June 27, 2001 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H3705 colleagues again on the floor at a fur- emotion on both sides of the issue. a gentleman in Colorado who was con- ther time. There are people who would suggest cerned about the fact that this person f that even to bring it up is an indica- Mr. Manson, Mrs. Manson, Ms. Manson, tion of some sort of ulterior motive whatever, was coming in, and he was b 2115 that is akin to and always likened to concerned. Because in the past, this ENERGY CRISIS racism. particular rock idol had offered to I have said here on the floor many come in and do some sort of concert for The SPEAKER pro tempore (Mr. times, I will repeat it tonight. It is not the people who were responsible for the KENNEDY of Minnesota). Under the where we come from, it is the number deaths of the children at Columbine Speaker’s announced policy of January of people who come. In fact, we must High School. 3, 2001, the gentleman from Colorado deal with it. Hear me, Marilyn Manson would (Mr. TANCREDO) is recognized for 60 We may not like having to deal with come in to do a concert for the people minutes. it, but we may not like the debate that who killed them. There was concern Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Speaker, to- will ensue as a result of any change in about this kind of individual coming in night, I want to talk about a couple of our immigration policy, but it must be to Colorado again and spewing his subjects. done. It is for the good of the country, filth. So this person called our office First of all, I cannot help but reflect and it has absolutely nothing to do, as here. The gentleman that called, I be- upon some of the prior speakers and far as I am concerned, anyway, with ra- lieve, was Jason Janz. what they have talked about, espe- cial-related issues. It is a matter of Mr. Janz said, look, we are trying to cially in terms of our energy crisis. I quality of life. It is a matter of energy organize some sort of boycott. We will only spend a couple of minutes on resources that we have been talking think that people should just avoid that, because I addressed it a couple of about here. going to hear this particular per- times in the past also. As I sat here and prepared my re- former. He said, can we use your name It is undeniably true we have an en- marks, I listened to others speak. The in our, ad or whatever they were going ergy crisis in the United States. It is gentleman from Colorado (Mr. to do, and I cannot remember now undeniably true that gas prices are ris- MCINNIS) talked for an hour about the whether it was as a person who would ing, that blackouts, rolling brownouts, energy crisis. Although, he is abso- support our efforts or not. all kinds of things are occurring lutely correct in all of the things he I said to Mr. Janz, well, yes, you can. throughout the United States, but es- said in terms of why we are here, I I can certainly understand why you pecially in California and on the West must admit to the gentleman that the would be concerned. I do not think peo- Coast. one thing that he left out, which I ple should go myself; whether they do We spend a great deal of time in this think is extremely important, is the or not is, of course, their own decision body debating as to exactly why that fact that the reason we have this crisis to make. has occurred, and, in fact, there are a and the reason it will grow throughout Anyway, Mr. Janz used my name in number of reasons, of course. They deal the United States is because of the some sort of advertising or publication, mostly with supply problems. We just number of people we have in the coun- I do not know what it was, saying that do not have enough energy. We do not try and the number of people coming these people have also suggested that produce enough. in. people should not go to this particular AMERICA’S POPULATION GROWING AT A RAPID A little over, I will repeat, a little concert. RATE DUE TO IMMIGRATION, LEGAL OR ILLEGAL over 50 percent of the growth of this We had a storm of reaction to that. Mr. TANCREDO. There is a basic Nation in the last decade was a result There was a lot of protests, a lot of problem and there is something below of immigration, legal and illegal; 50 people called our office here and in Col- even all of that, which we must iden- percent of the cars on the road; 50 per- orado, in Littleton and said, how dare tify and talk about from time to time, cent of the houses that are popping up you? How dare you, a Member of Con- and that is the fact that America’s in neighborhoods all over the country gress, try to sensor this particular per- population is growing at a rapid rate. and what was at one time a pristine former? That population growth is a result, landscape; 50 percent of the problem I was, in a way, shocked, because, of not just of the birth rate of the people you have getting in to national parks, course, censorship is a term that can who have lived in the United States for any of the other kinds of issues come be defined. It is defined in the dic- some period of time, it is the result about as a result of population pres- tionary. It is pretty clear what censor- that over 50 percent of that population sures are, in fact, a direct result of this ship is. It means someone preventing growth in the last decade is a result of immigration issue. someone