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THE PROFESSIONAL “HOW-TO” MAGAZINE ON COMICS #19 AND CARTOONING FALL 2010 $7.95 In The US WRITEWRITE NOW’s NOW’s SUPERSTAR ARTIST DOUG SPOTLIGHTS DOUG WRITER/ARTIST BRAITHWAITE R.. SIKORYAK INTERVIEW & DEMO ROUGH STUFF’s BOB McLEOD CRITIQUES AA NEWCOMER’S WORK Thing, TM & ©2010 Marvel Characters, Inc. 2 0 2 4

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MIKE MANLEY 7 & BRET BLEVINS’ 2 8 5 6 2 8 1 DRAW! (edited by top comics artist MIKE MANLEY) is the professional “HOW-TO” magazine on comics, cartooning, and animation. Each issue features in-depth INTERVIEWS and DEMOS from top pros on all aspects of graphic storytelling. NOTE: Contains DRAW! #4 DRAW! #5 DRAW! #6 DRAW! #8 nudity for Features an interview and step-by-step Interview and sketchbook by MIKE Interview, cover, and demo with BILL WRAY, From comics to video games: an interview, demonstration from Savage Dragon’s ERIK WIERINGO, BRIAN BENDIS and MIKE STEPHEN DeSTEFANO interview and cover, and demo with MATT HALEY, TOM purposes of LARSEN, on drawing OEMING show how they create the series demo on cartooning and animation, BRET BANCROFT & ROB CORLEY on character figure and inking techniques, “Powers”, BRET BLEVINS shows “How to BLEVINS shows “How to draw the human design, “Drawing In Adobe Illustrator” drawing. demonstrates coloring techniques in draw great hands”, “The illusion of depth figure in light and shadow,” a step-by-step step-by-step demo by ALBERTO RUIZ, INTENDED Photoshop, BRET BLEVINS tutorial on in design” by PAUL RIVOCHE, must-have Photo-shop tutorial by CELIA CALLE, expert “Draping The Human Figure” by BRET Figure Composition, PAUL RIVOCHE on art books reviewed by TERRY BEATTY, plus inking tips by MIKE MANLEY, plus reviews BLEVINS, a new COMICS SECTION, FOR the Design Process, reviews of comics reviews of the best art supplies, links, a of the best art supplies, links, a color International Spotlight on JOSÉ LOUIS MATURE drawing papers, and more! color section and more! OEMING cover! section and more! AGREDA, a color section and more! READERS. (88-page magazine with COLOR) $5.95 (88-page magazine with COLOR) $5.95 (96-page magazine with COLOR) $5.95 (96-page magazine with COLOR) $5.95

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DRAW! #10 DRAW! #11 DRAW! #12 DRAW! #13 DRAW! #14 RON GARNEY interview, step-by-step STEVE RUDE demonstrates his approach to reveals his working methods Step-by-step demo of painting methods by Features in-depth interviews and demos demo, and cover, GRAHAM NOLAN on comics & drawing, ROQUE BALLESTEROS and step-by-step processes on merging his cover artist ALEX HORLEY (Heavy Metal, with DC Comics artist DOUG MAHNKE, creating newspaper strips, on Flash animation, political JIM traditional and digital art, Machine Teen’s Vertigo, DC, ), plus OVI NEDELCU (Pigtale, WB Animation), and other pros discuss lettering, “Draping BORGMAN on his daily Zits, MIKE HAWTHORNE on his work, “Making interviews and demos by Banana Sundays’ STEVE PURCELL (Sam and Max), plus Part The Human Figure, Part Two” by BRET plus DRAW!’s regular instructors BRET Perspective Work For You” by BRET COLLEEN COOVER, behind-the-scenes on 3 of editor MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS, ALBERTO RUIZ with more BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY on “Drawing BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, Photoshop Adult Swim’s MINORITEAM, regular features BLEVINS’ COMIC ART BOOTCAMP on Adobe Illustrator tips, interview with On LIfe”, more Adobe Illustrator tips with techniques with ALBERTO RUIZ, Adult on drawing by BRET BLEVINS and MIKE “Using Black to Power up Your Pages”, Banana Tail creator MARK McKENNA, ALBERTO RUIZ, links, a color section and Swim’s THE VENTURE BROTHERS, links, a MANLEY, links, color section and more, product reviews, a new MAHNKE cover, links, a color section and more! more! New RUDE cover! color section and more! New BAKER cover! plus a FREE ROUGH STUFF #3 PREVIEW! and a FREE ALTER EGO #70 PREVIEW! (104-page magazine with COLOR) $5.95 (112-page magazine with COLOR) $5.95 (96-page magazine) SOLD OUT (88-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 (84-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 (Digital edition) $2.95

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DRAW! #15 DRAW! #16 DRAW! #17 DRAW! #18 DRAW! #20 BACK TO SCHOOL ISSUE, covering major In-depth interview and coverage of the An in-depth interview and tutorial with Features an in-depth interview and demo WALTER SIMONSON interview and demo, schools offering comic art as part of their creative process of HOWARD CHAYKIN, ’s creator and artist BRYAN LEE by R.M. GUERA (the artist of Vertigo’s Rough Stuff’s BOB McLEOD gives a “Rough curriculum, featuring faculty, student, and behind the drawing board and animation O’MALLEY on how he creates the Scalped), behind-the-scenes in the Batcave Critique” of a newcomer’s work, Write graduate interviews in an ultimate overview desk with JAY STEPHENS, more COMIC acclaimed series, plus learn how B.P.R.D.’s with ’s JAMES TUCKER Now’s DANNY FINGEROTH spotlights of collegiate-level comic art classes! Plus, a ART BOOTCAMP (this time focusing on GUY DAVIS creates the fabulous work on on the new hit show “: The Brave writer/artist , JAMAR NICHOLAS “how-to” demo/interview with B.P.R.D.’S HOW TO USE REFERENCE), and his series. Also, more Comic Art Bootcamp: and the Bold,” plus product reviews by reviews the best art supplies and tool tech- GUY DAVIS, MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ WORKING FROM PHOTOS by BRET Learning from The Great by JAMAR NICHOLAS, and Boot nology, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS COMIC ART BOOTCAMP series, a FREE BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY. Plus, reviews, BRET BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY, Camp’s “Anatomy: Part 2” by BRET offer “Comic Art Bootcamp” lessons, plus WRITE NOW #17 PREVIEW, and more! resources and more! reviews, and more! BLEVINS and MIKE MANLEY! links, book reviews, and more! (84-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 (84-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 (84-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 (84-page magazine with COLOR) $6.95 (84-page magazine with COLOR) (Digital edition) $2.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 (Digital edition) $2.95 $7.95 US • Ships January 2011 THE PROFESSIONAL “HOW-TO” MAGAZINE ON COMICS & CARTOONING WWW.DRAWMAGAZINE.COM

FALL 2010 CONTENTS VOL. 1, NO. 19

Editor-in-Chief • Michael Manley Mike Manley interviews the penciler Designer • Eric Nolen-Weathington of Justice and Wolverine: Origins Publisher • John Morrow 3 Logo Design • Proofreader • Eric Nolen-Weathington Front Cover Illustration • Doug Braithwaite

ROUGH CRITIQUE We welcome Rough Stuff’s Bob McLeod, DRAW! Fall 2010, Vol. 1, No. 19 20 here to give practical advice and tips was produced by Action Planet, on how to improve your work Inc. and published by TwoMorrows Publishing.

