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Aleksandr Kayzerman. Full, unedited interview, 2012

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ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN

TABLE OF CONTENTS ITEM TRANSCRIPT

ENGLISH TRANSLATION 2 CITATION & RIGHTS 12

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Aleksandr Kayzerman. Full, unedited interview, 2012

ID FL008.interview PERMALINK http://n2t.net/ark:/86084/b42v2cc6c

ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN

TRANSCRIPT ENGLISH TRANSLATION —Today is November 28, 2012. We are in Miami meeting a veteran of the Great Patriotic War. Please introduce yourself and tell us when and where you were born. What was life like before the war? What was your family like? What kind of school did you attend?

My name is Aleksandr Yakovlevich Kayzerman. I was born on December 12, 1923, in the town of Kamennyi Brod [Kamianyi Brid], Zhitomir [Zhytomyr] Oblast, Ukraine. But we did not stay there long. My mother was a Russian language teacher and my father was an accountant, so in the late 1920s they were able to move the family to the Donbas. Back then it was a burgeoning industrial center. At first we lived in the mining city of Gorlovka [Horlivka], where my father was the chief accountant at a coke and chemical plant, while my mother taught at a school. From Gorlovka we moved to Dneprodzerzhynsk [now Kamianske], about 40 kilometers from Dneprovetrovsk [now Dnipro]. This was also a major industrial city with a huge metallurgical plant, machine-building factories, and chemical plants. My father was the chief accountant of what was meant to become the largest coke chemical plant in the country. It was still under construction and scheduled to start production in 1941.

I studied at School No. 6 in Dneprodzerzhynsk. When we finished seventh grade, the vast majority of graduates went off to work, while some went on to technical schools, and a few others to trade schools. Back then they were still called trade schools, not PTUs [professional technical schools]. The remaining pupils from three seventh grade classes were all placed in one eighth grade class. Three years later we graduated from high school. Our class was motivated, friendly, and considered one of the best in the entire Dnepropetrovsk Oblast. One time during the November 7 celebrations our whole class got to stand right next to the government officials’ section.

Back then we all believed in a bright future. Everyone also understood that sooner or later we would have to serve in the army and defend our country. The main adversary of the Soviet Union at the time was fascist Germany. This was in the 1930s. In high schools at that time everyone wanted to receive the four pre- military badges: Ready for defense and labor, for physical ability, first aid readiness, chemical defense, and finally the Voroshilov Rifleman badge for marksmanship. Komsomol organizations were ordered to enable all willing young people to train.

We graduated from tenth grade in 1941. By that time we all had the four defense badges. In 1939 the government issued a decree that all high school graduates had to be conscripted into the army. You could not go to college first like before, everyone had to serve first. Military service was three years back then.

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Aleksandr Kayzerman. Full, unedited interview, 2012

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After that you were free to go to college. They did not give out gold medals for perfect grades back then, but rather diplomas with gold a embellishment on the sides. Our class was so advanced that 16 out of 36 of us received diplomas with gold or silver embellishments. I received one with gold. I was the Komsomol organizer at my school. The Komsomol was very persistent about hosting its events. In accordance with the new universal draft, we were conscripted in March 1941. We were all summoned to the draft office in order to pass a medical exam. We were then encouraged to do go to a military school: “Guys, you already have a high school diploma, you must enroll in military schools. You will make excellent commanders.”

At that time there was a popular slogan: “Komsomol members, climb aboard [the aircraft]! Let’s give the Motherland 150,000 pilots!” The draft offices acted accordingly and funneled everyone into air force schools. Flying clubs were created in almost every city. Two of my friends and I all decided that we did not want to serve in the air force, but rather in the navy. We really liked the uniforms. I remember there was a committee at the draft office. At the time, I was the secretary of my school’s Komsomol committee. Since our branch was very effective, I was even elected to the city Komsomol council. When my turn came and I said that I wanted to go to the navy, the chairman said, “What?! Your friends are going to be flying the planes while you’ll be bringing in new plane tails at the airfield.” I said that the Komsomol was overseeing not only the air force, but also the navy. Then the secretary of the city's Komsomol organization backed me up: “He’s right. He is not refusing to serve, he would simply rather serve in the navy, there is nothing dishonorable about that.” We then enrolled at a naval school, but we only later found out that it was the Kirov Medical Naval Academy. My best friend dreamed of becoming a doctor and wanted us all to go there. The other friend’s father was a doctor. I was just there for the ride. I dreamed of attending the Institute of History, Literature, and Philosophy in Moscow. But whatever, I decided to go with my friends.

