The Reminiscences of Mr. H.S. Ablewhite
From the Owen W. Bombard interviews series, 1951-1961 Accession 65
Interview conducted: November 1951 Transcript digitized by staff of Benson Ford Research Center: November 2011
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MB. H. S. A B h i Vft I f 2
ford Motor History Section f 1951 The Rasiniscencea of
. S.
' Tbwtm f«Btai««ae«s «r* th# result of a s®ri«# of l»t«r- with Mr. 11, S. Ablewhlte by !%•» Oweu Bc^bard on 16 May, 1951 at the .Sdtson Institute, this interview HAS held under th© auspices of the Oral Scotiao of the Ford Motor Ca^^f Irsh£v««« fh® ini«rri#i«*» «p8stloo« hav© bMo <»dtt«d' froa tlui.
• fit* q»®ationi^ w»« prljwrily .In the torn of toples »M®«> gested to Mr. Ablevhlte concerning which he might have some ictiiaat© knowledge. Mo editorial insertions have been made other than th@ brief synopsis of the donor's activities and the index. Th© language of the narrative Is entirely that of the donor, 1® has rwiewei aad a©rr«et«d tli« aan^oript «^ %• hit clgnattxrel l»lov lndieatod that it 1® a o©n*»et ©opy of his resdni a eencea. Thi# №.e»olr la depositad Sn th® Ford Motor Iwlth th« •uadsrstandiag that it my b8 m®& lay ^ i» aee«dano« with ace«pfc«d arehlml praetie* mm tey tb,« Archivist.
ii MB. I. 8. ABUSWHI7S - CH«WOW»I
IBS? Sera* GlsmlmA, Qkto
1907-1909 iest«i*» 8»®«r*
1915 A»B», Esnyon Collet©, %£»o©i»l Seiaiaary, Gftafoiwr,
1915 Dwaeon, Prot»*tan% ^AiMiopdl Ctaroli 1916
191?-1919 Bector, Churoh of Good Shepherd, Colveabos, Ohie 1919-1926 Rector, St. James Church, Piqua, Ohio
1926~192t Bestor, Ctaireh &t St* ftilip the Apostlt, St. Louis,
1928-1930 D 1930 0-.0., I«nyoa College 1930*19JW) Cioees© of lfeqw®fcte» Miohigaa 1940 * Sesiolsgieal D»parfci»iit# Ford Motur 1944 M»aa. B, Soelologioal Stepftrtanit* fm?& Motor 1946 Ifeparfcwsnt H«ai B» SooiologloaL Bopurfcwsat, ford Motor I94S P®rsoim®l ®»pf®s«RtatiT» A, Sftlariod Persona©!» Ford Jfotor Cem^ay 1949 Cirector of Interpretaticaa, Edison Institute Museum - 3320 Dearborn, Michigan lit HEL i. 8. ABLSHHETB - GQMStfS Early Life and Bduoation...... 1 WLatlcmshlp between Mr, Issry Ford and ftp. Ablmrisit*. ••••«..•• 2 Hint ory of the 8*e£ Personael Problems of the Ford Motor Company . during World ifer'H...,,,.,,..*.. 22 Labor Belatlons ani th« 1941 Strtk®,.,.,.**...•..,...•....,.....,. / 30 Reorganisation of the Sociological Department 1945..*...... 42 Termination of the Sociological Department...... 50 Cbaract«r Skstcli of H, H. B«nn#tt*...,•«..»,.<,»..,,....,.«...«.•. 58 Relationship between Mr, Henry Ford and Mr. Sdael Ford...... 72 Bglationshlp of Mr. Henry Ford, Mrs,. H*soy Fos«d and Mr. Msel ford as illustrated In the Organization and Supervision of the Mison lastitwfce...... *.« 77 I was bow* 'In SlmmMxAt Ohio (la what is now a purt of to 1«8?. Far iiwi ft»t five y«ars§ I attandMl a p*li© school. After those five years, I went to the University School is Cleveland, which owra«^onds to: th© Sal*«r*ity Seii«©l h«re in Dstrolt* I graduated frwi tfoiTOFftity Setae! and s®»t i decided, because of the death of ay father, I would go to work. ^! I started to work In a bank in Cleveland. From there I went to the telephone company for about two and a half years. fifcen I decided, because some of ®y old teachers got hold of m, I eould i go back to college, I went bask to college for about asm year and tile© ci«eid«d to go into the nlaifltyy* I fial^uM i^r ©®ll#f« and vent to tfa® %laeopal S#aiaary« I gr®diat«d tn 1915. I had always been sotsavhat iiiterested to social work. In fact, first of all while I was In college, 1 thought I would go into social work, but was persuaded, sad decided, to make tb# switch, which I did. I, vust -№ ^id ftal®h®d. After I graduated, I v@nt to CJjaeta- nati and was assistant is a church In Cineinn&ti for about a year and a half} firom *th«ra to Coliaibtts, Ohioj froa ttor« to a snail tona, j Plqua (about 18,000 psoptL«}f fr«» there to St. Louis, memmrlf and from St. Louis, Missouri to Marqtjette, Michigan. ! Aft«r b»iog ia Mtgcquerlt* iu eii«?g® af tb© Cathedral there -1- for atoms* i« year and a half, 1 ma elected Bishop of the Bioeese of Marquette, which coiBprises the Upper Peninsula of Michigan* this was in 1929* t brown© bishop la the spring of 1930* % first eoatoet with Mr. Ford was In this way* 2 was down here In Detroit visiting Bishop Page. 3a»bo«ly asked «« a question (I don*t rentea©©:? ubo 1% was now) Aether J&*» Fort had ef#r . I said9 "Well, I thong^t so too, bat I k»ow other people have tried to eooiaet bia and had very great difficulty doing so, so that I hmt® navwr tried as y»t.* . they adviaei ne to try to get In contact with Mrs. Ford, I sai<4 thut at the first opportunity I weald try to do so. I am not quit© -sura -of th© tints sequence hers, but It was probably aloag in *34 ©r *35» 1 saw in the paper thatfctr» and Jft»s« ford w»i*e ap at the Ewoa Mountain Slab, So 2 wrot© a letter to Hrs. Ford., telllag. her I taww s&m friend® of hars «nd what have yotif «a3 that I voali like verjr wieh to have a talk with her and .see her. ;X& the courts of a day or so, rather to ^f surprise, I got a gr&eloua letter frou hmr saylag she hsA ^en ill «ith a bad cold, and would, igylta me M a day or so and ask m to e®a» owt, It mi a very graeious letter. -a- ,Two or thr#« days went by, and I didnH bear anything. Finally, 1 picked tip the paper ooo aorning and sew wtiere 14r» and- Mrs. Ford bad returned to Dearborn on the *Heary Ford II* or the WB®H»«B Ford." S®, I thought to ajjrself* that is j»st a nice- easy letdown and that's that. At least, I had. tried, fh&i. was oss summer, if he following BWmart 1 saw again where they v@r© at the Huron MowitAln CltA», I- diiaH j»k® any attempt to s«© h«r because I f«lt it vai their ao1**. One afternoon a friend of mine was In to see %s when ths family was out, H« were sitting out on the sun porch of our house. I heard th© doorbell ring, I losm the said was out, and my wife was out, so I .walked around to the door. A yowng wafi was standing at th» door. I looked behind hi«» and there was Mr. Fori. li»ediately the young MB faded out of the picttare. Mr. ford ca»e towards the door, »ad I "said, "tell, J6r» Ford, hm do you do?"' n ,He iaid» 0ht you toow ne^ do you?* 1 said, "lellj, »ost ^©iO.# toow yom frcm yow piot*ffir»»»* I He mM, "Well, I haft mmm to apoXc^ise> to you.* So h»- Q«B© right in the im&m Had sat down. He said* Birs. fort and I both feel vm ow© yoa. a -wiry great apology.* I aaid, nl don't feel that way about it, tat it la wry* very aice ;©f you to em»p and I appreoiate it wry w^i." .He sat down and stayed with ®e about as hour fmd a half. He talked about everything under the am, I couldn't g«t him ©a tte conversation I was imrticu-larly wnxtmm in getting him 012, I told htm seno things, and he had a habit of carryiiie a little pad in his vest pocket with a little, short, stubby pencil. £v»ry once in a while ho would t&ke out this pad and pencil, and jot something down. 2 don't know whstiiar it was nervousness 03? just & habit m what it but anyway he did if.* We talked quit© ft long ttn*» and he said he wasted m to down to D®arbora s«et *3fl» «®1 visit bin* He showed (although 1 didn't realize 1% tiwtt) qxiite an interest id old fwmltta** because ve had some old pieces ami ose or two rather aids ones. Me asked about tJwwu 1 took fa!» omt in th« iiatog roe* «ud *oi^«l hla th* t»W» wt toft. He earn© to smm mm or. two €№ three occasioB®. On none of thsae occasions did he bring up tb» subject I was jaost interested .in, I® si^totts^^ it. I was J««t ttytog to paint «. pieti»« foy M® without 4iyf^tl,y asking hi® for help, because 1 had been told that was not tfc» nmy to do it. If y«» itt It Igr •& teiJtewt »«Uid(|t 'yon vere li&bl@ to get taucft more, nothing happened. I MM M» «B t«® «r thr@e occasions. la 2.939* ttowt* wa» a gw»t #»1 of eeati^^sy i« tlt« If pw Peninsula ma far ss th© Ghnrch was eoneemad, Finallj 1 left th© ainistiy w4 e«w® ioi« to«p« to INitroit* 11«r«i^h ft*. F©rd» I into When 1 cam® down fm the peninsula, I didn't maka & direct contact with him} aoaebady else did. Saw® of my frieada did it for w&. I was told oa a call from Harry Bantwtt that a position vas #p@n# fliay wwrtei si® to oeaa. fhla v&a a position with the Soslolog* leal Department. I understood that at the time that was where I was going to ba. Tba ©all oaaa fr«R Harry B«a»®it# not Mr. Ford*. In July, 1940, 1 started with the Company. Knowing what tod happened, knowing my contact with №p» ford and his being so very gracious and cOTsiog to se« se (we'd had a lot of long talks os various subjects), I t#lt It was a» opportunity. Aft«r* 1 had b«^ thaara q«lt« MM tim« I wasn't getting as mush money as 1 expected I would get, and nothing happened, Th© months went by, and X beard nothing fros i%*. Ford at all. Then oae day I was 19 at Highland Park* I had been sent out, doiag wort or !•«» Inv&stlgating mt cSmekijag as ttoy oaXl«d lt» Th» dsy 1 IMS out at Highland Park, I found a eall waiting for m® thsr©. - They told as Mr. Ford, had bean 1B %Q w@e m, and I had better coae in. Well, I got to. Of course, he bad b©ers there aad ted said something about coiaing back, but h® didn't coae back. 1 we@k or so vent by, and be cms® again. 2 vas in* The atrang© part of it is that th« man had & aarvsloiia senioryl I went into a stsall office there. I didn't haire an office of Jay own at that time and I went into a vacant offie© with him. The chauffeur stood on the outside and closed th# door. 'Mr* Ford aat down across the desk froa me and took up the conversation that we had had sees two or three years before* It least, he recalled the oonwraatlon, rao&lled what we talked about, showing that he certainly had a marvelous memory.. He went into soiae talk about what had happened to me. He said, "You idealise, I suppose, now (he had sort of & twinkle and smile on his fas® when h© said it) there Is polities (1 have forgotten the other tern h® used) in the ©htareh AS well as other places** n I said, Isaf I have- fouad that o«t** fhat was around lat@ fall of 1940, and I had started In Jaly» I would s©« hia oeoatio«*13j the»« I©'d eoae and m® met a&ybe - Bmn 'MKW|tt£s came to mb<^ 191St Just atomt the. ead ©f W^rM.Mar 1, It is all hearsay to tae, I net. Marquis on one or two oc- casions, but never to talk about his work with Mr* Ford? In fact, It was long after he left, the Ford li»tor Company. Daan Marquis vmm Bmm of the Episcopal Cathedral, St. Paul's Cathedral Is Detroit, and MA been Own for ft few ^art previous to his leaving, m& coming with Ford Motor, What «ad« him decide to cone with Ford Motor, or hm h® and UP... Ford gwgejMf Interested to eaefe either, I do not know* I do teow that it wcmld be rath«> 1-think, a natural mom oa Hwtpis1* part to take, the opportunity a® It was presented, as be- tfaoaght it probably would fee,]t o em® with a g3*#at iadoatri&l argaoimtion, ftor® h*f« always b»«a two th«ori@s as far as the wtelitry is concerned. There is one group that put all the emphasis on the prophetic side, wad there is the other group that put its emphasis on . the priestly side or sacramental aide. Marquis definitely belonged to what is roughly called the Imi church, as far as the Episcopal church is concerned, which would put the emphasis on the prophetic side and would b© tr«wndo«flly i»t®r»»t®d I» the soeiftl gospel* The period from 1910 was m great period, when Bauschenbusch was very ,«troag Mid ftlo t of peepl© followed faira. - thm* w@r© graat examples throughout the country of men who were following that same idea in their ministry* Some of the great institutional churches in th@ omm%vft like St.. fiborg©1® la Mm twk, followed bis ideas. j frank folam mm® ©at to Oineiimftti in 190? or l$08« H® had been on© of the assistants of St. George's. He carae out to the Middle West aiid started, 'through Mr«. &t«ry Cth® gr»at Ikmrj ««tate in OinsSji »ati)# to taiild this terrifie institutional ehtireh, Christ <»hwreh.» i» Cincinnati on Fourth Street. A number of theffl case out to the Middle West, aad vere disciple® of that type of thiaking awl religion* Bean Ifa^ttls was definitely in this obtain intellectual atmosphere of that etaroh group, m far as I u able to determiae* When this happened, Charles D, Williams was Bishop of Michigan, and, he also was m great exponeat of the social gospel. It seems rather strange to me. It shows the many facets ©f Mr. Ford*a eharsater* 1 rather Aoutet if Mr, Ford would tuswe keen an adnirer of Biihop Chaa&wi D» Willlaasy tecano® Oharlfts D, VlUlaauft was very cordially hated % so mmy of the industrialists of his day. He was considered quite rabid and radical. Today to wouldn't be considered so at all, but he was then* It is rather interesting to speculate on how Marquis and Mr. Ford happ«n®i to cliek so that Up, Ford -woaM takft Beaa Mttrqtdi and let hin set up the Sociological Department, spend the enormous SUMS of money which he spent, and back him to the limit, as he did for tvo or thre© years. fh© only thing I ttaae ^ feeling oa in regatta to :^y Mgo?qttts left and decided the pitta wasn't working out as ho conceived it and thought it should, it more ©r lesa hia book, I n#v«r talked t® hSa «iM«xt it, In the period of 1920 mt 1921* th# depression |»riod» there case into Ford ijiotor Company a tremendous number of new tasn, so to speak, and a trenendoym nonber of the older sen went oat* It would appear to rae, knowing t^ie of those men who cam© in, -10- like Soreusea, P* B» Martin aad various other ones, they v*re Ja»t store hard-boiled. If you will, and felt the work of the Sooiologioftl Department was doing »othing worth vhile and should be dene awsy witlu SvidentHy the prewrare was on, and sooner or later Mr. Ford wiemwtbftd to it* 1 wwtld plok 1921 as %h® iwginaii^ pswer of this tough school, from what I have observed and fro© what I have heard from people who were hera. Oaring the period after Marquis left, I tistsrat-and the- department practically petered out. At times there was no department at all. It was revived intermittently. Somebody vould be given some- thing to do that y$8 analogous to the work they had done. Generally speaking, it had. a pretty Intermittent life, and somttlfflet I say no life at all a»tll the depression vhea it began to to© revlvfcd, fhat gam it its next iapetas. With We* FoM starting tto© work otrt at Inkiter for the eol©j*M peopOLe — the rehahllltatisa of Inkster — th© ^departaeat was r»vl^ed again.* Agais I «» talttng pmeeig fro» hearsay aad history 1 me able to gather dtaring w W®ST® there* At that tine* dariag the rehabilltmtlon of fntater, there were two ©r three people working in the departwat fto did tmthiag else Isit wosrk in Ink»t«r. Tbmm va» one aan ^ the. mam of Mefester i^»o works over in the ©aployaairt ©ffio.® nov, iftto ^s in to© departawat «t that time. H« aade the ooatr«ots with vario«s sttrpentei* eontraotors to- rebuild a.oae of thoa© boasee. they were just shaoks. His work vma to -11- them, to take the families anct set them on their feet agsia. They opesejd the Xttkat&r Oowtlssaryf as they called it* op.the Xskattr store vher» they tolel sttjaplies at e©st to the people oat there* It was a, -branch of the R%hla»d. Park store whiefa was the big Gowtssary Sep&rtneat* That was eaafried ©a 'all through the depression. There was still the afttw»th of it, to a alight degree, when I ease ia 1940, although it was pmetioally aH closed up* the ®mmlB8№f was still: mousing, and raa- tmtH alter the troion came i&# ia 1941. Then it was closed down. It would appear as though it was a form of punishment. 