EMR doi: 10.1111/emr.12403 INTERVIEW Some personal reflections on the present and future of Australia’s fauna in an increasingly fire‐prone continent By Chris Dickman and Tein McDonald

Australia already has the highest rate of species loss of any region in the world, yet the risks suddenly worsened in the spring–summer of 2019–20, with an unprecedented chain of wildfires covering 10 M ha of the nation’s forest and woodland estate. Fires of this scale were unprecedented and not factored into recovery plans for Threatened Species or ecosystem management in general. EMR asks one of Australia’s most pre‐eminent ecologists what can be done Figure 1. Professor Chris Dickman is pictured here releasing an eastern quoll at Booderee to ameliorate the losses and National Park, NSW, with David Smith. Chris has been involved in studying fauna in Australian ecosystems for over four decades, guiding many cohorts of honours and post‐graduate students better avoid and respond to and earning widespread recognition from his peers. His unequivocal statements regarding the such impacts occurring in potential impact of, and appropriate responses to, the 2019–20 Australian wildfires have been cru- the future? cial in assisting agencies, organisations and communities prepare for timely post‐fire actions and to work towards improved environmental disaster planning. (Photograph: Judy Dunlop). Key words: ecosystem recovery, environmental disaster planning, fragmentation, Threatened Species, published researcher holding wildfire. M: Chris, you were the many highly prestigious roles as Tresearcher who broke the Chris Dickman is Professor in Terrestrial Ecol- a scientist and are not prone to news to the world about the ogy, School of Life and Environmental Sciences, exaggerated statements. Yet, you extent of predicted loss of native The University of Sydney (NSW 2006, Australia, suggest this may even be an animals in the 2019–20 Tel: +61 2 9351 2318; Email: Email: chris.dick- underestimation? Australian bushfires – 800 M in [email protected]). Tein McDonald is Editor D: The initial figure that I calcu- NSW alone and over 1 billion of the journal Ecological Management and Rest- Clated was 480 million in New South Australia‐wide. You are a highly oration (Email: [email protected]).

ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION 1

Ecological Society of Australia EMR INTERVIEW

Wales (NSW). That drew on data col- reptiles in the path of the fires. So lated in 2007 for a report prepared the numbers were huge and certainly for WWF (World Wide Fund for Nat- quite shocking when I first estimated ure), to estimate the effects on native them, but still an underestimate as animals of legally approved land clear- more than 6.25 million ha overall ing for development in NSW. The had burned, and other animal groups State of New South Wales had were not included in the calculations. approved the clearing of 640,000 ha of land between 1998 and 2005, TM: So this calculation is which seemed an extraordinary assuming that there would be amount (Fig. 1). few able to survive in refugia in To try to get a handle on it, we the fire grounds, and if they did looked at as much of the published survive the fire, they would not information and unpublished studies be able to survive the post‐fire that we could find on the densities lack of food and habitat? Figure 2. Small mammals are among the of mammals, birds and reptiles in for- CD: Yes. In the first statement I put many vertebrate species that are highly vul- ests and woodlands in the areas sub- out, I used the word ‘affected’. The nerable to the immediate effects of fires as ject to clearing – and to synthesise it reason for doing that was to provide well as secondary effects of lack of food and to produce some average density esti- a little bit more nuance, because if increased predation that occur after fire. mates for those three vertebrate you say that 480 million animals had Widespread fire that leaves few unburnt refuges is likely to place populations of many groups. Once we had that, we could been killed in the fires then everyone fauna species, particularly those already derive the numbers of animals killed assumes that the fires had just inciner- listed as Threatened, at hugely greater risk by multiplying out the average density ated the animals straight out. I wanted of extinction. Much of the wet forest habitat by the area approved for land clearing to avoid that impression. While some of this Endangered silver‐headed antechinus – and that turned out to be 104 mil- animals will be killed immediately in was burnt in early 2020. (Photograph: Gary lion. With the bushfires going on the fires, there will be a lot that had Cranitch). and being as severe and intense and gone underground, into burrows, into covering as much of the landscape cracks in the soil, maybe even some as they were, it seemed that here into tree hollows in the tops of trees. was another huge disturbance event They will survive the immediate that survive in situ are going to be in many ways similar to land clearing. impact of the flames, but then they the less mobile things, small mammals That is, the fire was likely to kill all the will emerge into a burnt landscape perhaps, lizards with deeper burrows. animals in its direct path and the with no resources. Many of them are They are the ones that will emerge extent of it gave little chance of ani- likely to starve or be preyed upon. I into the burnt landscape and face mals that had survived the flames sur- have been in post‐fire environments the prospect of no resources. Already viving in the post‐fire environment prior to the current one and looked at the end of a long drought, they (Fig. 2). Many animals are likely to around and have seen the carcasses were stressed to begin with and, par- die of starvation or predation. of newly dead animals, everything ticularly after the fires had been I came out with the initial figure of from kangaroos through to lyrebirds through and removed food, water 480 million for NSW in mid‐Decem- and even things like bush rats – not and shelter resources, they were not ber 2019 when the fire had burnt 3 burnt but just dead, presumably hav- going to last long. million ha in NSW – the vast majority ing starved. There is an additional factor for of which was forest and woodland. I The key thing about these fires, those survivors and that is that red had to revise this up to 800 million occurring as they did in such dry con- foxes and feral cats move into burned when the fires had burnt 5 million ditions, is that they seemed to be so areas very quickly. They are much ha by the end of 2019. When you big that they were not leaving many more mobile than all of these smaller add just the additional land burned unburnt patches in the landscape to or medium‐sized native species, and in Victoria, let alone other states, the act as refuges for fauna and sources they will come in to pick off the sur- total area burnt came to 6.25 million of recolonisation after the fire (Fig. 3). vivors. We know this from previous ha. Assuming density estimates similar We know from other fires that studies in forest environments and in to those in NSW, particularly in simi- there are probably two groups of sur- open desert environments; these lar habitats just over the border in Vic- vivors, those that survive in situ in the predators are very active and very toria, you end up with an estimate of burnt areas and those that can survive mobile, taking advantage very quickly over a billion mammals, birds and by fleeing into unburnt areas. Those after the fires have gone through.

