Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 4 NOVEMBER 1958

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Queensland Parliamentary Debates.

'JLegislatt"e Rssembl\?.

SECOND SESSION OF THE THIRTY-FIFTH PARLIAMENT.

Appointed to meet

AT BRISBANE ON THE NINETEENTH DAY OF AUGUST, IN THE SEVENTH YEAR OF THE REIGN OF HER MAJESTY QUEEN ELIZABETH 11., IN THE YEAR OF OUR LORD 1958.

[VOLUME 2.]

TUESDAY, 4 NOVEMBER, 1958. he give consideration to either selling these homes to tenants at capital cost or selling them at valuation as at the date of the Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. A. R. Fletcher, commencement of tenancy~'' Cunningham) took the chair at 11 a.m. Hon. T. A. HILEY (Coorparoo) replied- ASSENT TO BILLS. '' The honourable gentleman's references Assent to the following Bills reported by to high profits create an altogether wrong Mr. Speaker:- impression. I would remind him that Coroners Bill. no fewer than 655 houses were sold to rproduce an aggregate profit of £110,475- Crown Employees Bill. an average of £168 13s. 4d. per house. This Ride, Skin, and Wool Dealers' Bill. is almost entirely the result of increased Weights and Measures Acts Amendment land values, but even then the properties Bill. are sold at prices very much below what Registration of Births Deaths and purchasers would have to pay elsewhere for Marriages Acts Amendment Bill. comparable building sites. It would also be quite wrong for honourable members to imagine that the making of a profit last QUESTIONS. year indicates that there will be an overall .SALE OF RENTAL HOMES TO TENANTS OF profit on the sale of houses. My concern THE 'QUEENSLAND HOUSING COMMISSION. is that we will not succeed in making suf­ ficient on the favourable houses to offset lllr. BAXTER (Norman), for lllr. LLOYD what the State will certainly lose on a (Kedron), asked the Treasurer and Minister number of very bad houses that we for Housing- inherited from Labour's administration. I '' In view of the high profits being made can assure the honourable gentleman that by the Queensland Housing Commission on the houses that we are selling reprPsent the sale of tenanted homes built under the mostly the cream. We are still left with Commonwealth-States Housing Agreements, the skim milk and the losses that the State and as the formula upon which economic will incur at Zillmere, Carina, Chermside, rental is based includes the payment by Ipswilch and Toowoomba are calculated to tenants of interest and redemption on completely absorb any profit which is monies owed to the Commonwealth by the derived from sales of the more favourable State for capital cost of construction, will houses.'' 1958-2K 970 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

OFFICE OF STATE CHILDREN DEPARTMENT AT "(2) If the Prime Minister refuses the CAIRNS. request, will he make another public state­ ment immediately on receipt of the reply, lllr. ADAIR (Cook) asked the Minister condemning the Prime Minister for neglect for Health and Home Affairs- of Queensland?'' '' In view of the numerous requests made Hon. G. F, R. NICKLIN (Landsborough) on the State Children Department, will he replied- give consideration to opening an office of the State Children Department at Cairns g" " (1) The Prime Minister is fully aware of the national importance of the Mount Isa-Townsville-Bowen railway, and I have Hon. H. W. NOBLE (Yeronga) replied- no doubt of his great personal interest in '' The matter of establishing a District the rehabilitation of that system. This Office of the State Children Department at being so, I feel confident that everything Cairns was considered when the staffing of possible will be done by him and his Gov­ that Department was investigated by the ernment when they are returned to power Public Service Commissioner early this on November 22nd next to ensure that this year. There was then insufficient 'experi­ State obtains the necessary finance to carry enced Inspectors attached to the Depart· out the project.'' ment to permit an extension of country "(2) See answer to No. (I)." offices, and as additional Inspectors have recently been appointed, the matter of the COMMONWEALTH PAYMENT TO ANSETT-A.N.A. District Office at Cairns is to be re-consid­ ered when the new appointees have had lUr. DA VIES (Maryborough) asked the training and experience.'' Premier- " (1) Is it a fact that the Commonwealth Government has budgeted for a gift of EX'!'RA CLASSROOM ACCOMMODATION, DALBY £H million to Ansett-A.N.A., a private HIGH SCHOOL. enterprise firm, to enable it to more sue·· lUr. AD AIR (Cook), for lllr. DIPLOCK cessfully compete with the Government (Condamine), asked the Minister for Public enterprise, Trans-Australia Airlines~" Works and Local Government- "(2) If so, will he eommunicate with the Prime Minister and request him to reallo­ '' When is it anticipated that work will cate that £H million towards work on the be commenced to provide extra classroom Mt. Isa-Townsville-Bowen railway as Coun­ accommodation necessary for the intake of try-Liberal Party policy is non-interfer­ students at the Dalby High School at the ence with private enterprise by Govern­ beginning of the 1959 school year?'' ments, and because of the extreme national importance of this railway line~'' Hon. J. A. HEADING (Marodian) replied- Hon. G. F. R. NICKLIN (Landsborough) replied- '' Plans and estimate of cost for the provision of additional classroom accommo­ " (1) I am not aware that the Com­ dation at the State High School, Dalby, monwealth Government has budgeted for a have been prepared. The proposal is to be 'gift' of £1 ~ million to anybody.'' submitted to the Executive Council on "(2) Evidently the Honourable Member Thursday next for consideration of approval is not keeping up with current events. of the expenditure involved. The work will Surely he knows that the Commonwealth be commenced as soon as possible after Budget has passed through both Houses of approval.'' the Commonwealth Parliament, and, that the Commonwealth Parliament is prorogued pending the forthcoming election. If the STANDARD GAUGE, ALBURY-MELBOURNE, AND Honourable Member has learned anything MT. IsA-TowNSVILLE--BoWEN RAILWAY. of Parliamentary procedure in the time he has been a Member of this House, which is lllr. DAVIES (Maryborough) asked the doubtful, he should realise that in these Premier- circumstances it is impossible to have the " ( 1) In view of the fact that the contents of that Commonwealth Budget Menzies Liberal-Country Party Common­ changed, except by the Parliament itself. wealth Government has agreed to pay £7ft In any event, the Commonwealth Govern­ million of the total cost of approximately ment knows its own business best and I £10~ million to build a standard railway would not dare to presume to be an adviser gauge between Albury and Melbourne, will to the Prime Minister on how he should he communicate urgently with the Prime frame his budget.'' Minister and point out to him that Queens· land is entitled at least to a similar grant COST OF BI:

the Hon. A. R. Fletcher, on the efficiency do not want it at the cost of a reduced of the staff of the Government Printing quality. We shall get that business back Office when he stated 'a considerable sav· on the merits of the Printing Office. I ing in binding costs which hon. members have enough confidence in the Queensland will be interested to know, was effected as tradesman that if you give him the right a result of switching our binding work tools, he will stand up to competition from from the Government Printing Office to a anywhere.'' private concern. By doing so we have saved as much as 50 per cent. on individual items' and 'I expect that they are more PAPERS. efficient in private enterprise,' will he state if he agrees with this view~" The following papers were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed: - '' (2) Does he consider that the hon. mem­ ber was fair in making such an attack on Report of the State Government Insurance the remarkably efficient officers of the Office for the year 1957-1958. Government Printing Office in order to Report of the Health and Medical Services attack a Government enterprise~" of the State of Queensland for the year '' ( 3) Will he inform the House of the 1957-1958. total amount saved on binding work up to Report of the Commissioner for Transport the present time~" for the year 1957-1958. " ( 4) If money was saved, will he give the correct reasons why~ ' ' The following papers were laid on the Hon. T. A. HILEY (Coorparoo) replied- table:- '' Binding work cannot be considered only Order in Council under the State Develop­ on price. The quality of bindings is cap­ ment and Public Works Organisation able of infinite variation. Without exami­ Acts, 1938 to 1954. nation by a competent tradesman of such Proclamation notifying Her Majesty's work, I am unable to comment on the Assent to the Queensland Marine Bill. degree of saving as claimed by the honour­ able the Speaker. Order in Council under the Supreme Court But I can say that the cost of binding Aet of 1921. work in the Printing Office has been the Orller in Council under the Stock Rout-es subject of concern, not only of late, but and Rural Lands Protection Acts 1944 over recent years. I can assure the hon. to 1951. gentleman that, unlike the Government of which he was a member, my Government is concerned to see that the Government Print­ CHARITABLE FUNDS BILL. ing Office is able to compete both in price and quality with the best of private enter­ INITIATION. prise. Hon. A. W. lUUNRO (Toowong-Minister We are conscious of many real advan­ for Justice): I move- tages enjoyed by the Government Printing Office. It pays no rates, it pays no sales tax '' That the House will, at its next sitting, on plant or consumable material. With resolve itself into a Committee of the Whole these advantages, it should be able to com­ to consider of the desirableness of intro­ pete. ducing a Bill to make alternative provision That it sometimes did not do so was the for the extension of the charitable pur­ direct result of Labour's policy under which poses for which certain funds may be the fine tradesmen who work in the Govern­ applied, and for the disposition and ment Printing Office were denied modern appropriation of such funds for and to and up-to-date plant. Some of the plant charitable purposes other than those for items in use up to 1957 were so old that which they were established, and for other they should have been in a museum of purposes.'' antique printing appliances. Some were even antecedent to metal bearers and Motion agreed to. worked on- the Noah 's Ark pattern on wooden bearers. JURY ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. The Government is determined to end Labour's sorry pattern of obsolete equip­ INITIATION. ment. Orders have been placed for really modern appliances, totalling £130,000. Of Hon. A. W. lUUNRO (Toowong-Minister this, £100,000 is expected in this financial for Justice): I move-- year and if the hon. gentleman has read ''That the House will, at its next sittng, the Budget, he should have seen that resolve itself into a Committee of the £100,000 is provided in this year's loan Whole to consider of the desirableness of fund estimates. introdUJCing a Bill to amend the Jury Acts, I want to see this binding work back 1929 to 1956, in certain particulars.'' at the Government Printing Office, but I do not want it at an excessive price. I Motion agreed to. 972 Inspection of Scaffolding [ASSEMBLY.] Acts Amendment Bill.

INSPECTION OF SCAFFOLDING ACTS of the Government to continue actively in AMENDMENT BILL. furthering safety measures in all occupations, by both legislative and consultative means. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE-RESUMPTION OF DEBATE. I should like to elaborate a little on what (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, I have said about explosive-powered tools. Clayfield, in the chair.) Some people fallaciously believe that an explosive-powered tool, which carries a blank Debate resumed from 30 October (see cartridge and has a stud or bolt that can be p. 924) on Mr. Morris's motion- fired into wood or steel, thus saving a great '' That it is desirable that a Bill be intro­ deal of time and labour, can be fired into. duced to amend the Inspection of Scaffold­ the air. The only way in which it can be ing Acts, 1915 to 1955, in certain fired is to depress the end completely. The particulars.'' danger associated with it is that unless the user knows what he is doing, he can cause· Hon. K. J. !UORRIS (Mt. Coot-tha­ an accident by carelessness. Suppose that the Minister for Labour and Industry) (11.15 piece of .·wood that I hold in my hand was. a.m.): Hon. members will remember that on being worked on with the gun. The pro­ Thursday last I had almost completed my jectile would enter the wood all right but, remarks on the introduction of the Bill. as it is so thin, it would go right through and When time expired, I had just started to out the other side. The workman must know speak about the insertion of a new subsection what he is working on and be sure that the for the issue of regulations to prescribe. material has a good backing so that there regulate and control the precautions and is no danger of that. All these matters are measures to be taken in connection with the important. I have spent some hours examin­ use of explosive-powered tools. I am sure ing the device and I am satisfied that it is. that this will be recognised universally as a good. I am equally satisfied that con.ditions very important sub-section, because the use must be laid down so that only licensed of explosive-powered tools has recently become people may use it. And that is what the Bill quite extensive. Their correct use is of very seeks to do. great importance. Previous Governments had The other day I promised to give hon. no occasion to regulate their use because, as members a technical definition of a crane I say, they have only recently been accepted into normal building practice. chaser and I shall do so now. A crane chaser is a person who attends an overhead Since the Act came under my administra­ travelling crane. He follows the load of the tion-that is, within the last 12 months­ crane and is at all times on the floor of the numerous representations have been made to workshop or factory. His job is to super­ me by the Building Workers' Industrial vise the safe slinging or fixing of the load Union and the Trades and Labour Council on the hook of the crane. Hundreds of for the taking of legislative action on the overhead cranes are used but because of their use of explosive-powered tools. An explosive­ limited capacity and intermittent use, many powered tool is a powder-powered tool and would not require a permanent certificated fires blank cartridges. It is used to fire crane chaser. Some overhead cranes, such as a steel projectile with a sharpened point one at the Doboy powerhouse have a capa­ through steel plate up to and including three­ city of 120 tons. In many cttses the loads quarters of an inch in thickness. Many non­ are lifted over the heads of workmen in the fatal accidents have been caused by its use, workshop or factory and I believe, and the :'nd legislation similar to this has already been officers of my department believe, that in the mtroduced in New South Wales and Victoria. interest of industrial safety the men respon­ The Government recognise the desirability of sible for doing the job should prove by controlling their use and, as can be seen, passing an examination that they have the action is being taken in that direction. As knowledge to determine the size of rope or a result of this, definitions of ''explosive­ other tackle to be used and to use it in the powered tool'' and ''projectile'' are being safest possible way. included in Section 3. 1Ur. Power: Are you going to require It will be seen that virtually all the amend­ them to hold a certificate~ ments proposed in the measure are concerned with protecting workers who are engaged in )Ir. )I ORRIS: Yes. I said that when I activities covered by this Act. introduced the Bill. The measure is in accordance with the :ilir. Power: I was not here then. policy of the present Government to give workers in all ca!lings every possible protec­ lUr. )I ORRIS: Although there are not tion and safeguard when performing their man:· accidents from this type of equipment, work. The Government firmlv belieYe that it is possible that the crane chaser does not workers should be able to work in congenial know, or has not proved that he knows, the conditions with the minimum risk of injury, importance of the size, strength ancl quality ~nd that the protection of the lives, physical of the rope ancl that his ignorance will fitness and well-being of workers in employ­ endanger the lives of his fellow workers. ment is an essential consideration of primary On Thmsday I spoke of the work being and paramount importance. I:Vorkers geii­ done bv :\-fr. l\IcDonnell of the industTial crally can rest assured that it is the intention safety ~ection of the department and I told Inspection of Scaffolding [4 NOVEMBER.j Acts Amendment Bill. 973 bon. members that we have circulated stick strictly to the reasons for the amend­ throughout Queensland in factories and else­ ment to the.law rather than attempt to make where many signs and posters. I have some cheap political propaganda. He told the samples with me. I said, too, that we have Committee that he wished to make a histori­ had requests from all over Australia for cal survey but his subsequent remarks con­ samples of the posters. It is believed that veyed that he was more concerned about they are contributing very greatly to making political capital because he said- industrial safety. " I should like to say that for years the In the three years preceding 30 June, members of the Country and Liberal 1957, time lost through industrial accidents Parties when in Opposition viewed with rose steeply but, because of the safety some concern the general subject of measures being pursued so vigorously by the industrial safety. \Ve were deeply con­ officers of the department, not merely has scious of the wide suffering caused by there been a cessation in that steep rise but industrial accidents . . . The inaction of actually in the year ended 30 June, 1958, our predecessors in this field must. lead one there has been a reduction of 47,910 man­ to the inescapable conclusion that thev hours so lost. were little concprned with the problem.;, I have brought along three of the posters It would be hard to imagine more monu­ because I thought hon. members might be mental nonsense than that observation when interested in them. For the information of we realise the tremendous fight Labour had hon. members I also have a copy of the to put up over the years to get reasonable Foreman's Safety Handbook, a publication working conditions and safe industrial prac­ issued by the Industrial Safety Advisory tices to protect men in industry. Sel'Vice. It is a handy little guide both to JUr, ll!orris: According to the figures employers and employees, indeed a helpful they were not very effective. little handbook on industrial safety. I table the three posters and the handbook. ~Ir. DUGGAN: I shall have something to say about that in a few minutes. The (Whereupon the hon. gentleman laid the Labour movement, both political and indus­ posters and handbook on the table.) trial, will be completely behind the hon. ~Ir, IUORRIS: I have given a full gentleman if he is sincere in his efforts for coverage of this important measure. greater industrial safety. We would not want Throughout the world Queensland is recog­ to score any political capital by adopting nised as having a healthy climate. It is impor­ that attitude. When for purposes of purely tant that the Government should assist indus­ political propaganda, he completely discredited try in Queensland in every practical way to everything that Labour has done he invited make this the safest State in which to work. retaliation. I am delighted to know that employers and Mr. lliorris: I do not mind that. employees generally are becoming very con­ scious of the need for industrial safety, as ~Ir, DUGGAN: The hon. gentleman does I am delighted to pay tribute to the officers not mind that. I do not mind either, as long of my department who are working so con­ as the hon. gentleman does not put himself stantly and assiduously and with such keen and his Party on a pedestal and make out interest in this field. I commend the Bill to that they are the only people interested in the Committee. the preservation of safety. It is time that }fr. DUGGAN (North Toowoomba­ we took the hon. gentleman to task. If it Leader of the Opposition) (11.27 a.m.): I were not for the Labour Party and the indus­ think hon. members who approach the Bill trial movement there would have been little objectively will regret the fact that the action taken to carry out safety practices. Minister in his introductory remarks last llir. Morris interjected. Thursday did not mention the purpose behind the amendment to the law. On that iUr. DUGGAN: A 1909 report to the occasion for almost an hour we listened to Chief Inspector before Labour came into the Minister introducing this Bill which he power, said- described as an extremely important '' The Act, when first put in operation, measure. When he commenced in those was very much opposed and criticised, and terms hon. members could have expected him was thought to be a very harsh measure to give the committee reasons for the intro­ and would be the means of stopping indus­ duction of the Bill. But instead of out­ try and blocking enterprise, and virtually lining dispassionately and objectively the kill the Northern mining fields; however, merits of the proposed legislation the after the Act had been in operation a few Minister attempted to make political capital months the feeling generally improved, and out of the Bill with the excuse of making a it was' general comment: 'Pity it was not historical survey of the incidence of indus­ in force 10 years ago, as much valuable trial accidents 'in Queensland and Australia machinery might have been saved.' '' generally. For a considerable time he There was no mention of valuable lives; the engaged in a party political debate. If the main point was that so much valuable Minister wishes to introduce desirable machinery might have been saved. measures-in this instance the measure is desirable-it is a pity that he would not llfr. }J orris interjected. 974 Inspection of Scaffolding [ASSEMBLY.] Acts Amendment Bill.

Mr. DUGGAN: The hon. gentleman has In each of the annual reports of the Chief already had an hour and 10 minutes in which Inspector of Machinery he has mentioned the to speak; I have only 25 minutes. He assistance fJ;om the legislation and the benefit spent one and a-half hours in engaging that accrued as a result of steps taken by in political propaganda. Let us find out what successive Labour Governments in this matter. he said when he was a member of the Opposi­ The history of industrial activity in this tion. How sincere was he then~ He had State which has been studied by men like the quite a lot to say when he was a member of late hon. member for Rockhampton, Mr. the Opposition. Perhaps he has forgotten Larcombe who was regarded as one of our what he said on previous occasions when a Labour historians, reveals. the di~culties Labour Government brought down legislation experienced over the years m protectmg the to amend these Acts. I shall refresh his rights of workers in industry, how the memory. When the 1951 amending Bill pro­ Workers' Compensation Act had to be intro­ viding for additional safeguards was before duced and amended from time to time by Parliament, the hon. gentleman said-on Labour Governments to provide adequate the Second Reading debate-- compensation for victims of industrial acci­ "I have no objection to the Bill . . • dents. In many instances, before Labour and every hon. member will be quite happy administrations introduced these reforms, the to co-operate with the Minister in endeav­ cost of litigation and the technical _and other ouring to secure the greater safety of the difficulties in the path of the claimant for workers and the people.'' compensation were such that the person That is what he said in 1951, but last Thurs­ surrendered his right to compensation rather day he said that our predecessors had no than subject himself to the hazard of costly thought about these matters at all. If hon. litigation. members _want really fulsome praise of the Labour Governments gave jurisdiction to Labour Government for the amending legis­ the Magistrates Court, so that these matt~~s lation designed to secure greater safety for could be determined cheaply and expediti­ workers they will find it in this concluding ously. It is quite wrong for the Minister to paragraph of the hon. gentleman's speech on pose as the sole champion in this field. that occasion. It appears at page 577 of "Hansard" Vol. 201 and reads as follows- Quite frankly, I think the Bill ~s very good and very desirable. I support It but as I " Recapitulating my observations, I think told the Minister when I assumed the office the Bill is a very good one, and with the of Leader of the Opposition and outlined the exception of one or two machinery faults attitude of Opposition members, if these that could, with some !liscussion, be cleaned measures are introduced in a straightforward up, it is a very fine one and one of which way, he will get the support of ~he Opposi­ all will be proud, as it will help towards the tion and a full measure of praise for the safety of people engaged in the building legi~lation, but I am not going to sit idl_Y .by industry.'' when an attempt is made to create an opimon Yet on Thursday, for the purpose of cheap in the public mind that this Government are political propaganda he said that our pre­ the only Government concerned about indus­ decessors were not concerned about these trial conditions and so on. safety measures. During the same debate the hon. gentleman's leader, now the Premier, On the Minister's own admission, many made the following statement- measures introduced even this session have been the result of evidence prepared for '' As the hon. members for Mt. Coot-tha presentation here by a previous Labour and Sherwood have said this Bill in the administration. That acknowledgment has main is a desirable one, as it deals particu­ been made by the Minister and other members larly with safety precautions that are of the Cabinet. necessary in the use of scaffolding. It brings up to date the present Inspection of JUr. 1\'Iorris: Not in regard to this Bill. Scaffolding Acts. This Bill should prevent as far as pos­ JUr. DUGGAN: No, but the Minister has sible nasty and fatal accidents, which can made that admission about other Bills. occur as a result of lack of proper pre­ Mr. Morris: Yes, the Hide, Skin and cautions. Wool Dealers' Bill. We agree with the principles of the Bill, which are designed to tighten up safety Mr. DUGGAN: Even on that Bill the regulations in order to protect persons who Minister tried to gull the Opposition into are compelled to use scaffolding in the supporting it, on the basis that it was model­ course of their employment.'' led on the New South Wales Act. When During the discussion on the 1955 amend­ dealing with another Bill recen.tly, however, ment, the Premier said at page 880 of '' Han­ the Minister said he was not gomg to follow sard" Vol. 211- slavishly New South Wales legislation. The ,' The Bill will accord a greater measure Minister makes a particular speech on one of safety to the persons concerned . . . The occasion, and an entirely different speech new powers will be in the interests of covering the same principle on a subseq_uent administration and will make for better and occasion. We must keep track of these thmgs, safer scaffolding.'' to understand where the Minister is going. Inspection of Scaffolding [4 NovEMBER.] Acts Amendment Bill. 975

We are very pleased that the Government t!1an through industrial disputes. Here we are conscious of the need for such legislation. have the economic angle-the loss of produc­ In the past there has not always been the tion to the employer-as the primary con­ same recognition by Government members. sideration, but I remind hon. members that They claim to represent big business, and they we do not have workers killed or permanently do represent big business. Those people are disabled by industrial disputes. more concerned with the safety of machinery and investment than the safety of their Speaking of the "hidden costs" of indus­ employees. trial accidents, the writer of the article went on to quote the singularly callous con­ Mr. McDonnell 's name has been mentioned clusions of an American expert who, under by the Minister. I have not had the pleasure 11 headings, listed factors in hidden accident of close association with him. I have spoken costs. Among these were-Cost of time lost to him once or twice over the telephone by foremen, supervisors and executives assist­ and I have had occasion to deal with his ing injured workmen, and breaking in a department. From my inquiries, I believe replacement for him. Fancy putting that he is a very good officer. I share the forward! Fancy objecting to the time lost Minister's view of his work and enthusiasm by a foreman to go to the assistance of the for the achievements he is setting out to man injured as the result of an industrial accomplish. I hope they will be realised accident! And another heading was the during his period of office. But there cost of time lost by other employees who was a deal of evidence building up on stop work out of curiosity or sympathy to the need for corrective measures to be taken help the injured employee. Another reason in this :field not only in Queensland but also was the incidental costs caused by inter­ in other States where Liberal-Country Party ference with production. In many of these Governments have been in power. I shall deal matters the prime consideration of many more fully with that at a later stage. How­ employers and many agencies is not so much ever, in an article in "The Courier-Mail" on the humanitarian approach but an approach April 14 this year, staff reporter John Hay motivated by savings in costs to the employer. reported an interview with Mr. McDonnell on I think that that is an entirely wrong the progress of the Safety Advisory Service, approach. and he gave a verbatim report of this state­ ment by Mr. McDonnell- The Minister is not the only one who can " Number One point in this business is to use the research facilities available to him convince employers that safety means through his officers in the way of recording money. So far I've had 100 per cent. the number of days lost through industrial co-operation from employers.'' disputes and accidents. Mr. Holt, in the Federal Parliament, had some interesting He gave emphasis to the money aspect, and things to say on the same problem as recently did not express any concern about the safety as 24 September this year. He pointed out of human lives. No emphasis was given to that Australia loses :five times as many work­ the plight of a person who loses a limb, is ing days from industrial accidents as from maimed, or who suffers permanent impairment industrial disputes and that each year some of health; the emphasis is on the ma.tter of 400 Australian workers are killed at their money. We should stress this phase very work through accidents; at least 3,500 more strongly. are maimed. He said that compensation is Mr. liorris: You are. paid for something like 350,000 injuries which keep people away from work for a day or lir. DUGGAN: I am entitled to do so, longer; that we forgo the equivalent of because the Minister shed a great many 17,000 man days of work in each calendar crocodile tears on the need to protect those year as the result of industrial accidents; engaged in industry, when in actual fact the in workers' compensation premiums industry basis is made clear and supported by his pays more than £29,000,000 a year. He said chief executive officer, that it should be that safety measures had caused reductions approved if it can be demonstrated that in accidents and disease-loss rates. Before money will be saved. giving the reductions, let me say that this is common in every State in the Common­ }Ir. llorris: Non sense! wealth. The survey shows- l\Ir. DUGGAN: I am quoting from the Automotive Plant-Down by 97 per cent. report, and the Minister cannot contradict it. in 8 years. If the Minister will give me one hour and Oil refinery-Down by 94 per cent. in ten minutes I will be able to deal with the matter fully, too. 7 years. Food Factory-Down by 92 per cent. in The particular newspaper article to which 4 years. I have referred shows that amongst other things industrial accidei1ts are costing P'aper Mill-Down by 54 per cent. in Queensland £22,000,000 every year. It was 3 years. the economic impact of industrial accidents Chemical works-Down by 79 per cent in with which the newspaper was mainly con­ 11 years. cerned. It accentuated the fact that eight times Steel works-Down by 71 per cent in more working time was lost through accidents 9 years. 976 Inspection of Scaffolding [ASSEMBLY.] Acts Amendment Bill.

'l'his is a problem recognised by all Govern­ Hon. W. POWER (Baroona) (11.48 ments. We realise, too, that it is very neces­ a.m.): Unfortunately, I was not present sary and proper that adequate steps should when the Bill was introduced last week as 1 be taken to see that the hazards in industry was attending a meeting associated with a are reduced as far as possible. It has to youth movement. I regret that the Minis­ be borne in mind that there has been a ter, when bringing in legislation that will tremendous development in industry and undoubtedly give some real benefit to workers hazards occur despite industrial education in industry, has tried to belittle what was which is going on through advisory services. done by previous Labour Governments for The unions have also taken the matter up. the protection of workers. It has always Other employees realise the need for care. In been Labour's policy to protect the lives many ways there are avenues of greater risk and safety of people who are engaged in today because of the modern plant in opera­ industry as far as it is hhmanly possible. At tion. The number of injuries is likely to the same time, it was always their desire not increase greatly where work is done around to impose undue hardship on those responsible fast-moving and belt-driven machinery, and for the conduct of industry. where there is concentration of a great deal of The previous speaker referred to commen­ power. dation by the Minister of legisl1ttion that I We of the Opposition frankly admit that introduced in 1951. I point out that no we are glad that the Bill has been intro­ Minister can possibly know the requirements duced to improve safety measures in indus­ of every department under his control. A try. Not only from the point of view of Minister is not a jack of all trades, and he economy in industry, which is extremely must be guided by the officials in the vari­ important, but also from. the humanitarian ous departments and sub-departments. Every­ side, there is every justification for the intro­ thing that has been done in the administra­ duction of measures that have as their object tion of the Sub-Department of Machinery and the lessening of hazards in industry gener­ Scaffolding has been the result of advice ally. Everything possible should be done received from the various officers controlling by the introduction of strict measures, by it. The man who is at present administering the proper training of workers and by the it ha~ paid a good deal of attention to the strict examination of all types of machinery protection of workers, especially those who and equipment, such as explosive hammers, use machinery. When I was Minister I did used in mod ern methods of construction. not always agree with him; but I believe in Modern equipment is necessary in the inter­ giving credit where it is due and I know that ests of quicker and cheaper construction, but he is doing an excellent job now. At the we must see that it is not introduced at the same time, it is unfair of the Minister to expense of human life and safety. try to belittle what was done by previous Labour Governments. We on this side are pleased to see a tight­ ening up wherever it is necessary. In con­ lUr. Hanlon: Wouldn't it be true to say trast with its attitude towards the measure that much of the ground work for the Bill that I criticised the other day, the trade was done by the late Mr. Devries in the last union movement is in full agreement with 12 months of his administration~ this and similar measures. If the Minister goes through his '~ecords, he will find that lUr. POWER: That is the information I on occasions they have sought the right to have been given. I cannot see any objection to the Bill. institute prosecutions for breaches of various regulations and have agreed to hand over to lUr. lllorris: What was the information the Crown any fines that might be imposed. you were given~ I do not know if that request has been lUr. POWER: That the late Mr. Devries acceded to, but the trade union movement is had the matter in hand before he died. eager to have every possible safeguard embodied in legislation. Mr. Morris: Now that you raise it, I will read the files to you. From the beginning it was the Labour Party that introduced many safety measures lUr. POWER: I do not care what the into its legislation. We bow to nobody in Minister reads; that is the information that our desire to see that legislative control is has been conveyed to me. Any measure vested in the Government through their brought forward for the protection of indus­ Executive in an effort to ensure that indus­ trial workers will have my support. But the trial hazards are reduced to the absolute Minister is not consistent in his attitude. minimum. When dealing with this Bill he referred to I regret that the Minister did not start similar legislation in New South Wales, but his speech in the way that he ended it. If when we pointed out to him on another Bill he had set out his reasons for introducing that similar legislation was introduced in the measure, adequately and fairly in the New South Wales it did not suit him. It first place, I would have given him a full appears that he will use New South Wales measure of praise. My only criticism is that for comparison only when it suits him. I he tried to score some c,heap political propa­ should like to see a little more consistency ganda. instead of seeing that the measure was from him. introduced as soon as possible for the benefit I believe there should be some special of those engaged in industry. training for the workers affected by the Bill. Scaffolding, &c., Bill. [4 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 977

I am glad to know that they will be required like Townsville, Rockhampton and Cairns. If to be licensed. From my knowledge of the similar courses were available in other parts department, acquired through administering of the State there would be a much better­ it for three years, I know there are many chance of sufficient licensed scaffolders­ clangers in industry. being available. I am told that on 90 per The crane-chaser is to have a certificate. cent. of the building jobs in North Queens­ Did the Minister discuss the proposed amend­ land no licensed scaffolders are employed. In ment with the unions, and what is their most instances the carpenters on the job erect the seaffolding. The unions insist that where attitude W This may not be a Bill to deal with crane-chasing but to deal with vote­ no licensed scaffolder or scaffolding inspector catching by the Minister and those behind is available, the carpenters on the job must him. erect the scaffolding in the interests of safety. I have said that I will support anything to My information is that accidents from improve the position but the Minister should faulty scaffolding are becoming more numer­ go further and protect all those engaged in ous. They increased by over 300 per cent. industry. I understand the Building between 1950-51 and 1957-58. Changed ·workers' Union and other unions have building construction methods are probably sought to have the wearing of steel helmets largely the cause. We are moving away from made compulsory to protect the heads of timber construction to brick, steel and con­ workers. I suggest the Minister might con­ crete work. Many more multi-storey build­ sider that. ings are being erected. There is no doubt that with the construction of multi-storey ~Ir. Wallace: It is compulsory in New buildings accidents must become more preva­ South Wales. lent and more serious.