from expressing themselves. immigration into the United States, Mr. Speaker, I cannot come before Mr. Speaker, I tried to explain to the both legal and illegal. the House tonight without bringing people who called my office that, in California is a prime example of the that particular issue to the attention fact, I really was not trying to sensor problem. It has an enormous popu- of the Speaker and to those who may this particular ‘‘artist’’; that I really lation. It has enormous growth in the be listening. could not care less what he or she or it population primarily as a result of im- LIMIT GOVERNMENT FUNDING RELATING TO ART did. It was just that when I was asked migration. The United States Congress Mr. TANCREDO. Mr. Speaker, but whether people should participate in has a responsibility. It is to establish that was not the original intent, that this kind of garbage, I would say, no, immigration standards, immigration was not the original purpose I asked they should not. That is my opinion. quotas. for this time period to address the Their point of view was that I should We are the only body that can do House. be censored; that I should not be al- that. No State can do it. California A short time ago, Mr. Speaker, in lowed to say such a thing; that I should cannot determine how many people it Colorado, there was a rock star, ‘‘an not be allowed to criticize this par- will let in. It has to deal with however artist’’ of some sort, and I put the term ticular performer or anybody else, I many people come in, and in dealing ‘‘artist’’ in quotation marks, by the suppose, that they felt was a particu- with it, it has to build more power name of Marilyn Manson. larly important personage in the enter- plants, whether they like it or not. I admit I do not have any of this per- tainment world. It has to encourage conservation, and son’s, I was going to say gentleman, This whole thing was a fascinating it has to, in fact, tap the natural re- but I am really not positive what he or sort of phenomenon, because eventu- sources available to it. We will be she or it is, I am just saying, I do not ally Manson came to Colorado. It was doing that throughout this Nation as a have their particular records in my just last week or so, did his or her result of the dramatic increase in popu- cabinet. I had read something about thing. I am sure there was a large lation brought about primarily by im- this person’s particular ‘‘artistic’’ ac- crowd and everything was, you know, migration both legal and illegal. complishments. just pretty fine. No one likes to talk about this. It is I had a call one day, this was about 2 I do not know if people enjoyed it or an issue that oftentimes evokes a lot of weeks ago or 3 weeks ago, I guess, from not. I do not know, and I truly do not

VerDate 27-JUN-2001 03:31 Jun 28, 2001 Jkt 089060 PO 00000 Frm 00085 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\K27JN7.208 pfrm04 PsN: H27PT1 H3706 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 27, 2001 care. But the debate surrounding this troubled, confused, angry, defiant, de- been able to enter into the discussion whole event was characterized, I think, pressed, macabre, antisocial and an argument that, although, certainly, perfectly in an article that was in the sociopathic adolescent and arrested-ad- this person, Manson, should be allowed Rocky Mountain News last week. olescent audiences. And when you’re to perform, no one, certainly I would I am going to read it here. It is rel- high on drugs, gibberish can pass for never prohibit him from doing his atively short. It was written by a wisdom. thing by law. But the question remains friend of mine, his name is Mike Rosen. ‘‘If it weren’t for Manson playing this is whether or not someone should be He does a daily radio show in Colorado role, someone else would, and others forced to pay for it through the taking and writes a weekly column for the do. He claims to be an artist, crafting away of their tax dollars, providing it Rocky Mountain News. a poetic, philosophical message. More for this experience. And it goes as follows: ‘‘Greet Man- likely, he’s just another crass enter- Certainly there would have been an son with due scorn,’’ that is the title. tainment opportunist capitalizing on a outcry. Certainly people would have It says ‘‘personally, I think the rank market niche. You might say the same said absolutely not. You know, I do not demagoguery of Senate Majority Lead- of Alice Cooper, but Cooper has always care whether this person does its thing er Tom Daschle is far more dangerous done his thing with a wink, not to be on the stage and spews forth its bilge, to the well-being of our republic than taken seriously. It was obvious shtick. I do not care about that. If people want the sordid rantings of shock rocker Heck, Cooper’s a Republican, a big to do it, want to see it, that is their Marilyn Manson. But the thing I’d do baseball fan, and a 4-handicap golfer. business, and I certainly agree. But is silence either of them. Compared to Manson, Alice Cooper is making me pay for it through my tax If you’re going to allow free speech, Dr. Laura. In his heyday, Cooper sold dollars, that is something else entirely. you must take the risk that someone the bizarre; Manson spews the de- Now, that would have been an inter- might listen. While incitement-to-riot, praved. (And I’ll