The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project
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The Association for Diplomatic Studies and Training Foreign Affairs Oral History Project WILLIAM HARRISON MARSH Interviewed by: Lambert (Nick) Heyniger and Vladimir Lehovich Initial interview date: December 3, 1 7 Copyright 2000 ADST TABLE OF CONTENTS Background Born in Pennsyl ania; raised in Pennsyl ania and Michigan Cornell Uni ersity U.S. Air Force - Japan, School of Ad anced International Studies, Princeton Uni ersity Pennsyl ania Economy League Entered Foreign Ser ice - 1,-. A1.. course State Department - A iation Di ision - Economist 1,-.-1,-2 Ci il A iation Board Cu0a State Department - Foreign Ser ice Institute 1FSI2 1,-2-1,-3 4ietnamese Language Training Saigon, 4ietnam - Political Officer 1,-3-1,-- Am0assador Lodge Political situation TD5 - Hue Pro incial reporting En ironment Duties Em0assy-military relations 6ife7s e acuation to Bangkok State Department - 4ietnam 6orking 8roup 1,---1,-8 Buddhist uprising U.S. anti-war sentiment U.S. go ernment policy Briefings 1 Part II (Inter iew with 4ladimir Leho ich) Background (see Part I) State Department - A iation Di ision Saigon, 4ietnam French legacy Language training Korean 6ar parallel U.S. goals (4ietnam) Ngo Dinh Diem Marriage confusion En ironment Buddhists U.S. policy shift U.S. military presence Tra el 4iet Cong Counterinsurgency Em0assy military reporting FSO reporting Around the world Bangkok safeha en fiasco Em0assy attacked Military engagements 4iet Cong fundraising Troop spending The media Military o erconfidence 4IP 1 ery important persons2 isitors TD5 - Hue Slow deterioration AID State Department - 4ietnam 6orking 8roup 1,---1,-8 Pu0lic dissention Operations Center Duties Congressional Record queries Pu0lic Correspondence Di ision Election of Nguyen 4an Thieu Secretary McNamara Senator Kennedy Speechmaking Tet offensi e 2 U.S. student demonstrations President Johnson Uni ersity of California at Berkeley episode President Thieu7s isit Brussels, Belgium 1,-8-1,A2 Paris, France - 4ietnam Talks - U.S. Delegation 1,A2-1,A4 Madame Binh Christmas 1,A2 bom0ing Peace Agreement - 1,A3 John Negroponte U.S. force withdrawals State Department - France Country Director 1,A4-1,AC State Department - TD5 - Indochina Task Force 1,AC Part III (Inter iew with Lam0ert Heyniger) Saigon, 4ietnam - Saigon 6orking 8roup 1,---1,-8 Domino theory State Department mood Tet offensi e Compromise solution Speechmaking Anti-war sentiment Johnson7s 4atican isit Uni ersity of California at Berkeley - Atlantic Affairs Study - Refused D6ar criminalE accusationF Brussels, Belgium - Political Officer 1,-8-1,A2 Flemish ersus 6alloons Duties Anti-4ietnam 6ar sentiment USIS Paris, France - 4ietnam Peace Talks - U.S. Delegation 1,A2-1,A4 Kissinger Economic aid to North 4ietnam agreement Negotiations Christmas bom0ing Lessons learned 3 State Department - European Affairs - France 1,A4-1,A- DBig FourE Camp Da id meeting 8iscard d7Estaing isit Politics (internal) State Department - Indochina Task Force 1,AC National 6ar College 1,A--1,AA Israel isit Sadat State Department - Special Assistant - Under Secretary for 1,AA-1,A, Security Assistance Congressional interest Arms sales Mrs. Benson Jeddah, Saudi Ara0ia - International Affairs - Counselor 1,A,-1,81 En ironment Contacts U.S. Liaison Office - Riyadh Mecca mosque seiGure A6ACS Iran oil to Israel Ra0at, Morocco - Counselor for Political Affairs 1,81-1,83 Em0assy atmosphere Speechwriting A6ACS Am0assador Brussels, Belgium - Political Officer 1,84-1,8A Prime Minister 6ilfred Martens La0or reporting officers DCMs 8ene a, SwitGerland - Deputy Chief of Mission 1,8A-1,,2 Am0assador Petrone Representation En ironment Iraq-Iran peace talks UN Human Rights Commission ACDA Rome, Italy - Food and Agriculture OrganiGation 1FAO2 - 1,,2-1,,4 U.S. Representati e 4 Edward Saouma - Director 8eneral of FAO State Department - Historical Di ision 1,,4-1,,A Rome (continued) - FAO Staffing Budgeting Comments on Foreign Ser ice Career INTERVIEW 1Begin Section with Nick Heyniger2 ): I am interviewing William Harrison Marsh, Bill Marsh, abo.t his thirty-pl.s years in the Foreign Service. Bill, let2s start off by yo.r telling .s where and when yo. were born and where yo. grew .p. MARSH: Nick, welcome and thank you for this opportunity. I was born in Pennsyl ania and grew up there and in Michigan and found really no roots until after graduate school when I was in Pitts0urgh, Pennsyl ania. ): Where did yo. go to high school4 MARSH: I went to high school in Detroit, Michigan to a ery remarka0le pu0lic high school. Four years of French, for eIample, were o0ligatory. ): Wonderf.l. That2s what people want to