The Reminiscences of Mr. Fred L. Black

From the Owen W. Bombard interviews series, 1951-1961 Accession 65

Interview conducted: March 1951 Transcript digitized by staff of Benson Ford Research Center: November 2011

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m LIFE WITH FOKD

Interview with Mr. Fred L. Black by Mr. Keith Clark, representing Ford Archives, on March 10, 1951 at Mr. Black's residence, Ij831 Old Orchard Trail, Orchard Lake, Michigan. BLACK INTERVIEW -- March 10, 1951

p. 1 Black's birthdate and place, schooling, employment

E. G. Pipp, editor of Detroit News

Ford's interest in starting newspaper

p. 2 Ford drops idea of starting newspaper during WW I (1917) and

expresses renewed interest in 1918.

Second hand press purchased from Franklin Press

pg. 3 Black accompanies Mr. Pipp to see Ford

Meet at Henry Ford & Son

p. 4 Ford offers job running business end of paper to black

p. 5 Mentions Ford's purchase of Dearborn Independent from

Woodruff, who was later a staff member

Ford organizes Dearborn Publishing Co.

p. 6 Staff mentioned: Ben R. Donaldson Walter Blanchard January 11, 1920 -- 1st copy of Dearborn Independent p. 7 - 8 Background leading to purchase of newspaper. Ford's $5 day and ensuing criticism, peace advertise mines, attacks by Tribune, Peace Ship ridiculed, Ford's wish to express ideas, Senate campaign

p. 8 - 9 Mt. Clemens News agency est. 'd 1919 to send stories favoring

Ford to newspapers

p. 10, 12, 13 Trial mentioned (libel suit against Chicago Tribune)

p. 10 Ford's "History is bunk" statement discussed mention of Ford's wish to establish museum showing real history of United States.

p. 1 3 Black finds Finis Bates, author of The Escape & Suicide of John Wilkes Booth, for Ford. C Black researches Lincoln's assassination BLACK INTERVIEW -- March 10, 1951 (2) p. 14 Ford's fascination with American history

Mentions Edison Institute, Village, Museum as Ford's showing real american history. p. 15 Ford tells Black to build wireless

Mentions Charlie Voorhess, head of Henry Ford & Son Power Plant; Ed Chambers p. 16-17 Black's attempt to build wireless p. 17 Ford broadcasting station WW I

Mentions Donaldson one of announcers p. 17 - 18 Ford's yachet, Siala, outfitted with wireless p. 19 Discusses Ford's curiosity p. 20 D. T. & I. purchased by Ford, 1921

Mentions Dale Roeder, an engineer p. 21 Ford's page in newspaper mentioned

Growth of circulation

Walter Btemchard mentioned p. 22 Mentions Ben Donaldson, valuable staff member

Mentions Pierce Cummings p. 2 3 Ford and Hamlin Garland recited from McGuffey Readers, p. 24 Mr. Liebold mentioned

Pipp resignation over Jewish articles p. 25 J. J. O'Neill, fine writer and heavy drinker

Mt. Clemens News Bureau became Independent News Bureau p. 25-26 Ford's views on drinking discussed p. 26 Discussion of Ford's habit of spending great deal of time on particular projects. BLACK INTERVIEW -- March 10, 1951 (3) p. 27 Plans for building new engineering laboratory building p. 28 Ford's view of League of Nations mentioned p. 29-31 Movement to nominate Ford for President

p. 31 Wilson's asking Ford to run for Senate

p. 32-33 Muscel Shoals deal '

p. 34 John Wilkes Booth research

Carl Sandburg mentioned

p. 35-38 Black's Booth research

Bates' history exposed as fraud

p. 39 Ford's continuing interest in Lincoln, Wm. Holmes McGuffey

and Thomas A. Edison discussed

p. 40 Reproduction of McGuffey's desk for Museum

p. 41 Piece of tree McGuffey planted given to Ford

p. 42 Ford's collection of McGuffey Readers

McGuffey Societies meeting at Edison Institute

p. 43 MISSING

p. 44 Edison's encouragement of Ford

p. 45-46 Gasoline engine experiments

First homemade engine should be at Museum

p. 47-48 Ford has luncheon for Edison

p. 48 Edison liked dirty stories

p. 48-49 Ford tells dirty story to emphasize point,

p. 50-52 D. T. & I. Railroad

p. 5 3 Modern construction of Engineering Lab

p. 54 Black as secretary-treasurer of Edison Institute and Greenfield Village BRCK INTERVIEW -- March 10, 1951 (4) p. 54 Hamlin Garland's visit to Dearborn p. 55 Ford takes Garland over present location of Museum k Village

l^ Ford's search for dish design from when he was 12 p. 56 ^Ford's efforts to collect things from boyhood -- furniture, farm.

' machinery

Ford's interest in Wayside Inn p. 57 Ford's efforts to reconstruct Wayside Inn

Ford's habit of going to Museum or Village when troubled

p. 58 Ford's interest in early American history discussed

p. 59 Ford's purchase of antiques

Garland's books on his early boyhood impressed Ford

p. 60 Ford began buying antiques through agents

Mr. Taylor -- antique dealer who joined staff of Edison Institute

Charles Newton mentioned

p. 60-61 Clarification of names of Edison Institute, Museum & Greenfield Village ment p. 62-63 Scotch Settle School among first buildings in Village

Ford's ideas about running Scotch Settlement School

p. 6 3 McGuffey School constructed

Various schools in the Village discussed

Benjamin Lovett supervised Scotch Settlement School

p. 64-65 Dedication ceremony for Edison Institute, October 21, 1929

President & Mrs. Hoover amont these invited

p. 65 Edison's surprise at restoration of Menlo Park buildings in Village described. BLACK INTERVIEW -- March 10, 1951 (5)

p. 66-67 Ford supervised details of Village and Museum development

Restoration of Wright Buildings discussed,

p. 67 Purchase of Clinton Inn

p. 68 Edsel & Clara's participation in developing Village

Cotswold Cottage mentioned

p. 69 Contrast Village &: Williamsburg

p. 70 Ford's views on American industry as evolving from past

Criticism didn't bother Ford

p. 71 Design of Museum and Institute planned

Ford's view of adding future items to collection discussed

p. 72 Limitations of space in Museum & Village

p. 7 3-74 Edsel's interest in Museum & Village project

Karl Guthe's idea that graduate students form supplementary staff not followed

p. 74-75 Edsel voiced concern re authentication and choices.

p. 76 Public relations program inconsistent

p. 77 1940 Am, Soc. of Museum meeting co-hosted by E. I.

p. 78 Financing E. I. discussed

p. 78-79 Architects experienced difficulty laying out Museum.

p. 79 Music Gallery

Early American silver collection

Ford's interest in transportation, furniture, and items pertinent to Edison, Lincoln or McGuffey r p. 80 Ford's views on Hearst collection

Edsel's purchases from Tiffany's and emphasis on authenticity

p. 81 Edsel and art discussed BLACK INTERVIEW -- March 10, 1951 (6)

p. 82 Edsel's desire to improve museum discussed

p. 83-95 Difference between Henry Ford & Edsel's philosophies delineated. Examples cited to demonstrate their approaches to various situations and decision-making. Conflicts between them also described.

p- 93 Work on V-8 in Ft. Myer lab

p- 96-97 Ford ran schools based on reading, writing and arithmetic as fundamental. Ford kept involved with School's ciriculum.

• p. 97-8 Student body selected arbitrarily

p- 99-100 Old-fashioned dances described

p- 101-107 Visit of Prince of Monaco

p- 107-108 Prince of Rumania's visit

p- 109 Prince of Wales and Crown Prince of Sweden visit

Ford's respect for heads of nations

p. 110 Ford's tendency to lose self in Village & Museum

p. Ill Discussion of Ford's unselfconsciousness with royalty

p. 112-113 Henry Wallace's visit to Dearborn

p. 114-116 Edsel Ford, Diego Rivera and murals

p. 116-118 Discussion Museum's financial plight and attempts to raise money

p. 118 Organization of the People's Museum Asspc.

p. 119 George Pierrot takes over publicity for Museum

Committee of preachers view Rivera murals at Pierrot's request

p. 120 Meetings on Rivera murals

p. 121 World Adventure Series begun

Peoples Museum Assoc. membership

1. 121-122 Criticisms of Rivera mural project. BLACK INTERVIEW -- March 10, 1951 (7) gk p. 123-125 Price-cutting at FMC \

p. 126 Ford's views on committees |

p. 127-130 Sorensen & FMC politics

p. 130-134 Liebold and FMC politics

p. 135-141 Harry Bennett and FMC politics^J

p. 137 Cameron as Ford's interpreter

Theodore Lenine and Peace Ship

p. 138 MISSING

p. 139-151 Cameron as spokesman for Ford

p. 152-159 Henry Ford and press relations

p. 1 60 Martha Mary Chapel mentioned in connection with Cameron's

religious writing

W p. 161-2 Ford's views on religion and reincarnation discussed

p. 163-67 MISSING

BLACK INTERVIEW -- June 2, 1952

p. 168 Ford News

p. 169 Ford's spreading interests, starting in 1914

p. 170 Ford News

p. 170-177 Henry Ford and radio s

p. 178-185 FMC advertising

p. 186 Model A

p. 187 Edison's Village, Menlo Park, Florida lab was working place of small group of engineers on V-8 project. c_ p. 188 Ford aviation p. 189-191 Advertising policy

p. 193-198 Chicago's World Fair BLACK INTERVIEW -- №£ June 2, 1952

^/. p. 196 Ford's barn sent to Chicago's World Fair

p. 199-200 Detroit Symphony Program

p. 201 Edsel's ideas on design

p. 202 Edsel's participation in the fairs mentioned

p. 203 Museum represented in Chicago exhibit

p. 203-205 Rotunda from Chicago moved to Dearborn

p. 205 E. I. exhibit mentioned MT LIFE WITH FORD

Interview with Mr. Fred L. Black by Mr. Keith Clark, representing Ford Archives, on March 10, 1951 at Mr. Black's residence, 1*831 Old Orchard Trail, Orchard Lake, Michigan. This interview taken on a tape recorder and edited by Mr. Black September, 1956.

I was born in Battle Creek, Michigan, January 26, 1891. When I was three we moved to Ohio, and I attended school in Kenton, Ohio, After graduation from Kenton High School in 1911, I entered Miami University, Oxford, Ohio, where I received a B.A. degree in 1915. I then entered the employ of the Whitaker Paper Company, Cincinnati, Ohio. After traveling in Kentucky for them as a salesman for a year, Whitaker transferred me to Detroit as a salesman and in charge of advertis- ing for the Detroit area. This was in 1916. Around that time I became acquainted with Gaylord Pipp, who had a printing plant on Grand River Avenue near Warren. His father was E. G. Pipp, then editor of the Detroit News. I lived in the Northwest section of Detroit and would occasionally stop by the printing plant after work, and there met the father. One day, in the fall of 1916, he phoned and asked me to have lunch with him* He told me at this luncheon that he was a friend of Henry Ford. He said Mr. Ford was interested in starting a newspaper in Detroit. He asked me if I would find out about costs and availability of printing machinery for such a paper. He said Mr. Ford did not want it known that he was interested, because it would start a lot of rumors, and he, Mr. Pipp, did not want it known that he was interested, as it could possibly affect his relations with the Detroit Hews. I got in touch with several printing press manufacturers, and discovered that it would take a year to 16 months for delivery of new equipment. I also did some checking concerning the Detroit Journal in which - 2 -

Mr. Pipp said Mr. Ford might be interested. However this fell through, and the Journal was later bought by the Detroit News. Naturally printing press manufacturers and those from whom I sought information wanted to know who I represented, I told them a group of wealthy people who did not want their intentions to be known until they decided whether or not to go ahead. As I had never met Mr, Ford, no one connected me with him. I reported to Mr. Pipp evenings and he furnished the information to Mr. Ford. In April, 1917* a short time after we entered the first World War, Mr. Pipp told me Mr. Ford had decided to drop the idea of publishing a newspaper until after the war ended. Mr. Pipp reported Mr. Ford told him, "We'll have to devote all our attention to helping the country in its war effort." I hoped, of course, that if Mr. Ford did publish a paper, that I would have first chance at any paper contracts* As a matter of fact, Mr. Pipp suggested that idea to me in one of our talks. As the war went on, the subject was dropped. Mr. Pipp interviewed Mr. Ford at various times for the Detroit News but said Mr. Ford did not talk about the possibility of him becoming a publisher. In November of 1918, shortly after the war^was over, Mr. Pipp came to my office and said he had just talked that morning to Mr. Ford and that he wanted me to bring up to date all information I had collected and get new quotations on machinery* It was fortunate that I had kept copies of all the paper work previously involved. That was very helpful as a starting point. Mr. Pipp also asked me to learn if there were any second hand presses and other printing equipment which might be for sale. One of my customers was the Franklin Press, Detroit. I knew that this company had at one time printed — 3 «• the American Boy Magazine and still had the press. Mr. Pipp told me to get an option on it if I could. Mr. Terry, the manager of the Franklin Press, asked 15,000 for the press, which originally had cost many times that amount. I obtained an option for #£0.00. j donit remember the length of time it was to run. The press had been for sale for several years. I took up the option within thirty days. Mr. Terry was very much upset when he eventually found who was buying it. He said the press was really worth ten or fifteen thousand and Mr. Ford could well afford to pay that. However, he cheerfully went through with the deal. On Saturday morning, the latter part of November 1918, November 25 I believe, I went with Mr. Pipp to Dearborn to meet Mr. Ford. Mr. Pipp said that Mr. Ford wanted to talk with me and was sending a car to pick both of us up. "Don't be surprised," he said, "if Mr. Ford offers you a job. And if he does, I hope you will take it." I met Mr. Ford in Charlie Sorenson's office at the Henry Ford & Sons plant in Dearborn. That is now the location of the engineering labora- tories* In the office, in addition to Mr. Ford, there w»e Charlie Sorenson, Er^ie Kanzler, and one or two others whom I don't remember, Detroit was planning a big peace parade to celebrate the end of the war. The theme was to be "Mow we will beat our swords into plowshares." Mr. Ford, Sorenson and Kanzler were discussing this parade and what part the Ford Motor Company and Henry Ford & Sons (a separate company manufacturing tractors) would take in the parade. Suddenly Mr. Ford turned to me and said, "Look, call up Mr. Fitzgerald, secretary to Mr. Marx (mayor of the city of Detroit), who is making the arrangements for the parade and find out what he actually wants. I was a little startled to say the least and the - k - thought flashed through R§r mind, "He thinks I'm already working for him,w I called Mr. Fitzgerald and a fifteen minute conversation ensued with Mr. Ford suggesting various questions, also Sorenson and Kanzler. After everything about the parade was settled to Mr. Ford1 s satisfaction, he turned to me and said, "Say, let's go out and see where we are going to put this printing plant." We looked over a location and I compared it with the dimensions of the press and other machinery and equipment, including a composing room. We stepped this off rather than measuring it with tape and I said it was sufficient space for the plant* After this was finished, Mr. Ford suddenly turned to me and said, "We've got to have somebody to run the business end of this thing. How would you like to come out and work on it?" I told him I thought that would be very interesting, and he asked, "When can you start?" I said that I had an agreement with the Whitaker Paper Company that I should give them two weeks notice if I wanted to leave their service, and if they ddcijled they didntwant me, they were supposed to give me two weeks notice. !

