Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 6 DECEMBER 1973

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

2308 The Criminal Code, &c., Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

TIIURSDAY, 6 DECEMBER 1973

Mr. SPEAKER (Hon. W. H. Lonergan, Flinders) read prayers and took the chair at 11 a.m.

PAPERS The following papers were laid on the table, and ordered to be printed:- Reports- Land Administration Commission, including Reports of the Surveyor­ General, Superintendent of Stock Routes and Rural Fires Board, for the year 1972-73. Department of Forestry, for the year 1972-73. State Electricity Commission of Queens­ land, for the year 1972-73.

QUESTIONS UPON NOTICE

TERMS OF WHEAT SALE TO EGYPT Mr. Houston, pursuant to notice, asked The Treasurer,- ( 1) Is he aware of the statement in The Courier-Mail of December 5 in which the Premier stated that the Commonwealth Government arranged the sale of wheat to Egypt against the wishes of the Wheat Board and that the growers would be responsible for losses? (2) As the Acting Minister for Primary Industries confirmed in his Answer to the Question by the Member for Toowoomba South on December 5 that the Common~ wealth Government would assume 75 per cent. of the risk and that the Wheat Board entered into agreements in 1971 to sell the wheat, will he correct the inaccurate and misleading statements of the Premier?

Answers:- ( 1) "I have read the report to which the Honourable Member refers." (2) "I would suggest that he re-read both the Question asked by the Honour­ able Member for Toowoomba South and the Answer given thereto. I cannot see that such Answer confirms the assertions contained in the Question now being asked by the Honourable Leader of the Opposition. I would add that the point being made by the Honourable the Premier and the Acting Minister for Primary Industries is that as the Commonwealth had required the Australian Wheat Board to sell on credit terms instead of for cash, the Commonwealth should have been prepared to underwrite the total sales." Questions Upon Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 2309

APPEALS AGAINST PROMOTION, POLICE (3) "Resignations effected between FORCE July 1, 1973 and November 30, 1973:- July (6) Sergt. 2/C-2 Marriage ( l); Other Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, asked (including 1 employment (I) The Minister for Works,- Policewoman) Constables-4 Marriage (1); Other How many police appeals against pro­ (including 1 employment (2); motion, covering all ranks, a,re awaiting Policewoman) Discontented (I) determination in each category as at August (9) Constables-9 Discontented (2); November 30? (including 2 Other employment Policewomen) (5); Due to trans­ fer (I); Unable to cope with duties Answer:- (1)

September (13) Sergt. 2/C-1 Other employment "Number of (1) Appellants Promotions Appealed Against Constables-12 Other employment (including I (5); Travelling Policewoman) abroad (3); Sep­ 2 2 Sergeants 1/C to Senior Sergeant aration from fiancee (1); Dom­ 20 8 Sergeants 2/C to Sergeant 1/C estic reasons (2); Lost desire to 13 10 Senior Constables to Sergeant 2/

Total 35 October (12) Sergt. 2/C-2 Health reasons (2) Constables-10 Other employment (7) ; Personal reasons (I); Dom­ estic reasons (1); Discontented (1)

November (16) Sergt. 2/C-2 Other employment STRENGTH AND RESIGNATIONS, POLICE (1); Personal reasons (1) FoRCE Constables-14 Other employment (including 1 (6); Travelling Mr. Newton, pursuant to notice, asked Policewoman) abroad (l); Pers­ onal reasons (1); The Minister for Works,- Health reasons (I); Marriage(!); (1) What was (a) the approved strength Discontented (1); and (b) the actual strength of the Police Unsuited to police work (2); No Force, including all ranks, as at November reason given (I) 30? Total: 56, including 6 Policewomen." (2) How many policewomen, including all ranks, were employed at the same date? (3) What was the number of resigna­ tions from the Police Force, including ranks PEARSON TRADING COMPANY from policemen and policewomen, in each month from July 1 to November 30 and Mr. Hinze, pursuant to notice, asked The what was the reason for the resignation in Minister for Works,- each category? ( 1 ) Has he heard of a company known as Pearson Trading Co. of 27 Hedges Answers:- Avenue, Broadbeach? (1) "(a) and (b)- (2) Is the company registered in Queensland or in any other State? j As at 30 November 1973 (3) Are Arthur Williamson, Gary Williamson, Ronald Barns and John Approved Actual Strength Strength McFadden connected with the company? ---- Commissioner . . . . 1 1 ( 4) Have they any convictions in this Assistant Commissioners .. 3 3 State or any other State? Chief Superintendent .. 1 1 Superintendents . . . . 14 8 Inspectors ...... 96 89 (5) Are two other men, whose names Senior Sergeants . . . . 154 137 are Cole and Crowles, associated with this Sergeants 1/C . . . . 282 241 Sergeants 2/C . . . . 560 500 company and have either or both of them Constables ...... 2,295 2,249 any convictions? Total .. 3,406 3,229" Answers:- (2)- (1) "Yes." " Sergeants 2/C 2 (2) "This enterprise is not registered or Constables .. 163 incorporated as a company in the State of Total .• 165" Queensland nor is it registered as a business name at Southport or Brisbane," 2310 Questions Upon Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

(3) "I have no information that the December 5. As well as the photograph, I persons named are connected with the also noticed that the report accompanying running of the enterprise in question but it referred to a 'mock trial' staged by all of these persons are closely associated members of the Queensland Debating with Rupert John Cole who is concerned Union and the Spartan Debating Club in the conduct of the enterprise." and to the fact that a prison inmate was dressed up as a 'comic prisoner'. The ( 4) "All of the persons named, with the ordinary Prison uniform is grey or blue exception of McFadden, have interstate denim trousers and blue headcloth or convictions." scotch twill shirting. Numbers are not (5) "See Answer to Question (3). used in Queensland Prisons." Whilst no information is available to indi­ (2) "The Valerie Ffrench shown in the cate that Crowle is associated with the photograph is the same peDson whose enterprise, he is associated with the person permit to visit the Prison as a Welfare Cole. Both Cole and Crowle are convicted Officer of an organisation which has since persons." ceased to exist, was withdrawn some time ago. However, in her capacity as Secretary of the Queensland Debating Union, she has ART CoURSE, TOWNSVILLE TECHNICAL never been barred from visiting the Prison COLLEGE as a member of that Union. For the Mr. Aikens, pur~uant to notice, asked The information of the Honourable Member, Minister for Education,- the Spartan Debating Club, which is com­ prised of prisoners of Brisbane Prison, is As a survey indicates that 50 students affiliated with the Queensland Debating are prepared to enrol for a full-time Union." course in art at the Townsville Technical College, will such a facility be provided and, if so, when and under what conditions? ALLEGATION OF CONTAMINATION, MARY­ BOROUGH WATER SUPPLY Answer:- Mr. Marginson for Mr. Blake, pursuant to "I was not aware that such a survey had notice, asked The Minister for Health,- been carried out in Townsville. No details (1) Is he aware of a Press report in of the survey were made known to me nor The Courier-Mail of December 5 regarding to officers of my Department. Without a claim that Maryborough's water supply this information it is not possible to deter­ has one of the heaviest doses in Australia mine what level of training in art is of the impurity dioxin, which is found in required. That is, whether there should the chemical hormone spray 2,4,5-T and is be co~sideration for a tertiary level co?rse, known to cause mutations and death of a certificate level course or a recreational unborn babies? course. If the Honourable Member will let me have the details of the survey and (2) Will he have the claim of con­ tamination and its alleged relationship to ~ts findings I shall have the matter fully investigated." forestry practices in the watershed area investigated as a matter of urgency?

Answers:­ NEWSPAPER PHOTOGRAPH OF PARTICIPANTS IN MOCK TRIAL, BRISBANE PRISON (!) "Yes." Mr. Aikens, pursuant to notice, asked The (2) "Yes." Minister for Tourism,- ( 1) Has his attention been drawn to a photograph in The Courier-Mail of COMMONWEALTH CONTROL OF PRICES November 5 in which prisoners in a AND HOME-CONSUMPTION PRICES FOR Queensland gaol were depicted as wearing SUGAR AND WHEAT old-fashioned, striped uniforms, with large iron balls affixed to their legs by chains Mr. Marginson for Mr. Blake, pursuant to and, if so, is this photograph factual? notice, asked The Minister for Primary Industries,- (2) Is Valerie Ffrench, who is shown in the photograph, the same person who ( 1) Is he aware of a report in The was, for some considerable time, banned Courier-Mail of December 5 which quoted from visiting any Queensland prison and, him as having said that price control could if so, when was the ban lifted and for only be bad for producers of wheat, cotton what reason? or any other commodity? (2) Is he opposed on principle to the Answers:- controlled home-consumption price of pro­ {!) "I presume the Honourable Mem­ ducts such as sugar and wheat, which are ber is referring to a photograph which presently sold for Australian consumption appeared in The Courier-Mail of far below the ruling world market price? Questions Upon Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice 2311

Answers:- Council advised that it would refuse appli­ cations for permits from Commission (1) "Yes." tenants." (2) "The report is not correct If the (3) "To all State Rental Houses in Honourable Member refers to my Answer Townsville." in Parliament on December 4, 1973, he will find that I said among other things ( 4) "The Council may have done so that the effects of price control by a where it finds a pool has been installed Federal Government could only be to the without a permit." detriment of producers. There is a vast difference between the determination of a selling price for a commodity as a result of consultation between industry and NATIONALITY OF PERSON CONVICTED Government and the imposition of an OF SEXUAL ATTACK ON ClULD, ST. arbitrary price by a central bureaucracy." LAWRENCE Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked The Minister for Justice,- SWIMMING POOLS AT HOUSING COM­ ( 1) Further to my Question of August MISSION HOUSES, TOWNSVILLE 2 regarding the charges, following a savage Mr. Tucker, pursuant to notice, asked The and bestial attack on a two-year-old girl at Minister for Works,- St. Lawrence, against a man alleged to be an illegal Papuan immigrant and his sub­ ( 1) Has the Queensland Housing Com­ sequent conviction in the Rockhampton mission advised the Army headquarters at Supreme Court, is the convicted person a Lavarack Barracks, Townsville, that it will native of Papua New Guinea and, if so, not accept responsibility for any obliga­ when and how did he enter Queensland? tions arising under the Townsville City Council by-laws relating to the installation (2) Will he be deported to his native and operation of above and below-ground land when he has completed his term of swimming pools on its tenanted properties imprisonment or will he be allowed to in Townsville and, if so, what is the reason remain in Queensland? for this attitude? (3) Is there evidence that other persons (2) Has the council advised the como have illegally entered Queensland in the mission that it has accepted the policy and same way and, if so, has he requested would refuse applications for the installa­ action of any other Minister to investigate tion of pools from persons occupying com­ the evidence and with what result? mission houses? (3) Does this policy now apply to all ( 4) Who met the costs of the convicted commission tenanted houses in Townsville person in both the Magistrates Court and or only to those known locally as "Army the Supreme Court and what were the homes"? costs? ( 4) Have tenants who have installed pools been advised that they should Answers:- arrange to have them removed? (1 and 2) "The allegation has been made that ili.e person convicted, John Answers:- Tabua, is an illegal immigrant but I am not (1 and 2) "Yes. The By-laws of the in a position to confirm the truth of the Townsville City Council provide that the allegation. The matter of his deportation owner of land on which a swimming pool is one for decision by the Commonwealth is situated shall ensure that every pro­ Immigration Department. The allegations vision of Chapter 21 is complied with and are certainly disturbing and one wonders create a liability to a penalty up to $200 how many illegal immigrants have entered plus $20 per day for any breach. It is Australia. The Torres Strait Islands are impracticable for the Commission for rts of particular concern in this matter. I rental properties to accept the responsi­ believe that Commonwealth Authorities bilities laid down by Council in regard to have been warned of what is happening­ Swimming pools and the Commission as I have seen Press comments on this informed Council accordingly. For subject from time to time." example, the Commission could not be (3) "The question of illegal entry into involved in the maintenance of the pre­ Queensland by persons from Papua New scribed range of alkalinity or observance Guinea is a matter for the Commonwealth of the prescribed parts per million of free Immigmtion Department." chlorine which may be 0·25 parts in some cases but must be 1 · 5 parts in other cir­ ( 4) "Tabua was represented in the cumstances. Furthermore, approval by the Supreme Court by Counsel instructed by Commission may create a liability in the the Public Defender pursuant >to the Poor case of the drowning of a child entering Prisoners Defence Act. Payment of the property and falling into the pool. Counsel's and Solicitors' fees has not yet 2312 Questions Upon Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Upon Notice

been finalized. Fees in respect of the com­ (2) Does the acceptance of such grants mittal proceedings in the Magistrates by a local authority contravene any section Court were not met by the State of of the Local Government Act or any other Queensland and details of them are not Act? known." · Answers:- ( 1) "I understand that a letter has CONTROL OF GRADER GRASS, NORTH recently been addressed to Local QuEENSLAND Authorities by the Commonwealth regard­ 1\fr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked The ing the matter raised by the Honourable Minister for Primary Industries,- Member but I have not seen a copy of such letter." ( 1) Is he aware that there is great concern by North Queensland local authori­ (2) "This Question involves a matter ties at the spread of what is commonly of legal interpretation including an inter­ known as "grader grass", which has now pretation of Constitutional law, and, spread from the roadside and covers large accordingly I do not think it would be areas of natural pasture? competent for me to comment thereon." (2) Has any investigation been carried out to ascertain the extent of the spread of the grass and has any research been STAFF PROTEST AGAINST WARD undertaken to determine a biological means CONDITIONS, ROYAL BRiSBANE of controlling its spread? HOSPITAL Mr. Marginson for Mr. F. P. Moore, pur­ Answers:- suant to notice, asked The Minister for (!) "Yes, my officers have long been Health,- aware of the 'grader grass' problems." ( 1) Further to my Questions regarding (2) "During 1965 Departmental Officers the Royal Brisbane Hospital, have staff in throughout the State were circularised Wards lA and lB signed a protest on the regarding the distribution of grader grass conditions that exist in those wards? within their areas and the extent of its (2) Does the manager intend to take spread at that time was determined. immediate action because, for good man­ Subsequently a detailed study was under­ agement, liaison with staff is a necessity? taken by an officer stationed at Mackay to determine control measures. Essentially Answer:- this work showed that grader grass, an annual, requires light on the soil surface ( 1 and 2) "The Chairman of the North for seed germination each year and that in Brisbane Hospitals Board has advised me the absence of this light the seed qualHy that he is not aware of any signed prote&t deteriorated rapidly. As a result there is from staff employed in Wards lA and lB little carry over of viable unge'fminated at Royal Brisbane Hospital. For the seed from season to season if an adequate infO'fmation of the Honourable Member, I ground cover is retained. The conclusions would advise that Ward 1B is presently from. this work were that burning, close .being renovated and the only staff em­ mowrng or heavy close grazing should ployed in this Ward are members of the be avoided in grader gmss infected areas. Hospitals Board's maintenance staff. There If ·this was done the infestation would soon is at the present time a programme of die out. Grader grass has not proved a renovations in various parts of Royal problem in vigorous well managed tropical Brisbane Hospital and it is possible that pasture areas, a fact which supports the there may be complaints from staff mem­ above conclusion." bers in various areas who may have been inconvenienced. I am not aware, however, of any such situation at the present time, but I will have enquiries made regarding CoMMONWEALTH Am To LocAL this matter." AUTHORITIES FOR EMPLOYMENT OF ABORIGINES BULK ELECTRICITY TARIFFS, NORTHERN Mr. Casey, pursuant to notice, asked The ELECTRIC AUTHORITY Minister for Local Government,- (1) Is he aware that Queensland's local Mr. Marginson for Mr. F. P. Moore, pur­ authorities have been recently advised by suant to notice, asked The Minister for the Commonwealth Department of Abor­ Local Government,- iginal Affairs that finance made available (!) Is he aware of the bulk electricity for special work projects for the employ­ rates of charges in the Northern Electric ment of Aborigines is being handled direct Authority as at July 1, 1964 and September from Canberra to the local authorities 1, 1973, for the Cairns, Townsville and concerned? Mackay regional areas? Questions Without Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Without Notice 2313

(2) As the charges for the Cairns area REDUCTION OF ROAD ToLL have increased by 38 per cent., the Towns­ ville area by 9 per cent. and the Mackay :\1r. N. F. JONES: In the absence of the area charges have decreased by 11 per Premier, I ask the Deputy Premier: Is he cent., and as the Cairns Regional Electricity aware of the figures issued by the Common­ Board has an industry-wide reputation for wealth Statistician on 30 November which being an efficient distributor over a large reveal that the number of deaths on the road a:rea, a reputation not sha:red by the (180 for the June quarter of this year) was Townsville board, will all of North the highest ever recorded for any quarter Queensland gain from this centralisation? and that 2,803 non-fatal injuries were also sustained in the same period? H so, what (3) Has he received advice from the measures is his Government taking to reduce State Electricity Commission which is not the appalling road toll as a result of which in accardance with the best interests of 625 persons were killed on Queensland roads the residents of this area? in 1972-73 and 10,903 injured? Sir GORDON CHALK: I am aware that Answers:­ there has been an increase in the road toll (1) "Yes." in this State. However, I point out that the Government has taken decisive (2) "Yes. Tariffs in North Queensland action in an endeavour not only to improve will be progressively reduced as a result of the policing of the roads but also, through the planned reorganisation and this will road safety measures, to ensure that vehicles benefit all North Queensland electricity on the roads are in a roadworthy condition consumers including thooe living in Cairns. and that every possible safety precaution is The criticisms by the Honourable Member taken from a Government point of view. On of Townsville Regional Electricity Board the other hand, it has been my experience are quite unfair and not based on fact. that the human element is something the That Board operates a highly efficient Government cannot control. Whilst there are undertaking." many road accidents in the heavily trafficked areas of the State, a great number also (3) "The advice received is fully in occur in the open areas, where, to some accord with the Government's objectives degree, high speed is probably the cause. and will benefit the Cairns area as well as the rest of Queensland." The honourable member asks what the Government is doing to reduce -the road toll. We are certainly conscious of the need QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE to reduce the number of traffic accidents and also to police the traffic regulations ILLEGAL PRAWN TRAWLING, MORETON BAY effectively, and that is what we are en­ deavouring to do. Mr. HOUGHTON: I ask the Minister for Primary Industries: Is he aware that a few Mr. Aikens: Whatever you do will be prawning boats are fishing the protected opposed by the A.L.P. prawn-breeding areas of Moreton Bay, against the interests of a large number of Mr. SPEAKER: Order! If the honourable prawning boats? Will he take some positive member for Townsville South interjects action against these offenders to stop this again, I will deal with him under the pro­ visions of Standing Order 123A. flagrant breach, by way of prosecution, cancellation of licences, and also confisca­ ABSENCE OF TEACHER FROM SCHOOL TO tion of the boats involved? ATTEND PREMIER'S MEETING, INNISFAIL Mr. SULLIVAN: I am very concerned Mr. F. P. MOORE: In directing a question about the irresponsible action of a few to the Minister for Education and Cultural prawners in Moreton Bay. I believe that Activities, I express my complete abhorrence my officers, myself and Cabinet acted very at the politicking of the Premier-- responsibly in closing certain areas to prawning, at the request and on the recom­ Mr. SPEAKER: Order! Please ask the mendation of responsible prawners and question. fishermen in the area, to allow for the breeding of prawns. I am concerned­ Mr. F. P. MOORE: Is the Minister aware ! know that fishermen are too-that these that in Innisfail this morning a State high­ people are raiding these areas, and it is my school teache·r, Mr. McRobbie, who is also intention, as soon as I get the opportunity a Country Party secretary, and a number of today, to discuss the matter with my col­ school-children were in an Innisfail street league the Minister for Marine Affairs, whose soon after 10 o'clock and were greeted by the officers are responsible for policing these Premier following a speech that he made activities. I assure the honourable member over the public-address system? Will he and responsible fishermen that whatever investigate this matter to ascertain whether action is necessary to bring these offenders the teacher had leave of absence and, if he to heel will be taken. did not, inquire from the principal why the 2314 Questions Without Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Without Notice

rteacher was allowed to be absent from the formed all over Australia is by land school? Finally, does he agree with this type developers giving them tracts of land. of politicking that is being engaged in by Admittedly this is of advantage to the the Premier? developer, and that is why he does it. But it is also of tremendous advantage to people Sir ALAN FLETCHER: I am not who want to play golf. This is an instance aware-- in which a developer has given land to a Mr. F. P. Moore: I am telling you. golf dub. Having done that, he has no further control over the club itself. The c1ub Sir ALAN FLETCHER: I think it would is part of the Queensland Golf Union; it is be unwise for me to accept as completely subject to its rules and conditions, and is accurate some of the untested statements that affiliated with it. I have bowled up to me from time to time. In this case I would like to have a look at The subsidy offered to this club to install the whole circumstances before I am called a sprinkler system is the same as that offered upon to express my views. So that I can to many other golf clubs. In this climate, know what it is all about, I ask the honour­ a golf club without a sprinkler system would able member to put the question on notice. be placed in a hopeless situation. At certain times of the year, without a sprinkler system, GovERNMENT GRANT To CooMERA RIVER the grass on the fairways and greens dies GOLF CLUB back. This is a new club that is being opened in a new area. The Queensland Golf Union Mr. DAVIS: I ask the Minister for Tour­ is very interested in having the necessary ism, Sport and Welfare Services: Will he facilities installed there as many people from inform the House why a grant of $4,500 was that area are visiting other clubs who can given to the Coomera River Golf Club, which make these facilities available to them. is an off-shoot of Foxwell Pine Forest Ltd., which in turn is a developmental company I have read the article referred to. Much that has the golf course under lease for five of the information contained in it was years? Is it now the policy of his department obtained from the Director of Sport by the to assist subdividers and other commercial newspaper reporter at a time when a member enterprises with funds that shoold be chan­ of Parliament was in the same room making nelled to sporting bodies who are in urgent inquiries from a public servant. I was par­ need of them? In the light of the information ticularly unhappy about this, as I do not released in "Sunday Sun" last week-end, will think that a member of Parliament should he now cancel this grant? use his position to obtain direct information for newspapers that print untrue stories. Mr. HERBERT: I am sorry that the honourable member cannot read, and also The Queensland Golf Union president has that he sees fit to cast aspersions on the written to the newspaper concerned pointing Queensland Golf Union. out the true facts, namely, that this golf club is fully affiliated and that there is nothing Mr. DAVIS: I rise to a point of order. I unusual about it. In my electorate there are object to these assertions by the Minister two golf clubs-Jindalee and McLeod-both whenever I direct a question to him. I asked of which were built by arrangement with him a simple question and I should like a Hooker-Rex and are now fully utilised. There courteous answer, without any of the stupid is no difference between the operation of rubbish that he resorts to on each occasion. this club and that of any other golf club in Queensland. Mr. SPEAKER: Order! There is no valid point of order. "SYDNEY MORNING HERALD" PUBLIC-OPINION Mr. HERBERT: The Queensland Golf SURVEY; REFERENDUMS ON COMMON­ Union applied to the Department of Sport WEALTH CONTROL OF PRICES AND INCOMES for a subsidy for one of its constituent clubs -the Coomera River Golf Club. According Mr. AHERN: I ask the Minister for to the Queensland Golf Union-I certainly Justice: Has he seen a report in this morning's do not doubt the information it has given "Sydney Morning Herald" of a survey spon­ me-this club has complied with all the sored by it on the forthcoming referendums? requirements for affiliation with that body. If so, does he regard the survey as having It has a financial membership of more than been conducted by reliable researchers, and 400 local residents, who are naturally well what significance does he place on the result? qualified to join a local golf club. For some time a problem has existed in Mr. SHERRINGTON: I rise to a point Queensland golfing circles in that it is the of order. fastest-growing sport in the State in terms of people requining facilities. The existing golf An Opposition Member interjected. clubs cannot cope with the people who want to play the ganre, and new golf clubs cannot Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I shall decide afford to purchase the area of land required whether it is a similar question or not. for an 18-hole course. Consequently, the Would the honourable member for Salisbury only way in which new golf clubs are being please state his point of order. Questions Without Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Without Notice 2315

Mr. SHERRINGTON: I have a suspicion Sir GORDON CHALK: I have to answer that I saw Government members cooking up by saying that I cannot recall any such this question. occasion. I can only say that it will be most unfortunate if politics are allowed to Mr. SPEAKER: Order! There is no valid enter into the question of the road toll. point of order. I hope that all honourable members will Mr. KNOX: Mr. Speaker, I thank you for work collectively to ensure that we can, your protection. I have seen the survey by some means or other, reduce the toll conducted by "The Sydney Morning Herald". of the road. Mr. Sherrington: I am surprised that the Mr. SHERRINGTON: I rise to a point of Treasurer should waste his time cooking up order. questions for other members to ask. Mr. SPEAKER: I hope it is a sensible one Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I warn the honour­ this time. able member for Salisbury under Standing Order 123A. Mr. SHERRINGTON: I hope that is not Mr. R. Jones: He has four questions; a reflection on me, Mr. Speaker. there are three more to come. Mr. SPEAKER: No. I am merely making Mr. SPEAKER: Order! I warn the honour­ a request. able member for Cairns under Standing Order 123A. Mr. SHERRINGTON: For my edification, Mr. Speaker, I seek your ruling. On many Mr. KNOX: The survey was conducted by occasions I have heard you rule that ques­ Australian Sales Research Bureau Pty. Ltd., tions and answers shall not seek or con­ which is regarded as a reputable market­ tain expressions of opinion. I ask for some research organisation. It was conducted a clarification of that ruling. few days ago and indicated that, across Australia, there would be a "No" vote on Mr. SPEAKER: Order! All questions that incomes control. At this stage, this is posi­ appear on the Business Paper are edited, tively indicated in all but one State-New and, where expressions of opinion are sought, South Wales. According to the survey, the deletions are made or the questions are dis­ result in that State will be very close, but allowed. It is very difficult at times in there is no doubt that, on Saturday, it will the Chamber, when proceedings are a little return a "No" vote. The majority of people noisy, to hear exactly what has been asked. in Australia will obviously vote "No" on I will say, however, that decorum in the the incomes question. The survey indicates House has improved during the past week, that Western Australia and Tasmania will and I have every hope that it will further also vote "No" on the prices question and improve. When that stage is reached, I that Queensland, at that stage, was within shall be able to clearly hear questions with­ an ace of voting "No", with 51.4 per cent out notice, and 'I have a feeling that I of people in favour of price control and shall be disallowing quite a number of them. 7.1 per cent uncommitted. I leave it at that for the moment. I would say that the chances are that the result on Saturday will closely follow this CONDUCT OF POLL CLERKS survey, with a "No" vote across the nation on incomes control and a "No" vote definitely Mr. ROW: I ask the Minister for Justice: in Western Australia and Tasmania on control In view of the pending referendums, will he of prices. There is every prospect of a "No" ensure that the responsibilities of poll clerks vote in Queensland on price control. As are made known publicly? It has been there is no chance of a "Yes" vote on brought to my notice that during the last incomes control, there is every reason for Queensland State election some school­ voting "No" on the prices proposal, because teachers, who are members of the A.L.P. there will be a shambles if only the refer­ and who were appointed as poll clerks, wore endum on prices is carried. badges bearing A.L.P. election slogans whilst carrying out their duties as poll clerks. ATTITUDE OF A.L.P. MEMBERS TO ROAD TOLL Mr. KNOX: The conduct of the referen­ dums on Saturday next does not come within Mr. AIKENS: I ask the Deputy Premier: the jurisdiction of a State department; it is During his long and meritorious service in under the Control of the Commonwealth Elec­ this House, can he recall one single occasion toral Office. However, I have every reason on which A.L.P. members have supported to believe that the Commonwealth electoral any move, legislative or otherwise, to increase officers in the various divisions will abide penalties on traffic offenders and potential by the rules for the conduct of referendums. road killers? If not, will he have inquiries I will be appointed as scrutineer for the made to ascertain the reason for their pre­ State, and, if there is any untoward sent vocal interest in the increase in the behaviour, no doubt it will be reported to toll of the road? me. Appropriate action will then be taken. 2316 Questions Without Notice [6 DECEMBER 1973] Questions Without Notice

DISPOSAL OF FORFEITED DRUGS today? Was there a "stick-up"? Were any of the passengers or railwaymen accosted or Mr. HANSON: I ask the Minister for hurt? Could he inform the House just what Health: Will he please explain to me how did transpire? ,drugs are disposed of after people have been convicted of drug offences? Mr. K. W. HOOPER: I have just been Mr. TOOTH: When persons in possession advised that there was a hold-up of the rail Mareeba area amounting to $7,984, and, they be destroyed. They are held until such for employees beyond Mareeba, another direction is given. Of course, I have power $1,075. There were also some copper coins under the Health Act to exercise a discretion that were being transferred from one Com­ in the matter, and from time to time drugs monwealth Bank branch to another. are destroyed, usually by incineration. This information has only just come to hand, and the police are on the job. As ALLEGED STOCKPILING OF SUPPLIES BY I have said, some shots were fired. I will QuEENSLAND CEMENT & LIME Co., LTD. let the honourable member have any further AND PAPER MANUFACTURERS information that may come to hand. Mr. WRIGHT: I ask the Minister for Justice: Is he aware of allegations that COMMONWEALTH AID FOR FLEAY's FAUNA Queensland Cement & Lime Co. Ltd. is at RESERVE present stockpiling manufactured cement? In view of the serious effect that such a Mr. D'ARCY: I ask the Minister for practice has on the building industry in Tourism: Has he seen the article in yester­ this State, will he carry out an immediate day's newspaper headed, "Herbert blamed investigation into the matter? Further, will for lack of aid. Fleay produces correspond­ he also investigate allegations that paper ence"? The Gold Coast naturalist, Mr. manufacturing companies are stockpiling David Fleay, is accusing him of failing to paper products, thus aggravating the present support his case for Commonwealth aid. shortage being faced by printing firms? Can he tell the House why he has failed to do this? Mr. KNOX: I am not aware of the allegations mentioned by the honourable Mr. HERBERT: I have read the article member. If he is in possession of certain referred to and I have already answered it information, as he claims to be, I suggest in the area in question. Under the first guide­ that he place it in the hands of the approp­ lines laid down, Mr. Fleay asked for support riate Minister. for what was then to be a $14,000 fencing job. The then guide-lines from the Com­ FAILURE TO ADMIT TRAFFIC ACCIDENT monwealth Government laid down that any VICTIM, ROYAL BRISBANE HOSPITAL proposal costing under $40,000 would not be countenanced. My department informed Mr. MELLOY: I ask the Minister for Mr. Fleay that as the cost was under $40,000 Health: Further to his answer to my question it could not be supported by us as it would on Thursday, 29 November, relating to the not be entertained by the Commonwealth admission of a patient to Princess Alexandra Government. Subsequently the $40,000 Hospital, is he yet in a position to furnish minimum limit was removed and Mr. Fleay the result of his investigations? If not, can renewed his application to the Common­ he indicate when he will be able to do so? wealth department. Mr. TOOTH: At the moment I am not I informed the appropriate Com- in a position to furnish the honourable monwealth department that Mr. Fleay's member with the information sought. fauna reserve is very definitely a tourist Inquiries are being directed through the attraction on the Gold Coast, so I do not hospital board, and immediately the informa­ know where he got the idea that I refused tion is available I will convey it to him. the help him. It was purely and simply that in the first instance his proposal did not fit ARMED HoLD-UP oF RAIL MoTOR, CAIRNS­ in with the guide-lines laid down by the RAVENSHOE LINE Commonwealth. I believe that it now does, and it is up to the Commonwealth to make Mr. R. JONES: I ask the Minister for the decision. At no time did either my Transport: Has he any advice, information department or I, as he has claimed, tell the or detail about a hold-up which occurred Commonwealth department that this fauna to 66 R.M. between Cairns and Ravenshoe reserve was not a tourist attraction. Death of Ex-Member [6 DECEMBER 1973} Death of Ex-Member 2317

GARBAGE DISPOSAL REGULATIONS The late Mr. Slessar was 73 years of age when he died at his sister's residence at Mr. D'ARCY: I ask the Minister for Sunnybank on Sunday. Health: As his department is responsible for enforcing the regulations covering garbage He was born in Victoria and came to colle~tion, w,i]] he consider regularising the Queensland with his parents at the age of various local authority collection agencies so six. He went to Chinchilla when he was 16 that all garbage is wrapped, fierce dogs are years of age. The late Robert Slessar estab­ tied up, and bins are so positioned that lished a successful motor and machinery garbage men can easily reach them? business in Chinchilla, where he was also an auctioneer for many years. Mr. TOOTH: I am sorry that I did not He made an auspicious entry into the clearly hear the honourable member's 28th Parliament of this State on 9 August various points. The position is that garbage 1938, following his defeat of the Hon. disposal i3 the responsibility of local govern­ Godfrey Morgan, who had been a colour­ ment. However, it comes under the sur­ ful member of the Legislative Assembly for veillance of the State Health Department, 29 years prior to that. and I will have a look at the "Hansard" report of the honourable member's question The late Mr. Slessar worked hard and and discuss the matter with the Director­ served his electorate well for three terms General of Health and Medical Services. which included the war years until he retired from. Parliament at the tim~ of the general POLICING OF UNDER-AGE DRINKING, PACE­ ele~twn held on 3 May 1947, following SETTER RooM, LENNONS PLAZA HOTEL wh1ch Dalby was represented by a former Country Party Member of this House, Mr. Mr. D'ARCY: I ask the Minister for C. W. Russell. Coincidentally it was at this Works and Housing: Has he had under-age election for the 31st Parliam'ent some 26t drinking investigated at the Pacesetter Room, years ago that the Premier, the honourable Lennons Plaza Hotel? This discotheque member for Cooroora and I were elected caters for teenagers, and I have received as newcomers to the Parliament of Queens­ several complaints about it. land. Mr. HODGES: The Police Department is Following his retirement from Parliament continually policing under-age drinking in at the time of the 194 7 election, the late aH restaurants, night clubs, and other places Mr. Slessar retained a very active interest where young people gather. Without know­ in the community affairs of his former elec­ ling off-hand whether in fact the police torate, particularly in the towns of Chin­ have paid particular attention to Lennons chilla, Dalby, Miles and Wandoan. He also Plaza Hotel, I would say that they would took an active interest in the Masonic move­ have called there, as they do in the case of ment, and was a prominent member of lodges all other licensed premises, in the course of both in Brisbane and on the Darling Downs. their investigations. He continued to live in Chinchilla after he sold his motor, machinery and auctionecr­ ing business some four years ago. DEATH OF MR. A. R. SLESSAR Following the death of his wife 13 months MoTioN oF CoNDoLENcE ago, he came to Brisbane to live with a sister. He had been ill for the past six Hon. Sir GORDON CHALK (Lockyer­ months. A funeral service is being held Deputy Premier) (12.4 p.m.), by leave, with­ in St. Andrew's Presbyterian Church Chin- out notice: I move- chilla, this afternoon. ' "1. That this House desires to place on I would like to place on record the appre­ record its appreciat1on of the services ciation of this Parliament for the valuable rendered to this State by the late Aubrey service that the late Aubrey Robert Slessar Robert Slessar, Esquire, a former member rendered to this State. On behalf of the ·of the Parliament of Queensland. Government and members of this Pariia­ "2. That Mr. Speaker be requested to ment, I extend sincere sympathy to the late convey to the relatives of the deceased Mr. Slessar's brother two sisters and their gentleman the above resolution, together families. ' with an expression of the sympathy and sorrow of the members of the Parliament Mr. HOUSTON (Bulimba-Leader of the of Queensland in the loss they have Opposition) (12.8 p.m.): I rise to second the sustained." motion and endorse the Deputy Premier's It is with regret that I move this motion of remarks about the late Mr. Slessar. Although condolence following the death in Brisbane he did not attain Cabinet rank or the position Jast Sunday of Aubrey Robert Slessar, a of Leader of the Opposition, he nevertheless former member of the Queensland Parliament. made many worth-while contributions not only to the Parliament of Queensland but I believe that the honourable member for also to his caucuses and party meetings. Townsville South is the only sitting member who was in this Chamber when the late Mr. I did not know Mr. Slessar personally. Slessar was the Australian Labor Party However, the records show that he was member for Dalby, from 1938 until 1947. a man of great integrity and generosity. 2318 Proposed Motion for Adj'ment [6 DECEMBER 1973] Ind. Conciliation, &c., Bill

Stories have been handed down to us to leases on South Stradbroke, Andy's, the effect that on more than one occasion Griffin, Woogoompah and Ephraim in the conduct of his motor business he Islands; paid instalments on vehicles rather than see "(2) the necessity for close considera­ their owners lose possession of them because, tion as to whether ecological features of for some reason or another they were the area should be maintained for the unable to meet their commitments. People preservatrion of marine and bird life; who live in the Chinchilla area knew him "(3) the need for assessment of the and his family well, and also knew of his tourist potential and capabilities of the activities. area and associated planning for such It is worth recording that Mr. Slessar tourist development or standard; held the Thirty-first Degree in Freemasonry "(4) consideration to what residential and was a member of every order of Free­ density is possible without adverse effect masonry worked in Queensland. Naturally, on present natural surroundings. he was a man who took very seriously his "Yours sincerely, contribution to life and the welfare of his "(P. J. R. Tucker, M.L.A.) fellow men. Any man who served three "Member for Townsville West terms in Parliament certainly contributed a "Deputy Leader of the Opposition." great deal to the State, and I join in the sentriments expressed by the Deputy Premier. The purpose of Standing Order 137 is to furnish an opportunity to discuss a matter Motion (Sir Gordon Chalk) agreed to, of urgent public importance which has honourable members standing in silence. suddenly arisen, and on which no oppor­ tunity for debate has presented itself previously or will present itself in the PROPOSED MOTION FOR immediate future. The particulars submitted ADJOURNMENT by the Deputy Leader of the Opposition in support of his proposed motilon clearly PARLIAMENTARY SELECT CoMMITTEE TO indicate that the subject matter has existed INVESTIGATE ISLAND DEVELOPMENT, for some considerable time. During this SOUTH STRADBROKE AREA time, ample scope has been afforded for any honourable member to bring this matter Mr. SPEAKER: Honourable Members, I forward for consideration and appropriate have to report that I have received the action, if deemed necessary. following letter from the Deputy Leader of I remind the House that this matter was the Opposition:- discussed by the honourable member for "Parliament House, Albert on one occasion during a Matters of "Brisbane, 4000 Public Interest debate. Members of the "6th December, 1973. Opposition also had an opportunity to raise "The Honourable W. H. Lonergan, M.L.A., it last Thursday, on Resolutions of Supply. "Speaker, They could have called "Not formal" to "Legislative Assembly, Resolution 14, which was the Lands Esti­ "Parliament House, mates Resolution. However, they did not avail themselves of that opportunity. In "Brisbane. addition, questions have been asked on this "Dear Mr. Speaker, matter. I feel that honourable members have "I beg to inform you that, in accordance had ample opportunity to discuss the matter. with Standing Order 137, I intend this day, I also remind the House that the lease Thursday, 6 December 1973, to move- in question was granted .in 1969 and that 'That the House do now adjourn.' work on it was started in 1970. "My reason for moving this motion is to Therefore, honourable gentlemen, in view give this Parliament an opportunity of dis­ of the circumstances, I do not propose to cussing a definite matter of urgent public allow the motion. importance, namely, the need for establish­ Mrs. Jordan: What about the lady? ing an all-Party Parliamentary Select Com­ mittee with terms of reference to investigate Mr. SPEAKER: Very well, in deference the desirability, or otherwise, of Canal to the honourable member-"and lady". development within the area bounded by South Stradbroke Island, the Southport Broadvvater and adjacent coastline within INDUSTRIAL CONCILIATION AND the Local Authority areas of the Gold Coast ARBITRATION ACT AMENDMENT BILL City Council and Albert Shire Council, and INITIATION to determine the most desirable form of development for this area. The matter has Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minis­ become particularly urgent because of- ter for Development and Industrial Affairs): "(1) strong public concern expressed in I move- relation to the present ecological ramifica­ "That the House will, at its present sit­ tions as a result of commercialised sand­ ting, resolve itself into a Committee of pumping for land development on special the Whole to consider introducing a Bill Industrial Conciliation and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Arbitration Act, &c., Bill 2319

to amend the Industrial Conciliation and it has been considered by the Industrial Arbitration Act 1961-1972 in certain Commission, and by the previous Industrial particulars." Court, that they had the power to grant Motion agreed to. exemption from the operation of awards upon good cause being shown, and this power has INITIATION IN COMMITTEE never been abused. (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, The Bill contains only two principles­ Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) firstly, to confer upon the Industrial Com­ mission the discretionary power to grant Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister exemptions from awards, a power which until for Development and Industrial Affairs) recently it always considered it possessed; (12.18 p.m.): I move- and, secondly, to validate the past actions of the present commission and the former "That a Bill be introduced to amend court in granting exemptions. Applications the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitra­ for exemption by an individual employee tion Act 1961-1972 in certain particulars." will not be permitted; they must be made This Bill, though a simple one, is of an by a union of employers, a union of emergent nature. On 28 November last the employees, or an employer. Furthermore, the president of the Industrial Court, Mr. Justice commission may at any time, on the applica­ R. H. Matthews,, handed down a judgment tion of an industrial union or an employer, that the Industrial Commission had no general revoke an exemption so ordered. power to exempt from the operation of an award. His Honour's decision resulted from I might mention finally for the information an appeal against the decision of Mr. Com­ of the Committee that, of the three other missioner Pont, published in the Industrial States that have industrial tribunals, New Gazette of 1 September 1973, that in his South Wales and South Australia confer on view the commission had no jurisdiction to their tribunals the power of exemption. In grant an application to vary the Boarding the case of Federal awards, of course, the House etc. Employees Award-Southern question of exemption does not arise, as Division by adding a further institution to a Federal award only applies to the cited the list of premises included in the term parties. "Boarding House". I commend the Bill to the Committee. The institution in question was the Bene­ Mr. BROMLEY (South Brisbane) (12.24 volent Home, West Street, Rockhampton, p.m.): I am sorry I was not present for all and it was submitted to the Commissioner of the Minister's introduction of the Bill. that this institution was operated by an inde­ However, I heard him say that exemption pendent and duly elected committee repre­ from the payment of award rates to charit­ sentative of the local community and was able workers is granted in two other States. incorporated under the Religious Education I should like to inform the Minister and and Charitable Institutions Act; that the the Committee that in, I think, 1964 the objects of the Benevolent Home, Rockhamp­ Federated Miscellaneous Workers' Union, of ton, were to provide accommodation and which I am a member and of which I was care for the aged, who are either of at that time an executive officer, agreed, in limited means, or in receipt of a pension consultation with various charitable organisa­ in respect of age or invalidity; and that tions, that it would take no objection to the Benevolent Home, Rockhampton, was the maintenance, to use the Minister's words, undertaking this project as a community ser­ of the status quo. As an industrial union, vice only, on a completely non-profit basis. we realised that charitable organisations would Until Mr. Commissioner Pant's decision, not be able to carry on their marvellous work the Industrial Commission-and, prior to if any alteration was made to the position 1961, the then Industrial Court and its at that time. predecessors since 1918-had always held With all due respect to Mr. Justice that it had a general power to grant exemp­ Matthews, it surprises me that he would tion. As a matter of fact, in 1961, the full bring down such a decision, because history Industrial Court, as it then was, comprising over the centuries, particularly in the last Mr. Justice Brown and Messrs. T. E. Dwyer 50 years or so in Australia, shows that and H. J. Harvey, in a judgment published exemptions have been given to charitable in (1955) 40 Q.I.G. 164, held that it had workers (I will not use the term "employees"), the power, in an appropriate case, to grant who do a wonderful job. These people exemption. unselfishly devote their time to assisting those In view of Mr. Justice Matthews' judgment, in sheltered workshops, raising money and the many benevolent homes and charitable doing other work that I, at any rate, would institutions throughout the State would now regard as being a sacrifice. Sheltered work­ be not only subject to award coverage, but shops and places such as that would have would also be vulnerable to prosecution to close and many people, particularly before an industrial magistrate for the physically or mentally handicapped children recovery of arrears of wages for a period and spastic children, would not benefit, as of 12 months. Obviously the status quo they do now, but for the support of members should be preserved. For over half a century of charitable organisations. 2320 Industrial Conciliation and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Arbitration Act, &c., Bill

