LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4321

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS

Thursday, 13 December 2018

The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG

THE HONOURABLE LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE MRS LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P.

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THE HONOURABLE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO

THE HONOURABLE PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG

THE HONOURABLE MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI

THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG

DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN

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THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN

DR THE HONOURABLE , B.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, S.B.S., J.P.

IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN

THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG

THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN

THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK

THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE KWAN-YIU, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING

THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING

THE HONOURABLE HO-DING

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI

THE HONOURABLE CHONG-SHING, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN

DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN

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THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG

THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P.

DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI

THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU

THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO

THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI

THE HONOURABLE AU NOK-HIN

THE HONOURABLE VINCENT CHENG WING-SHUN, M.H.

THE HONOURABLE WAI-CHUEN, B.B.S.

THE HONOURABLE CHAN HOI-YAN

MEMBERS ABSENT:

PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG

THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN

THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN

THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H.

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PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

DR THE HONOURABLE LAW CHI-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE

DR CHUI TAK-YI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH

CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:

MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

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MEMBERS' MOTIONS

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Good morning Members. Council will now resume. Debate on motion with no legislative effect.

The motion debate on "Requesting the Government to set up crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals".

Members who wish to speak will please press the "Request to speak" button.

I call upon Dr Pierre CHAN to speak and move the motion.

REQUESTING THE GOVERNMENT TO SET UP CRISIS SUPPORT CENTRES FOR SEXUAL VIOLENCE VICTIMS AND ABUSED CHILDREN IN PUBLIC HOSPITALS

DR PIERRE CHAN (in Cantonese): Good morning, Deputy President, I move that the motion, as printed on the Agenda, be passed. In view of the rising trend in the number of cases of sexual violence and child abuse in Hong Kong in recent years and apart from the insufficient support given by the Government over the years, I propose today's motion on "Requesting the Government to set up crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals". My purpose is to arouse the concern of the public in society and to strengthen the support to these victims. The following speech is divided into five parts.

First, let me explain why I urge the Government to set up crisis support centres in public hospitals in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon respectively to provide 24-hour one-stop services. The Association Concerning Sexual Violence Against Women―RainLily, announced on 30 May this year that during the 2000-2017 period, 3 501 assistance cases in total were received. They include rape, indecent assault and sexual harassment cases. The number of indecent assault cases increased by 116% in 2017. The situation is worth our concern when Chinese and overseas artists and local female track athletes suffered sexual abuse came out to campaign for the "#MeToo" movement and stood up to bring to light their unfortunate past experiences.

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At present, only the Prince of Wales Hospital in the New Territories East Cluster has designated a room as a crisis support centre to provide sexual violence victims with 24-hour one-stop services, but such services are not provided by the hospital. In fact, the centre is run and coordinated by a non-profit making organization. The organization raises all the funds by itself. Little has been done by the Government as far as the services provided to sexual violence victims at the Accident and Emergency Department ("AED") of other public hospitals are concerned. As a sexual violence victim will only be considered one of the service targets of AED, the victim has to go through the triage and evaluation system and wait for treatment at the hospital's lobby as other patients. The doctor will refer the case to the Police posted at AED for inquiry only if the victim agrees to report the case. The victim will then be transferred to another location. There is no designated room for video recording the process. Some victims recalled that as soon as the curtain was brought down or once they were brought to a corner of AED, the inquiry and the taking of statements began. After the Police had taken the statements, the case was handed over to the relevant police district and forensic department for collection of evidence. That involves a third venue where the doctor starts to diagnose the victim to see if he or she had to be hospitalized for treatment. During the entire process, the victim has to keep on giving an account of the sexual abuse incident. It not only aggravates the trauma but also affects the decision to report the incident.

A Survey on Hong Kong Women's Experience of Sexual Violence 2013 published by the Hong Kong Women's Coalition on Equal Opportunities shows that every one in seven women in Hong Kong has been victimized by sexual violence, and one sexual violence case occurs in every 7.4 hours. Nevertheless, among the 49% respondents who claimed that they were subjected to sexual violence, only less than 3% of them had reported their cases to the Police. But why?

A few days ago, a victim with the pseudonym "Melody" told the media that she was reporting her case to the Police on the next day after she was sexually abused. She was accompanied by a friend to report the case and she had not even thought that she had to clear a series of hurdles. She had to repeat her statements five times, starting from the report room to the criminal investigation unit. She had to repeat numerous times about her painful ordeal of being raped. From such cases we may understand why the crime reporting rate of these cases 4328 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 is so low. The complicated reporting process has actually aggravated the trauma of the victims.

At present, 24-hours one-stop crisis support centres for sexual violence victims have been set up in the United Kingdom, Australia, Malaysia, Taiwan, Thailand and Sri Lanka. It is reported that after the crisis centre opened in Malaysia, the reporting rate for sexual assault cases has increased.

For that reason, I urge the Government to allocate additional resources to the . According to the guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by the World Health Organization, a crisis support centre should be set up in public hospitals respectively in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon to provide sexual violence victims and abused children with 24-hour one-stop services. The victims should be allowed to receive treatment and follow-up services and undergo necessary procedures, including medical treatment, forensic examinations, reporting to the Police, statement taking (with the provision of facilities for the Police to take statements from victims by way of video-recorded interview), receiving support and counselling from social workers in a designated and suitable place with high privacy protection, with a view to alleviating the fear and psychological pressure of the victims and enhancing their propensity to report their cases to the Police.

Secondly, if you ask me, I am rather enraged by the fact that the Government has not properly maintained the figures on victims. In fact, since I became a Member of the Legislative Council, I frequently demand the Government for statistics on various matters with a view to monitoring its governance. But too often I cannot get an answer. I asked the Secretary for Security an oral question on 27 June, it turns out that the Government has not maintained figures on victims of rape cases and indecent assault cases who received treatment or underwent examinations at AED of public hospitals and has not maintained figures on victims of rape cases who gave witness statements to the Police and underwent forensic examinations in public hospitals in the same period. I was shocked to hear what the Secretary for Security said that day. Can you imagine how the Government can formulate effective strategies to support these victims if it has not maintained such basic figures? I urge the Government to promptly improve the interdepartmental notification mechanism and maintain the figures of victims properly. As to this issue, even though officials from the Security Bureau have not attended today's meeting, the Hospital Authority should be duty-bound to take care of such matters.

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Thirdly, I wish to speak on the issue about providing abused children with assistance and follow-up actions. According to the figures of the Social Welfare Department ("SWD"), a total of 2 740 reported child abuse cases were received between 2015 and 2017. Five hundred and fifty-four reported cases were received between January and June this year. The unfortunate tribulations of these vulnerable youngsters are certainly well worth our concern. In particular, over 60% abusers were the parents of the abused children, or in a broader sense, the abusers were people close to the victims, such as relatives, grandparents, step parents or their carers. According to the figures, almost 90% of the abusers were people close to the abused children. How can we send the victims back home as soon as we have received such cases? There is a 90% chance that the children will be abused again by people close to them once they are sent home. As a matter of fact, abused children have no place to go. They need a one-stop crisis centre to provide them with timely support and to alleviate the fear they have been suffering as soon as they are hospitalized for medical treatment or follow-up actions.

Why are abused children sent to hospitals in the first place? At present, when school teachers or social workers have identified a child abuse case, they will send the child to AED of any hospital, and then AED may refer the case to the paediatric department. I have explained earlier that as there is no place to help the child to settle down, the only option is to send him to AED. At present, the Government's inter-departmental policy on coordinating the work to handle abused children has not been fully integrated. The work is still highly compartmentalized. SWD passes the bucket to doctors, frontline social workers, the Police, teachers and psychologists. It fails to play the role properly as a coordinator and will only sit there and wait for the issues to come to its door. Deputy President, I always have these grievances whenever I mention this issue. Many victims of suspected child abuse cases sent to the pediatrics wards cannot be discharged from the hospitals because they have to wait for the care arrangement to be made by social workers. Some may stay in the hospitals for as long as two weeks, several months, or even more than one year in some cases as they have to wait for a place in a children's shelter. Under the pretence of the so-called inter-departmental cooperation, different government departments are actually minding their own businesses only. They do not share the information with any other department, making the policy poorly interfaced. It only reflects the fact that SWD fails to perform its organization and coordination duty properly.

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"In politics, one day is too long; and a day of hospital admission is also too much". Child abuse victims are stranded in hospital wards. But first of all, they suffer no illness at all. The only people suffering from illnesses are the abusers close to them, but the children are forced to stay in the hospitals and to wait for the Government's arrangement. On the one hand, the victims occupy the hospital beds, and the fact that their staying in the wards will make them more susceptible to influenza, pneumonia, gastrointestinal diseases on the other. Therefore, a one-stop crisis support centre can minimize their risk of getting infected, and it will also help to ease the pressure on the manpower of health care workers as well as hospital beds. At the same time, I hope the authorities will simplify the procedure for sending child abuse victims to and from the appropriate children's shelter and build more shelters for the victims as extra efforts to support these victims.

Moreover, I urge the Government to re-examine the existing guidelines and safety net policy to provide appropriate support to helpless children. Child abuse victims do not simply mean an abuse case or a figure; a lot of stories of blood and tears are hidden behind them. They badly need paediatric doctors and frontline social workers to spend more time to heal them, to guide them, and to have a deeper understanding of the core problem of their families. I suggest that the Government should increase the manpower of paediatric doctors, social workers and children's carers and provide appropriate support to these helpless children.

Fourthly, it is about the importance of providing frontline personnel with professional and specialized training to enhance their sensitivity and skills in handling sexual violence and child abuse cases. According to SWD's figures, more than 30% of all children were sexually assaulted over the past five years. According to the Security Bureau's figures, the number of male victims of sex assault has increase from 4.5% in 2013 to 8% in 2017. The types of sexual assault cases have become more complicated than before. They involve victims of different genders, sexual orientations, ages, and they even involve transgender persons and mentally handicapped people. They will also find it embarrassing to tell other people their ordeals because of the social custom, family background, religious and cultures reasons. For this reason, the Government should provide frontline personnel, including doctors, police officers, teachers and social workers, with professional and specialized training to enhance their sensitivity and skills in handling cases of sexual violence and child abuse. The training should cover the psychologies of victims, interrogation skills, risk assessment and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4331 conflict management, in order to prevent victims from receiving unfair and untrusted treatment. Victims should also be encouraged to come forward and report the wrongdoings of the abusers.

Fifthly, Hong Kong is a multi-dimensional society. It is important for us to provide ethnic minority victims with appropriate support in order to prevent any misunderstanding in what they want to say. Very often, the language barrier will prevent ethnic minority victims from recounting the details of their cases as well as understanding the legal procedure, while each word they speak has significant impact on the case reporting and prosecution process. For this reason, people who provide the interpretation and translation services are just like the mouths and ears of the victims. They bear a huge responsibility. Therefore, the Government should ensure that interpreters render precise interpretation and translation to ethnic minorities victims in a professional and impartial manner, so as to protect the interest of the victims in the course of statement taking and to ensure the fairness and impartiality of Hong Kong's judicial system.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I so submit.

Dr Pierre CHAN moved the following motion: (Translation)

"That given the rising trend in the number of cases of sexual violence and child abuse in Hong Kong in recent years, this Council urges the Government to allocate additional resources to the Hospital Authority for, in accordance with the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by the World Health Organization, setting up a crisis support centre in public hospitals respectively in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon to provide sexual violence victims and abused children ('victims') with 24-hour one-stop services; details of recommendations are as follows:

(1) designating a suitable place with high privacy protection for setting up a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre in three public hospitals, thereby allowing victims to receive treatment and follow-up services and undergo necessary procedures, including medical treatment, forensic examinations, reporting to the Police, statement taking (with the provision of facilities for the Police to take statements from victims by way of video-recorded interview), receiving support and counselling from social workers, in the same place; 4332 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

(2) properly maintaining overall statistics on victims receiving diagnosis and treatment or undergoing examinations, giving statements to the Police and undergoing forensic examinations in public hospitals;

(3) instructing the Social Welfare Department to review the existing procedural guide for regulating the handling of child abuse cases while clarifying its coordination role to foster cooperation with the Police, health care personnel and other departments, in order to provide abused children with timely assistance and follow-up;

(4) providing frontline personnel (including police officers and social workers) with professional and specialized training to enhance their sensitivity and skills in handling cases of sexual violence and child abuse involving different genders, backgrounds, cultures and sexual orientations; and

(5) formulating uniform standards of interpretation and translation services for languages of various ethnic minorities and providing training for interpreters to ensure that they render interpretation and translation services to ethnic minorities victims in a professional and impartial manner."

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Dr Pierre CHAN be passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Three Members will move amendments to this motion. This Council will conduct a joint debate on the motion and the amendments.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I will call upon Members who will move the amendments to speak in the following order: Ms Alice MAK, Mr SHIU Ka-chun and Dr Fernando CHEUNG, but they may not move their amendments at this stage.

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MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, since the global movement of "#MeToo" that went viral last year, many people have come forward bravely to disclose that they are the victim of sexual harassment, sexual assault or even sexual violence. Despite being an international city, Hong Kong is, in fact, not that advanced in handling cases of sexual assault, sexual violence and domestic violence due to the influence of our traditional culture. From suffering the actual harassment to appearing in the court, these victims are hurt time and again, not just bodily, but also mentally by having to recount their experience repeatedly, and their privacy are often jeopardized.

If the victims belong to the disadvantaged groups, such as children, the grass roots and ethnic minorities, they will face even bigger difficulties, and their cases are more difficult to handle as well. Hence, the Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions ("FTU") supports this motion and the amendments to request the setting up of crisis support centres in public hospitals for victims of sexual violence and abused children. We hope that the Government can step up its support on combating sexual violence and domestic violence because these incidents would hurt the victims and affect their whole life. I hope the Government can handle this problem from an empathetic point of view.

According to the information of the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") and the Census and Statistics Department, there are over 3 000 new cases of spouse battering every year, about 1 000 new cases of child abuse and almost 1 000 new cases of sexual violence; and there has been a rising trend over recent years in the reported cases of sexual violence. In other words, at least more than 10 cases take place every day in Hong Kong. In the face of such hidden, and hard-to-speak-out harm done on the victims, which is often inflicted by people intimate to them, we must find out how to heal the pain of the victims and help them report their case to law enforcement officers. Recounting their experience is painful both physically and mentally. Every word they utter is filled with tears and agony.

I know that over the past decade or so, SWD, the Police and the Hospital Authority ("HA") have constantly reviewed the support and guidelines on handling child abuse, domestic violence and sexual violence cases. But frontline organizations and their workers still find the arrangement unsatisfactory. Many victims end up feeling very much bothered, ashamed and therefore refuse to recount their unhappy experience, and eventually give up reporting their case to the Police. This, in a way, has encouraged the abusers and lengthened the 4334 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 agony of the victims. I thus think that better coordination and support, such as the provision of a one-stop joint service, would definitely do good to the disadvantaged victims.

Deputy President, I propose in my amendment the establishment of a special investigation team in the Police to exclusively handle cases of sexual violence and child abuse. I believe I am not the first one to make this proposal, but the authorities have ignored it. According to frontline social workers, a victim of rape often has to recount her unhappy experience to many people after arriving at the hospital, including the uniformed police officer, the officers from the Criminal Investigation Department, the Regional Crime Unit and the forensic investigation team. She may need to recount her experience as many as five to seven times. In addition, she may need to be cross-examined at court and attend court trials for more than once in the judicial process. It is obvious that these procedures would inflict further harm on the victim psychologically.

Hence, I propose in my amendment that the Police should have a dedicated department and team to handle these cases. This is conducive to both the victims and Police investigation. If one-stop crisis support centres can be set up in the future, these cases can be directly assigned to this professional team for handling, thus saving the need for the victims to repeat their unhappy encounter for so many times and go to the police station to give evidence. Besides, officers with relevant experience or have received relevant training can be assigned to handle these cases.

Deputy President, according to information from the Hong Kong Police Force, the Family Conflict and Sexual Violence Policy Unit in the Police Force is, as its name suggests, responsible only for policy formulation, liaising with other departments and non-governmental organizations and providing support to relevant trainings. The Unit does not belong to the teams involved in investigating these cases. As a matter of fact, the Police Force have established dedicated teams to handle and investigate special cases, such as those involving commercial crimes, Internet crimes and missing persons, or the latest telephone frauds which have become a trend. Therefore, it is not something new or difficult to establish a dedicated team on child abuse or sexual violence. I hope the authorities can consider this proposal because these cases happen every day.

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Why must the support centres provide one-stop services and why must these cases be handled by the Police? Just imagine if the victim goes to the Police to report her case, she would prefer a place she finds reliable and safe to recount all the details of her encounter without feeling embarrassed. If she has to repeatedly describe her encounter and that she feels very worried each time because the environment … I will come to that later … is not desirable, such as being separated only by a flimsy curtain, how can she have a peaceful mind to tell the whole encounter to the Police? Some frontline social workers have reflected to me that many victims gave up midway while reporting to the Police or pursuing justice because they did not want to describe their encounter again. Such situations definitely encourage the abusers. Do we genuinely want to see these brutal abusers get away with their crime and continue to oppress vulnerable people and women?

Deputy President, another major proposal that I propose in my amendment is interpretation services. I have raised this problem for a number of times in this Council. The existing interpretation services, especially those in public hospitals, are useless. This has created much trouble to the ethnic minorities. If the victims of domestic violence or sexual violence are to be handled by the interpreters working in public hospitals, it will definitely be disastrous.

To begin with, there are about 260 000 ethnic minorities in Hong Kong, accounting for about 3.6% of our total population. But the medical interpretation services in Hong Kong are supported by a team of about 60 interpreters and most of them work on a part-time basis. The wastage rate is high and the service is obviously inadequate. Moreover, we can find in the HA website that the simultaneous interpretation services provided in public hospitals across the territory are not on a 24-hour basis. Interpretation services for urgent medical cases at midnight will have to be conducted through telephone. This will definitely cause much trouble to the abused children or sexual violence victims who need detailed physical examination or evidence-taking, thus making them feel even more helpless.

A deeper problem is that people in the ethnic minorities community often know each other. The interpreters only work on a part-time basis, not full-time, and they would go to the hospitals only if there is a service request. The interpreter responsible for taking evidence may not know the victim personally, but he or she may know the victim's relatives or friends. If we understand the cultural background of the ethnic minorities, we know that they prefer a full-time 4336 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 professional interpreter employed by HA to take evidence for these victims. This is very important because the privacy of the victims should be protected from disclosure; and more importantly, this can give them peace in mind when they tell people what has happened.

In many cases, ethnic minorities women who have been sexually abused or have a health issue dare not tell the truth when they see a part-time interpreter because they do not know if the interpreter knows their family members personally. They end up giving up pursuing further.

Hence, FTU has repeatedly requested the authorities to address the problem with interpretation in medical services. This includes improving the procedure and guidelines for the provision of interpretation services in public hospitals, requesting public hospitals to provide resident medical interpreters and formulating a clear system for professional training to ensure that these interpreters have the ability to protect the privacy of the victims in a professional manner. Otherwise, ethnic minorities victims of sexual abuse or violence will still lack support, and this may even aggravate the relevant problems in the ethnic minorities community.

Besides, I wish to specifically point out that HA does not maintain any data on ethnic minorities using its services. In other words, HA has no idea about the number of ethnic minorities people who have used its services. Without this statistical information, it is impossible to prove that the existing interpretation service in HA is adequate or not. If such information is available, it can prove that we need a resident medical interpreter at each hospital to ensure that ethnic minorities who need such interpretation services can immediately be arranged with a trustworthy interpreter to help them.

Deputy President, the original motion proposes to designate a suitable place with high privacy protection for setting up a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre in public hospitals. At present, the Government does not have similar services. Only a non-governmental organization has set up a crisis centre in individual hospitals to specifically handle abuse and sexual violence cases. In reply to a Member's question earlier, the Government says that any person who needs such one-stop services can go to the crisis intervention and support centre operated by that organization, and that in handling these cases, the hospitals have already provided a one-stop service for these victims.

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However, according to some frontline organizations, the written guidelines and policy appear to be very comprehensive, but there is no venue specifically designated for the victims in the hospital and very often there are no video recording facilities for evidence taking. As I just said, there is only a flimsy curtain. How can such environment protect the victims of abuse or sexual assault from further harm? How can they give evidence in a safe and reliable environment? I hope the Government can consider our proposals.

With these remarks, Deputy President, I support the motion and all the amendments.

DR FERNANDO CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I thank Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion, as the services provided by crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children are badly needed. Of course, I also support Ms Alice MAK's amendment. Mr SHIU Ka-chun has originally introduced an amendment, but he needs to appear before the Court today and is thus unable to attend this meeting. His amendment also has my support.

Deputy President, I feel sad today. Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong, now sitting in this Chamber, is actually very clear about this situation. More than a decade ago, we already suggested implementing the proposal, and RainLily also pointed out the importance of providing one-stop services. The proposal was not abandoned back then and as I know, Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong also helped in the implementation. It was 2005 when other Members and I were promoting this mode of providing one-stop services in the Council. This mode, having been existent for many years, has been put into practice by foreign countries for a very long period of time with guidelines issued by the World Health Organization. As just highlighted by Dr Pierre CHAN, this mode is being adopted by many other countries and even some developing countries.

The concept concerned is very simple. We want the victims to avoid secondary victimization and bustling around for assistance. Given the severe trauma that they have suffered physically and psychologically, there are no grounds for requiring them to bustle around to seek assistance. There is no reason that we do not understand such a simple principle. Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong understands it and so are the service providers. As we pointed out back then, whenever there is a crisis, the victim will usually go to the hospital, 4338 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 and thus this crisis support centre should be set up in a hospital instead of the Accident and Emergency Department ("AED"), because an AED is just like a battlefield which is very noisy and has no privacy, and is thus unable to provide a safe and comfortable environment where victims are willing to go and feel protected and safe. Therefore, a crisis support centre has to be set up in a hospital instead of AED. It must be part of a hospital for the convenience of medical doctors and forensic pathologists to conduct immediate diagnostic examination; for easy access to special equipment if needed, but which is not necessary in general; for easy access to hospital facilities which can serve as backup facilities; for the convenience of police officers to take statements; and also for the convenience of health care personnel to provide social hygiene services like prevention of sexually transmitted diseases and emergency contraception.

In fact, this is only a very simple principle. When Members put forward the proposal of setting up a crisis support centre, Dr LAW Chi-kwong also understood the rationale. But did the Government not understand? Rather than not understanding the rationale, the Government was simply not willing to back down. Because the organization RainLily, in addition to providing services to women suffered from sexual violence, also raised some suggestions and asked for policy change, and this made the Government a bit uneasy. As a result, what has the Government done? It finally introduced the so-called one-stop services which were provided through open tender. For many years, the services have been under the charge of the CEASE Crisis Centre of Tung Wah Group of Hospitals, but they have become something that is neither fish nor fowl. What are the so-called one-stop services being provided? A staff member will accompany the victim to run the errands, including bringing her to the police station for statement taking and to meet the forensic pathologist, and bringing her to the Department of Health if necessary. The one-stop services are the arrangements for accompanying the victims to run the errands. Deputy President, have you heard of anything so ridiculous? When Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong, who is sitting in the Secretary's seat today, gives a response in due course, he may say that there are already one-stop services available at present. But I hope that he will not say such things, as he is very clear about the whole picture. Back then, he assisted in promoting this mode and also supported the Association Concerning Sexual Violence Against Women.

Let us think about the story about Mencius' mother moving home three times for her son. Dr LUK Che-chung, the Chief Executive of Kwong Wah Hospital back then, was sympathetic to sexual violence victims and thought that LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4339 the mode concerned was good. He was willing to set aside an area in the Kwong Wah Hospital for such a purpose. Frankly speaking, there is a lot of space inside a hospital, but not a few areas are locked and unused by anyone, as we do not have enough resources to make good use of them. This was the situation at that time and is also the situation at present. Hence, Dr LUK Che-chung provided an area for RainLily which renovated the place through fund-raising for this mode of operation. Back then, Prof Fanny CHEUNG also assisted this organization in conducting a study and the result clearly showed that this mode was very effective.

Afterwards, Dr LUK Che-chung left Kwong Wah Hospital. RainLily was forced to leave during the redevelopment of Kwong Wah Hospital. RainLily was then moved to United Christian Hospital where Dr LUK Che-chung was Hospital Chief Executive. But RainLily was again forced to leave during the redevelopment of United Christian Hospital, and it was later moved to Prince of Wales Hospital. A few years ago, Prince of Wales Hospital started redevelopment and also wanted RainLily to leave. I asked Dr LEUNG Pak-yin to let RainLily stay. Finally, the Hospital Authority ("HA") was willing to let RainLily stay in Prince of Wales Hospital. Therefore, RainLily is currently still inside Prince of Wales Hospital. However, Prince of Wales Hospital will be redeveloped sooner or later, and RainLily will have to face its third relocation, but only to another place inside Prince of Wales Hospital.

This mode has been in operation for many years and what has the Government done? Since the CEASE Crisis Centre was set up, the Government has changed the guidelines and a tacit mutual understanding was built up with the Police. Since then, all the first-line cases received will not be referred to RainLily, but to the CEASE Crisis Centre because the latter is now providing one-stop services. RainLily is only a community organization which was not officially established. It merely counts on committee efforts to persuade certain members in HA, and its services can only be continued with their recognition.

Deputy President, it is under such an environment that RainLily has survived for more than a decade. How ridiculous it is. Such a good service mode has been suppressed. Despite the suppression, RainLily still receives many referral cases and the number is on the rise due to its better arrangement of services. But the Government insisted to set up another organization, which is not professional or specialized in dealing with sexual violence cases. The 4340 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

CEASE Crisis Centre deals with many kinds of cases. It is in brief a retreat centre with staff accompanying the victims to run errands, which can be called one-stop services.

I hope that Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong can follow his own aspirations and voice of conscience. He knows clearly about the situation and knows that these victims should not be running around seeking for assistance and recounting their painful experience repeatedly to strangers, even if they are professionals.

In fact, earlier this year, RainLily made a report on the information of cases processed by it over the past 17 years. It has dealt with over 3 500 cases and 2 232 of them were rape cases. Among them, only 60% (1 310 cases) have been reported to the Police, and in which, only 255 cases have been taken prosecution by the Department of Justice ("DoJ") while merely 156 cases resulted in conviction. The prosecution rate was 11% while the conviction rate was 6%. Deputy President, why is the conviction rate for such a serious crime so low? Ms Linda WONG, Executive Director of RainLily said that according to the report of DoJ in 2016, the conviction rate including guilty plea of the High Court was 91.1%. Hence, according to the level of the High Court, the conviction rate should be very high. But why is the conviction rate for such kind of cases as low as single digit? It is precisely because the victims know that it may cause them more harm to report the cases to the Police than not to report the cases or to simply give up directly. But this will encourage the criminals or their committing the crimes.

Therefore, Deputy President, in conclusion, Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong should ask himself honestly while the Food and Health Bureau should not shy away from it. Instead of passing the buck, the two Bureaux should immediately collaborate to set up a genuine crisis support centre which also provides accommodation service―the CEASE Crisis Centre has the advantage of providing accommodation service (The buzzer sounded) … whereas there is no such a service in the existing crisis centre.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHEUNG, your speaking time is up. Please stop speaking.

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SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, please accept my apology, I have been too attentive to the speeches of the Members in the debate. I wish to thank Dr Pierre CHAN once again for moving the motion this time around, and the two Members, including Ms Alice MAK and Dr Fernando CHEUNG for proposing their respective amendments. Deputy President, the motion gives Members an opportunity to discuss seriously how we should support sexual violence victims and prevent child abuse. It also brings up the issue of the provision of translation and interpretation services for ethnic minorities.

With regards to the support for sexual violence victims, just now some Members have mentioned that since 2007, the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") has launched a one-stop service centre for sexual violence cases. The one-stop service puts emphasis on a "people-oriented" principle, in which designated social workers will provide 24-hour outreach service for the victims. The social workers will also coordinate and arrange continuous supporting and follow-up services for the victims, including health care, forensic examination, the taking of statement, emotional counselling, social workers support, service information and so on. According to their experience in dealing with such cases, victims who have gone through different ordeals may have different needs, and the services they need or the venues of services will vary depending on different victims. The objective of one-stop service is to enable victims to receive the necessary services and go through all relevant procedures in a convenient, safe, confidential and supportive environment and to minimize the need for the victims to repeat accounts of their unpleasant experience.

For the purpose of supporting sexual violence victims, the Hospital Authority ("HA") has set up two designated rooms (including a back-up room) in each of the 18 public hospitals respectively for use by sexual violence victims when necessary, so as to ensure that they can receive services and go through all relevant procedures in a convenient, safe, confidential and supportive environment. When a sexual violence victim needs medical care in a public hospital, with the victim's consent, frontline worker will as soon as possible arrange for the victim to receive medical treatment, forensic examination, emotional counselling statement-taking and other relevant procedures. Relevant departments including SWD, HA and the Police will jointly inspect these designated rooms on a regular basis in order to ensure that they can meet the 4342 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 standard of being convenient, safe and private. They will also rehearse the procedures of the one-stop service in major public hospitals in order to ensure that the health care and professional staff are familiar with the procedures of the one-stop service and to work in concert with each other. At present, the service provided at the above mentioned designated rooms in 18 hospitals for sexual violence victims will enable sexual violence victims to receive timely support to a greater extent when compared with the request for setting up three crisis support centres in the New Territories, Hong Kong Island and Kowloon respectively. In the long run, HA will study if improvement works of designated rooms in newly built or renovated hospitals should be carried out for patients of various needs (including sexual violence victims) to use.

In conclusion, under the existing one-stop service model, designated social workers will accompany victims and coordinate the service and procedure to cater for the needs of victim. With the victim's consent, victims can receive one-stop services and undergo procedures at these designated rooms in 18 hospitals in Hong Kong.

To facilitate the interfacing of the departments and organizations concerned, a multi-disciplinary guidelines and procedures―the Procedural Guidelines for Handling Adult Sexual Violence Cases (revised 2007) ("the Guidelines")―have been established by SWD, HA, the Hong Kong Police Force, the Department of Justice, the Legal Aid Department and many others to promote a common approach among professionals involved in working with victims of sexual violence.

Under the Guidelines, a female nursing staff would be designated as far as possible by the public hospital to approach a female victim, comfort her and arrange a place with privacy for interview or medical examination to minimize distress. The hospital will also inform the victim as soon as possible the available social services she could receive; including the service of the designated social workers for handling sexual violence cases which provide round-the-clock outreaching and crisis intervention service. If the victim has not made a report to the Police, health care workers/medical staff should encourage the victim to report the case to the Police as early as possible and provide the victim all the necessary assistance.

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To ensure the rights and privacy of the sexual violence victims to be properly taken care of, the Police will assign an officer of the same sex who has been trained to deal with victims of sexual violence to interview the victim. With the victim's consent and as soon as practicable, the victim should be arranged to give statement and received forensic examinations at the aforementioned designated room or a venue provided by the public hospital where the victim has just received the medical treatments. Any professional social worker or suitable companion of the victim may accompany the victim to receive the Police interview and forensic examinations should the victim so desire.

As far as statistics are concerned, overall statistics on cases involving spouse/cohabitant battering and sexual violence collected by different departments and organizations are captured by the Central Information System on Spouse/Cohabitant Battering Cases and Sexual Violence Cases of SWD. Under the existing system of HA, public hospitals do not maintain figures on victims of rape cases and cases who received treatment or underwent examinations at the Accident and Emergency Department ("AED") of public hospitals. Under the AED system, with regards to statistics of indecent assault and sexual abuse cases, different diagnosis codes would be used to represent the clinical manifestations during the initial clinical diagnosis. Sexual violence would not necessary be adopted as a clinical marker. For this reason, we are unable to precisely or summarily capture the relevant statistics of sexual violence cases. The Police have not maintained the relevant statistics as mentioned in the motion. Relevant departments will study the ways to improve the keeping of the relevant statistics.

As to the handling of suspected child abuse cases, in order to serve the best interests of children and to protect children in child abuse cases or suspected child abuse cases, the Procedural Guide For Handling Child Abuse Cases (Revised 2015) ("the Procedural Guide") was jointly compiled by SWD and other departments, including HA, the Education Bureau, the Department of Health, the Hong Kong Police Force, non-governmental organizations ("NGOs") and professionals. According to the Procedural Guide, Medical Co-ordinators on Child Abuse ("MCCA") are designated by the Paediatric Departments in hospitals under HA for handling child abuse cases. Instead of sending child victims of these cases to AED, they will usually be sent directly to the paediatric ward for examinations. When health care workers discover a suspected child sexual abuse case, they will consult MCCA or admit the victim to hospital for medical treatments, and will refer the case to SWD's Family and Child Protective Services 4344 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Unit or the Child Abuse Investigation Unit of the Police for follow-up investigation. The entire procedure is based on the principle of serving the best interests of children.

Regarding the review of the Procedural Guide, in order to enhance the effective collaboration of this multi-discipline initiative, a comprehensive review on the Procedural Guide was conducted with the contribution of a task group led by SWD in November 2016. Members of the task group consulted the views of all sectors on the definition of child abuse and the approaches. Several consultation sessions were held to meet with stakeholders from different services, such as parents, children as well as people of different sexual orientations with a view to gauging views from various sectors. Later on, a focus group was formed under the task group to study and discuss the relevant views and it is anticipated to complete the review by the end of 2019.

SWD will conduct various training courses on regular basis for frontline professional workers with a view to enhancing their skills and knowledge in handling domestic violence, including those skills and knowledge in child abuse cases. Such courses aim at strengthening the abilities of frontline personnel in crisis assessment, violence prevention and post-trauma counselling. Furthermore, SWD will also send its staff to attend training courses in children protection for frontline workers organized by the Education Bureau, the Hong Kong Police Force, the Department of Health and NGOs. In 2017-2018, SWD has organized 160 training courses for frontline professionals; about 7 700 people have attended these training courses.

Moreover, in order to enhance the frontline social workers' understanding of the situation and needs of ethnic minorities and sexual minorities, SWD has all along been providing the relevant courses for frontline social workers with a view to enhancing their skills and manners in providing services for people of different backgrounds.

To fully equip officers with the skills and knowledge in handling cases of sexual offences, the Police College and its Detective Training Centre have incorporated relevant topics into various regular courses, including foundation training course for recruit constables, foundation training course for probationary inspectors, development courses, promotion courses and criminal investigation LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4345 courses and so on. In addition, the Police have also incorporated such topics as professional sensitivity required for handling victims of abuse and sexual violence cases into the contents of on-the-job trainings.

With regards to the interpretation services for ethnic minorities, since the languages, culture and service needs of various ethnic minorities vary from each other, and the backgrounds of interpreters are not uniformed, so far no translation and interpretation service standard has been adopted. But to ensure a reasonable service quality, public hospitals and the Home Affairs Department have set out appropriate requirements for the provision of translation and interpretation service by NGOs.

Interpretation services are mainly provided by service contractor engaged by public hospitals. Part-time court interpreters and the corresponding Consulates will provide interpretation service covering 18 ethnic minority languages for ethnic minorities who are in need of interpretation service. All public hospitals have formulated guidelines for its staff on the procedures of arranging interpretation services so as to make more effective deployment of the service. In order to ensure the quality of interpretation, HA will arrange medical knowledge training courses for all interpreters through the service contractor (currently the H.K.S.K.H. Lady MACLEHOSE Centre). HA would invite representatives from faculties of Chinese and bilingual studies in local tertiary institutions to conduct annual hospital inspection with a view to monitoring the quality of interpreters. The results of the questionnaire survey conducted in the past showed that service users found the interpretation service provided by public hospitals and clinics satisfactory. Moreover, the Home Affairs Department entrusted the Hong Kong Christian Service to operate the Centre for Harmony and Enhancement of Ethnic Minority Residents ("CHEER"). Besides various basic services, such as tailored courses and integration programmes, CHEER also conducts general translation and interpretation service covering 7 ethnic minority languages. All the interpreters from CHEER are required to have at least completed local or overseas secondary school education and to be able to speak and write English and at least 1 ethnic minority language. Other than the recruitment examination, interpreters are required to receive regular assessment and trainings.

Deputy President, I so submit. I will give my response to Members' views and the amendments of three Members after I have heard their views. Thank you, Deputy President.

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MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, all crimes involving violence and abuse are cancers to society as they inflict physical and psychological trauma on the victims. The harm done to victims of sexual violence and tender young children is especially deep and overwhelming. When the abuser is a family member or when the tragedy involves people with special needs, the case will be all the more complicated. It is incumbent upon the community to provide appropriate support for the victims, helping them survive difficult times and seek justice. This is much more than a show of interpersonal care, as it is a matter of vital public interest to maintain justice and social security.

Unfortunately, however, this is never easy, not even in other places around the globe. This explains why the "#MeToo" campaign in the United States which seeks to decry sexual abuses that happened many years ago and the Korean movie The Crucible have attracted attention worldwide. Owing to factors such as social labelling, other people's judgment and the taboo on sex, it taxes the courage of the victim in taking the first step to confide to others and seek help. The victims will be further subject to extreme pressure when undergoing medical examination, giving statement after reporting to the Police and testifying in court, as they have to recount their painful and awfully shameful experience in great detail to different strangers again and again, in addition to getting cross-examined. To many victims, such experience is tantamount to reopening old wounds. Because of these obstacles and hurdles, many innocent victims would choose to remain silent and spare the wrongdoers from punishment. Regrettably, such cases also happen in Hong Kong.

In recent years, several incidents allegedly involving sexual abuse or child abuse have drawn heightened concern from the community. Apart from the outrage we feel upon seeing the wicked human nature in these cases, it is the helplessness of the victims that provokes our attention. To protect the victims' rights, corresponding mechanisms have been put in place over the years. More than a decade ago, the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") introduced 24-hour one-stop services to handle cases of sexual violence. The victim would receive health care and forensic examinations, make statement to the Police and get counselling and supportive services from social workers concurrently. SWD has also reached a collaborative agreement with the Hospital Authority for providing these one-stop services in designated rooms in 17 hospitals across the territory. But then, no matter how much work has been done by the authorities, the most important question remains: Can these really help the victims?

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According to the records provided by the Police, only four out of a total 65 rape cases that happened in 2017 received medical service and forensic examinations concurrently while giving statement via the one-stop services. Deputy President, it was four out of 65 cases. Simply take a look at this figure and we know the usage is definitely on the low side. The authorities have provided some reasons to account for this. Deputy President, some of these reasons cited by the bureau are understandable. For instance, given the variations in case details and in the preferences of the victims, the services may not be offered to them on the same spot simultaneously. However, some other contributing factors are related to the downright ill-preparedness of the relevant parties in offering the services. For instance, the high utilization of wards in public hospitals precluded the immediate availability of rooms for the purpose; the Police need to take statements from victims by way of video-recorded interview but the relevant facilities are unavailable in the Accident and Emergency Department of hospitals; some victims need interpretation in giving statements but appropriate service was not readily available to them, and so on. The relevant parties should bear the responsibilities for all these fallacies which prevented the victims from getting the support of the one-stop services. I urge the relevant parties to jointly conduct a comprehensive review, put their feet into the shoes of the victims, genuinely address the latter's needs to improve the services, and hence avoid rendering the one-stop services into purely formal facilities.

Deputy President, looking back at this motion today, one can see that many suggestions raised in the original motion and its amendments are quite humble. These suggestions primarily centre on the call for "designating a suitable place with high privacy protection for setting up a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre in three public hospitals", for the authorities to properly record the figures on victims' reception of examination and giving statement in public hospitals, for enhancing the sensitivity and skills of the relevant frontline personnel in dealing with the relevant cases; and for a uniform standard in interpretation services. I will give these suggestions my support as they should have been put in place much earlier.

Deputy President, I would like to add one more point before I stop. The suggestions raised today, even if they are all realized, are just a small step towards giving support to victims. To combat sexual violence and child abuse 4348 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 cases thoroughly, to strive for the goal of "zero victim", we need cooperation and contributions from various sectors in society, including staying vigilant on potential cases, eliminating bias towards sexual crimes and victims, expeditiously keeping the relevant legislation abreast of the times, raising the sensitivity of the Police and the judicial system in dealing with the relevant cases so as to ensure the victims that they will be protected appropriately and their cases will be dealt with in a fair and just manner for justice to prevail.

Deputy President, I so submit.

MR LEUNG YIU-CHUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I have listened to the Secretary's reply just now. He seems to find the Government rather, if not totally, perfect in handling and settling the victims of sexual violence or assault. It has led to a feeling that the colleagues who have proposed the original motion and even the amendments are each engaging in hyperbolic rhetoric and Rashomon-like narratives.

However, Deputy President, in any case, I urge the Secretary to understand Members' perspectives by patiently listening to their speeches, despite his belief that there are no problems. I feel that all the colleagues who have proposed the original motion and the amendments are inclined to hope that the Government acts in accordance with the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by the World Health Organization ("WHO"), so as to enable victims to receive the relevant medical and legal services at the same hospital or location and complete all procedures without needing to laboriously go to different places. Deputy President, in short, I think we should understand the needs of sexual violence victims from an empathetic perspective, because they have endured a very traumatic experience, both psychologically and physically. If they still have to undergo complicated and lengthy procedures of police reporting and injury assessment after the incident, it amounts to "secondary victimization" for them.

Nevertheless, we find the Government's current support services for sexual violence victims really unsatisfactory. Very often, the victims need to personally run around between different government departments after the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4349 incident. The common procedure is to, for example, first undergo injury assessment and take medication in hospital, and then go to a police station to report the case themselves. The initial statement taken in the report room will be referred to a dedicated team in the police district of occurrence for follow-up and further evidence taking. If necessary, they have to return to the scene to secure evidence, and finally go to the forensic centre for taking forensic evidence, where they have to recount the whole incident again to the forensic examiner. Afterwards, they have to return to the police station for official statement taking. As Dr Pierre CHAN said, during the whole process, which is mentally and physically exhausting for the victims as it takes at least eight hours, and possibly more than 20 hours at the longest, the victims have to repeatedly recount the incident and recall the process and experience of sexual assault. Is this practice humane? Will it be "secondary victimization"?