1 am sot sure who was in charge of the department during the depression. Frest 193? to 1939* K&rty Jackson was probably la charge, wfaeo frank Morpfey waa govern* is Michigan. Jackson left his Job as warden ia the penitentiary. I am sot sure who was $M ehargef tfat when I eaa© ln# there hai l^ea a »aa in charge fty the mm of Robert Taylor for a eotqd© ©f y#ara, gg imp have been her®, baek through *38 or »39« la I940f when I first gone here., we w©ri£®d with a@» awl' employees who w@r» i» bad fioa»oial straits. I sat aoress the desk from a man by the name of Stsy who was in the department and. who was -12- me department received, roughly fifty to 100 letter* * day, These' letters ea»e from all «nrt» of stores, mostly frw the «htap®r stores, vft&t we oalled the gyp-joint stores arooad tmm* they woald writ® In ateoat Jo® Blow ©wing then f3Q* 140 or |60| if 2m didn't pay, tlwy w#r» going to get a jitftgasnt against him* that was one type of letter that time in, th3№at«nJjig to take jttdgM&t* We would call those asn, sit down with then and try to straighten oat their financial affairs, try to tell than to go down and see these people and n&ke arrangements to pay mrm as low as H & week. V® felt most of the stores would be fair with these people if they would be fair with ths stores, this, of; course, was trua in some instances mad untruss is other instances* If w® felt \m osaAi do ai^thlng* to prevent • judgrseot, asd we felt th« mm fairer ^»aat what he »id§ «e woald ©all themes up and talk to the credit aan and tell hi® we were going to John down to him, and would he please enter into auch an arrangement, ufaich we had stiggested. We 4.M that dozens of ti«es mmwf day. Of com*®©, tha otter type of notlc© mm received was direst' from our pay office, and it said John Qm has been g&misbsed, and soBMthing will hav© to be done %\mat it* He either bat be«a ptr- nisheed one»f twice, or three or four tia^is. They v«re just about to notify the fovers that be to please let the mgo, We voald call that man in. We would call him in, the sase -13- as we did In the oth«r «&»©> by having a notice pot on hia eloek esjpif that hm gjuat report, to tta# Sociological JDcpartawot* & some casas, where It was a big case of gwraiataaeot and the aaa waa liable, to be fircsd, we weald even go so fas* as to have his oard palled ao that he eoQ&dB't go to work without c«B.ing ia to a#« as, £«t9r v» eooldaH 4© that, l»it w® WSTK mly doing It for th« i»n*8 ©s«a good or what it was. W@ ad^t vnm g#- to that l«agth ts eall th© «m in and say, •'Sow, look h®r«f fm*m IA bad shap«. What can we do for you? We're h@ro to help you!" So?BQtisii©3 ue could and sometimes, naturally, W0 coulda't h®lp Ji^# &^rti»»s v« woaM liav© to notify %bm §№p»riMtmA®®t'a offto® of the fettiMi^ he MM i»# tailing th«t v« had wracked ittth hia^ aad- there was utfthtag ©ls« to li@ dca»« atxmt it. !Cbat was tl«t, Ihat waa the first job I was pat oa, ;'fh«3№ yma oth«r work I hslpei out on, so I eoa34 Imx® what was going cm* Itoat was this hospit&Hnation plan wher« a aw would ovm into the office and say Ms wife needed an operatioa, or bis wife was going to have a baby, or his child was sick and needed medical car©, or he hitsaelf needed hospltaliBatton, This plan had bmn going on for a long line. It was noised abroad thro«#iottt th» piABt tlmt it j^aM ^» d«s»« , ais is the way it worked. A nan would eosae in, sit down at th« d««k «nd t«ll as his st-or^r* M« wottli try to find cast his background* whether he owned his own how®, whether h© had any money la the baric, what sort of a record he had with the Conpany, how long he- work#d for the Companyt whether it wan a good reoord, etc If it was, and we found it was a wan who had just -run into hard luck and really needed help, we would say to him, "All right, you go to Henry Ford Hospital. Mate© ar»ng«№®Bts ow there for whatever work is to be dooo, and we will notify the hospital to charge the account to us. We- would ©3Q3laia to him, i» order to proteot ourselvetf that this wa# not ©hsrity, this m.a juat the-seme aa if ha had gone t© a bank and borrow« aeeoipdiag to bif oo^itioa> what his financial status was* In each ease, we tried to make arrange- seats that «©ttl4 fit beat •!» the -JMividual case. That was mor© or less the general office routin© — people eotting for that sort of help, people coming in for financial advice, that we had called in, many of thessi eoniing in on their own for help of one kind or another. -15- Maybe a man would come in wantin; a transfer because he felt the job be was on was too tough for hlw. That would require Investigation and would require going out in th© plant. It would require a WHWiieal ©pinion as to his ©otwHtion, talking to hie foreaan, seeing if th®r® %m@ another job to whieh be could be transferred that sight be easier for hl» or that be watt able to do* That was, generally s pea icing, the flow of work that came ttoot^h th# office* 1A this »arty period, ue bad ve»y f«w investigation* on »oralsf as far as the indiiricittftX was eocctr^id.. W# WTOM* of cowse, !»•## wii«ea coning in eaaplaJiiiiti their hasfe^la weren't bringing the »ot»y hi»Qs that they were at©fpi^ We would call that wan to and talk to his* We wsstl& talk to the wife. Probably one of the w#nan investigators would go out to the hrnrn and really «ee what sort of a hmm it was aai si»« ixp th« wife, MHfim the wife was responsible} i»fe© it wasn't a pleasant home to emm h.mm to, so to speak. Me WCKIM trj to find out all abemt what was really causing this trouble, and then talk to- the mm* We would try to fiad out if he was an alsobolie and whether there was a'problem of just being fed up with life — just what was Sometimes we would call In both the aan and woraan, sit down with jt»e» and try to help |hjj| to work out their own pr©©le«# ^fortunately, they did things in rather highhanded ways at tiraea. . Same was a holdover tram the old condition of things. One© in a vhlle (I suppose yom esn say it was Mghh®M«d) It worked and was very efficacious. Sometimes we wouldn't let the nan get •his own Moneys ln*fe let the wife cone and draw his pay to preroiit that situation — >not losgt maybe two or threa pty** W®aally It didn't work, but sometimes it was tried. Those things are always makeshift. There Is something fundamental which you have got to get down to the bottom of* W« dtdsH h&m any payoliiatristia or th# people wh# ecmld do a job lika that* if It was to IJ« don®. Of ©©tars®, that requires a tremendous amount &f tiise, effort and work. At the tiaie I joined the Sociological Dep&rtmont, there ' : were »m» fexy hon#«t, very hari*^orking pmp2mt both aen and vmmn$ but no one la the entire department nad aiay aoelal work tr»iniag behind bin. Until 1 case in there, there wasn't & single person with toadkgroaRd for the work. Jfaey had either worked into that seme nay or another,. got into the depaytaaaat, or they had been plated th@r« through the influence of soae one* №. Bennett sight have put then there beeaMa® he felt they might tee of use. Ht-wro v®r© about twenty- fi^e people In the department «hen I em* to, there wwm a lot of good people, a lot of hard-working people, as I said, but no on© with any training or background for the Job, . It was a vary dangerous thing to hate ina3{>exiaaaed people faa,ndle those problems, I won't say It wasn't worth valla* I think a tremendous ntsobw of men were helped, especially oa the hospital- ia&tion end of it, faer© was a nan who had charge of that partlotilar part of it at that tlne« fast-was £» 13, Broun* He is!an old»tintr with the Company and is over io the e»ploys»Bt office now. Be bad efaarg© of that, He was pretty tough* He haA no toaekgrotm$« I don't beliefs he graduated fro» high school, bat he bad been with the Company for « long tiae. 3ow>tlBi®s I thoaght he was terribly hard ant tough* Other tia#« I thought he- was just the opposite. As far as I could deter- mine, taerW'vas no real polley laid. 4«w» as to who you w«re gaiaf t© help and who you were not going to help. It was a question in ay Bind* a good way tints* of who told the -test story * frankly. fir. Bennett wa» in charge of the Soeiologleal fiepartBent to establish polley, if there was to tea one, fbat WAS the oaf or- tismte })art of it, Mr, Bennett was in charge, and no one who worked for Mr» Bennett ilreetly hud rerg ««eh ohaiie«- to «j^a^®a their oim ideas. When I mm® into the department, no one was in sharge. It was sort of v$ in the sir, Jackson bafi left there baf«r« I saws, I -18- think he left A year or so 'There was % mm by the nas# of" Itobert Taylor .who I never knew* Krfor to my coding la, mm three or four nrouths, h# was taton 111 with a very land heart. A month after I e«Bet he died, ffc®» the iepftrta»at drifted aloog with »o mm 1B eterg« imtil the 'late fall of *40« t&»« suddenly we w«re t^.d# but had ao official es^mailcatton, th&t a ms by the oaae of €edrie Sadth* who vas faailiarly teown as Fat Smithy was in eharg«« Be was not- la the office at the tiraa. He worked directly for Mr. Bennett, is nevar mm avoatKl* thin nan waa to .eharg® Imt ha «o«14 Just show up oeeaatonally, Il# knew ootMlng about what was going on. He had no s?or© conception of what wsa going oa than a ehlM. H® wam't there enough to the first place, and other re««o»# t«©» In '41, of cotsrse, they started to bui.14 the bcsaber plant. In »41 was the big strike. I© %h» fall of *<4l# d*» to the imiflm coalttf in, they decided to cHapena© with the hospltaiisatioo part of lt» They cut that out e«?if}letelyf just oold — stopped ii.l lo reason was given, but I think It was because of the wilon co?sing. they thought m» long as the tmiom was ia» let th«» do-those tilings, we111 stop it. f r that waa late 41« Is UtiNsh ©f 42t Mr* Soegliyi &*mm$. who had cSiarge of the hospital assignments for the Sociological Department out had also had a trewendotts aaount of employment eaperienee o'ror the .,> years, was transferred to Willow iftiit as es?plojment -19- 4t the sa»© tia»> they cut the vork of Soelologieal eta® to the taking sway of the hospital assignments which had b©»» done previously. But with the ti*an«fearring of Bram to ViUcnr &my ih#y cut the pereoanel of Sociological by about ft^s or six people* ' % ean't reroirtwr the ®»et umber, but It l#ft approximately fifteen or eighteen p@©pl« in the departnaint. At that tiMBt I was aaked to assume charge of the departtsent, I wasn't, app^intsd the head of the department, but I was virtually in obmtgm of the depw^a«nt • P»t S»ith was the mm Ao told me so, ffcfltt '42 *44f that was the way It worked. I was ostensibly told I had been in charg© and trying to do the best job I knew how, but Fat Smith was eontintiaHy ifit®rff«a»ini tmt-il it reaehed » #lto«3E. He knew Both ing sibout the work, aad I, is th© jseantima, had. . started to try to vatic* aonw ®hang#» «ad pot tlw thiag oa * foetisg 1 thought it ou^ht to be pat on, I v&m doing it to the beet, of ay ability vith the people I had to work vitiu In the late fall of *&3, it was a very bid situation. 1 was very much upset about it* I didn't knov which way to jwsp. I had an idea this mil was very close to I-lr, Bennett and that maybe I had better consider leaving and going somewhere ttlm$ but 1 stayed on, Abottt tt» thljwi op fourth of Jawwury, 1944* tbere i»# a report I mad® oat for Mr« B#tta®tt|, * r»pirt on the hospital* Of eeure** w® bad •20- a lot of money OB the books in the hospital. I was also able, because I [email protected] ay authority tram Stsn Fay, to revive the hoapltaliaatlon & little bit. There were so sany cases eoning in — not so wany, but th<§ . occasional, cases cowing —• that I felt the Company was working a great hardship on its mea by refusing willy-nilly to do this. I had received the authority to do this fron Mr. Stan fay, Mr. Bennett's secretary, whom I had come to know just & little bit because he had called me on various things — not well, but just to know him. In this particular ease, I had to «aks this report for Hr« Bennett. I made the report out for Mr. Bennett: and sent it to M», This was the thing that eaaaed the friction* the final break* I sent it over. Mr. Smith earns in and wanted to know what basi»«.gs JJ, had, sending the report to Mr. Bennett. 1 would only see hi» ones or twice m week for a&ybe tweaty minutes. He wanted, to- know what right I hadt sending th© report to Mr* Bennett. I said, "Well, Mr* Bft&aett asked for the report," He said, *Well# yow sho'ald hav« let a© s«e it first.* I told hl% "Ion ean just go to h»ll aa far as I m cos- earned! i Ion don't know anything abo^j thia |ob. Please d -21- out of hare. So I calsed myself down. Ja afeout fifteen admit es I called Hr« Bennett's office. I got hold of Stan Pay, Ihe minute I told him who I was, fa®said , "Stop worrying* Stop worrying, Sfeaything Is all right, lot*111 hear fraa wi ia about three-quarters of an how.* ,1a about three«quartars of an hour an official ease over* #ign@d by Mr. Bennett, appointing wa head of the leal Dttp&rtwent. That vaa the firat tioe It was really offfietal* • Imi might say 1 had b»ea doing it for tuo years, touttha t na« the first tis© it was official, from then ea» 1 got to know 'Stan Pay, .and ha g®v® ws the ohauo© agiin to do torn hiring ©a ^r mm» ftpior to that, I was aot allowed to 4o ay owa hirii^. fhey had all been sent to a® teg №?* a»»n«ttfs office. ;'My ataff was »ot «^»od«d ehnring thia pariod* We wire operating with about fifteen people mp to th&t tis®,. I started to expand a little bit; 1 &v»n let oa# or two f»opl« go «ad got o»e or two other .people in, fhat went OB «otil the Aange osne* fh»n they allowed »© to hir« 8©»» a©j^ peo^l®. Siif was the Qiaage ia f45« At that mm time, ths^r also were setting up at Highlaad Park what they called the iireetor job. it was the bo»to-sigJit joto which, as 1 understand It, I don't b®li«v® they were »*®r very cesefol in l»H4l«g those b«b sigiitB. they epent & terrific smcsfuot in the departwsnt up there -22- for thm Baking of those teo»b tights, but how #uGe#sa£»l they t do not taaow, Hovevwr, th«y war© hiring women ir»ry rmpidly. Qsa© of my first jobs, even though I was carrying on in tha sociological work (they were hiring both at Highland Park and at the Bouge, hut £%£ Highland Park at that time), was to hire women for the so-called director job at Highland Park, which I did. this job aastanded over two months. Beginning April 1 or the middle of April of f42, I began to hire these woaen, as .an №iplo^a»Bf ag«nt and #»pl©yront ag»ney for Highland %rk« W»»d ti^ to ssrean these wa»Bn as carefully as tf@ eowid* To screen these women, we didn't have very much criteria - to go by in those days, Ther® v©r« »o qmlifloatloaa .gives as far as education %m& concerned, but w© tried to get.a better type of woia&n. they had realized already the difficulties they w©re starting to experience in the hiring of women, and the great problems that were coming l»t© being thwrftfcy* - At the sarae time that I was hiring women for Highland Park, they mm also hiring votten for the begtunin g of the aircraft job in th# Alreraft Building in the I@«g#» vheye th»y w®ro getting ready to build the Pratt & Whitney engines. They were hiring women there and likewise they were hiring hundreds of women, along with men, out at Willow fiun at the same time, there was a road scramble for months, -23- of Juat hiring people right and left, everywhere, trying to get set to go. . Other people, for example, in the Sociological Department, did not assist in the hiring at these two places* We got up no offioe. At that time, ve had no office .set tap at Willow Boa. Her© again, I was touting things oat .there and not tawing • ex&etly what was going on, I ta«w that UP, Srown had t>ee» trans- ferred out there as eraplojinent manager. Waturally, frcna time to time, 1 hail to go oat there; problems would arise that he would call about, or someone would call about, for ua to cheek on. X would eith«r go out or S9n& so»ebody out. Along in late auminer, I think it would be '4^j ^. Bennett hired a woman bj th« mm@ of Mrs. Go»on# Jos»phia@ Qamm, She had b«@n a secretary to QoTftmor Muri^iy who had bsen got®mor here* . I think »h® was in the fhilijpinos with hia when h« vm the gmm&am?