Thursday Volume 672 5 March 2020 No. 35

HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD)

Thursday 5 March 2020 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2020 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 961 5 MARCH 2020 962

“A USA trade agreement could help our sector. For example, House of Commons there are high tariffs on ceramic catering-ware imports…and without this barrier our exports to the USA could grow.” Of course we will take action through the Trade Remedies Thursday 5 March 2020 Authority to deal with the illegal dumping of ceramic products on the UK market, but it is simply wrong to say that the ceramics industry would not benefit from a The House met at half-past Nine o’clock US trade deal.

PRAYERS Bill Esterson: But Laura Cohen is not talking about the type of trade deal that the Government are proposing, is she? The BCC has warned of the dangers of the [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] Government’sproposed mutual recognition clauses, which is where the flood of low-quality imports would come from. The Secretary of State’s own scoping assessment says nothing about the impact of cheap US imports on Oral Answers to Questions UK manufacturing either, so why will she not listen to the industry? Should the Government not rethink their approach to the US agreement and look after our own excellent manufacturing sector, rather than pursuing a INTERNATIONAL TRADE policy of “America First”? Elizabeth Truss: I find this pretty ludicrous. The hon. The Secretary of State was asked— Gentleman will have seen in the scoping assessment that virtually every sector of the UK economy, including UK/US Free Trade Agreement manufacturing and agriculture, will benefit from a US trade deal. Steelite International, a fantastic company 1. Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con): What that I visited recently in Stoke-on-Trent, has also welcomed recent assessment she has made of the potential economic the potential removal of tariffs on its products—up to benefits to manufacturing industries of a free trade 28% on dinnerware—which it says will help it expand agreement with the US. [901114] its operations.

The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth Robert Courts (Witney) (Con): Will the Secretary of Truss): A free trade agreement with the US could deliver State please comment on some of the parts of her a £15 billion increase in bilateral trade, increase proposals that are likely to benefit manufacturing and manufacturing output and benefit all parts of the UK high-tech companies in west Oxfordshire and enable economy, particularly the midlands, Scotland and the them to export their goods to the United States? north-east. Elizabeth Truss: One of the points that we laid out in Aaron Bell: I thank the Secretary of State for that our negotiation objectives is that we want to achieve an answer, and for the scale of the Government’s ambitions advanced digital and data chapter. Currently, 79% of all for the trade deal. In Newcastle-under-Lyme we have a our services are provided remotely. A digital and data number of firms that have US subsidiaries or sister chapter will give us the ability to underwrite those companies, or that themselves have US parent companies. transactions and do more electronically,which will provide Can she confirm that a comprehensive UK-US trade huge benefits to those high-tech industries in my hon. deal would benefit such firms by cutting red tape and Friend’s constituency. increasing the trading ties between our two countries? Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): All Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is absolutely right; this debate between the Secretary of State and Labour’s every morning more than 1 million people in Britain get Front-Bench spokesperson shows how important it will up and go to work for American firms, and more than be to scrutinise the small print of the deal, so will she 1 million people in the US go to work for British firms. allow this Parliament a vote on the deal, such as the We want a closer economic relationship so that we can kind that the US Congress will get, or does she think share ideas, products and goods, to the benefit of both that America deserves more democratic scrutiny of the nations. deal than the United Kingdom?

Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab): The Secretary of Elizabeth Truss: We have a parliamentary system State told us on Monday that ceramics factories in the in this country, so for these types of decisions the UK could benefit from a US trade deal, but that is not treaties are laid before Parliament through the CRAG— the view of the British Ceramic Confederation, which Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010—process. has warned of the dangers that low-quality ceramics I point out to the hon. and learned Lady that we also would have on UK industry. Does she not accept that have an extensive programme of engagement with business. the manufacturing industry is right to be concerned We have 17 expert trade advisory groups, through which about the threat posed by the agreement she is proposing? we will ask business for their specific feedback to ensure that we are not lowering standards, and to ensure that Elizabeth Truss: Laura Cohen, of the British Ceramic we have the right standards for our industry. That is the Confederation, has said: consultation process that we are undertaking. 963 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 964

Goods Exports Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): What progress has been made in laying the groundwork 2. Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con): What the for a UK-Australia free trade agreement? Is a timetable three fastest growing UK goods exports were in 2019. in place for the commencement of those negotiations? [901116] Conor Burns: This week we have published the proposals The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for for the United States deal, and my right hon. Friend International Trade (Graham Stuart): UK goods exports the Secretary of State for International Trade is ably were up 6.4% last year to a record £372 billion. Interestingly, leading on Australia, Canada, Japan and, potentially, the three fastest growing UK goods exports in 2019 the comprehensive and progressive agreement for trans- were: one, unspecified goods; two, works of art; and Pacific partnership. She will come to the House in due three, jewellery. course, hopefully soon, to lay out full proposals for the terms of those negotiations1. Mr Hollobone: Are UK goods exports growing quicker to EU countries or to non-EU countries? Adam Afriyie (Windsor) (Con): As the Prime Minister’s trade envoy to Ghana and other parts of west Africa, I Graham Stuart: In 2019, goods exports to the EU am delighted to be meeting a delegation this afternoon were down by 0.9% to £170.6 billion, while goods to talk about our expertise in science and technology exports to the non-EU were up by 13.6% to £201.5 billion. and how we can help to support development in those UK/EU Trade Agreement countries. Does the Minister agree that, as we look out to the rest of the world post Brexit, it is trade with 3. Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD): What assessment developing nations that will deliver the jobs, prosperity she has made of the potential merits of a trade agreement and mutual benefit we seek? with the EU on similar terms to the EU-Australia trade negotiations. [901117] Conor Burns: I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. He does an excellent job, for which I thank him, as The Minister of State, Department for International trade envoy to Ghana. We see enormous potential for Trade (Conor Burns): The United Kingdom has published development and people’s life chances, particularly on its approach to negotiations with the European Union, the continent of Africa, in free trade between us and and the first round of talks is already under way. The Africa, and around the world. Free trade is the route to United Kingdom is looking for a free trade agreement prosperity, and it is the route to lift people out of with the European Union based on EU precedent. poverty. This Government will always champion it for Whatever the outcome of the talks led by David Frost the most deprived people in the world. and “Taskforce Europe,” this year we will recover our political and economic independence in full. Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): The Minister has just mentioned the Department’s economic Sarah Olney: The question was about whether the impact assessments on future trade deals with Australia, Government are seeking to agree what they call an New Zealand, Japan and a CPTPP-type deal, but he Australia-style deal between the EU and the UK. Given will understand that a CETA-type deal—a Canada-style that there is no deal between Australia and the EU, can deal with Europe—will hit our economy by 6.2%. To the Government confirm whether they are happy to what extent does he believe that the trade deals done accept a no deal between the UK and the EU? with Japan, Australia, New Zealand and so on will Conor Burns: We already have a deal with the EU compensate for that huge loss to our economy? that the Prime Minister secured last year. The question now is whether we can secure a free trade agreement Conor Burns: We do not see these things as mutually with the EU. We seek a Canada-style deal, but Australia exclusive. We are now going to be an independent trades perfectly effectively through a number of side sovereign nation, seeking free trade agreements around deals with the EU. Whatever happens, we are going to the world, liberating British business, with the opportunity deliver on the referendum result, fully leave the European to tap in to some of the fastest-growing economies Union and provide British business and the British around the world. We want a good deal with the EU people with the opportunities of global free trade. and with partners around the world, to the mutual benefit and prosperity of all our citizens. Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): Can the Minister confirm that, under what the Government euphemistically Foreign Direct Investment call this Australia-style trade agreement, all the bilateral investment agreements we have with EU states, which 4. Nigel Mills (Amber Valley) (Con): What recent were suspended while we were a member of the EU, will assessment she has made of the potential contribution come back into force? What assessment has he made of of future foreign direct investment to the economy of the likely dispute proceedings that investors from those each region of the UK. [901119] countries could launch and of the impact that would have on UK trade? 17. Elliot Colburn (Carshalton and Wallington) (Con): What recent assessment she has made of the potential Conor Burns: The shadow Secretary of State may be contribution of future foreign direct investment to the moderately confused about our purpose here today, as economy of each region of the UK. [901136] this is questions to the Department for International Trade.As he is well aware,the European Union negotiations 18. Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con): are handled by the Cabinet Office, the Chancellor of the What recent assessment she has made of the potential Duchy of Lancaster and David Frost, reporting to the contribution of future foreign direct investment to the Prime Minister. economy of each region of the UK. [901137] 1.[Official Report, 9 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 2MC.] 965 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 966

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for tariffs on their capacity to attract investment in new International Trade (Graham Stuart): Winning further technology that is essential for our transition to net foreign direct investment is crucial to the delivery of zero. What assessment has he made of the impact of the rising living standards and the levelling up of left-behind proposed measures on the UK’s attractiveness as a communities up and down the land. Companies such as destination for investment, particularly in new green Ferrero, in the constituency of my hon. Friend the technology? Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills), which exports wonderful, quality chocolate all over the world, will Graham Stuart: I thank the hon. Lady for her question. potentially benefit, as will other UK chocolate producers, The consultation closes tonight and we are determined as a result of our UK-US free trade agreement. to get the right balance. We are clear that we are going to have a tariff regime that benefits UK consumers and Nigel Mills: I thank the Minister for that answer, and business, and allows us to align ourselves most effectively I join him in valuing the investment that Ferrero has to where 90% of global growth is expected by the brought to the old Thorntons factory. Most of the large International Monetary Fund to be in the next five employers in my constituency have had FDI at some years or so, which is outside Europe. point or other in their history, so what more can the Government do to ensure that that investment is spread Judith Cummins: I thank the Minister for that answer, out evenly across the country, and is not just focused in but he is not addressing the specific concern that the London and the south-east? tariff schedule could hurt domestic producers by stifling FDI in precisely the places in the country that need it Graham Stuart: I thank my hon. Friend for that most. Are the Government really going to ignore industry question, because FDI is so important to the UK. concerns, potentially costing jobs? Foreign-owned firms represent only 1% of businesses, yet they contribute 22% of economic output and deliver Graham Stuart: I would have hoped that, after sufficient 15% of employment. My Department uses our regional time in the House, the hon. Lady might have understood teams right around the country, and in 110 countries how a consultation worked. The consultation closes around the world, to make sure that we get that message today, and I cannot comment on a consultation that has out. Only yesterday, I hosted a meeting with regional not yet closed. What I can tell her is that, as she will be leaders from right across the UK at No. 10 to show the delighted to hear, under this Government the UK has importance we attach, as my hon. Friend does, to attracted more FDI than any other country in Europe. sharing these FDI benefits right across the country. Indeed, we have attracted more FDI in aggregate than Germany and France combined. If she and her colleagues Elliot Colburn: Does the Minister agree with me and on the Labour Front Bench were to support business with residents of Carshalton and Wallington that instead and enterprise in the way we do, instead of opposing of talking down London, as the current Mayor does, we them, we might see more jobs and prosperity. should be supporting Shaun Bailey’s idea to put in a deputy Mayor for trade to make sure that London Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): With Northern remains a destination with one of the highest levels of Ireland being recognised as the cyber-security capital of FDI in the world, to attract businesses and entrepreneurs? the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, will the Minister outline what steps are being Graham Stuart: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for taken to highlight this massive international market? that. I think the people of London want a Mayor who makes things happen, who is a champion of business Graham Stuart: As I said in an earlier answer, I was and who recognises that, for all the wealth in London, pleased to meet Northern Ireland representatives in there are too many people left behind. We need a Mayor No. 10 Downing Street yesterday. When I visited Belfast who gets on with the job—one who does not act like a last year, I learnt more about the phenomenal tech, and commentator but who actually acts like a leader. in particular cyber, capability there is in Belfast. The Department is determined to make sure that the message Jack Lopresti: Does my hon. Friend agree that free of how investable and how strong Northern Ireland is, ports will help to attract significant foreign investment, and what great capability it has, is understood through and regenerate and create jobs in some of our communities all our posts in countries around the world. and deprived areas? Felicity Buchan (Kensington) (Con): There has been Graham Stuart: I thank my hon. Friend for his question, a huge amount of foreign direct investment in the on which he is right. He is constantly championing the financial services sector,not only in London but throughout interests of his area, not least because of the need for the regions and in Scotland. Can my hon. Friend assure regeneration. Free ports offer that opportunity. We are me that, in all free trade negotiations, the interests of in constant talks with The Bristol Port Company, and I the financial services sector will be protected? know that he is working closely with the West of England Mayor to make sure that that regeneration and the Graham Stuart: I thank my hon. Friend, who benefits of FDI are brought to his part of the country, characteristically puts her finger on an important point. with all the prosperity and employment benefits that Services have too often not had sufficient focus in trade that will bring. agreements. We are very much looking to put financial services, data and other elements at the heart of our Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab): The Minister trade policy, which will be great for the City of London. will be aware of the concerns of businesses and, in However, it is important to note that there are more particular,of producers supporting our regional economies people working in financial services in the northern about the impact of the proposed most favoured nation powerhouse than there are in the whole of Frankfurt. 967 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 968

Renewable Energy: Exports Foreign Direct Investment: Film and Television

6. Mark Logan (Bolton North East) (Con): What recent 5. Mr Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) (Lab): assessment she has made of the ability of the UK to What steps her Department is taking to support exports attract foreign direct investment in (a) film and (b) television by the UK renewable energy sector. [901121] production. [901122]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for International Trade (Graham Stuart): We are working International Trade (Graham Stuart): Foreign investment with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial in film and TV is booming. Just last month, I met Strategy to maximise the overall economic impact of representatives of the US’s Blackhall Studios, and they our world-leading renewable energy sector, including unveiled plans for a major investment in conjunction that of exports. The Department undertakes a range of with Reading University, which should bring £500 million promotion activities, including running trade missions a year in inward investment to the UK. That studio and dedicated workshops. alone is expected to employ 3,000 people and further strengthen the UK industry as a creative and economic triumph. Mr Morgan: I thank the Minister for that response. What support has the prosperity fund awarded to fossil Mark Logan: As everyone knows, Bolton is the new fuel projects in developing countries, and how was that Hollywood. Having appeared in the Netflix show “The funding assessed in terms of the environmental and Stranger” and in “Top Gear”, which is filming in town social impacts of those projects? today, Bolton has generated more than £200,000 in the past 12 months from being used as a film location. Will Graham Stuart: All investments by the prosperity the Minister give an indication as to how a US-UK fund are examined against the raft of UK Government trade deal will benefit Bolton’s creative industries and policies, objectives and aims, and we do that in all cases cement our place as the newest leading media centre in in each continent of the world. the UK?

Graham Stuart: Smoothing access to the US through Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): As the Minister an FTA will help Bolton, and having such an excellent is aware, the Grimsby and Cleethorpes constituencies and film-ready advocate for Bolton as my hon. Friend, I are major centres for the renewables sector. Many of the look forward to him appearing, perhaps even with a smaller businesses are vital parts of the supply chain, speaking role, in future productions. It is notable that, and they would like to get more involved in exports. in the past two years alone, we have seen the BBC, Will the Minister agree to meet me and a delegation Netflix and Sky all using Bolton as locations for major from the local industry to explore the possibilities? productions, including “Peaky Blinders”, which I can certainly see him in; the “Last Tango in Halifax”, where Graham Stuart: I am grateful to my hon. Friend. He he may be a younger love interest; “The Stranger”, will be aware that the offshore wind sector deal, published although I know he never tries to be; and “Cobra”, in March 2019, sets an ambition of increasing exports which perhaps suggests his action credentials. fivefold to £2.6 billion by 2030. He and I, in our respective constituencies, have seen the transformation Mr Speaker: The famous film “Spring and Port Wine” of the economics of offshore wind. We are now seeing was also filmed in Bolton. UK Export Finance, for instance, financing major investments in Taiwan and other parts of the world, Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): Mr Speaker, with UK exports and UK expertise, not least from my you should also know that the filming of the new hon. Friend’s constituency, at the heart of that. I would Batman movie has been happening in my constituency be delighted to meet him. in Glasgow. Is it still the intention of the UK Government not to 17. [901135] Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab): A implement the EU copyright directive because of Brexit? recent investigation by “Newsnight” and Greenpeace If so, what analysis have they done on what impact that found that UK Export Finance is financing oil and gas will have on foreign direct investment in film and the companies that will emit 69 million tonnes of carbon a creative industries? year—nearly a sixth of the UK’s annual emissions. It is ridiculous to talk about tackling climate change in this Graham Stuart: Now that we have departed the EU, country when we are exporting our carbon footprint we are determined to ensure that we remain the leading abroad. Will the Minister commit to phasing out this production hub globally, as we increasingly have been support by 2021? in film, not least thanks to the skill, expertise and beauty of the people and the places, including in the hon. Lady’s constituency. Graham Stuart: The Government are investing £2.5 billion in clean growth innovation by 2021, as set out in the industrial strategy. The offshore wind sector Bilateral Trade Relations: Japan deal commits the sector to investing up to £250 million, building a stronger UK supply chain. It is a transition—a 7. Tom Randall (Gedling) (Con): What recent steps transition away from fossil fuels to cleaner technologies— she has taken to help improve bilateral trade relations and we intend to drive that ever faster. with Japan. [901123] 969 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 970

10. Mr Richard Holden (North West Durham) (Con): The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth What recent steps she has taken to help improve bilateral Truss): Some 30,000 small and medium-sized enterprises trade relations with Japan. [901128] already trade with the United States. In the new free trade agreement, we will be asking for a dedicated SME The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth chapter that removes customs red tape, does more stuff Truss): Japan is the third largest economy in the world online and makes it much easier for our fantastic small and a key partner of the UK. I visited Japan in September businesses to trade with the United States. to promote UK trade and we are shortly likely to commence our free trade negotiations with it. Katherine Fletcher: Many businesses in South Ribble stand to benefit hugely from a free trade agreement Tom Randall: London 2012 offered an opportunity with the USA—not least Leyland Exports, a commercial not only for Britain to showcase itself to the world, but vehicle and silicone hose specialist. Does the Secretary for the competing nations to showcase themselves to the of State agree that we must push hard to secure a free host nation. May I ask what steps the Department is trade deal that benefits businesses of all sizes in all taking to promote Great Britain at the forthcoming regions, and supports supply chains? Olympic and Paralympic games in Tokyo? Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is right. I understand Elizabeth Truss: I understand that Japan will be using that Leyland Exports can face up to 25% tariffs on the a lot of British-made products in the Olympics, for export of goods vehicles to the United States, and 5% example, the white water obstacles made by UK company tariffs on its exports to Australia. In the free trade RapidBlocs. During Tokyo 2020, we will be hosting a agreements we are looking for from the United States series of promotional events, and I look forward to and Australia, one of our key asks will be to get rid of Team GB celebrating its success with Scotch whisky those tariffs, and to make it much easier for the car and English sparkling wine. industry—by reducing testing and red tape—to ensure that we can get our fantastic exports into those markets. Mr Holden: Nissan is very important to the north-east UK Ports of Entry and employs hundreds directly in my constituency and hundreds more via the supply chain. What further benefits will a new free trade agreement with Japan, 9. Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab): What recent which is currently being pursued by the Government, discussions she has had with Cabinet colleagues on the bring to manufacturers and suppliers in my constituency? preparedness of UK ports of entry to facilitate international trade after the transition period. [901125] Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Nissan’s Sunderland plant is the most productive in The Minister of State, Department for International Europe, and I can see every reason why the Japanese are Trade (Greg Hands): We are using the transition period likely to put even more investment there and make more to ensure that the UK rises to the challenges of leaving cars there. There are opportunities through the Japan the European Union while being ready to take advantage FTA and the US FTA where Nissan already exports of all the benefits. Work on ports preparedness is being from its UK factory. led by the Cabinet Office’s border delivery group. I remind the House and onlookers that tonight is the closure of our consultation on the new UK global tariff. Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op): Should not the Secretary of State be looking at the way in Mary Glindon: Can the Minister ensure that virtual which we source things in this country—whether from free ports will be considered during the free ports Japan or China. We know that many of the drugs that bidding process, so that we can protect existing jobs in we need to fight this virus are actually made in India, the north-east as well as creating new ones? and it is not allowing us to have a full complement of imports. We also know that firms all over our country are closing down because China is the workshop of the Greg Hands: The hon. Member makes an extremely world and it is exporting nothing. What is she going to good point, and that is one of the points of the free port do in the future to secure those supply chains? policy. We launched the consultation last month with the Command Paper, and it closes on 20 April. It would not be proper for me to make comments specifically Elizabeth Truss: First, we are participating in the about the location of future free ports, but the Tyne efforts to tackle coronavirus through the cross-Government port in particular is very important to this country, as it working group. The Prime Minister chaired a Cobra is the second largest vehicle port in the nation. Free meeting on Monday to make sure that we are dealing ports are designed to support jobs, trade and investment. with those supply chain issues. Furthermore, I expect the Trade Remedies Authority to play a strong role in UK/US Trade Agreement: Thames Valley making sure that we do not see the dumping of products on the UK market. 11. Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con): What assessment she has made of the potential economic benefits to the UK/US Trade Agreement: SMEs Thames valley of a trade agreement with the US. [901129] 8. Katherine Fletcher (South Ribble) (Con): What recent assessment she has made of the potential economic The Minister of State, Department for International benefits to small and medium-sized enterprises of a Trade (Greg Hands): An ambitious United States free trade agreement with the US. [901124] trade agreement could boost the economy in the south-east, 971 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 972 including the Thames valley, by £622 million in the long Saqib Bhatti: To meet the challenges of our time, we run, supporting the growth of key local industries such must ensure that we create an environment where we as professional business services, and automotive and encourage tech start-ups to set up, thrive and innovate. digital businesses. The FTA presents a golden opportunity What are the Secretary of State and Ministers doing to for the region, which has a thriving trade with America, ensure that tech start-ups in the west midlands are able with the equivalent of £14,000 of goods exported to the to fulfil their potential? US every minute. Elizabeth Truss: Birmingham has the largest tech Greg Smith: The Thames valley is home to many high- sector outside London. It has firms specialising in FinTech, tech businesses, not least in the north of my constituency games, health-tech and cyber-security. We will keep the of Buckingham crossing into Northamptonshire at UK at the top of the investment tree. Last year we saw Silverstone Park. Can my right hon. Friend outline the investment in UK tech growing faster than in any other steps he is taking to ensure that we are supporting nation in the world. We need to keep at the forefront, high-tech businesses at places such as Silverstone Park and there are huge opportunities for our tech industry. to grow, prosper and bring global solutions in areas such as low-carbon transport, and that they are at the Gagan Mohindra: Will my right hon. Friend the forefront of our negotiations for a free trade deal with Secretary of State join me in celebrating the fact that the United States? last year investment into the UK’s tech start-ups grew more than anywhere else in the world? Will she outline Greg Hands: May I start by congratulating my hon. the steps she is taking to build on this fantastic achievement? Friend yet again on being a brilliant new representative for the Buckingham constituency? The Silverstone Elizabeth Truss: After we have left the European technology cluster includes excellent tech and start-up Union, we have a huge opportunity to strike new data companies such as Advanced Automotive Technologies, and digital agreements with the rest of the world. We Altair Engineering, room44 e-bikes and many more. are looking for a data and digital chapter in the US Those are exactly the kind of companies that we want FTA. We are looking for an advanced data and digital to see exporting more to the USA and to benefit from chapter with Japan. We have the opportunity to create a fewer hurdles to trade. That is why both sides want an global powerhouse here in the UK. SME chapter in the trade deal. Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab): As Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): the Secretary of State said, the UK is a world leader in The Government’s own figures show that a US trade future technology, yet it is also assessed to be one of the deal could raise the north-east’s economy by a maximum sectors most at risk from Brexit. Therefore, new of 0.4% a year and that a no-deal Brexit will cut the opportunities for tech sector start-ups are absolutely north-east’seconomy by up to 10%. Is this the Government’s important. The Department was recently criticised by idea of levelling up—to destroy thousands of jobs in tech sector magazines for cutting funding for the tradeshow the north-east? access programme, which is used by entrepreneurs in the tech sector to get to potential clients overseas. So Greg Hands: The hon. Member does not do this will she set out what funding will be available, and with question justice. Our objective, of course, is to have what long-term guarantees for those SMEs and start-ups, both a very good free trade deal with the European so that they can make the best of opportunities through Union and a new trade deal with the United States of the TAP? America, which would have the potential to raise the gross value added of the north-eastern region by some Elizabeth Truss: I disagree with the premise of the £170 million. She should join us, work with us and hon. Lady’s question. Now that we have left the EU, we ensure that the benefits of these deals can be heard by have the opportunity to set our own rules and regulations all her constituents across the region. in tech, and really lead the world in areas like artificial intelligence and blockchain. That is exactly what we are Global Exports: Tech Start-ups seeking to do with these new free trade agreements. We are also seeking, at the World Trade Organisation, to 12. Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con): What recent steps lead in areas like the joint statement on e-commerce, she has taken to support UK tech start-ups to export and looking for new SME-friendly chapters in our trade globally. [901130] deals to help exactly these types of tech start-ups to sell their goods around the world. 13. Gagan Mohindra (South West Hertfordshire) (Con): What recent steps she has taken to support UK tech Trade Agreements: Non-EU Countries start-ups to export globally. [901131] 14. Dr Rupa Huq (Ealing Central and Acton) (Lab): The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth What recent progress she has made with her non-EU Truss): We are a world leader in tech. Following our counterparts on negotiations for future trade agreements departure from the European Union, we have launched with those countries. [901133] a new GREAT campaign that promotes everything from our agri-tech to our gaming capabilities. The The Minister of State, Department for International Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member Trade (Conor Burns): As we said earlier, only this week for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart), recently we have launched our negotiating platform for a free led a delegation to Las Vegas where he promoted UK trade agreement with the United States.Those for Australia, tech at the Consumer Electronics Show. New Zealand and Japan will follow in due course, and 973 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 974 my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will set Trade Strategy those out. My role within the Department is to support her in scoping out and assessing the potential for future 15. Sam Tarry (Ilford South) (Lab): What recent free trade agreements around the rest of the world. assessment she has made of the effectiveness of the Government’s trade strategy. [901134] Dr Huq: In reality, the roll-over deals struck to date amount to just 8% of our existing total trade, yet we The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for were told that all this would be sorted by one minute International Trade (Graham Stuart): UK exports are at past midnight on 31 March last year. Are the US a record high, with the latest figures showing exports of negotiations being conducted in tandem with the EU £689 billion—up 5% on 2018. We are committed to ones, with fully trained teams aware of what each other doing even more, building on the measures in our is doing so that that can be factored into any future export strategy. Just last month, we launched a new relationship? I am sure that other countries will be business support campaign, helping businesses of all thinking the same, particularly as our objectives seem to sizes to fulfil their exporting potential. be so divergent from the US’s “America first” aims? Sam Tarry: Over the last few weeks, the good residents Conor Burns: I understand that the hon. Lady attended of Ilford South have been writing to me in greater and a briefing yesterday on the negotiations, led by our greater numbers because they are concerned about the brilliant chief negotiator. She asks whether we are pursuing sectarian violence we are seeing in some of our concurrent trade negotiations with the EU and the Commonwealth partners in certain regions of the world. United States. The answer is yes we are, in exactly Can the Minister reassure me and the residents of Ilford the same way that the EU is currently negotiating with South by telling us what steps he will take to ensure that the United States. the Government’s trade strategy always promotes human rights abroad and does not embolden or reward regimes Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP): Further to or Governments who oppress communities that are a that question and to the question asked by the hon. minority in number? Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney), I want to be absolutely clear about one thing: there is no such Graham Stuart: The hon. Gentleman is quite right to thing as an Australian free trade deal with the EU. An highlight the issue of trade’s role in parts of the world Australia-terms Brexit is actually a no-deal Brexit, and where human rights are being breached. Right across no amount of spin or repackaging can hide that fact. the Department, we seek to ensure that all such Does the Minister think that no deal is an acceptable considerations are taken into account, while recognising outcome, given the near apocalyptic conclusions of his the need to engage with regimes that may have less than own Government’s Yellowhammer report, which talked perfect Governments, for the benefit of the people about two and a half day waits at ports for lorries? Is there. It is a balance that we take very seriously, and I that acceptable? look forward to further discussion with him to get it right. Conor Burns: A free trade agreement with the European Union is our ambition, and we hope that it shares that Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con): There ambition. Our ambition is also to engage in free trade are lessons for our strategy arising from Japan’s rather negotiations, which the Secretary of State is leading on, unsatisfactory negotiations with the EU, are there not? with the United States, Australia, New Zealand and Japan in the first instance. I can tell the hon. Gentleman Graham Stuart: We could look at Japan, or we could and sceptics on the Opposition Benches that the interest look at Mercosur, which took 20 years of negotiation. in the opportunities for the United Kingdom to engage Some say that the UK shorn of the heft of the EU will bilaterally around the world, now that we control our be less able to do deals. There are ways in which that own independent trade policy for the first time in almost would be true, but fundamentally, with agility, as many 50 years, is almost unquenchable—I think of the countries have shown, we can do more deals more conversations we have had in the last six months with quickly and, most importantly, bring greater prosperity, the Gulf Co-operation Council, Vietnam, Brazil, Chile, employment and opportunity to my right hon. Friend’s Morocco, Algeria and Commonwealth Trade Ministers. constituents and mine as a result of the UK having I just hope that the hon. Gentleman’s constituents will its own independent trade policy for the first time in welcome the opportunities that we are giving them to 40-odd years. trade with the world and enjoy ever increasing prosperity. Topical Questions Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP): Is the collective mind of Government concentrated on T1. [901139] Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) ensuring that these deals are shared across the entirety (Con): If she will make a statement on her departmental of the United Kingdom? responsibilities.

Conor Burns: I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for The Secretary of State for International Trade (Elizabeth that question. The answer is unequivocally yes. We are Truss): Following our departure from the EU, the UK determined that the entire United Kingdom—all nations has established itself as an independent trading nation. and every region of it—will benefit, and I had the On Tuesday, I was the first UK Trade Secretary in pleasure of returning home to Northern Ireland only a almost 50 years to make a speech at the World Trade couple of weeks ago to talk about those ambitions with Organisation representing the UK as an independent the Executive and businesses in Northern Ireland. trading nation. We will use our position at the WTO to 975 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 976 champion free trade, champion reform and make the to the US. Estimates show that a UK-US FTA could case for liberalisation in digital and services. Mr Speaker, boost the whole region’s economy by £345 million in the I can tell you that Britain is back. long run.

Steve Double: The British Egg Industry Council recently Stewart Hosie (Dundee East) (SNP): Will the Secretary commissioned a report on the impact that changes to of State update the House on the progress being made import tariffs would have on UK egg producers. The to ensure that the legal services trade between the UK report particularly highlighted concerns about cutting and the European Union can be maintained after the import tariffs on egg products when they come from end of this year? countries with much lower welfare standards. How does my right hon. Friend plan to protect the good eggs, Greg Hands: That is properly a question for a different such as St Ewe Free Range Eggs in my constituency, Question Time, because it is Taskforce Europe that is which produces the finest free range eggs money can responsible for our future trading relations with the buy, against the bad eggs from countries with lower European Union. What I can say to the hon. Member is welfare standards? that the mutual recognition of professional qualifications is one of the key aspects we are looking at in free trade Elizabeth Truss: The consultation on the UK global agreements with counterparties across the world. tariff, which will set the most favoured nation tariff rate for eggs, among other products, closes tonight, so I Stewart Hosie: I am glad that that is being looked at suggest that my hon. Friend gets the eggs-cellent company because, right now, if an agreement is not reached in his constituency to put in a submission to the consultation between the UK and the European Union, UK legal and make its views known. practitioners—lawyers—will no longer be protected by legal or professional privilege inside the European Union. Mr Speaker: You’ve cracked that one before! May we have a specific focus on that to ensure that jeopardy is removed, but also, more importantly, to Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab): The Secretary ensure that the associated disincentive to trade in legal of State will be familiar with the Brexit voucher scheme services is removed? that has been launched by the Irish Government to support small and medium-sized enterprises trading Greg Hands: Again, this is really a matter for Taskforce across borders and affected by Brexit. The Dutch have Europe, but I will pass on the hon. Member’s question introduced a similar scheme paying grants of over to it to give him a more detailed response. What I can ¤2,000 and loans of up to ¤1.5 million. What assessment say is that the DIT team promote trade in legal services, has she made of those measures and whether they are particularly the mutual recognition of qualifications, in compliant with state aid rules, and if they are, why has all our talks. I have done that personally in this role, and she not introduced any similar measures to support our the Secretary of State is committed to doing so. We own SMEs, which face unknown tariffs, increased checks make sure that this is promoted, particularly regulator and inspections, and substantial delays to their trade? to regulator, including for legal services, accountancy, architecture and all our professional services. Elizabeth Truss: We are working very closely with the Cabinet Office to make sure that businesses have T4. [901142] Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con): Can all the information they need to prepare for transition the Secretary of State confirm that the free trade at the end of this year. This is also an opportunity, of agreement will benefit the whole of the UK, including course, to get more businesses trading with the rest of my constituency of Ynys Môn in north Wales, which the world, and we will be saying more about this soon in will be disproportionately affected by the collapse of our new export strategy. Flybe overnight? And does she agree that the port of Holyhead is a prime candidate to be one of the new free ports? T2. [901140] Anthony Browne (South Cambridgeshire) (Con): My constituency of South Cambridgeshire is Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend has been lobbying not just the life sciences capital of the UK or of Europe, extremely hard for Holyhead to be considered as a free but it claims to be the life sciences capital of the world. port, and we are very grateful for all her input to the It has the global headquarters of AstraZeneca, the free port consultation. She is right, of course, that a US Wellcome Sanger Institute, which is leading the world in free trade deal will benefit every single part of the genome sequencing, and Abcam, a start-up company United Kingdom, including Wales. There are particular now worth £3 billion, which is leading the UK in opportunities for the export of Welsh lamb into the antibody products, and many of these are exporters. United States, where it is currently not allowed. I also What assessment has the Secretary of State made of the agree that we need to ensure—I know the Transport commercial opportunities for these firms of a potential Secretary is working hard on this—that we continue to UK-US free trade agreement? keep routes open and that new companies can operate The Minister of State, Department for International those flight routes, which are so vital for our connectivity. Trade (Greg Hands): I thank my hon. Friend for that question. When I was previously in this job, I visited the T3. [901141] Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab): sector in Cambridgeshire. We know that the life sciences Last summer, the Government were found to have industry contributes £74 billion a year to the economy, unlawfully committed arms exports to Saudi Arabia for creating 250,000 jobs and developing life-saving medicines use in Yemen. In September it emerged that this ban for UK patients. Annually, the east of England exports had been repeatedly violated. In response, last month £711 million of medical and pharmaceutical products the Secretary of State said processes had been updated. 977 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 978

If she genuinely wants to give confidence that this The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Government will not put the interests of arms dealers International Trade (Graham Stuart): I am grateful to ahead of human rights yet again, will she commit to an my right hon. Friend the Member for Dumfriesshire, immediate embargo on all arms exports to Saudi Clydesdale and Tweeddale (David Mundell), who sets Arabia? an example—not least to the party over there, the SNP—in championing the interests of Scottish workers Elizabeth Truss: I was very clear in the statement I and Scottish business, regardless of politics. [Laughter.] made to the House that there had been problems with The hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South our process. I subsequently issued a written ministerial West (Joanna Cherry) laughs, but all too often she sits statement, followed by an internal review conducted by there and says—as she did just now, chuntering from a another Government Department. sedentary position—“We don’t want it”: she does not We have now fixed that problem. The information is want more resource from the UK Government to support now being provided in real time, and that fulfils the Scottish business. If ever we had an example of how requirements of the court order. the separatist SNP put that single agenda ahead of the interests of the Scottish people, that was it. Thank the T5. [901143] [R] Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) Lord that we have Members like my right hon. Friend (Con): Israeli exports to the UK grew by 286% over the to stand up for us. last decade, and bilateral trade levels are also at a record high, so it was no surprise that one of the first post-Brexit T8. [901147] Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC): Is the trade agreements we signed was with Israel. What steps Secretary of State confident that the Government stance will the Secretary of State be taking to further strengthen in the EU trade negotiations meets the needs of successful and enhance our trade relationship with Israel and go horticultural businesses such as Seiont Nurseries in my beyond the terms of the continuity agreement that is constituency, whose time-sensitive exports just will not already in place? thrive with delays at the ports, regulatory divergence and punitive tariffs? The Minister of State, Department for International Trade (Conor Burns): We strongly value our trading Elizabeth Truss: We are leaving the EU so that we can relationship with the state of Israel and are working make our own regulatory decisions, including about closely with the Israeli Government to implement the how we manage our agriculture and horticulture. Of UK-Israel trade and partnership agreement, but my course we want to get the best possible free trade deal hon. Friend is absolutely correct to identify the opportunities with the EU, but that does not mean continuously for us to do so much more. In my constituency, the town harmonising with its regulations. of Bournemouth is twinned with Netanya in Israel, and I have seen first-hand the opportunities in the innovation Stephen Crabb (Preseli Pembrokeshire) (Con): The and tech sectors. Weare working with Israeli counterparts top source market of foreign direct investment projects to host a UK-Israel trade and investment conference in coming into the UK continues to be the United States, London, whose primary focus will be scoping out and by a considerable margin. Does that not underline the identifying new opportunities for collaboration between importance of Heathrow and of the transatlantic aviation Israel and the United Kingdom. route as an enabler of those deals? Will the Minister confirm that the Government are still committed to T7. [901146] Ruth Jones (Newport West) (Lab): Bearing growth in that important market? in mind the latest comments coming from the US, what steps will the Minister take to provide legal safeguards Graham Stuart: My right hon. Friend is correct to and reassure the British public that our food and animal highlight the importance of Heathrow and transatlantic welfare standards will not be at risk in a US-UK trade links with the US and beyond—not only for exports, deal? but for foreign direct investment. I am sure that he and the rest of the House will be kept informed as Government Elizabeth Truss: The hon. Lady can see that laid out policy develops. in black and white in our objectives: we simply will not do a deal that undermines our food safety standards, T9. [901148] Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab): and we will also retain our very high animal welfare In the middle of last year, I visited the port of Rotterdam, standards. That is very clear and, ultimately, if the US is a major trading port for us—for goods from not just not prepared to agree to that, we will walk away. within the EU but outside it as well. At the time, that port was taking on more than 300 new customs officers T6. [901144] David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and more than 100 new vets for the trade in animals and and Tweeddale) (Con): The Secretary of State knows animal products. Will the Secretary of State confirm that I am very excited about the prospects for Scotland whether the UK ports are making similar arrangements? to grow its exports. Scottish Development International If so, can she give the House an estimate of the cost? does a good job, but it does not have, as it would concede, the global reach of her Department. So to Greg Hands: We are making extensive preparations at ensure that Scottish businesses get the maximum support our ports to cater for all possible scenarios of outcome going forward to grow exports, will the Minister commit from the current talks with the European Union; we are today to increase the Department’s presence on the very much following the philosophy of preparing for ground in Scotland? the worst but working for the best. We are making sure that, across Government, all the resources will be in Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): No, place to deal with a whole range of eventualities as they thank you! may arise at the border. 979 Oral Answers 5 MARCH 2020 Oral Answers 980

Siobhan Baillie (Stroud) (Con): Last weekend, worrying more suited to British farmers, making sure that we are comments were reported in the Mail on Sunday questioning supporting farmers to protect the environment and the need for UK farming and agriculture for our economy. produce great products. In our trade agreements I have This is at a time when farmers’ fields are saturated and been very clear that there will be no diminution in our they are lambing in really difficult conditions—they did standards. not need that over their cornflakes on Sunday. Will my right hon. Friend give Stroud farmers and farmers Robert Courts (Witney) (Con): Some of our closest across the UK confidence that the Government will friends and most productive trading relationships have stand up for them in all trade negotiations, and will she always been in the Commonwealth, and it is time that reconfirm their importance to our economy? this was reinvigorated. What are Ministers doing to explore Commonwealth free trade? Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is right: British farming is vital, for its food production, for its custodianship Elizabeth Truss: I hosted a meeting in London last of the environment and for the enjoyment it provides in year with the Commonwealth Trade Ministers. There is all our lives through its fantastic products. She will a huge amount of enthusiasm to work more closely notice from the US negotiating objectives and scoping together. One of our first priority trade deals will be statement that agriculture will benefit, because there with Australia and New Zealand. We are also creating a will be more opportunities to export our fantastic lamb Commonwealth caucus at the World Trade Organisation. and beef and we can cut tariffs on dairy products. There Commonwealth countries represent 33% of delegates are lots of opportunities, and I want British farmers to to the WTO. We can be a real force in making the case take them up. for free trade and for small countries not to be overwhelmed by big trading blocs. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): Unlike that Government aide, in the north-east we know that we do need farmers—not least because they Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): What action protect our glorious Northumberland and County Durham is the Secretary of State taking to ensure that food countryside. Can the Secretary of State give a commitment standards are upheld in future trade agreements, specifically to protecting the small-scale farmers and their high-welfare to protect infant and child health? and farming standards in any trade deal? Elizabeth Truss: We are very clear that in future trade Elizabeth Truss: As the hon. Lady will be aware, we agreements, we will maintain our food standards. We are developing new farming support policies to supersede were clear about that in the US objectives and we will be the common agricultural policy. Those will be much clear about it in subsequent objectives. 981 5 MARCH 2020 Business of the House 982

Business of the House period is 14 days. I know that the Prime Minister said that everyone who is entitled to sick pay can get it from 10.30 am day one, but what is the position of those who we, as a country, are asking to self-isolate—those on zero-hours Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab): Will the Leader of contracts and those, for example, who are not entitled the House please give us the forthcoming business? to statutory sick pay? We know that the virus does not distinguish between who is on what sort of contract, so The Leader of the House of Commons (Mr Jacob will the Leader of the House ensure that there is an Rees-Mogg): The business for the week commencing urgent statement that whoever self-certifies in relation 9 March will include: to the disease can get statutory sick pay from day one? MONDAY 9 MARCH—Second Reading of the Birmingham Universal credit is not payable for five weeks. Commonwealth Games Bill [Lords], followed by a general Will the Leader of the House confirm that covid-19 is debate on the Commonwealth in 2020. now a notifiable disease? I know that many small businesses TUESDAY 10 MARCH—Remaining stages of the have been affected by this and we need to know that Telecommunications Infrastructure (Leasehold Property) that is also retrospective. The Secretary of State for Bill, followed by a general debate on LGBT+ health Health has said that there is no additional funding and inequality and LBT women’s health week. The subject that there is no ring-fenced funding for local authorities. for this debate was determined by the Backbench Business Tory-controlled councils such as Walsall council are Committee. using £10 million for consultants to try to show councillors WEDNESDAY 11 MARCH—My right hon. Friend the how to build resilient communities. Is that a proper use Chancellor of the Exchequer will deliver his Budget of public money, where councillors are asked to build statement. these communities with Lego? That is all the more reason whythe money for this disease should be ring-fenced. THURSDAY 12 MARCH—Continuation of the Budget The way to build a resilient community is, of course, to debate. restore Pleck library, which cost only £800,000, to restore FRIDAY 13 MARCH—Private Members’ Bills. Palfrey Sure Start, to ensure that youth centres are open Theprovisionalbusinessfortheweekcommencing16March and, of course, to fund social care, which is a very will include: important part of keeping people safe. So could we MONDAY 16 MARCH—Continuation of the Budget have a reassurance from the Chancellor that the money debate. is emergency money to mitigate covid-19? TUESDAY 17 MARCH—Conclusion of the Budget debate. The Leader of the House will know that the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 contains all the powers that a WEDNESDAY 18 MARCH—Opposition day (6th allotted Government need for emergency regulations, including day). There will be a debate on a motion in the name of under section 27, which allows parliamentary scrutiny the official Opposition. of those regulations. The Secretary of State for Health THURSDAY 19 MARCH—Debate on a motion on and Social Care and the shadow Secretary of State have Government response to the Morse review of the loan worked very closely together. Are there any plans for charge 2019, followed by a general debate on the Horizon further emergency legislation? Will he ensure that the settlement and future governance of Post Office Ltd. Opposition parties are consulted? After all, we want to The subjects for these debates was determined by the do things in the best interests of our country. Backbench Business Committee. Twenty-three Members of Parliament in Iran have FRIDAY 20 MARCH—The House will not be sitting. got covid-19. The Leader of the House will know that the UK Government, France and Germany have shown Valerie Vaz: I thank the Leader of the House for the good faith and given money through the UN to Iran to business. Is there any update on the list of ministerial help support its health system. Our British citizens responsibilities? He has given the business for the week Nazanin, Anousheh and Kylie need to come back so of 16 March, but no departmental questions have been that we can look after our own citizens. Will the Leader allocated. Will he say why that has not been forthcoming? of the House reassure us that that is put to the Iranian When will the Windrush lessons learned review and Government, given that we have supported their health the report on Russian interference in UK democracy be system? published? The Leader of the House frequently says I am sure, Mr Speaker, that the House will not mind that the Prime Minister has seen it, but we are in a if I pay tribute to my predecessor, the right hon. Bruce democracy—the last time I looked—and we would all George, who sadly passed away last week. Bruce was like to have a look at that. born in 1942 in Mountain Ash, Glamorgan. He had a There is a debate in Westminster Hall today on 36-year career here,and he made an important contribution Horizon. While this is an important topic, it will also be to life in Walsall and this place. He was chair of the the subject of a Backbench Business Committee debate. Defence Select Committee and played an important I wonder whether there could be more co-ordination so part in securing money from the previous Labour that Members can contribute in the appropriate way. Government to rebuild the Manor Hospital. In recognition We are all thinking about those who are suffering of his dedication to Walsall South, Bruce was made an from the virus, covid-19. Can I ask for clarification honorary freeman of the borough. He was a keen through the Leader of the House from the Secretary of football fan. Bruce was the founder,captain and goalkeeper State for Health and Social Care? Last week, he said of the parliamentary football team, the Westminster that people must self-isolate on medical advice and that Wobblers. Bruce’s wife, Lisa, showed him tremendous they will be entitled to sick pay. This week, he said that support throughout the time that he was here and people have to self-certify for seven days, yet the incubation beyond, and I hope that the House will join me in 983 Business of the House5 MARCH 2020 Business of the House 984

[Valerie Vaz] matter, and I think that that is the right way to go about it. Parliamentary Select Committee inquiries can be sending our condolences to Lisa at this very difficult very swift and effective. time. Bruce’s funeral will be on 20 March at Saint The right hon. Lady asked a number of questions Matthew’s church at 1 o’clock. May he rest in peace. about the coronavirus. There are some very important We are celebrating International Women’s Day. We points to make in relation to people outside the House, know that unpaid work that women do is worth £140 billion and also to people inside it. On sick pay, the right hon. to the economy; the financial sector is worth £132 billion. Lady is right: people can self-certify for seven days, but Let us lead the way in unlocking women’s potential. theGovernmentareaskingbusinessesinthesecircumstances Equal pay for equal work is just one area that we need to use the discretion that they have not to require a to look at. Those high-profile cases are easy to see, but doctor’s note for the second seven days. I think most those other women down below also need to be encouraged. businesses will understand that. I also think it is worth We need to support any claims for equal pay for equal giving reassurance to people who may be eligible for work. sick pay about its availability. As for those on zero-hours contracts, Citizens Advice recommends that they discuss Finally, I wish everyone a happy World Book Day. the matter with their employers, because some of them We know that every child will get a £1 book token, but may well be eligible for sick pay. So steps are being £1 books are available for adults as well. I pay tribute to taken. There are eligibilities, and other benefits are our Library for the fantastic service that they provide us. available to people who are not eligible. It is important that the welfare system will be able to take care of Mr Rees-Mogg: I join the right hon. Lady in sending people who self-isolate or who are suffering. our condolences to Lisa George. It is always a sadness I am not going to dwell on the right hon. Lady’s when a former Member of this House dies, but obviously disagreements with her local council. MPs often disagree the greatest sadness is for the family and, as the hon. with their local councils. As hers is a Conservative Lady says, may he rest in peace. council, I am sure that it is absolutely marvellous, but I I agree with the hon. Lady on paying tribute to the understand why a socialist Member of Parliament does Library. We are enormously well served by the Library, not take the same view. That is a fairly routine aspect of and I hope everybody will use World Book Day as an political life. [Interruption.] I am being heckled by the opportunity to spend more time reading. They might right hon. Lady. want to read a book on the Victorians, which is still Let me now turn to the issue of Parliament and the available in all good bookshops, probably at a highly coronavirus. Many Members may have read a report in discounted price by now. The Times today, and I want to reassure them that there I want to answer the important question on Nazanin are no plans to close the House down. Zaghari-Ratcliffe. Foreign Office officials in Tehran Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con): Alleluia! continue to lobby for the release of all dual national detainees, and I understand that the Iranian ambassador Mr Rees-Mogg: I am glad that there is such rejoicing to the UK confirmed on Tuesdaythat Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe at that suggestion. was in good health and that she would be granted temporary release, so there is some slight good news at Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): It was just one voice. this stage. However, her family have understandably Mr Rees-Mogg: But it was one that represented many. said that they wish to keep her symptoms under review The public will expect Parliament to sit, and to get on and undertake any further testing as necessary.I reiterate with its job. Parliament has proved itself to be very resilient my thanks to the right hon. Lady for raising this every over the years. There is no medical reason, on current week. advice, to think that shutting Parliament would be Inevitably, given that a reshuffle took place relatively necessary or helpful. I will repeat that: there is no recently, the list of ministerial responsibilities is being medical reason, on current advice, to think that shutting worked on, and will be released as soon as practicable. Parliament would be necessary or helpful. The list of oral questions is also being worked on Our approach will be guided by the best scientific because of changes in departmental responsibilities. It evidence and medical advice, and we will take all necessary is important that we have the right questions to allow measures to deal with this outbreak. I can assure the the Government to be held to account properly. House that I am engaging with the parliamentary authorities As far as I am aware, the Windrush report has not yet to emphasise how important it is that any decisions are been delivered to the Home Office, but I am sure that taken in line with the advice of the chief medical officer. the Home Office will review it in the normal way once it A cross-parliamentary group of senior managers is has been. The right hon. Lady also asked about the meeting daily to plan the response to covid-19 and Russia report. The Committee has not yet been set up, ensure business continuity, with input from Her Majesty’s but I have no doubt that when it has been, it will rush to Government. The Commission will consider an update publish the report. However, I remind her that the at its meeting with the House of Lords Commission on Prime Minister has said that it will probably be much Monday. I can reassure the House that we are taking less exciting than people think it will be. The joy of this very seriously, and that we will act on professional waiting for it is, perhaps, greater than the reality of medical advice. what it will contain—not that I have seen it. Theresa Villiers (Chipping Barnet) (Con): When the The right hon. Lady raised the issue of the Post capital city had a Conservative Mayor, he cut crime. Office and Horizon. I am glad to say that the Business, May we have a debate on why the current Labour Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee is to conduct Mayor is failing to get a grip on the worrying rise in a parliamentary investigation into this very troubling serious violent crime in London? 985 Business of the House5 MARCH 2020 Business of the House 986

Mr Rees-Mogg: I am grateful to my right hon. Friend filibustering—to stop themselves having the opportunity for raising this point. It is extraordinary how effective to discuss things. It was a filibuster with remarkably the previous Mayor of London was in cutting crime; it little point. is no surprise that he has gone on to even greater things—and it is no surprise that his socialist successor Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): You’re repeating yourself. has failed to cut crime. I am glad to say that this Government will provide an extra 20,000 police officers, Mr Rees-Mogg: We are not playing “Just a Minute”; and are reinforcing stop-and-search powers to ensure I am trying to answer serious questions. that crime can be reduced across the country. The hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Tommy Sheppard) is absolutely right about discussions of Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP): At a time coronavirus. The Health and Social Care Secretary is when almost the entire country is focused on coronavirus committed to updating the House regularly. I think that and its implications, observers of our proceedings will is important and the best way of proceeding, because find it strange that the matter does not appear on our we are trying to proceed on the basis of medical, expert agenda. Would it not be proper to have a discussion in advice, and giving Members the opportunity to ask the Chamber that gave the opportunity for more in-depth questions, so that advice can be given to a broader consideration than can be afforded by a series of 20-second audience and more widely understood, is the right questions to a Minister? I do not for one second suggest approach to take, though I hear his request for a debate. that we should try to second-guess the medical response Obviously, if or when there is a need for emergency to the virus—we should simply take the expert advice legislation, there will be a full debate on it. and make sure that the resources are available to implement it swiftly—but it is clear that there will be profound Several hon. Members rose— social and economic consequences from the virus that will require a public policy response from this Chamber. Mr Speaker: Could I just say that I am expecting to The sooner we start on that, the better. run business questions until 11.15 am? I am thinking in particular of those companies that will be more affected by the virus than others. Obviously, Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): Further to the there will be an effect on every company, but for some, question from my right hon. Friend the Member for particularly those producing public events, the difference Chipping Barnet (Theresa Villiers) on violent crime, will be between living and dying; the virus will potentially last year, in the London Borough of Harrow, the number put them out of business. I am thinking of such events of notifiable offences rose to 17,329, up from 14,897 the as the Edinburgh festival, which is important to not just year before. Meanwhile, our do-nothing Mayor spends the city but the entire Scottish and UK economy.Decisions his money, which he is given by the Government, on on it are being taken now; the risks are being taken now. public relations and spin doctors. He has been given Those involved would take succour from Parliament £5 billion to build 116,000 new homes across the capital, deciding in principle, though perhaps not providing and has failed to do that, and yesterday a third of tube details, that support will be given to people engaged in trains were running late because of faulty trains. Could these activities. I refer the House to my entry in the we have a debate on the failures of this do-nothing Mayor? Register of Members’ Financial Interests. The Leader of the House will know that on Monday, Mr Rees-Mogg: My hon. Friend makes a compelling the House ran out of time to discuss a proposition from case for the failure of the do-nothing Mayor,but fortunately the Committee of Selection on the composition of the the people of London will have the opportunity to vote Scottish Affairs Committee—the rather bizarre proposal for Shaun Bailey in May. that the Conservative party’s representation on that Committee be increased, even though its representation Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab): in the country of Scotland as a whole reduced by 50% When will the Secretary of State for Health next come in the recent election. When will the House have the to the House to update us? People will have seen reports opportunity to conclude that debate, and when can we on last night’s news that two patients at King’s College put amendments before the House to ensure that the Hospital in my constituency have been diagnosed as composition of the Committee reflects political opinion positive with coronavirus. That has immediately raised in Scotland? questions in the minds of patients who are due for appointments this morning. Should they go in or not? Mr Rees-Mogg: To answer the second part of the Would visitors be turned away if they went to visit their question first, it is of course very sad that the SNP friends and relatives? Should GPs be referring now? decided to talk out the motion establishing a Scottish Until the point at which I came into the Chamber, there Affairs Committee. It is surprising that a party that was nothing on the King’s website to say what the calls itself the national party of Scotland does not want situation is. I understand that it is business as usual in to have a Committee looking into Scottish affairs. The King’s College hospital, and I want to thank all the staff Government will of course deliberate and consider for their work, particularly those in A&E, but we need when it is right to bring forward a motion on the to have more immediate real-time information as well as subject, but it is ironic that those who wish for more the important work that is being done in the national Scottish debate are those who decided not to have a health service. Scottish Affairs Committee. I know a little bit, dare I say, about the procedures of this House, and I know Mr Rees-Mogg: The right hon. and learned Lady when somebody is trying to talk something out, and raises the right points. The Health Secretary will be in that is exactly what happened. One might think, if it the House on Tuesday for routine questions, but he has were not disorderly to suggest it, that the SNP were committed to making more frequent statements if that 987 Business of the House5 MARCH 2020 Business of the House 988

[Mr Rees-Mogg] Mr Rees-Mogg: Considerable resources are being devoted to allowing more police officers to carry Tasers. is necessary. May I add the important piece of advice My hon. Friend is absolutely right to emphasise this that anybody who is worried about symptoms of point, because ensuring that the police have the equipment coronavirus should ring 111, and not go into A&E. I they need—I am glad to say that Conservative police reiterate her thanks to the people who are serving on and crime commissioners are doing this across the the frontline in the NHS in dealing with this problem. country—will help to keep the country safe.

Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con): May we have a Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab): In Blaenau Gwent debate in Government time on the role of managing 39% of ATMs charge people for accessing their own agents? Many of my residents are suffering from cash. The cashpoint network LINK says that without unscrupulous residential managing agents, including Government intervention, the system that allows free those who are charging fees for services they do not access to cash will collapse within two years. May we provide and those who are not enforcing the rebuilding therefore have a statement on how the Government of their property or even establishing a sinking fund. intend to protect free access to cash? Many of my constituents feel that they are being ripped off, and I believe that the Government could take this Mr Rees-Mogg: The issues surrounding bank closures opportunity to show that we are on the side of our and ATMs are raised regularly in the House. Banks constituents. have committed, since May 2017, to the access to banking standards, which commit them to working with customers Mr Rees-Mogg: We will be having a renters reform and communities to minimise the impact of closures. Bill, as was announced in the Queen’s Speech, and The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and it powers will be coming forward within the legislative will be discussed within the Government. I suggest that programme that look at leaseholds, so I am glad to an Adjournment debate is the most suitable debate for reassure my hon. Friend that there will be opportunities specific constituency matters. during this Session of Parliament to look at these issues. Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con): On Saturday 22 February, Ipswich man Richard Day was sadly killed in the town Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab): The Backbench Business centre. It is not the first time Ipswich has seen such a Committee is back in business. As well as the business brutal incident. At about the same time there were two that has been announced by the Leader of the House in burglaries, when a hair salon and a café were broken this business statement, we have determined that on into. We welcome the extra 54 police officers that Suffolk Thursday 12 March in Westminster Hall there will be a will be getting, but it does not go quite far enough. debate on freedom of religion or belief, led by the hon. Suffolk currently receives £152 a year per head of population Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), and that on for policing, while the national average is £192. May we Tuesday 17 March in Westminster Hall there will be a therefore have a debate on the future of the police general debate on tackling alcohol harm, led by the funding formula, to level up police funding so that we hon. Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce). can increase the police presence in Ipswich and ensure May I also announce and tell my right hon. Friend that such tragedies do not happen again? the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz), the shadow Leader of the House, that there is a debate scheduled on Mr Rees-Mogg: Nationally, 20,000 more police are the Horizon settlement. I know that that appears to being recruited—the process has already started—which replicate something that is happening today, but it will will benefit every single police region across the country not replicate it, because we were convinced by the and help to bring down crime. application that there were many aspects of the Horizon settlement that were worthy of further debate in this Chamber. That is why we agreed to allot that time. Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP): My constituent John has been out of work since Finally, the Leader of the House has said that there 2017, despite his best efforts, due to overwhelming are no plans to close Parliament and that Parliament mental health issues. He has been signed off by his GP has been very resilient over the years, and of course we for that period. He was awarded a personal independence should be about our business, but is anything being said payment and employment and support allowance in about planning to restrict public access in any way? 2018, yet later that year he was deemed fit for work and lost his ESA, much to the shock of his family and his Mr Rees-Mogg: The current medical advice is that doctor.Latterly there have been monumental administrative there would be no advantage in doing that, but the blunders at the Department for Work and Pensions, but House authorities will be guided by medical advice. the overwhelming issue here is the disparity of esteem between mental and physical health. Will the Leader of Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Continuing with the the House facilitate a debate on this important issue? issue of reducing crime, Warwickshire police, under the guidance of the Conservative police and crime Mr Rees-Mogg: There is broad support across the commissioner, Philip Seccombe, has been successful in House for giving a higher priority to the treatment of a bid to the Home Office to increase the proportion of mental health conditions, and there is extra spending, officers equipped and trained in the use of Tasers from to record levels, going into mental health. The hon. 20% to 28%. May we have a debate on how the use of Gentleman is right to raise the concerns about his such equipment can assist the police in keeping us safe? constituent, and I assume that he is taking them up with 989 Business of the House5 MARCH 2020 Business of the House 990 the relevant Department. If at any point he needs my and hepatitis. Sir Brian Langstaff, in his closing remarks assistance in that, I would be delighted to meet him to at the end of the week, said that there is a clear need for discuss it. psychological support services for those affected and infected. Can we have a statement from the Government David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and on how they intend to respond to Sir Brian’s significant Tweeddale) (Con): I welcome my right hon. Friend’s ask of them at this stage? announcement on the days for debating the Budget. Ahead of the Budget, and following the question from the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) on Mr Rees-Mogg: Once again, I commend the hon. access to cash, will my right hon. Friend use his good Lady for her work and campaigning on the issue. Where offices to convey to the Chancellor the message that the the Government err, it is incumbent on them to put Budget is in fact an opportunity, as identified by the things right. She asks for a statement, and I will take it Association of Convenience Stores, the Federation of up with the two relevant Departments—the Cabinet Small Businesses and others, to secure the long-term Office and the Department of Health and Social Care—to future of access to cash? A recent report identified that see whether I can get her a fuller response. 8 million people across the United Kingdom could not cope at this time with a cashless society, and many of Robert Courts (Witney) (Con): I would not want to them live in large rural constituencies such as mine. be seen as too much of a stickler on these things, but my right hon. Friend will no doubt be distressed to note Mr Rees-Mogg: My right hon. Friend has made an that the Union Jack above Portcullis House has been eloquent plea to the Chancellor, and put it more finely flying upside down for some time. It could be a mistake, than I possibly could, so I will ensure that his words are and I doubt the building has surrendered to anybody, extracted from Hansard and sent to the Chancellor so but can we have a debate in Government time on that he may consider them while preparing his Budget. whether it is the building that is in distress or the MPs within it? Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab): I took the Leader of the House’s previous advice and wrote to the Secretary of State for Transport on 11 February, to Mr Rees-Mogg: It is a deeply troubling matter that request a meeting on the decrepit state of Luton’s train the Union Jack should be flying upside down. [HON. station. I still have not received a response and the train MEMBERS: “Union flag.”] Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. The station is in urgent need of vital investment. Will the pedants are wrong. It is the Union Jack, and it has been Leader of the House advise me on how I can prompt a referred to as such for many centuries. There is a pedantic response from the Transport Secretary? but erroneous view that it should be called the Union flag, and it is held by people who are more pedantic Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Lady has proved, in an than they are wise. excellent way, that she needs no advice from me, but her I am sorry that this has happened, and I am glad it point is noted and I will give the Department for has been brought to the attention of the House authorities. Transport a gentle reminder on her behalf. I imagine that, as we speak, somebody is going to Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): It correct this. [Interruption.] I see that the Clerk of the has been brought to my attention that the affairs of a House of Commons is taking action immediately.Things business allegedly producing counterfeit antiques have sometimes happen swiftly, and I assure my hon. Friend been made the subject of a consent order, now known that Members of Parliament are not in distress. as a non-disclosure agreement, with large cash settlements being used to enable the perpetrator not only to escape Mr Speaker: Help is on its way. justice but to threaten those who seek to bring these matters to light. Indeed, a journalist who wrote about Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab): I am sure the the matter in a very small antiques journal was financially whole House will join me in expressing our deepest ruined and narrowly escaped a custodial sentence back condolences to the family and friends of Private Joseph in June 2018. Can we therefore please have a debate on Berry, a 21-year-old soldier who sadly lost his life while the scope and use of non-disclosure agreements where deployed on operations in Kabul serving with the second there is evidence that they are being used to escape battalion of the Parachute Regiment. This tragedy coincides potential criminal prosecution? with the announcement that a peace deal has been reached by the US Government and the Taliban. There Mr Rees-Mogg: Non-disclosure agreements cannot are many concerns about the agreement, not least the prevent any disclosure that is required or protected by degree to which the Afghan Government have or have law; nor can they preclude an individual from asserting not been involved. Given the commitment our country their statutory rights under either the Employment has made to Afghanistan and the lives that have been Rights Act 1996—including, of most importance, lost, does the Leader of the House think we need a whistleblowing—or the Equality Act 2010. There are debate on the political situation in Afghanistan so that often legitimate reasons for parties to seek to enter an hon. and right hon. Members are afforded the opportunity NDA, such as preventing commercial information being to discuss these important matters? shared inappropriately or protecting intellectual property, but they should not be used, and may not be used, to conceal criminality. Mr Rees-Mogg: I join the hon. Gentleman in sending condolences to the family of Private Joseph Berry. It is Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) the greatest sacrifice that people in our armed forces (Lab): The infected blood inquiry reconvened last week make for us and for the safety not only of our nation to hear expert evidence from people in the fields of HIV but internationally. 991 Business of the House5 MARCH 2020 Business of the House 992

[Mr Rees-Mogg] on the eve of International Women’s Day, may I ask the Government to raise Huma’s case with the Pakistani My right hon Friend the Foreign Secretary has made authorities? May we also have a Government statement a statement on the agreement between the US Government to reassure this House that those in receipt of UK aid and the Taliban, and he said it is important that the money are protecting children such as Huma? Taliban and the Afghan Government are able to settle things in their way, rather than necessarily having things Mr Rees-Mogg: There was a debate in Government imposed upon them. time on the issue of the persecution of Christians. We raise that issue regularly with foreign Governments in Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): respect of the treatment of their nationals and the To celebrate World Book Day and the joy of reading, protection of women’s rights. The overseas aid budget is will the Leader of the House make a statement setting committed to doing that. These issues are well raised on out his support for a zero VAT rate on digital and audio the Floor of this House in order to remind the Government books in the forthcoming Budget, to bring them into to raise them with the relevant Governments. line with print publications? Does he agree that VAT on e-publications is a barrier to childhood literacy and has Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab): May we have a debate a disproportionate impact on those with disabilities, about banking? As the Leader of the House will know, inhibiting their capacity to read if they cannot handle the best part of £50,000 has now been raised by people print books? in the Rhondda for those who have suffered as a result of the recent flooding. That is an amazing amount of Mr Rees-Mogg: It is an unwise Leader of the House money and it would be good to get that money to who makes personal statements about the Budget a few people, but HSBC, which has the money sitting in the days before it, so I am not going to fall into that trap. I bank account, has said that we cannot possibly transfer would, however, urge the hon. Lady to raise these it out until next Tuesday because we have to go to see a points on Wednesday or Thursday of next week, or business manager in Cardiff, some 15 miles away. That Monday or Tuesday of the one after. seems preposterous. If ordinary businesses regularly have to go through this business of having to make an Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab): appointment, days ahead, to see a business manager so Almost £6 million of pension credit was unclaimed in as to be able to transfer funds, this must surely be my constituency—we are talking about more than 3,000 madness. households—and the figure for Wales was more than £200 million. Given that fall in take-up rates, may we Mr Rees-Mogg: The hon. Gentleman has raised this have a statement or a debate in the House to show what point in the House. It is a fundamental principle of more the Government are doing to increase awareness banking that the owners of the money should be able to and take-up of pension credit? move their money; that is the basis on which people make deposits, and banks that try to frustrate that are Mr Rees-Mogg: I am glad to say that we have Work not operating properly. He has made his point about the and Pensions questions on Monday, which is the right Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation, and it opportunity to raise that matter. The Government are is now on the record. keen that people who are entitled to claim money do so, and significant amounts of additional money have been claimed following the roll-out of universal credit. Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab): One series of debates that I am not that keen on hearing is the one asked for by Conservative Members, which Zarah Sultana (Coventry South) (Lab): Over the seems to be about playing the election campaigns of weekend, the life of a young Coventrian was tragically their candidate in the London elections. May I respectfully taken by knife crime, and my thoughts are with his suggest that this is not the place for running those loved ones. That was the second death of a young election campaign debates, given that the candidates are person from knife crime in the city in a matter of weeks. not in this place? On its own, having additional police is not enough to solve this, so will the Government give time to discuss I want to raise the issue of Secretaries of State the urgent need to take a public health approach to coming to this House to discuss coronavirus. We are knife crime? grateful for the work that the Health Secretary has done in coming to this House to answer extensive questions, Mr Rees-Mogg: The Government are considering a but many of the issues we are raising cover issues under number of ways of tackling knife crime, including the purview of other ministries. I did get an answer to a having additional police, increasing stop-and-search powers question I raised about the Home Office and immigration, and revisiting sentencing, to ensure that people who but I have had an email from an under-fives nursery commit the most serious offences spend longer in prison. provider in my constituency who has told me that there is no insurance cover for her business in the event of any Brendan O’Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP): Last year, coronavirus-related closure. That applies to all under-fives Huma Younus, a 14-year-old Pakistani Catholic girl, nursery businesses and probably to many other businesses was one of an estimated 1,000 young girls, mainly from in this country, so may we ask that the Business Secretary Christian and Hindi communities, who was kidnapped, comes to this place to answer questions for businesses? forced to convert and made to marry an older man. Last month, the high court in Karachi told Huma’s Mr Rees-Mogg: I am not surprised that Opposition distraught parents that because she had had her first Members want to avoid debating Sadiq Khan—it should menstrual cycle her marriage was, in its eyes, legal. So, not surprise anyone that they want to brush his record 993 Business of the House5 MARCH 2020 Business of the House 994 under the carpet. However, to suggest that this House Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab): Could should not raise party political matters is the triumph I ask for a debate in Government time on the infrastructure of hope over experience. required to manage the transition to electric vehicle In regard to matters that are not specifically the adoption in the UK? The Leader of the House will be responsibility of the Secretary of State for Health and well aware that transport is the largest contributor to Social Care in relation to the coronavirus, I would CO2 emissions in the country. We have had debates on advise that those are dealt with by correspondence with HS2, but I would argue that EV infrastructure is more the relevant Ministry in the first instance. That may get important than HS2. Can we have a debate on it? faster answers than trying to raise everything on the Floor of the House. Mr Rees-Mogg: That is probably more of a Backbench Business debate, but I can give the hon. Gentleman some comfort, in that there will be Transport questions Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab): on Thursday next week, when I am sure he will want to Earlier this week, the chief executive of the Vauxhall raise this important point. Motors car plant in Ellesmere Port said that no investment decisions will be made there until at least the end of the year. I understand that that is because they want to see Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): Muhyiddin Yassin the shape of any free trade deal with the EU, but this was sworn in as Malaysia’s eighth Prime Minister on uncertainty is causing huge anxiety in the constituency. Sunday morning, leading to political unrest. Rhetoric It really is possible now for Government to say that they against non-Muslims has escalated following the change will make sure that, whatever the shape of future trading, in Prime Minister, and radical Muslim groups are being there will be no impediments and no extra costs to the emboldened to propose that the new Government pursue automotive sector. If the Secretary of State for Business, an agenda that will significantly limit the right to freedom Energy and Industrial Strategy could make that statement of religion or belief in Malaysia. Will the Leader of the now, it would be a huge relief for the whole constituency. House agree to a statement on this urgent and pressing matter?

Mr Rees-Mogg: The Government are seeking a free Mr Rees-Mogg: The UK recognises the right to manifest trade agreement with the European Union on the basis religious belief as one of fundamental importance, and of being sovereign equals. That is the policy—that has the hon. Gentleman knows how much I share his concerns been announced—and a great deal of background paper in this area. Freedom of religion and freedom of speech has been issued in relation to it. Businesses will be able are vital and interconnected rights. Exercising those to understand that and to make their investment decisions rights requires civility,restraint and judgment from everyone. on what is already known. The UK is committed to defending freedom of religion or belief and promoting respect between communities Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): Last week of different religions and those of no religion. Freedom saw two drugs summits in Glasgow, with the Scottish of religion or belief is a universal human right, which Government and Glasgow City Council hosting one intersects with many other human rights. on Wednesday and taking the recommendations, which included supervised drug consumption rooms, to the Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab): The Leader UK Government’s drug summit on Thursday.The Leader of the House is the person in charge of policies on of the House will understand that I do not want to treat bullying and harassment in this House, and under him this issue as a political football, particularly when I have and the new Speaker, we do seem to be making progress. people dying in my constituency, and when constituents I wondered whether he wanted to send a message today are opening their doors to find people injecting themselves to all those who may wish to come forward to the in the groin and needles all over the place. However, inquiry into the current Home Secretary that they should without any movement from the UK Government, we do so without fear or favour, without any fear of their face the prospect of people in Glasgow setting up drug jobs, and without anything being predetermined by consumption rooms illegally. I am sure that, to save those on the Government Benches? They need to feel lives, the Leader of the House would want to avoid that they can trust in those on the Treasury Benches people acting illegally, so could I ask him to help me actually being able to hear them. facilitate a meeting with the Home Secretary and the Prime Minister to move this issue forward as a matter Mr Rees-Mogg: The Independent Complaints and of urgency. Grievance Scheme within this House is of great importance, and I encourage all members of staff and hon. and Mr Rees-Mogg: As the hon. Lady rightly says, there right hon. Members to use it if they have complaints, was a summit in Glasgow last week, which brought because it can do things at a variety of levels. With together healthcare professionals, drug recovery experts regard to my right hon. Friend, she is one of the most and senior police officers, as well as Ministers and brilliant Home Secretaries that this country could possibly officials from the UK Government and devolved have. She is a most determined, capable and forthright Administrations, to discuss drug misuse in the UK and person. I should like to make it clear that she rejects the explore further action around these issues. At the moment, allegations that have been made against her. She is a there is no change on the matter of consumption rooms dynamic and effective Minister. As a Back Bencher, I from the point of view of Her Majesty’s Government. I found that if you wanted something done, she was one am happy to pass on the message from the hon. Lady, of those people who simply got things done. She is a but I think I would be giving a misleading impression superb Minister and does a wonderful job. The Prime if I suggested that there was an intention to change Minister has asked the Cabinet Office to establish the the policies. facts relating to allegations, but we in this country 995 Business of the House 5 MARCH 2020 996

[Mr Rees-Mogg] Flybe believe that people are innocent until there is any evidence 11.16 am of guilt. Although I have full support in my right hon. Friend who denies these allegations, an inquiry has The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport been set up, and the Prime Minister has asked for the (Kelly Tolhurst): With permission, Mr Speaker, I shall facts to be established. make a statement about the collapse of Flybe. In the early hours of this morning, Flybe ceased trading. This was a commercial decision by the company and Flybe has filed for insolvency. UK airports handled 9.5 million Flybe passengers in 2008, 80% of whom were travelling within the UK. An estimated 15,000 passengers were due to fly today, so our immediate priority is to support passengers travelling home and employees who have lost their jobs. Flybe has had a challenging year in terms of its financial performance, with a decline in bookings and increased competition. Levelling up connectivity across our regions and nations is a top priority for this Government. We are driving forward HS2 and Northern Powerhouse Rail, we have announced a £5 billion funding package for bus and cycle links, and we are investing £6.6 billion to improve the condition of local highway networks between 2015 and 2021. We are undertaking a review of regional connectivity to ensure that the UK has the domestic transport connections on which local communities can rely, including regional airports. The Treasury is also reviewing air passenger duty to ensure that regional connectivity is supported while meeting the UK’s climate change commitment to meet net zero by 2050. These measures featured in conversations with Flybe back in January and, in turn, it agreed to continue operating. Since then, we have been working tirelessly to explore multiple options with Flybe shareholders to find a solution. Flybe outlined that problems with its business had been compounded by the outbreak of coronavirus, which, in the past few days, has had a significant impact on demand. The directors have therefore decided that it was not viable to keep Flybe operating. Unfortunately, in a competitive market, companies do fail, and it is not the role of Government to prop them up. Given the time of year, the nature of Flybe’s business and fleet, and the routes that it flies, sufficient alternative transport arrangements should be available, either with other airlines or by road and rail. The number of passengers abroad is small and it is further reduced as a result of coronavirus. For those passengers who are abroad, there is sufficient capacity on commercial airlines to return to the UK. The Civil Aviation Authority and the Secretary of State are encouraging these airlines to offer rescue fares, and that is already happening. I thank those airlines, including easyJet, which has today announced that it will offer Flybe passengers a dedicated rescue fare until the end of May. We are working with bus and rail operators to support Flybe passengers to get to their destinations, and I am extremely grateful that the Rail Delivery Group has this morning confirmed that all operators are offering free travel to Flybe staff and passengers for a week. I ask passengers due to fly with Flybe in the next few days not to turn up at the airport. Instead, they should look at the website set up by the Civil Aviation Authority, and talk to their travel agents, travel insurance providers 997 Flybe 5 MARCH 2020 Flybe 998 and credit card companies. For those who do arrive allowed this to happen. Recent airline failures have at UK airports today, we are making Government already lost approximately 11,000 jobs. This time the representatives available to offer support and provide Government must respond and provide Flybe staff with information to affected passengers. all the necessary support. Flybe has said that the impact I express my sincere sympathy to those who have lost of the coronavirus has contributed to its collapse, so their jobs as a result of this failure, including crew, what assessment has the Minister made of the risk to engineers, technicians, staff at Flybe headquarters in other airlines, and what preparations are now in place? Exeter and others. We understand that this is a worrying Flybe has provided critical regional connectivity for time for workers and their families. The Department for many locations throughout the country with no other Work and Pensions stands ready to support anyone viable option than flying. We listen to no end of rhetoric affected by the closure with its rapid response service on the importance of regional connectivity, but yet offer, which will be available to all those affected through again the Government have allowed a service of critical local Jobcentre Plus outlets. Additionally, in the event economic importance to fail. Any kind of positive or of any redundancies, there are special arrangements for proactive approach has been completely lacking. The employees who are owed redundancy payments and Government must now answer on how vital regional other payments by their insolvent employer. The links will be maintained following Flybe’s collapse. redundancy payments service in the Insolvency Service Finally, the sector has asked the Government to can pay certain amounts owed to former employees review the 80/20 rule whereby if they do not use the from the national insurance fund. I will work with my slots, they lose them. This forces airlines to continue ministerial colleagues to ensure that any redundancy with flights that are half-empty, or worse. Will the payments are paid to affected employees as soon as Minister address the industry’s concerns on this matter possible. urgently? Will she break the radio silence that has been We recognise the impact that this situation will have happening for many, many months on the issue of on UK airports, particularly those which have large-scale regional connectivity? Flybe operations. The Government stand ready to support the sector, and I have full confidence that it will respond Kelly Tolhurst: I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman as effectively as it always has. We are urgently working in the sadness that he expressed about the loss of jobs with the industry to identify opportunities to fill routes, for people working for Flybe. When any organisation and I have spoken to the airlines today to emphasise collapses in this way, it is a sad day for the individuals this. Aviation is facing challenges globally due to the and communities it affects. I personally am extremely impact of coronavirus. The Government are well prepared committed to making sure that we, as a Government, for this, and as the wider economic picture becomes are working with colleagues to ensure that those clearer, the Chancellor has said that he stands ready to individuals—those staff members—are given the advice announce further support where needed. I will be chairing and support that they require. In particular, we are very a roundtable with members of the aviation industry lucky in that we have been engaging with the industry, next week to discuss issues presented by coronavirus. which is pulling together, and some airlines have said I thank passengers for their patience and appreciate that they are going to prioritise staff from Flybe within the work undertaken by everyone who has again stepped their recruitment process. So that is good, and I am up to ensure that passengers and local communities are hoping to see movement on it as time goes on. supported. We will continue to work across Government Turning to next steps, with regard to the passengers, to ensure that passengers and staff are able to access the obviously everybody is concerned about individuals information and services they require at this sad and travelling and how they will get back and move around challenging time. the country.I reiterate that the majority of Flybe passengers are travelling domestically. As I have outlined, we are 11.22 am working with the airlines on fares and on making sure Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): The that the capacity is there. We are also making sure that collapse of Flybe is disastrous news for passengers and people can travel on the railways. Of course, those employees alike, and will cause real anxiety in many conversations will continue. I am having a meeting later regions throughout the country. The loss of 2,000 jobs— today, so if any MP would like to ask specific questions many in areas that are very heavily reliant on aviation—will or get an update on where we are with that information, be an extremely heavy blow, as will the wider impact on I would be very grateful if they attended. supply chains and regional economies. About 2,000 direct I have great respect for the hon. Gentleman, because jobs are due to be lost from this collapse. What steps is we have had many debates and discussions on a number the Minister taking to help those workers to find new of things over the years, but I disagree with his statement jobs? that we have sat on our hands. We, as a Government, Sadly, Flybe follows an ever-growing list of British have absolutely been working hard on this. We have airlines to go under in recent years, and the Civil been determined to be able to work with shareholders Aviation Authority has time and again made monumental and work with the company in order to secure Flybe for efforts to look after passengers. Will the Government the future. I must be really clear: we are in this situation draw on the skills and expertise of the CAA if existing today because Flybe shareholders and directors took capacity does not prove sufficient to guarantee that the decision to place the business in insolvency. This is every Flybe passenger gets home safely? Wemust recognise not where I, as the aviation Minister, wanted to be with the generous offers of assistance from other businesses regard to Flybe. to support Flybe staff and passengers, but yet again I am acutely aware of the impact that this will have airline workers face an anxious and uncertain future on regional airports. The hon. Gentleman is right: we while the Government have sat on their hands and have spoken a lot about regional connectivity. However, 999 Flybe 5 MARCH 2020 Flybe 1000

[Kelly Tolhurst] Flybe’s demise, they, too, have some serious questions to answer. The Secretary of State stood at the Dispatch we are determined to deliver on our promises to the Box and spoke of the “rescue” of Flybe, yet here we are. country—that is, making sure that we are levelling up, I am sure that some passengers bought tickets as a and that regional connectivity via those airports remains result of the apparent strength of the Government viable. My Department and officials are working really intervention. Will the Government refund those passengers? hard with the airlines and the airports. We have been The Secretary of State also made great play of the speaking to them today.I personally have had conversations regional connectivity review—where is it? It was deemed with the airlines and the airports today. We will be urgent then, yet we have seen nothing. Moreover, many maintaining that work in order to establish replacements warned of the consequences of the Government failing and the ability of the industry to pick up some of the to bring forward airline insolvency plans following the routes that are affected. We will look at and discuss collapse of Monarch. It took Thomas Cook to go bust some of the ongoing challenges relating to those specific before this Government leapt into action, sadly all too airports. late. If they had acted, we could have avoided the scenes The 80/20 rule, as the hon. Gentleman will know, is at airports last night, with passengers and Flybe staff controlled by Airport Coordination Ltd and the European alike stranded. Commission. The European Commission is central to I understand that the Secretary of State is to speak that, as he will understand. with Michael Matheson. What assurances can the Minister My Department and I, specifically, have been having offer Scottish regional passengers? Will she consider these conversations. I am in connection with the industry extending public service obligations to key regional to understand the challenges, and I am taking that flights, which are lifeline services in parts of Scotland? forward to do what I can, in my role as a Minister, to The next few months will be extremely challenging for ease this burden. I stand here willing to speak to anyone the entire travel and holiday sector. What assurances this afternoon and to give people updates as and when I can she give that no more businesses will go to the wall, can. I hope that has given some comfort. as this statement contains merely warm words and no actions? Huw Merriman (Bexhill and Battle) (Con): On behalf of the Transport Committee, I want to express sympathy Kelly Tolhurst: I understand the distress and concern for the passengers inconvenienced and, in particular, in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and region about the staff, who will be devastated and to whom I hope the flights operating out of those airports. We have had better things will come. Airline insolvency reform was some good news: Loganair has already committed to in the Queen’s Speech. I know that the Minister works ensure that 16 of the routes stay in place. We are hard for business, but I want to press her: when will hopeful that we will be able to work with industry to there be an opportunity to introduce legislation, so that pick up some of those routes, and I can assure him that we can help airlines as they either unwind or are able to the Department is determined to backfill those routes recover? and maintain the viability of regional airports. He asked me a number of questions. I am more than happy Kelly Tolhurst: I thank my hon. Friend for his question to speak with him afterwards if he wants to go into and note his particular interest as Chair of the Select detail and to speak with Scottish colleagues about the Committee. He is right that we announced in the Queen’s particular effect on Scotland and the PSO routes. Speech that we would legislate to enhance the Civil Aviation Authority’s oversight of airlines and its ability Several hon. Members rose— to mitigate the impact of failure. I am keen to move that legislation forward as soon as possible, and I am happy Mr Speaker: Order. I am expecting to run this session to give him further updates. until around 12 o’clock.

Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con): Flybe’s headquarters (SNP): First and foremost, this is horrendous news for are based at Exeter airport in my constituency of East the employees of Flybe, who have lost their jobs in an Devon. This is devastating news for Devon and for abrupt, public and distressing manner. Of the 2,000 Flybe regional connectivity in the south-west. Now is the time staff, about 300 were based in Scotland, with 130 of to invest in the south-west, and my colleagues and I will them in my constituency at Glasgow airport. My thoughts be watching the Budget next week with great interest. are with all of them, and my constituency office stands My thoughts are with the people who have lost their ready to assist any local staff affected. jobs as a result of the decision taken by shareholders to walk away despite the support offered by the Government. This is also terrible news for passengers, airports and, Everything should now be done to support those who in particular, regional connectivity. I need not remind have lost their jobs, and I know that the Department for the Minister how important regional connectivity is to Work and Pensions is stepping up as we speak. Will the Scotland. Flybe operated over half the UK’s domestic Minister explain what steps are being taken to secure as capacity outside London—that is a huge gap to fill. many Flybe routes as possible? That said, I am hopeful that some of these routes can be backfilled relatively quickly.I know that Glasgow airport Kelly Tolhurst: I thank my hon. Friend, and I understand has already had productive discussions with airlines, his particular concern about Exeter airport. It truly is and in particular Loganair. sad for employees in his constituency, and just to reiterate, There is no doubt that Flybe management have questions we do stand ready to do what we can for those individuals. to answer; the warning signs have been clear for many We are working very hard in my Department, as we years. While I do not blame the UK Government for have been since the early hours of this morning, with 1001 Flybe 5 MARCH 2020 Flybe 1002 the airlines to make sure that we can fill as many of the Kelly Tolhurst: As the hon. Lady will know, the routes as possible. Those in the airline sector have been decision to put the business into insolvency happened in great in coming together and working with us in a very the early hours of the morning. We have stood ready constructive way to deliver on that. I give him my and worked hard to get a response out, and we have assurances that I will be looking at this in the next days CAA and Government officials at some of the airports and weeks to make sure that we are able to continue our affected to deal with some of these issues. We are connectivity. absolutely clear that Northern Ireland is a key part of connectivity around the United Kingdom. I have spoken Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab): Giving evidence with some Northern Irish colleagues this morning, to the Treasury Committee yesterday, the Governor of and I am very clear that I will continue to work with the Bank of England said that the effect of coronavirus them to find solutions that work for Northern Ireland was likely to be “large”, but “temporary”. Does the in the future. Minister agree that if, at this very difficult time,infrastructure that might have survived without the problems caused Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con): Today by coronavirus is actually allowed to go to the wall by should be a day of celebration in Cornwall, as it is the Government, the effect of coronavirus will not be as St Piran’s Day, but it will be tinged with sadness because temporary as the Governor thought? of the devastating impact this will have on the Cornish economy, particularly so close to the Easter holidays, Kelly Tolhurst: I thank the hon. Lady, but I would which mark the start of the tourism season. The disagree with her: we have not let Flybe go to the Government already recognise the crucial importance wall. However, we are assessing—and, as a responsible of the Newquay to London link, because it is supported Government, we are continuing the preparation for—the by a public sector obligation; will the Minister confirm wider economic impact of coronavirus. It is a moving that that PSO will remain backed by the Government, picture, and as she would imagine, we are keeping and will she work with me, Cornwall Council and the things under close review. The Chancellor has said that industry to find another carrier to pick up this vital if action needs to be taken, he stands ready to do so. We route as urgently as possible? must remember that this was a commercial decision taken by an investor that has been affected by the Kelly Tolhurst: I can confirm that we are determined coronavirus. We understand and are looking at the to ensure that that route continues, and I will of course challenges, and we will continue to work to make sure work with my hon. Friend and Cornwall Council to that the economic prosperity of this country survives. deliver that; we are doing so already, but we will step up efforts. Paul Holmes (Eastleigh) (Con): Eighty-four years ago, the first Spitfire flew from Southampton airport in Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance): Overnight my constituency, on 5 March 1936. The news last night Northern Ireland has essentially lost about 25% of its will be devastating for the 1,500 people who rely on capacity, and there may well be a lag in finding new Southampton airport in my constituency. The Minister carriers, with a knock-on impact for the local economy. will know that 95% of flights at Southampton airport In the Government’s response to the situation and in are provided by Flybe, and that the short runway means formulating a new strategy, will the Minister take into it is unlikely that other carriers will be able to take the account the particular circumstances of Northern Ireland? brunt of replacement services. Will the Minister talk to A one-size-fits-all approach does not work, as we do the Treasury as soon as possible to ensure that the APD not have alternative road and rail links. Also, in terms review concludes as quickly as possible and that local of climate change and APD, there might need to be regional airports can expand if they need to? some special consideration of the Northern Ireland situation. Kelly Tolhurst: I thank my hon. Friend. Regional airports are massively important for the regional Kelly Tolhurst: I completely agree. I absolutely recognise connectivity of the UK, and so is air travel in getting that the situation is different in Northern Ireland, and people around. There are particular issues with the Department and I will work with regional colleagues Southampton airport, as my hon. Friend mentioned, to understand the specific issues relating to Northern given the short runway. The Chancellor was clear about Ireland and make sure that we are able to develop the APD review, and we are clear that we will do the policies that work both for the Northern Irish people regional air connectivity review. I am very passionate and for the economy. about making sure that our regional airports stay viable and open. Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con): This is awful news for Hampshire,and for the great number of our constituents Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab): I was meant to be who are going to face a very uncertain future. There is a domestic flyer with Flybe this morning, but I could obviously not a queue of airlines waiting to pick up the not get a train, and the infrastructure development of regional Flybe routes, and let us be clear that that was cycle links would not have helped either, because I was the case before the covid-19 virus plunged the industry going to Belfast with my hon. Friend the Member for into even further doubt, but the basic truth is that if Rochdale (Tony Lloyd) on business for this place. Northern Flybe had never existed someone would have had to Ireland is uniquely dependent on Flybe. It is disappointing invent it. This model works brilliantly in the United not to have a statement from the Government about States, where regional airlines, often backed by the that. What are they going to do to support the Northern larger carriers, are successful businesses, but Flybe clearly Ireland economy, which will be devastated by this could not make it work this side of the pond. Why does infrastructure decision? the Minister think that is the case, and, realistically, 1003 Flybe 5 MARCH 2020 Flybe 1004

[Steve Brine] especially for services from Scotland, Flybe provided the limited competition that we have at the hub airports what are this Government prepared to do? What can at Heathrow and London City? Those slots will be they do to change that, given the importance the Minister much more difficult to fill. Will she impress on the rightly placed today on regional connectivity and our airport operators that those slots must be kept available manifesto commitments in this area? for regional flights and must not just be snaffled up by the big guys doing long-haul? Kelly Tolhurst: I understand my hon. Friend’s concern regarding the airport in his locality, but, as I have Kelly Tolhurst: I understand the right hon. Gentleman’s outlined, we have been clear about having a review of concerns. As he will appreciate, I have already had regional air connectivity and making sure that we truly conversations this morning with the airlines and my understand the solutions. Once we have done that, we officials, and we will continue to do that in order to can work out ways to move forward. But today is very maintain regional connectivity and those routes. The much about short-term solutions and the reaction to conversations are ongoing, and we will be working the collapse of Flybe. There are many issues, and I am through this over the next few days and into next week. more than happy to discuss them with my hon. Friend and other colleagues after the statement. Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): As the (Con): South-east airports such as Southampton’s have Minister will be aware, one of the partners in this failure a role to play in levelling up because they provide is Stobart, which operates Teesside airport on behalf of connectivity to Belfast, Scotland and all parts of the the Tees Valley Mayor and was contracted to do the job United Kingdom. Does my hon. Friend also recognise because of so-called expertise in the industry. This must that Southampton airport provides a vital link to the be an added anxiety for the Mayor, who has seen losses Channel Islands for those seeking medical treatment increase at the airport under Stobart’s management. He at Southampton General Hospital? Will she undertake said that it is business as usual this morning for flights, to make the airport one of her key priorities, given its despite many of them being dependent on Flybe systems. 95% reliance on Flybe flights, and reassure Hampshire Can the Minister also guarantee that all flights from colleagues that she is absolutely cognisant of the impact Teesside will operate as normal and that there is no of its short runway? cause for concern? Kelly Tolhurst: I note my right hon. Friend’s particular Kelly Tolhurst: The hon. Gentleman will know that concerns about Southampton; a number of colleagues we have a fantastic Mayor in Teesside, and I have had have already addressed some of the challenges there. It discussions with him. One of the things we will be doing is absolutely true that Southampton airport is vital for is making sure that, as I have said today, we are working passengers travelling from the Channel Islands for health really hard within the Department, talking to airlines reasons. I am absolutely committed to making sure that and to the airports to make sure that we are able to I work with colleagues, airlines and airports to solve provide and backfill some of those routes and that the some of the issues following the collapse of Flybe. airports remain as viable as possible. Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con): Obviously Co-op): I share the concerns expressed by my hon. my sympathies go out to the staff affected by the Friend the Member for Bristol South (Karin Smyth) collapse of Flybe, and also the passengers affected in about the lack of attention that the Government seem Banff and Buchan and throughout north-east Scotland, to have paid to routes to Northern Ireland. The Republic because a large number of its flights would have been of Ireland is also involved: Cardiff airport, which will serviced from Aberdeen. I know the Government are be hit badly by this announcement as well, had crucial committed to levelling up regional connectivity across routes to both Belfast and Dublin. the whole United Kingdom, not least from discussions I Will ferry travel be included either in the free travel have had recently with the Secretary of State specifically being offered by the rail companies or in rescue fares? on the loss of other flights between Aberdeen and Obviously, routes to Holyhead, particularly through London: Flybe’s own flight to London City; Loganair’s Pembroke and Fishguard, could also be a way of enabling to Southend, recently; and the easyJet flight to Gatwick passengers to get to their destinations. last year. Can my hon. Friend confirm that she will work closely with the industry, the airports and the Kelly Tolhurst: The hon. Gentleman raises a valid airlines to minimise the disruption caused by the loss of point. As I hope he will appreciate, when I came to the these Flybe routes? Chamber conversations were still going on; we literally Kelly Tolhurst: I understand my hon. Friend’s specific had the agreements on rail and with regard to easyJet concerns, which we have spoken about before. As I have just before I came in. I cannot give the hon. Gentleman tried to describe from the Dispatch Box today, I am a definitive answer, but I assure him that my colleagues very keen to work with the airlines and those airports to and officials at the Department for Transport are working understand the specific issues and challenges that we on those very options to get individuals home. need to address to enable those routes and flights to continue. I look forward to working with my hon. Saqib Bhatti (Meriden) (Con): My constituency is Friend and colleagues. home to Birmingham airport, and the collapse of Flybe is extremely worrying. My thoughts go out to all the Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD): hard-working staff who will be worrying about their Obviously, the regional point-to-point services will be jobs this morning. Will the Minister tell us what measures the priority, but will the Minister bear in mind that, the Department for Transport will be taking to ensure 1005 Flybe 5 MARCH 2020 Flybe 1006 that Flybe staff are fully supported in getting new jobs? Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab): The GMB trade Will the DFT continue to monitor the situation and union estimates that 1,400 supply chain jobs are at risk, encourage other airlines to take them on? as well as the 2,000 Flybe jobs. I welcome the support that the hon. Lady has mentioned from the Department Kelly Tolhurst: I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting for Work and Pensions. Will that be extended to supply the staff and some of the challenges. We are lucky today chain employees, and will lessons be learned from the to have the Under-Secretary of State for Work and problems that some former Thomas Cook employees Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex faced at jobcentres after that collapse? The Flybe overseas (Mims Davies), on the Front Bench. She will roll out the pension scheme is based in the Isle of Man, so members rapid response service for those staff. do not have access to the Pension Protection Fund. Can As I have outlined, Loganair has agreed to prioritise she offer any reassurance to members about the future some of Flybe’s former staff. We will be working really of their pensions? hard with it and the rest of the industry to make sure that we can get those people into new jobs. Some of Kelly Tolhurst: As the right hon. Gentleman will them are highly skilled and have great experience. We appreciate, we are working across Government—across need to make sure that we find them new roles as soon the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial as possible. Strategy and with colleagues in the Department for Work and Pensions—on the response to the collapse of Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP): I thank the Flybe, to make sure that all the issues and troubles, Minister for taking the time to call me this morning and particularly for staff, are addressed and that we are able to extend her thoughts and offer support to all those to respond. I am happy to give him more updates at our affected at Belfast City airport and in the surrounding briefing later in relation to specific, detailed questions areas. She knows that Flybe catered for 67% of all on some of the issues that he raises. We stand ready to passengers who travel through Belfast City airport and make sure that we deliver for individuals who have been 80% of its total network, so this is hugely important. made redundant. We also learned a lot from Thomas I indicated to the Minister this morning that I believe Cook’s collapse, but I remind him that this is not at the that this a huge test for the Government. They have same level as it was with Thomas Cook. been large in their ambition when it comes to commitments on and the importance of regional connectivity, but Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con): Flybe is regrettably the light on detail and delivery. In recognising just how second failure of a UK-based business in this sector in crucial regional connectivity is, will she assure us that just six months. What parallels does my hon. Friend see the Chancellor—through air passenger duty—and other with the collapse of Thomas Cook last September, and Departments will do all they can to make sure that we what lessons have been learned to ensure that the sector have the best conditions to not only support but grow is not affected again in the near future? regional connectivity, which is so crucial to our local economy? Kelly Tolhurst: My hon. Friend will know that we are working hard with the industry and the sector to understand Kelly Tolhurst: The hon. Gentleman knows that I am some of the challenges. It is key to highlight that the personally very interested in and care a lot about the Flybe collapse, in particular, has been reported as being Northern Ireland economy and some of the differences due to the effects of coronavirus, so we are obviously there compared with mainland UK. I reiterate that we seeing the impacts of that. We are not where we wanted are committed to regional connectivity, and I will work to be as a Government—we were working hard to hard on that in this role. We had a manifesto commitment secure Flybe’s future. However, he is absolutely right, to consider the devolution of short-haul APD in Northern and as a responsible Department, we are making sure Ireland. We will work with the restored Northern Ireland that we have those conversations with businesses and Executive to consider any proposals submitted for the are absolutely on board with what is going on. devolution of short-haul APD, and I stand ready to engage with Northern Irish colleagues at any time to Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP): This is take particular issues forward. the second occasion in six months when workers have Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con): As somebody tried to get to their workplace to be told that their who, many moons ago, trained up as an airline pilot, I company has ceased trading. This surely suggests that have a lot of sympathy with former colleagues. The the regional connectivity review is urgent, so can the sector is very much seen as a specialised sector, so will Minister tell us a timetable for the completion of the my hon. Friend work with the Employment Minister—the review? Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies), Kelly Tolhurst: The regional air connectivity review is who I am grateful to see in the Chamber—to address something that I am particularly interested in, and I am the perception of specialisation? Other employers might glad, as the Minister just appointed, that I will be see that as a barrier to entry, as opposed to looking at heavily involved in it. As the hon. Gentleman would people’s transferrable skills. imagine, I am pushing for the review to be done as soon as possible. Kelly Tolhurst: I absolutely agree. My hon. Friend is right about the highly skilled nature of some individuals Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con): For many, who have been working for Flybe. They absolutely have domestic flights are sometimes the only viable option. transferrable skills that can be used in other sectors. We Does the Minister agree that no business should be held will work together closely to make sure that we do all we back by poor transport links, and that we must do more can to recognise that. to build up infrastructure in certain parts of the country? 1007 Flybe 5 MARCH 2020 Flybe 1008

[Brendan Clarke-Smith] 50% of flights from Cardiff airport were operated by Flybe. Scotland and Northern Ireland have powers over Kelly Tolhurst: Absolutely, and that is what this APD, and they may be able to use them to mitigate the Government are committed to delivering on. We are damage. Will the British Government remove their committed to delivering and levelling up all regions of ideological opposition to empowering the Welsh the country, and that includes air, rail and other forms Government with this vital tool? of transport. In the Department for Transport we are determined to do that and to deliver on the Government’s Kelly Tolhurst: I understand the hon. Gentleman’s objectives. question and his concerns. At the moment we do not have any plans to change the APD policy. Our policy is Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op): More as per the Exchequer Secretary’s response to the Welsh than half the flights out of Wales, particularly from Affairs Committee report in September 2019: Cardiff, are Flybe, and the Minister will know that “The UK Government has carefully considered the evidence Flybe was reliant on domestic flights but also on European gathered by the Welsh Affairs Committee and your final report, flights and therefore, like Thomas Cook, was badly hit alongside reports commissioned by the Welsh Government and by Brexit. Is the Minister evaluating companies that are Bristol Airport.” facing Brexit weakness and then coronavirus? What is she doing about that? More generally, what are the Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the Minister Government doing about that? for her response. It is always important to hear her words and direction. In Northern Ireland the significance Kelly Tolhurst: The answer to the hon. Gentleman’s of Belfast City airport is greater than that of other point is that we are working with industry and speaking airports as my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East to industry to understand the challenges that are faced, (Gavin Robinson) has said. There has been some indication particularly by airlines and more generally, with the that other airlines may be prepared to fill those gaps. Is advent of coronavirus. We seek to understand the issues there any indication whether that will happen? The UK relating to the UK as well as the impact on the global is the only major European nation to see a decline in airline trade, which obviously will also affect the UK. direct connectivity in each of the past two years and, That work is ongoing and we will continue to work to given the sad news today, surely the Government must make sure that we have a good understanding and take take urgent action to reduce APD at all levels. action that is appropriate in order to maintain what we can. Kelly Tolhurst: We will work as closely as we can with the airports and airlines serving Northern Ireland so Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): that we can maintain that connectivity,because connectivity Staff and suppliers will be devastated by the collapse of between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK is Flybe. Regional economies and cultural activities will important. The Chancellor has made a commitment to also be severely impacted, especially in the absence of review APD, and I have already outlined our manifesto decent cross-country rail links, as in the north-east. commitment to deliver on short-haul APD in Northern This weekend, Newcastle United fans were due to fly to Ireland. Southampton for the premiership match. Newcastle United fans have enough to deal with, with exploitative BILL PRESENTED ownership, without having to make rip-off last-minute travel plans, so what will she do to ensure that they get IMMIGRATION AND SOCIAL SECURITY CO-ORDINATION to the match, and to support Newcastle—the airport, (EU WITHDRAWAL)BILL that is, not the team? Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57) Kelly Tolhurst: I support the airport, but I do not Secretary Priti Patel, supported by the Prime Minister, support football much. But Newcastle is a great team. the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Secretary Thérèse The hon. Lady raises a key point. As I have outlined, we Coffey, Secretary Brandon Lewis, Justin Tomlinson and are working with transport providers to make sure that Kevin Foster, presented a Bill to make provision to end people who planned to use Flybe are able to travel. I rights to free movement of persons under retained EU will take that forward as a specific action. I thank the law and to repeal other retained EU law relating to hon. Lady. immigration; to confer power to modify retained direct EU legislation relating to social security co-ordination; Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) and for connected purposes. (PC): As the hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Davies) mentioned, last night’s announcement will have Monday 9 March, and to be printed (Bill 104) with a significant effect on Welsh connectivity. More than explanatory notes (Bill 104-EN). 1009 5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1010

International Women’s Day from Silicon Valley to the mobile phone in your pocket. Another example is Katharine McCormick, a committed 12 pm feminist who singlehandedly financed the contraceptive pill when the US Government refused to invest in its The Minister for Women and Equalities (Elizabeth research. Truss): I beg to move, That this House has considered International Women’s Day. Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab): I This year’s theme is “each for equal”, which speaks to wholly support the Secretary of State’s celebration of the vision that I have as Minister for Women and the work of Ada Lovelace, but does she recognise that Equalities. I believe in the dignity and autonomy of the the work of women such as Ada Lovelace and Katherine individual, and in giving everyone an equal opportunity Johnson, who worked on the US space programme, was to live the life that they choose. People should not be not known and celebrated? Does the Secretary of State defined by their gender, or, come to that, by their race, recognise that it is important that we celebrate the work their age, or where they come from. So on International of women, particularly in the fields of science, technology, Women’s Day this Sunday, we can enjoy and celebrate engineering and maths, where they have made a great being women, but we should not be defined or limited contribution and yet have not been celebrated? by it. It strikes me that this year’s “each for equal” theme is Elizabeth Truss: The hon. Lady is absolutely right, very much like the Government’s central mission: to and I am sure that she enjoyed the recent film “Hidden level up, to deliver opportunity, and to unleash the Figures”, which celebrated some of those workers—the potential of everyone across our United Kingdom. fantastic female mathematicians who contributed at “Each for equal” and levelling up mean pushing back NASA. I know that she, like me, enjoys Lego, and will against the cult of female exceptionalism—the idea that celebrate the new women scientist Lego sets. She is women are more trustworthy or empathetic, or make absolutely right, and we need to give girls and women betterbosses—andpushingbackagainstthelazystereotypes the message about the great achievements and inventions of male exceptionalism—the idea that men are more of women that unfortunately have not been celebrated decisive, stronger, or better leaders. as much as they should have. The Government’s role is to remove the barriers for Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): On celebrating women, so that it is their talent, ideas and character that women’s achievements, does my right hon. Friend share matter and not anything else, and so that, in the words my concern that around the country, we have too few of the brilliant Taylor Swift in her new song, “women sculptures and statues of women? I am proud that aren’t left running as fast as they can, wondering if Basingstoke has recognised Jane Austen by having the they’d get there quicker if they were a man”. The rights first ever sculpture made of her and put in the centre of and safety of women are of the utmost importance to our town. Should not more constituencies and Members the Government. of Parliament do something similar? Like many others throughout the House, I am anticipating the moment when the hon. Member for Elizabeth Truss: My right hon. Friend is completely Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) will read out the correct. In fact, I also recently saw the film “Emma.”, names of all the women killed by male partners since which is based on my favourite Jane Austen novel. She the last International Women’s Day. I commend the is right that we need more statues of women. Of course, hon. Lady—as well as others outside the House, such as we recently unveiled the Nancy Astor statue in Plymouth. Karen Ingala Smith of the Counting Dead Women We should have more statues of women in our public project—for the heartbreaking reminder that there remain places, and we should celebrate the great women who so many women to commemorate in this way. With that have helped to make our country what it is. in mind, I am particularly pleased that the Government introduced the Domestic Abuse Bill this week, to tackle Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ an injustice that still blights the lives of far too many Co-op): I completely agree with the right hon. Member people, and that this year we have committed £100 million for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller). Is the Secretary of State of funding to combat violence against women, including aware of the scheme to erect a statue for Betty Campbell, £20 million directed specifically at domestic abuse. the first black female headteacher in south Wales—a Free enterprise gives people power over their own remarkable figure from Butetown in my constituency? money, their own ideas and their own lives, and I believe She made an incredibly impact not only on young that it has been a particularly liberating force for women. people locally, but on the wider community. I join with Between 1990 and 2015, the number of people living in all those fighting for more women to be recognised in extreme poverty globally fell by more than 1 billion, this way around the country. and most of those were women. That is the magnificent achievement of free markets and free trade, and it is Elizabeth Truss: I very much commend the work the through that opportunity and empowerment that women hon. Member is doing on that; it is fantastic. have pioneered the wonderful technological innovations and ideas that improve our lives. Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): As it is International One example is Ada Lovelace, whose picture hangs in Women’s Day, I was running through in my mind who the Pillared Room at No. 10 Downing Street. Empowered my most inspirational woman was. It has to be my by a good education and independent finances, Lovelace, mother, of course; probably everyone in this House a mathematician, conceived of the first computers,sparking would say it was theirs. She is coming up to 89 years of an ideas chain reaction via Bletchley Park which led to age, and is still a person who is very much to the fore. innovations that shape our modern world, everywhere Does the Minister not agree that perhaps the most 1011 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1012

[Jim Shannon] daughter to be the person that she is, but does my right hon. Friend agree that it is equally important that we inspirational women are those who have lived a life of empower our boys to be feminists and to agree that we duty and service, and of honour and devotion to their are all equal? My daughter plays football and cricket, community, and that we should shine a light on our and my son plays football and cricket. He has always Queen, perhaps the most extraordinary woman of our been taught that girls are equally as good, if not better, generation, as an example of what we should aspire to? at those sports.