2 ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd EMR INTERVIEW

The more mobile survivors that charismatic, maybe smaller, maybe might be able to flee are going to be underground and still being burnt, or the birds and the larger more mobile being burnt inside logs or tree hol- animal groups like kangaroos. While lows. It was thinking about all of some individuals may escape the these other unseen animals that moti- flames, many will be disoriented in vated me to draw people’s attention the smoke and flames and die in big to the greater extent of the catastro- numbers. There were images from phe. It was not just the cute and the beach areas down the south coast charismatic ones that were dying, tra- and at Mallacoota showing large num- gic though that must be. It was every- bers of dead birds, for example. But thing else as well. It was about the for those birds that do flee the flames, impact on all the other species and it is going to be very difficult for any on the ecosystems they belong to. to find a place to settle. Studies of land clearing have shown that’s exactly TM: The loss of genetic diversity what happens with birds. They don’t among some fauna species is all die when the bulldozers come extremely concerning. When we through with chains. Some will fly already have under‐represented away to a neighbouring bush block, fauna and conservation requires but very few will survive because as much genetic representation the resident birds, particularly the ter- in as many populations as ritorial ones, won’t have a bar of it. So possible, this rings enormous Figure 3. Much of Chris’s ecological work the ’survivors’ just die later. This is alarm bells. has been carried out in the sand dunes of the Simpson Desert where faunal diversity is one likely to be the case for many other CD: Yes, it is a loss all round. There of the highest of any known areas in inland escaping animal groups, who already was a study some years ago looking at Australia. His research across a range of would not have been in great shape a very wide range of taxa, plants and ecosystems has provided insights into pro- due to drought. animals, and it found that each spe- cesses of faunal recovery after drought and cies comprised, on average, about fire, adding substantially to our capacity to TM: And what was going through 220 populations. Even for species that predict extinction pressures arising from your mind at the time when, like may not go extinct, and there’ll be a large‐scale ecological disturbances. Pictured all of us, you were watching the lot in that category (e.g. koalas here is Chris with a thorny devil. (Photograph: fire authorities’ online maps that won’t go extinct in these fires, despite Stephanie Yip). repopulated daily with all these some of the media that has been out extended fires. You would have there) many will lose populations. So had a sense of growing alarm. it is the cumulative death of lots and How did having to make such a lots of populations that will lead to The Commonwealth announced more statement feel? erosion of genetic diversity and ulti- recently that of 331 species listed CD: It was pretty bad really. Yeah, I mately species extinction. under the federal Environment Pro- think one of the things that stimulated Of the listed Threatened Species, tection and Biodiversity Conservation me to make this statement was seeing the ones of most concern are going Act (EPBC Act), the majority, about all the coverage of koalas that were to be the ones that are sensitive to 270, were plants, and these had had being rescued or wandering amidst the immediate and secondary effects a greater or lesser amount of their the flames while the fires were still of fire and that have had most of their geographical ranges burnt. While burning and kangaroos that were flee- ranges burnt. That is, those sensitive many of the plants are likely to have ing the fire front. The images them- to the fire itself or sensitive to the adaptations to fire, we do not yet selves were horrible, and some of effects that come after fire (e.g. such know whether the intensity of these them went viral on social media. as being picked off after the fire by fires in some areas may have These were telling the world that predators or being short of food) and exceeded that capacity for some spe- there was an event that was happen- for which the greater part of the pop- cies. Furthermore, it is safe to say that ing here that was really quite terrible. ulation is in the path of the fire. some of these plant species will be But for all the horror associated with Again, our earlier estimates were under increased pressure from her- these images, there was a whole lot that anywhere from 20 to 100 species bivory when they start to recover of other animals that were not would be in that category, that is of after fire as well as where they occur being seen – animals that are less being threatened with extinction. in unburnt refuges.

ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION 3 EMR INTERVIEW

One example of a Threatened ani- occur in only one catchment on the term monitoring up and running I mal of most concern would be the north coast of NSW or southern think in every bioregion – maybe Kangaroo Island glossy black cocka- Queensland) and, according to some one or two sites in small ones while too – which can fly away from the recent analyses, quite a lot of popula- you’ll need multiple sites in the bigger fires but has no food when it returns tions of platypus. So these are not in ones. At the moment, we are just because the canopy‐borne seed of areas that necessarily have burnt but looking at a very small handful of the casuarinas it depends on will have they will feel, literally, the down- sites, and often they are not even been released or burnt. Habitat that is stream effects of the fires, when the statutory, but just driven by individu- suitable and has casuarina is going to rain washes the debris into the sys- als. be occupied by other glossy black tems. It can’t just be left to individuals, cockatoos, and in the case of the Kan- no matter how committed, as they garoo Island glossy blacks, the nearest TM: You were an author on the will not be around all the time. You populations are in East Gippsland. Threatened Species Recovery need to carry it forward as part of leg- Those populations (which are a differ- Hub’s document After the islation. It needs to be built into your ent subspecies) probably didn’t do catastrophe: a blueprint for a structures going forward. We accept terribly well because of the fires conservation response to large‐ such monitoring for a whole variety there. So it is really not clear where scale ecological disaster’ of other aspects of life. The Bureau displaced glossy blacks would go. (Dickman et al. 2020). I notice of Meteorology monitors every day Another example is the Kangaroo this HUB blueprint calls for more and its predictions have been fantasti- Island dunnart. It is likely that many formal study to calculate the true cally valuable. We look at them every would have died immediately in the impact of these fires at a detailed day to work out whether we will be fires, but if any of them were able to level. going to the beach or getting out get underground they will have come CD: Yes, it is difficult to know our umbrellas. But we don’t do that back into an environment where what the true fire impact might be with our natural environment and there was no food and no protection because our monitoring in Australia we absolutely need to. from feral cats. is really quite poor. Resourcing for it We have had fire studies in the has been wound back progressively past, of course, but fires of this inten- TM: And I guess there even may be over the years. So we really don’t have sity really are unprecedented, and we a reconsideration after this as to adequate monitoring set up to allow don’t have such a clear idea of what to whether other species may need us to look at how populations of vari- expect and how management might to join the lists of Threatened ous species are tracking before a dis- be able to assist post‐fire recovery. Species? turbance event, to then be able to So what is absolutely crucially impor- CD: Indeed, another group that go in afterwards and say OK, well tant is to get into some of the burnt really hasn’t received a lot of attention here’s a drop in Species A, here’s areas now – and find some of the and has few species currently listed as the change in Species B, here’s the unburnt areas as well so that they threatened comprises the aquatic spe- loss of ecological function and so on. are effective controls – and look at cies that occur literally downstream of If we had this monitoring, we’d be the trajectory of recovery and what fires. We know from previous wildfire in a much better position to under- we can learn from it. This monitoring events – and also sadly, from recent stand how things were tracking prior should also capture responses events in eastern Australia – if you to when the fires went through and of biota to different fire management get heavy rain afterwards, a lot of we would be in a much better posi- regimes in a range of ecosystems – ash and other material washes into tion to be able to quantify recovery to better inform future management the river systems and that can be afterwards and to improve the situa- approaches. toxic to the aquatic invertebrates; it tion for the future. We just don’t have reduces oxygen in the water as it the monitoring capacity – and we TM: Speaking of recovery, you’ve rapidly decomposes. So you are losing should have it (Fig. 4). done a lot of work looking at both the invertebrates directly – for As an example, the Long Term Eco- recovery of fauna in arid zones example a lot of the caddis flies and logical Research Network was shut after drought and fire. What are chironomids – and, either directly or down in 2017. It cost only about the main lessons from science? indirectly, a lot of higher order organ- $1.5 M per year, which in the grand CD: Yes, one of the things that has isms including endemic crayfish (as scheme of things was incredibly come out of much of that previous they have narrow ranges), fish (e.g. cheap. And it was a great investment, work is that, for recovery to be rela- galaxids in Victoria), turtles (there but yes, it was cut. We need to revisit tively speedy and across the broader are some Endangered turtles that each that, not only revisit it but get long‐ landscape, you need unburnt patches

4 ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd EMR INTERVIEW

out of the trees; dead. When you go to colony sites and see piles of dead bats at the end of hot days, it is just heart- breaking. And when you lose species like that, you lose the opportunity for pollination and seed dispersal between fragmented blocks. So all these things are adding up to being not just a numerical catastrophe but very much an ecological one across the board in terms of ecological func- tion and ecosystem integrity