** general of the- Philippines. She had beec his secretary dxiring the time he was governor. From what 1 knew of her directly, bocaua© I came to know a«r somewhat, sh» wa@ quit© a powtr in 'a«#©ratia jwutitiss, bsta in the state and in" the nation* That was probably one of the reasons why Mr. Bennett hired hop. I don't know what you would call her job. Technically, she was really a part of the Sociological Department, but Z had no control -24- ov«r her at all. She wasn't a recruiting agent. 1 don't think she did any hiring at nil. I think 0h* was sort of in ©harg® of doing sociological work at Millow Boa with WOM#II, handling th® aoml As I saj, 1 had no r®ally firsthand eontaot with what sh« • was doing. It was all, ox* seeraed .to b*> somewhat' of ft hush-huah affair. 1 had no control over her whatsoever. She was absolutely '' ^ independent and en her outs. X know she traveled some. Just what she was doing, I can't answer* But ther« was a vary elaborate' §#t«p at Willow &at« UP, Bennett maintained as office out there and had a secretary out' there. I think his s«Qr«tsp?y «aa a fallow fey th® ma» of Bob Moo^t, I thirfc h© is working for th* Co^uay now, but I aa aot qtdt« SUM of th© naae. .H© is working for tb® Go^wny now, to w& &®«t kaowl«dg##' because I have se©n him some time to the last jear or so* KB was a f©ry »ie@ young wan. 1 don*t thii& th«r© n&§ vmry aweh for him to do oat there, • He had to b® there when Mr. Bennett came, and his fianction was about the w«m as 3tao l^sy's function.at the Sou^e. fh©r« w«r« -wry ©laborat© and beautifol offie«s bmilt o»t there. Of -ec№rs«f KaisNBv^rm'Mnr'.has th«i now,' B©an#tt -25- Later on tward the end, I would say beginning saayb© as late as *43 ®r '44» I transferred two op three people to Millow Hun, lie did sat up a little offloe up there — m had to — doing •SG&etly the fane work that we yera doing at th© Bouge* In other words, we set up an offioe with about three people in it* I transferred.a young woman out there and two other people, doing' the MOM work w« were doing at the Bouge in the way ©f helping mn with financial ppohlMM and working on sarae of these moral probleras. It seeded to me, a« I analyzed it, that th« big problea was that suddenly you had a great group of women, perhaps the larger ^ part of th«a» TAO had navmv worked behove in a faetory. Suddenly they were making considerable nosey, their husbands were mking sore money perhaps th&a they had eror nade hefor»f if they -were warried. Hiera was of necessity a great deal of sharing the ride. I think the cora&lBatlon of @en suddsnly being exposed to vmm$$. working r&ry intisntely arow^ th«a# a»d vie# fmts&t eatiaed these explosions, m to speak, that is ny test knowledge of it, sharing th© rides, stopping for drioka *ft«rwupdf goiag hoi»» Of aoaraet they were rwnaiag- three shifts, and there was a lot of freedom and independence m the part of both ma and vogi@ns perhaps* that we can my they had not had before. H»y jaat ooaM not take it. %at ia the way it »#©^rf tom. 4a an illustration of it, & ma noald eone to, a»d his wife bad insisted on going to irorte. He hadn(t quoted her to vork, bat ah© wanted .36- to, Suddeiiljf be ro&llMd things vwrenH going right* Be began to n Me*A coma la raving and &t»a&difig that ne ftot tft» vmmm$ whl^i m coalioH do on M« a&y«»o« W« wesren^t naming a Soadagr school} th4t ws«H «ap job. 1)1© sansa way with a woaas ceding in and d^miadlag that a f WCMMTO be oluuntged or tr«ncf«nredi oat of hm* h««l»adi » i<^HPt^»tt because sha vm« & tel j^flwse®' for bla. Soo®tis»3# if we fait that there waa say ^»n@® of CIOSJ^ anjth.lng 'at: all, we'd get the man in and the woia&rs 1B, so^etlses a tliird pertjr i»« We «oal4 call the* in sepwpfttaly flrtt, «id alt dona with thettt and try to vmmm with thg« oo the 4eelt and tlwa get th®a all to^tb«r« Saldosa were w» suco^ssfwl, 1 u^ild say. Osc© is a whll© w@ would do ft job, but it got to be ao f lagrasit and so widespread that ve Just eooXdnH 4o T«*y wtnto about it. It: «ee«ed. to be not worth the effort, la the first slase, the mion felt that %w»^ m»e of tme business, aM protmblj rightly so. & ems«« where mm of th so flagrant and wane of than cwMtiag «oeti tmtoXd wiseiy — taptsklng up of harms and what haw you —• it s®ea©d as though soae&odj oiight to try to do aoMihlBg aboat It. 1 think Bennett was personally interested in cleariag up th« situation* He would jolt© about It as frep»ylp$y jotod about £t# and irftoarks w»r« passed around concerning Willow Ion and eonesroinf the Aircraft Building here, which was the worse offender because ©f the tremendous number of women in there. I think fundasaentally h© was inteire«tad in seeing It stop^l If h© eotdd, Thmt® vman*% wmh yon cool There was jaat a lot of grief# jiwt ft lot of ,gyi#f. fh® of having so «aay w^wn missd in «n ialttstrial »itt»tiaa just . ia»ing about satisfnetory result a» Of eow^ae, it was terrible to go ttooagli the plant, to go through the AJLrer&ft fiailding ai^ ®mm oth«r haildiQfs. hired. It almost appeared as though nobody gave a daaxs, 1 worked six fbe union In this cmsat by setting op « steward, set up another layer of aupervialoia for handliag personnel at large. I have forgotten what the ratio was, but It was ridieulotts, the miaber of stewards for the №»b@r of employees, Th« IfLllsr Boad haodbUl inj«B@tion took pl&ee in That 0ias« of the labor problem had sort of b#@o 9,eeo«pli»li«l I ea«© Into th® pletvtre, 1 tt«rted la July of *40t «M there to b®» for;that three or four aonths# ppobaWLy a great deal going ©B that I knew nothing about, being mm and busy with ray mm Job. 1 trying to learn that, as I was in and oat of tee plant all i®y and Men w©re fired. X have amm plant protaction men bring wen into th« sttpioywsnt offie®, «nd I began to leam why they w«r® being brought. Thej were being brought in there because they were fired 1^- the for^aa or whosver it was. 1 lot of tilings liter that 1 donft teoy v«fy »a«h about firsthand be-«»tts« It haj^eiwri too »o©n. If I'd been thero two oy th3p®« year© Ixmger* I'd ba,v» prol»)33Ly taamm wimj mom people 'and had many aor© contests ssd 'be«n »№• taailiar with the situation. I was to© new to teow what vaa mUy Hie Bsgoti&tiona with Homer Martin preceded ae. cam® Into the picture, Hosser Martin ted left the lasion and was working for Harry Berm©tt. He just walked out and was working for Bennett, At the tine I knew of hits, I dou't know exactly what you ©all his pelatlcmsliip to Hanry Bennett, I #ap{»©s@ h© ms mm of Ms honchisen, so to speak, one of his investigators like so many dozens (if not hundreds) that he had scattered aroundj they were doing whatew? work they wer« asalgned to do — investigation op -31- what y A» far ass I could, obaesro* this reached an s.©st« stag# titian wer^body began to talk about it# saying, *Th«r«*f§ going to to A strike, sore »» the world!• Wb«c it vat going to ®mm§ nobody knew, but they knew things vere seething underneath. .Bv@n I could feel that, mostly because of the poople I vat to contact with who talked, about it — plant protection men, employment ra®n» formes* I had talked to* Ion could juat feel it in the ai* that things w»r# aot right. Ho «HM tamt (I «ay »o Q®*$ X suppose f,^p, did) how imminent it was, I hav# foygott^a thd date of tlie strito, but «• ean say it was at»ttt tlie aMdl» of Af*il* I left th« plant that nigtet arsd case ta@M. I lived in the Ford Po-unclatiorj then, as 1 do sow, tout «sjr wife w«s living- this. She -m.3 going t& drive me to work in the raorning becaua© she wanted tb« car, W# got ap in our nmml «aao«r» 1 didn't teow * thing aboat it at all b®e«n»® we*4 b»«a te*'slng oar br«akf»st. She was going to take w» to the plant, M«llf out we go and get, onto ftotwnda Drive, aod I f«t up to Gr«anfi«ldt. wad I ooaMaH g®t ^^ot of (^riecmfiald* S»«y had b&iwleaetes asi^saa tho road at Oar«ea- field, and some cars were is the ditch, etc. I turned left on GreenfxaLd and went up to Michigan, and then took Michigan to Mill«rf thinking wy foolilrijly that I'd te» -32- able to get In aotae way. I turned right on Miller Hoad, and X hadn't gone 200 feet before there was another barricade across the street. I couldn't get through. I an telling you this to show you how complete they had that plant sealed off. I turned around, went back to Michigan, down to then Wyawiag wer to Mx$ cooing aroursd that way. Sot Bix «ad . . Miller load again were bloeked off. I e&n reiaaraber it. wry well because everyone was yelling and milling around. % wife, being of a peppery disposition, started to say what e terrible thing she thought it was. X said, ttPor goodness sake, keep still!" They were turning mats over! ilh®» 1 got there* I resliied j«at uiait ti» «ituati©» mm* that it was Just ispossibla for m© to fit im ^ I tum®d around and drove back horns and just waited. X began to get to touch If tele- phone to see what it waa all aboxrt, what wets expected of is©, and what I could do, etc. Finally, v« »®t up an offiq* «T«r in th« Bmoy foard Hospital. ^ A great many nan- had .jcmo into th© plant 'that morning. Borne, of coarss, on the night shift, were caught in there. There were & grwt sj&ny s«n that were loyal to the Company. 'Ihere ware probablj three or four thousand wea in the plant all told, wyb© mores, 4 great muay had goas in that aornicg, foread their way through tte pietatt line »od -battled thair way thrwa#u 7lu»ae -13- of coarse, httet to be fed. this anarchistic situation where they had the plant abso- lutely sealed off, allowing nobody to go in cap out (fey the middle of ths morning at least ~~ aorm had gotten in early In'the morning) lasted for aoomt three- days until the state polio* took ©v®r. When the state polio© took over, they began to get,the thing squared away, and this would allow certain people in and out, sons s&in~ tenanee people, eta,, people that had nothing particular to do with the union, or were not union members. They allowed two or three of our people in and out, carrying supplies in to therasa — I don't vmm foody out I mean clothes and that sort of thing — under great protest. The Sociological Department ted been singled out &t that time by the union, A great deal, of their propaganda was against the Socio- logical because they called it the "stooge depgrtwmt11' of larry 'Bennett (which it had been, undoubtedly, is years gone by, and vms to soae degree when 1 case into the picture In 1940). It was, "Bonn with the S©©iol«gi*ial ftepartiaent!* fiiat waa one slogan. Then, "Down with i'larshall (the ©fflployment mm) and-Us atooge Villla Vard!* I didn't hairo s chance to tall: with Bennett mt all during this period* le got in and out. He was in ths Administration Building. They ploketed the Administration Building but sew tried to seel it off in any way, Tney had pickets and they probably yelled at yoa» but they ROTW^ tried to eloa® it mp the way they did th« Soog»« I don'ttatow vhnt he vas doing at this tine because I didn't a#e Ma, ,1 suppos© be had plenty of sen out, the way he always had, keeping his «ar to the ground esd taewiag exactly vhat was happening all the time, IWoabtedly ha had sto^©» right in the mil® so thai nothl&g happened. He probably knew about the strike and its iredaence, unless they were able to hide it better than it appeared they could. At this psriod, it would apptar that Mr* Ford »4# a vary • sudden change of |>ositlon when they decided to raooguis© the uniooi* That Is something I don't know, Qnce or twice 1 thcmght X would ask . Pr®d Black about that to see if be knew,tasit I'd always forgotten it ytbmn 1faagjp@n«€ t o b» with hin« When they gave thcs contract to the union, it was & complete wrtasiorplifMiia —. a ©atipl#t# flop — fpo» on® position- to mvkhmr. Of course, it was on© of the best contrasts that had ever b®on glWR to a tmi«Msttp to that tlae 'by a»y org«nl8atlo&« It wut on* of Warn moat liberal, ' Whether Harry Bennett bad COJBO to feel that that was tiling to do OP the y«««ons fop it, ptri»ps aomnbody ©an t«ll it better than I ®a»» I really don*t ka©w# We did&H hat® as •<^p©f*ttBity to be in m aacf of the . : negotiations, to ob»@rv» m hmmt anything, : Outside of aiding the people in the plant, our .35- do anything als® during this period. Thai's about all we oould do. Oar records were cut off, and there wasn't anything much ve' could do. Th« fact that th® uviion was finally recognised did not ask® a ehange in mr operations* The uaion didn't atxaaeed te enrryiag owl th® . . "Down with tha Soeic&ogieal Psp&FtateRt,11 Gap depevtneat m» antouohed. H® we»t on with our work J«at the aaae, <&®r a fwodod ©f tl» next iiaree or foiu* yaars tut move, we began to kill off a great deal of that antagonism that had existed? even before '45 ve began to kill soa© of that off, toteavts*afte r that with the great saplcrproent @xj«nsion, the union bad tvo of thoir representatives right In the ©aploy»®Bt offiee. I came to know those tvo -mea very well. They were pretty good eggs. They wera voting fellows and had pretty f&ir outlooks on things in general. It was like that all around. If you sit down arotmd a table with a man or you sit down and eat lunch with & raan, you begin to midgrstarid his point of view and you can give and taks. Something' like that was going on over th© years. I think that'® what's happened now. They «r# getting along- much better. Shey*** got a long w«^ to? go jwt, l»xt they are getting nl©ag woeii better thwi th@j ©'^r theo^ht they ©said get along* They set up a Labor Relations Defjartsient, aud, definitely, 1 always felt ss X oarae to knew those early men 1ft later relations (sasa© of them that are still there) that they haw changed their -36- I attitudes a great dual* tb«j have laaroed a lot aiae« tbost days. There wer© no top snon, I'laey were wen that wers out in the plant ©pelting. Of eoar*«# I did knew Jack Blott T«ry u«ll* I© "Is the - lies coach at the University of Michigan now. He was mm of the sen Harry Bennett (he sesaed to have a great i^roalivity for athletes) brought In* Jack Blott has bean coach at Wesley&a and a graduate of . Michigan, of course. -Staling had pmtwa*fa&- Jack Blott to leave til® coaching business and «o«e into indutatr^/, which 1 always felt was un- fortunate for Jack Blott bscause sow he is Just line coach at Michigan, and he might hav© been .further along, I think* Jaek Blott for a while was head of labor relations. Mo, he wasn't really he&dj Harry I%ek was really main head. X never coiild quite understand that deal, because he waa still district salas ma** agsr for this area but was also handling laoor relations. Jaek Blott was wcwkihf fm Mm. Tkmm wms -v«ry d«flaltaly a fwdi»g on agr port th»t# wlill* they were working with the union, there was al'M^s a question to see who could: i*at .the oth@r« I*«ug>gxMM> that i« tra® tatey bat I think it is n»«ri.y as t3№# as it was than," 3tou had t^o v«ry »tr tight control, Thi® wm mlj ia *4l and *42t and «p uutil »45 was ia absolute control. -37- two young wen in labor relations verkwft with, the employment office with AvmlA Miller, and also with the felted States issployraent Office, The United States Itaployaeat mm. was eontiaually In our 'Offices, practically ©very day, beeaus® we were hiring in :Stieh great .