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# University of California Berkeley Regional Oral History Office University of California The Bancroft Library Berkeley, California Francis Heisler and Friedy B. Heisler CIVIL LIBERTIES, MENTAL HEALTH, AND THE PURSUIT OF PEACE With Introductions by Julius Lucius Echeles Emma K. Albano Carl Tjerandsen An Interview Conducted by Suzanne B. Riess 1981-1983 Copyright 1983 by The Regents of the University of California ("a) All uses of this manuscript are covered by a legal agreement between the University of California and Francis Heisler and Friedy B. Heisler dated January 6, 1983. The manuscript is thereby made available for research purposes. All literary rights in the manuscript, including the right to publish, are reserved to The Bancroft Library of the University of California, Berkeley. No part of the manuscript may be quoted for publication without the written permission of the Director of The Bancroft Library of the University of California at Berkeley. Requests for permission to quote for publication should be addressed to the Regional Oral History Office, 486 Library, and should include identification of the specific passages to be quoted, anticipated use of the passages, and identification of the user. The legal agreement with Francis Heisler and Friedy B. Heisler requires that they be notified of the request and allowed thirty days in which to respond. It is recommended that this oral history be cited as follows: Francis Heisler and Friedy B. Heisler, "Civil Liberties, Mental Health, and the Pursuit of Peace," an oral history conducted 1981-1983 by Suzanne B. Riess, Regional Oral History Office, The Bancroft Library, University of California, Berkeley, 1983. Copy No. FRIEDY AND FRANCIS HEISLER Peace Vigil, Monterey, 1982 TABLE OF CONTENTS Francis and Friedy Heisler INTRODUCTIONS Julius Lucius Echeles i Emma K. Albano vi Carl Tjerandsen xii NOTES xiv INTERVIEW HISTORY - I HUNGARY HEISLER FAMILY 1 Family ]_ Grandfather ]_ Parents 4 On the Soapbox 7 Schools 9 Mother IQ Growing Up n Dividing the Estates n To Be An Engineer 12 Socialist Party 13 Teachers and Poets 14 Hungary, Then and Now 16 II WORLD WAR ONE 20 Mobilization Days 20 Political Outlook During the War 22 Experiences Behind Russian Lines 24 Vegetables 24 The Trenches 26 Italian Capture 28 Thoughts on War 31 III ZURICH 35 Before and After the War 35 The Socialist Party, and Lenin 37 Cafes, Artists 39 Francis and Friedy Meet 41 IV FRIEDY BAUMANN 44 Family 46 Studies 48 Sensitivity to People 53 Marriage 55 V FROM BERLIN TO CHICAGO 57 Factory Strike 58 Plans to Leave, Visa 60 Berlin, 1924 Inflation, Corruption 63 Job Hunting in New York and Chicago 71 Automatic Electric Company 73 Friedy s Reactions to Chicago 77 Enrolling in Medical School 80 West Coast Analysts 86 VI LENIN, RUSSIA, AND TROTSKY 90 VII CHICAGO LIFE BEGINS 102 Rozsika Schwimmer, and the Pacifists 102 Finding a Place to Live 104 Making Friends, Hull House 107 Emigrant Mistreatment, Emigrant Factions 111 Forums and Issues 114 The Communist Party 117 Georgia Lloyd 120 Socialists, Communists, and the New Deal 123 Study Classes for Labor Leaders 125 Chicago Psychoanalysts 128 Chicago Writers; The Chicago an 131 Saul Alinsky 136 Union Organizing 138 VIII THE AMERICAN CIVIL LIBERTIES UNION 141 Chicago, A Split 141 The San Francisco Board 143 The Terminiello Case 145 Lonely Opposition to World War II 150 Ira Latimer and Thomas E. Latimer 153 The Supreme Court and the Larry Gara Case 155 The Chicago Board, Clarence Darrow and a Phone Call 157 Roger Baldwin 160 The Jehovah s Witnesses 161 IX SOME PEOPLE, EVENTS, THOUGHTS 163 Insull Utilities 163 A Greedy Lawyer 165 American Commonwealth Party 169 Insull Stocks, 1931 170 Frank Lloyd Wright 172 What is a Conscientious Objector? 177 X THE CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR CASES 180 Working with the Courts 186 The "Typical" Case 190 The Family s Role 192 The Issue Since World War II 196 Corbett Bishop 197 A Struggle with Similarities 203 XI LABOR LAW 206 Early Involvement 206 Citizenship 206 John Marshall Law School 207 Teaching 209 Cases 212 Waste Handlers Union 212 Lunch at O Connell s 214 Hit Man and Protector 218 An Attempt on Lawyer Heisler s Life 221 The Chicago Office 223 The Wagner Act 225 The Communist Party, and the Unions 228 In Court Against Hallinan 229 The Unions Now 230 XII ISSUES OF THE 1950s 232 Emergency Civil Liberties 232 Conscience and Constitution 234 Eternal Vigilance 236 Back to Early Influences 241 Circle of Galileo 241 A Book: The Brook Kerith 243 The Quakers, and Other Pacifist Thinkers 245 Individuals, Friends 248 A Conclusion 251 XIII FRIEDY HEISLER WIFE, TEACHER, HEALER, MOTHER 254 Pigs, Chickens, Hired Hands 254 Education of a Peacemaker and a Psychiatrist 257 Developing Classes in Mental Health for Teachers 261 Helping an Emotionally Disturbed Population 264 The Women s