know. And then from there yo. went where to college4 MARSH: I went to Cornell Uni ersity from 1,4, to 1,C3. I was a mid year entrant, which created a great deal of confusion when I took the second half of courses first, and then the first half, particularly in the case of history courses. ): What fields were yo. mainly st.dying4 MARSH: The go ernment department at Cornell at that time was quite renowned. It included truly eItraordinary people like Clinton Rossiter and Mario Einaudi, whose son, of course, was Am0assador Einaudi, and others, Her0ert Briggs and so forth. So I graduated in 1,C3 with a degree in go ernment, a 0achelor of arts with honors in go ernment. ): Then what4 C MARSH: I then had to wait because this was my first truly bureaucratic eIperience. I graduated a0out 1. days after President Eisenhower7s inauguration. In those days we had to take ROTC at Cornell, for two years and I had finished my two years a0out three weeks before the Korean 6ar began. So then those of us, and I would say it was a0out ,8 percent of us, who had decided not to go on to ad anced ROTC rushed to sign up and took the additional two years and we then were commissioned and were to 0e called up. But President Eisenhower put a hold on the play so that instead of going in, say, in Fe0ruary or March of 1,C3, something of that sort, it was not until August of 7C3 that I went into the Air Force to do my two-year stint. That meant that I spent some siI months with my parents, returning home to them, and by this time they had mo ed to Dallas, TeIas. My father was transferred frequently by his company. So I became a floorwalker at Neiman-Marcus at that time, which is quite another story and ery interesting, and then went off to be sworn in and all of that near San Francisco. I was considered by ha ing been resident, al0eit temporarily, west of the Mississippi Ri er to be Pacific oriented rather than Atlantic oriented. So most of my classmates went to Europe. I did not, I went to Japan and spent my whole two year tour in Japan, with a mar elous jo0 as aide de camp to the Commanding 8eneral of the Far East Air Forces and an opportunity to study Japanese at the em0assy under Eleanor Jorden. ): What was the name of the Air Force officer4 MARSH: The last one was 8eneral Earl Partridge. He was the Commander. I was a junior aide to him and a senior aide to Major 8eneral Kenneth McNaughton, who was deputy commander of Far East Air Forces. In those days Far East Air Forces eItended from roughly the operational area of Thailand on the west, Australia and New Jealand on the south and e erything in the Pacific north of that. ): And, Bill, yo. also mentioned that yo. worked with somebody in the embassy4 MARSH: 5es. 6ell, Eleanor Jorden taught Japanese. She was an eItraordinary teacher/instructor and came later to head the Far Eastern Languages Department of FSI. It was a remarka0le course of language instruction. Ne er before or since ha e I taken anything like that. I was in my early twenties and I remem0ered stuff in those days with relati e ease. I became quite good in con ersational Japanese. I ne er studied the writing or the reading of it, but still con ersationally I was quite good. But it was an introduction to life a0road because until that time the only foreign tra el that I had had was on the New 5ork Central between Buffalo and Detroit and ice ersa going to and from college ia CanadalL. ): Okay, so now yo.2ve grad.ated from Cornell and yo.2ve had two and a half years in the Air Force. It2s now 1 55 and yo. are discharged from the Air Force. What happens now4 MARSH: 6hat happens now is that I had decided that I liked li ing a0road ery much indeed. It was fascinating and all that. The em0assies were ery interesting. And by the - way, Am0assador John Allison was ery kind to me. 6e happened to meet so I was in ited to a couple of stag dinners that he ga e at the em0assy. There I was with ery, ery senior officers, I7m a second lieutenant, for eIample at a dinner gi en for Senator Earl Clements of Kentucky, and that sort of thing. I don7t know, I ha e a feeling I was regarded as something of a boy MoGart there before the crowned heads. But in any e ent they were ery, ery kind to me and then I came to know Mrs. Allison ery well, so then I was in ited to dinners that were not stag. They were ery kind and remarka0le people and I was ery much impressed with them. I also came to know the French am0assador, whose name was LL y and who was the epitome of the wry and skillful French am0assador. The particular question that I was working out was that of isas and passports for American military personnel who were going to the Associated States of Indochina during the time of the French conflict with the 4ietnamese.