Dan Rather Reports
Episode Number: 820
Episode Title: The Big Interview with Roger Daltrey
Description: The Who’s Roger Daltrey — one of the greatest frontmen in one of the biggest rock and roll bands of all time — looks back on his career and talks about his work today with teens who have cancer. Pop singer Cody Simpson joins the interview to talk about his role working with Daltrey on Teen Cancer America. Daltrey also offers insight into the rocky roads of rock and roll, speaking intimately about his sometimes tumultuous relationship with Who guitarist, Pete Townshend.
ACT 1: TEASE
MUSICAL INTRODUCTION
We'll be fighting in the streets With our children at our feet And the morals that they worship will be gone And the men who spurred us on Sit in judgment of all wrong...
DAN RATHER (VOICE OVER)
TONIGHT ON THE BIG INTERVIEW...THE WHO’S ROGER DALTREY
RATHER
If someone from some different cosmos said, “Who are you”? How would you answer that?
ROGER DALTREY, THE WHO I’ve heard that. (LAUGHER)
RATHER
Who are you?
DALTREY
Isn’t there an “F” between the - (LAUGHTER). Ah – who am I? I’m just a working class guy from Shepherd’s Bush who – who got lucky.
1 RATHER (VOICE OVER)
ONE OF THE GREATEST FRONTMEN, IN ONE OF THE BIGGEST ROCK AND ROLL BANDS OF ALL TIME
ACT 2: RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THERE WILL ALWAYS BE DEBATE OVER THE GREATEST ROCK BAND OF ALL TIME ...THE BRITISH ROCK INVASION THAT BEGAN IN THE EARLY 1960’S WITH THE BEATLES... AND THE ROLLING STONES... WAS QUICKLY FOLLOWED BY A GROUP THAT MANY BELIEVE WAS THE BEST THERE EVER WAS... FOUR YOUNG MEN FROM ENGLAND CALLED SIMPLY “THE WHO”... IT WAS ALMOST 50 YEARS AGO THAT ROGER DALTREY, PETE TOWNSHEND, JOHN ENTWISTLE AND KEITH MOON BEGAN PERFORMING TOGETHER IN LONDON... THEY HAVE SINCE SOLD OVER A HUNDRED MILLION RECORDS…
DALTREY
Ever since I was a young boy, I played the silver ball...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE SIGNATURE VOICE OF THE WHO BELONGS TO ROGER DALTREY...DALTREY IS NOW 69 YEARS OLD. I MET HIM AT THE GIBSON GUITAR CENTER IN NEW YORK WHERE WE DISCUSSED HIS SINGING, HIS CAREER AND THE CHARITY WORK THAT IS NOW CLOSEST TO HIS HEART - THE TEENAGE CANCER TRUST, AN ORGANIZATION THAT ADVOCATES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE WITH CANCER
DALTREY
Hey! (greeting teens)
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
FOR DECADES HE HAS HELPED TO CREATE MORE THAN 20 TEEN SPECIFIC CLINICS AND HOSPITALS ACROSS GREAT BRITAIN. THIS YEAR HE’S BRINGING THE CAUSE TO THE TEENAGERS OF OUR COUNTRY
2 RATHER
You know what I'm interested, how did you get interested in this?
DALTREY
I got interested 'cause my-- it was my-- (LAUGH) my own GP, my doctor that started it. And also, it see-- my life, I mean, I've had a dream life, but-- you know, bein' in a rock and roll band, bein' a musician, doing the one thing I love more than anything in the world. Singin'. And earning a living. I mean, it doesn't get better than that. But we couldn't have done it without the support of teenagers. The whole of the rock business, the whole-- generally, the whole of the music business-- is founded on the backs of teenagers. Even today. You know, 'cause it's driven forward by the support of teenagers. And I thought, "Well, it just makes so much sense that-- f-- the-- the music business, f-- for instance, should get behind this because we rely on them." I also saw the simplicity of the idea.
You know, the way medicine works, you're either a child or an adult. And the-- now they kind of say, "Well, we've got adolescent programs." But those adolescent programs in your country go from 13-40. And of course a 13 year-old hasn't got much in common at all with a 40 year- old. So we isolated the 13-25 age group because for various reasons, teens, they get very rare cancers, generally, some of the rarest cancers. Because of their age and-- the speed that they're growing, they get really aggressive cancers. Because they're so active, they also suffer terribly from late diagnosis. You know, “come back in six weeks. I mean, it's only prob-- bruised yourself playing football,” you know? So in all-- all those respects the impact of the disease is-- is-- is-- is-- is worse.
Plus the psychological effect. There they are, just coming into the age where they're gonna go out and really enjoy life and they get hit with this whammy. And it-- you know, never mind the spot on your nose. Which-- you know, I can remember used to be quite a big deal (LAUGH) when I was 15. They're gonna lose their hair. They're gonna go through all this dreadful treatment. It's a nightmare. So by isolating this group-- and we're puttin' them together in-- in-- in s-- specialized units, we've managed to really improve their wellbeing. We do not p-- we don't change the medicine. That's done by the-- the-- the medical profession. But this is about environment, support. Especially support.
RATHER
You know, as you talk, I'm thinking about the journey you've made in life. Your life journey. When you were working in what's basically a steel mill environment, kinda steel town.
3
DALTREY
Oh, I love that. RATHER
The kind of equivalent to our Pittsburgh or Cleveland or Detroit.