"Two weeks?" he said, "That's entirely too longj I'd like to have you here Monday fiorning." I told Mr. Ford I»d try to get in touch with Mr. Whitaker, the president of the Company and explain the situation to him, and be there Monday morning if I could make it. I phoned the manager of the Whitaker Detroit Branch and asked him if he would wait that afternoon until I could return to the office. He knew nothing about the work I'd been doing getting information for Mr» - 5 -

Ford, for I had told no one. He waited for me and I explained the situation, telling him I'd like to take the job. He said, "Well, I can't release you; your contract is with the president of the company. ... Let's see if we can get him on the telephone.'* He tried to get Mr. Whitaker on the phone, but found he was playing golf. The Whitaker Cincinnati operator suggested many golf clubs we might try, but we couldn't locate him. Mr. Burr suggested that I write Mr. Whitaker a letter, and said that he also would write him a letter, because there were some things he could say that I couldn't. But Mr. Burr suggested I take a chance and report at Mr. Ford's office on Monday. I was at Mr. Ford's Dearborn office on Monday morning at 8:30, and at about lljOO Mr. Burr called me and said he had a telegram for me from Mr. Whitaker, and he also had a telegram from Mr. Whitaker. He said his telegram told him to release me. Mr. Burr asked if I'd like him to read the telegram to me. It expressed congratulations and regret over losing me, but said this sounded like a great opportunity for a young man, and he certainly wouldn't want to stand in my way. Mr. Ford already had purchased the little country newspaper, the Dearborn Independent, which had a circulation of about a thousand. He said he was going to make it a great international newspaper. He thought it was a rather interesting idea to take a little country newspaper and make it into a great medium for information.

f The Dearborn Independent*previous owner was a Mr.-Woodruff, who hadn't made anything out of it, and was glad to get rid of it. We later employed Mr. Woodruff as a member of our staff. Mr. Ford also had employed Mr. Pipp as editor and he reported the same day I did. - 6 -

"While Mr. Pipp was building up the editorial staff, I as business manager employed a business and operating staff. In the meantime, Mr, Ford had organized the Dearborn Publishing Company to publish the paper. In April, 1919> I employed Ben R. Donaldson to be in charge of mailing, and Walter Blanchard, who is now (1°£6) in the Ford Motor Company advertising department, as circulation manager* It wasn't until January 11, 1920, that we issued our first copy of the Dearborn Independent, The International Weekly. It is interesting to summarize what led up to the purchase of the Dearborn Independent, In l°lli, Henry Ford had adopted the 15,00 a day minimum wage. This created a terrific amount of interest all over the world, and there was argument pro and con, not only in the newspapers, but in the magazines, as to how this would affect not only the United States, but world economy. This made Mr, Ford not only a national, but an international figure in industry. He was beseiged by writers from everywhere seeking his opinions — not only on economic, but social problems, political problems and any problems that might affect people generally — including marriage and divorce! He then, I think this was in 1915> ran a series of advertisements in the American press on peace, in an attempt to keep America out of war» As a result of these ads, and other statements he made about peace, the Chicago Tribune ran an editorial in which they called him an ignoramus and an anarchist. This resulted in a libel suit for a #1,000,000 against the Tribune, a suit which did not come to tarldl until the summer of 1919 in Mb, Clemens, Michigan, - 7 -

In December, 191> Mr. Ford had organized the Peace Ship, and that increased the interest of the world press. He said many times, one of the reasons he wanted a paper of his own was to put on educational campaigns and be sure what he wanted to say was said the way he wanted to say it. He rather doubted the real interest of the press in promulgating his ideas. The Peace Ship had been a cause of much ridicule. It became the butt of various columnists and people on the stage. This confirmed the opinion of Mr. Ford that if his ideas were to be properly expressed, he had to do it himself. And then — I think №. Ford like many self-made men who have made a lot of money, wanted to be connected in some way with a newspaper or other medium of general communication. Mr, Ford was asked by President Wilson to be a candidate for the United States Senate* This naturally increased his stature as a public figure. Until sometime in June, 1919, I devoted full time to the Dearborn Publishing Company. Then the Ford-Tribune trial got under way and Mr. Ford asked me to come to Mt. Clemens, Michigan, where the trial was held and start a news bureau to cover the trial and give "the straight story", He said the Chicago Tribune, being a large newspaper, and a member of the Press Associations, would probably be favored by them and his side of the story, the"true story of the trial and its background would not reach the American public." As a result, I became manager of the Mt. Clemens News Bureau with S. G. Pipp as editor and ¥, J. Cameron, later editor of the Dearborn Inde- pendent, as principal writer. We added other members to the staff — a man by the name of Joe O'Neill, whom we had hired from the New York World, who had interviewed Mr. Ford many times for the World the preceding three or four years. - 8 -

The Press Associations used our releases. We also sent out queries to all the dailies and weeklies in the United States offering to file a daily wire story to any paper which might want it, without charge except for telegraphic fees or costs. We also offered to send a printed release to those papers who wanted merely that service and stereotyped releases and mats to smaller papers who wanted either of those. We were sending one type or another of these releases to almost every paper in the United States and some *© Canada. 24r. Ford said the country newspapers would undoubtedly be sympathetic to him and they were. In some cases, the larger newspapers published the regular A.P. or U.P. dispatches, and also our releases, while the smaller papers used only our mats or stereotypes. During the trial, Mr. Ford made his famous statement, "History is bunk," And almost everywhere in the United States, someone knew something that would support his contention, and in consequence we received thousands of letters containing statements from American history they called "bunk". Many of these letters cited the same incident, such as the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, and the reported escape of John Wilkes Booth* Two people sent in copies of a book, "The Escape and Suicide of John Wilkes Booth" by Finis L. Bates, who claimed John Wilkes Booth escaped and settled in Texas, became a saloon keeper there under the name of JohnSt. Helen, and later a house painter in El Reno, Oklahoma, under the name of David George, and n " finally committed suicide on January lit, 1903 in the Grand Hotel in Enid, Oklahoma. That fall, after the trial was over, Mr. Ford read one of these books, and sent for me. He asked me to read the book and tell him what I thought of it. I read it twice that night, because I knew Mr. Ford would be following me up the next day to get my reaction. He did# - 9 -

I told him I found it very interesting but that there were some weak spots in it. If they could be cleared up, there might be something to it. He said, "]?ind this man, Bates, if you can.n The name of a Chicago printing plant was given on the title page of the book which had been published in 1907. What Mr. Ford meant by his statement, "History is bunk," judging from his subsequent remarks, was that the real history of a people was not expressed in terms of wars and some of the dramatic events that happened, but in the way people lived and worked. Later he often said he was going to establish a museum that would show the real history of the United States, He thought that history as written emphasized the military and political side entirely too much* He always said the history of America wasn't written in Washington, it was written out in the country. Mr. Ford was a fundamentalist. He expressed a great many truths that people didn't understand at the time he said them. As time goes on, I'm greatly impressed by the fundamental thinking he did, analyzing basic truths and philosophies. The Mb. Clemens trial was a terrific ordeal. He felt it was taking time he should be devoting to other more important things. But he was in it and was going to see it through. I know from things he said afterwards, he regretted his appearance on the stand. He'd been told by the attorneys, I understand, that he should take it easy on the stand, take plenty of time to answer questions, and to give them tljae to object when necessary, and by np means to let the opposing attorneys get him mad. He wasn't on the stand long until he was answering the opposition attorneys immediately, giving ours no time to object. He became quite angry - - 10 - and of course the high spot was when he made the statement about history. The newspapers immediately picked it up and used it as a key phrase in his testimony. The testimony is a matter of record. The verdict was in Mr. Ford's favor. The damage award was six cents. Henry Ford had a tremendous following in the country. Not only the smaller newspapers, but the people generally were strongly for him* He summed it up correctly when he said the people in the country and the smaller towns would be sympathetic to his side of the Ford-Tribune story. Further, as to the "John Wilkes Booth escape", I phoned the Ford offices in Chicago. They contacted the printer of the book and I finally located Mr. Bates, the author, who was an attorney in Memphis, Tennessee and asked him to come to Dearborn. He spent a couple of days answering questions about his sources of information. He admitted there were weak spots in his story, but said they could be cleared up if he had the money to do the necessary research. Mr. Bates came to Dearborn several times at Dearborn Publishing Company expense. Apparently he had made very little out of his practice and his standing in Memphis wasn't very high. He said he had an $8,000 mortgage on his house. He wanted a loan from Mr. Ford of that amount and as collateral, offered to send Mr. Ford the purported body of John Wilkes Booth, which he said he had stored in his garage# Mr. Ford thought Mr. Bates was honest, but not very smart. So I was assigned to research the story and see if the weak points could be cleared up. I spent about two months in the Congressional Library; made numerous trips to various parts of the country in 1920. These are described in the series of articles which appeared over my by-line in the Dearborn Independent in 1925. I started out with the idea of supporting the Bates' story but was convinced before long that it couldn't be supported. - 11 -

I was able to prove that the Bates story was untruej that he had changed letters and statements to support his thesis but that Booth actually was shot in a Virginia barn, as the history books said. Mr. Ford was interested in the results of each of my trips and would listen to my reports when I returned. After he became convinced the Bates story was a fake, he lost interest, I, however, continued research when I had time until the articles were published in 1925. Mr. Ford's interest in American history increased as the years passed* Probably his statement, "History is bunk", intensified his desire to "write his own book of history," the Edison Institute, Greenfield Yillage and the Henry Ford Museum* Mr. Ford always was interested in new developments. In September or October, 1919> I passed his secretary's office one day. Mr. Ford was there. He saw me and motioned for me to come in. He said, "Say, Fred, what do you know about wireless?" I said, "I don't know anything, Mr. Ford. Just the stories published in the newspapers." He said, "Well, I think it would be a damned good time to learn. You make me one of these wireless receiving outfits." I left his secretary's office, wondering whether Ird better quit, right then, or see what I could do. He might as well have told me to make a rocket to go to the moon, for all I knew about wireless at that time. (The term radio was not then used). I went back to my office and thought about it a little while, and decided if anybody knew about wireless, it would be the head of the Henry Ford & Son Power Plant, Charlie Voorhess. I went over and told him about the instructions I had received from Mr. Ford. He said, "Don't worry about itj I've just hired a young man, M Chambers, who was an officer in the signal corps - 12 - and knows a lot about wireless. "I'll get him in here, and I'm sure he can help you." When Chambers arrived, he said, "Oh, there'll be no problem making a receiving set. I'll get the material and make one for Mr. Ford." "Oh, no," I protested, "you can't do that, I've got to help make it, because Mr. Ford told me to, and if he should ask me if I did, I'll have to tell him the truth." His answer was, ttOkeh, I'll make you a list of parts you will need. The place to buy them is at Hartwick's on Jefferson, two blocks east of Wood- ward in Detroit." I told Chambers, nI've also got to learn something about wireless, too. What books can I get?" Chambers said, "Being so recently in the army, I haven't been in touch with the latest books but Mr. Edwards, who is in charge of the ninth wireless district, covering several states in this area, has offices in the Federal building downtown. He's a fine chap. Go see him and he can tell you what would be best for you to read." I phoned Mr. Edwards and made an appointment for later in the morning. He gave me a list of four books which he said could be obtained at Hartwicks, Then he advised, "The best way for you to learn something about wireless is to attend Cass Technical High School. It has a night school course for wireless operators. They train them for the Lake ships.'1 I went to Hartwick's, bought the necessary equipment - condensers, detectors, wiring, etc., and then went to Cass Technical High School.