I have in mind "Multicap Meadows", in for over 50 years. Although the unions had which a former member of this Assembly, the right to go to the Industrial Commission Mr. Sam Ramsden, is keenly interested. No and claim full award rates for people per­ doubt he receives some remuneration for the forming charity work, they were quite happy job he is doing for multi-handicapped child­ about the exemption. ren, but I believe he made a very big I am glad that the Bill has been intro­ financial sacrifice in leaving this Chamber duced but, at the. same time, I am surprised to undertake that work. Of course, before that there was ever any doubt in anybody's resigning from Parliament, he also did much mind about the existing position, and that unpaid work, as do many members of this anybody would want to change it. At one Assembly, for church organisations, schools, time or another, most of us in this Chamber, and hospitals. The Women's Hospital Com­ if not all of us, have done a great deal mittee comes to mind, and honourable mem­ of charitable work to help our fellow men. bers know how hard the auxiliaries work. Probably the Minister would have been as Many other people, too, do a great deal of surprised as I was at the commission's hard work in the name of charity. decision. I repeat-I am quite happy to do so­ The Opposition has no objection to the that I was a member of the executive of Bill, and we will not delay its passage. As the Federated Miscellaneous Workers' Union I said we are happy that it has been intro­ when it agreed that the status quo would be duced, and the sooner it has the authorisation maintained-in other words, that charitable of the Legislature, the better. workers should be exempt from award cover­ age, and thus be able to continue their good Mr. YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) work in the community. Although, as the (12.35 p.m.): I should like to make a few Minister said, the Bill contains only two comments about the problems that arise principles, I believe it is right and proper from time to time in this type of institution. that legislation should be introduced to clarify I do not agree with the general leaning the position of charitable workers and ensure towards charitable organisations. It is quite that there will not be any doubt about it. obvious that they have to employ staff to cook food, do certain cleaning work, and In years gone by, the School of Arts and so on. I have in mind the problem of other non-profit organisations ran lotteries people who seek employment from these and had many people working for them. organisations, but are not aware of, and I have here a copy of the New South Wales are not clearly told, the terms and conditions Lotteries and Art Unions Act. Although it of the work. is not directly tied in with the Queensland From my experience as a union officer Act, it has a similar intention. It says, inter I know that after a certain period these alia- employees complain about lack of award "that the lottery is conducted for the conditions, salaries and so on. They are purpose of raising funds in aid of the then confronted with the situation that the charity, School of Arts or non-profit organ­ particular charitable organisation is exempt isation by which the lottery is conducted from the award. The employees then become or authorised." frustrated and irate. I feel that the Minister It goes on to provide- should use his best endeavours to ensure "... that no prize in the lottery shall that these institutions explain quite clearly consist of or include spirituous or fer­ to employees, at the point of eugagement or mented liquors or tobacco in any form." application for employment, the conditions of work in these areas. That Act clearly ties up with the Bill the Minister is introducing. I do not have time Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister to go right through the Act, but it provides for Development and Industrial Affairs) that people working for charities are exempt (1 2.36 p.m.), in reply: I am glad the Opposi­ from award coverage. These people unsel­ tion agrees with my contention that this is fishly offer financial and physical assistance a simple Bill. I thank the Opposition gen­ and do not expect any remuneration for erally, and particularly the two members who their efforts. They do the work out of have spoken, for their co-operation in dealing goodness of heart, in the hope that it will with this fairly important matter. be of assistance in bringing handicapped persons back to a state of good health, in The honourable member for South Bris­ making their future more livable, or in bane pointed out that in 1964 the union of making them better citizens. I see no reason which he was an executive member fully why those working in such places should supported the philosophy under which, until not be exempted. recently, it was believed that the commission It would seem to me that somebody must had the power to grant exemptions. The have asked the Industrial Commission for honourable member questioned the judgment clarification of this matter. I have a great given. All I can say is that it is a fact, deal of respect for the commissioners and and the purpose of the Bill is to validate a what they do, and it is very surprising to situation which the great majority of people me that one of them would give a judgment always accepted. The matter has come before altering status quo in respect of premises the Committee because the matter involved where charitable work has been going on interpretation of the law. Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973) Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2321

A commissioner gave his decision on an Fire brigade boards' annual conferences application, and I believe that he did so have periodically urged that the State Fire in all good faith. The matter was then Services Council should grade fire brigade referred, as the law provides, to the Industrial districts. The only grading at present is for Court and, upon examination of the legal salary purposes in respect of country chief situation, Mr. Justice Matthews upheld the and deputy chief officers. It is proposed that contention of Commissioner Pont. That is specific regulation-making power will be a fact and we are now taking steps to included in the Bill to provide for the council regularise the situation which, as I said, to grade districts according to the types of almost everybody believed existed over the life and fire risks and other factors. last half century. I appreciate the way in Fire brigade boards have also sought an which the honourable member for South amendment so that an allowance may be paid Brisbane, as chief spokesman for the Opposi­ to the chairman of a board for his extra tion, approached the matter. responsibilities. At present, fees may be paid The honourable member for Rockhampton for attendance at board meetings. Although North also raised a very important point, a chairman may receive a greater attendance the problem that arises when a person takes fee than other members, provision is being made in the Bill for payment of an allowance a position with one of these institutions, for performance of the duties of chairman, without realising that the institution is the amount to be approved by the State Fire exempt from the provisions of the industrial Services Council. This generally will bring award. The honourable member asked that fire brigade boards into line with other I use my best endeavours to acquaint the similar authorities paying chairmen. community at large so that people who are taking this employment will be aware that Representations have also been made to such organisations are exempt from the increase the $1,000 limit on the sale of industrial award. His point was well taken. goods or performance of work by a fire My officers will look at the matter and see brigade board member. It has been decided if this point of view can be publicised so to remove the provision limiting a board that any disharmony that may otherwise member's participation in transactions with occur in a benevoient or charitable institu­ boards and to provide that a member shall tion can be avoided. I again thank honour­ disclose his financial interest in a contracting able members opposite for their co-opera­ organisation or in a particular matter being tion. considered by the board. The member, of course, is prohibited from Motion (Mr. Campbell) agreed to. votling on or discussing any matter in which he Resolution reported. has a financial interest. This will follow the principle established for local authorities. The existing legislation provides that mem­ FIRST READING bers of boards shall hold office from the Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. date of appointment or election until suc­ Campbell, read a first time. cessors are either appointed or elected. It is found, particularly in the case of triennial reconstitutions, that a board may, for a FIRE BRIGADES ACT AMENDMENT brief time, be a mixture of old and new BILL (No. 2) members, as insurance companies, local authorities and the Government elect or INITIATION IN COMMITTEE appoint members on different dates. The (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, amendment sets out that membership will Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) commence when all the board members are either elected or appointed, and will terminate Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minis­ on the date when the next reconstitution is ter for Development and Industrial Affairs) completed. (12.42 p.m.): I move- At present there is no provision for a "That a Bill be introduced to amend the fire brigade board to call applications for Fire Brigades Act 1964-1973 in certain appointments to positions which could involve particulars." the promotion of employees. It is considered Honourable members will recall that the that this is contrary to the intention of the previous Fire Brigades Bill during the current Act, which provides that appeals may be session dealt specifically with one matter lodged by any employee on the grounds only, whereas this is the first comprehensive of seniority and efficiency. The Bill will Bill since 1971 and is based on representa­ include provision that, in filling certain tions either having been made or circum­ vacancies, the board shall exhibit a notice stances having arisen which warrant further of its call of applications for the vacant amendments being submitted for consider­ position. ation. Requests for amendments have been The Act at present provides that an made by the Queensland Country Fire employee may be suspended from duty if Brigade Boards Union of Employers or its the chairman is of the opinion that he is members, and also by the State Fire Services guilty of misconduct or negligence. It is Council. proposed to permit a board to make a 2322 Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

by-law authorising the chief officer, also, to were made recently, but I do not have suspend an employee in certain circumstances. copies of them. I am sick of speaking to Such a provision exists in local government, fiddling little amendments which, to my way harbours and hospitals legislation. The neces­ of thinking, will not afford any assistance sity for this can be seen, for example, if in the protection of the people. an employee reports in an unfit condition Mr. Hanson: It is window-dressing. for duty late in the evening. It is also proposed to correct an anomaly Mr. BROMLEY: It is complete window­ in relation to uninsured premises. At present, dressing. provision is made that charges may be levied When will a real fire-safety code be intro­ if a fire brigade extinguishes a fire on such duced in Queensland? Unfortunately, fire premises. However, if other brigade services boards have no teeth or authority whatso­ are carried out on uninsured property, there ever. Following the establishment of the is no specific provision which would enable State Fire Services Council, which is con­ charges to be prescribed by regulation and trolled by the Minister, I thought it would levied on the person requesting the service. press for special legislation to enforce stand­ An exemption will be included where the ards. It is a pretty poor situation when, person shows that he was acting other than time after time, small amendments are intro­ for his own welfare, and in respect of roads duced. Queensland has 81 fire boards and and public places maintained by the Crown or 191 fire brigades, on which there are many local authorities. experts who have no say at all in safety Provision is also being made in the Bill standards. for the Minister for Lands, as administering As the Minister said, the Metropolitan the rural fires legislation, to appoint a member Fire Brigades Board inspects plans and makes to the State Fire Services Council. Under recommendations on safety measures in com­ the present legislation, a fire brigade chief bating fire risk, such as the installation of officer has free access to certain public sprinkler systems. However, the Brisbane buildings to check on laws relating to fire City Council and building contractors can prevention and fire protection, and also to -and in fact do--ignore these recommenda­ enter any buildings, other than private tions. I make an appeal for something to dwellings, to obtain information to assist be done in this regard. Let us have, fairly in fire-fighting. These powers are being clari­ soon, a full-scale debate on matters pertain­ fied, and provision is also being made that ing to fire brigades. obstruction of the chief officer in the exercise vVhen recent amendments to this Act were of his rights and powers is an offence under introduced, we co-operated to get the Bill the Act. through in a hurry. The Minister is recorded At present, the secretary of a fire brigade in "Hansard" as saying at that time that board is required to forward to all con­ we would be given an opportunity to have tributory companies a notice of the occur­ a full-scale debate on fire brigades in the rence of each fire. With a view to reducing very near future when he introduced further the volume of work, it is proposed to amend amendments. What has happened? The the relevant rule to provide that details amendments are just a "fizz". I wrote them of the fire will be forwarded on the request down as the Minister outlined them. One of the company holding the fire insurance or two of them are important. One deals risk on the property. The Fire and Accident with uninsured premises, a subject I have Underwriters' Association supports the mentioned once or twice previously. amendment. It is good to know that the Minister for I commend the motion to the Committee. Lands will be able to appoint someone as a member of a rural fire board-and so he Mr. BROMLEY (South Brisbane) (12.49 should, considering the importance of these p.m.): Obviously the Bill does not contain boards. a great number of amendments. One of its The officials of the various fire brigade important principles relates to board members boards are completely frustrated. They are disclosing financial interests, while another very worried because they have no au~h~rity deals with grounds of appeal by staff mem­ to stop the construction of shoddy bmldmgs bers. In recent legislation we dealt with with no real fire-escapes. They know that amendments relating to appeals, and, like the lives of many people are at risk, and other Opposition members, I am interested that there could be a huge conflagration in whether the Minister will give us some involving blocks of units, buildings or shops, information on the result of future appeals. which could be razed, yet they have no I understand that some have already been authority to do anything at all. heard. Mr. Hughes: The Brisbane City Council I cannot understand why the Minister does and the fire brigade work together closely not introduce a mandatory code on fire to achieve this result, and they do a good safety in Queensland. This legislation is job. being continually amended. I have here the Act itself and all the amendments that Mr. BROMLEY: I am well aware of that. have been made to it. I have them right, They meet regularly; in fact, I have here left and centre. A couple of amendments details of the number of times they have Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2323 met. But what happens at those meetings? Of course, some fires are caused deliber­ All they seem to do is discuss things. I ately, and I have in mind particularly the think that experts in fire-fighting, such as ones at the East Wind Bookshop and the Mr. Dowling and other board members, Whisky Au-Go-Go night club. It seems to should have the right to say, "We want a me that there has been a great deal of standard fire safety code." .It is all very arson lately, and I cannot understand why well getting together with the Brisbane City no-one was charged over the fire at the Council and having a little natter about East Wind Bookshop. The decision not to various things, but nothing is being done. charge anyone was probably political. Mr. Hughes: This is happening now with Before my time expires, I should like to the council. quote briefly from an article in 'The Courier­ Mail" of 30 July 1973 under the heading Mr. BROMLEY: I am glad the honourable "City bookshop blaze was deliberate, say member agrees with me. No real safety police". Although that fire occurred in July precautions are taken, even in Government 1973, we have not heard any more about buildings. Although the Minister for Works it and no-one has been charged as a result and Housing recently appointed a fire advisory of it. The whole matter has been put officer, which I regarded as a good move, I into a pigeon-hole or into mothballs. This do not know what part this officer has played worries me considerably because, irrespective in fire-prevention matters. I am not "knock­ of the political outlook of any organisation­ ing" him; I have just not been able to find in this instance, the owners of the book­ out what he has done. I want to see the shop-! believe that action should be taken various experts really do something when they to apprehend the offenders. It is the duty get together, instead of merely having a of the Government to investigate incidents natter about what should be done. of that type. Whilst there is consultation, as the honour­ The newspaper article said- able member for Kurilpa says, among the "Firemen who entered the smoke-filled Brisbane City Council, the fire brigade, and building found two drums containing the Government, there should also be con­ petrol or kerosene on the top floor of sultation among architects, builders and the the building." fire brigade. It appears that there is such If those drums were there, I think it is consultation, but again nothing is being done. obvious that the incident had political impli­ In fact, many two-storey homes designed by cations. Brisbane's fire chief, Mr. Dowling, well-known architects are virtually firetraps. who led the firemen, called in Special Branch This seems to me to be a rather poor state of affairs, and it is not fair to firemen, who officers as soon as the cans of fuel were are kept extremely busy attending fires in found. The article continued- houses, clubs and hotels. In the last 12 "Late last night police scientific experts months, there were almost 400 incidents were still examining the basement." involving fire in dwellings in Brisbane. That Arson was suspected, and that was the second represents a Jot of work for firemen, and I attack on the bookshop in four months. am sure that many of those fires would not It worries me to think that incidents such have occurred if the fire-prevention experts as this can occur day after day without had been allowed to say what should have any action being taken. Although it pro­ been done about formulating a standard fire bably does not come under the control of safety code. the Minister for Development and Industrial In the last 12 months in Brisbane, 17 5 Affairs, nevertheless it is a matter that con­ people needlessly died as a result of fires cerns the fire brigade and the safety of because nothing has been done to implement members of the public. I know that it has safety measures. Let the fire brigade have its caused much concern amongst members of say, and let us get something done about the Metropolitan Fire Brigade, and Mr. safety. Much hardship has resulted from Clark, chairman of the State Fire Services fires caused, as statistics show, by carelessness. Council, has also expressed concern. I was The great increase in the number of buildings rather disappointed in the report that Mr. being constructed means that the work of the Clark presented to Parliament, because it fire brigade will become heavier and heavier, did not indicate that there would be a with an increaJSing number of fires. definite investigation into all the ramifications of the shocking fires that have occurred [Sitting suspended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.] recently. Mr. BROMLEY: Over the last 12 months Although amendment after amendment of in Australia, fires have caused damage esti­ the Fire Brigades Act has come before this mated at $120,000,000, which is quite a lot Assembly, no indication has been given that of money. In addition, of course, they have action will be taken to strengthen the also upset many lives. I do not think the authority of the fire brigade or its chief community fully realises the tremendous risk officer. They are experts .in the field, and and danger associated with the duties of I think that all honourable members would firemen, particularly in these days. when support action to call them in and give them building materials such as foam and plastic an opportunity to say, "We want this done, are so widely used. and we want that done." 2324 Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

Fire is a great worry. An article in This in itself is bad enough, but it is com­ "Insurance News and Views" deals with the pounded in that fire brigades have no man­ huge losses they incur, and hints that some­ datory powers and no over-all authority in thing should definitely be done about it. regard to fire prevention; they can only There it too much talk and too little action recommend. in this direction. I demand action for the In 1971, when the Fire Brigades Act was control of fires. We need legislation pro­ amended, section 9 was repealed and a new viding a standard safety code for fire brig­ section substituted. By that amendment fire ades, buildings, and local authorities through­ boards were vested with the duty of under­ out Queensland, including the Brisbane City taking fire prevention methods. How the Council. dickens are they doing to undertake fire Mr. LEESE (Pine Rivers) (2.21 p.m.): If prevention methods when they have no auth­ the Bill is suppcsed to afford more safety ority to do it? All that they can do is to Queensland, all I can say is that it is a negotiate. There should be a mandatory non-event. Over the past few months we code of fire safety. Instead of having to have had statements from the Minister in negotiate on matters of safety, as they do which he told members and Queenslanders now, fire brigades should be able to pclice generally that he is going to legislate to it. And who better would there be to police improve fire-safety standards. One Press it than the fire brigades, through their various article read- boards. Surely it is time that we set out a uniform standard throughout Queensland, "Review of Fire Controls Likely and enforced it. To indicate what happens "The Metropolitan Fire B11igade may be when fire brigades go into negotiation, let given more power over fire safety meas­ me quote from a Press statement attributed ures." to the Chief Officer in the metropolitan area, In a Press statement in August this year Mr. Dowling. The Minister can smile but it was said- he should have been listening to his advisers on the fire board. Mr. Dowling is a gentle­ "Mr. Campbell, Minister for Industrial man for whom we all have tremendous Affairs, said, 'The State Government will respect in matters affecting fire safety, and legislate to improve public fire safety this is what he had to say- protection.' "Moral pressure sometimes was applied "Cabinet today authorised the Minister to persuade the fire brigade not to insist for Industrial Affairs (Mr. Campbell) to on standards it felt were necessary to give introduce a system under which fire brig­ a new building fire safety." ades would certify buildings from a fire safety viewpoint. It would not apply to That is the state of affairs we have reached. private dwellings." The chief officer of possibly one of the best brigades in Australia is forced to come out What do we see in this measure? Just publicly and state that he is subject to moral a lot of administrative amendments, not one pressures. If the Minister would legislate to of which will improve fire safety in Queens­ ensure that brigades, through their boards, land. I intend to show that this is an had the power to insist on safety precautions important question, one that Queenslanders and that fire safety was a matter they could are concerned about and, above all, one that enforce without any area for negotiation, there fire officers and their boards are concerned could be no moral pressure. about. I go further than that. I understand from The matter now before the Committee is a reliable source that at times this moral one to which far too often a lackadaisical pressure comes from rather high-ranking attitude is adopted. Usually it is only at the people. Undoubtedly, I could state that it time of a disaster that the important role of comes from people on the Government fire brigades and the importance of fire pro­ benches. There is no room for negotiation or tection are realised. All too often this parochialism in fire safety. Far too often realisation is short lived. The "it may owners of buildings see the installation of never happen" attitude reigns supreme. There fire-safety equipment as an unnecessary is no excuse for the Government adopting expense. The Government has a responsibility this attitude. If it is charged with ensuring and an obligation to ensure that fire-safety that adequate fire protection is afforded, equipment is an integral part of any public and recent headlines indicate that adequate building, and, of course, there must be fire protection is not afforded. adequate numbers of highly trained fire pre­ Fire boards and their brigades are being vention officers to police the fire safety continually frustrated by the present legisla­ measures. tion. As it stands at present, brigades and Regrettably, this is not the case at the their boards are toothless on safety issues, moment. The State Fire Services Council is as the honourable member for South Bris­ doing a good job but, once again, we only bane indicated. Fire Brigades must be given got the State Fire Services Council after a greater control over fire safety in buildings. disaster in Townsville. It seems that a disaster At the moment we have a multiplicity of has to occur before we get any real improve­ Acts, a position which I believe is ludicrous. ment in the Fire Brigades Act. I am aware Coupled with these Acts are the various that the Fire Services Council is conducting ordinances of the different local authorities. fire prevention courses, but the availability of Fire Brigades Act (6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2325 finance will dictate to the various boards the their lives in a department store blaze. The numbers of full-time fire prevention officers Press articles have claimed that the majority they are able to employ. of the deaths occur-red as a result of smoke The Minister has already indicated to me and poisonous fumes. I do not know whether in answer to a question that the frequency of the department store involved contained any inspections by fire prevention officers depends cellular plas,tics, but from the references to on the fire brigade involved. That being the poisonous fumes I am led to believe that case, surely the Minister must ensure that it did. From the material that I have read boards are able to employ adequate numbers I am convinced that cellular plastics, when of fire prevention officers. What is the use involved in a blaze, are so lethal that the of giving them this power and then saying, most stringent precautions should be taken "All right you have a fire prevention officer, to ensure that a similar disaster does not but, if anything goes wrong in your district, occur in Australia. it is your fault."? It is useless for a fire In many department stores, furniture that chief, a chairman of a board or a board is padded with cellular plastics is kept in member to say, "We did not have sufficient storage below other occupied floors. fire prevention officers to police it." Or, Plastics will hasten the spread of a "When we tried to police it, moral pressures blaze through any building in which an were brought to bear and negotiations broke outbreak of fire occurs. Therefore, par­ down." ticular attention should be given to the layout I understand that there are six fire preven­ of department stores. I hope that any build­ tion officers for the Brisbane metropolitan ing in which plastics are stored will be area. I should imagine that they would have classified as "high hazard" and that the a full-time job in coping with inspections of required standards are strictly enforced. new buildings and buildings where structural alterations are taking place. I stress again the A visit to any retail store in the metro­ need for a set of uniform fire prevention politan area would convince anyone that standards, the need to give the various fire fire-escape facilities are totally inadequate. boards power to enforce these fire safety Anyone who goes to an out-of-the-way standards, and, of course, the need to ensure department in such a store would soon ask that there are sufficient numbers of fire­ himself, "How in the hell would I get out prevention officers. of here if there was a blaze?" I venture to suggest that if a blaze did occur, par­ It is no use legislating and then not policing ticularly if pla£tics were consumed in it, the legislation, as all too often happens in a no-one who was 50 feet or more from an number of areas at the moment. I am of outside exit would stand a chance. the opinion that there should be an annual fire inspection of all non-domestic buildings, As I have said, this measure is only an and that this should be mandatory. I under­ adminisrrative one. Obviously the Minister stand that many of the older city buildings has not taken any notice whatever of the have never been inspected by fire-fighting statements issued over the past 12 months experts. in relation to the inadequacy of fire pre­ From Press statements, I had hoped that cautions taken in Queensland. something of this nature would have been The possibility of fire is always with us, included in this legislation and that all public and we certainly cannot legislate to eliminate buildings would be required to have a it. However, we can legislate to ensure that certificate of occupancy from the local fire our safety standards will go a long way board or local fire chief. Evidently, this is towards reducing the risk of anyone being not to be so. As to those buildings that trapped in a burning building and unable to have been inspected and do comply with the escape. fire safety regulations, unless they are reinspected at regular intervals there is no I understand that in the legislation intro­ way of ascertaining whether the owners or duced in 1971 the boards, through their bri­ occupiers are keeping up to scratch in fire gade chiefs, were given authority to enter safety precautions. premises and remove any material that was considered to constitute a fire hazard. Time and time again we have read of Technically, that is how it should be done, instances in which fire-escapes have been but is the system working? The other day, cluttered up with packing cases, bottles and the honourable member for Sandgate other rubbish, thereby rendering them com­ brought to my attention the condition of a pletely useless in ,the event of a blaze second-hand timber yard at Sandgate. He and, moreover, creating an additional fire told me that, for the past 12 months, Mr. hazard. Many department stores as well as Dowling had been trying to get the timber small shops, particularly those in which large removed from the yard. He has the power to quantities of pla&tics are stored, are potential go in and remove it himself, provided he death traps. can get a fleet of trucks and spend $5,000 I realise that on previous occasions I have in doing so. At present the owner can be highlighted the hazards associated with prosecuted, pay a $100 fine which he regards cellular plastics. All honourable members as a licence, and continue in business. The are no doubt aware of the disaster that yard is so crowded that packing cases spill occurred in Japan in which 107 persons loot out onto the footpath. 2326 Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

A few weeks ago council workmen had (d) Acting as an advisory body to to remove packing cases from the footpath Fire Brigades, industrial managements before they could work on it. I point out and unions, insurance companies and that the timber yard adjoins a bus depot, government, on all matters concerned which contains petrol bowsers and so on, with chemical fires. and that on the other side of the road "It would be essential that this office there are domestic buildings. A few years employ a person with qualifications in ago this man had a timber yard at Bald chemistry. If possible he should also have Hills, in my electorate. I thank God he is experience in chemical industries and in not there now. That yard was burnt out. fire and chemical safety work." The Metropolitan Fire Brigade Board has been trying to get rid of this nuisance. It was pointed out that this would take According to the Act, it has all the power time. The department had no idea how long necessary to walk in and remove the timber. it would take, but we still have nothing like In practice, it cannot do so, and very little what is recommended. can be done. The letter continues- The other day, by way of a question, I "We are only able to offer very tentative asked the Minister for Health if he had advice. It would seem essential that all received any representations from fire brig­ Fire Officers, involved with such a fire ades about cellular plastics. In reply, he should wear self contained breathing appar­ told me that he had, and that this matter atus, as filter/absorption type respirators had already been taken up by the State will generally be inadequate or even com­ Fire Services Council. I believe that the pletely ineffective. Clothing should not State Fire Services Council, at long last, be of an absorbent kind, but rather of has sent a circular to the various fire brigades an impervious fire resistant, solvent resist­ in Queensland. However, the Division of ant material and should cover the body Industrial Medicine did not see fit to make completely." any recommendations to the various fire We still have no research facilities in Queens­ brigade boards, or the State Fire Services land. Council, on the lethal hazards of this material Whenever I have raised the matter of and how firemen could protect themselves plastics with the Minister, his reply has against it. been that everything is under control and In 1972 we met with better success when that the State Fire Services Council is well representations were made to the Department aware of the whole problem. The council of Chemistry at the University of Queens­ may be well aware of the problem, but it land by the Country Fire Officers Association. is time that it started to stress this problem In reply, the Department of Chemistry had with other departments, particularly the this to say- Health Department and the Treasury, to "Your letter of the 17th March was ensure that any fireman overcome by these passed on to me as a member of the fumes, resulting in his being off work ill, Chemistry Department Safety Committee. will be entitled to payment of compensation, I have discussed this with the other mem­ which is not the case at present. bers of the Safety Committee before draft­ I have a case in Pine Rivers concerning ing the reply. a fireman who was undoubtedly overcome "The problem you raise is indeed an by fumes of this nature. He was off work important and serious one and we can for six months. He has been before the appreciate your concern. Furthermore it medical board at the S.G.I.O. and his is a problem which will increase in both application for compensation has been refused. magnitude and complexity. For this reason (Time expired.) we consider that your union, together with the Fire Brigade Boards, Insurance Mr. BURNS (Lytton) (2.41 p.m.): I, too, Companies and the industries concerned, am concerned at the inadequate protection should endeavour to establish a National of our citizens from fire, especially in high­ office to handle such matters. It seems rise buildings. I am also concerned at the to us that any other approach would be multiplicity of organisations that have some­ piecemeal and unsatisfactory. thing to do with the control and provision "We would envisage the functions of of fire safety. It seems to me that we require this office to include: one comprehensive organisation that will (a) The collection, collation and have complete control of the operation of dissemination of information of the fire brigades and fire safety regulations. type in the enclosure to your letter. I wish to concentrate today on the State (b) Undertaking or commissioning of departments involved in this matter, P.ar­ research into the efficiencies of various ticularly the Health Department. I remmd kinds of breathing apparatus, protective the Committee of the controversy that com­ clothing, and fire fighting methods where menced in 1973 over nursing homes and chemicals are involved in fires. the statements made at that time. The (c) Advising Governments on neces­ secretary of the Private Nursing Home Pro­ sary legislation about the notification of prietors' Association had a good deal to say. dangerous substances. He put up a case on behalf of his fellow Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2327 proprietors against our fire regulations. But It also says- he and the association revealed that they "It does seem unjust that Queensland were interested only in making a "dirty is the only State in the Commonwealth dollar" out of patients and that they had in which timber nursing homes are being very little interest in fire safety. condemned because of an Act of State It was reported at that time that the Parliament." Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board had shown, There was no enforcement of any action over a three-year period from 1970 to 1972, by the Health Department for three years, that 40 per cent of nursing homes in Bris­ whilst the lives and safety of patients were bane were fire-traps and that the State Gov­ under a threat. It was a severe threat, ernment and the Private Nursing Home Pro­ too, because these patients are bedridden prietors' Association had been playing a and quite inactive. Let it be remembered highly dangerous game of Russian roulette that 17 young and active people died from with the lives of old people. asphyxiation in the Whisky Au-Go-Go At that time, the association, through its tragedy. secretary, was trying to blame the Federal The completely untrue statements that I Government for the decision of some of have just quoted were circulated in an effort its members to sell their land and property to frighten, and even terrorise, patients and to land developers rather than face up to their families, and for political reasons only. the fact that restrictions had been placed In the meantime, whilst these nursing homes on their financial operations by the Federal were falsely protesting their concern for Liberal Treasurer in August 1972, long before patients, they were drawing up their own the election of the Federal Labor Govern­ safety code. The only money spent at this ment. time on fire precaution was spent on drawing up a new code. When the facts concerning their gamble with the possibility of an outbreak of fire Of course, the Government did nothing and the consequent death of all of a home's about it, either. The secretary of the Private bed-ridden patients were made public, the Nursing Homes Association shares the Gov­ association revealed that its members had ernment's lack of concern on this question. been levied in February of this year to In "The Courier-Mail" of 1 July 1973 he finance research and to allow it to draw said that although there had been adverse up its own fire safety code to cover private fire reports, this was a "normal business hospitals and nursing homes-its own code, obstacle". Note that! According to Mr. not the Government's code. Suddenly, this Hawkins, of the Private Nursing Homes private organisation, after three years of Association, an adverse fire report was a adverse reports from the Metropolitan Fire "normal business obstacle". On 5 July, he Brigades Board that 40 per cent of its homes said that his association's own safety code were firetraps and after doing nothing to "probably will require the installation of a improve conditions or fire services in its sprinkler system". He said "probably", let homes, levied its members to obtain the it be noted. I will list some of the require­ services of engineers and architects to draw ments that fire brigade officers have served up its own safety code. on the Health Department and hospitals such as the one at Chermside, and it will be What a remarkable lack of action or seen that sprinkler systems are demanded. concern there was by the Liberal Party on Many people have been critical of the this occasion! What a remarkable lack of Government's requirements for fire safety. concern for the safety of patients! There Mr. Christsen, of the Metropolitan Fire Brig­ is no doubt that this is where private enter­ ade, at a forum in the city not very long prise, or free enterprise, comes in. The ago, said- enterprise is to get around the safety code "Fire safety in Government departments and manufacture its own. They forget about is poor. Authority given to people to the safety of patients and look for profits. enforce and carry out protection in Gov­ It is a case of profits before patients. ernment buildings is inadequate." The proprietors sent circulars to the He was supported by a number of other patients and their families. They tried to speakers, who made the point that some start a fear campaign, claiming that they of the high-rise buildings in this city have would close down and that it was the timber floors, frames and partitions, and Federal Government's fault. In part, the there is electrical wiring here, there and circular reads- everywhere. Mr. Dowling, who is Chief "There are timber nursing homes operat­ Officer of the Metropolitan Fire Brigade, said ing in all other States. Unfortunately that architects and consultants are concerned Queensland is the only State which has with their clients' interest in making money; an Act relating to Private Hospitals and their clients are concerned not with safety Nursing Homes and this Act required a but with money. He said that most architects fire report on each Queensland Nursing are concerned with making a building "look Home from an officer of the Metropolitan pretty". Fire Brigades Board, who had not the Let us now turn to what action is taken necessary qualifications to issue such a by the State Government in its own build­ report." ings. The present Government has no policy 2328 Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

for the installation of fire-safety equipment There was no thermal alarm system, no in hospitals. In some places, such as the sprinkler system, and no emergency lighting Ipswich Hospital where its policy is first system. class, the practice is to install all "mod What should be done at the Chermside cons". However, this is so expensive that Hospital, if it has not already been started, the same degree of safety could not be is to install a manual press-button alarm provided in all other hospitals. In fact, system-this also applies in all high-rise in the case of Ipswich, the board is installing hospitals-which notifies the fire brigade of all facilities in the Ipswich Hospital, and the presence of fire in the hospital and also the other small hospitals controlled by the alarms and notifies the staff of the precise board throughout the district have very little, whereabouts of the fire. It is particularly by comparison, in the way of fire-safety important in carrying out evacuation pro­ equipment. cedures that help be given quickly to those The Health Department has no policy on who have to be evacuated. Therefore, an fire-safety equipment. However, Cabinet did alarm system should inform the staff of the decide that finance would be provided to precise whereabouts of the fire so that. they install fire-safety equipment as recommended can move immediately to that area w1thout by the State Fire Services Council. Such any delay. recommendations are not now received, and The press-button alarm system would the council does not carry out inspections have a press-button enclosed in glass at about on behalf of the Government. It was strongly every 40 feet. Some of the nursing homes recommended that a fire officer be employed that contended they were completely safe by the Department of Works for the purpose had one press-button alarm, which . was out of inspecting Government buildings. I under­ in the front yard. Whoever rece1ved the stand that by now such an appointment may telephone call, of course, would then have have been made. What is required is the to wake up other members of the staff and establishment of a uniform policy for all immediately begin an evacuation procedure. hospitals. Again it comes down to a matter If that was not done,. panic would immedi­ of one policy to cover all-private enter­ ately set in in case of fire, especially in a prise, Government, hospitals, nursing homes, high-rise building. etc. Why can't we have one standardised set of fire-safety regulations? The next most important step in any high-rise hospital or high-rise building is An immediate start should be made to to establish a master lift-control on the ground provide even basic fire protection in those floor and to install an emergency power places where it is most needed. Recently supply to the lift. That would cost only about it was suggested that one such place was $5,000. When a fire breaks out in a hospital, the Chermside Hospital. I know that the the staff have been informed that their task Government has started to spend money is to commence evacuation procedures there. Late last year, however, it was one immediately and to do so in the immediate place where, because of the nature of the area of da~ger from which they can get patients, the spending of some money on people away without putti~g their own life safety precautions was really needed. Most in danger. When the bngade comes, the of the patients at Chermside are bedridden, staff have to withdraw and the brigade takes and have a longer stay in hospital than over. patients in other hospitals. For example, I If the lift cannot be controlled it becomes think the average stay in Princess Alexandra useless because when the power is cut off Hospital, as shown in the last report that panic occurs, with people leaving doors open, I saw, was about three days. Many of the pressing buttons on all the floors, and render­ patients at Chermside are orthopaedic pati­ ing the 'lift completely useless. In any event, ents who cannot get out of bed, and others the current procedure adopted by the fire are mentally retarded and would be prone brigade would render it useless because it. is to panic in an emergency situation. Others their practice to switch off the power supphes are cardiac patients who could die in smoky in a building immediately upon arnval. conditions or if they were required to move Therefore the installation of a fireproof main speedily in an emergency situation. lead to the lift supply is required so that The Health Department has, in the past, power can get through to the lift. If that received adverse reports on hospitals such procedure was followed, the lift would then, as the one at Chermside. One report stated under the control of the fire brigade, become that the hospital lacked an alarm system of a means of evacuation. In many instances any kind. The report to which I am referring today it is a means of killing people. Without is some months old, and action could since fireproof doors, the smoke and the flames have been taken. If it has, I offer my con­ whip up the lift-well and fill every floor of gratulations. If it has not, my criticism the building with smoke. stands. Of course, smokeproof doors are an important safety measure and they should be If a fire breaks out, the brigade must be installed. Most deaths in a fire are the result contacted by telephone, and the staff must of asphyxiation. Therefore, fireproof doo~s be contacted in the same way. There were on each floor would create safe areas unt1l no smokeproof doors, and no exit signs. help arrived. Smokeproof doors are ordinary Fire Brigades Act (6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2329 doors that will withstand fire for about four few resolutions here relating to things such hours. Each set would cost about $500-not as increasing the salary of the chairman of a lot of money-and they should be installed the board. in hospitals such as Chermside and some of The Government is not really concerned the older hospitals throughout the State­ about fire-fighting and fire safety if this two, three and four-storey buildings--on is the sort of Bill that it brings forward either side of each lift. in a day and age when the whole system of The next procedure that should be adopted construction of apartment houses, shops, hos­ for safety is the regular carrying out of pitals, schools and homes has changed. As evacuation exercises. I believe it is a long a result of that change, great stresses and time 1sin,ce fire-evacuation exercises have strains are placed on the fire brigade officer. been carried out in some of the high-rise He does not have the necessary power to hospital buildings in this State. The only act. Certainly he does not have the power high-rise building in which I have seen to check plans supplied to the Brisbane evacuation exercises carried out is the S.G.I.O. City Council and say, "That building should building, where they are carried out from not go ahead in that shape and form. It time to time. I wonder how many high-rise would be a fire hazard." apartment buildings carry them out. It would Mr. Frawley: I think he has. be interesting to hear what sort of fire­ evacuation exercises are carried out in some Mr. BURNS: Then I should like to think of these buildings. that the Brisbane City Council would react The next thing needed is emergency lighting properly if he said that. If the Minister of exits. If the power is cut off, people in said that this officer has power to recom­ hospitals such as Chermside, five, six and mend changes in plans, I would be very seven storeys above the ground, see the lights surprised. In that event, I should like to go off, everything goes black,. and the building know which fire officer had a look at the is full of smoke. plans of some of the high-rise boxes that are being built in some parts of the city. Mr. Frawley: They have emergency lighting Mr. Campbell interjected. there. l\fr. BURNS: Many hospitals do not have Mr. BURNS: In many cases the local it. authority submits plans to the local fire brigade. I do not disagree with that, but Mr. Frawley: They have three emergency whether the fire brigade suggestions are lighting units at Chermside. accepted by the local authority is another matter. I can remember a statement by Mr. Mr. BURNS: If the honourable member Dowling or one of the other fire officers can assure me of that, I shall be pleased in which he expressed concern about this to accept his assurance. particular aspect of fire safety. The installation of emergency lighting units One of the biggest recent fires was the in many hospitals has only just begun. For one that occurred in one of Woolworths .a long time, many hospita'ls have not had any Sydney stores. It was the sixth major fire such units, and I know that many buildings in a Woolworths store in 18 months. Again in this city do not have them. The power I point to some of these long, single-storey having been cut off, some battery-operated buildings that are being constructed in the or locally operated lighting system is needed suburbs. In business hours they are sur­ so that people can find the exit and see the rounded by hundreds of cars in the car parks. end of the corridor. It is useless for them to They have only three or four outlets. If feel their way round in the dark and in a fire occurred in any one of the outlets, smoke in a building where people are panick­ with all the plastic equipment and other ing, running around wildly, and screaming. materials that the honourable member for Honourable members can imagine how Pine Rivers has spoken about, one wonders alarmed they would be if they happened to how people would get out. be on, say, the eighth floor of a hospital or In the Lytton area there has been a great a high-rise apartment building and were trying increase in fire risk as a result of the new to find their way out in that situation. It industrial estates. I am concerned about all would be very easy to take the wrong turning. the new industries, including the harbour If evacuation lighting was provided peop'le industries, the noxious industries and all the wou'ld go in the proper direction. other industries that are to be built there. All these things point to the correctness We hear a lot of talk about the new meat­ of what Mr. Chvistsen said. If fire safety works, the fertiliser plant and the oil refin­ in Government departments is poor-I say eries, but no additional provision has been it is poor not only in Government depart­ made for fire safety. The closest fire station is ments but everywhere else-the Government at Wynnum. It has been there for 50 years. should be giving a lead. It is not right or The next nearest one is near the city. The reasonable that the Health Department and boundary of the Metropolitan Fire Brigade hospitals should be receiving reports that area extends right down to Lindum­ hospitals are deficient in fire-fighting pro­ through the Murarrie area, into the Hem­ cedures when at the same time we carry a mant area, and down to Kianawah Road. 2330 Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2)

