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1913. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2315

1\fr. B.AOON. Unless there be something of importance in the b ill -0ught to be taken from the House Calendar and put on J"ournal thut some Senator desires to have read, I ask that the the Union Calendar. further reacting of the Journal b~ dispensed with. Mr. MAl~ . The bill also creates two new offices. The PRESIDE.NT pro tempore. ThE Senator from Ge-0:rgia The SPEAKER Yes. So that change of reference will be asks nnanimous consent that the further reading of the Journal made from the House Calendar to the Union Cu1endar. be dispensed with. Is there objection? The Chair bears none. LEAVE OF ABSENCE. T he reacting is dispensed "\'\rith, and the Jonrnal stands nppron~d . l\Ir. BACON. I mo-rn that when the Senate adjourns t(}-day By unanimous cont

l\Ir. CAMPBELL. l\Ir. Speaker, I have had only a few re­ Kansas [l\Ir. CAMPBELL] 30 minutes, with some agreement that quests for time for general debate on the resolution. In view of the other gentleman from Kansas [l\Ir. l\IuBDoCK] shall hal"e 10 the fact that the resolution will · probably be open to amend­ minutes of the 30 minutes controlled by the gentleman from illent and that Members desiring to discuss their amendment Kansas [Mr. CA.MPDELL]. will have all the opportunity they desire, that will be satis­ Mr. POU. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. KELLY], factory. l\Ir. Speaker. l\Ir. HENRY. I will state that it is my intention to a1low l\fr. HENRY. A member of the Committee on Rules. the freest latitude of discussion and to · the offering of amend­ Mr. CAMPBELL. "fy intention is to yield 10 minutes to the ments to the resolution. I have no desire to move the previous gentleman from Pennsylyania [Mr. KELLY], a member of the question within the next two or three hours, if it takes that Committee on Rules. long. I do not want to cut off amendment or discussion. The SPEAKER. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The l\Ir. 1\1.ANN. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman permit a sug­ Chair hears none, and it is so ordered. gestion? Mr. HENRY. Now, Mr. Speaker, I wish to state that on l\Ir. HENRY. Certainly; I will be glad to have the gentle­ last Wednesday the gentleman from Kentucky [l\Ir. SHERLEY] man make it. · introduced a resolution reciting certain publications which were l\fr. MANN. Under the forn:i in which this matter comes be­ made in the New York World and Chicago Tribune, and asked fore the Bouse any gentleman who secures the floor for the pur­ for an inyestigation in regard to himself of charges based on those pose of offering an amendment secures it for an hour's debate. publications. The gentleman from Kansas [Mr. NEELEY] also in­ 1\Ir. HENRY. Yes. troduced a resolution, and the gentleman from Illinois [l\fr. TA.V­ l\Ir. l\1A1\TN. Which he can use himself or dole out as he EN ·ER] introduced a resolution on the same subject, and so did the pleases? gentleman from California [Mr. J. I . NOLAN] . So there were l\Ir. HENRY. Yes. four of these resolutions providing for the investigation of the Mr. l\IANN. So there can not be any very extended liberty lobby. The Committee on Rules has carefully examined all of about offering amendments unless there be some preliminary ar­ those resolutions and has come to the conclusion that they rangement made.in reference to time? would report a substitute to the House, which has been read by l\lr. HENRY. I am perfectly willing to make an agreement the Clerk and is now before the Members. This substitute in that regard, that any Member may offer an amendment dur­ speaks for itself, and provides for the broadest and most sweep­ ing the progress of the debate. ing investigation of the charges which have been made in regard .1\Ir. MANN. I suggest to the gentleman that he ask unanimous to a lobby. The Committee on Rules were of the opinion that consent in some way as to the time for debate, with the further this resolution should be as broad as the English language could provision that any gentleman securing the floor shall have the make it in order that this committee of seven provided for in right, while he has the floor, to offer an amendment, amend­ the resolution could go into this transaction and any other ments to be pending, to be voted on at the end of the debate. transaction with which a lobby might be connected. · l\Ir. HENRY. I make that request. Mr. SMITH of Texas. Will the gentleman yield? Mr. HAY. Mr. Speaker, I suggest to the gentleman from Illi­ l\fr. HENRY. I do. nois that somebody desiring to offer an amendment might not Mr. SMITH of Texas. I notice in the second paragraph of be able to secure the floor. the resolution that an inquiry is provided as to whether this l\fr. MANN. I take it that the courtesy of both sides of the association exerted influence for the purpose of defeating the House would permit anybody who desired to offer an amend­ nomination or election of candidates for the Bouse of Repre­ ment, if time is not to be restricted, to have the floor. sentatives? Mr. HAY. Why not have an arrangement that any .Member Mr. HENRY. Yes. desiring to offer an amendment shall have the privilege of doing Mr. SMITH of Texas. Does that provide for any inquiry as so? to whether or not they were active in electing Members of Con­ Mr. l\IANN. I think that is proper. gress? Why was that left out? Mr. GARNER. And furthermore, if we do not have some Mr. HE.i~RY. I think that language includes that. limit of time on the gentleman who offers the amendment, he Mr. GARRETT of . Will the gentleman permit ? could ha1e an hour. I think it better be limited to 10 or 15 I n line 12, "to accomplish the defeat for nomination or election minutes. of any candidate for the Bouse of Representatives of Congrei::i s." l\fr. MANN. That is what we are trying to work out. Mr. HENRY. "For nomination or election." I think if the Mr. BE:t\TRY. Why not put it in this way : That the general gentleman will carefully read the whole resolution he wi11 ~ee debate do not exceed one hour, and that then we take the reso- that it covers the point, "to accomplish the defeat for nomi· 1ution up for consideration under the five-minute rule, for the nation or election." However, if the resolution is not broad purpose of amendment and explaining th.e amendments. I make enough the committee haye no objection to having it amended, that request. and now places it in the hands of the membership of the Honse. The SPEL'\KER. The gentleman from Texas asks unanimous I beliern it is broad enough to reach all of these thin,_~s. but we consent that general debate on this resolution be confined to have brought it before the House after consideration and be­ one hour, and that then it shall be taken up for consideration lieve that it should be adopted. We have no pride of opinion under the five-minute rule, for amendment. as to its yerbiage or authorship. We invite amendments and Mr. HENRY. Not exceeding one hour. we do not desire to limit debate, but have requested that The SPEAKER. That there be general debate not exceeding plenty of time be allowed for discussion and for amendment. one hour, and that then the resolution be taken up for consid­ Therefore this resolution is submitted to the Bouse for its con­ eration under the five-minute rule for amendment. Is there sideration. objection? • · .Mr. FERRIS. Will the gentleman yield? l\Ir. FOWLER. i\Ir. Speaker, reserving the right to object, I Mr. HENRY. I do. desire to inquire whether the time has all been given up to Mr. li,ERRIS. I want to ask the chairman of the committee Members for the hour? if the committee considered the advisability of making the reso­ l\Ir. HENRY. It has not. lution a joint resolution so that there might not be perhaps a Mr. FOWLER. I desire to know if I can have five minutes t rying of a man at both ends of the Capitol at the same time? of that time? Mr. HENRY. The committee gave that matter considerable Mr. HENRY. The gentleman can have five or more. attention and came to the conclusion that while it is desirable it · l\1r. LEVY. And with the understanding that I have that is not practical at this time to do so. time? Mr. FERRIS. Why? Mr. HENRY. Yes; and the gentleman from New York, also. Mr. HE~TRY . We tried to get into touch with members of I suppose, 1\fr. Speaker, that I am to control 30 minutes of the the Senate committee. Well, there are a great many reasons time, and the gentleman from Kansas shall control 20 minutes why it is not practical and they will be developed as we pro­ of the time, and the other gentleman from Kansas [Mr. l\Iu&­ ceed with the discussion. I think the gentleman will be con­ nocK] 10 minutes. vinced of iot. I do not like to take the time now to go into that l\lr. DIES. Mr. Speaker, reserving the right to object, I feature of it, but under the five-minute rule an of those things would like to know if the gentleman can give me fi1e minutes? will be discussed. l\fr. HENRY. I think I shall be able to do so. l\Ir. FERRIS. I do not care, then, to divert the gentleman's Mr. C.A.l\IPBELL. Mr: Speaker, it was my intention to yield attention at this time. 10 minutes of my time to the gentleman from Pennsylrnnia Mr. HENRY. You will not divert my attention at this time, [Mr. KELLY) . but the Senate committee has been proceeding for days and n or secure the defeat," pcrmas during the recess of Congress. and so forth. If the gentleman does not offer it, I will. That Is. the Honse to underst:md by that that this investigation is, to amend by the insertion. of the words. " or secm:e the elec­ shall be deferred until Congress recesses 'l tio-n or... Mr. IIW1RY. Oh, no. The Speaker has that authority l\fr. GARRETr of Tennessee. I.f the: gentleman will allow while Congress is in session, but when we adjourn the authority me, I had that Ianguage in mind myself, but that involves the has to be specifically conferred on him by the resolution. repetition of the word '" eJeetian." I think it would'. be simpler Mr. REED. Then by the resolution as written it is the in­ a:nd better grammar· after the word " the " to insert fhe words tention of the committee to go ahead with the investigation " success or." But we can take that up when we· come to the immediately? consideration of the resolution under the flve-minute rule, of lli. HENRY. Undoubtedly; and they have the authority to course. do it. :arr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Speaker, the purpose of this resolution Mr. Speaker, I reserve the balance of" my time. fs to show to the country what has been done by every organiza­ The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas reserves the tion that has participated in politics and lobbying before the balance of his time. He- has used nine minutes. CongreSS" and the committees of the House. We want the Mr. C.Al\lPBELL. l\lr. Speaker-- country to know exactly what is going on and what is fieing The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Kansas. [lifr. CA.MP­ dane, not only b-y the Manufacturers' Association but by others. BELL] is recoanized for 20 minutes. We do not deny, and it was not the intention of the committee Mr. CAUPBELL. The Committee on Ruies has spent the presenting this resolution to intimate, that the National Asso­ better part of three days considering the subject of this reso­ ciation gf Manufacturers, or any other association, di-d not have lution. They make no apology to the House of Representatives the right to appear before committees of Congress- to n.ppen1 to for violating the Nation's holiday by working most of the da-:y. l\Iembers of Congress upon matters in which they were inter­ We were in accord as to the general scope which the investf- ested; but we want the country to know what association has 2318 CONGRESSIONAL 'RECORD- HOUSE. JULY 5, undertaken improperly to influence the Congress, or the appoint­ for years pa t when people came to the Halls of Congress and ment of committees, or the action of committees, or the defeat the State legislatures and demanded something of improvement of candidates for nomination for Congress, or the defeat of nnd haYe seen their prayers unheeded and their wishes scor:ied. candidates for election to Congress, or the nomination of par­ That is the idea now, and here we have an opportunity to ticular candidates, or the election of particular candidates. It learn j ust to what extent that condition exists in the conduct is important that the country should know what influences are of business and government and the transaction of legislati'f"e back of action taken, not only by the National Association of business. .Manufacturers but by others. And rest assured that the people will not be contented only It is well known to the .Members of Congress, as it is to every­ with learning of conditions of other times. That is important; body else in public life, that for years every candidate for office but fur more important still is full and complete knowledge of receives information that the writer is the representative of so what is taking place in this Congress here and now. many thousands or hundreds of thousands of votes, and that It seems to me that our duty is to so act that the special these 'f"Otes will be for or against him upon the condition that interests of this Nation may not sit calmly through all the he is for or against certain things. We want to know, and we flurry and excitement of such an expose as this, knowing that want the country to know, all the facts in this connection. they can still remain masters of the situation through their If a Member of Congress comes here as the agent of or having arts of crooked agents, dictated letters, and whispered words. been elected by any organization, the country should know it The people of this country demand that such unholy power and the Congress should know it. That is the purpose of the shall cease. Forbearance has almost ceased to be a virtue, and wide scope authorized by this resolution for investigation into their demands are coming in no uncertain terms. They have these questions. The committee is unanimous in its report. wrought a revolution in administrations in an effort to end this I hope the resolution will be amended in certain particulars to domination of privilege, and if that hope fails them the day strengthen it. I yield 10 minutes to the gentleman from Penn­ of public wrath will make alarmists out of many of those who sylvania [Mr. KELLY] and reserve the remainder of my time. are to-day proud to be classed as conservatives. rrhe SPEAKER. The gentleman from Kansas has used 10 The people want the affairs of the Nation to go on in an even minutes and yields 10 minutes to the gentleman from Penn­ and orderly fashion. But if a full and complete investigation sylvania [Mr. KELLY]. into the activities of special privilege in thwarting just legisla­ Mr. KELLY of Pennsylvania. Mr. Speaker, I rise to sup­ tion is not made, and if the investigation does not end in effective port the resolution as introduced, with the amendments which control of the situation, the question will not be whether such may be necessary to carry out the meaning of the resolution conditions are to continue, but what will succeed them. A. in its general form. change is inevitable, and it will come either through ruin or It seems to me that the resolution is broad enough to cover reform. more than the direct charges relating to the National Associ­ I want to support this resolution with the amendments which ation of Manufacturer·s. It has been carefully studied and may be necessary to carry out its intent and purpose, because worked over, as has been suggested· by the chairman of the it reaches that important phase of the alliance of crooked busi­ committee and the gentleman from Kansas [Mr. CAMPBELL] . ness and crooked politics, and because it will give the people the The committee took it up on Independence Day and gave it information which the people have the right to know. It will, careful study during the greater part of that day. I think at the same time, give an opportunity to find a remedy which special credit should be given to the gentleman from North will result in the bettering of such conditions. It rests with the Carolina [Mr. Pou] in this connection. He worked arduously committee, after it is appointed, as to whether or not this in­ on this measure and was largely instrumental in shaping it vestigation shall be of effective use and benefit. The committee in its principal outlines. certainly is given power in this resolution to go into these mat­ I believe this resolution covers the phases of special privi­ ters, to discuss them thoroughly, and present some remedy for lege that rre have been talking about, but knowledge of which the conditions. I urge the passage of the resolution and reserve has existed in more or less nebulous form. The l\Iulhall the balance of my time. charges, as originally published, had two principal phases that Mr. HENRY.. Mr. Speaker, I yield fi ve minutes to the ga.u­ came to my mind in reading them. One is that Members of tleman from New York [Mr. LEVY]. Congress and employees were intimidated or purchased, and l\fr. LEVY. Mr. Speaker, I am opposed to any further inves­ that committees were manipulated to prevent or effect the pas­ tigations. The honor and integrity of the membership of this sage of legislation by the influence of the National Association House is far above reproa~h, and we should not take any notice of Manufacturers, and that to produce that influence certain of the unscrupulous and desjgning class of men who seek to money was spent corruptly for the nomination or election of defame the Members of this body. Members of Congress or their defeat for nomination or elec­ The investigations of the United States Steel Corporation and tion. That is the first phase of the charges. · The ~cond one the Monev Trust have been the cause of distress in the :financial is more important still. It is that there has been a conspiracy, and business world. They have depreciated the value of secu­ a concerted attempt on the part of dishonest big business in rities over $1,000,000,000. The inquisitions have proven con­ this Nation to affect legislation, and by spies and corruption to clusively that there was no just cause for the claim that a enter into labor organizations and to impede any attempts they money trust existed and that the United States Steel Corpora­ might make to pass remedial legislation or . to benefit their tion purcliased the Tennessee Coal & Iron Co. for no other condition by industrial strikes. It seems to me that is the most purpose t.han staying the panic of 1907. Not alone have the important phase of it, and it is covered by this resolution. investigations proven disastrous to the public, but they were The people of the country will not be satisfied to know simply the indirect cause of the death of the greatest banker and whether this National Association of Manufacturers should philanthropist in the world. · · be classed as a noble association of manufacturers or as a These are my objections to the proposed investigation: We nefarious association of manufacturers. have an investigating committee proceeding at the present time It 4.,s not so much concerned as to whether or not certain in the Senate. Why should the country be put to further ex­ Members of this Congress are models of purity or monuments of pense by having the House duplicate the work of the Senate? putrefaction. It seems to me that the people of the country at :What happened in Hl04, 1905, 1906, 1907, 1908, 1909, and 1910? the present time desire to know whether or not there is a sys­ We all have the utmost confidence in the .Members of this tematic attempt to change the Government which was intended body and should show our indorsement by refusing to have an to be a government of the people, for the people, and by the investigation. people into a government of dishonest business, for dishonest Mr. HENRY. l\Ir. Speaker, I yield five minutes to the gen­ busine8s, and by dishonest business, or whether it is a govern­ tleman from Illinois [Mr. FOWLER] . ment of grafters, by grafters, and for grafters. That is what .Mr. FOWLER. Mr. Speaker, I am in hearty accord with the the people of this country want to know, and they will rest sentiment of this resolution. While I do not think it goes far satisfied with nothing -Jess than the whole truth. The social enough in its present form, yet I think by proper amendment unrest about which w.e hear so mucll, and which exists so evi­ it can be made ample to reach all of the claims that have be~n dently in this Nation, is due almost solely to injustice. It is made through the press by the National Association of Manu­ not due in any large degree to anarchists or disturbers without facturers or by any other organization which may have ex­ reason. It can only be allayed by turning the power of pitiless erted its influence for the purpose of the defeat of any candi­ publicity upon the vermin that works in the dark, and then date for Congress or to promote the election of such candi­ following the light with measures which will prevent such date. This resolution, as I understand, confines the scope of menace in the future. Its presence in this Nation is due to the the investigation ·to the conduct of the Members of thi and well-grounded idea in the minds of the people that there has other Congresses who have been named in the public prern. I been a systematic and insidious effort to stop any progress am in favor of its being broadened, so that it \Yill reach e•ery toward social nnd industrial justice. That has been the idea Member of this House or any former House. 1913. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2319.

