Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

THURSDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 1947

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Financial Arrangements, &:c., Bill. [6 NoVEMBER.] Questions. ll89

THURSDAY, 6 NOVEMBER, 1947.

The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (Mr. Mann, ) took the chair as Deputy Speaker at 11 a.m.

QUESTIONS.

HOTEL LICENCE, MEANDARRA. Mr. RUSSELL (Dalby) asked the Attorney-General- " In view of his statement on 4th instant that an inspector of the Licensing Commis­ sion had reported that virtually there were only two goats and a dog at Meandarra, 1vill he kindly authorise me to make an inspection of the report in question~'' Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich) re­ plied- '' This was a iigure of speech and could not be taken as literally correct. Police reparts are coniidential and not open to inspection.''

Bus TRANSPORT FOR SCHOOL CHILDREN. Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba), for Mr. LOW (Cooroora), asked the Secretary for Public Instruction- '' In reference to the free rail passes granted to Rural and High School pupils, will he kindly give consideration to the granting of a similar concession to such pupils who have to use bus services to attend those' schools, in order to place all pupils on the same footing in regard to essential transport for educational purposes?'' Hon. H. A. BRUCE (The Tableland) replied- '' As previously announced in this House, the whole question of road transport of school pupils is receiving consideration.''

C.S.I.R. AX:U' STATE EXPERIMENTAL FARMS. :&Ir. AIKENS (Mundingburra) asked the Secretary for Agriculture and Stock- '' 1. Will he inform the House of the nature and scope of the agricultural investigations and experiments proposed to be undertaken in conjunction with the C.S.I.R. on the State Government experi­ mental farms in the Ayr districH '' 2. Will he instruct his officers to seek the co-operation of farmers' and other organisations in the area with a view to securing advice and acquiring any know­ ledge of local or other conditions which may assist in conducting such investigations and experiments~'' Hon. H. H. COLLINS (Cook) replied- '' 1. The nature and scope of the investi­ gations and experiments to be undertaken in conjunction with the Council for Scien­ tiiic and Industrial Research at Ayr are as follows :-(A) Main Objectives: The Papers. 1190 Questions. [ASSEMBLY.] "3. Will he take immediate steps to study of pasture and fodder crop produc­ ensure that these requests an-d claims are tion in the Burdekin Valley, under irriga­ immediately given the most careful tion. (B) Initial Investigations:. (a) p;re­ liminary observation under grazmg w1th consideration~'' selected grasses and legumes not included in (c) ; (b) study of fodd<=r crops---;-both Hon. T. A. FOLEY (Normanby) replied- grasses and legumes-for the reg10ns; " 1. Letters dated 9 August, 1947, and ('c) to determine the value (under grazi_ng) 11 September, 1947, ad~ressed to th~ of selected grass-legume mixtures as rrn­ manager and signed by var10us _member~ of gated pasture in the Burdekin Valley. the staff of the State Coal Mme, Collms­ '' 2. This is a standing instruction to ville were received by the mine manager all State field officers handling investiga­ and' forwarded to the Supervisor of State tional and experimental work.'' Coal Mines Brisbane. The first letter was an applicat:io~ for adjustment of salaries of COLLIN SVILLE·SCOTTVILLE ROAD. staff members equivalent to the increase of 3s. per day granted under the award Mr. PATERSON (Bowen) asked the to day wage employees as from 4 August, Treasurer- 1947 by the Coal Industry Tribunal. The '' 1. In view of the fact that road tl·ans­ seco~d letter dealt with the same matter and port is the only means of transport between also asked for an interview with the Supel:­ Collinsvi!le and Scottville and in view of visor, preferably at Collinsvill~. The. apph­ the urgent need to improve the amenities of ca tion fo•r an increase in salanes eqmvalent residents in country areas, will he give to the award increase granted to day vmge sympathetic consideration to the need to employees was considered favourably and have the Collinsville-Scottville road gazetted salary increases of 15s. per week as from under the Main Roads Act~ 4 August 1947, were granted on 3 Novem­ '' 2. If this road were gazetted, what ber 194 7 to the engineer0 two under­ would be the approximate annual cost to the =~agers,' the overman-rope splicer, the Main Roads Commission~ electrician, and the surveyor. No '' 3. What, in detail, are the reasons for equivalent increase was granted to the previous refusals to gazette this road~'' clerical staff. The mine manager was advised on 3 November of the increases Hon. J. LARCOMBE (Rockhampton) granted. replied- '' 2. Yes. On 4 November, 1947. This '' 1. An application for the gazettal of letter enclosed a new and comprehensive the road from Collinsville to Pelican Creek, log of wages and conditions claimed by Yia Scottville, is at present under con­ the staff members. The rates of wages, sideration by the Main Roads Commission. &c., sought are very considerably in excess '' 2. The cost of the work would depend of existing rates. The claims made are upon the nature of the work agreed upon receiving consideration. ootween the Council and the Commission, and on the apportionment of such cost. "3. See 1 and 2 above." '' 3. Previously the case for gazettal of this road, on the basis of service to the PAPERS. community and need fo·r works, was insuffi­ cient to give it priority over other The following paper was laid on the table, applications.'' and ordered to be printed:-

SALARIES AND CoNDITIONs, CoLLINSVILLE Report of the Agricultural Bank for the STATE MINE. year 1946-1947. Mr. PATERSON (Bowen) asked the The following papers were laid on the Secretary for Mines- table:- '' 1. Did the manager of the Collinsville Orders in Council under- State Mine receive letters dated 9 August The Lessees Relief Acts, 1931 to 1902. and 11 September, 1947, from the two The Pu•rchasers of Homes Relief Act£, under-managers and other members of the staff, asking for an increase in their salaries 1930 to 1932. or wages and for an interview with the The FinanCial Emergency Act of 1931, Supervisor of the State Coal Mines to place the Financial Emergency Relief Exten­ before him their views on the salaries and sion Act of 1932, and the Law of conditions of the staff at the Col!insville Distress and Other Acts Amendment Mine~ Is it a fact that, up to 31 October Act of 1934. last, no reply was sent~ If so, why were The Financial Emergency Act of 1931, these letters not acknowledged~ the Financial Emergency Relief Exten­ '' 2. Has the Supervisor of the State Coal sion Act of 1932, and the Contracts Mines received a letter dated 31 October, of Sale of Land Act of 1933; 1947, from the staff employees of the extending the provisions of those Acts Collinsville mine complaining about their to 31 December, 1948. salaries and conditions and placing before The Supreme Court Act of 1921. him their log of claims on wages and conditions of employment~ What action Regulations under the Navigation Acts, has been taken regarding this letter~ 1876 to 1939 (23 October). Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1191

SUPPLY. I have here also a report of an addres'S delivered to a gathering in Sydney, New South Wales. It is in printed form, in a RESUMPTION OF COMMITTEE-ESTIMATES­ paper called ''The Witness,'' and it sets out SEVENTH AND EIGHTH ALLOTTED DAYS. the personal experience of the visitor to one (Mr. Devries, Gregory, in the chair.) of our prison farms. These are matters that can be studied by hon. members themselves.

EsTIMATES-IN-CHIEF, 1947-1948. The a·mount under this vote shows an increase of £4,020 in s•alaries and a decrease of £2 465 in contingencies, a net increase of DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE. PRISONS. £1,555. Additional officers are provided f_or at the Comptroller-General's office (1), Ens­ Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ bane (5), and Townsville (4), whilst the Attorney-General) (11.12 a.m.): I move- staff at Rockhampton has been reduced by one a'nd at Marburg by three. The institu­ '' That £73,627 be granted for tion at Marburg now comes under the Depart­ ' Prisons. ' ' ' ment of Health and Ho:qJ.e Affairs and is run This vote is considerably in excess of the as a home for inebriates. The basic-wage amount appropriated last year, and I hope and award increases account for the balance that hon. members opposite will not keep of the increase in s-alaries. During the last us as long a's they did the other dayi running financial year two tractors wer~ bought f~r from Colorado Springs to Banff, Buffalo, and use at Palen Creek and Nummbah. Th1s other places. accounts principally for ~he de~rease. in the amount required for contmgencies this year. This is an important vote. The money will These tractors are used in the hauling of be expended in both corrective and reform timber. It was found very difficult to get measures. The question of prison reform and the timber out of the mountains by means management has been before the public eye of horses and the tractors are doing useful for a considerable time, and we have obtained excellent reports on the ~atter, some of which work. have come from the Umted States. Vote agreed to. I took the opportunity of visiting Victoria an_d New South Wales and inquiring into the PuBLIC CuRATOR. pnson systems there. I found that the autho­ Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ rities there have been no more successful than Attomey-General) (11.19 a.m.): ! move- we have been in dealing with prisoners. Actu­ for 'Public ally, they have had a good deal of trouble ''That £2,900 be granted with their prisons in both States, although Curator.' '' they are in advance of to the The vote is £471 in excess of last year's extent that they have made use of the educa­ expenditure. _The incre~se is m~inly due to tional systems in both States in an endeavour pa:yment of mcreases m salanes, brought to educate some of the more youthful about by increases in the ba's'ic wage. The prisoners. After going into the whole matter, greatest expenditure of the Public Curator's they found that most of the prisoners in all office is, of course, from trust funds. States. of Australia were men of very little The Public Curator's office at the present ~ducati~n, and th~y felt that if young lads time is a fairly large one, with branches ~n m particular receive proper education they Rockhampton Townsville, mid Cairns. It _rs develop a better outlook on life and have more proposed to ~stablish agencies or branches m chance of making good than they otherwise some of the larger towns of the State, start­ would. ing off at Toowoomba a21d Ipswich at the The ''Sunday Mail'' has taken this matter beginning of the year anu gradua~ly exten~­ up and interviewe_d some of the chaplains of ing activities as we get the reqmred sta:tt. the Queensland pnson. It published an article The Public Curator's office has become very headed, ''They saw the stars bevond the popular because of the splendid service it bars' '-we all know the old couplet about gives. the two ~en who looked out of the prison bars, llon. T. A. FOLEY (Normanby-Secre­ one seemg mud and the other seeing the tary for Public Lands) (11.20 a.m.): I stars. want to compliment the Public Cura~or. an?­ The question of outlook, of course has a his staff on the splendid work that this msti­ good deal to do with the. reformation ~f these tution has carried out from its inception. men. I do not want to take up the time of Recently I had occasion to call u-pon . t_he the Committee in reading the whole of these Public Curator and ask him to make mqmnes articles, as hon. members can read them for with the object of recovering some money themselves. First of all, we have a record that was due to me in WBstern Australia. lt of the Reverend S. Colla'rd, who is in charge was a complicated matter but the Public of the William Pow£11 Home, Oxley. Then Curator had no difficulty at all in carrying there are the remarks of Brigadier Turner out the preliminary negotiations and having of the Salvation Army, and the Reverend the m>ttter successfully adjusted. Thousands Father Butler, the Roman Catholic chaplain. of similar inquiries are conducted by the All these gentlemen point out that much good Public Curator and his staff every day and can be done by creating a better outlook valuable help is given to a tremendous num­ all!-ongst the prisoners and giving them some­ ber of people which but for the existence of thmg to look forward to on their release. the office would not be available to them. 1192 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply

The Public Curator's Office is one of the will persist in dying intestate, their estates finest insti~utions that the Labour Government have to be administered by the Public Curator have ever set up in the State and is indeed fairly an-d justly according to law. Conse­ a splendid illustration of wha't can be done quently it is useless for any beneficiary to by nationalisation, as it were, provided complain to members that the Puhlic Curator always that you have the right man at the is distributing the estate unfa1r!y. On the head and an efficient staff to carry out the other hand, if a person makes out a will he work entrusted to them. On almost every may, if he so desires, appoint, the Public occa'sion we have been fortunate in having Curator, or any person or organisation as his the right man at the top and in having a executor and give direcbons for the distribu­ splendid service from that department. I tion of his money or property as he wishes. have heard complaints about the delay that I urge on every other member of Parliament has at times taken place in adjusting legal to do as I have done. If I have found that affairs at this office but on all occasions on one of my electors or friends for some strange which I have inquired into them 1 have reason or other has refused to make out a found that generally it is because of the will I neve·r cease to urge on him the a bso­ requirementS' of the law. The Public lute necessity to do so. It i8 not only a Curator and his agents must adhere strictly necessity; it is a duty that every man and to the _law, which provides, for instance, that woman, no matter how small his or her advertisements must be inserted in certain property or money may be, owes to the newspapers for a certain time before estates dependants and friends in order to preve,lt can be _wound UJ:!. That is a very necessary them all fwm falling into legal morass that precautiOn and m most ca'ses that is why sometimes follows the death of a person these delays occur. intestate. However, there have been lapses· on the part What happens if a person dies intestate and of some of the members of the Public possesses a fair amount of property~ Curator's staff and I have in mind an instance Immediately the Public Curator begins to at Rockhampton recently where a little mix­ a-dminister the estate there are petitions and up occurred in the handling of certain mat­ cross-petitions and probate is sometimes ters in that city, which I think was due to opposed. The estate, instead of being dis­ carelessness on the part of the Deputy Public tributed among the beneficiaries and relatives Curator th.ere. How~ver, it is only on very of the deceased person, is often whittled away rare occasiOns that It is necessary to repri­ by legal costs. The legal vultur,e!S-it is the ~na~d a. member of the staff of this s1Jlendid only name I apply to them----do not gather of mstitutiOn. Through the Minister I desire their own volition, but are called in by the to commend the Public Curator and his staff various contestants and when the estate is on the splendid work they are doing. finally cut up very little is left for the . 1Ur. AIKENS (Mundingburra) (11.23 relatives and dependants of the deceased a.m.): I want to speak on this vote only person. It is absolutely useless for any person for the purpose of trying to impress upon all in this community to come to me or any other who may be listening to my remarks and member of Parliament and complain about the upon others through the Press in particular way the Public Curator administers the estate the duty that de>olves upon all of us to 3ee of a person who died intestate. It is the that. ev_ery relative, and everyone else makes duty of every citizen to make out his own a w1~l m order that his or her property may will and see to it that those he relies or be disposed of upon death in accordance with depends upon make out theirs too. his or her wish. The law provides that if ·a 1Ir. THEODORE (Herbert) (11.27 a m.): person dies intestate, that is not having I want to say a few words in appreciation of made a will, the Public Ouratbr shall auto­ the splendid work that the Public Curator matically and ipso facto administer the and his staff render to the people. On numer­ estate of su.ch deceased, although I under­ ous occasions people whom I know have had stand there IS' a· certain financial limitation transactions with the Public Curator and they and I understand also that certain bene~ have commended him for the very able manner iiciaries may, if they wish, go to the court in which he has completed the work and the and apply to have an executor appointed. great courtesy he and his staff have shown The p~int I_ want to ?lake is that every them in every direction, whether in the pers~n m this commumty owes it to his drawing up of a will or any other of the relatives and dependants to make out a will many services he can render them. because if any fail to do so it is too late I remember a case that occurred some years for the beneficiary to come to ~e or any other ago in which a man was in great difficulty. member of Parliament on the matter I feel At that time the Public Curator's Office certah such J?ersons huve gone to ma;1y mem­ a-dvertised very freely, as it does now, the bers of Par hament in similar circumstances services it is prepared to give to the public. and comp_lained that they have an objection to It is the duty of the public, as the hon. mem­ the Pubhc Cur a tOT's administering the will. ber who has just resumed his seat stated, to I tell them. it is their place to impress on avail themselves of those services. The person the breadwmner, sometimes the mother and of whom I speak found the Public Curator sometimes the father, the urgent necessity very helpful and was very high in his praise that. every person in the community shall make· of him. It is because people fear the cost a Will, so that he may appoint as executor that might be incurred in drawing up a will the person he wishes to act, and there will that many of them refrain from taking that be no fuss or bother. However, if for some very wise and necessary precaution in the stupid superstitious or other reason, people interests of their families. They do not Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1193 realise that they can get these services free often minimis.es the difficulties that may be from the Public Curator; if they did, they encountered in administering an estate in w?uld never neglect to take steps to have a intestacy. Wlll made. The person who neglects to make The Secretary for Public Lands has stated ::: w~ll often imposes a great hardship on his that in some instances delays have occurrEld. fam1ly. People who go to the Public Curator I admit there are a number of delays, but it will find that he an-d his officers are very is necessary in some circumstances. To begin helpful and give all the advice that could be with, when a deceased person has left no will obtained from a lawyer to whom they would or even has m,ade a will, public advertise· have to pay a high fee. ments have to be made, probate has to be I do commend this office for the splendid taken out, stamp duty has to be paid. The work that it has done and I know it will advertisements must give three months' notice continue to do. It would be better if it was to enable any person who has a claim on the advertised more than it is, so that the people estate to lodge it so that the estate can be would be aware that it is there for administered properly. It will be seen there· thei: use. When a man dies without making fore that the time taken in administering an a Will and leaves some estate, the wife and estate is not the fault of the Public Curator. family often get very little out of it after As a matter of fact, this morning I have been legal expenses are paid. I had a case in dealing with the case of a solicitor adminis­ Innisfail during the last 12 months concerning tering an estate. Complaint has been made a woman whose husband was a truck-driver hy a gentleman about an inordinate delay. and who died intestate. He owned two or His father died away back at the beginning three trucks and she hoped to get £200 or of 1945, and he cannot get any information £300-although they were worth a lot more­ as t.o when the estate will be finalised. Con­ in or;ler to start a little business. She had sequently, he complained to me. Such delays to wait for months and months and then it are not confined to the Public Curator's office. was doubtful whether she would get half as As I h:we: pointed out, a certain time iF much as she would have got if her husband necessary, and on inquiring into this ca.se had taken the precaution to draw up a will. lYe find that the estate was not confined to ctueensland but included assets in Canada Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ and England. When the bemeficiaa·ies or Attorney-General) (11.33 a.m.): The Rock­ people concerned in a deceased's estate are hampton matter raised by the hon. member tolcl the reason for the apparent delay, they for Normanby is being inquired into. The are peTfeetly satisfied. only way in which the Deputy Public Curator I thank hon. members who have spoken for came into the matter was in witnessing a their commendatory remarks about the Public signature. He was a new man who had just Curator's Office, and I am sure the Public gone up there. The Public Curator has the Cm-ator will continue to serve the public in power to look after anyone who is not able the best interests of alL to look after himself. llr. COPLEY (Kurilpa) (11.38 a.m.) : Mr. Aikens: And often does it, and does Before this vote goes through I should like it well. to add my tribute to the work of the Public ~Ir. GLEDSON: He has that power. Curator and his staff. After listening to the This Deputy Public Curator did not take hon. member for :Mundingburra, I would a sufficiently strong stand. He merely wit· point out that there is a fallacious belief that nessed the signature to the transfer when, in in every case of intestacy the Public Curator the opinion of many persons, he should not must act. That is not so. have ·done so. The matter is being gone into Mr. Aikens: I did not say that. to see whether it ran be rectified. Mr. COPLEY: No, but the hon. mem­ The other matter raised by the hon. member ber referred to this belief. for Mundingburra and thE' hon. member for Kennedy-the making of a will-is very Any person can make a will and it is a important. It is very easy for a person to very simple matter. I do not know whether see the Public Curator or his representative in hon. members know this, but Lord Halsbury, any centre where there is a branch office and probably one of the greatest jurists of the have a will made free of cost. British Empire, after marrying for the second time, omitted to make a wilL Although his Mr. Aikens: There is no need to appoint statements of the law are considered to be him as executor. the epitome of law in the British Empire, JUr. GLEDSON: He can appoint the evidently owing to absolute carelessness he Public Curator or anyone else he chooses as omitted to make a will after his second executor. In quite a number of intestate marriage, and he had a very large estate. estates some person other than the Public Mr. Ma.cdonald: He criticised other Curator ean, with the approval of the people for not keeping to the law. Public Curator, be appointed to administer the estate. The Public G1uator has Mr. COPLEY: Definitely, and he is not no monopoly of the business of adminis­ the only eminent jurist who had not made a tering estates. He is quite happy so long wilL This shows how careless some people as the persons concerned are satisfied. It is can become. necessary to stresS' the fact that a yvill too can Normally, any person can apply for letters be executed by anybody else. I agree with of administration. It is not necessary for the hon. members that the making of a will very Public Curator to act. I do not know whether 1194 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] lupply. it is generally known, but in the Act there Some years ago Mr. Dore, of the Public are two very good sections, sections 72 and Curator's office, introduced one of the best 74. Assume that a man dies leaving a wife record systems the Public Service of Queens­ and a couple of youngsters: He leaves an land has seen. He is certainly a records estate of a certain sum; under section 72 Bxpert and that is the reason for his going to the Public Curator has power to advance to the Taxation Office. There have been a num­ the widow immediately up to £500 out of the ber of efficient officered by that or Thargomindah, who has perhaps 20. or 30 officer and in such cases it is done and done different types of work to do. Such pohcemen well. are registrars of births, deaths, and marriages I know there are delays in the Public Cura­ and the Public Curator's representatives. It tor's office on occasion, bllt there are also is very pleasing to note that our policemen delays in every solicitor's office. As the Attor­ ean do all these kinds of work but the work ney-General has pointed out, certain advertis­ under the Public Curator Act is technical ing has to be done. As a mattBr of fact, in nnd I think it unfair to expect a policeman €Very estate, whether testate or intestate, a to undertake it. I favour the extension of two-months' advertisement is required for the provisions I refer to and suggest that we proof of debts and for the making of claims should have a larger vote to enable the Public against the estate. Many a time I have Curator to nominate people to do the legal made a recommendation that the Public work required. I have no fault to find with Curatar advance money to needy beneficiaries the operations of the Public Curator's office, without waiting for the time for proof of but I hope that the Act will be extended in dtJbts to elapse. Th€se provisions apply in the way I have mentioned. every estate. They are statutory require­ ments, and the time has got to run. Mr. FARRELL (Maryborough) (11.47 n.m.) : I wish to add my contribution to the Again, there rure cases in which a person's debate, as I have found during the time I estate may be not only in Australia but in have represented the Maryborough elector­ England also, indeed all over th€ world. ate that the officers of the Public Curator's When I was attached to the intestacy sec­ Office are unremitting in their endeavour to tion of the Public Curator's office I remem­ do all that is humanly possible within the be>: a case in which it took us three years to Act to meet the requirements of every case trace down certain prope•rties owned by an presented to them. People living in country ex-American. We discovered that the proper­ areas have not the same facilities as those in ties were situated in Texas and, thanks to the larger towns or cities of making personal the diligence of our agents overseas, I think representations, but in all the cases it has something like £20,000 was distributed to been nec0ssary for me to place before the the beneficiaries. If the Public Curatm had Public Curator I have found that he has been 110t been consulted it is possible that those sympathetic and I say that his exercise of properties would not have been discovered or the powers entrusted to him is such as to that they would have gone into the coffers of merit the esteem and respect of those who the State of Texas. require his services. Supply. [6 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1195