If a fire occurred on this side of Kianawah one of the most urgent matters in this city Road fire brigade officers would have to at present is the establishment of adequate be sent from the south side of the city, fire prevention facilities in high-rise buildings. and fire brigade vehicles would have to Today we have 2'8-storey buildings in this cope with all the traffic and bottle-necks city and, although the local authority may that are associated with narrow suburban supply them with alternative sources of elec­ roads. It is an impossible situation, and tricity, the design of the buildings is such something will have to be done about it. that people on the top floors are entirely I do not object to the fire brigade chair­ dependent upon the availability of lifts in man getting an extra few dollars, but why order to leave the building. They are also doesn't the Government do something about dependent on a reliable source of light to the retiring age of firemen? In this day find their way to the lifts, and on the artificial and age they are expected to fight fires circulation of air so that they will not die right up to the last day of their service. from suffocation while doing so. Even when they are 64 years and 360 days Within the last few days we have read old they are still expected to go into the of a tragic fire in Tokyo and we all remem­ heart of a fire. In many other places the ber the Whisky Au-Go-Go fire and the one retiring age for firemen has been reduced at the Myer Shopping Mall, Chermside. In to 60 years, and there is no reason why all of these cases adequate fire protection that should not apply here. After long facilities were lacking. and meritorious service to the community, a fireman should not be foreced to fight Turning again to the high-rise buildings intense and difficult fires right up to the in Brisbane, I acknowledge that the State end of his service at 65 years of age. Government Insurance Office has probably the best fire prevention measures of any When I refer to the need for a fire brigade building in Brisbane. However, many build­ in the Lytton area, I point out that there ings, including some Government ~nd City are two oil refineries at the mouth of the Council offices, do not meet the reqUirements. river. We had one near-escape when a I can well remember the fire in the Padding­ passenger ship and an oil tanker almost ton Tramway Depot and the consequences of collided early one morning in a fog. If that. After examining the remains of that a holocaust ever occurs on an incoming building, we realised that many of our. other tide, there will be many problems for all depots did not have adequate fire fightmg or those people who work and live along the prevention equipment. banks of the river. It is no use saying that we . have a tug equipped with fire-fighting In the case of the Whisky Au-Go-Go fire, eqmpment. It would not necessarily be the building was designed as shops down­ available at the time of a fire. It could stairs and office space above. It was subse­ be working somewhere up the river when quently converted for use as a club, but it a fire broke out at the mouth of the river. did not adequately meet the standards that My plea to the Minister is that he do normally would have been required if it had something for the average employee in the been built initially for club purposes. ~re brigade who, in most cases, takes on the When the Myer Shopping Centre was built JOb as a career. He believes in it as a at Chermside, the requirements of the local career. Certainly something should be done authority were very strongly resisted. They about his retiring age. There is a need included the provision of a fire-proof wall for a complete ring of fire stations both with the necessary door for over 500,000 in the new industrial areas and th~ new sq. feet of floor space. Eventually, a com­ residential areas. They should not be located promise was reached with the installation of on the old sites of 30 or 40 years ago. a shutter-type door which, incidentally, when We do not want the old sites upgraded. it did activate, dropped without warning. If Let us plan new ones. at that time firemen had been fighting the fire . The ~tat.e Government must face up to on the other side of it, they would have Jts obl!gatwns on fire regulations. The been incinerated because no escape route Health Department should be forced to place would have been open to them. the proper . f~cilities in high-rise hospitals, When the local authority draws the atten­ both the ex1stmg ones and those now being tion of people constructing these buildings erected. Let us ensure that we give fire to the necessary requirements, they almost officers the authority to control and enforce invariably point to the cost involved. I have the regulations. And let us have one fire said on many occasions-and I repeat it­ authority. Let us not have a multiplicity of that any one of these high-rise buildings in organisations consisting of local government, the central area of Brisbane is so designed State departments and fire brigades all com­ that if a fire occurred in the bottom two peting one against the other. Let us have storeys, there would be little chance of any­ one fire authority responsibLe for conduct­ body escaping from the upper floors, either ing the fire services in this State. by lift or in any other manner? Mr. HARVEY (Stafford) (3 p.m.): Having I sometimes wonder whether our fire had experience in this particular matter and services have the ladders and escape sheets having served for about six years on the necessary to adequately cope with the emer­ Metropolitan Fire Brigade Board, I think gency they would face if people were caught Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2331

in the higher levels of some of these build­ been installed in that factory. In fact, I ings. One requirement is for ventilation believe that a factory previously occupied by air ducts and smoke extractors on every that firm was burnt out. fourth floor. However, smoke naturally A very large number of fires can be rises, and if the extractors are defective it attributed to electrical faults. In England, spreads to the higher floors on which people the electric supply authority is concerned are trapped and overcomes them. Added to only with providing the electric energy. What this is the possible outbreak of mass hysteria happens beyond the meter does not concern among a group of persons who find them­ it greatly. In Queensland, electric authorities, selves in a dangerous situation. on request, provide free inspections and tests Underground parking stations are also a of wiring in premises every five years. I cause for concern to local authorities and believe it should be mandatory for premises Government departments. During the day, to be tested every five years. when there is a normal flow of vehicles in An examination of records discloses an and out of such a parking area, the carbon­ incredible number of fires attributable to monoxide extractors operate quite efficiently. electrical faults. In many Qnstances owners However, late at night after the picture of the properties have not bothered to ask theatres have closed and patrons rush to the electric authority to carry out inspections the parking stations, start their cars and because they fear being involved in addi­ then allow them to idle while they are queued tional capital expenditure to upgrade the up at the exits, :the fumes build up to such safety of wiring and appliances on the an extent that it is questionable whether the premises. extractors can cope with them. While my next matter of concern may not In many modern buildings synthetic come directly under the Minister's control, materials, such as polyurethane, are used in I wish to draw attention to the very large the installation of ceilings. Such materials petrol tankers that transport flammable are not fire repellant. Whereas, some years fuels, in peak hoors, through dense traffic in ago, buildings of two or three storeys were closely populated areas of Brisbane. Only constructed mainly of brick, concrete and last week a tanker rolled over near Break­ steel and were therefore fire resistant, these fast Creek. Chaos could well have resulted days the design and construction of buildings, if the accident had occurred at the Valley embodying synthetics, cause grave concern corner or in Queen Street, with petrol to fire-fighting authorities. spreading across the road and running down the gutters. The whole street could have Mention has been made of the upgrading been an inferno before the fire brigade of the building code to prevent, among other arrived. In peak hours, traffic congestion thingi, the erection of prefabricated plastic would be so bad-indeed, it could be at a structures. Although many of our building standstill-that the fire brigade would be ordinances are an improvement on earlier unable to get to the fire. regulations, they still leave a lot to be desired. The need to take necessary fire In another incident at Breakfast Creek, prevention measures must be stressed upon the fire brigade experienced great difficulty architects as well as other persons engaged in in getting to the fire to hose fuel into the the building industry. Brisbane River. It was fortunate that it occurred so close to the river. I ask honour­ Of course, it is not solely a building that able members to imagine what could have constitutes a fire hazard. Its furniture and happened if this incident had occurred in fittings are also highly combustible. When the inner-city area. the Indooroopilly Shoppingtown was con­ structed, I can remember that nylon car­ In the early 1950's, a tanker was involved peting was placed on the floors. The council in an accident outside the Coorparoo Fire electricity authorities were called in to deter­ Station. It was fortunate that the fire station mine whether or not a person standing on was close at hand, and the fire was brought such a carpet and at the same time touching quickly under control. a metal fitting could receive an electric shock. We must face up to the problems created It was found that, particularly during dry or by our changing society in which we see westerly-windy weather, a person in such a higher buildings, with different architectural situation could receive a shock from static designs, in densely populated areas. All electricity. A synthetic spark is probably one these things add to the problem. of the hottest electric sparks and can there­ fore easily start a fire. The fire brigade service is doing a really good job. Its precepts are met by the Gov­ These days greater use is being made of ernment, the local authority and the insur­ nylon and fireglass materials. Some factories ance underwriters. However, we cannot that were designed for a certain type of assess the value of protection of life and manufacturing process have changed over to property in dollars and cents. I am satisfied the use of synthetics. Quite recently, while that, if the Whisky Au-Go-Go night club in the Ipswich area, I visited a factory that had been forced to meet the appropriate made extensive use of fireglass and its asso­ requirements when the building was con­ ciated natural esters and materials. In my verted from office accommodation, the fire opinion, inadequate exhaust extractors had hazard and loss of life would not have been 2332 Fire Brigades Act [6 DECEMBER 1973) Amendment Bill (No. 2)

nearly as great. Furthermme, I have been while treating other men in such a way reliably informed that the escape door was that it was hardly bearable for him to tamper~d with long before the fire broke remain there. Ultimately, he was dismissed out, making it impossible for people to from the Rockhampton Fire Brigade. escape through it. During that period, a new fire station Fire prevention measures must be incm­ was constructed in the Park A venue area porated in the design of buQidings and the of North Rockhampton, but it was left furnishings and equipment in them, and use unmanned for 12 months to two years. If must be made of them, with continual checks the authorities saw fit to erect that sub­ to ensure that they are maintained at the station, they should not have seen fit to leave required standard. The views of a fire-fighting it unmanned. However, owing to the action authority should override those of local of the board and the department, it remained authorities and all other parties. inoperative for that period. It is only in In th_e north-weste~n sector of the city, recent times that firemen have been stationed fire statwns are established at Imtwyche and there. The people of Rockhampton were· Newmarket. Mitchelton, The Gap, Ferny very concerned about this issue, and opinions Grove and the Pine Shire are far removed have been expressed publicly by all sections from fire-fighting facilities, and there as a of the community about the attitude of the need to extend this service into those areas. board. I appreciate what has happened recently, and I hope and trust that the· I believe that the city should be ringed with matter will be resolved in the best interests fire stations so that equipment can be fed of all. into the city rather than out of it. This would ease traffic congestion. I support the remarks of previous speakers. The honourable members for Lytton and Mr. YEWDALE (Rockhampton North) Stafford referred to the need to improve (3.16 p.m.): After listening to the remarks fire protection throughout Queensland, and of .previous Opposition speakers, it is fairly indeed throughout the Commonwealth. I ~bvwus that a great need exists not only noticed a newspaper report only last week m Queensland, but throughout Australia to to the effect that state managers of Wool­ revolutionise the whole question of fire pro­ worths stores, of which there are 850 tection. I shall reiterate and, to some throughout Australia, decided at a meeting extent, rehash what I have said previously. in Sydney to review fire precautions in their W_henever I have an opportunity to raise stores. If it is necessary for the managers th1s matter, _I shall do so. For two years of such a large organisation to review fire or more, owmg to the Government's inability precautions, the authorities could well pay to overcome the situation, Rockhampton was some attention to fire prevention measures left virtually half-starved in fire protection. taken in Woolworths stores throughout the The board originally employed 50 men but Commonwealth. Woolworths is a very large owing to an industrial dispute, the n~mbe; organisation providing massive shopping fac­ dropped to about 25. For well over two ilities that are used by many thousands of years, those 25 men have been expected people every day, and, if its managers decide to give to . the population of Rockhampton that there is a need to review their fire the protectwn afforded to it by 50 men. precautions, the State authorities should dis­ Those 25 men had to work excessive over­ cuss the matter with them and collaborate time and remain on call more or less on with them in the interests of the people. a ~ontinu~us basis so that they would be avatlable m the event of a major outbreak. Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Min­ Fortunately, no major disaster occurred. ister for Development and Industrial Affairs) (3.22 p.m.), in reply: The debate has been If 50 men were originally employed to notable in that honourable members have protect the 55,000 people in Rockhampton, paid little heed to the amendments that I how can the Government justify protecting outlined. Instead, they have discussed mat­ them with only 25 men for over two years? ters quite outside the ambit of the Bill. In fact, it is now closer to three years. In I venture to say that this indicates the that time, the population and the number futility of the introductory stage, when debate ?f houses and building premises have occurs without full knowledge of the contents mcreased, and I repeat that we were only of a Bill and when a Minister perhaps does half-protected. Also during that period not fully explain the measures contained in it. every person in the community was expected This legislation deals with the administration to continue subscribing his normal fire of the Fire Brigade Board. Fire safety, or premiums and,_ in the latter stages, was even the need for a safety-code, is a matter for ~ub)ected to mcreases in the fire levy of other legislation. ~he State Government Insurance Office, which IS another matter I have raised previously. Earlier this session, when Opposition mem­ bers were courteous enough to allow the To my mind, the Rockhampton board fairly swift passage of another Bill dealing in collaboration with other people, instigated the whole situation by dismissing the men with fire prevention, I promised that during involved. The fire chief, who remained in this session ample opportunity would be control _of the firemen in Rockhampton, presented for a full debate on fire safety entered mto all sorts of conniving arrange­ precautions. I stand by that declaration. ments with the remaining men at the centre Mr. Marginson: Next March? Fire Brigades &c., Bill (No. 2) [6 DECEMBER 1973] Inspection of, &c., Bill 2333

Mr. CAMPBELL: The debate will take Mr. CAMPBELL: The honourable member place during this session. might think that a solution to these problems can be plucked from the air as easily as Mr. Marginson: This session goes to he waves his hands around. next March. Mr. Burns interjected. Mr. CAMPBELL: It may go to April or June, for all we know now. As I said, The CHAIRMAN: Order! it will be in this session. Because the new Mr. CAMPBELL: Continuing my advice legislation i~ quite comprehensive, it cannot ?e framed m a few weeks. I am happy to to the honourable member for Lytton, if mform the Committee that the main prin­ he is interested in listening, I inform him ciples of the Bill have been ironed out and that a meeting of all parties is scheduled it is now in the hands of the Parliame~tary to take place tomorrow, when it is hoped Draftsman for his attention. that the matter will be finalised. I think there has been a considerable As to his complaint about the lack of amount of unnecessary thrashing about by a fire station in his electorate, I inform him members in this debate. I shall not labour that the Metropolitan Fire Brigades Board the point except to say that much of the has looked at several sites. None of those debate on this legislation has been unneces­ that it has looked at is available. However, sary, because-- because it sees the necessity for having a fire station in the area, it is urgently con­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! I think the tinuing its investigations. Chair is capable of determining that. The honourable member for Rockhampton North posed several questions, the answers Mr. CAMPBELL: I omitted to say Mr. to which he already knows, and I do not Lickiss, that I believe that membe;s of propose to canvass those matters. the Opposition have traded on your undoubted patience, because I repeat that Motion (Mr. Campbell) agreed to. the pr~posed. Bill does. not deal with safety precautiOns; It deals w1th the administration Resolution reported. of fire brigades in the State of Queensland. FIRST READING Mr. Bromley: Anything the fire brigade administration deals with relates to fire Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. safety. Campbell, read a first time. Mr. CAMPBELL: The honourable member for South Brisbane inquired INSPECTION OF MACHINERY ACT as to the stage reached in _appeals AMENDMENT BILL under legislation passed earlier m the session. I inform him that the District INITIATION IN COMMITTEE Court judge concerned, after hearing argu­ (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, ment for two days (I might add that it has Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) not yet finished), adjourned the hearing till the first sittings in the new year. Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minis­ ter for Development and Industrial Affairs) The honourable member for Pine Rivers began in a rather sarcastic vein and he (3.30 p.m.): I move- echoed the impatience expressed by the "That a Bill be introduced to amend honourable member for South Brisbane. X the Inspection of Machinery Act 1951- have referred already to the confusion which 1971 in certain particulars." exists in the minds of members of the Just over 12 months ago, legislation amend­ Opposition. ing the Inspection of Machinery Act was introduced, which included requirements in Mr. Bromley: Don't say it again, or you might be sent out under Standing Order relation to the issue of certificates of road­ 123A. worthiness for second-hand motor vehicles at the time of disposal. Since its implementa­ The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honour­ tion, this legislation has proved to be able member faces that possibility. extremely effective in upgrading the road­ worthiness and quality of used motor vehicles, _1\-~r. CAMPB~LL: The next matter per­ and in reducing the number of so-called tammg to the Bill was raised by the honour­ "bombs" which once were prevalent on our able member for Lytton. I inform him roads. It will be recalled that this legisla­ that the Private Hospitals' Association. has tion was initiated as a result of unanimous submitted a fire safety code to the Depart­ recommendations of a committee representing ment of Health. It has been discussed with all sections of the motor trade, relevant the Me~ropolitll:n Fire Brigades Board, the Government departments and the R.A.C.Q., State Fire Services Council and the depart­ which was convened especially to consider ment. the question of certain proposals to amend the Inspection of Machinery Act in order Mr. Burns: Don't you think too many to tackle the problem of unroadworthy motor people are involved? vehicles. 2334 Inspection of Machinery Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill

The success and effectiveness of the legisla­ One anomaly which revealed itself very tion is illustrated by the fact that, since early was that registrations could be trans­ its implementation in October 1972, a total ferred or re-registered at the Main Roads of 215,054 certificates of roadworthiness have Department without a certificate of road­ been issued by 1,044 approved inspection worthiness because the legislation did not stations employing 2,533 licensed examiners. require the certificate to be presented wi,th From statistical information supplied by the the transfer or re-registration documents. In approved inspection stations, 7,365 vehicles, the case of an application for re-registration or approximately 3.4 per cent of the total of a second-hand motor vehicle, this anomaly number of certificates issued, have failed to has been overcome in the amending legisla­ be presented for a second inspection or were tion by prescribing that the Main Roads rejected at the second inspection. I think Department may refuse to issue a certificate that very low percentage is quite noteworthy. of registration relating to a second-hand However, follow-up action is taken by the motor vehicle if the application for the issue Division of Occupational Safety in relation of that certificate of registration is not to those vehicles which have failed to be accompanied by the original copy of the re-presented or have been rejected. roadworthiness certificate. The Main Roads The Chief Inspector of Machinery has Department has agreed not to accept any received a total of only 459 complaints in applications for registration of second-hand connection with the issue of certificates of motor vehicles unless they are accompanied roadworthiness. Of these, 230 proved to be by a certificate of roadworthiness. As far as groundless following investigation by officers transfer of registration is concerned, the of the Divisiom of Occupational Safety. Of amending legislation makes it an offence the remainder, 88 prosecutions have been under the Inspection of Machinery Act not lodged, of which 51 have been heard and to submit the original copy of a road­ 37 are pending. The number of prosecutions worthiness certificate to the Department of awaiting approval and lodgment is 62. Main Roads with the application for transfer. Very real administrative and practical prob­ Following convictions for offences against lems would confront the Main Roads Depart­ Part IVA of the Act, one certificate as an ment if it insisted upon a similar provision approved inspection station has been can­ in the Main Roads Act. However, the celled and two have been suspended. The present liaison between the Main Roads position in connection with licensed examiners Department and my department is working is that two only have been suspended. very efficiently and effectively, and every car From the outset it was anticipated that, whose registration is being transferred, and once the legislation became operative, some in respect of which no certificate of road­ anomalies that were not apparent at the worthiness is produced, whilst being drafting stage would be revealed. This is quite registered, is followed up by the chief understandable in legislation such as this, which inspector and his officers. breaks completely new ground and which One business practice is to lease or hire is complex and controversial in its nature. second-hand motor vehicles. The committee For this reason, I undertook to arrange for unanimously agreed that it would be highly further meetings of the committee in order desirable for the definHion of "disposal" to to review the legislation after it had been be amended to specifically include the terms in operation for a period of six months. "leasing" and "hiring" in order to remove By way of interest, this committee now any possibility of misunderstanding or mis­ also includes a representative of the Queens­ interpretation. The definition of "disposal" land Motor Cycle Importers' and Whole­ has been further amended by exempting the salers' Association, which means that this requirement for a certificate of road­ additional and growing section of the motor worthiness in cases where transfers of regis­ trade is now represented. tration are simply consequent upon change Accordingly, meetings of the committee of name or identity of corporate bodies or were held, and these resulted in certain partnerships, or where registration is trans­ unanimous recommendations which, it is ferred by a will to the beneficiary of a believed, will contribute towards improving deceased estate. the effectiveness and administration of the At present, commercial vehicles carrying roadworthiness legislation. They are the a current certificate of inspection issued by only proposals incorporated in the Bill. the Chief Inspector of Machinery under section 35 of the Act must obtain a certificate I would emphasise that there is no doubt of roadworthiness on disposal. It is pro­ in the minds of the committee that generally posed that section 44H be amended in order the present legislation has been working to remove this necessity, provided the inspec­ successfully by removing unsafe vehicles from the road, and this, after all, is its primary tion conducted by the Division of Occupa­ objective. However, experience has revealed tional Safety on the commercial vehicle is several loopholes that can be used to avoid carried out within 30 days prior to the date compliance with the law. These proposed of disposal. amendments will help to streamline and, in Under the present legislation there is no certain respects, clarify the requirements of provision making it compulsory for the new Part IVA of the Act, and close these gaps. owner of a vehicle to be supplied with a Inspection of Machinery Act [6 DECEMBER 1973) Amendment Bill 2335 roadworthiness certificate. However, under In addition, the chief inspector is empowered the proposed amendment to section 44H, the to vary the period of suspension which may person disposing of a vehicle will be required be imposed by him. to furnish a duplicate copy of the relevant Under the present legislation there is no certificate to the subsequent owner. In the provision for any right of appeal against event of the duplicate copy being lost or any decision of the chief inspector with regard destroyed, the person disposing of the vehicle to the cancellation or suspension of a certifi­ must give to the purchaser a statutory cate as an approved inspection station or declaration as to the particulars contained a licence as an approved examiner. The pro­ in the certificate of roadworthiness, or, if posed new section 440A creates such a right of applicab.Je, the certificate issued by the chief appeal to a stipendiary magistrate. inspector. The final point I wish to make at this The onus of proving that the certificate time relates to an anomaly whereby an was, in fact, given to the new 0'.\ner, and officer of the Division of Occupational Safety that the original was submitted to the Main is unable to cancel defective certificates of Roads Department, shall lie upon the roadworthiness which he may observe at defendant. Therefore, the disposer of a inspection stations during the course of snap vehicle, if necessary, must be able to prove inspections or investigations into complaints. that he in fact obtained and distributed the While such defective certificates are a copies of the certificate as required. breach under the regulations, there is no In addition, it is proposed that, where an power presently conferred on inspectors with offence against the Act is committed by a regard to the cancellation of these certificates servant or agent of an owner, such offence which do not comply with the Act. The will be deemed to have been committed by proposed amendment empowers the Gov­ the owner. This will obviate a present diffi­ ernor in Council to make regulations to culty where, during the course of an investi­ overcome this anomaly. gation into an offence or complaint, it has I would like to extend my appreciation been found that the dealer simply claims that to the representatives of the committee who he was not responsible, as the disposal of took part in the discussions which resulted the vehicle had been effected by an employee in the Bill now before us. It is their extensive or agent and he was unaware that a personal knowledge, practical exper!ence _and certificate of roadworthiness had not been co-operation which has enabled th1s legisla­ obtained. tion to be implemented and to operate so In the case of a bona fide demonstration successfully. of a motor vehicle to a prospective purchaser, I am sure that, when these amendments there is no specific provision under the exist­ now proposed come into operation, this road­ ing Act which exempts the requirement of worthiness legislation under the Inspection a certificate of roadworthiness. The committee of Machinery Act will prove to be even was unanimous that such an exemption should more effective, and in practice will be at be incorporated. However, in the case of a least the equal of that operating in any sale eventuating from such demonstration an other State. "R" certificate will be required. Before closing I regret I have to refer to A shortcoming which has been revealed a most disturbing situation which operates in the roadworthiness legislation is that the to the detriment of legislative attempts being Chief Inspector of Machinery cannot take made in this State to remove unsafe motor action to call upon the proprietor of an vehicles from the road. Within the wider approved inspection station or a licensed context of this legislation, I feel it is com­ examiner to show cause why his certificate petent for me to make a quite pertinent and/ or licence should not be cancelled or observation in relation to the Commonwealth suspended until such time as a conviction Government's approach to disposal of its for an offence against the Act has been used vehicles and roadworthiness requirements obtained. in this State. Honourable members will know that it is the practice of the Queensland Usually there is a lengthy delay between Government to have its used vehicles certified the time when the investigating officer first roadworthy at the time of sale. One would becomes aware of a breach and when a think that in this regard the Federal Labor decision is given by the Magistrates Court. Government would either have set the During this period a large number of suspect example or followed ours. But it doesn't, certificates of roadworthiness could be issued, and won't. especially in view of the fact that the proprietor and/ or licensed examiner would be Mr. Wright: Did the Liberal Government aware that there is a possibility of losing ever do it? his certificate of approval and/ or licence. Mr. CAMPBELL: This legislation had In order to circumvent this, an amendment hardly been introduced before the change is proposed which empowers the chief in Government. inspector to call upon a proprietor and/ or examiner to show cause why his approval Mr. Wright: That's not true. This legisla­ and/ or licence should not be suspended or tion was in force when the Liberal Govern­ cancelled immediately a breach is detected. ment was there. 2336 Inspection of Machinery Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill

Mr. CAMPBELL: I said it had hardly measure which has been on the Business been introduced before the change in Govern­ Paper for some weeks, suddenly jumped ment. almost to the top of the Business Paper, thus On 11 December last, the Premier wrote bypassing many other important measures, to the Prime Minister requesting that all used simply because the Premier, and the Govern­ motor vehicles sold by the Federal Govern­ ment at large, have decided to use this ment in Queensland should have certificates Chamber as a Federal forum. We should of roadworthiness in compliance with State be dealing here with State matters. legislation. The Prime Minister's answer, The CHAIRMAN: Order! I commend that dated 8 October 1973, stated that the proposi­ procedure to the honourable member now. tion raised practical issues, including that of We are dealing with the Inspection of Department of Supply policy of selling all Machinery Act, and I should like the honour­ goods in an "as is" condition. While able member to keep to it. expounding the Federal Government's sup­ port of measures designed to promote Mr. BROMLEY: I will be keeping to it. road safety, the letter said that Federal Government policy on disposals would The CHAIRMAN: The Chair will ensure not be changed-and this, despite an that the honourable member does. acknowledgement that, in some cases, vehicles Mr. BROMLEY: I will make sure that sold through the disposal system on behalf I do, too, because I made some notes of of all Federal Government departments what the Minister said. would, in some cases, be in poor condition. I was surprised when the Minister became The Commonwealth rested on the fact that upset in replying to the debate on the last the expense of restoring these vehicles to a measure. The Government will not roadworthy condition would be prohibitive. co-operate with us. We are prepared to Honourable members would agree, I think, co-operate and, in the past, we have ~on:e that this is far from good enough. Queensland so. In the light of what has happened, It IS law requires a vehicle to have a roadworthi­ very unfair that anyone should chastise ness certificate before disposal. The Com­ Opposition members for wanting to speak monwealth argues that, as long as a vehicle about State matters. has a certificate at the time of re-registration, everything is all right. This apparently means When the Minister referred to "R" certifi­ that it believes a buyer should bring an "as cates, I did not know whether the "R" is" vehicle up to certificate standard at his referred to roadworthiness certificates or to own expense, and that the Commonwealth, "R" film certificates. as the seller, should be excluded from the The September issue of "The Road obligation. This is quite a shocking shedding Ahead", the R.A.C.Q. publication, contains of responsible contribution to road safety. almost word for word what the Minister has Despite this, the people have been subjected just told us. This was made public in to yet another lip-service pronouncement, this September-three months ago-long before time by the Federal Minister for Transport Parliament knew anything about it. We in (Mr. Jones). Mr. Jones announced that the this place should be the first to know about Federal Government was examining its con­ these things. stitutional powers to see if it could obtain Mr. Wright: It is contempt of Parliament. wider powers to legislate nationally on road safety. He even suggested that motorists Mr. BROMLEY: Of course it is. It might driving interstate may have to face a com­ be all right for the Minister to claim that pulsory roadworthiness check. Apart from we are fortunate to have read something the hypocrisy of it all, honourable members about it. But how often can we believe could well imagine the chaos at Christmas what is printed in the Press, whether it be time when tens of thousands of vehicles a "The Road Ahead" or the daily newspapers? day will cross and re-cross the border at I was reading the article in "The Road Coolangatta alone. Ahead" during the Minister's introduction I commend the motion for the consideration of the Bill. Frankly, I am disappointed with of the Committee. him. He talks about co-operation. He should be ashamed of himself. Mr. BROMLEY (South Brisbane) (3.48 Naturally, the Minister had to say that p.m.): The Opposition is completely disgusted this legislation has been almost a complete at the way the Government is fiddling around success. I completely disagree with him; with the order of dealing with legislation in it has not been a complete success. In this Chamber. Since August, the Premier fact, it has hardly been a partial success. and other Government members have used this Assembly as a Federal forum. When Mr. Campbell: Who is roasting whom the Government realised that Christmas was now? virtually upon us, it suddenly decided to get down to dealing with State legislation. Mr. BROMLEY: I am roasting the Min­ Yesterday I understood, as did other hon­ ister because he roasted me. If he wants ourable members, that certain Bills had not to dish it out, he should be prepared to even been to the Government Printer. This take it. Inspection of Machinery [6 DECEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 2337

Roadworthiness certificates, as provided roadworthiness certificate, he has no claim for in the existing legislation, are not against the seller, even if the car has no ihe real answer. When that legislation was steering wheel-or even no wheels at all. introduced, the Minister claimed that the Mr. Lee: It would be a bit hard to drive Federal Government would not remove out without wheels. unsafe vehicles from the roads. I remind the Committee that, at that time, the Liberal­ Mr. BROMLEY: Yes, it would be. I do Country Party Government was in power in not want to digress, Mr. Hewitt, but perhaps Canberra. If the Minister introduces party I might be permitted to mention that the politics into the matter, he should at least other night a friend of mine got into his be fair. car to return from the theatre and, when he went to start the vehicle, nothing happened. When the original legislation was intro­ The car had been jacked up, and the wheels duced, I said there was only one way to had been removed. overcome this problem. My suggestion might In many cases, motor vehicle warranties not suit everybody, irrespective of the type are not worth the paper they are written on. of work he does or whether he is in the One firm advertises on television, "Any old lower or higher income bracket, but the iron, any old iron." I do not intend to name only way to overcome the problem is to have the firm, as it will be well known to all who annual inspections of all vehicles that are have seen the advertisement. I often wonder at least two years old or have done 10,000 if that is a good description of the cars that miles. various firms are selling-"Any old iron, any old iron." New cars today are rubbish, arul Recently, in Japan, I spoke to representa­ one only has to look at some of them to see tives of Mitsubishi and other Japanese com­ why it is that they fall to pieces. panies that produce good cars. I saw only Mr. Lee: It makes you sick to listen to 14 second-hand-car yards in Tokyo. I was that TV ad. told that people there do not run cars that are more than three or four years old. After Mr. BROMLEY: I agree. that period they trade them in and the New cars are absolute rubbish, and in cars are probably recycled for manufacture my opinion they should be examined for into new cars. I suppose there are not roadworthiness. I know that some of them many car yards because land is so expen­ carry a 12 months' warranty, or whatever it is, but many of them cannot be driven home sive and scarce. But, when that is the pro­ from the showroom without giving trouble on cedure, it makes me think. At least cars the way. It is amazing to find some of the in Japan are in a roadworthy condition all things that go wrong when brand-new cars are the time. being driven by the purchaser for the first Getting back to the failure, or partial time. success, of the legislation-however the Min­ I am speaking not only from my own ist.er likes to. refer to it; I will be reasonably experience. Shortly I intend to quote from fmr-I was mformed by a person who paid a newspaper article in which reference is nearly $300 for a 10-year-old car-or "bomb" made to tests carried out by the R.A.C.Q. I I s~ppose .it should be called-that following think motor-car manufacturers should be an mspectwn by the R.A.C.Q., which would examined for "truthworthiness". be the best Queensland organisation to Mr. Lee: Here is a fair question: do you check the roadworthiness of a car, he was think a 12-12 warranty means 12 yards and told that it would cost him more than $150 12 minutes? to repair the car so that it could be driven safely. One of the front wheels was not Mr. BROMLEY: I'U pay that one. I think even connected to the steering mechanism. It the honourable member is pretty close to had no stop light, a defective handbrake the mark with some of the "bombs" that and many other faults. But it had a road~ are put o~ the road today. As I say, I think _worthiness certificate, and this person bought motor-car manufacturers should be examined It. The od.ometer showed 33,000 miles, for "truthworthiness" in their advertisements. and, accordmg to the R.A.C.Q. expert it In fact, I think they should be subjected to had obviously been changed from 133 000 a lie-detector test. miles. I suppose he was lucky that there What I am saying is borne out by a news­ was even a steering wheel on the car! I paper article that appeared in "The Courier­ could quote many similar cases, but this Mail" on 10 March 1973. It is headed, "Brake vehicle is a good example of · the rorts faults in 'new' cars". and rackets that go on in some garages in From that, one might conclude that the the issuing of roadworthiness certificates. cars in question only had brake faults, but One of the deficiencies in the legislation the article says-1 do not intend to read the is that once a buyer accepts a certificate whole of it- of roadworthiness from the person selling "An automobile clubs' survey of cars the vehicle, he has no claim against the under warranty revealed a wide range of vendor in respect of any defects in the car. defects in the breaking system of all I stress that once the buyer has accepted a models except the Valiant Galant. 74 2338 Inspection of Machinery (6 DECEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill

"The survey of 3,500 cars was made made today. I can remember having a by automobile clubs in each State. The Whippet; I can remember also having a Royal Automobile Club of Queensland 1927 Chev. In those days, if one had any released a report on it yesterday." worries, one only had to lift up the bonnet As I have said, we are dealing not only with and fix the trouble in about two minutes, new cars but also with second~hand cars then go and pick up one's girl-friend, or and the warranty that is supposed to apply take her home, as the case may be. to them, and it is all tied up with road­ The article then goes on to speak of wheel worthiness certificates on second-hand cars. alignment, and it says also that lights were I shall very quickly go through some of bad in a large percentage of cars. Electrical the headings in the article. It continued- defects were numerous, and air-filter prob­ "The report said that, of the cars tested, lems showed up prominently. In cars 38 per cent of six-cylinder Holden Toranas, warranted up to 12,000 miles there was a 24 per cent of Ford Cortinas, and 23 per high incidence of distributor problems, and cent of Morris Minis, Clubmans, 1300's again many different makes were mentioned. and 1500's, were shown by road tests to It then refers to oil leaks in various cars, have defeotive brakes. including Japanese cars. I do not want to "Wheel balance defects were found on mention only the well-known Australian 22 per cent of the tested Ford Falcon, makes. Futura and Fairmont XY and XA models. Mr. B. Wood: We haven't any of our own "The Morris Mini, Clubman, 1300 and now. 1500 models tested had excessive front tyre tread wear on 29 per cent and 18 Mr. BROMLEY: As the honourable mem­ per cent had excessive rear tread wear." ber for Barron River says, we have none of our own now. We may have had when Valiants were in almost the same category, the Holden was first produced. This article and, of the Ford Escorts tested, 15 per mentions almost every make of car. The cent had a wheel-balance problem. report was compiled by the R.A.C.Q., which The bearings were bad in most of the cars is probably the most efficient organisation to and the article said- ' road-test motor vehicles. It makes one "Most cars tested which had 12,000-mile wonder wha't make of car one should buy. warranty showed defective wheel-bearing I said I would deal with two issues of adjustments-" "The Road Ahead". The September issue (that bears out my point that all cars should refers to the amendments we are now deal­ be road-tested annually after 10,000 miles ing with, and the October issue refers to service) complaints received by the Consumer Affairs "ranging from 26 per cent of Valiants and Bureau about various motor vehicles. Unfor­ 22 per cent of HQ Hoidens to a low 3 tunately time will not permit me to deal per cent of Morris Minis, Clubmans, in detail with what is published in the latter 1300's and 1500's." issue. It then goes on to deal with 12,000-mile I again draw to the Minister's attention a warranty vehicles with brake defects, and it matter I took up with him by way of corres­ lists virtually every car of which honourable pondence. It concerns a complaint received members have ever heard. Just what are by the secretary of an A.L.P. branch. He these new cars? Are we driving to our was directed to send the complaint to me. death in them? If we are, then we really Mr. Frawley: It wasn't the Clontarf ought to be doing something about stepping branch? up the action we are taking relative to second-hand cars, and I do not think that Mr. BROMLEY: No, the Ithaca branch. the loop-holes the Minister is closing in this In a letter dated 1 April 1973, this gentle­ Bill will provide the answer that is needed. man said- Mr. B. Wood: What about Renaults? "At the March meeting of the Ithaca E.E.C. a motion was passed instructing Mr. BROMLEY: Renauits are mentioned me to write to you and point out that:- in the article. If the honourable member Owners of second-hand vehicles when mentions the make of any car, I am sure it attempting to resell to a buyer direct will be mentioned here. are required to obtain a certificate Mr. Houghton: What about a Whippet? from a licensed garage at a cost of $4 and that such certificate is only Mr. BROMLEY: We talk about grey­ valid for 28 days. It is felt that this hounds in this Chamber; I don't know about places an undue burden on a private whippets. seller. "We understand that the whole business Mr. B. Wood: I am told that Whippets come up better than the new cars. of certification is creating complaints with the Department of Main Roads and would Mr. BROMLEY: I do not wish to get off ask you to advise us if any steps are the subject, but I suggest that some of the being taken to change the present pro­ vintage cars are better built than those being cedure." Inspection of Machinery [6 DECEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 2339

I wrote to the Minister on this matter. First members to know that, of the 221 inspections of all, I rang Mr. Muhl. He was very done by my particular business, 173 were courteous, and we had a long discussion knocked back on the first inspection. Most about the matter. He asked me to write of them passed on the second occasion. This him a note, which he said he would refer legislation has proved to be effective in to the Minister. getting unroadworthy vehicles off the road. (Time expired.) When a motor vehicle comes in for inspec­ tion, the examiner writes out a list of the Mr. FRAWLEY (Murrumba) (4.8 p.m.): faults and, once it is written on the form I congratulate the Minister and the officers supplied by the Machinery Department, in of his department for having introduced triplicate, there is no way of changing it. this amending Bill. When the Act was first After a car is inspected by an examiner, proclaimed, it did contain certain anomalies, the owner has 30 days in which to rectify as is to be expected with any new piece of the faults and bring it back for a second legislation. inspection. I do not normally agree with the honour­ It is interesting to note that some people able member for South Brisbane, but on actually threaten examiners who fail to this occasion I concur in some of the things pass their vehicles. This has actually hap­ he said. He suggested that new cars should pened at my place. My examiners have been be checked for roadworthiness. I point out threatened by people-not dealers, but ordin­ that new car dealers do a pre-delivery service ary members of the public. I remember one on a new vehicle, which takes approximately case involving an old model Ford Zephyr. eight hours. When a new car comes from I think it was a 1954 model. One look at a factory, there are many little things that it would be sufficient to put it off the road. have to be adjusted. I have seen new cars The tyres were shocking, the front suspen­ without any oil in the differential, without sion was faulty and there were many other any oil in the gearbox and without any faults. The owner actually wanted to "belt" water in the radiator. the examiner because he would not pass it. He argued and carried on and then came Mr. Leese: Would you say that all new and towed the car away in the middle of car dealers do this? the night and would not pay for the inspec­ Mr. FRAWLEY: Of course not, but they tion. The cost of the examination is actually should do it. They should pick up all these $3.50. little faults. Some shady second-hand-car dealers bring I honestly believe that new cars are basic­ vehicles for an inspection and later swap ally safe when they come from the factory. the tyres. The inspection includes examina­ But there is always the chance with any tion of the tyres. If they have not enough new motor vehicle, or any motor vehicle tread on them-! think it is one-sixteenth at all, that certain things can happen. For of an inch-the car cannot be passed. Some instance, any honourable member on his dealers bring in for inspection a car fitted way home tonight could blow a brake hose with a really good set of tyres. After obtain­ on the first application of his brakes. He ing the certificate, they take it back to their could blow a hose or a wheel cylinder in the yard and swap the tyres around. They have driveway of Parliament House. already sold the car with an old set of tyres on it, and they say to the purchaser, Mr. Wright interjected. ''We will get the certificate. Come back this afternoon at 3 o'clock." Having fitted Mr. FRAWLEY: I am not interested in another set of tyres, they then "whip" the surveys. I do my own surveys on cars. car up to the nearest registered inspection What I have just mentioned can happen. station. After having it inspected they take It has happened to me on more than one it back, put on the worn set of tyres,-often occasion. I have been driving a second-hand regrooved, and sell it. The inspection station vehicle when a brake hose has blown. Prior cannot be blamed for this, nor can the to that it had looked all right from the out­ owner. This is a trick put over by some side. dishonest second-hand-car dealers. Most new motor vehicles have a dual Another serious matter concerns garages braking system so that, if a brake hose which find fictitious faults. I have for­ or a cylinder blows on either the front warded on to the Machinery Department and or rear wheels, the other set of brakes is Main Roads Department many such com­ still operative. Such a braking system should plaints from people who are selling a vehicle be mandatory. I think it will be mandatory privately. This trouble never happens with for new cars in the future. a dealer. A private seller takes his car to Tne Inspection of Machinery Act came an inspection station, and the examiner finds into force on 1 October. The first inspection no end of things wrong with it. The station at my premises was on 9 October. Since finds all sorts of fictitious faults and charges the Act came into force, a total of 215 054 a hell of a price to rectify them. This is certificates of roadworthiness have been practised because seven times out of 10 issued by I ,044 approved inspection stations the inspecting station is asked to do the -an average of about 206 inspections a job. People are being defrauded in this station. It may be of some interest to way. 2340 Inspection of Machinery [6 DECEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill

One man came to me with a Mini Minor A total of 459 complaints have been which he had inspected at another service received in connection with the issue of station. I happened to be there this Satur­ certificates of roadworthiness. I suggest that day morning. The quote was $180. The the number would be higher if people who other station had told him that the whole have complaints were prepared to lodge braking system on the car was completely them. Unfortunately, however, many people shot to pieces. The other station did not do not bother doing so. know that my station had maintained that vehicle for the previous 12 months, and I agree that the certificate of an approved we knew very well that it was not in that inspection station should be immediately condition. I told the owner to take it to cancelled if the holder is found to engage the Machinery Department. I said, "Do not in malpractice. I am aware of one such fix anything. Let the 30 days expire. The station that issues a certificate in return for Department will send vou a letter. Then the payment of $10. take it to Dutton Park and have it checked." Mr. Wright: Have you told the Minister He did just that. He waited until he was about it? sent a notice. I deliberately did this because I did not want to become involved in the Mr. FRAWLEY: Of course I haven't. matter. This man took the car to Dutton Mr. Wrigbt: Why not? Park where the braking system was examined and found to be perfect. The requirements Mr. FRAWLEY: Because I can't prove it. that had to be met on this car only cost $60, including a stock-retread valued at Mr. K. J. Hooper: It's hearsay. about $11. The Machinery Department found only $49 worth of faults, yet the other Mr. FRAWLEY: It's not hearsay. I have garage had tried to hit this man for $180. been shown such certificates by car-owners, but if I were to ask them to sign a statutory This goes on a lot at a particular service declaration they would back out for fear station in Redcliffe. I am not going to of receiving publicity. name it yet, but if I have too many more complaints about it I am going to name it I also know of a car wrecker who pur­ on the floor of this Chamber and mention chased a motor vehicle for wrecking purposes some of the shocking deals put over people. and then cancelled the registration so that he Being in the business myself, I have pur­ could sell it to a widow who wanted the posely refrained from mentioning the names vehicle for her son, who, unfortunately, did of other stations because I do not want to not know anything about motor-cars. Although be accused of giving them a bad name to I submitted all the facts of the case to the get the work for myself. As is well known, department, no action was taken for the when an inspection is carried out by my reason that the transaction was, unfortun­ mechanics, I insist that the repair work be ately, quite legal. The car wrecker simply done elsewhere unless the owner is a regular put it over the woman. No-one who con­ customer and has been dealing with me for ducts a car-wrecking yard should be allowed some time. When a stranger comes in to sell a motor vehicle in one piece. and wants an inspection, we do it, give him his copy of the certificate and tell him Mr. K. J. Hooper: What about tow-truck to get the faults fixed somewhere else. My dealers? reason for this is that, in my position as a member of Parliament, I do not want any Mr. FRAWLEY: I sold my tow-truck in of my politial opponents alleging that I December of last year. Because of the duck­ engage in shady practices. Everyone knows ing and shoving on the part of insurance that at times members of all political parties companies that would not meet the cost of stoop to underhand tactics. I am losing a certain tows, there was no money in tow­ lot of business by not doing this work, truck operations, so I got out. Mr. Leese interjected. Mr. K. J. Hooper: You were too slow getting to the scene of the accident. Mr. FRAWLEY: The honourable mem­ ber would be one of the first to do it. Mr. FRAWLEY: I certainly was not. The He would come down to the Clontarf branch tow-truck operators in Redcliffe are very of the A.L.P. and try to stir up trouble, well organised. just as he has done previously for the honourable member for Redcliffe and me. I know of instances where a second-hand­ Mr. Wright: If you haven't been accused car dealer cancels the registration of a vehicle of it, why raise the matter now? that he has purchased and subsequently, when selling it, says to the buyer, "I will Mr. FRAWLEY: I have not been accused pay the registration, but you obtain the of it. I have taken care to ensure that no­ roadworthiness certificate." On purchasing the one has grounds for accusing me of it. vehicle for perhaps $150 to $200, the buyer But I am aware of some of the dirty, finds that the vehicle is in such a poor state rotten tactics adopted by the A.L.P. I know of repair that it is put off the road. In of some of its snide, underhand moves such a case the buyer is not able to take against its political opponents. That is why action against the dealer. This practice should I would not take any chances. be stopped. Inspection of Machinery [6 DECEMBER 1973) Act Amendment Bill 2341

The Main Roads Department should refuse member wishes me to. Roadworthiness certifi­ to accept any transfer form that is handed cates should be required for caravans. Many in unless it is accompanied by a road­ of those on the road are in an unroadwmthy worthiness certificate. Police stations and condition. court-houses could be instructed not to I congratulate the Minister on introducing accept transfer documents unless accompanied this legislation. It is timely, but I believe by such a certificate. At the present time that, at a later date, further amendments a transfer document is not accepted unless may be required. accompanied by the stamp duty certificate, so a similar practice could be followed with Mr. LEESE (Pine Rivers) (4.22 p.m.): In certificates of roadworthiness. Those trans­ dealing with this legislation, all honourable fer forms that are posted to the depart­ members could recount stories about their men could easily be returned. constituents being taken down when buying second-hand vehicles. The Minister will be A roadworthiness certificate is effective pleased to know that, on this occasion, I for 28 or 30 days. I quite agree with the welcome the legislation. I welcome any contention that a second-hand-car dealer improvement that relates to the sale of should not be required to obtain such a second-hand vehicles, but I am concerned certificate for a vehicle that is used for particularly about the leasing of second-hand demonstrations. Nor, for that matter, should vehicles. Knowing, as I do, some of the he be required to obtain a certificate for rorts that are practised, I do not believe that any vehicle in his yard. Many second-hand­ second-hand vehicles should be leased. car dealers would not turn over all their One large company that operates in Bris­ stock within a period of 30 days. If they bane deals mainly in the leasing of second­ were required to have a certificate for each hand vehicles. Some six to nine months ago car, on the expiration of the period of 30 I made representations on behalf of a person days they would be required to obtain a who was involved with this company, which second certificate for each unsold car. I deals mainly with people on low incomes­ point out to members of the Opposition particularly migrants without any financial that I do not sell second-hand cars. background or history-who find it hard to ra'ise a deposit or enter into hire-purchase Mr. Bromley: What happens if a dealer agreements. The company t~lls prospective is selling a car to a buyer, but the sale clients. "We will lease a vehrcle to you on falls through after the time expires? a verv small deposit." The buyer is given a descr(ption of a vehicle but he does not see it. Mr. FRAWLEY: The dealer is required Admittedly the person for whom I acted was to obtain a second certificate. That is foolish to sign the papers, but when he unfortunate. I tell anyone who comes to eventually saw the vehicle he had contracted my business for a roadworthiness certifi·cate to lease he found that it did not have a not to get it until the sale is clinched. A pros­ clutch. When I say that it did not have a pective buyer should bring a vehicle to a clutch I do not mean that the clutch was garage, pay for an inspection to find out worn 'out· there was just no clutch in the what is wrong with it, and then get a vehicle. When he raised this matter with roadworthiness certificate. In this way he the company he was told, "Hard luck, mate_ would save a Jot of time and money. I know You are leasing the vehicle and it is your of instances in which sales have fallen responsibility to keep it in good order." th_rough, the owners, at a later date, have I have here a copy of the four-page contract tned to get the roadworthiness certificate that the company uses when leasing vehicle~. extended. That cannot be done· another After the client si11ns the lease contract, rt certificate must be made out. ' is his responsibility to keep the vehicle in It is to the advantage of used-car dealers good order. To emphasise my point I shall to keep all vehicles in a roadworthy condition. read clause 2.12, which is in these terms- When a dealer tells a buyer that he has to 'The Lessee will during the term of get a roadworthiness certificate for a certain the lease at his cost and expense cause car, it is taken to an inspection station. the equipment where such equipment is a It may find many faults and, if the prospective motor vehicle to be serviced at regular buyer cannot get the vehicle almost immedi­ intervals as recommended by the manufac­ ately, he may become sour and the sa'le turers or in any event at not le •s than could fall through. fonr weekly intervals and for that p:.1rpose shall produce the said equipment to the I suggest to the Minister that roadworthi­ ness certificates should apply to caravans. I Lessor to carry out such service." know of caravans that have faulty tow-bars, At this point of time roadworthiness certifi­ stop lights and trafficators, with the ball joint cates were not required, and it was simply being used as the earth. In fact, the member a matter of transfer. I hope the legislation for Pine Rivers has a caravan in this con­ tightens that aspect up. After leasing one dition. It could not possibly get a road­ of these "bombs", the lessor requires the worthine,ss certificate. I have here a photo­ lessee to return to him to have the vehicle graph of it with the caption, "K. Leese, serviced. In addition, under the contract, M.L.A. for Pine Rivers, Deals on Wheels". the vehicle must be kept in good order at I will table the photograph if the honourable al1 times. The lessor has the advantage of 2342 Inspection of Machinery (6 DECEMBER I973] Act Amendment Bill being able to say, "The big end is going", roadworthiness certificate had been issued or 'There is something wrong with the gear­ showing that certain faults had to be cor­ box." As a result, a lot of "ghost" work rected, but the motor was completely takes place and the lessee continually has his "clapped out". We may say, "He should hand in his pocket paying for repair work have realised it was in poor condition. He that is not really necessary. should have known that the motor was In this particular case, it could be claimed 'clapped out'." He wanted the car for tow­ that it was the person's fault for signing the ing a caravan, and he will now lose about contract. The pity of it is that he could $600 because he has to get rid of it. neither read nor write. His only claim to We should be attempting to tidy up the fame was that he had been taught to sign legal position in used-car dealing. This is an his name. However, this matter had to be area in which people sign contracts only to taken to court before he could get out of discover later that they have let themselves the contract, because it was fairly watertight. into watertight deals as a result of which In addit,ion to signing the lease contract, far too often they finish up with a load of the lessee has to sign a bill of sale. People junk that is of no use at all. who can ill afford to do so are signing away Mr. Frawley: Anyone who buys a used their refrigerators, television sets and other car without having it inspected by a mechanic household appliances, and if they do not keep or the R.A.C.Q. is a fool. up the payments they lose not only the car but also the appliances. Of course, the lessee Mr. LEESE: I agree that every person has to guarantee to keep those appliances in who buys a second-hand car should have good order as well. I could go on and on it inspected by a competent mechanic. How­ in this matter. ever in practice this does not always happen. The honourable member for Murrumba Far too often people who set out to buy said he could men!Jion the names of the a used car look no further than the shiny companies, but did not want to. I have exterior. I certainly agree that all buyers of no similar fear. I recommend that no second-hand cars should have them checked worker or other person should lease a vehicle before purchase. from this company, named Auto Investments The Minister for Justice has in the past Pty. Ltd. As far as I am concerned, it published pamphlets warning prospective pur­ gives a crooked deal to the average citizen. chasers, and informing them of the avenues Mr. Frawley: It is a subsidiary of Ken­ open to them in the field of consumer affairs. nedys Pty. Ltd. You didn't know that, did I think this Minister could similarly warn you? people that a roadworthiness certificate is not an indication that the vehicle to which Mr. LEESE: I do not care whose sub­ it refers is in AI condition, and tell them sidiary company it is, although I doubt very that all it means is that the vehicle is safe mach whether it is a subsidiary of Kennedys. to be driven at that point of time. It should It would surprise me if it was. People be made clear that it is still essential to should have no truck with this company. have the vehicle checked by a competent Obviously, roadworthiness certificates are mechanic or the R.A.C.Q. before signing a not the be-all and end-all. Although they sale document. may indicate that a vehicle is safe to go on the road, they are no proof that the person Hon. F. A. CAMPBELL (Aspley-Minister is making a good buy. The public should for Development and Industrial Affairs) be educated in this matter. Not every mem­ (4.32 p.m.), in reply: I seem to have stirred ber of the public is engineering-minded. up a hornet's nest in the mind of the Usually, people do not know whether a honourable member for South Brisbane, par­ vehicle is in good condition or not. Some ticularly by my reference to the failure of do not even know where to put the petrol the Commonwealth Government to follow in. A roadworthiness certificate gives them the Queensland Government's lead in requir­ the idea that the car is in AI condition. As ing that every Government vehicle that is all honourable members know, the warranty sold be accompanied by a roadworthiness on a second-hand vehicle is not worth 2c. certificate. It was implied that I was perhaps As I said, people get the idea that be:ause trying to be party-political. the vehicle carries a roadworthiness certifi­ I was asked if such a request was made cate they must be making a good buy. So, to the previous Federal Government. I should instead of doing what they should-take the like to narrate the trend of events. The car to the R.A.C.Q. or a reputable mechanic regulations were introduced in October I972, for checking-they assume that it is safe and it was not until two months had elapsed and has no problems. Honourable members that the Queensland Government decided to must have hordes of people coming to them require that its vehicles, which at that time and say1ing, "Can you get me out of this 'Aere sold by the Public Curator in "as-is" deal?", and they must know that this is condition, should also carry roadworthiness not the case. certificates. It was decided that it was not In another case to my knowledge, a young good government to sell them in "as-is" con­ man thought he was buying a I968 Falcon dition and arrangements were accordingly but, instead, was sold a I966 model. A made with the various departments to have Inspection of Machinery [6 DECEMBER 1973] Act Amendment Bill 2343

State Government vehicles brought up to the suggestion-typical of the honourable member standard required of all other second-hand -and I shall certainly have it considered vehicles when being sold. at the next meeting of the Motor Trade In December of last year I asked the Committee. Premier to write to the Prime Minister, which Mr. Bromley: What about my deputation he did, requesting him to consider following the lead of the Queensland Government. to you? Nine months elapsed before the Premier received a reply. The Prime Minister Mr. CAMPBELL: I acknowledge that. I apologise for the lapse of time before reply­ was waiting for the honourable member for ing, and then said in no uncertain terms South Brisbane to make at least one positive that the Commonwealth Department of Sup­ suggestion in his contribution. ply could not see its way clear to bring vehicles that it sold up to the requirements In contrast with the honourable member for of Queensland legislation. I am not being South Brisbane, the honourable member for political in making this explanation. Pine Rivers expressed his appreciation of the Mr. Bromley: Most of their cars are well way the system is working. He supported looked after. these amendments and said they are well worth while. I am glad he mentioned the Mr. CAMPBELL: I agree that the great mistaken idea of some people that a road" majority of Commonwealth cars presented worthiness certificate is a warranty of good to the public in "as-is" condition would be mechanical performance. We do take in fairly good shape. It was stated in the Prime Minister's letter that some cars would steps to make it known that a roadworthiness be in such poor condition that the cost of certificate is what it says-a certificate of bringing them up to the requirements of roadworthiness-and is not a comment on the legislation would be prohibitive, and for the mechanical condition of the vehicle. I that reason the Commonwealth preferred not agree with the honourable member that to do it. everyone why buys a second-hand vehicle The honourable member for South Bris­ should have all aspects of it checked before bane questioned the efficiency of the present he purchases it. I am amazed that people system. I firmly believe that the statistical will invest $1,000 or more in a motor vehicle experience which I put before the Committee does not support his allegation that the system or some other article and have so little is a failure. He also said that he does not regard for their investment that they will believe that the closing of the loop-holes that take anybody's point of view on it. As the the Bill proposes to close will have a great honourable member for Pine Rivers said, deal of effect. I simply say to him, "That they assume that the glossy sheen on the remains to be seen." body indicates the condition of the car as a The honourable member for Murrumba whole. spoke from practical experience and gave the With all the information we put out and Committee some very sound advice. The ears of some used-car dealers must now be all our urging of people to take care not to burning as a result of the trenchant comments be hoodwinked, we do not seem to be able made by the honourable member for to overcome the problem. As I said yester­ Murrumba, and other honourable members, day, I do not think we ought to act com­ about the shady deals being perpetrated by pletely as "Big Brother" in these matters. In certain sections of the used-car trade. this age of higher education, I find it difficult to understand how people can be so easily The honourable member indicated that 75 hoodwinked by those who are lying in wait per cent of the cars examined at his testing station were rejected at the first inspection. to ensnare them in unfortunate financial If testimony is needed as to the effectiveness deals. of the legislation, imperfect though honour­ I thank honourable members for their able members might think it is, I think it is approach to the legislation, and I again com­ to be found in that statement. The honour­ mend it to the Committee. able member gave an example of some car­ owners adopting stand-over tactics-! think Motion (Mr. Campbell) agreed to. other honourable members also gave examples of this-in an endeavour to obtain a false Resolution reported. certificate. I am always amazed at man's inhumanity to man in this and other fields. FIRST READING The honourable member also advocated the extension of roadworthiness certificates to Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. include caravans. This is a very sensible Campbell, read a first time. 2344 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT AND Award-that is, all officers receiving above ANOTHER ACT AMENDMENT BILL the automatic clerical scale of salaries. This INITIATION IN COMMITTEE level has been adopted after discussions with the Local Government Association executive (Mr. W. D. Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the and V\ould seem to cover all officers who chair) may face dismissal as a result of thei~ con­ tact with members of the local authonty or Hon. H. A. McKEC.HNIE (Carnarvon­ the public, or involvement in policies of the Ministcr for Local Government and Elec­ council. Examples of officers covered would tricity) (4.43 p.m.): I move- be-and these are only examples-town and ''That a Bill be introduced to amend shire clerks and their deputies, accountants the Local Government Act 1936-1973 and senior clerks, engineers, planning officers, and the City of Brisbane Town Planning vverseers, and building inspec,tors. Act 1964-1972 each in certain particulars." The proposed appeal procedures are _based The purpose of this Bill is to amend the on the provisions of the City of Bnsbane Local Government Act and the City of Act as recently amended, and appeals will be Brisbane Town Planning Act, each in certain heard by an appeal board consisting of a particulars. The Bill incorporates some stipendiary magistrate appointed . by the important principles, some interim measures, Minister, as chairman, a representative of the and some amendments of a more machinery local authority concerned, and a representa­ nature. All of the proposed amendments tive of the union of which the dismissed are considered necessary and desirable for officer was a member. As in Brisbane, the the more effective working of local govern­ appeal board may order reinstatement of the ment in the State, and have been agreed dismissed officer if it finds in his favour, to by the executive of the Local Govern­ but the local authority may still refuse to ment Association of Queensland. Without reinstate and elect to pay compensation. further ado I will proceed to outline to the Committee the various provisions con­ The amount of compensation will be the tained in the Bill, commencing with the same as in Brisbane, being an amount equal proposed amendments of the Local Govern­ to four weeks' salary for every year of ment Act. service with the local authority or any local authority in Queensland, including the Bris­ The first amendment is a machinery pro­ bane City Council. vision giving power for the Governor in Council to constitute a shire as a town, or Officers such as health inspectors, who are a town as a shire. This provision widens already protected under the H~~lth Act, are the present discretion in such matters avail­ excluded from the appeal prov!Slons. Before able to the Governor in Council. A case in such officers can be employed or dismissed view is a possible change of status of the by a local authority, the approval of .the town of Torres, replacing the town of Thurs­ Director-General of Health and Medical day Island, to the Shire of Torres. The Services must be obtained. In these circum­ town of Torres includes Thursday Island, stances, it is considered that there is no all other Torres Strait islands under Queens­ need for the appeal provisions to be applied land jurisdiction, and the northern tip of to these officers. Cape York Peninsula. It is considered that, It is appreciated that, at the 1973. C?n­ having regard to the nature of the area ference of the Local Government Association concerned, it would be more appropriate for of Queensland a motion to provide a right it to be called a shire, but there is no power under present law whereby this can of appeal to all employees ?f local author!ties be done. The Bill contains the necessary was lost. However, followmg representatiOns power in that behalf. from professional bodies. s_uch .as the I~­ stitute of Municipal Admmistration, and m At this stage I inform the Committee that view of the apparent need for rights of appeal at 12 noon today the Town of Torres was at least at certain levels in the local Govern­ created, incorporating all the islands north ment service, and similar rights exis'ting in of the 11th degree of south latitude, which the Brisbane City Council and in the Public lies just below the settlement of Bamaga, to Service the matter was discussed with the within several miles of the New Guinea Local Government Association executive and coast. This whole area will be the Town of rights of appeal agreed upon to the extent Torres until such time as this amendment now proposed. is approved by Parliament, when it will be declared the Shire of Torres. Again, as in the case of t~e. recent City of Brisbane Bill, a retrospectiVIty clause IS An important amendment provides a proposed, backdating the right of appeal right of appeal for officers dismissed by local 'to 1 January 1973. This is done with<:ut authorities. The right of appeal against dis­ any specific dismissa1s in mind, but WI.th missal is proposed for officers of all local the same intention as in the case of Ens­ authorities outside Brisbane who receive an bane that if any summary dismissals occur, annual salary at least equal to the minimum the right 'of appeal should exist. The sitl!a­ annual salary payable to a male clerical tion could also arise of dismissals takmg officer after seven years of adult service in place in anticipation of the passing of the accordance with the Municipal Officers Bill, and to avoid the provisions thereof. Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2345

A further amendment proposed in the Bill that the local authority be notified of all remedies an apparent deficiency in the Act, changes of ownership, and the Bill provides in that a local authority does not appear to accordingly. have power to arrange insurance cover for The Bill includes certain provisions on its members against injury sustained by them the subject of metric conversion, as transi­ when they are attending deputations and tional measures. The first provision empowers conferences on behalf of the local authority. a local authority to adopt by resolution The draft Bill clarifies ,that a local authority metric conversions of imperial values stated may arrange insurance cover for its members in its by-laws, subject to values so adopted in these circumstances. being within a tolerance of 5 per cent of the values stated in the by-laws. The pro­ The Local Government Act presently vision will apply to all local authorities, requires a local authority to keep a. valua­ including Brisbane, and extend for a period tion register in a particular form. This form of two years. The provision is essential to was designed to meet the circumstances that assist in smoothing over metric conversion prevailed before local authority valuations as it relates to local authorities, and will were made by the Valuer-General and, in give a reasonable time to local authorities practice, the valuation roll prepared by ~e to amend their by-laws to convert imperial Valuer-General is used as the valuatiOn measurements to metric measurements. register. In view of this, it is proposed to delete the form of valuation register from The second provision relating to metrica­ section 24 and merely provide that a valua­ tion applies to building by-laws made by local tion register be kept as prescribed. Details authorities and building ordinances made by of requirements can then be prescribed by the Brisbane City Council. The Bill provides regulation made by the Governor in Council that a local authority, including the Brisbane on the recommendation of the Auditor­ City Council, will have power to process General, who has indicated his agreement building applications in metric terms, though with the proposed amendment. not strictly in accordance with present by-law or ordinance requirements, a tolerance of The Bill provides for the removal of the 5 per cent being allowed. This provision is power for local authorities to rate electricity most desirable in view of the building indus­ lines and gas mains on roads. The present try becoming metricated as from I January power to rate these lines and mains is of 1974. I might mention that a special com­ only very marginal benefit to the local mittee is working on the formulation of authority and involves considerable. cost .to uniform building regulations in metric terms the authorities levying such rates m mam­ for Queensland. Such regulations are being taining registers of mileage and sizes ..of adapted from an Australian model uniform lines and mains on roadways. The authontJes building code, which was prepared after con­ providing and maintaining such ~i~<:s and siderable effort by an interstate committee. mains already have the responsibility of The States of South Australia and New repairing any road surfaces damaged by t~~m, South Wales have recently gazetted new and in fact a number of local authonties, uniform building regulations based on the with the approval of the Governor in Coun­ model code, and other States are in the cil have entered into agreements with electric process of adopting the code to suit their authorities, granting them exemption . from requirements. the payment of rates of the type mentwned. The Bill also provides for a minimum ceiling A number of other local authorities have height of 2400 millimetres for habitable refrained from levying rates on electricity rooms and 2100 millimetres for bathrooms, lines or gas mains. etc., to fit in with new metric sizes for The State Electricity Commission supports "'all sheeting. These measurements will apply, the removal of such rating, with the acknow­ notwithstanding that the by-laws or ordin­ ledgement, in turn, that regional electricity ances prescribe different measurements. boards will pay general rates on all land Honourable members will appreciate that owned or held by them. This will more it would be impossible for all local authority than compensate local authorities for any building by-laws and ordinances to be loss of revenue they might sustain by reason amended in metric terms by 1 January 1974, of the amendment. and that these transitional provisions are Another amendment proposed arises from essential. They are strongly supported by a request from the Local Goyernment ~ssoci­ local. authoritie~, the building industry, the ation of Queensland, drawmg attentiOn to Metnc ConversiOn Board and manufacturers a refusal by a solicitor to notify a local of building materials, and will facilitate authority of a change of ownership of land building construction after the building occasioned by transmission by death. The industry becomes metricated. They should refusal was based on the ground that the also result in a saving in building costs. law only requires a local authority .to J;le The Bill includes a provision designed par­ notified when land is sold. InformatiOn m ticularly to assist western areas, whereby a regard to all changes of ownership is neces­ local authority may financially assist an sary so that the local authority's rate book electr!c. aut?o~ity towards the cost of installing can be kept up to date. It is propose~ . to electncity m Its area. Some western electric put the matter beyond doubt by reqmnng authorities are at present restricted in the 2346 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

carrying out of capital works because of appeal to the Local Government Court if the $400,000 Loan Council limit, and the he thinks he is being required to do unneces­ use by a local authority in the board's area sary work. of this power could assist in earlier con­ struction of electricity lines in some cases. Mr. Burns: What do you mean by I stress that the exercise of the power is "major"? completely discretionary for the local auth­ Mr. McKECHNIE: That rests with the ority and imposes no obligation on it. discretion of the local authority. It is the Mr. Tomkins: That is a very good pro­ body who would be concerned for the vision. interest of the area and the finance involved if a developer was allowed to carry out a Mr. McKECHNIE: I thank the honourable project that may have a detrimental effect member for his commendation. I appreciate on the area. The council would be con­ that, in the western areas, around and cerned if local government money was beyond the honourable member's electorate, required to fix water and sewerage installa­ it could serve a very useful purpose for tions that were rendered defective as a result many people. of an impact study not being carried out. The Bill incorporates into the Local Gov­ In such case, the local authority may be ernment Act the subject of environmental required to submit a copy of the report and impact in relation to developmental proposals statement already supplied by the applicant, requiring local authority consideration. This or to require the applicant to supply the is in line with Government policy that report and statement if he has not already environmental impact studies be carried out done so. for all works of major importance, and on Local authorities have already been advised other projects that may warrant such studies, by the Department of Local Government and recognises the fact that many projects to adopt policy statements of the type men­ are subject to the approval of the local tioned, and a specimen policy statement has authority at some stage in their development. been supplied to them for suggested imple­ The Bill requires a local authority to mentation. However, it is considered that have due regard to the effect on the environ­ the matter would be more appropriately dealt ment of any proposal in respect of which with by an amendment of the Act giving the an application is received for its approval, local authority specific powers and duties, consent, permission or decision in accordance and clarifying its right to consider environ­ with the Local Government Act or any other mental impact and to require studies to be Act. The Bill also authorises the local undertaken. The provision is made applic­ authority by resolution from time to time able to the City of Brisbane by definition. to adopt a policy statement prescribing the The proposal has been discussed with the types of proposals in respect of which the Local Government Association executive, applicant will be required to submit an which raises no objection thereto, and it environmental impact study report and state­ also meets with the approval of the Environ­ ment of impact, and also prescribing the mental Control Council. A right of appeal parameters for such studies and statements. to the Local Government Court will lie where a local authority refuses a town plan­ Mr. Burns: Does that apply to the Bris­ ning application on environmental grounds. bane City Council, too? A further proposed amendment included Mr. McKECHNJE: Yes. Copies of such in the Bill extends the period of time within policy statement so adopted will be open which a local authority must consider applica­ to inspection at the council's office and avail­ tions for site approval under a town planning able for purchase. scheme. The Bill extends the prescribed A reserve power is given to the Minister period from 40 days to 50 days. This to require submission to him by a local follows an amendment of the Act during the authority of an environmental impact study previous session, which extended the adver­ report and statement of impact in any tising period for such applications from seven case where the local authority must in turn days to 14 days. This extension had the seek the approval of the Minister or the effect of reducing the time available to the Governor in Council to a particular proposal local authority to consider such applications -for example, in the case of a major rezon­ and objections received thereto. A number ing under a town planning scheme. of requests for extensions of time in individual cases have been made to the Mr. Hughes: If a local authority knows Minister since the advertising period was that an area is not involved in an impact extended. We feel that, in view of the exten­ study, should one necessarily be undertaken? sion of the advertising period, an extension Secondly, is it required regardless of the of the period for making a decision is war­ area to be subdivided? ranted. The Bill provides accordingly. Mr. McKECHNJE: The local authority I have dealt with many warranted cases has the option of deciding whether it shall seeking extension, but now that extra time call for one. I will explain later that the has been granted I feel that the Minister developer of a major project-! stress the should not readily grant any further word "major"-will have an opportunity to extensions. Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2347

Another amendment included in the Bill "(b) Whether, in accordance with a relates to the recent High Court decision in by-law made by the local authority, the the Mt. Gravatt Showgrounds case, which applicant should be required to supply has opened the way to further town planning electricity to the allotments by the under­ appeals on the technical ground of whether grounding of such supply." the public notices of an application for site These are discretionary powers for the local approval as advertised in a newspaper and authority to exercise in the particular circum­ posted on the land contained adequate stances of each case. "particulars of the application", as required by the Act. In the case mentioned, the High Item (a) should assist local authorities to Court decided that the public notice of the ensure that premature development in particular application did not adequately advance of availability of water, sewerage, describe the use proposed to be made of the electricity, and other services, does not occur. subject land, and the decision of the Brisbane Item (b) will enable a local authority, after City Council to grant site approval for such undertaking the procedure of making a by-law, use was set aside. seeking objections, and obtaining the approval of the Governor in Council thereto, to require To clarify the requirements of the Act, we the undergrounding of the electricity supply propose to amend the law to prescribe that in circumstances where such action is con­ certain specified details of the application sidered to be warranted. The Act confines must appear in the public notices and that the such considerations to areas where, in the application will be open to inspection at the local authority's opinion, the land the subject office of the local authority. The amend­ of the application is being used, or wil'l, if ment will not only improve and clarify the the subdivision is effected, be used, for format of these notices, but will also make residential, commercial or industrial purposes. all details of the application available for All the provisions mentioned to this point inspection. It is considered that potential are proposed amendments of the Local Gov­ objectors to an application for site approval ernment Act. In some instances, as I have will be afforded greater rights by the amend­ mentioned, the amendments will have applica­ ment because, in addition to the information tion to the Brisbane City Council. All of shown in the public notices of an application, these provisions have been discussed with the the application itself will be available for executive of the Local Government Associa­ inspection at the office of the local authority. tion, of which the Right Honourable the I stress that the information to be made Lord Mayor is a member, and the executive available will be detailed, so that an objec­ supports the proposals. tor should not be able to say that he was The Bill also incorporates a number of denied any information that would give him amendments of the City of Brisbane Town a clear indication of the use to which the site Planning Act, and I will now give honour­ was to be put. able members a resume of these amendments. The first amendment relates to the method of Mr. Hughes: Regardless of the zoning of giving public notice of town planning applica­ the land? tions, and is similar to the amendment of the corresponding provision of the Local Mr. McKECHNIE: Yes. It is quite a clear Government Act to which I have already provision. The applicant must specify the referred. As already mentioned, this amend­ dimensions of area covered by the building, ment is considered to be necessary following the length of road frontage, the number of the recent High Court decision in the Mount access points, the number of storeys, and the Gravatt Showgrounds case. proposed use. Honourable members will recall that the application concerning the The City of Brisbane Town Planning Act Mt. Gravatt site showed that the purpose presently provides that, where a person applies was the erection of a shop. Most people to the Brisbane City Council for a town assuming it could have been a small, one­ planning approval in respect of the use of storey store, whereas in effect it was a an allotment of land, he has to give notice shopping complex. This is to overcome that of the application to adjoining landowners. problem. The law is not specific as to the information to be shown in such notice, and the Bill Mr. Harvey: That would include rezoning provides. that the notice has to contain similar or site approval? particulars as are set out in the public notice of the application advertised in a newspaper Mr. McKECHNIE: All town planning and exhibited on the subject land. The applications. amendment should remove any doubt as to The Bill amends the provisions of the the information to be given to adjoining land­ Act dealing with the subdivision of land owners in circumstances of this nature. by adding to the list of matters to be con­ The Bill also clarifies the period within sidered by a local authority when dealing which an appellant must notify the applicant with a subdivision application. The additional of lodgement of the appeal and of his right matters are-- to become a respondent to the appeal. The "(a) The availability of essential services, Bill also allows the Local Government Court including electricity, to serve the allotments to allow an extended time for such notifica­ into which the land is to be subdivided; and tion. The proposed amendment should be of 2348 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

benefit to all parties who are involved in The changes in nomenclature from town town planning appeals, and it is supported to shire and vice versa, although of less by the court. importance, obviously are necessary, espec­ ially in the case of the newly declared town Under present arrangements the Brisbane of Torres that the Minister mentioned to City Council requires an app{icant to carry the Committee. Of course, honourable mem­ ·~ut the advertising procedure of the Act bers on this side of the Chamber cannot m respect of his application at his own help relating that to recent developments expense, and requires him to furnish a concerning the Australian Labor Govern­ statutory declaration that he has carried out ment's proposals for Torres Strait, and no the provisions of the Act in full. The law doubt we will find out sooner or later pres~ntly provides that the costs of advertising how the two actions are linked. apphcatwns are to be borne by the applicant. Since the present procedure provides for the I was pleased, and I am sure that the :applicant himself to carry out the advertising members of my Committee and other hon­ !Procedure, this provision is to be amended ourable members also will be pleased, that to provide that the costs of advertising will the right of appeal now being extended, in only be payable by the applicant to the certain circumstances, to all local auth­ council where the council itself carries out orities-shire councils and town councils­ the advertising procedure. The right of the will have the same retrospectivity as that council to require the applicant to submit a provided under the amendment to the City statutory declaration in relation to his applica­ of Brisbane Act. When that Bill was going tion is also clarified. through the Chamber, I mentioned that I knew of at least two cases in my own I consider that the various amendments electorate in which I thought there were contained in the Bill will facilitate the work valid grounds for appeal, and that I thought of local government in this State, and I one in particular would be upheld. As one commend the Bill to the Committee. who has knowledge of that case, I am very pleased that the person, who I believed Mr. BALDWIN (Redlands) (5.10 p.m.): was wronged, will now have a right of I have no hesitation in saying that the appeal. Minister has presented to the Committee quite an array of proposed amendments to No doubt some of the other matters raised the Local Government Act and the City of by the Minister will be dealt with by other Brisbane Town Planning Act. I am sure honourable members on this side. I will not that honourable members will bear with me have time to deal with them all. while I go through the notes that I scribbled As to the matter of insurance cover for hastily while the Minister was fairly quickly salaried officers of local authorities when outlining these important proposals. I regret attending conferences, etc., as delegates, or that the Minister, when he has such a barrage otherwise on approved local authority busi­ of amendments to put forward, does not follow ness, the Minrister himself said that the the example of some of his colleagues proposal would rectify an apparent omission. and make a copy of his introductory speech I am sure all honourable members welcome available to the Opposition, especially when the extension of protection to these the amendments are so far-reaching and employees. important and not necessarily contentious, as they are in this instance, so that we Similarly, there was no doubt an omission have a fair chance of looking at them. when the legislation was enacted to transfer the unpopular task of valuing land from When other amendments were before this the shires to the State. Perhaps for some Assembly earlier in the session, the Opposi­ very good reason the provision covening tion intimated that it would welcome pro­ shire valuation registers was unaltered. Fmm posals to make them common to a number my knowledge of these registers and the of Acts. Honourable members on this side keeping of them at shire level, I should of the Chamber made it quite clear on the think that this, too, will be a welcome amendment of the City of Brisbane Act amendment. We will have to wait until we relative to appeals that they wished to see the Bill to read the det~ils of what is see an extension of the right of appeal, proposed, and we will consider this matter along the lines that they then had in mind, to further before the second-reading stage. other local authorities. It is very pleasing to see that the Minister is now taking some It is interesting to nDte that many shires steps in that direction. Of course, we will have already acted beyond the Local Gov­ not know all the details, Mr. Hewitt, until ernment Act provisions in rating power lines, we see the printed Bill; until we do, we gas pipes, etc., and have entered into agree­ shall have to accept what the Minister has ments with the companies and semi­ said to the Committee today. government authorities concerned. From what the Minister said, I should imagine The proposal relative to the extension of that what is proposed will save quite a lot time made necessary by the increased advert­ of paperwork for the shires. It should bring ising time provided for in earlier amendments about uniform construction and good feeling is quite logical and should be welcomed by between the local authoritJies and the com­ all concerned. panies and semi-government bodies. Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2349

I was surprised at the Minister's advice to As they did with conversion to decimal the Committee about the delay by solicitors in currency, the general public will suffer a notifying local authorities about the transfer psychological impact in converting, say, 7 ft of land on the death of the previous owner. 6 ins. to 2,400 milimetres. They will per­ I have made representations in such cases. haps fondly imagine that they are living When I was a new member and inexperi­ v.ithin high castle walls. Again it is to be enced in the ways of solicitors, l frequently hoped that they have the means of checking made the embarrassing error of blaming, these measurements with builders and others firstly, the Titles Office, secondly the Public doing the work. Indeed, it is to be hoped Curator, and last of all the solicitor con­ they will be given the means and knowledge cerned. I am sure that many honourable to do their own checking, because the task members who came into Parliament at that will obviously be far beyond what a Gov­ time made the same mistake, and that they, ernment department could provide unless it too, have long Stince reversed the direction became a gigantic bureaucratic colossus. of their blame. Probably this will be com­ We all hopefully assume that there will mented upon in more detail by honourable be a saving in building costs as a result members on both sides, because this is a of conversion to metric measurement and very important matter affecting the welfare consequent uniformity, and that the saving of legatees. What is proposed will have an will be reflected in prices to the consumer. effect upon the paperwork of local authorities. I am sure this is something we are all thinking of. Everybody expected amendments to take into account metric conversion. Even though I wish to comment now on the financing of the proposed capital works for power they were a foregone conclus~on, they are generation and distribution. I notice that nonetheless important amendments because the emphasis is placed on the West. I of the ramifications of conversion to the hope that this is only the result of the metric system. Building specifications in association between that part of the State particular will be affected. Even though and the Minister as well as those honour­ the proposal is transitional, as the Minister able members who, by interjection, expressed indicated, the points of application are so their approval. multifarious that I hope the tolerance of five per cent will not always be on the wrong I could bring to the Committee's attention side of the ledger for the consumer. The dozens of cases of hardship suffered by things affected are so numerous that such persons who have bought land around the a bias of tolerances could result over all in periphery of the metropolitan area and are the addition of a gigantic figure to costs and still waiting for electricity reticulation. Even perhaps even after our cost-of-living index though in their instances the distances are by as much as .1 per cent. No doubt, the not great, the numbers make up the cost persons and authorities who will be respon­ involved. I am sure that all honourable sible for such a stupendous, complicated and members readily appreciate the contrast necessary task will be even-handed in their between the number of residents in those considerations. I am sure that is the wish areas and the number of people in certain of honourable members on both sides of western districts. the Chamber. As an illustration, I point out that in The achievement of uniform building laws, April or May of this year I visited Longreach as the Minister said, will be expedited to and read in a local newspaper that the sum some extent by conversion to metric measure­ of $680,000 would be spent on the extension ment. I believe that this is a good step, of electricity reticulation from Longreach and I am very pleased to see that there towards Winton to serve only 70-odd proper­ will be a transitional period. However we ties. I was able to visit only 11 of those pro­ will have to wait until we read the d~tails perties, and of that number nine had very of the Bill, and perhaps even longer, before efficient controlled alternator power genera­ we can assess the limitations in various tion systems. I sincerely hope that such aspects. At the moment, with the slight units will be offered at attractive prices to knowledge I have of the complications that persons in other areas of the State that will metric conversion could introduce under the not be connected to the electricity supply Local Government Act, the City of Brisbane for quite some time. Act and the numerous other Acts associated with them, I have no hesitation in saying Because my time is limited, I will be that the transitional period of two years leaving to other members on both sides of could perhaps be a little bit short in some the Chamber certain important remaining circumstances. Over all, it looks to be aspects of the Minister's introductory speech. quite a good average period. Again it However, before concluding I should like will depend upon which of the aspects of to comment on the proposed introduction conversion the responsible authorities com­ of legislation to allow, if not make it mence with. Knowing their good sense, mandatory for, local authorities to stipulate experience and knowledge I have no doubt that environmental impact studies will be that they will start with the more difficult carried out before certain projects can be ones. undertaken in their areas. 2350 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