Mr. POU. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? saloon league and of a saloon league, of a farmers' organization Mr. FOWLER. I can not yield very much of my time. I and of an antifarmers' qrganization; that various religious sects, have only five minutes. various in.stitutions, promulgating various views, have kept Mr. POU. I will yield the gentlenrnn one minnte of my time. so-called lobbyists at the Capitol. l\Iy private opinion is tha.t l\lr. FOWLER. Very weU, then I yield to the gentleman with these so-called lobbyists of all the men in the worJd ·h:rve the pleasure. - hlghest regard for the character allll the integrity of Members Mr. POU. I wn.nt to cull the gentleman's attention to the of Congress, although I dare sny they may go and report to their wording of the resolution, beginning on line 22, on the ·second paymasters of the infl.uence they wield over you. page: For myself, Mr. Speaker, I belie1e this is an incorruptiule, Said committee shall also inquire whether the said National Associa­ honest body of the Representatives of the people of this country. tion of :Mnnufacturers or any other organization or corporation or I do not belieYe there exists in this Nation an influence that is association or person docs now maintain or has heretofore maintained a lpbby for the pnrpose of infiuenciP.g legislation by Congress and bad enough to seek to corrupt this great representative body, nsct!rtain and repot't. and if such a band exists, I do not beli~ve for a moment that Does not that girn the committee the Yery widest latitude they could buy a corporal's guard of the Representatiyes of the to inYestigate every human being? people in the American Congress. [Applause.] If it is said Mr. FOWLER. A very wide latitude, indeed, but I do not that th~re is a lobby here to keep men from revising the tariff care whether the influence was exerted by :l lobby or· by an and relieYing the burdens of the people, your best answer to individual. It ought to be broad enough to reach the individual it is to revise the tariff and relieve the burdens of the veople. Members of various Congresses-- If it is sai

Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Speaker, I yield three minutes to the The SPEJA.KER. Does the gentleman from Wisconsin yield to gentleman from California [Mr. KAHN]. the gentleman from Tennessee? The SPEAKER. The gentleman from California [Mr. KAHN] Mr. COOPER. I do. is recogn.ized for three minutes. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. When the gentleman from Mr. ""KAHN. Mr. Speaker, this resolution will undoubtedly Wisconsin speaks of public meetings of the committee to which receive the Yote, pructically, of m·ery Member of thls House, he refers, he means, of course, those meetings at which hearings and it ought to receive the '\"Ote of every Member of this House. were had? The Congress of the United States should not be unwilling to Mr. COOPER. Yes. . lay bare the act of every Member of that Congress. The coun­ Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Of course, there were e.xccuti'rn try wants light and ought to have the light. But while we meetings of the committee. nre laying bare our lives I believe the motives of the executive Mr. COOPER. Yes. officers of this country and their actions should be laid bare Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. The meetings at which hen.r­ also. It was a remarkable sight the other day in this House ings were had were all public? to see the Democratic majority trying to stifle debate upon a Mr. COOPER. Yes. proposition that there should be a thorough exploitation of an Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I do not suppose there will be effort that might have resulted in the defeat of justice in the any objection to the amendment, but as a matter of fact does mutter of the white-slave prosecutions at San Francisco. You the gentleman recall in his experience here any investigating can not avoid laying bare these matters. We are determined to committee which held meetings, which took the testimony of ba\e the facts fully presented to the country. The effort to witnesses, which have not always been public and open for stick your heads in the sand like ostriches in the belief that everybody who could get into the room? the country will not see you will not suffice. These matters Mr. COOPER. That does not meet the situation at all. I must be made public. Tbe actions of men in public office, want an express prohibition in the resolution itself, so that ·.whether they occupy seats in Congress or whether they are at there shall not be a possibility of a secret meeting. We should the head of powerful executive departments, should be open to not leave it to the discretion of any committee, nor especially · the light of day; and I am glad that the minority leader of this of a subcommittee, in a matter of thjs kind to hold its meetings . House has not interposed a point of order of no quorum at this in secret. Under this resolution· they could go from this city time, in order that this resolution should be adopted by the to San Francisco, or to any other point in the United States, and House as speedily as possible. Better show the country the hold meetings in secret there. character of men: who are in Congress. The trouble is that Mr. HENRY. I will say to the gentleman, Mr. Speaker, that there are men around this Capitol and men on the outside who we do not intend to have any secret meetings of the committee, speak to Members on public questions, as they have a right to and I do not thiiik there is any intention of that kind as to the do, and .Members have the right to listen. I dare say that if hearings. A.s the gentleman will recall in the matter of the a Member is free in expressing his news it is not improbable Money Trust investigation and the investigation into the Sugar that the indtridual who has accosted the Member will report Trust and into the Steel Trust, those proceedings were all pub­ to his master that this Congressman is all right on this ques­ lished. I have not the slightest objection to an amendment re­ tion; and it is possible that he tells his master, in order to quiring that all these hearings be m&de public. n::.ake a show of earning the salary which he is being paid by The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Wisconsin one of these big corporations, "I have fixed Congressman has expired. So-and-So. He is all right, und you need not worry about him." Mr. HEJNRY. l\Ir. Speaker, I yield two minutes to the gen­ If such a ·letter were made public, it would immediately place tleman from Oklahoma [Mr. FERRIS]. an innocent Member in an unenviable position. It is also The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Oklahoma [Mr. FERRIS] within the rnnge of possibility that the scoundrel who resorts is recognized for two minutes. to such practices will not hesitate to demand money from his Mr. FERRIS. Mr. Speaker, I have little or no doubt that employer, ostensibly for the Congressman, when, as a matter this resolution will receive practically the entire vote of this of fact, he sticks it into his own pocket. I understand that has body, but it ought not to be adopted until lt ls made a joint been done at times around State legislatures. It may have resolution. I think there ls not one reason, but there are been done here. Let us have the light. Let us investigate it all. many reasons why this should be done. If any Member of this I have found in my interviews with Members of this House House is venal or corrupt, as the charge in the newspaper states, thnt there is n-0t one to whom I have spoken who knows this he ought to receive the conclemnntion of both ends of the Oapi· man Mulhall. A.nd yet he has given the impression to the tol. If he is guilty, he ought to be expelled by both ends of the country that he has constantly influenced Members of this Capitol. If they are innocent, as I believe them to be, they H ouse. I believe the investigation will disclose his statement deserve to be freed from the charges lodged against them by .a to be a tissue of lies. I sincerely hope, Mr. Speaker, that this joint committee and at the earliest possible time. re olution will pass unanimously, and that light will be thrown Another reason why this should be a joint resolution is that upon all the actions of the Members of this House. these charges reach both Senators and House Members. There­ Mr. LEVY. l\fr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent to extend fore, to have a House committee start out and investigate one my remarks in the RECORD, · side of it and then have a Senate committee start out and in­ The SPEAKER. The gentleman from New York [l\Ir. LEVY] vestigate another side is a duplication of printing, is a duplica­ a sks unanimous consent to extend his remarks in the RECORD. tion of time, is a duplication of investigaton, as wen as. a con­ Is there objection? flict of authority. " There was no objection. Suppose one committee concludes that the men accused are l\Ir. CAMPBELL. l\fr. Speaker, I yield three minutes to the innocent, and suppose that the other committee concludes that gentleman from Wisconsin [1\Ir. CooPER]. they are guilty, what sort of a spectacle do you have to pre­ Ir. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I have asked for time because sent to an inquiring public? of the possible uncertainty as to how long there will be an These charges name a long list of Senators and .Members opportunity to amend the resolution. of the House here, and they name also a long list of ex-Senators I call the attention of the House to the fact that, beginning and ex-Members. I think the chairman of the Committee on with line 6 on page 3, are the provisions for the meetings of .Rules and the members of the committee itself ought to make the committee, and thnt in so far as any language in this reso­ this a joint resolution and ought to make a general clean-up of lution is concerned every one of those meetings can be held in this proposition. secret. This same sort of a resolution permitting secret meet­ What reason can there be for one body making an investiga­ ings of the committee of investigation was introduced at the tion and another body making the snme investigation? Do you time we proposed to have an investigation of the Ballinger suppose that after the House committee has investigated the trouble, but when the resolution reached the floor attention was House Members, the Senate will sit idly by and let their :Mem­ called to it and the House adopted an amendment declaring bers rest under a cloud? Not at all. that all meetings of that committee and of every subcommittee Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield to me for should be open to the public, the adoption of that amendment a question? resulting in no meetings being held by subcommittee. A.ll the The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman yield? meetings were held in public and conducted by the full com­ Mr. FERRIS. I do. • mittee. So I hope that there will be no adjournment to-day Mr. MANN. Would it not be practicable :for this committee, until we reach these prmi sions on page 3 and there shall be an appointed by the House, and a Senate committee, appointed by opportunity to amend. the Senate, to sit jointly and have the hearings published sepa­ Mr. GA.RRE'f'T of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman rately, not jointly, so that in fact there will be only one exami- yield for a question? nation and two reports? · HH3. CONGRES~IONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2321

