And 4 December 2013

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ─ 4 December 2013

3579

OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS
Wednesday, 4 December 2013
The Council met at Eleven o'clock

MEMBERS PRESENT:

THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE JASPER TSANG YOK-SING, G.B.S., J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALBERT HO CHUN-YAN THE HONOURABLE LEE CHEUK-YAN THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE CHAN KAM-LAM, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG DR THE HONOURABLE LAU WONG-FAT, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE EMILY LAU WAI-HING, J.P. THE HONOURABLE TAM YIU-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE FREDERICK FUNG KIN-KEE, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE VINCENT FANG KANG, S.B.S., J.P. 3580

THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-HING, B.B.S., M.H. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P., Ph.D., R.N.

THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE RONNY TONG KA-WAH, S.C. THE HONOURABLE CYD HO SAU-LAN THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LAM TAI-FAI, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KA-LAU THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-CHE THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE IP KWOK-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P.

THE HONOURABLE ALAN LEONG KAH-KIT, S.C. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG KWOK-HUNG THE HONOURABLE ALBERT CHAN WAI-YIP THE HONOURABLE WONG YUK-MAN
3581
THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TIEN PEI-CHUN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE NG LEUNG-SING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING THE HONOURABLE GARY FAN KWOK-WAI THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN DR THE HONOURABLE KENNETH CHAN KA-LOK THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. 3582

THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG THE HONOURABLE SIN CHUNG-KAI, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. THE HONOURABLE TANG KA-PIU DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHUNG SHU-KUN, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TONY TSE WAI-CHUEN

3583

MEMBER ABSENT:

THE HONOURABLE CHAN YUEN-HAN, S.B.S., J.P.

PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING:

THE HONOURABLE MRS CARRIE LAM CHENG YUET-NGOR, G.B.S., J.P. THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION

THE HONOURABLE JOHN TSANG CHUN-WAH, G.B.M., J.P. THE FINANCIAL SECRETARY

THE HONOURABLE RIMSKY YUEN KWOK-KEUNG, S.C., J.P. THE SECRETARY FOR JUSTICE

MR YAU SHING-MU, J.P. SECRETARY FOR TRANSPORT AND HOUSING

THE HONOURABLE TSANG TAK-SING, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR HOME AFFAIRS

THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND WELFARE

PROF THE HONOURABLE K C CHAN, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FINANCIAL SERVICES AND THE TREASURY

THE HONOURABLE GREGORY SO KAM-LEUNG, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR COMMERCE AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT

THE HONOURABLE RAYMOND TAM CHI-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR CONSTITUTIONAL AND MAINLAND AFFAIRS

THE HONOURABLE LAI TUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., I.D.S.M., J.P. SECRETARY FOR SECURITY 3584

THE HONOURABLE EDDIE NG HAK-KIM, S.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR EDUCATION

THE HONOURABLE PAUL TANG KWOK-WAI, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE CIVIL SERVICE

DR THE HONOURABLE KO WING-MAN, B.B.S., J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH

THE HONOURABLE WONG KAM-SING, J.P. SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

THE HONOURABLE PAUL CHAN MO-PO, M.H., J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT

MS CHRISTINE LOH KUNG-WAI, J.P. UNDER SECRETARY FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

MR GODFREY LEUNG KING-KWOK

UNDER

SECRETARY

FOR

COMMERCE

AND

ECONOMIC

DEVELOPMENT

CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE:

MR KENNETH CHEN WEI-ON, S.B.S., SECRETARY GENERAL MRS JUSTINA LAM CHENG BO-LING, DEPUTY SECRETARY GENERAL MR ANDY LAU KWOK-CHEONG, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS ODELIA LEUNG HING-YEE, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MRS PERCY MA, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL

3585
PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Will the Clerk please ring the bell to summon Members to the Chamber.

(After the summoning bell had been rung, a number of Members entered the Chamber)

TABLING OF PAPERS

The following papers were laid on the table under Rule 21(2) of the Rules of Procedure:

Subsidiary Legislation/Instruments

L.N. No.

188/2013 189/2013
Waste Disposal (Designated Waste Disposal Facility)
(Amendment) Regulation 2013 ..............................