~Ir. POWER: The hon. member for ~Ir. Knox: Why do you say that? Cairns informs me that it is compulsory in New South Wales. As the Minister has used lllr. WALLACE: I make that statement New South Wales for comparison, he might on the advice of building trades people and follow it in that respect, too. they are in a position to know and to advise. lUr. Knox: You mean the composition As a further indication of the need for helmets~ Steel would be very uncomfortable. more licensed scaffolders I point out to the Committee that an employee who is injured li'Ir. POWER: I am not worried about on scaffolding that has not been passed by a that. I want the Bill to go through before departmental inspector may lose or prejudice 12 o'clock because I would like to read it. his rights to damages. And I say that in all I will not spend much more time discussing it. sincerity. An aooiclent occurred at the I do not know its full contents as I was Townsville powerhouse. A man was working not here when it was introduced, but I sug­ on scaffolding that had not been passed by gest that the Minister consider a provision an inspector and when he claimed compensa­ to make it mandatory for workers to be tion or damages the judgment said he was provided with steel helmets for their protec­ guilty of contributory negligence in that he tion. went onto a faulty scaffolding. Because the scaffolding had not been passed by a scaf­ llr. WALLACE (Cairns) (11.54 a.m.): folding inspector or had not been erected by Unfortunately I was not able to be present a licensed scaffolcler, he had no right to go last week when the Minister introduced the Bill. The matter has been dealt with fully onto it. but I want to raise one or two points. The Progress reported Bill provides for the protection of workers so far as it goes. There is provision for pro­ At 12 noon, in accordance with Standing tection in it; but we think it >Cannot be Order No. 307, the House went into Commit­ thoroughly administered because there are tee of Supply. not enough licensed scaffolders to do the work. There are not nearly enough scaffolders SUPPLY. throughout the Sate. My information comes from the trade unions, mainly from workers RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE-ESTIMATES­ in the building trade. There are not nearly SEVENTH AND EIGHTH ALLOTTED DAYS. enough licensed scaffolding inspectors (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Taylor, throughout the State. I am told the shortage Clayfielcl, in the chair.) is caused through anomalies in remuneration. To obtain a license a man must complete 12 ESTIMATES-IN-CHIEF, 1958-1959. months' study at the Central Technical DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HOME AFFAIRS. College. This course has been in operation CHIEF Ol!'FICE. for about two years. Students become expert in knot-tying, splicing, rigging, erection of Hon. H. W. NOBLE (Yeronga-Minister all types of scaffolding, and stresses and :for Health and Home Affairs) (12.1 p.m.): strains-parti!Cularly in materials used, steel I move-- and wire rope. Such a scheme of education '' T.hat £808,350 be granted for 'Depart­ is very good but it would be more effective ment of Health and Home Affairs-Chief if it could be extended to big centres Office'.'' - 978 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

At the outset, I wish to say that I regret The main items responsible :for the increase very much that the report of the Health and in the Vote are indicative of the fact that Medical Services was not in the hands of the department is required to and does move hon. members before this morning. We with the times in providing a modern and endeavoured to have the report down earlier, up-to-date service over a very wide field. but Dr. Fryberg had been overseas so long, and he wanted to go through the report in The largest single item is £40,000 for the detail before it was printed. That is why additional costs of compulsory X-rays in the it was late. We had it ready on Thursday anti-tuberculosis campaign. The suggestion of last, but not in time to have it tabled in compulsory chest X-rays has been received very the House. I am sorry that it was not avail­ well, although a section of the community has able sooner. been very vociferous in protesting against compulsory X-rays. No-one, and this could be Since I assumed this office I have appreci­ said of me, likes compulsion of any sort, but ated the work of all my officers, both laymen on the whole this scheme has been very well and professional. There are some people in received. Similar protests were voiced when the community who speak disparagingly of immunisation was first mooted in this State, the Public Service, but that has never been and in other States and countries in the world. my attitude. I have a very great respect for Today there are no protests against immunisa­ the members of this very fine Service. It is tion and the great value of that practice is not possible to speak individually of all of recognised. them, but I do pay a tribute to the work of the Under Secretary, Mr. McOormack, a most It was some time before I consented to efficient officer. After seeing his work and compulsory chest X-rays in the anti-tuber­ comparing it with the work of officers in culosis campaign. From the time I was other States, I am convinced that he ranks appointed to this portfolio the Federal as the best hospital administrator in Aus­ Director of the campaign, a very capable and tralia. I speak highly too of my Director­ notable medical man stressed the need for General, Dr. Fryberg, and his assistant, Dr. compulsory X-rays in this State, as in other Johnson. I could go through the department States, except Victoria, but I had to be con­ complimenting the different officers on their vinced that it was quite necessary. It is very good work. I thank them all and I pay only two or three months since the need :for a tribute to them for their good work in it became completely apparent to me. A the interests of the State. I wish to say a survey of school children leaving school, after word of praise for my private secretary and being Mantoux tested, revealed that a very his assistant and typists for their loyalty and high percentage of the children were positive. their hard work which relieves the Minister In the Far North 60 per cent. of the school of much of his burden. children leaving school were positive to the Mantoux test. In Brisbane the percentage This appropriation is an increase of was 25 per cent. positive compared with £113,484 on the appropriation for 1957-1958, 5 per cent. in Victoria. and an increase of £161,983 on the amount expended in that year. The increase of This result showed that either these £161,983 comprises £61,882 for salaries and children had at one time been subject to £100,101 for .contingencies. The Vote covers infection with tuberculosis, or that there was two separate and distinct services-the some other bacteria of a type similar to the administrative section of the department and bacteria of tuberculosis, which could possibly the medical section. The medical section bring about the same reacfion. I examined itself covers distinct and separate entities in the matter very closely and was assured by the tuberculosis section, the laboratory of the medical authorities that there was no micro-biology, enthetic diseases section, the bacteria known which could have brought Government Analyst, and State school health about the same positive reaction shown by services. The increase in salaries is £13,513 these children. We are not convinced that :for the general administrative section, and that is so and at the present time research £48,369 :for the medical services section. is being undertaken to discover if there is some endemic bacteria which will bring about These increases are due mainly to- a positive Mantoux reaction. However, in (a) provisiOn :for additional appoint­ view of the fact that these children were ments in the Health and Medical Mantoux positive we could not take the risk Section, Laboratory of Microbiology of allowing people who may possibly have and Government Chemical Labora: tubercular inJ'ection to move around the State tory; and infect other people. It was for this reason that we approved compulsory chest (b) :full year's provision :for increased X-rays. In the North there is a higher pro­ payment to officers of the Admini­ portion of Mantoux positive cases. There strative Section following reorganisa­ may be a basis for that. A person can have tion, and :full year's provision :for latent T.B. Numbers of New Australians increased salaries of Medical Officers may have had tuberculosis in their own and other senior officers, granted countries. Although they have been cleared :from 2 December, 1957; by X-ray, they may have latent tuberculosis. (c) adjustments consequent on basic When subject to a hot tropical climate such wage variations. as in North Queensland, there is a tendency Supply. [4 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 979 for this germ to develop into an active germ An increase of £19,500 is involved by the from a latent germ, and it is possible that in Salk vaccination campaign of the age groups the many New Australians in the North there between 16 and 44 years. This campaign is may be some sort of pool of tubercular cases going very well. In Queensland we have had which has to be discovered and treated in the highest number of volunteers of all t~e hospital annexes. States. The average number of volunteers IS between 60 and 70 per cent. in the parts of the Mr. Duggan: Can you offer any expla­ State where the campaign is under way. I nation why England believes in education recommend that all people in the areas where rather than compulsion~ the teams are operating go along to be vacci­ nated. There was an outbreak of poliomye­ Dr. NOBLE: It is recognised thaJ litis at Singapore. Last week I saw a Press England is four years behi~d Australia ai;d report whic,h indicated that there were 34 America in the fight agamst tuberculosis. cases of poliomyelitis in Melbourne. I had In Australia we have a death rate of about Dr. Jolmson ring through to Melbourne to 6.1 per 100,000 population as against 10.6 .in ask about the types of cases and what type England. It is considered that the. service of people were affected. It was found that in England does not compare With the of the 34, 32 had not been vaccinated­ efficiency of the service out here. I pay a only two had been vaccinated. It was very tribute to Sir Harry Wunderley who was the doubtful whether they had poliomyelitis or first man to think of combating tuberculosis. not. There is great value in Salk vaccina­ If it had not been for him we would not tion in the fight against poliomyelitis, and I have had the wonderful service we have recommend to everyone within the age group today. Because of the work being done it .is of 16 years and 44 years to become vacci­ hoped that within th.e next 10 years. we will nated when the service becomes available. win the fight agamst tuberculosis. We I should like to say that the vaccination should strain every effort to discover those service would have proceeded faster but for who are positive so that they might be the limitation in the amount of vaccine avail­ brought along for treatment. There is no able. Because of the previous low injection hardship involved because of the adequate rate in the South where they were vaccinat­ pension provided by the Commonwealth ing only those in the 20-year age group we Government. were able to get extra vaccine. That works If a man is to receive treatment he knows out at about 60,000 doses a month. I that his family will be cared for. ~ .say strongly recommend all people in the districts again that it is the duty of ev~ry CI~I~en where the teams are working to take advan­ to take all steps to find out who IS positive. tage of the service now being given by my I am sure that the people of this State con­ department. We are very hopeful that Salk sider that to be their duty. In one week vaccine will be the answer to the present outside the City Hall 6,113 Brisbane citizens poliomyelitis epidemic in Melbourne. had chest X-rays by the mobile clinic placed The two amounts of £40,000 and £19,500 there during Health Week. that I have referred to are recoverable, the expenditure on the anti-tuberculosis campaign, JUr. Walsh: Why is the percentage so from the Commonwealth Government and the high in Queensland in children as compared cost of adult Salk vaccination campaign by with the other States~ the very reasonable charge of 2s. per injec­ tion. I do not think anyone would complain Dr. NOBLE: There are two possible answers: One is that we have a higher pool about having to pay 2s. for an injection and the other is that there may be some that will give him immunity from this dread bacteria which is not known at the present disease. time. An increase of approximately £5,000 under the heading of ''Industrial Hygiene'' covers An Opposition ]'!ember: You referred an amount of £3,000 for the medical protec­ to the high incidence in England. Would tion of people exposed to radio-activity. This economy have anything to do with thaU expenditure is required for the necessary expense that it is estimated will be incurred Dr. NOBLE: I think economy plays a this year for the protection of workers in very big part as it does in all the backward countries of the world ·with all these diseases. the uranium industry. The balance of In England the standard of living has £2,000 is required to meet the department's improved over the last few years. share of the cost of an air pollution survey in Brisbane, which is the first step towards JUr. Duggan: What is the relative per­ overcoming air pollution and smog caused centage in adults~ by the increasing industrialisation of the city and its suburbs. Dr. NOBLE: I cannot tell the hon. The development of the uranium deposits gentleman that. of Mary Kathleen makes it necessary that :rtir. Duggan: There is not the same the Government Analyst have the latest disparity. equipment for the analyses of uranium-bearing ores, and an amount £1,200 is provided for Dr. NOBLE: I shall find out the figures the purchase of apparatus for this purpose. and inform the hon. gentleman later. All the workers in the Mary Kathleen area 9!!0 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

have been supplied with check badges, and it ~onveyed the impression to me that he felt has been ascertained that no industrial msecure, and that as he left us he was danger arises there from radiation. The going back into the darkness of insecurity. badges are sent down to Brisbane and examined here and so far no case has been The first step we intend to take to over­ discovered where radiation has reached any­ come the problem is to see to it that every where near danger level. It is a common young medical officer in a country hospital is belief that all uranium is radio-active. As brought down to the base hospital once in a matter of fact, you can swallow it and it every 18 months and given further post­ will not do you any harm. There is no graduate basic training. Secondly, as was radio-activity in uranium, and the workers indicated in this morning's ''Courier­ at Mary Kathleen are completely safe from Mail,'' we will have in the first instance radiation. one flying surgeon with a surgical team of sisters and modern equipment. The air pollution survey in Brisbane is He will be based at Longreach and very important. There has been a good deal will go round to all the small hospitals of talk in the Press recently about smog in at regular intervals to confer with the young Brisbane, and we are in agreement with doctors. He will be on hand at any time and much of what has been said. After we have available for any emergency and he will see made a complete survey, we hope to intro­ that the people of the far flung parts of duce legislation that will prevent air pollution the State are well served medically. by new factories, and over a period of time we hope to catch up with those already in lUr. Walsh: Having given them all that operation. training you will lose them to social services, Repatriation, Workers' Compensation, The wide field covered by the Government Medical Benefits, and so on. Analyst in his assistance to industry and his protection of the public is also indicated Dr. NOBLE: They must be trained. by the fact that a further £2,000 is provided They cannot be left untrained. And we for that section for a new and up-to-date cannot be selfish. As long as they carry textile testing machine. out the terms of their scholarship and serve This State, in common with all other States the State for the seven years required, they in the Commonwealth, continues to experience are justified in taking advantage of all that considerable difficulty in getting doctors and we can give them to equip themselves to dentists for service, particularly in the more the utmost. remote parts of the State. There has been in existence a fellowship scheme under which JUr. W aflsh: It would be better to retain their services. the Department of Health and Home Affairs pays the university fees, plus a living allow­ Dr. NOBLE: It is no use having any ance of undergraduates studying to qualify medical men in the State who are not capable as doctors or dentists. It has been found of doing a good job. It is up to the State that the maximum benefit was not being to see that every man practising is capable obtained because students who failed in one of giving good medical service to the people. of their years or through ill-health or for That is the Government's objective and it some other reason were forced to should be the objective of any government abandon the course were not replaced. Whilst alert to the needs of the health of the com­ the intake of first-year students was kept munity. With the help of the flying surgeon, up to the maximum, the number of fellow­ young doctors will be able to keep up with ship holders qualifying fell below that their surgery and will feel secure and so we number. To correct the position, it has been will be able to keep them in the country decided that where a fellowship holder drops towns. out during the course of his studies, the balance of the fellowship shall be offered to JUr. Hilton: Will their training include a student in the same year. Vacancies anything in radiology~ amounting to ten were filled this year, making necessary an increased provision of £8,500. Dr. NOBLE: I did not intend to touch on the subject at this stage and I will not There is at present a shortage of doctors talk on it at length now but the Govern­ and dentists throughout the State. In the ment are aware of the shortage of main, fellowship ·holders have been sent to psychiatrists and pathologists and it is their the small one-man hospitals. As I went round intention to set up fellowships for the train­ the State I became aware that these young ing of senior men to provide a pool to staff people were suffering from a sense of institutions. We are working out the terms insecurity. They were removed from any of those fellowships and we are confident that form of help, and if they were faced with they will be sought after. The doctors will a medical or surgical emergency they felt work over a period of years for their higher unable to cope with it. For example at Julia degrees. Moreover, with the better conditions Creek I met a young man who I am sure we are introducing and the better super­ will do well in the profession. He came annuation, we will be able to keep the men down to the coach to say goodbye to us, in the service. They will find it a very and as he walked away into the darkness interesting life with a wealth of material I felt extremely sorry for him. His attitude on hand for them to carry on their practice. Supply. [4 NovEMBER.] Supply. 981

Increased provisions are being made for the stock of what has been achieved lest we Queensland Health Education Council and the become discouraged by over-emphasis of what Queensland Institute of Medical Research. yet has to be done. A glance at the component Votes of the In Queensland a great deal has been department gives a picture of the many and achieved; for example, the people in Torres varied fields that are covered. There is, how­ Strait enjoy a large measure of self­ ever, a common thread to be discerned, that government in local affairs; many have accu­ is, that the activities of each section are mulated a deal of wealth. Both by the nature >Concerned directly with the everyday life of their islands and by inclination, they have of the people. In many instances always looked to the waters of Torres Strait the activities are directed to the relief and to supply them with the means of existence. improvement of those sections of the They are at the present time dependent >Community that are subject to some disability economically, almost entirely, on pearl and of health or circumstance. trochus shell. We recognise, however, that with the development of plastics it is pos­ While I do not propose to speak at length sible that the market for these products could

failed to live up to what was expected of them investigation is at present proceeding. The in achieving increased production. I would Commonwealth Department of Trade has been point out for the information of hon. mem­ asked to advise on the market potential of bers that these operatives were selected by beche-de-mer in the eastern countries. The the master pearlers, and brought to Torres Fisheries Department has also been asked Strait at their expense. They were also that investigations, in conjunction with the required by the Commonwealth Government C.S.I.R.O., be extended to include the possi­ to guarantee their repatriation in the event bilities of the use of the pearling luggers of their employment being discontinued. It in tuna or other fishing. We were also told was in all respects an undertaking by the that there was an unlimited supply of cray­ master pearlers. Were the undertaking suc­ fish, for which there is a market in the cessful, they would have benefited financially; United States and Australia. The Torres in the event of its failure they carried the Strait Islanders are a vigorous and intelligent loss. people who are proud of their race, and are lUr. A. Jones: Apparently they were no not anxious for wholesale assimilation. They better than the islanders. are even now a vital self-supporting unit in our Queensland community. The mainland Dr. NOBLE: They were not as good. aboriginal constitutes the more involved They did not have the least idea. They were problem. They have become detribalised in used to diving in the still waters at Okinawa, the main, and to a large extent have lost whereas there are very strong currents in their native arts and cultures. Direct assimi­ the Torres Strait. They tell me that you lation into the everyday life of the commun­ do not just see the shell sticking there. It ity must be the solution of their problem. is necessary to observe the action of the waters round the shell deposits. These chaps A great deal of progress has already been had no idea. made to this end. Of a total population of full-blood and part-blood aboriginals in this The Islanders stood to benefit by the terms State of 37,400, 20,300 are outside the control imposed by the Queensland Government if of the Department of Native Affairs, and the Ryukyuans lived up to expectations of have already been assimilated in the commun­ them. Conditions laid down that for every ity, compared with 17,000 still under controL Ryukyuan employed on a pearler 's boat a The policy is, that protection and help of aH Tones Strait Islander had to be employed, kinds be given to the controlled aboriginal;, and that the Islanders were to be tutored. on Government settlements and mission The experiment appears to have failed, but stations until they are prepared for, and wil­ at no cost to the Islanders. It is still most ling to take, their place in the community. desirable that the Islanders be given tuition It is accepted that it is a major step, bring­ in deeper diving and action is already being ing with it trials and disappointments, for a taken to implement a plan whereby some very person who has enjoyed all his life the pro­ skilled and successful Islanders become the tection and guidance of sympathetic officers tutors. A recommendation to this effect was of the Native Affairs Department, to estab­ included in the report by the Parliamentary lish himself in the white community. All Party Committee, but it is felt that it may be preferable for the skilled divers to For this reason, I feel that the establish­ tutor other Islanders while the skilled men ment of the hostel for Protected Aboriginals are working on their own boats, rather than at Aitkenvale, Townsville, is a major step to detach them from their boats. towards the assimilation of young aboriginals into the community. I mentioned previously it is recognised that there is a possibility that the market for Here, young aboriginals will find a home, shell could disappear and that it is necessary with sympathetic and kindly assistance, while that the possibilities of establishing other they undergo training as apprentices, to fit avenues of employment for the Islanders be them into the community as fully-trained thoroughly investigated. Already the Com­ tradesmen. monwealth Government have been requested Approaches have been made to employers in to investigate the pearl shell industry in Aus­ Townsville to take suitable young men from tralia, with a view to determining, among Palm Island as apprentices, with a deal of other things- success. ( a) the best action to be taken for its This establishment could well be the first retention; of a series which will provide the spring­ (b) a more satisfactory system of board or taking-off place from which great marketing in Australia and overseas; numbers of young coloured people are (c) the extent to which secondary indus­ launched into a full and successful life in tries operative, or to be established in the community. The solution lies in the Australia, could assist in absorbing some education of the children of protected of the produce. aboriginals. The department is giving serious It has also been directed that an immediate consideration to the subject, in order to investigation be made into the possibility of ensure that every child is properly and fully establishing secondary industries in Queens­ educated. It is only in recent years, the last land to absorb at least, portion of the pearl two years, that a full course of education shell produced at Thursday Island. This such as in our primary schools has been Supply. [4 NovEMBER.] Supply. 983

available for aboriginal children. Previously I sent my Director-General of Health over­ the course was modified. I am told by our seas to study at first-hand modern techniques education authorities that we may need a in this field. different approach to the education of our I am pleased to say that a leading worker native people. That too will be considered. in geriatrics from England, Dr. Marjory If a child is capable of secondary education, Warren, is at present in Queensland to the opportunity will be given to, him. At lecture and advise on this problem. present 16 native children are boarding at secondary schools, and two are at the teachers' From day to day the number of ambulatory training college. A month or so ago I heard inmates in our Eventides is decreasing, whilst a broadcast by ''Monitor'' from the the number of bed cases is increasing. As Cherbourg Settlement. He was interviewing a matter of fact, of the 900-odd inmates two school children of about 15 years. He at "Eventide", Sandgate, 425 are hospital said to one of the children, ''What. are you patients. That position is not good enough. going to be~'' She said, ''A nurse. As soon With proper care and attention we should be as I get through the Junior, I am going able to get these people up so that they can nursing.'' He said to the other child, ''What lead the lives of happy old people. It is my are you going to be W" This girl said, "A earnest hope that we will be able, not only stenographer. I am training now, and as to arrest this trend, but to succeed in saving soon as I get through my Junior I will be the majority of old folk who come under employed in some office as a stenographer.'' our care from becoming bedfast, as well as There is great hope of successful assimilation enabling many who are now confined to bed of our coloured people through the education to enjoy once again the power of mobility. of the children. With modern developments our "Even­ I\Ir. Wallace: Are the two students at tides'' are therefore becoming more and the Teachers' Training College full-blood more geriatric hospitals, and as such will aboriginals W take their place in the overall hospital picture. Dr. NOBLE: One is from Carmel Of the total sum of £14,985,171, required College in Charters Towers. I met the other for all the activities under the control of the lad when I went to Palm Island. He had department, £8,837,748 is for hospitals. This been in the primary school and had taken is a very large sum, and I feel certain that his Junior. I said, ''Are you satisfied to stay hon. members will agree that it is necessary, here~" He did not have much thought on in the interests of all the people in this the matter, but, when I told him the pos­ State, that every effort should be made to sibilities if he was prepared to leave Palm ensure that whilst modern and efficient Island and attend the training college, he service is given to all patients, a strict, said he would like to go there, so arrange­ careful watch must be maintained over all ments were made to enrol him at the college expen

Dr. NOBLE: Southport. It is to be :ur. Da•-ies: Could you give us some remembered that it take~ from three to five idea of the services that you are cutting out P years to plan a hospital. In the case of Southport it was proposed to construct a new Dr. NOBLE: It is difficult to explain general hospital for £450,000 but we are such matters in a debate in the Chamber. providing the same number of beds and However, if the hon. member will come to my administrative buildings at an estimated cost office I shall be happy to show him the blue­ of £230,000. The Surat hospital was burnt prints and explain what is being done. down and plans were drawn to spend £160,000 on a 16-bed hospital. That figure lUr. Gardner: Is the same architect was cut to £71,010 for a brick hospital and doing the job? for a wooden building it would cost £63,191. We have adopted the figure for the brick Dr. NOBLE: Yes. Most hospitals boards building as it will be more lasting. Plans have their own architects. for nurses' quarters at Bowen were estimated Another very important factor is wise plan­ to cost £20,975 but we have been able to cut ning to obviate the construction of more that figure down to £9,550, a saving of hospital beds than are actually required. In £11,425. Plans for the building of the this connection, it is pertinent to point out Toowoomba nurses' home to accommodate that the period of time from the original 100 nurses were to cost £286,000, an decision to construct a hospital till it is ready average of £2,800 to provide the quarters for for use ranges from three to five years. As each nurse. I said to the architect, "You a result, careful examination and estimation are asking us to provide £2,800 for virtually of the circumstances that will prevail on a room for each nurse, whereas most people the completion of the building are required in the community can get a cottage for the before a decision is arrived at. same amount. It seems wrong that each nurse should have £2,800 spent on her accom­ On the occasion of the recent opening of modation.'' We are going to erect a three­ a new hospital, I pointed out that the stage story brick building which will provide excel­ is being reached where the construction of lent accommodation including every possible new public bed accommodation is no longer conveNience for £152,000, thus saving required. Hon. members opposite endeavoured £134,000. to read into that that it was the intention of the Government to depart from the free 1Ir. Duggan: Would that be done by hospital policy. Nothing could be further improvements in planning? from the truth! Again I take the opportunity of stating Dr. NOBLE: We will be cutting out a our policy on hospitalisation. It is this: Free lot of the unnecessary things. Recently I public hospital beds will be provided for all had an interview with a leading man from our sick people who desire to use them, and the Ministry of Health overseas who told there is no intention whatever to restrict or me that the same position obtained abroad. reduce the number of free public beds with He told me that had they gone on building the object of forcing people to enter inter­ the way they were, they would have gone bankrupt. mediate or private beds. At the same time, >Ye recognise that no Government have either 1Ir. Duggan: Is there any merit in the a legal or moral right to exert pressure of any proposal to give some of the nurses a liying­ kind on anyone to enter a public bed against out allowance so that they can proYide for his wish, and, as with public beds, no restric­ their own accommodation~ tion will be placed on the number of inter­ mediate and private beds for the purpose of Dr. NOBLE: I do not think it would be forcing people who do not desire to do so satisfactory for trainee nurses. They must to use public beds. be supervised. There is a tendency in other An examination of the hospital bed figures parts of the world today to have the sisters in this State shows that the number of beds, living out. In England, for example, where excluding chronic and T.B. beds, in relation conditions are somewhat different from those to population, is 8.6 per 1,000. That is much in Australia because of the larger centres of higher than the bed ratio that is deemed population, no sisters' homes are to be built necessary, on present-day standards, in any in future. They will live out. It is better part of the world. This is borne out. by for the sisters, too, because it gives them a practical experience, as in very many hosp1tals freer and happier life. That may come about in this State the number of available beds in Queensland; sisters will have the right to exceeds the demand for them. live out and will be paid an allowance. I point out to hon. members that an estil;1a­ 3Ir. Hanlon: You will give them the tion of the hospital beds per 1,000 populatwn option f takes no heed of whether they are private, intermediate, or public beds. It is based Dr. NOBLE: Yes, the same as domes­ simply on the number of sick and injured tics. The previous Government said that people in the community requiring hospitalisa­ domestics in hospitals should live out, and we tion. It is readily accepted that an overall have conti1med the practice. Most of them figure can hide various local shortages, and are much happier living in their own homes. an excess of overall beds does not mean that Supply. [4 NOVEMBER.] Supply.

