The following transcript of Dr. Maurice Kelly’s interview on Memories and Music (broadcast February 8, 1981) was created by the Sudbury Public Library as part of a Summer Project in 1982.

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SUDBURY PUBLIC LIBRARY "MEMORIES & MUSIC" INCO METALS CO. LTD. CIGM

ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEWEE: Dr. Maurice Kelly TAPE NO: 125 POSITION ; Doctor TRANSCRIBER: Wendy Mayhew DATE: February 8, 1981 DATE OF TRANS: June 1982 INTERVIEWER: Gary Peck SUMMER CANADA PROJECT THEME: Creighton early 1900s - general store, post office, people, working for Inco, baseball. G.P. Dr. Maurice Kelly is our guest today on "Memories & Music" and Dr. Kelly I noted, noticed earlier that you had indicated that you were born September 9th, 1906 in Creighton mine. Before we examine the history of that community perhaps you could tell us a little bit about yourself. M.K . Well my father bought the store in Creighton in 1905, he and my mother came there from Toronto and I was born in 1906. I was the first of a family of 10. Most, many of whom still live in this area, and I went tb Creighton Mine Public School where I was taught by the well-known Ursala Black and later by Irene McGregor who subsequently became my aunt having married my uncle Jim and I went from, after I finished public school in Creighton, I went to Sudbury High School for two years. But it was a great deal of difficulty getting into, - during the winter, - to the high school and I had to live with friends and relatives in Sudbury. So when I went into my third year of high school I went to St. Michael's College School in Toronto where I took the last three years of high school. Subsequently I entered Medicine at the University of Toronto which was a six year course and then I interned for two years at St. Michael's Hospital in Toronto. From there I went, it was in the Depression times and the only job I could get was working, was contract doctors in Timmins mainly at the Hollinger Mine. The contract doctor for whom I wor ked, also had 3 or 4 other small mine contracts. I worked in Timmins for, t ill 1965 at which time I had an opportunity to come to Sudbury to carryon my speciality of anaesthesia and I worked at the three main hospitals in Sudbury until I retired 3 years ago, after 47 years of medical practice. G.P. And now you're enjoying your, your retirement in Sudbury, I assume. M.K. I'm enjoying it thoroughly. ~~Y 2

G.P. Very much so. If we could back track just a moment you mentioned that you attended elementary school in Creighton Mine. Approximately how many ' students would have been in that school at that time and was it a one room school? M.K. Oh no it was four or five room school. G.P. Four or five rooms. M.K. Yes. G.P. Frame building? M.K. Frame, the original building was frame and it was replaced by a brick building which is still subsequently been t aken down. G.P. The high school in Sudbury what, what type of courses would you have taken at that time? M.K. Well I think, well it was different we had a ••• a, we had a senior matriculation and junior matriculation and • • • First form, Second form, and Third form. They were called forms rather than, well I suppose they're still called forms, but a. The course were very much like the present one. The high school G.P. Fairly standard. M.K. Fairly standard. The high school in my time was the site of the present Sudbury High School but it was only seven rooms. There were seven classrooms and a l ab and then out at the back was the School, which did a very good job. A great number of people in the mining industry got their star t in the Sudbury High School or the Sudbury Mining School. G.P. An ideal location that I would imagine many went to commun­ ities further north in the mining industry. M.K. Oh yes allover. G.P. And across the country as well I suppose. Dr. Kelly I notice you have a number of other certificates on the wall, some of which I assume are not relating to necessarily to your medical career. Could you comment on some of those? M.K. Well the, the first one, of course, is my medical degree certificate. G.P. Right. M.K. And then I got my fellowship in the Royal College of Physicans in Canada for my speciality of anaesthesia and in non-medical things, well partially medical things. I spent 30 years with KELLY 3