When this vitally important matter was Mr. ALISON: The honourable member for referred to by the Minister, my mind flashed Port Curtis refers to Alderman Anderson, back to the conflict that arose at Raby Bay the mayor of Maryborough. I understand and is still unresolved. I do not think I can that he is the A.L.P. candidate for the be blamed for asking the Minister whether area at the next State election. As the such authority will be made retrospective honourable member seems to be interested and whether it will cover, for example, the in Maryborough, he should find out why vast Raby Bay project together with other local people call the mayor "Flasher" canalisation projects that are proposed or Anderson. even under way but not yet completed. Many of these projects were commenced in the face Mr. Hughes interjected. of strong opposition from local people as Mr. ALISON: I did not raise this matter. well as of proof of their ill-effects not only If on the natural environment but also on the the honourable member for Port Curtis quality of life of nearby residents. is really interested in what is happening in Maryborough he should get in touch with Mr. Hughes: Is it practical to make it the president of the A.L.P. branch and retrospective? A council could be called upon find out what has happened. to pay heavy compensation. Mr. Frawley: He is out of touch. Mr. BALDWIN: I do not think the hon­ Mr. ALISON: He is right out of touch. ourable member has either heard or fully understood my comments. I clearly implied To revert to what I was saying, local that I was talking about projects that had government in Queensland faces external not yet been finalised. However, I agree with problems concerning boundaries, which have him that we could not make it retrospective remained untouched for about 30 years. on an over-all basis, no matter how much Serious problems have arisen because many we might like to do so in the light of provincial cities have outgrown the existing subsequent experience that we have gained boundaries. and the decrepitation that has occurred in The Federal A.I.P. Government is temp­ many such projects with resultant high costs ting local governments with rather subtle to the State. Perhaps a classic example, bait, and is indicating that it wishes to have which we do not look at in the same light, local government representatives on the Com­ is the intrusion of the Pacific Ocean into monwealth Grants Commission. It is obvious the Gold Coast foreshores. that some local governments see the danger (Time expired.) of being subjugated by the Federal Govern­ ment, irrespective of which political party Mr. ALISON (Maryborough) (5.31 p.m.): is in power-while others, which do not, I congratulate the Minister on the job he seem to be grabbing at the bait offered by has done since attaining his portfolio. He the Federal Gov,ernment. However, the Fed­ does his job fearlessly, and he has handled eral Government is shifting its stance on very some rather tricky situations and involved many things, including its attitude to local legislation. I sincerely commend him on government. Almost daily we hear Ministers the way he has tackled his job. saying that they do not know what is hap­ The Minister gave us an outline of the pening in the matter of the association of proposed amendments, and as the honourable their departments with the Federal Govern­ member for R'edlands said, none of them ment. Perhaps this can be taken as clear are really controversial. Nevertheless, they evidence of what should be going on in are necessary in order that the State law Canberra, but is not. under which local government is adminis­ Local government, the third tier of govern­ tered may be updated. I commend the Minis­ ment, is in a state of flux. Let there be ter on introducing these amendments. When no mistake about the third tier of govern­ an Act is amended, many criticisms can ment being particularly important in a be levelled at sections that are not bein" federal system. It is grass-roots govern­ dealt with. On that basis, it would b~ ment-the level of government that handles very simple not to amend our laws at all. things close to the people. State Govern­ However, as I said, the Minister tackles ments must work in with local gov,ernment his job with courage, and criticism does not to make it more viable, and the Queens­ worry him. land Government does this. Local govern­ At present, local government in Australia ment is really the basis of the Australian is in turmoil. It knows not where it is Federation. The State Government does not going. In Queensland particularly, local seem to be able to help local government government has both internal and external financially much more than it does at pre­ problems. Internally it has to work under sent, so that it should receive an extra generally speaking, an outdated system of amount from the Commonwealth to provide an outdated system of raising finance and direct payments to local government on an generally speaking, an outdated syst~m of equitable basis-perhaps a percentage of administration under the Local Governm~nt general rates. That matter could be looked Act. into. Undoubtedly there is a fair basis on which Commonwealth money could be Mr. Hanson interjected. allocated to the various States and earmarked Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2351 for local government, with no strings child-care centre. What a stupid provision attached. Local government and the State concerning what, in many cases, are multi­ Government could then sit down and work purpose buildings. I understand that the out how to carve up the cake. definition of "permanent" is 20 years. It may An example of how stupid and irrelevant as well be 100 years for all the practical decisions on a local situation made thous­ use it is. ands of miles away can be is shown by I mention this to illustrate what govern­ what has emanated fairly recently from ment in grass-root matters would be like, Canberra regarding child-care centres. State and how it is developing in this nation, when regulations will come into effect from 1 we get this sort of rubbish emanating from July next year affecting what we know as Canberra. These are matters that Canberra child-care centres and kindergartens. Those should not be sticking its beak into at all. regulations will be administered humanely by local government which, I am sure, can Dealing now with another matter, if the grant an extension of time so that the Institute of Urban Studies, under the chair­ requirements set out in them can be manship of Professor Gates, cannot guar­ conformed to. antee that its report on local government within the Maryborough-Burrum district However, with the Federal A.L.P. Govern­ boundaries and also on local government ment, it is a different matter. National throughout Queensland will be ready and in matters, such as defence, the post office and the hands of the Government by early in civil aviation rightly belong to the realm February 1974, I call for an immediate of the national Government. There is no argument with that. But it is not the Federal investigation into local government bound­ Government's province to interfere in matters aries in and around each provincial city on the coast. This would be a compromise pertaining to child-care centres and tell move in an effort to speed things up, rather somebody in, say, Maryborough, Cairns or Perth how they should be run. than a general look at local government throughout the State. The obvious prob­ I understand that one child-care centre lems are to be found in the main pro­ in Maryborough will close down as such in vincial cities, particularly in their local the new year and reopen as a kindergarten, authority boundaries. From what I know simply because the Federal Government has of the provincial cities along the coast of laid down that a child-care centre must Queensland, they all have the same problem establish that there is a need for it. The -they have outgrown their boundaries. In Commonwealth Government defines "need" most cases, the local authority beyond the as- city boundaries cannot provide essential ser­ " Children from families where the family vices, and the result is a hotchpotch of local income is less than $69.50, children of government. one-parent families, children of migrants with less than three years' residence in Maryborough has this problem. There Australia", is very little area left for industrial, resid­ ential or business purposes within the city and so on. This might be all right in Can­ of Maryborough. Even the industrial estate berra, Sydney or Melbourne, but it is not is not in the city area; it is in the area of in Maryborough. I am sincerely confident the Burrum Shire. This means that there that it does not suit any other Queensland have to be all sorts of negotiations between area outside Brisbane. the Burrum Shire Council and the Mary­ Mr. Casey: There is no provision to borough City Council to provide the neces­ allow for the country mother who wants sary services to the industrial estate. This to leave her child in a child-care centre should not be necessary, and it would not while she receives medical attention or is be necessary if the boundaries of Mary­ doing something else when she is spending borough were extended. a day in town. Mr. Lane: Does the Maryborough City Mr. ALISON: The honourable member for Council get the advantage of rates from the Mackay is "spot on". This particular prob­ industrial estate? lem has been brought to my attention, too. The Commonwealth Government is not at Mr. ALISON: Certainly not. The general all interested in casual attendance at child­ rates are paid to the Burrum Shire Council. care centres. Perhaps this is not done in An investigation into the boundaries of Canberra. I do not know about that, nor provincial cities should be treated as a could I care less, but I do care what goes matter of great urgency. The Government on in Queensland and I know what goes on has a decentralisation policy. It is a good in Maryborough. one, and it is working through the Depart­ If the association that runs this child­ ment of Commercial and Industrial Develop­ care centre in Maryborough is to qualify ment and the decentralisation of Government for Commonwealth subsidy, it will have to departments. However, the strangulation of sign an agreement that the hall and grounds local government in provincial areas in will be used permanently for child care in which most of the growth is taking place future. In this case, it is a multi-purpose is acting against the decentralisation that the hall that is quite suitable for use by the Government is promoting. 2352 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

The Premier was in Maryborough last great pity that Mr. McAulay did not pro­ Monday evening and Tuesday morning. I ceed with his writ in the Supreme Court. had a lengthy discussion with him on this A lot of dirty linen would have been washed problem, and I know he is sympathetic to if he had. the cause of local authorities in the larger provincial centres. I seek his support in Mr. Baldwin: He wouldn't have been this matter in one way or the other--either game. let the report be obtained speedily from Mr. ALISON: Why didn't he? It would Professor Gates, particularly as it relates to be interesting to know how much Alder­ the Maryborough and Burrum areas, or let man Jones paid Mr. McAulay to buy him us institute our own commission to investigate provincial areas. off. Mr. McAulay issued a writ out of the The main problems are to be found in the Supreme Court. After a certain time, Alder­ provincial cities along the coast, where man J ones made him an offer. What that development is taking place. This is where offer was has not yet come to light. Cer­ solutions are required, mainly by changing tain large figures have been bandied about> local government boundaries to include in and no doubt it was a large figure. But the cities areas sufficiently large to provide that would not worry Alderman Jones. He industrial, residential and business land for is rather careless with other people's money. at least the next 20 years. Provincial cities and the developing areas around them should I have heard some people say-usually be within the boundaries of one local auth­ members of the A.L.P.-"Look at what Ald­ ority. This would stop the stupid bickering erman Jones has done for Brisbane!" As that now goes on in some provincial areas I have said before, if one cares to throw between the city council and the council the rule book out the window, as Alder­ of the shire beyond the city boundaries. If man Jones has done on many occasions-- there was only one local authority adminis­ Mr. Miller: And he is still doing it. tering the entire area, the thinking of alder­ men and councillors would be lifted to a Mr. ALISON: Yes, he is still doing it. higher level, and they would look at their If one does that, the administration of local area as a whole rather than see one little government becomes much easier. But if ant-hill here and another there. In this one sticks to the book of rules and a way, the orderly growth of provincial cities code of ethics-Alderman J ones would not would be assured. know the meaning of that word-it becomes more difficult. Maryborough has a population of 20,000, As I said, Alderman J ones made an offer which means that it is not really a large city. Relatively, however, it is a city of to Mr. McAulay, and no doubt Mr. McAulay some size in Queensland, which is the most had his reasons for accepting it. I reiterate decentralised State of Australia. It is absol­ that I believe it was a great pity he did, utely ridiculous that a city of this size because many things would have come to should have no land of any consequence light if Mr. McAulay's writ had been per­ within the city boundary for the provision mitted to run its course. However, it was of necessary facilities. This situation makes withdrawn and, as a result, this amendment a farce of the policy of decentralisation; in is now before us. fact, it works directly against it. While I am dealing with this amend­ ment, I point out that the majority of the I should now like to refer to the amend­ 131 local authorities in Queensland are ment that confers the right of appeal on administered by non-A.L.P. councils-in certain local government officers. The incid­ fact, in most instances no political parties ent that was responsible for the introduction are involved, which is a good thing for of this amendment must surely be one of local government-and a similar problem the greatest blots on the A.L.P. in Queens­ has never arisen. Alderman J ones certainly land~ in the last decade. It will be recalled, looks for loop-holes, and in this instance I should think, that Mr. McAulay was sacked he found one. I suppose we should thank from the Brisbane City Council without him for doing so, because sooner or later notice, and without having been given any a similar situation might arise, particularly reason. under an A.L.P.-dominated council. The Mr. Miller: We will never forget him. A.L.P. used to claim-! do not know whether it still does-that it looked after the work­ Mr. ALISON: We certainly will not. He ing man. That is now completely incor­ had no right of appeal at the time, and rect, and the sooner the working man realises Alderman J ones was not interested in hearing he is being exploit.ed by the unions and by him or in giving him what I might describe the A.L.P., the better. as a "gratuitous" appeal. I shall conclude on that note, and I look forward to the second reading of the Bill. Mr. Miller: Dictator Jones! Mr. HARVEY (Stafford) (5.48 p.m.): Local Mr. ALISON: That is correct. He had government is indeed very close to the his reasons for sacking Mr. McAulay, but people, and its activities affect the bread­ we have not yet heard them. It is a and-butter issues right from the back door Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2353 out. With all due respect to the honour­ is still better to have valuations determined able member who has just resumed his seat, by the Valuer-General's Department than I think that both the public and the Gov­ by the local authorities. ernment have become aware of the econo­ mic and social disadvantages of an exces­ The Minister referred to the power to sive concentration of population. Conges­ designate shires as towns and vice versa. I tion, overcrowding, lack of essential services, ask the Minister whether any alteration has excessive noise, air and water pollution, been made in the existing formula in regard urban social isolation and an increasing to population? crime rate are all more prevalent in built­ Mr. McKechnie: None whatever. up areas than in sparsely populated areas. In general, I believe that there is a dete­ Mr. HARVEY: Another point was made rioration in the quality of urban and sur­ about the right of appeal for those on a rounding environments because of pollution rate of pay equivalent to that of a male and pressure on our resources. clerical officer. I understand that it extends Mention was made a few moments ago to overseers and senior overseers. Candidly of what the Government of Queensland is I believe that the right of appeal should doing to encourage decentralisation. I point cover a wide area of employees. Once a out to the Committee that in the West­ person has gone to the expense of fighting Moreton region, which covers about 21,560 an appeal and has won his case, he should square kilometres, the population in 1954 have the right of reinstatement. The Minis­ was 719,000 and in 1971 it was 1,092,000. ter said that the matter could be settled on In 1954 there were 575,000 people in the the basis of four weeks pay for each year Brisbane area alone, and the population had of service. On the face of it, that may seem increased to 868,000 in 1971. So much reasonable, but there is more to it than for what the Government is doing to encour­ that. age decentralisation in this State! I know employees who joined the Brisbane I agree that there is a definite need for City Council soon after the formation of decentralisation. I think it is rather ridi­ Greater Brisbane in 1925. That employment culous to have over 1,000,000 people in has been their career. They know nothing this corner of the State, and, to be quite but local government work. If they were candid, I do not think we are doing as thrown on the scrap heap at the age of 55 much as we should for people in the Out­ or 60, there would be no avenue of employ­ back. We are not doing all we should to ment open to them. The same applies in decentralise and to use capital investment the State Public Service. There are many to develop the natural resources in various dedicated people in the Public Service who parts of the State, and that is something have grown up with the service; outside it we will have to face up to sooner or later. they would be misfits. Monetary compensa­ tion is not sufficient for an employee whose I was particularly pleased to hear the services are dispensed with. Minister say that the Bill will write into the Locul Government Act certain provisions of The Minister said that each local authority the City of Brisbane Act. At the present will keep its own valuation register. When time there are conflicting re~ulations. I am a local authority is dealing with its budget, pleased to see that the proposal will bring the rate notices must be tabled. The local some uniformity in local government ruuthority valuations should be tabled at the throughout the State. same time for the perusal of the aldermen. That is important, particularly in local Mention was made of the Valuer-General. authority areas containing a number of Land valuation should remain the resnonsi­ zones, because aldermen or councillors, as bility of the State Government. Year; ago the case may be, in dealing with the budget local authorities did their own valuing. In and determining what amount is to be appor­ those clays an unscrupulous shire chairman tioned to their zones, would be able to go or councillor could exert pressure on the to the table and ascertain the rate revenue local authority valuer to ensure that he from their areas and then decide whether received preferential treatment in the valuing their areas were receiving back a fair share of his land. of the cake. Mr. Gmm: The local authorities do not Mention was made of the transfer of want the responsibility back. ownership of property. Like many others in this Chamber who have served on local Mr. HARVEY: They would not want it authorities, I found that quite of.ten the back again. It would be a retrograde step local authority was blamed when rate notices to give it back to them. were sent to a former owner, but that Some deficiencies in the system are evident happened purely because the person engaged from some of the Valuer-General's valua­ to do the conveyancing had not bothered to tions. Because one person pays an exorbi­ notify the local authority. This happens tant price for a block of land in a certain frequently, and quite often the local authority area, everyone else in the area is penalised. is wrongly blamed for it, just as it is blamed While that is consistently denied, it does for many other things. I encountered many occur !lime and time again. Nevertheless, it cases of people receiving rate notices long 2354 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

after their land had been transferred. There­ of building being erected these days, I fore, I think it should be mandatory to believe it is very necessary to maintain these notify the local authority within a set time standards or even improve them. and, if the person handling the case does not The Minister also mentioned the $400,000 carry out the function he is paid to perform, limitation on loans in various local authority a penalty should be imposed upon him. areas. This has been a matter of concern for Mr. Hughes: Rates are not levied on the many years. The $400,000 limitation was person but on the land; therefore the question imposed many years ago when money values arises of damages for the people purchasing were completely different from those of or selling the land if some person wrong­ today. fully gets a rate notice. Mr. McKechnie: It rose from $300,000 to $400,000 about 12 months ago. Mr. HARVEY: That is right. Not only that, but in many cases 18 months have Mr. HARVEY: I was not aware of that. elapsed before people have received their On this aspect, all local authorities should rate notices. In many of those cases the receive the utmost consideration. rate notice was sent to the person who pre­ [Sitting suspended from 6 to 7.15 p.m.] viously owned the land. Of course, he ignored it, saying that it had nothing to do Mr. HARVEY: Before the dinner recess with him. The local authority is not advised the Minister had reminded me that the limit and, if the matter runs on for three years, on a local authority's loan allocation had the local authority is entitled to step in been increased from $300,000 to $400,000. and sell up the prope,rty. Consequently, all Although the rate revenue of the majority sorts of legal entanglements occur and prob­ of local authorities exceeds the sum required lems arise. for the servicing of their loan indebtedness and sinking fund contributions, I should like The Minister also mentioned the 5 per cent to see local authorities given financial assist­ tolerance in conversion to metric measure. ance in the servicing of their loans so that This is fair enough. I do not know whether all the revenue collected by way of rates it was intentional or otherwise, but the could be expended in a manner determined Minister mentioned it in regard to living­ by them. Of course, I know that this matter rooms and bathrooms. Since he has par­ is outside the jurisdiction of the Minister. ticularly mentioned those rooms, I should Nevertheless, if I occupied his portfolio I like to ask what the situation will be with would be doing all I could to assist local toilets and E.C.'s. I know there are certain authorities to meet their loan indebtedness so provisions in the water supply and sewerage that they could do as I have suggested. by-laws about 5 ft. by 3 ft., 6 ft. 6 ins., 2 sq. Reference has been made to impact on feet of fixed ventilation, and so forth, but, the environment. In looking at this matter, if the Minister is going to tie the rest of the we should examine not only new buildings building down to these measurements, I sug­ and new industries but also existing industries. gest that he make double provision by As they grow, so, too, do the problems created including this necessary section of the home by them tend to become magnified. This because, although this comes under the water applies to noise, pollution and the passage of supply and sewerage by"laws, these have not vehicles through residential areas that are been brought before the Committee. Until otherwise quiet and peaceful. the by-laws are changed, I suggest the The Minister has said that a local authority Minister should look at the aspects I have will be given the discretionary power of mentioned. requiring that an impact study be carried Mr. McKechnie: I mentioned 2,400 kilo­ out. This is a step in the right direction, metres because that is as close as one can but after an impact study has been carried get in round figures to 8 feet. out what additional power will a local authority be given to implement any findings Mr. Hughes: The by-laws are rather loose. made as a result of the study? The Minister also referred to applications Mr. HARVEY: They are rather loose, but lodged with local authorities under the town living areas are mentioned and a person planning legislation. I ask the Minister is not going to live in a toilet or an E.C. whether or not he indicated that the condi­ tions would be applied purely to applications Mr. McKechnie: This Bill will not alter for re-zoning or to both re-zoning and town those heights, except for the 5 per cent planning applications. tolerance. Mr. McKechnie: So far as local govern­ ment is concerned, it will apply to site Mr. HARVEY: Other factors affecting the approvals only. However, under the City standard of living are natural light and of Brisbane Town Planning Act it will apply ventilation. I think these things are very to all town planning applications. necessary, but I suggest that the Minister should not in any circumstances permit a 5 Mr. HARVEY: I thank the Minister. The per cent relaxation or undercutting in light Minister has also said that persons living and ventilation. Particularly with the types in the immediate vicinity of a site that is Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2355 the subject of such an application will be Mr. CASEY (Mackay) (7.23 p.m.): It is notified. The practice in Brisbane is to notify important to remember that local authorities such persons by registered letter. Do I take in Queensland are governed by an Act of it from the Minister's remarks that the same this Parliament. I questioned the Minister practice will be followed in all other local this morning about the State Government authority areas? being bypassed in financial allocations to local authorities. As a former member of Mr. McKechnie: In Brisbane they will be a local authority who knows full well the notified by registered letter. Outside Brisbane financial problems that local authorities face it will have no application. -many of them are self-inflicted-it is very Mr. HARVEY: I believe a registered letter disappointing to note how they are falling is necessary. over one another to get at Federal money, regardless of their place in the sphere of Mr. McKechnie: I assure the honourable government and the activities conducted by member that, in Brisbane, the law requires them. that notice be given either by personal delivery or by registered post. Many people in local authorities seem to think that the Federal Government will Mr. HARVEY: The Minister referred to provide them with easy money. I am not the size, type and location of signs that now referring only to the present Federal will have to be used. In dealing with the Government, because the same situation Mt. Gravatt showground, he spoke of the applied under the Gorton administration. The location, type and lack of information on point is made at every local government the sign that was used. These are vital conference in Queensland that local auth­ matters for the community generally. If orities should have access to Federal money, people are not directly involved, they usually or should have Federal money for this and do not take a personal interest until it is that. The Local Government Act provides too late. ample opportunity for local authorities to obtain sufficient funds to cater for their Mr. McKechnie: You will find that it is needs. Should there be insufficient money all set out in the Bill .and the details in that field to cover changing social con­ will be available in the council office for ditions within the community, local auth­ perusal by the public. orities should act in concert with the State Government in an approach to the centra! Mr. HARVEY: If a semi-noxious or Government to obtain additional financial noxious industry is to be established, the power. disposal of waste is a matter of concern. A noxious industry could be established in It is well to reflect that local authorities close proximity to a residential area. People in Queensland operate under a completely should be aware whether waste materials from different Act from that in existence in every such an industry are to be ponded, trans­ other State. Different State Governments ported through a residential area, or treated have given local authorities different spheres in some other way. I have been very con­ of government, with different opportunities cerned about these important matters for to control problems. Therefore, in no some time. two States are local authority responsibilities Mr. McKechnie: I think that may require exactly the same. In many cases in Queens­ an impact study. land, the local authorities that are endeav­ ouring to bypass the State Government in Mr. HARVEY: An industry may be located order to obtain finance to meet their needs in an area in which a local authority has are the same local authorities that have not constructed roads to carry 5,000 lb. wheel been prepared to stand up to the State loads, or "D" class roads with 6 inches of Government, for political or other reasons, metal to cater for private motor vehicles. to obtain the fair distribution of funds they As soon as an industry moves into such could get by using the powers available to an area, the local authority is faced with enormous costs in reconstructing roads to them under the Local Government Act. heavy-vehicle standard. The Minister indicated that the Bill will Advertising is necessary in the local news allow a change in definition from towns to media. However, not everyone reads public shires, or shires to towns, as the case may notices. The Minister told the Committee be. The Act provides three different cat­ that the relevant information would be avail­ egories-cities, towns and shires. It is a able at various local authority offices. good sign that there is a need to change Notification should be given in the public towns to cities, or cities to towns. There notices of the local authority concerned. should be a continual ability to change the definition of these bodies because it is an Mr. Houghton: Notices are put in stands admission by the Government that there is of prickly pear where people will not see a constantly changing pattern in the develop­ them. ment of local authority areas. Some are decreasing in size, scope and development, Mr. HARVEY: That is true. while others are increasing. Therefore, it (Time expired.) is necessary to have some flexibility. I am 2356 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill disappointed that, in this regard, the Min­ This will perhaps apply equally to the ister has not included in the Bill power to environmental impact studies suggested by establish a State tribunal to alter local the Minister. Whilst the position may be authority boundaries. straightforward in the Brisbane area, in other developing areas regional impact These proposals virtually result from the studies will be considered by regional coun­ annual exchange of views between the Min­ cils as well. This means that the opinion ister and the Local Government Association of a regional council might 1_10t necessarily of Queensland at the Queensland Local be that of the local authonty concerned. Government Conference, and the Minister Whilst one local authority in an area may giving effect to the decisions made at that be against the proposal of a developer and conference. This year, after many years of the environmental impact study shows that endeavour, there has been a breakthrough it is not in the best interests of that council, in that there has been support for the the majority of members on a regional establishment of a tribunal with power to council can decide that it is in the best alter local government boundaries. It is interests of the region as a whole, thus perhaps significant that this was the major overriding the decision of the local authority decision at the last conference that is not and reporting to that effect to the Govern­ included in the Bill. ment. Even though the Minister is making provision for appeal to the Local Govern­ I know that the Minister is personally ment Court, I can foresee problems with interested in this matter. I have had dis­ environmental impact studies in areas apart cussions with him concerning the problems from the metropolitan area. I ask the Min­ in Mackay, which are perhaps worse than ister to give very close consideration to that those in Maryborough, mainly because Mackay angle. is a fast-developing and growing area whereas, By virtue of environmental impact studies, at present, Maryborough is going backwards, a majority of councils could foist a decision which is unfortunate. Nevertheless, I hope onto another local authority, and there would the Minister will eventually establish this then be argument as to who was to pay tribunal. for the implementation of that decision. A parallel situation can be found in the rela­ Following a recommendation to the Gov­ tionship between the Beach Protection ernment, many regional electricity boards in Authority and local authorities in many Queensland are, in one fell swoop, about to areas. Whilst local authorities may realise disappear completely. There is to be a that there is an erosion problem in their restructuring under which, unfortunately, various areas, they are inclined to turn their people will not have direct access to regional backs on it and expect the regional council electricity boards through their local author­ to provide them not only with the necessary ity representatives. It is a strong condemna­ engineering advice and recommendations but tion of the Government if it implements all also with the finance required to implement the recommendations in the report on the the decisions that are made. Confusion will reorganisation of regional electricity boards. arise in the future over who is to pay to Mr. McKechnie: Local government will implement the recommendations of regional councils following environmental impact still be represented on-- study reports as a result of which a decision is foisted onto a local authority by others. Mr. CASEY: Local government will still be represented because the regional councils Mr. O'Donnell: It certainly will happen. will be represented, but they are entirely different from a council democratically Mr. CASEY: It certainly will, as the elected by the people in the area concerned. honourable member for Belyando says. The The regional councils will consist of one more that government is fragmented by the representative from each local authority con­ setting up of other organisations, the more cerned, together with Government nominees. difficult it becomes to get decisions from Of course, under the suggested reorganisation local authorities. Unfortunately, many of of electricity boards, there is no requirement them have a habit of stonewalling and set­ that the representatives on the new boards ting aside issues that may seem a little sball be local authority representatives. The unpopular in some sections of the com­ suggestion is that such a representative shall munity. We have all seen how quickly be a member of the regional council. The State Governments-and Federal Govern­ people will therefore lose direct access, ments, for that matter-backtrack in the through their shire or city councils, to their face of protests. Local authorities are even representatives on regional electricity boards. worse. Someone only has to raise his voice Here is another instance of government being in protest, and they race for cover, quick virtually handed to a body that is independ­ smart. In most instances they get under the ent of the people themselves. It is of great table and ring the Minister for Local Gov­ concern to me that the establishment of ernment and ask him to try to get them regional councils, and other bodies that have off the hook for the decision they have been set up in this State in recent years, made. I can see by the smile on the Min­ has meant the loss of contact between the ister's face that he has been involved in people and those who make the decisions. quite a number of such situations. Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2357

Mr. Hughes: Doesn't the council usually Again I mention an instance in my own prefer to pay the costs of rezoning rather than electorate. Recently a sporting body opened do a complete environmental study? a clubhouse in a residential area. The appli­ cation to the council merely said "for a Mr. CASEY: The honourable member for sporting body". Persons in the neighbour­ Kurilpa may not have been listening intently hood did not mind a hall being built for a earlier when I said that the points I am sporting body; in fact, they thought it was making relate to the decisions of regional a good idea to have a hall for young foot­ councils on environmental studies. Where ballers and other young people in the district. more than one council is involved a big prob­ They did not realise that it was a clubhouse, lem will arise, because the decision of a and since then, of course, they have been try­ regional council, made under the regional and ing to take action to have the noise reduced, .town planning Acts, will override the decisions and even to have the council's decision of an individual local authority. declared illegal. The problem arose because, I was very happy to hear 'the Minister in the first instance, they did not have announce an extension of time for applica­ proper access to all the details that the tions for -town planning. I have frequently applicant submitted. spoken on this matter and advocated that the 40-day period should be extended. If my The inclusion of this provision in tile Bill memory serves me correc>tly, when the last is a move towards more open government amending Bill was before us I mentioned in the local authority field. "Open govern­ that the very anomaly that the Minis-ter said ment" is a term that has been bandied round has been created by that amendment would quite a lot in recent years. All honourable arise, and I am pleased to see that he is now members know that at times both the State overcoming the problem. and Federal Governments are inclined to close things up; but things are never so However, there are other problems in this blatantly kept away from the public eye as field, and the honourable member for they are by local authorities. I have been Stafford referred to one relating to applica­ trying for years to get a local authority in tions and advertisements. I believe that my area to send me a copy of the minutes any advertisements for town planning, and of its meetings after decisions have been pa!'ticularly for rezoning, should include made. In that way I could keep myself common-property descriptions in addition to au fait with what is happening in the area. real-property descriptions. That is not always But the council llas point blank refused to done at present, and no local authori>ty is do that. I concede that I could go to the bound to do it. A Press advertisement by a town hall and go through the minute book local authority relative to a rezoning pro­ with the town clerk whenever I wanted to­ posal, for example, contains a lot of mumbo anyone in the community could do th8Jt-but jumbo. It has section numbers in Roman it is a most inconvenient way of obtaining numerals all over the place, and to most information. The provision that will force people it means virtually nothing. local authorities to make these details avail­ Mr. Harvey: A person could be living next able to anyone requiring them will be a big door and not be aware of it. help. Mr. CASEY: As the honourable member I urge tllat the Government give considera­ for Stafford says, a person could be living tion to pushing local authorities into imPle­ next door to the property concerned. He menting the new building code in Queensland. probably never even looks at .the property Those of us who have been connected with description on his rate notice because he is this matter know how urgently this is needed. so shocked by the amount of rates he has The introduction of the metric system will to pay. I think it is very necessary to create considerable problems in the building include the common description of property industry. There will be a lot of headaches in all advertisements relating to applications for local authorities over building sheeting. for town planning or rezoning. I know of one The new measurements for sheeting deter­ in my own area that has been dropped in the mined by manufacturers will not match up Minister's lap. exactly with the present standard sizes of Mr. McKechnie: I assure you that the Bill 7 ft. by 3 ft., 7 ft. by 4 ft., and so on. There does precisely whlllt you are recommending. will be big problems with repair work. Sheet­ ing in metric measurements will be either Mr. CASEY: I am very pleased to hear slightly smaller or slightly larger than the that, because such a provision is badly needed. present standard sizes. If, for example, some­ Another important feature of the Bill is one wants to replace a 7 ft. by 3 ft. sheet that councils will be forced to make avail­ of fibro, he will probably find that the able for inspection by interested people the nearest size he can get will be something complete details of applications. That is like 6 ft. 10 ins. by 2 ft. 9 ins. This is very desirable; in fact, I think ~t is one of a problem that local authorities will have the best provisions to have been included in to watch very carefully. the Local Government Act for a considerable time. (Time expired.) 2358 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

Mr. MILLER (Ithaca) (7.42 p.m.): The concerned. If the Bill does validate the Bill makes many necessary changes, including charges imposed by the Brisbane City a uniform building code, the right of appeal Council, I will vote against it. for local government officers, and environ­ mental impact studies. Mr. Burns: Will you cross the floor? Mr. MILLER: I will cross the floor. Hon­ I am particularly concerned about one ourable members opposite talk about price matter dealt with in the Minister's prepared control and rising prices. If they are "fair notes. It is my intention to refer to what dinkum", they will join with me in opposing he said and ask him to clarify it. In par­ this imposition of $11,880 for underground ticular I will be asking him how far the electricity. Brisbane City Council can go in using the powers that the Bill will give it. It will If this is what the City Council is going be recalled that last Tuesday I asked the to do to people who want to buy home Minister a question about the charge being units, I expect every member opposite to imposed by the Brisbane City Council on vote with me against it. If they are con­ certain builders when the blocks of land cerned about rising prices, they will do are being used for commercial or industrial that. Competition exists everywhere else purposes. It has been indicated by many in this area, but it does not apply to the builders that in respect of a corner block Brisbane City Council. It has no competi­ the charge for underground electricity con­ tion and, if it says it wants $11,000 per nection can be $11,880 or more. As there allotment, the person has to pay it or is to be a public meeting next Tuesday, I his application is not approved. wish to have the Minister clarify the situation Mr. McKechnie: Let me relieve your tonight so that those who attend the public mind. The matters to which you refer meeting will clearly understand just what the are not applicable to the City of Brisbane effect of the Bill will be. Act, but only to the Local Government Act. What the Brisbane City Council is trying Mr. MILLER: I want to read out what to impose on builders is downright dishonest. the Minister said because, as I understand It will result in much higher charges being it, it applies to the City of Brisbane as well. imposed on home units. We are encouraging senior citizens to move into units. I want Mr. Burns: What are you going to read? to know whether they are going to have Mr. MILLER: I will read from the Minis­ to contribute to the charge of $11,880. I ter's prepared notes. know of no subdivider or builder who is prepared to carry that charge imposed by Mr. McKechnie: The City of Brisbane the Brisbane City Council. The Brisbane makes ordinances relative to this type of City Council is already demanding certain matter. other charges, including $2,000 an allotment for roads and drainage; $370 for sewerage; Mr. MILLER: I want this matter clari­ $200 for water reticulation; $500, at present, fied. There is a public meeting on Tuesday and I want to know where I stand. Com­ for underground electricity; $200 for concrete mencing at page 23, the Minister's notes footpaths and vehicle crossings; $200 to head­ read- quarters for sewerage; and another $200 for water headworks, making a total of "The Bill amends the provisions of the $3,675. On top of these charges which the Act dealing with the subdivision of land Council is imposing on these builders and by adding to the list of matters to be subdividers, there is the cost of servicing considered by a local authority when deal­ this money, because at the present time, ing with a subdivision application. The unless a builder or subdivider agrees to additional matters are- the imposition placed on him by the Brisbane (a) The availability of essential ser­ City Council, the subdivisions can be held vices, including electricity, to serve the up for any length of time. allotments into which the land is to be subdivided; and Mr. Porter: For up to four years. (b) Whether, in accordance with a by-law made by the local authority, the Mr. MILLER: As the honourable mem­ applicant should be required to supply ber for Toowong says, they can be held electricity to the allotments by the under­ for up to four years. I know of some cases grounding of such supply. that have been held up for an indefinite period. "These are discretionary powers for the local government to exercise in the It was reported in the Press during the particular circumstances of each case. week that the public meeting I have men­ Item (a) should assist local authorities to tioned is being called. A number of applica­ ensure that premature development in tions for home units are being held up at advance of availability of water, sewerage, the moment. I want spelt out in quite electricity and other services, does not definite terms just what this measure means occur. (I am not opposed to that). Item to subdividers and builders of home units. (b) will enable a local authority, after I am wondering whether this Bill will undertaking the procedure of making a validate the very things about which I am by-law, seeking objections, and obtaining Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill 2359

the approval of the Governor in Council it. Unless people who subsequently lodge thereto, to require the undergrounding of applications are prepared to toe the line, the electricity supply in circumstances their applications, too, will be delayed. And where such action is considered to be it must not be forgotten that subdividers and warranted. The Act confines such con­ builders are borrowing money at high siderations to areas where, in the local interest rates, and any delay costs them authority's opinion, the land the subject money. of the application is being used or will, We are well aware of cases in which if the subdivision is effected, be used for builders or subdividers have won their residential, commercial or industrial pur­ appeals in the Local Government Court and, poses." in spite of that, other almost identical appli­ That word "residential" concerns me. I cations have been delayed deliberately by want to know whether people buying resid­ the Brisbane City Council. In a number of ential land will also have this imposition cases the Brisbane City Council has gone placed on them. The Minister's notes con­ as fa,r as the door of the court before tinue- saying to an appellant, "We give in. You "All the provisions mentioned to this win." Does anyone consider the cost up point are proposed amendments of the to that stage to the subdivider or the builder? Local Government Act." More importantly, has anybody thought of The Minister also said- the cost to the purchaser? After all, the costs do not come out of the pocket of the "In some cases, as I have mentioned, subdivider or the builder. Rather are they the amendments will have application to passed on to the purchaser. the Brisbane City Council." As I say, I want this particular aspect It is on that comment that I should like to clarified. I refer to the case of a small have some clarification. Unless it is cleared up tonight, at the second-reading stage I will developer at Wooloowin who is planning the development of four units on a corner block be calling for a division on the motion. I with a frontage of 170 feet. He is required am quite opposed to the imposition of to raise an additional $10,200 before plans charges. of this type. for the project can be approved. In other Mr. Burns: Are you opposed to it on words, his prans are being delayed until he principle or are you objecting only because is able to find an additional $10,200. And, it is the Brisbane City Council? as I have said, he is a small developer. Mr. MILLER: I am opposed to it as a There is no doubt that this type of thing matter of principle. goes on, so I am strongly opposed to any provision in this legislation that will in any Mr. Burns: Then you will vote against it? way validate the action of the Brisbane City Council in this regard. I believe that by Mr. MILLER: As I say, I am opposed to demanding this money the Brisbane City it not because it is the Brisbane City Council Council is acting illegally. but because no local authority should have the power to impose upon a subdivider costs I congratulate the Minister on his pro­ such as this. posal to introduce uniform building regula­ tions. Although I doubt whether they will Prior to the last Bnisbane City Council reduce building costs, they will certainly election, the Lord Mayor, Alderman Jones, enable building materials to be supplied said that his main concern was to reduce more easily than at present. the price of land to the home-builder. Before the Prime Minister was elected to Mr. AlisQn: Do you think he was "fair office on 2 December 1972, he claimed that dinkum"? within six months of the A.L.P. gaining office in Canberra it would introduce a Mr. MILLER: I would ask: does anyone uniform building code, which, in turn, would think he was "fair dinkum"? I have asked reduce the cost of construction of a home a question, and received an answer. He is by at least $600. able to charge $11,880 in relation to a block of land with a frontage of 66 feet. Is such Mr. Burns: So it will. an imposition going to reduce the cost of housing? Of course not. Mr. MILLER: I very much doubt it. Mr. Harvey: Under the site approval they My only point is that, aithough a uniform have the right of appeal to the Local Gov­ building code is being introduced in Queens­ ernment Court, because they have to supply land and has already been introduced in some electricity whether they want to or not. States, I have seen no reduction in the cost of building homes in those States where they Mr. MILLER: The honourable member have been introduced. Instead of reducing has made the valid point that there is a the cost of building homes by $600, the right of appeal to the Local Government A.L.P. Government has actually increased Court. But he would know more than any­ costs by 33! per cent. one else how applications are held up by the Brisbane City Council even after the A Government Member: Anyone build­ Local Government Court has found against ing a home today can tell you that. 2360 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

Mr. MILLER: That is true. who attend the public meeting a definite idea of where they stand in the matter of Mr. Wright: Where did you get your charges for underground electricity figures? reticulation. Mr. MILLER: The figures are readily Mr. McKechnie: So far as Brisbane is con­ available. I do not know whether this article cerned, that matter is not covered by this came from "The Courier-Mail" or "The Bill, but can be dealt with by the Brisbane Telegraph" and, unfortunately, it is not City Council by ordinance. dated. The honourable member is quite at liberty

Organization and Environmental Control Act the buck. You are not interested in acting was introduced, and we were told that the in this matter. You are running away from Government would act to protect the environ­ it. ment. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I again remind Mr. Hllghes: You want to impose "Big the honourable member that he is continually Brother" on local authorities. using the pronoun "you". The Chair has Mr. BURNS: I do not. You are doing no part of this. The Chair merely adjudicates ·exactly the other thing. You want "Big the sitting of this Committee. The honourable Brother" to dodge behind the local authority. member will please address the Chair. You haven't got the guts to stand up and Mr. BURNS: Whilst you are adjudicating stand by what you said in the 1971 Act. the sitting of the Committee, Mr. Lickiss, the You now want to place the responsibility Government is running away from this issue. on local government. You did it over the Let that be made quite clear. What you are cement works. saying here is that the council will accept The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable the responsibility. What about regional plan­ member will please address the Chair. ning? You nodded your head for regional planning and supported me when I spoke Mr. BURNS: Yes, Mr. Lickiss. about it in this Chamber. The Government did it with the cement Mr. Hughes interjected. works. It ran away from responsibility on the question of the cement works. On 7 June Mr. BURNS: Wait a moment before you the chairman of Queensland Cement & Lime open your mouth now, because you might Co. Ltd. was reported in the financial pages find your foot in it. Are we going to allow of the Press as saying, ··we are going to a council to approve a cement works on build a cement works at Parker Island, on the border of a city? Are we going to say, the Brisbane River. The site is being 'The council will make the decision", even ileveloped for us by the Department of though it might affect the environment of Harbours and Marine." The Government all the people in the nearby council area? must have approved it and decided to develop Are we going to allow the Redcliffe City the site at that particular stage. Cabinet Council to make a decision in respect of a must have said, "We will allow the cement site on the border between Redcliffe and works here," or it would not have proceeded Brisbane? This is what regional planning is to develop the site for the cement company. all about. You should be able to say, When the Government realised there would "It is in the interests of a whole region be a great storm of protest from those that these industries should be sited in a people who did not want a cement works particular spot." on the Brisbane River in that location, and A Government Member interjected. did not want sea breezes blowing dust all over the city destroying its environment, as Mr. BURNS: Never mind about "Mr. the company destroyed Darra for years, it Burns". I was lucky to get 20 minutes to suddenly found that section 27 (a) of the speak tonight. I was gagged about four Clean Air Act was no longer its much­ times previously, and I am not going to vaunted strong right arm to stop polluting give up any of my time. industries from commencing operations. Sir Gordon Chalk: Five minutes was your Suddenly the question of prior approval undertaking. of the site, buildings and any extensions was no longer of value. The Government dis­ Mr. BURNS: Well, I will take six minutes. covered how to pass the blame onto the That will be about the same sort of deal Brisbane City Council and said, "Before you that I generally get from you. The situation come to us for prior approval, you must tonight is that by passing the buck you are go to the council and get site approval." going to override all previous legislation. That is what you are doing here. You are running away from the question, which is The CHAIRMAN: Order! Will the hon­ whether this Government will act to protect ourable member please address the Chair. the environment. Is the Government going Mr. BURNS: I am sorry, Mr. Lickiss. to stand up and enforce the Clean Air Act, The members of the Government are going the Clean Waters Act and the environmental to duck away from their responsibilities under control legislation? You know, and Sir the 1971 Act, the 1963 Act, the 1965 Act Gordon Chalk is shaking his head-- and the 1959 environmental inquiry. I say that this is not in the best interests of the The CHAIRMAN: Order! people. Mr. BURNS: The Acting Premier is shak­ Some of the suggestions that the Minister ing his head as if to say, "No"-and I want has made have some value, but this legisla­ that recorded in "Hansard". Of course he tion will protect, rather than act against, does not want to enforce it. Of course he the polluters who destroy our environment. does not want to take any action in this If the Minister would like me to name them, regard, because this is what the Bill is all I will name one after the other all the .abOJ'lt. Put the blame on someone else. Pass dirty, foul, stinking, rotten industries in 2362 Local Government Act and [6 DECEMBER 1973] Another Act Amendment Bill

