CERTIFICATION
The Minutes of Proceedings which appear in the following book have been established by the Clerk of Parliament and have been amended and confirmed by Parliament in accordance with the provisions of Article 18 of the Standing Orders of Parliament.
Lino Bulekuli (lit SACSAC Speaker of Parliament Clerk of Parliament PARLIAMENT OF THE PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIC OF VANUATU REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
FOURTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
ABBIL, Hon. Iolu Johnson Member for Tanna BANGABITI, Hon. Amos Member for Ambae BATICK, Hon. Romain Member for Malekula BLAISE, Hon. Batick Member for Ambrym BOULEKONE, Hon. Vincent Member for Pentecost BUE, Hon. Samson Member for Ambae BULE, Hon. Allen Member for Pentecost BULEWU, Hon. Job Member for Pentecost CALO, Hon. Joseph Member for Tongoa/Shepherds CARLOT, Hon. Louis Member for Efate CARLOT, Hon. Maxime Member for Port Vila CHILIA, Hon. Jimmy Meto Member for Efate FARATLA, Hon. Thomas Brothy Member for Port Vila HOPA, Hon. Jack Tungon Member for Ambrym HOPMAN, Hon. Alick Allan Member for Port Vila IOUIOU, Hon. Henry Member for Tanna JERETY, Hon. Rasen Member for Malekula JIMMY, Hon. Willie Member for Port Vila KALPOKAS, Hon. Donald Member for Efate KARIE, Hon. Robert David Member for Tongoa/Shepherds LAHVA, Hon. Jeffrey Member for Tanna LANGO, Hon. Demis Member for Paama LINI, Hon. Walter Hadye Member for Pentecost LINI, Hon. Hilda Member for Port Vila LOP, Hon. Kissel Member for Tanna LULUM, Hon. Dereck Vanua Member for Banks/Torres MASENG, Hon. Alfred Member for Luganville MOLISA, Hon. Sela Member for Santo/Malo/Aore NAKO, CHARLIE Member for Tanna NATAPEI, Hon. Edward Nipake Member for Other Southern Islands RAVUTIA, Hon. Albert Pisuvoke Member for Santo/Malo/Aore REGENVANU, Hon. Sethy John Member for Malekula SAMUEL, Hon. Elson Member for Malekula SIMON, Hon. Jimmy Member for Epi SINKER, Hon. Cecil Member for Banks/Torres
ii SOKSOK, Hon, Vital Member for Malekula SONG, Hon. Keasipai Member for Tanna SOPE, Hon. Barak Tame Member for Efate STEVEN, Hon. Franky Member for Santo/Malo/Aore TAHI, Hon. Onneyn Member for Ambae TAMATA, Hon. James Adin Member for Maexvo TAMBISARI, Hon. Edward Member for Luganville TELUKLUK, Hon. Barthelemie Paul Member for Malekula VOHOR, Hon. Serge Member for Santo/Malo/Aore VUROBARAVU, Hon. Molieno Member for Santo/Malo/Aore WELES, Hon. Timothy Member for Santo/Malo/Aore PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
FIFTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
FIRST ORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
MONDAY, 27 MARCH 1995
SPEAKER : The Hon, Alfred MASENG, Member for Luganville
PRESENT :
ABSENT :
1 The sitting commenced at 8.35 a.m.
2. The Speaker declared that a quorum was present and the sitting was legally constituted pursuant to Article 24 of the Constitution.
3. The sitting was suspended from 8.40 a.m. to 9.10 a.m.
4. Hon. Onnehyn TAHI, Member for Ambae, said the prayer.
PRESIDENTIAL ADDRESS
5. Prior to his address, His Excellency President Jean-Marie Leye Lenelghau, requested a one minute silence in remembrance of the late former Head of State, Chief and Pastor Fred Kalomuana Timakata. He then presented his speech. (Text appended)
6. The sitting was suspended at 9.55 a.m and resumed at 10.30 a.m.
7 The Speaker asked the Prime Minister to respond to the Presidential address
8. In his reply to the President’s speech, Prime Minister Maxime Carlot KORMAN, confirmed the fact that many Members of Parliament never toured their constituencies despite the fact that the budget provided for such tours. He expressed gratitude to the diplomatic missions within and outside Vanuatu for their help to the country and stated that it was government policy to increase the number of Diplomatic Missions in Vanuatu. In pointing out the significance of
1 the individual’s fundamental rights, he called on electoral officers to carry out their work more efficiently, so as to ensure that everyone who had the right to vote could do so. He assured the House that the government would consider drafting a law providing for the Ombudsman’s powers and duties. With reference to the cyclone damaged State House, he mentioned that the request to diplomatic Missions to fund the reconstruction of the building had not met with success and that the Government itself would look into the matter. He pointed out that it was the role of the Government and not the President to select those who should be awarded medals. He indicated that the 4 % turnover tax was reasonable and that small businesses whose turnover amounted to one to four million vatu would not be affected. With regard to price control, he called on the responsible body to ensure overall fairness in the pricing of goods. He pointed out concerning the Investment code that the Minister of Finance would look into the matter. He was thankful for the European Community’s assistance in funding the renovation of the schools and that twelve schools were currently being repaired. He pointed out with reference to hospitals that the government had plans to renovate all hospitals and not solely those of Lamap and Whitesands. Regarding the Forestry Agreement with New Zealand, he assured the House that his government would ensure that its conditions were complied with. Concerning expatriates in the country, he pointed out that they would never have access to land in Vanuatu. He stressed the importance of ensuring that citizenship was granted to those who truly deserved it and mentioned the government’s intention to amend the citizenship law so as to enable it to withdraw this privilege if necessary. As for liquor sales on weekends, the Prime Minister pointed out that it was up to individuals to control their liquor consumption. Over-regulation in this area would kill off entrepreneurial spirit. He concluded by emphasising the significance of the Presidential address and expressing regret that the State office had refused to supply a copy of the speech in advance at his request for the purposes of preparing his reply.
9 The Speaker called upon the Leader of the Opposition to reply to the Presidential address.
10. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition and Member for Efate, in his reply, pointed out the significance of the government’s duty to serve the people. He then expressed regret at the fact that certain MP’s had used their MP allocation to buy votes and added that Members of the Opposition did not have the same privilege to serve their people. He pointed out that all Diplomatic Missions deserved respect from the government. He called on the Electoral Office to carry out their work efficiently so as to ensure that all who had the right to vote would be able to. He reminded the House of individuals’ rights under the Constitution and the duty of legislators to ensure that these were preserved accordingly. He s tressed that the executive body should not i nterfere with t he judiciary and legislature. He also stressed that the Ombudsman should be independent and impartial at all levels. With regard to the Leadership Code, he felt that this was required, as the conduct of many of the nation’s leaders had been
2 brought into question and such a code would ensure proper conduct. As for the question of State House, he stated that it was high time it was rebuilt as the President had been on temporary accommodation for three Presidential terms. He pointed out that medals should be awarded solely on the grounds of merit or they would be meaningless. He expressed concern that Vanuatu might become too costly a destination for tourists, due to the increasingly high cost of living. He urged the government to urgently look into maintaining the schools and providing them with staff so as to ensure fair opportunities in education throughout the country. He emphasised with regard to health that prevention was better than cure, although it was still important to maintain curative facilities. He concluded by stating that no land should be transferred without consulting the people concerned, as there were strong cultural ties with the land in Vanuatu.
11. The Speaker expressed sympathy to the late Pastor Chief Fred Timakata’s family.
12. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN proposed a resolution expressing Parliament’s sympathies following the death of Fred Timakata. (Text appended)
13. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, seconded the resolution.
14. The motion was approved unanimously.
15. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN proposed a second resolution to suspend the sitting until 2 p.m.
16. The motion was approved with 40 votes in favour and 6 abstentions.
17. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for P entecost, moved that the sitting be suspended until the next morning.
18. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN moved that an amendment be made to Resolution II by replacing “2 p.m” with the words “until tomorrow morning”.
19. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, seconded the motion.
20. The motion was approved unanimously.
21. The sitting was adjourned at 11.30 a.m.
3 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
FIFTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
FIRST ORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
TUESDAY, 28 MARCH 1995
SPEAKER : The Hon. Alfred MASENG, Member for Luganville
PRESENT :
ABSENT :
1. The sitting commenced at 8.25 a.m.
2. Hon. Elison SAMUEL, Member for Malckula, said the prayer.
3. The Leader of Government Business and Member of Santo Rural, Hon. Frankie STEVENS, read the order of Bills to be tabled in Parliament.
BILL FOR THE AGREEMENT ON ECONOMIC AND TECHNICAL CO OPERATION BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU AND THE GOVERNMETN OF THE PEOPLE’S REPUBLIC OF CHINA (RATIFICATION) ACT NO. OF 1995
FIRST READING
4. Hon. Roman BATIK, Member for Malekula and Minister of Education, introduced the Bill, explained its purposes and moved that it be read a first time.
5. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, requested clarification as to why an amount was required in addition to that which had already been approved.
4 6. Hon. Minister BATIK explained that the Law Faculty Project cost about Vt 600 million whereas the initial loan agreement only provided Vt 370 million.
7. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know why the Bill had been presented by the Minister of Education and the Minister of Finance.
8 . Hon. Willie JIMMY, Minister of Finance, pointed out that the loan was for the purpose of financing an educational project.
9. Hon. Onnehyn TAHI, Member for Ambae, expressed support for the Bill, stressing that another Pacific country may take over the project if Vanuatu did not act quickly enough. He added that the project would mean cheaper legal training for Vanuatu students.
10. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo Rural, expressed gratitude to the Chinese Government for their assistance despite their similar status to Vanuatu as a developing c ountry. H e added that this project would provide opportunities to train more Vanuatu students in law.
11. Hon. W alter LINI, M ember f or P entecost, d eclared NUP’s s upport f or the B ill and commended the Chinese Government for their trust and commitment towards Vanuatu.
12. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, expressed support for the Bill and thanked t he G ovemment o f t he P eoples R epublic o f C hina for t heir a ssistance. He wondered why there had been a change of attitude towards China, considering the UMP had campaigned on an anti Communist platform.
13. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, supported the Bill and thanked the Chinese Government for granting such a loan to Vanuatu, which almost amounted to the same as the initial loan.
14. Hon. Prime Minister Maxime KORMAN, expressed surprise at the contradictory remarks from the Opposition. He stated that to thank China and call it Communist at the same time was a mockery to the People’s Republic of China. He admitted UMP’S anti communist policy, but pointed out that the present Government was a Coalition Government and therefore had to compromise with its partner and furthermore, China was becoming more a democratic country. He declared that if ever the Government decided to cut ties with Communist countries, it would do so with Cuba and Libya etc, with whom previous Governments had forged ties. He thanked the customary landowners of Erakor with whom c ompensation should be discussed, as w ell as the Government, the Education Minister and the Chinese Ambassador for their contributions towards the achievement of this agreement.
5 15. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Member for Malekula and Minister of Justice, expressed support for the Bill and emphasised that the Law Unit was a regional faculty and that the project should have been funded by USP who were, however, unable to. He stated that Vanuatu was third after Fiji and Samoa to have a USP Faculty and this showed great c ommitment to regional c ooperation in t ernis of political, social and economic development. He cited other examples of Vanuatu- China cooperation.
16. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, raised a point of order, questioning whether Hon. Minister REGANVANU was speaking on the principles of the Bill or whether he was making a propaganda campaign on China’s behalf.
17. Hon. Minister REGANVANU pointed out that China had made a significant contribution to Vanuatu.
18. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was approved unanimously.
COMMITTEE STAGE
Section 1, “Ratification”
19. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know why the specified amount in Article 1 had not also been stated in Vatu and how much one tenth of the loan actually amounted to.
20. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, explained that on Renminbi Yuan was the equivalent of Vt 15 to Vt 16, which meant that the amount to be paid per year would be Vt 25 million.
21. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, repeated her question as to why the equivalent had not been given in Vatu.
22. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that the loan was granted by China; therefore the amount was stated in Chinese currency. Furthermore, unlike the Vatu, the Renminbi Yuan was recognised internationally.
23. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, added that because the money was borrowed i n Chinese currency, the amount h ad t o b e s tated in that currency in accordance with normal international procedure.
24. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, expressed concern over the possibility that i n the 1 ong run, repayments would exceed the original amount o f the 1 oan calculated at Vt 225 million.
6 25. Hon. Willie JIMMY, Minister of Finance, stated that it was an interest-free loan, but the total amount of repayments may be affected by fluctuations of the local currency-the Vatu and the Chinese Renminbi Yuan.
26. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, maintained that the equivalent amount of the loan in Vatu should be inserted in the Agreement.
27. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN emphasised that his Government would sign the Agreement in its present form and he could not see the importance of converting the amount of the loan in Vatu and inserting it into the Agreement.
28. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE wondered if the equivalent amount of the loan in Vatu could be included in the Bill itself and not in the Agreement.
29. Hon. Willie JIMMY, Minister of Finance, stressed that it was not possible and there had never been a case in the past where the equivalent amount in Vatu was inserted. He added that since the loan had not yet been released, the amount should not be converted, had not yet been released, the amount should not be converted, as the value may have changed by then through currency fluctuations.
30. Section 1 was approved unanimously.
31. Section 2, “Commencement” was approved unanimously.
SECOND READING
32. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, moved that the Bill be read a second time and do pass.
33. The motion that the Bill be read a second time and do pass was carried unanimously.
34. The sitting was suspended at 9.45 a.m and resumed at 10.25 a.m.
BILL FOR THE LAND LEASES (AMENDMENT) ACT NO. OF 1995
FIRST READING
35. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, introduced the Bill and moved that it be read a first time.
36. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of Opposition, referring to the explanatory note, stressed that the issue of land was not that simple but was the basis of politic in Vanuatu. He felt that land laws adopted by the existing Government deprived the customary landowners of rights, which were safeguarded by the Constitution. He pointed out that it was easy to deprive others of the rights when one was not
7 affected oneself. He felt that historical developments had also contributed to such deprivations and these new laws involved a certain amount of discrimination.
37. Hon. Iolu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, said he had expected that amendment which was a good Bill for lawmakers but not for customary landowners. He felt the Minister had not explained how the Bill affected newly declared urban zones and that people were concerned about its application throughout Vanuatu.
38. Hon. W illie JIMMY, M inister o f F inance, s aid that h e h ad b een 1 istening w ith interest to the Opposition’s comments in relation to the deprivation of customary landowners’ rights, as it had been the former Government, which had declared Port Vila and Luganville public land through Order 16 of 1982. He said the existing Government had only compensated customary landowners who had already lost their land because they were situated in those areas according to Article 81 of the Constitution. He felt that some MPs misinterpreted laws.
39. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN accepted the fact that the land issue had been and would remain the basis for national politics, but stated that the new law would only apply to particular titleholders in Port Vila and Luganville. He said MPs would have to declare their interests. He added that most members of the Opposition had taken part in the signing of the Constitution and that the Government had not deprived customary landowners of their rights, but proved that it cared for them. He said foreigners and potential investors familiarised themselves with Vanuatu laws before coming to the country. He emphasised that all laws had to be revised in order to cover all categories of land leases and so as not to declare a whole municipality public land.
40. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, spoke against the Bill as it contradicted the spirit of the Land Leases Act and contained an element of discrimination, as some Ni-Vanuatu could acquire land in Port Vila and Luganville, but those from Efate and Santo could not do so on other islands. He said the Constitution provided for acquisition of land whereas this Bill provided for reacquisition of land.
41. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN emphasised that the Government had had no choice but to c ompensate customary landowners, although he a dmitted that the commercial value of Port Vila real estate was very high and the country did not have the financial means to compensate customary landowners fully, but that the Government had negotiated in the Melanesian way, so as to keep the nation together.
42. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m and resumed at 2.10 p.m.
43. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN stated that the principles of the Bill were in accordance with the Constitution and in line with the idea that the land belonged to indigenous customary owners and that it remained their property. He remarked
8 that the Government could own land provided that the rightful customary owners were compensated. He said that his Government’s intention was to divide public land into two categories, namely lease hold land and freehold land and confirmed that the latter would not affect investment. He pointed out that the Government could acquire land in other parts of Vanuatu provided that negotiations with indigenous customary landowners had been held beforehand. He concluded by reassuring the House that his Government’s land policies were not in breach of the Constitution.
44, Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, stated that the freehold land system was contrary to the basic principles of the Constitution and said his Government had done its best to educate the people that land belonged to customary owners and could not be acquired under freehold titles. NUP would therefore vote against the Bill. He felt that the Bill would declare public lands in Vila and Luganville freehold land, which was unconstitutional. He pointed out that the former Government had set up two urban land corporations, but they were shut down due to mismanagement and their responsibilities of collecting land fees were transferred to a newly established Lands Department. He was disappointed that there had never been any Bill in Parliament regarding compensations required by the Constitution. He stressed that should the Government wish to introduce a freehold system, the Constitution would have to be amended beforehand,. He felt that Government did not represent the interest of the indigenous customary landowners and suspected that the compensation moneys paid out to customary landowners of Vila and Luganville were in fact from the trust funds kept by the Government for the customary landowners. He also stated that there was no proof that negotiations with customary landowners had been held. He agreed that lands in Vila and Luganville had been declared public land, but were held under leasehold titles. He concluded that the Bill would change the system, leading to conflicts and less support for the Government.
45. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo Rural, pointed out that according to the provisions of the Freehold Titles Act No. 1 of 1994, the following lands could be acquired under freehold titles. Land obtained under the Land Acquisition Act No.5 of 1992, land owned by indigenous customary owners and lands acquired by the Government. He opposed the principles of the Bill because they were unconstitutional.
46, Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, declared that according to the former Government’s land policies, indigenous customary owners remained the sole proprietors of land in Vanuatu, even if they were under leasehold titles. He said that there were still constant negotiations with customary landowners for compensation, even though Port Vila and Luganville had been declared public land.
47. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, declared that whatever the duration of a lease title, lessees should not own land but only rent it as reflected in Vanuatu
9 custom. She said that land represented a spiritual link between the living and their ancestors, but the freehold title system would rob the customary landowners of their rights. She pointed out the fact that the delay in implementing the Act reflected the confused state the UMP-led Government was in. She said that recently people claiming ownership of land in Port Vila had approached her. She added that land disputes still exist in Port Vila and the Government had been facing difficulties in defending leaseholders in Port Vila. She warned that a poor land tenure system may lead to conflicts amongst indigenous people. She concluded by asking whether all lease titleholders must revert to freehold titles or only those who wished to do so.
48. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, replied that it was up to each individual to decide whether or not to change his leasehold title to freehold. He said that the Bill was in accordance with the principles of the Constitution and the UMP-led Government was merely resolving land disputes overlooked by the former Government. He declared that the proposed urban zones to be created by the Government would be under leasehold titles and 70% of the land rent would be paid to the customary landowners, 20% to the Provincial Government concerned and the remaining 10% to the national Government.
49. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN confirmed that the Bill would enable Ni-Vanuatu to own land. He also stated that the UMP Government was trying to remedy land disputes. He questioned the measures taken by the former Government to solve the land disputes when the land rights demonstration was organised by the people of Efate in 1988. He aid that the Opposition’s comments were an insult to the true customary landowners of Efate. He pointed out that according to the provisions of the Constitution, Parliament had the power to legislate in respect of special categories of land, he said that the colonial Governments acquired land under freehold titles but the VP-led Government later converted these to leasehold. He added that his Government had compensated every individual who claimed ownership of lands in Port Vila and Luganville and Vt 300 million had been paid out by his Government as compared to the proposed Vt 50 million by the VP- led Government. He declared that land rent paid by leaseholders would be paid into national revenue. He concluded by warning the Opposition leaders that their rejection of the principles of the Bill would lead to their political downfall.
50. Hon. Willie JEMMY, Minister of Finance, expressed his support for the principles of the Bill. He claimed that the VP Government leasehold system was a form of indirect and wilful robbery of land rents due to customary owners. He wondered about the status of the land once leases expired and customary owners were wishing to reclaim the land unable to compensate lessees for their improvements. He thought that the Opposition members were making a mockery of the land issue in connection with the villagers of Erakor, Pango, Ifira and Mele. He said the land leases Act was still in force and so was leasehold tenure and that the Opposition could not prove the contrary. He felt that the comments from the
10 Opposition members showed that they did not understand the system, he said they were hypocrites.
51. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was carried with 24 votes in favour and 20 against.
52. The sitting was suspended at 3.35 p.m and resumed at 4.10 p.m
WRITTEN MOTIONS
53. The Speaker declared that there was no written motion in order and therefore adjourned the sitting at 4.10 p.m.
11 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
FIFTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
FIRST ORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
WEDNESDAY 29 MARCH 1995
SPEAKER : The Hon. Alfred MASENG, Member for Luganville
PRESENT :
ABSENT :
I. The sitting commenced at 2.10 p.m.
2 Hon. Louis CARLOT, Member for Efate Rural, said the prayer.
3 Hon. Speaker MASENG read the agenda.
BILL FOR THE LAND LEASES (AMENDMENT) ACT NO. OF 1995 COMMITTEE STAGE
4. Section 1, “Amendment of the long title to Chapter 163”. was approved on division.
Section 2, “Amendment of section 1 ”
5. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, wanted to know the effects on a freehold title of the repeal of the ministerial order which established public land.
6. Hon. Willie JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that only other laws could change laws.
12 7. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, repeated his question, as he felt that the reply was not appropriate.
8. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, emphasised that this law enabled the law on freehold title to be enforced.
9. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, disagreed with the answer and said that the public land concerned in Port Vila and Luganville had been declared as such only through a Ministerial Order which could be repealed at any time by the Minister of Lands, thereby rendering freehold laws null and void.
