Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche talks about Karmapa's fake Prediction Letter by Situ Rinpoche1

Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche talks about the time of the cremation of HH the 16th Karmapa in December 1981 The next day after the cremation was a meeting. At that time the Rinpoches of all Kagyü schools were there. They excluded all the elders from the meeting and said „only we, the four [regents Shamar, Situ, Kongtrül and Gyaltsab Rinpoche] will decide!“ Nobody knew what they did, they kept it secret.

About the events during and after the meeting of the four regents in 1992 when Situpa presented his „prediction letter“ Later [in 1992] when they showed the letter, Shamarpa didn't accept it. Then they had a huge pproblem. Actually, Jamgön Kongtrül didn't accept it neither. They kicked out Shamarpa, decided to put the letter in a box, let Trizin open it and filmed it. Jamgön Kongtrül wanted to go to to analyze the letter, but he died before [in a car accident]. The biggest mistake was that they excluded the old

1 To be heard on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5-GT5ovYOU Lamas [from the search for the reincarnation], as they would at least have said: „Don't fight!“ [Shamarpa asked Situpa:] „Why did you hide the letter for years? You always have lied!“ Shamarpa left the room. Situpa rejoiced. Jamgön Kongtrül had a doubt but said: „Let's go and see!“ Everybody had a photocopy of the letter. Shamarpa's uncle [he speaks of his cousin Topga Rinpoche] had written a refutation of the letter. I've read it. The Karmapa Papers I've read from front to back. I don't trust the letter but I think the reincarnation is fine. We did a drupchö [practice retreat] in in front of 's kudung. Copies of the letter were distributed. [in November 1992].

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche adds: They showed me a photo of the boy and the letter. I said: „I read it quite carefully – let it put it under my pillow!“ I slept about one hour and when I woke up I said: „The letter is fake, but the boy is OK.“ Situpa scolded me: „You shouldn't have said this!“ Tashi Namgyal ['s cousin and the private secretary of HH the 16th Karmapa and later generalsecretary of „Karmapa“ Ogyen Trinle] wasn't happy that I sayed this.

Again Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche speaking avout himself: About connection between Chokyur Lingpa and Orgyen Tobgyal Rinpoche, whos considered a emanation of the first: I told Shamarpa: „We are different – When Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo and Chokgyur Lingpa flourished, you didn't even exist [the Geluk government banned the enthronement of the Shamarpas], whereas Situpa existed, so no matter what is right or wrong, my loyality will always be with Situpa. Shamarpa is a very high Lama, but we have no connection. In the whole tersar teachings of Chokgyur Lingpa there is not even a sloka [verse] related to Shamarpa.

About Chokgyur Lingpa's prophecy: This thangka existed in Gelak monastery and Dilgo Khyentse Rpx saw a cop, I saw a it as well. Situpa knew of this thangka and commanded me to bring the thangka [to India]. I took it, showed it to the and gave it to Situpa who printed it and distributed largely the copies . It became an important factor. Many people followed the Thangka and its prophecy – Thrangu, Tenga, Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche, to them it was more important then the opinion of Shamarpa or Situpa.”2 2Ugyen Tobgay talk about Karmapa's fake Prediction Letter by Situ Rinpoche, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5-GT5ovYOU