4:11 64:23, 66:23, 70:24 62:2, 62:25, 64:8, 53:15, 54:17 41:11 books [1] - 3:23 Buchanan's [1] - 19:14 64:14, 65:19, 66:16, collated [1] - 14:1 average [2] - 52:15, 52:17 border [57] - 3:10, 3:12, bucket [1] - 3:29 69:16, 70:20, 76:1 colleague [10] - 18:11, avoid [1] - 72:21 3:13, 4:4, 4:15, 5:6, 5:9, build [2] - 11:10, 11:11 CHAIRMAN [20] - 1:9, 20:8, 20:21, 23:3, avoided [3] - 23:16, 7:3, 7:14, 7:20, 7:21, build-up [2] - 11:10, 1:17, 1:22, 26:27, 23:12, 23:24, 23:29, 33:21, 52:20 7:29, 8:1, 8:2, 8:29, 11:11 34:27, 47:4, 48:20, 32:18, 33:12, 33:20 54:21, 54:26, 60:14, aware [19] - 9:26, 11:15, 15:22, 22:9, 26:21, building [4] - 11:12, colleague's [1] - 22:17 13:18, 22:20, 22:25, 30:17, 45:15, 47:25, 23:30, 31:23, 36:26 60:24, 60:30, 62:6, colleagues [8] - 9:24, 29:11, 29:24, 30:17, 47:30, 48:5, 48:6, 48:8, burst [1] - 8:24 62:28, 64:11, 64:17, 17:27, 20:29, 29:8, 31:6, 32:21, 32:24, 49:10, 49:22, 49:26, business [3] - 4:26, 6:26, 65:22, 66:4, 76:10, 51:1, 58:24, 59:21, 32:29, 32:30, 33:14, 51:8, 54:5, 55:13, 13:19 76:15 70:29 33:15, 33:17, 40:17, 55:22, 55:29, 56:4, buy [1] - 6:20 Chairperson [1] - 60:22 collecting [1] - 17:27 53:15, 71:2 56:6, 56:13, 56:21, BY [5] - 2:1, 27:1, 34:29, change [1] - 2:30 collection [1] - 2:23 56:24, 56:27, 56:28, 47:8, 54:28 changed [2] - 5:25, 17:19 COLLINS [7] - 71:16, B 57:7, 57:29, 58:4, byways [1] - 61:5 chap [1] - 31:8 72:17, 73:3, 73:24, 58:11, 58:14, 58:20, charge [6] - 6:23, 9:13, 74:8, 74:16, 75:12 back-up [3] - 6:27, 9:4, 58:25, 58:28, 58:30, C 31:16, 31:18, 32:2, Collins [6] - 53:10, 53:13, 56:30 59:5, 59:15, 67:6, 67:7, 54:15 53:22, 66:29, 69:29, backwards [1] - 7:23 69:20, 69:23, 72:30, C&E [1] - 19:2 charged [3] - 5:20, 31:28, 70:20 camouflaged [1] - 3:25 bald [1] - 13:4 75:27 32:2 colluded [1] - 27:9 cancelled [1] - 11:8 Ballybinaby [2] - 8:17, boss [5] - 15:18, 24:22, charges [1] - 31:26 collusion [1] - 22:26 cannot [3] - 61:21, 62:11, 8:18 33:11, 33:15, 33:17 chat [1] - 20:7 Colonel [1] - 11:21 71:14 barred [2] - 68:23, 69:8 bosses [1] - 2:20 check [2] - 58:12, 59:25 coloured [1] - 13:23 canteen [1] - 32:28 Barry [12] - 36:24, 37:3, bother [1] - 75:13 checked [8] - 38:17, Colton [2] - 47:11, 47:20 37:4, 37:15, 37:17, canvassed [1] - 15:13 boundary [4] - 48:2, 42:19, 42:20, 45:16, coming [7] - 4:23, 5:28, 37:30, 38:7, 38:24, 48:29, 51:9 car [9] - 4:29, 5:30, 6:17, 51:26, 59:6, 64:23, 8:19, 14:25, 52:6, 56:5, 38:27, 39:3, 41:27, Branch [11] - 7:11, 7:12, 6:19, 6:24, 8:3, 8:14, 73:22 60:16 44:19 19:29 10:24, 18:16, 20:4, checking [2] - 41:7, 75:8 command [1] - 12:2 based [2] - 27:30, 61:21 career [3] - 2:5, 8:28, 53:9 20:19, 33:23, 46:5, checks [2] - 58:10, 59:9 Commander [1] - 19:4 basis [3] - 7:16, 48:14 59:13, 71:26, 71:27 careful [3] - 39:10, 46:20, Chief [32] - 11:16, 12:1, commence [1] - 1:4 bearing [1] - 4:21 break [1] - 39:24 71:17 14:17, 15:11, 19:3, commenced [1] - 69:24 beast [3] - 3:9, 5:19, Breen [59] - 9:6, 9:8, 9:13, carried [3] - 10:23, 58:6, 19:18, 27:10, 27:15, comment [7] - 33:4, 33:6, 73:4 52:22 9:17, 9:23, 11:17, 30:11, 34:5, 34:21, 44:23, 44:24, 44:27, became [3] - 7:1, 9:26, 11:18, 14:24, 15:12, carry [5] - 7:27, 16:18, 55:2, 55:3, 55:5, 55:11, 44:29, 53:20 17:18 19:5, 19:10, 19:11, 54:4, 55:8, 59:9 67:20, 67:28, 68:15, comments [1] - 46:23 become [1] - 4:3 19:19, 25:17, 26:5, carrying [2] - 16:4, 16:24 70:5, 70:16, 70:23, COMMISSIONER [1] - BEEN [1] - 2:1 26:10, 27:11, 27:15, cars [4] - 6:16, 6:20, 48:1, 70:27, 71:9, 71:19, 75:25 beginning [1] - 70:16 27:25, 28:5, 28:24, 48:6 72:4, 73:16, 73:28, Commissioner [13] - 29:3, 29:5, 29:6, 29:9, [6] 74:8, 74:25, 75:7, 75:18 behalf [5] - 28:4, 28:8, case - 3:11, 51:25, 67:17, 68:8, 68:16, 30:20, 30:24, 30:28, CHIEF [4] - 71:22, 72:24, 55:1, 59:6, 66:8 51:29, 52:25, 74:22, 69:4, 69:30, 70:17, 33:30, 34:6, 34:21, behind [1] - 14:9 75:7 74:1, 74:28 71:3, 72:19, 73:22, 35:14, 35:17, 35:27, Belfast [14] - 1:5, 2:12, cases [2] - 5:8, 52:6 Christmas [1] - 23:11 73:28, 74:16, 74:18,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 3
75:19 70:17, 70:27, 71:9, 42:11, 42:15, 44:20, 17:23 36:28, 39:9, 42:8, common [2] - 50:8, 51:20 71:19, 72:4, 73:16, 45:13, 45:25, 45:30, cut [1] - 60:19 45:22, 46:8, 46:27, commonly [1] - 8:18 73:29, 74:8, 74:25, 46:8, 46:23, 46:25, 62:20, 65:3, 65:7 communicate [1] - 67:9 75:18 46:27, 61:26, 61:30, D detectives [1] - 32:8 communication [1] - Constable's [1] - 14:17 62:21, 63:19, 63:21, determination [1] - 71:30 daily [1] - 7:16 40:25 Constabulary [1] - 68:29 65:7, 66:14 devoted [2] - 13:23, 50:4 danger [1] - 15:23 compensation [3] - 3:1, constantly [1] - 48:30 Corrigan' [1] - 42:18 diaries [4] - 74:30, 75:2, 17:21, 17:22 contact [22] - 9:12, 23:16, Corrigan's [5] - 24:24, dangerous [3] - 8:5, 8:7, 75:3, 75:5 15:21 complacency [1] - 72:18 23:30, 28:6, 31:24, 24:25, 41:26, 41:29, Diarmuid [1] - 27:5 date [14] - 15:3, 18:19, complete [1] - 71:23 33:21, 37:25, 40:25, 62:3 diary [35] - 9:14, 10:26, 21:28, 22:15, 23:18, completely [2] - 13:2, 40:29, 41:3, 41:6, 41:7, Corry [3] - 23:2, 32:25, 18:12, 18:15, 19:14, 60:2 41:8, 44:15, 46:21, 45:19 27:26, 28:6, 30:8, 30:9, 20:4, 21:24, 22:17, 33:26, 38:16, 40:10, complicated [1] - 52:10 48:11, 48:13, 48:26, cost [1] - 4:28 22:23, 23:18, 23:19, 42:20, 42:30 computer [1] - 14:4 64:25, 65:1 counterparts [2] - 49:25, 23:22, 23:27, 24:10, dated [1] - 24:11 concentration [1] - 42:8 contacted [5] - 60:11, 58:21 24:25, 24:26, 25:20, dates [1] - 30:9 concern [3] - 14:20, 15:9, 63:16, 64:13, 64:19, countries [1] - 71:12 27:14, 33:30, 34:5, day-to-day [1] - 52:14 76:5 64:24 country [1] - 18:25 36:21, 38:14, 38:17, days [4] - 19:23, 26:3, concerned [12] - 21:8, contacts [2] - 75:5, 75:9 County [1] - 19:22 38:30, 40:10, 42:19, 44:2, 64:29 25:15, 30:16, 31:8, contained [1] - 64:28 course [11] - 6:29, 8:10, 42:21, 42:29, 43:13, 32:22, 35:26, 37:12, content [2] - 13:6, 65:17 9:9, 17:20, 19:5, 20:12, dead [1] - 73:20 43:15, 43:16, 43:18, 37:14, 47:1, 55:6, context [7] - 13:17, 24:2, 25:10, 53:2, 53:9, 63:7, deal [5] - 29:23, 31:20, 43:23, 63:26, 75:8 66:24, 74:1 25:5, 46:26, 55:21, 66:30 52:12, 55:1, 73:26 die [1] - 37:30 dealing [8] - 17:14, 18:24, concerning [1] - 53:19 65:5, 66:28 court [3] - 12:5, 51:30, different [8] - 5:23, 6:19, 19:22, 31:9, 31:10, concerns [3] - 16:1, continued [1] - 21:19 52:7 18:24, 22:8, 50:13, 18:13, 20:15 contrary [1] - 53:27 cover [3] - 2:25, 3:29, 68:13, 69:6 50:14, 56:16, 71:25 dealings [1] - 55:2 concerted [1] - 13:20 control [1] - 4:10 7:19 difficult [3] - 18:3, 18:10, dealt [5] - 31:30, 50:30, concludes [2] - 60:15, convenient [1] - 66:6 covered [2] - 2:22, 26:20 44:30 53:25, 69:8, 72:3 76:12 Convention [1] - 59:7 cow [1] - 5:21 dilemma [1] - 64:20 Dear.. [1] - 12:15 conduct [1] - 19:17 conversation [13] - CROSS [4] - 27:1, 34:29, dimension [1] - 72:25 death [1] - 44:2 conducting [1] - 13:18 25:14, 26:10, 36:13, 47:8, 54:28 dinner [5] - 11:17, 11:21, deaths [4] - 11:9, 11:10, Conference [2] - 66:18, 36:17, 36:29, 37:13, cross [6] - 8:1, 56:21, 13:11, 14:21, 14:24 69:19 38:11, 41:2, 41:13, 67:6, 68:26, 69:20, 25:16, 26:3 