Dangerous Art

EXPERIMENTAL EMERGING ART

ISSUE 3, 2018 DANGEROUS ART

JURIJ KRPAN / ALEX ADRIAANSENS / ROY ASCOTT / DALILA HONORATO / ********** ********** / MARNIX DE NIJS / JULIAN BLAUE / CATHRINE KRAMER / ZACK DENFELD / ZORAN TODOROVIĆ / MARKO MARKOVIĆ / ALEXANDRA MURRAY-LESLIE EE ISSUE 3, 2018 ISSUE 3 INDEX

05 06 10 EE III: DANGEROUS ART TOP 10 - THE MOST CURATING DANGERS Stahl Stenslie DANGEROUS ARTWORKS Jurij Krpan

18 24 28 DANGEROUSLY UNSTABLE CONSCIOUSNESS IN Alex Adriaansens DANGER Roy Ascott

34 40 42 STRUCTURAL VIOLENCE TABOO - TRANSGRESSION ART OF FEAR AS ART - TRANSCENDENCE Marnix de Nijs EE - EXPERIMENTAL EMERGING ART Julian Blaue Dalila Honorato Independent Art Magazine ISSUE 3, 2018: DANGEROUS ART

This issue is published by TEKS Publishing

EE ISSUE 3 is supported and financed by TEKS - TRONDHEIM ELECTRONIC ART CENTRE WWW.TEKS.NO 60 64 66 FASHIONABLY DANGEROUS EE TATTOO WARNING - UPCOMING Alexandra Murray-Leslie EDITORIAL EE ISSUE 3, 2018 EDITORS LETTER EE III : DANGEROUS ART

The EE #3 issue researches dangerous but works so poorly done that it offends works of art and artistic ideas, presenting both qualified as well as uninterested some of the most dangerous contemporary audiences? Such as Fellesskapsprosjektet’s artists, thinkers and actors in art. recent monument in Kvam, Norway? Where a single work of art, a trash-like sculpture Dangerous? What is really dangerous art? made from locally found material, divided Physically threatening performances such the Kvam community into antagonistic a SRL - Survival Research Laboratories- fractions, threatening to tear the social putting the audience’s safety at stake while bonds apart. What about mechanically EXPERIMENTAL killer-robots re-enact a retro-futuristic dangerous art such as Tinguely’s auto- gladiators fight? Leif Elggren’s visually destructive ‘Homage to New York’? Or contagious images of lethal viruses? That Serra’s super heavy metal walls threatening EMERGING ART you are only allowed to see when moving to fall over you at any moment? Political about in the gallery with a flashlight. What satire and actionism such as done by Pussy EE -Experimental and Emerging Art- textual, but online you will find additional about bad art such as populist, crowd Riot? Or is the real danger in the hands of documents important contributions to all background material such as texts, original pleasing spectacles like Koon’s kitsch? The hard-core curators of transgressive art such what art can be. The works and tendencies sound files, video, photos and other meaningless art by the happy amateur? as Jurij Krpan? If art is evil -as in better than we present are major additions to the Zeitgeist documents to our coverage. Or the mental trash represented by the the good- is it then not also dangerous? Or field of emerging aesthetics. EE focuses shallow voids of banal IKEA style paintings? only yet again a victim of moral banality. on experimental art projects – the stuff EE is In Medias Res Threatening to empty Art of all its existential Is the trans-species art of Maja Smrekar that somehow stretches and challenges and we believe The interesting, meaning? Or shock art such as the dangerous? Or just another typical hetero- established notions of what art is. We our magazine to the subversive, Chapman brother’s ultraviolent sculptures normal approach in an age of hyped bio- believe the field of art is -and should be- in be a necessary and sceneries? American abstractionism technologies. When Zhu Yu appears to cook a constant flux, challenging the otherwise publication both the abject, the as it was politically applied, employed and and eat a human baby, is that dangerous market and cash driven understanding of to be informed sponsored by CIA? Speculative and lethal art or just another piece from the ‘cadaver art. If innovation always comes from the about and striking but causing the killing of animals such as Damien school’? periphery, then EE will also move at the rim document a field Hirst’s Mother and Child Divided? Or Wim of aesthetics. We also defend our right to in constant and also intriguing, Delvoye’s tattooed pigs? That he later kills Then what about Milo Yiannopoulos sometimes fall into its core. And at other rapid change. EE to sell their skins as pictures. How to deal (dangerous.com) who bathed in pigs blood times out of it. endorses these wondrous and with taboo breaking art such as Oleg Kulik’s while also splashing it on images of victims fluctuations in life and mating with a dog? When is the of Islamist terror. Was it ultrapopulist, pro- WELCOME TO THE BIGGER PICTURE thinking & doing the beautiful dangerous also getting illegal? Criminal art Trump poor art (#DaddyWillSaveUs) or OF WHAT ART CAN BE. and see them as essential components of such as Alexander Brener’s infamous graffiti simply clever exploitation of the art world’s ONE MAGAZINE AT A TIME. the experimental and expanding field of art. add-on to Malevich’s paintings? Or John desperate -and dangerous- need for One of EE’s main purposes is to support the Duncan’s ‘Blind Date’ where he purchases transgressive acts? EE’s format is multiple; interesting, the subversive, the abject, the a female corpse in Mexico and performs All what part magazine, newszine, striking but also intriguing, wondrous and intercourse with it to punish himself for not What about James Bridle’s Drone Shadows, part website and it spans the beautiful in the ongoing human project feeling love. According to Adorno ‘every drawing the 1:1 shadows of real drones art can be across several media of making art. Whatever art might be or work of art is an uncommitted crime’. Then on the ground, as a reminder of their two formats. While the printed issue is for sale, become. what about aesthetic thinking gone wild? primary functions: to spy or to kill. Seems EE is also freely downloadable online at Such as Hitler’s (in)famous speeches on we cannot be saved by technology either. eejournal.no as a PDF based magazine. Oslo, April 2018 grand arts and culture? Or Stockhausen’s Often EE articles are more visual than naming of 911 as art? Or Schlingensief’s If art is about challenging and shaking homage to the 911 terrorist Atta as an artist? our established notions of the world, are What about the (apparently) suicidal art of not all artists then dangerous? Are you a Schwarzkogler, the hero of the Viennese dangerous artist? In the end it might be Stahl Stenslie Zane Cerpina Actionism. Gay sodomized, S&M art such your perceived sense of threat that decides Editor-in-chief Editor, as Robert Mapplethorpe’s sexualized self- what is dangerous or not. But one danger Designer, portraits? Self-molesting performances constantly hovers over us: in this age of Photographer such as Chris Burden shooting himself in the Selfie, the missing image is the most the name of art? Bluntly offensive art of the dangerous. Punk movement? What about poorly done works of art? Not necessarily Arte Povera, Welcome to our bla end issue. Stahl Stenslie, 2017 Zane Cerpina, 2018

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TOP 10 CORPORALLY DANGEROUS ART WORKS rated firstly by how dangerous it is for the audience and secondly for the artist

1. Delusions of Self-immolation (1993) by Erik Hobijn. A ‘suicide machine’ literally engulfing the participant in a lethal shower of flames.

2. Inheritance (2016) by Erich Berger and Mari Keto who made an exclusive necklace from radioactive material and gold. The piece is conceived as a ‘family jewellery’ as it must be stored for many generations before it is safe to wear TOP 10 3. Event for penetration/extrapolation (1976) by Stelarc where he jumps through THE MOST an huge sheet of glass, barely avoiding to cut himself to pieces. 4. Shoot (1967) by Chris Burden when he lets himself be shot in arm.

DANGEROUS 5. Shooting (2002) by Boris Sincek. To re-experience his traumas as a soldier during the Balkan wars he dressed in a bulletproof vest and was shot with a 9mm ARTWORKS pistol by the curator Jurij Krpan. 6. Que le cheval vive en moi (May the horse live in me) (2011) by Marion Laval- Jeantet & Benoît Mangin; where Marion was injecting horse blood plasma aiming to blur the boundaries between species.

7. El-en-i’ (1998) by Ive Tabar. A medical love poem and performance where he touches his own heart by inserting a catheter into one of his major veins, pushing it to his heart until it starts to fibrilate, testing the tiny line between life and death.

8. Planting Grass (2000) and Earth (2004) by Yang Zhichao when he implanted respectively grass and earth into his own body, pinpointing his idea that the body is more comfortable with technology than nature.

9. Selfeater (2009) by Marko Marković where he eats a larger piece of his own skin including flesh.

10. I Miss You (1999 - 2005) by Franco B where he walks slowly up and down a catwalk while blood slowly drips from calendulas in his arms. A performative suicide ending with his own fainting or fatigue.

7 1. 2. 3. 4.

5. 6. 7. 8.

9. 10.

8 9 JURIJ KRPAN Jurij Krpan K-9_topology by MajaEE ISSUE Smrekar 3, 2018 at PRIX ARS Exhibition, Linz, 2017. CURATING DANGERS JURIJ KRPAN

Jurij Krpan (SI) is the director at Kapelica Zane Cerpina (ZC): Kapelica Gallery (in Gallery in Ljubljana, Slovenia since Ljubljana, Slovenia) is considered as one of 1995. In 2010, 2013 and 2017 he was a the most dangerous art galleries in Europe, member of the Hybrid Arts jury for the in terms of works and artists. What is your Ars Electronica Prix (Linz, Austria). He manifesto as a curator? has been a contributor to the EU Creative Europe projects Trust Me, I’m an Artist Jurij Krpan (JK): First, you should know that (2014-2017), and the European Digital Art I am not trained as a curator. My background and Science Network (2014-2017), as well is in architecture, and my studies started in as working with the European Commission the 1980ies. And in Slovenia and Hungary – Horizon 2020 project Doing It Together in the 80ies, it was interesting situation Science (DITOs). because the artists were the first to start to raise difficult questions about the society The following is a transcript of the conversation as such. We were living in socialism, it was between Jurij Krpan and Zane Cerpina during still Yugoslavia and we had a one-party Ars Electronica, Linz, Austria, 2017. totalitarian system. Since we were born in this system we were not able to reflect on it. We were like fish in a tank; they don’t see water, they’re just swimming. This is how we were living at the time. Then through the artworks that I was experiencing in the 80s, I began to reflect upon larger society, the systemics that were organizing my life. At the beginning, I was really upset about art, but since I’m a really curious man I started to delve into the Understanding topic and I got We are living in a a completely new vision upon contemporary society and my life. So, I can art means say that art very dangerous changed my life understanding profoundly. And the life we are I believe that art can do that. living world so dangerous

We are now living in another ideological frame which is even more powerful, more profound, but maybe less visible. Capitalism art is necessary with all its consequences form a biopolitics where we are just sustaining our bare life as a game of gambling. This is also Jurij Krpan

Jurij Krpan at Ars Electronica 2017, Linz.