Waste Disposal (Refuse Transfer Station) (Amendment)
Regulation 2013......................................................

Public Health and Municipal Services Ordinance (Public
Pleasure Grounds) (Amendment of Fourth

Schedule) (No. 2) Order 2013 ................................

190/2013

191/2013
Professional Accountants (Amendment) Ordinance 2013
(Commencement) Notice........................................

Other Paper
Report No. 6/13-14 of the House Committee on Consideration of Subsidiary Legislation and Other Instruments

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Honourable Members, as all of you must be aware, since quite many items of business have to be dealt with in this meeting, I reckon that not all items of business on the Agenda can be disposed of by tomorrow evening. As some activities have already been scheduled for different periods tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, I intend to suspend this meeting at 12 pm 3586

tonight until 2.30 pm tomorrow in the hope that the debate on the Member's motion on "Establishing a low-income subsidy system" can be concluded before the suspension of the meeting tomorrow evening until 9 am on Friday for, hopefully, the completion of all Agenda items by 2 pm. Otherwise, the meeting will have to be resumed at 7.30 pm on Friday after the conclusion of the Finance Committee meeting until all business items have been dealt with.

QUESTIONS UNDER RULE 24(4) OF THE RULES OF PROCEDURE

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Questions. Apart from six oral questions for this meeting, I have permitted Mr CHAN Kam-lam and Dr KWOK Ka-ki to respectively ask an urgent question under Rule 24(4) of the Rules of Procedure.

First urgent question.

Immediate Measures to Ensure Personal Safety of Hong Kong Travellers in Thailand

1.

MR CHAN KAM-LAM (in Cantonese): President, it has been reported that recently, the political situation in Thailand has deteriorated rapidly, with anti-government demonstrators attempting to occupy the government headquarters in Bangkok, the capital, and paralyse the Government's operation. There was even a shooting incident last weekend, resulting in five dead and 57 injured, and the Thai Government immediately imposed "curfew" in Bangkok. Besides, the Travel Industry Council of Hong Kong indicated that as at Monday of this week, about 40 group tours, totalling about 1 000 Hong Kong people, still stayed in Bangkok. There are worries about their personal safety, and so far only some travel agencies have announced suspension of the departure of group tours. Some members of the tourism industry have pointed out that unless the authorities have issued a black Outbound Travel Alert (OTA) for Thailand, quite a number of people who have enrolled in group tours will travel to Thailand in the coming period (especially during the travelling peak season in Christmas). In this connection, will the Government inform this Council:

(a) of the authorities' current assessment of the situation in Thailand
(especially in Bangkok); whether the OTA for Thailand will be raised to the black alert so that the relevant government departments

3587

and travel agencies will expeditiously adopt corresponding measures to protect the personal safety of Hong Kong people who are staying in or going to travel to Thailand; whether the Government has discussed with the travel agencies about raising the OTA and suspending the departure of group tours to Thailand;

(b) whether the Government knows the number of Hong Kong people who are still staying in Bangkok at present, including the number of people who are travelling in group tours and that of independent travellers; of the measures currently adopted to provide instant safety information and assistance proactively to travel agencies and independent travellers; whether the Immigration Department (ImmD) has looked into the requests for assistance from Hong Kong people in Thailand through the Office of the Commissioner of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (OCMFA) in Hong Kong and the Chinese Embassy in Thailand; and

(c) whether the authorities have made preparation in case of further deterioration of the situation in Bangkok which results in emergencies, actions can be taken immediately, including providing chartered flights to carry Hong Kong people back to Hong Kong and sending ImmD's officers there to provide Hong Kong people with assistance?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): President, my reply to the three parts of the question is as follows:

(a) The Hong Kong Special Administrative (HKSAR) Government has been closely monitoring the situation in Thailand. Since early November this year when a number of large-scale demonstrations took place in Thailand, the Security Bureau has been gathering information on the local situation through different channels, including the Office of the Commissioner of the OCMFA in Hong Kong, the Chinese Embassy in Thailand, the Thai Consulate-General in Hong Kong, the travel industry and the media. We have also made reference to the travel information and alerts issued by other countries.
3588

