Project for Folksong In America
Cheryl Hudson May 2.5, 1973 Fo 134 8:1600°. u '3.,:<.:
! .·
'· When this project started, .the plan was to interview several people, in their early twenties or so, ·who played guitar and sang. A primary reason was to find out if one could generalize about them as a group, to see if they had gone through similar "stages" of doing things musically as they had progressed, well, maybe not progressed, .but at least stages they had . gone . through since they learned _to ·play. The original intentions had been to interview people ranging from amateur to· rather professional, but this pr9ved to be slight- ly over-ambitious. People were not as easy to get ,and interview as I had anticipated, and being excited about the project, I had
undere~tlmated the amount of work involved. Perhap~ 1t is · just. as well, for' it ended up that there was enough material to work wt.th, but not· so much as at throughly overwhelm me.
I interviewed four people, and then also ui:~ed . m;}[se.lf and my experiences·, as well as the knowledge I have of other people who were not interviewed. George Murphy was the first person I talked with. He is neither an excellent guitar player, nor does he have the stereotype "good" voice, but he has, at many . times, played around at coffeehouses and more nightclub type places for money.
Cathy Johnson was · the ne~t person interviewed. She was the least proficient, musically. She plays mainly b8:sic chords and
does not sing well (does no.t hit notes right on pitch, or hold J
t~em there). She has played publically, but only for those in 2
81..60005 her residential area where she first went to college. She has never gotten paid, and does not plan to ever get p~id. Then Bob fl{arrington, he is a rather proficient guitar player and from what others have told me, an acceptable singer. He has just recently started performing publically and had gotten paid for some of this, Lastly I talked with Jeff Futterman, who is the most profes- sional of all. He plays the best, sings very well, and has per- formed the m~$t and; gotten paid more often than the others. He is the only one who has gone so far as to study gui't;ar at a music school. And just recently, came out as one of several performers on a locally (University of Maine coffeehouse) produced al~um.
Myself, I play moderf:ltely well and sing with less expert~c.e . than I play with. I have performed some, but never gotten paid, and ~ever plan to get paid. The other people that I am taking into consideration are good friends that play, or used to play guitar, and various other acquaitances I hRve made in the time since I first started pa.lying and became aware of guitars. (~hat was about seven years ago.) The rough list of questions that I used to help me through '•' ' . the interviews is in the back s~ction of this paper along with the diary, the transcribed interviews, and the notes taken when talking to .Jeff. In looking over the information, it appeared that generaliza- tions were possible, but that there were certain divisions into groups according to sex, and the age at which the person learned to play guitar, 3 . 8160006 Geroge and Jeff both had started to play when they were about
twelve ~ears old. Each had been given an acoustic sic string guitar by someone in the family and had started to learn the contemporary music of the rimes Del Shannon, and the early Beatles for example. They were mostly self-taught, learning songs from records or books, figuring out songs they knew already, and learning by occassoihally watching someone else play. In junior high, they got into electric guitar. They each played in a band doing music like the Trogs, or more Beatles. Here they first started performing tn public, playing for free at ·1ocal dances. When they got to high school, each returned to mainly acoustic playing and they started doing the contemporary folk music:
Dylan; P~ter, Paul, and Mau_; anct Simon_.. and Garfunk~ for example. At this point, the extremely close parallel starts to break.
From here, _Jeff got into music like that of Nell .IQJ.m&-~nd James Taylor, and some of his own music in this same style. He was interested 1n guitar enough so that after his first year of college he left tc attend Berklee School of Music to study jazz guitar. He stayed for a year, and then decided that he did not like the music business. He prefers to play what and when he wants to.
