A Conversation Between Chinese Artists and Mexican Painter David Alfaro Siqueiros Feng Xiangsheng

DOCUMENT

A cOnVersAtiOn betWeen chinese Artists AnD MeXicAn PAinter DAViD ALfArO siQUeirOs feng Xiangsheng

(Renowned Mexican artist David Alfaro Siqueiros was invited to come to China for an offi cial visit in October of this year. Last year, on a visit to the Soviet Union, he delivered “An Open Letter to Soviet Artists” that was later published in the US progressive publication The Masses and the Mainstream. On October 23, Siqueiros delivered a speech entitled “The Mexican Modern Painting Movement” to an audience of Chinese artists in Beijing. On the 24th and 30th, Chinese artists and Siqueiros engaged in two discussions concerning issues such as Siqueiros’s speech, his “Open Letter to Soviet Artists,” and his views on Chinese art. The participants of these conversations included: Ye Qianyu, Wu Zuoren, Cao Ruohong, Shao Yu, Ni Yide, Dong Xiwen, Wang Xun, Wang Qi, Zhang Wuzhen, Li Zongjin, Li Hua, Ye Fu, and others. Below is a brief summary of these two discussions for our read- ers’ reference. The speakers have not reviewed this article, and any misrepresentations of the discussion are solely the responsibility of the reporter.)

OctOber 24, AfternOOn At the chinese Artists’ AssOciAtiOn Siqueiros began by expressing his hopes that the Chinese artists would honestly and frankly share their thoughts on his speech and open letter. He expressed willingness to continue to discuss Mexican painting, the

Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/artm_a_00257 by guest on 30 September 2021 Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/artm_a_00257 by guest on30 September 2021 hearts. Theythink thatclassicalstylesarefixed styles.[Asaresult]their wholesale repetition. Theyusearttoexpress thedecisionsintheir painting isstilldeveloping.It can createaricherandmorecompleteart.’ Mexican artistsbeganopposingthiskindofthought.We said:‘Realist bunch oflines,itdoesn’t needtobeaboutanything.Startingin1922, long asthecolorsarewellbalanced,thatisenough.Apainting isjusta the essenceofpaintingiscolor. Itdoesn’t needto‘describe’ anything,as the living,’asifsleepwerenotalsopartoflife.Theabstract schoolsaid: Artists inthattimethought‘thesleepingworldismoreimportant than problems inobjectsandinsteadlookedforsubjective tosolve. So theychangeddirection.Theynolongerconcernedthemselves with the perfectionofrealism.Nothingfurthercanbedonetoimprove onit.’ ity theyfallfarshort.Theabstractschoolsays,‘We havealreadyreached artists trytoimitatethegreatworksofpast,whenitcomes tocreativ- years beforeperspectivewasdiscoveredinEurope. ing withdepthandshadows.Thesepaintingsweremadefivehundred Chinese paintings.Even atthattimepainterswerealreadyexperiment- a mistake.IwenttothePalace Museum andlookedatmanyclassical dimensional. ThiskindofthinkingexistsinEurope,butIthinkitis popular beliefthatChinesepaintingistwo-dimensional,notthree- Speaking ofChinesepainting,Siqueiros said,“Rightnowthereisa the speechfromdaybefore. Paris school,Abstraction, theSovietstyle,etc.,inordertosupplement has only just begun.” not passed. Rather, it is more fully developed. I think the era of realism Renaissance. This is an even better period. I think the era of realism has spective and chiaroscuro. Later, Raphael emerged, and then came the depthless representation). per [They also came to] acquire [the skills of] example,senting in the space Middle (for Ages, Christian art was a flat, times kept moving forward, artists came to discover the problem of repre But, simply, each era has its own contributions and characteristics. As the realize the potential of realism and they didn’t develop it to its utmost. rather keeps progressing forward. In the past, many artists did not fully avant-garde]. I believe that realism ( “There’s anothergroup[ofartists] whothinkthat‘realism’ isjust “In erasofdecline,artdoesnotdevelop.Nomatterhowskillfully Siqueiros: “Mexican artists oppose the Paris school [the European xianshi zhuyi . ) isn’t a stagnant style but