In view of Thailand's latest situation which may change shortly, we have uploaded the latest situation onto the Security Bureau's OTA webpage. We have also notified residents who have registered their itineraries and contact details through the ImmD's Registration of Outbound Travel Information (ROTI) service and the GovHK Notifications Apps. For example, on 25 November, the Thai Government implemented the Internal Security Act in Bangkok and surrounding areas empowering the officials and military to take emergency measures including the imposition of curfew in serious cases; on 30 November and 1 December, violent clashes, including gunshots, occurred in the area of Ramkhamhaeng University in northern Bangkok, resulting in casualties; in the evening of 1 December 2013, the Thai Government urged people in Bangkok to stay indoors from 10 pm on 1 December to 5 am on the following

morning for safety reasons.

The HKSAR Government has

informed Hong Kong residents these developments through the abovementioned channels.

In view that the situation in Thailand (Bangkok) remains tense with the possibility of deteriorating, which shows no sign of early resolution, the HKSAR Government decided to raise the OTA for Thailand (Bangkok) to Red at noon on Monday (2 December). Residents intending to visit Bangkok should adjust their travel plans and avoid non-essential travel. Those already there should monitor the situation, attend to personal safety and avoid protests and large gatherings of people. The OTA for other parts of Thailand remains at Amber.

The Security Bureau will continue to closely monitor the latest situation and review the OTA for Thailand and Bangkok. Any update will be issued through the media, the Bureau's OTA webpage and the GovHK Notifications Apps.

(b) According to the latest information from the Hong Kong Travel
Industry Council, as at today, there are 23 Hong Kong tour groups with about 461 members in Bangkok/Pattaya/Hua Hin. We will continue to disseminate the latest information through the media, the Bureau's OTA webpage and the GovHK Notifications Apps.

3589
Since the HKSAR Government raised the OTA for Thailand (Bangkok) to Red at noon on Monday, the ImmD has issued updated information to 423 residents who have registered under the ROTI and are currently in Thailand or intend to travel to Thailand this month. We encourage residents to register their itineraries and contact details through the ROTI before departure so that the ImmD can disseminate practical information to them on a timely basis when necessary.

The ImmD has been obtaining the latest situation through the OCMFA and the Chinese Embassy in Thailand. To date, the Chinese Embassy has received one assistance request from a Hong Kong resident who has lost contact with his friend in Bangkok but has soon re-established contact. The ImmD has not received any assistance requests to date.

(c) The Security Bureau has formulated a Contingency Plan for
Emergency Response Operations outside the HKSAR for providing assistance, in accordance with the contingency plan, to Hong Kong residents whose personal safety is affected by large-scale natural disasters or sudden incidents outside Hong Kong. When Hong Kong residents encounter large-scale incidents abroad, we will maintain close contacts with the OCMFA and the local Chinese Diplomatic or Consular Missions to provide practical assistance to them.

The contingency plan covers the assessment of whether normal flight operations are able to effectively address the demands of stranded Hong Kong residents wishing to return in case of emergency. When necessary, we will contact major local airlines to reserve certain seats ("reserved seats") or charter special flights ("chartered flights") to bring back stranded Hong Kong residents if possible.

It is worth mentioning that there is no direct linkage between whether "reserved seats" or "chartered flights" would be arranged and the issue of an OTA by the Security Bureau. The former depends on whether normal flight operations are able to effectively respond to the demands of bringing back stranded Hong Kong residents under special circumstances. The OTA, on the other
3590

hand, serves to provide an appropriate alert to Hong Kong residents, based on the risk assessment and threats to personal safety of Hong Kong residents in the event of major incidents.