10. Hon. Prime Minister KORMAN expressed his support for Hon. Minister JIMMY’s comment.
11. Hon. Sela MOLIS A, Member for Santo Rural, e xpressed the same concerns a s Hon. SOPE.
12. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, stressed that repealing the order would not affect the new laws.
13. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, supported Hon. Minister REGANVANU saying that the Freehold Title Act and this Bill would not be affected if the Order were repealed.
14. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, emphasised that there was insufficient legal basis for freehold tenure.
15. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, expressed the same idea as Hon. Minister JIMMY.
16. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, repeated his questions.
17. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, felt that the members of the Opposition was wasting time, and seconded by Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT, moved that the question be put.
18. The motion that the question be put was approved by 24 votes in favour and 20 against.
19. Section 2 was approved on division.
20. Section 3, “Amendment of section 2” was approved on division,
21. Section 4, “Amendment of section 4” was approved on division.
22. Section 5, “Amendment of section 8” was approved on division.
13 23. Section 6, “Insertion of new section 12A” was approved on division.
24 Section 7, “Amendment of section 13” was approved on division.
Section 8, “Amendment of section 14”
25. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, asked for an explanation of the terms “liabilities and incidents of that freehold estate.”
26. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, explained that these referred to the actual costs.
27. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, asked whether lending organisations would accept mortgages on freehold titles, as banks, being corporate bodies could not possess freehold land under the Act.
28. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, answered that the banks would accept mortgages.
29. Section 8 was approved on division.
Section 9, “Amendment of section 17”
30. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, asked how an individual could acquire his freehold title from the government within an area of public land.
31. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, answered that it was possible and commented that the Opposition were beginning to realise their error.
32. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, asked whether freehold titleholders would have any security,
33. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, replied that they would.
34. Section 9 was approved on division.
35. Section 10, “Amendment of section 22”. was approved on division.
36. Section 11, “Amendment of section 30”. was approved on division.
37. Section 12, “Amendment of section 51”. was approved on division.
38. Section 13, “Amendment of section 52”. was approved on division.
39. Section 14, “Amendment of section 54”. was approved on division.
14 40. Section 15, “Amendment of section 56”. was approved on division,
41. Section 16, “Amendment of section 571”, was approved on division.
Section 17, “Amendment of section 59”
42. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, asked whether a co leaseholder who was not an indigenous citizen could be granted a freehold title.
43. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT felt that the principal Act had to be referred to for a clearer definition.
44. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, did not agree with the reply and repeated his question.
45. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, emphasised that the law provided that only indigenous citizens could be granted freehold titles.
46. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, repeated his question and insisted that he be given a clearer answer. He gave an example of an indigenous citizen wishing to pass on his freehold title to his naturalised widow.
47. Hon. Serge VOHOR, Minister of Foreign Affairs, explained that only the deceased’s children, one parent of whom was an indigenous citizen, could be granted a freehold title.
48. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT explained by stressing that only a revision of the Constitution could solve the issue of land ownership in such cases.
49. Section 17 was approved on division.
Section 18, “Amendment of section 60”
50 Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, expressed reservations as to financial organisations accepting mortgages on freehold titles.
51. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, advised the Opposition to take their queries to the Banks.
52. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know whether the transfer conditions of land to an original customary landowner would differ from existing conditions.
53. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, affirmed that transfer conditions would be the same.
15 54. Section 18 was approved on division.
Section 19, “Insertion of new section 62A”
55. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, asked whether the costs of transfer to freehold would be high.
56. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, explained that the costs would depend on the value of the land in question.
57. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, asked how the premium of transfer to freehold title would be worked out.
58. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, explained that all conditions had to be fulfilled before a freehold title could be acquired.
59. Section 19 was approved on division.
60. Section 20, “Amendment of section 66”, was approved on division.
61. Section 21, “Amendment of section 67”. was approved on division.
62. Section 22, “Amendment of section 68”, was approved on division.
63. Section 23, “Amendment of section 69”, was approved on division.
64. Section 24, “Amendment of section 71”. was approved on division.
65. Section 25, “Amendment of section 72”, was approved on division.
66. Section 26, “Amendment of section 76”, was approved on division.
67. Section 27, “Amendment of section 91”. was approved on division.
68. Section 28, “Amendment of section 107”. was approved on division.
Section 29, “Amendment of Schedule”
69. Hon. Walter LINI, Member of Pentecost, asked for clarification of the 2% fee.
70. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, replied that the 2% fee was for registration.
71. Hon. Ioulu ABB IL, Member for Tanna, wanted to know how the 2% fee would be calculated.
72. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, explained that a 2% fee would be charged for registration and another 2% for stamp duty.
16 73. Section 29 was approved on division.
Section 30, “Commencement”
74. Hon. Walter LINI, Member of Pentecost, wanted to know if the approval of the Bill would speed up the implementation of the Freehold Title Act No. 13 of 1994.
75. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, indicated that it would.
76. Section 30 was approved on division.
SECOND READING
77. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, moved that the Bill be read a second time and do pass.
78. The motion that the Bill be read a second time and do pass was carried with 24 votes in favour and 20 against.
79. The sitting was suspended from 3.35 p.m to 4.05 p.m.
WRITTEN QUESTIONS
80. Noting that there were no written questions, the Speaker adjourned the sitting at 4.05 p.m.
17 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
FOURTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
FIRST ORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
THURSDAY, 30 MARCH 1995
SPEAKER The Hon. Alfred MAS ENG, Member for Luganville
PRESENT
ABSENT
1, The sitting commenced at 8.40 a.m.
2. Hon. Jimmy SIMON, Member for Epi, said the prayer. 3 Hon. Speaker MASENG read the agenda.
STATEMENT BY MINISTERS
4. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, made a statement concerning banking operations, the 4% turnover tax, the media and Vanuatu’s tax haven status. (Text appended)
5, Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, replied to the statement by arguing that it was the Government’s duty to be concerned about the operations of people especially in the business sector. The media gave out news whether or not it was false and it was up to people to interpret it for themselves. The media had right to sue and be sued. He said accusations against the media and threats by the Coalition Government jeopardise freedom of expression, which the Government so much claimed to champion. He said that although prices of imported goods depended on the exporting country, the 4% turnover tax was applied at both the wholesale and retail prices so that sometimes up to 8% tax could be paid. He warned that the Government should stop threatening the media.
18 6. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, was pleased to hear that the Olilian Bank had a valid business licence and expressed the opinion that newspapers had the right to publish any news. He wondered whether the Government would continue to uphold freedom of expression and whether it would be the consumer who would finally pay the 4% turnover tax.
7. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT wondered whether freedom of the press still prevailed in Vanuatu.
8. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, emphasised that freedom of the press was being abused.
9. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wondered what the Government’s policy was concerning freedom of the press and whether the 4% turnover tax would be paid by traders or consumers. She also queried whether the Vt 25 million published in the Trading Post was the correct amount sent by individuals on gambling and asked whether commercial Banks were doing anything to help Ni- Vanuatu develop.
10. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, felt that the first question was out of context. The 4% turnover tax was to be effective as of 1 April and would already have been included in only overhead costs. He pointed out that normally Ni- Vanuatu only spent one to Vt 2 thousand on gambling whereas expatriates spent from Vt 50 thousand to Vt 100 thousand or more.
11. Hon. Frankie STEVENS, Leader of Government Business and Member for Santo Rural, read the amended list of Bills to be studied.
BILL FOR THE CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION OF ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN (RATIFICATION) ACT OF 1995
FIRST READING
12. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, introduced the Bill, explained its purpose and moved that it be read a first time.
13. Hon. Meto CHILI A, Member for Efate Rural, congratulated the minister of Justice for tabling the Bill in Parliament. He expressed support for the Bill on behalf of Efate rural women underlining the significance of equal rights for men and women.
14. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, thanked Minister REGANVANU for the detailed explanation and expressed regret that it had taken fourteen years to reach this stage. She commended the women’s initiative in bringing the ratification
19 plan to fruition. She hoped that Parliament would ratify the Bill without reservation and further implement its provisions. She also hoped that the Government would prepare a national plan of action before going to the Women’s conference in Beijing in September.
15. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport and Public Works, expressed support for the Bill and thanked the Minister of Justice for tabling the Bill. He also r egretted t hat t he B ill h ad n ot b een s ubmitted e arlier, as t here m ight h ave been fewer cases of violence against women than presently recorded.
16. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, supported the Bill stating that it constituted challenges in terms of Vanuatu cultures. He cited certain examples such as how the convention would question the way Ni-Vanuatu men had to pay a bride price, patrilineal inheritance of land and the choice of children to send to school. He warned that ratification would mean that 30% of Parliament seats would have to be occupied by women. He asked whether Vanuatu was ready for this.
17. Hon. O nnehyn T AHI congratulated the G ovemment for i ntroducing the B ill i n Parliament. He declared that it had come at the right time and Vanuatu was mature enough to accept it without reservation. He stressed however that Vanuatu should follow the example of Asian counties by ratifying the treaty and yet maintaining its culture. He concluded that he hoped there would be more women in Parliament in future.
18. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, expressed support for the Bill, stating that NUP firmly believed in the conditions of the Convention. He felt that if the Convention had been ratified earlier; there would still have been as much violence against women as there was still no national legislation governing women’s rights. He pointed out that it was difficult for the Convention to dictate how the Church or cultures should operate.
19. The sitting was suspended form 10.30 a.m to 11.00 a.m.
20. Hon. Serge VOHOR, Minister of Foreign Affairs, supported the principles of the Bill and thanked the Minister of Justice for tabling it. He said that it was important to ratify the Convention, which would lead to a better understanding of women’s roles in modem society. Comparing Vanuatu with other countries, he felt that there were far fewer forms of discrimination in the country,. He explained that equal opportunity existed in Vanuatu and the Government’s ffee- education policy further re-enforced the idea. He said that the Convention would enable the Government to legislate for the elimination of violence against women. However, he appealed to the church, customary leaders, women and youth leaders to strive together to fight against discrimination and create equal rights awareness. He said that tit should be accepted that women were the mothers of a nation and
20 therefore encouraged them to participate in politics, the economy, religion and the affairs of the state.
21. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT expressed his support for the Bill and congratulated the Minister of Justice for introducing it. He said that everyone should invest more effort into ensuring that there is peace and high standards of living in families. He stated that Vanuatu was steps ahead of the Convention in eliminating discrimination against women, but to further improve the situation there had to be some reform measures in the Government structure. He pointed out that some areas were not covered by the Convention, but each signatory must assist the UNO to cover the possible loopholes and to make sure that too much freedom does not lead to traps. He said that the provisions relating to quotas of Parliamentary seats might cause some conflicts. He concluded by wondering if a male foreigner married to an indigenous Ni-Vanuatu could be allowed acquire Vanuatu citizenship.
22. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m and resumed at 2.10 p.m.
23. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo Rural, expressed his support for the Bill and congratulated the Government and women’s organisations that contributed toward it. He felt that would be a historical step despite Vanuatu’s varied cultural and social background recognised that certain customary and religious practices should be changed, because of their discriminatory nature. He said each country should implement this convention through Acts of Parliament to make it effective and that women had to have the same rights as men.
24. Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, spoke in support of the Bill but said although many countries had exercised equal rights, he had reservations for women on Tanna who still needed time to come to terms with certain rights. He wondered whether women on Tanna could inherit customary land from their fathers in the same way as their brothers.
25. Hon. Jack HOPA, Member for Ambrym, expressed the fact the notion of equality of men and women varied according to their islands and customs and that despite this convention, women and men played appropriate roles in their place in society. He thanked the women who had contributed to this Bill.
26. Hon. Jerethy RASEN, Member for Malekula, supported the B ill as he felt that women had specific roles to play in society, but expressed concern that in his culture, t radition s till r iled h eavily and w omen could n ot t ake certain p ositions such as chief or take part in namangi. He hoped that this Bill would not be used as a weapon.
27. Hon. Ioulu A BBIL, M ember f or T anna, a ppreciated t he v arious c omments, b ut emphasised that women could not have certain rights, thus the convention should
21 be adopted with certain reservations. Changes could not take place quickly otherwise there was a risk of changing Vanuatu culture altogether.
28. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, although supporting the Bill, expressed reservations that even the Bible provided for a particular role for women which was different to that of men and be believed over 90% of the people felt that this Bill would only benefit women in clerical and administrative jobs.
29. Hon. Robert KARIE, Member for Tongoa/Shepherds, expressed similar views as Hon. Minister JIMMY in that, although he was supportive of the Bill, he thought that since independence women had acquired similar knowledge as men. He hoped that sufficient information on this convention would be provided to women throughout the villages of Vanuatu and that women bureaucrats should not abuse this Bill.
30. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, although supportive of the Bill, expressed reservations, as he felt that before and even after the arrival of Europeans, both men and women had their appropriate roles and places in society, but this Convention had come about because of loss of mutual respect between men ands women due to westernisation.
31. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, accepted the reservations from both sides of the House and emphasised that the convention covered all forms of discrimination. It was up to the Vanuatu Government to accept international views and then make legislation in detail, taking necessary measures in accordance with t he n ation’s cultural d iversity. It was however an appropriate convention for women who had been victims of discrimination. He pointed out that the question establishing a Committee was the responsibility of the United Nations. He further called on churches, chiefs and all institutions to cooperate in addressing the issues of this Convention.
32. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was carried unanimously.
COMMITTEE STAGE
Section 1, “Ratification’’
33. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, expressed support for the Bill and stressed that women should not be forced to acquire the same citizenship as their husbands.
34. Hon. Edward NATAPEI, Member for Other Southern Islands, inquired whether the Government would be able to quickly submit a report to the United Nations.
22 35. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, replied that the first report to the UN would point out areas that could be implemented and those that needed time to be looked into due to cultural factors.
36. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT explained that many of the Convention’s provisions were already being practised in Vanuatu while other areas required the establishment of national laws to enable their implementation.
37. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, wanted to know how many other countries had ratified the Convention and whether it was really necessary that Vanuatu do so immediately.
38. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, stated that he could not specify the exact number to date, but six years ago there had been a hundred countries that had signed it. He stressed that, as a member, Vanuatu should ratify the Convention.
39. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo Rural, considered there would be more pressure from the United States Government if Vanuatu ratified the Convention.
40. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, emphasised in response that Vanuatu would be answerable to the UN and not the US, once it had ratified the Convention.
41. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, stated that Vanuatu would be the second Pacific country to ratify the Convention after Western Samoa. She wanted to know if there was anyway to enforce maternity leave in the private sector.
42. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, replied that there was no related national law as yet.
43. Section 1 was approved unanimously.
44. Section 2, ^Commencement”. was approved unanimously.
SECOND READING
45. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, moved that the Bill be read a second time and do pass.
46. The motion that the Bill be read a second time and do pass was carried unanimously.
47. The sitting was adjourned at 3.25 p.m.
23 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
FOURTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
FIRST ORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
FRIDAY, 31 MARCH 1995
SPEAKER : The Hon. Alfred MASENG, Member for Luganville
PRESENT :
ABSENT :
1. The sitting opened at 8.35 a.m.
2 Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, said the prayer.
3. Hon. Speaker MASENG read the agenda.
BILL FOR THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY OF VANUATU ACT OF 1995
FIRST READING
4. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, introduced the Bill, explained its purpose and moved that it be read a first time.
5. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, asked why Luganville did not have its own Chamber of Commerce and Industry and wondered how this body would be beneficial to both traders and ordinary citizens. She also wondered how the 2% levy would be paid and whether membership was compulsory.
6 Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, considered that the questions could be dealt with more appropriately at the Committee stage.
7, Hon. Barak S OPE, Member for E fate Rural, expressed his appreciation for the Bill, although he would abstain from voting on it. He felt that it was appropriate
24 for the Minister to introduce this Bill, which would contribute enormously to economic development for Ni-Vanuatu as an advisory body for all the various traders in all sectors, even though some areas had been overlooked.
8. Hon. Ioulu ABB1L, Member for Tanna, although maintaining the Bill would enable Ni-Vanuatu to understand economics better, wondered whether this body could survive with only the 2% deduction from fees after the Vt 10 million, granted by the government for the Chamber’s operations, had been used up, as some small Provinces did not have sufficient recourses. He wondered how the new body would operate compared to the old one.
9. Hon. Serge VOHOR, Minister of Foreign Affairs, spoke in support of the Bill and said that the establishment of such a body would help to organise business people including Ni-Vanuatu and act as an advisory body in certain difficult situations. He said the government did not have any ulterior motive in establishing this body.
10. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, felt that although he valued the various comments made concerning the Chamber of Commerce which would unify and improve business people to voice their wishes, and act as an advisory body, he was concerned about large businesses using the smaller ones for their ends.
11 Hon. Jerethy RASEN, Member for Malekula, stressed his support for the Bill as it was in line with the government’s policy on decentralisation and improvement of Ni-Vanuatu businesses, although he felt that the Bill should have come to Parliament earlier.
12. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/ Malo/Aore, felt that the Bill was appropriate, as the Chambers would enable Ni-Vanuatu to start businesses, although he voiced similar concerns as Hon. KALPOKAS, and preferred membership to be voluntary. He said the deduction of 2% from the business licence fees would increase thereby suffocating small businesses. He asked why Luganville did not have its own Chamber.
13. Hon. Onnehyn TAHI, Member for Ambae, supported the Bill and said that it established an appropriate body, which would help rural business people to improve in their businesses through the information it would provide as well as advice on all areas of business and industry. It would also help to solve certain difficulties faced by business people. He was nevertheless concerned that large businesses would use the small ones for their own ends through this body, thus eliminating the smaller ones.
14 Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, although supporting the Bill, wondered why such a public institution would be controlled by the private sector and asked whether the Bill covered other sectors such as fisheries and forestry.
25 15. Hon. Sethy REGANVANU, Minister of Justice, pointed out that this was the first Bill following on from the new Decentralisation Act. He supported the principles of the Bill and was grateful to the Minister of Finance for introducing it, because it would result in better organisation within the Chambers of Commerce. He agreed that all businessmen should be involved so they could all benefit from the new Act. He said that the Bill would entail more involvement of the Ni-Vanuatu business community in the business sector. He concluded that the Bill would protect the interests of both foreign and local investors.
16. Hon, Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, was pleased with the government’s effort to try and solve a long standing problem, but claimed that the Bill was not the answer or solution to this problem. He said that discrepancies would continue to exist in the business sector and therefore his party, NL1P, not seeing how the Bill would assist Ni-Vanuatu -owned businesses, would vote against it. He stated that the Chamber of Commerce was totally under the control of expatriates and in addition to its poor financial status and lack of proper legislation, the operations of the Chamber had come to a standstill. He declared that expatriates would continue to have full control of the Chambers of Commerce. He voiced his concern that the provinces of Sanma and Luganville should have separate Chambers and concluded by reasserting the inappropriateness of the Chambers.
17. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT was surprised to hear the comments made by the Opposition and said that both sides of the House should accept the importance of Chambers of Commerce. He stressed the fact that the establishment of the Chambers would boost investment and generate more revenue for the government. Their establishment was essential, considering their advisory status in the commerce and industry sectors. He was unsure why other Pacific countries had their Chambers of Commerce whilst Vanuatu had not established her own, but stated that many businesses would support the government in establishing one. He said that the government should not interfere with management and administration of the Chambers, but merely see the bodies as a source of revenue. He explained that the cooperative system had been reviewed and improved by his government following its poor state due to unsatisfactory management. He added that the tourist industry had seen much improvement thanks to the government’s efforts in setting up Vanuatu consuls overseas. He felt that both local and foreign companies should work hand in hand to assist t he government i n i ts economic development plans. He concluded that the new Chambers of Commerce should establish links with other Chambers of Commerce in the region in order to promote inter-regional business activities and use their experts to assist and provide advice concerning commercial and economic development.
18. Hon, Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, expressed the same view' as those of the Prime Minister, but was sorry to hear that NUP would be voting against the Bill, which was a tool to market Vanuatu overseas. He explained that the Chamber of Commerce would protect the interests of local businesses, foreign investors and
26 offshore companies. He added that the Bill also covered the tourist industry. He concluded by stating that during the 11-year rule of the VP government no such law had been tabled in Parliament. He explained that there would be two meetings held annually and the representatives from each province would attend these meetings. He added that this Bill showed the government’s commitment to protecting the interests of the private sector.
19. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was approved by 24 votes in favour, 6 against and 14 abstentions.
20. The sitting was suspended at 10.35 a.m and resumed at 11.10 a. m.
COMMITTEE STAGE
Section 1. “Definitions”
21. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, wanted to know if Luganville was regarded as a region.
22. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that it was.
23. Section 1 was approved on division.
24. Section 2. “Establishment of Chambers”, was approved on division.
Section 3, “Objectives and Functions of the Chambers”
25. Hon. Ioulu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, wondered with regard to paragraph 3 (3) (a), whether the role of the Rural Business Development programme would come into conflict with that of the Chamber of Commerce.
26. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that such institutions would work together with the Chamber to ensure the success of businesses.
27. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, wanted to know if the provisions of the Bill would cause problems for such institutions as the National Farmers’ Association or the Tourism Office.
28. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, emphasised that the Bill, which only concerned businesses, did not effect these institutions.
29. Section 3 was approved on division.
Section 4, “Membership”
27 30. Hon. loulu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, enquired whether after having changed residence to another province, one could still retain membership in the previous province one had registered in.
31. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that once a member had changed residence, he or she automatically changed membership to the new province.
32. Hon. Meto CHILIA, Member for Efate Rural, wanted to know how the Chamber could assist small businesses.’
33. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that the Chamber would assist small businesses by providing educational programmes.
34. Hon. Jimmy SIMON, Member for Epi, wanted to know whether small businesses could become members of the Chamber of Commerce.
35. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that all businesses with a business hence would be members of the Chamber.
36. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m and resumed at 2.10 p.m.
ORAL QUESTIONS
37. Hon. Onnehyn TAHI, Member for Ambae, asked what stage road constructions on Ambae were at, why bridges had not been built and why there was no roller.
38. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport and Public Works, replied that the road construction started the year before were near completion but had been slowed down by the rainy season, planned bridges had been replaced by fords which were less expensive. He said that the roller had broken down and in any case soil on Ambae was too and subject to weather damage.
39. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of Government Business, asked what the Government was doing to reach international standards in examinations sat in Vanuatu.
40. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, replied that the Government was looking into a new educational structure through which the existing examinations would be upgraded to international standards in order to help students enter universities overseas. He informed the House that students currently sat a regional examination.
41. Hon. Louis CARLOT, Member for Efate, asked whether owners of guns confiscated during the 19988 troubles could retrieve their guns.
28 42. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT, in reply, explained that the police had detained certain guns, as they were unlicensed, but some could be returned to owners who had proper licences.
43. Hon. Jack HOP A, Member for Ambrym, asked the stage at which the North Ambrym airport construction was at and when it would be opened.
44. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport and Public Works, replied that construction of the airport was progressing and would be completed soon, after which the opening would take place.
45. Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, asked whether private schools would obtain school materials from REO’s in their areas.
46. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, replied that schools could purchase materials from REO’s with their grants from the Government.
47. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, asked whether the squatters at the Freshwind housing development at Ohlen had been individually served eviction notices.
48. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, replied that the government had leased the land to the investor.
49. Hon. Ioulu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, asked whether MV Prince II had began buying produce other than copra from the islands.
50. Hon. Serge VOHOR, Minister of Trades, replied that Prince II was currently buying only copra and cacao from the islands at the same price as the VCMB warehouses at Luganville and Port Vila. He said it would soon buy other agricultural produce, shortly before the elections.
51. Hon. Blaise BATIK, Member for Ambrym, asked when road construction on West Ambrym would begin.
52. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport and Public Works, replied that work would start when the funds were available.
53. Hon. Meto CHILLA, Member for Efate, asked why the government had granted two logging licences to companies on Malekula.
54. Hon. Thomas FARATIA, Minister of Agriculture and Forestry, replied that the government had not issued any new logging licences and the media was confusing the public.
29 55. Hon. Derek LULUM, Member for Banks/Torres, asked whether the number of Parliamentary seats for Torba would be increased.
56. Hon. Charlie NAKO, Minister of Internal Affairs, replied that the government had not yet decided on the number.
57. Hon. Joseph CALO, Member for Tongoa/ Shepherds, asked whether the voting system used for the Provincial elections would be used in the 1995 General Elections.
58. Hon. Charlie NAKO, Minister of Internal Affairs, replied that it would not.
59. Hon. Edward NATAPEI, Member for Other Southern Islands, asked whether the government had taken measures to discourage double votes registration.
60. Hon. Charlie NAKO, Minister of Internal Affairs, said that he had not been aware of the practice.
61. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT added that offenders could be prosecuted.
62. Hon. Samson BUE, Member for Ambae, asked where shipping licence fees were paid.
63. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that shipping licence fees should be paid in the Province where the ship operated.
64. Hon. Elison SAMUEL, Member for Malekula, asked whether a bridge would be built over the Pankumu River by PWD.
65. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport and Public Works, replied that construction could not take place unless there was a prior feasibility study.
66. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, asked when the government would look into compensating people for the troubles of May 16 1988.
67. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT answered by explaining that the government had received only a few requests to date for compensation regarding the 16 May troubles.
68. Hon. Demis LANGO, Member for Paama, asked when a telephone would be installed in his constituency on Paama.
69. Hon, Prime Minister CARLOT explained that telephone installation on Paama was included in the rural areas telephone installation program.
30 70. Hon. Job BULF.WU, Member for Pentecost, asked whether roads on South Pentecost would be repaired and what would be done with equipment not being used.
71. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport and Public Works, answered by explaining that the Pang-Melsisi road was in the road repair plan, but work had been held up b the rainy season. He stressed that the Member should urge the villages of that area to be flexible in allowing PWD to extract rocks were really needed. He alleged that certain people had even disputed the idea of building a road.
72. Hon. Alick HOPMAN, Member for Port Vila, asked why Nambawan Bottle Shop had removed a container form the wharf without paying customs duty.
73. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, in reply, explained that any importer could remove goods from the wharf but keep them locked elsewhere under bond to save wharfage costs until duty was paid. He said this was legal, as long as one had an import licence.
STATEMENTS BY MEMBERS
74. Hon. Allan BULE, Member for Pentecost, delivered his statement concerning the drop in primary education standards in Vanuatu. (Copies of the statement are available at the Clerk’s office)
75. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/ Malo/Aore, made a statement relating to concerns raised by indigenous customary owners concerning the UMP-led government’s policy on freehold land tenure and the registration of voters. (Copies of the statement are available at the Clerk’s office)
76. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, issued a statement concerning the role of women in society, the process of eliminating discrimination against women and the state of health services that affected the health of women and children. (Copies of the statement are available at the Clerk’s office)
77 Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, delivered a statement concerning Members of Parliament. (Copies of the statement are available at the Clerk’s office)
78. Hon. Frankie STEVEN, Member for Santo/ Malo/Aore, made a statement relating to the development process in Vanuatu. (Copies of the statement are available at the Clerk’s office)
79. Hon. Jerethy RASEN, Member for Malekula, issued his statement concerning the state funeral of the late Chief and Pastor Fred K. Timakata. (Copies of the statement are available at the Clerk’s office)
31 80. The sitting was adjourned at 3.45 p.m.
32 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
FOURTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
FIRST ORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
MONDAY 3 APRIL 1995
SPEAKER : The Hon. Alfred MASENG, Member for Luganville
PRESENT :
ABSENT :
1. The sitting commenced at 8.40 a.m.
2. Hon. Demis LANGO, Member for Paama, said the prayer.
3. Hon. Speaker MASENG read the agenda.
STATEMENTS BY MINISTERS
4. Hon. Paul TELLJKLUK, Minister of Lands, made a statement concerning certain land and logging issues in Vanuatu. (Text appended.)
5. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, replied saying that he had listened with both interest and confusion. He felt that the companies should not have been allowed to operate in the first place by the customary landowners of Malekula, who were partly to be blamed for this regrettable situation. Referring to public land, he explained that the former Government had already given back the majority of this type of land to customary owners and intended to give full compensation for any land acquired.
6. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, expressed his concern that the Minister had publicly divulged confidential information on logging companies. He said the Government ought to have gone to villagers and explained any misunderstandings. He added that the people of Loltong (Pentecost) had decided that the area should become urban land instead of public land, but the Government should repeal the Ministerial order which declared it public land.
33 7. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efatc Rural, asked whom the people were who had lost their lease titles and had blamed it on him. He also wondered what freehold title meant.
8. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, replied that he would give an answer to the first question in the afternoon. He explained that the holder of a lease title could become a freehold titleholder of land situated in Port Vila or Luganville.
9. Hon. Ioulu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, asked why the Minister of Natural Resources had made statement concerning forestry, which was not under his portfolio.
10. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, replied that this statement had been made concerning Malekula as member for that area.
11. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, asked whether the Government could retain land leased by a provincial Government form a customary owner when the lease expired?
12. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, replied that the law was not clear regarding this situation.
13. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, made a statement concerning education in Vanuatu. (Text appended)
14. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, said that this statement had provided food for thought, as usually people tended to expect everything from the Government. He said people should be taught to find their own means to helping schools operate a.:d not to depend on handouts. He added that school fees should be enforced however t -P He gave Ulei as an example of funds being raised to’ repair classrooms. He also eiuphcH .‘,-d that mission school systems ought to be studied, as the methods practised in them had better.
15. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, emphasised that schools ■« Penama Province were still in a poor state of repair with the exception or scr.?c " iBm Mclsisi Secondary School. He felt that the Government should act quickly, as institutions like Potovno School had almost run out of educational supplies. He stressed that it was all very well to talk about supporting French-medium schools, but it had to be actually done. Lolopuepue Secondary School, for example, totally lacked this support.
16. The sitting was suspended from 10.00 a.m to 10.35 a.m.
34 BILL FOR THE CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY OF VANUATU ACT OF 1995
COMMITTEE STAGE
17. Section 4, “Membership”, was approved on division.
Section 5, “Voting Rights”
18. Hon. Edward NATAPEI, Member for Other Southern Islands, wanted to know if a partnership managing a number of companies could send several members representing the various companies.
19. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that each of the companies should have a business licence and therefore only one representative each would be authorised.
20. Section 5 was approved on division.
Section 6, “Associate Membership”
21. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, asked the Minster to give a brief explanation of what associate membership meant.
22. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that an association, which was involved in business but did not have a licence to do so might be granted associate membership and he cited VNCW as a good example.
23. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wondered if Ni-Vanuatu associations could be granted associate membership by the Chamber of Commerce.
24. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, responded that Section 6 would cover groups not taken into account by other sections especially in the areas of agriculture, forestry, fisheries, etc.
25. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, could not think of anyone who was legally exempted from holding a business licence but was operating as business.
26. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know if associate membership could be granted to the Taxi or Bus Association as individual groups.
27. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, indicated that it could, provided the group was legally exempted from holding a business licence.
28. Section 6 was approved on division.
35 Section 7, “Subscriptions”
29. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, was unsure why the Act would only come into effect in January 1996 and not earlier.
30. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know if the 2% subscription by each region would be levied by some form of taxation by local Government.
31. Hon. Ioulu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, asked what the amount of member subscriptions of a businessman with several businesses would be and also wondered if a person could obtain membership of regional Chambers in which his businesses were based but in which he did not reside.
32. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, confirmed that the commencement date was correct and once the Ac was gazetted, a provisional council would do all the preparation work before January 1995. He added that the 2% deduction could not be recovered elsewhere without Parliament’s amending CAP 173.
33. Hon. Ioulu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, demanded a response to his question.
34. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that the granting of membership would depend on the location of the parent company and its nature. However, he declared that only one membership would be granted to a business licence holder.
35. Hon. Sela MOL1SA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, asked if a person or association could continue to be a member even after the business licence had expired.
36. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, answered that once the business licence expired, the person or association concerned would cease to be a member.
37. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, queried if anyone owning two different companies should pay two subscriptions to the Chamber of Commerce.
38. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that the purpose of this section was to generate some funds for the Chamber of Commerce.
39. Section 7 was approved on division.
40. Section 8, “Other sources of Funding”, was approved on division.
36 Section 9, “Investment of funds”
41. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, in relation to the investment of the Chamber’s funds, asked whether there was a law governing the establishment of trust funds.
42. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, answered that the Chamber’s Board would decide on the administration and management of its funds.
43. Section 9 was approved on division.
44. Section 10, “Accounts and Audit”, was approved on division.
45. Section 11, “Annual Estimates”, was approved on division.
Section 12, “Application of Subscriptions and other funds”
46. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, asked the Minister of Finance to explain what a support centre was.
47. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that a support centre was where training would take place and added that 50% of all subscriptions would be used to run the centre,
48. Hon. Edward NATAPEI, Member for Other Southern Islands, wondered if travelling expenses of members attending extraordinary meetings would be covered under Section 12 (2) (b).
49. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, responded that it would be at the Board’s discretion whether or not travelling expenses should be covered.
50. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, was unsure about the provisions veering the payment of legal services would be provided by the Attorney General’s Chambers.
51. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that a consultancy service had been paid for by New Caledonia Chamber of Commerce and legal services would be provided by the Attorney General’s Chambers.
52. Section 12 was approved on division.
53. Section 13, “National Council of the Chambers of Commerce and Industry”, was approved on division.
Section 14, “President of the Council”
37 54. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, queried the appointment procedure for the Secretary, Treasurer and Auditor.
55. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, pointed out that the appointment procedures were correct and were set out in the Bill.
56. Hon. Sela M0L1SA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, wondered if the right to hold office as President of the Chamber should be vested in indigenous Ni-Vanuatu only.
57. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, felt that such a move would be discriminatory.
58. Section 14 was approved on division.
59. Section 15, “Secretariat of the National Council”, was approved on division.
60. Section 16, “Meetings of the National Council”, was approved on division.
61. Section 17, “Name of the National Council”, was approved on division.
Section 18, “Organization of the Chambers of Commerce and Industry”
62. Hon. Meto CHIL1A, Member for Efate, felt that some omissions had been made in the French text.
63. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m and resumed at 2.20 p.m.
64. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, stated that the French term “personne morale” was correct as it stood.
65. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, felt that subsection (1) was discriminatory and preferred to delete the words “at least one” for the number of women in the council and to replace them with “at least 50%”.
66. Hon. Edward NATAPEI, Member for Other Southern Islands, wondered whether there should be permanent staff under subsection (5).
67. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that women’s representatives had insisted that at least one member should be a woman, as only a few women went into business. In reply to Hon. NATAPEI, he said subsections (4) and (5) complemented each other.
68. Hon. Ioulu ABBIL, Member for Tanna, asked why some members had a one-year and others a two-year term under subsections (4) and (5).
38 69. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that everyone had a two-year term except the presidents, secretaries and treasurers.
70. Section 18 was approved on division.
Section 19, “Organization of the Capital Chamber”
71. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, asked whether the women at the Port Vila or Luganville markets could become members of a Chamber of Commerce under subsection 2 (a).
72. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, asked whether a husband and wife who each held different business licences could both become members of a Chamber of Commerce.
73. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, answered by affirming that Hon. SOPE’s hypothesis was correct and to Hon. Hilda LINFs question, replied that any decision in this area was at the discretion of the Chamber of Commerce.
74. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, referring to subsection 2(a), considered that the expression “by any group or groups representing women in Vanuatu” could create conflicts among women’s groups.
75. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, appreciated Hon. BOULEKONE’s concern but pointed out that any representative of any women’s groups could be chosen.
76. Hon. Sela MOLISA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, could not understand how the Minister, rather than Parliament, could approve an amendment to the section, as provided foe in subsection 19(5).
77. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, explained that this subsection enabled the Chamber to make decisions without having to refer to Parliament each time.
78. Section 19 was approved on division.
79. Section 20, “Register”, was approved on division.
80. Section 21, “Officers and employees”, was approved on division.
81. Section 22, “Government Supervisions”, was approved on division.
Section 23, “Transitional Provisions”
82. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, asked why only the capital Chamber was granted Vt 10 million under subsection (2).
39 83. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied by explaining that the capital Chamber was the first to be established to administer the other provincial Chambers.
84. Section 23 was approved on division.
85. Section 24, “Regulations’-, was approved on division.
86. Section 25, “Use of name prohibited”, was approved on division.
87. Section 26, “Other Business Association may act independently”, was approved on division.
88. Section 27, “Commencement”, was approved on division.
SECOND READING
89. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, moved that the Bill be read a second time and to pass.
90. The motion that the bill be read a second time and do pass was carried with 22 votes in favour, and 13 abstentions.
BILL FOR THE IMPORT DUTIES (CONSOLIDATION) AMENDMENT ACT OF 1995
FIRST READING
91. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, introduced the Bill and moved that it be read a first time.
92. Hon. Sela MOL1SA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore appreciated the reduction in prices as he thought that the Government had adopted the Opposition’s ideas. He emphasised that it had been wrong of the Government play down the impact of the4% tax in November as this Bill proved. He felt that the Government had expected a Vt 249 million loss, but the Opposition expected more. He added that the Government should strictly control traders so that they would not take advantage of the situation. He predicted that prices would only be reduced in July and then only if price control was effectively enforced. He noted that according to the Neil Warren report, reduction of duties should be offset elsewhere. He joined the Minister in appealing to all traders to reduce their prices.
93. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, appreciated the Bill, which had taken the Opposition ‘s constructive criticism into account he felt that it was being used as a bribe to entice voters in the coming elections. He supported the Minister in
40 asking traders to reduce their prices, although he felt that the Government should look into reviewing the 4% tax, especially regarding wholesalers.
94. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, spoke against the Bill and stated that the Government was being inconsistent, as it should have introduced these measures with the 4% turnover tax. She argued that indecent publications should be heavily taxed. She believed the Bill be an electoral propaganda stunt, as well as a way of covering up errors UMP had made.
95. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, regretted that certain members had not read Neil Warren’s report. He stated that the 4% turnover tax was an indirect levy and many traders had acted to frustrate the spirit of the law and the Government’s intentions. The Minister objected strongly to interjections made by Hon. Hilda LINI.
96. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, raised a point of order saying that the Speaker should ask the Minister of Finance to withdraw his comments made against Hon. Hilda LINI.
97. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, accepted to withdraw his comments, but asked the Hon. MP to stop interrupting when he had the floor. He continued his response by stating that the censorship Board had been established under a separate Act and not under the Customs Tariff. He explained that during his budget speech, he had declared Vt 350 million as the total revenue projection but it now appeared that, with the turnover tax, the projection would be exceeded.
98. The sitting was suspended from 3.35 p.m to 4.10 p.m.
ORAL QUESTIONS
99. The response to Hon. SOPE’s question in the morning regarding his statement, Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, informed the House that the two plots referred to in his statement were situated at Freswota 1. He said one was registered by Mr. Henry Charles Naul (alias “Keke”) with the two colonial Governments under lease title No.300/900/90 and later re-registered under title 11/0E31/025. The other plot, he added, was first registered by Mr. Roger Silas under lease title No. 40.84 and re-registered after Independence under title No. 11/0E31/026.
100. Hon. Robert KARIE, Member for Tongoa/Shepherds, questioned the future use of premises in the now abandoned Nambangasale Junior Secondary School on Tongoa.
101. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, answered that the school was situated on the windward side of the island and therefore a safer and sheltered
41 location had to be chosen to build the new school. The new location should also have good water supply, he added.
102. Hon. Onnehyn TAHI, Member for Ambae, wanted to know when television broadcasts would reach the rural population and queried about the commencement of local television programmes.
103. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT answered that the next development stage would see the population of Malampa and Penama having access to television broadcasts. This would come about in June during which TBV would begin covering local programs.
104. Hon. Jeffrey LAVHA, Member for Tanna, questioned why over one thousand students had begun classes late and why over forty teachers’ posts were vacant.
105. Hon. Roman BATIK., Minister of Education, responded that the vacancies were due to insufficient budgetary allocation. However, he assured the House that once a supplementary budget had been approved, the vacant posts that had previously been filled by temporary teachers would be occupied.
106. Hon. Joseph CALO, Member for Tongoa/Shepherds, was unsure of the whereabouts of the Tongariki and Buninga tele-radios.
107. Hon. Charlie NAKO, Minister of Internal Affairs, was unable to provide the information.
108. Hon. Jack HOPA, Member for Ambrym, wondered if the two vacant posts in the South East Ambrym School would be catered for in the supplementary budget.
109. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, replied that they would.
110. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, asked why the Constitutional Review Committee had not met and when the last meeting of the Censorship Board had taken place.
111. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT, in response to the first question said that it should be directed to the Chair, and in reply to the second question, said be could not state precisely the date of the last meeting of the Censorship Board.
112. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, added that the Board met frequently and mainly for customs inspection purposes.
113. Hon. Sela MOL1SA, Member for Santo/Malo/Aore, asked what action the Government intended to take if too high a salary was paid to the President of Provincial Government.
42 114. Hon. Charlie NAKO, Minister of Internal Affairs, answered that any irregular payments to top up a President’s salary would be considered misappropriation of funds and therefore incurs disciplinary action from his Ministry.
115. Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, asked what action the Ministry of Education would take if a school frequently received the assistance of parents but failed to produce good results at the end of the year.
116. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, responded that the School Board should forward a report to the Ministry.
117. Hon. Meto CHILLA, Member for Efate, wanted to know when the Mele Health Centre would commence its service.
118. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT replied that the delay was due to a contract’s not being signed, the suspension of the Director of the Health Department and political interference.
119. Hon. Derek LULUM, Member for Banks/Torres, queried the Government’s action against the Principal of Arep Junior Secondary School who had been dismissed for misconduct.
120. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, said the person concerned would not be allowed to return to the school.
121. Hon. Barak SOPE, Member for Efate Rural, asked Hon. Minister of Lands to disclose the names of the current occupants of the land under dispute at Freswota No.l.
122. Hon. Paul TELUKLUK, Minister of Lands, stated that in 1987, when Hon. SOPE was Minister of Transport, the land in question had been allocated to people from Tanna through arrangements made by VULCAN, but records of the transfer are difficult to trace.
123. Hon. Jerethy RASEN, Member for Malekula, asked whether the post of Private Secretary to the President of Provincial Government was legal and who would pay his salary.
124. Hon. Charlie NAKO, Minister of Internal Affairs, confirmed that the Act did not make provisions for such post and its funding would depend on the availability of funds in that Provincial Government’s budget.
125. Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition, wondered if the Minister of Education should make a pubic appeal to parents to increase their participation in the running of schools.
43 126. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, clarified that it was everyone’s responsibility to ensure that children received good education.
127. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT made an appeal to the general public to play their part in educating their children.
128. Hon. Allan BULE, Member for Pentecost, was unsure if the unfinished work left by the PWD team would be resumed and if the Enbok road was included in the Government’s priority list of development projects.
129. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport, confirmed that maintenance work would be carried out as far as Watnapne but regretted to say that funds for the Enbok road bad not been secured.
130. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, wanted to know who was responsible for repairing school buildings damaged by the recent cyclone in Melsisi.
131. Hon. Roman BATIK, Minister of Education, answered that reports had been compiled but the Melsisi Junior Secondary School was ran by the Catholic mission with grants from the Government.
