1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2783

PENNSYLVA.NIA. Henry A. Perrin, at Monroe, Iowa. 0. William Beales to be postmaster at Gettysburg, Pa., in Lucy B. Smith, at Sioux Rapids, Iowa. place of William B. Mcilhenny. Incumbent's commission ex­ MINNESOTA. pired February 22, 1910. Samuel Y. Gordon, at Brown Valley, Minn. Arthur E. Kurtz to be postmaster at Connellsville, Pa., in Thomas L. Jones, at Warroad, Minn. place of Clark Collins. Incumbent's commission expires March 22, 1910. MONTANA. David Russell to be postmaster at Renovo, Pa., in place of James H. Powell, at Virginia City, Mont. David Russell. rneumbent's commission expires April 24, 1910. NEBRASKA. TENNESSEE. Albert H. Hollingsworth, at Beatrice, Nebr. Harry Swaney to be postmaster at Galla tin, Tenn., in place William K. Sargent, at Elmwood, Nebr. of Harry Swaney. Incumbent's commission expires March 21, Lewis M. Short, at Ainsworth, Nebr. 1910. George W. Williams, at Albion, Nebr. TEXAS. NEW YORK. W. P. Park to be postmaster at Port Arthur, Tex., in place of George H. Brown, at Kinderhook, N. Y. Clark E. Dodge. Incumbent's commission expired April 27, John Dwyer, at Hudson Falls (late Sandy Hill),. N. Y. 1908. Melvin J. Esmay, at Schenevus, N. Y. Ellwood Valentine, at Glen Cove, N. Y. CONFIR1\IATIONS. PENNSYLVANIA. C. William Beales, at Gettysburg, Pa. Executive 1wminations confirmed 011 the Senate March S, 1910. Arthur E. Kurtz, at Connellsville, Pa. (Calendar day, Mwrch 5, 1910.) Nathan Tanner, at Lansford, Pa~ COLLECTOR OF CuSTOMS. SOUTH DAKOTA, Frederick 0. Murray to be collector of customs for the district Frank D. Lowry, at Leola, S. Dak. of Buffalo Creek, N. Y. John E. Sullivan, at Plankinton, S. Dak. SURVEYORS OF CuSTOMS. Edward F. Woodward to be surveyor of customs in the dis­ trict ot San Francisco, Cal. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Leopold G. Rothschild to be surveyor ot customs for the port of Indianapolis, Ind. (Reappointment.) SATUIIDAY, March 5, 1910. RECEIVER OF Pum.Io MONEYS. The House met at 12 o'clock noon. L. E. Rowe to be receiver of public moneys at Camden, Ark. Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. Henry N. Conde~ D. D. The Journal of the proceedings of yesterday was read and PROMOTIONS IN THE NAVY. approved. The following-named lieutenants (junior grade) to be lieu- PENSIONS. tenants: The SPEAKER laid before the House the bill (H. R. 19403) Hugo Frankenberger, granting pensions and increase of pensions to certain soldiers Ormond L. Cox, and sailors of the Regular Army and Navy and certain soldiers Herbert F. Leary, and sailors of wars other than the civil war, and to widows and Albert T. Church, Logan Cresap, dependent relatives of such soldiers and sailo~, with Senate Hiram L. Irwin, amendments. Byron McCandless, The Senate amendments were read. Roscoe C. MacFall, Mr. LOUDENSLAGER. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House Edgar G. Oberlin, and disagree to Senate amendments and ask for a conference. Arthur B. Cook. The motion was agreed to. The following-named ensigns to be lieutenants (junior grade): The SPEAKER appointed as conferees on the part of the Hugo Frankenberger, House Mr. LoUDENSLAGEB, Mr. DRAPER, and Mr. RICHABDSON. Ormond L. Cox, AMENDING SECTION 810 OF THE REVISED STATUTES. Herbert F. Leary, The SPEAKER also laid before the House the bill (H. R. Albert T. Church, 16037) to amend section 810 o:f the Revised Statutes, with Sen­ Logan Cresap, ate amendments. Hiram L. Irwin, The Senate amendments were read. Byron McCandJess, Mr. PARKER. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House disagree Roscoe C. MacFall, to the Senate amendments and ask for a conference. Edgar G. Oberlin, The motion was agreed to. · Arthur B. Cook, The SPEAKER appointed as conferees on the part of the Reuben B. Coffey, House M:t. P ABK.EB, Mr. TrnREI 1, and Mr. REID. Lucian Minor, I'RESEBVATION OF THE FILES OF THE HOUSE.. Harry E. Shoemaker, and Andrew F. Carter. Mr. O'CONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I present a privileged report The following-named assistant paymasters, with the rank of (No. 677) from the Committee on Accounts. ensign, to be assistant paymasters, with the rank of lieutenant The Clerk read as follows : (junior grade) : House resolution 4-03. Resolved, That- there shall be paid out of the contingent fund of the Fred E. l\feMillen, and House. under the direction of the Clerk, an amount not exceeding 2,500 Maurice H. Karker. for the better preservation of the early files of the House, consisting ot original manuscripts ; said files to be classified, rejacketed, and POSTMASTERS, indorsed in such manner as In the judgment of the Clerk will insure ARIZONA. their safe-keeping and accessibility. Frank P. Burnet, at Globe, Ariz. The Clerk read the following committee amendment: James II. McClintoc~ at Phoen~ Ariz. Add at the end of the resolution the following : "And the Clerk ls hereby authorized and directed to deposit all original letters and papers COLORADO, of historical value with the Librarian of Congress for. preservation in the Library of Congress as a part of the files of the House ol Repre­ John J. Williams, at Marble,. Colo. sentatives, subject to removal or withdrawal only by order of the INDIANA. House, list of same and receipt therefor to be communicated to the John Owe.n, at Noblesville, Ind. House and published in the Journal and in the Co~GRESSIONAL RECORD-." Elisha Sexton, at Shelbyville, Ind. Mr. CLARK of Florida. Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Rankin C. Walkup, at Crawfordsville, Ind. gentleman from Massachusetts a question. Joseph A. Young, at Middletown, Ind. 1\Ir, O'CONNELL. I will yield to the gentleman. Mr. CLARK of Florida. I want to ask the gentleman to gfre IOWA, the House some idea as to the character of these documents Harry E. Hull, at Williamsburg, Iowa. which it is proposed to have printed and preserved. Lauren :E. Hulse, at Keota, Iowa. Mr. MANN. Mr. Speaker, I desire to reserve a point of orcler E. L. Martindaler at Clinton, Iowa. on the report. 2784 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MARCH 5,

Mr. O'CONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I would like to have the consideration of the great services my dearly beloved husband has ren­ dered to the United States, and of the fearful loss ~ have sustained by Clerk read the report. his untimely death, his martyrdom, I may say, I respectfully submit to Mr. MANN. The gentleman from Massachusetts can state your honorable body this petitioni hoping that a yearly pension may be what the proposition is. granted me, so that I may have ess pecuniary care. I remain, Mr. O'CONNELL. The proposition, briefly, is that the early Most respectfully, Mrs. A. LINCOLN. files of Congress are in a decaying condition, as illustrated FRANKFORT, GERM.A.NY. by these papers [exhibiting a bundle of papers]. They are all This was received January .26, 1869, and referred to the Com­ in this deplorable condition. They are covered with dirt be­ mittee on Invalid Pensions by the Speaker and was found cause of their exposed location and are yellow with age; on among the files and papers unprotected and gradually falling many of the wrappers the backing is illegible. to pieces. These files contain very many important papers. For in­ Mr. HARRISON. Will the gentleman yield for a question? stance, here is an original letter from Mrs. Abraham Lincoln, Mr. O'CONNELL. Certainly. asking that a pension be granted to her. It was referred to Mr. MANN. How many people are to be employed in going the Committee on Invalid Pensions in 1869. over these old files? Another letter is from Lafayette, urging the appointment of Mr. O'CONNELL. The Clerk says be can do it with the sum Colonel Harrison to the Supreme Court, which is indorsed by of $2,500, and do it before the next Congress comes in. President Monroe. Mr. MANN. How late down, historically, do they come with Another letter is from Martha Washington, relative to the this investigation? disposition of the body of her illustrious husband. Also a let­ Mr. O'CONNELL. To about the Forty-first Congress. Of ter from President Washington himself, urging Col. Robert course a good many of the files wer.e destroyed when the Hanson Harrison to accept an appointment as associate justice British partially destroyed the old Hall of the House in 1814. of the Supreme Court, and other letters of Washington upon Mr. HARRISON. Will the gentleman yield for a question? that and other subjects. Still other letters I might mention Mr. O'CONNELL. Certainly. are from such men as Jefferson, Madison, John Jay, Tom Paine, Mr. HARRISON. I think the committee amendment is a and David, the French sculptor who executed the original bust subject upon which all the Members of the House should be of Washington, presented to the United States by France, and agreed. As to the disposition of the appropriation that, perhaps, which was destroyed some years ago when the old Library of is a question which the Committee on Accounts can best ad­ Congress was partially burnt, a replica of which is now in the vise us upon, and I think the gentleman from: Illinois has put Rotunda. These papers were once classified according to Con­ a very pertinent question to the gentleman from Massachusetts gresses, but, as I said, time and dust have. rendered their. con­ as to who are to make the selection of the documents which dition a subject for their better preservation and reclassifica­ are of importance historically to · Congress. I would like to tion. It would be difficult to determine their exact contents or ask the gentleman whether be will not accept an amendment to refer to a particular paper, and they are liable to be removed providing that the selection of these papers for the use of the from the files without detection. It seems to me that they are Library of Congress shall be made under the direction of the treasures that the House should protect. Chief of the Bureau of Manuscripts of the Library of Congress? The resolution asks that these papers in this condition may Mr. O'CONNELL. I do not know why he should do it any, be refiled, rejacketed, and so protected by the Clerk that they more than the Committee on the Library of the House, which will serve educational and )listorical purposes; that the more has jurisdiction of the subject. I am told by a former assistant valuable papers may be sent to the Librarian of Congress and file clerk-Mr. Page, now clerk of the Committee on Accounts­ kept by him in such shape as are other important docume~ts that he brought this matter informally to the attention of the now deposited there, such as the State Department collection Joint Committee on the Library a few years ago. of valuable state papers, so that they may not be stolen, mis­ Mr. HARRISON. If the gentleman has ever investigated laid, or misplaced. that department of the Library of Congress he will find that Mr. MANN. Who determines the historical value of these the .Chief of the Bureau of Manuscripts is actively engaged in documents? . obtaining and in preserving the original documents connected Mr. O'CONNELI.i. I presume the Clerk of this House and with our history in the nature of those from which the gentle­ those that assist him. man bas just read, and be is the person best qualified in our Mr MANN. I should think that that matter, if it is to be Government to determine which are and which are not valuable done 'at all had better be done by people in the Library of Con­ among these old files. gress who ~re able to form a judgment as to the historical value Mr. O'CONNELL. If the gentleman will put his amendment of them. in writing so it can be understood, I do not believe there will Mr. FITZGERALD. Mr. Speaker, I think everybody would be any objection. agree that that is an impeachment of the.House and the present Mr. HARRISON. I will state the amendment orally and ask management: · the Clerk tO put it. Mr. O'CONNELL. I hardly think that criticism just, if it is Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. May I ask the gentleman a made seriously, for these papers have been stored in their pres­ question? ent location upstairs under the roof for at least a quarter of a Mr. O'CONNELL. Certainly. century, and have there remained throughout many adminis­ Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. I would like to ask the gentle­ trations in this House. On the other band, I think it commend­ man to state, according to this resolution, by whom is this work able in the present officials to call our attention to the matter, to be done. that some proper action might be taken. It is a condition the Mr. O'CONNELL. It is to be done under the supervision of responsibility for which can not justly be attached to anybody. the Clerk of this House. I recall that for many years the late Walter H. French, of Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. It does not necessarily mean Boston, a familiar figure to many of the older Members of the that the Clerk himself is to do the work? House was the custodian o·f the file room, and that during his Mr. O'CONNELL. Oh, no. incumbency many methods were adopted for the better keeping Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. He can of course employ or of the archives. Colonel French was raised in an atmosphere call upon the proper officers of the Library of Congress to where such valuable historical documents are appreciated, and assist him in this work. he was zealous in their preservation to the extent of the facili­ Mr. O'CONNELL. We11, the Clerk has competent and quali­ ties at bis command. It was he, I am told, who prevented pos­ fied assistants and custodians who are more familiar with these sible depredations upon these very papers now under discussion things than anybody else. . by the erection of iron screens, but this precaution could not pre­ Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. · If it became necessary to de­ vent further damage from exposure. It seems to me that almost cide as to the historical value of any particular document there any man connected with the House of Representatives would be would be nothing to prevent the Clerk from calling upon the able to determine the historical value of these papers. Let me library officials or anybody else? read a letter of Mrs. Lincoln to the honorable Speaker of the Mr. O'CONNELL. It seems to me that it would be very House of Representatives. It is as follows: simple for him to have a conference with the Librarian of Con­ To the honorable Speaker of the House of RepresentaHves: gress as to the value of any particular paper. Sm : I herewith most respectfully present to the honorable House of Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. May I ask the gentleman a Representatives an application for a pension. I am a widow of a Presi­ question? dent of the United States whose life was sacrificed in his country's service. That sad calamity has very greatly impaired my health, and Mr. O'CONNELii. Certainly. by the advice of my physician, I have come over to Germany to try the Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. The Clerk when before the com­ mineral waters, and during the winter to go to Italy. But my financial mittee stated there were certain men who were experts in the means do not permit me to take advantage. of the urgent advice given me, nor can I live in a style becoming the widow of the Chief Magistrate business of looking over old papers and people who were fa­ ot a great Nation, although I live as economically as I possibly can. In miilar with. the value of these old letters and things ot that · 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.

and indorsed in such manner as In the judgment of the Clerk will insure kind and that he expected to employ people who were expert-in their safe-keeping and accessibility. that business. It was not a proposition for the purpose of giv­ The manuscripts referred to are stored in tne space under the root ing any money to anybody employed in the Clerk's office, but over the west stairway leading to the gallery of the House. About that they might employ outside of the Clerk's office people who twenty-five years ago u·on shelves were placed there to accommodate them, at which time they were removed from the file room proper to were familiar with what was proposed to be done. make space for the then current and the future files. The wrappers .Mr. MANN. Will the gentleman yield for a further question? which inclosed them were even then yellow with age and the indorse­ ments only faintly legible, and since then exposure to extremes of cold Mr. O'CONNELL. Yes. and heat and the accumulation of dust has caused the strings which Mr. MANN. I will ask whether the gentleman or the Com­ bind the bundles to rot, the paper to tear and crack, and the backing mittee on Accounts had before it the provisions of the statute to become almost obliterated. found in Thirty-first Statutes at Large, page 642, which pro­ The roof of the House is reached through the file room, where these manuscripts are kept, and at one point the passageway is barely wide vides: enough to admit one person. Along this narrow way on one side are The Clerk of the House of Representatives ls hereby authorized and piled from the floor to the roof hundreds of bundles of the early directed to deliver to the Librarian of Congress all bound volumes of records of the House, neglected and decaying. A more unfit place original papers, general petitions, printed matter, books, and manu­ could not be found. Their early removal to a place of safety and their scripts now in or that may hereafter come into the files of the House, preservation and identification is demanded by considerations of pride which, in his judgment, are not required to be retained in the imme­ and sentiment, if not alone upon the ground of historical value. The diate custody of the file clerk ; and it shall be the duty of the Libra­ Clerk of the House stated that the work can be done within four or rian of Congress to cause all such matter so delivered to him to be five months by the expenditure of $2,500, the amount named in the properly classified, by Congress, and arranged for preservation and ready resolution. reference. All of such matter to be held as a part of the files of the The files of the House for the first twenty years of our national House of Representatives, subject to its orders and rules. history are incomplete, the rarest and most valuable manuscripts hav­ ing been destroyed by the fue of 1814, when the old House wing of And whether, if that committee did have that statute before the Capitol was partially destroyed by the British. Prior to the Sev­ it, it now intends by resolution of the House to i•epeal the enth Congress files few papers were saved. The original message!:i statute or to amend it? and papers of President Jefferson and of later Presidents and reports of their Cabinet officers are preserved in bound volumes. These a few Mr. O'CONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I will say, in answer to the years ago were deposited in the Library of Congress and recently trans­ gentleman from Illinois, that the statute which he read refers ferred to the House Office Building. to a lot of bound volumes, and that that order has already been The manuscripts which it is now J?roposed to safeguard consist of original bills known as desk copies, with the action of the· House indi­ executed. It does not refer to historical papers or papers such cated thereon, and the original amendments thereto; original letters as these are that have such interest to the whole Nation, which, accompanying bills and petitions, many of them written by distin­ in the judgment of the Clerk, did not come within the purview guished persons ; original memorials of state and territorial legisla­ tures. petitions, reports of committees and accompanying :papers, etc., of that act, and which were not intended should go out of his covering a variety of subjects, and in themselves furnishmg a docu­ immediate custody without some such specific action as is now mentary history of some of the most important events in our history. proposed. It was related by a file clerk, now deceased, for many yea.rs a faith­ ful employee, that the letter of Mrs. Martha Washington to the Con­ Mr. MANN. Oh, the gentleman is entirely mistaken. It re­ gress concerning the removal of the remains of her distinguished fers to bound volumes or original papers- husband from the crypt in the Capitol to Mount Vernon was stolen .Also books and manuscripts now in or that may hereafter come into from a bound volume of original documents, but was afterwards returned. The volume from which it was taken was filed where the • • • the custody of the file clerk. manuscripts under discussion are now filed. Mr. O'CONNELL. That refers to manuscripts and general These early files are frequently consulted by historians, under proper petitions, it is h·ue, but it would hardly refer to these kinds of regulations, and, as showing their material as well as sentimental value, it is related by a former assistant custodian that a decision in a. letters and communications. prominent lawsuit in a local court turned upon certain evidence found The purpose of· that act was to make room by removing in the files of the House of an early Congress embodied in petitions of bulky matter to make space for current and future files. It citizens of Alexandria, before recession, concerning the appointment of justices of the peace. Private claims growing out of the war of seems to me absolutely necessary that we should pass some the Revolution, the war of 1812, Indian wars, and the war with Mexico, such re olution as that now before use, because nothing has in themselves of no particular interest historically, have been found to been done in pursuance of the statute which the gentleman has be accompanied by letters of distinguished persons. Thus, for instance, in the claim of one Jones, heir at law of Col. Robert Hanson Harrison, read to protect this kind of document. If the statute to which of the Continental Line, were found holograph letters to Colonel Har­ the gentleman refers did not cover these things, are we going rison from George Washington. to leave them still in the condition they are for age to ruin These letters tendered to and urged the appointment of Colonel Har­ rison as an associate justice on the first Supreme Court bench; one them? mentioned Washington's feelings of gratitude at the capitulation of Mr. NORRIS. Will the gentleman yield to a question? Cornwallis; and other letters from Jefferson, Lafayette, Jay, Monroe, Mr. O'CONNELL. Yes. and others complete the evidence in the case. Still other letters of Washington and of his contemporaries are scattered through the ar­ Mr. NORRIS. I would like to ask the gentleman whether chives. A few of them were exhibited to your committee and were the statute read by the gentleman from Illinois was considered found to be in such condition as to make their further preservation by the committee? by a process now used immediately necessary. Moreover, we believe some of these manuscripts to be of such rare historical value as to call Mr. O'CONNELL. The Clerk of the House came befol'e us for their care and 'preservation in the Library of Congress along with and told us he felt he had no right to send out of this build­ other valuable collections deposited there. The State Department ing any of the very early files except such as had been preserved adopted this method of preserving historical state papers. That splen­ did edifice is preeminently the proper depository for such priceless in bound volumes; that his authority did not extend to papers literature. of this nature. The matter transferred to the Library of Con­ Your committee therefore recommend an amendment authorizing and gress pursuant to that act was, I believe, afterwards stored in directing the Clerk to deposit all original letters and papers of his­ torical value with the Librarian of Congress, subject to removal or the House Office Building, indicating that the main purpose of withdrawal from the Library only by order of the House, and a list of the law was simply to provide for its storage, and not to serve same to be published in the Journal and in the RECORD. Such manu­ an educational or historical purpose, as is now our object. scripts could be designated as the " House of Representatives collec­ tion " and always rema.in a part of the files of the House. 1\Ir. NORRIS. Was this law called to his attention or to the Feeling that it would be a national reproach to allow the early files attention of the committee? longer to remain in their present exposed location and neglected con­ Mr O'CONNELL: We knew about the law, but it did not dition, your committee report favorably the accompanying resolution cover the ground· covered by the pending resolution. and amendment, and ask that the House agree thereto. Mr. NORRIS. It seems to me that this law applies to the Mr. HARRISON. Mr. Speaker, I offer an amendment to condition that is now before us. the amendment of the committee which is now on the Clerk's Mr. O'CONNELL. .Mr. Speaker, I print as a part of my desk. remarks the following report: The SPEAKER. The Clerk will report the committee amend­ [House Report No. 677. Sixty-first Congress, second session.] ment and then report the amendment offered by the gentleman BETTER PRESERVATIO OF EARLY FILES OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. from New York. Mr. O'CONNELL, from the Committee on Accounts, submitted the The Clerk read as follows : following report to accompany House resolution No. 403. The Committee on Accounts, to whom was referred House resolution Committee amendment: Add at the end of the resolution : No. 403, have had the same under consideration and recommend its "And the Clerk of the House is hereby authorized to deposit with the adoption with the following amendment, viz: Librarian of Congress all original letters and papers of historical value At the end of the resolution insert: for preservation in the Library of Congress as a part of the files of the "And the Clerk is hereby authorized and directed to deposit all House of Representatives, subject to removal or withdrawal only by original letters and papers of historical value with the Librarian of order of the House, a list of same and receipt therefor to be communi­ Congress for pre ervation in the Library of Congress as a part of the cated to the House and published in the Journal and in the CON­ files of the House of Representatives, subject to removal or withdrawal GRESSIONAL RECORD." only by order of the House, a list of same and receipt therefor to be Add at the end of the committee amendment the following: communicated to the House and published in the Journal and in the "And the selection of the documents to be transferred to the Library CONGRESSIONAL RECORD." of Congress shall be made under the direction and supervision of the The resolution authorizes payment out of the contingent fund of the Chief of the Bureau of Manuscripts of the Library of Congress." House, under the direction of the Clerk, of ~n amount not excee.ding $2,500 for the better preservation of the early files of the House, con­ Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. I think that amendment to the sistillg of original manuscripts ; said files to be classified, rejacketed, amendment is satisfactory to the committee. 2786 -CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. l\f.A.RCH 5,