the St. John's Ambulance Brigade. G.P. Right. M.K. And as a result I received a, I'm a Commander of the Order of the St. John of Jerusa l em and in a, back in about the 1960's when Pope John was alive I received a, a decoration known as the, ••• I was made a knight of St. Gregory the Great for my educational, religious, and civic endeavours. G.P. Very interesting, I imagine t hat your quite proud of that. M.K. I am indeed. G.P. I would be. Your father you mentioned went to Creighton I believe was it in 1905? M.K. 1905, yes. G.P. Your dad I think had an interesting career even prior to that I understand he was associated with the Hudson Bay Company. M.K. Oh yes, he a, he a came to Sudbury in the middle of the 1890's and he was the, his job was the, at least his work was the, he was the manager of a Hudson's Bay Retail Store and a, down which was down behind where Liberty is now and where the, where the Eaton's Store was first, and the other connection with Sudbury, - my mother who was a legal secre­ tary to a, to Judge Mulligan, J. Mulligan who was a grand­ father of D'Arcy Mulligan who is a lawyer in Sudbury now. G.P. Right. Judge Mulligan being a brother of Dr. W.H. Mulligan. M.K. Yes a brother of Dr. Mulligan, yes. G.P. One of your, well, early pioneer families in the communi ty. M.K. Yes, yes at the same time my dad, of course, in addi tion to having the store at Creighton was the post master at Creighton. G.P. Right. M.K. In which he was assisted by my mother and another post office connection was that my uncle Jerry and his, his wife Mary Kelly were the post master and post mistress in Sudbury at the same time. G.P. That's quite interesting. M.K. Yeah. KELLY

G.P. Your, your parents' names being? M.K. James, James and my mother was Alice. G.P. Alice. M.K. Yes. G.P. All right, I'm sure a number of people interested in postal history will want to, want to hear a little further about that. But first we'll turn back to our musical host. (Music) G.P. Dr. Maurice Kelly is with us today talking about the commu­ nity of Creighton Mine, the comm~nity in which he was born. Dr. Kelly, your dad, you had indicated earlier, established his store in 1905 which would have to make his business one of the early businesses considering the fact that I think Creighton began around 1901. Could you tell us what it was like to, to grow up in, in that kind of environment where your, where your parents had a store and also operated the post office in the community. What was it like for a youngster1 M.K. Well it was a General store and I really mean general, we carried everything and • • • in the stores at the time was very, very little packaged goods. Most things came in bulk and had to be packed, weighed out as they were ordered over the counter. As far as getting supplies in were concerned my father had to go to Sudbury once or twice a week either with horse and, and buggy at first or latterly with a truck, to bring supplies back to the store dealing with oh - National Grocers and D.L. McKinnon's and Canada Packers' and Swifts' and so on. The a, now for example, though our potatoes all came in at one time in the Fall. They mostly came from, from the Valley and they, they would be sent in a boxcar from, from the Valley out to Creighton and we would have to transfer them from, from the boxcar to our cellar. And the, well milk was delivered by, by local farmers to, we didn't carry milk as they, bottle of milk and so on. It was the, the local dairyman. John Ritari was the well-known, one of the well-known milkmen. G.P. Right. M. K. And they, they came to the house each day with fairly bulk milk and the, the interesting, one of the interesting things about supplies was that the Algoma Eastern ran from Sudbury to Little Current everyday and a good deal of stuff came in on there. As far, a good deal of produce conce ~ned, a lot of it came from Manitoulin. We would get vegetables to the store at 5 o'clock in the afternoon that were picked in Manitoulin the first thing in the morning. ~~Y 5

GoP. Is that right. M.K. And a, and a fish, we had beautiful fish from Manitoulin which as a matter of fact the fishing business was so interesting - they had, they had tank cars which used to come from Manitoulin and they went to Toronto and even to New York - live fish in these large tank cars. G.P. These would be special cars on the railway. M.K. Special cars on the railway, yes. G.P. Were these Algoma Eastern? M.K. Algoma Eastern, yes. G.P. Cars that would then be transferred to C.P.R. M.K. Transferred to C.P.R. or, and to Toronto, even some of it went to New York. The a, but the service was good there. G.P. It s ounds like you had the best of two worlds in Creighton at that time. M.K. Yeah, well very many interesting things happened. There was, there was concern at one time about payrolls, payrolls used ( to come in at a, by car with the banking people and the pay­ master and on pay days to Creighton and there was an attempt made to, to, to blow up the, the pay car one time when it was going past Creighton out to Gertrude and O'Donnell which were out to the west. G.P. Right. M.K. And so as a result they took a very interesting precaution in which my father was involved. This was, - it's all right to tell it now - G.P. Right. M.K. But a , the paymaster and the police cover people and so on and the bankers would come in, in the morning. What they didn't know, nobody knew, the night before or the day before the payroll came in an ordinary wrapped parcel to my father, who, who kept it in the post office safe overnight and then he went down to the, the office at the mine in the morning with this paper parcel under his arm which G.P. Very plain. M.K. Contained all the payroll. ~~Y 6