DALTREY
Well, it was-- it was tin bashing. You know, it was-- yeah. But it's same thing, yeah.
RATHER
Exactly. And by any objective analysis, working class background. Did you ever imagine that you would reach the point where you had the name, you had the money to accomplish this kind of good? We're talking about 25 hospitals already in existence in Great Britain. Another eight or ten being completed. Projection of over 40. Now moving to the U.S. Did you ever in your wildest imagination-- DALTREY
No. You can't. You can just do what you feel is right at the time and do your best. And you get- - you know-- I always look at it, you-- you get one shot. And-- and you really do. You know, you get the chance; you have to give it all you've got. And-- and when I got really involved heavily on the front line of do-- doin'-- promotin' this in-- in Britain, I -- didn't ever quite understand the meaning of being profiled to something. I was just out to raise money. But you-- of course, the money is one thing. It's the profilin'. The-- gettin' people to understand what you're tryin' to do so that you build a community of support. That's what becomes important. And that to me, was-- an eye opener. I never expected that. I mean, it was absolutely incredible. You know, how-- how the whole communities come together. And the-- the parents, who-- who suffer-- suffer terrible isolation-- if these things aren't there. All of a sudden, they're-- they're-- there's tremendous amount of support comes in. And I was just blown away by it.
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
ROGER DALTREY AND HIS BAND MATES CAME FROM HUMBLE BEGINNINGS -- DALTREY, PETE TOWNSHEND AND JOHN ENTWISTLE WERE SCHOOLMATES FROM A WORKING CLASS PART OF WEST LONDON. KEITH MOON, THE GROUP’S WILDLY ENERGETIC DRUMMER, WHO SOME CLAIM WAS THE BEST ROCK
4 DRUMMER OF ALL TIME, WOULD JOIN THEM A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER... IN LATE 1964, THE WHO BOOKED A WEEKLY GIG AT THE POPULAR “MARQUEE CLUB” IN LONDON... THEY WERE GIVEN TUESDAY NIGHTS, CHARACTERISTICALLY THE LEAST BUSY NIGHT AT THE CLUB. BUT, WITH THIS BAND, THAT WOULD SOON CHANGE, ESPECIALLY WITH THE SUCCESS OF THEIR FIRST HIT SINGLE, “I CAN’T EXPLAIN.”
THEIR FIRST ALBUM WAS RELEASED IN 1965... IT WAS A COMBINATION OF BLUES, BUBBLE GUM POP AND THIS... THE SONG, “MY GENERATION,” WOULD GO ON TO DEFINE THE YOUNG BAND’S SOUND AND ATTITUDE... IT WAS GUITARIST PETE TOWNSHEND WHO WROTE THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE WHO’S MUSIC -- MANY HAVE CALLED HIM A CREATIVE GENIUS....
THROUGH THE YEARS DALTREY AND TOWNSHEND'S RELATIONSHIP HAS BEEN FAMOUSLY COMBATIVE, CLASSIC ROCK STARS WHO CLASHED AS MUCH AS THEY COLLABORATED... BUT DECADES LATER, DALTREY LOOKS BACK ON THEIR JOURNEY AND CELEBRATES ALL THE BUMPS ON THE ROAD TO STARDOM.
RATHER
I wanna get back to beginnings. And the start of the journey, if you will. If someone from some different cosmos said, "Who are you?" How would you answer?
DALTREY
I’ve heard that. (LAUGHS)
RATHER
Who are you?
DALTREY
Isn't there an F between them? (LAUGHTER) Who am I? I'm just a working class guy from Shepherd's Bush who-- who got lucky. I got very, very lucky. You know, I have-- had an incredibly rich life. I'm-- I'm-- I don't think I'm very much different from an-- anyone else. But I just got lucky in the breaks. And I think the-- that's-- a lot of life is like that.
5
RATHER
Well, you know, one definition of luck is “where preparation meets opportunity.” That's what some people call luck.
DALTREY
Yeah. Well, maybe, yeah... But I don't-- I-- I-- I don't really know about preparation. 'Cause-- I just always had a hunger to be a singer. I had a hunger to be a guitarist. We h-- we were so poor I had to make a guitar. And, you know, we couldn't afford to buy one. So-- but I wanted one that bad, I made one. And it worked. And I learned to play the—
RATHER
By the way-- DALTREY
--the guitar.
RATHER
I've heard that. Is that—
DALTREY
That's how. RATHER
--true or just legend, that you made your own guitar?
DALTREY
No, no, no, it's true. Absolutely true. RATHER
Well, tell me about that.
DALTREY
6
Well, it was-- when I first saw Elvis with a guitar, I thought, "Well, no, that's-- that looks cool." And of course he had-- I didn't understand it, but he had a guitar, you know-- with-- a leather case, too. A leather case on it. I only that was the g-- guitar. So, (LAUGH) "Wow, this is a cool looking thing." And-- so I thought, "Well, I gotta have a guitar. I'm gonna be a singer. I've gotta have a guitar," you know? So I went out and-- and-- stood outside the shop window that had a guitar hanging in it. It was this old Spanish guitar. And-- measured it through the window. And bought sheets of plywood. And s-- and my family were build-- builders. So there-- there was always tools lyin' about. Like, you know, a spoke chain and a draw knife and all those things. So I made myself a neck. Put-- put the frets on it. Managed to get the stuff to build the guitar. And-- but I didn't realize that measuring it through the window of the shop, (LAUGH) had amplified the size. You know, it's big all the way around, anyway. And-- and I also didn't understand that the-- the case-- on Elvis's guitar was made of leather, it wasn't part of the guitar. Because I-- I-- I stuck loads of, kind of, furniture carvings all over mine to make it look (LAUGH) But-- you know, if you want something that bad, you'll do it. If you're driven
RATHER
The making of the guitar...