direct [2] - 50:26, 70:12 deceased [3] - 3:22, 23:3, conference [1] - 67:11 42:22, 43:21, 47:1, 76:2 69:23 directed [1] - 13:30 68:4 confessed [1] - 53:10 conversed [1] - 34:5 cross-border [4] - 56:21, direction [1] - 30:11 December [5] - 24:11, confessions [1] - 53:17 Conversed [1] - 34:5 67:6, 69:20, 69:23 directive [2] - 18:17, 32:4, 36:19, 39:27, confine [1] - 50:15 convey [1] - 70:27 cross-examined [1] - 18:27 44:20 confined [1] - 4:5 cooperation [10] - 10:23, 68:26 directly [3] - 14:1, 29:19, decided [1] - 4:30 confirm [3] - 13:6, 31:12, 14:14, 69:21, 69:24, CROSS-EXAMINED [4] - 30:8 declare [1] - 6:12 31:15 71:11, 72:1, 73:25, 27:1, 34:29, 47:8, 54:28 Director [1] - 68:17 deeply [3] - 61:9, 62:19, confirmation [1] - 36:20 74:1, 74:10, 74:14 crossed [1] - 3:10 discuss [5] - 9:24, 12:2, 70:29 confirmed [1] - 67:29 coordination [1] - 57:14 crossing [6] - 7:3, 7:29, 20:18, 29:7, 30:26 definitely [2] - 53:16, conflict [1] - 56:6 copied [1] - 14:17 15:5, 49:18, 49:26, 54:6 discussed [8] - 34:16, 54:2 connection [2] - 34:13, copies [2] - 21:1, 21:4 crossings [1] - 58:15 34:17, 35:30, 39:7, delay [1] - 73:6 48:16 copy [1] - 12:5 Crossmaglen [1] - 73:4 63:27, 65:16, 65:27, deliberate [1] - 71:12 66:22 connections [1] - 7:5 correct [52] - 2:5, 2:6, 2:9, Crowley [1] - 69:30 delicate [1] - 68:23 discussing [3] - 20:21, Connolly [25] - 23:20, 2:12, 2:17, 2:28, 2:29, crucially [1] - 63:21 Department [8] - 4:12, 36:24, 37:3, 37:4, 3:3, 3:4, 5:4, 5:7, 6:28, Crucible [1] - 14:5 35:24, 36:15 6:13, 66:20, 67:17, 37:15, 37:17, 37:27, 8:11, 9:19, 10:11, Culligan [2] - 71:3, 71:20 discussion [11] - 25:29, 68:18, 69:15, 69:29, 37:30, 38:7, 38:9, 10:13, 10:15, 10:19, cumulative [1] - 13:27 26:7, 26:9, 43:9, 44:3, 70:1 38:18, 38:19, 38:21, 10:20, 10:22, 10:25, Cushley [1] - 19:6 45:30, 66:19, 66:24, depended [2] - 59:3, 38:24, 38:27, 39:1, 10:29, 11:6, 11:7, Customs [54] - 2:5, 2:11, 69:20, 76:1, 76:7 68:11 39:3, 39:8, 41:27, 11:14, 17:26, 20:6, 3:3, 3:10, 5:28, 6:10, discussions [4] - 9:11, 42:21, 43:7, 44:19, 21:23, 22:15, 22:30, 6:11, 6:12, 7:6, 7:9, depth [1] - 14:13 24:21, 34:16, 68:20 44:24, 45:26, 46:29 25:25, 27:16, 27:17, 7:22, 15:28, 16:6, deputies [1] - 68:15 dispensation [1] - 8:2 Deputies [1] - 74:18 conscious [1] - 55:14 36:2, 36:6, 36:22, 16:13, 16:16, 34:7, dispensations [1] - 7:29 Deputy [2] - 70:6, 71:3 consensus [1] - 29:16 36:23, 42:18, 42:25, 47:24, 47:26, 47:29, disposal [1] - 74:3 42:27, 42:28, 45:27, description [2] - 55:28, considerable [4] - 14:13, 48:4, 48:11, 48:26, disregarding [1] - 3:20 17:1, 57:5, 57:13 46:4, 47:14, 49:6, 50:6, 49:29, 50:5, 50:9, 67:1 dissatisfaction [1] - 50:7, 50:12, 50:18, designed [1] - 14:9 considerations [1] - 50:20, 50:22, 51:5, 14:26 59:16 57:16, 65:23, 68:5 51:8, 51:17, 51:26, detail [4] - 13:16, 41:24, disseminated [1] - 14:5 Corrigan [40] - 22:30, 42:7, 66:21 considered [2] - 15:29, 51:29, 52:5, 52:28, distinction [2] - 2:10, 16:12 23:4, 23:7, 23:13, 53:3, 53:14, 53:22, detailed [2] - 50:10, 53:28 47:12 23:26, 32:16, 32:20, details [3] - 6:25, 31:17, consist [1] - 12:7 53:28, 54:10, 55:9, disturbed [1] - 14:11 33:21, 35:4, 36:21, 64:25 CONSTABLE [4] - 71:22, 55:17, 55:23, 56:3, divert [1] - 17:2 36:25, 36:28, 37:25, 72:24, 74:1, 74:28 56:24, 56:29, 57:8, detected [1] - 48:7 division [1] - 9:13 37:26, 37:27, 38:4, Detective [16] - 22:30, Constable [17] - 12:1, 58:20, 58:21, 58:28, Division [1] - 12:15 38:5, 38:8, 39:9, 41:17, 19:3, 30:12, 67:20, 58:30, 60:7, 65:1 23:4, 23:25, 24:20, Divisional [1] - 19:4 41:20, 42:6, 42:9, 67:28, 68:16, 70:5, Customs' [2] - 15:1, 25:12, 32:19, 36:25, doctor [1] - 8:21
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 4 document [1] - 12:4 elsewhere [2] - 18:23, exception [1] - 15:24 44:17 G Document [1] - 12:5 70:17 exchange [1] - 7:18 final [1] - 68:18 documentation [3] - emanate [1] - 13:4 exchanges [1] - 70:14 finalise [1] - 46:22 G30 [2] - 13:2, 14:1 59:5, 74:24, 74:29 embarking [1] - 13:16 exchanging [1] - 7:23 finally [3] - 14:15, 59:28, gain [2] - 3:2, 16:28 documented [1] - 13:22 emergency [1] - 73:19 Excise [3] - 2:11, 55:9, 61:26 Garda [30] - 9:24, 13:21, documents [2] - 21:1, empty [2] - 23:5, 57:20 65:1 financial [1] - 16:28 18:29, 19:3, 23:6, 21:12 encourage [3] - 62:12, excuse [1] - 22:21 findings [1] - 61:21 23:20, 23:25, 23:28, done [13] - 11:24, 11:27, 62:17, 75:23 executive [1] - 14:10 finished [1] - 69:26 24:21, 27:5, 27:9, 29:7, 13:15, 20:27, 20:28, encouraging [1] - 63:5 exhaustive [1] - 70:14 finishes [1] - 61:30 32:5, 32:11, 32:13, 20:29, 29:14, 59:21, end [6] - 15:6, 15:8, existed [1] - 68:29 firm [1] - 13:8 33:2, 33:9, 51:3, 56:30, 57:14, 65:7, 65:9, 65:24, 66:8, 66:16, 37:11, 43:4, 49:23, existence [1] - 40:17 first [16] - 3:16, 15:2, 67:17, 68:8, 68:16, 74:6, 74:20 63:22 expertise [1] - 14:10 26:11, 29:17, 30:20, 69:30, 72:3, 73:28, 74:2 doubt [4] - 38:29, 58:25, endeavours [1] - 62:14 explain [1] - 63:13 32:16, 44:5, 44:25, Gardaí [4] - 22:28, 50:22, 63:7, 71:18 ended [1] - 2:26 explained [3] - 41:15, 47:12, 61:8, 67:2, 73:7, 73:12 Down [1] - 19:22 engaged [5] - 49:9, 64:26, 65:5 69:13, 69:25, 70:18, gathering [1] - 23:11 down [25] - 4:28, 6:22, 49:16, 50:12, 51:19, explaining [1] - 13:24 72:4, 72:13 general [17] - 12:2, 25:29, 8:13, 8:15, 9:5, 9:23, 70:17 export [1] - 3:11 firstly [2] - 55:2, 68:9 29:16, 31:14, 31:15, 13:21, 15:27, 20:21, England [3] - 2:19, 2:20, exportation [1] - 51:9 flavour [1] - 72:29 34:15, 34:16, 35:30, 26:20, 29:7, 29:10, 6:21 exported [1] - 52:23 focus [1] - 73:14 36:10, 36:17, 37:1, 29:27, 30:1, 30:21, ensure [4] - 9:3, 71:1, exports [4] - 3:2, 21:9, focused [1] - 17:24 40:9, 40:18, 41:22, 30:26, 39:13, 43:14, 74:20, 75:22 51:27, 52:23 follow [1] - 22:4 46:2, 46:15, 75:19 49:10, 54:14, 58:13, entered [1] - 14:4 exposure [1] - 13:27 follow-up [1] - 22:4 58:24, 59:17, 63:29 General [3] - 67:16, entering [1] - 18:1 expressed [2] - 14:26, followed [1] - 19:28 68:17, 69:29 dozen [1] - 76:3 entirely [1] - 66:13 20:15 following [4] - 25:16, [1] generally [1] - 57:6 drawing - 44:25 entitled [4] - 63:1, 63:6, extent [1] - 18:1 35:13, 43:16, 70:12 generated [1] - 61:28 drawn [2] - 56:20, 65:24 63:7, 69:20 extract [2] - 24:11, 24:19 FOLLOWS [6] - 1:2, 2:2, gentleman [9] - 21:3, drive [3] - 4:20, 5:14, 8:3 entries [1] - 10:27 extracts [1] - 18:12 27:2, 34:30, 47:8, 54:28 25:14, 32:22, 36:26, Dromad [1] - 73:12 entry [4] - 9:14, 27:14, follows [2] - 13:15, 50:8 47:1, 65:1, 65:5, 65:14, dropped [2] - 6:24, 52:25 33:30, 36:21 food [1] - 56:1 F 65:15 drove [1] - 8:19 envisaged [1] - 26:18 foods [1] - 56:2 Gerry [1] - 66:28 Dublin [7] - 7:10, 20:21, equipment [1] - 16:15 FA [1] - 59:26 Force [1] - 68:7 getaway [1] - 73:9 20:24, 59:13, 59:17, especially [2] - 56:7, 75:6 face [2] - 24:13, 71:13 forces [3] - 72:12, 73:25, given [15] - 17:29, 19:7, 60:20, 67:26 establish [3] - 13:17, facially [1] - 1:13 74:2 19:11, 19:18, 26:12, due [3] - 6:12, 18:29, 63:7 61:15, 73:8 facility [1] - 74:3 Foreign [4] - 66:21, 30:11, 38:8, 44:8, Dundalk [16] - 19:27, established [1] - 67:8 fact [15] - 3:25, 6:12, 67:18, 69:27, 