Michael Manley, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher.

Editorial Address: P.O. Box 2129 Upper Darby, PA 19082 WRITER/ARTIST SPOTLIGHT: R. SIKORYAK Subscription Address: Write Now’s Danny Fingeroth begins his new TwoMorrows Publishing 24 10407 Bedfordtown Drive feature on top writer/artists, and interviews Raleigh, NC 27614 the master of the mash-up

DRAW! and its logo are trademarks of Action Planet, Inc. All contributions herein are copyright 2010 by their respective con- tributors.

Action Planet, Inc. and TwoMorrows Publishing accept no responsibility for unso- licited submissions. All artwork herein is copyright the year of production, its creator (if work-for-hire, the entity which contracted COMIC ART BOOTCAMP said artwork); the characters featured in said “Here Comes the Judge Parker” artwork are trademarks or registered trade- marks of their respective owners; and said 38 by Mike Manley artwork or other trademarked material is printed in these pages with the consent of the copyright holder and/or for journalistic, educational and historical purposes with no infringement intended or implied.

This entire issue is © 2010 Action Planet Inc. and TwoMorrows Publishing and may not be reprinted or retransmitted without written permission of the copyright holders. ISSN 1932-6882. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING. GALLERY OF JUSTICE A gallery of Doug Braithwaite pencils 69 for the Justice mini-series. DRAWING AHEAD

Watercolor elcome back everyone! It’s been a little while since the last issue came out, but by Bret Blevins many things have been happening here at DRAW! central since our last issue. WThis issue we also welcome two new regular contributors to the pages of DRAW! to sit at the table every month: Danny (Write Now!) Fingeroth and Bob (Rough Stuff) McLeod. The “Rough Critique” lessons Bob started in Rough Stuff will continue here in DRAW!, and Danny will offer regular interviews with comic personalities and artists. So while those two fellows’ respective TwoMorrows magazines have stopped pub- lication for now, it’s great that both Danny and Bob can continue to bring their great con- tributions to the study, appreciation, and learning of the art form to the pages of DRAW! Also while we were away, I started a new regular job (one, it seems, of many). I am the new artist on the Judge Parker newspaper strip, and I decided to do an article this issue on doing the strip and all that entails. There are many more things underway here, and I plan on making the DRAW! magazine blog much more active this year. So stop on by http://draw-magazine.blogspot.com and leave a comment to let me know what you are looking for as far as learning, articles, tips, and interviews.

Mike Manley, editor

E-mail: [email protected] Website: www.draw-magazine.blogspot.com Snail mail: PO Box 2129, Upper Darby, PA 19082

2 DRAW! • FALL 2010 SHININGSHINING THE THE LIGHTLIGHT ON... ON...

DOUGDOUG BRAITHWAITEBRAITHWAITE Interview conducted by Mike Manley rom The to and Wolverine, Doug Braithwaite has been one of Fthe top artist/pencilers in the business for two decades. DRAW! catches up with this busy, in-demand artist to talk about his work and his process.

DRAW!: How do you start your day, etc.? mainly because that’s when the offices in America open (which DOUG BRAITHWAITE: My day usually starts around 10:30 are five hours behind us here in the UK), but more importantly a.m., once I’ve had breakfast, read the mail, and fed and watered because I like to concentrate and get my head into my work early. the two stray, feral cats that we are currently caring for. Once I’ve And I find that two hours can easily be lost answering e-mails tended to all that I will start work (I’m sure this routine sounds first thing in the morning; they have a terrible way of eating into familiar to most creators—with the exception of dealing with work time. wild cats). I work at home, and my studio is the top floor of the house. I DRAW!: Who were the artists you were sharing the studio with? used to share a studio in London a few years back, and it was Did you work with any of them? I have shared a studio many great fun. I shared with four other artists, and while I found in the times and I find the company a great booster, especially on the beginning it was great having other people’s energy and enthusi- days when you get in a rut. asm to bounce off of, after six years of it, I now find I’m more DB: Originally I shared the studio with four other creators, and it comfortable having my own creative space to work in. I can do changed a bit over the years as people moved on, but the original things at my own pace, play my own music, or have complete crowd was Kev Hopgood, who worked for Marvel and is best silence when it’s necessary. Generally fewer distractions all known to fans for his work on and War Machine in the around, it’s something to do with getting older, I think. ’90s (he later went on to work in advertising and games design); Anyway, once I’m ensconced in the studio I might check my , who was an editor for Marvel UK and lately for e-mails, but recently I’ve been leaving them to later on in the day, Titan publishing (he is also a fantastic wildlife and dinosaur

4 DRAW! • FALL 2010 (left) Detail from Justice #8. painted over Doug’s pencils on the series. (above and right) Pencil panels from Marvel’s Universe X series, where Doug first worked in collaboration with Alex Ross.

FLASH ™ AND © DC COMICS. UNIVERSE AND ALL RELATED CHARACTERS ™ AND © MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. artist); , ex-editor at Marvel UK and 2000AD (he used the stu- dio as a base to do his writing); and Brian Williamson, another artist at Marvel UK, who, I think, is currently working on Dr. Who. Clockwork Studios in south London was where we had studio space, and it was in a building totally devoted, thanks to the owner Noel Perkins, to artists and artisans. It was a very creative environment in which to work. There must have been about 15 or so people over two floors of the building, and there was everything from potters to milliners, actors, illustrators, sculptors, fashion designers, and in a little corner of the building, us comics boys. I never went to art school, but my wife, who did, said the smells of paint and clay, and the atmosphere generally, reminded her of her art school days. It was an open plan building with lightweight panels dividing spaces, and the building in itself was interesting in that it was a large warehouse space that had once belonged to Fred Karno of Karno’sArmy and had been known as the Fun Factory at the early part of the 1900s. For those who have never heard of Fred Karno or his army, and their significance, it was his theatrical company that took Stan Laurel and Charlie Chaplin to the States in a comedy show in 1910. Fred Karno trained his artists, wrote and rehearsed the sketches and cre- ated the scenery and costumes in the building we were in. In a tall narrow building next door to the studio was where the backdrops for stage shows were created and hung from a vaulted ceiling. Karno had lived in the large Victorian house next door and Noel rented this out to some of the artists from the stu- dio. There was a garden out the back that adjoined our studio, and it was a nice place to hang out in the summer. It was an inspiring environment, knowing such great comedic talents had once walked around and trained in the very building we worked in. I often wondered why more people interested in the history of the building didn’t visit, but I now know they had changed the name of the road many years before, so it wasn’t so easy to find. It was a great place to work and I spent six years there and only left when I moved out of London. As you mentioned, having so many creative people around you had the effect of boosting your own creativity and, of course, there were many laughs to be had on a daily basis.