Mr. FERIUS. If that is anticipated, that that course .should Mr. MURDOCK. This article which I will read details some be pur 'Ued, that is only additional logic why this should be a of the chaTges made by Mulhall: joint resolution. I do not h.11ow that that is intended or that .Just _after the convening of Congress in 1!)09-1910, Col. Mulhall they coulc.l do tlrnt under the authority conferred by this resolu­ received the assistance of Watson in preparing a list of Representatives whose presence in Congress seemed to him to be of inimical interest tion of the House and of the Senate. But if that is intended to to the National Association of Manufacturers. In the i·eport to Secre­ be done, this ought to be a joint resolution. tary Schwedtman on March 17, 1909, Col. .Mulhall said : l\Ir. MANN. I do not know that it is intended to be done, " I had a long interview with Mr. Watson this morning and sub­ mit!ed·to him for his advice a list of men who are continually opposing but I think it would be a very wise thing to do. us m Congress, which I thought it would be a good idea to get into l\Ir. FERRIS. I think so. But how much more effective and the hands of the leaders of Olli' association, so that we could commence better would be the work of a joint investigating committee early to educate those men to be fair and not such strenuous advocates for labor bills and class legislation. The list comprises Mr. William that would render one Yerdict and upon which everybody could Hughes, of the sixth New .Jersey district; Mr. James McDermott, of look! I call your attention to the fact that there will be con­ th_e fourth Illinois district; lli. Champ Clark, of the ninth Missouri dis­ filct of authority and a muddle and a mess if one House should trict, Mr. Harry L. Maynard, of the second Virginia district; Mr. Henry A. Cooper, o:f the first Wisconsin distr·ict; Mr. Henry C. Lou­ render one verdict and another House should render another denslager, of the first New Jersey district; Mr. Ebenezer .T. Hill, of the verdict. I am heartily in favor of an investigation that will fourth Connecticut district; Mr.. John L. Burnett, of the seventh bring about good results and purify the membership of this district; Mr. Thomas D. Nichols, of the tenth Pennsylvania district (now seated, but his seat will be contested) ; l\Ir. Herbert Par· House. Personally, I do not think there are venal men here sons, of the thirteenth New York district; George A. Pearre, of the sitting amongst us, and I do not think this investigation will sixth .Maryland district; Mr. William B. Wilson, of the fifteenth Penn­ ever prove that. I think it will prove that some irresponsible sylvania district ; Mr. William S. Greene, of the thirteenth Massachu­ setts district; Augustus P. Gardner, of the sixth Massachusetts dis­ person is publishing something that will prove to be untrue, un­ trict; Gilbert N. Haugen, of the fourth Iowa district ; Vietor Mur­ founded, and, in most cases, a criminal slander against some dock~ of the eighth Kansas district; El. A. Morse, of the tenth Wiscon­ sin uistrlct; Lenroot, of the eleventh Wisconsin district (new Mem­ .of the most respected Members of Congress. ber) ; .John M. Nelson, of the second Wisconsin district. The last The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Oklahoma six on this list have been placed there by Speaker Cannon and Mr. has expired. .Tames E. Watson. Watson says these people have always been against Mr. HENRY. l\1r. Speaker, I believe I have no further re­ anything that we ever wanted since he has been u Member of the House. This includes the entire list, and he thinks that we ought to quests for time, and if the gentleman has no others-- start in to make war upon this list at the first opportunity offered." 1\Ir. MURDOCK. I should like three or four minutes. l\Ir. J. I. NOLAN. I yield three minutes to the gentleman Now, Mr. Speaker, as a Member of Congress, I have no objec­ from Kansas. tion to the agent of any organization in the United States com­ The SPEJA.KER. The gentleman from Kansas is recognized ing to that door or coming to me in my office and asking me for three minutes. to support or oppose legislation. l\Ir. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, when President Wilson chal­ The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has again ex­ lenged the attention of the country to the fact that there existed pired. around the legislath-e halls in Washington insidious lobbies for l\fr. MURDOCK. I should like a couple of minutes more. the purpose of influencing legislation there was a disposition in Mi. HENRY. I have agreed to yield the remainder of my a good many quarters to smile incredulously, a readiness to time. believe that nothing would result from the President's chal­ Mr. . MURDOCK. I ask u,nanimous consent to conclude, in lenge. A committee was appointed in another body, a great two minutes. deal in this spirit, apparently. Almost immediately after the Mr. HENRY. I have no objection to that. appointment of that committee in the Senate important papers The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. and correspondence were seized-- KELLY] has no time left. The gentleman from Kansas [Mr. Mr. KEATING. Will the gentleman yield? CAMPBELL] has four minutes. Mr. MURDOCK. I have not completed my sentence. Mr. l\IA.NN. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Kansas yield to general debate be extended for two minutes and that the gentle­ the gentleman from Colorado? man from Kansas have those two minutes. Mr. MURDOCK. No; I decline to yield, because I have not Mr. HEl~Y. l\fr. Speaker, I have no objection to that. completed my sentence. Papers and correspondence of im­ The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Illinois asks unanimous portance were seized, which revealed the existence of an im­ consent that the gentleman from Kansas be given two minutes portant lobby related to one particular interest. Following upon more, not to be counted in the hour. Is there objection. [~titer that exposure came the Mulhall articles. I have read them. a pause.] The Chair hears none. They are in certain particulars serious. It seems to me in some Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, when organizations come here respects that they are a great deal more serious as indicating and seek to influence a Member of Congress by persuasion, no the activities of the National Association of Manufacturers in one can have objection; but when a man repr.esenting a power­ its attempts to bullyrag Congressmen than in any attempt other­ ful organization comes to this door and seeks to control a Mem­ wise to control them. The l\lulhall charges assert that the Na­ ber either by the threat to use money against him in his dis­ tional Association of Manufacturers was an organization of trict or by offering to contribute money to ·aid in his campaign, business men maintaining an organization within it which went it is beyond the bounds of decency; it is a thing that can not about over the United States attempting to corrupt labor unions, be too quickly condemned by Congress.. The National Associa­ attempting to buy labor-union men, in order to disrupt such tion of Manufacturers is under the charge of repeatedly using organizations, discredit the movement, and bring the cause of money in districts to aid Members of Congress to be elected union labor into disrepute. The charge is made in one instance that they might be placed on important committees to defeat that money was given to a Congressman to attempt to bribe remedial legislation which the people of the country demanded. labor leaders in his district. The charge is made specifically This resolution as reported seems to be thorough. It grants that a man was hired upon the floor of this House to spy upon the committee power to go into all the avenues of this exposure, Members. The charge is made that the former titular head of and if the committee is industrious, if it will hold open meet­ this House, along with the party whip of one of the parties in ings, as it ought to do, and as every committee, standing and this House, prepared lists of Members who were to be warred select, in this House should, then we will get results from this upon because they would not do the bidding of the National investigation, and results which will be of benefit not only to Association of Manufacturers. Now, as I have said, l l·ead the country, to progressive legislation, but to the l\Iem}}ers of these articles very carefully. I have believed for years that the the House. personnel of some of the committees of this House were manip­ l\fr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Speaker, how much time have I re­ ulated against certain remedial legislation. Whether it was maining? done at the behest of the National Association of Manufacturers The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Kansas has four min­ or not I did not know, but I was convinced that it was done. utes. I was one of a group of Members who made a fight upon that Mr. OilfPBELL. Mr. Speaker, I yield four minutes to the and kindred propositions, and we had to meet penalties for mak- gentleman from Illinois [l\:lr. l\IANN]. - ing that fight. · Mr. MANN. l\Ir. Speaker, I have not taken these charges I picked up one of the Mulhall articles the other day, and I which have been made quite so seriously as many Members of read this-- · the House apparently have. I do not believe there is corruption The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has expired. in the House. If I were to make a charge against the House of Mr. MURDOCK. I should like a couple of minutes more of Representatives, I should say that there were no corrupt men the gentleman from Texas.. in the House, but that there was a plentiful supply of cowards. l\!r. HENRY. I yield to the gentleman two minutes. I do not believe that many men on the floor of the House are The SPEAKER. The gentleman is recognized for two min­ influenced in their votes or their position ·by the active lobbyists utes more. who appear in Washington, but that they are often influenced 2322 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD~HOUSE. J LY 5, in their position and their votes by fenr of what may happen fr, MURRAY of Oklahoma.. I simply de ire to fini h this to them in their districts is undoubtedly tru~. Since I have sentenc~lllld on the othe1· hand, if Mulhall is false and has been a Member of the House I ha-re learned to pay respect and made a false statement we ought to say so, nnd the committee give admiration to the Member on elther side who experience ought to include that in its finclings. has taught me did what he believed was right, regardless of l\Ir, IIE:~TRY. Mr. Speakei:, I yield two minutes to the gen­ what some organization or other interest might think about it, tleman from Kansas [Mr. NEELEY). or regardless of threats that were made. I do not see a.ny more Mr. NEELEY. l\fr. Speaker, it seems to me that my good objection to the National .Manufacturers' Association, or the friend from Oklahoma [Mr. FERRIS] forgets one very material labor organizations, or the antisaloon leagues, or the liquor in~ tnatte-r in arguing against a Bouse committee and in favor of a terests, o::: the Ohristian Scientists, or the American Medical As­ joint inquiry into the lobby charges, and that is the te timon:r sociation or the American Association for Medical Freedom, or of two witnesses who have recently occupied tlle witness stand any oth~r association endeavoring to influence votes for or before the Senate Committee. These two men have claimed to against a Member of Oongress in his district, and perhaps s:pend· be the- fl.uthors of almost all the remedial legi lation that hn.s ing money for that purpose, than I do to any other polltlcnl been enacted by Congre s during my lifetime. They have made campaign and Dot half as much objection to it as for a :Mem­ statements under oath so broad that the entire country must ber of co'ngress on the Chautauqua platform in another man's soon be convinced of their evident insincerity, with the conseJ distdct to denounce that other man as unfit to be a Representa­ quent result that the Senate investigation will be lowered in tive in Congress. I think that is rather taking an unfair advan­ dignity and it findings belittled in the estimation of the entire tage. I do not know how extensively that may have been done. country. I do not believe that a committee of this Honse would :Mr. Speaker, I have been a Member ot this House for now -pennit any witnei:s to come before it and tell them under oath more than 16 years. I believe I have written more laws upon that he and he alone wns re ponsible for the creation of the the statute books than any other Member of Congress 1n this Department of Commerce, created the Department of La.bor, or the other House. I have had the honor to have charge of was the author of the child-labor law, was the author of the more important bills in this Rouse than any othe1· Member of eight-hour law, drew the resolution to in-vestigate the Steel the House and I neYe1• have met with this "insidious" lobby. Trust, drew the resolution to invest1gate tlie l\loney Trust, and It may be' that I am too innocent, or it may be that I am too was himself directly respcnsible for all of the other legislation severe. It has never come in contact with me. I heard talk and resolutions that he euumern.tes, and then lea'9'e the vres­ about a greut lobby when the pure-food bill was under con­ cnce of that committee and of that room without having the sideration. I ne-ver met the lobby in Washington. I _met the entire matter checked up to him in a manner that would call cowardice of :men on the floor of this Bouse who, temporarily the attention of" the country to hls deliberate misstatement of at least were afraid of influences in their own districts which, facts. throuuh' corr-es-pondence from home, they were led to believe The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that if that investigation proceeds existed. I have seen this House and its Members receive 1 tters as It is now p1·oc-eeding, it will oo-n be the joke of the country, and postal cards by the thousand , perhaps the hundreds of n it has begcm to be the joke of Washington. Ther is not a thousands from the most powerful lobby I eYer saw, in connec­ Member of this Ilouse but who knows that many of the state­ tion with' the House, when the oleomargarin'J bill was under ments of each of these two witnesses was absolutely untrue, and discussion; but that lobby was not here. The- lobby was at in my judgment it indicates a deliberate attempt upon the part home and it was not an unlawful lobby and probt.bly or pos­ of certain unseen forces to belittle the investigation, lower its sibly 'not an improper lobby and not ::tn improper influence; but dignity in the ere of the country, and result in a whitewash men on the floor of the Hou e, when that bill was under con­ that wi 11 permit any guilty to escape. sideration as when many others are under consideration, told This House should have a committee chosen from its member· you and ~ill tell you privately that they believed OL'.) way and ship who are determined to get the facts and all the facts for proposed to vote the other way-. That is only human nature. I the countl'J. This committee should spare none, protect none, do not undertake to criticize them. persecute no-ne; and if any individual has the brazen effrontery lr. Speaker, I hope that this investigation will show that the to come before it and in its presence make a statement of such American Congre s and its Members are incorruptible and astounding untruthfulness, as the newspaper reports indicate honest, filled with honor and a desire to promote the best have- been made to the Senate committee, the House committee interests of the country. [Appluus-e.J should lo e 110 time in presenting proper charges of perjury and i\fr. HENRY. Mr. Speaker, I yield two minutes to the gen­ seeing that prosecutions are based thereon. This House can not tlem::m from Oklahoma [Mr. MURRAY]. permit the Senate investigation. to embrace ma.tters which di­ l\lr. 1\!UilRAY of Oklnhoma. Mr. Speaker, possibly ft is fair rectly concern ft and its integrity and thus escnpe its respon­ for me to state that I appro-ve of this resolution, and I make sibility. It should disclose the facts exactly as they are without that stntement in view of my insistence the other day on hnv­ fear or' favor, and permit the country to make its judgment ing the question considered then. I am sure that my colleague based thereon, without regard to anybody or anything. [Mr. FERRIS] would not raise an objection on the score that it The SPEAKER. All time has expired and the Olerk will rea.d ought to be a joint resolution, if he would tnke a second thought the resolution for amendment. and under~tnnd that the power over the membership of this TM Clerk began the reading ot the resolution. bodv and over the Senate are separate powers and that it could Mr. HENRY. Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that not w be controlled so thoroughly as by a separate committee. the word " seven," in line 2, on page l, be stricken out and the And, besides that, if two committees will investigate and do word " eight " inserted. duplicate work, it will sho-w in the end when the conclusions Mr-. l\:lANN. t Reserving the right to object, why! a.re found that if they are together the American people will Mr. HENRY. Well, if there is any objection, I withdraw Jt. believe that there is no whitewash, and :tf they should disagree, Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Mr. Speaker, is the paragraph then a ·discussion would come up as to why they would disagree. open to amendment at thn.t point? I am not one of those who believe that there a.re many dishonest The SPEAKER. The paragraph is open to amendment- men in this House. I do not know, because I have not been here very long, but I would be ashamed to remain here if I 1\!r. TAYLOR of Colorado. Then I move to strike out the ·believed there were many dishonest men in this House. In word " seven" and insert in lieu thereof the word "nine." fact, I would not serve in any legislative or deliberative body The SPEAKER. The Olerk will first finish the reading of composed of crooks. On the other hand, I am not ready to say the paragraph. that this man who makes this cha1·ge is wholly false. Perhaps The Clerk read as :follows: here and there he told a partial truth. We must remember that, Whereas there have appeared In recent issues of various newspapers published in the Umted States divers statements and chnrges n fa~ after al1, ·the worst lie in the world is a partial truth. I con­ the exlstence and activity of a lobby organized by and on behalf of sider that, so far as the statement made witb reference to the an orgnnlzation known as the National Association of. Manufacturers for the purpose of imprnperly influencing legislation by Congres , tbe list beginning with President Taft nnd running down to nnd official conduct of certain of its members and employees, the ap­ including the distinguished Member from Kentucky [Mr, SHER­ pointment and selection of committees of the House, and for other LEY], that statement alone does not charge them With any­ purposes designed to affect the integrity of the proceedings of the thing that is wrong. It is only its publication With other House ot Repre entatives and its Members: Therefore be it Resolved, That the Speaker appoint a select committee of seven Mem­ charges that seem to be true. I apprehend that employees in bers of the House, and that such committee be instructed to inquire into the service of the House have been, more than any Mem­ and report upon all the matte-rs so alleged concerning said Representa­ ber would be, object to criticism and condemnation. We tives, and mora especially whether during this or any previous Con­ gress the lobbyists of the said National Association of Manufacturers, should merely proceed upon the idea that we are see-king the or the said association through any officer, agent, or member thereof, truth and the whole h-nth and not a partial statement. If we did in fact reach or influence, whether foi- business, polititnl, or sym­ zee that a l\lcruber is not guilty as charged we should say so, pathetic reasons or otherwise, the said Repre •entatives or any one of them or any officer or employee of this or any former House of Repre­ nnd- sentatives in or about the discharge of their official duties; and if so, The SPEA..KEil. The time of the gentleman has expired. when, by whom, and in what manner. . 1913 . CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-ROUS~. 2323

.fl.ir. TAYLOR of Colorado. l\Ir. Speaker, I move to amend, in Mr. TAYLOR of Colomdo. And we are not very busy at the line 2, by inserting in place of the word " seven " the word present time? "nine." Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. No. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Colorado offers an :.Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Why can we not have 15 men amendment, which the Clerk will report. working here as well as 7, and why is there not nearly always The Clerk read as follows: safety in numbers? Amend, line 2, page 1. by strikin17, out the word " seven" and insert- 1\.fr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I think that the answe1· to that Ing in Heu thereof tbe word " nine. ' is that the work of this committee can be more expeditiously Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Mr. Speaker, I think this com- done by a small committee. I will say this, Mr.1 Speaker, I mittee should be larger. It will be an exceedingly important had some experience upon one investigating committee on which committee, as everyone knows, and I believe the American there were nine members-not a committee of tltis character---i people will have a great deal more confidence in its reports if and there was frequently a great deal of trouble to get a quorum we have a large committee than if we have a small one. There of that committee there, and frequently we had to proceed with­ is a kind of a prevailing sentiment concerning a small committee out a quorum. that a little coterie of men may possibly go off by themselves 1\fr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman and prepare a whitewashing report. This resolution authorizes yield? a embcammittee of this committee of seven to conduct hearings. The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Tennessee yield to If you are going to have a subcommittee of three men go off the gentleman from Colorado? and make an investigation of ourselves-and that is what this 1\.Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. In just a moment. For illus­ in•estigation is-and come back and report that we are all tration, now, we have 11 members on the Committee on Rules, as white as snow and our accusers are all villains, the Ameri- and yet on the day before yesterday, when we first took up this can people are not going to swallow with a great deal of grace proposition, if the point of no quorum had been made we would that kind of a report coming from two or three men. have had to stop our work. l\Ir. MONDELL. Will the gentleman yield? l\Ir. TAYLOR of Colorado. If the gentleman's committee Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Certainly. . had numbered only seven, would it have been easier to ge.t a Mr. MONDELL. If the gentleman's amendment carries and quorum? the committee consists of nine, how would the gentleman expect l\Ir. MANN rose. the committee to be divided on the two sides of the aisle? »r. GARRETT of Tennessee. Yes; we had just five members Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado. Weil, as a matter of fuct, I sup- there. I think a committee of this size will do the work more pose it onght to be five Demoerats and four Republicans. I am expeditiously than a committee of nine~ That is the sole re.a.­ not particular; that is a matter of' detail. I would personally son why I oppose an increase in the number of members on the rather see the committee composed ot 15 membeTs. I belieYe the committee. in•estigation would carry a great deal more weight with 15 than Now does the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN] want to. with T members.; and I also believe the Speaker should, in mak- ask me a question? ing the appointments, have more latitude in representing not only Mr. MANN. I wanted to ask the gentleman. a question--. a larger part of the country but in rep.resenting what may be possibly it is unnecessary now-whether he thinks any com­ considered the various interests or sentiments of the people on mittee of the House as at present constituted has a quorum in the floor of this House, so that when the re:port ultimately town,. or has had a quorum in town for some time, or whether . comes in the people would feel that the investigation had been we could get a quorum of a committee of 15 in town? · fair and thorough and was. not any little whitewashing affuir. Air. GARRETT of Tennessee. I do not know about the other I want to see a genuine investigation by a large and representa- committees, but there is a quorum of the Committee on Rules in tive committee. Therefore I feel it would look much better town. and be much better to increase the number from se.ven tO' nin~ Mr. Th.IANN. There was yesterday. at least. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Yes;. but there was. not on the I coincide with what the gentleman from Oklah-oma [Mr. day before. yesterday. FERRIS] has said. I believe ·if it was a joint committee c:.f the 1\Ir. Speaker, that is all I desire to say now. Senate and House it would be very much better. Charges are Mr_ MANN. I venture to say that the Committee on Appro- made against both Senators and Representatives. We can not priations, for example, has not had a quorum o: its membership investigate one without considering the other. Suppose in this in town for the last two months. investigation the House committee should find that some of the 1\Ir. FITZGERALD. The gentleman from Illinois is mistaken. Senators had been improperly influenced and the Members had The Committee on Appropriations had a meeting 011 Monday. at not. What position would the House be in. in making a report which a quorum was present. There is always a majority of to that effect? I think the committee should not be limited to the members of that committee present in the city, regar<11ess of matters affecting ourselves and the House, but have authe>rity weather conditions. and it is a matter of a good deal of satis­ to investigate all charges against both the Senate and Honse. faction to the chairman of that committee that the members, I believe it would carry more weight i:f it was a joint committee regardless of their political affiliations, are so conscientious and of both Houses. But if it is not a joint committee. let OB· have faithful about their duties. a co.mmittee large enough so that it will ca1·ry weight before the Mr. FOWLER. Mr. Speaker, I will ask the gentleman American people. whether, in his opinion, 13 members would not be a lucky num- 1\lr. G.ARRE'l'T of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I do not concur ber for this investigating committee? Inasmuch :rn that is the with my good friend from Colorado in the idea that the com- number that is dear to the President and the President has mittee should be larger or should be as large as that proposed suggested the insidiousness of the lobby about the Capitol, why by him, namely, nine members. This committee is, of course, a not make the membership of this investigation committee 13? special committee which, under the terms of the resolution, will [Laughter.] not have legislative powers. It is charged with the speci:ftc duty Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I think the remark;} I made in of investigation. So far as I remember in my experience in answer to the questions of my friend from Colorado· [Mr. this body no investigating committee charged with duties similar TAYLOR] wonld ap~ly with even more force in reply to tbe ques­ to this committee has consisted of more- than six members. tion o:f the gentleman from Illinois. There have been some investigating committees-- The SPEAKER. The question is on the amendment of the ))fr·. TAYLOR of Colorado. Will the gentleman permit a ques-- gentleman fi'om Colorad0> [lli. TAYLOR), that the nlllI\ber of tion.? · members be changed to nine instead of seven~ as SUc.~sted by Mr. GARRETT ot Tennessee. Certainly. the committee. "fr. TAYLOR of Colorado. It would not cost the Govern- The question was taken, and the Speaker announced' that the ment a nickel more to have 15 members on the committee than "ayes" seemed to have it. it would to have 7,. wonld it? Mr. HEl\TRY. l\Ir. Speaker, a division. 1\fr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Oh, no; it w