Mr. O'OO'NNELL. The committee will ncce]!t that amend­ 1\fr. WILSON of Illinois. Is not this mf.o:r:mlltion that should ment. come directly to the Committee on the Merchant Marine and The SPEAKER. The {}uesti:on is on :agreeing to the amend­ Fisheries1 ment to the committee amen.d.ment. l\Ir. GREE1'TE. I.t wlll come to that committee if the House The question was taken, an.d the .amendment to the committee adopts this resolution, ·and the gentleman himself ean have the. amendment was .agreed to. information. The SPEAKER. The question now is on agreeing to the Mr. FITZGERALD. The committee of which the gentleman committee amendment as amended. from Massa.elmsetts [Mr. GREENE] is chairman has already re­ The committee amendment was agreed to. ported a bill purporting to .assist steamships engaged in trade The SPEAKER. The question now is on agreeing to the between the United .States and South America, and after it has resolution. reported the bill, it is now endeavoring to obtain information The -question was taken, and the ["esoluti-on was agreed to. from the .Department of State to bolster -up its report. Is -STEAMSHIP 'SERVICE, UNITED :STATES AND SOUT.H .AMERICA. that true? That is, the "subsidyites" require their case to have additional bolstering by the departmen.t in order to make Mr. GREENEJ. Mr. Speaker, by ·direction ()f the Committee a good case before the country, and mru;t -0btain these files from on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries, ·1 call up privileged the Department of State. Is that the object? resolution ( H. Res. 402), which 'I send to the desk and ask to Mr. 'GREENE. The adoption of this resolution will give in­ have read. form.ati-0n of value to the House. The Clerk read as follows : Mr. l\IA.NN. It is not trying to get information to bolster up House resolution 402. the report, but to see if the eommittee knew what they e.re doing when they -reported the bill without information. Resolved, That the Secretary of .State tbe requested, 1f not incompati­ ble with the pubU.e interest, to communicate to the Hou.se -of Repre­ J\fr. FITZGERALD. I would suggest to the gentleman that sentatives any r.ecent reports from diplomatic or <:onsular officers in he ask at the same time to recommit the bill, so that we may regard to the question of the inadequacy of steamship service between con.sider the bill again When we have the information. the United Sta:tes and South America and its bearing upon :the export trade -Of the United States. .Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. Why does the gentleman con­ fine the inquiry that he seeks to obtain the information about The SPEAKER. The question is on agr.eeing to the reso­ to "the inadequ.acy of the steamship ·service?" It looks to m:e lution. like 'Obtalning :an opinion of the Secretary of .State or the ·COn­ Mr. CLARK -of Missomi. Mr. :Speaker, I would like to ·ask iu.ls. YQu do n.ot wan.t to inquire whether the .service is ade­ th.e g.entleman wbat this is? quate :0r not, -but you want to inquire whether it is ina.d.~uate Mr. GREENE. It is a i-esolution .calling for informati0n from or not; that is, not all the information, but information as to the Secretary -0f 'State. the inadequacy. .Mr. CLARK -of l\Iis ouri. A.bout wh.at? 1\Ir. GREENE. I think t~re will be nG trouble. If the :reso­ .M-r. GREENE. In regard to ~e adequacy of shipping facili­ lution is adopted, the .Hon.se will -Ob.ta.in all the ..necessary .in­ ties between this country .and South America. formation. Mr. CLARK -0f Missouri.. What do.es the Secretar_y .of State l\Ir. BARTLETT of Georgia. As to the inadequacy, yes. know -about it? .But there :might be some diplomatic or consular officers who Mr. -GREENE. He has information from consuls and other would report that the service was adequate. officials .of the departments. . Mr. -GREENE. 1f they should, the House will hav.e the in­ Mr. CLARK -0f ~iissouri. Is the gentleman proposing .to have formation. him send over .here all of the report'S of the e consuls? Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. There might be others who Mr. .GREENE. This re olution -speaks for itself. I do not might think i.t was adequate nt the present time. Then we think there ean be any -0bjeeti-0n to a king f.or such informa­ would only get the opinion of the diplomatic or consular offi­ tion as the Secretary of -State deems not incompatible with the cers who thought it was inadequate, and n-0.t the op.in.ion of public interest, to be sent to the House for information. those who thought it was adequate. In other words, the .reso­ Mr. CLARK of 1\fis ouri. The cCbnsular reports are already lution, it occurs to me, is a -one-sided :a.1Iair, -and calls for .one­ published and furnished to .each Member of the House. sided information. :Mr. GREENE. Th.is is simply to .codify and send to this Mr. / FASSETT. W:ill the gentleman from Mas acbusetts House information that will be ·of value, .as it is believed by [l\fr. GREENE] permit me to make a suggestion? the .committee. It is the unanimous report of the committee. Mr. GREENE. .I yi~d. The resolution was considered and unanimously ordered to be .l\fr. FASSETT. This .resoluti-0n would accomplish all that it repoi"ted to the House without amendment. is desired to accomplish if the words " of the inadequacy " be Mr. BARTLETI' of Georgia. Mr. .Speaker, 1 usk that the stricken from the resolution entirely. It -should read: resolution be :again reported. In regard to -the gnestion of steamship ser'Vi.ce-- The SPEAKER. Without 'Objection, the resolution will be llr. BARTLETT of Georgia. If I b.ave the :floor to offer it. again reported. Mr. FASSETT (eonti:nuing)- The resolution was again read. between the United States and South America.. Mr. GARRETT. l\Ir. Speaker. I make the point of order l\Ir. BARTLETT <>f Georgia. If the gentleman will permit that that is not a privileged report. me, I will make that motion.. Mr. GREENE. Mr. Speaker, I 'believe that the point of or­ Mr. FASSETT. If the gentleman from l\Iassachusetts wotild der is presented too late. The resolntion bas .already :been make that amendment, it will meet the objeetion of every ·gen­ discussed. tleman here. The .SPEAKER. The report has been debated. The point of Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. That is th~ reason I called at­ order .comes too late. tention to it. l\Ir. GARRETT. I will state that I was on my feet to make Mr. WILSON of Illinois. I would make a further suggestion a point of o.rder :at the time, .but I :did n-0t hear it distinctly. t-0 the chairman of the c-0mmittee, and submit to him that he The SPEAK.ER. But the gentleman .did not make the point should also strike out the words " and its bearing upon the ex­ of order. port trade -Of the Umtoo States." '.Mr. GARRETT~ I did not have the opportunity to .do so, and Mr. GREENE. I do not think I eould a.ecept that amend­ I ·came, then, to examine it while the colloquy was in progress. ment. I will aecept the .other umen.dment. The SPEAKER. Debate has taken place. The gentleman Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia. I understand the gentleman should have reserved the point of order. will perm.it me to offer that amendment. Mr. WILSON .of Illinois. Mr.. Speakei·-- Mr. GREENE. I will o1Ier it myself. The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Massaeh.usetts 'The .SPEAKER. The gentleman from l\fassachu.setts will IMr. GREENE] yield to the gentleman from Illinois {Mr. WIL­ indicate his amendment. SON]? The Clerk read as follow.s: .Mr. GREENE. I do. Strike :out the words "of the inadequacy,' so :that 1t will :read "In Mr. WILSON of Illinois. Do you n0t think this would have :regard to the ques.tion ot steamship service," ~te. been proper "information for the Committee on the Merchant Mr. GREENE. I call for a vote. Marine and Fisheries to 'have had at the time they were con­ l\Ir. WILSON of Illinois. .l\Ir. Speak.er-- sidering a sub-.sidy bill before that -committee? The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman yield to his coll-eague1 Mr. GREENE. The House, "I think, will have ample oppor­ Mr. GREENE. I yi,fild to my -colleagueJ tunity to consider the subsidy bill ~when it .comes before ·file Mr. WILSON of Illinois. It does not seem that it is neces­ House for action. The .committee we:r-e :Satisfied with tbe Jn­ sary for the House of Representatives to ask .for the opi.!nio0n formation they had at the time that bill was reported. of these people on this question on the information that thq 1910. QONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2787

have received. It seems to me that it would be proper to strike any opinion or any fact that our o:qicials have· expressed or out the words giving their opinion as to " its bearing upon the ascertained. export trade of this country." If we have the information The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Massachusetts moves ourselves, it seems like we could draw our own conclusions bet­ the previous question on the resolution and amendment. ter than the S~te Department. Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. I ask the gentleman to reser1e Mr. BATES. Mr. Speaker, may I ask the gentleman from his motion-- Illinois if he is afraid to have the facts and information which Mr. GREENE. For what purpose? the consuls of the United States can shed on this question? Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. To enable me to ask him a The Secretary of State has eyes and ears all over the world in question and to call his attention to something in the resolution the nature of consuls, and from frequent reports give the Sec­ that he may desire to change. retary of State information which no other officials of the Mr. GREENE. I yield for that purpose. United States have concerning the trade between the United Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. I want to call the gentleman•s States and foreign ports. I think.it would impair the value of attention to the fact that the resolution reads: the resolution if such an amendment were offered. Communicate to the House of Representatives any recent reports. Mr. STAFFORD. Mr. Speaker, we are all desirous of ascer­ It seems to me that would leave it within the discretion of taining the necessary information, and I desire to ask the gen­ the Secretary of State to make a selection as to the reports tleman from Massachusetts whether his committee has received that he shall submit. I suggest to the gentleman that the reso­ any information compiled recently by the Commissioner of Navi­ lution should carry the word "all" instead of ".any," so that gation as to the steamship lines that were in operation be­ all the recent reports may be transmitted to us. tween June 30 and December 31 of last year on the Atlantic Mr. MANN. There is no difference in the meaning. coast between American ports and South American ports? Mr. GREENE. I do not think the language is open to the Mr. GREENE. I will remind the gentleman that there was construction that the gentleman seems to fear. I call for a an order issued for the publication of that, and it was put in vote. the hands of the Commissioner of Navigation, and he has not Mr. WILSON of Illinois. Mr. Speaker, I ask the chairman of yet sent it to the House. the committee if he will reserve his motion for one moment, Mr. STAFFORD. I have already received a copy. It was while I ask him a question? first prepared upon my personal request to the commissioner, Mr. GREENE. I will reserve it. and I would like to ask what additional information can be ob­ Mr. WILSON of Illinois. Would it not be better to amend tained from the consuls? this resolution, so that it would read: Mr. GREENE. I am not able to tell you; I can .not tell Communicate to the Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries you what will be in the report until it comEts. of the House of Representatives- Mr. STAFFORD. I can not see why any gentleman should thl s information, so that the Committee on the Merchant Marine be disposed to shut out any of the facts. But is the gentleman and Fisheries may have the right to question the Secretary of aware that some of the information referred to, furnished by State and other officials who come before us in the proper con­ these consular representatives, has been criticized as being un­ sideration of this subject? fair and untrue by the shipping interests of this country? Mr. GREENE. When the matter comes up it will undoubt­ Mr. GREENE. No; I have not. edly be referred to the Committee on the Merchant Marine and Mr. STAFFORD. The State Department has been informed Fisheries. of this criticism and its fairness questioned. The question being taken, the previous question was ordered. Mr. FASSETT. Mr. Speaker, it seems to me we are getting The amendment was agreed to. unduly excited about a move in the right direction. Whether The resolution as amended was agreed to. the Members of this House favor ship subsidy or oppose ship subsidy, everyone, if we can judge from the speeches that have POST-OFFICE APPROPRIATION BILL. been made, is interested in the restoration of American ship­ Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Speaker, I move that the House resolve ping on the seas. We differ as to the methods. Now, here is itself into the Committee of the Whole House on the state of the a resolution which looks to getting information which comes Union for the further consideration of House bill 21419, the through the eyes and ears of the State Department. Under a post-office appropriation bill. recent executive order, with which I have no disposition at The motion was agreed to. present to quarrel-- Accordingly, the House resolved itself into the Committee Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Why not now? of the Whole House on the state of the Union for the further Mr. FASSETT. Because I am not feeling quarrelsome. It is consideration of the bill (H. R. 21419) making appropriations impossible for any Member of this House to obtain informa­ for the service of the Post-Office Department for the fiscal year tion in the possession of any department of this Government ending June 30, 1911, and for other purposes, with Mr. LAWRENCE without the official consent of the member of the Cabinet at in the chair. · · the head of that department. The CHAIRMAN. The House is now in Committee of the Mr. MANN. Will the gentleman yield for a question? Whole House on the state of the Union for the further consid­ Mr. FASSETT. For a question. . eration of the post-office appropriation bill. When the com­ Mr. 1\IANN. Does the gentleman know whether the State mittee rose yesterday a point of order was pending to an amend­ Department has any diplomatic and consular reports upon this ment offered by the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. MURPHY], subject which have not been printed by the Department of on which the Chair is ready to rule. Commerce and Labor in their regular consular reports? The gentleman from Missouri offered the following amend­ 1\Ir. FASSETT. Mr. Speaker, I do- not know, in the strict ment: interpretation of that word, but I understand-- ' Page 19, line 18, after the word " dollars," insert: "Provided, That no part of this appropriation shall be paid any rail­ Mr. MANN. Has the gentleman reason to believe? road which requires any telegraph or telephone operator who handles Mr. FASSETT. Yes; I have reason to believe, in the first orders pertaining to or affecting the movements of trains to handle the place, that diplomatic reports are not published. Consular mail between stations and post-offices." reports are, but they are edited before being published. Rule XXI proVides that no provision changing existing law is Mr. MA..."N"N. I understand; but sometimes· diplomatic reports in order upon a general appropriation bill; but the House may are published. withhold entirely an appropriation for a lawful purpose or it l\Ir. FASSETT. Mr. Speaker, I have reason to be1ieve that may withhold the appropriation in part. It may also specify there is valuable information in the possession of the State that the appropriation shall not be used for a certain purpose, Department~ but as to its bearing on this particular question under what is terined a "limitation." A limitation must be one way or the other I am not fully informed, and I feel that applied strictly to the appropriation. It must not limit the dis­ I have a right, and every Member of this House has a right, cretion of an executive officer by affirmative direction, and the to all the information in possession of the Government on this language of the limitation must not be such as when fairly subject, and I hope this resolution will pass. construed would change existing law. Mr. GREENE. Mr. Speaker, I move the previous question The Chair finds upon consulting the precedents that an on the resolution and amendment. amendment to the effect that "no part of said sum shall be Mr. FASSETT. I want to make one suggestion with refer­ used to pay for the carrying in the mails any malt, vinous, or ence to the remark of the gentleman from Illinois [Mr. WILSON]. spirituous liquors, or intoxicating liquors of any kind," was held I do not care whether these reports contain the opinion of a to be a limitation. Also, that "no part of any appropriation consular agent. I do not care to separate the opinion from the shall be expended for any purpose in any national home for facts. I want it all, and when the time comes for discussion disabled volunteers that maintains or permits to be main­ nobody can have any surprise sprung on him with reference to tained on its premises a bar, canteen, or other place where beer, 2788 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MAROH 5,

wine, or other intoxicating liquors are sold" was held to be a quired to clean all of the lamps in and about the station; they limitation. The same ruling was made relative to an amend- used switch lights and I was required to clean and fill the switch ment that "no part of an appropriation should be paid to any lights with oil and put them out at night and take them in in trust." the morning.. When I wanted any repairs for the switch lamps Acting in harmony with these precedents and in accordance I would have to go to the section foreman for them. In addi­ with the principle as to limitations established by the House, tion, I had to sweep out the depot every morning. If the local the Chair feels that he should hold the amendment offered by trains reached there after night, and it was frequently so, I had the gentleman from Missouri to be simply a limitation on the to take the ~reight which was unloaded upon the depot platform appropriation and submit it for consideration by the committee. and put it in the freight house. The Chair therefore overrules the point of order, and the ques- · Mr. HINSHAW. Did I understand the gentleman to say that tion is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from Mis- he quit that job involuntarily? [Laughter.] souri. Mr. MURPHY. Yes; I was relieved from duty. .Mr. 1\ffiRPHY. Mr. Chairman, this amendment does not in Mr. MANN. His strenuous service there landed him here. any way relieve the railroad company from delivering the mail Mr. MURPHY. In addition to that, I was required to check between the post-offices and stations. It simply provides that the baggage and load it, and I handled from two to three truck they shall not require a telegraph or telephone operator, whose loads of baggage at night, in addition to putting the mail upon duty it is to handle train orders or orders affecting the move- the trains and taking it off and putting it in the house. In ad­ ments of its trains, to deliver these mails. They are a class of dition, the railroad company required that the night operator men who hold the llres of every individual who rides upon a must handle the express as well, and he must take that out on passenger train in the hollow of their hand; if one mistake is the trucks and put it on the two trains they had at that time, made in the delivery of an order, or in the delivery of it to and there are four now, and put it in the house as well. These the proper train,- it may result in the loss of human life. are some of the duties which are imposed upon this class of There is no provision of law now which requires a railroad men, at that time receiving $40 a month, who to-day receive $50 company to deliver the mail between post-offices and stations. a month. · It is a regulation of the Postmaster-General. I understand- I want to state to this House, as I stated before, that while I do not know it to be true, but I am reliably informed of the there has been some increase in wages, a slight increase, I fact-that it is inserted in the contract with the railroad com:- showed to this House and proved it to the conference commit­ pany who transports the mail. tee in the Fifty-ninth Congress, that more than 100 operators I speak of this after having had some seven or eight years' performing this class of duty upon the Southern Railroad were actual experience as an operator and train-dispatcher, and for paid the enormous sum of $20 per month. Some may say that the Ia.st thirteen or fourteen years have had close personal ob- the one-man station, the small place where only one man is servation of the doings in and around railroad stations and of required, is not a place where there is very much to do, and the work that is required of this class of men. it is therefore imposing no hardship on the man to carry the I want to say, before I proceed further, that it does not cost mail. Go to these stations, in towns of 200 and 300 inhab­ the railroad company one dollar to have this mall carried be- itants, and you will find that the agent is busy from morning tween the post-office and the station. You are imposing no until late at night, and must go back after night in order to hardship on the railroad company. The pay of the railroad make out his reports and keep up with his work. He must company is not fixed on account of their carrying the mails in perform the very duties that I have enumerated, that I had this manner, but it is weighed in accordance with provisions to do as a night operator. I had the pleasure of working at of law, and their pay is fixed thereon. So you are imposing no one of those stations. I would carry the mail to and from hardship on the railroad company by requiring them' to do this; the post-office,. and very frequently the postmaster, when I but you are, by taking this class of employees away from this walked over to get the mail, would walk with me back to "see service, relieving them from hazarding the lives of people in the train go through,." and after the train passed would wait taking care of the mail when it could be done by other people. and accompany me back while I carried the mail to the post- ! remember, when working at a station in my district in a office for him to open and distribute. [Laughter.] In nearly town of some 2,000 people--the post-office at that time was all of those cases the postmaster receives more than the agent. third class, but is now second class-I was working from twelve In many of these smaller places the postmaster is afraid to to thirteen hours at night. I was required to go to the post- risk his registered letters in the mall pouch with his card re­ oflice at night at a certain hour when the mail would be closed, ceipt, as he can do, and I know from my own personal experi­ get the mail, and take it to the depot. I was the only em- ence that many times he takes his registered letters and his ployee there at night. In the morning I was required to take receipt book over to the mail car and lets the railway postal the mall to the post-office, a block and a half distant. At that clerk receipt him for them while he stands by the side of these time it would average, besides the 2 pouches of first-class mail, operators and sees them put the mall into the cars, and then from 8 to 11 sacks full of papers, magazines, and so forth. accompanies the operator back to the post-office. The postmaster would open the office at half past 4 in the In a city, one of the best in the country-I will not mention morning, and I was required to deliver the mall not later than its name-not far from where I live, I can give you some 5 o'clock. If I failed, upon being reported by the postmaster, I examples. had to pay out of my salary $1 to the railroad company as a There the railroad company employs an agent, three oper­ fine. This was a station where I handled from 20 to 30 and ators under the nine-hour law, and a helper. The day operator sometimes 40 train orders a night, and that hour of the morn- is required to handle the express, to make out the express re­ ing was one of the very busiest I had. Yet, failing to answer ports, to handle the Western Union business and deliver it, the calls of the train dispatcher in delivering the mail sub- to take and receive packages for shipment by express, and to jected me to abuse by him, and I was finally reported by him deliver at the counter packages which are received. Notwith­ and discharged for failing to· attend to the wires. standing the fact that a helper is employed, the duty is im- Mr. HAMLIN. Will the gentleman permit an interruption? posed upon the operators to see that the mails are delivered to Mr. MURPHY. Yes. and returned from the post-office and placed on the trains, Mr. HAMLIN. The gentleman has just detailed the extra and a failure results in a fine of $1. duty imposed upon him by reason of this order or departmental Air. FOB.pNEY. Will the gentleman permit just one inter- regulation. I will ask the gentleman if he received any extra ruption? ' compensation for this extra service that he rendered? Mr. MURPHY. Yes, sir. Mr. MURPHY. Not one dollar. I received the sum of $40 per Mr. FORDNEY. Do yon state that the railway mail clerks month for my services. In addition to these duties of attending give receipts for registered packages without knowing whether to the calls upon the wire I was required to sell tickets, both or not they get them?. local and coupon, and was also required to book from two to Mr. MURPHY. No, sir~ I said the postmaster, not trusting three and four carloads of freight in a night in a book which bis registered letters in the mail bag with a receipt card which was practically a copy of the waybills, giving item by item, the the railway postal clerk would sign and return to him by next weight, the grade, and the amount of freight. ma~ would take the registered letter in a book which is fur- [Mr. MURPHY'S time having expired, upon request of Mr. nished by the department and go- to the postal clerk and secure Wn.soN of Illinois he was granted unanimous consent to pro- a personal receipt from him. ceed for ten minutes.] Mr. FORDNEY. I misunderstood the gentleman. Mr. MURPHY. I had then to what was called "expense" Mr. BARNHART. In these statements you have made you those waybills, which was to make out what might be called a have not indicated whether all this is the fault of the rail­ " statement" to each of those who received the :freight, and that way management or the Post-Office Department. was a copy of each item and the rate and the amount of freight, Mr. MURPHY. The Post-Office Department, by regulation, and then totaled. They used kerosene for lighting, and I was re- requires the railroad companies to deliver the mails to the 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2789 post-office. And, for reasons which I could give to this House, Mr. WEEKS. l\Ir. Chall;man, the House of Representatives but which I will not do- at this time, the railroads impose that very properly assumes that a committee considering a great ap­ duty upon the telegraph operator in each and every case, although propriation bill, or any other measure, shall consider every fea­ they have in their employ at many stations helpers who ought ture of that bill-the desirability or necessity for increasing to be doing that work. If an operator fails to deliver the appropriations or the necessity for adopting any recommenda­ mail or to receive the mail or to put it on the train, the rail­ tion which it may make with reference to changes in existing road company deducts from his salary the sum of $1 for each law. The gentleman from Missouri evidently has not consid­ and every time, by way of a fine as punishment. ered this as a new proposition. It is an old matter in his mind; And I will gtrn you another experience a.long that line which yet during the.. six. weeks the Post-Office Committee was con­ I had. as an operator in the State of Texas. I was working sidering this appropriation bill the gentleman did_ not appear nights on a railroad at Pottsboro, Tex.; just north is Denison, before the committee and ask for a hearing; he did not ask any and south of Denison is Whitesboro, some 40 or 44 miles, and member of the committee for a hearing so far as I know. He my station was the only telegraph station between them. There is now asking this Committee of the Whole to legislate on a had been a wreck between Pottsboro and Whitesboro, which matter which is of considerable importance, maybe of great im­ was to the south, and they would allow no trains to leave Deni­ portance, without sufficient information. I do not know, and son, the terminal on the n-0rth, until the wreck wa.s cleared. It no member of this Committee of the Whole knows, what effect took several hours to clear it up, and when the track was clear the amendment which the gentleman proposes will have on the trains were released at Whitesboro and Denison, and to meet service. We do know that in cases where a post-office is more at Pottsboro. I had received some fifteen or twenty orders, most than 80 rods from the railroad station we make provision for of them for passenger trains which had been held and going carryilng the mail back and forth to the station, and we have in either direction.· Those passenger trains met at Pottsboro, appropriated in this bill $1,590,000 for that purpose. The gen­ and there were several freight trains upon the siding, which I tleman from Missouri says it does not cost the railroad anything had train orders for. Those two passenger trains carried mail. to transport the mail. The train from the south must take the siding, and they were Mr. MURPHY. No. given authority by the train dispatcher, as we call it in rail­ Mr. WEEKS. I do not know whether it does or not. road parlance, "to pull up and back in." They would pull by Mr. MURPHY. You do not mean that; that it does not cost the station up to the northern switch and back into the siding them anything to transport the mail? and save delay to the train that was coming south. It had no l\Ir. WEEKS. From the station to the post-office. I do not more than backed in until the train from the north whistled. know whether it does or not. I do not know whether it requires The conductors came into my office about the same time. I additional men, but I do know that we are appropriating $1,590,- was delivering my orders to them the best I could, seeing to it 000 a year to pay for carrying the mail to and from the post­ that no mistake would be made, and that orders would not be o:ffices where they are more than a quarter of a mile from the delivered to the wrong train or none withheld which ought to station. Now, this legislation ought not to be considered for a be delivered to either train. I delivered the orders to the north­ moment until we have had a hearing on it, until we have been bound train, which was ready to leave, and I. told the conductor ad_vised by the department what effect it will have on their con­ that he must wait until I could put the mail on the train. He tracts with the railroads, whether it will necessitate additional said, " No; I can not do it." And he pulled out. By the time expense on the part of the department, and in every way have I delivered my orders to the conductor of the southbound train, all the knowledge which the committee should have on any and and he in turn to the engineer, before I could reach the mail car all important matters. I hope, Mr. Chairman, this amendment to pat the mail on, this train pulled out, and it cost me $2 that will not meet the approval of the Committee of the Whole. night for failing to deliver the mail and neglecting those orders. Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, just a word. I understood the The CHAIRMAN. The time of the gentleman has again gentleman from Missouri to say that the absence of the tele­ expired. graph operator from the office while carrying this mail might _ Mr. MURPHY. I ask for five minutes more, Mr. Chairman. be detrimental to the train service and cause an accident, be­ The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The cause the train might proceed without orders. I undertake to Chair hears none. say that t1ie gentleman certainly does not mean that. If the tele­ 1\Ir. MURPHY. Of course that would not affect this amend­ gmph operator falls asleep or falls dead, the train does not ment, and I only give it to you as an example to show to you proceed without orders. Trains are not operated upon theory. what duties are imposed upon these men by the railroad com­ They can not leave without orders. They proceed on orders; panies in handling this mail. If this amendment is adopted it and if the telegraph operator at this station is away from the does not absolve the railroad company from delivering the mail station delivering mail at the post-office when an order is tele­ between the station and the post-office. graphed to his station, the train will not proceed until the If in the judgment of the Postmaster-General under the operator returns to the station, gives the order, again tele­ regulation he ought to do so, then it is up to the railroad com­ graphs, and gives it to the train officials. pany to make this arrangement. I neglected to state that in The gentleman from Missouri certainly knows that better this city of which I spoke there are four men employed besides than I do, and I know it well enough to know that that is the the agent by the railway company, and at the post-office there case. is only the postmaster and two clerks. The postmaster and the Ur. HAl\ILIN. I think the gentleman does not mean to make two clerks at that place receive $291.66 salary per month, while that statement. Does h~ not know that at many stations along the five men at the depot receive from the railroad company the line of a road that are unimportant to the through trains only $280. In handling this mail, remember, they do not fur­ something will occur after the train has passed a regular stop nish the operator with a wheelbarrow or wagon or anything to which renders it necessary to intercept the train with an order carry it with. In transporting it the only means of taking it at the next telegraph station, where there is a natural clear­ back and forth to the depot or the post-office is to lug it, package ance, unless the agent is there to receive that order; and is it by package, in sacks, and vice versa, on their backs. not a matter of history known to us all that accidents have As I stated, l\fr. Chairman, this class of men ought to be at sometimes occurred because those orders, coming unexpectedly, their post of duty, where they can hear the call of the train have not been promptly received? dispatcher, receive the train orders they should receive, and, Mr. 1\IANN. Oh, no; not at all; quite the contrary. when received, should be there to deliver to the proper train, Mr. MURPHY. Will the gentleman yield? and they should not have all these duties placed upon them Mr. MANN. I yield to the gentleman from Missouri, who which distract their minds from their duties, and may cause, has better information than I have. in fact, has caused, them to make mistakes. But some may Mr. MURPHY. Does not the gentleman know that many say, " Why, you take some of these small stations; they prob­ train orders are received by operators and delivered to trains ably do not receive one train order a day." That may be true, as they are running through, and are handed up on a hook, Mr. Chairman; but he ought to be there when that one train without the train stopping? order comes to receive it properly, handle it properly, receive it l\fr. MANN. That may have been the case when the gentle­ and delh·er it to the train to which it should be delivered, and man was a telegraph operator, but it is not the case now. see that his signal is in proper order, so that the train may be Mr. HINSHAW. It is the case now. held. So I say it is requiring too much, and it is risking too Mr. l\IANN. If the train is to receive orders at a particular much in this day and time, with the numbers of trains that are station, it may be that the operator will deliver them while the rnn to and fro upon the busy trunk lines of this country, to train is in motion, by handing them up; but if he does not hand say that operators shall neglect their duty and hazard the lives up the orders, the train comes to a stop. Now, in my judgment, of its passengers in order to save 25 cents a day, or such a mat­ the passage of an amendment like this will only have this ter, to the railroads of this country. I trust that this amend­ effect: It will relieve the railroad company of its present obliga­ ment will be adopted. [Applause.I tion to deliver the mail at the post-office and from the post- 2790 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-.HOUSE. 1\IAROH 5,