5 DRAW! • FALL 2010 Detail from a page of Doug’s pencils for Universe X.

ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND © MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC.

DRAW!: What kind of process do you go through for doing your much as I could without losing the essence of my work. I pencilling, breaking down your pages, etc.? thought it would be more of a help to the to see some of DB: When I get a new script, I will usually settle down and spend my workings out, help them understand forms and the like, rather some time reading it through and making notes. I tend to read a than be a hindrance. script through two or three times before I draw anything, playing the story and scenes through my head so I get a good visual feel DRAW!: Talk a bit more about this first step, because I think it’s of the pacing and choreography and the staging of the characters. really an important one, maybe the most important, and it’s Then I’ll make notes for what reference I’ll need from the editors where artists really differ in their thinking. As you read the script or writer, which usually tends to be for flashback scenes or cos- and images appear, is it like watching a movie that you pull stills tume reference for specific characters. On the final readthrough from, or do you see it gelling even from the beginning as comic of a script I will start to make tiny visual notes in the margins, drawing? Do you imagine the flow of images as panels on pages pinpointing the key moments of and beats within the or is it still hazy? frames of the story. These visual notes tend to be very sketchy, DB: Most of the time when I read a script the imagery comes to squiggly things that would look non-descript to anyone looking me pretty easily. I may have to re-read sections to clarify what the over my shoulder at the time, but are pretty clear to me. Until writer is after, but on the whole it’s a pretty fluid process. The quite recently I would then do all of my workings out on the final story comes to life in my head, much as you would watch a film page and would always be correcting the art as I went along, or see the story being played out when you read a novel, but for which, on some pages, could be pretty labor intensive. I didn’t certain frames I still see in traditional comic terms. Those frames think this was unusual, as I felt at the time that was the way that tend to be the impact images. It’s funny that being the case, but I worked best for me. I liked the fluidity and movement of the line see those frames being handled with the exaggerations and — working very lightly with the pencil and gradually building up dynamics of traditional comic art. I can’t see those images being to solid form. Hard work, but I suppose you always have to “suf- handled any other way. I prefer plotting the story sequentially fer for your craft” and all that—you live and you learn. from beginning to end, without jumping to the impact scenes that I now lay out the pages separately from the final boards. tend to be more exciting to draw, as I find jumping around In hindsight, with the exception of a few inkers, it must have disrupts the flow of the storytelling. Some artists are good at that been pretty intimidating for the person inking my work when and prefer jumping to the “money shots” and worrying about the faced with all the workings out and construction lines on the less exciting images later. I prefer building up to the impact page with the drawing, even though I tried to clean them up as points in the story, as I am always reassessing the frames as I

6 DRAW! • FALL 2010 draw them, and if I draw it sequentially it’s better suited to the can be fun, I also like seeing the process, the searching for a form pacing of the story. I don’t enjoy working on half-completed or drawing. scripts, I like to be able to plan the story out in full before I begin DB: Artists like the late, great (and I’ll mention to draw up the pages. more about his importance to me later) and more recently Bill These days I put in another stage in the process—I now work Reinhold, both instinctively understood what I was trying to out each page as a thumbnail. I work out the individual pages on achieve by working that way — that is, working things out direct- 9mm x 6mm panels, several of them to an A4 page. These ly on the page and leaving some of that construction visible. My panels are scaled down from the art boards, and I work out the problem was thinking everyone would think like Al, so I had some composition, panels and perspective all at the same size. After all hit and miss inking over the years. Sometimes I’ve had to clean these years of working in the business I’ve found out that it is far my pencils up when an hasn’t understood the way I work, but quicker and easier doing all my workings out at that size. I tried to do it this way years ago, but it didn’t suit me then, and now it does, but I can’t say why. Once I’m happy with that stage I will scale up the small images on a photocopier and then light-box onto the final art boards, giving myself a rough layout of the page to work on. Once I’ve done that I jump straight in and start drawing up the page, adding all the details. I use no reference for my figure work when I’m drawing; clothing, muscula- ture, characterisation (expressions) and light sources are all from my head. I was taught you had to be competent in your understanding of anatomy, perspective, drapery and lighting to be a good drafts- man... old school, I suppose. I had to study these elements so I could use them with- out reference, so I could plot out a story properly, and that knowledge has always stood me in good stead. I love portraying the human form and feel I have a real affinity with it. I love the sheer variety, the dynamics, elegance, motion and emo- tion it can portray, and I hope to convey that excitement to the reader, and to do that it has to come directly from my head. A lot of people say my work is realistic. I would say it is to an extent, but only in the sense that it feels right to me when I work this way; it allows me to express what I see in my mind and put my point across as a storyteller. I always try to be true to the realities of the human form and the real world around me, but filtered through the stylized art of the comic book.

DRAW!: It’s interesting that you mention that, because many, many years ago I saw some Punisher pages by you that Al Williamson was inking. He termed what you were describing as “scientific drawing,” and I suppose with the light record of your construction process still seen throughout the pages it could have Pencils for Wolverine: Origin #45, page 11. looked that way. As much as clean pencils ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND © MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. 7 DRAW! • FALL 2010 DRAW!: When you are drawing right on the board are you using a hard pencils, say a 3H, to rough out? I seem to remem- ber seeing pages by you long ago when I was sharing Al Williamson’s studio, and they were very clean, and the pencils looked like they were done with a hard lead. Inking the Wolverine pages that you penciled, I found that, for me, sometimes those lines searching for the form gave me slight insights to what you were think- ing as well. DB: I’m glad you saw it that way, Mike. Some of those Wolverine pages had to be drawn quicker than usual due to tight deadlines, and I tended to leave a lot more “info” on them. Considering it was our first time working together you did a great job, and I thought you interpreted them very well. Big thanks to Bill for rec- ommending you to me. It’s great to hear you worked alongside Al. That must have been an amazing experience. Al Williamson has a special place in my heart. When I first started working for Marvel, about 1990 I think, my first job was on Punisher on “Eurohit,” written by and . I was lucky enough for Al Williamson to be inking that whole story- line. We all went out to the States during the Comic-Con, and Al was at the show and wanted to meet me (and vice versa), so Don Daley, our editor, arranged for us to see him at the show, but when we got there, unsurprisingly, there was a huge crush of people at his table, so Don just pushed me through to the front and introduced me. Al put down his pen, got down on his hands and knees and crawled under the table and gave me the biggest bear hug! We got on famously after that. When he knew I was travelling to the States he would always try and arrange for me to visit his home, and (left and above) Doug’s pencils and Mike’s inks for Wolverine: Origin #45, page 16. on occasion he even drove up to New York from his place in to ALL CHARACTERS ™ AND © MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. pick me up, which really was kind. luckily Bill “got” my pencils, though I have to say he has devel- Unfortunately, I only managed to visit Al’s studio in town a oped his style the more he’s worked with me. There’s also the couple of times, but I found his collection at home to be inspira- problem that, much as the working out adds to the enjoyment of the tional. He had a real who’s who of American illustration and drawing for someone such as yourself, who happens to see it, not comic strip art. a lot of that working out is seen by the comic reader once it has His inks on my first Punisher story were a real master class in been inked and colored. I’ve done a few jobs recently where they inking, and I have to say that without Al’s guidance and inspira- have just colored over my pencils and, although not exactly what tion I don’t think I would be the artist I am now. He opened my I was after, it certainly gives things a different quality, but I need eyes to the world of American illustration and was so generous to get the pencil line strong enough to be seen through the colors. with his time. We spent hours discussing comic art and illustra- Some people like this method of working, while others hate it, tion, and he was more than happy to answer all my questions. but for the moment it’s something I’m experimenting with. And, being the raconteur he was, it was always a great laugh to