{paatity. I aean th« USES. ?h@y helped place men, but were superfluoaa in my -estimation* ;titey yore in on the discharge of iadlTid»sls» fh«y wsaM corse to w a number of tirass vith problems that were arising over in 'the plant* they vwre r®p«i^s#Btfttii»# ®f the Alveraft Building, 3li«y would cosse to »a many times when som&bodj was being fired over there, and ask my help to see If the thing, from our-point of vi©w, was a Just situation or what the matter was at ham®. That Is wh©r© w® began our .first contact with the union. Latterly, they began to have s«# trust -and ooaffideuiee i» ut« pro^aKly in m intifitoally to start with, vhieh $em tpm there i^» Sossetlmae their protest against a diacharg© of am employee would be «ff®eti"r«| V& »y qtilte ©ffeetivB, not always so,, bat they war® pretty fair. As I .«ays I think they w«r« a»ffl«»lJ^ go^ b&fn* Kfail© they umare wc^kicg f«»r the union* oaiist&lsatsly sot they were pretty fair. As sooeon© aaisi, "If Mr. F I am not sure, bat Itoellr*® «o# fbat t»8 th#ir answsr to ^» Ford Service Department» m» far a# h«viag Marry Haiawstt1® a»u sprwi throt^hcnft the j&a&t, fo w^ tocwl#df©» I vawMnH aaj that int^-fered with Besnett's »yst«« of getting all the inforaationftp©« th« tarioas -39- d»parta«Btsf iMMttiuw he e®rri«l on another prlwfce payroll* sarTtce raen, ao-oalled, were not on hie private payroll and were aot veorkiijg iirectly for him,. !&® other wan I*a talking about that mm m his payroll mm mm that soteody IOMTW. la »a»y ease»f 1*# aaj- cama into th© plant or reported in from the outside. That xmlt functioned right up-until tha mi utMW* %» B®»s®tt l»ft. Pearl Harbor forced to« issue and accelerated tha pace of the building of Willow Mm, tha salting of bombers, the pace -of th© Airsrmft iulMiag, and the dirseter job at Higfal««i Park, and other wur contrast® they had* fetiimlly, fmx-1 Harbor the- pae» of that wry r&pldly* [ - :fhe ody thing i Itaoni' in r®g»«l t© BwBnett*ii iat®r®st ' " in Fearl Harbor as & political issu© rathsr than as one directly affooting the industrial policy was that in 1942, suddenly there was brought to raj office, Gansral Short who was in command of the Array at Pearl Jiarbor. 8® mam into Sociological absolutely anheraldsd, unknown to me, and started to work with ®e and was with aa approx- imately two or thre@ laonths. As 1 tUKiarstand it, he was then trans- ferred to the Traffic Department and sent later to Houston, ?#«ia* Whw^ fl#n®ral Short is nmtp If« ^st s«r«* %«th®r or not i he Is working for the Company, I don't know* Mr. ford wm mry much opposed, to the policies of Hooawvelt. -40- , h® vas twy fond of IdAG&orgft @M had hia working at MiUow Ran. Seemingly, it was barry Bennett's Idea to get as ^my key p©o- pl« working for Ma as possible, people h« thought fat® esttM ip»«. Wither as in Qtaer&l Short** mm they wanted to gl*# bin & j#b J«at to try to • embarrass the «3»inlstriitloiif or whether it-was Jiast eat of a fettling of kindnasa toward General. Short, or to us© MA, it might ham b«©Q a combination of all three, Itot was, so much the osse in variotss places in the Gorapany» arid in Sociological in particular, that - psopls would be Mat to: t^ with m qi]«IlfieatioiMi %*ataoev«r' far tlm- insp»etors., wax ^o toi btvn uadnr iwiietasftt. fh@y had a groat tiaw hmm tn Dttroit «rltfa th# regime, whsre the grand jury indicted a number of people including the mayor sad aant a lot of tbwa to jail. Sens of the- police inspectors, for esBinple, who had bsen under indictment * and had a possible sentence imaging m*r then* w«r« brGK^tt .in. 1 ^d on* wrkiag Jtor w»# 1 had to git® these mm a&i 3©n@ral Short work I thought they could•do. X had to ssaks us© of them or try to find something for the® to do. & som© caaes it waa almost an tepossibilitj. For example, General Short w» working with these mtt who had credit problems for a while, As 1 say,.1 didn't have him very long, I would t&ke bin out with is if ! was going to ¥lllow 9m or had soiiiethiKg I thought he would b© interested in. It was tli® waa along* ao to speak, in this- pwtiGtijUr It was a private W'PA, tasking work for these people and . finding scmathing far them to do — at least* giving the appemranee to the outside vorld that they were busy. AetaaHy, they wares *t amtri.Bg mj really useful purpose idiatsoefer* As far as operations were concerned, th# change in *45 affected n® for the better. Q£ course, most of f45 was & chaotic time, because they were trying to do so sany things at one®. The change suddenly eaae around September 29» 1945. fattirally* for a few days there wasn't much impact. In the first place, the Sociological Department came under the Employment Department, so that technically, even though I had been running the departsseat nyself, it they had carried out their lines of authority correctly, 1 would have be&n undor the eaployaent B&n&ger at that tlrae, I am talking mm up tsntil '45, when the change took place. .When the e&uige did take plmm* m®& Mr* 'MJHer idio-liad been the employment manager went out, Dick Cimpna eaise in and was mads employment manager. For three or fotu* months or more, X had a department under the employment office, so I was really working for Dick Chapean, I had come to know him previously baeause he had been one of the ex-FBI men who had been brought in by Mr. Bugas and dis- tributed around prior to the big change. I had coae to know Mr. Bugas to soms degree* I had cose to know him well enough so that he called me by my aieknasse, eto. -42- that v«y \ip ha& JteBJjjf «»ch other, so to sp@ak, «od be te#w I was there and would sail «• mwty once in e while on seme problem he had vhen he thought I eould h@lp his oat, 1 had eons to know sorse psople who were ocsaaing up in tb© n«w regime, so to «po«k» mm of .whoa was Mr, Bennett's right^waid man, Dick Chapsan. I caffio to know Dick, and he earas to know me, and our relation- j ship was trwy flne# M© w»i#r»too thy®o or four »o»tte» tmtiX thty l»fMi to ditrld® thing® up iiff«p«ntlyt X was working for Dick Gh&ixmn who became the 9?aploym©nt manager. He is a lawymr la th» c«mp©a#atlo» divisioiif a fmef fine .f«H©w. I v#at -to Dick after a, veek or so and asked hits what he thought the score vas be- cause, naturally, I MAS somewhat nervouaj I knew h©ads war® falling all over the place and I wondered just what the situation was going to be. Chapman told m& that I had nothing to worry about, that I should just sit tight aid carry OR. He was sure everything was going to b® all right. 1!@ and & 1MB tgr the nmm &i Sob Rosss had sot up sort of ft& offlo* over to tfc» AtolaistimtiTO Ittilitng• to fa«t# «ft«r a fw &ya, they were in the office Mr. Bennett used to occupy, X foraed a habit of going back and forth with certain things I had to get clearance on, sam policies or what Bat© you. I had to find oat what they waat«4 done. Tfa«s»© vas no fona&i organisation or aAaiaistx-att^e svtup at -43- thia tlTfl©, W@ wop® operating io a pmr men and ware trying to find SM ama-e# of authority or a person to whoa I was sup- posed to- report« That went on probably for & month or six weeks. Then Mr. Miller, who had hmn the eraployment manager, WAS let out, and this Mr, Chapman was made aaplopwnt manager. I started to work the same as I did before, only now I was working for Bick Chapman instead of Arnold Miller, who ]£& begn employment manager. During this* I oata't mj I waa reporting to MO2«r still, in addition to Gta&pwm and Boss. Theoretically he was wy boss praetteally, »% b©c«.ai» h« w»s so up In the »ir# h» didaH what wag ^>tof oa* Xoa coaliB*t g«t ^pery B»eh '•• aatlftftot ion s«t of hiia anj-vay, even if I would haws to ask hto for certain things. That went along for a month or six weeks, and then they appointed Chapman. % will say that was the isiddls of Novt«mber or th« flr#t; of B@a«§b*r# Jbet «Mtt on until- s«» tJta© in Janwry or ' Febnsary of ths new year* They than set up what earn® to be known as the i&aployee Services Department. That was sot the mam of It at th© 3ta.rtj it had some other naae. Bob Koas was eventually pit in charge of it. Then I caiae under It and b®caise a section of. the Snployea Services Dejmrtiaent vhleb eonaiitftd of tb« Hedlxml ^^rtment, C«p«s8fttioBf fmmiiQwmt Hecreation, and Sociological Departments. For the first tin®* v® -44- had ma organisation with lines of authority, beginning in January, 1948 • There WAS as attempt now to expand our functions. The Moment Mr, Ross oasse into the picture, which was about the middle of. J&uary, their told ®e they wanted ma to set the dspartiasnt up and make it stand for something, andtteJc* it the best department I knew how to aalee It. They wanted it to ftmotioKt ani 'fanetion efficiently* they gave as authority, because I had lost some people, to do ny ovm hiring, choose my own personnel, which 1 began to do. That spring, I proh&blj hired four or five wore p»©pi.e mwe m p>ri@d ©f four or five sooths. Sat is the «ay it M#35t on. I got these people by going to th# various heads of social agencies aiwt finding the type of parson I wanted. We dtdn*t waat m typical social worker. That ms 0ttt. We ^M wa^t ft person who had been trained in social work, smd ©specially if we could find then it* . industrial sociology. There wore darned few of thess. They ars still h«rd to fiat, that wtt'th* ty^ii "of pwmm w® were 1O@WJ^ for. - I . was able to find on© or two of then. Of eoursa, 1 did have to work along with &m& of the people I had. We began to have regular staff meetings, tryisg to put ©very- body on their toes, and hoist up th© morale and. whole standfird. Ve tried to p»t ft poliey established too, Becaus© of the rapid changes? we really :dl4»*t hmm an •45. Beb losa coul4n*t. I doa't think anybody, unless they hare gone through it... Xou get mn orgaaizatloa the S!H# of the Ford Motor Company that had b@#» operated the way It bad been operated, amazingly in- efficient (although it had the reputation of being efficient), and th@» •utideBly try to rebuild that organisation .t&m the bottom up»«.t Uiey haven *t finished it yet* as you toow. fhe proee** If still going on| it Is so colossal! 1 thought X kept aaktag r®pjrts# reports, napsrta, and hly aotoody ptid anj attention to them beeause they were too buey* was, after all, a frl^e aetitity. It would wait until the In the neastlae, w® did establish very close oo^taeta* M® v&m able to eatablish better eontaeta th®a. We hawl ve^ $los® oootaetg with Labor Relations and worked with Labor delations isuch more tiian w© had pr@vlmmlf, because they got a better1 e®libe:r of wmn in Labo? Ral«tio«®» It waa h«#Ied up propsrlj* Oar typ# of work, the work the dep&rt»©nt was doing, did not otoaag© too wmh.. The.type of work# geaemUy speakinff rtaiaiiied the We tried to hold boapitalisattoo 4aw»« We tried to be careful than we had bmti ia %h» past aa to who we gave that to (if you. want to call, it that) or uta we did that for. I dton>t think o«r work. Increased, because our oaae load., to use ftoeiajl¥or k t©rainolofyt »aa pretty hea^f aoyway* We in@r«a»®d the staff and had them do a mote- thorough Job on each ease, I have felt, and I think the Company feels mvt that a mistake was wide in abolishing the department$ because I think; it had a very definite j»l&se there under proper conditions and with th® proper staff* An Interesting development caiae about, starting in *44, We were working 'gfrj elo»ely and hud a wry good working relationship with the union — as far as we could go. X 'had & working arrangement wher« it reached the point that I eoald piek wp the telephone, and call up union officials, and talk to them about & case and know that I would receive their help and background. They were beginning to trust us. They wore beginning to lose that suspicion that we were an . investigating department connected with the old-tiiae Service Depart- ment, where we were out to get them. Me had established a very fine liaison with them, In ad- dition to the liaison with the labor union, this was also the point where we started referrals with other social agami**, fhis wa« to the »|a?|jig of f46. 1® the meantime, either I or someone 1 asked went around to the various social agencies and sat down with their- heads- and told them what we were trying to do and how we were trying to operate. Me gained their confidence, and they knew we were anxious to be of assis- tance to them, and we wanted them to be of assistance to us. -47* W© told them we- weren't trying to i»t«rf®r@ with the personal lives of men. That had been the great trouble previously? t!u» Sociological Bepartaitnt., with the backing sf the Cettpany, 4**** • ruthlessly: w#at in taaA laid douft th« law, V® were no longw doing . that. W« were trying to tellft taan w© were only there to help him. We weren't going to interfere with his personal life is any wayj that was his life to' live. We were only there to be of assistance and help to him. We told the social agencies exactly vhat ow setup was, that we intended to refer many cases to the®. for ®m№pl%-t № we got a ca3e of e. man and his wife not getting along, that was not dor job. The only place where we enterad into the picture was if It wm affecting the taan's work and causing absenteeism, inefficiency, or ' qBarrel8©«@nesi, or if Sriak was aff©sting bis vmtk* ^«a ws %tml4. refer a case like that. It' was -not our job to handle it. We might call that man in. . Labor Sedations night send that man to us. : We'd try to find out what w© thought the trouble was, and t&tn «©•€ notify the family •S«nriQ® Soeisty (iftilehp in if opinion, is one of the boat social agencies) about our findings cm these people, and ask them to get into the picture to see what they could do. Of course, the union was strong for that. That is one of tha reasons why the union was co-operative. I began to tall th® union we weren't going to interfere with men's llvea. That was not ©ar job» W# w@r® there for one purpose, to be of help In the areas we eottl in 1945 # Mr* imgas called »® one day and said he had b@©a asked by the mayor to serve on a cosamittee of one hundred the aayor was going to appoint, to establish in Detroit a Detroit Goandttse. ©» the education and control of aloehollaau' It is au ©trtgrowth of -the Tale School of Alcoholic Study. The Amsrican Gonsaittee has head- quarters i» Sow ttak* Of course, w© had A great problem of alcoholism. X got into that pretty hemvUyj and w&a prt on the permasent coualtttra and . was responsible for setting vp this pre»»t elinie th®y htfre la Detroit for the eontrol of al0oh#li«» the labor relations people trot&d notify w about- in aleoholio, and through my contacts with this coraiaittee and Alcoholics Anojojrraous, we found there were (I had lists of th@m) many,raany men in the plant who were members of Alcoholics Anonymous and b&& been cured. W© would get these sen in touch with the alcoholic problem. I think we were quite successful in many instances in getting mm straightened tot. We would call the alcoholic in, and X would sit down and talk to hi». Fro» then on, we would a«e what w# aould work out for Mm. By letting the other men in the plant, these various coramittQes, help out- aide carrying the load, there was no personal Interference as far as the department was concerned. That vm what w® were trying to establish. -49- ¥h«a we felt we did oo«e into the pletar®, we were behind the ae#n«#* Somebody #lse would do the work* B®3id#s haadiag the referral casee, our department »tH3, had all the eaans of the debts, th» credit protal**, whieh wu * mvy big problem, W« still had the hoapltalisfttiea prdblea too, ¥@ mil sorts «f therf.eoh.oli© pr©bl«i 8 whi«h w@ girt Sat© in the Instance »a4 th«n r«f^T«d» Our Job was becoming^ arid would have becojsQ, more and wmm a eleering house wh@r# refenrals mvM be nade to the toast of oar to the right agtaey. M« were the lltlatm gp«»# fsr th« (km* to pat the p«opl# in th® right spot for halp. M tlia gsantlm* I bad become the liaison max for th© Company, fro© th© highast officials on down. If they needed to get in the hospital quickly, th©y usually called rae, and X gat them in* that was part of my extra-curricular activity for the Ford Motiw Gewpony* The Sociological i)©part.