Lytton that are polluting the air and forcing we have given licences. I won't tell you people out of their homes. It is impossible how much they are allowed to discharge, for them to bring visitors home for a bar­ or what it is. I won't tell you the readings becue because the foul, rotten stink forces taken by my officers when they carry out them out of the yard. inspections." If, every time such an industry wants to The Government plays the old "ducks and extend, an environmental impact study has drakes" trick-local government will have to be made, and it has to be made known to publish statements that the Government to the public and debated before approval will not. Why the different attitude? On is granted, I will support you. But you another occasion it was said. "The Brisbane know you are not going to do that. The City Council will not be covered by this legis­ Treasurer said that the Department of Har­ lation on underground electricity, but the bours and Marine required an environmental other local authorities are." That was the impact study into the proposed cement mill Minister's defence. As soon as he found in accordance with the lease. He was one member on the Government side of reported to that effect in "The Courier­ the Chamber standing up to attack him, Mail", and he has never denied it. Now suddenly we heard him saying, "I can it is said that, in future, the Brisbane City assure you that it is not the Brisbane City Council must order one. If the Government Council we will allow to do this. All the intended to publish those environmental other local authorities can make these impact studies and allow the people to charges, but not the Brisbane City Council." inspect them and debate them, then I would support you. But if the Government is Let us face this issue squarely. Let us going to say-- not try to dodge it and put the blame on someone else. If some action is to be taken The CHAIRMAN: Order! The Chair is on the environment, let the Government face not looking for the honourable member's up to its responsibilities and act. support. Will he please address the Chair. Mr. AHERN (Landsborough): I move­ Mr. BURNS: I did, Mr. Lickiss. I just "That the question be now put." referred to "the Government" twice. I am not doing too badly. That is the best I Question put; and the Committee divided- have done in the last five minutes. AYES, 34 Mr. R. E. Moore: Can't you speak in Ahern Knox the third person? Alison Lee Armstrong Low Camm McKechnie Mr. BURNS: Well! Well! Well! In he Campbell Miller comes! I am told that empty vessels make Chalk Murray Cory Neal the most noise. I have also been told that Frawley Newbery hair will not grow where there is nothing Gunn Porter underneath. I have seen the honourable Herbert Rae member in operation in the 18 months I Hewitt, N. T. E. Small Hewitt, W. D. Sullivan have been here, and both statements have Hinze Tomkins been proven. I hope he stays here for Hodges Wharton a long time, as he is great value to the Hooper, K. W. Tellers: Houghton Labor Party. Hughes Moore, R. E. My view is that this is a buck-passing Kaus Row Act. It is another clear example of what NoEs, 28 the Government has done in a number of Baldwin J'ones, R. other Acts. As soon as a difficult question Blake Jordan arises, the Government does not want to Bousen Leese face up to it. This is a Government that Bromley Marginson Casey Moore, F. P. runs away from tough issues, and it has D'Arcy Newton run away again tonight. It says that collhcils Davis O'Donneli should produce suggested policy statements Hanlon Tucker on the environmental aspect, and that they Hanson Wallis-Smith Harvey Wood, B. should make them public. If that is fair Hooper, K. 1. Wright enough for local authorities, why is it not Houston Tellers: fair enough for the Government to do the Inch Jensen Burns same in the matter of water quality? Why Jones, N. F. Melloy won't the Minister tell us the names of all the polluters to whom he has given licences PAIRS: to pollute in this State? After bringing down Bird Yewdale the Clean Waters Act, why won't he tell Muller Dean Bjelke-Petersen Wood, P. us how much filth polluters are allowed to Sherrington discharge under Government permits? On Fletcher the one hand, he says that the local auth­ Resolved in the affirmative. orities are to produce statements and make them public, but on the other hand he says Motion (Mr. McKechnie) agreed to. in answer in this Chamber, "I won't tell you the names of the polluters to whom Honourable Members interjected. Townsville City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill 2363

The CHAIRMAN: Order! I call for be of inferior quality. Notwithstanding this, decorum in the Chamber. the council expects to make a reasonable profit on the venture. We feel that there is Mr. Burns: He wasn't game to answer. merit in the council's proposal to provide The CHAIRMAN: Order! I warn the cheaper land for the erection of private honourable member for Lytton under the dwelling houses, particularly by younger provisions of Standing Order 123A. people desirous of erecting their first homes. Resolution reported. The proposal, however, does not conform with the provisions of the Local Government FIRST READING Act regarding the sale of land by a local authority. Under the Act, any sale of the Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. type envisaged by the council would have McKechnie, read a first time. to be effected by public auction or tender, with the acceptance of the most advantageous TOWNSVILLE CITY COUNCIL (SALE OF offer being required. A sale price could LAND) BILL not be fixed in advance and purchasers deter­ mined by ballot as proposed. INITIATION IN COMMITTEE In view of the proposal's merit, we have (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, decided to introduce special legislation auth­ Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) orising the council to give effect to its pro­ posal concerning the sale of the land at Hon. H. A. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon­ Douglas, which is described in a schedule Minister for Local Government and to the Bill. Electricity) (8.20 p.m.): I move- "That a Bill be introduced relating to Mr. Casey: Why couldn't the Local Gov­ the sale of certain land by the Council of ernment Act itself be amended to allow all the City of Townsville." local authorities to participate in such a scheme? The purpose of the Bill is to empower the Townsville City Council to develop and sell Mr. McKECHNIE: It would be possible, for residential purposes certain land held but this is a pilot scheme that may, in by the council in the suburb of Douglas. time, be adapted in the manner suggested The land concerned is situated adjacent by the honourable member. to the James Cook University and the Towns­ Sales of other land held by the council ville Teachers' College. The council's pro­ will have to be effected in accordance with posal is that the land, which comprises the normal provisions of the Local Govern­ some 1,000 acres and was acquired by the ment Act. We view the Townsville proposal council many years ago at low cost, will as a pilot scheme and, in the light of be fully developed for residential purposes results, will consider extending the power and allotments sold at a fixed price to cover to other local authorities if they so request. the cost of the land, development costs, I will now give honourable members a interest, selling and legal costs, plus a margin brief summary of the provisions of the Bill. for risk, realisation and administration. The It provides that the Townsville City Council intention is that allotments will be sold may sell allotments of the scheduled land only to genuine home-builders who do not by private contract without complying with own their own homes or premises in which the provisions of the Local Government Act, they can reside and on terms and conditions which requiries a local authority to sell ensuring that homes are built on the allot­ either by public tender or by public auction. ments within a specified time. If there are more eligible applicants than one to buy a Every sale of land to be made by the particular allotment or more eligible appli­ council under the Bill shall be for the cants than there are allotments, the council purpose of the purchaser erecting thereon proposes to hold a public ballot to determine a single unit dwelling house for his own the purchaser of an allotment. occupation and enjoyment. The Committee will notice that I have stressed "single unit The council intends that a certain portion of the development will be made available dwelling." for medium density housing and for com­ Before the council calls for applications mercial purposes. Sales of allotments for to purchase any particular allotment, it will these purposes will not fall within the scope be required to submit its proposal concerning of the Bill and such sales will have to be the sale of that allotment for the approval conducted by tender or by public auction of the Governor in Council and, at that at current market land prices. stage, the council will be required to specify The council has already arranged finance the terms and conditions to which the sale for the development of the land with full will be subject. services such as water supply, sewerage, The Governor in Council, in approving underground electricity, etc. It expects to any proposed sale, may impose terms and be able to sell the land for single dwelling conditions to which such sale shall be sub­ house purposes at prices considerably less ject, and he may, on the application of the than are presently being paid for land in council, vary such terms and conditions and, Townsville which the council considers to if in his opinion the case requires it, may 2364 Townsville City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill also on application of the council, revoke months after the offence comes to the. his approval and grant a fresh approval in knowledge of the complainant, whichever its stead. period is the later to expire. Any agreement to sell entered into pur­ The Bill provides, fmally, that its provi­ suant to the Bill will be subject to the terms sions do not prejudice any powers already and conditions, if any, impo5ed by the available to the Townsville City Council Governor in Council and will be for such under the Local Government Act in selling consideration and on such terms and condi­ any of the subject lands. This means that tions, not inconsistent with those imposed the council, when selling part of the by the Governor in Council, as the council scheduled land for multiple-dwelling pur­ determines by resolution. poses or for commeroial purposes, will be An intending purchaser may be required subject to the normal provisions of the to furnish to the council such security as Local Government Act, that is, sale by the council thinks sufficient to ensure com­ tender or public auction. pliance with the terms and conditions of The proposals contained in the Bill were any agreement to sell. initiated by the Townsville City Council and are, I understand, supported by those The procedure for selling allotments in honourable members who represent parts of terms of the Bill will be initiated by the that city. council publishing in a newspaper published in the city of Townsville a notice calling for I therefore commend the motion to the applications to purchase a particular allot­ Committee. ment or allotments. Applications will be M1r. BALDWIN (Redlands) (8.29 p.m.): required to be in writing in a form accept­ For some time many honourable members able to the council and accompanied by have been aware that sooner or later a such information as the council requires. If proposal of this nature would come forward it appears that an applicant to purchase an in the form of legislation. Of course, some allotment is not an eligible applicant, his honourable members might also have the application will be rejected. details of what is involved in Townsville. Where, in relation to the proposed sale However, the pninciples that have been of a partioular allotment, there are more enunciated by the Minister are those of the eligible applicants than one to purchase that Australian Labor Party. For many years it allotment, or there are more eligible appli­ has proposed that local authorities should cants than there are allotments of land have the power to sell land directly to the available, or any other circumstance exists people for housing purposes. which makes it necessary or desirable to Mr. McKechnie: They did have that power, determine which applicant shall become the but this legislation is designed to give them purchaser of a particular allotment, the power to sell at a lower figure than would determination shall be made by lot amongst be received by tender or auction. the eligible applicants by a public ballot conducted on behalf of the council in such Mr. BALDWIN: The Minister could not manner as the council directs by resolution. have realised that I intended to make the same point. The Bill provides that it is an offence for any person to falsely represent himself to I listened attentively to the reasons given be an eligible applicant for the purchase of by the Minister for introducing a special an allotment of land when he is, in fact, Bill on this occasion, but I fail to see not an eligible applicant. The penalty for why the same purpose could not have been an offence against this provision is a fine served by an amendment to the Local Gov­ of $1,000 or imprisonment for 12 months, ernment Act that could be used generally or both. It is provided that it is a defence by local authorities who must have, or will to a charge of this nature that the defendant have, land available to be sold at their own did not know, and could not have ascertained price, or margin of profit, regardless of by the exercise of reasonable diligence, that the market price of land. I know that I he was not an eligible applicant. am not on my own in believing that. I must therefore look for, or guess at, the The Bill provides that, where the council reason why the Minister has tackled the is satisfied that a person with whom an problem in this way. agreement has been made to purchase an The Minister said that this was only a allotment is not an eligible applicant, the pilot scheme. I suppose we must infer that council may rescind the agreement, where­ if it works all right-we do not know what upon all money paid by the purchaser under that means-it is possible that a later amend­ the agreement is forfeited to the council. ment to the Local Government Act could This power is exercisable whether or not give the same general power to local authori­ the purchaser is prosecuted for an offence. ties that are in a position to act similarly. Prosecutions for an offence under the Bill As I say, we can only guess at what the are by way of summary proceeding under Minister might mean, but it is evident from the Justices Act, and the Bill provides that what he said that he tried to cover all a complaint for an offence may be latid at possibilities of wrongful applications and any time within one year after the com­ wrongful sale to protect generally the coun­ mencement of the offence or within six cil's property in the land. Townsville City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill 2365

The penalties that can be imposed as a much of those profits would find their way result of incorrect information from ineli­ back to the ratepayers as material ga[n, gible people are very high when compared such as the establishment of amenities. with penalities for similar offences in other Instead, from my knowledge of local gov­ fields. Anyone being aware of the possible ernment financing and the history of this penalties and fearing that he might have Government in the whole structure, I would made a mistake, could be deterred from think that such moneys would be used to applying without having recourse to legal reduce the debt of a local authority. This advice. If this means that an extra cost has to be done sooner or later. This is a could be imposed on applicants-we do not financial duty that must be faced not only know what the regulations will be, and too by local government but by all three sections many things could crop up-people may not of government. Incidentally, Mr. Hewitt, gain very much by buying land from the you might notice that I avoided the council in this way. hierarchical-status approach of honourable The Minister said that at any time the members opposite and their terminology, council can apply to alter the terms. If "tiers of government". To me, they are I understood him correctly, he also told us partners in government and are eo-planers that the Governor in Council, of his own in their general principles of action. volition, may alter by Order in Council We should be embracing other offers of the terms of application, purchase and con­ finan;_ing local government, such as the offer tract in general. This seems to be a very by the Australian Labor Government. If insecure, or highly fluid, approach. In the land is sold and a profit is made by the local light of the two matters I have referred to, if authority-in this case, the Townsviile City I were an applicant I should think very Council-such profit will accrue to the carefully about where I might finish up. council and be used to provide extra material I am not crying stinking fish. As I said benefits for the people who, in common, at the outset, this proposal is in accord with own all the land in the sense that society Labor's policy. What I am challenging is owns the land in a local authority area. I, the over-cautiousness of the whole approach as one member, support the principle con­ to it. It caused me to study the two sections tained in the Bill. of the Local Government Act that already cover this matter. Section 30 sets out the Mr. TUCKER (Townsville West) (8.41 functions of local government, one of which p.m.): When the Minister was introducing is the provision and promotion of housing. the Bill this evening, he said that the Section 19 places a restriction on how far members from Townsville were in agreement a council can go in !its approaches to pro­ with it. I suppose that reference included viding houses on land, etc. This is evidently the crux of the matter. So far as I can see, me. section 19 of the Act needs amending. I Mr. McKechnie: I would assume so. would have preferred to go about it in that way rather than introduce special Mr. TUCKER: I also noticed in the Press legislation. that it was stated by the Mayor of Towns­ It is to be hoped that the profit will be ville that we were also in agreement with very high. and I have a feeLing that it will the proposal. I am in fact in agreement with be the margin of profit that will be the it but I have never been approached by the major force in the decision of the Minister, T~wnsville City Council or the Mayor in or the Government, on whether the venture a straightforward way to e.ither loo~ at. t~e is worth while and whether it should be scheme or be briefed on It. I thmk lt IS introduced generally-or perhaps even in a pity that the Mayor did not do that part-in other shires, towns, or cities. before issuing any statement. Nevertheless, If I were in Government and had got local I am in agreement with what the Bill pro­ government into its present parlous financial poses. position, I would welcome a scheme such This land was bought cheaply many years as this. The area involved is 1,000 acres ago and it is quite rightly the heritage of and, on the prices mentioned by the Minister the 'ratepayers of Townsville. As the Minis­ that the council is prepared to ask of appli­ ter has said the scheme is situated in the cants and knowing the percentages assessed new suburb 'of Douglas, near the university. by developers and architects, and legal Of course, there are other associated bu!ld­ expenses, on a very cursory estimate I ings there. Initially, about 200 home si~es would hazard a guess that the Townsville will be involved in a type of progressive City Council stands to make perhaps development. There will be a residential $2,000,000 to $3,000,000 on the deal. I area extending along the Ross River between hope it makes $4.000,000 or $5,000,000, and the Angus Smith Drive from Nathan Street that whatver profit it makes will be put to to the city boundary. I think it is right good use by the council as a whole. to mention at this stage that there will be Looking at the whole financial structure a strip of park land 3 chains wide, which of local government, it is quite possible, if will separate the home sites from the river this were put into operation in general and bank. I think the development has been local authorities made larger profits, that not very well designed. 2366 Townsville City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill

Ultimately, there will be 1,800 blocks in cities in Queensland. I cannot see any the low-density development, and they will reason why the scheme should fail. Was the support a population of approximately 6,000. Minister afraid to allow all local authorities The residential part will be some 403 acres to act as the Townsville City Council is in extent. acting? Is he against that procedure? The In the medium-density area there will be Minister says, "No", but it is something a population of about 1,000, and on 12 that we ask ourselves when in fact it could acres of land it is hoped to have 480 units. have been done in that way. All in all, when the whole scheme ultimately The Australian Labor Party has consis­ comes to fruition, it should support a pop­ tently urged the introduction of schemes ulation of approximately 7,000, and it will that will facilitate the availability of low­ involve 630 acres of land, or possibly a cost residential land to young people. From little more. the Federal sphere down, the A.L.P. has It is interesting to note that 700 blocks been advocating that over quite a long of residential land were sold in Townsville period. In this Chamber, both the Minister in 1972. Based on sales in the first six for Lands and Forestry and the Minister for months of 1973, it would appear that the Local Government and Electricity have been number of blocks of residential land to be pressed for some time to divulge State sold this year in the city of Townsville Government schemes for low-cost land. In will be about 1,000. The number of many questions and many speeches I have dwellings completed in 1972 was 390, and, asked what the Government is prepared to again basing the figure on the number of do to provide low-cost land for people who completions in the first six months of this wish to build homes. year, there should be 600 new homes com­ pleted in Townsville in 1973. Mr. Hughes: The Housing Commission does a pretty fair job now in that regard. I agree, as the Minister said, that the Townsville City Council was told by its Mr. TUCKER: I mentioned recently-! legal advisers that it had no authority under shall do so again-that some authorities in the Local Government Act to sell allotments Brisbane are now saying that the cost by the ballot system. It could, of course, of a house and land is about 50/50- have sold them in the manner prescribed by that if they both cost, say, $32,000, the the Local Government Act. Any other land alone costs about $15,000. It is no method of disposal would have been ultra good the honourable member shaking his vires the Act and the powers and authorities head, because even in ordinary areas in the of the council. That was good advice, and provincial cities a block of land now costs the Minister had to act on it; hence this enabling legislation that we are now debat­ about $12,000. I am prepared to argue ing-a special Bill empowering the Towns­ with anyone who says that it is fair and ville City Council to carry out this scheme. reasonable for young people to have to put I suppose that is what one might call it. a millstone of that size around their neck. That is why the Opposition has been asking I agree with the shadow Minister for what the State Government is prepared to Local Government (Mr. Baldwin) that it do to provide low-cost land. Naturally, the could have been done by an appropriate Australian Labor Party, and I personally, amendment to section 19 of the Local Gov­ will support a scheme that achieves such a ernment Act. I do not think there was any purpose. need to introduce a special Act empower­ ing the Townsville City Council to carry Before beginning to pat himself on the out the scheme. I have looked back through back, the Minister should realise that neither the Act and found that in about 1971 a he nor the Government can claim any new subsection-! think it was subsection credit for initiating the provision of low­ 4-was added to section 19, so I suggest cost land for young married couples or that it would have been possible to again couples desirous of building their first home. add something to that section. In fact, I should say that the scheme now being debated came as a result of an initia­ I concede that, as the Minister has said, tive taken by the Australian Labor Party in this is a pilot scheme, and he said that he the local authority election campaign in wanted an enabling Act. That can be viewed Townsville earlier this year. If the Minister in two ways. It might be claimed that it reads the policy outlined by the A.L.P. in is a pilot scheme and that similar power Townsville during that campaign, he will will be given to other local authorities if see that the scheme proposed by the incumb­ it is successful. On the other hand, it might ent council is merely a modification of the be said that if power is granted only to the scheme then put forward. Townsville City Council, no other local auth­ ority in Queensland will be able to carry out If it is not a modification of that scheme, such a scheme unless the Local Government I wonder whether it was motivated by the Act is altered. It makes one a little bit threat of the Australian Labor Party Federal suspicious when the Minister does not ~eek Government to acquire and develop land. to amend the Local Government Act, because If it is not a modification of the scheme if it is good for one city to be able to put forward at that time, I wonder whether do this, it is also good for the other those in authority were prodded into action Townsvi/le City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill 2367 by the thought that the Federal Government how the land was going to be valued or might be prepared to acquire and develop the authority that was going to decide what certain land in their area. value should be placed on each of the allot­ ments. Members of the Australian Labor Party examined a model of the Perth scheme. They Mr. McKechnie: It will be the Townsville concluded that it had considerable merit. I City Council itself. respectfully suggest to the Minister that he should closely scrutinise the Perth scheme Mr. TUCKER: I thank the Minister. Then before he goes very much further. It is a I suppose it is reasonable to say that the very good one. I understand that the Towns­ council is going to take the present market vine City Council scheme is modelled fairly value of surrounding land. Even at two­ closely on it. thirds or 70 per cent of that figure, it could not be classified as cheap land. If The Bill will provide for the subdivision land is selling in that area for about $10,000, ultimately of nearly 1,000 acres of land this land will still cost $7,000. Admittedly acquired by a previous council many years that will be some help. ago for £16,000. That was a very good I ask again: Is the $5,000,000 profit on buy for our city. Whoever was responsible the transaction to be credited to a special for buying that farm at that price showed fund to be used for similar developments great foresight. Instead of developing the in years to come or is it to be credited to land at cost, plus a reasonable working the revenue fund? I do not know whether margin, the Townsville City Council envisages the Minister has clearly stated what is to that it will ultimately make something like be done with the funds. I think it is neces­ $5,000,000 out of the deal. I am talking sary that we know this. Or is it to be used about the full development of something like for rate relief, because as I have already 1,000 acres of land. pointed out, rates rose by 20 per cent this A Government Member interjected. year? Is it to be used for rate rebates for pensioners? Townsville imposes one of Mr. TUCKER: That is what the Mayor, the highest rates in Queensland on pen­ Alderman Max Hooper, stated in the old sioners. Has any consideration been given Theatre Royal in Townsville in February to leaseholding the land in order to provide this year when he announced the scheme what we call really cheap land? as part of his party's policy. I am only If we are really wanting to provide cheap repeating what he said at that time. He sug­ land and put it in the hands of young ~ested that, when it was fully developed, people so that they will not be burdened 1t would return a profit of something like with a cash purchase, leaseholding is the $5,000,000 to the council. way to do it. A minimum reserve could be set, with rental of 5 per cent of that Already the Townsville City Council has price, and the purchaser could be decided provided for receipts and disbursements of by ballot. This would provide really cheap $400,000 in its 1973-74 Budget. It is known land for young home builders. as the A.C.D. It has a defeated Country Party candidate and some other equally con­ Mr. Hughes: Do you think the ratepayers servative members in its ranks. In anticipation of Townsville will agree to their council of this scheme, and in order to facilitate doing this at their expense? it, the council has already increased the rates in Townsville by 20.7 per cent. Appar­ Mr. TUCKER: I do not know. We will ently the council was able to get an assurance have to wait to see how it works out. And from the Minister that this legislation would I suppose we have to be prepared to take be passed. Accordingly it increased the rates some degree of risk. Nevertheless, I am because it had to find money for it. Th~ pointing out that the scheme involves certain rate increase is a heavy burden on the risks and certain heavy imposts on the people ratepayers of Townsville. of Townsville. This is not a matter of black or white. The people have to finance Several questions have to be answered. As this scheme, and, because of it, rates have the land is to be sold at 70 per cent of been increased. I am asking, therefore, where market value, how can it be said to be the money will go when the flowback comes. cheap land, particularly as the market value I think we should know. has already been over-inflated by demand factors? If necessary, I can bring evidence Getting back to the question of leasehold, to show that land prices have increased in I point out that young persons needing a Townsville in the last 12 months by as home would not have to put out a great much as 75 per cent. If the council sells deal of money. They would not have to the land at 70 per cent of the market value­ pay $10,000 for the land. This is one way probably it will not be sold for some time in which we could provide cheap land and, yet because a period of time will be taken instead of buying a piece of land at inflated up in development-it could not be classed value, they could use whatever cash they as cheap land. Does 70 per cent of the had in building a home. market value mean 70 per cent of the valua­ Another question arises. Will the tenancy tion placed on each allotment by the Valuer­ conditions allow bona fide home-seekers General? I did not hear the Minister mention priority over persons merely seeking cheap 2368 Townsviile City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill land on which to build before reselling the price of land receives the headlines in and moving from Townsville? Is it to be the Press. It is a topical subject in Queens­ an auction among those in need of a home? land as well as in the southern States. This The answer would appear to be "Yes", as could be attributed to the rising costs of the Minister has detailed some of these land and also to the inability o£ some matters. I believe that only genuine home­ people to establish themselves in their first seekers who do not own their own homes home. Of course, ther,e are those who are should be allowed to participate. I think setting themselves up in their third, fourth the Minister might have mentioned that. It or even fifth home, but I have little sym­ is one of the things I want to see in the pathy for this section. Bill. A purchaser must erect a home In this matter of the availability and price within three years or sell the land back to of land, we should isolate the problem that the council for the original price. I was confronts the community. This, I believe, told that those were some of the things that is contained in the supply-demand ratio of would be in the Bill. I hope they are. residential land. One of the things Gov­ What provision is made for the resale of ernments have to do if they are in any the land and house in three years' time, so way to alleviate this problem is to ensure that excessive profits will not be made from that the supply of land slightly exceeds the resale of houses? The Minister men­ demand so that the speculators will be taken tioned three years, but three years goes out of the market. If people have the fairly quickly. Is there some provision right of choice and can bypass a highly­ to ensure that a person does not build, wait priced block for one that is priced at a for three years and then sell the home at mme reasonable level, there will be noth­ an inflated price? Are there some safe­ ing to speculate on. Of course, there will guards in that regard? always be a variation in the price of land, I am happy to know that the land will lot by lot. It has ever been thus, and be developed as a complete neighbourhood. always will be thus. There will be shopping facilities and a tavern, As I say, we should look first at the which will occupy something like 15 acres. supply-demand ratio with a view to increas­ There will be a branch library, and some 170 ing the supply of land. Secondly, we should acres will be set aside for recreational pur­ isolate the problem of the inability of a poses. That is a very generous area of person to assemble his first home. Once parkland. As well, there will be a primary a person has assembled his first home he school situated on 20 acres. Of utmost has his foot on the bottom rung of the importance is the fact that all allotments ladder into the mark,et place. But until will be fully serviced and will have under­ he has his first home he is confronted ground electricity. with enormous difficulties. This is the area Finally, I support anything that can be in which Governments can help most. done to help ease the burden imposed on I was introduced to this present pro­ would-be home-owners. However, if this posal by the honourable member for Towns­ effort is not to be a continuing one, it vine, Dr. Scott-Young. He explained to me could turn out to be nothing more than an what the council wanted to do and strongly exercise in futility. Land developers only supported its actions. In approaching the need to wait until all the land is taken State Government, the honourable member up-I have mentioned that approximately for Townsville acted in both a fitting and 1,800 allotments are involved-and, at the a responsible manner, because, after all, present annual rate of consumption in Towns­ sovereignty in urban affairs lies with the ville of something like 1,000 allotments, this State Government, not with the Federal whole project could disappear within the Government. short period of two years. At the end of The honourable member for Townsville that time the land developers could sweep West went to great pains to outline what in, with the result that we would be in the Federal Government intends to do. But the position that faced us previously. I am sure he is embarrassed by what the I have no doubt that all this land will former Federal Leader of the Opposition­ be snapped up, because, as the Minister the present Prime Minister-said he would do has said, it will be offered at prices lower in his first term in Government. In his than those charged for surrounding blocks. It policy speech delivered in November 1972, appears, therefore, that when all this land Mr. Whitlam said- is sold, we will again be faced with high "In our first term of office a Federal land costs. I stress that point; neverthe­ Labor Government will concentrate its less, because I think this scheme will help own initiatives and endeavours on two some people, I support it. areas-Albury-Wodonga and Townsville." Mr. LICKISS (Mt. Coot-tha) (9.2 p.m.): should like to know at this juncture where I rise to support this measure. I was very these initiatives and endeavours are to be interested to hear the comments of the hon­ found in relation to Townsville-there simply ourable member for Redlands and the have not been any. Deputy Leader of the Opposition, who repre­ ln the same policy speech, Mr. Whitlam sents the electorate of Townsville West. I emphasised the need for close co-operation suppose it could be said that, these days, and consultation with local government. That Townsville City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill 2369

statement is more than passing strange when Local authorities are the creation of State we realise the intention of the strong advocacy Governments. Let us get away from all the by the Federal Government through its hullabaloo and baloney that Opposition mem­ Cities Commission. It is difficult to reconcile bers go on with. Under the Constitution, that statement with the intention of the Cities sovereignty in this country vests ,equally and Commission-a Federal Department-to separately in the Federal Government on establish development corporations which are the one hand and the State Governments to wrest control of planning and development from local authorities. So much for the on the other. To further the administration Federal Government's willingness to get of the States, the State Governments created together and work with local authorities. local authorities. Sovereignty is vested in What a joke! the State Government in relMion to them. The Federal Government is already To come to the point of this legislation, it bypassing local government in its open is clear that the State Government has the advocacy of establishing development cor­ responsibility to develop the State, and the porations to wrest control from local authori­ State Government has sovereignty in urban ties, and to take from them the role they affairs in this State. All that we require from should rightfully play and put such functions the Federal Government under the Constitu­ in an area where these corporations would tion, which makes it the collector of the not be responsible to grass-root local govern­ public purse, is an equitable disbursement of ments, such as that in Townsville, where money so that the State can get on with the there is obvious co-operation between the city job of State development-its rightful council and the State Government. That is sovereign role. This legislation typifies the fact the way these two arms of government in that the State Government and local govern­ the State, local government and State Gov­ ment are getting together in the development ernment, should work and do work-in of Queensland in spite of, and not because partnership. But, if the Federal Labor Gov­ of, the Federal Government. ernment has its way, control is to be given If we want to go further, so much for to corporations so that neither the State nor Federal election promises! Mr. Whitlam said the local authority has a say. The absolute that to assist in growth areas he would deal, say would lie in the corporations established within his prerogative, with matters such as by the central Government in Canberra, and telephones and communications, and that hence in that Government. That is the he would reduce costs. What happened to pattern proposed by the central Government. Townsville in the Federal Budget? The hon­ I have here an extract from the "Telegraph" ourable member for Townsville West, who of Tuesday, 4 December 1973, which refers supports the Federal Government, should to the recommendations of the Commission be screaming because he has been left out of Inquiry into Land Tenure. It reads- in the cold. No relief was given to Towns· ville in relation to communications, and that "The report says it is essential that the was an election promise. In fact, costs Corporations take over the power to grant increased. So much for the rubbish we hear development consents from the local from the other side of the Chamber. councils so the future development is free from political pressures or any imputation I want to make this point strongly. Land that vested interests are in a position to within Queensland, and particularly land receive favoured treatment." held by local authorities, is held under the realm of the State of Queensland, not of What did Mr. Uren say when that report was the Commonwealth. In this regard, up to introduced into the Federal House? He said the present, the State has had a responsibil­ "I will accept the report." So much for th~ ity to ensure, in keeping with its responsibil­ Commonwealth's attitude towards local gov­ ity when local authorities wish to dispose of ernment. It speaks with tongue in cheek. land, that they do so either by auction or When ,the honourable member for Townsville tender. But, because a certain restriction West said that the Commonwealth will do is placed on some of trhis land when this and that, my reply is that the Common­ developed, these will be special sales of land. wealth !s hell bent to centralise all sovereign This is not a sale in the open market-place power m Canberra, to do away with local any longer. authority, to regionalise and, where possible form corporations that are answerable onl~ It is reasonable to assume that this land for to the central Government. In this Federal residential purposes would attract a much Government scheme the States do not count, higher price if it were put to auction. and local government will count even less. The Government, in partnership with the This is the sorry situation that honourable Townsville City Council, is endeavouring to members opposite have to live with. How­ rationalise the sale of land in Townsville ever, it is the fact. Honourable members to increase the supply of land quite dram· opposite should be congratulating the Minister atically so that, in the supply-demand ratio on introducing this legislation. This is the situation, speculators will automatically be type of legislation that hammers home the cut out and this residential land will be validity of the Federal system which we on allocated in accordance with predetermined this side respect. ' conditions. 75 2370 Townsville City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill

Anybody who knows anything about the Ingham, Ayr, Home Hill, and Charters subdivision of land will be aware that an Towers. The whole area is therefore seen area of 1,000 acres of land would not be as ideal for this type of experiment. Between cut up into solely residential allotments. It 1966 and 1971 the work-force in the Towns­ would encompass a very large suburb, and ville area increased by 20.5 per cent, and, possibly more than one suburb. It would in the adjoining areas, by 18.5 per cent. provide not only single residential allot­ ments, but also residential "B", residential Mention has been made of the 1,000 acres "C", commercial, industrial, and light that was acquired some years ago and is industry land. It would include the alien­ now ready for development. It was asked ation of land for educational and other social what benefit the Townsville City Council purposes. This total subdivision will form would receive, and whether the expenditure an integral part of the city of Townsville. of money in this development had been approved. I am quite sure that not a The honourable member for Townsville great deal would be contributed to the coffers West gives faint praise to the proposal, and of the local authority by way of rates from then points out what his masters in Can­ this area of 1,000 acres as it stands now. berra would do. Canberra has done nothing, However, once it is developed to provide and intends to do nothing. All its attempts 1,800 allotments, it will add a great deal in urban affairs have been 99 per cent in annual recurring contributions to the political activity and, by mistake, 1 per cent general rate revenue of the local authority. substance in achievement. At this moment, Therefore, the local authority has much to the Federal Government has made no con­ gain. tribution of funds to assist in the develop­ ment of urban affairs in Queensland. It was also said that the best way to bring about a reduction in the price of land Opposition Members interjected. is to ensure that there is an adequate supply of land available. In areas adjacent to Bris­ Mr. LICKISS: It is all very well for bane, such as Mt. Crosby and Maleny, Opposition members to interject, but they people are buying land and allowing it to cannot give tangible facts. These are that, lie idle for years. Farmers are leaving the so far, Queensland has received not one red land, and townships are dying. I was in cent from their Federal colleagues. So much the Maleny area only a few weeks ago, and for their election promises. The Federal there I found that even the fine butter factory Labor Government is one-third of the way may have to close because there are not through its term of office and it has done sufficient dairy farms to support it. However, nothing but talk. If activity counts for any­ we are not speaking about that area; we thing, the Federal Government has demon­ are dealing with the Townsville region. strated a tremendous amount of activity­ ! will admit that-but jumping up and What the Bill proposes will not establish down on the one spot does not achieve a precedent until the outcome of this exer­ anything, particularly if the spot happens cise is known. That is indeed a very sensible to be Canberra. What really counts is line of approach. It will be necessary to achievement, which to date has been nil. exclude speculators who would buy up the I compliment the Minister on the intro­ land and subsequently re-sell it at an inflated duction of the legislation. This is a pilot price. A term of years is therefore provided. scheme, and it will succeed. As a result, I should like to know if those who go to we will obtain a fairly clear picture on how this area will be permitted to buy the land to assist other local authorities. on time payment. I know that in Brisbane, An Opposition Member: Who owns the if people do not have cash to pay for land land? they can pay for it in 12 equal quarterly instalments, plus interest at the current rate Mr. LICKISS: It is already owned by the applicable to the loan raising of the local Townsville City Council. It is a disposal authority. I do not think anything could of land presently held by that council. be more generous than that. As I say, I compliment the Minister on the introduction of the Bill. I think this Reference was also made to the actions matter has been handled in a very wise of the Commonwealth Government in the manner. I feel sure that when news of Townsville area. It is supporting the James this legislation gets back to Townsville, it Cook University; it is paying a subsidy on will be well received by the community. This the construction of the Ross River Dam; scheme will enhance that fine city of the and it also intends to establish an inter­ North. national airport at Townsville. The state­ ment by the previous speaker that the Com­ Mr. HARVEY (Stafford) (9.16 p.m.): I monwealth Government is not contributing support the comments of the Deputy Leader one cent to the development of the Towns­ of the Opposition and the shadow Minister ville area is shown to be incorrect by the for Local Government (Mr. Baldwin). In points that I have just made. The Federal envisaging a scheme such as the one under Government is in fact assisting the Townsville discussion, Townsville comes to mind as region. I understand that in the study of the most appropriate place for it, because the three regional areas in this State, the of its population growth, its location, and Townsville regional area has been given first the developments in the adjourning centres of priority and the West Moreton regional area Townsvil!e City Council [6 DECEMBER 1973] (Sale of Land) Bill 2371

second priority. Therefore, I do not agree The honourable member for Redlands with the comments of the honourable mem­ indicated that he thought the penalties ber who preceded me in the debate. provided are too high. I do not believe they are. After the honourable gentleman thinks I understand from the report of the the matter over, I am sure he will agree Co-ordinator-General that Townsville is in with me that all possible precautions should the process of being declared a development be taken to prevent speoulators getting area under the State and Regional Planning hold of this land, and that is precisely why and Development, Public Works Organiza­ the penalties have been designed in this tion and Environmental Control Act of way. In my opinion, we must do the best 1971, which could lead ultimately to a we can to assist the mayor of Townsville, regional co-ordination of all the councils in the area. Therefore, if comment is made Alderman Max Hooper, and the alder­ about the Australian Government standing men of the city to implement the over the Townsville City Council, I point scheme they have evolved in con­ out that the Co"ordinator-Generai's Depart­ junction with the State Government, ment is carrying out a similar exercise in as th~ honourable member for Mt. Coot-tha order to co-ordinate all the councils in the said. I am sure that the Bill will achieve Townsville area, particularly because of the its purpose. supply of drinking water, which I understand Mr. Casey: The council will also receive is causing some concern. The discharge of a tremendous amount tin rates from what effluent has been restricted because of a is now unrateable land. shortage of drinking water. Mr. McKECHNIE: It will, eventually. The Queensland Government is already At this stage I should like to raise the providing, through the Department of Com­ point that the honourable member for Towns­ mercial and Industrial Development, cheap ville West mentioned. He referred to a profit land and cheap building sites for !industrial development in various parts of the State. of $5,000,000. I am not aware of this. I do not condemn it for that; rather do I Mr. Tucker: I have the report. commend it. But if cheap land is being made available for decentralisation and develop­ Mr. McKECHNIE: I have not seen it. ment of industry, it should also be made I cannot see that there would be a profit available to those who are really suffering of that magnitude. Although the council will in our society at present-those who wish be selling the land, there will be no great to own their own homes. Undoubtedly profit in it. It might be said that about there is an inflationary spiral, and the ones $4,000 or $5,000 is a Jot of money to pay who feel it most are the youngsters who are for a block of land which, on the commercial preparing to build a home for themselves. market, would be worth $8,000 or $9,000. But the council has pointed out that its I commend the Government's support of various costs make up most of the amount this project, which will give the Townsville it is seeking from prospective landowners. City Council an opportunity to set a pattern It is very intensive development. which, if successful, will be used by local authorities in many other parts of the State. Mr. Tucker interjected. I have seen areas in which land has been cut up into 16-perch allotments and a local Mr. McKECHNIE: According to Alderman authority has had to acquire them, and Max Hooper, the development costs will ~ then redeslign and redevelop them. In the about $2,500 by the time kerbing, bitumen electorate of the honourable member for surfacing, water reticulation, sewerage, under­ Mt. Coot-tha, land in Dido, Fida and Gimba ground elect~icity and all the other amenit­ Streets, Mitchelton Heights, was cut up into ies are provided. It will be a very good set-up. 16-perch allotments. That subdivision The honourable member for Townsville proved to be completely unworkable and the West asked a Jot of questions about market land was acquired for redesign and redevelop­ values. I will give him a more detailed ment, and the community benefited as a reply at the second-reading stage. I could result. only give him estimates at the moment, and I want to do better than that. I commend the Minister on the approach he has made to this proposal. I should like to deal briefly with the matter of Commonwealth finance. This is Hon. H. A. McKECHNIE (Carnarvon­ not really relevant to this Bill. It is a Minister for Local Government and Elec­ State-Townsville matter that has been suc­ tricity) (9.24 p.m.), in reply: I appreciate cessfully concluded. I shall not deal with the contributions that have been made by the Commonwealth plan to provide money the h~nourable members for Redlands, other than to say that the State was quite Townsv1lle West, Mt. Coot-tha and Stafford. happy to go along with the scheme provided They have all approved the basic principle the Commonwealth bought the land at today's of the action to be taken under the Bill to values and paid for it today. We were very give reasonably priced home sites to young happy to go along with that, and I am people, in particular, and also to anybody sure the Treasurer would support me in that who does not own land in the Townsville statement. We would not freeze the land. area. That was our argument. That is what the 2372 Townsville City, &c., Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Veterinary Surgeons, &c., Bill

Commonwealth wanted us to do initially. VETERINARY SURGEONS ACT It has now come around more to our way AMENDMENT BILL of thinking. INITIATION IN CoMMITTEE I had the privilege of representing the (Mr. W. D. Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) Treasurer in Canberra about a fortnight ago in the discussions about the sum of Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ $3,100,000 that was to be made available Minister for Primary Industries) (9.32 p.m.): to four local authorities in Queensland for I move-- sewerage works. In reply to a question with­ "That a Bill be introduced to amend the out notice, I indicated that this was very dear Veterinary Surgeons Acts 1936 to 1964 in money, and I know that the Treasurer has certain particulars." made similar statements. rl am not enamoured The passage of the original Veterinary Sur­ of the Commonwealth's way of helping local geons Bill through this Parliament in 1936 authorities to reduce their rate burden. I was in recognition of the need to afford said on that occasion that, under the Com­ protection to both the qualified practitioners monwealth's terms, it would cost $117 per and the public. In the absenoe of a regis­ tenement to provide sewerage. Under the tration system for practising veterinary sur­ State arrangements, with all the benefits geons, the stockowner was, and indeed would that the State offers, it could be done for still be, at a serious disadvantage. $58. Of course, the system must be such as I always understood that grants represented to ensure the possession of satisfactory quali­ free money, but the Commonwealth Govern­ fications by persons before they are ment regards them as interest-bearing, repay­ authorised to practice veterinary surgery. able loans. Therefore, when local authorities And then, too, we must not forget the animals' interest in the matter. From the have to borrow at the bond rate, which is humane point of view, it is very important 8.5 per cent at present, and repay the whole that only persons with appropriate training amount over 30 or 40 years, it is not cheap and facilities be entrusted with the treat­ money. ment of sick and injured animals. In addi­ tion to having prescribed qualifications, regis­ Mr. Harvey: If the sewerage work was tered veterinary surgeons are required to done as a local authority project, would the observe standards of conduct and behaviour Government be giving the local authority befitting professional people. This require­ subsidy? ment affords further protection to the public.