He has continued to play a lot and per~orm . for money. At this time he is still into Neil Young and James Taylor, but also more into his own compositions. From the year at Berklee there is a distinct jazz influence in much of his playing. George meanwhile, did not get into the same people. He started doing more pylan, Tom Rush, some Leonard Cohen, some blues. Most recently there has been more of a country music style about him, doing music of Kris Kristofferson an4 Doug Kershaw. He has 4 81.60007
never studied music, and also never got into doing a lot with
writing his own songs. He has not performed as extensiv~11 , as ~ _ Jeff; but has gotten paid many times. It seems clear here, that these two people who started at the same age both went through parallel stages. They grew up in dif ferent areas, at no time when the two are 'Spoken of as '!,they" was
it meant to imply that~~orge and Jeff _grew up together. What I found with them does seem to flt in with what I know of other guys who learned at aout the same age and time, especiaily the stage of playing electric guitar for - a while, and then returning to acoustic. Bob Harrington is a different case. He did not start to
learn to play unt~l he was nineteen. ·Starting at this age, he never went through the folk stage, nor does he show interest in electric guirats. He started right into music like that of Loggins and Messina; Crosby, Stills and Nash, and especially that of Neil Young. He ha.s not taken lessons, but was taught to play by a
friend, and so is less self-taught than.Jl.eor~_ and _Jeff. He
~tarted performing, and getting paid some within less than a year from when he started learning. Although he became proficient more
quickly than _Jeff and ~ge, he has not had the experience with as wide a range of music as they have. It seems tha the other people I know that also learned when they were about this age, or
older (my two rocmmates for example) were also tau~ht a lot by those that they knew who played, and like Bob, none of them had
pre~iously played any other instrument. At the time that they learned, they had seen many others play, and also had friends who 5 8160008 played. In comparison, both the males and the females who learned when they were about twelve had played other instruments already, did not know others who played guitar, and they mostly taught them selves.
With Cathy and I, our stages are somewhat parailel to those of Georg~ and Jef!~ but also divergent, and I think that this is because we are females. We both atarted at about twelve years of age, with a guitar that some one in the family had given us, Each
of us, like George and _l_eff, had played another instrument previous ly. We both got into "f'olk" music, Joan Baez, :pete Seeger, and then into . Simo~ and ~arfunkle, Peter Paul and Mar y, Judy Collins and Jqni Mitchell. I also got into Wylan, and Ehil Ochs, and then later ~ell Young and James Taylor. Neither of us ev~r took lessons or has gotten paid for a performance. But both of us have perfor med at different times. Cathey does not do any music of her 0wn and I have only started to, In comparison to George and Jeff, we have performed less and stayed more trad1tionaliy and folk oriented than they.
It seems here then, that why and how people learn to play varies with age. And what they learn varies with both age and sex. ·
It was interesting~ during the interviews, to see that some people clearly perc1eved the stages they had gone through, whereas others did not appear to become aware of these stages until we were talking. Many things, though, that I had never ~hought about be fore, like the types of divisions bdtween groups that appeared, now seem so obvious. It seems to be a case of actually seeing what 6 8:160009 is there instead of just looking at it. One other thing that I was interested in during the inter- views was the concept of professionalism. I wanted to know what they thought make a person a profession~l. Generally they agreed that if someone gets paid, and makes a living from their music, then they are professionals. But there are differences between professionals. There are some who make a living and are not really competant players, and there are others who ~re competant (and sometimes cannot make a living.) An example given of a non profess1onalrprofessional was Jamie Brockett. He was compared tb John Hartford. Jamie can sing, ·and play some, sure, but John , Hartford is an excellent guitar player, and he can also sing well. Professionalism seems to relate more to competantcy with the in strument than with the singing. I would like to see more interviews done with people to see if the stages I found show up consistantly. To see if what I have said needs to be revised or remains true. I was w~ndering while
I was inte~viewing if the area of the country someone was from ; might also have an effect on when they learned to play, or what they learned to play. If they were urban or rural, or if someo~e else in the family played, what effect this would have. There is more to be drawn from even my material, more conclusions to be made, but I think that many will hA.ve to wait until there is more information on more people available. This is why I would like to see more done with this. It seems like such an exciting new area to look into. This is the rough list of questions used in the interviews.