On June 21, 1941, we had our graduation ceremony. We were congratulated at a very fancy event, it was wonderful. We danced, sang, and kissed. In those days there was a tradition that all high school graduates would go watch the dawn over the Dnieper. So we went off to do just that, not knowing that the war had already begun. In the morning we all went our separate ways and I climbed into bed. I was awakened by a knock on the door. I heard my friends voices: “Sashka, get up! We’re at war, turn on the radio!” We did not just have a normal radio, but a special S235 receiver. We tuned in just as Molotov was announcing that the fascists had broken the nonaggression treaty. The war began. All the guys, led by me since I was their leader, ran to the recruitment office to volunteer for the front. There were already thousands people there who had been called up. The head of the office told us to go home and wait for our summons to the military schools. He then said, “Now takes these bundles of draft notices and distribute them around town. This was our first military assignment.

The government issued a directive to mobilize all upperclassmen to collect the harvest at the collective

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Aleksandr Kayzerman. Full, unedited interview, 2012

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ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN farms. As a former secretary of my school’s Komsomol branch, I sent ninth and tenth graders off to collective farms. On July 3, the three of us went off to the Leningrad Military Naval Academy. On that day Stalin spoke on the radio for the first time and declared that this would be a difficult war . . . But Victory will be ours. So we traveled, first to Dnepropetrovsk. From Dnepropetrovsk we took a train to Moscow and from Moscow we reached Leningrad [now St. Petersburg]. We already saw the crowds of refugees from Western Ukraine; it was already the second week of the war. They were miserable and their children were unwashed, hungry, and crying. There were women, elderly people . . . that was our first glimpse of the face of war. We were lucky, our train was not bombed. We reached Moscow and then went to the Leningrad Station and reached Leningrad. When we got to the academy, we were immediately dispatched to Lisy Nos, where the academy’s summer training camp was located. We began going through drills. There was nothing for us to do, so they made us march. The commander of my platoon was a Ukrainian michman who spoke broken Russian with many Ukrainian words. He taught us life lessons, and my first lesson was on the day of my arrival.

After our morning muster we would march around until lunch without a clue as to why we were doing this. The leadership of the academy simply needed to kill time while they figured out what to do with us. Were they really supposed to train us for five years when there was a war going on? They awaited a directive from the People’s Commissariat of Defense. One day we were taken to the cafeteria . . . July 1941 was very hot in Leningrad. We sat down and were served hot borscht. I sat there and waited. Then they brought out ground-meat pasta before I had even started the borscht. Then we were all ordered to rise and line up. Everyone got up, but I kept sitting because I had not finished my lunch. The michman walked up to me and ordered me to rise . . . I was assigned four extra shifts of duty. That was the beginning of my military service. On the flipside, I was the first one to finish my dinner that night. Now I always eat quickly . . . the michman taught me to.

In the middle of July a decision came down that there would be no new inductees into the academy this year. Anyone who wanted to become a medic was given the option of transferring to the Kronshtadt Naval Medical School. Everyone else could go where they pleased. They could even go home. All of Leningrad’s military schools were open to us. My friend Vova really wanted to become a doctor, so he went to Kronshtadt. My second friend, Ruva, whose father was a doctor, was too pampered . . . he had had enough of the service already. He decided to return to his parents in Dneprodzerzhynsk. I decided to walk around Leningrad and find some type of military school. I walked down Liteynyi Avenue. I had an aunt in Leningrad, so I stayed at her place on Vasilyevsky Island. So I was walking down Liteynyi Avenue . . . there was a military engineering academy at St. Michael's Castle. I didn't even know what that meant. I walked in. I was so skinny . . . “Boy, you want to enroll?” “Yes, I do.” “You shouldn’t enroll here. Keep walking down Liteynyi a few blocks and you’ll see the artillery technical school on your left. Go there.”

