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Alexis Sornin Appendix “A” Transcript: CBC Sounds Like Canada, May 14, 20081 Shelagh Rogers: …Canada, and I'm Shelagh Rogers. There are many conflicts across the country between natives and non-natives over resource development. Six Anishinabi leaders from Northern Ontario are in jail at the moment because they tried to stop a uranium mine on their traditional territory. Tensions remain high on the boundary between the Six Nations Reserve and Caledonia, Ontario. The Six Nations people oppose a housing project on land they claim as theirs. Disagreements about industrial development occur within aboriginal families, as well. <00:33> Today's generation of aboriginal leaders can make decisions their elders oppose, and these disagreements can create some tension. Peter Penashue is Deputy Grand Chief of the Innu Nation in Labrador, and he supports the provincial government's plan to develop more hydroelectric power on the Churchill River. His mother, Tshaukuesh, strongly disagrees. They're in Goose Bay this morning. Hello to you both. <01:00> Peter Penashue: Good morning. Tshaukuesh Penashue: Good morning. Shelagh Rogers: Peter, would you start by telling me how the first phase of the Churchill Falls Hydroelectric Project affected your people? That was back in the 1970s. 1 Audio file previously submitted to Joint Review Panel. Inaudible portions highlighted. Page 1 of 10 Peter Penashue: Yes, the project released for operation in 1974, and at that time the land that was flooded was 5,700 square kilometres, which was a huge tract of land and flooded many of the traditional lands of the Innu people, and valuable historical lands, and flooded the burial grounds. <01:44> These are obviously the impacts that this project had on the Innu people. Shelagh Rogers: Tshaukuesh, what did your parents lose in the 1970s with the development of the Churchill Falls Project? <02:01> Tshaukuesh Penashue: I remember my father said, "This is a good place. This is a good place. There's lots animals everywhere. We should come here next year." And then he left all his stuff – tents, stove, and traps, all the stuff that belongs… hunting stuff. Everything under the water. Everything flooded under the water. Everything under the water. Always, always we <02:35> <inaudible> about <inaudible> Peter Penashue: Yeah. Tshaukuesh Penashue: Burial grounds. All in the water. And it's very, very sad. Shelagh Rogers: Tshaukuesh, you spent a lot of time travelling in the Labrador wilderness with your parents. You once told a documentary film crew that you could see mist from the falls a long distance away. <03:00> What did you see when you last visited the falls? Tshaukuesh Penashue: Every time when I go Churchill Falls with my family, since(?) [sometimes(?)] I took my grandchildren, there's nothing – nothing there anymore. I can't… I cannot see anymore mist. Mist? Did I… I hope I say it right. Shelagh Rogers: You sure do. Page 2 of 10 Tshaukuesh Penashue: Yeah. And I stop many times in… on the… on the bridge with my grandchildren. <03:33> I ask my husband, "Stop. Stop." I wanted to show my grandchildren. I explain my grandchildren, "You see that? Couple of years ago there was lots of water. See that? No water." We just… little bit, very small. When I see that, I'm very, very sad deep in my heart. <04:00> Sometimes I cry. Shelagh Rogers: Peter, I understand that you've told Danny Williams and the government of Newfoundland and Labrador that you will help make the Lower Churchill Falls Project a reality if the Innu people are properly compensated. What do you want in return from the government? <04:26> Peter Penashue: Well, I don't know if I said that I would actually help them, but what I did say is that any project that develops in Labrador is going to require consent from the Innu people. In the days when the projects like Churchill Falls were proceeded without consent of the Innu people, without any consideration, without any compensation, are long gone. We understand how the process works now, and we understand there are investors out there who are very different, and they're very much more socially conscious of the impact that their monies have on people. <05:00> So, you know, it's different times. You know, hydro projects, mining developments of this sort requires the satisfaction, I guess, of investors of knowing that their money is not going to be misused or abused to alienate the aboriginal peoples of the local areas that they're working in. Our position has been that our land claims, our land negotiations has to be resolved. And if projects like Lower Churchill are to proceed, then that's a condition that we put on the project. <05:32> And so we've told Danny Williams that without settling our land claims there is not going to be a Lower Churchill. Because if we agree to proceed with a project like Lower Churchill, that's going to create something like a thousand people over ten Page 3 of 10 years, and those thousand people are going to bring their families, children, some of them will stay. I mean, the population growth of the local(?) area is going to be enormous, and with the population growth like that, it is going to change the political landscape of Labrador. <06:02> So, we have to factor in our interest when we start talking about the projects like Lower Churchill. And furthermore, there's no way that our people are going to agree. If compensation is not being considered from the Upper Churchill, and there has to be reparations, and it's the standard way of working with the past grievances, and we expect the same. <06:29> And so those are on the table, and so I'm not sure if I'm saying that I would help him build the project. What I am saying is that he wants the project, there are conditions attached. Shelagh Rogers: I think I hear the question you're asking, Peter, is how do you as Innu sustain yourselves? Is that right? Peter Penashue: Well, the question has always been in my mind. I mean, I'm a young person. I'm 43 years old, and I started in this business when I was 16, and I started off being a very nationalistic person. <07:00> And sometimes very much wanted Canadians out of our lands, and that Innu people to come first, and that was the starting position that I've had. And clearly I grew out of that, and I realized that as aboriginal people and as Canadians, that we have to be able to accommodate each other and Innu people have to find a place. We have to look after ourselves, as well. Shelagh Rogers: Tshaukuesh, how do you feel about the Lower Churchill Falls Project going ahead? <07:30> Tshaukuesh Penashue: I am very, very concerned. If the government start another dam, I am very, very concerned. I said many times, thousand, thousand years Innu people was… went hunting Churchill River. I can see Churchill River, so Page 4 of 10 beautiful river. What's going to happen? Where the people they're going to hunt? And I won't be happy. Where I gonna go canoe trip again? I did that. Eleven years I went canoe trip. Every summer. August '96(?). And always, different people support me, came canoe trip with me. That was <inaudible> people and <inaudible> people, and sometimes the white people, <inaudible> came, and young children. <08:29> Sometimes when I finish camp in the evening, I walk on the beach. I sat down on the beach thinking about this river is so beautiful. Trees. Mountains. Long beach. I'm thinking about animals. Is not only fish. All kind of animals. And everybody like us, the people, Innu people, we don't want to drink dirty water. <09:00> I want to drink clean water. Same animals. Animals, they don't want to drink dirty water. You want to drink a clean water. First, when I went canoe trip with my husband and my people, I was very, very… <9:19> <inaudible> Peter Penashue: Surprised. To my shock(?). Tshaukuesh Penashue: Mm-hm. I was very, very surprised when I see a big sign – paper. <09:31> I told my husband, "Did you ever see when you're young this? A big sign?" I went many, many, many miles. We walked with my father and my mom when I was young. I never, never see the other big sign. And then the other paper said not to eat the fish. You can eat a fish, just little bit. <10:00> Maybe one week, just twice. I was very, very sad when I see that paper. That's why I didn't want to stop what I'm doing, canoe trip every summer. I don't want to see another dam. Shelagh Rogers: Tshaukuesh, besides the canoe trips, you've been taking people on what you call <10:24> <inaudible>, which are long winter walks in the wilderness in Labrador. <10:30> I have some sound I want to play for you, and this is from two non-Innu women who went with you on this year's walk. Here's a little bit of what they had to say. Page 5 of 10 Carly King: <recording> Well, my name's Carly(?) King, and minus the first couple of days, I was there for the entire walk. Her knowledge of the land is very impressive, extensive.
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