What ·is your name and present age? When did you learn to play? How did you learns teach yourself, or take lessons? How old were you? Where were you living? Why did you learn? Did other people play that you knew? Did you sing? Why or why not? What did you learn to play? Did you learn from books, records, other people? Where did you play? · At home? What kind of guitar did you have? Where did you getj tt? Did you play any other instruments? What style did you learn to play in? What styles did you work into? Why? Who taught ~ou, or how did you learn? Who has influenced you the most? Do you have the same guitar still? If new one, why? What kind did you get, Why? Who do you play for? ~ Who have you played for? When did you start performing? Why? Ho~ did you start performtng? Did you ever stop t p~rforming? Why? For how long? Did you ever stop playing? Why? For how long? Under wha t conditions do you play? Do you play different songs for your own enjoyment and for performance? What co you consider a performance? How well do you think you play? Do you like to see others do music like you play? Do you go to. see others? Have you taught others to play? When do you enjoy playing the most? If you do not perform, do you plan to? Is there some sort of music you would like to get into? What did other people think of your playing guitar when you first started? Did other people encourage or discourage your playing? What is the large$t place you have ever played for? Local or what? How well known are you locally7 How of ten do you perform? Do you wrtte songs? What kind? Do you perform them? For whom? Why do you write songs? Do you hope to get somewheres with this? Do you consider yourself professional or amateur? Why? What is a professional? Who do you consider a professional, Why? Are there differences between types of professionals?
This is just a rough list, and I never followed it, but used it as a guide. 81600:l ~l
Notes from interview with Jeff Futterman, May 10, 1973. _Jeff- 22 years old 11 years old got first guitar, had gotten a ukelele at 9 years old and could play the ukelele self-taught got started because a camp counselor played guitar
started with contemporary music of the time1 Bobby Darin Del Shannon Beatles then got an electric guitar and was in a group in junior high school doing rock and roll (the Trogs for exam;le) then folk music in high school started performing with a friend doing folk music and Peter Paul and Mart and _Simon and Garfunkle type· music Then into writing own music under the influence of James Taylor and Neil Young then just his own type of music. quit after his first year of college to study music a Berklee for one year There he got into jazz, and arranging and composition decided he did not like the music business as such that much so dropped out of Berklee and got a sitar · now into his own stuff and some like Neil Young and James Taylor still show strong jazz influence from the year at music school plays a little clarinet, piano and sitar also very] competant, good singer, has performed a lot Notes on Jeff Futterman cont. Felt that the biggest crises were getting to where he felt he could sing well ·enough to perform in public ( he started singing when he started playing) and getting to the point where he felt that the music could say it all feels that a professional 1s someone who is competant and makes a living from the music but then some make a living and are not competant, and many Who are competant cannot seem to make a living from it ·. . 816001.~;
Northeast Archives of Folklore and Oral History. Accession number
816. Interview with: Bob Harrington. April 15,1973.
C = Cheryl Hudson; interviewer
B= BOb Harrington; informant
c: um·~ okay, what 1 s your name and your present age? B: Robert T. Harrington, twenty.
C: Oh, what't the T. stand for?
B: Thomas. C: When did you learn to play guitar?
B: September, this year. C: Just this past year? (B: Um.) How did you learn to play? I mean like
B: Well I just, ah, yea,I just like learned some, ah, I knew some
chords, when I came, about five chords when I came to school. And
C: How did you learn those? B: I just, ah, you know, seen, talking to people play. Cause I always
liked people playing guitar, so I learned the chords you know. I
learned, just learned like maybe five or six chords and, ah just
enough to just bang around, with it. And then when I came to school
I wanted to learn to play so I bought a guitar.
C: What kind? B: Bought a fender, a really good fender guitar.
C: Six string steel, right?
B: Yea, right. And ah then this kid happened to move in next door,· -
David moved in next door. So I ah, you know he played really well.
He just started teaching me songs with what I knew. And ah most
of the songs that he taught me had the chords in them, but they haa
new ones too, so I kept learning new chords, and then new songs. -2- 8160015 And then after a while I got so that I could listen, listen to like a
~ecord and pick, pick you know , songs out and I'd know what the chords
were , and I'd just start off basically you know, with the very
simple progression, and build on that and then com out almost the
same as the album did. And then sometimes I'd change it around iL
I didn't like they way they did a certain thing, then I just change
it around my own way. And some, some other people I played with tau-
ght me music, you know, a little bit of music theory so that I
could ah change keys if I want to,and things like that. So that's
basically how I learned to play.