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Aleksandr Kayzerman. Full, unedited interview, 2012

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So I walked to the Leningrad Artillery School, where I was immediately . . . An hour later I was in uniform, and another half hour after that I was in an auditorium. Classes were already in session. Our training was accelerated to the point where we had class12 hours per day. I was elected to be my platoon’s Komsomol organizer. The advantage of this was that in the morning the chief of the political department would gather us all together in a special room and we listened to Sovinformburo reports. After that we would return to our guys and tell them the news we heard. The news was all the same, that such and such cities have been abandoned . . . It struck us that there were reports of hundreds of destroyed German tanks and planes, but at the same time . . . I later understood that this was just a trick by Soviet propagandists in order to give us some hope. On August 24 we were all assembled and told that we would be able to see our parents at the Summer Garden. There were many Leningraders at our school. We arrived in a marching column and were given two hours. My aunt came and we said goodbye. A week later, on August 29, the entire school was loaded onto a train and taken to an unknown destination. Judging by the stations we passed, we figured out that we were heading southeast.

On September 8 the blockade around Leningrad closed. We had made it to Izhevsk, Udmurtia. On January 15, the thirty best students were immediately awarded their ranks and sent to their units. That was the start of my military journey. Oh, on November 7, when there was a parade on the Red Square in Moscow, there was a parade in Izhevsk too. We did not have too much time left for marching drills because we had so much other work. So lights out was moved an hour later and we spent an hour each day before bed practicing. We put on a worthy show and the parade went well. Then I was assigned to my unit. I was an artillery technician with a specialty in ammunition and equipment.

—What caliber?

It depended on which regiment I was serving in. Later in the war I served in 122mm howitzer units. I served there after the war as well.

—You were your parents’ only child?

No, I had a sister. My parents evacuated, though my father stayed until the last moment with the factory directors as they sabotaged the newly built coke batteries. They all lived in Nizhny Tagil in the Urals.

—Dneprodzerzhynsk is an industrial city. There are huge factories, industry. Did you sense that you were Jewish before the war?

No, I did not. I was a Soviet person. I remember before the war, when I was my schools Komsomol organizer, I published a note in the city paper, "Dzerzhynets," that we were opening a lecture club. We gave lectures and even students from another school came. The announcement was published along with

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Aleksandr Kayzerman. Full, unedited interview, 2012

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ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN my name, nobody tried to hide it then. After the war I was encouraged to take a pen name, or I would be “difficult to publish.” Perhaps anti-Semitism existed on some level, but to say that there was overt discrimination would be incorrect.

Even in the army, both during the war and after, I did not sense any anti-Semitism. Although it was commonplace during the war for people to say, “Sashka, even though you’re a Jew, you’re a good guy.”

—But that’s real anti-Semitism.

They said that I was different, that in general Jews were bad, but I was a good guy. In 1948 I experienced anti-Semitism when I applied to the military academy. I was not allowed to leave the service, so I decided that I should at least obtain higher education. The competition at that point was fierce. We had to pass commission inspections at our bases, then at the military district HQ, and only after that were we sent to be assessed by the academy. I passed the first two without any issues. I was applying to the Leningrad Military Pedagogical Institute. It prepared social science teachers for military educational institutions around the country. I had a diploma that exempted me from taking written exams, I only had to take exams on the rules and regulations of the army. The medical commission weeded me out due to high blood pressure. I applied three years in a row and was deemed unwell every time. That was the start of my demobilization odyssey, which took until 1956.

—Did you live in an apartment building before the war?

Yes, there was a five-floor building called the Specialists’ House. That is where the engineers from large enterprises lived.

—In 1937 . . .

I witnessed how everyone trembled with fear, how in the morning we discovered that the neighbors above us, below us, or across us had been taken away. Anyone connected to the arrested people would be ostracized, people were afraid to meet with them or even greet them. It was terrible. At school we had to expel their children from the Komsomol because their parents were enemies of the people. I remember that very well. It was a terrifying time. The whole building went silent at night, and the only sounds were cars driving up to the building. That was a clear indication. Afterward a window would have the lights on all night. I saw that. My father was never arrested, but we did have a preprepared suitcase for him in the hallway just in case. Engineers and other members of the intelligentsia from the factories were being arrested.

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Aleksandr Kayzerman. Full, unedited interview, 2012

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ITEM TYPE VIDEO ORIGINAL LANGUAGE RUSSIAN

—Were you impacted by the events of 1933 [the Holodomor]? I realize you were still little.