11 DRAW! • FALL 2010 Like Kirby, Ditko, Colan, and the other great artists before him, when drawing such fantastic, over-the-top characters such as the Brothers Grimm (left, from Paradise X) or Kalibak (below, from Supermen of America) Doug is able to make them fit into the world he is creating.

BROTHERS GRIMM ™ AND © MARVEL CHARACTERS, INC. KALIBAK ™ AND © DC COMICS. be around him and hear his reminisces about the days he worked alongside other greats like Krenkel, Frazetta, Torres, and Wood, and about the great respect and affection he held for his long- time collaborator and friend, Archie Goodwin, another lovely guy with whom I was also lucky enough to work with. These are stories I know many pros have heard, and I’m sure we can all share similar tales, but they were all so special to me. Can you imagine, me, an English kid, just broken into the mainstream, meeting one of his heroes and finding out he was a great guy? Al meant a lot to many people in this business and inspired every- one he came in contact with, but I will never forget what he did for me. Thank you, Al. And God bless. I would have handled those pages you saw at Al’s with an HB lead, and I did pencil a lot tighter back then, as I think I had more time to do the pages. I think Marvel was a bit unsure where the story would fit into the schedule, and it may have been originally intended as an inventory story (which wasn’t unusual at that time), so we would have been on a fairly loose deadline. I have always used a mechanical pencil, with 0.5 HB leads, and Pentel is my preferred make, because I found I got nice subtleties and contrast with their leads. Nowadays I use F leads, a pretty unusual choice, and I have to try hard to track them down in the UK. I prefer them because they don’t leave much graphite on the board, but they are still dark enough to use for shading and putting down strong lines. I started using this lead on the Justice series, as I was working on art board that was different to the usual boards provided by DC; it was Strathmore 500 series Bristol board. Originally, I found that my usual HB lead was leaving too much residue on the page and things could get pretty murky, so I tried various other leads. The F lead turned out to be the best option, and I’ve stuck with it ever since.

For the rest of the interview, pick up Draw! #19 at your local comics shop on September 29, or preorder it from TwoMorrows at http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=pro- duct_info&products_id=845&zenid=ic6sc61mrf6bacn9l6q6ramuc0

12 DRAW! • FALL 2010 Constructive analysis & criticism of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD

’m a strong believer in constructive criticism. If an artist can’t take criticism and look Iobjectively at his own work, he’s not going to go very far. We all tend to be a bit blind to our own weaknesses, because we focus mostly on what we enjoy and do well. But realizing what we don’t do well is what helps get us to that next level. To that end, I offer my Rough Critique to artists struggling to break into the big leagues of comic art.