Would it not be better to amend by inserting "or any other 1\fr. MORGAN of Oklahoma. I have an amendment which is RepresentaUve," so that it would read "any other Representa­ intended to cover the same matter which I think would be ti"re or officer or employee of this or any former House"? bette1'. Can I offer it now, or shall I offer it as a substitute? l\Ir. FOWLER. Yes. The word "any" might be stricken The SPJD.A.KER. Th~ gentleman may offer it as an amend­ out. Let it read "or any other Representative." ment to the amendment or as a substitute for the amendment 1\fr. 1\IANN. So that it would read "any Representative of either one. ' this or any former House"? 1\fr. l\IORG.A.1~ of Oklahoma. Then I offer it as a substitute l\Ir. FOWLER. Yes. for the amendment. · l\Ir. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, let me ask the gentleman The SPEJAKER. The gentleman from Oklahoma [l\Ir. MOR­ from Illinois what his amendment accomplishes? GAN] offers a substitute for the amendment which the Clerk 1\lr. FOWLER. It is for the purpose of widening the scope will report. ' of the investigation beyond the men who are charged in the The Clerk read as follows: press. Amer:d, by striking. out, on page 2 line 11, all after the word "to," Mr. HEl\"'RY. So as to make the language more certain. apd ~.trike <;>ut all .of !me 11, on page 2, that precedes the word "nomina­ 1\fr. MANN. The language of the resolution refers only to tion and lLsert m heu thereof the following : " secure or prevent the." certain Represent.c.'1 ti ves. l\l~. l\l.ORG~~ of Oklahoma. l\fr. Speaker, I think my sug- Mr. FOWLER. They are named in the preamble. gestion is briefer and that it covers the ground entirely. It :M:r. MANN. And in the article referred to. woulu read in this way : . Mr. FOWLER. Yes; and they are mentioned in the preamble. Or any ag~nt thereof, to secure or prevent the nomination or election of any candidate. I do not mean the names, but they are referred to. Mr. HE~TRY. We haYe no objection to that. l\lr. GARREY.rT of Tennessee. Let me say to the gentleman 1\Ir. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? from Oklahoma, of course what the House has in mind is the Mr. FOWLER. Yes. ~esire to find out whether money was used or any improper Mr. MURDOCK. Then, as the gentleman amends this reso­ mfl.uence '\\US exerted in any district in the United States to lution, it will empower the committee to investigate the conduct bring about the nomination of any particular man or to prevent of any Membe~ of Congress whether included in the l\fulhall the nomination of any particular man or men, and whether any charges or not? influence was improperly exerted or any money used for the Mr. FOWLER. Yes. • purpose of electing or defeating any man at the general election. Mr. HENRY. We think that is understood to be included. No,v, it is not very material what language is used io cover it. l\fr. FOWLER. In line 5, page 2, after the word" them," insert I really think; though, that the language as it stands in the reso­ "or any other Representative"; also strike out the word "any" lution as reported is ample and complete to enable the commit­ after the word "or," in same line, at the beginning of the sen­ tee to get at the truth; but that objection was made, and it was tence. believed that it could be improved somewhat. 1\Iy first sugges­ Mr. MANN. Before the word " officer "? tion was to insert the words " or prevent," but I will say Mr. FOWLER. Yes; before the word " officer." frankly, upon the suggestion of my friend from Iowa [1\Ir. The Clerk read as follows : TOWNER], he thought the other language would be a little bet­ Amend, page 2, line 5, by inserting after the word " them," the words ter, and I agreed to introduce that instead of the other. I think " or any other Representative," and sb:ike out the second word " any " it accomplishes the end and is just as clear and plain as the in line 5. language of the gentleman from Oklahoma. The SPEAKER. You had better take these amendments 1\Ir. MORGAN of Oklahoma. 1\Ir. Speaker, this is not a very one at a time. What is the first <:hange which the gentleman important matter, but the language will be much clearer and from Illinois [Mr. FoWLER] wiE.hes to make? briefer to insert those words " to secure or orevent the nomina­ Mr. FOWLER. 1\1y suggestion is, in line 5, page 2, after the tion or election of any candida~e for Representative in Con­ word "them," to insert the words "or any other Representa­ gress." That covers the entire ground. It is much briefer and tive." clearer than the language used in the amendment offered by the The amendment was agreed to. gentleman from Tennessee [1\Ir. GARRETT] . 1\fr. FOWLER. Now I yield to the gentleman from Illinois l\lr. GARRETT of Tennessee. 1\Ir. Speaker, will the gentle­ [Mr. lliNN]. man permit the Clerk to report the language a:::i it would read 1\lr. MANN. I move to strike out the word "any," in line 5, if the amendment were adopted? before the word " officer." l\lr. MORGAN of Oklahoma. Certainly. The Clerk read as follows: l\lr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Then, l\Ir. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that the Clerk do that. Amend, line 5, page 2, by striking out the word " any " before the word "officer." The Clerk read as follows: Said committee shall also inquire whether money has been used or l'lfr. A~. r.rbe purpose of that is to make it apply to any improper influence exerted by said National Association of Manufactur­ other officer or Hepresen.tatirn of this or any other House, so ers, or any agent thereof, to accomplish the nomin::ition or election or secure tbe defeat for nomination or election of any candidate for the that it will coyer RepresentatiYes in former Houses. House of Representatives. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment. l\Ir. 1\IORGAN of Oklahoma. ~ :r. Speaker, I submit the lan­ The Clerk read as follows: guage that I present covers the entire matter fully and thor­ Amend, page 2, line 5, by striking out the word " any" before the oughly and uses only one-half the words. I will a::k that my word "officer." amendment be read as it would appear if ado1)ted. The amendment '\\as agreed to. 1\Ir. GARRE'I'T of Tennessee. I would like to hear the para­ 1._'he Clerk read as follows : graph as it would read if the amendment of the ge.utleman from Said committee shall also inquire whether money has been used or Oklahoma were adopted. improper influence exerted by said National Association of Manufac­ turers or any agent thereof to accomplish the defeat for nomination or The Clerk read as follows : election of any candidate for the House of Representatives of Congress, Said committee shall also inquil'e whetbe1· money has been used or im­ and said committee shall likewise inquire whether :Members of Congress proper influence exerted by said National Association of Manufacturers have been employed by said association for the accomplishment of any or any agent thereof to secure or prevent the nomination or ele::tion. improper purpose whatever. :Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I think the lan­ Mr. qARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I offer an amend­ guage contained in the amendment that I propose is amply ment on behalf of the committee, by agreement with the com­ clear and will simplify t he matter. I ask for a Yote on the mittee. amendment of the gentleman from Oklahoma, and I ask that it The Clerk read as follows : be voted down. Page 2, line 12, after the word " the," insert " nomination or election, l\lr. COOPER. 1\Ir. Speaker, I would like to haye the amend­ or · secure the." ment offered by the gentleman from Tennessee read. l\Ir. MANN. Let us hear it as it would read. The Clerk read as follows : l\fr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Read it as it will be. Amend, page 2, line 12, by inserting, after the word " tire" in line 'rhe SPEAI~ER. Tr:~ 'Jierk will report the amendment as it 12, the words "nomination or election or secure the." would read if amended . Mr. COOPER. 1\fr. Speaker, will the gentleman from Tennes­ Tbe Clerk read as follows: see permit me to ask him a question? To accomplish the nomination or election, or secure the. defeat for :l\Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. Certainly, nomination or election. Mr. COOPER. Would there be a difference between a man l\Ir. UORGA~ of Oklahoma. 1\Ir. Speaker, a parliamentary giving money to accomplish a defeat and an investigation of inquiry. that and a man giving money in attempting to accomplish a 'l'he SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. defeat? 1913. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HDUSE. 2325.

l\Ir. GAilRETT of Tennessee. .1'.Ir. Speaker, I think if the Mr. GRAHAM of IDinois. Mr. Speaker, I move to amend by gentleman will permit me, that taken in connection with the inserting after the word "association," in line 15, the words language above-- "or ha·rn knowingly aided said association," making it read: Said committee shall also inqub:e whether money bas been used or Have been employed by said associati-0n or have knowingly aided improper influence Exerted 1Jy said National Association. etc.- !,a~te;~~~ation for the accomplishment of any improper purpose Exerted to accomplish-I think it would be really almost tautology to put in the words "or attempt." I think it is The SPEAKER. The Clerk mll report the amendment. perfectly cJ.ear and plain, and I do not think there mil be the The Clerk read as follows: Amend, page 2, line 15, by adding after the word "association" the slightest difficulty about its construction by either the com­ words "or have knowingly aided said association." ' mittee or by any person appearing before the committee. I ask for a vote on the substitute. Mr. MANN. I ask to have the amendment again reported. The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the substitute The SPEAKER. The Clerk will again re-port the amendment. offered by the gentleman from Oklahoma for the committee The amendment was again reported · amendment offered by the gentleman from ~ennessee [Mr. Mr. MANN. If the gentleman will peTnlit, I call attention to GARBETT]. the fact that the amendment already adopted refers now to the The question was taken, and the substitute was rejected. National Manufacturers' Association or any other association The SPEAKER. The question now is on the amendment of­ or organization. It seems to me that whatever language is fered by the gentleman from Tennessee [Mr. GARRETT]. adopted here ought to conform with that so it would be by said The amendment was agreed to. associations or any of them. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I have another Mr. GRAHAM of Illinois. That will make it conform to the committee amendment, which I send to the desk and ask to former amendment. I adopt the suggestion of my colleague. have read. l\f r. MANN. Let us have the amendment reported. The Clerk read as follows: Mr. GRAHAM of Illinois. " Or have knowingly aided said Line 14, page 2, after the word "of," insert the words "the Honse associations or any of them," and so forth. of Representatives of." The Clerk read a.s follows: Mr. MA.l~. l\lr. Speaker, I would like to make a suggestion Or ha>e knowingly aided said associations or any of them. to the gentleman. He there repeats the language "House of Mr. :MANN. To be inserted after the word " association." Representatives of Congress." I do ·not recall ever before hav­ Mr. GRAHAM of Illinois. Yes. ing heard that descriptive title applied to the House of Rep­ Mr. l\IA.l"'fN. Let us have it read in connection with the text. resentatives. The Clerk read as follows: · Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I will be per­ Have been employed by said association or have knowingly aided fectly willing, and I think the committee probably might con­ said associations or any of them for the accomplishment of any im· sent, to strike out the words " of Congress" in both places, but proper purpose whatever. there is nothing inaccurate about it. l\Ir. GRAHAM of lliinois. Mr. Speaker, the numerous amend­ Mr. l\IANN. It is strictly accurate, except that it is really ments will need editing in orde1· to make the numbers and per.. bad English. sons conform. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I do not agree with the gen­ Mr. l\1ANN. I think that is all right. tlem!tlll that it is bad English. The Constitution defines what The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. the Congress shall consist of-that it shall consist of a Senate Mr. MANN. In the same connection, if my colleague will and House of Representatives. I do not think it is inaccurate offer an amendment to insert before the word " said " the words <>r bad English. "any of," so that it would read " employed by any of said asso­ Mr. MANN. I have no doubt it conveys the proper impres­ ciations," that would make the language conform to the amend­ sion; that it refers to this House of Representatives. You ment already agreed to. might as well say "the Senate of Oongress." When you use Mr. GARH}DTT of Tennessee. That is right. Line 15, after the expression " Senate of Congress" the gentleman at once the word "by," insert the words" any of." sees the incongruity. The Clerk read as follows : Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. That does not sound very well. Page 2, line 15, insert after the word " by " the words " any of." l\Ir. MANN. The other does not sound any better. I can Mr. GRAHAM of Illinois. In that connection, the letter "s '~ understand how it happened to creep in here, but we have ought to be added, making the word "association" read "asso­ always considered that this was a body dignified enough to ciations." I t.hink it ought to be edited to make those things say "House of Representatives" and that was sufficient. agree. Mr. GARRETT .of Tennessee. If the gentleman will permit Mr. MANN. We will have to edit them here. We can not this amendment to be voted upon, I will ask unanimous consent expect the enrolling clerk to edit them. Jie does enough. He to strike out the words " of Congress," in line 13 and in lines corrects our punctuation. 14 and 15. The SPEAKER. The amendment adding the letter " s " will The SPEAKER. The question is on the amendment. be adopted, without objection. The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. There was no objection. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Now, Mr. Speaker, I ask The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend­ unanimous consent that the words" of Congress," in line 13, and ment. the same words in lines 14 and 15, be stricken out. The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment. The SPEAKElR. The gentleman from Wisconsin [M:r. The Clerk read as follows : CooPER] ts recognized. Amend, page 2, lines 13, 14, and 15, by striking out the words " o! Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I was trying to make an in­ Congress." quiry. Several fn my vicinity did not understand the question The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. before the House, and therefore I put the inquiry before the Mr. CAMPBELL. Mr. Speaker, I offer the amendment which question was put. I could not understand, and the gentleman I send to the Clerk's desk. · at my right was not able to understand. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report it. The SPEAKER. If there is any difficulty about it, we will The Clerk read as follows : have the amendment reported again. · Page 2, line 11, after the word "Manufacturers," insert " or other Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. If the gentleman will permit, persons, associations, or organization." it simply inserts, in line 15, after the word "by," the words Mr. MANN. I want to call the attention of the gentlemal} "any ot," and then makes the word "association" read "asso­ from Kansas to the fact that the words inserted there would ciations." That harmonizes with amendments already put in. make the words " or any agent thereof "-- Mr. COOPER. Line 15, after the word " by "? Mr. CAMPBELL. Oh, no; that leaves that all right. I will Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. After the word "by." Yes. ask the Clerk to report it as proposed to be amended. Mr. MORGAN of Oklahoma. Mr. Speaker, I offer the follow· The Clerk read as follows : tng amendment. Said committee shall also Inquire whether money has been used or The SPEl.A.KE'.R. The gentleman from Oklahoma offers an Improper influence exerted by said National Association of :Manufac­ amendment, which the Clerk will report. turers or other persons, associations, or organization, or any a.gent The Clerk read as follows : thereof, etc. . Amend by inserting after the woi-d "money," in line 9, page 2, the l\lr. CA.MPBELL. The meaning is carried out throughout. I following words, to wit: " or any other thing of value." will ask for a vote on the amendment. The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend­ The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. ment. 2326 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5,

Ur. l\IANN. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take time enough kind, it might be doing something that some Members of the to think for a moment myself, and perhaps it would not hurt if Hou e want to be done, but it would not be accomplishing what other Member would take the time to think. It says that the good faith in the pre ent issue demands or what the committee said committee shall also inquire \Yhether money or any other under this resolution is really appointed for. I hope that the thin(J' of value has been used or improper influence exerted by House will restrict the work of the committee to the things said National Association of Manufacturers or any otller per­ that are mentioned in tllis preamble-and that is Yery broad­ sous, organizations, or associations. Now, this is not an im­ all the l\Iulhall charges. ne~ trict the work to that until that is proper use of money or any other thing of value, or the proper accomplished and a report submitted, and then go to the other use of money or any other thing of >alue. These Members of things and Jet them in1estigate to their pleasure all these other Congress here are supposed to have filed a tatement in accord­ things, which sen-e in the main merely to muddy the waters. ance with the publicity act. I belie1e e>ery l\Iember here has There is enough in these Mulhall charges to keep the com­ not filed a statement, but he is supposed to ha>e filed it. Some mittee busy for months. The operations of thi Manufacturers' of those statements are quite long, showing the amount of Association ramify in a dozen different directions and touch money that has been contributed. I do not know whether " any many other organizations. I favor inYestigating thoroughly. It other thing of value" has been mentioned in the statements, is imvossible to ha 1e too much light, but it is always the game although the law requires that, nor how far back this goes. to bring so many subjects into an inYestigation as to let the I hbpe that this committee will be able to have some scope of fellows who haYe most to fear escape. work that it may perform. It may be desirable to make the l\lr. COOPER. l\lr. Speaker, the amendment offered by the inquiry whether the Republican congressional committee or the gentleman from Kan as [Ur. CAMPBELL], if finally adopted by Democratic congressional committee-up to date we can not the House, will result, unless the Hou e is careful, in precisely make inqufry as to the Bull Moose congressional committee­ what the gentleman from Washington [l\lr. BRYAN] has just hase sent out literature into a district for the purpose of accom­ said ought to be avoided. plishing the defeat or election of i\Iembers of Congre . Now, then, the Senate has the papers in the l\lulhall charges. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Will the gentleman permit? It will be difficult, I presume, at first for the House to get Mr. MANN. Certainly. hold of them. The amendment offered by the gentleman from Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I ham not the slightest doubt Kansas [l\Ir. CAMPBELL] directs the committee to proceed at . fn my own mind but that the purpose which the gentleman once to the investigation of the Anti-Saloon League and other from Oklahoma [l\fr. l\foRGAN] desires to accomplish is fully things; and then it could-probably it would not-say that covered bv the words "improper influence." it had gotten so far into that that it had postponed the l\lulhall Mr. MANN. Well, I am quite content that the committee charges, inYolYing this matter of the alleged corru11tion of the Phould have power to inquire as to any improper influence Members of the House, and so forth, until a later period. from any source whatever, and I only took the floor for the I think what the gentleman from Washington [l\Ir. BRYAN] purpose of thiuking while I was talking as to whether it was has said is well grounded, and that the House ought to direct desirable to have the committee undertake to inquire as to the committee to begin upon these charges which reflect im­ every form of influence which may be exerted by anybody in mediately upon the integrity of the House, practically as a the United States properly in reference to the election or defeat whole, before it proceeds to do anything else. The preamble of a candidate for Congress, either at the polls in November or strikes me as being broad enough, and I regret very much that for nomination. the amendment of the gentleman from Kansas was adopted iu l\Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. I think the amendment pro­ the place at which it was adopted. • posed by the gentleman from Oklahoma [Mr. l\foRGAN] might l\fr. G.J..RRE'.rT of Tennessee. :Mr. Speaker, personally I have tend to confuse rather than to clarify the resolution. no doubt that the primary interest of the House, at this time at l\1r. l\fORGAN of Oklahoma. Mr. Speaker, it occurs to me least, is in the charges in the so-called l\lulhall statement in so that money is only one form of a thing of value that may be far r.s they reflect upon Members of Congress. Not only that, used corruptly to control legislation. I have heard of men but I think the primary duty of the committee is as regards the being given things of value other than money. I see no reason Members of the present Congress who are mentioned in that why this amendment should not be adopted. There might be article. I will say I have no doubt that unless sonie peculiar some quibble about what "money" meant, what it was, what reason or circumstance arises to cause the committee to do it included. Suppose a man were given a check; suppose he otherwise it will probably devote itself to that investigation at were given a draft; suppose he were given something that rep­ the very first. Of course I do not know how that will be, but resents money. It might be contended that such a case was not I assume that that would be the case. within the language of the resolution under which the commit­ Mr. COOPER. Will the gentleman permit an interruption? tee was acting. l\Ir. GARRBTT of Tennessee. Certainly. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. l\Ir. Speaker, I think it is ab­ l\fr. COOPER. The Senate committee has tlie Mulhall papers. solutely coYered by the words "improper influence." I ask for How can the House get them? a vote. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I was about to say that it is The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend- currently reported in the press-that is all the information I ment. ha·re about it-that the Senate committee has possession of the The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. Mulhall papers. Now, I do not know how far the House can Mr. BRYAN. Mr. Speaker, I have an amendment which I go in obtaining them. I do not know whether the Senate com­ wish to offer. mittee has obtained those papers under subpoona or whether '.rhe SPEAKER. 'l'he gentleman from Washington [Mr. they harn simply been turned over by the New York paper. B&YAN] offers an amendment, which the Clerk will report. This resolution does provide that the committee shall have the The Clerk read as follows: right to report at any time. Now, of course, the committee can On page 3, line 5, after the word " heretofore," add the follow1ng : make a partial report or it can make a complete report. "P1·01Jidecl. That the work of the said committee shall be limited to the investigation of the matters referred to in the preamble of this So far as the matter of vindicating oi: condemning l\Iembers resolution until report has been submitted to the House thereon." of the House may be concerned, I have no doubt that the testi­ l\Ir. BRYAN. l\fr. Speaker, there seems to be a unanimous in­ mony which will be taken along that line will be widely pub­ tention on the part of all here to investigate these charges as lished., and will reach all the people of the United States, and quickly and as efficiently and ns effectively as possible. There people will have made up their minds long before the committee are two ways to defeat the purposes of this investigation. One makes its report as to those matters. I think it will be well to is to so spread it out and dissipate it by bringing many foreign leave it to the discretion of the committee. I am in sympathy tllings into it that the committee at the outset could be deluged with the idea that there ought first to be a report as to the with matters entirely immaterial, and thus the investigation of l\Iernbers of thls House who are involved. I do not think there tlle main tllings at issue be delayed until the country and tlle is any doubt about that, but I think it is yery proper to leave House and e>eryl>ody else ha1e become tired of the situation. it to the committee. Another way would be for tlle committee purposely to disregard Mr. HENRY. If the gentleman will allow me, I will state the wishes of the House by arbitrarily smothering the investi- what I know in reference to these papers and about Col. Mul­ ptio~ • hall himself being subpoonaed as a witness before the Senate Now, then, I think that if we compel the committee by this committee. re olution to report on those things that are referred to in the The chairman of the Committee on Rules ha