«@nt, as constituted from the tim© of the change In '45, operated until the first of September, 1948. leading vtp to th« elo»isg m& of the S«si#l^leftl B®p»ta»ntt thmm mm an intimation for about tight or ten months previously that had worried a« ifltry wmh$ because they began to talk about edit. Of course, they did spend tresendoua mxm of sooey ther© at firat} with the mm d&xl cosing tn. Ford, for inst&ijo©, set up this elaborate training i#^rt^at whieh was a regular uniirwrsity with -50- th« asm vho in »QM down at Wayna UmiTersity, Mr, f©H®y or they had almost 300 p©epl« in training — a regular wrsity, a college faculty. It was terrific! Then they ©at that all out. That had grown by leaps and bounds, aadi It Just got away from th«» . "Oaen bisgoJ they jwrt eat that down, I think they got rid of alnost 2CW in a vwry abort spas© of tls»» ffc» first thing, 1 wowld say, was this terrific perti^ of expansion, then slowly analyzing vlmt bad been done ud then start Ing to chop It *BA tria it off agato. Cte d«partn«at wa» on® of thos® they aaasM«red cost-iri»® dld»»t justify its ai*©, «nd that wa® th« tiltlmts tbii^. 1 talked to №*, 3u;:aa about it when it erase to the final showdown, and Mr. Bugas said, "We feel the union has always boen down on the Sociological Efepsrtsaat." I tried to show him that that had boen killed, that that vas no lo^«r trws. ff0f cows©,* 1 said, *I know tlasy still say that, ^ey aay #oe thing of • on© sort out of on* side of tt» mmkh aai mm owt of th« c«^i©r of the other* they 8^ it b®e«»set fimdiMei»tallyt they know w# staiwi l»t¥eea then aad the »®n» W«:ar« the one ergaalsii- tlon that does, for that reason, they would like to see it don® away with. Th«y ©an*t say we don't eo-opemte with thenit «»d that th@y don't depend upon us for help, advice and assistance, because they were In mat officas aid they vwm sailing us continuously, every day about probims, and w#r© working with »® in the greatest harmony.11 -51- I knew fimdaawntally, naturally» they didn't like it. Frankly* 2 was never able to find out where the feeling to termi- nate the Sociological Department originated, Whether it was a feeling of top nai^e&ent's part — asybe Henry9 beoattd« of the long history of the Sociological prior to bis earning,in . (in the years gone by, it didn't have a good reptitation) — whether that played any part in 1% or not* I don't loom, I think at that paytieafltaur tine, they rather felt that they had oveswpandBil, as I said, they Here cutting down, and that aeemed raaybe a good place to out off & frill* How much the Tarioua Influences had to do in playing upon it, I doutt k»o». 4s Mfc. Bw^a» ©pressed it to m®» it was pu'tially beo*tts« of the wey they vere cutting damn all over*. Bat first «ad foremost, they felt that the taaion «as «g«ia®t it# As 1 said befor®,. I kno^ th« «nion is agaittst.it fisBMtaentsuOty. For that reasoa, I don't thisk we should hav® otit it out* As I 'understood it, from tcdkiag to №•« B^aa about it at the time it happened, the top brass, so to speak^ felt there wa# no further need for the Sooiologioal De|>arteent with the elaborate organisations they had set up, the new personnel policies In labor Relations, and an. organization they have out in the plant vhloh is aoapoeed of «en who are sort of industrial counselors, Utat organisation haww has nothing to do vith .the ]^>loye« Services Depart»«nt, It is entirely separate, but a part of Industrial Halations, -52- it did not supersede the funotions of th© Soeiologieal Department* beoa«is« that plant organisation started before they closed ap the daparttatnt, perhaps ftyea r before* that organisation performed one of the functions w© had don©, although I think It ©TOM perfof® them better fro® that angle* b©e&tt» the «©n were right out in th© plant. I had proposed a eon.pl© of years previously that we follow the mm line of the Hawthorne plant of Western Meetrie in Chie&go. They have regular counselors out in the plant, using the tndlreet counseling method, they haw been doing it for years, and feel it has been quite sueeessful* I went to Chicago on© tiae and aade qoite a study of it. I stayed there with them two or throe days, just observing what they mam ©oing» For quite a while, Me* Bi^as was "^©ry »aeh Interested in th® idea, but due to the fast of this tremendous upheaval, as I see it, and the changes taking plae« so rapidly, nothing was e'mr don© about it* % feeling about the department was this* oar . I had ocme to believe and to feel, and 1 still think X tm eorreet, yjm. |£ jbjg, (or shmild have beeni it nevw was for eerfcuin reasons) the point of contact, to b# the nouthpleee of th© C«ipmy as far as the troubles and trials and tribulation* of their sen were In other words, it was to be a department where sen could -53- blow off their troubles without any feeling that any punitive neastxre* would be tak«$ against theft} that they eould COB© t© us; that oar records of .sea w#» ateolmt«ly Inviolate} that they ver® »©t to b® open to labor Halationsf that ©wr records should b® primt« peraoanel records between «s mad the aa&} that h® could oove if h« had family troubles| if he wanted,. he could cosa© to us and blow off about his foreman. la other word«» it w&s to b© * safety •WRIV® wh«r« he could feel he oould go with any ktai of a problem he might have, talk about. it and get It off Ma eh»stf a psyehiatrie catiar8ia# 1 felt that was the great fiasetioa v« eotald perf@^# 1 f#lt Labor Btelationa eoald&H do it becatiaa labor 'R»latloas «l«o 'hai th« .ftaietioa of firing nen« I still maintain if a aan teows that' th# labor iielations man In his particular part of the plant has the power to fir® h.tot ho isn't going to be as free with that wan as h« ia gotag to be with sossebody he toons has mm power to fir© hiw, and also knows that th© person to vhmt he ia talking is going to^ teep his troobjUNi.lfi his head and be absolutely confidential. That, I bellav©, ia the great funetioa w» sh.«3pLd pwfora, I still believe the Qompauj mada a mistake, because when they elosed out Soeiologleal in the fall of *4S» I felt (and 1 told Mr. Bogas #o) that they «er« playlag into the hands of th« iffiioB, beeatwe the mtm no long#r had this departaamt to go to* &®y ©atwmlly would ,go to the «nlon» because they vouldpi*t go to tabor Halation* with their probleaa. -54. There were certain rea-sons which prevented ay feeling about the department from developing, or this ideal situation from developing. One was that w® never had the time because there was only a natter of, you sight say, three years* We never had the tlae to complete it or bring it to perfection because everything wa« changing so rapidly| new departments were continually being created. We had a very fin© working art^gMfeofe. with I*abor lelations, because you can talc© Clarence Donovan &»d Mite QvamSjagst head of I*bor HelatloBS (of course it is all split up now, tout I'm talking &bw& two or three y@ars mgo) *ad they ae&sed what w» were trying- to do and were very fin® about it. So wasp of the labor Relations sen wer© new at the job and were inclined to b® highhanded la their nethods, and thare was no policy aet above to give m the authority to Implement what I felt we should be- doing. It had to be done on more or less a personality batls, trying to do it tfa® be»t way you kaew how, under llnitsd condition*. Qf course, we had the problem, which had to be lieted, of getting rid of the people we had that were inefficient* Ion can't be ruthless about that, they didnft want as to be apathies® about it. We had, certain people who had been there a long tine, and that we had to try to change and had been trying to change. ©v«r a period of tine. Son© you, could change to a certain degree; others you could . never change. -56- that pspoblea „ I mm finally able to let BO®@ of those people go without being ruthless or hard«boll@d or arbitrary about It* I began to get sotm peopl© i% few or- fiv© I had talked to, and outllBeu just what X thought ©or function was, so those people ware coning la with that lien. Before it rttoiod the point I wanted £t to, and b#for© I ! eo«M g«fc the top «O!M3.-QII to s#t a pcfl.1^ (I don't bias* than for It, It was just one of thoaa situations), things ware changing so rapidly and vsre 90 cimotio that uo&ody knew. In a^ 9plM«y that is y^ere th© blftsdtr was made, ITisj mov®d too fast, Th© Sociologicfil Dapartjaent operated until the first &£ Svptmberp 194B* V9 found jobs for most of the people va ted is the -57- at all, F«r Inataaee (here is vham I think that sitnatiHB In parhapa unfair to the »®fi}# hare is sana poor Joe owl :1a the plant who is up against It, but ho has so way of kaowing such a thing Is possible. 'The salary personnel take an occasional wage assignment for hospitaliaation. The saae applies to the ei»ploym©nt office. There axe a eottple of people in a oootiOR of th» i^^Lfl^»»t offie@ that d® that kiacl of vorkf bat tlwy havt a© ttweh a«oti A» I t№&tmtm& it (yoa h««3P all sorts of stori®*, aad 1 • dsn't know t&@th®r atqHMd^r Tsomm «a«etly th« ti?«th}# M«?ry i®»»@tt h«d b@en in the Savy. I doo't belies© he w«*k^ fur Ford Motor p-ior to WrarM Mar I. %«n he came ^«k fr« World Mar I, I think h© was hired by aoffieou®, X bellere at Highland Fark. I am not sure whethet- it was the Service Bopartsent as then constituted. That I do not know. I know that fwry shortly thereafter, h© was transferred to the Rouge. Of course» the Bouge grew very slowly to.th e begtantng, Ttm story, as 1 get it, goes aowethisg like this. Mr, ford ran i»t.o IJarry Be&nett tn the Bougt area,* Sonethlng bai not be#o done that Mr. Ford wanted doa»» H© saw thia Mm. (I think h® waa on plant protection then.} He spoke to him and asked Mm If he w&alA talc* car® of it* Vhm he mm® the. next day the job was «!©»©# Pratt ttoen on, aoeordiag to »y infon^wts, that was th« begioning' of the aasoeiatlan betweett №•* Ford aasl tfe1. Bea&ett* H® was very ameh elated and very maoh itsipr«ssed lay the way this partis- ular ii^ividtal had acted cm his suggestion. Southing vm &®m' cwernight that h© wanted doue» Vh»n the C<»pa8^ was h«viag financial difficulties in 1921, th«r» ar« stories that Baaaett »^g©at«d the pOLaa idiereljgr Mr* ^erd had been able to sake up all the stock into ears and send theis out to the dealers on sight drafts, and then sell all the laatsrials la the mrlona connisiary »tors«» that story does&H aovoct r#as -59- think he attained hiss aminotuse, so to apeak, until about 1930 or *31* coming with the kidnaping scare. . •• I think it was th#n that Map. Ford.began to giv® him -so much power. I donH know if th© kidnaping sear© was an actual threat or more a manufactured one, to allow the impression of protection. Talking from hearsay with people who were la the affair at the time (which I was not), th©y said Harry Bennett guaranteed Kr. Ford h* would protect those ehildren if he would allow hi» to work his own way, 'AM 1 anderstand It, that is th® beginning of Harry Bennett's contacting the trndervorld, so to speak, in order to build up an organi- zation to do that thing, filer® are many storlea about his relation with the tmderworld and the type of people h* had working in th© Ford Service Dapartiaent, ©specially daring th© thirties and forties. Of ooars«» those thing® eas b® exaggerated, because h« sad s© many peopl® working for him that no on© &mt saw,, I would ssyf for instance, ,as w observation as far as th« Serrte® Itepartiwnt was eon- esrned, he had a lot of pltig-.'uglies working for hia, &©r© is no question about that. fh#y were filled with a-x-priz® fighters, a gr»at nany of thew, fhat was on® thing h« aettually had. I dottbt if he had any gangsters, so-called gangsters9 working for him in th« Service B©part»»nt. H@ .also had working for him m. largs group of investigators who were never seen in the plant* 1 can't say and I don't know who -60- •ooald, TOS1«BS so9i© of those p©opl© Goxsld talk; fox* easaqal®, Brady* who had betes an ex-fighter and also a fight promoter, s#e»©dl to be, from j§y observation* bis kingpin for these oataid® contacts. He had his own private payroll, as I am told, with a small pay of fie® down the ball in the baseaent somewhere* and cart*. blanche to draw what raoney he wanted, so BO on© knew vho was on that payroll, ;I 4o know h« had a wmboe of B#B oa his payrcAl that hardly e^«r showed tfe»ir faees in the Itouge. : Here is a atrang© bit. I moved into the Ford Foiindation in 1940. That Is aot the copr»©t mam, for it, but that l@ what awryoo* calls it, Wien I lovii in there,, of course, the place had be®» only open' about six months, and my vife and I ho& an ajmrtaent there, They w«p« jtwt begJtotog to develop the ViUag* «P®&» that is, the store area. Tb# stores worenH aH open ther»# b«fc i^pttaira they had a dentist In the dentist suite, and also a doe-tor. I don't remember who the M.D, was, but X do renenber the dentist. This story cars® out .latex* wheB the Hrevolution" took place, low- what Mr. Bennett*© coaaeetion was with thi« dentist, I. 4@ not • know, and nobody else aeenss to know. It was found out that this dentist, who had a pmetiee and had hia offloe ia the Fso^ Foundation BaHding there,, V&B O» the private payroll of .UP, Btenctt* What his connection was or why, 1 do not know, bub I know that is a fact. It would be marvelous, if it would be possible, to have an •61- Interview with this raan Brady if he wmild talk. 1 doa't -know he ls» Bennett*s organisation was nor© or loss widespread, so that he had an opportunity to. ftoal tha pals© throughout tfaa Company by his inmstlfatoaps. I think ha tod thws to rnmry plant la tb# country, from coast to.coast* I an aura* A man told sa — qulta a pro»l»©ttt nan tn tttm fa#r® ani In the -state — fway baok 1» 19^5, he satd, *fhat ®an la on© of the »ost -pavmrfvl m® In the eoaatry, H« vl»lda aa imiohi po*w@r as J» Mgar Hoover, through Ills undercover operations and the trsmendous staff of mm M«pklag cllreetly for ht» wh© ara tlad to him, Of course thay hai» to ba loyal, b»ea^i® that1* tk#ir teefti sad b«fctar»* ,1 a» awre a graat wany mm were titirt «b8» th« *rv»olwtioa* took pl«o© (th© ohang© took piae«) in the Bs«ge, fbey war© |j»o©aat parties, but in seme way or another had b©en sucked Into that orbit and had done things that were fjrob&bly dishonest. They had to do that, or it waa thalr j®b# It la mry easy to say a man staaMaH 4& it9 bat 'if- a. «an gata Into a altttatioo and Me has a f*miiyt it is f@ry ©asy to wndsrstarad bis aotite. H© had to do s§a»thii3g to wdjetaia M« J®b, above all, I know there was a lot of that. I an sure tfaare was, frcaa ^ wad«ratandlagf Basnatt aod- C&aorXaa !