This cool vs. sample page was submitted by Chris Hanchey, who took a correspondence lesson from me a few years ago and has improved to the point where he’s now penciling a new series for Arcana called The Infinites. Congrats on getting that first paying gig, Chris! So this sample page is about three years old, but offers a chance for me to point out some things that should be helpful to a lot of beginning pencilers still looking for that big break. Thanks go to Chris for allowing us to use it. First of all, you need to understand the format and define your working space. See that blue dotted line near the edge, where it says “trim” in the corners? That means that the art will likely be cropped along that line when the comic is printed. So anything outside that line isn’t going to be printed! So for example, Bizarro’s toes, knee, cape tip and hand will all be cropped off in the printed comic. Superman’s forefinger in the lower left panel will be cut off. That dotted line should be considered the edge of the page in the comic. Even a panel border drawn on that line may be cropped off. So never draw anything beyond that line that you want to be seen in the printed comic. And hands are important and should be placed within the panel whenever possible. Hands and faces are primary focal points and should always be placed carefully and deliberately. Beyond that, a good rule is to never crop anything that doesn’t need to be cropped, and those hands could easily have been placed further within the panel. Your next consideration is how many panels to have on the page, and what shape and size they should be. For an action sequence, you want to be able to show large figures up close, so the reader is close to the action and involved emotionally in the scene. Who wants to watch a fight from a block away? So four or five panels is prefer- able. Six panels should be the maximum. Here we have five, but because the lower four are all about the same size, it doesn’t allow panel three to have the impact it deserves. Giving extra space to panel one makes the rest of the page seem anti-climactic. Gutters, by the way (the SUPERMAN, BIZARRO ™ AND © DC COMICS 20 DRAW! • FALL 2010 etc. That juxtaposition offers the most impact and makes the sequence much more interesting. Keeping the same camera angle panel to panel steadies the action, which works against the excitement Chris is trying to generate here. After deciding on the viewing angle, you need to decide where to place the figures in the panel, and beyond that where to place the main focal points. Chris does a decent job of that here, except for panel three, as I mentioned above. You want to place figures and focal points off-center, but well within the panel, cropping only where necessary. When you must crop a figure, as in panel four, never crop at a joint, such as an ankle, knee, wrist, elbow, waist, or neck. Bizarro’slegs and Superman’selbow are not what we need to see in this panel, so the figures should have been placed more to the right and lower, cropping Bizarro mid-thigh and mid-forearm. Here’s where you need to think like a movie director and camera man, and focus on what tells the story and only what tells the story. Everything else should be cropped out. Don’t crop figures for no reason, but when you want to move close and have to crop, go ahead and move as close as you can. This used to be a major problem for Chris (see my critique in Rough Stuff #6, available from Twomorrows), but he’s getting much better at it. You obviously can’t show the whole world in every panel, so you’re already choosing what to show. Be very deliberate and show only what tells the story—nothing else! Next, keeping in mind how close to focus, you decide how big to draw the figures. The goal should be variety, showing large figures and small figures, and balancing them around the page. Avoid drawing figures the same size in adjacent panels, such as panels three and five, and the small figures in panels one and two. I try never to draw heads the same size in any two panels. Once you decide on the camera angle, the placement and size of the fig- ure, you just need to work out the pose. The figure as a whole, and particularly the arms and legs, should be posed on diagonals, not horizontals or verticals. Chris has done a pretty good job of this, Here’s how the page would look cropped at the trim lines. except for Superman’s pose in panel one, which seems deliberate, SUPERMAN, BIZARRO ™ AND © DC COMICS and the two parallel right arms in panel four, which I’m sure space between panels), should be at least 1/8 of an inch wide, or wasn’t intentional. The left arms are also parallel, by the way, and the panels blend into each other too much. Some artists just draw that’sa no-no. Unless done for some purpose, repetitive angles are a line between panels rather than a gutter, but in that case you need to make sure the areas of the two panels that touch are visually different enough that they don’t blend into each other. The angled shape of the panels is a good choice. That lends a chaotic feel to the sequence, which befits an action page. But repeating the same angle with the building in panel one and the middle panel gutters in the bottom two tiers works against that chaos. Angled panels also present the problem of using the corner areas effectively. In panel three, the figures should be moving further into that corner, rather than being centered in the panel. That stops the movement of Superman into Bizarro’s body. By placing them in the middle of the panel, the action seems frozen. That first panel action works well because you can feel Bizarro’s movement from Superman over to the right side of the panel. Once you’ve decided on the size of your panels, the next problem is the angle from which to view each scene. Beginners tend to show everything straight-on, as if the camera was sitting on an immoveable tripod. Chris wisely offers some variety with the two down-shots in the middle panels. But it would be even Moving Superman and Bizarro further into the corner and out of the center of better to have one of the panels as an up-shot. The best artists the panel increases the sense of moment and action. follow a close-up with a long shot, a down-shot with an up-shot, SUPERMAN, BIZARRO ™ AND © DC COMICS 21 DRAW! • FALL 2010 ground, but a simple one that doesn’t detract from the figures, such as the clouds in panel four. When adding a background, keep in mind that you don’t want it to conflict with or detract from your focal points. So in panel one, for example, Superman should be surrounded by sky, with no buildings touching him, except perhaps the tip of his cape over- lapping a building to help create depth. Bizarro’s left hand should also be surrounded by air, not touching the edge of the building. In panel two, Superman’s hand shouldn’t be so close to the corner of the building and Bizarro’s foot shouldn’t appear to be pushing against the wall. Bizarro’s left hand gets totally lost in the build- ing in panel three, and his face seems to be buried in his cape, it’s so perfectly centered on it. Consider everything you draw in a panel as a shape. In panel one, for instance, Bizzaro is a shape, This is how large the head should be. and the building behind him is a shape. You don’t want to place When raising the arm, the elbow is just above the head. one large shape behind another one. That’s poor design. SUPERMAN, BIZARRO ™ AND © DC COMICS While on the subject of backgrounds, I’m compelled to poor design. Notice that in panel one, while Superman appears to mention perspective, one of my pet peeves. I have nothing against be standing vertically and knocking Bizarro away with little “sighting” perspective, without actually using a ruler to make effort, he’s actually leaning diagonally to his right, because the every line go to the vanishing points. But I do object to making background is tilted to the left. So as long as we’re tilting him, errors in perspective out of ignorance, which is far too common- why not tilt him on a diagonal that enhances the design? place in comics. In panel one, he’s using one-point perspective, Remember when posing your figures to place the heads and and seems to be in good control of that. But in panel two, the hands and other focal points carefully. When I refer to focal close building is not “square,” because the wall going off to the points, I mean the primary things the reader looks at—the right should recede to the same vanishing point as the rest of centers of interest. These are almost always eyes, faces, heads, the planes parallel to it in that panel, and it doesn’t. So conse- hands, and feet. So obviously, you need to place the centers of quently, it appears to be sloping downward. The verticals in that interest very carefully, never randomly.Youwant them off-center, panel should all be receding to a point far below, but don’t. So away from the panel border, and you don’t want anything actually, none of the buildings are squared. Neither are the build- distracting from them. Which leads to the next problem to be ings in panel three, which don’t adhere to vanishing points either. solved: backgrounds. Wow, that’s a lot of things to think about just drawing Chris is just knocking himself out drawing complex back- comics, isn’t it?! But wait, we’re not finished. Not by a long shot. grounds here, which is one of his strengths. But just as a page full What about anatomy? Do you need perfect anatomy in comics? of close-ups lessens the impact of each one, and a page with no No, actually you don’t. I can probably count the number of comic backgrounds looks empty, a page with too many complex artists who draw correct anatomy on one hand. But you do need backgrounds lessens the impact of each one and looks crowded, to meet a certain standard. The figures need to be believable not allowing enough rest for the eye of the viewer. So those first within the fantasy world you establish. So with such realistic three panels compete far too much with each other, lessening the backgrounds, the figures need to be as realistic as possible, and impact of Bizarro flying through the air in panel one, and all that amazing work in panel three. And panel five by contrast appears to have shifted to the Twilight Zone. So when should you draw backgrounds? And equally as importantly, when shouldn’t you? Here are some simple guidelines: Never follow one detailed background with another equally detailed one because each one detracts from the other. Close-ups rarely need a background, long shots always do. Medium shots usually need some background. The amount depends on adjacent panels, and whether the setting needs to be established, or whether some background element is relevant. On this page, panel two could have had a much simpler background, and an up-shot would have allowed sky to separate it better from the first panel. Great as it is, the background in panel three does- n’t need to be there, and in fact shouldn’t be, because the action is so intense the background detracts from it too much. Rather than panel one, this is where the figures should be larger and possibly extending beyond the panel border. And if you’re going Here, I just enlarged the head. Usually, we do draw super guy heads smaller to tilt the background, don’t tilt it at the same angle as the panel than normal to make their bodies look more massive. But the closer forms next to it! That’s just poor design. Panel four should be a close- should appear larger when using foreshortening. . up and not have a background, and panel five does need a back- SUPERMAN, BIZARRO ™ AND © DC COMICS 22 DRAW! • FALL 2010 Here’s how the head should look. I enlarged the head and moved it over more on top of the neck, then moved the neck and head both over more to the center of the torso. Remember to construct your figures, don’t just draw the surface. The torso is basically a block, and the neck is a cylinder in the center of the top of that block. This is why it’s so important to learn the skeleton.

