INT ERVIEW Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung e.V.

PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES A prisoner as a beacon of hope? INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY MARC FRINGS The Fatah politician Marwan Barghouti has been jailed in Israel for the last 15 years. His wife, Fadwa Barghouti, explains how he views UND ABEER ZAGHARI the current state of affairs in Palestine.

April 2017 The name of Marwan Barghouti features On 15 April 2002 Marwan Barghouti was

prominently in any discussion about again captured by Israel and indicted for i.e. www.kas.de/ramallah change within the Palestinian political complicity in murder and active membership www.kas.de leadership. In the eyes of the Palestinian in a terrorist organization. He was convicted public Barghouti is a national hero enjoy- by an Israeli civil court in December 2002 Follow us on ing strong support. Israel, on the other and sentenced to five times life imprison- hand, considers him a terrorist who ment plus 40 years.1 Israel considers Bar-

should remain in prison for the rest of his ghouti a terrorist who represents the life. On the occasion of the 15th anniver- bloody face of the Second Intifada. Within

sary of his arrest on 15 April 2002 as well the Palestinian society, however, he can re- as a large-scale hunger strike Palestinian ly on strong and broad support as the prisoners began on 17 April 2017, KAS- public perceives him as a “man of the Ramallah met with Fadwa Barghouti, his street”. Pictures of the imprisoned Barghou- wife and sole means of communication ti, often in Che Guevara iconography, are with the outside world. omnipresent in the streets.

Although Barghouti does not distance him- Freedom fighter or terrorist? Barghouti’s self from the violence of the Second Intifa- role within the Palestinian resistance da, he does not think of it as an appropriate Marwan Barghouti was born in 1959 in a instrument anymore to advance the chances village near Ramallah. He joined the Fatah for Palestinian statehood. Today, his wife movement already as a teenager and estab- Fadwa explained to KAS in this interview, he lished the student wing of the party, Sha- believes in peaceful popular resistance in biba, during his time at Birzeit University. addition to negotiations with Israel. As the leader of the youth wing, he became According to public opinion polls KAS- one of the faces of the first Intifada (1987- Ramallah conducts regularly with the Pales- 1993). Due to his political involvement, he tinian Center for Policy and Survey Research was first jailed by Israel in the late 1970s (PCPSR), Barghouti is the only Fatah official and deported to Jordan during the first Inti- with realistic chances of beating a Hamas fada, where he joined Fatah’s leadership in candidate at the presidential elections. exile. Along with the Palestinian leadership under Yasser Arafat that was based in Tu- Barghouti has always distinguished himself nis, he was permitted to return to the West from the Fatah leadership with his own po- Bank under the terms of the Oslo Accords – sitions since the early years of his political an agreement that Barghouti supported for activism. Nonetheless – and despite his ab- a long time – between the Palestine Libera- sence –, he received the most votes of all tion Organization (PLO) and Israel. Back in candidates for the Central Committee, Fa- the West Bank, his views changed and he tah’s highest decision-making body, at the became convinced that Israel is not willing to conclude the peace agreement. This con- 1 viction led him to become a supporter of a The sentence refers to terror attacks in Tel Aviv (05.03.2002, three dead), the West Bank new resistance movement that contributed (15.01.2001, one dead; 12.06.2001, one to the outbreak of the Second Intifada in dead) as well as a thwarted attack (planned for 26.03.2002 in Jerusalem). For the complete the year 2000. ruling, see Israel Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 12.12.2002, [https://goo.gl/N17ekC].

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Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung e.V. last party congress in November 2016. But normal prisoner. He is a leader that must be PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES high hopes that he would be assigned a in contact with his people. That is what we leading position within the party remained are working for. Today, I am his only means INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY unfulfilled. Instead, Mahmoud al-Aloul, the of communication with the outside world. MARC FRINGS former governor of Nablus, was named UND ABEER ZAGHARI deputy chairman of Fatah and Jibril Rajoub Israelis and Palestinians alike are losing was named secretary of the Central Com- confidence in the two-state solution. What April 2017 mittee on 15 February 2017. does your husband think about this?