Moreover, for some cases involving violence, the forensic examination and statement taking were actually carried out at the Accident and Emergency Department, where we all know there is always a huge flow of people and most patients are separated only by curtains during examination, and thus a highly privacy-protective environment is hardly available for the victims. Under such circumstances, how can they feel at ease to recount the incident? Will they be afraid to speak out because of embarrassment and fear?

Therefore, in order to reduce the possibility of victims being subjected to "secondary victimization" in the course of seeking help, I absolutely support the original motion for setting up one or more safe 24-hour one-stop crisis support centres ("CSCs"), which conform to the WHO guidelines and provide high privacy protection, in public hospitals respectively in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories, thereby allowing victims to undergo such procedures as receiving treatment, reporting to police, statement taking, forensic examination and counselling at the same place. The biggest difference from the current practice is that victims do not need to run around, and the Government can coordinate the professionals from various departments to provide support at the CSCs while at the same time meeting the victims' needs, thus sparing them having to repeatedly recount the whole incident. I hold that the CSCs should draw up guidelines by, for example, taking reference from Taiwan's practice, which requires that the professionals from various departments gather in a 4350 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 designated room to simultaneously hear the victim recount the incidence, and that the police's designated follow-up team takes a detailed statement afterwards if necessary.

In addition, some victims have relayed to us that the attitude of the police officers taking statements is not so friendly as the Secretary described. On the contrary, their appalling attitude has resulted in "secondary victimization" in many cases. Some victims are more likely to give up reporting after being hurt again. Therefore, I think the motion is right in proposing that frontline personnel who deal with victims of sexual violence should be provided with professional training for better skills to handle the cases of different victims, so as to avoid "secondary victimization" and discouragement from seeking help.

It is a pity that Mr SHIU Ka-chun is absent today. I agree with his amendment that two professional teams should be formed in each CSC and dedicated respectively to handling various types of sexual violence cases and child abuse cases, without overlapping of resources. In addition, in the case of a victim directly making a report to a police post, police officers should be required to immediately notify the CSC in the district concerned, which will dedicate a team to take over the case and coordinate the procedures of injury assessment, statement taking and psychological counselling in a one-stop manner, thereby sparing the victim having to repeatedly recount the details of the incident as I said just now, and reducing secondary victimization.

Lastly, I feel that many sexual violence victims in Hong Kong often, out of psychological fear, dare not seek help and report the cases. Unfortunately, any delay will make it more difficult to secure evidence in the future. Therefore, a CSC that provides a reassuring environment will be very useful to the victims. I think Malaysia has done a very good job in setting up one-stop CSCs in public hospitals since 1996, resulting in an increase in the number of reported rape cases (The buzzer sounded) …

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, your speaking time is up. Please stop speaking.

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MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): Deputy President, sexual violence and child abuse are issues that our society needs to address. Sexual violence is no rare occurrence in different countries and cultures, and victims of sexual violence can be people of any gender and age. For child abuse, as the abused children usually do not have adequate knowledge of their rights and schools may adopt different approaches to domestic violence cases, it always happens that child abuse cases are not handled in time. No matter whether it is a sexual violence or child abuse case, the psychological impact experienced by the victims can be very serious and persistent and may even affect their entire life. As a civilized city with the rule of law, Hong Kong certainly needs a mechanism to help the victims.

(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

In recent years, the number of sexual violence and child abuse cases received by the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") has shown a rising trend. In 2017, 967 cases of sexual violence were reported to SWD, representing an increase of 12.3% as compared with 2016, and that means there were around 2 or more cases relating to sexual violence every day on average. Similarly, the number of child abuse cases is also on an increasing trend from year to year, with the number of reported cases growing from 874 in 2015 to 947 in 2017. The situation should not be ignored.

I concur with the suggestion of Dr CHAN made in the original motion that a 24-hour crisis support centre should be set up in three regions respectively, with reference to the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence ("the Guideline") issued by the World Health Organization. Meanwhile, abused children should be included as their targets of support as suggested by the Guideline. This approach is practicable. Going through the Guideline, one can see that it covers a wide scope of areas, including the specific details of the support services, the scope of services, and the ways to assess and follow up cases. The Guidelines set down the standards for handling these cases by the frontline staff, specifying the requirements in respect of various aspects such as medical treatment, forensic examination and follow-up work of social workers. Even though no support centre has been set up yet and the Government claims that a one-stop arrangement is already available, I still consider the Guidelines a useful reference for the frontline medical personnel, police officers and social workers.

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President, sexual violence can occur in different circumstances, such as home environment, workplace, schools, the community, etc. In many cases, victims of sexual violence are too embarrassed to mention their experiences under the pressure from the surrounding environment. Failure to handle these cases in a timely manner will cause the victims to suffer from varying degrees of emotional or psychological disorders. As regards child abuse cases, according to the latest statistics of this year submitted by SWD, nearly 70% abusers were parents of the victims, and this type of cases are often more difficult to detect. Information of the Royal College of Psychiatrists shows that people who have experienced sexual violence and physical abuse, regardless of age, will suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. Therefore, the authorities must handle these cases with care and formulate comprehensive follow-up procedures. Under the current approach, victims of sexual violence need to go through long and complicated procedures. They have to travel among the police station, hospital and office of forensic pathologists to repeat the facts of their cases to the police officers and medical staff again and again. Not only will this evoke the relevant memories of the victims, it may also subject them to secondary victimization because of the repeated questioning by the relevant officers. This year, there have been media reports that some victims ultimately gave up pursing their cases after they learnt about the need to go through medical and legal procedures lasting between 10 and 24 hours. The lengthy investigation process and tiresome legal procedures are, therefore, the reasons for the low prosecution rate which Dr Fernando CHEUNG mentioned just now. Such situation shows that the Administration needs to review the existing policy and approach. I guess that the situation about the handling of child abuse cases is more or less the same. Hence, I share Ms Alice MAK's view about setting up one-stop crisis support centres with a professional team handling the cases so as to avoid subjecting the victims to secondary victimization.

As for Mr SHIU Ka-chun's amendment, he proposed that two professional teams should be formed in each crisis support centre, with one team dedicated to handling sexual violence cases and the other for child abuse cases. I have some reservations about it. While his proposal is well-intentioned, it is too idealistic. With an increasing demand for public health care services from the community, the waiting situation has not been improved despite a substantial increase in the fees and charges for the use of accident and emergency services. Due to the pressure of the working environment, there is a high turnover of full-time doctors and nurses in the front line. The shortage of manpower is simply an obvious LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4353 fact. The Government has begun discussing with the University Grants Committee about increasing the number of subsidized places for health care professionals, in a bid to attract more people to join the public health care system. However, these measures alone cannot resolve the present problem of manpower shortage. Given the present manpower, I think setting up a professional team in each centre is already a difficult task. If we are to set up two professional teams to provide one-stop services, it will only add to the pressure of the public health care system and indirectly affect other public health care services. Therefore, if it is the decision of the Government to establish crisis support centres for handling more complex cases of sexual violence and child abuse, it should make proper allocation of manpower resources and draw up a reasonable budget for the centres. The process for handling relevant cases should be streamlined as much as possible so that the cases can be handled properly with the victims suffering from minimal impact and the perpetrators being brought to justice.

President, I so submit.

MR ALVIN YEUNG (in Cantonese): President, because of my profession, I have met victims of sexual violence in court. Certainly, I have acted for the prosecution as well as the defence in court, and not every case has turned out as desired. No matter which side I represent, however, I can always find one thing in common: all those who are willing to come forward to testify on the witness stand are definitely courageous and good-natured.

President, first, I must thank Dr Pierre CHAN for proposing this motion, and I also wish to thank Members who have proposed the amendments. On behalf of the Civic Party, I speak in support of the original motion and all the amendments. Actually, the question arising from this motion or debate is―just as several Members clearly pointed out earlier―what we can do with our system in the light of Hong Kong's existing situation. I believe there is no dispute that it is not easy for anyone to willingly take the first step to overcome his or her psychological barrier. Understandably, there is pressure arising from the repeated recounting of the incident to strangers after the trauma, the revelation of his or her experience to others again, the fear of being ridiculed, and the gossipy remarks of others. Many people choose unwillingly to remain silent because of the pressure I just mentioned.

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While we encourage children who have been sexually assaulted to tell people whom they trust, what have we done to help adult victims and to provide a trustworthy environment for them to recount their actual experiences? Very often, what a victim meets upon entry into the police station is the question of whether the very police district is the right place to handle the case. On many occasions, it may not be the right one. We cannot blame the victims for that because they have no idea which police district is the right one. It is simply unfortunate that after they have recounted their own experience to the police officer they first met in the police station of a police district, they need to go to another police district to do the same thing again. More often than not, they need to approach a social worker for counselling, to undergo further examinations, and also, to recount their traumas again and again. All these may constitute secondary victimization, tertiary victimization, or even further victimization. This is something undesirable for sure. We have to accept that the court proceedings are not perfect, and the victims still need to recount their traumatic experience in court. However, if we can minimize the situations described above and provide the victims with the protection which makes them feel safe and secure to relate their experience, I believe that it will definitely do good to both the victims and the pursuit of justice in society in the end.

President, I believe that numbers can explain everything. The crime figures in the first half of 2018 released by the Police show that there were only nine reported cases of rape. Does this figure reflect the reality? I surely hope that it does. But the worrying point is whether those institutional and man-made hurdles that I just mentioned have made the victims baulk at coming forward, thus resulting in such a low figure.

For adults, they, of course, have the right and freedom to decide whether to report their cases, but the abused children are not in such position as they lack the information and wisdom. In many cases, they just do not know how they should seek help. What they need is probably adult intervention and assistance. Indeed, teachers or social workers are often the ones who help to reveal the cases. It is because of them that we can learn about the plight of those children. Records show that over the past five years, the Social Welfare Department received nearly 1 000 reports of child abuse cases per year. President, on average only 47.6 cases ended up with successful prosecution through legal procedures. Of course, the absence of offence for child abuse in Hong Kong may have some direct bearing on that. In respect of the procedures for handling child abuse cases, however, is there anything that equally warrants a review and LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4355 calls for improvement? I believe, the public officials in attendance today surely know the answer and they should point out the right direction for Hong Kong people.

President, today's motion precisely seeks to provide the Government and society with a set of correct and humanitarian procedures for assisting the relevant victims. These procedures open up a door for the victims and enable us to accept social imperfection, thereby allowing us to see room for improvement. Setting up crisis support centres in public hospitals, I believe, is the first step in the right direction. Hong Kong is definitely not a poor society―Of course, we do have a large poor population, but the public coffers are abundant. If we were too stingy to put in resources to help the victims, I believe we could hardly claim to be an international modern city.

President, I therefore hope that the Secretary will not get defensive and argue that Hong Kong is good enough when he gives his reply later. Instead, I hope, he will be practical and accept that our society really has room for improvement. We, too, have to provide assistance to other people such as teachers and social workers I mentioned just now. They need to equip themselves with more knowledge so that they will know how to intervene when they encounter relevant situations. Surely, teachers and social workers aside, we should not leave out frontline police officers. I appreciate that their workloads are very heavy, but if we do not provide them with correct information and simple procedures, I believe that they will fail to achieve the results we want, no matter how committed they are to doing so.

Certainly, a crisis support centre is not something popping up from nowhere. What we have to ask now is whether the Hospital Authority ("HA") has the ability to run this centre while suffering financial deficits year after year. My worry is that if the Government continues to slash the funding for HA in the future, this centre will end up being an empty shell. I thus hope that the SAR Government will not only cherish the existing resources, but also allocate more resources to assist those in genuine need. I believe this motion today will command the support of Members from different political parties and groupings, because, after all, the targets it intends to help are Hong Kong people. I also hope that the SAR Government will not only listen with an open mind, but take genuine actions as well. I believe Secretary Dr LAW will not let us down.

Thank you, President.

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DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I thank Dr Pierre CHAN for proposing this motion. (Cough) Sorry, I have not fully recovered yet. On behalf of the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong ("DAB"), I speak in support of the original motion and the amendments proposed by Ms Alice MAK and Dr Fernando CHEUNG.

Sexual abuse and sexual violence are not rare in Hong Kong, really. Instead, they often happen. The survey conducted by Hong Kong Women's Coalition on Equal Opportunities in 2013 shows that one in every seven women in Hong Kong has been subject to sexual violence, and there is one case of sexual violence approximately every 7.4 hours. The information from RainLily also shows that between 2000 and 2017, 3 501 requests for assistance were received, covering cases of rape, indecent assault and sexual harassment. The number has soared by 116% over these 17 years.

President, as a gentleman, you might possibly not ask a lady whether she has ever been indecently assaulted or raped, but sometimes during a chat among ladies … Secretary, from time to time, I ask other ladies if they have been subject to sexual abuse or sexual harassment in their childhood or growing-up years. I would like to tell Members that almost 9 out of 10 of these ladies tell me that they had have this kind of experience. For example, some have been indecently assaulted by senior members of their families or teachers in childhood but only came to recognize the incidents as indecent assaults as an adult. Some of them, especially those secondary school students in school dress, are frequently subject to indecent assaults while taking public transport such as buses and the MTR. When I ask them whether they have made a report to the Police or shouted for help, they often answer in the negative, stating that they just feel scared. To be frank, I had the experience of being indecently assaulted on public transport too when I was small. At that very moment, I only felt frightened and then, as an institutive reaction, I froze, I mean I became motionless, losing the abilities to move and to speak. I simply did not know what to do except feeling frightened. Did I tell my family about it afterwards? I did not dare to do so. Nor did I know how to talk about it. When it comes to women of working age, if we talk to them, we will find that among every 10 of them, many have encountered sexual harassment in office, or have even been indecently assaulted by their superiors. None of these is surprising at all.

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Sexual abuse is like a social taboo that should not talked or asked about. This is particularly the case when the offender is someone the victim is familiar with, for example, a senior member of the family, or someone who is in a position of power over the victim, such as pastors, priests, teachers or professors. That is why we can see from the past statistics that as regards cases of harassment, most of the respondents (44%) would actually choose not to report their cases. Some would even stay silent and tell no one about what had happened. Even if the unfortunate victims of sexual abuse have reported their cases, the investigations regarding most of these cases will ultimately be terminated or discontinued. So far as we can see, such cases are abundant, in fact.

In the unfortunate event that a person has been sexually abused, what will she go through then? As seen in movies and as often heard from others, it is nothing but an extremely unpleasant experience. A person who has been sexually abused will be filled with fright, anger, self-blame and exhaustion. After the incident, who should she turn to for help? She has no idea at all. When she really knows how to seek help, she may go to the hospital. But then if she goes to the hospital, she will have to go through a series of procedures. She will not be told immediately about what she will subsequently go through. We have been told by the frontline staff of RainLily that victims cannot get any sleep in the next 15 hours to 20 hours, because they will have to undergo physical examination at the hospital, take contraceptives, and then go to the police station to make a report. Sometimes, they may also have to return to the scene of the incident for gathering evidence and identification of relevant places. Afterwards, they may have to go to the forensic pathologist again for evidence collection, following which they may need to go back to the police station again to make a statement. When it comes to giving statements, they may be required to recount the incident five times to seven times, because they have to make a statement at the police station first before further statements are taken by police officers from the Criminal Investigation Department and the unit responsible for serious crimes. Then, they will narrate the incident again during forensic examination, and relate it once more for making a formal statement. As a result, they may have to recount the incident five times to seven times, and of course, they will have to do the same when appearing in court. It is only after a series of procedures can the victims get the chance to clean themselves up, and by then, they are already fatigued. In many cases, the victims give up halfway through the relevant procedures.

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As informed by the statistics of RainLily, many cases are cases of delayed reports and such situation is desperate. For example, among the 2 318 cases of rape they handled in the past, the average lapse of time between the occurrence of a case and the report of it is 949 days, i.e. two years and seven months, and, on many occasions, it is impossible for the forensic pathologist to collect any evidence then. Victims who can complete the series of procedures I just described within 20 hours are just the minority.

If the one-stop services proposed in this motion are really available, will they be conducive to higher reporting rate and detection rate, and be helpful to police investigation? I believe all of us are certain that they will. However, the remarks made by the Secretary just now seem to suggest that the Government has already done everything possible and there is no need for us to offer further suggestions. As a matter of fact, it is not true. While Hong Kong appears to be a very open society, it is actually extremely conservative and Hong Kong people still stigmatize victims of sexual violence. When we call for the release of information about black spots of accidental exposure, some people will argue that everything will be fine if women avoid wearing skirts or dresses. If a woman is raped, they will say that nothing would have happened but for the sexy clothes she wore and her visit to the other's home. They always put the blame on the victims, thus deterring the victims from making a report and seeking help.

What this motion puts forward are some very humble and reasonable requests. I can see no reason why the Government can refuse to set up three one-stop service premises to provide professional services aiming at helping victims to ride out the hard times, assisting them in pursuing justice, minimizing secondary victimization, and shortening all the procedures to help them. This being the case, President, I think the Government is duty-bound to take actions.

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, I would first of all like to thank Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion on providing support for sexual violence victims. The Government has always been reluctant to talk about sex issues. It even takes an evasive attitude when facing such issues. The subject under discussion today actually involves different bureaux. Apart from the Labour and Welfare Bureau and the Food and Health Bureau, the Security Bureau has an important part to play too. I have proposed to discuss at meetings of the Panel on Security complaints against police officers for having sexually abused sex workers and receiving free sex service, but the Security Bureau prevaricated LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4359 in its reply and was reluctant to discuss the matters. If even the Government chooses to take an evasive attitude and refuses to give positive responses to these concerns, how can we possibly provide support for sexual violence victims as proposed in this motion, or as I am going to suggest, assist sexual violence victims who are sexual or gender minorities?

As the issue of sex has been severely stigmatized in our society, sexual violence victims are often required to overcome a lot of psychological hurdles before they can pluck up courage to report their case to the Police, seek medical treatment and forensic examinations. During the process, most victims tend to back down in the face of the slightest obstructions, inconveniences or risks, because they fear that they will be humiliated or the case will be uncovered, or they do not wish to make a big fuss of the matter or face criticisms from others. They will simply give up the idea of seeking assistance or reporting their case to the Police and let the abusers go.

According to the latest crime statistics released by the Hong Kong Police Force, there were 65 rape cases last year, and although the number seems to be on the low side, this is obviously an underestimation. Statistics maintained by RainLily reveal that 44% of the victims have not reported their case to the Police. Among the other 56% in which the victims made a report, the investigation of 712 cases was suspended half-way eventually. Hence, all cases included in the crime statistics maintained by the Hong Kong Police Force were reported with the greatest courage by the victims against all odds. In doing so, they have to overcome a lot of psychological hurdles, bring their painful memory to mind again and again, and sustain great suffering.

The requests made by community groups are very humble. They just wish to ensure protection for sexual violence victims and imposition of penalty on sexual abusers. Hence, efforts have to be made to give victims greater motivation to report sexual violence cases, including reducing the time needed for reporting such cases and streamlining the reporting procedures, the shorter the reporting time the better.

The proposals put forward in the original motion are the most basic requests. It is because a professional oriented approach has been previously adopted for handling sexual violence cases and experts of different disciplines are stationed at their own offices. Victims who are obviously the ones who have suffered need to go through all the troubles of visiting different offices in person 4360 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 to seek assistance. The proposals under discussion seek to change the mechanism so that a victim-based approach will be adopted to provide victims with one-stop services. This is a gesture to show our respect for the victims who are emotionally very vulnerable after being sexually abused. Not even a second of delay should be allowed in order to get justice done. By doing so, we can at least lower the threshold for reporting sexual violence cases, thus enhancing the chance of bringing sex offenders to justice.

As a matter of fact, people in our society often have a subjective impression on sexual violence cases, thinking that the abusers must always be men, and that only men will beat up women. In fact, when it comes to sexual violence, there is no difference in term gender, race, sex orientation and gender identity. I remember that when I was a child, I went swimming and someone there tried to chase after me and caress my thigh. On another occasion, I rode on the MTR in shorts and somebody pinched my bottom, but I did not know how I should react and was at a loss as to what I should do. Due to inadequate legal protection in the past, many sexual violence victims were compelled to suffer in silence. With the amendments introduced to the Domestic and Cohabitation Relationships Violence Ordinance to cover same-sex partnership, sexual violence cases in homosexual relationships can finally be boldly made known to the public, thereby enhancing public awareness and arousing public concerns in this respect. Sexual minorities may also get hurt, and they should be treated equally and be provided with the same support as heterosexual persons.

Les Corner Empowerment Association, a local homosexual organization, published in August this year the results of a survey conducted jointly with the Department of Social Work of the Chinese on violence in intimate lesbian relationships. The survey results reveal that 77.8% of the victims were subject to intimate violence on at least one occasion; 23.6% of the victims were subject to sexual violence, while 70% of them were victims of forced sex. A community survey report was also released by the Transgender Resource Center at the beginning of this year, and the results reveal that 45.9% of the respondents were victims of violence, and 3.2% of such cases were sexual violence cases.

As for the level of satisfaction with the assistance rendered by police officers and the Social Welfare Department ("SWD"), according to the survey conducted by Les Corner Empowerment Association, they only got a score of 1.46 and 1.41 respectively out of a full score of 10. Among the lesbian victims, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4361 only 22% have sought assistance from the Police or SWD, representing a very low percentage. It can thus be seen that for sexual violence victims who are sexual minorities, their trust in frontline personnel and the awareness of such personnel are very important factors affecting their reporting rate.

When compared with heterosexual persons, the threshold for sexual minorities to report their case to the Police is even higher because there is the worry that no one will understand what they say, not even police officers, doctors and social workers. Many people do not understand why sexual violence cases can occur among homosexual persons because they have the wrong impression that only penetrative sex will fall within the definition of sexual violence. It can thus be seen that there is indeed a need to enhance the awareness of frontline personnel on cases involving sexual minorities so that victims who are seeking assistance can at least feel that they are trusted, respected and understood. Otherwise, sexual minorities will only have the feeling that seeking assistance from frontline personnel is merely like talking to a brick wall or is simply insulting. There is an example I would like to share. It occurs to me that when handling exhibits of cases involving sexual minorities, police officers tend to consider the exhibits very filthy, and special labels will be put on them to state that they belong to gay men, so that they will be handled with particular care.

The survey results have also reflected concerns in this respect. When asked about the factors affecting victims' desire for seeking assistance, the options chosen by the highest percentage of respondents are "dare not seek assistance for fear of being discriminated against by professional personnel", and "discouraged by the concern that the organization from which assistance is sought does not know how to handle issues concerning same-sex couples". Therefore, apart from one-stop "software" support, training on the relevant knowledge should also be provided to frontline personnel to enhance their awareness of the needs of sexual minorities, as well as people of different sexual orientations or gender identities.

I also wish to talk about protection for sex workers, but I am afraid my speaking time is running out. I would like to point out that in the process of providing sex service, sex workers may also be subject to sexual violence and abuse, but they dare not seek assistance because they have already been labelled. With regard to cases of sex workers being sexually abused, police officers are sometimes of the view that this is what they deserve because they must bear the consequences of their own choice. The International Day to End Violence 4362 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Against Sex Workers falls on 17 December each year, but I hope that apart from sex workers, all people, regardless of their gender, sexual orientation and gender identity, will be free from sexual violence and free to determine their own sex in a voluntary and independent manner. I support the original motion and its amendments proposed by various Members and hope that the Government would actively consider the proposals put forward.

MR IP KIN-YUEN (in Cantonese): President, as Mr SHIU Ka-chun has to attend a court hearing and is unable to elaborate his views personally in this Chamber, he has asked me to present his views on his behalf. I will highlight Mr SHIU Ka-chun's views and explanation on his amendment in the following paragraphs.

President, Mr SHIU would like to thank Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion today. If we look back on the history of the Legislative Council, we will know that the issue of providing support services to sexual violence victims was last discussed at a Council meeting in 2000, when a motion with no binding effect was moved by Mr James TO in this respect. After the passage of the motion, our society has undergone some changes, and we have at least witnessed in December 2000 the establishment of RainLily, a sexual violence concern group providing relevant services since then. Mr SHIU supports Dr Pierre CHAN's motion, because the humanized procedures to support services to victims of sexual abuse cases have been seriously considered. However, before explaining the details of his amendment, Mr SHIU wishes to say a few words about two confusions of the Government.

The first is about the differences between one-stop services and package services. As mentioned just now, RainLily has been urging for the provision of many different services, including the setting up of a one-stop crisis support centre, but its efforts turned out to be futile over the past 18 years. Mr SHIU is of the view that if we look into the reasons behind, we will see that the failure to set up such a centre is not caused by the difficulties faced by the Government, but by its unwillingness to do so.

In his reply to an oral question raised by Dr Pierre CHAN at the Council meeting of 27 June this year, Secretary for Security John LEE indicated that one-stop services had already been provided by various departments for sexual violence victims to receive various support services, such as medical treatment, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4363 forensic examinations, statement taking and counselling from social workers. However, these are in fact package services rather than one-stop services. By using the term "one-stop", we are referring to the fact that with the provision of such services, we can save victims the trouble of running around among different organizations and government departments. They can simply stay at the support centre to directly receive various services like medical treatment, forensic examinations and statement taking, and need not run among different places to seek services from the hospital, forensic pathologists and the Police. The Bureau has confused the concepts of package services and one-stop services, and Mr SHIU considers this one of the reasons why a crisis support centre have not been set up all these years.

The second confusion involves a very serious argument, that is, we do not have enough number of victims to justify the setting up of such a centre. Mr SHIU Ka-chun was told by some fellow colleagues that the figures of sexual violence victims maintained all these years were not large enough to support the setting up of a crisis support centre, and this remark was extremely frustrating and disappointing to him. Figures maintained by the Social Welfare Department reveal that there were 967 newly reported cases of sexual violence in 2017, representing an average of three cases per day. Does the Government still consider these figures not large enough? How large should the figures of sexual violence victims be in order to secure the Government's consent for the provision of such services? Moreover, we should bear in mind that sexual violence victims will find it very embarrassing to talk about the incident, and given the inadequacies in the system itself, it is really difficult for us to ascertain the exact number of victims who have chosen to suffer alone and give up making a report to the relevant authorities.

Mr SHIU Ka-chun has also asked me to make an explanation of his amendment here, and he would like to draw Members' attention to three main points. First, he proposes to enhance clarity of the term "sexual violence victims" in Dr CHAN's motion by specifying that it refers to "all types of" sexual violence victims. The harm caused by sexual violence is not merely confined to serious crimes such as the offence of raping, and improper acts of indecent assault and sexual harassment can also bring unimaginable trauma to women and even everyone. It is therefore proposed that the motion should cover all types of sexual violence victims.

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As for the second main point of the amendment, it is proposed that a crisis support centre should be formed with two professional teams, one dedicated to handling various types of sexual violence cases whereas the other dedicated to handling child abuse cases. The reason is very simple: Social workers who are skilful in handling sexual violence cases may not necessarily be good at handling child abuse cases, and the same also applies to the personnel providing other services. Given that juvenile cases are totally different from adult cases, they should not be handled by the same group of professional personnel.

Thirdly, Mr SHIU Ka-chun points out in his amendment that in the case of a victim making a report to a police station, police officers are required to immediately notify a crisis support centre to take over the case so that the need for uniformed police officers inquiring the victim about the incident can be avoided. Many Members have already elaborated on this point. We all understand that secondary victimization will be resulted every time when victims are made to recount the details of the incident, and we should thus avoid occurrence of such a situation as far as possible.

Mr SHIU's conclusion is very simple. In his opinion, although Secretary John LEE boasted that the Hong Kong Police Force's detection rate in respect of rape cases was as high as 95.1%, many victims of such cases have actually chosen not to make a report for fear of being made to go through the reporting procedures. Mr SHIU opines that the Secretary should understand that due to the impact of secondary victimization arising from the reporting process, some sexual violence victims have to seek psychological counselling. From the perspective of social workers, Mr SHIU Ka-chun said that they would always take side with the victims. Secretary John LEE may not consider it agreeable, but Mr SHIU encourages sexual violence victims to make a report to the Police only when they have got well prepared for what may occur. We should strive to make enhancements to the system through our debate here in this Council and provide a platform with adequate support so that everyone can put their mind at ease when seeking assistance. The points set out above are the gist of Mr SHIU Ka-chun's views.

I would like to point out in the remaining time that we should also attach importance to the issue concerning abused children. The same principle should also be applied to the handling of child abuse cases with a view to sparing victims the need to repeatedly recount the details of how they were abused by adults LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4365 because it is most pathetic for them to undergo such a process. Therefore, we should also attach importance to the situation of abused children and provide them with one-stop services.

I so submit.

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): Dr Pierre CHAN proposes the motion on "Requesting the Government to set up crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals". The rectifications put forth in the motion for alleviating incidents involving sexual violence and child abuse are actually very modest ones. It can be said that they are by no means drastic measures.

The Secretary's earlier reply was indeed very disappointing, as he prevaricated and equivocated. Will the authorities set up such support centres? The request to the authorities for setting up one-stop centres in public hospitals as a means of rectifying the administrative procedures for dealing with sexual violence or child abuse cases is actually a mere request to the authorities for improving the administrative environment, so as to deal with the relevant problems more appropriately. Nevertheless, the authorities have failed to give a clear account, while also saying that they have not compiled any statistics or data. The Secretary's reply in the whole morning is very disappointing.

I hope to explain one point clearly before coming to my conclusion. First, we use "instances" or "cases" to describe incidents of sexual violence or child abuse. But the impacts of sexual violence cases are not restricted to the case itself. Such cases will actually produce lifelong impacts on the victims and also their families, friends and relatives. Not only individual victims but also their entire families will be affected.

If Members have seen movies with such themes, they will realize that the impacts of these cases … Spanish film director Pedro Almodóvar directed many movies with sex as the theme in his early years, and his movies clearly explain the resultant impacts to viewers. If Members are not clear about the impacts, they may go to see some more recent movies of his. Nevertheless, why are people so very concerned about the relevant impacts? Sexual violence or sexual abuse cases are not individual cases as such. They cannot be resolved overnight by setting up support centres or improving the environment. The purpose of 4366 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 introducing support centres or one-stop services is merely for administrative convenience and assisting victims in walking out of the shadow of sexual assault in the rest of their lives or the long periods that follow.

Second, the statistics of the Government or mainstream society are quite perplexing. Speaking of the relationships between the perpetrators and victims of sexual assault or sexual abuse, for example, statistics for the period from January to September 2018 showed that the perpetrators were mostly "strangers", accounting for some 64% of the total; the rate of "parents" was relatively low and merely stood at 0.8%, and the rates of "other family members or partners" and "friends" were relatively high, accounting for 10% and 12% respectively. But we cannot find the category of "spouse" in the classification of the relationships between the perpetrators and victims of sexual assault.

Members may wonder why I say so. Why do I think that the community has underestimated the number of sexual assault cases involving a spousal relationship all along? Actually, marital rape or sexual assault incidents involving a spousal relationship have not been considered to be a problem, unlawful or immoral by the Hong Kong community all along. People will wonder, "What is wrong with sexual intercourse with one's spouse without the spouse's consent?" This explains why we cannot find this category in the statistics and also why the relevant cases are classified under the category of "others". I must say this is already conceptually erroneous. How did this misconception come into being in the very first place? Fundamentally, we must admit that while Hong Kong claims to be a liberal, open and modern society, it is actually very conservative. Sex is a taboo on public occasions. But anything related to it can be done behind closed doors. This is the reality in Hong Kong society.

Besides, there is also a social perception. In our prolonged discussion just now, Dr Elizabeth QUAT's speech, for example, centred on how a female victim had been sexually assaulted and how we could help her. Actually, the measures we are now discussing, including improving the environment, formulating administrative measures or streamlining the administrative procedures, are not merely aimed to assist females. Statistics on the number of sexual assault victims since 2018 show that female victims account for 96.7% of the total, whereas the rate of male victims stands at 3.3%. Is the low rate of male victims due to the rarity or uncommonness of sexual assaults on males?

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Just now, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen raised a viewpoint, saying that in some cases, a male who had been sexually assaulted was actually unaware of the sexual assault. One example is touching a male's buttocks or chest. Some people may have the bad habit of pinching their friends in the chest as a greeting gesture. In a masculine society or the Hong Kong community, this is not regarded as a kind of sexual assault. But Members can consider one scenario based on the same standard or yardstick: Will any one of you perform the signature move of Stephen CHOW when greeting your female friend? So, how did this perception come into being in the very first place? The reason is that we have regarded sex or sexual assault as a taboo all along, and we are not clear about where the line is drawn. Actually, an act which causes discomfort and disgust to a person is already an act of sexual assault. But many people are not aware of this.

Dr Pierre CHAN's proposals today on improving the environment and setting up one-stop centres in public hospitals for dealing with sexual assault victims actually stress the need for streamlining the environment and the administrative procedures under one principle which have been discussed by various Members, the principle of minimizing the necessity for victims to recount how they have been sexually assaulted under various circumstances and in turn avoiding secondary victimization on their part (The buzzer sounded) …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG, please stop speaking.

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): I so submit.

MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): President, many thanks to Dr Pierre CHAN for moving the motion on "Requesting the Government to set up crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals" and also the several Members for their amendments to the motion.

I received a letter from Dr Pierre CHAN. It states that at present, only the Prince of Wales Hospital ("PWH") has designated a room for the provision of one-stop support services to sexual violence victims on a 24-hour basis. As far as my understanding goes, the relevant services at PWH are provided by the Sexual Violence Crisis Centre ("the RainLily"). Actually, since its 4368 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 establishment in 2000, the RainLily has been relocated from Kwong Wah Hospital to the United Christian Hospital and then to PWH. I have also heard of its possible relocation from PWH in the future.

Why should the Government entrust these crucial and important services to a community organization? In his keynote speech just now, Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong continued to sound as if the service mode of social workers taking charge of case handling and follow-up throughout the process were already the one-stop services proposed in the motion. Actually, there is a key distinction between the two in authenticity. The reason is that genuine one-stop services should be victim-oriented. We only hope that they can complete all the procedures at one place. It can be a designated place in police stations―this is the case with Australia―or hospitals, just as Dr Pierre CHAN has proposed. The people involved, such as social workers, forensic pathologists and police officers, only need to go to the same place to assist the victim in expeditiously completing all the outstanding matters, including physical examination and the taking of statements. Therefore, I hope that when the Secretary gives a further reply later on, he can stop saying that the Government has done its job all along and dismissing Dr Pierre CHAN's proposals as a duplicate of its existing efforts. The fact is that the Government has not undertaken the relevant work.

Besides, the Secretary also said that at present, 17 hospitals were equipped with a room for victims' use. But to the RainLily's understanding, some of the so-called "designated rooms" in the 17 hospitals are actually storerooms, some are doctors' rest rooms, and some are consultation rooms for doctors meeting with patients' families. Generally speaking, they will be in use every one or two hours, and they are totally different from the designated rooms for victims of the specified cases as requested by the motion.

The World Health Organization ("WHO") has already laid down a clear standard in its Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence. The standard is that the relevant premises must be equipped with at least two rooms and one washroom, so as to prevent the victim from being seen by others entering the room, and to enable her to clean up her body by taking a shower after forensic examination. This is an international standard laid down by WHO.

Speaking of our neighbouring regions such as Taipei, while its local population is smaller than that of Hong Kong, six hospitals in the entire city have provided the one-stop services I mentioned a moment ago. Malaysia also claims that one-stop services are provided at every government hospital in the country. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4369

In the case of Australia I talked about just now, an independent house is set up adjacent to police stations to offer one-stop services to victims. An international standard has already been formulated, and the cities or countries near Hong Kong have likewise put in place their own practices.

I also wish to point out that this motion should not rest solely with the Labour and Welfare Bureau. Just now, a Member said that everything must count on Secretary Dr LAW, and he cherished high expectations of him. In fact, according to some RainLily staff members, the greatest difficulty in the process lies with the Security Bureau and the Police at present. They say so because the RainLily is located in PWH, and if a case happens on Hong Kong Island, the Hong Kong Island Police―perhaps due to heavy workload or for some inexplicable reasons―may not be so willing to deploy a team of officers who have to travel all the way to PWH for taking a statement from the victim. As a result, they are unable to offer one-stop services. Even the RainLily is unable to provide genuine one-stop services.

In this connection, the first point I am driving at is that the Security Bureau should squarely address this problem and refrain from thinking that the general masses, especially victims of rape cases, should revolve around the Police. And second, I believe the Hospital Authority ("HA") should also assume the responsibility because the designated rooms which Dr Pierre CHAN proposes to set up are inside hospitals. If the "designated rooms" as they call it are actually storerooms or rooms with unrestricted access, then HA should tell the public that they may need to commit huge resources if they are to assume the responsibility of providing such rooms.

I notice that some Members have expressed concern about the ethnic minority. Ethnic minority victims of sexual violence are like sexual minority victims of sexual violence mentioned by Mr CHAN Chi-chuen just now, and they have faced even more difficulties. In particular, various government departments have shirked their responsibility of providing translation services and merely adhered to their own portfolios. The support services for ethnic minority victims of sexual violence are obviously inadequate.

I so submit.

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MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): I support Dr Pierre CHAN's original motion on urging the Government to set up a crisis support centre in every public hospital in the New Territories, Hong Kong Island and Kowloon to provide one-stop and comprehensive services to sexual violence victims and abused children on a 24-hour basis. The purpose of setting up one-stop crisis support centres is to enable victims to receive treatment and follow-up services and conduct the necessary procedures in one place, including medical treatment, forensic examination, reporting the case to the Police, giving statements, and receiving social work support and counseling services.

The provision of one-stop and comprehensive services to sexual violence victims aims to spare them the need of going to various places and departments (including hospitals and police stations) after the incident to meet with people such as forensic pathologists, and to avoid causing frustration and harm to them on such various occasions due to the need of recounting the incident to different people.

President, our systems must show care for sexual violence victims and prevent support services and investigations from causing physical and mental fatigue to them instead and adding to their already heavy mental burden. A friendly support system can enable victims to receive timely and appropriate support and encourage them to make a report.

Speaking of Dr CHAN's proposals, the World Health Organization ("WHO") actually already expressed concern about this issue 15 years ago (that is in 2003). A WHO report entitled "Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence" points out that many countries or regions merely provide either medical or legal services for sexual violence victims. According to WHO's guidelines, this is inefficient and unnecessary, and will impose a burden on sexual violence victims.

President, at present, various places such as the United States, Australia, Britain and Taiwan have already set up one-stop crisis centres. In Britain, for example, such crisis centres are called "Sexual Assault Referral Centre". And, Britain also enacted the Health and Social Care Act in 2013 to confer the duty of coordinating the management and operation of its crisis centres on a single organization or department called the National Health Service in Britain, in contrary to Hong Kong where the duty of crisis handling is scattered among three or four Policy Bureaux. In 2014, Britain already set up around 48 crisis centres within its territory.

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Let us look at Hong Kong in comparison. It can be said that Hong Kong's medical services, social work services and enforcement officers are very advanced, professional and progressive in the Asian region. I hope the Government can take full account of Dr CHAN's views, various Members' amendments, and also the concerns raised by WHO about this matter 15 years ago, so as to improve the medical, legal and psychological support for sexual violence victims.

As for other Members' amendments, Mr SHIU Ka-chun is not in the Chamber now. But Mr IP Kin-yuen already elaborated on Mr SHIU Ka-chun's amendment just now. I notice that the amendments of Ms Alice MAK and Mr SHIU Ka-chun both request the Police to set up a special investigative team dedicated to handling cases involving sexual violence and child abuse and to improve its internal work procedures, so as to reduce the heavy pressure on victims or their secondary or even multiple victimization due to their need to recount the incident to the Police. I will support the amendments concerned.

I will also support Dr Fernando CHEUNG's amendment, particularly its proposal on enhancing professional support in child abuse cases for the expeditious provision of the necessary support services and the mitigation of the psychological trauma sustained by abused children. The provision of appropriate support for abused children is a due responsibility that the Government must assume for protecting children's rights. In Hong Kong with an extremely low birth rate―the birth rate in Hong Kong merely stands at around 1% and is lower than the levels of many advanced countries and regions in the world―ensuring the healthy development of each child is definitely an unavoidable responsibility that our society must assume for the next generation. We must step up the protection of our children.

Just now, various Members talked about sexual violence victims or "#MeToo" cases as they are so called. President, I hope the community can realize that not only females are involved in incidents of sexual violence or indecent assault in society nowadays. Even males and children can possibly be sexually harassed or abused by various people (including close family members, relatives, friends and even teachers). We should not drop our guard and stand aloof from such incidents.

President, I so submit.

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MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): Secretary Dr LAW and Assistant Director Ms PANG, as we know each other for many years, I really want to tell you that if you are to deal with what Dr Pierre CHAN is asking for, it is certainly something not limited to a Policy Bureau or a department. The Food and Health Bureau and the Hospital Authority also have to assume a major share of the responsibility. I am not sure if they can coordinate the relevant policy proposal by setting up a one-stop crisis support centre to handle sexual violence or child abuse cases.

I wish to make a brief response to the question put forward to the Secretary and I hope the Secretary will respond to that in his reply. What is the Government's understanding about the "one-stop" notion? Are they "location-oriented" or "case-oriented" services? Why should I ask this question? On the one hand, it is because of the Secretary's reply to Dr Pierre CHAN's question. On the other hand, the Administration's reply to a question raised in the Legislative Council meeting on 27 June, the Security Bureau replied Dr CHAN that "the 'one-stop' services emphasis not only on the location of provision of services to victims, but also offers the victims with necessary services simultaneously and in a synchronised manner as far as possible, including medical care, forensic examinations, statement-taking, other services and support from a social worker, etc, with a view to reducing repeated description of traumatic experience by the victim … Even if the victim accepts one of the services designated by him/her, it is also in line with the spirit of 'one-stop' services.".

Judging from the Bureau's reply and the speech delivered by the Secretary, I understand that the Government's "one-stop" notion is more service-based than location-based. Nevertheless, today's motion puts emphasis on a one-stop crisis support centre, which means that the authorities should designate a venue for the victim to report his/her case to the Police, to receive injury assessment, treatment or even counselling service, with a view to shortening the procedure and saving unnecessary waiting time. The principle is to give priority to the needs of the victims. Such services should be provided in a proactive manner instead of letting the victim to hop around different locations.

