John Cavanaugh Interviewer: Joseph E
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John Cavanaugh Oral History Interview—3/27/1966 Administrative Information Creator: John Cavanaugh Interviewer: Joseph E. O’Connor Date of Interview: March 27, 1966 Place of Interview: South Bend, Indiana Length: 21 pages Biographical Note Cavanaugh was a Kennedy family friend who was a Roman Catholic priest and served as vice president (1940-1946), later president (1946-1952) of University of Notre Dame and director of the Notre Dame Foundation (1952-1959). In this interview Cavanaugh discusses his friendship with the Kennedy family; John F. Kennedy (JFK), Robert F. Kennedy, and Edward M. Kennedy’s personalities; and JFK’s assassination, among other issues. Access Open. Usage Restrictions According to the deed of gift signed September 17, 1969, copyright of these materials has been assigned to United States Government. Users of these materials are advised to determine the copyright status of any document from which they wish to publish. 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Transcript of Oral History Interview These electronic documents were created from transcripts available in the research room of the John F. Kennedy Library. The transcripts were scanned using optical character recognition and the resulting text files were proofread against the original transcripts. Some formatting changes were made. Page numbers are noted where they would have occurred at the bottoms of the pages of the original transcripts. If researchers have any concerns about accuracy, they are encouraged to visit the Library and consult the transcripts and the interview recordings. Suggested Citation John Cavanaugh, recorded interview by Joseph E. O’Connor, March 27, 1966, (page number), John F. Kennedy Library Oral History Program. John Cavanaugh Table of Contents Page Topic 2 Spending time with the Kennedy family 6 John F., Robert F., and Edward M. Kennedy’s personalities and characters 11 John F. Kennedy’s (JFK) Catholicism 13 JFK’s entry into politics and political views 17 Profiles in Courage 18 JFK’s assassination Oral History Interview with Father John Cavanaugh March 27, 1966 South Bend, Indiana Holy Cross House, Notre Dame By Joseph E. O’Connor For the John F. Kennedy Library O’CONNOR: Father Cavanaugh, what were your first contacts with the Kennedy family? CAVANAUGH: Well, my first contacts with the Kennedy family obviously were through Ambassador Kennedy [Joseph P. Kennedy, Sr.] when he was a member of our Board of Lay Trustees here at the university. That would be, I suppose, about twenty years ago, especially when I first knew him and his family, either at their home at Palm Beach or at their home on the Cape, about twenty years ago. It was somewhat earlier than this if you think about my relationships to him. O’CONNOR: Well, when did you first get to meet him, as early as…. CAVANAUGH: He was on our board, and I became president in 1946, which is twenty years ago. And I was vice president for six years prior to this. So that I would imagine it was probably three or four years before ‘46 that I got to know him. O’CONNOR: Well, how often did you keep contact with him? [-1-] CAVANAUGH: After ‘46, well, the contacts were casual, besides the times we came together twice yearly at our trustees’ meetings. I went to see the Ambassador and his family on invitation from him maybe for a week or two weeks or more—never, I think, more than two weeks at a time. When I was in Florida or up at the Cape, usually at the Cape, it was a matter of four or five days. In Florida it was maybe a week, ten days. That would be practically every year maybe a couple of times. Then I was his guest over in France for three summers, for a month each summer. O’CONNOR: You must have gotten to know the family pretty well then, at least through the father you must have had quite frequent contacts with the other members of the family? CAVANAUGH: That’s right. And I also knew them individually apart from this. I knew Eunice [Eunice Kennedy Shriver], for example, when she and Sarge [R. Sargent Shriver, Jr.] were living in Chicago. For a couple of years we had discussion groups in their home, and they had invited in some friends of theirs, and we would discuss certain problems that we, a week before, would read about. We’d all have the same material, and we would get together and discuss it. They were wonderful, interesting evenings. I remember I was going on the same plane one time with Eunice to the Cape. One of the first things I recall was a conversation on the way from Boston. She asked me if I ever played tennis. I play a little tennis, you know. So I said, “Oh yes, I play some tennis.” And I thought she was a girl that would be capable, as most girls are, of playing tennis so that it would be easy for me, as little as I played it. When we reached their home at the Cape, I happened to have a room overlooking their tennis court. And I looked out there, and I saw her and Bobby [Robert F. Kennedy]—the two of them were like professionals warming up. So I never found myself able to get on the tennis court. I was afraid and ashamed to play any of them. The girls were unbelievable in tennis and golf. Two of them one time, Jean [Jean Kennedy Smith] and Pat [Patricia Kennedy Lawford], were guests of a friend of mine at Westchester Country Club. And I called and told him that [-2-] they were going to come and play golf with us, and he arranged this. And he had put them up in the men’s section of the Westchester Country Club because “Jean” and “Pat” he thought were boys. Then I exploded, “They’re not boys!” When we got to the country club I said, “These are girls; don’t you have any place for them? My Lord!” So he went over, and he arranged for them in the ladies session. “Are we going to have to play with a couple of girls?” he asked. “Well, yes,” I told him, and I think you’ll enjoy it.” I had Pat as partner, and he took Jean. We tossed up, you know, to see who was to hit off first, and I think my partner hit first. She laid it out there two hundred and fifteen yards, right straight down the fairway. (They do this, both of them). Jean and Pat would play about equally. Pat’s second shot is just as good. He played about a hundred and five, slicing, hooking, dubbing like me, and he felt sick. You know, when you think that you’re much better than someone, and you begin to look at them, and they can play any game of this type: golf, tennis, any game I’ve ever seen. They play pretty near perfectly. O’CONNOR: Can you give us any general characteristics of the family? Can you generalize about the family at all from what you knew? I’ve heard people talk about the family loyalty. CAVANAUGH: I think one of the great advantages of their family to me has always been that they have scrimmaged many times many of the important questions that they discuss outside of their family in public, and therefore, they have the advantage of hearing many other fine minds treat the same problem. This is not like an isolated person, a person brought up alone and is a scholar, who keeps by himself and never enters into any kind of dialogue—we’re using this word a lot now—he has the disadvantage of all of a sudden confronting someone who knows a great deal about this problem too, maybe more than he does. He’s never heard this other, or he never has heard an ingenious person confront his attitude or his impression. [-3-] O’CONNOR: They scrimmage these questions within the family? CAVANAUGH: They scrimmage them, not only within the family but they had always…. For the most part their companions were thinking people. They were people whom I would say had extraordinarily good characters. Most of the evenings I was in their homes they would sit around on the floor and talk about questions rather than go to some place, you know, where they would have dinner, or where they would see a show at a night club.(I suppose they went out to dinner, but for the most part when I saw them, at the Cape, they were spending the evening together). They were great for getting people into these dialogues. And this was a tremendous advantage as they grew up, and as they got older and older, a lot of these questions were “old hat” to them.