C: When you're learning songs do you usually listen to records, or from
other people, or from books? B: Ah I never, never use books because books aren't produced, they never
produced them correctly. They always produce them so an idoit can
play it. And ah, I learn very few from records, the songs I want
to learn I pick up from albums, you know, I,I hear it on an album and
I know I want to learn it. And them if I'm someplace and someone's
playing the song you know, I get him to either' teach it to me or
watching them perform, I watch them play it, and pick it up like that.
But mostly, I, most of the songs I learn from other people. Getting
them to show me. And the rest I figure out by myself. Which is
about ten percent.
C: Was there any special reason why you decided to you know, learn to play?
B: No. I don't- I can't explain it. I just wan- I just got a feeling this summer that I wanted to learn to play. So I went out and bought
a guitar and decided to play.
C: Um. Do you always sing when you play? B: Not when I first started I didn't but-
C: Why not? -3- 8160~l16 . . B: Well because it was so hard just to play everything, you know, I mean
everything was so new to me and then when I, ah, you know, I had
to spend a lot of time in concentration just learning, and getting it
down. But once I , once I could play a song fluently, then I would,
then I would ah start singing. And that took a while, to learn to
$ing right, but just recently it's been working out very well. C: Do you play any other instrument?
B: No.Nothing.
C: Okay. What style would you say that you played in?
B: Style? Style. If I had-mostly as far as guitar is concerned.9.nst
a lot of flat picking, you know, style wise, flat picking. But
music it's mostly ah, mostly contemporary music, things written you
know within the past ten years.
C: Like, by whom?
B: Ah, gee.
C: Well, who would you say has influenced you most?
B: Ah, Neil Young.
C: Okay, and ah, who else do you do songs by?
B: Ah, Bob Dylan, ah, Eric Clapton, . ah, Jesus, ah, a lot by Neil Young,
most of the stuff I know is by Neil Young. And then a lot of other
varied people. Some Rod Stewart, ah, things that can be done,
that are electric, and can be done acoustically, like "Stairway to
Heaven", we do that one. And ah, ah now, let's see, "The Ashes Of
The- Rain and I" yea, by ah, James Gang did that. So it's really
var~ed you know, but it',i~-p:;::G11bably-, it_:~· S-t; . )nost.of; ;;i,t .stems £1.:i;om Neil
Young, it's ah, I follow what's his style pretty much • . I·: C: 1Has this like been the influence since last fall? I B: Yea, exactly.
C: When you play, do you usually play by yourself or with other people? -4- 816001.7 B: In the beginning I did a lot by myself, but now I'm playing with
other people. You know, just one person now, just . David. But generally now I play with other people, that's what I like to do.
C: How much have you performed publically?
B: Ah, three times probably.
C: Down at the coffeehouse?
B: Twice there, once in Vermont, and once, then next week again, sol
C: Do you usually do this with .David?
B: i always, ah, I usually go with David. I, I guess now I'll be
doing things by myself, we'll be like trading off. He'll do one,
I'll do one, we'll do one together, he'll do one, I'll do one, like
that.
C: You've gotten paid for this, right?
B: Well, kind of. It's a paid job supposedly.
C: Do you consider yourself at all professional?
B: No. B: Professional? Professional. I guess someone that that's all he does.
You know. I mean not that he doesn't have any other interests, it's
just all, he doesn't go to school too, you know, he just plays
guitar. Taht1 would be professional.
C: Does he- do you thing that someone has to get paid for it to be
professional?
B: Pardon Me?
C: Do you think someone has to get paid for it?
B: Yea. Well I don't think money should be a con- an over-riding factor,
but you have to get, if you're going to devote youself to it, be professional, you have to live, , you have to get paid. C: You think someone could go to school and be professional at the same time?