132. Hon. Blaise BATIK, Member for Ambrym, requested an explanation from the Government about the commencement of the road construction project from South East to West Ambrym.
133. Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport, stated that funds had been secured under LOME IV Convention and studies were underway. Construction work should begin this year, he concluded.
134. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, wondered why employees of Metenesel Cacao Estate had not received any salary for the past four months and whether or not they could be paid their salaries.
135. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT said that the NUP Leader’s comments were news to him.
136. Hon. Thomas FARATIA, Minister of Agriculture, informed the House that the company was facing financial difficulties and was not paying any dividends to the Government, even though the latter had injected large subsidies into the project. He said that the Government was planning to privatise the company. He concluded that the Government would make every effort to ensure that the employees received their full salaries.
137. The sitting was adjourned at 5 p.m.
44 PARLIAMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
FOURTH LEGISLATURE OF PARLIAMENT
FIRST ORDINARY SESSION OF PARLIAMENT
TUESDAY 4 APRIL 1995
SPEAKER : The Hon. Alfred MASENG, Member for Luganville
PRESENT :
ABSENT :
1, The sitting commenced at 8.45 a.m.
2, Hon. Meto CHILIA, Member for Efate, said the prayer.
3, Hon. Speaker MASENG read the agenda.
STATEMENT BY MINISTERS
4, Hon. Amos BANGABITI, Minister of Transport, made a statement concerning right-hand drive vehicles imported by S.K. Logging Company and also about the initiatives taken b the government to find funds overseas to finance development projects. (Copies of the statement are available at the Clerk’s office)
5, Hon. Donald KALPOKAS, Leader of the Opposition and Member for Efate, was alarmed at how the Government was authorising the importation of logging equipment that was contrary to the laws of Vanuatu and also at the procedures followed by the Government when issuing business licences. He urged the Government to ensure that no illegal procedures were made. He stated that the road construction projects were politically motivated, particularly as elections were approaching. He pointed out that the Government should first secure funds before making any promises of building new roads, because it was not easy to obtain funds under the LOME Conventions. He concluded by advising the Minister not to blame funding agencies for not releasing funds at the appropriate time.
45 6. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, was surprised by the Minister’s statement, which, he said, clearly indicated that investors and foreign logging companies did not respect the present coalition Government. He felt that this might be due to the Government’s policy on free enterprise. He said that the whole issue of illegal importation of vehicles by S. K Logging was time wasting and asked the Government to exert authority by dumping the vehicles concerned. He admitted that the last Government had had difficulties in obtaining sufficient funds for the Enkul Road Construction project on Pentecost, but confirmed that funds currently used by the present Government to finance projects were negotiated by his Government. He also appealed to the Minister of Transport to be more diplomatic and accuse funding agencies of slowing down the process of releasing funds.
BILL FOR THE IMPORT DUTIES (CONSOLIDATION) (AMENDMENT) ACT OF 1995
FIRST READING (continue)
7. Hon. Onnehyn TAHI, Member for Ambae, supported the principles of the Bill because it would combat the high inflation rate affecting the rural population. He thanked the Government and the Ministry of Finance for taking the initiative of tabling the Bill and hoped that businesses would not cheat by continuing to charge high prices for basic commodities. He wondered if the Government could do something about the high prices in the local market, seeing that market gardeners were not affected by import duties.
8. Hon. Vincent BOULEKONE, Member for Pentecost, declared that the Unity Front would abstain from voting on the Bill because it would entail a reduction of over Vt 250 million in the Government’s provisional revenue which, only be offset by selling off the Government‘s share in the Bank of Hawaii. He said that the Government should only reduce duty on some goods because a revenue reduction could lead to poor services by the Government to the people. He stated that the tabling of the Bill had come about following complaints of high prices faced by the rural population. He urged the Government not to be influenced by big businesses and concluded by asking why import duty on alcoholic beverages had been reduced.
9. Hon. Serge VOHOR, Minister of Foreign Affairs, thanked the Government for introducing the Bill and expressed his support for its principles, because it would benefit the whole population of the country. He said that under the Vanua’aku Pati Government, prices of basic commodities had been very high in addition to the head taxes, school fees, medical charges and low copra prices that the people had to endure. He pointed out that it was UMP policy to introduce turnover tax, abolish head taxes, offer free health and education services and to increase copra prices and that the short falls in Government revenue would be covered by
46 turnover tax. He corrected the Opposition’s concern by pointing out that import duty on alcoholic beverages had been increased and not decreased and that the Government had not been influenced in anyway businesses. He concluded by stating that there were no other means of revenue earning but through taxation and the next Government would have to accept the present taxation system, otherwise, he explained, the tax basis must be expanded further for the country to survive economically.
10. Hon. Ioulu ABBEL, Member for Tanna, declared that the principles of the Bill would have an adverse effect on the budget. He emphasised the point that the Government was double taxing the people by charging high import duties and turnover tax. He said the Government was reducing import duties on basic commodities, because they had been substituted by turnover tax. He added that the 4% turnover tax was not a UMP policy, but came about only following Dr. Neal Warren’s recommendations. He wondered why the 4% turnover tax had been in application for the past three months, when the Government had clearly and publicly stated at the last Session that it come into force only as from April 1995. He finally asked the UMP-led Government to thank the VP Government for the dividends paid to recently by the Bank of Hawaii, but was sad to not that the Government had decided to withdraw its equity in the Bank. He continued that the present Government was only reaping what the VP Government had sown in the past.
11. Hon. Keasipai SONG, Member for Tanna, supported the principles of the Bill and thanked the Government for introducing it. He said that the Bill would enable the Government to provide better services to its people. He was of the view that the Opposition’s negative approaches were a clear indication of their support for high inflation.
12. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, declared that NUP would vote against the Bill, because it clearly indicated the Government’s financial administration and the confusion with regard to how to run the country. He said that the UMP- led Government had no financial stability. He continued that the Government was unstable just like its funds and that the results of this Bill would show in the coming elections. He felt that the UMP policy boasted by the Party Chairman was one, which he did not fully understand. He said the economy was like a cow gradually giving less milk or hen giving fewer eggs to the people. The northern part of the country had been affected by misadministration by the UMP Government. He pointed out that free enterprise had had a negative effect on businesses, so that by the time of the general elections, 70% of businesses of which 8% would be Chinese, would have closed down.
13. The sitting was suspended at 10.10 a.m to 10.40 a.m.
14. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT expressed his support for the Bill, as the Government had decided to reduce prices of goods most needed by Ni-Vanuatu.
47 He said when the Coalition Government came into power; there was insufficient infrastructure, some of which were in an appalling condition for development to occur in any sector. Thus his Government had made changes in order to rationalise Government expenditure most of which were in the form of aid from international organisations after better relations had been established. He also emphasised that some retailers had been wrongly applying the 4% turnover tax on individual goods and that this could be termed as theft, as it was different from import duties, which normally increased prices. He said in Fiji, turnover tax was as high as 10% and yet the Opposition was against a mere 4%. He thought that the Opposition did not respect their country although NUP had the right to oppose the reduction of prices. He praised some traders who had indicated that they were ready to support the Government’s policy. He recognised the fact that the Government had not been a good business entrepreneur but had enabled Air Vanuatu, which had been established by the previous Government, to improve in business. He said the Government would look into ways of improving other state enterprises in the same way. He also added that Government revenue would be redistributed yearly for the first time to the Provinces at a rate of 5% of the overall budget and it was the duty of individual Provinces and the Parties running them to administer the funds appropriately. He stated that the Government had sold its Bank of Hawaii’s shares that had been given to it free of charge, so that the Bank could be free to operate independently. He once more stressed that this Bill would enable the most needy Ni-Vanuatu to buy basic commodities and that his Government would make an effort to improve the country’s infrastructures with either local or European funds.
15. The sitting was suspended at 11.30 a.m and resumed at 2.10 p.m.
16. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, supported the views expressed by Hon. Minister VOHOR and Prime Minister CARLOT, when answering queries from the Opposition. He regretted to note the negative attitude and views expressed by Hon. Fr. LINI, He declared that some shops had already reduced prices of basic commodities even though this Bill had not yet been gazetted. He said that MPs should check with the Reserve Bank Governor General and Finance Department Director about the country’s financial status before making claims in Parliament to the effect that Vanuatu was facing a financial crisis. He also raised the point that the turnover tax would generate sufficient revenue to provide better services to the general public. He concluded that Government had been anxious to help the people by increasing the minimum wage and housing allowances and by reducing import duties.
17. The motion that the Bill be read a first time was carried with 22 votes in favour and 14 against.
48 COMMITTEE STAGE
18. Section 1, “Amendment of Schedule 1 to Chapter 91”. was approved on division.
Section 2, “Amendment of Stamp Duties in Schedule 1”
19. Hon. Walter LINI, Member for Pentecost, wondered whether import duties on alcoholic beverages and soap had been waived.
20. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, pointed out that import duties had been increased in order to protect local products.
21. Section 2 was approved on division.
Section 3, “Commencement”
22. Hon. Hilda LINI, Member for Port Vila, wanted to know if prices of goods currently on sale would be reduced once the Act had been gazetted or whether they would remain the same.
23. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, replied that all prices of goods cleared through Customs after the Bill had become an act of Parliament should be reduced to comply with the new law.
24. Hon. Prime Minister CARLOT confirmed the immediate application of the new Act.
25. Section 3 was approved on division.
SECOND READING
26. Hon. Willy JIMMY, Minister of Finance, moved that the Bill be read a second time and do pass.
27. The motion that the Bill be read a second time and do pass was carried with 22 votes in favour and 17 against.
28. The First Ordinary Session of Parliament of 1995 was closed at 2.30 p.m.
49 AUTHENTIFICATION
Les procds-verbaux qui figurent dans le present recueil ont 6t6 etablis par le Secretaire General du Parlement et conform6ment aux dispositions de F Article 18 du Riglement Interieur. Us ont 6t6 corrig6s et continues par le Parlement.
i PARLEMENT DE LA PARL+IAMENT OF THE REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU REPUBLIC OF VANUATU
QUATRIEME LEGISLATURE DU PARLEMENT
M. ABBIL, Iolu Johnson Depute de Tanna NL BANGABITI, Amos Depute d’Ambae M. BATICK, Romain Depute de Malekula M. BLAISE, Batick Depute d'Ambrym M. BOULEKONE, Vincent Depute de Pentecote M. BUE, Samson Depute d’Ambae M. BULE, Allen Depute de Pentecote M. BULEWU, Job Depute de Pentecote M. CALO, Joseph Depute de Tongoa/Shepherds M. CARLOT, Louis Depute d’Efate M. CARLOT, Maxime Depute de Port- Vila M. CHILIA, Jimmy Meto Depute d ’Efate M. FARATIA, Thomas Brothy Depute de Port-Vila M. HOPA, Jack Tungon Depute d 'Ambrym M. HOPMAN, Alick Allan Depute de Port-Vila M. IOUIOU, Henry Depute de Tanna M. JERETY, Rasen Depute de Malekula M. JIMMY, Willie Depute de Port-Vila M. KALPOKAS, Donald Depute d’Efate M. KARIE, Robert David Depute de Tongoa/Shepherds M. LAHVA, Jeffrey Depute de Tanna M. LANGO, Demis Depute de Paama M. LINI Walter Hadye Depute de Pentecote M. LINI, Hilda Depute de Port-Vila M. LOP, Kissel Depute de Tanna M. LULUM, Dereck Vanua Depute de Banks/Torres M. MASENG, Alfred Depute de Luganville M. MOLISA, Sela Depute de Santo/Malo/Aore M. NAKO, CHARLIE Depute de Tanna M. NATAPEI, Edward Nipake Depute des ties isolees du sud M. RAVUTIA, Albert Pisuvoke Depute de Santo/Malo/Aore M. RE GE NV ANU, Sethy John Depute de Malekula M. SAMUEL, Elson Depute de Malekula M. SIMON, Jimmy Depute d 'Epi M. SINKER, Cecil Depute de Banks/Torres
ii SOKSOK, Vital Depute de Malekula SONG, Keasipai Depute de Tanna SOPE, Barak Tame Depute d'Efate STEVEN, Franky Depute de Santo/Malo/Aore TAHT, Onneyn Depute d 'Ambae TAMATA, James Adin Depute de Maewo TAMBISARI, Edward Depute de Luganville TELUKLUK, Barthelemie Paul Depute de Malekula VOHOR, Serge Depute de Santo/Malo/Aore VUROBARAVU, Molieno Depute de Santo/Malo/Aore WELES, Timothy Depute de Santo/Malo/Aore
*
111 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
QUATRIEME LEGISLATURE
PREMIERE SESSION ORDINAIRE DE 1995 DU PARLEMENT
LUNDI 27 MARS 1995
PRESIDENT : M. Alfred MASENG. depute de Luganville
PRESENT :
ABSENT :
1. Le President ouvre la seance a 8h35.
2. Le President constate le quorum conformement a l’Article 24 de la Constitution.
3. La seance est suspendue de 8h40, reprend a 9hl 0.
4. M. Onneyn TAHI, Depute d’Ambae, dit la priere.
ALLOCUTION PRESIDENTIELLE
5. Avant son allocution, Son Excellence le President Jean Marie Leye LENELCAU demande d’observer une minute de silence en souvenir du deuxieme Chef de l’Etat, le Pasteur et Chef Fred Kalomuana Timakata recemment decede. Il presente ensuite son allocution (texte annexe).
6. La seance est suspendue a 9h55, reprend a 10h30.
7. Le President du Parlement demande au Premier ministre de repondre a l’allocution presidentielle.
8. Le Premier ministre, en reponse au discours de son Excellence le President de la Republique de Vanuatu, indique qu’il est vrai que certains deputes ne rendent jamais visite a leurs electeurs, pourtant ils touchent des indemnites a cette fin. Il remercie le President, les membres des missions diplomatiques et indique que la politique se son gouvemement consiste a augmenter le nombre de
1 representations etrangeres a Vanuatu. Concemant le droit de vote il souligne que c’est un droit fondamental de voter. Il demande aux autorites competentes de veiller a 1’enregistrement des electeurs. Concemant l’Office du Mediateur il rassure le Parlement que le gouvemement considerait une loi organique prevoyant les fonctions du bureau du Mediateur. 11 indique qu’actuellement ce Bureau a un budget de 7 millions mais souligne qu’il peut etre augmente si l’augmentation est justiflee. Concemant la Presidencc, il souligne qu’il y a un besoin reel de reconstruction, mais comme la reponse des missions etrangeres est negative quant au financement de ce projet, le gouvemement doit lui-meme faire les travaux. Concemant les medailles, il souligne que F attribution des medailles est une responsabilite du gouvemement du jour et non de la Presidency « Concemant la taxe sur le Chiffre d’affaires (4%) il souligne qu’elle n’est pas tres importante et les hommes d’affaires ni Vanuatu dont le chiffre d’affaires ne depasse pas 4 millions de vatu ne sont pas touches. Pour le controle du prix il indique que les autorites competentes, doivent s s’assurer que les commer^ants fixent leur prix de fa^on juste surtout dans les lies. Concemant le code d’investissement il precise que le ministre des Finances considerait la question. Quant aux reparations des ecoles, il indique qu’il est heureux de voir que la Communaute Europeenne accepte de les financer. 11 declare que les ecoles primaires sont actuellement en reparation, mais denonce les delais parfois tres longs precedant l’octroi des aides etrangeres. Pour les hopitaux, il indique que son gouvemement a I'intention de reparer tous les hopitaux de l’archipel; pas seulement ceux de Lamap ou de Whitesands, mais il estime que la prevention vaut mieux que la medecine curative. Le Premier ministre, reprend la question de l’accord entre le Nouvelle Zelande et Vanuatu concemant la sylviculture a Anatom, et indique que son gouvemement maintiendra cette convention. Il souligne que les expatries n’auront jamais droit a la propriete fonciere a Vanuatu. Concemant la citoyennete il indique qu’il faudra bien etudier les demandes de citoyennete vanuatuane. Le gouvemement etudie maintenant la possibilite de modifier la loi afin de pouvoir retirer la citoyennete d’une personne naturalisee. Concemant la vente de boisons alcoolisees, il estime qu’il appartient a chacun de controler sa consommation. La regiementation excessive de ce secteur risque d’etouffer 1’esprit d’entreprise. Il conclut en soulignant qu’il est d’usage que le President de la R6publique foumisse une copie de son discours avant l’ouverture du Parlement afin de permettre au Premier ministre de preparer sa reponse. Il repete le refus de la Presidence de se conformer a cette coutume.
9. Le President du Parlement, demande un Chef de FOpposition de repondre au discours du President de Republique.
10. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de FOpposition, precise que la responsabilite d’un gouvemement consiste a aider le peuple. Il regrette d’appendre que les deputes utilisent leur allocation pour acheter les voix. 11 ajoute que les membres de Fopposition n’ont pas le privilege de percevoir Fallocution de depute. Il demande au gouvemement de revoir I es aides des missions diplomatiques de
2 Vanuatu. Il explique que le droit de vote est une responsabilite importante, il demande au bureau electoral d’entreprendre 1’enregistrement de fa^on juste et efficace. Il souligne que la Constitution prevoit des droits individuels et qu’il est de la responsabilite des legislateurs d’assurer la separation des pouvoirs. Concemant le Bureau du Mediateur, il precise qu’il doit rester independant et depourvu d’ingerence d’une autorite quelconque. Il souligne qu’il est necessaire d’etablir une deontologie pour les dirigeants du pays. Concemant la Presidence, il precise que depuis trois mandats, la Presidence occupe d es 1 ieux t emporaires et 1 e gouvemement d evrait prendre 1 es mesures necessaires pour lui construire un logement permanent. Sur la question des medailles, il souligne qu’il permettra les decorer pour des oeuvres meritoires afin de sauvegarder le respect et la valeur de ces decorations. Pour le cout de la vie il remarque qui 1000VT aujourd’hui n’a plus la meme valeur que le meme montant l’annee demiere. Il exprime son inquietude, quant a la taxe de 4% sur le chiffre d’affaires, et ajoute qu’elle peut toucher le tourisme. Il demande qu’un controle des prix soit effectue. Il demande en gouvemement d’accelerer les separations des etablissements scolaire et de les doter en personnel pour permettre a tous les enfants d’aller a l’ecole. Il indique que la medecine preventive est plus importante que la medecine curative mais indique qu’il est necessaire de reparer les batiments sanitaires. Concemant la propriete fonciere, il souligne qu’on ne peut pas la ceder sans consultations prealables avec les proprietaries coutumiers, car la terre et tres importante au niveau de la coutume.
11. Le President presente ses condoleances aux membres de la famille de Mr. Fred Karlomuana Timakata.
12. M. Maxime Carlot KORMAN, Premier ministre, presente une resolution exprimant le regret du Parlement suite a la mort de M. Fred Karlomuana Timakata et propose qu’elle soit approuvee (Texte annexe ).
13. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de I’Opposition, appuie la motion.
14. La motion portant adoption de la Resolution est approuvee a Funanimite.
15. M. Maxime Carlot KORMAN, Premier ministre, presente une deuxieme resolution visant la suspension des debats jusqu’a 14h par respect pour l’ancien President de la Republique recemment decede et propose qu’elle soit approuvee par le Parlement (texte annexe).
16. La motion portant suspension des debats est approuvee par 40 voix contre 6.
17. M. Walter H. LINI, Depute de Pentecote, demande s’il est possible de suspendre le Parlement durant tout l’aprds midi.
3 18. M. Maxime Carlot KORMAN, Premier ministre, propose une modification a sa motion et en substituant les mots «jusqu’A deux heures de Fapres midi» par « jusqu’a demain matin A 8h3O ».
19. M. KALPOKAS Donald, Chef de F Opposition, appuie la motion.
20. La motion est approuvde A FunanimiU.
21. La seance est levee A 1 lh30.
4 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
QUATRIEME LEGISLATURE
PREMIERE SESSION ORDINAIRE DE 1995 DU PARLEMENT
MARDI 28 MARS 1995
PRESIDENT : M. Alfred MASENG, Depute de Luganville
PRESENT :
RETARD :
SIEGE VACANT :
1. Le President ouvre la seance a 8h35.
2. M. Elson SAMUEL, Depute de Mallikolo, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce 1’ordre du jour
4. M. Franky STEVENS, Depute de Santo/Malo, lit la liste des projets de Loi a etudier.
DE LOI DE 1998 SUR L> ACCORD EN MAT1ERE DE COOPERATION ECONOMIQUE ET TECHNIQUE ENTRE LE GOUVERNEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU ET LE GOUVERNEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE LA CHINE (RATIFICATIO)
PREMIERE LECTURE
5 5. M. Romain BATICK, ministre de l’Education, presente le Projet de Loi et en expose les motifs.
6 M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de 1’Opposition, demande pourquoi il faut approuver un surplus d’emprunt.
7 M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de 1 "Education, repond que le projet coute environ 600 millions de vatu. L’accord initial ne prevoit qu’environ 370 millions de vatu.
8. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, demande pourquoi le ministre de l’Education presente un Projet de Loi portant sur les finances qui releve du domaine du ministere des Finances.
9. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, rappelle qu’il s’agjt d’un emprunt pour financer un projet relevant du domaine de FEducation.
10. M. Onneyn TAHI, Depute de Ambae, soutient ce Projet de Loi, car si Vanuatu ne lance pas rapidement ce projet d’autres pays du Pacifique pourraient s’en emparer. Ce projet permettra a Vanuatu de former de fapon moms cher les futurs avocats.
11. M. Walter H. LINI, Depute de Pentecote, indique que le NUP soutient ce Projet de Loi et remercie le gouvemement de la Republique populaire de Chine de sa confiance et de son engagement a l’egard de Vanuatu.
12. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, exprime son soutien au Projet de Loi et remercie le gouvemement se la Republique de Chine pour leur assistance, mais de se demande pourquoi le gouvemement a change son attitude a l’egard des pays communi stes, tels que le Chine.
13. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, exprime son soutien au Projet de loi et remercie le gouvemement de Chine d’avoir accorde un tel pret au gouvemement de Vanuatu.
14. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, exprime sa surprise quant aux remarques contradictoires de I’Opposition. Il precise que le fait de remerci er la Chine et en meme temps la traiter de pays communiste constitue une moquerie envers la Republique populaire Chinoise. Il admet que l’UPM a une politique anti-communiste, mais precise que le present gouvemement est une coalition necessitant uncertain compromis etque 1 a Chinedevient deplusenplusun pays democratique. Il declare que si le gouvemement decidait de trancher les liens avec des pays communistes, il viserait plutot la Lybie, Cuba et d’autres pays de ce genre avec lesquels l’ancien gouvemement avait forge des liens. Il remercie les propritiaires fonciers d’Erakor avec lesquels des negotiations sur
6 l’indemnisation doivent etre entamees, le ministre de l’Education et l’ambassadeur de la chine pour leur contribution a la resolution de Faccord.
15. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, exprime son soutien au Projet de Loi et souligne que la section de la Faculte de droit est une institution regionale et que le projet devait etre finance par l’UPS mais cet etablissement ne disposait pas des moyens necessaires. Il precise qui Vanuatu est le troisieme pays apres Fidji et les Samoa a avoir une telle section et cela demontre un engagement important pour la cooperation regionale en ce qui conceme le developpement politique, social et economique. Il cite en plus d’autres exemples de cooperation entre Vanuatu et la Chine.
16. M. Walter H. LINI, Depute de Pentecote, souleve un Point du Reglement Interieur en demandant si les commentaires portent sur les principes des Projet de Loi ou si les interventions font une campagne de propagande Chinoise.
17. M. Sethy REGANVANU, Ministre des Justice, souligne que la Chine a apporte une contribution importante a Vanuatu.
18. La motion portant adoption du Projet de Loi en premiere lecture est approuvee l’unanimite.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
ARTICLE 1 « RATIFICATION »
19. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Port Vila, veut savoir pourquoi le montant specifie a Particle 1 n’a pas ete exprimd en vatu et demande 1’equivalence en vatu d’un dizieme du montant du pret.
20. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de ^Education, explique qu’un Yuan vaut environ 15 a 16 vatu ce qui signaifie que le montant a payer par en est de 25 millions de vatu.
21. Mme Hilda LINI. Depute de Port-Vila, repete sa question et concemant le montant precise a 1’article 1.
22. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que parce que le pret est accorde par la Chine, le montant est specifie en monnaie chinoise. En plus, a difference du vatu, la monnaie chinoise est reconnue intemationalement.
23. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, ajoute que parce que 1’argent est emprunte en monnaie chinoise le montant doit etre precise en monnaie chinoise, selon l’usage international.
7 24. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, se dit preoccupe par la somme empruntee puisqu’en fin de compte Vanuatu aura a rembourser plus que le montant de 225 millions de vatu.
25. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre de Finances, rassure les deputes que c’est un emprunt sans interet. Il ajoute que le seul facteur qui puisse influencer le montant total de remboursement est la fluctuation de la monnaie nationale (le vatu) et celle de la monnaie Chinoise, le RMB Yuan.
26. Mme H ilda LINI, D eputd d e P ort V ila, i nsiste s ur 1 e fait q ue 1 ’Equivalent e n vatu de 15 000 000 RMB Yuan devrait figurer dans 1’accord de cooperation.
27. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, dit que son gouvemement signera l’accord tel qu’il est, mais il conclut qu’il ne voit pas la necessite de preciser l’equivalent de 15 000 000 RMB Yuan en vatu dans l’accord.
28. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, propose que l’equivalent de 15 000 000 RMB Yuan figure au texte du Projet de Loi etant donne qu’il n’est pas precise dans l’accord.
29. M. Willie JIMMY, M inistre des Finances, affirme qu’il n ’est pas d ’usage de prdciser l’equivalent en monnaie locale d’une devise etrangere dans le texte d’un accord international.
30. L’article 1 est approuve a l’unanimite.
31. L’article 2 «ENTRE EN VIGUEUR » est approuve a l’unanimite.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
32. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de 1’Education, propose que le Projet de Loi soit lu une deuxi&me fois et adopte.
33. La motion portant approbation finale du Projet de Loi est adoptee a 1’unanimity.
34. La stance est suspendue a 9h45, reprend a 10h25.
PROJET DE LOI NO. DE 1995 SLR LES BAUX FONCIERS (MODIFICATION)
PREMIERE LECTURE
35. M. TELUKLUK Paul, ministre des Affaires foncieres, presente le projet de Loi et en expose les motifs.
8 36. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de FOpposition, se referant a 1’expose des motifs estime que la question fonciere n’est pas aussi simple qu’on pourrait croire. Elie est la base meme de la politique a Vanuatu. Les legislations foncieres adoptees par 1 e gouvemement actuel tentent d ’aliener 1 es droits d es proprietaires coutumiers que protege la Constitution. Il est facile d’aliener ces droits quand a aussi contribue a une telle alienation. Ces nouvelles legislations creent une certaine discrimination.
37. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, indique qu’il s’attendait a une telle modification. C’est une bonne legislation pour les legislateurs mais pas pour le proprietaire coutumier. Il remarque que le Ministre n’a rien dit sur les terres situees dans les zones urbaines a creer. Les gens s’inquietent de voir ces legislations s’appliquer en tout point au territoire national.
38. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, indique qu’il a ecoute avec interet les interventions de FOpposition se plaignant de 1’alienation des droits des proprietaires coutumiers. Il remarque que c’est l’ancien gouvemement qui a declare par l’Arrete No. 16 de 1982 tout Port-Vila et Luganville domaines publics. Le gouvemement actuel ne fait qu’indemniser les proprietaires coutumiers depossedes de leurs terres situees dans ces zones urbaines. Il ne fait qu’appliquer Farticle 81 de la Constitution. Certains deputes interpreted mal ou abusiveinent les legislations.
39. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, reconnait que la question fonciere a ete et reste au centre de la politique nationale. Le nouveau Projet de Loi ne permet que F application de la loi sur les titres fonciers en propriete perpetuelle a Port- Vila et Luganville. Ce Projet de Loi est dans Finteret aussi bien des particuliers que des deputes qui devraient declarer leurs interSts. La majorite coniine 1’opposition ont ete parties prenantes de la signature de la Constitution. Le gouvemement ne depossede pas les proprietaires coutumiers de leurs droits mais a prouve qu’il peut aider les depossedes. Les etrangers et eventuels investisseurs apprennent les legislations de Vanuatu avant de venir a Vanuatu. Il rappelle qu’il faut reviser toutes les legislations de baux afin de ne pas declarer publique toute une municipalite.
40. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, rejette le Projet de Loi car il se dit contre F esprit de la loi sur les baux fonciers. Il estime qu’il y a discrimination parce que certains insulaires peuvent acquerir des terres a Port-Vi la et Luganville alors que ceux de Santo et Efate ne le peuvent pas. La Constitution prevoit autrement Facquisition des terres. Il estime que ce Projet de Loi prevoit le debut de Facquisition a nouveau des terres.
41. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, rappelle que le gouvemement actuel s’etait trouve dans Fobligation d’indemniser les proprietaires coutumiers. Il admet que la valeur commerciale de Port-Vila est tres elevee et le pays n’a pas
9 les moyens financiers d’indemniser les proprietaries coutumiers a la juste valeur immobiliere. Le gouvemement a negocie a la melanesienne afin d’unifier la nation.
42. La seance, suspendue a 1 lh30, reprend a 14hl0.
43. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, declare que les principes du projet de loi sont conformes a la Constitution et l’idee que les terres appartiennent et reviennent aux proprietaries coutumiers est maintenue. Il ajoute que le Gouvemement peut acquerir des terres comme il est stipule dans la Constitution, mais il ne doit pas oublier d’indemniser les proprietaries coutumiers. Le gouvemement actuel, grace a ce projet de loi permet aux ni-Vanuatu d’opter soi pour le Titre foncier en propriete perpetuelle soit pour le bail. Le systeme du Titre fancier en propriete perpetuelle n’influence pas du tout les investisseurs etrangers, bien qu’ils ne soient pas autorises a acquerir des terres en propriete perpetuelle. Le gouvemement peut acquerir des terres sur les autres lies sauf qu’il doit engager des negotiations prealables avec les proprietaries coutumiers. Il conclut en rassurant l’Assemblee que son gouvemement veillera toujours a ce que sa politique en matiere fonciere ne porte pas atteinte a la Cour.
44. M. Walter H. LINI, Depute de Pentecote, declare que le systeme de la propriete fonciere perpetuelle va a Tencontre de la Constitution. Son gouvemement a essaye de faire reconnaitre que toutes les terres appartiennent aux proprietaries coutumiers et ne peuvent etre cedees que par le moyen d’un bail. L’ancien gouvemement avait etabli deux offices de gestion fonciere qui avaient pour but de representer les proprietaries coutumiers mais ces deux instances ont etc dissoutes a cause de leur mauvaise gestion et le Service des Affaires foncieres a repris les fonctions de perception des loyers en vue de redistribuer les deniers aux proprietaries coutumiers. Il n’y a jamais eu de projet de Loi visant l’indemnisation des proprietaries coutumiers. Il ajoute que si le Parlement approuve le regime de propriete fonciere perpetuelle’il faut d’abord modifier la Constitution, car dans ce projet de loi le gouvemement ne protege pas les interets des proprietaries coutumiers. Les fonds que le gouvemement de l’UPM a pris pour indemniser les proprietaries coutumiers de Luganville et de Port-Vila etai ent en fait des fonds qui leur appartenaient. Il n’y a aucune preuve que le gouvemement actuel ait organise des reunions avec les proprietaries coutumiers de Port-Vila ou de Luganville. Il est vrai que les terres de ces deux villes ont ete declarees publiques, mais sous le systeme du bail foncier et non pas sous le systeme de la propriete fonciere perpetuelle. Ce Projet de Loi modifiera alors le systeme et creera par la suite des conflits.
45. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santom/Malo, affirme que si on se refere a la Loi de 1994 sur le Titre foncier en propriete perpetuelle, seules quatre categories de terres seront declarees susceptibles d’acquisition sous le regime de la propriete perpetuelle. C’est-a-dire les terres acquises en vertu de la Loi No. 5 de 1992, les terres acquises par les proprietaries indigenes, les terres acquises en vertu de Particle 13 de la Loi de 1994 et les terres acquises par le gouvemement. Il s’oppose aux principes du Projet de loi car il les trouve anti-constitutionnels.
46 M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de 1’Opposition, affirme que sous le regime foncier de l’ancien gouvemement, les terres appartenaient toujours aux
10 proprietaries coutumiers, puisque c ’etait 1 e regime d u b ail. 11 ajoute q u’il y a toujours des demandes d’indemnisation faites par les proprietaries coutumiers, alors que les terres de Port-Vila et celles de Luganville sont deja declarees publiques.
47. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, declare que seule la location des terres est possible en dehors du village d’origine et c’est cela la coutume du pays. La terre est un lieu spirituel. Le regime de la propriete fonciere perpetuelle fera en sorte que les proprietaries coutumiers soient demunis. Elie conclut que le gouvemement de l’UPM met du temps a appliques les lois. C’est bien la preuve qu’il se trouve dans une situation confuse. Elie indique qu’il y a toujours des proprietaries coutumiers qui revendiquent le droit a leur propriete. Il y a toujours d es 1 itiges fonciers a P ort-Vila e 11 e g ouvemement e st i ncapable d e defendre les particuliers ayant acquis des terres a la capitale. Si le regime foncier est inadapte; les citoyens se disputeront les terres. Elie demande si chacun est oblige de convertir son bail en Titre foncier en propriete perpetuelle.
48. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, affirme que cela depend de chaque personne. Il insiste sur le fait que le projet de loi est conforme a la Constitution. Le gouvemement de l’UPM ne fait que reparer les fautes commises pendant les 11 demieres annees en matiere des terres. Il conclut que le produit des baux sera reparti comme suit: 70% reviennent aux proprietaries coutumiers, 20% aux Conseils provinciaux et 10% au gouvemement central.
49. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, affirme que les indigenes de Vanuatu pourront enfin posseder des terres si le projet de loi est approuve. Le gouvemement de l’UPM ne fait qu’apporter des solutions aux litiges qui existent deja concemant les terres. Il demande ce que l’ancien gouvemement a fait pour les proprietaries fonciers d’Efate quand ils ont manifeste pour revendiquer leurs terres. Il ajoute que c’est une moquerie de la part de T Opposition de pari er des droits des proprietaries coutumiers. D’apres la Constitution, le Parlement a le pouvoir d’etablir des lois specifiques pour regir certaines categories de terre. Il existait deja au temps du Condominium des proprietes foncieres perpetuelles. C’est le cas des terres detenues par les gouvemements coloniaux qui sont passees du regime foncier au regime du bail sous le gouvemement du Vanuaaku Pati. C’est le gouvemement de l’UPM qui a pu indemniser les proprietaries coutumiers. Les re venus pro venant de la location des terres de Port-Vila par les etrangers reviendront a l’Etat. Il accuse l’ancien gouvemement de proposer un dedommagement de 50 millions de vatu aux proprietaries coutumiers alors son gouvemement en a propose 300 millions. Il conclut en demandant a l’Opposition de voter en faveur de ce projet de loi, sinon elle courrait a sa perte.
50. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, soutient le projet de loi. Il affirme que le regime foncier mis en place par le gouvemement du Vanuaaku Pati n’etait q u’une m ethode indirecte d e v ol d es 1 oyers r evenant a ux p ropri&aires
11 coutumiers. Il demande ce qui se passera une fois que la dur6e du contrat de bail sera ecoulee et que les proprietaires coutumiers voulant reprendre les terres se trouveront dans 1’impossibilite de d&fommager les locataires de lews ameliorations. Il estime que 1’opposition se moque des habitants d’Erakor, Pango, Ifra et M616. La legislation sur les baux fonciers reste en vigueur ainsi que le systeme de location des terres et 1’opposition ne peut pas prouver le contraire. Les interventions de 1’opposition prouvent qu’elle est incapable d’interpreter la legislation. Elie est hypocrite.
51. La motion portant approbation du Projet de Loi en Premiere lecture est approuvGe par 24 voix contre 20.
52. La stance, suspendue 4 15h35, reprend a 16hl0.
53. La seance est lev6e a 16h 10.
12 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
QUATRIEME LEGISLATURE
PREMIERE SESSION ORDINAIRE DU 1995 DU PARLEMENT
MERCREDI 29 MARS 1995
PRESIDENT : M. Alfred MASENG, Depute de Luganville
PRESENT :
RETARD :
SIEGE VACANT :
1. Le President du Parlement ouvre la seance a 14hl0.
2. M. Louis CARLOT, Depute d’Efate, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce 1 ’ ordre du j our.
PRO JET DE LOI NO. DE 1995 SUR LES BAUX FONCIERS (MODIFICATION)
4 L’article 1 « MODIFICATION DU SOUS-TITRE INTRODUCTIF DU CHAPITRE 163 » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 2 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 1 »
13 5. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, demande ce qu’adviendra au titre de propriete perpetuelle encas de revocation de l’Arrete declarant Port-Vila et Luganville domaine public.
6. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que toute loi ne peut etre abrogee que par une autre Loi.
7. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, rejetant cette reponse repete sa question.
8. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, indique que ce Projet de Loi permet d’appliquer la loi sur les titres fonciers en propriete perpetuelle.
9. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, rejette cette nouvelle reponse estimant que les regions de Port-Vila et Luganville ne sont declarees domaine publics par simple arrete pouvant etre revoque par tout ministre des Affaires foncieres ce qui rendrait caduque les legislations creees par le nouveau gouvemement.
10. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, soutient l’intervention de Willie Jimmy.
11. M. Sela MOLISA , Depute de Santo/Malo, repete les questions de Barak Sope
12. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, estime que la revocation eventuelle de ce arrete n’affectera pas les nouvelles lois.
13. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, soutient Sethy Regenvanu, rappelant que la loi sur les titres fonciers de propriete perpetuelle et ce Projet de loi ne seront pas affectes par une revocation eventuelle de cet arrete.
14. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de I’Opposition, estime que le titre de propriete perpetuelle n’a aucun fondement.
15. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, soutient Willie Jimmy.
16. M. Barak SOPE , Depute d’Efate, repete ses questions.
17. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, accuse I’Opposition de faire perdre du temps et, appuye par M. Carlot, propose de passer au vote.
18. La motion est approuve par 24 voix contre 20.
19. L’article 2 est approuve au vote.
20. L’article 3 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 2 >> est approuve au vote
21. L’article 4 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 4 » est approuve au vote.
14 22. L’article 5 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 5 » est approuvS au vote.
23. L’article 6 «INSERTION DU NOUVEL ARTICLE 12A » est approuve au vote.
24. L’article 7 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 13 » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 8 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 14 »
25. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, demande au ministre d’expliquer 1’expression «charges et incidences implicites et expresses attachees a cette propriete ».
26. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, explique les expressions.
27. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de l’Opposition, demande si les institutions financieres pourraient accepter une hypotheque sur un titre de propriete perpetuelle etant donne qu’au terme de la loi ces institutions en tant que personnes morales ne peuvent par reprendre la propriete sous le regime foncier a perpetuite.
28. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, repond affirmativement.
29. L’article 8 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 9 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 173 »
30. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, demande si un particulier obtient aupres de l’Etat son titre de propriete perpetuelle dans un domaine public.
31. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond affirmativement et remarque que l’opposition se rend compte de son erreur.
32. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, demande si les proprietaries a perpetuite sont en securite.
33. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, repond affirmativement.
34. L’article 9 est approuve au vote.
35. L’article 10 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 10 » est approuve au vote.
36. L’article 11 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 30 » est approuve au vote.
37. L’article 12 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 51 » est approuve au vote.
15 38 L’article 13 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 52 » est approuve au vote.
39 L’article 14 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 54 » est approuve au vote.
40 L’article 15 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTCLE 56 » est approuve au vote.
41. L’article 16 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 57 » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 17 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 58 » .
42. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, demande ce qu’adviendra dans le cas d’une copropriete ou certains titulaires ne sont pas habilites a obtenir un titre de propriete perpetuelle.
43. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premiere ministre, estime qu’il faut se referer a la definition de la loi cadre.
44. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, rejette cette reponse et repete sa question.
45. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, remarque que seul un citoyen indigene a droit a un titre de propriete perpetuelle.
46. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, repete a nouveau sa question en citant l’exemple de la succession dans un couple dont le mari indigene meurt et la femme naturalisee herite de ses biens.
47. M. Serge Vohor RIALUT, Ministre de Tlnterieur, explique que les enfants issus des parents dont seul l’homme est citoyen indigene ont droit a un titre de propriete perpetuelle.
48. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, estime qu’il faudrait reviser la Constitution pour resoudre la question de droit successoral a Vanuatu.
49. L’article 17 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 18 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 60 »
50. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, estime que les banques et les organisations financieres ne peuvent pas accepter une hypotheque sur un titre de propnete perpetuelle
51. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, conseille a l’opposition de s’adresser plutot aux banques.
16 52. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute dePort-Vila, demande si 1 es conditions de cession d’une terre a son ancien proprietaire coutumier sont differentes de cedes appliquees a la cession habituelie.
53. M. Paul TELUKLUK, D epute de Mallicolo, affirme qu’il n’est prevu aucune difference.
54. L’article 18 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 19 «INSERTION DE L?ARTICLE 62A »
55. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Pentecote, demande si les frais de cession sont eleves.
56. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, repond que ces frais dependent.
57. M. LINI Walter H. demande comment on calculera la prime de transfert du bail vers la propriete perpetuelle.
58. M. TELUKLUK explique qu’il faut d’abord remplir toutes les conditions pour pouvoir transferer le titre du bail en propriete perpetuelle.
59. L’article 19 est approuve au vote.
60. L’article 20 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 66 » approuve au vote.
61. L’article 21 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 67 » est approuve au vote.
62. L’article 22 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 68 » est approuve au vote.
63. L’article 23 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 69 » est approuve au vote.
64. L’article 24 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 71 » est approuve au vote.
65. L’article 25 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 72 » est approuve au vote.
66. L’article 26 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 76 » est approuve au vote.
67. L’article 27 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 91 » est approuve au vote.
68. L’article 28 « MODIFICATION DE L’ARTICLE 107 » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 29 « MODIFICATION DE L’ANNEXE »
69. M. LINI Walter demande des eclaircissements sur le droit de 2%.
17 70. M. TELUKLUK repond que le droit de 2% est le droit d’enregistrement.
71. M. ABBIL demande comment on calculera le droit de 2%.
72. M. TELUKLUK explique qu’on prelevera un droit d’enregistrement de 2% et un droit de timbre de 2%.
73. L’article 29 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 30 « ENTREE EN VIGUEUR »
74. M. LINI Walter veut savoir si l’approbation du projet de Loi accelerera Lapplication de la Loi no. de 13 de 1994 sur le titre de propriete perpetuelle.
75. M. TELUKLUK le confirme.
76. L’article 30 est approuv6 au vote.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
77. M. TELUKLUK Paul, ministre des Affaires foncieres, propose que le projet de Loi soit lu et approuve en deuxi erne lecture.
78. La motion portant adoption finale du projet de Loi en deuxieme lecture est approuvee par 24 voix pour contre 20 voix.