In 1933 we lived in Mariupol. I remember walking to school and seeing a woman sitting against a wall . . . she was swollen up and her legs looked huge. I did not know and asked my parents why her legs were swollen. It was 1933, so I was in second or third grade. She had a child her hands, he wasn't moving. I could not tell if he was dead or asleep. But he wasn't moving. She was just sitting there, not begging for anything. I understood that I was witnessing something terrible. After the war I found out . . . Nobody spoke of this before the war. I found out about the Holodomor later.

—When were you first sent to the front?

I was assigned to a unit after being commissioned on January 15, 1942, and sent to the front.

—Which front?

This was the Southern Front. We were retreating toward Stalingrad. After taking Rostov, part of the German force moved south toward the Caucasus, while the rest continued toward Stalingrad. Our division retreated toward Stalingrad.

—What sort of retreat was this? Was it more like a disorganized escape?

It was the 124th Rifle Division. Zhukov himself praised it in his memoirs, it was a tough division. We took up defensive positions north of Stalingrad. When the Battle of Stalingrad began, the division wasn't inside the city. It was stationed on banks of the Don and captured a lodgement on the right bank. The same lodgement would later be used to launch the famous offensive that surrounded General Paulus’s army.

—So you were in an infantry division . . .

Yes, but I served in an artillery regiment. We had two artillery regiments, one for field guns and one for howitzers. I served in the latter. The howitzer regiment did not fire directly at the enemy; rather we were 2-3 kilometers back from our lines and provided supporting fire for our troops.

—How did you travel? Did you have trucks?

Yes, we had ZiS-5 trucks. We had new guns produced in 1938. When I left the army in 1956, those howitzers were still in operation.

—Were you bombed frequently?

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Of course. We had almost no air cover; it was late 1942. Bombings were the most frightening bit. I—and the rest of us—could never get used to it. When they are flying toward you, it always seems like they are coming right at you.

—What was the morale like during the first part of the war?

If I am to speak honestly . . . it was shitty. The only successes we had were on paper, where we reported that we shot down 100 planes with our nowhere-to-be-seen air force. There was a special directive to cut down on people who were spreading panic. There were special SMERSH agents in every unit and every regiment. Each SMERSH operative had his own agents who reported to him. For example: “That guy said . . . that we’re all going to die . . . that this is the end.” Then they would come for him. There were no penal units then, they appeared later. The morale was low, but we never felt that we were done for. But we did feel that things were very bad.

—Then after the encirclement of German troops at Stalingrad it changed drastically?

The Battle of Moscow was much more local in nature. Even after it ended the Germans still reached the Volga and showed us that the outcome was not determined yet. However, after Stalingrad we knew that we had the upper hand. Our division crossed the Don before the battle and took a lodgement. Zhukov himself visited us and made our division a Guards unit.

—Were there other Jews in your battery?

Of course. There were not that many of us in the country, so if there were two or three in a regiment . . . But nobody ever messed with us . . . I never felt . . . The only thing I ever heard was “Even though you’re a Jew, you’re an alright guy.” This was considered lofty praise.

—However, this is anti-Semitism.

Of course! They never said anything like that to a Kazakh or an Uzbek, only Jews. Anti-Semitism ran in people’s blood. I felt this especially strongly from Ukrainians. Both Ukrainian commanders and soldiers were more inclined to be anti-Semitic. Siberians I think had never even heard of Jews before.

—Where did your division go after the Don?

Further west with the Southern Front toward Luhansk and Donetsk. This was in September 1943. Then we reached the Dnieper. After that we were transferred to the 1st Belorussian Front.

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—Was there any difference between what you witnessed in Ukraine and what you witnessed in Belorussia [Belarus]?

I advanced through the Donbas. In 1943 we liberated Stalino [now Donetsk]. I lived there after the war, but we liberated it on September 8, 1943. Our division advanced through industrial districts. There were dilapidated factories, flooded mineshafts, and ruined towns. There was less industry in Belorussia, but the rural population suffered as well, there were villages that were reduced to ashes. In Ukraine we did not know about partisans or the underground, somehow. Later we found out about the Young Guard, but we had never heard of them then. But the whole country knew about the partisans in Belorussia. We saw them when we advanced through Belorussia. They helped us and brought us information about the location of German units. That was a true advantage in heavily forested Belorussia. The main railroad runs Moscow- Smolensk-Minsk-Brest. The Germans were so afraid of partisans that they chopped down all trees within 400 meters of the railroad.

—When you were advancing through Ukraine and Belorussia, did you know about the Jewish tragedy, or did you find out about it after the war?