DALTREY
Yeah...
RATHER
...turned out to be the making of you.
DALTREY
Yeah, it did. I sang at-- in the church choir when I was five, six years old. But that all kind of stopped. But I was always a reasonable singer. I've always-- and-- and I've kind of got a distinctive voice. So that kind-- RATHER
There's an understatement--
DALTREY
That kind—
7
RATHER
--you kind of have a distinctive—
DALTREY
But it-- it-- RATHER
--voice.
DALTREY
--came-- that-- that always came naturally. It always (UNINTEL). It was always incredibly natural for me, that. The guitaring was hard.
RATHER
Well, tell me about-- you saw Elvis, what, you saw him on a news reel?
DALTREY
Yeah, just on black and white-- BBC TV. Wow, and I thought, "Just like John Lennon, you know? That's what I wanna be." Everybody wanted to be-- (LAUGH) like, "I'm gonna do that." The Beatles came out of nowhere. That was-- that was what was so wonderful about it. When they hit, they were such a fresh sound. And-- and again, when, what-- what-- what amazes me is when you first hear those early Who records, again, where did it come from? I mean, Pete's guitar style. It's-- it was so different than anything else that was out there. But you can still hear the fact that we-- before we were playin' our own stuff, we were playin' Muddy Waters and we-- you know, John Lee Hooker and all that stuff. And-- and the Everly Brothers. And Elvis. It was all in there somewhere.
RATHER
Right.
DALTREY
8 That's what I love about music today. You can-- in-- even in, you know, hip hop and rap. You can sample your stuff and use it but those influences are all still there. It's wonderful.
RATHER
Well, I certainly don't wanna be hypocritical. I don't know a lot about music. I appreciate music and a lot of different kinds of music. But something in an interview you did some time ago stuck with me. You said that when you first started working with The Who, you'd seen Elvis; you'd made your own guitar. Now you have a group. And you're putting together new music. I think your quote was, "I realized this music was coming from a different place in the psyche." What do you mean by that?
DALTREY
Well, most people were writin' kind of love songs. And then when Pete wrote his songs, there was-- there was, like-- a different depth to the words. And the way he used a metaphor. And I thought, you know, "The only way I'm gonna do this is to totally-- totally dedicate my life to inhabiting these songs. And get to the root of what he was feeling at the time." Which he, incidentally, can sometimes make (LAUGH) quite a miserable time of life.
RATHER
But, of course, your-- the combination of you with-- Pete Townshend is the stuff of legend. Making of two icons. It's been a long road with your old friend, Townshend. And as I understand it, a pretty rugged road. True that the two of you actually sometimes fought?
DALTREY
Oh, yeah. But all bands fight. That-- you know, you-- you-- generally bands are made up with four-- you know, alpha males. Over-testosteroned. Over-egoed. And it's just, you know-- it's a part of being young. But when you're young, fighting is fun.
RATHER
Well, I understand you knew how to fight.
DALTREY
No, I-- not really. I-- you know, I-- I was a good street fighter I-- I when I-- you know? I had-- there's something about little guys. They can-- they-- they're quick.
9
RATHER
Right. Well, when did you first meet Pete Townshend?
DALTREY
I met him at school. I-- I-- I was in the year above him. And of course, you couldn't hide Pete in a crowd. He's-- I mean, especially in those days. I mean-- I always say-- and he does-- hates it when I say it. But he's like a nose on a stick. (LAUGH) But it-- I mean, but I-- I-- I love the way he looks. And he-- he just glowed and he stood out. And John Entwhistle, indeed. And they were both in the same year. And-- same thing with John. He had a quality to him that you couldn't hide him in-- in a crowd. It was really weird.
RATHER
One of you said you've had your ups and downs but it'd been a long journey. What's the state of the relationship now?
DALTREY
It's good. It's g-- we're not close friends friends. But, you know, I-- I-- I-- they're like a s-- I've never had a brother. But so I kind of feel like he's my brother. And we don't need to see each other all the time. But it-- but there's-- there's-- a good understand-- we talk to each other very civilly now. We-- it's good. It's good. I like it. Yeah, there's a lot of respect between us.
ACT 3:
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
BY THE TIME THIS CONCERT WAS FILMED AT THE 1970 ISLE OF WIGHT FESTIVAL IN GREAT BRITAIN, THE WHO HAD BECOME ENORMOUSLY POPULAR... THEY ALREADY HAD 4 STUDIO ALBUMS UNDER THEIR BELTS, BUT IT WAS THEIR LIVE PERFORMANCES, LIKE THIS ONE, THAT FANS ESPECIALLY LOVED...