there are not some individual towns or dis­ clear that any slight overcrowding still exist­ tricts where additional construction is ing in Brisbane hospitals will be completely required. overcome when the hospitals I have mentioned The figure of 8.6 beds per 1,000 for the are completed. State includes not only Government hospitals Again, the average length of stay in hos­ but also hospitals privately owned and con­ pital is affected to a large degree by chronic· trolled. patients who occupy beds continuously over a very long period. I have already laid down A further factor is that, with present-day advances in drugs and meclkal techniques, a policy of providing suitable wards or annexes at hospitals for these long-stay the number of beds required to serve any given population is constantly reducing. patients. They do not require the costly equipment and construction necessary for The whole hospital picture has changed. I acute hospitals. Most comfortable accommo­ can remember, when I was first studying dation can be provided for this type of case medicine, that in the medical wards of hospi­ at a fraction of the cost of accommodation tals by far the greater number of patients for acutely ill patients and, what is more, were young or middle-aged, Pneumonia and these old folk will be more comfortable and acute illnesses were prevalent and were more contented in a section of the hospital treated in the hospitals; these clays pneu­ that belongs to them than in a busy acute monia rarely is. Even Dr. Evatt is being ward where seriously ill patients require treated in a hotel room in Melbourne. There special attention. The provision of this is no need to put such cases in hospital be­ accommodation will make available more beds cause, with modern drugs and modern tech­ in acute wards. niques, patients can be well and quickly As the eventide homes are tending to treated in their own homes. become closer to the general hospitals, so are Today most of the patients in medical the mental hospitals. After the war, mental wards are old people. Only the other day hospitals throughout the world became seri­ at Ipswich I saw a whole ward full of old ously overcrowded, largely because of senile people. It is the intention of the Govern­ old people who could not be accommodated in ment, instead of having eventide homes and the already overcrowded acute hospitals. Un­ the like scattered all over the place, to have fortunately, in very many cases these patients a geriatric ward in every hospital so that were doomed to end their lives in mental the aged, if they have to be hospitalised, can hospitals, not because they were suffering be cared for in their own district. vV e are from any mental illness or disease but simply now conducting a survey to find out how because there was nowhere else for them to many old people we have in hospitals and go. The construction of senile annexes we will shortly take the steps I have indicated. attached to general hospitals in Queensland has gone a long way towards righting the One of the most important factors govern­ position. Already 404 old people have been ing the number of beds required is the transferred from the Brisbane Mental Hos­ average length of stay in hospital. For pital to these annexes. Action is already example, a reduction of the average length of being taken for the construction or conver­ stay from four weeks to two weeks would sion of buildings to provide a further 30(} reduce the number of beds required by beds for these patients at general hospitals. approximately half. Westwood Sanatorium will probably become vacant early in January when the Common­ My statement that there was an excess of public beds was made at the opening of a wealth tuberculosis annex is completed at the· Brisbane hospital and was intended primarily Rockhampton Hospital. We will convert it to an old people's annexe and it should have' for consideration by hospital authorities in Brisbane. The ratio of existing hospital room for from 75 to 100 patients. beds in Brisbane, again excluding tubercu­ The old nurses' quarters in Townsville· losis and chronic beds, is 8. 7 per 1,000, and are being considered for conversion into a the ratio of public beds is 6.2 per 1,000; in 100-bed long-stay hospital. Why a two­ other words, approximately two out of three storey hospital was built at Emerald I shall of all beds are free public beds. In addition, never know. There was already a good 820 new beds in hospitals under construction, hospital there. A small hospital built in two or about to be constructed, must be added storevs is bad economically because services to the Brisbane total. Of these, 17 4 are out­ have· to be duplicated. We are hoping to side Brisbane but in districts previously provi(le additional accommodation for aged served by Brisbane hospitals; 404 are in the people in the old hospital. Throughout the new Chest Hospital at Chermside, but, on State more than 350 additional beds will be the experience of other States, it can be con­ available in geriatric wards. fidently expected that this hospital will l\Ir. A. Jones: You still have about become available as a general hospital in the 2,300 inmates in Goodna. not too distant future. It would be sheer folly, if not worse, to disregard these facts Dr. NOBLE: The numbers are getting and figures and to embark on new construc­ fewer. The old people are going out. The tion in addition to that in progress or about provision of the buildings on the hill was to be commenced. It must be abundantly very wise. One building is being used for· 986 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

kiddies-a very happy place-and the other Senile annexes-receipts for 12 months houses patients who are well enough to run as compared with seven months for 1957- their own committees and arrange what work 1958. they shall do. They even produce their own The increase in patients' fees represents newspaper. It is an open ward where they fees for an increase of approximately 70 are free to come and go. As these patients in the daily average of intermediate and become fit to leave they will either go to private beds over the State. This increa~e their own homes, the homes of relatives, or is mainly in Brisbane. Hon. members wrll to a rehabilitation centre we hope to have remember that because of the severe over­ completed at Sandgate this year to accom­ crowding at the Brisbane General Hospital modate 40-odd patients. it was not possible for the authorities there to provide more than a token number of ~Ir. Hanlon: Has the over-crowding intermediate beds. As a result many people been eased at all~ who desired intermediate accommodation were unable to obtain it and 1vere for-ced into free Dr. NOBLE: Yes. It is not the same place. It used to break one's heart when public beds. he went up there. More buildings are avail­ JUr. Davies: Did that happen in any able now. About 250 patients can be accom­ other- hospital in the State~ modated on the hill. Getting the old people out helped a great deal. The objective of Dr. NOBLE: There would be one or mental treatment is to cure people before two throughout the State. Most hospitals have they need enter a mental hospital. plenty of beds. Lowson House at the Brisbane General Jlir. Davies: I was referring to the Hospital has been converted to a nerve people who were forced into public beds. hospital for early treatment of si~kness that would previously have meant that the patient Dr. NOBLE: Toowoomba and Mackay would be later admitted to a mental hospital. are over-cr-owded and Townsville was, but Treatment and accommodation in Lowson not now. House are available free of charge. In other As hon. member-s also know patients in States it would cost all patients £15 a week intermediate beds engage the doctor of their or more for this treatment in similar choice and this is one of the reasons why a l10spitals. numb~r of people seek intermediate accommo­ These achievements, together with con­ dation. It is nice to have a doctor of your struction of mental hospitals, have practically own choice. You can ask how your relative overcome the overcrowding. In the very is and if he is not doing well you can tick near future sufficient accommodation will be him off if you wish. In the General Hospi­ available in mental hospitals for more tal it is only at certain hours that you can visitors' and patients' lounges and other see the patient. desirable amenities. Queensland, alone Jlir. Davies: That benefit has been lost among the Australian States, is in this happy to a great degree where they have groups. position. Dr. NOBLE: It is to a great extent. I am pleased and proud to report to the They can still go to the clinic and tell the Committee that the first Alcoholic Residential doctor what they think if they desire. Clinic is now in operation at the Brisbane General Hospital, providing a service that When the new South Brisbane Hospital has long been needed. Dr. 0 'Sullivan and was completed, it was progressively opened, the other medical officers are doing a mighty as it was not humanly possible to staff and job. open a new hospital of 750 beds in any other way. Beds were allotted between intermedi­ lUr. Wallace: Does the clinic cater for ate and public in accordance with the demand. males or females~ The last three wards will be opened this financial year and it will be the first year Dr. NOBLE: Both. I am looking when all beds have been occupied. The round now for a building as a rehabilitation increase in fees from private doctors' .centre for female patients. Probably 12 or patients referred for :x;_-ray or pathological 15 beds would be sufficient. I was recently investigation, is attributable to the large asked by way of a question in the House to number of these cases now being given atten­ explain the reason for the increased receipts tion. Receipts of patients' fees from. senile by hospitals last year and the estimate for annexes is explained by an anomaly that this year, and I deferred my answer so that would otherwise arise. The Commonwealth it could be dealt with now. For the hon. Government, under its social services legisla­ member's information, and for the informa­ tion, make provision for an amoun~ . deter­ tion of the House, the increase of £72,000 mined by the Commonwealth authontres, to €Stimated for this financial year is made up be deducted from the pension of inmates by increases under the following headings:- accommodated in old peoples' homes. This Patients 's fees. amount is the same for every old peoples' X-ray fees for private doctors' patients. home throughout Australia. It is purely an Pathological fees for private doctors' accident of circumstances that decides whether patients. old people find themselves admitted to the Supply. [4 NovEMBER.] Supply. 987

hospital ward of an eventide, or the senile parties in this country and in other parts of annexes that have been established at hospi­ the world haYe been forced to come into line tals. It would be unjust therefore, if a deduc­ with the thought of the Australian Labour tion were m.ade from the pension of the Party and Labour parties throughout the inmates of eventide, and no deductions made world. from inmates in senile annexes. To rectify Without trying to score politically, it is this it was decided that the same amount obvious from '' Hansard'' reports through­ would be charged to old folk in senile annexeR out the years and from statements outside as is paid from their pensions in old peoples' this Chamber, that many of the services pro­ homes. There is no question of any hardship vided by the department when instituted were being imposed thereby on patients in senile bitterly opposed by hon. members opposite. annexes. They .have all been transferred The Australian Labour Party can be par­ from mental hospitals where they received no doned if it is over-suspicious that the Govern­ pension at all; now they rank for pension, ment, with their past history and the past the balance of which is credited to their trust history of others of the same parties, will account. At Eventide, any balance of pension attempt to break down the standard of ser­ not used goes to the trust account and over vice given by the department. the years the trust account has been getting higher, with a consequent reduction in the The cost of hospitalisation and the build­ pension, and the Commonwealth are paying ing of hospitals has been raised by the Minis­ less and less. I see no harm whatever in ter. If he can bring about economies in the treating senile and old patients on the same construction of hospitals without in any way basis. I am. pleased to be able to report reducing the quality of the free service to that major steps have been taken in the last patients, he will be commended, but we were 12 months to help lighten the burden on the a little disappointed at the rather offhand less fortunate members of our community, and manner in which he brushed aside the several to foreshadow that the social services pro­ interjections by the hon. member for Mary­ vided for Queensland people by my depart­ borough. The .hon. member for Maryborough ment will not only be continued this year, asked why a hospital can now be built for but that further major achievements can £150,000 instead of £300,000 and still provide confidently be expected. the same quality of service. I know that the Minister is trying to interject that On behalf of my Government, I shall spare he indicated that the hon. member no effort to implement our policy to provide for l'lfaryborough could have a look at the a better and more efficient service towards the blueprints to study the question closer. I restoration to full life of those who have hope the same privilege will be extended to the misfortune to be afflicted physically or all on this side of the Chamber. He is mentally, or who are under any disability rather vague when he is not able to give a the relief of whieh. comes within the scope better reason why plans of huilclings can of the activities of my department. be prepared by the same architect for huilc1- Mr. HANLON (Ithaca) (2.21 p.m.): This ings at a greatly reduced cost and yet provide is a very important department, which the same services. It makes one wonder what has been referred to as the Department of the architects have been doing. If they can Humanity. I do not suppose any department prepare plans of buildings to cost much less provides greater service, numerically or in and still give the same services I am sure quality, for the citizens of the State than the previous Government would have been only the Department of Health and Home Affairs. too happy to have had the work done cheaper. It is closer to the ordinary person in the I do not think the ehange has been brought community in my opinion than any other about by any change in Government. Previ­ department. ous Governments endeavoured to get the best possible results from the operations of the It was refreshing to hear the Minister department. The Minister made a very good supporting the activities of his department. I am sure hon. members join with him in expres­ point when he said that the system of free sing appreciation of the manner in which hospitalisation for w.hich this State is famous his officers attend to their duties, and to costs a huge sum of money. If we want to carry out fully the various services for the keep up the standard of service to the people benefit of the people. we have to ensure that we do not waste money. We are susp1c10us, nevertheless, The Minister protested, a little too much, when we hear the Minister tell us that he can in regard to questions asked from this side cut hundreds of thousands of pounds off the of the Chamber. Opposition members, as cost of hospital building, and according to well as the public, still have a measure of him, suffer no loss in quality. doubt whether the Minister, or the parties to which he belongs and which form Dr. Noble: They will be better. the Government, are really enamoured of the Mr. HANLON: I shall be happy to see services provided by the department over the blueprints the Minister is talking about. recent years. We of the Labour Movement I cannot see .how it can be brought about. have always thought that the pro­ Possibly the Minister has been helped because vision of social services in health and in other all the main cities in the S'tate are now pro­ directions are fundamental in any demo­ vided with the more expensive type of hospi­ cratic country which accepts the responsi­ tal. We have them at Townsville, the South bility of looking after its citizens. The other Brisbane Hospital-- 988 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Dr. Noble: We would never have built Mr. Dewar: Who said that? the South Brisbane Hospital. Mr. HANLON: You did. ~Ir. HANLON: I hope we will not find lUr. Dewar: I did? hon. members on this side in another 20 years rising and quoting '' Hansard'' to show JUr. HANLON: The hon. member's col­ how we would never .have had the South Bris­ leagues said it in this very Chamber. Mem­ bane Hospital when the need for it is never bers of the parties who are now sitting on greater than it is today if it were not for the the other side of the Chamber said 30 years Labour Government. There was some ago that any dirty old blankets and cracked doubt expressed when a :Cab01ar Government crockery were good enough for non-paying wanted to build the Story Bridge. It was patients. That is not the philosophy that said by those who opposed us that it would put hospital administration in this State in be a white elephant, that it was too big and the proud position that it occupies today. too expensive, that Brisbane was only a hick In the days that I am referring to notices town. The Australian Labour Party Govern­ were hung on the beds of non-paying patients ment never approached any form of admini­ in general hospitals to show that they were stration on such a timid basis as that. By paupers and could not afford to pay their saving himself £50,000 today the Minister way. I do not think that even hon. members might find he is costing himself another opposite desire a return to those practices, £1,000,000 in 20 years' time. I_t is not new but there are forces within the Liberal and to hear that the Government wrsh to decen­ Country Parties that are unwilling to spend tralise the hospital system and provide the millions of pounds necessary to maintain smaller hospital units in various parts of the hospital services that were established by Brisbane and the South Coast area. If hon. Labour. As a matter of fact, the Menzies members go back to the pre-war years they Federal Govermnent embarked on a deliberate will find that plans were adopted then to attempt to break down this State's free hos­ cater for the building of the auxiliary Hospi­ pitalisation system. It was only because of tal at South Brisbane and smaller units at the stand that was taken by the Labour Redcliffe·, Wynnum, Southport, and l)th?r Government of the day that free hospitalisa­ places. 'l'he hon. member for Southport tion was maintained in Queensland. remarked that the Southport Hospital is being built 20 years too late. That might l;>e true. Mr. Dewar: We are spending more this It has to be borne in mind that the war upset year than you ever spent. all plans for the development of hospitals in this State. If one goes back to the original Mr. HANLON: The hon. member for planning before the war I think one would Chermside throws up his hands and says, find that provision was made, first of all, for "We are spending more this year than you the General Hospital at Herston to be a truly ever spent.'' Probably that is because of base hospital with all equipment and facilities the inflationary trend that followed the advent that could not be provided in a number of of the Menzies Government in 1949 and the small hospitals sea ttered round Brisbane. deliberate policy of his. Governm.ent in th.is Surely the Minister would not say that equip­ State that has resulted m severe mcreases m ment such as that at the Brisbane General the basic wage and in the cost of provisions Hospital should be scattered round among and other necessaries to hospitals and other various small, cottage hospitals in the vicin­ similar institutions. As I pointed out during ity of Brisbane or even up to 50 or 60 miles the Budget debate, the Government are spend­ away from Brisbane. ing only about £150,000 more this year on a net basis on hospitals than was spent last Dr. Noble: You must have one base year. hospital. Mr. Pizzey: The people are healthier under our administration. Mr. HANLON: That is so. You must have somewhere to install expensive equip­ ~Ir. HANLON: All I can say to that ment and to treat critical cases that cannot interjection is that there will be an epidemic be handled at the smaller hospitals. We have of Labour voting on 22 November next. no argument against the gradual improve­ ment of hospital services in towns such as As I have pointed out, according to the Southport and Redcliffe. It was just unfor­ figures O:li page 20 of the Estimates, there tunate that World War II. prevented the was a net expenditure on hospitals last year hospital development in those areas that of £6,351,672. Subtracting Commonwealth Labour had planned. We do not want a contributions for hospital benefits, pharma­ return to the philosophy of hon. members ceutical benefits and for the maintenance of opposite in the administration of the Depart­ tuberculosis sanatoria and the like from this ment of Health and Home Affairs, particu­ year's expenditure gives the net expenditure larly in hospital services. 'We do not want by the State Government on hospitals as to go back to the days when they said, ''Any­ £6,512,000, which is not very much more than thing is good enough for non-paying the net expenditure last year. patients.'' Such a philosophy is absolutely W-e have to remember, too, that this year condemned by hon. members on this side of we will completely exhaust the Hospital, the Chamber. Motherhood and Child Welfare Fund. That Supply. (4 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 989

ccalls for consideration. Each year for the year the appropriation was not used up last five or six years or more we have drawn because the department always likes to be £300,000 or £40.0,000, or perhaps £200,000 or on the safe side and make sure that it has £300,000, from the accumulated balance in enough for provisions. If the Government that fund and this year >Ye will use the whole say that they are being on the safe side this ineome plus all that remains of the accumu­ year in appropriating £992,000-odd against lated balance of about £600,000. £1,005,000 last year, the Minister must admit Dr. Nob le: That is because of the policy that apparently they are going to spend less of becoming a claimant State. on provisions for patients in hospitals this year than last year. l'\Ir. HANLON: That is so. The Treasurer has already pointed out that he is deliberately 1Ur. Dewar: People went into hospital doing that to support his application to the to get a decent feed under Labour. Commonwealth. But what are we going to lUr. HANLON: The hon. member prob­ do next yead Suppose the Commonwealth ably would do well to go in and have a bit of do not approve of our becoming a claimant treatment himself. I would not like to indicate State. Vv e have no balance in the fund. what hospital I would send him to. However Where will we get the £500,000 or more that he has brought a point to my mind. The we have yearly put into hospital expenditure hon. member for Kedron who unfortunately from that fund~ It is causing us consider­ is not able to be here today asked the Minister able concern because money cannot be pro­ a question a couple of weeks ago about the ·duced out of thin air. I hope the Minister proposed inc;rease in patients' payments in the has got enough from Consolidated Revenue next 12 months. He wanted to know why this year to make sure that his colleagues will there was going to be an increase of £20,000- not deny him his next year's requirement odd in patients' payments. The Minister simply because he did not want it this year. told him that he was going to deal fully with Last year £1,005,000 was set aside for that when his Estimates were being debated. provisions in hospitals and this year the He has pointed out that there will be addi­ estimate is for £992,000. That does not read tional payments from the setting up of very well. We all agree that the costs of annexes for aged people in hospitals, and so everything have risen in the State, especially on. That is something we were not aware of in the last six months or so, and they will and consequently had not taken into con­ be higher this year than last financial year, sideration. Nevertheless there is a suspicion yet there is a decrease of something like in the minds of many people that hospital £13,000 in the appropriation for provisions. wards are being deliberately closed, particu­ Admittedly the expenditure was only about larly in the Brisbane General Hospital, to £961,000 so there will be an actual rise of make way for intermediate and private-paying about £30,000 if the full appropriation is patients. expended. I should like the Minister to Dr. Noble: Tell me one case where a explain why the full allocation for provisions patient has been refused admission to a public was not used last year and why the increase is comparatively small for next year. ward~ I think it was the hon. member for Port :ilir. HANLON: I have not a case in Curtis who alleged a month or so ago in the mind. I do not say that anyone. has been Chamber that the Minister had suggested to refused admission to a public ward but if that hospitals boards throughout the State that policy is to be maintained, in a few years' they reduce the quality of provisions bought time people will not be able to enter public for hospitals, that they use cheaper cuts of wards at the Brisbane General Hospital. meat and so on. Perhaps they will be admitted but they will be admitted under conditions which should Dr. Noble: What sort of cuts of meat not be imposed, taking into account the would you advise~ increased accommodation that has become lUr. HANLON: I do not know. I am available since the opening of the hospital simply telling the Minister that the hon. at South Brisbane and will become available member for Port Curtis said in the Chamber as other public hospitals are opened in the recently that it had been suggested to future. hospital boards that they buy cheaper cuts A couple of weeks ago I directed a question of meats for patients. That was ridiculed to the Minister about conditions in wards at the time but it may be borne out by the like 3E at the Brisbane General Hospital fact that in the last financial year some where beds are placed right up the middle £40,000 less was appropriated for provisions of the ward and far more patients are in hospitals and that this year's allocation crowded in than might reasonably be expected represents no very great rise. now that additional accommodation has been Dr. Noble: You always try to have provided at South Brisbane. I have ccome to sufficient moneys to meet the bills. If you the conclusion that the reason that more do not spend all your funds you are just space is not given to public patients in these being on the safe side. wards is that the Minister is definitely using up space that should be devoted to public :filr. HANLON: The Minister cannot have wards to provide accommodation for paying it both ways. He tells me that last financial patients. As he has pointed out, nobody is 990 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

compelled to enter a public ward if he does will be helpful. Members generally will deal not want to. Everybody should be free to with problems affecting their electorates. I go to his own doctor if he is prepared to shall refer to one or two matters that require pay for hospital accommodation. But there attention in my electorate. The Labour should be sufficient accommodation available Government neglected to provide a hospital for all who require free treatment. It is adequate for the needs of such an important not a good policy for the Minister to make industrial centre as Gordonvale. As far back a great song about people wanting to occupy as 1928 the late Hon. H. A. Bruce promised beds in the intermediate hospital or single the people that it would be provided. During rooms when these facilities are provided at the year 1955-1956 the public of Gordonvale almost bargain rates-about £2 2s. a day for became so incensed about it that they made a single room. a demand on the Premier of the day and the member for the district. A short time D.:r. Noble: Would you advocate putting after the Government built a very :fine these fees up~ maternity hospital of 10 beds which, I under­ Mr. HANLON: I am not prepared to stand, cost in the vicinity of £50,000. agree to a Government subsidy so that these ~Ir. Davies: What year? people should receive the very best in hospital accommodation in single rooms at the expense ~Ir. WATSON: It was opened recently. of people who cannot afford to pay at all. I agree with the Minister that much of the· That is what I am objecting to. If the money expended on the erection of large Government can provide the highest standards hospitals could have been spent with greater for public patients in public wards and still benefit to the people generally. find money to subsidise single rooms at £2 2s. Dr. N01ble: More hospitals. per day in general hospitals providing facili­ ties which would cost £30 or more a week in ~Ir. W ATSON: That is true. Although a private hospital, well and good. there is a very fine maternity hospital at Gordonyale, the ordinary hospital is what Dr. Noble: Do you think the fees are may be termed a ''dump.'' Patients are too low in the private and intermediate accommodated on the hot unceiled verandahs wards~ and there is no protection from flies and JUr. HANLON: I am not saying anything mosquitoes. I have previously made repre­ about the intermediate wards but I am saying sentations to the Minister regarding the that the Government should not deliberately matter and the Minister has told me that deprive public patients of adequate facilities finances are limited, but he has assured me because they want to give some of that that until a new hospital can be built, further accommodation to people who say that they accommodation will be provided by removing· are not taking advanta.ge of the facilities of the old maternity ward to a central position the Brisbane General hospital because they so as to link it with the general hospital. are occupying a private room at £2 2s. a day. For the time being that will do. Dr. Noble: There are very few private lUr. Davies: How far are you from rooms. Cairns~ Mr. W ATSON: Fourteen miles. ~Ir. HANLON: There are very few. I hope that the Government will not sacrifice lUr. Davies: A bitumen road. any amenity or benefit to the people in the public wards in order to more or less sub­ Mr. WATSON: That interjection is in sidise intermediate and private accommoda­ accord with Labour's policy of centralisa­ tion up to a much higher standard. tion, rather than decentralisation. When I made representations in 1950-1953 I was told Dr. Noble: Your suggestion is to put that Gordonvale was really only a catchment the fees up and get more money for the area to which invalids_ and patients could be public wards. attended to temporarily, before transfer to Cairns. I disagreed with that idea, but I I\Ir. HANLON: I am not saying that at approve of the Minister's statement in all. I am not going to be tricked into saying favour of decentralisation. It will have a things that the Minister wants me to say. very beneficial effect in these towns. I do not want the Government to subsidise intermediate wards or private rooms and at Gordonvale is an industrial centre where the same time deprive public patients of a over 1,000 men are employed. The policy of reasonable standard of comfort as they should taking an accident case a distance of 14 have and was provided for by Labour miles to Cairns is undesirable. I ask the Governments. Minister to give early and favourable con­ sideration to my suggestion. (Time expired.) During my. recent visit to the Gordonvale Mr. WATSON (Mulgrave) (2.46 p.m.) : hospital I was informed that the daily aver­ I thank the Minister for giving the Com­ age of patients was 25. The matron mittee the opportunity of discussing this all­ assures me that she has difficulty in retaining important department which is nearer to the nurses and sisters to look after this number people than any other. During the debate of patients, as they have to work long hours he will hear much constructive criticism that to do so. I ask the Minister to consider that Supply. [4 NoVEMBER.] Supply. 991 position too. If the facts are as stated by the department, but the last report of the Queens­ matron, I ask him to consider favourably an land Institute of Medical Research has this increase in the number of nurses and sisters to say- at that hospital. '' An important duty of a Research Insti­ The Tablelands, within my electorate, tute is to discover and train young research has no hospital. Patients have to travel workers. At the present time, the number from Millaa Millaa and Malanda to the of young workers employed by the Insti­ Atherton Central Hospital. I am not tute is declining, and no suitable people asking for the impossible, but I have have applied to fill existing vacancies. There made representations to the Minister and I was formerly a training scheme, which was understand he is reonsidering either the setting sufficiently liberal to encourage young up of an ambulance centre at Malanda, or people to take it up and to foster continu­ better still, the stationing of a nurse at ing loyalty to the Institute after they .Malanda so that better service can be given to graduated. It is significant that 7 out of the residents. If that is done, they will not 10 students trained under this scheme are have to travel to Atherton daily as at still on the staff, whereas only one remains present. out of 9 appointed after graduation. The benefits are obvious, and it is urgently According to the last census, 1,500 people necessary that an effective training sreheme in Malanda and district rely for treatment be resumed, if the Institute is to survive on the hospital at Atherton. as an active research organisation.'' I have a further suggestion which I think The former Government, in the latter part .should be of material value. During my of their term of office, decided not to carry on recent inspection of the hospitals, I was with this scheme. The subject is important to told that a great deal of the repair and paint­ Queensland, particularly because of tropical ing of hospitals is left to the Department of diseases and it is necessary that the Minister Public Works. The central hospital is at should set up a scheme that will be a mone­ ·Cairns, and, with other hospitals at Gordon­ tary attraction to the graduate so that we vale and Babinda. I think the Minister should can get some value from his university edu­ have under his control a staff to carry out cation. I have had much to do with Weil's running repairs at the hospitals. disease and scrub typhus in the sugar industry. ~Ir. Wallace interjected. From the report-,- it seems a- good deal of attention has been given to these two dis­ ~Ir. WATSON: No. The things I have eases and to Q. fever. The number of suf­ mentioned took place before I entered Par­ ferers from these diseases is diminishing liament. I inquired from the matron about although there were 199 cases of Weil's a particular job and was told that the hos­ Disease in 1956, 197 in 1957 and 157 pital knew absolutely nothing about it. I in 1958. Although there has been a have been told by the Minister that most reduction in the number of cases we jobs of any size are now being done under .have yet to find a method of combating ·contra~t, with very beneficial results. the rodent that is responsible for spread of On behalf of the people of the North, I the diseases. I was determined in 1950-1953 .extend thanks to the Minister for the finan­ to see that an officer was stationed at Innis­ eial assistance given by his department in the fail but I found that the medical profession transport of patients to hospital for medical had not found any quick remedy for Weil's attention not available in their own area. disease, but now, I am pleased to say, that tho3e who contract the dreadful disease are I notice in the Estimates that for 1957- able to leave hospital in a few days. Formerly, 1958, rail passes granted by the department the heart was affected and in many cases they .cost £9,539, travelling expenses for radium were not able to work for months. A cure is treatment, £8,801, and further travelling not so difficult now. The rat is being con­ expenses, £3,277, when it was necessary to get trolled and in this respect we must pay a tri­ patients to Brisbane as quickly as possible bute to the various pest boards, and the by air. In all £22,933 was spent last year on health officers of the department, for the rail and air passes so that people could get work that has been done in North Queensland. treatment in Brisbane that was not available As most hon. members know, the disease is in the North. contracted from the excreta of the rat and I think I can speak for all hon. members so it is necessary in sugar areas, particularly who represent the North when I say that the north of Townsville, that the rat should be people are very appreciative of this assist­ destroyed. ance. Men employed in sugar mills have said An examination of the various reports dis­ quite openly that they would not be alive closes that burning the cane is giving excel­ today but for the quickness of the service lent results in the control of rodents. Of given by the department. I wish, on their the 157 cases in 1957 referred to in the behalf, to thank the Minister very much. report, 87 were contracted during the wet Between 1950 and 1953 when I was a period of the crushing season, that is, June, member of this ChamJler I had a good deal July and August. Irrespective of what we to say on the work of the Institute of Medi­ may do at that time of the year, there is eal Research. I now find that there has been always some difficulty in burning the cane. some improvement in the staffing of this Although the cane must be burnt before 992 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. it is harvested in an effort to prevent the add another home for the aged to the list, spread of Weil's Disease, because of the which at present is three-four when Mary­ damp climate there is still very great danger borough is finished. We think the North of coming into contact with the excreta of deserves one, but, as the Minister pointed: the rodent. It is interesting to learn that out, the buildings at Tinaroo Falls were of the 130,354 acres harvested last year in temporary and for a particular purpose,. the 11 mill areas affected, 128,369 acres were namely, for shifting and re-erection at the burnt. Of that area, 16,742 acres were termination of work on the dam .. burnt for the purpose of safeguarding the The Minister therefore considered that they cutters against Weil's Disease. were not suitable. The nearest eventide home we have in the North is at Charters Towers. I should like to pay a tribute to the work I gathered from the Minister's remarks of the officers of the department. In the today that there is a waiting list for admit­ 11 mill areas, 1,942 farms were inspected. In effect, that meant that 15,000 acres had to tance. I ask him to give consideration to­ establishing an eventide home further north. be patrolled by the departmental officers who, quite apart from the help that they are In most of the homes the aged are very giving to the farmers and the workers in happy if they are somewhere near a city.. other directions, are playing a very important They like to be able to go into town once part in controlling rodents. a week and have a drink or two and sit under the "tree of knowledge" for a chat. Very little was known of the scrub typhus before troops were stationed on reaches of ~Ir. Adair: Mareeba would be an ideai the Russell River during the war. Many of place. them contracted this dread disease, and a number of them died. I again pay a tribute 1Ur. W ATSON: From the point of view to the Innisfail laboratory for the very fine of health Yungaburra is the only place, but work it has done in controlling this disease. if the home is to give the best service to It is contracted from lice, which enter the the old people I suggest in all seriousness body through wounds. Previously it was a that the Cairns district would be very suitable. dangerous disease. I want to refer now to some of the Govern­ :llir. Aikens: It resulted in a 50 per cent. ment's subsidies that are perhaps not known to the general public. Last year subsidies kill, didn't it~ granted to .homes for aged persons outside the Mr. WATSON: Approximately. I extend department amounted to £388,216 lls. 11<1. sincere thanks to the department, and par­ ticularly to the research section in Innisfail, Dr. Noble: Where they are building those homes, with the number built, they will for a job well done. provide all the eventides we need. I have not a very great knowledge of Q Fever in the tropics, but I have read Mr. W ATSON: I agree, but we have not about it in the various reports. Whilst the been able to get one in the North. If they number of cases of this disease is not nearly are not going to help us we expect the as great as of Weil's Disease and scrub Government to do something about it. Top­ typhus, it is increasing. ping the list of homes granted a subsidy is the Salvation Army Eventide Home for men It is heartening to know that Dr. Derrick at Riverview, with £93,250. Others are- is playing an important part in preventing £ the spread of this disease. St. Vincent de Paul, Mackay 22,259 Presbyterian Cottage Homes, Dr. Noble: It is very easily cured. Corinda 45,243 ~Ir. W ATSON: I have been told that Aged Christians Home medicines of today will cure Q Fever. It Gregory Terrace . . 19,934 started in Brisbane in 1936, when it was Bethany Home, Rockhamp- called abattoir fever. Possibly at that time ton 29,035 the doctors thought that meatworkers were Methodist Garden Settle- contracting it through some process with m.ent, Chermside 53,671 which they were associated. Today, under The smaller homes have received smaller the direction of Dr. Derrick, whilst the spread amounts making up the total of £388,000. of the disease has not been limited, at least it can be controlled. It has spread thrcmgh­ In addition, the Minister has paid a 5(} out the continent. Queensland led the investi­ per cent. subsidy to local authorities who gations into its cause and cure and very great provide homes for the aged. In my elector­ credit must go to Dr. Derrick and his staff. ate, particularly at Yungaburra and I know that the people of the West will Malanda, I have inspected some of these join with those of the North in paying tribute beautiful homes. They cost £1,200 to £1,500 to the departmental officers for their grand and are suitable for married couples. They work on tropical and western diseases. are beautifully set up and electricity is The hon. member for Tablelands said in installed. I can assure hon. members that the the Chamber some time ago that it might 50 per cent. subsidy has been wisely spent. have been possible, on the completion of the The Country Women's Association comes Tinaroo Falls scheme, for the Minister to in for a £1 for £1 subsidy on the capita! Supply. [4 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 993