That Friday night when I went home, I was enrolled in a class three nights a week, had four books, and a kraft bag filled with the equip- ment to make a wireless set, I missed most of the classes at Cass as a result of being out of town on the Lincoln research. - 13 -

Chambers didn't live far from where I did, so I took my purchases to his house and after some discussion, he laid out a board on which we could mount the receiving set. Within a few nights we had it completed. Mr. Ford took it home and seemed satisfied with results. He probably turned it on only once or twice since the only thing he could get was Morse code. I was still business manager of the Dearborn Publishing Company, doing historical research, and now I also was in the wireless business. In the year 1920, however, I spent more time on the Lincoln-Booth research than anything else. Several months later, Chambers and I built a transmitting set. We used a Forfl battery for power, and the first Ford transmitting set was in my bedroom. We started with the Morse code, communicating with various other amateurs who lived within a range of four or five miles of Dearborn. With the advent of radio phone, we built a Ford broadcasting station, ¥WI, and were on the air every Wednesday night from 7s00 to 9*00, with music and talks. Our most popular fifteen minute weekly program was a health talk prepared by some doctor on the staff of Henry Ford Hospital. Whenever a doctor couldn't be present to read his talk, I had to read it. These talks were later collected and published in a book. Ben Donaldson was one of the announcers and helped with organizing the programs. In addition to the broadcasting, we established a limited commercial system to communicate with the Ford lake boats, with the LrAnce and Iron Mountain, Michigan Ford plants and by short wave with the Ford rubber plantation in Brazil, Mr. Ford initially proposed connecting all Ford assembly plants, but we never got that far. A competent engineering staff was built up, consisting of Charlie Thomas, Bill Gassett and others. It was through their research that the first - Ill - radio airplane directional control system was worked out. The Ford Motor Company owned the patents for this but granted a free license arrangement to anybody who wanted to use it. Soon after we got the broadcasting station established near what is now the original engineering laboratory, Mr. Ford's yacht, the Siala, was returned to him by the government, who had borrowed it during the war. I think they used it as a submarine chaser. Mr. Ford sent me to New York to equip the boat with wireless and obtain a wireless operator to run it. I made several trips to New York in this connection. The first man I talked to was General Sarnoff, now head of RCA. He was just a salesman at that time. As I said, Mr. Ford was usually interested in new developments. He might have lunch with someone, and they would say something that would intrigue him. Later in the day, or the next couple of days, he might be thinking about it, and decide he wanted somebody to investigate it and give him a report. I seemed to be under his feet enough to get many of those jobs, though I wasn't the only one. He seemed to think those with some newspaper or advertising experience were good people to get the answers. He spent quite a little time around the Publishing Company offices. If he had an idea, he might drop in on Pipp, as long as Pipp was there, or Cameron, or me. The one he ran into first generally got the job, I believe it was in 1921 that Mr. Ford bought the D. T. & I rail- road. He wanted the D. T, & I because it was a great belt line railway. It crossed practically every important east and west line of the principal railroads and it was a strategic coal road. In 1920, there was a great coal shortage in Detroit and the Ford plants among many others had to shut down for lack of power, because of tie-ups in Toledo, which became a coal bottleneck. The D. T. & I. skirted Toledo, Mr -15-

It was decided to enlarge the yards, especially in Ohio, so that coal could be stored in cars to avoid the jams that were occurring during the winder* I got the job of buying a number of farms at South Charleston near Springfield, Ohio, which were to be used for yards. I not only bought the farms, but since they were not turned into yards, I had them on my hands to lease back to the farmers for several years. I also bought property to enlarge the yards in Lima, Ohio, Incidentally, it is interesting that Dale Roeder, chief Ford tractor engineer (19$6) and former president of S.A,E. came to the Ford Motor Company as a result of my purchase of part of the Roeder farm at Lima, Dale's father told me his son was just finishing automotive engineering at college and wondered if there would be an opportunity in that line with the Ford Motor Company. I met Dale at his father's place, and made an appointment with him to come to Dearborn to the engineering laboratories. I introduced him to several Ford engineers and he got a job. The top feature of the Independent was "Mr. Ford's Page," which was assigned to ¥. J. Cameron. It was handled this way. Mr. Ford would express his ideas on various subjects^ Mr. Cameron would make notes, and write the pagej then read the copy to Mr. Ford. Changes would be made; then it was ready for publication. So that really was Mr. Ford's page. It contained his ideas. Perhaps in one session with Mr. Ford, Mr. Cameron might accumulate material enough for half a dozen pages. We tried to keep three or four weeks in advance on the Ford pages so if anything happened to prevent the writing of a page, we would have a stock of them we could use. The circulation of the paper reached between 800,000 and 900,000 weekly. We reached the point where we could no longer print all of it at Dearborn, and we farmed out a lot of the printing to R. R. Donnelly in Chicago. Of course, when the new engineering laboratories were built, we bought high- speed presses containing some features that were Ford designed, and built especially for the Dearborn Publishing Company.

We obtained much of the Dearborn Indepdent's circulation by mailing letters to lists. We also asked the Ford dealers of the United States to obtain subscriptions. The original subscription price, as I remember, was

$1.00 a year, later raised to $l#£0. I've forgotten what the commission was to dealers at a dollar a year. When it became $1.50, the dealers received fifty cents. Some of them complained bitterly about having to be subscription agents, and many of them would make up a list of fifty or a hundred people and pay the bill. Ben Donaldson soon showed great ability in handling a variety of assignments. He became one of the most valued members of the staff. Toward the end of the Dearborn Independent history, he actually was associate editor. Later on, when Cameron was away a lot, Ben and I were responsible for the Ford Page. We were assisted by another member of the staff, Pierce Cummings, who is now deceased. I would have a session with Mr. Ford to get his ideasj then Pierce Cummings, Ben and I would write and edit the page for publication. Mr. Ford would come in, shake hands, sit down and say, MI have an idea," We would discuss it. I would ask questions to be sure I understood him; then as soon as possible, Ben, Pierce and I would have a session on how to treat the idea. It was written up and after two or three revisions, it was read to Mr. Ford. He preferred that letters, articles and documents be read to him rather than to read them himselfj then he could stop the reader at any particular point and discuss the idea or dictate some change* - 17

The fact that Mr. Ford usually asked an assistant to read important letters or summarize them started the rumor that he couldn't readt That statement appeared in articles about him. It was not true. It saved his time, he felt, to have somebody else digest a letter or an article and tell him the essential points. He said he and Mrs. Ford occasionally took alternate turns reading some favorite author, such as Dickens* Irve heard Mr. Ford read, and he read very well. I've heard him recite long poems he learned in the MeGuffey Readers, He recited them very accurately. One of the pictures that is carved indelibly in ray mind is in connection with Hamljji Garland, the author, and Henry Ford. Mr, Garland became much interested in Mr. Ford's collection of McGuffey Readers and antiques. He came to Dearborn to pay Mr. Ford a visit; I believe this was in 1°25» I had a large double desk in my office and one Saturday morning, Mr. Ford sat on one side and Mr. Garland on the other. I had a chair in the corner. Mr. Ford and Mr. Garland started quoting from the McGuffey Readers. One would quote a first line from some poem, then the other would give the second, and they tossed alternate lines back and forth until one of them missed. Then they would both laugh. It was a great game. The poets represented were usually Bryant, Whittier and Longfellow, etc. Longfellow was one of Mr. Ford's favorite poets. As tp 3. G. Liebold's connection with the Publishing Company, he assumed the title of General Manager. He had several titles. One was general business secretary to Mr. Ford, and actually for many years he was very power- ful in the Ford organization. His principal editorial interest in the Dearborn Independent was in the Jewish articles. It was generally understood that he was the instigator of the articles. - 18 -

Mr. Pipp was editor until April, 1920. He resigned at that time on account of the Jewish articles, he said, but considerable friction had developed between 1*. Pipp and Mr. Liebold. Both were quite stubborn individuals. Also, Mr. Pipp felt his long experience as editor of the Detroit News made him an authority who shouldn't be questioned. Mr. Liebold was active in the business end. I reported to him in that connection. During the life of the Publishing Company, my expense accounts were submitted to him and he arranged for the moneys to meet our deficits. Generally, any action Mr. Liebold took reflected Mr. Ford's attitude. He was careful about covering himself with Mr. Ford. He wouldn't necessarily say, MMr. Ford said thus and so," but it was generally assumed he didn't take many chances on running counter to Mr. Ford's opinion* Edsel Ford was always opposed to the Jewish articles in the Dearborn Independent. He told me several times he hoped the Dearborn Independent would soon be though with those. He didn't like them and was sorry his father had ever started them* Further, as to J. (Joe) J. O'Neill, who came to us from the New York World; after the Ford-Tribune trial, we changed the name of the Mt« Clemens News Bureau to the Independent News Bureau, Mr. Ford sent Mr. O'Neill with President Wilson on his campaign to sell the League of Nations to the country. The News Bureau released to the press stories covering that. I've forgotten what the specific reason was for Joe leaving our employ, He complained bitterly to me that the Bureau was not run according to traditional newspaper rules with which O'Neill was familiar. He was an excellent writer, but was a heavy drinker. In Mt. Clemens at the Tribune trial, Joe and Gene Fowler, the author, who then was with Hearst, got terrifically drunk} so drunk that they playfully beat each other over the head with beer bottles and Joe got a deep cut over one jsye. The next day Mr. Ford sent for him, but he played sick because he didn't want to appear looking as he did. A doctor patched him up, and he told Mr. Ford he had slipped and fallen on the curb. Whether Mr, Ford knew what happened, I don't know, but the newspaper crowd at №. Clemens, including some of our own, were pretty wild. I was always worried as to what the next day would bring forth. Mr. Ford was opposed to drinking. I don't know that it was true that he wouldn't hire a man who drank. It probably wasn't. Most of the members on the original staff of the Dearborn Independent drank. Mr. Ford would be greatly interested in some project for a while — then he would become interested in something else for a couple of weeks or a month, and he wouldn't take much interest in the first thing. During the time one would be working on one of these special interests he would see a lot of him. He might spend hours,over a period of several weeks, each day with someone like Cameron and then wouldn't show up in that man's office for weeks. There might be two or three months he would drop in my office almost daily and stay a few minutes to an hour. Then there might be a period of two months that I saw very little of him, except at lunch or meeting him in the hall, or some place like that. That kind of situation used to worry people in the Ford Motor Company. After he would spend a lot of time with a man, and suddenly not come to see him would for awhile, the mar/become terribly disturbed and wonder what he had done to incur Mr. Ford's ill will. That never bothered me. I realized he was spend- ing that time with somebody else on some proposal or idea in which he was especially interested. One never knew when Mr. Ford might pop in with some odd assignment. - 20 -

When in 1923 he decided to build a new engineering laboratory building at Dearborn, he said to me one day, "I want you to work with Mr. Kahn, the architect, and lay out the departments going in it. I wondered why I was the guy picked in this case, because I knew nothing about floor layouts or construction. I called Mr. Kahn, who laughed and explained that he had asked Mr. Ford to assign someone to the problem of getting the various departments properly placed and had requested someone who was well acquainted with the different heads of the departments; someone who could get them to agree on the amount of space needed and where it was to be located. Charlie Sorenson had an expert plant layout man on his staff. I borrowed him to help me. As to the modernity of construction at the engineering laboratory, that type of roof construction was one of the first models of its kind, if not the first. Before that time, sawtooth construction was considered the ideal type for overhead daylight. This was an entirely new type of truss construction in factory buildings. The building was not designed as an office building, but for experiemental shops and laboratories. And now back to the Dearborn Independent — other than the Ford Page, and the Jewish articles, Mr. Ford wasn't too much interested in the contents of the magazine. We bought articles from some of the leading English and American authors\ articles and poetry from writers such as Carl Sandburg, Robert Frost and Hugh Walpole, the British novelist. Mr. Ford was in favor of the League of Nations in the beginning, and gradually changed his mind. Miether that was the result of O'Neill's reports when he went on Wilson's campaign trip to sell the League, I don't know. During much of this time, I was on trips of my own - buying land, and doing other things. For weeks at a time, ray only connection with the Dearborn Publishing Company was merely signing the salary checks. I'd spend about one day a week there, and the balance of the time on other assignments. - 21 - y

I early came to the conclusion that what Mr. Ford wanted me to do, and what he was interested in, was the most important thing in ngr job. If anything had to suffer, it was the routine details of such things as the Publishing Company. The diverse assignments we of the business and editorial staffs often had meant many hours of night work in order also to keep tip with the essentials of the regular job we had. For instance, there was the movement to nominate Mr. Ford for the presidency. Ford clubs to promote this sprang up over the country. Mr. Ford wondered as to the extent to which people favored these clubs, and his possible candidacy for the presidency. I was assigned, among others, to make a survey, managed by Liebold, Naturally I couldn't be connected with Mr. Ford so I assumed the name, Fred Newman, We interviewed people connected with the Ford clubs, I spent several weeks doing that, usually reporting on Saturday forenoons. On one of these Saturday mornings, I said to Mr. Ford, "Do you really want to be President?" He startled me with, "I1d like to be down there for about six weeks to throw some monkey wrenches into the machinery." At that time, it was entirely possible that Mr. Ford might have become president, but it was fortunate for him that he didn't. With his temperament, he would have resigned in six months. Liebold, I think, wanted Henry Ford to be president. He was riding high and handsome at that time. From various things he said to me, I think if Mr. Ford had been elected, Liebold expected to run the country. He was terrifically ambitious. And, if Mr. Ford had been elected, Liebold practically would have been assistant president. - 22 -