Elizabeth Truss: The hon. Gentleman makes a very Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. good point. Women have contributed to our national Rigid stereotypes about what girls should do and what life in all kinds of ways. Their achievements are not yet boys should do also hold boys back. They do not give fully recognised, and we should do more on that. them the opportunities they might want in traditionally Before we had tributes to these great women, I was female professions, for example, and they do not allow talking about the contraceptive pill, an incredibly important them to express themselves in ways that can be helpful innovation by a woman, in the face of opposition, and empowering and make their lives better. This is the which has transformed the ability of women to prevent point that I was making at the start of my remarks. Of unwanted pregnancy, enter the workplace, and escape course I am proud to be a woman; I love being a traditional gender roles. As Trade Secretary, I have the woman. I have two daughters, and I encourage them to privilege of seeing how women continue to seize the celebrate being female, with all the great benefits and opportunities of freedom, kicking open doors that life experiences that that brings. At the same time, however, previously only men have walked through. In this job, I they should not in any way feel that that defines them or have met women at the top of their game—brilliant places on them any expectations about the way in which entrepreneurs setting up their own businesses, leaders of they live their lives. Equality for everyone—everyone our country’s largest and most successful FTSE 300 being free from those preconceptions—is good for our companies, and of course our country’s world-class society. It unleashes ideas and opportunities that will female diplomats across the globe. We now have women benefit us all. heading our missions in the United States and China, I want to talk about my recent experience at the and we are making huge progress. African investment summit that we held here in London. I met a group of fantastic entrepreneurs called the Laura Farris (Newbury) (Con): I first got involved Lionesses. They were from sub-Saharan Africa, where with International Women’s Day in 2015, when I was they are leading the way with the highest rate of women asked to speak at an event; I had not heard of it before. entrepreneurs on the planet. They were a fantastic That has prompted me to think about where we were group of women. I do not think it is a coincidence that then with women in public life, and where we are now. women are achieving so much in business. Free enterprise In 2015, there were 148 women in this House and and free trade do not care about someone’s gender or 104 women in the two Houses of Congress, and a sexuality, or the colour of their skin. The first female woman was poised to secure the Democrat nomination Prime Minister, Margaret Thatcher, once said that in the race for the White House—well, that one did “a widget remains a widget—and it will be bought anywhere if not work out; but fast forward to today, and there are the price and quality are right. The market is a more powerful and 220 women in Parliament, which is a 49% increase in more reliable liberating force than government can ever be.” five years. That is why we are so keen as a Government to champion female entrepreneurs,to champion opportunities Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab): You’re for women in business and to champion women in the welcome. workplace. We need to ensure that everyone can enter, get back into, and get on in the workplace. I am proud Laura Farris: I thought I might get that. There are that under this Government the employment rate for 127 women in the two Houses of Congress, which is women has reached a record high of 72.4%. Almost a 23% increase, and we have had a second woman Prime 2 million more women are in work since 2010. When I Minister. Sometimes the pace towards gender equality talk to women across our country, they are not interested is glacial, but in the last five years, it has been considerable, in identity politics. They are interested in how they, and that is something to celebrate this International their families and their communities can get on in life. Women’s Day. That is why we as a Government are focused on tackling the barriers that hold people back and on levelling up Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend makes a good point. our country. We have seen a huge culture change through things like We are investing in our railways, roads and broadband the #MeToo movement. We have also seen a real to bring opportunities to every home and business. We recognition of the issues and challenges that women have doubled the free childcare available in England to face, and they are being dealt with. This Government eligible working parents of three and four-year-olds to are very committed to dealing with those challenges. 30 hours per week. We are supporting families across the UK through tax-free childcare, and we have established Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) a new £1 billion fund to create more high quality, (Con): I should like to back up what my right hon. affordable childcare. We will extend entitlement to leave Friend, and my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury for unpaid carers, the majority of whom are women, to (Laura Farris), have said. I was the leader of Westminster one week. This is the real substance of our national Council, and my predecessor and my successor are both programme, which is inclusive to everybody. Its aim is women, which is amazing. As the mother of two teenagers, to unite, to level up and to bring together every region a daughter and a son, I am obviously empowering my and nation of our country. 1013 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1014

As well as tackling these policy challenges, we recognise We are celebrating the achievements of women today. that ingrained assumptions pose barriers that make it This does not mean being defined by being a woman, harder for people to fulfil their potential. I vividly favouring women over men or being pigeonholed by remember, as a 12-year-old girl, getting on a flight with outdated stereotypes. It is about defending the rights of KLM. My brothers were presented with junior pilot adults to make choices, to be free to live the lives they badges, but I was presented with a junior air hostess choose and to flourish on their own terms.The Government badge. That was a revelatory moment for me. I did not are proud of the steps we are taking to advance the like being told what job I was able to do because I was a potential of women, both in levelling up opportunities girl. I do not believe that any girl or boy should be here in the UK in areas such as housing, transport and encouraged to pursue a career or study a course because childcare, and in our efforts to extend those opportunities of their gender, yet between the ages of seven and 11, across the world in areas such as education. boys are almost twice as likely as girls to want to be scientists and four times more likely than girls to want Mrs Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): Does to be engineers. This is linked to a significant lack of my right hon. Friend agree that if girls are to have academic attainment for women in science, technology, 12 years of education throughout the world, including engineering and mathematics, and to their severe in this country, we should not allow them to marry underrepresentation in related fields. That is why this under the age of 18, because that limits what they can Governmenthavechampionedmathsandscience,benefiting do? That applies in this country, not just abroad. We girls and boys alike. There has been a 31% increase in should be stopping it in this country too. girls’ entries to STEM A-levels in England since 2010, and the number of women in the UK accepted on to full-time STEM undergraduate courses increased by Elizabeth Truss: My hon. Friend makes a good point 34% between 2010 and 2019. about the damage of early marriage—it is particularly We recognise that championing women’s rights cannot early in some countries, which I think is appalling. Of stop at our borders, and the Government are also course, we will need to have that discussion as a Parliament taking steps to empower women internationally. I find it and as a Government, but I know that she is a strong appalling that child marriages, female genital mutilation advocate for that. and the denial of access to a quality education still blight We are surrounded by proof that everyone, no matter our world, keeping women down and damaging the their sex, is capable of great things, and that advancing countries they live in. This is depriving us all of the equality benefits us all. I encourage everyone here to ideas that they could pioneer, the vital jobs that they celebrate the incredible things that women have done, could be doing and the dreams that they could be and to truly recognise the intrinsic equality of men and pursuing. women. Together, let us fight for that brighter future of The Government recognise that women can contribute opportunity and aspiration, where the personal fulfilment, positively to the modern world just as much as men. freedom, dignity and liberty of each individual, women That is why we continue to support targeted development and men alike, are respected and defended. programmes to ensure that all girls, right around the world, receive 12 years of quality education. I strongly agree with the Prime Minister,who speaks so passionately 12.20 pm on this subject, that all girls must be allowed to achieve their potential, whether they were born in London, Dawn Butler (Brent Central) (Lab): I want to thank Lagos, Lima or Lahore. The world must stop wilfully the Government for making time available for this neglecting the enormous benefits that accrue for everyone debate—looking at the Minister, I am glad that I did when girls are given an education and job. not wear my pink jacket today; that would have been a We are driving progress towards ending all forms of little awkward. violence against women and girls internationally,including It is important for so many reasons to have this sexual violence in conflict, and we are promoting women’s debate on the Floor of the House. We will mark and sexual and reproductive health and rights and supporting honour the important contributions that women make, their economic and political empowerment. We are also not only in this place but across society. It also gives us a hosting a conference—chaired by a former Member of dedicated opportunity in this Chamber to illustrate the this House, Nick Herbert—that will ensure that LGBT structural barriers that still exist for women, and to people across the world are safe and free to live the lives reflect on the deaths of the women who have been killed they wish, including lesbians and bisexual women and since the last International Women’s Day debate, with the specific challenges that they face. the names compiled by Karen Ingala Smith and read by Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Lab): Before the Minister moves back to the domestic (Jess Phillips). sphere, I want to ask her what her Government are I would also like to thank Mr Speaker for continuing doing on the international front to protect women a tradition that I started when I first became shadow human rights activists around the world. They are Minister for Women and Equalities, by ensuring that standing up for the human rights of the people they the International Women’s Day flag is raised across the represent, but they also face discrimination because of parliamentary estate—it will be raised on Sunday and their gender. Monday to mark International Women’s Day 2020. Elizabeth Truss: The hon. Lady makes a good point The theme for this year’s International Women’s Day about female human rights activists, and I will certainly is “Each for Equal”. An equal world is an enabled take it away to ensure that we are doing all we can, in world. It is about recognising that collectively we can conjunction with the Foreign Office. help to create a more equitable world. We need diverse 1015 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1016

[Dawn Butler] adopting some of our policies, as they have done previously—I do not mind; they are welcome to them. voices and lived experiences around every decision-making They should start by enacting section 14 of the Equality table. That is not only good for society; it is also proven Act 2010, so that people can bring forward cases on to be good for business. multiple grounds of discrimination. Women are more I acknowledge that we have seen progress here in than just one-dimensional, and it is about time that the Parliament, as has been mentioned. At the 2019 general law caught up so that we can be recognised for all our election a record number of women were elected to this intersectionalities. House. Women now make up 34% of MPs, up from How about reinstating section 40 of the Equality 32% in 2017. I am particularly proud that the Labour Act, to protect against third-party harassment? We have party increased its proportion of women, meaning that had this debate over and over again. It is time that was women MPs now outnumber male MPs in our party. done. Section 106 would mean that all political parties One of the legacies of my right hon. Friend the Member would have to publish diversity data about their electoral for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) will be that the candidates. These simple steps would make a great parliamentary Labour Party is now 51% women—which change in the fight for gender equality. Women deserve mirrors society—the shadow Cabinet is 50% women, better pay,increased flexibility and strengthened protections and the most recent intake was a whopping 77% women. against harassment and discrimination. Women deserve For too long politics has been the preserve of a equal pay and equitable recognition. particular wealthy group in society—the old boys’ club. Labour not winning the election was tragic for so I am pleased that is slowly beginning to change. We in many reasons. With a Labour Government there would this place have a duty to lead the way. A good start have been a chance to deliver real change. Over 85% of would be to have a stand-alone women and equalities the burden of the Tory-Lib Dem cuts has fallen on the Department, with a full-time Secretary of State. That shoulders of women. A Labour Government would way, we would not have to wait a year to have a have begun to undo the damage and tackle the injustice dedicated debate. to women. In power, we would have required employers New analysis published this week by the UN reveals to devise and implement plans to eradicate the gender that across the world close to 90% of men and women pay gap and pay inequalities. With proper enforcement hold some sort of bias against women, which provides mechanisms, there would have been no place for large new insights into the invisible structural barriers that employers to hide gender inequality in their organisations. women face in trying to achieve fairness. That matches Labour would have created extra protections for pregnant recent research done here in the UK by the Fawcett women, those going through the menopause and terminally Society, which found that positions of power across ill workers. public life and the economy are still dominated by men. Labour would have ended zero-hours contracts and At 21%, only a fifth of senior civil servants participating strengthened the law, giving all workers the right to in the civil service board are women. At 35%, just over a flexible working from day one. The Labour party would third of permanent secretaries are women, and there have extended statutory maternity pay from nine to are no women of colour in these roles; black, Asian and 12 months, and doubled paternity leave from two to minority ethnic women are concentrated in the lower four weeks, and we would have increased statutory ranked roles. paternity pay. The 1950s women would have received The Government’s race disparity audit has shown compensation for the injustice they have suffered. that we need to address the structural barriers that are Unfortunately, Labour is not in government, but what limiting progress. In the judiciary, women make up we can do at every opportunity is demand more from around a quarter of those in senior positions, but the this Government. proportion falls to 17% in the Supreme Court. In the If Parliament is closed because of coronavirus, that business sector, women make up just over one in 20 CEOs should not be an excuse for the Government to close of FTSE 100 companies. Again, none of those CEOs is down. We will expect daily Zoom calls, at the very least, a woman of colour. by Ministers and the Prime Minister, to address publicly Yesterday we saw new analysis published by the TUC the people’s priorities, so that they can be acted upon. I showing that women work for free for two months each hope that the Government will start to listen to people. year as a result of the gender pay gap. Fifty years since I hope that they will have the courage to provide for the Equal Pay Act 1970, that is still the lived reality. It women in a fair way. shows that gender pay gap reporting needs to go much The upcoming Budget provides an ideal opportunity further than simply publishing; we need compulsory to address the imbalance and finally give the necessary action plans for what companies will actively do to resources. I hope the Treasury will publish meaningful close the gap. The Fawcett Society’s research shows that equality impact assessments, which have been lacking eight in 10 men and women support women being able year after year, and I hope we will finally see the right to find out whether they are paid less than a man for level of investment in vital social infrastructure, without equal work. It is time to give all women the right to which we will never make sufficient progress for women. know.Disabled women continue to face the most significant We must not stop until we eradicate the structural pay gaps of all; higher than those faced by disabled men inequalities in society and the violence against women and non-disabled women. Employers must take and girls. Thankfully, the Government brought back intersectionality seriously when tackling their gender the Domestic Abuse Bill earlier this week, and I pay pay gaps. tribute to all the campaigners who fought tirelessly to The Labour party wants a workplace revolution to make sure that happened. I welcome the Bill, which bring about a step change in how women are treated at includes a new legal obligation on councils to provide work. The Government could start that process by secure refuges for victims. That is progress, but we need 1017 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1018 to be certain that refuges have secure long-term funding. myself with no Committee to which to apply for time The Government have cut funding, and we have seen for this debate, so I appreciate the efforts of my right the closure of specialist services, which has affected the hon. Friend to find this time today. I extend my thanks life chances of very vulnerable women. to the hon. Members for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield) I also want to see better protection for children. and for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips), who joined Although we have seen a shift in how sexual violence me in advocating for having this debate at the right time. and harassment are discussed following the #MeToo It is also a pleasure to follow the shadow Minister, the movement, we urgently need to consider the experiences hon. Member for Brent Central (Dawn Butler). She of black, Asian and minority ethnic women and girls. spoke about intersectionality, and my first contribution That is why the Bill needs to be amended to recognise in any public forum as, at that time, Chair-elect of the BAME women and migrant women. Women and Equalities Committee was at a meeting I hosted an event here in Parliament yesterday at hosted by the Fawcett Society on how discrimination which Imkaan launched its new report, “Reclaiming against women is exacerbated for women from a black Voice: Minoritised Women and Sexual Violence.” It is or minority ethnic background and for women with a the first report of this nature in the UK, and it specifically disability. The one point the hon. Lady did not mention focuses on survivors of sexual violence and BAME is that discrimination is also exacerbated by age. Older women’s experience of sexual violence. We must look at women are, of course, among the most invisible in the evidence in this report, and I will happily provide society. the Minister with a copy. As well as the report’s findings, We will hear many powerful contributions to this we must listen to the voices of all women and groups debate, perhaps particularly from the hon. Member for and make sure that we do not leave any group behind. Birmingham, Yardley. She will again make a powerful, Violence against women and girls is unacceptable, as moving and, frankly, horrific contribution. Each year, is how women are treated in the criminal justice system. on International Women’s Day, we reflect again on The number of women in prison has more than doubled those women who have been a victim of their partner’s since 1993. There are around 2,400 more women in violence during the previous 12 months. It is appalling, prison today than in 1993, which is disturbing. We and I want the numbers to go down. I want there to be a know women account for a disproportionate number of year when she can stand and celebrate International self-harm incidents in prison, despite making up only Women’s Day without a single name to read out. We are 5% of the total prison population. Almost 60% of not there yet. Indeed, we are a long way from it, and women in custody or supervised in the community have perhaps we will never get there, but we have to keep experienced domestic violence. That figure is too high, moving forward with important measures like the Domestic and we need to do more to address it. As a former Abuse Bill, which we must pass in this Parliament. magistrate, I have seen the failures of the justice system I remember being in the Chamber when the Bill was towards vulnerable women, and it needs to be looked at. debated last year, and I remember the frustration that a Last year, the UK fell six places in the global rankings general election came along and the Bill did not make of gender equality. It is simply not acceptable that we progress. We have no excuses this time. dropped from being the 15th most equal nation in the world to the 21st. I want to be up there with the likes of Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab): I congratulate Iceland, Norway and Finland. It is time the Government the right hon. Lady on her speech. She is right to woke up, fixed up and took on board some of the highlight the appalling incidence of domestic abuse still progressive agenda of those countries. disproportionately suffered by women. Does she agree This year,on International Women’sDay,let us celebrate that that underlies much of women’s offending behaviour? and unite, let us support each other and let us elevate Will she join me in asking the Government to clearly and empower all women. No more excuses, no more link their domestic abuse strategy with their female reports, let us get equality done. The time for audits, offender strategy so that women who end up in the reviews, roundtables and gender pay gaps is over. What penal system as a result of having been a victim of we need now is action. We cannot wait another 50 years abuse have their needs properly addressed in the criminal to see progress. Let us make 2020 the year that we have justice system? the vision to deliver for all women. I end with a quote from Sojourner Truth, the most Caroline Nokes: The hon. Lady is, of course, right to powerful advocate for human rights in the 19th century: point out the link between domestic abuse and women too often ending up in the penal system. I am somewhat “If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to surprised and disappointed that the hon. Member for be able to turn it back, and get it right side up again! And now St Albans (Daisy Cooper) is not here, because she has they is asking to do it, the men better let them.” frequently raised with me the issue of women in the I say that the men better watch out. justice system and what more we have to do to assist them and to avoid them ending up there in the first place. 12.34 pm This debate is a chance to look backwards as well as Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) forwards, and to consider whether the previous 12 months (Con): It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to speak have been good for women. I have supported, promoted in this debate. and, indeed, celebrated measures in this House but, as I also thank the Leader of the House for granting Charles Dickens might have said, they have been the Government time for this debate. We are, of course, in best of times and the worst of times. It is odd for quite interesting times. This debate is normally granted somebody from Southampton to quote a man from by the Backbench Business Committee, but I found Portsmouth—those who are not from the south coast 1019 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1020

[Caroline Nokes] it was this time last year. Perhaps when the Whip—my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield)— will not understand what I mean—but it accurately responds, she will be able to give us an assurance that sums up the progress we have made and the setbacks my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State is absolutely there have been. committed to closing the gender pay gap. In this place, I vividly remember when the Domestic Abuse Bill we have done better— was first introduced, when we heard the fantastic, powerful and horrendous contribution from the hon. Member Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab): for Canterbury.I also remember the powerful contribution I absolutely agree with everything that the right hon. from my hon. Friend the Member for Wyre Forest Lady is saying in her speech, and I congratulate her on (Mark Garnier)—I was sitting directly behind him, and becoming Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee. it will forever be seared in my mind—about Natalie Will she meet me so that we can plot together to use the Connolly and the horrendous defence we see used forthcoming employment Bill as an opportunity to increasingly often in domestic abuse and murder trials bring in new tougher laws to narrow the gender pay that rough sex is something women victims enjoy. There gap? Although in law it is illegal, the yawning pay gap should be no place for such a defence. persists. We can use that Bill to toughen up the law. Last year we did see the introduction of stalking Shall we work together on that? protection orders, which are designed to protect the victims of stalking, the vast majority of whom are Caroline Nokes: I believe the right hon. and learned women. The crime survey for England and Wales estimates Lady, the Mother of the House, is working on a number that 4.9 million adults in England and Wales have of issues on which she and I would find common experienced stalking or harassment in their lifetime, ground. I am always delighted to meet her to work out and women are twice as likely to experience stalking, how we can continue to do better. The Women and with mixed-race women and those aged 20 to 24 at Equalities Committee has only met for the first time greatest risk. this week, but it has a number of priorities it wishes to The law was changed last year so that upskirting look at. One of my contentions was that the gender pay offenders can be arrested and sent to prison. Some of us gap should be a recurrent issue that we revisit annually, felt that legislation was unduly delayed, and, of course, giving Ministers the opportunity to come before the there were some interesting lingerie-led protests. Committee to explain to us how the Government have My right hon. Friend the former Member for Richmond been making progress, or perhaps otherwise, on closing Park, now a noble lord, secured a strengthening of the that yawning gap. law on female genital mutilation. I know my right hon. As I was saying, in this place we have done better. Friend the Prime Minister cares deeply about the issue, The Secretary of State and the shadow Minister both and I am pleased to hear the Minister for Women and mentioned that there are now more women MPs than Equalities mention it today. As Immigration Minister, I ever before; 34% of all MPs are women, and that is a worked hard to keep out of this country people who great deal better than the situation was in 2010 when I advocated FGM. I was appalled when I heard the arrived. I recall that when I joined the House, my right deployment of the phrase, “It is only a little bit of hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) cutting.” No, it is child abuse, it is illegal and there pointed out to me that when she came in here in 2005 should be no place in this country for people who are there had been only 17 Conservative women MPs. There the proponents of FGM. was a massive jump in 2010. From last year’s election, Outside the world of politics, we saw last October the this Parliament did do better, but on this side of the first all-female spacewalk, and last month Christina House we are still a long way short of 50%. I cannot Koch returned from the longest single spaceflight by a help but mourn the departure of people such as Amber woman. She spent 328 days in space, an incredible Rudd, Claire Perry O’Neill, Caroline Spelman, Baroness period, and she is one of those fabulous role models Morgan, Justine Greening, Anne Milton, Margot James, that we have for young women everywhere. Dina Asher- Sarah Newton and Seema Kennedy, many of whom Smith, in Doha, scooped silver in the 100 metres, gold came in at the same election as me in 2010. But I am in the 200 metres and silver in the relay, becoming the delighted to see new Members here, and I know that in first Brit to win three medals at a major championship, time they will rise to the dizzy heights that those female Simone Biles continued being one of the greatest women colleagues whom I mentioned rose to. I know that they athletes ever, racking up medal after medal at the world will come to love this place, be promoted and contribute gymnastics championships in Stuttgart, and Jade Jones a great deal. added her first world taekwondo title to her double I believe I am correct in saying that across all Government Olympic gold. Of course there are those who cannot payroll positions we are now just shy of 50:50. But—and bear to watch female athletes and make offensive it is a big but—has that percentage been reached by comparisons. To them I say that I would like to see them putting women on to the first rung, the unpaid payroll? compete with Sarah Storey, who achieved her 35th world If so, what on earth has that done to the gender pay gap para-cycling title. in government, when 73% of the Cabinet are men and On pay, there have been some triumphs, although I 45% of Parliamentary Private Secretary positions are would argue that they are not wins—they are merely filled by women who are not paid. So I think we have fairness. Samira Ahmed won her case against the BBC some things to celebrate and some that I simply cannot. in January this year, but we all know there is a long way I am saddened that the men in grey suits went after a to go. Gender pay gap reporting has shone a light on woman Prime Minister—again. I am genuinely saddened disparity, but we know that some Departments have that the Labour party looks unlikely to elect a woman gone backwards and the disparity is greater today than leader—again—although I am the first to acknowledge 1021 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1022 that polls can be wrong. I wish every female candidate woman who demanded that there should be no tribute left in that race luck, and indeed those who are in the to her when she died. Her grave is in the same village contest to become deputy leader. Having mentioned a as I live in and it does not even have her name on it—it string of Conservative colleagues who have left this has her initials only. I look forward to going in a few House in the past 12 months, I should say that I also months’ time to the unveiling of a stained glass window miss Luciana Berger, Ruth Smeeth and Angela Smith, in Romsey abbey, which was deliberately moved away to name just a very few. In this place, there has always from the church in which she is buried but absolutely been, and I hope there always will be, solidarity and reflects the importance she had as a woman, as a sisterhood across the House. Some of the best advice I scientist and, given the way she worked with government, ever received in this place came from Joan Ruddock, as a politician—this was someone born 200 years ago. way back in 2010, when I was a newbie and she was Although the Women and Equalities Committee met something of a grande dame of the Labour party. I in this Parliament for the first time yesterday, so it is still refer to her as a grande dame as a term of affection, very fresh, there was no shortage of ideas. There was although I note that Quentin Letts now refers to me as a also a commitment to conclude in this Parliament some grande dame and I am not sure it is meant to be of the work started by the predecessor Committee in complimentary at all. the last Parliament and curtailed because of the December What we have certainly seen over the past year is an election. We will in turn form our own priorities and set intensification of the harassment, bullying and torment our own agenda, but some of that will be to return to of female politicians on social media. One of my local the gender pay gap to benchmark progress. There is a papers, the Andover Advertiser, asked me this week to serious job to do in scrutinising the performance of provide some commentary ahead of International Women’s Government against their own objectives, and we will Day, and I found myself speaking of resilience. There do that with determination and commitment. are days when I hate the fact that I have to be as tough as I am. I always describe myself as having the hide of a 12.49 pm rhinoceros, which is sometimes useful when dealing with constituents, particularly the ones who think it is Anne McLaughlin (Glasgow North East) (SNP): Amuna okay to email me to tell me that I am a “tiresome anga andig wiririria usiku watha. I know it is unlikely underachieving woman”. I am sure they think they are anyone here understands what I said—if they do, I hope getting somewhere with their comments, but I always they will not tell everybody I pronounced it incorrectly prefer to laugh at them, envisaging a chap of a certain —but I will come back to it at the end and explain why I age, undoubtedly as red in the face as he is in the said it. trousers, as he bangs his keyboard with venom. I joke, The 8th of March is International Women’s Day. I but it is not a laughing matter, and I know that I get off hope you will forgive me, Madam Deputy Speaker, but extremely lightly compared with the right hon. Member it is also my birthday. for Hackney North and Stoke Newington (Ms Abbott). For those new to the House, let me say that the “mute” and “block” buttons are your friends, and that by being Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): My hon. here you achieve more every single day than your fiercest Friend is an international woman. keyboard warrior critic ever will. Anne McLaughlin: I am an international woman. On press commentary, it was only last week that we had the celebration of 100 years of women journalists For many years, I had my niece and nephew believing in the Press Gallery. Miss Marguerite Cody was the first that the day was named in honour of me. They were woman ever to report from Parliament, but today there wide-eyed at the celebrations the world over—all for are still too few women who look down on us from the me. At the same time, I regularly adjusted my age for press seats. The faces we see are still predominantly them, so it was a bit of a running joke that I could not male, some not in the first flush of youth, and for good face up to reaching the upper stages of my youth. It all reporting we need diverse reporting, even when we came unstuck for me in 2011, when the world marked might find the commentary uncomfortable. I have no 100 years of International Women’s Day. They found doubt that women do ask the toughest questions but it amusing to discover that I was around more than also the fair ones. I use as an example the fact that no 100 years ago. woman journalist has ever asked me what my dad There are some lessons in there somewhere, and one thinks. of them is about age. As we celebrate women, let us I turn to the role I now hold as Chair of the Women celebrate all women and note those who often face and Equalities Committee—what a great position and barriers in addition to those presented by their gender. opportunity. My predecessor, my right hon. Friend the That might be for any number of reasons: race, disability, Member for Basingstoke, steered the Committee through gender identity, sexual orientation, income and, yes, its first five years, and I am very conscious that I have a age. Age International reports that nearly a quarter of difficult pair of shoes to fill. I suspect, however, that the world’s women are over the age of 50, yet they are with size 8 feet I can more than manage it. She rightly routinely excluded from policy and practice that aims to mentioned the lack of statues of inspirational women in address gender inequality and violence against women, our country. There is no shortage of women role models, including sexual violence. but there is a shortage of tributes to them through the We, and I include myself in this, also need to stop arts and through culture. It is brilliant that in her talking about age as if it were a bad thing—it is clearly constituency we now have a statue of Jane Austen, but I better than any other alternative. We talk as if women, am struck by the fact that my constituency was the in particular, are past it once they reach a certain home of Florence Nightingale. She was a very modest age—a certain age I have yet to reach, obviously. While 1023 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1024

[Anne McLaughlin] refused. No matter how much she encouraged me, and no matter how she tried to persuade me, I told her it was we are talking about age, let us not forget the regular not for me. exclusion of young women from the policy-making I believed that the thing holding me back was me and process. my lack of ability, but I was not lacking in ability, and it International Women’s Day is not just about looking was Nicola Sturgeon who opened my eyes to that. We at barriers and inequality. As we have heard, it is also were talking about gender balance mechanisms, and I about celebrating successes and the barriers that have said what I have heard many women say: “I would only been overcome. However, until we have true equality in ever want to get somewhere on merit.” She said, “Well, every walk of life and in every sense of the word, we that’s fine—if all the men you see elected are there on have to keep talking about why we do not have equal merit alone too. Until they are, we need these gender opportunities in this life. So today I want to do three balance mechanisms.” That got me thinking, and it set things. I want to read out a roll-call of just some of the me on a path where I ended up spending the last two women who inspire me. I also want to talk about some years working in different countries, mainly trying to fundamental barriers facing women and how our male get more women into politics. I made that argument allies can help break them down, and I will end by about merit, and I could see other women’s eyes opening. asking two things of the Government. That will allow I also used something else Nicola pointed out to me me to explain why I started off speaking in a different that day: ask a man to tell you three things he is really language. good at, and he will. He is quite right to do that, On the roll-call, I sometimes think we have our because you have asked him to do it, but if we ask a famous women we pay tribute to, and then we have our woman to do the same, most women—of course, I am so-called ordinary women. I am just going to mix them generalising, but I think we can use general points up and read a list of women who inspire me. Some are here—will start by telling us what they are not good at, constituents, but they are by no means the only woman and I could list many more than three. in my constituency who inspire me—I would need the entire debate to mention them all. The women are Mary Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): The Seacole, Helen Carroll, Marie Curie, Winnie Ewing, hon. Lady is making a very powerful argument. One Mags Watson, Gemma Coyle, Rosa Parks, Mary Hunter, thing we should be doing is giving women the licence to Marie Stopes, Janet Connor, Harriet Tubman, Laura try, fail and come back to something. So many of us Clark, Bessie Watson, Josephine McCusker, Catherine will not put our names forward; we are afraid of failing. Yuill, Tracy Pender, Donna Henderson and, finally—I We are told that if we fail once, that is it. All of us need am going to say something about the last one—Chief to be fairer on ourselves and fairer on each other to Theresa Kachindamoto, also known in Malawi as the encourage people to come forward. marriage terminator. She became the chief of over 900,000 people and immediately dissolved the child Anne McLaughlin: I absolutely agree. I was just going marriages of 3,000 girls. I like the name “the marriage on to say that even when we cajole some women and terminator”. I want those on the list who are still with say, “Come on, just tell me something you’re good at,” us to know that they inspire me. If they do not know they will say things like, “Well, my friends think I am why, I will tell them when I see them. quite good at—” It is very difficult to get things out of The second thing I want to talk about is the fundamental them. barriers facing women. I want to say a bit about how I It is all to do with conditioning. Boys are brought up, came rather late in life to understand the barriers that on the whole, to be ambitious, bold and confident and I face because of my gender, in the hope that it will help to expect to be important in life. Girls are brought up to others who want to understand. I am not going to talk look after everyone else, including those important about children and childcare. It is an obvious, although men, to be the peacemakers and to look pretty. How necessary, matter to refer to, but it sometimes allows many times, when we meet a little girl, is the first thing people to simplify the issue. It allows those who regularly we say to her that she looks really pretty? How many ask, “When’s International Men’s Day?” to argue that times do we say to a little boy how clever he is? Clearly women who have full childcare or who have no children that girl will grow up judging herself on how she looks are barrier-free, and that is just not the case. I do not or how she does not look, and the boy will focus on have children, so I cannot say that childcare duties being clever and running the world. prevent me from doing some of the things I want to do, I am not talking just about parents, although they but for my entire life I have experienced the fundamental obviously have an influence. I was brought up by two barriers that almost all women experience—I just did parents who regularly drummed into me that I was as not know that that is what it was. good as anyone else—no better, no worse, but as good Many of my peers were elected long before I ever was. as. I was encouraged by them to conquer the world, but I thought that that was because they were better, that I not by the society I grew up in. The influences around would not be that good anyway and that politics was us, such as the media, teachers and other people involved not for the likes of me. I also did not like the combative in a child’s life, can be really powerful, so I was really and competitive nature of party politics, so if there was impressed to read that the Scottish Government last an internal battle for selection, I just refused to put month held the first meeting of a taskforce to tackle myself forward. I remember my friend Shona Robison, gender stereotyping in the classroom. We need a lot who went on to be the Cabinet Secretary for Health and more of that. Sport in the Scottish Government, phoning me and The other thing we women need is our male allies. I saying, “It’s the first Scottish Parliament, Anne. We am happy to say that there are many in here. There are need more women. Whydon’tyou stand?”I just point-blank many on the SNP Benches, and many in my own life. I 1025 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1026 want to make one suggestion about how men in politics changed the entire dynamic and had I not found ways can be our allies on a practical level, but before I do, I to work around it, it would have defeated the purpose of want to go back to the issue of conditioning and to my being there at all. acknowledge that not all the conditioning that boys I think it would be helpful to say how it changed the receive is positive. One area where girls and women fare dynamic. When I was trying to establish what holds better is talking about emotions. We are allowed to do women MPs back from engaging with the media, I that, but boys and men are not. When I talk about asked a number of questions. One was, “Hands up if conditioning, it is not to suggest that we get it right with you ever feel that what you have to say to a journalist is boys either. probably not that important after all.” Not one woman What can our male allies do to support women in put her hand up, but I knew from speaking to them politics? I did quite a bit of work last year in the privately that most of them did experience that self-doubt; Gambia to support political parties to get more women, they just did not want to talk about it in a roomful of among other groups, involved in politics. Almost every confident men. Some men put their hands up, but it was female political activist told me she needed training in to tell me how vitally important their stories were to the public speaking, but I spotted something far more media. Therefore, they gave me the opposite of what I fundamental, which I have spotted in other countries, was asking. As I have said, I found ways around that including our own. Many of the women were not even and one was to say, “May I take the first three responses speaking in the small roundtable party meetings; from women, please?” That works in a larger setting. It those who did regularly had their sentences finished for is something that I have seen male allies do. In the more them, and they accepted that. I am not singling out the intimate setting of a round-table meeting, I ask men to Gambia, because mansplaining is a worldwide please just remember that a woman who is saying phenomenon, as we all know. I realised that I had work nothing is not doing so because she has nothing to say. to do with the women on how to make their voices Finally, I conclude with two asks of the Government. heard on a more fundamental level. I also recognised I spent recess in Malawi. As an aside, just because so that I had work to do with the men. It is like all forms of many women have mentioned this, let me say that I unconscious bias: most people do not intend to practise went on a constituency visit with an MP, and her MP bias. Most men would likely be horrified if they discovered colleague gave the most passionate speech to hundreds that they were creating barriers. of people about why they should retain her—there is a campaign called “Retain Her Malawi”. I thought that it The one thing that men can do is to look at their was really nice that these two women in the same party behaviour in meetings. They need to recognise that just were supporting each other. But they were not in the because a woman says nothing or little in a meeting same party at all—it was the equivalent of my going does not mean that she has nothing or little to say. It is along to a constituency in Scotland with a Conservative simply that we often communicate differently. We are or a Labour MP, saying that they must vote for her next also often surrounded by very confident men who have time. It was really interesting to watch the way that the a lot to say, and that is absolutely acceptable, but our women in that caucus supported each other. voice inside starts to tell us to doubt the validity of what we were going to say. Women MPs may hide it well, but Members will see that I have a piece of cloth wrapped we are not immune to this behaviour. For example, right around me. It was given to me by Linga, Oxfam’s now, my pages are covered with notes saying, “Cut, if Malawi director. I was in Malawi, as I have said, for the they are bored.” “Cut, if they are bored.” And, “Cut, if women’s caucus conference for all 44 women MPs in they are bored.” I had assumed that people would be Malawi—23% of its Parliament is now made up by bored and that I would have been talking for too long. women. The conference was organised by Oxfam and Perhaps I am, but I am going to force myself not to cut supported by the Westminster Foundation for Democracy. my speech, if that is alright with you, Madam Deputy The cloth is printed with the words, “Take action, say Speaker—yes, it looks like it is okay. no to violence against women.” A lot of good work is going on in Malawi, much of it funded by both the I am not just talking about women MPs; I am talking Scottish and the UK Governments, so that is fantastic. about people who come into Parliament for meetings with us. I am talking about our party members. I am Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/ talking about support staff. I have lost count of the Co-op): I thank the hon. Lady for giving way. She is number of times that I have left a meeting and been speaking passionately about Malawi. I have also visited approached by a woman who did not speak a single Malawi and spent time with women’s organisations word and who starts talking to me on a one-to-one doing fantastic work. If she has been in Malawi, she basis and giving me some really important and interesting will know the impact that HIV/AIDS has had. AIDS information. Therefore, one thing that our male allies, is still the leading cause of death for women between and also other women, can do is invite individuals to 15 and 49 worldwide. UNAIDS has released a report speak and not allow their sentences to be finished for today highlighting the gendered nature of HIV/AIDS them. for women. Does she agree that we need to do all we can I did some training with women MPs—they were, in through our aid budget to tackle that? fact, Deputy Speakers—in Nepal this time last year. I was there to help them get media coverage, because the Anne McLaughlin: I could not possibly disagree with male MPs were getting it all. I turned up at the conference that. Yes, I absolutely do agree with that. There was a hall and it was half full of men. They had heard about lot of talk about how the country will tackle HIV/AIDS. the training—this is the male MPs—and they felt put There is a big focus, funded largely by ourselves, on out that they had been excluded. The women felt sorry ending violence against women and girls. My ask of the for them and invited them to join the session, but it Government is: what has happened to the Istanbul 1027 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1028

[Anne McLaughlin] perhaps because they are also LGBT, or because they may be disabled—but this does not take away the convention? Many will remember former SNP MP importance of having this opportunity to celebrate Dr Eilidh Whiteford, who served in this House for women and girls, their contribution and the challenges many years. Her private Member’s Bill was passed by that they still face, both here and across the globe. this House, yet here we are almost three years later and My hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip nothing has been done. This week the Domestic Abuse Davies) has demonstrated that International Men’s Day Bill was reintroduced, but, I think I am right in saying, provides a great opportunity for men to talk about the without provisions for ratification. Why is that? What is issues that they face. I hope that the respect for this the delay? particular event, International Women’s Day, and the I started my speech with these words: Amuna anga debate around it is seen for the opportunity that it andig wiririria usiku watha. I was attempting to speak is—to debate the achievements of women. And celebrate in Chichewa, one of the official languages of Malawi. them we should. My right hon. Friend the Member for The point that I am making is that I have a lot of Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), constituents, mainly women, who cannot speak English, the new Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee or if they can, it is limited, and when people are in —on which I congratulate her—is absolutely right that distress, it becomes even more limited. If I were a we should celebrate. We should celebrate the record Member of the Scottish Parliament, I could pick up the numbers of women in work, the record numbers of phone to the Scottish Parliament interpretation service, women in Parliament, and now the record number of put my constituent on the phone and someone would women who are graduating from our universities with establish what language they were speaking and an the best degrees. More women than men are actually interpreter would be made available. Westminster offers now graduating with science-based degrees, which is no such service that I know of. Often, the issues are showing some progress, the foundations of which were Home Office-related. That is further complicated by the sown very early on in 2010 when the Conservative fact that the Home Office point-blank refuses to Government was first formed. Some of that real progress communicate with Members of the Scottish Parliament. is due to the very hard work of hon. and right hon. If anyone needs that service, it is MPs. Right now, if I Members sitting in the Chamber today. need interpretation, I fall back on the fantastic national But many of the women who we are inspired by as organisation, Saheliya, led by another inspirational woman, constituency Members of Parliament do not sit on Alison Davis, but that service is by appointment only. these green Benches and do not fill the history books; May I appeal to the Minister and the Government, to they are women who do extraordinary things day in, look at setting up that initial telephone service so that day out to make our communities better places in which people—mainly women, often women in danger—can to live. I would like to give the House three examples access support from their Member of Parliament in the from my part of Hampshire. Diane Taylor, the mayor of same way that any other women can expect to? Basingstoke, is an extraordinary woman of compassion and of support for our community.Catherine Waters-Clark 1.6 pm set up the fantastic local charity Inspero and has taken Mrs Maria Miller (Basingstoke) (Con): It is a great it to being an award-winning charity in a handful of pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Glasgow North years.And most of all—I think other Hampshire Members East (Anne McLaughlin) with her passion and her may agree with me on this—I pay tribute to Olivia verve and her ability to speak Malawian—if that indeed Pinkney, who is our chief constable in Hampshire and is is the language that they speak in Malawi. one of a very small number of female chief constables I wish to start my contribution by thanking the in the whole country. On a day like this, we should Leader of the House, who has done something very remember those inspiring women, who have pushed the important today. He has allowed us to hold this debate barriers, gone that extra mile and made our communities in Government time. I hope that that is a trend for the even better places in which to live. future, because, while I have huge respect for the Backbench Let me touch on the role of Parliament. As a legislative Business Committee and the work that it does, this body, we have a duty to scrutinise the effectiveness of debate should be held in Government time as it shows a Government policy to ensure, as the Minister said in recognition of, and a respect for, the importance of the her opening statement, that everybody has the opportunity things that come out of this debate. to live the life they choose—that people are carried by I look forward to International Women’s Day every their ideas, character and talent, and not held back by year, but I would like to share with the House that this is their gender. Of course, she is entirely right. It is right not only for the opportunity to celebrate the achievements that we now have a Select Committee to scrutinise those of women, but because as well as being the birthday of policies formally every week of the year, but International the hon. Member for Glasgow North-East, it is the Women’s Day gives us another channel of scrutiny and birthday of my youngest child, James. Year after year, another way in which to throw a sharp light on the that has caused enormous conflict in my household. issues that women need us to address. This year, he is now 18 and an adult. I hope that The number of events in Parliament has grown Members and others can forgive me for not supporting organically every year that I have been here, and this the rally on Sunday, as I will be taking him out for a year there has been an opportunity to take part in some slap-up meal and perhaps a pint of beer to celebrate the extraordinary events, including a fantastic exhibition fact that he is now a fully-fledged adult. in the Upper Waiting Hall called “Motherworks”, When we celebrate International Women’s Day, it is masterminded by Fiona Freund and showcasing the important to acknowledge that many young men, and dazzling capabilities of working mums. With the all-party older ones too, struggle with discrimination—ageism, parliamentary group on women, peace and security, I 1029 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1030 have been able to meet incredible women on the frontline third element that I really want the Government to of fighting for women’s rights in countries such as Syria think about in this respect—unsurprisingly, just a few and Nigeria. I have been privileged to be able to launch days after the conviction of Harvey Weinstein—is that Birmingham University business school’s fathers in the women are still today suffering sexual harassment at workplace toolkit—because if we do not get it right for work, only to see it covered up through the use of dads, we will never get it right for mums—and last night pay-offs and non-disclosure agreements to exit them to have been at the launch of Plan International UK’s from their workplace, leaving the offending individuals call for action for young women living in conflict areas. in place to continue to abuse others. This is not right Does Parliament actually have an opportunity to do and it has to change. Women trust us to get it right, and a bit more? There is a strong argument that the parts at the moment we are not. We need to make all jobs that make up International Women’s Week, as I think it flexible by default unless there are business reasons not has become, would be stronger if we tried to knit them to do so; to adopt the same protections that are in place together to demonstrate this Parliament’s significant in Germany for pregnant mums and new mums to stop commitment to International Women’s Day. Perhaps women being forced out of work when they are pregnant; we could bring events together in a more coherent and to outlaw the use of non-disclosure agreements to programme, and—as we are now no longer members cover up allegations of sexual harassment. of the EU—use it as an opportunity to be keep in The jailing of Harvey Weinstein does not solve the close contact with some of our colleagues across our problem. We have to change the way in which our neighbouring European countries. We have inspiring employment tribunal systems work for the better in women in Parliament, in business, in medicine and in order to remove the disincentives to bring forward teaching, and International Women’sDay is an opportunity strong cases in the first place. We also have to stop for us, as a body, to play our part in showcasing their NDAs being used to cover up allegations of sexual talents in order to inspire the next generation. I hope harassment or discrimination, to put in place standard that, as parliamentary colleagues, we might think about confidentiality clauses and to strengthen corporate how we can make this event an even more significant governance. Members of the Select Committee in the part of the parliamentary diary. We could continue to last Parliament will remember the importance of insisting support the excellent work of 50:50 Parliament, as I on the reporting up of sexual harassment cases to know many of us do, and we could involve more young board level, in order to ensure that those leading our people—and perhaps some old people as well—in thinking companies and institutions are aware of what is going about being a Member of Parliament as part of their on. I just remind colleagues of the excellent publications life work. that the Select Committee has already produced; those So where does the challenge really lie? Today—indeed, reports are evidence-based, and the Government should this week—is all about celebrating women, but it is also be able to get some good ideas from them. about being honest about the challenges still faced. I In short, we need to reshape jobs and the workplace agree with the Minister that there should be intrinsic because most jobs and most workplaces are still shaped equity for men and women, but there is not because of around a model that has existed for hundreds of years the attitudes and culture that still prevail in this country and that too often did not fit women; and as a result, it and across the globe. It is important that the Government is not working for women. I am mindful of the time, so recognise that, because it is the reality of women’s lives. will briefly mention the other two areas that I wanted to The Minister’s vision is inspiring, but the reality can cover, the first of which is digital abuse. sometimes be less so. One of the strengths of having a Women and Equalities Committee is the work that we I wholeheartedly applaud the Government’s real are now able to do to amass the evidence and see what commitment to online reform, and the online harms needs to be acted on. I will focus the remainder of my White Paper was a real step in the right direction, but comments on three specific challenges that I passionately now we need to see the legislation. Yes, it is important feel need addressing. to put in place a duty of care on digital platforms, but The first challenge is that although we may have the legislation also needs to consider sexual abuse images. record numbers of women in work, too many still do At the moment, we have a patchwork of legislation in not reach their full potential. As a country facing challenges areas such as upskirting and revenge pornography. We with our productivity levels, we have to take that very need legislation that can stand the test of time and does seriously indeed. I welcome the Government’scommitment not need updating every time a digital platform finds a to improving childcare—the 30 hours of free childcare new way of abusing women through the use of sexual for three and four-year-olds, and the commitment to images. Deepfake is a very current example, and of more investment in wraparound care, are hugely course the issue of anonymity cannot be neglected important—but there are three elements that we have to either. fix if we are going to enable women really to reach their Last, but by no means least, I turn to Parliament full potential at work as we need them to do. itself. Back in 2016, when we took evidence in the Select First, there is a lack of quality flexible working, Committee from party leaders about their aspirations despite the Government’s policy to encourage businesses for the role of women in Parliament, I was heartened in that area. Secondly, we need to tackle the fact that that all the party leaders agreed that the House of women are being discriminated against simply because Commons would be a better place if we had as many they are pregnant or new mums. Many hundreds of women here as men. We have a duty to make this place women are being put in a position where they feel they the best legislative body it can be, yet still only one in need to leave their work simply because they are pregnant, three parliamentarians is female—and, yes, the problem and that situation has actually worsened over the last lies with the Conservative party.We have record numbers 10 years, according to the Government’s figures. The of women MPs. I applaud the Labour party for achieving 1031 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1032