I have a happy recollection of a case from I feel, with other hon. members, that we the country that I brought before the Public cannot speak too highly of the Public Cur(ltor, Curator's notice during the lifetime of the Mr. Ford, and his officers, who are continu­ late Mr. Clayton, hon. member for Wide Bay, ally administering the Public Curator Act in whose electorate the person in question sympathetically. Of course, there are delays resided. I undertook to handle the case in the administration of some estates, but because I was, perhaps, shall we say, more it is no fault of the Public Curator himself. energetic than the late gentleman was at that Very often delay takes place in obtaining time. This case is an illustration of how the a grant of probate. I cannot say that there Public Curator can deal sympathetically with is any delay in the Stamp Duties Office matters brought before him. Unfortunately because I have always found that office to be the husband died very suddenly-there was very efficient indeed, but I do know that no indication that he was likely to pass away delays take place in obtaining a grant 0f and no will had been made by him. When probate. I received particulars of the case I immedi­ In effect the Public Curator is not to blame ately got in touch with the Public Curator's for the delay. The delay is not caused by representative in my district, who happens to the Public Curator's act; it is incidental to be the clerk of petty sessions-and a very the nature of the estate. In cases such as excellent officer at that. I later took up these we should speak up on behalf of those the case in Brisbane. The administration of responsible officers who are doing an excel­ the estate took some time but in the mean­ lent job. I therefore join with the rest of time we were able to provide the wife with hon. membe1;s in paying a generous tribute a house in which to live. Mr. Ford, who was to Mr. Ford and his officers for the excellent handling the matter at the time, was very way in which they are discharging their sympathetic and as a result, the woman, who duties. I feel sure that they will continue is endeavouring to rear her family respect­ to give to the public the same service· as they ably and well, was able to buy a home for her­ have been giving oyer a: number of years. self and is now living at Pialba and enjoy­ ing all the amenities of life it is possible There are officers in this sub-department for her to have in the circumstances. She who give every consideration it is humanly is receiving also the benefits of the State's possible to give to the various cases they are social service. So, instead of having to called on to deal with. Anyone who has had struggle against adversity, this woman to deal with the Public Curator and his offi­ through the sympathetic and careful admini­ cers knows that their -work is varied in stration of the estate by the Public Curator, chara'cter. I personally feel indebted to owns her own home and with the help of the them for the work they discharge, particu­ State Children Department-and of the larly in administering estates from my Commonwealth Labour and National Service electorate. In many cases I am able to make Department-she is able to care for and direct personal contact with the officer in maintain her children in a happy and con­ charge and as a result I a·m able to supply tented state and to give them an adequate to my elector who is interested !)'ith informa­ education. That is an example of the import­ tion on phaS'es of the case previously unknown ance of the work of the Public Curator's to them. As a result of these penmnal repre­ Office. sentations one is able to get a more intimate I was pleased to hear the hon. member for and clearer picture of the facts surrounding Kurilpa pay a tribute to the agents of the the case and the difficulties encountered tha'n Public Curator who are carrying out their would otherwise be possible. duties in more or less isolated places in the The Public Curator and his officers have backblocks. He referred particularly to those some very difficult legal points to iron out. magnificent public servants, the policemen. For instance, there are personS' who are who are required to administer the affairs of placed in an unfortunate position because a the Public Curator in various parts of the relative is a patient of a mental hospital. State and make reports to him. There is an When a patient enters a mental hospital a advantage in having officers of the police to charge for maintenance is made on the estate, act as agents for the Public Curator because and the Public Curator collects it. The when a report is required they are competent officers charged with tha't duty do their work to set out all the details clearly in it and sympathetically. I have had to make repre­ of course it is very necessary that all details sentation in very difficult cases of this kind of an estate should be set out clearly. 'rhis and I have always found that the response is to the advantage of the beneficiaries ':!~ to my representations was sympathetic, well as to the Public Curator. When we come founded as they were on facts. to understand the objects and purposeg of the Public Curator's Office we realise more Not only does the Public Curator adminis­ fully than we did the benefits that it besto1vs ter intestate estates but he is the collecting upon the people, and when difficult problems authority for State rented homes. That is beset us we fully appreciate its advantages. a very unpleasant part of the duties of his I know that the agent for the Public Curator officers. We know that there are people who will take advantage of a State instrument­ in my electorate, the clerk of petty sessions, ality and neglect to meet their obligations Mr. Burrowes, is a very competent officer, and that he gives very sound advice to all and this means added and unpleasant duties the clients of the Public Curator there. There­ for theS'e officers. fore, it is very important that we should pay Recently the Leader of the Opposition a high tribute to the public servants who made a great song about a Bill that was carry out the important work of the Pllblic before this Chamber giving the Public Curator. Curator the right to hold property outside 1196 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. the State on behalf of the Government. There are many officers in the Public Ser­ Opposition members may not seem to be con­ vice but unfortunately foT this type of officer cerned about this very important vote but I there is only one head of a department and c?aq~e the;n with insincerity in failing to it is sometimes necessary for us to remind nse m theu places and condemn the Public ourselves that there are capable men who will Curator or extol his virtues. I know that on not have the opportunity of reaching the top. that occasion they merely attempted to drop Of course, there have been and will be public a stink bomb and run away. They servants who by sheer merit, ability, charac­ endeavoured by every means within their ter and knowledge attain the very high posi­ power to besmirch the honour and integrity tions. Today the Public Curator in Queens­ of the Government. Virtually they were land stands very high in the esteem of the opposing a move that was intended to help public. He does his work very carefully, and develop the tourist traffic. We heard thoroughly and satisfactorily. some of the hon. gentleman's supporters Hon. members have mentioned delay in the insincerely speaking about how the tourist administering of wills and dealings with pro­ traffic was catered for in the United States perty but I think I can assure such hon. of America as compared with this State. Yet when we as a Government desired to members that all matters coming to the pre­ sent Public Curator will be dealt with with acquire this property outside the State for the purpose of building up a very efficient expedition and his office will compare favou'r­ tourist traffic, we were condemned for doing ably wth any other legal office. I am quite something they alleged was not in the best proud that Mr. Ford's work will stand out interestS' of this State. We were accused of as a monument to a man with knowledge, making a deal in which, the Government were ability, and the disposition to carry out that guilty of some impropriety. Now we find work faithfully and well. them sitting there very siient. I can assure I would remind the Committee that the hon. members that whilst we ha've members electors in ~y district are 95 to 98 per cent. on this side we will express our thought with­ working people, and although it might be out stonewalling in any way. We are doing thought peculiar that I represent them, that tllat and ipaying generous tribute to the is the fact and has been so for a number of officers who have done such an excellent job years. In their interest and in the interest in the Public Curator's Office. of others I contend that the legal-aid depa'rt­ Hon. members opposite are reluctant to ment .of the Public Curator's office should be get up and defend themselves· for the attack extended. The Leader of the Opposition they made on the Government when the brought to the notice of the Committee two or Public Curator Acts Amendment Bill went more returned soldie·rs who have been virtually through the House, when we were accused robbed of their money by mock builders, as of everything under the sun. Hon. members I might term them, or owing to the condi­ will find, as time goes on, that this Govern­ tions that prevail at the present time. There ment will be commended for their foresight has been no redress for these returned soldiers hi obtaining that property as a central site from these parasites in the community. The in Sydney with the object of extending onr Public Curator's office might be granted an tourist t:~;affic. It is -necessary that the extnt sum for tlw purpose of investigating Public Curator should have control of the these criminal offences, as I would call them, building, because he will be the collector of and if necessary bringing the perpetrators rents. It is important that we should have before a court. of justice. I think that if a in the a'dministration of this very important fe"· additional thousand pounds were voted department men so highly efficient as ~\1r. for the Public Curator's legal-aid department Ford and his staff. for the pmposc of having an investigation officer attached to it to inquire into such com­ . Mr. LUCKINS (Maree) (12.2 p.m.): I plaints as that made by the Leader of the should not like the vote to pass without Opposition-complaints 'vith regard to build­ making reference to the Public Curator. l ing activities of i'ram1ulent people-and han' congratulate the Government on obtaining them brought before a court of justice, I such a fine type of officer as Mr. Ford to fill think it might be a good investment for the the position. He is a man 'of wide experi­ taxpayers and the people of this State. ence and great capacity, and is eminently fitted to fill a position that requires excep­ Jlr. ROBERTS (Nundah) (12.9 p.m.): cicmal ability and tact. The other day when we were discussing the I had some business· transactions with Mr. Chief Office Estimates I seized the oppor­ :.-'nrd when he was chief clerk in the Public tunity to say a few words about the Public Cn:ator 's office. During the building of the Curator's office. Being a new member, I had Mr. Ford did an excellent job. the idea that that might be the only oppor­ 'fhere were numerous problems in connection tunity I should have on the Estimates for with resumptions and claims for compensa­ the Department of Justice. However, I now tion for business losses. Mr. Ford wa·s take this further opportunity of speaking of instructed by the Bridge Board to deal with it. . those claims, and he carried out his work The first thing of note is that the Public faithfully and \Yell in the interests of the Curator's office and the administration of that Government :;nd t)1e Bridge Board; and he department as we know it were made possible also gave satrsfactwn to the claimants. I uo by a· Bill introduced into this Assembly by the not think there was one case in which the great Labour legal parliamentarian, the late claimant was dissatisfied. I congratulate the T. J. Ryan. Another Labom leader of the Government and tl18 department on their time who was particularly interested in the choice. · Public Curator's office was the late J. Fihelly. Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1197

Whether it is true or false, I do like to Mr. ROBERTS: I have no doubt and think that a story I have often heard is yet they have no hesitation in saying exac.tly authentic. I refer to the story that in his the same thing when it comes to a questiOn later and less fOTtunate years Mr. Fihelly, on of the United States of America. his occasional visits to the city of Brisbane, The Leader of the Opposition the other was seen on numerous occasions to stand in day, when disclosing to this Chamber the Adelaide Street just looking at what racket that has apparently been perpetrated apparently was to him a monument-that fine by certain unscrupulous people in connection Public Curator's building on the corner of with a housing project at Camp. Hill, in Adelaide and Edward Streets. filching deferred pay and other savmgs from returned men pa'rticularly, began his remarks Since its establishment the Public Curator's by referring to the fact that these people Office has gone from great things to greater would not have been able to get away with things. The work it is doing at present is it without the help of unscrupulous solicitors.. of immense value to the citizens of this That was a general statement but later in State. We have had many excellent Public his remarks he narrowed it down and as a Curators. At present, of course, we have matter of fact named one particular solicitor. Mr. Ford, who has already been mentioned Mr. Devries, you will find black sheep in every this morning by other speakers. He has been flock. There are undoubtedly unscrupulous trained in the work of the Public Curator's solicitors, just as there are unscrupulo?s Office and he is doing a magnificent job. politicians; even coming nearer home, you w1ll find unscrupulous barristers also. The posi­ I have been amazed here this morning. tion is that these dishonest and unscrupulous Since I have sat in this Assembly the pmctice solicitors or barristers, as the case may be, of the Opposition apparently has been to are only a very small percentage of the compare everything that 1ve have in our way men who are practising those professions. I of life with what they have in the U.S.A., was very pleased to hear the Attorney-General and from the comparisons drawn by them pay a compliment to the help that has beeu our railways, onr public offices, and so on, do given by the Queensland Law Society particu­ not come ont very well. We have heard the larly in cases where destitute persons are in Opposition here telling us how much better the need of some legal assistance. As a mattoi· tourist traffic is in the U.S.A. than it is here. of fact, the majority of solicitors in Bri~ Whenever we speak of railways they immedi­ bane and in the State will, to the utmost ately jump to a comparison of the Queensland of their ability and time, help persons who railways with those of the United States. are in need of legal advice or even in need Whenever almost any subject comes up for of an appearance by a solicitor in our courts debate they immediately take us on a grand and who are in .destitute financial circum­ tour of· the U.S.A. Apparently there is no stancPs. such office as the Public Curator's office in But there still remains a section of the the United States, otherwise I am sure 1ve community, primarily in our criminal classes, should have heard about it this morning. who cannot obtain legal aid unless they have the money to pay for it. In those Mr. Aikens: Financial snobbery makes them do that in order to impress on us that extreme cases we find the Public Curator's they are the only people who can afford it. Office available to give it to them. In the Public Curator's Office, of course, we have the Public Defender. As a matter of fact, the Mr. ROBERTS: As a matter of fact, it Public Defender is also the officer in charge appears to me that the Opposition are so of the legal and conveyancing section of the enamomed of the U.S.A. that it will not be Public Curator's Office and he has a very big long before we shall have them openly .iob indeed. During the period I have been advocating that we place the stars and stripes familiar with the work of the Public in the corner of the Australian flag that is Curator's Office I became acquainted with the now reserved for the Union Jack. magnificent job being done in the first place by Mr. Ryan, and morB recently anu at the Mr. Nicklin: We were very glad to see present time by Mr. McAlpine. There are the staTs and stripes here a few years ago. on occasions, however, cases requiring legal aiel when the Public Defender himself is not Mr. Sparkes: We do not want the available. He may have other work to do. hammer and sickle, which you would like to have. When that position arises the Public Curator calls upon a practising member of Mr. ROBERTS: The hon. member for the bar to appear for the destitute and needy Aubigny interrupts and makes a comparison person, and it is very gratifying indeed to between the stars and stripes and the hammer know that seldom does such a barrister get and sickle. I have no hesitation in saying more than £7 7s. for appearing in such a that if the Communist member of this Parlia­ case, whereas if it had come to him through ment, the hon. member for Bowen, stood up an ordinary solicitor he might get anything and eulogised Russia as hon. members of the from 50 to 100 guineas, members of the bar Country· Party eulogise and praise the U.S.A., do not hesitate to accept such briefs. What I there would be howls from that side to him have said is exemplified in a return to an order to get out of this country and live in the of the House published the other day, relating country of which he is apparently so pas­ to fees paid by the Crown to barristers and sionately fond. solicitors. The members of the legal profes­ sion, including the barristers' branch, individ­ Mr. Aikens: They have said it already. ually and generally do not refrain from doing 1198 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

this work when asked by the Public Curator's affluence and wealth, B may be a man of straw. Office to do it, and I have seen counsel in Both parties may consult their solicitors. A these cases putting up just as goo'!l a case, can pay for any legal advice and for any for such a destitute or needy person for whom appearance in court, but if B, the man of he is to get a fee of seven guineas, as he straw, cannot pay for legal advice or for the would have done if he was appearing for a appearance of a lawyer in court on his behalf, person who could pay anything froni 50 to the result is that he steps out of the picture 100 guineas. I think we should compli­ altogether. A, therefore, gets it all his own ment the legal profession generally for way. The ultimate result is that the solicitors their co-operation in regard to destitute and and barristers are deprive.:! of any remunera­ needy persons who require legal assistance in tion for appearing for A in the courts. If any form at all. on the other hand, B, the man of straw is able However, there is one aspect of this legal to go along to the Public Curator's office aid to destitute persons that I strongly advo­ and get legal assistance, then · there cate the Government might consi

