Work of the Charity Commission
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House of Commons Public Administration Select Committee Work of the Charity Commission Oral and written evidence Tuesday 25 October 2011 Ordered by The House of Commons to be printed 25 October 2011 HC 1542-i Published on 2 April 2012 by authority of the House of Commons London: The Stationery Office Limited £7.00 The Public Administration Select Committee (PASC) The Public Administration Select Committee is appointed by the House of Commons to examine the reports of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and the Health Service Commissioner for England, which are laid before this House, and matters in connection therewith, and to consider matters relating to the quality and standards of administration provided by civil service departments, and other matters relating to the civil service. Current membership Mr Bernard Jenkin MP (Conservative, Harwich and North Essex) (Chair) Alun Cairns MP (Conservative, Vale of Glamorgan) Michael Dugher MP (Labour, Barnsley East) Charlie Elphicke MP (Conservative, Dover) Paul Flynn MP (Labour, Newport West) Robert Halfon MP (Conservative, Harlow) David Heyes MP (Labour, Ashton under Lyne) Kelvin Hopkins MP (Labour, Luton North) Greg Mulholland MP (Liberal Democrat, Leeds North West) Priti Patel MP (Conservative, Witham) Lindsay Roy MP (Labour, Glenrothes) Powers The powers of the Committee are set out in House of Commons Standing Orders, principally in SO No 146. These are available on the Internet via www.parliament.uk Publications The Reports and evidence of the Committee are published by The Stationery Office by Order of the House. All publications of the Committee (including press notices) are on the Internet at http://www.parliament.uk/pasc Committee staff The current staff of the Committee are Steven Mark (Clerk), Charlotte Pochin (Second Clerk), Alexandra Meakin (Committee Specialist), Paul Simpkin (Senior Committee Assistant) and Su Panchanathan (Committee Assistant). Contacts All correspondence should be addressed to the Clerk of the Public Administration Select Committee, Committee Office, First Floor, 7 Millbank, House of Commons, London SW1P 3JA. The telephone number for general enquiries is 020 7219 5730; the Committee’s email address is [email protected]. List of witnesses Tuesday 25 October 2011 Page Dame Suzie Leather DBE, Chair, and Sam Younger, Chief Executive, Charity Commission Ev 1 List of written evidence 1 Charity Commission Ev 18 2 PCS Ev 21 3 Supplementary evidence by Charity Commission Ev 25 cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [SO] Processed: [09-02-2012 11:54] Job: 017018 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/017018/017018_o001_michelle_PASC corrected transcript 25 Oct 11(HC 1542).xml Public Administration Committee: Evidence Ev 1 Oral evidence Taken before the Public Administration Committee on Tuesday 25 October 2011 Members present Mr Bernard Jenkin (Chair) Charlie Elphicke Kelvin Hopkins Paul Flynn Greg Mulholland Robert Halfon Lindsay Roy David Heyes ________________ Examination of Witnesses Witnesses: Dame Suzi Leather DBE, Chair, and Sam Younger CBE, Chief Executive, Charity Commission, gave evidence. Q1 Chair: Welcome, both of you, to this session on funding? You have had a cut of £2.8 million on a the work of the Charity Commission. I wonder if you budget of about £30 million, and it will be cut by could each identify yourselves for the record. nearly a further £1 million by 2013–14. What Dame Suzi Leather: Thank you very much indeed. I activities have you actually ceased to undertake as a am Suzi Leather; I chair the Commission. result of that? Sam Younger: Sam Younger, Chief Executive of the Dame Suzi Leather: When we consulted with the Charity Commission. strategic review, it was very clear from responses that all the people we consulted felt that there was really Q2 Chair: Thank you for being with us today. The nothing very obvious that we could stop doing. That purpose of our session is to look at the work that the came to us from the charity sector, from umbrella Charity Commission does in the light of the bodies, and internally from our own staff. We have, of forthcoming review. Dame Suzi, I believe you would course, the same statutory objectives in the 2006 Act. like to make a brief opening statement. What that said to us was that we had to change Dame Suzi Leather: Only to thank you for this fundamentally how we did things, rather than what we opportunity to talk to you about our work. Since we did, but also really carry out the functions that only last appeared before you, quite a lot has happened; not least, like many other Government departments, we we as the regulator could do—in other words, stop