B: um, no, I don't think so. Not and do a very good in both of them. '0-rmtfrt;f /"f."' fi~ ·-·8 -5- 8:, ovUJ.i_ C: Um, who . specifically would you consider a professional? You know,
who· fits your concept of professional guitarist? B: Professional guitarist? Neil Young fits it, very well. C: Oh, when you first started playing, did other people encourage
or discourage your playing? B: A little bit of both, [laughs] No. Mostly, mostly people encour-
aged. You know, very few people would say no you don't sound good, you should quit. Only a few. C: Oh, do you write songs at all yourself?
B: Um, I want to. I'm starting. I've written a couple like just
instrumental pieces, nothing with words in it yet. I think, like I 1 11
do one, I should finish one, I hope, by friday, that'll be, ah,
that'll be a poem I wrote put to words. You know, put to music I
mean. C: Do you plan to perform this?
B; Yea, that's what I want to do by this friday, I want to try and
get it don by friday. C: Are you going to play this weekend?
B: Yea. C: Really, where?
B: At the coffeehouse, probably (C:Reall~?) Yea. C: Are these like ·in the same style as the others? The other types of things you do?
B: Ah, I'd say, only in the sense that it's flat picked. But as far as, you know, chord progressions and things like that you know, musical
progressions, it's not. It's it's something totally different. And
It'd also very very quiet too, very quiet song, which is never ah, ~
everything else I do is kind of, kind of loud and kind of moves. I
do very ·few songs that are quiet, you know, like your Joni Mitchell -6- Bi.60019 and things like that. You know, that particular style I don't do. C: Yea. Is that, like, is that what you're planning to get into with
music is writing it? Like do you see yourself going someplace with,
heading towards ah,. another style, or getting to some specific aspect of it?
B: No. No I don't think so. I 1 m- I'm not looking for something, I'm
just ah, I'm just playing and learning as much as I can because I
just enjoy, I just enjoy .playing, so I'm doing it more for my own
pleasure than anything else. Just kind of like something to relax
me. Which is what it does. C: When do you like playing the most?
B: Night time, early evening. An early evening or real late, like
early in the morning. One o'clock in the mOrning is always fun to
play.
C: Do you like to have people around when you play?
B: It depends on the mood I 1 m in, you know. If I feel-ah~ sometimes,
sometimes I'll be playing by myself and I 1 ll wish there were people
there that could here me because I 1 m getting into what I'm doing
and I want people to hear it. But alot of times I like to, especial-
ly when I'm changing thin9s, changing songs around to suit me better I'm glad I'm alone because I - don't like, I don't want the distract-
ion of people. I don't want to have to feel that I have to entertain. C: Do you, when you do play for people, do you enjoy performing?
B: Ah, yea, I think I do. I was, I used to get, the first time I performed I was really nervous. And that destroyed me. I said now
I'll never play publically again, only for friends. And then the
second time I played we weren't as well practised, and yet it was a lot more natural, came out a lot better. And after that , after
that experience I would say that I'm definitely lookin~ foreward to -7- s:t600Z0 playing again, you know, publically. And I'd like to keep on doing it.
C: Do you play different songs when you perform, than when you play
for yourseld? :B: Ah, no. No. Almost always the same. I don't want to- I play, I play wh.at suits me and what makes me feel good.
C: Do you like to see others play the same type of music as you do?
Like would you go to hear someone doing the same stuff you do?
B: Ah, probably, yes. Because I'd enjoy the songs. And I'd be
curious to see how they did them. See, I don't think anybody does
anybody's piaying is kind of semi-professional you know. Like
you find around here. Everyone kind of does everything their own
way. Have 'little touches they add and things they taRe away and
replace with something else. So it's king of interesting to see
them do it that way, although it doesn't effect me. I wouldn't
go home and try to do it the way they did it. I'd just let it go
at that. I'd go and say qell I enjoyed it, and that's all there is
tp it.
C: Dou you plan to get a different kind of guitar? Or are you satisfied
with the kind you have?
B: Well I like the one I have, but I 1 m going to get another one. I'm
going.to get a, probably a better one. I'll buy a Martha or something
like that. Perhaps an ovation.
C: Yea. Would you stay with six strings?