of unlawful and illegal eviction was being I have suggested that eYen now it might not carried out by landlords who wanted to rent be too late for the interested pBople to go to their houses at much higher ren tals to the the Public Curator in Townsville, who I am incoming Americans and their camp-followers. sure, from my past experience and dealings On the other hand, I must admit that on one with him, will do everything he possibly can or two occasions unscrupulous tenants were to find a solution for that little problem, trying to take advantage of the various Com­ although it is an intricatB problem and a monwealth regulations with regard to the serious one for the people concerned. rental and their conduct in the various homes. I know that hon. members of the Queens­ 'l'he Townsville City Council set up a free land People's Party are dull, gloomy, legal-aid department of its o''ffi in order that lugubrious individuals in the main and object any tenant or any home-owner could approach to the introduction of a little humour into the council and receive advice on his case by any debate in this Chamber. We had the the City Solicitor free of cost. If the tenant case here recently when I made a caustically thought his landlord was being unduly humorous speech on the Censorship of Films avaricious or was· attempting to impose harsh Bill. 'rhB spBech was enjoyed by members, l'estrictions upon him or to evict him illegally, particularly the hon. member for Toowong. he could go to the City Solicitor and get all As a matter of fact, he laughed uproariously necessary information at the cost of the from the beginning to end and by jocular council and no cost to himself. On the other interjections and encouragement he spurred hand, any home-owner who honestly desired me to greater Bffort. Of course, later, he ·to regain possession of his home for his own was chastised by the secreta.ry of the Queens­ occupation or for any other reason could go land People's Party for giving any encourage­ along to the City Solicitor and obtain free ment at all to any speech I make in this legal information and advice. Chamber and yBstBrday he had the nerve to I want to pay my tribute to the conduct stand up and chara,cterise the sp€ech he of the Public Curator's office in Townsville. thoroughly enjoyed from beginning to end Originally the officer in charge was a Mr. as a lot of word-drunk nonsense. I believe 0 'Duffy, but for several years it has been Mr. that even in an august and austere Chamber 0 'Brien. I have had occasion to go to him such as this humour does not go astray. So on various matters dealing, as I mentioned I finish on a note of humour and it is in earlier, with a tangled web woven by people regard to the Public Curator's 'Office ~n who would not make a will. Townsville. On one occasion I went to him as the result I know that hon. members of the Queens­ of a rather serious charge that had been made land People's Party, having been rapped over by a responsible person in Townsville as to the knuckles for laughing at my speech last the conduct of the Public Curator in dealing week, will not be even game to smile when with the will of an intestate person. When I tell this story against mysBlf. I have been I approached Mr. 0 'Brien I found there was gifted with the power of being able some­ ~o foundation whatever in the charge, that times to tell a story against myself, and 1t was a case whBre the beneficiary had died this one is about my own will. I have never b_efore the testator and as a result, the par­ had very much money to dispose of, neverthe­ ticular clause had become null and void. The lBss when I was a young man I thought that if Public Curator then, of course, had to adver­ I had any money or property at all it should tise not only in Australia but in Hll parts of go when I died to the people to whom I the United Kingdom in order t0 discover anv wished it to go. Therefore, I went to a person who might still be alive and had -~ solicitor in Cloncurry. In my young days claim to share in the testator's estate. That therB was no Public Curator's offlce. At this took several months. In the end I think they solicitor's office I made my will and one of all got a chop of something like £2 17 s. 4d. the clauses of it dealt with the disposal of each. Whether the original testator would my body after death. I am not very much have wished that, of course we do not know concerned with what they do with me after hut I again stress that if a will had beBn I die-they can, if they like, cut me l_IP into made, though the Public Curator had not little pieces and use me for cray bait-but been the executor, such a tangle would not there are certain health rBgulations that have have occurred. to be complied with and consequently I had to insert a clause in my will concerning the In paying my tribute to the Public Curator I want to say that when any person comes disposal of my body. to me with a problem that involves the dis­ The solicitor made out the will and, read­ entanglement of an estate testate or intestate ing it through some years later when I had I always advise him to go to the Public acquiTed a little legal knowledge-I had not Curator. At the present time I am dealing come in contact with the hon. member for with a case involving a man and his deceased Toowong then but had acquired a little legal first wife. She insured his life in her name knowledge of my own-I felt sure in my o-:n and she died. He married again and sub­ mind that the clause dealing with the dis­ sequently died. He presumably left all his posal of my body was not quite clear, so I property to his second wife. His first wife wrote in another clause to clarify the clause had left her interest in the insmance policy that had been put in by the solicitor. Yea:s to her sons and daughters and now there is later, after I ·came to Townsville-the Pubhc some confusion, just because these people did Curator's offlce had got well under way by not take advantage of the ordinary legal this time-I decided to take my will to the processes that were available to them, and Public Cmator 's office and have it re-drawn. free at that, at the Public Curator's Offlce. I did not alter the beneficiary, who of course, 1200 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. is my wife. She is the sole beneficiary, and feel that the Government would do well to in the event of her p•rior death, my daughter give more publicity to the facilities available is the beneficiary-! do not mind telling hon. at t·he Public Curator's office. members thB terms of my will. At that time the solicitor in the Public Curator's office, an Last Sunday night week I heard an excellent man and a very good friend of mine, announcement over 4KQ by the Attorney­ read the will drawn up by the solicitor ~n General dealing with the Public Cm a tor's Cloncnrry, to which I had added a clause m office, and I frankly confess that although I ink to clarify the clause dealing with the am a member of the Government party and disposal of my body, and he said, ''By jove, know a good de-al about the activities of the 'l'om, when this will is read you will get into Public Curator's office, I "as enlightened trouble." I said, "My fTiend, when that by that broadcast. will is read I shall be past all trouble." He drew up a fresh will for me, and I was able I congratulate the Attorney-General and to makB the Public Curator my executor to the GoYernment on making the· broadcast in dispose of what little property I might have the interests of the people. There is not one when I die as I think fit. bmnch of thB law that the Public Curator's office does not handle. · lUr. H. B. Taylor: When do we laugh? ~When one reads of the fees s·et out and Mr. AIKENS: Of course, the hon. mem­ charged by some unscrupulous solicitors it is ber would not know. He could see the most astounding that more advantage is not taken humorous picture on t·he screen and still would of the facilities o:fferBd to the people in the not see a joke in it. As a matter of fact, Public Curator's office. During the war there is a tradition that the Scotsman is years there were some- internments in my entirely devoid of humour, but I should say electorate-whether rightly or wrongly is that even the dom·ist Scotsmen I know are another matter-and I know that quite a giggling irresponsibles compared ~with the sour, number of people were, if not actually robbed lugubrious members of the Queensland of their money, badly advised in regard People's Party in this Chamber. (Laughter.) to it. If they had had the sense to take Mr. Luckins: We got a laugh out of their problems to the Public Curator and that, anyway. given him their powers of attorney they would have saved considerable sums. Steps ll[r. AIKENS: Which sho·ws I still were taken to foreclose on some farms that possess the power to fasltion verbal shafts were mishandled by the- people holding that can pierce the elephant-like hides of the powers of attorney. Many women held hon. members opposite. powers of attorney over :r:roperties and. they Apart· from all this irrelevant matter that did not know the first thmg about busmess. has been introduced about the gloomy Deans of Some of the properties were lost and they the Queensland People's Party I rose to pay ha'd either to walk off or were thrown off my tribute to the Public Cwator 's office and them. Had the Public Curator held the the excellent work it has done for those people powers of attorney this state of affairs would who are sometimes afraid to go along to the not have occnrred. average solicitur, and I agree again with the I ask the Government to give more pub­ hon. member for N undah. While therB may be licity to the functions of the Public Curator's black sheep and crooks in the legal profession, office, either in leaflet or pamphlet form or fortunately the percentage is very small over the wireless, along lines similar to the indeed. Most of the members of the legal broadcast last Sunday week. I pay my profession are members of old-established thanks to the Public Curator's office in :firms that value their legal reputation just Townsville and to the office in Brisbane for as highly as the Public Curator values the the excellent work they have both done. legal reputation of thB Queensland Govern­ ment, but there are many people who are Mr. KEYATTA (Townsville) (12,.47 arraid to go along to the solicitor's office p.m.): I have much pleasure in supportmg and entrust their affairs to a private soliei­ the remarks made by the hon. members of tor. They sometimes fe-el that they may be this Committee on the good work done by robbed. They read some scare headlines in the Public Curator's office. Their complimen­ the Press about a case in which some crooked tary remarks form a remarkable tribute to solicitor in Sydney or Melbourne- has the very fine administration and I compli­ absconded with a good deal of money, and ment the Attorney-General and his offieers, consequently they are afraid to hand who have played a grand part in this excel­ their few pounds to the care of a solicitor, lent a'dministration. The office is renovvned and are afraid also to go to the Public for the sympathetic con~ideration and ~uid­ Curator. ance extended by it to all who seek help from it. Its work, however, is unheralded and 1\Ir. JESSON (Kennedy) (12.44 p.m.): I unsung and it is indeed refTeshing to hear should like to add my thanks to those voiced these very fine complimentary references made by other hon. members on this side who have to the worK. of thB Public Curator's office. congratulated the Public Curator's office on I felt that it was my duty to rise and support the excellent job it is doing. To my mind them and compliment the Attorney-General. a certain amount of sabotage seems t'O be going on to keep people f•rom going to the As in other centres, we have an excellent Public Curator's office. This is more notice­ administration in Townsville. It has played able in countTy towns than in Brisbane and I an important part in the- affairs of many Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 12ol. people. We have specially trained officers The Public Curator administers the estates and not only are they highly qualified but of deceased persons, mental patients1 inmates they are also temperamentally fitted for the of charitable institutions, and convicts, acts posts they hold. We can have highly qualified as attorney, manager for protected persons, men who are not temperamentally fitted for and liquidator under the Companies Act. their jobs but that position does not exist The number of new estates undertaken in the Public Curator's office because the during the year were- highly qualified men there have the tempera­ ment needed to enable them to cope with the Testate .. 1,167 complaintS' and matters placed before them. Intestate 941 We realise that the administration of such Patients 595 an office calls for the exercise of a great deal Inmates _ . 595 of patience. The officers have the task of Convicts . . 14 having to listen to the various complaints Powers of attorney 19 and cases brought before them and they have In estate matters, 1,042 elections to to exercise restraint so as not to hurt the administer were filed, and 856 orders to feelings of the clients. Their job is of con­ administer were granted. Wills are drawn siderable magnitude and the administration up free of cost and all classes of legal docu­ covers a wide field. ments are prepared at reasonable rates. During the year 4,067 wills and 5,600 docu­ As you are aware, Mr. Devries, the Public ments were prepared. Curator's office was established by the Queensland Government on 1 January 1916 Sales of real estate are undertaken on and its ramifications have been widely behalf of the general public and in connection extended. It has been rendering excellent with estate properties. During the year 257 service to the people of Queensland. properties were sold, realising £142,740. Those figures show remarkable success. They The Public Curator has been given wide are a record of administration of the people powers by Parliament and, with a specially for the people ancl by the people. The policy trained and qualified staff, is in a position of the Government has been to render public to render to the public an efficient and service. inexpensive service in estate administration l'!Iany people of limited financi!ll resources and other phases of his work. All sections of have taken advantage of the Pubhc Curator's the public of Queensland have shown the office and have benefited greatly thereby. greatest confidence in this public utility, The free legal advice service has been in which today controls assets and funds exceed­ existence for many years. In this work the ing £6,000,000 and holds wills under which Public Curator has rendered yeoman service he is appointed executor to the number of to those needy people who require legal aid. 67,000. \Ve, as representatives of the people, very Shortly after the outbreak of the recent often get problems from our electors that war, the Government decided that the Public need elucidation. If the electors' circum- Curator would grant concessions in the 5tances will not permit them to pay private administration of the estates of members of lawyers they can approach the Pul;Jlic the fighting forces. Where the value of this Curator's office and obtain free legal adviCe. class of estate does not exceed £1,000, no As a result, we have had fewer involved office charges are made for administration, matters associated with wills and estates and, and an estate over the value of £1,000 pays particularly, in the preparation of deeds ancl half the prescribed rates. A reduction in transfers of properties, which are highly fees is also made where the Curator acts as involved matters and require the advice of attorney for members of the fighting forces. highly trained practical men. By this work the office has rendered efficient The office has also assisted the war effort, service to the people and is a credit to the having invested in war loans, the sum of Minister and I want to compliment the Public £1,049,000 since the outbreak of war. Under Curator and his officers on the overwhelming an amendment to the Public Curator Acts success they have made of this very important passed in 1945 provision has been made for department. Their service is greatly appre­ simplicity in procedure in the administration ciated bv all. As a member of the Govern­ of estates of a value of less than £600 and ment Party and as a representative of the costs of administration of this class of estate people I feel compelled to pay this tribute to have been substantially reduced. Here are the office and to express my appreciation of the activities for the year ended 30 June, .its administration. Records prove that its 1947- activities are not only increasing in number £ but are also widening in scope. It promises No. of receipts for year- to be one of the largest departments in the 47,000 totalling . . 2,051,124 Public Service. I know of many cases in No. of cheques for year- which people have paid eulogistic compli­ 33,000 totalling . . 2,065,545 ments to this office and it is good to hear Amount held on fixed deposit their glowing tributes to a service that is so for general public 17,500 helpful and so freely given. It affords a Balance held on account wonderful security to people with limited Unclaimed Moneys Fund 354,523 means. They can go along to the Public Amount held invested in Curator for advice on difficult problems and Government securities 1,657, 739 if technical direction is required they are Cash balance held as at 30 able to obtain it from the free legal-aid June, 1947 82,626 department. 1202 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Mr. Maher: I thought you were too should know of some of the ramifications and honest to stone-wall, George. (Laughter.) work performed by that department; so I propose to quote a few figures concerning Mr. KEYATTA: I am not stone-walling. its activities for the year ended 30 June, I am being honest; in fact I am very honest 1947. They are- indeed. I am very proud to be able to speak on this vote and pay a tribute to an excellent £ department. No. of receipts for year- 47,000 totalling . . 2,051,124 Go'\'lernmernt M.embers: Hear, hear: No. of cheques for year- 33,000 totalling . . 2,065,;'545 Horn. W. POWER (Baroona-Secretary Amount held on fixed deposit for Public Works) (2.15 p.m.): I desire to say for general public 11,600 a few words about this very important sub­ Balance held on account department. I find upon investigation that Unclaimed Moneys Fund 354.523 the office of the Public Curator was estab­ Amount held invested in lished. in 1916 and. has therefore been in Government securities 1,651,739 existence for a period of approximately 31 Cash balance held as at 30 years,

A. gre~t deal more publicity than it has the interests of the workers, irrespective of received m past years should be given to the how good or how sound it was. There have Public Curator's office. Although its estab­ not been many dishonest lawyers but evidently lishment has done a tremendous amount of the Opposition of that day were behind the good there ~re ~ number of people who still few dishonest lawyers who might have been do not reahse Its value. At times there is operating at that time because this legisla­ some small delay in the administration of tion was opposed then almost as bitterly as esta~es and I. have. had complaints made to the Banking Bill is being opposed in the me m connectiOn with them but on investiga­ Federal House today. Just as today the tion it has been found th~t the reason for Opposition have more or less expressed com­ the delay is not to be found at the door of plete approval of the Public Curator's office the Public Curator's office. so do I anticipate that the banking legislation in the Federal sphere will receive the appro­ I .rose to quote a few figures to make bation of the Opposition of the future. pubh~ the work done by this office. On many It is a long time now since the Public occasiOns I have had to refer to the Public Curator's office was established, but a perusal Curator's office and must pay tribute to the f,f '' Hansard'' of that time will disclose the offic~rs there for. the way in which they have bitter <1ttacks that were made upon the carne~ . out theH work under the capable Go1 ernment for the introduction of the legis­ supervision of the Attorney-General. lation establishing it. Hon. H. A. BRUCE (The Tableland­ There is no doubt in my mind that the Secreta;y for Public Instruction) (2.25 p.m.): Labour Party will receive the same approba­ By a httle simple deduction we must come tion from the people on bigger issues. The to th~ conclusion that the Public Curator's approbation we have received in connection ?ffice .Is the most perfect department operating with the Public Curator's office has proved m this State. definitely that the Government have foresight consider everything carefully, and ar~ We, as creators of the department naturally interested in the welfare of the smaller men feel proud of this perfect result. At no time and women and, finally, that their legislation to~~Y. has any hon. member of the Opposition lS sound. I do not suppose there is one hon. critiCised the office of the Public Curator. member of the Opposition who is not heartily Mr. Aikens: Approval by silence. supporting the good work done in the Public Curator's office. It is true that anybody Mr. BRUCE : This is the first depart­ can change his mind; if he does not he is ment they ha':'e not cr~tic~sed in any way at dead. It is very pleasing to Labour tb know all. That bemg so, It IS only logical to that legislation that was so bitterly opposed assume that the Public Curator's office must by representatives of the same party as the be perfect and we, as the creators of that present Opposition today is meeting with ?ffice, are naturally proud that we have put their complete approbation. mto effect a perfect piece of legislation. I know that many people have been helped by the Public Curator's office. The things It ~s tr~e, not so much in Queensland but certall;Jy m other States, that before the it was prophesied would happen by the establishment of the Public Curator's office Opposition when the Government took control some lawyers did get away with the entire have not happened. Through tl1is office the estates of s01;ne people. By the establishment Government have advanced money for the of the Pubhc Curator's office everything is purchase of homes and property, and advances safeguarded_. People know that when they have been made in many other walks of life. entrust thell' estate to the Public Curator Not only that, we have safeguarded properties their wishes will be carried out that their left to people; we have made money available children or other beneficiaries wnl receive the to many to build their homes. All of which full amounts to which they are entitled. shows that a· Government-controlled financial They know t~at the money is soundly invested concern can deal with important matters more and that theu efforts of a lifetime of hard efficiently than private institutions. work to create an estate to leave for their Mr. Nicklin: Do you .think they can do children will not be frustrated. a better job than public trustee companies'!' Legislation of this kind is of tremendous value. It gives security to the people it Mr. BRUCE: Equally good, and I ensures that the rights of the people 'are should say cheaper. The rate charged is protected. Even though it might be basically as good as, if not better than, that charged by a financial concern backed by a Government private trustee companies. I know that some guarantee, it does see that the rights of the of the private trustee companies are not exactly 100 per cent. I cannot disclose the name of pe.opl~ are protected, and to my way of thmkmg there are other avenues in life to the company, but one of them asked £40,000 which legislation of this kind could be for a certain property that we bought later extended with advantage. for £10,000, because I told the officer of m;v Department in charge of the matter to buy Hon. members opposite have been silent for the lowest possible pTice. The manager today as compared with their attitude on of the trustee company must have known the other days. I remember that the Opposition property was under offer-it was in an estate of the time when this legislation was intro­ that was being administered. I am certai11 duced opposed it bitterly. There again they the Public Curator would not do such things were opposed to anything that would be in as that. 1204 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.]. Supply.