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oppressive. So, we need to raise difficult so dangerous art is necessary. I’m using have tried to change us or even disable us, but that the message Our biggest questions, we need to raise questions to the deliberately your term, ‘dangerous’. For either through financial discipline, or by conveyed through the centre of power and to what the holders those who rule, art should be dangerous, art attacking our support activities. Because artwork is larger than bloodletting of power are trying to hide. I profoundly should be disruptive. And as a curator and our artists like to collaborate with scientists, life. This relates to my believe in the empowerment of civil as somebody who is responsible in the art with engineers and so on, they want to beginning as a curator. I performance society, and the projection of civil society scene, I’m not that kind of curator that just learn tech skills that they are not learning believe that art is larger that started in the 80ies. Now with all the opens and closes the door. As the head of at school. Therefore, we do workshops or than life since my own was with NGOs (nongovernmental organizations) an institution I know that we need to show different activities, which are technical. life was changed by it. we are seeing how powerful we are as artworks next year, and next year and the They are not about art, but This is my equatorial Franco B self-organized citizens. Because the state year after. Therefore, I am deeply concerned Various about tools, materials and metaphysics. I was always interested in cannot answer our questions, we need to about what the artistic production does, so on. This year we were not artworks that were so big, so powerful that answer them ourselves. And artists are the how the artists are living, if they have access people allowed to fund workshops they immediately opened those (existential) most sensitive part of our society. They to the technology, to the spaces and so on. where the focus is on questions. I used to say that you don’t go can sense everything much faster, much Besides my curatorial practice, I run a lot of have tried technical teaching. That in our gallery to relax, for recreation or to better than anybody else. I keep saying activities which are trying to defend artists is completely stupid. The contemplate; you go to work. You need to that understanding contemporary art against political decisions and so on. to change Slovenian Ministry of Culture think, to remake, to rethink everything you means understanding the life we are living. us or even try to harm us this way and knew until then. This has been demanding for Of course, we are constantly opposed to ZC: How much does the considerations of they try to hide their agency the absorption capability of our audience. the classical understanding of art, which funding and legal implications twist the disable us this way. is object-oriented, pleasure proposing, curatorial process? Do these circumstances recreational practice. The art market is make artworks less dangerous? ZC: How has the Kapelica’s artistic direction the most powerful representation of the changed throughout the years? Many of the bourgeoisie production of art. It is super JK: No. Because you need to know how the works showed at Kapelica has a focus on aggressive. And since mechanism of funding art functions. We bio art. Is that were the danger is - in bioart For those who its language is money, it (Kapelica Gallery) are 100% publicly funded, and biopolitics? completely goes along and you can be publicly funded if the work rule, art should with the set of values you are doing is in public interest. We know JK: The basic curatorial interest was always that liberal capitalism our work is in public interest, so when we the same. How is the life of a person be dangerous, is now promoting. defend our production we go literal on affected by the mainstream society? Maybe Right now, we are that. The art project might be difficult, but it seems that in the beginning we had a lot art should be living in a very special it’s necessary, and it is up to you how you of so-called body art, body related projects, moment where big defend this necessity. Of course, there is but they were all related to life as an object, disruptive Internet platforms are also a subjective factor where those who how you protect, how you defend, how you taking over the initiative. Also over the rest are deciding on funding might not like -through the explicitness of those artworks- of the social activities that National states you. Fortunately, there are different public brought the materiality of the body in front. previously had, from the social networking, sources through which we are funded; it’s If we’re talking about bare life, we often information sector - the newspapers, the Slovenian state, the city of Ljubljana inaugurate the body with blood, liquids the television and so on. Everything is and European projects. And once the work as a material for expression. That can be moving on to the Internet, especially the is produced and it is successful, alive, then necessary because ultimately everybody is commercial sector. We are not anymore as everybody is satisfied. They don’t need experiencing the outside world on his body much in service to the National state as to to understand it, but since the work got and mind. Maybe our biggest bloodletting the capital. They track us all the time, and all public recognition or the recognition from performance was with Franco B, but already the consumer patterns that we are creating the professionals or abroad, this is the best in 1996 we brought Stelarc here. Then there with our behaviour serve to concentrate thing that can happen to the artist. When were not many artists like Stelarc, Marcel- money even more. We have this 1% rich this goes through, we can build further upon lí Antúnez Roca, Stahl Stenslie; artists who against 99% poor situation. The whole set our values. In our 23 are applying technology on to their bodies, of values and the whole machinery, it is years of existence we The art who are very much into life that can be driving us, and our activities and what we have won so many changed, modified, enhanced, stretched, earn for the 1% richest. awards and reached project might connected and so on. And it was at that so many milestones time that we found those artists active. And I think that as the strategies of that nobody can be difficult, And through that we somehow managed to oppression are changing, the strategies question the content build our audience. Our audience started to of artistic activities are changing as well. we are doing. At but it’s understand that being radical, is not about We are living in a very dangerous world times, various people shocking themselves, shocking others, necessary Performance Que le cheval vive en moi (May the horse live in me) by Marion Laval-Jeantet & Benoît Mangin, Kapelica Gallery, Ljubljana, 2011.

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Jurij Krpan at Kapelica Gallery, Ljubljana. point of singularity: when technology and JK: The most straight biology completely merge into one. This ZC: How much does the curator become forward dangerous There was a future is inevitable, and we are completely an artist in his process? How much of your piece was Shooting, unprepared for it. curatorial vision of art influences and shapes the shooting piece big danger of the final outcome? with Boris Sincek (in ZC: What about the topics of this year’s Ars 2002) (Bryzgel 2017) anaphylactic Electronica (2017): machine learning and JK: It is a dangerous question. It is not that which had a very shock AI? the curator is an artist. I believe strongly strong symbolic and that a curator has to have his own agenda, emotional coverage. I just felt that we had Machine learning is still on a relatively low and this is how you differentiate one place to do it (shoot at the artist with a 9mm level, but once the machines will start to (gallery) from another. It is like the editor’s pistol). We had to allow Sincek to re-enact learn by themselves, who knows what house; you do not publish everything, you his wartime experiences and enable the they’re going to learn. It is kind of a Black publish a certain literature, and this is what performance (of being shot at) to happen. Mirror scenario. Therefore, I think that we do as well. Even if there is a most radical and dangerous these topics are idea, it would not be executable if there is not very interesting You don’t go By your selections you enough expertise. We grew our expertise (in for artists. They A curator influence your surroundings, shooting) and the performance was made are dangerous in our gallery society or environment. possible. topics. They are has to have And of course, our work has life threatening to relax, for influenced some Slovenian Also, the project Que le cheval vive en moi topics. So, we his own artists as well. They get (May the horse live in me) with Marion need exquisite recreation or to the possibility to see and Laval-Jeantet & Benoît Mangin injecting the art to decode agenda meet the most interesting horse serum into her own blood. There was them and to contemplate; artists from around the world. This is the a big danger of anaphylactic shock. The prepare us for a you go to work. best school they can have; the input for body could have fallen into an inflammatory public debate. their own artistic work. We also produce state. But because we did everything as it some works by foreign artists. Because should be done, and we also provided the ZC: Are there hybrid artists that you would we needed to connect on different levels, necessary backup, it went through. like to point out? between different professionals. It is the same with Maja Smrekar’s K-9_ JK: There are a lot of hybrid artists. But Once you have this ecosystem, you can topology and Ive Tabar who performed hybrid is by default without a genre. It much better enable the artist who is surgery on his own body. Because we were can be hybrid of any kind. There is a lot of commissioned at your own gallery. I have a constantly involved in the productions investigation going on, and this is where lot of experience working with artists. I know we took every possible medical measure the art production becomes interesting. the backstage of their artworks, and it is a to protect the artists, the artworks and Because through that investigation you can very precious knowledge that I share with ourselves. This was possible only because Throughout the years, we therefore lost a participate. Hybrid artworks usually have other artists. I can encourage them about we believed so strongly in the artists. lot of audience. They simply got tired. They an open structure. There is not a nice art how far they can go as artists. And as for my couldn’t go along because it was not only object produced curatorial discipline - if I ZC: I find it very interesting how you play about body, it was also about technology, in the end, it is When am selecting an artwork and balance on the edge of legality and then it was how you build all these things If I am often more an I will defend it by all safety, often working in the grey zone. with microbiology, and they (the audience) installation or a technology means. I am defending just can’t do that. These are just different selecting set-up through my choices, but also the JK: Well, dwelling facets of the same which you are and biology artwork as such. Like in safety is not This is why we I believe that thing, that we need to an artwork I invited on to the the lawyers say: “I am interesting. It is boring protect our life, and journey. It can be will completely will defend objectively responsible and everybody need powerful art is larger we can protect it only performative, or for what is happening.” can do that. But by understanding the not performative; merge it by all Artists appreciate that. our aim is not to artworks; to than life since mechanisms through interactive, or not. But you need to be there They feel safer to take a provoke people. Our art. And right now, my own life and you need to go through it. Hybrid art means step further. aim is to begin the wake us up biotechnology is is a field with a completely open structure, debate, begin a different kind of thinking, both accessible was changed which is traumatic, but it’s open. I do not ZC: What is the most dangerous thing you different kinds of seeing and understanding and so powerful. It want to mention specific artists, but I find have done as a curator? the life we’re living in. In the beginning art is announcing the by it the hybrid field really interesting. was here to bring more spirituality, a more