BIZARRO ™ AND © DC COMICS the more incorrect their anatomy, the more obvi- ous and distracting it becomes. Both heads are too small in panel one, and both left legs have been amputated below the knee (another of my pet peeves). In panel two, note the difference in size of Superman’s upper arms. Again his head is too small (it’s about the size of his fists!), and his left forearm really needs work. Superman’s thumb is dislocated in panel three, and the anatomy overall is just wrong. In panel four, Bizarro’s head isn’t attached to his neck properly, nor is his neck attached to his spine, his ribs are broken, his abdominals are off- These changes to the page make it visually more exciting and also easier to follow. center, and his buttock is sliding down his leg. SUPERMAN, BIZARRO ™ AND © DC COMICS Note the difference in the length of the first joints of Superman’s fingers on his right hand. In panel five, Bizarro’s detail or rendering creates a grey, so be careful not to put rendering right leg is not attached to his hip correctly, his ribs are once more next to rendering because it flattens the forms. It’s important to broken, his right foot is painfully small, and Superman’s patella is think about where to put rendering and where not to. This used to dislocated. Figure drawing is a huge part of drawing comic books. be the inker’s worry, but with today’s ever-tighter pencils, it’s I don’t think it’s too much to ask that artists have a basic under- become the penciler’s worry. Rendering both sides of a form standing of human anatomy. Someone who draws as well as Chris flattens the form. So only render the side of the form away from should easily be able to solve these issues with a little study. the light. Chris is doing a pretty good job of that. Use rendering So, we’ve covered composition, design, perspective, anatomy, to soften the transition of black into white. Until you get skilled what’s left? What about lighting and tonal values? Chris is doing at rendering, the less the better. All the tonal work can be done in a pretty good job here using high-contrast lighting to give the color in today’s comics, so some artists use little or no rendering illusion of three-dimensional form. But be careful. See how at all. When placing blacks, remember that black ink on white Bizarro’s right knee appears to have a hole in it? See how the paper really attracts the eye, so don’t isolate blacks where they’ll muscle of his right forearm is sinking visually into the dark of his distract from the focal points. Try to balance them around the cape? In panel five, why does Superman’s right vastus medialis panel and the page as a whole. Surround dark focal points with (the muscle on the inside of his lower thigh) get less light than light, and light focal points with dark. his semitendinosus (the back of his upper thigh)? I think that about covers it. Thanks again to Chris for Shadows should be consistent with the light source, and consenting to this Rough Critique, and I’m looking forward to remember that contrast is what creates the illusion of depth. So seeing his new series, The Infinites! If you’d like me to give a place black or grey next to white, white or grey next to black. Rough Critique to your sample page next time, e-mail me at Don’t put black next to black, white next to white, or grey next [email protected]. to grey. This simple rule eludes so many artists. A high level of

23 DRAW! • FALL 2010 SPOTLIGHT

Sikoryak is the author of Masterpiece R.Comics — an anthology of his “mash-up” parodies — and he’s adapted the classics for anthologies such as Drawn & Quarterly, Raw, and the new Hotwire (published by ). His cartoons and illustrations have also appeared in The Onion, The New Yorker, Nickelodeon Magazine, Mad, Wired, and Fortune, among other publications; on The Daily Show with Jon Stewart, and in The Daily Show Presents America (The Book); and Our Dumb World: The Onion’s Atlas of the Planet Earth. He’s also on occasion worked for Marvel (Unstable Molecules), DC (Bizarro Comics) and Dark Horse (The ). He’s recently drawn storyboards for the Comedy Central series Ugly Americans. Sikoryak is the co-author, with Michael Smith, of The Seduction of Mike (Fantagraphics), a comic book funded by the National Endowment for the Arts. He was awarded artists’ fellowships from The New York Foundation for the Arts and The American Antiquarian Society for his comics adaptations of the classics. He is in the speakers program of the New York Council of the Humanities and teaches in the illustration depart- ment at Parsons School of Design. Interview conducted Since 1997, he has presented his cartoon slide and transcribed by show series, Carousel, around the and Canada. Danny Fingeroth He lives in with his wife Kriota Willberg.

24 DRAW! • FALL 2010 Here and on the following pages we will look step by step at Bob’s working process, specifically for his mash-up of Emily Brontë’s gothic novel, Wuthering Heights, and EC Comics’ Tales from the Crypt in the story called “The Heights.” It all starts with a reading of the novel. Then Bob reads the Cliffs Notes version and makes notes. Shown here are some of Bob’s notes on Wuthering Heights along accompanying thumbnail layouts.

©2010 R. SIKORYAK DANNY FINGEROTH: I’m here with R. Sikoryak in his down- the Star Ledger, which has a big comics section, so I saw a lot of town Bohemian digs. Hello, R. Can we call great strips there. And this was in the ’70s, mainly, when there you Bob? was a more thriving newspaper comic strip field than there is now. R. SIKORYAK: Sure. DF: Have strips moved to the Web? DF: What is the origin on the “R”? Why “R. Sikoryak” and not RS: For sure. Back then, that’s where you’d see the comics, in the Robert or Bob? newspaper. My brothers and I would collaborate on stuff. RS: “Bob” seemed too informal, and “Robert” seemed too Whatever hobby they were into, I’d sort of piggyback onto. They formal, so I thought “R.” was a good compromise. would make movies, and they would write stories, and they would make comics. And I’d hang around, to watch or contribute. DF: It has some gender ambiguity. For whatever reason, comics seemed the most graspable to me in RS: Well, my work has a lot of ambiguity in terms of who terms of actually figuring out a way to make them myself. You actually made it, so that appeals to me, too. could really do it all yourself. So I got very much involved in doing that. My brothers and I would do parody comics, and I DF: Tell me your secret origin. What’s your background, and how would do newspaper comic strip style cartoons. did you know you wanted to be an artist, and all that stuff? RS: I always was interested in drawing. I knew I wanted to be DF: A lot of kids want to be artists and love comics, but did you some sort of artist type since I was a young kid. The word “artist” ever consider another branch of art, or was it always comics that just always seems so pretentious to me, but there’s no way around latched onto you? it — other than saying you’re a “graphic novelist.” [laughs]I RS: Well, I got into comics at a really early age, as I said. I guess have two older brothers, and they were really into comics and I just got sucked in. I was really into , and I was really media, so I was exposed, like radiation, to all this stuff at a very into a lot of the that I was reading. Those just early age, and I guess that’s where my “superpowers” came from. captured me somehow. I did a lot of different kinds of art in They had a big comics collection, which I then became involved college, and afterwards a lot of performance art and crazy theater in and started collecting. I was very much into reading newspa- productions, but they’re even harder to fund than comics. per comics, specifically Peanuts, but I read just about everything I went to Parsons School of Design, and I actually teach there except Mary Worth. I only really got into that later. now. I had some really great teachers there, including Steven I grew up in central . We got a great newspaper, Guarnaccia, who is now the chair of the Illustration department.