throw in my psycho- esting debate, and I wonder how it slander, and yelling ‘fire’ in a crowded logical diagnosis of Manson: he’s would have come out. I wonder if the theater are not tolerated in our soci- screwed up in the head, too.) City of Denver, I wonder if the mayor ety, the expression of ideas that are ‘‘Is Manson’s influence on troubled of the City of Denver had agreed to merely offensive is. and impressionable young minds poten- something like that, had put tax dol- If we voted on who could speak and tially destructive? I imagine it is for lars into it, I wonder whether or not who couldn’t, Billy Graham would some. While for others, listening to the mayor would not be in political probably win and Marilyn Mason prob- Manson may be benign, providing an trouble the next election. ably would lose. But we don’t put it to outlet for emotional venting that Would not people in the City say, a vote because this isn’t a democracy. might substitute for acts of physical how could you possibly make me pay for something like this? I think it is Our constitutional republic protects destructiveness. Teen-agers are at- horrible. Or even, I do not have an the rights of individuals, even unpopu- tracted to Manson as an act of rebel- opinion on it, I just have absolutely no lar ones. lion against conventional society pre- desire to fund this particular expres- Actually, Manson’s June 21 Denver cisely because he appalls their parents. sion of this particular ‘‘artist’’. appearance at Ozzfest is not really a I have no remedy for this. It’s one of Well, I think that that would be a le- First Amendment issue. The First the tradeoffs we make in a free society. gitimate argument. Do my colleagues ‘‘It’s not a question of whether Man- Amendment restricts government’s not, Mr. Speaker? I think that, in fact, son should be condemned or allowed to abridgement of free speech. that would be a legitimate debate had ANNOUNCEMENT BY THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE perform. Of course, both of these things we paid for that with tax dollars. I The SPEAKER pro tempore. The should happen. Manson debases our think there would have been signifi- Chair will remind all Members that the values, culture and civil conventions. cant political ramifications and reper- rules of the House prohibit character- Jason Janz’s criticism of him is wholly cussions to such a decision made by the ization of Members of the Senate even appropriate. Someone needs to say political leaders in Denver. though not their own remarks. that. Our indifference would be more But it did not happen that way. It Mr. TANCREDO. ‘‘The First Amend- disturbing. To most who attend, was totally voluntary. People went, ment restricts government’s Ozzfest will be little more than a fun paid their price at the door, and went abridgement of free speech. But gov- summer concert featuring a variety of in; and I say, of course, that is fine. ernment hasn’t threatened to muzzle performers. The Manson acolytes there They can do what they want to do. If Manson. He will not be barred from will be in the minority. And while they you ask me whether someone should do performing by any government offi- snigger at the establishment’s attack it, I would tell you no. It does not mat- cials. on their idol, it still serves a purpose. ter. I would never stop anyone from ei- The opposition to his performance They may understand when they grow ther going to see this person or, on the here has come from private groups led up.’’ other hand, I would never try to stop by Baptist youth minister Jason Janz, Again, that is Mike Rosen in the this person from actually getting on and others, employing moral persua- Rocky Mountain News. stage and doing whatever it is it does. sion, as is their right, to discourage Now, this leads to another issue and So the question, then, comes as to and disparage Manson’s act. even a much bigger issue than this par- how we can, every single year, take I’m no fan of Manson, or, for that ticular event in Denver Colorado in money from Americans, hard-working matter, his inspirational namesake last week. This leads us to a debate we Americans, many of whom have to Charles Manson. I don’t like his music, were having on the floor of the House make decisions about, you know, if his lyrics or his message. I’ve heard here last week. It was a debate on they are going to pay the rent this and read enough of it, dutifully, to get whether or not we should be funding month or if they are going to pay their the point. This from his newest CD the National Endowment for the Arts gas bill. ‘Antichrist Superstar:’ I will bury God and Humanities. How can we take money from them in my warm spit. I went to God just to It was fascinating from a number of to support the, quote, artistic endeav- see. And I was looking at me. When I’m standpoints. We have done this every ors of others of a similar, well no mat- God everyone dies.’’ Very enlightening. year. The debate occurs every single ter what. No matter if there was abso- year. Much of the same objections are lutely no argument as to the value, b 2130 heard over and over again as to wheth- quote, value of the art. It is still abso- ‘‘I find Manson neither thought-pro- er or not government funds should be lutely wrong for any of us here to voking nor profound. He offers mostly used to support ‘‘art’’. make that sort of elitist decision for sophomoric dribble (not that the work Now, what if this had happened in all members of society, that we would of Dion and the Belmonts, from my Colorado, everything that I just de- take away their money and give it to a era, was exactly Shakespeare, but it scribed, and this particular event had particular kind of art or a particular was good to dance to and at least it been paid for entirely with tax dollars? kind of artist. How can we justify that? wasn’t destructive.) To be sure, there’s Would there not have been a different I guess, to a certain extent, I am demand for Manson’s kind of bilge from kind of debate? Would we not have going to have to actually talk about