I have not dealt with complaints from sexual violence victims. I mean they have never approached me and asked for my assistance. However, I have handled a child abuse case which took place during the summer time a few months ago. I had to accompany a child and his grandmother to take statement LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4373 at Queen Mary Hospital. I stayed with them for almost one day, starting from 2:00 pm to 9:00 pm in the evening. My experience in dealing with the case can bring to light many questions in relation to today's motion. First, a social worker had to take the child away from the family because the authorities suspected that he had been abused by his mother and therefore they required the child to take statement at the hospital. As soon as the child was taken to the Accident and Emergency Department ("AED") for medical examination, the curtain was let down and the child was asked to give an account of the incident. Then the Police arrived and the child was requested to take another statement again. Afterwards, he had to give an account of the incident upon the arrival of the doctor. He had to repeat that for at least three times. He had to undergo the same traumatic experience repeatedly. If the three parties could arrive at the same time, perhaps the child or his grandmother only needed to give an account of the incident once. Can this be simplified? Moreover, the poor little child wanted to stay at his grandmother's place, but he was ordered to stay at the hospital to receive injury assessment, and therefore he could not go home. Eventually the authorities found that it was not an abuse case; instead, the child was only trying to prevent his mother from committing suicide.

I am deeply impressed by this case because the child has done nothing wrong at all. The institutional flaw has forced him to be admitted to hospital and to give an account of the incident repeatedly. And what about sexual violence victims? I find this institution flaw very serious. If Members are interest in that, I can give a more detail account of that incident. It was really a big institutional flaw.

Friends from RainLily tell me that some of the designated rooms in these 17 hospitals are store rooms. Some are the resting rooms for doctors, and people would get in and out of those rooms at any time. How can they become a one-stop crisis support centre? We are asking for a designated room for relevant personnel to handle child abuse and sexual violence cases.

I wish to spend some time to speak on the issue of sexual violence, as Members should understand child abuse issue quite well. Over the past 17 years, RainLily's figures showed that of 3 500 sexual violence victims, more than 2 000 were victims of rape cases. Nevertheless, if we look at the police figures over the past two years, only 206 rape cases were registered. Obviously, the official figures were not reflecting the actual situation.

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Cases received by RainLily also reflect that the Government has laid down too many restrictions in its procedures. For example, rape victims must go to the hospital and receive post-contraception treatment and tests on sexually transmitted diseases. However, the existing health care and legal procedures are completed fragmented. In other words, should the victim report the case to the Police first or seek injury assessment at the hospital first after an incident has taken place? They may have to go to these two places at the same time. This will place a big burden on them. They have to hop around different locations just because of the administrative procedures. Sometimes the system may have laid down certain foolish requirements. For example, a victim may be required by the Police to report his or her case to the police posts at hospitals first and then return to a police station to give the official statement after obtaining a memo from the police post at the hospital. In some other cases, the victim is required to receive medical examinations in a cross-district hospital. All of these procedures will make the case more complicated.

In addition, I hope the Secretary will consider giving me a reply regarding certain remarks. The founder of RainLily, Dr BEH Swan Lip, has mentioned that besides giving the victim the necessary treatment at AED, the doctor there may also collect forensic evidence. But why should such evidence be collected by a forensic pathologist under the existing system? Why can the statement not be taken at a one-stop centre where the oral statement of the victim is taken by the Police and the forensic evidence is collected, and at the same time the doctor can help assess the injury or conduct treatment while social workers conduct their counselling at the same place? This arrangement will help us solve all the problems. If we are not going to address these issues, there is no need to talk about the institutional flaws. I hope the Labour and Welfare Bureau, the Social Welfare Department, the Security Bureau and the Food and Health Bureau will jointly deal with issues in this regard.

President, I so submit.

MR TOMMY CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, families a vital component of society. They provide an intimate environment in which physical care, mutual support and emotional security are normally available to foster the development of children into healthy and responsible members of society. However, the numbers of sex violence and child abuse cases in Hong Kong have increased in recent years. The Liberal Party is deeply concerned about the situation. Therefore, we agree with Dr Pierre CHAN's original motion that the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4375

Government should enhance the supporting service to sex violence and child abuse victims as soon as possible, and to set up a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre at designated and suitable places with high privacy protection in all public hospitals. However, the Liberal Party considers that the Government should allocate additional resources to the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") and similar institutions to strengthen the support services as it may not be necessary to allocate additional resources and manpower to the Hospital Authority to engage in similar tasks. The Liberal Party believes that the Government holds the same view because the public officer presents today is not the Secretary for Food and Health, Prof Sophia CHAN, but the Secretary for Labour and Welfare, Dr LAW Chi-kwong.

At present, victims of family violence, sexual violence or child abuse may go to hospital by themselves. Various parties such as the Police, social workers or other medical practitioners may refer them to the hospital. The relevant treatments and follow-up actions and holistic care will be provided to violence victims in accordance with the multi-disciplinary guidelines and approach developed by the Committee on Child Abuse and Working Group on Combating Violence.

As far as sexual violence is concerned, under the one-stop service model, no matter whether the victims are sent to hospital after they have made a report to the Police, or they have made the report to the Police while they are receiving treatments at the Accident and Emergency Department of a public hospital, they may choose to give the statement to the Police and receive forensic examinations at the same hospital if the situation permits. Moreover, with the consent of the victims, the Police may refer them to receive the counselling and supporting services from SWD and relevant non-governmental organizations. With regards to child abuse cases, under the guidelines of SWD, if health care workers suspect that the child has been abused, the case coordinator in the hospital will be notified and the case will be referred to SWD. According to the severity of the case, the relevant personnel may decide if the case should be reported to the Police. Social workers, health care workers, the Police and schools will convene a multi-disciplinary meeting to determine if the case is a confirmed child abuse case.

In fact, the model of the existing multi-disciplinary service which aims at sex violence and child abuse is not different from a one-stop service centre as the hospital, the Police, SWD and other stakeholders will provide their follow-up services according to the situation and each part is interconnected with another. 4376 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Besides, the current model has been proven effective. The Liberal Party is worried that if an additional 24-hour one-stop centre is set up at public hospitals, the natures of the two will overlap with each other. A chaotic situation with insufficient follow-up actions may be caused due to the ambiguous division of responsibilities between the two. It will also hamper the proper use of resources and the duplication is a waste of resources.

In view of that, the Liberal Party recommends that the Government should allocate additional resources to SWD or other institutions which have already been providing services in this regard so that they can strengthen their support and follow-up services. At present, the Family and Child Protective Services Units under SWD are responsible for cases of child abuse and spouse/cohabitant battering. Under the units there are 168 social workers and 11 officers who are deployed in 11 district offices all over Hong Kong. As the units need to take care of a wide range of scope of duties and the case load is very heavy, their social workers are handling the cases with low efficiency and the quality of service may also be affected. For that reason, additional resources must be allocated to SWD as soon as possible. This will not only help SWD enhance the supporting services but also allow the department to implement more comprehensive education and precautionary measures, thereby improving the sexual violence and child abuse from the source.

The effectiveness of a crisis management and handling mechanism relies on the cooperation among various parties and every party is indispensable. The Liberal Party hopes that through the pooled efforts of all parties concerned, the problems of individuals and family members can be dealt with, and the Family and Child Protective Services Units can provide necessary services to the person in need if their family cannot do so, with a view to achieving the service objectives of the Family and Child Protective Services Units.

President, I so submit.

MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): I speak in support of Dr Pierre CHAN's original motion, and the amendments proposed by Mr SHIU Ka-chun, Dr Fernando CHEUNG and Ms Alice MAK on requesting the Government to set up crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals, and to allocate additional resources to the Hospital Authority for the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4377 purpose of setting up a crisis support centre in public hospitals respectively in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon to provide sexual violence victims and abused children with 24-hour one-stop services.

President, according to the statistics, one in seven women living in Hong Kong has been victimized by sexual violence, but only about 10% of these victims are willing to report their cases to the Police. Figures of the Social Welfare Department show that between 2015 and 2017, 2 740 reported child abuse cases were received. I will explain why a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre should be set up for sexual violence and child abuse victims from the perspectives of protecting the privacy of the victims, standardizing the reporting procedures, shortening the time for reporting the incident and enhancing the training of frontline workers.

First, a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre allows a victim to receive appropriate services at a suitable, discrete and comfortable location with high privacy protection. At present, the first thing a sexually abused victim should do is to seek medical attention in a hospital, to go through body check, to get the blood test and to receive post-contraception treatment. However, the Accident and Emergency Department ("AED") of all public hospitals are so crowded that they are in fact "overcrowded". Ninety per cent of all AEDs cannot spare a designated room for the relevant procedures. Health care workers can only use a curtain to separate the victim from other hospital users, which cannot ensure auditory and visual privacy, as people may get in and out of that place at any time. Sometimes, the victims are even urged to leave by health care workers.

What we are more concerned about is that if the media find that a sexual violence case has taken place, they will try hard to become the first to interview the person of interest, that is, the victim. For that reason, the present location for conducting the procedures cannot protect the privacy of the victim. Quite the contrary, it will embarrass and terrify the victim, making them want to get out of the hospital at once and feel that they no longer want to ask for help. Therefore, I suggest that the location of a one-stop crisis support centre should not be disclosed publicly. Only the Police, health care and social workers should be informed of the location. Such arrangement can protect female victims from external disturbance.

According to the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by the World Health Organization, a crisis support centre with 24-hour one-stop services should be designed as a discrete suite with high privacy 4378 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 protection, which is equipped with a room for counselling services, giving statements, forensic examination, a shower and a toilet. Besides, a one-stop crisis support centre should allow a victim to receive medical attentions and services at the same location within 72 hours, as this will help to shorten the time the victim needs to report the case to the Police as well as to receive medical treatments.

At present, if a victim wants to seek help, they should first go to a police station and report the incident to the Police and give their statement at a report room. And then their case will be referred to a dedicated team of the relevant police district for follow-up actions. They have to give an account of the incident to the team again. After the victim has given the statement again, they will be arranged to see the forensic pathologist for forensic examinations. They have to give an account of the incident again. President, if the incident takes place within 72 hours, the victim will be arranged to receive post-contraception treatment and medical follow-up in the hospital. They have to give an account of the ordeal again and again. It is a complicated and long torment.

RainLily, the sexual violence victim support group, has compiled some statistics concerning how many times victims need to give the detail account of their ordeals to the relevant workers. Some have to repeat the story five times, others may have to repeat six or even seven times. We all know that after a woman has been subject to sexual violence, she would feel extremely tired, physically, emotionally and psychologically. For these victims, requiring them to hop around different departments and repeat their unfortunate experience over and over again in an unfamiliar environment is virtually a secondary trauma. We have even seen that since the Police and hospital have not issued a set of standardized protocols, guidelines and procedures for frontline workers to follow, the victims feel that they do not know what to do. For this reason, the Government should draw reference from the current practice of Taiwan by sending the experts of various departments to the crisis centre to listen to the recounting of the victim, provide the medical examination, take the statement and provide psychological counselling service to the victim. This will greatly minimize the frequencies for the victim to get in contact with the expert team and recounting the ordeal. It can also prevent the victim from being traumatized for the second time when repeating the embarrassing details of the assault again and again.

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President, what is more important is that in order to keep the service standard level up to that of the one-stop crisis support centre and to enhance the sensitivity and skills of frontline workers in handling cases of sexual violence and child abuse cases, including police officers and health care workers, the Government should strengthen their professional training. At present, as these experts lack the sensitivity and skills in handling violence cases, they will frequently neglect the emotional needs of the victims. Some would even put the blame on the victims. There is also confusion in society under which victims of sexual violence are stereotyped. Some people consider that the victims should also be held responsible for being sexually assaulted. Some police officers have even asked the victims to think twice before deciding whether they would like to go on reporting the case to the Police. All these will make the victims feel that they have done something wrong and as a result, they dare not go on with the complaint.

According to the figures provided by RainLily, of all the sexual violence cases dropped, about one third of them were dropped voluntarily by the victims. For that reason, the Government should strengthen the training of relevant workers in order to enhance their sensitivity and boost the desire of the victims to seek help. The figures of some one-stop crisis service centres overseas show that one-stop crisis service can help boost the sex crime reporting rate.

Therefore, I urge the Government to study these issues and consider prudently the implementation of these measures that have been dragging on for many years, so as to enable sexual violence and child abuse victims to get adequate support and assistance. With regards to this motion (The buzzer sounded) …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, please stop speaking.

MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): … I support the original motion and all the three amendments.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please stop speaking.

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MR KWONG CHUN-YU (in Cantonese): First of all, many thanks to Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion. The Democratic Party also supports the amendments proposed by Ms Alice MAK, Mr SHIU Ka-chun and Dr Fernando CHEUNG, in addition to the original motion.

During my tenure as a Member of the Legislative Council in the past two years, our office alone has dealt with more than 10 cases related to sexual violence and abuse. While some cases have come to light, some have not. Members may still remember that we offered assistance in a case in a secondary school. The case revealed that it is very difficult for the victim to speak out about the experience. When first telling us about it, she mentioned that she had not even informed her family.

Let us imagine that scenario. It was exactly our office in Room 906 upstairs where she came to us for help. After speaking out about the incident, she still did not understand what she had done wrong and why she had been subjected to such abuse. That said, actually it was a very challenging situation for her because initially she had no idea at all how to handle the matter and seek help. We tried to help her but, in fact, it was essential under such circumstances to obtain appropriate and timely assistance at the moment of the incident in order to properly handle the relevant evidence and procedures. Therefore, one of the most important points of this motion today lies in the front line. Had a crisis support centre ("CSC") helped her immediately right at the beginning, she would have known how to pull through, so she did not need to repress her grievances, and that there is justice in Hong Kong, so she can speak out and seek help. However, at the same time, we need to be aware not to make the victim keep recounting the incident, nor to let her be hurt the second or third time.

Do Members know how many departments the victim has to visit in the event of such an incident? Hospitals, police stations, forensic institutions … Let us imagine, if she really wants to seek prosecution, she has to make statements to uniformed police and CID. If the case involves a rape, it will be referred to a crime squad. Within 72 hours of the crime, there is also the possibility that the case is referred to a forensic institution for the rather laborious procedures of medical examination, securing evidence and recounting the incident. If the victim has to keep recounting the incident, she may suffer a mental breakdown, having no idea how many times more she has to recount it, or suspecting that others do not believe her.

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Nothing struck me more than the behaviour of one of the help-seekers who was sexually abused by someone of the older generation. While making a statement at the police station, she was requested to change room for unknown reason, probably due to a shortage of rooms. On the way to another room, the police officer beside her asked her: "Little girl, are you doing this just for fun?" Even now, she still remembers this question. "Was I doing this just for fun? I bravely came forward to testify against someone, and you asked me if I was doing this just for fun?" I am not blaming the police officer now, but I wish to say that it is really necessary for any personnel who will deal with victims of sexual abuse in Hong Kong to be better equipped with knowledge and coping skills, because the victims are very vulnerable.

The topic before us today is actually very simple: can we set up a 24-hour CSC in public hospitals respectively in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories? To say the least, it should be able to shorten the time it takes for the victim to seek help. That's it. It is such a modest and humble aspiration. You might ask if there are so many victims, given that the past figures were not so high, but among the 10 cases I just mentioned that were received in my office on the ninth floor alone, I am not sure how many can actually go to court. Why? It is because the victims often cop out halfway. Why do they cop out? It is because the stress is very high. "Forget it, there is no justice in the world", one of the victims said to me. We asked her to try, but we could not force her.

Do Members have the same impression with the Bridge of Rehabilitation Company incident in 2016, where a superintendent was suspected of sexually assaulting a mentally incapacitated resident, and it was not that a subsequent prosecution against him was impossible, but that the victim was unable to appear in court because her mental condition did not allow her to do so. On the contrary, the superintendent even claimed recovery of the legal costs from the Department of Justice afterwards, leading to the revelation of the incident, which triggered a joint petition by 100 000 Hong Kong people. Fast forward to today, why do we need to discuss this subject in the Chamber? It is because the point at issue is: in the event that such an unfortunate incident really happens, should we just let it be and then call it a day, leaving the victim alone to adjust and adapt to the situation, or should we encourage her to seek help? At least, we should provide stronger protection and immediate support, and CSCs are exactly doing these jobs.

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Let us have a look at the figures. According to the data on RainLily's services over the past 17 years, 44% of the 2 318 cases saw the victim opting not to report to police. Among the remaining 56% of cases, in which the incident was reported, 712 cases ended up in termination of investigation, 220 among them due to the victim's own choice. If we had provided them with appropriate support right at the beginning and told them not to be afraid because we have a system and CSCs, and there is justice in Hong Kong, would they be willing to take one more step? Would there be more appropriate and correct procedures to testify against those who abused them? At least, there would not have been one more victim. I am not kidding. We all know what the latest development of the Bridge of Rehabilitation Company incident is. We have failed to prosecute the superintendent in this case, and it turns out that he was involved in another case when he was working in a primary school 30 years ago. The offence keeps happening, and we keep turning a blind eye. Should we allow help-seeking cases to grow until a level at which we cannot shy away from dealing with them, or should we take a precautionary approach?

Honourable Members, I feel more deeply because the victims in many cases are willing to tell us about their experiences, which is very difficult to do, and in most cases the abusers are outrageously not strangers at all. Some of them might do something nefarious making use of their identity as a teacher, while teaching religion at school, or in the disguise of providing emotional support. I listened to each and every case with my own ears, but not every one of them can come to light. When the victims finally said to me: "Mr KWONG, I give up", I felt like I do not worth my salt. Why couldn't I have intervened earlier so that they had at least some evidence and procedures properly handled, rather than leaving one case after another unanswered pending redress of grievances. Hopefully, through our debate today, we will bring a brighter light of hope to the victims of sexual abuse and sexual violence (The buzzer sounded) …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr KWONG, please stop speaking.

MR KWONG CHUN-YU (in Cantonese): I so submit.

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MS YUNG HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): President, I had come across many sexual violence and child abuse cases when I was a practising barrister. It has been noted that victims of such cases were often extremely helpless and emotionally disturbed. They had no idea about where they should go to seek assistance after the incident and whether they should make a report to the Police. It was because they did not know whether they could withstand the immense psychological and physical pressure they were going to face. They might be required to run around among different places for statement taking at various police stations, medical treatment in hospitals, examinations by forensic pathologists, etc. During statement taking or court proceedings, they would also be repeatedly asked to recount the details of the incident, which would be greatly embarrassing to them. They had to face such challenges with immense courage and a great deal of support.

Support services currently offered by the Government to sexual violence victims and their family are indeed very limited. Although some community organizations, including RainLily and CEASE Crisis Centre under the Tung Wah Group of Hospitals, are now rendering one-stop support services to sexual violence victims, the services provided are subject to certain restrictions due to limited resources and manpower. Moreover, not enough software and hardware support is available in the relevant government departments for handling sexual violence and child abuse cases. Due protection is therefore not accorded to the privacy of victims. No standardized procedures and guidelines for handling such cases are in place, either.

I therefore fully support the motion moved by Dr Pierre CHAN today, which urges the Government to set up, in accordance with the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by the World Health Organization ("WHO"), a one-stop crisis support centre in three public hospitals respectively on Hong Kong Island, in Kowloon and in the New Territories to provide sexual violence victims with 24-hour one-stop services. The Government is also urged to establish a standardized mechanism and lay down procedural guidelines for handling such cases by relevant government departments and hospitals.

As clearly stipulated in the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by WHO, the offering of basic medical support to victims is of paramount importance. These medical and legal services should be provided in hospitals and clinics because having all relevant procedures 4384 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 undertaken in the same place is the best mode of service delivery. In other words, after a report has been made to the Police, victims should be allowed to complete all the necessary procedures, including medical treatment, forensic examinations and statement taking, in the same place

Besides, I suggest that the Government should also consider providing lawyer service in these one-stop support centres so that in every process of following up such cases, victims can always be provided with appropriate legal support when necessary to ensure fuller protection of their rights and interests. To my knowledge, lawyer service is not available now in the one-stop support centre run by RainLily to provide professional legal advice to victims. In saying so, I do not mean that no lawyer is present in the centre the whole day, but as lawyers are put on call only, lawyer service is not readily available most of the time to assist the victims. Hence it often happens that during statement taking by police officers, no lawyers are accompanying the victims to offer them legal advice. Nor is lawyer service available when they have to go through lengthy judicial proceedings subsequently. There is a very practical need to provide lawyer service, and my proposal is therefore worth considering by the Government.

President, with the #MeToo Campaign sweeping through the entire world in recent years, many women who have previously been sexually abused are now willing to come forward and face their unpleasant experiences in the past bravely. By doing so, they wish to do justice to themselves on the one hand, and let offenders receive the penalty they deserve on the other to avoid the recurrence of similar cases as far as possible. They are indeed very brave and deserve our support, and I wish to pay my compliment to them.

According to the information provided by RainLily, the first organization in Hong Kong dedicated to providing 24-hour one-stop crisis support services to sexually abused women aged 14 or above, it has handled a total of 3 501 assistance-seeking cases involving sexual violence during the past 17 years since its establishment in late 2000, and a total of 2 232 (60%) cases among them were rape cases. However, only about 55% of the victims of such cases were willing to make a report to the Police, and among such reported cases, the investigation into 712 cases was eventually terminated, including 220 cases in which the investigation was terminated by the victims themselves. These figures are indeed alarming.

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In my opinion, the absence of a one-stop crisis support service centre in Hong Kong is a key factor contributing to the reluctance of sexual violence victims to make a report to the Police, or their decision to delay the making of such a report. One-stop crisis support centres have already been set up for sexual violence victims in overseas places like the United Kingdom, Taiwan and Malaysia. Victims of such cases in the United Kingdom may seek one-stop services, including medical examinations, advice on contraception and forensic examinations, from about 45 support centres, which are called Sexual Assault Referral Centres, in the whole country. Trained police officers will explain to victims the full procedures for handling their case.

Taiwan has also introduced one-stop services for sexual violence victims in 2001, after which the reporting rate of sexual violence cases has started to increase gradually and reached the level of 70% in 2002 to 2012. As for Malaysia, after the setting up of a one-stop crisis support service centre in 1996 in all public hospitals in the whole country, the reporting rate of rape cases has also increased significantly, reflecting that the provision of one-stop services is a direct help to victims.

The Hong Kong Government has not established a standardized mechanism so far for handling assistance-seeking cases concerning sexual violence victims. What is the problem with this? As different practices are adopted by the Police, the Social Welfare Department and in hospitals, and given the limited space available in the Accident and Emergency Department of public hospitals, it is often not feasible to provide sufficient space for health care personnel and police officers to question victims in a place with high privacy protection, thus making it inevitable for victims to run around among different places. This is the reason why a proposal is put forward in the motion for designating a place with high privacy protection in three public hospitals to protect the privacy, rights and interests of victims and ensure respect for them.

With these remarks, President, I support the original motion and its amendments.

MR STEVEN HO (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I would like to thank Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion since we are very concerned about social welfare issues, in particular the problems of sexual violence and child abuse. Yet, I hope Dr Pierre CHAN would not mind as I think the problem of 4386 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 domestic violence should be included in the contents of the motion. It is because the issue of violence covers sexual violence, child abuse and domestic violence as well. About 10 years ago, I saw a movie entitled Night and Fog, with Simon YAM as the leading actor and ZHANG Jingchu as the leading actress. The story is about the domestic violence problem of a family in which the female victim was made to take refuge in a refuge centre for women after seeking assistance from a District Council ("DC") member, the Police and the Social Welfare Department ("SWD"). Sadly, however, she and her two daughters were all killed by her husband at last where the story ends in tragedy.

People may think it is just the storyline of a movie, but cases like this did happen in reality. For example, a similar case took place in Tin Ching Estate in August 2017. It was fortunate that the female victims in the case survived. When going through the records of such a case, I find one thing similar to the story of Night and Fog. The woman concerned had also sought help from SWD, and I believe she had also been to the hospital and even approached the Police for help. Nevertheless, she finally moved into a refuge centre. At 7:00 am the next day, the woman went back home together with her two daughters to get some clothing. She had a dispute with her husband inside the premises and got hit on her head with an axe in the end. This is a case which has taken place in reality.

A number of Members have mentioned just now matters concerning statement taking, provision of support, facilities to be installed in support centres, whether legal advice service from lawyers should be provided, etc. I do agree that such matters need to be dealt with, but this case has prompted me to reflect: What on earth is wrong with the existing system? So I went through various cases in an attempt to gain an understanding of the truth of each case although I do not belong to the social welfare sector. First, victims in general move into refuge centres in haste and will inevitably need to go home to get some clothing. The victims seeking shelter in the refuge centres implies that their going back home will involve risks. But then, why are they still allowed to return home unaccompanied in the following day even though they are known to be in danger? Hence, I would like to ask SWD or the Labour and Welfare Bureau to examine whether there is room for improvement regarding the existing system. There ought to be someone such as a police officer to accompany and protect the victim even if she must go home to pack up certain items. Why was there no one to accompany the victim of this case?

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I am not going to discuss individual cases, but the victims of various cases have pointed out one thing, that is, they chose to seek shelter in the refuge centres because they did not want to give up their families since family is of great importance to Chinese. Besides, they said the authorities did not specify the locations of the refuge centres. They just wondered if they should go to Sheung Shui, the Hong Kong Island or Sai Kung to seek help. Outsiders might think that the authorities' act of not specifying the exact locations of the refuge centres aims to ensure the safety of the victim concerned for fear that she may be ambushed by her husband.

Second, even if the victim has decided to take refuge in the refuge centre, she will only be provided with a telephone number for contacting the officer concerned. Moreover, the victim has to get to the designated location to meet the person responsible for receiving her. Actually, the victim herself cannot go to work and her children cannot go to school once they have moved into the refuge centre. From the victim's point of view, she would rather go home having regard that she has to take great trouble while foregoing the previous way of life only for the purpose of seeking a day's shelter in the refuge centre. Although the Police will provide transport service to the victim, neither SWD nor the doctors will force the victim to stay in the refuge centre due to the concern of human rights. They will only persuade her not to go out. Feeling confused at that particular moment when things do not seem to go right, the victim will ponder whether she should go home or take refuge in the refuge centre. The more time available for pondering, the more likely that she changes her mind. However, it may take as long as five to seven hours commuting from the police station to the hospital where the victim may have to wait from morning till night. In the course of waiting, the victim may indeed change her mind and choose to go home instead of heading for the refuge centre. This may end up in a tragedy as a result. This case is quite extreme and no one ever asks how the woman victim of the case is doing today because, unlike the victims in the movie Night and Fog who eventually died, she and her two daughters have survived. Yet, she leads a miserable life after being hit on the head by her husband with an axe.

As a matter of fact, a lot of such problems have emerged in local society, except that people have yet to resort to harmful weapons, while the victims would rather stay home suffering in silence. It is for this reason that I agree to the proposal of improving relevant services mentioned by numerous Members just now. More importantly, however, I expect the Government to take a more humanistic approach by looking at the problems faced by the victims from their 4388 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 perspectives to make them willing to accept the assistance offered by the Government. Nevertheless, as I have pointed out just now, even though we have done our best, the problems will still remain unresolved if the authorities fail to make proper arrangements to facilitate the victims' needs for transportation to work or school. I hope the Government will give a thought to this and identify the crux of the problem first and then tackle it with the right measures.

Let me reiterate: I do not belong to the social welfare sector and have never experienced any abuse of this sort. Thus, I do not have a deep understanding of the problems faced by the various victims or their worries. And so, I hope the Government will meticulously examine their worries and consider adopting the various initiatives proposed by Members today to provide them with appropriate support based on their needs. I concur with the views brought forth by Members today, but I dare not say if Members' views will help convince the victims to use the relevant services meant for them. And I dare not say if taking statements six or seven times is the right thing to do. This may be necessary under Hong Kong's judicial system in case there are errors in taking the first statement. Meanwhile, the defendant's rights also need to be safeguarded. That is why I have no comment in this respect. In conclusion, I only hope that the victims can feel easy and convenient when using the social welfare services provided by the Government.

With these remarks, I hope that Members will have more concern for the victims' feelings. Thank you, President.

MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, I would first of all like to thank Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this important motion for us to have a debate on the issue here today.

As Mr SHIU Ka-chun cannot attend the meeting today to move his amendment in person, Mr IP Kin-yuen of the Education Functional Constituency has spent some time explaining Mr SHIU's amendment. However, as the representative of the Education Functional Constituency, Mr IP would like to raise some points, especially those on abused children. I will therefore express these views on behalf of Mr IP.

With the launching of #MeToo Campaign in recent years and the occurrence of many incidents, our society has shown more concerns about sexual violence victims and abused children, or even the issue concerning sexually LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4389 abused children. In addition to arousing public concerns over the problems of sexual violence and child abuse, I think different Policy Bureaux and departments within the Government should also step up their efforts and join hands in providing victims with better support.

According to the case statistics maintained by the Social Welfare Department ("SWD"), the numbers of newly reported child abuse cases and sexual violence cases as at September this year were 793 and 720 respectively, representing an average of 88 child abuse cases and 80 sexual violence cases each month. The monthly average number of reported child abuse cases this year is higher than that recorded in 2017, which is 78 cases. This may be attributed to the fact that the occurrence of a spate of child abuse cases in the beginning of this year has aroused public concerns about the problem and enhanced public awareness.

In response to requests from the education and social welfare sectors, the Education Bureau has put in place a reporting mechanism for absentees in kindergartens in the beginning of this year, and this is of course a move welcome by various sectors of the community, especially the education sector. However, as pointed out in some criticisms we made previously, unlike the reporting mechanism for absentees in primary and secondary schools, personal support and intervention services are not provided under the reporting mechanism put in place for absentees in kindergartens. Even though a report has been made, the Education Bureau will only contact the school management to enquire about the details of the case concerned. Having regard to the circumstances of individual student and family, the Education Bureau would remind the school management to handle the case in accordance with the circular issued by the Education Bureau and the guidelines published by SWD. We should bear in mind that the guidelines published by SWD cover 354 pages, and kindergarten teachers have never been given a chance to peruse the guidelines, not even when they were under training. How can they spare some time in their daily work to read through and understand the contents of the guidelines, and get to know how they should handle the situation when something does happen?

Therefore, we hope that the Government would revise the guidelines and draw up a simple and user-friendly code of practice for frontline personnel in different professional aspects respectively. For example, consideration can be given to providing a checklist for initial assessment, a flow chart and information on the operating procedures, as well as organizing regular seminar series or 4390 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 training programmes for frontline personnel in various professional sectors. It may not be feasible to have the job done by SWD alone, and there is thus the need to coordinate the efforts of relevant departments to further fortify this safety net.

President, despite our criticisms, it is undeniable that the guidelines has been drawn up in great details, and we find one of the principles enshrined therein particularly agreeable. The principle is clearly set out in Chapter 9 of the guidelines and it reads: "To avoid requiring the children to describe the suspected abuse incident(s) repeatedly, the number of investigative/assessment interview on the suspected abuse incident(s) should be kept to a minimum".

In fact, similar treatment and protection should not only be offered to abused children but also to anyone who has been subject to physical and mental abuse with the same severity, especially sexual violence victims as mentioned in the original motion moved by Dr CHAN. We do not agree with the argument that as sexual violence victims are adults, they need not be offered the same level of protection as that provided to abused children by SWD.

I would like to ask public officers and Members present in this Chamber to put themselves in the shoes of the victim of a rape case. She has been under tremendous physical and psychological pressure that she can hardly withstand. Yet, when she can finally pluck up courage to make a report to the Police, it turns out to be the beginning of another kind of torture. She will be questioned respectively by uniformed police officers, Criminal Investigation Department officers and Crime Unit detectives. She has to undergo forensic examinations, run around among different police stations for statement taking and receive medical examinations by doctors. She may even be questioned by other police officers. According to some news reports, sexual violence victims are often required to repeatedly describe the suspected rape incidents for five times, and they have to make a number of trips to and from police stations and hospitals. Let me give an analogy. A survivor of a tragedy has suffered the loss of loved ones in the incident but is then required to repeatedly describe this painful experience for at least five times within a short time. I do not think anyone can find this bearable.

RainLily has handled a total of 3 501 assistance-seeking cases concerning sexual violence since its establishment, but only 1 310 cases have ultimately been reported to the Police. Victim of 44% of the cases gave up reporting them to the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4391

Police, while victims of 220 reported cases chose not to pursue their case. I believe this is due to the need to repeatedly describe the incidents or the undesirable attitude of some law enforcement officers.

Dr CHAN has also proposed the setting up of a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre, which is nothing new. RainLily has been providing one-stop services in Hong Kong for 18 years, and its office is now located at the Prince of Wales Hospital in Sha Tin. However, only one support centre has so far been set up over the past 18 years. In contrast, although the first one-stop support centre in our neighbouring place of Taiwan was only set up in 2008 at a hospital in Taipei City, one-stop support services have subsequently become available at six hospitals in Taipei City within four to five years. These six hospitals are located at the junction of two to three administration areas, and the services they provide can cover the entire Taipei City, making it possible for all sexual violence victims to seek assistance at a support centre nearby. This service model adopted in Taipei City has already extended to six Special Municipalities and Yunlin County of Taiwan.

Chief Executive Carrie LAM has openly stated her position on sexual abuse cases, and complimented victims of such cases for their bravery. I hope that the Government can do more than merely having Mrs LAM speak on the issue to state her position openly. It should make substantial improvements in our system to provide victims with genuinely effective protection.

DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): President, first of all, I thank Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion. The Democratic Party will support Dr CHAN's original motion and all the relevant amendments because we have been very concerned about the support services provided for sexual violence victims and abused children.

The motion proposes that the Government may consider setting up a crisis support centre ("CSC") in public hospitals respectively in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories to provide sexual violence victims and abused children with 24-hour one-stop services. We have been proposing for many years to provide sexual violence victims with one-stop services. The Democratic Party's platform also supports setting up such one-stop CSCs in hospitals. Today, Dr CHAN proposes to extend the relevant one-stop services from sexual violence victims to abused children. The Democratic Party supports 4392 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 this idea as well. A Member's amendment proposes that the CSCs should be composed of two professional teams dedicated to handling different types of cases. We also support it.

Regarding the process of dealing with sexual violence incidents, the judicial, medical and social services supports are actually interconnected and all indispensable. According to the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence ("the Guidelines") issued by the World Health Organization ("WHO"), provision of basic medical support for victims is very important, and medical and judicial services, including statement taking, should be provided in hospitals or clinics, because the WHO Guidelines consider that the best service model is to carry out the relevant procedures in the same location without the victims having to rush between places. We know that the CEASE Crisis Centre under the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") is run by the Tung Wah Group of Hospitals to provide similar services, but not many people use them. Is it due to insufficient publicity, or should the services be provided in hospitals instead of the CEASE Crisis Centre? We expect the Government to look into setting up a more accessible one-stop CSC in hospitals.

According to the WHO Guidelines, high quality facilities for providing medical services should be characterized by four key features, namely being accessible, secure, clean and private. WHO recommends that the relevant procedures be conducted in the same location, but currently the hospitals do not seem to have delineated a fixed area for provision of assistance to sexual violence victims or abused children. On the other hand, we have learned from relevant materials that SWD issued a set of detailed guidelines in 2007, namely the Procedural Guidelines for Handling Adult Sexual Violence Cases, which had a revised version in 2007, but I have not seen any more updated versions ever since. If there is one, I urge Secretary Dr LAW Chi-kwong to let me know. This set of guidelines issued by SWD concerns the Working Group on Sexual Violence. At the time, it recommended the adoption of a 24-hour one-stop service model and proposed to arrange a designated room in the 17 hospitals throughout the territory as far as practicable to provide one-stop services for the victims to receive treatment, give statements and conduct forensic examinations. However, now that 11 years, almost 12, have passed since this set of guidelines was issued, have the 17 hospitals throughout the territory actually arranged designated places or rooms to provide such one-stop services? I hope Under Secretary can answer me whether it is "yes" or "no".

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Based on the cases we have heard, the answer is unfortunately no. Even if there is a designated place, it is not a separate room. This set of guidelines seems fairly good, although it might be criticized. However, in my view, its content has generally covered different stakeholders and relevant procedures, including how the Hospital Authority ("HA") should deal with and help victims who seek assistance at Accident and Emergency Departments ("AEDs"). It also provides guidelines on forensic examinations, the Police's response to reports, SWD's handle of such cases, the practice of the Department of Justice and the legal aid process. However, Under Secretary, I wish to tell you that although this set of guidelines is fairly well written, I hope you can examine whether the parties concerned will actually follow the guidelines in practice.

For example, the guidelines mentioned that when sexual violence victims seek help at AEDs, HA should avoid further traumatizing them unnecessarily as far as possible, or making them repeatedly recount the incident during the relevant procedures. However, that is not the case in reality. We have heard of cases in which when the victim informed the AED staff that she had been raped or sexually assaulted, she was totally ignored or just left sitting aside. Some even refused to take up such cases and asked the victims to seek help from designated hospitals. It turns out that not every hospital will deal with such cases. This can be a big trouble for the victims because they do not necessarily know which hospital to go to for help. In some other cases, as the AED was already in chaos, the staff had no time to pay attention to the victims, thus leaving them in the dark as to how long they had to wait until being taken care of. Therefore, this is one of the issues to be addressed.

Let us not forget the Police. Some police officers did not follow the guidelines. They took statements again and again (The buzzer sounded) …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr WONG, please stop speaking.

DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): I hope the Government makes use for this opportunity to …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please stop speaking immediately.

4394 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

DR HELENA WONG (in Cantonese): … review the relevant operational matters.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I would like to remind Members that in this motion debate, the speaking time limit for each Member who is neither the mover of the motion nor the mover of any amendment is seven minutes. When the buzzer sounds, the Member should stop speaking immediately.

MS CLAUDIA MO (in Cantonese): This motion moved by Dr Pierre CHAN today should have no controversy. But it was very strange that earlier on, some other Members still said that the provision of 24-hour one-stop services to deal with these cases was unnecessary as this would be duplication of resources. This is regrettable indeed.

What also makes me feel regrettable is that no officials from the Security Bureau attend this meeting although this topic is closely related to the Police. I have personally heard a police officer ask the victim from time to time when taking statement whether she was being too sensitive, and he used the word "sensitive". This is a kind of traditional thinking, suggesting that the victim has done something for things to happen. This is victim blaming, attributing the ordeal that the victim is now describing to her own problems, and that is highly undesirable indeed.

Of course, in our present discussion, the provision of one-stop services in dealing with the cases means providing the services in the same place instead of requiring the victim to go to the police station today for statement taking by police officers, and then to the hospital for examination tomorrow, and then to a certain place to receive counselling from social workers the day after tomorrow. Our focus now is the location. The so-called "places" in Dr Pierre CHAN's request are temporary locations in three public hospitals respectively in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon. This is a very humble request, as he is not asking the authorities to provide such services in all public hospitals in Hong Kong tomorrow once the motion is passed today. I hope that the Government can at least consider providing such services in the form of a pilot scheme first, instead of saying that this request is unrealistic, the present services are rather sufficient and we should not further discuss this issue or cause the Government any more trouble. I hope that the Government does not harbour LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4395 such an attitude. The Member who introduces this motion is Dr Pierre CHAN. He is personally a medical practitioner serving in a public hospital and is 100% familiar with this issue.

I would like to elaborate further on tradition. Hong Kong is predominately a Chinese society, well engraved with the long-standing peasant mentality in a traditional feudal society or built around paternal authority, involving the power distribution between monarch and officials, father and son. When the monarch orders an official to kill himself, the official dare not refuse. Therefore, the violence imposed on me by those in power seems to be justified and I dare not voice in opposition.

As shown by many figures―some Members just mentioned those figures which I am not going to repeat―not a few women, after suffering from sexual violence, do not want to report to the Police or recount their painful experience again. Of course, some Members like quoting from tradition to say that monogamy is our tradition. But under our traditional system, a husband could have many wives and concubines. Their argument is totally oblivious to our tradition and is a kind of gender and even transgender discrimination.

When it comes to tradition, ethnic minorities in Hong Kong are being discriminated. Furthermore, they have to face difficulties when receiving certain services due to their differences in tradition, language and culture. Some people say that Hong Kong is predominately a Chinese society, with 95% of Hong Kong people speaking Chinese and only 5% of people are ethnic minorities, and the discussion on ethnic minority problems will bring in more troubles and chaos. However, just like you and me, many of them are 100% Hong Kong people. We have a non-Chinese speaking population of nearly 500 000 people, and many of them do not know Chinese or English. Non-Chinese ethnic minorities, in particular, dare not go to consult a doctor in public hospitals as they do not know Chinese while no interpretation service is available in hospitals. As a result, they refrain from seeking medical treatment for their illnesses. When ethnic minorities dare not consult a doctor to the least, it is almost impossible that ethnic minority women will lodge complaints or report to the Police after suffering from sexual violence.

There are no interpreters stationing in public hospitals to serve ethnic minorities and provide interpretation service readily to the people in need. Services to ethnic minorities are virtually non-existent in public hospitals, and some people say that the wages of those interpreters are on the low side. Health 4396 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

In Action, a non-governmental organization, always points out that when ethnic minorities seek medical consultation in public hospitals, they are completely isolated. When it comes to the situation of ethnic minority women suffering from sexual violence, we can understand their difficulties in reporting to the Police. In regard to child abuse cases, when a child is being repeatedly interrogated, he or she will panic and feel tired. Even adults cannot stand repeated interrogations. Hence, I hope that the Government can really give thorough consideration to this issue and acknowledge our aspirations today. Thank you.

DR CHIANG LAI-WAN (in Cantonese): President, I thank very much Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion on "Requesting the Government to set up crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals". Under this motion, we also hope that the Government can consider setting up this kind of crisis support centres to serve, in addition to sexual violence victims and abused children, also victims of domestic violence which happened more often in recent years and even abused elderly. Mr Steven HO just mentioned some tragic cases happened recently. In these few years, a majority of new arrivals in Hong Kong are women who are not familiar with this place at all. When there is domestic violence problem, for example if a woman is beaten by her husband, she really has no channel to complain. The situation of this group of women is miserable, as even during their visits back to their hometowns, it is also difficult for them to air their grievances. These women had high expectations of their future life when they got married and was about to move to Hong Kong back then, but they would be totally at a loss when they found that a tough life was waiting for them after their arrival in Hong Kong, not to mention the problems in their marriage life.