Mr. McKECHNIE: The agreement in rela­ However, in recent years the present Act !ion to sewerage is that any new scheme that has been revealed as deficient in regulation­ Is approved by the Local Government Depart­ making power relating to professional con­ duct, and this is one of the matters the men~, and by the Treasury, will receive Bill seeks to correct. subsidy. In the final analysis, it is a matter for the Treasurer to decide. The other side of the coin is represented in the Bill by measures designed to eliminate I thank honourable members for their the illegal practice of veterinary surgery by various contributions. I will not comment unqualified persons. For quite some years to any great extent on the contribution of past the board has found it virtually impos­ the honourable member for Mt. Coot-tha. sible to prosecute successfully persons who, He covered the position very well. His while not registered as veterinary surgeons, remarks were particularly relevant to Com­ engage in the practice of veterinary sur­ J:?Onwealth finances, and what local authori­ gery. As a consequence, the board has drawn ties can expect. I am not very happy about a lot of criticism from within the veterinary the so-called grants that local authorities profession. were promised by the Commonwealth Gov­ ernment. I can. o~ly see dear money, which The Bill seeks to make less onerous the has to be repmd m toto, being made avail­ board's required task of confining practice able to assist them at the present time. to registered veterinary surgeons. All the States, the Northern Territory and the A.C.T. Once again, I commend the Bill to the have registration requirements for veterinary Committee. surgeons, and in no two are they the same. This has reacted seriously on veterinary sur­ Motion (Mr. McKechnie) agreed to. geons with overseas qualifications who wish to practise in Australia. While they have Resolution reported. been able to register in some States, with or without prior examination and a resid­ ential qualification, there has been little or FIRST READING no reciprocity by the several veterinary surgeons' boards. As a consequence, a Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Commonwealth Department of Immigration McKechine, read a first time. group known as the Committee on Overseas Veterinary Surgeons Act [6 DECEMBER 1973) Amendment Bill 2373

Professional Qualifications has been discus­ In a number of ways the Bill updates sing with these boards proposals for uniform the existing Act, which, except for amend­ requirements for registration throughout ments relating to the identity of the pre­ Australia. sident and frequency of meetings of the Board, has not been altered since first it At the present time there is no provision was commenced in March 1937. That should in the Queensland Act for the registration indicate to honourable members that it is of overseas veterinary surgeons by examina­ time the Act was amended. In the inter­ tion. Unless a person is the holder of a vening years the size and scope of the prescribed degree he cannot obtain registra­ veterinary profession have increased mark­ tion here. The Bill seeks to correct this edly. The evident changes have been in situation by authorising the Queensland keeping with a greatly increased and more board to conduct examinations. Graduates wide-ranging public demand for veterinary of a substantial number of overseas veter­ services. inary schools and colleges who would not I believe the Bill will do much to ensure otherwise be able to register here will have that, on the one hand, the veterinary pro­ the opportunity to do so after passing the fession in Queensland will be soundly based prescribed examination. and able to progress, and, on the other hand, that the public have available to them This is not to say the door will be flung a veterinary service conforming to high pro­ wide open to overseas people. Standards fessional standards. will be carefully preserved, and only gradu­ ates of approved schools will be given the I commend the motion to the Committee. opportunity of sitting for the examination. In the case of some schools, the board at Mr. BLAKE (Isis) (9.42 p.m.): Veterinary its discretion, will be able to dispense ~ith science is a very old, very honoured and the examination. In the case of other very skilled profession. The "Encyclopaedia schools, the examination will be mandatory. Britannica" tells us that the Greek veter­ inarians of the Roman armies during the A related provision is that in appropriate Byzantine period demonstrated a high level cases there will be a prescribed residential of proficiency, superior in some respects period, and during that period it will be to that of medical practitioners. It is fair allowable that the overseas graduate be to say that, during that period at least, in employed in an existing practice. He will many cases it could be truthfully said that be able to work in the practice under the certain medical practitione,rs would not make supervision of a registered veterinary sur­ decent horse doctors. The legal code of geon. He will not be able to charge fees the Babylonian kings of 1800 B.C. prescribed on his own account, but can accept a salary. fees for doctors of asses and oxen. No In this way he will be afforded the means doubt the legal codes covering veterinary of acquiring experience under our conditions surgeons have been amended many times aJ?d supporting himself in the process, and since then to keep abreast with changing his prospects of passing the registration demands and developments, and the Opposi­ examination will thereby be greatly improved. tion accepts the need for further amend­ ments today. The Bill will provide the Veterinary Sur­ geons Board of Queensland with substanti­ In more serious vein, I doubt that many ally increased control over the operation and people fully appreciate the advanced skills management of veterinary hospitals, clinics of present-day veverinarians, or the enormous and centres. In the first place, the use of contribution made by them to our present these terms in relation to premises will be rural economy. I have been unable to obtain subject to approval by the board. In a any precise Australian figures, but, by way number of ways the board will have a greater of illustration, it is conservatively estimated influence than heretofore on the manner in that in the United States of America yearly which a veterinary surgeon conducts his losses from animal diseases represent 10 practice. per cent of the total value of that nation's livestock. This illustrates the great import­ This being so, it has been considered proper ance of efficient veterinary services, whether to increase the number of elected members they be private-practice or Government ser­ of the board and reduce the number of vices. In Australia there is no single veter­ Government nominees. The Bill provides inary service. Separate services are main­ that three members will be elected and tained by the Commonwealth Government two nominated. This is in contrast with and the State Governments. All are import­ the present board structure of two elected ant custodians of animal health. and three nominated members. I think this should be acceptable to all honourable The amendments now before the Com­ members. mittee apply, of course, to Queensland's registration requirements and other condi­ Looking a little into the future, the Bill tions of the profession. Dr. H. R. Seddon, provides for the making of regulations relat­ the first Dean of the Faculty of Veterinary ing to qualifications for animal nurses and Science at the Queensland University, which animal attendants, and their functions and was set up in 1936 by a Labor Govermnent duties. under Premier Forgan Smith-incidentally, 2374 Veterinary Surgeons Act [6 DEC£MBER 1973] Amendment Bill

it closed in 1942 because of war-time con­ colleges of world-wide reputation, those cred­ ditions-referred to the aims of the faculry entials will be accepted at the discretion of in these terms- the board without further examination, "Briefly, the aims are to prevent or whereas if applicants have credentials from cure disease and suffering in all domestic colleges of doubtful credence, the board animals, and to raise the productivity will conduct an examination to see if they of our animal industries by sound breed­ meet Queensland standards. Is that what ing, feeding, and management." is intended? This, then, is the meat of the matter. As In his introduction, the Minister said that most animals in this country are privately in the intervening years since the inception owned, the question of the standard of service of the board in 1937, the size and scope to the owners of stock is also of paramount of veterinary services, and the demand for importance. In his introduction, the Minister them, have increased markedly. I think we said we must not forget the animal's interest can accept that statement. This seems to in the matter. Likewise, we must not forget have been advanced, however, as a reason the owner's interest. This is of equal import­ for increasing the number of elected rep­ ance. resentatives on the board. I must confess that the Opposition views this proposal with In looking at this Bill, we must be sure a certain amount of doubt and, I admit, that its provisions not only update the wishes suspicion. of the profession but are also in the best The original board was established by a interests of the public whom the profession Labor administration, and it consisted of serves. Some of the provisions are obviously two elected members, two Government of an updating, machinery nature. Some are members, and •a chairman who was-and I obviously designed to define the grey areas think still is-the Dean of the Faculty of of professional care. Some appear to close Veterinary Science at the University of the industry for its protection. There is Queensland. The merits claimed for the no evil in {his, provided the closure or the new constitution of the board could be definition is to maintain or improve veterin­ accepted if its mandate is correctly used. ary standards and does not develop a select However, if the increased elected representa­ or exclusive profession which does not or t1on is used to close the field and make the cannot cater for the increasing needs and profession an exclusive preserve, the result higher s~andards required by the present-day could be high fees and a completely inade­ commumty. quate service to a more sophisti~ated and The Minister said it is virtually impossible expanding livestock industry. to succ~ssfully prosecute persons who, while At this stage the Opposition Wtill not ~ot regtstere? as veterinary surgeons, engage oppose the ·alteration to the composition of !n the practice of veterinary surgery. This the board. We realise that, if it is used 1s accepted. We do not want what might correctly, it could improve the functioning be termed "quacks" masquerading as quali­ of the board and the standard of veterinary fied veterinarians. This is one of the grey services in this State. However, I am sure areas I referred to. Many men in the field all members realise that a great responsibility of stock care have a lifetime of experience rests on the Government because, in our but no academic qualifications, yet they are opinion, there will be an imbalance on the very capable of looking after stock. Many board. Although the expansion of veterinary people resent the fact that these people are services might warrant increased representa­ not per!Uitted to hand_le drugs, give injections, tion on the board, an imbalance is produced and th1s type of thmg. This will always between Government appointees and indus­ be a grey area. If qualified men are to try representatives. We therefore say that look after highly valuable stock, there will there is a great responsibility, not only on be borderline cases in which we will not the Government but also on the appointed be able to satisfy everybody on every and elected members, to see that the Gov­ occasion. ernment's intention to improve veterinary services is brought about, and that the altera­ The proposition that we must have quali­ tion does not become a means of producing fied men is sound, as long as sufficient veterinary surgeons are available to cater costly and inadequate veterinary services. for all our needs. It is therefore desirable That is all I wish to say at this stage. I that an avenue be created, as the Minister reserve the right to speak further when we has foreshadowed, by authorising the Queens­ have examined the Bill in detail and are land board to conduct examinations for the more conversant with what it proposes. admission to registration of graduates from overseas veterinary colleges, as long as they Mr. CORY (Warwick) (9.53 p.m.): I have the necessary qualifications. support the introduction of the Bill, and, basically, I am in agreement with what it At this stage I am not quite clear on contains. There are, however, a few matters the Minister's statement that graduates from that are of concern to many people in the some colleges will be exempted from examin­ field of veterinary services in Queensland. ation by the board, at its discretion, while The previO'lls speaker mentioned some things others will not be. I assume, however, that that are of concern to me and to others who if aoplicants have certified credentials from from time to time require the services of Veterinary Surgeons Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill 2375 veterinary surgeons. One thing he mentioned, protect and assist the stock industry. In which I also have in mind, is the hope that some instances, of course, the stockowner the Bill is designed to provide better veter­ has no option but to take a punt and hope inary services rather than m~rely make that the animal lives, and that happens now. things better for veterinarians. This needs Perhaps the most important part of a veter­ to be watched carefully, as, in this matter inary surgeon's equipment is his motor-car, the professionals and those who require thear and the mileage allowance he charges makes services are of equal importance. I shall running that motor-car a fairly lucrative make further reference to that point as I business. However, it also makes veterinary proceed. services very expensive when he has a It is true that there is an increasing need number of miles to travel, and stockowners for the services of veterinarians, and there must bear that in mind. will be a problem in finding sufficient of Many stock inspectors, particularly those them to meet the demand. It is also true in the Department of Primary Industries, that very definite gulide-lines need to be laid have played a very important part in the down so that the profession knows where it districts in which they are stationed. Their is going and can play its important part in skill and experience is equal to that of non­ the community. qualified vets, and I think it would be a We need veterinary surgeons who are great pity if the industry was not able to interested in their job and who have a feel­ make use of their services. ing for the animals with which they are Mr. Jensen interjected. dealing. Unfortunately, some members of the profession are only out to make a "quid" Mr. CORY: They are not diploma men. and are not interested in efficiency. Although They are farmers, graziers and others who there are not many of them, they bring a have lived with stock all their life. They certain amount of discredit to the profession have learned ,to treat stock diseases and stock as a whole. I think all honourable members injuries. have seen instances of academically qualified Mr. Jensen: You want to chop out the veterinary surgeons who are unsuited to their profession. It is obvious from the way in good practical man. which they treat broken bones or extract Mr. CORY: Certainly not. He is the man teeth from animals, or perhaps from the fact I am defending. that an animal inoculated for milk fever later dies from a tick. Even a layman can usually Mr. Jensen: You couldn't emasculate a cat. recognise what has happened. I hope, there­ Mr. CORY: I could actually. fore, that the progressive upgrading of the profession will assist in attracting those who The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. are genuinely interested in it and will give Wharton): Order! The honourable member to it the little bit extra that is needed. is interrupting a good speech. Although a person treating animals has a certain amount of latitude, when one pays a Mr. CORY: I would be much better on a veterinary surgeon to attend to an animal cat than on a stick of sugar cane! one expects thoroughly professional service, The T.B.-eradication scheme we have in not the slackness that one sees creeping in Queensland is a very good one. We need from time to time. In effect the proposed to bring about a situation which encourages Bill tightens the rules in favour of the people to have their herds tested for tubercu­ qualified veterinary surgeon against the man losis. Compensation is paid only for stock who has no qualifications, and another hon­ that react to the test, but not for untested ourable member has already referred to that. stock that are found to be suffering from It is true that the qualified man needs and T.B. when they are slaughtered. The basic deserves some protection. However, we must idea behind that is to encourage the industry not forget the very excellent service that to have stock tested. The stockowner receives has been given to the stock industry over a reward for having his stock tested. It is the years by interested people who, as a not paid for untested stock, and this is the result of their experience, have been able to save many animals from suffering and right approach. dying. One case that was drawn to my attention concerned a beast that was showing obvious Mr. Jensen: You are leaving them out in signs of sickness. The stock inspector directed the cold now, are you? that it be slaughtered. When it was Mr. CORY: I am saying that, under an slaughtered it was found to have T.B. No Act such as this, problems arise once a compensation was allowed for that beast charge is made for services. I reiterate that because its slaughter had not been authorised we must not forget the good job that these by a veterinary surgeon. If the district people have done, and are still doing, in veterinary officer had authorised the many areas. In many instances the cost slaughtering of the beast, the owner would of veterinary services are prohibitively high. have been eligible for compensation. Those A person who lives in the locality and has are the only circumstances in which com­ only a short distance to travel can make pensation is payable, other than for reactors his time available much more cheaply to to T.B. tests. 2376 Veterinary Surgeons Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill

Perhaps we can get too tight with our rules. Mr. O'DONNELL (Belyando) (10.7 p.m.): Because some people hold veterinary degrees, There is no doubt that veterinary science that does not mean that others do not have has definitely taken many advanced steps in certain knowledge and ability in this field. the last 30 or 40 years, and any young person who attends university soon realises An Honourable Member: Is the amount that the course is a very difficult one indeed, of compensation satisfactory? requiring intense application to study not only from the theoretical side but from the Mr. CORY: The amount is not entirely practical side as well. Therefore, anyone satisfactory, but it is the first move, in the who graduates with any form of distinction right direotion. It is a very important step is a great asset to the community. forward. It is not too hard to increase some­ I think we must realise that there are thing, but it is impossible to double nothing. now two sections of the community in The principle has been accepted, and we receipt of extensive services by veterinarians. can work on h. I think it will be difficult to We have, first of all, what is most obvious get the payment increased while the present to people in the cities, namely, services to Federal Government remains in office. When the pet industry. Naturally, however, mem­ the 50-25-25 formula was worked out, it bers of this Assembly will speak more of took into account the Commonwealth Gov­ the services that extend to the primary indus­ ernment's contribution, which has now been try field. It is a matter of great concern withdrawn. Its 50 per cent will now have to to Queensland that there are highly qualified come from increased slaughtering taxes on graduates in veterinary science, and as many the beef industry. of them as are required to meet the needs of the State. Because of the tremendous We are becoming too theoretical in the acreage of the State, this is of the utmost administration of veterinary services. importance. Chemists are not allowed to sell certain vet­ erinary products to stockowners. We know Over the years we have endeavoured to that some have been selling them for many service various districts, and from time to years, but they are not legally entitled to time veterinary officers have had to be with­ do so. The stockowner is supposed to drawn from certain areas. No doubt Mr. telephone a veterinary surgeon and ask Clay, the Director of Animal Husbandry, him to visit the property. The stockowner will remember the many protests that came has to pay for his mileage, time and every­ from people who were demanding services thing else. The vet will give a pres­ locally and who were temporarily deprived cription, and the owner then has to drive of them. back to the town from which the vet had The honourable member for Warwick has just come, pick up the drug from the chemist raised some conspicuous problems. I refer and then drive back and administer it to to them as conspicuous because in this vast the animal. This happens at times, but in State we lag far behind in the number of most cases the stockowner does not bother. veterinary officers we need, whether depart­ He simply allows the animal to suffer and mental or graduates in private practice. The live or die as nature determines. rural areas have become dependent for quali­ fied personnel on the Department of Primary I think we should think a bit more about Industries. allowing a qualified chemist to sell penicillin In the rigid application of the rules in and streptomycin products, which are used prescribing medicine for the animal king­ extensively for anything from mammitis to dom, the vastness of the State presents a foot-rot in sheep and cattle and various pig difficult problem. From time to time oertain complaints. I think we should have a system chemists stipulate that medicines required under which the stockowner can keep on in the treatment of animals cannot be sup­ hand many of these products so that he can plied unless the prescription is accompanied use them promptly and immediately when by an authority from a veterinary surgeon. the need arises, instead of having to suffer, Just as in the treatment of human beings, firstly, unnecessary expense and, secondly, so, too, in the treatment of sick animals is unnecessary delay. the time factor of utmost importance. Conse­ We know that this is happening now, but quently, because certain chemists insist on it is illegal. I think it is a pretty poor set-up such authority, and also because of the when people have to do these things illegally remoteness of certain parts of the State, in order to run their business efficiently. stnck losses from sickness do occur. It is completely uneconomic to have to pay Throughout Queensland there are a professional fees and mileage when both number of studs. The death of any animal as the stockowner and the chemist know a result of sickness causes financial loss to exactly what the problem is and what should the owner, more so in the event of a death be done for it. I hope these things will be of a stud animal. I cannot provide any ready looked at and that the academic, theoretical solution to the problem. If, for example, a sort of procedure will not get completely veterinary officer is stationed at Longreach, out of hand. I hope we will have something another at Emerald and another at Rock­ that is workable and useful not only to the hampton, the result is that those three officers veterinarian, but also to the industry. are required to service one-third of the State. Veterinary Surgeons Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill 2377

I am quite sure that the honourable member similar problem in virtually every calling for Roma will support my contention that that demands specialised knowledge, be it the present situation is grave. I simply do a profession or a trade. It is very hard for not know when there will be a sufficient people who are not versed in a calling to number of qualified men to provide the argue the point with a professional man or veterinary services that this great primary­ a tradesman. Under the measure, three industry State requires. qualified men are to be elected to the board In passing, I mention tha,t in the Primary and, naturally, they will be deeply and Industries Department there are lesser­ closely involved in their profession. One qualified personnel, such as sheep and wool person is to be nominated by the Govern­ advisers and stock inspectors. They have ment, and the professor is to be the chair­ been a great asset to primary industry by man. He, too, is a qualified man so the offering both practical advice and help to professional men will dominate the board the man on the land. by. four to one. Under the old system, the rat10 was three to two. We must examine If I might digress for a moment, I should this very important point to determine if like -to refer to surveyors, who, a few years the ratio of representation is in line with ago, attempted to have introduced into this that on boards of a similar character. Chamber legislation similar to this. They endeavoured to protect themselves as an Another important factor relates to assist­ organised group. But where did their pro~ i~~ qual!fied people from o¥erseas to par­ posals finish up? The answer is, of course, ticipate rn this work, which is so import­ in the waste-paper basket. Although the ant. I am sure no-one could object to legislation was listed on the Business Paper, that. The board may well consider giving because of lack of agreement, of which the migrants who have equipped themselves pro­ Opposition was not cognisant, it was not perly, a~d can speak our language, the brought forward. Tonight we are debating opportun~ty. to prov:: themselves by taking a proposal that has been put forward by the. qual!fyrng examrnation. This is good. qualified veterinarians. It IS only common sense that in a nation On what the Minister said in his very like ~ustralia, we should use, 'for our own brief introductory speech, it is obvious that matenal benefit, the professional migrants the legislation is designed to serve a very that we seek each year. Anything that will restricted purpose, that is, to consolidate the lessen the trials and tribulations of migrants position of veterinarians in this State and is worth fostering. to offer them as much protection as pos­ . It is e~sential that we should study the sible. It will therefore meet with some Bill. I srncerely hope that this work will reaction, as was evident in the contribution advance and expand the number, quality made by the honourable member for War­ and standard of graduates. I want it clearly wick, who spoke of "back-yard" men-men un~erstood that most of what has been said with experience in the dairy, cattle and sheep tomght has been worthy of saying. industries-who, because of the desperate shortage of qualified people, give a veterinary In conclusion, I should like to refer to service to various people in their localities. the question of compensation. Under present It cannot be denied that there is a short­ circumst_ances in Queensland, where we have age of qualified professional men, whether a defimte shortage of these professional they deal with the health of humans people, we may have to find an intermediate or of animals. Perhaps the effect of this alternative to ensure that the man on the shortage is not so serious in the more closely land can receive, in respect of losses the settled States of Victoria and New South ~o~pensation to which he is entitled. 'This Wales, but the vastness of Queensland makes Js 1mportant. As I pointed out to one hon­ it an almost insurmountable problem. ourable member this afternoon, there is not much .sense in my wanting a prescription It is very important that we should closely scrutinise this legislation, which obviously ?r a certJficate from a veterinarian if he IS at some watercourse or other attending to affords very strong protection to people who, someone else's cattle, thus making it com­ at this stage, need virtually no protection pletely impossible for me to make even because, professionally, they dominate the telephonic contact with him. We must face situation through lack of competition. up to t~is problen:. We must provide some Mr. N. T. E. Hewitt: Are you suggest­ alternative to havmg the professional man ing that those who may come to Queens­ make decisions on compensation cases so land shortly will be disadvantaged? that people on the land will appreciate that they are receiving reasonable consideration Mr. O'DONNELL: No, but I do say that when things are very worrying to them. I this is very protective legislation. need not weary the Committee with the The honourable member for Isis referred number of occasions on which this can to the proposed change in the composition happen. of the board. I can understand the change _I . should like to see the Bill before com­ from a veterinarian's point of view. He mittlng myself any further. Judging by the would like to see professional strength on remarks of the Opposition shadow Minister the board, claiming, as he does that he is for Primary Industries (Mr. Blake) he is a professional man. We are f~ced with a of the same opinion. When we see the Bill ' 2378 Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Property Law Bill

I hope we will be able to say that some­ working paper which was circulated widely thing worth while has been done for veter­ to interested persons and bodies. The recom­ inary science. mendations of the commission reflect the comments, criticism and suggestions received Hon. V. B. SULLIVAN (Condamine­ from interested persons and bodies to whom Minister for Primary Industries) (10.24 p.m.), the working paper was distributed. in reply: It appears that the honourable members for Isis, Belyando and Warwick The principal object of the Bill is to have accepted what is contained in the Bill. assimilate in one statute, so far as possible, When the honourable members have seen the rules of Jaw applying to land, whether it and studied it, they may have some crit­ it be freehold or leasehold, and whether icism to voice at the second·reading stage. registered or unregistered. It is desirable that uniformity should be attained where As I pointed out in my introduction, this possible, and the proposals go a long way is the first time that this legislation has been towards achieving this without interfering amended since 1937. In that period there with the essential provisions of particular have been many changes in the techniques Acts. Added to this is the fact that the of husbandry, control of disease in stock provisions of the Bill will, unless inap­ and farming practices generally, so that it propriate, apply to property other than has become necessary for the department, land, thus producing an element of uniformity and for me as Minister, to update the in the law of both real and personal pro­ legislation. That is all we are trying to perty. do. I do not think the honourable members The Bill is the product of over two years who spoke indicated any major objection to of investigation, inquiry and research by the the Bill. Law Reform Commission, involving an Mr. Tomkins: They couldn't. examination of property laws statutes and reports of Law Reform Commissions from Mr. SULLIVAN: No, but let us not be various overseas countries and Australian provocative. It's too late for that. States. In this way the commission has Honourable members have indicated that been able to extract the best of what has they accept the Bill. They want it printed gone before, as well as to introduce improve­ so that they can study it. If there are some ments and innovations which have not been provisions in it with which they do not agr.ee, attempted (although in some cases suggested) they can be considered at the second-readmg in other places. stage. That is all I need to say now. Fundamentally, the proposals contained in Motion (Mr. Sullivan) agreed to. the Bill are based on well-tried provisions Resolution reported. of 'legislation which have been in use for long periods, with the consequence that there FIRST READING are numerous judicial decisions and texts providing expositions of particular sections. Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. Sullivan, read a first time. It is, indeed, one of the principal dis­ advantages of the present state of the laws in Queensland that decisions and standard PROPERTY LAW BILL texts and precedents appropriate for legisla­ INITIATION IN COMMITTEE tion elsewhere cannot safely be relied upon by legal practitioners, and that the difficulty, (Mr. Wharton, Burnett, in the chair) and therefore the expense, of ascertaining Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister the existing law becomes daily greater and for Justice) (10.28 p.m.): I move- greater. In the end, it is the community as a whole which bears the cost of an "That a Bill be introduced to con­ inefficient law and legal process, and it is solidate, amend, and reform the law relat­ therefore the community that will principally ing to conveyancing, property, and con­ benefit when the proposals contained in this tract, and to terminate the application of Bill become positive law. certain imperial statutes." Except where otherwise provided, the Bill Under its approved programme, the ~w Reform Commission was required to examme will bind the Crown. Previous reports and the law of property with a view to pre­ recommendations of the commission in rela­ tion to statutes of frauds and perpetuities and paring a modern Law of Property . ~et. The report of the Law Reform Comm1ss1on accumulations resulted in Acts being passed upon property law reform is a comprehensive in 1972. The commission now proposes document of some 130 pages which was the re-enactment, with one minor change, of produced in February 1973 and tabled in the Perpetuities and Accumulations Act 1972 this Chamber on 6 April 1973. The report, and the Statute of Frauds 1972 without which embodies the recommendations of the change. commission for the codification, updating The Real Property Acts provide the and reform of the law relating to property method of registration of title of freehold in Queensland, comprises a draft Bill.. and land known as the "Torrens system". This a detailed commentary on the prov1s1ons system has greatly simplified conveyancing, of that draft Bill. Prior to the preparation and today almost all freehold land in of the report, the commission released a Queensland has been registered under it. Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Property Law Bill 2379

However, there remains approximately 1,700 Commission report to which the Minister to 2,000 acres of "old system" land scattered referred, I must congratulate the members throughout Queensland. The commission of the commission on the work they have recommends provisions to compel registra­ done. I do not agree with their every point tion of all such "unregistered land" held or comment, but I firmly believe that they under the "old system". made an in-depth study of the law in this Provisions contained in the Bill will replace field. the Termination of Tenancies Act. The Time will not allow a complete canvass of general policy of this Act has been preserved. all the areas that the Minister mentioned, An explanatory note on the provisions of or all those that the Law Reform Commission the Bill has been prepared and attached as studied, so I intend to confine my remarks a front cover of the printed Bill. I do not to the specific area of property law per­ propose to elaborate further on the provisions taining to landlords and tenants. We all of the Bill. If it is to be seriously con­ realise that the property law in this State sidered, then its several provisions will have ranks as one of the most archaic in the English to be given detailed and serious study. speaking world. This is a point that was well Although the Law Reform Commission made by the Law Reform Commission. It goes report on the Biii was tabled in this Chamber back to pre-Norman Conquest times. I think some seven to eight months ago, because of we all realise that there has always been a the complex and detailed nature of the real need for simplification of property law, provisions of the Bill, and to give all honour­ and, moreover, consolidation of that law. It able members an opportunity of making is noted, too, that legislative action was themselves fully conversant with its provi­ taken in England in 1959, and also in the sions, I do not propose to proceed with the Australian States, except Queensland to this second reading of the Bill until the March point. session next year. In the interval between The Law Reform Commission makes the the first and second readings of the Bil'l, I pertinent comment in its report that "only invite constructive comments on its provisions Queensland remains faithful to a system from all persons and bodies interested in the which as long ago as 1646 was declared by reform of our property laws. Any sug­ Oliver Cromwell to be a godless jumble". gestions for amendment to the proposed Biii I think we would all agree with that when which are received by me on or before we try to study law in this State as it Friday, 8 February 1974, will be considered pertains to property. fully, and amendments will be made to the On reading the report, I noted that it Bill where it is considered desirable to do so. covers many aspects-deeds and covenants, For the assistance of honourable members, instruments and contracts, future interests, I have made available in the Parliamentary corporations, perpetuities and accumulations, Library additiona'l copies of the Law Reform concurrent interests, freehold estates, mort­ Commission's report upon which this Bill is gages and leases and tenancies. The report based. I also have additional copies of the I have runs to 133 foolscap pages. report that I will table so that honourable members who have mislaid their own copy I am very pleased to hear that the Minister of the report may refresh their memory. intends to leave the second-reading of the Bill until the latter part of the session Whereupon the honourable gentleman laid next year. However, I do wish to mention the documents on the table. some aspects of the Termination of Tenancies I indicate at this stage that at the second­ Act as it has been called since the previous reading stage amendments to the Bill could Act, the Landlord and Tenant Act, was well come from the Government. Substan­ repealed in 1970. Many questions have been tially it is the draft Bill recommended by asked in this Chamber about this Act. It the Law Reform Commission, but there have has been open to interpretation, much to been some amendments to it. The Govern­ the detriment of landlords and tenants alike. ment parties have not yet considered the Biii Wrongs have been perpetrated by both parties, in detail, but they think it should be printed and rarely has any redress been available and exposed in its present form and made or possible in law. I think the obligations freely available to the community so that of landlords and tenants have been most adequate comment can be made on it. unclear. I have asked the Minister to outline, Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (10.35 p.m.): as have honourable members on both sides, On a number of occasions I have spoken exactly what a tenant could depend on when in this Chamber about the need for the exercising his rights at law. Government to adopt a positive approach There has been legal argument over the to the consolidation and codification of the responsibility of tenants or lessees in the law in Queensland. It is certainly very pleas­ area of keeping premises in good repair. ing to me that at long last something is There has always been a need for clarification being done about the law relating to con­ as to whether or not a written agreement veyancing, property and contract. I must is required. We need to get in our Statute admit that in the past I have been somewhat Book some very clear provisions so that constructively critical of the progress in law we know the obligations of both parties when reform in this State. However, having spent it comes to rents, the duty of care of many hours going through the Law Reform premises, the obligation to maintain rented 2380 Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Property Law Bill premises in a condition-to use the terms this surely should not include doing up the of the commission report-fit for human plumbing, repairing the electric wiring in the habitation. house, interior painting and many other things that some are expected to do. Many I am sure that we have all seen some of a problem has confronted tenants and they the houses in which people are forced to have had to do these things. They cannot live. It would not be too much to say that complain, because, :if they do, up goes their many of them are pigsties. Many of them rent. I am Sillre most honourable members are dangerous in structure. Many are white­ realise this. If the tenant says to the land­ ant-eaten. One man in Rockhampton-I have lord "I want this done or that done", the been waiting to comment on this aspect­ landlord says, "I will do it for you, but the ·Only recently was renting a disused dairy, rent will go up $5 a week." which had broken masonite and fibro walls. Another house in the area had no electricity, I believe that we should set out in our and there was not one pane of glass in statute books definite standards, stating the windows. It had only one door. If I exactly what we in this Assembly believ.e make a comparison with some of the houses should be the condition fit for human habi­ I saw on Thursday Island, then Rockhamp­ tat~on. These should cover all aspects of ton is well off. One house I saw on Thursday safety, w,iring and structure. I recently w~nt Island had three families living in it. Some into a house whose steps were almost fallmg of the houses had dirt floors. Very few down. I asked the lady what was wrong and of those I saw had electricity. One had she said "The landlord will not fix them." an earth closet that was an earth closet I said ,;Why not?" She said, "Because if he in the real sense. It was no more than a has t~, I have to pay for them." I will not hole in the ground with a fruit box on go into the further things that hapl?ened top. Many houses all over the State lack about this, but hers is the general attitude. proper facilities. I also think that the standards we set Action has been taken in other countries. should allow for certain comforts that we In England, the Housing Act of 1957 required all take for granted. We should provide for that houses be fit for human habitation. electricity and water-for that matter, hot Similar provision was made in Canada where water. And houses should be weather-proof. the Landlord and Tenant Act imposes such Many rented homes a,re not. I tl1:ink we also an obligation on landlords, namely, an need to look at the rights of landlords and obligation of providing and maintaining tenants in the area of entry and repossession. rented premises in a good state of repair We have had compraints of landlords enter­ and fit for human habitation during the ing premises at all hours of .the night and tenancy. Under the old Landlord and Tenant ridiculous hours of the mormng. We have Act in this State there was a provision had them entering at mealtimes without due which prohibited the letting of dwellings notice. Questions have been as~~d about not being in a fair and livable condition. this in the House and the Mu111ster for But let me point out to the Committee Justice has endeavoured to explain the situa­ that this protection was repealed by this tion to us. He has emphasised that the Government in 1970. I think we must admit landlord naturally has the right to enter a that a provision like this is surely required home if it means protecting his property. I to protect tenants and ensure that a reason­ do not think there is anything wrong with able standard of living conditions is main­ that, but I think tit is common sense that tained for those people in our community due notice should be given to all tenants. It who, for some reason or another, do not is not fair for a landlord simply to enter. own their own homes. Recent statistics I I believe that the Act stipulates that he have seen show that something like 20 per must give 48 hours' notice or something to cent of the people of Queensland do not this effect. own their own homes and are living in rented dwellings. Mr. Hughes: Sunrise to sunset and never I accept that tenants also have a respon­ on Sunday. sibility; let me make that point very clear. But I believe that their obligations or Mr. WRIGHT: I see. I think we have to responsibilities to care for premises should let landlords enter premises if in fact the not be too stringent because, after all, they rent has not been paid, but I ilii?k onl~ if it has been owing for an excessive penod. are paying hard cash for the right to live where they do. I think we should look very carefully at this. Mr. Kaus: It does not give them the right Mr. Murray: What do you suggest? to destroy. Mr. WRIGHT: I will take that point. It Mr. WRIGHT: I am going to cover this has been said that they have no right to point further when we deal with ejectment destroy. I think they have an obligation to and things like that. I know landlords who avoid causing damage. I might even go continually pressurise their tenants. The so far as to say that I agree that tenants moment the tenants fall a day or two behind have somewhat of a moral obLigation to in their rent, in go the landlor~s. This may keep the place in reasonable order. But be reasonable if a tenant continuously does Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973) Property Law Bill 2381 not pay rent, but I think this is abnormal It has been said that a tenant can have and I feel that people should be protected such a dispute heard in the Magistrates against the abuse of entry. Court. I point out, however, that in order to retrieve a bond of, say, $50, the tenant I have always thought that the law has could be faced with court costs amounting been there to protect the tenant against the to $150. Reasonable limits should be aggressive landlord, but I do not think this imposed on the quantum of bonds. has been so in practice-at least, it has not been implemented. I do not think that We should stress this point because the tenants should have things all their own payment of bonds causes so much hardship way because I have come across some to tenants. No-one would deny that the tenants whom I can describe as professionals. vast majority of people who rent houses are They are leeches. Some of them are not wealthy. Admittedly, many highly paid "beauties" the way they get into a dwelling public servants rent homes when they are and stick to it. I came across a case in transferred, but usually the person who con­ Emu Park. I was called upon by our con­ tinually rents a home is one who does not sumers asSiociation to help the landlord, and have a great amount of money and finds it I was happy to do so. The lady involved extremely difficult to pay the $50 bond as was a great old dear. She paid one week's well as the first fortnight's rent in advance, rent and then proclaimed she would not pay which is sometimes one month's rent in another cent until some quite unreasonable advance. provisions had been met. She wanted a I believe that a bond does give a landlord new hot-water system, a new electric stove protection against wilful damage and also and a new clothes line-and she was paying against the fly-by-night tenant. Although I $7 a week. She was being totally unreason­ believe it is only right that we should afford able, but it took the landlord six months to such protection to a landlord, I also think get her out. that the system is open to abuse. Until we Other tenants adopt the tactic of simply impose limits on the quantum of bonds, we not moving until the eviction notice comes. will not protect the tenant. A day or two before it arrives, out they The landlord's hand is strengthened by go, without paying, say, 30 days' rent. Others the lack of clarity about a tenant's responsi­ become squatters and believe that landlords bility for repairs. He does not know exactly should provide them with free accommoda­ in law what he has to meet by way of tion. repair. On many occasions a landlord will I heard of a fellow in Rockhampton who say to a tenant who is about to vacate the had a Housing Commission Home. He kept premises, "You have to fix this and that, the outside looking beautiful, but inside and if you don't I will keep your $50 bond." he tore down the walls. Landlords have This aspect should be examined very closely. rights that we need to protect. However, I know of a landlord in Rockhampton we need to clarify the obligations of both who charged his tenant a cleaning fee when tenant and landlord, especially in relation the premises were vacated. That might be to damage caused by tenants. quite in order, because the tenant may have left the premises in an untidy state. How­ Mr. Hughes: This could be on the lease. ever, the landlord then imposed a cleaning fee on the next tenant. Although this may Mr. WRIGHT: It should be on a written be an isolated case, I am told that it arises contract. I know of a case in Rockhampton quite often when rental accommodation is in which a landlord said to his tenant, "You scarce. have damaged my stove, and I have to buy a new one." I point out that the tenant Another aspect of the existing law that had been in occupation for only 12 months is what I might term a grey area is the and the stove was 11 years old. The land­ notice that must be given to terminate a lord was taking legal action against the tenancy. Very few tenants sign written tenant, who was extremely worried. agreements, and therefore their rights are extremely vague. I come back to the point of landlords holding tenants' money. Without doubt this In 1970 the Government brought forward is the greatest weapon that a landlord holds a number of provisions in the Termination over a tenant's head. I refer, of course, to of Tenancies Act, the aim of which was bonds. In many instances the bond is a to simplify the termination of tenancies racket. There seems to be no limit at law by notice to quit. I believe, however, that to the amount of a bond required by a the Act was poorly drafted and is open to landlord from a tenant who desires to rent wide interpretation. As well, it has been his dwelling. Numerous disputes have arisen the target of severe criticism from the legal over bonds. The landlord holds on to it profession. very tightly, because he wants to ensure At common law a notice to quit may be that everything has been done properly. I either oral or written. However, I note do not blame him for that, but what is that the Law Reform Commission recom­ the situation if the tenant has carried out mends that a notice to quit should be in his duty of care and has paid his rent? writing and in fact should not be enforceable Even then he experiences tremendous diffi­ unless in writing. I see great merit in this culty in having his money returned to him. recommendation. All these points should 2382 Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Property Law Bill

