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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 8

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OFFICIAL RECORD of PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 8 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 6853 OFFICIAL RECORD OF PROCEEDINGS Thursday, 8 February 2018 The Council continued to meet at Nine o'clock MEMBERS PRESENT: THE PRESIDENT THE HONOURABLE ANDREW LEUNG KWAN-YUEN, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JAMES TO KUN-SUN THE HONOURABLE LEUNG YIU-CHUNG THE HONOURABLE ABRAHAM SHEK LAI-HIM, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE TOMMY CHEUNG YU-YAN, G.B.S., J.P. PROF THE HONOURABLE JOSEPH LEE KOK-LONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE JEFFREY LAM KIN-FUNG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG TING-KWONG, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STARRY LEE WAI-KING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAK-KAN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN KIN-POR, G.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE PRISCILLA LEUNG MEI-FUN, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WONG KWOK-KIN, S.B.S., J.P. 6854 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 THE HONOURABLE MRS REGINA IP LAU SUK-YEE, G.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE PAUL TSE WAI-CHUN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CLAUDIA MO THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL TIEN PUK-SUN, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE STEVEN HO CHUN-YIN, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE FRANKIE YICK CHI-MING, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE WU CHI-WAI, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YIU SI-WING, B.B.S. THE HONOURABLE MA FUNG-KWOK, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHARLES PETER MOK, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHI-CHUEN THE HONOURABLE CHAN HAN-PAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LEUNG CHE-CHEUNG, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LEUNG THE HONOURABLE ALICE MAK MEI-KUEN, B.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE KWOK KA-KI THE HONOURABLE KWOK WAI-KEUNG, J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHRISTOPHER CHEUNG WAH-FUNG, S.B.S., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE FERNANDO CHEUNG CHIU-HUNG DR THE HONOURABLE HELENA WONG PIK-WAN LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 6855 THE HONOURABLE IP KIN-YUEN DR THE HONOURABLE ELIZABETH QUAT, B.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE MARTIN LIAO CHEUNG-KONG, S.B.S., J.P. THE HONOURABLE POON SIU-PING, B.B.S., M.H. DR THE HONOURABLE CHIANG LAI-WAN, J.P. IR DR THE HONOURABLE LO WAI-KWOK, S.B.S., M.H., J.P. THE HONOURABLE CHUNG KWOK-PAN THE HONOURABLE ALVIN YEUNG THE HONOURABLE ANDREW WAN SIU-KIN THE HONOURABLE CHU HOI-DICK THE HONOURABLE JIMMY NG WING-KA, J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE JUNIUS HO KWAN-YIU, J.P. THE HONOURABLE HO KAI-MING THE HONOURABLE LAM CHEUK-TING THE HONOURABLE HOLDEN CHOW HO-DING THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-FAI THE HONOURABLE SHIU KA-CHUN THE HONOURABLE WILSON OR CHONG-SHING, M.H. THE HONOURABLE YUNG HOI-YAN DR THE HONOURABLE PIERRE CHAN 6856 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 THE HONOURABLE CHAN CHUN-YING THE HONOURABLE TANYA CHAN THE HONOURABLE CHEUNG KWOK-KWAN, J.P. THE HONOURABLE LUK CHUNG-HUNG THE HONOURABLE LAU KWOK-FAN, M.H. THE HONOURABLE KENNETH LAU IP-KEUNG, B.B.S., M.H., J.P. DR THE HONOURABLE CHENG CHUNG-TAI THE HONOURABLE KWONG CHUN-YU THE HONOURABLE JEREMY TAM MAN-HO MEMBERS ABSENT: THE HONOURABLE DENNIS KWOK WING-HANG THE HONOURABLE HUI CHI-FUNG PUBLIC OFFICERS ATTENDING: THE HONOURABLE MATTHEW CHEUNG KIN-CHUNG, G.B.M., G.B.S., J.P. CHIEF SECRETARY FOR ADMINISTRATION PROF THE HONOURABLE SOPHIA CHAN SIU-CHEE, J.P. SECRETARY FOR FOOD AND HEALTH THE HONOURABLE MICHAEL WONG WAI-LUN, J.P. SECRETARY FOR DEVELOPMENT LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 6857 CLERKS IN ATTENDANCE: MS ANITA SIT, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MISS FLORA TAI YIN-PING, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MS DORA WAI, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL MR MATTHEW LOO, ASSISTANT SECRETARY GENERAL 6858 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 GOVERNMENT BILLS Consideration by Committee of the Whole Council CHAIRMAN (in Cantonese): Committee of the whole Council will now continue to consider the Dutiable Commodities (Amendment) Bill 2017. Does any Member wish to speak? Mr Holden CHOW, please speak. DUTIABLE COMMODITIES (AMENDMENT) BILL 2017 MR HOLDEN CHOW (in Cantonese): Chairman, yesterday, I already spelled out my views and stance on the amendments. There are two groups of amendments here. The first group of amendments seeks to exempt the persons purely responsible for delivery from the Dutiable Commodities (Amendment) Bill 2017 ("the Bill"), because our target group of regulation is the suppliers who sell liquor and not the delivery persons. In this aspect, since the first group of amendments seeks to exempt the persons purely responsible for