A woman has told me that she was once assaulted by her husband. With a swollen face and her forehead bleeding, she went to the hospital and was given immediate medical treatment there. Although domestic violence was involved, she could only say that the wound was caused during a quarrel with her husband. And she returned home afterwards. The staff in the hospital had asked her whether her case should be referred to a social worker for assistance, but she instantly felt panicky, because she would need to leave her telephone number and find the social worker herself. She was completely at a loss. If this kind of crisis support centres can be set up in future, direct assistance can be given to not only sexual violence victims and abused children, but also to these women. I LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4397 believe they are in great need of this kind of assistance, because it is very difficult for a woman to give an account of how she is badly treated by her husband in a public area. If a room or a centre, where there is a group of trained social workers who can offer immediate assistance, can be arranged for these women, I believe the occurrence of family tragedies can be reduced or certain family crises can be immediately alleviated.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

The Women's Affairs Committee of the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong has received some complaints from women in connection with sexual assaults in MTR or public transport, but these women felt a lack of channels for lodging their complaints. Some of them have lodged such complaints which were, however, not followed up on due to insufficient evidence. Some women told us their experience of reporting to the Police after being sexually assaulted. Inside the hospital, they were repeatedly asked by the police officers about their ordeal. In the absence of any designated room or area, the police officers simply asked them questions in the lobby of the Accident and Emergency Department, and they felt reluctant to answer the questions. Some law enforcement officers even asked them details of the situation. For example, whether left hand or right hand was first used or what movements were made by the opposite party. In fact, it is very painful for them to recall what happened, and I believe that such pain cannot be understood by men.

Therefore, we very much hope that the authorities can consider studying the feasibility of setting up a crisis support centre in the major public hospital of each region in Hong Kong. We know that in the past, there was a support centre in Kowloon West. But it seemed that the support centre was somehow moved to a certain place in the New Territories at the end. Dr CHAN says that a support centre was already set up in Prince of Wales Hospital. Nevertheless, we very much hope that a crisis support centre can be set up in the major public hospital of each region in Hong Kong. If the Government can consider setting up such crisis support centres, we hope that these centres can also provide services for victims of domestic violence.

I so submit. Thank you, Deputy President.

4398 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

MR VINCENT CHENG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I speak in support of Dr Pierre CHAN's motion and agree to the proposal of setting up a crisis support centre for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals respectively in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon. In regard to the amendments of other Members, with recommendations which include increasing manpower, and forming a crisis support centre with two professional teams, one dedicated to handling sexual violence cases whereas the other dedicated to handling child abuse cases, I also give my support. It is also my hope that once the motion is carried by the Legislative Council, the Government and the Hospital Authority can start planning as soon as possible.

Deputy President, the original motion mentions the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence ("the Guidelines") issued by the World Health Organization ("WHO"). The Guidelines state that sexual violence victims should, as far as possible, receive all medical treatment, forensic examinations for collecting evidence, and other necessary services in the same place, such as in a hospital or clinic. It is most desirable that the health care personnel handling sexual violence and child abuse cases should have received proper training. The Guidelines also particularly mention that if the person seeking help is female, she should be attended by health care personnel of the same gender as far as possible.

This place with all the necessary equipment should provide round-the-clock services. The major principle for providing the related supportive services is to provide a safe place with adequate degree of privacy. The health care personnel cannot display any discrimination against certain sexual orientations or extramarital affairs, and should not show any orientation against people who are culturally, racially or religiously different from them.

Deputy President, I would like to add one point about race. In Hong Kong, we now have an ethnic minority population of over 300 000 people, but the support provided to them in hospitals is severely insufficient. In the many cases that we received, the victims do not dare to seek medical consultation in hospitals because of communication breakdown and the very poor interpretation service. I hope that this aspect can be done better.

Dr Pierre CHAN's motion is not asking too much. As mentioned by many colleagues earlier on, in some regions outside Hong Kong, such support centres have long been set up in some hospitals. But in Hong Kong, Prince of Wales LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4399

Hospital is the only one hospital which has a dedicated room to provide such one-stop support services. I have to particularly thank the organization called RainLily for providing these services in that hospital, but I understand that it is facing serious constraints in resources. Hence, after this motion is passed today, I hope that the Government can adopt Members' views and undertake preparatory work without delay so that more frontline staff can provide one-stop services to support more abused victims.

Deputy President, hospitals are usually the first contact point for victims of sexual violence and child abuse, and the setting up of crisis support centres to provide one-stop services is in line with both the WHO standard and humanity. The victims at least do not have to wait at the hospital lobby for a long period of time for preliminary assessments by nurses, and then, after meeting the doctors, recount their painful ordeal again to police officers and other related officers. It is thus very important to provide a separate ward with a high degree of privacy to the victims.

I have heard of not a few cases, especially wife abuse cases, in the past. After the wife was assaulted by her husband, both of them went to the hospital. But it was really difficult for police officers to assess the severity of the case and the hospital was also in lack of counselling service. Afterwards, both husband and wife were allowed to return home. Subsequently of course, the wife was unfortunately assaulted again by her husband. Truly, even one such incident is too many. Deputy President, if crisis support centres can be set up, the centres or the dedicated health care personnel can provide more appropriate assistance to victims of domestic violence cases. I find that the present situation is very extreme, either point zero or 100. On one end, police officers are very concerned and keep on interrogating the victims, but on the other end, they just totally disregard them. Can they do something more in between point zero and 100?

Deputy President, apart from sexual violence, I would also want to talk about child abuse, because the problem of child abuse is getting serious. We will not forget that in January this year, the five-year-old Lam-lam (CHAN Sui-lam) was abused to death by her father and step-mother, and this case is still being processed by the Court. In another case, the seven-year-old Lam-lam (LING Yun-lam) suffered from malnutrition due to her mother's negligence. She has fallen into a vegetative state while her mother was sentenced to 15 years' imprisonment. At present, we can hear many child abuse cases. According to 4400 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 the central information system of the Social Welfare Department, the number of newly reported child abuse cases last year reached 947 cases, hitting a record high over the past four years. As at the end of September this year, there were already nearly 800 cases, 70% of them involved physical abuse and negligence while 66% of them involved parents as the abusers. This is saddening and sorrowful indeed.

The child abuse cases in recent years often involved young families. What are the causes leading to this kind of family tragedies? Is it due to pressure of living, divorce or changes in household composition that some children are neglected of care or become the main targets for parents to vent their anger? Each case differs from others. But for the approach in dealing with these cases, it is always better to have earlier identification and intervention. Hence, I have to reiterate that if a crisis support centre can be set up in each region, I believe that the work concerned can be planned in a systematic way.

As I have learned, in the wake of the case of Lam-lam (CHAN Sui-lam), the reporting mechanism for absentees in kindergartens and schools was enhanced. The Government has also allocated more resources to implement the policy of "one school social worker for each school" in primary schools, and will later introduce the Pilot Scheme on Social Work Service for Kindergartens. On the other hand, the Government has also set up the Commission on Children. Nevertheless, we expect to have more measures. For instance, it is necessary to study and review the existing legislation related to child abuse in order to see whether the penalties have sufficient deterrent effect. We learn from previous child abuse cases that early discovery by schools will help alleviate the situation. Therefore, we have to review anew the implementation of the Procedural Guide For Handling Child Abuse Cases and identify areas of improvement.

Finally, Deputy President, I very much hope that the Government can draw up a mechanism to deal with and review serious child abuse cases; proactively provide, through collaboration with social welfare institutions, counselling and follow-up services particularly to potentially high-risk families; and through clear division of duties between the professionals in social work and those in counselling, strive together to reduce the number of child abuse cases.

Deputy President, I so submit.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4401

MS CHAN HOI-YAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, according to the information provided by the Social Welfare Department ("SWD"), as at September, the numbers of reported sexual violence and child abuse cases this year were already 720 and 793 respectively. It is worth taking note that these are the reported figures. Considering the complexity of sexual violence and child abuse cases and the inconvenience for the victims to seek assistance, I thus believe that the figures concerned cannot reflect the whole picture, as some victims might not have sought help due to various kinds of reasons, and there are even many hidden cases. Therefore, I give my support to the original motion and the amendments proposed by other Members, which seek to set up a crisis support centre with a high degree of privacy in three public hospitals respectively to provide sexual violence victims and abused children with 24-hour one-stop comprehensive services. And I also hope that it can be seriously implemented by the Administration.

I think if the recommendation can be implemented, the present situation that the victims, especially sexual violence victims, have to suffer secondary or multiple victimization when repeatedly recounting their ordeal to different people or to the law enforcement departments, can be effectively avoided, and the pressure on the victims when seeking assistance can also be effectively reduced, so that people with such unfortunate experience can be protected, and can seek support and report the cases to the Police with their hearts more at ease.

I would like to further highlight that apart from dealing with sexual violence child abuse cases, the crisis support centre providing related one-stop services should, in my view, also consider providing support to victims of domestic violence cases. The main reason is that when seeking support, the victim of a domestic violence case actually also needs to face substantial and heavy psychological pressure. Such pressure may come from the assailant who is usually living together with the victim or is the partner of the victim. Besides, some victims give up seeking support because they think that such "family disgraces" should not be exposed.

According to the survey conducted earlier by a social welfare institution, after the first violent treatment was imposed on the domestic violence victims, they would only seek help from professionals, social workers or the Police five years later on average. We need to know that due to various kinds of reasons, the abusers of domestic violence will normally become more aggressive. 4402 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Hence, if these victims only seek help five years later, we can imagine that they may suffer more serious violence in the interim, and this situation is definitely undesirable.

According to the statistics also provided by SWD, the number of reported domestic violence cases or spouse/cohabitant battering cases last year was as many as 3 128 cases. Although the number of such cases has dropped in recent years, as at September this year, the number concerned was still as high as 2 213 cases. This reflects that the domestic violence problem is still rather severe. And actually, even one such case is too many.

In fact, we know that SWD and some social welfare institutions also provide support to domestic violence victims. The series of services provided by the social workers include outreaching, social investigation and group treatment, while referrals for various services, for example, legal aid, school placement, residential placement etc. will also be arranged. These services are relatively comprehensive. But considering the complexity of the domestic violence problem, particularly the more serious cases, the victims may still be unable to obtain adequate protection.

I have exchanges with some people who are highly concerned about women rights, and learned about one of the cases. A woman was admitted to hospital after being treated with violence by her husband. That woman earnestly wanted to go home to pack her stuff, but the medical social worker surely did not give permission. After staying in the hospital for one night, that woman still insisted to go home. Since victims are not criminals and the hospital cannot stop patients from leaving, the hospital has no alternative but to discharge her. Finally, that woman went home alone and was treated with violence again when packing her luggage. These cases tell us a fact that victims of sexual violence or domestic violence, after being treated with violence, are still likely to be subject to subsequent harm. Therefore, domestic violence victims also need some immediate assistance and support services, apart from social workers' support. In the case that I just mentioned, if a social worker and a police officer had accompanied the victim home, the tragedy would very likely not have occurred.

In the face of sexual violence or domestic violence, or even substantial family changes, the victims will be rather confused psychologically and cannot even recollect themselves temporarily, and thus may overlook their own personal safety protection or consideration. If we can provide the victims with one-stop LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4403 assistance and support at the first point of contact, i.e. hospitals, so that they can calm down quickly and report to the Police for assistance under a safeguarded environment with a high degree of privacy, I believe this can surely and effectively reduce the victims' chances of being treated with violence again.

The recommendation of setting up a crisis support centre to provide one-stop services can exactly offer information on mental, legal and even financial support to the victims immediately after the unfortunate incidents happened, so that the victims can see a way out in their misfortune. I think this kind of support is more urgent and important than other follow-up assistance. In the process, the various kinds of support provided by the crisis support centre offering one-stop services will involve various professional and administrative issues. Hence, the implementation of the entire mechanism will require inter-departmental dedication. I hope that the authorities and different government departments can seriously consider the feasibility of the recommendation, and be more down-to-earth by listening to the voices of the Council and the public, with a view to giving a positive response on the implementation of the recommendation.

I so submit. Thank you, Deputy President.

DR JUNIUS HO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I thank Dr Pierre CHAN for moving this motion to request the Government to set up crisis support centres in public hospitals for sexual violence victims and abused children. He proposes to set up a crisis support centre with 24-hour one-stop services in three public hospitals for the victims to properly receive diagnosis and treatment or examination and for the Police to take evidence. I support this motion.

That said, it requires careful consideration and discussion on how to implement the proposal and divide the work in detail. Although I support the motion, I also wish to make one point. Most parents in general care about their children. No parents would not try their best to raise their children. Certainly, we need to eliminate any cases of child abuse or keep it to the minimal, and also provide the greatest possible support to abused children, so that they can recover from their wound as soon as possible. However, in traditional Chinese society, the more parents love their children, the more painful they would actually feel in their heart. Has anyone who is brought up in a traditional Chinese family not 4404 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 received any corporal punishment from his parents? We should not casually equate corporal punishment to child abuse. We have to differentiate them based on their different meaning and intention.

I was born in the 1960s. Has anyone who was born in those years not been beaten with a whip? Who has not been beaten by their mother for wearing earrings? When a child is naughty and when lecturing him no longer works, it is just normal that the mother would resort to corporal punishment. We must clearly separate corporal punishment from child abuse. In the end of 1980s and early 1990s, corporal punishment was banned in schools. In our primary school days, the principal or class mistress would flog our palm with a ruler until it turned red. This could be the reason why the lines on my palm are so deep. So, we should be careful not to overcorrect a problem. It is out of love and care that parents beat their children. We should not completely strangle this traditional idea just because some unfortunate incidents have happened in society.

I pointed out just now that corporal punishment is now banned in schools. This has created a "Princess Syndrome" in society. Children who have been brought up in excessive care and protection experience serious setbacks when they face competition and challenges in society. I thus think that suitable corporal punishment is necessary. It is a parental right and a kind of parental guidance. Hence, while I support this motion, I hope that the pendulum would not swing to the other extreme. Raising a child can sometimes make you lose your temper. Punishing the child does not necessarily mean child abuse. It is an act of love and care. It is meant to let the child know what he has done wrong, so that he would not make a bigger mistake in society or in his life later.

I thus hold that the Social Welfare Department or the Education Bureau should consider the basic policy in this regard and whether corporal punishment is necessary or be allowed in certain situations. I hope that the Department or the Bureau can clearly set out the guidelines to dispel the major grey areas; otherwise, children may abuse the Police hotline whenever their parents slightly punish them.

I am not joking. There was a case in which the mother beat her four-year old daughter as a light punishment and the daughter called the Police saying her mother abused her. In fact, it was a harmonious family and they loved each other. This phenomenon may deepen the wrong concept in the family and widen the gap among the family members. We wish to maintain the concept of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4405 the family. We want our children to perform better and grow up in a healthy environment. But in the process, they will inevitably make mistakes. We should be allowed to use suitable corporal punishment to correct them. I so submit. Thank you.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak? Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, do you wish to speak?

MR LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, today, we discuss the motion on "Requesting the Government to set up crisis support centres for sexual violence victims and abused children in public hospitals". The Government should indeed brook no delay in setting up support centres. According to statistics provided by RainLily, like Dr Elizabeth QUAT just said, sexual violence cases were on the increase from 2013 to 2018. In 2013, a sexual violence case happened roughly in every 7.4 hours; and in 2018, investigation was initiated on 712 cases. The statistics show that the number of sexual violence cases is rising.

Moreover, according to statistics from the Social Welfare Department, a total of 2 740 cases of child abuse were reported from 2015 to 2017 and 554 from January to June this year. It is evident that the cases of two groups of abused persons that we are concerned about are rising. It is thus very important that the Government sets up support centres, especially support centres with one-stop services, in public hospitals.

Actually, we all know that the number of child abuse cases in Tin Shui Wai, Yuen Long and Tuen Mun has been on the high side. The Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong has held a round-table meeting to discuss the solution to child abuse issues and the points of concern in society. In this regard, we hope that the Government can stop or prevent such cases before they actually happen. Conversely, today's motion focuses on the time after such cases happen and how to provide more suitable services to the victims after they have arrived at the hospitals.

Apparently, the Government is aware of the need to provide suitable services for the victims. According to Dr Pierre CHAN's letter to us, such one-stop support services are available at the Prince of Wales Hospital in New 4406 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Territories East. I believe the Government recognizes the importance of such services and thus sets up a support service centre at the hospital. Hence, I hold that we should request the Government to extend the practice of setting up support centres to other hospitals. The request is worthy of our support and discussion.

As many Members just mentioned, victims of sexual violence find it hard to go to the hospital after being sexually abused. Worse still, they have to undergo investigation and evidence-taking by different departments and physical examination after arriving at the hospital. They have to be questioned seven times, or go through the so-called "seven difficulties". They are thus placed in an extremely difficult situation, and they may give up seeking help altogether. This is our greatest worry. It is thus very important that the support centres can handle all these issues in one go, so that the victims who ultimately seek help from the Government or related departments can give honest answers to different departments, which is very crucial to their interests.

Child abuse involves the parents of the abused children. At present, most child abuse cases are caused by parents, accounting for almost 60% of the cases. So, I believe the abused children who undergo hospital examination or need to give evidence, or children who cannot recount the abuse, may need a lot of professional support requiring special skills to help them tell the truth. It is thus very important that one-stop support services be provided to help these children or victims.

In the past, a victim might first report to the Police and then be referred to a hospital, or the victim might first go to the hospital and report to the police officers there and then seek help from social workers and, if necessary, the forensic pathologist for gathering physical evidence. The Government's approach in the past was too simple, perhaps because it thought that it had already provided sufficient manpower and made necessary arrangements for the victims or that it had sufficiently addressed the problems. Now, given that the Government has provided a one-stop support service at the Prince of Wales Hospital, we hope that it, especially the two Secretaries of Departments here, can deploy more resources in this area for different medical teams and law enforcement departments to jointly handle these cases, thereby providing better services for the victims. I hold that this is worth our support.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4407

Hence, I support the original motion and all the amendments. Thank you, Deputy President.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Pierre CHAN, you may now speak on the amendments. The time limit is five minutes.

DR PIERRE CHAN (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I thank Ms Alice MAK, Mr SHIU Ka-chun and Dr Fernando CHEUNG for moving amendments to my motion. I notice that we are all working towards the same direction and goal. We all wish to provide suitable assistance to sexual violence victims and abused children to minimize their pain.

Ms Alice MAK mentions the need to set up one-stop crisis support centres and provide professional and adequate manpower, so as to enable victims to expeditiously access emotional and psychological counselling and legal advice. Her suggestions are the best means to help the traumatic victims to minimize the obstacles and embarrassment they may encounter when they seek help. If the Police can set up a dedicated department for sexual violence cases, coupled with the one-stop crisis support centres, I believe we can increase the number of reported cases and enhance the prosecution possibilities.

Dr Fernando CHEUNG suggests focusing the support on abused children and requests a substantial increase in the number of residential placements for children to give a dwelling for children who cannot return to their home. Undoubtedly, Dr Fernando CHEUNG's requests are worth our support. Precisely because there is no such urgent placements for abused children, they are forced to lengthen their stay in children wards.

Certainly, we should not neglect the needs of ethnic minorities. We should improve the interpretation and translation services to avoid their cases being deprived of fair and impartial treatment.

4408 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Deputy President, given that my original motion and the three amendments are of the same effect, I earnestly urge Members to support my motion and the amendments. I so submit.

SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I would like to thank Dr Pierre CHAN once again for moving the motion today and I am also grateful to the three Members for putting forward their amendments. Just now, in the speech Mr IP Kin-yuen delivered on behalf of Mr SHIU Ka-chun, we were reminded that our last discussion on the issue of sexual violence was held in the Chamber as far back as 2000. On 12 April 2000, Mr James TO moved a motion on sexual violence which suggested the provision of one-stop emergency support services. I thanked Mr James TO at that time for his help, for I had moved another motion and thus lost my priority in the allocation of motion slots. Mr James TO then raised the motion on behalf of me. Later in November that year, RainLily was established and started to provide services. Mrs CHU―Mrs Patricia CHU―former Deputy Director of Social Welfare, and Ms Ann LAU, former Assistant Director, both rendered great support to the establishment and the work of RainLily. And of course, we later saw CEASE Crisis Centre rolling out services.

It would be a misunderstanding if you think I was trying to tell you that the Government had been doing a great job. I will of course tell you what the Government has done, but we do actually have room for constant improvement in some areas. I would like to express my gratitude here for all the comments Members have given today.

The Social Welfare Department ("SWD"), the Hospital Authority ("HA"), the Police and other relevant professionals have all along adhered to the Procedural Guidelines for Handling Adult Sexual Violence Cases and the Procedural Guide for Handling Child Abuse Cases, and adopted a people-oriented approach in providing services for victims and in conducting the necessary procedures. The contents of these two guidelines have been verified and revised several times by a number of professionals with reference to actual experiences. Next, I will respond to some of the comments made by the Members.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4409

The motion mentioned about the provision of facilities in public hospitals for the Police to take statements from victims of sexual violence by way of video-recorded interview. At present, the Police will not arrange video recording when taking statements from mentally sound adult victims of sexual violence. As a matter of fact, the video footage of a statement-taking interview cannot meet the requirements for admissible evidence under the Criminal Procedure Ordinance (Cap. 221). As for the arrangement under which children or mentally incapacitated persons are video recorded as evidence in criminal proceedings, experience told us that the relevant recording can only be done when the physical and mental states of those children or mentally incapacitated persons allow, and in the presence of trained professionals under a specific environment. Generally speaking, hospitals may not be suitable venues for the purpose and we have not seen any necessity for conducting the above recording procedures in hospitals.

We all know that very often the hospital is not the first place these victims of sexual violence would like to go. They may go to other places to seek help first, for example, a police station. Therefore, the way we now consider is to continue with our ongoing efforts so as to meet the requirements laid down in the guidelines. We hope to make available suitable venues in 18 hospitals for the provision of the relevant one-stop services. I know all along that, as pointed out by Members just now, there were cases where victims did not seek help until quite some time after the incidents had taken place. They might not need to seek medical services.

Mr SHIU Ka-chun cannot move his amendment but in his intended amendment, he suggests the Police avoid demanding the victims to repeat details of the incidents, so as to minimize the reopening of old wounds. We agree with this in principle and this part is also specified rather clearly in the guidelines. It is a long-held principle of the Police to ensure the personal safety of the victims and to prevent further harm inflicted to them. They also hope to bring offenders to justice. To alleviate the stress and psychological trauma faced by a victim of sexual violence while he or she is assisting police investigation, the Police will strive to arrange the victim to meet a same-gender police officer expeditiously wherever practicable. Upon receiving report of sexual violence, police officers will only ask the victim questions necessary for determining if immediate medical treatment has to be arranged or if immediate action has to be taken. Various crime investigation units will work closely together so as to expeditiously transfer the case to the unit ultimately responsible for it. The Police will also avoid as 4410 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 far as possible asking the victim to repeat details of the case for the purpose of filling omissions or clarifying doubts in the statement. Victims will not be asked to recount the incidents in places where their privacy cannot be protected. The Police will as well introduce to the victims non-governmental organizations which specialize in crisis intervention for victims of sexual violence. With the consent of the victims, the Police will refer them to RainLily or CEASE Crisis Centre in a timely manner. The victims can make a relevant choice here.

In her amendment, Ms Alice MAK suggests establishing a special investigation team. The Police will review from time to time the use of procedures and resources in handling sexual violence and child abuse cases, and will appoint different teams to conduct investigation with regard to the complexity and severity of the cases, so as to ensure investigation efficiency and the provision of services appropriate to victims' needs in sexual violence or child abuse cases. These teams include District Investigation Teams, District Crime Squads, Regional Crime Units and so on. The Police have no plans at the present stage to set up a dedicated team to focus on cases involving sexual violence.

Cases involving child abuse are usually handled by District Investigation Teams. The more severe or complex cases, for instance those involving sexual abuse of children, will be jointly investigated by Child Protection Special Investigation Teams under Regional Crime Units, and Family and Child Protective Services Units under SWD.

The Police will continue to maintain effective communication with SWD, the relevant experts and government departments for a better understanding of the feelings and needs of victims of sexual violence, and strive to ensure the provision of professional and appropriate services for the persons concerned.

Ms Alice MAK highlights the need for adequate and professional manpower to provide comprehensive support services. This is also our concern. The CEASE Crisis Centre, now subvented by SWD, provides one-stop designated social work services. We hope to provide adequate resources for them to operate and that they can render continued support and follow-up services to the victims, with the latter's consent. In 2017-2018, the CEASE Crisis Centre altogether handled more than 500 sexual violence cases.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4411

SWD, HA, the Police and other relevant departments will continue to monitor closely the effectiveness of the one-stop services model, with a view to further improving the relevant services. As I have said in the opening speech, relevant departments and organizations such as SWD, HA and the Police conduct regular inspection of the designated wards in the 18 hospitals to ensure they meet the convenience, safety and privacy requirements. They will also rehearse the relevant one-stop services procedures in major public hospitals, to ensure the health care and other professionals concerned are familiar with the procedures relevant to the one-stop services and able to achieve coordination among themselves.

Dr Fernando CHEUNG's amendment asks for shortening the time of abused children overstaying in hospitals. This is also one of our goals. When children are suspected to have been abused, relevant departments and non-governmental organizations will handle these cases in accordance with the Procedural Guide for Handling Child Abuse Cases in a multi-disciplinary manner. They will try to convene, within 10 working days after completing investigation wherever possible, a multi-disciplinary case conference on protecting children in the alleged child abuse case, with a view to letting professionals dealing with or investigating the case, including health care professionals, teachers, social workers, police officers, and clinical psychologists, discuss and decide the best arrangement for the children concerned after crisis assessment. The case conferences will formulate welfare plans for the children and their families and designate caseworkers to implement the plans.

Of course, as Dr Pierre CHAN pointed out, some children stayed for a prolonged period in hospitals because of the abuse they suffered. It actually is our goal to formulate a hospital discharge plan for children after assessing their needs so as to facilitate their early discharge as far as practicable. SWD will continue to monitor the usage and demand of various residential child care services and increase the number of relevant places in the forthcoming years.

With regard to the work on supporting ethnic minorities, SWD is planning to commission non-governmental organizations to set up a dedicated team to organize public education activities, with a view to raising ethnic minorities' awareness in domestic violence and sexual violence and encouraging the victims to seek help. SWD will also commission non-governmental organizations to set up three dedicated outreach teams to support ethnic minorities' use of welfare 4412 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 services on Hong Kong Island, in Kowloon and the New Territories. Ethnic minorities will be hired in these dedicated outreach teams which are expected to start operation in 2019-2020.

The support for victims of sexual violence and the protection of children calls for inter-disciplinary collaboration. SWD, HA, the Police and various other departments will continue to adopt a people-oriented approach, maintain communication with the stakeholders concerned, formulate relevant professional guidelines and keep the services flexible, on top of listening to voices and views in a committed effort to provide better services. I believe that this motion debate will be conducive to improving and following up the support services in the future.

Deputy President, I so submit.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon Ms Alice MAK to move an amendment.

MS ALICE MAK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move my amendment.

The amendment moved by Ms Alice MAK (See the marked-up version at Annex 1)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Ms Alice MAK be passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4413

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority respectively of each of the two groups of Members, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, who are present. I declare the amendment passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): As Mr SHIU Ka-chun is not present, this Council will not deal with his amendment. I now call upon Dr Fernando CHEUNG to move his amendment.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Fernando CHEUNG, as the amendment of Ms Alice MAK has been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

DR FERNANDO CHEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I move that Dr Pierre CHAN's motion as amended by Ms Alice MAK be further amended by my revised amendment.

The further amendment moved by Dr Fernando CHEUNG to the motion as amended by Ms Alice MAK (See the marked-up version at Annex 2)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Dr Fernando CHEUNG to Dr Pierre CHAN's motion as amended by Ms Alice MAK be passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

4414 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority respectively of each of the two groups of Members, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, who are present. I declare the amendment passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Pierre CHAN, you still have 3 minutes and 23 seconds to reply. Then, the debate will come to a close.

DR PIERRE CHAN (in Cantonese): Many thanks to Members for speaking on this motion today. I wish to explain why I propose this motion. The reason is that the Government, the Security Bureau and the Labour and Welfare Bureau all feel good about themselves, thinking that they have already put in place one-stop services. But I wish to point out that when we attend to victims of sexual abuse (in English) and child abuse (in English) in hospital―let me tell Members why I use English―I have the feeling that the Government is abusing (in English) hospital services.

On 27 June this year, I asked an oral question in the Legislative Council. The oral and also written replies given by the Secretary for Security have revealed to us that the "one-stop services" as they call it are without any rooms, without any video-recording facilities for taking statements, without any privacy protection, and also without any immediate arrangements for translators' assistance. Earlier on, the Legislative Council already conducted many discussions on this issue, including an oral question on this topic as early as 2000. Thanks to Dr Fernando CHEUNG, the Panel on Welfare Services formed the Subcommittee on Strategy and Measures to Tackle Domestic Violence and Sexual Violence ("the Subcommittee"). During the period from 2014 to 2016, the Subcommittee held a total of 13 meetings to receive views from 79 deputations and individuals and compiled an 18-page report with 18 recommendations. The Government should not tell us again that the services it provides at different time and space are already one-stop services and regard a whole Accident and Emergency Department ("AED"), a whole hospital and even Hong Kong as a whole as a "stop" in its words. This "stop" is even larger than an MTR station. In that case, how am I supposed to discuss the matter with the Government in the future?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4415

Speaking of sexual violence and child abuse cases, various departments all think that such cases are part of their duties, and they have formulated guidelines and done their work―well, without any coordination, I must say. This is precisely heads-down work. What I see is a team without teamwork. Theoretically, the Social Welfare Department ("SWD") is the leader with government resources. But it has failed in its tasks of providing leadership and conducting liaison. This is precisely "a leader without leadership". In June this year, I asked a question about cases of sexual violence and child abuse in hospitals every day. According to the Government's reply, the authorities have not kept any overall figures on the number of rape and indecent assault victims who have received medical treatment and examination in AED of public hospitals; neither have they compiled any statistics on the number of such victims who have given a statement and received forensic examination. The Secretary for Security asserted that video-recording was necessary. But the Secretary for Labour and Welfare has nonetheless told us the otherwise. The Hospital Authority, SWD and the Police … This is communication breakdown. My five recommendations are precisely targeted at the Government's replies and the existing systemic deficiencies. My motion is a very modest one, and it merely requests the setting up of three crisis support centres in Hong Kong Island, Kowloon and the New Territories, so as to offer a bit more of privacy protection and support to such victims and reduce their frustration and difficulties by just a slight bit.

Finally, I wish to take this opportunity to express particular gratitude to our professional teams of frontline social workers, medical personnel and forensic pathologists for always siding with the "egg". I also wish to thank our fellow organizations, including the RainLily, the CEASE Crisis Centre and the New Arrival Women League, for offering company to sexual violence victims throughout the darkest night of their life and assisting them in walking out of darkness in the prolonged counselling process.

I so submit, and I also wish to thank Members for supporting the motion.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Dr Pierre CHAN, as amended by Ms Alice MAK and Dr Fernando CHEUNG, be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

4416 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

Dr Pierre CHAN rose to claim a division.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Pierre CHAN has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.

(While the division bell was ringing, THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, Mr Abraham SHEK, Mr Tommy CHEUNG, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Steven HO, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr Jimmy NG, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Dr Pierre CHAN, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr KWONG Chun-yu and Mr Tony TSE voted for the motion as amended.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Dr Priscilla LEUNG, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mr Paul TSE, Ms Claudia MO, Mr Michael TIEN, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4417

Wai-keung, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Dr Helena WONG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Dr CHIANG Lai-wan, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Ms YUNG Hoi-yan, Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Dr CHENG Chung-tai, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Gary FAN, Mr AU Nok-hin, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the motion as amended.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 24 were present and 23 were in favour of the motion as amended; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 28 were present and 28 were in favour of the motion as amended. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the motion as amended was passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Debate on motion with no legislative effect.

The motion debate on "Fully transforming into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and proactively alleviating and coping with global climate change".

Members who wish to speak will please press the "Request to speak" button.

I call upon Mr Martin LIAO to speak and move the motion.

FULLY TRANSFORMING INTO A GREEN AND LOW-CARBON SMART SOCIETY AND ECONOMY, AND PROACTIVELY ALLEVIATING AND COPING WITH GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): President, the motion I move today is about a major issue covering many different aspects, such as global politics, economy, people's livelihood, extreme weather, climate refugees, energy, transport, disease control, food, water resources, earth species, etc. Internationally, the problem of climate change has already reached the level of a common crisis imminently threatening the life and death of mankind. Numerous international meetings are convened to discuss the issue and a large number of research reports have been prepared on the subject. At the United Nations 4418 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Climate Change Conference being held in Poland, all participating parties are urged to take decisive actions to address the problem of climate change. Many related studies and activities are also underway in Hong Kong. Due to the limited debate time in this Council, it is of course impossible for us to have an in-depth discussion about this issue. However, I wish to focus our debate on this motion on several key issues, with a view to motivating various parties in Hong Kong to face this severe problem more seriously, and participate more actively in the global efforts to tackle the problem of climate change.

President, Hong Kong has experienced the issuance of a Very Hot Weather Warning for a record-breaking number of 348 consecutive hours, as well as the onslaught of super typhoon Mangkhut this year. Many different places around the world are also facing the challenges of the new normal of extreme weather. For example, high temperatures at record-breaking levels have been recorded respectively in Europe, Africa, the United States, Japan and South Korea, while Australia was hit by a most serious drought in decades. According to the papers of the European Parliament, an average of over 20 million climate refugees were forced to move away from their home or even flee to another country in each of the last 10 years.

To resolve these crises, multilateral agreements have been concluded internationally for various places to commit to achieving certain emission reduction targets having regard to their own circumstances. According to the common target set under the Paris Agreement, we should strive to limit the increase in global average temperature below 2°C or even 1.5°C above preindustrial levels, and to achieve carbon neutrality by the second half of this century. However, as reflected in the monitoring report on the implementation of the Paris Agreement, after a period of stagnation for three years, the amount of global greenhouse gas emissions increased last year to a record-breaking level of 49.2 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent, and the progress made by many countries including the Group of Twenty in carbon reduction fell far short of their committed target. It is estimated that in order to limit the increase in temperature below 1.5°C, there should be a further increase in the emission reduction target set for various places by four times.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

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A report released by the team of scientists under the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change further cautions that extreme weather and rising sea levels are the disastrous effects caused by an increase of 1°C in global temperature, and judging from the current pace, the accumulated increase in this respect will possibly reach 1.5°C after 12 years the soonest. It has urged for an expedite and far-reaching transformation in such areas as energy, architecture, city planning and transport worldwide to ensure that the increase in temperature will be kept below 2°C, thereby avoiding the ecological disaster caused by even more far-reaching and irreversible changes, such as the extinction of coral reef.

Hong Kong can in no way be exempted from its responsibility in this regard. In as early as 2007, the Hong Kong Government has already stated in the Policy Address that "[g]lobal warming has become a challenge to the international community". It has set up an inter-departmental working group to coordinate measures in adapting to climate change, and promoted subsequently the development of a low-carbon economy based on low energy consumption and low pollution, the transformation into a low-carbon smart city, the provision of green and smart buildings, etc. Ten years have passed since then, and what achievements have we made?

Deputy President, according to the Government's emission reduction targets for 2030, our carbon intensity will be reduced by 65% to 70% of the 2005, which is equivalent to an absolute reduction of 26% to 36%, and our per capita emissions will be reduced to 3.3 to 3.8 tonnes. Has the progress made by Hong Kong in carbon reduction fallen short of these targets? As compared with the level in 2005, our carbon intensity has so far been reduced by over 30%, and we have attained nearly half of the target set in this respect. However, instead of a reduction, an increase was recorded in our absolute emissions in 2016, which amounted to a total of 41.9 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent, 70 tonnes more than the amount recorded in 2005 and 60% higher than the level set in the strictest emission reduction targets adopted for 2030. If we take a closer look at the inventory compiled for different sources of greenhouse gas emissions in Hong Kong, we will discover that apart from the carbon emission figures recorded on "electricity generation" and "agriculture, forestry and other land use", which have shown a decline, increased emissions have been recorded for all other sources such as "transport", "use of fuel for combustion in buildings", "handling of waste", "industrial processes", etc. Moreover, over the past 12 years, the 4420 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 changes in the annual per capita emissions have all along been maintained in the range of 0.5 tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent. People wonder how this can be reduced by 2.4 tonnes in the coming 12 years from 5.7 tonnes at present to the target of 3.3 tonnes. In a written question raised by me at the current meeting, I have asked the Government when the target to reduce our per capita emissions to 2 tonnes can be attained to keep the global temperature increase below 2°C. Although the Secretary has not given me any direct reply, the Government has once told us that "Hong Kong still has a long way to go". If consumer behaviours are also taken into consideration instead of adopting the Government's approach of merely including carbon emissions generated locally, we will notice that as revealed by the results of some overseas studies conducted in early years, the greenhouse gas emissions per capita in Hong Kong will rank seventh in the whole world. A research study undertaken by a local university shows that given Hong Kong peoples' love for meat in their diet, with the carbon emissions generated from the consumption of meat and dairy products taken into account, the actual amount of carbon emissions thus derived is 109 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent, which is more than double of the estimation made by the Government. Would it not be even more unlikely for us to attain an even more ambitious target of keeping the temperature increase below 1.5°C?

To be fair, it is a correct approach for the Government to focus its efforts in major sources of greenhouse gas emissions such as electricity generation, transport and handling of waste, and promote the increased use of natural gas by the two power companies, promote energy conservation and launch funds to encourage the transport sector to test out green and innovative transport technology. However, as policy measures are implemented in a piecemeal manner, they are not enough to bring about revolutionary changes in advancing low carbon goals in different social aspects, and their performance in achieving carbon reduction is unsatisfactory.

Deputy President, technology is basic for smart carbon reduction and addressing climate change. However, green technology has never been given due significance in Hong Kong. The environmental protection industry has not experienced much growth for years. It accounts for only 0.3% to 0.4% of the Gross Domestic Product over the past 10 years. The Government is now dedicated to developing Hong Kong into an international innovation and technology hub. Green technology is also one of the key areas for development of the Hong Kong Science and Technology Parks Corporation. But regrettably, LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4421 the relevant Policy Bureau has never designated green technology as a major area for research and development. To achieve low carbon development, we have to adopt a more proactive approach in promoting green technology first.

An example I can readily cite is the introduction of electric vehicles ("EVs"), which the Government has regarded as a key development area for promoting green economy as early as 20 years ago. An independent local project was implemented back then for the research and development of EVs, and it has even obtained certification from Europe. Nevertheless, due to insufficient funding for research and development and inadequate support from the Government, the products thus obtained were ultimately sold to overseas companies, and the project was concluded without any concrete results.

However, according to some recent reports, certain chambers of commerce consider it an opportunity now to develop new energy vehicles because they will be crucial for the development of a smart city. They are therefore planning to make reference to the intelligent technology of Germany, set up a factory in Hong Kong to serve as a research and development centre for EVs and self-driving vehicles, and have the products manufactured and even sold in the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area. Deputy President, this is a green economic opportunity that Hong Kong should not miss once again.

Apart from research and development efforts, Hong Kong is also lagging behind other places in the use of EVs. Transport is our second largest source of greenhouse gas emissions, and the amount of emissions in this respect has all along been maintained at a level of about 7.5 million tonnes over the past 10 years, with emissions from commercial vehicles accounting for 95% of vehicle air pollution. The Government has been promoting the use of EVs all these years through the introduction of tax concessions and the setting up of support funds, but it has failed to address the actual concerns of trade, such as the limited travel range of EVs, long charging time and insufficient public quick chargers. There are now over 13 000 buses running in Hong Kong, but only 42 of them are EVs, and there is only one electric taxi in the whole territory. Conversely, Shenzhen is the first place in the world where all buses running there are EVs, and there are as many as 20 000 electric taxis in the city.

Clean fuel should be used to provide electricity to EVs, but electricity generation is the largest source of greenhouse gas emissions in Hong Kong. In order to tackle the problem, consideration should be given to using renewable 4422 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 energy, which is a new trend in the global energy revolution. According to a report released by the United Nations, 70% of the electricity was generated with renewable energy in the net increase in global power generation last year. It was the year with the fastest growth in this respect. However, renewable energy only accounts for less than 1% in the energy mix of Hong Kong. It is estimated that the proportion will only increase by mere 4% in 2030 with energy potentials arising from wind, solar and waste-to-energy put together. Although the Government has introduced a feed-in tariff scheme, public response has been lukewarm because participants will have to make a huge investment to acquire the equipment, and the specifications for installation are also criticized as too stringent.

Nevertheless, according to research studies conducted by local universities, over 230 000 buildings in Hong Kong have been found suitable for installing a solar photovoltaic system, and the power thus generated would account for over 10% of our annual total electricity consumption, thereby reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 3 million tonnes. Yet, even with the popularization of renewable power generation, it would still take us seven years to have renewable energy resources integrated into the existing power grids, and to complete the installation of smart meters for all customers in the territory for better energy demand management and enhanced power generation efficiency. Should Hong Kong be more aggressive and proactive in releasing the potential of renewable energy?

Besides, Hong Kong should also work vigorously to develop a carbon trading system, under which economic means and market force can be used to promote carbon reduction. Under the pilot scheme implemented in China on carbon trading, the cumulative trading volume has amounted to over 200 million tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent in five years with a turnover of over $4.6 billion, and a national carbon emissions trading system was also commissioned last year.