25 DRAW! • FALL 2010 More of Bob’s visual notes.

©2010 R. SIKORYAK He was into a lot of great work and knew Art Spiegelman and Francoise Mouly at Raw magazine. Through Steven, I ended up interning for Raw. So that was further immersion in the comics world. I imagine that I could have gone into animation, but the opportunity didn’t arise, and comics were something that, the more I got in, the harder it was to get out. college before I met him, which collects a lot of his experimental DF: Raw was a cutting-edge magazine, kind of the next step comics from the ’70s. It was recently reprinted by Pantheon, but beyond the underground, a fine arts approach to comics. What there was a rather obscure, small printing in the ’70s. When I was it like, day to day, working there? saw those strips it really blew my mind. To give one example, he RS: I had mentioned to Steven that I was excited by what they took panels from the strip Rex Morgan, M.D. and collaged them were doing, so he put me in touch with them. I started, really, just into his own drawings to make a surreal, abstract narrative out of helping around the office in 1986. I was studying a little bit about the most straight-laced soap-opera comic. That was just one of postmodern art, which was happening in the ’80s, and was into the things that he did, but that idea of taking old strips and the gallery scene in New York City, so what Art and Francoise making something new and strange with them totally thrilled me. were doing dovetailed with a lot of the other artists that I was Anyway, when I began working for Raw, I was really just interested in, such as the pop artists, and other 20th century helping them around the office, shipping out book orders, things artists, who owed a debt to the Dada movement. Specifically, like that. The day I started working for them was the release party people like Robert Rauschenberg and Jasper Johns, and — from of Raw #8, and that was the same month that the first collected an earlier generation — Marcel Duchamp, a lot of artists who paperback of Maus [which had been serialized in Raw] came out, approached art in a way where they were kind of thinking about so Art was about to become some kind of comics celebrity just dismantling the idea of “art” while they were making art. And as I started working there. It was really interesting to see that that was definitely what Raw was doing, as well. They were happen. I was about 21 at the time, so very young and impres- comics, but they were comics about comics. sionable and excited to be there. I always admired Art’s and Francoise’s intelligence in how they put their anthologies together. DF: That’s what Spiegelman had been doing since the beginning They’re very smart, they’re very well-informed — not just of his career. knowing the medium, but also smart about how to take that RS: Yeah, pretty much. I first saw his book, Breakdowns, in knowledge and make something exciting out of it.

26 DRAW! • FALL 2010 The thumbnail layouts sketched in the note-taking stage often go through several revisions. These are some of the revised layouts for “The Heights.”

©2010 R. SIKORYAK

At that point, they had gotten a contract with Pantheon to start DF: As an intern, was there an active kind of an instruction going doing books with individual artists, so they did a book with Gary on? Did they ever say, “Here’s how you do this, here’s how you Panter, who was another artist who I was really excited about. draw that?” He’s also someone who shifts his style and really plays around RS: A lot of it was learning on the job. I was doing a lot of pro- with the conventions of comics, and then makes them into some- duction work. And when I say I was exposed to these artists, I thing totally his own. Pretty much all the artists there I really would often be photostatting their artwork, so I would meet them admired, and their work really spoke to me. occasionally. The night I started working for them, they had that party, and I met a lot of people, but that was kind of all a blur to me. DF: When you say “the office,” I have a feeling it wasn’t an Then when they started publishing issues again in 1989, I was very office in the sense of a Marvel Comics or an ad agency or some- involved with that. I was doing hand separations of the coloring thing like that. — they taught me how to do that sort of thing. I was learning to RS: Right. They’d just gotten a working space in the building do photostats and paste-ups, getting type set, and speccing type, where they were living, and that was “the office.” The early and a lot of other stuff that’s completely irrelevant now. issues were all done in their loft, so they were just starting to expand somewhat. It was still a small operation. Most of it was ART EDUCATION not funded by their comics, but by a map of the neighborhood — DF: You had some stuff printed in Raw, right? SoHo — that they put out. A lot of my job was editing this map RS: Amazingly, I did. I was doing much of the production work. of the local businesses. This was a business that Francoise was Sometimes they would publish foreign strips, so after they were running that they had started in the ’70s, and they were still doing translated, I’d often do the hand-lettering in the style of the orig- it. I think they put out about twelve annual maps, and they would inal artist. While I was working there, I also was sitting in on hire salespeople — not me, luckily — to go around to business- some classes at SVA [the ] because Art was es to try to get them to advertise in their map. still teaching there. I was actually moonlighting at SVA while I was going to Parsons and trying to apply some of my work at DF: This was not an arty, ironic map? This was a real tourist SVA to my classes at Parsons, which didn’t always work. But I guide map? was sitting in on a lot of different classes. I was sitting in on a RS: A real map. And it’s funny, because it has a cover by Art painting class, I was sitting in on an animation class, and I was Spiegelman, and it’s about the tamest image you can imagine Art sitting in on some comics classes at SVA. A lot of my teachers Spiegelman doing, if you’ve ever seen his New Yorker covers, taught at both places. which are often very provocative and very stark and startling, and, for The New Yorker, sometimes rather experimental. But the map DF: Who were some of your teachers, besides Art? had a very nicely designed generic cover that was meant to appeal RS: I had a lot of great teachers at Parsons. Steven Guarnaccia to tourists, or to anyone who was coming through the neighborhood. taught a satiric illustration class that was wonderful. I studied It would advertise the art galleries and the little boutiques. with the animator Howard Beckerman and sat in on his incredible

27 DRAW! • FALL 2010 ©1950 WILLIAM M. GAINES, AGENT, INC. ©1953 WILLIAM M. GAINES, AGENT, INC.

Bob usually picks a specific artist’s style to emulate. In this case, he’s chosen , who excelled at drawing both humor and horror stories for EC (some of his horror covers are shown on the left). Bob is still refining the layout and tightening the sketches at this point. ©1955 WILLIAM M. GAINES, AGENT, INC. ©2010 R. SIKORYAK history of animation class at SVA. That exposed me to a lot of , Mary Worth, Krazy Kat, and so on. Anyway, Art saw different films that — this is before the Internet — I would never that story and invited me to do a page for Raw, which kind of have had any access to. Maybe if I drew fast enough I could flabbergasted me. I was thrilled, and I wracked my brains to try have found a career in animation at an earlier time, because that and figure out what to do for that, and I hit upon the idea that was also fascinating to me. In any case, I also was sitting in on would turn out to obsess me for the rest of my life, the “mash-up.” classes with Art. He taught a six-week, condensed version of his The first strip that I did for them was a version of Dante’s Inferno history of comics class at SVA, and through that class I met Paul done in the style of Bazooka Joe. By the time this Raw came out, Karasik and Mark Newgarden, who were previously students of I was actually doing freelance bubble gum card writing for Topps his at SVA and also were involved in Raw and were teaching a and I was writing gags for the backs of Garbage Pail Kids cards. class at SVA. I had written some Bazooka Joes, too — made a fairly good Through the class with Paul and Mark, I got into their comics living for a couple months writing Bazooka Joes. Sadly, none of anthology, Bad News. The strip I did was based on the anecdotes those ever saw print, because Topps had decided to update the of composer John Cage, who incorporated “found” sounds into characters. But I was getting paid around 50 bucks, for Bazooka his music. I tried to incorporate the styles of different comics into Joe gags — and if you’ve ever read Bazooka Joe, you know the his stories. So each of his anecdotes, which were taken from a gags weren’t that hard to write. book that he had written, are all done in the style of different So, I was immersed in the world of Bazooka Joe, and through strips. There’s a Mutt and Jeff parody, a Barnaby parody, and college I was immersed in a lot of literature. I was really excited