In conclusion, let me say that the office Mr. DONALD (Bremer) (2.41 p.m.): I :has done a remarkable job in securing to wish to preface my fBw rBmarks by sincerely beneficiaries in small estates what they were thanking the hon. member for MarBe for the entitled to, all that working men and women tribute he paid to the Public Curator and his have taken a lifetime to accumulate. officB generally. It is indeed very rea.ssuring to find m?mbers of the Opposition willing to Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (2.34 p.m.) : praise any public department, particularly I listened to the speech delivered by the hon. one like the Public Curator's office. I praise member for Mundingburra this morning, who the hon. member, not for his silence, but for said that when his will was read his troubles his eloquence. He made no bonDs about say­ would be over. I do not agree-I think that ing that thB P'ublic Curator's department was is whBn they are just going to start. an efficient instrumentality. (Laughter.) Mr. Russell: You must praise them; The Public Curator's office is recognised as they do a goo

The office does not, as many people seem to I get additional pleasure from the tribute think, exist for the purpose only of hand­ paid by the hon. member for Maree to the ling the estates of those who died intestate. Public Curator and his staff because it reflects The following figures will show conclusively credit on the adminiotrative ability of a very how this office has gained the confidence of old personal friend of mine in the person of the people of Queensland. The revenue in the Attorney-General. Any tribute paid to him 1942 was £48,116, and by 1947 that had by anyone pleases me because I know that risen to £72,249. The interest earned by on all occasions, and particularly on this it is this office was £40,835 in 1942 and deserved. It is also pleasing to hear people £59,472 in 1947. The salaries paid in 1942 speak of the capabilities of Mr. Ford. He is amounted to £47,818, and that sum has an acquaintance of mine and it is good to increased to £69,898. The interest paid to know that one's acquaintances are doing well estates, &c., it was handling on behalf of the and being paid the credit they deserve. people in 1942 was £19,623, and that sum Another pleasing feature is that the Public has now risen to £27,802. The cash receipts Curator's Office can train men who can earn in 1942 were £1,034,108, and so great is the respect of every section of the communitv the confidence of the people of th0 State by their behaviour, knowledge and admini;­ in this office that they had risen to £2,051,124 trative capabilities. It is also pleasing to last year. hear unsolicited tributes from hon. members of all political parties to an officer trained in The payment to beneficiaries and others our own Public Curator's office, a fact that in 1942 was £1,016,710, and that has been shows that that gentleman is as good as anv increased to £2,065,:545 in 1947. Inwstments to be found in the Commonwealth or wh~o in 1942 were £632,530 and in 1947 they had could be brought to this State. It proves, risen to £1,657,739, and the cash balances conclusively, Mr. Devries, that we are on the held to the credit of estates was £843,054 in right lines in training our own people to be 1942 and £1,508,881 in 1947. Those figures efficient officPrs in the Government institu­ show conclusively the benefit this office is tions of Queensland. Two former members to the people of this State, and the confluence of the Public Curator's office have spoken that the people have in it. dming this debate and again we must be pleased because each spoke in glowing terms If any further confirmation is needed it of his former employer and of the work thev can be found in the number of wills that 'the knew from first-hand knowledge was being people of this State have made at this office. done on behalf of this State. 'rhe number is over 66,000 and last year In my capacity of secretary of the Queens­ 4,037 people made their wills at the. Public Curator's office. As hon. members have land District Miners' Federation from time pointed out, this service has been o-iven to to time I have had to do business with the Public Curator's office and although Mr. ~he p_nblic ~ree of charge. T'he legal section Allsop has now retired, my associations witl1 1s domg qmte a lot of business. Here again him-and they were many-were always most we find the people of Queensland have taken pleasing. I found that gentleman always the opportunity of availin 0' themselves of most efficient, courteous and capable and some the service of the Public Curator's office members of the Miners' Federation have to which reflects their interest and confidenc~ in it. thank Mr. Allsop for getting them out of rr nasty legal tangle. After mining accidents Conveyancing. documents were. prepared for we realise fOTcibly the benefit of the wise 6,529 people. It is pleasing to know that legislation that established this office anc1 the 69 people who were charged in the Supreme benefits it gives to the wives and children Court were defended by the' legal branch of of the miners. The splendid work that Mr. the department as ably as they would have Allsop accomplished in those days is being been if they paid for counsel. In these 69 carried out with equal success by Mr. Ford. cases in which the people were unable to And, in conclusion, I say it must be pleasing bear the cost of their defence, officers of to every member in this Chamber and in fa.ct the Public Curator's office vrere at their to every Queenslander to know that a boy, service. It is to the credit of the· pioneers bred, born and educated in our State was so of the Labour Party and all members of the thOTonghly trained in the Public Curator's first Labonr Party that the defence was office that he can ;vin the approval and ad­ made available to them without cost. miration of the people of this State. Hon. members have urged the necessity Mr. NICKLIN (Murrumba-Leader of of. extending these services to the people. the Opposition) (2.54 p.m.): After listening W1th that I agree. Again, I agree with the for some hours now to hon. members opposite hon. member for Maree and the Leader of applauding the Public Curator's office I can the Opposition, that if anything can be done come to onlv one conclusion and that is that to curb the activities of those peoplo who it is the most efficient office we have in the are exploiting the inabillty of citiz1ms to State of Queensland. Never have I heard obtain homes it should be done. such a hallelujah chorus go up in regard to any single department during debates on the Whether that can be done from the Public Estimates. Mr. Devries, what is the renson Curator's Office or not I do not know but I why hon. members opposite have been >vastim.; am in full agreement with the view that the time of this PaTliament in talking a hout something should be done to prevent exploiters a vote that evm·ybody wants to pass? This from getting rich quick at the expense of morning we have had an exhibition of time·· people who are seeking homes. wasting excelled only by the example given 1206 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. us years ago by the Attorney-General himself So far the Committee has succeeded in con­ when, in a similar stone-walling campaign, he sidering estimates for the Department of built the Ipswich court house, he pulled it Labour and Industry to the value of £245,000. down, he re-erected it and finished up by It is now in the very legnthy process of con­ polishing the door-knobs. sidering estimates for the Department of Justice, totalling £423,000; so that, assuming The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: I would that at our present rate of progress we do remind the hon. member that we are discus­ succeed by 10 ·o'clock tonight in discharging sing, the Estimates for the Public Curator. the votes of these departments, then, out of appropriations totalling £56,300,000, this Mr. NICKLIN: As the Public Curator Committee will have dealt only with a miser­ has an office in the Ipswich court house, able £669,000. The effect is this: there are I connect my remarks through that medium. matters concerned with the administration of We on this side are quite happy to give the Government that have-and rightly so, the Attorney-General the £2,900 he is seek­ too-attra'cted considerable public noticfl ovE1r ing for the Public Curator's office, if he reeent months. For example, tha Secretary will only get on with the business of the for Mii~s has already announcel several Committee. As I cannot move that the vote important developments-- be increased by £1, s·o that we shall get it tb,rough, I shall move that the vote be The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: Order! decrea·sed by £1 as a protest against the waste I remind the hon. member that he must con­ of the time of this Committee. Let us get on fine his remarks to the Public Curator's with the business instead of having hon. office. member after hon. member getting up in Mr. HILEY: With due deference to you, this Chamber and quoting the same thing Mr. Devries, I am speaking to an amendment over and over and over again. We know for the reduction of £1 in the vote as a that the Public Curator's office will deal with protest against the time taken on it. Is it the estates of deceaS'ed a·nd other people. We not relevant that I should be permitted to have been told that 20 times today by differ­ amplify and explain the effect of this delay­ ent hon. members on the Government side. ing process, against which the motion is We have even had the spectacle of Ministers aimed~ The Secretary for Mines, whose of the Crown getting up one after the other estimates will come before us in the course supporting the Attorney-General's request for of time for discussion-- £2,900 for the Public Curator's office. Mr. G1edson: They have yet to be con­ We of the Opposition are quite happy and sidered. satisfied with the administration of the Public Curator's office, and we are very anxious Mr. HILEY: Yes, and because of the :indeed to give him £2,900 to let him get on time taken on this vote there is not a with the job. I feel that our patience is ghost of a hope that those Estimates will be exhausted, as a result of the spectacle we have considered and that is why we protest. We had here of hon. members deliberately wast­ have, too, the Minister for Transport ing the time of the Committee, when there courageously explaining to the people an are very many other important Estimates important innovation and this Parliament will still to be considered and discussed. As a be denied the opportunity of discussing this protest, I move- important railway innovation because of the " That the vote 'Public Curator, £2,900' undue time taken on this vote. be reduced by £1.'' I do not propose to keep the Committee in explaining a point abundantly clear to Mr. JULEY (Logan) (2.58 p.m.): I every hon. member on both sides. Obviously, support the attitude taken by the Leader of from our very silence every member of the the Opposition on this matter, and in doing Opposition has nothing but regard for the so I remind hon. members that this Committee, work of the Public Curator's office. Not one according to the Standing Orders, prescribes word of criticism was offered on this occa­ a time for the consideration of the finances sion and because of that we do not feel it of this State that is without parallel in any necessary to waste the time of the Committee other Empire Parliament. In the Common­ in a repetition of praise when the absence wealth Parliament colossal appropriations are of criticism tells its own sufficient story. passed in a matter of hours. Here, our Stand­ ing Orders· provide not only for a lengthy I support the amendment of the Leader of Budget debate, but also for 16 sitting days the Opposition for the purpose of recording to be allotted to the consideration of depa'rt­ the protest of this Committee against what is mental estimates. spoiling the clearest and most abundant opportunity for discussion of finances pro­ What do these departmental estimates con­ vided by any Standing Orders of any Parlia­ sist oH They consist of appropriations from ment of the Empire, which is being com­ Consolidated Revenue under the headings of pletely spoilt by the tactics of the Govern­ the several departments, totalling no less than ment on this occasion. £27,250,000, they consist of appropriations from Trust a'nd Special Funds amounting to Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ no less than £19,330,000 and of appropriations Attorney-General) (3.3 p.m.): Mr. Devries, from the Loan Fund of just on £10,000,000; I want to take the opportunity of defending so that the appropriations that this Parliament the Public Curator's office against the attack is asked to consider amount in an to no less that has been launched by the Leader of the a sum than £56,371,126, of whieh tlH; sum Opposition this afternoon in moving a reduc­ that we are now considering is part. tion of £1 in the vote. Neither the Leader Supply [6 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1207 o~ the Opposition nor the hon. member for housing on the vote before the Chamber, Logan can accuse me of wasting time or even which is, ''Fees for legal aiel to poor, accused, of spending time on the vote. I took one ancl other persons, £2,900 ~'' lwlf-minute to move the vote. I am now forced into the position that I shall have to The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: The defend the Public Curator's office and the vote before the Chamber relates to the Public officers of that office against the attack made Curator's office ancl I think the Attorney­ by the Leader of the Opposition. (Laughter.) General is quite in order in setting out to Before any reduction is moved in the vote show that time is not being wasted on this there has to be criticism of the department vote. concerned. The Leader of the Opposition did Mr. GLEDSON: Apparently the Leader not give us any reason why we should take of the Opposition has not read the report of £1 from the vote for the Public Curator's the Public Curator, and I should like to point office. He simply said that hon. members on out that it says- this side of the Chamber were taking up the '' The office negotiated on behalf of time of the Committee and were wasting the other State departments for the acquisition time of the Committee. Mr. Devries, you of lands required for State rental houses, have been in this Chamber for a considerable school purposes, &c. The amount paid time and you have sat here, as I have sat during the year for the purchase of pro­ here day after day and night after night, perties for these purposes was as follows:- listening to hon. member in Opposition talking £ upon ever conceivable subject under the sun. ''On behalf of Queensland Mr. Farrell: For eight days. Housing Commission . . 68,170 ''On behalf of Department Mr. GLEDSON: Yes, and on another of Public Instruction . . 12,110 occasion for seven days. ''On behalf of other State departments 43,364 When hon. members on this side of the Chamber get up to say anything about a department they are interested in, hon. mem­ £123,644'' bers opposite say that we are wasting the time of the Committee, that we are wasting 'That is a total of £123,644 expended on the time of the country, and wasting the behalf of Government departments by the time that should be taken up by-themselves. Public Curator's office. When the State They contend that they should have the right Housing Commission decides to build houses to use that time to trot out some pet subject it is necessary for it first to obtain land on of their own. I propose to defend the Public which to put them. It is not the State Curator's office from this attack, this move Hou~ing Commission that goes along ancl to reduce the vote, and I hope to be able obtams the land. That is clone by the Public to get enough votes on this side of the Curator's office on behalf of the State Chamber to thwart the action of the Leader Housing Commission. That is what is clone of the Opposition. in Townsville, Cairns, ancl other cities and to.wns by the Public Curator or his agents. Jb.·. Power: Wage-reducers they are. Pust of all, he has to send the valuer to value the property proposed to be bought. Jir. GLEDSON: Yes. '\Ve have to take into consideration all the )Ir. Powter: Wanting to take £1 a week cleta~ls involved in obtaining land for State off all the workers-back to the 1929-32 housmg purposes. The Public Curator's period. ~aluer has to go into this phase of his activi­ ties, from the point of view not only of the lUr. AIKENS: Mr. Devries, I rise to a State but of the State's tenants after the point of order. I am interested in what the houses have been erected. He must see that Attorney-General appears to be saying, but th:'t ~and is obtained at the lowest possible I cannot hear him because of the continued pnre m order to protect the tenant's interests. interruption round this corner. I want to After the valuer inspects the land ancl sets hear the Attorney-General. a value on it, negotiations are entered into ·with the mvners for its purchase. )fr. GLEDSON: I want to give some it1ca of what the Public Curator's office stands I have to show jllst what work is accom­ for. It engages in many activities, one of plished by the Public Curator in order that which has been mentioned by way of inter­ the Committee will feel justified in not jection, but not dealt with by many hon. reducing this vote by £1. The report of the members. In addition to his other duties, Public Curator speaks for itself. Hon. mem­ he represents the Government and Govern­ bers have a duty to the people they represent ment departments in the purchase of land to read that report and make themselves and buildings and other things. That is a acquainted 1vith what is being done. Evi­ Ycry important part of his work, and I pro­ clentlv thev have not done so. It is therefore pose to show what has been clone along those necessary ·for me to point out to the Com­ lines. Take the subject of housing, which mittee what the Public Curator is doing in has concerned the State for many years. his various spheres of activity in order to show that there is no justification whatso­ }Ir. NICKLIN: Mr. Devries, I rise to a ever for reducing his vote by £1. I must noint of order. Is the Attornev-General in also show the Committee ancl the people, whom order in speaking on the activ.ities of the we represent, that the Public Curator is Public Curator's office in connection with discharging his duties. 1208 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The work that I will place before the administered by the officers on whom the Committee as having been accomplished by attack is made this afternoon by way of an this office deals more particularly with the amendment for the reduction of their vote. past 12 months, namely, from 1 July, 1946 It is not a reduction in Trust and Special to 30 June, 1947. It is the administrative Funds at all. I should be clearly out of actions of the Public Curator that I desire order in dealing with Trust and :Specral l<'unds, to place before Parliament today. I am which are a1J the end of the Estimates. The sorry that it is necessay for me to go into Leader of the Opposition knows that and he all these matters in order to show that the knows that I do not disobey the rules of the Leader of the Opposition has no justification Committee by going onto anothe•r vote. I for moving an amendment to reduce this vote will, at the request of the Leader of the by £1. Let me proceed then to show what Opposition and in obedience to the Chair, is being done by the Public Curator. Durinr confine myself to the work of the Public the year, his office concluded transaeotions Curator. running into hundreds of thousands of pounds. Excessive profits were not made in One of the duties of the office is the· doing so. Is that one reason why the Leader administration of estates. It may take me of the Opposition has moved an amendment some timo to explain what is done by the to reduce the vote by £1 9 If he has done officers in the carrying out of that duty. It so because excessive profits were earned, then may take me somB time to point out that I want to point out to this Committee that the officers in charge of the administration there is no justification for the amendment of estates a•re very important officers. because the profits earned over the whole of Mr. HILEY: I rise to a point of order. the year on all the transactions were not On page 96, under the heading ''Trust and excessive. Special Funds'' you will see an appropriation, llir. NICKLIN: Mr. Devries, I rise to a ''Estates Administration Branch, £13,071. '' point of order. I would draw your attention I ask your ruling whether the Attorney­ to page 95 of the Estimates-Estimatee of General is in order in discussing the adminis­ Expenditure from Trust and Special Funds, t•ration of estates on this vote. 1947-1948-Public Curator, £113,802. That vote covers the whole of the activities of the The TEMPORARY CHAIRiliAN: I rule Public Curator. May I respectfully point out that the Attorney-General is quite in order if you allow this debate to continue on its because the question before the Committee present lines, you cannot prevent us from deals with fees for legal aid to poor, accused discussing Trust and Special Funds Estimates and other persons. I rule that the subject in connection with any department in which matter being discussed by the Attorney­ General comes within that vote. such funds occur~ T1te TE1UPOR.ARY CHAIRlUAN: Order! Mr. GLEDSON: I was going to point out I shou)d like to remind hon. members that a that the •reduction of this vote by £1 may fair amount of latitude has been given in affect some of the officers who are adminis­ the discussion before the Committee, but now tering estates. that the Leader of the Opposition has directed Mr. Nicklin: We will take up a collec­ the Chair's attention to the particular Yote tion for them. before the Committee, ''Public Curator'' which is really a specific vote, ''Fees for Mr. GLEDSON: We may keep the Leader Legal Aid to Poor, Accused and Other Per­ of the Opposition up to his word to go round sons, £2,900," I .feel bound to uphold the and take up this collection for the £1, the point of order rmsed by thE) Leader of the amount of reduction. I do not intend to go Opposition. I therefore ask the Attorney­ into the question of what estates are adminis­ General to confine himself to that vote. tered and the value of them. I will deal with that when I get to the vote covering that Mr. GLEDSON: I have no intention of matter. getting onto the Trust and Special Funds at all. We will deal with those matters when I intend to deal now with those officers thBy come before the Committee. I will confine who come under this vote of the Public myself to the actual work of the Public Curator's Office. Curato•r 's office during the last 12 mont~s, At present before the Committee is the and the previous years, which it is permis­ question of reducing that vote by £1. In sible to include and I mentioned the Trust the Public Curator's office there have to be and Special Funds matters only in passing. officers specially trained in particular work. I did not go into detail. The Public Curator During the war we lost the services of a and his officers deal with the matters to which number of men who joined the fighting forces I have refer'red and I intend to confine myself or were called up in the defence of this to them and obey your ruling, Mr. Devries, country and numbers of juniors had to be which is perfectly right. brought in to take their places in order that The Public Curator's office, through the the work could be carried on. Later we· whole of the transactions during that year, obtained the services of a number of men made a profit of £5,487 4s. lld. who had returned from the war, but who Mr. Nicklin: Out of the poor persons? had had no experience in administrative work. These had to be trained and made efficient Mr. GLEDSON: Not out. of Trust and so that they could do this work in the Special Funds. T·his is actually office revenue Public Curator's office. There are also a and expenditure. The general office fund is number of conveyancers in that office, and Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. l2\i9 in this work too we experienced the same Mr. Nicklin: Of course he would. difficulty of shortage of staff. These pro­ blems had to be faced, and we had to train Itlr. GLEDSON: Mr. Alan Ford is a men to bring them up to date in this work. fellow-townie of mine. He was born not Yery far from where I live. Mr. Aikens: What qualifications does a conveyancer hold. Mr. Aikens: Now we shall get his genealogical tree-of poor but honest Mr. GLEDSON: He has to have a legal parents. knowledge such as will enable him to pre­ Mr. GLEDSON: The hon. member for pare documents for transfers of property, Mundingburra is perfectly right. His has to arrange for title deeds, and other parents, like mine, had to struggle to live in matters that have to be gone into. the early days but th<:>y struggled, gave. him .Mr. Luckins: He has to be qualified. a primary school education, passed him on to the Public Se.rvice, and he has now worked Jir. GLEDSON: I thank the hon. mem­ himself up to the position of Public Cmator ber for helping us there-he has to be quali­ of (~ueensland ancl I very much regret that fied. Hon. members will know that the work T have to defend him today against the in the Public Curator's office goes further Lr.ader of the Opposition who wants to than merely administrative work. As has been reduce the vote for this office by £1. stated in this Chamber, there is a splendid In this department we have other capable section in the Public Curator's office that officers such as the Public DMender. I has been referred to as the legal branch. think the first Public Defend·e'r ever There is a professional solicitor in that section appointed in the British Empire wa's who does the legal work for the Public appointed by the Queensland Government. Curator. He holds a very important position, That man is now a judge of the High Court one of his duties being to study all documents of Australia. I refer to Sir William Webb. p1·epared by the administra.tors, which of course have to be examined by a legal man. ltir. Aikens: Are you going to tell us These officers are doing splendid work, and how he got his knighthood? I think the Committee would not be wise, and Mr. GLEDSON: He was knighted because in fact would not be justified, in taking £1 he• was Chief Justice of this State. He from any of their salaries, or in splitting held a position equal to that of the Chief up the £1 reduction among the whole of the .Justice of any other State. ancl for that members in the office. reason he was' knighted. There are a number of matters I could Mr. Aikens: On the recommendation of speak on in connection with this vote. I this Government I could mention that I find some hon. members of this Parliament are the same as their Mr. GLEDSON: I suppose this is the c0lleagues in the Federal House; if they do only Government that could recommend him. not get their own way they walk out of the As· a young man, Sir William \Vebb was Chamber. I think I am justified in defend­ employed in the Public Curator's office. He ing an office under my control, and if the was appointed the first Public Defend<:>r of Leader of the Opposition moves for the reduc­ ·whom there is any record in the British tion of the vote by £1, I am justified in Empire. He defended poor prisoners and defending the office and telling the Committee those who \verp not able to defend themselves. the important job the office is doing; that He has risen from that position to a judge there is no justification for the Opposition's of tlw Supreme Court and Industrial Court, moying to reduce the vote for that office he presided over the trial of Japanese war by £1. criminals, anrl no\v he is a jndg<:> of the High I take this opportunity of pointing out Court of Australia. I hope that he will that this motion for the reduction of £1 is JJecome Chief .Justice of the High Court exceptionally bad, inasmuch as we have a new because he has the necessm-y ability, as a Publie Curator who took office only this year, result of his training in the Pnhlic Curator's and if this motion for the reduction was office·. Are we to r<:>duce bv £1 the vote for carried by this Committee it would be a a department that can t1irn out men like reflection on him. that? r (·oulcl speak nbout other matters but I "It \Yould be tantamount to a. Yote of no understand other hon. members wish to speak <·onfid<:>nce in him, yet I suppose the I.eader on the amendll';ent. '!'he Lead,er of the of the Opposition, after ha,·ing moved a Opposition has moved that the, vote he reduction of. the vote by £1, and his reduced bv £1 and, that being so, every hon. <·olleagues will be going to the Public member ~vho has spoken to the original Curator's office tomorrow asking for some­ motion can no\v speak on the am<:>ndment. thing on behalf of their constituents. I \\'ill not take up further time, of the 2\Ir. Nicklin: Does the Attorney-General Committee, nor will I encroach upon the time suggest that hon. m<:>mbers of the Opposi­ of other hon. members who might desire to tion will not g·et the same consideration as speak to this amendment. I oppose the members of the Government 9 reduction in the vote. lir. GLEDSON: If the Leader of the Mr. AIKENS (Munclingburra) (3.30 Opposition saw Mr. Foc·d about auy busine3s, p.m.): I intend to oppose the amendment Mr. Ford would attend to his business just moved by the Leader of the Opposition and I as he would attend to any of my business. feel that I owe it to my electors to give the 1210 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. reasons why. I agree with the Leader of the Government Statistician. I spoke, however, Opposition or rather, shoul