[Mrs Maria Miller] Zoe Orton, Beatrice Yankson, Levi Ogden, and Tsegereda Gebremariam—who lived on the next street to the 51% female MPs. Now we really have to examine things street that I live on. I saw the sirens and heard their roar, on the Conservative Benches as to how we can achieve a and knew I would have to read out her name. I go on: similar situation. Nicola Stevenson, Mandeep Singh, Alison McBlaine, How confident are we that Parliament is as appealing Katy Sprague, Saskia Jones, Lindsay de Feliz, Marion a workplace as it can be to women? How can we make Price, Jolanta Jakubowska, Kayleigh Dunning, Nelly sure that it becomes a more appealing workplace for Myers, Angela Tarver, Amy Appleton, Sandra Seagrove, women? These are the issues that we need to think Vivienne Bryan, Stacey Cooper,Helen Almey,Magdalena about and have to tackle. Retaining Members of Pacult, Katherine Bevan, Kelly Price, Beverley Denahy, Parliament—this applies to all parliamentary parties—is Gian Kaur Bhandal, Margaret Grant, Kymberli Sweeney, something we are failing to do at the moment. At the Mary Haley, Cherith Van Der Ploeg, Ann Mowbray, last general election, all parties lost good women who Debbie Zurick, Li Qing Wang, and Janice Woolford. decided that this was not a place where they could work Since Karen Ingala Smith, the woman who counts and balance their caring responsibilities. That should these women, sent me this list last Thursday, two further concern us all deeply. It is a problem for MPs to solve, women had to be added this morning: Katrina Fletcher not for those on the Treasury Bench to solve. It is our and Bhavini Pravin. responsibility. With that in mind, it is crucial that this, Also on the list are five women who were murdered as a place of work, works for everybody. I am delighted alongside their friend, husband or partner: Tatiana to be a member of the new Administration Committee, Koudriavtsev, Layla Arezo, Jasbir Kaur, Premm Monti, and I look forward to seeing how some of these issues and Frances Murray. I separate them from the main list, can be addressed through the work of that Committee. which Karen had not done when she sent it to me, The Government have an ambitious policy to eliminate because in almost all of those cases, aside from one, the gender pay gap—to level up our country, giving both the woman and her partner were murdered by everybody the opportunity to be the best they can be, their son. I often rise in this debate to talk about violent regardless of background. I was born in a council house partner domestic abuse, and the vast majority of the and went to my local comprehensive school in south names that I read out will have been that exact thing, Wales, and I am proud to be the 265th woman ever to be but one thing that is very rarely tackled is children’s elected to this place. The Government are right in their abuse of their parents. When I worked at Women’s Aid, ambition to level up. That levelling up goes for women, I saw the horror of a woman dealing with an adolescent too, both in work and in this place, to give everybody son who was abusing her and beating her. You cannot the opportunity to live the life they choose based on go to a refuge to get away from your child—it is their talents, ideas and characters, and not to be held up impossible. We must do much more in policy to deal or held back simply because they are a woman. with that. I could not read that list without Karen Ingala Smith 1.22 pm and all those at The Femicide Census. She never allows us to look away from the reality of male violence Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab): As has towards women. In reading the list, and thinking about been trailed in a number of other speeches, I rise, like I having to say the same thing every year, I cannot help rise every year, to read the names of the women who but reflect that had these women all been murdered in have been murdered by men since this time last year. I terrorist incidents, had these women all died of coronavirus, am afraid to say that the statistics released recently or had these women all died—as I have heard my right show that this is, unfortunately, not a number that goes hon. Friend the Member for Normanton, Pontefract down but in fact a number that is going up. and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) say many times—at So I shall start: Julie Webb, Tracey Lovell, Libby sports events over the year, there would be a huge Squire, Antoinette Donnegan, Dorothy Bowyer,Laureline inquiry. Had these all been terrorist deaths, the Garcia-Bertaux, Giselle Marimon-Herrera, Allison Government—not just this Government, but any Marimon-Herrera, Lala Kamara, Alice Morrow, Rachel Government—would stop at nothing to enact policy Evans, Alison McKenzie, Janette Dunbavand, Barbara quickly and effectively. Cobra meetings would be held if Heywood, Paula Meadows, Anna Reed, Sarah Fuller, this many people had died of coronavirus, even in that Megan Newton, Leah Fray, Saima Riaz, Sammy-Lee space of time. A far greater response is made to almost Lodwig, Amy Parsons, Mihrican Mustafa, Henriett every other epidemic than the epidemic of male violence Szucs, Emma Faulds, Lauren Griffiths, Ellie Gould, against women. Joanne Hamer, Mavis Long, Julia Rawson, Jayde Hall, For every woman who has sat in front of me and has Elizabeth McShane, Linda Treeby, Regen Tierney, Paige suffered this over the years, I can say that it leaves most Gibson, Neomi Smith, Safie Xheta, Valerie Richardson, of them feeling literally as if they are worth less—their Lucy Rushton, Kelly Fauvrelle, Joanna Thompson, Ligita livesareworthless.Women’sbodies—women’slives—matter Kostiajeviene, Lesley Pearson, Carol Milne, Doreen less, and the epidemic of violence against them is never Virgo, Diane Dyer, Kayleigh Hanks, Kelly-Anne Case, considered to be a pattern or a disease in our country or Dorothy Woolmer,Natalie Crichlow,Belinda Rose, Pamela around the world that requires the same will as other Mellor, Linda Vilika, Lindsay Birbeck, Michelle Pearson, issues. I recognise that the Government have brought Rebecca Simpson, Alice Farquharson, Laura Rakstelyte, forward the Domestic Abuse Bill, and we are all pleased Sandra Samuels, Marlene McCabe, Lana Nemceva, to see it back, but until we start hearing that list as if it Bethany Fields, Serafima Mashaka, Vera Hudson, Keeley were a list in another circumstance and acting with the Bunker,Emily Goodman, Cristina Ortiz-Lozano, Margaret same level of horror, knowing that we would gain the Robertson, Arlene Williams, Sarah Hassell, Fatima same political benefit from dealing with it as we would Burathoki, Lesley Spearing, Niyat Berhane Teklemariam, were it terrorism, we will never get anywhere. 1033 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1034

Mrs Latham: The hon. Lady is making a powerful training to be a pilot and working with Airbus at the speech, as she does every year. She mentioned Helen moment. Those two young women were inspirational to Almey. My son went to school with her. If we know one the audience of 12,000 young people between the age of of these people, it brings home to us that they are not nine or 10 and 17. statistics; they are real people. It is a very powerful thing Derbyshire is touched by some amazing women, not that she does every year, and I congratulate her on it. least Severn Trent chief executive Liv Garfield. The Jess Phillips: I thank the hon. Lady. Throughout the Severn Trent water authority goes through the whole of year, me and Karen often meet people who have been Derbyshire. Severn Trent is now on the London stock personally affected by one of the names on the list, and exchange. It is one of the FTSE 100, and is led by this that is why we keep doing it—because these women are amazing woman who goes at 1 million miles an hour. It not statistics. They are the friends of our children. They does not matter what you ask her about her company, are our children. They are the woman who lived down she can answer it. She is a pioneer, and there are many the road from me, who I will have walked past a million other women in the FTSE 100, but not enough. We times. I hope that the list reminds people how serious need more women to get up to the top. this is and that, on pretty much every street and in every In Derby we have a lot of this country’s rail industry, classroom, there will be somebody who is quietly suffering, which is predominantly a male bastion. There is a who might one day end up on the list. company in Derby called Resonate, led by Anna Ince, who is a pioneer running an organisation that combines 1.32 pm technology and transport to optimise traffic management Mrs Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con): I am solutions. That sounds terribly boring, but she can going to mention a lot of women, and most people in transform the way that our rail works and provide this room will not have a clue who they are, but they are other logistical travel solutions. She has taken that important women in my life, my constituency and my company from being a fairly average company to a community, and I make no apology for mentioning really impressive one. them. Porterbrook, which specialises in the leasing of trains, I will start by challenging my right hon. Friend the is run by a woman called Mary Grant. She is fantastic, Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline because she has come along after a series of men, and Nokes). I know that Florence Nightingale is buried in she is changing that industry. There is Elaine Clark, Romsey, but she spent most of her time—apart from who is the CEO of the Rail Forum Midlands. She is when she was nursing in the Crimea—living in Derbyshire. doing incredibly well in leading a series of 200 companies This year, we are celebrating 200 years since her birth. I in the rail industry, which is male-dominated. Helen think she would congratulate the current Government Simpson and Chandra Morbey are directors of innovation on their policy on washing hands, because she was at Porterbrook, and they are the brains behind the really keen on cleanliness in the Crimea and the other HydroFLEX, which is the UK’s first hydrogen-powered places she served in. She would recognise that that is train. Again, those are women in a very male-dominated probably the best thing we can do against the coronavirus. industry. First and foremost, I want to celebrate Florence Nightingale. Another male-dominated industry is printing, and We have a statue of her in Derby, and there is a lot of yet we have Amanda Strong of Mercia Image, who has controversy about whether it will be moved. moved that printing company forward so far and is an Another important person in Derby and Derbyshire incredibly successful chief executive. She does a lot of is Alice Wheeldon, a suffragette who was imprisoned charity work alongside that—she is not just using it to wrongly in 1917 because it was claimed that she plotted make a lot of money; she is using some of the money to kill the then Prime Minister, and there is a big for charity. campaign to get that overturned. Recently we celebrated Nancy Astor—who has no connections with Derbyshire, In Derby, we have a university that was very poor but as far as I know—making her maiden speech 100 years is coming on in leaps and bounds. It had men running it ago, which was very important in the progression of for a long time, but it now has a very dynamic woman, this country. It is important that the women in this Kath Mitchell, who is taking it much higher, much place today celebrate those women, of whatever party, faster than we have ever moved before. We also have who were first in their field, because they are trailblazers Derby College, which goes from GCSEs to hair and for the rest of us. beauty and land-based courses, including looking after wallabies and meerkats, tarantulas and other spiders, Yesterday I was lucky to go to WE Day, which is one and snakes and all sorts of things in order to train day a year run by a charity, following a whole year of veterinary nurses in how to handle unusual animals. social action for children. Weheard inspirational speakers Mandie Stravino—again, a woman after many men—has at Wembley arena, and two in particular resonated with moved that college forward so far. I have to congratulate many of the young people there. One was a trainee those two women in education, who are brilliant. doctor—a girl who is almost deaf and almost blind. Everybody said that she could not get on to a course to In Derby, we also have the first female bishop. She become a doctor. Well, she has, and she continues to did not start in Derby as the first female bishop, but she train as a doctor. She will have tremendous empathy has moved to run the Derby bishopric. She is amazing, with disabled patients and a lot of sympathy for the and again, she is changing the dynamics. She has a lot people she will be treating. It is brilliant that she has got of women supporting her, including the suffragan bishop, on that course. the Bishop of Repton, Jan McFarlane—again, a woman. The other speaker was a Syrian refugee, who was told We are finding that many women in Derbyshire are that because of her accent and because she was a coming to the top of their profession and leading from refugee, she could not achieve virtually anything. She is the front, including as high sheriffs. At the moment, we 1035 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1036

[Mrs Pauline Latham] are out there that we see in our everyday lives—with charities, in business or whatever they are. We see an have Lord Burlington, who is a very good high sheriff, amazing number of different jobs that are never suggested but before him we had Lucy Palmer, the late Annie at school, but Poppy has fantastic opportunities for Hall— sadly, she drowned in the floods last year—and where she is going to go when she has finished school. Liz Fothergill, who has gone on to develop the Derby Whether she goes to university, does an apprenticeship book festival, which had not happened before. These or whatever she chooses to do, the world is her oyster. people are inspirational leaders within the Derbyshire For Betty, who is only five, her opportunities, even community. after Poppy has started work, will be completely different Another amazing woman is Dionne Reid, who runs again. There will be many more opportunities that we Women’s Work, which is trying to help prostitutes get probably do not even know about at this stage. I look another life so that they do not have to be prostitutes forward to what they can achieve in their lifetimes, and any more. At the end of the day, prostitutes are victims, to the opportunities that all girls now in school can look and we need to give them another opportunity in life so out for, take up, grasp and run with to become leaders that they can get out of that job and get a different kind in their field. I believe that young people now have such of job that will be more fulfilling. fantastic opportunities, and it is up to us to make I have something of a beef with Derby because the sure that as many people as possible know what those gender pay gap there is very wide. It is much worse in opportunities are for young girls. However, let us not Derby than in the rest of the country. I think it is about forget the boys, because they are very important. They 31%, which is terrible. I would say to Derby businesses, are very important in my life—I have three grandsons—and “Listen, we’ve got some brilliant businesses and some I want them to have fantastic opportunities as well. amazing leaders, but we’ve got to do better. Get on your Those opportunities are out there, and I think young bikes and do better for the women in Derby!” For the people should go out and grasp them. women coming through to the top, we have to make sure that they have equality. Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton): It I have talked before in the Chamber about some very is a great pleasure to call Apsana Begum to make her inspirational women who have undertaken fantastic maiden speech. schemes, such as Jacci Woodcock who is running the “Dying to Work” campaign, having been diagnosed 1.46 pm with secondary breast cancer. She is unwell now, but she is still working hard to try to get as many companies as Apsana Begum (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab): Thank possible to sign the voluntary charter for women who you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for calling me to make have been given a terminal diagnosis and want to carry my maiden speech in this important debate. I would like on working—not everybody does but some do, and to start by paying tribute to my predecessor,Jim Fitzpatrick, some have to in order to pay the bills—so that they are for his hard work and for the longevity of his public not defined by their illness, but are seen as people, service. Jim was a firefighter before he was elected to because such people are very often defined by the Parliament and such is his legacy that, when I arrived at particular illness they have. Westminster, one of the Clerks here mentioned to me There is Siobhan Fennell, who is running Accessible that he had lent his expertise in fire safety to this Belper. She is in a wheelchair, and she can only drive it House’s restoration and renewal plans. I suppose you with her head now, but she is an inspirational person. could say, “Once a firefighter, always a firefighter”. I She goes out and does training for businesses, councillors wish him well in his retirement. and all sorts of people to get them to recognise that My other east end predecessors include Labour party accessibility is not just about wheelchair accessibility, giants such as George Lansbury.As we debate International but about how those in a shop should deal with someone Women’s Day, the origins of which are rooted in working- with autism or dementia. There is also Fliss Goldsmith, class history—it honours the 1908 garment workers’ who is another volunteer. She has two very active young strike in America—I want to pay tribute to the rich children, and she has several illnesses of her own and history of women’s struggles for social justice in my has had multiple operations. However, she is still highly constituency, Poplar and Limehouse. Given that George active in the arts scene, which is very important in Lansbury resigned to stand for re-election on a “Votes Belper, where many other people are working to make it for Women” platform, I like to think he would have a much more dynamic town. approved. I am very lucky in that I have five grandchildren, and I hail from the great east end, where there is a proud two of them are girls. The choices that they will have or working class tradition and history of standing up for that they have—Poppy is 16 this year, and she is doing our rights; where low-paid women workers have so her GCSEs—are much greater than when Nancy Astor often been at the forefront of developing trade unionism; made her first speech in this place. I hope that the and where Sylvia Pankhurst and the East London girls in my family and in everybody’s family have such Federation of Suffragettes were explicit in their socialism, opportunities, as well as the boys. As the Minister said advocating a self-organised movement and demanding earlier, it is important that boys can also do things that much more than just charity: they demanded political are not just traditional boys’ jobs; we need to make sure rights. This is summed up in the first issue of the East that anybody can do any job whatsoever. I believe that, LondonFederationof Suffragettesnewspaper,TheWoman’s even in the last 25 years, the opportunities for girls have Dreadnought, published on International Women’s Day changed dramatically and they will continue to change. in 1914, which stated: Poppy has got fantastic opportunities, but the trouble “Some people say that the lives of working women are too hard with being at school is that children do not know about and their education too small for them to become a powerful voice all the opportunities that are out there and the jobs that in winning the vote. Such people have forgotten their history.” 1037 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1038

But we are not such people in Poplar and Limehouse. guidance and inspiration with me in everything that I We remember women such as Minnie Lansbury, who do. Likewise, the support I have received from the was elected to Poplar Council in 1921 and was jailed, people of Poplar and Limehouse, where I am proud to along with five other women, for refusing to charge full have been born and raised, and the trust they have put rates for her poorest constituents. We remember the role in me to be their MP, is truly humbling. I feel the weight of women in the battle of Cable Street, where the local of responsibility and duty on my shoulders, and I will Jewish community, along with so many others, stood up fight with all my breath and energy to carry on the to Oswald Mosley and his fascists. And we honour the legacy of those who have gone before me, opposing at women who took command during the second world every step of the way the broken, failed economics that war air raids, sending for the fire and rescue services have served only to enrich the few at the expense of the and seeing about people being clothed and fed. many,and which far too often have left so many constituents From the late 1960s onwards, racism was so prevalent to bear the brunt of the brutality of austerity. locally that Asian and black people were frequently While Poplar and Limehouse is an amazing place to attacked and women were often unable to walk the live, it is on the frontline of the Conservative austerity streets for fear of their safety.Alliances between different attack. Local government and the vital public services communities and anti-racist organisations were built in they provide have been undermined by these cuts that resistance. By the 1980s, there were at least two Bengali have hit the poorest hardest, leading to the loss of key women’s groups in Tower Hamlets, offering women services. I am angry that we have one of the highest social, religious and cultural activities that were instrumental rates of child poverty in the country while being on the in encouraging Bangladeshi women to take an active doorstep of one of the largest financial centres in the role in the area. world. It is simply unacceptable that the diverse needs After a British National party councillor was elected of our children are not being met. I am angry that on the Isle of Dogs, a coalition of women from diverse around a fifth of the residents in my constituency are backgrounds formed a group, Women Unite Against paid less than the living wage. I am angry that we Racism, as part of the wider anti-racist and anti-fascist struggle with a housing crisis and the near-impossible campaign that drove the BNP out of Tower Hamlets in situation of having soaring monthly rents, which all too the 1990s. In the words of another of my predecessors, often mean people, particularly those on low incomes, Mildred Gordon: are faced with an increased risk of homelessness. “Eastenders are proud people; they are fighters. They fought The leadership of my right hon. Friend the Member Mosley in Cable Street. They knew how to unite—community side by side with community—against the people who were for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) has achieved so attacking them. They stood firm during the war and they will much in shifting the debate on austerity and public stand firm against attacks on their way of life today.” ownership towards a vision of a fairer and more equal It is in this tradition of socialism, community solidarity society. It is, however, heartbreaking that we are now and action that I address the Chamber today, having faced with five more years of hardship, which will be been the first British Bangladeshi woman elected as devastating for my constituents. But so many new Labour secretary of the Tower Hamlets Labour party and now MPs are, like me, working-class, women and from ethnic the first hijab-wearing Member of Parliament. minority backgrounds, with lived experiences of the Like many of my colleagues in Parliament, my personal reality of people’s day-to-day lives. journey has not been easy, but I am proud of my party’s The east end has always been a bedrock of diversity, record on progressing women’s rights and fighting for resilience and resistance. It is in this spirit that I will equality, and I look forward to being a part of taking seek to hold this Government to account over the next this even further. The truth is that there is so much more five years. to be done. Poplar and Limehouse has a high percentage of people 1.54 pm from ethnic minority backgrounds, and we know better than most that we must never again embark on illegal Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne) (Con): It is an honour wars and imperialism, but should instead adopt a to speak in this debate, and a particular honour to progressive, outward-looking global view driven by social follow the maiden speech of the hon. Member for justice, solidarity and human rights. Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum). I confess that As someone who has first-hand experience of the rise until now my only insight and knowledge of her of Islamophobia over the past decades, it is alarming constituency was from “Call the Midwife”, so the hon. that racism, Islamophobia and antisemitism in particular Lady has brought me up to contemporary times. I am are growing. While the Government continue to use sure she is right that her predecessor would be proud, divisive politics, which has culminated in the hostile and her father, too, and I am sure that her constituents environment for migrants that led to the Windrush have in her a strong defender who will make strong scandal, we know that the fight for justice and change is arguments and address the challenges she outlined today not over. I will always stand with my constituency— with passion. I congratulate her most warmly on her diverse, dynamic, multicultural, multiracial and with maiden speech. people of different faiths and none, and from all around While we are talking in this debate from the four the world—against intolerance, violence and division. corners of our United Kingdom, and indeed looking This includes campaigning for migrant rights, including globally, I want to beg Members’ indulgence and narrow the rights of EU citizens, in Poplar and Limehouse and down the GPS tracker to BN23 7EA—Langney Primary beyond. School, in my wonderful home town of Eastbourne, I wish my father—parent to five daughters, and a where last week I joined the children for their equality forward-thinking community organiser himself—was day. They had all dressed up to match their future still here to see me today, but I carry his encouragement, career ambitions and job aspirations. The Prime Minister 1039 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1040

[Caroline Ansell] to the House. That important legislation will protect and empower victims and see perpetrators brought to will be pleased to learn that public services were well justice. I hope that it will command the support of the represented, with perhaps some future police and nurses whole House. When the hon. Member for Birmingham, in their number, and writers and journalists, too. There Yardley (Jess Phillips) read out those names, I am sure were one or two children dressed as Spiderman in the that all of us here felt the full weight of the responsibility mix, so that will take some careful signposting in the to do all we can to turn the tide and change the culture. years to come, and one princess, so definitely the need Every one of those names represents someone’s mum, for a plan B there. However, at the tender age of seven, daughter, sister or cousin. eight, nine and 10, they are being taught to believe that There is more, too. We know that in the UK women they are stepping out into a world of opportunities and are much more likely to have time out for caring, which that whoever they are—girls or boys, and whatever their then has lasting impacts on pay and progression. Nearly background—their future is theirs and they can be 90% of those not working because of caring for home whatever they want to be. Their ambitions are high, and and family are women. However, more girls are going I was hugely impressed. They grilled me later, so there into STEM subjects, there are more women in employment were definitely one or two journalists in the mix. That is and leadership, and the pay gap is closing. Despite that, what progress looks like, and it speaks well for the the work is most certainly not done. future. Sadly, there is much to do in other countries, too. International Women’s Day has been celebrated for Even basic access to education or the right to vote is not 100 years and more, and in that time tremendous change guaranteed for millions of women. Add to that young has been brokered in our nation. Women did not have girls forced into marriage and female genital mutilation the vote in the world my grandma was born into, but, in and we all know that there are considerable challenges an historical blink of an eye, I have the honour of being ahead for too many women globally.International Women’s Eastbourne’s first woman MP, again—I hope the hon. Day is an important marker in the sands of time. In Member for Poplar and Limehouse does not drink from Britain, we have come far and we can be proud of our the same cup as me by tasting a defeat and then being progress towards equality. We must continue to use our called back to this place to make a second maiden influence to ensure that that progress is for every woman speech; her first maiden speech was admirable and quite in every country. enough. This is a day to mark just how far we have come since International Women’s Day began. But we are still 2.2 pm marking it because its original aim—equality for women Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab): It is a real pleasure the world over—is still to be fulfilled. The World Economic to be in the Chamber to hear such powerful and interesting Forum 2017 report predicts it could take another 100 years speeches in a debate that we agree across the House is before the global equality pay gap between men and one of the best that we have, every year. My hon. women is fully closed. That gap is most marked in Friends the Members for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess lifetime pay and in political leadership. Women make Phillips) and for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) call up half the world’s population, yet their voices are still International Women’s Day “feminists’ Christmas”, and not heard in equal numbers in the places where decisions one of our presents this year was the brilliant maiden are made. They need to be, and our institutions need to speech by my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and look like the people they represent. Limehouse (Apsana Begum). According to the United Nations, only 24% of all I am going to lower the tone and mood now by national parliamentarians are women. In the UK, 34% talking about misogyny, I am afraid. The dictionary of House of Commons Members are women, as has definition of misogyny is been stated. However, on that front Sussex is leading “hatred or dislike of, or prejudice against women”. the way, and East Sussex is practically Amazonian. In Sussex in 2005 a solitary one in 16 seats was represented It comes in various forms and wears various guises—from by a woman; there was a doubling of numbers to two in the more subtle, everyday acts of sexism that chip away 2010, and a magnificent seven in 2019. I am delighted to at the fragile, paper-thin walls of equality, to the cruder, say that today my parliamentary next-door neighbour, more blatant, neanderthal acts that undermine half the my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield), world’s human population. Part of our job as women in will be closing this important debate. Parliament is to receive it, filter it, weather it, police it, ignore it, highlight it, talk about it, help other women My own constituency of Eastbourne has women of deal with it, tackle it so that other women do not have influence in positions across the sectors—from the chief to, and fight it constantly with a view to eradicating it reporter at the Eastbourne Herald and the chief executive completely. But that task is not unlike having to sieve all at the chamber of commerce to the police and crime the little bits of plastic out of our oceans. commissioner, Katy Bourne. Those women and so very many more are the important role models we need the At what point should we call it out? Should it be at next generation to see. the point where it starts to niggle and nag at us, something that we can just make out—a harmless little comment, a Progress is relative, of course, and problems persist; dismissal or exclusion from the conversation? Should it that is why debates such as this are timely. Domestic be in the face of never-ending mansplaining by men abuse in all its forms is a devastating crime that leaves who know literally nothing about subjects that we are, people living in fear. Our PCC Katy Bourne has done in fact, experts in? Or should it be at the point where it tremendous work in this area, and I welcome the fact stops us in our tracks, takes our breath away and fills that this week the Domestic Abuse Bill was reintroduced our lungs with rage and indignation instead, such as 1041 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1042 when we see the leaders of nations treating women as consequences. Let us follow leading broadcasters such second-class citizens, as less than men, as after-thoughts, as Iain Lee, himself so brave and honest when discussing commodities, arm candy and mere playthings? issues such as mental health, and be kind. Kindness Misogyny is not especially choosy. It is not confined costs nothing, and it could actually start to save lives. to one particular class, specific cultures, institutions or political parties. Some may appear to be more blatantly 2.8 pm sexist and some may appear to have made great strides in recent history—that, of course, is something to celebrate. Jackie Doyle-Price (Thurrock) (Con): It is a great The Labour party now has more female MPs than male pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Canterbury ones for the first time in history. But the roots and very (Rosie Duffield), who, like many speakers today, has culture of so many organisations are so steeped in the given us much food for thought. history of men—male stories, male voices, male experience We have heard from only one man in this debate so and even male portraits. It will take a lot more time and far—other than yourself, Mr Deputy Speaker—the hon. our patience will be tested quite a bit more, before we Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty). start to see and really feel meaningful change. I want to make the observation that we are here in the One place where it is not hard to find sexism and United Kingdom, we pride ourselves on being a modern, misogyny—it takes about a nano-second—is, of course, civilised country, a democracy, yet too often we turn a social media. The vitriol against, and hatred of, women blind eye to the kind of discrimination that we should is there for all to see. Rape threats, death threats or really not tolerate in a civil society. The hon. Member casual references to violence should not be commonplace, for Canterbury was just sharing her observations about but we know that they are. It seems that any woman the wild west that is social media—frankly, all we need with almost any opinion or thought who dares to be to do is open a Twitter account to find ourselves the bold enough to express it is in line for a world of fun. focus of abuse these days. That reminded me of an Brace yourselves, ladies—speaking your mind online is occasion three or four years ago. a bit like wearing a onesie made of raw beef while We had a particular problem with car cruising in my heading for a paddle in the nearest piranha tank! We do constituency. Car cruising is something that, normally, not need to have a blue tick next to our names to bring young men do when they soup up their cars. They the hungriest of those piranhas to the tank, but it helps. turned the local road network in my constituency into a Female politicians with a mind, some thoughts and the motor track, causing immense distress for residents, audacity to express them are fair game. who were disturbed by the noise. It was dangerous and on numerous occasions, people who turned up as spectators Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP): As everyone in at these races were injured when collisions happened. I the House will know, women have been subjected to was working with the local police to try to tackle this horrendous trolling and comments on social media. menace. As a result, after issuing a press release with a Does the hon. Lady agree that the Government must picture of me and the police officers attending one of get serious about online trolling and cyber-security? these events, the whole story went viral among the They should listen to the women in this House who male community of car cruisers. There were literally have been subjected to it. I have been, and it is important hundreds of thousands of very unpleasant comments that women have a voice when these decisions are being towards me. made. As we all know, we develop our own ways of managing these situations. It is quite easy to ignore it—just do not Rosie Duffield: Absolutely. I would welcome any such look—but these quite unpleasant messages were being discussion in this House—and we know that the issue circulated. It was actually the local BBC that reported goes across the House; it is not just about one particular the traffic to the police, because it included death threats party. I thank the hon. Lady for raising the point. and some very unpleasant sexual imagery and messages. Luckily, most of us here are made of pretty tough In the end, two people were arrested and action was stuff: we do not usually get to this place by accident. taken. What was interesting to me, however, was that But tough or not, our strength and mental wellbeing the action was taken against the death threats, whereas can be pushed to breaking point. The sinister side of the the more unpleasant and aggressive content was that kind of serious online abuse that public figures are which was very misogynist and sexual in nature. When often subjected to can lead to some pretty dark places— we look at that against the backdrop of the hon. Member from pile-ons on social media, to nasty, anonymous for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) yet again reading emails, swastikas daubed on office doors or bricks out the names of people who have been killed over the thrown through windows. But it is not all doom and last year, we see that we almost seem to have accepted gloom either. On social media, communities are speaking this as normal, and that is why no one is getting upset out for each other more and more—women making about it. It really should not be normal and we should sure that those most abused feel supported and safe. use occasions such as this to call it out. I just wish that A couple of days ago, a petition with 850,000 signatures some of our male colleagues were here to participate was taken to Downing Street, every one of them inspired and show solidarity with us on this, instead of making by the hurt and pain collectively felt by the nation when smart-arsed comments like, “Ooh, when are we having we heard the terrible news of Caroline Flack’s tragic an International Men’s Day debate?” If I had a pound death. There is now recognition that things need to for every time somebody had said that to me, I would be change—not just for five minutes or five months, but very rich—I just leave that message on the record. significantly. There can be no more terrible tragedies I want to talk about some of the more practical such as Caroline Flack’s—no more salacious gossip things that we can do to tackle hidden discrimination printed as news for our entertainment. There are real against women, in the context of health. I will also 1043 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1044

[Jackie Doyle-Price] but they can do much more to be understanding and have conversations that allow women to take control of make some observations about sexual violence and how their treatment. it is still commonplace for a blind eye to be turned where sexual violence is used as a tool to oppress I also make the observation that it is not that long women. Notwithstanding the conviction of Harvey since Viagra was licensed to treat male erectile dysfunction. Weinstein, which is obviously very welcome, it is still People do not need a prescription now to get Viagra—they too common and the state needs to do more to tackle it can buy it over the counter. I would really like to see when it arises. I will end with some observations about such things as the contraceptive pill and hormone- the debate on gender dysphoria and trans issues, which replacement therapy available over the counter, too, so I fear has become rather ugly in recent weeks. that women can do much more to look after their health. I had a moment of revelation when I was a Minister for health. Over a period of time, a number of colleagues To turn to the issue of sexual violence, I add my voice from across the House would come to share their to those who welcome the Domestic Abuse Bill, but we experiences with me as women accessing healthcare for also need to take on board the fact that sexual violence various reasons. I witnessed quite a lot of distress as is often—more than often—another tool of oppression colleagues recounted their experiences. I had been through in the domestic violence context. We must not let that similar experiences and I suddenly had a moment of be taboo. The hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley clarity and thought, “Crikey, we are all assertive, pushy said that, too often, the issue of children committing women. We all have voices that we are prepared to use, violence against parents is taboo, and sexual violence yet we have all been diminished at the hands of medical within the domestic abuse context is also taboo. We can professionals when it comes to talking about often very pass as many laws as we like, but the root of all this is intimate issues.” I took it upon myself to try to do behaviour and the need to challenge those behaviours. something about that. Whenever we do not shine a light on them, we are acknowledging that they are normal. Underlying all this is that whenever women’s bodies are being seen as incubators for babies, everything is I remember when the issue of the systemic abuse in very straightforward, but too many morbidities come Rotherham materialised. Sitting underneath the failure from our bodies being the way they are, which frankly, to act by the local authority, the police and everyone are seen as an inconvenience by the health establishment, else was a prejudice—that for this particular class of and we often suffer in silence as a result. I am appalled girls, what more could they expect? That was totally that one in 10 women suffers from the incredibly chronic unacceptable. I fear that we are witnessing exactly the pain and heavy bleeding associated with endometriosis. same thing again when we talk about gang culture and They can go for years before that is diagnosed and live knife crime, because we are talking about gangs that are incredibly difficult lives as a consequence. There has not just made up of young black men stabbing each been virtually no research into the causes and possible other. There are girls associated with these gangs who treatments for endometriosis.Frankly,if men were suffering are being groomed for sexual purposes, yet none of us is from it, that simply would not be the case. talking about it. It is like the lessons of Rotherham have not been recognised at all, and it is incumbent on all of One in three women suffer from fibroids, which, us in the House to make sure that we properly address again, lead to heavy bleeding and terrible pain. Yet these things. again, too often women are told to run along, that that is their lot and that that is just the way it is. The result is We need to do much more collectively to empower that we all think that our experience of a period is young women to value and protect themselves and not normal when actually, if someone is spending more feel that they have to be pressured into sexual relationships than £10 a month on pain relief and sanitary protection, that they do not want. It is horrifying to see the increased their period is not normal. The more that we can do to sexual violence against our young women now and we make women think about their menstrual health, so all need to tackle it collectively. The tabloid culture that that they can take early action and get support earlier, values everyone by their appearance, figure and who the better, and we will do them a great deal of good. No they are associated with does not help. The hon. Member woman should have to tolerate, or think it is normal to for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield) mentioned Caroline be, bleeding for three weeks of every month, doubled Flack, and it is a really good example, but there are up in chronic pain and having to sit with a hot water other successful women who are abused for their inability bottle every day. to have relationships with men. Jennifer Aniston is one of our best comedy actresses and a worldwide star, but When women do get treatment for these conditions, every time we see an article about her, it is about the fact they are generally told, “Have a baby—it will go away,” that she could not keep Brad Pitt, or that she has had “Go on the pill” or “Have a hysterectomy.”Again, there another failed marriage, or who her boyfriend is this is not enough emotional intelligence or coaxing and time. It is absolutely outrageous. No woman should be there are not enough ways of helping women to help defined by their relationship with a man. The same goes themselves and to live with a condition that can bring for Kylie Minogue. Crikey, would we not all like to be incredible stress. We all need to do much more collectively Kylie Minogue and look like Kylie Minogue? But she to empower women to have sensible and constructive also gets vilified with, “How many boyfriends has she conversations with medical professionals. Medical had? She can’t keep a man.” So blooming well what? A professionals need to be encouraged to see the human message to all the men out there—“Do you know what, being in front of them. This is not a criticism—medical us women can do very well without you, thank you very professionals are human beings, too, and have to have much. Think yourself lucky that some of us let you into ways of dealing with people in distressing conditions, our lives.” 1045 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1046

The issue of Caroline Flack is particularly instructive had with her daughter, who is on the spectrum. As she because her life and her relationships with men were said, one of the classic symptoms of autism is that, as a tabloid fodder. Even in her death we had to read about sort of self-defence tactic, you become a different the fact that she went out with Harry Styles, who was personality. When we think about that in the context of however many years younger than her. Caroline Flack’s puberty and unhappiness with the way your body is life story should be a message as to how toxic our changing, of course it is a natural response to pretend culture has become, and how, if we are going to do to be a different gender. I really think we have failed in something more for young women going forwards, we this House; we have not given sufficient scrutiny and should encourage them to value themselves in their own debate to a treatment which, frankly, if it is given out identity and not through their relationships with men. wrong, will do real harm to those girls and boys who go I am particularly uncomfortable that the debate around through it. I hope that this is something that we can give trans rights and gender dysphoria has become pitted more attention to in future. against the rights of women. It is surely not beyond the wit of policymakers to devise a set of rules and principles 2.25 pm that protect the rights of transsexuals to find a way of Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): It living their lives and do not discriminate against women was really interesting to listen to the hon. Member for at the same time. Those of us who want to see women-only Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price). It struck me that male safe spaces are not guilty of hate crime against trans interests are unassailable and that misogyny can somehow people—not at all. I think people who are trans want to be dismissed as banter. The knock-on effect of that in quietly get on with their lives. It does not help any of society is considerable. I would like to address the them that they are pitted against women in this terrible, assumption that where the male interest lies is the social horrible toxic debate. The only people who are winning norm. through this debate are those men who use their power to oppress women, and see the opportunity to claim the A part of me thinks that, in all honesty, we surely right to self-identify as a weapon. None of us in this must regret the need for International Women’s Day. room should collude with that. We have already seen We can celebrate the fact that we are in this House, but the case of Karen White, who self-identified as a woman, for many women, the fact that we are holding this went into prison and committed crimes against fellow conversation today shows that society is riven with inmates. We must be able to devise a law that stops that divisions that affect many women’s lives. To put it very happening but also supports those who are most vulnerable simply, women are more likely than men to be in poverty, and need to have their rights defended. more likely to be unable to afford basic resources such as food and heating, and less likely to have savings to Parliament has failed to give proper oversight of the fall back on in hard times. The point is not that women’s growing number of transgender interventions for younger poverty is worse than men’s; it is not in the quality of people. We have allowed treatments to develop at the the experience. No one here would say that people Tavistock really unsupervised. This is no criticism of should be living in poverty. I will couch this in rather the medical professionals there, who clearly are doing grand academic words, and then I will try to describe it their work with the best of intentions, but we need to in less grand academic words: the key point is that look at the ethics of some of this and the practicalities women’sexperiences of poverty are shaped by problematic of it. We are seeing more and more girls being referred gender and societal norms. I apologise for those terms, for gender reassignment treatment. We are talking about and I will try to unpick them. girls well below the age of majority. I personally am There are reasons why women are poorer than men, very uncomfortable—well, I think it is wrong—about and we here have a duty to ask why. One of the reasons, putting forward people for treatment that is irreversible of course, is that women often still take the primary when they are not in a position legally to give consent. responsibility for care—we are used to these conversations. We really need to be more honest about the challenges Although that is the case, it is simply not feasible for all of puberty. women to lift themselves out of poverty by earning Puberty is horrible. I was a tomboy when I was more through increasing their hours of work or securing growing up—that probably does not surprise hon. Members. a better paid job. The reality for many women is that When I got to my teens and suddenly felt my body their work has to fit into their caring responsibilities. changing, it was horrible. I hated every minute of it. I Their lives include a range of responsibilities. There is cannot believe what might have happened to me now, not just more time to squash into the day. Their ability going through that. I carried on climbing trees and so to work and progress is limited by the need to find a on, and playing at being “CHiPs” rather than “Charlie’s balance between working and caring. Angels”, but now I would be on my iPad and I would Let us just remember some of the simple things. suddenly find lots of other people who thought like me Women are not being paid for their work of caring for and then—guess what?—all those people are going to their children or their families. They never have been; it the Tavistock. It scares the hell out of me. I fear we are is historically women’s work. Our society defines the doing harm to girls when actually this is something that status of an activity with remuneration. This disregard they could just be going through. It is quite a normal for the worth of caring for others is echoed in the thing not to be comfortable with what is happening to workplace. It is of course no coincidence that jobs that our bodies. The fact that so many of the girls who are involve care generally—let’s face it, almost invariably going for such treatment also have issues with autism they are lower-paid employment—are traditionally done frightens me even more. by women. Nowhere is that more obvious than in the I was contacted by a parent just this week who social care sector. Careworkers perform the vital work thanked me for something that I had said about this of looking after our most vulnerable people, yet their issue. She wanted to talk about the experience she had reward is to be overworked, underpaid and trapped, 1047 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1048

[Liz Saville Roberts] healthcare, sanitary products, legal defence, food and water, and much more. Perhaps the bravest of all are the often in precarious zero-hours contracts. Covid-19 has female human rights defenders who stand up to oppressive thrown our dependency on careworkers into stark profile, regimes in the face of imprisonment and torture. Those and if there proves to be a shortage of careworkers, we courageous women promote the right to an education, might be asking ourselves why. and the right to live and work free from harassment and The immigration proposals that the Government intimidation. They deserve our complete admiration. published recently will only make the situation worse The right to an education is the most important thing for careworkers, because of the sector’s reliance on that we can extend to women around the world. According migrant workers. In placing a greater weight on salaries to the World Bank, nearly a quarter of girls globally do than on skills, the Government will place a sector that is not complete secondary education, and the number already overworked and understaffed under increased rises to two thirds in low-income countries. One third pressure. We have heard today about the sort of jobs do not even get a full primary education. That means that we should be encouraging women to take—the sort that 131 million girls worldwide do not go to school. of “good” jobs that are generally celebrated. The This lack of education has so manydisastrous consequences. Government propose to give More than 300,000 women die each year giving birth. “top priority to those with the highest skills...scientists, engineers, UNESCO estimates that if all mothers completed primary academics”. education, including lessons about health and hygiene, Those are sectors in which the under-representation of that number would be reduced by two thirds—by more women is a significant issue, and that tells us all we need than 200,000 women each year. to know—and, to be fair, this applies not only to the Government but to society as a whole—about what we Of course, it is not only the mother but the child who count as important jobs. is at risk. If all women had a primary education, infant The truth is that we live in a society that values mortality would be reduced by 15%, and if all women looking after machines more than looking after people. had a secondary education, it would be reduced by That, to me, is an extraordinary statement to make. As 50%. That would save 3 million lives. Those numbers soon as it has been made, we know that there is something are a shocking illustration of the positive impact of wrong with our values when we value machines more even a basic education. Keeping girls at school drastically than people. Achieving equality is not about more reduces the chances of their becoming pregnant as women looking after machines, or more men being children. In many societies, youth pregnancies cause the poorly paid in the care sector; it is about tackling the girls in question to be forced into marriage. In Tanzania, root causes of poverty by shifting our economic priorities for example, a third of girls become pregnant and get towards the wellbeing of people. That is staggeringly married before the age of eighteen. Having very young obvious when we say it, but it is interesting that it has to mothers with a limited education has a further impact be said. We can begin by establishing parity of pay on infant nutrition: 12 million fewer children would between social care and healthcare staff and creating a suffer from malnutrition if all women had a secondary fairer welfare system, starting—I would say this, of education. course—by devolving welfare to Wales so that we can sort out our own problems better,and reforming universal There is also the socioeconomic impact. Children credit. whose mothers can read are twice as likely to attend school, creating a new generation of educated women Let me end by saying that the goal is not simply for who are more likely to find work and to earn more women to achieve equality with men, but for us to build money for that work—although, as we know, equal pay a better society for everyone—a society in which the for women is still some distance away, even in developed worth of caring for each other is so self-evident that it countries. The Government estimate that $28 trillion does not have to be put on record in this place. would be added to global GDP if women had the same 2.31 pm role in the labour market as men. I am really pleased Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) (Con): I am that last year the Prime Minister committed himself to delighted that we are holding the debate again this year. £515 million of UK funding to help more than 12 million It is an important opportunity to highlight the severe children to go to school. That will improve women’s challenges that are still being faced by women all over rights and their health, and will enable them to contribute the world, but it is also an opportunity to celebrate the more to their communities—but of course there is amazing work done by women in business, science, much more to do. healthcare and education. We are aware of the impact that educated women can The speeches that we have heard so far have been very have. I think of Benazir Bhutto, who had one of the best interesting, moving and inspiring, and as varied as one educations imaginable—some of it in this country—and would expect from women MPs. I pay tribute to the went on to smash the glass ceiling in Pakistan. I think of hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips), Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, former President of Liberia and who, every year, has to read out a list of names which is the first female democratically elected leader of an far too long. I agree with my hon. Friend the Member African country. Less well known, but close to my for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) that it is disappointing heart, is Huda al-Sarari, a Yemeni lawyer who has that there are not enough men here to listen to that, and lived and worked in the country for the last 15 years. also to contribute to this important debate. Her writing has exposed the humanitarian crisis in As someone with a keen interest in foreign affairs and Yemen and exposed potential war crimes. All that development, I also want to commend the excellent work has been done in the face of aggressive and highly done by, and for, women by international aid charities. conservative militia groups who try to silence women, Despite the risks, those charities provide women with often by using violence. 1049 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1050

The benefits of educating women are relatively widely I was very pleased to hear the maiden speech of my known, but I want to speak about an aspect that is hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse rarely discussed: the role of women in bringing about (Apsana Begum). I was a councillor in Tower Hamlets peace. Northern Ireland provides a fantastic example for eight years, and I recall very well the rise of the of that. In 1996 two women, Monica McWilliams and British National party, and the community coming May Blood, came together to form the Northern Ireland together to crush it back in 1994. She spoke very well Women’s Coalition, which was one of the few groups to about the women’s involvement in Cable Street, and bring together Protestants and Catholics. In doing so, about the suffragettes in the east end. I am sure she will they won enough support in the public election of 1996 also recall the important role that the matchwomen to earn seats around the negotiating table during the played as grandmothers of the Labour movement—and, peace talks. Because they represented both communities, I think, of the Labour party. I notice that a number they were seen as a reliable channel between the opposing of us are wearing ribbons to mark the matchwomen’s sides. In that role, they facilitated and helped to shape strike in 1888. the Good Friday agreement in 1998. I want to take this opportunity to celebrate the amazing Sadly, however, that model has not been embraced in politicians and activists who have been fighting for so subsequent peace negotiations. In major peace processes long to change the injustice in Northern Ireland around between 1992 and 2018, women made up only 3% of abortion law.In particular,I have to mention my remarkable mediators, 4% of signatories and 13% of negotiators, hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy). and the majority of peace agreements included no female Someone once said to me that MP should stand for signatories at all. Astoundingly, only two women in “must persevere”, and the perseverance that my hon. history, Miriam Coronel-Ferer and Tzipi Livni, have Friend has shown is remarkable. I pay great tribute to served as chief negotiators, and only one has ever her, and to my hon. Friends the Members for Bristol signed a final peace accord as chief negotiator. More South (Karin Smyth) and for Rochdale (Tony Lloyd), than 80% of agreements make no reference to women and to Baroness Barker in the other place. Those changes, at all. which will be introduced in the next few weeks, will help This is bad, not just for women but for all of us. us in this place to think again about the law that Research shows that peace treaties are 64% less likely to currently applies, the Abortion Act 1967, which I think fail with the participation of women’s groups, and is due for a review. agreements involving women are 35% more likely to last We all know that the last few years have been very for at least 15 years. The World Bank finds that higher difficult for all MPs, but particularly women MPs, given levels of gender equality are associated with a lower the insults, threats and behaviours we have faced— tendency towards conflict—well, of course they are. behaviours that, when I came to this place in 2005, I While men are more likely, sometimes unwillingly, to had not really experienced. The last few years have been serve as soldiers and to die in fighting, women are made very difficult, and of course there was the tragic murder the mourning mothers and widows left at home. A of our good friend Jo Cox. However, I know that many society that values the opinions and votes of those women around the world who put themselves forward women will always be more averse to warfare, so getting to be politicians, journalists or human rights defenders more women involved in peace, whether at grassroots or face harassment, intimidation and victimisation daily. at negotiations, must be a priority. This is not a new revelation. President Johnson Sirleaf and fellow Liberian Hillary Clinton coined the phrase, Leymah Gbowee won the Nobel peace prize in 2011 in “human rights are women’s rights, and women’s rights are human part for their struggle for women’sright to full participation rights”. in peacebuilding work. Despite their example, we are As it is International Women’s Day, I want to mention a still a long way off giving women the role they deserve few incredibly brave women around the world, and ask and need in peace efforts. the Government what they are will do to support them. That said, I am delighted that this is an area where First I want to raise the case of the Saudi right to drive the UK Government are taking a lead. The UK national campaigners. Several brave Saudi Arabian women who action plan on women, peace and security was published campaigned for the right to drive have been arbitrarily in 2018, when my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister detained since May 2018, including Samar Badawi and was Foreign Secretary. Of the seven strategic outcomes Loujain al-Hathloul. In November 2018, Amnesty in the plan, the first two are about increasing women’s International reported that several of those women participation in decision making and peacekeeping. There faced sexual harassment, torture and other forms of is much more to do, but I am very glad that the lack of ill-treatment during interrogation, including electrocution women’s representation in peace making has not only and flogging, leaving some unable to walk or stand been recognised but rectified. The Government should properly. In one reported incident, one of the activists push ahead with this bold agenda, because all of us will was made to hang from the ceiling. Can the Minister benefit as a result. say whether the Foreign Secretary, on his recent visit to Saudi Arabia, called for the unconditional release of 2.39 pm those women activists? Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) I also wanted to highlight in the Chamber the case of (Lab): I start by paying tribute to my hon. Friend the Nasrin Sotoudeh, a prominent lawyer and human rights Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) for defender in Iran. She was arrested at her home on reading out that list again. Very sadly, one of my 13 June 2018 and detained without charge for over constituents, Libby Squire, was on that list. She was a six months. She was convicted on seven charges and young woman at Hull University, at the very start of her sentenced to 33 years in prison and 148 lashes. Her university career. It is an appalling tragedy that she—and peaceful human rights activities against being forced to all the other women, of course—is on that list. wear the hijab, including those undertaken when acting 1051 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1052