B: Yea. I wouldn't change and I'd stay with steed too. I'd never play
nylon.
C: Have you ever played a twelve string? Do like it?
B: Well I like the sound, but there's a lot - you can't do as much with
it. You know, it limits you kind of. You can't do- it's really dif
ficult to do lead runs on a twelve string guitar. But for ~ome songs -8- songs they're really good. If you're going to be professional musician
then you ought to have one. I think. They just vary, give variation to what you're doing.
C: Um, oh, what do you t~ink of your singing? B: Difficult questions. C: Like you don't mind hearing yourself sing? B: No.I - again for the time I think it's pretty good. And when I get-I
don't have i1ke ·a really powerful voice, but when I get - when I
have a microphone I can do - I could do a lot more with it. I can
holds notes longer - it gives me confidence for some reason cause
I kqow I don't have to sing really loud and hold it you know. Cause
I - O don't have enough wind in me so I know I can hit the notes and hold them. You know. And the microphone takes ·up for the lack
of the volume.
C: You never sang before you started playing? B: No. I just figured anyone who could play guitar good could sing, just
naturally followed. C: What specifically do you - would you consider a performance? What type of situatuin makes it a performance?
B: When you have to be there en a certain night and when you have to play a certain set of songs. And you have to stick to that set, and you have a limited time to play. And you have to start and finish
when they tell you to start and finish. That's it. That's a
performance I'd say. And when you have to practice weeks in advance for it so it comes out good.
C: Yea. How much would you say that you played during the week? Or a
day? Do you usually play everyday? B: About three hours a day.
C: AH, have you taught anybody else how to play since you've learned? -9-
B: I've taught people songs. Certain songs. I don't think I've ever
really had anybody that I've - I haven't taught anybody to play as such. I've - I've taught people to play songs, but that's about as far as it goes. I've never started with anyone right from, right from .. - scratch. Mainly I don't think I have the ability to teach. C: Taht's about it. Did I ever adk you if you want, if you plan to do more and more performing? B: Yea, you did. Yea. C: Okay, that's it. Northeast Archives of Folklore and Oral History. Acession #816.
Interview with Kathy Johnson, April 13, 1973.
C=Cheryl Hudson, interviewer
J=Kathy Johnson~ informer
C: Ah, okay, what's today?
J: Friday the thirteenth.
C: Okay. And your name is --?
J' Catherina B. Johnson.
C; And your age is--?
J: Twenty-one.
C: Okay, ah, when did you first learn to play guitar?
J: When I was twelve years old.
C: How did you learn to play?
J: I read a book.
C: Did you learn chords from out of a book? (J: Yes) and· all. Oh,
I should have asked first, like, what got you interested in playing?
(J: What?) What got you interested in playing guitar?
J: Um, I don't know. I was just playing all kinds of instruments.
C: Had you seen other people play guitar at all?
J: Not really, no.
C: HOw did you get your guitar?
J: Mr brother bought it, second hand.
C: Um-hum. Did he play?
J: No. He bought it for me.
C: What kind was it?
J: Just a crumby guitar.
C: Six string? -2-
J: Yes, (C: Steel?) Nylon.
C: Nylon? Classical style? (J: Yea) Okay. Ah, so you taught your-
self and all. (J: Yea.) Um, boy you talk fast. [Laughter] I like
to try and pause so it 1 ll take some more time on the tape.
J: Oh I see, I'll talk more slowly.
C: Taht's okay. [more laughter] Ah, have you ever~-did you ever take
lessons? (J: No.) At any time. Have you ever taken lessons?
J: I've never taken~guitar lessons. (C: No? ) No.
C: Um, okay. YOu say you play other instruments. What other instruments do you play, or did you play at that time?
J: Do you really want to know? [Laughter.] C: What other stringed instruments?
J: Um, I play the viloa and I-played the cello.
C: Did you play both of those before uou played the guitar?
J; I started the viola a little bit before that, the guitar? And I
played the cello before. C: Did you have a musical background?
J; Yes. (C: )kay) I also played the piano before. C: Where were you living at the time?
J: In New Haven, Connecticut.