G.P. All the money. What period of time would we be talking about in connection with somethi ng like that? M.K. Oh it could be, could be in the early 20's. G.P. In early 20's. M.K. Yeah. G.P. Dr. Kelly I, I would assume your dad did not have the only store, general store in the community. M.K. Oh no. G.P. For example, there must've been a number of others. M.K. There were other stores and they were, it's very interesting that Mr. Jaworski who is the father of Mike Jaworski who for a long time had the hardware store up in the Donovan. \ G.P. Yes. M.K. Mike Jaworski's father had a store and there was a store, Fera Brothers and Celestine. Now the Feras were a well­ known family and there's still Feras in the area. A matter of fact, Sam Fera's daughter, Mary, was a contemporary of mine at school and she is a, she is the mother was the mother of Dr. D'Aloisio, the kidney specialist. here in Sudbury. Now the Celestine, there was Celestine here too, they're, they're good friends of my family. G.P. Right. M.K. And there was Hannah, Hannahs were a, had a restaurant, between Jaworski's store and, and Hannah's restaurant was the Gaiety Theatre. G.P. The Gaiety Theatre. M.K. Which showed movies one reel at a time and all silent movies of course. But down in the pit was a, someone pounding away on the piano all through the picture and, the, the interest­ ing thing about the old movies when, when they were silent and they had the pianos that if there was the catch on of some kind the, the piano pounding away furiously or if there was a love scene, he played soft music. G.P. A multi-talented individual. M.K. The next, the next door to Hannah's was Mr. Hogan, Jack Hogan's barber shop and a, the a, he was an awfully fine man and his family are still here. His daughter, Dorothy KELLY 7

married Holly Hyland with whom I played baseball for Cliff and his, their son is, is Lynn Hyland who is associated with Gougeon's here. G.P. Yes. M.K. And the, when was a, those were the two main stores. There were three main stores my dad's and the other two, yeah. G.P. Right, there was a laundry. M.K. Wing Lee. G.P. Wing Lee. M.K. Oh yes Wing Lee was a real character. Everybody in town loved Wing and we used to go down to the creek running out of Mud Lake or Little Lake as they called it s ome times. G.P. Mud Lake. M.K. And we caught a lot of suckers and the thing to do was to give the suckers to Wing Lee cause he was such a nice guy. G.P. Some of the churches in the community. M.K. Well there was the, the Roman Catholic Church which was actually in my time, early, early in my years. G.P. Yes. M.K. Was a mission from Copper Cliff and eventually there were a number of priests there. Father Regan, Father Emmet Regan who'd died a few years ago. G.P. Yes. M.K. He was pastor there for some time and then there was the, the United Church. The one person I remember was, was a very fine man and his wife called Hodgins, and they a, there was the Protestant church was a full time, had a full time pastor, but the Huntley residence was built, built for the Catholic church. It was, I think it was, a mission f r om Copper Cliff or subsequent to that or previous to that it had been a mission from the Jesuits here in Sudbury. I know that I was baptised by an old Father Cote who was a Jesuit. G.P. Oh yes.

M.K. And a • • • G.P. He was associated with St. Anne's was he not? ~~Y 8

M.K. Yes, oh yes, sure. G.P. Yes were they the two main churches then? M.K. Yes that's right yes. G.P. A number of halls in the community I would assume. M. K. Well G.P. Some anyhow. M.K. The main hall was the Finn, Finn Hall. G.P. Finn Hall. M.K. Yeah, I was, it was after my time that the community hall was built out there by Inco. But in my time all , all the affairs were carried on, were carried on in the Finnish hall. G.P. When we think of early Sudbury we, we notice that there were a number of hotels in, in Sudbury. I assume Creighton was a, was a dry community as was Copper Cliff. M. K. Absolutely dry yeah. G.P. Both being company communities • • M. K. Both being company communities, no the, there were boarding houses in. G.P. Yes . M.K. A, in Creighton there and - sort of national boarding houses,­ there were, there was a Finn boarding house and a , and an Italian boarding house and so on • .G.P. Is that right. M.K . The baker was a wonderful character named Joe Gonella and I think that one of the peo, one of the young man, young men who worked who worked for Joe Gonella is a, is a , is connected with the , the bakery down across from the Civic Square there. G.P. At a ••• oh the one across from, the one on Brady Street. M. K. Yes on Brady Street. I think there ' s some connection there with Joe Gonella who was the G.P. Golden Grain. KELLY 9