Hong Kong is now playing a very limited role in this respect because we can only submit applications for carbon emissions trading with advanced countries via the Mainland. However, in the relevant studies conducted by the former Central Policy Unit, recommendations have already been made for Hong Kong to timely examine whether carbon trading should be used as a tool for carbon emissions reduction, and to have a greater extent of participation in carbon trading on the Mainland. The Hong Kong Exchanges and Clearing Limited also LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4423 pointed out in its studies that the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area held a leading position in the country in terms of the vitality and innovation of its financial transactions on carbon trading, and Hong Kong should strive to integrate into the national system on carbon finance to serve as a link to promote China's connectivity with the international carbon trading market and develop more carbon derivatives. All these are suggestions that the Government should follow up closely with a view to developing itself into a green finance hub and promoting carbon reduction.

Lastly, I would like to talk briefly about adaptation to climate change. With the damages brought by super typhoon Mangkhut to a large number of residential, public and commercial premises, wide public concern has been aroused about the adequacy of local infrastructure and our city design to withstand extreme weather, which may bring more severe floods and storm surges in the future. The incident has also exposed the fact that Hong Kong is still rather backward in the application of smart technology, and we have failed to make good use of the technology to respond to natural disasters. For example, though a simple thing to do, we have failed to collect environment data in various districts for dissemination of real time information. Smart devices are not available at our home to help keep out wind and rain either. The Government says that it will spend one and a half year to two years to complete a comprehensive assessment on the impacts of extreme weather on low-lying coastal areas. However, can residents in the disaster-stricken areas rest assured when they may possibly be faced with another even more powerful super typhoon in the coming year? I am afraid that the Government should work even harder and step up its efforts in this respect so that the general public and various sectors can genuinely rest assured.

Deputy President, climate change is a crisis faced by all mankind, and all of us must devote our full efforts and work together to alleviate the problem. I hereby call upon Members to support my motion. I so submit.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LIAO, please move your motion.

4424 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move that my motion be passed.

Mr Martin LIAO moved the following motion:

"That given the worsening problem of global climate change and the imminent crisis, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy."

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Mr Martin LIAO be passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Nine Members will move amendments to this motion. This Council will conduct a joint debate on the motion and the amendments.

I will call upon Members who will move the amendments to speak in the following order: Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Gary FAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Dr KWOK Ka-ki and Mr Kenneth LEUNG, but they may not move amendments at this stage.

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I thank Mr Martin LIAO for moving the original motion, which urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively and fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy. Members from different political parties and I have individually proposed amendments, totalling nine in all, illustrating that Members attach great importance to this motion.

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Deputy President, according to the Paris Agreement, national and regional parties are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years. Therefore, Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party by striving to reduce greenhouse gas emissions through a multi-pronged approach. As the Legislative Council Member representing the engineering sector and Chairman of the Hong Kong Green Strategy Alliance, together with committed industry players, I have always concerned myself with the sustainable development of Hong Kong, advised on environmental policies and measures, and urged the SAR Government to draw up plans and set clear targets and road maps in this regard.

It goes without saying that the relevant specific policies and measures must include advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture. As regards greenhouse gas emissions in Hong Kong, electricity generation accounts for about two thirds of total emissions and close to 90% of electricity is consumed in buildings. In other words, electricity consumed by buildings contributes to about 60% of Hong Kong's greenhouse gas emissions. The Administration has taken the lead in using more energy-efficient facilities in a number of government buildings, which has a certain incentive effect on the industry.

In 2013, the SAR Government set up the Steering Committee on the Promotion of Green Building to formulate strategies to promote green buildings. The so-called green building refers to a building practice that can minimize the impact of buildings on the environment, ensuring that efficient use of energy and other resources as well as minimization of waste and pollution can be achieved in various stages, from the identification of site, design, construction, management to maintenance. The Hong Kong Green Building Council also launched the HK3030 Campaign in 2013 to put forth a long-term proposal to reduce the electricity consumption of buildings in Hong Kong. Using the electricity consumption level of 2005 as the yardstick, it seeks to reduce the electricity consumption of buildings territory-wide by 30% by 2030.

In this regard, the District Cooling System ("DCS") implemented by the SAR Government at the Kai Tak Development is a very good pilot project. It consumes 35% and 20% less electricity as compared to traditional air-cooled air-conditioning systems and individual water-cooled air-conditioning systems 4426 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 using cooling towers respectively. The implementation of DCS will achieve estimated annual saving of 85 million kWh in electricity consumption, with a corresponding reduction of 59 500 tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions per annum. The project will be implemented in three phases, and the construction works were commenced in 2011. The Legislative Council Public Works Subcommittee ("PWSC") endorsed the funding proposal in early November this year for the remaining works under Phase III. I joined some PWSC members on 26 November to pay a site visit to understand the current operation of DCS facilities and the latest progress of the remaining construction works. DCS helps to develop Kowloon East as a green community, and the SAR Government can further improve and promote the system in the future.

In addition, I have repeatedly urged that, when implementing other new development areas, the Administration should conduct early planning for soft and hard infrastructure such as communications, pipe networks, smart homes and green architecture, and make proper planning on transport, health care, environmental protection, elderly services, etc. by using innovative technologies and big data, with a view to striving to create a green and low-carbon smart community. On 5 July this year, the Legislative Council discussed my motion on "Expediting the promotion of smart city development". Finally, the original motion was passed together with five amendments, and I am also glad to see that the Chief Executive has allocated an additional $500 million this year to promote smart city development.

Deputy President, the SAR Government should strive to promote the development and use of environmental protection technologies. I have noted that Mr Charles Peter MOK's amendment also urges the Administration to "promote the research and application of new green technologies to enhance energy efficiency, lower carbon emissions and reduce waste". In fact, the current-term Government is indeed more proactive in promoting innovation and technology than ever before. In her 2018 Policy Address, the Chief Executive announced that further to the $50 billion earmarked in last year's Budget, an additional $28 billion will be allocated for university research, re-industrialization, application of technology in public services and fostering of an enabling environment for innovation and technology, etc. I hold that the Administration should provide additional dedicated resources for environmental protection technologies to promote the setting up of a "centre for industrialization LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4427 and development of environmental protection technologies" to support the development of environmental protection technologies, vet new technologies, and promote cross-territory technology transfer and cooperation.

Furthermore, in order to implement the objectives set out in the Hong Kong Blueprint for Sustainable Use of Resources 2013-2022, the Administration should perfect supporting measures to implement the policy on "Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management". The Government should provide economic incentives for all practitioners in the recycling industry chain to promote the development of a circular economy. Mr KWOK Wai-keung's amendment also urges the Administration to provide dedicated tax and land concessions, etc. to attract more green industries to develop business in Hong Kong. In addition, the Government should also support the industry in improving the logistic network for recycling activities. Regarding the Municipal Solid Waste Charging Scheme to be introduced by the Government, various sectors of the community are very concerned about whether the relevant supporting measures are properly in place. If they are not, there will be a surge in illegal dumping of refuse, leaving the city awash in garbage.

Deputy President, Hong Kong should also draw on the experience of other regions to actively promote the use of clean and renewable energy. The European Union has set the target that by 2020, 10% of the energy used by land transport should be renewable, such as biodiesel, electricity and light fuel batteries. In this connection, I have repeatedly suggested to the Administration that, on the one hand, it should formulate expeditiously a long-term energy supply strategy so as to identify a cleaner fuel mix that can respond flexibly to future environmental changes; on the other hand, it should encourage the industry to improve the recycling system for used cooking oil, as well as the production and marketing channels of biodiesel in Hong Kong. The Government should also enhance its green procurement policy and take the lead in using biodiesel. However, I do not agree to arbitrarily setting a target year for the prohibition of sale of fuel-engined private cars, as proposed in Mr HUI Chi-fung's amendment, given that the supporting facilities for electric vehicles are not yet well developed.

Deputy President, along with the globalization of economy, all of us living under the same sky should effectively cope with climate change. Naturally, instead of fight alone, Hong Kong should promote regional cooperation. The SAR Government should speed up the implementation of the Regional 4428 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Co-operation Plan on Building a Quality Living Area jointly announced by Guangdong, Hong Kong and Macao in June 2012, as a concrete initiative to promote the development of the Greater Bay Area. The relevant government departments and industries in the Greater Bay Area should tap into collective wisdom, establish a good social-ecological system, set up a high-level regional environmental cooperation committee, draw up a mutually beneficial win-win collaboration plan, and jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster.

Deputy President, regarding Mr Gary FAN's amendment, which suggests that the Administration should stop the construction of artificial islands through reclamation to prevent sand dredging from damaging the natural environment and further increasing carbon emissions, I cannot associate myself with it because nowadays reclamation projects already feature a number of environmental protection technologies. For example, the deep cement mixing method adopted for the airport's three-runway project can mitigate the environmental impacts. During reclamation, it is certainly necessary to factor in the challenges presented by extreme weather and enhance the defensive measures for coping with weather changes through works design and technologies.

Deputy President, with these remarks, I urge Members to support my amendment.

MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, here, I wish to thank Mr Martin LIAO for proposing a motion on climate change for our debate at this appropriate moment.

Why would I say that it is the right time to propose this motion? The reason is that the 24th Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (COP 24) is now being held in Poland. On the first day of the conference, Sir David ATTENBOROUGH, a British naturalist and renowned broadcaster, represented the world's people in addressing the attending delegates from various countries. The following is what he stated in his speech, "Right now we are facing a man-made disaster of global scale, our greatest threat in thousands of years: climate change. If we don't take action, the collapse of our civilizations and the extinction of much of the natural world is on the horizon."

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4429

Perhaps, some people are still skeptical about this. Well, there are still people like this in this world. In their view, the oft-mentioned subject of climate change is just an exaggeration that everyone keeps repeating. These people still doubt whether it is true. Yes, this kind of people does exist. On the other hand, there are some people who know full well that climate change is a hard fact, but turn a blind eye to it because of short-termism. Some people, perhaps, have noticed that the weather becomes increasingly extreme, with summers getting hotter, winters coming later, glaciers melting, and the sea level rising, but still they may think that climate change is far too remote for them to worry about. But the fact is that the effects of climate change are proven by scientific evidence and the environment of our planet Earth is actually being affected. The melting of glaciers, the unprecedented rising of sea level and the flooding of low-lying areas are what Hong Kong is facing also.

The rise in global temperature has contributed to more frequent extreme weather. What struck Hong Kong the most was the onslaught of Typhoon Mangkhut. Climate change has also affected the ecosystem. With the changes in climate, migration becomes necessary for many animals and this has upset the ecological balance, affecting the harvest of crops, our food, and the growth of animals and plants. In the end, people's health will also be affected.

Probably, some people may consider what I just described not quite relevant to them, thinking that it is something which only happens in some more remote places. To Hong Kong people, typhoons, heatwaves and suchlike are the very weather conditions that they have deeper impression. But in fact, none of us in Hong Kong can be an outsider in this globalized world.

There is one thing I wish to emphasize with my amendments this time in respect of this high-sounding topic we often discuss: actually, every one of us can do something against climate change with our personal behaviours. The United Nations has made some specific suggestions about what each one of us can do to combat climate change, such as minimizing driving, walking more, biking more, recycling more, reusing things, etc. All these are actions at a personal level that members of the public can do.

The very reason for me to propose the following points in the amendment is that I hope the Secretary can note―as I have said on various occasions―that the goal of the environmental policy against climate change is not only to deal with the matter which is the most significant, I mean, the most serious in 4430 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 numbers. I believe that later on, the Secretary will make mention of the efforts made in the past, but those are nothing more than the amendments made to the emission control requirements for ocean-going vessels, the food waste plant which is under construction, recycling, and the use of renewable energy. Most of these are things that members of the public are unable to use, change and feel at a personal level. In contrast, the following suggestions I proposed in the amendment are precisely about enabling public participation through legislation and policies. By changing some of our behaviours, the situation of climate change can be improved.

Among the specific proposals I made, one is about designating bicycles as a mode of transport and formulating a bicycle-friendly policy. Needless to say, bicycles produce zero carbon and zero emission, whereas other modes of transport, except walking, are unable to achieve zero carbon and zero emission.

Last year in this Chamber, I proposed a motion on introducing a bicycle-friendly policy by the Government for debate. As stated in the Government's opening remarks during the debate, the remarks made by you too, Secretary, "the incumbent Government has clearly positioned cycling as a short-distance transport mode". Then, you also added a few words, saying that "bicycles have long since been regarded as a green mode of transport by the Government rather than for recreational purposes only". Actually, this is an anachronistic view. Why is cycling only a mode of transport for short-distance commute? That aside, you stated that on the premise of ensuring road safety, the Government had adopted a prudent approach and would not encourage the public to use bicycles as a mode of commuting on busy roads in the urban areas.

Secretary, are we really that anachronistic? Many advanced cities in Europe or around the world have already had cycling highways, and their cycle tracks can connect one city to another. They have no problem putting in place a cycling system on top of the busy roads in the cities, fitting it perfectly into the transport network of their cities while ensuring safety. Why does the Government still refuse to encourage commuting by cycling? The motion I proposed last year, "Formulating a bicycle-friendly policy and designating bicycles as a mode of transport", was passed unanimously by the Legislative Council, and it also encouraged people to commute by bicycles in urban and rural districts, so as to reduce carbon emissions.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4431

Next, I would like to talk about renewable energy. The Government says that it is going to develop renewable energy such as wind energy and solar energy which may potentially support 3% to 4% of the total electricity consumption in Hong Kong. But a look at the many figures provided by academic institutes or green groups will tell us that the efforts we made are still not sufficient. The Government has introduced Feed-in Tariff into the Scheme of Control Agreements that it entered into with CLP Power Hong Kong Limited and the Hongkong Electric Company Limited. While it is a good measure, how many participants can there be? This takes us back to my earlier point about participation at a personal level. The measure concerned only allows the participation of those living in public housing estates and single-block buildings, but some studies tell us that 75% of the buildings across the territories, in terms of the usable areas of their tops or roofs, are suitable for the installation of a solar photovoltaic ("PV") system or solar PV panels, and they can generate 4.6 billion kWh of electricity per year, which is equivalent to 10% of the annual total electricity consumption of Hong Kong. Can we adopt a more aggressive approach? As I pointed out before, the Government can actually introduce a policy to encourage the owners' corporations of single-block buildings to install solar PV panels, and anyway, it is not something that only single-block buildings can do.

Concerning specific policies, my amendment has also proposed setting a target year for the prohibition of sale of fuel-engined private cars. I am aware that the Government has amended its wording in the Policy Address, stating that "[it has] the hope that all newly registered private cars in Hong Kong will eventually be new energy vehicles in the long run". Please note that the Government has used the word "hope" rather than "the Government's objective". If the Government regards that as its objective, I would like to ask Secretary WONG Kam-sing to explain a little about it. Speaking about "objective", places around the world, for example, the United Kingdom, Paris in France, and Norway, have already set their target years (between 2025 and 2040) for commencing the prohibition of sale of conventional fuel-engined private cars. My proposal is neither radical nor aggressive. All I advocate is the prohibition of the sale of fuel-engined private cars, but not the driving of these cars on the road. It is only about prohibiting the registration of new fuel-engined private cars. This is the way to demonstrate to vehicle manufacturers and the public the Government's commitment on emission reduction and carbon reduction.

4432 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

I have mentioned in my amendment that there should be formulation of a legislative timetable to ban the use of disposable plastic tableware and straws, and to ban the sale of products containing microplastics. These are the very measures enabling the public to have a direct experience as I just mentioned. When they go to a restaurant, they will not be provided with any drinking straw or disposable plastic cutlery. They can then personally improve the problem of climate change. Even if the Government consults the business sector on these measures, it will not face a backlash from them. Well, the Government may ask Mr Tommy CHEUNG about this later. So why does the Government fail to implement these measures and state that it needs to conduct further studies for one to two years?

The last point I wish to made is about the producer responsibility scheme. Many people are indignant that they are required to pay waste charges upon the implementation of municipal solid waste charging by the Government because there is some waste which they cannot avoid, for example, the huge plastic packaging that comes with an item they purchased. If the Government draws up a legislative timetable and enact legislation mandating that producers pay charges for the packaging of their products and the waste produced, I believe the public will be less resentful when the Government launches municipal solid waste charging. These are short-term measures that the public can see and can get involved in, and I urge Secretary WONG Kam-sing to give priority to their implementation so that there can be immediate carbon reduction in response to climate change.

As my speaking time is running out, I will stop here for now. I so submit. Thank you, Deputy President.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I thank Mr Martin LIAO for moving this motion, which is closely related to people's livelihood and the sustainable development of Hong Kong.

My amendment mainly proposes that the Government should establish a $2 billion "green industries development fund", provide tax and land concessions, etc., nurture a pool of talents for green industries, and formulate contingency measures for handling disasters and arrangements for suspension of work after disasters. As regards the protection of employees, I will leave it to several Members from the labour sector to express their views. I focus my discussion on the development of green industries.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4433

Deputy President, global climate change is indeed evident to all. Extreme weather is getting more and more common. After Hato swept through Hong Kong last year, we thought it was over, but in less than a year―exactly one year, to be precise―i.e. this year, Mangkhut followed to rip through Hong Kong with overwhelming momentum. Of course, thankfully we have not suffered heavy casualties. However, in fact, the overall cityscape and some road facilities have been greatly damaged and not yet been fully restored.

Deputy President, is it that the Government has done nothing? We expect that the Secretary will certainly give an account on what he has done. I might as well tell Members that it will include the plastic bag levy, regulated electrical equipment, increased ratio of natural gas in electricity generation, and earlier-mentioned municipal solid waste charging. However, in retrospect, every item is, to be honest, essentially a matter of money, and all the costs are directly borne by the public. After all, should the Government take some actions instead of relying solely on levies? I believe there are alternatives, but why has the Government not come up with any ideas?

The simplest example is the problem of light pollution, which we have been pointing out for many years. In fact, we very much hope that the business community can also play a part. Not only the general public should reduce emissions, but the business sector should also take the initiative to do so. However, the Government has created a public impression that it is biased in favour of the business community. It has done too little to force the business community to do what they should, or has been too tolerant of them. In fact, we all know that Hong Kong is known as the "Pearl of the Orient", but do we agree that this "Pearl of the Orient" should be lit up from dawn till dusk, or should it be lit up just to the necessary extent?

Deputy President, why am I so long-windedly discussing the $2 billion "green industries development fund", rather than referring to sponge cities as Dr Elizabeth QUAT did, talking about "plastic-free" as Mr HUI Chi-fung did, or proposing a wide variety of detailed and specific projects as other Members did? I wish to stress here that I propose the $2 billion "green industries development fund" with the principal aim of altering the Government's attitude towards the environmental industry, namely that the producers or users should pay for the disposal. Currently, as every member of the public is a user, the Government has every reason to levy charges on them.

4434 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

However, the point at issue is that our expectations from the Government are not limited to that. Quite simply, as we all remember, the Mainland put a halt to importing garbage or tightened restrictions thereon a few years ago, leading to accumulation of recovered plastic in Hong Kong with no way out. Why was there such a problem? It was because our waste would only be exported if not dumped in landfills. The question is: why is there no relevant technology to deal with it locally or solution towards local digestion of the waste? We should deal with it on our own without relying too heavily on other places, or else if they tighten the restrictions, we will lose the upstream outlets and then the recovery downstream will be of little significance no matter how well it goes.

Deputy President, in retrospect, over so many years, the Government has mainly told everyone to reduce waste, that is, to use less and dump less. The question is: the real waste producers are those manufacturers of goods, but what has the Government done to them? Has it regulated their excessive packaging? At present, when we buy a piece of fruit from a supermarket, it comes with a tray underneath and a cling film on top, which cost as low as several tens of cents, but when we dispose of them, there may be another charge. However, do the supermarkets or manufacturers need to bear these charges? They do not. The charges will only be borne by consumers, so they go further with their wasteful practice by adding more exquisite packaging. Is this necessary? How should we deal with it?

Deputy President, after all, I think there are two main reasons why the local measures are ineffective in finding a way out for these wastes: first, we are overly reliant on other neighbouring places; second, we are overly reliant on market forces. That is to say, if opportunities arise to make money by exporting some wastes, the market forces will take their natural course, and the Government just needs to offer a bit of support, subsidy or encouragement to enable profit-making from selling recyclable materials. All the while, the Government has set its eyes only on money. It will not do anything that causes a loss. The thing is, we are faced with a situation in which we have to do something even if it causes a loss. We cannot just think about making money or not, otherwise we will leave many things undone.

In addition, Members, for example Mr Martin LIAO, have also mentioned the overall emission reduction targets, which we believe need to be set. In my personal view, since Hong Kong is already devoid of manufacturing, the pressure LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4435 on our overall economy due to the emission reduction targets set by the Government should not be so great as that on some places with manufacturing industries.

Another question is whether our entire environmental industry is advanced enough. At present, we emphasize the need to catch up, as many things remain undone. The problem is, if we are like … Although more incidents have happened to MTR Corporation Limited recently, as far as railway management is concerned, Hong Kong is actually exporting services to different places, helping others to manage railways. This is our technological achievement, but can we accomplish the same in environmental protection? Is it feasible for us to secure our own management model, technologies and achievements, and then export such technologies altogether to assist other places? It certainly is, but the problem is that at present we do not even have this kind of talent, nor equipment and sufficient resources. That is exactly why I have stressed the need to set up a "green industries development fund".

Furthermore, the value added of Hong Kong's environmental industry in 2016 was about $8.4 billion, accounting for just a tiny 0.3% share of the gross domestic product. Despite an annual growth of 6.7%, the employee population in the industry was about 44 300 in the same year, representing 1.3% of the total employment in Hong Kong. In the whole economic system, $8.4 billion is a small fraction, and so is the number of employees. They are mingy, so to speak. In fact, as often said, we have so much waste that its per-capita quantity is higher than those of Japan and Taiwan. Why, on the contrary, is our input into the green industries not the highest? No matter in terms of manpower, talent or resources, why is our input not the highest, but the least? This aspect deserves our deep thought.

Moreover, what does Hong Kong abound in? High-rise buildings. In fact, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok also mentioned earlier on that we should go further and do more with green buildings, because nowadays high technology is the name of the game and there is no exception when it comes to maintenance. If we can push ahead on this front, I believe it will also represent a good opportunity for the industry.

Lastly, I would like to talk about how many resources the Government is willing to put in. Currently, everything is chargeable, but how many resources has the Government put in? To take the waste charging as an example, the 4436 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Government says it will put in $300 million to $400 million a year, but is it enough? Can it, as we said, give an overall push to upstream-level talent and technical training for our green industries, and achieve that with projects dedicated to specific disciplines? Believing there are still a lot to be done in this regard, I hope that today's motion enjoys the support of all Members and that we can play an early part for the future and environmental protection of Hong Kong.

Thank you, Deputy President.

MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, the Government always stresses the need to develop a smart city and a smart environment. Apart from bringing convenience to people in their daily life with the use of innovation and technology, another purpose is to improve their living standard. Various Members have already elaborated on how to optimize technological application to improve the living environment and reduce human damage to the environment. This is also a top priority around the world.

In overseas countries, improving the environment with the use of technology is not a new policy. And, the development of a smart city is also a global trend. All this can effectively reduce resource depletion and foster sustainable development, while also raising cities' liveability and their overall competitiveness. I for one certainly hope that the Government can truly integrate innovation and technology with green concepts, so as to promote a low-carbon lifestyle and mitigate climate change.

My amendment raises two main points, including optimizing the use of data in reviewing policy effectiveness, and supporting the development and application of green technologies under the Government's lead. Development and application are very important. Despite the Government's repeated talks about developing various technologies through scientific research, it has adamantly rejected their application.

Waste handling is a case in point. As pointed out by the Environment Bureau in its latest waste statistic report, the average waste disposal volume among people in 2016 hit a record high in 23 years, and the per capita waste disposal volume was 1.41 kg per day. Have other places resorted to technologies to promote waste recovery? In the case of Taiwan, for example, it LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4437 began to implement an iTrash system this year for waste collection on a 24-hour basis and waste recovery. While waste disposal and waste collection have become more convenient for people and garbage collectors respectively, the system also offers an incentive to promote waste recovery. People may dispose of waste cans or plastic bottles at an iTrash station anytime and earn some money based on their recycling prices, without having to accumulate a certain volume of such waste at home before doing so. Records show that 800 people have used the system during its three months' trial run, and it has collected 2 000 kg of waste, 20 000 plastic bottles and 8 000 aluminium cans. Taiwan's example is desirable because this smart trash bin project is jointly operated by the Department of Information Technology and the Department of Environmental Protection of the Taipei City Government and a private enterprise. This is a full manifestation of interdepartmental collaboration and public-private partnership.

In Hong Kong, we can also find some examples showing start-ups' efforts in developing green technologies, including the development of energy conservation for buildings, environmental solutions, alternative energies, waste management and recovery, electric vehicles, and even carbon audits for infrastructure projects and green electronic products. Nevertheless, the Government should be more proactive in trying out those green technology products and services developed by local start-ups. Apart from improving the environment, this can also create business opportunities for the relevant industries and enable them to open up overseas markets.

Actually, green technology is one of the five major development domains in the Hong Kong Science Park ("the Science Park"). As we noticed recently, various companies on the market intend to install automatic water dispensers or reverse vending machines for waste plastic containers. All these devices are not equipped with particularly advanced technologies. But they can honestly facilitate waste recovery among people and offer a stronger incentive, so that people can get used to waste recovery.

What are those start-ups that are groomed in the Science Park doing? Some examples include the development of energy management software. Users may monitor the power consumption of various apparatuses through different sensors that are connected to devices such as electricity meters. The system can also generate reports to enable system administrators to monitor the situation at a glance and then conceive ways to reduce the relevant expenses and 4438 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 power consumption in the long run. Besides, some companies also provide follow-through services for solar power generation solutions, in a bid to promote the use of renewable energies.

Speaking of energy management, I must point out that a place with very high power consumption in the industry is data centres. Data centres honestly and inevitably consume a great deal of electricity. Therefore, many companies are willing to adopt greener measures to reduce power consumption and in turn save some money for their companies. Many Hong Kong companies or overseas companies (especially the latter) have resorted to the extensive use of solar energy as a power source for their data centres. But in Hong Kong, there are many constraints in this respect. As I was told by a company a few years ago, even though solar panels can be mounted on the topside of parking spaces in industrial estates to absorb sunlight as a source of energy, the Government has laid down many requirements, such as those concerning the plot ratio. Upon computation, they realized that the Government seemingly did not encourage them to install such panels.

(THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

Apart from energy management, resource consumption in works projects actually can also be reduced with the use of technology. During my visit to Britain in September this year, I met with an entrepreneur based in London. I learned that they now conducted data analysis on, for example, tunnel works through various tiny wireless sensors they had installed. This can help to enhance the efficiency of infrastructural works and reduce energy consumption in the works process.

Over the past 20 years, the number of vehicles in Hong Kong has increased by 1.5 times to 800 000. While they are the main culprit of air pollution in various districts, traffic congestion has likewise come to impede the health of many Hong Kong people. Obviously, electric vehicles can be a helpful tool to us. But speaking of the electric vehicle policy, the Government has merely paid lip service to encouraging environmental protection, and the policy often runs counter to this very objective. As a result, many motorists have turned to buy LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4439 fuel-driven vehicles, especially during last year. The policy not only has failed to fulfil the Government's avowed intention of containing the growth of private cars; it has instead intensified environmental pollution in reality.

President, when I chatted with others recently, it occurred to me that I could actually compile a book on the Government's pretexts for inaction. One example is precisely the setting of a target year for banning the sale of fuel-driven vehicles as proposed by Mr HUI Chi-fung. The ground put forth by the Government is really "convincing". They say that as Hong Kong is not an automobile production region, they worry that no company will sell any vehicles to Hong Kong if the sale of fuel-driven vehicles is banned. They can even give us such a ridiculous reason. A compilation of their pretexts can honestly serve as an amusement for people.

As also pointed out in the part on a smart environment in the Hong Kong Smart City Blueprint, the application of technology can promote the use of renewable energies and smart water meters, and also energy conservation in buildings. It also proposes the use of more sensors for monitoring air pollution, the level of cleanliness in the streets and public places, rubbish bins and recycling bins.

Data can certainly be collected with the application of more sensors. But we must also show concern about privacy protection. The Governments of many places have devoted vigorous efforts to taking forward many projects that are geared to the development of a massive smart city. One example is the Canadian Government. It has implemented a massive project called "Quayside" in the eastern part of Toronto in cooperation with Google. But the project has aroused people's concern about privacy protection. I do not intend to go into the details here. But I wish to point out that last year, many high-ranking staff members in charge of this project left their posts one after another. Therefore, I must alert the authorities to data security and privacy protection in the course of opening up the data of the relevant projects.

Lastly, I wish to say that it is easy to talk about the integration of technology with environmental protection and a sustainable lifestyle. But how should such integration be materialized? I hope to use the examples I mentioned earlier to encourage the Government to take active steps to enhance local start-ups' efforts of developing and applying green technologies, and also data 4440 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 collection and analysis. One example is the forthcoming solid waste levy. How should the authorities collect data and improve policy effectiveness? Besides, the Government should likewise continue to foster the opening up of data relating to the environment, so that developers and researchers in the community can use the relevant data.

MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): President, today, Members of different political parties and groups will move an amendment. It shows that climate change is a serious crisis facing human society and this subject concerns the survival of all species on earth. I will move an amendment to Mr Martin LIAO's motion because I want to clearly state the seriousness of the problem and point out what society and the Government can do.

The first key point I wish to stress is that global warming is intensifying at a speed faster than we think. According to the assessment made by the World Meteorological Organization, 2016 is the hottest year on record; and the top 20 warmest years on record took place in the past 22 years with the years from 2015 to 2018 being the top four warmest years in history. The average global temperature of the first 10 months of 2018 is 0.98°C higher than that of the years from 1850 to 1900. The rising temperature has speeded up the melting of glacial ice. The ice sheets in Arctic Ocean and Antarctica have been shrinking and there are signs that they will be shrinking at an even greater speed. In the summer of 2012, the extent of sea ice at North Pole fell to a record low in history, covering only 4.10 million sq km, which is 78% less than the coverage in 1979.

The melting of ice sheets and glaciers at an expedited speed have caused the sea level to rise. The warm sea water have fuelled stronger typhoons. Hong Kong faces an unprecedented threat because of its waterfront location. Hong Kong was hit squarely by super typhoons Hato last year and Mangkhut this year. The storm surge induced by Hato and Mangkhut raised the sea level to 3.57 m and 3.88 m respectively, which are only lower than the sea level at the time of typhoon Wanda in 1962. These typhoons caused serious damage to coastal areas including Heng Fa Chuen, Lei Yue Mun and Tseung Kwan O, which is where I live. The city was in a state of destruction and desolation like the scene in the movie The Day After Tomorrow. I believe Hong Kong people still vividly remember it. When the melting of ice speeds up and the sea level LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4441 continues to rise, I believe the record storm surge set by Wanda will soon be replaced. And the life and property of the people living in the coastal areas may be seriously damaged.

The second key point I wish to stress is that climate change is caused by human activities. The burning of fossil fuels, logging and reclamation have increased the concentration of greenhouse gases and trapped more heat on earth. Now, the concentration of atmospheric carbon dioxide is the highest in past 800 000 years. Even more worrying is that global carbon dioxide emissions have been increasing rather than decreasing. According to a report by the Global Carbon Project, global carbon dioxide emissions in 2018 are expected to rise by 2.7% than the level in 2017, hitting an all-time high. The two major carbon dioxide emission countries, China and the United States, are expected to emit 4.6% and 2.5% more carbon dioxides respectively. Many scientists find the goal set by the Paris Agreement in 2015 of lowering emissions and slowing down global warming almost hopeless to reach.

Humans must have a clear understanding of and a serious rethink on the present economy which encourages excessive production and spending as well as the way of living which constantly increases carbon emissions and pollution and aggravates climate change. Humans are the ones that destroy the planet. We cannot afford to wait until climate change has reached the point of no return to regret why we did not do a rethink or make remedies sooner. We need to admit that humans are the culprit that destroys the environment, so that they will act responsibly and avoid doing any further harm to the natural environment.

So, the third key point in my amendment is that if Hong Kong is to combat climate change, we must stop the reclamation for constructing artificial islands through, especially the reclamation project of constructing the 1 700-hectare artificial islands under the Lantau Tomorrow Vision. It is estimated that the reclamation project will need 260 million cu m of sea sand. Reclamation needs fill materials which are obtained by cutting hills or dredging sea or river beds. Not only will this damage the marine habitats in Hong Kong but also the habitats in other places. For instance, some of the fill materials for the third airport runway are taken from a sand mine in Xinhui of Guangdong Province. Some media reports show that the mountains and forest in the area are changed beyond recognition, and the vibration and noise generated from rock blasting and mining works have created serious nuisances to the people living in the vicinity.

4442 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Reclamation projects around the world have snapped up sea sand and pushed up its prices, causing cost overruns of the projects. Moreover, the sea beds, rivers beds and beaches where sands are sourced are completely destroyed. The river courses are altered, coastlines receded and water clouded. Sand pump dredgers which dredge sand and rocks from sea beds and dump rocks back to the sea kill benthic organisms living in the sand and in turn threaten the viability of larger fishes. This will affect the food chain and create an ecological disaster, not to mention the fishermen who will be plunged into financial hardship for losing their fish catch.

Moreover, with the diminishing supply of sand which will push up its price, future reclamation projects may have to use more polluted crushed sand, which is sand-sized particles obtained by crushing gravels with a grinding machine. In the production process, lots of microscopic rock powder is produced which suspends in the sea water and does not subside. This is a cause of pollution. The sand-washing procedure can take away the rock powder, but this process will also seriously pollute the rivers in the vicinity of rock factories. Hence, reclamation projects will create multiple and irreversible damages to both the reclamation sites and the dredging sites.

The fill materials for reclamation will have to be transported all the way from the Mainland and Southeast Asia. The amount of carbon dioxide emitted during the transportation process is enormous. The further away the dredging site from Hong Kong, the greater amount of carbon dioxide will be created. This will further worsen climate change. Hence, reclamation is a highly polluting and unsustainable works project that has high emissions and irreparable damages.

Even if the artificial islands are constructed, it is still questionable whether they can withstand the extreme weather. In September this year, severe typhoon Jebi hit Japan and inundated the runway of Kansai Airport which is built on an artificial island, turning the airport into a deserted island. With the melting of ice and snow faster than we expect and the emission of greenhouse gases increasing rather than decreasing, I believe the sea level will rise at a magnitude exceeding our imagination. No matter how magnificent the artificial islands are built, they may still be seriously damaged if they are hit by another super typhoon like Mangkhut, posing greater threats to the life and property of the residents living on the islands. The SAR Government has failed to identify the harm of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4443 climate change and hastily formulated the plan to construct the artificial islands by reclamation and called on the public to support the plan. This act of the Government is indeed very irresponsible.

Hence, the last point in my amendment, which is the fourth key point, says that the SAR Government has the absolute duty to promote environmental justice and formulate more proactive policies, including setting the target of carbon dioxide reduction in the long-term decarbonization strategies, which are yet to be released, at 80% at least by 2050. According to the Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C issued by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change of the United Nations in October, if we want to limit global warming within 1.5°C, we must reduce global carbon dioxide emissions by 45% from the 2010 levels and reach net zero around 2050.

If we do not set out more aggressive targets and policies, such as actively promoting the use of renewable resources, we may witness in our lifetime the transformation of the planet into a "hot globe" and more disasters such as hot waves, super typhoons, volcanic eruptions due to extreme temperatures, food and water shortage, disappearance of coral reefs and extinction of animals and plants. And Hong Kong cannot stay away from these disasters.

President, since other Members' amendments have also mentioned other specific measures, I have narrowed down my speech and emphasized only (The buzzer sounded) …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr FAN, please stop.

MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): I so submit.

MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): President, when I heard that Mr Martin LIAO was going to introduce this motion, I recalled what happened in 2003 when the Government was trying to legislate on Article 23 of the Basic Law. Back then, the Democratic Alliance for the Betterment and Progress of Hong Kong had a slogan: "There can be no home without the country", but I was thinking the other way round. When the country immediately has the National Security Law of the People's Republic of China enacted before individual rights are properly protected, is it tantamount to placing the cart before the horse?

4444 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Today, I am surely in support of Mr Martin LIAO's original motion, because if our earth is lost, how can we have a country or even a home? Nobody can survive anymore. However, even though we know that this is a very serious problem affecting everyone, in practice, it fails to draw public attention. I have particularly made a search in the Chinese newspapers, but found that nothing is said about today's motion debate relating to climate change. In my view, the Government has to think about it. Is this situation really what the Government likes to see? When no one in the entire community exerts pressure on the Government to consider carefully about the policies and targets to deal with this important issue, the Government's introduction of the East Lantau artificial island programme makes us think that this kind of targets in 20, 30 or 40 years' time are actually very unrealistic. If the Government really understands where the problem lies, it should enhance the crisis awareness of the whole community, so that people know why typhoon Mangkhut was so devastating, why our winters are getting warmer, and know that the entire community needs to think of a solution to the problem. In my opinion, first of all, we need to make the community understand the importance of the issue, and there is nothing more important than that.

Secondly, I notice that many recommendations in the amendments are related to policies. The policy-related recommendations in the amendments to the motion are just like presents hanging onto the Christmas tree. I reckon that before the policy-related recommendations are hung onto the original motion, we need to clarify our target and position. On the issue of global warming, where are we and what target do we need? Why are the colleagues and I keep on mentioning the Special Report on Global Warming of 1.5°C ("the Report") published by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in October this year? Because first of all, we need positioning. We need to know, from scientific studies, the limit or the acceptable level of global average temperature rise in order to curb global warming. The Report points out that an increase of 2°C is already an unacceptable level, and so we are striving for limiting the temperature rise to 1.5°C. According to the Report of the United Nations, the period from 2018 to 2030 is critical, because if the target cannot be nearly half achieved during this period of time, which is reducing absolute carbon emissions by 45% as just mentioned by Mr Gary FAN, it will be very difficult for us to achieve zero carbon emission by 2025.

As regards this problem, first of all, I would like to clarify two issues with the public. Firstly, there are some problems with the indicator currently adopted by the Hong Kong Government in evaluating the reduction of carbon emissions. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4445

At present, the Hong Kong Government mainly adopts the evaluation indicator used in Beijing which is called "carbon intensity", as measured in terms of carbon dioxide emissions per unit of GDP, or the amount of carbon dioxide emissions in the production of one unit of GDP. As we can imagine, despite a speedy reduction in the proportion of carbon intensity, if our GDP grows rapidly, in reality, our gross carbon emissions will not be reduced, and this is precisely the situation of Hong Kong over the past decade. According to the statistics of the Government, from 2005 to 2016, our carbon intensity has already been reduced by 32%, whereas there was not much reduction in gross carbon emissions. Therefore, if we continue to adopt carbon intensity as our indicator, this is somewhat self-deceptive.

Secondly, in respect of the target by 2030, the Government has already changed the reduction in carbon intensity into the reduction in absolute carbon emissions. Let us look at a chart. Our present level of carbon emissions is about 40-odd million tonnes per year. If the Government's target is to reduce absolute carbon intensity by 36% by 2030, our level of carbon emissions has to be less than 30 million tonnes. But this figure is still not enough. The United Nations announced that we have to reduce carbon emissions by 50% by 2030, which means we have to reduce to nearly 20 million tonnes of carbon emissions per year, and by 2050, it will be zero emission.

If we believe in science or believe in the words of scientists, in order to reach this target, the Government should not set some self-deceptive targets. In my amendment, one very significant part is asking the Government to revise, in the light of the recommendations set out in the latest Report of the United Nations, the emission reduction target from reducing carbon intensity by 65% to 70% by 2030 to reducing absolute carbon emissions by 50% by 2030. This is a decision that we must make at present, because according to the Paris Agreement, the SAR Government has to submit in 2020 a target on further reduction of emissions. I hope that Secretary WONG Kam-sing, if he is still wearing the same hat then, can lead us to set a target which is genuinely in line with the target of the latest scientific study.

In order to meet this target, I specifically put forward three policy directions. Firstly, in terms of energy, the SAR Government has conservatively pointed out that Hong Kong has about 3% to 4% of realizable renewable energy potentials that can be exploited between now and 2030. However, all other countries have about 20% to 30% of realizable renewable energy potentials. I 4446 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 hope that the percentage of total generating capacity to be met by renewable energy sources can be raised. Secondly, as transport accounts for 10% of carbon emissions, I hope that the growth in the number of private cars can be curbed, while the city centres of different districts can be pedestrianized to encourage people to use bicycles, and this is the overall major direction. Thirdly, making reference to the practice of many cities and countries around the world, the Government should consider levying a progressive carbon tax, so that while we have resources to respond to this problem, the disadvantaged groups can also obtain greater support in coping with climate change.

I shall first stop it here and will add more information in due course.

DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, I thank Mr Martin LIAO for moving this motion. This is a very important issue to Hong Kong or even to the world. Some people claim that global climate change is a conspiracy. But scientists have provided many scientific data supporting that the rapid warming of the global climate is the result of human activities. Over the past decade or so, I have been promoting green and low-carbon living. In recent years, I also advocated the development of a smart city.

Actually, a lot has been done on this around the world. For example, Singapore advocates its development into a smart country; Copenhagen strives to become a zero-emission city in 2025; and South Korea focuses on innovation. But if we look at Hong Kong, we definitely have not done enough in combating global climate change. Hence, I put forth nine proposals or viewpoints in my amendment. Due to the limited time, I will only go through each of them briefly, and I welcome the Secretary to spend more time on discussing with me in detail.

The first point is very important, and that is to set a specific target and timetable. To develop Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart city, we must have a strategy and a target, including an action plan and a timetable. We need to have a clear idea of our present situation and also of the future situation that we should transform into. I hold that the timetable and the target can guide us to proceed forward.

Second, we have discussed for years how to promote the optimal use of green technologies and the development of green industries, but the progress is not satisfactory. I know many research and development ("R&D") teams in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4447

Hong Kong, as well as start-ups and universities here. Many of them are very interested in developing green technologies, but they say that there is not enough resources and no long-term vision. The Electrical and Mechanical Services Department recently launched a new scheme for priority and trial use by start-ups, so as to provide them with a long-term vision and promote the development of green technology industries. I think this is very important. Moreover, the Government has lots of statistical information on Hong Kong, including information on the environment, such as statistics related to air quality, water quality, pollution and waste. Many R&D teams hope that the Government can expeditiously make these Big Data available for public use. This will help them to further develop their R&D projects.