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94 artmargins 9:1 be expressed with words. This has to completely rely on an artist’s talent.” materials andpoliticalconcerns.Thisistheobjectivemethod. . from after they’ve passedaway. Furthermore, youhavetostudy[their] their likeness.You havetoexaminephotographsandsculpturesofthem is directrealism. ine hiseverydaygesturesandmovementsfrommanyperspectives.This ject’s expressionsandcolor, understand[his]innerfeelings,andexam- painting, he[Siqueiros] emphasizedthefollowingpoints: [Next,] speakingofspecificissuesregardingtheproductionrealist encompasses all thecharacteristicsofplastic arts.Thiskindofart Siqueiros’s intentionis tocreateasynthetic,comprehensive artthat [First] muralistWang Qi delivered histalkonSiqueiros: “Comrade Oct in the20thcentury, theirstylewouldhaveprogressedfurther. Repin. Ofcoursethesetwoartistswereverygood.But iftheywerealive I whole-heartedlycriticizedtheSovietstyleofpainting. works boreaudiencesandbecomemeaningless.Thisisthereasonwhy in alandscapepainting?” That wasapossiblereality. Sowhycan’t Iimagineurbanbuildings ple. Twenty yearsago, Ipaintedanimaginaryatombombexplosion. This is[whatImeanby]therealistimagination.Here’s anotherexam- now werecognizethatthiswasthefirstartisttodreamup anairplane. Da Vinci paintedaflyingmachine,peoplesaidthat hewasmad,but our fantasiesareaboutthingsthatcouldhappen.For example,when a realistfoundationisinauthentic[buzhenshi],it’s puremadness.But same asimaginationinabstractpainting.Afantasypainting without very consistentwiththeseprinciples. Good landscapepaintingssurpasswhatwecansee.Chinesepaintingis [You haveto]lookfromeverypossibleangle(i.e.,diffusive perspective). Landscape paintings’ subjectisn’t what youcanseerightinfrontofyou. landscape). . Chinahasmanylarge-scaleworksofthiskind. ober 30, Aftern oon a “It is difficult to find new forms ( “Third, there’s realismofthespirit “Second, whenpaintingdeceasedfigures,youcan’t directlypaint “First, whenpaintinghumanfigures,oneshouldobservethesub- “Soviet paintersthinkthatrealismis[Gustave] Courbetand[Ilya] “Fourth, realistimagination.Imagination inrealismisnotthe t theChineseArtists’ Associa . xingshi [ jingsheng] (butnotimitative ) [of representation]. This can’t tion Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/artm_a_00257 by guest on30 September 2021 Next, thepainter DongXiwensharedhisopinions: the specificcharacteristicsof thatpainting.” tant, whatgetstothequintessential meaning,whatisappropriatefor indiscriminately intothepainting. [You] have tochoosewhatisimpor world purelythroughconcretemeans—youcan’t justputeverything for progressiveartists).Itisnotpossibletogetknowthe objective knowledge deepens,his[artistic]requirementsalsodeepen (especially ative actisfundamentallyawaytocomprehendtheworld. As [his] school’s essence stemsfromthestyle’s purpose.Besides,apainter’s cre- then wewillhavedestroyedeachoftheiressences,since painting tics fromdifferent schoolsofartandcombinethemintoonepainting, we seekinrealism).But ifwemechanicallytakethestylisticcharacteris- harmonious andunified(evenifthatunityisdifferent fromtheunity Cubism orFuturism wereappliedto theirownworks,theresultswere preserve itsintegrityandharmony. Whenthespecialcharacteristicsof literature andtheater. . Theminimumrequirementforartisthatit understood. Itcannotrelyonrationalexplanation.isdifferent from ner, communicatedirectlytotheaudiencethroughsightandmakeitself the massesunderstandcontent. this. Onlyafter muchexplanationfromtheartistorathirdpartywould issue: Itwouldnotbesoeasyforthemassestounderstandaworklike artist’s efforts tomakeabreakthroughinstyle.However, there’s another perspectives theorythathe[Siqueiros] created.From thiswecanseethe Cubism’s combinationofshapes,andsoon—aswell asthemultiple- with manysmallvignettes.Therearealsostyles—Fauvism’s color, example, inhispaintingFascist Processthecontentisrichandcomplex, many plasticarts,IcanseeComradeSiqueiros’s efforts inthisarea.For artistic questionIfundamentallyagree. toward thefuture[xiangqianfazhan].Onthesekeypointsregarding academicism andformalism,promoterealism,marchunceasingly the past.[He thinks]wemust pursuerevolutionaryinnovations,oppose [he is]notsatisfiedwiththeoldmodesofexpression[biaoxianfangfa] and canencourageinvigoratethepeople[guwurenmin].Therefore before-seen forms of art [yishu xingshi] that have great social significance should includemonumentalsocialthemes.Itcreatenever- “. . Iagreewithwhat ComradeSiqueiros said: ‘We shoulddiscuss “Painting isuniqueinthatitcan,averysimpleanddirectman- “. . With respecttosynthesizingthespecialcharacteristicsof . - 95 feng | Conversation between Chinese A rtists and S i q u e i r o s Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/artm_a_00257 by guest on30 September 2021