office to the trains. It is certainly not the intention of Congress ment becomes a law, then it will cost the railroad company or the department to require the railroad company to maintain more money, and you will make the argument that they have an extra official at a small station for the sole purpose of carry­ made for years in part good. · ing the mail between the station and the post-ofH.ce, something Mr. AUSTIN. Does the gentleman think they will get any that does not occupy more than ten minutes a day and requires more for transporting the mails? no effort at all. The result will be that the Government will Mr. MURDOCK. I am not able to answer that question. I be called upon to perform that service, which probably will not know the minute your amendment passes you will make the be done without some expense to the Government. argument that they have made for years in part a valid argu­ Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman, under the regulation of the ment and a good argument Post-Office Department, wherever the post-office is within 80 Mr. AUSTIN. Well, the gentleman will place his argument rods of the station, the railroad company must deliver the mail against theirs, that they are now getting more than they are to the post-office. In all the controversies through the years on entitled to. the matter of railway-mail pay the railroads have always Mr. WANGER. Will the gentleman yield for a question? claimed that that requirement was a great injustice to them, Mr. MURDOCK. I will yield to the gentleman. and they have always asked to be relieved from that regulation. Mr. WANGER. The pending amendment does not limit its Now, if the amendment of the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. operations to stations that have only a single operator, but it MURPHY] is agreed to, at those stations where there is a single prohibits the payment to any company which requires any tele­ railroad employee-a telegraph or telephone operator at the graph or telephone operator at any station from handling the station-it will then devolve upon the railroad company to hire mail between the station and the post-office. some one, probably outside of the railroad service, to get that Mr. MURDOCK. That is as I understand it. mail from the railway station to the post-office and back. In Mr. WANGER. That is, whether they have one or a hun· all the controversies over railway mail pay, where railroads dred operators so employed. have made the claim that they ought to have more money for Mr. MURPHY. Do I understand· the gentleman from Kansas the carriage of the mail, one of the reasons they have given is to say that the railroads have been making an argument in that they now transport the mail from railway stations to post­ order to get more money for all these years that this delivery offices within 80 rods of the railroad. Our answer to that con­ was costing them a large sum of money? tention has always been that it did not materially affect the Mr. MURDOCK. Yes. time of the employee of the railroad to make that delivery, and Mr. MURPHY. Would there not be the same old argument that it was not much of an expense, if any, to the railroads. hereafter? [Laughter.] The minute that the amendment of the gentleman from Missouri 1\Ir. MURDOCK. With this exception: That the committee [Mr. MURPHY] become law, then you put an argument in the and Congress have never considered the argument a very valid mouth of the railroad company for an increase of railway mail one, because the mail is usually delivered in these cases by the pay, because then it will cost them something to deliver this mail employees of the raih·oad company who are designated. who are from stations to post-offices. disengaged at the time, to deliver the mail, or could be, without The railroads have always claimed that it cost somewhere be­ any great harm to the service of the railroad company, and tween three and four million dollars per year.' I believe that who are not granted extra compensation for this service. this provision in the law, which we find in the regulations, is [The time of Mr. MURDOCK having expired, by unanimous an antiquity. It came about, in the first place, from the fact consent his time was extended five minutes.] that the stagecoach carried the mail, and the regulation then Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I would like to ask somebody a was that if a new post-office was established within 80 rods of question-some one who knows; I do not care whether it is the the main-traveled road, the stagecoach should turn out and de­ gentleman from Kansas or the gentleman from Missouri. What liver the mail to that post-office without extra cost to the Gov­ proportion of post-offices are within 80 rods of the railway sta- ernment. The stagecoach is gone and the railway is here, but tion? · the old regulation survives. If it is to be changed, it ought to Mr. MURDOCK. I do not know; I will refer that to the gen­ be changed after careful consideration in connection witll the tleman from Missouri. whole question of railway-mail pay. l\fr. MURPHY. The gentleman from Kansas said that the Mr. FASSETT. Does the gentleman think this will work to raih'oad companies make the argument that this additional relieve the railroads? service costs them something, and they want more money. Did Mr. MURDOCK. I think the railroads would certainly stand the committee ever ascertain how much the railroads were do­ for this amendment, and would be pleased to have it come in, ing and what compensation they were receiving for it? because in the end it will result in giving them a further argu­ Mr. MURDOCK. I think the various committees have taken ment for the increase of railway-mail pay. up that subject, and they believe that, under the requirement it was not costing the railroads any extra amount of money t~ Mr. WEEKS. Does not the gentleman agree with me that it deliver the mail in this way. But if you prohibit certain men is not safe to take such an important step without further in­ in the railway service from delivering the mail from the station formation? to the post-office, then you are making good, in part, an argu­ Mr. MURDOCK. I do agree with the gentleman, and I be­ ment that the railroads have made for years. You are vali­ lieve the committee or the House should not touch this matter, dating an argument that we have not considered valid. which looks of comparative unimportance in a certain light, but Mr. ~fUR~HY. Does not the gentleman know that in every may be very great in its effect, without information on the whole case the railroad company has three to five section men at subject. each station? Mr. AUSTIN. Will the gentleman from Kansas yield? Mr. MURDOCK. Well, I am not a railroad man like the Mr. MURDOCK. Certainly. gentleman from Missouri has been, but my idea of section men Mr. AUSTIN. If this amendment is placed on the bill, what is that a good part of the time they are out on the section at is to prevent the Senate committee from going into it fully? work. Mr. MURDOCK. I have found that it is not always profit­ Mr. COX of Indiana. Will the gentlem·an yield for a ques­ able to depend upon the Senate to go into investigations in legis­ tion? lation. I want to say further that in the matter of appropria­ Mr. MURDOCK. Certainly. tion bills the House devotes the major portion of its time to Mr. COX of Indiana. Has the gentleman any information from them, while the Senate, as the gentleman is aware, generally the railroad company's own side, or from any other source, show­ takes our findings and passes our appropriation bills in much ing the cost it is to the railroads to deliver the mail to the post­ less time than we devote to them. offices and the return to the depot where the post-office is Mr. AUSTIN. They will not do it in this case. Now, the wihin 80 rods of the depot? . ~entleman has stated to the House that, in his judgment, we Mr. MURDOCK. I have seen the statement made in the are paying the railroads too much for the transportation of hearings before commissions that the railroads claim that that the mails. service costs them from $3,000,000 to $5,000,000 a year. Mr. MURDOCK. :Yes. Mr. COX of Indiana. To what commissions does the gentle­ Mr. AUSTIN. Then what claim would they have for addi­ man refer? tional compensation on this account? Mr. MURDOCK. I think that information was given in Mr. MURDOCK. One of the main arguments of the rail­ answer to a question by Mr. Eugene Loud before the Wolcott road companies for years for increase in compensation bas commission, although I would not be certain as to that detail. been that this delivery of the mails from the railway stations Mr. HAMLIN. The gentleman says that be bas heard this to post-offices within 80 rods was a great expense to them. I complaint on the part of the railroads that they ought to have do not believe that it is costing the railroad companies much more pay on account of this additional service, but that the money to make these deliveries. But the minute this amend- committee has taken no stock in that. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2791

Mr. MURDOCK. The railroads have always claimed that operator, to have the postmaster himself attend to the transpor­ they ought to be relie-red from this service. tation of the mail? Mr. HAMLIN. And that it costs them something, and there­ Mr. FINLEY. There is no question of that; but it is equally fore they ought to be paid more for the carrying of maiL possible, and at a very small expense to the railroad or other- · lli. MuRDOCK. That inasmuch ns they were not relieved wise, to have this service performed by some one else. from this service and were made to perform it by a regulation Now, the purpose of this amendment is to safeguard human of the department they ought to have more pay for the carriage life in travel. It often happens, and I have seen it happen my­ of the mails than they otherwise would have. self, at one of these small stations, even where there is a tele­ Mr. HAMLIN. That is the point I make, but the committee graph office, a train would come by at a high rate of speed, did not take much stock in that. sometimes passenger trains which do not stop there at all, and l\fr. MURDOCK. They never did. a message from the train would be thrown out. Often the same lli. HAMLIN. But the Postmaster-General seemed to take will happen in the case of a freight train. A message from an a great deal of stock in it. official of the railroad in charge of the train would be dropped Air. MURDOCK. I think not. out. Mr. HAMLIN. In the letter read fi•om the desk here yester­ Mr. MURPHY. lli. Chairman-­ day, is not that the first reason that the Po.stmaster-G~neral Mr. FINLEY. I will yield. gave as a difference between the cost of carrymg the mail and Mr. MURPHY. Can the gentleman tell us who was respon­ the cost of carrying the express? sible for the Terra Cotta wreck here some three or four years Mr. !.IBRDOCK. I did not listen to that letter, and the gen­ ago? Was it not the mistake of an operator? tleman from Massachusetts-- Mr. FINLEY. My understanding is that it was. Mr. HAMLIN. Then I will just read that part of it. Mr. MURPHY. The operator gave the wrong signal? Mr. IiIDRDOCK. Oh, I do not want to go into that matter Mr. FINLEY. Gave the wrong signal. now. The gentleman can read that in his own time. Mr. MURPHY. I will ask the gentleman whose mistake it Mr. HAMLIN. I will read that letter later on. was that caused the death of Samuel Spencer, the president of Mr. MURPHY. Mr. Chairman, I did not catch the gentle­ the Southern Railway Company? man's answer to the question a while ago. Did I understand Mr. Fll\TLEY. Well, my general information on that subject him to say that the railroad companies pay from $3,000,000 to is this, that the Southern Railway at that time worked its $5,000,000 a year for this service, or claim that they do? operators overtime, and it resulted in a very, very great catas­ Mr. IiIBRDOCK. They claim that that service costs them trophe and loss of life. Since that time, I am glad to say, this from $3,000,000 to $5,000,000 a year. condition bas been improved. Mr. MURPHY. I want to state to the gentleman from Kan­ The CHAIRMAN. The time o.f the gentleman has expired. I sas knowing it as I do and from the experience that I have Mr. FINLEY. ask for five minutes more. had and what I know to-day, that the railroads do not pay Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that one cent for this additional service. debate on this amendment be closed in ten minutes. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the Mr. MURDOCK. And I want to say to the gentleman from gentleman from Massachusetts? Missouri that that has been the conclusion of virtually every There was no objection. commission before which they have appeared, and if the gentle­ The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the request of the man from Missouri succeeds in making his amendment law, gentleman from South Carolina that he may continue for five then he makes the claim of the railroads good in that respect. minutes. Is there objection? [After a pause.] The Chair I hope the amendment will be voted down. hears none. Mr. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, the chairman of the Committee Mr. LLOYD. In any of the cases here related, do you know on the Post-Office and Post-Roads, the gentleman from Massa­ that the carrying of the mail in any way interfered with the chusetts [Mr. WEEKS], takes the position that this matter has duty of the operator, or in any of these cases was it true that not been considered by the committee; that we have not suffi­ because he was required to carry the mail the accident oc­ cient information. I think that the gentleman is in .error in curred? one part of his statement, and that is that we have no infor­ Mr. FINLEY. I submit the question to the gentleman from mation. Those of us who have been on the Post-Office Commit­ Missouri [.Mr. MURPHY]. No doubt he is better informed than tee for years past know that it is only in the comparatively I am. small offices of the country, comparatively small railroad sta­ Mr. RUCKER of Missouri We passed a law here a few tions of the country, where there is only one individual, that years ago limiting the day's work for telegraph operators to person the railroad agent ~nd the t~legraph operator. These nine consecutive hours. That was done in order that the men offices, 11.Ir. Chairman, are comparatively few m number, and might not be overworked. Now, does it make any difference in any claim made here that the passage of the amendment offered its practical results whether the overwork consists in the ex­ by the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. MURPHY], a limitation on cess of hours or amount of duty required to be performed? this appropriation, will cost the railroad companies of the Mr. FINLEY. The merit of the amendment offered by the United States $3,000,000 or $5,000,000 or $2,000,000 a year, is gentleman from Missouri lies in this fact: That a telegraph a statement not founded in fact. It will cost no such sum, nor operator in charge of a telegraph office should be at his post of will it cost anything like that. There are very few offices of duty all the time when, by the rules of the railroad, that office that character. This amendment will only apply where there is required to be kept open, so that he may receive any and all is only one person at a railroad station. messages relative to the dispatch of trains or the running of . Mr. FASSETT. There is nothing in the amendment to trains. It is in this way only that the public may be safe· limit it. guarded in travel, and ·I think the amendment is meritorious. Mr. FINLEY. Oh, the gentleman.knows that I am speaking I think it would cost practically nothing to the railroads or to of the amendment in its practical application. The gentleman anybody else. The number of these offices, in my opinion, is from New York understands that, and he knows as well as any very, very small. man on this floor that where a railroad office is large enough Mr. FASSETT. Why do you not limit the amendment, then? to require the service of more than one person then there is no Mr. FINLEY. Where there is more than one person engaged necessity for the telegraph operator performing that service, and in the service of the railroad at a railroad station, that other that is the point I make. At many of the offices in this country, person can carry the mail. So the effect of this amendment where the post-office is within 80 rods of the railroad station, will only be to apply this rule to offices where there is only one there are 2, 3, and often a score and more of persons in the person. employ of the railroad. Any one of those persons other than Mr. LLOYD. The gentleman from South Carolina [Mr. the telegraph operator can perform this service, and as a matter FINLEY] is one of the best informed men on postal regulations of fact they do perform that service to-day. So the amendment that there is in this House. He has given this matter par­ of the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. MURPHY] in its practical ticular atttention in the committee when it has been consid­ effect will only apply to a few small railroad stations in the ered. Do you believe that it would be the right t.lit.ng, on country where there is only one person employed by the rai.1- notice of the department, to require the postmaster to go to the :r;oad at that station. depot at these little stations and obtain the mail? Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. Will the gentleman yield for Mr. FINLEY. I will say to the gentleman that under the a question right there? discretion that is now lodged in the Postmaster-General, he Mr. FINLEY. Certainly. can by a little regulation bring about exactly what the gentle­ Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. Would it not be possible at man from Missouri asks in his question. · · each of these small number of stations, to which the gentleman Mr. LLOYD. If the postmasters were required to do it, it -has referred, where there is employed but one man, and he the would not cost the Government any additional sum? 2792 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. MA.ROH 5,

