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149 FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION I N D E X PRESENTATION PAGE: MIKE WHINSTON 204 PANEL: PAGE: 2 151 3 225 4 312 5 383 For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 150 FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION In the Matter of: ) WORKSHOP ON SLOTTING ALLOWANCES. ) Volume 2 -----------------------------------) JUNE 1, 2000 Room 432 Federal Trade Commission 6th Street and Pennsylvania Ave., NW Washington, D.C. 20580 The above-entitled matter came on for panel discussion pursuant to notice, at 8:30 a.m. For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 151 PANEL 2: POTENTIAL EFFECTS OF SLOTTING ALLOWANCES: CONCERNS OVER EXCLUSION AND EXCLUSIVE DEALING PANEL 2 MODERATORS DAVID BALTO, FTC BILL COHEN, FTC NEIL AVERITT, FTC PANEL 2 GUESTS SCOTT HANNAH (Pacific Valley Foods) VICTOR THOMAS (Ahold) KEVIN HADE (Ukrop's) TOM STENZEL (UFFVA) GREG SHAFFER (Economist) JOHN EAGAN (Costco) DAVID NICKILA (Portland French Bakery) KAREN CARVER (Elan Natural Waters) JACK MCMAHON (Gallant Greeting Cards) PAMELA MILLS (Tortilla Industry Association) GUS DOPPES (California Scents Air Fresheners) MIKE WHINSTON (Economist) GREG GUNDLACH (Marketing academic) For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 152 P R O C E E D I N G S - - - - - - MR. BALTO: We're going to start promptly at 8:30. I'm David Balto. This is day 2 of the slotting allowance workshop. Today we have a busy schedule. We start off with the panel on the question of exclusion. We follow with a panel on retailer market power. Today's lunch, as I mentioned earlier, in the cafeteria on The Top of the Trade, 7th floor, is fried chicken with homemade potato salad. Following that, we're going to have an interesting panel on category management and an exciting videotape to show you about how not to do category management, and that will be followed by a panel of expert lawyers and economists from all over the United States who are going to tell the FTC what they should do. Let me start off with a couple of housekeeping notes. If you want materials from this conference or additional materials, it would be very helpful if you registered, and we have registration sheets out in the front. We are going to prepare copies of all of the handouts, including Professor Salop's paper, and they'll be ready for distribution sometime later on this For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 153 morning. I wanted to ask the panelists to try to be very careful about terminology. I heard yesterday a couple comments from people that we seem to be periodically confusing slotting allowances -- up front payments for new products -- with pay to stay. So if you could try as much as possible, when you're using terminology that a layperson, someone who is not experienced in this field, may not be familiar with, please identify what you're talking about. Specifically when we're talking about slotting allowances, let's try to make it clear whether we're talking about something for new products or for incumbent products. This morning we're starting off without a court reporter, so I want to emphasize as much as possible that when you speak, at least for this first panel, please identify your name before you speak, so the court reporter later can transcribe that. In addition, we're accepting written comments. We've actually received one set of written comments, two sets of written comments, and those will be posted on our web site. If you want to submit written comments, you have up until June 23 to do so. For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 154 With that, let's begin today's panel. Let me turn to my right. Neil Averitt is walking into the room, and Neil was the first person to introduce himself. Why don't we introduce ourselves counterclockwise beginning with Professor Whinston. MR. WHINSTON: Michael Whinston, professor of economics, Northwestern University. MR. STENZEL: I'm Tom Stenzel, president of United Fresh Fruit and Vegetable Association representing growers and shippers of fresh produce. MR. HADE: Kevin Hade. I'm vice president, category management for Ukrop Supermarkets. MR. GARMON: Hi. I'm Chris Garmon. I'm an economist here at the FTC. MS. CARVER: Karen Carver. I'm the CEO and plant manager of Elan Natural Waters. MR. MCMAHON: I'm Jack McMahon, president of Gallant Greetings, a greeting card publisher. MR. THOMAS: I'm Victor Thomas from the Stop & Shop Supermarket Company. MR. HANNAH: I'm Scott Hannah, CEO of Pacific Valley Foods. We're a processor of potato and vegetable products. MR. GUNDLACH: I'm