VerDate 27-JUN-2001 03:31 Jun 28, 2001 Jkt 089060 PO 00000 Frm 00086 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\K27JN7.210 pfrm04 PsN: H27PT1 June 27, 2001 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H3707 what we have been funding over these ler’s one-man performance titled ‘‘My chair Jane Alexander defended the per- years. I almost hate to say it, but I Queer Body’’. This play describes what formance, and the Walker Arts Center wish we could put up here one of these it is like to have sex with another man, has continued to receive NEA funds for signs that say ‘‘be careful, the fol- climbs into the lap of a spectator. I do several years. This year’s take, this lowing may not be suitable for viewing not even want to read this. was a couple years ago, this year’s take by young people’’ or whatever, because Shrugging off the controversy this for the avant-garde center is $70,000. it is certainly some of the nastiest sort year, the NEA gave the theater $28,000. The NEA was criticized in 1997 for of thing. I will try to avoid being too Wooly Mammoth’s 2000 season, this funding the Museum of Contemporary incredibly graphic, but I guess it is was last year actually, will include the Art in New York because of the work of pretty hard to suggest that this is not production ‘‘Preaching to the Per- Carollee Schneeman, an artist credited appropriate for us to discuss here since verted’’, written and performed by with inspiring Miss Sprinkle whose we paid for it, since we took money Holly Hughes, who herself has been the pornographic funding have caused a lot from Americans, from hard-working cause of controversy. of problems for the NEA also. I hesi- citizens and paid for this stuff that I Hughes sued the U.S. Government for tate to even go into what that one was am going to tell my colleagues about. refusing to fund her indecent work and about. Let us start with 1998, the National lost. The Supreme Court ruling was Franklin Furnace, New York. This Endowment for the Arts was criticized that NEA was not obliged to fund por- New York theater frequently receives for funding this New York theater nography. Despite this Court’s ruling, NEA funds. The theater’s performance which staged the play ‘‘Corpus Chris- the NEA is still choosing to pay for often promotes homosexuality and ti’’, a blasphemous play depicting Holly Hughes’ offensive work through blast traditional morality. Its year 2000 Jesus having sexual relations with his its support of Wooly Mammoth. In the grant, $10,000. apostles. Wooly Mammoth’s Internet catalog. The Theater for New York City, the By the way, a great deal of what has ‘‘Preaching to the Perverted’’ is de- Catholic League for Religious and Civil happened here, a great deal of what the scribed as follows: ‘‘If you loved the Rights brought this New York’s the- NEA chooses support has a decidedly solo extravagances of Tim Miller’’, the ater to national attention recently be- homo-erotic, anti-Christian, and cer- fellow I just mentioned, ‘‘you won’t cause of its anti-Catholic bigotry. The tainly not just anti-Christian, but a want to miss this unique and irrev- theater staged the play ‘‘The Pope and hatred of Christianity, and the most bi- erent evening of legal and sexual poli- the Witch’’, depicting the Pope called zarre kind of sexual connotation, not tics.’’ John Paul, II, as a heroin-addicted just connotation, but aspects that you Then there is the Whitney Museum of paranoid advocating birth control and can imagine. That really a lot of this American Art. It has been a regular re- the legalization of drugs. The theater stuff that they choose to do. Okay. cipient of NEA funds for over the years received a grant in 1997. The Americans One would have thought that the and several times provided fodder for paid for this, $30,000 in 1997 and $12,000 NEA might refrain from funding the the critics. This in recent years in- in the year 2000. Manhattan Theater Club ever again cluded a work by Joel-Peter Witkin ti- Really, I have just pages and pages of given the theater’s decision to present tled ‘‘Maquette for Crucifix’’, a naked this kind of thing. I will enter them ‘‘Corpus Christi’’. Not so. The very Jesus surrounded by sadomasochistic into the RECORD, but I will not go on next year, the theater was awarded an- obscene imagery and many grotesque with that in description here audibly other grant of $37,000. This year, the portrayals of corpses and body parts. tonight. It is just too revolting even theater received, not one, but two sepa- Another Whitney exhibit was a film for me to deal with. rate grants, each for $50,000. by Suzie Silver titled ‘‘A Spy’’. It de- But my point is