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Even if we contemplative future would allow somebody to kill himself in a ZC: How about the big narrative or survival? they should live really well because they reality. Now, we are gallery?” And my immediate response was: represent one of the most important parts went into living in a completely “Of course not”, because life is the highest JK: We shouldn’t lose ourselves into big of our society. This is why Kapelica Gallery fake reality. And value we have. But then I had to rethink if narratives. We just need to understand the wants to create an artistic ecosystem, not space we we need artworks I’m defending “larger than life” works? And ingredients and try to combine them to just a few art spaces, but connect with to wake us up and what does it really mean, what is larger foresee the threats and the opportunities others, invite, work with kids so that they are still just out of this dream. than life? Then I have that are in front of us. As we heard at the are not spoiled by a system of values that This is why we need to reformulate my Quantum ARS Electronica symposium 2017: if we are measurable and goal-oriented. coping with powerful artworks; answer into having an are building the code of AI, it is us who are to wake us up. I am open end. Now I would biology is responsible for everything. Unfortunately, ZC: Ljubljana is a very interesting location, our earthly very often asked, allow it if the artwork the gadgets are turning into black boxes, with several unique thinkers such as Dragan because I am not will have the artistic opening you can’t do anything about that. But this Zivadinov and Slavoj Zizek. problems easily understood coverage, rhythm. up a very is where we come in. The art field can open as a curator, “How far would you go?” What this rhythm is I it, demystify it, show it, ask for different JK: We still have this The computer First, it is not about how far, because we don’t know, but it’s an interesting things, and so on. experience from always know what is enough, we are not open end, because this the 80ies that I was was invented guessing. And then once I was asked if “I is constantly shifting. field ZC: AI is trendy and many artists are talking about at the This is how I believe focusing on it, also because of the funding beginning, when to simulate how we should act. in it. we understood that art has this mighty the impact of ZC: What is currently happening at the They have to JK: The focus on AI power to change, to Kapelica Gallery? is very abstract, but change individuals, atomic bombs. believe us, if there are some to even change JK: As I said, the singularity is still a myth, ingredients that are society. And we That research but we have all the ingredients already. This and this is pointing towards believe that our is what I’m interested in; the artists who possible futures, then actions can change is coming to are playing with these ingredients. It is not really difficult that is interesting for it. Unfortunately, about science-fiction anymore. Some of the us. We are into quantum computing now, the generations that its end. wealthy guys are playing with money and pointing to a whole developing field in were born afterwards, they don’t have this doing things that are profoundly changing biology which is on the verge of metaphysics. experience of a totalitarian system, so they our society and also our understanding of Already medical experts, scientists are have to believe us, and this is really difficult. what is fiction, or not fiction. Obviously, they understanding that you cannot just cut Take for example, Maja Smrekar who has live their childhood obsessions. However, off, eat and put chemistry into the body to really sacrificed everything for her art. She they are so powerful that they influence solve everything. There is something more is one of the rare artists who believes that the generations to come. I recall how David which is super-connected, and is not only changing people, society, the environment Cameron told that he was raised in an in one body, but between bodies and so on. is possible. This is why she invested her own environment where everybody was talking The area of quantum biology is opening up body into the artwork, why she is defending about flying to the moon, satellites and so a very interesting field, a very interesting her radical project in front of everybody. on. But even if we went into space we are still field where I believe computation will get just coping with our earthly problems. This a proper task. The computer was invented We try to convey this message and this is why he financed his submarine and went to simulate the impact of atomic bombs. urgency to other generations so that also to the bottom of the deepest ocean. Well, That research is coming to its end. Now the they see how art can change society. only a few years later, we are all about flying quantum computing needs a proper task, to Mars, living on the moon, building huge and I believe that there are dimensions in rockets and really doing it, it’s happening. front of us that are super, super interesting. We are literally The artworks that will address all these flying around We shouldn’t issues will be interesting, important, with flying taxis; dangerous, scary, whatever name it’s called. they’re still only lose ourselves And I think that we as a platform, we need References: built as proof of into big to encourage and support artists to work Amy Bryzgel. 2017. Performance art in Eastern concept, but it’s with that. It is very difficult to sell our Europe since 1960. Oxford University Press. just a matter of narratives artworks, basically impossible. And we need time. to create a possibility for the artists doing Kapelica Gallery http://www.kapelica.org/ these projects to survive. Not only survive, Kersnikova http://kersnikova.org/ Jurij Krpan at Ars Electronica 2017, Linz.

16 17 Alex Adriaansens Alex Adriaansens Photo: Alex Adriaansens in his officeEE atISSUE V2_, 3, 2017.2018

DANGEROUSLY UNSTABLE ALEX ADRIAANSENS

Alex Adriaansens (NL) is one of the power and language founders of V2_ (1981) and the general of economics, but we Dangerous and artistic director. He is also the director represented only a of the bi-annual Dutch Electronic Arts small part of what we art is art that Festival – DEAF. He is a guest curator for call ‘the arts’. So, in different art and technology festivals and that sense, the V2_ art disturbs, that events (a.o. Meta.Morf, Norway; Moca in practice is dangerous Taiwan; China Media Art Tri- annual; eArts for the arts itself, since transforms the festival in China; Dutch Cultural Center we were questioning Shanghai for the World Expo 2010). He has our own practice environment given many talks and presentations around and art in general. in which it is the world (universities, symposia, festivals, By questioning the workshops, expert meetings etc.). arts and our own practiced practice, we were The following is a compressed transcript from redefining what art could be and mean for the conversation between Alex Adriaansens and ourselves and society at large. Here, we Zane Cerpina on December 8, 2017, Rotterdam. were expanding the domain of the arts by relating it to social, economic events, and to Zane Cerpina (ZC): What is dangerous art technology as a major designing factor of to you? What and how should dangerous everything in the world. Here, the art started art be? to question society and the role of the arts in it. Here, we also became dangerous for Alex Adriaansens (AA): Dangerous art the world outside of the arts. is art that disturbs, that transforms the environment in which it is practiced. That At V2_ the arts question and thus disturb the means it should have an impact on the concepts on which your life and worldview outside world, the world outside the arts. are built. It becomes dangerous because it The V2_ art If art is dangerous, it’s dangerous for questions you and your environment and all something or to someone, and sure art can the belief systems on which your/our world also be dangerous for itself. I always had a are based. It’s a bit of a romantic view on love-hate relation with the arts, since most the arts, but since economical concepts have saturated all activities in society and all practice is of what we call art is a very introvert and conservative domain, while another part our thinking, the arts is the only domain left of the art practice is taking an avant garde where risks are taken, where critique can be position and likes to performed in an interdisciplinary way. If art is formulate critique on dangerous for itself and society. The ZC: Talking about dangers of the past, what dangerous, it’s founders of V2_ were works would you like to bring out from the dangerous for practicing artists. We V2_ archive? did art schools; we the arts itself looked at the arts as AA: There have been many projects that something or being a free space, had a dangerous aspect. First, what we tried to do is question the arts in the context Alex Adriaansens to someone not yet bound to the

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The Body in Ruin exhibition at V2_, 1993. build a critique Technology as would stand between the two long arms. future scenarios related to technology. based on ‘doing One arm was a flamethrower spitting a ten- They can be dangerous in a social sense, and making’, as the Golem that meter-long flame, while the other arm was a political sense, or within any other context. well as ‘theory kind of shower that would put out the flames Most works at V2_ probably fit within this and writing’. will ultimately by taking all oxygen out of the air a split category, even though we also presented At V2_, we want second after. The person that was selected quite a few dangerous works due to their to be dangerous destroy humans to go on the suicide machine had to be physical impact. within the arts itself. The most dangerous prepared before stepping onto the machine. projects we present have a strong social, It took about 30 to 40 minutes before the In the sense of raising political, or conceptual context, like thinking person was prepared by the artists, who public attention, Danger is an about the body in relation to technology. would put a (fire protective) paste on your danger is very The Body was seen as a holy temple within body very slowly. When done, you would much a promotional exploitative Christianity, something you should not be guided to the machine and strapped issue. You can use invade and transform with technology. The onto it. A limited audience was allowed to it to make people concept for body was seen as a temporary vehicle to get watch this process or, better said, this ritual. excited, to make to the next stage etc. Questions on Life and You could hear a needle fall on the floor; them curious, to raising attention Death were closely connected to this. Think everybody was extremely concentrated seduce them to do something. Danger is an about the incredible impact of technology and already imagining exploitative concept for raising attention. on all aspects of our lives and all fantasies It was a what would happen And sure, most people feel attracted by and dangers related to this: technology with this person once danger; it spices up their daily routines. It as the Golem that will ultimately destroy near-death the machine spit out its makes them more alert, more present. humans. To illustrate this, in 1993, we set up giant flames. You were a 4-week event called The Body in Ruin. We experience thinking about what showed an exhibition with works from Paul might happen when you would step onto Sermon (Telematic Dreaming), Keith Piper this machine?! Nobody got seriously injured (A Nigger in Cyberspace), Orlan (My Flesh, on this machine; only small blizzards the text and the languages), and Erik Hobijn occurred once a while, but people who had (Delusions of Self-Immolation), an exhibition been on this machine got a different mind- that would never have been possible if we set as it was a near-death experience which had asked the city for permission, since they was the goal of the project. would have thought of it as being too radical and provocative. If you think of a dangerous (art) machine, We took care Participants then this was a dangerous work, mentally of security and and physically. safety as much had to sign a as we could, ZC: It is interesting of our media- and technology saturated but we took contract before If the physical to search through societies. Who produces art; where can you a certain risk. aspect of the V2_ archives experience this art; how does art relate or So, there was a stepping into it through you. Any connect itself to social, political or economic certain danger to it, but we could oversee danger seduces other works to issues, concepts, or topics? This has a long the risks well. The most dangerous machine mention? history in the activities of V2_ (since 1981) -physically speaking- in the exhibition was you, then it and shows the potential and power of art to the often-named suicide machine, called AA: If the physical engage society. Delusions of Self-Immolation by Erik Hobijn. is hard to get aspect of danger (1) It was so risky for the participants that seduces you, then The arts is At the same time, we they had to sign a contract before stepping out of that it is hard to get out have positioned ourselves into it. The danger was not so much being of that perspective. the only within the arts because inside the suicide machine itself, since this perspective Many of the works art is a domain where was a controlled machine with precise we have developed or showed at V2_ domain left you have several specific safety measurements. The danger was the have been questioning the invasiveness of privileges and a sense of mental process you would undergo when technology, social issues, control issues, where risks the liberty that you can people prepared you to step onto the and hacking. These are all dangerous allow yourself to do certain suicide machine: a gigantic device with two topics, in principle, or relating to dangerous are taken kinds of research and long arms, each 6 meters long, where you Delusions of Self-Immolation by Erik Hobijn, 1993.

20 21 Alex Adriaansens EE ISSUE 3, 2018

Alex Adriaansens during Meta.Morf 2016 It’s Nice to be in Orbit exhibition opening. ZC: At V2_, the exploration of more analogue I have this feeling a word that is related to positive news or and physical dangers seems to be replaced something is going One thing that positive events. We are used to avoiding with algorithm-based, digital, virtual, and to change very the word accident in that context, which is, artificial intelligence related topics. Are all drastically in the triggers me of course, a wise decision. Nevertheless, in dangers now hidden in the black boxes of coming 10 years. And our world, accidents are an everyday part technology? I don’t know what it is the word of reality. is, but one thing that ‘singularity’ We cannot really AA: The dangers triggers me is the Any The things we produce are hidden in word ‘singularity’. It expresses so nicely our tend to malfunction oversee what is the black box, limited understanding of how technology technology as much as they are but the impact might be able to determine its own future. capable of functioning happening in our is outside it. We This concept has a place in the minds of we develop properly. We try to cannot really many people, of many writers, artists, predict and control black box society oversee what is developers, and philosophers. It relates to always comes things; yet, we are happening in our black box society, and we the insecurity that people experience every often surprised by can be surprised and/or speculate by what day, such as economic, social, and political up with its their creativity to comes out of the black box. insecurity. It is an interesting topic that malfunction in many relates to how we imagine our technological own accident ways. Accidents only based future, a topic well-known in the arts. happen from the perspective of an illusion You can easily connect The Body in Ruins of safety and control. Misfortune and failure Another question addressed is the concept to the same kind of question: Could there are not signs of improper production; they expressed earlier that says any technology be intelligent machines? Could there be are inherent to any production. we develop always comes up with its own consciousness in those machines? In that accident. In the case case, we would have to understand what One can state there is a productive of AI, it might be the We should look consciousness is; otherwise, we could not potential in rupture, friction, instability, question what kind design it, or can it emerge by itself out of and unpredictability. If we can frame and of accident it could at instability specific conditions that we do not know understand this productive potential, we be that will surprise yet? Who are we? Where are we going? could embrace malfunction and the accident us soon. Or can we as an inherent Where are we coming as being inherent to understanding. be so creative to from? And how People feel integrate possible quality of all do we understand In Meta.Morf, we take the idea of the accidents in the ourselves? These a negative accident into the process of evolution that design process of AI? living systems questions come up has brought forward a complex species like repeatedly, although connotation humankind. In 1994, there was a series of Having this interest in the creative potential they are differently interviews and debates on Dutch television of technology to generate accidents is also packaged each time, to the word titled A Beautiful Accident in which the expressed in the name of V2_, Institute for and the answers to central question was if the rise of humankind Unstable Media. The title came up when these questions can accident and, with it, Intelligence and Consciousness writing The Manifest for Unstable Media be very dangerous! could be understood as the outcome of an in 1987. We should look at instability as an endless series of accidents or if there might inherent quality of all living systems and ZC: What about accidents? The DEAF98 be some other concepts to explain it. look at it, not only as something negative was titled Art of an Accident and the that should be eliminated, but also as a upcoming Meta.Morf Biennale in Trondheim In the exhibition of Meta. productive force that can make a system focuses on the theme A Beautiful Accident. Embrace Morf, we are questioning more resilient. Are beautiful accidents dangerous too? how we can understand malfunction intelligence by looking AA: It’s a nice wordplay the way it is framed at how artists make use within Meta.Morf’s theme 2018. A beautiful and the of artificial intelligence Accident has something paradoxical, of accident in their work. AI, in these References: course. works, is a simulation of (1) Delusions of Self-Immolation by Erik Hobijn a possible intelligent system, or a learning http://v2.nl/archive/works/delusions-of-self- In principle, most people feel a negative system that tries to develop some kind of immolation connotation to the word accident. It is not intelligence. V2.NL Evening of the Black Box Concerns, V2_, 2017.