-cost of providing hospitals for waiting I should like to direct the main substance mothers in country areas-another very of my remarks to mental hygiene. I fre­ worth while objective. quently visit the mental hospital at Goodna which is in my electorate. It is certainly For State children from State organisa­ encouraging to see the effect the Minister's tions again a subsidy up to 50 per cent. is policy has already had on the institution. It paid. has been the concern of all Governments that The Flying Doctor Service, which is play­ people suffering from mental sickness should ing such an important role in the outback, receive adequate treatment and care. In the attracts a subsidy of 25s. for every £1 raised, past the idea has been rather to hide mental plus a special grant of £10,500 in 1956-1957 patients away. Most people are astounded .and a further £500 annually from the when they learn that there are over 2,000 ·workers' Compensation fund. people in the Goodna mental hospital. The Minister's policy will not only reduce the Ambulance Brigades receive a subsidy of numbers requiring admission but also lead to 10s. in the £1 with a special rate of 15s. in an improvement in the condition of the £1 for Cairns and Rockham.pton aerial ambu­ present inmates. lance services. Again the Government make a subsidy availa-ble on a £1 for £1 basis to One of the matters that received most the Mothercraft Association. The Spastic publicity was the re-organisation of the Children's League receives a £1 for £1 sub­ psychiatric unit at the hospital by establish· sidy, the Bush Children's Health Scheme a ing Lowson House for short-term cases. subsidy of 10s. in the £1 plus rail fares for These patients receive treatment in excellent children brought to Brisbane to receive medi­ surroundings. The unit is used as a day -cal, dental, or hospital treatment or brought hospital and it allows for the treatment of to the seaside ~ome to enjoy the benefits of people under conditions that were not avail­ the salt water. Last, but not least, a subsidy able 12 months ago. The other was the of 7s. 6d. in £1 is paid to the Surf Life planning of the psychiatric hospital for Saving Clubs. longer-term cases. This is a particularly important matter. Numbers of cases can be (Time expired.) cured after 12 months' treatment whereas in the past the patients were locked up for Mr. HERBERT (Sherwood) (3.11 p.m.): periods and a cure was delayed for years. I should -like to open my comments with a It is most desirable that these people should few remarks directed to cottage maternity be salvaged without certification. Once a hospitals, with particular reference to my person has been certified his recovery appears -own area. The ambulance brigade have made to be retarded. If they can have treatment plans for the construction of an ambulance in a psychiatric hospital without certification -centre at Oxhiy because of the huge amount they have a much better chance of again of work they are getting from the area. At taking their place in society, This plan to present a car is on the road almost full time establish a psychiatric clinic in more com­ running maternity cases from Inala and modious premises was long overdue. surrounding districts into the city. We have had a very encouraging report from the The plan laid down to expand child guidance Minister about hospital accommodation gener­ activities and for the teaching and training ally but I think we could well consider the of staff is very important, especially for establishment of a cottage maternity hospi­ country areas. The more trained staff there tal somewhere in the area adjacent to Inala are available the more chance of providing on the Brisbane-Ipswich line. Fortunately, a service for out-patient treatment for back· there are still some tracts of Crown land ward children in country areas. It is also available. I should like to see a move made proposed to provide a special clinic for in anticipation of the eventual construction adolescents, which is a positive contribution of a small cottage maternity hospital in the to the solution of some of our youth problems. area. Inala is a suburb of young families. The Parliamentary Youth Committee took Already 10,000 people live in the area. evidence on this point, and this clinic may Although it is within the city boundaries solve many of the problems now confronting Inala will eventually be one of the biggest us. What impresses a visitor to Goodna or towns in Queensland in its own right. The any other mental hospital is the number of establishment of a cottage maternity hospi­ people in these institutions who should not tal would have advantages not only to the be there. It is obvious, even to a visitor patients but also to visiting people. At the without medical knowledge1 that many: people present time people from Inala have to there, should not be there. The new policy travel by bus to the Darra railway station, instigated by the Minister is aimed at remov­ by train from Darra to the Valley, and by ing these people from mental hospitals. There tram to the hospital. It means that a father are the senile cases who have become depen­ has not sufficient time to get home from dent. The provision of the senile annexe work, pick up his children, and visit his wife in local hospitals removes one of in hospital in the time allowed for visiting. the biggest problems. It is not poss­ I do seriously suggest to the Minister that ible to see the young people in these steps be taken to provide at least a matern­ institutions without being moved. If anything ity .hospital somewhere in the Oxley area can be done to save these young people from before all the available land is occupied. mental hospitals it should be done, not only 994 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. for their sake but for the benefit of the outside psychiatrist, but at least they should community generally. Those who are sub­ be provided with accommodation of the very normal and who are capable of doing a best quality. routine job are assisted by organisations that are of comparatively recent growth. The It is useless merely to provide cottages at Sub-normal Children's Association is recog­ hospitals and expect first-class psychiatrists nised by the Government and receives a large to apply for positions there. The Govern­ subsidy. The work done by this association ment have to build really good homes and is of tremendous benefit to the community. look after them in order to encourage If they get the child at an early age there psychiatrists to work in these institutions. is the possibility of training it to at least I know the Minister is well aware of the prevent it from becoming a complete liability problem and has already taken steps to pro­ on social service. The child may be trained vide this accommodation at the Brisbane sufficiently to get some enjoyment out of life Mental Hospital. I commend him for his instead of leading a vegetable existence in a action. At the moment several first-class mental institution. The Sub-normal Children's homes are under construction. If they had Association is to be co;(lgratulated on the been built some years ago, we may have tremendous work it does in salvaging young been able to hold some of the medical lives. officers lost to the department, and may even have been able to attract others to the ser­ A further group of people who should be vice. We are fortunate in having some men confined elsewhere than in a mental hospital who have been prepared to carry on under is the alcoholic group, and people with other what might be considered adverse circum­ addictions. Fortunately we have not the drug stances and it now appears that they are tO< addiction of other countries, but we have the be rewarded with first-class housing. alcoholic problem, and it is now being tackled by the new General Hospital unit. I hope in The Government have overcome the peak time it will be possible to take advantage of overcrowding in mental hospitals, and will some of the overseas methods of combating continue to reduce the population of thooe· alcoholism, so that alcoholics may be treated institutions as the effects of the special ser­ as sick people rather than people who merely vices are felt. It follows that the patient­ have a weakness for drink. doctor or patient-nurse ratio will improve, if we hold our staff at the present level. That The last classification for which we must is the aim of the Government, because in provide institutional care c•mprises sex mental work more than in any other :field of offenders and criminal mentally sick. Those medical activity a close personal touch is people belong to a specialty of forensic required, as well as much time-consuming psychiatry. Special psychiatric facilities will work. Although in many cases that work be developed, in close co-operation with the may be non-productive, it is hopeless to treat Prison Department. In the past these people a mental patient merely by giving him a have been merely locked up, without any glass of physic twice a day. Over the past attempt at treatment of them. Although years Governments have been anxious to many of them can never be released, at least protect patients and the public and the trend they can be treated, and by that treatment has been towards a kindly but strict parental we may gain experience that will be of control. Many cases take months to regain assistance in the treatment of other cases stability and during this time they are cared that possibly have no criminal tendencies. for so that personalities are not dwarfed and initiative stunted. The new system In order to get the best treatment for being introduced by the Minister is a pro­ patients in mental hospitals, the Government gramme of rehabilitation to get people back have increased the medical and nursing into normal life. Special wards are being staffs. A nursing job at Goodna is not developed with graduating degrees of liberty eagerly sought after, but fortunately the until finally the patient :finds himself in a staff shortage seems to have been overcome. ward which is, in effect, a self-governing I impress on the Minister the importance of community. having good housing for medical staff. Psychiatrists are few and far between, and If somebody on the point of release from good psychiatrists are even further apart. a mental hospital is given a discharge and There are very few first-class psychiatrists shot out into the world very often the shock in Australia. A good psychiatrist in out­ is so great that he is back in the institution side practice can make considerably more in a couple of months and is there, perhaps, than he could in a mental institution, so it for ever. The new system of release by follows that the good doctors who have degree is important. remained in mental institutions have done so The William Powell Home which looked because they feel they have a mission to after discharged criminals later took in dis­ society. charged mental people but there was no real The Government have a duty to provide after-care to people discharged from mental those men with accommodation and salaries hospitals. I have had many instances in my comparable to those enjoyed by practitioners area because families have come to live in outside the service. I am not suggesting it to be near their folk in mental hospitals. that they should be given a tremendous The Government are now realising the par­ wage, in keeping with the earnings of an ticular neeil for looking after patients being Supply. (4 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 995

discharged from mental hospitals to ensure new units are in the course of construction. that they will not go back. If a man has At the Brisbane Mental Hospital a modern been for some years inside a mental institu­ ward has been occupied this year, and in tion, having every care taken of him, and all hospitals it is the aim to provide up-to­ is then thrown out into society where he has date domestic facilities, alt of which are to look after himself and take care of his important. money the shock is so great, particularly if A very important step that has been taken he is a border-line case, that he might come by the Government-and it is one that the back to hospital. The idea is to have a Minister is to be particularly commended on special officer and the patients will learn to -is the institution of a permanent chaplaincy live as we do. It is felt that many, if not service. For some unknown reason, such a all, will very soon be able to fill a productive service has been denied over the years, but place in the community. the Minister has appointed three chaplains. I have mentioned that the nursing position These gentlemen have been nominated by has improved. The Government have appre­ their respective church organisations and they eiated the need for nurses in mental hos­ will fill full-time offices. This is a very pitals to be well trained. It is a specialist important step in the treatment of the men­ job, and to this end they have appointed a tally sick whose only refuge in many cases Tutor Sister. She is presently stationed at is religion. It is of very great benefit to Goodna and the idea is to develop a pilot them to have the help of a chaplain. It is training programme. Under this scheme also a very great benefit to their relations. psychiatrist nurses play an important role. Many patients find that they can get much The nurse must be the patient's friend and comfort from a chaplain. the doctor's eyes. The psychiatric nurse is An important feature in psychiatric therapy expected to fulfil a role requiring intel­ is to help a patient towards some incentive ligence, integrity of character and profes­ sufficiently inspiring to overcome the psycho­ sional skill. The need for efficient selection logical defences and compensations that have of .aJ?plicants and the best of teaching and led to his escape from realities through trammg needs no further emphasis. Of mental sickness. course at Goodna and the northern mental hospitals there is a preponderance of male It can be readily understood that it requires nurses. This is not the case in other considerable inducement or incentive to make hospitals. the realities of life, which often mean strife, worth facing. To many people religion sup­ The establishment of up-to-date training plies the answer to most of their fears, and schools in our hospitals is essential and we the provision of a chaplaincy service has must face up to the costs of procuring already made a good deal of difference in teachers with the necessary experience and mental hospitals. 9ualifications. We have the problem of pay­ mg these people enough to keep them in The Minister's plan has been to introduce Queensland so that they will not be attracted an ''open hospital'' programme. Instead of to better jobs in the South. The long-term the old idea of barred windows and high treatment of mental cases is a problem which brick walls, he has introduced the pattern will always be with us. They will require of the ''open hospital'' system where people proper accommodation for the term of their can come and go, subject of course to the natural life and this is an entirely different restraints applicable to certain types of men­ concept to the acute or short-term treatment tal illness. In future, people in Queensland in public hospitals. In our mental hospitals will regard 'mental illness not as patients live their lives for days, months something to be hidden, but as a sickness and even years. During this time they can similar to those diseases that affect be ''drowned'' in the monotony of routine other parts of the body. It is the or can learn to live again. Facilities and opinion of the Government that no matter amenities for patients have been reviewed. how sincere may be their efforts, and no If a really strong effort is made after a matter how earnest and skilfull may be their period we may be able to salvag: some of officers, the successful rehabilitation of mental them and bring them back into the outside patients will depend on the public. Every world. person in Queensland can con tribute some­ thing to the restoration to their proper place The provision of facilities and amenities in society of people who have recovered from for patients is imp_ortant. It is not much good mental illness. Every person in Queensland, leavmg them out m a yard to sit on a form by tolerance in the first difficult weeks of for days on end. They merely become vege­ adjustment after a recovered patient leaves tables. The new system of thinning out hospital, can help to salvage a human life. the ranks at the Brisbane Mental Hospital Every person, be he a workmate or an means that more lounge and training space employer, can play an essential part in saving can be provided. The patients can then a human soul by accepting a recovered patient have some sort of recreational facilities and into industry and treating him with sympathy can b_e encouraged to take part in sport, and tolerance. Every person in Queensland at wh1ch many of them are experts in their own fields. can play an important part in the care, treatment and rehabilitation of the mentally At Toowoomba extensive alterations are sick by encouraging the Government in their in progress, and at Ipswich additions and endeavours. 996 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

I hope to see in the very near future there for very many years. A considerable greater public participation in the work of amount of money has been spent on repairs mental hospitals. I realise that it has been but much more will have to be spent to keep difficult in the past, but in mental hospitals the it in reasonable repair. Past Governments help of relatives and friends is of tremendous saw the need for the erection of a new importance to the inmates. Hon. members hospital but, immediately the present Govern­ would be astounded if they knew how very ment took office, for reasons best known to few people visit mental institutions. One or themselves they scrapped the plans and two concert parties do a remarkably good speciiications of the new hospital and insti­ job, but there is a great need for much more tuted some other scheme for the erection of public participation in the work of hospitals. another building in the hospital grounds. I believe the Government's scheme will I commend the Minister on the steps that aggravate the position. The over-crowding at he has taken to open the doors of mental the :Mackay hospital some years ago institutions. I am sure that in the years has been somewhat eased but the fact remains to come we will see the full fruits of his that the number of patients seeking hospital work by a reduction in the number of certi­ treatment and the present state of the exist-· iicates issued for the mentally sick. ing buildings warrants a new hospital. I cannot understand why the hon. membe~s for l)Ir. GRAHAM (Mackay) (3.35 p.m.): I suppose no Government department is more Whitsunday and Mirani, who have a particular closely associated with the people of the interest in the hospital, remained silent and State than the Department of Health and let the Minister override the previous decision Home Affairs. In its development over the of the department to build a new hospital years it could be said that successive Labour there. Governments have recognised their full Dr. No1ble: Would you agree that Dr. responsibility for its administration. Many Berry is a very good superintendentf Ministers in turn have been responsible for innovations for the betterment of the health li'Ir. GRAHA:Iti: Yes, she is a remarkable' of the people. If the present Minister follows woman. their lead and administers the department as Dr. Noble: Do you agree that she is a well as they did, we will have no fault to very capable hospital administratod iind with him. The department has been staffed with some Mr. GRAHAM: I think she is a very wonderful officers in the past and it still is. capable hospital administrator. We as members of Parliament have a great deal to do with them. I am sure hon. mem­ Dr. Noble: I can assure you that she is bers will agree that every officer is conscious completely in agreement with our plans. of his responsibilities and I pay great tribute to those I have had dealings with in my Mr. GRAHAM: May be she is. She may short political career. They are imbued with just fall into line with the desires of the a great sense of responsibility and service. Government. \Ve are very fortunate in having such a Dr. Noble: Don't you think that she is department. Its functions are many and a 1voman 'vith an opinion of her o·wn ~ varied. In many respects it is good to have a medical man in charge, because his train­ :Itir. GRAHAM: Possibly she would be, ing and knowledge give him a closer under­ but where would she be if she were tG standing of its requirements. oppose the hon. gentleman or his depart­ menH I can quite understand Dr. Berry's It is interesting to read in the Annual attitude. She is probably following the line Report about Hansen's disease and the of least resistance. advances made by medical science. Apparently Hansen's disease has been almost con­ Dr. Noble: You would not say that Dr. quered. It is gratifying to see that only a Berry is a weak-willed woman. few patients are now being treated for it. It has been my pleasure in recent years to }fr. GRAHAM: I am not saying tJ::tat at visit Peel Island because a friend of mine all. Why did she not oppose the erectiOn of contracted the disease. I was very much sur­ a new hospital~ prised at the treatment the patients receive Dr. Noble: Because she is completely there. Dr. Gabriel has done a remarkable job in favour of this new hospital. at the Lazaret and has helped greatly in curing the disease. Mr. GRAHA}I: She was evidently in I realise the difficulties associated with favour of the other one. A great deal of hospital construction throughout the State. monev has been spent on the preparation of The hon. member for Mulgrave complained plans" and speeiiica tions for a new hospital. about the absence of a hospital at Gm·don­ I do not know the iigure but I suppose vale. I should like to add my protest at £8,000-£10,000 must have been spent on archi­ the Government's decision not to erect a new tects' fees. But apparently all that has hospital in Mackay. The need for a new been thrown down the drain. Probably a hospital at Mackay must be accepted by similar amount will have to be spent on everybody. The present hospital has been new plans and speciiications. The present Supply. [4 NovEMBER.] Supply. 997 hospital is out of date. If the Government is something that should receive immediate carried on with the original plans for a attention. Its provision would mean many new hospital the old building could be used more happy and contented people. The pro­ as a home for aged people, something that vision of a senile annex at Mackay would is badly needed in Mackay. The establish­ overcome a great difficulty. ment of an aged people's home in Mackay There are a number of sub-departments should be considered. associated with the Department of Health Other hon. members have spoken about the and Home, but none is closer to the young need for aged people's homes in various parts married people than the maternal and child of the State. In Mackay we have such organi­ welfare section. There .has been a remark­ sations as the Mackay Benevolent Society, able growth in this section during the St. Vincent de Paul Society-- years. Much attention was given to this section by Labour Governments. Dr. Noble: They are extending. Young married couples are able to get advice and assistance from a trained staff, :illr. GRAHAlti: Yes, they are extending. and since it has been in operation there has They are operating a home for the aged. been a considerable drop in the infantile Consequently the need for a home for aged mortality rate. In this modern age many people in Mackay has been proved. The problems are experienced in the rearing of Government would have rendered a greater children. The young mothers today need service to the people of Mackay and district advice and assistance. The number of visits had they proceeded with the original plans to various centres throughout the State proves to build a new multi-storey hospital and how favourably the service is regarded by had used the old building for an aged people's the public. There are 63 metropolitan centres home. We do not need a five-storey building and 172 country centres. I suggest an but, say, a two- or three-storey building increase in the number of country centres should be made available. If the Govern­ in order to avoid the cost and inconvenience ment intend to establish senile annexes away now being experienced by young mothers in from mental institutions I suggest that one country districts. Some live miles away from should be established at Mackay. There a centre, but despite the inconvenience do are numbers of Mackay people housed at not hesitate to visit the nearest or the Travel­ the mental asylum at Goodna because ling Maternal and Child Welfare Clinic for of their senility. If a senile annexe were the purpose of getting advice. established at Mackay these people could I sincerely hope that the Government pay be accommodated there and they could full regard to the requirements and wishes be visited more conveniently. There is also a of the general public in regard to free need for the expansion of out-patient depart­ hospitalisation. Some people believe that ments in the various areas. For some years free hospitalisation has its disadvantages, there was an out-patients' clinic at Sarina, but while I think that those who can afford which is 23 miles from Mackay. A doctor and want to pay for hospitalisation should from the Mackay Base Hospital used to visit be given that right, the intermediate-bed it twice a week. Now a doctor is stationed system should not be extended at the expense at Sarina and I believe the practice has of those who cannot afford to pay for been discontinued. I should like to see an hospital treatment. If some hospitals have out-patients' clinic established in the empty beds, they could be made available country townships adjacent to Mackay. to intermediate patients but I should strongly Transport is a big problem for mothers oppose any move by the Government to who .have to catch rail motors and whittle down the number of free beds in travel 40 or 50 miles. After reaching the order to provide beds for those who desire hospital they may have to wait for two or intermediate accommodation. three hours before getting treatment for themselves or their children. And then they The Australian Labour Party is very proud have the long journey home again. I suggest of having established the free hospital that the Government should establish out­ system. The public fully appreciate the bene­ patients clinics at places such as Finch fit of this system over the years. I am not Hatton, Marian, Mirani and further south suggesting that the Government will abandon at Carmila, Koumala, and further north at it, but I think that, when the time is oppor­ Calen and Farleigh. The establishment of tune, they may try to extend the intermediate these clinics would save the country people ward system to the detriment of the public a tremendous amount of worry and money. ward system. I hope the Government realise They would know that on Monday, Tuesday their responsibility to those who need free or Wednesday they would only have to go hospitalisation. We know the trend in the a few miles to visit a doctor. At present southern States in hospital costs. At one time the Mackay Hospital provides attention for there ;vas an influx of people from southern country patients on several days of the week. States, people who desired to take advantage of I also suggest that consideration be given to the free hospital service here rather than the the appointment of another doctor at the costly hospitalisation provided in New South Mackay District Hospital in order that out­ Wales and elsewhere. Some action had to be patients clinics may be established in various taken in recent years to prevent a gro>vth of places outside Mackay. I have spoken before that practice, which was interfering with on the matter of a home for aged people. It the rights and privileges of the people of :998 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Queensland. Whilst we retain a system of awarded fellowships in medicine, 12 failed in free hospitalisation for the public, particu­ their examinations and had their fellowships larly that section which is not in a position cancelled; 'five dishonoured their c,ontract to pay, we will be doing the right thing by before graduation and eight after gradua­ the people. The extension of health services tion. Thirty-three had graduated to Febru­ to the people of the State cannot be retarded ary 1957. In the faculty of dentistry the in any way. If it is going to cost more to figures are a little better, because 77 were keep people healthy by the provision of these awarded fellowships, six failed in their services then the Government will have to examinations and had their fellowships can­ find the money. They are generous enough celled, one dishonoured his contract before in their approach. Might I say to the graduation and 11 after, whilst 43 graduated Minister that whilst the Government are to February 1957. There may be some who going to extend surgeon- or specialised· would argue that any system of bonded treatment to people in the far west it might student is wrong and does not attract the be extended as far as Mackay. Visiting best type of student. That of course depends specialists come to Mackay once a month and upon just how rigidly the bond system is it may be possible to send surgeon­ operated. In all these cases in the faculties specialists to Mackay and places further of medicine and dentistry, in spite of the north at fortnightly intervals. In the long agreement that binds them, encouragement run that would prevent people from coming is given to fellowship holders who have the to Brisbane for specialist treatment. We ability and are desirous of furthering their have good hospitals in Mackay to render knowledge in their own partiC

Jight of a medical report and after due the work in Queensland that merits special consideration of the applicant's financial commendation is free hospitalisation which position. I have been able to help two families was inaugurated by the Labour Government. in Merthyr in this way. They have been most I am very proud of the system of free appreciative. We hear a great deal about hospitalisation introduced by a Labour what the Repatriation Department does but Government. Previous Governments had a there is not very much publicity given to the strenuous fight to retain that system, and I fine work that our own Department of Health hope the present Government will not depart and Home Affairs does in a similar way for from it. the civilian population of the State. In his Financial Statement the Treasurer I should like to place on record my personal said that, although Queensland would seek to .appreciation of the very co-operative and be a claimant State, we would not have to helpful attitude of Mr. Maurice Little, a very give away our present hospital system. If capable and sympathetic officer. that is so, the demand for free hospitalisa­ tion will be met. The monetary value of artificial limbs supplied in 1957-1958 was £1,503. The value While speaking of hospitalisation generally ·of medical aids such as back braces, leg-irons I do not think we can overlook the Golde~ and similar aids was £1,581, a total expendi­ Casket. The money provided by it has gone ture of £3,084. That was the monetary value towards the establishment of many social but the benefit received by the beneficiaries services in this State. I have not heard any cannot be assessed in pounds shillings and hon. member discuss the Golden Casket Office pence. Now that the department is under the since I have been in Parliament. F'rank capable control of a medical man we can Burke and his staff through the operation of look forward to the Department of Health the Golden Casket Art Union have in. the and Home Affairs fulfilling its function in years from 1920 to 1958 made contributions the social services of the community with to the Hospital, Motherhood and Child wel­ the least amount of red tape and the greatest fare Fund amounting to £19,555,967. The degree of sympathy. The health services of Golden Casket Office in addition has made the State are indeed fortunate to have as the contributions to many other organisations 'Minister in charge a man of the ability engaged in social work. I compliment the understanding and calibre of the hon. membe; manager and his staff on the way in which for Y eronga. There will be no need to estab­ they have carried out their duties and on the lish a Dr. Noble ward in any hospital. I feel assistance they have given, particularly to sure that his greatest monument will be better the Hospital, Motherhood and Child Weifare medical and social services for the people of Fund. That fund has operated as a bulwark this vast State. for the preservation of free hospitalisation. The finances of the fund are now at a low lUr. GA~DNER (Rockhampton) (4.16 ebb, but that does not detract from the work P·I_U·): I 1~Ish to refer to the great work of this very Important department. We hope, of the Golden Casket Office. Last year an as the last speaker said, that it will not be amount of £1,559,101 was placed to the credit of the Hospital, Motherhood and Child Wel­ necessary to erect a monument to Dr. Noble because he will always be remembered in fare Fund. Payments were also made to the this State by his work. The work of this Bush Nursing Association, the Brisbane Women's Hospital, Dental Clinics, the department covers a very wide field. This ·department has an. appropriation of virtually Creche and Kindergarten Association. The assistance has been of great benefit to £15,000,000, it covers 13 sections, and it is Queensland. difficult to deal with them all in 2i5 minutes. I wish to pay a compliment to the work of I listened attentively to the Minister's the department and the work of the Govern­ statement on the construction of hospitals ment on free hospitalisation. I was pleased and about the new type of hospital to be to hear from the Minister, who is a medical built by the Goyernment. As a member of man, of some of the things that will be a Hospitals Board for some years, I thought attempted in the near future. There is the that the architects were correct in providing problem of the young surgeon who is placed hospitals with lifts so that doctors and nurses in charge of an institution in the outback would have easier access to patients and after spending a short period at the General operating theatres. If hospitals of only one Hospital. The Government will endeavour to floor are built, on the style of army hospitals, get specialists to visit these outside districts doctors and the nursing staff will have to to give assistance when required. I was walk down long corridors from one end of pleased that wherever it is practical the the building to the other. I am not foolish young men in the outblocks will have a enough to criticise the project at this stage. refresher course. That is a step in the right I shall visit the Minister to inspect the new ·direction. Anybody who has had experience hospital designs. At the moment I feel that on a hospital board over a number of years, hospitals spread over a large fioor area are as I have had, knows the problems that arise. not in the best interests of medical work, but One of the difficulties of hospital boards is I shall not pass judgment on them at this to secure sufficient staff of the standard stage. It might be a money-saYer but a 1·equired. Often the boards have to accept step backward from the point of view of the labour that is offering. One section of construction. Supply. [4 NOVE11BER.] Supply. 1001