79. La stance, suspendue a 15h35, reprend a 16h05.
QUESTIONS ECRITES
80. Le President notant qu’il n’y a pas de reponse ecrite a l’ordre du jour ajoume la seance & 16h05.
18 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
QUATRIEME LEGISLATURE
PREMIERE SESSION ORDINAIRE DE 1995 DU PARLEMENT
JEUDI 30 MARS 1995
PRESIDENT : M. Alfred MASENG, Depute de Luganville.
PRESENT :
RETARD :
SIEGE VACANT :
1. Le President ouvre la seance a 8h40.
2. M. Jimmy SIMON, Depute d’Epi, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce 1 ’ ordre du jour.
DECLARATIONS DES MINISTRES
4. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, prononce une declaration sur les questions bancaires, des jeux d* argent, des taxes, du centre financier et des Medias.
5. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de 1’Opposition, repond a la declaration. Il appartient au gouvemement de s’inquieter de ce que font certaines personnes, particulierement dans les milieux des affaires. Les madias diffusent des informations, qu’elles soient vraies ou fausses. Il existe un systdme judiciaire pour chacun que se sent lese par les affirmations de la presse. C’est a chacun de les exploiter a sa fa?on. L5accusation contre les Medias risque de porter atteinte
19 a la liberte d’expression tant prechee par le gouvemement de coalition. Les prix des denrees import ees sont soumis aux prix du pays d’origine, mais en ce qui conceme la taxe sur le chiffre d’affaires; le client doit payer les 4% appliques au prix de detail. Il paie en tout plus de 8% environ. Il est temps que le gouvemement arrete de proferer des menaces a l’egard des Medias.
6 M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, est heureux d’apprendre qu’Olilian Bank detient une patente commerciale valide. Tous les joumaux quelque soit leur origine ont le droit de diffuser des informations et le Chef du groupe independant de FOpposition se demande si le gouvemement continuera a preserver la liberte d’expression ou non. Quant aux 4% imposes sur les chiffres d’affaires, il se demande si ce ne serait le consommateur final qui serait la grande victime de cette taxe.
7. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, demande si la liberte de la presse existe encore a Vanuatu.
8. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que la presse abuse de la liberte qu’on lui accorde.
9. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, demande quelle est la politique du gouvemement en matiere de la liberte de la presse. Elie desire savoir egalement qui doit payer la taxe de 4%, les commer^ants seulement ou les consommateurs finaux. Elie demande si les 25 millions publies au Trading Post constituent le montant exact des depenses des particuliers dans les jeux du hasard et veut savoir ce que font les banques commerciales pour aider les ni-Vanuatu.
10. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, estime que la premiere question est hors-sujet. La taxe de 4% entre effectivement en vigueur le premiere avril et n’est imposee que sur les frais totaux, Quant aux jeux de hasard, les ni-Vanuatu ne jouent d’habitude qu’avec 1000 vatu ou plus contre les expatries qui jouent avec 50 000 VT, 100 000 VT ou plus.
11. M. Franky STEVENS, Depute de Santo/Malo, presente une modification de la liste des Projets de loi a etudier.
PRO JET DE LOI NO. DE 1995 RELATIVE A LA CONVENTION SUR L’EIJMINATION DE TOUTES LES FORMES DE DISCRIMINATION A L’EGARD DES FEMMES (MODIFICATION)
PREMIERE LECTURE
12. M, Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, presente le Projet de loi et en expose les motifs.
20 13. M, Jimmy Meto CHILIA, Depute d’Efate, felicite le ministre de la Justice et le gouvemement a l’occasion de la presentation du Projet de loi au Parlement. Il indique qu’il soutient le Projet de Loi au nom de la population feminine de sa circonscription qui souhaite que la femme et l’homme aient les memes droits.
14. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, remercie le Ministre pour son explication detaillee et regrette que 1 a Convention ait pris quatorze a ns avant d’etre soumise au Parlement. Elie remercie les Femmes de leur insistance pour que la Convention spit approuv6e sans reserve. Elie espere egalement que le gouvemement preparera un plan National d’action avant de se rendre a la conference de Beijing en septembre.
15. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, regrette egalement que le Projet de loi soit soumis avec tant de retard. Il estime que si la Convention avait ete soumise plus tot, moins d’actes d’agression contre les femmes auraient ete recenses.
16. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, souligne que le Projet de loi constitue une epreuve par chaque ni-Vanuatu. Il mettrait par exemple en question le fait qu’un homme puisse acheter son epouse, la succession patrilineaire des terres et le choix des enfants a envoyer a P ecole. Il indique, en outre, que la convention prevoit obligatoirement la reservation de 30% au moins des sieges au Parlement aux femmes. 11 demande si Vanuatu est pret a accepter ces changements. Cependant il indique qu’il soutiendra ce Projet de loi.
17. M. Onneyn TAHI, Depute de Ambae, felicite le gouvemement de coalition UPM/PDP de la presentation Projet de loi du Parlement. Il souligne que Vanuatu est un pays ayant atteint Page de maturite et il est temps d’approuver ce Projet de loi. Il remarque que Vanuatu devrait suivre Pexemple des pays asiatiques qu’ont ratifie la Convention mais qui conservent toujours leur culture. Il conclut en soulignant qu’il espere qu’il y aura plus de femmes au Parlement, lors de la cinquieme legislature.
18. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, exprime son soutien au Projet de loi. Il indique que NUP, en tant que parti politique, croit fermement aux resolutions contenues dans la Convention. Il reconnait que la convention a ete retenue pendant 14 ans mais explique en meme temps que si elle avait ete approuvee avant, il y aurait toujours des agressions contre les femmes car il n’y a pas de Legislation specifique sur les femmes. Il souligne qu’il est tres difficile par une Convention de dieter ce que doit faire une culture ou une Eglise.
19. La seance est suspendue de 10h30 allh.
20. M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Ministre de PInterieur, soutient le Projet de loi et remercie le ministre de la Justice et des Affaires Feminines pour avoir pris l’initiative de le presenter au Parlement. Il dit qu’il est important de ratifier cette
21 convention pour mieux reconnaitre le role des femmes dans la societe en constante evolution. Il ajoute que les di verses formes de discrimination existent dans d’autres pays de la region mais ne sont pas presentes a Vanuatu. 11 y a deja l’egalite dans le domaine de 1’education nationale et la scolarite primaire gratuite ne fait que renforcer cela. Il continue en affirmant que cette convention permettra au gouvemement de legiferer dans ce domaine. Il demande aux institutions telles que les eglises, les chefs coutumiers, les mouvements des femmes et de la jeunesse de travailler en commun pour sensibiliser la population aux questions d’egalite et d’elimination de la violence contre les femmes. Les jouent un role important qui est celui de mere de famille et done de la nation et on doit encourager les femmes a participer d’avantage aux activites politiques, economi ques et religieuses du pays.
21. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, felicite le ministre de Affaires feminines et soutient le projet de loi qui permettra d’ameliorer la condition feminine. Il affirme qui nous devons lutter pour assurer la paix et rharmonie au sein de la famille. Vanuatu a deja pris 1’initiative avant la signature de cette Convention e n 1 uttant p our 1 ’elimination d e 1 a v iolence c ontre 1 es f emmes. Il ajoute que le gouvemement doit se restructurer afin d’eviter toute discrimination a l’egard femmes. Il reconnait que certains domaines ne sont pas vises par cette Convention mais Vanuatu doit aider 1’ONU a mieux rediger ce texte afin que l’exces de liberte ne cree pas trop de prejuges. 11 espere que les maris etrangers de femmes ni-Vanuatu pourront etre naturalises ni-Vanuatu.
22. La seance, suspendue a 11 h30, reprend a 14hl0.
23. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, soutient ce Projet de loi et felicite le gouvemement d’avoir presente le Projet de loi et les organisations feminines d’y avoir contribue. 11 estime que cette legislature marque un toumant historique malgre la diversite culturelie et sociale. 11 faut cependant modifier certaines coutumes et pratiques pour y supprimer 1 eurs elements discriminatoires. Tout pays signataires de la Convention doit legiferer selon ses dispositions pour l’appliquer afin que les hommes et les femmes aient les memes droits.
24. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, soutient ce Projet de loi et reconnait que Vanuatu doit suivre les autres pays qui accordent les memes droits aux hommes et aux femmes, mais estime qu’il faut du temps avant que la hierarchie sociale et les relations entres les hommes et les femmes se modifient. Il se demande si les femmes de Tanna heriteront des droits de possession des terres coutumiers de leur pere au meme titre que leurs freres.
25. M. Jack HOP A, Depute de Ambrym, estime que l’egalite existant quand ce Projet de loi entre l’homme et la femme variait selon l’ile et les coutumes. L’homme et la femme jouent respectivement les roles qui leur reviennent dans la societe. Il remercie les femmes ayant contribue a la preparation de ce Projet de loi.
22 26. M. Jerethy RASEN, Depute de Mallicolo, soutient ce Projet de loi et rappelle que l’homme et la femme jouent les roles qui leur reviennent dans la societe. Il souligne toutefois que les femmes n’accederont jamais a certain pouvoirs tels que le droit du namagi et les pouvoirs du chefs. 11 espere que ce Projet de loi ne servira pas d’arme de conflit.
27. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, apprecie les diverses interventions, mais souligne que bien que les femmes doivent avoir certains droits, il faut adopter les Convention avec des reserves car tout ne peut pas changer a la fois pourtant.
28. M. Willy JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, soutient le Projet de loi avec reserves, car meme la Bible prevoit une place particuliere pour les femmes qu’est differente de celle des hommes. A son avis plus de 90% de la population estimerait que ce Projet de loi ne profitera qu’a une poignee de femmes bureaucrates.
29. M. Robert KARIE, Depute de Tongoa/Shepherds, emet les memes avis que Willie Jimmy. A son point de vue, les femmes ont depuis Tindependance obtenues les memes connaissances. Il faut bien informer les villageoises sur cette Convention et eviter que les femmes bureaucrates n’en profitent.
30. M. Romain B ATICK, Ministre d e 1 ’Education, s outient c e P rojet d e 1 oi a vec reserve, car a son avis a l’arrivde des Europeens, les femmes et les hommes avaient leur place dans la societe et il faut retablir ce respect suite a l’occidentalisation.
31. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, accepte les soutiens avec reserves de tous les deputes et affirme que la Convention vise toutes les formes de discrimination. 11 appartient au gouvemement de Vanuatu d’accepter les points d e v ue i ntemationale e t p uis 1 egiferer end etail e t p rendre 1 es m esures necessaires conformement A sa diversity culturelle. Ce Projet de loi permet de repondre aux appels des victimes de la discrimination. Il explique que l’etablissement d’une commission est du ressort des Nations Unies. Il demande a toutes les institutions de Vanuatu de se preoccuper des questions soulevdes par le Projet de loi.
32. La motion portant adoption du Projet de loi en I^e lecture est approuvee a 1’unanimite.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
ARTICLE 1 « RATIFICATION »
23 33. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de 1’Opposition, parlant en soutien au Projet de loi, indique qu’il ne faut pas forcer les femmes a prendre la citoyennetd de leur man.
34. M. NATAPEI Edward veut savoir si le gouvemement peut soumettre rapidement un rapport aux Nations Unis
35. M. Sethy REGANVANU, Ministre de la Justice, repond qu’une fois la Convention ratifiee, le premier rapport sera soumis aux NU pour leur informer des dispositions de la Convention que Vanuatu pourra appliquer immediatement et celles dont l’application serait retardee par la pratique de certaines coutumes.
36. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, precise que Vanuatu applique deja une grande partie des dispositions contenues dans le Convention, mais d’autres necessitent une legislation nationale specifique.
37. M. W alter LINI, D epute d e P entecote, v eut s avoir c ombien d e p ays o nt d eja ratifie la Convention et pourquoi Vanuatu doit la ratifier rapidement.
38. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, precise qu’il ignore le nombre exact des pays ayant ddpi ratifie la Convention mois declare que six ans auparavant qu’une centaine de pays 1’avaient deja ratifiee. Il souligne qu’en tant que membre, Vanuatu doit ratifier la Convention.
39. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, pense qu’il y aura plus de pression provenant du gouvemement des EtatsUnis un fois que Vanuatu approuvera la Convention.
40. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, souligne que les Etats-Unis ne sont pas responsables de la mise en vigueur des conventions des Nations Unies.
41 Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Pentecote, declare que Vanuatu est le deuxieme pays dans le Pacifique a ratifier la Convention apres les Samoa occidentals; Elie veut savoir si le droit au conge de matemite peut etre impose au secteur prive.
42 M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, indique que Vanuatu n’a pas encore de legislation prevoyant le conge de matemite.
43 L’article lest approuve a 1’unanimite.
44. L’article 2 «ENTREE EN VIGUEUR » est approuvi a 1’unanimite.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
24 45. M. Sethy REGENVANU, Ministre de la Justice, propose que le Projet de loi soit lu et approuve en deuxieme lecture.
46. La motion portant adoption du projet de loi en 1CTC lecture est approuvee a l’unanimite.
47. La seance est suspendue a 15h25.
25 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
OUATRIEME LEGISLATURE
PREMIERE SESSION ORDINIARE DU 1995 DU PARLEMENT
VENDREDI 31 MARS 1995
PRESIDENT : M. Alfred MASENG, Depute de Luganville
PRESENT :
RETARD :
SIEGE VACANT :
L Le President ouvre la seance a 8h3 5.
2, M. Song KEASIPAI, Depute de Tanna, dit la priere.
3, Le President annonce 1 ’ordre du j our.
PROJET DE LOI NO. DE 1995 RELATIVE AUX CHAMBRES DE COMMERCE ET DE INDUSTRIE DE VANUATU
PREMIERE LECTURE
4, M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, presente le Projet de loi et en expose les motifs.
5, Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Pentecote, se plaint de voir que Luganville n’a pas sa propre Chambre de commerce et d’industrie. Elie ne voit pas comment cette instance aidera les commcr^ants et les petites gens. Elie demande comment seront payes les 2% et si ]’adhesion est obligatoire.
26 6. M. Willie JEMMY, Ministre des Finances, estime que ces questions ne seront prises en compte qu’a F etape de FExamen en Commission.
7 M. Barak SOPE , Depute d’Efate, soutient ce Projet de loi meme s’il ne votera pas pour son approbation. Il felicite le Ministre de pouvoir presenter ce Projet de loi sur une instance qui contribuera enormement au developpement economique. Ces chambres constitueront un lieu ou s’informeront tous les commergants de toute categorie et de tout secteur. Il y constate toutefois de lacunes.
8. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, recormait que ce Projet de loi permettra aux ni-Vanuatu de mieux connaitre ce Projet de loi et de mieux connaitre les rouages commerciaux. Il constate que FEtat demarrera les activites des chambres de commerce et d’industrie avec 10 millions de vatu, mais se demande si ces instances survivront qu’avec les prelevements de 2%. Il s’inquiete du fait que certaines provinces sont petites et ont peu de ressources. Il se demande si les nouvelles chambres fonctionneront mieux que Fancienne.
9. M. Serge VOHOR, Ministre de l’lnterieur, estime qu’il est bon de creer un tel organisme afin d’organiser le monde des affaires. Cet organisme constituera le centre et le moyen d’information de ce secteur. Il peut permettre aux commergants de se munir de moyens ; de faire face a certaines difficultes. En creant cet organisme le gouvemement n’a aucune mauvaise intention.
10. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de FOpposition, apprecie les divers points de vue. Il reconnait que ce nouvel organisme rassemblera, formera et informera les commergants de divers secteurs qui pourront ainsi mieux reussir ou avoir plus de chances de reussir. Il craint cependant que les grosses entreprises ne profitent de cet avantage pour dominer les petites.
11. M. Jerethy RASEN, Depute de Mallicolo, soutient ce Projet de loi car il repond a la politique du gouvemement actuel en matiere de decentralisation et formation des ni-Vanuatu aux affaires. Il regrette que ce Projet de loi n’ait pas ete adopte plutot.
12. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, estime qu’il s’agit d’une bonne initiative, car cet organisme permettra d’initier les ni-Vanuatu aux affaires. Emettant les memes inquietudes que Donald Kalpokas, il prcfere que F adhesion soit facultative. A son avis la deduction de 2% sur la patente commerciale entrainera une augmentation de cette taxe et Fetouffement de petites affaires. Il demande pourquoi Luganville et Sanma ont une seule Chambre.
13. M. Onneyn TAHI, Depute de Ambae, soutient ce Projet de loi car il reflete une bonne orientation. Cet organisme permettra aux comm erg ants en milieux ruraux de s’informer et s’instruire sur toute question commerciale et industrielle et
27 resoudre certains echecs. Cependant il craint que les grosses compagnies ne profitent de cette facilite pour dominer et etouffer les petites entreprises.
14. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, soutient ce Projet de loi mais se demande pourquoi un tel organisme public serait controle par le secteur prive. 11 se demande en outre si ce Projet de loi vise tous les secteurs, y compris les peches, la sylviculture etc.
15. M. Sethy REGENVANU. Ministre de la Justice, dit que ce projet de loi constitue une suite a la Loi sur la Decentralisation. Il soutient le projet de loi et remercie le Ministre des Finances pour avoir eu l’initiative de la presenter, car il permettra une bonne organisation au sein de la Chambre de Commerce. Il estime que tout commer^ant doit y adherer afin que chacun puisse en beneficier. Il annonce que le Projet de Loi permettra aux ni-Vanuatu de penetrer d’avantage dans les secteurs commerciaux. Il conclut que les interets des investisseurs etrangers et locaux seront enfin pris en compte grace a ce projet de loi.
16. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, se dit enfin satisfait du fait que le gouvemement se penche sur un probleme qui existe depuis bien longtemps malgrc que ce projel de loi n’apporte pas de solutions a ce probleme. Il se demande en quoi ce Projet de loi aidera les hommes d’affaires ni-Vanuatu puisqu’il existe encore des ecarts dans le domaine Commercial. C’est pourquoi Ie PNU s’opposera au Projet de loi. L’ancienne chambre de commerce etait entierement dominee par les expatries. Elie a cesse ses activites a cause du manque de fonds et de legislation. Il estime qu’avec la situation actuelle les expatries seront encore maitres dans le domaine des affaires et pour un bon moment encore. Il se dit de$u de voir que Luganville et la Province de Sanma partageront une seule Chambre de Commerce.
17. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, se dit surpris d’entendre des commentaires de la part de 1’Opposition alors qu’elle devrait admettre et reconnaitre I’importance des Chambres de Commerce. Il affirme que les Chambres de Commerce favorisent plus d’investissements et creeront plus de revenus pour le gouvemement. Ce sont des institutions importantes du fait qu’elles ont un role de conseiller commercial. Il affirme que les autres Etats insulaires ont des Chambres de Commerce alors que Vanuatu n’en a pas. Il espere que beaucoup de gens dans le monde des affaires soutiendront 1’etablissement des Chambres de Commerce. Le gouvemement ne doit pas s’ingerer a la gestion des Chambres de Commerce, mais plutot les considerer comme une source de revenus. Il ajoute que son gouvemement a redonne l’elan au systeme des cooperatives qui avaient des problemes dus a un mauvais systeme et essaie en meme temps de promouvoir le tourisme grace aux Consuls honoraires bases a l’etranger. Il estime que son gouvemement doit reunir les ni Vanuatu et les expatries dans 1’industrie et les affaires pour aider au developpement economique. Les nouvelles Chambres de Commerce doivent vite etablir des relations avec les autres Chambres de Commerce de la region
28 pour promouvoir le commerce inter-regional. Il conclut qu’il faut profiter de Faide et du savoir faire des expatries dans le domaine du Commerce et de l’economie.
18. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, declare qu’il est du meme avis que le Premier ministre, mais se dit de^u d’entendre le parti PNU s*opposer au projet de loi qui permet de commercialiser les produits locaux a l’exterieur. Il ajoute que les Chambres de Commerce protegeraient le commerce interieur et les societes industrielles du pays comme les interets des investisseurs. Il conclut que l’ancien gouvemement du Vanuaku Pati au cours de ses onze ans au pouvoir n’a pas essaye d’etablir un Projet de loi contre celui-ci qui vise egalement le tourisme. Il precise qu’il y a deux reunions annuelles et les representants de chaque Province doivent participer aux reunions. Il conclut en precisant que le Projet de loi est soumis au Parlement pour demontrer la 1*engagement du gouvemement a la protection des entreprises privees.
19. La motion portant adoption du Projet de loi en I4" lecture est approuve par 24 voix contre 6 et 14 abstentions.
20. La seance, suspendue a 10h35, reprend a 1 lhlO.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION
ARTICLE 1 « DEFINITIONS »
21. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, veut savoir si Luganville est consideree comme region.
22. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond affirmativement.
23. L’article 1 est approuve au vote.
24. L’article 2 « ETABLISSEMENT DES CHAMBRES » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 3 « OBJECTIFS ET FONCTIONS DES CHAMBRES »
25. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, concemant l’alinea (a) du paragraphe (3) de l’article 3 demande si les roles des institutions telles que le programme de developpement des entreprises rurales et des Chambres ne seront pas en conflit entre eux.
26. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que des telles institutions travailleront main dans la main avec les Chambres pour assurer le succes des entreprises.
29 27. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, veut savoir si le Projet de loi ne causera pas de problemes aux institutions telles que le Syndicat agricole, le Bureau du Tourisme, etc.
28. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, souligne que le Projet de loi ne concerne que les activites commerciales.
29. L’article 3 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE « AFFILIATION »
30. M. Iolu ABIL, Depute de Tanna, demande des precisions sur 15affiliation lorsque un membre part s’installer dans une autre region.
31. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, explique que si un membre se deplace d’une Region, par exemple de TAFEA a SHEFA, il sera automatiquement considere comme membre de SHEFA.