this, that all of this In 1996 and 1997, the NEA received picts Jesus Christ as woman standing I consider to be absolute garbage. That sharp rebukes for funding this group, naked with breasts exposed. is my opinion. I cannot imagine anyone the Women Make Movies, that is what Again, this is hard it even go wanting to see it. I cannot certainly it is called, by the gentleman from through, it is certainly hard to de- imagine wanting to participate in it. I Michigan (Mr. HOEKSTRA), chairman of scribe. But we paid for it. We appro- certainly cannot believe that anyone the Committee on Education and the priated money in this House. We took would have the audacity to suggest Workforce Subcommittee on Oversight money from citizens in this country that we have to take money from peo- and Investigations. and paid for this. So it is only right ple who have the same feeling as I do At the time, the gentleman from that we should be forced to have to about this and give it to these per- Michigan (Mr. HOEKSTRA) noted that hear what we paid for as grotesque as formers in order for there to be a good the NEA gave over more than $100,000 it is. It is hard for me to read it. I am art thriving in America. over a 3-year period to Women Make sure it is hard for many people to hear 2145 Movies, that is the name of this organi- it. I do not like having to do it. But, in b zation, which distributed numerous fact, you paid for it, America. You It is ridiculous. It is idiotic. pornographic films such as ‘‘Sex Fish’’, might as well understand what you We have had an interesting discus- ‘‘Watermelon Woman’’, and ‘‘Blood Sis- bought. sion, as I say, over the whole issue as it ters’’. These films included depictions Incredibly, Whitney also included came through the Congress of the of explicit lesbian pornography, oral ‘‘Piss Christ’’, Andres Serrano’s photo- United States, and there are many as- sex, and sadomasochism. graph of a crucifix in a jar of urine, the pects of this that I think need to be In 1997, the American Family Asso- very same work which began the NEA discussed. Now, by the way, I suppose I ciation distributed to most Members of controversy in 1989, as well as a film by should mention, that those of us who Congress clips of some of these and porn star Annie Sprinkle entitled ‘‘The were opposed to funding for National other pornographic films distributed by Sluts and Goddesses Video Workshop Endowment for the Arts failed in our Women Make Movies. or How to be a Sex Goddess in 101 Easy attempt to reduce the funding of $150 Criticism of the NEA for funding a Steps’’, on and on and on. million. But it is not just this kind of group that distributes pornographic Walker Art Center, a performance at pornographic trash that it funds with works was dismissed by the agency this Minneapolis theater and NEA re- which I take exception. I believe it is which continue to fund Women Make cipient outraged Senator BYRD even, absolutely wrong for us to be making a Movies as late as 1999, giving two Democrat from West Virginia, and decision in this body as to what is ap- grants, one for $12,000, one for $30,000. many other Members of Congress. propriate, what is good art or what is The Women Makes Movies continues to To make a statement about AIDS, good television programming or radio. distribute hard core pornography. artist Ron Athey, who was HIV posi- I refer now, of course, to National Pub- Then there is the Wooly Mammoth tive pierced his body with needles, cut lic Radio, National Public Television, Theater Company, a Washington, D.C. designs into the back of another man, which we again take money from ev- theater, a frequent recipient of NEA blotted the man’s blood with paper eryone in America and we fund. money, generated controversy in the towels and set the towels over the au- Now, I happen to listen to National past for NEA when it staged Tim Mil- dience on a clothes line. Then NEA Public Radio. I enjoy many, many of

VerDate 27-JUN-2001 04:14 Jun 28, 2001 Jkt 089060 PO 00000 Frm 00087 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\K27JN7.214 pfrm04 PsN: H27PT1 H3708 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE June 27, 2001 its programs. My point is, however, the we should be able to determine what is would always say, look, if the program idea that my taste in either television good art; what is good television; I was on was not worth it, if we could or radio is something that should be right? not get people to watch that program the standard for the Nation. Because I The argument for television espe- and we could get them to contribute, happen to enjoy National Public Radio cially is the one that confounds me. then of course it was not good pro- I will tax everyone in this country to Every year people come into my office gramming and I probably should have help support it. Is that not somewhat and talk about the need to support, been kicked off and you should have bizarre? publicly support, public television. We found somebody else. Let me read from the Constitutional need to take tax dollars away from But the idea that I would come here Convention in Philadelphia August 18, people and do that. And I always sug- to the Congress and vote for money to 1787. This is incredibly amazing and gest to them that maybe, maybe 20 make sure that that particular station profound in a way because, as we see, years