The third point is to promote green and low-carbon buildings as well as energy efficiency and conservation. The Government has been actively promoting energy efficiency and conservation over recent years. We certainly hope that the Government can take its work to the next level and try new endeavours in its promotion of renewable energy. In my opinion, the Government has made no progress in promoting green and low-carbon buildings. I do not think the Government is determined enough in this regard, although the construction industry has put in some serious effort along this direction. I hold that government buildings should meet green and low-carbon standards, but at present, the buildings do not quite meet these standards. I hope the Government will work harder on this.

President, regarding the city's greening ratio and vertical greening, we know that past greening master plans have already focused on the greening work in the city, but this is not enough. We hope that the Government can do a better job. Green buildings can reduce the use of air-conditioning and lower energy consumption, thereby reducing the heat island effect; they can prolong the life of buildings and their external walls, reduce noise nuisances and purify air. Green buildings can also provide dwellings for wild animals and increase biodiversity in the city, and make our city more beautiful and provide a better living place for the people. But how many buildings in Hong Kong have completed rooftop or vertical greening? Certainly, there are but not many.

The Government should work harder to increase the greening ratio of buildings. For vertical greening, examples can be found in the Kai Tak Cruise Terminal, the North Lantau Hospital, the Science Park and the Hong Kong Baptist University. As compared with other cities, I think we lack a goal. As a 4448 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 result, there is little progress. There are individualistic efforts made, but the Government does not have a direction for development. I hope the Government can set a goal or direction, or even a policy on this and provide subsidies to carry out greening works for buildings.

The fifth proposal is to promote water conservation, develop a "sponge city", increase urban water bodies and explore new water resources such as desalinated and reclaimed water. I think we all know that water resources is getting increasingly precious. Our country may become the place most lacking in water resources in the future. Hong Kong is beset by flooding. Our water resources mainly come from Dongjiang river. I proposed in this Council a few years ago that we should proactively develop Hong Kong into a "sponge city". I hope the Government can work harder on all fronts to cool down the city and pool more natural and reclaimed water, so as to lower Hong Kong's reliance on Dongjinag river.

The sixth point is to have a plastic-free timetable. The impacts of both microplastics and plastics on the environment can last for hundreds of thousands of years. To date, the Government is not very determined to ban the use of microplastics, or set a timetable to stop the use of disposable plastic tableware and related products in the long run. Although it is good to see that the Government has started to work with industries to formulate directions and launch pilot schemes on this issue, we cannot see any plan from the Government on comprehensively addressing the problem of plastic pollution in Hong Kong. Microplastics is a serious problem. Many products being sold in Hong Kong contain microplastics. We have repeatedly raised this concern in the Legislative Council, hoping that the Government can introduce legislation to ban the use of products containing microplastics. The Government has yet to respond to us. I hope that there can be a concrete timetable on tackling this issue.

The seventh point is promoting green traffic modes and related technologies. Means to promote green transport are no more than reducing the use of fuel-engined vehicles and using more public transport modes and bicycles. We have put forth many proposals, such as constructing light rail transit systems to connect the Kai Tak New Development Area and its nearby places and the new development areas of Fanling North, Kwu Tung North and Ping Che.

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Moreover, we always hold that the Government should reconsider electric vehicles. We debated this subject yesterday. I did not have a chance to speak but other colleagues had a chance to discuss this issue with the Secretary. We still think that electric vehicles are more environmentally-friendly than fuel-engined vehicles, but the Government does not seem to concur with us. Since the reduction in the first registration tax concessions for electric vehicles, the purchase of new vehicles has increased rather than decreased. This proves that the measure fails to lower people's desire to purchase vehicles but has actually increased people's desire to buy fuel-engined vehicles and buy less electric vehicles.

Apart from economic incentives, we need to provide a comprehensive network of quick chargers to promote the use of electric vehicles. The Secretary suggested yesterday that electric vehicle owners should charge their vehicles before driving using the facilities at their residential estates. But it is difficult for some residential estates to install a quick charging network because the installation requires the prior approval of the owners' corporation and adequate electricity support. The Government has to be realistic.

We have put forth the proposal of a "bicycle city" for years. There was a motion debate on this subject earlier, so I will not go into the details here, but I hope the Government will listen to our view.

I wish to raise one more point and that is developing green finance. Hong Kong is an international financial centre. There is great potential for us to develop green finance. It is estimated that green finance will attract an annual investment of $54,000 billion worldwide, covering low-carbon infrastructural facilities that can withstand climate change. Guangdong Province is ahead of us. In June 2018, its government announced the implementation details of the Guangzhou green finance pilot zone. Investments will focus on promoting innovation and entrepreneurship, environmental-friendly facilities and green industry development, with a view to enhancing their environmental protection technologies, eco-farming, energy and water conservation, etc. Being a part of the Greater Bay Area, Hong Kong should expeditiously discuss with Guangzhou how to promote green finance together (The buzzer sounded) …

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr QUAT, please stop.

4450 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): President, to begin with, I wish to thank Mr Martin LIAO for raising this issue. This has given this Council an opportunity to review the Government's environmental policy.

The Secretary attended a meeting on the Paris Agreement as Hong Kong's representative and made the commitment that around 2020―around two years from now―Hong Kong would be able to meet the relevant targets. This is the commitment made by Hong Kong. Many people cherish great expectations of the Secretary because everybody knows that the Secretary started out in the field of green economy, and former Secretary Edward YAU was an Administrative Officer. Therefore, we have all the more reason to cherish greater expectations of the Secretary. But perhaps greater expectation will really end up in greater disappointment. Speaking of mitigating climate change, developing a green economy and a green lifestyle, and also reducing greenhouse gas emissions, Hong Kong has failed to tread the right path over the past few years. Moreover, to put it bluntly, it is even going astray.

My amendment mentions the policy on electric vehicles. I believe that initially, Hong Kong could be one of the places in the Asian region that was most suitable for using electric vehicles. The reason is that road trips in Hong Kong are generally short, and the city is densely populated and plagued by serious air pollution. Certainly, the Secretary may rebuke me by arguing that electric vehicles are also powered by electricity generated by power plants, and carbon emissions from power plants also account for over 60% of Hong Kong's carbon emissions, so reducing the overall number of vehicles is a reasonably necessary step. But the point I am driving at is that the policy should encourage more people to use low-emission vehicles or simply refrain from using any vehicles. I am not talking solely about electric vehicles. My amendment also mentions bicycles. But let me begin with a discussion on electric vehicles.

After Financial Secretary Paul CHAN proposed to abolish the first registration tax exemption for electric vehicles, the number of new electric vehicle registrations has plummeted from 700 per month before the implementation of this policy to 17 per month, with the result that the proportion of electric vehicles in the total number of private cars has declined to merely 2.5%. At the same time, the situation has exacerbated day after day because of the drastic increase in the number of fuel-driven vehicles by 13 278 during the period from April 2017 to February 2018. I do not know what the Secretary LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4451 thinks. I think the Secretary seems to be a bit unrealistic if he thinks that discouraging people to buy electric vehicles can achieve a reduction in Hong Kong's carbon emissions.

As the Secretary told us in his reply to Mr Kenneth LEUNG's question yesterday, the existing measure is targeted at those electric vehicles in the lower price range of $240,000 and $400,000 on the market, so he thinks that the measure is indeed reasonably necessary. But why should the Government refuse to offer tax concession or the previous first registration tax exemption for people intending to buy electric vehicles while increasing the tax rates for fuel-driven vehicles? This is rather able to encourage people intending to buy vehicles to choose those with low emissions, and this is rather in line with Hong Kong's overall direction. But I do not understand why the Government should refuse to adopt all such measures. This is the first point.

The second point concerns the use of bicycles. Many cities in the world which are more advanced than Hong Kong, such as Copenhagen and Amsterdam with which people are familiar, are well-known for their widespread use of bicycles. Let me put aside these cities for the time being. I only want to talk about those cities which face similar implementation difficulties as Hong Kong, such as Tokyo. Tokyo is one of the 15 bicycle-friendly cities in the world. Those who have visited Tokyo may know that it is plagued by serious traffic congestion. People should not think that the situation in Ginza is better than Hong Kong. In the case of Ginza, for example, its roads are congested with many vehicles, and its traffic flows are heavier when compared to Hong Kong. But Tokyo has still endeavoured to promote a bicycle-friendly policy and encourage people to use bicycles more often. Why does Hong Kong lag behind others so very shamefully? Why does Hong Kong refuse to take even just a step forward?

Speaking of Copenhagen, for example, there are 570 000 bicycles among some 1 200 000 people. This means that every two people have a bicycle. Copenhagen and Hong Kong do not differ much from each other. But 20% of the former's population use bicycles as a means of transport. From this, we can see that it is most suitable to promote the use of low-emission transport (such as electric vehicles and bicycles) in this small and densely populated city of Hong Kong. But the Government has paid no heed to this, very much to our regret and disappointment.

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The aforesaid two problems may not be totally related to the Secretary. I say so because the electric vehicle policy involves the Government's fiscal policy, and the latter is probably related to the Financial Secretary. But the Secretary is an accountability official. If he in the team of government officials wishes to take forward the building of a community with low emissions or low greenhouse gas emissions, then he is duty-bound to convince the Bureau Directors beside him, the Financial Secretary and even Carrie LAM to develop in a better direction. This is indisputable.

The third point is about city design. While this may not be directly related to the Secretary, Hong Kong's pace of constructing walkways, underground streets and footbridges is honestly very slow. The only facility that is good in the eyes of Hong Kong people is the Central Elevated Walkway. Many people use this footbridge when going to restaurants or other places. But over the past two or three decades, only Central has been equipped with such a footbridge. Have such facilities been installed in other districts? No. Why? This is indeed a shame to us.

The construction of some buildings is even against environmentalism. One example is screen-like buildings. Some property developers have constructed screen-like buildings to maximize their profits. This is honestly outrageous. But not all screen-like buildings are constructed by property developers. Some are actually constructed by the Urban Renewal Authority ("URA"), such as Vision City, The Zenith, Queen's Terrace and The Merton. Members should know that URA is a 100% government-funded organization. It is really deplorable for them to construct screen-like buildings. Screen-like buildings are high and wide, and they do not fit in with the nearby environment and cause the heat island effect. The Secretary must be held responsible for this.

I certainly welcome the formulation of a pilot scheme for local ferries as proposed in the Policy Address and its trial run by the "Star" Ferry Company, Limited as the start. But some may question, "Is it not right to say that the Government has already amended the legislation to require vessels to switch to low-sulphur marine fuel within the waters of Hong Kong?" There is actually an inside story. While ocean-going vessels within the waters of Hong Kong are required to reduce their sulphur dioxide emissions from 2019 onwards, everybody knows that fishing vessels, barges and river trade vessels from the Mainland, rather than ocean-going vessels, are the source of the problem, and their emissions have caused serious pollution. First, are such vessels regulated by our LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4453 laws? Second, have the authorities enforced the law? All this is a huge shame to us. Even if Hong Kong has done its intrinsic duties, the Government must still enforce the law and require vessels from nearby regions to comply with it.

Another point is related to the Secretary: energy-saving measures for Hong Kong's industrial and commercial buildings. Sadly, the Government has not included any stipulations when signing the scheme of control agreements of as long as 15 years. Generally speaking, electricity tariffs paid by Hong Kong people are computed on a progressive basis. This means that higher electricity consumption will incur a higher electricity tariff. On the contrary, electricity tariffs borne by industrial and commercial users are regressive, meaning to say that higher electricity consumption will incur a lower electricity tariff. As found by a survey conducted by a green organization, the difference in electricity tariffs between these two types of users can be as much as three times. This means that the electricity tariff for a residential user with extremely high electricity consumption can be three times that of an industrial and commercial user with extremely high electricity consumption. Why should the Government refuse to do anything? The Environment Bureau is responsible for negotiating the scheme of control agreements with the two power companies. Even if the Government agrees to let them maximize their profits or let go of them altogether, the regressive system has turned into a cause of concern among us. Why should the Government refuse to right the wrong? I notice that the Secretary is shaking his head. I hope the Secretary can do something.

The last point is about renewable energies. As Members all know, speaking of renewable energies, the two power companies may now do whatever they like as they have achieved their objective. This explains why they have merely introduced some other initiatives. But such initiatives are not adequate. The two power companies should take the initiative―or should be mandated by the Government―to install solar panels at all buildings (including high-rising buildings) in Hong Kong. In fact, the installation of such panels is possible at many buildings. But at present, the Government has not provided any incentives, and the relevant facilities are likewise very expensive. Besides, electricity users of various buildings also think that their electricity tariffs are very low at present, so they simply do not have any incentive to install such facilities after computation. The Government should either require the two power companies to proceed with their installation, or introduce certain subsidy schemes for the installation of renewable energy facilities at buildings, or else all such measures will only turn into empty talks. The two power companies are 4454 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 very lucky, in the sense that they have successfully wheedled the Government and everybody in Hong Kong. Their scheme of control agreements with a validity period of 15 years have enabled them to reap maximum profits. Regrettably, the Secretary has missed the best opportunity. (The buzzer sounded)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr KWOK, please stop speaking.

DR KWOK KA-KI (in Cantonese): I so submit.

MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, Mr Martin LIAO has moved a very important motion this time.

Different studies show that if the climate change we face does not slow down or stop, to say the least about other consequences, actually most of the species on Earth will disappear, and eventually even human beings may disappear in the most tragic situation.

Last week, the two-week United Nations Climate Change Conference, abbreviated as "COP24", was held in Poland. In fact, this year's theme is to examine the implementation of the Paris Agreement by more than 200 state parties over the past three years since it was signed in 2015. How is our progress exactly? Can we fulfil the Paris Agreement's commitment to keeping the global temperature rise well below 2°C? Of course, we hope to limit the temperature increase even further to 1.5°C.

Unfortunately, however, a wide variety of evidence or studies have shown that the Paris Agreement's targets are absolutely impossible to achieve nowadays. Some scientists have also pointed out that even if those targets are achievable, we may not necessarily be able to reverse the overall global temperature rise.

On 5 December this year, the Global Carbon Project published the study finding that the global carbon dioxide emissions in 2018 rose by 2.7% compared to the previous year, representing the biggest increase in seven years. The United Nations Environment Programme also released a report last week warning of a widening gap between global greenhouse gas emissions and the target levels, which calls for our greater efforts in emissions reduction.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4455

My proposed amendment to Mr LIAO's original motion is also about some targeted measures. For example, I have deleted such words as "at an appropriate time" and "as appropriate" used by Mr LIAO in his motion, because emissions reduction must be carried out immediately and more intensely. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change released another special report in addition on 8 October this year, pointing out that many climatic phenomena, such as rising sea levels, melting glaciers, volcanic eruptions and typhoon disasters, are actually also linked to climate changes. Besides, we have noted that the recent typhoons in Hong Kong, such as Hato, Pakhar and Mangkhut, took place on usually typhoon-free days and became much more destructive than previous typhoons. These abnormal climatic phenomena are, in fact, absolutely related to temperature rises. Therefore, projects or policies on emissions reduction should definitely not be delayed, implemented slowly, or subjected to a lower standard.

Another point is about the active development of green finance. When it comes to green finance, it actually involves several different items, including such relevant initiatives as green bonds, green credit and Principles for Responsible Investment. Actually, looking back, Hong Kong is very suitable to become a green financial centre, but unfortunately, for one, Hong Kong started too slow; secondly, our awareness is not strong; and thirdly, the Government does not seem to be giving great impetus to promote the development of green finance.

Let us take a look at some past figures. The green bond issuance volume of Hong Kong in 2017 was only US$2.3 billion. In contrast, the global green bond issuance volume last year was US$155.5 billion, while that of the United States was US$42.4 billion and even that of Mainland China reached US$22.5 billion. What is Hong Kong doing exactly? Hong Kong is an international financial centre claiming to issue green bonds, but after so many years, the volume is only US$2 billion plus. After all, is our environmental awareness too low? Do we have insufficient supportive measures? Is the Government's impetus too weak? I hope the Secretary and the Financial Services and the Treasury Bureau can really make improvements.

Another area of concern to me is green buildings. Green buildings can generally improve the environmental impact in terms of energy saving, emission and waste reduction, and better use of water resources. In fact, we can draw our attention to the existing buildings in Hong Kong, which account for 90% of the power consumption of the territory. Why are there so many lights in buildings, including the Chamber we are in now? This is exactly the main source of 4456 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 carbon emissions in Hong Kong. Therefore, if the buildings in Hong Kong fail to save energy, it is useless to say anything. President, actually, in my view, even if we turn off 90% of the lights in this Chamber, we can still hold a meeting here.

There are currently more than 45 000 old and new buildings in Hong Kong, and BEAM Plus is a certification tool for assessing the actual energy efficiency performance and green property management practices of buildings. The assessment scheme is based on voluntary participation and registration by developers, and thus the participation rate is very low. As of May this year, there were only 1 102 registered BEAM Plus projects, reflecting that the concept of green buildings is not yet popular. Therefore, we have to promote the concepts of green buildings, energy saving, water saving, and so on. That said, is the current policy coverage not broad enough? Or is it really because of the nature of voluntary participation that there are very few participants? I believe that the Secretary, as an architect, should have some insight in green buildings, so I hope he answers this question in his response.

Lastly, if we do not use renewable energy to generate electricity, it is useless to adopt electric vehicles, or whatever, across the territory, because if Hong Kong uses fossil fuel to generate electricity, it is useless even to replace all the vehicles in Hong Kong with electric ones. At the end of the day, we should use renewable energy to generate electricity. Only by doing so can we reduce emissions. I believe that, at present, the so-called renewable energy sources actually account for less than 1% of the fuel mix in Hong Kong. As far as renewable energy sources are concerned, the Government has also the concept that, in addition to wind and solar power, they include waste-to-energy conversion, which can also be referred to as a renewable energy source.

Hong Kong is indeed very suitable for the development of solar power. We can also expand the pilot scheme on floating solar power by covering more areas of our reservoirs with floating solar panels. I also hope that the Government implements other relevant tasks as soon as possible, such as looking into further development of suitable solar power projects on other public facilities, including on top of flyovers or on hillsides. Of course, I also hope that the Government can conduct further studies on wind power generation in waters near Hong Kong, and even waters on lease (The buzzer sounded) …

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4457

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, please stop speaking.

MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I so submit.

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): President, first, I would like to thank Mr Martin LIAO for moving this motion and the nine Members who spoke on their amendments. The motion gives a very good and suitable opportunity for me to discuss with Members the policy and measures to counteract climate change. This will help the Government in considering how to further optimize our policy.

Hong Kong was repeatedly hit by tropical cyclones in 2017 and 2018. Two of them, typhoon Hato and super typhoon Mangkhut, caused extensive damage to Hong Kong, triggering storm surges and in turn serious seawater back flow to the low-lying areas. Climate change has caused the continued rising of the sea level and it will intensify the challenges to be brought by extreme weather.

The Government is very concerned about the impacts brought by climate change and has adopted various measures to reduce local emission of greenhouse gases. To combat climate change, the Government established in 2016 the Steering Committee on Climate Change under the chairmanship of the Chief Secretary for Administration to steer and coordinate climate actions among various bureaux and departments. We released in January 2017 the "Hong Kong's Climate Action Plan 2030+" report, setting out in detail the key measures on mitigation, adaptation and resilience to combat climate change. On the front of climate change mitigation, we set the target at reducing Hong Kong's carbon intensity from the level in 2005 by 65% to 70% in 2030, which is equivalent to an absolute reduction of 26% to 36%; and reducing our per capita emissions from about 5.7 tonnes in 2016 to 3.3 tonnes to 3.8 tonnes by 2030. The Government will actively promote low-carbon transformation in Hong Kong, including, among others, adopting cleaner fuels, promoting territory-wide energy saving, commuting green and reducing waste, so as to help achieve the vision of the Paris Agreement.

4458 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

On the front of climate change adaptation, the Climate Change Working Group on Infrastructure ("CCWG") established by the Civil Engineering and Development Department will coordinate the work among various works departments on tackling climate change. CCWG will, among others, review the design standards and resilience of infrastructural facilities, and keep abreast of the times and enhance protection against extreme weather. At the same time, the Government will strengthen the analysis of climate change, the forecast on extreme weather and the promotion of disaster preparedness to enhance the city's resilience against climate change.

Pursuant to the Paris Agreement, Parties should strive to formulate and communicate by 2020 their long-term low greenhouse gas emission development strategies. As a part of our country and also a responsible member of the international community, Hong Kong should formulate by 2020 long-term decarbonization strategies up to 2050. To this end, the SAR Government has invited the Council for Sustainable Development to plan a Public Engagement exercise which will start in early 2019. I encourage Members to actively participate in the exercise.

President, I will continue to implement work plans to combat climate change, make reference from measures and latest scientific development in different places to timely review our measures, and work with different sectors of society and the members of the public to progress towards low carbon living. I will first listen to Members' views on the motion and the amendments, and make a collective response later. Thank you, President.

MR TONY TSE (in Cantonese): President, as the Secretary mentioned just now, while the successive onslaughts of super typhoons Hato and Mangkhut on Hong Kong last year and this year have resulted in a lot of damage and affected the community, they have also aroused public concerns over global climate change. In the report released by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in October this year, countries are warned that they must step up their efforts in reducing carbon emissions to maintain the increase of global average temperature within 1.5°C above the pre-industrialization level within the next 10 years to 20 years; otherwise, it will lead to the possible disappearance of coral reefs in the oceans, a rise in global sea level, and natural disasters of greater severity and scale.

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The motion proposed by Mr Martin LIAO today urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy. This motion comes up at an appropriate time and is an essential one. This time, there are amendments by nine Members from different political parties and groupings, showing that the issue of global climate change is a common concern of Members from different positions in the political spectrum in Hong Kong. They all wish to propose coping strategies and approaches from different perspectives.

Concerning the amendments proposed by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Dr Elizabeth QUAT and Mr Kenneth LEUNG, I have always supported those proposals such as stepping up the promotion of intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture; using data analysis and new green technologies to formulate environmental protection policies; developing a "sponge city"; formulating a plastic-free timetable; promoting green modes of traffic and transport; and developing proactively green finance. However, I have reservations about the proposals of some Members.

Mr CHU Hoi-dick and Mr HUI Chi-fung respectively requested that the Government should lay down a rigid emission reduction target; conduct a study on levying a progressive "carbon tax"; and set a target year for the prohibition of sale of fuel-engined private cars. It is pretty easy to make such proposals, but then how should they be put into practice? How can we make every member of society cooperate with the implementation of these measures?

Recently, France saw the worst rioting for years. The underlying causes may include wealth disparity, labour rights, retirement benefits and other issues alike. But many people may have overlooked the fact that it is the proposal to raise fuel taxes that triggered this riot. The very intention of the said proposal is to promote environmental protection and to tackle climate change by gradually working towards the target proposed by French President Emmanuel MACRON, i.e. banning all diesel and petrol cars by 2040.

The said incident has reminded me of the proposal of waste charging introduced by the Hong Kong Government lately. I am not saying that the waste charging scheme will cause riots, but if the relevant supporting measures and public education are not properly carried out, and the concerns of various stakeholders and the people affected are not seriously addressed, Secretary, it is 4460 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 highly likely that the implementation of waste charging in the future will result in considerable confusion in society and discontent among members of the public. As I previously suggested, will it be possible to distribute a certain number of designated garbage bags to all the people of Hong Kong before the commencement of the relevant legislation, so that people can get used to using the bags and learn to separate their waste? Also, will the Government formally kick off the charging scheme only after the relevant implementation problems are resolved? I hope the Secretary will give these suggestions further consideration.

To achieve reduction of municipal solid waste, apart from imposing charges, it is also necessary to make proper efforts in recycling, especially recovering food waste and waste-to-energy conversion. I think the Government is progressing really slowly in the construction of food waste plant. Earlier when the funding application concerning the project of the Organic Resources Recovery Centre Phase 2 was submitted to the Public Works Subcommittee of the Legislative Council for consideration, it failed to gain the support of certain Members, political parties, and Executive Council Members claiming to support environmental protection. I hope that the Secretary and the Government will rethink about the underlying reasons.

Mr Gary FAN's amendment requested stopping the construction of artificial islands through reclamation. I would like to emphasize that transforming Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon society does not mean that all economic development and urban construction have to be stopped. Nor does it mean that the Government should not carry out land reclamation to improve people's livelihood by providing them a better and bigger living environment. It also has nothing to do with the requirements or suggestions of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

Some people in Hong Kong oppose reclamation and object to developing country parks. They also labelled the development of agricultural land in the New Territories and brownfield sites as collusion of the government, businesses, village thugs and triads. If we continue to have no large additional land and new development areas, and rely solely on the redevelopment of old districts, and the construction of standalone buildings and transitional housing to tackle the housing problem, the heat island effect in Hong Kong's urban areas will become increasingly serious. Members of the public and enterprises will then have no alternative but to adjust the air-conditioning to a lower temperature. Without LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4461 new land for transport infrastructure, congestion on the existing roads will deteriorate further, and, in turn, exacerbate air pollution and carbon emissions, thus resulting in greater environmental problems. In this way, the idea of making bicycles a mode of daily transport as suggested by many Members becomes even more improbable.

All in all, there can be a balance between environmental protection and development as the two are not mutually exclusive. For any well-intended suggestions about waste reduction or emission reduction, if it is unable to get the support of our society and to improve, or at least maintain, people's livelihood, it will definitely stand little chance of success.

With these remarks, President, I support the motion of Mr Martin LIAO.

MS CLAUDIA MO (in Cantonese): The original motion proposed by Mr Martin LIAO today actually has a far-flung reach, in the sense that it advocates the protection of not only Hong Kong's environment but also the earth and the entire universe.

However, after listening to various Members' speeches, I notice that they seem to have over-emphasized green technologies and also the environmental industry, and I therefore have the feeling that their mindset is quite money-oriented. The "money" I talk about is symbolized by the dollar sign "$". It is certainly alright for one to be money-oriented if one's objective is to protect the environment. And, it is also okay to develop in a greener direction. Nevertheless, when speaking on his amendment, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok nonetheless mentioned the Regional Cooperation Plan on Building a Quality Living Area published by Guangdong, Hong Kong and Macao. I am not speculating his motives. But even if he does not have any particular motives, his so doing will produce the following effects.

First, I immediately conjure up the report on Members' visit to the Guangdong-Hong Kong-Macao Greater Bay Area. The report devotes four entire paragraphs to discussing the technologies developed by Huawei Technologies Co. Ltd. ("Huawei"). So, should our environmental industry (especially the green technology industry) only do business with Huawei in the future? Will it become one of the major buyers of its technologies? That is to say, will we become the major client of Huawei? Dr Elizabeth QUAT is more 4462 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 frank with us. The last recommendation in her amendment proposes the joint development of "green finance in the Greater Bay Area". Members should understand what it is all about without my further explanation. Is it simply wrong to do commercial transactions or adopt a money-oriented mentality? I for one do not dare to give a definitive answer. But mentioning China-Hong Kong integration in whatever discussions will inevitably arouse people's concern, especially when the word "integration" can very possibly be associated with the virtual meltdown of Hong Kong, just like an ice cube melting in hot water.

Members have also pointed out that big data are something good. Of course, who will dare to say that they are definitely not? The problem is that even the Amnesty International has propagated this very extensively, "China has put in place stringent rules and regulations for monitoring the Internet. But there is not any effective monitoring in law. Their excessive collection and use of personal data may bring transient convenience to the broad masses once people have conceded to it. But it may lead to catastrophic consequences ultimately in the long run." Members should be able to understand this perfectly.

Regarding various Members' amendments, I am not against all of them. Mr HUI Chi-fung's amendment commands my particular approval. If we could go back in time and use bicycles as often as people in the 1980s did … Well, back in those days, we could see people riding bicycles everywhere in Mainland China. We might think that bicycles were a backward means of transport, and people had to cycle around because they could not afford a car. But the case is the exact opposite today. Bicycles have become the most environmental means of transport among individuals. Nevertheless, I do not totally support Mr CHU Hoi-dick's proposal of containing the growth of private cars because the Government will try to achieve this objective by significantly increasing the cost of car ownership, such as raising various taxes and charges. This will not work. Some people use private cars due to actual needs. They use private cars because, for example, they live in remote areas, or their family members are wheelchair-bound. So, I think this recommendation is problematic.

Besides, Mr HUI Chi-fung urges the Government to formulate a legislative timetable on banning the use of disposable plastic tableware and straws. While he is not requesting the Government to introduce a new policy overnight, he has raised the need for considering a ban on disposable plastic tableware and straws in the long run. In fact, the request he puts forth is the most humble, in the sense that he merely hopes that the Government can promote the relevant message as a LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4463 start and proceed to consider the idea of enacting legislation. There is an English proverb which goes, "Charity begins at home." It does not mean that anything related to households should only begin at the household level. Rather, it means that even the most insignificant initiative should need the joint efforts of everybody as a start. Members should come to imagine this. The volume of plastic waste is measured in terms of "trillion" and "tonnage". Plastic waste generated by straws alone has already produced significant impacts on ocean creatures. This is totally conceivable.

The Government has often talked about the need for a solid waste levy these days. As I have learnt, the Government's efforts were hindered by non-democratic Members as they had struck down the relevant initiative at the Bills Committee concerned. Just now, some Members also uttered such words as "Let us complete the preparations first". We are merely talking about a solid waste levy. It has been implemented in Taiwan, Japan and South Korea for quite some time. But in the case of Hong Kong, its implementation has met with delay. I wonder if political considerations are involved. But I do not intend to find this out. Prolonged delay has occurred to its implementation in Hong Kong. And, some have even cited many figures and used such academic terminologies as "carbon intensity", saying that "we have already reduced our emissions". As shown by government papers, the relevant emissions have honestly dropped. But carbon intensity is linked to the Gross Domestic Product. We simply cannot tell from it whether carbon emissions have dropped.

Mr Gary FAN's amendment urges the Government to consider … Well, the Government should stop the construction of artificial islands through reclamation altogether instead of giving mere consideration to the idea. I am not saying that reclamation must be banned, because the place where we are now is likewise created by reclamation. We should proceed with reclamation only in case of genuine needs. Under the established principles at present, the authorities should follow the order of brownfield sites as the first option, country parks as the second option, and reclamation as the last option. But the Government has refused to conduct any formal public consultation on such a massive reclamation project which involves the spending of $1,500 billion. Honourable Members, we are talking about the spending of $1,500 billion!

I so submit.

4464 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

MR FRANKIE YICK (in Cantonese): President, along with social development, carbon emissions around the world are constantly on the rise, resulting in climate change and even extreme weather. The super typhoons Hato of last year and Mangkhut of this year were the products of increased global warming. A number of places across the territory suffered heavy destruction during the two powerful typhoon attacks. Therefore, the Liberal Party agrees that carbon reduction efforts admit of no delay.

Following power plants, transport has been pinpointed as the second largest source of local greenhouse gas emissions. Notably, the quantities and mileages of vehicles are directly related to carbon emissions. As I have repeatedly emphasized in the past, the shortage of parking spaces leaves motorists no alternative but to drive around to look for parking spaces, thus not only affecting roadside air quality, but also increasing carbon emissions. Therefore, the Liberal Party has always been asking the Government to increase parking spaces and make use of smart technology to transmit information about the availability of parking spaces in car parks. In fact, technological developments have helped reduce carbon emissions. For example, the Global Positioning System can already help drivers choose the fastest and shortest route, and taxi-hailing apps also help reduce the need for taxi drivers to stay on the road to look for passengers. Most importantly, shortening the journeys will help reduce carbon emissions. Therefore, the Government should, in its policy, encourage the use of technology to reduce carbon emissions.

In order to reduce carbon emissions from transportation vehicles, the Government has taken the right direction in developing mass transportation as a priority in its transport policy and encouraging people to make full use of public transport. However, in recent years, the Government's transport policy has been too skewed towards rail transport. As a result, there is an imbalance in the overall public transport service, characterized by a mismatch between transport needs and availability, thus giving rise even to the problem of illegal hire cars, which not just undermine the business of legally operated public transport services, but also lead to more traffic on the roads. At present, no less than 10 000 illegal hire cars are estimated to be operating on the market. This is one of the main causes for the aggravation of road congestion and increase of carbon emissions. Therefore, the Government should step up its efforts to crack down on such illegal activities and help various public transport operators raise their LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4465 standard of service so as to properly divert the demand for public transport services.

Since fuel-engined vehicles have all along been pinpointed as one of the main sources of carbon emissions, which aggravate the greenhouse effect, using zero-emission electric vehicles has become the general trend. A number of European countries, such as the United Kingdom and France, have announced that they will eliminate highly polluting fuel-engined vehicles altogether before 2040, and the National 13th Five-Year Plan also clearly supports the popularization of new energy vehicles and upgrading of the industrialization level for electric car manufacturing. Currently, 100% of the buses and more than half of the taxis in Shenzhen have already gone electric. Looking back at Hong Kong, we have made very slow progress in promoting the use of electric vehicles. They just account for less than 2% of the total number of registered vehicles.

In order to promote the popularization of electric vehicles, the Government should, in addition to providing tax concessions, make an all-out effort to comprehensively strengthen the supporting facilities for electric vehicles, including mandatorily requiring all new commercial and residential buildings to provide parking spaces with charging facilities for electric vehicles, providing incentives to attract owners' committees or owners' corporations of existing buildings to accept applications for the installation of charging facilities, increasing charging facilities for electric vehicles in government premises and public car parks, strengthening the training of talents for the electric vehicle industry, and improving the maintenance and repair services for electric vehicles.

As regards the suggestions in the amendments of some Members to designate bicycles as a mode of transport, the last-term Government has in fact proposed to develop a "bicycle-friendly environment" in new towns and new development areas, linking up the existing fragmented cycle tracks in the New Territories. We in the Liberal Party wish to reiterate our absolutely support for the use of bicycles as a means of feeder transport in new development areas, provided that there are adequate supporting facilities and a sound regulatory system. However, having regard to the existing vehicle-pedestrian conflicts in urban areas, the Liberal Party has reservations about encouraging the use of bicycles on urban roads because it will definitely increase the risk of traffic accidents. Moreover, the roadside air quality in Hong Kong is indeed poor, and 4466 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 habitual cycling in an environment with poor air quality will increase the risk of respiratory diseases and indirectly increase the Government's health care expenditure.

In addition to road transport, marine transport is also pinpointed as a source of high emissions, with ocean-going vessels contributing to a larger proportion. Back in September 2012, the Government began to implement concessionary measures on the port facilities and light dues charged on ocean-going vessels in order to encourage them to switch to clean fuel with lower sulphur content while at berth in Hong Kong waters. Starting from next year, in tandem with the Pearl River Delta, Hong Kong will implement the new requirement that all vessels entering the waters within the emission control area shall use low sulphur diesel with sulphur content not more than 0.5%.

As regards local vessels, the Government has required local ships and ferries to switch to low sulphur diesel with sulphur content of 0.05%, but if local vessels are further required to use diesel with lower sulphur content, the high cost can hardly be affordable for local commercial vessels unless the Government considers providing subsidy. Although there is currently the Pilot Green Transport Fund to subsidize ferry operators to develop environmentally friendly vessels, the response from the industry is lukewarm because the offer is unattractive at all, as the Government is asking the operators to pay for the "chicken" while it pays only for the "soy sauce", so to speak―President, I hereby declare that the "Star" Ferry Company, Limited, which I work for, has also applied for the Fund―Therefore, the Liberal Party welcomes the Government to review the operation of the Fund.

In fact, as most of the local commercial vessels have been in use for many years, the emissions from their aged engines are certainly higher than those from newer ones. Therefore, the Liberal Party hopes that, taking reference from the scheme for retirement of aged diesel commercial vehicles, the Government provides subsidy to encourage ship owners to replace the aged engines of their vessels in order to further reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

President, I so submit.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4467

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): The Hong Kong Observatory uploaded a promotional post on its Facebook page at noon, announcing that a Geminid meteor shower will occur tomorrow on 14 December, with up to 120 meteors per hour streaking across the sky of Hong Kong at its peak. However, the post also mentioned that the public might not be able to see 120 meteors due to the impact of Hong Kong's urbanization and light pollution. In spite of this, crowds of astronomy enthusiasts and members of the public who intend to watch the meteor shower will be expected to go stargazing tomorrow night.

Regarding these environmental issues, with due respect to the Secretary, I think the work of the Environment Bureau is nothing more than greening, supporting the Earth Hour event by turning off lights, desalination and water pollution prevention and control, but are these enough?

In fact, I have to defend the Secretary and the Environment Bureau. A number of Members criticized the SAR Government or the Environment Bureau just now for seemingly failing to implement any specific work or set any targets in order to reduce carbon emissions or implement the measures recommended by the United Nations. However, in my opinion, in the current Hong Kong society, promoting environmental protection is the most arduous task because many members of the public consider the environmental protection work of the authorities to be measures which are inessential or optional in their life.

For example, transport-friendly policies help reduce carbon emissions, including encouraging the public to cycle to work. However, the majority of grass-roots citizens consider that only the so-called petite bourgeoisie can choose this kind of lifestyle. If someone suggests that I cycle to work, I will put a counter-question to him: Wouldn't it be more desirable to go to work by bus and take a nap en route?

After all, in order to implement long-term and sustainable environmental protection policies in Hong Kong, we cannot possibly avoid the following questions: In what ways do we want Hong Kong to develop? What should be the components of a quality life?

Nowadays, Hong Kong people will no longer ask these questions because they consider the Hong Kong Government to be preposterous indeed. It first claimed that the co-location arrangement was not unconstitutional, and then arrested a number of people; it then proposed the reclamation project costing one 4468 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 thousand billion dollars, which is tantamount to dumping money into the sea. How can Hong Kong people have a quality life? This certainly has nothing to do with the specific details of policies; the public may simply not trust the Hong Kong Government. In an effort to promote environmental protection, the Environment Bureau or the Environmental Protection Department ("EPD") implements low-carbon, greening, multiple-intelligence and high-technology social development. However, they definitely should not evade the question I raised just now, namely, from the perspective of social values, what is a quality living environment?

I believe that the majority of the public, especially listeners of radio programmes, must have heard of the following view: "The Environment Bureau has implemented the policy on Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment ('WEEE'), and it will implement municipal solid waste charging ('MSWC') in the future; however, its environmental protection effort has proven to be counter-productive; despite the various tasks to reduce waste, it is actually better to simply dissolve the Environment Bureau." Such comments have been frequently heard in the radio programme 18/F Block C. Members of the public are of the view that the authorities have done a disservice out of good intentions.

Not that I do not support environmental protection; I just do not support the environmental protection work currently taken forward by the Hong Kong Government. For example, WEEE, the prime environmental protection policy at the moment, has aroused the allegation of government-business collusion upon its implementation. The authorities have appointed ALBA Integrated Waste Solutions (Hong Kong) Limited as the sole recycler responsible for recovering WEEE across Hong Kong. At present, not only is the recycling site in Tuen Mun overflowing with the WEEE recovered, the Government has even provided a site in Kowloon Bay for free for placing waste electrical appliances. According to a number of grass-roots citizens, when they disposed of electrical appliances in the past, they would sell them to scrap dealers, kaifongs or other recyclers in the community. Upon introduction of the policy on WEEE, the entire recycling industry has collapsed. Worst of all, the majority of the public criticized the Government for competing with the grass roots for profits, calling into question the motive for its act.

The authorities' environmental protection, greening and diversified policies have caused nuisance to the public in the end. The MSWC scheme to be implemented under the name of high-technology environmental protection will LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4469 conceivably cause even more nuisance to the public. The Government has confirmed the implementation of specific measures, including the installation of "sky eyes" to catch litterbugs. It is expected that next year "sky eyes" will cover 170 black spots to be monitored by the Food and Environmental Hygiene Department and EPD. In addition, the authorities will install multi-functional smart lampposts to monitor various districts of the territory, including Wan Chai, Causeway Bay, Central, Tsim Sha Tsui, Kwun Tong, Kai Tak, etc. My advice to the authorities is that smart lampposts should be installed along the entire Haiphong Road to monitor litter offenders.

I would like to put a fundamental question to the authorities: Does the Government aim to deter the public from littering or target Mainland visitors under the Individual Visit Scheme who litter at Haiphong Road? Will the authorities really enforce the law? If not, the Government may have to draw reference from the policies of other regions or countries in the long run.

Waste charging has been implemented in Taipei for 17 years. Fellow Members may not be aware of one of the policies implemented. The Government may refer to Taipei's practice of monitoring black spots of illegal refuse dumping. In addition, the Taipei authorities have put in place a policy whereby members of the public may report litter offenders. Once reports are substantiated, offenders will be fined NT$1,200 to NT$6,000, from which informants can get 75% of the fine. Consequently, some people have made it their job to report other people for littering and thus receive a total of NT$1.94 million, or HK$500,000, each month. Will the Government introduce this policy? If so, all people of Hong Kong may become informants who report other people for littering in order to receive the fine thereafter. This policy may be welcomed by grass-roots citizens but our neighbourhood relationship will be ruined.

The fundamental question is whether a quality life should simply be waste-free only? In a relatively civilized civic society, should members of the public discharge their due responsibility in a bottom-up manner? All the policies currently implemented by the authorities are considered brutal measures and nuisance by the public (The buzzer sounded) … 

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr CHENG, please stop speaking.

4470 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

DR CHENG CHUNG-TAI (in Cantonese): I so submit.

MR CHUNG KWOK-PAN (in Cantonese): President, while the people of Hong Kong attach great importance to clothing, food, housing and transport, the Government's existing policy on environmental protection only covers food, housing and transport but not clothing.

With respect to food, as Members have mentioned earlier, the first food waste processing plant has now been constructed, and whether a second one will be built will be decided by the Secretary. Concerning housing, I will not say much since the Secretary is an expert in the design and construction of green buildings and a number of colleagues have touched on various aspects such as lighting. In regard to transport, electric vehicles are now available, and Mr Frankie YICK has talked about many issues concerning transportation. The SAR Government has formulated policies on the three areas concerning food, housing and transport, yet there is currently no environmental policy on clothing.