Greg Gundlach, professor of marketing, Mendoza College of Business at the University For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 155 of Notre Dame. MS. MILLS: Pamela Mills. I'm with the Tortilla Industry Association and also a tortilla manufacturer. MR. TADA: Pierre Tada. I'm the chief executive officer of Limoneira Company. It's a produce grower, packer, shipper, and also involved in frozen food processing. MR. FLICKINGER: Burt Flickinger. I teach in the food industry management program at Cornell University and St. Joseph's University, and work with a lot of independent retailers and small manufacturers and agricultural-based cooperatives. MR. EAGAN: John Eagan, vice president, general merchandise manager, Costco Wholesale in Los Angeles. MR. NICKILA: David Nickila, Portland French Baker, Portland, Oregon, a small wholesale variety baker. MR. SHAFFER: Greg Shaffer. I'm at the William E. Simon Graduate School of Business, University of Rochester. MR. COHEN: I'm Bill Cohen in policy planning here at the FTC. MR. BALTO: And I'm David Balto. Let me remind you, the members of the panel, of the rules. I will call on people periodically to be recognized. Please For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 156 place your name card up. We have a lot to do today, so please try to keep your answers relatively succinct. By the way, if Gus Doppes is in the audience, we have a place assigned for you up here at the table next to Pam Mills. Let me begin by calling on Karen Carver, Jack McMahon, Pam Mills and Pierre Tada and ask you to give the audience a view on how slotting allowances affect your ability to compete, your ability to enter into new markets, your ability to expand and innovate. Why don't we start with Karen Carver. MS. CARVER: Thank you. In our industry, which is of course the water industry, the slotting fees present a major stumbling block for us to enter into any large distribution network. We have had limited success in our regional area, but when you try to expand outside of that the up-front price of each SKU, depending on flavor and size and everything, it may be the same product, but you have the slotting issue for every single flavor and every single size. So for us to get into a large supermarket, you're talking $50,000 or better up front, which we cannot provide because of the high outlay of capital which we just don't have. MR. BALTO: Karen, what is the amount per SKU For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 157 per store that you typically face? MS. CARVER: Typically the amount has been $5,000 for each SKU in the markets that we've tried to go into. Some are lower. The smaller they are, of course the lower they are, but if you have a large distribution, then they want a larger amount up front. MR. BALTO: Jack McMahon? MR. MCMAHON: The greeting card industry is a 7 and a half billion dollar market with two majors having 80 percent of the market. It's a very fragmented market with some 800 publishers such as ourselves. We ourselves have lost a few pieces of business because we did not give a slotting allowance, and one piece of business was $5 million for a five-year contract which we passed on, and we lost another one for a million dollars. It's a very competitive market and yet we would be in the top ten of the publishers in the industry. MR. BALTO: Karen. MS. MILLS: Pam. MR. BALTO: Sorry, Pam Mills. MS. MILLS: In the tortilla industry our company in particular has been in business for over 43 years, so we have had market share, consumer demand, product quality, pricing, all of the above, but what's happened For The Record, Inc. Waldorf, Maryland (301)870-8025 158 now is that we're being squeezed off the shelves because the dominant manufacturer pays so much money. As far as other type of markets such as box stores, we were in one. The dominant manufacturer came along and paid a lot of money, and we haven't been allowed in that store since. MR. BALTO: So in your situation there are pay-to-stay fees? MS. MILLS: Oh, yes, annually. MR. BALTO: And approximately how much per SKU are they? MS. MILLS: In the tortilla market, it's nothing like SKUs. It's basically you pay five, six digit numbers for an annual program. MR. BALTO: Pierre? MR. TADA: Yes. I'm in the fresh produce industry, and one of the challenges of the products we produce is there's a time limit on the product. So there's tremendous leverage from the retail side if the product can't be sold. So you either sell it or smell it in our business. Anyway, yesterday was an alien world that was being described by some of the folks on the other end of the value chain.