• always b«en en«ai«a ftro« tba start. &ey vara both -62- for power. Tfa@y wore both the san# type of men, that rough, kmo&k--* m~&txnt, dreg~fest*out type of vmn, I have been toM Igr nuserous people about the knockdown, drag-out fights they would have In the office of one or the other tlm after tine* Of course, Bennett was a little man but had been quite & fighter. ' H© waa the type who was Joat as limbS.® to get the first puneh la us to look at you. ftuure «»» a© fooling with hi«» I don't know the Ins and outa of Sorenaen'a leaving the .la *43« I ©sly taww fro« i*at I aa told that tb«y had. b®«a for years, and it was a natter of ti»© wfoo woald go. I i • ' •' • think Sorena@B perhaps becauae of the Willow Ban situation, as 1 understand it, was getting too big for his breeches. Be was starting to dictate a little too mush, mm to Mr. Ford. Th» gossip I got v&» that Mr. ford g»m the word to Mr. Bennett to get rid of isoranssn. He was getting too big for hte to handle. : When I came Into tha Sooiotogioal D©|mrtm#Rt In 1940, all the thinga they now call Industrial Relations wer© under Mr. Bennett, which ms&nt that all employment was uaoltr Mr. Bennett. Th# Soelologlcal Otpfft^nt was pert of employment, the payroll was undar i-^r. Bennett; thm entire payroll cam© under his control. The Service Bepartaent, »» '^y called it %hmt m& also under hl# control. Those were the major things.^^reotly wider Ms control, although Indirectly lie controlled because ffiggfflf$XMtewa s afraid of Mm, The say-ao about production was strictly under Sorensen. 1 don*t believe B®«n©tt *wr attempted to i«t«rf®r© with that, because I think he was smart enough to realise he didnH know anything about it* So many key places, even though It had to do with produc- tion, were seemingly staffed by Ms w»B| for example, the tool room that bought and handled all tools, I know the man in there was one of his mm, H© had key j»rsoan»l throughout ths plant. As I get the picture, son® of the top xaen eoiild sake & Move without Mr. Bennett knowing about it. He ted it nailed down that closely. One of the people nest clo#«ly *»0oei«t«d with Mr* as far aa X could determine, was this man Sradj that 1 apoke of. Stan Fay was fata secx«tM?y, Hairy Ma^fc VM in ebarg® of s«le# the Dearborn district. th%r» were probably others. Bay Rausch was definitely his man, I am swm of that, although Hauach was working for Sorea8#n« There you as© again, when Sorensen wm out, Bausch stepped v 8 into his job, S^Cft « » plae% I as suam9 i^tra fe@ tad 0Aeed a was ia the right spot* Jtttt vtwm th» right a«»at case, fa# could ^•o^ into that fi«ld, datiKi4« of that. 1 dot^t taaaw yio •Is© ir«r* his lleutenasts. He tardoubtecily had waxtj others. Is his teaediate office, Stanley Fay was his secretary. That was all h® had. He had no stenographic secretary. I don't think he ever vrote any letter**- 8© »*de all personal eontaetav Again- it is hearsay on wj part* bat I understand from various people that they had a terrible tise finding any records whatsoever that he had kept. Maybe he destroysd & lot of thesa. I know Mr. Brady had a file, because 1 have seen him open it. He had an office outside Stan Fay1a office. When I was In there waiting for soroething, 1 hatm soen him open that file tad papers ©at of it. Outside of that,*I donH ta©*r tiliether tfae WES able to find the personal jmyroll files of Mr, Bennett. I don't know vtetbmr they were destroyed, but 1 tew a suspicioa they. never found them, - They sight have b@«n btjmed. X asm into the piot\ar@ late, and what I kiim was isostly what I hsard In regard to the ford Motor Compaisj us rsp*esexit©d V Harry Bennett's ideas on the political aide of Michigan and Dearborn's life, 1 couldn't observe it. flMB»# liar this t#rrifle aowndel la '41 or '-42 owr the »u^«r of the chief of polios in Itearborn who bad bmm, undouotedly, one of Hurry Bennett1 a men. H© was shot and foond d#sd is Ms oar down iborse wsy. 1 don't think there is any doubt (although 1 have BO right to say this*to#eti««® 1 ®m*t pem® it) that i«rry Benoett WB3® *ad unaade ths mayors and chiefs of police of Dearborn. 1 think that -65- was, for a psrlod of yeara, bis heneita&nj I 4m*t think there is any quftstlon about that, On & wider scale in Michigan, Kim Sl&Ur v&m close to Bennett, There was one incident the Thursday before h® mm% out, and h© was gone by the following Monday, On that afternoon, when I cans down to see Stan Pay about something or other which is of no importance nou, he had been with Il» Sigler for an hour &nd a half, refusing to see anybody even though the roof was over bin*; Jtast what he was doing or what tha conversation w&s about, nobody will ever knov* Kipke vas thro-ugh by the titae I cams her9, He had given Kipke one of the limoh concessions, ke I understand it, they later had a falling out. Kipke sold out his eoBG©ssion and pulled away fro® tbe Goapasy e^pl#t®ly, Qrigiaiilly he hsi bmn gtm& » e -67- throughout the plant as an Incentive to keep things running on schedule* or whether it wm a driving fore©. Whether it nsaehed the &v«r&g# varkaa&j I don't taew, 'Of iicn&ree, In tbos© days b@foi?@ the mion ease ia» their praetlees were pretty ioogh and pretty ted. They would ley off men, for example, and whsrj they started to hire again, there was »o hiring back aeeording to seniority or anything. It mm the first man te&ek,: er the first aaa in Haw wooli get the job. % h© aight get the j©b back «gaio If he te®« the riffat people ®r if he had letters fros; sosie of the judges downtovm or police dejmrtB^nts. Iher© was,mo seniority at all, just a politics! type, pure sad simple. The Service Department was filled with ex-police inspectors and wen of that caliber. I had erne ex-polic© inspector working for n@ in the departtsent. That was all very bad. The union was long overdue; that strike was long overdue as far as 2 could deteriain©, considering the treatneat the i»opl«':r®e©iif»d, 1 think m®rym® In the Company was aware of the situation, that this pdlitieal pt%rcw»g« type of poeltiexi v*a being ©»rried »a* 1^ Iftrry Benmrtt* It WQ«M mmm that Ift1. ?«№fl «©«M Jwre to be aware of it to .£|fii degree. I don't s«9 hew he oould haw so far reaoved himself,.be so blind a© not to realize it to mm® degree. I hate to say that becausa in a lot of ways I was a, great admirer of th© old g»»tl«a&o* But like Marquis1 observations. It is paretty hard to reconcile &n actloa here mad an motion there, I think Maaeqtais1 book Is the best thing that haa b@« done on Mr. Ford to date beoaus* I think it is reasonably fair, Jh« others, tow, are just so »aafa whitewash! 4i»y don't mean M^thlag, I think Harquis admired Mr, Forf ®M I think lam is tptit* fair. . H« paa into aa tt iapaas® tlf#» IAW® b© f«lt %yb« this is Me. fosrd'a fault| I don't kaow, 'but I doa't waat «sqr part of it. I »«ot-t^ g*t osrt^.* I thick that was his attitude. 1 think lie was disillusioned. IK other words (as ho oalled %>, Ford in his book), on© chapter was light ant %h® other chapter' was shadow, the two sides that he simMn't reconcile,, II© was a baffling personality all the way round. I can't say I got any reflections of Sdael's interest 1B changing ths situation* t I think w» eaa fairly flMQrth* t Benmtt hsd the d«l«p« ships, in addition to this job p&t««iag#» idwrtt-by h© ooadd arrange for peapl« in th*i yight spot. 1 doR*t thlflk tto«nr@ is «ay qutstton About it. 1 think that is why hs had Harry I'lack, ^ For some reason 07 other, X don't know why, Jack Davis had a falling out. Bonnett va® down on Jack Davis, probably beoaus® hk OCSUMBH vom hla» ao th@y r»leg*t«d hia to ths W«st Coast. He was out there in sose minor capacity. Ifeybe he had -69- enough Influence SSSg^itSi. to keep A job, otherwise fa© would have probably toe«n ©wk ooapletely. Bemuse iswwilately after th« ehang® took place, Jack Davis was recalled and then became vice-president and general sales manager — vice-president In charge of sales. 1 feel very strongly but I jffltffi. for instance, that ex- football players, easNteekey players received jobs. Bi«r® «r« t«o or three of then in town new. ifeytoe they are perfectly g«d and were justified In receiving than* but they got tt«§« thrcft^h Bsnnett's influence. Where I knov two or three, there mast hsT® be«n a lot of others. In addition to this dealership arrangesseGt where im could hand out dealerships and the job patronage» hs also had a political influence. I don't toew hem long Murahall had been vlth tli# Qmf pany. I guess It was for a long ttiae. Ifershall was kit ^politioal coetaet i»a fa* the eolorti v©t# In Detroit, 1 tiiiidc I*® wielded & trevendoaa Inflmwoee with the c©l«tMi va^ea in Detroit* ffcwe wn no eolorei votes in. Dearborn. Marshall was just the @atw type of mat as Harry Bensett, in hj»g, day. Ha tias A &i£H guy, but to was exactly the mam type as Barry Benastt, If a edo»i @m no^Li gtwn saagr b«efc talk la the employment office Cl have been told this over sod ovsr, so It must be tnw)f Marshall would take him oat 1B the back room somewhere ani give bin a working over, just the regular old polios method, sad -70- toe&t tli# v«ry last daylight® oat of him. I® ruled with a strong hand* 'Later, about the time I came into the picture, he had Willis Ward, who was quit© an athlete over at Michigan. Of course, Ward was working. X don't think Willis Ward was that type. Me was new and bad a more modern approach. HA was & lawyer in to«M. There Is no question that through Marshall, Bennett had a, great eoatroi who had eharg© of the lie#nse b№wamf registration barest*, pwapl® lite that* I could still go downtown and park rayea r in a police garage. 411 that sort of thing you ]i&d, to do because you never kaew what sort of a job you were going to Mm, mswi ual«8« fm had thoe«r contests, jr©« totjlctoH aeeomplitfe ao«« Jobs.. % point is that ha knew all those people. AH the juiges knew him. 1 don't »®an to pan all the judges, but they certainly laid tb©»selv@fl vide open by asking favors of Harry Bennett* wtxieh t!»y were eoniiBsalljr doing, awi giving ae letters diking that a certain ssan be given a job, etc, Harry Bennett would always ask for a quid pro quo. 1 take it that fa» would. I would consider this unusual in the operation of the Sociologies! fiepsrtneut • in any othmt eoiipaay. . A ysjpisr ease investigator would not handle it in the same waj. It might be valuable to a regalea? ease Isvafttigfttor to tow to®y ^opl@» It i& always VBlusble to know people b©csua© you can get ififorraatioti fastw? than fan coali oth^rwis®., I Mo«tW»ft say it voold b® n®e®«- sary or always adYisabls, l>ecause every tins you go to these people •— the recorder's court outfit and all tboM -—• f©r hmlp9 %h»y right mok @M waat help fro© y this period* %» SifteX Forf of th© Oosftpuay, As I nadewtani it, anything of great that k« tried to 4ot *he was preitj well e^Bded l^r larry B®nn®tt» I Haj?ry Sexmett ©sn?i«d owt !%•* Searjr Ford'e : Kow you take this situation cnit here, because it wi anal- ogous. Aeeardifig to th« st^^ I get4 I think th«t it is probably very accurate; Mr* Kdsel ford was very ssach interested in tit© Edison Institute. B© took a vital interest In it and spent a lot of tin* tbere* Bat every tine h« would try to do aonethisig* to pat i» the proper p®FB@mmlt to suggest a oiamtor probably* or saswtfaing anal- ogous to that, it was always stopped. It la a p&mHiM3? thing. I suppose it i» peeali&r to Hr. Ford and to m lot of fathers, who have mad© a great deal of ®on©y and fought their way to the top, to behave the mum way toward their SOBS as Mr, Ford did toward JS&sel* Be flixs allowed Sdsel to have isucli say-ao. Edsel would draw out of this picture and wouldn't cots© out here for months cm eat. Mr. Ford would go to Fred Black and say, "I wish yvu would try to get Idael Interested in the lastl- tuta." He seeiaed never to realize that M ^&s tbe one who was Mil* ing and stifltog his interest. H@ had a complete lack of understanding. I ion*t thtoik Jtm« Fortt m^®rst«»i imp $®n bt&Uet tfetna MP« ford did. ttrfji little toeidaat ooeoxred uhleh a«i« MI feel stro^ly that there was BO understanding on her part g£ her husband's part of their a@o, Th»y bad grawi a»ny trm hla ®r lie fpo« them. I hadn't hmn h@r@ bat four -or five sonths wh®a Bansoa eall©d »» aai told «© be felt ve afa©«M tteoept the eadhiMt tfe« «f« I«» R Hudeott Co^peiQr offered an «f MiAigaa ®s» Ottcmui** I m%&9 *A11 B right t b«№ y®» hai better talk to year graoiBothsr aburnt it* H.® said fa® woaM. B« did eventuftUjr* b«t «k@ didn't like it. -73- $to» earn ew her* the 4ey It tie* ©fflelaU^ ©j»»@ Jim Webber, the photographers* etc., were eemlag out here at twelve to take pi first of all, I thought she warn going to Ills it. She eald, ale#ly» Kr» Att«blt#. 1 thiJk tfcis is to st«®r har -«e^ fipo» tfa« awe i^&ro pt®tta?®s because X kneu abe woultto't lite them, \mt ahe saw tis«« 1 sould ««$ she was changing just as quick as you could snap your fingers. 3h© was V&TJ stubborn, She said, "Mr* Ablewhlt©, I d©n*t lik« it, it doMnH belong hw1®, I doa1* ws»% it &«^l*' : I trisd to say to h»rt *tit*. Womi$ I«a eo g3»i to «ee &»i«B take as interest in this situation, I think it is fiae that the boy is bsglttning to telce «a int««it iter®,11 ftet was *b® mrm« not® entirely* She itr?tri©diat®ly said that they knsu nothiag about artj knew nothing about it. Sh© said, "They get their idea of art ttii^ far e«rt«in thJU;^ l!r«w the loetoif®ll®rs,* Of course, .Sdsel ami th© Mmlmfmllmm ted tb«ir msmm homes together, olose tf each other. She was iog& bitt@ri I cmld mom the fseltryj of bitterness, almost, toward her own aoa, because of kia with the Boekefellivs. the r@&»an night be, I think, toeeaute they were alien to h®r thinking and to Ms thinking* I think that was It. Mrs. Ford waa a simple little fans girl until the day she died* with ao appre- ciation or understanding of f shall %№ say, the sophisticated lif# or a life fa* r«»©"№d £ra» anything «h« aaderatood •—<• tfe« aoadesiic lift, if y®» Mill, th« lif# ©f appr«slati« ©f fine things, She «l%rey» a^ljstftlaad h»f siaplleitf In a wy of lif« that neter ohafiged, Vth«n I*-d go &mv to 8«© btr9 I'ftlM^ft f@lt that b«r« «as tills Ifflaettse sstfttt (aot a gwwtt boai#t b«t still a great h&am® as @<»^ hawses algftt have b«©n), Mid si»*d be sitting tiiere in th« vlntertla« l^r the- firt» all by h«*«»lf« Th« fetttl«r». vltb .great pcwp and elrewssta»c«# woali uabey y©u iato th« ro Hr»» Ford toi T«ry little appraeiation for fis« thi^# A HUStl* She might lil» a idaataot j«»t as wall aa nh« vswild lite a beautiful pi»e« of fwmitiartt. 