22 23 ROY ASCOTT Roy Ascott EE ISSUE 3, 2018

globally interconnected. In fact, we are not. is a deeply serious Networking That raises an important question: “To what problem, even for CONSCIOUSNESS extent will interconnection be voluntary those who thought calls for and or oppressive?” I mean, in the streets, you they benefited from cannot help it if someone says: “Hey, you.” capitalism. Those will eventually And you cannot stop someone from stepping who thought they IN DANGER in your way and asking a question. Whereas, were privileged and enhance new if it happened telematically, what would it thought capitalism ROY ASCOTT mean? Are we going to be bombarded? is the thing are political, social, How will we deal with messages, contacts, now questioning it. Roy Ascott (GB) (born 1934) is an Hege Tapio (HT): Technological advances information flow? Huge questions arise They don’t know and economic influential British artist and teacher continue to change the way we communicate when we become telematic. As I say, at the the alternative; they engaged with the theoretical and practical and interact, urging us to explore new modes moment, it is play, it is theater, it is useful, and have only very simple strategies application of cybernetics (the study of of operation and new ways of making. In this of course, as always, it is for the privileged. If things, like soviet communism or something context, what is dangerous art to you? networks of dynamic relationships) to art. you live in a space like New York downtown, of the deep past that they don’t quite Since the 1960s, he has been a practitioner you will have Wi-Fi on call, like water is on understand. I think that is the interesting Roy Ascott (RA): of interactive computer art, electronic art, call there, but in most parts of the world, moment we are in now. Networking calls for Well, the danger is The danger is cybernetic art, and telematic art; examples you do not have it. But most parts of the and will eventually enhance new political, very simple. It is art of his pioneering works were recently world strain towards it and act as if they’ve social, and economic strategies. Artists that sets its own limits very simple included in Electronic Superhighway at got it. So, let’s talk about these things when have a role to play in this. and develops within itself, speaks only to the Whitechapel Gallery in London and we’ve got some telematic situations. But I itself, and resides alone within the materialist at MAAT in Lisbon. Ascott has taught and do think we will see implants in the body for HT: The topic of artificial intelligence has model of the universe. Dangerous, where advised internationally. He is widely seen the reception and transmission of electronic become a hyped field of interest for artists the technology employed supports political as a radical innovator in arts education messages, and the sharing of our individual too. It also is the topic of Ars Electronica oppression - capitalism, for example - and and research and is the founding president biological, and Festival 2017. How do you see the artist’s role is supported by it. Dangerous, because it We all play with of the Planetary Collegium, an advanced eventually, in this field of technological development? refuses to explore out-of-body states, while research network that he set up in 2003, psychic states. playing with ideas of us getting off the this idea of and is also DeTao Master of Technoetic I think that’s RA: I am particularly interested in what AI surface of the earth. Arts at DTMA in Shanghai. He received the being globally inevitable. In virtual worlds have used. People in various first Ars Electronica Golden Nica award for fact, if you look ways are testing out the persona they might HT: How do you see network technologies Visionary Pioneer of Media Art in 2014. interconnected. at Apple and adopt under different circumstances. So, affecting the future of human consciousness? Google and so we are already dealing with creating and The following is an edited transcript from on, that is the playing with a range of ‘selves’. We are no the conversation between Roy Ascott In fact, we RA: The next interesting and probably only place they longer stuck with “this is me and this is how and Hege Tapio in Corfu, May 27th, 2017. important moment will be when the interface are not have left to go. I was” - I may now have another me over of telematic networks moves into the body. It is virtually there; most people walk around HT: Considering the growing immersion in with this thing in their hands 24/7. It is a network and global connectedness, what short step to an implant. And when that is do you think are the biggest dangers for our done, we can explore other kinds of thinking future society and culture? processes that can be put to work. We can begin to understand better the universal RA: Well, they are obvious, with fascism on form of organism, which we tend to forget, the rise in the US and Europe. There can be particularly politically. We seem to be too access to channels of thought and to ways of often concerned with isolation of the ‘self’, resolving issues and problems and projects of the individual, and we too little think of that cannot be absolutely secure; that is the ourselves as part of larger organisms. We first thing. As the understanding of networks live in a kind of fraudulent situation. Most increases, so does the knowledge about of the time, we need to have the Wi-Fi how to break into and abuse these networks. prepared in the environment. It is still not So, it is thought to be dangerous and will as freely available as water, and God knows impact the front line of political assertions there is enough restriction on water across and political movements. And, most sadly, the planet. So, at the moment, it is a sort of it will do so in all the systematic advances myth, and we all play with this idea of being for and in the hands of capitalism. That Roy Ascott at Ars Electronica 2014, Linz. Change Painting (1961) by Roy Ascott.

24 25 Roy Ascott EE ISSUE 3, 2018

Blackboard Notes (1969) by Roy Ascott. consequence The consciousness Those who wish to exercise power over pay for art, unless Many authorities of artificial others must ensure others’ access to the it can be related intelligence. is primordial and field of consciousness is extremely limited. to investment, and have damned On the other You can see education as a process for that ties into the hand, we organisms move doing precisely that, rather than what it meaning attached my educational have the fun is supposed to do: open up the mind. And to the work, what aspect about towards greater remember State education was introduced it conveys, the policies as too robots and in Britain in the 19th century in the service of values of a period, so forth, and and greater industry to create a productive workforce. or the notability of radical I think we It was the same thing, I believe, in ancient an individual, or the power of the state or are living in access to it Egypt. The same with the Royal College whatever. If you say the function of art is it. I think it is a childish stage of thinking of Art, created in 1831, essentially to make not to transmit values, ideas and so on, but we will make sort of other people that look products more marketable to move faster. to enable the creation of values, ideas and like us. Of course, we will be looking at To get back to the question, I think the experiences by the viewer, then I think that endowing environments with intelligence. consciousness is primordial and organisms -in terms of the art market and in terms of So, if we want a cup of tea, don’t expect a move towards greater and greater access to art history- is probably a dangerous idea. little person. On the other hand, we don’t it. And we have developed this organ, the expect the kettle to start boiling. We have brain, which has access to it. But there are completely different systems for doing this other cultures that quite early discovered References: stuff that needs to be done externally to the intelligence in which accumulated (1) Change Paintings ourselves. knowledge in one individual shared with http://www.englandgallery.com/artists/artists_ others produces knowledge and we can group/?mainId=253&media=ALL HT: Where is the human body in all of this? access it through various systems. So, with plants, for example, in the forest in South RA: That is a America, the ayahuasca has its essential role good question. Plants as in the development of consciousness and The human body awareness in those sorts of cultures. There in my view, as possessing is a lot for us to learn about intelligence we understand from nature. it, represents intelligence and an evolutionary HT: What is the most dangerous thing you there. But when you think of the way some moment towards giving access to have done as an artist? people could become involved and could the realization have five or six avatars within a situation of a universal consciousness There is a RA: I suppose it is the at the same time, we are beginning to consciousness. I think, primordially, we have Change Paintings I look at the idea of managing these many consciousness. I see space and consciousness lot for us to produced (1), which selves. These avatars will quickly acquire as primordial fields. Organisms on our introduced the idea of artificial intelligence, so they will have planet evolve to navigate these fields, you learn about interaction and the idea response mechanisms, including emotions, could say, or to exercise themselves or that the viewer makes for example, that have proved to be quite develop, or to enter into those two fields intelligence the picture, makes useful in our own evolution. And intellectual - space and consciousness - some more the meaning. Equally, persuasions, for example, will be something advanced than others. For example, we from nature many authorities have that artificial intelligence will be able to get the idea that dogs probably have more damned my educational policies as too deal with spontaneously in real time. I access to consciousness than tulips, but it is radical, although not in China, where my think this will mean not certain. We know plants have a sensory studio is greatly supported. And art is These avatars we become managers apparatus that recognizes change, not just seen as a system that includes the artist, of these selves. What in terms of nutrition in their environment. the artwork, and the viewer and which will quickly the ‘We’ is, what the Ayahuasqueros in South America recognise overturned the idea that the artist transmits acquire ‘I’ is - is an interesting plants as possessing intelligence and giving meaning to the viewer and the viewer learns philosophical question. access to consciousness. We seem to sit to receive it. It was probably dangerous and artificial On one hand, I think at the top of that development; we have could have been seen as dangerous to the the management of greater access. There is every inhibition to way art and cultural authority more generally intelligence many selves is where deny it in Western societies for fear of the was and still is. I mean, nobody wants to we are heading as a consequences for political control. Plastic Transactions (1971) by Roy Ascott.

26 27 Roy Ascott EE ISSUE 3, 2018

The following interview had to be censored due to the risk and danger of potential self- harm and self-incrimination inflicted upon the artist by herself. We hope to bring you an uncensored version in the next issue.

29 EE ISSUE 3, 2018

Whatever EE publishes, we aim to protect our artists, contributors and audience from any harmful danger existing outside these pages.