Dr. Noble: A lot depends on the number one department that is doing a mag­ of beds. nificent job for the young people of this State, it is the State Children Depart­ ~Ir. GARDNER: Yes. Great worl!: nas ment. We often hear the average man com­ been done by the department in the provision plaining about his lot, but he should think of ''Eventide'' homes at Sandgate, Charters of the poor child who is being brought up Towers and Rockhampton. I realise the in an orphanage under the care of the State. great >York done for the aged people in the The State Children Department has clone a community. The State is grappling with a job of which it can well be proud. 'rhe great problem. \Ve have a very sympathetic officers have the duty of looking after State Minister in charge of the department. It is children and getting foster parents for them. not necessary to say that virtually every Many of the denominational homes also take home for the aged in Queensland is filled to care· of State children. capacity. From the statement made this morning by the Minister the Government One paragraph of the Director's annual intend to build hospital annexes for the report covers child delinquency, and I think senile and so relieve the situation at these it should be recorded in '' Hansard.'' This homes. is what the Director says about the farm home for boys at Westbrook- W.hcn ~he n:w chest clinic in Rockhamp­ " Despite the criticism which has been ton 1s fimshed m a month or six weeks' time aimed at this Home, my superior officers I am pleased to know that the status quo can be \Yell assured there is nothing wrong will be maintained at Westwood Sanitorium. here. The boys are well fed, clothed, and bedded, and many claim that they are better Dr. Noble: We will endeavour to off at Westbrook than they were at their arrange for the same staff to be kept on. O\Yll homes. lUr. GARDNER: The staff were particu­ Much has been said lately about delin­ larly anxious to know what was likely to quency but, with over 34 years' experi­ happen to them. ence at this Home, I would say that the real cure to the whole problem is not Dr. Noble: Because they have made what the Government should be doing but, their homes round the place. instead, what the parents should be doing towards the proper upbringing of their IU~. GARDNER: That is so, and they are children. Youngsters should be kept off loolnng forward to a continuance of their the streets, and the mothers should be at work. The Government must be compli­ home to receive them when they come from mented on continuing the policy laid clown school so that they can be cared for. If by previous Governments. \Ve cannot get the children are small, they should receive away from the fact that it is very costly for the love and attention from the mothers the Government to maintain ''Eventide'' which is their heritage. Children reared homes and I do not think anyone could umler such conditions very seldom offend quarrel \Yith the suggestion that deductions against the law.' ' should be made from the pensions of patients ~'hat is a >·ery fine paragraph, and I advise in senile annexes in the same way as they the hon. member for Chermsicle, who is Chair­ are made from the pensions of inmates of man of the Parliamentary Committee for the '' :E!ventid?'' homes. The gross cost per Im-estigation of Youth Problems, to study it. res1Llent m the Rockhampton ''Eventide'' home last year was £8 9s. a week and the T.he State Children Department is entitled net cost £5 15s. 3d. That figure is the to much more praise than it gets. This is highest in the State. The gross cost in what the Director reports under the heading respect of Charters Towers per inmate was "State \Vards in Employment"- £7 12s. 5d. a week and the net cost to the Goverument £4 19s. 2cl.; in the ease of Sand­ '' There are 263 wards in employment. gate the gross cost was £6 16s. 3d., and the Of this number 99 are resident with foster­ net cost £3 16s. Od. The number of residents mothers and go to and from their work in "Eventide," Rockhampton at 30 June ('Hch clay. This group is engaged in clerical, last was 221, the number in ''Eventide,'' factory, shop, or trade work governed by Charters Towers was 323, and at Sanclgate awards; many are apprenticed. Their 890. Those figures indicate how the dis­ wages are apportioned by the Department parity in costs come about. The same to provide for a reasonable board, out-of­ services have to be provided >vhether the pocket expenses, and the balance is banked institution is catering for 100 or for a few. in a Trust Account w.hich is drawn against The ordinary Queenslander who studies the to provide clothing for the child.'' matter will realise the difficulties of the I intend to quote two paragraphs on the department in trying to make ends meet. banking system so that hon. members will I~ these homes the pensioner is supplied understand fully what the Trust Account w1th good foo~, a good home, clothing means and what a great advantage it would and free med1cal services. If there is be if it operated in every home. In the case 1958-2L 1002 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. of a boy aged 14 years who is employed district pointing out the great anomaly it is as a shop assistant, the wages are appor­ suffering under. Last yeaT, to make ends tioned as follows:- meet, it was necessary for them to sell bonds Per week. worth £2,250. ~With 916 children in homes £ s. d. the costs are very great. The cause is a Board and lodgings .. 3 8 6 worthy one and I ask the Minister to give it Fares 8 1 veTy favourable consideration. If the matter is studied closely in the light of to clay's costs Pocket-money and lunches 1 6 5 it will be realised that £1 5s. is not enough, Banking 10 0 ~and it should be increased. ---- £5 13 0 :ilir. THACKERAY (Keppel) ( 4.38 p.m.): This is the first time that we have had a The ::tpportionment of the wages of a girl of doctoT in charge of this portfolio. There 16. w.hv is employed as a clerk-typist, is as has been a general tightening up at follo>n :- the Rockhampton General Hospital. Although Per \Yeek. the Minister is doing everything in his power, a pressure group is operating. Dr. £ 8. d. Cavage one of the most brilliant mediral Bonrd 9 ant1 lodgings oJ 0 0 men -ii~ Queensland and the Liberal J>arty Fares 4 0 president of the \Vandal branch, have made Pocket-monc;v and lunches 2 17 1 outspoken statements against the Govern­ B~n1king 3 10 0 ment's a

lUr. THACKERAY: She is not on the Dr. Noble: There are more people in the hon. gentleman's side, either. She is em­ public hospital now than there were last year ployed as a welfare officer and as such should or the year before, but there are more people work purely in the interests of the inmates. in the private hospitals than in the public She should not be used as a political stumb­ hospital. ling block. )fr. THACKERAY: There are more I do not know whether this matter comes people in private hospitals because of medical under the control of the Minister for Health benefits. and Home Affairs but I should like some in­ formation about the T.B. Clinic in Rock­ Dr. Noble: There are 40 intermediate hampton. \Yhat was the date set out in the beds in the Rockhampton hospital. contract for the eompletion of the T.B. Clinic g What penalty clauses, if any, were 11Ir. THACKERAY: If the hon. gentle­ man says so that would be right. included in the contract~ On what date is it expected that the T.B. Clinic will begin to As our Leader said, men of ability and operate~ If the completion of the building standing in the public seTvice should be paid is delayed the penalty clauses should be a higher salary. I do not think that invoked. No contractor should be permitted Dr. Cavage, the superintendent of the Rock­ to delay the operations of an establishment hampton general hospital, is being paid a like a T.B. Clinic. salary commensurate with his ability and responsibilities. He should be paid a salary The hon. member for Rockhampton said equal to the amount earned by a specialist that something should be done about the on \Vickham Terrace. Many medical men Westwood Sanatorium. Many senile people have told me that he is equal in ability to have entered the Eventide Home in Rock­ the specialists on \Vickham Terrace. hampton with the sole object of staying there for the remaining years of their lives. Jioy; The Government inaugurated free Salk vac­ is the medical profession to determine who cine inoculation. It should be given free shall stay at Eventide, and who shall be by all local authorities. The Rockhampton forced to go to W estwood ~ I would say that City Council charges 2s. for each inoculation, 25 per cent. of the inmates of Eventide would and just across the river the Livingstone be senile. Shire Council provides it free. vVhy cannot the so-called progressive party in Rock­ Dr. Noble: That applies to all Eventide hampton do the same~ Homes. We are not going to shift them. Dr. Noble: The hon. member had better lUr. THACKERAY: That is what I wa:-, ask the Mayor. wondering. I was wondering how the medical profession were going to overcome that ~Ir. THACKERAY: He tried to join the hurdle. hon. gentleman's party the other day. In K ew South vValcs, contributors to medical :'\Ir. Gair: There would be a much higher benefits fnnd, do not have to pay on a week­ percentage here. to-week basis. They use their medical benefit cards. That system should be put into opera­ l!Ir. THACKERAY: We have people 1n mrious phases of senile decay in the Chamber. tion in Queensland. Officers of the depart­ Some of them are suffering from political ment and the various Boards concerned could decay. In the last few months political look into that matter. If a man is in decay has been typical of a party not far hospital for six or seven weeks the hospital from my left. fees may be in the vicinity of £100. It does not matter whether the fees are coHected The city of Rockhampton is big enough weekly or in a lump sum. If a patient is for two General Hospitals. vVe hear a great in a medical benefits scheme, the paynwnt to dl :1l of talk about decentralisation. We have which he is entitled under that scheme should big hopes for development in Rockhampton. be deducted from the amount due to the The time is opportune for the establishment hospital-the patient paying the difference. of a General Hospital in North Rockhampton. Dr. Noble: He would not have to pay Dr. Noble: The present hospital is only anything. There would be a balance over half full. and above the hospital fee. JUr. THACKERAY: I think the average is 180. We should have a general hospital .ilir. THACKERAY: Some patients receive at North Rockhampton. There are in the only pro rata payments in view of the fact vicinity of 25,000 electors in Rockhampton that they were suffering from some com­ and the great percentage is moving to the plaint at the time of joining the scheme. north side. Dr. Noble: A hospital is entitled to Dr. Noble: The greatest number of collect the amount due from the medical hospital patients in Rockhampton are in pri­ benefits scheme. That applies to all hospitals, Yate hospitals. whether private or not. 1Ur. THACKERAY: I do not doubt it .ilir. THACI{ERAY: The patient signs a because the standard has degenerated in the form which allows the hospital to deduct the public hospital. amount. 1004 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Dr. Noble: The hospital gets a cheque the larger homes where there are a greater for its services and the balance goes to the number of children there should be an patient. · increase in the grant. lU:r. THACKERAY: The manager of I think that there should be an alteration in the Act with regard to the operations of "~ventide," Rockhampton, Mr. Taylor, is d_omg a very fine job, but on a recent inspec­ the Queensland Ambulance Transport twn I found overcrowding in the ward where Brigade. In New South Wales a board meals are served. I think it is Ward 3D. operates and it is given power to allow It contained four rows of tables, and inmates executive bodies to borrow money on the had to push others aside in order to get open market. Something similar should be to their places at the tables. I understand clone in this State. Failing that the Govern, that plans have been prepared for an exten­ ment should make an allocation each year sion of the dining room. Additional nurses' for the building of ambulance centres in accommodation is also required. I should the State. The Minister knows the particular like the Minister to give a clear definition centre to which I am referring. These of the supplementary issue of clothing to people recently had a Princess competi­ the inmates. Various Ministers have dodged tion ani! in three months were able to raise this issue for years. They have refused to £500. That centre could no doubt in three state the entitlement of each patient for or four years pay off a building costing the year. Various managers refer to it as £15,000. Such centres should be able to bor­ a supplementary issue, while others refer to row money and there should be legislation it ns a yearly issue. I ask the Minister to brought clmnt to set up rr board so that the mnke a definite statement as to whether Q.A.T.B., Brisbane, would be the borrowing inmates are entitled to a basic issue each ngency for the whole of the State. If one year of, say, a pair of socks, a cardigan a centre wanted to borrow its efforts would pair of trousers, a singlet, and so on. - ' have the backing of the whole of the Strrte_ Dr. Noble interjected. The district officer for the Central District State Children Department, Mr. Holbeck i~ lUr. THACKERAY: I realise that a centre also doing a good job. There are two ho~1cs might want to build a five-story building bv in Rockhampton-St. J oseph 's Home and spending £100,000 where £15,000 "~oul;l St. George 's Home. The hon. member for probably be sufficient. Rockhampton has touched on the subject. However, there should be some method of W~th the hon. memb~r for Rockhampton, I thmk that greater assistance should be given bringing Q.A. T.B. centres into closer to these homes. I notice thnt a grant of harmony. vVith the advent of the t\yo-wav £100 was made to St. George 's Home, but radio there should be a standard of radio I cannot find any reference to a grant to communication set up. St. J oseph 's Home. Dr. Noble: We have set a standard_ Dr. Nob le: For every State child the }fr. THACKERAY: Since when? homes receive 25s. a week. Dr. Noble: In the last six or eight Mr. THACKERAY: Grants have been months. A couple of the ambulance brigrrdes made to different organisations in Queens­ had different modulations but we now have land, including a grant of £100 to St. George 's a standard system of two-way radios for fire Home, b'.lt I cannot find that any grant has brigades ancl ambulances. been given to St. J oseph 's Home. :il[r. THACKERAY: There is a set Dr. Noble: Many years ago a few insti­ standard of two-way radios~ Is it a tutions were given small grants, but over the stanc1arc1ised hook-up from Cairns to Bris­ years those grants have been cut out. At bane~ the moment we pay half the cost and the Dr. Noble: One or two had different maintenance of new buildings, and so much types but from now on there is one standard. a week for each child. Hon. A. JONES (Charters Towers) As some organisations have received a grant ( 4.59 p.m.) : I agree with previous speakers for many years, it has been rnntinnecl in as to the work of the Department of Health those cases. and Home Affairs. As hon. members know I held the portfolio for that department for Mr. THACKERAY: Is that why one some years ancl so I have some knowledge of home is mentioned and not the othed its work. It is pleasing to know that today the Minister has not the amount of work Dr. Noble: Yes. thrust upon him as the Minister holding the portfolio had a few years ago. In addition llir. THACKERAY: The amount for each to the sub-departments I had jurisdiction child should be increased to 35s. a week. over the Police Department, the Government Mr. J effries of St. George 's Home and Father Tourist Bureau and the Department of Local Anderson of St. J oseph 's Home are doing fine jobs. I think that the Government Government. should assist those two organisations by 'Dr. Noble: You were very nearly the increasing the grant to 35s. a week. In whole Government. Supply. [4 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1005

~Ir. A. JONES: The Minister has a full­ }lr. A. JONES: I should say that the :ime job and his is probably the most general health of the people has improved 1mportant of all the portfolios. His depart­ OYer the years. It is 34 years since I was ment is very close to the people but the there previously, anc1 the general health of the work of his officers is not well known to the people has undoubtedly improved. people of the State. You cannot publicise all the work being done by it. When I was Last year the national health scheme cost :Minister for Health and Home Affairs more the British Government £780,000,000, which than once aeroplanes were requisitio~ed to is equivalent to about £14 per head of the bring patients to Brisbane from as far awaY population. It is a gigantic scheme, but it is as Cairns at a cost of several hundred out of hand. Queensland has one of the best­ pounds. Those things are not generally balanced health schemes in the world. When known, but that is the tvpe of work that is hon. members opposite eulogise the Minister clone by this department." I have never come for what he is doing and the .health set-up in into contact with more conscientious officers Queensland generally, as they are entitled to, than those in the Department of Health and they should realise that they are also eulogis­ Home Affairs, and many of them are still ing the previous Labour Governments who there. They do the real work of the Govern­ ,,-ere reHponsible for laying the foundation ment and make a Minister's job easy. for it. After all, Queensland is a yery big State. "'When I was in charge of the depart­ I should like to make some general refer­ E''cnt, come of the smaller hospitals, especi­ ence to Queensland's health system. I believe allv one in the south-west that I have in that we have possibly the best balanced lwnlth miiHl, coRt as muc.h as £7 a patient a day to service in the world. On my recent visit over­ nm. That was by no mPRns an isolated case. seas. I was naturally interested in social In e1ll ))arts of the world a great deal of F 'rnces and health schemes and I came to the condusion that Queensldnd had a health iut('t'e't is being taken in the Royal Flying service second to none in the world. I made D::Jctor Service. As far as I have been a bl•' a careful examination of the national health to learn, no other country has a similar H~rvice. It seems to have been given great ~ch~me in England, and it is my opinion that publicity and to be >Yell thought of by all 1t 1~ a welfare state in every sense of the >':?nl. The Go\·ernment have gone too far, I sroke to about it. I saw articles in th<> mth the result that the system is not balan­ Lor1clon Press about it, too. ced. Ewrything is frec___:there are free spec­ I turn now to one or two local matters. tacles, free hearing aids, free artificial limbs The fiut is the Mental Hospital at Charters and free im·alid chairs. As I sav almost Towers. I have not been advised officially, everything associated with the health of the but I saw in the Charters Towers paper a people is free. rr-port of an interview with the Minister at I believe that the development of the wel­ the aerodrome when .h.e passed through there f_are state in England has been largely respon­ some time ago indicating that it was his Slble for the. refusal of niany people to intention, after certain work is done, to stop nn_grate. It 1s very good to see the aged 'vork on that hospital. He did not give any lw11_1g c·upd for properly but, as I say, the reason. He will remember that there was natwnal health scheme has gone too far. some local resentment because the CharterF EYerybody is on a doctor's panel. This 'r'owers people believed that the Mental Hospi­ I n:eans that if you live h1 a suburb placed tal should at least be completed. well smularly to Ashgrove, you cannot get treat­ rt member that time and time again in this ment from a doctor who lives in Coorparoo Chamber when discussing these Estimates hon. fron: _whom you might previously have been members, especially those representing rcceiVmg t:reatment. When I was in Eng­ northern electorates, stressed the need to l:tnd my w1fe had occasion to visit a doctor. build a mental hospital in North Queensland so that it would not be necessary to bring I told her to be sure to take some money because we could not expect to participate in patients from the Gulf, Winton, Cloncurry, nncl such places to Brisbane. Eventually it the health scheme. Ho\Yever, \Yhen slle returned she told me that the doctor had was decided to build the hospital in Charters informed her that under no circumstances TowerR. coulrl he accept money from her. One bad ~While I was in charge of the department result of the present system in England is the population of the Brisbane Mental Hospi­ that the personal touc.h between doctor and tal at Goocbm was about 2,300 or 2,400. patient has been lost. Accorcling to the annual report tabled today it is about the same now. The figure miglrt Dr. Noble: There is a revolt against the be about lOO lower, which would probably be system at the present time. More and more accounted for by the inmates at C.harters docto;s in England are setting up in private Tmvcrs. Probably the Minister has his reasons practice. for the action proposed to be taken. The Government may not have the money. lUr. A. JONES: I can speak only of the S):stel? as I found it. I >vas not impressed Dr. Nob le: That is not the reason. I Wlth It. will tell you the reason. ::ur. Davies: Did you gain any impression l\'Ir. A. JONES: It seems to me to be on the general health of the people~ unreal to embark on such a project and then lOvJ Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. not finish it. The Charters Towers Mental even keel. I was pleased to hear the Minister Hospital i~ a modern hospital. Any hon. say in reply to a question the other clay that member who cares to inspect it will find ttat he 1vas arranging to have ym·ious plants, it is one of the most up-to-date in the IYorld. banana suckers, and seeds sent up. When 01·erseas institutions were studied .in the I visited the islands I noticed that there was sear~h for ideas for it. I understand that yery little foodstuff gro1ving there. I do not the Public 'Works Department yard is being think there was sufficient incentive for them remoYed from Charters Towers, which would to grow it, they did not know very much indicate that it is not intended to proceed about how to grow it. They did receive some with the \York for some considerable time, encouragement after being shifted to the if at all. mainland from Saibi. \Vhen I visited the area two or three years later I was astounded Another matter I want to refer to affects to see what they had done in growing pine­ the Medical Superintendent of the Mental apples, bananas, etc. They demonstrated Hospital. I understand that the medical what they could do if they received encourage­ superintendent at the Charters Towers General ment. If the rest of the natives were given Hospital visits the mental hospital daily, the same encouragement they IYOuld probably more or less looking after the patients. I do equally as good a job. There is no. doubt belieYe that it works out all right. On my about their intelligence. I had occasiOn to recent visit to Charters Towers the Hospital uttend their tri-ennial conference at Badu Board informed me that they had received Island. Representatives from all the islands permission to advertise for another doctor attended that conference. Again I was for the General Hospital. If another doctor astounded at the way they conducted their is appointed there will be two doctors at the mYn business. I am satisfied that the time Gencml Hospital but Dr. Robinson, the is not far distant \Yhen we shall have to give presen.t medical superintendent, will continue consideration to giving them some typ~ of to look after the mental hospital. There may rfpresentation in t:1is Parliament. It 1s a be reasons for it but the logical arrangement matter that I mentwned to my own Govern­ appears to be that one doctor should be ment when we were in office. It could be appointed as a full-time resident medical similar to the Northern Tenitory representa­ officer at the mental hospital instead of tion in the Federal Parliament. They are having two doctors at the General Hospital. peorle ·d1o should be giyen some encourage­ I have been associated with the Charters ment. Towers General Hospital for the last 20 years. In that time there has never been Dr. Noble: The islanders themselves a~e more than one doctor stationed at the hospital. not keen to do it. They discussed it at theu In those clays it was a far more important last conference six months ago. At the hospital than it is today bccquse there were present time they do not think they are ready. few hospitals in the west and many patients came from the IYest to Charters Towers. No lUr. A. JONES: I had deputations on two doubt the Minister has a reply, but I think oc~asions when they asked me if the G_overn­ it is far more satisfactory to have a doctor ment would give favourable consiclerabon to the matter. I found their standard of intel­ permanently stationed at the mental hospital ligence was very high, and they expressed than to rely on somebody a mile away. It themsch·es very well. There appeared to be appears to be making a sort of makeshift a good standard of education on the job of the whole thing. If it is a matter of vel'~- a few hundred pounds extm to appoint a island. doctor to be permanently stationed at the Dr. X o ble: They are a very fine race. mental hospital, it would be worth it. Certainly it does not seem to be satisfactory Jlir. A. JONES: There is no doubt about that a doctor at the General Hospital should that. I was pleased to hear the Minister also have under his control a mental hospital say that he was taking an interest in it a mile away in the same city, particularly because it is something which should have if a second doctor is to be appointed to the the consideration of the Government. General Hospital. I should be glad to hear what the Minister has to say about the Reference has been made to ''Eventide'' homes. As hon. members know, one of the matter. first ''Eventide'' homes was established in I was very pleased to hear some of the Charters To~>·ers; it houses 460 or 4 70 Minister's remarks about the T·orres Strait inmates. Anyone who has visited it will islanders. I have always taken a great deal agree that 'there is pro bauly no be.tter of interest in these people. On two occasions institution in the world. There are httle I visited most of the Torres Strait islands cottages for married couples and single huts with the Director of Native Affairs. I was for single men who are able to look after always impressed with the intelligence of the themselves. That is the ideal set-up and one natives. While it may be said that as a that should be extended. Many churc~ Government \Ye probably did not do as much organisations are building similar institu­ as we should have done for them when we tions. I know the difficulties. Sometimes were in office, nevertheless it must be remem­ 50 per cent. or more of the inmates are not bered that there was a state of chaos up able to live away fTOm a hospital. "Even­ there when the war intervened. It was many tide'' homes are something of which the years before we could get things back on an people can be proucl. That is very evident Supply. [4 NovEMBER.] Supply. 100":

when one visits aged people's homes in other have seen. I have no need to direct atten­ parts of the world. The homes that impressed tion to the fact that Townsville is a rather me most were in Sweden which has some of lopsided city in layout. The whole of the the best in the world. There are as many administrative section of Townsville, includ­ as 4,000 or 5,000 people in some of the large ing the General Hospital, is on the water­ homes. The organisation in that country front, and the city stretches out behind it seemed to be perfect. I visited one in like a fan, to a distance of seven, eight or Gothenburg and I was very impressed with nine miles. The pattern is becoming more the organisation and the manner in which pronounced year by year, with the develop­ the whole of the work was canied out. I ment of Pimlico, Currajong, Aitkenvale, have always had a great interest in "Even­ :Mount Louisa, Wulguru, Stuart, Oonoonba, tide'' homes, and it was stimulated because and Mundingburra. There is no further of the one in my own electorate. room for development in the city aren. Consequentl:y, those who want hos­ 3Ir. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (5.19 pital h·eatment or want to attend as oui;­ p.m.) : I was pleased to hear the eulogistic patients or visit the various clinics set up remarks of several hon. members regarding at the hospital from time to time have to the manner in which the department is con­ travel long distances at considerable incon­ ducted. It is wrongly named; it should be venience in order to get there. I know the named the Department of Humanity. That Minister cannot clo it this year, because I is where we get the real human touch. Hon. understand his Budget and policy are already members will join ·with me in expressing a prepnreG1, and he may not be able to do it vote of appreciation of the excellent job that next year, but I urge him to look ahead has been done, not only since this Govern­ with reganl to the population trend in ment assumed office, but over the years by Townsville, and set up, first of all, in the the Minister ancl officers of the Department Hermit Park area at least an out-patients' of Health and Home Affairs. I have no departm cut of the Townsville General Hos­ quarrel with the present Minister's predeces­ pital. If that was clone, people would not sors. I got from them the same measure of ha1'e to· travel six, seven and eight miles by kindly sympathy and unclerstancling as I get bus, bike, car or some other means, right to from the Minister. It seems to be some­ the seafront in order to get to the Towns­ thing in the air that ::tffects Ministers for ville Geneml Hospital. I ask him to set up Health and Home Affairs; they seem to get an out-patients' department in the Hermit that human touch. As hon. members have to Pm·k area. I mn not concerned whether it take all the problems that affect the sick, the is at Pimlico, Curraj ong or some other place, aged, and the mentally ill to the department, as long as it is established there for the we feel we have a much closer bond with convenience of the people. Later, when the this department than with many of the other Minister realises the benefit of that out­ departments. I really think that the trouble patients' department in the main population with Governments in the past is that in centre of Townsville, another hospital must regard to administrative bodies they have be erected in that area. That does not shown lack of courage and vision. They mean that the present hospital will not be Eeem to have set their Budget or their policy fully occupied. With the development of from day to clay. They have adopted the TOiYnsville there will be room for two hos­ attitude, "Let us try and patch up this pitals, but I urge the Minister not to spend particular job, and it may last a year or a further money on extensions, additions or couple of years.'' I was very pleased to alterations to the present hospital. It is hear from the Minister for Education that badly situated from the viewpoint of con­ at least his department is looking further venience to the public. Any money spent on ahead than the next year or the vear after hospitalisation in Townsville should be spent that. His department< is looking :five, 10, or on a new hospital where the people resicle. 20 years ahead. I speak of my own town, Dr. Noble: The present hospital is on a of course, Townsville. I have always particularly cool site. advocated that the Government should look to population trends in the various cities of ]}fr. AIKENS: I am not complaining the State. The present Minister for Educa­ about the site. It is excellent, and very cool, but tion is adopting a policy of courage and it is not right that the people should have vision and is looking ahead not to next week to travel long distances at considerable or the next year, but to the position of inconvenience to themselves to get to the Townsville in five, 10 or 20 years. I suggest hospital. In the near future Townsville will that the Minister for Health and Home spread from Brookhill to Mount Louisa. The Affairs should clo the same with regard to population must go west because that is the hospital administration and the hospital set­ only land aYailable for building. It is up in Townsville. He has been to Towns· ridiculous to have one hospital situated as ville frequently. He is always a very wel· far as possible from the main centre of come visitor. He is a very approachable population. If the Minister has courage chap. By only regret is that his predecessor ancl vision, he will see that anv further did not come to Townsville as often as the money spent on hospital accomm~'dation in present Minister, but when he did come he Townsyille is spent where the people reside, was just as >velcome. Ho1vever, in my that ie, in the Hermit Park-Pimlico-Curra­ opinion, he did not see the things he should jong area. Let it not be forgotten that if 1008 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

the Government put a hospital in that part to the Townsville Hospital and the system they would also get all the Railway Estate of honoraries will operate as it did many years people. They will find that when the Pimlico ago. We reached the stage when we had high school is erected that the Townsville honorary doctors at public hosiptals and in high school will be practically denuded of return for services rendered they were given pupils because they will go to the Pimlico so many beds in the public wards. high school because it is quicker of access and more convenient. Dr. Noble: You still have it at Townsville now vYith the part-time specialists. Dr. Noble: The Townsville Hospital site is completely covered. 1tir. AIKENS: Those are the part-time specialists employed by the Townsville Hos­ JUr. AIKENS: All the more reason why pitals Board, and they are paid by the the Government should leave it remain as it board, and controlled by the board in their is and spend any future money in areas capacity as part-time specialists. where people live such as the Hermit Park area, the Pimlico area and the Currajong Dr. Noble: We will continue that. area. IIIr. AIKENS: I am not complaining I want to make a suggestion and I feel about that. The Townsville Hospital is not certain that the ;}finister will be sympathetic big enough for the board to employ full­ towards it. At the Townsville General Hos­ time specialists. Forget about the part-time pital there is only one out-patients' depart­ specialists which are under the control of ment. Adults and children must attend this the hospitals board and who are paid for the department. When a mother goes to it with work they perform for public patients. I a small child, probably a fretful or sick am talking about the old dangerous racketeers child, she has a problem to keep the child and rorting honorary doctors. quiet and satisfied until her turn comes to see the doctor. I appeal to the Minister to Dr. Nob le: By the same token the set up at the Townsville out-patients' depart­ honorary system can be very fine. You ment a doctor specifically to deal with cannot get a better system than that oper­ children. The Minister could set the age ating at the Mater Hospital. limit himself. He could say that there will be a doctor at the Townsville out-patients' .iUr. AIKENS: I have no right to com­ department to deal with children under 12 ment on that. It is not a public hospital. years. After the doctor gets rid of the children he can then direct his atten­ Dr. Nob le: It is a public hospital. tion with the others, to general patients. Mr. AIKENS: It is not a public hospital It is a heartbreaking thing for a in the sense that I mean. mother of three or four little children to be sitting amongst adults waiting for I can remember very clearly vvhat happened her name to be called. It is a question of years ago when private practitioners were first in first served, but if the Minister allowed to practice as honorary doctors. In adopted my suggestion he would earn the return for their services they were given beds in the public wards. gratitude of the mothers of children. I do not think that adults would mind a bit if :i}lr. Walsh: That practice could find its the mothers of the children were able to way into the policy of the present Govern­ get away as quickly as possible. ment. To use the vernacular, I do not know llir. AIKENS: I was told that it was whether I have been given a ''bum steer'' or going to happen. Previously it reached the not but there is a fair amount of fear and stage in some hospitals where almost every concern amongst the people of North Queens­ bed in the public ward was tied up by these land at the present time that the Minister private practitioners or so-called honorary proposes to reintroduce into our general hos­ doctors. If you wanted to get into a hospital pitals in Queensland the dangerous practice as a public patient you had to pay fees to of honorary doctors. the private practitioner, who virtually owned Dr. Noble: No. the beds. I hope that the Minister does nothing to :i1Ir. AIKENS: I am glad to hear that. upset the excellent way in which Queens­ If we are to have free hospitalisation at land's general hospitals are now run. I have our general hospitals, and I hope we always a personal knowledge of the Townsville Gen­ will, those who deal with the people at eral Hospital, and I cannot speak too highly of general hospitals should be the staff of the the medical, nursing and domestic staffs there hospital only. and the way in which the hospital is run. I had personal experience there recently with Dr. Noble: Certain hospitals have part- some of my grandchildren, and anyone who time specialists. You would not get the has knowledge of it cannot speak too highly B.M.A. to agree to honoraries. of it. JUr. AIKENS: There have been discon­ I wish to say something now on behalf certing rumours floating m·ound that the of people who live outside the cities and Halberstaters and the like are to come back towns. Unfortunately there is a tendency Supply. [4 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1009