ago they could have made an ar- stayed on the air is crazy, any more the Founding Fathers dealt with all gument for some sort of alternative than I would vote for money for any the problems that we confront every television programming, because there other particular station to stay on the single day and they really had an in- were only three major broadcasting air. Again, it is certainly not because I sight that bears reflecting upon. 1787, systems and relatively little choice, I am particularly opposed to the kind of August 18. Charles Pinckney of South suppose, among those three different programming they have. It is maybe Carolina rose to urge that Congress be broadcasting systems. They could have fine. Some of it is fine, some of it is authorized to ‘‘establish seminaries for perhaps made the point, well, there is lousy from my point of view. But that the promotion of literature and the just a need for a different kind of tele- does not matter. It is just my opinion. arts and sciences.’’ Modest proposal; vision programming and no one is But it is absolutely wrong for me to come to this body and vote to force ev- right? He suggested that the Congress going to produce it, so, therefore, let us eryone in this country to support my of the United States be authorized to go ahead and take tax dollars away from people and provide it. brand of programming. establish seminaries for the promotion Dr. Robert Samuelson said some time of literature and the arts and of They could have made that point. I would not have agreed with them, but ago that the funding of cultural agen- science. cies by the Federal Government is Now, remember, seminaries had a dif- it would have been a much more logical highbrow pork barrel, and I certainly position to take than coming in here ferent connotation in this particular agree. We are taking from the poor to today, today, to this House, in this time period. We are not talking about subsidize the rich. It is the reverse year of 2001, and saying there is not necessarily religious institutions. In Robin Hood theory here. In fact, most enough diversity on television; we need this case he was talking about intellec- of the programming on these stations, to take money from everybody in tual pursuits, educational institutions even a lot of the ‘‘art’’ of the NEA has America to fund my brand of television solely. His proposal was immediately absolutely no appeal whatsoever to the because it is better, it is better for peo- voted down. In the words of one dele- bulk of America, the majority of Amer- ple, it is more intellectual, more high- gate, the only legitimate role for gov- icans, certainly Americans of low in- ernment in promoting culture and the brow, it is good for people to have this come. They are not really interested by arts was ‘‘the granting of patents, i.e. available to them, when there is, what, and large in that kind of entertain- protecting the rights of authors and 150, or heaven knows how many actual ment. Again, if they are, that is fine. artists to make money from their cre- stations there are out there with cable They can make their own decisions ations.’’ That, he said, was the only le- television. I certainly have lost count about it, but it is incredible to me that gitimate role for government in pro- myself. All I know is there is no one, I we can do this; that we can take money moting culture and the arts. believe, no one that can argue that from them and provide support for ma- The framers treasured books and there is not diversity in programming terials and for programming that is music, but they treasured limited gov- on television today. And yet our par- only really enjoyed, I say only, but pri- ernment far more. A federally approved ticular brand, our particular idea of marily enjoyed by a different group of artist was as unthinkable to them as a what good television is is what we say people, and most of the time people federally approved church or news- in this body everyone is going to pay more well off. paper. This is why the Constitution for. Again, it seems a bit peculiar to There is also the issue of the corrup- does not so much as have a hint at sub- me. tion of the artists and scholars that we sidizing artists or cultural organiza- I actually did a program in Colorado fund. It is I think absolutely true, no tions. It is why Americans have always on public television, a sort of talking one I think who has been around here been skeptical about the entanglement head show. I used to do it every Friday, for any length of time disagrees with of art and State. And it is why so many and I enjoyed it. And every year they the fact that government funding of artists have snorted at the notion that had a period of time that the station anything involves government control. art depends upon the patronage of a would devote to fund-raising, and all That insight of course is part of our Washington elite. the participants and everybody that folk wisdom. He who pays the piper And that is a very good way of por- wanted to, I suppose, could come on for calls the tune, as they say. And it is traying what happens here. It is incred- an hour or two and stand up in front of quite true. We never give out a dollar ibly elitist for us to say we know in people and ask for money, ask for sup- here in this body without also saying this body, the 435 Members of the