I knew about it, especially in Belorussia.

—How did you learn of it?

From speaking to locals.

—What did they tell you?

They said that the Germans massacred the Jews first. There were many Jews in Belorussia, while in southern and eastern Ukraine, there were no shtetls. The villages were all Ukrainian there and the Jews lived in cities. When we liberated Donetsk, we learned that tens of thousands of people, Jews among them, were thrown down a mineshaft. In Mariupol they told me . . . The city was taken so suddenly that the factories had not even ceased to run. It was taken by a marine assault that was not expected. All the Jews were trapped and a few days later they were gathered up. There was a huge antitank trench that had been dug north of the city in order to protect it. Nobody thought there would be a marine assault. All the Jews of Mariupol were shot in that trench. This was already common knowledge back then.

—Did you know that you would be shot immediately if you surrendered?

Yes, we knew that they were killing Jews, commissars, and communists.

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—Were you demobilized after the war?

No. I wanted to demobilize. I dreamed of enrolling at the history institute in Moscow. But my unit’s commanding officer said, “You are a young and experienced officer. The army needs people like you, so I will not be signing your demobilization paperwork.” Then I decided to continue my higher education. I passed a medical exam in a district hospital and was deemed healthy. I was demobilized in 1956.

—What did you do after that?

I enrolled at the History Department of the Donetsk Pedagogical Institute and began working while I was still in school after my junior year. Then I graduated and continued on. I taught history and civics to high schoolers right until my departure here. Our district party committee secretary was a former teacher. A good Russian guy. He always wanted to promote me to principal. He finally convinced me. When I started going through the process, I went to the city party committee. They went over my paperwork and their eyes grew wide when they saw a recommendation from the district committee. I came back the next day and they said that they cannot take me. I asked why. It was 1960 and Nikita Khrushchev had just issued a directive that meant the school would now have a technical-manufacturing orientation. They said that as a result, they could not have a historian as a principal: it had to be a physicist or a mathematician. I said that half of our principals were historians, but I was told that they could not just be fired. Only later did I understand that I lucked out by not becoming a principal.

—When did you teach?

From 1960 to 1996. I graded my students’ exams at the end of the school year and left for America in August.

—Were there big changes in the curriculum?

I had my own style of teaching and tried to speak truthfully, especially about the war.

—And what is that truth?

The most terribly policy back then . . . We did not know at the time that 42,000 people had been executed. Our failures did not occur because we fought poorly, but because of mistakes made by high command that had failed to prepare the army for war. The students tried not to miss any history or civics lessons, they were interesting to them. Despite the fact that I never wore my medals, they knew that I had fought in the war and that I had left the service as a lieutenant colonel.

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—What awards did you receive during the war?

The Order of the Red Star, the Order of the Patriotic War, and the “For Battle Merit” medal.

—Were the orders tied to specific events, or were they given for the unit's successes?

For general accomplishments. When an operation was successful, we were nominated for awards. The Star is for the Donbas operation. The artillery played a key role there.

—And later in life you began writing?

Yes, I began writing back in the Soviet Union. We had oblast-level newspapers, a Russian and a Ukrainian one. I submitted an article about the war for the anniversary of liberation issue one year . . . Oh, I was also active in military-political work. I created the first museum of battlefield glory of those who liberated the Donbas. I organized tours to the battlefields and meetings with veterans. Veterans from my unit came and we retraced the steps of our advance. There were young people greeting us everywhere. Before that I had written a long article about the liberation. Then I saw that it was attributed not to Alexander Kayzerman, but K. Aleksandrov.

—You were assigned a pen name?

Yes, in 1973. This was shocking. After returning from my trip I went to the publishing house where I had an acquaintance. I asked him why this happened. He said, “You see, we cannot publish something on the front page under that surname.” I said, “Guys, I’m not going to write for your paper if you won’t publish my name." There was another incident. My friends and I stumbled upon the records of an underground resistance movement in one of the cities of the Donbas during the war. Nobody knew about it. I wrote a long article and submitted it to the "Komsomol of the Donbas" newspaper. They said that they could not publish it without the KGB’s approval. I went to the KGB and the clerk told me to leave the materials with them. A month later I got a phone call: “We checked and the group really existed and was active.” They published it two weeks later with a pretty headline . . . and with no name. Later I was told that the oblast committee had issued a directive not to publish surnames of certain ethnicity.

—Thank you very much.

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