M.K. Golden Grain, yes. G.P. That all of us have stopped at and all right after that commercial plug perhaps we'll take a note, a break and return I noticed you have a list of some of the pioneer families. M.K. Oh yes. G.P. And perhaps we can recount some memories associated with them. " (Music) G.P. Welcome back to the interview portion of "Memories & Music" our guest today is Dr. Maurice Kelly and Dr. Kelly I would imagine having lived in Creighton for as many years as you did, there must be a number of family names, families that you can recall through the years. I know that we run the risk of course of always leaving some out, but pos sibly you could share with us a few of your memories about the early pioneers in the community. M.K . Yes, I, I have that feeling Gary that I hope that I don't leave any families out there, they were all important families. G.P. Certainly. M.K. It was a beautiful community to grow up in and I, I'll pass, I'll talk about some of them. Now there was one family named the Cretzmans and we were close to them because Eddy who died just recently was, worked for my father as did Adolf, another brother, and Freda worked in the post office for my mother. The, excuse me, the another important family were the Brooks family and the Lecks, of course, there were two Lecks families, there were Lecks here in Sudbury now. George Leck was a very venerable character, very big baseball fan for sure though and as was ••• Joe Nichols, Joe always kept score at the baseball games. There are members of his family still in this area. Another family we were very close to were the McDonalds, Angus McDonalds and there were the Mahons, the Mahons were a very fine family. There boys had a terrific war record in the first war and the Hamblys_were, Hambly, Mr. Hambly was a, one of the first managers that I remember at the mine, at the mine and the, the house, the Hambly house is still in Creighton next door to the United Church. It's a beautiful old log house, which I understand is being preserved. G.P. Yes, that is, is that the house that was owned by Jim Smith I believe. M.K . That's right. KELLY 10

G.P. Up until a few years ago. M.K. Yes that's right. G.P. Yes it is one of the more interesting buildings in the community. M.K. And a • • • another family was the Behennas and the Behennas worked too , for my dad and the Furlongs, there are Furlongs in Sudbury too. They a, they had a large, large boarding house and they a, one of the Furlongs worked for my mother in the post office too. Now police-force-wise, early, early in the history of Creighton there was no policemen. Subse­ quently the International provided a police force, but if anything happened back in my recollection, the closest policeman was a man named Herman Vick. G. P. Herman Vick. M.K. Herman Vick, V - i - c - k. He was a provincial policeman, in Copper Cliff and my dad was on a tele, the only telephone outside the company had telephones, but my dad had the only other telephone in the store. It was, it was a party line running all the way from Sudbury to Little Current . I remem­ ber that our ring was 6 rings so someone would come to the store and say that a, that a they wanted a policeman, there ( was trouble, and my dad would say, "I'll phone and we'll get Mr . Vick out in the morning." Well actually there were a lot of problems by the time Mr. Vick got out in the morning, nobody knew anything, what was going on. G.P. Memories failed them at that time. M.K. Memory failed them at that point, yes. But subsequently there were some very fine men, there was Mr. Reedy who was a , a real Irishman and I, I still have, one of my sons has a shillelagh that Bob Reedy brought back from Ireland on a visit and gave i t to my father and the those policemen wer e well a Mr. Lowrey, a father who's son is a Father Lowrey in this area and Dennis Brennan was another one and I remember Dennis Brennan used to threaten his kids with the doctor whereas everybody else threaten their kids with Dennis and they a, they a, in my time , the managers at Creighton, in addition to Mr. Hambly, were Mr. Rolfe and of course Ralph Parker who most of you know about and another man named, a very colorful manager, named Hussey who used to ride around town on a big black horse and he a , there was, there was a very fine pair of men named McLaughlins. They, they came as ball players - the town early or the company early used t o bring in college students to play ball. I, I when I played ball I had to work though. G.P. Was that prior to the 1920's when they would be bringing them in? KELLY 11