.repeatedly mentioned today, the Public every subject we wish to speak on and I am Curator's office, which was established by a sure that right will be preserved despite Labour Government in the past and down Opposition protests. They are entitled to through the years has given very good advice have as many joint conferences as they wish to poor persons, accused persons, and others. but when they want to impose their will on The Public Curator's office is now handling us then that is a horse of a different colour. this matter and my constituent feels at least that although he cannot buy the house he will I for one will not submit to it, and I am not have lost his money. sure none of my colleagues will submit to it either; nor will hon. members not attached I could continue in this strain but probably to our party, because they have found their I should be taking up the time of this Com­ actions repulsive. mittee unnecessarily if I quoted case after case of people who ordinarily go to private Let us look at the time wasted each morning enterprise with their legal and financial mat­ in the asking of irrelevant and stupid ques­ ters but who are very disappointed and on tions. eoming to me or their own member, are ndvised to go to the Public Curator's office Mr. Malter: They are questions seeking from which they get a great deal of satisfac­ information of public interest. tion. For that reason I very strenuously oppose the reduction of this vote by £1. ~Ir. BURROWS: The information sought in, say, 98 per cent. of the cases is available I will conclude with the hope that when by a mere word or two to the head of a staff is available branches of the Public department. Look at the questions asked this Curator's office will be established in every very morning. The ''Courier Mail'' is read fair-sized town in Queensland. At the present by everybody in the State and its readers know time this work is carried on in most cases by what the information is going to be. When the clerk of petty sessions. I think that an hon.· member opposite asks a question 118 has to give advice on 27 or 28 departments, today he knows what· he will be told tomorrow. and it is my wish, in view of the valuable As I said, people read the newspapers; they \V Or k done by the Public Curator's office for listen to the wireless. Valuable time is wasted such a moderate fee, that branches of the every morning in this Assembly. The ques­ office be established in as many towns as tions have first of all to be typed and printed, possible in Queensland so that everyone in and then there is the valuable time wasted in the State may have every opportunity of the answering of them. Hon. members of the availing himself of the excellent service that Opposition are not concerned about wasting has been rendered to the people by this office time; for instance, I find on taking up this since the day of its establishment. morning's business sheet that the hon. member for Dalby asked the Attorney-General- Mr. BURROWS (Port Curtis) (3.56 p.m.): I oppose the amendment. As an excuse for " In view of his statement on 4th instant moving it the Leader of the Opposition says that an Inspector of the Licensing Commis­ that too much time is being wasted, but in his sion had reported that virtually there were nsual inconsistent manner he decides to waste only two goats and a .ilog at Meandarra, a great deal more time under the guise of will he kindlv authorise me to make an Raving time. inspection of the report in question~'' Our action on this side in debating this The hon. member for Dalby when he asked vote was not premeditated. Personally, I that question realised how ridiculous it was. 1 felt it my duty to pay tribute to an office charge him: and I invite him to get up on the that has been slandered and assaulted by the floor of this Chamber and justify his question Opposition. I respectfully suggest that hon. now or as soon as convenient during this members opposite tell us openly what advice debate. Can he justify his action in asking they give people who have asked them about whether there are two goats and a dog at the virtues of the Public Curator's office. I Meandarra or two dogs an.il a goat at Mean­ know, and so does everybody else, that their darra W Can you, Mr. Hilton, believe that there advice has been to keep away from the Public is sincerity in their actions when they ask Curator's office because it is a Government such questions and follow up their action by department. I am surprised that they have an amendment that a certain vote be reduced not gone so far as to charge the Public by £1 ~ As a reason for the amendment they Curator's office with violation of the oath of say that it is to save time. I invite hon. secrecy. members opposite to be honest and stand up and say that they want to be hypocritical­ We are charged with wasting time. I and they generally are-and that they will <'harge the Opposition with having joint con­ waste more time by pretending that they ferences and selecting special items on which to centre a barrage and conspiring to keep a're trying to save time. silent on others. They, who are only few in Instead of doing that, they come out with number, come in here and attempt to dictate their protestations. the policy of this Parliament. Fortunately we still live in a free British democratic Suppose this vote was reduce.il by £1. Do country and they are not going to impose not hon. members opposite know that it would their will on a majority of hon. members not be the man on £1,000 a year who would of this Committee. Have we to ask the suffer a reduction but the charlady; her wages Leader of the Opposition, or the secretary of would be reduced by £1. That is what we the Opposition, for permission to speak on would expect from hon. members of that any subject~ We have a right to speak on party. 1214 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.) Supply.

I will not waste any more time and I con­ remarks were replied to by a member on this elude by saying I compliment the Attorney­ side of the Committee who happened to know General on his attitude. As one of my friends something about the other side of the world. facetiously remarked, ''If he was here for He debunked the stories told by hon. mem­ breakfast he would stay for supper." I con­ bers opposite. I was not in a posit:ion gratulate him on his refusal to be stampeded myself to say whether they were telling the by members of the Opposition. truth, because I did not know, but it so happened that a member of this party had Mr. MAHER (West Moreton) (4.5 p.m.): been in those places and he debunked their I support the amendment moved by the arguments. Hon. members opposite wasted Leader of the Opposition to reduce the vote the time of Parliament last Tuesday night for the Public Curator's office by £1 as a in snivelling about the lovely parties and protest against the time-wasting exhibition the good times they had in some parts of that we have witnessed in this Committee by America but an hon. member from this taking four hours in the discussion of this party debunked their stories. minor vote. If the galleries of this Parlia­ ment were filled today with wage-earners or A member of the Labour Party has as industrial people to listen to the exhibition much right to speak on these occasions as of time-wasting here I am sure they would hon. members opposite. If the object of a be disgusted with their representatives in debate was to give an increase of ld. a Parliament. Never before in the history of pound in the price of wool or to give some the State have the people been more confused, commercial advantage to hon. members never more bewildered by the apalling out­ opposite they would be happy to keep it look, yet the time of Parliament is being going day and night, but because hon. mem­ taken up in levity and in wasting time in bers on this side of the Chamber have been the discussion of a vote that is not of great making a cas·e for the poor people whom interest to the people of the State, certainly hon. members opposite would like to rob, from not one that warrants the taking of nearly whom they would like to take every cent they four hours of the valuable time of Parlia­ had, there are violent protests from them. ment on the subject when there are other Because hon. members on this side of the departmental Estimates of very great import­ Chamber have made a case for the better ance to the people to be considered. And administration of legal matters in this State because of this stonewalling campaign of the in the interests of the estates of the poor Government, Opposition members are denied defenceless people who are not O'therwise an opportunity of offering some constructive protected from predatory lawyers hon. criticism for the benefit of the people of the members opposite complain. Because they State. have been making a case for the' people who do not matter to hon. members opposite, we Here we have a copy of the "Teh•graph" have this complaint about wasting time. today with the headline, ''Cost of living Nothing could be more ridiculous. again soaring rapidly,'' in other words the value of the worker's £1 depreciating all the The hon. member said this is not an import­ time. We are facing a serious situation but ant vote. It is one of the most important the time of this Parliament is being deliber­ votes we are called on to deal with in this ately wasted while we are not given the Chamber, because it affects all the poor people opportunity of discussing matters tliat weigh in this State, those who have not the oppor­ so heavily on the workers of the State. . tunity of drawing directors' fees to pay for such services as are given by the Public I see 'the PremiElr has come !into !the Curator. It affects those people who cannot Chamber and I hope that he will have the charge their expenses up to some business good sense to do what Mr. Chifi'ey did in expense a'nd avoid taxation. It affects poor the Federal Parliament the other day when people who have to live on £5, £6 or £7 a one of his Ministers was foolish enough to week, who are compelled to seek the aid of call for a division. The good sense of the the Public Curator. Prime Minister told him that it was needless, useless, and provocative and he called the I was glad to hear some members of our division off. Therefore, I hope that the party defending the Public Curator from Premier will be good enough to direct the the campaign of belittlement that is carried Minister in charge of these estimates to call on in commercial circles in Brisbane. Time off this stonewall and allow Parliament to after time when constituents have come to get on with the serious business for which me and asked me for advice about drawing up it is assembled. a will, I have always said that the safest thing for them to do was to have it drawn Hon E. M. HANLON (Ithaca-Premier) up by the Public Curator. I have told my (4.8 p.m.): I am astonished at the attitude constituents that every little bit of business of hon. members opposite in complaining I have had done has been done by the Public about delay when they are causing delay Curator, as I knew there was then no chance themselves by moving an amendment to of my being robbed. There is no possibility reduce this vote by £1. I have never heard of the Public Curator's robbing me and of anything so ridiculous as that a political being hauled off to gaol. Countless numbers party should move a delaying amendment­ of people have been robbed by defaulting del~ying t.he' passage of the vote as a protest private executors. I told these constituents agamst delay. If there has been any wasting that the Public Curator would take care of of time it was done by hon. members all the business they placed with him. An ~ppo~ite last Tuesday night while they went attempt ha.s been made to create hostility to for JOurneys all round the world. Their the Public Curator among poor people in Supply. [ 6 NOVEMBER.] Supply. 1215

order to try to win them from that protective The amendment moved by the Leader of agency and drive them into the maws of the Opposition is an insult, particularly to unscrupulous trustee companies and private the new Public Curator, who has recently executors. been appointed. The Public Curator's office One of the most important functions of is one that will go on for a long time. That the Public Curator is to look after the is why it is very satisfactory for people to interests of the poor people. His office is go there to transact their legal business and. the child of this party, and every member of to make their wills-when one Public Curator the Labour Party is proud of it and the dies he is replaced by another-but private rema;kable s~rv~ce it gives to the poor people. companies do not always continue and when Admittedly 1t 1s of no value to the rich a member of it dies there may be great Admittedly, too, graziers like the hon. mem: confusion. I am pleased that the Leader ber for \Vest Moreton and the hon. member of the Opposition and the hon. member for for Aubigny, or commercial magnates like Aubigny mentioned that they were in accord the hon. member for Oxley do not make use with the Public Curator's office. After all is of th~ P;rblic Curator. Possibly they have said and done, it is a vast step towards the :financial mterests themselves in trustee com­ nationalisation o£ the legal profession. There panies, and seek to buttress their own busi­ is the fact-they are really in favour of ness by using it, as wise men do, but that nationalisation; they know that nationalisa­ fact does not affect the mass of poor people tion is going to come about by the very tactics and hon. members on this side who represent that they themselves adopt. They know that and care for the poor and working people there is hardly an industry of any description o.f this country are not going to allow any with which the Opposition is connected for httle group of hon. members or commercial which they are not asking for a subsidy magnates on the Opposition benches to deprive or assistance. It is the people's money that them of the opportunity to make a case for is going to give that help, and that is going the poor of this State. to bring about nationalisation today-the thing they so strongly oppose. Look at the I commend the members of this party for barrage put up against the nationalisation of taking an interest in this vote. It is not banks. I say quite definitely that we have going to yield them any private profit. every right to speak. I lodge the strongest No member of this party will make any protest against the action of the Leader of profit from building up the Public Curator's the Opposition in moving the amendment. office, but they recognise that their doing so is in the interests of their constituents, who Mr. CROWLEY (Cairns) (4.19 p.m.)': In will be better served because ot the existence moving this amendment for wage-slashing, of the Public Curator's office. Hon. mem­ the Opposition are seeking to deprive the poor bers on this side of the Chamber take their people of Queensland of an asset. The people duties seriously by taking advantage of this of Queensland appreciate the work of this vote to give advice to the Minister on how office. The Opposition are trying to stop to build up and extend that service. members on this side from expressing their view that the office is doing a good job. The 1\lr. BROWN (Buranda) ( 4.14 p.m.) : This Leader of the Opposition is endeavouring to is the first opportunity I have had to speak stop freedom of speech. on this vote and I do take exception to the Mr. RusseU: I.t is a question of repeti­ Leader of the Opposition's attempt to deprive tion; you keep on saying the same thing. me of my right to do so. I have listened to virtually the whole of the debate and have Mr. CROWLEY: The hon. member would remained. in the Chamber in 01·del to get an not speak on this vote because he represents opportumty to speak on it. It is my right, the rich. as a member of this Legislature, to discuss I pay a tribute to the Public Curator's this or any other vote that might interest my branch office in Cairns, which is the most electors, yet here we have the Leader of northern office in Queensland. The officer the Opposition trying to deprive me of that in charge and his staff are very courteous opportunity. and they have rendered a good service to I desire to congratulate the Public Curator the people of this State. That goes for all on the great work that has been done by his the staff of the Public Curator's office and department since its creation in 1916. I have the Department of Justice. I have much had much contact with the department. I pleasure in paying tribute to both for the have been responsible for bringing much good work they have done. business to the office. I have come in con­ Mr. SPARKES (Aubigny) (4.20 p.m.): I tact with many poor people who did not rise to support the amendment. It is rather know where to go and I have taken them amusing to hear hon. members opposite all to the Public Curator's office, where they congratulating the Public Curator's office. lmve been treated with absolute fairness and The work that office has done is well known, justice and the staff were civility personified. it is like good wine, it needs no bush, but Mr. Jllaher: We all agree with that.. all this talk on the vote may make the Public Curator think that he was not really doing llr. BROWN: I know hon. members his job. A good job is being done, we all opposite agree but I wa:rit the people of admit, but why do hon. members opposite Queensland to ·know that they agree. Hon. have to rise and tell everyone all about it~ members opposite have sat quiet on this Their action, instf'ad of being a compliment vote, and I do ndt know whethe;r their to the Public Curator, is more or less an silence means consent or contempt. insult to him-making a joke of him. 1216 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

