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The Red Clydesiders - an Interview with Alistair Hulett Illawarra Unity - Journal of the Illawarra Branch of the Australian Society for the Study of Labour History Volume 5 Illawarra Unity, Volume 5 No.1 Issue 1 Illawarra Unity Article 2 2005 The Red Clydesiders - an interview with Alistair Hulett Anthony Ashbolt University of Wollongong, [email protected] Follow this and additional works at: https://ro.uow.edu.au/unity Recommended Citation Ashbolt, Anthony, The Red Clydesiders - an interview with Alistair Hulett, Illawarra Unity - Journal of the Illawarra Branch of the Australian Society for the Study of Labour History, 5(1), 2005, 17-29. Available at:https://ro.uow.edu.au/unity/vol5/iss1/2 Research Online is the open access institutional repository for the University of Wollongong. For further information contact the UOW Library: [email protected] The Red Clydesiders - an interview with Alistair Hulett Abstract Alistair Hulett, a Glasgow native, is one of Scotland’s finest folk performers and a committed socialist. During the 70s, 80s and much of the 90s he was based in Australia where he made a name for himself as a solo performer and for a period as a member of the highly acclaimed punk folk band Roaring Jack. From punk he moved back to the spirit and style of the folk revival of the 1960s. He is now based in Glasgow, where he performs solo and with Dave Swarbick, his collaborator on the CD Red Clydeside. Keywords socialists, folk singer, Scotland This journal article is available in Illawarra Unity - Journal of the Illawarra Branch of the Australian Society for the Study of Labour History: https://ro.uow.edu.au/unity/vol5/iss1/2 Illawarra Unity The Red Clydesiders: An Interview with Alistair Hulett Interviewer: Anthony Ashbolt [Alistair Hulett, a Glasgow native, is one of Scotland’s finest folk performers and a committed socialist. During the 70s, 80s and much of the 90s he was based in Australia where he made a name for himself as a solo performer and for a period as a member of the highly acclaimed punk folk band Roaring Jack. From punk he moved back to the spirit and style of the folk revival of the 1960s. He is now based in Glasgow, where he performs solo and with Dave Swarbick, his collaborator on the CD Red Clydeside.] See thon Arthur Henderson, heid bummer o’ the working men When war broke out he pressed his suit an’ ran tae catch the train He signed a deal in London, nae mair strikes until the fightin’s done In Glesga toon the word went roon’, tak tent o’ John Maclean He said a bayonet, that’s a weapon wi’ a working man at either end Betray your country, not your class. Don’t sign up for war my friend Don’t sign up for war AA: Let’s talk about folk and the protest tradition, folk music in social protest. Obviously you’ve just done a CD, Red Clydeside, that has an historical framework, and yet the song that you sang today, that great anti-war song ‘Don’t Sign Up for War’, has so much contemporary relevance. It could be about today. How do you see the role of folk music, both historically and today? AH: Well, the oldest political song that I know is a song called ‘The Cutty Wren’. It’s a very, very ancient song. It’s a pre- Christian song. It’s a religious song from before the time of Christianity but it was taken up by the peasants in 1381 17 Illawarra Unity in the Southeast of England when we had the peasants revolt led by Watt Tyler and John Ball. They took a song about the killing and eating of the king of the birds as a fertility god. They took that very, very ancient song and recast it with a new significance. Of course the significance here was that they were going to tear down the established feudal order and replace it with an egalitarian society, which was the goal of the peasants revolt. They wanted to get rid of the feudal hierarchy and that song became an illegal song. I don’t think songs themselves can alter societies. It takes a movement to do that. It takes political engagement to do that. But songs have always been a part of those movements. They have always been the lifeblood and spirit of the movement. There’s no political movement of the people that I can think of, that hasn’t produced a wealth of songs and those songs are usually made illegal by the power structure that they’re seeking to topple. So if they recognise that these songs have got power I think that’s a confirmation that we are right in that hunch. That they do have a significance, that they do an effect. Joe Hill once said ‘any movement that doesn’t have songs ain’t worth much’. And he was a great song maker himself as well as a political organiser and agitator. AA: Some of his ashes were sent to Sydney. AH: I didn’t know that. AA: They were sent to Sydney. But the police raided one of the IWW houses and burnt the ashes. So the story goes that Joe Hill was cremated a second time in Australia. AH: Oh, how lovely AH: The IWW was very big in Australia, was it? AA: Around that time, yes. AH: And then a bit later the Communist Party was a mass party here? AA: Yes, to an extent, and it had a big role to play in the arts as well as the trade union movement. AH: I think the links between the folk revival in its early days in both America and in the UK, as well as here … the Communist Party, the Communist movement played a major role in helping the folk revival to become established. AA: Well let’s talk a little bit about that folk revival both in 18 Illawarra Unity America and England because the clear connection there is the one that links Pete Seeger with Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger, obviously. AH: Yes. AA: How important were Ewan MacColl and Peggy Seeger to the folk movement scene? AH: Ewan’s songs are still being sung. And Peggy still plays around on the folk scene. She just recently toured with Martin Carthy and Elisa Carthy, the daughter of Martin Carthy and Norma Waterson. I didn’t catch any of the shows but I heard some rave reports, not only about them but also about Peggy as well. She has written some great songs too. But, Ewan’s songs still continue to be sung. And his writings on folk music I don’t think have ever been surpassed. His approach to the performance of traditional songs, particularly the ballads, what he has to say about using the Stanislavski method for performing traditional songs. I’m still digesting some of that and trying to make use of that information in my performances. AA: What is so fantastically rich about that folk tradition is the way in which it merges all sorts of styles, including the political songs. But folk has got other dimensions also, hasn’t it? AH: Well I mean, folk music—it’s easier to identify what it is not than to actually define what it is. It’s a very elastic term. In its purest sense it means the songs which have been shaped and reshaped over a great many years through a process of oral transmission. But that only describes a certain type of folk song, what we call a traditional song. But within folk music we’ve also got the broadside ballads which instead of being handed on orally were actually put onto printed sheets. Many of them came originally from the oral tradition and went on to the printed sheet. This was a different sort of dissemination and those songs tended to be more fixed because you had the text, it was actually in print. So it was less likely to be altered than to be reshaped in performance than a song that you get orally. But there are many other forms of folk music that don’t fit into either category. I am thinking of forms such as the blues, for instance, which began as a rural music form but as more and more rural workers went into the cities in the north, particularly Chicago, they took the blues from the south 19 Illawarra Unity up into the northern cities and electric instruments began to be used. It wasn’t met with the howls of derision that came later when singer/songwriters such as Bob Dylan first went electric. What I would say is that folk music takes many many different forms and the Communist movement embraced or saw the potential in folk music because folk music … The only way that I can say what I really think folk music is … it’s the natural political and musical expression of the labouring classes and it is defined not by a style but it’s defined by the class that makes it. It’s our music. But that’s not to say that our class creates it in isolation from all other classes. Of course it doesn’t, because life isn’t compartmentalised in that way. So there are elements of non-folk music coming to folk music and similarly you will get influences from folk music coming into bourgeois music as well. A lot of the classical composers were massively, massively influenced by the pop music of their region, particularly people like Bartok who was a folk song collector and a composer at the same time.
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