TM: So it is all about fragmentation – and emphasises why connectivity is a mantra for those seeking to conserve and restore ecosystems. CD: Yes, what we need is more connectivity, not less of it. And some of the social media commentary is say- ing we need to chop up the forest Figure 4. One of the factors limiting Australia’s capacity to respond to large‐scale environ- even more. There is a lot of weird mental emergencies such as fire and drought is the dearth of long‐term ecological research in stuff happening at the moment, but Australia. The trend of defunding long‐term programmes needs to be reversed, establishing if these ideas were to go ahead it ‐ ‐ well designed long term research across the full range of our nation’s bioregions. Pictured here would be even more catastrophic for is Chris retrieving captured animals from a trap line on a permanent plot on top of a sand dune biodiversity. at a site in the Simpson Desert. (Photograph: Emma Spencer). TM: Another recommendation of the Hub blueprint has to do with across the landscape that contain Gliders won’t be able to get back in improvements when fires are refuge populations, remnant popula- – unless we translocate them from actually burning – that is, to tions representative of the broader somewhere else – because they can’t work closer with the fire landscape before. If you don’t have migrate across all the development authorities to set up processes these, then the recovery is going to and roads that we have placed in the for extinguishing a fire once be much, much slower. And in areas way. threat to life and property was where forest has been fragmented There are other remnant vegetation over. and entire blocks have burnt, then blocks up and down the coast that CD: Yes, that’s right. There are we have situations where many spe- have been similarly fragmented by some situations where fires have been cies will never get back. developments and roads and other allowed to continue to burn across One example is Royal National infrastructure. Where they have burnt the landscape when they are no Park, south of Sydney. It is isolated it may be very difficult for the less longer posing any further risk to peo- from other surrounding bushland. To mobile species to get back in, ple or communities. Understandably, the north is Sydney and to the south whether plants or animals. That pro- the priorities are people, communities is Wollongong and to the west is a cess of ecosystem recovery may be and infrastructure, but there needs to lot of housing development and really further slowed if some of the species be another layer there that, once big arterial roads. In 1994, a fire swept that have been affected are some of those imperatives are taken care of, through Royal National Park and the pollinators, seed disperser or attention can be turned to ensure that knocked out a fairly well‐known and spore disperser organisms. Animals biodiversity remains. I don’t think we well‐studied population of the greater like flying foxes, for example, were do that very well. There was one glider. There has been one possible already doing it tough before the fires exception, however – the planning sighting of gliders going back about went through – simply because they that went into making sure that the 5 years now. But effectively that pop- don’t do very well in long‐term Wollemi Pines didn’t get burnt. That ulation was knocked out, and we are droughts. When the temperature gets was very impressive and was done looking at a population extinction. to 42 degrees celsius, then they drop because the Wollemi Pine is so well

ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION 5 EMR INTERVIEW known. But there are lots of threat- with researchers and non‐govern- plum pine in some burnt areas as it is ened ecological communities out ment organisations (NGOs) as well the main food plant for the mountain there that don’t get the same priority as meeting directly with the state gov- pygmy possum. because they are not so well known. ernments. She has been closely This experience is showing us that If there was an ecological response advised by the Threatened Species we have been caught somewhat team to call upon, it should be possi- Commissioner, who in turn is advised unprepared, as this sort of fire disaster ble to say ‘OK – what we really should by an Expert Panel of Threatened Spe- has not been factored into Threatened be thinking about is this ecological cies ecologists. They have pulled Species recovery plans. The Hub blue- community over here. It is totally together a robust set of general prior- print suggests that we use the device unique and it is only 10 ha in area, ities around species rescue, feral ani- of a Prospectus, prepared in advance, we really should try and stop this fire mal management (particularly in for either particular areas where you getting through’. It worked for the unburnt patches) and protecting know there is a particular species Wollemi Pine. That was a great prece- waterways, moving later to the inter- under risk or a particular ecological dent. mediate and then longer term tasks. community. That is, there is a need to prioritise TM: Importantly, the Hub where the unburnt patches are in the TM: Predator management and blueprint also notes that there is landscape and to prioritise those to go herbivory management around no pre‐existing national plan to and look at on the ground. That will those Threatened Species have to guide a national post‐fire be particularly important be really well targeted. environmental response and that where those patches contain Threat- CD: It really does. And I think that how we manage this post‐fire ened Species or Endangered Ecologi- there are some great opportunities emergency will help us be better cal Communities. And then, when now to think of pest management prepared to respond to future you’ve got those priorities organised, more broadly. The fires most likely ones. Two needs strike me – one ensure appropriate management will have reduced the populations of is the ability to coordinate a depending on the species that happen pest species anyway, but also it is response with many, many to be left in those patches. For exam- likely that many pest species will be players and second is the ability ple, if it’s anything small and furry, the congregating around unburnt patches to identify priorities that those major risk is going to be cats and in the landscape. For many of the big- players can then move on. foxes; if it is anything medium‐sized ger ones like deer, they will be more CD: I think that the task of coordi- and furry, it’s likely to be foxes; if visible, so it is an opportunity to nation is a work in progress at the it’s something like rock‐wallabies that reduce their populations before the moment. In at least the first month already live in reasonably predator‐ vegetation starts to regrow and it after the national scale of the disasters proof habitats, then it’s probably becomes harder to spot them as they became clear, I hadn’t seen anything going to be the availability of food. begin to disperse away again from functioning as a central coordinating And food is going to be, of course, a the unburnt patches where there is authority that was providing advice longer term concern for any of the some food. Although it may be and that is something that is desper- other mammals and birds that manage unpalatable, especially in the wake ately needed. All the organisations I to get through, irrespective of imme- of huge faunal losses, any overabun- know who are doing anything about diate predation problems, which is dant native animals, such as macrop- it have been fielding two or three why so much of the focus of fauna ods, that are presenting risk to orders of magnitude more calls and rescue groups has been on establish- vegetation recovery may need to also emails, and it has been tough. Organi- ing food and water stations in some be considered for management. sations are working largely in the dark key areas. Good examples of where about what their role might be, with- supplementary food has helped TM: Do you think it’sisan out knowing whether there is duplica- already are the vegetable drops for important opportunity to do tion or potential for synergies. I think brush‐tailed rock‐wallabies in NSW some aerial shooting of some of things will improve as time goes on, and the provision of ’bogong bikkies’ these species? That is going to be but this is something that we must for the Critically Endangered moun- difficult with respect to feral have in place immediately after the tain pygmy possum in the alpine horses, given the social context. next bush fire. region. Longer term efforts include CD: I think it is a great opportunity On the task of identifying priorities, planning to respond to the need for to aerially cull deer. Absolutely, and the federal Environment Minister, reintroducing the food plants of some there needs also to be action on feral Sussan Ley, has been taking a lead in Threatened Fauna, for example, horses. Horses are of course a flagship conducting Ministerial Roundtables restocking the fire‐sensitive mountain species for stirring controversy about

6 ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd EMR INTERVIEW their values and impacts, and this emergency response through the Min- more open areas, serrated tussock makes effective management difficult. isterial Roundtable. The Minister and grass and other things will come up. But for me, and I think for many ecolo- Threatened Species Commissioner’s In Koscziusko, there are a number of gists who are aware of the immense office know about them. Whether environmental weeds that have just damage that feral horses are doing to they are going to be rolled out in par- popped up, partly after other kinds our fragile ecosystems, the current situ- ticular critical areas, I am not sure, but of disturbances such as grazing or ation represents a great opportunity to the information is out there. trampling by horses, and of course humanely reduce horse populations. the firefighting effort itself may well Cat control is problematic because TM: These unburnt areas will have brought in more weeds. It is they don’t like baits and baits are the hopefully allow colonisation in a one of the big problems. Weeds, of standard thing that have been used nucleating pattern after the fire. course, do the job of exploiting dis- to try and get rid of them. You can And in areas where weeds have turbed areas so well. When the early do it of course by shooting and trap- been a problem, weed removal post‐fire colonisers are introduced ping but that is very intensive and work to advantage natives over species, we have a real problem on you can only do it over small areas. weed can also be very fruitful – our hands. It might be worth thinking about but that would need to be some exciting new technologies, and prioritised on the basis of TM: So managing these the innovative ‘Felixer’ traps spring urgency or Endangered ecosystems really does need an to mind here as being one really good ecosystem or Threatened Species understanding of disturbance opportunity (Fig. 5). presence. ecology and an ability to time CD: Yeah, that’s right. It is really responses to get maximum TM: What do those traps do? one of the big potential problems to return on investment. CD: They are multiple use; that is, keep an eye on. There are so many CD: Yes, given the vast areas that they can kill many cats once set up. environmental weeds out there. Even have been burnt, getting the expertise Imagine something about the size of in some of the most remote forest and even (clean!) boots on the a suitcase, standing on its end. You areas, the first things that pop up are ground into all the areas where man- can put the device on the ecotone blackberry or lantana. In some of the agement is going to be most effective between the burnt and unburnt parts of the environment. We know that cats like to patrol ecotones, picking off animals that are moving in between the burnt and unburnt areas and will then move from there into burnt areas to pick off any further survivors there. The Felixer traps emit infrared beams in a particular combination. The idea is that the device will fire only if a cat passes in front of the beams and breaks a particular combination of them – and then, it sprays a poison gel on the shoulder or flanks of the cat. The device really exploits the fas- tidiousness of cat grooming behaviour. If the cat feels the gel – ooh what’s that on my shoulder – it will turn around and lick it off and then will get a dose of the poison. If it is a swamp wallaby or something else that passes by it’ll With so few animals surviving extensive fire (and some of those being native preda- break a different combination of infra- Figure 5. tors), control of introduced pest predators is an essential step in the short‐term response to fire. red beams and the device won’t fire. Pictured here is the Felixer trap, an innovative device targeting feral cats that depends upon their ‐ It’s been field tested and modified to fastidious grooming behaviour and size and shape detection beams. This is one of a number of get it just right. innovative approaches that could be rolled out for pest predator control at the interface between The Felixer trap came up as being burnt areas and unburnt refuges. (Photograph: John Read). one of the possibilities of the post‐fire

ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION 7 EMR INTERVIEW and beneficial is not going to be easy. for it to ameliorate the genetic effects that is followed. Ideally that would be That is the sort of thing we have and fragmenting effects of the fires. something that is in the Prospectus – talked about in the Prospectus and We could ameliorate these effects, to have already identified some areas will be really very valuable to build potentially by bringing individuals where a translocation may be possible into Recovery Plans for Threatened from selected populations into captiv- and desirable to pre‐empt the effects Species in the future. But we don’t ity and making sure they survive and of a really big disturbance like a bush- need to wait; I think we can start writ- using them as insurance populations fire going through. ing them now. and as seeds for either restocking One really good example is Gilbert’s And we need to bear in mind that the same areas or bolstering other potoroo in Western Australia. That was Threatened Species of course only populations elsewhere. It is really a really rare species when it was redis- cover a small proportion of the spe- quite important. That is what zoos covered in the 1990s, and only had cies that are sliding; many others just will often try to do, particularly when about 40 or 50 individuals (at most) haven’t been necessarily listed yet. species are down to their last few in one small population at Two Peo- We have not really worried very individuals. ple’s Bay near Albany. The habitat at much about the more common spe- The northern and southern corro- the site was very dense, which is cies, but many of these also need spe- boree frogs are probably good exam- why the species had survived as well cial attention. ples. When their sphagnum bog as it had; cats and foxes couldn’t get habitat was being chewed up by the into it as it was too dense for them TM: Will reintroduction of fauna fires in 2003 and the species were suf- to get in to hunt. But the habitat was play a role in the recovery, fering from Chytrid fungus as well, also really vulnerable to being burnt, whether for Threatened Species they would have gone to the wall and if it did burn, then the whole pop- or more common species? Are had it not been for captive breeding ulation would go. Only a few years rescued animals going to play an programmes. The ACT government, ago, the Western Australian govern- important role in maintaining or Taronga Zoo and Zoos Victoria were ment captured some Gilbert’s potor- rebuilding gene pools? instrumental in keeping the corro- oos and put them onto Bald Island. CD: Yes, I think they will. It’s likely boree frogs going. Individuals have They went through the IUCN process to vary between species. For exam- since been reintroduced to fenced of making sure that there was nothing ple, with possums, I suspect it is unli- areas in the species’ original habitats else on Bald Island that would be kely that most of the possums that are that were burnt during these fires, affected (quokkas also occur on the put back will survive because we with good proportions surviving, island, but use different habitat) and know from past work that these ani- demonstrating the value of this that it was a suitable environment, that mals are highly susceptible to preda- approach. there was enough food, and so on. tion from feral cats and foxes. But, They went ahead with the transloca- for wombats and koalas that are big- TM: The Hub blueprint also tion, and the animals are doing very ger and better able to hold their referred to potential for some well there. Soon afterwards, in 2015, own, the chances of restoring and populations of some Threatened a huge fire went through Two People’s returning many individuals of these Species being translocated into Bay and the mainland population was species are probably much better. areas where they previously wiped out. So that was a great exam- haven’t been, emphasising the ple of positive, forward‐thinking con- TM: Is there also potential for need for contingency planning to servation action. captive breeding to ensure avoid those actions having an conservation of any genetically impact on the receiving TM: The need for temporary unique populations? ecosystem. This would allow for enhancement of habitat is CD: That sort of genetic rescue is ex situ conservation in the wild’ another point made in the Hub going to be potentially quite impor- as it were. blueprint – including the idea of tant for some species – but it will be CD: That’s right – and of course installing artificial shelter probably just a small subset of all the there are some really good guidelines structures in some of the habitats species we could do it for. It will be prepared by the IUCN that provide a of Threatened Species around the the ones that we know a little bit recipe for all the things that you would refugia and unburnt areas. How more about and the ones that are a need to tick off before you do such useful could that be to protect bit bigger and charismatic. Genetic translocations. It wouldn’t be a matter wildlife from predation? rescue is one thing that we haven’t of just grabbing animals, or plants, and CD: I think it can be very useful, if explored much in the Hub blueprint putting them over here and hoping for well designed. I received some fund- as yet, but there is a lot of potential the best. There should be a process ing 7–8 years ago to install some