[Dame Diana Johnson] are women. The convention makes it clear that it is the obligation of the state to address it fully in all its forms, as a lawyer—for example, when meeting clients—were and to take measures to protect all women from violence, used to build a criminal case against her. Even her to protect victims and to prosecute perpetrators. The insistence on choosing an independent lawyer, instead convention leaves no doubt that there can be no real of one from the list of 20 selected by the head of the equality between women and men if women experience judiciary, has been cited as a criminal act. Will the UK gender-based violence on a large scale and state agencies Government call on the Iranian authorities to release and institutions do not do enough to stop it. Nasrin immediately and drop all charges against her? I raised the issue of the UK’s failure to ratify The third case I wanted to highlight was that of Dina the Istanbul convention in the House of Commons last Meza from Honduras. She is a celebrated independent week. That was before the Domestic Abuse Bill was journalist committed to defending freedom of expression reintroduced. I asked whether it was the requirement to and information. She spent years investigating and reporting support migrant women experiencing domestic abuse on human rights violations across the country and that was holding things up. It seems, I am sorry to say, challenging those breaches. Dina worked at incredible that it is. Migrant women often find it impossible to personal risk, and has previously had to flee Honduras access emergency protection because of the no recourse for her safety. Because of the threats she faces, she to public funds condition, and they are highly vulnerable receives protective accompaniment from Peace Brigades to domestic abuse, and to coercive control in that situation, International. What steps have the UK Government as a result of their immigration status. I am pleased to taken to help promote freedom of expression and protect see that the new Domestic Abuse Bill is going to address women journalists in Honduras? some of the remaining issues preventing us from ratifying Finally, I want to talk about Rosalinda Dionicio the convention, such as extraterritorial effect, but it will from Mexico. She is the leader of the United Peoples’ still fall short in the key area of the provision of services Network of the Ocotlán Valley in Defence of Territory, for migrant women, and that is simply not good enough. which, since 2009, has been demanding the closure of My colleagues in the Scottish Government have ensured the San Jose mine, which is owned by a subsidiary of the passage of all the necessary legislation to enable the Canadian company, Fortuna Silver Mines. The group ratification in respect of devolved matters. Does anyone says the mine has caused enormous environmental think that the Scottish Government, led by my colleague destruction and water shortages in the community. Nicola Sturgeon, would still be quibbling after all this Rosalinda was attacked by gunmen in 2012, but survived. time about extending services to highly vulnerable migrants? Despite the attack and the subsequent threats, she continues I think we all know that the answer to that question is to struggle for the rights of the indigenous communities no. Last year, on International Women’s Day, the Irish affected. What will the Government do to help protect Government ratified the Istanbul convention. The UK and improve the security of indigenous women human is now one of only six EU—or, in our case, former rights defenders in Mexico? EU—countries still to do so. I believe that the best thing the British Government could do to mark this International Those are just some examples of incredibly brave Women’s Day would be to ratify the convention. When women around the world to whom we politicians need does the Minister think that the Government will deal to pay tribute. We need to press our Government to with the issue in relation to migrant women, and when stand alongside them and do whatever they can to will we be in a position to ratify? protect them. Just last week, the UN Commissioner on Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet—I hope I have pronounced 2.47 pm that correctly—warned against complacency regarding Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP): I women’s rights. She said that women’s rights start by paying tribute to the hon. Member for Poplar “cannot be an optional policy, subject to the changing winds of and Limehouse (Apsana Begum), who gave us a very politics”. powerful and assured maiden speech and much food for When we look at the statistics right across the world, we thought. On International Women’s Day, we should can see that she is absolutely right about that. One in think about what kind of country we women want to three women across the world experiences violence that live in. I was reflecting on this when I realised, to my is perpetrated by men. Between 60 million and 100 million disappointment, that the Domestic Abuse Bill, which women who should be alive today are missing, presumed was recently reintroduced, will be yet another missed dead, because of male violence. One woman dies every opportunity for the United Kingdom Government to minute across the world due to problems relating to finally do what is necessary to ratify the Istanbul convention. pregnancy,and 15 million adolescent girls have experienced As my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North forced sex. I am sure that we can multiply that figure East (Anne McLaughlin), who speaks for my party on several times for adult women. We also know that 72% women and equalities issues, said, our then colleague in of human trafficking victims are female, and that the the SNP Dr Eilidh Whiteford led a successful campaign vast majority, many of whom are children, are trafficked in 2017 to pass a law requiring the UK Government to for the purposes of prostitution. Women also work two ratify the Istanbul convention. This was the first time out of three of all labour hours worldwide, but they that an SNP MP had managed to get a private Member’s earn just 10% of the world’s income. Bill into law, and it is very sad that, three years later, the For all these reasons, women must be allowed to UK Government have yet to ratify the convention. organise themselves to campaign against their oppression. The Istanbul convention is based on the understanding Sometimes, this means excluding the group that has that violence against women is a form of gender-based historically been responsible for the oppression of women, violence that is committed against women because they and that group is men. One of the things I want to say 1053 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1054 today, as forcefully as I can, is that it is eminently and upholding abusive tweets threatening direct violence reasonable for women to organise on the basis of their towards leading feminists such as Caroline Criado Perez sex, if they wish to do so. It is also legal for them to do and Helen Lewis. As a result of my intervention—not so. It has been central to decades of feminist thought because I am special, but because I am a Member of to say that gender is imposed on women in order to Parliament and Twitter has to listen to people like uphold their oppression. By gender, feminists mean me—those tweets were taken down and Twitter said presentation, modes of dress and the falsehood of masculine that it would look again at its policy on hateful conduct, and feminine personality traits, about which we heard which does not include sex as a protected characteristic, earlier. So if we say that gender is somehow innate, and which the Committee’sreport commented was problematic. that it supersedes sex, the logical conclusion is that The response to me doing my job in this House was women can somehow identify out of our oppression. an outpouring of bile on social media, culminating in a Many feminists disagree with that, but increasingly, death threat, which Police Scotland and the Metropolitan disagreeing with gender ideology has become a dangerous police took seriously enough to give me police protection. thing to do, as we heard from the hon. Member for Since then I have endured a daily stream of abuse on Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price). This brings me to the Twitter, including allegations that I am a transphobe problem of no-platforming and the attempted silencing and, ludicrously, a homophobe—it is quite difficult to of well-respected feminist academics and others simply be homophobic as a lesbian, but anyway. I am not for asserting women’s rights. I would like this Chamber, remotely transphobic; I support the rights of trans on International Women’s Day, to send the really strong people and have very good relationships with trans message across all the nations of these islands that women in my constituency. I can tell the House that no-platforming and attempting to silence feminist academics many trans women I speak to are angry that their quiet and other women who assert women’s rights is wrong. and dignified lives are being disrupted by malevolent Last weekend Selina Todd, a professor of modern individuals pushing identity politics in a way that is history at the University of Oxford, found herself disinvited anti-democratic and abusive. from making a short speech at a conference commemorating I am very proud of the fact that in Scotland we have the 50th anniversary of the first women’s liberation very good rights-based protections for trans people. No movement meeting in the UK. That meeting had taken one wants to change that, but some feminists have place at Ruskin College, as did last weekend’s conference. legitimate concerns about changing the law on gender Professor Todd is a feminist and a socialist who has recognition to allow self-identification. That is why I, written extensively about women’shistory and working-class along with a trans woman in my constituency, wrote to history.Since 2017 she has been president of the Socialist a colleague in the Scottish Government last year to Educational Association. The decision to silence her suggest that the issue might be considered by a citizen’s was not supported by the women who attended the assembly,in the way that Ireland has dealt with contentious conference, and thankfully it has been widely condemned, issues. That is because my constituent and I think that but she is one of a growing number of feminist academics refusing to acknowledge that legitimate concerns exist who have been censored for their views that biological is not a solution to the current impasse in the debate on sex matters and that women, as a marginalised group, gender recognition, and nor is shouting down and targeting should be allowed to organise themselves according to women. We must identify the issues, reflect and find their own definitions. ways of addressing them together. Professor Todd now requires security to attend her Last year I found myself in the ludicrous situation of place of work. Sadly, she is not alone. Professor Rosa having to sue PinkNews for wrongly alleging that I was Freedman, an expert in human rights law who has being investigated for homophobia. I am pleased to say worked for the UN and is now at the University of that it settled out of court, and I donated the damages Reading, has suffered similar abuse. Naturally, because to a well-known lesbian and gay charity. Unfortunately, she is Jewish, she has also received antisemitic abuse for not all bullies are as easy to tackle. It is over time that daring to be a feminist. The door of her office at the every Member from every party in this House stood up university has been vandalised and urinated on, and she to bullies in the gender lobby who want to shut down has been followed home by individuals threatening rape the right to free speech for those who do not 100% agree and violence, simply for asserting women’s right to with their ideology. organise on the basis of their sex. Even if one does not care about this issue, if we allow bullies to triumph over free speech in one area of public Elsewhere in the United Kingdom, the philosophy discourse, we are giving them free rein to triumph over professor Kathleen Stock has found herself de-platformed free speech in other areas of public discourse. I use the and subjected to a sustained campaign to have her word “bullies” advisedly, because men—and it is mostly ejected from her job at the University of Sussex. Prominent men—who want to silence women and prevent them female politicians and journalists in my own country, from organising as a sex class are bullies and human Scotland, have been hounded and told that they should rights deniers. lose their jobs, simply for asserting women’s sex-based The right has a strong tradition of standing up for rights. free speech and freedom of assembly, for which I applaud I had just a little taste of the treatment that some of it, and so once did the left in the United Kingdom. The those brave feminists have endured last year when, in left must stand up for free speech again where women’s the course of my duties on the Joint Committee on rights are concerned, and it must not give in to intimidation. Human Rights—ironically, it was during an inquiry The left should not let the right have a monopoly on into freedom of speech—I raised with a Twitter executive free speech and freedom of assembly. Those rights are Twitter’s one-sided practice of banning women and fundamental human rights and should matter to all of categorising as hate speech tweets stating biological us as democrats, regardless of whether we sit on the facts, such as “women don’t have penises”, while tolerating right or, as SNP Members do, on the left of politics. 1055 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1056

[Joanna Cherry] start a new life in the UK. So it is time the Government ensured that all survivors of domestic abuse, regardless Women must be allowed to organise to protect their of immigration status, are given full and equal access to hard won sex-based rights, and, on International Women’s public funds. I hope that the Government will put an Day, this House should stand up against the bullies who end to a policy that unfairly punishes women, and I are seeking to prevent them from doing that. hope they will listen to those inspirational women whom I heard from last week. Until they do, we will have a lot further to go in our pursuit of justice for all women. 3.1 pm

Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op): It is a pleasure 3.5 pm to follow the hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry). Alex Davies-Jones (Pontypridd) (Lab): It is a real International Women’s Day is a great opportunity to pleasure to follow my hon. Friend the Member for celebrate the progress made on women’s rights over the Edmonton (Kate Osamor) in a debate that, sadly, in last 100 years, but it is equally important to highlight 2020, is still needed more than ever. While preparing for the progress we are yet to make. today, I began to reflect on what International Women’s Day means for me. There is so much to celebrate about Women face multiple forms of injustice every single the progress that has been made for women, both back day, and the role of this Government in compounding at home in Wales and across the world. I particularly those injustices and preventing progress cannot be ignored. take inspiration from Governments across the globe, I will particularly focus today on the harm done to notably those of Finland and New Zealand, who have women who are denied access to public funds as a result clearly made promoting women a priority. I, too, am of their immigration status. hugely honoured to be doing my bit to improve gender As the law currently stands, most people who are diversity by representing the community I grew up and subject to immigration control are restricted from accessing still live in here in Westminster. Yet I am sure that welfare benefits or housing through their council. This Members from across the House will agree that there is leads directly to homelessness and poverty, with women much work to be done for women outside this bubble too. being particularly vulnerable to an increased risk of Ironically, the primary inspiration for my comments violence and abuse. As chair of the all-party parliamentary on International Women’sDaycomes from a very important group on no recourse to public funds, last week I heard man in my life: my son, Sullivan. Sulley will be celebrating first-hand accounts of the devastating impact this policy his first birthday in just a few short weeks, and I am can have on women who are trying their best to get on thrilled to be spending this International Women’s Day in life. I pay tribute to Dami Makinde, co-CEO of We with him by my side. I am sure I will face some stern Belong; Isatu, Amina, Suzanne and Titi, members of opposition from Members when I say that Sulley really Brighter Futures; and members of Sin Fronteras. They is the most precious child in the world. Before I am hit spoke about having no recourse to public funds and the by comments from aggrieved parents everywhere, let me financial burden of maintaining immigration status in say that like many people before us, my husband and I the UK while on the 10-year route to settlement, and knew that the road to pregnancy would be an extremely the impact that has on young people. As an all-party tough one. Yet, in the grand scheme of things, we were group, we are determined to make sure that the voices very lucky. After just one round of IVF, and against all of those affected are heard in this place, whether or not the odds, my only surviving embryo, my one in a million the Government are willing to listen. arrived. Sadly, he was quickly whisked away to the One account that sticks in my mind was from a young neonatal intensive care unit, where he spent the first two woman who said that her treatment, as somebody applying weeks of his life. I can hand on heart say that they truly for citizenship in this country, has left her feeling were the most difficult weeks of my life, and I would not dehumanised and unsafe. Having come to the UK as a wish the anxiety and sheer dread on anyone. My fertility child eight years ago, this is her home, but she said she story has a happy ending, but I know that for many this feels like a prisoner on parole for a crime she did not is not the case. commit. That sentiment is shared by many migrant At the end of this month, I will also be spending my women who have no recourse to public funds. Having first proper Mothers’ Day with Sulley. This is a day that fled torture, abuse or danger in another country, many for the past few years has filled me with sadness and of them find themselves isolated and excluded from the emptiness. Seeing the joy on so many faces on social society they choose to call their new home. media of mams up and down the country celebrating This is yet another example of a Government policy their children has always pulled at the part of me that that disproportionately harms women. It is a gift to has been desperate for a child while always knowing those who wish to perpetrate financial and physical that, without help, I would not be able to have one. This abuse. Women who would otherwise rely on welfare International Women’s Day, I want to shout out to benefits to get themselves on their feet find that they every woman who has looked at a celebratory social have no access to any kind of safety net. The absence of media pregnancy announcement, to every woman support, which is often so badly needed, is a powerful who has walked past a glowing bump in the street, to weapon of coercion in the hands of those who wish to every woman who has been asked, “When are you exploit women, using the fear of imprisonment, deportation having children?”, and to every woman who has had to or destitution. When the Government deny those women sympathetically listen to a friend moan about how tired access to basic human rights, such as housing and the she is from looking after her children, all while suppressing means of subsistence, they make that abuse more likely, the mixed emotions of envy, sadness and self-loathing. I they make exploitation more likely, and they make it want to say to those women: you are not alone. Sometimes harder for those women to fulfil their potential and as a woman struggling with fertility issues, you feel like 1057 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1058 a complete failure. You cannot talk about it with mams many new parents across the country. We must do all we without seeming bitter, and without having a stigma can to support new parents with better protections for surrounding you that your body has let you down and breastfeeding in the workplace, improved paternity leave has prevented you from becoming the mother you always legislation and a real consideration of our practices on dreamed of being but know that potentially you can egg freezing. never be. While I am extremely proud to produce a photo of I also want to shout out to those women who know Sulley as a three-day-old embryo, consisting of just eight that they do not want to have children or that they are cells, at any opportunity, I know that infertility and nowhere near ready for children but are under pressure breastfeeding present real struggles for families across from friends, family and society to get on with it before the world. I hope that, one day soon, we will not need a they are supposedly “over the hill” and “past their specific day to commemorate women and all the issues I prime”. So many women are told that they will change have outlined. I have faith that, instead, in the world Sulley their minds and that not wanting children is a “phase” will grow up in, true gender equality will be the norm. as though it is a reflection on their femininity. Having We need to champion new parents and do all we can children for me was a blessing, but it is also really hard to remove the guilt and stigma attached to parenthood. work and sacrifices have to be made. Career, mental It is okay to be selfish every now and then. I hope any health, self-care, body image, friendships, opportunities parent who is struggling feels able to reach out and and the choice to be selfish, which there is nothing speak about the issues I have raised today. Until then, I wrong with, are just a few of the many things that will do all I can from these green Benches to be a loud women up and down the country give up. voice for all those who feel they have had their voice I have wanted a child for as long as I can remember, silenced. and I would not change a thing about Sulley—except maybe his sleeping habits. But nothing can prepare you 3.12 pm for the guilt you feel as a working mam who is often away from home; it is truly all-consuming. Before Sulley Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP): It is a came along, I felt guilt for depriving my family of a genuine honour to follow the hon. Member for Pontypridd child who would be so welcomed and loved. I internalised (Alex Davies-Jones). I thank her for her speech and for guilt for not being able to conceive a child without her participation in the all-party parliamentary group medical intervention. The guilt does not end once the on infant feeding and inequalities. I look forward to child arrives, though: it follows you from sunrise to working with her in the months and years ahead. She sunset. Whether you are having to stay late at work, are picked up on a really important point in relation to IVF, out socialising with friends or are sat in this very which is another of the issues around women’s bodies, Chamber, the guilt carries on. and Conservative Members mentioned it as well. It is In a world where social media is infiltrated with images not taken into consideration in the workplace that IVF of supposed perfection, I regularly feel the pressure and is a difficult and sometimes traumatic experience. The guilt that come with feeling I am not good enough. I Government could do more to consider how women are know how lucky I am to have had access to fertility supported through it and to ensure that it is taken into treatment. I also know that most people are aware of account in workplaces across the country, regardless of the broad science behind IVF, so I will not indulge the status of the women in them, so that it is no longer a colleagues with too much of the detail today. I do, thing women cannot talk about. however, believe that this International Women’s Day is I want to be a tiny bit indulgent today and to thank the perfect opportunity for us all to reflect and to the women closest to me for the influence they have had carefully consider our policies around fertility and the on my life. I want first to thank my mum—a teacher, and rights of both parents on what is clearly a sensitive topic. the first in her family to go to university—who always Currently, a 10-year limit exists for women when reassured me that it did not matter how well I did in my freezing their eggs. If I had been faced with making a exams, because she would still be there for me and still decision in my early 20s about the prospect of having love me. I thank her very much for her support, without children in my 30s, I would not have known what the which I would really struggle to do this job today. next decade of life had in store for me. I definitely I also want to thank my Gran White, who was second would have been more focused on perfecting my Céline in her class at school in English and Latin, and third in Dion impression in karaoke bars in Cardiff, which, science, but who was forced to give up school at the age again, I will not indulge colleagues with today—at least of 14 to take on a cleaning job. The second world war not without some wine. Current legislation is placing gave her a second chance and saw her take up service in unnecessary pressure on women everywhere, and I hope the Wrens. That led to a good job in the telephone that, with reflection, that can change. exchange when she left service after the war, but, yet I am sure I am not alone when I say that the pressures again, she ended up being forced to leave when she got on women with children, whether conceived through married. However, her duty was always to her family, IVF or not, do not end with childbirth. I chose to and she pushed on everybody around her. She supported breastfeed Sulley, and it was the best decision I could my mum when she had me, so that she could go to work have made. However, it was also the hardest thing I have and carry out her role. ever done, and I sympathise with any new parent who is I pay tribute to Gran Thewliss, who passed away last up at ridiculous o’clock with a newborn attached to September at the age of 99. I miss her very dearly and their nipple, dreaming of a holiday in Hawaii. While I think of her quite a lot. We built tents together, baked have been extremely lucky that my workplace has generally cakes together, and picked out dresses together— been very accommodating—I pay tribute to the House [Interruption.] I did not mean to get quite so upset, but staff for the work they do—the same cannot be said by I thank her and I miss her. 1059 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1060

[Alison Thewliss] The insidious impact of this two-child limit is its judgment. There is this notion that women are somehow feckless I also thank my Auntie Carol. She is not an auntie in and irresponsible for having children, as if it had nothing the biological sense, but we all have those aunties. She to do with men, and the pervasive myth of the welfare was my modern studies teacher at school and got me queen. All of this at a time when we know that it is an interested in politics—so a lot of this is her fault, and I economic necessity to grow our population in the face thank her very much for it as well. Another woman—a of the demographic challenges ahead. I call on the very small woman—who means an awful lot to me is my Government again to scrap this policy in the Budget. It daughter Kirsty, who is six. Of all the women, she is is forcing hundreds of thousands of families into poverty certainly the most challenging. She is challenging all the and into a trap from which they cannot escape. The time, but she is very much worth the effort. Government can and should act in the upcoming Budget. We talked earlier about gender roles and the things that Other policies and practices of this UK Government people see all around them as they grow up, and those also have a disproportionate impact on women—from things are really pervasive. My daughter is not immune universal credit household payments to policies such as to them and loves those pink and sparkly things, despite no recourse to public funds, as the hon. Member for my determination to get her to do and to like other Edmonton (Kate Osamor) mentioned. Such policies things, but she is a rounded individual. She loves to cause harm and hardship. A constituent of mine who climb, she loves to clamber, and she loves getting herself was given leave to remain—case No. 3 on my books that into all kinds of bother. I was really proud that her school dates from May 2015—had no recourse to public funds. was involved in a recent UEFA and Disney advert, That means no access to the majority of social security encouraging more girls to get involved in women’sfootball. benefits, including housing benefit, income support, tax It is a great wee advert, showing the strength of the credits, child benefit and personal independence payments. girls, the teamwork, and all those positive aspects that For a single parent who is in a low-paid job to support you can get from sport. She proudly tells people that she her two children who are British citizens, that policy can has seen Scottish girls’football and Scottish boys’football, make life all but impossible. Her solicitors Latta & Co., but that the girls were better as they scored more goals. her friends and supporters, organisations such as Children The Scottish national women’s team proved that last 1st and my office provided all the support we could to night in their 3-0 victory over Ukraine. I wish them all keep her going. Weprovided her with food bank vouchers, the best of luck in the Pinatar Cup in the coming days. items from the school uniform bank and Christmas presents. Her GP wrote of the marked deleterious effect The world in which I want Kirsty to grow up should on her social, psychological and, ultimately, physical be more equal than the world that we see now, and more wellbeing. Finally, in May 2019, her “no recourse to equal than the world of her great-grandparents, her public funds” status was lifted. But of course, that is not gran and her nana, who I should mention is a WASPI the end of the journey because she then has to go about woman—one of the thousands who have been done out the process of applying for universal credit, and because of her pension. Sadly, the world that I see today is not she works she is not going to get enough money to yet that more equal world, and this UK Government survive on at the end of the month. When she was continue to pursue policies that push more women into leaving my office with her daughter after coming to pick stress, hardship and poverty. The prospects of equality up some Christmas presents, her daughter came back, do feel very far away for many women today. tapped on my door, looked up at me and said, “Alison, Along with many other women’s organisations and why have we got no money?” I have no answers for that women from across the House, I have campaigned on girl really, other than that Government policy is driving issues such as the two-child limit and the rape clause because the poverty that they are in and the Government could of their disproportionate impact on women, and, in do something about it, but I could not say that to a many cases, on ethnic minorities and religious minorities child. All she knows is that she cannot get the same as well. opportunities as her friends because of a status that her mum has been given. Last year, 510 women had to fill in a form to prove that they were raped so that they could get additional I want to talk a bit about the Home Office because it benefits. Women in abusive and coercive relationships is the source of a great deal of trauma, particularly to often become trapped because of the two-child limit. women in my constituency. My office was visited by the They rely on their spouse to provide for those children husband of a woman who had had an incredibly traumatic and they do not have enough money to survive and to birth of a premature baby and needed to receive transfusions break free. Under the terms of universal credit, those of 17 litres of blood. He wanted his mother-in-law to payments often go to the man in that relationship. come over from Pakistan to support his wife and help look after the couple’s other two children, as he was There is also evidence that women have been forced going to have to return to work after paternity leave. to terminate healthy pregnancies by a spouse because His mother-in-law is a retired housewife with no bank that child will only cost money and bring none in, which account of her own, as can be the case for older women is really disturbing. There was a report in The Times today in Pakistan and here. Of course, the Home Office that 24%—almost a quarter—of pregnancies in England refused her application, not believing that she would and Wales ended in abortion in 2018. I fully support a return to her home and extended family in Pakistan. woman’s right to choose, but no woman should be Her son is the only family she has in this country, so forced into that decision through poverty. Clare Murphy other than looking after her grandchildren, she had no of the British Pregnancy Advisory Service said: reason to stay. All she wanted to do was visit her family, “In recent years, we’ve seen an increasingly cautious approach but that was not possible because of the lack of compassion to family size, which is likely to be driven by a host of factors and understanding of the Home Office. There was no ranging from the two-child limit…to uncertainty about Brexit.” appeal process because she was applying for a visitor visa, 1061 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1062 so the family just have to apply again and hope that the Very powerful testimony was given by Claire Muirhead, Home Office might look kindly on her application next who is in sustained recovery after 16 years of heroin time, even though her circumstances will not have not addiction. She spoke of the power of whole-family changed. recovery. She is now back in communication with her The way in which the Home Office goes about things family and has a good relationship with her child. She is extremely troubling. Some time ago, I accompanied a said that treatment helped her to stop using drugs, but constituent to an immigration tribunal. The woman the recovery community helped her to build the connections was gay; she had come here when she was married, and afterwards. That is hugely important. We cannot think had separated from her husband once she was here and that people have treatment and then they are done, felt safe. She had gone through the immigration system because we find that that is often not the case. We need for quite some time, trying to make appeals to claim to have these recovery communities right around people. asylum, because she had absolutely no doubt that she They have been incredibly powerful in Scotland. would suffer persecution if she was sent back to the Claire Muirhead also called on the UK Government country she was from, given that she had already had to stop criminalising people who use drugs, because extremely traumatic experiences in that country. Here, that makes it very difficult for them to get the help that my constituent was forced to provide a series of witnesses they need. That is particularly the case for women who to prove and give testimony to her sexuality. Now, I am risk losing everything—losing their children and losing not sure that I could provide six different people to their whole lives—because of drugs. The barriers put in testify to my sexuality if I had to, but that is what she place by the criminality of using drugs put women at was asked to do. She was asked to provide a range of risk. She also very clearly called on the UK Government different people, who were asked, “What is your opinion to implement drug consumption rooms, because they of my client’s sexuality?” are an easy way of people getting access to support At one stage, the Home Office lawyer in the room services,getting into treatment, and getting out of situations questioned her integrity by saying, “She lied to her where they are using drugs in very dangerous and risky husband and her family when she came here, so she situations. They can get help, support and treatment, must be lying to people here today.” The judge at the and get into recovery. immigration tribunal, to his absolute credit, intervened I pay tribute to FASS—Family Addiction Support on that lawyer and said, “I’m not having that, because Service—in Glasgow, which has some incredibly strong this happens in life.” He had friends who had come out women. Some of them have had multiple traumas in in later life, and knew that it was not unusual in society. their lives due to drug addiction, but they work incredibly But the Home Office decided to put that woman through hard to make sure that no other families suffer in the the mill to prove her sexuality so that she could get to same way as they have. stay here. Home Office Ministers should reflect on how that feels, and sit in on some immigration tribunals so Jess Phillips: The hon. Lady is making an incredibly that they know what is going on in their Department. powerful speech. I echo the demands she makes on the Government. I have personally recognised both in my Women’s access to education is also compromised by own life and in my constituency that when somebody the way in which the universal credit system works. I has a drug addiction, it is almost always the women in have a constituent who was in teacher training and also the family of that addict who end up taking a huge has a five-year-old child. She is trying to better herself amount of the burden and pain. Does she agree that we and improve her situation in life, but due to the way in should not simply see these people in isolation, but as which universal credit interacts with student loans, and part of a much broader community that we should the cost of after-school care for her child, she has ended want to help? up in rent arrears and has had to suspend her studies. The UK Government need to give much greater Alison Thewliss: The hon. Lady speaks from great consideration as to how women are supported and experience, and she is absolutely correct. I know from encouraged, rather than made to feel that life is just far, people working in some communities that some women far too difficult because their lives are seen as too rack up huge debts to try to pay off drug debts. They complicated to fit into a system such as universal credit. put themselves at risk by trying to do everything they Mary Beard says: can do to support their family members. We should “You cannot easily fit women into a structure that is already think of and pay tribute to all of them as well. coded as male; you have to change the structure.” Glasgow Women’s Library in my constituency is a Drugs death is an issue that I have campaigned on, wonderful organisation and an absolute beacon. I thank but I have not talked very much about its disproportionate it for the work that it does in the community, and also impact on women. Last week, I attended the Scottish for its work around ESOL classes, which help to support Government’s and Glasgow City Council’s drugs death women with the English language skills that can often summit. I was not permitted to attend to the UK help to bring them into wider society and make wider Government’s drugs death summit, despite the fact that connections. it was in my constituency and on an issue I was interested The hon. Member for Brent Central (Dawn Butler), in—but I will leave that just now. In 2018, 327 of the who spoke for the official Opposition, mentioned that 1,187 people who died were women, the majority of smaller countries in the world have the greatest equality whom were over the age of 35. These are vulnerable in their populations. I do not see that as an accident. In women suffering trauma on trauma—abuse of all kinds—in small, independent countries, people have the closeness their history as children and as adults. They have had to each other, and closeness to their Government, that the stigma of having children taken from them, perhaps enables them to tackle inequality because it is not so far not once but multiple times. They need particular help away from any of them, and because they have the full and support. powers of such countries. For us in the SNP, that is 1063 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1064

[Alison Thewliss] wearing a onesie made of meat going into a piranha tank is cringeworthy and not something I would like to no coincidence. We would very much like to see Scotland imagine! But I recognise that that is the case for women having full powers over our economy so that we can in politics, as a woman and a shadow Minister who is then use those levers to make sure that inequality is often abused on social media and feels like the person ended for good. wearing that onesie in a piranha tank. That is our reality in politics. As the right hon. Member for Romsey 3.28 pm and Southampton North said, we have lost a great deal Naz Shah (Bradford West) (Lab): It is an honour to of good women from this House. I thank her for follow the hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison honouring them; we must do so during this debate. Thewliss), who made a passionate speech. This is the I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Edmonton first time I have closed a debate, and it is an honour to (Kate Osamor) for her passionate speech about the close this debate in particular, because women and the issue of having no recourse to public funds. I attended issue of women’s inequality have shaped my life. The the inaugural meeting of that all-party parliamentary room is full of emotion, and it is a privilege to be here. I group, for which I was grateful. I heard at first hand the thank the Government for holding this debate in their experiences of those young people, including the one time. It is usually a Backbench Business debate, but it is she mentioned, who talked about the impact that the right that this forms part of the mainstream business of 10-year route to immigration has on a child. As a the House and that we recognise the contribution of mother to a teenager, I cannot imagine a 15-year-old women internationally, nationally and closer to home in having the anxiety of thinking about doing something our constituencies. that will give her a criminal record and put her on the The former Minister for Immigration, the right hon. next plane back to where she came from, instead of Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline doing her GCSEs and just being a young person going Nokes), talked about intersectionality and highlighted through life, as our children and every child should be her efforts to end FGM, for which I thank her. It is able to. I learnt a great deal from that, and I thank her. really important to remember the issues that affect our Toturn again to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central, shores. It was horrifying to hear that somebody described it is always heart wrenching when we mention personal FGM as just a piece of flesh being cut. stories. I have done it in this House, as have many I would like to extend an advance “happy birthday” others, and no matter how much practice we put in, it to the hon. Member for Glasgow North East does choke us up. It takes extra bravery and it really (Anne McLaughlin) for Sunday,which is also International does take it out of us. I thank her for sharing that story, Women’s Day. I admire her outfit, which has come all which was so personal to her. the way from Malawi, and thank her for sharing that As the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member with us. for Brent Central (Dawn Butler) said in her speech, I thank the right hon. Member for Basingstoke there is an issue about structures in government and in (Mrs Miller) for all she has done. I congratulate the society that we really need to address. The Labour party right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton North is a party of equality, committed to achieving a world on her appointment as Chair of the Women and Equalities free from all forms of bigotry and discrimination. Whether Committee—she has a big set of shoes to fill, following campaigning on the streets or passing legislation in the work done in the last five years, for which Members government, Labour is the only party consistently to on both sides of the House are grateful. stand with women. I know that today is about women In the Tea Room earlier, I asked my Labour sister, from across the parties coming together, but the truth is my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley that 85% of the burden of 10 years of austerity and cuts (Jess Phillips), how many tears I would have to hold has disproportionately fallen on the shoulders of women. back when she reads the names of the women we have This year marks the 50th anniversary of the Equal lost in the last year. It never fails to move people here Pay Act 1970, yet women still earn 13% less than men. I and beyond. I thank her and Karen for compiling that was proud to march with Samira Ahmed at her tribunal list, because I cannot begin to imagine what a task that case against the BBC, because when women do the is. It is right that that has become a tradition in the same work as men, why should we be paid any less? House, and I am grateful for it. That is why a Labour Government would take action to I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar close the gender pay gap by 2030. Our call for equal pay and Limehouse (Apsana Begum) on her maiden speech. would not just be warm words; we would legislate by I have learnt a lot more about Poplar and Limehouse—I making gender pay equality the state’s responsibility. was not aware that “Call the Midwife” had been filmed Women also face life challenges in the workplace, there. She is a credit to the people of Poplar and which is why Labour has campaigned and will continue Limehouse, and I am sure that this is the beginning of a campaigning for flexible working hours, working from long and successful voice here in the House for her home and the introduction of a menopause workplace constituents.As a fellow Muslim woman, I also congratulate policy to break the stigma associated with the menopause, her on being the first woman in a hijab to represent her as part of our party’s wider plans to transform the constituency in this great House. workplace for women—and rightly so. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury Each International Women’s Day we are reminded by (Rosie Duffield) for her passionate speech. The last time my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley I heard her speak, equally passionately, it was about her of the tragic lives lost to domestic abuse. I thank her for own experiences of domestic violence, when we discussed her invitation to join the all-party group on domestic the Domestic Abuse Bill; I recall that like it was yesterday. violence and abuse. These women are not statistics—I I do not know about anybody else, but the idea of have said this before—but real people. I absolutely 1065 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1066 welcome the Domestic Abuse Bill put forward by the to stand up for change and fight for equality because of Government, but it needs to go so much further by the likes of Mary Wollstonecraft, Emmeline Pankhurst, protecting all women. During the all-party group meeting, Rosa Parks and Benazir Bhutto, as well as Oprah we had a discussion and were able to show the Minister Winfrey in the modern day. For many across society, the that migrant women do not fare well in the Domestic women in this Chamber will be their inspiration. I could Abuse Bill. I encourage Ministers to look at that. go on listing inspirational women leaders who have not As I speak about the importance of the legislative only made a positive contribution to society, but have change that we need to make to improve the lives of motivated, inspired and enlightened generations of women women in this country, I do not just say it—I genuinely to do the same. But these women were and are inspirational mean it. There was a time when my life was defined by not only for women but for men, too. black bin liners, because that is how I used to move Let me say who also inspires me to stand up as a home. I was the daughter of a victim of domestic abuse British Muslim woman. He is the man who in 1935 was who served 14 years in prison, and she went to prison honoured by the US Supreme Court as one of the because she could no longer handle the abuse and killed greatest law-givers of the world. His name is Muhammed, the partner who abused her. That was where my real and he is the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him. journey into politics started—when I raised my brother Despite what many may attribute or claim, he motivates and sister, who were teenagers, while moving from and inspires—and he inspires me and empowers me to home to home. When I talk about my story, I share with stand up as a British Muslim woman. He came to the people a slide with literally two black bin liners, whether world at a time when the most basic right to life of in relation to my forced marriage, having to live in women was being denied, and in a matter of years he poverty or having experienced homelessness. transformed a society that degraded, chastised and My standing here today to make a closing statement murdered women to one that empowered them with not on International Women’s Day tells us—this is the only a right to life, but property rights, marital rights, message that it really brings home to me—that for my inheritance rights, voting rights and democratic rights, sisters and my daughters, and for women in this country and the rights of honour and of dignity and liberty. and beyond, there is hope. However, we have made so I say that because, in 2020, International Women’s much progress, but we have so much further to go. Day must not be an isolated occasion for only women Despite all the progress, what I will not do once I have to fight for women. I know there are stories of powerful made it out of the struggles that I once faced is close the fathers empowering their daughters, of husbands being door on others. Neither will I pull up the ladder behind the shoulders for their wives, and of sons being guided me when it comes to the fights that are still fought by by the light of their mothers—and I cannot forget women who look like me and believe like me. brothers, for my sons right now, my eight-year-old and The theme of this year’s International Women’s Day 12-year-old, have to give up their space because my is “Each for Equal”. Therefore, today I also say that, daughter is preparing for her GCSEs and doing her although having women Prime Ministers, women in mock exams; they have to sacrifice and support her. We Cabinet and even over 50% of Labour MPs being women have to fight this fight together. Issues of women’s equality —and 51% in our parliamentary Labour party—is a are as much a matter for men as for women, because we huge achievement that must not be overlooked, the all have a moral obligation to tackle injustice. Just as we fight must go on, with women showing solidarity to all do not have to be black to get racism, we do not have to women, including those from BAME backgrounds. be a woman to get misogyny and be a feminist. I know that the misogynists, xenophobes and If recent history has taught us anything it is that you Islamophobes will be lurking and waiting to attack can be Princess Meghan Markle, but if you are a person another woman of colour for speaking out today, but I of colour you will unfairly and disproportionately be also know that standing by my side in this Chamber targeted for literally being who you are; you can win and outside,I will have the powerful shoulders of sisterhood. “The Great British Bake Off”, like the inspirational So I have decided, on this International Women’s Day: I Nadiya Hussain, but you will also be disproportionately will say it; we will say it; she will say it. targeted by hatemongers. Although the Women and Equalities Committee 3.44 pm published a report in 2015 highlighting the triple-whammy Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con): It is an honour faced by women who were of colour and Muslim, the to close this debate, and I thank every Member who has reality is that little has changed in that triple penalty of attended to raise issues, highlight successes and reflect misogyny, xenophobia and Islamophobia faced by these how much women have contributed and will continue women in their daily lives. In fact, some women now to contribute to our country and the rest of the world. feel their hijab should be removed for their personal There have been some fantastic speeches—too many safety, and others who choose to wear other garments for me to mention them all, so I will highlight just a few. have had the most powerful man in this country legitimise My hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire hate towards them by referring to their personal choices (Mrs Latham) made the local connection with Florence as making them look like letterboxes and bank robbers. Nightingale—a personal heroine of mine, as a fellow I mention this because some women have become more nurse—and her groundbreaking work. Today we find acceptable to target than others, and that is why I say ourselves following the strict hand-washing rules that that all women should come together to stand and fight she set out many years ago. The hon. Member for for those most marginalised. There is no hierarchy in Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum) made a fantastic misogyny. maiden speech. It is such an honour that she chose this However,although I say all women must come together, debate to make it in. We can already see that she will be this fight is not just for women to fight alone. Like many a force to reckon with in this place and will keep the east women in this House and outside, I have been inspired end firmly on the map. 1067 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1068