This telegram · also said that they would request the Senate single thing about this publication in the New York World committee to turn these documents over to the House commit­ and t he Chicago 'l'ribune, known as the l\Iulhall charges? Does tee when they had finished with them, and would urge Col. not the gentleman think it would be well if it were able to go l\Iulhall to appear before the House committee, so that we might on with some other things? The gentleman's amendment is not ha-rn free access to the documents and ha>e Col. l\Iulhall's testi­ _confined to a report upon this proposition first, but it would mony; and I apprehend there will be no difficulty about our absolutely i1revent the committee from examining witnesses on securing the papers whenever we shall need them, or about anything until it has got through with the names of those . hn>ing Col. 1\Iulhall appear before the House committee. mentioned. l\Ir. COOPER I understand the gentleman to say that they l\fr. BRYAN. Here is what the amendment would restrict 'i>iJl be turned oYer to the House when the Senate has finished it to : 'i>ith them. How long does the gentleman think it will take the Whereas there have appeared in recent issues of various newspapers Senate committee to finish with 20,000 letters and telegrams? published in the nited States diyers statements and charges as to the l\Ir. HE~~Y. do not think there will be any practical diffi- exlste!'.lce . and activity C•f a lobby organized by and on behalf of an orga mzation known as the National Association of Manufacturei·s for culty about that. I think we will be able to get the papers the purpose of improperly influencing legislation by Cono-ress the promptly. I.do not think there will be any desire on their part official conduct ~f certain of its members and employees, the appoint­ to depri>e us of the testimony. I am not looking for anything me.t?-t and sele::t10n of .comm.lttees of the House and for other purposes designed. to affect. the mtegrity of the proceedings of the House of Rep­ of that sort. I think they will cooperate with us. In fact, I am resentatives and its Members. sure they will. They will finish as fast as they can, and as soon as they get through with the documents they will turn I submit that Ilepresentati>e SHERLEY would be glae anyone appear or wbo knows anything to s·ubstantiate spent much time in discussing the purpose of the amendment these charges will be glad to start the im-estigation at once. that the gentleman has offered. We were unanimous in the They are Yery broad charges. They enter into nearly every opinion that the fi1·st duty of this committee authorized by this phase of national activity. There are several officers of the resolution was to inquire into the charges affocting tlte integrity National Association of l\Ianufacturers. If one of them is of l\Iembers of this House, and we were of the opinion that a testifying-if l\Ir. Van Cleve is testifying-we can call the committee appointed by the Speaker to carry out the purposes b·easurer or the secretary. The record shows that that asso­ of the resolution would, in the performance of their work, take ciatiou appropriated one half million dollars for purposes of notice of the first duty that they owed as a committee of this education during the period in question. We can call for the House to inquire into the specific charges made against the financial officer of that association to come and tell us about it. l\Iembers now sitting and ascertain the truth or falsity of the That is the subject about which the people want to hear. TP.ey charges alleged against them. But I "-ould not" like to see so do not want to hear about these other multifarious propositions sweeping an amendment as the one offered by the gentleman until we haYe finished with this main subject, and I submit from Washington [l\Ir. BRYAN] adopted at this time, for fear it t~at if for want to time, or becau~ of any of the other sugges­ might be construed into a restriction of the operations of this tions the gentleman has made, this committee narrows the committee as a whole into inquiring only into the Mulhall proposition into an investigation of the Grange or any other· charges, so called. I would be unwilling to spend three days in organization, it can take all summer or all winter on that one the preparation of a resolution authorizing a committee to subject, and we ought not to get started on side issues, but we inquire merely into the charges made by this individual. The ought to get started on the main subject. charges that he made could have been investigated by a reso­ 1\Ir. TOWNER rose. . lution or a motion made from the floor of the House three or The SPEAKER. For what purpose does :he gentleman from four days ago. We haYe prepared a resolution here that calls Iowa rise? for an investigation of any operations by any other associa­ l\fr. TOWNER. l\Ir. Speaker, I move to strike out the last tion or person like those referred to by this individual who word in order to be heard for a few moments. There is still made the charges in certain newspapers. I belie-re that the com­ another reason that, in my judgment, ought to be influential in mittee appointed by this resolution in the performance of its securing the adoption of this amendment offered by the gentle­ duties will take notice of the first thing that should be done, man from Washington, and that is this : It should be remem­ and tllat is to inquire into the charges against l\1embcrs now bered by l\Iembe1;s of this House tha t this resolution contem­ sitting in the House. plates, as it is introduced and as it is being considered origi­ Mr. BRYAN. l\fr. Speaker, I am Yery glad that in offering nally to-day, an investigation of the l\Iulhall charges. It Ehould an amendment of this kind to this resolution I haye offered be remembered that the amendment that has b~n offe1ed here one that receiyes the indorsement of all who have spoken. by the gentleman from Kansas extends that inquiry. It is very Everyone says that the purposes of the amendment are r i<>'ht likely, once we adopt this amendment. that it will be considered and that the idea ought to be carried out, but there seems t; b~ and reported that this House, in order to dissipate this inquiry some hesitancy in incorporating the idea in the resolution. I in order to prolong it, in order, perhaps, to defeat its real pm·: think that while it may be correct that all these other things pose, which means the investigation of the Mulhall charges is ought to be investigated, we ought to go into this job face fore­ going to inYestigate everything else, and so come to these l\iul­ most, we ought to go into it right side up, and we ought not to hall charges after the witnesses may haYe disappeared, after back into it from the outside. We ought to ta.ke these chnrges the interest by the public in the matter may haYe subsided, and investigate them. The gentleman who preceded me [l\1r. after the real object and purpose of this inquiry may have been CAMPBELL] says that he would not care to spend three days' forgotten. time preparing a resolution to in--restigate the charges by this _Now, it seems ~o me, 1\Ir. Speaker, that it would be certainly man Mulhall, but the President of the United States just a few wise for us, havmg enlarged the scope of the inquiry, at the days a.go made practically the same charge, only he did not men­ same time to say distinctly that this matt er of the Mulhall tion any names. He said that there was an insidious lobby here. charges shall be investigated and reported on fin~t. [Applanse.] The things that 1\Ir. Mulhall says have occurred, if they have Further than that, 1\Ir. Spe!lker, I me no difficulty whatever in would constitute an insidious lobby. We are now confrontin..; regard to having plenty to do for this committee. As is sug­ this proposition by an amendment which carries out and. em~ gested by the gentleman from Washington [l\Ir. BRYAN], we can bodies the ideas and purposes of the Homre, and why it can not very easily commence by all the Members of Congres3 who have be put into the resolution I can not see. been referred to in this investigation appearing and testifyin(J' . l\Ir. GAURETT of Tennessee. l\fr. Speaker, will the "entle- before this committee. The - Senate has already had arnpl~ man ~W? h opportunity to dispose of part of the matter, and it can be l\Ir. BRYAN. Certainly. turned oyer to us as it may be needed. There will be no diffi­ 1\Ir. GARRE'l"'T . of Tennes~ee. Of course, the gentleman culty whate--rer in this committee to-morrow commencing upon knows that it, is impossible to tell, until after the committee is this investigation and finding plenty of work to occupy it until raised, just what it can do, to begin with, just llow·it can go to it shall ha-ve finished its investigation of these particular work. It is impossible to tell whether or not the committee can ,charges, and then the committee ~ill have all the time for the obtain witnesses immediately. This is a very broad and other charges. s.weepi.J;ig resolution. It is going to take a long time in all l\Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. r hope the gentleman will per­ probability to de>elop the testimony and work out the report mit the committee to go oYer until Monday. tlrnt is called for under the broad provisions of the r esolution. Mr. TOWNER. I am Yery glad to adopt the suggestion of the Suppose it should be a matter of a week or 10 days before gen tleman from Tennessee. I accept the gentleman's suO'ges0 - thnt committ~e \'\·ere nlJle to reach a ~-rit_ness .who could tell. a tion. That is all, l\1r. Speaker. 2328 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.-. JULY 5,_-

1\Ir. MA.1'.'N. Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the amend­ this ought to be done. If the committee withholds its report ment again reported. until everything within the purview of this resolution has been The SPEAKER. The Chair will submit to the gentleman investigated, I say to you that we will have another congres­ from Washington [l\Ir. BRYAN] if he is not trying to get this sional election long before we get through, and gentlemen ought amendment in at a place he did not desire to have it appear? . not to be obliged to go before their respectj.ve communities with Mr. BRYAN. I originally intended to put it in another para­ this cloud hanging over them if they are innocent, and I believe graph, but then I altered my plan because I thought I would most, if not all, of them are innocent. They will have to bear pull the thing off a little ·bit earlier. this stigma and be confronted in their district by men who are The SPEAKER. It seems to be inserted after the word willing to repeat these slanders, without an acquittal at the " heretofore." hands of their colleagues, which they are entitled to if innocent. Mr. BRYAN. The reading clerk came to me and "\\e chn..nged I believe, in justice to the Members of this House, in justice to that. • distinguished gentlemen who are no longer Members-many of Mr. MANN. That is the reason I asked to have the amend­ them from that side, too, Republicans, but for whom I entertain ment again reported. a high regard and in whose personal integrity I have an abiding Mr. BRYAN. As I suggested the amendment it was to page faith-that we ought to insist upon an early report, a report 3, after the word " heretofore," in line 5, but we changed it to be made as soon as a searching investigation can be made. so as to make it follow the ·word "whatever," in line 16, Mr. MANN. Will the gentleman yield for a question? ~~2 . Mr. RUCKER. Yes ; I will. 1\Ir. MANN. I ask to have the amendment again reported, if l\Ir. MANN. It is now the 5th day of July, and no eledion the gentleman has located where it is to go. for some time to come. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will again report the amendment. l\Ir. RUCKER. Less than a year. The Clerk read as follows: • Mr. i\IA.NN. Less than a year. Does not the gentleman be­ Page 2, line 16, after the word " whatever," add the following: lieve that this committee appointed should go to work and "Provided, The work of said commlttee shall be limited to an investi­ be able to make a partial report at any time and a final report gation of the matter referred to in the preamble of this resolution until at the time Congress meets on the 1st of December, in any report has been submitted to the House thereon." event? Mr. MANN. l\I.r. Speaker, I am very bitterly opposed to this Mr. RUCKER. I believe if the committee would go to work amendment. I can not understand the object for which it is it could make a final report by the date suggested, but I am presented. Certainly gentlemen are not afraid of having the in favor of requiring it to act with reasonable promptness, as investigation go beyond the influence of the National Associa­ I believe the country demands to know if the accusations tion of .Manufacturers, but that is what the amendment means. against Members are true or false. I am very much in sym­ Why are gentlemen so anxious to confine this investigation to pathy wHh wha.t has been said by the gentleman from Texas the activities of one out of many associations who have been [Mr. Dms]. I doubt the propriety of so many investigations. lobbyists, it is said, in Washington, or at least used influence It begins to look like the chief industry of this Congress is to in the country outside of Washington? Why are gentlemen so investigate itself. There are too darned many of them. [Laugh­ desirous of preventing the committee, when it has obtained a ter.] I believe that if we would adjourn once in a while to lead in this investigation which goes outside of the Mulhall attend somebody's funeral and thereby give congressional ap­ charges, from following up that lead? Why are gentlemen so proval to the circumstances attending the death, it would be anxious when it has .obtained information not covered by the better than to have so many investigations. I do not mean a Mulhall charges to say, " Stop here; there is nothing in the congressional funeral, either. [Laughter.] · Mulhall charges. On this subject wait until the witnesses have Mr. O.A.MPBELL. I would not consent to the limitations put disappeared." But that is what this amendment means. The upon this committee by this amendment. It is no investigation countrv is not so much interested in the Mulhall charges, not so at alL But to require the committee to report first, or as much interested in the specific Members of Congress who have speedily as possible, upon the Mulhall charges, I would con­ been named as it is interested to know whether congressional sent to an amendment of that kind, although I do not think it legislation is prevented or secured through the improper in­ is necessary. I am willing to trust a committee o.f this House fluence of one or a dozen associations in the country, or whether to perform its duty properly, but I will not handicap that com­ Members of Congress in the main act according to their best mittee before it is appointed by saying you can investigate right judgment as to what is right and what is wrong. I am not up to this place, where it states, and there stop. That is what willing to have a committee of this House appointed with the this resolution does. propositicn that it is throttled at the outset; that it is gagged Mr. RUCKER. The gentleman from Kansas [Mr. CAMP· before it is born; that when it finds something it must stop; BELL] knows that I would go quite as far as he would in unty­ that when it le:trns about something of value then it must quit ing the hands of this committee. until the opportunity has passed. Let us trust in the judgment Mr. CAMPBELL. Then do not restrict it. of the committee, but give it power and hold it responsible for Mr. RUCKER. I am not doing that. But, on the other a thorough and complete investigation in order that the country hand, I will not stand with the gentleman to block a report may have not a report of a committee, which probably the coun­ and conceal publicity. try will not pay much attention to, but a report of the investi­ Mr. BRYAN. lr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? gation as it proceeds which will be paid attention to by the The SPNA..KER. There is not anybody that has the :floor. people of the country. [Cries of "Vote l" "Vote I "J Mr. RUCKER. Mr. Speaker, I find myself tmable to agree Mr. BRYAN. Mr. Speaker, I just wanted to make a cor­ with the distinguished gentleman from Illinois [Mr. MANN], rection. with whom I most always agree. I believe the amendment, or The SPEAKER. The gentleman is not entitled to make an­ some amendment carrying that principle into thls resolution, other speech on the amendment until everybody else has spoken ought to be adopted. This resolution as it stands now authorizes who desires to speak. an investigation in whatever may be wrong or alleged to be Mr. MURDOCK: Mr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that wrong in the demeanor or conduct of Members of this House and the gentleman ~om Washington [Mr. BRYAN] shall have one ex-Members of Congress 5 years, 10 years, 20 years, or eyen 50 minute. years in the past. Mr. BRYAN. There is certainly no necessity of asking unani­ I have to say that I have no objection to the scope or extent mous consent when nobody elM wants to speak, according to the of the investigation, none whatever. If the committee appointed Speaker's ruling. by the Speaker under this resolution completes all the work The SPEAKER. The Chair must first find out. If nobody outlined in the resolution before it makes a report, the public desires to speak, he will recognize the gentleman. Otherwise may conclude that an effort is being made to conceal or hide the gentleman from Washington can not speak again on the from public view the conduct of some Members of Congress. same amendment. The report, in that event, would be entirely too remote, too long­ l\lr. GARRETT of Tennessee. In fact, Mr. Speaker, the gen­ delayed. I do not believe this resolution means to conceal" any tleman from Washington [Mr. IlRYANJ has already spoken fact, tie the hands of the committee, or to foreclose the powers twice. of the committee and thus prevent a full investigation of the Mr. BRYAN. I simply desire, Mr. Speaker, to make a cor· alleged improper influences ex.erted by the National Association rection. of Manufacturers or by any other associations or persons, but, The SPEAKER. What is the correction that the gentleman on the contrary, to command an immed1ate investigation and wants to make? report, as speedily as it can be made, of every fact and act which Mr. BRYAN. The gentleman from Kansas made a sugges­ it is charged, directly or by insinuation, affects the character, tion-- integrity, or rectitude of :Members of Congress. And I believe The SPEAKER. What gentleman from Kansas? 1913. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2329