have had a very significant funding reduction. That doing things that other organisations could do. has necessitated a root-and-branch strategic review. Clearly, you do not do that overnight, but we did We have now a new strategic policy going forward. identify that one-to-one advice and support was an We have very fundamentally restructured the area where we could do less and rely more on organisation, and it would be very helpful to talk to umbrella bodies to do that, supported, of course, by you about all those things. I would also like to record our own guidance. The guidance that we provide will my thanks to all our staff, because as you will see continue to be incredibly important, but what we are from our annual report, in terms of our performance, seeking to do is rather fewer of what I might term it has been a very good year; we have achieved a lot hand-holding responses. I think Sam will come in on against a very difficult background, so on behalf of the figures on this, but the traffic coming into the the board, I want to thank all my staff. Commission asking informal questions, whether by phone, letter or e-mail, is really quite considerable, Q3 Chair: May I place on record my thanks—I am and we wanted to stop doing that. sure that I speak on behalf of the Committee as a whole—for the work that the Commission has done Q5 Lindsay Roy: Good morning. How satisfied are in a very difficult period? Particularly, our thoughts you that the umbrella organisations can fulfil that are with your staff, who are suffering the effects of downsizing, and we realise that this is a very, very function—the one-to-one rapport? difficult time for the Commission, as it is for very Dame Suzi Leather: Mr Roy, you have put your finger many parts of the public sector. I hope that you will on a really important issue, and this is why I pass on our very best wishes to your staff. emphasise the importance of not stopping what we are Dame Suzi Leather: Thank you. That will be much doing overnight but moving gradually to asking the appreciated. umbrella organisations to do more. Certainly, many of them are facing the same funding problem that we are. Q4 Chair: We have quite a lot of housekeeping I think in the short term it is a difficulty, but our long- questions, but we think we may deal with some of term vision, as it were, is to build up the self-reliance those in writing rather than orally, because we have of the sector, to make those umbrella bodies stronger very many pressing issues that we want to press on and perhaps increase their membership, so they with. May I ask, to start with, about your resource become more resilient. cobber Pack: U PL: COE1 [E] Processed: [09-02-2012 11:54] Job: 017018 Unit: PG01 Source: /MILES/PKU/INPUT/017018/017018_o001_michelle_PASC corrected transcript 25 Oct 11(HC 1542).xml Ev 2 Public Administration Committee: Evidence 25 October 2011 Dame Suzi Leather DBE and Sam Younger CBE Q6 Chair: What does that mean in practice? Q9 Chair: What effect on charities has the Somebody rings up and starts asking questions, and downsizing of your operation had? you say, “Look, you have to ring this person, and they Dame Suzi Leather: I think it probably has not had will deal with it”? How does it actually work? very much impact so far. However, I would say that Sam Younger: There are two forms in which we can we have noticed a reduction in the number of contacts do it. When people come to us, whether by telephone, from organisations. Having said that I do not think e-mail, via the web or whatever, we can have better that it has had a huge effect, I think the message is signposting to other sources of advice beyond what is beginning to get through that our communication with on our web that is not just straight back to us. That is the sector, or at least our regulatory touch, certainly one element. The other is working more positively to in an informal-advice-and-guidance sense, will move develop a strategic relationship with a number of up from contact one-to-one with individual umbrella bodies, so that they are in a better position organisations to the umbrella bodies. That may be to take this on and avoid things coming to us in the driving some of the decrease in contacts with us. first place. In answer to Mr Roy’s question, one thing that was Q10 Chair: In terms of your staff redundancy striking in the context of our strategic review programme, how have you ensured that you hang on consultations was that the umbrella bodies expressed to the people and the skills that you want, rather than quite a positive wish in principle to take on some of some of your best and brightest taking the opportunity these areas of contact with and advice to their to accept redundancy and move on to something else? members.