The hon. member for Buranda said that question, but he has said that he is doubtfpl 1Ye were continually asking for subsidies, whether there is any sincerity in the members but can the hon. member tell me any one that who have spoken from this side. Every we are asking for today~ No, he cannot tell member on the Government benches should us of one, but that is the sort of remark speak and express his views. I have known made by members on the Government benches. the Opposition to monopolise the whole morn­ We heard the hon. member for Mundingburra. ing on matters with which they were con­ Re roars like a bull to keep everyone away cerned and were closest to their hearts­ but as soon as anyone gets near him he gets when profits or some such thing was being down. Re makes a hell of a noise in the hope interfered with. that he will frighten everyone away. It is the privilege, right, and duty of hon. Mr. Aikens: I quietened you. members who have the capacity to do so to express their opinion on various jmatters Jlr. SPARKES: No. I have a way of when the opportunity arises. We have such dealing with wild bulls and I will deal with capable men on the back benches of our side the hon. member in that way quick and lively. that after three or four have spoken there I am surprised at the hon. member for is no need for the rest of us to waste the Carpentaria too. Re gets up to tell us about time of the Assembly, and therefore we liquor in America. Re had to contradict what Temain quiet, but the Opposition get up one was said in this article in the Press. The after the other and, as far as possible, hold hon. member said that you can get no· drink llp hon. members on this side, because they in a hotel in America, but this article states, feel they have a monopoly of the knowledge ''Liquor flows freely in the United States of the particular subject under discussion. of America.'' The hon. member was endeavouring to prove that vve were wrong. If there has been any waste of time today Tllat is the sort of thing that wastes the it has been on the part of the Opposition. time of this Committee. There is no occasion There was no need whatever to move an for each and every member to rise and con­ amendment to reduce the vote by £1. I gratulate the Public Curator. We know all oppose the amendment, and express resent­ about that office and we agree with hon. ment at the action of the Opposition in members opposite. When we are dealing with trying to delay the sensible and sound dis­ a Bill we either oppose it or agree with it. cussion of a very important vote. We are in agreement with this vote, so why Mr. JESSON (Kennedy) ( 4.27 p.m.) : the necessity of stressing the obvious~ While I was clown stairs about half an hour Mr. Hanlon: The members on this side ago filling in some papers for old-age may not be in agreement: they want more pensioners in my electorate, the Whip of the done, they are asking for more service for party told me that the Leader of the Opposi­ the people. tion had moved that the vote be reduced by £1, stating as his reason that the Government Mr. SPARKES: Imagine the Premier side were indulging in stone-walling. Need­ saying that members on his side may not less to say I was horrified and astounded to agree ~ith it! Can you imagine a member think that the Opposition would indulge in of the Labour Party coming into this such contemptible practices. As a matter of Chamber and not agreeing with anything fact, last Friday the whole of the morning after they have been whipped up in Caucus and most of the afternoon was given up by to agree with itf They would not be game the Government to allow the Opposition to enough to disagree with it here. They would blow off their bags about the great loss they get whipped and no-one knows that more had in sorghum. than the Premier, yet the hon. gentleman says, '' They may not agree with it.'' Mr. Nicklin: You are not concerned 'l bout the loss of sorghum~ Mr. Hanlon: They ask for better services. Mr. JESSON: Of course I am, but there Mr. FarneJ.l interjected. is no need for the Opposition to blow off Mr. SPARKES: You are the worst bat in their bags trying to gain political kudos. the cricket team. The only reason that you The Leader of the Opposition could have put got in is because of your stonewalling, so his case and the Secretary for Agriculture and you keep quiet. Stock replied to it and the Committee could have then gone on with its business. As a For the life of me I cannot understand matter of fact, while they were arguing the the Government's attitude at all. The whole point the mice were eating the sorghum. position has become ridiculous in the extreme and I feel sorry for the Public Curator and The Public Curator's office is one Govern­ l1is officers. ment department that should be given the :l'ullest possible publicity, so that the people 1Ir. THEODORE (Herbert) ( 4.24 p.m.) : may realise the benefits to be had from seek­ I cannot allow this debate to proceed without ing advice there. I repeat that I was entering my protest against the attitude of horrified to hear about the amendment and I the Opposition. I formerly said the few eame upstairs immediately to register my words necessary to convey my feelings about protest here. the Public Curator's office, but I take I have often said that the loud laugh exception to the stand of hon. members who denotes the vacant mind. Hon. members have not spoken in disapproving of another opposite can always laugh when they are l10n. member's speaking. The hon. member giving a bashing, but they do not laugh when for Mundingburra stands and speaks on any they get one. When I gave them a bashing Supply. ' [ 6 NOVEMBER.) Supply. 1217 during the discussion o:f the Estimate :for Mr. Maher: Hear, hear! ''Electoral registration'' they sat there very glum and white about the gills. The remark­ Mr. INGRAM: That was the statement able thing is that they were going to chop the hon. · member made but let me ask him: us to pieces on that vote, but when I bashed what did his Party do in 1929-32 :for the them they just lay down and did not squeal. workers of this State~ His party sent them T.hey got everything that was said and they along with their swags on their back andl did not even come back. Little Chiller kept starved the women ani! children of the State; away :for the day and Bruce Pie went down they took Is. a week :from the poor little to see the Melbourne Cup. Nothing was said orphans. The workers were made to jump in the Press about how they were taken on the rattler and when they jumped the rattler and I wager that this ridiculous amendment the Government o:f the day put the police onto moved by the Leader o:f the Opposition and them. Mr. Hilton, I am absolutely disgusted supl!orted by hon. members opposite will with the Leader of the Opposition in moving receive more publicity in the Press than will his amendment. A reduction in wages is all the benefits offered by the Public Curator's his party and the Queensland People's Party office. think about. As I said this morning and as the Premier I congratulate the Attorney-General on :emarked, sabotage is going on and most o:f it bringing this very important vote before the IS brought about by hon. members o:f the Chamber and I protest against the reduction Opposition. They can ask me to withdraw moved by the Leader of the Opposition. that statement i:f they wish. I know, and I Mr. DEVRIES (Gregory) (4.34 p.m.): I can produce people to prove my statement take the opportunity o:f saying a :few brief that they have told people not to go nea~ words on this important matter. I was sur­ the Public Curator's office. That happens prised at the attitude of the Opposition in every day in the week. moving the reduction o:f £1 in this vote on As the Premier said, this office· is the child the ground that allegedly the time of the o:f th~ Labour Party; it brought it into being Committe was being wasted. Do I take it a.nd It has. brought it up. The Opposi­ that the Leader of the Opposition meant t:on have tned to condemn it on every occa­ wasted in idle talk~ I think it ill-becomes the siOn. When the Opposition were the Govern­ Leader of the Opposition or any hon. member ment they .ha~ th.e o~portunity o:f bringing o:f the Opposition to try to judge when talk such a fine mstitutwn mto being :for the bene­ is useful and when it is idle. You cannot fit o:f the poor people but they never used it. tell a good story too often, and the story of I r~cord my emphatic protest against the the Public Curator's office is worth telling. tactics o:f the Leader of the Opposition in his amendment. Let me take the case of the average person in the outback, miles removed :from any Public Mr. INGRAlti (Keppel) (4.31 p.m.): I Curator's office. I join with the hon. member co:rg;·atulate the Attorney-General on bringing :for Kurilpa in expressing the hope that the this Important vote before the Committee. It Attorney-General will be able to expand its ~Jas been said that \Ye have been stonewalling; activities. Let us consider :for a moment the rf there has been any stonewalling at all it people living in Birdsville, :following various ha.s been by the Opposition, perhaps not' on occupations in an area away :from civilisation, thrs vote but on other votes. We members as it were. They have a right to expect of . the Labour Party speak on matters of protection at the hands o:f the Public Curator. whrch we know something; we are not like Even they need legal assistance :from time most hon. members of the Opposition par­ to time in matters that affect their welfare. ticularly the Queensland Peop~e 's Party, 'whose I am not suggesting that tb.e purpose of members speak on everythmg, even those the Government in extending the scope o:f things of which they know nothing at all. the Public Curator's office is to eliminate I say without fear of contradiction that if the private legal practitioner. I suppose every it was not for the Public Curator's office the one o:f us in his lifetime has had something working-class men and women of this State to thank the legal profession :for. When a man would have been robbed by solicitors. I have qualifies as a lawyer, he is entitled to a fair had occasion to go to the Public Curator's reward :for his services, so as to recoup him office in Rockhampton. On various occasions :for his costs :for qualifying, and I am sure people in my electorate have told me that it is not the wish of this Government to they were told by their Tory members not interfere with the livelihood o:f any reason­ to go near the Public Curator's office because able decent legal practitioner. it would take everything they had from them. I take it that in moving his amendment I say also without :fear of contradiction that the Leader of the Opposition was charging the Public Curator's office gives the people the members of the Government Party with of this State justice in every way. Hon. having indulged in idle talk, but every hon. members o:f the Opposition maintain here member of the Government party has a perfect today that it was not necessary to i!iscuss this right to talk i:f he so desires. If I liked, vote. I say, as the Premier said, that the I could charge hon. members opposite with vote is one of the most important we have idle talk on many occasions, working the old in the interests of the poor people o:f the parish pump. That is going all the time, State. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition but after all that is their right and their said that if the workers o:f Queensland heard privilege, and it ill becomes the Leader of that we were stonewalling in this Chamber the Opposition to deny the right to any they would be disgusted. hon. member to get up and talk. 1218 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.) Supply.

I desire to enter my strong protest against REGISTRAR-GENERAL. the amendment, and I am sure that when the electors of Queensland become aware of Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich- it they will regard it as an attempt by the Attorney-General) (4.44 p.m.): I move- Leader of the Opposition and his party to '' That £10,520 be granted for 'Registrar- deny hon. members of the Government party General. ' ' ' in particular of the right to tell the story, This vote is £1,370 in excess of last year's a good story, and to offer commendation of expenditure, the increase being made up of the good service of a certain section of the increases of £930 in salaries and £440 in con­ public servants in this State. tingencies. The increased proVJslOn for Amendment (Mr. Nicklin) negatived. salaries is brought about by increases in the basic wage, and the payment of award Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ increases. The number of officers is two less Attorney-General) (4.40 p.m.): It is now for than in 1946-47. The larger amount in con­ me to reply to those hon. members who have tingencies is due to provision for the binding spoken on this vote. I could not do so on and rebinding of registers, some of which the amendment as I was confined to speaking have become the worse for wear. to the amendment only. A considerable amount of work was done in The first hon. member who spoke was the connection with our records and the binding hon. member for Kurilpa. He advocated the costs a considerable amount. This is being extension of the adtivities of the Public brought up to date. Curator in providing legal aid for those persons who are not in a position to do so M:r, AIKENS (Mundingburra) (4.45 who are involved in criminal cases in the p.m.): I wish to mention on this vote the police court and also in civil actions. That question of an allegedly illegal sweep con­ will be examined by the Government. We ducted quite recently. I am not opposed to had an opportunity of analysing the New sweeps on the Melbourne Cup, whether they South Wales Bill and discussing its objects are legal or illegal. Any reputable person or with the Attorney-General of New South organisation that wants to sell a ticket in Wales. After having had that opportunity any one of those sweeps can come to me and and seen how the New South Wales legal-aid I will take a ticket. I have received a letter legislation operates we shall be in a better from a reputable citizen-the son of a promi­ position to consider its application to Queens­ nent Labonr politician in his day-wh~ says land. that an individual gave the Incapacrtated The hon. member for Maree congratulated and Wounded ·sailors' and Soldiers' Associa­ the Government on having a Public Curator tion of Queensland a very large snm of money, like Mr. Alan Ford. I want to thank him amounting to well over £1,000, in order that for his remarks. We recognise that we have he could use the name of the organisation, n good conscientious worker in Mr. Ford. which is a particularly good one, in order to He has made himself well acquainted with conduct an illegal sweep. If the organisation the requirements of his office. was conducting the sweep itself for the bene­ The hon. member for Nundah raised one fit of its own funds I should have no objection or two matters and then paid a very fine whatever to this action. tribute to the late Hon. T. J. Ryan for }fr. Macdonald: How does this come mtroducing the original Public Curator Act under the vote~ in 1916. He alluded to the part played by the Hon. J. A. Fihelly also in the passage Mr. AIKENS: This organisation comes of that Bill. He further raised the subject under the Registrar-General's department. If of extending the activities of the Public the organisation was running this sweep, I Defender. We will, as far as we possibly should have no objection to it, but I think can, try to improve that service during the there must be something rotten in the State next session. of Denmark when an alleged go-getter can Several other hon. members also spoke on come along and give £1,300 to a responsible phases of legal aid to poor and accused and reputable organisation snch as the In­ persons. The same remarks apply to them. capacitated and Wounded Sailors' and We had complimentary references to the Soldiers' Association of Queensland purely work accomplished by the officers in the and simply for the right to run a sweep _on the Melbourne Cup. If he can afford to grve northern branches of the Public Curator's a reputable organisation £1,300-and I under­ office at Cairns, Townsville and Rockhampton. Mr. 0 'Duffy, who was stationed in Towns­ stand he gave it £1,300 last year and has ville for a time, is now engaged on special offered it more this year-for the sole rfght work in Brisbane. Mr. 0 'Brien suceeeded to use its name and reputation to enable him him, but he has been transferred to Brisbane. to run a sweep, then I say the ''cop'' he is getting must be considerable indeed. I under­ Mr. Skellern has been transferred from Cairns stand from conversations I have had that this to Townsville and Mr. Jordan has been trans­ matter has already been brought to the notice ferred from Brisbane to Rockhampton. of the Attorney-General. I want to say once I think I have covered all the matters again that I am not goi;ng to unduly delay the raised in the debate. I thank the hon. mem­ Committee. Although rt may not be popular bers for West Moreton and Aubigny for their with certain sections of the people I want to J·eiteration of the fact that they are not say that I am in favour of the little s;veep opposed to the Public Curator's office and that is run during Cup time or at other times. the vote before the Committee. I am not like the editor of the ''Courier­ Vote (Public Curator) agreed to. Mail'' who wrote a leading article the other Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1219 day about the lega1ity of sweeps and then took Mr. GLEDSON: Was it £1,300? Imme­ a ticket in the ''Courier-Mail'' sweep and diately the complaint came in the C. I. Branch dn w Fresh Boy, I am not a hypocrite. I put on two officers to inquire into the whole believe those little sweeps that are run on the matter. They got in touch with the president outstanding races give a bit of zest to life. I and the s·ecretary in the office of the associa­ am not a racing man-I have rarely been on tion and made full inquiries from them. Both n racecourse-but I have no objection to the president and secretary swore that the participating in these little sweeps as long as association last year got every penny that they are well conducted by reputable organisn­ was raised by that sweep. We could not get tions and individuals. anv evidence that this organiser had defrauded the association of one penny. Had Here I have a specific complaint from a we got evidence, of course we should have man of high repute and standing in the com­ taken all the action that the law would allow munity vYho states that this person paid the us to take. The police reports were that the Incapacitated and Wounded Sailors' and president and secretary denied that this Soldiers' Association £1,300 last year for the organiser of their sweep had got one penny right to run a sweep in its name and use its out of it, that the association had got every nmne. I am also informed that the profits penny made by the sweep. >rere £2,600, of which the association received £1,300 and the ra;;keteering organiser Mr. Kerr: It made him an employee? £1,300. What a beautiful "cop" to make Mr. GLEDSON: I do not know what it out of a sweep conducted under the name of made him. The evidence obtained by the this particularly fine organisation! It is the nolice was to the effect that he undertook name of the organisation that sells the tickets, to run the sweep and sell the tickets for the as often as the prize offered in the sweep. association. That is the evidence we were 'J'his year he offered it £1,000 plus £500 worth able to get. of tickets to sell-and it would have no difficulty in selling them. I am not in accord with the hon. member for Mundingburra so far as running sweeps Mr. Theodore: Why did you not expose are concerned. it f Mr. Aikens: That was my personal Mr. AIKENS: I am exposing it now. opinion. 2\'Ir. Theodore: Give his name. Mr. GLEDSON: My personal opinion is that when a sweep is run without any control Jlr. AIKENS: I do not know his name. over it the books cannot be obtained and I unde1·stand it is Pope. I am making these audited and so the organisers can evade an remarks and I am leaving a little time to audit and do what they like with the money. follow on. If the hon. member had been here They can even defraud people. We have no at the outset of my speech he would have control over them inasmuch as we cannot l1eard me say that I believed the Attorney­ audit their books. That is wrong. General had been informed of this matter. Mr. Aik.ens: Sweeps run by reputable I know the Attorney-General would be just organisations ? as eager as I am to stamp out t!1is partiw­ Mr. GJ;EDSON: If it is under control larly pernicious form of racket_ee;mg m :what and books of account are kept that can be might be termed Aust_raha s na~wnal audited that is all right, but with an illegal pastime, the innocent ~astm1e of . talnng: a sweep run without authority there is no ticket in a sweep durmg the big racmg control over the funds. I do not believe in carnival. I am prepared to make this letter that. There must be control in order to give available to the Attorney-General if he needs protection. In the case mentioned a good it but I know he does not, because I have association that is doing quite a lot of good been reliably informed to that effect_ from a for its members, I understand, is concerned. very good quarter, but I make this sta~e­ If the sweep is conducted properly and in ment now so that the Attorney-General will accordance >vith the law, I should not have inform the Committee as to the steps taken any objection, provided we had control of ;md to be taken in futme to stop this nll the accounts so that they could be pernicious form of racketeering. subjected to audit, and thus stop anybody from defrauding the public or a reputable Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ cause. Attorney-General) (4.51 p.m.): I do n~t know whether this matter comes under tins Mr. Aikens: Will you grant permission yote, but if I am permitted I should like to to hold a sweep~ reply to the hon. member's statement and set Mr. GLEDSON: Under the law at the out the particulars as far as we know them. present time there is no power to grant per­ A complaint came in that the Incapacitated mission to hold a sweep. and Wounded Soldiers' and Sailors' Associa­ tion was running an illegal sweep; that an Mr. Wan stall: Therefore you cannot. organiser was running it for it and had run Mr. GLEDSON: Under the law at the one last year. I have not the papers with present time there is no provision. I . am me, but from memory the association received against running illegal sweeps at any time. half the amount of the takings, which ran Had we been able to obtain evidence that into something like £1,300 or £1,400. this man was defrauding the association we Mr. Aikens: £1,300 even. should have gone to the limit of the law in J947-2R 1220 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply. seeing that he was prosecuted and made against a brick \vall when he meets the disgorge anything he had got, but when the statement of the executive officers that there president and secretary of the association had not been any sharing of the proceeds. say that the association got all the money The point is that it is necessary for the raised from that sweep, we had no evidence Covbrnment to make up their minds to stamp to justify a prosecution. Those are the thi:l thing out entirely or to bring it under facts submitted to me some time ago. the contTol of the Attorney-General's Depart­ ment so that he can exercise careful supervi­ Mr. WAN STALL (Toowong) ( 4.55 p.m.): As it happens, I am in a position to support siun over it, just as he does with art unions. the explanation of this matter given by the I am in a position to support the Attorney­ Attorney-General because I too have ha~"ill act the moment that evidence IS lmil ment and with the Attorney-General's Depart· hefm·e him. 1ne:nt iu which the facts ,,~ere set out as he stated them to me. I saw the Attorney­ Y ote (RegistTaT-General) agreed to. General at the House here and passed the matter on to him, and I will say for him SHERIFF AND SUPREME COURT. that he immediately made inquiries about it and sent for the relevant file on the matter. Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ As it happened, he dug up tv.-o other files in Attorney-General) (5 p.m.): I move- conne~tion with similar matters of another '' That £45 097 be gTanted for 'Sheriff nature that did not concern this question. anr1 Supreme 'cJour t . ' " Wh8n he got the right file it was at least This sum is an increase of_ £2,750 .on last half an inch thick and it iwlicated that the ye aT's expenditure, £1,918 m s_alanes m;ll department had investigated the matter genu­ £832 in contingencies. The ~ncrease ~n inely and earnestly. The Attorney-General salaries is due to payment o_f mCI·eases m told me, and I agree with him, that it was the basic wage, and award m~reases. The impossible for him to take any disciplinary number of officers has been mcreased by· action in the circumstances as the executive tvYO. The increase in contingencies i~ due officers of this association denied that there to extra provision for the expenses of JUrors had been any split between the association and am1 witnesses attending the Supreme. and the person alleged to have nm the sweep. Cireuit Courts and for payment of !ngher The realistic approach to the matter is that rates of allowances to witnesses and JUrors, il' the Attorney-General wants to do anything in order that the scale shall conform to the Le will have to prosecute. To do that he will present basic wage. have to ha,-e evidence :fit to obtain a convic· Mr. AIKENS (Mundingburra)_ (5.1 tion in a court of law, for some offence known p.m.): I do not want to keep reopenmg the to the law. The plain fact of the matter is 1,-omHl but I think I am compelled to reply that at the moment a sweep is wholly illegal to a statement made by the Attorney-General, and the only offence that the law Tecognises and more or less supported by the hon. in connection with it is to prohibit anybody member for Toowong when I devoted most from running it. As far as I am able to of my time on the Chief Office vote to suggest­ recollect, I think the only evidence that any· ing that the Attorney-General.ll:nd the ~ov~rn­ body conducted a swl'ep was the sale of one ment should, either by exercismg their ngl;t ticket by the girl in the office, and I am with of appeal or by any other method, make ~t the Attorney-General when he decides not to clear to the Supreme Court judges of this prosecute the innocent girl in the office. It State that the Government were very con­ wouH not have achieved the real purpose of cemed with the off-hand manner in which the the investigation which was to see whether Supreme Court judg~s loo~ed up?n. offences, there had been any improper allocation of the particularly offences mvolvmg a k;ll;ng where proceeds of the sweep. the instrument of the offence or lnllmg was a As to the investigation of the conduct of motor-car. The Attorney-General, who by the the sweep the Attorney-General's Department way is a fairly crafty tighter, stood up and could not audit thl' books because the sweep with a wave of his hands said that it would be is totally prohibited. He finds himself up Tidiculous to go to every Supreme Court Supply. [6 NoVEMBER.] Supply. 1221 judge and tell him what penalty he could Mr. Sp~~trkes: He said he would do that inflict in each case. Every hon. member in future. knew that such a statement was furthest from my mind. The hon. member for illr. AIKENS: I am glad that the hon. 'foowong also said that it would be definitely member for Toowong· is going to take my wrong for this Government, or for the Crown advice. While he talks on questions of law to intimate to judges that they were dis: and he maintains the standard in that regard satisfied with the sentences meted out for that he has already set in this Chamber he ig particular crimes. an interesting and instructive speaker, but when he gets onto other things he is just a I should point out to the Attorney-General dithering diatribist. that the i~ea of a ju~ge bei~g influenced by some outside body IS nothmg new. It is The Cro>yn can do what I suggest in any nothing new for the Crown Prosecutor, after way they hke. They can by a general indi­ cation to the judges express their disapproval ~~ p_erson has bee~ found guilty of a crime, to mchcate to the Judge that the Crown desire of the lenient sentences or they can, as I suggested earlier-the hon. member for 'roo­ ~he most severe. penalty to be inflicted. It 1s done on many occasions, not only in the wong was good enough to mention that I Supreme Court of Queensland but in the lower had suggested it-exercise their right of court. It is nothing new for 'a judge to admit appeal or they can do as they have done on from the bench of his own volition to his many occasions not involving a killing with being influenced not only by the Government a motor-car-they can instruct their Crown but also by an organisation that does or should Prosecutor after the verdict of guilty has not haYe any connection with the Government. been recorded by the jmy to stand up and press for the heaviest penalty possible. ~ rememJ:ler _a Supreme Court judge attempt­ mg to JUStify a savage sentence inflicted In suggesting that I again want to upon a prisoner by saying that the Govern­ exemplify the point that I have nothing ment an_d religious bodies recognised the against the Crown's exercising their right or off~nce m que.stion as being particularly appeal. .They unhesitatingly did this when senous. If a JUdge of the Supreme Court three boys were found guilty of rape in can P?~licly admit that in inflicting or Rockhampton recently and the judge sentenced deternnnmg a sentence he was influenced bv them to seven years' hard labour and the the G?Yernm~nt and religious bodies, surely Press came out "and expressed horror at the there IS nothmg wrong in my suggestion that leniency of the sentenqe. The Attorney­ the Gover;:tment. should intimate to the judges General did not hesitate to lodge an appeal, their entne disapproval of the light and which was responsible in my opinion for the lenient sentences inflicted on motor-car killers. meting out of a rather commensurat•l sen­ tence to these three bovs. The Crown Prose­ I do not subscribe to the ridiculous side­ cutor has both in the· lower court and the i_ssue raised by the Attorney-General that higher court impressed upon the magistrate .Judges. ?f the . Supreme Court today, in or the presiding judge that the Crown regard deternnmng pumshment to be inflicted on a an offence as being very serious. As I said man found guilty by a jury of certain earlier and I repeat now, simply to exemplify offences, should ring the Attorney-General the point I make, judges do not hesitate them­ :mc1 say, ''Please, Mr. Gledson what sentence selves to admit from the bench that they are shall I inflict on this man~'' 'The Attorney­ not influenced alone by the letter and spirit General adroitly twisted by suggestion the of the law they are paid to administer but other day to lead the Committee up the are influenced by the attitude of the Govern­ garden path. ment aml religious organisations towards cer­ lUr. Collins: The Crown have the right tain offences. of appeal. lUr. LUCKINS (Maree) (5.7 p.m.): Some lUr. AIKENS: I mentioned. that. I am J·ears ago the Atto-rney-General announced that it was the intention of the Government glad th~ Minister_ ~as suggested it. I sug­ gested m my ongmal statement that the to build a new Supreme Court. I understand that land has been obtained in George street C:overnment s~ould indicate their disapproval, either by tellmg the judges in general that for that purpose and I should like to know they were dissatisfied with the sentences from the Attorney-General whether it is pos­ inflicted, or by exercising their right of sible to haYe a new Supreme Court or Court appeal as provided by law. of Justice in keeping with the dignity of the State. I hope it will be possible to erect a The hon. member for Toowong was decent structure that will givi8 everyone greater enou_gh to recognise that I made that point facilities than those in the present Supreme particularly clear. The hon. member for Court, which is very much congested. In say­ Toowong is a man who in my opinion, judging ing that I am speaking on behalf of all the hy the utterances he has made in this Cham­ barristers, for whom I have great admiration, ber from time to time, is fairly sound on including not only the hon. membeli for questions of law. It would be better if he Toowong but also the two hon. members of would stick to questions of law and not the Government party who are barristers. I diverge to a dithering diatribe on the nation­ hope it will not be long before we shall have alisation of banks and other things that he a new Supreme Court. ]mows absolutely nothing about. When the ho11. member speaks on questions of law he Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich­ is in my opinion a very interesting speaker Attorney-General) (5.9 p.m.): We have had and at times a very instructive speaker. to lay aside the proposal for the building of 1222 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