among members of Parliament, with the again, it is a matter of looking ahead. The exception of those who represent country Government may not be able to do anything electorates-and some of them, too, are about it this year, but they should plan for inclined to forget, soon after being a system of travelling outpatient clinics on elected-that they represent people in the wheels, so that they can sencl them to the country, to forget the interests of the people people to give them medical advice and in those areas. Using Townsvillc as an diagnosis, to the people of the country in example, I know that many peoplf' have to particular. face long and tedious journeys of up to 150 lUr. Beardmore: The Flying Doctor is a miles to attend the out-patients' department help, you know. at the Townsville General Hospital. If they ~Ir. AIKENS: Yes, but he cannot get to think there is something wrong with them every little place within a radius of 20 to 50 they either have to close their farms or miles. He can go to the outside places. I arrange with someone to look after them. In can say a great deal about the Royal Flying the case of the farmer's wife or a woman Doctor Service because it was my honour and working on the property, she has to arrange privilege to be the chairman of the first public for someone to look after her children, and meeting addressed by the late Rev. John she then undertakes the tedious journey to Flynn of the Inland when he told the people Townsville to wait four or five hours in the of Cloncurry in 1928 that he proposed to set out-patients' department before recervwg up the first flying doctor service. I was then attention. In other countries of the world­ the deputy chairman of the Cloncurry .Shire. countries that we do not regard as being as That is one of the memories I will always advanced as we are-there are travelling out­ cherish-that I happened to be there on that patients' clinics. Something like a small memorable night ancl chaired the meeting pantechnicon with all the necessary appara­ when the late Rev. John Flynn told us what tus for making a diagnosis travels to various he proposed to do. From that small begin­ small centres at certain times on fixed clays. ning the flying doctor network has spread all The residents know when the travelling out­ over Australia and I hope it will continue to patients' clinic will be in their district. For spread and to take to the people of the out­ instance one stationed at Townsville could back the medical treatment that they deserve visit pl~ces such as Toonpan, Antil Plains, and that many of them already get from it. Woodstock, Haughton Valley, Reid River, There is another matter I want to raise. Mingela and Ravenswood. It could probably I asked the Minister a question on it last do all those places in one day. The next year, and if I remember rightly, the tone of day it could go down towards the Burdekin his reply was that he was as concerned about River, and the following day up as far as the it as I was and as concerned as any other Herbert River. It could visit each place per­ hon. member. That is, with the operation haps twice a week. A patient could visit of the Pharmacy Board. I am speaking only the travelling out-patients' clinic and be told from memory and the Minister will correct \Vhether his complaint was trivial or not. me- if I am wrong, but I think he said that Medicine could be preBcribed and treatment there was some suggestion that the exami­ given on the spot. Again, if his cond~tion nations for qualification as pharmacists or was regarded by the doctor as senous, pharmaceutical chemists be taken away from arrangements could be made for him to enter the board and given to the university, that it the base hospital at Townsville for treatment. be made a university course. That could not Many hon. members who represent country be clone too soon for me, because I am firmly areas, such as the hon. member for Flinders convinced, from my own observations and and the hon. member for Balonne, have per­ from investigations I have made, that the sonal knowledge of country people-the salt Pharmacy Board delibe~ately rig~ the nu~ber of the earth-who have died in country areas of passes that it allows m the vanous subJects because they delayed too long in going to the from year to year. nearest base hospital for diagnosis and treat­ lUr. Walsh: Why would you say that? ment. They kept putting it off because the li'Ir. AIKENS: If the hon. member merely potatoes had to be dug or the cows had to has a look at the number of students who srt be milked. Frequently country people who and the number who pass he will know. have delayed seeking medical advice have Surely to goodness those who study pharlll:acy made the long and tedious journey to the ancl those who sit for the pharmacy examma­ nearest base hospital only to find th:;t it is tions are not all the dills and nitwits that too late for the doctors to do anythmg for the Pharmacy Board makes them out to be. them. Dr. Noble: You cannot believe every Dr. Noble: That does not happen only tale a student tells you. in the country; it happens in the city, too. lUr. AIKENS: I am not concerned w~th ~fr. AII\EN§: If anyone within walking the tales of students, but I am concerned wrth distance or tramming distance of a hospital facts ancl figures. I honestly and con­ is too stupid to go to it when he thinks he scientiously believe that the Pharmacy Board is really sick, it is very hard to have any lets through the final examinations only as sympathy for him. But sometimes the many pharmaceutical students as the country people have to travel up to 100 or Pharmacy Board thinks the trade can com­ cYen 200 miles to the nearest hospital. There fortably "handle in Queensland. 1010 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

ltir. Walsh: Would not that apply to the They keep the supply of chemists up to the university in some respects, too W people of Queensland like water-drip by drip. lUr. AIKENS: I think there might be When the Minister was in Townsville more control over the educational system at recently to open the new nurses' quarters we the university than there is over the had a look at the old hospital buildings so Pharmacy Board. I am quite open on the that the :Minister and his officers might deter­ matter. I have formed my opinion. It is mine whether or not some of the old build­ an honest and sincere opinion. I have ings could be used as an annexe for senile expressed it in public, too. If the Minister people. We had a long talk. I had a lot to wants to clear the air on the matter, let him say but whether anybody took. any notice of hm·e a public inquiry into the operations of me is another matter. At t1mes we were the Pharmacy Board. I would be happy. like the Chinese Parliament-everyone was Dr. Noble: I will tell you something talking and nobody was listening. I really about it later. think that a large portion of the old General Hospital in Townsville should be converted into an annexe for senile people. When old ltir. AIKENS: Good. I know that the Minister's reply will be frank and honest and people go into mental instit_ntions the Com­ open and I think it will be along the lines monwealth Government deliberately dodge of the answer he gave to my question when he their responsibilities. Pensioners go into a expressed concern with the set-up. mental institution but many of t.hem are not completely insane. As one hon. member said We have rPached the stage where relieYing on onP occasion, ''They are not mad, they chemists just cannot be got. A chemist who are simply suffering from phenyl decay.'' runs his own business cannot get a locum to The moment they go into a mental institu­ look after it because he is just not here. In tion the Commonwealth Government strike an earlier debate this session I drew attention them off their books, place the whole responsi­ to the position at the Townsville General bility for their maintenance, care, food, anc1 Hospital where a man who was in business clothing on the State Government. It 1s one as a chemist-and a very good man, too­ of the paltriest of paltry actions ever done retired from business as a chemist but was bv the Commomyealth Government to the constrained by, I suppose, his concern for s"tate GoYernment. The Chifiey and Curtin the people to come back from retirement to Governments \vere just as bad as the he the Chief Pharmacist at the Townsville Menzies-Faddcn Govenunent in that regard. General Hospital. He is battling along there on his own with no possible clwnce of getting A Government ]}!ember interjected. another chemist in. His wages are the magnificent sum of £1,200 a year, about as iUr. AIKENS: It is a case of Satan much as a sixth-class clerk in the railway­ reprO\'ing sin if ench attacks the other becau~e not that I am sour on them or that I think of their attitude to'>Yards the old people lll they are overpaid but if they are really pro­ the ccmmunity. perly paid, what do hon. members think of O!cl people should be admitted into the the pay of the Chio:f Pharmacist at the annexes so t.hnt the Commonwealth Govern­ To1msville General Hospital when he gets ment can be made to face up to their respon­ the same as the sixth-class railway clerk who sibility to\Yards their maintenance. At least may be employed day after day licking stamps the State Government could get back from or addressiEg envelopes. :E>-~n if the wages the Federal Government some measure of of the chief pharmacist at the Towns\'illc contribution towards the cost of maintaining General Hospital were commensurate \Vith aEd c:1riug for old people in these annexes. the duties he performs the Pharmacy Boanl needs to be cleaned up. There is a great (Time c:xpirecl.) deal of disquiet among people generally, Hon. W. POWER (Baroona) (5.44 p.m.): particularly those who have anythi~g to do I am glad to have the opportunity to make with pharmacy students, at the h1gh per­ a few comments about the acti,-ities of the centage of failures in the final pharmacy department responsible for the health of the examination. community all a step in the right direction. Dr. Emil ~tssistance to that organimtion, and I trust 0 'Sullivan started a hospital in my district that any further requests for additional sub­ for this work, but owing to heavy costs he sidy will be favourably considered. \Yas unable to carry on. After treating a number of people, he hall to close thH The Blue Xursing Sen·ice, I understand, hospital. He has made a very close is an adjunct of the Methodist Church. study of the illness caused by thH \Yhen·ns the work of the District Nursing over-consumption of liquor. His appoint­ _\ssoriation is confined to the metropolitan ment in charge of this ward is an area the work of the Blue Nursing Service is excellent step. I know that Alcoholics Anony­ State-wide. A sum of £11,000 was grantell mous is doing good work in ceTtain direc­ to thi> Ol'o·anisation last year. These people tions, but over-consumption of liquor over do work similar to that done by the District a lengthy period must have some effect on Nursing Association. If it were not for these health, and the action of the Government and s ·rYices the hospital authorities woulU find the Minister is to be commended. It is a difficulty in providing sufficient accommoda­ worth-while step that will be appreciated by tion. the great majority of the public. I cannot Dr. Noble: The Blue Nursing Service imagine a worse spectacle than a man under run an old peoples' hospital. the influence of liquor going home to his wife and family. Every effort should be made to ~Ir. POWER: Yes. Another organisa­ cure him of the habit. I make it clear that I tion which has not been in operation very am not a wowser. If a person wants a long but which is doing good work is the drink let him have it, but every effort should Brown Sisters of the Poor. They do not be m~de to cure those who practise the habit charge for service and will not attend to any to excess, just as action must be taken to person who is able to pay for such senice. cure those who are addicted to drugs. I have They l'isit the homes of the very poor people. evidence of some people taking drugs; where I h~pc that the Government will consider they are obtained, I do not know. Addiction increasing their subsidy, which last year was to drugs is e)'en worse than alcoholism. I £1,000. The Sunset Home is conducted by have seen people who in my opinion are the Council of Churches. The building belongs under the influence of drugs. Action should to the Government and a subsidy of £150 be taken to tighten control over the sale of is naid each year. A committee has been drugs. The Government must keep the operating for many years carrying out the tightest rein on the sale of drugs. management and providing the finance for the amenities for the old people. It is not gener­ The Surf Life Saving Association is ally known that for many years the members another organisation subsidised by the depart­ of the committee have looked after the inter­ ment. The time is long overdue for greater ests of old people there. At times it finds contributions by insurance companies to the itself in difficulties. I approached the Minis­ clubs. I am a director and Treasurer of the ter in regarcl to further financial assistance, Police and Citizens' Youth Welfare Associa­ and I am pleased to say that as a result tion which has recently formed a lifesaving of action suggested by the Minister their club' to operate at Broadbeach, outside financial difficulties arc over at least for the r~ennons Hotel. A good deal of money has time being. been spent in establishing the club. Of course we will be knocking at the Govern­ It \Yas disturbing to me to learn that the ment'~ door for a subsidy and there is no Queensland Ambulance Transport Brigade doubt we will get it when the club has been proposes to make a charge for attending approved and accepted by the association. aceidcnt cases. I thought that the Q.A.T.B. \Yas a voluntary organisation, and that fees I pay a tribute to these ;you~g n:en w~o IYPI"e not to be ~ harged. They had a practice from time to time take theu hves m theu of asking people to pay £1 a year for the hands in going to the rescue of people in 1012 Supply. [ASS.ElVIBLY.] Supply. difficulties. These clubs should have greater present a fair amount of work still requires power to enforce bathing only within the to be done. Until recently there was an flagged area. Despite the placing of flags excellent doctor at Cooktown, but he has now on a beach, some people will enter the surf left the area with the result that Cooktown outside the area, ignoring the advice given has no resident doctor. It appears to me by the lifesavers on the beach. As a conse­ that the salaries offered to doctors in small, quence, lifesavers are called on from time to remote areas are not sufficient to encourage time to risk their lives in order to rescue them to stay there. Even though they may people who ignore the advice given to them, be allowed the right of private practice, they and swim outside the flags. Authority should would not get much from that. The doctor's be given to the life-saving clubs to deal residence at Cooktown, which cost £6,000 to with people who swim outside the flagged build, is now vacant, and I should like the areas. I would even go to the extent of say­ Minister to try to get a resident doctor for ing that police should patrol the beaches to Cooktown as soon as possible. deal with them because they are endangering ~Ir. Aikens: What salary is he paid? the lives of life savers. Action should be taken to prosecute them. I do not say that ~Ir. ADAIR: I think it is about £1,500. the clubs should have the power of arrest or Dr. Noble: It is £1,250 a year with the to take the names of the people but police right of private practice. should be there to do that job. Jir. ADAIR: There is no private Dr. Noble: Some people leave their practice at Cooktown. Nobody there could homes on the beach front and bathe in front afford to pay a doctor. of their houses. Do you say that they should There is an excellent hospital at Thursday be proscuted ~ Island. Several of the nurses are islanders JUr. POWER: I would not suggest that and they are doing very good work. Their action be taken in such cases. I am speaking quarters, which were built by the Sub­ of beaches where large numbers of the Department of Native Affairs, are of a very public bathe and where the flags are put out. high standard. They were built mainly by It is not fair that these young men who give coloured labour under a white foreman. their services free at week-ends should have They did an excellent job. I know that plans their lives endangered. It is a pity to see and specifications have been drawn up for them thumbing rides to the Coast each week­ the building of a new nurses' quarters at end. Action should be taken to provide Thursday Islanu and I think they should be transport for them. gone on with. The present arrangement is unsatisfactory. The sisters live in private I shall reserve further comment until the homes scattered around the toiYnship. oth~T Votes come before the Committee. T'he aerial an1bulauee, u11Llet the control JUr. ADAIR (Cook) (7.15 p.m.): I take of Superintem1ent Tom Briggs, is g1vmg this opportunity of congratulating the excellent scTYice. I do not think any other Minister on the attention that he hns given part of Austmlia enjoys better service than to his duties since attaining his present that given Ly the aerial ctmlmlance and by high office. He has given me every satis­ the Cairns ambulance. Tom Briggs puts his faction in the various matters affecting my whole time into the conduct of the service electorate that I haYe brought before his and even attends race meetings throughout notice. the Peninsula with his chocolate wheel auc1 other means of raising funds. He is doing Jir. Walsh: If he does as well as the an excellent job. previous Minister did he will be all right. l'iir. Bjelke-Petersen: Do you think the Mr. ADAIR: If he does as well as the flying surgeon will be helpful up there~ previous Minister we shall be quite satisfied. Mr. ADAIR: Yes, the Flying Doctor does The main structure of the hospital at an excellent job. The aerial ambulance Cairns is very old and before long a new attem1s to broken arms or legs that stock­ building will have to be constructed. It is riders and other horsemen sustain and takes fully taxed to provide the necessary accom­ the patient to the hospital in Cairns for modation and further space is urgentl;­ treatment. The service is perhaps not as needec1. Several patients are accommodated good as that given by the Flying Doctor, on the verandas. In answer to a question who attends to patients on the spot. Still by me the other day, the Minister said that it is excellent. It covers the Gulf and the when the new nurses' quarters are finish eel Peninsula, including remote m·eas. the present quarters will be occupied by The Australian Inland Mission at Coen patients. The new quarters for the nurses on the Cape York Peninsula is doing excellent will cost about £255,000 and I am sure that work under the control of Padre the Rev. the nurses will be deeply appreciative of Colin Ford. The patients, mostly aboriginals, them. It is likely that they will be in use are brought to the hospital and cared for in a few weeks' time. by the two Sisters. Serious cases are treated The hospital at Cooktown is one of the and sent by plane to the hospital at Cairns. oldest in the State. The previous Govern­ The Government should do all they can to ment did a good deal of work on it, and help the mission. It deserves help. The although it is in fairly good condition at building cost over £20,000. Supply. [4 NovEMBER.] Sttpply. 1013

~Ir. Bjelke-Petersen: What assistance Island boys in Cairns and Townsville and did they get? throughout the West carrying out jobs on the railway very satisfactorily. There are two ltlr. ADAIR: I have been told that the Islanders employed as foremen in railway Government gave them £8,000 as a grant gangs in the Cairns area. There would not towards the cost of building the hospital. be any difficulty in assimilating these people. I do not know what assistance they get for I do not think one could find cleaner homes maintenance but at least the Government inside and out than the homes of these should pay something towards maintaining Islanders on Thursday Island and Barclu the hospital. Island and St. Pauls. The Department of Native Affairs has Good living conditions come next in import­ done and is doing an excellent job on Thurs­ ance to education. I know that the depart­ day Island. In the days of the Labour Gov­ ment is doing everything possible with the ernment it took into its care the 6,000 limited amount available to provide suitable islanders in the area. Under the control of homes. Many of the homes on Thursday l\1r. Con 0 'Leary the Department of Native Island should be condemned, but without Affairs has done a fine job for the islanders. them they would have nowhere to live. We There is a large area to administer, including know that 80 Okinawans have returned. Many all the islands from Thursday Island to the buildings were constructed to accommodate New Guinea coast line. The "Melbidir" them on Thursday Island. If the Govern­ makes periodic visits with supplies to all the ment purchased those buildings they would islands. The two ship's officers, Mr. Melior provide accommodation for these Islanders. and Mr. Brown are doing a good job. The master pearlers spent up to £50,000 and the buildings conform to the plans and speci­ ltir. Aikens: What do you think of the fications of the local authority. This accom­ job being done by the church missions~ Do modation could be used by the Islanders. The you think they merit the criticism levelled at Department of Native Affairs is doing an them~ excellent job in the building of homes. These two-bedroom homes which cost under £1,000 lUr. ADAIR: Not all of the criticism would be suitable for anyone to live in. I they are getting. I shall deal with that later. hope the Government grant enough money to carry on this good work. Hundreds of homca Any married man with a family on Thurs­ are needed on these Islands. day Island who is earning £1,000-£1,200 a year has no chance of saving any money. At Bamaga, on the tip of Cape York Penin­ Srhool teachers and other public servants get sula 1 there are good reserves of maple, requisition passes each year to come to the hickory and other softwoods. I am informed mainland. Officers of the Department of that th~re is more than enough to meet the Kati.-c Affairs are doing an excellent job. At demand for building timber for many years. j, ac;t they should be given similar passes once If the money was available the department a year to encollrage them to remain on Thurs­ could construct hundreds of homes throughout day Island. A married man with a family the islands. I believe the time will arrive has no chance of saving enough to pay fares. ,vhcn Islanders on remote islands will have to A single adult fare costs £20. The return be taken to tlw mainland. Hundreds of fare for a man and his wife ~would cost £80; islanders could be settled at the top of Cape if he had any kicldies it would cost him at York, where there is excellent soil and a least £100 in fares for an annual holiday. I plentiful supply of water, as well as timber. ask the Minister to give this matter earneRt The Department of Native Affairs has proved consideration because if he wants the depaTt­ that all types of vegetables can be grown mental officers to remain there he will have at Bamaga. In time I think many Islanders to give them some encouragement. will have to be transferred to Cape York Peninsula. The '' Melbidir'' goes round all the islands once a month. JI.Ir. Melior is the captain and On my last visit to Coen I noticed that 1\Ir. BTown the engineer. Both would be homes >Yerc being built for aboriginals. The entit!Pil to the coucc;:sions I suggest. The department is engaged in building work on investigation by the Parliamentary All-Party Thursday Island, Darnley Island, and, I think, Committee which visited Thursday Island will St. Paui 's Island, Badu, and other islands. do much for the development in that area. I The Islanders will benefit greatly from this believe that when the matter is dealt with the work. Islanders will benefit greatly. The main thing is the education of the Islanilers. Without Soeial Service benefits are available to education there is nothing much that can be Torres Strait Islanders and non-controlled clone for them. If we go the right way about aboriginals of half-blood, but these benefits it they can be brought to Junior standard. are denied to aboriginals on the ground that The Government should endeavour to see that they are fully maintained on Government all these children are educated to that stand­ settlements and church missions. Representa­ arcl. These people have shown great aptitude tions should be made to the Federal Govern­ in any work undertaken by them. Those ment for the granting of social services to engaged in the building trade do work equally aboriginals as well as Torres Strait Islanders. as good as any carpenter. I have seen those I haYe a lot of time for the aboriginal. Ho 1014 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

is an Australian and should enjoy the same The hon. member for Ithaca implied that social service benefits as the Islanders. I we hacl cut do"·n the appropriation for hos­ ask the Government to make representations pitals, that in the Estimates for this year to the Federal Government for the granting there was a greater amount provided than of social service benefits to aboriginals. was actmdly expended last year. I find that (Time expired.) for 1956-1957 £19,000 more was spent than in 1955-1956 and in 1957-1958 £28,300 more was spent than in 1956-1957. This year it Hon. H. w. NOBLE (Yeronga-Minister for Health and Home Affairs) (7.40 p.m.): is estimated that ~we will spend £31,000 more I should like to reply briefly to the speeches than last year. The administrative proccdme adopted by the foTmer Government as to the of hon. members. I thank hon. membeTs for the way in which they have received the housing of domestic staff in hospitals was a Estimates of my department, and on behalf very good one. Not one domestic lives '"ithin the hospitals under the jmiscliction of the of the staff of my department I thank the Brisbane and South Coast Hospitals Board. various speakers for the great praise that There is a big saving in that reganl. We the;- bestowed upon them. would get only 25s. a week for the keep of There has been vcrv little cTiticism that domestics if they lived in. That is one calls for Teply. The h~n. memlwr for Ithaca reason why the cost of provisioning hospitals spoke of the type of hospital that we intend is getting lower every year. ~ to build in the future and suggested that if we built single-storey buildings the nurses The hon. member for lthaca more or le~"•S would have long distances to walk. The advocated that the Govcmment should charge hon. member for l\1ackav also mentioned the higher fees for private and intermediate matter. With a single:storey building you 'beds. He did not say it in so many "·orcls, do not envisage a hospital of greater capacity but he kept repeating that we should not than 200 beds. There would be verv little subsidise private and intermediate beds at more walking in a single-storey 200-bed the expense of public heels. hospital than in the present type of hospital. It would be easier to administer because Mr. Wallace: He did not mention intermediate beds. when you have separate floors there is a duplication of services and that means that the matron has a harder task to keep control Dr. NOBLE: Yes, he did. I asked him of the hospital generally. twice, and on the second occasion he said that we should not subsidise priyate and I said that if the present Government had intermediate beds at the expense of public been in power the South Brisbane hospitnl beds. He more or less implied that at the would not haYe been built. I agree that there prc'Jent time t.he public beds are not receiv­ has to be a base hospital with all facilities ing arlcouate service. Kothing is fmther from for advanced specialist treatment but Bris­ the truth. AH a matter of fact, we intenr1 to bane has a base hospital in Bowen Bridge increase the senices to people in public Road where every type of advanced therapy wards. N ewr in the history of hospitalisa­ can be given. tion in this State has anything been done in JUr. Power: You are not closing the the rehabilibtion of patients. That is some­ South Brisbane Hospital. thing that we intend to go ahead with. Dieti­ tians, too, have neYer been employed in ::my Dr. NOBLE: It cost £5,500,000 to build Qu0cnsland hospital, nor have social workers, and it costs £500,000 each year by •my of >Yho are faced with a tremendous task with interest and redemption. It woulrl have been many patients. Because of the policy of better to spend that money on smaller lws­ previous Govcrnmen ts of not allowing social pitals through the suburbs of Brisbane so as workers into hospitals, when we advertised to bring hospitals closer to the people. fnr them the other dav we found that not one There are 750 beds in the South Brisbane •vns available in th~ State. However, we hospital. \Ve could have run the smaller intend to go ahead with the proposal to hospii-als more cheaply anrl we could have emplo~· social •vorkers. The Queensland provided the same number of becls for Pniwrsity "·ill be appointing a part-time £2,000,000. There would also be a PRYing in lcctnrer in social work, who will also be a interest and redemption of £300,000. With senior officer of the Brisbane and 8outh Coast that monev we could have done a tremendous Hospitnls Board. My department intends also amount of building. Of course, I realise it to a~point a very hig.hly-qualifiec1 social is a matter of opinion, but in the opinion "·orke:·. \Yith that as a nucleus, we intend of the GoYernment that would have been the to build up a high standard of social welfare wiser plan to adopt. \Ve will remain in work within the department. In the past, office for many years-as the years go by public health '"as considered only from the we will have a chance to deYelop this type point of ,-ie"· of fighting infectious diseases. of hospital throughout Queensland. The first Toda;v, however, with modern forms of therapy of its type is to be constructed at Southport. tlwt is not a wry great problem. The most I was informed only this afternoon that the important field in the State's health senices plan~ are complete: tenders will be cnllecl lies in social work, and we intend to Eee and it is hoped to have the hospital built that in this respect Queensland is treated very shortly. properly. Supply. [ 4 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1015

~Ir. Windsor: Will that tend towards office I found that the State was g1vmg a better health~ l straightout subsidy to the churches, the Sal­ vation Army and the like, who were building Dr. NOBLE: Yes. homes for the aged. The Commonwealth The hon. member for Mulgrave spoke of Government would come along and ask, ''How the need for a hospital at Gordonvale. One much are you getting from the State W" They hon. member opposite interjected and wanted would say, ''50/50.'' The Commonwealth to know how far Gord01wale was from Cairns. would then say, "We will give you 33~ The di,;tance is 14 miles. The hon. member per cent.'' In all the other States of Aus­ for Cook tolc1 us that the hospital in Cairns tralia the State Governments are not giving has insufficient accommodation. I agree with one penny to Eventide or senile establish­ him. More beds will have to be provided ments built and conducted by the churches. there soon. Ho1vever, before adding to the The Commonwealth Government, as part of Cairns hospital it may be preferable to pro­ their platform, offer them £2 for every £] vide a small hospital at Gordonvale to save raised but because Queensland was giving a rhe people of that district the necessity of 50 per cent. subsidy the Commonwealth gave going into the central hospital at Cairns. not the two to one but merely the 33:} per After taking into consideration the beds that cent. of the actual cost of the building only. will be provided in the present nurses' So the State was not getting so many homes quarters at Cairns, it might be better to build because the small amount of money in the a small cottage hospital at a place such as State had to be distributed as a larger sub­ Gorclonvale than extend the Cairns hospital. sidy among fewer institutions. The Govern­ ment thought that was not right. Now when There has been a good deal of agitation the churches come along and say they intend for the establishment of an out-patients' to build an institution at a cost of, say, di,ic at JI.Ialanda. On the other hand, the £20,000 we say to them, "You collect ambulance committee at Atherton wants an £5,000.'' They collect it and then they go ambul:tnce centre formed at Malanda. There to the Commonwealth and say, "We have has been a good deal of controversy between £5,000.'' The Commonwealth then have to those two schools of thought, and I have give them £10,000 so that they have in all l'romised to visit Malam1a and examine both £15,000. We come in at the end and supply proposals IYhen I open the new nurses' the balance, and pay the cost of furniture quarters at Cairns towards the end of this and other items which do not attract Common­ year or early next year. wealth subsidy and the church goes into the The hon. member asked if it was the institution free of debt. Because we are hus­ d cpartment 's policy to do a way with paintel'8 bancling our resources, more and more insti­ ancl other tradesmen in hospitals, and to ha\e tutions nre being built. In the next 12 months most of t.he 1York done by contract. I think or so, more and more churches will come into contract 1mrk is the most economical, but in the picture and develop :tine and well-run (_,f t. ...: lnrg·_·t· ho_~ljitals 1 think there institutions for the aged. J :, " t~l ~,.: fur c~nl.lJy lng pennanent IHtint.ers. The hon. member for Mundingburra is '1llc LtejJa rtmcutal ofiicers and I have been very keen to have an aged people's home in discussing it and we intend soon to employ his area. All he will have to do is go painters iu some hospitals. to one of the institutions up there and tell The hon. member spoke, too, of the build­ them the tale and I feel sure they will come ings at the Tinaroo ]'alls clam site, and he into it. They will be getting a very good mentioned their temporary nature. It must institution, a very good capital asset, at a be remembered that Tinaroo Falls is quite a small cost. If he did that he might have an few miles fTom Atherton and Mareeba and it institution for the aged named after him. is very hard to get domestic and other staff The hon. member for Sherwood spoke of to go to snch places. ·when we establish the need for a cottage maternity hospital in institutions for the aged we :find that we his district. There is a shortage of obstetric haYe to select a centre where staff is readily beds in Brisbane. For some reason or other ubtainable. There is a very good school at :B'ebTUary is the peak period of the year. The the Tinaroo Falls site that is not going to biTth rate seems to mount very quickly about be used and the Atherton Hospital Board has February and March. I do not know the been told it can purchase the building and Teason for it but it is the case. Last Febru­ take it down to Atherton to use as a female ary and March the Brisbane Women's Hos­ :cllnexe. I hope that will be done. pital was overcrowded. The hon. member spoke of an Ewntide )Ir. Aikens: Go back from February and Home. Eventide homes raise a big problem. Manh a11d you will get your answer. 'Throughout the ,State we are not getting the Dr. NOBLE: I cannot give the hon. ambulatory type of old person. Those coming member the answer. As the hon. member for into our homes are really hospital cases. The M uudingburra is so well informed on matters future of the Eventide homes of the State of medicine he might be able to give me the will be that the State will look after the ho~­ answer. In any case, the Women's Hospital pital case and build geriatric wards or units was very overcrowded, consequently we had throughout Queensland but the churches will to open a convalescent ward in the ,South look after the ambulatory aged and give a Brisbane Hospital for mothers from the very good service indeed. When I took Women's Hospital. They would have their 1016 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

baby on.e day and go across to South Brisbane not a very infectious disease. There has not the next day. It turned out to be a very been one known case of a person working in popular move. a leprosarium contracting the disease. Mr. Power: The Mater Mothers will be lUr. Aikens: It is the least transmissible opening up, too. of all the contagious diseases.