C: Okay. Um, like did any of your friends play? Was guitar a thing that, you know, other people were into?
J: No. None of mu other friends played anything. I was a musical outcast. [Laughter.] C: So why did you pick up guitar?
J: You already asked me that. [Laughs] I don 1 t remember. I just--I
don't know. I just got a guitar. I li- I know why, because I like'
to sing and no one would listen to me sing ..because I have a terrible
voice. So you find a guitar and drown yourself out, it's an excuse -3- 81600?5 for singing. c; Okay. So you started singing when you first started playingo 1J: Yea)
And that's why you started playing, was-
J: Yea, so I could sing. C: What did you first learn to play? What types of songs? J: I used a Pete Seeger Songbook and I learned the first song in the book, which I think is, ah, "Row, Row, Row Your Boat"? Skip-to-my-
Lou, that's what it is. C: Then what type of stuff did you get into? J: Then I progressed through "tt's tenting tonight" and - [breaks into
laughter] C: After Pete Seeger. J: Well, let's see. I guess I went through Simon and Garfunkle after that, and a little bit of Joan Baez. And then I progressed to Judy Collins and Johi Mitchel~and Gordon Lightfoot. C: But you stayed mostly in that, that sort of folk-oriented style
(J: Yes) Who do you think has influenced you the most?
J: Well, you go through stages you know. C: Well, okay, what stages did you -?
J: Well, I went through the Simon and Garfunkle stage for quite a while [breaks into laughter]
C: Yes. What were major stages besides like Simon and Garfunkle? J; Besides Simon and Garfunkle; Judy Collins and Joni Mitchell. C: In that order? J: Yea.
C: So you're in your Joni Mitchell period at this point.
J: At this point? At this point I'm stagnant. C: When you wanted to learn new songs how did you learn them?
J: Mostly from a book, but sometimes from a record. C: Did, um, did you come to a point where like other people were -- you -4- 816CQ26 know like you go places and hear people and other people would teach you songs, did you ever get into that?
J: After I got to cooege, but not before I got to college. I didn't
know anyone else who played.
C: Okay. Um, did you do mostly chords whe n you were playing?
J: Yes, and I still do C: You, you never got into fancy like picking and stuff?
J: Not very much, a little bit. C: Do you still have the same guitar?
J; No, ·I got a new guitar last summer.
C: Was that your -
J: That's the first new guitar I ever had.
C: First new guitar, and what kind was that.
J: It's a Sigma guitar. A Japanese subsidiary of Martin.
C: Okay. Why did you get a new onw?
J; Because I had been wantin' a new one for a long time and, ah I finally
got the money to get one.
C: Why did you get the kind that you did? Like it'a a six string steel,
right?
J: Yea. Well I wanted a steel string guitar. I'd actually been playing a different guitar since I went to college. My roommate had a really
good one, but then when I moved away from her I had to get my own.
And I got a Sigma because that's what Viner's was selling at the time. C: Why did you get six strings and steel, fo·r any special reason?
J: Well, I wanted steel because it's better for the kind of stuff I do.
And six strings because I can't afford a twelve string. C: Oh. Twelve strings aren't .that expensive.
J: :i;: don't hnow how to play twelve string really either. I never played
one. -5- £i' ..., . ~,.., 8.<~... . 6 ~Li ·' C: Um, When you play, who do you play for? Do you play just for yourself?
or for - J: Mostly for myself, now. I used to play a little bit in public but not
recently.
C: Um, when did you play in public? J: When I was at Yale.
C: Um, like what tupe of situation was it? J: We used to have ah fokl conserts sometimes, you know, in my residential college. · Just that kind of thing.
C: Like what size audience was it?
J: One hundred. C: And was it, you. know, were most of the other people doing _the same type of stuff as you, folk-oriented stuff.
J; Well, aBout half of them maybe, you know, and then the other - there was a lot of - more rock and roll type, tooJ
C: Did you ever get paid for any of this? (J: No) Why did you decide to do it? Decide to perform in public - J: I like to perform in public, I admit it. [Laughs] I love it.
C: Are you scared when you do it?