a new SupTeme CouTt because of the uTgent right to appeal. I cannot do anything more need foT the housing of the peoule and so it than that in the matter. I hop-e that as will be a considemble time befOl'e a new long as we have a judiciary-and that will Supreme Comt can be built. We had prelimi­ probably be as long as the State lasts-our nary plans drawn up for the construction of courts will be untrammelled in the determina­ two wings• to the present Supreme Comt, tion of matters before them and in giving one on either side of the existing building, decisions according to law. I quite. agree to provide for two new courts, 1vitnesses' with the hon. member for Mundingburra that chambers and so on, with the idea that this that should be the only factor influencing a building would become useful for some other judge-the law on the subject-when pmpose later on. imposing a sentence. It appears to me that a consideTablc num­ ber of years will elapse before a start can Mr. WANSTALL (Toowong) (5.14 p.m.): he mad<:> on the construction of a new Lest. it be 1mderstood that the hon. member Supreme Court. Before that work can be for Mundingburra 's somewhat unaccustomed begun all the buildings on the suggested praise of me suggests that I am entirely in site must be removed, and labour is not accord with the suggestion 'he put forward, available for that work. As soon as we are I ·want to dear the air. It is true that on able to undertake the work, therefore, t.vo a previous occasion I spoke not so much as wings will be added to the present building. to support the views he put forward as to They will provide for two additional court indicate that what the Attorney-General said rooms. The wings will be constructed in was qualified in a certain direction. T'hat is quite true. such a •vay that they \Yil! not interfere with the architectural design of the present Mr. ATh:ens: You corrected a misinter­ building, but will enhance its appearance. pretation of the Attorney-General's. The building now usrd for the Jl.fagis­ h·ates Court in Brisbane is due for removal Mr. WAN STALL: I qualified his misin­ at any time but we must first get a new terpretation or failure to appreciate the two Magistrates Court. I understand that points involved. Two arguments were used arrangements have been completed between by the hon. member for Mundingburra. the Government and tlw Brisbane <:itv One 1.-as that thE' Crown should indicate iu Council for the extension of Adelaide street a general way dissatisfaction with certaiu to North Quay. sentences. The second on0 was that the Crown should indicate dissatisfaction with :1 If the hon. member for ~Iundingbnna particular sentence by exercising the right to would stick to the statement he made todav appeal against that sentence. we could be in perfect agreement with hin1, that is, that the judges should follow the I informed the House that the member law that is provided for the occasion when for Mundingbmra had raised 'the second sentencing prisoners. Those la•vs are passed point. ·with that second point I entirely by Parliament as a guide to the judges and agTee. But I do not agree that the Crown therefore the judges are quite within their have any Tight whatever to indicate to the rights if they award sentences in accordance .iudiciaq by saying so their disapproval of with that law. The matter of the Govern­ sentences in a particular or a general ·way. ment's giving instruction to judges is a different one altogether. I should hate to Mr. Aikens: Have you not heard the Crown Prosecutor ask for a heavy sentence~ think that any Government, especially a Labour Government, would give instTuctions Mr. WANSTALL: If I were on the Bench to a judge in any matter before him. and he asked me for such a sentence I should Mr. Jllacdonald: What sort of a recep­ tell him where he got off. I have heaTC1 tion would you get~ judges and magistrates tell a Crown Prose­ cutor who \vas so indiscTeet as to use the Mr. GLEDSON: We should get. the recep­ words that he pressed foT a heavy sentence, tion that we deserved if -we a·pproached a to mind his own business and that the busi­ judge in that way. ness of sentencing a prisoner was for the Mr. Ailliens: I did not suggest that you judge and not for the Crown. That is a should do it individually. different matter from the Crown Prosecutor acting within the limits of his authority as JUr. GLEDSON: I can assure the hon. Tepresenting the Attorney'-General, placing member for Mundingbt1rra that as Attorney­ before the court the Televant facts that the General I have no intention of approaching Crown think the court should take into con­ any judge on any judicial matter ·whatsoever. sideration in considering its sentence. That Honourable :iliembers: Hear, hear! is a vastly different matter from the Crown Prosecutor's saying, "In the opinion of the Mr. GLEDSON: If my advisers inform Crown this is a matter that merits a heavy me after a trial and the imposition of a sentence.'' sentence" that they think the sentence is Mr. Aikens: You are saying the same inadequate to meet the circumrtances of the thing as I said, only you are saying it nicely. case and if they further advise me to appeal to the Court of Criminal Appeal then I am MJ.o. WAN STALL: Oh no, I want the hon. quite willing to take that advice. The Crown member to understand that if any Crown have the same right as a prisoner, who, if Prosecutor was so indiscreet as to inform he things a sentence harsh or of greater the court as the hon. member for Munding· severity than it ought to be, has a perfect burra suggested that he should-that the Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Sttpply. 1223

Crown thought this was a matter that should TIT'LES OFFICE. attract a very high penalty, the court would, if it had any regard for its independence­ 'Hon. D. A. GLEDSON (Ipswich- and I know it has a very high regard for ito Attorney-General) (5.20 p.m.): I move- ind,ependence in this State-very promptly '' That £42,903 be granted for 'Titles ana properly tell the Crown Prosecutor to Office.' '' mind his own business. Therefore I do not This is an increase of £2,696. Salaries show agree with the suggestion that the Crown an increase of £3,857 and contingencies are should in a particular case or in a general £1,161 lower. The increase of work that way indicate-- obtained at the beginning of the last financial year has been maintained. To meet this lUr. Aikens: No-one suggests a parti­ increase an additional 16 officers are employvd, cular case. including those who have returned from war Mr. WANSTALL: Not even in a general service. In contingencies the items ''Postage, way indicate to the judiciary that they dis, Telegrams and Incidental,'' and, '' R.etiring approved of the degree of severity the court Allowances'' show decreases of £1,413 and is applying in sentencing offenders. If the £395 respectively, whilst ''Fares, Freights, Crown are dissatisfied with the sentences tl1at Printing and Stationery'' shows an increase are being imposed by the court the constitu­ of £647. tional remedy is within their grasp: that is, There is no need for me to dilate on this to extend urm·ard the maximum limit office. It has done an enormous amount of that is prescribed as punishment for an offence work. Much overtime has been worked to in the statute which creates it. endeavour to bring the Titles Office up to date and to deal with the documents that have to lUr. Aikens: You cannot have higher than go through that office. ~ome time ago the life imprisonment. >York was speeded up and theTe wn:s an improvement in the position. Ordinary Mr. WAN STALl": In the case of man­ registrations, such as by-endorsement tTans­ slaughter, where the maximum is life if a fers, mortgages, releases, &c. are done within judge imposes an unreasonably light se~tence two weeks. That is a very good achievement. the Crown exercise the right of appeal. I think it took 12 months some little time . Leaving that aside for the moment, take ago. As regards transfers, &c., where new bigamy. There was a feeling some years ago titles are to issue on old plans, new deeds are that bigamists were being let off too lightly. now issued within six weeks of lodgment. All the Crown had to do if they wanted to That also is a very good achievement. If any express an opinion to that effect was to person requires his or her deed urgently a increase the maximum sentence for the crime certificate is given until the new title is of bigamy, and the court would have iso·ued. In transfers where new titles are to before it a crime for which the maximum issue on plans lodged at the same time it sentence was 14 years instead of 10, as the will take from six to seven months from the case 1nay be, That is the constitutional lodQ"ment to nrenare the npw deeds because remedy. of ~the difficulties of the dra'ftsmen in the preparation of the new plans. Transfers are li'Ir. Gledson: That is not the function now given within si.x weeks; where the plans of the Crown; it is the function of Parlia­ are ready it is only a matter of transfer but ment. when new plans have to be prepared, on account of the shorta'ge of draftsmen it takes Mr. WANSTALL: That is the function of from six to seven months to issue the new Parliament, of course. It goes without say­ deeds. The reason for this is that up to ing that the Crown could not amend a sen­ December, 1946, there was a shortage of com­ tence without coming to Parliament· I am putors and it was only then that anywhe1·e merely shortening the pTocess. If the Govern­ near a full staff of that class of otliceT was ment representing the Crown decide to alter obtained. the law, they bring it to PaTliament. That is the remedy. I commend the Attorney­ At 5.23 p.m., General for stating-although he did not Mr. DUNSTAN (Gympie) relieved Mr. give his Teasons-that he disappToved of the Hilton in the chair. suggestion that he, on behalf of the CTown Mr. GLEDSON: The Titles Office has should in any way attempt by his expressio~ been very hard hit, on account of the of opinion to affect or influence the judiciary. number of men who >Yent to the war. .Mr. G1edson: If I did give my reasons A number of junioTS and men who had you would have said that I was stonewalling. returned from the wa·r were put on but special officers had to be used to train them. The Mr. WANSTALL: We have been discus­ Chief Computor unfortunately was off ill for sing the vote for only 10 minutes· there are some months. He was the head of the entirely different circumstances hdre. I was bra'nch and that also created manv difficulties. prompted to rise because of the feeling hon. From January to July, 1947, was taken up members may have that I entirely supported with the issue of new titleS', during which the hon. member for Mundingburra. I have period 15,379 titles were issued. Much of the expressed those views on earlier debates. I time of the computors wa's taken during this will not delay the Committee any longer. period in checking diagrams on the new titles. Since July the computors have con­ Vote (Sheriff and Supreme Court) agreed centrated on the examination of new plans. to. Even though they were taken off the corn- 1224 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

puting part of their work 1,475 plans have title, indicating , exactly whe,re the land is. been registered in the 10 months of this It gives the frontage in links, the depth of year. During the same period 1,743 new the land, and in many cases the name of the plans have been lodged. If any urgent road or street. At the moment the older matter affects a -new plan and a sound reason title is very difficult for the layman to under­ is given, a certificate is issued pending the stand. It gives the description of the land, issue of the new plan. During the year we names the portion, county and parish but have caught up considerably on the lag and no indication as to where it is actually at the beginning of the year we hope to situated or the name of the street or locality have picked up most of the lag in the office. I notice that the Master of Titles is now Mr. FARRELL (Mqryborough) (5.25 putting on the title the road or street if p.m.) : I rise to voicB my appreciation of the there is one, and that is good business for splendid wark being done by the Registrar people who are not in the habit of reading of Tit-les and his officers. I desire also to titles. Many of these people may have a protest against the unfair and unjust criti­ title in their hands but' cannot say whether cism levelled at this department for alleged the land they are looking at is the land delays in the issue of titles. On several described in it, although we realise that a occasions now I have interviewed the Regis­ search may be made, and the fees are reason­ trar in connection with the registration of able because a search in the Titles Office deeds and othe