8 ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd EMR INTERVIEW artificial shelters post‐fire in the desert (Fig. 6), and these worked pretty well. So I put in for funding through the Australian Laureate Fel- lowships programme, two years in a row, to expand the idea to look at providing post‐fire protection in a wide range of other habitats. The reviews came back saying ‘This isn’t very original. Why do you think fire is going to have these dramatic effects anyway?’ So, I couldn’t get the money, but I think the idea is still valid and I have been talking to peo- ple about it. Artificial shelters are now being used by researchers and managers in the Otway Ranges in Vic- toria post‐fire, in Western Australia, in Boolcoomatta in South Australia, and I think also in the Cooktown area post‐ ‐ fire. Artificial refuge structures are Figure 6. Immediate post fire actions to support Threatened Fauna emerging in a barren land- scape need to be part of a prepared response to large‐scale environmental emergencies. One also being used in the post‐fire envi- such action is the installation of artificial shelters to protect small animals from predation. These ronment on Kangaroo Island to pro- structures on Ethabuka Reserve in western Queensland have inspired other trials of such artificial tect remnant populations of the shelters in other ecosystems post‐fire. (Photograph: Chris Dickman). Kangaroo Island dunnart. Of course, any materials that are used to create these structures need to be clean to fuel burning, all the narratives at the There is also talk about increasing be sure we don’t bring in weeds or moment being about whether we salvage logging at the moment in diseases. should continue to dig up coal or some of the burnt areas. We know We could also do better at leaving whether we should be exploiting gas that salvage logging post‐fire can be whatever natural structure remains to a greater extent, and the whole very damaging to the environment. after a fire. The tendency is to ’clean renewables debate. Clearly, we You are going in there with heavy up’ but, rather than going out and just should be going down the renewables equipment, taking out the trees and cleaning up after a fire, I think we route to a much greater extent than causing all kinds of problems from need to leave whatever burnt logs we are. In fact, Australia is not doing an erosion point of view, so that are there for the structure they pro- too badly in this regard, but it is sim- catchments clog up in the wake of vide. Leaving existing structures and, ply because people are doing it rather the salvage operations. So it is not if possible, adding to them so that than the government providing any great. we can provide continued protection leadership. Another of the ideas going around for small species that otherwise we But beyond that, and what I think is that we need to be reducing the know will be vulnerable to cat and we should be looking at much more fuel loads by thinning forest habitats. fox predation, has got to be a key part carefully, is our management of the But as soon as you thin the forest, of post‐fire recovery. forest and woodland estate. We still you let in more light through the clear land at a breathtaking rate. For canopy and that helps to dry the leaf TM: The very big question is what a developed country to be land clear- litter, as does the increase in wind can be done to avoid a repeat of ing at the rate that we do is just stun- speed: with a reduction in wood den- the tragedy? The Hub blueprint ning. There are so many studies now sity, you have greater wind speeds. So states that the only long‐term that show that when you take away those two factors are likely to increase solution is climate change tracts of woodland or forest, you have the rate of drying in thinned forests mitigation at a scale that reduces local and then regional effects on the and, in addition to any effects that the risk of severe post‐fire climate. The more forest you have there might be on the local climate, droughts’. the more likely you are to get rainfall you are much more likely to get fires CD: Yes, there are many considera- when the conditions are right. So land in thinned forests than in forests that tions surrounding the level of fossil clearing is a really big issue. have never been touched.

ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION 9 EMR INTERVIEW

Another aspect of this is that, it could be very hard to apply in some and we might be able to identify attri- where you have more intact forests contexts. The key thing here, though, butes about those patches. Perhaps you’ve got greater likelihood of more and what distinguishes cultural burn- they were in areas where there was animals like bandicoots working over ing from extensive cool season fuel a more shallow water table. Perhaps the forest floor, turning the leaf litter reduction burning, is that each burn they didn’t burn because they were and organic material back into the is on a small scale and doesn’t result already moist – along riparian strips, soil. So you are both increasing car- in very large areas of homogeneous for example, or had particular aspects bon storage and reducing the fuel burned country. That’s one of the or topographic features. Can we repli- load if you have increased numbers problems that can arise with cool sea- cate any such features in the future? If of these engineering species. Some- son burning. Cool season burning we can’t, are there things we can do times, these suites of interactions are doesn’t really have the effect of stop- to manage future fires – and their not well appreciated, but the bottom ping very big fires such as those in impacts – better? line is that we need more conserva- the current fire season, but it can have One example of proactive manage- tion, not less. the effect of reducing biodiversity. ment might be with respect to flying There is also is talk that we need to Mosaic burning in strategic areas foxes. We know that these animals be burning much larger areas more would seem a much more sensible get incredibly stressed by high tem- frequently. That’d be just awful from strategy than what the Victorian gov- peratures; they can’t lose enough heat a biodiversity point of view; and it ernment did after the Black Friday and die. But in western Sydney, there wouldn’t stop the big fires anyway. fires, mandating 5% of the state’s pub- is some predictive mapping going on The NSW Fire Commissioner, Shane lic land to be burned every year, that allows researchers to identify Fitzsimmons, made that point right which essentially meant most of the where and when climatic hot spots at the start. He said ’look we have conservation estate being burned are going to be. They have sprinklers been doing cool season burning. most of the time. set up so that they can cool the bats These fires come right over the top The complexity of the situation down by watering them. Obviously, and there is nothing you can do to probably suggests a need for a that is at a very local scale, but it stop them in that situation’. Strategi- national authority that reviews the may be that we have to look at taking cally placed control burns during the available evidence and helps direct those sorts of actions for particular cooler times of year will continue to targeted research to make the picture species at particular risk. For exam- be important as part of the ’tool kit’ a lot clearer and advocate for doing ple, that might extend to koalas in for fire management, but are likely the right thing. At the moment, there some areas. Then, when the big fires to be most effective in years that are are so many calls to let livestock into do come, provided we have been able not exceedingly dry and hot, as was national parks, thin the forests or to get some parts of the landscape the case in 2019. burn all the time – but it makes no that are less likely to be in the way sense. We probably need an authority of the really big fire fronts, we will TM: Perhaps ways could be found that can really counter these sorts of be able to go straight in with recovery to create patchiness without opinions much more forcefully than actions. We should be able to identify creating more fragmentation. we currently are able to do, using them quickly and go in and assess Whatever the case, broad brush good science as the most effective what’s there, using whatever detec- generalisations are unlikely to be counter. tion method is appropriate to the spe- useful. The situation needs to be cies of concern, and then, we should considered in much finer level. TM: If we get the confluence of try to make sure that whatever addi- CD: Yes, it really calls attention to extreme dryness and extreme tional threats they are likely to face the need for much more targeted heat as we had last year, and we (whether lack of food, or predation), monitoring in a much wider range of are being told this is more likely we can protect the species to the systems. But creating effective patchi- under climate change, we’ll get degree that we can. And that will ness also shows we should re‐engage these fires again. What will we mean having these plans in place with Indigenous people to a much do next time when they come before these big fires come through. greater degree about cultural burning around? What have we learned Now, we are just improvising. But practices. It’s not to say that cultural from these fires? we need to be prepared with rapid burning or something like it would CD: Over the next year or two, we response teams and contingency be the be – all and end – all solution can probably learn a lot from the cur- plans for this sort of thing in the – it probably wouldn’t stop the really rent fires. Once it is safe to go back future. big fires going through when very dry into the burnt country, we can iden- Another thing that we have learned and very hot conditions prevail, and tify where the unburnt patches are as a consequence of these fires is that

10 ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd EMR INTERVIEW everyone wants to help. On the one portfolio, standing on its own, in had had with previous fires. The Vic- hand, this is a very positive response. terms of status in Cabinet. When it is torian response to the fires was imme- On the other, it brings some chal- combined with Water or Agriculture, diate and very impressive, in contrast lenges. There are very many separate as it is currently, it is very likely that to other States that had not had this efforts to help going on at the individ- these portfolios will take precedence prior experience. ual level (people knitting kangaroo over anything environmental. It’s now time for all levels of gov- pouches, building nest boxes), at the Bushfire response linkages need to ernment, non‐government organisa- community level in organisations also come down to the State level, of tions and communities to do the such as WIRES, at the institutional course, because that is where the best we can to optimise our collective level in universities, the Academy of recovery actions will be largely under- response to these fires – and to learn Science, the natural history and zoo- taken. There is already some great from that experience so that we can logical societies, the Hub, CSIRO, experience in this regard. In Victoria, be better prepared for next time. and at different levels of government. for instance, the response to the fires There will be a next time. And the So everybody is doing things but we was really swift. The state govern- maintenance of our precious biodiver- are not necessarily talking to each ment produced a really good, detailed sity demands nothing less than that other. And we really do need to have report, in draft form, on the 8th Jan- we are ready – with the appropriate effective coordination in place. uary, saying what they were going to levels of planning, personnel and Coordination needs to be a federal do in their response to the effects of resources – for the challenges to response simply because these fires, the fires on wildlife. They’d got the come. this time round, are multi‐state, mul- fire mapping under way, they had ‐ ti territory in their extent and impact. got predictions of how much of the Reference It should be part of the portfolio range of all of their state‐Threatened responsibilities of the Environment Species were likely to be affected, Dickman C., Driscoll D., Garnett S. et al. (2020) After the catastrophe: A blueprint for a con- Minister, linked to the Emergency Ser- and they had begun to list a series of servation response to large-scale ecological vices Minister. And environment recovery actions. This alacrity was disaster. Threatened Species Recovery Hub. needs to be seen as a really important probably due to the experience they [Epub ahead of print].

ª 2020 Ecological Society of Australia and John Wiley & Sons Australia, Ltd ECOLOGICAL MANAGEMENT & RESTORATION 11