Mr. BRYA.i..~. The gentleman from Kansas, Mr. CAMPBELL, Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. · I do not see how it could be made a suggestion that my amendment was designed to stop clearer. It reads: the investigation, or that the effect of it was to stop the in­ Whether improper influence has been exerted by said association, or vestigation. by any other association- The SPEAKER. The Chair is aware of that, but under the And so forth- rules the gentleman can not make another speech. to secure the appointment, selection, or defeat of membe1·s of the com- Mr. lIEJNRY. Mr. Speaker, I desire to say a few words and mittees of the House, or any of them. - indorse e\erything that was said by the gentleman from Illinois Mr. l\ffiRDOCK. It seems to me, if the gentleman from Ten­ [Ur. MANN] about this restriction being placed on the com­ nessee will permit me, that the language that he has placed in mittee. We have gone ahead and provided for a far-reaching there does not do the thing he intends to be done, which is to in\estigation, and now to limit and to restrict it by the adop­ make an inquiry into the defeat or selection of Members who tion of this amendment would be to do an unwise thing. aspire to appointments on committees. Let us assume that the Speaker of the House will appoint an Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. The gentleman thinks that able, courageous, wise commission that will take up this subject might apply to the selection or defeat of Members in their dis­ and begin the investigation and go into it and conduct it prop­ tricts? erly. We have the right to assume that the gentlemen who will Mr. MURDOCK. Yes; and not to appointments on com­ be placed on this committee will know their duty and see to mittees. the performance of it at once. l\Ir. RUCKER. Is it intended by this paragraph to confine I maintain that there ought not to be any restriction put this investigation to efforts to procure the selection or appoint­ upon them after we mark out the lines of their duty in the reso­ ment or defeat of men to committee assignments in this par­ lution providing for the inquiry. Therefore, I am opposed to ticular Congress or in other Congresses? the amendment offered by the gentleman from the State of Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. There is nothing which limits Washington [l\fr. BRYAN] and shall resist it, because I believe it. It says "of the House or any of them." I should say by that this investigation should be a wide one; should be one the ordina1·y reasonable construction, taken in connection with without any limitation or restriction whene\er we strike any the rest of the resolution, that it applies to any Congress. set of circumstances that will throw light upon these charges Mr. RUCKER. Ordinarily referring to ''committees of the and allegations that have been made in the public press. There­ House" means the committees of this House, not of the ~ast fore I oppose this amendment, and insist that we let this reso­ Congress. · lution stand in its full force and vigor, as we have amended it Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. But it does not say "of this up to the present time. [Applause and cries of "Vote I" House." • "Vote!"] Mr. RUCKER. I think the proper construction should be -Mr. CARTER. l\fr. Speaker, I ask unanimous consent that that it has reference to this Congress or any other Congress, the amendment be again reported. in view of the fact that the investigation is to be in reference The SPEAKER. Without objection, the amendment offered to other matters and other Congresses. by the gentleman from Washington [Mr. BRYAN] will again be Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I think there will be no trouble reported. about the construction of it. The amendment was again read. Mr. RUCKER. I think there may be. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Iowa [Mr. TOWNER] Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. There is no objection to mak- withdraws his pro forma amendment. The question is on agree­ ing it clear. . ing to the amendment offered by the gentleman from Washing­ Mi·. DECKER. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman from Tennes­ ton [l\fr. BRYAN], which has just been reported the second time. see yield to me! The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected.. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I yield to the gentleman from The SPEAKER. The Clerk will read. Missouri. The Clerk read as follows: · .Mr. DECKER. Would it not carry out your intention better Said committee is also directed to inquire whether improper influence if you should say : has been exerted by said association or by any . other association, cor­ By an~ other associatio:r;i. corporation, or person to secure or prevent. poration, or person to secure the appointment or selection of the com­ the appomtment or selection of any Representative to any committee mittees of the House, or any of them. of the House. l\fr. COOPER rose. l\Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. I think that would be very Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. l\Ir. Speaker, I have a commit­ good. If the gentleman will formulate that amendment I will tee amendment, which I send to the Clerk's desk. be glad to accept it in lieu of the amendment which I offered. The SPEAKER. The Chair will reco_gnize first the gentleman Mr. Speaker, the gentleman from Missouri [l\Ir. DECKER] de­ from Tennessee [l\Ir. GARRETT], who offers a committee amend­ sires to offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute. ment, which the Clerk will report. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Missouri [Mr. DECKER] The Clerk read as follows: desires to offer an amendment in the nature of a substitute. Page 2, line 20, strike out the word " or " and insert a comma in lieu The gentleman will state his amendment. thereof, and insert after the word " selection " the following words, in line 20, page 2: "or defeat of ME!mbers." l\Ir. DECKER. In line 19, page 2, after the word "secure," Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. 1\Ir. Speaker, if that amend­ insert the words " or prevent the appointment or selection of ment should be adopted, the paragraph would read as follows: any Representative to any committee of the House." The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment. Said committee is also directed to inqufre whether improper influ­ ence bas been exerted by said association, or by any other associationl The Clerk read as follows : corporation, or person, to secure the appointment, selection, or defeac Page 2, line · 19, after the word "secure," insert the words "or of members of the committees of the Ilouse, or any of them. prevent the appointment or selection of any Representative to any com­ The resolution as originally drawn simply applied to the elec­ mittee of the House." tion of Members and not to efforts to defeat any particular The SPEAKER. .As the Chair understands it, that is offered Member. as a substitute for the amendment of the gentleman from Ten­ l\Ir. MURDOCK. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? nessee. Is that correct? The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Tennessee yield to Mr. DECKER. Yes. the gentleman from Kansas? Mr. RUCKER. I offer to amend the substitute by adding at Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Yes. the end of it the words "in this or any other Congress." Mr. MURDOCK. Does the gentleman intend to confine the The SPEJAKER. The Clerk will report the amendm~nt. effect of his amendment to the election or defeat of Members The Clerk read as follows: on committees- or Members aspiring to appointment on com­ Amend the amendment by adding at the end thereof ti.1: words "in mittees? this or any other Congress." l\Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. "Of members of the commit­ !\fr. 1\IANN. Mr. Speaker, I should like to have the amend­ tees of the House, or any of them " is the way it reads. ment reported again. Mr. MURDOCK. The aspirations of Members for appoint­ The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment of ment to committees-is that the idea? the gentleman from Tennessee [l\1r. GARRETT] and then the Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. The idea is to see what efforts substitute of the gentleman from Missouri. have been made to defeat men :::.s well as to secure their selec­ Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, I withdraw the tion. amendment which I offered, and ask that the amendment Mr. MURDOCK. In committee appointments? offered by the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. DECKER] be con­ Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Yes. sidered as the original amendment. Mr. MURDOCK. I do not know whether the language con­ The SPEAKER. That makes it an amendment in the first Teys that or not. degree. 2330 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5,

The Clerk wm repo:rt the amendment offered by the gentle- ene.e. I think it ought t6. he able to report the names of those mun from Missouri. · who compose that lObby, if there bas ei!n one in existence. The Clerk read as follows : Mr. HENRY. Mr. Speaker, I think that is provided for, any- Page, 2, line 19, after the word "secure,'" insert the words "or way. If the committee finds there has been a lobby or is a prevent the appointment or selection of any Representative to any lobby, of course it will include the facts indicating what the committee of the House." Mr. RrrcKmR offered the following amendment to t:ne amendment: lobby is and of whom it is compo ed.. I do not think it is. neces- Add, after the word "House,"' the words "in this oc any other , saJ!y tO' insert that language. Congress." 1\1.r. MANN. Suppose the- committee- should find that there Mr. RUCKER.. In this or any former Congress. · was a lobby consisting of alJ gf the ret ll merchants in the Mr• .MANN. I should like to inquire wJlether it is any part United States of one Pfil"tlcular kind or of all the dairymen in of the ameDdment to· strike out lines 20 and 21, or whether the United States~ or of all of llie wholesale: men of one kind it is intended to leave them in~ and to- insert this amendment tn the United States, wo.uld it be. neces~ary to publish a. list of between lines 19 and 20. nll of those people? M.r. GARRE TT o:r · Tennessee. Lines 20 and 21 ought to be- Mr. HENRY. I would not think o-. stricken out. 1 Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Under the amendment 1>ro- The SPEAKER. '!'he amendment of the gentleman from Mis- posed by the gentleman from Kentucky that would be requirebbyists. insert in lieu thereof what has been read. Mr: MANN. I do. not understand thi-s resolu.tion refers to The SPEAKER.. The gentleman ID(}Ves to strike out lines 20 maintaining a }()bby in. the Capital at Washington. That is not and 21 on page 2, and insert in lieu thereof the matter just what it says. The lobby may be maintained at o:r in rend. , New York. or anywhere else throughout the country. The question is on the amendment of the gentleman from Mr. BARKLEY. Of course, that is in li>road general. terms; Missouri [Mr. RucKER.l to the: amendment. of the gentleman but the ob.ject of this amendment is to re.port. the names of per- from Missouri [Mr. DECKER]. , SOllS composing the lobl:>y who a.lie atatio-ned here fo.r the- pur- The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. pose oi influencing legislation. •The SPEAKER. The question now is on the amendment o.f M.:r-. MANN. I think that if some :partieular individna1 here the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. DECKER.] as amended by t.00 were identified as' a lobbyist, that tact would be reported, with- amendment of the gentleman from Missouri (Mr. RUCKER}. out any specific directions, but the' committee may find that the The· amendment as amended was agreed to. National! Association o.f Manufacturers and its members consti- Mr COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I move to strike out the last tute a lobby, as they probably do. , two words. I desire to ask the gentleman from Texas: Ol"' the The SPEAKER.. The Clerk will report the amendment. gentleman from '.I'enne.ssee a question. This last amendment is The Clerk. read as folla s : made to apply to the committees o.:r Members of any prior Page 3, line 1, a.fter the word "Congress," insert the words • and U House? so, the names of the persons composing sDCh lob.by." lli. GARRETT of 'l'ennessee. Ye~ ~e questio-n was taken and tbe amendment a :rejected. Mr. COOPER. Are the provisions from line 9. to line 16 OD ML GRAHAM of Illinois. Mr. Speaker. I desire to suggest a the same pa~e not limited to this Honse, and ought they not, change in the: constructioD of the last clause in the pru·agraph. in express language, be made to apply to previous Houses just .., ii it he found to exist at all now or hereto.fore." Th-e words as this last paragraph was by the amendment f>f' the gentle- "at all" are- redundant. 01 course, if it exists it exists at ail, man from Missouri [Mr. DECKER] 1 and"the language "if it be found to exist heretofore" is unfor- Mr. GARR.ETr of Tennessee. Mr. Speaker, :r will say thls tunate. I move as a substitute for t.hat the foll-owing,~ "if it to the gentleman. So far as I am concerned, I thlnk the lan- be. found to exist no.w or to have existed heretofore." guage- offered by the gentleman from Missouri. Judge. R.UOKEB, The. SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the ameL.dment. was reaJ:ly unnecessn.ry. I think it applied without that Ian- The Clerk read as follows: guage, and I think the paragraph to which the gentleman from Page 3, llne 4, strike out the words " if It be found to e:x:ist at all Wisconsin has just referred does undoubtedly apply to past :~: ~ ~~r~~o;~r;~J:dd =t:r~J~eu thereof "if it be found to exist Congresses. Mr. COOP:ER. Will tne gentleman notice the language in. The question was taken, and the a..mendment was. agreed to. the preamble-, and it, of course, will be used in constrning the The Clerk :read as follows: resolution- Said' committee, or any subcommittee thereof. may sit m the- city of Washington or elsewhere to conduct i't& investigations during the ses~ For the purpose of lmprope:irly influencing legislation. by Congr~ sions of the House or recess of Congress. It shall hav~ po.wer to em· the official conduct of certain of rts Members and employees, the ap­ ploy such legal or clerical assistance as may be deemed necessary, to pointment and selection of c-0lll1Ilittees Elf the House, and for other­ send tor pers<>ns. a.rut paper , and administer oath~ and shall have the purp.oses-- r:tght to report at any time. And: so forth. Wonld that apply exclusively to the present ML LEVY. Mr. Speaker, I move- to strike out the words~ in House? line 9 page 3, "such legal or." I think, in this case, the distin­ Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I think not at nI1 guished Speaker will appoint on the committee some prominent Mr. MANN. I call attention to the fact that the preamble legal gentleman of this Honse who- has ab.illty to examine and conld not refer to the present Honse, because tbe preamble cross-examine witnesses. I belieYe the members of the com­ refers to charges in the newspapers~ and they specific.any refer mittee themselves ought to exn.mine these witnesses. I do to prior Congresses. not belie~eo tn retaining legal co.unsei at great expense of :from MY. GARRET'I' of Tennessee. The idea in the mtnd ot the $15,00() to $25,.00Q o.r more, as it may cost. I am opposed to committee was that the preamble applied to past Congresses · l'etaining any legal cowisel. We have had enough of that in as well as the present. ' the past. Mr. COOPER. Having that understanding, then lines 9 to 16, Ml'. HENRY. l'IIr~ Speaker, I am n0t Slll"Prised a.t the gen­ which simply use the expression " the Ilouse of Representa­ tleman from New York offering that mendment to st:rike out tives," would be construed as applicable to Members of· any the provision authorizing this committee ro employ c.onnsel. prior Houses. In the first place, he is oppostjl to this r-esolution.. aruI he has Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. Undoubtedly. stated that the passage: of this :resolution ould create a panic. The er.erk read as follows: Mr. LEVY. N€>, no; nc;>, sir. · Mr. HENRY. I think it is a stampede, not a panic. Said committee shall also inquire whether the- sald National Ass.<>­ cintion of Mumrfaeturers or any other organization or corporation or Mr. LEVY. No, sir-; I meant to. say if you. m-uke a broad nssocia.tion or person does now maintain or has heretofore ma.intruned 81 Investigation,, which I understood thi.s resolution to be to take lobby for the rurpose of influencing legislation by Congress nnd aseer· in everything-money investigation and e- erytbing-it would tain and repor to what extent and in what manner, if at all, Legislation haS' een improperly effected or prevented by reason o-f the exhltence at create trouble as it did last year. Nowr we have. had the expe1i­ such lobby, if it be found to exist at all now or heretofore. en:e.e: o.f last year in eon.nection with. the- money investigation, llr. :IlARKLEY. .Mr. SJ;)eaker, I offer the following amend­ and-- Mr. HENRY. How! ment: Pnge 3~ line 1, after the word "' Congress," insert: Mr. LEVY. In the money question. Mr. Untermyer acted And if so, the- nam~s of the persons composing such lobby. as a district attorney. He was biased and d1d not the proper Under the resruutiODt as. drawn here the committee is only questions for that c:€lmlllittee nmr did he help them. H the authorizetmic and says, the gentleman from New York has been opposed to this stood by the whole country. resolution. I want to say here that no man in this Rouse, I Mr. HE.."\"RY. What .Per cent of interest did they get? care not what his politics may be, is any more enthusiastic for .Mr. LEVY. It was no question of interest; there was no this re-solution than I am. I have been for it since I read in money. New York paid out every dollar to the banks of the the press last Sunday evening the Mulhall exposure. But I country-- can not and I will not remain idly by withOut defending the 1\fr. HENRY. Where did they get t.he money? s.mendment offered by the gentleman from New York [Mr. ~ .. r. LEVY. From bankers and the banks of New York City LEVY]. I do not care whether he is for or against the resolu­ :ind the Nation. They came to the rescue~ und that is what tion. •.ro me that is nothing. But in my judgment it is a stayed the panic. sti~111a cast upon this House, when we plead guilty in tbls Th~ SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment of­ resolution-before the country-to the charge that we have fered by the gentleman from New York [Mr. LEVY]. not legal talent enough in this House to conduct this iJrvesti­ .Mr. HENRY. Mr. Speaker, I want to be heard a little fur­ gation nnd to explore it to, the nbsolute bottom. [Applause.] tller. I simply wanted to de\elop my friend's side of the case; I nm unalterably opposed to the reckle s, heedless, wild, ex­ that is all; and I allowed him to ask a question. I contend that travagant expenditure of the people's money for such a. purpose, after we have made this resolution broad enough to inaugurate when we -0ught tu assume that burden ourselves and bear it 11 exhaustive investigation we ·ought to pnt every power and upon our own shoulder . Why, who has forgotten the debate every legitimate influence at their command. We ought to give upon the floor of this House when the Money Trust investigat­ them an abundance of clerical assistance, and ~ they need legal ing committee made its report and the criticisms upon i\Ir. assistance tre ought to allow them to employ counsel. I have no Untermyer for assuming entire jurisdiction of that committee? counsel in mind. It would not make any differenee to me what l\Ir. MANN. l\1r. Speaker, will the gentleman yield for a lawyers might be employed in this investigation, but I do know question? tlrnt the membership of this House, busy as it is '7ith official Mr. COX. Yes. duties and with questions of patronage anu with the daily Mr. MANN. In that cnse there was a limitation of the cost 0 routine of its work here, these seven l\lembers will not h at"e the in the resolution originally passed. Subsequently they asked time to give this question all the attention that it requlres. for $25,000 or $80,000 more, and it was granted, and there was For yea.rs and years we have been hearing of invisible gov­ a great deal of criticism in consequence. In this resolution ernment. We have been hearing of government by special in­ th·ere is no limitation of cost? terests, and all those things, and now when we ha\e a direct Mr. COX. None in the world. charge here by two of the great newspapers of this country that l was not a member of the committee that investigated thnt a. greut association of manufacturers, that certain men, have trust, but if I had been I would absolutely ha~e refused to be combined themselves together to fix the committees of this botmd by the questions of l\Ir. Untermyer. As a Representa­ House, to influence Representatives and Senators, to elect men tive in Oongress owing a duty to my constituency, I deny the to office, and to defeat them, I say we ought to put it in the right of any committee to employ lawyers and counsel to come power of this committee to employ one or two or the greatest in and conduct that investigation in its ab olute entirety. lawrers of this country to ta.ke up the 20,000 telegrams illld Mr. DIES. Ur. Speaker, will the gentleman yield for a letters-- question? Ir. DIES. Will the gentleman yield! The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Indiana yield to 1\Ir. HENRY. Not for the present. I say that we ought to em· the gentleman from Texas? ploy them to take up the 20,000 letters and telegrmns and docu· :Mr. COX. For a question. ments and papers, and study the case as a lawyer should study a Mr. DIES. Speaking of the Money Trust and the .fifteen-odll great case, and prepare it for this committee in order that they thousand dollars paid to our Hebrew brother, Mr. Unterrnyer, may elicit the proper information. If there ever was n com­ by the parties engaged in conducting that investigation, I want mittee appointed by the Senate or the House where they need to ask the gentleman this question: Does he now know anything the authority, this is a case where it should occur. To me it is more about the Money Trust than he knew and everybody else perfectly plain that we should go to the bottom of these t1•uns• knew before that investigation? actions and let our im·estigation strike whei·e it may. If 1t 1\Ir .. COX. Not as the result of the brain power of Mr. Unter­ strikes anyone on the other side of the House or on this side, myer; no. If I were appointed a member of this investigating Democrat, Republican, or Bull Mooser, or those belonging to committee I would n-0t vote for lawyers to supervise the ques­ any other political party, let in the sunlight of publicity nnd let tions to be propounded to these lobbyists. I would refuse to the American people know whether or not this in\1sible go1-N"n­ let them censor my qu~stions, and I believe that any man whom ment bas done these things. the SI>enker of this House will appoint upon that committee Oh, it -i all well enough to say thn.t we ha·rn nble la:wyers will feel the same way. I nm in faYOr of nppointing seT'en that can be put on this committee. That is txua We ha\e .able l\fe.rubers or this House, illld I care not whom the Speaker ::tp· lawyers iu this llouse. They have their duties as Rep1-esenta­ points. I know he will appoint uren of ability nnd throw the ti1es, .und '.\\hat we ought to do is to authorize them to employ J.'eSI)Onsibility upon them, and then we will hat"e a full und la,"i·yer to study this case exh::i.usttvely and present th.e fncts cbmplete investiga.tlon. and follow up e>ery lead a.s it oceurs in order tllil.t the i:o.vesti- fr. RAGS.UALE. 1\fr. Spenker, "·ill 1..he gentleman yield? CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HO TI SE. JULY 5,