Mr. FINLEY. Not a cent; and eve~ if the Postmaster­ Mr. FASSETT. Why, certainly; the report of the Wolcott General does not by regulation so order matters, as the gentle­ commission. man from Missouri has suggested, then it will cost the rail- Mr. HAMLIN. I have heard of the report of the Wolcott • roads very little. I am not one of those who stand here and commission for the last ten years. believe in conservatism of conditions as they exist. This is a Mr. FASSETT. And the report of the Overstreet commission ; progressive age, and the volume of travel increases each year. and if the gentleman will read them, he will see that something Mr. LLOYD. Do you think it would be any hardship upon has been done. the postmasters of these little places to be required to go to Mr. HAMLI N. Oh, let us not go so far back into ancient his· the stations and get the mail? tory, but let us come down to the present time. . What is the Mr. FINLEY. Candidly I do not, and that matter can be report, if any, now? arranged by executive order. Mr. l!.,ASSETT. ~If you are coming down to present times, the Mr. MURPHY. If the gentleman will allow me, in nearly effort is already being made. all of these places the postmaster receives from $10 to $15 a Mr. HAMLIN. I would be ashamed to stand on the floor month more than the operator who delivers the mail and plead what was done ten years ago. I will tell you what I l\fr. FINLEY. . No doubt that is often true. I think the think the trouble is. They talk to us to-day about a $63,000,000 amendment of the gentleman from Missouri is a good one, and deficit in the Post-Office Department. If that department could hope the Committee of the Whole will adopt it. be transformed from a political headquarters for the Repub­ Mr. HAMLIN. I shall not occupy but a moment of the com­ lican party into a business department, then there would be no mittee's time, but I want to make this one suggestion: I have $63,000,000 deficit. [Applause on the Democratic side.] had a little bit of the experience that my colleague from Mis­ · Mr. FASSETT. And yet gentlemen on that side want to make souri has had as a railroad station agent, having filled that re­ every post-office a political headquarters by requiring that post­ sponsible and unremunerative position at one time, and I am masters be elected. prepared to believe that his statement is almost entirely accu­ The CHAIRMAN. The time for debate has expired. The rate. But I am not going into that feature of it now. I want question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from to reply to my esteemed friend from Kansas [Mr. MunnocK], Missouri [Mr. MURPHY]. in whose judgment I have the very greatest confidence. I be­ The question being taken, on a division ((lemanded by l\fr. lieve, though, that the solution of the whole proposition is sim­ l\IUBPHY) there were-ayes 30, noes 43. ple. While I am convinced that the expense incurred by the Mr. MURPHY. Tellers ! railroads in conveying the mails from the station to the post­ Tellers were ordered, and the Chairman appointed Mr. office and back again, where the post-office is within 80 rods of WEEKS and Mr. MURPHY. the station, is, in a majority of instances, very small or nothing, The committee again divided, and the tellers reported-ayes yet they always plead that as a reason why increased pay 35, noes 57. should be given them. It seems to me the matter can be solved Accordingly the amendment was rejected. in this way by the Government : Require each one of these Mr. GARRETT. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amend­ railroad companies who make this claim to file with the Post­ ment. Office Department a statement of the expenses that this service The CHAIRl\IAN. The gentleman from Tennessee offers an entaiJs upon them each year. It is a matter easily ascertained; amendment, which will be reported by the Clerk. and if it is a million dollars over the entire country, or three The Clerk read as follows : millions or five millions of dollars, then let the department de­ Page 19, line 18, after the word " dollars," insert : duct that amount from the total amount paid to the railroad "Provided,. That no part of this a~ount sl!-all be paid to any railway companies for carrying the mail, and rE;ilieve the companies ~~E:\~I :'n~1c~~oc~r~~.~ have all mail cars m use on its line of sound from this service, and then the Post-Office Department can use this money so deducted in employing somebody to carry this Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I should like to make an ex­ mail from the station to the post-office and return. · planation. Under the present law the department has the op­ In doing that, I am satisfied that the Government would save tion of indicating the kind ot car, the manner of construction of two-thirds or more of the amount that the railroads claim this the car, the arrangement of the car, and the amount of equip­ service costs them. As said by the gentleman from South Caro­ ment required for conducting this service. I do not think that lina, there are very few stations that this amendment would the amendment offered by the gentleman from Tennessee adds affect. I know from my experience and observation that it is anything to the present limitations of the law, and it simply extremely hazardous to require the telegraph operator, who is complicates the question with. something which has not been charged with the movement of trains, and upon whose conduct considered by the committee. depends the lives of hundreds of people, to be compelled to cart Mr. GARRETT. Mr. Chairman, it is true that under the act this mail from the station to the post-office and from the post­ of 1879 a certain discretion is lodged in the department in fixing office back to the station again. But the Government can fur­ the conditions with reference to cars; but I do not think the de­ nish somebody to be paid a very small salary out of the amount partment has ever satisfied itself fully of the construction that allowed to the railroad to do this work. can be placed upon that act. For instance, I find in the hear­ Mr. COX of Indiana. Does the gentleman from Missouri ings this year that Mr. Stewart, the Second Assistant Postmaster­ know that since 1872 there has been a law on the statute books General, expressed doubt whether under that act the depart· requiring the railroads to furnish to the Postmaster-General a ment would have the right to order a company to build a steel statement showing the cost it was to the railroad to transport car. The department is in doubt about the particular construc­ the mail, and up to the present time that law has been· a dead tion of that act, evidently; but whatever power the depart­ letter on the statute books? ment may have, I wish to say that it is unquestionably true l\Ir. II.A.l\ILIN. Why? that there are cars now in the service that ought not to be in l\Ir. COX of Indiana. That would reach back to a criticism, the service. and would reach the Postmaster-General for not enforcing it. I Mr. WEEKS. May I ask the gentleman from Tennessee a want to say in that connection that recently the Postmaster­ question? · General has called upon the railroads to transmit to the Post­ Mr. GARRETT. Certainly. Office Department this information, and I understand they are Mr. WEEKS. Has the gentleman seen such cars himself? now preparing it. Mr. GARRETT. I am reliably informed that there is now Mr. HA.l\ILIN. Mr. Chairman, I do not make this statement hanging in an office at Memphis, Tenn., a rotten plank from a in the spirit of criticism; but it appears to me that these an­ railway mail car that was crusted in a wreck on a railroad a nual endeavors on the part of the Post-Office Department to get few miles out of Memphis less than a year ago. this information occurs just about the time each year that they - Mr. ·WEEKS. I submit that that plank is not now in the serv­ want to put through the post-office appropriation bill, and after ice, and that that <:ar is not now in the service. that bill is through then their efforts seem to cease in that Mr. GARRETT. Three railway mail clerks were injured in regard until it is about time to pass another appropriation bill. that car when it was crushed like an eggshell. The planks Mr. FASSETT. I do not think that is a fair statement. were rotten when the wreck occurred, and the clerks suffered Mr. HA.l\ILIN. You do not think it is a fair statement? Then by reason of the unsound condition of the car. I say it is a fair statement for this reason, that we are told Mr. SHERLEY. And some of the clerks are not in the serv­ that they make this effort every year; but no living man upon ice now either. this floor is able to put his finger on any report ever made on Mr. GARRETT. And some of the clerks are not now in the the subject. · service. Again, there has come under my observation a case Mr. FASSETT. I beg the gentleman's pardon. that occurred last fall not very far away from -my home, in Mr. HAMLIN. Can the gentleman cite me to such a report? which two young men from my own county were caught in a 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2793 car that had been in use for twenty years and were crushed to by the Pennsylvania Railroad. I understand the Pennsylvania death. Again, less than a month ago, on another railway run­ Railroad is going to supply that kind of a car in future. In ning through the district in which I live, a car that had been in many cases the department has stipulated that cars with a the service for more than twenty years was caught in a wreck, steel frame or a metal platform shall be used. There is no and the four clerks who were in it at the time were injured evidence before the committee that there are unsafe cars in seriously, though none of them were killed. Mr. Chairman, it is use in this service. my recollection that the statistics show that one out of every Mr. GARRETT. Will the gentleman yield? ·'-.""~:,.... ~ twenty mail clerks is either killed or injured in the service. Mr. WEEKS. Certainly. . The mail ~ar is the most dangerous point in the train. All Mr. GARRETT. The gentleman from Massachusetts does things considered, perhaps these railway mail crews are com­ not mean to say that it is under the direction of the depart­ posed of as efficient men as there are in the country. They are ment that the Pennsylvania Railroad is constructing steel cars? always working at the point of greatest danger; and while I Mr. WEEKS. I do not think the department has ever taken would not undertake now, because it would not be effective, by the position that they could insist on steel cars. any amendment on this appropriation bill to compel railway Mr. SHERLEY. Mr. Chairman, it is true that the Penn­ companies to build steel cars, yet I do believe that they ought sylvania Railroad is installing some of the best and most mod­ to be required to furnish cars that are sound in material and in ern cars, but we are not speaking of that situation. It is also structure. true that on some of the roads and branches of the roads where Mr. COX of rndiana. Will the gentleman yield for a ques­ the demand for up-to-date cars is not great and where the tion? money of the road is not sufficient, or at least they do not Mr. GARRETT. Certainly. think it is sufficient to enable them to get new stock, cars are Mr. COX of Indiana. Does not th~ gentleman believe that being used that do endang'2r the lives of the employees. The the railroads ought to be compelled to furnish steel railway mail reason I speak of that is that the gentleman from Massachu­ cars? setts opposes an amendment that would limit the appropriation Mr. GARRETT. They ought to be strong cars. Whether for any such cars. If that is true, then the responsibfilty is they ought to be steel cars or not there is a question. Whether upon him and upon the department to see to it that in the they ought to be all-steel cars or a steel base only is a question, future there shall be no criticism due to the use of cars that but they ought to be compelled to furnish safe cars. are not safe. Mr. COX of Indiana. The gentleman understands that the Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, there is no testimony before proof shows that a steel car can be built for $14,000 or $15,000. the Post-Office Committee that unsafe cars are being used now. Mr. GARRETT. About twice the cost of the ordinary car. Mr. SHERLEY. There is testimony being brought here on Mr. COX of Indiana. The ordinary car costing $6,500 or the floor of the House to that effect. $7,500. l\Ir. WEEKS. The committee inquired particularly about Mr. GARRETT. I think they should be compelled to furnish that, at considerable length, and found out what was being cars sound in material and structure. I am willing to go into done to provide safe cars for the government employees. that question of steel cars, but of course we can not here on The committee appreciates the necessity, as much as the gen­ this amendment or by amendment to this bill. tleman from Kentucky [Mr. SHERLEY], that the best possible The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered equipment should be furnished for this service. It has not seen by the gentleman from Tennessee. fit to stipulate that all cars furnished should be steel, but there The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by is not a word of testimony before the committee that the equip­ Mr. GARBETT) there were 25 ayes and 38 noes. ment is not improving in quality, that the department is not So the amendment was rejected. stipulating the kind of car that is being used, and that, on the The Clerk read as follows: whole, the equipment is not in good shape. The ·statement The provision of the act of March 2, 1907, entitled "An act making made by the gentleman from Kentucky, I submit, is not testi­ appropriations for the service of the Post-Office Department for the fiscal year ending June 30, 1908, and for other purposes," authorizing mony. He has an impression that men are killed and injured adjustment of compensation to be paid for the transportation of mail in railway accidents. They are killed and injured; there is no on Land-grant railroads at the rate of $17.10 for each 2,000 pounds doubt about that. carried in excess of -48,000 pounds, is hereby amended to authorize the adjustment of compensation at $15.39 for such weight from July 1, l\Ir. SHERLEY. Mr. Chairman, it is not simply that I have 1910. an impression now, but I know, from the reading of the ac­ Mr. SHERLEY. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last counts of the accidents as to the damage done to these cars, as word. I do this for the purpose of asking the gentleman in compared with other cars coupled right with them, that they charge of the bill some questions relative to the matter just are not cars of the same strength and resisting power. That is talked about by the gentleman from Tennessee. As I under­ not a matter of inference; it is a matter of fact. stand, the law now requires the Interstate Commerce Commis­ Mr. WEEKS. The gentleman may know from some news­ sion to make a report to the Post-Office Department as to any paper account, which could not be verified. defects that they find in regard to postal-mail cars, and so [The time of Mr. SHERLEY having expired, by unanimous con­ forth. sent he was granted five minutes more.] Mr. WEEKS. I think that is true. Mr. SHERLEY. Mr. Chairman, I know, also, from the state­ Mr. SHERLEY. I am quite sure that it is true. ment made to me personally by railroad clerks engaged in the Mr. STAFFORD. As corroborating the gentleman from Ken­ service, who have investigated the matter. There was an acci­ tucky I want to say that the Interstate Commerce Commission dent in Indiana recently, within eighteen months-I can not does have agents for inspection of these postal cars and that recite the place now-where there were several men injured they make their report to the Post-Office Department. and, it may be, some killed, where the car was not of sufficient Mr. SHERLEY. Now, what I am coming to is the important strength, and there are plenty of roads down in the South where fact-whether anything ever comes out of these reports. Fr.om that condition is existing to-day. I simply wanted to make the what.I can learn the Post-Office Department seems to be very statement to the gentleman that if the House is going to take hostile to the idea that the Interstate Commerce Commission the responsibility of saying that we, who desire to, shall not should have anything to do with the matter, and that these re­ amend the bill so as to correct this condition, then you who so ports are received and filed and that is the end of them. vote and the department must see to it that the condition does I feel very strongly in line with the remarks of the gentleman not continue. [Applause.] from Tennessee. You hardly ever read of a railroad wreck in Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, the most that the gentleman the South-and it is particularly true there because of the older from Kentucky [Mr. SHERLEY] says is very accurately said. I rolling stock, the companies being less able financially to put think, however, that it is not quite true that the postal car is on new stock-that you do not learn of a postal car being so much inferior to the baggage car or the coaches. The truth smashed to pieces in the wreck, whereas at the same time the is that a very large proportion of the cars now used by the baggage car and the express car and the Pullman car are not railroad companies, constructed of wood, are really fit only for substantially injured. That is due to the fact that the cars kindling wood; and if it were possible to at once construct are unsafe. I would like to know what the Post-Office Depart­ sufficient steel cars to handle the passenger business of the ment is doing as to reports made by the Interstate Commerce country, I think our committee would bring in a bill to that Commission. effect. The railroad companies have learned recently, in the Mr. WEEKS. I am not able to give the gentleman from last few years, that they have got to construct steel cars, and Kentucky absolute information on that subject, but I want to there are now in construction several large plants throughout say that it is within the province of the department to limit the the country for the sole purpose of constructing steel cars; and kind of cars that are furnished for this service and to limit I think that as soon as there are sufficient. establishments to the character of construction of new cars. The department furnish the steel cars in place of the wooden cars Congress will does that. There are 50 steel cars in this service recently built be called upon and it ought to pass a law forbidding the -pse 2794 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD- HOUSE. MARCH 5,

of any wooden car either as a passenger car, an express car, a The Clerk read as follows: baggage car, or a postal car in interstate commerce. Amend on page 19 by striking out all of the paragraph after the Mr. SLAYDEN. Are they still constructing the wooden cars? word " purposes," in line 23, and insert : Mr. MANN. They are still constructing wooden cars, more "Fixing the compensation to be paid for transportation of mail on land-grant railroads at the rate of 17.10 for each 2,000 pounds carried or less, because there are not sufficient establishments yet to in excess of 48,000 pounds is hereby amended to make such rate and construct a sufficient quantity of steel cars. The average compensation after June 30, 1910, $15.13 for each 2,000 pounds carried wooden coach is just as ·bad in that respect as the average 1n exce s of 48,000 pounds, and the Postmaste~-GeJ?eral is hereby au­ thorized and directed to readjust the compensation m accordance with wooden postal car. The Pullman cars are so strongly con­ this amendment." structed that it is a very rare thing for anyone in those cars to be injured in a wreck, and every coach and every car in a Mr. WANGER. Mr. Chairman, the postal act of 1907, fixing passenger train ought to be so constructed that it is practically the rates of railway mail pay, not only authorized the Post­ impossible for it by a mere collision to be smashed up. master-General to readjust that pay, but it fixed the rates and l\fr. SHERLEY. l\!r. Chairman, I appreciate the difficulty, declared that the rate of pay to land-grant railroads for each and I realize that we could not to-day require the substitution 2,000 pounds carried above 48,000 pounds should be $17.10. . of steel cars for mail cars now in use, but what I want to im­ Now that is a higher price than is paid for the same we1ght press upon the committee is· this fact, that there are wooden of maii under the 48,000 pounds, and consequently is a seeming cars to-day being used in the mail service of such a character absurdity, and it is excessive, and very appropriately ought to as to make it ab olutely sure that in case of accident they are be reduced. The pending bill provides that the Postmaster­ going to be crushed like an eggshell. General shall readjust the compensation to be paid these land­ Mr. MAl\~. That is true also of the coaches. grant railroads at $15.39, but it does not reduce the legal !ate Mr. SHERLEY. But it is, I believe, even more true of the of compensation to those roads from $17.10, as now provided mail car. by law. Accordingly, the amendment which I offer, in the first Mr. MANN. Oh, they use coaches worse than mail cars. place, reduces the rate of compensi:tion to $15.39 for each 2,000 Mr. SHERLEY. That fact is found in the ratio of the killed pounds above 48,000 pounds earned annually, and t?en au­ and injured of postal clerks as compared with other peop1e thorizes and directs the Postmaster-General to readJust the traveling on those trains. compensation. .l\fr. .MANN. The postal clerks occupy the most dangerous Mr. SMITH of Michigan. Will the gentleman yield for a position in a pas enger train. question? Mr. SHERLEY. That is true, and one of the reasons it is Mr. WANGER. Certainly. the most dangerous is the character of the car they are in. . Mr. SMITH of :Michigan. I think you will admit that the Mr. l\IANN. I am perfectly willing to admit, as far as that whole section is subject to a point of order, will you not? is concerned, that the cars are not of the proper character. l\Ir. WANGER. It was subject to a point of order, but, hav­ They ought to be made as safe as possible, and I am quite con­ ing been debated, of course is not at this time. vinced that the railroad companies appreciate that fact more Mr. SMITH of Michigan. I sought to get recognition for the or less-not all of them-- purpose of making a point of order. . 1\Ir. SHERLEY. More or less, but I fear a good deal less, Mr. w ANGER. There have been two amendments. First, and the poor roads-- the gentleman from Kentucky [l\Ir. SHERLEY] moved to amend. Mr. MANN. If the gentleman will permit me, I will .say that That was debated for a long time. as rapidly as establishments are created which will be able to The CHA!Rl\IAN. The question is on the amendment offered furnish proper complements of cars the railroad companies, by the gentleman from Pennsylvania. whether they wish to do so or not, in my judgment, can and will Mr. S:l\IITH of :Michigan. I would like to be reco~iz~ to be obliged to discard the present kindling wood they use and make a point of order to this section, that it is ne~ legtSlation. furnish steel cars which can not be smashed. Mr. MANN. I respectfully suggest that the pomt of order :Mr. SHERLEY. I desire to say-- comes somewhat late, the matter having been debated for the Mr. l\!ANN. .And I am glad that this matter has been called last twenty minutes. to the attention not only of the Committee on the Post-Office and Mr. SMITH of Michigan. It was not debated; gentlemen Post-Roads, but to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign were debating a previous section about railway-mail matter Commerce which would have jurisdiction over the car question, The CHAIRMAN. Debate took place. It seems to the Chair including postal cars and other classes of cars, and it is a live that the gentleman from Michigan should have made known hiS wishes before this. ' . matter in our committee. It is true we could go on and compel Mr. SMITH of Michigan. How could I when the Chair the railroads as soon as they are able, to substitute good cars.· recognized some one before? He recognized the gentleman from Mr. SHERLEY. But there is not a man in America but that Kentucky and the gentleman from Illinois, and now he has knows it is only by continual pressure that we forced the rail­ recornized the gentleman from Penn ylvania. roads to adopt many of the safety devices that are used now, The CHAIRMAN. Because the Chair recognized one gentle­ and I for one am not willing to let the matter rest optionally man to offer an amendment does not prevent another from with the railroads. I appreciate there is some reason why they making a point of order. The Chair will hold that the point must not be expected to do the matter overnight, but unless of order comes too late. pressure is brought, and strong pressure, on the railroads, they Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman, I rise for the purpose of will always have an excuse not to do something that costs them asking the gentleman from Pennsylvania, very briefly, in what money . particular does the gentleman's amendment differ from the pro­ .l\Ir. WEEKS. Ur. Chairman, I would like the attention of vision in the bill? the gentleman from Kentucky [Mr. SHERLEY] and of the com­ Mr. WANGER. I will state to the gentleman from Kansas mittee, to show them that the department is not unmindful ?f that the provision in the bill simply authorizes the adjt;S.tment its responsibilities and obligations in these cases. I agree 1? of compensation at $15.39, but does not repeal the provision of general terms with the gentleman from Kentucky that this the act of 1907, which fixes that as the rate to the land~grant service should be improved wherever it is possible to do it, b~t railroads. r do not want the impression to go out that the department is Mr. MURDOCK. I thank the ge~tleman. J.lot taking every bu iness precaution to prevent serious acci­ The CHAllMAN. The que tion is on agreeing to the amend- dents to its employees. Let me read from the report of the ment offered by the gentleman from Pennsylvania. Second Assistant Po tmaster-General : The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. With the usual careful attention to improvement in car equipment The Clerk read as follows: and the activity in car con truction and renewals up

that purpose, and it is made immediately available, so that it postal cards. There is no depository for newspaper wrappers can be used as soon as this bill is passed. and stamped envelopes for distribution to other post-offices. Mr. MANN. Has the gentleman any idea as to how long this Mr. :MANN. Has there ever been a carload lot of newspaper service will have to continue? The gentleman knows as well wrappers sent out at one time? as I do that when.clerks are employed in a matter of this sort Mr. STAFFORD. I question whether there has been a car­ it is a great temptation to delay the final completion of the load lot of newspaper wrappers alone; but very likely some of work. the large post-offices of the country, such as Chicago and New Mr. WEEKS. Why, Mr. Chairman, the appropriation is lim- York, would make up a composite order of newspaper wrappers ited to $10,000. I take it that in perhaps two months this work and stamped envelopes, and where there was a carload lot they may be done; but it will depend entirely on the number of would be sent by freight. · clerks employed for that purpose. . Mr. MANN. Does the committee know what proportion of Mr. MANN. I will withdraw the point of order. postage stamps, postal cards, stamped envelopes, and news- The Clerk read as follows: paper wrappers are sent by freight, in proportion to the total For pa.y of freight or expressage on postal cards, stamped en:velopes, quantity consumed? newspaper wrappers, and empty mail bags, $375,000. And the Post- Mr. STAFFORD. I can not give the gentleman that informa­ master-General shall require, when in freightable lots and whenever tion. I do not believe we made that inquiry of the officials when practicable, the withdrawal from the mails of all postal cards, stamped they were before the committee. envelopes, newspaper wrappers, empty mail bags, furniture, equip- ment, and other supplies for the postal service, except postage stamps, Mr. EDWARDS of Georgia. Will the gentleman yield? in the respective weighing divisions of the country, immediately preced- Mr. STAFFORD. I yield to the gentleman from Georgia. ing the weighing period in said divisions, and thereafter such postal M EDWARDS f G · Ar th t 1 d · t d b cards, stamped envelopes, newspaper wrappers, empty mail bags, furni- r. O eorgia. e e pos a car s pnn e Y ture, equipment, and other supplies for •tbe postal service, except the Government? · postage stamps, shall be transmitted by either freight or express. Mr. STAFFORD. For many years postal cards were printed Mr. MANN. I reserve the point of order. I un.der a private contract at Rumford Falls, Me. They were Mr. SMITH of Michigan. I would like to make a parlia- pr~ted there for f<;>rty or fifty !ears; but when that coi;itr~ct mentary inquiry. Can a gentleman make a point of order un- 1 expired last year, bids ~ere put 1!1 by the Government Prmting less the Chairman recognizes him? O~ce~ and the work is now bemg done at the Government Mr. MANN. I reserve the point of order upon the paragraph, Pr.mting Office .. I should pref~r to have the gentleman defer as I did a moment ago, without recognition of the Chair. this matter until we reach ~e item of post:al cards. . . . The CHA.IRl\IA.N. As soon as a paragraph is read it is the l\Ir. EDWARD~ of Georgia. I s?-ould. lik~ to ask the cha1r- right of any Member to make a point of order. He does not man of th~ c?nu;i1ttee whether an mvestigation has been made have to be recognized to make the point of order. to ascertam if it would not be a great deal cheaper for the Mr. SMITH of Michigan. Then, as the Chair understands, it Government to manufacture these postal cards and stamped is the right of the Member without being- recognized at all? envelopes rather than to contract for them? The CHA.IR1\1A.N. A Member can rise and make a point or 1\fr. W:EEK~. For many years heretofore, as the gentleman reserve it, as the gentleman from Illinois has just now done. from Wisconsm [Mr. STAFFORD] stated, the Government con- 1\fr. l\IA.NN. 1\Iay I ask the gentleman from l\Iassachusetts tracted for the manufacture of postal cards, but recently, as a how much is paid now by the Government for freight and how result of bids, it awarded the contract to the Government Print­ much for express on these post-office supplies? ing Office. The character of card which it proposes to manufac­ Mr. WEEKS. I will yield to the gentleman from Wisconsin. ture is very different from the old card. The old card cost Mr. STAFFORD. While the committee did not ascertain the about 21 cents a thousand, and the card that will be manufac­ amount paid respectively for freight and express, as I recollect tured by the Government hereafter will cost about 30 cents a the hearings of last year the amount paid for freight was many thousand. times that paid for expressage. The department only utilizes Mr. MANN. I withdraw the point of order. the express, as I remember the hearings of a year ago, where l\fr. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, I offer the amendment which the character of the article is such that it should be sent by I send to the Clerk's desk. freight and has been withdrawn from the mails during the The CHA,.IRl\IA.N. The gentleman from South Carolina offers -weighing period, and through some urgent need at some post- an amendment, which will be reported by the Clerk. office to which it is dispatched it should be sent quickly. In The Clerk read as follows: these cases the department believes it would be an imposition •Amend, on page 20, line 10, after the words "freight or expressage on the railroad when that character of equipment has been on," by inserting the words "magazines and periodicals." . h . . ' . . . . Amend, on page 20, line 15, after the word " all," by Inserting the wit drawn durmg the weighing period, to send it through the words "magazines and periodicals·." mails when the exigencies of service demand quicker dispatch Amend, on page 20, line 20, before the words "postal cards," by than by freight. inserting the words "magazines and periodicals." Mr. MANN. Well, the law prohibits them from sending if by Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order· on mail. I suppose they pay some attention to the law in that that. respect. . 1\Ir. LIVINGSTON. Mr. Chairman, how will that read if the Mr. STAFFORD. While the law prohibits that, of course it amendment is adopted? is merely directory, and it might be abused by nonobservance. 1\Ir. FINLEY. If I may answer the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. MANN. I apprehend there is no such intention. Now, I it will simply add magazines and periodicals to what is in this should like to ask, Are postal cards, stamped envelopes, and paragraph. The department will pay the freight or expressage newspaper wrappers sent-to any extent by freight? on magazines and periodicals, in addition to postal cards, l\fr. S'l'AFFORD. They are only sent by freight when they stamped envelopes, newspaper wrappers, and empty mail sacks. are in carload lots, but when in less quantit~es than carload lots It simply adds the magazines and periodicals to the items I they are sent through the mails. have mentioned when in freightable lots. Mr. l\IA.NN. Then, all of these supplies sooner or later get in Now, under the law these items when in freightable lots, the mail? except magazines and periodicals, are shipped by freight or ex- 1\fr. STAFFORD. So far as those that have just been des- press, so that this amendment will simply add to it magazines ignated are concerned-that is, postal cards, stamped envelopes, and periodicals. and newspaper wrappers, but not the empty mail bags or other Mr. 1\1.ANN. Will the gentleman yield? equipment designated here. Mr. FINLEY. I will yield. Mr. MANN. I was asking about postal cards, stamped en- l\fr. MANN. Suppose the gentleman's amendment is incor- velopes, and newspaper wrappers. Where do they send those porated into law and there was a bundle of magazines to go i,n carload lots? from New York to California in a freightable lot, which means l\Ir. STAFFORD. Whenever a post-office makes a requisi- by freight or express, would it not be incumbent on the Post­ tion upon the department for .postal cards, stamped envelopes, Office Department in that case to se.nd these magazines by or newspaper wrappers in sufficient quantities to amount to a express? carload lot, they will be sent to the large post-offices which act l\lr. FINLEY. It could be done in that way. as depositories and as distributing agen.cies for the post-offices Mr. MANN. Would not that be much more expensive than to in that locality. send them by mail? Mr. MANN. How many such post-offices are there? Mr. FINLEY. I do not know about that. I will say that the Mr. STAFFORD. I should say in the neighborhood of 20 department would do what was best and cheapest in the to 25. To be accurate, I will say that there is a different sys- premises. tern as to stamped envelopes and newspaper wrappers than there Mr. MANN. Would the Post-Office Department be warranted is as to postal cards. The depository feature only applies to in sending mail matter, magazines, by freight from ~ew York 2796 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. l\fARCH 5,