70:1 60:27, 61:4, 61:11, 26:11, 28:24, 30:21, establishment [1] - 67:10 9:14, 13:22, 16:20, form [4] - 15:9, 38:5, 61:19, 61:28, 65:10, 30:26, 43:12, 43:17, et [6] - 2:25, 15:4, 21:9, 16:21, 23:15, 38:30, 38:6, 70:12 75:3 43:26, 43:30, 44:10, 45:17, 48:27, 59:27 62:12, 63:18, 64:21, formally [1] - 73:27 Glasgow [8] - 2:22, 10:5, 44:22, 45:22, 46:5, evasion [1] - 5:2 65:9, 73:27, 75:13, formed [1] - 2:12 21:16, 60:4, 60:8, 63:24, 68:30, 73:12 event [4] - 15:26, 52:6, 75:27 fortnight [1] - 66:23 60:10, 60:11 Durack [1] - 68:26 74:4, 74:23 factor [1] - 73:14 forward [2] - 20:19, 30:23 Glassdrumman [1] - 13:1 duration [1] - 1:15 events [1] - 26:8 facts [6] - 13:4, 15:17, forwarded [1] - 48:9 GOC's [1] - 13:26 during [5] - 8:28, 13:2, eventually [2] - 5:15, 16:9, 20:9, 33:14, 65:25 forwarding [1] - 19:8 fair [2] - 49:28, 75:7 gossip [1] - 25:8 43:10, 43:21, 55:23 26:18 forwards [1] - 7:23 [2] fairly [2] - 57:26, 59:20 governmental [1] - 67:23 duties - 8:10, 53:3 evidence [47] - 1:5, 1:6, four [1] - 8:14 [1] fairness [1] - 45:24 Governmental [2] - Duty - 19:15 11:19, 13:8, 14:22, frame [3] - 61:12, 62:20, 66:18, 69:19 duty [1] - 5:2 14:25, 18:14, 19:7, faith [1] - 72:25 63:1 grain [7] - 6:8, 10:8, dwelling [1] - 5:10 26:12, 26:16, 27:8, families [1] - 70:28 frank [1] - 68:21 [3] 10:12, 21:9, 31:13, 27:12, 39:20, 39:27, family - 10:21, 63:2, freedom [1] - 16:18 63:3 31:14, 56:17 E 41:10, 41:12, 44:8, freely [8] - 7:22, 35:16, grains [1] - 51:9 50:28, 51:29, 52:6, far [14] - 17:1, 30:3, 35:17, 35:20, 35:29, Eamon [2] - 53:9, 53:13 granted [1] - 69:16 60:15, 60:17, 60:27, 35:26, 36:7, 37:12, 36:4, 36:5, 36:12 ear [6] - 3:14, 3:15, 3:17, 40:22, 46:27, 49:3, grateful [3] - 60:18, 71:8, 61:2, 61:3, 61:4, 61:7, frequent [1] - 67:27 3:27, 3:28, 4:1 49:16, 57:2, 57:8, 63:9, 74:8 61:10, 61:11, 61:18, friend [1] - 23:24 eardrum [1] - 8:24 64:23, 74:1 greater [2] - 51:18, 75:23 61:19, 61:29, 63:5, Friend [1] - 62:10 early [3] - 23:8, 45:13, farm [1] - 5:9 ground [2] - 16:27, 49:30 63:8, 63:11, 63:15, front [2] - 35:5, 35:25 46:24 farm" [1] - 12:17 grounds [1] - 63:10 63:26, 64:1, 64:4, 64:5, frustrated [3] - 57:18, East [1] - 19:8 group [1] - 22:5 64:27, 65:10, 65:16, farmer's [1] - 4:11 57:29, 57:30 Edward [1] - 23:1 65:26, 66:13, 66:29 farmers [2] - 3:22, 17:29 guards [1] - 30:26 frustration [1] - 57:22 effect [2] - 5:25, 26:13 examine [1] - 1:7 farms [2] - 5:8, 56:28 fuel [5] - 4:25, 4:26, 4:27, effective [1] - 13:28 examined [3] - 6:12, 67:2, feasible [2] - 52:21 4:29, 14:12 H effects [1] - 73:26 68:26 February [1] - 13:3 full [5] - 33:14, 44:17, hand [2] - 51:22, 59:20 effort [1] - 75:25 EXAMINED [5] - 2:1, fell [1] - 30:30 68:18, 71:23, 71:24 handed [2] - 21:13, 21:14 efforts [1] - 13:21 27:1, 34:29, 47:8, 54:28 felt [3] - 14:27, 16:7, fully [2] - 59:26, 74:19 handle [1] - 7:18 eight [1] - 6:15 example [4] - 7:29, 57:19, 19:27 functions [1] - 51:7 handled [2] - 14:27, 30:7 either [2] - 3:20, 33:1 59:22, 73:24 few [2] - 23:6, 35:4 hands [1] - 3:23 element [2] - 55:21, 72:1 except [3] - 13:6, 23:9, file [2] - 18:28, 18:29 harm [1] - 56:3 elicit [1] - 28:10 32:20 filled [3] - 4:29, 9:22,
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 5
Harry [28] - 9:6, 9:17, Ian [1] - 70:5 38:7, 38:19, 39:12, 60:2, 70:25, 72:2, King [1] - 11:20 14:24, 19:5, 19:10, idea [4] - 15:6, 55:20, 40:20, 44:17, 45:17, 72:25, 75:4, 75:9 king [1] - 70:4 19:11, 25:17, 25:26, 75:4, 75:8 49:29, 50:6, 50:10, involvement [1] - 50:26 KING [5] - 71:8, 71:29, 26:5, 26:10, 30:20, identified [1] - 48:4 53:18, 53:23, 57:19 involving [3] - 14:13, 72:10, 72:28, 74:13 35:14, 35:15, 35:27, identifying [1] - 2:27 informed [5] - 13:7, 33:27, 50:21 knock [2] - 10:29, 11:1 35:29, 36:3, 36:9, identity [1] - 4:14 33:17, 39:1, 61:16, IRA [15] - 18:2, 18:8, 27:9, knowledge [13] - 18:6, 43:11, 43:17, 43:25, illegal [1] - 21:9 61:26 33:3, 33:10, 37:28, 19:20, 23:7, 30:23, 43:29, 43:30, 44:4, illegally [2] - 5:25, 59:24 inhibited [1] - 17:6 53:10, 53:18, 53:23, 32:1, 33:13, 45:13, 44:9, 44:22, 55:6, 63:23 illicit [1] - 13:18 injured [2] - 8:9, 32:28 70:26, 71:30, 72:20, 45:14, 50:10, 51:18, harsh [1] - 62:29 immediate [3] - 14:10, injuries [2] - 8:23, 8:24 73:5, 74:24, 74:30 53:29, 54:3, 54:9 HAVING [1] - 2:1 33:11, 72:28 inquired [1] - 64:13 Ireland [72] - 2:5, 2:14, known [8] - 1:18, 8:18, HAYES [5] - 1:4, 1:20, immediately [4] - 26:2, inquiries [4] - 46:17, 2:16, 2:18, 3:8, 3:14, 23:2, 30:4, 30:23, 49:5, 65:30, 66:6, 76:12 69:2, 69:25, 72:4 49:24, 51:15, 59:3 3:15, 3:19, 3:28, 4:3, 57:4, 57:13 headed [1] - 69:18 impact [3] - 3:2, 3:5, inquiry [4] - 21:5, 21:6, 4:18, 4:20, 4:22, 4:24, headlines [1] - 72:15 38:14 21:15, 51:14 4:27, 5:1, 5:10, 5:11, L headquarters [1] - 2:21 implications [1] - 71:24 Inquiry [2] - 61:19, 61:20 5:12, 5:13, 5:15, 5:27, laden [2] - 4:21, 5:13 health [1] - 70:10 imply [1] - 53:28 insert [1] - 3:19 5:29, 6:9, 6:10, 6:20, land [5] - 11:4, 48:2, hear [9] - 11:25, 24:2, implying [1] - 47:16 inserted [1] - 4:2 6:21, 7:9, 10:5, 10:9, 48:28, 48:29, 51:9 27:6, 28:13, 29:17, import [1] - 3:11 insofar [1] - 76:1 17:15, 17:16, 17:28, 17:30, 20:30, 47:13, large [1] - 18:7 35:2, 39:25, 45:29, important [4] - 13:16, Inspector [3] - 19:26, last [8] - 35:9, 35:12, 48:21 53:23, 72:7, 74:29 19:27, 24:20 47:27, 47:28, 47:30, 49:25, 51:2, 51:3, 51:6, 41:30, 42:13, 42:18, heard [18] - 11:19, 11:26, importation [1] - 51:9 instance [2] - 16:20, 67:2 52:24, 53:19, 56:19, 43:13, 61:27, 75:3 19:13, 19:25, 23:15, importations [1] - 6:9 intelligence [5] - 14:2, 56:22, 56:27, 56:29, late [6] - 9:8, 26:5, 30:24, 24:1, 24:4, 24:5, 29:13, imported [1] - 59:24 14:6, 15:4, 50:3, 50:6 58:23, 59:6, 59:7, 59:9, 36:8, 55:5, 69:28 32:15, 32:17, 36:30, imports [1] - 51:27 intend [1] - 74:16 37:21, 45:18, 45:25, 59:12, 59:23, 61:5, Laverty [5] - 1:6, 30:10, imports/exports [1] - intention [1] - 74:19 61:24, 64:26, 66:10, 60:19, 67:2, 69:5 46:23, 46:25, 53:16 59:5 Inter [2] - 66:18, 69:19 hearing [3] - 23:10, 67:13, 67:20, 68:7, LAVERTY [22] - 1:11, 2:1, impression [1] - 55:3 inter [1] - 67:23 32:20, 32:21 68:15, 70:7, 75:6 2:4, 12:13, 24:17, improving [1] - 71:4 Inter-Governmental [2] - hearsay [2] - 61:18, 61:22 Irish [9] - 56:24, 57:8, 26:23, 28:15, 28:22, in-line [3] - 38:23, 39:4, 66:18, 69:19 58:21, 58:28, 58:30, 38:27, 40:2, 41:19, held [3] - 59:11, 68:28, 40:24 inter-governmental [1] - 69:1 66:18, 67:10, 69:18, 45:4, 45:8, 46:11, inaccurate [1] - 14:21 67:23 help [1] - 34:2 69:27 47:18, 48:16, 48:23, incident [6] - 12:27, 63:3, interact [2] - 52:27, 53:3 issue [5] - 63:21, 69:6, 52:3, 52:30, 53:13, helpful [3] - 18:12, 55:7, 70:26, 70:30, 71:23, interaction [1] - 67:7 69:10, 76:6, 76:8 55:25, 60:22 60:17 73:18 intercepted [1] - 49:12 Law [1] - 12:14 helping [1] - 33:9 issues [4] - 53:24, 53:25, incidentally [1] - 9:7 interception [1] - 14:12 lawyers [3] - 65:13, herd [2] - 3:23, 4:11 64:2, 68:23 incidents [2] - 57:22, interest [5] - 19:28, item [1] - 4:25 65:14, 66:11 Hermon [3] - 68:4, 68:7, 57:28 55:16, 56:21, 66:10 70:6 itself [3] - 5:11, 34:8, 51:1 lead [1] - 53:27 incision [1] - 