Marwan und Fadwa Barghouti married in He sees little hope for a two-state solution. www.kas.de/ramallah 1984. They have four kids which were all When I meet politicians abroad, I always www.kas.de born before and during the Second Intifada. appeal to them to save what is left of the Fadwa Barghouti is a lawyer and leads the two-state solution. At the same time, my Follow us on campaign for her husband’s release. For this husband does not think of the one-state so- reason, she is active in giving talks and lution as a viable alternative. It would only

meeting politicians abroad. lead to violence, confrontation and ideologi- cal conflicts. That is why the international

KAS-Ramallah: The Israeli-Palestinian community must assume responsibility and conflict is deadlocked. In addition, domes- put pressure on the Israeli government to tic challenges are increasing and with it accept the two-state solution. The Israelis the pressure on the Palestinian Authority already live in a state of their own. We want (PA). How does your husband, Marwan to live side by side with them in our own Barghouti, assess the situation? state.

Fadwa Barghouti: The political situation is President Abbas’ strategy has always difficult. There is neither a peace process been negotiations with Israel. What strat- nor political initiatives. The unemployment egy would your husband pursue to solve is continuously on the rise and the economic the conflict? development is getting not better but worse. The Palestinians are living under He does not believe that there can only be constant pressure and many are losing hope one strategy. Negotiations are an important in the peace process. The situation of Pales- tool. But international humanitarian law also tinian prisoners in Israeli jails is one of the grants people under occupation the right to few issues that the Palestinian society resist.3 My husband believes in the right agrees on regardless of their political affilia- balance between negotiations and popular tion.2 peaceful resistance against the occupation. No people in the world gained their freedom Your husband has been in an Israeli jail solely through negotiations. The Palestini- for the last 15 years. How does he stay in ans have realized by now that the PA’s touch with the outside world? strategy to only rely on negotiations has failed. Popular resistance is a way for the I have not been working as a lawyer for the Palestinian people to attract the interna- past five years, so I can focus completely on tional community’s attention. leading the campaign to release my hus- band. I have a team that supports me. There was some disquiet lately within Fa- There are only two people allowed access to tah: Marwan Barghouti did very well in my husband: his lawyer and me. He is not a the elections for the Fatah-Central Com-

mittee but was not considered for any

2 Currently there are approx. 6.000 to 6.500 Palestinians in Israeli jails, among them 300

children (between the age of 11 and 16), 53 women and four members of the Palestinian Legislative Council (the parliament). About 458 3 For more on the “right to resist” see „Zur Zu- are serving a life sentence and about half of lässigkeit zivilen Ungehorsams gegen militäri- the prisoners have been convicted. Cf. [ad- sche Besatzung aus völkerrechtlicher Sicht“, dameer.org/statistics], [B’Tselem; Deutscher Bundestag, Wissenschaftliche Diens- goo.gl/QMKPa]. te, [goo.gl/XSx6Qh].

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Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung e.V. leading position. Is there a conflict be- Jerusalem].6 It also stated that resistance is PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES tween him and the Fatah leadership? only permissible within these territories.

My husband enjoys great support from all INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY Would he have been able to fulfill his role levels within Fatah. His success in the last MARC FRINGS as deputy chairman from prison? party elections proves it: 91 percent of the UND ABEER ZAGHARI delegates voted for him at the party con- The instances that I described show that he

gress in November 2016. The polls conduct- can very well be politically active from pris- April 2017 ed by Khalil Shikaki [Director of the Pales- on. Therefore, he would have also been able

tinian Think Tank PCPSR] support this as to be deputy chairman of Fatah. The party www.kas.de/ramallah well: While Fatah would receive around 36 base already considers him the actual lead- www.kas.de percent in parliamentary elections, Marwan er. Only the selfishness of some party would get 59 percent as a presidential can- members and their rivalry behind the Follow us on didate. The party would do much better, if scenes prevented his nomination. Some of he were to run in the elections. them might have also been influenced by