ALMOST FROM THE BEGINNING, PETE TOWNSHEND BECAME INFAMOUS FOR HIS ONSTAGE THEATRICS. IN THE CLUBS OF LONDON, THOUSANDS OF FANS WOULD COME OUT TO WITNESS TOWNSHEND SMASH HIS GUITAR AT THE END OF A SET... THE WHOLE GIMMICK STARTED OUT AS AN ACCIDENT - BUT THE FANS CAME TO EXPECT IT...... IN JUNE OF 1967, WHEN THE WHO PLAYED THE MONTEREY POP
10 FESTIVAL, TOWNSHEND DESTROYED HIS GUITAR AT THE END OF THEIR SET, THRILLING THE FANS AND STUNNING THE STAGEHANDS IN WHAT WAS THEIR LARGEST AMERICAN CONCERT AUDIENCE SO FAR... song clip Talkin’ bout my generation
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
AND WHEN THE BAND SANG “MY GENERATION” ON THE SMOTHERS BROTHERS COMEDY HOUR JUST A FEW MONTHS LATER, AMERICAN TELEVISION AUDIENCES GOT TO EXPERIENCE THE THRILL OF THE WHO IN LIVE PERFORMANCE... THIS TIME THE SONG FINISHED OFF WITH THE EXPLOSION OF KEITH MOON’S DRUM SET...BY THE TIME THEY HIT THE HISTORIC MUSIC FESTIVAL WOODSTOCK IN THE SUMMER OF 1969, THE WHO WAS THE EMBODIMENT OF AN EMERGING YOUTH ROCK AND ROLL MOVEMENT.
RATHER
I wanna get back to beginnings. How has your life as a child, where you grew up, we said working class neighborhood, steel town kind of environment, how has that influenced your life and your music?
DALTREY
Well, this business is-- is-- is-- it's hard to hang onto that initial thing of who you are when you start in those first few years. And the only way I can explain fame when people ask me, it's-- I said, "Well, it's-- you imagine you're walking down-- you know, 5th Avenue. And everybody's walking the same way. And you're darting along with the crowd and everybody's walking. And then all of a sudden, you get a hit record and you're on TV. And it's like someone throws a switch and then the whole crowd turns round and starts walking towards you. And you walk-- you're walking into them." And it's-- what's so strange is that you don't change, but they change towards you. So your whole-- the whole fabric of what you stand on in the world is shifting. And-- and you go, "Whoa, how do I deal with this?" And you do get a few wobbly years. It's very, very difficult. But, touch wood, I-- I-- I didn't fall for some of the scams that-- that people kind of get trapped in. And-- and-- and fall over with.
RATHER
11 Well, you said there were wobbly times, I think you described it. Looking back on it, what do you think was the biggest mistake you made once fame hit
DALTREY
I don't think I made any mistakes. I didn't know how to-- I didn't know how to not be a rock star when I was plunged into to the lead part of Tommy the film. I didn't know how to stop bein' a rock star and become a TV personality. Expected to do interviews and all-- and that's-- that's stuff you have to learn, you know? When you're a singer, you can hide behind the word of the song and you-- you can be all these things. Or in-- wherever you are in your head, you can be. But, of course, once you get out there and have to start talking on other s-- kinds of stuff, it-- it was nerve wracking indeed, I'll tell you. And it can go to your head. And I'm sure for a few years there, I-- I was a really obnoxious little piece of-- (LAUGHTER)
RATHER
Well, at least in a distant way, I can relate to that. Because when you're on television every day, whether you deserve to be or not, whether you're doing good work or not, it-- there is that quality to it, if you're not careful, narcissism takes over.
DALTREY
That's right.
RATHER
It's all about you. You get the proverbial big head. And the next thing you know, you're not a very likeable person. You don't even like yourself if you're not careful. Did you go through any of that?
DALTREY
Yup. Yup. Yup. Definitely. I know f-- but then, you kind of think, "Well, let's-- let's calm down a bit here. Let's just--" and I'm pretty happy with myself now. I even wake up days and say, (UNINTEL). RATHER
When did you realize that you'd made it big? Was there a moment? Or was it-- a culmination of-- of a number of things?
12
DALTREY
I don't ever care about making it big. It's just-- it's doing the thing I love to do. And it-- it didn't matter if it's this big or this big. You know, what's makin' it big? I—
RATHER
Making it big is—
DALTREY
--don't see it as that, you know?
RATHER
Making a lot of money? Seeing—
DALTREY
The money is very useful. I mean, I-- I-- the money's been fantastic and all that. And that has-- has brought me a really great-- balance in my life that I could never have had without money. Because I-- I came-- came from-- you know, a rough neighborhood in-- in London. And I-- when it got crazy in the '70s, one of the things that saved me, I bought a farm. And I escaped. And really did-- did the farming stuff. I mean, I really did drive the tractors. And I-- then-- and then I got interested in agriculture. And I bought trout farms and salmon farms and learned about the science, 'cause the very early days of-- of that science of agricul-- culture. And-- that got my-- that got my-- got my feet back on the ground of re-- re-- real working people again. You know, and working alongside them. And we get on great. And that-- that saved my life in a lotta ways. And-- and a good family, of course. song up And Tommy doesn’t know what day it is He doesn’t who Jesus was or what praying is...
13
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
ASK ANYONE TO NAME A WHO ALBUM, AND ODDS ARE, THEY’LL ANSWER “TOMMY”... IN MANY WAYS, “TOMMY” BECAME AS BIG AS THE WHO ITSELF... song up Tommy can you hear me?
