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I I Jennie: Since we're so limited for time I Organize and Win. One of my favorite ing gay. And then, they're transferred into thought maybe you should just say what's slogans is "Build to Win," which is a slogan some kind of medical facility where they're on your mirid. from the Black Liberation Army. They have isolated and left to die. always had a perspective that really is about Linda: One thing that's real important to me victory. It's really important that the gay Political - number one - I love GCN. I'm so glad liberation movement has taken that on in Susan Rosenberg spent almost two years you have a prisoners' program. I've gotten such a serious way - that winning is what in the Lexington High Security Unit - a • the newspaper almost since I was busted we really want to do, not just make a protest state-of-the-art behavior modification prIsoners; and, of course, I'd followed it before then, or make reforms. women's prison which was closed last year but it's really important; and I've always when ajudge ruled the conditions there were spread it around. There are all kinds of les­ Jennie: You have emphasized the impor­ unacceptable. I was struck by the obvious bians on my floor that love to read it. We all tance of how people experience their daily toll that experience had taken on her, which and really appreciate it. lives, could you talk about conditions here, doesn't come through fully when the inter­ One of the things I've felt was important your experience as a dyke .... view is rendered in print. about our case is that four of us are women, Susan was also required to conduct the in­ and it means something that women have Linda: One thing I'd like to talk about is terview in chains. Her sentence is 58 years. lesbian been indicted for fighting the government. AIDS. In prison the effect of AIDS is And two of us are out lesbians. Both Laura devastating. The way I've encountered it Susan: I just want to tell you I love your and I - from the beginning of being busted was in Pleasanton [Federal Penitentiary) paper (GCN). I've been reading it for two resist- - have made that very plain in all of our where Laura and I worked together. We had years, and I like it better than probably 90 public statements, and in all of the literature made a decision [to refuse to be tested for percent of the papers I read. It would be that we put out about the case. We have HIV antibodies.) We felt it was worth going good for your readers to understand that as worked in the gay and lesbian community as to the hole [isolation) over, and [we knew we a group of people and as a case we're com­ ance well as around women's issues in the faced) possibly not even getting out of the pletely dedicated to gay and lesbian libera­ women's liberation movement for years and hole. A lot of times what they'll do is just tion. All of us. And it's part of who we are years, and to us this is very connected to why keep you there until you actually do the test. and our politics. But in terms of the most ex­ we consider ourselves anti-imperialists and Other prisoners were also [resisting the test). plicit identification I feel like Linda's has •An interview are willing to fight to change the govern­ But the outcome of the testing is what's been the longest and clearest and out the . ment as a whole. really insidious, because ·people are being most. And she suffers the most as a result of with Linda I ·consider myself a revolutionary, trying denied parole - they're being denied it. to change things fundamentally. So I feel release. They're being kept in prison to die, like it's important for me as a lesbian to talk instead of being released into the communi­ Jennie: I know one of the things people Evans, Laura to other women and other lesbians about ty. And one of the things about having would be very interested to hear about is the why it is that we need such fundamental AIDS in prison is that it is a death sentence, experience you had at Lexington. I don't Whitehorn changes. Why I don't think that reforming because there's no treatment. I mean on the know if that's something you're interested the educational system, or welfare pro­ street it's hard enough to struggle for alter­ in talking about... grams, or even people's consciousness is go­ native treatments, to try to get the FDA to and Susan ing to be enough. The kind of oppression release the treatments that are available, to Susan: Yes, I did want to talk about Lex­ that we face, as women and as dykes, is so be able to have any kind of control over ington, though I'm certainly getting tired of Rosenberg basic to how the system runs. [Until we your own situation. talking about Lexington. How can I talk restructure our whole society) we're never But in prison, you're immediately about it in a few minutes? Lexington really going to have a chance for equality, much isolated, so you have none of the human was an experiment in psychological torture less liberation, much less [the ability) to really contact that relieves stress and that helps by the U.S. government against women po­ maximize our potential as human beings - you have a positive attitude - which is a lot litical prisoners. The kind of forces in our to live freely with other women, and not be of what it takes to fight anything like tha( government that were responsible for Lex­ By Jennie McKnight beat up, all the stuff that everybody that And you have no treatment at all. You're ington are the very forces that have brought aura Whitehorn, Susan Rosenberg, reads GCN is so familiar with in our daily basically isolated and left to die. And I think this case. I would call them "counter-insur­ and Linda Evans are three of six lives. you probably die quicker. And your life is gency forces" - elements in the govern­ Lpolitical activists being held in the D. C. It's important for people who feel that absolutely miserable. [People with AIDS in ment that want to teach a lesson. jail on charges of conspiracy "to oppose, they can come out to come out pUblicly. I prison) have no programs and no hope. Lexington was an experiment, and it obstruct or change the foreign and domestic love National Coming Out Day. didn't work, in the sense that I think people policies of the U.S. government through Jennie: How about AIDS education efforts? in the U.S. who have some growing violent or illegal means. " They are specifi­ Jennie: It's today. consciousness around human rights really · cally charged with aiding and abetting the Linda: There's nothing. There is nothing. struggled to expose it. The government bombing of a number of military/govern­ Linda: It is today! I think it's real important. The sole piece of education that's done in didn't want to pursue it in quite as blatant a ment buildings, resulting in property And everybody can't do it because of the the federal system is a video that is com­ fashion, because it was so clear what it was. damage but no injuries. Although their case kind of oppression that we .run into over and pletely inadequate. I mean, I know some The thing is that it's been done in has not received much attention from the over again. But for those of us who feel things about AIDS from just being part of JTl80y countries aU over the W'orld for Dlany ,.,ainstream oress. they are well-known strong enough, who have the kind of sup- the movement - even though I'm in prison years and there have been other forms of Laura and Linda are lesbians who have ............. _ .... .......... - --- ,J been active in the lesbian/gay and women's Jennie: Do you have any thoughts about the clean a needle. They won't teach ·people how got set back [when· the umt was CIOSCO.J movements. And along with Susan, they civil disobedience action to protest the lack to clean works. Bleach you can't even get. have acted in support of Puerto Rican in­ of AIDS treatments that happened at the So forget anything about sex education or Jennie: Maybe you could talk a little bit dependence and Black liberation, among Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to­ anything about safe sex, because they just about the specific conditions - how they other issues. I interviewed them in the D. C. day and the new kind of militant AIDS ac­ pretend it doesn't exist. contributed to what you call "the experi­ jail on Oct. 11, 1988 when I was in town for tivism? So it means that the education that is done ment" - and the physical, emotional and the various lesbian/gay and AIDS activist is the most superficial. [The video offers] .. psychological effects they had on you. events taking place that weekend. It was the Linda: I love it! I only wish I could have been nothing about prevention, and only tries to first time I had ever visited the jail, despite there today.

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