Had Mr» Ford gone to Washington, and gotten involved with all the detailed problems of the presidency, such as signing his name a hundred times a day, he would have done it for a few days and then run out on the job. He couldn't have taken it. As far as I know, there was no attempt to promote the Ford-For-President Clubs by Mr. Ford. Liebold might have indirectly influenced some of the promoters. Mr. Ford wanted us to learn who and what kind of people were back of the clubs. Were they reputable and were they really honestly interested in Mr. Ford becoming President? I covered western Michigan. Those of us on this assignment reported singly and didn't discuss our findings at any length with each other*, The movement gradually died out. I don't think the club's founders thought of the movement in terms of a specific party. Mr, Ford was normally a Republican — had a Republican attitude toward politics, although he ran for the Senate on the Democratic ticket. Mr. Ford always held the presidential office in high esteem, no matter who was in power, or whether he liked the man or not. He felt when a man became head of the nation, he should be supported if he was any good. It didn't make much difference about his party. Mr. Ford was greatly flattered when President Moodrow Wilson asked him to run for the Senate. He liked and believed in Wilson. The President asked for his support, and he promised to give it to the fullest extent. There was always much happening around Mr. Ford, We jumped so rapidly from one thing to another that it was difficult to keep up with all we were doing. For instance, one day Mr. Ford and Cameron asked me to check on a movement in St. Louis to dam the Mississippi River above the city. A group in St. Louis sent a committee to Dearborn to sell Mr. Ford on building the dam and a Ford plant, which would use some of the water power* - 23 -

Mr. Ford had been turned down on his bid for Muscle Shoals. Mr. Ford sent me to St. Louis to find out who these people were, and what their real interest really was. I spent from ten days to two weeks and found the promotion for a dam across the Mississippi, as far as these people were concerned, was real estate. Some of the group had large holdings of land in the area of the proposed dam. Just a story to the effect that Henry Ford might buy, would be enough to start a land boom in the whole St. Louis area. When I returned with the information I had gathered, he lost interest. I was involved in the Muscle Shoals bids onty in a minor capacity. I was in on a few of the conferences with Mr. Ford, Iaebold and others. There were many drafts of the proposals and there were constant changes being made. It was desirable that they be kept confidential. It was a |ip0,000,000 deal and thousands of acres of land was involved. As it was, all sorts of land speculation took place just on the information that the Ford Motor Company was interested in the place. The proposals as they were changed were turned over to me; I had them put in tytpe and was careful that nothing leaked. Nothing was thrown in the waste basket. I personalty destroyed anything that could give the least indication of what we were doing. There were some Detroit outfits who bought property around Muscle Shoals on spec. Mr. Ford had three herosj Abraham Lincoln, William Holmes McGuffey, and Thomas A. Edison. He had a continuing interest in these three all his life. Lincoln, I think, appealed to Mr. Ford because he came from very humble beginnings, far more humble than Henry Fordj a man who, through his own efforts, made a place for himself in historyj a man who was simple, who had a strong feeling of responsibility toward his country and for the public welfare, all of which I am sure Mr. Ford had. William Holmes McGuffey: Mr. Ford credited McGuffey and the McGuffey's Readers for his own academic education, as far as it went. He felt that McGuffey had a great impact on education in this country. He would like to have had McGuffey Readers used in schools today. He believed in the methods of teaching that McGuffey had evolved in connection with his Readers. The first I had heard of the McGuffey interest was around 1921. One day at lunch, Mr. Ford was talking about the McGuffey Readers and I said, lrWhy, those Readers were written where I went to school* MeGuffey was a professor at Miami University, Oxford, Ohio, when he compiled the Readers, He taught the teachers how to use them. He was a professor of philosophy. He said1, "Do you think there's anything of McGuffey's they might have down there?" I said, "Well, I know one thing they have — the desk on which the McGuffey Readers were compiled." McGuffey didn't write the Readers. He made selections from the great writings of all times. He had an octagonal shaped revolving desk with eight drawers. When he read something he thought should go in the Readers, he would drop it into the proper drawer selected for the grade he thought appropriate. He accumulated his material in that way; really assembled it until he had what he wanted for each school grade. My instructions from Mr. Ford were, "You go down there and see if you can get it,1' Dean H. p. Minnich of the School of Education at Miami University was a friend of mine. I wouldn't have gotten through school without his help. I went to see Dean Minnich and told him of Mr. Ford's desire. He said, "Well, there'd be no way to give him the original desk. It belongs to the University and is one of our most valuable heirlooms. But I'll tell you what we will do* We'll have the classes in manual training of our McGuffey School make a reproduction." That reproduction is out in the Henry Ford museum. It was so faithfully reproduced that no difference can be detected between the original and the copy. Dean Minnich also told me that a tree McGuffey had planted on the campus had died,; been cut down and cut up into pieces, and that I could have a chunk of the tree for Mr. Ford« The piece was about a foot long and approximately 5 or 6 inches in width. Dean Minnich said they would be glad to make an ink well from this piece of wood for Mr. Ford, but maybe he would like to make it himself. I brought the piece back to Mr. Ford. Whatever happened to it, I don't know. If it was properly labeled, it's probably among his effects, or in the Museum. If it was not properly labeled, it probably was thrown out. I knew that Mr. Ford was collecting McGuffey Readers. The story as I heard it from him, was that he and Mrs. Ford were at home on Edison Avenue when school let out one afternoon, and the children from a school nearby went past the house shouting and laughing. Mrs. Ford said, "Hear the children gaily shoutlr. And he added, "Half past four and school is out," This, I believe, is a little verse from the McGuffey Second Reader. According to what jMr. Ford said, he and Mrs. Ford then started arguing about in which Reader the quotation had appeared. He looked around for some McGuffey Readers to settle the point, and gradually conceived the idea of collecting the Readers that he and Mrs. Ford had used in the country schools in Dearborn and Greenfield. - 26 -

Mr. Ford went personally to the second hand book stores in Detroit, looking for these Readers. This was before they moved to Dearborn so it must have been before 193l|, He built up quite an extensive collection. It's one of the three best collections of McGuffey Readers in the country, Miami University probably has the best. Mhether Mr. Ford had the second or third best, I couldn't say. A Miss Maude Blair, a school teacher in Detroit, had the third collection* She came to Dearborn a lot to discuss the readers with me, making suggestions so to how we might procure items we lacked. Throughout the Middle Vest, there were many McGuffey Societies. Dean Minnich was the secretary of the Federation of McGuffey Societies, and was active in promoting them. These were made up of older people who had studied the Readers and felt, as Mr. Ford did, that they had had a tremendous influence on American lives, I don't remember, but some time along in the later twenties, Mr. and Mrs. Ford went down to Miami University with me to attend one of the annual meetings of the McGuffey Societies. The Societies were particularly strong in Indiana, Illinois, Ohio and Kentucky. Later, in the thirties, the McGuffey Societies came to Dearborn for an annual meeting in Greenfield Village as the guests of Mr. and Mrs. Ford. They were with us for several days, Mr. and Mrs. Ford attended the meetings and we had a luncheon or two. It was quite1 a celebration. Mr. Ford was asked to speak, and said a few words — that he was glad they were all there, and hoped they would have a good time. The chairman then called on Mrs. Ford, and she said she sub- scribed to what Mr. Ford had said. As far as I know, Mr. Ford's longest public speech was something like 29 words. I've forgotten where that was made. - 27 -

The McGuffey Society still exists, but it's becoming a fast diminishing group. As I have said, Mr. Ford's third great hero was Thomas A. Edison. Mr. Ford first met Mr. Edison in 1896 when Mr. Ford was invited by Alex Dow, president of the Detroit Electric light Co., now the Detroit Edison, to attend a convention in Manhattan Beach, near New York, efnis was while Mr, Ford was superintendent of the Light Company's plant No. 1, Mr. Dow told Mr. Edison at this meeting, while they were discussing the future possibilities of the battery business for electric automobiles, "Here's a young man who's going to put us all out of business. He's experimenting with a gasoline engine in a horseless buggy." Mr. Edison said to Mr. Ford, M6©me over here, young man, I want to talk to you about it." He asked Mr» Ford some questions, and then said to him, "You keep right on working on that. Tou're on the right track. You'll have a power plant that won't be dependent on batteries." Mr. Ford always said that this was one of the great moments of his life; the inspiration of a great man like Mr, Edison saying that to him, made him even more determined to continue with his experimental work on gasoline engines. While we were planning the Ford exhibits in 1933 for a Century of Progress in Chicago, Mr. Ford told me he thought fairs in general were great educational institutions. He said that before 1893, he'd been reading in mechanical magazines about gasoline engine experiments in Europe and in this country, and that he went to the Chicago World's Fair of that year. Since his main interest was in machinery, the Machinery Building was the first place he headed for. - 28 -

Just outside this building, was a fire-fighting exhibit. It had a piece of hose that was carried up in the air and a big tank for water, and then a pump which was powered by a little two-cylinder Daimler gasoline engine. He said this naturally intrigued him. The operator would start this engine, throw it into gear with the pump, and that would pump water high enough to reach the second story of a house. Then the water would fall back into the tank and be used again. He asked all the questions he could think of, because he was impressed with the fact that here was an engine that was small enough to put in a buggy and had sufficient power to propel it, Mr. Ford came back to Detroit and immediately started to gather material to make an engine. He first wanted to prove to himself that he could build an engine that would run. So he got a piece of gas pipe, and other necessary things to make one* He didn't expect to drive anything with this engine. He just wanted to be sure that he understood the principles. He said that he spent less than a dollar for the material he bought. When he put this contraption together, he found he needed three hands to operate it. He clamped it to the kitchen sink (this was at his home on Bagley Avenue where the Michigan Theater now stands)j for ignition, he hooked it up to the kitchen electric light, but he had to have someone drop the gasoline: into it while he turned the fly-wheel. Mrs. Ford did this from an engine grease cup, a drop at a time. The engine ran for about half a minute before it stopped. Mr. Ford was no longer interested in that engine, as such. He'd proven to himself he could make a gasoline engine that would run, and he immediately started gathering material to build the engine for the first Ford car. Whether he put that first engine together in one night or not, he didn't say. It would be quite plausible. It could be done. - 29 -

I believe Mr. Ford saw Mr. Edison some time after he made this engine. The first time I saw Mr. Edison was in 1921 when he came to visit Mr. Ford. Mr. Sdison arrived^ Mr. Ford had him over at the plant for lunch. The dining room was small, so we ate in three shifts. I was supposed to eat on the 12:00 to 12:30 shift. I knew that Mr. Ford would come to lunch about 1:00 with Mr. Edison. One of the members of the editorial staff of the Dearborn Independent, a chap by the name of Roland, and I decided we'd be a little late for lunch so we'd get to see Mr. Sdison. Mr. Ford's dining room was separated from the small room where we ate by a large arch. Me could see those who ate in Mr. Ford's room and hear what they were saying. 14r. Ford held the entrance doorto the building open for Mr. Edison. He then followed Mr. Edison in. There were several others with them. I don't remember who they were. Mr. Ford always sat in the same place at the table and I knew Mr. Edison would be on one side or the other, so I was very nicely placed to watch the proceedings. Mr. Ford sat down with Mr. Edison on his right. Mr, Sdison turned to him and said, "Say, Henry, did you hear this one?" and proceeded to tell a dirty story 1 These were the first words of the great man, and Irm awfully- sorry I can't remember the story, but I was quite astonished and somewhat shocked to hear one as the first words of the great scientist. Later, I learned that Mr. Edison liked a dirty story if it made some point. Several years later Mr. Ford went to Cameron and asked, "Do know you#any good dirty stories? I'm going to see Mr, Edison. I want a couple to tell him." Mr. Cameron told me about this a few minutes after Mr. Ford left, - 30 -

Mr. Ford told very few dirty stories, but when he did, they had a very definite point and a very definite application to something that was being said. They were illustrative. He was very much like Mr. Lincoln was reported to be in,that way. He didn't tell a dirty story just to tell it; he told it to emphasize a point, Mr. Ford would turn guests over to me to bring to his table for lunch. On this particular day, I had such a guest and we arrived at the table ahead of Mr. Ford, Well, we'd been talking about the value of cooperation, and that things were not usually accomplished without cooperative effort. Mr. Ford came in and shook hands all around, as was his custom. In fact, if one met him four or five times in a day, he was likely to shake hands each time* As he sat dewn, he said, "What are you talking about?" I think it was Sorenson who answered, M0h, we were talking about cooperation." Mr. Ford chuckled, "Well, there's cooperation and cooperation. It reminds me of a story about an old chap we'll call Uncle Charlie, who wandered into a house of ill fame. He was sitting there with a young lady on his lap, when in walked his nephew, who looked at his uncle with great surprise, Uncle Charles flushed and got the young lady off his lap. He went over to his nephew and said, 'James, I suppose you're very surprised to see me here"1 "The nephew said, '¥ell, yes, Uncle Charlie, I am. It's bad enough for a young chap like me, who's out sowing his oats, but for an old married man like you, I am. surprised.'" "The uncle said, 'Well, James, I find the active cooperation of these young ladies far more satisfying than the passive acquiescence of your Aunt Jane'", - 31 -