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
TOMMY WAS RELEASED AS A DOUBLE ALBUM IN MAY OF 1969 AND WAS BILLED AS A “ROCK OPERA”... WIDELY CONSIDERED TO BE PETE TOWNSHEND’S COMPOSITIONAL MASTERPIECE, “TOMMY” TELLS THE STORY OF A BOY WHO IS STRICKEN “DEAF, DUMB AND BLIND” AFTER WITNESSING A MURDER... song up Can you hear me? How can he be saved? See me...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
TOWNSHEND HAS SAID THAT DALTREY’S PERFORMANCE AS TOMMY ELEVATED HIM TO AN ENTIRELY NEW LEVEL AS A SINGER... ONE WHO WAS ABLE TO INTIMATELY CONNECT WITH HIS AUDIENCE... song up Listening to you, I hear the music, gazing at you...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
AND CONNECT HE DID... FOR NEARLY TWO YEARS, DALTREY AND THE WHO PERFORMED TOMMY IN MAJOR CONCERT HALLS AND OPERA HOUSES AROUND THE WORLD -- INCLUDING NEW YORK’S FAMED METROPOLITAN OPERA...
NEWSCASTER
If there are any furs in the audience, the odds are they’re second hand and instead of evening clothes and jewels; you get blue jeans and love beads.
14 song clip from film Extra! Extra! Pinball bonanza Deaf, dumb and blind kid Makes the big game...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
IN 1975, TOMMY WAS TURNED INTO A FILM... IT WAS A CANDY-COLORED, STAR- STUDDED PRODUCTION FEATURING ROGER DALTREY... MAKING HIS BIG-SCREEN DEBUT... IN THE TITLE ROLE song clip from film Listening to you, I get the music Gazing at you, I get the heat...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
AND IN THE 1990’S... TOMMY WAS REIMAGINED ONCE AGAIN, THIS TIME AS A BROADWAY THEATRICAL PRODUCTION... clip from Tonys It’s a boy, Mrs. Walker, it’s a boy
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE CAST PERFORMED AT THE 1993 TONY AWARDS... song clip How do you think he does it? I don’t know...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THE SHOW TOOK HOME FIVE TONYS - INCLUDING ONE FOR BEST ORIGINAL SCORE FOR PETE TOWNSHEND... I ASKED DALTREY TO TALK A LITTLE ABOUT THE THEATRICAL ADAPTATION - IN WHICH HE DID NOT APPEAR.
15
RATHER
Tell me about Tommy, the-- the musical. How did that happen? I mean, you'd made the record—But in the 1990s, this became a big hit in both Great Britain and this country.
DALTREY
Well, that-- that was really Pete. I mean, it's-- he wrote Tommy. And he-- they wrote it as a stage-- theatre piece. A Broadway musical. I don't think it was-- I think it should've been more succe-- the music-- the quality of the-- quality of the music and the-- the vision of the piece for me, it should've been bigger than it was, actually. I was-- I was a little bit disappointed. I didn't- - never was o-- over in love with that production, I have to say. And I'm allowed to say that.
RATHER
But you recognize now that it was a landmark in the theatre industry.
DALTREY
Yeah. I w-- well, I don't-- I don't-- I don't know, was it?
RATHER Yes, in the sense that—
DALTREY
I was a bit worried about the o-- it never quite touched-- it never-- it didn't move me.
RATHER
But you recognize it—
DALTREY
And I worried about that. I worried about that. It did not move me. And the-- every time I hear the music on its own, it moves me. No m-- matter who's playing it. His music moved me. There was something about the theatrical piece that didn't move me. And that's what worried me. And I can't tell you what it was. I don't know-- I don't know. You know, I'm just—
16
RATHER
But you realize it did move a lot of other people?
DALTREY
It did seem to, yeah. It seemed to. But it should've been over 10 years, not two.
ACT 4:
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
THIS DYNAMIC PERFORMANCE OF “WON’T GET FOOLED AGAIN” WAS SADLY THE LAST TIME THESE FOUR MEMBERS OF THE WHO WOULD PERFORM TOGETHER...
IN SEPTEMBER OF 1978, THEIR BELOVED WILD MAN DRUMMER, KEITH MOON, DIED OF A DRUG OVERDOSE - AT AGE 32... MOON WAS KNOWN FOR HIS ECCENTRIC AND SOMETIMES SELF DESTRUCTIVE BEHAVIOR... BUT FOR YEARS TO COME, HE WOULD ALSO BE KNOWN AS ONE OF THE GREATEST ROCK AND ROLL DRUMMERS OF ALL TIME.
THE LOSS OF MOON WAS MONUMENTAL FOR THE BAND... OVER THE NEXT SEVERAL DECADES, THE WHO WOULD SPLIT UP AND RECONVENE WITH DIFFERENT DRUMMERS AND EVEN ADDITIONAL MUSICIANS...
BASS PLAYER JOHN ENTWISTLE DIED IN 2002... JUST ONE NIGHT BEFORE THE WHO WAS SET TO START A CONCERT TOUR IN THE US... LEAVING DALTREY AND TOWNSHEND AS THE LAST TWO REMAINING MEMBERS OF THE WORLD FAMOUS WHO.
JACK BLACK
When I was 10 years old, I fell in love with The Who...
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
BUT THE WHO CONTINUES TO BE CELEBRATED FOR THEIR MUSICAL ACHIEVEMENTS... LIKE HERE IN 2008... WHEN DALTREY AND TOWNSHEND WERE RECIPIENTS OF A KENNEDY CENTER HONOR FOR ARTISTIC MERIT.