Recently, the industry has conducted an international survey covering five major international cities, namely New York, London, Tokyo, Shanghai and Hong Kong. In each city, 1 000 people were interviewed for their opinion on eco-friendly clothing. The findings of the survey were slightly surprising. It turned out that people in Shanghai were actually more environmental conscious than people of Hong Kong and they were more willing to pay more for clothes made of eco-friendly materials or made by eco-friendly technology, whereas Hong Kong people were less willing to pay more for clothes made of eco-friendly materials. This reflects a difference in environmental awareness and education between the people of the two places. For this reason, I believe the SAR Government may need to enhance the education of young people about the environment, especially about eco-friendly clothing.

Has Hong Kong manufactured eco-friendly clothing? I can tell Members that we have such products and the quality of which has reached international standard. A recycling mill was opened in Tai Po Industrial Estate in September this year. In fact, no mills have opened in Hong Kong in the past 50 years, and now a recycling mill is re-established in Hong Kong. What is the purpose of this recycling mill? I had previously made an introduction in this Chamber and allow me to explain again. A special technology is used to separate fabric blends in old clothes collected and then use the yarn to make new clothes. Is this not amazing? LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4471

When Secretary Matthew CHEUNG visited the recycling mill last week, he asked me why Hong Kong could master this technology while other advanced countries in the world have yet to succeed. Other countries also have this concept and some countries might have succeeded in developing this technology, but most developed countries lack the support of related industries and relevant technology. Given that the textile and garment industry has developed in Hong Kong for decades, we have the technology required for such kind of research and development. This is precisely a new industry that combines the traditional industry with eco-friendly production technology.

The recycling mill is a big factory in Tai Po Industrial Estate. If Members do not want to travel all the way to Tai Po to see how this technology works, they can pay a visit to The Mills located at the site of the former Nan Fung Cotton Mills in Tsuen Wan. A small production line is set up in a 40-metre long container. People can leave their old clothes there and return after four hours to get a new garment. The production line is in operation now; Members may go there to gain a personal experience.

Hong Kong should really take pride in having developed this world leading technology. Why do I say so? H&M, a well-known multinational chain store, has acquired from Hong Kong two sets of machines equipped with the technology and shipped them back to Sweden, and there are other foreign enterprises which have the intention to acquire the technology. I will leave the issue of exports for the moment. As many colleagues have mentioned the Greater Bay Area, I think it would be very practical to apply the technology in the Greater Bay Area. What Members said earlier were vague and impractical ideas such as green finance. How do we develop green finance? What I am talking about is recycling of garments. There are worn and discarded garments in all places of the world, how should they be dealt with? Should all garments be dumped into the landfills? With this technology, recycled old clothing can be transformed into new ones; how amazing it is.

I have submitted a proposal to the Secretary on how Hong Kong can be developed into a sustainable garment production centre in the world. I sincerely hope that he will seriously study and implement the proposal, for it will benefit not only Hong Kong but also the world at large. Despite its small size, Hong Kong can have a great impact on the world as far as eco-friendly clothing is concerned. I believe Members will find this technology rather innovative. I 4472 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 can arrange Members to visit the recycling mill in Tai Po Industrial Estate to learn about the advanced development of the technology.

Thank you, President. I so submit.

MR YIU SI-WING (in Cantonese): President, as extreme weather continues to plague the world, news stories about abnormal weather conditions are frequent. Hong Kong certainly cannot be unaffected. In summer this year, the Hong Kong Observatory recorded 15 consecutive days with temperature reaching 33°C or above, and the temperature in the New Territories even went up to 38°C, which broke the record of hot weather since 1963. In September this year, super typhoon Mangkhut wreaked havoc at various places of Hong Kong, which I believe members of the public still remember vividly. I agree to the proposal in Mr Martin LIAO's original motion which urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change proactively and lead the public to transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon society.

From a macro perspective, Hong Kong must abide by the Paris Agreement entered into force in 2016 after negotiation by various State Parties, including China, and adopt various environmental protection measures to reduce carbon emissions and combat climate change. Foreign Minister WANG Yi said at the G20 Summit last month that China tackled climate change steadfastly and it would continue to move in the direction of green, low-carbon and sustainable development. As Hong Kong is part of our country and also an international city, the Government is, as proposed in the original motion and other Members' amendments, duty-bound to lead the environmental protection work and implement specific measures to reduce carbon emissions.

From a micro perspective, the current Government released in early 2017 Hong Kong's Climate Action Plan 2030+ formulated by the Steering Committee on Climate Change chaired by the Chief Secretary for Administration, outlining Hong Kong's longer-term action in combating climate change and setting out the carbon emission reduction target. The Policy Address this year clearly states that Hong Kong needs to draw up by 2020 our own long-term decarbonization strategy up to 2050, revealing the commitment of the Government to environmental protection. I hope that the Government can seriously achieve these targets.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4473

Some 70% of greenhouse gas emissions in Hong Kong come from electricity generation, and electricity consumption of buildings accounts for 90% of Hong Kong's total electricity consumption. Shopping malls, commercial buildings and hotels abound in Hong Kong and these buildings turn on air conditioning for long periods of time. Some environmental groups had measured the air-conditioning temperatures in shopping malls and found that the temperatures of many malls were too low, particularly in summer. The lowest temperature recorded was 19°C, which was obviously lower than a comfortable temperature for the human body. For this reason, a feasible measure to reduce carbon emission is to cooperate with commercial organizations by signing an energy-saving charter, setting the reasonable indoor air-conditioning temperature at different time slots during the day and in different seasons, particularly the indoor temperature during non-peak hours. The authorities can also advise commercial organizations to follow the practice of the Airport Authority Hong Kong by gauging through various sensors the electricity consumption performances of big and small shopping malls and commercial buildings, or using a cloud-based smart energy management system for data collection, so as to formulate appropriate energy-saving measures based on the data collected. The Government can also make reference to the District Cooling System at the Kai Tak Development Area, and install similar cooling systems in certain new development areas, thereby reducing the electricity consumption of various electricity-consuming units through centralized cooling. We learn that such a system can reduce 20% to 30% of electricity consumption and is thus worth exploring.

President, I note that a number of Members have, in their amendments, mentioned the option of green transport, including developing green passageways in new development areas, and perfecting the policy on bicycles and electric vehicles. Of the total carbon emissions in Hong Kong, the overall transport system accounts for some 16%; and among which, emissions from buses, commercial vehicles and private cars account for 70%. According to the data for the past 10 years of the Environmental Protection Department, the air pollutant concentration, and the levels of respirable suspended particulates and nitrogen dioxide recorded at various air quality monitoring stations have been in a steady decline, mainly because the Government has in recent years tightened the standards of vehicle emissions and set up the Green Transport Fund to subsidize the use of low-emission commercial vehicles.

4474 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

For this reason, I think that the Government should continue to create favourable conditions for green commuting and improve the policy on subsidizing electric vehicles. Apart from carrying on with the measures proven effective, it should review its policy on encouraging people to use electric vehicles, particularly electric private cars. In 2017, the SAR Government abolished the full waiver of the first registration tax for electric private cars and imposed a cap on the waiver at $97,500. The Budget this year continues with this tax concession and also introduces the new "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme, which provides a higher first registration tax concession for new electric private cars capped at $250,000. However, the two measures have met with lukewarm responses. Among the over 610 000 private cars registered from March to September this year, only 257 were electric private cars registered for the first time. The Transport Department only approved 268 applications under the "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme as at November. The Government needs to conduct a review to find out the reason for that. Is it because the subsidy is insufficient or are there any other reasons? Is it due to a lack of fast charging stations? I think the Government needs to review all these issues. Only when suitable measures are introduced will people be willing to switch to electric vehicles in the future. I hope that the Government will conduct proper reviews in this regard and avoid introducing ineffective new policies. (The buzzer sounded)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr YIU, please stop speaking.

MR AU NOK-HIN (in Cantonese): Mr LEUNG, climate change is a global issue and Hong Kong should not stay aloof from the situation. For this reason, I believe no Member present here will oppose the transformation of Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, thereby minimizing the destruction of the environment. That said, the title of the debate today is rife with grey areas. The words "a green and low-carbon smart society and economy" in the title of the motion are as controversial as "Hong Kong people warmly celebrate the reunification". Just the words "green", "low-carbon" and "smart" alone will lead to lengthy arguments.

As in the case when we discussed green bond earlier, many Members have asked about the definition of "green". Regarding the issuance of bonds, we have to ask whether this act would ultimately become a "greenwashing" political LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4475 public relations tactic to safeguard various large-scale property development projects. For example, Link Real Estate Investment Trust ("Link REIT") has a commercial project called the Quayside. The project does not involve the selling of shopping arcades; otherwise it would arouse great apprehension. Link REIT claims that the Quayside is a green project. In fact, the green elements only include a lawn and a number of charging plugs for electric vehicles.

Mr LUK Chung-hung said that the Hong Kong Section of the Guangzhou-Shenzhen-Hong Kong Express Rail Link ("XRL") was an environmentally-friendly project as well as a green public works project. However, we should not forget that XRL was constructed at the cost of levelling the entire Choi Yuen Tsuen. Such development projects are undertaken at the cost of tearing down people's homes or destroying the environment. On the one hand, the Government has failed to clearly define "green", treating different projects by different standards and has also failed to formulate specific policy objectives for environmental protection. On the other hand, the Government has never taken into consideration whether various infrastructure projects are truly needed. With the mentality that developments are always good, the Government has undertaken environmental protection work under the banner of green projects and green bonds, which is undoubtedly self-deceiving and irresponsible.

Why do we say that the Government does not seem to have set any environmental protection objectives? Regarding such concepts as low-carbon and smart, the Government should set specific policy directions. For example, regarding the concept of low carbon, the Government can give a brief reply or the Secretary can tell us later whether there is a specific timetable and target for reducing carbon emissions. According to the government website, Hong Kong will abide by the Paris Agreement to reduce its carbon intensity by 65% to 70% by 2030 compared with the 2005 level, which is equivalent to 26% to 36% absolute reduction and a reduction to 3.3 to 3.8 tonnes per capita. However, how can our transport policy and urban planning contribute to achieving this target? Take for example the number of vehicles in Hong Kong, the number reached 746 000 in 2017, and the number of private cars had increased from some 402 000 in 2006 to 584 000 in 2017, representing an increase of 45%.

In addition, we often talk about formulating policy to promote the use of bicycle as a form of green transport, and many Members have also proposed to return the harbourfront to the public. Mr HUI Chi-fung once moved a Member's motion on designating bicycles as a mode of transport. How did the 4476 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Administration respond to the motion? The Government said that it did not encourage people to use bicycles as a mode of transport in urban areas. After reviewing the experience of many foreign countries, I think such a view is absurd. I often refer to the experience in my district, the Southern District. There is a cycle track but it is only 800 m long. Apart from this 800 m-long cycle track encircling the Cyberport, there are no other cycle tracks in the entire Southern District. In many foreign cities, residents are encouraged to commute by bicycles to nearby places without having to use private cars. However, Hong Kong has few ancillary facilities, and there is no policy to facilitate commuting by bicycles. We have proposed to the Government to build a cycle track along the coast of Hong Kong Island. On many occasions, I and members of community groups cycled from the Southern District, via the Central and Western District to the Wan Chai District in pursuit of a cycle track. Our efforts are in vain as such a project will not be commenced in the foreseeable future.

From the perspectives of planning, transport policy and the Government's mentality, Hong Kong is still far from becoming a green and low-carbon smart society and economy. We need to quicken our pace to catch up. In a nutshell, the Government has yet to give a clear definition of "green project", which can easily be interpreted as a pretext for supporting infrastructure projects and large-scale construction works. In their amendments, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok proposes to promote intellectualization of infrastructure, Mr KWOK Wai-keung proposes to provide tax and land concessions to green industries, and Dr Elizabeth QUAT and Mr Kenneth LEUNG propose to develop green finance. I cannot support these amendments, but I will support the original motion and other amendments.

I so submit.

MR CHAN KIN-POR (in Cantonese): President, global warming has caused extreme weather conditions, hence Hong Kong has been hit by severe typhoons, notably Super Typhoon Mangkhut in September. The damage was unprecedented, with tens of thousands of trees being blown down. The onslaught of Mangkhut has, I believe, aroused public concern about environmental issues. The motion moved by Mr Martin LIAO today serves to remind us to rethink whether we are doing enough to protect the Earth?

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4477

Carbon dioxide is the culprit for greenhouse effect, and we must reduce carbon emissions. In fact, the Government has done a lot of work in this regard in recent years. I remember that when I joined this Council in early 2008, I became a member of the Panel on Environmental Affairs and worked with other Members to urge the Government to provide $31 billion for replacing old diesel commercial vehicles. During my tenure of office, the Government also introduced legislation to ban idling engines, negotiated an emissions reduction agreement with the Guangdong province and enacted the Air Pollution Control Ordinance. The significant improvement in air pollution well reflects the Government's great effort in promoting environmental protection.

Yet, the Government's work in other areas has so far been unsatisfactory, particularly the promotion of electric vehicles. As we all know, fuel-driven vehicles is a major source of carbon emissions. At present, there are about 550 000 private cars in Hong Kong, but only 11 000 electric vehicles. We have been promoting electric cars for a decade, yet their prevalence has remained now. In fact, quite a number of countries are planning to ban completely the sale of fuel-driven vehicles, but the pace in Hong Kong has apparently been very slow. While the Government provides exemption of first registration tax for electric vehicles and a "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme to encourage car owners to switch to electric vehicles, the effects have been ineffective. In my opinion, this is mainly attributable to the lack of charging facilities. Currently there are only some 2 000 charging facilities throughout the territory. Even if people do have the intent to switch to electric vehicles, they eventually have to give up because the purchase of such cars is easy but charging is difficult.

I would like to share with Members my experience. I am the chairman of the owners' committee of a large housing estate, and I have been plagued by the issue concerning the installation of charging facilities for years. The study on feasible options alone took two years and the process was cumbersome, involving problems such as how to increase power supply, how to tackle the legal problems arisen, and who should pay for the expensive installation and maintenance costs. Fortunately, in recent years, the two power companies are willing to install charging facilities in housing estates. I learn that not all property management company is willing to install charging facilities; some small and medium property management companies refused to install charging facilities despite the request of owners. The reasons might be insufficient manpower and resources or fear of trouble. This has hindered the development of electric vehicles. Therefore, if the Government wishes to promote electric vehicles, it should make effort to tackle the problem of inadequate charging facilities. 4478 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Apart from government measures, personal habits also have a significant influence on the environment. In order to promote a low-carbon style of living, we must reduce energy consumption in daily life and reduce environmental pollution, such as using less electricity, using more energy efficient electrical appliances, recycling waste, taking public transport more often, using less paper and stop using plastic bags and disposable tableware. This year, the theme for the World Environment Day is Beat Plastic Pollution, entailing phasing out straws and plastic tableware. Through the Government's publicity, many members of the public have stopped using straws and disposable tableware, and many fast-food restaurants have stopped providing them. This reflects that these environmental initiatives are well received by the public.

In fact, if we slightly change our habits, we can contribute to reducing emissions. For example, while the passage of the Waste Disposal (Charging for Municipal Solid Waste) (Amendment) Bill 2018 may cause inconvenience to the public, it is conducive to changing our waste disposal habits and reducing the generation of waste, thereby reducing waste and carbon emissions. Even if we have to pay the waste levy, we should still support the Bill.

Another point worth mentioning is that smart city development facilitates reduction in carbon emissions. Many major cities in the Mainland are moving towards intelligent processes to save vast amounts of paper. In restaurants, for example, customers now use their mobile phones to read the menu, place orders and pay the bill. Hence, printed menus, dim sum order forms, order forms and bills are no longer required. This is only one of the many examples. I hope the Government will give more attention to environmental protection when examining urban development in the future.

Today, some Members once again raised the issue of artificial islands. Their criticisms are actually unduly overplaying the matter. In fact, carbon emission is inevitable, be it near-shore reclamation, development of brownfield sites or in areas of clothing, food, housing and transport. We should focus on minimizing the impact. The Government has clearly stated that it would adopt the new idea of "conservation first, development later" in taking forward the Lantau Tomorrow project; environmental impact assessments would be conducted in a scientific and objective manner, and reclamation works would be carried out in the most environmentally responsible way. I must stress that since the artificial island will be self-sufficient, it can be developed into a community with almost zero carbon emission by increasing the greening ratio and adopting LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4479 green transport modes, renewable sources of energy, energy-efficient designs as well as advanced recycling initiatives. Therefore, the artificial island will have a great edge in respect of environmental protection and emission reduction and will become an environmental-friendly community in Hong Kong. Such advantages cannot be found in other options.

Those who blindly oppose reclamation cannot fool the people of Hong Kong for long. While reclamation surely has risks and costs, it will bring more good than harm for members of the public. What we are discussing right now are material issues such as the provision of a roof over people's heads. In fact, eating can lead to choking; does that mean we should not eat? I so submit.

MR MA FUNG-KWOK (in Cantonese): President, nine members have proposed amendments to the motion moved by Mr Martin LIAO today on "Fully transforming into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and proactively alleviating and coping with global climate change". This reflects that this issue has aroused widespread concern and is crucial to the future sustainable development of Hong Kong.

As there are quite a number of amendments, I possibly do not have enough time to respond to each of them. I support the original motion of Mr Martin LIAO, but as it says "[t]his Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively", I think that apart from the Government, all members of the community must attach importance to and work together to meet this objective. On this issue, the Government should play the role of a leader, organizer and initiator. Yet the SAR Government's work in combating climate change and transforming Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy has so far been unsatisfactory.

President, according to a study report recently published by a local environmental group, when compared with five other Asian cities, namely Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Seoul, Tokyo and Singapore, Hong Kong was unsurprisingly found to have the worst performance. In particular, Hong Kong was ranked the lowest in terms of carbon intensity of electricity generation, targets of switching to renewable energy and proportion of electric vehicle replacement. The report also pointed out that the proportion of renewable energy consumption to total energy consumption in Hong Kong stands at an extreme low rate of 1% to 2%. Even according to the estimate of the SAR 4480 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Government in Hong Kong's Climate Action Plan 2030+, the proportion of renewable energy consumption stands at an extremely conservative rate of 3% to 4%.

Regarding the proportion of electric vehicles mentioned just now, according to the figures of the Transport Department, there were 10 906 electric private cars in Hong Kong as at September 2018, making up around 1.8% of all private cars. The number of electric vehicles has increased significantly when compared with the number of a decade ago. However, as the availability of charging facilities lags far behind demand, and the Government took a step backward last year in its financial incentives, the replacement rate of vehicles has dropped significantly. The increase in the proportion of electric vehicles in Hong Kong still lags behind other places. To make it worse, the Government has avoided setting a long-term proportion of electric vehicles as its policy objective. It should be obvious to all whether the Government is taking an active attitude. In my opinion, the Government's performance warrants criticism.

Next, I would like to talk about the policy on waste recovery and disposal. According to report A Food Waste & Yard Waste Plan for Hong Kong 2014-2022 issued in 2014, the Government plans to set up five to six organic resources recovery centres in Hong Kong, yet only one has been completed so far. The long-awaited funding for stage two of the plan was surprisingly rejected at a meeting of the Public Works Subcommittee two weeks ago, much to our dismay. On this matter, it is inappropriate to put the blame solely on the Government, as we, being Members, should play a more active role and show greater concern and support.

On the other hand, while we are talking about a green and low-carbon lifestyle, the disposal rate of municipal solid waste in Hong Kong has ironically been on the rise year after year. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan have implemented solid waste charging for quite some time and achieved satisfactory results in terms of waste reduction. Only Hong Kong still has qualms about moving forward. Due to various reasons, this Council has yet to reach a broad consensus on the policies and draft bills proposed recently by the Government. Let us honestly ask ourselves why we lag behind in so many respects. The various political groupings, political parties and interest groups in this Council should join hands with the Government and make a prompt decision to expeditiously perfect Hong Kong's policy on waste recovery and disposal.

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President, as typhoons Hato and Mangkhut had wrought havoc in Hong Kong, and threats of extreme weather affecting Hong Kong will likely be more frequent in the future, the SAR Government must draw a lesson, readily accept good advice, and be well prepared for taking precautions and follow-up actions, including coordinating traffic arrangements for post-disaster working days.

When it comes to environmental issues, Members are quick to point the finger at the Government. I think that is not enough. In order to do a good job in this regard, all members of the community need to attach importance to our mission and work together. The Government should play a proper leading role, whereas various political parties, social groups, enterprises and interest groups must set aside their own interests for the good of society as a whole, and join hands to actively face a changing climate and the challenges it poses.

While I do not entirely agree with the amendments of certain Members, I hope our colleagues and government officials can listen carefully to the debate today, and join hands to do what we should do concerning the promotion of a green and low-carbon smart society and economy and the policy on coping with climate change.

President, I so submit.

MR HO KAI-MING (in Cantonese): President, this is a very classic photograph taken after the onslaught of typhoon Mangkhut in Hong Kong, and I believe the Secretary should have seen it for no less than 10 times or so. In this photograph, a wage earner resembling former Legislative Council WONG Kwok-hing walks through a jungle-like place to his workplace, wearing a shirt and carrying a backpack. This is the portrayal of how numerous wage earners go to work on that day. Was it out of love or responsibility that drove these wage earners to work? I trust the Secretary goes to work out of love and responsibility because he definitely carries Hong Kong on his shoulders as an accountability official.

I can tell Members that wage earners in general go to work not out of love, and not necessarily out of responsibility, but they definitely go to work for bread and butter, which is a matter of course. Why did wage earners still go to work on that day under such adverse conditions? The reason is that there is no arrangement for suspension of work. In order to avoid their good attendance bonuses being withheld and to earn a living, all wage earners in Hong Kong must go to work on that day, no matter how hard it was. 4482 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

President, we are discussing a global issue today. We should not only have the Secretary for the Environment attending this meeting because this issue does not only relate to environmental protection, but an essential change of Hong Kong's overall policy objectives. I highly appreciate the efforts made by the Environment Bureau, yet this Bureau has the least power and funding―the Secretary is also smiling. Unlike the Development Bureau or the Transport and Housing Bureau, the Environment Bureau does not have strong power. It has to coordinate with other Policy Bureaux for implementing policies and measures, even the building of environmental protection facilities such as treatment plant for food waste can be vetoed. Environmental issues do not only involve the responsibilities of a single Policy Bureau; rather the philosophies of governance and policies of the entire Government should change in response to the environmental conditions. Therefore, it would be better if the Chief Secretary for Administration attended the meeting today to respond to the motion, but this is not the case. These issues should be under the purview of the Chief Secretary for Administration.

In the face of global climate change, Hong Kong not only has to take forward green policies and initiatives, but also has to formulate contingency measures for handling disasters caused by extreme weather. As the representatives of the labour sector, we must ask the Government if legislation can be enacted for work suspension after disasters so as to safeguard wage earners. If legislation is enacted and a similar situation occurs in the future, wage earners can go to work after the chaotic conditions in society have been cleared. Earlier on, The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions has submitted a bill on arrangements for work suspension during and after natural disasters to the Legislative Council, in the hope that better contingency arrangements can be made when Hong Kong is affected by inclement weather again, and that Hong Kong people have a consensus on work arrangement after disasters in case of extreme weather.

Many fellow colleagues have a diversity of views on addressing various issues involved, such as how good attendance bonus should be calculated and under what circumstances one can still claim good attendance bonus despite absence from work. The lives of Hong Kong people should be the prime concern. When the United States, the country which produces the highest emissions of greenhouse gases, withdrew from the agreement that controls global greenhouse gas emissions, we must be psychologically prepared for the impacts LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4483 of extreme weather in the next one or two decades, and the Government should also make better arrangements for the citizens of Hong Kong. When formulating policy arrangements in the future, the Secretary should discuss with the Chief Executive the possible measures to be taken in case of extremely adverse weather. The Chief Executive in Council should formulate the arrangements for suspension of classes and work in times of natural disasters, so that wage earners who fail to go to work under extremely adverse weather will not have their wages or good attendance bonuses deducted. Wage earners are not deliberately absent from work; they truly are unable to get to their workplaces.

According to the experience of our neighbouring countries and regions, this approach is actually feasible. For instance, during the onslaught of typhoon, the Guangzhou Municipal Headquarters for Flood Control and Typhoon Mitigation and Drought Relief may issue a general mobilization order to announce "three suspensions" citywide, i.e. suspension of work, production and classes. The Headquarters may order the commercial units of enterprises in the city to suspend their businesses immediately in accordance with the "three suspensions" requirements, so as to safeguard the lives and properties of businessmen and workers. This is the basic arrangement in Guangzhou city. Shenzhen, which is just a river away from Hong Kong, may issue an emergency mobilization order for typhoon and flood prevention. When Shenzhen was last hit by typhoon Mangkhut, the city made arrangements for "four suspensions", i.e. suspension of work, business, classes and trading. Taiwan has formulated the Operation Regulations on the Suspension of Offices and Classes because of Natural Disasters, whereby offices and classes may be suspended accordingly in times of destruction or obstruction caused by disasters.

When facing extreme disastersthis time we were hit by a typhoon, next time we might be affected by waterspout or other extreme weather condition, or even a hailstorm which had happened beforedo we have a mechanism to deal with and cope with the situation? Or do we just follow the general practices in the past? For instance, typhoon Wanda which hit Hong Kong decades ago might be less destructive when compared with typhoons of today; if we still adopt the past practices based on the knowledge previously acquired, that is, requiring employees to return to work upon cancellation of all Tropical Cyclone Warnings, I believe this practice is outdated.

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President, if you pay a visit to the community, you should see that there are still a lot of fallen trees and fallen road signs pending clearance. Several months have passed since typhoon Mangkhut hit Hong Kong and it is winter now, yet the clearance work has yet to be completed. This well illustrates the great destruction caused to Hong Kong at the time. If we still fail to keep pace with the situation today, we will be at our wits' end when faced with the huge destruction caused by severe and extreme weather in the future. This is not what a responsible government should do. I hope that next time when the Secretary acts up as the Acting Chief Secretary for Administration, he will make use of his capacity to coordinate various departments to make good arrangements to cope with extreme weather. This is what the Government (The buzzer sounded) … should do. Thank you, President.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HO, please stop speaking. Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, do you wish to speak?

MR CHAN CHI-CHUEN (in Cantonese): President, regarding Mr Martin LIAO's motion, I will focus on discussing how to review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change.

Regarding Mr LIAO's motion, I think no one will oppose the Government's act of encouraging various sectors to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. However, if Mainland China and the United States continue to emit greenhouse gases in an unrestrained manner, Hong Kong, being an economy of limited scale, cannot possibly reverse the trend of climate warming even if zero emission can be attained. Unfortunately, judging from the recent situation, neither Mainland China nor the United States seems to have the intention of reducing emission. For instance, in order to sustain economic growth, China allows factories with high emission to operate during winter this year, resulting in poor air quality over a large area. The United States' sincerity to reduce emission is called into doubt, given its withdrawal from the Paris Agreement on the global efforts in addressing climate change. If the two huge economies do not reduce emissions, greenhouse gases will definitely increase and the occurrence of extreme climate will thus become more frequent. Being a coastal city, Hong Kong will inevitably bear the brunt.

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Therefore, I agree that it is pressing to include in Mr Martin LIAO's motion the element of reviewing at an appropriate time and enhancing as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and respond to climate change. Concerning the successive onslaught of typhoons Hato and Mangkhut in Hong Kong in these two years, apart from indicating that extreme weather will become more and more frequent, the fact that Hong Kong has long been underestimating the damaging power of natural disasters while overestimating our competence in dealing with the aftermath has been fully exposed. Come and think about this. When reclaiming land for Heng Fa Chuen development, have we ever thought of huge waves inundating car parks and even meter rooms in the place during the onslaught of typhoons, resulting in several days of electricity suspension every year? When planning the Tseung Kwan O reclamation area, has it ever come to our mind that huge waves triggered by typhoons can instantly wash out most of the roads and facilities along the coast? It is ever harder for us to imagine that more than two months have passed since Typhoon Mangkhut hit Hong Kong, the city has yet to restore to its original state as pointed out by Mr HO Kai-ming just now. Not all fallen trees have been cleared and some traffic signs have yet been duly fixed. It can be seen from the photograph in my hand that a broken traffic sign in Lok Fu has not been restored more than two months after the typhoon disaster. The Government's competence in dealing with the aftermath should hence be improved.

The greatest challenge brought by climate change is that the intensity of extreme weather can far exceed what we had experienced in the past, and we have very often overestimated Hong Kong's competence in countering disasters and dealing with the aftermath. If the Government is rational, it will definitely re-examine its previous planning, infrastructures and remedial measures in a sensible, humble and scientific manner, so that Hong Kong can cope with the challenges of extreme weather more effectively. However, what is the case in Hong Kong now? I doubt if the Government can be rational and objective in assessing extreme weather risks. The recent Lantau Tomorrow reclamation project is a case in point.

Since Carrie LAM put forward in her Policy Address the imminent Lantau Tomorrow project of reclaiming 1 700 hectares of land, many minions of the Hong Kong communist regime have unhesitatingly expressed their support in a hysteric and reckless way, totally ignoring the potential risks that climate change might bring about to the artificial islands. Prior to the announcement of the Lantau Tomorrow project, Our Hong Kong Foundation released an even more 4486 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 outrageous report which advocated a 2 200-hectare reclamation project and estimated that the waves in Kau Yi Chau would at most be 2 m high. Such an absurd inference was immediately refuted by LAM Chiu-ying, former Director of the Hong Kong Observatory, who said that the inference had ignored the reality. However, nowadays Hong Kong people's right to tell the truth has indeed become more and more restrained. Mr LAM's remark immediately invited fierce criticisms from the pro-government camp and supporters of the Hong Kong communist regime. When Ping Chau and Cheung Chau residents and the former Director of the Hong Kong Observatory pointed out that the locations of the artificial islands might be affected by huge waves, the Government turned a deaf ear; when we asked the Government when it would announce the results of the preliminary study mentioned by Carrie LAM, so that we could understand from the data of the study the threats of extreme weather on the artificial islands and how the inference was made, the authorities said that they had to examine if this internal study could be made public. More than two months have passed and the Government has still not released the full text of its preliminary study.

The Government takes no heed of the opposing views based on rational scientific arguments, ignores the possible risks from extreme climate, and vows to take forward the reclamation works for the artificial islands. It can thus be seen that in this age of acute and drastic climate change, the Government does not take a rational and scientific manner to examine the risks to be faced by future infrastructures and planning; instead, it allows politics to override everything. I request the Government to commence a study as soon as possible to examine the capabilities of existing infrastructures to withstand extreme weather. The Government should not keep saying, after each disaster, that Hong Kong has no relevant experience as the disaster only happened once in 10, 30, 50 or even 100 years, implying that the Government has never encountered and anticipated the situation and hence it was normal that it could not cope with the situation. We are exactly asking the Government to repair the house before it rains.

(THE PRESIDENT'S DEPUTY, MS STARRY LEE, took the Chair)

As I pointed out in the debate on the Motion of Thanks, the Government has now adopted the mentality of the Great Leap Forward in deciding to take forward the reclamation project. The belief of the Government is that "the bolder the man is, the higher yields the fields will turn out". Although the LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4487

Government will subsequently spend $500 million to conduct the so-called preliminary study, yet given the blatant precondition of the Government, the consultant to conduct the feasibility study may have no choice but to say that the artificial island project is feasible even if he knows that the artificial islands cannot possibly withstand extreme weather. The Government will certainly say that it will look for solutions only when problems arise.

Therefore, when facing the challenge of irreversible climate change and increasingly frequent extreme weather, our biggest enemy is not the weather but human beings and the Government's mindset. If the Government accords priority to politics and, under the influence from the Hong Kong communist powers, continues to override scientific analyses and sensible discussions with political missions, then it will roll out more planning and infrastructure projects that ignore the risks from climate change, thereby exposing the lives of Hong Kong people to the unnecessary threats of extreme weather.

MR JEREMY TAM (in Cantonese): Deputy President, our discussion today is about green and low-carbon smart society and economy. Many fellow colleagues mentioned electric vehicles. This is really good because at yesterday's oral questions session, the official who attended the meeting and responded to Members' questions was also Secretary WONG Kam-sing. We also discussed the "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme for electric vehicles. Dr KWOK Ka-ki's amendment also proposes policies in this regard; hence I will make good use of this occasion today to raise the comments that I did not have the time to voice yesterday.

First of all, I will not comment on whether there are problems with the Secretary's policy on the "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme for electric vehicles. This is a policy based on the Bureau's projection, right? Simply put, the Secretary formulates policies on the basis of certain projections. At present, Hong Kong has a population of 7.4 million. If the Government suddenly says that the housing plans will be reviewed after three years of observation, but it turns out that the Government has made a mistake when making the population projection, then I must point out the mistake. Now, should this policy on electric vehicles be reviewed three years later, as stated by Secretary WONG Kam-sing yesterday?

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For instance, Hong Kong currently has a population of about 7.4 million. I assume the number to be 7.5 million to facilitate calculation. Suppose there are 50 000 births every year, will the Secretary, based on this condition, tell me that there will be 8 million people in Hong Kong 10 years later? If we multiply 50 000 births each year by 10 years, there will be 500 000 people, and together with the original 7.5 million people, we will have 8 million people. Therefore, the Government has formulated its plans and policies based on the projection that there will be 8 million people in Hong Kong 10 years later. When the Bureau announced its plans and policies, I pointed out that there would be problems as the base numbers were incorrect. However, the Bureau said there was no problem and they would review the effectiveness of the policies three years later. The most significant problem with the example I cited just now is that the authorities only provided the number of births but not the number of deaths. As such, the actual population 10 years later might remain at 7.5 million, 7.4 million or 7.3 million; or there might be a slight increase but definitely would not reach 8 million because there must be deaths.

The Secretary has adopted the same line of thought when dealing with the projected number of electric vehicles. According to the numbers provided by the Secretary in his reply to Ms Tanya CHAN's written question on 24 October, the number of vehicles with its owner having owned it for three years or more without interruption was 186 000 as at 31 March 2018. The Secretary projected that the number would increase to 474 000 in 2021, i.e. the number of vehicles that satisfies the criteria of the Scheme will increase to almost 300 000. If the Secretary had thought about the logic therein, he should have known that this would not be the case. But why would the Secretary make such projection? That is because the Secretary assumed that no one would sell his car in these few years and people would only buy but not sell their cars in these years. I do not know how the colleagues of the Secretary arrive at such projected figures. My remark is reasonable and logical.

In his reply to an oral question yesterday, the Secretary said that since the projected number of vehicles would reach 470 000 three years later, and all these vehicles were eligible to apply for the "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme, there was no need to consider revising the policy. Deputy President, there are around 600 000 private cars in Hong Kong; in other words, three fourths of the cars are eligible to apply for the "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme. If there were really 470 000 eligible vehicles three years later, it was indeed not necessary for the authorities to change the threshold. This is correct. However, Secretary, this is not going to happen. The Secretary assumes that the owners of 300 000 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4489 vehicles are not going to buy or sell their vehicles for some unknown reasons. That is to say, originally owners might replace their vehicles every three to four years, but the projected scenario is that they will not sell their vehicles even after three years; consequently, the number of eligible vehicle will increase from the original 180 000 to 470 000, which is just impossible. This is tantamount to telling us that people will live forever. There are 50 000 births every year, and with 7.5 million people at the moment, the population will definitely reach 8 million 10 years later because no one is going to die. Worst of all, the Secretary's current projection is tantamount to such a calculation.

If the Secretary formulates his policies based on facts and correct projection, and indicates that more time is required to examine the implementation of the policies, I think there are no problems at all. However, the Secretary's rationale and logics are founded on quicksand, and even wrong projections in my view, why does he refuse to make changes? Why does the Secretary keep on bumping his head against the wall? He should not do so. If I am wrong, will the Secretary please point out the mistakes in my calculation. I do not know which staff have made such projection for the Secretary. The Secretary might ask them to make a reverse projection, not based on the figures of 2018, but on the figures of previous years, say 2017, 2016, 2015 or 2014, to see how many vehicles satisfied the criterion of having been owned by the owner for three years without interruption and were thus eligible for the "One-for-One Replacement" Scheme. I dare say that the estimated number of vehicles would not be too far away from 170 000 or 180 000. What does this prove? It proves that the Bureau is wrong in its calculation.

In fact, we do not mind if the Government or officials have made wrong projections. What I found most unsettling is that when I told them their mistakes, they still refused to admit and refused to think with common sense. As reflected in the example on population projection just now, the figure projected is based on the fact that there are no deaths in five years' time. The Secretary is now adopting a similar projection. The people and the legislature of Hong Kong cannot accept the following scenario: When Members tell a government official that his saying is against common sense, he simply ignores the advice and keeps bumping his head against the wall. The official decided a year ago to bump his head against the wall, taking no heed whether the distance between his body and the wall was 10 m or 5 m. In fact, the distance is just 2 m apart. Hence when the Secretary bumps his head, he will really get hurt.

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MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Cantonese): Deputy President, the problem of global climate change has become increasingly serious. Due to climate change, the weather has been more abnormal than ever. In early December this year, the weather was still fairly warm and we could still wear short-sleeved clothes. The weather has only turned slightly cooler in recent days.

The melting of glaciers in North Pole and South Pole has resulted in the rise in sea level. Coastal regions and cities have been hit by floods or typhoons more frequently. In China, the melting of glaciers has also accelerated in Qinghai, Gansu and Xinjiang provinces. Some experts speculated that glacier melting was the main reason for the two serious floods in Western China in the past four months. Apart from flooding, other inclement weather conditions, such as storms, snowstorms, very hot weather and very cold weather, have constantly affected various parts of the world, and Hong Kong cannot remain unaffected as well.

During the past few years, the hoisting of gale signal No. 9 and hurricane signal No. 10 have been more frequent. In particular, in September this year, the onslaught of super typhoon Mangkhut brought extremely inclement weather and broke some storm records in terms of wind speed and storm duration, etc. In addition, super typhoon Mangkhut also wreaked havoc in many areas, such as serious flooding, tree collapse and building destruction. A number of experts have pointed out that climate change will result in increasing inclement weather conditions because with rising sea temperature, storms in the South Pacific can absorb more energy and thus develop into super typhoons more easily. Hence, The Hong Kong Federation of Trade Unions ("FTU") urges the Government to be forward-looking. Apart from paying attention to climate change, the Government should also care about the safety of wage earners commuting to and from work under inclement weather conditions.

During the onslaught of Mangkhut, the extremely high wind speed caused serious destructions across the city, blocking roads and paralysing traffic. Even in the first two days after the Tropical Cyclone Warning Signal was no longer in force, the public transportation system basically remained in a state of complete standstill. Even the railway system was in a semi-paralysed state. As we all know, the East Rail Line had come to a complete standstill, and it had taken a few days for buses to fully resume normal service. On days when classes were suspended but workers still had to go to work, Hong Kong people behaved in an adorable way. Wage earners respect and enjoy their work. They insisted on LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4491 going to work despite the adverse conditions, being really undaunted and highly responsible. However, due to this sense of responsibility, the working people had to travel to work as if they were taking part in a cross-country competition. They had to climb up mountains, wade through rivers, push branches aside, and wait for a few hours at bus or railway stations before arriving at their workplace. Was this situation highly desirable? Should Hong Kong people go that far to epitomize their can-do spirit? Railway platforms were jammed with people and ventilation was so poor that many people fainted. Some workers who failed to show up had their wage deducted, and even those who made it to their workplace might have their wage or attendance bonus deducted for being late. We may say their employers are unscrupulous. However, a more important problem is that there are no relevant laws to protect employees.

FTU conducted a survey after Mangkhut passed through Hong Kong and found that 7% of employees polled had their wage or attendance bonus deducted for being late on that day, and 19% of employees polled had their wage or annual leave deducted for failing to show up at work. Although the Chief Executive had repeatedly appealed to employers for "mutual accommodation and mutual understanding"―a phrase which had been reiterated that day―quite a number of employees still had their wage or leave day deducted. As you can imagine, the kind and compassionate exhortation of the Chief Executive could not solve the problem at all. After all, how can employees be properly protected?

As the Secretary for the Environment is in charge of environmental affairs, he may not be very familiar with labour welfare issues. However, I still hope that the Secretary will relay the problem to the entire political accountability team. The current Code of Practice in times of Typhoons and Rainstorms ("Code of Practice") is actually a non-binding "toothless tiger", under which employers and employees are still required to negotiate whether it is necessary to work under inclement weather conditions. However, in the so-called negotiation, the bosses will make the final decision. In reality, some bosses require employees to go to work regardless of which tropical cyclone warning signal is hoisted, even if it were signal No. 1 000. Therefore, wage earners are completely unprotected.

According to the Government, given the lack of authority or legal basis to issue a cease work order, it has no alternative but to require employees to go to work despite the risks involved. However, it is really undesirable for employees 4492 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 to risk travelling to work. Hence, we have proposed a legislative proposal to prescribe the requirement for a work suspension arrangement with legal effect during and after natural disasters and in emergencies. In order to provide employees with better protection under inclement weather conditions in the future, we have proposed formulating a bill on arrangements for work suspension during and after natural disasters, which has already been submitted to the relevant Panel for discussion.

Under this legislative proposal, a natural disaster and emergency response committee will be formed by employees, employers and the Government to determine the criteria for work suspension. Then, the Chief Executive in Council will make decision on the arrangement for work suspension. During work suspension, apart from civil servants who take part in rescue work and emergency services, all government departments and public and private organizations are required to suspend operation. Still, more importantly, once work suspension is announced, employers cannot deduct the wage and leave of, or impose any punishment on, employees who fail to discharge their duties. It is an offence for employers to punish or undermine the rights and interests of employees. Offenders are liable to a fine of $350,000 or a maximum imprisonment for three years. To ensure that the emergency committee has sufficient representativeness … 

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LUK, please come back to the question under debate.

MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Cantonese): In fact, this is related to the question under debate. In response to climate changes, labour laws have to progress with the times by scraping the requirement for wage earners to go to work under inclement weather conditions.