port for the station. I called it a beg-a- how it should be spent. Those are the House, the 100 Members of the Senate thon. And I would do it. Every single strings we attach to it. And when we do and the President of the United States, year I would go on and say, if you want that for the ‘‘arts,’’ it has a corrupting we know, at least a majority of us to support this, if you think that we in influence on it. Artists and want-to-be know, what is the best kind of art for fact are doing something good enough artists begin to gravitate toward what the American citizens to observe or in terms of television that you believe they think the government is going to participate in. Incredibly elitist. In- it should be continued, then I encour- fund and find themselves sort of chas- credibly elitist for us to suggest that age you to get out your checkbook and ing the government dollar. the particular television programming send this station money. And I am The influence of government funding that we believe to be uplifting or stim- more than willing to do that. I did of the arts is a negative one and a cor- ulating or whatever is appropriate that, as I say, every single year, be- rupting one. The politicization of what- enough to tax everybody to support. cause that is exactly the way ‘‘public ever the Federal cultural agencies What gives us this incredible atti- television’’ should be funded, by dona- touch was driven home by Richard tude? It is the fact, of course, that we tions. Goldstein, a supporter of the National make many decisions here all the time They then would come to me, the Endowment for the Humanities him- that tend to make us all feel, I suppose, same station would come to me as a self. But he pointed out that ‘‘the NEH pretty omnipotent and omniscient, be- Member of Congress and say, how could has a ripple effect on university hiring cause we know everything and we have you not then vote for funding for our and tenure, and on the kinds of re- power over everything and, naturally, station when you were on it? And I search undertaken by scholars seeking

VerDate 27-JUN-2001 03:31 Jun 28, 2001 Jkt 089060 PO 00000 Frm 00088 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\K27JN7.216 pfrm04 PsN: H27PT1 June 27, 2001 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD — HOUSE H3709 support. Its chairman shapes the tists, that is fine. If they split it up Now, I happen to believe completely bounds of that support. In a broad with the Jews, the Catholics, the Pres- that there is such a thing as good art, sense he sets standards that affect the byterians, whatever, it is their decision good music. I believe that it can be all tenor of textbooks and the content of to make. It is their $150 million. They of the things that people say. I believe curriculum. Though no chairman of the will make the decision. How many we can be inspired by it. We can be mo- NEH can single-handedly direct the Members in this body would agree with tivated by art to do wonderful things. course of American education, he can such a thing? No one. I suggest that we But I also suggest, Mr. Speaker, that if nurture the nascent trends and take would not get very many votes for such there is such a thing as good art, good advantage of informal opportunities to a proposal. And rightly so. music, good literature, then there is signal department heads and deans. He It is not our place because the such a thing as bad art, bad music and can ‘persuade’ with the cudgel of Fed- minute that we start doing that, we are bad literature. And it has the opposite eral funding out of sight but hardly out automatically discriminating if we effect of the good art. I believe that is of mind.’’ pick one over another, which must be true. That is my personal observation, Then, finally, every time we debate done. There is absolutely no difference, my personal belief. this issue we are confronted by people Mr. Speaker, none whatsoever, in the I choose not to impose that belief on who will say that we must do this, we funding of the arts and the funding of anyone by law, but I will make the must in fact provide money for the arts religion. Each one of those things has case when I am allowed here on the community, the National Endowment its particular brand. It appeals to cer- House floor, allowed to debate this for the Arts and Humanities, because tain individuals and not others. Some- issue in any public forum, I will talk of the effect that the arts have on our body has to make a decision about about the fact that I believe we are in spirit, the soul, the uplifting nature of which one of these things gets funded, the midst of a culture war and there the arts; that to provide public funding and then we will come to the House are competing sides in that war that for this is a good because of the way it and hold up a list of things that has are actually grappling for the soul of in fact changes the culture, and they been funded by that organization and the Nation. I will try my best to defend would suggest, for the positive. Well, some people will be outraged by it, as what I believe to be the good side as what if, Mr. Speaker, I came before the I imagine there were some tonight as I opposed to the bad side, but that is my body and suggested that there was an- was reading through the list of things decision to make. And it rests on my other kind