to California when ·in the ordinary course of business su{;h Mr. FINLEY. lli. Chairman, I have made no special study freight would take from two to three weeks' time, whereas to of that legal proposition, but, answering offhand, I will say send it by express would only take a few days' time? Would that I have not any very serious doubt about his right to do so. not the department feel it incumbent to send it by express, Mr. COX of Indiana. The gentleman thinks, then, in other though under the gentleman's amendment it would cost more words, that the publisher of magazines has the same right to than it would to send it by mail? ship a carload of magazines by freight the same as a dealer in Mr. FINLEY. I want to say that it would do no such thing. wheat would have the right to ship a carload of wheat. Mr. MURPHY. May I ask the gentleman a question? Mr. FINLEY. Yes; I say that offhand without any special Mr. FINLEY. Certainly. study. I say I think he can. But I think the department can Mr. MURPHY. Would it not be better to pay the increased preclude him from shipping and then placing his publications in cost during the weighing of the mail? the mail. . Mr. Sl\IITH of California. Would it not be still better to Mr. COX of Indiana. I think the gentleman is quite right. send all th~ mail by e..'rpress during the weighing period and So far as my investigations are concerned on that point they bring it down to a science? [Laughter.] have led me to this conclusion, that the publisher of a magazine Mr. FINLEY. The question which ·the gentleman from Illi­ has a perfect right to ship his magazin~s by freight just as a nois propounds, that the department would be compelled to wheat dealer has the right to ship his wheat. send it by express, is not pertinent now. The contention is that Mr. FINLEY. And they do it now. the express rates are a great deal cheaper, but I will not go into that. Mr. COX of Indiana. I think so. I will say that this provides for sending by freight or ex­ Mr. FINLEY. They do it at this time to a large extent. press. Is there a man in the House here that does not know Mr. MANN. Then, if the gentleman wants to require the that the Post-Office Department would send it in the manner magazines to be shipped by freight, why does he not propose that would cost the Government the least money? As to its that they shall not be received in the mail, and let the man taking two or three weeks to send a shipment of magazines who publishes them have control of the shipment of them by from the great publishing houses in New York to California, freight? ,_, of course it would not take any time like that. · Certainly ten Mr. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman's question is a days would be sufficient. complete answer to it. Mr. SMITH of California. By what movement? Mr. MANN. I should say not. .Mr. FINLEY. By freight. Mr. FINLEY. I think it is. 1\Ir. SMITH of California. Let me give the gentleman some Mr. l\fANN. If the owner of a magazine is going to have his information. When I was at home I had a carload of news magazines shipped by freight, I can say to the gentleman he paper come from some place in Wisconsin to California, and it would much rather have control of the shipment and the rout­ was exactly fifty-one days from Chicago to my place. ing of it than to turn it over to the Post-Office Department. Mr. FINLEY. That was a case of lost freight, where it had Mr. FI1'1LEY. I will say this, that at present a great deal got out of the way. of second-class matter for short hauls is sent by express. For Mr. SMITH of California. We uniformly give ourselves long hauls it is sent by mail. Now, my contention is to amend sixty days from the time we put in an order for a carload of the law as it is to-day with reference to mail equipment and paper until we expect to get it. It does not always take sixty newspaper wrappers and postal cards, by including magazines days. and periodicals, when in freightable lots. I can not see, Mr. Mr. FThTLEY. That is, a carload of paper. Chairman, how this will interfere with the circulation of maga~ Mr. SMITH of California. Yes; but that would apply to zines and periodicals. I can not see it in any light except that carload shipments of anything. it will amount to a saving of millions of dollars to the postal Mr. FINLEY. Now, Mr. Chairman, I think everybody here service. Why, we have it that the shipment by freight to-day will agree that when the Post-Office Department ships mail saves the Government $3,000,000 annually. That is the esti­ matter under the present law, it ships it by freight in freight­ mate, and I hope I have the attention of the gentleman from able lots, and there has been no sort of complaint that it has Mississippi [Mr. S1ssoN] now, that the shipment of these items ever been delayed in shipment, or anything of that kind. That saves to the Government $3,000,000 annually. very fact is an argument why there would be no delay in this The cost here is $375,000 by way of freight for these items case. The magazines are print~d thirty days ahead, as th~ that I have mentioned, und if they were to go through the mail gentleman from California knows. it would be at a cost of $3,000,000. Of course, then, we would Mr. SMITH of California. I think the gentleman will recog­ not have the item for $375,000. So that if this amendment is nize the difference between postal cards and wrappers, which passed it will amount to a great deal of saving to the Govern­ have no season, and a magazine which ordinarily gives itself ment; and if the law is enforced as it should be, and if there not more than ten days at the outside. is a new ruling by the Post-Office Department that less than a Mr. FINLEY. The gentleman knows that if there was any carload lot is a freightable lot, then it will amount to many undue delay in the shipping of postal cards or newspaper millions of dollars' saving, at least four times what it is to-day, wrappers, there would have been complaints made, and they on account of shipping newspaper wrappers and postal cards would have been brought before the Post-Office Committee, and and mail equipment by freight. So I think, Mr. Chairman, that the gentJeman knows that there have been no complaints of the amendment is a good one. that kind. So the question of delay cuts no sort of figure here. As to the point of order, I do not think that will lie at all. If you do this, it will be possible to save this Government a However, if the amendment that I have offered is not in order, great deal of money. We want to pay the railroad.s for what then the paragraph in the bill that I am attempting to amend ·they do. We want to pay them for what is necessary only. is also subject to the point of order; and if the paragraph under Now, the law that is on the statute books provides for the consideration is subject to a point of order, then certainly under shipping of these items that I have mentioned when in freight­ all parliamentary usage any germain amendment is in order on able lots. It will not interfere with the circulation of the that paragraph. periodicals and magazines at all to add this to the law as it is Mr. COX of Indiana. Will the gentleman further yield? to-day. lli. FINLEY. Certainly. The amendment that I have offered does that. Magazines, Mr. COX of Indiana. Was it not substantial1y the argument practically speaking, and periodicals also, to a large extent, of Mr. Wiley, who testified before our committee on behalf of are printed three and four weeks ahead of the date line. Now, the publishers, that the immense cost of transportation of sec­ is there anyone here who contend.s that it is impracticable to ond-class matter was due to the fact, or to one of the facts, ship carload lots by freight from the great publishing houses that the Government was giving them better facilities for trans­ of the counb·y over a great part of this country? And if Cali­ portation than they really needed? fornia is so far away that it is impracticable to ship to that Mr. FINLEY. There is no doubt about that. point, then the shipments would not be _made by the Post-Office Mr. COX of Indiana. Sending this h~vy stuff on fast trains, Department. So there is nothing in that contention. when if they send it on slower trains and mail routes, it would Mr. COX of Indiana. Mr. Chairman, the gentleman has been not cost so much? a member of this committee for a great many years and has Mr. FINLEY. Not only that, but, Mr. Chairman, there would given the subject very close attention. I want to get the gen­ be a fewer number of railroad post-office cars requirell. What tleman's opinion on this proposition : What does he say as is the necessity for filling a railway post-office car with maga­ to the postal laws now as to whether or not a publisher of zines or periodicals and shipping from New York or Boston or magazines has the right under the law, as the law now exists, Philadelphia to Chicago or St. Louis or New Orleans, or any­ to ship his magazines by freight, upon the same principle that where else? a man ships a carload of wheat? Has he,..got that right? The CHAIRMAl~. The time of the gentleman has expired. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2797

-l\lr. ALEXANDER of Missouri. Mr. Chairman, I ask that Mr. CLARK -0f Missouri. It is not more than 1,800 miles the gentleman have five minutes more. from St. Louis to any place in the country. The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? Mr. FASSETT. But ooo ·mnes is the limit of the short haul. There was no objection. Mr. FINLEY. The magazines, if all were published in St. Mr. AI.EXANDER of Missouri. These items of postal cards, Louis, would still have the same rates under the law that they stamped envelopes, newspaper wrappers, and empty mail bags have now, and still use the mails for the long haut I do not are all the property of the Government, are they not? think there is any question about that. On the short haul, l\fr. FINLEY. Oh, yes. whether sent by freight -or express, th"€ practice would be the Mr. ALEXANDER of fissouri. And the Government does same as at present. not send them by freight or express because the cost would be l\Ir. CLARK of Missouri. I understand that the Government less to send them by-- claims that it ls losing -0n the second-class mail matter. Mr. FINLEY. Three hundred and seventy-five thousand dol­ Mr. FINLEY. Yes. lars as to $3,000,000. Mr. CLARK of Missouri. If you reduce the length of the Mr. ALEXANDER -0f Missouri. Less than the second-class haul by one-fourth, one-third, -0r one-half, does it not reduce the rate they would be compelled to pay the railroads? expense that mueh? Mr. FINLEY. There is no second-class rate iin railway-mail Mr. FINLEY. There is no doubt about that. pay. Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Then St. Louis is the place to pub­ Mr. ALEXA1'1DER of Missouri. Now, if a m-an paid the lish them. second-class rate on his magazines -0r newspapers, if the Govern­ lli. MICHAEL E. DRISCOLL. Right there, in that connec­ ment had the election to send them by freight or express, would tion, I would like to ask the gentleman from South Carolina, or hs not in return expect the post.al facilities? anybody else on the committee, to answer this-- Mr. FI.r-.."'LEY. I do not think so, Mr. Chairman, any further Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that than this, provided the Government gave him a service that was debate on this amendment be closed at 10 minutes to 3. fair, that was practical and sufficient, the publisher could not, The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the and would not, complain. In fa.ct, as I understand it, many gentleman from Massa.ehusetts? The Chair hears none. of the publishers -0f magazines throughout the country have Mr. MICHAEL E. DRISCOLL. I would like to know if it no serious objection to this proposition, when in freightable lots bas been shown why packages can be sent ch~aper by express that the magazines be shipped from Boston, New York, Phila­ than through the mails? delphia, or the place of publication in the East to Chicago or Mr. FrNLEY. I will try to answer the gentleman~s question. elsewhere. There they might be, and would be, distributed Mr. MICHAEL E. DRISCOLL. Will the gentleman state through the mails. where the line of demareation comes in? Ir. ALEXANDER -0f Iissouri. Is it not .a fa.ct, :and does not Mr. FI1'.1LEY. On short hauls it is eheaper to send magazines the testimony before the committee show, that they send their and newspapers, for that matter, by express than through the magazines and their newspapers by freight or express at a mails. The postal rate is one rate for the whole country. The less rate than they can send them by mail? express companies operate on the zone principle-so much. Mr. FI.r-.."'LEY. For short hauls; yes. within a certain distance. Now, when you go beyond the zone Mr. ALEXANDER of Missouri. Would they not exercise this rate there is no profit in sending by express. Of course, then election rather than pay the rate required by the postal serv­ all that matter 1s dumped into the mails. ice, and then let the Government send these newspapers and Mr. MICHAEL El DRISCOLL. Wait a moment. You have magazines by freight? not answered the question. What is the zone in which it is Mr. FINLEY. By the long haul? eheaper to send by ·express than by mail? Mr. ALEXANDER of Missouri. By any haul. Mr. FINLEY. From 300 to 500 miles. Mr. FINLEY. No; not at alL For the long haul the pub­ Mr. MURDOCK. Will the gentleman permit me? lishers would not do it differently than they do now; that is, Mr. FINLEY. I am afraid I have not the time. where they ship at present short hauls by express or freight, :Mr. MURDOCK. We had testimony before the committee or in any way they see fit except to place the publications in which showed that magazines were sent by express to the mid­ the mall. As for long hauls, they invariably place their publica­ dle of Mis ouri, l,500 miles. tions in the mails and as a result the Government bears the Mr. FINLEY. There is a statement -0n page 33 of the Post­ burden. Wherever it is not profitable for the publish-er to ship master-General's report of the percentage of weight of second­ by express or freight, then they place their publications in the class matt'}r: mails, and this is done in all cases on long hauls. Scientific periodicals, 1.30; educational periodicals, '0.64; religious My amendment seeks to protect the Government in this matter periodicals, 5.91 ; trade-journal periodicals, 4.94 ~ agdcultural period­ where-ver practicable. I do not want to do anything imprac­ icals, 5; magazines. 20.23 ; miscellaneous periodicals, 6.25. ticable or that will affect the efficiency of the postal service, but Altogether this makes 44.27 per cent on this class of matter, everyone here knows that about the first ~eek in a month maga­ consisting of magazines and newspapers, and so forth. So that, zi.n€S and periodicals are published for the following month and added to the daily; newspapers, it makes altogether 84. 77 _per to a large extent the distribution begins, so it would not affect cent. The following table is interesting: the publishers in the slightest, nor would it affect the efficiency From the special weighings of 1906 and 1907 ·estimates have been of the postal service in the least to add this amendment to the made of the per cent of weight and the average hauls of each of the several subclasses named in the statute of 1906, subscribers' copies law now upon the statute books. and sample copies combined, with the following results: Mr. CLARK of Missouri. I would like to .ask the gentleman a question. Mr. FI!\1l1EY. Certainly. Class of periodical. Per cent <>f Av~rage Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Now, the cost to the Government weight. haul. . for transporting the mails depends on the length of the haul, does it not? Mil~s. Daily newspapers_ - __ ------~ ----• ------_____ --- ·4.0.50 291.~7 Mr. FINLEY. There is no question about that. WeeklY and other than dally newspapers------15.23 558.20 Mr. CLARK of Missouri. Has any information come to the Sclentitl.c perlodieaJs______1.30 903.84 gentleman from South Carolina individually or to the members Educational periodicals ______----______----______.64 733.75 Religious periodicals------·--·-·------5.91 682.50 of the Post-Office Committee that since this agitation began Trade-journal periodicals------.t.'94 BO:i.32 about this sec.ond-class matter .a movement is on foot to have Agricultural periodicals ______------______5.00 598.48 12 or 15 of the biggest magazines published in St. Louis, in the Magazines ___ --- __ --_. ___ ------____ ------20.23 1,048.67 heart of the continent, thereby reducing the haul of the maga- Miscellaneous periodicals------6.25 1,12.S.10 . zines from one-fourth to one-half and thereby reducing the gov­ ' ernment expense that much? Now, Mr. Chairman, if you can so amend the law th.at this : Mr. MURDOCK. And give all the business to the express class of mail wh-en in freightable lots may be shipped by freight, ' company? in no case to the detriment of the postal service, nor to the ! Mr. CLARK of Missouri What difference would that make, service to whieh the patrons of these publications are entitled, · if the Government is losing at the present rate? I should think you will save from ten to twelve million dollars a year in postal '. it would be glad to get rid of it. expenditures. 1 Mr. MURDOCK. It would still have to take the magazines Mr. COX of Indiana. I would like to have one m1nute ln ' on the long haul. answer to the gentleman from· New York, who propounded -a I Mr. CLARK of Missouri. There would be no long hauL very pertinent question. which it is difficult to answer. There Mr. MURDOCK. Oh., yes; there would. was no dispute upon the proposition that in cases within a 2798' CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. :MARCH 5, radius of 500 miles the express companies can and do haul be frank with the committee. ·On page 26 of the bill is a provi­ second-class mail matter at less than 1 cent a pound, which is sion that after June 30 next it shall be unlawful for the Post­ the post-office rate. Mr. Wilder, speaking for the magazines, Oip.ce pepartment to print or sell any stamped envelope bear­ fixed the zone at 620 miles. ing upon it a printed direction giving the name of any indi­ In the Postmaster-General's report the distance is stated at vidual, firm, or company. I anticipate that that prolision will 633 miles. The gentleman will find that the average haul for go out on a point of order. It feel confident of that, und I pro­ all second-class matter does not exceed 750 miles. So you can pose to offer in other parts of this bill this very same amend­ see that there is but little difference between all the gentlemen ment which limits the Government in sending, distributing, or in fixing the radius of the hauls for which the express com­ selling envelopes to those which have no printing upon them. panies charge less than the postage rates. The objection may be made that they ought to print a blank Mr. FASSETT. Mr. Chairman, I just want to call attention return, allowing the party who purchases the enveiope at the to one interesting fact. The third-class postal rate is 8 cents a post-office to write in the name and return address of the pur­ pound. That is for printed matter, such as books. The second­ chaser. class rate in the mail is 1 cent a pound, so that a magazine As it is now, Mr. Chairman, these envelopes are turned over will go for 1 cent a pound, and a eopy of the Bible or Shake­ and a monopoly of the printing given to one concern. When speare at 8 cents a pound. The express companies cut just printed the envelopes are transported froin the place where the under the postal rate of 8 cents on third-class matter, and by work is done and delivered over to the purchaser. If you will grouping second and third class matter together they get an do that for the countr_y newspaper, if you will transport the average rate of from 3~ to 5 cents a pound, and thus apparently stamped envelopes to them, and sell to them at cost, let them carry the second-class matter farther than the Government does do the printing of the blank returns, and allow the postmasters at a, cheaper rate. Right here is a state of facts which deserves to sell them, as you do this concern in Ohio, the printing will notice. be done at a price which the people will be perfectly willing Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I am going to make a point of to pay. order against the amendment offered by the gentleman from It has been argued on this floor that the Government makes South Carolina, on the ground that it is not germane to the some money out of the sale of these envelopes. I deny that subject, and that it is new legislation; but before doing so, I proposition. If you figure the cost of carrying them through want to say that the Post-Office Committee has been giving con­ the mail to their destination, and if you figure in the cost of siderable time to hearings on the subject introduced by the printing the envelope you will find that it is a loss to the Gov­ gentleman from South Carolina [Mr. FINLEY]. I am inclined ernment and that it is partially responsible for the deficit that to think that in some way, at some time, something will develop we have to-day. which will be beneficial to the department and the Government As I stated, wherever hereafter the words "stamped envel­ along that line; but it is in altogether too unfinished a condition opes" appear in this bill, with the exception of where they fol­ to legislate upon without further consideration by the Post-Office low in this paragraph, where they have no appropriation to Committee or the Committee of the Whole. For that reason I send them and therefore could not send them, I shall offer ari make the point of order against the amendment, and yield my amendment "without printing thereon; " so that the Govern­ remaining time to the gentleman from New Jersey [Mr. ment can neither manufacture nor sell any stamped envelopes GABDNER]. . with printing thereon. Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. Mr. Chairman, there is not Mr. SMITH of California. Will the gentleman yield for an a word in the paragraph to which this amendment is offered that interruption? is anything but directory to the department as to how it shall Mr. MURPHY. I will yield. transfer government property. The amendment that the gentle­ Mr. SMITH of California.· I suppose the gentleman is speak­ man seeks to inject is a requirement on the part of the postal ing in the interest of the printers. Does the gentleman thin.k authorities to do something with one class of mail matter after the printers would have any objection to the provision in the it has been deposited in the mails. form in which it is written on· page 26? The CHAIRMAN. The time for debate upon the amendment Mr. MURPHY. Let me say to the gentleman, when he gets to has expired by order of the committee. that part of the bill, I am satisfied that he will not be disap­ The Chair is ready to rule. pointed in seeing a gentleman rise to make a point of order The paragraph in question provides for the transportation of against it. post-office equipments and supplies, and is restricted to them. Mr. SMITH of California. I have had probably as many The Chair thinks that the amendment offered by the gentleman letters on this subject as any other · Member of the House, and from South Carolina is not germane, and therefore the Chair perhaps not so many as some others. I have had a large num­ sustains the point of order. ber from printers in my State because I am in the business, Mr. MURPHY. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amend­ and I suppose they assume that I have a fellow-feeling for them, ment. which I have. I have been conducting a printing office for The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Missouri offers an twenty-three and a half years, and a considerable and important amendment, which the Clerk will report. part of the small business out of which I make my bread and The Clerk read as follows : butter, when I am not a statesman, is job printing, and I have Page 20, line 11, after the word "envelopes," insert "without print­ never in the course of the twenty-three and a half years found ing thereon." a man in my zone of business who bought envelopes with the return card printed on them who would otherwise go to a local Mr. WEEKS. I make the point of order on that, that it is printing office and have them printed. The envelope bearing not germane to this paragraph. the return card is sold in very small lots out of the post-office The CHAIRMAN. The Chair will hear the gentleman from window. Of course, that does not carry the person's name. I Massachusetts on the point of order. The Chair understands never knew a person in my county who had the Government that the paragraph in the bill authorizes an appropriation for print his name in connection with the return card. the transportation of stamped envelopes. The amendment And during all this winter when I have had letters from the offered by the gentleman from Missouri seems to be descriptive. printing offices or newspapers doing a job-printing business on The Chair will be glad to hear the gentleman. the side, I have constantly asked them if they have found a Mr. WEEKS. I should like to have the amendment again customer in their respective communities who would be their reported by the Clerk. customer if it was not for the Government Printing Office The CHAIRMAN. If there be no objection, the amendment printing these return cards, and not one of them replied that will be again reported. such was the case. Of all the professional men, merchants, and The amendment was again read. all that class of people who have purchased stamped envelopes Mr. MANN. That will compel the carrying of all these including the return card, I have never known one· who patron­ stamped envelopes by mail instead of by freight or express. ized a local printing office instead of the Government. Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I should like to call the at­ Mr. MURPHY. Then, why do you not provide in this bill tention of the committee to the fact that if that amendment that the Government should furnish the uniforms to the postal should prevail it would probably require the carrying of these carriers? envelopes by mail instead of by express or by freight and would Mr. SMITH of California. I presume there is as little social­ be a very large additional cost to the Government. ism in my blood as in any man in the House. I do not justify The CHAIRMAN. The Chair overrules the point of order. the printing because it is socialistic, but it has become a part The question is upon the amendment offered by the gentleman of the business of the country, and it does aid the post-office from Missouri [Mr. MURPHY]. tremendously in saving the duties of the Dead Letter Office. Mr. MURPHY. Mr. Chairman, it has been suggested that While I favor the language on page 26 and think it goes far the effect of this amendment would be to send through the enough, I do not believe there is much foundation for the outcry mails all stamped envelopes with printing thereon. I want to against the present law. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2799