30 31 UPCOMING EVENTS EE ISSUE 3, 2018

GROWING ART IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, WE DARE YOU 25 YEARS OF LIAISONS TO COME TRY. SYMBIOTICA’S DANGEREUSES BETWEEN RESIDENCY PROGRAM IS ART AND TECHNOLOGY DANGEROUSLY OPEN. NEURAL.IT SYMBIOTICA.UWA.EDU.AU/RESIDENTS/

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33 Roy Ascott EE ISSUE 3, 2018 Reclining Nude (2018)

Photo: Julian Blaue as Reclining Nude

35 JULIAN BLAUE Photo:Julian BlaueJulian Blaue at The Henie Onstad Kunstsenter. EE ISSUE 3, 2018

STRUCTURAL VIOLENCE AS ART JULIAN BLAUE

Julian Blaue (D/NO) is known for his understanding the arguments and the rage transgressive and often violent acts of of the “enemy,” applauds the violence, self-expression. With his ongoing artistic which is directed against his country, class, research Ph.D. (at (UiA, NO)) he has and race. inverted his stylistic approach and – almost in a Christ-like manner - turned towards At the heart of my current Globalized an inner state of feeling shameful as his work, which also is part new performative tool. And dangerous of my artistic-scientific capitalism, it is: together with his family of four, he Ph.D., there is a very similar will search for two criminals from a poor paradox: I’m developing a which I Brazilian favela who violently robbed performance, that criticizes them three years earlier. Why? In what uneven distribution of presume to might be perceived as a twisted turn of wealth, using a personal potlatch economy, taking his theory into experience. Christmas 2015 be violent praxis, he wants to involve the criminals my family and I were assaulted and robbed as collaborators in his next performance, by two poor armed men in Rio de Janeiro. intending to level out the inherent violence First, I perceived us as victims and the men of capitalism’s hierarchical structure. Here as perpetrators. Later I understood that one in his own words: can also explain the incident the other way around. Namely as a result of economic SHAME IS A REVOLUTIONARY inequality. The two men are on the bottom of a global economic hierarchy, while my SENTIMENT family is in the middle. The assault on us is By Julian Blaue also an assault on that hierarchy. To put it like that means to rationalize the attack. I can In which ways can the paradoxical relationship understand the violence of the underclass Me being between white French Philosopher Jean Paul against the economical class I am a part of. Sartre and black militant enemy of the French This understanding of somebody, you also Frantz Fanon, inspire artistic criticism of could define as an antagonist, is the link capitalism? between my paradox and the Sartre-Fanon-

paradox. Can their answers help me finding Reading Frantz Fanon’s essay Wretched of co-responsible for my answers? the Earth, and Jean Paul Sartre’s preface to it is a paradoxical It is part of my project to go back to Rio Why did we experience: On one de Janeiro, getting in touch with the two hand, you have an angry the assault against get robbed men (the police know their identity). If black decolonization possible, I will invite them to participate writer, arguing for in Rio de in my performance. Exploring their social a violent rebellion situation, I hope to understand their against Europe, the Janeiro on motives. And thus, hopefully, the effects of myself colonizing continent. globalized capitalism, which I presume to On the other, you have Christmas be violent. Julian Blaue a white, European Eve? star intellectual, who,

36 37 Julian Blaue EE ISSUE 3, 2018

Julian Blaue during a performance. ENVY An obvious question that could be asked In Rio de Janeiro, the local underclass Fanon gives us an explanation of the violent with Fanon’s analyses of envy in mind is this: works in big scale and for little money for power of the colonized. The colonized man Why did we get robbed in Rio de Janeiro the pleasant lifestyle of the local and global is an envious man, he states. When one has on Christmas Eve? Assaulting a little family middle and upper class. By using buses the experience of being underprivileged during “the celebration of love,” with the with underpaid bus-drivers or sleeping and at the same time has (visual) access iconic Rio-statue of Christo Redentor above in hotel rooms that are cleaned by poorly to the privileged life of the colonizers, envy us, appeared at first to be pure cynicism, paid cleaning ladies, often coming to the seems to be an obvious emotional result. pure cruelty. At least out of the perspective cities from their favela, my family and I have Fanon goes as far as writing the famous of the Christian tradition. But in times of gained touristic benefits from structural words: globalized capitalism there’s a stronger violence against the underclass. Maybe the ideology ruling, even on Christmas, or bus driver and the cleaning ladies were the The colonized wants “to sit at the settler’s shall I say: especially on Christmas? The parents of the two men assaulting us to table, to sleep in the settler’s bed, with his ideology of consumption. Instead of calling gain the money their parents couldn’t gain wife if possible.” it the “celebration of love” one could define in their jobs? In this sense, I can speak about Christmas as “celebration of capital,” and my co-responsibility for the violence of the One could Fanon writes a whole thus as the day where the underclass feels suppressed, as much as Sartre can speak phenomenology of the it’s lack of capital even stronger. And hence about the responsibility he and his nation define envy of the colonized. it’s revolutionary envy. Could it be that the have for the violence of the colonized. The motive of the two men had good reasons to be envious violence, that produces the criticized Christmas as underprivileged, nourishing on this particularly symbolic day? And SELF-CRITICISM injustice. And in a world where the critic has therefore, ventured from the poor favela begun to feel the violence of the victims, his rage with the feeling The most inspirational and surprising into the paved city of the middle- and upper coming back to his class as a boomerang. “celebration of envy, can be applied to aspect of Sartre’s relationship to Fanon is classes, violently redistributing wealth? I believe that globalized capitalism at the my project. Rich and poor the aspect of self-criticism. It is surprising of capital” clash together in the city beginning of the 21st century is such a world because it is uttered on the background and that the assault on us in Rio in 2015 can of Rio de Janeiro (making invisible global BOOMERANG of existing violence against the class, race, inequalities visible). This resembles the co- be explained in accordance to this. I never One of the premises of my project is the and nationality he is a part of, and on the want to experience it again. existence of colonized and colonizer in the (provoking) paradox of me being co- background of Fanon’s threat of anti-colonial same city, a co-existence of unfortunate responsible for the assault against myself. If violence in the future. To be self-critical is Self-criticism can lead to shame. Sartre differences that Fanon describes as the I seriously want to argue for that hypothesis, a demanding task precondition for being envious: The suggests having the courage to read I have to find out how I, as a representative My family and – and all the more Wretched of the Earth, because “it will underprivileged can continuously compare of the global middle class, in the first place so when the ones his situation with the privileged one. make you ashamed, and shame, as Marx am co-responsible for violence against I have gained who made you self- said, is a revolutionary sentiment.” Shame the global underclass, which the two men critical are ready to can be the emotion coming up when one represent. For touristic be violent against The (provoking) confronts themself with the fact that they the underclass, you. The reason are part of the structural violence against violence against benefits from Sartre nevertheless paradox of the underprivileged. I will highlight this the middle class is structural feels he has to be sentiment in my project, hoping that maybe - to speak me being co- self-critical is that he others will feel as ashamed as I do and thus with Sartre - only violence agrees with Fanon pave the way to a boomerang; responsible that the colonizers transformation. I do Shame is the an effect of the against the themselves indirectly think that shame is violence the for the assault have produced the the precondition for precondition middle class has underclass violence against developing a will to inflicted on them. against myself themselves: “It is the change globalized for developing moment of the boomerang; it is the third capitalism. Sartre also criticized himself for being part phase of violence; it comes back on us, it a will to change of a class and a nation that he meant was strikes us, and we do not realize any more responsible for violence against colonized than we did the other times that it’s we who globalized people. Today it is less one country that have launched it,” Sartre states. exploits another country. It is instead capitalism the global middle and upper classes that Sartre’s self-critical attitude is very inspiring exploit the global underclass. There are still for criticism of global injustice in a world structures that lead to unequal life chances. where the critic himself is part of structural

Julian and his family in Rio de Janeiro, 2015.

38 39 DALILA HONORATO Dalila Honorato EE ISSUE 3, 2018

TABOO Portrait of Niccolò Machiavelli by Santi di Tito. HT: What are the limits of art that explore taboos, transgressions, and transcendence? TRANSGRESSION They expand; DH: They expand. This is the good thing this is the about limits. We TRANSCENDENCE start with the taboo, good thing a limit that -socially DALILA HONORATO speaking- we do not about limits want to pass over. Dalila Honorato (PT/GR), Ph.D., is an Hege Tapio (HT): What inspired you Then, there is transgression, when someone Assistant Professor in Media Aesthetics to organize the conference “Taboo - does not accept what everybody else seems and Semiotics at the Department of Audio Transgression - Transcendence in Art & to agree with, for example, that you are not and Visual Arts of the Ionian University in Science”? (1) How did it come to life? supposed to eat French fries. If someone it, forcing things into an unstable state Greece. She is a founding member of their says: “I can eat French fries, let me try one,” of being. This can be seen in anything, Interactive Arts Lab. In 2017, she organized Dalila Honorato (DH): then that is a moment of transcendence. including art. I am a social scientist, so this the Taboo-Transgression-Transcendence in It is an act of necessity You can Through the act of expanding and pushing is my feedback from a person that follows Art & Science conference. to do something limits a little further, others might follow. Or hide and what is happening in art. provocative in a moment not. Or you might even die doing it. This is when everything seems the story of science, the story of Galileo. The following is a transcript from the conversation kill yourself, HT: Do you think society will ever run out of prohibited, forbidden. The story of every visionary. You might die between Dalila Honorato and Hege Tapio in for your vision. You might die by pushing taboos? Corfu on May 27th, 2017. In Greece, we are not or you do supposed to have the limits - but everybody else might follow. DH: No, that is money to do anything We were not trying to get killed at the Others might an act of the thing. After that is not saving the conference. Things are just so foggy at this transcendence, population, solving moment, socially, politically, economically, follow. Or not. Or madness when you pass some sort of (economic) everywhere, not just Greece. Everybody is over that taboo, difficulty. We are denied compromised, so I think we need to review you might even and passion there is a new all sorts of support for research and art our taboos and measure the possibilities of limitation. And production. When things are really hard transgression. And if transgression works, die doing it. after finding that new border, we need to you have two options - you can hide and and if it is a holistic act of transgression, you get a little stable for a certain time. It is kill yourself, or you do an act of madness should go through transcendence. like, when you go up or down the steps, and passion. I choose to say: “I want to do you always stop for a second. So that is this. I am alive. And I have the right to do HT: We live in dangerous times. Is art getting what comes after transgression. Once you it.” The conference is revenge against all more dangerous as well? have reached it, once you have pushed the the negative mood around. It keeps getting border, you will find a new limit. And that harder, but we have growing support DH: I hope so. Talking about art and design, limit will be called taboo, and it will give from people who want to participate. The I appreciate an effective way of presenting birth to reactions, and that will be the new conference is more an act of activism than things and symmetrical designs. But the transgression and new transcendence. anything else. thing is, we are crooked. We are monsters, we Some things go back and forth. If you push are a mixture of things, we are not pure, we too much and too fast in a certain direction, HT: Have there ever been works left out are a lot of things. We are here to get mixed you might have the opposite effect. I think, because they were too far over the edge? with the environment, and there is no such thing as stability. Stability is a dangerous if you check history, you can see we go back and forth a lot of times. But that movement DH: No. But, of course, we cannot accept act, or it is getting dangerous, because it is is the important part. So, fuel it! everybody. This year, we cut two-thirds something that cannot be sustained. One of the proposals that were not directly of my favourite political thinkers, Niccolò connected to the subject. But many people We are Machiavelli (1469-1527), would like to attend. That gives me fuel. talked about that; you can invest a lot of energy trying You are not able to see the results (of the References: crooked. to keep things in a certain conference) immediately, but it eventually (1): Interdisciplinary Conference - TABOO - comes with time. We are state, but the simple act of TRANSGRESSION - TRANSCENDENCE keeping things in a certain in Art & Science. state brings pollution to https://avarts.ionio.gr/ttt/ Dalila Honorato at Taboo Transgression Transcendence monsters. Conference 2017 in Corfu.