The SPEAKER. Does tlle .gentleman from Indiana yield to a power which dominates or influences the action of tl1is Honse. the gentleman from Son th Carolina? This committee are not authorized to investiaate any invi ible 1\fr. COX. I ha-ve not the time now. government, except in so far as it assumes tangible form and Here is what you won1d have if you hire lawyers-you might shape and attempts to influence by improper methods, motives, have this condition brought upon you : The members of that and purposes the official action of this Ilou~e in matters which committee will feel that their power is superseded by some have heretofore come before it. That is the question, and not lawyer. They will undertake to cast about and throw the the question of any invisible government. responsibility upon some hired attorney, who is to get $25,000 l\Ir. 1\!ANN. A parliamentary inquiry. or $30,000, or perhaps $50,000 before the investigation closes. The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state it. Mr. HENRY. 1\fr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield to me Mr. 1\fANN. Under the rule, is debate on this amendment for a question? exhausted? · The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Indiana yield to The SPEAKER. Of course, it is. the gentleman from Texas? l\!r. 1\IANN. Then let us have a vote on it. Mr. COX. Yes. The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment. l\Ir. HENRY. Does not the gentleman understand that this The Clerk read as follows: only leaves it to the discretion of the committee to employ Page 3, line 9, strike out the words " legal or." counsel if they deem it necessary? Mr. HAY. Mr. Speaker, I move to strike out the last word. Mr. COX. I understand that thoroughly; but I refuse to I am in favor of the amendment offered by the gentleman from leave it to the discretion of the committee. First let the Speaker New York, and I can hardly agree with the argument ad\anced appoint his committee. against it by the gentlP.man from Texas. The gentleman from The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman from Indiana Texas [1\Ir. HENRY] seems to assume that unless counsel is em­ has expired. ployed we will not get at the facts. In other words, he charges Mr. COX. Mr. Speaker, I ask for two minutes more. that facts would be smothered unless we employed an attorney. :Mr. RAGSDALE. I object, Mr. Speaker. He said he wanted the light of day thrown upon all these ques­ The SPEAKER. The gentleman from South Carolina objects. tions to be in\estigated by this committee. I do not know any Mr. S~IALL. Mr. Speaker, I do not think the merits of this people to whom I would rather trust the great task of examin­ amendment can be obscured by attacking the attitude of the ing into these questions than seven Members of this House. gentleman from New York [Mr. LEVY] as to this resolution in [Applause.] Who is most interested in bringing these things its entirety. to light? Who is most interested in having the light of day Mr. LEVY. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman allow me to thrown upon all these charges which have been made against interrupt him for one minute? the membership of this House? It is the membership of this l\lr. SMALL. Not now. I am in favor of the amendment. House; and the agents appointed by tbe Speaker of this Hou e There is no ground upon which the employment of an attorney will be the men who abo\e all others will be in favor of throw­ to assist committees can be justified as existing in this case. ing the light of day upon all of these different questions. There is no expert legal knowledge required. There is no such 1\Ir. Speaker, we do not want an attorney to tell ris how to degree of labor or investigation as ought to be put upon an attor­ conduct this investigation. If it is true that this investigation ney; no labor which can not well be undertaken by members should be turned over to a.n attorney, why not let the Speaker of the committee themselves. of this House appoint an attorney or attomeys, and let them do Besides that, l\Ir. Speaker, if there was ever a committee in it, and let us be their witnesses, or whatever else they choo e which it was inappropriate to authorize the employment of an to call upon us for? attorney, it is this committee. Mr. HEl'TRY. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? This committee is authorized to investigate charges which Mr. HAY. I will for a question. affect the integrity of the House; and to say to the country Mr. HENRY. The gentleman does not understand that I that such a committee must have the assistance of an outsider, said this committee would turn the investigation over to an an attorney, in order to prepare the committee to investigate attorney, does he? the questions and the charges affecting the integrity of its mem­ Mr. HAY. No. bership, and of the body as a whole, is a reflection upon the Mr. HENRY. I only said that the attorney would be under House and upon the committee. [Applause.] the direction of the committee and would aid in this investiga­ Mr. Speaker, there is not 1.he slightest justification for this tion under the di·rection of this committee. resolution to carry with it the authority or the option upon the l\Ir. HAY. The gentleman insisted, or rather said, that in part of the committee to employ any legal assistance. Mention order that the facts might not be smothered, it was necessary was made of the thousands of documents that would be sub­ to empfoy an attorney. mitted, all of which would be required to be analyzed. Why, Mr. HENRY. Yes; smothered by some witnesses evading Mr. Speaker, that is provided for. No ·Member of the House process of the committee, where the committee could not follow will object to the committee having ample clerical assistance, them up. such assistance as can assemble and analyze any volume of Mr. HAY. Has the gentleman so low an opinion of the legal testimony or record evidence which may be submitted to the ability of this House that he does not think it is equal to the committee, so as to avojd imposing upon the committee any cross-examination of any witness who might appear before undue burden of that character.· I am surprised that the Com­ this committee? mittee on Rules, in bringing in this resolqtion; should have 1\Ir. HENRY. That is not the question. If the gentleman considered for a moment that a committee of this character, to were on this committee, would he feel that he had all of the inquire into the integrity of the House, should even be author­ time to devote to it-- ized to employ counsel to assist it in the performance of its Mr. HAY. Yes; I would. If I were on this committee, which delicate, important, and responsible duties. I sincerely trust will not be the case, I would feel that it was :Mr. HENRY. Will the gentleman yield for a minute? my duty to devote all of my time, all of my energy, all of my 1\fr. SM.ALL. Certainly. brains to giving to the work of this committee the utmost dili­ Mr. HEJ\TRY. The inquiry is not so much to exonerate Mem­ gence that I could. bers who are charged. '.rhe Members can exonerate themselves Mr. HENRY. I certainly hope the Speaker will put the gen- in 30 minutes when this committee is convened for action. That tleman upon the committee. is not the side of the question I am looking at. I know these Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? gentlemen will clear themselves very speedily. It does not take Mr. HAY. Certainly. any lawyer to do that, but there is the other great question over Mr. MANN. Does not the gentleman belie'Ve that if we want and beyond that-the question of this invisible government, of a speedy investigation that goes to the bottom of the matter, these men who have tried for the last 20 or 25 years to dominate we not only better not have an attorney employed, but better the affairs of legislation. That is what we want ventilated:, and keep the attorneys off the committee? [Laughter.] I want this committee to get back of that. I have no fears Mr. HAY. No; I do not believe that. I belie\e it will be about how the Members will come out of this matter. 'l'hey can very much better for a speedy investigation not to employ an defend themselves. There is no question of reflection on them, attorney, but I believe that there ought to be lawyers here on but it is a question of getting into a broader field and ascer­ the committee-not all lawyers, but some lawyers. taining the activities of this great National Association of Mr. MANN. But if they were not on the committee at all, Manufacturers and other special interests that have been gov­ we would learn more in quicker time. erning this country. [Applause.] Mr. HAY. That may be the gentleman's opinion, but it is not Mr. SMALL. I did not yield for a speech, Mr. Speaker. The mine. For the reasons I have given I do not believe it is neces­ argument for the authorization or employment of counsel in this sary, and I do not believe it will be right to employ an attorney case can not be justified by speaking of an invisibl~ g~vernment, in an investigation of this character. 1913. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2333

l\1r. DIES. l\Ir. Sp.eaker, I mo>e to strike out the last two l\I.r. HENRY. Mr. Speaker, I demand tellers. words. This impresses me as did another case; and I do not, of The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas demands tellers. course, mean this in reference to my colleague from Texas [Mr. Mr. l\IANN. Mr. Speaker, if the gentleman is going to delay H~&Y], but unwittingly we are trying to do for some lawyer the House I shall make the point of no quorum. what David Lamar, of recent fame, was trying to do for an­ Mr. HENRY. Bow is that? other lawyer in New York-get him a job. [Laughter.] I l\Ir. l\IANN. Tellers will not change the result. It takes just want to drop this for the benefit of my colleague and for too long and some of us want to get siway. the benefit of this House: If there is a man, a Member of Con­ Mr. HE~"'RY. I do not think any gentleman would make the gress, who knows any more about the Money Trust now than point of no quorum. he did b€fore we paid Mr. Untermyer his $15,000, I want M:r. UANN. I say it is too late in the afternoon on Saturday him to hold up his hand and tell me what he has learned since afternoon. Some of us want to leave town. tb:en. We knew then what our national banking laws were. Mr. HENRY. Mr. Speaker, in \iew of the fact, while I We knew then all about the gambling on the stock exchange. believe that the House should lea>e this part of the resolution My colleague talks about the " invisible" government that con­ as it was, I withdraw my demand for tellers. trols and holds in its hand the destiny of this Republic. I The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Texas withdraws his deny that. I stand before one branch of the visible Govern­ demand for tellers. On this question the ayes are 86, the noes ment of this Republic, nnd there is not a man here who knows are 32, and the amendment of the gentleman from New York better than my colleague from Texas [Mr. HENRY] that there is is adopted. no "invisible" government in this Republic, unless, indeed, our Mr. Sl\IALL. Mr. Speaker, I offer the following amendment. constituents at home, of whom we are dreadfully afraid, are The SPEAKER. Tbe Clerk will report it. the "invisible" government. To leave the impression upon this The Clerk read as follows : country, to lea\e the impression among the ignorant and the Amend, page 3, line 12, by adding the following to the paragraph : uninitiated that there is some "invisible," satanic government "This committee shall conclude its investigations and submit a final here that is shaping legislation and controlling us is almost report on or before the 1st day of September, 1913." diabolical in its effect on the integrity of our institutions. Mr. SMALL. Mr. Speaker, this amendment simply requires Mr. HENRY. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman yield? the committee to conclude this investigation and submit its Mr. DIES. With pleasure. final report by tb:e 1st day of September, 1913. It seems to 1\Ir. HENRY. According to the argument of my colleague me that a limit should be placed upon the period within which from Texas, we do not want any investigation at all. this committee may continue its investigation and submit its 1\Ir. DIES. Oh, well, we have 433 Members of Congress, and final report, and I have selected September 1 as being a date you are going to give them a whitewash by a committee of seven. probably before the adjournment of the present session of Con­ It reminds me of what John Randolph, of Roanoke, said one gress. That will give the committee substantially two months, time when they had a horse race in Virginia. They could not July and August, within which to pursue its investigations get a stakeholder. Some fellow popped up and said : " I will an ample time within which to formulate their report afte~ hold yom' money." "Yes," said Randolph, "but who will hold the actual investigation has ~een concluded. That, it seems to you?" [Laughter.] If the American people will not believe in me, is a wise limitation upon the committee, both upon the the integrity and the honesty of 433 of their Repr~sentutives, score of expense and for the additional reason that an inquiry will they belieT"e in the verdict of seven or nine of their num­ of th.is kind, involving the integrity of the -membership of this ber that you get to try them? Talk about hiring lawyers to House and of the House as a whole, should be conducted as come here to develop the honesty or patriotism of Members of speedily and concluded as quickly as it may be with dignity Congress ! It will turn out like the Money Trust investigation, and with proper discharge of the duties de>olving upon such which was not worth a penny and which cost the Government committee. almost a quarter of a million dollars. You do not know anything Mr. HENRY. Will the gentleman yield? now about the Money Trust that was not known before. We knew Mr. SMALL. Certainly. then and we know now that the people are paying interest on Mr. HENRY. I did not catch the amendment as it was re­ the bonds and paying interest on the notes issued by the banks. ported, my attention being distracted at the time. Does the The President of the United States is making a patriotic gentleman propose to limit this committee to a report on the efl'oi-t to gi>e the country a stable, Government~controlled cur­ 1st day of September on everything? rency, and I am with him in the effort. Instead of running . Mr. SMALL. On everything. around here like scared rats in a barn talking about lobbies Mr. HENRY. I will say to the gentleman >ery candidly that that do not exist and lobbyists that do not exist, let us pass if he shall insist upon that, I will make the point of no quorum a currency bill and go home. We have already revised the before I will let that amendment go through. I give the gentle· tariff downwards, thank God, and I helped to do it, and I am man that notice now. This in>estigation is too large and too going to help the President and the Congress give the people important to put such a limit on it. currency legislation, and all this talk about hiring lawyers Mr. SMALL. Mr. Speaker, I am going to insist on my amend­ and ha.Ye them investigate Congress is bunk of the purest va­ ment. and it is fot· the House to decide. Unless it can be shown riety. Let me tell you something. The people believe we are that more time is required for the investigation and the de­ honest now-- liberations of this committee than practically 60 days-- 1\Ir. COOPER. l\Ir. Speaker, will the gentleman permit an Mr. BARNHART. Will the gentleman yield? interruption? , Mr. SMALL. Certainly. l\Ir. DIES. With unspeakable pleasure. l\Ir. BARNHART. It has been frequently stated this after­ 1\fr. COOPER. Thank you kindly. If I understand the noon that it is possible that the Senate, having posse"sion of gentleman's position here, the House of Representatives, being the important papers in this case, might hold them for a month inYestigated, ought to ask the questions. In other words, be­ or six weeks, during which there would be no hope of the ing investigated, it ought to interrogate witnesses. Is that it? House coming into possession of them. Suppose these papers Mr. DIES. If I thought we needed investigation, which I do might be delayed in the hands of the Senate committee for that not-- · · length of time, or for months for that matter? I hope the Mr. COOPER. We are going to pass the resolution. gentleman will change that amendment. Mr. DIES. Conscious of my own rectitude and firm in Mr. SMALL. JI.fr. Speaker, that is merely speculative. I th~ f~ith that you are as honest as I am, and that no lobby is have heard the same statement, but I can not belie>e, and I do go~g ~o . influence either you or me in passing legislation, I not believe, that a committee of the Senate would refuse to thmk it is the merest act of cowardice for this House to hire deliver to a committee of the House, after it shall have been lawyers and appoint committees to engage :iii an investigation constituted, all such record evidence as they may have affecting at this time, the only effect of which will be to spend a few the integrity of the membership of the House, and I can not thousand dollars and waste a lot of time. It there has been believe that the Senate committee would be guilty of such a wrongdoing by Members of Congress, let us punish, not hold discourtesy and thereby delay the House committee. hearing ; impeachment is your remedy, not a long-winded in­ The SPEAKER. The time o:f the gentleman from North vestigation. Carolina has expired. The SPEAKER. The time of the gentleman has expired. Mr. HEJNRY. Mr. Speaker, I deplore the fact that the gen­ The pro forrna amendment is withdrawn and the question is on tleman from has introduced that amendment. the amendment offered by the gentleman ·from New York. At first the gentleman is in favor of striking out the provision The question was taken, and the Speaker announced that the allowing this committee to employ counsel. Now, he comes ayes seemed to have it. along, after the striking out of the provision authorizing the Mr. llE~RY. Division, Mr. Speaker. committee to employ counsel, and wants to put a limit of less The House divided; and there were-ayes 86, noes 32. than four weeks on this committee to investigate and make a 2334 OONGRESSIOK AL RECORD-HOUSE. JULY 5,