28 DRAW! • FALL 2010 by the one literature survey class I had to take as a freshman at really trying to find a way to make the kind of comics I was Parsons. I was trying to think of something that could be kind of interested in approachable to a wider audience. In the back of my epic, but wouldn’t be too pretentious, and that’s how I came up mind I thought, “Well, maybe I can play with these conventions with “Bazooka Joe meets Dante’s Inferno.” and I can also create something that the layperson will under- stand.” I was interested in reaching an audience that would DOING THE “MASH-UP” recognize trappings of famous comics, think, “Oh, that looks DF: The question you must always get is, when most people say familiar,” and then, as they started to read, would hopefully go, they’re going to be a comics artist, they seem to fall into two cat- “Oh my God! What the h*ll is that?” So I wanted to get two egories: (a) I’m going to be my own person and have my own responses — have a veneer that people could recognize and style, or (b) I’m going to spend my career imitating one, or a approach, and then, when they actually read the strip, hopefully combination, of people. “I’m going to be and Gil something else would happen and it would become something ’s love child that they never had.” But you have established new they wouldn’t see at first glance. a niche that’s not either of those. Any thoughts as to why? RS: I guess I really just wanted to be , who, of course, DF: But you’re also not doing, say, The Terminator in the style of did all of the old Mad parodies in the early years. The comic Peanuts, or Saving Private Ryan in the style of . You’re book parodies. He was really great at imitating other styles. He picking things that have more of a highbrow aim. did “Ping Pong,” “Gasoline Valley,” “Woman Wonder.” He did a RS: Yes. That’s something else that was really going on. There quarter of all the early Mad stories. As I said, when I was a kid, was a show at the Museum of Modern Art in 1990, the with my brothers, we would often do Mad-style parodies of “High/Low” exhibit, and its subtitle was “Modern Art and comics. By the time the ’70s rolled around, there was Popular Culture.” There was this sense of a divide between high Saturday Night Live, and the humor style of Mad was all over the culture and low culture, which everyone seemed to be talking culture by that point: National Lampoon, Saturday Night Live, about in the ’80s, if they weren’t talking about nuclear war. It was and even Wacky Packages. The culture was already eating itself, and maybe that accounts for the approach I took, because that’s what a lot of the stuff that I found funny was already up to.

DF: How did you first come up with the “mash- ups” idea? RS: Post-modernism was in the air in the ’80s in New York, with Kenny Scharf putting in his paintings and things like that.

DF: Was the idea there’s almost nothing new to say, so why not go back and say whatever you have to say disguised as someone else? RS: I always felt that my work was derivative and not very original, so I just kind of embraced that. There’s a great quote from Marcel Duchamp to the effect that you should steal from dead artists rather than the living. I think his idea was that your work would be more exciting if you adapted your contemporary sensibility to the style of another era. A lot of the artists I parody are alive, but I generally “steal” from people who are very established. They’re so well known that you’re meant to recognize the homage. I wouldn’t want readers to think I was just ripping someone off. What I do is not merely a knock-off of a successful artist, it’s obviously commentary on their work.

DF: And you’re also not imitating, say, an obscure French comic from the 1920s. You’re doing something where people recognize that you’re homaging. RS: Right, right. Duchamp probably would applaud ripping off a French cartoonist from This next draft is very similar to the first. The big difference is that the perspective of the the ’20s. I think that’s kind of what his quote opening splash panel has switched. was about. But that’s not what interests me. I was ©2010 R. SIKORYAK 29 DRAW! • FALL 2010 in a way they never did before, so things that might have seemed esoteric once upon a time perhaps aren’t so esoteric anymore. RS: Right. You can download the entire text of Dante’s Inferno from the Gutenberg version, or you can go to YouTube and watch cartoons from the ’80s, and they’re all free! It’s all just culture, and there’s not much distinction between those things. Or, at least, it doesn’t feel like there is. [laughs]

DF: You started in this niche or genre of doing parodies, and then in between doing those pieces, you actually have a career that seems to pay quite a bit better doing commercial work. How did that evolve? What was your first commercial work? RS: Well, I actually went to school at Parsons for illustration. I knew I wanted to do comics, but I felt like I could make a living in illustration, which seemed more true in the ’80s than it does now. But that’s all right, I’m still finding work. Because I knew Steven Guarnaccia and all the other teachers at Parsons, I made some great contacts in terms of art directors. Because Raw was a part-time or occasional full-time job, I didn’t need to do too much freelance work at first. But working there ended up being a great opportunity for me in a way you wouldn’t expect. One day I was in the office and I got a call from Esquire magazine. “We need someone who can do a Jack Kirby parody.” And I said, “Well, that would be me.” They didn’t know who I was. I think I had had one strip published in Raw at that point. And I am not an egomaniac, but I am the guy to call if you want a parody, and while I wouldn’t say what I did for them looked exactly like Jack Kirby, it did the job. That was my first job for Esquire, With the third draft, Bob reverts back to the layout of the first draft, tightening up the sketches and and I subsequently did a number of parodies cleaning up the captions and word balloons. for them. ©2010 R. SIKORYAK something that was in the air, and it seemed like combining high DF: Of course, what comes to my mind — no and low was a natural thing to do. I’m not saying I came up with criticism of you — is that Jack Kirby was still alive then. They anything new or I put it together differently. Mad has done this, could have called him and gotten the real thing. too. But I think those issues of what is valuable in culture and RS: Well, it’s also kind of strange that a lot of my freelance work what isn’t were a lot more important then than now. And when I is doing comics parodies, but I often don’t write them — but they started the strips, I thought, “Oh, I’m making fun of the high cul- pay a lot better than my personal work. ture, the high literature, by putting it in the form of these comic strips.” But lately I’ve heard from a lot of teachers who say, “Oh, this would be a great way to introduce these classics to the kids For the rest of the interview, pick up in my class.” That seems so bizarre to me. But I think that pop culture has now become the cultural canon. It’s hard to know what part of what I’m doing is canonical when Peanuts is canon Draw! #19 as much as Kafka is canon. at your local comics shop on September 29, or preorder it from TwoMorrows at DF: With the Internet and cable TV and DVDs, people have http://twomorrows.com/index.php?main_page=pro- access to the entire history of culture literally at their fingertips duct_info&products_id=845&zenid=ic6sc61mrf6bacn9l6q6ramuc0

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