In addition, it is also necessary to amend the current Employees' Compensation Ordinance. At present, under the Employees' Compensation Ordinance, when Tropical Cyclone Warning Signal No. 8 or above or Red/Black Rainstorm Warning Signal is in force, an accident to an employee shall be deemed to arise only if it happens to the employee commuting to and from work within a period of four hours before or after his working hours. However, in LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4493 some cases, even after the Tropical Cyclone Warning Signal or Red/Black Rainstorm Warning Signal is cancelled, the weather can remain very unfavourable. It will still be very risky commuting to and from work during that period. Hence, we have proposed an amendment to the Employees' Compensation Ordinance to extend the coverage to any injuries sustained by employees commuting to and from work within four hours under inclement weather conditions after the signals have been cancelled. The amendment seeks to make the law justifiable and reasonable.

In the past, we criticized the Code of Practice for failing to protect employees, (The buzzer sounded) … it instead only seeks to facilitate operation …

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr LUK, your speaking time is up.

MR LUK CHUNG-HUNG (in Cantonese): … therefore, I hope we can progress with the times by improving the legislation.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Please stop speaking.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Does any other Member wish to speak?

(No Member indicated a wish to speak)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Martin LIAO, you may now speak on the amendments. The time limit is five minutes.

MR MARTIN LIAO (in Cantonese): Deputy President, first of all, I very much welcome Members from various political parties and groupings to support this motion and agree that Hong Kong needs to fully transform itself into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, so as to cope with the deteriorating problem of global climate change.

4494 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

This motion is intended to transcend political considerations and encourage people to jointly examine and face the problem of climate change that threatens human beings. Deputy President, as I said earlier, this motion involves an extensive coverage, but due to time constraint, we cannot cover all areas comprehensively. Thanks to the amendments proposed by other Members, which set out their areas of concern, the discussion on this motion has been greatly enriched. For example, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok proposes promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and a regional smart city cluster; Mr KWOK Wai-keung proposes establishing a fund to develop green industries; Mr Charles Peter MOK proposes using data and promoting the research and development of new green technologies. Mr HUI Chi-fung, Dr Elizabeth QUAT and Dr KWOK Ka-ki propose promoting the use of bicycles and formulating a plastic-free timetable; and Mr CHU Hoi-dick proposes stepping up support to the disadvantaged in coping with climate change. I find it difficult to list all their proposals, but all of these proposals are worthy of active consideration.

However, some of the proposals are debatable. For example, the "carbon tax" proposed by Mr CHU is a new thing to Hong Kong. Both carbon tax and emissions trading I mentioned earlier are covered under a carbon pricing system which also adopts the "polluter pays" principle to promote decarbonization through economic means. As estimated by the World Bank, the two systems can help reduce global greenhouse gas emissions by some 20% this year. The two systems are adopted by different countries, and some countries have even adopted both systems concurrently, but the implementation details of the systems are different. As regards the decision on which system to be adopted as well as the implementation timetable and details, they are still subject to the exploration of various parties and the arguments of academics; no definitive answer can be given.

In the case of carbon tax, the most common argument is that the governments find it difficult to determine the most suitable tax rates. While an excessively high tax rate will jeopardize the overall economy, an excessively low tax rate will adversely affect emission reduction. Australia implemented a carbon tax for two years. It collected carbon tax from 500 enterprises with the highest carbon emissions, and enhanced financial assistance to the middle and lower classes, but ultimately, small and medium enterprises and households were overburdened. It was reported that carbon tax accounted for as high as 30% of the electricity charges of small and medium enterprises, resulting in closure of LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4495 businesses and in turn, unemployment problems. The Parliament of Australia thus revoked the carbon tax. In the case of Hong Kong, as 99% of enterprises are small and medium enterprises, should we not act in a more prudent manner? What about the level of acceptance in society? We should not forget that we are duty-bound to maintain the simple and low tax regime of Hong Kong.

Deputy President, there are many tools of decarbonization, and it is of vital importance that various places make a choice depending on their own circumstances. I have no intention to initiate an academic debate on any carbon pricing system, but based on the aforementioned considerations, I can hardly support this action-oriented amendment, which advises the authorities on "conducting a study on levying a progressive 'carbon tax'". I will abstain from voting on this amendment.

Mr Gary FAN proposes to stop the construction of artificial islands through reclamation, aiming his spear at Lantau Tomorrow Vision. Deputy President, under the circumstances of climate change, risk management surrounding artificial islands is certainly important, and the Government must conduct adequate scientific and professional assessment to allay public concern. However, as Mr FAN's amendment blindly calls for a boycott, refuses to make progress and is absolutely unjustified, I can by no means agree with it, and I will therefore vote against it.

Deputy President, I so submit.

SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I once again thank Mr Martin LIAO very much for moving this motion and nine Members for proposing their amendments. I am pleased to hear that all Members who have spoken basically support the Government to step up the work on combating climate change, and they have expressed their valuable views in various areas. As I said in my opening remarks, in recent years the Government has enhanced cooperation across departments, and performed tasks to combat climate change in the three areas of mitigation, adaptation and resilience. Having summarized the information provided by the relevant Policy Bureaux and departments of the Government, I will give a concise consolidated reply in nine aspects.

4496 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

(a) Mitigating climate change―electricity generation and renewable energy

The first aspect is to mitigate climate change in the area of electricity generation.

As electricity generation accounts for about two thirds of Hong Kong's carbon emissions, we must adopt a more environmentally-friendly means of electricity generation as a start to reduce carbon emissions. To this end, we will implement a series of measures to perfect the fuel mix, develop renewable energy, and examine the potential of renewable energy in Hong Kong in a timely manner. Such measures include:

(i) replacing the coal-fired generating plants due to retire gradually in the coming decade with more natural gas generation;

(ii) introducing the Feed-in Tariff to provide incentives for individuals and non-government bodies to invest in renewable energy. The two power companies introduced/will introduce a Feed-in Tariff Scheme in October this year and January next year respectively, and they have been receiving applications for the schemes. The initial response from the community has been positive, and the two power companies have so far received over 1 000 applications in total;

(iii) appropriately relaxing the restrictions on the installation of solar photovoltaic systems at the rooftops of buildings. Subject to the fulfilment of specified conditions, photovoltaic systems not greater than 2.5 m in height may be installed at the rooftops of New Territories Exempted Houses ("village houses") such that residents may continue to use their rooftops for legal purposes while combating climate change. The Government will also make appropriate relaxations for the rooftops of other private buildings, particularly low-rise ones;

(iv) introducing legislative amendments to exempt individuals from the requirements to apply for business registration and file profits tax returns in respect of the installation of small-scale renewable energy systems at their residential premises for participating in a Feed-in Tariff Scheme;

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4497

(v) introducing new subsidy schemes to assist schools and non-governmental welfare organizations in installing small-scale renewable energy systems; and

(vi) studying the installation of large-scale floating solar power systems at suitable locations in reservoirs, and also considering the installation of solar power systems at suitable landfills. We have earmarked $1 billion to support various Policy Bureaux and departments to develop small-scale renewable energy projects at appropriate government premises.

(b) Mitigating climate change―energy efficiency and conservation

Electricity consumption in buildings accounts for some 90% of the total electricity consumption in Hong Kong, and their greenhouse gas emissions account for over 60% of the total emissions in Hong Kong. For this reason, in the second aspect, I hope to explain to Members how to mitigate climate change as far as energy efficiency is concerned.

The Government is progressively implementing the Energy Saving Plan for Hong Kong's Built Environment 2015-2025+, and comprehensively taking forward green architecture and energy-saving measures, including district cooling systems. The latest developments and new cases are as follows:

First, the Government has given a lead by setting a target of reducing electricity consumption in government buildings by 5% during the five financial years from 2015-2016 to 2019-2020. To this end, we have completed energy audits on about 340 government buildings, and earmarked about $900 million for progressively implementing energy saving projects; we are gearing up to conduct retro-commissioning progressively in suitable major government buildings, and we will encourage Policy Bureaux and departments to apply for green building certification, namely BEAM Plus, for existing buildings under their management. The Electrical and Mechanical Services Department has also launched a platform for innovation and technology collaboration, E&M InnoPortal, which aims at matching the needs of government departments for applying new technologies with the start-up projects of start-up enterprises, so as to promote the commercialization of the results of scientific researches, and foster the development of a low-carbon smart city.

4498 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

As regards promoting energy saving for all, we provide tax concessions to allow the capital expenditure on energy-saving installations to be fully deducted in the first year of purchase, instead of five years as previously stipulated. In addition, under the new Scheme of Control Agreements, the two power companies will significantly step up the promotion of energy conservation and green architecture, including supporting existing buildings to undergo energy-saving retrofitting and retro-commissioning. Meanwhile, the two power companies also plan to replace all traditional electromechanical meters with smart meters, so as to facilitate the collection of electricity consumption data, and thus take forward further tasks for smart energy conservation.

(c) Mitigating climate change―green transport

Transport is one of the major sources of emissions in Hong Kong, and emissions from transport make up about 16% of the total carbon emissions in Hong Kong. I will therefore talk about the reduction of transport-related emissions in the third aspect. In this connection, the Government has adopted a multi-pronged approach, including encouraging the public to use public transport; encouraging the public to walk; creating a "bicycle-friendly" environment; supporting the industry to use clean energy commercial vehicles; introducing the Pilot Green Transport Fund to prompt the industry to apply for the trials of green innovative transport technologies, and reviewing its funding scope to promote wider use of green transport technologies in the industry; and subsidizing the trials of single-deck electric buses by franchised bus companies.

Regarding the extension of the railway network, with the implementation of new railway projects under the Railway Development Strategy 2014, the rail share in the public transport system would rise to 45% to 50% of the total number of public transport trips by 2031, and a reduction in road-based transport is expected. This would translate into environmental benefits amounting to a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by some 143 000 tonnes per year, namely, a reduction of greenhouse gas emissions in the transport sector by some 2% per year.

The Government has all along been encouraging the use of new energy vehicles in the hope that all newly registered private cars in Hong Kong will eventually be new energy vehicles in the long run. As the first step, we propose ceasing the first registration of diesel private cars subject to consultation with stakeholders. We will also consider whether to cease the first registration of diesel motorcycles. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4499

(d) Mitigating climate change―waste reduction and waste treatment

As carbon emissions from waste accounted for around 6% of the total carbon emissions in Hong Kong in 2016, I would like to talk about how to mitigate climate change through waste reduction in the fourth aspect. We are implementing the various waste reduction initiatives under the Hong Kong: Blueprint for Sustainable Use of Resources 2013-2022. Under a multi-pronged approach, we presented the Waste Disposal (Charging for Municipal Solid Waste) (Amendment) Bill 2018 to the Legislative Council last month, so as to implement municipal solid waste charging, thus providing financial incentives for waste reduction, driving behavioural and cultural changes, and facilitating waste reduction at source.

Furthermore, the Government has also adopted a multi-pronged approach to encourage recycling. For example, the Advisory Committee on Recycling Fund has announced a series of facilitating measures, including simplifying the application procedure, increasing the amount of funding earmarked for the industry to purchase equipment, expanding the list of equipment eligible for funding support, increasing the funding support for rental expenses arising from the new recycling business, and introducing projects with specific themes to dovetail with the development of the industry.

In addition, the Government is progressively implementing various producer responsibility schemes, including the levy scheme for plastic shopping bags as well as producer responsibility schemes related to regulated electrical and electronic equipment, glass beverage containers and plastic beverage containers, so as to promote waste reduction at source and develop a circular economy, thus realizing waste-to-resources transformation and reduction in waste and carbon emissions.

(e) Climate change adaptation

Climate change adaptation is the fifth aspect which I would like to explain to Members of our work progress. The Government has established the Climate Change Work Group on Infrastructure, so as to coordinate the work among works departments in climate change adaptation and enhance protection against extreme weather.

The Government has long been promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture. For example, the Water Supplies Department is actively establishing a Water Intelligent Network by setting up 4500 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

District Metering Areas to collect data from the water supply networks, with a view to implementing cost-effective water mains repair and improvement works strategically. The Drainage Services Department has also adopted the "sponge city" concept in large-scale drainage improvement works to simulate the natural water cycling system, facilitate the infiltration, natural purification and reuse of rainwater, and minimize water runoff for containing flooding, thus enhancing our city's resilience to flooding.

Regarding improving urban design, the Hong Kong 2030+: Towards a Planning Vision and Strategy Transcending 2030 has proposed the framework for a city strategy for being smart, green and resilient as well as other ideas, such as a green and water space plan and reshaping travel pattern, with a view to combating climate change.

(f) Resilience to climate change

The sixth aspect that I want to talk about is to enhance our resilience to climate change. Regarding contingency measures formulated in response to extreme weather, the Government maintains a Contingency Plan for Natural Disasters, which sets out the Government's alert system and the organizational framework for responding to natural disasters including tropical cyclones, as well as the functions and responsibilities of government departments and other organizations.

In September, super typhoon Mangkhut struck Hong Kong and caused extensive damage, but fortunately there was no loss of human life. After the typhoon, the Chief Executive immediately appointed the Secretary for Security to coordinate the review of how to cope with super typhoons, and explore improvement proposals in such areas as prevention, emergency response, recovery and communication. The review as a whole is expected to be concluded before the typhoon season next year.

(g) Developing green finance

The work on combating climate change is not limited to the environment and public works projects. Green finance, the seventh aspect I will talk about, is a case in point. In recent years, various places across the world have been actively developing green economy, and introduced international funding for some low-carbon projects or projects related to combating climate change.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4501

In June this year, the SAR Government launched the Green Bond Grant Scheme to subsidize eligible green bond issuers in obtaining certification under the Green Finance Certification Scheme. Meanwhile, in order to promote the development of green finance in Hong Kong, the Government has launched the Government Green Bond Programme with a borrowing ceiling of HK$100 billion for funding green public works projects of the Government.

(h) International and regional cooperation

International and regional cooperation is very important. Hong Kong has actively engaged in international cooperation and exchanges concerning climate action, and became a member of the Steering Committee of C40 in 2011. In recent years, we have also attended the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change as members of the national delegation. In addition, the SAR Government and the Guangdong Provincial Government have established the Hong Kong/Guangdong Joint Liaison Group on Combating Climate Change and, through a work plan for Hong Kong and Guangdong to combat climate change, engage in regional cooperation in adapting to and mitigating climate change.

(i) Long-term decarbonization strategy

The final aspect is how to formulate a longer-term decarbonization strategy for Hong Kong.

To combat climate change, the Government established in 2016 the Steering Committee on Climate Change under the chairmanship of the Chief Secretary for Administration to steer and coordinate the climate actions of various Policy Bureaux and departments, and released Hong Kong's Climate Action Plan 2030+ in January 2017, setting out in detail the targets and key measures on mitigation, adaptation and resilience to combat climate change. On the basis of the level of Hong Kong's carbon intensity in 2005, our target is to reduce our carbon intensity by 65% to 70% by 2030, which is equivalent to an absolute reduction of 26% to 36%, so as to align with the target of the Paris Agreement to limit the increase in the global average temperature to well below 2°C above preindustrial levels.

Pursuant to the Paris Agreement, all Parties should strive to formulate and communicate long-term low greenhouse gas emission development strategies by 2020. As part of China and a responsible member of the global community, Hong Kong should draw up by 2020 a long-term decarbonization strategy for up 4502 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 to 2050. To this end, the Government has invited the Council for Sustainable Development to conduct a public engagement exercise in early 2019, which will include collecting public views on whether and, if so, at what level a specific carbon reduction target for 2050 should be set. I welcome members of the public, including various Members, to actively submit their views to the Council for Sustainable Development, so that Hong Kong can formulate a longer-term decarbonization strategy.

(j) Conclusion

Deputy President, typhoon Hato last year and super typhoon Mangkhut this year caused widespread damage to Hong Kong, giving rise to storm surge that led to severe inundation in some low-lying areas. As climate change contributes to the continuous rise in sea level, the challenges posed by extreme weather will be severer. There is an urgent need to combat climate change.

For this reason, we will continue to implement and strengthen our work plan of combating climate change, and join hands with various social sectors and members of the public to move towards low-carbon living. In April this year, the Government launched a "Low Carbon Living Calculator", which helps people assess their carbon emissions in respect of clothing, food, living and travel in their daily life. The Government also offers decarbonization tips and launches public education to facilitate a more active transformation into a green and low-carbon society. Finally, I would like to thank again various Members who have spoken on this motion for expressing their views and concerns about the work on combating climate change.

Thank you, Deputy President.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now call upon Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok to move an amendment.

IR DR LO WAI-KWOK (in Cantonese): Deputy President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion be amended.

The amendment moved by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok (See the marked-up version at Annex 3)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4503

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok be passed.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr CHU Hoi-dick rose to claim a division.

DEPUTY PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHU Hoi-dick has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for five minutes.

(While the division bell was ringing, THE PRESIDENT resumed the Chair)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr James TO, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr IP 4504 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Kin-yuen, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr KWONG Chun-yu and Mr Tony TSE voted for the amendment.

Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung voted against the amendment.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Helena WONG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr LAM Cheuk-ting, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the amendment.

Ms Claudia MO, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Dr CHENG Chung-tai and Mr AU Nok-hin voted against the amendment.

Dr Fernando CHEUNG and Mr Gary FAN abstained.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 23 were in favour of the amendment and 1 against it; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 25 were present, 18 were in favour of the amendment, 5 against it and 2 abstained. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4505

MS STARRY LEE (in Cantonese): President, I move that in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of the motion on "Fully transforming into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and proactively alleviating and coping with global climate change" or any amendments thereto, this Council do proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell has been rung for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Ms Starry LEE be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority respectively of each of the two groups of Members, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, who are present. I declare the motion passed.

I order that in the event of further divisions being claimed in respect of the motion on "Fully transforming into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and proactively alleviating and coping with global climate change" or any amendments thereto, this Council do proceed to each of such divisions immediately after the division bell has been rung for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung, as Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's amendment has been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

4506 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

MR HUI CHI-FUNG (in Cantonese): President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok be further amended by my revised amendment.

The further amendment moved by Mr HUI Chi-fung to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok (See the marked-up version at Annex 4)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr HUI Chi-fung to Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr HUI Chi-fung rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4507

Functional Constituencies:

Mr James TO, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr CHAN Chun-ying and Mr KWONG Chun-yu voted for the amendment.

Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr LUK Chung-hung and Mr Tony TSE voted against the amendment.

Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Christopher CHEUNG and Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Ms Claudia MO, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Dr Helena WONG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Gary FAN, Mr AU Nok-hin, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the amendment.

Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Ms Alice MAK and Mr KWOK Wai-keung voted against the amendment.

Dr CHENG Chung-tai abstained.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 11 were in favour of the amendment, 7 against it and 6 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical 4508 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 19 were in favour of the amendment, 4 against it and 1 abstained. Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was negatived.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr KWOK Wai-keung, as Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's amendment has been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

MR KWOK WAI-KEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok be further amended by my revised amendment.

The further amendment moved by Mr KWOK Wai-keung to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok (See the marked-up version at Annex 5)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr KWOK Wai-keung to Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr Gary FAN rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Gary FAN has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4509

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr James TO, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung and Mr KWONG Chun-yu voted for the amendment.

Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung voted against the amendment.

Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok and Mr Tony TSE abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Helena WONG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the amendment.

Mrs Regina IP, Ms Claudia MO, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Dr CHENG Chung-tai and Mr Jeremy TAM voted against the amendment.

Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr Gary FAN and Mr AU Nok-hin abstained.

4510 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 19 were in favour of the amendment, 1 against it and 4 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 13 were in favour of the amendment, 6 against it and 5 abstained. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Members have already been informed that as Mr KWOK Wai-keung's amendment has been passed, Dr KWOK Ka-ki has withdrawn his amendment.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Charles Peter MOK, as the amendments of Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr KWOK Wai-keung have been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

MR CHARLES PETER MOK (in Cantonese): President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr KWOK Wai-keung be further amended by my revised amendment.

The further amendment moved by Mr Charles Peter MOK to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr KWOK Wai-keung (See the marked-up version at Annex 6)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr Charles Peter MOK to Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr KWOK Wai-keung be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4511

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr AU Nok-hin rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr AU Nok-hin has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

(While the division bell was ringing, a mobile phone went off)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Incidents of mobile phones going off have happened from time to time during the recent meetings. Will Members please switch their mobile phones to silent mode.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr James TO, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr KWONG Chun-yu and Mr Tony TSE voted for the amendment.

Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

4512 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Helena WONG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Mr Gary FAN, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the amendment.

Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Mr Alvin YEUNG and Mr Jeremy TAM voted against the amendment.

Ms Claudia MO, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Dr CHENG Chung-tai and Mr AU Nok-hin abstained.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 23 were in favour of the amendment and 1 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 16 were in favour of the amendment, 3 against it and 5 abstained. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Gary FAN, as the amendments of Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK have been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

MR GARY FAN (in Cantonese): President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be further amended by my revised amendment.

The further amendment moved by Mr Gary FAN to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (See the marked-up version at Annex 7)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4513

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr Gary FAN to Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr Gary FAN rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Gary FAN has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr James TO, Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen and Mr KWONG Chun-yu voted for the amendment.

4514 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr Martin LIAO, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung and Mr Tony TSE voted against the amendment.

Mr POON Siu-ping abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Ms Claudia MO, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Dr Helena WONG, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Dr CHENG Chung-tai, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Gary FAN and Mr AU Nok-hin voted for the amendment.

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted against the amendment.

Dr Fernando CHEUNG abstained.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 6 were in favour of the amendment, 17 against it and 1 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 13 were in favour of the amendment, 10 against it and 1 abstained. Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was negatived.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4515

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHU Hoi-dick, as the amendments of Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK have been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be further amended by my revised amendment.

I would like to explain briefly why I proposed a further amendment. According to the new target set this October by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change for governments around the world, absolute carbon emission must be reduced by 50% by 2030, but so far the SAR Government can only reduce the emission by 36%. In my opinion, unless we set a target in the light of the actual situation that would actually save us from climate disasters, all future policy discussions would be illusory and would not be conducive to really resolving the problem.

Another reason why I proposed an amendment to the motion is to suggest conducting a study on levying a progressive "carbon tax". I have heard Members mention that…

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHU Hoi-dick, you can only speak on the revised wordings in your amendment. You cannot make reference to other matters.

MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): President, I did not hear what you said.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHU, I am aware that you often fail to hear what I say, but I will now repeat. You can only speak on the revised wordings in your amendment. You cannot make reference to other matters. You cannot repeat your views.

MR CHU HOI-DICK (in Cantonese): President, I will not repeat my views. I want to say that I am now proposing to conduct a study on levying a progressive "carbon tax", and it does not matter if Members do not agree to the levying since 4516 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 the Government can very well say that there are no justifications for doing so after the study. Therefore, Members need not feel too concerned about this part of the amendment. I urge Members to focus on the setting of appropriate targets and support my further amendment.

The further amendment moved by Mr CHU Hoi-dick to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (See the marked-up version at Annex 8)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr CHU Hoi-dick to Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr CHU Hoi-dick rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr CHU Hoi-dick has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4517

Functional Constituencies:

Mr James TO, Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen and Mr KWONG Chun-yu voted for the amendment.

Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr SHIU Ka-fai and Mr Tony TSE voted against the amendment.

Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr CHAN Chun-ying and Mr LUK Chung-hung abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Ms Claudia MO, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Dr Helena WONG, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Gary FAN and Mr AU Nok-hin voted for the amendment.

Mrs Regina IP voted against the amendment.

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Dr CHENG Chung-tai, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan abstained.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 6 were in favour of the amendment, 7 against it and 11 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical 4518 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 12 were in favour of the amendment, 1 against it and 11 abstained. Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was negatived.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Dr Elizabeth QUAT, as the amendments of Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK have been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

DR ELIZABETH QUAT (in Cantonese): President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be further amended by my revised amendment.

The further amendment moved by Dr Elizabeth QUAT to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (See the marked-up version at Annex 9)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Dr Elizabeth QUAT to Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(Members raised their hands)

Mr HUI Chi-fung rose to claim a division.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4519

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr HUI Chi-fung has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung and Mr Tony TSE voted for the amendment.

Mr James TO, Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen and Mr KWONG Chun-yu voted against the amendment.

Mr Frankie YICK, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan and Mr SHIU Ka-fai abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the amendment.

4520 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Ms Claudia MO, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Dr Helena WONG, Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Dr CHENG Chung-tai, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Gary FAN and Mr AU Nok-hin voted against the amendment.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 15 were in favour of the amendment, 6 against it and 3 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 10 were in favour of the amendment and 14 against it. Since the question was not agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was negatived.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Kenneth LEUNG, as the amendments of Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK have been passed, you may move your revised amendment.

MR KENNETH LEUNG (in Cantonese): President, I move that Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be further amended by my revised amendment.

The further amendment moved by Mr Kenneth LEUNG to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (See the marked-up version at Annex 10)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now propose the question to you and that is: That the amendment moved by Mr Kenneth LEUNG to Mr Martin LIAO's motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK be passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you as stated. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4521

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

Mr Kenneth LEUNG rose to claim a division.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Kenneth LEUNG has claimed a division. The division bell will ring for one minute.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please proceed to vote.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will Members please check their votes. If there are no queries, voting shall now stop and the result will be displayed.

Functional Constituencies:

Mr James TO, Mr Jeffrey LAM, Mr WONG Ting-kwong, Ms Starry LEE, Mr CHAN Kin-por, Mr Frankie YICK, Mr YIU Si-wing, Mr MA Fung-kwok, Mr Charles Peter MOK, Mr Kenneth LEUNG, Mr Christopher CHEUNG, Mr IP Kin-yuen, Mr Martin LIAO, Mr POON Siu-ping, Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr CHUNG Kwok-pan, Mr HO Kai-ming, Mr Holden CHOW, Mr SHIU Ka-fai, Mr CHAN Chun-ying, Mr LUK Chung-hung, Mr KWONG Chun-yu and Mr Tony TSE voted for the amendment.

Mr LEUNG Yiu-chung abstained.

THE PRESIDENT, Mr Andrew LEUNG, did not cast any vote.

Geographical Constituencies:

Mr CHAN Hak-kan, Mr WONG Kwok-kin, Mrs Regina IP, Mr WU Chi-wai, Mr CHAN Han-pan, Mr LEUNG Che-cheung, Ms Alice MAK, Dr KWOK Ka-ki, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Dr Helena WONG, Dr Elizabeth QUAT, 4522 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Mr Alvin YEUNG, Mr Andrew WAN, Mr HUI Chi-fung, Dr CHENG Chung-tai, Mr Jeremy TAM, Mr Vincent CHENG and Ms CHAN Hoi-yan voted for the amendment.

Ms Claudia MO, Mr CHAN Chi-chuen, Dr Fernando CHEUNG, Mr CHU Hoi-dick, Mr Gary FAN and Mr AU Nok-hin abstained.

THE PRESIDENT announced that among the Members returned by functional constituencies, 25 were present, 23 were in favour of the amendment and 1 abstained; while among the Members returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, 24 were present, 18 were in favour of the amendment and 6 abstained. Since the question was agreed by a majority of each of the two groups of Members present, he therefore declared that the amendment was passed.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr Martin LIAO has used up his speaking time.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I now put the question to you and that is: That the motion moved by Mr Martin LIAO, as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung, Mr Charles Peter MOK and Mr Kenneth LEUNG, be passed. Will those in favour please raise their hands?

(Members raised their hands)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Those against please raise their hands.

(No hands raised)

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): I think the question is agreed by a majority respectively of each of the two groups of Members, that is, those returned by functional constituencies and those returned by geographical constituencies through direct elections, who are present. I declare the motion as amended passed.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4523

NEXT MEETING

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): This is the last Council meeting in 2018, I hope Members will enjoy a happy holiday.

I now adjourn the Council until 11:00 am on Wednesday, 9 January 2019.

Adjourned accordingly at 4:56 pm.

4524 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Annex 1

The marked-up version of the amendment moved by Ms Alice MAK (Translation)

That given the rising trend in, despite the Government's provision of support services for sexual violence victims and abused children over the years, the number of cases of sexual violence and child abuse in Hong Kong in recent years has seen a rising trend; in this connection, this Council urges the Government to allocate additional resources to the Hospital Authority for, in accordance with the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by the World Health Organization, setting up a crisis support centre in public hospitals respectively in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon to provide sexual violence victims and abused children ('victims') with 24-hour one-stop comprehensive services; details of recommendations are as follows:

(1) designating a suitable place with high privacy protection for setting up a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre in three public hospitals, thereby allowing victims to receive treatment and follow-up services and undergo necessary procedures, including medical treatment, forensic examinations, reporting to the Police, statement taking (with the provision of facilities for the Police to take statements from victims by way of video-recorded interview), receiving support and counselling from social workers, in the same place;

(2) providing professional and adequate manpower at one-stop crisis support centres to enable victims to expeditiously access comprehensive assistance and support, including emotional and psychological counselling and legal advice;

(2)(3) properly maintaining overall statistics on victims receiving diagnosis and treatment or undergoing examinations, giving statements to the Police and undergoing forensic examinations in public hospitals;

(3)(4) instructing the Social Welfare Department to review the existing procedural guide for regulating the handling of child abuse cases while clarifying its coordination role to foster cooperation with the Police, health care personnel and other departments, in order to provide abused children with timely assistance and follow-up;

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4525

(4)(5) providing frontline personnel (including police officers and social workers) with professional and specialized training to enhance their sensitivity and skills in handling cases of sexual violence and child abuse involving different genders, backgrounds, cultures and sexual orientations; and

(6) establishing in the Police a special investigation team dedicated to handling cases of sexual violence and child abuse to complement the relevant investigation work of one-stop crisis support centres, thereby abating the enormous pressure faced by victims in having to repeatedly recount the incidents due to a change of investigation teams by the Police; and

(5)(7) formulating uniform standards of interpretation and translation services for languages of various ethnic minorities, improving the procedure and guidelines for provision of interpretation services in public hospitals, reviewing the application formalities for interpretation services, and deploying resident medical interpreters in public hospitals and providing training for interpreters them to ensure that they, while protecting the privacy of victims, render interpretation and translation services to ethnic minorities victims in a professional and impartial manner.

Note: Ms Alice MAK's amendment is marked in bold and italic type or with deletion line.

4526 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Annex 2

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Dr Fernando CHEUNG to the motion as amended by Ms Alice MAK (Translation)

That, despite the Government's provision of support services for sexual violence victims and abused children over the years, the number of cases of sexual violence and child abuse in Hong Kong in recent years has seen a rising trend; in this connection, this Council urges the Government to allocate additional resources to the Hospital Authority for, in accordance with the Guidelines for medico-legal care for victims of sexual violence issued by the World Health Organization, setting up a crisis support centre in public hospitals respectively in the New Territories, on Hong Kong Island and in Kowloon to provide sexual violence victims and abused children ('victims') with 24-hour one-stop comprehensive services; details of recommendations are as follows:

(1) designating a suitable place with high privacy protection for setting up a 24-hour one-stop crisis support centre in three public hospitals, thereby allowing victims to receive treatment and follow-up services and undergo necessary procedures, including medical treatment, forensic examinations, reporting to the Police, statement taking (with the provision of facilities for the Police to take statements from victims by way of video-recorded interview), receiving support and counselling from social workers, in the same place;

(2) providing professional and adequate manpower at one-stop crisis support centres to enable victims to expeditiously access comprehensive assistance and support, including emotional and psychological counselling and legal advice;

(3) properly maintaining overall statistics on victims receiving diagnosis and treatment or undergoing examinations, giving statements to the Police and undergoing forensic examinations in public hospitals;

(4) instructing the Social Welfare Department to review the existing procedural guide for regulating the handling of child abuse cases while clarifying its coordination role to foster cooperation with the Police, health care personnel and other departments, in order to provide abused children with timely assistance and follow-up;

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4527

(5) providing frontline personnel (including police officers and social workers) with professional and specialized training to enhance their sensitivity and skills in handling cases of sexual violence and child abuse involving different genders, backgrounds, cultures and sexual orientations;

(6) establishing in the Police a special investigation team dedicated to handling cases of sexual violence and child abuse to complement the relevant investigation work of one-stop crisis support centres, thereby abating the enormous pressure faced by victims in having to repeatedly recount the incidents due to a change of investigation teams by the Police; and

(7) formulating uniform standards of interpretation and translation services for languages of various ethnic minorities, improving the procedure and guidelines for provision of interpretation services in public hospitals, reviewing the application formalities for interpretation services, and deploying resident medical interpreters in public hospitals and providing training for them to ensure that they, while protecting the privacy of victims, render interpretation and translation services to ethnic minorities victims in a professional and impartial manner;

(8) expeditiously convening multi-disciplinary case conferences for child abuse cases to formulate long-term plans in the best interests of abused children, while significantly increasing the number of residential placements for children to shorten the time of abused children overstaying in hospitals; and

(9) putting in place feedback and complaint mechanisms for interpretation and translation services.

Note: Dr Fernando CHEUNG's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

4528 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Annex 3

The marked-up version of the amendment moved by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change and, the imminent crisis, is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4529

(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster.

Note: Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok's amendment is marked in bold and italic type or with deletion line.

4530 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Annex 4

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Mr HUI Chi-fung to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change, the crisis is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4531

(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster;

(6) designating bicycles as a mode of transport and formulating a bicycle-friendly policy;

(7) setting a target year for the prohibition of sale of fuel-engined private cars;

(8) formulating a legislative timetable to ban the use of disposable plastic tableware and straws, and to ban the sale of products containing microplastics; and

(9) formulating a timetable for implementing the producer responsibility scheme on glass beverage and plastic product containers, and other packaging materials (such as plastic packaging), and mandating the relevant stakeholders to share the responsibility for the collection and treatment of end-of-life products.

Note: Mr HUI Chi-fung's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

4532 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Annex 5

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Mr KWOK Wai-keung to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change, the crisis is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4533

(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster;

(6) establishing a $2 billion 'green industries development fund' to support the development of green industries;

(7) nurturing a sufficient pool of talents to meet the manpower demand of various green industries;

(8) providing dedicated tax and land concessions, etc. to attract more green industries to develop business in Hong Kong; and

(9) enacting legislation on contingency measures for handling disasters caused by climate change and arrangements for suspension of work in times of and after disasters, so as to safeguard the safety of employees.

Note: Mr KWOK Wai-keung's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

4534 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Annex 6

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Mr Charles Peter MOK to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok and Mr KWOK Wai-keung (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change, the crisis is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4535

(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster;

(6) establishing a $2 billion 'green industries development fund' to support the development of green industries;

(7) nurturing a sufficient pool of talents to meet the manpower demand of various green industries;

(8) providing dedicated tax and land concessions, etc. to attract more green industries to develop business in Hong Kong; and

(9) enacting legislation on contingency measures for handling disasters caused by climate change and arrangements for suspension of work in times of and after disasters, so as to safeguard the safety of employees;

(10) using data analysis to identify information that can facilitate the formulation of environmental protection policies and review their effectiveness; and

(11) promoting the research and application of new green technologies to enhance energy efficiency, lower carbon emissions and reduce waste.

Note: Mr Charles Peter MOK's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

4536 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

Annex 7

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Mr Gary FAN to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change, the crisis is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

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(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster;

(6) establishing a $2 billion 'green industries development fund' to support the development of green industries;

(7) nurturing a sufficient pool of talents to meet the manpower demand of various green industries;

(8) providing dedicated tax and land concessions, etc. to attract more green industries to develop business in Hong Kong; and

(9) enacting legislation on contingency measures for handling disasters caused by climate change and arrangements for suspension of work in times of and after disasters, so as to safeguard the safety of employees;

(10) using data analysis to identify information that can facilitate the formulation of environmental protection policies and review their effectiveness; and

(11) promoting the research and application of new green technologies to enhance energy efficiency, lower carbon emissions and reduce waste;

(12) stopping the construction of artificial islands through reclamation to prevent sand dredging from damaging the natural environment and further increasing carbon emissions, and prevent members of the public from exposing to the risks of rising sea level, storm surges and other extreme weather conditions;

(13) formulating policies to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, including setting a target to reduce carbon by at least 80% by 2050, encouraging governmental organizations and other enterprises to use more renewable energy in place of fossil energy, and stepping up measures to promote energy conservation and enhance power usage effectiveness; and

4538 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

(14) in accordance with the recommendations of the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, holding the increase in global average temperature to 1.5 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels, so as to achieve environmental justice.

Note: Mr Gary FAN's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4539

Annex 8

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Mr CHU Hoi-dick to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change, the crisis is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

4540 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster;

(6) establishing a $2 billion 'green industries development fund' to support the development of green industries;

(7) nurturing a sufficient pool of talents to meet the manpower demand of various green industries;

(8) providing dedicated tax and land concessions, etc. to attract more green industries to develop business in Hong Kong; and

(9) enacting legislation on contingency measures for handling disasters caused by climate change and arrangements for suspension of work in times of and after disasters, so as to safeguard the safety of employees;

(10) using data analysis to identify information that can facilitate the formulation of environmental protection policies and review their effectiveness; and

(11) promoting the research and application of new green technologies to enhance energy efficiency, lower carbon emissions and reduce waste;

(12) revising, in the light of the recommendations set out in the Report, the emission reduction target from reducing carbon intensity by 65% to 70% by 2030 to reducing absolute carbon emissions by 50% by 2030;

(13) setting specific and proactive targets to raise the percentage of total generating capacity to be met by renewable energy sources;

(14) conducting a study on levying a progressive 'carbon tax', the revenue from which will be used for assisting grass-roots people in coping with climate change;

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(15) proactively reducing the carbon emissions of the transport sector, including curbing the rapid growth in the number of private cars and designating areas in each district for pedestrians and bicycles only; and

(16) devising dedicated corresponding strategies and allocating additional resources to assist the poor and the disadvantaged, who are more vulnerable than other strata, in coping with climate change.

Note: Mr CHU Hoi-dick's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

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Annex 9

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Dr Elizabeth QUAT to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change, the crisis is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

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(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster;

(6) establishing a $2 billion 'green industries development fund' to support the development of green industries;

(7) nurturing a sufficient pool of talents to meet the manpower demand of various green industries;

(8) providing dedicated tax and land concessions, etc. to attract more green industries to develop business in Hong Kong; and

(9) enacting legislation on contingency measures for handling disasters caused by climate change and arrangements for suspension of work in times of and after disasters, so as to safeguard the safety of employees;

(10) using data analysis to identify information that can facilitate the formulation of environmental protection policies and review their effectiveness; and

(11) promoting the research and application of new green technologies to enhance energy efficiency, lower carbon emissions and reduce waste;

(12) formulating concrete plans to definitely implement the strategies, action plans and timetable for transforming Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart city;

(13) perfecting waste disposal policies, and proactively conducting a study on more effective use of recovered resources to effect waste-to-energy and waste-to-treasure proposals, including integrating innovation and technology to develop green industries or 'light recycling industry', so as to promote the development of the whole green industrial chain, and the application, research and development of relevant technologies;

(14) raising the city's greening ratio, which includes promoting territory-wide greening work and vertical greening;

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(15) promoting water conservation and developing a 'sponge city', increasing urban water bodies to cool down the city and exploring new water resources such as desalinated and reclaimed water;

(16) formulating a plastic-free timetable and banning the use of microplastics, disposable plastic tableware and related products, thereby striving to reduce the consumption of disposable plastic products at source;

(17) promoting green modes of traffic and transport and application of related techniques, for example, constructing light rail transit systems to connect the Kai Tak New Development Area and its nearby places and the new development areas of Fanling North, Kwu Tung North and Ping Che respectively, and a wider use of green transport, including subsidizing the replacement of environmentally-friendly vessels, and comprehensively promoting the use of electric vehicles and installing more quick chargers;

(18) further developing Hong Kong into a 'bicycle city', promoting a bicycle-friendly policy, including improving and increasing bicycle parking spaces, encouraging the public to commute by bicycles and expanding and perfecting the existing cycle track networks, which include extending Hong Kong's cycle track to connect with the Green Way of Guangdong Province; and

(19) cooperating with the green finance pilot zone of Guangzhou, Guangdong Province in developing green finance in the Greater Bay Area.

Note: Dr Elizabeth QUAT's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018 4545

Annex 10

The marked-up version of the further amendment moved by Mr Kenneth LEUNG to the motion as amended by Ir Dr LO Wai-kwok, Mr KWOK Wai-keung and Mr Charles Peter MOK (Translation)

That, given the worsening problem of global climate change, the crisis is imminent; according to the Paris Agreement, various countries are required to propose targets for voluntary reduction in emissions of greenhouse gases and to review and update such targets once every five years, hence Hong Kong should also dovetail with the country in honouring its undertakings as a State party; in this connection, this Council urges the SAR Government to cope with climate change more proactively, lead various social sectors and all people to fully transform Hong Kong into a green and low-carbon smart society and economy, and review at an appropriate time and enhance as appropriate Hong Kong's capabilities to withstand extreme weather and adapt to climate change, with a view to making every endeavour to help alleviate this crisis faced by all mankind, providing Hong Kong people with due protection of their lives and properties, and promoting the sustainable development of the society and economy; specific policy measures include:

(1) advocating energy efficiency and promoting intellectualization of infrastructure and green architecture, so as to develop a green and low-carbon smart community;

(2) perfecting supporting measures to implement the policy on 'Reduce, Recycle and Proper Waste Management', and promoting the development of a circular economy;

(3) providing additional dedicated resources for research and development, promoting the setting up of a 'centre for industrialization and development of environmental protection technologies', and promoting the development and use of environmental protection technologies;

(4) promoting the use of clean energy and renewable energy to flexibly cope with future climate and environment change; and

4546 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 13 December 2018

(5) promoting regional cooperation to jointly establish a green, low-carbon and high technology smart city cluster;

(6) establishing a $2 billion 'green industries development fund' to support the development of green industries;

(7) nurturing a sufficient pool of talents to meet the manpower demand of various green industries;

(8) providing dedicated tax and land concessions, etc. to attract more green industries to develop business in Hong Kong; and

(9) enacting legislation on contingency measures for handling disasters caused by climate change and arrangements for suspension of work in times of and after disasters, so as to safeguard the safety of employees;

(10) using data analysis to identify information that can facilitate the formulation of environmental protection policies and review their effectiveness; and

(11) promoting the research and application of new green technologies to enhance energy efficiency, lower carbon emissions and reduce waste; and

(12) developing proactively green finance to promote industry involvement in green projects relating to low-carbon or sustainable developments.

Note: Mr Kenneth LEUNG's amendment is marked in bold and italic type.