Mr, FGrd was inclined to swear only when he was very angry. He swore very little, but if he got realty mad, he knew how to swear, all right. He knew the words* After Mr. Ford purchased the 3. T. & I. Railroad, he got the idea that the physicians and surgeons, of which there were 31 or 32 in the towns along the line of the railroad, needed training to take better care of railroad business* I was told to bring them all to Detroit for a weekrs series of clinics and discussions at the Henry Ford Hospital, Dr. Pratt of the hospital staff had been made Chief Surgeon of the Railroad* I reserved a floor at the Statler Hotel for the group and lived with them the week that they spent here. I also attended the meetings and clinics, Mr. Ford was often complaining about his lack of freedom in operating the railroad. He resented the orders of the Interstate Commerce Commission which interfered with his ideas. The morning we announced that the railroad had been sold to the Penn Corporation, a subsidiary of the Pennsylvania Railroad, newspapers called me for further information. Mr. Ford came into my office. I said, "Mr. Ford, the newspapers are asking why you wanted to sell the D. T. & I# He said, "Tell them that I found that you can own a railroad, but you can't run one. The Interstate Commerce Commission does that for you«H He got a lot of fun out of the D. T. & I. for awhile, because he thought he could take these 'two lines of rust' as the B. T. & I. was usually called, and make a railroad out of it. His efforts were to build it upj the road bed, heavier rails, and electrify the full length. The newspapers, during this period, were constantly making comments about our shined-up engines. It had been the habit of railroad people, especially on the D. T. &I., to do very little cleaning up, or shining up. Now, when a D. T. & I. train was standing on a siding waiting for another train from the opposite direction, instead of sitting in the cab, the engineer and fireman were out shining up the engine and the brass. That was something that wasn't done on other railroads. Of course, Mr. Ford was a great stickler for cleanliness around a plant, along the line of the railroad, or wherever he had property. He went to Boston one time, when the Boston Ford Branch was located in Cambridge. He drove up in front to call on the manager, and looked up at some of the upper windows. He found them dusty and dirty, and refused to enter the plant, leaving town. This story spread all over the country immediately. He did, I am sure, many of these things purposely, to impress the organization. From then on, the instructions to every plant manager were to keep his plant in such condition that if Mr. Ford decided to visit it, he'd come on in. . "When Mr. Ford visited a plant, he inspected the corners, especially the workshops. If they were dirty, the plant superintendent was told about it. Though Mr. Ford might not say much about it at the time, there was always someone with him who reported it back to headquarters, at the Rouge, to Sorenson or someone else, who1d get the responsible party on the telephone and give him a scorching. I became secretary-treasurer of the Edison Institute in 1935* While I was at the Chicago World1 s Fair (A century of progress - 193h) in charge of the Ford exposition, Edsel Ford talked to me about adding that responsibility. He said, "I know you can't spend all your time on it, but you have been interested in the Institute, the Museum and the Village, and you have some realization of what Father is trying to do there." - 33 -

Several days later, Henry Ford also spoke to me about it. As secretary-treasurer, I was responsible for the corporate records, had the usual duties of a treasurer, and the problem of raising income from selling materials from the Museum and the Village. Cnce a month, I sent the Ford Foundation an estimate of the deficit that would occur the subsequent month. It usually ranged from $100,000 to 1125,000, The job also involved being nominal director of the Museum, Village and the Institute, While I didn't have that title, I had the responsibilities. I found out very soon, of course, that the real director was Henry Ford, who wanted to carry out his own ideas. We planned our exhibits, their interpretation to express his wishes. I think it was before the twenties, that Henry Ford had something like this in mind. The first I knew that it would be definitely established in its present location, was around 1925 or 1926. It was at the time of Haialin Garland's visit to Dearborn, when as I described earlier he and Mr. Ford quoted poetry from the McGuffey Readers. After they got tired doing that, Mr. Ford said, "Mr. Garland, I want to show you where we're going to put our Museum and Village." We walked over the present location of the Museum and Village, and Mr. Ford said, we're going to do this, and we're going to do that. Before that it had been generally understood that he had planned on putting the Museum on the east side of the estate, in the general location of his birthplace. Why he changed his plans, I don't know. He may have wanted it nearer his office. The spot where the Museum now stands was often planted in corn. The Village field one jyear was in carrots. When I first went to the Publishing Company, Mr. Ford was in the process of trying to restore his birthplace just as it was when his mother died. That was when Henry Ford was 12 years of age. When he decided to do something about the restoration, he questioned his sister and his brothers as to their memories of what was in their house as children. One thing he wanted to discover was the design of the dishes they had when he was twelve. Whether it was his idea or someone elsefes, at least he put workmen on digging up the yard and making a good archeological job of sifting the soil. Everything that was found, such as nails and pieces of dishes, was brought to him, and he would recognize or show them to his brothers and sisters. They would agree that, yes, they remembered this. In that way, he was able to find the design of the dishes and have them reproduced. I don't remember who was in charge of this archeological work. Mr. Ford himself paid very close attention to it. One time they brought over to the office an old pair of rusty skates. Mr. Ford recognized these as his own when he was a boy,, He was greatly delighted. I doubt that he could have been given anything in the world that would have pleased him as much as those old, rusty skates. I remember workmen bringing him some big trays with old rusty materials they had dug up, and he'd go over every piece very carefully to determine what it had been. I have described already how his first interest in collecting the things that had surrounded him as a boy was in connection with the McGuffey Readers, In the effort to find the furniture they'd had in his birthplace, his interest in furniture increased. It gradually broadened until he was interested in much earlier periods. At first, the material he purchased was stored in a couple of the old Henry Ford & Son Tractor Plant buildings. They were wooden structures and a great fire hazard. Mr. Ford was building up his collection of antiques before he bought Wayside Inn and Botsford Tavern, These were examples of his broadened interest. His purchase of Wayside Inn was, of course, due to his interest in Longfellow1 s Tales of a ^syBJdeJLm, Longfellow was one of his favorite poets. Shortly after he bought the Inn, he sent me there to research the history of the Inn. On that, the first of several trips, I spent three weeks, mostly in Boston. Mr. Ford wanted to know all the history of Wayside Inn from the beginning, Mr. Ford acquired Wayside Inn and he started immediately to recon- struct it as it was when Lcngfellow and others around Boston used to go there. He eventually spent something like a quarter of a million dollars moving the main highway farther away from the Inn, so it wouldn't be shaken down by the vibration of heavy trucks going by. Mr. and Mrs. Ford often visited the Inn to personally oversee the restoration. In Dearborn, it became his habit, after a session of business, or a meeting where he apparently became somewhat disturbed, to go over to the Museum or the Village, apparently as an antidote for any worry or trouble that the business had caused him. We, who were around his office at Dearborn, felt it was a fine thing that he could go over there, and in five minutes apparently forget his business problems and be completely immersed, in something different. Chronologically, I would say that Mr. Ford's interest in Americana started with the McGuffey Readers, then came the birthplace, followed by Botsford Tavern, then Wayside Inn. It was all part of an expanding story. His interest in one thing led to some other phase. First, he attempted to show how people lived and worked when he was a boy. Eventually, he extended the interest back to what was really the beginning of the country. - 36 -

In 1918, as I recall, there were no antiques stored in the tractor plant. I do not remember seeing any. I know that around 1921, space was assigned to storage of antiques he bought at various times.

Mr. Ford started looking for old farm machinery around Dearborn and the circle kept widening right along. As he would be driving, he would always be looking over a farm. If he saw an old piece of machinery, such as an engine, or a plow, he immediately wanted to find out what it was. If he wanted it, he would either buy it or the chap owning it would have no use for it, and might give it to him.

In the early twenties, he began buying antiques through agents.

It naturally became spread about that Mr. Ford was interested in early machinery and early American furniture. Then agents began to call at

Dearbornj people like Israel Sack of New York. Mr. Ford used to buy some of those items. Sack made many calls on him in Dearborn over the years.

He was still calling there when I left the company in lQii2.

Mr. Ford met an old gentleman in the East by the name of Taylor, who had some sort of an antique business. I think he met Mr. Taylor in connection with Wayside Inn.

Eventually, he had Mr. Taylor come out to Dearborn, where he was employed by the i&iiscn Institute for a number of years.

There was also Charles Newton, who originally came into the organization in connection with the purchase of farms which Mr. Ford acquired west and southwest of Dearborn. He made many trips with Mr. Ford to look at these farms, and usually they would discover some old piece of machinery or some building Mr. Ford thought he wanted for the Village*

It might be well here to clarify one thing about the Edison Institute.

It was a corporation named in honor of Mr. Edison. The Museum and Greenfield - 37 -

Village are just names within the Edison Institute. Many people think they are separate institutions, the Museum and the Village. The Museum, until Mr. Ford's death at least, was referred to as the Ford Museum,, and the Village as Greenfield Village. He thought of these units as the Edison Institute Museum and the Edison Institute Greenfield Village. The Village was under construction before the Museum was started. I have forgotten when the first buildings were put in the Village. Among the first was the old Scotch Settlement School, which Mr. Ford had attended. Early in the twenties, Mr. Ford took over the Scotch Settlement School when it was located on Warren Avenue, and continued it as a school, I employed the first teacher and at that time was responsible for the school and its organization. Every few weeks I would visit the school and talk with the teacher about her needs and problems. I don't remember any conversation with Mr. Ford about the kind of teacher he wanted in the Scotch Settlement School, but I knew he wanted one who would continue teaching it as a country school; from the first grade on up to the high school age. As soon as the school was reconstructed in the Village, it was opened with different pupils than it had had on Warren Avenue. These new ones were selected from the west end of Dearborn. Mr* Ford felt there was a definite advantage in having all the grades in one room. He thought that younger pupils would learn from the older onesj that there was some value in the younger children listening to recitations by the older children. That was the way he remembered it as a school boy« - 38 -

He did not continue this as the Village school buildings increased. There wasn't enough room in the one school building to accomodate all the children he wanted in the Village. The younger grades up through the fourth were moved into the McGuffey School. It had been built with logs from a school in Pennsylvania near McGuffey's birthplace. I think McGuffey attended that school, or was supposed to. The McGuffey birthplace was pretty much intact, and was torn down, and the logs moved to the Village where it was reconstructed. The Scotch Settlement School students then were from the fifth grade up to the ninth. Later these were divided between it and the Village Hall. The Edison Institute %gh School was located in the Museum Building. It was not started until the Museum was opened and the McGuffey, Scotch Settlement and Town Hall schools were established. I did not participate directly in the expansion of the schools until after 193$, except while I had nominal charge of the Scotch Settlement School on Warren Avenue. I helped plan the dedication ceremony of the Edison Institute on October 21, 1929* After Mr. Ford suggested that we have a dedicatory party for Mr. Sdison and a number of Mr. Edison's friends, we found that the General Electric Company was also planning a big celebration, Light's Golden Jubilee, in which they expected Mr. Edison to participate. Fortunately, Mr. Edison had committed himself to Mr. Ford, to be present at the Edison Institute for our celebration. When the General Electric Company found this out, they were very much disturbed, for they felt their particular party would be a failure without Mr. Edison. I don't know whether Mr. Ford or the General Electric Company suggested it firstj but we finally agreed on a combined party at the Edison Institute. 39 -

We got together in Mr. Ford's officej Liebold, Mr. Ford's general business secretary; Mr. Ford's personal secretary - Frank Campsall, and all of us connected with Mr. Ford's office were organized into a committee.

Representatives of the General Electric Company also came out frequently and we more or less planned the affair together.

Mr. Edison knew the celebration was to take place, but I don't think he participated in any of the planning except to promise that he and

Mrs. Edison would come.

The suggestion came early that President and Mrs, Hoover be invited. That was arranged.

One of the great problems was agreeing on the list of people to be invited. There were about three hundred who finally came. They were the elite of the United States, with some foreign representation, like Madame

Curie and other notables.

Mr. Ford did not make up the guest list himself. It was gone over with him, and he suggested some names, though I can't remember now just who.

We felt it was pretty much his party; as far as General Electric was concerned, we decided who should be invited. They asked, of course, that certain people be invited. I don't remember that anyone they wanted us to invite was left off the list.

The work necessary and the preparation for the party was, of course tremendous. All was feverish activity for weeks. I spent quite a few nights — even until three or four o'clock in the morning, working on lists and other problems involved in planning the affair.

A great surprise to Mr. Edison when he came was seeing the complete- ness of restoration of his Menlo Park, New Jersey, buildings in the Village.

Mr. Ford had been in touch with him in connection with acquiring the buildings - 1*0 -

and the various, items that were to go in them. So it naturally couldn't have been a total surprise in view of the conversations he and Mr. Ford had had. One item I know Mr. Sdison was not familiar with until he came was that Mr. Ford had brought seven coal car loads of the soil that surrounded ths original Menlo Park Laboratories,

Mr. Edison, when he first saw the completed structures, before he entered any of the buildings, kicked the soil and said, "Well, I111 be damned. Henry even brought that red New Jersey clay."

We had some trouble in importing the soil. We had to get permits from the Department of Agriculture. I didn't have anything to do directly with the soil problems.

It was in 1933 that the Museum was opened to the public. The Village was open before the Museum. While the Village wasn't completed, there was enough finished to make it of interest to the general public.

Mr. Ford had an architect, who was responsible for the restoration of the buildings. As soon as Mr. Ford decided he wanted to move some building from some other location to the Village, he took this man along to inspect it.

He discussed with him just where it should be placed in the Village, how it should be moved,: and all the problems involved in its reconstruction.

The details of practically everything were taken up with Mr. Ford.