17
THEY’VE PERFORMED AT NUMEROUS BENEFITS LIKE THE CONCERT FOR NEW YORK A MONTH AFTER 9/11, AND HEADLINED MAJOR GIGS LIKE THEIR PYRO PACKED HALFTIME SHOW AT THE SUPERBOWL BACK IN 2010.
Nat break from super bowl
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
ROGER DALTREY IS SHOWING NO SIGNS OF SLOWING DOWN. JUST THIS PAST SUMMER, HE AND TOWNSEND ROCKED GIANT ARENAS IN A 12 CITY EUROPEAN TOUR.
RATHER
Well, I recognize and you will too, this is the kinda question you get asked all the time, but of the music you've recorded, what's your own favorite?
DALTREY
I like all of it. I don't-- really got a favorite. I mean, what's so great about our albums, they're all particular times in our life. We didn't make many albums. And so the-- what we going through at the time is very much reflected in the music. So I like it-- I like them all for that reason. They're all different colors and different sentiments. But if I had to choose one song, it would be Behind Blue Eyes. And because I just remember the day. It was the day my dog got killed. And it-- she-- she was-- he-- she was a pointer. And she got run over. And she had blue eyes. (LAUGHTER) And her name was Nellie. (LAUGHTER) So I was in-- I was-- I was very, very upset, to say the least. And it comes out. You can hear it in the vocal.
RATHER
You know, I'm thinking you-- I'm sitting here listening to you and smiling with you and laughing with you about life and times. How much you have seen. How much of the world you've seen. How much of the world you have lived. Let's talk about art and music. Over the span of your lifetime, how has it changed? How has the perception of it changed?
DALTREY
God. Well-- oh, that's a very-- that's a deep question. Dan, what are you doin' to me here? (LAUGH) I mean, the music business now is unrecognizable. I mean, it's-- it's almost
18 disintegrated. Very difficult for young musicians now to even make a living on the road. It's just-- a few get lucky, still. But that's becoming fewer and fewer. Films, especially American films, I think-- it's clear there's a slight decline there, too. Compared with European films. Not-- not TV, America's very good. But film industry is-- I don't know. And the internet, of course, is-- has made people-- especially when they're on-- with the iPhone, bringing that in-- it worries me that-- that they're-- they're missing their lives. Their-- their life is now here and not here. And I-- and that kinda scares the shit outta me. I mean, really. What worries me more than anything is they seem to be so busy all the time. And you know and I know the time is-- the times that you come up with the epiphanies and the-- and the solving of solutions and the sorting yourself out are the times when you're doing nothing. I very rarely (LAUGH) see people doing nothing these days.
RATHER
And particularly young people. What-- what a strong point.
DALTREY
Young people, yeah. Where's the time for contemplation?
RATHER
What an interesting point. 'Cause you're right, that creativity so often comes when you're doing nothing.
DALTREY
That's right.
RATHER
Quote, unquote. When you just let your mind wander on.
DALTREY
Yeah, who's trainin' 'em to do that?
RATHER
What a good question.
19
DALTREY
I mean, you d-- then the truth is, I've-- I've found in life, in some ways, we all need training to do nothing.
RATHER
But they don't teach that in school.
DALTREY
No. No.. It's not (UNINTEL). There's no money in it.
RATHER
Now-- you became famous when you were very young. At what age, would you say, you recognized, "Hey, look, I can like it or dislike it, but I'm famous"?
DALTREY
Really, Woodstock. Woodstock was the-- pre that, you kind of-- we're kind of-- we were a well known band-- in this country and-- and in Britain and Europe. And-- and we'd had-- had hit records. But Woodstock, just the-- the whole event of Woodstock, for some reason or the other, that just captured people's-- people's imaginations. And then the film came out. And it became stuff of legends. But then, again, when I did Tommy, I suddenly realized that that was another enormous exposure through the-- to people that I hadn't experienced before. Dealing with the rock exposure was easy. But the film exposure, bein' a film star, I didn't like that stuff. I couldn't play their games. (LAUGH)
RATHER
Well, on the other hand—
DALTREY
You have to kiss too much, you know? (LAUGH)
20 RATHER
Well, but it paid well. And there was no heavy lifting.
DALTREY
No, no, no. I know. Yeah, I know. I-- but y-- but it's the business. The business side of that is-- you know, is not-- the great thing about rock and roll is that we were inventin' it as we went along. You know, it-- it was so-- it was all made on the hoof. So we were completely in con-- whatever we wanted to do, we did. And the record companies, of course, just went, "Oh, well-- w-- how much did we make at the last one? Here, well, give 'em the money." (LAUGH) And that's so-- that's-- but to-- you know-- the-- the film business is exactly the opposite, you know? You-- it's ruthless. And I hated that bit of it.
RATHER
Any regrets?
DALTREY
Regrets. I wish we kept-- I-- I wish I'd been mana-- I wish I'd managed to keep Keith alive a bit longer. But then I-- I-- I-- I say that, I wish-- I wish I'd known more that we-- about what we know today about rehab. And intervention and all that stuff.
RATHER
Because you think you could've—
DALTREY
Then, we were so naïve and stupid, we didn't know anything.
RATHER
But you think you might've been able to—
DALTREY
21 Yeah, but then I think—Then I think-- but then, I-- there's something in the back of my head that tells me that it-- Keith never would've made an old man. He wouldn't have wanted to be an old man. He wanted to be the world's greatest rock drummer.