[Maria Caulfield] really positive role model for our young women of today, demonstrating that this Government come from My constituency neighbour,my hon. Friend the Member all walks of life. for Eastbourne (Caroline Ansell), highlighted what a International Women’s Day is primarily a day of hard-working local MP she is by bringing up Langney celebration, and we have heard speeches that offer a Primary School and its equality day. As she pointed huge amount of hope for the future, and demonstrate out, she is Eastbourne’s first woman MP—again. The that in many areas we are making real progress towards hon. Member for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield) talked a fairer society. As my right hon. Friend the Member about the effect that misogyny can have and the piranha for Basingstoke and the shadow Minister, the hon. tank of social media, which, to be fair, we have all Member for Bradford West (Naz Shah), pointed out, it experienced. My hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock is right that this is debated in Government time. However, (Jackie Doyle-Price) highlighted how few men have come we have also heard appalling details of inequality from to support this debate; we hope to see more next year. a number of speakers and clear evidence of the prejudices However, as she pointed out in her rather sassy speech, that women and girls still face. we could do just fine without them. I note, however, that the male members of the Whips Office—who are We were all moved, as we are every year, by the here to support me, I think—have appeared on the Bench. speech from the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips), and it is tragic that the number of women Like many hon. Members, my hon. Friend the Member killed by domestic violence has increased this year. The for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond) highlighted the Government are serious about tackling this and I am plight of human rights defenders in other countries pleased that only this week, we reintroduced our landmark who find themselves in prison for doing the simple Domestic Abuse Bill, which includes a number of changes things that we take for granted in this country. The hon. to the Bill that was introduced in the last Parliament. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Those include a new duty on tier 1 local authorities in Johnson) asked a number of questions, particularly England to provide support to domestic abuse victims about Iranian prisoners. This morning the Leader of and their children in refuges and other safe accommodation, the House announced that there may be some positive and we continue to progress the non-legislative work to news on that, but I hope the hon. Lady does not mind if support the Bill as it comes forward. I speak to the Foreign Secretary and get back to her The shadow Minister touched on finance around the about the particular Foreign Office issues that she raised. Bill. The Government have committed £100 million of There are so many great advocates for equality of funding to combat violence against women and girls, opportunity and treatment of women in this Chamber, including £20 million for domestic abuse, and are piloting and I thank them all for their excellent work. As the an integrated domestic abuse court to support victims. Minister for Women and Equalities said in her opening The Government are also taking seriously the need to remarks, the theme for International Women’s Day is help victims of domestic abuse, female genital mutilation, “Each for Equal”, through which women want to achieve forced marriage and stalking. I congratulate my right a gender-equal world. We are making progress right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton here in Parliament. We all have our own views about the North (Caroline Nokes) on her work on FGM when result of the general election a few short months ago, she was a Minister. She is right—it is child abuse and it but we have all mentioned how delighted we are to have is illegal. more women MPs in this place than ever before. There There were questions from a number of Members on are now 220 women MPs in Parliament—34% of the the Istanbul convention, and I reassure them that the total, up from 22% in 2010. Although that is not the Government remain committed to ratifying the convention height of our ambition for the number of female MPs, as soon as possible. The Domestic Abuse Bill contains it shows that we are making progress. the necessary measures to satisfy the convention’s requirements in respect of ensuring that the criminal I agree with my right hon. Friend the Member for courts in England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) that although we have made have the required extraterritorial jurisdiction over certain progress in getting more female candidates, we have violent and sexual offences, as required by article 44. more work to do in retaining excellent female MPs. We The Northern Ireland Minister for Justice has also lost far too many from all sides at the last election. As announced her intention to bring before the Assembly my right hon. Friend rightly said, all MPs have the legislation that would criminalise psychological violence responsibility to play our part. in Northern Ireland, as required by article 33. Had the I am proud to stand at the Dispatch Box as an general election not come late last year, we would be far example of what the Prime Minister has named “the further down the line in ratifying the Istanbul convention. people’s Government”—a Government more reflective I hope that Members will agree that the Government of the people they serve—and the second female in my are absolutely committed to making sure that that family to have worked in the House of Commons. My happens. aunt worked as a waitress in the Members’ Dining I recognise that Members have identified a range of Room back in the ’60s, when there were just 26 female issues that negatively impact on women in the workplace. MPs and someone from my background would never We are developing further guidance to support employers have made it as an MP. I am standing at this Dispatch to prevent sexual harassment in the workplace. I am Box today only because I am covering for the feisty and proud to say that this week the whole Whips Office took inspirational Minister for Equalities, my hon. Friend part in Parliament’s Valuing Everyone training, which the Member for Saffron Walden (Kemi Badenoch), who covers sexual harassment in the workplace. If right hon. is on maternity leave. Before entering this place, she and hon. Members have not undertaken the training I worked in engineering, as a financier and in journalism—a urge them to do so, as we all have a responsibility to do 1069 International Women’s Day5 MARCH 2020 International Women’s Day 1070 our part in calling it out and preventing sexual harassment I am proud to have been part of the debate that has in the workplace. There is a waiting list for the training, taken place here today. I thank every Member of the so please do put your name forward as soon as possible. House who has participated. It is evident that there is The Government are also serious about tackling the more to be done at home and abroad, but we know we gender pay gap, which a number of Members mentioned. are going in the right direction. As we mark International This Conservative Government brought in the regulations Women’s Day this week, it is right that we celebrate our back in 2017. The gender pay gap is at a record low of achievements and look at how far we have come. With 17.3%. Reporting for this year is due in March and more women in work than ever before, including more April and I hope that we will see a further improvement. at the very top than ever before, we can be proud of the I remind Members, however, that equal pay has been a progress of the past 12 months. Britain has long been a legal requirement since 1970. Last year, we made a world leader in championing equality of treatment and commitment to review the enforcement of the equal pay opportunity, both at home and abroad. legislation, and I hope that we see an improvement from Fifty years ago, the introduction of the Equal Pay companies around the country as the figures on the Act in the United Kingdom turned on its head outdated gender pay gap are published. ideas of what a woman’s role can be. Today women are competing alongside men in all sorts of arenas that Mrs Miller: My hon. Friend is making a really strong were once considered the sole preserve of men, whether speech and I congratulate her on that. The hon. Member they be engineers, para commanders or, indeed, darts for Bradford West (Naz Shah), who spoke for the players. Mr Deputy Speaker, as this may be my one and Opposition, said that equal pay should legally be a only appearance at the Dispatch Box, I am going to be matter for the Government, but it already is. We already cheeky and use an excellent example from my own have that legislation, so does my hon. Friend agree that constituency of Lewes. Lewes football club—I declare it is a matter of enforcement? That is the role of the an interest as a community shareholder—has led the Equality and Human Rights Commission and it should world in being the first ever football club to pay its be doing more of it. female footballers the same as its men. I am proud of all the progress we have seen, and now Maria Caulfield: I thank my right hon. Friend for that the UK has left the European Union I am determined that intervention. She is right; it is already law and we that it will continue to blaze a trail for the empowerment need to enforce it to ensure that it absolutely happens. of women and girls and to celebrate their successes all The Government continue to show leadership in multiple over the world. I strongly believe that greater freedom forums such as the United Nations, the Commonwealth, to pursue our own future as a country will be better for the G7, the G20, the OECD and the Council of Europe, all of us and that when we break down barriers that as well as in our bold initiatives such as the international people face in the workplace, society and different parts LGBT conference, which we are proud to be running in of the country will benefit. May. It is clear from what we have heard in the House I personally welcome one of the Prime Minister’s top today that we all share the commitment to change and priorities that girls around the world should receive to working together to ensure that no one is held back 12 years of quality education, tackling the obstacles because of their sex or any other factor. In this country, that girls and young women face across the world, whoever we are and wherever we come from, we will which was so eloquently highlighted by my hon. Friend have the opportunities to challenge outdated ways of the Member for Meon Valley. The Government are also doing things, set new records and fulfil our full potential, committed to creating a society that works for everyone. inspiring the next generation of girls, whose success The female employment rate is at a near record high of simply cannot depend on anything other than their 72.4% and just under 2 million more women are in work skills, ambition and determination. since 2010. Wecontinue to support families with childcare With that, Madam Deputy Speaker, I wish everyone costs, and the Government have invested £6.6 million to a happy International Women’s Day this Sunday. support carers to remain in or to return to work. The Question put and agreed to. Government will be bringing forward a plan for social care this year to introduce a dedicated entitlement to Resolved, leave for unpaid carers of one week per year alongside That this House has considered International Women’s Day. existing employment rights. 1071 5 MARCH 2020 WHO Framework Convention on 1072 Tobacco Control WHO Framework Convention on I hope that my hon. Friend the Minister will echo our Tobacco Control hon. Friend’s words and restate the Government’s commitment to protecting public health from Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House “commercial and other vested interests of tobacco companies”, do now adjourn.—(Michael Tomlinson.) in line with the UK’s obligation under article 5.3 of the 3.59 pm framework convention on tobacco control. Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con): Let me begin by Last week it was also announced in new projections thanking Mr Speaker for allowing me to hold this from Cancer Research UK, which does such brilliant debate, and thanking the Government and all those work in not only combating the evils of cancer but who contributed to the previous debate for enabling us highlighting ways in which people can avoid it, that to have a long Adjournment debate to which other unless we speed up the rate of change, we will not hit Members can contribute. I trust that you will be able to the Government’s smoke-free ambition by 2030 but in recognise them when they rise, Madam Deputy Speaker. 2037—seven years later—which will mean many more The United Kingdom has been a world leader in avoidable deaths. Funding is needed to deliver the further tobacco control for many years, and we have made great action that will help to ensure that we achieve a smoke-free progress in reducing smoking rates. The latest figures 2030, and the APPG on smoking and health has said in show that adult smoking has declined to a low of its last two reports that that funding should come from 14.4% in England and 14.7% in the UK as a whole. legislation forcing the tobacco industry to pay for the However, as we celebrate International Women’s Day damage that its products do, in line with our obligations on Sunday, it is fair to say that the one target on which under the framework convention on tobacco control. we have been extremely challenged is persuading pregnant This “polluter pays” approach is used by the United women to stop smoking. I trust that my hon. Friend the States,which raises a fixed sum from tobacco manufacturers Minister will be able to enlighten us on other measures to fund its tobacco control activity. I hope that proposal that the Government will take to encourage that. It is will be included in the Government’s response to equally fair to say that the health inequalities that exist consultation on the prevention Green Paper, “Advancing across the UK are exacerbated by the number of people our health: prevention in the 2020s”, which we keenly on low incomes who continue to smoke. anticipate. The Government have consistently implemented a The tobacco industry has a long history of subverting comprehensive approach to tobacco control, from the regulations design to protect public health. To prevent point of sale display ban and the prohibition on smoking this,the World Health Organisation’sframework convention in cars with children to standardised tobacco packaging. on tobacco control states: All those measures have helped to drive down smoking “In setting and implementing their public health policies with rates and discourage young people from starting to respect to tobacco control, Parties shall act to protect these smoke. Last month, yet again, the UK was rated best in policies from commercial and other vested interests of the tobacco industry in accordance with national law.” Europe for our comprehensive tobacco control strategy, and as we have now left the European Union, we want This includes rejecting all partnerships and non-binding no backsliding from that performance. The welcome or non-enforceable agreements with the tobacco industry. ambition set in last year’s prevention Green Paper is to However, leaked papers revealed last week show yet end smoking in England by 2030. It requires us to build another attempt by Philip Morris International to subvert on that comprehensive strategy, and to go further in public health policies. It proposes setting up a tobacco reducing smoking prevalence. At this point, I must declare transition fund, which would provide £1 billion over my interest as chairman of the all-party parliamentary 10 years in return for the lifting of laws restricting group on smoking and health. e-cigarette advertising and a loosening of the ban on advertising of its heated tobacco products. This deal is Last week it was revealed that the tobacco industry is an attempt by Philip Morris to ensure that it is able to attempting to undermine this comprehensive approach. promote its new heated tobacco product, IQOS, in Leaked documents that appeared in The Guardian—not countries where the cigarette market is shrinking, such a publication that I normally read—and in the “Dispatches” as the UK. programme showed that Philip Morris International, the maker of Marlboro cigarettes, is attempting to buy Philip Morris insists that IQOS is aimed at adult influence by offering no less than £1 billion over 10 years smokers, but the US Food and Drug Administration in return for a relaxing of the current advertising ban has concluded that it is just as addictive as smoking. In on its heated tobacco products, enabling it to market its other words, it will be as easy to get addicted to, and new IQOS tobacco product in cinemas, online, and at just as difficult to quit, IQOS as smoking. The evidence the point of sale. is that more than two thirds of those who try smoking This latest cynical attempt by Philip Morris International go on to become daily smokers, and on average, smokers to influence UK health policies follows attempts that it try to quit 30 times before succeeding. Relaxing the made in 2018 to partner with NHS trusts. On that advertising restrictions on heated tobacco products, as occasion, the then Public Health Minister, my hon. proposed by Philip Morris, would enable advertising of Friend the Member for Winchester (Steve Brine), said: IQOS to reach children and young people, ensuring future consumers of its products even while smoking “Our aim to make our NHS—and our next generation—smoke- free must be completely separate from the commercial and vested rates decline. interests of the tobacco industry.” It is not only Philip Morris International that is He went on to say: attempting to buy influence with Governments; other “Philip Morris International will be well aware that its actions tobacco companies are doing so. In 2018, The Observer are entirely inappropriate and we will be contacting all NHS revealed that British American Tobacco, despite being trusts to remind them of their obligations.” aware that article 5.3 of the WHO framework convention 1073 WHO Framework Convention on 5 MARCH 2020 WHO Framework Convention on 1074 Tobacco Control Tobacco Control applies to local authorities, had been attempting to as well. I hope that she will tell us this evening when we partner with councils. The UK Government have been can expect the Government’s response, and that the independently assessed as being the Government who response will set out the “further proposals” outlined in are most successful in resisting tobacco industry interference the Green Paper to drive down smoking prevalence and and living up to their article 5.3 obligations, yet the ensure that we reach a smoke-free Britain in 2030. industry continues to try to find new ways to get a seat If tobacco manufacturers are offering to give the at the table, and the tobacco transition fund is just the Government £1 billion as part of a corporate social latest attempt, with a bribe of £1 billion attached. responsibility public relations exercise, the industry clearly Will the Minister restate the Government’scommitment has the money to pay for the tobacco control measures to protecting our public health policies from the interests that are needed to mitigate the harm that it causes. The of tobacco companies, in line with our legal obligations all-party parliamentary group on smoking and health as a party to the WHO’s tobacco control policy? Will has advocated for the application of the “polluter pays” she further ensure that her colleagues in Government principle, making the industry pay for the damage that are aware of the UK’s legal obligations not to partner its products do. As the Green Paper highlighted, the US or enter into agreements with the tobacco industry? and France have both adopted this approach to funding The prevention Green Paper acknowledges, on tobacco tobacco control. The mechanism to raise revenue from control, that reaching the smoke-free 2030 target will be tobacco manufacturers could be established based on “extremely challenging”. This was highlighted last week, the powers set out in the National Health Service Act in projections published by Cancer Research UK, which 2006 that are already used for the pharmaceutical price showed that at the current rate of progress, we will not regulation scheme. meet our 5% smoke-free ambition until 2037. That is Such a fund could pay for the evidence-based measures largely due to inequalities, as I mentioned. While the least needed to achieve a smoke-free 2030. Those measures deprived communities in England will reach the 5% could include—this list is not exclusive—public education target by 2025, the most deprived communities are not campaigns. Funding for these campaigns has consistently projected to reach smoke-free until the mid-2040s—a decreased. In 2019, for example,there was no TV advertising 20-year difference, and of course, a great number of for the Stoptober campaign, and this year there was no lives unnecessarily lost. I am sure that the hon. Member January health harms campaign to encourage smokers for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) will mention to make a new year’s resolution to attempt to quit that in his contribution. smoking. Providing a source of revenue for local tobacco That difference in smoking prevalence translates into control measures, including enforcement activity and substantial health inequalities, with smoking being the the provision of support to smokers seeking to quit, leading cause of the nine-year gap in life expectancy would also definitely help. Funding for trading standards between rich and poor. Reducing smoking rates will has fallen substantially in recent years, from £213 million make the single largest contribution to achieving the in 2010 to £124 million in 2016. The National Audit Government’s ageing society grand challenge, and further Office estimates that the number of full-time equivalent action is desperately needed to address this inequalities trading standards staff has decreased by 56% in seven gap. Reducing the uptake and prevalence of smoking years. among young people will be key to achieving a smoke-free Wecould also have regional tobacco control programmes. generation. Smoking rates among young people have In the five years from 2012 to 2017, areas with a regional declined rapidly in recent years, but there is no guarantee programme had an average percentage point decline of that this will continue to be the case without further 5.1, compared with 4 in the rest of the country, yet action from the Government. The sad reality is that funding for those programmes has been cut as the 280 children take up smoking every day in England. public health grant allocations to local authorities have This provides a strong case for further action. Interventions reduced. Establishing an initiative such as a smoke-free such as public education campaigns, enforcement of 2030 fund is also popular, with 72% of the public age-of-sale regulations and greater tax rises—yes, a supporting making tobacco manufacturers pay a levy Tory is calling for extra tax rises—are effective in reducing or licence fee to the Government for measures to help youth uptake, but sustainable funding is needed to smokers to quit and to prevent youth uptake. achieve this. Given the urgent need to increase the rate of decline The Government were due to respond to the prevention in smoking prevalence and the further measures needed Green Paper consultation on 6 January. Two months to achieve that, will the Government commit to consult on, a response setting out further proposals to increase on legislation to create a smoke-free 2030 fund? Given the rate of decline in smoking prevalence is urgently that we have the Budget next week, will the Minister needed. I know that we have had a Government reshuffle, lobby our right hon. Friend the Chancellor to introduce but I am glad that the Minister survived it. I think that such a fund? this is probably her first response to a debate on smoking, but I hope that she can set out some of the plans she has Further measurers could be taken. The prevention to achieve this aim. Green Paper made the commitment: The range of measures that I hope the Government “Further proposals for moving towards a smoke-free 2030 will are considering are set out in a wonderful document be set out at a later date.” named “Roadmap to a Smokefree 2030”, which was In the absence of a response to the Green Paper endorsed by the all-party parliamentary group on smoking consultation, I hope that the Minister will reassure the and health and by 68 other organisations. We will be House that her Department is working on the proposals launching the document in Parliament on 28 April 2020, and that they include the measures set out in the APPG’s and I extend an invitation to my hon. Friend the Minister report “Delivering the vision of a ‘Smokefree Generation’”, to attend that event, where I hope she will address us which I am sure she has read. 1075 WHO Framework Convention on 5 MARCH 2020 WHO Framework Convention on 1076 Tobacco Control Tobacco Control [Bob Blackman] There are around 23,000 smokers in my Stockton North constituency, and 60% of them want to quit. Reducing the affordability of tobacco is highly effective Sadly, due to cuts to Stockton Council’s budget and to in reducing smoking rates and can be achieved through budgets across the north-east, councils in the area have a combination of tax increases and enforcement activity cut stop smoking services by 10% in just two years. I to reduce the size of the illicit market. We know that will come back to that later. affordability has the most impact on those who are the Requiring tobacco manufacturers to pay into the most price sensitive: young people and poorer smokers— smoke-free 2030 fund mentioned by the hon. Gentleman cheap and illicit tobacco is disproportionately bought would provide sustainable funding to motivate the smokers by poorer smokers. Reducing affordability will encourage in my constituency who want to quit, or who want to people to quit smoking. give quitting a go, and would fund the specialist support Next week my right hon. Friend the Chancellor of for those who need it. That would be the correct way the Exchequer will set out his first Budget. I hope to forward, and it would provide the necessary transparency hear that the tax escalator on manufactured cigarettes without the likes of PMI being given free rein to dictate will be reintroduced for this Parliament. The escalator or influence public policy. should be increased from 2% to 5% above inflation, to I pay tribute to successive Governments for making help pay for the measures to combat smoking. I also tremendous progress. We had the smoke-free pubs and hope to see a further increase for hand-rolled tobacco, restaurants under Labour, and of course we have had because the price differential between manufactured the point-of-sale stuff under recent Conservative cigarettes and hand-rolled tobacco means that people, Governments. That all plays a part, but the extent to particularly those on lower incomes, are more likely to which smoking is reducing has continually slowed down hand-roll, and obviously they would continue to do so and we need to accelerate it again. rather than quit. An additional tax increase above inflation would avoid that. Although this is a national issue, I will be parochial Since 2000, Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has this afternoon and outline the challenge we face in my implemented a well-funded and effective strategy that part of the world. In Stockton-on-Tees, 16.4% of the has reduced the size of the illicit market, but the UK population smoke,compared with 16% across the north-east has now ratified the illicit trade protocol of the framework and an English average of 14.4%. Some 17.7% of women convention on tobacco control and implemented tracking are smokers when their babies are delivered, compared and tracing of cigarettes under the requirements of the with a national average of 10.6%, and that has significant tobacco products directive. I am sure that Ministers implications for stillbirths, neonatal deaths and birth agree that, now that we have left the European Union, it weight. is an appropriate time for HMRC to review and refresh Those statistics hide the reality of what is happening that strategy, and I hope that the Minister will comment in my constituency.In my inner-city wards, the prevalence on that in her response. of smoking, including during pregnancy, is much higher. As I said at the start of my speech, the ambition to Our leafy suburbs and nicer areas—perhaps I should end smoking in England by 2030 is laudable and I say more affluent areas—bring down the average to that strongly endorse it—as, I trust, do the majority of lower level of 16.4%. I do not know of many households Members—but there are clear risks that we will not in the town centre ward of my constituency in which achieve that without further action and sustained funding. people do not smoke, which is a terrible situation. We The latest attempts by Philip Morris International to need targeted support for them. influence Government health policies and to roll back The prevalence of smoking among adults in my area current regulation show once again that the industry with serious mental health illnesses is 40%, which is cannot be trusted, and the Government must continue actually slightly below the English average of 40.5%, but to uphold our strong commitment to article 5.3. it still needs to be tackled. In 2018-19, there were 2,780 Philip Morris International’s proposal to provide smoking-attributable hospital admissions in Stockton- £1 billion over 10 years shows that the tobacco industry on-Tees, which is a rate of 2,474 per 100,000 of population, clearly has the money to pay for the harm it causes. The notably above the English average of 1,612. public support making the industry pay through legislation From 2016 to 2018, 1,013 deaths in Stockton-on-Tees to create a fund that would be used to support existing were attributable to smoking, which is also significantly smokers to quit and to prevent uptake among young above the English average. There were 398 deaths from people. There is clearly an urgent need for the Government lung cancer and 325 deaths from chronic obstructive to set out further proposals to help us reach a smoke-free pulmonary disease, and over 80% of those disease cases England by 2030, and I hope that today the Minister are caused by smoking. Again, from 2016 to 2018 there will confirm that we can expect the imminent publication were 23 smoking-attributable stillbirths in Stockton-on-Tees, of the Government’s response to the prevention Green which is above the per population average. Paper consultation. I have talked about the more affluent areas of Stockton- 4.18 pm on-Tees, and the smoking rate among people in managerial Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab): I am pleased and professional occupations is 9.3%. The rate rises to to have this unexpected opportunity to speak in this 11.7% among people in intermediate-level occupations important debate, and I congratulate the hon. Member and to 23.1% among people in routine and manual for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) on securing it. My occupations. Men are more likely to smoke than women, politics and his are far apart, but we are brothers in the with a smoking rate of 17% compared with 13%. cause of eradicating smoking. I pay tribute to his work We have much to do if we are to do this, and we have as chair of the APPG and am pleased to serve as his to do it right, without allowing tobacco companies to vice-chair. play the sort of role proposed by PMI, because this is 1077 WHO Framework Convention on 5 MARCH 2020 WHO Framework Convention on 1078 Tobacco Control Tobacco Control an issue of health inequality. A smoking rate of 16.4% recognition of its bid to influence public policy; I also in my constituency compares with 8.3% in mid-Suffolk, want to hear what the Government are now going to do, where the Minister’s constituency is located. perhaps in replying to the Green Paper, to get us the resources we need into public health and elsewhere to Like the hon. Member for Harrow East, I was concerned start again and accelerate the number of people who to hear least week that England is not on track to reach quit. the 5% ambition by 2030. The 20-year difference between when the richest and poorest communities are expected to be smoke free shows that we are failing to support the 4.27 pm most vulnerable in our constituencies. So does the Minister agree that the smoke-free 2030 ambition must be more The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health than a headline target and that the Government must and Social Care (Jo Churchill): I thank my hon. Friend ensure that they will also deliver a smoke-free generation the Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) for securing for communities such as mine in Stockton? this important debate on the World Health Organisation framework convention on tobacco control. His passionate The hon. Gentleman mentioned illegal tobacco, so I workontobaccoharms,includingthroughhischairmanship wish to say just a few words about that. During the general of the all-party group, and the work of his worthy sidekick election, I was on the Hardwick estate in my constituency, as co-chair, continues to keep us focused on what we where a woman was standing at a door. I was walking have to do and on our goal of being smoke-free by up the path and then I realised that money was changing 2030. I thank them for that. I agree with both of them hands. The money changed hands and the door closed. that smoking is one of the most significant public health When it reopened, someone had a package in their hand. challenges that we face today and that, sadly, it is one I know what it was, but the woman saw me and said, that disproportionately affects disadvantaged groups, “Just wait a few minutes.” She then said, “How can I with the resultant impact on their health and their finances. help you?”I nearly said, “You could help by not operating This year,the WHO framework convention is celebrating an illegal tobacco operation”, but I was looking for its 15th anniversary. Over those 15 years, the parties to their vote, so perhaps I prejudiced my principles on that the convention have worked towards a tobacco-free occasion. world. Wehave seen encouraging improvements in tobacco These things are happening day in, day out. My wife control worldwide, but there is still much more work to was a school nurse and she went to schools to talk be done to protect the world’s population from the about smoking. She used to deploy the economic argument, harms of a tobacco epidemic. saying to the kids, “If you have so many cigarettes a As a recognised world leader in tobacco control, the week, it will cost you £10. Over a year that works out at UK is firmly committed to the World Health Organisation’s £520 and that would take the family on a short holiday.” framework convention on tobacco control—which I One day, a child put up his hand and said, “Miss, you’ve will now abbreviate to FCTC for all our sakes—and we got the price wrong. They are only £3 a packet from—”. will remain an active member. I thank my hon. Friend He named a person around the corner from where he for continuing to remind us how important the obligations lived. So it is clear that we still have a problem to solve under the convention are. In answer to his direct question, and we have an education problem to deal with as well. we will remain fully committed to the convention and, Finally, I know that PMI’s proposals for a “tobacco importantly, to article 5.3 during the transition period transition fund″ in partnership with the industry have and beyond. I can assure him, as my predecessor did, already been put to Parliament in a ten-minute rule Bill that we write to NHS trusts and local authorities to tabled by my former colleague Kevin Barron in the last remind them of their obligations under article 5.3 to Parliament. Kevin is a long-standing supporter of tobacco protect public health interests from tobacco industry control, but he admitted to The Guardian that he had interference. I am proud that, in the first global tobacco had discussions with PMI before tabling the Bill, that industry interference index, published last year, we he now supported partnering with the industry and that were rated No. 1 for the work we do to protect health he had spoken to Ministers about the proposals. Kevin policy from tobacco companies, but I take on board the was probably the greatest parliamentary campaigner, fact that we need to make sure we continue on that path. perhaps even better than the hon. Member for Harrow It is estimated that at least 8 million deaths around East, against the tobacco industry for nearly all his the world every year are linked to tobacco—more than 36 years as an MP, so I was really concerned that he for AIDS, tuberculosis and malaria combined. Some was prepared to work with a tobacco company, albeit 80% of the 1 billion smokers live in low and middle-income with the best of intentions, to change the law. Although countries. That puts a huge strain on the development some people may have been convinced that PMI has of those countries and their achievement of the sustainable been reborn as a public health champion, that is development goals. There is high demand from such certainly not the case for the all-party group on smoking countries for help to implement tobacco control measures. and health, and I hope the Minister will confirm that That is why, as a global leader, the UK is providing the Government agree on that. PMI’s attempts to support, via official development assistance, to the FCTC whitewash its reputation are nauseating, in a company 2030 project, working with low and middle-income that continues to promote its deadly cigarettes to children countries to support its implementation, with the ultimate and young people whenever and wherever it can get aim of reducing the burden of tobacco-related deaths away with it. and diseases. So there is still much yet to be done, and I will be The project has received praise from countries interested to near what the Minister has to say. I want participating, as well as from the global public health and her not just to rule out any sort of relationship with development communities. It has also helped to raise PMI, except perhaps taxing it a bit more, with no the UK’s profile as a global leader in tobacco control, 1079 WHO Framework Convention on 5 MARCH 2020 WHO Framework Convention on 1080 Tobacco Control Tobacco Control [Jo Churchill] wrapped around the young pregnant women. It actually reached out into their families, encouraging partners, and is strengthening its global reach. Building on that mothers and other family members to support them. success, we are increasing capacity within the existing That gave the young women a great deal of motivation. budget to include several more countries to support I spoke to one young father who had not yet managed over years four and five. to quit his habit, but he had taken many of the messages In the UK, smoking prevalence is at the lowest ever on board, was not smoking in their home, and was rate on record and is falling, but we are not complacent—as actually attempting to change his behaviour for the has been pointed out, the rate of decline is slowing. long-term benefit of his future’s baby’s health. Around 78,000 people die every year in this country This is a particular passion of mine. I believe that we from smoking-related illnesses. As I said yesterday during give both people a much better, healthy start if we can the debate on health inequalities, and as my hon. Friend tackle pregnant mums as a particular cohort, because, pointed out so eloquently, we know that the smoking obviously, we not only help the mother, but, as my hon. habit particularly affects disadvantaged communities. Friend has said, help the future health of the baby and We must end that, and our prevention Green Paper sets ensure that a health compromised by smoking in pregnancy out the ambition to be smoke-free by 2030. That is is not something that then follows them through their undoubtedly a challenging ambition. The public lifetime. I spoke to those mums and partners about how consultation that closed in October had 1,600 responses— using a joined-up approach could work and I would be more than double the number we usually get—and it is delighted if my hon. Friend and the hon. Gentleman taking some time to go through the analysis. We are would talk to me further about the matter. analysing the proposals and developing our own response, which will be with Members shortly. Bob Blackman: I thank my hon. Friend for her commitment to this undoubted health challenge and Alex Cunningham: I appreciate everything the Minister also for what she said about pregnant young women. It is saying. It is the 2030 target I am really interested in. is not the case that these young women who are found The estimate a couple of weeks ago was that, with to be pregnant are automatically routed to smoking current programming, we are 20 years behind where we cessation services yet—neither are their partners. It is, need to be. Will she tell us how we are going to achieve in the long-term, an NHS plan to do that. Given what that target instead? my hon. Friend has said and that she has seen the success of the trials, will she try to bring that plan Jo Churchill: I thank the hon. Gentleman, and, yes, I forward so that we actually give every pregnant woman will. There is a need to be smarter with what we do. As who smokes the opportunity to be seen by smoking was stated, we will achieve the target in some communities, cessation services? In that way they can not only understand but not in others, so refocusing on where we have the what they should do and how they can quit, but see the problem must be part of the strategy. However, as I am damage that they are causing to their unborn child as a sure my hon. Friend and the hon. Gentleman appreciate, result of continuing to smoke. I do not want to pre-empt what we publish in the Green Paper. Jo Churchill: I can certainly assure my hon. Friend I acknowledge and thank my hon. Friend and the hon. that I am speaking with my officials all the time about Gentleman for the report by the all-party parliamentary how we can make programmes such as this more effective group on smoking and health, which I have read and and ensure that they reach out, but they have to be part which sets out the group’s recommendations, including of a comprehensive programme. We have to understand on the smoke-free 2030 fund. I assure them that the how we can best help communities most challenged by Department will speak to Her Majesty’s Treasury to smoking, who fall outside the 2025 target; we need to discuss possible financial levers to support our smoke-free pay attention to the detail if we are to address their ambitions. However, I also expect that both of them— 20-year trajectory. I would be delighted to have a further and particularly my hon. Friend, who is indefatigable in conversation on that matter with my hon. Friend at his lobbying on this matter—will lobby the Chancellor some point in the future. themselves. I wish to assure my hon. Friend that we are determined Across the country, people are tackling the harms of to build on the success of work so far to sustain our tobacco every single day.During a recent visit to Tameside global efforts to tackle the tobacco epidemic and work Hospital, I witnessed at first hand the commitment and towards England becoming smoke-free by 2030. I can dedication of healthcare professionals involved in the also assure him that I am committed to seeing more delivery of an innovative approach to reducing smoking individuals receive help so that they can successfully in pregnancy. While the hon. Member for Stockton quit the habit. North (Alex Cunningham) was speaking, I was reflecting on the fact that many of the things that he was saying Bob Blackman: Before the Minister sits down, let me about his own constituency were very similar to those in counsel her that one of her predecessors, my hon. this particular project. The prevalence within their local Friend the Member for Winchester (Steve Brine), was community to start with was much higher than average, asked during his first outing at the Dispatch Box in Health and the people who were starting to smoke as a habit questions when the prevention Green Paper would be were of a much younger age. Therefore, by the time published, and—to the consternation of his officials—he these young women were pregnant, they had been smoking announced, “This month”. Therefore,if the Minister would for a longer period of time, making cessation more do us the honour of saying when we will get the response difficult. The project was thoughtful and holistic in to the Green Paper, I am sure—to the consternation of terms of the agencies that it used, and the way that it her officials—we would get some urgent action. 1081 WHO Framework Convention on 5 MARCH 2020 WHO Framework Convention on 1082 Tobacco Control Tobacco Control Jo Churchill: I will resist the temptation to name a Question put and agreed to. date, as I am sure my hon. Friend appreciates that I have one or two other things on my desk at the moment, but we will make sure that the document is with him as 4.40 pm soon as possible. House adjourned.

357WH 5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 358WH

Lucy Allan: I am grateful to my hon. Friend for Westminster Hall making that vital point. Many of the postmasters thought that the £57 million would go to them, as was announced in the press. However, after the legal costs have been Thursday 5 March 2020 paid, it is unlikely that sufficient moneys will be left over to compensate even those from whom the Post Office [STEVE MCCABE in the Chair] extracted money when their tills did not balance. Even that money may not be refunded, never mind the costs for the actual losses suffered by postmasters. There will Post Office and Horizon Software be nothing at all left for actual compensation.

1.30 pm Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP): I Lucy Allan (Telford) (Con): I beg to move, am sure the hon. Lady will agree that this whole episode has had far-reaching consequences for those affected by That this House has considered the Criminal Cases Review Commission’s process for review of convictions relating to the it. She will also be aware that the Select Committee on Post Office and Horizon accounting system. Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy Committee is going to hold an inquiry. Does she share my view that It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, there needs to be more than that? We need a full and Mr McCabe, and a privilege to have secured this debate. comprehensive public inquiry, to ensure that this kind Following the completion of the litigation process, I am of shambles, which has cost so many people so much, sure it will be the first of many on different aspects of never happens again. this miscarriage of justice. I pay tribute to those who have fought the corner of Lucy Allan: The hon. Lady makes a very important postmasters affected by the Horizon IT system over point, which I will return to a little later in my speech. It many years, particularly Lord Arbuthnot of Edrom is very welcome indeed that the BEIS Committee will and my hon. Friend the Member for North West look at this issue. Leicestershire (Andrew Bridgen). I also pay tribute to the right hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): I am for his sterling work, my hon. Friend the Member for sure the hon. Lady will agree that this business—the Woking (Mr Lord), who has worked so hard on the Post Office—was effectively wholly owned by the terrible case of Seema Misra, and many other Members Government. None of us should argue about whether across the House who have long campaigned on this lawyers should be paid for bringing litigation on behalf issue. of these victims, but should not the Government themselves I pay a particularly special tribute to those Post step in to ensure that all of that money—all of those Office workers and campaigners who have had to overcome lawyers’ fees—is paid by the Government? the myriad obstacles and hurdles that have been put in their way over the years. I am humbled by their fortitude Lucy Allan: The hon. Gentleman makes a very important and dignity, as they have continually—indeed, stoically— point, and it is absolutely right that those sub-postmasters endured much in many ways, as their quest for justice who paid money they did not owe to the Post Office— goes on. simply on the basis of their tills not balancing, which I have not come to Westminster Hall today to level was due to a flaw in the Horizon IT system—should be criticism at the Post Office, nor to set out the background fully compensated for those losses, not to mention those to the successful group litigation against the Post Office. they then suffered as consequence. I have no need to do so because the honourable Mr Justice Actually, Fujitsu has a role to play in this process as Fraser, who I am sure will eventually go down in history well, because the judge made clear in his judgment that as the next Lord Denning, has already comprehensively he doubted the veracity of some of the information he done so in his very fine judgments, particularly that was given, and he subsequently made a referral to the handed down on 16 December 2019. I will, however, Director of Public Prosecutions to query that information. draw attention to the way in which the Post Office There is a separate debate to be had on that issue, which embarked on what appears to any outside observer to we could have at a later stage. have been a war of attrition against its former employees throughout the litigation process, repeatedly appealing every decision, seeking to recuse the judge, and appealing Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con): May I praise the judgments that were handed down. That war of my hon. Friend for her campaign against this miscarriage attrition ground down the claimants and forced them of justice? I and many other MPs are here in Westminster into a settlement, most of which will go towards meeting Hall today on behalf of our constituents. I am here on their legal fees. behalf of just three of the victims of this scandal: Gillian and Graham Howard, and Maria Lockwood. John Howell (Henley) (Con): My hon. Friend makes There are other victims across the country. Will my hon. a valid point about the settlement. The case was supposed Friend continue to work with me and other MPs so that to be settled through a process of mediation. The we get justice and full redress for the victims of this settlement came to more than £57 million. Does she not miscarriage of justice? think that it is outrageous that most of that sum is going to lawyers, which brings into disrepute the whole Lucy Allan: I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, process of mediation—and I say that as a mediator and he is absolutely right that it is now down to us as myself? It is outrageous that mediation can charge so parliamentarians to put right this miscarriage of justice. much for what was a fairly straightforward operation. I am grateful for the support of many MPs from all 359WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 360WH

[Lucy Allan] team. Overturning the convictions is one element, but we must have a mechanism to hold to account those parties, but I am also grateful, as I said earlier, for the who were responsible, who at some point in this saga incredible campaigning work that was done long before were fully aware that the Horizon system was flawed. I I came to this place. am delighted that the BEIS Committee will, I hope, I will make just one more point before I move on to invite many of those responsible to give evidence. the main issues I want to raise. I will put on the record Maria Eagle (Garston and Halewood) (Lab): I that the judge handed down findings that confirmed congratulate the hon. Lady on securing this debate and that bugs, errors and defects did indeed exist in the on the work she has done. My constituent Karl Reid Horizon IT accounting system, and that these defects describes himself as one of the lucky ones because he had caused financial discrepancies, for which postmasters was not jailed or convicted, but he did lose £50,000 and were held accountable. That is a very important finding two businesses. He felt that he had to move out of the and I am pleased to place it on the record. area where he used to have those businesses because of The purpose of this debate, now that the litigation is the associated shame and concern. Does she agree that, complete, is to highlight the need to find a mechanism although it is a priority to get the convictions overturned, that will allow those Post Office workers affected by this the consequences of the scandal go so much broader, to scandal to put the nightmare behind them and move people such as Karl Reid? He describes himself as forward with their lives. Of course, until convictions are lucky, but I would not describe him as lucky, and I am quashed and criminal records expunged, it is very hard sure the hon. Lady would not, either. to see how they can possibly do that. So many of these decent people were pillars of their Lucy Allan: The hon. Lady is right and I fully endorse communities, working in a respected role in what was what she says. One direct benefit of the settlement and once a respected institution. They speak of the way that the conclusion of the litigation is that, as the representatives the wrongful allegations of theft and fraud, and their of postmasters who have been so grotesquely wronged, wrongful imprisonment, affected their reputations in we now have the opportunity to correct that. I am their community, causing a deep sense of stigma, social thankful that the day has come. isolation and shame for themselves and their families. I say to all those postmasters affected by this injustice For some of them, that was too much to bear. that this debate is just the beginning. The Prime Minister has promised to get to the bottom of what happened, Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the hon. and I understand from what I heard at Prime Minister’s Lady for bringing this matter to Westminster Hall for us questions last week that he has agreed to an independent all to comment on, and so we can support her, too, as inquiry. Regrettably, in my experience, those responsible always. Does she agree that, since our courts have found will have long since retired before any such inquiry even that the Horizon system was unreliable, it follows that gets under way, but it is in any event a welcome first the convictions that relied on the Horizon data may also step. be unreliable? The argument that the interests of justice What is hugely to be welcomed—I think all sub- cannot be met unless we review convictions based on postmasters affected will welcome this—is that next this flawed system is, therefore, understandable. The week the BEIS Committee will begin holding its inquiry judgment, however, did not deal with the question of and taking evidence. My constituent, Tracy Felstead, convictions, so there is still work to do to address that. will be giving evidence next Tuesday. She is perhaps one of the most tragic cases, having only been a young Lucy Allan: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, 18-year-old girl in her first job straight out of school, and I thank him for his intervention, because we are just delighted to be going to work for the Post Office. She at the beginning. We now have the opportunity, as ended up in Holloway Prison for six months and is still parliamentarians, to start work. This matter is no longer struggling to come to terms with the reality of what sub judice—we can talk about it—and it is fantastic happened to her. The BEIS Committee inquiry is a that there is a groundswell of support from right across fantastic opportunity for all the issues of the Horizon both Houses. accounting system to be explored, in-depth and in public, and that is very important. The hon. Member Philip Dunne (Ludlow) (Con): My hon. Friend and for Leeds West (Rachel Reeves) is a very thorough neighbour is making a very powerful case on behalf of Chair, and she will hold those responsible to account all the victims, including my constituent, Rubbina Shaheen, through her Committee. I know that all of us here today who is one of three or four postmistresses who got into will welcome that. severe difficulties as a result of this error on the part of Gerald Jones (Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney) (Lab): I Fujitsu. She was convicted in 2010 and spent 12 months thank the hon. Lady for bringing this debate. I certainly in jail. Her life was destroyed and she and her husband welcome the BEIS Committee inquiry into the issue. lost their home. What does my hon. Friend think we can Although justice and compensation are entirely appropriate, do to try to hold to account those who are responsible does she agree that no amount of compensation will and provide some justice for our constituents? restore the dignity that was lost by so many or repair the damage done to people’s physical and mental health by Lucy Allan: My right hon. Friend and neighbour is this long-standing scandal? absolutely right, and I am glad he has had the opportunity to raise that distressing case. There is a great deal we can Lucy Allan: The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: do to correct this miscarriage of justice. This debate is no amount of money will ever compensate those affected. just the beginning. I have had very constructive We need to help them get their lives back on track, and conversations with members of the Ministry of Justice there are various ways we can do that. Having a sense 361WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 362WH that justice has been done is incredibly important, even depth, and I wish him well in his new role as Minister if it is not possible to fully compensate for the losses for the Post Office. With a new Minister in post, a new suffered. Government in office and a fine judgment from Justice Fraser, we have an opportunity to get justice done. I Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab): My constituent Pamela look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say Lock had 80 hours of community service and, like about how Government can help postmasters overturn many others, was sacked from the Post Office, but she wrongful convictions in a timely manner. I urge him to continues to have a successful shop and bakery. We all work with the excellent Minister for miscarriages of understand that the financial pay-out will not be enough justice, my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham for the people affected and does not cover the losses, (Alex Chalk), to see how Government can help to but the hon. Member said this debate is just the beginning. support the CCRC in these unique circumstances and If this is the beginning, what hope can we give to ensure that the Post Office and its management stay victims of this travesty in terms of the timescale they well out of these decisions. have to work in? Lucy Allan: The hon. Lady is right to raise that point, Mrs Sharon Hodgson (Washington and Sunderland because many of these people have been suffering for West) (Lab): As well as encouraging the Minister to see many years. My constituent was one of the very first whether there is a way to overturn these wrongful victims of this miscarriage of justice, with the event convictions, does the hon. Lady agree that he should see happening to her in 2000, so Members can imagine how if there is a way that people such as my constituent, who she has suffered throughout that period. Indeed, her suffered losses of more than £100,000 and was forced to family have suffered, too. sell his business, are rightfully compensated? When I heard the size of the award, I was so pleased for all my I will move on to the question of how we get to the constituents, but the majority of it seems to have gone review of these convictions. A group litigation order on legal fees. My constituent tells me that he will receive was approved by the president of the Queen’s bench hardly any of the £100,000 he lost, not to mention division, so it follows that a group remedy is possible compensation. Does the hon. Lady think that the when there are clearly common themes. One such common Government should seek to ensure that the majority of theme must surely be that convictions were achieved on the award goes to the victims? the basis of the Horizon IT evidence, which Justice Fraser has ruled, as I said earlier, to be not “remotely robust” and prone to errors. Lucy Allan: The hon. Lady makes an important point. It is unbelievable that the announcement was Dialogue with the Criminal Cases Review Commission made by the Post Office on 11 December, when we all has been helpful, and I am confident that it realises that know what we were doing on 12 December. It was the case is exceptional and should be treated as such, supposed to be part of a confidentiality agreement, and and that it will carefully consider all the common themes the Post Office announced that £57 million was to be that would enable a referral to the Court of Appeal to paid to sub-postmasters when that was of course not be grouped. I very much hope that the CCRC continues the case. That is further evidence of the way in which with that mindset. I understand from my discussions the Post Office has conducted itself throughout the with representatives of the Post Office that it would process. It is not acceptable to mislead in that way. The prefer each case to be treated separately. They have said judge said almost the same thing regarding some of the that the Post Office will insist that those who pleaded evidence that was put before him. I therefore fully agree guilty to false accounting should be excluded from the that that was a shameful part of this saga, although the process. However, it seems to me that that should not be whole saga is deeply shameful. a matter for the Post Office to involve itself in. Should the cases be referred by the CCRC to the Court of I invite the Minister to consider the many very real Appeal, the Post Office will be a respondent. It would conflicts of interest. I will not outline them all, but I will be wholly wrong for the Post Office to be involved in put on record that his Department owns the equity in any decisions around the mechanisms for the quashing the Post Office, provides up to £1 billion in debt funding, of the convictions, given that the convictions are of approves the board, monitors performance, and provides people whom it sought to prosecute. annual grants. Last year’s grant was £50 million. I will say no more on that, but I will give him a list of the One of the representatives of the Post Office said to conflicts of interest, which also include personnel, at a me that he doubts many cases will be referred to the later date. In a modern business environment, we need Court of Appeal and that those that do are unlikely to to be alert to the fact that such conflicts do not prevent succeed. It seems to me that rather than learning the justice from being done. lessons and moving forward, as the Post Office suggests it has, it is in fact still intent on protecting the interests I am encouraged by discussions with Ministers and of the institution at all costs. That is hugely damaging across parties. There is a clear will in Parliament to to the Post Office. We love the Post Office. We support move forward and see justice done. Whatever obstacles the Post Office and we want it to thrive, but to continue the Post Office continues to put in the way, I hope it with that mindset, which Justice Fraser referred to as senses the appetite in Parliament and hears the voice of “institutional obstinacy”, is not only damaging to the the judge in this case. The Post Office needs to stop Post Office brand and reputation, but adds insult to putting obstacles in the way of justice; it is doing the injury for those who have suffered as a direct consequence organisation no favours whatever. of its failure to see the world as round. I am sure the Minister will agree that the Post Office I have huge admiration for the Minister, who I know has had the opportunity to be part of the solution over is a man of enormous integrity with an inquiring mind. and over again, and that that time has passed. Given all He will, I have no doubt, read around the subject in its actions throughout, including the mediation process 363WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 364WH

[Lucy Allan] with the system. The books are not balancing. What’s going on?”. The Post Office should have investigated back in 2015 that it simply cancelled—it did not like the IT system, rather than rushing to interview and what the forensic accountants were saying, and it fired investigate, and threatening to interview people whether them—the Post Office has had its opportunity to be they liked it or not. part of the solution. Its behaviour in the litigation The contract between the sub-postmaster and the suggests that it has no interest whatever in finding a Post Office was unbelievable. I did not know this then, solution for postmasters; its interests lie in preserving but the contract said that sub-postmasters were not the institution no matter what. allowed legal representation in those initial proceedings. I hope we can all ensure that the Post Office does not Therefore, their only possible representation was through stand in the way of the work of the CCRC or the Court the National Federation of SubPostmasters, which happens of Appeal. I put on record my thanks to the campaign to be completely owned and financed by Post Office Ltd. group, which has done amazing work against the odds, That is almost like a solicitor representing a client in a and to the Chairman of Ways and Means, who allowed police station regarding criminal proceedings for serious this debate. I know that many others wanted to be offences—there are more serious offences, but this is granted a debate on this subject, and I am grateful that I dishonesty; this is where reputational damage can be was given the opportunity. It is we, in this place, who caused, and people cannot live with the consequences must now find a solution to this grotesque injustice—a of the charges—while working for the Crown Prosecution miscarriage of justice of immense proportions—and we Service. It is utterly deplorable, and I honestly do not must do so whatever the obstacles, come what may. think that I have heard of anything as bad for a very long time. 1.52 pm Maria Eagle: Does my hon. Friend agree that the real Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab): It is difficulty in tackling such wrongful convictions will always a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, involve those who pleaded guilty? Our legal system does Mr McCabe. I congratulate the hon. Member for Telford not provide a simple way of overturning convictions (Lucy Allan) on securing this incredibly important debate, when there has been a guilty plea, and for good reasons. and thank her for the work that she has been doing to In this case, however, there may be reasons for that to be expose the Post Office’s utterly despicable behaviour in looked at. That will be the thorniest problem for the the entire proceedings, from the very outset when people Minister. were prosecuted. Prior to my election to the House, I practised criminal Karl Turner: My hon. Friend is spot on. There are law from my local chambers in Hull, prosecuting and major problems in that regard, though I am very hopeful. defending. Prior to that, I worked for a firm of solicitors However, I do not want to interfere with the Criminal in Hull, the Max Gold Partnership. I think it was in Cases Review Commission and the hearing that is bound 2006 that I met a sub-postmaster who was implicated in to come for those individuals whose convictions will be these proceedings. Janet Skinner was prosecuted by the considered by the Court of Appeal. Post Office for theft. During the short proceedings, the I suppose my point is that Janet Skinner should never prosecution offered her the opportunity to plead guilty have been prosecuted in the first place. She should never to false accounting, which she did. She was sentenced have been led, off the record, to falsely account. When accordingly by Hull Crown court, and received a custodial her system was not balancing at the end of the day, she sentence of nine months in prison. rang the Post Office to say, “What do I do?”. Off the Janet Skinner had a son, Matthew, who was 14 and record, the Post Office said, “Well, just make something clearly busy with his studies in preparation for various up.” There is never a paper trail of that advice being exams that were coming down the track. Her daughter, given. Toni, who was 17, was in the middle of examinations at the time. It was an incredible shock to Janet Skinner. I Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): remember her instructions to me quite well. I have had Although I will hopefully make my speech in a little the opportunity to speak with her subsequently; indeed, while, I will first make a point that the Chamber might I spoke to her yesterday evening. When I think back, appreciate, based on sub-postmasters’ evidence to me with the benefit of hindsight, I find it chilling and it about how they got into the position of being forced to makes my blood run cold. The prosecuting authority admit guilt due to false accounting. The system did not offered the opportunity to plead to a lesser offence, yet balance when they came to close down at the end of the according to Janet’s instructions to me, she was effectively day. They knew they had not done anything wrong, so led to commit the offence of false accounting. they looked for the fault and checked the stock for a It is a bit like being locked in a burning building, compensating error, by which time the helpline to the speaking to the emergency services, being advised to Post Office was closed. Under the contract that those smash a window to get out and then, weeks or months sub-postmasters had signed—a very onerous contract later,being prosecuted for the offence of criminal damage. that was slanted in favour of the Post Office—they It is utterly deplorable. Lawyers watching the debate could not open their post office the following morning will say that that is not a perfect analogy because there unless they closed off the books that night. That left is an inbuilt defence to criminal damage,which is reasonable them thinking, “It will be all right in the morning; I will excuse. That does not exist for section 17 of the Theft find the fault tomorrow.”In that moment of closing off, Act 1968, which provides for the offence of false accounting. they were guilty of false accounting—something that It really is utterly deplorable. Janet Skinner and others was held over them all the way through the process with contacted the Post Office to say, “We have problems the Post Office. 365WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 366WH

Karl Turner: From a legal perspective, false accounting sub-postmaster who got the opportunity to not be is not a strict liability offence, so there is an opportunity prosecuted by paying the Post Office back; he had to to defend against that allegation. However, the hon. sell his house to do so. He has made the important point Gentleman is absolutely right to say that those sub- that the only people he could turn to were those in the postmasters were put into a position where they could National Federation of SubPostmasters. do nothing but make those false accounts. That is why I That sub-postmaster agreed to do an interview in a think this is the most disgusting example of predatory spare bedroom of his own home. He says in his email capitalism that I have ever come across. I say that that he was shocked to witness the investigating officer, because Post Office Ltd, along with Fujitsu, invested when speaking with the NFSP representative, telling £1 billion in that IT system. I suspect that senior people him to “fucking shut up”. At the time, he thought for within Post Office Ltd were desperate to maintain the that reason that the NFSP representative was on his reputation of the Post Office, but also, sadly, to maintain side, but he now thinks that it was all a scam—that the their own reputation as senior people within that business. representative was pretending to be interested, to be I think people misled from the very outset. befriending him, and to be representing him in that I have read many judgments, both while practising in interview. criminal cases and since that time, and I have never read a judgment as damning as that of Mr Justice Fraser. Steve McCabe (in the Chair): Mr Turner, can I ask For that, I pay huge tribute to him. I do not know you to start winding up? Mr Justice Fraser, but I know that his practice was technical—in the areas of engineering and technology—and Karl Turner: Thank you, Mr McCabe; I will finish it is clear from his understanding and grasp of that case now. That sub-postmaster is now wondering whether that he knew exactly what was happening. I think that what he experienced was all part of the scam. Given evidence given in that hearing was tantamount to perverting what has now been found in these proceedings, I wonder the course of justice, which I suspect is why Mr Justice that as well. Fraser has referred the matter to the Director of Public People have to be compensated properly. Lawyers Prosecutions, Max Hill QC, for him to consider. Honestly, must be paid. This was an incredibly costly litigation—a this is utterly deplorable. David and Goliath situation in which people needed to Of course, people will say, “Those victims can rely on make representations in proceedings before courts. The civil litigation to bring an action for malicious prosecution,” Government must step in immediately, pay the legal but what sub-postmaster has £50,000, £60,000 or £70,000 costs on behalf of those victims, and get them the spare when their careers have been ruined and every money they so desperately deserve. penny they had amassed in savings has gone to pay off the Post Office—money that they did not actually owe? Steve McCabe (in the Chair): I am going to have to impose a six-minute limit on speeches if we are to get Philip Dunne: The hon. Gentleman is making a powerful everybody else in. point based on his experience of the law, but I ask him to comment on the corporate governance aspect. He 2.7 pm has touched on corporate responsibility; does he not, as I do, find this utterly astonishing given the volume of Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con): It similar allegations being made right across the country? is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe, It is not as though this were isolated to a geographic and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for area or particular type of sub-postmaster; it was happening Telford (Lucy Allan) on securing the debate. I will keep right across the country. Any corporate directorship or my offering reasonably brief, because I hope to speak in management scheme worth its salt would have identified greater detail during the Backbench Business debate on that there was a fundamental problem and sought to Thursday 19 March. find the root cause of it, rather than immediately reach It is worth reminding Members present of the points for their solicitors’ letters. I made in this very Chamber during a debate in December 2014. They are credible evidence that the Post Office Karl Turner: The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely knew about the flaws in the Horizon system throughout right: alarm bells must have been ringing. I am not the whole time it was prosecuting sub-postmasters, and saying that my legal advice at the time was bad advice; I that it tried to suppress evidence and the investigation think it was perfectly good, considering the weight of that we, as a group of MPs with the help of Second the evidence and the instructions I was receiving. However, Sight, were running into the activities and efficacy of somewhere in the Post Office, someone must have been the Horizon system. They illustrate why these convictions saying, “Hang on a minute. We get maybe two or three are unsafe and should be quashed. allegations of wrongdoing per month or year”—I do This whole issue first came to my attention because not know what the figures might be—“but all of a of the plight of one of my constituents, a Mr Michael sudden, we have 550 thieving, dishonest sub-postmasters Rudkin, who for 15 years was a sub-postmaster. He had who have never had so much as a parking ticket in their served as the most senior member on the national lives,”as Janet Skinner said to me. It is utterly deplorable. executive of the NFSP and as chairman of the federation’s For me, the alarm bell rang in 2015 when “Panorama” negotiating committee, where he was responsible for did its documentary, which was chilling. My blood ran negotiating with Post Office Ltd and Royal Mail Group. cold, because I had to remind myself what advice I had He is an experienced sub-postmaster who was very given and check with myself whether everything had much on the side of the sub-postmasters. I will share his been absolutely right in that regard. Since I have been experience, because he was well aware of problems in involved with this matter, I have been contacted by a the Horizon system. 367WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 368WH

[Andrew Bridgen] liable under the contract for all losses. As he points out, why would someone steal money from themselves when Mr Rudkin’s story really starts on Tuesday 19 August they know that they will have to pay it back? 2008. In his official capacity as a negotiator on behalf After Mr Rudkin had paid £13,000 back to Post of the sub-postmasters, he was invited to a meeting at Office Ltd, the Post Office started proceedings against the Fujitsu and Post Office Ltd offices in Bracknell to his wife for false accounting. We have heard it all before. discuss problems with the Horizon system. When It also applied for a confiscation order on his property Mr Rudkin gave me this evidence, I had no doubt that and had his bank account frozen under the Proceeds of he was telling the truth—he was an honest man—and a Crime Act 2002. Mr Rudkin has since cleared all his Fujitsu whistleblower has since come forward to confirm debts to Post Office Ltd, but in the process, he has lost everything he said. his business, his reputation, his position as a magistrate, On his arrival that Tuesday morning, my constituent some property and his good name, and he has been signed the visitors’ book in reception and waited for his unable to work since. His wife was prosecuted and had chaperone, a Mr Martin Rolfe. Mr Rolfe took him to to complete community service having been warned the second or third floor, and they entered a suite where that she could face a prison sentence unless she pleaded Mr Rudkin recognised Horizon equipment on display guilty. on the benches. There was only one other person in the room, a male of approximately 30 to 35 years old, who was reluctant to engage in conversation when he realised 2.13 pm that Mr Rudkin was a representative of the sub-postmasters. Mr Rolfe asked Mr Rudkin to follow him through a Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP): I congratulate number of pass-protected security doors and down the hon. Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) on her some stairs. They went down to the ground floor and effective and efficient introduction to the debate. All entered the boiler room. Mr Rudkin states that a number parts of the United Kingdom have been affected by this of men dressed in casual office wear were standing utterly disgraceful scandal. Postmasters up and down around the doorway. They became very uncomfortable the country and across in Northern Ireland have been about Mr Rudkin’s presence and left. affected. Whether our constituencies are rural or have large towns, all hon. Members know how important Having entered the boiler room, Mr Rudkin instantly central post office services are to our constituents. Post recognised two Horizon terminals. There were data on offices take on an even more significant role when both screens, and an operative was sitting in front of banks withdraw from our constituencies, so the reputation one of them, on which the pure feed for the Horizon of the people in the post office is so important. system came into the building. Mr Rudkin asked if what he could see were real-time data available on the My uncle was a postmaster in Dundonald. Although, system. Mr Rolfe said, “Yes. I can actually alter a thankfully, he was not caught up in this situation, he bureau de change figure to demonstrate that this is often talked about how the system caused many people live.”He was going to alter a figure on a sub-postmaster’s in the post office to work under an atmosphere of fear computer remotely. Mr Rolfe then laughed and said, in case it did not tally and was not right. They saw what “I’ll have to put it back. Otherwise, the sub-postmaster’s was happening to colleagues of sound reputation and account will be short tonight.” how their lives were being destroyed by what was going on. The injustice done to more than 500 postmasters is The Post Office, throughout its prosecutions, relied all the more duplicitous given how central post offices on what it stated in court and in evidence to the panel of and the standing of the workers in them are to our MPs six or seven years ago, that there was no remote community. access from its headquarters to individual sub-postmasters’ After the judgment was made in December, my computers. The moment that we established that, years constituent Mr Graham came to me to outline the ago, every single one of those convictions was unsafe problems that he has gone through. I will not recite the and the Post Office knew it. details, as the hon. Member for North West Leicestershire Mr Rudkin obviously raised his concern in 2008. He (Andrew Bridgen) has eloquently put on record one had been told the same as everyone else, that no one specific example, and we have heard other examples of could access the computers remotely and any shortfall individuals. was therefore bound to be down to the sub-postmaster. I salute the fortitude of the campaigners. One can When they realised who he was, he was escorted from imagine people putting their heads down and saying, the building very quickly. He was taken to reception “Let’s just hope this goes away,” but they have stood up and told to leave. and fought, because they have suffered a personal injustice Mysteriously, and ominously, the next day, Wednesday that means that they want the matter to be put right. 20 August 2008, a Post Office Ltd auditor, a gentleman Their reputations have been ruined and their family’s Mr Rudkin knew, Paul Fields, arrived at Mr Rudkin’s lives have been completely disrupted, yet they have sub-post office in Ibstock in my constituency.He proceeded faced the injustice. to tell Mr Rudkin that his branch had a loss of £44,000—a loss that he knew existed before he had even looked at the system on Mr Rudkin’s computer. Andrew Bridgen: Is the hon. Gentleman aware that the Post Office was given prosecution powers, which Mr Rudkin was absolved of all knowledge of the loss meant that the prosecutions it brought did not have to by Post Office Ltd, but he was ordered to pay the money go through the Crown Prosecution Service for review, as back. He paid it at a rate of £1,000 a month from his normal prosecutions would? It abused those powers, as salary.As we have heard, the sub-postmaster is completely far as I am concerned. 369WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 370WH