of experience that does ex- that we have funded that the govern- ability to convince my friends or rel- actly that; that provides a tremendous ment has paid for. Some people will lis- atives, as well as it does with any one amount of benefit to the Nation; that ten and say that is great stuff. I wish a of us here as to who is right and who is does amazing things for the soul, up- billion dollars was put into it. wrong. lifting in nature; that it can change a What happens is there is discrimina- person’s attitude about life; that it can tion in this because every time some- Even as a Member of the Congress of motivate you to do great things, all body gets one, every one artist gets the United States, it is not in my au- these things I have heard on the floor funded, some artist does not, and that thority to force anyone out there to as to the reason why we have to fund means somebody is making a decision agree with it by the power that is vest- the arts? about which is better. I suggest that is ed in me as a Member of this House to an impossible decision to make for ev- vote for a tax to enforce my particular b 2200 eryone. It is absolutely appropriate for view of who should be helped in those Mr. Speaker, I suggest that there is me to do it for myself; it is not appro- culture wars. We have to do it through another argument I could make using priate for me to do it for all of my con- the power of persuasion. exactly the same logic. What if I were stituents. This place, Mr. Speaker, is the place to come before the body and say, I Mr. Speaker, the hypocrisy that in which the battle occurs oftentimes, know something that we should be rears its head here, certainly daily, but maybe even daily. Because this is the doing that does all of the things I have on this particular occasion when we de- place in which we have determined just said, is an incredible influence on bate the NEA, the National Endow- that a great debate should go on about our lives, that provides an outlet for ment for the Arts, public broadcasting the nature of our society, about the emotional needs of millions of people, and all of the rest, this hypocrisy is kind of people we are. It is the place of and it is called religion and I am going overwhelming. It is so stark. ideas. It is certainly the free market- to ask this body to appropriate $150 Mr. Speaker, I suggest that we are place of ideas. And we are allowed to million this year for religion. undeniably in the middle of a culture come before the body as I have tonight Now, the first thing that someone war. We have heard that term many to express our opinions. I hope that we would say is we cannot do this because times. It is a war of competing ideas have to a certain extent, anyway, even there is this wall of separation that ex- and world views. On one side we have a small extent tonight, made a case for ists in the minds of many, but nowhere people who believe in living by a set of allowing that debate to occur without in the Constitution, by the way, that divinely moral absolutes; or the very the influence of the power of govern- separates church and State. But the least, they believe that following such ment to tax and help one side in it as real reason why we cannot do it and a moral code represents the best way opposed to another. the reason I would never suggest it be- to avoid chaos and instability. cause the minute we decide to fund re- On the other side, we have people Let us simply talk about it here, but, ligion in this body, we will then begin who insist that morality is a moral de- Mr. Speaker, I suggest to you that to decide whose religion, what brand of cision and any attempt to enforce it is there again is no more hypocritical religion. What about this particular de- viewed as oppression. That war is a thing that we do here in the Congress nomination? Why should they not be real one which is carried out every sin- of the United States than to take funded as opposed to that denomina- gle day in the halls of our schools, money away from people in support of tion? around the watercooler of our busi- a particular brand of art or music and Someone somewhere would have to nesses, in the newspapers of the Na- then argue about whether or not that make a decision. So we would establish tion, on television. In every form of should happen with regard to religion. an Endowment for Religion, and we communication, the culture war is on- would appoint some people to it. We going. There is a battle for the soul, for f would say we will give them the money the mind, for the actual personality, if because Congress does not want to get you will, of the Nation. LEAVE OF ABSENCE into the battle about which religion to Mr. Speaker, I think that is pretty fund. We will give $150 million to the much accepted as being true. We know By unanimous consent, leave of ab- National Endowment for Religion, and that there are these competing sets of sence was granted to: they will make the decision because values out there trying to grab us and Mr. THOMAS (at the request of Mr. they are the experts. They know what get us on their side, whatever that ARMEY) for today after 2:00 p.m. on ac- is best. If they give it all to the Bap- might be. count of attending a funeral.

VerDate 27-JUN-2001 03:31 Jun 28, 2001 Jkt 089060 PO 00000 Frm 00089 Fmt 7634 Sfmt 0634 E:\CR\FM\K27JN7.217 pfrm04 PsN: H27PT1