RATHER
Which he was.
DALTREY
And he'd already been that. And the way he physically was going, it was doubtful whether he would've died being that for very much longer.
RATHER
What do you want people to remember about The Who?
DALTREY
I'd lis-- just listen to the music. That'll do. That'll do.
RATHER
Just listen to the music.
DALTREY
Yeah. It's all in the music and what I'm really proud of is that you can listen to any Who record. You'll hear every word. Whereas a lot of rock and roll songs, you go, "What'd he say?" (LAUGHTER) Not the-- not there's anything wrong with that. It's great on-- when-- when it's lighter-- lighter sentiment. It's fine. But I'm-- I'm very proud that it's all about the words. You can hear all the words. And there's an awful lot of them. And some of them are very big words. (LAUGHTER) So you have to have-- you have to be incredib-- especially the way I sing them-- you do have to be incredibly fit to be able to do-- to d-- to deliver it. I mean, one-- one day, it will go. And I hope someone taps me on the shoulder, tell me to stop. That's what I really hope. Because I would—
RATHER
Well, that will be no time soon.
22
DALTREY
that would be dreadful to-- to-- to go through the motions. Because I-- I can honestly say that I've never been on the stage ever and going through the motions. It's always-- I can't-- I can't sing like that. It-- it has-- I have to go back to singing the song for the first time. When I go out and sing, even today, go and sing Baba O'Riley or any of those songs, I-- when I'm doin' it that night, I will be singin' it for the first time.
ACT 5:
RATHER (VOICE OVER)
CODY SIMPSON IS A 16 YEAR OLD AUSTRALIAN MUSICIAN WITH COUNTLESS TEEN FANS AND MILLIONS OF TWITTER FOLLOWERS. HE'S BEEN ON TOUR THIS SUMMER WITH HIS POP SENSATION FRIEND JUSTIN BIEBER, BUT HE'S ALSO MADE HEADLINES LATELY FOR PAIRING UP WITH ANOTHER WELL KNOWN ARTIST WHO STARTED OUT AS A POP SINGER...ROGER DALTREY....ALTHOUGH THEIR WORK IS OFF STAGE. CODY IS NOW AN AMBASSADOR FOR TEENAGE CANCER TRUST, AND RECENTLY SPENT TIME WITH YOUNG CANCER PATIENTS AT UCLA HOSPITAL.
RATHER
Well, Cody, welcome. Thanks for joining us here.
CODY SIMPSON, POP SINGER
Thank you very much for having me.
RATHER
Tell you-- tell us about your involvement with-- his work in this country, in the U.S. You-- you're an official ambassador.
SIMPSON
Yeah, I mean-- I actually was in London. And-- I met one of The Who's manager's daughter at my show. She was-- you know, apparently a fan of mine and-- she came to the show, introduced me to her dad, and-- her dad informed me-- a little bit about the organization and-- I was
23 immediately intrigued and interested and-- and wanted to get involved. And, you know, I just thought for me as a teenager-- you know, it's-- it's easier for me to-- to relate to these kids and-- and-- and when I realized that I sort of started to have a voice I guess amongst young people and amongst teenagers, I really wanted to do my best to sort of use that to, I guess, send a positive message.
RATHER
Well, you were at the Teen Cancer Center at UCLA recently. Tell me about that.
SIMPSON
Well, I went-- it's actually-- I think it's the first one—
DALTREY
It's the first one. SIMPSON
Yeah, the first one in the U.S.—
DALTREY
We-- we-- we got very-- like, for ten years I was bangin' on doors. And then I met David Feinberg who runs UCLA. And he-- I told him what I was tryin' to do, and he-- he immediately understood it. I-- we then got together and raised a couple of million dollars to do it, the music business—
RATHER
So it's the first one in this country—
DALTREY
That's the first one and it's there.
SIMPSON
Yeah. Yeah, I went to see it. It's down in Santa Monica. I got to-- go in and-- actually meet a couple people on the board that had also gone through treatment themselves and-- and now we're
24 helping out the kids. And I got to go in and-- and meet a couple of the patients and stuff. And they have this whole ward where they, you know, bring in all the teenagers together—
DALTREY
That's right. SIMPSON
--which is-- which is amazing. And it gives them, I guess, you know, time and space to all hang out together and-- and, you know, it's awesome for them to have, I guess, others-- kids going through the same thing to relate to and to talk to—
RATHER
I’m interested to know what your reaction was inside, what your emotion was. You're what, 16 years old? You-- you've already received a great deal of notoriety, celebrity, had two albums already recorded. Looked like you're on your way to superstardom, people say. But you go to this facility which is built for teens who have cancer. How did you feel? Were you humbled, were you inspired? What-- what did you feel?
SIMPSON
Humbled, inspired, all that. I mean, it was definitely very shocking for me and-- to be in such an incredible position like the one that I'm in, it was just-- you know, it was insane to see that. I mean-- being a teenager I guess is already hard enough, you know, to-- to be growing up. And-- and I'm sure-- I can hardly imagine what it's like to have this whole extra weight on your shoulders, you know. Yeah.
RATHER
Well, where do you-- where do you plan to go from here in terms of this charity work? We'll talk about your music and your professional career, but where does it go from here for you?
SIMPSON
Man, I just-- I wanna t-- I wanna keep getting, you know, more deeply involved into it and-- and hopefully-- be able to visit-- you know, as a couple more of the-- you know, the hospitals get involved. And, yeah.