We expected that my husband would be Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s com- named deputy chairman of Fatah. This ments.7

would have corresponded with the dele- gates’ vote. My husband has – despite his Your husband comes from the Fatah youth imprisonment – taken on more political re- movement. Today, the youth is standing sponsibility than other leading party mem- up to the current conditions: they are bers. That they did not consider him was frustrated and are demonstrating against not fair. the Israeli occupation and the Palestinian leadership. What is Marwan Barghouti’s How could he even exert influence from relationship with the youth today? prison? He is in a constant exchange with the Fatah Let’s look at two concrete examples: In youth wing. They send him messages and 2003, during the Second Intifada, he he replies. He is supporting the Palestinian pushed the international community’s de- youth. Marwan thinks that the young people mand for a Palestinian cease-fire.4 After are caught in a dilemma: while the political Hamas won the elections for the Palestinian leadership is talking about peace, the situa- Legislative Council [the parliament] in 2006, tion on the ground is the exact opposite. he was personally involved in drafting the The diplomatic efforts for international so called “Prisoners’ Document”.5 It was recognition within the United Nations and supposed to form the basis for national con- other international organizations are not sensus to avoid what happened later: the helping the youth either to solve their prob- political split between Hamas in Gaza and lems: it does not make the Israeli settle- Fatah in the West Bank. The international ments disappear. The Palestinian youth has community did not pay much attention to no confidence in the leadership. the document although Hamas, by approv- ing the document, agreed on a future Pales- We are now witnessing a large-scale hun- tinian state within the 1967 borders [mean- ger strike of Palestinian prisoners in Is- ing the West Bank, the Gaza Strip and East

6 Although the text says that a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders does not come along with the recognition of the State of Isra- el, which the PLO has already declared but

Hamas is still not willing to give.

7 4 For additional background: CNN, Palestinian Fadwa Barghouti had previously insinuated officials: Militants offer 3-month truce, on Facebook that there might be a connection 26.06.2003, [goo.gl/j7CNJa]. between Fatah’s decision and Netanyahu’s comments. Netanyahu commented on the Fa- 5 Full text: [goo.gl/eV70Dk]; an interview tah congress that Barghouti’s election radical- (2006) by bitterlemons.org with Barghouti ized Fatah. Cf. Ahmad Melhem, Why some in about the document can be found here Fatah aren’t pleased about new deputy leader, [goo.gl/i7CAgG]. al-Monitor, 01.03.2017, [goo.gl/OZ6aIw].

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Konrad-Adenauer-Stiftung e.V. raeli jails. What is behind it and what is heritage. I also take heart from the wide PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES Marwan Barghouti’s role in it? support of the public as well as the Fatah base. I also receive a lot of support interna- Because of the conditions of his detention, INTERVIEW CONDUCTED BY tionally. Even Nobel Peace Prize winners are my husband is not able to communicate MARC FRINGS backing my husband’s release. But the with his people. He cannot engage with the UND ABEER ZAGHARI greatest source of energy is my husband public directly. That he has been successful- himself: he puts his own fate after that of ly running in the elections since 2002 de- April 2017 his people. spite these limitations proves his popularity

and that the Palestinian people still care www.kas.de/ramallah about their prisoners. It is the first time that www.kas.de he is taking part in a hunger strike since his imprisonment. The hunger strikers have Follow us on humanitarian demands. They are protesting for better conditions in the Israeli prisons.8

The demands include more regular phone calls with their families, visitation rights

twice a month – currently only one visit per month is allowed – and permits for their family members from the West Bank so they can enter Israel to visit them in prison. The hunger strike began on 17 April be- cause Israel was not willing to meet the demands of the prisoners. The student and youth wings of Fatah are showing their soli- darity by organizing protests. It is not clear where the strike and the pro- tests will lead. In the face of the challenges Palestinians are facing on a daily basis – e.g. the movement restrictions and the fal- tering economic development – it is hard to say, if the support for the prisoners will re- main on this level. Maybe the people will start demonstrating at the checkpoints. If that happens, Israel should be held ac- countable because the PA has made it clear: if the government in Jerusalem does not respond to the demands of the Palestinian prisoners, Israel will be responsible for any escalation.

Marwan Barghouti has been sentenced to five times life imprisonment plus 40 years. You have been campaigning for his release for the last 15 years. What keeps you going?

The fortune of the women in Palestine moti- vates me. To take on responsibility on all levels is part of the Palestinian women’s

8 See also Shlomi Eldar, Fatah’s Barghouti pushes hunger strike for 3.500 prisoners, al- Monitor, 05.04.2017, [goo.gl/MA2OWV].