J Oral History Interview on Love
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Houston Asian American Archive (HAAA) Chao Center for Asian Studies Interviewer: Ann Shi Interviewee: J Date of Interview: Dec 15, 2020 Transcript by: Ann Shi Audio length: 1:02:23 Background: J (they/them) is Korean who lives in Seoul, Korea. They believe in a non-amatonormative approach towards love and relationships where one relationship (whether it’s friendship or romantic relationship) does not take priority over another. J has been self-identified as AMAB1 neutrois since 2016 and they are currently around 30 years old. J and their partner (who is gender fluid) are also asexual— sexual activity is not a priority for them; their connection is experienced more at levels of mutual understanding and shared values. The interview went through some of J’s journey in forming their values towards relationships and love, their relationship with family, and their advocacy for trans rights and feminism rights as part of the “Trans Liberation Front” organization. Setting: This interview happened via Zoom and is an audio only interview. This interview is part of the HAAA Love Stories special collection. Key: AS: Ann Shi J: J Interview Transcript: AS: Today is December 15, 2020, my name is Ann Shi. I'm with the Houston Asian American Archive. Today we have J, whose pronoun is they/them, who will be sharing their perspectives with us on love and gender identity surrounding non-amatonormativity— a term coined by Professor Elizabeth Brake, who is a Professor of Philosophy at Rice University. This interview is for the archive’s “Modern Asian in love” podcast in the “Asian Diaspora in Houston” series. And we're very thankful for your time, J, for sharing with us about your perspectives. J: About amatonormativity, right? AS: Yes, yes, that would be wonderful. To start since, um, this is the first time you've been with the archive, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? J: 1 AMAB stands for “assigned male at birth”. 1 Houston Asian American Archive (HAAA) Chao Center for Asian Studies I'm living in Seoul, but I was born in Ulsan, which is a Southern metropolitan city of South Korea. And I've been identifying myself as neutrois since 2016. And now I'm working as a interpreter and translator as a freelancer. That's all. AS: That's wonderful. Thank you. And I guess just for the record, what ethnicity do you identify as? J: Ah, oh, Korean. No, no— I'm not an ethnic minority in my country. AS: Okay, and what were some of the important family values in your upbringing? J: Um, my family. I have my parents, both mother and father and I have a younger brother. AS: And what were some of the family values for example, like, were they kind of emphasize on say, being honest, being sincere in your connection with people? Like what were some of the more important values do they try to instill you with in your upbringing? J: They- they were really emphasized on loyalty to families, for example, you should respect your elder, the elderly, in your relatives and family and also some kind of strong bond between siblings. Those two are... Yeah, so very emphasized. So when I was in childhood and adolescence. AS: Thank you, and what have been the perception or expectation of gender roles in your family in your upbringing? J: Even though I identify as neutrois, my outward appearance is much looks like, just- just a male person. So they always put me, our emphasis as a first son person, which... I need to support when- whenever they retire their job, but which is quite against my- my creed. Because I think after 20, I- I'm independent. So I think it's okay, not to support each other. Like from I- I'm, I'm back for my parents, or my parents are back for me. But for them it is quite crucial point to maintain as a family. So it's kind of a very, very deep reason why I, I don't like to be with— I don't like to live with them. So maybe this is kind of Korean thing, I think. I don't know. [chuckles] AS: I'm sure probably with the firstborn, it's very different. And there's probably some expectations of responsibilities such as carrying on the family blood and the family name. Is that something that might have been— something in your family? Or has it impacted your personal relationship in any way? J: For me, I, I don't care, whoever I met as a partner. But for them, it should be someone who is, o r who was born to be female and who is still identified herself as a woman. So, for them, they are... for them, this heterosexual relationship is crucial; but for me is, is, is... It doesn't matter. So many thing, many, many things such as relationship and love and partnership, they- they are still complete with me. 2 Houston Asian American Archive (HAAA) Chao Center for Asian Studies AS: Thank you for sharing, and moving on to the actual part of the interview, can you share with us— what do you think of the word "love"? J: As I wrote in my email, I don't put a great emphasis on love, because for me, that word doesn't mean specifically the romantic theme. But it can be useful. It can, it can be usable to describe any relationship that I put a great emotional effort on them such as a family member, or a person I know, for a very long time, and personal partner. So for me, there is no differences on emphasis, for partner and brother and other family members. Just I can call any of these relationships are based on love, but maybe the degree of love will be different. But I can say just, but all of them are love. AS: Thank you. And next I guess as this podcast is about love, relationship, and specifically, amatonormativity. Can you share with us some of your understanding about amatonormativity? And what kind of lifestyle, what kind of personal relationship do you expect in a non-amatonormative life? J: You mean non-amatonormative life? AS: Yes. J: In comparison with those— for example, romantic relationships. Ah, for example, um, I I've been- I've been with my current partner, for about a year now. And- and during this period, I— we didn't- we didn't... Let me see... partnership on relations, such as, we have to make intercourse every day or every week. So other Korean, their sexual partnership, this is kind of very basis or keeping their relationship; but for us, is nothing. So by in the meantime, they, my partner and me were first identify as asexual. So sexual intercourse doesn't matter for us; don't matter for us. But for others, this is very crus- crucial. So. And also, we don't— we, we don't... we do support for emotional support; but we don't- we don't think we have to support each other for financial support. Yeah, something, like something that could be important in heterosexual relationships, amato— non-amatonormative relations are not- not a big thing for my relationship. AS: Thank you for sharing. And next, I was just wondering, how do you connect with people? Like, um, how- what type of style? Yeah. J: This is the COVID-19 days. So I reduce meeting too many people about maybe... For example, in the last year, I- I'd love to meet a lot of people; for example, I may at least twice or three times to go out and hang out with my friends for dinner, or beer time. And they were... and I didn't care whether they are male or female. So those for me, meeting a new person is the kind of thing that I can understand them each other, so. But these days, I don't really communicate with many people, except my partner, and some of my long, long standing friends. AS: 3 Houston Asian American Archive (HAAA) Chao Center for Asian Studies Thank you for sharing. Um next I'm wondering what kind of experiences or what— how, what kind of people, or just in general, what are the journey in that you took in coming towards identify yourself as neutrois? J: I've been conflicted to use my body image and my body type. And because after the secondary sexual characteristic on my body, I, I hate it. Why should I have this kind of thing in my body? And sometimes I, I search it for surgery, and, um; but there were, there were, there were nothing that 100% identify with my ideal body type. So I still have some kind of body dysphoria and gender dysphoria with my body. But during maybe, for me it was it took two, three or four years to identify as neutrois, because neutrois is kind of brand new language in Korea. So, even though I had constantly, I had been, I had, I had, I had a lot of research on, for example, going to library or meeting some within some social minority organization; but even they were working for social- social minority, and they didn't know the word— what is neutrois? But they just suggest me as a transgender, who are conflict with themselves as gender dysphoria. But I wasn't- I wasn't... I- I did, I couldn't feel fulfilled about that term.