M.K. Yeah, yeah around the 1920's. G.P. Right, early 20's. M.K. Well there was Red McLaughlin and Leo. Leo was a , he was a hoistman at Copper, at Creighton for years and years. His wife was a Bernier and she a, until a few years ago was Father Theriault's housekeeper and there was another very fine chap named Charlie Drennan who played ball and the a, I hope I'm not leaving people out, I mentioned Joe Nichols and oh yes, I, I worked in the time office for a while and I'll tell you more about that later. But Mr. Jim Regan was the, was the head man there for a long time, he was the, the father of Father, Father Emmet Regan who died a few years ago and Tom Mulligan and there's Mulligans and Regans throughout the district here now and a, the ••• by golly, I hope I'm not leaving people out. G.P. Well we always run the risk of doing that, of course, when we mention some names but a, I think you've given us, you know, an excellent insight into some of the pioneer families who were in that community. Any ideas to any recollection as to population size or where the, where the majority of the homes would be located? Where they, where they. M.K. Well it was, the town, the company owned most of the houses in t own. G.P. Yes. M.K. And there was, there was a, there was uptown there was, there was the lake district where there was a large number of small homes and then some of the officials' homes were, were down at the end of the street towards what was the tennis courts and so on. G.P. Yes. M.K. And there was some engineers' clubs in that area, too. Then up in another sect ion, up in the "new town" they called it, there were other sort of intermediate homes and then a great series of these small homes also. That was all in uptown and there was a, there was a, a lot of Bulgarian people and lived in what they called the Dardanelles. G.P. The Dardanelles. M.K. Yes down on the way into Creighton and there was a Spanish town where, where there was a good number of Spanish people then. They called it "Spanish town" and a, that was, that was about it as far as the geography was concerned. G.P. Right so there was quite a social mix within the community. KELLY 12

M.K. Quite a cosmopolitan mix all right, true yeah. G.P. Right and t he various groups would conglomerate, would con­ gregate in specific areas. M.K. Oh yes, well. G.P. Generally speaking at the onset anyhow. M.K. There, there was a wonderful community of Finnish people there and there were a great number of Ukrainian people there Polish people , there was a real cosmopolitan group all right. G.P. And you got to know many of them, of course, because of the post office and working in the store. M. K. Oh yeah and because we were youngsters and so on. G. P. You were mentioning earlier that ••• when you were in, when you had, when your dad had the store that you often had to go out and take the orders in the morning. M. K. We all did that, that was the routine in, in that sort of town. G.P. Right . M. K. There were no telephones. G.P. No . M.K. So that early in the morning somebody from the family would go around town , from house to house , taking orders and that , then those orders would then be delivered that same day. G.P. You ' d deliver them at. M. K. That ' s right. G. P. Later on in the day. M. K. Later on in the day, yes. G.F. All right Dr. Kelly, of course, one of the intentions of this program is to try and interview as many people a s possible who've had associations with Int ernational Inco, I think what we ' ll do now is return the program to our musical host. When we come back in a few minutes we'll talk about your experiences with Inco. (Music) KELLY 13

G.P. We've been talking with Dr. Maurice Kelly today about ( Creighton Mine in particular and Dr. Kelly, like so many people in this community, you've had an association with Inco Metals and perhaps you could share some of your remin­ iscences or recollections about working for International Nickel during the 1920's. M.K. Well in order to help me getting, getting along at university I had jobs for 5 summers at Creighton and very interesting jobs they were too. My recollection, my first job I worked for a very fine old gentleman named Pete Flora who was the labor gang boss. I know that I, my first job was for 34 cents an hour f or a 10 hour day and my very first job was helping to unload a case of dynamite, unload a carload of dynamite 44 and 50 percent from a boxcar in which we carried into the magazine, the underground magazine or the magazine on the side of the hill. I, I don't think I was ever so scared in my life at that time as I was at that first job and but I got a good job then the next summer picking rock and a fine old gentlemen named Tony Chirka was the boss there. Now at that time, the rock was picked or at least the was picked by hand and now they have magnetic belts I understand. But I got way up to 41 cents an hour for that job and I worked all summer picking rock. G. P. This was back in the late 20's. M. K. Back in the late 20's or the early 20's and the people who were, besides Mr. Flora and Mr. Chirka, I had some, I had association with Teddy Myhill and Art Husson. Now my second, my third job was working on the cage and, and Mr. Husson, Art Husson was the, the supervisor of things there and that job kept me going for, for two summers in which I had a graveyard job of taking steel down underground. That job was a little bit better, I think I got 45 cents an hour for that one, and then finally I , I spent two summers at t hat, that makes me four summers. Now my fifth summer I was in the, associated with the time office under Mr. Regan and Tom , Mr . Jim Regan and Mr. Tom Mulligan and mo st of that summer I was running, running the office at O'Donnell where the, the ore was a, a was roasted Old timers will remember that they used to fill these huge pits with timber and burn the ore r ight on the, in these ore pits and, and fill the open area with sulphur smoke. My dad used to, when he could, used to drive me up in a truck to O'Donnell but most of the time we didn't get past Pump Lake and I'd have to walk the rest of the way in the sulphur smoke 'cause it was so thick. The a, that was a good job though • • • I got 50 cents an hour and comparatively a machine-runner without bonus under ground only got 65 cents an hour that t i me and a well • • • G. P. So that was very good money for part-time help. KELLY 14