40 41 MARNIX DE NIJS Marnix de Nijs EE ISSUE 3, 2018

Marnix de Nijs at V2_, Rotterdam, Netherlands, 2017. This work triggers I love big extreme emotions. We ART OF FEAR had a presentation at machines Nuite Blanche which is an all night long MARNIX DE NIJS and machine exhibition in Paris. And then somewhere Marnix de Nijs is a Dutch installation artist. Zane Cerpina (ZC): What is dangerous art violence in the middle of the As a pioneer of Dutch media art since the to you? night drunk people were getting crazy and mid-90s, de Nijs makes use of high-concept really tried to challenge the work putting mechanics, software and ever-evolving Marnix de Nijs (MN): Most of my works themselves in danger, even stepping over technologies to create interactive artworks are about physical participation, direct the fence. That was the point where it went that play with the viewer’s perception of gut feeling and emotions you get from a bit too far but then again, I am challenging image, sound and movement. an interactive work. them a with the work to do so. Fear is one of the Fear is one very basic feelings I ZC: How would you define your artists’ The following is a transcript of the conversation manifesto? between Marnix de Nijs and Zane Cerpina in play with. Therefore, of the very Rotterdam, December 2017. I sometimes put the public in a dangerous basic feelings MN: I simply have a taste for extreme works situation, so they and therefore I also enjoy dangerous works actually experience I play with that are physically involving and dangerous. fear. I love big machines and machine violence.

ZC: Are you a dangerous artist? ZC: The physicality is mesmerizing, but why are we so attached to our gadgets? MN: I made some artworks that are quite dangerous. Especially SPATIAL SOUNDS MN: Technological devices are getting (100dB at 100km/h) (1) - the big spinning smaller and therefore less physical, I guess speaker piece, where you would have to it is one of the reasons why my little bit control a speaker by moving around it. It’s old-school big interfaces are still popular a massive machine equipped with sensors at festivals, because you need something that reacts on you. When it gets a sensory physical at a festival. You cannot organise a overload, it will start spinning at the top speed festival with only VR glasses and computer of about 100 km/h. It is a big monitor-size screens, you know. speaker, if you stick a hand in front of it, your arm would snap, if you step over the fence, ZC: What are you working on right now? you could possibly die. It is of course clear where you should go and where you should MN: The works I am doing now are also not, but people are always teasing the work. physically participatory. They involve the And your perception gets tricked because it body a lot, but is a spinning speaker and it spins at a speed Your ear gets it is less about so fast that it generates a Doppler effect. danger as such. It That affects your experience - you cannot confused and is more about the locate the speakers complexity and anymore. So you see If you step therefore your stories I can tell where the speaker is brain gets with the image. visually, but your ear over the gets confused and fucked up References: therefore your brain fence, (1): Spatial Sounds (100dB at 100km/h) is an gets fucked up. You interactive audio installation by Marnix de Nijs don’t really perceive you could and Edwin van der Heide. the exact size of the possibly die http://www.marnixdenijs.nl/spatial-sounds.htm work anymore. MARNIXDENIJS.NL Spatial Sounds (100 dB at 100 km/h) at Prix Ars Electronica 2001, Linz.

42 43 UPCOMING EVENTS EE ISSUE 3, 2018

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45 CATHRINE KRAMER & Photo:Cathrine Smog Kramer Tasting & Zack (2011)Denfeld by the Center for EE ISSUE 3, 2018 Genomic Gastronomy, Bangalore, India. ZACK DENFELD FEEDING DANGEROUS IDEAS CATHRINE KRAMER & ZACK DENFELD

Cathrine Kramer (NO) and Zack Denfeld ZC: What is the most dangerous thing you (US) founded the Center for Genomic have done as artists? Gastronomy (2010), an artist-led think tank examining the biotechnologies and CK: We breathe polluted We harvested biodiversity of human food systems. The air every day! Well, we mission of the Center is to map food can mention our Smog concentrated controversies, prototype alternative Tasting (1) performance culinary futures, and imagine a more just, where we harvested smog by biodiverse and beautiful food system. Cat concentrated smog by and Zack are dedicated to the advancement whipping egg whites and whipping egg of knowledge at the intersection of food, to bake cookies. We had culture, ecology, and technology. The a funny interaction on the whites Center presents its research through public street because we did it as part of a public lectures, research publications, meals, and festival. There was a woman who came by, exhibitions. and after tasting the cookie, she said to The following is a transcript of the conversation Zack, “Oh, my throat hurts! I thought you between Cathrine Kramer, Zack Denfeld and were abstract artists.” We replied, “No, we Zane Cerpina in June 2017, Dublin. are realists.” She seemed to understand and not be too angry about her scratchy throat. Zane Cerpina (ZC): You are working with ZD: We are very keen on being material- somewhat dangerous food ingredients in accurate whenever we can. If we are feeding If we are feeding your projects: radiation, pollution and even smog to people, we want to have the actual bringing extinct species back to life just chemicals there. We want to have people to eat them again. Do you consider your confronted with the reality of that material. artistic practice to be dangerous? We are always striving to have that aspect smog to people, Cathrine Kramer (CK): Our work doesn’t necessarily deal with dangerous materials, but dangerous ideas instead. We try to challenge how people see the world and how we want to they see themselves. Our projects can make people uncomfortable, but we don’t pick a side in what we bring to the discussion. As soon as People often ask: have the actual “Are you for or against Genetically you pick a Modified Foods?” As soon as you pick a side, you shut side, you shut down chemicals there down the the conversation. Instead, let’s all have a Zack Denfeld conversation discussion together.

Cathrine Kramer and Zack Denfeld at their studio, Dublin, 2017.

46 47 Cathrine Kramer & Zack Denfeld EE ISSUE 3, 2018

in our work. When Cat was making a meal that one possible It is good to ecologically minded food justice advocates as part of the Art Meat Flesh (2) event, she, outcome can be a relate to the more deeply reactionary with her colleague, prepared human breast sense of pure disgust. know that foodies? Will we see racists ideologues milk ice cream and served it to the audience. advocating for the revival and consumption It was not enough to just serve simulated CK: Quite often people one possible of “traditional” recipes and ingredients and human breast milk as it was also crucial that get very excited, and the growing of “pure” non-hybrid cultivars? the person gave permission to use her body they want to know outcome can Things are getting very strange around the to feed others, and had to integrate the more, want to talk edges. References: need to pump extra breast milk for eaters about these topics be a sense of (1) Smog Tasting is a work by The Center other than her child into a daily routine. more and want to ZC: And hunger for extinct species? for Genomic Gastronomy, using egg foams to capture and harvest air pollution. Smog explore other ways pure disgust from different locations can so be tasted and ZC: Do you think that your projects Smog of thinking about these issues. There is a ZD: In our project De-extinction Deli (4) compared. Tasting and Cobalt-60 Sauce (3) possibly hunger for having these conversations. we asked if it is likely that some humans http://genomicgastronomy.com/work/2011-2/ can break the taboo of seeing these will eat the species that we revive using smog-tasting/ ingredients as inedible? ZC: Any dangerous idea that you haven’t de-extinction techniques. We ate some of talked about yet? these animals to death the first time around, (2) Art Meat Flesh was a TV-Style cooking ZD: That was one of the criticisms we had to has human nature changed that much in the competition including two teams of deal with: “Why are you even talking about ZD: I guess it is a dangerous idea that we meantime? These are cultural, not scientific philosophers, scientists, chefs and artists GMOs (Genetically Modified Organisms)? haven’t fully articulated yet - the idea of questions, but they are dangerous because battling in a TV-style cooking competition for supremacy over a remarkable secret ingredient. You shouldn’t even talk about them!” or culinary eugenics. We have this terrible we feel very uncomfortable about admitting The event took place at V2_, Institute for “What do you as an artist, know about this history of human eugenics, especially in the that the generations before us ate whole Unstable Media. topic?” But we are focusing on gastronomy United States - where racial ideology was species to death. As an example, 6 billion http://v2.nl/events/test_lab-art_meat_flesh which is the art of collecting, assembling and is deeply mixed up with scientific theory pigeons in the and cooking food. Gastronomy is an art and and historical practices for deciding what Humans will United States were (3) The Cobalt-60 Sauce by The Center for has to take seriously uncomfortable topics kind of humans should live, die, or reproduce hunted to death Genomic Gastronomy is a barbecue sauce made and materials and to be open to the range - based on their “genetic fitness.” Emerging eat the species for their feathers from common mutation-bred ingredients. of subjectivities and preferences that exist. technologies potentially allow for the more and their fat. We http://genomicgastronomy.com/work/2013-2/ precise selection of genes in humans, rather that we revive have improved a cobalt-60-sauce/ CK: I almost hope that the concept of smog than the much blunter “selection” of people. lot as a species in using de- (4) The De-extinction Deli by The Center for tasting becomes normalized because it is The debates between bioconservatives past two hundred Genomic Gastronomy is a fantastical market an invisible ingredient we didn’t think about and techno-utopianists are starting to extinction years, but would stand that is designed to highlight the emerging before. For example, we could imagine a mix up normative ideological positions on we make the same technologies, risks, and outcomes of the future where recipes include modifications the political spectrum. Food politics are a techniques mistakes now? growing movement to bring back and possibly for both high-altitude and high ppm strange parallel conversation to debates eat extinct species. levels. Aeroir, the unique over human genetic engineering. Almost ZC: Maybe we should genetically modify http://genomicgastronomy.com/work/2013-2/ Only two atmospheric taste of place all the food we eat has been selectively- our bodies to eat in different ways in the deli/ affects how we eat, what we bred, domesticated, and increasingly may new age of the Anthropocene? people have eat and how we experience also involve mutagenesis, transgenesis, GENOMICGASTRONOMY.COM thrown up the flavour. CRISPR and speed breeding techniques. ZD: I guess we have already been But the resurgence of xenophobia and genetically modifying our bodies in a lot ZC: Food is a very sensitive topic, very fascism thought the U.S. and Europe has a of ways. Scientists are looking at a lot of personal. Can you talk more about what bizarre culinary dimension. intergenerational changes right now and reactions you get from the audience? In the US you can see The idea how our bodies have changed over a short advertisements for open- time. But you can see that we have always CK: Only two people have thrown up. pollinated seed varieties of culinary changed our bodies if you look at our gut on conservative media. microbiome. People are always modifying ZD: Yes, which is a great reaction! For one Reactionary “Blood and eugenics themselves based on what they eat. hung-over audience member, the smell was Soil” ideologies have often romanticized too strong, and he got sick, but another the rural and tried to define what is CK: And we are only at the very beginning person at the Art Meat Flesh event could not “authentically” local. It is unclear how of understanding what role the microbes overcome the anxiety when the lab-grown concepts of re-localization, gastronomical in our guts play. As we learn to understand meat was served. I think they got quite preservation, food innovation and emerging that, I think there is going to be a whole physically ill and that is not an experience biotechnology will all relate to each other lot of new ways to modify ourselves by you hope for, but I think it is good to know in five years’ time. How will anti-corporate, modifying our guts. That is exciting! Zack Denfeld presenting The De-extinction Deli, 2013.