Dr. NOBLE: I am coming to that. I Dr. NOBLE: As the hon. member says, 'vas advised by various medical officers that it is not a very transmissible disease. it would be a good idea to make this ward a JUr. Power: How is that prisoner getting permanent obstetric hospital in the South oH who is there for life~ Brisbane Hospital. To my mind it 'vould be very silly to do so because before very Dr. NOBLE: He is still there. He must long the Mater Mothers' Hospital will be be almost cured. vVhen Dr. Gabriel comes opening. It would be very unfair to the back from Tokyo we hope to alter the sisters who have spent a huge amount of regulations fmther. PCThaps it may be money-up to £1,000,000-to build that possible to do away with the lazaret at Peel hospital. To my mind it would not be right Island. It costs nearly £54,000 a year to to open another hospital to compete with keep it going. them right at their front dool'. However, lUr. Aikens: Dr. Molesworth and all the there is need for one, two or three cottagA great authorities oppose segregation. hospitals for maternity cases throughout the metropolitan area. I assure the Committee Dr. NOBLE: We will be guided by the that perhaps before the next elections we advice we get from Dr. Gabriel when he comes shall have one somewhere in Brisbane. I can­ back from his leprosy conference at Tokyo not guarantee the hon. member for Sherwood The hon. member for :Mackay was of that it will be in his electorate. We will see the opinion that Dr. Berry could scarcely where most of the mothers are coming from speak her mind because she would have her and that is where the cottage hospital will head lmockecl off if she disagreed with the be established. Government. I know her very welL She is a strong-minded woman and there is no I agree with ,vhat the hon. member said way in which you could scare her. It may about child guidance clini~s. Child guidance have been the policy of previous Labour clinics are part of the social welfare service Governments to create fear in the minds of which the GoYernment are very keen to public servants but it is not the policy of the institute. vVe intend to establish three clinics present Government. It is hoped that the· in Brisbane and one roving clinic for country provision of a 56-becl ward which should be areas. At the present time we are trying to built next year will relieve the position. One get social workers. vVe hope to institute this of the old >varcls could be used. The present programme early in the new year if we ca11 building is very sound but the appointments get sufficient social workers. are very poor. When we get the new 56-bed Jl'Ir. Baxter: Do you mean a mobile clinic ward opened we will transfer the patients for the country from one ward into it and when we finish Mackay will have a very good hospital. Dr. NOBLE: Yes. Social workers in a I think vve can do the whole job for about group will go to, say, Maryborough and then £150,000 or £170,000. If we adopted the move on to other parts of the State. other proposal and pulled clown the hospital we would have to spend close on £1,000,000 The hon. member for Sherwood also spoke to provide the number of beds needed. There about padres in meutal institutions. I believe is not only one hospital there. There is a that they do a great deal of good, even if it charity hospital or a Mater hospital run by be onlv to raise the moral tone. Through the Sisters. I heard they too intend to their c"ollea O'Ues in the various churches they increase the number of beds. If they do, will act as"' liaison officers between patients there will be no need for us to increase our and their relatives, wherever they might live. beds more than the 56 we are now building, Before very long we hope to extend the otherwise the town would be over-hospitalised. scheme throughout all the mental hospitals There are towns round Mackay that need in the State. hospitals. Sarina has a population of 5,000 and an active committee has operated there I thank the hon. member for Mackay for for years encleavoming to get a hospital. hif, fulsome praise of the departmental vVhen the money is available without doubt officers. He mentioned that there are now it will be a place where a cottage hospital onlv a very few people at Peel Island suffer­ will be built. ing from Hansen's Diseas~. The new dru!1s are yuickly curing the disease. Only tins The hon. member for Merthyr spoke of vear we altered the regulations. Previously those who were granted fellowships. I speak it was necessary to obtain 12 negative smears very highly of the work they do. We do before a patient could leave Peel Island. Now not get the second-rate people. Those who a patient can leave the. island if_ he gets become Fellows are very clever. Before three negative smears 1n successiOn. Dr. we took office, one lad topped the Scholar­ Gabriel is at present attending a leprosy con­ ship, Junion and Senior, and every year of ference in Tokyo. We believe that leprosy is medicine until he came to the 5th year, and Supply. [4 XOVE~IBER.] Supply. 10 7

then for some reason or other he got the their salaries will compare more than favour­ ''bug'' that he would not do medicine any ably with the salaries paid in other States. more and walked out. The previous Cabinet ·with the amendment of the superannuation "·ould know of this case. If he had stayed scheme, I should say they will be very well he would have been a great addition to the served in regard to emoluments for the work medical profession. they do. We intend to introduce something else. I have visited hospitals such as the liir. Aikens: Why not ask him back? hospital at Cairns. Dr. Lister, the superiJl­ Dr. NOBLE: He was a patient of mine. tendent there, is the best surgeon in the area, I saw him in my rooms for an hour or an but because he is a full-time officer and hour-and-a-half. He wanted to become a superintendent of the Cairns hospital, he is writer; and he will do so. He has the unable to treat patients privately. He has brains and there is nothing he could not to treat them in public \Yards, although do. many of these patients would want to be in a single room or in a room with two beds. The hon. member for Roc"khampton referred After consultation with the B.J\f.A., we to the Royal Flying Doctor Service. There is believe that superintendents should be given need for a Flying Specialist. In surgical the right of consultant pmctice. That will emergencies a specialist is often needed. not interfere with the \YOI"k they are doing When we get this service operating it will cost now, because the work at present is being £20,000 a year, but we will carry it on done in the public wards. These doctors because the people in the outback have a will not be able to run a private practice. right to the best of treatment. The only work thev will undertake is con­ The hon. member mentioned denominational sultrttim{ work on patients sent to them by homes when referring to State children and doctors in those towns. suggested there should be an increase in the lUr. Walsh: That is the thin edge of the subsidy payable for State children in our wedge in the destruction of the free hospital foster homes. Provision has been made in the scheme. Estimates for an extra payment of 10s. per "·eek per State child in institutions and Dr. NOBLE: No. to the foster parent. It will be made retro­ ~Ir. Duggan: Will they charge for that spective to 30 June when one problem COJ_l­ service~ cerning widows is solved. The amount IS Dr. NOBLE: For consultative work. A to be increased from 25s. to 35s. a week, the certain amount will go to the hospital, nnd payments to be retrospective to 30 June. a ceTtain amount to the doctor, and the liir. Power: The payment will be 35s. balance to a common pool. As these men for each child~ give their service for the State, the Govern­ ment should endeavour to keep them in the Dr. NOBLE: For each State and foster service. They sometimes leave because con­ child. :;:t would be quite impossible to keep ditions outside are better for them. V\' e are a child on 25s. a week plus chilu endowment trying to improve their conditions. If a man of 10~. I do not know how thev can be fed is prepared to stay in the hospital service, nnd clothed on that amount. I1; my opinion he should be allowed to go overseas for the extra 10s. is warranted. graduate study. He can then bring back to The hon. member for Keppcl spoke about Queensland the knowledge he has acquired a general tightening up. I do not think it overseas, which will be of benefit to the com­ is necessnry to tighten provisions. He spoke munity. As I have said, the balance of the of Dr. Cavaye, one of the best doctors in money received for this work will be put Quncnsland. I was rather surprised to hear into a common pool. At the end of every that the hon. member had received a com­ seven years, or a particular period, if plaint from Dr. Cnvaye. As a matter of sufficit>nt funds are available, the fares of fact, the only complaint by Dr. Cavaye was these men will be paid. Again, if sufficient received a couple of years ago. The wrong funds aTe still available, they will get type of trolley was sent to the hospital. It expense". They will then be a blc to spend \Yas not the type he wanted. six months overseas on graduate work. I see no danger in that plan to the free­ For the first time in Queensland the hospital scheme. At the Cairns hospital, for superintendents of our bigger hospitals ·were instance, half the inteTmedinte beds arc brought to Brisbnne to discuss the require­ being used, the reason being that Dr. Lister ments and the administration of their hos­ is doing the work in public wards. I have pitals, and the best way of carrying out spoken to patients in public wards. They their duties. The superintendents from have told me that they want single rooms or Townsville, Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton, TOoms with two beds. They want privacy. I Bundaberg, :\faryborough, Brisbane, Too­ too would like privacy, and I am sure all hon. woomba nnd Ipswich spent two clays in members would desire it. These people discussing these matters. I can assure hon. should be able to obtain the services of this mPmbers that after this discnssion thev were doctor, who is the best man at his work in well satisfied with what was being do;1e and the area. were very happy indeed a bout it. lUr. Walsh: That may be so, but you It has been said that the snlaries are not are driving the patients from the nnblic very high. With the rise that is expected, wards to the intermediate and private V.·ards. 1018 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Dr. NOBLE: I know that they can be guarantee the loans. The committees would treated by him in the public ward. The become semi-governmental bodies and would only cases he will see are those sent to him bonow in their own rights. Eventually a for consultation by doctors outside. Bill will come before the House. :::Ur. Aikens: He will get to the stage The hon. member for ChaTters Tower~ when he will not be able to do the public spoke of national medicine in England. I have not been there, but I have Tead a great ward. deal of what is happening, and of the dis­ Dr. NOBLE: I am watching the position satisfaction because the people feel that they elosely and if such a position comes about I are not getting a fair deal. At present the shall stop the practice. geneml practitioner has a tTemendous amount of woTk to do and never examines his JUr. Davies: Can you say you will not patients. He simply says, "HeTe is a serious bring in a means test? case,'' and orders the patient off to hospital. As a result, geneTal practice has come to a Dr. NOBLE: Anybody can go to the low ebb. The dissatisfaction has become so public wards for treatment by these men. great that there are now 800 odd general prac­ They are very decent gentlemen and will play titioners in private practice in London. Pre­ the game. I have confidence in them and if viously there vvas a contTibutory scheme sue!J my confidence is amiss the position will be as we have in Australia under which the people who contributed were provided with rectified. hospital accommodation. The demand for I think the hon. member for Keppel spoke s>mething of that nature in England is of clothes for the inmates of '' Eventides.'' becoming so great that it is intended to intro· My information is that they can get whatever duce a scheme similar to that in Australia clothing is required. I do not exactly know under whi~;h people can 'contribute to a what the hon. member's complaint is, but society and have their medical and hospital when a person at an "Eventide" wants a charges subsidised. As the hon. member for new issue of clothes he is able to get it. Charters Towers has said, the opinion is grow­ ing in England that the authorities went too He also spoke of the need for ambulance far and too quickly with their health benefits. brigades to have the right to borrovv. The The scheme g0t out of hand and it has not Government are looking at the matter. There been nearly as successful as those who intro­ are t>YO schools of thought about it. The first duced it thought it woulcl be. A growing is that the central ambulance committee should number of people vYant to retuTn to the pre­ be made a body corporate with the right to vious practice of consulting their own doctors borrow for the whole State, and the second and are joining the societies that I referred is that every ambulance centre should be a to so that they can be free to do so. body corporate with permission to bonow. The question is being looked at by the Crovm The hon. member spoke alco about the Law Office. 'The general feeling is that it Charters TovveTs mental hospital, where there is better to keep local autonomy. If we vvill 1Je 170 bec1s. He wondered why we dicl had successful ambulance committees, and not c;;Jpoint a resident doctor there. How· most of them are, the central executive might cn'J', there would not be enough work to keep be able to stand over these local committees 't rlcdor fully occupied. There is at pTesent by saying the~· should or should not do an e11ort to correlate the wOTk of physical i:hi•' or that. TheTe would not be t:he same am1 mental medicine, anc1 we hope in the fTee giving as theTe is at Mackay and other ne ;er fu tun to employ another doctor to places. The local ambulance committee at help Ro\Jhson at Chart."TS •rowers. Toowoomba is doing an excellent job. DL In addition, we hav·e in Tmmsville a special lUr. Walsh: And so is the Bundaberg psychiatrist vdlO visits Charters 'l'owers at

ner. I am ach-ised that there is no need for Dr. NOBLE: Yes. Dispensing is one of more beds for chronic cases in Queensland's the main subjects. Let me giYe the Com­ mental institutions. mittee the examination results. They are- The hon. member for ::\1unclingburra spoke Passed. Failed. of the need for an out-patients' clinic in June, 1955 26 29 T01msYille. \Ve might gi,-e some thought to X ovember, 1955 29 33 thot su[!gestion. Townsville is expanding June, 1956 16 22 ral'iclly ancl probably something can iJe done. N ovembeT, 1956 33 47 I cannot promise anything, but I ,,.iJ] a;;k my officers to examine the suggrstion. June, 1957 17 31 X ovembcr, 1957 36 61 The hon. member also suggested a travel­ June, 1958 30 38 ling out-patients' elinie. 'l11e proposal sounds very attractive, but it is quite possible th:1t Some canditlates sit year afteT year and some if :1 medical officer went to a place such as will never pass because they become stale. Of Rcic1 River the people of the area would make a total number of 380 who sat, from June, a sociul clay of it. The doctor might see only 1955, to November, 1957, some of them one patient in the clay, the rest of his time sitting mnny times, 157 passed and 223 being eng:1ged in talking to the people. 11ec1i­ failed. ral offir<'1'S arc very scnrce. Only a few nrc Pharmacy deserves more than a Pharmacy expected to graduate (lnring this anu the Board in Queensland. For many months I next couple of years, 'Yith the result that we have been holding discussions with the shall finrl it ,-ery hard to staff our hospitnls. Queensland University anu WC have now ruder present conditions it would he bett~r Teached a decision that the university will to give the people in outlying areas travel­ open a uegree course leading to the degree ling facilities to enable them to attend hospi­ of Bachelor in Pharmacy as from the begin­ tals in the larger centres. If the population ning of the academic year 1960. From that of nu area became Jrn·gc enough to qualif~· for time onwards any new applicant to do phar­ a clinic, it would be better to establish a macy will haY(' to go through the nniyersity. pennnncnt clinic theTe. At present some students are in the first, second and other years of their apprenticeship I si:orlcl say that 'Yithin the next five or six course and for some years the two pro­ years ,,-e sha'n have completed most of the cedures will have to run parallel to enable main .hospital building projects in Queens­ those people to complete their training. lend. \Ve can then go in for what might lw called the luxuries. I admit that it would lUr. Walsh interjected. be very goor1 to have out-patients' clinics in v:trious sub m bs ani! outlying areas and the 1\Ir. Adair: They are only glorified clay when we have them might eventnall1· gTocers, anyway. nrrh·e. At present, however, we can do nothing about it because of the shortage of Dr. NOBLE: They should not be, con­ medical men. sideTing the responsibility entailed. The good chemist is very well trained. The h011. member referreu also to the Phar­ mac;~· Boanl and implied that it failed students Mr. Walsh: We have not very many dis­ in order to limit the number w.ho can practise. pensing chemists today. Onl~· recently a lady complained to me that her son was quite convinced that he had Dr. NOBLE: We will when the pacsed his final pharmacy examination, and university takes over. The Pharmacy Board I thought there might l1P something in some is now trying to reach agreement on a proposal of the stories that I had heard. I saiil to to put to me to enable those now serving m;· officer, ''If these allegations nre t1·ue I their apprenticeship to qualify. When it '"ill alter the practice. I will not a How an;· is submitted we will be able to introduce victimisation or any such happening with legislation. the Pharmacy Board.'' So I called for the papers of some of the sturlents who hnd :ur. Aikens: The new scheme as failed and in particular for the paper of envisaged by you will remove the odour. the student >~·hose mother had called on me. There was no '"aY in the world that he could Dr. NOBLE: That is right. h:n·e pa~'cd. Hi; work wns nowhere near the The hon. member for Baroona spoke of 1Jass stanclard. I do not know much about the District Nurses' Association, the Blue rh'lrmncoy, but e.-en I could see some g;aring Nurses and the Brown Sisters. I agree with mistakes. \Vhen I showed his paper to a man him wholeheartedly about the great value of mell .-ersecl in the subject he said that there their work. He spoke too of the Q.A.T.B. wns no way in the world he could have been ancl their proposal to charge in accident passed nncl that if the patient hall been giwn cases. It was put to me by the ambulancr the nceilicinP prescribed in two instances he committees throughout Queensland that most probably '"oulcl have died. of the cases they have to attend are motor accident cases. ·They will not be charging lUr. Walsh: Would the failures relate for cut hands and minor injuries of that to a particular subject? sort. 1020 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

~Ir. Power: It has been put to me that about the South Brisbane Hospital. I think people who subscribe to the Brisbane ambul­ it is no worse than the Emerald Hospital. ance and who meet with an accident in I should be the last in the world to deny any Sandgate have to pay the Sandgate ambul­ person the right to health ser\'ices, but at ance for bringing them up to the hospital. the same time each and e>·crvone is entitled to expect just treatment. I c"ontend that the Dr. NOBLE: I understand they are not hospital at Emerald was built more for going to do that. political purposes than for anything else. The 3Ir. Power: I do not know whether it is Emerald Hospital was opened in 1950. It true but that is what has been put to me. cost £352,000; if it were built today the cost 1rould be far greater. A total of 49 beds Dr. NOBLE: I promise the hon. gentle­ are available but the aYerage daily rate in man that I will investigate the matter. 1956-1957 1vas 19 and in 1957-1958 it I do not know how drugs can be further was 15.8. .controlled. The Queensland regulations are the strictPst in Australia. They are so strict 1Ur. Davies: What year did the hon. that many other States have adopted them. member say it was opened"? If there is any sort of drug addiction in Queensland it must be because of pedlars and .LUr. HEWITT: 1950. Surely the they are a matter for the Commonwealth figures indicate that the hosnital is far too Government, not the State. I have already large. It has prevented ~ther desening spoken about the Cairns Base Hospital. I towns from haying a hospital. That brings give a good deal of praise to Mr. Tom me to the township of Theodore, so well Briggs, the Superintendent of the Aerial known to many hon. members because of the Ambulance. He is at a disadvantage com­ irrigation scheme that has been in the public pared with the Flying Doctor. The pilot in eye for so many years. The Government spent eharge of a plane used as an aerial ambul­ £1,250,000 on that scheme, but the people ance has to make up his mind whether flying in the area perhaps one of the most difficult eonditions warrant taking the risk of convey­ to get out' of, have been denied a hospita!· ing a patient back to the base hospital, In that town and district there are approxi­ whereas the Flying Doctor can treat a patfent mately 1 500 people and 300 or 400 children on the spot and remain there if necessary. of school age, but they have n? _hospi_tal. Mr. Briggs has been very careful in the That is an indictment of past admm1strabon. way he has controlled his aerial ambulance The hon. member for Belyanclo must take his service. Because of his efficiency there have share of the blame because, as hon. members not been any accidents with the aerial ambul­ know, Theodore and Emerald were originally ance in recent years. in the old Normanby electorate. I urge the I was pleased to hear the praise of Mr. Minister to see what can be clone for this 0 'Leary and Mr. Killoran for their wo: k on township. It is a very deserving case. Thursday Island. When I was at Thursday At Cracow which is 31 miles away, the ho"­ Island last year, as the '' Melbidir'' was pital was '~ithout a doctor for 2~ years until drawing away from the wharf with Mr. recently. Prior to his arrival the nearest 0 'Leary on board some of the old islanders hospital was 70 miles away and the were weeping at the thought of his leaving. roads were anything but good. The It impressed me that during his time he must other towns could be easily isolated from haYe done a great job among these people. Theoclore in times of flood. I urge the l\linister to go into the matter fully and see I think that covers most of the points \Yhat can be done to provide this hospital raised so far. nertl. At present there is an excellent clinic, ancl outpatient building, erected by liir. HEWITT (Mackenzie) (8.27 p.m.): the past Government at a cost of I congratulate the Minister on the efficient £6,000 on m1 area of fiye acres which would manner in which he has carried out his be a splendid site for a hospital. In order duties since he took over his portfolio. He to giYe the Committee some idea of the work has clone an excellent job firstly because he cnnied ont I shall give some figures relating is a man fully qualTiied for thP job and to ambulance bearers. The honorary ambu­ secondly because he has two feet on the lance bearers worked 1,400 hams during the ground, and is at all times prepared to see past 12 months apart from the superin­ the other person's point of view. I pay tendent's time. There has been an tribute to all officers of the Department of increase in the number of patients Health and Home Affairs who have been treated at the Theodore clinic. The number most co-operative and helpful during our treated in 1955-1956 was 964, with 1,704 term of office. On many occasions they haYe yisits, in 1956-1957 the number treated was gone out of their way to do things which 1 356 and the number of yisits was 2,237, and were really not their duty. I express my i;1 1957-1958 the number of patients treated appreciation and the appreciation of the was 1,403 and the number of visits was 2,252. electors of JI/Iackenzic to these officers. These figures do not include private visits The Minister spoke of the excessive expendi­ to doctors at Biloela or Rockhampton. There ture incurred during the time of Labour's is no hospital closer than 70 miles to which administration in Queensland. He talked expectant mothers may go. Supply. [4 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1021

The figures relating to cases are as only a very small home of two bed­ follows:- rooms. He applied to the previous Government for an additional sleep. Transport I Office Cases Miles out so that he could have proper accommoda­ Year. Cases. · I travelled. ------tion for his children. The work would have cost approximately £750, but it did not receive 1955-56 368 1,095 12,283 the consideration it deserved. The Minister was in Clermont recently and the subject was 1956-57 320 867 13,388 raiseil with him. Having looked at the home pro·dded for Dr. :r'arrelly, the Minister was 1957-58 495 1,600 18,655 fully satisfied that the work was warranted, and did not hesitate to correct the former Government's unsatisfactory decision. I do lt is a great hardship for expectant mothers not think any hon. member would begrudge to go to Rockhampton or Biloela. If the anything within reason to doctors who prac­ _previous Government had given thought to tise in these areas. these things there would not have been the waste of money that occurred in Emerald in On that trip the Minister also inspected order to supply 49 beds with a daily average work being undertaken by the Department of 15.8, while other people went withou,; a of Native Affairs in my electorate. Mr. l10spital. I have experienced this uphappy 0 'Leary, who was with the Minister, is as .state of affairs very acutely because highly regarded at Woorabinda as he is on it caused the loss of the life of my Thursday Island. He has a very great under­ eldest child when it was two years of age. 'l'he stamling of the problems of coloured people. wastage that was incurred for political pur­ We must all try to understand their problems poses was something most damnable and and endeavour to have them assimilated in the something which has reflected no credrt on white population. Foleyvale, which is con­ the past administratio~~. trolled by the Native Affairs Department, is not being used at the present time to the Emeral

Mr. Davies: Whose electorate will they ~Ir. Duggan: Was the :Minister respon­ be in~ sible for the location of the pipes~

Mr. HEWITT: The hon. member was in ~Ir. HEWITT: The ex-Minister should the previous Government. There is little for have satisfied himself about things generally which they can be given credit. and had a look round. He, as head of the It is difficult to keep doctors in outside department, is responsible. When we note areas. Dr. Farrelly who has been stationed the loss of revenue that took place at Clermont for some years is an excellent through the very incompetent way in doctor. He has several children, but he has which the past administration allowed 1022 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. this place to run along, it would by the people of the Bush Children's Health pay hou. members of the former Government Scheme and by all the other organisations tu keep out of the argument. T.hings nre that eater for spastics and other handicapped there for them to see. If they are not pr'­ people. pared to find out for themselves somebody ~l10Lild bring these matters to the notice of Jir. DEWAR (Chermside) (8.51 p.m.): I the people. Before Yery long, hon. m em hers congratulate the Minister on the undoubted opposite 1Yil! be telling us that we h:we left enthusiasm he has shown in applying him­ many things undone, and it is only right thnt self to his task. There is no doubt that the the people of Queensland should know 1vlwt combination of the medical man and the sympathetic heart, as we see it in him, augurs has be m going on. I belieYe that the ~~Iini -­ tor and the officers of the Sub-Department of well for the future health of the community. Native Affairs are now 1vorking on a scheme I intend to speak on two subjects-the to bring the Foleyvale and \Y oorabinda cattle :\Ietropolitan Fire Brigade Board and the properties into full production, which is the State Children Department. purpose for which they were originally estab­ Firstly I should like to correct what I lished. We as a Govcmment are responsible thought was an unfair suggestion by the tu the peopk. It is their money that js Press about fonr or five months ago when l"cing spent, nncl they must be giF~n the reporting that the Government had marle !Jig·llest possiule return. some changes in the appointments to hospital !1fr. Davies: Is it right that they got £60 boards and fire brigade boards. It left the a .head for cattle from the Foleyvale area t undoubted suggestion that the Minister had made the changes because of the inefficiency ]fr. HEWITT: It would not be surpris­ of the previous GoYernment 's appointees. I ing, because that area has enjoyed a very refer particularly to the former hon. member good season and cattle prices have been for Kelvin Grove, Mr. Turner, who had Yery high. On the same clay, bullocks served as Government representative, on the sold up to £85 n head. I am not Metropolitan Fire Brigade Board. In the condemning either the cattle or the people, first place, the Minister is not capable of but the administration of previous Govern­ making suggestions of that type and, in the ments. As a business manager I always held second place, eYeryone knows that the myself responsible to the people who employed appointments made to the Metropolitan Fire me, not to the people under me. The same Brigade Board are made purely on the basis remarks apply to a Government. The pre­ that the Government in power at the time vious Minister should have made sure that desire to have one of their representatives the place was fully productive and that as on the board. It is simple as that. mneh revenue as possible was earned. Before very long I am sure that production will Jir. Duggan: Why should that be increase. There are many thousands of acres necessary if the Government say they do not of scrub country on the property that should cl etermine the policy of the boards? have been ''pulled'' and grassed years ago. \Ve cannot expect country such as that to be JUr. DE WAR: I will answer that in a moment. That is the only reason why Mr. put into production overnight, but 1Yhen it Turner's appointment 1Yas terminated and is "pulled" and watered it will fatten from Yvhy I YYas appointed to the board in his 800 to l ,000 bullocks a year. stead. Farming should be a secondary considera­ }fr. Walsh: Spoils to t11e victors! tion on a property that was acquired for cattle raising. The main purpose underlying Mr. DEWAR: Hon. members opposite it 1ms to fatten cattle from Woorabincla and ~ecm to be very unhappy about something Cherbomg. When it is fully productive in they crea tecl themselves. that respect, consideration can be given to farming and other activities. There has never }Ir. Walsh: Why not be frank about it? been any shortage of labour on the propcrt:-. Jir. DEWAR: I am frank. I am telling Many aboriginals are RVailable from \Yoora­ the hon. member that he is not even happy binda, and up to 40 or 50 men have been about something his Government created employed. That would be a dream to anyone thenu;elves. At the time the report appeared else with a property in that district. in the Press Mr. Turner was upset about it Jir. Clarlre: Foleyvale grows very good and he came to a morning tea that the new 1Yheat. board gave the old board. The members of the board at the time who had served on the ::!Ir. HEWITT: That is a very pertinent olr1 board indicated quite clearly that Mr. interjection. As I said em·lier, if the farm Turner had serYecl the Metropolitan Fire had been established on a sensible sit•: instead Brigade Board in a manner befitting a man of in a place where the crops were frequently in his position and that in no way could any washed away, it 1\ould probably have been a fnult be found with his services. For that paying ventme. reason, and in view of the publication of the In conclusion, let me express my apprecia­ report, I thought I should make that state­ tion and the appreciation of the people of my ment in the Chamber. The Metropolitan electorate of the very good work done volun­ Fire Brigade Board was very pleased with his tarily by the Crippled Children's Association, services. Supply. [4 NOVEl'llBER.] Supply. 1023

lUr. Davies: It would have been much engines throughout the State. After some :rnore gracious if you had left it unsaid. discu:;sion in this direction suitable plans were drawn and arrangements made with the IUr. DEWAR: I find it hard to follow Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board for its the hon. member's reasoning at any time. motor mechanic Carver to :fit to country :fire Hon. members opposite have really excelled brigades chassis the necessary power-take-off themselves tonight. and pump, and a body was built on the I propose to give now an outline of >vhat chassis locally. is done by the Metropolitan Fire Brigade These arrangements proved very satis­ Board. The present board began its opera­ factory but unfortunately the power-take-off tions in 1921 after it absorbed a number of units had to be purchased outside the State. suburban fire brigade boards. It then became There was a verv considerable delay in the the Metropolitan Fire Brigade Board. The delivery of these" items with the result that areas covered by the new Board were: the there was a great delay in the completion of ·City, South Brisbane, Toowong, Ithaca, each :fire engine unit. Again, after consulta­ Albion, Nundah and Hamilton. Since then tions and continued discussions between the Board's district has grown to a marked officers of the Department of Health and degree. 'rhe Board now controls 17 :fire Home Affairs and the ?\fetropolitan Board's stations. Whereas the estimated expenditure staff, arrangements were made for power­ for 1921 was £19,729 it is today £594,821. take-offs to be manufactured locally. This in These :figures are given as a guide to the turn has saved considerable time. growth of the :fire brigade organisation 1n The Committee may not realise it but the the Metropolitan area from 1921 to the Metropolitan Fire Brigade Board has built present time. Whilst the numbers of officers these units under the direction of its technical and :firemen have greatly increased over the men for the various :fire brigade boards of the same period, wages and salaries are now Stnte. Excellent units are being turned out somewhere about 80 per cent. of the board's at a cost that is saving the Metropolitan total expenditure each year. All :fire brigade Board and the various other boards consider­ -equipment is expensive. For instance :fire able sums of money. To date pumps and hose runs out at a cost of approximately 5s. power-take-offs have been :fitted to fire-engine a foot. Fire engines and pumps are also chassis for fire brigade boards at Barcaldine, .costly items. The Metropolitan board some Mt. Isa, 1Iurgon, Dalby, Atherton, vVinton, years ago gave consideration to the matter Mackay, Blackall, and Boonah. That gives of endeavouring to minimise the cost of com­ some idea of the services rendered to the plete :fire engines and to this end evolved a various :fire brigade boards of the State by body for :fire engines know as tho Tmns­ the Brisbane Metropolitan Fire Brigades verse-seat type which replaced the Braidwood­ Boan1. type. With the Braidwood-type the :firemen ·0tood on the nmning board and held onto a In passing I urge the Government to give rail running the length of the :fire engine, consider:,tion to more :financial assistance for whereas with the Transverse-seat type thEy :fire :fighting within the :field of thP rural sit on cushioned seats on the vehicle itself. brigades boanl. About two or three months ago at the small north coast beach resort of A :fire engine is, of necessity, a high­ Coolum I noticed a very bad fire adjacent to powered unit because it is called upon to the Lutheran Youth Hostel that is being built operate a water pump for use in cases where theTe. I calle 1 out to a neighbour and >Ye there is no town >vater supply and use has to both >vent np to the hill. It app~arec1 likely be made of static water supplies either in that the new hostcl >Youlcl be burnt. A young creeks, dams, house tanks or rivers. lad was tTying to holcl back a :fire with a Some few years ago the Metropolitan Boanl front of half a mile. \'." c went to his assist­ through its technical officers conceived the anc,·, allt1 >Ye c'cnt wonl to the local picture idea of getting away fTom what is kna>Yn as theatre foT volunteers. Later about ten men a stero-type complete :fire engine unit, and who >vere membeTs of the rural :fire-:fighting adopted the principle of pmcha sing a motor group fought the :fiTe faT three hours. They <>hassis locally and having a body and also a were fully dressed and went straight in to pump :fittecl. The advantages of this idea are fight the fire. I never saw men work harder. that the overall cost is greatly reduced. The I -was flisgustccl to learn that they did not 1'ody is made to the particular :fire brigade get one penny tmmrcls the cost of buying boards' own design and also the pump is equipment. \Vhen they wanted funds they had :fitted in the position desired by the particular to go begging to the various people to Taisc board. a few pounds to purchase their needs. If there is any system that evolved out of the Within the State of Queensland there are chaos of the previous 30 years that is cleseTV­ 75 :fire brigade boards. It woulcl be under­ ing of criticism then surely this is one. I standable that each board would have its own sincerelv trust the Government will take a ideas about equipment, within certain limits. sympatl~etic view of this matter instead of Some few years ago the Queensland Govern­ considering political repercussions as was ment sought the advice and guidance of the done by previous Governments, and that they technical officers of the Metropolitan Board, will see that the rural :firemen who are particularly motor mechanic Carver with volunteers will at least be supplied with funds regard to a standardisation policy for :fire to purchase equipment. 1024 Supply. [ASSEMEL Y.] Supply.