3:30 interfering [1] - 14:28 leading [4] - 9:29, 15:20, hierarchy [1] - 2:27 intermediary [1] - 66:11 inclination [1] - 72:13 16:16, 21:15 high [3] - 2:26, 50:18, J inclined [1] - 57:30 internal [1] - 73:17 leaking [3] - 23:4, 23:14, 56:5 intervening [1] - 39:19 include [1] - 22:28 Jack [1] - 68:6 37:7 higher [3] - 24:14, 56:13, included [1] - 23:25 interview [1] - 1:15 job [4] - 7:2, 16:18, 17:26, 56:26 leaks [1] - 37:9 including [1] - 13:20 investigate [1] - 50:2 56:10 learn [3] - 29:9, 29:28, highest [2] - 69:3, 74:4 investigated [1] - 60:4 incorporated [1] - 56:27 John [3] - 31:4, 68:4, 70:6 30:13 highways [1] - 61:5 [1] investigating [3] - 22:26, increased - 5:26 joined [2] - 70:19, 70:20 learned [4] - 30:18, hit [1] - 32:28 65:6, 66:26 indeed [2] - 61:3, 72:8 joint [2] - 50:27, 57:12 30:20, 30:25, 33:22 HMG [1] - 12:5 Investigation [4] - 7:11, independent [1] - 50:9 Jonesboro [1] - 75:18 least [2] - 8:20, 73:11 HMG36 [1] - 19:16 7:12, 10:24, 59:13 indicated [5] - 11:24, journal [1] - 19:14 leave [3] - 17:9, 19:11, hold [1] - 43:22 investigation [15] - 2:7, 12:17, 19:2, 19:5, 49:3 JUNE [2] - 1:1, 76:20 65:28 holds [2] - 68:22, 69:8 2:13, 2:24, 7:9, 9:1, indicates [1] - 9:15 jurisdiction [3] - 61:17, led [3] - 3:1, 29:21, 57:12 Home [1] - 67:14 10:7, 31:19, 47:27, indicating [1] - 19:9 61:18, 62:13 left [3] - 3:15, 4:2, 52:1 honest [2] - 37:12, 64:4 50:29, 50:30, 51:1, indication [1] - 59:23 Justice [4] - 67:17, 69:15, legal [2] - 51:26, 52:23 honestly [1] - 31:29 51:23, 54:4, 54:15, indications [1] - 58:15 69:28, 69:30 legally [2] - 6:10, 52:23 horrific [1] - 73:26 54:16 indicator [2] - 52:26, justification [1] - 72:11 legislation [1] - 14:14 hospital [1] - 8:21 investigations [3] - 58:18 legitimate [1] - 65:22 [1] host - 67:21 [2] 25:10, 48:9, 49:2 individual - 13:27, K lend [1] - 50:27 hours [4] - 13:2, 13:3, 35:19 Investigative [2] - 18:16, length [5] - 7:2, 16:29, 24:23, 64:22 19:24 keen [3] - 55:16, 63:4 individually [1] - 16:7 17:6, 57:5, 68:11 [1] House - 12:15 [2] investigative [1] - 51:11 kept [2] - 4:13, 75:22 individuals - 50:11, lengths [1] - 17:2 house [1] - 5:10 51:18 invited [1] - 33:1 killed [2] - 32:26, 72:25 Lenihan [1] - 69:28 human [1] - 70:25 industry [1] - 6:5 involve [1] - 57:14 Killeen [1] - 75:20 Leo [2] - 47:10, 47:20 hundred [4] - 3:9, 5:21, information [27] - 7:19, involved [23] - 5:5, 7:13, killers [1] - 72:30 less [6] - 10:4, 15:2, 5:22 16:11, 16:13, 16:22, killings [3] - 71:29, 73:27, 7:23, 13:30, 14:3, 40:30, 54:3, 56:15, 66:1 14:20, 22:29, 23:5, 16:27, 25:10, 29:19, 74:13 lesser [1] - 4:28 I 23:14, 24:6, 33:3, 37:7, 30:8, 33:26, 39:22, Kilnasaggart [1] - 75:27 lessons [1] - 75:22 37:9, 37:28, 38:2, 38:4, 50:21, 56:23, 56:25, kind [4] - 40:30, 71:30, I.. [1] - 53:11 letter [1] - 14:17 56:29, 57:3, 59:29, 74:10, 74:13
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 6 level [8] - 55:11, 55:29, manager [7] - 38:23, Meeting [2] - 12:1, 12:23 might [17] - 8:12, 16:24, 63:13, 64:8, 64:13, 56:11, 56:13, 56:26, 38:25, 38:28, 39:4, meeting [86] - 9:16, 9:20, 21:29, 39:24, 41:11, 64:19, 65:30, 66:6, 69:3, 69:4 39:11, 39:16, 40:24 9:21, 12:7, 15:11, 44:11, 46:2, 53:28, 71:8, 71:16, 71:29, levels [1] - 71:25 manually [1] - 14:1 15:16, 15:18, 18:17, 57:11, 58:7, 66:6, 66:8, 72:10, 72:17, 72:28, liaison [7] - 14:3, 23:10, map [1] - 14:15 18:27, 19:12, 19:15, 66:28, 73:8, 73:14, 73:3, 73:24, 74:8, 24:20, 32:5, 32:9, March [34] - 9:17, 10:28, 19:20, 20:4, 23:1, 75:1, 75:17 74:13, 74:16, 75:12, 32:14, 49:24 10:30, 11:18, 11:29, 23:11, 23:19, 24:20, military [2] - 14:4, 14:6 76:12 lightly [1] - 9:3 12:24, 12:25, 13:3, 24:29, 25:17, 25:28, Mill [2] - 14:2, 14:4 MRS [22] - 1:11, 2:1, 2:4, likely [4] - 5:26, 21:8, 14:2, 14:5, 14:7, 18:20, 26:1, 26:11, 26:14, million [1] - 6:5 12:13, 24:17, 26:23, 76:16 18:21, 18:30, 19:13, 27:14, 27:24, 27:25, millions [1] - 16:11 28:15, 28:22, 38:27, line [11] - 38:23, 38:25, 19:23, 20:3, 20:20, 28:8, 28:19, 28:25, Mills [2] - 12:5, 12:9 40:2, 41:19, 45:4, 45:8, 38:27, 39:4, 39:11, 25:18, 27:16, 29:8, 29:8, 29:13, 30:11, MILLS [1] - 12:11 46:11, 47:18, 48:16, 39:16, 40:24, 75:26 29:13, 30:20, 30:22, 30:17, 32:3, 32:5, 32:9, mind [6] - 8:8, 13:26, 48:23, 52:3, 52:30, link [6] - 1:6, 39:24, 42:25, 42:27, 43:1, 32:10, 32:12, 32:14, 38:12, 44:5, 44:17, 53:13, 55:25, 60:22 60:19, 75:14, 75:21, 43:2, 43:3, 43:4, 43:5, 32:15, 32:18, 33:8, 46:28 MS [1] - 54:19 75:28 43:28 33:12, 33:20, 33:30, Minister [5] - 67:16, multi [1] - 6:5 lists [1] - 75:5 Mark [1] - 54:30 34:2, 34:9, 34:20, 35:8, 67:18, 69:27, 69:28, multi-million [1] - 6:5 live [1] - 58:2 marked [1] - 69:14 36:19, 36:25, 38:10, 70:5 murder [6] - 9:18, 20:12, load [2] - 3:12, 6:14 Mary [1] - 24:13 39:1, 39:3, 39:7, 40:23, Ministerial [1] - 69:4 20:13, 64:22, 64:29, loads [1] - 4:30 Maryfield [2] - 70:2, 70:8 41:23, 42:24, 43:1, Ministers [2] - 68:10, 70:23 local [22] - 16:8, 32:8, material [1] - 55:23 43:10, 43:12, 43:17, 68:17 murders [7] - 18:17, 47:29, 48:11, 48:26, matter [14] - 15:19, 19:3, 43:20, 43:26, 43:28, minor [2] - 8:24, 48:30 27:10, 65:4, 65:18, 43:30, 44:10, 44:20, 49:29, 50:5, 50:9, 19:12, 20:17, 22:24, minute [1] - 28:15 66:23, 66:25, 76:2 44:22, 63:24, 66:17, 50:20, 51:5, 51:8, 33:4, 50:8, 51:20, minutes [5] - 12:7, 18:26, Murphy [20] - 8:16, 11:13, 51:17, 51:25, 51:29, 59:20, 62:4, 62:10, 68:10, 69:7, 69:13, 30:10, 66:2, 73:6 11:22, 12:20, 13:18, 69:18, 70:16, 70:18, 52:5, 52:28, 53:3, 69:2, 69:9, 71:18 missed [2] - 39:23, 70:18 14:15, 18:28, 19:15, 70:19, 71:3, 74:17, 53:14, 53:21, 53:28, matters [14] - 18:24, mixture [1] - 3:29 20:22, 21:7, 29:18, 75:13, 75:16, 76:2, 76:8 54:9, 58:20 19:22, 29:7, 29:23, mobile [2] - 48:1, 48:5 29:30, 49:5, 49:8, meetings [23] - 23:9, 49:16, 49:20, 50:16, London [2] - 2:21, 67:25 35:25, 56:9, 65:11, modus [1] - 13:24 58:27, 58:29, 59:11, 54:1, 54:8 look [8] - 14:23, 25:20, 66:19, 67:6, 68:14, mole [3] - 68:29, 72:3, 59:12, 67:1, 67:15, 31:19, 49:1, 58:14, 71:5, 72:13, 74:23, 76:4 76:7 Murphy's [11] - 8:17, 67:23, 67:25, 67:27, 8:18, 11:4, 12:17, 73:5, 73:9, 75:3 maximum [1] - 74:21 moment [2] - 18:14, 68:9, 68:11, 68:13, looked [5] - 4:15, 12:27, MCA [1] - 55:19 50:16 13:17, 13:28, 13:30, 68:14, 68:23, 69:5, 14:10, 30:12, 49:11, 16:19, 56:8, 71:19 McAnulty [5] - 22:11, monetary [3] - 3:1, 3:2, 69:7, 71:16, 71:25, looking [4] - 21:18, 22:12, 31:4, 31:15, 17:20 49:22 74:9, 74:14 Murphys [1] - 26:18 21:24, 48:29, 75:25 31:28 money [5] - 5:16, 5:18, member [6] - 18:7, 27:9, lorries [3] - 11:22, 14:12, MCAs [4] - 17:17, 17:20, 6:3, 6:6, 17:18 must [6] - 14:29, 41:4, 33:2, 33:8, 46:5, 53:10 51:17, 67:5, 71:16, 15:10 52:18, 52:20 monitored [1] - 72:20 memo [3] - 18:30, 19:1, 74:10 lorry [2] - 4:21, 5:27 McBurney [34] - 40:26, months [1] - 67:24 19:8 loss [7] - 4:4, 18:9, 19:7, 40:27, 40:29, 41:3, morning [5] - 1:4, 1:11, memory [1] - 42:10 21:20, 23:5, 39:21, 41:10, 41:16, 41:19, 22:8, 27:4, 28:29 N men [15] - 8:20, 49:12, 46:14 42:1, 42:6, 42:13, 44:7, morning's [1] - 1:5 49:13, 50:5, 50:9, name [38] - 23:8, 23:10, lost [3] - 28:15, 45:4, 44:12, 44:15, 44:27, mortar [1] - 32:28 23:16, 23:27, 23:28, 61:4, 61:9, 61:14, 50:21, 51:5, 51:18, 48:16 most [8] - 5:8, 5:26, 7:15, 54:10, 64:30, 70:28, 24:1, 24:2, 24:4, 24:5, lower [1] - 56:13 61:16, 61:29, 62:7, 8:5, 8:7, 13:23, 15:3, 24:7, 24:24, 24:25, 62:9, 62:30, 63:16, 72:24, 73:20, 75:1, 21:8 27:4, 32:17, 32:20, 63:18, 63:19, 63:20, 75:17 M mostly [1] - 21:8 32:21, 37:1, 41:16, 63:27, 63:30, 64:8, men's [1] - 75:3 mould [1] - 61:10 41:19, 41:26, 41:30, magnitude [1] - 50:30 64:13, 64:19, 65:24, mention [6] - 36:21, 39:2, mounted [1] - 29:18 42:17, 45:17, 45:18, main [4] - 5:28, 18:4, 66:7, 66:11 39:19, 40:5, 41:16, 44:7 mouth [1] - 22:18 45:20, 45:26, 46:2, 75:12, 75:23 McBurney's [2] - 61:23, mentioned [27] - 12:19, move [7] - 3:18, 16:21, 46:4, 46:9, 46:12, mains [8] - 27:19, 27:20, 63:17 12:27, 25:11, 36:26, 17:3, 21:6, 24:13, 46:13, 46:25, 46:28, 28:5, 28:7, 42:24, McGuinness [6] - 26:29, 37:1, 37:25, 38:10, 56:11, 57:26 54:30, 63:17, 64:15, 43:11, 44:2, 64:21 27:4, 27:5, 28:17, 38:18, 38:20, 39:4, moved [2] - 14:11, 34:7 64:20 Mains [19] - 25:24, 25:30, 28:28, 34:24 39:15, 39:17, 39:26, movement [1] - 15:9 named [6] - 10:8, 65:2, 26:5, 26:8, 28:3, 28:11, mcGUINNESS [1] - 27:1 41:11, 41:26, 41:30, movements [2] - 58:16, 65:3, 65:7, 65:8, 65:9 29:10, 30:25, 43:8, mean [3] - 46:6, 48:18, 42:2, 42:3, 45:12, 58:9, 72:20 names [7] - 7:7, 20:9, 43:19, 43:24, 43:29, 48:25 59:28, 63:16, 63:17, 64:15, 64:21, 67:28 MR [54] - 1:4, 1:20, 12:11, 41:21, 59:30, 60:1, 44:4, 44:8, 44:21, meaning [1] - 36:2 mentioning [6] - 7:6, 24:13, 26:29, 27:1, 60:7, 65:10 44:27, 63:23, 64:30, means [3] - 35:20, 62:17, 27:4, 28:17, 28:28, nasty [1] - 69:9 65:4 71:4 30:3, 44:19, 45:26, 59:30, 64:20 34:24, 34:29, 35:2, nature [2] - 52:10, 53:25 Mains' [1] - 65:17 meant [2] - 3:7, 55:17 met [11] - 23:17, 23:23, 39:2, 40:5, 41:25, 45:6, nearly [2] - 7:15, 68:23 maize [1] - 10:12 meat [2] - 3:20, 6:9 24:20, 24:22, 24:29, 45:12, 47:2, 47:6, 47:8, necessarily [1] - 70:14 major [2] - 16:21, 50:21 media [1] - 72:28 47:10, 47:23, 48:18, necessary [5] - 15:24, man [5] - 36:30, 37:9, 26:4, 35:14, 35:27, medium [1] - 56:14 48:25, 52:5, 53:2, 37:13, 42:16, 46:18 43:7, 43:19, 44:8 16:15, 17:4, 48:10, 71:6 meet [7] - 25:1, 30:27, 53:15, 54:17, 54:23, method [1] - 14:29 necessity [1] - 7:13 manage [1] - 18:13 30:29, 58:30, 65:14, 54:28, 54:30, 55:28, need [4] - 22:24, 64:5, managed [1] - 44:18 67:12, 67:22 methods [1] - 13:19 60:12, 60:26, 62:9, 72:21, 74:13
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 7 needed [4] - 6:27, 16:2, O 18:10, 19:23, 22:8, 36:21, 37:27, 38:3, peers [1] - 67:7 48:9, 53:7 22:10, 22:12, 22:16, 38:8, 41:17, 41:19, people [40] - 3:5, 3:21, needless [1] - 66:24 O'CALLAGHAN [11] - 31:4, 31:9, 31:23, 41:25, 41:29, 42:6, 4:13, 4:27, 4:30, 5:5, needs [1] - 65:27 34:29, 35:2, 39:2, 40:5, 40:14, 44:19, 47:27, 42:11, 44:19, 45:13, 6:19, 7:6, 7:22, 8:14, negative [6] - 45:25, 41:25, 45:6, 45:12, 48:8, 53:14, 60:26, 45:25, 46:23 9:1, 10:17, 15:19, 45:28, 46:23, 61:7, 47:2, 60:26, 61:2, 63:13 63:2, 63:5, 70:30, own [9] - 15:28, 16:1, 16:12, 16:24, 17:12, 64:2, 64:6 O'Callaghan [3] - 62:29, 72:24, 73:5, 74:22, 16:15, 20:16, 24:17, 18:9, 20:17, 22:5, 22:7, netting [1] - 12:28 65:19, 76:16 74:23, 75:2, 75:15, 50:3, 53:17, 64:4, 66:8 23:12, 30:7, 31:3, never [7] - 9:12, 32:17, o'clock [1] - 76:17 75:22 owned [1] - 49:4 31:18, 36:8, 36:14, 33:26, 39:21, 45:18, O'SULLIVAN [1] - 54:19 one-off [1] - 48:8 36:16, 37:8, 37:10, 63:16, 69:11 oath [1] - 1:12 ones [1] - 2:11 P 37:20, 37:23, 37:24, new [1] - 2:7 objective [7] - 3:16, ongoing [6] - 7:8, 11:27, 41:14, 49:26, 52:19, p.m [1] - 69:24 Newry [8] - 20:24, 23:2, 15:25, 16:30, 17:2, 21:10, 34:18, 48:11, 54:15, 63:5, 64:1, 75:9 p.m. [1] - 69:26 23:23, 32:5, 32:24, 17:28, 61:14 57:4 per [8] - 3:9, 4:8, 5:19, page [4] - 24:8, 35:7, 36:20, 42:4 objectives [1] - 70:30 open [3] - 22:23, 69:15, 5:21, 5:30, 12:29, 52:21 43:5, 67:2 next [9] - 28:25, 30:27, obliged [2] - 47:23, 62:9 75:22 perfectly [5] - 63:1, 63:6, pages [1] - 76:4 71:20, 74:17, 76:12, observation [2] - 62:6, opened [3] - 12:6, 18:28, 63:7, 65:22, 65:23 76:13, 76:16, 76:17 62:30 30:10 paid [1] - 3:2 perform [1] - 58:10 paper [1] - 46:16 nice [1] - 1:17 Observation [2] - 13:1, operandi [1] - 13:24 performing [1] - 58:10 paragraph [2] - 35:10, night [4] - 24:22, 39:18, 13:28 operated [2] - 2:24, 60:8 perhaps [12] - 2:11, 8:12, 39:20, 42:5 observations [1] - 12:19 operating [2] - 47:25, 35:13 11:12, 16:24, 21:29, pardon [4] - 24:3, 27:29, nine [1] - 32:25 obstruct [1] - 17:2 47:26 23:11, 25:20, 26:23, 37:16, 45:2 NIO [1] - 70:7 obtained [2] - 3:19, 52:20 operation [36] - 10:8, 63:13, 73:7, 75:18, part [11] - 2:7, 2:19, 5:9, nobody [1] - 54:13 obvious [1] - 71:11 11:1, 11:2, 11:3, 11:12, 75:22 8:5, 8:7, 18:24, 22:8, none [1] - 51:13 obviously [13] - 6:3, 6:26, 15:20, 15:21, 15:27, Perhaps [1] - 64:8 44:25, 44:26, 51:23, normal [2] - 49:26, 59:16 11:7, 12:24, 13:10, 16:10, 17:5, 19:18, period [3] - 12:28, 56:7, 66:18 normally [3] - 4:18, 14:20, 14:29, 27:13, 20:16, 20:18, 26:17, 70:18 participate [1] - 25:14 36:14, 67:24 31:25, 38:12, 66:7, 26:20, 29:18, 29:29, periodic [1] - 14:11 particular [65] - 2:10, north [5] - 2:20, 4:15, 66:22, 69:1 30:1, 30:6, 31:12, periods [1] - 10:17 3:11, 6:7, 7:3, 7:26, 6:11, 50:28, 67:7 occasion [2] - 9:9, 53:5 31:14, 31:26, 33:27, permission [1] - 69:14 9:25, 9:30, 10:20, North [3] - 2:5, 67:29, occasions [3] - 9:11, 34:14, 34:18, 54:14, permitted [1] - 33:2 11:15, 11:21, 11:28, 75:9 52:27, 53:4 55:8, 56:7, 56:26, person [15] - 4:23, 4:28, 12:3, 12:7, 12:27, Northern [46] - 2:14, 2:16, occurred [1] - 73:25 57:10, 57:11, 57:12, 7:17, 15:1, 16:27, 15:10, 15:30, 16:17, 2:18, 3:7, 3:14, 3:28, occurring [2] - 48:26, 57:25, 58:10, 60:3, 68:8 22:10, 25:9, 31:19, 16:23, 18:10, 18:19, 4:18, 4:27, 5:1, 5:10, 71:25 operations [14] - 7:14, 31:20, 33:11, 33:14, 20:25, 21:3, 23:17, 5:11, 5:13, 5:27, 5:29, October [3] - 34:1, 35:9, 7:15, 12:20, 13:17, 37:6, 39:8, 42:4, 55:7 24:29, 27:26, 28:9, 6:10, 6:21, 7:9, 10:5, 35:14 13:30, 15:22, 50:21, personal [1] - 59:16 28:24, 29:2, 30:3, 30:5, 10:9, 17:15, 17:16, OF [2] - 1:1, 76:20 50:28, 56:23, 57:1, personally [3] - 52:16, 30:17, 31:7, 31:18, 17:29, 47:13, 47:27, offences [4] - 2:13, 48:2, 57:2, 57:9, 57:18, 58:6 56:25, 57:3 33:5, 33:27, 34:20, 47:28, 47:30, 51:3, 48:29, 48:30 opinion [2] - 38:5, 38:6 personnel [15] - 11:20, 36:18, 38:16, 38:17, 51:6, 52:24, 53:19, offended [1] - 44:13 opportunity [5] - 48:14, 16:6, 23:6, 23:20, 39:17, 40:10, 41:2, 56:19, 56:22, 56:27, office [1] - 2:22 48:18, 48:25, 62:9, 23:25, 24:21, 32:14, 42:5, 42:20, 43:10, 59:6, 59:9, 59:23, 61:5, Office [2] - 14:18, 70:7 62:25 34:6, 35:15, 35:28, 43:23, 44:29, 45:28, 61:24, 64:26, 66:10, Officer [2] - 25:26 opposed [1] - 47:13 36:4, 39:29, 39:30, 46:7, 46:29, 49:11, 67:13, 67:20, 68:7, officer [5] - 2:29, 12:2, opposite [1] - 71:3 40:3, 40:7 49:18, 51:27, 53:30, 68:15, 70:6, 75:6 14:4, 35:24, 53:22 Ops [1] - 19:2 personnel" [1] - 23:28 54:5, 54:16, 56:18, northern [1] - 67:18 officers [21] - 16:16, option [1] - 16:5 persons [1] - 35:19 56:20, 58:16, 60:3, northwards [1] - 74:21 21:14, 23:24, 32:11, Order [1] - 12:14 persuaded [1] - 66:12 63:3, 68:12, 73:13, 74:4 note [8] - 19:25, 23:19, 32:25, 35:18, 35:25, order [1] - 19:11 persuasion [1] - 72:26 particularly [2] - 5:12, 33:29, 38:14, 66:20, 47:26, 48:4, 48:12, orders [1] - 19:17 pertaining [2] - 47:28, 67:10 69:13, 69:20, 70:12 48:26, 49:30, 51:29, organisation [1] - 16:23 56:9 parts [1] - 56:16 noted [5] - 13:5, 19:14, 52:5, 52:28, 53:4, organise [1] - 62:30 phone [6] - 27:22, 27:24, pass [5] - 38:24, 38:27, 70:20, 70:21, 73:16 53:14, 53:28, 56:3, original [1] - 3:26 28:17, 28:19, 28:22, 38:29, 50:3, 64:17 notes [4] - 18:15, 45:9, 56:4, 58:20 originally [2] - 2:16, 28:23 passed [5] - 14:1, 38:22, 69:23, 70:10 officers' [1] - 65:10 17:23 phoned [2] - 29:10, 30:28 44:11, 45:10, 52:10 nothing [14] - 13:5, official [4] - 64:26, 66:20, originated [1] - 11:17 photocopied [1] - 21:4 passing [8] - 15:19, 23:8, 18:22, 25:3, 31:6, 70:1, 70:7 otherwise [2] - 23:2, photocopying [3] - 24:5, 25:11, 33:3, 33:23, 34:17, 35:23, officials [3] - 6:13, 67:21, 33:24 20:26, 20:28, 20:29 38:10, 39:5, 39:6 38:30, 42:3, 46:7, 68:19 ourselves [1] - 75:21 phraseology [1] - 35:20 past [3] - 8:15, 36:30, 46:18, 57:24, 58:1, 74:4 often [5] - 52:15, 57:18, outcome [1] - 74:19 physical [1] - 50:27 49:11 notice [2] - 22:10, 59:19 58:3, 59:2, 67:22 outlook [1] - 17:29 piece [1] - 75:1 patrol [2] - 48:5, 75:27 notified [1] - 73:7 OK [3] - 43:24, 46:1 outrageous [1] - 62:10 pig [5] - 4:8, 4:14, 5:21, patrolling [2] - 48:6, 51:6 November [1] - 10:20 ON [1] - 1:1 outside [3] - 51:6, 61:17, 5:30, 6:1 patrols [1] - 50:14 number [7] - 13:19, once [7] - 3:27, 4:17, 62:13 pigs [11] - 4:7, 4:14, 4:16, pattern [3] - 52:22, 72:18, 13:29, 15:4, 54:23, 5:24, 15:5, 21:13, overall [1] - 29:24 4:21, 5:3, 5:23, 5:24, 72:21 62:11, 66:9, 71:4 52:17, 62:17 oversight [1] - 17:18 5:28, 5:30, 6:7, 56:17 pausing [1] - 48:20 numbers [1] - 75:5 one [30] - 8:8, 8:10, Owen [19] - 22:30, 23:7, pin [1] - 29:26 pay [2] - 3:9, 15:30 10:20, 13:29, 16:10, 24:24, 24:25, 35:4, PIRA [2] - 18:2, 22:27
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 8 place [19] - 10:30, 12:1, presumably [4] - 15:11, 60:14 refund [1] - 5:29 17:28, 17:30, 20:30, 12:24, 15:7, 22:27, 32:23, 32:29, 42:17 quick [2] - 57:11, 59:25 regard [1] - 50:1 49:25, 51:2, 51:3, 26:5, 26:11, 34:9, presume [1] - 61:27 quickly [2] - 57:26, 59:20 regarded [1] - 31:25 52:24, 56:28, 58:23, 34:11, 38:16, 41:15, prevalent [1] - 58:5 quite [2] - 14:5, 37:12 regarding [8] - 23:16, 59:6, 59:12 43:1, 44:3, 44:5, 51:27, prevent [2] - 71:1, 73:9 quote [1] - 43:23 41:8, 45:16, 46:7, reputation [1] - 50:18 54:14, 57:9, 59:2, 73:10 preventive [1] - 47:30 53:23, 55:12, 55:22, request [1] - 19:6 placed [1] - 19:19 previous [2] - 2:11, 33:30 R 58:19 requested [3] - 12:29, places [2] - 5:20, 56:21 previously [1] - 23:15 regards [3] - 48:26, 27:25, 50:27 rail [2] - 75:14, 75:21 plan [2] - 14:12, 58:7 primarily [1] - 68:7 49:19, 52:23 require [2] - 14:12, 16:13 railway [1] - 75:26 planned [2] - 57:2 primary [2] - 49:28, 50:5 region [2] - 56:20, 58:4 required [4] - 3:22, 19:9, raise [3] - 33:7, 41:16, planning [3] - 15:7, problem [4] - 4:16, 6:2, Regional [1] - 19:8 48:27, 57:7 41:19 56:23, 57:8 55:10, 75:15 regional [1] - 2:21 resent [1] - 62:19 raised [6] - 12:3, 13:14, plants [1] - 3:20 procedures [2] - 67:9, registration [1] - 4:22 reside [1] - 66:9 63:20, 69:2, 69:3, 69:10 plates [1] - 4:22 67:12 regrettable [1] - 61:9 respect [1] - 61:8 raising [1] - 64:2 plenary [1] - 69:25 proceed [1] - 1:7 regular [2] - 48:11, 48:13 respective [1] - 4:11 random [1] - 13:2 point [22] - 3:10, 8:10, process [1] - 67:1 regularly [1] - 67:12 response [2] - 64:9, rate [1] - 56:14 14:9, 14:11, 18:4, product [3] - 15:6, 15:8, reinforce [1] - 74:13 71:13 Rathcarr [1] - 73:19 19:10, 25:5, 27:27, 37:11 related [6] - 21:5, 33:11, responsible [2] - 2:13, rather [3] - 13:8, 13:27, 31:16, 32:21, 41:13, products [2] - 4:6, 4:7 34:10, 34:11, 74:23, 51:8 62:29 46:22, 57:1, 60:26, professional [1] - 25:4 76:2 rest [1] - 56:12 re [1] - 19:15 61:22, 62:2, 62:3, proffered [1] - 14:21 relating [6] - 21:6, 31:12, restricted [1] - 69:23 reach [1] - 59:7 64:24, 66:8, 73:13, profit [2] - 12:28, 13:7 33:14, 35:22, 37:22, restriction [1] - 8:30 read [9] - 12:8, 18:27, 73:21 progress [1] - 19:12 76:4 result [5] - 11:17, 13:7, 24:14, 24:17, 24:19, pointed [4] - 23:12, prominent [1] - 56:17 relation [13] - 7:28, 9:30, 18:26, 19:12, 67:5 42:29, 43:5, 43:15, 76:7 23:29, 37:6, 37:13 prompt [1] - 64:5 13:10, 15:23, 20:16, resulted [1] - 31:26 readily [1] - 69:16 points [2] - 61:8, 63:8 propaganda [1] - 70:26 20:22, 22:29, 29:29, RESUMED [1] - 1:1 reading [1] - 73:16 police [16] - 7:4, 9:4, properly [1] - 49:5 42:20, 55:19, 57:17, rethink [2] - 17:9, 20:18 14:28, 16:8, 16:14, ready [3] - 1:7, 1:12, properties [1] - 57:6 74:3, 75:26 reticent [1] - 36:3 18:4, 26:3, 33:5, 35:24, 48:20 property [9] - 5:7, 8:16, relationship [3] - 7:8, retired [2] - 47:10, 47:19 really [3] - 41:9, 42:23, 35:25, 55:23, 56:3, 8:18, 9:2, 11:5, 11:22, 68:4, 68:6 return [1] - 49:12 53:20 71:26, 73:17, 75:10, 49:4, 49:20, 50:16 relative [1] - 56:12 returned [1] - 5:27 75:17 reason [5] - 1:14, 18:4, property-wise [1] - 5:7 released [2] - 31:16, 32:2 revenue [1] - 17:27 Police [5] - 23:1, 32:5, 20:25, 43:3, 49:18 proposed [1] - 54:7 relevance [1] - 66:25 risk [6] - 17:12, 55:22, 32:24, 68:7, 73:19 reasons [2] - 1:14, 74:11 protection [1] - 74:21 relevancy [1] - 64:27 55:29, 56:1, 56:3, 56:5 policing [3] - 75:20, reassured [1] - 74:28 prove [1] - 13:28 relevant [3] - 24:19, 62:3, road [1] - 4:23 75:25, 75:29 recalled [1] - 44:9 proved [1] - 62:22 65:6 roadblocks [1] - 73:8 Policy [2] - 12:1, 12:23 recalling [1] - 13:26 provide [3] - 59:30, 60:7, relied [1] - 63:9 roads [1] - 75:23 political [1] - 68:10 receive [1] - 40:25 74:20 religious [1] - 72:26 ROBINSON [5] - 54:23, portion [1] - 66:24 received [6] - 8:24, 21:14, provided [1] - 21:1 rely [1] - 6:29 54:28, 54:30, 55:28, position [5] - 15:14, 46:7, 28:7, 28:10, 29:1, 38:2 providing [2] - 18:12, remains [2] - 65:30, 66:16 60:12 58:11, 58:19, 60:6 recently [1] - 61:4 21:3 remark [2] - 44:11, 62:21 Robinson [3] - 54:26, positioned [1] - 5:6 recipient [1] - 12:16 province [1] - 8:5 remarks [3] - 62:10, 54:30, 55:25 possession [2] - 18:6, recognise [2] - 46:18, provisions [1] - 7:27 62:26, 71:9 role [3] - 51:11, 51:14, 74:29 63:30 PSNI [10] - 7:1, 9:4, remember [13] - 20:24, 54:3 possible [3] - 29:27, 73:8, recognised [2] - 1:13, 20:19, 23:24, 33:5, 38:13, 38:16, 38:17, room [3] - 23:5, 32:20, 74:20 36:27 34:11, 51:2, 53:26, 41:25, 42:11, 44:3, 39:9 possibly [4] - 14:13, recollect [5] - 28:13, 55:1, 56:8 44:4, 44:24, 44:28, rough [1] - 15:6 29:18, 61:8, 71:14 34:1, 35:19, 36:18, 42:7 publicised [1] - 72:5 46:3, 46:13 round [1] - 17:26 post [1] - 31:20 recollected [1] - 40:11 purchased [1] - 3:7 remembered [3] - 42:21, route [3] - 5:28, 15:5, potential [1] - 64:27 recollection [7] - 28:29, purport [1] - 70:13 44:28, 46:28 75:18 pound [2] - 3:9, 6:5 31:27, 33:15, 34:19, purpose [5] - 26:1, 40:15, remembering [1] - 20:25 routinely [1] - 14:3 pounds [1] - 6:15 38:15, 46:9, 46:11 61:6, 61:12, 75:13 remove [2] - 3:16, 14:15 RRF [2] - 14:1, 14:6 practicing [1] - 61:17 recommendations [1] - put [8] - 4:19, 11:30, removed [2] - 3:17, 3:27 RUC [14] - 7:1, 13:20, 15:15 precautions [5] - 15:25, 22:18, 42:17, 44:13, repeat [3] - 52:3, 52:30, 14:3, 14:6, 19:18, record [2] - 42:29, 70:13 15:26, 15:27, 17:4, 44:18, 72:2, 74:3 55:25 24:20, 33:1, 34:11, 59:14 recorded [2] - 73:28, 76:3 putting [1] - 66:28 reply [2] - 37:15, 37:17 35:8, 67:20, 67:29, premises [4] - 49:22, records [2] - 11:29, 66:21 report [6] - 12:29, 19:3, 70:29, 71:4, 75:28 recruit [1] - 61:6 57:19, 57:20, 59:8 Q 19:9, 30:12, 61:21, rumbled [1] - 17:13 preparation [1] - 57:5 recurrence [1] - 71:2 73:17 rumour [2] - 61:18, 61:22 prepared [1] - 57:23 qualified [1] - 4:8 Redacted [1] - 64:13 reported [3] - 15:17, run [1] - 2:19 preplanning [1] - 29:24 qualify [1] - 5:29 refer [2] - 12:4, 35:8 73:10, 73:20 running [1] - 20:18 presence [3] - 35:18, quarter [1] - 23:23 reference [5] - 22:25, reporting [1] - 18:29 Rural [1] - 19:8 36:5, 40:24 query [3] - 13:10, 18:28, 44:21, 64:27, 65:12, represented [1] - 65:8 present [10] - 11:21, 33:7 76:6 representing [2] - 47:19 S 20:10, 26:19, 32:12, questions [11] - 26:24, referred [5] - 11:1, 31:2, Republic [24] - 3:8, 3:15, 32:14, 35:15, 35:29, 26:27, 34:27, 35:4, 31:3, 33:29, 60:4 3:19, 4:3, 4:20, 4:21, sadly [2] - 62:16, 65:15 36:4, 36:8, 44:26 47:4, 47:11, 54:19, referring [6] - 5:8, 30:6, 4:24, 5:15, 6:9, 7:5, safer [1] - 75:17 pressed [1] - 72:21 54:21, 54:23, 60:12, 37:19, 37:21, 38:3, 56:2 10:9, 17:15, 17:16, safety [2] - 15:28, 59:14
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 9 satisfied [1] - 74:30 September [2] - 8:26, 66:22, 66:28, 68:25 59:13, 71:27 44:5 Saturday [1] - 74:17 66:30 small [1] - 57:11 special [3] - 7:12, 9:4, stuff [1] - 5:13 save [1] - 61:23 Sergeant [26] - 22:30, smash [1] - 71:30 67:26 subject [2] - 11:22, 30:3 saw [1] - 25:1 23:4, 23:26, 25:12, smuggle [2] - 3:6, 18:7 specific [2] - 34:17, 35:21 submissions [3] - 61:20, scale [2] - 18:7, 26:18 28:11, 29:10, 30:25, smuggled [1] - 4:6 specifically [4] - 13:14, 62:4, 63:8 schedule [1] - 67:8 32:16, 32:19, 33:27, smuggler [3] - 10:28, 49:20, 50:15, 68:13 subsequently [4] - 3:18, scheduled [2] - 10:27, 36:25, 36:28, 39:9, 16:11, 16:20 speculation [1] - 13:8 5:14, 8:21, 45:10 76:13 42:8, 42:15, 43:8, smugglers [7] - 3:16, speech [1] - 70:12 subtlety [1] - 14:13 scope [1] - 72:20 45:22, 46:8, 46:27, 5:16, 5:18, 10:17, spent [1] - 2:4 success [3] - 7:28, 13:23, screen [2] - 12:9, 24:14 47:10, 47:19, 62:20, 10:21, 21:21, 22:5 SPM [3] - 12:21, 12:23, 31:25 search [3] - 10:27, 11:12, 64:30, 65:3, 65:7, 65:17 smuggling [38] - 2:25, 13:26 successful [1] - 58:8 57:6 Sergeants [1] - 65:8 4:5, 5:5, 9:24, 9:30, spoken [6] - 18:11, 62:14, successfully [1] - 7:28 searched [1] - 57:20 series [1] - 21:21 10:8, 11:27, 12:20, 62:15, 63:18, 63:19, suggest [3] - 44:14, 50:8, searches [3] - 10:23, serious [6] - 8:28, 16:10, 13:28, 16:28, 17:14, 63:20 51:17 57:18, 57:28 62:21, 63:29, 74:26, 17:24, 18:2, 18:9, 22:6, Square [3] - 23:2, 32:25, suggesting [5] - 50:20, second [5] - 10:26, 10:27, 75:14 25:5, 30:16, 31:13, 45:19 51:5, 53:21, 54:7, 54:12 35:9, 44:26, 68:12 servant [2] - 47:13, 47:14 31:14, 49:9, 49:16, Staff [2] - 25:26 suggests [1] - 9:15 second-last [1] - 35:9 servants [4] - 2:15, 2:17, 49:19, 49:21, 50:1, stage [4] - 4:8, 11:11, summary [1] - 14:6 secondly [1] - 61:16 2:18, 60:7 50:11, 50:12, 51:19, 68:13, 69:25 Sunday [1] - 13:23 Secret [1] - 69:14 Service [1] - 73:4 51:23, 52:6, 52:19, stand [2] - 63:29, 71:14 Superintendent [20] - secret [1] - 62:11 session [4] - 68:18, 53:30, 54:8, 55:14, start [1] - 64:2 11:16, 15:12, 19:14, 56:2, 56:11, 56:15, secretariat [2] - 70:2, 69:16, 69:23, 69:25 started [2] - 5:18, 10:14 19:19, 19:26, 26:4, 70:7 set [3] - 2:7, 67:12, 72:18 56:16, 57:27 State [12] - 11:20, 12:4, 27:10, 27:15, 34:6, solely [2] - 2:24, 60:4 Secretary [15] - 11:19, seven [1] - 8:20 12:19, 13:5, 13:14, 34:21, 55:2, 55:3, 55:5, 12:3, 12:14, 12:19, several [2] - 13:20, 16:11 solicitor [2] - 40:26, 14:27, 22:27, 67:13, 55:6, 55:12, 70:23, 13:5, 13:13, 14:27, shall [2] - 2:16, 62:4 61:17 67:19, 68:15, 70:4, 70:5 70:24, 75:7 67:13, 67:14, 67:16, shared [1] - 14:3 someone [1] - 28:8 state [1] - 35:13 Superintendents [1] - 67:19, 68:14, 69:29, sheds [2] - 56:28, 57:24 sometime [4] - 10:14, statement [19] - 25:23, 29:28 70:4, 70:6 shocked [2] - 70:24, 29:2, 29:8, 74:17 26:13, 33:29, 35:5, superiors [1] - 33:8 sectarian [1] - 72:1 70:29 sometimes [5] - 3:23, 35:8, 43:4, 44:19, 45:1, supplement [1] - 13:24 section [1] - 35:7 shocking [1] - 71:10 9:2, 37:22, 67:13, 67:26 45:6, 45:10, 49:3, supplied [1] - 64:25 security [22] - 1:13, 18:3, shooting [1] - 73:10 somewhere [1] - 73:11 63:22, 64:21, 64:28, suppose [2] - 70:10, 76:5 18:13, 19:12, 20:7, short [2] - 59:19, 70:18 soon [1] - 4:3 64:30, 65:3, 65:17 supposed [2] - 9:16, 20:14, 20:15, 35:24, shortly [5] - 11:26, 29:13, sooner [1] - 73:8 stating [2] - 44:21, 46:4 10:29 53:19, 53:24, 53:25, 65:4, 65:18, 70:19 sorry [6] - 39:23, 43:3, Station [6] - 23:1, 32:5, surprised [2] - 33:1, 55:12, 55:14, 56:9, shot [2] - 29:28, 73:20 43:15, 45:4, 45:29, 32:6, 32:25, 35:9, 73:19 63:24 66:19, 68:13, 68:20, show [1] - 24:8 50:24 station [10] - 19:16, 26:4, surprises [1] - 61:28 69:6, 69:21, 69:24, showing [1] - 27:14 sort [7] - 7:26, 8:2, 15:26, 33:2, 34:8, 34:11, survey [5] - 13:1, 13:2, 71:5, 76:4 shut [1] - 13:21 15:27, 17:25, 69:7, 34:12, 51:25, 51:28, 13:4, 13:29, 14:9 Security [2] - 11:30, SIB [2] - 7:9, 58:24 72:14 55:7, 68:30 surveys [1] - 13:29 12:23 sic [2] - 20:7, 72:12 sorts [1] - 3:30 stationed [3] - 27:27, suspected [1] - 33:3 see [17] - 6:26, 8:25, 8:27, side [17] - 5:13, 5:15, sought [3] - 18:28, 19:4, 27:30, 28:1 suspicion [1] - 68:28 10:26, 12:8, 18:26, 7:20, 7:21, 56:27, 69:15 stations [3] - 47:29, sustain [1] - 8:23 19:1, 24:10, 24:15, 57:27, 58:25, 67:16, sound [7] - 4:4, 18:9, 51:10, 51:26 sustainable [1] - 62:23 25:16, 28:6, 35:12, 67:18, 67:19, 68:6, 19:7, 21:20, 23:5, step [2] - 16:12, 71:1 sustained [1] - 51:23 45:16, 51:26, 52:13, 68:16, 68:17, 69:27, 39:21, 46:14 steps [3] - 7:19, 16:23, SWEENEY [1] - 24:13 52:22, 72:19 70:4, 72:30, 75:29 source [2] - 49:28, 50:5 71:22 SWORN [1] - 2:1 seeing [1] - 1:14 sides [3] - 26:20, 68:10, south [40] - 4:15, 4:28, Stewart [1] - 70:5 sympathies [1] - 70:28 seek [4] - 7:4, 40:19, 68:19 5:9, 5:10, 5:26, 6:11, still [1] - 21:10 system [1] - 68:8 61:10, 72:13 significant [1] - 53:18 6:20, 6:23, 7:6, 7:18, sting [2] - 11:2, 11:3 seize [1] - 9:2 similar [1] - 6:22 7:22, 8:3, 8:7, 8:19, 9:5, stock [1] - 4:13 T seized [3] - 51:15, 59:22, simple [1] - 65:16 10:21, 10:28, 11:5, stop [1] - 48:1 59:23 simply [1] - 34:20 11:28, 12:20, 14:15, stopped [2] - 4:22, 51:14 table [1] - 74:11 26:25, 47:25, 50:15, seizures [1] - 52:8 Siochana [5] - 27:5, 27:9, stories [1] - 72:28 tag [1] - 3:26 selected [1] - 