M.K. Very good money, yes. Yes I was telling you Gary that money was , was a relative matter. I know that my dad used to have specials on Saturday night in the store. When you got 9 loaves of bread for a dollar and that that was comparative. G.P. Sure. M.K. All of our prices were comparative and living, of course , was comparative too. G.P. Certainly, I would imagine Dr. Kelly that your summer jobs would be like summer jobs that all of us have had. There was hard work at times but you probably, probably also had an enjoyable, enjoyable time in the summer. I think you mentioned that you had involvement in sports at that parti­ cular period of time. M. K. Yes we, I played baseball. I played baseball for Inco. In, in 1925, we won the Championship under Bert Flynn that wonderful person who did so much for, for sports in this area. G.P. And that was 1925, when you won . M. K. And that was 1925, yes. And then in 19 let' s see 26 and of course I went to university then. I was going to univer­ sity then and in 1926 no 27, 28 and 29 I played football for the, for the University of Toronto Blues, which I enjoyed very much . G.P. Coming back to Creighton some of the teams you would've played against - baseball teams? M.K. Oh well Copper Cliff. G.P. Yes. M.K. Coniston, Sudbury, Capreol, Espanola, Milnet. Those are the ones that I, I think Errington had a team. G.P. Yes. M.K. There's a community out there near Chelmsf'ord. G.P. Now the team that you played for was entirely sponsored by International Nickel. M.K. Well yes I. In the days before, that back around the 20, around 1920. G.P. Yes. M.K . Baseball was a big thing and the various parts of Inco, Copper Cliff, and Creighton especially, used to bring in KELLY 15

college students and, and it was worth their while, too. They, they used to say t hat one of the ball players would go to the time office on payday and pick up all the cheques, well I never had that, I, I they weren't so, we had good fun and everything. G.P. Sure. M.K. But when I played ball for Creighton and for Inco, if there was a ball game in the afternoon, I often had to work grave­ yard to make up for it. G.P. So it was above and beyond your, your shift. M.K. But that was the job and I enjoyed every minute of it. G.P. Certainly. Copper Cliff is very special to you, your wife coming from there and. M.K. Yes my, my wife was, was Rosemary Silvester, her father was Inco's first engineer. He a, he came to, to Sudbury after he graduated from university and came to work as a land surveyor with the firm, Demorest and Stull. G.P. Yes. ( M.K. Those are two old Sudbury names. G.P. Yes. M.K. And a he used to go out to the Canadian Copper Company, a couple of afternoons a week from Demorest and Stull's office to do what engineering that Inco had or the Canadian Copper Company had to do. So finally he was taken on as their first full-time engineer. He left therein 1918 to go to the head office of Inco in Toronto. G.P. Yes. M.K. Where he stayed until 1926 . G.P. A man who had a varied career, and certainly well remembered in the community, I believe. M.K. Oh yes, yeah. I think among other things he, he was the, he formed the Copper Cliff Highlanders, for example. G.P. Is that right. M.K. Yes the Highlanders Band. G. P. Right. KELLY 16