It was learned that if something were done in the Village or the Museum that he

didn't like, it would soon have to be done over again. It was much easier to

have a complete understanding with him originally, than to tear something down and re-do it, though that did occur in some instances*

For example, there was some question about the floor in the Clinton

Inn dance hall -a 'spring-board' floor - that had to be re-done. -Ill -

I had a closer connection with the Wright Brothers buildings than other Village structures. I made the origional contact with Mr. Wright, and handled that deal all the way through. Mr, Ford, Edsel, the architect and I visited the Wright shop and house in Dayton, Ohio, We were accompanied . by Orville Wright. We discussed what should be done, took pictures, made measurements, sketches, and notes. In connection with some buildings, we had to establish in the beginning what the original building looked like. Over the years, additions and changes had been made in partitions or rooms. It was Mr. Ford's idea to restore such a building to its original condition. With the Wright buildings, the important thing was to restore the house exactly as it was when Orville and Wilbur Wright lived there with their sister, Catherine. That necessitated a change in the stairway as we found it. Other people had been living in it for a great many years and there had been changes normally made in a house over the years. It was standard practice for Mr. Ford to go along to see the buildings that were to be moved to Greenfield Village. The chances were that iie would follow through on all the details. He went many times to Clinton, Michigan to see the Clinton Inn before we acquired it. It was practically a wreck, occupied by an old lady who owned it, and who was getting rather decrepit. She lived in a couple of the rooms, and the rest of the Inn was getting ready to fall down. Frank Canrpsall (Mr. Ford's personal secretary) and I were told to go out and buy the place. The rooms the old lady lived in were leaking badly, and she had them filled up with magazines and other things she had accumulated over;the years. We finally made the deal with her. When we - JU2 - left, I turned to Frank Campsall and said, "I'm glad to get out of the place. I was afraid it might fall down while we were in it." Henry Ford was always trying to awaken Edsel's interest in what he was doing in the Museum and Village. Before I was Secretary-Treasurer, Sdsel Ford was Secretary-Treasurer, and Mrs. Henry Ford was Vice President. Henry Ford was President. When I became Secretary-Treasurer, Mr. Ford continued as President and Edsel Ford became Vice-President, Mrs. Ford was actively interested in the project. Mr. Ford was always bringing her over while things were being done, wanting her to be familiar with them. I believe she accompanied him on every trip he made to Wayside Inn. She was not in on the Wright buildings until they were moved to the Village and completely reconstructed. I don't think any of the buildings in the Village could be con- sidered exclusively hers. I think the original ideas concerning the re- quirements, and locations of the buildings, were proposed by Mr. Ford. She apparently concurred. I never heard of any disagreement between Mr, and Mrs« Ford about what was done in the Village. As to the Cotswold Cottage: Mr. Ford said one of the reasons he wanted the Cottage was because it was from the Cotswold section of England, from which many people had come to the United States; that they brought ideas of building and incorporated them in early buildings in New England* He felt:it was from such buildings that New England architectural ideas' had come# He was interested in what was being done at Williamsburg, and I'm quite sure he paid at least one visit down there. He felt, however -U3 -

that his conception of a Village was better, Williamsburg was the restora- tion of a town of one particular period, and Mr. Ford often expressed him- self as wanting a village that would be a growing thing, from the early days up to the present. He would express the real history of a village by covering all periods. No one ever criticized the lack of unity in the pillage to Mr, Ford himself, that I know. The differences between Williamsburg and Greenfield Village were discussed in his presence; and as I just said, he thought the Williarasburg idea was all right for what they wanted to do, but that wasn't what he wanted. He didn't think it expressed the growth of typical American life in Colonial times up to the present. Mr. Ford was aware of the statement that was often made — "Here is the greatest living industrialist in the manufacture of the most modern means of transportation, who1s going back and erecting a monument to the period of the horse and buggy days." That was not inconsistent with what he was trying to do. He felt that modern American industry had really grown out of the past, and we could only see the place from which we came by being able to show how things in the past were done, I don't think any pointing out of paradoxes, or books like Leonard's The Tragedy of Henry Ford worried him the least bit. I always felt that Henry Ford always believed so thoroughly in what he was trying to do, that he wasn't disturbed too much by other people's ideas of what he should do. He had a very broad idea of his objectives, and he had been criticized so much for his ideas, that a little criticism didn't bother him. As to the design of the Museum building, Bob Derrick, of Derrick and Gamber, the architects, suggested that an ideal building would be a f \ -hh - reproduction of Independence Hall, old Congress Hall and the aid Supreme Court Chambers in Philadelphia. The first I heard about it, Mr. Ford and Edsel were discussing it. Father and son felt it was a good idea, since the Museum then would be a symbol of the beginning of the United States as a nation. And I heard no objections from anybody about reproducing the original buildings. Edsel Ford was greatly interested in the Detroit Institute of Arts. He was president of the Detroit Arts Commission. He didn't have a lot of time to devote to the Edison Institute, Museum and Village. His interest in it went in cycles* His father would have some project at the Village or Museum on which he would want Edsel to help. He would say to me, nI wish you' d try to get Msel interested in this." I would ask Edsel at lunch to come to the Museum for a short time in the afternoon. Edsel's ideas, as a result of his interest in and knowledge of museums, sometimes didn't agree with his father's. There were changes i£8Qil$©a$^5&e»43sa&iB6B' that Edsel would suggest that his father wouldn' t agree to. Eventually it would come to the point that Edsel would say to me, "Well, I guess we can't do anything about that one.n Then his interest would usually wane for a period until something new would come up and we would go through the same cycle. During the time I was Secretary-Treasurer, Dr. Karl Guthe, in charge of the University of Michigan museums, had students who wanted to do more graduate work in museum techniques. Dr. Guthe proposed that we fellowships arrange for graduat®.wyP/s in the University in the amount of a thousand dollars a year each. These graduate students would then work at the Edison Institute as assistants at no cost to us other than the fellowships and do the research in the Museum for their theses* I liked the ideaj we would hare people who were interested in doing something in the Museum, and it would give us a research staff, which we badly needed* I discussed it with Edsel Ford, who thought it was an excellent idea, but said of course, "¥e would have to discuss it with Father." He did and I also talked to Mr. Ford about it, but we never got permission to go ahead. While we didn't get a flat nNoM, we never got an answer favorable enough from Henry Ford to feel safe in going ahead. Edsel Ford often told me that the Museum and Village needed a competent, well-trained research staff to authenticate and obtain complete histories of the items in it. Sometimes these items came in without much background, and the type of research that usually goes on in well-run museums, was lacking. Edsel Ford was aware of that, because of the careful research he observed at the Detroit Institute of Arts, and their efforts always to authenticate a picture, piece of sculpture, or other art object. Much research was done before the Arts Commission would even consider the purchase of an object. ?ery little was ever done by us. We were lucky that so many good and authentic objects were acquired under the circumstances, I think Henry Fordrs opposition to bringing students from the 1 University came from his desire to direct the Institute along the lines that he had envisioned, and he was afraid of bringing in experts whose opinions might run counter to his.

Edsel Ford often told me that the work of research and authentica- tion should be done before any object was displayed. With our limited staff this could not be done* He also felt we had too many items in some categories, such as engines. He felt that in view of the limitations of space, only major development should be displayed. When I refer to the Edison Institute or Institute, I mean Greenfield Village, the Museum and the Schools. There wasn't a systematic program of Public Relations for the Institute while I was Secretary-Treasurer and no public relations staff, though we were constantly trying to work out methods of giving the public more information about it and its collections. We made a definite effort to train the staff and guides so they would be better able to present the exhibits in an interesting way. There was probably a greater curiosity on the part of most visitors than in the average museum due to widespread interest in Henry Ford# That was expressed by the general public referring to the Museum as the Ford Museum, rather than as the Edison Institute Museum, The public actually named it. The place was a long way from any state of completion. Henry Ford never objected to publicity in connection with the Institute. Edsel Ford's general attitude, however, was that we should not go toG far in promotion until the thing had further ciystalized* In 19U0, the annual meeting of The American Society of Museums met in Detroit* The Detroit Institute of Arts, the Edison Institute, the Cranbrook Museums, and the University of Michigan were all co-hosts• We met one day at the Edison Institute, and there were about 300 people present from all over the United States, mostly directors and assistant directors of museums* We also had meetings at the Detroit Institute of Arts, at Cranbrook, and at the University of Michigan. I gave a talk in the auditorium of the Museum building about our institutions, describing what we had done and what we hoped to do. I went over the speech with Mr. Ford in advance and also with Edsel. Henry Ford was present when I gave it. The convention ended with a tea given at Mr. and Mrs. Edsel Ford's home at Gaulker Point, I can't remember that Henry Ford was ever displeased that the Schools, Museum and Village were not self-supporting* Most of the cost was for things he wanted done. The problem in anticipating our future

expenses, was to learn what he had decided ont and thus estimate what the cost would be for the coming month. Recurring expenses included the upkeep of the schools, the Museum, the maintenance staff and the operating staff as it stood at that time. Those didn't change greatly from month to month. Before I was officially connected with the Museum, the architects had complained to me about their inability to lay it out intelligently, because they never could find out what Mr. Ford intended to do with some parts of it. Naturally they went out and studied layouts in other museums* As a result, the upper floors in our Museum were laid out to some extent from what they had learned, principally in natural history museums. We had a whole floor of rooms made up of offices with connecting laboratories. In each of these laboratory rooms was a sink and preparation tables for work that would be done in a natural history museum. Soon after I became Secretary-Treasurer, Edsel Jtodand I went over the place, and we proposed that partitions be torn out, sinks removed to make a large room for a piano and other musical instrument exhibits* In th$ Museum, Henry Ford's primary interest was in engines and transportation} carriages, buggies, automobiles, etc. His interest probably - U8 -

was greatest in the automobile collection. However, that does not indicate that he was not interested in the furniture, household gadgets, etc. He was, because he wanted to show how people lived. He was greatly interestg3,of course, in anything pertaining to Thomas A. Edison, Abraham Lincoln, or William Holmes McGuffey. We had some items of early American silver before we obtained the Hearst Collection, but when we proposed acquiring that Collection, he wanted it, and agreed to buy it, but he didn't evince any great amount of interest in it. The Collection fitted in with his desire to show craftsmanship and what people used and how they lived. He wasn't interested in an object just because it was beautiful. One of our sources of early American silver was Tiffany's, Edsel Ford would bring over a letter to me. It would be from Tiffany's, saying they had, for example, porringers of such and such a date. I would check to see what we had as examples of items offered. I don't believe Henry Ford was even consulted about whether we should purchase the item* I remember one collection of 10 or 12 porringers that were offered /Edsel by Tiffany's, We bought the whole lot. In this connection, Ford said, "One thing we can be sure of. If Tiffany's say that an article is such and such, we can be sure that enough research has been done to be sure it is authentic," Edsel Ford was very much interested in paintings. For about two years he usually spent Saturday forenoons with John Carroll, a modernest Detroit painter, from whom he took lessons. Edselipainted a number of pictures. I was always curious about them, because Edsel's attitude toward painting was traditional rather than modern. In the summer of 1939,. Edsel Ford said, "I want you to spend this coming winter in Europe visiting museumsj specially industrial museums such - k9 - as the Deutsches Museum in Munich. Become thoroughly familiar with what they have and how they present it." He expected me to come back with plans and ideas for the ijnprovement of our Museum and Village* The second World War made that impossible.

Father and son differed a lot in their respective approaches to life and its problems, Edsel Ford believed in organization! in team work. With him, it was the team operation, and how the individual fitted into the team. Henry Ford was no an organization man. He wanted tooall all the signals and carry the ball, Msel Ford was inclined to make a detailed survey study, and gather all the facts before making a decision. Henry Ford usually made his decisions on very few facts. He was too impatient to listen long enough to get all the facts, Edsel Ford had great patience. He would listen carefully. He wanted to be sure he understood a situation, and he also wanted the person presenting the facts to make a recommendation — what he thought of the facts he'd gathered. He would then consider things on that basis. Henry ;Ford usually would listen to a presentation of facts for the first few minutes, and then on the basis of a hunch, would come to a decision. He always was very impatient of "getting on' with whatever you might decide to do. Once, I remember, he said to me, "Sometimes the straightest route between two points can be the longest one, because you spend all your time deciding on the! best way to go. You could be there by taking a roundabout way instead of ftrying to find out which was the straightest route.n With I^dsel Ford, if you didn't make a recommendation based on the information you were giving him, after presenting the facts as you saw them, he would ask, "Haven't you told me only one side of the story? What's the other side?" Henry Ford never did that. - 50 -

Ford I don't think Henry had respect for Edsel*s more logical way of looking at things. He thought that way wasted too much time. And Henry Ford always was apt to jump to a conclusion on the basis of too little information. We used to say around Dearborn that if Henry Ford saw three blackbirds in the morning, all birds were black that day. Sdsel was an easier man to work for than his father because you felt assured, even if he turned you down completely on your recommendation that you1d had a complete hearing. With Henry Ford, you never did. The general rule was to tell him what you believed in first, and if you told him any objections to that — well, you didn't. Before you'd presented your one side of the story, he'd come to a conclusion. It might be for or against what you wanted to do, but at least he'd come to a conclusion* If you'd try to say, "Well, here are some more facts connection with this.....," he wouldn't listen. It was almost Impossible to keep Henry Ford in a meeting for more than 15 minutes. If it was dragging or took longer than he thought it should, he would get up and walk out, saying, "I'll be back after while," or, "I'll be back when you get through talking about this." Sdsel Ford was very patientj his father was very impatient* Edsel also was very considerate. Sdsel Ford was president of the Detroit University School in Grosse Pointe, which he had attended. There was also the Grosse Pointe Country Day School, of which Dr. John Mateer of the Henry Ford Hospital was president* Edsel and Dr. Mateer agreed the headmaster of the Detroit University School was not a successful administrator, though he was a fine teacher* I was called in by Edsel Ford to help in the detailed work of consolidation and reorganization. The problem of telling him that he would not be the headmaster of the combination came up, and how to do it* _ 51 -