48 49 Zoran Todorović EE ISSUE 3, 2018

A taste of Assimilation. ZT: Yes, but I also used professional chefs who aestheticized food, so this involved the HUMAN GOURMET process of aestheticization, or normalization, of our bodies and some piece of meat. I wanted to connect to and problematize ZORAN TODOROVIĆ the process of aestheticization by using the taboo of cannibalism. Zoran Todorović is a Serbian performance SS: Can you briefly explain your work and video artist. Zoran deals with modes of ASSIMILATION? (1) SS: What was the procedure of cooking and enacting bio-political control and explores serving? How did people perceive it? the ways in which institutional spaces of Zoran Todorović (ZT): It I used plastic control and punishment are inscribed in is a simple idea to make ZT: For chefs, that was an interesting the body. He is best known for his new food out of human flesh surgery experience! They were very excited about it. media and video works that often shocks and body, but it is also For the But for the audience, it was and confronts the viewer. about the concept of clinics to a moment of conflict. For beauty. I used plastic example, people who ate it surgery clinics to collect audience, had to explain and justify underlying problem about this work is a The following is a transcript of the conversation collect the sanitary one. The British are concerned between Zoran Todorovi , Stahl Stenslie and the (human) material why they did it to the ć it was a whether the offered food is healthy, and Zane Cerpina in October 2016, in the Youth for meals. I also took (human) other part of the audience House in Belgrade (Serbia). pictures of patients moment of who refused to taste it. So, it is only in Britain that it is prohibited for during those surgeries. material for it was some moment of the audience to taste this food since it was Assimilation works as conflict conflict and attention. not possible to get the sanitary certificate some short circuit or, meals for this food, which otherwise, in other in psychological terms, as the artificially SS: Were the patients notified about the places, was eaten for the most part during created cognitive dissonance which disturbs project? the performance. us through the simultaneous occurrence of The performances Cannibalism is two contradictory phenomena. ZT: No. The patients were not involved in usually function in that story. The material was acquired from such a way that during not forbidden, SS: Did you take part in the actual surgeries? the surgeons, and it was an agreement the performances at least not in between doctors and me. themselves there’s the ZT: Yes, I was one of the medical discussion going on Europe team photographers who followed the SS: What about the taste? between those who procedures. In the end, they usually throw tasted the food and those who refused it (the human waste material) in the toilet, ZT: I don’t know because I never tasted it. it. On one occasion the discussion which but I just collected and kept it. For the first First, I did not want to eat human flesh. But started at the exhibition in Novi Sad ended performance, I asked a professional chef another reason was more artistic. I always up in the parliament of Vojvodina province. for advice, and he suggested to make some want to avoid a situation in which I make aspic dish - local traditional food. Because a performance out of myself, like a theater SS: British would have been punished if I wanted to prepare food for many people, where audience looks at what the artist is they ate it? the first time I collected doing. leftovers from a face- I collected ZT: They didn’t allow it, I don’t know what lifting surgery (which SS: What were the exact reactions from the would happen if someone tried to. was done with only a leftovers from audience? small cut and therefore a face-lifting SS: How many people have tasted your produced little material), ZT: In different places, I hear different food? How many have crossed the taboo of an aspic recipe sounded surgery reactions. For example, here in Serbia, eating human flesh? like a promising idea. Croatia and especially Slovenia, many people wanted to taste it and to open ZT: I don’t know the number of people, SS: You are connecting beauty and the some discussion around it. But in central but many. When I was setting up the body, and there are many other artists who Europe, for instance, and especially in performance, I put up very detailed have done that using body as a material. Germany, the primary question is whether information with pictures and many details But you have taken a step further to share it this performance is legal; the answer may about the prepared meal. I tried to avoid with your audience, so you do the cooking surprise you – cannibalism is not forbidden, misunderstandings about what the food and the eating as a piece of art. at least not in Europe. In Great Britain, the was made from. Zoran Todorović at Belgrade Youth Center (Dom Omladine Beograda; DOB), Belgrade, Serbia, 2016.

50 51 ZoranZoran TodoroviTodorović ć at the Assimilation exhibition. EE ISSUE 3, 2018

SS: Your work touches so many political ZC: Do you think there is moment of and ethical aspects. You take it from the normalization of the taboo (cannibalism), body, prepare it, externalize it, then take it when people taste it? back into your body, of course not just by eating and tasting it, but also by making the ZT: For some people, it human flesh eternal, beautiful. is OK. And also, many Many people people told me that ZT: Yes, As I said beauty is some kind of they would like to taste told me that construction and some kind of politics. On themselves; for some, it that level I want to provoke: what is beauty, is their skin; for some, it they would what does that mean? is their finger. They were just curious. But for like to taste The works I make have relational nature. others that was a very themselves These are procedures or situations which do problematic behavior. not have a finite form and in whose formation the audience is somehow involved. The ZC: And how did chefs perceive the material used in their realization is some challenge of cooking human flesh? kind of tactics in which their institutional and symbolic origin is inscribed. If I make ZT: They almost immediately understood The shit, the snivel, food out of human tissue, then it is essential what the problem was. We carried a tiny that this tissue appears as a waste from piece of meat and had many people who the industry of aesthetic surgery, and potentially might want to taste it. So that therefore it acts as an ‘accursed share’ was the frame for them, practically and the corpse, etc., it is which hinders us to fit into some aesthetic economically. They would add spices and standard. It is a fictional surplus which is other ingredients to prolong the meal. problematic, socially produced, and which in an aestheticized form, in the form of tasteful food, is returned to the public, more some ‘accursed share,’ concretely, to the audience which somehow must react to this normative stoppage in which it found itself. Here the taboo of cannibalism is some method through which the surplus of the a symbolic interruption of its own kind is made, where the effect What is of the abjection occurs beauty, what as a denied truth of waste, which not only medical and normative procedures which relate does that to the body and its aestheticization. mean? References: (1) Assimilation by Zoran Todorovic: belongs to you but This work, as well as some other works which Performance/Action, realized between 1997 and I made, produces the effect of abjection 2016. which does not allow an easy identification with it. Namely, the problem of abjection is A series of events which questioned the idea of in some sense also the problem of the abject (neither the object beauty. It’s about meals, for example, suppers, nor the subject), it is something which is made of human tissue which appears as a external but is also at the same time yours. leftover in the industry of aesthetic surgery. The installation involves showing photo and video For instance, the shit, the snivel, the corpse, documentation that explains the origin and constitutes you etc., it is some ‘accursed share,’ the surplus preparation of the food offered to spectators. of the waste, which not only belongs to you zorantodorovic.com/portfolio_page/ but in some sense also constitutes you… Zoran Todorovi assimilation/ ć ZORANTODOROVIC.COM

52 53 MARKO MARKOVI Ć Marko Marković EE ISSUE 3, 2018

growing divisions among the social classes. only) as humans see I thought They were acts of protest and revolt against themselves, that is, EATING YOURSELF system apparatus. With these actions, I as beings endowed much about have sent out the message to the public with a human figure that we are the owners of our own life, our and habits; seeing what could MARKO MARKOVIĆ body, and our soul. Some of us urge to resist their physical and authorities and understand our freedom as behavioral aspects in come out of Marko Marković is a Croatian artist working Marko Marković (MM): First, I would like to the principles of Anarchism teach us: “The the form of human across the mediums of video, installation relay the project in the context of human liberty of man consists solely in this, that culture. What changes this action and performance. In his works Markovic behavior and consumption regarding the he obeys the laws of nature because he has when passing from one species of subject often includes the audience and other present time. In the past, in challenging, himself recognized them as such, and not to another is the “objective correlative,” the participants as the medium of expression. extreme and brutal circumstances; if people because they have been imposed upon him referent of these concepts: what jaguars The following is a transcript of the conversation came to the point where there was no externally by any foreign will whatsoever, see as “manioc beer” (the proper drink of food, they would perform cannibalism. Of between Marko Marković and Zane Cerpina in human or divine, collective or individual.” people), humans see as “blood.” Any species October 2016, in the Youth House in Belgrade course, we know that in certain tribes, the of subject perceives itself and its world in (Serbia). cannibalistic rituals were performed in a ZC: How big was your meal? the same way we perceive ourselves and way to transfer relative energy through the our world. “Culture” is what one sees of body of dead people - to uplift them in the Zane Cerpina (ZC): You work with the MM: It was about two or three centimeters oneself when one says “I.” new life. This would be the starting point topic of auto-cannibalism and human of skin and flesh underneath the skin. The for me. However, in my performances, I did flesh consumption in your performance experience I got from this performance ZC: How did the audience react? self-consumption as a reflection on modern works. Can you tell more about your work was unique. It is interesting how the public society and today’s human principles. Selfeater? cannot see everything that the performance MM: In both performances, people were consists of; there are always parts invisible shocked. I did not aim to shock, but when The first performance SELFEATER / The for them. Ask the shock comes out of the audience, I thirst (2009) (1) about self-consumption I was drinking yourself, “what is presume that it is a valuable process. In deals with our needs to have a voice and happening with such situations, people are questioning direct our destiny. To exemplify, I was my blood the performer themselves and others around them. Why is drinking my blood through a straw inserted through a before they start something shocking for somebody and for into my intravenous system. to perform?” somebody else it is not? So, it is not in the straw inserted What is happening relation - what the poet wanted to say, it Before I was inside of them is different. What is the meaning that you doing this type I did self- into my while performing? are asking from yourself? In that way the of performance, What comes after audience was also I talked to the consumption intravenous the performance? reacting, some Some people doctors, and they It is the path with people were crying, explained to me in as a reflection system many steps. and some people were crying, which way I need were inspired. to behave, in a on modern For me, this was the most challenging Anyway, shock is and some physical way, not performance I did, because I didn’t know an excellent trigger to harm myself, society what will be after. I thought much about to understand the people were because that was not the point of the what could come out of this action, what are human nature and performance. The point was to give the the possible consequences in the personal, what is underneath inspired statement. After, I went a step further and private and the public space. I took a lot the surface. performed SELFEATER/ Hunger (2009) (2) of preparation for this piece; I overthought in which I made a dinner with myself. There all the possible outcomes that I could see ZC: Did these acts of self-cannibalism was a big white table; a waiter set the table in that time. For me, this performance was somehow changed your relationship to and the medical nurse cut out the piece much more mental than physical training. your own body? of the flesh from my left arm. It was then served on the plate, and I ate it. It was a Eduardo Viveros de Castro explains that MM: This was the period when I was type of ritual as it observes a cultural aspect the possession of a similar soul implies investigating the extreme body art practice. of the environment. the possession of similar concepts, which In such conditions I have developed my determine that all subjects see things in understanding of performance and how can These performances came in particular the same way. Individuals of the same my body be its medium. period of my life when I could perceive the species see each other (and each other Marko Marković in the Youth House in Belgrade, Serbia.