{ M.K. You know. G.P. Well CIGM has an excellent record collection, I thing we'll turn back and hear a few selections from that collection. When we return we'll wrap the program up. M.K. All right. (Music) G.P. Dr. Kelly we seem, we seem to be running out of tape unfor­ tunately we 're nearing the end of the program and I know you have a number of anecdotes that you would like to share with us. However, before we do that - earlier in the pro­ gram you had a listing of a number of the families in the community and I thought I'd give you one last chance to see if you had any names to add, because I know we 're playing with memory and there ' s always a possibility, of course, that names will be left out. Did you have any further names to add? M. K. Well the , yes there are some people who , whom I have run into since I came to Sudbury in the hospitals and the one particular family I remember were the Kozemkos. Now Annie Kozemko was a classmate of mine and her, in my association with the General, for example, I came in contact with her daughter, Helen Digby, in the psychiatric department of the, of the General Hospital. G. P. She was working at the General. M. K. Yes and Gary has asked me to, is there any ancedotes. G. P. Yes . M. K. A sit uation that I had at Creighton. There are a great number of them but I was just t r ying to remember a couple . There was a , there was a machine shop at Creighton and there was a character who used to come into the machine shop covered with dust and dirt and he used to put a air hose inside his overall and then blow the dust out and if you know machine shops , one thing they don' t like when they're working away at fine manufacturing stuff in a machine shop they don' t like dust. So to get , so this fellow came in and so to teach him a lesson somebody put about 4 quarts of dirty old oil in the air hose. So our friend came in and a , and a one of the fellows said, "You go ahead I ' ll turn the hose on for you." So he put the air hose inside his uniform and got about 4 or 5 quarts of dirty oil in there. Another one which was the number 3 shaft which was an inclined shaft with tracks and there was some question of the tracks being uneven so the engineers came in for a couple of days at the end of the week and they lined, lined KELLY 17

up the proper positions for the , for the tracks and in order to do that they drove big spikes into , into the timbers to which the tracks were attached and took up their, their line across the top of the nails and the , the shaft inspector who came on Sunday night , he didn ' t like the look of these nails so he drove them all back into the timbers. G.P. That number 3 shaft is that the one that you mentioned people were brought in to build it. M. K. Oh yeah the Indians came in yes. G. P. Which , which Indians would that be? M. K. Caunawaga . G. P. Caunawaga Indians . M. K. Yes . G. P. And they were , was it the Empire State Build ' ng? M. K. Yes they built the Empire State Building ' s steel. They were G. P. You mentioned that they were also lacrosse players . M. K. Yes they used to play lacrosse every evening and they played r ough too. I G. P. Rough games . M. K. Yes . G. P. Played amongst themselves . M.K . Amongst themselves. G. P. Yes . M. K. They didn ' t play. G. P. No. M. K. With any local teams at all. Another little story about the community was that when you came in, you could come in to Creighton in the summer time either past the, past the Catholic church and the police station or there was a back hill called the summer hill up past the Dardanelles . G.P. Right. M. K. And it was fine in the summer time but in the winter time the water from the overflow from the water tank ran down KELLY 18

( over this hill and it had a very inclined, deeply inclined skating rink and, - crazy kids , - we used to go down this hill on our skates, I don ' t know why ••• G.P. It was quite a steep hill. M.K . Oh yes. Oh I don ' t know why we all weren't killed. G.P. No. M.K. Yeah . G.P. Dr. Kelly I would, you certainly appear to have very fond memories of growing up in community, in Creighton rather and Creighton appears to be the kind of community that certainly had much to offer for an individual. Can you comment on the kind of influence growing up in a smaller community had on you later in life? I assume there were close family ties, close ties with the community itself. M. K• . Yes well it was an average community. They , everybody in town was working and the , we had a , the company had provided rinks in the winter time and the , there was a tennis court, there was a ball park and lots of , we didn ' t have to go far to swim at Pump Lake or at Little Lake and the , we could go out in the woods and , and although I wasn't much of a hunter, ( we used to spend a good deal of time out in the woods. G.P. Sure. So in closing an excellent community to have grown up in. M.K. A good place to have grown up. G.P. Very fond memories. M.K. That's right, yes. G.P. Good. Thank you Dr. Kelly for being with us today on this episode of "r1emories & Music." Since I've known you, I've found you always to be one who is willing and eager to talk local history. In fact I think I first met you through the Sudbury and District Historical Society. Today you've helped us in a major way to aid in our understanding of the past.

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