I wish to say a few words on the State boys up to 15 years as against a single Children Department, and to refer to the com­ system such as operates at Westbrook. That ments made by the hon. member for Hock­ would be a step in the right direction. Boys hampton. I refer to the statement made by of different ages should be segregated. It the Director, Mr. Harris on page 7 of his is not desirable to have boys of 13 to 15 report. It reads as follows- years mixing IYith hardened types between '' Much has been said lately about delin­ 16 and 18 years. The setting of up an inter­ quency but, with over 34 years' experience mediate institution would allow far greater at this Home, I would say that the real educational facilities to be provided. Instead cure to the whole problem is not what the of endeavouring to make farmers of boys Government should be doing but, instead, who have no bent for farming, the general what the parents should be doing towards standard of education could be raised so that the proper upbringing of their children.'' boys would be less likely to return to the type of life they led before they were I am not going to disagree with that state­ committed to the institution. Added space ment; on the contrary I could not agree more could be created by doing away with one with those comments. As one who was of the dormitories. I think that the provison associated with the committee which inquired of tutors for night classes and a greater into the problems of youth, I say without study and recreation area \Yould be a step equivocation that the blame for 99 per cent. in the right direction. of the cases of juvenile delinquency rests on the shoulders of the parents. There is no :ilir. Davies: When did you expect to doubt about that. All the evidence I heard present your report? dming the last 12 months points to that. Parenthood, if accepted, is a most thrilling lUr. DEWAR: It is virtually complete. It is in the hands of members of the com­ responsibility, and the greatest thing that mittee with the idea of knocking it into shape any person can enter into. The forming of for presentation to the Premier. child charactcT is one of life's most exciting experiences. PaTents who fail to discharge I think that we would do well to think in their Tr~ponsibilities to theiT childTen deserve terms of altering the name of the State the indictment of the community. It should Children Department to the Child Welfare be possible to force them by law to accept Department. Whether we like it or not the those Tesponsibilities. cold fact of the matter is that there is a certain stigma attached to a child who comes The report of the Director of the State from a particular institution whether it be Children Department contains figures for a foster home, a State home, or a church children's courts. In 1956-1957 there were home or a prison farm. I know that 392 c,~ses in the metropolitan area ancl 350 most children are cruel at heart. One sees in the country areas, whereas this year accord­ one's mvn children doing cruel things and if ing to the report the cases in the metropolitan we are honest we would admit that we have area numbered 529, an increase of 33!! per clone them ourselves. I went to the Wooloowin cent., aud 362 in country areas, a very small State school and next door was the Wooloowin increase. The increase is confined almost Home. It was a common practice when a boy entirely to the metropolitan area and large fell out with one of the lads from the Home provincial tmYns. The problem must be to refer to him as a State kid. If ever handled in a different way. If the report to children are deserving of love and affection be presented to the Government is imple­ of people surely they are the young children mented, I am sure it will be for the benefit in our State institutions who have been of the cc!Yl!!l:lility. deprived of the natural Ion and affection of Penalties should be clearly defined. I parents. They have been deprived of that mention a typical instance to prove my point. because their parents are dead or something Two brothers came before a court, the older has happened to cause them to be in a boy being fined £1, while the younger boy who position where it is necessary for the State needed more help \\-as committed to West­ to haYe care of them. In some way some brook for three years. That disparity in adult has failed the children. Su.rely the sentence does not inspire confidence in the people of the community should extend to present system. That aspect will have to be these young people whatever love and affec­ considered in due course. tion they can. I earnestly suggest that the Greater attention must be paid to removing namr of the dep:utment be changed to that the cause of problems. I suggest first of of the C'hild Welfare Department so that as all the establishing of a children's court time passes on there may be removed the clinic. Psychologists, social workers and stigma of being referred to as a State child. others in that field could do work of inestim­ Do not condemn them; let us try to help able value. The committee hopes an adequate tl1em. probation system will be established. In I want to congratulate the Government on addition to children's court clinics, there is a the re-establishment of the grant to the great need for child guidance clinics. Children Marriage Guidance Council. A sum of £500 can be referred to those clinics, and parents was given by the Labour Government to that could seek advice in regard to their children. council but next year it was refused. In The committee also hopes to see the estab­ the first year of office of the present Govern­ lishment of an intermediate institution for ment a grant of £500 was made and this year Supply. [4 NovE:omER.] Supply. 1025

it will be £1,000. The new approach to very high rank in the Cabinet. Today, how­ things is something we can be proud of. If ever, with uniform taxation and the alloea­ there is one organisation in this city doing tion of funds from the Loan Council, he no an excellent job for the future youth of the longer occupies in his own right the status community it is the Marriage Guidance that he enjoyed previously. The Minister for Council. It is performing a function in the Transport, if he takes a close interest in his community never performed by any Govel·n­ department, has a very great responsibility ment. It is one that is capable of expansion. to discharge. But beyond that, I should say It is only by the continued support by this that the Minister for Health and Home or any Government that this organi~ation of Affair~, if he has a humanitarian outlook and voluntary reople has any chance of sunival. is conscious of the great opportunitips that lie in his hands to do something worth while It is perhaps well to know that the greatest in the community in the fielcl of public health amount of good, generally speaking, done in aml the various social services, has tremen­ the community with regarcl to under-privileged dous responsibility too. children is initiated not by Governments but by private individuals. I refer T.he present Minister can consider himself particularly to the work that is being fortunate in assuming a portfolio that was 1mdertaken at the Montrose Home, which built up over a period of years by succes­ was started by the Brisbane Rotary Club, the sive Lrrbour Governments, which left in his Spastic Centre at Kew Farm, which was hands a network of excellent public hospitRls started by the Valley Rotary Club, and the throughout the St:1te with facilities far in Sub-normal Children's Association, which was excess of those m·ailable in any other State. started by groups of private people. All He has now the opportunity of building those excellent works in the community were further on the foundations that were laid by started not by Governments but by private previous Labour Governments. One of the people who recognised the need for them and great monuments to the work of Labour in took action. Once they did something, the this country, and particularly in Queensland, Government came in with £1-for-£1 subsidies. lies in the development of our hospital services. At a period when surgical cases There is a great need for work to help the were bdng either denied or delayed in most c·ouug people of this State, whether they are of the southern hospitals, it was always pos­ :1ffiicted mcnt:1Uy or physically, or whether sible to get surgical :1ttention at almost every they have been deprived of the natural love hospital in Queensland. :111cl affection of their own parents. As I say, much remains to be done and I do not think On the Minister's own admission, we have more satisfying work could be found in any now reached the stage where in many towns sphere of activities. throughout Queensland there is an excess ('l'ime expired.) public bed capacity. Therefore, because of the work of previous Labour Administrations, he lUr. DUGGAN (North Toowoomba­ is in a position to introduce further refine­ Leacler of the Opposition) (9.16 p.m.): Many ments in public .health policy that should 1e medical and pharmaceutical terms have been of benefit to the people generally. used in the Chamber today, but after listen­ ing to the Minister's two contributions one The Minister has been extremely plausible would J'Crhaps be pardoned for thinking that in his contributions to the debate. I have he regards as the main requirement of hon. always acknowledged that he is by far the members a very large dose of Mother Seigel 's most plausible of all the Ministers. He has l::loothing Syrup. Rarely have I listened to a nn easy, suave way of speaking and is bring­ Minister who has praised so much the work ing into his parliamentary responsibilities one of his department or to one who has said of those qualities that one very often associ­ tlwt it is functioning so perfectly that there ates with the medical practitioner who builds is no room for criticism. However, it is very up a large private practice, as the hon. mem­ good to !mow that the Minister thinks that ber for Ithaca .has said, because of his Yery the efficiency of his department is beyond attractive bedside manner. He tried to lull question. His is one of the most responsible us into a sense of complete acceptance that portfolios in the Cabinet. I point out that everything was well in Queensland. I shall of the total Rppropriations thi,s year of some­ resen·e judgment because, on the advice of thing like £101,000,000, almost £15,000,000 his own spokesmen here, he has much to live hrrs been allocated to the Department of up to. I am sure that when he reads in the Health and Home Affairs. That means that ' 'Hansarcl' ' proof tomorrow of the various in ewry £7 to be expended by the Govern­ responsibilities said by hon. members to attach ment, roughly £1 is to be applied to the to his portfolio he will realise that he has a services and instrumentalities that come wry heavy duty to discharge. within this sphere of his administration. I want at this stage to go on record as saying that the :Minister himself in the debate The Minister should be conscious of the reaffirmed in very strong l:1nguage that it is wry great responsibility that is crrst upon the considered :1nd definite policy of the him. I suppose that the Premier, who has an Government to maintain free hospitalisation overrrll responsibility for the actions of his in the State. Government, must accept the No. 1 position. In the old days the Treasurer, too, held a Dr. Noble: That is very true. 1026 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

lUr. DUGGAN: I recall that in 1957 Mr. DUGGAN: I will come to that. If' when he was addressing a meeting in support that is true, I do not think the Mniister can of the Liberal candidate for Merthyr in the take a>vay from previous Labour administra­ electorate of the previous I\1inister for Health tions credit for what they did despite his and Home Affairs he said- allegations that we incurred excessively high '' The Liberal-Country Party Government building costs and excessively high adminis­ will retain the free hospital system. \Ve tration costs. How can his statements be know it is a cherished possession of the reconciled~ How can it be true that the people of this State and any interference previous administrations were guilty of incom­ with it would be fatal for any political petence and extravagance, that they built party.'' unnecessary hospitals, that they had heavy administrative costs and that they duplicated That is a strong enough drclaration facilities when, on the Minister's own declar­ reaffirmed tonight. ation, the administration of public hospitals Dr. No,ble: I will reaffirm it now, too. in Queensland costs less than that of the other States? He cannot have it both ways. }Ir. DUGGAN: All right. I am glad to There cannot be an indictment of the previous lwYo that deelaration. I hope the 1\Iinister administrations on the score of extravagance will adhere to it. The ::\Jinister has made and inefficiency, and at the same time an many promises here that I hope he can escaping of the requirements of the Common­ fulfil. wealth Grants Commission because of lower costs of administering the hospital service. I am not going to cnvil at all)' of the 1·efincments of health pcliey or suggestions for Dr. Noble: Building costs will not enter its improverEent. The ::\Iinistcr will not find into the determination of the Commonwealth me :m irnsnonsible critic in matters that Grants Commission on the claimant State he believes >~·ill be of benefit to the people application because in the other States the of the State. I am not going to sa:· that Works Department builds the hospitals or the it is wrong that he should have an increased separate hospital boards and not the Healt11 appropriation this year. It is interesting to departments. note, however, the last year the allocation for his department was not expended, which lUr. DUGGAN: It does not depend g·ives room for speculation. Of the £7,130,000 entirely on the capital costs of building at voted, only £6,351,000 was spent. The whole all. The Minister himself spoke about the emphasis today has been that mOTe money duplication of facilities. He referred to the has been spent by the department. Southport hospital where he proposes to save so much money. If he can do it, I com­ The point I am leading up to is that mend him for it. He has given high praise the Treasurer has accused the previous Labour to the officers of his department. He has administrations of not husbanding the claimed that his Under-Secretary was the finances of the State in a way that reflected most efficient hospital administrator in the the true financial position and he has given Commonwealth. He has referred to every a very clear indication that at the end of officer mentioned as the most efficient man in this financial year every major trust fund his field. He referred to the surgeon in will have been used, and in addition to that, Rockhampton as being a most outstanding we will show a substantial deficit. He snid surgeon. He mentioned someone elsYas to When he was referring to the hospital at focus the attention of the Commonwealth Emerald he spoke about someone else as being Government on the fact that the time has an outstanding man there. now come for Quenesland to be a claimant State. He said that very definitelv. If Dr. Noble: The superintendents of our that is the ease and if one of the fund:i'mental hospitals do not deal with administration. principles that detennine the policy of the Commonwealth Grants Commission is that ltrr. DUGGAN: The important point I there must not be in any one State a system want to make is that apparently the Minister of administration above the general average has a staff of highly competent men. I hope obtaining in the other States, then the State he has. He is in a better position to assess with that system >Yill not qualify for assist­ their qualifications than I. I know some of ance from the Commission, I suggest to him them personally. They appeal to me as being that as we have a free hospitalisation svstern efficient, courteous and helpful officers but I in Queensland, which does not obtain i~ any am not in the same position as the Minister other State of the Commonwealth, surely to assess their qualifications. Surely to good­ that vYill be one of the measuring sticks that ness the hon. gentleman cannot lay his accus­ the Grants Commission will apply in due ation at the door of any previous Minister for course. Surely they will say, ''You have a Health and Home Affairs, no matter how in­ free hospitalisation system, a luxury that can­ efficient he may have been. After all, he not be provided by any of the other States." tells us that he has such a galaxy of talent in his administration. Whv is it then that Dr. Noble: They take comparative somebody along the line did not detect the costs as between claimant and non-claimant so-called extravagances~ He says that he States. has the same hospital architects, the same Supply. [4 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1027 officers within his department. Would they Dr. ~o.ble: You will admit that very big have permitted, as charged in his indictment, hospitals become unwieldy? the construction of hospitals that ~;·ere unnec­ essarily costly? It does not make sense to JUr. DUGGAN: I agree there is a point me. I do not claim any particular intelli­ there. It is difficult to draw the line of gence or application but in the whole of my demarcation. In this modern age when acci­ ten years in the n1inistry not once did I go dents happen with dramatic suddenness and against a major departmental recommenda­ people suffer multiple injuries there is great tion unless I argued it out in great detail benefit in having a panel of experts. A with my officers. Many times I over-rode the whole panel of specialists were waiting at the recommendations of departmental offi,~el'S but Brisbane operating theatre to attend to the invariably when major expenditme was man who had been attacked by a shark, and involved there was complete agreement he was saved. On the Minister's own admis­ between myself and the principal officers in sion it is of great help to have specialists the Railway Department. I suggest that for immediate consultation. The Minister would be the policy that would apply now. referred to the man who may be groping in the dark at Julia Creek, and how sorry every­ Dr. Nob le: The pattern of the expensive body feels for the young man who takes on hospital building was formed in the time his hospital responsibility feeling uncertain. of Mr. Charles Chuter. At that time the advice given to them by the British Medical Dr. Noble: I am trying to overcome Association and other authorities was against that. the establishment of very expensive buildings. That is when the policy was first developed. lUr. DIJGGAX: I am all for it. In principle I am all for your plans to improve Jt has been carried on ever since, the professional status of these men and to .:Ur. DIJ'GGAN: I am not going to argue create more incentive . in detail on this matter, suffice to say that Dr. Noble: It is not necessary to have when I have visited hospitals in other States two base hospitals in the metropolitan area. I have noticed that they have followed the general pattern. As the Minister well know~, ~Ir. DUGGAN: I am not going to argue there are architects like Addison and that particularly. The hon. gentleman did McDonald, who specialise in hotel buildings, not say very much that was critical of the \Thilc others specialise in hospital buildings. administration. Everything was lovely. Since Would the hon. member suggest that they the Minister has been there he has been would design expensive buildings because of acting in a manner reminiscent of a Minister the six per cent. they geU I know that with whom I was associated saying, "I will these people have travelled widely. In pre­ have a look at that.'' If I am any judge paring plans they apply the benefit of their the hon. gentleman will completely forget knowledge by excluding practices which have about it when he gets away. I do not say been found to be uneconomical or undesirable that with any sense of injustice. I will make in some way. it my business to check in the period ahead to see how many of these fulsome promises There are too many contradictions in the are brought to fruition. If they are I shall speech made by the Minister for Health and be the first to congratulate the J'.l[inister. Home Affairs. He claims that it is possible to effect an extraordinary reduction in costs I hope that the Minister ~;·ill approach the of hospital buildings. I have not had any problem of fellowships in a very realistic ey·idence from the Minister of how he intends way. By 1963 \Ye will have 279 fellowship or to bring this about except his glib assurance. scholarship-holders and 34 graduates in I am not being disrespectfuf in any way medicine. The previous Labour administration because I respect his professional competence realised because of the altered system of in these things. private practice it may be a good develop­ ment. In the past I can remember getting There has been consistent criticism of the Dr. Connolly at 2 o'clock in the morning on system of base hospitals and specialising. many occasions to attend a chronic asthma But I have yet to be convinced that the esta:J­ case. He would come round in 10 minutes in lishment of small cottage hospitals is neces­ his pyjamas. How many cases are there today sarily a sound policy. There is a considerable where you find a doctor doing that. amount of merit in the policy laid down in Instead we have a disinclination to cater for Mr. Chuter 's time as Under SecretarY. He the outside normal hours medical service, and may have made mistakes bnt he was ·a very instead have partnerships which make profes­ capable officer. He grew up with an expand­ sional practise so much easier. Today there is ing hospital service. I know that other a series of partnerships. Their gross income States have watched our Child vVelfare is in the vicinity of £6,000. Allowing 33 per Department and our dental services. Our hos­ cent. for expenses the net income would be pital services have formed the pattern for £4,000, which is far in excess of the amount hospital administration policy in other s-tates. paid to Dr. Pye at the Brisbane Hospital I am not going to say what is the maximum and others occupying important positions. optimum size for a hospital. Whether it should ])e 500 beds, 700 beds or 250 beds I am not Dr. NoJJle: What salary does Dr. Pye going to argue. get? 1028 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

lUr. DUGGAN: I have not got the exact Dr. Noble: We can always get superin­ figure. tenden,ts for our base hospitals. Dr. Noble: £4,500 and a free house. Jlir. DUGGAN: On the Minister's own 1\Ir. DUGGAN: He is worth every bit of admission medical men will not stay at it. When I asked a question of the Premier hospitals in isolated areas. about sending Dr. Pye abroad the hon. Dr. Noble: You do not know anything gentleman contemptuously dismissed it and about it. said, ''The Government have no responsibility to Dr. Pye, it is the Brisbane and South lUr. DUGGAN: I do. I had something to Coast Hospitals Board. The hon. gentleman say on the system of fellowships. In architec­ had enough interest to kick some of the ture, engineering, medicine and chemistry the previous members off the Board, which indi­ Government were forced to offer fellowships, cates that it is Government controlled. If because it was not possiblP to fill vacanies members of the Brisbane and South Coast in those professions in various parts of the Hospitals Board become involved in an State such as Emerald, Julia Creek, and other administrative act that brought discredit on farwestern towns. The only way to get men the Government we would see how quickly for those positions was to offer fellowships they would move to instruct somebody on the to bright young men. The matter does not Brisbane and South Coast Hospitals Board end there, because when these men complete to get into line immediately. their period of seven years' service with the department many of them lea-re the depart­ Dr. Noble: You must admit we are ment. The Minister said he wants to retain nl'gn1din.g all these salaries. these men, and I commend him for that desire, Jir. DUGGAN: I am not against that. but there are many men attached to the \YhiJe the Government are trying to upgrade General Hospital who are more gifted than certain sections of the Public Service they these ordinary men. Frankly, I have had are fighting the rank and file tooth and nail discussions with them and they are not in on wage increases. favour of the scheme of private practice. They get no deductions for cars and various l!Ir. Cl1alk: That is not so. other things allowed for a private practitioner. Their gross salary is taxable. As t.he total cost IIIr. DUGGAN: The Minister for TranspOTt now interjects. He will have a would not be very gTeat, I think it would quarrel on his hands before he is veTy much be better if gifted men were given the older. I was the only Minister for Transport opportunity of going overseas to undertake who gave a margin to railwaymen which was postgraduate courses. If they were given a ahead of that paid in any other State, and reasonable salary as well as a superannua­ that has been acknowledged by the trade tion scheme, and had the opportunity to keep union movement. I thinl' I can claim credit in close contact with their medical confreres for that. in other States and countries, I think they would be completely satisfied. Dr. Noble: You did not know your own Act. Dr. Noble: The great bulk of the money will not be taxable. lUr. DUGGAN: In what way can that be suggested~ I can clef en cl my efforts as lUr. DUGGAN: I am not saying that the Minister for TTansport. The present Minister scheme will be rejected. I have not yet had for Transport has not the guts to introduce an opportunity of talking to all of them. the Estimates for his department. I challenge him to introduce them. He is not Dr. Noble: They are all in favour of it. game to bring them forward, although he llir. DUGGAN: Some doctors do not like was given notice 12 months ago to prepare it. They haYe probably accepted it as the them. lesser of two evils. The Minister this after­ JUr. Chalk: You were not here last year. noon said that the doctor in Cairns, because of his duties in the public section of the Jllr. DUGGAN: If I had been here, I hospital was not able to attend to those in may have prevented the hon. gentleman from the private wards. making some silly mistakes. The subject of fellowships is too serious. Dr. Noble: I did not say that. I shall not be sidetracked onto other subjects. llir. DUGGAN: I agree with the hen. I am in complete agreement with that policy, member for Mundingburra that if these but I do not agree with the Minister that doctors are given the right of private con­ the right of private practice or consultative sultation for which they will be paid, whether practice will solve the problem. a private room is made available or not for Dr. Noble: That has nothing to do with the purpose of the consultations, it is fellowships. obvious that the great majority of doctors IYill tend more and more to look after the Mr. DUGGAN: We instituted this people who consult them privately rather :-ystem of fellowships, because we were not than those who cannot afford to pay for able to recruit in the normal way men for hosnital treatment. We will be able to test these institutions. the" views of the Minister in clue course. Supply. [4 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1029'

Fortunately all these things are recorded know that every member of the staff, includ­ in '' Hansard'' and we will be able ing the nurses and the male wardsmen, do to see how the optimistic views of an excellent job. The people of Sandgate the Minister shape on trial. We will are very happy with the way in which the be able to assess the results from the ''Eventide'' home there is conducted. There trial. The action of the Minister in trying are very few complaints from any section to retain in the service of the department of the community. From inside the home men who have particular skill is to be cmn· there are occasional small complaints. For mended. There should be some system of example, a complaint was raised because the retaining them and I commend the :Minister evening meal starts at 4.30 p.m. and finishes on his general approach, although I differ at 5 p.m. with the result that there is with him in many ways. I do not want a long break before the first meal of the him to think that I am not aware of the next day. That is not a real problem, how­ positive approach that has been made. ever, because the inmates can have cups of There are other matters that I should have tea at almost any hour and they can get liked to mention but as my time is about up provisions at the local store. Naturally, the I shall content myself by saying that a evening meal must be faiTly early so that rosy picture has been painted by the :Minister the staff can finish work at a reasonable hour_ and we can only wait to see the results in Another problem at Sanclgate is the fGrt uue course. that there is one main kitchen and the meals Jir. AHEARN (Sandgate) (9.4i p.m.) : I for the women's quarters are taken round by pay tribute to tlw Minister and the officers truck. There are occasional complaints that the of his department on the work performed by food is cold by the time the women receive them. Many tributes have been paid in this it. A prorosal has been put fonYard-and debate by hon. members on both sides it is being considered by the department­ that the food for the different wards be put to the hon. gentleman :1El1 par­ ticularly was one paid by the Leader of the on heated trolley and dropped off at their Opposition. He paid perhaps the greatest separate stations so that it will remain hot. As tribute in the fear he shmved of the Minister's I 'ay, there are very few complaints about continuance with the excellent policy he has the Sanclgate home. :!'11ost of them are unjusti­ implemented, with the additional policy and :6ed and any that are well founded are given promises enunciated tonight. The Le:1de1· full consideration. of the Opposition kne\Y of the reaction this There are '' EYentide'' homes at Sanclgatc, would have on the people and the confidence Rockhampton, and Charters Towers, ani! they ~would show in us at the next election. another is being built at Maryborough. For I congratulate the Minister on the way he the benefit of hon. members who are not fam­ has even exceeded our high expectations of iliar with the statistics of the homes, I shall his capacity, qualifications and ability. mention a few that I have noted. The demand I want to speak firstly in relation to for accommodation at the homes is the care of the aged aml particularly l1eavy, but we are always able to cater for the work of the ''Eventide'' homes. urgent cases. I have learned from my own I have the largest ''Eventide'' home experience at Sandgate that urgent cases can at Sandgate. As nHmtioned in the ahvays get accommodation. Very few names report of the Director of Health and Medical are on the waiting lists. As a matter of Services, since 1900 there has been an increase fad, there is no waiting list for either male in life expectancy of 15 years due principally or fe~nale applicants at Sandgate nor is there to improved hygiene, the progress of science, anY for males at Charters Towers. There is and the introduction of new drugs, particularly n small waiting list of nine males and 20' the anti-biotics. As a result we have the females for admission to the Rockhampton problem of an increased number of aged home, and of a few female applicants for people, which number will steadily increase. (hRrters Towers. It is an economic problem as well as D The Minister pointed out that applicants physical one, because a large proportion of seeldng admission to homes for the aged arP our people are above the normal retiring age. getting more feeble, because homes conducted Because of better health facilities thev would by the church bodies are taking all the ambu­ be able in many cases to work p;ofitably latory cases and we are getting the very beyond the retiring age. We have the infirm and bedfast cases. The result is that economic condition whereby a greater amount more hospital accommodation is needed at the of social service payments has to be paid. '' F.ventide'' homes. I was very pleased to Aged people have to have com- see that at Sandgate about 12 months ago panionship. The ''Eventide'' homes of further accommodation was provided for 7S the State are able to provide care and bed cases by the conversion of ordinary companionship for the aged and me doing wards to hospital "·ards. Hon. members may a \Yonderful job in looking after the people be interestecl to know that of the 890 resi­ who have been the pioneers of the State. dents at the "Eventide" home at Sand­ They deserve the best in the eventide of their gate, 415 are hospital cases permanently m lives. The Sandgate ''Eventide'' operates bed, another 240 are very infirm, people who rery harmoniously indeed. :'\1r. Kelleher, the acquire a deal of hospital attention but not recently appointed manager has received constant hospital attention, and only 235 praise from all acquainted with him and I are ambulatory cases. In other words, only 1030 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Questions.

about one-quarter of the inmates are nble to the position of specialist in geriatrics at a get a; ound freely. Hon. members will renlise verv attractive salarv classification, and I the problems involved mainly because we have con.gratulate the Mini;ter on this move. to take all those who are bed cases. At 9.55 p.m., under Standing Order No. 307 JUr. A. J. Smith: Do you say the church and Sessional Order, progress was reported. people turu them down? The House adjourned at 9.57 p.m. I\Ir. AHEARN: No, but there is some free­ dom of selection. 'l'here is also freedom of application, and I am sure that the num­ bers find their own level. :Jir. A. J. Smith: They do not want the bed cases . .I\Ir. AHEARN: I quite agree, because they have their own system with separate cottages and naturally it suits them better. They aim to provide homes and not hospitals. A new Eventide home is being built at :"vfaryborough, and the first section is expected to be able to accommo­ date 100 beds. It is expected to be completed some time during January next year. When all the planned buildings for that establishment are erected, the total accommodation will be for 250 people. I am very pleased to note the extension of the number of Eventide homes, because those that we have have proved very efficient indeed and we will need more of them. I know the hon. member for :"vlulgrave has pressed for one in his electorate. The State spends a great deal on the homes because the department provides the food, accommodation, clothing, medical, dental and other services, and entertainment. It is pleasing to note that at Charters Towers and Snndgate bowling greens are provided for the enjoyment of the inmates and that films are screened regularly at all three homes and extensive library facilities are provided. Under the Federal Social Services Act, not controlled by us, we receive from the Com­ monwealth Government a grant of £2 12s. a week for each inmate. This money is paid to the Public Curator as determined by the Commonwealth Government. We bea~ the rest of the cost for each resident, at Sand­ gate £6 13s. 3d. a week, at Rockhampton £8 9s. a week nncl at ChaTters Towers £7 12s. 5d. a >Yeek. I am pleased to see that Sandgate is the lowest. Possibly it is because of the larger numbers. The State has to pay the amount over £2 12s. a week. Of course, it is money very well spent for the reasons I mentioned earlier. The problem of aged people is increasing all the time because of improved living standards and the availability of life-saving drugs. As they deserve, the residents receive the best of food, the best of attention and the best of drugs. Nothing is allowed to upset their span of life. It is very important that the fields of gerontology and geriatrics be explored to the utmost to overcome the pro­ blems both economic and medical. I am pleased to see any endeavour to make some tangible entrance into those fields. Applica­ tions have been invited from qualified persons in the United Kingdom and Australia for