delivery instead of the suppliers who sell liquor, I certainly will give my support. The second group of amendment is the crucial part of this discussion which seeks to allow entry of law enforcement officers into private domestic premises to collect evidence. I already highlighted yesterday that I do not agree to it. The first major reason is that this offence is relatively less serious. If the law enforcement officers from the Government are still allowed entry into private domestic premises to collect evidence, notwithstanding the issuance of a search warrant from a magistrate, I still think that the offence is disproportionate to the power vested in law enforcement officers. Chairman, if the Bill is to deal with serious offences relating to drug trafficking and terrorist activities, it is understandable that law enforcement officers should be entrusted with the power to collect evidence in private domestic premises. But I think that the offence of selling liquor to persons under 18 years of age committed by suppliers is relatively less serious. Hence, it is not only disproportionate but also unnecessary to vest the power to collect evidence inside private domestic premises in law enforcement officers. LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 6859 Chairman, I would like to voice one more view here. Yesterday, I heard some Members spell out the objective of the Bill, which mainly seeks to regulate the sale of liquor by suppliers. Of course, we all understand the legislative intent of the Bill is to prohibit the sale of liquor to youngsters under 18 years of age by the shops on the street, and it is mainly targeted at the shops on the street. As I already highlighted yesterday, our consideration should focus more on law enforcement against the shops on the street in the future, including whether there is sufficient manpower to carry out inspections, whether undercover operations will be arranged, or whether law enforcement can be effectively carried out by the officers during their time of operation. All these are our questions for the Bureau to answer. Chairman, the Bill is targeted at the shops on the street, but now the amendments seem to have turned the target of regulation to private domestic premises. Frankly speaking, we know that the Bill is not meant to regulate private domestic premises. The present proposal of extending the power of law enforcement and evidence collection to cover private domestic premises is firstly, too unfair; and secondly, likely to render the Bill out of focus. I hope that the Bureau can understand that the main law enforcement work should focus on regulating the shops on the streets as far as possible. Yesterday, I heard some colleagues mention about online sales of liquor and I also heard the Bureau say that if the law enforcement power is not extended to cover searches of domestic premises, there may have a lot of buying and selling activities taking place in domestic premises. Chairman, with due respect, I really cannot agree to this point of view. Frankly speaking, when the usage for domestic premises has already been specified in the land lease, basically commercial activities should not be carried out in domestic premises. Even if there are such activities, how critical should the situation be before law enforcement is allowed to step in? Do we need to come up with a conclusion today that many domestic premises will be involved in the sale of liquor tomorrow? Will this happen? Chairman, I am really highly sceptical about this. In my view, under the condition when there is insufficient assessment, if we suddenly extend the power to cover searches of domestic premises through the passage of the second group of amendment today, it will be a hasty move. Before there is such a conclusion and such a situation, I do not support such a sudden move. However, after a period of observation, if we really see that the sale of liquor to youngsters under the age of 18 is extensively and illegally 6860 LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL ― 8 February 2018 conducted in private domestic premises in the whole territory, I will agree to the genuine need of extending the power to cover entry and searches of private domestic premises for evidence collection purpose. At that time, I will not raise any opposition. Nevertheless, Chairman, if we suddenly extend the power of evidence collection to cover searches of private domestic premises through the passage of the second group of amendment today, I would find it highly inappropriate. Therefore, I cannot support the second group of amendment, and I also hope that the Bureau can listen to Members' views. As always, we attach great importance to proportionality. If we forget about proportionality so easily and extend the power of evidence collection to cover searches of private domestic premises, we may do so in respect of other minor offences in the future, and this will not be desirable to this legislative system or the entire regime. Therefore, Chairman, based on the above mentioned reasons, I cannot support the second group of amendment which seeks to extend the power of evidence collection to cover searches of private domestic premises.
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