J: Um, not any more, when I worked for the Park [Acadia] I got up in
front of people all the time so I got really used to it then. C: So you don't perform then anymore now?
J: No, nobody wants to listen to me any more as a mater of fact. C: Is that the only reason . why, bedause you don't have opportunities. J: Yea. They're opening a coffeeshop in Bar Harbor though, maybe my
chance will come. C: Do you , when you play now though, lik do you play for friends and stuff.
J: No. None of my friends like to listen to me. -6-
C: , J"11s·tJ·.. .play · ri\(!iis·t:.1 ;¥':"'-'''L:°Or yeu;rself? (J: Yea ) Do you do different thing~,
like when -you're playing for yourself and when you play in concert do
you do different types of songs?
J : Um, well when I play in public I always play songs that are within
my voice range. And when I play for myself I don't always.
C: Yea. But when you go to play by yourself, where do you go?
J: I play in my roon or outside.
C: Um, when you were first learning to play what did people think of your
learning to play?
J : My father used to , ah~ tell me to go upstairs and close the door.
He still does. [Laughs]
C: What do you consider a performance" You know like do you consider
performing when you're for just a couple friends or when you're in
front of a big audience, or for yourself.
J : I consider it a performance if I don't know the people I'm playing for.
C: How well do you think you play?
J: Ah, do I do a scale from one to ten or something?
C: Sure, one to ten, with one being worst and ten being best.
J: Okay, ah, for a folk guitarist I'd say seven.
C: That's good, How do you think you sing? You've mentioned that before.
J : Six, uh, ·five.
C: But you enjoy it? (J: Yea) And you enjoy playing too? (J: Yea)
Which do you enjoy more?
J: Ah, I don't know. Sometimes I like to sing and sometimes I just play.
You know like depends upon the mood I'm in, someti~s I just play the
guitar without singing. Snd sometimes I like to sing.
C: Do you know a lot of things on guitar that aren't meant to be sung to?
J: I can play some now but not that much I'm [words garbled here]
that's what I'm working on now. -7-
C: Is that what you're working towardsin the future ?
J: Yea. I might. I'm trying to get more proficiency with my left hand
C: Um, is there some sort of musical style that you're planning to work
onto? Anything specific?
J: No. ·c: You don't see yourself working towards anything!
J: Not in particular. I don't have an idol at the moment.
C: What do vou think of - ah no, won't get into that yet. How well known
where you when you played locally, like okay, so you said you played
at Yale, right. Were you like sort of known around as a guitar player?
J: Yea, sort of.
C: You know like would someone say you know if they needed someone to play
guitar, 'oh ~athy plays guitar.
J: Yea, in among the people I played for, yea. At Yale there is like a
residential system and there's like four hundred people in my resid~ ential college they all knBw.
C: How often was thie performance?
J: Ah, five or six times. a winter.
C: Um, like did other people encourage or discourage your playing outside
of your family.
J: After I got to Yale I got real encouragement. My boyfriend freshman
year,he was my public relations manager.
C: Have they ever helped finance it. like your buying that guitar, or
buying music or things like that? (J: No) It's all on your own?
J: Yea, I haven't spent that much money except buying my guitar last
surruner.
C: Well, you said you learned mostly out of books, like did you get the books out of the library or did you buy them.
J: Well my mother would. give them to me maybe Christmas or something. -8-
C: um, I want to ask you about professionalism some. Like, um, do you
consider yourself at all professional (J: No) in any way? What do you
consider yourself, an amateur? (J: Yea) Um, who would you consider
professional?
J: Um, Judy Collins, Joni Mitchell. C: um, if someone just get paid for performing do you think they're pro
fessional? J: Um, it depends on the situation I think, Because- not-you know depends
on the situation. But probably usually I guess.
C: Like, well one person that I've talked to was saying like that they
thought a professional was someone that got paid for it but then he
got talking about like professional professionals,_ you know the people that- but there are all different levels of.
J: Uea, well there are like professionals that are mationally known and
then there are people who get paid for playing in your local coffeehouse
and I really don't know if you call them professional or not.