Edsel Ford said rather pointedly, "I'll take care of that job, and tell him why. He has a right to know why, but I'll do it myself. I'll do my own dirty work," Rarely, during the period I was associated with Henry Ford would he personally do anything disagreeable. It was always delegated to some- body else. The rule was, and you knew it very well, that you did not bring Mr. Ford into the picture* You did it ostensibly on your own responsibility. And if the other fellow was smart, and most of them were, he knew where the decision had originated. However, he couldn't very well pin it on Mr. Ford directly. 3dsel Ford would stand up to his full responsibilities, where Henry Ford wouldn't always do that. I think he had a great distaste of having a row with somebody, and just avoided doing his own dirty work —> though I don't mean by 'dirty work' that the thing done wasn't necessarily justified, Henry Ford just didn't like to face personal unpleasantness unless he was very angry. Here is one instance where he didn1t quite do it directly, but was very angry. He came into uy office one morning* Someone had complained about something done by the chief engineer of our radio system, Ed Chambers* Henry Ford said to me, "Come with me, I'll show you how to do things," This was one of the times I didn't escape when he was in a bad humor* I walked with him out to John Sorenson, who was in charge of the mechanical end of the Engineering laboratories. He said to Sorenson, "Get rid of this man Chambers, Get him out of here at once," This Sorenson was no relation to Charlie Sorenson. As I later got the facts from John Sorenson, the firing of Chambers was not justified. John tried to say something in Chambers' favor, but Mr, Ford cut him off short and said, "I told you to get rid of him**' He turned around to me and said, "Now we've got him out of here*11 Then he walked off, Edsel Ford would never have done anything of that kind. Henry Ford was, unfortunately influenced by the first person who got to him with a story, providing he liked that person, or had any confidence in him at all* So there was usually an effort on the part of people to run to him with stories about somebody else. He made no effort to get both sides of the story. That sort of thing disturbed Edsel very much. It was also very disturbing to Edsel to have talked over a policy with his father, be given to understand that some action was agreeable to his father, and then later to find that his father had told Sorenson, Bennett, or somebody else to stop it. Maybe it would be a program already started, and there1d be a lot of money invested in it* (I'm talking about the Ford Motor Compa-ny now, not the Edison Institute.) When those things happened,"Sdsel's face would tighten up and he would say, "¥ell, I thought Father understood this. Apparently somebody's talked to him about it who doesn't agree with what we are doing. Well, I guess there isn't anything we can do about it at the present timej after all, it's father's business. It was a terribly difficult position to be in, and it put him in the middle in many situations. For instance, when I was made advertising manager of the Ford Motor Company, his father may have told him about it, but there was no indication on Edsel's part that he knew before I told him that I was to be his new advertising manager. He merely answered, "See Bill Ityan, the sales manager, under whom the Advertising Department has operated." 3^ran said, "It's news to me.M Henry Ford was constantly trying to train Edsel Ford in the way he thought the responsibilities of Edsel' s job should be discharged* He felt that Edsel had to be harsher, act faster and be turned into a personality something like Sorenson's, Mr, Ford didn't think that Edsel was tough enough. There was also this opinion, often expressed among those of us who were there, that Henry Ford would never give up the actual direction of the institution as long as he lived. He might intend to; there were many times w.herfc: he would say, "Well, you talk that over with Edsel, and do whatever he says. I'm going to turn more of these responsibilities over to him. He's got to run this company." For a period of two or three months, you would talk everything over with Edsel. Suddenly you would find the old man back in the harness, reversing Edsel's decisions about things. So I was always very careful to cover whatever I was doing, with the old manj even though Sdsel had expressed his opinion. I always let Mr. Ford know what I was doing. I came into contact with Edsel only occasionally in the early twenties. When I became advertising manager in 1927, I reported to Edsel and came into almost daily contact with him. Before that, I reported either directly to Henry Ford, or to Liebold. After I became advertising manager, the department was moved to the Engineering Laboratories, from about April, 1927 until the Administration Building at the Rouge was finished; then we transferred it over there. From then on, I had contact with Edsel Ford more often than I did with Henry Ford. Other executives also used to by-pass Edsel, though Sorenson actually always reported to Henry Ford but usually told Edsel about decisions his father might make. As time went on, toward the end of Edsel Ford's life, the politi- cal situation came to the point where there were certainly great efforts led by Harry Bennett to fence Sdsel in. Sdsel Ford knew this was happening. He knew it in many instances, because one of the reasons Jack Crawford and I got on Bennett's black book was through giving Sdsel information he asked for about certain situations. He would ask me, 'Would you find out about so-and-so?" I always ran into opposition. The people who didn't come in contact directly with Henry Ford, had an attitude of, "Well, we've got to be very careful about what information we give you." It was some trouble sometimes, getting anything. Beyond a certain point, it was not in Sdsel's nature, or make-up, to have a showdown with his father. He told me one time, "Well, after all — my father built this business. It's his business." We often discussed around the company what might happen if Sdsel did come to the point of actually demanding a show-down; on the basis that either such-and-such things were going to be carried out, or he was going to quit. There was a difference of opinion as to what might happen, I don't know. I think Henry Ford was aware that this was uncomfortable for Sdsel in many instances, but it was part of the hardening processj he felt you only could harden people by opposition. Henry Ford had certain philosophies that affected his attitude. I don't know that I can quote this exactly, but it was written and placed under the glass on the side of Frank Campsall's double desk where Mr. Ford usually sat. It was to the effect thatj nHe is your friend who makes you do what you don't want to do, rather than what you want to do." We used to say, "Don't let the boss know what you want to do." Mr. Ford's effort to toughen Edsel Ford did not work. Edsel's nature was as definite, his character as definite as his father's, but only in a different way. I'm expressing a summation of opinion, not merely my own. He was reasonable and firm in his decisions and was nearer in tune with his times as an executive than his father. Those of us who were at all sympathetic toward Idsel, felt that he was a fine executive, and well capable of running the Ford Motor Company and being its president. In 1939 or 19l|0, an arrangement had been made for the Ford Motor Company to manufacture Rolls Royce airplane engines* I don't know whether contracts had been signed, but at least Sorenson and Sdsel had agreed to make such a contract. There had been a meeting of ininds between Rolls Royce, the British and our Government that the Ford Motor Company would manufacture these Rolls Royce engines both for the British and us. The New York Times carried a story one morning to the effect that Henry Ford said he would not manufacture these Rolls Royce engines, because part of them would be turned over to the British. He would manufacture: them only for the use of the United States Government. (This was before we got into the war.) Edsel Ford came into m;/- office at the New York World's Fair about 10 o'clock, and I showed him the story. It was a total surprise to him. He said, "Well, I can't understand Father's statement of this. We've talked it over. Sorenson and I have both talked it over with him. He has never expressed any such attitude to me. It's very embarrassing to have this happen at this time, after a number of promises have been made." He called his father, and I got up to leave the room as I thought he would prefer to be alone. He motioned me to return, and said, "You stay here. I want you to stay here with me." He had a long discussion with his father. Then he phoned other people. He called somebody in the Government. It was quite evident he was greatly disturbed. He had come in looking quite happy, but his face soon became drawn. In his conversation with his father, he tried to reason with him, saying, "We've made commitments, Father, on the basis of what we understood you wanted to do. Me wouldn't have agreed to do these things if you hadn't expressed yourself in favor. How for us to reverse ourselves places us in a very embarrassing situation. ... And it certainly places me in a horrible situation with the people to whom I've made promises." However, his father had made up his mind, and that was that. I don't know whether Mr. Ford argued back; I could only hear Edsel's side of it. Edsel's tone of voice with his father wasn't angry. He sounded more sorrowful than angry, that his father had placed him, personally, in such a predicament. Sdsel certainly was very unhappy about it* Henry Ford's real reason for some action was often masked. I was later told by some of our engineers that Henry Ford objected because he couldn't re-design the Rolls Royce engine to suit himself. He thought it had too many protruding nuts. He thought he could design a much better engine than that; a more modern engine that would deliver greater horsepower, Packard Motor Company took over the production of the Rolls. Ford engineers designed an 18 cyclinder engine about the size of the Rolls Royce to give 1800 horsepower. While that was never used in aircraft, it was cut down later to 8 cylinders, and became the number one tank engine in the second World War; the best tank engine made at that time. Henry Ford had been known to be opposed in the past to supplying military equipment to other countries. Some of our engineers, however, told me that in the matter of the Rolls Rqyce engines, he had just taken the first excuse he could think of because he was stopped from changing it.

It was not Edsel who convinced his father the Model-T had to go, back in the days of the change-over to the Model-A. I don't know where the principal influence came from, but it became apparent to the Engineer- ing and Sales Departments, that we were slipping on the Model-T in 1926.

Chevrolet was gradually taking our business. Their sales were increasing, ours decreasing, Mr. Ford was shown the registration figures published by R. L. Polk and Company. He told me and I am sure Edsel and others that these figures were just rigged upj that R. L. Polk & Company was influenced by General Motors. He wouldn't believe the registration figures. Bdsel and the Sales Departirient heads did, however, but they couldn't get Mr.

Ford to act. He wouldn't move. I understand that finally Ernest Kanzler, who was Sdsel' s brother-in-law, and at that time vice-president of the company, said that somebody had to make Henry Ford listen to facts*

Sorenson completely backed down. He knew Henry Ford's attitude sufficiently, so that he wasn't going to 'beard the lion'• Finally, according to the stories, Kanzler did, and from then on, Mr. Ford was completely off Kanzler.

The same spring, Edsel Ford had made all his plans for a trip to

Europe with Mrs. Ford and Valentiner, director of the Detroit Institute of

Arts. They were to spend six weeks visiting museums. When Sdsel Ford got in the middle of the ocean, Kanzler was fired as vice-president. About the same time, Henry Ford started engineers on designing a new car. Whether Kanzler had gotten deeper under his hide than he would admit, or whether it was a combination of the various things others had told him, I don't know. He had apparently decided something had to be done, and from that came the second Model-A of 1927. Mr. Ford discounted the problem in terms of time. As a consequence, the company really lost its dominent position in the automobile field and was never able to regain it more than two or three times in the years following. As to the 7-8 engine, that was designedabafe in the old Edison Laboratorybrought up to Greenfield Village from Florida (It had been near Edison's home in Fort Meyer, Florida), Mr. Ford segregated some engineers in that building. He kept them away from the engineering building. Very few knew what was going on. This was in 1930 or 1931* On various occasions when I asked Msel Ford to appear at some meeting, a celebration for instance, or to pose for pictures, he would answer, "See if you can't get Father to do that. He likes that sort of thingj I don't." However, when he did take pert in something, he always did it very gracefully. I remember that he told me one time, "I don't want any more of my pictures in the newspapers or magazines than I can help. I don't want to be in the position that father's in where I can't go down the street in any city without being recognized and set upon by autograph hunters and people trying to sell me something." On several occasions, he remarked, "I'm in just the same position that you are. I work for this institution, and when I put in my forty hours a week, I like to consider that I have the other time for things in which I am personally interested," In the thirties, I would say that Edsel Ford's authority increased over what it had been in the twenties. He had gotten older and had more experience. It's hard to put it into terms of comparison, but when he was quite young when he became president in 1919 and no one thought of Sdsel as the head of the institution. Later, when for periods his father decided to rturn things over to Edsel1 ...... 'take things up with Edsel and do whatever he said'... most of the brass would take things up with Sdsel. The smart ones also took things up with the old man, saying, ttI discussed this with Edsel, and he thought it was a good idea, but I wanted to be sure that you understood it and also thought it was a good idea," Edsel and I talked about the company's labor policies once at the New York World's Fair, He told me he thought we were wrong in our labor policies? that we should no longer fight the Union; that it was costing us more money than it would if we would let the Union into the shop and deal with them like other companies. Sdsel didn't have his father's attitude of benevolent paternalism. He never tried to dictate the private lives of employees. He also told me several times that we would be far better off with a half-million stockholders and a board of directors with various types of backgrounds and interests. He said if we had a half million stock- holders, we would have a half-million people who were interested in promoting our products, because it would mean something additional to them." His father couldn't have gotten along with such an arrangement. If Henry Ford was influenced by John Dewey's theories of education in the Edison Institute schools, I don't think he was aware of it. I doubt that he even knew who John Dewey was. He might have been influenced by someone who may have been influenced by Dewey. - 60 -

Henry Ford ran the schools on the theory that the type of education that children got back in his day, based on a good knowledge of reading, writing and arithmetic, was a far better education than some of the modern ideas and methods. He felt a return to the old methods would be beneficial in the educational process. He visited the classrooms quite often. In the 193Oies, he really knew far more about what was going on in the classrooms in the Village than what was happening in the Ford Motor Company. He was constantly in touch with Benjamin Iiovett, who was active in the schools, and with the principals, etc. To indicate the extent to which he determined the curriculum; no languages fcther than English were taught in the iSdison Institute High School. This was of considerable concern to the parents because it meant many of the students had to take a year of schooling after they were graduated in order to meet full College entrance requirements. He felt his schools were preparing the children for life, rather than for college. He wasn't too much interested in colleges and college life. That was one of the reasons Edsel Ford didn't go on to college. Kis father felt that the best training Edsel needed for his future responsibilities was in the Ford Motor Company. Mr. Ford thought many young people were ruined in the colleges. It was considered better not to talk about having gone to college. When I told Mr. Ford I had gone to college where McGuffey had prepared his Readers, I was a little fear- ful that I had made a mistake. However, his attention, as far as I could see, was so centered on acquiring MeGuffey material, it didn't mean any- go to thing to him. When he went down to Oxford, he didn't visit Miami University. He went to be present at the meetings of the McGuffey - 61 -

Societies.

While Mr. Ford had little interest in cultural subjects^ he had no objection to American or English literature as such. He, himself, had much of that in the McGuffey Headers. His great interest in Dickens, showed that he felt there was something to be gained by reading good authors. How much interest he had in new authors, I donrt know. He never talked about current novels or poetry. lie had a great interest in

Whittier, Longfellow, Stephen Foster, whose music and songs he liked.