be made extremely clear. We should ensure rents. I realise that, in this inflationary that, when a person is to be given a notice time, with escalating costs, a landlord cannot to quit, it is not simply put in his letterbox, be bound to a weekly rental for a year. passed on to a friend with the admonition, However, tenants should receive due notice "Give this to so-and-so", or given to a 16- before rent is increased. That does not year-old, or a 6-year-old child, as happen. A person with a month-to-month is often the case. I have heard tenancy is told by the landlord a day or so of instances in which a child who before the rent is due, "I am very sorry, but answers the door is told by the landlord, your rent is to be increased by $5." In "Give this to your mother." Notices to quit Rockhampton, an old lady pensioner had should be 5erved personally on tenants. her rent increased from $12 to $27 a week Mr. W. D. Hewitt: And they must be because the landlord wanted her out, be­ in proper form. lieving that he could get a far better rent. I admit that he intended to extend the Mr. WRIGHT: That is so. I believe they building, but that is how he tried to evict should state the reason why the tenant is the tenant. The lady had nowhere to go. being evicted, although the Act does not We should re-introduce reasonable rent require that. control. Mr. D'Arcy: At this time of the year on Mr. W. D. Hewitt: One of the problems the Gold Coast, tenants have been thrown is the relationship of rent to unreal valua­ out in the street because the landlords can tions. get higher rents. Mr. WRIGHT: I would not recommend Mr. WRIGHT: That is criminal, and I that anyone should buy houses for rental, intend to refer to it. Notices to quit are because I do not see how he could get his often back-dated. The landlord simply money back. writes a letter and backdates it. It is very The whole situation concerning landlords difficult for a tenant to get alternative accom­ and tenants has been a grey area, wide modation within a week, let alone three or open to interpretation. I doubt that many four days. I am pleased that the Law solicitors in Queensland could tell anyone Reform Commission has made some very the proper grounds on which a landlord can forthright recommendations. Knowing that ask someone to quit premises. It is not good the Minister is interested in the commission's enough to serve a notice to quit when a recommenda·tions, I hope he has heeded them. person is one week behind in his rent, but The situation is often aggravated by that excuse is often used. Somehow we must tenants not paying rent on the due date. eliminate the excuse-which is often a false­ Very often the rent period starts on a hood-that the house is to be sold. Tenants Monday, and the tenant gets behind a are told, "You must get out because I am couple of days, and then a few more days, selling the house." At the same time, they and eventually he is paying his rent on a are often told, "If you want to stay, it will Friday. It then becomes difficult for the cost you an extra $10 a week until I sell." landlord to serve a notice to quit on the We should examine these tactics very care­ day of the week on which the tenancy fully. started. It is wrong that tenants should not I have referred to a numbe·r of the prob­ be given sufficient time to get altemative lems facing landlords and tenants. I reiterate accommodation. If a tenant has a month-to­ that the rights of both landlords and tenants month tenancy, he should be given a month have been very vague. The Minister has not to quit; if he has a fortnight's tenancy he been able to clarify them in answers to should have at least a fortnight to quit. On questions directed to him. This is no doubt a logical basis it could be said that, with the reason for these recommendations and a weekly tenancy, the tenant should have the legislation. a week to quit, but at this point we should stray from this idea. People who have a Mr. Bromley: He might give you a legal weekly tenancy should be given an extra opinion in the Chamber. week in which to get out, because of the Mr. WRIGHT: I think he would probably extreme difficulty they face in finding other try, if he was able to. We must admit at accommodation. this point that this is an area of law in which I think it was the honourable member for solicitors and even our top silks could not Bundaberg who spoke about a landlord help. raising the rent in order to get a tenant (Time expired.) out. I was told of a case in Mt. Isa where the landlord threatened to increase the rent Mr. BURNS (Lytton) (10.55 p.m.): I to $200. The tenant raced to a solicitor apologise for not being in the Chamber to and asked him if the landlord could do that. hear the Minister's introduction. However, The solicitor said, "I am afraid so, and I should like to speak briefly on the question if you stay for a month, you could be up of conveyancing. I feel that this is a prob­ for $800 because the landlord could go to lem that adds a large sum of money to the law to claim the back rent." It is a great purchase price of a home and places an pity that we repealed the provisions pegging intolerable burden on young people. They Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Property Law Bill 2383 see a home advertised in the Press for Mr. BURNS: Let us assume it is $1.25 per $20,000. They then go to a real estate agent, $100 or part thereof on the contract price, who takes them out to have a look at the and 25c per $100 or part thereof on the house. If they decide to purchase it, they mortgage. On top of the other charges, the approach a building society and, if they have purchaser has to pay $250 to meet those saved $6,000, they borrow $14,000 to pur­ costs. In addition, he still has to pay Titles chase the home. Little do they know that Office fees, transfer registration fees, Bill of the advertised price of $20,000 is only the Mortgage fees, land-tax search fees and, start, and that there are many hidden costs in some local authority areas, the fee for a to be added to it. search for rate enquiries. The Queensland Law Society lays down Mr. Murray: He could also have to insure certain charges under which the solicitor with the building society's insurance com­ who is acting for the purchaser is able pany. to charge $140 in conveyancing fees on a home valued at $20,000. In addition, he is Mr. BURNS: That is right. He might also entitled to charge a fee of $41 on a $14,000 have to insure his life, his home, his future mortgage. and just about everything else. But he is up Mr. Hughes interjected. for $600 before he reaches the insurance company. Mr. BURNS: I do not know what the To my mind, conveyancing fees create Bill says; it has not yet been printed. a problem for the average man and woman. I am talking about conveyancing, which is They are too high because they are based clearly mentioned in the title of the Bill. on a sliding scale. The charge rises with I speak on this problem because it is very the price of the house, although the amount important. of work does not vary. It is exactly the Up to this stage, the purchaser is up for same. It must cost exactly the same to an extra $181. The solicitor acting for the convey a house, whether it is worth $10,000 building society also charges a fee on the or $40,000. However, a reference to the mortgage. According to this booklet, his fee Law Society's little book that I have in my is $121. On the purchase of a home through hand shows the conveyancing fees on a house a building society, which must be the most worth $40,000 are $229, and $106 on a common financial arrangement, the convey­ house worth $10,000. There is a difference of ancing fees have now reached $302. But the $123 simply because one house is more purchaser has not finished yet. In some cases expensive. No additional work is involved. the purchaser could be lucky because, if he In South Australia, where the legal pro­ went to one of a couple of building societies fession's monopoly on conveyancing has been which lay down that their solicitors charge broken, land brokers perform conveyanc­ only two-thirds of the fee, the conveyancing ing at a flat charge, which is 'lower than a fees would be reduced to $261. If a young solicitor's fees. There is nothing political couple have saved $6,000 and borrow in what ·I am now saying, for what is hap­ $14,000 and, as well, have to meet convey­ pening in South Australia today under a ancing fees, they would have no money Labor Government has been going on for left for furniture when they have met these many years, What I am advocating is the additional legal charges. It must be remem­ breaking of the legal profession's monopoly bered that conveyancing fees are a charge on conveyancing in this State. In South that appears suddenly out of the blue. It is a Australia, the documentation and searches sudden impost and burden on a purchaser. involved in transfer can be performed by Mr. Murray: Nobody warns him. land brokers, or by solicitors. There is no prohibition on solicitors doing this work; it Mr. BURNS: That is right. The advert­ can be done by land brokers or solicitors. isement says that the price of the home is $20,000, not that it is $20,000 plus solicitors' ·I am told that the main advantage of fees. the South Australian system is found in costs. An additional advantage is that the land Mr. Hughes: And they aren't allowed to broker is quicker than a solicitor in having do it for themselves. this work carried out. Of course, speed Mr. BURNS: That comes back to the of operation has never been one of the great features of the legal profession in question of conveyancing kits. Queensland. I have not finished yet. The purchaser still has to pay the outlays, the largest of Mr. Murray: They work on the principle, which is State Government stamp duty. I "This year, next year, some time, never." know what the rates used to be. I do not Mr. BURNS: That is right. know if they were increased in the recent Budget. To be quite truthful, I did not look The South Australian system had one at that part of the Budget. However, as I weakness in that real estate agents could will be shifting in the next few days I will have themselves appointed as land brokers, be able to know from personal experience too. This produced situations in which the just how much all these fees amount to. vendor also acted as agent for the purchaser, which reduced his commitment to the pur­ Mr. Murray: It is 1 t per cent. chaser to the extent that he could ignore 2384 Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973) Property Law Bill small irregularities in the vendor's title that What sort of good faith is that? It is a might affect the settlement. I think rather one-sided guarantee of good faith the right of real estate agents to be land when the purchaser is to lose his deposit brokers has recently been withdrawn in irrespective of what happens under the South Australia. In Queensland, in theory contract. the purchaser is still protected by a solicitor The contracts contain clauses providing acting on his behalf, but in practice the same that the purchaser shall obtain council per­ solicitor too often acts for both the pur­ mission within a certain period. If he does chaser and the vendor. The only possible not, either party can cancel the contract but advantage in this arrangement is speed, and, all the expenses of the contract are to be met by the purchaser. The vendor has as I have said, this is not a notable feature virtually no obligations under the contracts, of the legal profession. and these are property contracts, drawn up by the legal profession, which, for many Mr. Hughes: This is usually by arrange­ years, tie many young people, with most ment with both parties. of their savings, into home and land deals. Mr. BURNS: Not always. If one goes The particular builder to whom I am to a real estate agent, he will produce a referring says he will "use his best endeavours contract and say-- to ensure the due and punctual execution of the work". That is rather vague. Talk The CHAIRMAN: Order! I would be about fine print! It does not have to be pleased if the honourable member would in fine print; it can be in big print. One include the Chairman in the conversation. could drive a Queensland train through the loopholes in his contracts. Mr. BURNS: Yes, Mr. Lickiss. The stage I could go further, but I suggest that is reached at which the real estate agent unless we review the whole question of says to the prospective purchaser, "Have you contract forms, the tendency for contracts a solicitor?" Most young people have to be loaded against the purchaser will never had any dealings with solicitors, and increase according to a type of Parkinsonian they say, "No." The agent then says, "Well, fine-print law. I remind the Committee that act through ours," and they recommend a the fine-print-loaded contract traps many non­ certain solicitor. The solicitor earns the English-speaking-perhaps I should say "non­ conveyancing fees that he charges in his English-reading"-migrants, who are heavily capacity only as an independent interpreter disadvantaged by their lack of knowledge of of the fine print. Many solicitors live in the English language. the pockets of estate agents, and many of Mr. Murray: You are in good form those who act day in and day out for real tonight. estate agents may find their moral scruples influenced by a need to build up a business, Mr. BURNS: I think you must be in good and by their starving wives and children form. at home. Often the work of the big hous­ ing companies, and the interests of those Let me turn now to item 4 on the business who purchase houses from those companies, note, which refers to "conveyancing, property a11e handled by the same solicitors. and contract". I look with disgust on the type of contract that the Real Estate Institute Many builders and land developers have of Queensland is using for its multiple-listing a lengthy building contract heavily weighted service. It says, in essence, that the vendor in their favour and drawn up by their shall give a 60-day period of sole agency lawyers. Examples of such contracts are to the multiple-listing service or to the readily available. As a matter of fact, R.E.I.Q. "Board" and a greater crowd of I could bring some of them into this Cham­ crooks were never gathered together under the ber. People have from time to time one roof, other than in Boggo Road. It says approached me on such matters. As a matter that the vendor will pay commission "if the of fact, I have written to the Minister about said property is sold by the agent or any some of them. These contracts place the other agent or by the vendor himself". He onus to find finance clearly on the shoulders is the fellow who owns the house, and if of the buyer, although a clause does pro­ he sells the house himself he has to pay vide that the company may seek such finance the commission on the sale to the R.E.I.Q. for the owner. It "may", but it does not agent. That is the contract form they ask have to. The contract then reads, "Subject him to sign. to finance being found." If it is not, the purchaser forfeits his deposit. The CHAIRMAN: Order! I think the honourable member is dealing with a matter This clause then appears- that comes under another Act and is not incorporated in this Bill. ". . . which shall be treated by the parties hereto as a guarantee of good lVofr· BURNS: I am dealing with convey­ faith and shall not be refundable in the ancmg, property and contract, and I take that event of this contract failing to proceed to be a _contract concerning property and for any reason whatsover." conveyancmg. Property Law Bill [6 DECEMBER 1973] Real Property, &c., Bill 2385

The CHAIRMAN: Order! The honourable the front of the Bill have been prepared member is advised that that comes under a with some care. They cover quite a number separate piece of legislation and is not of pages, and from them honourable mem­ involved in this legislation. bers will know where to look in the proposed legislation for any particular matter of Mr. BURNS: Let me say to you, Mr. interest. The Bill covers a huge range of Lickiss, that the people who are dealing social arrangements and transactions in the in conveyancing of property and the people community, and I trust that honourable in the R.E.I.Q. who have used this form of members will give me the benefit of their contract and other systems to rob young comments so that we can prepare meaning­ people, to rob vendors of their commission, ful amendments to the Bill, should they be and to rob other agents who have sold the desired. The list of those who have already property, are writing contracts and using the commented on the draft legislation is fairly legal profession to produce contracts in an effort to make a quick dollar for themselves. formidable. Not all the suggestions made This is something we should not run away have been accepted, as no doubt honourable from. We should face up to it. members will discover. That is not to say that those matters should not be recon­ On the question of conveyancing, I say sidered by this Parliament, because ulti­ that if the Law Reform Commission, the mately the Parliament must take responsi­ Minister or anyone else is bringing Bills before bility for the legislation. Merely because Parliament to deal with conveyancing, 'let a suggestion has been made in the past them begin by doing something about the real two years and has been rejected is not to problem associated with conveyancing-the say that it should not be included when we additional charges with which young people, come to reconsider the Bill. One has to or, for that matter, old people, who are keep in mind that should there be any buying a home are slugged. We should look desirable amendments there may well be seriously at the question of land brokers. consequential amendments throughout the We should break the legal monopoly on legislation. conveyancing in this State. If we do that, we will be doing much more for young I propose to have a number of people in people buying homes than many of the Bills the community comment on the Bill, and that have come before this Assembly have I will get the benefit of their advice. In done for them. due course the Government parties will meet in the usual manner and discuss the Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister Bill in some detail. I have no doubt that for Justice) (11.9 p.m.), in reply: In the light there will be a number of amendments to of the views expressed, I think I should present to the Parliament in due course. make some comments in reply. I wish to say first that I am pleased that the work of I thank honourable members for their the Law Reform Commission has again been interest, and I trust that the Bill will receive recognised. The Bill is principaliy the work their earnest attention over the next few of Dr. Bruce McPherson. Even though other months. members of the commission have played their Motion (Mr. Knox) argeed to. part, Dr. McPherson was the main researcher and the gentleman who gave most time to Resolution reported. the preparation of the documents. I think it should be generally known that his dedica­ FIRST READING tion has made it possible for honourable Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. members to see the Bil'l earlier than otherwise Knox, read a first time. would have been the case. There are of course, enormous social consequences' involved in this legislation. REAL PROPERTY ACTS AMENDMENT One of the difficulties in presenting legisla­ BILL tion of a highly technical nature such as this INITIATION IN COMMITTEE is that possibly one can overlook the social consequences because one becomes involved (Mr. W. D. Hewitt, Chatsworth, in the chair) in all the legal jargon that surrounds the various social arrangements which have to Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister be formalised in legislation. Some of the for Justice) (11.16 p.m.): I move- social consequences have already been "That a Bill be introduced to amend the touched upon by the two speakers who have Real Property Act of 1861, as subse­ taken part in the debate. I think these quently amended, and the Real Property matters, along with many others, will be Act of 1877, as subsequently amended, of considerable concern to honourable mem­ each in certain particulars." bers when the Bill is discussed on a future Delays in the registration of transactions in occasion. the Titles Office have been subject, from time I do hope that honourable members will to time, to some adverse public criticism. give their attention to this le~isla~ion,, and Honourable members will be aware of the not be discouraged from readmg 1t s1mply tremendous increase in land dealings in because it has a long and involved title. recent times and will readily appreciate that The explanatory notes in the green pages on the principal cause of delay would be related 2386 Real Property Acts [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill

directly to the increased number of docu­ able to withdraw, of his own motion, docu­ ments lodged. This, however, is not the sole ments which are lodged in the incorrect cause. Experience has shown that a major sequence and lodge them in the correct contributing factor has been the number of sequence. documents lodged which, in the opinion of the Registrar of Titles, are erroneous, incom­ Another measure will allow the Registrar plete or defective. to issue separate certificates of title to ten­ ants in common only upon request and upon The present remedy in these cases is for payment of the requisite fee. the Registrar to issue a requisition to the person who lodged the document, or to his The Bill also contains provisions which solicitor, conveyancer, attorney or agent, to will allow a caveator to permit, with his have the deficiency corrected. The Registrar attested consent, the registration of a docu­ may refuse to deal with any document until ment which the caveat otherwise forbids, the requisition is complied with, but he has will permit the Commonwealth to take no power to reject the document. As an easements in gross, and will amend the adver­ estimated 50 per cent to 60 per cent of tising provisions of the Acts and a number documents freshly lodged are being requisi­ of other ancillary matters. tioned, the result is that the Registrar's Honourable members can be assured that office is cluttered with documents which the proposed amendments will not only cannot be dealt with. The main reason for remove a number of causes of delay in the many documents being requisitioned appears Titles Office, but will also speed up its oper­ to be the lack of attention and diligence of ations and simplify a number of procedures. lodgers in their preparation. I commend the Bill to the Committee. The principal aim of the Bill before the Committee is directed at this problem. It Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.20 p.m.): is considered essential that documents be The problems arising from delays in the correctly prepared so that this type of delay Titles Office have been raised by honourable is removed. In an endeavour to reach this members on numerous occasions and in many ideal situation, the Bill will give the Registrar ways. They have been raised by way of power to fix a time within which satisfaction questions to the Minister, by speeches, and by of a requisition is required after which the written representations to the Minister as document can be rejected and returned to well as to the various branches of the Titles the lodger. It is further proposed that Office throughout the State. As the honour­ where a document is rejected, the fees shall able member for Bundaberg has said, the be forfeited. However, if that document Opposition is very pleased to see that some­ is subsequently lodged the fees payable on thing is being done. that lodgment will be only half of the fees currently payable. In other words, when We are aware that this matter was under there is no subsequent lodgment all fees review by the Public Service Board and paid are forfeited but when there is a sub­ that recommendations were to be brought sequent lodgment the effect is that only half forward. Notice of this fact was given in the fees would be forfeited. The client is answer to questions asked in this Chamber. not to be penalised for any default in the The delays are caused mainly by the massive lodgment of documents and, in essence, number of documents filed. I am not quite failure to lodge properly prepared documents sure which honourable member asked the could result in penalties to the lodger. appropriate question but in answer we were The rejection provisions will enable the told that over the past year the number has Registrar to return documents at present increased by approximately 40 per cent. As held in his abeyance section and provide the Minister has said, the problem has been much needed space. I think the number aggravated by errors that should not have of documents is about 30,000. The Registrar happened. These errors have occurred in will also not be required to receive any documents lodged and are generally the document which, on the face of it, is not result of lack of knowledge on the part of capable of being registered. The increase solicitors and other persons who handle con­ in the number of documents, together with veyancing matters. the number of incorrect documents, has We should look carefully into these errors, brought about another problem in the Titles because I am concerned at the amount of Office. This is an imminent lack of filing money that people pay by way of con­ space, not only in that office but also in veyancing fees. Generally the work is done the archives. Although the measures I by the law clerks or semi-trained personnel have mentioned will substantially assist it in solicitors' offices. I realise, of course, that is not the complete answer. many mistakes are made in the real property A number of other space-saving as well descriptions given by agents involved in land as time-saving provisions are included in the sales, and that not all the requirements set Bill, the principal of these being to permit out in the statutes are met. the Registrar to destroy any folio or instru­ ment that does not evidence a subsisting It is unfortunate that not all real estate interest. On the aspect of time saving, it agents understand or appreciate the role is proposed that the Registrar be empowered that they are required to play. They fail to to correct patent errors. He will also be realise that their task is to act totally on Real Property Acts [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill 2387 behalf of the vendor and that they have Mr. WRIGHT: I support the idea of a the responsibility of ensuring that all dis­ time limit being imposed on the return of closures are made on his behalf. documents to the Titles Office. Perhaps the Many problems have arisen from the con­ Minister would care to explain whether he version to the metric system, but we must said that there would be a fine. take these matters in our stride. Of all the Mr. Knox: There would be a forfeiture problems, however, the greatest arises from of fees. the lodgement of incomplete or incorrect documents as well as from the total number involved. The Minister has said that these Mr. WRIGHT: That seems to be a very documents have to be sent back for re­ good idea. execution or correction. The Minister also said it was proposed to I suggest that the problem has been destroy some old files because of problems aggravated further by the lack of staff. I experienced by the Titles Office. In general have studied a number of the questions asked principle, we support that idea. by honourable members, and I notice that the honourable member for Toowoomba Mr. R. E. Moore: It took you a long time West asked certain questions and also put to get around to saying that. forward suggestions as to the creation of branches of the Titles Office throughout the Mr. WRIGHT: It is a wonder the hon­ State. The Minister has not referred to this ourable member gets around to saying any­ matter, but I sincerely hope that in due thing. He is asleep half the time. course a branch office will be opened in Toowoomba and another on the Gold Coast. I am very pleased that action is being While on the need for more offices, let us taken, and the Opposition supports the consider the filling of vacancies that presently principles outlined by the Minister. exist at Townsville and Rockhampton, as well as in Brisbane. Because of lack of staff, Mr. JENSEN (Bundaberg) '(11.26 p.m.): it is impossible for employees in the Titles I support this measure. As a member of Office to handle the vast number of docu­ Parliament I have dealings with a number of ments expeditiously. Obviously emphasis Government departments, but the Titles should be placed by the Minister on the Office is the main department with which I recruitment and training of officers to carry seem to be concerned. I congratulate Mr. out duties in the Titles Office, because I John Bennett and, as well, Mr. Bill Maddock, do not believe for one moment that there who has just retired. On every occasion will be any reduction in the number of that I have approached the Titles Office on documents lodged with the office. Careful consideration should be given to the ways behalf of a constituent, I have found that of recruiting officers to perform what I might a solicitor is at fault. Both the gentlemen term these semi-professional tasks. Let us to whom I have referred can verify my state­ look at the lack of staff together with the ment. When I asked Mr. Bennett to "do vacancies, and also the backlog that exists. over" the solicitors in Bundaberg, he wrote them a letter saying that it would not help The Minister has referred to the overtime them to approach the local member of that is required to be worked by the Titles Parliament but, if a case was urgent, they Office. I am led to believe that the Public should ring him up. Service Board has considered this matter. A large amount of overtime has been worked When people complain to me about land by the Titles Office staff, and it will not be dealings, they always blame the Titles Office. eliminated unless more trained officers are Last Monday morning, when a constituent appointed. told me that his application for a title deed was lodged in May last-if necessaory, I can Mr. Frawley: They want to work over­ prove what I am saying by referring to my time. notebook_;! said, "Is that so? Are you sure Mr. WRIGHT: I do not mind anyone the survey has been completed?" He replied, working overtime. However, on this point "It was lodged in August." I said, "Go back the honourable member is way out. to your solicitor, get the dealing number and the plan number, and come back to me. I Mr. Frawley: You wouldn't know how to will bet that your solicitor is wrong." He work. You couldn't even raise a sweat on said, "I may be able to come back to­ your brow. morrow." I said, "I leave for Brisbane tonight. If it is very urgent come back this Mr. WRIGHT: I am beginning to under­ afternoon." He came back to the office and stand why the honourable member for Mm­ left a note on my table. I said to my secre­ rumba is described as "Dangerous Desley". tary, "Look at that! I 'cop' this all along the line." The application was lodged on 5 The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. W. November. Immediately after I spoke to my D. Hewitt): Order! The honourable member secretary the gentleman came back to my will continue with his speech. office to apologise. I said to him, "I told 2388 Real Property Acts [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill

you earlier that your solicitor had not I can relate one case in which the Woon­ handled this matter properly, yet you expect garra Shire Council sold land to three people. me to "do over" the Titles Office." Their solicitors wrote to me and the people came to see me. I contacted Mr. Bill Mr. R. E. Moore: If you had obtained the Maddock. These cases had been held up in dealing number, you could have solved the the Titles Office for months because some matter in a few minutes. officers there did not know that regulations were promulgated years ago cancelling the Mr. JENSEN: I have just said that I told deeds and that new ones had to be issued. the man to get the dealing number or the It was only because Mr. Maddock had plan numbe'L The only information he got been there long enough to know that this fmm the solicitor was that it was lodged had happened that anything was done. A on 5 November. young chap with five years' experience would Mr. R. E. Moore: I am on your side now. not have known anything about it. This I did not hear you say that. has been going on for months. Some­ one had these documents on his desk and Mr. JENSEN: If the honourable member did not know what to do with them. He wants to stay here, I can speak on this was not game to go to the boss, which he matter all night. should have done. Mr. Maddock issued new deeds the week I rang him. The \Voongarra The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. Shire Clerk should have known this from W. D. Hewitt): Order! I have news for the his records. honourable member. He may not speak on it Mr. Murray: There is another point. all night. It is half past 11. Mr. JENSEN: I would if you would allow me to, Mr. Hewitt. The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. W. D. Hewitt): Order! The honourable It is about time the Minister put some member will proceed with his speech. solicitors in their place. I do not believe that conveyancing is difficult. I would like Mr. JENSEN: I will keep them here. They to take a course in it, there must be a lot of keep me here many a night. I want to speak money in it. When this man told me that he some common sense. If you people over had paid the solicitor $32, I said, "He there-- lodged the application on 5 November and told you that the Titles Office was holding The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! it up. You wanted me to take this matter The honourable gentleman will proceed with up with the Titles Office when your solicitor his speech. held it up for three months." It is about time the Minister did something about this Mr. JENSEN: Most of the problems I sort of thing. He has two officers who are have had with Titles Office and Public Cur­ trying to handle 50,000 documents a year. ator Office matters have been the result of That is more than 1,000 a week. In addition, solicitors not knowing their job. I do not there are the requisitions and letters that mind "doing over" any Government depart­ aTe sent out. I was told that 60 per cent of ment if it is not doing its job. As I have the documents have to be returned with often said, I worked in the Government requisitions. As far as I am concerned it is for 13 years. I know there are bludgers in 100 per cent, because in every case I have the Government just as there are in any other checked a requisition has had to be sent out. industry. The Minister has done the best thing he could to straighten out some of the solicitors As I said, all these problems have been who cannot do conveyancing. caused by solicitors, and it is time something was done about them. They are robbing The honourable member for Rockhampton people hand over fist, every way they can. spoke about training staff. Everybody wants a Titles Office branch established in his city. Solicitors tell people that the Titles Office I have asked for one in Bundaberg, and I is holding things up. I say to them, "Get have spoken to Mr. Bennett about it. He your plan number, and I will tell you what told me it was impossible to get staff in is holding it up." In every case, it has the Brisbane office and that it is difficult to been a requisition. I have to ring John Ben­ train staff. He said that if a branch was nett tomorrow. I would not like to ask him established in each city, the work would only to do something that has been outstanding get further behind. I agree with him; I can for a month. However, he would do it for see his point. Until the Brisbane office me. In fact, he would do anything for me, catches up on its work, more branches can­ because I am fair and I like to do the not be established in other cities. I have right thing by people. asked for both a Titles Office branch and a Public Curator Office branch in Bunda­ I want to mention what causes some of berg. We have a clerk of the court who these delays. They are caused by the "land is supposed to handle these matters, but he sharks". They open up land and sell it, has plenty of other work to do. and they tell the purchasers they can get Real Property Acts (6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill 2389 their deeds within three or six months. Some­ The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN (Mr. times the subdivision has not even been W. D. Hewitt): Order! I can assure the approved by the council or the Irrigation and honourable member that I know the rules Water Supply Commission. Their solicitor dealing with tedious repetition. He will break tells them that the whole transaction is held new ground, or I shatl cut his speech short. up in the Titles Office. When I look into Mr. JENSEN: I was waiting for that, Mr. matters such as these, I often find that the Hewitt. I will sit down. subdivision has not even received council approval. Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister for Justice) (11.39 p.m.), in reply: I thank hon­ Estate agents-! call them "land sharks"­ ourable members for their comments on open up land and tell buyers that they will officers of the Titles Office. They are very get their deeds within three to six months dedicated public servants who work long hours when they know it is not possible for them at a very exacting task. With the thousands to get them for 18 months. People who of documents that pass through the office, have purchased under these arrangements it can be understood that the staff, particu­ come to me and say they have been promised larly the senior officers, have great responsi­ the deeds, and that the bank will advance bilities. It is true, unfortunately, that they the finance but will not make it available have been blamed for many mistakes and till they have the deeds. I then find that the errors that are not necessarily theirs. Occa­ subdivision has not even been approved by sionally, of course, some are, but the great the council for sewerage, water supply or bulk of the delays that result from requisi­ channelling. I then have to ring the estate tions cannot be laid at the door of the Titles agent and tell him, "If you do this sort of Office. thing any more, I'll put it in the newspaper. I'll say what I think of you in the paper." Mr. Jen~n: Documents not signed. In my opinion, that is the only way a Mr. KNOX: If these matters are investi­ politician can cope with this problem. He gated, it is seen that an enormous amount ha'i to stand up to these "land sharks", estate of human error is involved, and I defy any agents and solicitors. I know that some hon­ member of the Committee, including the ourable members opposite are not game to honourable member for Bundaberg, to con­ do that, because they are in league with these sistently produce documents without an error. people. They are in the land game, and they Many documents contain only minor errors, can get away with this sort of thing. But but the Registrar cannot correct them because I have to take the brunt of the problems the law does not allow him to do so. One of my constituents, and I also have to support of the amendments I am now proposing is Government departments. I do not mind that the Registrar and the Deputy Registrars supporting public servants when they are in be given the opportunity of correcting minor the right. I have to support the Titles Office, errors in the documents. because I have not yet encountered a case Mr. Jensen: The Registrar had to go to in which it could be blamed for delays. The the bank for me and get a duplicate of only exception was a matter involving the the mortgage because the bank had delayed Woongarra Shire Council. I ring every week it. The solicitor should have done that, or fortnight on various matters, and only but the Registrar had to do it. one matter had been held up-the Woongarra shire matter-simply because some officer Mr. KNOX: I do not think we should would not go and see his boss. blame even the solicitors for all the errors. Although errors occur, they can be expected I have been told that I have to wind up my to occur. The deficiency has been that speech, but I want to teU the Minister that there is no simple method of correcting his officers are trying to do the right thing them and a tedious process has had to be by me. They have got in touch with followed, and I am trying to eliminate that solicitors in Bundaberg. It is the Minister's tedious process. place to protect his officers, and to get in touch with solicitors and get them to train Mr. Murray: The only human error we their conveyancing clerks. The Minister could have at the moment is the honourable mem­ confirm that, with 60 per cent of documents ber for Bundaberg. lodged, requisitions have to be issued. Each Mr. KNOX: That is something over which year 40,000 letters are received. we have no control. I do not wish to add anything further, Mr. Hewitt. Mr. R. E. Moore: Why don't you write a letter and sit down? Motion (Mr. Knox) agreed to. Resolution reported. Mr. JENSEN: If the honourable member wants to keep me going, I can do so for a long time. I have had a lot of experience in FIRST READING four years in these matters, and I just love Bill presented and, on motion of Mr. taking solicitors and "land sharks" apart. Knox, read a first time. 2390 Liquor Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill

LIQUOR ACT AMENDMENT BILL after any mortgage debt has been discharged, and the inheritance of the covenant by an INITIATION IN COMMITTEE incoming licensee who owes nothing to the (The Chairman of Committees, Mr. Lickiss, brewery or spirit merchant. Mt. Coot-tha, in the chair) Under this Bill it will not be possible to tie up the licensed premises in respect Hon. W. E. KNOX (Nundah-Minister of wines, spirits or packaged beer; nor will for Justice) (11.44 p.m.): I move- it be possible in respect of draught beer 'That a Bill be introduced to amend unless the brewery or spirit merchant retains the Liquor Act 1912-1972 in certain par­ a proprietary interest in the licensed pre­ ticulars." mises, or the owner or licensee is indebted to the brewer or spirit merchant under a Since the amendment to the Liquor Act in mortgage in respect of the licensed premises. 1970 and the small amendments in December 1972, submissions have been received from Packaged beer has been defined as beer various bodies and associations of persons that is supplied in sealed bottles, cans or requesting that further amendments be made like containers, and does not include draught to the Act. These submissions have been beer stored in a cask, barrel, keg or like carefully examined and considered. This container in which bulk beer is stored. Bill will give effect to those suggested amend­ Trading in relation to bowling and golf ments which are considered to be desirable clubs will be allowed to 8 p.m. seven days in the interests of the community. a week. The present hours of trading are The Bill provides for a commission con­ 10 a.m. to 7 p.m. Power is given to the sisting of five members, one of whom is Licensing Court on the recommendation of to be the executive officer of the Licensing the commission for these hours to be Commission, such person being the sub­ restricted to 7 p.m. only, if there is found department head. It also sets up a Licensing to be a nuisance caused by noise etc., either Court consisting of one District Court judge. from the licensed premises themselves or from the environs of such premises, for The new commission will be set up to example, car parks. handle purely administrative matters and to Permits for functions of licensed bowling carry out the requirements of the Licensing clubs or licensed golf clubs or of a member Court. The commission will deal with of such club for late trading after 8 p.m. ordinary applications such as transfer of to 12 midnight are increased from 26 per licences, granting of permits etc., and will calendar year to 52. make recommendations to the court on other matters. Provision is made in the Bill to allow a casual visitor playing at a golf course or The Bill sets out the procedure to be bowls club, who pays a fee normally charged followed by both the Licensing Court and for such privilege, to consume liquor at the Licensing Commission. such club. The Liquor Act provides that the only persons to whom liquor may be Local option polls are to be abolished. sold or supplied at bowling and golf clubs The results of these polls conducted over are members of the club, members of another recent years have indicated that public bowling or golf club, and the guests of a opinion is in favour of the hotel placements member. The casual visitor who particul­ proposed, and "Yes" votes have been car­ larly frequents golf clubs cannot lawfully, ried in each poll conducted. In fact, since at present, obtain liquor. 1958, when the local option provisions were re-introduced, only one "No" vote has been Trading in respect of licences held by carried. registered clubs, ex-servicemen's clubs, workers' clubs and principal sporting clubs In view of the proposed set-up of the will be allowed on Sundays similar to the Licensing Court and the Licensing Commis­ other days of the week, that is, 10 a.m. sion, any objector will be able to put for­ to 10 p.m., or as varied by the Licensing ward his case in writing to the commission Court. Power is given to the Licensing itself and then by an appearance before the Court on the recommendation of the com­ Licensing Court. mission for these hours to be restricted to 7 p.m. only, if there is found to be a The lawful age for the sale, supply and nuisance caused by noise, etc., either from consumption of liquor in all licensed pre­ the licensed premises themselves or from mises will be reduced from 21 years to 18 the environs of such premises. years. This will also apply to membership of licensed clubs. The Liquor Act is to be amended so as to permit associate membership of ex-ser­ A source of complaint by both :icensed vicemen's clubs to brothers, sisters and victuallers and the public is the tied-house spouses of a serviceman, ex-serviceman or system, under which licensed premises are member of the permanent forces. Associate by covenant bound to either breweries or membership presently is confined to the wife, spirit merchants for an extraordinary length father, mother, son or daughter of a ser­ of time. In this system at present is the viceman, ex-serviceman or member of the tying up of the premises for many years permanent forces. Liquor Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill 2391

The present provisions and character in Mr. WRIGHT (Rockhampton) (11.52 relation to bistro licences is to be changed. p.m.): It is a great pity that such an Provision is made in the Bill for bistro important piece of legislation has been licences to apply to establishments provid­ brought on at 8 minutes to midnight. I ing meals and to allow the sale, supply and believe many members on both sides of this consumption of Australian wine only. Pre­ Chamber want to speak at length on the sent legislation provides for the Licensing recommendations and the prowsions the Commission to grant a bistro licence where Minister is bringing forward. It always an application for a restaurant licence has amazes me that amendments of the Liquor been made in respect of premises providing Act seem to be cast in this image of being a speciality in either food or drink. Actu­ far-seeing. I think it is time we had a darn ally, there is no difference, at the present good look at the way we approach liquor time, as to whether a restaurant licence or laws in thlis State. bistro licence is granted to the applicant. Mr. B. Wood: It is the most amended A new type of licence is to be introduced, Act we have. namely, a vigneron's licence, so as to allow the sale and supply of wine produced on the Mr. WRIGHT: It certainly is. I think premises and made from fruit grown in too much emphasis has been piaced on Australia. The Bill will allow the sale of alcohol in the community. I think we are wine in single bottles. The present le~sla­ over emphasising the role that alcohol plays, tion allows the Licensing Commission to and its importance, in the community. We grant a permit for the sale of wine produced see nothling but high-pressure tactics used from fruit grown in Australia in quantities by the producers of these beverages, and this of not less than two gallons at a time. In pressure is getting harder and harder. When order to foster this !industry, it is desired the Minister speaks about groups that that a sale by single bottle be allowed. approach him or oome forward with recom­ Provision is made to extend theatre mendations, I think we can isolate these licences to allow the sale, supply and con­ mainly as breweries. sumption of liquor in properly set up Mr. Knox: That is not true. lounges attached to cinemas. The legislation will ensure that these premises satisfy proper standards of design and that the liquor Mr. WRIGHT: I can understand clubs lounge is lin a position on the premises such as the bowls groups and golf clubs which is not readily accessible to persons wanting extended hours, and I would agree who are not attending the performance. with this. But I think the main pressure does come from the manufacturers, and we know The legislation will allow the sale, supply why. They have some very real !interests in and consumption of liquor one hour before this. any performance and one hour thereafter and also at intervals, but will not provide We seem to be pushing the idea that liquor for liquor to be sold, supplied or consumed should be part of our social, business and prio-r to 10 a.m. Presently, the legislamon domestic life. Society has been gradually provides for the grant of theatre licences conditioned to the view that liquor is very only in respect of "live" theatres such as important to us. Every liquor advertisement S.G.I.O. Theatre and Twelfth Night Theatre. we see depicts young people holding a glass of liquor or beer. This seems to be part of The more important of the other amend­ the sporting and every other world. We see ments concern:- athletes like some members of this Chamber ( a) Ball permits; profess to be, whether well-known golfers or stars in other sports, who, because of (b) Trading hours in cocktail bars in hotels; their sporting prowess, seem to be able to make a lot of money by promoting liquor in (c) Public notification of all licence advertisements. applicatlions; I think it is a great pity because too often (d) Record of convictions and payment we forget the problems that alcohol has of fees; brought to this natlion of ours, and, indeed, (e) Licensees' obligations to sell drinks; to the world. Too often we forget the (f) Repeal of the section providing for carnage on the road, and the loss of life international-class hotels; and limb. Too often we forget the loss of work output and production which is costing (g) Repeal of the provision relating to our nation millions upon millions of dollars. renewal of licences; We seem to say, "No, these are far-seeing, (h) Tender for licences by breweries; far-reaching ideas that must be implemented." (i) Caterer's licences; I wonder how many homes in this State have been destroyed because of the over-use (j) Historic inns; and and abuse of alcohol. I wonder how many (k) Seafarer's canteen. family units have been disrupted, and how many husbands have left their wives and I commend the motion to the Committee. families because they have become alcoholics. 2392 Liquor Act [6 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill

I wonder what would be the cost to this life generally. We are giving consideration State of the care that has to be given to to noise, traffic hazards and the destruction alcoholics, and the pensions and financial of our environment. I am completely sur­ assistance that must be given by way of prised, therefore, to learn that this far­ rehabilitation and maintenance for those seeing Minister, for whom I have high who have been injured as a result of this respect and whom I have commended for problem. the introduction of far-reaching amendments, Mr. B. Wood: Wouldn't it have been should condone the removal of local option practical to amend the Traffic Act at the polls, in other words, the voice of the same time? people, in this very important matter. Mr. WRIGHT: It certainly would have I realise, of course, that the provisions been. Undoubtedly, the pressure has been relating to local option polls are at this exerted by the breweries. In view of the present time totally unsuitable. For example, massive profits made each year by them, we the three-mile limit is ridiculous. People who can well understand the reason for this. Of have nothing whatever to do with the siting course, from time to time, certain persons of a hotel are required to vote on it. claim that the breweries make a fantastic Unnecessary cost is involved in local option contribution to sport. But such a contribu­ polls and, as well, some of the campaigns tion does not offset the mal-effects. that are waged either for or against the proposals are, to say the least, distasteful. Mr. F. P. Moore: They contribute a lot But in spite of all this, the local option to the slush funds of the Government, too. poll must be retained. Whether or not it is retained in an amended form, such as I Mr. WRIGHT: I take the honourable will be proposing, we cannot depart from !lle~ber's interjecti~n. Both directly and the principle of giving the people a right mdtrectly the brewenes of this nation employ to say what will happen and what type of approximately 15,000 people. They also use liquor business will be established in their huge quantities of agricultural products. For localities. example, in 1969-70 they consumed nearly $30,000,000 worth. Moreover they are a As I say, the three-mile limit is ridiculous. source of income to the Commonwealth Some time ago I debated with the Minister Government, which this year expects to what was meant by the term "neighbour­ receive the vast sum of $416,000,000 by way hood" in relation to the transfer of a liquor of beer excise duties. Last year the sum licence. The Licensing Commission does not was $339,000,000. These facts can be used seem to have any trouble in defining a as a n:easure to gauge. the role that liquor neighbourhood, so I suggest that the same plays m our commumty. In the light of type of term should be used in relation to the sums collected by way of beer excise the siting of a hotel. Why not let the com­ duty, it is not difficult to imagine the huge mission designate a neighbourhood and define profits that are being earned by the breweries. very clearly the area that will be affected by the siting of a hotel? I cannot see any There is nothing wrong with liquor itself. reason why this cannot be done. It would Like the gun, it is harmless until it is certainly do away with the ridiculous situa­ used or abused. People will claim that there tion in which people who reside three miles is a time and place for the consumption of from the proposed site are required to vote liquor. Perhaps some honourable members in relation to a hotel that they will neither hold more liberal views than others. Our drive past nor drink at. main concern, however, seems to revolve around when and where liquor should be We should go further into this and stipul­ consumed. Tonight we are concerning our­ ate the exact site of the proposed hotel, selves with by whom it should be con­ because too often people are told "A hotel sumed. It is our right to be interested is to be built in your area," but are not in these areas, more so when it comes to jud­ told exactly where it is to be. The Leader ing. the effect of liquor on the community. of the Opposition told me that one hotel Whtlst we could leave to this Assembly which was to be sited in a certain place was the questions of when and by whom, we built within 100 yards of people who did should not leave to it the question of not vote in the local option poll. People where. Because we, as an Assembly, rep­ should know exactly where a hotel is to go. resent all the people of Queensland we can They should be told that it will create well decide the issues of "when" and "by undue noise and, that it will have some bad whom," but we should leave to them the effects on the environment. If we are question of where liquor should be con­ worried about the costs of local option sumed. polls or people voting who should not do so, let us use the postal voting system. I am amazed to learn that the Minister In that way there would be no problem, is introducing a provision to remove local because only people living in the defined option polls. I am simply astounded by neighbourhood would be able to vote. They this. In discussing the matter of where liquor would be the only ones to receive a postal should be consumed, we are examining its vote. I stress that people should have a intrusion into the home life and community say. Liquor Act [6 & 7 DECEMBER 1973] Amendment Bill 2393

I accept the idea of lowering the drinking age to 18, mainly because under-age drinking is very prevalent. As members of Parlia­ ment we often go into hotels to talk with our friends or have a drink. But how many honourable members could honestly say that they have not seen an under-age drinker? I have seen girls drinking in hotels not far from Parliament House, not 21-year-olds, but 13 to 15-year-olds. This has been hap­ pening for years. I think most honourable members agree that we should lower the drinking age, but let us be sure that the age limit is policed. Drinkers often walk out of a hotel and get into a car believing that they are the best and fastest drivers in the nation, and thus continue the havoc on our roads. I agree with the proposal to break the tied-house system. It is ridiculous to say that a hotel is a Carlton hotel or a Fourex hotel. This restrictive trade practice should not have been permitted, but it has been in vogue for years. I am very pleased that something has been done about it, but I wonder if we are going far enough. Why should only beer in bottles and cans be sold? This is another matter that we will certainly examine when the Bill is printed. Mr. Tucker: That will not break the tie completely.

Mr. WRIGHT: No. We have changed drinking hours in race clubs, cricket clubs, golf clubs, and so on. I do not think that affects anyone, because minors do not frequent these places. I do not think society generally will be affected. In the circumstances, we should have per­ mits covering longer trading hours. I accept the idea of selling wines from vineyards, but, as a responsible Assembly, how can we condone the new idea of allow­ ing liquor to be sold at cinemas? I doubt that one honourable member was ever asked about having liquor in cinemas until notice of this intention appeared in the Press. We are talking now about picture theatres to which we send our children for Saturday matinees. This seems to come within the realm of the Minister for Local Government, yet we are to allow liquor in these places. I could understand liquor being sold in a live theatre, which attracts a different type of clientele. The sale of liquor in cinemas is disgusting, ridiculous and unnecessary, and it has never been asked for. It is sympto­ matic, however, of the pressure applied by the breweries. The way we are going, we might as well have beer dispensers at every bus stop, because that is virtually what is happening in society now.