Ian Paisley: The hon. Member for Telford made it right corporation have to be held responsible and absolutely clear that the Post Office and the authorities accountable for their actions. If individuals have done should hang their heads in shame about how they acted. even some of the things that the hon. Member for Before I became a Member of Parliament, I worked North West Leicestershire recounted to the House on on a campaign with the Criminal Cases Review behalf of his constituent—my goodness! Four or five Commission. It was a murder conviction of four individuals people in the basement of that room should be taken to called Latimer, Allen, Bell and Hegan. I had to try to court and held accountable for their actions. We need to find fresh factors or new evidence that would overcome face this issue honestly and openly. a very high standard to persuade the commission to I call on the Government to have some transparency. send that case to the High Court for a retrial. I found Let the public be the judge and jury. Let us set out with that the statements had been wrongly written, which transparency the amount of money that was supposed sufficed to get the case back to court. Ultimately, three to be paid, and who is getting what of that money. If it of those murder convictions were overturned on that means shaming certain people for walking away with basis. their pockets stuffed full because they represented a In this case, the Post Office admitted in court that it case—they are entitled to their payments, but postmasters had got it wrong. A letter from the former Minister for get absolutely zilch in some circumstances—that should Small Business, Consumers and Corporate Responsibility, be exposed. I hope it is exposed. I call on the Minister to the hon. Member for Rochester and Strood (Kelly ensure that we have that transparency, because of what Tolhurst), states that the Post Office had not only “got has now happened. things wrong” but “apologised” for its actions to all the postmasters. A statement from the most senior lord Steve McCabe (in the Chair): I call Duncan Baker. justice says that what the Post Office has done Mr Baker, thank you for notifying me of your interests. Will you repeat the information for the record? “amounts to the 21st century equivalent of maintaining that the earth is flat”, and that the Post Office has completely ignored reality. 2.21 pm According to my reading of the Criminal Cases Review Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con): I thank my Commission process, those statements alone show that hon. Friend the Member for Telford (Lucy Allan) for there are fresh factors on the table and new evidence bringing this debate forward. I declare that I was a that was not available before. Those cases should be sub-postmaster for two post offices before I became an expedited and brought to the courts without delay. MP. I have resigned as a director of the company that There should be a fast-track process for those people so runs those post offices. I have no interests anymore and that they can get justice at last, have their day in court, none of the staff I employed were affected by this issue. have their reputations restored to them, have some My only interest is that of my constituents who are semblance of normality and have the right to say, “We affected. were not wrong. We have faced an injustice and it must I wonder if anyone else in this room has been a now be put right.” The earlier that happens, the better, sub-postmaster. It is important because, having done because the fresh factors and new evidence are there the job, although admittedly not every day, I have used and should be raised. the Horizon system. I have heard about and seen at first As the Minister knows, there is a double injustice in hand the experience of making up the losses, and I this case. On the one hand, the postmasters thought thoroughly empathise with the utterly awful situation that they had won through the mediation process and that hundreds of innocent victims have found themselves in. were handed a secret solution or compensation package. Many of the individuals who worked tirelessly running But on the other hand, when it was within a hand’s post offices were as honest and trustworthy as the day is grasp, like Lady Macbeth, it disappeared in front of long. They have had their careers and livelihoods wrecked. them when they went to take it. It was no longer there. Indeed, as we have heard, people have been made It is an atrocious set of circumstances where the lawyers bankrupt because of a flawed system that accused them have been allowed to win and the postmasters have of theft. As we all here agree, that is a true miscarriage faced a double injustice and will not get their compensation. of justice. People have lost their life savings; even worse Some people have said that it is up to the Government than that, young women have been jailed and have to pay, but I leave that to the Government. It is up to the struggled to rebuild their lives because of a criminal Post Office to pay. The Post Office put that injustice on record. my constituent—on our constituents. Someone is I have constituents in North Norfolk who have gone responsible here. The Government could step in and through such a trauma. Their story will be similar to hold the line until the matter is resolved, but ultimately more than 500 other cases, each as harrowing and as the Post Office should be made to pay. appalling. I do not want to reveal the names of my constituents because they still struggle to talk about Karl Turner: The Government should force the Post these issues. Office to pay. When we have a situation where lie after Accused of stealing thousands, suspended from their lie after lie has been told by Post Office Ltd, it needs role and then charged, one of my constituents found to be forced by the Government to cough up and sort themselves in the Crown court and was offered a deal to this out. plead guilty to false accounting to enable the theft charges to be dropped. Why would they accept that? Ian Paisley: The hon. Member and I are on the same This lady was a grandmother and she told me that she page. This has got to be sorted out and a payment has was not prepared to look her grandchildren in the eye got to be made. Ultimately, the right person and the and say that granny was going to jail. That is not 371WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 372WH

[Duncan Baker] Baker), whose personal experience is welcome in today’s debate. I thank the hon. Member for Telford (Lucy right—we all know that. In my constituent’s case, the Allan) for securing the debate.She outlined the background amount was reduced to £12,000. Interest and legal costs and history to this long, complex and shameful episode, of a further £9,000 meant a debt of £21,000. That is presided over by the Post Office and a Government who lower than some of the costs we have heard about, but I believe have so far sidestepped responsibility for the we should just imagine being levelled with £21,000 to hundreds of lives ruined by this scandal. pay, when it is not our fault. From the outset of the Post Office introducing the Horizon computer system, sub-postmasters were reporting Andrew Bridgen: I appreciate the experience that my problems. Instead of the Post Office listening to them, it hon. Friend brings to this debate.Through our investigations took the draconian approach of terminating contracts, years ago, we discovered that the Horizon system had a hounding sub-postmasters out of their businesses and suspense account in it. It was a flawless system, yet it pursuing prosecutions. As we have heard this afternoon, had a suspense account, where unallocated funds ended the results were charges of theft and fraud, reputational up throughout the whole system. The surplus—and it damage, loss of homes, bankruptcy, loss of life savings was a surplus—ran to hundreds of thousands of pounds and, for some, the loss of their freedom. It took until a year, and after three years it was returned to the profit December last year, when there was a judgment, for the and loss account. Post Office to admit that it “made mistakes” and “got things wrong”. This was more than mistakes and getting Steve McCabe (in the Chair): Order. Come on, things wrong; it ruined people’s lives. Mr Bridgen. I call Duncan Baker. It is an utter insult to tell my constituents who have Duncan Baker: To date, my constituent has had no suffered this injustice that it was simply a mistake. The money back, like many others.They have had no indication Post Office’s mistakes cost Kevin Carter, who ran one of of when the money is coming back and we are sceptical our local post offices with his wife, absolutely everything. about how much they will get back. His wife Julie noticed discrepancies in Horizon from the Financial compensation is just one issue. The mental outset. She frequently reported concerns, but they fell strain and loss of earnings should also be taken extremely on deaf ears. Being decent people, they began to use seriously. There is the humiliation of walking down the their own money to balance the books. street and being accused of stealing, having done nothing After continually raising concerns over several years, wrong. We are a fair society and it is our responsibility and with shortfalls increasing, Julie was invited to an to ensure that those people are paid back in full. informal disciplinary meeting. The Post Office demanded I totally agree that the £58 million that was put to one she pay back the unaccounted moneys and accused her side will no doubt be hoovered up by lawyers. What will of fraud. After remortgaging their home, Kevin and be left for the real victims? That is not right. The Julie were forced to pay the Post Office a total of Government must intervene and force the Post Office to £75,000. Julie suffers from multiple sclerosis, and the make good the losses that those postmasters have suffered, situation exacerbated her condition. She and Kevin had in full. The board of the Post Office is accountable for worked hard. They had a lovely home and employed this fiasco. Action must be taken against it. The issue is 14 staff. Their lives have now completely changed for most definitely worthy of a public inquiry to uncover the worse. Kevin and Julie, like many others, never gave the extent of the wrongdoing that has occurred. We up. They joined the Justice for Subpostmasters Alliance, need transparency and a fair analysis. and an exhausted Kevin recently told me, “Quite simply, we’ve lost our family home. We’ve lost everything.” It As far as I am concerned, the Post Office knew that literally cannot get worse than that. Horizon had bugs, errors and defects. It was told about that and chose to ignore it. Multiple accounts of losses Another constituent, Dionne Andre, bought two post should ring alarm bells in any organisation, but the Post offices in South Shields. After noticing discrepancies, Office was more concerned with its reputation and so and being a decent, honest person, she too started using individuals were accused of stealing, false accounting her own money to try to put things right. Accused of and fraud. Their names have to be cleared. The criminal fraud after the Post Office lost a recording of a disciplinary records of those jailed must be overturned. meeting with her, she was told, “Pay up, or we’re sending you to prison.” Dionne paid £70,000, but she was never My constituents, who cannot bring themselves to told by the Post Office whether it had dropped the fraud talk about this, still feel the shame of being accused and case against her, so she continued to live in constant nothing will repair the damage of losing their livelihood. fear of being arrested. She was then told by the Post However, I want to say, from my personal experience of Office that she had to resign. She was forced to sell her being a sub-postmaster,that the post office is an invaluable business at a £50,000 loss and the Post Office prevented place on our dwindling high streets. It is a hub for her from selling her second business, for which she had people to go to that offers incredible services. Post office paid a quarter of a million pounds. She lost absolutely workers do an incredible job. It is hard; there are many everything. Dionne is now in her 40s, but she had a transactions to master. They do a superb job. The promising future back in her early 30s. She told me that people accused should be properly recompensed, supported her working life has now gone, and it has taken years for and entirely vindicated. her to try to build it back up. Anyone who has ever had to fight for justice over a 2.28 pm number of years, in order to clear their name when they Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab): It is a are losing everything, will know that it can take its toll, pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe. physically and mentally. The reputational damage and I thank the hon. Member for North Norfolk (Duncan utter shame, for something that they know they were 373WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 374WH not responsible for, will stay with them forever. I think I wonder whether the Minister has listened to “File we can all agree that mud always sticks, yet the people on 4” on BBC Radio 4. The harrowing effect on victims responsible are doing just fine. That is why nothing less of the now discredited Horizon system, and the evidence than an independent, judge-led inquiry into this miscarriage of the Second Sight forensic accountants, is truly appalling. of justice will do. Post Office Ltd knew there was remote access to the After legal costs, the damages payouts awarded will system but denied that that was the case. Second Sight amount to only about £10 million for 550 people. In told Post Office Ltd of its concerns, but they were short, they are never going to get back the money they ignored. It is no wonder that the whole situation spiralled lost. For those wrongly convicted, their criminal record out of control. The honourable Justice Fraser, who remains. Although some of these cases are being reviewed, presided at the recent trial, clarified that the Government they should all be reviewed. It is not good enough for own the Post Office: successive Ministers to wash their hands and repeat the “I would also add that Post Office Ltd, the corporate Defendant mantra that the Post Office operates as a commercial in these proceedings, is ultimately owned by the Government, independent business and they have no day-to-day control admittedly through a corporate chain and a Government Department. It therefore either is, or shares a large number of features with, a over it. Given that it is a state-owned private company, public body. That is not to say that its decisions are subject (for the Government have a statutory duty to be involved in example) to judicial review (and that point was not argued at all, the Post Office—a duty that they have abdicated. so I am not expressing any view) but it cannot be seen as entirely In the other place, the Under-Secretary of State for private and wholly commercial.” Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, Lord Callanan, At every turn, successive Tory Governments have recently admitted that the Government were passive in refused to deal with concerns about Post Office Ltd. In their duties on the board of the Post Office. Why did one debate, the then Minister told me—I am they allow the Post Office to spend phenomenal sums of paraphrasing—that everything was fine because Post money on persecuting innocent people in the courts? Office Ltd was now making a profit. As the hon. Why did they not speak up for sub-postmasters? More Member for Telford mentioned, the Prime Minister importantly, who is the Government’s representative? appeared to commit to a full independent inquiry at Surely the Government should pay up for the legal costs Prime Minister’squestions last week. On Monday,however, incurred, or at least put pressure on the Post Office to Computer Weekly contacted No. 10 to ask explicitly do so. whether the Prime Minister had committed to a full public inquiry and whether it would be judge-led. No. 10’s The Post Office’s sheer obstinance and obfuscation response makes it clear that a decision has not been has been left unchallenged by the Government. It has made: been left to former sub-postmasters in the depths of despair to organise and fight for justice, but justice is “We take the Post Office’s relationship with its postmasters very seriously and closely monitored the situation during the legal still being denied. Their financial recompense is pitiful, proceedings. The Post Office, under its new CEO, has since and the lack of accountability and action against those accepted it got things wrong, apologised and has said it aims to responsible is completely woeful. The Government need re-establish a positive relationship with postmasters. The Department to take culpability and stop abdicating their responsibility for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy is working actively for those who are being denied justice. Given that this is with the Post Office on this matter and will hold them to account not a new issue, I sincerely hope that the Minister has on their progress. We are also looking into what more needs to be come prepared and can furnish us with some hope and done.” positivity—for a change. That does not appear to be what the Prime Minister said in the Chamber, and I would like the Minister to address that. 2.34 pm Post Office Ltd has spent millions trying to defend itself in the Horizon cases and caused untold damage to Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP): It many innocent people, who paid up to prevent prosecution. is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe, Some 56 cases are in the hands of the CCRC, which will and I congratulate the hon. Member for Telford (Lucy start to consider them this month. It is likely that the Allan) on securing this important debate. I want to appeals will be successful, which could allow applicants make it clear that the CCRC applies only to England to recover damages. and Wales, and the Scottish equivalent, the Scottish CCRC, has not received any applications for review but The hands-off approach taken by Tory Governments does not rule out the possibility. I will not mention all to Post Office Ltd could end up costing taxpayers even the speakers who have taken part in the debate. I will try more millions of pounds. Indeed it should, because to get through my speech as quickly as I can, so that we the Government should look to support the victims of can give the Opposition spokesperson and the Minister the scandal, who should not be out of pocket for the more time. financial harm they have suffered. The Scottish National party has called for a full independent inquiry into the Horizon system, because Andrew Bridgen: What is the hon. Lady’s view of the justice must be done. I have lost count of the number of situation for sub-postmasters who were coerced into times I have taken part in Westminster Hall debates on pleading guilty? What should they get in response? various aspects of the Post Office, including how Horizon has affected sub-postmasters and post office staff. The Marion Fellows: I see them as being as much victims Post Office and the National Federation of SubPostmasters of the Horizon scandal as any person who was taken to have not acquitted themselves well over the issue of the court, and they should be financially compensated. Horizon accounting system—I do not normally use This is a national scandal, and the biggest involving IT sarcasm in this place, but that is a sarcastic remark. in the public domain so far. 375WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 376WH

[Marion Fellows] “in capricious or arbitrary ways which would not be unfamiliar to a mid-Victorian factory-owner.” At the heart of the issue is the UK Government’s That falls far below the standards we would expect from laissez-faire attitude. They refuse time and again to one of Britain’s most recognisable and trusted institutions. intervene despite being the special shareholder. The UK Mr Justice Fraser also raised concerns about the structure Government must take action to ensure that it does not of accountability within the Post Office, stating that it happen again and that sub-postmasters and post office appeared staff are supported and financially compensated. The “to conduct itself as though it is answerable only to itself.” UK Government can no longer sit on their hands. They That was evident in the way in which the Post Office must launch an independent investigation and ensure handled its litigation; it was noted that the Post Office that such miscarriages of justice never happen again. pursued the trial with the resources and effort of a blue-chip tech company. 2.40 pm It is worth remembering that litigation was brought to address the errors of a Government-owned company, Gill Furniss (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) which was ultimately found at fault for the vicious (Lab): It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, pursuit and prosecution of hundreds of sub-postmasters. Mr McCabe. I thank the hon. Member for Telford The Post Office is a Government-owned company. A (Lucy Allan) for securing this important debate. civil servant sits on the board and its only shareholder is This extremely serious matter has raised worrying the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial questions about the management and governance structures Strategy, so more should have been done to address the of Post Office Ltd and the way in which the Government scandal before it was allowed to fester to this extent. oversee it as a public body. I pay tribute to the many In the light of the number of wrongful convictions, a sub-postmasters who have endured the harsh realities group expungement of the criminal records of those of this national scandal. Among them is Alan Bates, convicted seems the most suitable way forward. who has spearheaded the litigation that ultimately saw Unfortunately, the Post Office has resisted that idea and sub-postmasters get some of the vindication they deserved. would prefer each sub-postmaster to bring their own Like Mr Bates, I know that the successful litigation was legal action to overturn their conviction. That is completely the first step towards achieving justice. I also pay tribute outrageous. People who have lived for many years through to journalist Nick Wallis, who has followed the case the scandal and lost everything, including their savings from the beginning and has been a passionate champion and reputations, are now being asked to go back to for the sub-postmasters’ cause over many years. court to give their own evidence, despite Mr Justice This debate relates specifically to the review of criminal Fraser’s finding that the Horizon computer system by cases, so I am disappointed that the Ministry of Justice Fujitsu was at fault. The Post Office was alerted to is not responding to it. Will the Minister explain why it those faults many years ago, so it should not have any is a BEIS representative who is responding, when the illusions about the system’s effectiveness. topic of the debate was intended to fall under the brief It is striking that the Post Office seems to have of the Ministry of Justice? learned nothing from the unnecessary prosecutions of The wrongful conviction of sub-postmasters has had 557 hard-working sub-postmasters or from the huge an impact on the lives of far too many individuals and amount of anger expressed by judges, parliamentarians their families. People have lost their livelihoods, had and the public. Instead, it forges ahead as though it has their businesses stolen from them and, in many cases, done nothing wrong. I urge the Minister to work with been ostracised from their communities. For those affected, colleagues in the Ministry of Justice to move towards that has been a living nightmare. overturning, quickly and fairly, the convictions of the One young woman began her career as a sub-postmaster sub-postmasters affected by Horizon. at the age of 18, but after prosecution and conviction Serious questions need to be answered about the she has faced unemployment and financial ruin at a relationship between the company and the Government. time when her adult life and independence should have The Government have been content to parrot the Post begun. Another sub-postmaster whose life was turned Office’s line throughout the process, claiming that the upside down was bankrupted by legal fees and shunned December settlement was the end of the matter. Nothing by the community he had so diligently served. His could be further from the truth for the people who are neighbours would not speak to him, and his daughter still fighting for justice. was spat at on the bus to school. In one of the most tragic examples, one sub-postmaster took their own life, Mrs Hodgson: My hon. Friend, who chairs the all-party such was the shame, anxiety and stress that the Post parliamentary group on post offices and has long been Office’s heavy-handed pursuit of them brought on. an advocate on this issue, is making a powerful case. Sub-postmasters who were implicated in Horizon’s IT Does she agree that, although the scandal is outrageous failures have been wrongly labelled as criminals, had and should never have happened, the Government and their lives turned upside down and, in some cases, faced Select Committee investigations need to follow the money? decades of debt and social disgrace. People lost their livelihoods to pay that money back, so where did it go? Where was the shortfall? Somewhere, On 11 December, while we were all busy with our there are bulks of money that obviously went to the election campaigns, the sub-postmasters’ fight for justice Post Office, which should use it to pay the legal fees as took a huge step forward. The Post Office agreed to pay part of the compensation. a £58 million settlement to the 557 sub-postmasters who brought court action against it. Mr Justice Fraser Gill Furniss: My hon. Friend makes a key point. noted in his ruling that the Post Office felt entitled to People have paid money, so where is it? That must be at treat sub-postmasters the heart of any investigation. 377WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 378WH

Unfortunately, fundamental corporate change within The hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) the Post Office seems a long way off, given the close asked what hope we can give to the victims about relationship between both current and previous Post timescales. That will obviously depend on the complexity Office officials and the Government. The Post Office is of each case so, yes, although we want to get this dealt being allowed to mark its own homework, meaning that with as soon as possible—it has without doubt been a culture of denial is likely to persist. Could the Minister going on a long time—just having a tick-box approach explain why Paula Vennells, the former chief executive would not be fair on those postmasters or give the of the Post Office, whom Judge Fraser noted was practising answers that we need to move forward. “the 21st-century equivalent of maintaining the earth is flat”, Lucy Allan: Does the Minister agree that the convictions serves in the Cabinet Office? should be treated as a group? They should be overturned The management and governance of the Post Office as a group, with a common theme, rather than individually, were severely criticised by the judges, so I raised the case by case, which would make it a much longer issue with the previous Minister. Will the new Minister process. call for a full review of the governance and management Paul Scully: I will come back to my hon. Friend’s and of the relationship between the two? Furthermore, point in a little more detail, but the way in which our will he look closely at the way in which the National legal system works means that, at the moment, we Federation of Sub-Postmasters, which is fully paid and cannot do that. The CCRC can analyse the cases that resourced by the Post Office, has acted throughout the come before it as a group, and it still needs to do a lot of affair? forensic accounting, but the Court of Appeal can only It is important that the taxpayer is not left to foot the deal with each case individually. The legal structures bill for mistakes made by management. In December 2019, that we have at the moment prevent just one single BEIS paid the Post Office £50 million as a network hearing with a view to taking on board all the people subsidy payment to cover the operating costs for the who have gone through this process. network. Will the Minister assure us that not a penny of that public money will be used to fund the December 2019 Maria Eagle: Will the Minister give way? settlement or any future litigation? Paul Scully: I will give way briefly—the hon. Lady The consistent failings of the Post Office, spanning must be quick, or I will not cover things. more than two decades, have caused immeasurable damage to hundreds of lives. Only now is the full picture beginning Maria Eagle: Will the Minister undertake that the to emerge. I welcome the commitment from the Prime Government will take steps to ensure that those who Minister for a full public inquiry into the issue. I have pleaded guilty will have a chance to have their convictions already written to ask him to confirm that that is the overturned, because that normally would not be the case, and to give me timescales. Unsurprisingly, I have case? not received a letter back to that effect. Paul Scully: I thank the hon. Lady for making that The convictions we have discussed today, however, point. I was going to cover it because, as she said, must be dealt with as a matter of urgency. The Post ordinarily those who had pleaded guilty would not be Office and the Government must wake up and use every able to do that in the system. The whole point about the influence to ensure that the seriousness of the situation CCRC system is that we can allow those people who is realised. I hope this debate is one step in helping to were found guilty to have their cases reviewed—among move this process along. We must secure an independent, the cases that went through, 46 people did indeed plead judge-led inquiry to quash the convictions, to pay up guilty. I can assure her about that. what the convicted have lost and, most of all, to clear Clearly, a lot of the speech I have in front of me talks the names of those hard-working decent people. about the post office network and how important it is for this country and our communities but, begging the 2.50 pm House’s forbearance, we do not need me to cover that. We all know what a great job that post offices do for our The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Business, communities and, therefore, what a great job postmasters Energy and Industrial Strategy (Paul Scully): It is a do for our communities, so I will stick to the questions pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe. that have been asked and where we will go. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Telford The Post Office has accepted that it got things wrong—it (Lucy Allan) on securing this important debate about clearly did, and we have heard that in stark measure the Criminal Cases Review Commission’s review of the today. I am pleased that on 11 December we had a convictions. As we heard, there has been a lot of human comprehensive resolution to the litigation, following cost to what has happened over the past few years, and several days of challenging and ultimately successful as the new Post Office Minister, I will dedicate my time mediation, but there is an ongoing process. Some Members to ensuring that we can see this through, keeping the talked about the settlement, and clearly a number of Post Office on its toes, so that we come to a proper people who had shortfalls in the past were not part of conclusion that means something to the postmasters that group litigation, so there will be an ongoing process who have suffered in the past. We also want to give that the Post Office will announce shortly. I hope that confidence to the postmasters of the future about their some of the other cases will be able to be raised in that. ability to work in the network. We heard about the financial and emotional suffering I am responding to the debate, rather than a Justice that impacted postmasters over so many years. Settling Minister, because, as I suspected, the debate has widened the long-running litigation, therefore, is so important. beyond the CCRC part of the situation. I hope to The Government will challenge the Post Office and its respond more fully to those wider points. new chief executive proactively.I will ensure that happens. 379WH Post Office and Horizon Software5 MARCH 2020 Post Office and Horizon Software 380WH

Andrew Bridgen: Will the Minister give way? people have been convicted and have unsuccessfully appealed, but believe that they have been wrongly convicted Paul Scully: I will not just at the minute, because I or incorrectly sentenced. want to make some progress. The CCRC received 57 applications, all of which I spoke to Nick Read, the new CEO, and what I are being reviewed—the first 20 in 2015 and the most found refreshing about that conversation was that this recent 22 following the settlement in the civil case in guy had been chief executive of Nisa, the association of December 2019. A small number of those applicants independent supermarkets, so he already gets the pleaded guilty at the magistrates court and, normally, relationship, the fact that he is working with people who they would have no ordinary route of appeal, but the own individual independent shops.They were self-employed CCRC provides a way to ensure that we can go through people, so that relationship is similar in some ways to those cases. The CCRC has a team of three case review the Post Office relationship with sub-postmasters. Rather managers working on the cases, supported by a group than treating them as de facto employees, he understands leader, a commissioner and other advisory staff. They the nature of their micro-businesses within the wider have obtained and are reviewing thousands of pages of network. material from the Post Office and other public bodies, and expert forensic accountants have been instructed, Karl Turner: Given that the Minister had an opportunity with the substantial task of examining transaction data to speak to the new chief executive, I wonder whether from a sample branch. the Minister and indeed the new chief executive of Post Gill Furniss: I fear that the Minister does not get it. Office Ltd support an independent, judge-led inquiry. He is still parroting exactly what has been said by The Government need to support that, as does the Post previous Ministers to me. If this had happened to him, Office. and he had lost everything and had his reputation done, he would want an independent judge-led inquiry. In this Paul Scully: We will certainly look at how we can Chamber, we have all made it very clear that that must keep the Post Office on its toes in future and at how to be the outcome. look back to learn the lessons— Paul Scully: I am grateful for the hon. Lady’sintervention, Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con): Will the Minister but she used up a lot of my time. Specifically, we are give way? talking about the CCRC. I want to ensure that I leave my hon. Friend the Member for Telford some seconds Paul Scully: I will not for now, because I must give my at the end. I will continue to look at that. We will hon. Friend the Member for Telford a minute at the end. continue to ensure that sub-postmasters can feel that they will have justice, recompense and the confidence to I do not want to step on the toes of the CCRC’s move forward. investigation or of the things that are happening at the moment. Clearly, however, we need to ensure that lessons 2.59 pm are learned. Over the coming days, we will look to see Lucy Allan: I thank everyone who has participated in what more we can do. the debate. I am truly grateful for the level of support I want to cover the CCRC cases specifically. The and passion that we have heard across the House and litigation that concluded with a judgment on 16 December across the country. We have to recognise that this was a last year only resolved the civil case—it cannot deal unique set of circumstances that deserves a unique with criminal matters. Claimants with convictions are remedy. There is no point hiding behind the CCRC not therefore seeking to have those convictions overturned having a mechanism; we must give the CCRC a by going through a process with the CCRC, which has mechanism—we must invent a mechanism to deal with the power to refer cases to the Court of Appeal. The this, because it is so unique. People have suffered, and independent CCRC plays a vital and valuable role in they will go on suffering if we do not do something maintaining confidence in the criminal justice system. It about it. I urge the Minister, please reread Justice Fraser’s is important to pay tribute to it for its process. The key judgment— role of the commission is to investigate cases in which Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)). 381WH 5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 382WH

Eating Disorders Awareness Week In many well-documented cases they subject themselves to eating habits that, as they see it, enable them to achieve that appearance. However, that is not without [ANDREW ROSINDELL in the Chair] consequence for their mental and physical wellbeing. Let me explain what I mean. The actress and Equity 3 pm activist Jean Rogers has drawn my attention to the work of Dr Sara Reimers of Royal Holloway, University of Sir George Howarth (Knowsley) (Lab): I beg to move, London, on aesthetic labour, which is defined as That this House has considered Eating Disorders Awareness Week 2020. “the employment of workers with desired corporeal dispositions” It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair,Mr Rosindell. whereby May I say how glad I am to have secured this debate “employers intentionally use the embodied attributes and capacities during Eating Disorders Awareness Week? I am glad of employees as a source of competitive advantage.” that we have the opportunity to talk about how people That work formed the basis of the “Making an acquire eating disorders and how they can, or should, Appearance” research she conducted with the Equity be able to get the help they need. women’s committee. Let me place on record my thanks to all the people Maureen Beattie, the president of Equity, has given and organisations who helped me to prepare for this debate. an account of her own eating disorder as an actress, It is a long list, so I hope hon. Members will bear with which she struggled with from the age of 14 to 30. She me, because they deserve to be highlighted: Sandie said: Atkinson from Diabetics with Eating Disorders, Beat Eating Disorders, the Royal College of Psychiatrists, “When I was at drama school I found the mixed messages I received very confusing—on the one hand I was told I was a big, the British Psychoanalytic Council, the Musicians’Union, fat lump of a girl and on the other hand was always cast in Equity the acting union, the British Dietetic Association, leading lady roles which required elegance and charm and Professor Khalida Ismail of King’s College, London, attractiveness. There was a lot of pressure on me to lose weight, Hope Virgo of the Dump the Scales campaign, the but the more the staff (and my parents who were both in the Priory Group, the House of Commons Library, which entertainment industry) lectured me about my weight the more I has produced a really good briefing, as always, the needed to eat. I ate so much I sometimes felt like I had been Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman, which drugged. I realise now I was protecting myself”. has also provided a briefing, and Julia Tyson. She says that the pressure of acting contributes to Some 1.25 million people are living with an eating eating disorders: disorder, 10% of whom suffer with anorexia nervosa, “The feeling of being an object to be pushed and pulled and and 40% with bulimia; the remainder suffer from other commented on and criticised and laughed at by the public is very forms such as binge eating. Research shows that the earlier real to many people.” the treatment is accessed, the better the chance of recovery. Recently, on “Desert Island Discs”, Melanie Chisholm, The figures show that 50% recover and 30% experience the former Spice Girl Mel C, said: some improvement. Worryingly, however, 20% remain “I was described as the plain one at the back…I ended up in a chronic condition. The most common age of onset making myself really ill. I was anorexic for a few years. I was is 15 to 25, although there is growing evidence that exercising obsessively, and I ended up being incredibly depressed. older people are affected as well. I was in denial.” I want to touch on three areas: first, diabulimia, which After being diagnosed, she described going from anorexia is a form of eating disorder that many may be unaware “to having a binge-eating disorder”. of; secondly, the interplay between the entertainment industry and social media, and the impact they have on Tellingly, she concluded that her people’s sense of their own appearance; and thirdly, “appearance began to change, which was the biggest fear”. treatment. In the documentary “Miss Americana”, the hugely Diabulimia is a form of eating disorder that affects successful international singer Taylor Swift talked about thousands of people with type 1 diabetes. We cannot how, as an 18-year-old, she was portrayed on the cover give an accurate figure, because of how incidents are of a magazine. She said: recorded—it will show up as an eating disorder but not “The headline was ‘Pregnant at 18?’ and it was because I had necessarily for somebody who has diabetes. Simply by worn something that made my lower stomach look not flat. So, I withholding insulin, type 1 diabetics are able to attain just registered that as a punishment”. rapid weight loss. There are, however, serious physical Consequently, she said of her performances that she health consequences, and it can be fatal. I will not say too much on this topic, although I will return briefly to “thought I was supposed to feel like I was going to pass out at the it later, other than that the right hon. Member for end of a show, or in the middle of it”. Maidenhead (Mrs May) has agreed to co-chair an inquiry It is not only young women who are affected by eating into this matter with me, which we hope to commence disorders—the singer Sam Smith has talked about starving later in the year. The right hon. Lady and I intend that for weeks to prepare for photoshoots. the inquiry will raise awareness of diabulimia and look A 2016 Credos survey of 1,000 boys aged between at evidence of what practical steps can be taken to eight and 18—“Picture of Health?”—found that 55% improve the treatments available. would consider changing their diet to look better. The relationship between the entertainment industry Interestingly, the survey also found that respondents and eating disorders is complex but real. It has been felt under pressure from other factors to look good, described as a vicious circle, whereby some musicians with 68% citing friends, 58% social media, 53% advertising, and actors are put under pressure to look a certain way. and 49% celebrities. 383WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 384WH

[Sir George Howarth] In last week’s New Statesman, Amelia Tait wrote about personal responsibility for those who engage with Another disturbing aspect is how a performer’s body social media. She stated: shape is changed digitally.Victoria Hesketh, who performs “It’s not up to algorithms to change our behaviour, it’s up to under the name Little Boots, has drawn attention to the us. We have to stop celebrating cruelty with our clicks, and instead use of photoshopping to alter the appearance of artists, make a conscious effort to reward people who are kind to others citing the case of the singer Meghan Trainor, herself a or people who call out poor behaviour when they see it.” campaigner on the misuse of body image, whose 2016 Social media platforms need to recognise how they can video “Me Too” had been digitally manipulated to profoundly affect people’s mental health and behaviour. reduce her waist size without her express consent. Either they accept that responsibility or, sooner rather Ms Hesketh commented in an article in The Independent: than later, they will have to be regulated to do so. We all “This stuff is nothing new, but I’m not sure if people really have an important role to play through the language we realise the extent to which image manipulation really matters, use. When we say things such as, “You need to grow a especially in pop music videos and even more so with female thicker layer of skin”, or “Get a grip”, that is not artists.” helpful. The effort required to tackle an eating disorder She continued: of any description is profound and massive. Simply “I remember a music video director once telling me”— telling people to “get a grip” does no good at all. this is really shocking— I said earlier that I am indebted to the charity Beat, “‘You should have seen Beyoncé’s ass before we got in the edit’.” among others, for its help in preparing for this debate. Its key policy suggestions are based on the current Let us think about the implications of what the editor treatment available for adults, treatment for young people, in those circumstance thought was his responsibility. It medical training and research funding. My constituent is quite frightening. Emily helps raise funds for Beat and has organised In 2011, as part of their “Pretty as a picture” project, sponsored walks with her family and friends, which I Jo Rigby and the advertising think-tank Credos have been pleased to support and I am probably healthier commissioned Panelbase to conduct an online survey of for having taken part. 1,000 girls and young women aged between 10 and 21. Since that time, the fashion industry has become Beat has pointed out: significantly more sensitive about body shape for models, “Adults with eating disorders in England face a postcode which is to be welcomed. The survey found that 53% of lottery” young women took in trying to access treatment. Only 26% of adult patients “inspiration from adverts for their appearance”, commenced treatment at a specialist service within four and that 37% wanted to weeks of being referred. The average wait is nine weeks. In some clinical commissioning groups, adults are first “look like models they see in adverts”, referred to a non-specialist health service or to a panel even though 85% of them for approval before being referred to a specialist service. “recognise that...images in advertising have been altered using That inevitably creates delays, which in some cases can airbrushing.” have tragic consequences. Worryingly, about half of the young women involved Beat and the Royal College of Psychiatrists suggest admitted: that a funded access waiting time standard should be “Seeing adverts using thin models makes me want to diet/lose introduced for all adults with eating disorders in England. weight/feel more conscious of the way I look.” An access and waiting time standard has already been On the issue of social media, Girlguiding UK’s “Girls’ introduced for the treatment of young people with Attitudes Survey 2019” concluded: eating disorders. By 2020-21, it is hoped that 95% of “Girls and young women say they’re aware of the difference children and young people will commence treatment between real life and what they see represented online and in the approved by the National Institute for Health and Care media. Almost half of girls regularly remind themselves that social Excellence within one week of referral for urgent cases media is not a real reflection of others’ lives. One solution may be and within four weeks for less urgent ones. The most making sure airbrushed pictures are always labelled as such, with up-to-date information across clinical commissioning over half of girls agreeing to this. Nearly half of girls agreed there groups, however, shows that the rate for meeting the should be a more diverse range of people on screen too.” urgent referral target varies between 22% at worst and My point in citing those examples is to make a connection 100% at best. Beat is calling for the access and waiting between what we see and the reality of young people time standard for children and young people with an trying to emulate the stars that they see as role models, eating disorder to be met in every area across England. which I described earlier as being a vicious circle. A further concern raised by Beat is that eating disorders Another pressure turbocharges this phenomenon— are not sufficiently covered during medical training. On namely, the way in which social media can serve as a average, medical schools spend less than two hours means of shaming people about their appearance. I teaching about eating disorders. One in five provide no confess that I find that to be an ethical minefield. In an training at all, and many do not even include a question open society, we rightly defend the principle of freedom on eating disorders in their final exams. As one fourth-year of speech, but when that freedom normalises abuse and medical student put it: shaming, the platforms and the individuals who use “We don’t get any clinical skills experience.” them surely have to take responsibility for what is said and the potential consequences. What might seem a bit For those reasons, Beat recommends: of fun can very easily have devastating consequences “Eating disorders are appropriately taught and assessed at all when it targets people in such a way as to drive them medical schools”, towards eating disorders. and that all junior doctors in the UK 385WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 386WH

“gain...clinical experience during their foundation training.” to the suggestions that DWED, Beat, and Dump the The Royal College of Psychiatrists has called on the Scales have made about eating disorders, and will she Government to double the number of medical school undertake to respond in some form of written statement places in order to provide the specialists needed to help when she has had the opportunity to look at them more people with eating disorders. I echo that call. carefully? Secondly, will she undertake a review of the Beat’s final point relates to research funding. Given long-term effectiveness of cognitive behavioural therapy that the broader category of mental health accounts for to assess its efficacy for treating eating disorders? Thirdly, 23% of NHS activity in 2018-19, 10% of the Department will she undertake to meet representative bodies of the of Health’s research funding goes to mental health entertainment industry,Equity and the Musicians’Union, research, with just 0.09% devoted to eating disorders. to discuss the relationship between the promotion of a That amounts to 96p per sufferer,compared with £228 per certain type of body image and the way in which it can person spent on vital cancer research that has led to affect young people? Finally, will she hold a similar survival rates for cancer doubling over the past 40 years. meeting with social media providers to discuss what I mention that not to suggest that too much money is more they should do to prevent their platforms from being spent on cancer research, but because it shows enabling abusive behaviour, which shames some young that if more money is put into research, results follow. people into acquiring eating disorders? Beat is calling for a “significant increase” in funding for I hope we can agree that the issue of eating disorders research into eating disorders. is in need of urgent attention, not least because of the Hope Virgo of the Dump the Scales campaign last serious implications it has for the health and wellbeing week launched the z-cards campaign, a guidance resource of so many people and their families. for those with eating disorders and those supporting them. It has the timely and important aim 3.25 pm “to raise awareness of eating disorders” Sir Charles Walker (Broxbourne) (Con): It is a great and provide pleasure to follow my right hon. Friend the Member for “an educational piece for all frontline staff.” Knowsley (Sir George Howarth). I call him my right Dump the Scales is asking the Government to recommit hon. Friend because I have been working with him on to NICE guidance 1.2.8: diabulimia. He has huge expertise in the area and I am “Do not use single measures such as BMI or duration of illness rather new to the field. I shall be brief. to determine whether to offer treatment for an eating disorder.” We are all occasionally touched by surgery cases we The Royal College of Psychiatrists makes the same get, and about 10 months ago a couple came to see point. Hope Virgo is also calling for support for the me whose daughter had recently taken her life after a roll-out of the z-card, training for GPs on eating disorders, long battle with diabulimia. It is terribly distressing to and the development of a meaningful way of measuring talk to parents who have lost a child to suicide, and the implementation of the guidelines, together with an perhaps even more so given the terrible background to annual implementation review. that suicide—although all suicides are to be mourned I want to deal with the question of the best form of equally. The Minister has been fantastic. I have been in treatment for eating disorders. I have spoken to many correspondence with her about the case, and about people who have experienced them, and some believe diabulimia. that long-term residential treatment, sometimes including For the record, I shall give a quick overview of what cognitive behavioural therapy, has been beneficial. There led to the tragedy of a young woman aged 27, who was is, however, no consensus about cognitive behavioural a teacher, taking her own life. She had suffered with therapy. Some experienced psychiatric specialists argue eating disorders for a number of years and was diagnosed that although it may be a short-term way of dealing with type 1 diabetes. As her parents said, she became with the immediate problem it is not necessarily a long-term giddy with joy. This is not a normal reaction when solution, in that it does not address the underlying someone is diagnosed with diabetes. She was giddy with cause of the disorder. I do not intend to draw any joy because she realised that as a sufferer of diabetes, conclusions on that difference of professional opinion she could suppress her weight through insulin abuse. In because, frankly, I do not feel equipped to do so, but I her parents’ words, the prescribing of insulin weaponised will refer back to the matter shortly. Some treatments at her eating disorder. private healthcare facilities have been cited as having a The concern that I and the young woman’s parents positive effect on people’s eating disorders. However, have, which I have raised with the Minister, is that too such treatment can be very expensive and is usually many healthcare professionals are unsighted in this beyond the means of most sufferers and their families. area. When they prescribe insulin to an adolescent Sandie Atkinson of Diabetics with Eating Disorders female or young woman, they are not alive to the risk has said that there is still a desperate need to make that there may be an undiagnosed or undeclared eating insulin omission for weight loss, also known as diabulimia, disorder, or an underlying risk of an eating disorder, a diagnosable condition. DWED supports the use of and that what is actually happening is that someone “type 1 eating disordered”, or T1ED, as an umbrella with a severe condition, or a propensity to a severe term for all disordered eating occurring in type 1 diabetes. condition, is being handed a toxic substance that might The diagnosis would include subcategories for anorexia, save their life in one way but lead to the loss of it in bulimia and diabulimia, as insulin omission can occur another. There is a need for really strong background separately or alongside other eating disorder symptoms. discussions with young women and girls when they are I have a number of questions I want to address to the diagnosed with type 1 diabetes about their mental wellbeing Minister, although I do not necessarily expect answers and whether there is any danger of an eating disorder to all of them today.First, will she give careful consideration being present. 387WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 388WH

[Sir Charles Walker] Ultimately, through our contact with him and the Health Minister here, we were able to get that young lady over I have taken the case up with the Minister and I pay from Northern Ireland, where there did not seem to be tribute to her. She is aware that the NHS is currently anything in place to help, to St Thomas’s Hospital just piloting services joining up treatment for diabetes and across the way from where we are now. Ultimately, the for eating disorders in London and on the south coast. medical care it was able to offer saved that young girl’s Our most recent correspondence was last summer and I life. It is as simple, as graphic and as honest as that. I hope that, if not today, at some stage the Government would like to put on the record my thanks to the will be able to update the House as to the success of the Minister at that time and to St Thomas’s for giving that pilots and whether they will lead to a wider roll-out. family the treatment and help they needed. As the Minister said in her letter, the pilots will The wonderful thing about that story—again, I will provide a valuable insight into the impact insulin prescribing mention no names—is that that young girl is now has on individuals at risk of developing eating disorders, married. She is still one of my constituents, as indeed and they are an important step forward in recognising are her mum and dad, and she has two young children. I and treating diabulimia and minimising its devastating had not seen her for a few years, but before the election impact on patients and their families. That is exactly I knocked her door. She came to the door looking what we want to hear from the Department of Health, extremely well, and she reminded me of that story. I and I congratulate it on recognising the scale of the wanted to tell it today to add to the interactions described problem. The Minister went on to say that raising by the hon. Member for Broxbourne and the right hon. awareness among health professionals and alerting them Member for Knowsley. Things can be changed if the to the risk associated with insulin and eating disorders right measures are in place to make that happen. is one of the Government’s priorities. I asked the Minister back in January how many The debate is hugely timely. I hope that further people were recorded as having had eating disorders measures will emerge from it across the NHS—across over the past five years.The answer was not straightforward. GP and mental health surgeries—that contribute to That moves us to the crux of the issue: the differing ensuring that no families have to lose a child in the way diagnostic processes. The Minister’s response read: my constituents did. “The following tables show the number of people referred to specialist secondary mental health services with a primary diagnosis 3.29 pm of eating disorders from 2014/15 to 2015/16, and the number of people referred to specialist secondary mental health services Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): I thank the right with a primary reason for referral of eating disorders from hon. Member for Knowsley (Sir George Howarth) for 2016/17 to 2018/19.” bringing the debate forward. I am pleased to participate The figure was 4,513 in 2014-15 and 3,895 in 2015-16. in it. I, too, have had constituents who have had eating The source for those two years is the NHS Digital disorders over the years, so this is an opportunity to mental health and learning disabilities dataset. In 2016-17, highlight those issues and look to the Minister for a the figure jumped to 11,207, and in 2017-18 it increased positive response—no doubt we will get one. It is good to 18,224. In 2018-19, there was a massive jump of to follow the hon. Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles more than 4,000, to 22,336. Walker), and I thank him for his contribution. Until the right hon. Member for Knowsley told me about it some The Minister’s answer continued: time ago, I was not aware of the issue of eating disorders “There are two matters to consider when looking at the MHSDS among people with diabetes. data: It is good to have the opportunity to speak about Diagnosis recording is known to be low. Of the people in eating disorders, which are serious mental illnesses that contact with these services on 31 October 2018, for example, a deserve to be dealt with in that vein. My interest in the diagnosis was recorded for only 22.3% of people. Therefore, the number of people with a primary reason for referral of ‘eating issue came from sitting with a friend of mine—a father disorders’ for 2016/17, 2017/18 and 2018/19 is provided, rather a who was at his wits’ end trying to get his daughter, who count of people diagnosed with an eating disorder.” was suffering from an eating disorder, the help she needed. That was way back when I first came here, That probably means that in 2014-15 and 2015-16 a between 2010 and 2012. He did not give up. Neither did large number of people had similar problems but were I—and neither did the Minister responsible for health not referred. That is what the Minister acknowledged in back in Northern Ireland or the Health Minister here. It her response. If we have a problem even counting how was a combination of both that brought about the many people have a disorder, how on earth do we find success that we had hoped for. The Minister in Northern them the help they need? Ireland managed to make changes to how things were The charities that work with those struggling with approached there. The result of that was that we—not their eating are a little clearer about how they work things me, but the Minister at the time—made legislative changes out. The right hon. Member for Knowsley referred to and changes to the provision of in-patient care specifically Beat—I thank both it and the Library for the information for those suffering from eating disorders. they sent us—which estimates that there are some That story is very poignant. I will not mention any 1.25 million people in the UK with an eating disorder. names, but that young lady had severe eating disorders. That is not in any way reflected in the Government’s Unfortunately, she had hidden much of it from her figure of 22,000. If it is anywhere near the truth, Beat’s parents, whom I knew extremely well; they both were in figure cannot be ignored. an occupation that I had a particular interest in. They Beat stated: had approached the Department of Health back home “The most common age of onset is 15-25 years old, during a but had not really got the response they wanted, so I developmentally sensitive time. Anorexia has the highest mortality met Edwin Poots, who was Health Minister at that time. rate of any mental illness, and the mortality rates of the other 389WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 390WH eating disorders are also high. People with eating disorders typically and mother’s good looks—but never do I want them develop severe physical health problems and overall quality of life not to see what I see when I look at them. If, God has been estimated to be as low as in symptomatic coronary heart forbid, there was a problem, I would want to know that disease or severe depression.” the NHS had not simply the finance but, more importantly, That demonstrates the magnitude and severity of the the understanding of how and when to intervene. That issue. Beat continued: is not simply when the scales show the correct small “Without early intervention, many become unable to participate number. in education or employment.” Some 1.25 million people in the UK currently live with 3.41 pm an eating disorder, while 10% of people affected by an eating disorder suffer from anorexia and 40% suffer Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and from bulimia. The rest of sufferers, including those with Lesmahagow) (SNP): It is a pleasure to serve under binge eating disorders, fall into the “other specified your chairmanship, Mr Rosindell. I thank the right feeding or eating disorders” category. There are some hon. Member for Knowsley (Sir George Howarth) for very complex examples of those problems. introducing the debate, particularly in Eating Disorders Research suggests that the earlier treatment is sought, Awareness Week, on such an important issue that is the better the sufferer’s chance of recovery. That is the often overlooked because it is hidden. He was fastidious case with almost every disease: early diagnosis always in detailing so many of the crucial aspects of eating helps to address something early, solve problems and disorders and how our popular culture impacts on so raise awareness. Some 50% of eating disorder sufferers many. I think it will go on to affect more young people go on to recover. That is encouraging, but it tells us that as it grows under the social media stresses and pressures 50% continue to have problems. Only 30% improve, and put on them. 20% remain in a chronic condition; many continue to I was thinking back to when I first started to think suffer way beyond their alarming early conditions. Those about appearances, which was probably when I was in high figures highlight the serious issues with the availability my mid-teens, but my daughter, aged 11, is already of holistic treatment. looking on Instagram and so aware of how she looks I wholeheartedly support the Dump the Scales campaign, and how many friends she has on social media. Those which would bin the GP regulations enforcing a minimum are not what I would call actual friendships, but these weight or BMI before a diagnosis can be given. Indeed, days it is all about social perception, and the pressures I support calls for GP retraining on this issue. I am very and stresses we put on young people through social respectful of our GPs, who are wonderful people. They media, which remains largely unregulated, are astronomical. do great work, but sometimes we need a better We are creating a mental health catastrophe that is understanding of eating disorders. We should not insist coming down the line for our young people. It will on certain categories in relation to eating disorders or impact on men, who are not immune, but it impacts insist that people get on the scales. I think it is important significantly on young women. I see that in young children to address that. of primary school age: my daughter and her friends very much relate to pictures of one another online and I am a type 2 diabetic. Whenever I go down to the how they look. A societal image of perfectionism is being doctor, he weighs me and refers to my BMI, and he tells created that is very unhealthy for people’s mental health. me whether I am on the right or wrong side of it. Thank goodness, this last while I have been on the right side of Eating Disorders Awareness Week is running this it. I try to keep careful control of what I eat and how month, raising awareness of a disorder that, as has been much I eat. said, affects 1.25 million people across the UK. When I worked as a psychologist in mental health services, I When a parent, a carer or a sufferer themselves was aware how even then it was not a key focus in our realises that all is not okay with their mindset towards training. Mental health professionals could benefit from food, palming them off with a little leaflet or a referral—I much more in-depth training in eating disorders. When mean this respectfully—to yoga classes, as sometimes I was at Glasgow University, we benefited from the happens, is not enough. I am not saying that yoga is not psychologist who came to train us having a specialist good to do—I have never done it and have no knowledge interest in the area. He is long retired and I do not know of it—but to say that that is a way to solve someone’s if anyone has taken his place, but training was very eating disorder is a wee bit crass, to say the least. We much dependent on individuals who had developed must get on with early diagnosis and intervention, specialist expertise coming and lending that expertise, rather than effectively saying to people, “You aren’t because those in training may not meet or have clinical skinny enough yet to merit help,” because they are. experience of treating people with eating disorders unless The starting point must be the first realisation that they go on to do a specialist placement. Many of the there is a problem. When the parents of the young girl I professionals we are bringing through across the United mentioned earlier realised that their daughter had a Kingdom will not necessarily feel that they have sufficient problem, they addressed it early on. A doctor has never expertise to treat eating disorders. We need to address asked me to be tired for six months before checking the that, particularly because, as has been said, it is not the iron in my blood. He carries out a test to ensure that kind of difficulty where people often come forward and nothing is wrong. We start at the beginning and do not say, “I have an eating disorder.” Clinicians, trying to waste six months to see what it is. Why must we wait form a picture on presentation of someone who might until someone is dangerously underweight before we come with a diagnosis of depression or trauma, may offer them help when, in some cases, that is just too late? notice a larger clinical picture not in the referral, but I am fortunate to have two granddaughters who are they require that expertise to pick up those symptoms extremely beautiful, not like their grandfather—and early on. We know that earlier intervention creates a they will be glad to hear that; they have their grandmother’s much better outcome for those with these conditions. 391WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 392WH