"When the Village Schools were opened, the pupils (Mr. Ford called them students) were more or less picked arbitrarily; the children of families he knew. He really made the selection

People would make application to the school, to Ben Lovett primarily, and then Lovett would go over this list with Mr. Ford and find out who he wanted, or if there was anybody he didn't want. The children were never necessarily selected in the order of application.

Such people ss Prank Gampsall and Lovett would undoubtedly have some influence with regard to some of the people. The old-fashioned dancing classes brought many of the old Dearborn families together, people

Mr. and Mrs. Ford knew. It was not necessarily on the basis of social or economic standing^ some of the children might be sons and daughters of mechanics.

If Mr. Ford knew a mechanic who worked in the experimental engineer- ing department, and he came in contact with him, his children would probably be selected.

All sorts of influences were used. There was a great demand from families to get their children into the school. The list of applicants was much longer than the number of children taken, for only a limited number could be accom©dated» - 62 -

Mr. Ford depended on the advice of others in choosing his faculty. Ben Lovett, the principal of the high school, who really was superintendent of schools, actually selected the teachers. There were soiae changes over the years. They would feel that some teacher wasn't the cooperative type they wanted, and that person would be replaced. The faculty of the schools were always invited to the old- fashioned dances. There were two old fashioned dance groups, one principally from Dearborn and Henry Ford Hospitalj the other Mr. and Mrs. Edsel Ford's friends from Detroit and Grosse Pointe. In the later years, there was comparatively little instruction, because most of us knew the dances, with the exception of visitors occasionally, or a new couple invited to join. I was present sometimes at the second group of dances for it wasn't unusual for me to have the responsibility of entertaining some more or less distinguished visitor for Mr. Ford and he would invite them to whatever dance class was currently being held. These dances generally took place on Friday nights — occasionally on Saturday nights. The Dearborn group would have a dance one week, and the so-called Grosse Pointe group the next week, Mr. and Mrs. Ford were always present, and the timing was always set by Mr. Fordj in most cases after consultation with Mrs. Ford. I've heard Mr. Lovett say to Mr. Ford, "Mien do you want the next dancing party?*1 And he would answer, "I'll let you know tomorrow after I've talked to Mrs. Ford." Mr. Ford was visited by many distinguished people. As years went by, it became more and more my responsibility to look after such visitors. In the earlier twenties, Moodrow Wilson McKay, a nephew of Woodrow Wilson, met Mr. Ford some place— I've forgotten where. He was a young man and Mr. Ford invited him to be their house guest. McKay arrived. - 63 -

The next morning Mr. Ford brought him over to my office. He told McKay I would see that he saw the Ford plants. Mr. Ford said he had some things to do and he left McKay in my office with instructions to bring him to lunch at Mr. Ford's table* He was there about a week. He spent the days with me and nights at the Ford residence» •When it came to distinguished visitors, Frank Caropsall usually would receive a letter addressed to Mr. Ford saying they wanted to come, or someone wanted to bring them, and would refer the letter to me» One such letter came froa the State Department. An under-secretary wrote that the Prince of Monaco and his secretary were traveling in this country incognito. The letter said the prince had expressed a great desire "to meet Mr. Ford and see the Ford works'1, and that he would like to come to Detroit on a certain date — could an appointment be arranged? I told Mr. Ford about the letter. He studied a little bit, and then said, "Well, I guess I'll be here. Tell him to come along." I wrote a letter to the State Department saying Mr. Ford would be delighted to meet the Prince, and we'd be very glad to show him the Ford plants; would they please advise on what train he planned to arrive and what would the car and drawing room numbers be« The answer said the New York Central train, the Detroiter, on such and such a morning. I had also written in my letter that we would be glad to meet the Prince when his train arrived. When I told Mr. Ford this, he said, "Well, all right, you keep track of me.n That meant that I had the responsibility of seeing he was present for the interview around ten o'clock the morning of the Prince's arrival. We then would show the Prince whatever he wanted to see, and take him to lunch at the so-called Round Table with Henry and Edsel Ford. - 6k -

I told Bdsel Ford about the visit so he could plan to be at the lun- cheon. In the meantime, I looked up the history of Monaco and Monte Carlo, and all the information I could get on the Prince's family. The day before the Prince was to arrive, I reminded Mr. Ford, and got the same answer, "You keep track of me$ I'll be here.n The afternoon of the day before the Prince was to arrive, I called Mr. Ford's butler and said, "Will you remind Mr. Ford at breakfast tomorrow that he has an appointment at ten o'clock with the Prince of Monaco in my office?" I was afraid, of course, that Mr. Ford would do what he had done several times in the past — go to one of his farms directly from breakfast. This was in the spring and for about six weeks starting the first of April, he visited these farms quite often, more than at any other time of the year. The next morning one of my two male secretaries called the men at the plant gates and asked them, wLet us know as soon as Mr. Ford comes in and then don't let him leave without reminding him he has an appointment in Mr. Black's office. As soon as he entered the grounds, one of the secretaries would locate himj keep out of his way, but follow him so that when the prince arrived, we would know where to find him. You never could tell what might happen. The Detrciter might be late, the driver might be delayed getting out from town.

Wien the prince arrived, iEqaefecfaafflioani^^ 3fofeBc±faedtead3^^ I knew from a report a few minutes earlier from the secretary who was keeping track of Mr.1 Ebrd tteat he i&sd was in the experimental machine shop. I told the Prince, "I'll go get Mr. Ford. He is out in one of the shops." I found Mr. Ford talking to a man working on a lathe. I waited for a minute until he looked up — then I said, "Mr. Ford, the Prince of Monaco is in my office." -65 -

Mr. Ford said, "Oh, all right, I'll be in there in a minute." I had taken a few steps toward my office when I heard Mr. Ford say, "HeyI" I turned around, walked back, and he asked, ''Where in the hell is Monaco?" I had just assumed that he knew. I told him, "Oh, that's where Monte Carlo, the great gambling place in Europe, is located." He said, "Oh, bring him out here." I went back to the office and told the Prince, "You're going to have a very rare privilege. You're going to see Mr. Ford surrounded by the machinery he loves,11 The Prince's comment was, "Oh, how charming!" Out we went with the secretary trailing behind, I introduced the prince by simply saying, "Mr, Ford, this is the Prince of Monaco." There was no attempt at "Your Highness" or any formality to be used with Mr* Ford, who acknowledged the introduction with, "Glad to meet you. Thought you might be interested in seeing this." And he started telling the Prince about the job on the lathe. I don't know whether the Prince was interested or not. He was paying some attention. Then we heard music, which attracted the Prince's attention. Mr. Ford noticed this and said, "Oh, that's our old-fashioned dance orchestra you hear playing. They're rehearsing down there in our dance hall in the corner of the building," (Two bays had been partitioned off in the Engineering Laboratory Building, and were used as a dance hall at that time. It was approximately 30 x 80 feet. That was before the

Recreation Hall in Greenfield Village was built#) Mr. Ford asked, "Would you like to hear them play?" ~66 -

The Prince said he would be delighted, so we all walked about 500 feet through to the dance hall. It had two large double doors leading into it. Mr. Ford was on the right, the Prince on his left and the secretary between me and the Prince. As we were walking abreast, it was perfectly natural that Mr. Ford opened one of the double doors, and I opened the other, and we all entered abreast. The leader of the orchestra of six pieces heard

us enter and looked up# The orchestra quit playing and awaited Mr. Ford's pleasure. Mr. Ford, with a wide wave of his right arm ordered, ttThis is the Prince of Monaco. Play his national anthem'." The director looked blank, then at the members of his orchestra, and they looked blank. The Prince, with a smile, came to the rescue with, (hovrsjL*№vse "Oh, play the Marselliase." They knew that. From then on, whenever we had distinguished visitors from some foreign country, I always tried to let the director of the orchestra know they were coming so he could have the music for the respective national anthem available, if they had one. A Prince of some little country in Europe meant nothing to Mr. Ford, If he had been told that the Prince was a great industrial leader in his country, it would have meant more. When I had distinguished visitors to entertain, especially when I had to take them over to lunch with Mr. Ford, Edsel, Sorenson, Wibel, etc., it was my function to know something about each visitor in order to pick up the conversations if they lagged. On this particular occasion, after we all had sat down and started talking, there was a lull, so I said, "The Prince's -6? -

family has a museum in their country, established by his grandfather. It's a museum dealing with the ocean — the currents and life in the ocean, and everything pertaining to it. With the museum is an institute for ocean study." Mentioning museums led Mr. Ford into talking about his museum. Then if there was another lull, I was prepared to say something more about the Prince's family and country. Sometimes, with a distinguished visitor, I didn't have to say any- thing, because the visitor would know enough about Mr. Ford, the Ford Motor Company and Mr. Ford's ideas to ask questions and keep the conversation going. Edsel had been in Europe several times, and talked about various countries, asking some questions about Monte Carlo. If Mr. Ford had an excuse, he would turn the talk to his own company. But he was always a very gracious host. He impressed people with his desire that they have a good time while visiting him. Once he had agreed to meet some person, he was most cooperative, A humerous incident occurred when Prince Nicholas of Rumania visited the United States* Queen Marie had been making a tour of the United States to awaken interest in Rumania. The Queen became ill in Louisville, Kentucky, I believe. Prince Nicholas came on with the Queen's retinue; most of them in uniform, and arrived at the Engineering Laboratory one Saturday morning about 10:30. Mr. Ford came to my office about fifteen minutes early. He sat down across the desk from me, where he could look out towards the front of the building and remarked, "I thought I might as well come in here to wait for them." Then we talked about Rumania. Suddenly he said, "Well, they're here. Let's go out in the lobby and meet them." - 68 -

The Rumanian Consul, a representative of our State Department, and some committee which was going to entertain the visitors in Detroit, very ceremoniously presented Mr. Ford to His Highness, Prince Nicholas of Rumania* Mr, Ford acknowledged the introduction, turned slightly 'toward me, and said, "Prince, meet Mr. Black." I could see a look of surprise, not only on the part of the Prince, but also on the part of the other members of the party. I'm sure they wondered, "Who in hell is Mr. Black?" When the Crown Prince of Sweden visited Mr. Ford, the committee in Detroit officially entertaining him were simply beside themselves because Mr* Ford kept delaying their departure by showing the Prince "just one more thing." They made my life miserable for about an hour. The Prince was greatly interested in what Mr. Ford was showing and telling him. He showed no inclination to leave. I tried to tell Mr. Ford the prince had an important luncheon with a distinguished gathering at the Detroit Club and was already late then. Mr. Ford paid no attention and went right on talking to the Prince. There wasn't anything I could do further about it. Mr. Ford showed great interest when the Prince of Wales, now the Duke of Windsor, came to Dearborn. Mr. Ford was less impressed by royalty than most people. He had great respect for the actual head of a nation, because of the man's position; just as he did the President of the United States. When Mr. and Mrs. Ford made a trip to England, where they visited King George 7 and Queen Mary at Buckingham Palace, he was much impressed with two things. ttTou know,"he said, Mthe King knew a lot more about my family than I do. He told me many things that were new to me about my family's history in Ireland. - 69 -

The king had been briefed. Some member of the Government had done some research on Mr. Ford's family. Of course, Mr. Ford was quite pleased, and impressed that the king had taken the trouble to find out about his family. Another event that impressed Mr. Ford greatly in England happened at a big dinner given in his honor in London. There were many distinguished people present. He took a young lady in to dinner, the daughter of some English Lord. "You know," he said, "That girl knew more about the Ford Motor Company than I think I know*" Of course, she also had been briefed so that if there was any lull in the conversation, she could ask him some question, Mr. Ford probably knew they had each been briefed, if he thought about it at all. He wasn't dumb» He was flattered that a young woman had made an effort to learn a lot about the Ford Motor Company. It was a compliment to him, and it pleased him that anybody would take that trouble, I don't think Henry Ford, in his dealings with these people, thought of himself as being very important. He had an innate modesty, which was sometimes belied by some of the things he might do, but it was really there. As far as one could tell, he was at ease with people, probably because he just didn't worry about whether he said the right thing or not. Had he made an effort to do and say the proper things, such as "Your Royal Highness," or to remember just what he should do, I think he would have been ill at ease. Since he wasn't going to bother about it, he was just natural# This was not only true of royalty and very distinguished people, it was true also of others. Insofar as I know, he never made any effort to distinguish between "army or navy rank". - 70 -

I was once taking Al Hagenberger around the Engineering Laboratory, Al was a lieutenant at that time stationed at Wright Field. (He became a general during the second World War.) He was a friend of a schoolmate of mine. We ran into Mr. Ford. I introduced him as "Lieutenant Hagenberger from Wright Field". This was while we were in the airplane business. Mr. Ford said, "Come over here, I want to show you a new engine we're develop- ing." This engine was in a section of the Laboratory where I wouldn't have felt free to take a visitor. Mr. Ford, while showing the engine to Al, kept calling him, "General". He had probably forgotten the name "Hagenberger'1. Al finally said, "Mr, Ford, I'm not a general, I'm just a lieutenant." Mr. Ford said, n0h, that's all right, that's all right, you're a general to me," If it were intentional, it was a very pleasing way to handle the situation. One always was safe in calling any array officer "General"• If the person objected, Mr. Ford could always say what he did. When Henry Wallace was Secretary of Agriculture, he came to Dearborn, and I believe spent two days. Mr, Wallace talked to Mr. Ford about astrology. There had always been rumors that Wallace was interested in astrology* This confirmed them, Mr. Ford was very much interested in talking to Wallace about farming. Wallace could converse about farming very intelligently. They got along extremely well*