Movement 273 Ivan Heisler s Career, and a Last Word 276 TAPE GUIDE 279 APPENDICES 280 INDEX 285 DONORS TO THE HEISLER ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Ansel and Virginia Adams Carmel, California Emma Albano and Joseph F. Albano La Jolla, California Dorothy B. Atkinson Monterey, California Joan E. Baez Menlo Park, California Evelyn K. Carstens Pebble Beach, California Amy Bond Cole San Francisco, California Janice B. Criley and Richard L. Criley Carmel, California MariAntonia and Robert Dudley Carmel, California Francis B. Duveneck, Jr. and Elizabeth Duveneck Monterey, California Phyllis E. Dyer Carmel, California Julius L. Echeles Chicago, Illinois Walter T. Fisher Chicago, Illinois Harry and Natalie Fleischman Wantagh, New York Rosemary Garrison Carmel, California Claire T. Gray Fairhope, Alabama Alvin E. Heaps New York, New York Elisabeth, Karen and Karl Heisler Berkeley, California Doris Tullar Heller and Ben I. Heller Carmel, California Julius and Ruth Heuscher Los Gatos, California Ethel M. Huffman Albuquerque, New Mexico Diane S. and Dr. Hisashi Kajikuri Monterey, California Marion Knoblauch-Franc Chicago, Illinois Dr. and Mrs. Samson B. Knoll Carmel, California Sandra G. Levy and Leonard Levy Los Angeles, California Georgia Lloyd Glencoe, Illinois William B. Lloyd and Mary Norris Lloyd Winnetka, Illinois Frank and Rella Lossy Berkeley, California Albert Lukavich Monterey, California Michael and Rose Mann Garden City, New York Dr. and Mrs. Arnold Manor Carmel, California Rev. Howard Mat son and Rosemary Mat son Carmel Valley, California Rosario Mazzeo and Katie Clare Mazzeo Carmel, California Morris and Lorna Milgram Philadelphia, Pennsylvania John Boit Morse and Virgina S. Morse Carmel, California Leon and Sylvia Panetta Carmel Valley, California Norbert V. Pietras and Mildred T. Pietras Colorado Springs, Colorado Louise J. and Norman Reider San Francisco, Illinois Retail, Wholesale, and Department Store Union New York, New York Harriet Sprowl Shanner Carmel, California Justin Simon, MD Berkeley, California Lola S. Steinbaum, MD Monterey, California Emmy Sylvester, MD Mill Valley, California Harry and Florence Stern Winnetka, Illinois Charles A. Stewart Carmel, California Carl and Myrtle Tjerandsen Santa Cruz, California Elizabeth W. Trahan Monterey, California W. Arlene Turi La Quinta, California Marianne H. Von Eckardt, MD New York, New York Rowland and Fay Watts Pleasantville, New York INTRODUCTION Julius Lucius Echeles My Paean to Francis Heisler Coming off four years with the navy in war time experience, I was not quite prepared to meet the other-worldly person Francis Heisler was when I applied to him for a job in July, 1946. Learning of my total lack of academic or experiential qualifications, he was quixotic enough to hire me for $25 a week, with hours from 8 a.m. to never-quitting time six, sometimes seven days a week. The law may be a jealous mistress, but Francis was a benevolent master. However, the wealth I gained in learning from him and the richness of association were recompense enough beyond mere pelf. He contrasted my richly beginnings with his own start in practice in the of depression depth the early 1930s: "After all," he said, "in my first month of law, I had a $5 case and two little ones." Thus was my introduction to this warm, urbane, yet very earthy presence, whose fey sense of humor is best exemplified by an incident during the time I was weaning away from his labor-law practice and into my own developing specialty of criminal law. In the 1940s, Francis occupied the back corner suite of the 13th floor at 77 West Washington Street, Chicago the site of the renowned Chicago (Methodist) Temple Building with its soaring spire and illuminated cross, which then could be seen at night for miles around. The church s minister, the widely known Rev. Charles Ray Goff, lived in the steeple apartment, known as the Church- in-the- Sky. Once, while riding the elevator together, Francis introduced me to the Reverend as a just- returned navy veteran. Ever wanting to be helpful to his country s saviours, Rev. Goff asked if there was anything he could do for me. Francis answered, "Well, this young man is starting a criminal practice, but isn t well-known. It would help him if you put a sign under the cross: Jesus saves; if he can t, Echeles will. Room 1323. " This seemingly slight irreverence was not even considered such by the Rev. Goff, for he repeated the episode around. And although Francis interests were more secular than religious, his fierce and deep devotion to his fellow man and his dedication to use the law aggressively both to right and prevent the wrongs endemic in the land, indelibly stamp him as one with the Saints. Now, any lawyer-cross examiner of a witness stresses the lapse of time which dims recollection; so also in conjuring memories of impressions and incidents of thirty- five years ago.