I am afraid that for the next few years the I have given the reasons for the excess office will be fully occupied in getting out of expenditure. It is not expected that the deeds and it will hardly be able to go into expenditure will be so heavy this year. the question of the conversion of old deeds Vote (Department of P1·emier and Chief of grant. It will take a considerable time. Secretary-Chief Office) agreed to. It would require 20 officers to make any effect on the work of altering them. However, the matter will not be forgotten. AGENT-GENERAL FOR THE STATE. On the subject of fees, the hon. member Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca-Premier) for Maree, as an agent who deals in these ( 5.40 p.m.) : I move- matters, knows that during the past two '' That £17,210 be granted for 'Agent­ .rears they have been considerably reduced General for the State.' '' and we shall continue so far as we possibly can to keep them down to a minimum so The vote is an inci"ease of £1,313. Thei"C that the cost of land will not be increased is an increase in salaries of £598. We are, by exorbitant charges by the Titles Office. of course, anticipating higher costs in trans­ port and some more increases in general Vote (Titles Office) agreed to. charges in London. I want to pay a tribute to the work of the PREMIER AND CHIEF SECRETARY. Agent-General in London. On all sides CHIEF OFFICE. Yisitors of all kinds who go to England never fail to express their appreciation of his Hon. E. M. HANLON (Ithaca-Premier) services. Furthermore, we find from the small (5.36 p.m.): I move- number of migrants we have had so far from '' That £22,497 be granted for 'Premier Britain that they have had every help from and Chief Secretary-Chief Office.' '' the Agent-General's Offire in London, and The amount required this year is £3,377 more that they found everything in the Agent­ than the appropriation last year. The excess General's office very satisfactory. I must of expenditure last year was just on £5,000 say that in the brief period I have been and we are asking for £2,057 less than was Premier I have had very excellent and spent last year. There were a few heavy efficient service from the Agent-General. I commitments last year that could not have am glud of the opp01·tunity of expressing been anticipated. One was in connection with appreciation of his senices. the appointment of the Tourist Development JUr. NICKLIN (lVfurrumba-Leader of Board and its tour throughout the State. the Opposition) (5.4:2 p.m.): I join with vVe also bought a motor-ear for the Sugar the PremiPr in expressing my· commendation Board. That is not all charged against the of the great work done by J\fr. Pike in London State. We bought the car, but there is an on behalf of this State. Xo doubt Queensland arrangement between the Sugar Board and has a verv efficient officer in London in Mr. the State to share the cost. Then there was Pike. Ali sections of the community realise the cost of the eele brations in connection his value and appreciate his services to with the departure of the Governor-General, Queensland. He has had greater responsi­ the Duke of Gloucester, the departure of the bility in recent months than he has had for a Governor, Sir Leslie vVilso_n, and the welcome considerable period particularly through the to the new Governor, Su John Lavarack. greater number of inquhies from people who There were several grants to ex-service men's are coming to this sunny State of ours. organisations-£500 in the case of one. Then Every request made to him, as I know from we had the very unusual expenditure from contacts with people he has met, has been State revenue of £3 in lieu of the King's treated with courtesy and efficiency. No bounty for the birth of triplets. I am not doubt, as a result of the :1cts of Mr. Pike going to say that that 3:ce?unted for ~he and his office in London, a goodwill has been excess of expenditure, but 1t 1s worth notmg built up in Great Britain for Queensland on as a very unusual payment. \Yhich this State will eapit:1lise in the future. Mr. Maher: That was in my electorate. As an instance showing that Mr. Pike does everything possible to help inquirers and ~Ir. HANLON: Is the hon. member meet their requests, I should like to recount going to take credit for that~ I certainly a little o;tory. A young airman who came do not take credit for everything that back to Australia had in the course of his happens in my electorate. The circumstances service in England fallen in love with an in this case did not quite fit in with the English girl. The two wanted to get married. conditions of the King's bounty and the It was very difficult for him to get a pas­ Government paid the £3 themselves. I think sage for her to Queensland as she was still it would have been very wrong and undesir­ in the services. Members of Parliament are able to reject the claim, which was made asked to do all sorts of things, and one job more or less for the honour than the amount. I was asked to do was to get this young lady It was a very unusual sum of money to out to Australia. I did not know how to go appear in the expenditure by a State Govern­ about it but I thought the best thing to do ment-£3 to the mother of triplets. was to dommunicate with Mr. Pike and allow Mr. Maher: The people I speak of actu­ him to work the matter out. He managed to ally got the King's bounty. do all that was asked of him. He arranged for the young lady to get her release from Mr. HANLON: The Government actually the services so that she could come to Aus­ paid this money themselves. tralia. Unfortunately, this story did not have 1226 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

~he happy ending that we very often read of that if the preferential duties broke down it m story books, because before the departure would mean that the embargo would be of the young lady from Great Britain both affected, and the only way the sugar industry parti~s decided that they did not want to get could be continued would be by the importa­ :narned. Therefore the young lady remains tion of black labour into this country. m England and the young man remains here I hope no-one will agree to anything like in Australia. Nevertheless, I quote the inci­ dent as an example of the service Mr. Pike that. Whether the sugar industry survives or gives and how he endeavours to help every­ goes down, I do not think that any Govern­ body in every way he can. ment, authority, or person would agree ~o the introduction of coloured labour to this On behalf of the Country Party I should country for any purpose whatsoever. like to add to the tribute painXI?us to obtain.. immigrants, particularly I wish to say only a few words in connection Immigrants of Bntish stock. As mentioned with this vote. Only last Saturday I recei•ecl by a previous speaker, one of the functions a letter from my daughter in London eulogis­ of the Agent-General in London is to ing the services rendered to her by the Agent­ General's office in London. I thought it facili~ate that .work1 but unfortunately much of his work IS bemg undermined and his would be fitting for me to make reference e~o;·t.s are beh;g handicapped by the adverse to that fact. Criticism of this State current in England at the present time. ~Ir. TURNER (Kelvin Grove) (7.18 p.m.): I wish to associate myself with the remarks Fr?m time to time I read English papers already made about the Agent-General for and Ir; almost every paper there are letters Queensland, but particular~y do I wis~ to !?ay or articles over the names of real or fictitious tribute to Mr. Reg. McAlhstcr, who IS assrst­ persons passing very adverse comment indeed ing Mr. Pike. We had a very able and on the way in which English men and English capable officer over there in the person of women are treated in this country. Mr. E. A. Ferguson, who wished to return to Mr. Maher: In Queensland or in Queensland and is now the director of the Australia~ Queensland Tourist Bureau. He was suc­ ceeded in London by Mr. McAllister and I Mr. ROBERTS: By Australians in have had many favourable reports of his Slueensland and in Australia generally. There work particularly in regard to industries. Is very adverse comment on the administra­ He has interested himself in this matter and tion of this country, by Labour Governments has impressed people very very favourahiy. 1228 Supply. [ASSEMBLY.] Supply.

Only recently I had occasion to write to him our exports, meat, butter, and cheese, and to get some information about a family who so on. He has rendered valuable service in wished to come to Australia. Their relatives the marketing and handling of our exports live in my electorate and have made arrange­ and he and his officers have kept close tag ments for the housing of this f:finily "·hen on them. We were apprised regularly of they get here. I together with these people. c>verything that was happening. vVe were was pleased indeed 11·ith the information 11'0 told everything that we ought to know about received from Mr. McAllister. It gave these the packing and shipping of our various people great satisfaction and it gave me an commodities. Indeed, Mr. Pike has taken a idea of the work he was doing. very keen interest in our products in just the same wav as if he had been a member of Mr. Pike has done an excellent job for a company that was profiting by the market­ Queensland and Australia on many occasions ing and sale of them. and Mr. McAllister is doing a good job for Queensland and Australia as well. We are The ex-service men, particularly the fortunate in having such excellent officers in prisoners of 1Yar when they were releasetl charge of that office. I wish to associate from Germany, had nothing but praise and myself in praise of these gentlemen. appreciation for the way in which the Agent· General's office in London looked after them. Hon. E. .M. HANLON (Ithaca-Premier) Every Queensland boy who was released from (7.20 p.m.): I am very pleased with the the control of the enemy in Europe received expressions from both sides of the Chamber a warm welcome and a helping hand in concerning the work of Mr. Pike and his London at the Agent-General's office. officers in London. There is no doubt that I think we should express also our apprecia· they have given very valuable service to this tion of the way in which he handled the State. Mr. McAllister carried on during Mr. Diggers who married wives in Great Britain Pike's absence of a few months in Queens­ before they came to Queensland. Mr. Pike land. I clo not think anyone will begrudge and his officers kept in e lose touch with these the cost of bringing Mr. Pike to Queensland girls and saw that everything possible was for a rest. done to care for them while they were waiting lUr. Nicklin: That was very wise. for ships to bring them to Queensland and that their accommodation was as good as lUr. HANLON: Unfortunately at that could be provided in the circumstances. time his health was not the best and we Taking it h_v and large, we have eYer.v cleciclecl to bring him back for a holiday and reason to he proud of our Agent·General and a rest. At the same time we had made up his staff in London for the splendid service our minds, as I told the Committee last year, that they have rendered to Queensland. to bring Mr. Pike back to Queensland to enable him to make fresh contacts with the Mr. Wanstall: Why are they acting various industries and people here. That is officers 9 very desirable, and I hope it will not be as ~Ir. HANLON: Mr. McAllister holds an long again before we can bring him out. acting position, but not so Mr. Pike. There was a long lapse of time between his previous visit and the last, but of course the Mr. Wanstali: Why is he acting? war intervened and it was impossible to bring him out earlier. Mr. HANLON: He is coming back. Vote (Agent·General for the State) agreed lUr. Ev~ns: He was a very sick man. to . .iUr. HANLON: He was a very sick man. We should have liked to have him at Geneva, CO·ORDINATOR-GE:

Mr. Macdonald: Including fish traps? industries are thrown out of work. I know the Co-ordinator-General has been very con· Mr. HANLON: I know that the hon. cerned at the position that has arisen from member sees the dam only as a source of time to time, particularly since the end of the amusement in the catching of fish. We look war. I have had several discussions with him upon it as the emancipation of the Brisbane en this matter, because it vitally affects my gardens, amongst other things. We have had area, particularly the wet belt of the Innis­ for many years in Brisbane beautiful gardens fail-Tully district, where there are five and a climate that can give prolific growth, sugar mills employing a large number of men but we have been prevented from having who are thrown ont of employment annually. beauty in this city as we should like because This year when the mills conclude the ernshing of the lack of water. You continue to hose season-which will be a protracted one m,-ing your garden with one eye over your shoulder to the shortage of labour, although the erop looking for Gandhi's inspectors, as the people will be lighter-these men will su

stressed its importance-to produce more to Other areas have been irrigated. The few cope with the very important problem not only dams that have been construeted in the of establishing our own people in employment Lockyer River have enabled the farmers there and expanding our industries but of nroviding to irrigate and be assured of a erop year for immigrants who will arrive in the very in and y~ar out. The scheme that has been near future. But for the shipping position we undertaken on the border by the Queensland should have a consiegetable many crops besides sugar-cane. Such a scheme gardens in the Burdekin area. and were able would probably cost millions of pounds, but to supply large quantities of veg€ta bles to the increase in our primary production would their men. H you go to the' Walsh River, be immense. It would be almost impossible where dams and irrigation schemes are being to assess the value of such a scheme to the put in, you can grow eyery crop; you can people. gro,,- peanuts for which the world is crying Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply 1231 out, and you can grow tobacco, tomatoes, Mr. BRUCE: I quite agree, with the hon. anc citrus fruit. You can grow the citrus member for Mirani that it had to come sooner fruit we required to make true fruit drinks, or later, but it is coming sooner than it would drinks that we do not get at present. have come had an anti-Labour Government We have to take the rubbish we get for been in power. This is a very vital matter ourselves and our children. Citrus fruits can for people on the land. Water is the life­ be grown virtually all over Queensland, and blood of the agricultural and pastoral indus­ our youngsters and ourselves should be getting tries and no more important work could be the pure fruit juices instead of the rubbish carried out than the conservation of the that is being soJ.d to us today. water that in a large measure now is allowed to dry up in the bore drains or run to sea. The TEMPORARY CHAIRlUAN: Order! I hope the hon. gentleman will debate the I want to express my appreciation of the matter before the Committee. work of Mr. Kemp and his staff and to emphasise that the problem of water conserva­ Mr. BRUCE: I am speaking about the tion is one of the most important Parliament conservation of water in the Burdekin area. could consider. It is the Co-ordinator-General who controls the Burdekin River scheme. ~Ir. .FARRELL (Maryborough) (7.54 p.m.) : On another vote the Opposition moved Citrus fruits can be grown prolifically only an amendment as a protest against alleged bv the conservation of water. I said in my waste of time by Government members in opening remarks that by the damming of the discussing the Estimates of the Department Burdekin River water would become avail­ of Justice. I now want to charge them with able, not only for pastoral areas but also for insincerity. They show a very strong dis­ the further development of the citrus-fruit inclination to discuss this important vote so industry in the Charters Towers district, vitally associated with the development of where excellent fruit is grown at the present the State. They are either insincere or they time and where the finest grapes in Queens­ are lazy, too lazv to look after the interests land are produced. of their electors: Hon. members opposite attempt to put the There is no electorate in Queensland in case for the farmers from time to time and whose development the work of the Co­ querulously ask what the Labour Party is Ordinator-General of Public Works does not doing to help them. Do they not know that play a very prominent part. water is the lifeblood of the agricultural It does not matter whether the work is industry~ The farmer is not to be saved by the payment of Government subsidy or by associated with the development of this State the complaints by hon. members opposite that in general or with local-authority work, the they are starving and are really mendicants. most important person involved in it is the They can be saved only by a plentiful supply Co-ordinator-General of Public Works. Let of water. Do hon. members opposite expect me refer to something I know of showing the farmers to struggle and battle along the· lack of planning on the part of local facing droughts for all time? Are they authorities. If one thing more than another E'atisfied to allow the farmers to be wiped out should interest members of this Committee, it by droughts and then to come crying to the should be the de•·elopment of local-authoritv Government for assistance on their behalf"l areas, which offer a great scope. We found What ha·ppened in the south-western dis­ local authorities making great mistakes in the triets of the State~ Hundreds of thou­ olden days because of lack of planning. In sands of pounds' worth of wealth my own electorate today I am paying for a have been destroyed because of a lack public work done many years ago, simply of adequate water. But hon. members because no Co-ordinator-General of Public opposite sit in their places in silence. They Works existed who could guide local-authority do not care what happens to the farmers. development. I am unable to get the Govern­ They laugh although this is a serious matter. ment to adopt the view I hold in the matter I s'ea the hdn. membe!r for Stanley sitting in his I am about to speak of-the Granville Bridge place and grinning like a hyena. (Laughter.) over the Mary River at Maryborough, but if They do not care what happens to the we had had a Co-ordinator-General of Public farmers. They would sooner have them Works in those ;lays, many mistakes of those facing droughts and coming to the Govern­ days would not have been committed, nor ment for relief than give them a plentiful would he have allowed a local authority to supply of water so as to make them happy escape its responsibilities. We had a local and prosperous. authority in the city of Maryborough-a great industrial area-that at one time comprised It is what the Labour Government do 17 ~ square miles. Today its area is 5~ square for the farmers that keeps this Govern­ miles only. That is something that would ment in power year in and year out. not have been permitted in the ordinary The farmers realise that we are doing course of events had there then been a something for them. Indeed, when they Co-ordinator-General of Public Works watch­ hear of the Burdekin scheme every ing over the interests of local authorities. farmer in the North knows that the Labour Government are living up to their past record Today we :find the Co-orhms. If that plan has been approved investigations mentioned in the item for that by the Co-ordinator-General the authority is purpose. conveved hy him to the relevant department. ltlr. Maher: One law for that. side and Conscqueutly, as a result of proper planning one for this. through the Co-ordinator-General of Public Works and his examination of every project, The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: No; I we do not find, as in the olden days, local am not objecting to hon. members on my left authorities biting off more than they can doing the same as hon. members on my right. ehew. Any lengthy debate on the Burdekin Bridge or other specific work will be in order only on Mr. Russell: Because they' did not get another vote. enough money. There is something wrong with the financing of it. Mr. LUCKINS (Maree) (8.4 p.m.): I will conform to the rule of de bate; in fact I do not think I have ever broken it. The Govern­ Mr. F ARRELL: I •Will leave that to the ment have set out certain work for the high financier from Dalby. I believe on Co-ordinator-General and amongst the many previous occasions in the development of projects is the building of bridges, the build­ Dalby they have done a magnificent job. ing of highways, the building of the Somerset From what I understand the city of Dalby Dam, the proposed bridge at St. Lucia, and was planned in the same way as the city of many other works. Maryborough was planned. The point I want to make is that no matter what is done today, The TEMPORARY CHAIRMAN: I l1ave it must receive the approval of the Co­ already given a ruling as to special works ordinator-General of Public Works before and investigations. any money can be made available. That is the most important point associated with the Mr. LUCKINS: Investigation is part of development of either local-authority or the work of the Co-ordinator-General with Government works. a view to building up in Queensland public works of which we should be very proud. During the course of his speech the hon. Queensland has had self-govemment for member for the Tableland made a fine con­ approximately 90 years, .an I think we have tribution to what I consider-and I think done very well considering the conditions that every other hon. member considers-is bound have prevailed over that long interval of up with the future development of our State time-wars, Labour Governments and other -water conservation that is taking place things-but I am, not c.omplaining about under the Co-ordinator-General of Public that. Works. The careful planning for the develop· The Secretary for Public Instruction put ment of our State under the guidance of forward a very good proposal, that the Mr. Kemp and his various officers is going Department of Irrigation be brought under on all the time, and they are doing a very the control of the Co-ordinator-General. I excellent job. - stress that because it would be in the interests Let us see exactly what the Co-Ol·dinator­ of that department to be brought under that General of Public Works is doing towards control so that the Co-ordinator-General would the construction of homes throughout the have control of all major public works in State. He and his staff are doing a this State. magnificent job in planning carefully to see But I rose primarily to call attention to that the materials coming forward are being public IYOrks that require the Co-ordinator­ distributed so as to meet the requirements General's attention. This is the capital city of the homes that are being constructed of Queensland and public works are essential throughout Queensland. in the development of the State and the Supply. [6 NovEMBER.] Supply. 1233 c1ties; they must grow side by side. In have sub-departments to deal with rivers, regard to investigation for public works bridges, and other public works, to deal with som<:Jthing should be done in relation to rail· local-authority works, and so on. ways obstructing the highways of this city. In this I refer particularly to the investiga­ Mr. Hanlon: You are advocating cen­ tion of the removal of railways crossing the tralisation now. highways that give ingress and egress to the 1\'Ir. LUCKINS: No. He could have his capital city, an