10:6 33:2, 33:9, 57:15 50:22, 50:28, 51:19, Stormont [2] - 11:18, tagged [2] - 3:14, 3:15 52:16, 52:28, 53:2, self [1] - 53:10 sitting [1] - 76:13 12:15 tags [7] - 3:17, 3:19, 3:20, 53:29, 56:15, 56:16, self-confessed [1] - situation [15] - 5:2, 5:23, story [2] - 72:2, 72:11 3:27, 3:28, 4:2, 59:27 56:24, 58:3, 58:28, 53:10 7:17, 12:3, 16:26, straddled [2] - 49:22, TANAISTE [1] - 72:7 59:11, 59:21, 59:25, selling [1] - 5:30 16:27, 17:9, 17:14, 57:7 Tanaiste [1] - 69:27 75:16 senior [1] - 2:29 20:22, 29:24, 31:18, straddling [1] - 56:28 tanker's [1] - 13:6 southern [1] - 10:24 Senior [2] - 19:2 44:1, 45:16, 46:3, 58:1 straightforward [1] - 52:8 tankers [1] - 12:28 southwards [1] - 74:22 sense [2] - 50:9, 51:20 situations [1] - 56:6 strapping [1] - 56:1 target [1] - 16:17 speaking [6] - 36:14, sensitive [2] - 35:24, six [4] - 22:7, 22:12, 31:3, strategically [1] - 5:6 targeted [2] - 10:18, 36:15, 37:23, 57:6, 68:29 31:9 strategy [1] - 17:9 10:21 66:10 sent [2] - 18:30, 19:1 Slab [1] - 8:18 Street [1] - 23:1 targets [1] - 10:7 Special [10] - 7:11, 10:24, sentence [1] - 36:2 slaughtered [1] - 3:21 strong [1] - 61:13 tasked [1] - 65:1 18:16, 19:24, 20:4, sentences [1] - 35:12 slight [1] - 26:9 strongly [1] - 72:3 team [5] - 10:4, 29:21, 20:19, 33:23, 46:5, separate [1] - 48:3 slightly [5] - 5:23, 6:19, stuck [3] - 1:14, 38:12, 60:1, 60:5, 68:19
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd. Smithwick Tribunal - 14 June 2012 - Day 103 10 teams [1] - 48:1 travelled [3] - 14:24, 15:29, 23:28, 55:9, 59:7 visiting [2] - 19:24, 58:24 worth [1] - 6:15 telephone [2] - 18:21, 20:24, 59:14 Under [1] - 12:14 vital [1] - 53:23 writing [1] - 24:18 75:5 travelling [3] - 61:5, unease [1] - 14:29 written [1] - 23:27 ten [3] - 6:15, 38:1, 66:2 61:24, 74:21 unfortunate [1] - 75:15 W tending [1] - 3:5 treated [1] - 19:6 unfortunately [2] - 9:20, Y wants [1] - 30:29 term [1] - 61:13 treatment [1] - 8:22 72:17 warn [1] - 17:7 yard [6] - 3:13, 4:17, 4:19, terms [12] - 22:25, 29:27, trend [2] - 52:18, 55:18 Uniform [1] - 71:26 warned [3] - 23:3, 23:13, 5:11, 5:14 35:30, 36:10, 37:1, TRIBUNAL [2] - 1:1, unit [15] - 2:7, 2:10, 2:24, 40:18, 41:22, 46:2, 76:20 2:27, 2:28, 2:29, 4:18, 37:6 yards [3] - 5:3, 5:4 warning [1] - 70:10 year [2] - 40:4, 75:3 65:12, 72:30, 75:20, Tribunal [46] - 11:15, 4:20, 47:24, 47:27, 75:29 11:19, 11:30, 12:6, 48:3, 48:4, 50:9 warnings [1] - 17:11 years [9] - 13:19, 38:1, terrible [1] - 72:29 14:25, 19:7, 19:25, Unit [2] - 19:24, 73:5 WAS [5] - 2:1, 27:1, 38:13, 39:20, 40:6, 41:26, 42:12, 43:24, terrorism [1] - 17:24 21:26, 22:11, 22:29, unit's [1] - 49:15 34:29, 47:8, 54:28 62:12 THE [7] - 1:1, 27:1, 34:29, 26:12, 26:16, 29:4, unless [2] - 34:17, 41:14 watch [1] - 46:14 yesterday [1] - 12:21 47:8, 54:28, 76:20 34:9, 39:28, 39:30, unproved [1] - 15:5 ways [1] - 71:4 yourself [1] - 8:9 themselves [3] - 16:1, 40:2, 40:6, 40:8, 40:12, unrelated [1] - 66:13 weapons [1] - 16:4 41:14, 51:16 40:14, 40:15, 40:20, untowards [1] - 42:3 Wednesday [2] - 24:11, 34:3 THEN [1] - 76:20 40:26, 41:6, 41:10, unusual [2] - 35:23, 53:6 £ week [6] - 29:28, 30:4, thereabouts [1] - 64:22 41:14, 44:9, 45:8, 45:9, up [52] - 2:7, 2:26, 3:29, £1 [1] - 5:21 therefore [7] - 4:11, 4:16, 60:1, 60:17, 61:20, 4:23, 4:29, 4:30, 6:20, 52:15, 52:17, 74:17 £10 [2] - 4:8, 5:30 5:1, 5:19, 5:28, 39:22, 62:14, 62:15, 62:16, 6:27, 9:4, 9:29, 11:10, weekend [2] - 71:2, 71:20 £100 [2] - 5:19, 52:21 66:25 63:15, 64:14, 65:6, 11:11, 11:12, 11:23, weekly [1] - 7:16 £2.50 [1] - 5:21 thinking [4] - 5:4, 10:11, 65:9, 65:11, 65:12, 12:9, 14:23, 15:3, 16:6, weeks [2] - 41:30, 42:13 £2.50s [1] - 5:22 11:7, 11:11 65:13, 65:14 21:20, 22:4, 23:8, well-documented [1] - third [1] - 43:5 Tribunal's [1] - 40:17 23:10, 24:1, 24:7, 13:22 thorough [1] - 68:21 Tribunals [1] - 61:19 30:28, 32:21, 33:6, well.. [1] - 41:12 thousand [1] - 6:15 tried [2] - 3:29, 62:12 33:25, 38:21, 43:21, whatsoever [1] - 51:13 threat [3] - 8:28, 8:30, trimmings [1] - 6:14 45:1, 45:6, 45:9, 45:17, whereby [1] - 72:20 15:29 trouble [1] - 5:12 45:20, 45:22, 46:2, who'd [1] - 32:8 threats [1] - 17:12 truth [3] - 61:15, 63:4, 46:4, 46:9, 46:11, whole [4] - 17:18, 67:21, three [11] - 6:1, 8:13, 69:8 46:13, 46:15, 51:16, 75:20, 75:26 26:2, 41:30, 42:13, truthful [1] - 64:4 56:30, 59:7, 59:18, widely [1] - 14:5 44:2, 49:13, 61:8, 65:9, try [7] - 15:25, 17:28, 59:26, 73:21, 75:27, wind [1] - 16:20 67:24, 71:25 29:26, 42:10, 55:15, 75:28 wise [1] - 5:7 throughout [3] - 2:14, 64:1, 72:14 up-to-date [1] - 15:3 wish [2] - 1:13, 26:24 56:19, 56:22 trying [9] - 28:10, 61:6, update [1] - 55:18 wishes [1] - 62:7 thwarted [1] - 13:20 61:10, 61:12, 62:30, updated [1] - 15:14 withdrawn [1] - 62:22 TO [1] - 76:20 72:29, 73:26, 75:1 urgent [1] - 19:6 withdrew [1] - 20:10 today [4] - 39:20, 39:27, TUESDAY [1] - 76:20 urgently [1] - 59:21 witness [12] - 1:5, 19:1, 66:1, 76:12 Tuesday [4] - 10:30, 41:1, 47:4, 54:24, together [4] - 71:12, 76:13, 76:16, 76:17 V 61:12, 61:27, 63:14, 74:11, 74:17, 75:1 turning [1] - 32:3 63:25, 64:19, 65:25, value [1] - 70:26 toll [2] - 5:20 twice [1] - 52:17 76:15 various [8] - 10:17, 24:21, Tom [1] - 11:20 two [23] - 6:1, 8:13, Witness [35] - 1:12, 2:4, 36:15, 43:14, 43:20, tomorrow [1] - 30:29 23:23, 26:2, 31:10, 11:15, 12:8, 14:22, 50:2, 58:14 took [11] - 3:8, 12:1, 35:12, 44:21, 48:3, 14:23, 19:1, 20:7, vehicle [2] - 5:13, 12:29 12:24, 34:9, 36:2, 61:8, 64:29, 65:9, 23:22, 24:17, 27:4, vehicles [6] - 6:16, 6:17, 41:15, 43:1, 44:3, 45:9, 65:14, 67:24, 70:28, 27:8, 34:6, 34:24, 6:19, 15:4, 15:10, 48:2 58:7, 73:10 71:12, 73:20, 73:25, 35:14, 43:7, 43:9, verbatim [1] - 70:13 topics [1] - 43:20 74:2, 74:18, 74:22, 43:19, 43:20, 47:10, versa [2] - 10:10, 59:10 topics" [1] - 43:14 74:30 48:25, 49:14, 49:28, [3] via [2] - 19:4, 20:24 51:17, 52:16, 53:21, total [1] - 15:8 type - 6:22, 57:10, 57:25 vice [2] - 10:9, 59:9 53:27, 54:7, 54:30, touch [3] - 7:16, 48:28, vicinity [1] - 49:4 53:8 typed [3] - 45:1, 45:6, 56:11, 58:27, 59:28, 45:9 victims [1] - 63:2 60:16, 60:27, 61:3 touching [1] - 65:11 types [1] - 48:3 video [1] - 1:6 WITNESS [5] - 2:1, 27:1, Tower [2] - 13:1, 13:29 typical [2] - 59:22, 72:12 video-link [1] - 1:6 34:29, 47:8, 54:28 tractor [2] - 4:17, 4:20 view [14] - 14:28, 14:30, witnesses [8] - 61:3, traditional [1] - 17:17 15:2, 17:23, 18:4, 19:4, 61:6, 61:28, 62:13, traffic [2] - 15:10, 58:16 U 23:14, 25:5, 55:11, 63:1, 63:11, 66:9, 66:13 tragedy [1] - 70:25 UK [1] - 67:14 55:29, 62:3, 65:23, wonder [2] - 55:1, 59:29 tragic [1] - 75:13 Ulster [1] - 68:28 69:1, 73:24 wonder.. [1] - 66:2 training [2] - 16:2, 16:4 unable [2] - 20:8, 60:6 views [3] - 12:9, 18:29, wondering [2] - 18:15, transactions [1] - 5:17 unarmed [1] - 16:6 20:14 35:16 transferred [1] - 6:24 unaware [1] - 15:8 visit [4] - 11:16, 34:7, word [1] - 10:12 transversing [1] - 11:22 unchallenged [1] - 62:11 58:13, 58:14 words [2] - 22:18, 43:16 travel [3] - 7:22, 58:30, undated [1] - 12:16 visitations [1] - 18:16 workings [2] - 55:4, 59:19 under [6] - 8:27, 8:30, visited [2] - 52:27, 53:2 55:17
Doyle Court Reporters Ltd.