1 t«H that h»maae it pive ne aaother loi.ight into th« -75- relationship of the mother, as well as the father, toward their son. They never did londerstsM Ills artistic appreciation ftt all. They had no common ground of seating. 1 understand Bdael would get Bomsbodj m& her® who© he thoughtffiidit becom e interosted .la the plsoe and usayb© bgcosse a eamtor or director. Mr, ford would tak© lite out, and if to® ccwsldn't talk lnt«lltg#»tl;f about a piece ofreachinsry, h© was out| that was his erltsrlsB. c I thlafc this iyp# ftf i^fttl«»rtjip ©«s4^ wwf alto into the actual Company routine itself. 2 think It mt all part wad parcel of th© piatur®. That is jtiat on© facet of it, bat I think you can carry that same idea into every other field, th®r« «&s a ^©ap «£ p»o^L# that IPW7 &tioagjLy sttpp^rtsd ideaa as fax* as production and styling of mm cars w©r© i toat th«r« wt «»«tfa«p p*e^» that votald bnelc hls« On© of the men, who was hsad of G&t# 4, as th&j called it $M those days (that la the big gats on Miller Hosd), supported bis idoas. 'Ihere was another ram ^io \/ent out| there was a i^trad© of men who vent out of there about the tiraa ^isel died. X think they had all been supporters of Edsel. There v&r® three &t four of th©s that went outj th©j were big nsiaes, lisre was a period around '43 wfa«& mn went out, aad I tMnk they w«r© ati^jorters of Edsel. 1'hat is when Fred Black left also. I think there vm & mm -76- fey the tiaffl© of larry Sheldriek* efeief engineer, who went oat, I em pretty sure, although that is hazy in ay ralad BOW («QB» of these those things pass over you)? that I had heard he was a supporter of Edsel or S&ael was a supporter of h3»* whietee^w way you want to pat it* G^ course, Fred Black went out in '43 because they were out to get kirn* I can't remember any other natnes, although there roust hams been two or three more. After the Sosiological Departstent slosed^ I was in Salaried Fersonisel ttm the first ©f fietobsrappreaclaital y until late ia fewuary* 1949* there 1 -was icing the regular hirinf, eto. and thing that everybody else was doing, that 1ft» the work that the Salaried Personnel people woul How I happened to GOTS© here to- the Miaon Institute Museuta, I don't knm. Of eota**** I knew both Mr, aad 14m, ford-^aite well* I say quite wellf I didn't toow HPS# Ford liariJy at all prior to 194S* But in 194S» I lost 'ay wife, and Mrs* Ford -wrote »e a letter of e©»- dolence. 4s a. consequence of tiiat, I had teen over to see her mayb© four or five times from, the year previous, that is, 194B# Just what the Influancss were and why —- 1 know that lira. Ford was wry ouch upset by the way thlags were going here in the 'Maamm* Bb# dld&H feel they wtrs going the my they shottM go, She bad expressed it to m, but nothing had ever been said about my oesiag In here. In fact, 1 had so thought or Ideas about It whatsoever. Toward the and of January, 1949, S#« 8ag»s e»H#d •» QM morning and asked ae if I coiild come over to his office. This I did. He broke tbe news to ne that the iay before* the tm»t@@» 'lm& voted to '^£® m the direstap of th.© Mos««ii — no* the • VIH»g®» b«fe Just the Musmita, The Village vas imder the control of a man under Jfir, Bahlinger* That nwi on a Tirarsday, «Bi UP* Bagas said that Up. Cra% mated to see a@« I called !#.. Cr»ig rightftro» *tr » &tgas* • office «md went down to see Mm at two that afteroooti. The following week, abowt Tuesday or Wednesday, 1 started over her©. That's how quickly the thing came about. Thos© were the first intir^tiojis X had a^sttt it, iM to why lira* Ford felt tto Muaeiss waa being ran wrong, I eouMnH pat ay finger on it exactly, the way she expressed it, she didn't feel the polieies and ideals of Mr. Foni were being carried atrt. Although sh# didn't «^res® ittoy aentioaing neae»> 1 think it was the i^j^qxij?^^ here that she was worried about sore than anythteg else* &» felt that they «®re fftiltng to entryfl«t Mr« Fsrd's ii«wtLs and policies for the Museum. She- didnH express this feeling t&p the only, as she was concerned about the whole place saore or less* When 1 earn 1B the picture, I %tm fifes charge of just the -78- Museum and tithing else. I had nothing to do with the VU2ag« what- soever* Mrs, Port, as far as I soald see» was very mxcsfa in agrea&aafe with Mr. Dahlinger. 1 really don't know because I had nothing to do with It agpself„ $wu POKI *nd 1 had may disousslaas e©»@®i»iiiag tha ausetsa. She would come o-rer hare ©verj w«ek, She tod an active Interest Is the Muse\aa. That, as I discovered, was on© of the frustrations of the |ob| you had to &imm&« ®t«ry%hijag with h«p* Sl» wwi w»y pleasant and very nice to vork with. She would usually agi>«tt with you, but yarn had to )gj& xaxttl yoa had 4i»#tts-i«d it with her* Some- times it would be difficult because she -sight be away, t said ©very week she was here; maybe it was a couple of wgeks that would go toy baf «HP@ ahe eg»© la. In the luoantijse, aaythifig yo'-i wanted to do had to be held up, Io« eowldisH eta asgrthii^; until yowt had talked to h®r «bcwt it. For example, laat winter we opened this rousic instrument ioiiiblt down at the end of the hall. I had had that smaie ©atoibit ready, practioally rea^> to o^n i^ a year ago Mat January* Sins was fmy much interested is it and vas ajixious to have It done, but sh© wanted to s#e it, and thea she was taksn ill. I i*pt oa gettlog a®s«ag®s that she would b® o^»r. Finally I got desperate in the spring, about m jmr -ago last Boath, and hsA pictures taken of the eadiibit mod sm% oinsr to her* 1 thought sh© would lilt® tfaea atsS say* "that1* lovely,® Sba j§§J4 thej were lovely? in fact, ah* thought they w@pe iMMts&ifol «ad »&« liked tbeffl ver^ taach* Sh« s»M «it«-*4 be over to talk to a© about it, S©© what I Mean? loa just oowMn't 4© wqrtkti^. I'd aowd wm of th» «aH®y «^ilblts M^na^ «B4 got with It without dis«M«teg it with h®v, Ai^tfelag ti*t s@e» I h*d to go pretty si« with, for «w»pl@» tt# At that timty Mrs. ?«€ was th» only on« 1*» hsd th« final ®&y-#o In ragaM to the HWH№&* ©f cot»s«» Hr» ©witg vms awtt. of fathering tb« whole •ttmtiaa, Isjt he mi fwy Imsj', looking &t it puwtlj f«№ a «fl»«t&fy point of rim, with XittXa «» m Mm of »ii«t should be don© end w*a%t could b© dorse. Anything that Mrs. Ford said ws» do»«f. regoirdXoMt of who had »agg©#t«l it.» J^tx-ytoedy had a llttl® Mt different wsd«rst8udiiig of Mr* ford*a M«aa ia r®^M to ^e Institute. 1 tMik it pr#88«i la just « g#»ta«№ ®T two*. X& the first f&»eet I tidnit: he liked to ©oii«et things* 1 think that** the way ti» th.t^ «t«rt«4 — eoll«©tiag oM thtags.. He had a penchant for old things of all kinds, especially olfl im&hiBmry* i# h&t«d *««teg asytliifigj, which ma of any l&tttHwt to liiw, beisg allaw®d to €#t«riorat«. If ma. ©14 pim® of aadtiawry was fttondlBf oat isa « farmer's field m& it was something to was interested i% he weald begr it aai have It rehabilitate, or any old house or aa old alll or vhateingr it Might b# he t*aa interested in. Well, as Mrs. Ford expressed it, they eventually *wga» t© aecpir© so oasy things that aonebo^r saM to MB, *Xotttv» got ao 1 n mmy things, you IX have to baUd a wamm>m Itiey had never thought, aa she expressed it, of building a miiseum at all. lir. Ford thought It was a good idea.. He was getting barns full of vwimis- things all over th« |4a®«« Is cided that h® bad 'batter build a »us««w# fliis was jiwt a instinct. Tak© th@ ¥illag«# for «ampl«* A lot of p»o^.« -— for oaataple, tb» Milli««sbarg p®opl# *«- aa«# pa«i#t8 froa th« point of • ^iew of style and period* j ev«rytbing wtst be don« «^№tly as it is. Boysr was here? as various others have te@a here, of course. They, especially, feel (and 1 suppose it's -natural tost they should) that the Village %» a eottgloworatioa, they tMnfc it's terrible, i don't agr»e with then* I think it1 a an Mprftssioa of a «aa*s inter- est, of a great industrialistfs intej»«8tj» vd'll gay, I* M * oonglosieration. Why the Gotsvold Houas? Why such very varying things? It «as an expression of Mr. P#rd*s interest. The Museijjn Is the same way, 1 think he wanted it. 1 thiialc he definitely had th@ idea, as Fred black expressed ft to m and as it's exprassed on the plaque dovmstairs. He gathered thea© things -81- together pri»arily ^eaaae he was interested In then lilaself, Also, he wanted the people of today to see how folks of fifty, seventy-five or a htindi*#d years ago had lived • He vaa a great adnirer of emfts»ajs8iiip« fib liked t© see the results of people's handiwork. Of ccmrso, there Is also the paradox there. For instaBC©, they developed down at the Village a glass-blowing plant. Originally, they bad a mm hare, asd they had the ovens, and they blew glass exactly as Itted teeeit blow n & hundred years ago, for sow r«a»on or anottar, with til® pissing of that nan who was In charge, who was an expert -in the art of the old~tta» way of blowing glasa (fa® did some btamtifui work; «• ham some apecismuB in th« Village waltli^ rosw aad other jpla@«s)» they pulled the ovens out. They started to blow glass i^r gas. They started, using gas flarse to do tt instead of doing It the way It originally had been done. those things are hard to understand. He see»®d to Jbavt little conception of eertaln fitnesses as far as the Village was eoneeraed. Mow, take 1B the reeo&struotlon of a boUdlDg} that's where Williamsburg thinks we are terrible. He mda no attempt, In most instances .In the Village, to reeoaatrtiet tfeose teildlngs the way they faad been originally built. For Instance, the i*0g»» C-o*»ty Courthouse had bmmn aoved here from Illinois* fh»t*8 all the original wood in that building. Instead of using the original -82- type of nalla> the way thoy voald h&TO don© at WilllaiMrtitii'g the man had wroaght aany of th® nails and straightened ths» out,. and others could have been made), when he found them doing thia, he said, "Io» that's beautiful walnut, W-e'U mm brans a®mta*n It was whatever happened to strike Ms faaey* Fred Black says that UP, Ford jjifc faav® th« id«&. ©f feavtag the xfa3etim itself as an educational institution. The words on the pl&qw© downstairs, according to fr®& Blaek, w@r@ t^®«i fegr M»» or less, they art lifted out of a speech h» wm&® a sa»te®r of ago| I think they had an American Association of Mu3euai3 convention here, or some oocasion, and Fred Black made the apeaeh. In th© speech, he \.ised a great deal of the same terminology, the same wording la regapd td Mr» Ford, that is- on the plafp®* №•• Black says that Mr, for4 was th«sr® and was -w«py roich plsase&# Mr* Fwd said, ittXott ha¥» 'exitt^assd what I had in mind*8 How, whether that is actually fact (1 d -83- about. I ta^ir© ted pretty long eonimrtatioBS with her, and I think sfe® sensed the .greatness or the ©pportianity here of the insti- tution as aa edumttasal institution-* I*» sore of that, Shu rmnliied a little farta girt all h«r life, Sb* we* completely unspoiled by'all h®? money} that*8 «gr personal opinion.* She .had little appreciation of atxtique fttstiitDre, fc№ ea^Rple^ a beautiful Chipp@Mal# efeair wa» of no more value to her or not *s wueh to her as a tjtwttaot that etood ia the eornwr, a typi©^. ®M» Vietorias that sh® was ^ed to aa4 tad grous ttp with aa a little girl* H«r interest wat purely i» th® pi«a«rmti»a of hm hias-' 1 baod ,* hobby, «lth«ight os the ether hand, she liked bettOEtifttl things, for instance* she was ecotintally bringing me seething o^»» Maybe on® day ah® wotild bring tm ft b«amtif»d. Dr«^i« teapot« Skm*d bring it over, haai it t© m «ad tell we about it. On the other iaad» she liked something that had no v»ii-ae at all except from the nos- talgic point ©f view* Mrs, Font newer req,a»8t«i as to put into effeet is«y def- ittit® policies In regard to the Mgseun,. I was to esn# in awl ran It as I saw best. 4s long as 1 did things that she agreed with, it was all right* I doaft «wo to say I was perfectly fcsasstiftBigf 1 don't siean that, I was gr&duallj doing & lot of things underneath that didn't ahow la the way of the sdatnlstratton of the Mtt*«fflu As far &» exhibits ymtm concerned, I had to be fmy careful. -84- When I ease here* there just wasn't aay administration aetup* Tkmr® was s asam her© by the na»e of fr«d Smith who now works down In the fillag®. He had a wry limited background? I question whet hoar h& even gradti&ted frtm high school. He had tort of grown up her® «ad bad been the janitor originally. Mr« Ford, a3 you know,. was- a peculiar naxi. He had an idea : that h« ooiild t^« anybody, no natter tAat their baskgro«a«3t pill them out of there and pit th«a omr hmmf «wi that th®y vould get along, fh&t was a philosophy that alaost btjilt the Tori. Motor Ccmpony* It worked, and I'M araased. Ired was totally awaapei % the job* When I ©an© iaf f«r * example, his office was way back in the MH@S«№« There HAS just hiia~ self and on®-..girl, and that*a all ther© wae# with the @xe«ptioa of Mill Diatom, who worked tip in the library but was. continually polled out of the library to do other 'jobs. fhatrs all ther© wts in th® №oa®vm* The fllea were in a deplorable condition. If you wanted to find out about soaethingi it'was jtist hit-or-«ias| yea night find it or you Blight not, ffeere vao pm% ;»o acbBi&ifltr&tiw f&PW> %& speak of. MP»- Saith'a authority t© sarry out the pslieies of the Museum emm from Mrs. Ford or from Mr* Craig downtown* the sitiia- tion had beoona so flagrant* so impossible, that 1 think that is why the change was made. Many little things happened? manifestly, th® man couldn't carry on th© management of this Vkmwm just by himself* -85- He didn't know how to delegate authority! he had no systeaj he was swaaped* When people of consequence would corae her®, he wouldn't even see them, or he would is® rather rod© to thsou H© had BO eon- oeption of public gelations whleh» of oew##f was mtry bad* History of the ea&iblts thease&res is one of ear great troubles, Aa I said, when I found the files la & deplorable eon~ dltion, that is Almost an. ttndejratat«Mmt« In the first tk«y had BO filing system.