32. M. Jimmy Meto CHILI A, Depute d’Efate, veut savoir comment la Chambre de commerce peut aider les petites entreprises,
33. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, explique que la Chambre aidera les petites entreprises en leur foumissant des programmes de formation.
34. M, Jimmy SIMON, Depute de Epi, veut savoir si de petites entreprises peuvent etre membres de la Chambre.
35. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, precise que toute entreprise payant une patente commerciale est membres de la Chambre de Commerce.
36. La seance est suspendue a 1 lh30 et reprend a 14h 10.
QUESTIONS ORALES
37. M. Onneyn TAHI, Depute de Ambae, demande la progression de la construction des routes a Ambae. Il demande pourquoi les ponts ne sont pas construits et pourquoi il n’y aucun rouleau pour mieux darner les routes.
38. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, repond que les constructions sur les traces prevus sont presque achevees, elles ont ete ralenties par les pluies. La c onstruction d es p onts e st r emplacee p ar celle d e gues a c ause d es couts. Quant au rouleau, il est en panne, de plus le sol est trop meuble et sujet aux intempdries.
39. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de 1’Opposition, demande ce que fait 1’Etat pour hisser au niveau international les examens et diplomes de Vanuatu.
30 40. M. R omain B ATICK, M inistre d e 1 a E ducation, r epond q ue 1 e g ouvemement etudie actueHement une methode pour rehausser au niveau international les diplomes afin de permettre aux etudiants quittant le secondaire d’acceder facilement a des universites etrangeres. Les etudiants passent actueHement un examen sanctionne par un diplome regional.
41. M. Louis CARLOT, Depute d’Efate, demande si les detenteurs de fusils confisques durant les troubles de 1988 peuvent esperer retrouver leur arme feu.
42. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, repond que la police retient certaines armes a feu, parce qu’elles ne sont pas en regie. II a demande a la police de retoumer celles en regie a leur proprietaire apres examen approprie de leur dossier.
43. M. Jack HOPA, Depute d’Ambrym, demande l’etat de progression de la construction de 1’aeroport du Nord Ambrym et quand il sera ouvert.
44. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, repond que la construction progresse bien et s’achevera bientot. L’ouverture aura lieu par la suite.
45. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, demande si les ecoles privees peuvent obtenir des equipements scolaires aupres du CRDP.
46. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de LEducation, repond qu’avec leur budget et subvention les ecoles de mission peuvent s’acheter des equipements aupres du CRDP.
47. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si tous les squatters du lotissement de Freshwind ont ete prealablement avises d’evacuer les lieux.
48. M. TELUKLUK Paul, ministre des Affaires Foncieres, repond que le gouvemement a donne a bail le terrain a l’investisseur.
49. M. ABBIL Ioulu, depute de Tanna, demande si le bateau MV. Prince II a commence a acheter et commercialiser les aliments locaux au lieu de convoyer du coprah des lies.
50. M. VOHOR Serge, ministre du Commerce, repond que le bateau Prince II a achete du coprah et du cacao aux lies aux prix offerts par les docks de l’OCPB a Luganville et Port-Vila. Il ajoute qu’il commencera a acheter les produits locaux pour la commercialisation apres les Elections.
51. M. BATIK Blaise, depute d’Ambrym, demande quand on commencera la construction des routes a l’Est d’Ambrym.
31 52. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, repond que les fonds ne sont pas encore disponibles.
53. M. Jimmy Meto CHILIA, Depute d’Efate, demande pourquoi le gouvemement a accorde 2 permis d’exploitation de bois a Malakula.
54. M. Thomas FARATTA, Ministre de la Agriculture, repond que le gouvemement n’a accorde aucun nouveau permis d’exploitation, la presse ne fait qu’embrouiller le public.
55. M. Derek LULUM, Depute de Banks, demande si le nombre des sieges parlementaires de Torba sera augmente.
56. M. Charles NAKO, Ministre de 1’Interieur, repond que le gouvemement n’a encore pris aucune decision a ce sujet.
57. M. Joseph KALO, Depute de Emae/Shepherds, demande si le systeme d’election applique durant les provinciates sera utilise pour les elections legislatives.
58. M. Charlie NAKO, Ministre de 1’Interieur, repond negativement.
59. M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute des Autres Iles du sud, demande si le gouvemement prend des mesures pour arreter la pratique de double enregistrement des electeurs.
60. M. Charles NAKO, Ministre de 1’Interieur, affirme ntetre pas au courant de cette pratique.
61. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, ajoute que les auteurs peuvent etre poursuivis en justice.
62. M. Samson BOE, Depute de Ambae, demande ou est-ce qu’on paie les patentes de compagnies maritimes.
63. M. W illie JI MM Y, M inistre d es Finances, repond q ue c’est d ans 1 a p rovince d’activite de la compagnie.
64. M. Elson SAMUEL, Depute de Mallicolo, demande si les TP construiront un pont sur la riviere Pankumu a Mallicolo.
65. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, repond qu’il faut d’abord effectuer des etudes de faisabilite.
32 66. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, demande quand le gouvemement indemnisera les victimes des troubles du 16 mai 1988.
67. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, repond que le gouvemement n’a rc^u jusqu’a ce jour que peu de demandes d’indemnisation suite a ces troubles.
68. M. Demis LANGO, Depute de Paama, demande quand le telephone de Paama sera installe.
69. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, repond que le projet de telephone de Paama est inclus dans le programme d’installation de telephone en milieu rural.
70. M. Job BULEWU, Depute de Pentecote, demande si les routes du sud Pentecote seront reparees et a quoi serviront les equipements non utilises.
71. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, repond que le projet de reparation des routes couvre la tranche Pangi-Melsisi. La saison des pluies ralentit les travaux. Il demande au depute d’inciter les habitants de sa region a autoriser l’extraction des roches servant a la construction de ces routes. Certaines personnes s’opposent egalement a la construction des routes.
72. M. A lick H OPMAN, D epute d e P ort-Vila, d emande p ourquoi 1 e N ambawan Bottle Shop a retire un container du quai sans payer les droits de douane.
73. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que tout importateur peut retirer des marchandises du quai et les stocker dans un lieu lui coutant moins cher en attendant de regler les droits de douane. C’est une pratique courant et conforme a la loi.
DECLARATIONS DES DEPUTES
74. M. Allan BULE, Depute de Pentecote, fait une declaration au sujet de la chute du niveau des ecoles primaires a Pentecote. (Pour tout exemplaire, s’adresser au Bureau du Secretaire General du Parlement.)
75. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, fait une declaration concemant le souci des proprietaries coutumiers a propos de la politique gouvemementale en matiere fonciere et l’enregistrement des electeurs dans sa circonscription. (Pour tout exemplaire, s’adresser au Bureau du Secretaire General du Parlement.)
76. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, fait une declaration au sujet du role de la femme dans la societe, l’elimination de la discrimination a l’egard des femmes et l’etat actuel du service de la Sante qui touche la sante des femmes et des enfants. (Des exemplaires sont disponibles au Bureau du Secretaire General du Parlement.)
33 77. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, fait une declaration au sujet des deputes. (Pour tout exemplaire, s’adresser au Bureau du Secretaire General du Parlement.)
78. M. Franky STEVEN, Depute de Santo, fait une declaration concemant le developpement a Vanuatu. (Des exemplaires sont disponibles au Bureau du Secretaire General du Parlement.)
79. M. Jerethy RASEN, Depute de Mallicolo, fait une declaration au sujet de la mort de l’ancien President de la Republique de Vanuatu, Fred Kalomoana Timakata. (Pour tout exemplaire, s’adresser au Bureau du Secretaire General du Parlement.)
80. La seance est suspendue i 15h45
34 PARLE WENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
QUATRIEME LEGISLATURE
PREMIERE SESSION ORDINAIRE DU 1995 DU PARLEMENT
LUNDI 03 AVRIL 1995
PRESIDENT : M. Alfred MASENG, Depute de Luganville
PRESENT :
RETARD ;
SIEGE VACANT :
1. Le President ouvre la seance a 8h40.
2. M. Demis LANGO, Depute de Paama, dit la priere.
3. Le President annonce l’ordre du jour.
DECLARATION DES M1MSTRES
4. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, prononce une declaration sur certaines questions foncieres et les exploitations forestieres de Mallicolo. (Texte joint en annexe)
5. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de l’Opposition, repond qu’il a ecout6 a la fois avec perplexity et interet cette declaration. Il accuse les proprietaires coutumiers de Mallicolo d’etre a l’origine de cette situation regrettable. Us n’auraient pas du accepter en premier lieu l’exploitation forestiere. En maticre fonciere, l’ancien gouvemement a d eja r etoume 1 a m ajeure p artie des t erres d omaniales & 1 eurs proprietaires coutumiers. L’ancien gouvemement n’avait jamais en l’intention de voler des terres mais de les acheter.
35 6. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, s’inquiete d’entendre le ministre devoiler certains noms qui auraient du rester confidentiels. Il appartient au gouvemement d’aller expliquer aux villageois les malentendus. En matiere fonciere, les habitants de Loltong ont decide que ces terres deviennent zone urbaine au lieu de domaine public mais le gouvemement doit abroger l’arrete le declarant public.
7. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, demande qui sont les personnes ayant perdu leurs titres de bail et 1’accusant d’en etre responsable. Il veut egalement savoir ce que signifie le titre perpetuel.
8. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Ministre des Ressources Naturelles, rappelle qu’il repondra a 1 a p remiere q uestion d ans 1 ’apres-midi. E n r eponse a 1 a d euxieme question, il explique que le detenteur d’un titre de bail peut devenir proprietaire a perpdtuite d’une parcelle situee a Port-Vila ou Luganville.
9. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, demande pourquoi le ministre des Ressources Naturelles fait une declaration sur les questions sylvicoles qu ne relevent pas de son autorite.
10. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Ministre des Ressources Naturelles, repond qu’il prononce cette declaration en tant que depute de Malekula.
11. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, demande ce qui adviendra a un bail expirant entre une province et un proprietaire coutumier. Il veut savoir si le gouvemement a le pouvoir de retenir le terrain.
12 M. Paul TELUKLUK, Ministre des Ressources Naturelies, repond que la legislation n’est pas claire a ce sujet.
13. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de la Education, prononce une declaration sur les questions touchant l’education nationale. (voir Annexe)
14. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de l’Opposition, estime que cette declaration fait reflechir. La population a souvent tendance a croire que l’Etat ferait tout. Il faut apprendre aux gens a se debrouiller pour faire fonctionner leurs ecoles. Il faut retablir le droit de scolarit6, tres faible soit-il. L’exemple de 1’ecole qui a organise la collecte des fonds pour reparer ses salles de classes pourrait servir de reference. Il faudrait etudier a nouveau comment fonctionnaient les ecoles des missions d’autrefois. Elies avaient les meilleures methodes.
15. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, rappelle que les ecoles de la province de Penama sont en mauvais etat a l’exception de certaines comme 1’ecole secondaire d e M elsisi. Le g ouvemement d oit f aire q uelque c hose. L’ecole d e Potovro est en grave penurie d’equipements scolaires. C’est beau de parler du
36 soutien aux ecoles francophones, mais il faut le prouver. L’ecole secondaire de Lolopoepoe demontre cette negligence totale.
16. La seance, suspendue a lOhOO, reprend a 10h35.
PRO JET DE LOI NO. DE 1995 RELATIVE AUX CHAMBRES DE COMMERCE ET D’INDUSTRIE DE VANUATU
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION (suite)
17. L’article 4 « AFFILIATION » est approuve au vote,
ARTICLE 5 « DROITS DE VOTE »
18. M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute des Autres lies du sud, exige des eclaircissements au sujet des associations qui gerent plusieurs societes. Il se demande si plusieurs personnes peuvent representer les differentes societes.
19. M. W illie JIMMY, M inistre d es F inances, e xplique q ue c hacune d es s ocietes detenant une patente commerciale a droit a un seul representant.
20. L’article 5 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 6 « MEMBRES ASSOCIES »
21. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, demande plus d’explications sur le terme « associates membership » sur la version anglaise du texe.
22. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, cite le cas du C.N.F.V. qui n’a pas de patente mais exerce une activite commerciale peut avoir un representant au sein de la Chambre de Commerce.
23. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si le droit de membre associe de la Chambre de Commerce peut etre accorde aux Associations des ni- Vanuatu.
24. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, declare que l’article 6 vise les domaines connexes des articles precedents tels que l’association des agriculteurs et l’association des pecheurs.
25. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, dit qu’il ne voit pas le genre de membre qui peut etre legalemen t exempte d’une patente commerciale mais qui exerce une activite commerciale.
37 26. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si le droit de membre associe peut etre accorde a un groupe ou a une association telle que F Association des taxis ou celle des autobus.
27. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond affirmativement, a condition que ce groupe doit legalement exempte de detention de patente commerciale et qu’il ne soit pas deja represents au sein de la Chambre de Commerce.
28. L’article 6 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 7 << COT1SAT1ONS »
29. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de 1’Opposition, demande les raisons pour lesquelles la Loi doit tout de suite entrer en vigueur plutot qu’a partir du mois de janvier 1996.
30. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, demande si les 2% correspondent a la cotisation seront per^us par les gouvemements provinciaux.
31. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, demande concemant l’article 7 (1) si un proprietaire de plusieurs affaires doit payer une cotisation par entreprise. II demande egalement dans quelle province le proprietaire de plusieurs commerces situes dans differentes parties du pays doit payer sa cotisation.
32. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que la date d’entree en vigueur est juste, puisqu’un conseil provisoire veillera aux travaux necessaires avant le lere janvier 1996. Il ajoute que les 2% correspondant a la cotisation ne peuvent etre per?us par une autre instance sans une modification des dispositions de la Loi (CAP 173).
33. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, qu’il n’a pas eu de reponse a sa deuxieme question.
34. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, dit que le lieu de paiement depend de l’endroit ou la societe mere est implantee et de la nature activites commerciales, mais on ne peut etre membre qu’une seule fois.
35. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, demande si on peut toujours rester membre apres Fexpiration de la patente commerciale.
36. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que la qualite de membre expire en meme temps que la patente.
37. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, demande si une personne qui possede deux societes differentes doit payer deux cotisations a la Chambre de Commerce.
38 38. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, dit que l’objet des cotisations est de financer les Chambres de Commerce.
39. L’article 7est approuve au vote
40. L’article 8 « AUTRES SOURCES DE F1NANCEMENT >> est approuve au vote,
ARTICLE 9 « 1NVESTISSEMENT DES FONDS »
41. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, au sujet de l’investissement des fonds des Chambres de Commerce demande s’il existe deja une loi qui regit la creation des societes judiciaries.
42. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, declare qu’il appartient au Conseil d’Administration de decider de la gcstion de ses fonds.
43. L’article 9 est approuve au vote
44. L’article 10 « COMPTES ET C’ONTROLE DES COMPTES » est approuve au vote.
45. L’article 11 « PREVISIONS ANNUELLES » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 12 « UTILISATION DES COTISATIONS ET AUTRES FONDS »
46. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, demande, concemant l’article 12 (2)(9), ce que signifie le centre de formation et de conseils aux entreprises.
47. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, explique que c’est le centre ou la formation a lieu. Il ajoute que 50% de toutes les cotisations seront utilises pour l’administration du centre de formation et de Conseil aux entreprises.
48. M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute des Autres lies du sud, demande si les dispositions de l’Article 12 (2) (6) couvrent aussi les frais de deplacement pour les reunions extraordinaires du Conseil National.
49. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, dit qu’il appartient au Conseil d’Administration d’en decider.
50. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, demande des renseignements sur les conseils juridiques a foumir aux Chambres de commerce.
39 51. Willie JEMMY, Ministre des Finances, declare que le conseil en entreprise a ete pris en charge par la Chambre de Commerce de Noumea. Les conseils juridiques seront foumis par l’Attomey General.
52. L’article 12 est approuve au vote.
53 L’article 13 « CONSEIL NATIONAL DES CHAMBRES DE COMMERCE ET D’INDUSTRIE » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 14 « PRESIDENT DU CONSEIL NATIONAL »
54. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, met en question la procedure de nomination du Secretaire, du Tresoriers et du controleur.
55. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, indique que les procedures de nomination prevues par le Projet de Loi sont tout a fait raisonnables.
56. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, demande si l’election du president est ouverte a tous les citoyens ou reservee aux citoyens indigenes.
57. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, affinne que le mot «Indigene » est trop discriminatoire.
58. L’article 14 est approuve au vote.
59. L’article 15 « SECRETARIAT DU CONSEIL NATIONAL » est approuve au vote.
60. L’article 16 « REUNIONS DU CONSEIL NATIONAL » est approuve au vote.
61 L’article 17 « NOM DU CONSEIL NATIONAL » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 18 « ORGANISATION DES CHAMBRES DE COMMERCE ET D’INDUSTRIE »
62. M. Jimmy Meto CHILIA, Depute d’Efate, dit qu’il y a une erreur de traduction et qu’il manque des mots en fran^ais.
63. La seance est suspendue a 1 lh30, reprend a 14h20.
64. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, affinne que le terme « personne morale » utilise dans la version fran^aise est correcte.
40 65. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, se referant au paragraphe 1), estime qu’il y a discrimination a l’egard des femmes. Il veut supprimer les mots « un au moins sera une femme » et les remplacer par « 50% » au moins seront des femmes.
66. M. Edward Nipake NATAPEI, Depute des Autres lies du sud, sereferant au paragraphe 5) se demande pourquoi ne pas prevoir du personnel permanent.
67. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repondant a Sela Molisa, affirme que ce sont les representants des femmes qui ont insiste pour qu’ « un au moins soit une femme » Peu de femmes se lancent dans les affaires. Repondant a Edward Natapei, il indique que les paragraphes 4) et 5) sont complementaires.
68. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, se referant aux paragraphes 4) et 5) demande pourquoi certains membres ont un mandat de 1 an et d’autres 2 ans.
69. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que tous ont un mandat de 2 ans, seuls les presidents, secretaires et tresoriers font exception.
70. L’article 18 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 19 « ORGANISATION DE LA CHAMBRE CAPITATE »
71. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, se referant a l’alinea a) du paragraphe 2) demande si les femmes faisant le marche 4 Port-Vila ou Luganville peuvent devenir membre d’une Chambre de Commerce et d’Industrie.
72. M. B arak S OPE, D epute d ’Efate, d emande s i 1 es d eux m embres d ’un couple ayant chacun une patente commerciale peuvent tous deux devenir membres d’une Chambre de Commerce et d’industrie.
73. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond affirmativement a Barak Sope. A Mme Hilda Lini, il affirme que toute decision a ce sujet appartient a la discretion d’une Chambre de Commerce et d’industrie.
74. M. V incent B OULEKONE, D epute d e P entecote, s e r eferant a 1 ’alinea b) d u paragraphe 2) estime que 1’expression « par un quelconque groupe representant les femmes a Vanuatu » peut creer des conflits entre les groupes de femmes.
75. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, reconnait son inquietude, mais affirme que toute representante d’un groupe quelconque de femmes peut etre choisie.
76. M. Sela MOLISA, Depute de Santo, exprime son etonnement du fait du paragraphe 5) qui permet an ministre plutot qu’au Parlement d’approuver des modifications de cet article.
41 77. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, affirme que ce paragraphe permet a la Chambre de prendre des decisions sans recourir a chaque fois au Parlement.
78. L’article 19 est approuve au vote.
79. L’article 20 « REGISTRE » est approuve au vote.
80 L’article 21 « CADRES ET EMPLOYES » est approuve au vote.
81. L’ article 22 « CONTROLE DU GOUVERNEMENT » est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 23 « DISPOSITIONS TRANSITOIRES »
82. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, se referant au paragraphe 2), demande pourquoi seule la Chambre de la capitale recoit une subvention.
83. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, repond que c’est la premiere Chambre a creer. Cette institution permettra de creer les Chambres provinciates.
84 L’article 23 est approuve au vote.
85. L’article 24 « REGLEMENTS » est approuve au vote.
86. L’article 25 «INTERDICTION D’UTILISER LE NOM » est approuve au vote.
87. L’article 26 «D’AUTRES ASSOCIATIONS PEUVENT AGIR INDEPENDAMMENT » est approuve au vote.
88. L’article 27 « ENTREE EN VIGUEUR » est approuve au vote.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
89. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, propose que le Projet de Loi No. de 1995 relative aux Chambres de Commerce et d’Industrie soil lu une deuxieme fois et approuve.
90. La motion est approuvee par 22 voix pour, 6 contre et 13 abstentions.
PROJET DE LOI NO. DE 1995 SUR LE REGROUPEMENT DES DROITS DE DOUANE A L’IMPORTATION (MODIFICATION)
PREMIERE LECTURE
42 91. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, presente le Projet de Loi et en expose les motifs (Voir Annexe).
92. M. Sela M OLIS A, Depute de Santo, est heureux de voir le gouvemement faire des efforts pour reduire les taxes conformement a l’avis de 1’Opposition. Il souligne que le gouvemement prouve qu’il a eu tort de qualifier d’insignifiante la taxe de 4% du chifffe d’affaires en novembre. En voila la preuve puisque le gouvemement prevoit une perte de 249 millions de vatu, 1’opposition en prevoit plus. Le gouvemement doit controler etroitement les commervants afin qu’ils ne profitent pas de la situation. A son avis les prix ne commenceront a baisser qu’en juillet et, encore, si le service du controle des prix s’active un peu plus. Le rapport Neil Warren a recommande la suppression de certaines taxes et la creation d’autres. 11 se joint au Ministre pour appeler tous les commenpants a reduire leurs prix.
93. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, apprecie ce Projet de Loi qui a vu le jour grace aux critiques constructives de Topposition. Il peut s’agir la de bonbons pour les elections qui approchent. Il se joint au Ministre pour appeler les commer^ants a reduire leurs prix. En ce qui conceme les 4% de taxe sur le chiffre d’affaires il faut reviser la taxation des importateurs grossistes.
94. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Port-Vila, rejette le Projet de Loi car il prouve que le gouvemement ne respecte aucune logique. Il aurait du presenter ce Projet de Loi au meme moment que celui de la taxe sur les chiffres d’affaires. A son avis il faut taxer severement les supports des images indecentes. Ce Projet de Loi n’a qu’un but de propagande electorale. L’UPM essaie de se racheter de ses erreurs.
95. M. Willie JIMMY, Minstre des Finances, regrette que les deputes ne lisent pas le rapport Neil Warren. La taxe sur le chiffre d’affaires est une taxe indirecte. Le manque de cooperation de la part des compagnies a tendance a contrecarrer les efforts du Gouvemement. Le ministre apostrophe Mme Hila Lini au sujet des ses interpellations.
96. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, demande a Willie Jimmy de retirer ses propos.
97. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, retire ses propos et demande que Mme Hilda Lini arrete de faire des commentaires pendant qu’il a la parole, Il ajoute que la Commission de censure ne releve pas de la Loi sur les droits de douane, mais d’une autre loi. Il ajoute que les previsions de recettes qu’il avail donnees lors de son allocution budgetaire etaient de 350 millions de vatu mais, avec les 4% de taxe sur le chiffre d’affaires, cette prevision se trouvera depassee.
98. La seance, suspendue a 15h35, reprend a 16hl0.
43 QUESTIONS ORALES
99. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, donne les informations demandees par Barak Sope en debut de seance a propos de deux terrains qui se trouvent a Freshwater derriere la boulangerie « la Parisienne ». Il dit que le premier terrain dont le titre de propriete est 300/900/90 appartenait a Henri Charles Naul (dit keke) avant l’independance, c’est-a-dire donne le 16/08/79. Mais apres l’independance ce terrain etant enregistre sous le numero 11/OE31/025 c’est a- dire depuis le 10/04/86. Il ajoute que le deuxieme terrain appartenait a Roger Silas et etait enregistre avant l’independance sous le numero 11/OE31/026.
100. M. Robert KARIE, Depute de Tongoa/Shepherds, interroge Romain Batick sur l’avenir de l’Ecole Secondaire de Nambagasale tombee en desuetude.
101. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, dit que l’ecole de Nambagasale est mal situee et qu’il faut trouver un nouveau site a l’abri des vents. C’est pourquoi le Ministere projette de construire une nouvelle ecole secondaire sur un site ou il y a de un bon approvisionnement en eau et qui soit a l’abri des vents.
102. M. Onncyn TAHI, Depute d’Ambae, demande quand la population rurale recevra des emissions televisees et quand il y aura un programme local de television.
103. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, affirme que la prochaine etape de developpement de la television prevue pour le mois de juin/juillet couvrira la province de Malampa quant a la mise en place d’un programme local, il faut attendre le mois de juin de cette annee.
104. M. Jeffrey LAUHA, Depute de Tanna, demande pourquoi plus de 1000 eleves n’ont pas regagne les bancs des ecoles a la date pr6vue.
105 M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, dit que cela est du a une insuffisance budgdtaire au niveau des salaires du corps enseignant. Il rassure le depute que le ministere a demande un budget supplementaire pour resoudre le probleme. Autrefois les postes vacants etaient occupes par des suppieants.
106. M. Joseph CALO, Depute de Emae/Shepherds, demande ou sont les postes de teleradio de Tongariki et Buninga.
107 M. Charley NAKO, Ministre de l’Interieur, dit qu’il ne sait pas ou ils sont.
108. M. Jack HOP A, Depute de Ambrym, demande si les deux postes vacants de l’Ecole du Sud-Est d’Ambrym seront converts par le budget supplementaire demande par le ministere de l’Education.
44 109. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, repond affirmativement.
110. Mme Hilda LINI, Depute de Pentecote, demande pourquoi la Commission de Revision de la Constitution ne se reunit pas et veut savoir la date a laquelle la Commission de Censure a delibere pour la demiere fois.
111. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, dit que la premiere question releve de la competence du President du Parlement. Quant a la seconde, il declare qu’il ne salt pas la date de la demiere reunion de la Commission de censure.
112. M. Willie JIMMY, Ministre des Finances, ajoute que la Commission de censure se reunit frequemment puisque le Service des douanes saisit souvent des articles portant atteinte aux bonnes moeurs.
113. M. Sela MOLISA, demande s’il est vrai que les Presidents des Conseils provinciaux touchent des salaires eleves. Il demande aussi Taction que le ministre de l’Interieur a Tintention de prendre dans des cas de remuneration excessive.
114. M. Charley NAKO, Ministre de l’Interieur, dit que le salaire du President d’un Conseil provincial est regi par la Loi. Si un President touche un traitement illegal, il s’agirait d’un detoumement de fonds et le ministre peut prendre les mesures necessaires pour y remedier.
115. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, demande ce qui se passera si en depit du soutien des parents d’eleves et il y ait des resultats mediocres aux examens scolaires.
116. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, dit qu’il appartient aux Conseils d’ecoles de faire un rapport au ministere de l’Education, s’ils constatent qu’il y a de mauvais resultats aux examens.
117. M. Charley NAKO, Ministre de l’Interieur, demande quand est-ce que le dispensaire de Mele sera ouvert.
118. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, annonce qu’il y a des problemes au niveau du contrat, qu’il y a des ingerences politiques et que le Directeur a ete suspendu.
119. M. Derek LULUM, Depute de Banks/Torres, demande Taction que doit prendre le ministere de l’Education a 1’egard du Directeur de l’Ecole Secondaire d’Arep.
120. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, dit que 1’ancien Directeur ne peut plus regagner son poste a Arep.
45 121. M. Barak SOPE, Depute d’Efate, demande qui occupe actuellement les terres auxquelles Paul Telukluk a fait allusion en debut de seance.
122. M. Paul TELUKLUK, Depute de Mallicolo, declare que ces terres ont ete donnees a des insulaires de Tanna en 1987, lorsque Barak Sope Etait ministre des Transports. Les dispositions nEcessaires avaient Ete prises par l’Office de gestion fonciere de Port-Vila mais la documentation est difficile a tracer.
123. M. Jerethy RASEN, Depute de Malicollo, demande qui etait paye le salaire d’un secretaire prive d’un president de Conseil provincial. Il demande aussi si le salaire qu’il touche est prevu par la loi.
124. M. Charley NAKO, Ministre de l’lnterieur, rappelle que la Loi ne prevoit pas le poste d’un Secretaire prive du president du Conseil provincial mais le Conseil peut embaucher un secretaire privE lorsqu’il dispose des fonds nEcessaires.
125. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de l’Opposition, demande si le ministre de l’Education ne devrait pas faire un appel public aux parents d’ElEves leur demandant de participer d’avantage aux activitEs des Ecoles, vu qu’ils ne font que peu.
126. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, dit que tout parent est responsable en ce qui conceme l’Education de ses enfants.
127. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, demande a chacun de jouer son rdle en ce qui conceme 1’education de ses enfants.
128. M. Allan BULE, Depute de Pentecdte, demande si les travaux de construction a Pentecote des routes non achevees seront termines et si le projet d’Enbok figure sur la liste des travaux prioritaires.
129. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, affirme qu’apres Melsisi, les travaux se poursuivront jusqu’a Bwatnapni mais qu’il n’y de fonds pour 1’ instant
130. M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, demande s’il appartient au gouvemement ou a la Mission Catholique de reparer les ecoles detruites par le dernier cyclone sur Pentecote, specialement a Melsisi.
131. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, dit que c’est la mission Catholique qui s’occupe de FEcole Secondaire de Melsisi grace a la subvention accordee par 1’Etat. Il signale qu’on a fait une visite a cette Ecole et un rapport a ete fait.
132. M. Romain BATICK, Ministre de l’Education, demande quand est-ce que la construction de la route du sud-est a l’ouest d’Ambrym sera commencEe.
46 133. 133. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, dit que ce projet doit etre finance par les fonds provenant des accords de LOME IV. 11 ajoute que les fonds sont disponibles, que des Etudes de faisabilite ont ete faites et les travaux debuteront cette annee.
134. M. Walker LINI, Depute de Pentecote, demande pourquoi le personnel du projet de Cacao de Metensel n’est pas paye depuis quatre mois. Il demande aussi s’ils seront payes ou pas.
135. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, declare que c’est la premiere fois qu’il en entend parler.
136. M. Thomas B. FARATIA, Ministre de T Agriculture, ajoute qu’il existe des problemes financiers et la societe ne paie aucune dividende A l’Etat, bien que celui-cii lui accorde beaucoup de subventions. 11 ajoute que la societe peut etre privatislee. 11 conclut qu’il s’assurera que les employes touchent leur salaire.
137. La searice est suspendue & 17h00
47 PARLEMENT DE LA REPUBLIQUE DE VANUATU
QUATRIEME LEGISLATURE
PREMIERE SESSION ORDINAIRE DU 1995 DU PARLEMENT
MARDI 4 AVRIL 1995
PRESIDENT : M. Alfred MASENG, Depute de Luganville
PRESENT :
RETARD :
SIEGE VACANT:
1♦ Le President ouvre la seance a 8h45.
2. M. Jimmy Meto CHILLA, Depute d’Efate, dit la priere.
3. Le President du Parlement annonce 1 ’ordre du jour.
DECLARATIONS DES MINISTRES
4. M. Amos BANGABITI, Ministre des Transports, fait une declaration au sujet des vehicules de conduite a droite importes par la societe « S.K. LOGGING » et des initiatives privees par le gouvemement pour trouver des fonds a l’etranger en vue de financer les projets de developpement. (Pour tout exemplaire, s’adresser au Bureau du Secretaire du Parlement)
5. M. Donald KALPOKAS, Chef de l’Opposition, affirme qu’il est tres alarmant d’entendre parler des problemes d’exploitation forestiere et de materiel importe. Il demande au gouvemement de prendre les actions necessaires pour empecher
48 de telles sortes d’activites qui resultat d’irregularites administratives. 11 trouve qu*il est important de parler de construction des routes, mais c’est un sujet souvent exploite a des fins de propagande politique surtout a l’approche des elections. Il ajoute qu’il est difficile d’obtenir des fonds des accords de LOME et le gouvemement ne doit pas se baser sur ce fait pour accuser ces agences de » cooperation de ne pas avoir libere les fonds au moment propice. 11 conclut qu’il « faut d’abord trouver des fonds avant de parler de construction de routes.
6. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, se dit surpris d’entendre la declaration du ministre des Travaux Publics. Il se dit de?u de voir que certains investisseurs et compagnies d’exploitation forestiere ne respectent ni les lois du pays ni le gouvemement de coalition. 11 ajoute que cela demontre bien que le gouvemement de Coalition reste encore confus dans sa politique de libre entreprise et perd son temps a parler de l’importation illegale de vehicules de conduite a droite. Le gouvemement devrait se debarrasser de ces vehicules pour montrer qu’il existe d es 1 ois et qu’on n e d oit p as 1 es n 6gliger. C oncemant 1 a route d’Enkul sur Pentecote, aussi bien l’ancien gouvemement que le gouvemement actuel n’ont jamais trouve des fonds pour la construire. Il declare aussi que le ministre des TP ne devrait pas accuser le representant de la CEE a Vanuatu. Il devrait s’exprimer d’une fa^on diplomatique dans ce domaine. Il conclut que les fonds qui sont disponibles aujourd’hui ont ete negocies par le gouvemement du « Vanuaaku Pati »
PROJET DE LOI No. DE 1995 SUR LE REGROUPEMENT DES DROITS DE DOUANE A L’IMPORTATION (MODIFICATION)
PREMIERE LECTURE(suite)
M. Onneyn TAHI, Depute de Ambae, soutient les principes du projet de loi, que le gouvemement a pris une bonne decision pour enfm venir en aide aux habitants des zones rurales qui sont victimes de l’inflation. Il remercie le ministre des Finances et le gouvemement d’avoir pris cette initiative qui fait en sorte que les prix de certains produits de base seront reduits. Il demande les raisons pour lesquelles les produits du marche local coutent aussi cher alors que les vendeurs ne pay ent aucune contribution a l’Etat,
M. Vincent BOULEKONE, Depute de Pentecote, dit que le FU s’abstiendra de voter pour ce projet de Loi. Il demande au gouvemement de ne pas se laisser influencer par les commer^ants et d’ecouter la plainte de la population rurale. Il ajoute qu’avec ce projet de Loi le gouvemement perdra environ 250 millions de ses revenus et ce vide sera combld par 1’argent provenant de la cession des parts que le gouvemement avail a la Banque d’Hawai et de la saisie des fonds faite recemment. 11 estime que les reductions ne devraient toucher que certains produits. Il demande pourquoi il y a une reduction des droits d’importation des boissons alcoolisees telles que le whisky. Il conclut qu’avec ces reductions le
49 gouvemement n’aura plus assez de fonds pour assurer ses services a la population.
9. M, Serge VOHOR, Ministre de 1’Economic, soutient les principes du projet de Loi et remercie le gouvemement pour avoir pris 1’initiative de le presenter, car tout le monde en beneficiera. La taxe de 4% sur le Chiffre d’affaires, l’annulation de la taxe sur la personne physique, la sante et l’education gratuites ne traduisent que la politique de l’UPM en matiere fiscale. Il ajoute que les prochains gouvemements seront obliges d’adapter ce systeme, car il n’y a plus d’autres issues ni d’autres sources de revenus. Pour survivre dconomiquement, il faut adapter d’autres systemes fiscaux. Il rejette l’idee que ce sont les hommes d’affaires qui obligent le gouvemement a reduire les droits de douane a l’importation et rappelle que ces droits sur les boissons alcoolisees ont ete augmentes et non pas reduits. Il indique que ces reductions seront compensees par la taxe de 4% sur le chiffre d’affaires. Il conclut qu’au temps du gouvemement du « Vanuaaku Pati » les produits de base etai ent plus chers qu’aujourd’hui, en plus, la taxe sur la personne physique, les droits de scolarite et les services de Sante payants et le bas prix du coprah representaient de lourds fardeaux pour la population rurale.
10. M. Iolu ABBIL, Depute de Tanna, dit que les projets de Loi de ce genre auront des consequences lourdes sur le budget. 11 ajoute que le gouvemement actuel devrait remercier l’ancien gouvemement pour ses parts sociales aupres de la Banque d’Hawai. Il regrette de voir que le gouvemement actuel vient de ceder ces parts et qu’il ne recolte que les fruits du travail de l’ancien gouvemement. Il demande pourquoi la loi sur la taxe sur le chiffre d’affaires (4%) n’entrera en vigueur qu’en avril alors que les consommateurs la parent depuis trois mois deja. Il conclut qu la taxe de 4% sur le chiffre d’affaires n’est pas la politique de l’UPM, mais elle ete adaptee seulement apres que le Dr warren ait recommande la formule selon laquelle les reductions des droits de douane a l’importation seraient compensees par celle-ci.
11. M. Keasipai SONG, Depute de Tanna, soutient les principes du projet de loi et remercie le gouvemement d’avoir pris 1’initiative de le presenter. II ajoute que ce projet de loi est le signe que le gouvemement assure de meilleurs services a la population. Il conclut en disant que le fait de voter contre ou de s’abstenir equivaut au soutien a Tin flation.
12. M. Walter LINI, Depute de Pentecote, declare que NUP votera contre le projet de loi qui indique clairement que le gouvemement a peur sur le plan financier vu qu’il n’a pas de situation fmanciere stable. Il estime que le gouvemement est instable tout comme ses finances. Les resultats que produira ce Projet de loi viendront avec les elections. A son avis le President de l’UPM preche une politique dont il ne connait pas les rouages. Le gouvemement tente de tuer la poule aux oeufs d’or et la vache a lait; tout en ignorant si Tanna se porte bien economiquement, il declare que tout le nord du pays est touche par le desastre
50 provoque par T administration de l’UPM. 11 estime que d’ici le jour des elections legislatives 70% des entreprises, dont 8% des commenjants chinois, auront ferme leurs portes.
13. La seance, suspendue a 1 Ohl0, reprend a 10h40.
14. M. Maxime CARLOT, Premier ministre, soutenant le Projet de loi, rappelle que son gouvemement a decide de reduire les droits d’importation sur les produits de premiere necessite. En prenant ses fonctions, son gouvemement a constate un etat des lieux lamentables. Le pays manque d’infrastructures pouvant permettre un meilleur developpement en tout secteur. Le nouveau gouvemement a du proceder a des reformes en vue de rationaliser les depenses publiques. Il a modifie les relations avec les organisations et les pays etrangers afin d’obtenir plus d’aide. Quant au 4% preleves sur les chiffres d’affaires, il accuse certains commer^ants prelevant publiquement les 4% de pratiquer du vol. Plusieurs pays pratiquent cette taxe, ainsi a Fiji elle s’eleve a 10%. Il accuse 1’Opposition d’etre anti-patriotique, mais reconnait q ue 1 e NUP e st 1 ibre des ’opposer a 1 a baisse des prix. Il fait l’eloge de certains commer^ants qui sont prets a suivre la politique du gouvemement. Il reconnait egalement que le gouvemement en tout lieu et en tout temps a toujours ete un mauvais entrepreneur. Il reconnait en outre qu’Air Vanuatu a ete creee par I’ancien gouvemement mais c’est son gouvemement qui 1 ’a r entabilisee. Son gouvemement essaiera de trouver une solution pour les entreprises d’Etat malades. Pour les provinces, le gouvemement leur redistribue annuellement 5% de son budget. C’est une premiere. Il appartient maintenant a c haque p rovince e t p arti q ui 1 a d irige d e prouver ses capacites. A propos de la Banque d’Hawai, le Premier ministre rappelle que le gouvemement revend des actions qu’il a obtenues gratuitement. La Banque pourra ainsi avoir les mains libres d’operer. Ce Projet de Loi permettra aux plus demunis des ni-Vanuatu de s’acheter au moins quelque chose. Le Premier ministre assure que le gouvemement ameliorera les infrastructures nationales, soit a l’aide des fonds europeens ou locaux.
15. La seance est suspendue a 1 lh30, reprend a 14hl 0.
16. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, dit qu’il soutient les propos de Serge Vohor et Premier ministre en reponse aux questions de 1’Opposition mais se dit de$u de voir que Walter Lini fait preuve d’une attitude negative. Il affirme que certains commerces font deja des reductions de prix de certains produits de base alors que ce Projet de loi n’est pas encore public au journal officiel. Il demande aux Deputes de verifier l’etat des finances du pays aupres du gouvemeur de la Banque de la Reserve et du Directeur du Service des Finances avant de declarer au Parlement que le Vanuatu affronte actuellement une crise. Il ajoute que la taxe sur le chiffre d’affaires rapportera suffisamment de revenus pour permettre au pays de mieux assurer des services aupres d public. Il conclut en affirmant que le gouvemement se soucie du sort de la population, du fait qu’il ait
51 augmente le salaire minimum et 1’indemnite de logement et reduit les droits de douane a 1’importation.
17. La motion portant approbation du Projet de Loi en premiere lecture est adoptee par 22 voix pour et contre 14 voix.
EXAMEN EN COMMISSION PLENIERE
18 L’article 1 <<<
Article 2 « MODIFICATION DES TAUX DU DROIT DE TIMBRE DE L’ANNEXE I»
19. M. Walter LINI, ministre de la Justice, se demande si les droits de douane a l’importation des boissons alcoolisees et du savon ont ete retires.
20. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, explique au Chef du PNU que les droits de douane a l’importation ont, au contraire ete augmentes afin de proteger les produits locaux.
21. L’article 2 est approuve au vote.
ARTICLE 3 « ENTREE EN VIGUEUR »
22. Mme. Hilda LINI, Depute de Pentecote, demande si le prix des produits actuellement en vente seront reduits et maintenus une fois que la loi sera publiee au Journal officiel.
23. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, dit que tous les prix correspondant aux produits non dedouanes avant 1’entree en vigueur du Projet de loi seront reduits conform emen t a la nouvelle loi.
24. M. Serge Vohor RIALUTH, Premier ministre, confirme qu’il y aura une application immediate de la loi une fois qu’elle sera en vigueur.
25. L’article 3 est approuve au vote.
DEUXIEME LECTURE
26. M. Willie JIMMY, Depute de Port-Vila, propose que le Projet de Loi soit lu une deuxieme fois et adopts.
27. La motion portant approbation finale du Projet de Loi est adoptee par 22 voix pour et 17 voix contre.
52 28. La Premiere Session Ordinaire du Parlement de 1995 est cldturee a 14h30.
53 IMPORTANT NOTICE
The records upon which these minutes are based were produced prior to the creation of the Hansard Office in March 2003. The records do not appear to be complete in all cases. Documents required as annexes were either not submitted by Hon. Ministers and Members concerned or have been misplaced by the Parliament Secretariat prior to the approval of these minutes by Parliament on 25th November 2004.
AVERTISSEMENT
Les documents, dit connexes, grace auxquels la redaction de ces proces-verbaux a ete possible ont ete produits anterieurement a la creation du Bureau d‘Hansard en mars 2003. Il est a rappeler ici que les documents qui doivent etre incorpores en tant qu’Annexes n 'ont soit, jamais etesoumis au Secretariat du Parlement par les Ministres ou deputes responsables, soit que le Secretariat les ait negliges par erreur de classement ou d’archivage avant I'approbation de ces proces-verbaux par le Parlement le 25 novembre 2004.