96 artmargins 9:1 talks, Iamleft withanevendeeperimpression fromtheMexican painting schoolsand supplementedtheirweaknesses. After listeningtothese by theMexican paintingshassynthesizedthestrengths ofthesepaint- agree—I experiencedwhathe described.Therealismthatisexemplified Siqueiros wentovertheessenceofeachschoolmodernism, andI understand it.OnthispointI agreewithComradeWangqi. Comrade Maybe it’s justme;maybeothersalsofeltthisway, butIcouldn’t ity [biaomiandezhenshi].But lookingattheworks,Istillfeltunsatisfied. them thatwhattheyaretryingtoportrayisnotsimplythe surface real- tell thattheyarepursuingsomethingnew. You cantellbylookingat and content,justfromlookingatthestyle[biaoxianxingshi ], onecan “[On hisvisittotheMexican artexhibition]withoutdiscussingthemes develop itsnationaltraditions[minzuchuantong].” they havedifferent facesandlooks.ThereforeweinChinamustalso Each raceornation[minzu]hasherowndistinctstyle ing, wecansharethesamethemes,butstylecannotbesame. anotherformof‘globalism’[just] [shijiezhuyi].Whenitcomestopaint- paints thisway, thenIagreewithwhatComradeSiqueiros said:Thisis Soviet paintingitselfisgoodorbad,butifeveryothercountryalso ture, theroadtheywalkisnotwide.I’mcommentingonwhether many profoundandwonderfulthings.’But ifyoulookatthebigpic- enough. ASovietpaintermightsay: ‘ifyoulookclosely, youwillfind the problemwithSovietpainting.Thepaththeyarewalkingisnotwide of ourownfeelings,orusepastartists’ stylestolimitourown.Thisis are likethis.Certainly wecan’t usepastartists’ [guren]feelingsinplace copy themtoooften, peoplewilltireofthem.Repinand[Vasily] Surikov any greatmaster, althoughtheiroriginalworkswereflawless,stillifwe again andagain,peoplewillgrowtiredofit.Ibelievethatifwethink been restricted.Whenitcomestoart,ifwerepeattheartofpast are often restricted.Theemotionandstyleintheartworkshavealso quently takeonthestylesofgreatmasterpiecespast. they their traditions.But ontheotherhand,becausetheirpaintingsfre- old masters.Thishasitsstrengths—itcancarryforwardandpromote [biaoxian xingshi],theyinvariablyfollowthemethods make usformalists.’ the questionofform[xingshi].Discussingdoesnot “When Sovietpaintersconsidertheformoftheirrepresentation . [ [ fangfa fengge ] ] oftheir , justas Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/artm_a_00257 by guest on30 September 2021 understanding isthis:academicpaintinglacks purpose;thefiguresthat artists haveatendency towardRomanacademicism, thatisn’t right. My cal portrayalofhumanfigures. But tosaythatbecause ofthis,Soviet language. The‘OpenLetter’ madeit veryclear: purposeful,technologi- ing isinsufficient inthisrespect: ithasletgoofthepowerwithinvisual lacks isexactlythattowardwhich Mexican paintingstrives.Soviet paint- his ‘OpenLettertoSovietArtists.’ Inmyview, what Sovietpainting needed. ThisgetsustothequestionthatComradeSiqueiros raisedin intuitively understandtheirmeaning.Therefore,furtherarticulation is enrich thepictorialstructurethroughwhichpeoplecandirectly and on theiraudience.But theirworkslackthelifelikeimagerythatcan pictorial structures[huamianjiegou]inordertocreateapowerfulimpact something. from thepaintings’ surfacesdirectly.’ Thisdebatemademerealize ond rebutted:‘You aregettingallofthisfromtheoreticalconcepts,not else behindit?’Thefirststudentgavefurtherexplanation,butthesec- shot back:‘But after youfeltthatpowerfulimpact,wasthereanything can’t getfromlookingatSovietpaintings.’Thesecond youngperson a powerfulimpactonmyemotions.Thisissomethingthatyou first youngpersonsaid:‘Visiting the Mexican paintingexhibitionhad Fine Artsdebatingthequestionofintegratingformandcontent.The art world.IoverheardtwoyoungstudentsattheCentral Academy of “The Mexican paintingexhibitionhasmadebigwavesintheChinese Next, theartistLiZongjin sharedhisviews: right way.” to anobject’s nature[zhenshi]anddepictingitobjectively—thatisthe Different artistsseethingsdifferently. Ithinkthatpayingattention more importantistheattitudeofthesepainterstowardnature[ziran]. These worksweretosomeextentinfluencedbytheirpredecessors. But Artists shouldhavetheirownstyle,individualityandfeeling. of piecingtogetheristoorestrictiveonanartist’s style[biaoxianfengge]. The spiritofsynthesizing[different artisticstyles]isright.But thiskind complicated, chaoticandmessy, andnotsufficiently natural[zhenshi]. and unifying(tongyi)?Ifeltlikethestyleoftheseworkswasoverly Wangqi’s opinion—isn’t there aproblemherewithreconciling(tiaohe) works (oilpaintings)wereratherpiecedtogether. IagreewithComrade ing exhibition.At thesametime,Ifeelmorestronglythatsomeof “Here’s therealquestion: Mexican artistsworkhard toexplorenew . 97 feng | Conversation between Chinese A rtists and S i q u e i r o s Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/artm_a_00257 by guest on30 September 2021