54 55 Marko Marković Marko MarkoviEEć ISSUE performing 3, 2018 SELFEATER/ Hunger, 2009, Zagreb.

Marko Marković performing SELFEATER/ The thirst, 2009, Split. Zagreb, Croatia supported the terminology of auto-cannibalism.

Body art practice has helped me to understand the meaning of the performance and its importance for the people who are dealing with this force. It is dangerous if we don’t know how to control the uncontrollable.

ZC: The drive of why you are doing what you are doing? MM: Yes, it is essential Shock is an to know why you are you doing what you are excellent doing. For example, if I perform body art on trigger to myself, I am okay with it. I wouldn’t do that on understand There was a big anybody else because that would terrorize the human them. If another person is willing to do that, we nature need to ask ourselves, “why is this person white table; a waiter willing to do that?” It is a great responsibility, and we need to be careful not to harm each other. set the table and the medical nurse cut out

When one older colleague saw that I am going to extreme body art practice, he told me, “You need to be careful what you are the piece of the flesh doing. Learn to recognize the wolf inside yourself; the beast is pushing you, and that is a great challenge”. Of course, you need to be aware of your limits, and body art References: from my left arm. It practice is investigating (1) SELFEATER/ The thirst is a performance Learn to those boundaries. It is work by Marko Marković. important to say that http://markovichmarko.blogspot.no/2012/02/ recognize the selfeater-thirst-production-2009-dopust.html these performances was then served on were recognized as most wolf inside extreme body art practice (2) SELFEATER/ Hunger is a performance work in Croatian performance by Marko Marković. yourself http://markovichmarko.blogspot.no/2012/02/ art scene. Performance selfeater-hunger-production-2009.html responses were burdensome, different the plate, and I ate it. opinions from positive to negative. Scientific research by Dr. Suzan Marjanic from the MARKOVICHMARKO.BLOGSPOT.NO Marko Marković Institute of Ethnology and Folklore in galerie-stock.net/en/mm-marko-markovic

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59 ALEXANDRA MURRAY- Alexandra Murray-Leslie EE ISSUE 3, 2018 LESLIE

FASHIONABLY We have Video Still from Chicks on Speed - We don’t play Guitars, 2003. mechanism for change and tortured our for recognizing something new, but I think fashion has DANGEROUS feet for long gotten lost and I am sort of disillusioned from fashion ALEXANDRA MURRAY-LESLIE enough as you can see. But I also think it is something with musical Dr. Alexandra Murray-Leslie is an academic Zane Cerpina (ZC): But I think instruments. They have all been made artist, guest researcher Animal Logic Chicks on Speed for hands, and so the hands have almost Academy, Faculty of Transdisciplinary started as an art really it was been overused because we put so much Innovation, The University of Technology intervention into emphasis on our hands. I almost think that Sydney, and co-founder of the art band commercial music about this act maybe the problems we have today are Chicks on Speed. Her practice-based sector. How have also caused by our hands. So the notion research focuses on the design and things changed of just being of manipulation is pretty negative to the development of somatic wearable musical in the past 20 hand. So if we think about ‘pedi-pulation’, instruments with a focus on computer years? What art bored could that be something positive if we think enhanced foot devices for theatrical interventions do we need in 2018? through our feet, if we feel through our feet, audiovisual expression. if we give more sensitivity to our feet to be Alexandra Leslie Murray (ALM): Melissa in contact with the Earth, it is very related to Somaesthetics philosophy - that through The following is a transcript of the conversation Logan and I founded Chicks on Speed this new sensing maybe we will experience between Alexandra Murray-Leslie and Zane behind the Munich Art Academy as a sort of Cerpina in June 2017, Dublin. subversive act, if you like, and also because around us in a different way, and maybe the we were bored. And it was from there that way we affect the world will also be different, going. And then we got to the corner of this we realized that through art we could only because we have open ourselves up to that. building in a very expensive part of London, reach a certain amount of people. I think we I just feel like we need to use other parts of and I asked them, “Do you know where we just had this strategy that we could impact our body, so my emphasis, my focus is the are?” and they said no, and I said, “We are a lot more people if we made some sort feet because we have tortured our feet for outside the Ecuadorian Embassy, and we of product that would be in between art, long enough and and we have tortured the are going to go and free Julian Assange music, fashion and in a way blow up these Earth for long enough. now.” That was not dangerous, but the boundaries. But I think really it was about dangerous part I found was that some of this act of just being bored. It is always for ZC: Do you want to be dangerous to the the American students got really angry with necessity that you want to make change and fashion industry? me and I felt they were going to take me to change your environment around you, and court. And the activity was about watching I think that is actually ALM: Absolutely dangerous! I think we the watchers watching, so we were carrying the job of the artist. We need to need to be radical now, I think we need to out active surveillance. And today, if you are be absolutely subversive if we are going And in the way that Watching asking about what is be absolutely to make any change. And I think even art, Steve Mann has carried missing, I think more of there is no real reason for art anymore in out ‘Veillance’: we were the watchers us need to maybe stop subversive if the way dead art has been watched from above so making things, so we Absolutely re-made. Only the live is of we were watching from watching need to de-make and we are going interest, they can have a below. But the American students didn’t make in another ways, dangerous! say, they can make change. really understand, and it was at that moment and that is within the to make any that I asked them: “What media do you circular economy. ZC: What is the most dangerous thing you read? What do you listen to?” and they told change have done as an artist? me Fox News, and I said, “Well that is the ZC: Your hacking fashion projects can problem because you need to read broadly, be read as comments on the fast fashion I’ve gotten to travel a few times with some you need to understand what is really going industry? of the workshops. I did a workshop with on.” So I think maybe it is very dangerous Rebecca Fiebrink and Atau Tanaka where when people don’t look around and see a ALM: Yes. I am an activist against fast I teach guerrilla strategies. We go off our broader horizon around them, and that is fashion. Fashion, I think in a way really laptops and we go into the real world. I dangerous for me and I felt in danger. I was doesn’t exist anymore. It used to be a led the students, and I led them and led endangered by my students. Because they them and they didn’t know where we were thought that I was morally incorrect. Alexandra Murray-Leslie during artist talk: Shoe Shredding at Science Gallery Dublin, 2017.

60 61 ALEXANDRA MURRAY- Alexandra Murray-Leslie Alexandra Murray-LeslieEE ISSUE duriing 3, 2018 the Watching the watchers watching activity. LESLIE

Chicks on Speed performing at ARS Electronica 2017, Linz, Austria. I think the refreshing Make mistakes thing about Autodesk was that the reason because it is why they bring artists in is to make the mistakes trouble, to push the boundaries of where that lead the machines can go, to reprogram the you to the machines, to hack the machines, to get into unexpected the G-Code and fuck things up; they want outcomes that. And I think that is really unique and I think that is how more companies should be because it is the artists that are going to advance the software, they are going to advance these machines because they are going to want to do things that the machines can’t do yet.

So it is these experiences of artists coming up with ideas, experimenting with these machines, experimenting with fabrication methods in order to make steps towards the unknown, and that is something I am really interested in. So not just creating an STL file, giving it away, or even putting it in yourself and sending it to the printer. But going, “Okay, I have sent my file, now how can I actually physically mess with this machine to change my print?” And I find that physicality really exciting because I We are outside the mm a performer and I see the 3D printer as a stage for action. So if I just put my ZC: What about your residency at Autodesk, STL file in and I push ‘Start’ and I have to what experiences did you get out of it? watch it for 16 hours, I feel left out of the performance, so I want to stop it, I want Ecuadorian Embassy, ALM: I think working with people that have to embed stuff and I want to change the an expertise in so many different areas, so nature of the output of the print because this notion of being able to collaborate with in a way these 3D printers, they are too an astronaut, collaborate with somebody perfect, there are no mistakes. A lot of our and we are going to who does 3D printed glass. In a way of work has to do with craft and manual labor, bringing in all these areas and seeing where and I think there needs to be more of an can a collaboration grow. So I really went integration of traditional craft methods of in there with a pretty open mind, and sure making with the digital making, so opening I wanted to create another prototype of go and free Julian the printer up, scraping a bit around. And my shoes through 3D printing, but aside make mistakes because it is the mistakes from that I also wanted to see what would that lead you to the unexpected outcomes. happen and to be open to those inputs from those different people. And I ended Assange now. up coming out with a couple videos, I did choreography with robots, I learned how to program the choreography with a robot. Alexandra Murray-Leslie

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65 UPCOMING EVENTS

ARTISTIC RESEARCH WILL EAT ITSELF The ninth edition of the SAR International Conference on Artistic Research University of Plymouth, April 11th - 13th 2018 The provocation Artistic Research Will Eat Itself can be understood as a warning against the dangers of methodological introspection, or as a playful invitation to explore the possibilities of a field in a constant state of becoming. In this context, the ‘cannibalism’ of artistic research ‘eating itself’ embodies a dynamic tension between self-destruction and regeneration. hsarconference2018.org

DANGEROUS FUTURES CONFERENCE Conference @ Meta.Morf 2018, May 4 & 5, 2018, Trondheim, Norway Curator and moderator: Zane Cerpina / Co-curator: Espen Gangvik Gaia is a tough bitch. The catastrophe has already happened. The word “crisis” is the default mode in this the age of the Anthropocene. We are obsessed with the ecological apocalypse. Scared shit-less by the propaganda on global terrorism while waiting for Donald to hit the nuclear switch. We build our society on fear. Are we f***ed? dangerousfutures.com metamorf.no

ISEA 2018 IN DURBAN Conference 23rd -30th of June 2018 ISEA2018, the 24th International Symposium on Electronic Art, is the first ISEA to be held in the African sub-continent. Hosted in the coastal city of Durban, South Africa, this event will be combined with the 5th iteration of the DUT Digifest in a strategy to build a local legacy. isea-international.org/isea2018

QUITE FRANKLY: IT’S A MONSTER CONFERENCE Conference dates: 18-19 October 2018, UWA, Perth, AU Call for Abstracts: 31 March 2018 2018 marks 200 years since the publication of Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein: or, The Modern Prometheus. Shelley’s “Creature” is usually conceived as a human creation, the stitched- together, tragic victim of scientific and technological experimentation. We rupture these stitches, revealing that the Creature is more than the sum of its parts. We invite you to explore the dynamic ecosystems evolving within and from the gaps between the Creature’s fragments. symbiotica.uwa.edu.au/activities/symposiums/quite-frankly-2018

TTT2018 TABOO - TRANSGRESSION - TRANSCENDENCE IN ART & SCIENCE Conference dates: 11-13 November 2018 Call for papers & presentations: Deadline for proposals: 30 April, 2018 Including theoretical and artwork presentations TTT2018 continues to focus: a) on questions about the nature of the forbidden and about the aesthetics of liminality - as expressed in art that uses or is inspired by technology and science, b) in the opening of spaces for creative transformation in the merging of science and art. avarts.ionio.gr/ttt/2018

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