MR CHAN KAM-LAM (in Cantonese): Secretary, the tensions in Bangkok might ease slightly as certain demonstrations there will cool down in celebration of the birthday of the King of Thailand. In light of the experience gained over the past years, however, confrontations between "red shirt protesters" and "yellow shirt protesters" would invariably lead to coups or bloodshed, which would in turn trigger riots all over the country. President, travel alerts issued by the Government are extremely important information for travellers in general and mean a lot to them, too. The Secretary has also made it very clear in the main reply that the situation in Bangkok may deteriorate in the coming period. Will the Secretary inform this Council under what circumstances the Government will decide to raise the OTA to Black?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): The existing OTA system is classified into three levels, namely Black, Red and Amber. When the highest alert, the Black OTA, is in force, all travel should be avoided. It is issued only when the circumstances are very bad. When the Red OTA is in force, non-essential travel should be avoided. For instance, outbound group tour travel is not considered by everyone as essential. However, urgent overseas duties might be considered by some people more essential. Hence, the Black OTA, the highest alert, implies that members of the public should avoid visiting the relevant places under all circumstances. The Red OTA means that members of the public are advised to avoid travel if possible. Finally, the Amber OTA implies that members of the public should pay attention to the situation. These three travel alerts are not unique to Hong Kong because a similar alert system is in force in other parts of the world as well.

Perhaps let me cite an example. In this incident, as I mentioned just now, we have been closely monitoring the situation in countries or places where an OTA system is in force, information on their assessment of the situation in Thailand, and the travel alerts already issued. To date, travel alerts higher than general warnings for Bangkok have only been issued in two places, namely Hong Kong and Taiwan. In Hong Kong, the travel alert was issued at noon on the day before yesterday. In Taiwan, the travel alert was upgraded later that day from

3591 grey to yellow, though it is not exactly the same as Hong Kong's Amber alert but somewhere between our Amber and Red alerts. In most of the other countries, a yellow alert rather than a red one is still in force. Some individual countries have only issued warnings rather than alerts for Bangkok.

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): President, many members of the public in Hong Kong are very concerned about the situation in Thailand and query why the Administration does not issue a Black OTA to enable people who have enrolled on group tours to have their air ticket, hotel and tour fees refunded, so that non-essential travel to Thailand can be avoided. Hence, the Government is suspected of colluding with business in favour of the interests of tourism operators, hotels and airlines. In addition to the occurrence of an incident in Thailand last weekend, which resulted in five deaths and 57 people injured, the Thai Government has also announced the implementation of the Internal Security Act in Bangkok for the imposition of curfew. Under such circumstances, may I ask the Secretary why a Black OTA is not issued to enable members of the public in Hong Kong to claim refund of their group tour, air ticket and hotel charges?

SECRETARY FOR SECURITY (in Cantonese): With regard to Mr WONG's supplementary question, I would like to point out that travel agencies in Hong Kong are governed by a set of guidelines which provides that they should assist people who have enrolled on group tours in claiming refund, and so on, for reasons beyond control. Under Resolution no. 177 of the Directives issued by the Travel Industry Council of Hong Kong, "reasons beyond control" cover red/black OTAs issued by the Hong Kong SAR Government. In other words, travel agencies in general will cancel tours once a Red OTA is issued.

We can tell from our past and the current experience that group tours to
Bangkok would be cancelled by travel agencies after the issuance of the Red OTA. As regards the large-scale demonstrations that occurred in Bangkok, as mentioned by Mr WONG just now, and even the violent clashes that occurred in the suburbs and caused casualties subsequently, I must point out here that, insofar as this incident is concerned, the demonstrators have gathered mainly at government buildings whereas tourist districts in general remain unaffected. We can actually see from television reports, just as the information constantly provided to the media by many people in the tourism industry, the tourist districts remain unaffected. The incident resulting in casualties in the evening actually 3592

occurred outside the venue of a meeting attended by people of a certain camp in the suburbs of Bangkok, where ordinary tourists, not confined to Hong Kong people, will not visit. Hence, when we look at the whole situation, we have to consider not only what has happened in general, but also the places Hong Kong people will usually visit in Thailand and whether their personal safety will be affected, such as whether the general flight operations are normal when they return to Hong Kong. A host of factors will be taken into consideration by us. Besides Hong Kong, other countries will consider these factors, too.

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, what is your point?

MR WONG KWOK-HING (in Cantonese): President, regarding the

Government's refusal to issue a Black OTA, I have pointed out in my supplementary question that members of the public have queried whether the Government is colluding with business in favour of the interests of tourism operators, hotels and airlines. However, the Secretary has not answered this question. Does it mean that the Government will not issue a Black OTA so long as there are no casualties of Hong Kong people?

PRESIDENT (in Cantonese): Mr WONG, please do not give any comments. The Secretary's response to your allegation just now was already very comprehensive.