l\Ir. MURPHY. Is there any more reason why the Govern­ Mr. AffiRPHY. The gentleman is mistaken about that. It ment should print this private return card for the individual he will read on through the bill there, he will see that they must and for the firm and corporation or partnership than it should withdraw all stamped envelopes. It does not make any differ­ print their heads? ence whether there is printing on them or not. .Ur. SMITH of California. I do not think so, but this does .Mr. NORRIS. If I can get permission, I will have the save much labor for the Dead Letter Office. amendment which I propose to offer read. Why not let us get l\Ir. NORRIS. Mr. Chairman, I regret thnt my friend from a fair test of the House on the proposition upon an ameridment Missouri has offered this amendment·at thi.s place. I think it -that will absolutely prohibit·the printing of the name of an in­ does not accomplish what it is desired to accomplish. He wants dividual, firm, or corporation on a return card on a stamped en­ to prevent the Government from printing the name of the indi­ velope? In order that there may be no misunderstanding, and vidual, firm, or corporation, or box, or building, on the return in order that we may reach the question fairly and without card of a stamped envelope. If his amendment prevails, it will doing it indir'ectly, and, as I believe, ineffectually, I will send only prevent the Government from sending stamped envelopes to the Clerk's desk and have read for the information of the that have printing thereon by freight or exptess. It will not House the amendment that- I propose to offer in place of the prohibit their manufacture or their printing, and the result is proviso on page 26, the same being a part of the paragraph on that the Government will be able to do that just the same and the bottom of page 25, if the paragraph goes out on a point of send them by mail, with the result that the present deficit in order. the Post-Office Department will be greatly increased. The Clerk read as follows: I want to say further to my friend from Missouri that I do Add at the end of line 24, page 25, the following : not believe that it is desirable, and I understand the gentleman "Provided, That no part of said appropriation be used for the plly­ ment of the manufacture of stamped envelopes bearing thereon any does not desire, to .vrevent the Government from keeping on printed direction, giving the name of any individual, firm, or corpora­ hand at the different post-offices of the country stamped en­ tion or any number of any post-office box or drawer, or the name of velopes with the blank return printed on the upper left-hand any building, to whom or to which the same shall be returned, if un­ corner. called for or undelivered." . Now, then, if we do not want to pre•ent the department from Mr. NORRIS. Mr. Chairman, I submit to the gentleman from doing this, then we ought to permit the Government to send Missouri that if the amendment put in by the committee stays those kmd of stamped envelopes, with that blank printed on it, in, then, of course, I shall not offer the amendment which has by freight or express, as is most economical for the Government. just been read by the Clerk. If the gentleman's amendment On page 26 there is a committee amendment that I understand were adopted, it would not cure the evil we are seeking to is satisfactory to the gentleman from :Missouri [Mr. MURPHY], eradicate, but it would only prevent the Government from send­ and I think it is satisfactory to a large majority of the l\leru­ ing stamped envelopes by freight or express. They could still bers of the House, which has been put into the bill by the com­ print the name of a person or firm on the return card on them mittee itself, the effect of which will be to prevent the Govern­ and send them by mail under frank, and thus cost the Govern­ ment after the expiration of the present contract from printing ment an increased price for delivery, while getting no more the name of a :firm, individual, or corporation upon a return for the product. The only effect, therefore, would be to increase card on a stamped envelope. It is true that is subject to a the deficit in the Post-Office Department. point of order, as the gentleman has said. I gave notice the If the gentleman's amendment goes out and my amendment other day that if that went out on a point of order I would offer is offered and adopted, it will certainly meet the question as far an .amendment that would have the same effect, as far as the as it can be met under an appropriation bill. coming fiscal year is concerned, which would not be subject to The CHA.IRMA...~. The time of the gentleman has again ex­ a point of order, and there can be no question but that such an pired. amendment can be drawn, and if I get rec~onition I intend to Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I ask for a vote. offer it; so that we will reach the point there, and not interfere The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered with the operations of the department in a particular line that, by the gentleman from Missouri [Mr. l\IUR'PHY]. as I understand it, nobody desires to interfere with. The question was taken, and the amendment was rejected. Mr. MURPHY. If I follow this amendment with one on page The Clerk read as follows: 25, in line 23, by inserting after the word " envelopes " the words For railway post-office car service, $5,047,000. "without printing thereon," does not the gentleman think that Mr. BATES. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last will accomplish the object? word in line 25, page 20. Mr. NORRIS. No. On page 25, line 23, if you insert after I desire to send to the Clerk's desk, and ask to have read the word " envelopes '' the words " without printing thereon " it in my time, a letter which I have received to-day from Mr. would prohibit the Government from keeping on sale a stamped Underwood, president of the Erie Railroad Company, in regard envelope with a blank return card printed on that envelope. to railway-mail pay. Mr. MURPHY. Oh, no; it would not. Before it is read I desire to say that I submit the letter for Mr. NORRIS. Yes; indeed it would; it could not have any the information of the committee without any comment on my printing. The Government would not be permitted to have on own part. I do not of my own knowledge know whether the sale a stamped envelope with a blank return card printed extraordinary statements that have been coming in to Members thereon. of this House during the past month, stating, for instance, iliat l\Ir. MURPHY. They could not manufacture them. the Government is paying the railroads three and four times Mr. NORRIS. If we took that course, then we would be as much in proportion for carrying the mails as do the express liable to one of the objections that the Post-Office Department companies, is true or not, but I do not believe that all sides are has made against us for opposing the printing of a name on entitled to a fair hearing and fair consideration; and, therefore; the return-card envelope. That objection has been made againlilt as this letter contains matters of interest I submit it for the our proposition, but, in my judgment, it has no legality and no information of the committee. If the railroads are not re­ reason for its foundation as far as applied to our objection to ceiving adequate pay they certainly should receive it. If any printing the name on a return-card envelope; but if the gentle­ road is receiving an undue rate it should be Teduced. I do be­ man's amendment were put in at. the place the gentleman sug­ lieve, however, that the railroads perform a difficult and impor­ gests, line 2-3, page 25, then it would be impossible for an indi­ tant serviee and are entitled to fair treatment and considera­ vidual to go into the post-office and buy a stamped envelope tion. with a blank place left to write in his name. The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, it will be read in the Mr. FINLEY. Is it not true that if the amendment of the gentleman's time. gentleman from l\Iissouri [Mr. MURPHY] prevails, the Govern­ The Clerk read as follows: ment may continue to print envelopes with return cards thereon, ERIE RAILROAD COMPANY, and send them through the mail and not ship them by express? OFFICE OF THE PRESIDENT, Mr. NORRIS. Certainly they can. There will not be any Februa1·11 28, 1910._ Hon. ARTHUR L. BATES, question about that. Representative from Pennsylvania, [The time of Mr. Nomns having expired, by unanimous con­ House of Representatives, Washington, D. 0. sent he was granted two minutes more.] DEAR Sm: We desire to call your attention to some inconsistencies in l\Ir. MURPHY. l\fr. Chairman, I think the gentleman is mis­ the matter of railway-mail pay, which we trust the pTesent Congress will remedy by passing a law which will fairly compensate railroads for taken about that, that they would have to send them through service rendered the United States Government in handling the mails. . the mail. The present system of paying railroads for handling United States l\ir. NORRIS .• Surely they would. They could not send mails was adopted in 1873, and since that date reductions in .compeasa­ tion have been made as follows : them by express or freight, but could sena them by mail, and .July 12, 1876, 10 per cent general reduction. thus increase the deficit. -.Tune 30, 1878, o per cent general reduction. 2800 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MARCH 5,

March 2, 1907, 5 per cent reduction, weights 5,000 to 48,000 pounds dally. ever, to dedicate considerable space to that function. If they, March 2, 1907, 10 per cent reduction, weights over 48,000 pounds are being properly compensated for carrying the mails by daily. weight and under those conditions compelling them to allot March 2, 1907, 16.66 per cent full postal-car pay. June 7, 1907, 9.65 per cent general reduction by Postmaster-General's a certain amount of space, does it not necessarily follow that orders No. 165 and No. 412 (not authorized by Congress). the other railroads, which receive this additional compensation Representative Overstreet's table in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD, of rental in addition to the compensation they receive for March 2, 1908, page 2871, showed reductions for 1907 amounting to a total of $8,101,433.61 per annum, equal to 16 per cent of the total ap­ weight, are in all probability receiving too much, a matter about propriation for railroad transportation and railway post-office cars for which, of course, I do not know and do not express any opinion? the following year. Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, the chairman of the Post­ The Post-Office Department has during the past two years reduced the authorization for space payment in foll postal-car service, notwith­ Office Committee does not know what a correct answer to that standing the fact that in many instances the larger cars were requested question is. But it is bis opinion that those short-line rail­ by the department anct constructed strictly in accordance with their roads-at least some of them-are receiving less than the specifications and in the face of no diminution in the quantity of mall handled nor in the number of separations made of the malls. service is worth. At the same time, the gentleman from New These reductions in railway mail pay have resulted in great injustice Jersey [l\Ir. HUGHES] should remember that the Erie Railroad to the railroad companies and have made the handling of United States quite likely runs trains with railway post-office cars on them, mail unremunerative to the railways, it being, above all other traffic, the most exacting, troublesome, and costly to transport. and in that way it may make up what it may lose on its short To partly correct the injustice that exists through certain acts of branches. The New Haven Railroad, which receives something Congress and post-office departmental orders, we hereby ask your sup­ like $650,000 a year from the Government, and which has a port of a measure which provides for a readjustment of the rate of pay for full postal-car service, and includes a reasonable car-mileage rate large number of short branches where compartment cars are for the use of mail compartments of different lengths provided for the used, and railway post-office cars are never used, is making the distribution of mails en route. contention that it loses about $350,000 a 3ear in transporting No car-mileage pay is allowed :for the use of mail compartments, ex­ cept where a full car is used for distributing purposes, and the weight the mails, and it is threatening now-it is carrying the mails of mails carried in these 15, 20, 25, and 30 foot mail compartments is under protest-to bring suit against the Government fo~ so small that it frequently results that railroad companies receive as $350,000, which it claims it loses annually in conducting that compensation an amount only equivalent to the passenger fare of the postal clerks, leaving the companies to handle the mail at stations, service. transport it, and furnish a separate compartment in the train for its Of the space furnished by railroads about one-half iE! railway, distribution for no compensation whatever. post-office cars. The other part is made up of apartment cars. The justice of paying for space used for distributing purposes was acknowledged by act of Congress allowing car-mileage pay where the No railroa.d receives anything for less space than 40 feet in a full car is made use of for postal purposes. In equity a pro rata car. allowance to the railways should be made where a part of the car is Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. Now, Mr. Chairman, I want used for distributing purposes. The use of this apartment by the Po t-Office Department necessitates in many instances hauling an addi­ to state this, in order to make the proposition as clear as I can: tional car, thereby increa ing the costs to the railways to an amount The Erie Railroad on its main line operates between New Jersey more than the revenue received for performing the mail service. and Chicago; at any rate, that is as far as I have ever gone on There are other matters of importance worthy of your consideration in our opinion, viz : . ' the Erie Railroad. It operates five other branches. I haye no Railroad companies nre required to handle mail between trains and doubt that any one of these other branches will carry more intermediate post-offices located within 80 rods of railroad stations. At passengers and in all probability more mail than the main line, terminals they are required to transport mail between trains and the post-office regardless of the distance. This condition creates expendi­ and I do not think it is possible-at least, I think it is highly tures that are equal to the total revenue from the service. In fairness, improbable that it would be possible-for the Erie Railroad to the Government should provide for this service. make up on the main line on the mail that is hauled for any, The method of adjusting the rate of pay for transporting mails on the basis of weights taken once in four years is unjust, as it requires great deficiency on these branch lines; so that it seems to me every carrier to transport the always increasing weights without just it is the duty of the Post-Office Committee to determine as compensation for four years. The weighing of mails should take place nearly as possible-and it must be possible-whether or not a annually, with a proper readjustment of pay. We ask that you give the foregoing matters your careful considera­ railroad, such as the Erie Railroad, is sufficiently and ade­ tion. Any further information relating to the question of railway quately compensated for the work it does on these branch lines~ mail pay or service will be given you upon request, or our mail repre­ If the railroad which does not have business enough to justify, sentative will call and personally explain to you anything connected with the subject. mail cars is being fairly compensated, then there is no question Your influence in correcting these matters Is also asked on the in the world but that the lines which are enabled to keep mail ground of justice to a taxpayer. The taxes paid by the Erie Railroad cars and receive rentals for them are being largely overpaid. Company during the past year amounted to ~1,369,523, an increase of 56 per cent since 1898. If that is not true, then it necessarily follows that these lines Your attention is respectfully called to the attached exhibit, showing are being underpaid, and I do not care which of these proposi­ the relative prices of commodities and labor, and of railway passenger, tions is true, because I believe that if it is demonstrated that freight, and mail receipts per ton-mile, from 1898 to 1908 ; showing that prices of commodities increased from 100 per cent to 138 per cent the railroads are being underpaid, that they should be properly in 1907 ; the price of railway labor per day increased from 100 per cent paid, and if overpaid their pay should be reduced. And if it to 130 per cent in 1908; the receipts per passenger mile decreased from is demonstrated that some are being overpaid and some under­ 100 per cent to 98 per cent; and that railway mail pay per ton-mile de­ creased from 100 per cent to 79 per cent in 1908. paid, then something should be undertaken to equalize the rate Yours, very truly, of pay. F. D. UNDERWOOD, President. Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I am in perfect harmony with Mr . HUGHES of New Jersey and l\Ir. GARRETT rose. the expression made by the gentleman from New Jersey. We The CHAIRl\IAN. The Chair will recognize the gentleman have just within an hour made an appropriation of $10,000 for from New Jersey [l\Ir. HUGHES] . the tabulation of certain statistics which I believe will give to l\Ir. HUGHES of New Jersey. l\Ir. Chairman, I rise for the the Post-Office Committee information which will enable it to purpose of asking the chairman of the committee a question come to a reasonable conclusion in regard to this question. having a direct bearing upon this other proposition that has Mr. GARRETr. l\Ir. Chairman, I offer the following amend- been raised so often during the consideration of the bill by the ment. committee, as to whether or not the railroads are getting more The Clerk read as follows: than they should be getting for carrying the mails. This view Page 20, after the word " dollars," in line 25, insert: of the matter has occurred to me several times, .and I want to "Provided, That no part of this amount shall be paid for rent or use offer it.as a suggestion to the chairman of the committee. The of any car which is not sound in material and construction." Erie Railroad, a letter from the president of which has just l\Ir. GARRETT. l\Ir. Chairman, I certainly do not wish to trY, been read, operates a number of branches throughout my dis­ the patience of the chairman of the Post-Office Committee- trict. One of those branches I am very familiar with. It is . Mr. WEEKS: You can not do it. known as the "New York and Greenwood Lake Branch," run­ 1\1r. GARRETT (continuing). Or the Committee of th'e Whole, ning from Jersey City up into the mountains to Greenwood but I really feel very deeply upon this subject of having sound Lake, a distance of perhaps 40 or 45 miles. cars in which the railway mail clerks do business. Now, it may, Now, the conditions on that railroad are such that they never be that I feel more deeply than I have in the past, becau e of a carry enough mail to induce them or to compel them to operate a heartrending scene witnessed of two dead and mangled mail mail car, aRd on many of the other branches of the Erie Rail­ clerks drawn from a car which had been in use twenty years road running throughout the northern section of New Jersey and which was crushed in a wreck-two young men that ! 1 the same situation prevails. Now, this is t}J.e point I want to knew well and that I liked well. I wish to reiterate what I make: They receive no rental for the compartment cars. They said here a few moments ago- receive nothing, as I understand it, for that portion of the car Mr. COOPER of Wisconsin. Does the gentleman say that that they dedicate for the handling of the mails. They are the car bad been .in use for twenty years? paid by weight, regardless of how little space it would take 1\fr. GARRETT . That is my understanding. for handling the mail; and I know by personal experience it Mr. MANN. The gentleman remembers that be opposed actually requires Yery little space. They are compelled, how- replacing revenue cutters that had been in use forty-five yturs? 1910. CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD-HOUSE. ·2801

Mr. GARRETT. But the revenue cutters were not run by tion of the subject of government ownership of railway post-office cars postal clerks. ha.s been made by the department. However, some years ago some in­ formation was secured by the General Superintendent of the Railway · Mr. MANN. But there were sailors on them who might lose Mail Service, which is set forth in his testimony before the Postal their lives. Commission in Part 2, at page 679 of the volume entitled "Railway Mr. GARRETT. That proposition was an entirely different Mall Pay; Testimony Taken by tne1 Commission to Investigate tbe Postal Service." No action has been taken by the department con­ proposition from this. templating the ownership by the Government of such cars. Mr. MANN. Of course. Yours, v:er;y truly, Mr. GARRETT. We paid nobody for the use of the revenue F. H. HITCHCOCK, Posttnaster-GeneraZ. cutters. However, I am not going into that. and the gentleman Mr. SHARP. Mr. Chairman, I am very well aware that the from Illinois knows quite well that there is a very decided differ­ subject of 'the Government owning its own postal cars is quite ence in the two propositions. If he does not, the people do, and an old one. There is nothing new in it. I claim no originality so it is no matter whether he knows or not. I shall reiterate in its revival by the introduction of the following resolution what I said a while ago. In the section in which I live within which I introduced in Congress a number of weeks ago bearing the last year there have occurred three wrecks. upon this subject and asking the Postmaster-General for cer­ In one of them the postal car was crushed and the car, ac­ tain information in reference thereto; but it is because it is cording to my information, had been in use for twenty years, an old subject, and because it was recommended by a distin­ and the clerks were killed. On another road, in the same sec­ guished Postmaster-General, the Hon. William F . Vilas, nearly tion, another wreck occurred, and I have been informed that the twenty-five years ago in the strongest terms that I now wish car had been in use for twenty years. I am told that there to bring it up for consideration or discussion, at least, at this is hanging in the office of the railway-mail clerks, in the city of time. Memphis, a plank taken from that crushed car which is rotten, House resolution 295. and the defects of which were covered up by paint. Within the Whereas, according to the recent annual report of the Postmas~er­ last six weeks, on another road in the same section, another General, there was incurred an expenditure of about $4,700,000 durmg wreck occurred in which four postal clerks were seriously in­ the past fiscal year for the use of railway post-office cars, constituting one of the chief burdens in maintaining that service; and jured; and the car had been in use for twenty years_and was Whereas it is believed, from results obtained from a similar policy practically worthless. I do not believe that the Government adopted by private shippers and carriers, that the Government C01;Jld ought to pay rent, and I do not believe it ought to permit its greaty profit by owning its own mail cars, the annual rental of which in some years has approximated the value of .tbe cars,. thereby also servants to go into such cars to work; and they ought not to adding to the comfort and safety of a large number of .high-grade em­ pay rent for any car that is unsound in material or construction. ployees who, from the nature of their employment, are necessarily Mr. WEEKS. This question has been considered by the Com­ exposed to unusual danger : Therefore be it Resoii;ed, That the PostmasteitG~neral be respectfully reque~ted. to mittee of the Whole within an hour, and the amendment of the submit to the House of Representatives the result of any investigation gentleman from Tennessee was voted down. Ninety per cent that may have been made by his department regarding ownership by the of the cars now in use have been built within ten years, and the Government of post-office cars, and report what action, if any, has been proportion, if there are any cars not suitable for service, is very taken contemplating the same. small. But as the gentleman feels so strongly on this question, In answer to this resolution and for the promise of reporting believing it does not make any reflection upon the department, the same out to the House, I wish to thank the genial chair­ disavowing any suggestion that the department is allowing cars man of the committee [l\Ir. WEEKS9. The Postmaster-General, to be operated of the description the gentleman suggests, I will as appears in his reply above quoted, briefly referred· to an in­ not vote against the amendment offered by the gentleman from >estigation by a commission appointed about ten or a dozen Tennessee. years ago on the subject of government ownership of postal Mr. NICHOLLS. Mr. Chairman, I desire to amend the railway cars. Upon following that line of information a little amendment by inserting the word " sanitary " before the word further and finding out just what testimony was there adduced, "sound." I was surprised to find that what seems to be a very important The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Pennsylvania offers subject was dismissed at that time with little or no discussion an amendment to the amendment, which the Clerk will report. by the commission and by Mr. James E. White, General Superin­ The Clerk read as follows : tendent of Railway Mail Service, in a very few lines. But I was Before the word "sound" insert the word "sanitary." impressed by the fact that that testimony, in so far as it re­ lated to expense of maintaining the postal cars, thoroughly Mr. NICHOLLS. Mr. Chairman, according to what I have corroborated the estimates of Postmaster-General Vilas made read regarding this subject, I believe there is need of more care­ nearly twenty-five years ago. ful attention being given both to the matter of sanitation in Mr. White, in his testimony before that commission, gtrns the these cars and to the matter of having sound cars in use. I following figures as to the cost of maintaining these postal cars: read testimony to the effect that some of the railroads are in­ Lighting, $275; heating, $3£5; cleaning, water, and ice, and so stalling steel cars that are entirely satisfactory to the men who forth, $365; repairs, $350; life of car, fifteen years; value of have to work in them, and that other companies have not fur­ car being estimated at $6,000, or $400 per annum. These items nished those cars, and that as the train passes along at a high all have reference to annual charges. The total only makes a rate of speed sewage has been blown up into the drinking tanks. figure of $1,756, which may be charged up against the expense For that reason this amendment should be adopted. of owning, maintaining, and operating these cars and refund­ The amendment to the amendment was agreed to. ing back at the end of fifteen years, the supposed life period of The amendment as amended was agreed to. a car, all that it originally cost. I have been interested during Mr. SHARP. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last the last few days in the arguments advanced by the Postmaster­ word. I notice, commencing in line 5, on page 20; there is a General's department to the effect that we ought to have a new provision appropriating $10,000 for tabulating and arranging additional post-office in the city of Washington, estimated to certain information relative to the operation, receipts, and so cost something like $3,000,000. In advocating this a distin­ forth, of railroads carrying the mails. I should like to ask guished Senator at the other end of the Capitol has used the whether that contemplates the procuring of information rela­ argument that we could issue bonds, which would not be a tive to the cost of operating these cars in carrying the mails charge on the Government of more than 2i or 3 per cent per and to the rental of postal cars? annum and would save to the Government about 15 per cent Mr. WEEKS. I understand that it does. per annum on the amount involved, which we now pay for the Mr. SHARP. I should like to ask further whether there has rental of outside buildings for the use of this department. been any testimony adduced before your committee on the sub­ Now, it seems to me, Mr. Chairman, if it is good to economize ject of the Government owning its own postal cars? in that particular line of the Post-Office Department, it is Mr. WEEKS. That question was asked of the Postmaster­ equally wise to give a very thorough investigation to this Generul, and he sent the following reply: . matter of the government ownership of the railway postal cars. OFFICE OF THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL, Washington, D. 0., February 3, 1910. Here is what Postmaster:;General Vilas reported upon this Hon. JOHN W. WEEKS, subject in the year 1887, and it would seem to me that his argu­ Chairman Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads, ments are as applicable to the present conditions as to those · House of Representatives. with which he had to deal during his administration o! the MY DEAR Sm: Your letter of the 21st ultimo, transmitting a copy of House resolution 295, introduced by Mr. SHARP, requesting the Post-Office Department : Postmaster-General to submit to the House of Representatives the Among the possibly desirable amendments of present methods there result cf anv investigation that may have been made by his department appears to be one step of great advantage to the Government, one pre­ regarding oWI1ership by the Government of post-office cars, and report paratory to any more radical change, which may be immediately taken what action, if any, has been taken contemplating such ownership, and without the least injustice to the roads. I append a table (Appendix requesting that I give tbe matter early consideration, has been received. D) showing all the lines of railway on which separate postal cars wert