DALTREY
25
You're also-- you also makin' it-- he's makin' a donation of his-- own—
SIMPSON Yeah, actually-- I'm—
DALTREY
A dollar a ticket for his tour. Which adds up to a lot of money—
SIMPSON
Yeah. I mean—
DALTREY
C-- co-- comes to the charity. So that very generous of you—
SIMPSON
Thank you very much—
DALTREY
--thank you very much.
SIMPSON
--thank you. Yeah, on my tour this summer I've got-- my fans will be able to-- add a dollar donation to every ticket that's bought on my tour, so.
RAHTER
You're 16 years old, you have this music career, which is building. You're really big-- huge in social media, Facebook, Twitter. But you have the music career, you have school-- you're still in school? You haven't finished school, yeah? And you've taken all this charity work. How do you do it all?
SIMPSON
26
It's honestly-- it's a lot to balance, but-- you know, I just think, you know, the busier-- the busier you are the better it is, really. You know, it's better than sittin' around doin' nothing I guess. I mean, I-- I've been given such an incredible opportunity to make music and I'm still young so I-- I gotta balance school as well. I mean, it's kinda difficult, but, you know, I make it work and-- and, you know, I do my best to sort of-- you know, be involved in-- in incredible charities this one on-- on my-- on my free time as well.
RATHER
Well, given all your experience, what three things does Cody have to do to keep his career going and in the ascendancy?
DALTREY
Oh, in the music business today, the business of it I don't know, but the most important thing for Cody is to keep his feet on the ground, his head on his shoulders-- enjoy the ride-- and y-- you know-- hang onto your publisher. (LAUGHTER) Most important hang on to your publisher, don't throw that away. And-- and-- and-- dare to be different. Always dare-- you know, dare to be different. You will be goo-- because I-- when-- you know, when I started, I-- I couldn't-- Mick Jagger was there. No one could be a better frontman than-- than Mick Jagger. So it was pointless for me to run all over the stage, because I'd be a second-rate Mick Jagger. So you kind of find your own leash and dare to be different. You'll do it. Just be yourself.
SIMPSON
Thank you.
DALTREY
Yeah, and the stronger you are in yourself, the better you'll be.
RATHER
There's advice. Dare to be different and dare to be great. Let's talk about social media and reality television. How has that changed the game, Cody?
SIMPSON
27 Well, I feel like, I guess, nowadays-- there's much less mystery I think to an artist. Which is-- you know, it's good and it's bad. There-- you know, there's-- there's the positive sides of being able to-- being able to, you know, send out a message and then, you know, a minute later the whole world reads it. You know what I mean? But I also wish there was, you know, the mystery that there used to be, I think.
RATHER
Well, fair point, isn't it? That it-- it's taken some of the mystery, some of the mystique of the performer out?
DALTREY
And I-- yeah, but you can control that.
SIMPSON That's true—
DALTREY
You just-- just-- instead of doing instant stuff, just think a bit more. (LAUGH)
RATHER
We had this conversation-- well, this is unfair to you, but in the interview I did earlier-- he was giving unsolicited advice to younger people, and it was, "Do nothing more often." Because when you're doing nothing, not focused on your gadget or just sort of at ease, that's frequently your most creative time. That's-- that's what he's referring to. But I wanna get back to the social media, because even I noticed today, we were gonna do this interview here and you-- you posted something on Twitter that you were gonna show up for the interview. We come here and there's a quite a large gathering of young people, fair to say a preponderance of—
DALTREY
Were they here to see you then?
RATHER
--girls. No, no. (LAUGH) They didn't come to see an 81-year-old Dan Rather, I can guarantee you that. No, but it-- that's what you were talking about it's a plus and minus. That you can do
28 that, a crowd shows up immediately. On the other hand you have to keep it going. You have to stay in almost constant communication.
SIMPSON
Yeah, I mean, like I mentioned before, there are its positives and negatives. But, you know, the positives are being able to-- being able to share a message and-- and, you know, it spreads so quickly-- obviously and-- I mean, I just-- I love the fact the I can-- you know, I can, you know, talk to my fans and I can-- I can connect with them and I can, you know, reply to their messages and-- and-- you know, it's just-- it's-- it's an amazing way to be able to grow closer to them, you know. RATHER
Well, besides his really-- I can't say enough about charity work. What have you learned from his career? Have you learned anything?
SIMPSON
Well, like you mentioned before, you know, dare to be different, I guess. Dare to be great. I mean, obviously, you know, it's such an honor for me, especially as an aspiring artist and, you know, obviously I'm still starting out. I have a very long way to go, and to be-- to be asked, you know, by a living legend, you know, to be involved in something is just-- you know, it's such a honor, yeah.
ACT 6:
RATHER
And when did you first see all the guitar busting?
SIMPSON Pardon?
RATHER
The guitar busting? Breaking the guitars on stage. (LAUGHTER)
SIMPSON
I was a little older, I think.
29
DALTREY
Don't get influence by it. (LAUGHTER) That's been done. It's too expensive these days.
SIMPSON
I don't think I'm successful enough yet to just break guitars all the time, but hopefully I'll get there one day.
DALTREY
No, no. You don't wanna be there. You don't wanna be there.
RATHER
Listen, thank you both and good luck with your ambassadorship—
SIMPSON
It's an honor, thank you.
RATHER
Good luck with your career.
30