98 artmargins 9:1 which tobuild a socialistsociety. tage [wuzhijichu , literally“material foundation”] asthe foundationon complete. Thehighestformof realismistouseone’s ownculturalheri- bright andpromising[guangming ]. Inthisway, thequestionismore be evenmorereal[xianshi]thantherealismofYungang, evenmore the sameas[temples]inpast orinthepresent.Your realismhasto sion asYungang. Ifin thefutureyouhadanewtemple,itwouldn’t be today wedon’t havethesamekindsofmaterialsandlanguageexpres- them. Give thiskindofcommunitarianspirittotheartists. Ofcourse, the conceptstoadvance;givethemameasureofstrength,encourage isn’t aquestionoffreeornotfree:theimportantthingistogive[artists] an artistdoesn’t wanttomakeart,thendon’t forcehimtomakeart.This the problemofartisticfreedom,Idon’t thinkthatistherealproblem.If could notbere-createdtoday. country. Don’t tellmethatworkswerecreatedbyaslavesociety move inthedirectionofworkslikeYungang inordertorepresentyour promote Chinesepainting,Iwanttosayonelastthing:You should for modernpresent-dayrepresentation.To thoseofyouwhowantto ple [literally, ‘collective’]. ing ofpaintinghastochange.From hereonout,painting isforthepeo- Of course,whenpaintingsaremadeforallthepeople,ourunderstand- antiquity, aswellofthe[European]MiddleAgesandRenaissance. of nationalart,returnedtothetimeChinese,Greek, andEgyptian [Siqueiros’s Response] ulate development.” only oneroad,anddebateisratherlacking,therenotenoughtostim- would say[theproblemis]thattheirroadistoonarrow. Becausethereis now facesisn’t theonethatSiqueiros’s ‘OpenLetter’ raised.Rather, I Vasily Perov andPavel Fedotov. IthinktheproblemthatSovietpainting ing methods[shoufa],Sovietpaintersareworkinginthetraditionof we can’t putthisonSovietpainting.Ithinkthatwhenitcomestopaint- tendencies—that theydenynationalisttraditions—thisIagreewith.But would beinappropriate.To saythatformalismandacademismshare But ifweagreeonthisand thenapplythattoSovietpainting, it portrayslackofpersonalityandcomeoff asaffected andpretentious. “In today’s socialistcountries,eventhoughwefrequentlytalkabout “The bourgeoismodesofexpressioncanserveasthefoundation “. . Today, Mexican paintinghasalreadyreturnedtotheparadigm . Downloaded from http://www.mitpressjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.1162/artm_a_00257 by guest on30 September 2021 the powerofrepresentinganewsociety.” for foodandclothingatthesametimegivethemart.Art becomes greater thanthelast.Socialistcountriescandirectlymeetpeople’s need out experiences,thenofcoursethiswillcreatenewworks, each one results. Thisdoesn’t contradictnationalcharacter. ence, butthey’ve forgottenthatsimilarsocietieswillcreate Chinese. Therearesomescholarswholookingintomutualinflu- some quiltsthatlookMexican, andMexico hassomethingsthatlook this, oritwillleadustoanambiguousstyle.For example,Romaniahas unique nationalstyle[minzufengge].But oneshouldn’t overemphasize while internationalismisacontest[jingsai].Every nationhasitsown [guoji zhuyi].Globalismisopposedtonationalismfanminzu], “It’s wrongtoconfuseglobalism[shijiezhuyi]andinternationalism emotion tospeak,usetheforms[xingxiang]ofplasticartsspeak.” and ‘clear’ hasruinedSovietart.artistshaveforgottenhowtouse that ourworkisforthem.Reallythiswhatitcomesdownto:‘simple’ another. We havealotofworktodomakethemasses understand tion. It’s aquestionof[artistsandworkers]mutuallyeducatingone the onewithgoodvoicewillsingbetter. Thisisacomplicatedques- one singsapoliticalsong,buttheotherhasgoodvoice,thenofcourse subject. Artspeakstohumanemotions.Ifyouhavetwosingers,and painting. Sowhat’s goingon?Whyisn’t itgood?Artisacomplicated ers walkedpasttheycouldallunderstand.But everyonesaysitisn’t good figures andeventheirclothingwereallclearlyarticulated.Whenwork- “The societyyouliveinisasocialistsociety. Ifyouuselogictoseek “[In theSovietUnion]themeswereallplaintosee,human . Transla t ed by Jing Cao Jing by ed 99 feng | Conversation between Chinese A rtists and S i q u e i r o s