* no crosa-file »ysti» •86- afraid it Isn't. There's only on© thing to do and that is to send m couple of rwnaeolx people to Pittsburgh «ad $vm% sty, "Sew, let** do the raal McCoy on thia and find out whether it is or whether it isn't." Sot to w taa«wl«!g® did John Taster iawardi «twr spuafc to Hr» Ford jpegardlng the Stephen y©st©r Bone eoostroversy* BOUMKI wrote the little booklet called gUlflEX J*Jl&tei£L «hleh indio&ted the bOtta® vas sot th# original birthplace. I think ftp. Ford took ,& •As t&w the otitex* bouMMi «ad their atit^ratieity, tber* w^ have been th© vr^Eig ma rnnploy®d to do the work on the®, Baadol|ii Mafas, who died & few months ago, was associated with th© Cl@sj©nts Xdtorary at th® Unlwrsity of Miebipau 1® %»« a wxy food IHeai @f mine and he said, "What you oxight to do is to g@t m coupl© of good research mm and put thesi on that job, For God's sake, do itt l*ut then on that job and 1st thea publish their findiinga in ft reputable historical journal. I«t*8 vettle the ©ontrOTKray ®ae« end far «llt* -87- There's ao disgraoe In №. Ford1* making a sdstake; the dlsgme® is la refusing to acknowledge those wtstate«s and allowing it to ataodl as ta#l«g the authentic Stephen Foster if it isn't. Unquestionably It tea a Stephen Foster oammctlont and the Foster fanily lived i» that house. I don't think there*« any question on that point of Tiev, but 1 think th«r® is & qaastion as to whether it is hit birthplaee or »ot. I don't think my att«»pt waa etwr «awle to bring i» people Mho «©r© trajjwi to do re#«at»eh for atrth#»ticatioB,# As Mr. fred Blaok explained it, that was mm of the divisions, m to speak, be- tween &lsel Foni and Ms father. Edssl would hams llk@d to see this place operated entirely differently. Be wanted to get t&im proper personnel in h©[email protected] He would bris^ an individual in, for example, and talk to his about the possibilities of bis earning is and acting aa oixrator* W«H# Mt« fmA vould talk to that mm, and »B1«#» tto® ^m had actually worked with hia hands and knew sorsething about a pl«o» of wM3xSsme^9 he wattn't any good. For iastanoa, I don't thiak Mr* Ford would hav© had mnch tint for ig or A, K, Hills mt unyhodj iik® that who is here mmtt beeatise we aren't otehsaiss. ThflMt was such a parad© of people t^irough hm» through the y»«r» that I re«13y em&daH s«y hj^ the «aditlit# were afi«ttg«d or vt|xQ arranged then* There were too sany fingers i» the pi® through all the y»ar»* U&mvm? I wouldn't 'dovtbt that Hr« Ford did th« Majority of the plaantog of the details. 4s ?y«d Black said* thta was his citadel to which ha retired when be began to feel that he no longer QOBtrellfid Ford Motor* Atoewt 1925 or 1926, the Ford Motor Company had become so colossal that he no longer could keep his fingers on it. That was the reaeoit, as 1 said, vhy Harry Bennett rose to power. Bennett aould keep his f ingeri cat the Cofflpa^r JCBJ; hlia. That's why Mr. Ford spent three or four hours oat of every day with Harry Bennett* that's why he guarded J^in place ao car®folly and refused to let anybody coma in who would interim:® with him. This was his plaything, and lie was going to play with Itj that's ' about what I gathered. The main Village and the itemm were the old stamping grounds, aad they oontroHad th« «ehool» mry #lo»Ay» 1tt»tft •wi^ I think that ever* the !«», vith all doe r«»p«et# they iMa't have the caliber of educators that they might have had in the schoolst because they had to follow ft pattern of teaching which Me* Ford knew. It Mtl tlie little schoollious©, yew s@e. X^i htao* and read to aoeh abotit the |Mlo«^y that Mr« Ford was suppossd to have, that you. l©arn hy doing, the Joha iNktiey type of philosophy. Actually what it s»ovffit©d to was ft throwback to th© MeGuffey type of educgtioB, X think. X think It was almost a throvback to the Nicholas Nicklety type of education. Of oottrae I wtaa't in .the piotw® vhen he veuat spending enoTtaous aw« of soney §&, the YiXlage £Q& the Ifaaew £Q& the school? aooey meant nothing* 1 wasn't here-, so I do»*t know, but It seeras to se there waa as awful, lot of j&U( about la«ra£og by doing. BeXfttiveXy few ©f the I would definitely consider this ®ors of a Nicholas Hiette^f ty^i of mpprentle® tsroioiag x«th«r than an ®3^res»loa of progressive #dticati«B»l ifcilooo^y. Of e«ir»®» I know tbey1?® been chasging DO«, sine® №*« Ford's death and Mrs. Ford's death and ao on. Of course, they IQS&L the chapel. S@ esae over to chapel every and their chapel services were very tsuch a 1© MeGudffey, 1 aay — recdtisf all the po«MS. H« XOVIMS to h«a» those. To it w»s certainly a ^»iy eXeaeiitersr @eho©l syit«». fteoiats&y these bits of ftp* ¥&p&*& 0,ilm®$h¥ wm® tmtlaa- for him into an educational philosophy of learning by doiog, rather than the homespun type of education that It really was, I' think that it vat a questiea of rephx«taifig# vmmr&img for hl». ly snsh wmn m Sisonds (who was her©} anti perlmps ©ven Fred Black to sora© degree. . Fr®d was a great actelrer of Mr. Ford although he saw his m&lmmma* Vmtimm i»opl© Xike thos© 1A0 !»•?« writtea his life, know, and his secretaries, X think, have taken his ideas and then -90- th«ir own M#« of m& Ideas ttpon it, and then have given It out to the press or is interviews to people who would &mm and visit. This itasnH an integrated or natural philosophy* bat something that was worked out as a rationalisation of what was actually done. % first personal iap?t*8t©» of Mr. Ford ma that he wts a aan of great shytsess. For instance, vhaa ha earns to see a© for th© first tiin% as I told fm about* be earn In alaost with deference. I doo't k)a«f vhet&ar I'i ©all It defnraaoct* bat Jt»t th.« v^- a^" ordlaajfy indlvldml vould ha«® o^» in: £gj3£* and aj^lflglstng for tc»«tbing itJiat th@y felt they had ion® .tarosg ®p «dtt«d to do, I® sat dotm* mostly asking q^sstloas, aad w«« mry fri®rfly». 1« talked rather intimately abotifc Sdiael; I donft attan Intlaately in the »ea»» of giviag vm to^ pictwre of the slt««itl©» as it jfgjy bat mytng iAy h» had to iraMtaly go Mek to Detroit,, be- cause Sds«l had been away, and there were certain things that lie had to take ea^ of, I g«t tli® i^s«sai©» of a wars, Moan pereon ^he& I talked vith hS»| I did, definitely, 1 always did thereafter* t*m. other lBtervi#«®? hjave a ftelisg that he had a gr«at pcraonal iat®y«st to ne aa Bgntelf * Kow iHietaer that was true to sH sa®«s ©r «fe«th#x» it j«»t tiPtti in >st cane* ©f e^ora** I canH tell. I woaM say it a» I «!©yk« -91- various mmt tewsg^msi • the plant, I t»» ©©ntimially eoodng «er©» wopka«in who had known Hr* Feri* aadl stories of bow Up. Fbrd tmtU stop la the plant and talk to them personally* Of e&wmw; h& had a habit also, I Ms afraid, of waking promises to iadivlgviala which lie promptly forgot, M® .had many case* wh«rft i» tad sa4e eertata prmims, aeeordlog to t&e lattvid- ual, and I think because it happened so often It was probably trw. 8» v&0 a basy w, For lnstmn@#f UISSB b« ttlkad to n» for th® flx^it time, he got talking about MeGaffey and what an adralrer of 1-fcGuffey fas was and what he was doing. Th©y were using the MoGuffey Re&^er in. s«shool hmm? $M h® mAA, *I*11 seinl yoot a »et»w tefc km mtwt did. I was w» with ift1. Port In any i«rg# gsrofipi' of -psopl®, nor did 1 *«• hto In say lai?§# grot^» l»t h» wm pr©l»M.y aa»»@y la thsts.. Ion see, that wa» the f«ptttatioa bm Sas^E* Me slwsy« to make a speech. I don't thlak he e-ror sade raor© than two or speeches in his whole life, and they were very short. I would def- initely say that he «§& A wry shy individual, and because of that it's probably the reason why ha lat so rmxxy people gain power — either a f®ar of off«Mlag p##pl«» or «ctp®^® .«lifii«s«« I would say that h© bad a very alart miad when X talked vlth MM S^ I believe 1 saM that he h$& a -aerveloiie «®«a7. He' would fi@k «yp a e»»f»r»atioB that fe«d h»pp«»« -92- was quit® remarkable 1B a. way. Leering out th@ formal side of bis educational background, I think that thors w»r« ar#as that to prefew^d to talk about.» Being the man be was, and the position he held, I suppose that merman® who talked to him VKB a litti®- wvemsy* It*s mry dif- ficult to prt yourself at @ass« completely to talk&ag to * «a» vlum you bagin to think, "UsH, h«r@*a one of th# rleiMMtt »©»* la thm world, with trenwndous ^w«r»H It*a mvf diffloolt £©» wort p«opl« t© b« p«rf«etly at eaae. Ufamt I wwi getting at waft ttot I think J& controlled the conversation. He would mk gfflp. quest iocs} pr«tty well out of defareauM to hi«f 1 thi«& that % person — v»!l# I v«aa t with h!a tao*^h to guide M» isto channels! He controlled it pretty such himself, and would keep it within his mm limits. 1 bad no way of knowing if im WAS easily offended. I couldn't get that Impression, He had m fay expressive faoej it ^ lighted tip with « great deal of charts. Mm tliat's why it1 a so hard for peopl« to «wi#r@tiuad bi»# for iKstane®, 1 MA a a pdatlug of hia» «^ the first reaction of «is» Bfyaott for me m& who knevr him very well, vas wh®n ahe said, "It's too hiard, №», aldb««hit«t that's a eemU fae®:«* 1 said, "Well, rem&mbuTt £o^ f«u his as one of bis favorite nieces.! lou mm him. wh@n he was always happy to be with you, aad you saw no other side** I mid* "Personally, 1 iloaH s«e that at all in the f&ee, bat «ayb® you do* Irorybody a«#s eeaetfilng different ta m painting or In the original. 1 d pr«s«ntAtl^n eoples tl»t 'had been given to M»f 'beeea#e I'e«o*t imagine that the man had read the®. ivparantly the fascination of the human body, as far &3 the working was ooneerned arid th«* desire to obtain some form of dietary control or other control of the b@$&9 VAB »troag« &®& there was .his great friendship for Or* McGlure at th© hospital. I suppose lie was interested iM the body Iron a aschan- leal point of view. It mm m wonderftil pleo© of machinery to and he was Interested in It, la how It waricod and so on, K»owlng his a-etlvity, his days were «p®mt «(Nttly la iiither and yon* Srerj day he took long drives In the country, all around the little mills and new places and so on, because I was con- tinually getting ©alls abotrt, we'll *sy» where »oM>body lived — to check on them or have thmv. checked on? because the/ veren't keeping -94- the pXaea up the way he waited it, Se would call Mmry Bwutatt* a»d thrwjgl* tha Sociological Pap*rt»flnt I votiM go and to »«« why It wasn't kept mp# if the ymr4 wasn't k»pt neat and aM orderly and all that sort of thing, toai tear so may stories about how ha ma out avary % feeling is that he was nor» or lets of an oxtrovert. He liked to b© №-&m& p®©f4#, H@ Iticad to talk to faaraers, Ha lltetd to talk to m#ohaalo«» Ha llfced to aa« what was going, o«» H® lot1^ t© look at land. fi« liked to tak© taoonlight drives when he was baying prop- erty, and look ttt It by moonlight so that people ooulcta't se© him. That** %^f I : shining the brass, lou mmm$ 1 knew Doctor McClui*e so well (he hap- to b® a fr®t«mlty toothar of al«@} 1*4 gat aoaa r^a^tioas Bar, NoCliffa. Ha apast quit® a lot of tina witlt Ir, ford, I think I*» right la that roapaet. Qr« IfeCSLisNi iiioH tell «a whaa Mr, ford started to flrat show signs of having a bad. heart, nor did he talk about b%a attack In 1945* 2r« №61i£«f of cours©, for the past eight or t«s- has aot been a well wan* either. He'd be©n having these heart .95- attacks one after another. Well, he had six. of seven coronary attacks, and It vms remarkable that ho liied and continued working «* long as h© did after those, I sttjpoa© it vas beoauot he vas a v«ry abstemious psrson; h@ never smoked or drank. I don't know if that was th* reason, bmt h« led a ^ftry «tost®»lmiaf life* -96- Th« itelniac©nc@s of Mr* M, 3. Ablewbite Index Adams, Bandolph, 87 Alcoholics AnsBpious, 49 Bennett, Harry, 5, 17-22, 24-25, 28-2ff 31, 37, 39-41, 43, 58-72, 39, 95 "Benson Ford", 3 Black, Find, 63, 76, 81-82, 88-90 Blott, Jack, 37 3rady» Janes, 62, 64-65 Brown* Douglas, 19, 24 Brown, E. D., 18 Bryant, Catherine, 93-94 Bugas, John, 42* 49, 51-54? 78 Chapraan, Dick, 42-44 Christ Church, Cincinnati, 9 Church Ministry in jtearica, 9 Craig, B. J., 67, 78, 80, 85 Cu&mings, Hike, 56 Dahlinger, Bay, 78-79 Davis, Jack, 69-70 Detroit Committee on tiim Control of H«*oM«»* 49 Dswey, John, 89 Diston, William, 85 Donovan, Clarence, 56 Ebling, George, 37 Ediaon, T. A,, 8 Bdison Institute, 72-73, 84, 89-90 Greenfield Village, 78-79, 81-84* S6-90 Museum, 73-74, 77-81, 83-86, 8&«90 Schcxsls, 89-90 Ednunds, H. £., 94 Bfeery, Hrs., Cincinnati, 9 Family Servie© Society, 48 Pay, Stan, 21-22, 25, 64-66 Firestone, Harvey, 8 Foll«y, J)r. (Wayne Uniwsity), 50-51 Ford, Benson, 73-74 Ford, Clar®. Edison Institute, 73-74, 77-85 Ed0©l Ford, relations with, 73-74$ 7^ Personality, 2-3, 75, 77-78, 90 Th« fisoiaiseezusftft of 14?. H» S. Afalewalte lactex Institutes 72~?4* 88 Ford, Keia-y, relations with, 72-73, 76-77* 8Sf 91 Ford Motor Company, o&dBlstr&tlan of* 72 Health, 6 Ford, Henry t&ewa ©», ?6# 85, №-8f 4, 7$, 80-S3, 58-89 , Bwiy, relations v%%h, 59-61*' 68# 72 laatitut®, 72-?3» 76, 78, 80-63* S5# ^«^2 , i oaf. 89-92 ' . # Steel, r#lattoaa with, 6# 72-73, 76-77» 8S» 91 Hsaltli, 95 ' " • ' Humor, 29 Inkster, rehabilitation of, 11-12 Personality, 2-6, 10, 69, 85, 88, 91-95 Beligion, 6-8, 90 Hoossvelt, Franklin D,, attitude toward, 40 Stephen Foster controversy, 87 Unions, 35, 38 Ford, Henry II, 52 Ford Motor Company Finance Banking, erisia, 1921, 59 Industrial Halations iSaployee Services Department, 44-45, 52-53 dsploynent De^rtwent, 42-44 Labor Anti-union activities, 30-31, 34-35» 38-40 Injunction, 1940, 30 Strike, 19a, 31-35 UAW-CIO Contract, 38-39 Grievances, 30-32, 34, 36, 38-39, 68 Labor Relations Department, 3O~4O, 47-49, 52$ 54-56 Personnel, 23-30 Personnel Department, 25-26, 29 Salaried Personnel Office, 58, 77 Service Department, 39-40, 60-66, 68 -98- Tl» Beoiniaeeace* of Mr* H« 8. Abl@wfait« laetex Ford Motor Company (cont*d) Sociological Department Functions and methods 1940-1945, 12-21, 23-29, 33-34, 36, 38, 42 1945-1948, 45-50, 52-57 History, 1913-1940, 8-12 Organisation and administration 1940-1945, 18-22, 24-26, 41-43, 63 1945-1948, 40-47, 50, 52 Personnel, 17-20, 22, 40-42, 45-46, 56-57 Termination, 1948, 50-59 Organisation and administration Reorganization, 1945, 46, 51, 53, 57, 62 Production World War II ikmb sights, 22-23, 40 Pratt' & 'Whitney engine, 23-34, 28-29, 38, 40 l*ublie Relations Politics, Dearborn, 65-66 Gasman, Josephine, 24-25 ll&xry Ford Hospital, 15, 20-21, 33 "Henry Ford II", 3 Howard, John Tasker, 87 Hudson, J. L», 73 Huron Mountain Club, 2-3 Inkater, rehabilitation of, 11-12 Jackson, Berry, 12, 18 Jaiaes, Will lamt 8 Kaiser-Fraaer Corporation, 25 Kipke, Harry, 66 Lee, John R., 8 Lindbergh, Charles, 4 Logan County Courthouse, 82-83 Mack, Ilmrry, 3?, 64, 69 Marquis, Dean, S-10, 69 Marshall, Donald, 70-71 Martio, Homer, 31 Martin, P. E., 11 McClure, Dr. Roy S., 95-96 -99- Th@ HeaiBtaeeneea of Mr* !• S» At>l®whit« Index MeGuffey Readers. 8, 89, 92 "Michigan on Canvas", 73-74. 80, 83 Miller, Arnold, 38, 42, 67-6S Mills, A* K., 88 Moore, Bob, 25 Murphy, Governor Frank, 12, 24 Nelson, Frank, 9 M«wton, Charles, 87 Page, Bishop Herman, 2 B&useh, Bay, 64 Rausehenbusch, Walter, 9 Heading, Hayor Mchard, 41 Republican County Committee, 71 Bockefeller family, 74 Roosevelt, Franklin, 40 Boss, Bob, 43-44, 4o Sheldrick, Larry, 77 Short, General, 40-41 Sig3.er, Kim, 66 Simonds, Williasa, 90 Sraith, Cadrio (Pat), 19-21 Smith, Fred, 85-86 Sorensen, Charles, 11, 62-64t 67 Star, №•„ 12 Stephen Foster Ho\xsBf 86-88 St. Qsorge's Cathedral, 9 St. Paul's Cathedral, 8 Taylor, itobert, 12, 19 UAW-CIO, 27, 29-39, 47«49, 51, 54, 68 U,S. Sgjploysjent Service, 3S University School, Cleveland, 1 Ward, Willis, 71 Wayne University, 50 Webber, Jim, 74 Webster, Mr. (Inkster rehabilitation) 11 Western KLeetric, Chicago, 53 Western K®a©rv© University, Cleveland» 1 Williams, Charles D. (Episcopal Bishop of Michigan), 10 Williaiasburg, 81, 83 Willow Run personnel, 23-28, 63 Xale School of Alcoholic Stuty* 49 -100-