XLV-176 2802 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MARCH 5,

lengths, number of trips, annual mileage, number o! cars ln use and In I very much hope that the Post-Office Department, in gath­ reserve for contingencies, the si.ze of such cars, average weight of mall, annual. transportation pay, annual post-office-car pay, and total com­ ering the statistics to which the chairman refers and tabulating pensation; and tile whole recapitulated in a summary exhibit. Careful the same, will not lose sight of what seems to be another im­ inquiry discloses that very many of these cars, such as they are, would portant phase of this question and which may shed not a little not cost to build $3,000 each: that the best 50-foot cars can be built for 4,000 to $4,500 each, a new 60-foot car equal to the most complete light upon the advantages of government-owned cars. I refer and handsome now in the service for not over $4,600 ; and that taking to the practice long in use by many large private business con­ together all the post-office cars in the United States, their average value cerns of owning their own transportation cars. These com­ does not. probably exceed $3,500 ; certainly not much more. Pursumg the inquiry into the cost of cleaning, heating, lighting, sup­ panies .transport many different kinds of commodities, ranging plies of oil, ice, dusters, scrub brushes, soap, lamp fixtures, pails, and from oil and chemicals to food products, and it would seem to other minor articles of daily use, embracing all necessary labor, and me that the policy which has evidently been demonstrated as including ordinary repairs, it appears that $60 per month for each car in use is an ample provision. The appended table shows that all the the most economical system of transportation by these success­ • post-office cars in the service of the department number 432, of which ful companies could be well tried by our Government in trans­ but 342 are in ordinary use and 90 are in reserve on dill'erent lines for porting its mails. contingencies. It is within bounds to affirm that all these might be to-day purchased or their duplicates manufactured for $1,600,000 ; add So, Mr. Chairman, in conclusion let me say, without the for cleaning, etc., as above, at $720 per year each for 342 in use, slightest reflection upon this .very able Post-Office Committee, $246,240, the total is reached o.f but $1.,846,240. Yet simply for the all use of these cars for the last year, incluaing cleaning, etc., the depart­ that has gone so thoroughly and carefully into the many ment was under the annual rate of charge by the existing system of and varied questions involved in this bill, that it seems to me $1,881,580. and the estimate deemed necessary to submit in prudent the Post-Office Department in years past has at lea.st shown a provision for the coming fisc.al year, on the same basis, is $2,000,000. lack of concern in not having given a far more thoroucrh ex­ • • • • • • • amination of the merits of a question of such impor~ce in Instead, then, of appropriating $2,000,000 to rent the use of these the ecenomical administration of its affairs. cars for the coming year, why should not the appropriation be of a smaller sum to buy them, and of another, say $250,000, for their keep­ Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I have a letter in my hand from ing, the two together not aggregating the proposed rent? The depart­ the Postmaster-General relating to the cost of the railway post­ ment will thereafter gain at least $1,500,000 per year while sustaining office cars, which I would like to have printed in the RECORD. the cost of casualties. • • • • • • • The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection to the request of the It can not be objected that the department is unable properly to as­ gentlen:m.n from Massachusetts? sume the charge of these cars. The department can easily discharge . There wa.s no objection. these functions. It might receive the custody of all the cars in the service and thenceforward care for them on a month's notice. With The letter is as follows : moderate addition to its force, the railway mail office can provide for O FFICE OF THE POSTMASTER-GENERAL, the manu1'acture of all necessary. Whatever may be done by any pri­ Washingto-n, D. 0., March. f, 1910. vate hands may as well be done by the department. Hon. JOHN W. WEEKS, Ownership by the Government of its postal cars can not but much relieve the difficulties of the compensation problem. So far as they Ohairman Oommittee on the Post-Otflce and Post-Roads, are concerned, their transportation may be compensated, doubtless, by House of Representatives. the payment of a just price per mile for the distance each car is run, MY DEA"R Sm: In response to your inquiry made of the Second Assist­ upon a scale not difficult to arrive at fairly, to be accompanied with ant Postmaster-General in regard to the cost of maintaining and oper­ simple provisions for the protection of the mutual rights of the Gov­ ating railway post-office cars and its relation to the compensation re­ ernment and the transporting• companies. The advantages and con­ ceived by railroad companies for the same and your reference to the venience of such a system will find many strengthening arguments speech delivered by Senator Vllas on the subject in the United States which are not now enlarged upon. Provisionally, the continuance of Senate, February 13, 1895, I have the honor to advise you as follows: the present rate of payment would be more than just, as has been The department has not at thi.s time sufficient information upon this point to give from its own records a reliable estimate. As you are demonstrated. aware, we have recently asked railroad companies to submit answers to Of course the Government Railway Mail Service has greatly inquiries with reference to the cost of operating the mail service, and it is believed that when these shall have been received we will be in a po­ increased since Mr. Vilas's report, the number of postal cars s1tion to furnish such information. Inasmuch, however, as it may be having substantially doubled during the twelve yea.rs preceding of importance to you to have estimates made from time to time by the time at which the commission abo-ve quoted made its report. others and such incomplete information as we have at present, I submit the following: Since the latter date there has been a further similar increase The cost of operating a railway post-office car has been variously esti­ in the number of such cars until there are at the present time mated (but not officially by the department) as from 15 to 30 cents a car something over 1,100 of them in active use and more than 100 mile. The average run per day of such a car is about 300 miles. Esti­ mating the cost at 18 cents a car mile, the total cost of operating such kept in reserve. Then, too, the cost for the construction of the car for one year would be $19,710. more modern mail cars would be much in excess of the amount The specific items which constitute this total cost are not definitely if known to the department. However as to the cost of lighting, clean­ estimated by Mr. Vilas. But the size of these figures has ing, repairs, etc. the General Superintendent of Railway Mail Service been greatly increased since that time, so, too, has been the furnished the fo1 lowing estimates before the commission to investigate compensation paid to the railroads for the rental of railway the postal service in 1899, viz: Lighting, $276 ; beating, $365 ; clean­ ing, water, ice, oil, etc., $365 ; repairs, $350 ; proportion of original post-office cars, rendered necessary by the tremendous growth cost of car (estimating the life of a car at fifteen years and the original of the mail business in recent yea.rs. The amount of appropria­ cost at 6,0-00), $400; total, $1,756. Recent inquiry gives the follow­ tion for this purpose called for in the section just read is about ing as the approximate cost of maintaining a car at the present time: Lighting (electric), $444 ; heating, $150; cleaning. 360 ; repairs, $300; three times the total annual rental paid in those years back in oil and brasses, $120; interest on cost of car (at 7,500), $300; annual Mr. Vilas's regime. In other words, the annual rental at the deterioration (estlmatin~ the life of a car at twenty years), $375 i total, rate asked for in this bill would certainly amount to enough $2,049. These figures give the cost of a car built accordin"' to t:be de.: partment's standard specifications. The cost of modern stee1 cars being at the end of two years to buy outright, at a fair price, all the built by some of the railroad companies is from 14,000 to $15,000. mail cars now in use, in addition to lighting, heating, and The compensation received by a raih·oad company for operating a properly maintaining them. car nnd carrying the malls in it would be approximately as follows: The pay for a 60-foot car at $40 a track mile per annum, for a track I listened with much interest to the gentleman from Ten­ mlleage of 150 miles, would be $6,000. Tbe a verage load of a 60-foot nessee [Mr. GARBETT] in reference t;o his proposed amendment car, according to statistics obtained recently, ls 2. 3 tons. The rate to compel the railroads to furnish safe and first-class mail cars. per ton of an average daily weight of 50,000 pounds carried over the route is $25.06. At this rate the company would receive $10,637.97 I do not think that he overdrew the arguments in favor of safe­ per annum for the average load of mail hauled in the car. This sum guarding the lives and pro'viding for the comfort of that great added to the specific rate for the railway post-office car ( 6,000), makes army of faithful public ser;ants, the railway mail clerks. the total pay for the car and its average load 16,637.97 per annum. Senator Vilas's argument was based upon the theo1·y that the rates It is a well-known fact that few kinds of employment are fixed for railroad transportation alone, based on the weights of the more hazardous, and the long list of the names of dead and mails carried. are adequate compensation for all services rendered, in­ seriously crippled men engaged in that service testifies to the cluding the operation of railway post-office cars, and that, therefore, the railroad companies would be required to Op€rate postal cars owned risks encountered. Indeed, the yery zeal of the Government to by the Post-Office Department for the compen ation allowed by law transport mail with the highest speed. and the competitive tests for the weight of malls alone, including apartment-car space and facili· demanded of the railroads only increase the hazard assumed by ties. Such theory ls not justified by the facts, as will appear from the following: these faithful public employees; and, together with the brave A careful perusal of the debates in both Houses of Congress which fireman and engineer at the throttle of their engine, in case of led to the enactment of the present law fixing the rate of pay for rail­ accident the brunt of the peril is thrown upon them. Not too road transportation of the mails and for railway po t--0ffice cars clearly indicates that the additional compensation for railway post-office cars generously paid at best at a time when their salaries have but was intended to cover the additional expense imposed upon the railroad two-thirds of the purchasing value of years past, too much care comRanies for building, maintaining, and hauling such cars. The com- and concern for the safety and comfort of this class of men to f:":v:rin~t p~-~~s~ JfJ1~~~d c:Ji'!:J at~~:u~~!tiieb~g~a.W:~~ f{:£t{~~-~ can not be manifested by our Government. I refer some of fore the amount of pay, based on wei~ht, did not compensate them for these facts because I can not but feel that if the Government their op€ration. This led to the specific appropriation for railway post­ should now commence to adopt the policy of building each year office cars. In this connection it should be borne in mind that the pur­ pose of the railway post-office car is to furnish ample space and facili­ a certain number of its own postal railway cars, better care in ties for the handling and distribution of mails en route. Therefore the their construction, both with reference to safety as well as space required is much greater than would be required for merely haul­ comfort, convenience, and sanitation, would result. ing the same weight of mails. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.· 2803

In regard to any proposal for government ownership of postal cars, the paragraph covering page 21 and occupying 25 lines. It is, other facts as well as the above should be given consideration. Such cars must be overhauled, cleaned, and inspected dally. It would be to my mind, an expression of the highest industrial develop­ necessary to either arrange with the railway companies for this serv­ ment in the world. It represents the Railway Mail Service. ice or for the department to employ its own inspectors, repair men, and A man in the Railway Mall Service is the finest skilled work­ car cleaners at a large number of places throughout the country, which would probably be more expensive than the cost to the railway com- man in the world, in my opinion. The whole service in the anles in that respect at present. It would hardly be feasible to estab­ United States has attained an average of efficiency of 98.65 per Eish a government repair shop. Therefore the department would be cent. Each man in the Railway Mail Service is not only a compelled to use the shops of the several railway companies throughout the country. Without the closest supervision and attention of the Gov­ workman of skill, but he is also a student. He is regularly ernment's inspectors it could scarcely be expected that our cars would put through a most rigorous examination. He must not onJy receive the same consideration in railroad shops as those owned by the know the stations in. the States, the 60,000 post-offices in the railway companies. These shops are frequently congested, and lt ls probable that the railroad work would be given the preference. United States, but he must keep himself constantly informed Yours, very truly, · as to all the changes of schedules of trains. There are men run­ FRANK H. HITCHCOCK, ning between Syracuse and Cleveland who know whether to Postmaster-General. throw a letter directed to a town in central California north Mr. HAYES. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last or south to obtain for it the quickest dispatch across the word, in order to ask the gentleman from Massachusetts a country. question or two. I want to ask him in regard to the cost or There are men running from New York to Washington on the earning power of these cars. All the matter that has been dis­ railway postal cars who know more abo_ut the post-offices of cussed here is quite confusing to me. I would like to know North and South Carolina than do the Members of this House what a car running from New York to Chicago, for instance, who hail from those States. There are men running from New earns per mile-the gross earnings. · York to Pittsburg who know more about Kansas and the towns in Mr. WEEKS. I think that information is included in the it and the counties in which they are situated and the way they letter I have just sent to the Clerk's desk. are reached by the mail trains than do the men who represent Mr. GARDNER of Michigan. It is $40 per mile. the State of Kansas in this body. This is the finest service in Mr. HAYES. I mean including the charge of the railroad the world. It is at the very tiptop of the whole industrial or­ company. ganization of the United States. Other branches of the postal ·Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. On a car carrying 5,000 service halt at some time in the day. This service goes on pounds it would be about $280. continuously. There are men in it who work for thirty continu­ l\Ir. HAYES. Running from New York to Chicago? ous hours. Mr. GARDNER of Michigan. From New York to Chicago Mr. MANN. The gentleman means they are on service for and back. that length of time. Mr. HAYES. And how many mail clerks? Mr. MURDOCK. They are on service for thirty continuous Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. Six. hours. Strike down for one day the Railway _Mail Service and Mr. HAYES. What is the fare of the passenger from New the whole postal system would fall. Strike it down for a single York to Chicago? twelve hours and the commerce of the United States would halt. Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. Eighteen dollars, I think; The men in this service are skilled nof only in hand, but in about that. . mind. Now, for the first time in the history of this Govern­ Mr. HA.YES. So that seven passengers in the passenger car ment, in the section of the bill following the one under consid·· immediately in the rear of the mail car would return to the eration, an attempt is to be made by the committee to give those railroad company about as much money as they get for carrying men an expense allowance of 75 cents a day when they have the mail car. been out twelve hours in the service. [Applause.] That plan Mr. GARDI\TER of New Jersey. The pay of that car is $40 is reported unanimously by the committee. The proposition per mile per annum. Now, if that car could run from New may have a point of order made against it. I sincerely hope, York to Chicago and back every day in the year the car would and more deeply than I have ever hoped on any single item I earn $40,000. If you assume that one car could travel from have ever had anything to do with in this House, that not a New York to Chicago and back again three hundred and sixty­ single man in this House will raise his voice against the propo­ five days in the year it would earn $40,000; .that is, $40,000 per sition. [Applause.] year for 1,000 miles of track. This Government has a corps of the most skillful men in the Mr. HAYES. I want to get some basis, so that we can com­ world. There has never been an army_ or a navy or a com­ pare other similar service. mercial organization of 16,000 men which has exhibited the Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. That is in an alleged speech efficiency that this body of go-vernment employees do. They are which I made in the House last Saturday, as between Philadel­ not paid excessively. Their salaries range from $800 to $1,600 phia and Chicago. a year. They occupy, as has been said repeatedly here to-day, Mr. HAYES. Is that speech in the RECORD? the most hazardous place on the train. Three or four days ago, Mr. GARDNER of New Jersey. Yes. My recollection is that out in the West, when the cars of a railroad train went into the passenger car earns considerably in advance-I know it the ditch they carried with them eight men in the postal cars, does--of the postal car. A passenger car carrying 13 passen­ and to their death. This House ought to be appreciative of . gers earns more than a mail car. An express car returning to good service. It ought to help these men out. It takes una­ the company 60 per cent of its earnings pays considerably more nimity of sentiment amongst us to keep this proposition in than a mail car. the bill, and I want to see that unanimity here. I would be Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to for this proposition if it stood alone, but we are doing some return for a moment to the amendment offered by the gentle· things for other portions of the service along similar lines. man from Tennessee [Mr. GARRETT] and amended by the gen· In city delivery we spent $965,000 for horse hire, and for tleman from Pennsylvania [Mr. NICHOLLS], in order that a cor­ vehicles and for car fare and bicycle allowance, $460,000. In rection may be made which the present wording requires. the inspector service we give a per diem of $325,000 annually The CHAIRMAN. Is there objection? and livery hire of $50,000; traveling expenses for the chief in· There was no objection. spectors and inspectors in charge, $25,000; to the assistant Mr. WEEKS. I now offer the following amendment which superintendents we give a traveling expense of $18,000 an­ I send to the desk and ask to have read. nually; in the service for special-delivery letters, $3,000 an­ The Clerk read as follows: nually; in the special-delivery service we give a car-fare al­ After the word "sanitary" insert a comma and the word "and." lowance of $13,000 annually. That is, in all those branches in The CHAIRMAN. The question is on agreeing to the amend- the way of traveling and similar expenses we expend annually ment. $1,816,000. All we are asking for the postal clerks in the rail­ The question was taken, and the amendment was agreed to. way mail trains in this bill this year is $250,000, and I hope The Clerk read as follows: that no man here will raise his voice against it. [Applause.] Railway Mail Service: For 13 dlvision superintendents, at $3,000 Mr. SPERRY. Mr. Chairman, I have not since I have been each ; 13 assistant division superintendents, at $2,000 each; 5 assistant here this winter spoken except in committee in relation to our superintendents, at $2,000 each ; 19 assistant superintendents, at $1,800 It each; 141 chief clerks, at $1,800 each; 301 clerks, class . 6, at not postal business. is a business that you ought to cherish and exceeding $1 600 each; 1,491 clerks, class 5 at not exceedmg $1,500 care for to the extent of your ability. I do not believe that you each· 628 clerks, class 5, at not exceeding $1,400 each; 2,757 clerks, know the full extent that you are indebted to the railway mail class' 4, at not exceeding $1,300 each; 2,251 clerks, class -4, at not ex­ clerks and the business that they perform for you while you ceeding $1,200 each; 6,403 clerks, class 3 at not exceeding $1,100 each; 2 775 clerks, class 2, at not exceeding $.t,0001 each; 600 clerks, class 1, sleep comfortably in your beds. What was said of them by my at not exceeding $900 each ; 600 clerks, class 1, at not exceeding $800 friend who is on the Postal Committee, the encomiums which each ; in all, $20,549,175. he paid those railway clerks, are richly deserved, and no higher Mr. MURDOCK. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the compliment could be paid. And I hope, as he has said, that last word. I desire to call the attention of the committee to this legislation which is proposed by the committee will be 2804 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 1\1.AROH 5 ' adoI>ted, and if a point of order is raised I hope it will not be and the great sum of $64.,000,000 of deficit was caused by the acceded to. Do what you ought to do, do. the best you can for franking privilege. This has been mainly charged by those a. b-Ody of men than which are none more faithful and eificient, · who are in a great measure the beneficiaries of the cheap rates and the people oi this country will applaud and commend. on certain classes o! second-class matter, and to which the [Applause.] Postmaster-General and the President attribute the deficiency• . The CHAIRMAN. Without objection, the pro forma amend­ Now, I find on page 27 of the report of the Postmaster-General. ment of the gentleman from Kansas [Mr. 1\IuBDOCK) will be in discussing these matters,. he says: considered as withclra wn_ INQUIRY AS TO THE COST OF RAILBOAD MAIL. TRANSPORTATION. 1\lr. HUGHES of New Jersey. l\Ir. Chairman, I move to Of the expendimre for the transportation of the mails nbont strike out the last two words in order to state that the senti­ 45,000,000 ·Year is for earri ge on railroads nt rate based on the ments uttered by the gentleman. from Kansas [Mr. MmmocK} weig:hb carried. About $4,'Z00,000 a year in addition is paid !or the [Mr. SPERRY] my . use of railway post-office cars. The fundamental law under which and the gentleman from Connectieut have adjustments are made was passed in 1873. The rates then fixed have sincere approval; and I hope that nobody, at least on this side been reduced from time to time by acts of Congress and by order of of the House, will make a point of order against this provision. the Postmaster-General. Congress reduced the rates for transportation 10 per cent by the act ot 181G. an additional 5 per cent by the act of 1\Ir. l\IAN,J. Nobody over there will ba-ve the ner\"'.e to do it. 1878, and an additional 5 per cent :tor weights above 5,000 pounds and !\Ir. HUGHES of New Jersey. I do not care what qualifica­ less than 48,000 pounds, and about 5.2 per cent for weights above tions they laek, but I hope they will not make it. 48,000 pounds by the act of 1907, which also reduced the pay for rail­ way post-office car service. The effect of the Postmaster-General's 'Iwo or three years ago I offered an amendment of substan­ order of June 7, 1907, requiring the use of the full number of days tially this character, which was subject to a point of order, and, rn the weighing period as a divisor for obtaining the average . Jaily as I recollect, the point of order was made, and then I cited a weights of the mails, was to reduce the compensation for railroad mail transportation between 8 and 10 per cent. The act ot 1876. pro­ case that came within my personal experience and a ease that vides that land-grant railroads shall be compensated at 80 per cent of caused me to offer and support the amendment which was then the usual rate. offered. Upon investigation it will be found that we pay the railroads It was that of a railway mail clerk upon one of these branches more for carrying the mails than the express companies charge of the Erie that haYe been. referred to this afterno:0n. In. addi­ for carrying freight or packages. tion to being compelled to travel on the Erie Railroad, some­ These are the matters that should and do merit the attention what of a punishment in itself, this young man received a salary of tho e disposed to criticise the Members of Congress and un­ of, I think, $675 a year, and was compelled to remain at the end truthfully allege that the use of the franking privilege by Mem­ of the line every night when he had finished his run. It was bers in any way contributes to or causes the present large impossible for him to get back home, and,. as he explained the deficit in the Post-Office Department. It is time for the people situation to me, he was the son of a widowed mother~ living in to know the truth and not be misled by misinformation or un­ Jersey City, paying rent there and supporting bis mother, but truthful statements. eve1·y night was compelled to go. to a summer hotel and pay ffJr his lodging,. pay for his suppel" that night and his breakfast the Now, it is not fuir or true, on the contrary~ it is bearing false ne:rt morning. witness to the country, to say that this great deficit of some seventeen millions of dollars of expense incurred by the Govern­ l\1r. MANN. When was this? Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey., I think it was prior to the ment in handling the mail is doe to the franking privilege used last increase in the railway-mail pay. I think my remarks will by the Members of Congress. For instance, I find free con­ gressional "franks,» $518,385.45; free departmental "penalty," Ehow that I do not claim that exactly this condition exists now. Mr. MANN. I understand, but I wondered how long ago $5,219,661.45, making for mail " franked " by Members and sent out by the -various departments, $5,738,046.10. So, of the nearly it was. Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. It was some two or three $6,000,000 which the Government pays for the transportation years ago. I referred to the matter before on the floor of the of frank and penalty man matter, only one-tenth of that Sllm House, and the gentleman from Wisconsin took issue with me can be charged up to the Members ot Congress for the u e of in regard to the amount of salary· paid. But whatever the the franking privilege in sending out official documents, official merits of. the proposition were then, I will not raise it now, and letters, seeds, and so forth-in effect sending out their Jette~ I will not say now what this man was receiving or what the public documents, and the distribution of seeds to their con­ man who is on that run now is receiving, and I will admit that stituents. I want to put these figures in the RECORD; to deny it is one of the lowest-paid runs in the service. But to-day and dispute the information that has been spread broadcast whoever has that run is compelled to finish up at the mountain over the country by newspapers and other persons interested in end of the New York and Greenwood Lake division. The serv­ deceiving the people, that this great deficit in the Post-Office ice is not in effect in the winter time. He mus.t go there when Department was due to the use of the franking privilege by the hotels are full. How this man was able to pay his way is Members of Congress, because such is not the fact. beyond my comprehension, because I had some experience as Says the Postmaster-General in his last annual report in ref­ erence to the re1enue and expense in the Post-Office Depru:t­ to the charges. made by the hotels in the summe1·. time at ~hat ment; place in that particular year. Tbe man now receives, I think. 'l'he entire work was plaeed in the hands of. a special committee ()() a year, and e--rery day that he works he has t? pay otit of directed to determine the best method of making the es timates and to his own pocket for his supper, his lodging, and his b-reakfast.. prepare them. The final report of the committee was submitted in Now Mr~ Chairman, while perhaps this legislation is not of November: 1900. and presents estimates of revenue· and cost based on the postai receipts and the total expenditures on account of the postal such' a character that it will suit tbe individual exigencies of establishment for the fiscal year 1908, as follows : each case, yet it will help a man situated like this. • If it is true as perhaps it is, that it will help men who do not R(li;enue, e~ e nse, ancl profit or loss for tlze_ s ~ve 1'.al classes. of mail ana the re{Ji. .~try, m on ey-order, an cl specwL-aelivery s rvices. renlly need u: because they are .g~tting salary enoug~ to. enable them to meet an occasional additional expense of this kind, yet Item. Revenue. Expense. Profit. it will reach a great number of eases; it will help a great num­ Loss. ber of poorly paid men who are now sent out and who have no option as to where they are to go or when they shall retm:n• Clas es of ID1lil: First------$132,304,844.51 $78 ,630,&li>.89 $.53 ,67l,19-L62 ------and who do not receive salary enough to enable them to dis­ Second------9, 066 ,Q.i3.61 73,194,(}i(). 52 ------$64,128 ,0'2 .91 charge this additional expense, forced npon them l:>y the service> Third------·---- 25,556 ,111.37 28,785,633 .49 ------3,2"29, 522.12 in addition to their fixed expenses and charges at home. I sin­ Fourth----··-·---- 7,755,9'21.70 5,6U9 , 732.lll 2, 77 ,042 513 . 8 the House to a matter which S-Ometimes heretofore has been 18 626 831 9 alled attention to by Members, as to th~ use of the franking ~:;o~~ -i>iiia--o~Wi-Sieitm-iti-P-~oml>~~~--~a~~--coitt:I-a-c-£8 ,-.-ill- ' ' - privilege, and its cost. The COlJ.Iltry, through ID!s~ormation. accordance with act o:f March 3, 1891, for ocenn man service, has been impressed with the idea. that the deficit m the han­ in excess of amount which woukl have been allowed had the carrying steamers not been under such contracts.·------· 626,261.0i dling of the mails was caused in a great measure by the frank­ 1----- ing privilet?e accorded to Members of Congress by the la'"Y'. Total deficit----·------·-----. ------· ---·---·--··---- 1!>,253,092.63 That misinformation has been conveyed to the country, as if J------the franking privilege was alone used by Members of Congress,. •Fees only. 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2805