[Dr Lisa Cameron] well as the support they need. It is vital that parents and carers have that support because dealing with an eating The other important issue I want to bring up is the disorder can take an enormous emotional toll upon an Dump the Scales campaign, which I looked at while entire family. We need to look at people’s mental health other hon. Members were talking. There may be more in a holistic manner. obvious signs of weight loss in individuals who present We need to do much more, right across the United with anorexia, but those with bulimia are often bingeing Kingdom, in relation to access to treatment for those and then purging, so there may not be noticeable weight who have eating disorders. We have come some way, but loss. Such disorders can become extremely chronic before we need to raise more awareness at different levels anyone picks up the symptoms. Certainly, one symptom within the system. GP training has been mentioned. We of the disorders is denial and attributing difficulties also need a public awareness campaign, because often elsewhere. peers or families pick up the initial symptoms, and Dump the Scales is important, because my understanding medical training for psychiatrists and those working in is that BMI has to be at a certain level for a referral. We mental health. From my own training, I do not think need to move on from that in clinical practice and look those professionals have the level of training necessary much more widely. I have just looked up the criteria in to treat people in primary mental health care, which is ICD-10 and, while they may have moved on, there are a often where an eating disorder might be picked up number of symptoms and BMI is one of them. That initially before it is referred on to secondary community needs to be considered, because, as I said, the person is mental health teams. not likely to come with a presentation of eating disorders in the first place and then, if some of the clinical Jim Shannon: I am thinking about the dangers of symptoms are so stark that they cannot be referred on social media and how it affects children and young to appropriate services so quickly, that creates another people. Could the dangers of social media be made barrier to getting the treatment they so desperately need. clear at an early stage, perhaps at school? The perfect Family support is another matter that we often overlook body,clothes, hair and everything become things everyone but need to focus on. We really need to get family wants, whereas the reality of getting them is quite members on board in order to have holistic treatment, different. For instance, in some photographs, models’ particularly for young people’s mental health. It would six packs or their weight are actually changed digitally. be helpful to know more about what is being done in Social media has a lot to answer for. relation to family systems therapy and family therapy. Dr Cameron: The hon. Gentleman is entirely correct. I was trained in the cognitive behavioural therapy Social media often creates a false world that none of us model when I was practising, but it was very much a can ever live up to. That is why I welcome the Government’s formulation-based model. I do not think eight sessions work on social media, which is looking at potential of CBT would necessarily be effective for people who regulation and other issues in relation to the impact on have a long-standing chronic illness or perhaps other mental health. underlying issues such as trauma that need to be resolved. We need a flexible system to ensure that a person’s care This is an excellent pivotal debate, but it is not the pathway is at the level of service they need for the finishing point. It is most definitely the starting point chronicity of their difficulties. for taking these issues forward on a cross-party basis. I look forward to working with everyone who has an It has not passed me by that it is International interest in this field, to support progress for those who Women’s Day this week, so it is apt to have this debate have eating disorders across the United Kingdom. on eating disorders awareness, which an issue that is likely to affect so many young people—overwhelmingly women, but also men—who face this social pressure. 3.53 pm I will finish with a few things that the Scottish Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab): It Government are trying to do. This is an area where we is a pleasure to speak in this debate with you in the should share best practice and have much collaboration Chair, Mr Rosindell. I congratulate my right hon. Friend across the UK, and I would like to see that and be part the Member for Knowsley (Sir George Howarth) on of it. It is excellent for the way forward that an all-party securing this important and timely debate, and for the parliamentary group has been reconstituted. excellent way he opened it, which was very helpful. It Last year, the Scottish Government created an online has been a compact debate, but he covered a wide range peer support tool specifically for this issue to allow in what he said. young people to pair with a trained volunteer, who had I welcome the contributions of the hon. Member for themselves recovered from an eating disorder. That is Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker), particularly when he important because peer-to-peer support can be extremely spoke about the moving case of his young constituent helpful, particularly for young people. At certain stages who took her own life, which is always sad to hear; the in life we may speak to our parents more or less readily, hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), and the depending upon our stage of development, and for SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for East Kilbride, adolescents, among whom a higher percentage of eating Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron). I agree disorders initially develop, peer-to-peer support will with her about using the debate today as a starting provide an excellent starting point for treatment. point. There is much that we should be talking about. The website caredscotland.co.uk is an information As we have heard, eating disorders are serious mental platform for parents and carers. We must ensure that illnesses that affect too many people in this country. It is parents and carers, who are, most often, going to be the estimated that there are currently 1.25 million people in ones who pick up the initial signs, have awareness, as the UK with an eating disorder. It is a serious issue that 393WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 394WH we should be talking about, even more so because that not always lead to excessive weight loss. My right hon. is only an estimate as we do not have reliable data on the Friend and the hon. Member for Strangford talked prevalence of eating disorders in the UK. The hon. about Hope Virgo, the campaigner who leads the Dump Member for Strangford talked about that; it is an issue the Scales campaign. That campaign tells us that clinicians that we must take forward from the debate today. It is are still using measures such as BMI to assess whether part of a broader problem with our data on mental someone is eligible for eating disorder treatment, as I health conditions, although we must acknowledge that was told by the young person I met this week. some of it comes down to the stigmatisation of eating That is another instance where NICE guidelines are disorders. not being correctly followed, meaning people are being Eating disorders can affect people of all ages, from turned down for the support they should receive. Is instances among children as young as six years old, someone who has been told they are ineligible for help which should alarm us, to women in their seventies. after visiting their GP really going to go back and ask Around three quarters of people with an eating disorder again and again, until they get the help they need? Or are women but, as we have heard in the debate, eating are they going to struggle with their eating disorder, disorders also affect men. We need to be careful not to potentially deteriorating to the point where they need to stereotype when we describe people affected by eating be admitted to hospital? disorders because it can deter men and young men from Weshould emphasise that the situation is not necessarily seeking help. the result of medical professionals not caring about Anorexia has the highest mortality rate among all eating disorders, but a reflection of the fact that medical psychiatric disorders because of the severe medical schools have less than two hours’ training on eating complications that it can cause, but all eating disorders disorders across the average medical degree. In fact, one have an impact on the daily life of people who live with in five medical schools do not cover eating disorders at them. It is vital that eating disorder services are there to all and, where they are covered, the subject is not in the support people when they need it. It is my belief that final exam, meaning students will give it a lower priority. too often people with eating disorders are being let We see doctors who think people cannot have an down by our NHS, and those of us who are interested eating disorder if they have a healthy BMI, family GPs in this must take that forward from here. who are not confident that they should make an urgent Someone with an eating disorder will currently wait referral to a specialist service and many doctors who an average of three and a half years before receiving have never seen a patient with an eating disorder before. treatment. Too often someone goes to their GP to ask The Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman for help, but simply does not get it, as we have heard. and the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs The eating disorder charity Beat, which we have all Committee have both recognised this and call for all rightly mentioned in our speeches, found that nearly doctors to receive proper training on eating disorders. one in three people who seek a referral to an eating The General Medical Council has said that it will engage disorder service did not get one from the first GP to with medical schools on the lack of training, but that is whom they spoke. These delays clearly go against the a long way from guaranteeing that all newly-qualified NICE guidance on ensuring prompt access to specialist doctors will have basic levels of knowledge on eating services, and they come with an enormous emotional disorders. toll for the person involved. The hon. Member for Will the Minister act as a champion for improved Broxbourne talked about where that emotional toll can training on eating disorders, so that patients can see a take somebody. Imagine having finally built up the doctor who has a basic understanding of what an eating confidence to go and ask for help only to be told, “You disorder is and of how important it is that a patient sees won’t get to see a specialist”. a specialist? That would be a first step in ensuring that Earlier this week, I spoke to people who are now the NHS gives people with eating disorders the support recovering or recovered from eating disorders, who told they need. I say a first step, because even when people me about their struggles to get support. I thank Beat for can secure a referral to a specialist eating disorder organising that meeting with MPs. One person was told service, there is no guarantee that they will then get the by a doctor that she weighed too much to have treatment help they need. for an eating disorder, despite weighing only 38 kg, which Colleagues have brought a number of statistics into is less than 6 stone. Let us imagine that weight. I also the debate. In 2017-18, an adult referred to a specialist heard about a doctor praising over-exercising, as if that eating disorder service could expect to have to wait an were a good thing. We heard from my right hon. Friend average of nine weeks to start treatment. That is clearly the Member for Knowsley that Mel C had the problem not good enough. In no other area of mental health of obsessively exercising, which is another way people would we accept a wait of more than two months to see can seek to lose weight. Finally, a person was told that a specialist. The Government seem to have accepted she needed to find the willpower just to eat. My right that in the case of children and young people, where we hon. Friend rightly criticised the attitude of underestimating are finally seeing the introduction of waiting time targets, the difficultly of the condition and the danger of the but waiting time targets for adult services are still being “just get a grip” attitude. We have to get over that and piloted. Can the Minister tell us why that is the case and clearly it is even more damaging when it comes from when the Government will introduce waiting time targets clinicians. for adult eating disorder services, to ensure that everyone People with bulimia have been denied treatment based can access timely support? on the frequency, or lack of frequency, of their bingeing Simply setting targets will not solve this problem. I and purging episodes. The continued focus on weight am afraid we are seeing that in services for children and that we have talked about is particularly concerning as young people where, despite some progress since the bulimia, along with other over-eating disorders, does introduction of targets, people with eating disorders 395WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 396WH

[Barbara Keeley] 4.4 pm still face a postcode lottery up and down the country. In The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health my constituency, 97% of young people referred to a and Social Care (Ms Nadine Dorries): It is a pleasure to specialist eating disorder service are seen within a month, serve under your chairmanship,Mr Rosindell. I congratulate but if they live just yards away, across the border in the right hon. Member for Knowsley (Sir George Howarth) Wigan, the chances of their being seen in that timeframe —my right hon. Friend, if I may call him that—on fall to 66%. That is not good enough. We need all areas securing this important debate on eating disorders awareness of the country to be given the resources they need to during Eating Disorders Awareness Week. give people with eating disorders appropriate and timely This is a subject close to my heart; it is a subject that support. we talk about frequently over at the Department and it is on the desk. It is so important because, as I think the Sometimes the right support can mean the person hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara with an eating disorder getting hospital treatment, but Keeley) mentioned, the morbidity rates among young there are only 649 specialist in-patient beds for people women suffering with eating disorders are the worst of with eating disorders in England, and just 249 of those any mental health issue. It is the most serious of all are for children and young people. According to NHS mental health issues that children and young people, data, the most common age for admission to hospital and indeed adults, can suffer from. That is why it has for eating disorders is 13 to 15. More than 4,400 children such a high priority within the Department. were admitted to hospital for eating disorder treatment last year. People with eating disorders often suffer in silence, butEatingDisordersAwarenessWeekbringsthisimportant When their local hospital does not have enough beds, issue out into the open and provides information and children are being sent miles away from their families advice for those who seek help. I pay tribute to all those for special treatment, because the NHS does not have whoareworkinghardtoraiseawarenessof eatingdisorders, the resources to treat them closer to their homes. My in particular the charity Beat, which hon. Members will right hon. Friend the Member for Knowsley also raised know is supported by the Government and does so the issue of the use of private healthcare companies and much to support young people through its helplines and private hospitals; too often, in the case of beds not support groups. I have met with Beat and I am incredibly being available, the NHS relies on private healthcare impressed by the charity. It does incredibly good work. companies to deliver the services. My concern is that many of those services have been falling well below the We also have passionate and committed individual standards expected. Some 28 privately-run mental health campaigners such as Hope Virgo, who has been mentioned units have been rated as inadequate by the Care Quality a couple of times today. They are also doing much to Commission in the past three years. Vulnerable people raise the profile of eating disorders and to show people with mental health conditions deserve much better. who are suffering from an eating disorder that, as hard as that is, it is possible to fight them and to get well. Another issue worth mentioning is that the available As I have said, eating disorders are serious and life- treatment does not match the length of duration of threatening conditions; they can be devastating for those adult eating disorders, even when a patient can have who are suffering, their family members and the people treatment. Two thirds of adult eating disorders last for around them. That is why we want to ensure that people three years or longer,but the current NICE-recommended have access to the right mental health support in the adult out-patient therapies span only one year,or something right place and at the right time. Improving eating like 20 to 40 sessions, 30% of which will be in-patient disorder services is a key priority for the Government, services. Fewer than 20% recover. There is a mismatch as I have said, and is a vital part of our work to improve in the resources, there is a mismatch in the number of mental health services. We know that the earlier an beds and there is a mismatch in the length of time that intervention is made and treatment provided, the greater therapies last. If we catapult somebody out of a service the chance of recovery. before they are recovered, then clearly there will be a relapse. We need more research on that, and the NHS needs more mental health beds to cope with demand. Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con): The waiting time figures for child eating disorder appointments in My final point is that services also need to be properly London show 97.1% of urgent cases being seen within funded. The Minister will know that for too long we one week and 92.8% of routine cases being seen within have seen money intended for mental health services four. In my constituency, the figures are 78.6% and diverted to meet other short-term financial concerns in 78.3% in the same circumstances. Does my hon. Friend the NHS. Given the pressure on NHS services now that the Minister agree that, as part of our great levelling-up we have the coronavirus to deal with, one can see that agenda for this country,the young people in my community there will be even greater pressure not to spend money in Rother Valley and across South Yorkshire deserve on mental health, but to spend it on other services. the same waiting times for eating disorder services as Until mental health funding is both increased and Londoners currently enjoy? ring-fenced, mental health services will remain a lower priority than patching up buildings, meeting demand Ms Dorries: I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. for physical health services or even increasing services I will go on to talk about waiting times, but he is to deal with coronavirus. If we want to see eating absolutely right. It is a trial that we have rolled out to disorder services improve, we must do everything we ensure that, across the country, anybody who presents can to ensure that mental health services are properly with a serious first instance eating disorder is seen funded, starting with increasing and then ring-fencing within one week and routine cases are seen with specialist the funding. help within four weeks.1 That has been rolled out and 1.[Official Report, 19 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 12MC.] 397WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 398WH tested across the country by NHS England, and I am Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) incredibly impressed at some of the statistics that I am (Con): I thank the Minister for giving way; there is hearing; I thank the hon. Member for Worsley and nothing more aggravating than somebody coming very Eccles South for citing her own constituency. late to a debate, but I have been in the International This is a trial and, as we know, everybody has yet to Women’s Day debate all afternoon. On relapse or eating meet the standards; that is the responsibility also of the disorders continuing into adulthood, does she agree clinical commissioning groups, because this is quite that we have made massive strides forward in treatment complicated.1 I will go on to talk about that, but I am for young people, but that there remains a problem of actually impressed even with those statistics, considering transition when sufferers turn 18? For those who develop what it was like before. I am pleased to hear the figures an eating disorder slightly after their teenage years, or that my hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley even well into adulthood, there is still a challenge in (Alexander Stafford) quotes for his constituency, but accessingservicesforthosenoteligibleforchildren’sservices. they do have to be, to quote a phrase, “levelled up” along with everywhere else. Ms Dorries: My right hon. Friend makes an important We know that the earlier an intervention is made and point. That is why we invested £2.3 billion in mental treatment provided, the more successful it is. One of the health services, which, as I always say, is more than half services in our mental health profile, which is not focused the entire prison estate budget. We are focusing on on eating disorders but which I am particularly impressed young people and young women in this debate, but with, is the trailblazer schemes that we have rolling out funding for mental health services is growing faster into schools. Staff working on the schemes can pick up than the overall NHS budget. That funding and the young people’s eating disorders at the very first signs. development of community services is there to pick up Outcomes are promising if they intervene at that very exactly the cases she cites. first stage, because the pattern of behaviour does not become established or embedded. They can intervene No mental health service, other than the very extreme, very early on. is better delivered in a hospital than in the community, whether for children, young people or adults. Despite On the point from my hon. Friend the Member for that investment in community mental health services, Rother Valley, we set up the first standard to improve our challenge is unprecedented, and our challenge is access to eating disorder services for children and young about workforce—it is about attracting people to work people to ensure that, by the end of 2021, 95% of all in this arena and to help us develop the community children and young people with an eating disorder will services that we need to provide treatment for adults receive treatment within one week for urgent cases, and and young people. That is the challenge we have taken within four weeks for routine cases. We are on track to on, and it is a challenge that we are meeting and moving meet that commitment, and figures I have seen today forward with. It is our ambition and my absolute hope suggest that we may be on track to meet it early, which that children, young people and adults, regardless of would be fantastic. their age—this illness is severe, whether in adults or The number of people seeking treatment for eating children and young people—receive the treatment they disorders is sadly rising—or maybe it is a good thing, require, when they require it. because people are not so stigmatised, are aware that help is there and are seeking it. However, that rise Jim Shannon: These plans will require a close working makes even more encouraging the corresponding increase relationship between the Department of Health and in the number of patients who actually receive the care Social Care and the Department for Education. I am that they need. In-patient treatment should be a last sure that that is what the Minister refers to, but will she resort, which is why in 2014 the Government announced confirm that that is the case? a £150-million investment to expand community-based eating disorder care. We are making good on that Ms Dorries: Absolutely, and the Green Paper, which I promise, and as a result, 70 dedicated new or extended am sure the hon. Gentleman will be aware of, references community services are now open or in development. the mental health of young people in schools. However, Indeed, I visited one myself and met the amazing it is also about the trailblazer schemes, peer support staff who work there—it takes incredible skills to work workers and other people who go into schools who with people who suffer from eating disorders—and specialise in how to identify this and pick it up. Teachers some of the sufferers, and saw that work taking place. have a huge job, and I think if we were to say that they People who go into these units are usually there for needed to pick up when someone is suffering from an quite a while; it takes some time to work through this. eating disorder, they would probably throw their hands However, the outcomes looked incredibly promising, up, because it requires specialised training. It is a skill, particularly for the young women I spoke to. The fact and it takes careful handling when identifying someone that we have 70 of those dedicated units open now, or who is suffering from an eating disorder. So yes, of about to open, across the country is an incredible step course we work across Departments, but it is those forward in addressing this problem. specialised and trained mental health workers in schools That has led to sufferers receiving swift access to who will pick this up. treatment within the community, because it is important that they receive treatment near to where they live, close Barbara Keeley: We have a few moments left, so I to their families, schools and friends, and that their refer the Minister back to the point I raised about treatment causes as little disruption to their lives as relapse. We are largely talking about adults, and there is possible. By improving care in the community, we can a mismatch between the average duration of an adult improve outcomes and recovery, reduce rates of relapse eating disorder—a large number of patients have severe and prevent eating disorders continuing into adulthood, and enduring illnesses—and the shortness of the therapies which is really important. that they get. Professor Janet Treasure told me that a 1.[Official Report, 19 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 12MC.] 399WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 400WH

[Barbara Keeley] incredibly positive meeting, but that is something that needs to continue, because when it comes to social solution could be to increase the knowledge and skills media interactors, providers and platforms need to be of patients with those long, enduring conditions and aware of the impact that their forums have on young their carers, so that they can self-manage the illness in women, so we are continuing that dialogue with them parallel with clinical care. She is working on a pilot of and, I hope, are continuing to push that point. that. I do not know if the Minister has heard about The right hon. Gentleman made a point about the that, but I wanted to raise it as something that we ought entertainment industry and its relationship and to give attention to. responsibilities with regard to body image. I announced two weeks ago that I am holding a roundtable with the Ms Dorries: That is incredibly interesting. I had not entertainment industry. That was as a result of the heard about it, but I am sure that my officials will take death of Caroline Flack, who took her own life. For me, note of it. We have an open door for anything that we that was a watershed moment. It is time for the can identify that helps us in targeting and providing entertainment industry to be aware that it does not have services. We are looking for solutions to the problem. a duty of care only to the people who they take on a As I said, the money is there. Claire Murdoch, who I contract to work with them. This is not just about mention in almost every debate, and Professor Tim sudden fame and reputation loss. The industry has a Kendall are rolling out mental health services across the wider responsibility in relation to images that it projects country via NHS England. They have probably heard and how it projects them, because young women and, of it and are probably looking at it, but I am sure that indeed, many people absolutely are influenced by what we will take note and check if that is the case. they see—their perceived role models—through the lens Although eating disorders are commonly first experienced of television or the cinema. The entertainment industry by people when they are young, they can continue into definitely has a responsibility, so in response to the right adulthood. Following a report on how NHS eating hon. Gentleman’s question, I can say that I have already disorder services were failing patients, NHS England put that in train. convened a working group with Health Education England, In relation to a review of the long-term effectiveness the Department of Health and Social Care and other of CBT, I defer to the expertise and knowledge of our partners, which goes to the point that my right hon. friend from the Scottish National party, the hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Caroline Nokes) made. We are working in collaboration (Dr Cameron), who made the point that short-term to address the report’s recommendations and to take CBT may not be as effective, in terms of how it is them into account when planning for improvements to delivered, for such long-term conditions. It may be part adult eating disorder services. Work is in progress on that. of the treatment, but as we know, when it comes to We are continuing the investment in mental health eating disorders, treatment is very prolonged in some services through the NHS long-term plan, as I think cases. I am sure that CBT has a definite role, but it most people know.The £2.3 billion is with NHS England, should not be seen in isolation. Management of eating which has a long-term plan to deliver on mental health disorders takes the input of physicians and psychologists— and is moving at incredible pace. Even today, although people who are expert in managing these conditions it is not relevant to the debate, it announced the opening and working in this field. Therefore I would say yes, but of gambling clinics across the UK. Community services not in isolation. are being rolled out across the UK so that people in mental health crises do not end up in casualty. It is an Dr Cameron: I thank the Minister for making that incredibly impressive roll-out of mental health services point. I think that there should very much be a across the UK, including for eating disorders.1 formulation-driven treatment plan whereby all the issues that the person presents with are taken on board, and That long-term plan will give an additional 345,000 different aspects may require different parts of treatment. children access to mental health support; 380,000 adults I do not think that often happens currently, particularly access to psychological therapies; and 370,000 adults where people present to primary care services and perhaps access to better support for severe mental illness by do not get the specialist services that they need, but I 2023-24. It commits to the delivery of eating disorder hope the work that is being done will streamline that for waiting time standards, which I have already spoken the majority of people in the future. about, and I hope that we will reach those before the end of next year. The plan has also committed to the Ms Dorries: I am sure that Claire Murdoch and Tim design and roll-out of a new integrated model of adult Kendall at NHS England are all over that and very community mental health care. aware of that. A streamlining approach to treatment is To increase further the number of people seeking about getting people seen within the first week. If treatment for their eating disorder, the Government people are first seen within the first week when they recognise that raising awareness and reducing stigma present with their first crisis, that is the time when are incredibly important. Here I should come on to a greater intervention can happen and when that treatment few of the points made by the right hon. Member for plan can be designed and put in place and there can be Knowsley. I shall go through them backwards, because that entire care pathway through. I will not say that I that will be more positive in terms of affirmative answers. think that that would shorten the illness, because I do He mentioned social media providers, their role in body not know. The hon. Lady probably knows more than I image and the impact that they have on young women. do, but I would think that an effective treatment plan My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health with CBT and everything that is involved in that would and Social Care has already—this happened recently—held provide a better outcome than piecemeal interventions a roundtable with social media providers. It was an along the way. 1.[Official Report, 5 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 12MC.] 401WH Eating Disorders Awareness Week5 MARCH 2020 Eating Disorders Awareness Week 402WH

The right hon. Gentleman’s first point was careful For GPs, it is Pulse and other magazines that they consideration of Beat and so on. I am a huge admirer of receive. I think that there might be a quicker way into Beat. It provides an incredible service. Its helpline deals GPs’ surgeries to alert them to the fact that the NICE with 30,000 people a year,I think, if I am not mistaken—it guidelines are not being applied by GPs or by clinical is a few weeks since I saw Beat. The support service that commissioning groups. I think that there may be more it provides, particularly to young women who are looking inventive ways around that. Yes, training GPs absolutely for someone to talk to and advice and help, is second to is important; it is important to include this issue in the none. We are absolute supporters of Beat. GP training programme, but in terms of getting a Let me just go on to the point made by my hon. message through to GPs now, I think that we need to Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Sir Charles Walker) look at a more innovative way of doing that. about diabulimia. It is also of course the point that the On money being diverted and ring-fenced, I think that right hon. Member for Knowsley raised repeatedly. We the hon. Lady knows that the money from the £2.3 billion are absolutely committed to ensuring that people with that goes to the CCGs is ring-fenced for mental health diabulimia receive the treatment that they need. That is services only. They are not allowed to siphon it off and why NHS England announced in February 2019 the use it for anything else. We have our own queries as to piloting of services. The services are being piloted on whether some are doing that, and I know that NHS the south coast and in London, and NHS England will England, because I raised this with it the last time I met evaluate and monitor the pilots and take the learning it, is doing an evaluation of clinical commissioning from them. I will raise what the results show, if the groups and having a look and checking that that money, results are through yet from the pilots, and what learning which is ring-fenced, is spent only on— there has been and how it will apply across the UK.1 I am sure that the officials will take a note, and when Andrew Rosindell (in the Chair): Order. Could I ask I have had that meeting, I will report back to the right whether the Minister intends to give the proposer of the hon. Gentleman and let him know exactly what the motion his usual two minutes to wind up the debate? findings are and where we are going on that. The group that we are talking about is very small, but it is at the Ms Dorries: I think that the right hon. Gentleman, if extreme end and requires very serious consideration. he wants to talk to me at any time, knows that he can I think that those are all the points that were raised catch me anywhere. I will now give way to him. and that I need to answer. Andrew Rosindell (in the Chair): I thank the Minister Barbara Keeley: Could I remind the Minister of another and call Sir George Howarth. two? I think that a number of us raised the issue of training, and I asked whether she would be a champion of improving training. 4.28 pm Sir George Howarth: It is always a pleasure to talk to Ms Dorries: Sorry, yes, I will reply to that. the Minister. I start by thanking everybody who took part in the debate. The hon. Member for Broxbourne Barbara Keeley: There is also the question about (Sir Charles Walker) spoke movingly on behalf of his when waiting time targets will be introduced for adult constituents. As he knows, I have met them. They are a eating disorder services. formidable couple who are trying to turn their grief into something positive, and I applaud them for that. Ms Dorries: Absolutely. On training for GPs, I take The right hon. Member for Romsey and Southampton the hon. Lady’s point exactly. The NICE guidelines are North (Caroline Nokes) has been, along with me,ploughing incredibly clear, in terms of the Hope Virgo campaign this somewhat lonely furrow over many years. It is and taking BMI, weight and other things into consideration. always a pleasure to have her as a combatant in the The NICE guidelines are clear, and it is up to the battle that we have been conducting. As ever, we saw the clinical commissioning groups to ensure that GPs and compassion of the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim others do not take weight as a consideration. Tim Shannon), which is legendary—in this Chamber and Kendall is all over this and is working on it. We want elsewhere and certainly in his own constituency. The GPs and others to abide by what are already very strict hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and NICE guidelines. We have the guidelines; we just need Lesmahagow (Dr Cameron), who spoke for the SNP, the medical profession to implement them, but I had an made a very helpful contribution, as did my hon. Friend idea when the hon. Lady asked her question. We are the Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara talking about training for GPs with the General Medical Keeley), who spoke from the Labour Front Bench. I Council and we will continue to hold conversations will take the Minister up on her invitation. I am very about that, and I am sure that NHS England is doing grateful to everybody for contributing to the debate. exactly the same thing, but there are quicker ways to get information through to GPs. When I was a nurse and I was training, it was the 4.30 pm Nursing Times that informed us, on a weekly basis, of Motion lapsed, and sitting adjourned without Question what was new in treatments and operative procedures. put (Standing Order No. 10(14)).

1.[Official Report, 19 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 13MC.]

33WS Written Statements 5 MARCH 2020 Written Statements 34WS

Professor Sir Charles Godfray’s independent review of Written Statements our 25-year strategy to eradicate bovine TB (bTB) in England by 2038. Thursday 5 March 2020 BTB is one of the most difficult and intractable animal health challenges that England faces today.Around DEFENCE 30,000 cattle have to be slaughtered annually due to Defence and Security Industrial Strategy infection. Our cattle breeders suffer the loss of prize winning animals and valued herds and this loss creates considerable trauma in the farming industry. The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace): BTB is a very difficult disease to eradicate for a I want to inform the House of our work to review the number of reasons. It is a slow moving, insidious disease UK’s defence and security industrial sectors, which will which is difficult to detect. The diagnostic tests that inform the broader integrated review of security, defence, exist are not perfect; the disease can survive in the development and foreign policy. environment for several months. BTB is harboured in The UK has built up a world-leading defence and wildlife with badgers being a known vector. The BCG security industrial base over many decades with a broad vaccine provides only limited protection and does not footprint across the UK, helping our armed forces and cure infected badgers. There is no example of a country the broader national security community to deter or that has successfully eradicated bTB without also addressing defeat any threat that presents itself. At the same time, the presence of the disease in wildlife. these industries make a significant contribution to our prosperity through investment, exports, skills, and research However,the United Kingdom has previously managed and development. The defence and security industry to turn the tide on bTB and we can do it again. In the employs hundreds of thousands of people—including 1930s around 40% of cattle herds suffered from bTB. A thousands of apprentices—across the breadth of the combination of cattle movement controls, testing and Union, from building warships in Scotland and armoured slaughter of infected cattle and wildlife controls through vehicles in Wales, to manufacturing aircraft in England badger culling managed to bring the disease to near and satellites in Northern Ireland. Our industries are eradication by the early 1980s. also at the forefront of technology development in However, since the late 1980s, bTB has spread and creating new ways to prevent and defend against terrorism the 2001 foot and mouth disease outbreak led to a and serious organised crime. And on the international suspension in testing and then widespread restocking of stage, UK defence and security companies play a crucial farms. This meant that in the first five years of this role in maintaining the UK’sglobal influence,underpinning millennium, the disease once again spread rapidly and our strategic partnerships with key allies. became our number one animal health challenge. Many of the UK’s defence and security companies Our 25-year strategy to eradicate bTB published in are flourishing, but suppliers from large companies to 2014 is founded in science. It applies the lessons of our small and medium-sized enterprises are also now facing history in previous attempts to control the disease as a range of challenges for the future. They are impacted well as evidence from other countries around the world by the pace of technological change,the need for innovation and trial work conducted in the UK during the 1970s and partnership, and increased competition from abroad, and, more recently, during the randomised badger culling alongside the difficulty of sustaining necessary skills. trial conducted between 1998 and 2007. We need to consider how to address these challenges The cornerstone of our strategy, as before, is a policy and maximise potential opportunities. of regular testing and removal of infected cattle from The integrated review will define the long-term strategic herds. We have also incrementally introduced tougher aims for our national security and foreign policy and restrictions on cattle movements from herds at risk of determine the capabilities and reforms needed to meet infection and more sensitive tests. We have introduced those aims. The review of the UK’s defence and security measures to encourage greater risk management and industrial sectors will support this work by considering more information for the keepers of cattle. We have also how to ensure the UK continues to have competitive, deployed wildlife controls in areas where the disease is innovative and world-class defence and security industries rife and we have deployed new biosecurity measures to that drive investment and prosperity across the Union, try to break the cycle of infection between cattle and and that underpin our national security now and in the badgers. future. Since the initial badger cull pilot in 2013, a policy of The Ministry of Defence will lead a cross-Government badger control has been rolled out in many parts of the team to progress this work, engaging closely with industry, high risk area (HRA) in the south-west and west of Parliament, and other stakeholders over the course of England. As of 2019, 57% of the HRA is now subject to the review. The House will be kept informed as work a licensed cull of badgers. This policy, while difficult progresses. and inevitably contentious, is starting to yield results. [HCWS145] The latest epidemiological analysis conducted by Downs and others has shown that the incidence of the disease ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS in the first cull areas of Somerset and Gloucester has fallen substantially, by 37% and 66% respectively. Bovine TB However, the badger is an iconic, protected species and no one wants to be culling badgers forever. An The Secretary of State for Environment, Food and intensive badger cull was only ever envisaged as a phase Rural Affairs (George Eustice): I am updating the House of the strategy, not a perpetual state of affairs. Therefore, on today’s publication of the Government’s response to five years into the current strategy, it is appropriate to 35WS Written Statements 5 MARCH 2020 Written Statements 36WS take stock and consider how the policy might be evolved. There is no single answer to tackling the scourge of That is why the Government asked Sir Charles to conduct bTB but by deploying a range of policy interventions, a review of the bTB strategy which concluded in October we can turn the tide on this terrible disease and achieve 2018. our long-term objective of eradicating it by 2038. The UK benefits from world-leading science and the [HCWS148] Government believe we should deploy our expertise to accelerate the development of a deployable cattle vaccine against bTB. While the current BCG vaccine will never provide full protection, the Government will accelerate JUSTICE work to authorise a test that can differentiate between the disease and the vaccine, and will provide the funding necessary to initiate the research and trial work needed Victims Code of Practice towards the aim of having a deployable vaccine in the next five years. Vaccination is manifestly easier to deliver to herds of cattle than to wildlife and could significantly The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice reduce the spread of the disease both between cattle (Robert Buckland): Today,I am launching the Government and between cattle herds and wildlife. BTB is a global consultation on a draft revised code of practice for challenge and not every country can afford to test and victims of crime (the code) and the response to last remove cattle. The UK can harness its world-leading year’s consultation on proposed changes to the code. science in developing solutions such as vaccination that The consultation builds on that undertaken last summer would also be valuable to other countries trying to fight and is another major step towards meeting the commitment the disease. made in the cross-Government victims’ strategy to strengthen the victims’ code. It also fulfils our statutory The Government will also begin an exit strategy from obligations under the Domestic Violence, Crime and the intensive culling of badgers, while ensuring that Victims Act 2004 to publish and consult on a draft wildlife control remains a tool that can be deployed version before amending the code. where the epidemiological evidence supports it. As soon as possible, we intend to pilot Government-funded badger We are grateful to victims, stakeholders and the public vaccination in at least one area where the four-year cull at large who took time to respond to the initial consultation. cycle has concluded, with simultaneous surveillance of We have carefully considered their responses which disease. Our aim is to identify an exit strategy from wholeheartedly endorsed our proposed approach to culling in those areas that have completed the four years change. Their views have helped us to create the draft of intensive culling by deploying vaccination to the revised version of the code and have played a significant remaining badger population. part in helping us identify the key changes that we believe need to be made to ensure that victims’ rights While the Government must retain the ability to are set out in a clearer, more coherent and meaningful introduce new cull zones where the disease is rife, our way for victims. aim will be to allow future badger culls only where the It is vital that those who are caught up in the criminal epidemiological evidence points to a significant reservoir justice system understand their rights and the minimum of the disease in badgers. We envisage that any remaining levels of service and information they should receive areas would join the current cull programme in the next from criminal justice agencies. few years and that the badger cull phase of the strategy would then wind down by the mid to late 2020s, although We therefore propose to make a number of changes we would need to retain the ability to cull in a targeted to the code, but I want to be clear that the minimum way where the epidemiological evidence requires it. levels of service and information that victims are currently entitled to under the existing code will be maintained. In the edge area, where some vaccination projects Rather, the changes are designed to strengthen existing have been supported, our aim will be to ensure that rights and deliver an improved service for victims, helping badger culling is only authorised in areas where the them to cope better when they may be experiencing epidemiological evidence points to a problem in badgers. trauma in the aftermath of a crime. We will continue to support badger vaccination projects Building on the proposals made in the first consultation, in areas where the prevalence of disease is low. We will key proposals include: also investigate the potential for projects where adjacent vaccination and culling could complement each other Amending the code’s structure and reducing its complexity, bringing together the current five chapters into one concise in controlling disease. Changes to our guidance to code. Wehave merged the large number of existing entitlements Natural England on licensing badger control will be and set these out as 12 clear overarching rights; subject to consultation. While we have retained the existing eligibility categories for Finally, the Government will invest in the deployment access to enhanced support and information, we have made of better, more frequent and more diverse cattle testing clearer in the draft revised code that service providers have the discretion to offer enhanced rights to victims who fall so that we are able to detect the presence of the disease outside the scope of the existing categories; earlier and remove it from cattle herds faster. As a first step, the frequency of mandatory surveillance testing in For the first time, victims of unrestricted mentally disordered patients in the victim contact scheme will be allocated national two counties which form part of the HRA—Shropshire probation service victim liaison officers bringing greater and Staffordshire—will increase from annual to six-monthly parity in services for these victims, comparable to those from later this year. We expect this to be extended to all received by victims of restricted patients; parts of the HRA from 2021. Improving the efficacy of Again, for the first time, the draft revised code specifically our testing regime through better diagnostics is a key sets out the entitlements of victims of foreign national component of a successful strategy. offenders; and 37WS Written Statements 5 MARCH 2020 Written Statements 38WS

We have also included practical information about how with fresh operational guidance, to support staff in the victims can access services provided by the National Health judgments they need to make when presented with Service (NHS) and sign-posted them to where they can get evidence of an offender’s increased risk or an offender help and advice if they are approached by the media. breaching licence conditions. Alongside our work to refine the code, we are already As a vital part of our service to victims, the NPS looking into how to build victim awareness of the code offers victims the opportunity to receive a copy of the and their rights, including creating a short, user friendly SFO review,redacted only to fulfil our statutory obligations overview and an online summary for victims. We are to protect the rights to privacy of third parties. After also working with police and crime commissioners and McCann had been sentenced on 6 December, NPS local criminal justice partnerships to monitor and improve victim liaison officers contacted McCann’s victims and compliance with the code. asked them whether they would like to meet an assistant After we have published the revised code, we will turn chief of probation, in order to have the findings of the to consulting on the detail of a victims law that will SFO review explained to them and to hear the action guarantee victims their rights and look to further strengthen which has been taken to address the failings which the enforcement of the w. SFO review sets out. Meetings were then arranged, The consultation is available at: https://www.gov.uk/ having regard to the victims’ preferences and availability, government/consultations/consultation-on-improving- the first on 27 February and the final one on 5 March. the-victims-code Our primary responsibility is towards the victims, [HCWS150] which is why I have waited until they have received the full SFO review before announcing further measures. In order to address the serious concerns which have Joseph McCann: Probation and Recall arisen in this case and to provide wider public assurance, I have decided, exceptionally, to publish a version of the SFO review. This is not the full review, necessarily The Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice redacted, which has been shared with McCann’s victims, (Robert Buckland): On 6 December 2019 Joseph McCann but it is a thorough and open account of what went was given 33 life sentences at the central criminal court wrong in this case and what has been done to put it for a series of violent sexual attacks which he committed right. between 21 April and 6 May that same year. His victims, Further, so we can be absolutely sure that all the ranging from an 11-year-old boy to a 71-year-old woman, lessons of this terrible case have been learned and each suffered a terrifying ordeal, and I pay tribute to addressed, I have asked Her Majesty’s chief inspector of them for the courage they showed in giving evidence to probation, Justin Russell, to conduct an independent secure McCann’s conviction. Mr Justice Edis ordered review. Justin has decided that the review will be in two that McCann serve a minimum of 30 years before being parts: the first by pursuing specific lines of enquiry in eligible for release on parole. relation to the management of McCann in custody and When he started these attacks, McCann was being in the community and by considering whether HMPPS supervised on licence by the national probation service, has taken all the organisational action necessary to having been released automatically from prison on improve practice in the areas in which it was found 15 February, after he had served half of a three-year wanting, the second to take a wider look on the culture determinate sentence for burglary and robbery offences, and understanding of recall in the probation service. less time spent on remand. However,an initial management The chief inspector has placed the terms of reference review and then a full serious further offence (SFO) for his review here: https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov. review confirmed that the court imposed that sentence uk/hmiprobation/about-our-work/inquiriesandreviews. on 25 January 2018 on the understanding that it would When I receive the chief inspector’s reports, I will run concurrent to a recall to prison in connection with consider whether more needs to be done to strengthen an indeterminate sentence of imprisonment for public probation practice. I am determined to do all that is protection (IPP) which he had received in 2009 for necessary to protect the public from known offenders. aggravated burglary. However, staff in the national They, and McCann’s victims in particular, deserve no probation service (NPS) south-east and eastern division less. failed to recall McCann, both when he was remanded into custody on 21 August 2017 and when he received [HCWS151] the new sentence on 25 January 2018. Had he been recalled, he would not have been released automatically on 15 February last year; rather, the parole board would have conducted a full risk assessment in order to determine PRIME MINISTER whether it was safe re-release him on licence. There was only a limited amount which could be shared publicly,whilst we awaited the outcome of McCann’s Investigatory Powers Commissioner: Annual Report trial, but under ministerial direction officials re-launched the recall policy framework in early July, giving NPS divisional directors and chief executives of community The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson): I have today laid rehabilitation companies personal responsibility for ensuring before both Houses a copy of the annual report of the that their staff understood the purpose of recall and the Investigatory Powers Commissioner. The report was threshold for recall. Then, in January this year, alongside submitted by the new commissioner, Sir Brian Leveson, the recall policy framework, new mandatory training but covers the year 2018 and was drafted by Sir Brian’s on recall for all probation staff was launched together predecessor, Lord Justice Fulford. 39WS Written Statements 5 MARCH 2020 Written Statements 40WS

Overall, this report demonstrates that the security For the small number of passengers who are abroad, and intelligence agencies, law enforcement agencies and there is sufficient capacity on other commercial airlines other relevant public authorities show extremely high to return to the UK. Again, the Civil Aviation Authority levels of operational competence combined with respect is encouraging these airlines to offer rescue fares. The for the law. The report also sets out the breadth and CAA website will also provide information on how complexity of the powers covered by the 2016 Act and people may be able to claim back money they have other legislation, and offers constructive criticism on spent on tickets from travel insurance providers, travel the practical framework and individual instances of agents or their credit card providers. how these are used. Where the Investigatory Powers We are urgently working with industry to identify Commissioner’s Office (IPCO) have identified problems, opportunities to re-establish key routes, and have spoken Departments and agencies have worked vigorously to with airlines and airports today to emphasise this. We address these. are pleased to see that airlines have already committed Further to section 234 of the 2016 Act, the commissioner to operating a number of these routes in the near future. has also submitted to me a confidential annex to the I am conscious of the impact on all regions of the report, dealing with the work of the intelligence agencies. UK, particularly Northern Ireland, given the importance I concur with the commissioner that publication of this of air-based connectivity. The aviation Minister has annex would be prejudicial to national security and not spoken to counterparts in the devolved Administrations in the public interest. However, I can confirm that the to ensure they are kept informed of the latest developments annex does not raise substantive concerns or criticisms and are aware of the response plans put in place by my not covered in the main report. Department and the CAA. I would like to add that this report demonstrates the Levelling up connectivity across our regions and high quality of the oversight of our intelligence and nations is a top priority for this Government, which is security agencies’ use of the most intrusive powers. I am why we are undertaking a review of regional connectivity satisfied that our arrangements are amongst the strongest to ensure the UK has the domestic transport connections and most effective in the world. local communities rely on—including regional airports. I would like to place on record my thanks to the The Treasury is also reviewing air passenger duty (APD) current and previous commissioners and their staff for to ensure regional connectivity is supported while meeting their work, as well as echoing the commissioners’ thanks the UK’s climate change commitments to meet net zero to the agencies and departments and civil society by 2050. organisations which have helped with the establishment These measures featured in conversations with Flybe of IPCO over the past few years. back in January and, in turn, they agreed to continue I commend this report to the House. operating. [HCWS149] Since then, we explored multiple options with Flybe’s shareholders to find a solution, but the directors decided it was not viable to keep Flybe operating. Unfortunately, TRANSPORT in a competitive market companies do fail, but it is not the role of Government to prop them up. Globally, aviation is facing challenges due to the Flybe impact of coronavirus. The Government are well prepared for this. As the wider economic picture becomes clearer, The Secretary of State for Transport (Grant Shapps): the Chancellor has said that he stands ready to announce In the early hours of this morning, Flybe ceased trading. further support where needed. I have today written to We appreciate the impact this will have on Flybe Airport Co-ordination Limited, the independent UK passengers and employees. Our immediate priority is to slot co-ordinator, asking them to explicitly take into ensure passengers are kept informed of alternative travel account the implications of flying empty planes on the options and employees who have lost their jobs are UK’s environmental commitments in reaching decisions assisted in accessing support and advice. We know this on slot alleviation in relation to coronavirus. will be a worrying time for Flybe staff and our Jobcentre [HCWS152] Plus rapid response service stands ready to help anyone whose job may be at risk. WORK AND PENSIONS Affected passengers have been advised not to turn up to the airport. For those passengers who did arrive at State Pension Age: Universal Credit UK airports today, Her Majesty’s Government in-person support has been available to provide them with information. The majority of Flybe’s destinations are TheSecretaryof StateforWorkandPensions(DrThérèse served by different transport options, and we have asked Coffey): I can today announce that we will amend train and coach operators to accept Flybe tickets and regulations to smooth the transition from universal other airlines to offer reduced rescue fares to ensure credit to pensioner benefits and remove any potential passengers can make their journeys as smoothly as gap in support. possible. Following talks with Britain’s train operators, All those who reach state pension age while claiming all Flybe staff and customers will be offered a free, universal credit will receive a run-on, meaning that they alternative way home this week. To redeem the journey, can receive a payment for the entire assessment period present your employee ID or flight confirmation details. in which they reach state pension age. Entitlement to Government staff will continue to further assist at pensioner benefits and state pension is unaffected and airports. A number of airlines have stepped forward to continues as usual. This ensures there is no gap in provide rescue fares for passengers. benefit provision as people approach state pension age. 41WS Written Statements 5 MARCH 2020 Written Statements 42WS

This will benefit approximately 200,000 pensioners who This means that where a claimant receives a large will benefit by an average of £350 from this run-on at a payment of earnings within an assessment period which cost of around £70 million over the next five years. is sufficient to end their universal credit award, and then This process is already in operation on an extra reclaims universal credit within six months of that statutory basis, ensuring that nobody loses out upon award ending, earnings above the de minimis level will reaching state pension age, and legislation will be amended be taken into account as earnings for the new award. accordingly later this year. I will sign a determination to extend the current [HCWS146] £2,500 universal credit surplus earnings de minimis level from 1 April 2020 to 31 March 2021 and will place Surplus Earnings a copy in the Library. This will safeguard the efficient administration of universal credit by not reducing the de minimis to £300 as provided by the Universal Credit The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work Regulations 2013. and Pensions (Will Quince): The surplus earnings policy This measure will cost £70 million in 2020-21 and will was introduced to prevent people who are paid large mean around 500,000 fewer people will see their universal amounts of earnings on an irregular basis from receiving credit award reduced by surplus earnings. a greater amount of benefit and earnings than claimants who for example earn the same annual salary but are [HCWS147] paid over 12 regular salary payments.

ORAL ANSWERS

Thursday 5 March 2020

Col. No. Col. No. INTERNATIONAL TRADE ...... 961 INTERNATIONAL TRADE—continued Bilateral Trade Relations: Japan...... 968 Trade Agreements: Non-EU Countries...... 972 Foreign Direct Investment...... 964 Trade Strategy...... 974 Foreign Direct Investment: Film and Television..... 968 UK Ports of Entry ...... 970 Global Exports: Tech Start-ups...... 971 UK/EU Trade Agreement...... 963 Goods Exports...... 963 UK/US Free Trade Agreement...... 961 Renewable Energy: Exports ...... 967 UK/US Trade Agreement: SMEs...... 969 Topical Questions ...... 974 UK/US Trade Agreement: Thames Valley ...... 970 WRITTEN STATEMENTS

Thursday 5 March 2020

Col. No. Col. No. DEFENCE...... 33WS PRIME MINISTER ...... 38WS Defence and Security Industrial Strategy ...... 33WS Investigatory Powers Commissioner: Annual Report...... 38WS ENVIRONMENT, FOOD AND RURAL AFFAIRS. 33WS TRANSPORT ...... 39WS Bovine TB...... 33WS Flybe...... 39WS

JUSTICE...... 36WS WORK AND PENSIONS ...... 40WS Joseph McCann: Probation and Recall ...... 37WS State Pension Age: Universal Credit ...... 40WS Victims Code of Practice...... 36WS Surplus Earnings...... 41WS No proofs can be supplied. Corrections that Members suggest for the Bound Volume should be clearly marked on a copy of the daily Hansard - not telephoned - and must be received in the Editor’s Room, House of Commons,

not later than Thursday 12 March 2020

STRICT ADHERENCE TO THIS ARRANGEMENT GREATLY FACILITATES THE PROMPT PUBLICATION OF BOUND VOLUMES

Members may obtain excerpts of their speeches from the Official Report (within one month from the date of publication), by applying to the Editor of the Official Report, House of Commons. Volume 672 Thursday No. 35 5 March 2020

CONTENTS

Thursday 5 March 2020

Oral Answers to Questions [Col. 961] [see index inside back page] Secretary of State for International Trade

Business of the House [Col. 981] Statement—(Mr Rees-Mogg)

Flybe [Col. 996] Statement—(Kelly Tolhurst)

Immigration and Social Security Co-ordination (EU Withdrawal) [Col. 1008] Bill presented, and read the First time

International Women’s Day [Col. 1009] General Debate

WHO Framework Convention on Tobacco Control [Col. 1071] Debate on motion for Adjournment

Westminster Hall Post Office and Horizon Software [Col. 357WH] Eating Disorders Awareness Week [Col. 381WH] General Debates

Written Statements [Col. 33WS]

Written Answers to Questions [The written answers can now be found at http://www.parliament.uk/writtenanswers]