report on this great question. What is there to hide? Why .Mr. MURDOCK. As a matter of fact can not the committee not let it ham publicity? What fear has the gentleman that hold all its meetings in secret? this committee can profitably put in three or four or sL'X: months Mr. COOPER. Oh, not at all. in order to get to the bottom of these nefarious charges? Mr. l\f.A.NN. 1\fr. Speaker, the word "executive" bas come to :Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I am going to make a point of no mean "secret," so that the gentleman's amendment means sim­ quorum· at a quarter to 4 o'clock. ply that all meetings of the committee, except secret meetings, l\fr. HEi~IlY. I will finish long before that. [Cries of shall be open to the public. "Vote!" "Vote !"] l\Ir. Spen.ker, it would not distress me if Mr. COOPER. I know, of course, that whenever the gentle­ the gentleman •lid make the point of no quorum, because this man from Illinois has an opportunity to make a comment of im·estigation does not and can not affect me one way or the that kind that would be his comment. But I have never known other. If you begin it on Monday I shall be satisfied. If you an executirn meeting of a committee to be anything but a meet­ do not begin it at all it will not worry me, except for the ing where you did not take the testimony of the witnesses. An integrity of the House. executive meeting, I have always understood, is where a com­ l\Ir. MANN. Let us vote. . mittee decides what it will do, making up its mind upon facts Mr. HENRY. But I wanted to can to the attention of the presented to it. But if that interpretation is now put upon it­ membership of the House that after striking out the provision and it bas been put into the record by the gentleman from Illi­ for counsel there is a sentiment and an effort to put a limit nois-it is an interpretation that I have not heard before upon on the time this committee is to sit and make an investigation. other committees, because in the Committee on Foreign Affairs [Cries of "Vote!" "Vote!"] when men come we say, "We are about to have an executive The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend­ meeting," and e-rerybody goes out except the members of the rnent offered by the gentleman from North Carolina [l\Ir. committee. SMALL]. l\fr. MURDOCK. Why not strike that word out? The question wns taken, and the amendment was rejected. Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I move to strike out the word l\Ir. COOPER Mr. Speaker, I move to amend, line 6, page 3, "executive" and say "all meetings for the hearing of wit­ by striking out the words "or any subcommittee thereof." nesses or the taking of testimony by any committee or sub­ The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment. committee shall be open to the public." The Clerk read as follows : The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the amendment of Page 3, line 6, strike out the words "or any suhcommlttee thereof." the gentleman from Wisconsin [1\lr. CooPER] as modified. Mr. MA1\1N. Mr. Speaker, in order that the gentleman may, The SPEAKER. The question is on agreeing to the amend- have time in which to correct the language of his amendment, ment. I make the point of order that there is no quorum present. l\1r. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, one moment. I mo-re that l\Ir. McDERMOTT. Will not the gentleman wait a second 1 amendment because, in my judgment, seven men is a number I want to rise to a question of personal privilege. sufficiently small to consider a thing of this vast importance. The SPEAKER The gentleman from Illinois [l\fr. M ANN] l\Ir. GARRETT of Tennessee. Will the gentleman permit me makes the point of order that there is no quorum present. to interrupt him just to suggest one thing? · l\Ir. GRA.HAM of Illinois. I hope the gentleman will with­ .Mr. COOPER. Yes. hold his point for a little while. Mr. GARRETT of Tennessee. I have an idea that the only Mr. l\IAJ\'N. I make the point of order that there is no time there would be a subcommittee appointed would be, based quorum present. on experience I have had with a committee similar to this, in The SPEAKER. The Chair will count. [After counting.] cases where perchance there might be a sick witness or some­ One hundred and twenty-seven Members are present-not a. thing of that sort away from where the committee was sitting, quorum. and where it would be economy to send two members of the ADJOUBN"MENT. committee to take the testimony. :Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I think that consideration does Mr. CARLIN. Mr. Speaker, I mo-re that the House do now not weigh against. the importance of having all the seven men adjourn. who are on this committee see every witness w:ho testifies. The motion was agreed to. One of our constitutional provisions is that a man being tried Accordingly (at 3 o'clock and 45 minutes p. m.) the House for an offense shall be entitled to be confronted by the wit­ adjourned, under the order previously made, until Wednesday, nesses against him. I want the judges of this case, this com­ July 9, 1913, at 12 o'clock noon. mittee, to see every man and every woman, and see what they Jook like, notice their manner, and determine whether they are EXECUTIVE COMMUXICATIO. YS. telling the truth or not. Under clause 2 of Rule xxrv, executi\e cornmnnications were I do not want a committee of seven to appoint a subcommittee taken from the Speakers t able and referr cl as foJ1o,ys : of two to go out and take the testimony of a witness and then 1. A letter from the Secretary of the Treasury, recommending have the other five know nothing whatever of what was said in the correction of the item of the sundry cfril act a ppro1 ed June the deposition. That never amounts to anything, as any lawyer 23, 1913, in regard to post-office lmilding at Canton, Ill. (II. Doc. knows, in the trial of an important lawsuit. No. 133) ; to the Committee on Appropriations null ordered to That ought to be stricken out, and there ought also to be an be printed. amendment to the effect that every meeting of the committee 2. A le,tter from the Acting Secretary of War, transmitting, should be open to the public. [Cries of "Vote I" "Vote!"] with a letter from the Chief of Engineers, report of examination The SPEA.KER. The question is on agreeing to the amend- and survey of Hillsboro. River, Fla. (H. Doc. No. 132) ; to the ment. . Committee on Rivers and Harbors and ordered to be printed The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. with illustrations. · Mr. COOPER. Mr. Speaker, I offer another amendment. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Wisconsin [Mr. CooPER] offers another amendment, which the Clerk will report. PUBLIC BILLS. RESOLUTIONS, AND ME1'.IORIA.LS. The Clerk read as follows: Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, bills, resolutions, and memorials Amend, by inserting after the word " Congress," in line 9, page 3, the were introduced and severally referred as foJ\ o,vs: following: "AH meetings of said committee or of any subcommittee, ex­ By Mr. KAHN : A bill ( H. R. 663-!) to i1r0Yi

By Mr. MOON: A bill (H. R. 6639) authorizing juries to fix Also, a bill (H. R. 6664) granting a pension to Joseph Clyde punishment of defendants convicted in United States courts Shadden; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. in certain cases; to the Committee on the Judiciary. Also, a bill (H. R. 6665) granting a pension to Andrew Also, a bill (H. R. 6640) to provide for the erection of a Solomon, alias Andrew Moore; to the Committee on Invalid public building at Sparta, Tenn.; to the Committee on Public Pensions. Buildings und Grounds. Also, a bill ( H. R. 6666) granting a pension to Mary Emma Also, a bill (H. R. 6641) to determine powers of United .A.xmacher; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. States judges as to instructions to juries; to the Committee on Also, a bill (H. R. 6667) granting a pension to Harriet E. the Judiciary. · Aiken; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, a bill (H. n. 6642) to appropriate $20,000 for the ex­ Also, a bill (H. R. 6668) granting a pension to Andrew J. tension and completion of Hooker Road from St. Elmo up Hollaway; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. , in Hamilton County, Tenn., to United States Also, a bill (H. R. 6669) granting a pension to Margaret J. r eser rntion, Point Park, and battlefield on Lookout Mountain, Ferguson; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. and acceptance by cession of said roads by United States; to Also, a bill (H. R. 6670) granting a pension to Sarah J. the Committee of Appropriations. Watson or Hunter; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. .Also, a bill (H. R. 6643) to provide for the erection of a Also, a bill (H. R. 6671) granting a pension to John B. public building at Mdlinnville, Tenn. ; to the Committee on Evans; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Public Buildings and Grounds. · Also, a bill (H. n. 6672) granting a pension to l\Iary J. Pear­ Also, a bill (H. R. 6644) to provide for the erection of a public son; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. building at l\fadisonville, Tenn.; to the Committee on Public Also, a bill (H. R. 6673) granting a pension to Ella Neff; to Buildings and Grounds. the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. G645) recognizing the military service of Also, a bill (H. R. 6674) granting an increase of pension to and giving pensionable status under allpensionlawsoftheUnited Rebecca .A.. ·cole; to the Committee on Pensions. States to persons serving under United States officers as home Also, a bill (H. R. 6675) granting an increase of pension to gu::tnls, militia, or other provisional troops during the Civil Benedict Ellis; to the Committee on Pensions. War; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. . Also, a bill (H. R. 6676) granting an increase of pension to By Mr. ALLEN: .A. bill (H. R. 6646) to regulate the payment Lucinda Hughes; to the Committee on Pensions. of ea laries of post-office clerks and letter carriers in the City Also, a bill (H. R. 6677) granting an increase of pension to D li>ery Service; to the Committee on the Post Office and William J. Walsh; to the Committee on In>alid Pensions. Post Roads. · Also, a bill (H. R. 6678) granting an increase of pension to B:v :;.\Ir. BURGESS: Joint resolution (H. J. Res. 104) request­ Alexander Sutherland; to the Committee on Invalid P en sions. ing 'the P resident to consider the expediency of effecting a treaty .Also, a bill (H. R. 6679) granting an increase of pension to witll European powers providing for the neutralization of the James Shaw; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Philippine I slands and to protect :m independent government Also, a bill (H. R. 6680) granting an increase of pension to lli::·re when e ·tablished; to the Committee on Insular Affairs. James H. Pack; to the Committee on Invalid P ensions. Br Mr. LEVY: Joint resolution (H. J. Res. 105) directing the Also, a bill ( H. R. 6681) granting an increase of pension to Interstate Commerce Commission to grant an increase in freight Robert B. Weathers; to the Committee on Invalid P ensions. rntes ; to the Committee on Rules. Also, a bill (H. R. 6682) granting an increase of pension to Ry Ur. J. l\L O. S~HTH: l\femorial of the Legislature o.f William J. Walsh; to the Committee on Invalid P ensions. MiC'higan, pr aying Congress to call a convention to propose an Also, a bill (H. R. 6683) granting au increase of pension to nrnendrucnt to the Constitution of the United States prohibiting Milton J. Beebe; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. i;olygnmy ; to the Committee on the Judiciary. Also, a bill (H. R. 6684) granting an increase of pension to Melvin P. Long; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 6685) for the relief of L. W. Hildebrand, PRIV.ATE BILLS .A.ND RESOLUTIONS. adminish·ator of the estate of John W. Hildebrand, deceased; nder clause 1 of Rule XXII, private bills and resolutions to the Committee on Claims. \Yere introduced and severally referred as follows: Also, a bill (H. R. 6686) for the relief of J esse A. Wallace; By .Jfr. CLARK of lllissouri: A bill (H. R. 6647) for the relief to the Committee on War Claims. of James .A.. Griffith and Hannibal I. Griffith; to the Committee Also, a bill (H. R. 6687) for the relief of Jesse Walling; to on War Claims. the Committee on War Claims. • Ily Mr. COX: .A. bill (H. R. 6648) granting a pension to Mil­ . Also, a bill (H. R. 6688) for the relief of Mrs. David Gil­ dred J. Cutsinger; to tlle Committee on Invalid Pensions. lespie; to the Committee· on War Claims. Also, ·a bill (H. R. 6649) granting a pension to Fred Lamke; Also, a bill (H. R. 6689) for the. relief of J ames B. Hoge; to the Committee on Pensions. to the Committee on War Claims. .Also, a bill (H. R. 6650) granting an increase of pension to Also, a bill (H. R. 6690) for the r elief of the esta te of Wash­ Ilobert R aney; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. ington Pryor, deceased; to the Committee on War Claims. By l\Ir. DONOVAN: A bill (H. R. 6651) granting an increase Also, a bill (H. R 6691) for the relief of Mrs. E. L. Eblen; of pension to Jane 0. Parrott; to the Committee on Invalid to the Committee on War Claims. P ensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 6692) for the relief of Edwa rd D. P ickett ; By l\Ir. DALE: A bill (H. R. 6652) to remove the charge of to the Committee on War Claims. desertion from the military record of Luke O'Brien; to the Com­ Also, a bill (H. R. 6693) for the relief of D. J. R ogers; to mittee on Military Affairs. the Committee on War Claims. By Mr. FilEKCH: .A. bill (H. R. 6653) for the relief of Mary Also, a bill (H. R. 6694) for the re.lief of William Iloberts; to Van Deventer; to the Committee on Claims. the Committee on War Claims. By .!\Ir. IGOE: A bill (H. Il. 6654) for the relief of William Also, a bill ( H. n. 6695) for the relief of John M. H eard ; to S. Eames and Thomas C. Young; to the Committee on Claims. the Committee on War Claims. By .!\Ir. MAHER: .A. bill (H. R. 6655) granting an increase of Also, a bill (H. R . 6696) for the relief of trustees of the pension to Robert Kiers; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Boiling Fork Baptist Church, of Cowan, Tenn. ; to the Com­ ~l s o, a bill ( H. R. 6656) granting an increase of pension to mittee on War Claims. Edward Koenig; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 6G97) for the relief of John Coppinger; to By .!\Ir. MONDELL: .A. bill (H. R. 6657) for the relief of the Committee on War Claims. Thomas J. Haynes; to the Committee on Claims. Also, a bill (H. R. 6698) for the relief of the estate of P. W. By l\Ir. MOON: A bill (H. R. 6658) granting a pension to Key; to the Committee on War Claims. J. L. McDowell, alias Leander Dickey; to the Committee on Also, a bill (H. R. 6699) for the relief of Sarah J. Standefer; ;pensions. · . to the Committee on War Claims. Also, a bill (H. R. 6659) granting a pension. to Hayes Brum- Also, a bill (H. R. 6700) for the relief of G. n. West; to the mitt; to the Committee on Pensions. · Committee on War Claims. . Also, a bill (H. R. 6660) granting a pension to Sehorn J. Also, a bill (H. R. 6701) for the relief of the widow of the Mullins; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. late Capt. Daniel C. Trewhitt; to the Committee on War Claims. · Also, a bill (H. R. 6661) granting a pension to Mary E. Also, a bill (H. R. 6702) for the relief of William M. White; Pearce; to the Committee on InY::tlid Pensions. to the Committee on Military Affairs. Also, a bill (H. n. GG62) granting a pension to Sarah E. Also, a bill (H. R. 6703) for the relief of Samuel McJunkiu i Mills ; to tlle Committee on InYnlid Pensions. to the Committee on Military Affairs. - Also, a bill (H. It. 6663) granting a pension to Dautry C. Also, a bill (H. n. 6704) for the relief of James Moore; to Baine ; to the Committee on Jnynlid Pensions. the Committee on Military Affairs. L--147 1 2336 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- ROUSE. JULY fl;, I Also, a bill (H. R. 6705 for the relief of R. H. Sively; to the By Mr. J .. M. C. SMITH: A hill (H. R.. 6742} for the relie~ Committee on Military Affairs. of John K. Steedman; to the Committee