From this it will be seen that the great loss was sustained in fere with the automatic promotions of railway mail clerks and the carrying and handling through the mails of second-dass to require the department to keep within the sum appropriated, matter, .to wit, a loss of nearly $65,000,000, nearly $59,000,000 although under the automatic-promotion system it might create more of loss to the Government for carrying second-class matter a deficiency. I will ask the gentleman, Is the amount appro­ than is paid for carrying all the official mail of the Government, priated herein sufficient to provide for the clerks named? including that carried under the franks of the Members of Con­ Mr. FINLEY. Does the gentleman from Illinois ·understand gress, Senators and Representativ~s. Why, I kn.ow instances that railway mail clerks are under the classification act of 1907? where iron letter boxes have been sent through the mails by Mr. MANN. I do not know whether they are in the classifica­ the government officials, when it was cheaper to send by ex­ tion of 1907. I do not think they are, but they are in a classi­ press. The Members of Congress ·are not chargeable for any fication act which provides for auto~tic promotions. I will great expense upon the Government in the use of the mail by not undertake to say which act it is, because I do not recalL exercise of the franking privilege. One-tenth only of this sum They have been increased. The gentleman from New Jersey is chargeable to them. · I apprehend that if an investigation were [Mr. HUGHES] a-moment ago referred to a railway mail clerk made of the circumstances where any Member of Congress had who received $.600 a year. abused this privilege, it would be found that instances were · Mr. HUGHES of New Jersey. Six hundred and some odd. very rare indeed, and wherever it may be done, and the frank Mr. MANN. The least that a man receives when he enters had not been properly used, it had been franked on the idea the service, as I understand, is $800 a year, and that is only that the Member had the right to frank it under the law, and for six months. His salary is then increased to $900. it was the decision of some post-office official construing a regu­ I did not know whether there was any special reason in this lation of that department. Take the Members franking the case for having this provision in the bill. If there is not, I will labels for the distribution of seeds and documents. They were make the point of order against it. held up in the post-office here at Washington. Mine were not, Mr. WEEKS. In this and the preceding paragraph the com­ because mine were sent by express and as baggage. I received mittee adopted the recommendations of the department, includ­ a circular notice from the Agricultural Department saying that ing the number of clerks required for the service, the promo­ it had been informed by the postmaster of this office that num­ tions, and the amount of money to carry on the service; in other bers of franks of Members which were upon labels for the dis­ words, it has not changed the estimates made by the depart- tribution of seed were held in the post-office for postage under ment. · a ruling that these were not frankable. Mr. CRUMPACKER. I want to suggest that I have fre­ It is a construction which, in my judgment, is not authorized quently asked the Post-Office Department for additional clerks by law. It is simply authorized by a regulation of the Post­ in some growing communities in a district which I have the Ofilce Department, and if it is a correct construction and a honor to represent, and have been often informed that there proper regulation of the post-office, the Post-Office Committee, it was no provision, that the appropriation had been exhausted. occurs to me, ought to have corrected it by an amendment to Mr. MANN. Then I will say to the gentleman from Indiana this bill, because neither the documents nor seeds which are that the department was stringing him, because there has been allotted to the Members can be distributed unless they bear the no recent year when they did not have additional clerks author­ properly addressed labels, and to compel the Members to pay ized by law at the end of the year. postage would put upon them an expense never contemplated Mr. CRUMPACKER. Then I have been frequently strung, they should incur when they are simply discharging an official and I thought the department was dealing squarely with me. I duty to their constituents, and it is an expense that I am sure will investigate. I wondered if this bill provides for the ordi­ our constituents would not require of us. nary exigencies that arise in the service. It ought to, in view As a Member of the House, who has been here for fifteen of this very ironclad provision. years and watched the course of Members closely, I am &'ttisfied Mr. CAMPBELL. Speaking of stringing-- that these widely circulated charges of the general abuse by Mr. MANN. I will withdraw that remark. I do not wish to Members are utterly unfounded and that the instances of such get into a controversy about it, because I haYe the greatest re­ abuse have been very rare, indeed. spect for the Post-Office Department, and I think they endeavor I call the attention of the House and of the country to this to do the correct thing as far as they can. subject for tbe purpose of showing that the largest portion of Mr. CAMPBELL. I have frequently tried to secure an in­ the mail matter which the Government sends through the mail, crease of the salaries of clerks and assistant postmasters, and for which it pays $5,700,000, is not chargeable to Members of have been told that on account of the lack of appropriation it Congress, but is properly chargeable to the departments for would be impossible to give the assistant postmaster half the sending out the official mall, and what ls.required to be done by amount that was given the postmaster. Was I strung at that them I apprehend in the proper discharge of their duties to the time? people of the country. There may be abuses in this regard, but Mr. MA.i~. The information furnished by the Post-Office let the blame fall on the proper officials, and not improperly be Department to Members of the House sounds to me very much charged up to the Representatives of the people, like the information which Members of the House often fur­ The Post-Office Department was not intended or proposed nish to their constituents as an excuse for their inability to to be a money-making institution, nor established for such a secure the passage of bills, when they lay the blame upon the purpose. It was intended and established, and should be now Speaker of the House. [Laughter.] maintained, for the purpose of carrying the mails for the con­ Mr. CAMPBELL. I never accused the Speaker of anything of venience of the people who pny the taxes to carry on the Gov­ ernment. The franking privilege granted to Members ·of Con­ that kind. gress has not been abused and has not increased the deficiencies Mr. UANN. Oh, well, the Speaker or some committee; we of this service. You realize that when you take into consider­ are prone to do that; but I apprehend that this item is in the ation the fact that the amount which it costs to carry the offi­ bill simply because it was in the bill last year. cial correspondence of Members, the official documents which Mr. WEEKS. The committee believed it was a good limita­ they send out, and the seeds which they distribute, is only one­ tion to place on the department. I do not think any great tenth of the amount for carrying the malls free for Members irregularity will be developed if it goes out on a point of order, and government officials. and I am not going to take the time to oppose it if the gentle­ I have said this much as a matter of justice to the Members man from Illinois wishes to make the point of order. I believe of Congress, so that the country may understand, from the it is a suitable limitation to be in the bill. official figures presented by the Postmaster-General, how absurd Mr. MANN. I believe the only purpose ls to prevent the pro­ and false these charges are, and for the purpose of setting them motions provided by law which we have promised, and I there­ at rest and repelling the flippant slander so freely circulated fore insist on the point of order. on this subject. [Applause.] The CHAIRMAN. The point of order is sustained. The Clerk read as follows: The Clerk read as follows: And the appointment and assignment of clerks hereunder shall be so That in addition to the salaries hereinbefore provided the Postmaster­ made durin~ the fiscal year as not to involve a greater aggregate ex­ General is hereby authorized to make travel allowances, not exceeding in the aggregate the sum hereby appropriated, to railway postal clerk& penditure than this sum. assigned to duty in railway post-office cars for expenses incurred by them while on duty, after twelve hours from the time of beginning their Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order upon initial run, under such regulations as he may prescribe, and in no case that paragraph. shall such an allowance exceed 75 cent per day ; and all the details Mr. WEEKS. That paragraph was in last year's bill. I do pertaining to this service shall be reported to Congress not later than not know its previous history. December 10, 1910; and for such travel allowances the sum of $250,000 l\fr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, this paragraph is exactly similar ls hereby appropriated. to one that went out 9n a point of order in the case of clerks, Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order on and also in the case of carriers. The purpose of it was to inter- that. 2806 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. :MARCH 5, ;

Mr. COX of Indiana. Mr. Chairman, I rose for the purpose their homes, nobody estimates that it would cost more than · of offering an amendment, but the point of order had better be $1,800,000, and that would include clerks in apartment cars 1 disposed of first. as well as those who serve in railway post-office cars. · Mr. MANN. I would like to make an inquiry of the chair­ Mr. 1\IANN. That is what this practically does. man in regard to this matter. Upon what basis· did the com­ Mr. WEEKS. Oh, I beg the gentleman's pardon. I do not mittee arrive at the conclusion it did, and what it intends to think it does. cover, in that part of the paragraph which says that all the Mr. MANN. I am asking for information. details pertaining to this service shall be reported to Congress Mr. WEEKS. I am trying to give it. not later than the 10th of next December, when the provision Mr. MANN. The gentleman says that he does not see that is for the next fiscal year, which does not end for seven months it does, but he does not explain the language in the bill. It after that time? says postal clerks assigned to duty in railway post-office cars Mr. WEEKS. It will not be difficult for the Post-Office De­ after twelve hours from the time of beginning their initial partment to report to Congress the methods it has adopted for runs shall receive not to exceed 75 cents a day. Certainly it is the expenditure of this money. It is not the policy to pay for a very small number of clerks who do not exceed twelve hours those clerks under this provision more than 75 cents a day. a day from the time of the beginning of the run until the time The reason for making that limitation is that the clerks have of the end of the run, although they may have laid off several contended that $1 a day would be a fair traveling allowance. hours during the day. · The Post-Office Committee does not wish to establish a prece­ Mr. WEEKS. That statement is simply an assertion on dent of paying for a midday meal in the postal service or in the part of the gentleman from Illinois, and it does not con­ the government service, and therefore it places that limitation form to any of the facts before the Post-Office Committee. in this provision. Mr. 1\IANN. The gentleman confines himself to denying an In addition the committee decided that those clerks who are assertion. I have been familiar with the Railway Mail Service at their own domiciles overnight, as many are, who get their much longer than bas the gentleman from Massachusetts, and own breakfast and evening meals at home, were not entitled to if the gentleman will give us information that has been before the same consideration as those who are away for a longer his committee, very wen, but it does not seem to me that it is period, and for that reason the committee put in the limita­ sufficient for the chairman of a great committee to give no in­ tion that the rate of compensation should commence twelve formation in reference to a matter which he wishes to pass by hours after the clerk leaves his domicile. unanimous consent. The gentleman has as yet given us no in­ Now, the department will establish some method of pro­ formation as to how many clerks or what clerks would be cov­ cedure in this case. It is the purpose of the committee, which ered by this provision. has been communicated to the department, that this money be -Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, the reason the chairman of the expended for men who are away from home the longest time. Post-Office Committee has not given that information is because When the department has carried out that policy, has made a the committee intends that this shall be an experimental service. statement of its method of carrying it out, then the committee It is not intended to limit the manner of expenditure of this and Congress will have information on which to increase or money. It is left in the hands of the Post-Office Department to change the allowance if it seems advisable to do so. expend in those cases where men are away from their homes Mr. MANN. May I ask the gentleman a further question? the longest time, the most needy cases, along the lines which This practically will cover all the railway mail clerks in the we hope to follow in future; and the gentleman from Illinois service? will see in this provision, on line 10, " under such regulations Mr. WEEKS. Oh, no. as he may prescribe," that we ·have left in the hands of the Mr. MANN. How many men in the service are there that do department the method of the expenditure of this money and not work over twelve hours a day? then have provided that the department shall report to Con­ Mr. WEEKS. I do E.Ot know how many that do not work gress not later than December 10 of next year as to how the sometimes twelve hours a day; they generally work a week on money has been expended, so that we may have information and a week off in the railway post-office cars. There are many how to proceed wisely in future. clerks on short lines who are at home every night and get their Mr. DOUGLAS. Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask for in­ breakfasts and evening meals at home. It is not the intention formation whether or not the expression "traveling allowance" of the committee that this appropriation shall apply to those has come in the departments to have a meaning which includes men. lodging and meals of anyone entitled to such an allowance. Mr. MANN. But it does apply to them, nevertheless. That seems to be accepted by the chairman of the committee, Mr. WEEKS. I do not think it does. and if that is true I want to know it. Why should not the word Mr. MANN. There are a few clerks who work every day "traveling" be stricken out? That is the point with me. in the year, except when they get annual leave. Most of the Mr. WEEKS. This allowance is called a traveling allowance clerks, I judge over 90 per cent, work two weeks on and two in post-office appropriation bills. Men who are on the road are weeks off. allowed a traveling allowance. That is simply the general Mr. WEJEJKS. One week on and one week off, to state it phraseology. correctly. Mr. DOUGLAS. It means board and lodging, does it? Mr. MANN. That is correct; most of them work one week Mr. WEEKS. In this case it is intended to give a man 75 on and one week off. This item will apply to all of those cents a day after he has been away twelve hours and let him clerks. I dare say there are a few cases where a man works expend it as he wishes-at the rate of 75 cents a day. one week on and one week off who does , not work more than Mr. DOUGLAS. Or any part of the 75 cents which the de­ twelve hours a day the week that he is working. If he com­ mences his run in the morning at 5 o'clock and goes out on a partment may determine? route and comes back and gets in so that the time is more than Mr. WEEKS. Yes. twelve hours from the time he started out, he gets the allow­ Mr. CAMPBELL. I think I understand the matter, Mr. ance, although he may be at home overnight. Chairman, as the chairman of the committee has stated, and I ' Mr. WEEKS. If he did he· would only get 25 cents a day. hope the gentleman from Illinois will not make the point of l\Ir. MANN. Seventy-five cents a day. order. Mr. WEEKS. Not to exceed 75 cents a day is the provision Mr. MANN. Oh, I do not care what the gentleman from in the bill; and furthermore, the committee is well aware of Kansas hopes. I will be glad to have his information, but Ws the fact that $250,000 will not furnish sufficient money to pay hopes do not cut any ice with me-with all due respect to my all the clerks who are away from home longer than the time distinguished friend. provided for in the appropriation, or the proportional part of Mr. CAMPBELL. I am a.ware that the gentleman from Illi­ that amount which they would be paid for the time they nois is in the habit of doing as he pleases in the House. are away. But-- It is quite likely that more money will be required to carry Mr. MANN. Now, let me call the attention of the gentleman out this provision following. The committee is not informed from Kansas to this proposition. Here is a proposition which just how much money will be required for that purpose. theoretically purports to give to the railway mail clerks 75 Mr. MANN. I wanted to get some idea about that. How cents a day when they are on their run more than tWelve many postal clerks are there in the service 'l hours. That is theoretical. It will not do it. Mr. WEEKS. About 16,000. Mr. CAMPBELL. Why? Mr. MANN. This would cost on an average close on to $150 Mr. MANN. It is a promise held out, no doubt, in good faith a clerk. by the committee. I think there is grave doubt about the de~ Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, if the clerks were paid a dol- sirability of doing it at all, and I have always gone on the lar a day for all the time they are in the service a way from proposition if finally you do agree to promise to a man that 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD--HOUSE. 2807

you live up to your promise. The $250,000 will not begin to year either lose their lives or become crippled and incapacitated pay this traveling allowance between the end of this session of by reason of the perilous work in which they are engaged. Congress and the beginning of the next session of Congress, and While I would have rejoiced to have seen $500,000 carried in eTen if it did do it, there would still be a deficit. But it will this item, or a million dollars, as a token of recognition to pay not do that. a deserving class of people that heretofore have been entirely Mr. MICHAELE. DRISCOLL. Did the gentleman say there omitted from such benefit, I trust this work will go on and was $150 to a man? I thought he did a while ago. this travel pay will be extended until equal and exact jus­ l\Ir. CAMPBELL. If e-very man in the service was entitled tice is meted out to employees along this line. Too much to 75 cents a day for every day in the year, it would amount to credit can not be given to this class of employees. They are that; but it certainly can not be contended by the gentleman compelled to work in perilous places, and many of them soon from Illinois [Mr. MANN] that e"Very man in the postal service meet an untimely death is some deadly wreck. Again, their would be entitled to the 75 cents a day under the provision. work is so arduous and exacting that they are soon broken l\Ir. MANN. Ninety per cent of them will be entitled to it down and are compelled to retire and seek other employment. so far as dealing justly and evenly with them is concerned. If I hope to see Congress pass a law upon which appropriations the intention is not to give them 75 cents a day, but only give can be based so that points of order will not be in order, and them 25 cents or ·35 cents a day, I believe in paying that. I do then a, Member of this House will be in a position to offer any not believe in holding out to the railway mail clerk the suppo­ amendments he sees fit to offer. [Applause.] sition and promise of 75 cents a day, and then pretty soon, if Mr. MARTIN of Colorado. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike the money runs short, not be able to collect the allowance. out the last two wooos. I should have liked to offer an amend­ Mr. LOWDEN. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last ment to this paragraph., increasing this allowance from 75 cents two words simply for one suggestion. _ _ to $1. But I find myself in the same category as the gentleman Mr. MANN. Mr. Chairman, I do not propose in this case to from Indiana, under duress under the threat of the gentleman insist upon the point of order, because, although I think the from Arkansas that he will insist upon the point of order. Like committee in doing this has not given it the attention that it the gentleman from Indiana, I prefer half a loaf to no bread; ought to receive, so far as_they have done anything at an, it but I frankly state that that 75 cents a day, given for this pur­ is a good step. So I will withdraw the point of order. pose to the class of men who render such service, looks like an l\Ir. MACON. Mr. Chairman, I renew the point of order. insult. We know that they will not get even three meals a day Mr. WEEKS. I want to make one comment. for that, to say nothing of lodging, although it may be a violent ~Ir. CLINE. Mr. Chairman-- presumption that the railway mail clerk will need· any lodging Mr. MACON. Mr. Chairman, I renewed the point of order and will want to sleep while away from home. A great deal has for the purpose of getting an assurance that there will not be been said about the average that it costs the railway mail clerks an attempt to increase the amount provided for in this para­ of the United States for expenses annually. I want to call your graph. I have that assurance now, and I will withdraw the attention to some figures, that show not only the cost, but the point of order. gross inequality in wages, that is worked by the present dis­ Mr. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, I wish to offer an amendlnent. crimination against the railway mail clerk, a discrimination The CHAIBMAN. The gentleman from Indiana [Mr. Cox] practiced against no other branch of the government service, desired to offer an amendment. · requiring them to pay all their expenses out of their own Mr. COX of Indiana. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out pockets. the last word. I hold in my hand a little pamphlet giYing the total expenses I agree with the gentleman from lliinois,-Mr. Chairman, that on all runs in the seventh Railway Mail Service district, which when we make a promise we ought to keep it, but under pres­ comprises the States of Missouri, Kansas, Colorado, and New ent conditions I am perfectly willing if we can not get a whole Mexico. It contains a table, which was carefully compiled, as loaf to accept half a loaf. I have stood all the way through I am reliably informed, and it shows that the expenses range both in the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads and o~ annually from nothing to $306. And I find that in my own the floor of this House, for economy, but I ·have never carried district in the State of Colorado is located the mail run in it either in the committee room or upon the floor of this House which the annual expense is $306. The wages of these mail to the extent where I believed it would destroy the efficiency clerks are nine, ten, and eleven hundred dollars a year, and of the service. [Applause.] I will not do that. many of them have to support a family after taking out an Mr. Chairman, the RECORD shows that the first or second annual expense of two or three hundred dollars. This works item in this bill is an item of $325,000 per diem pay for post­ an inequality in wages of from 25 to 30 per cent between the office inspectors. We pay a fair per diem of $4 per day to clerk on one run and another performing an identical service 300 post-office inspectors, thereby increasing their salaries one in another portion of the district where there is no expense thousand and eighty-odd dollars per annum. It can not be incurred for food and lodging while away from home. found from the beginning to the end of this bill where a single Mr. WEEKS. May I call the attention of the gentleman from man working in the interest of the Post-Office Department and Colorado to the fact that in these long, expensi>e runs, generally traveling in its interest, has not his expenses paid, e::tcept the speaking, the clerks drawing the highest salaries perform the railway post-office employees. service? And it is the purpose of the committee that this 75 And in making a former amendment I said either the $4 per cents shall be apportioned and applied to such cases as that day was too much or else here was a much-neglected class of which he describes. people who were entitled to a reasonable traveling pay. But l\lr. MARTIN of Colorado. Mr. Chairman, for the purpose of we are assured, Ur. Chairman, that if a motion is made here to future information for this House, I would like the permi sion increase the amount a point of order will be made against it, of the House to include in my remarks this table that I hold in and therefore I refrain from making the motion to increase the my hand, and to which I have referred, showing the inequality amount, becau e I know the item is subject to a point of order that has been-effected in the wages of the mail clerks by requir­ and if a point of order is made against it the entire item will ing them to pay their travel expenses, and which specifies class go out of the bill. This is a recognition, as was well said by 3, or $1,100 clerks. the gentleman from Kansas [l\Ir. MURDOCK], and so well said by The statement and table are as follows: that venerable gentleman from the State of Connecticut [Mr. The average pay of the postal clerk ls $1,152 per year, and out of SPERRY], of the most valuable and trusted set of employees of this amount he is required to pay his expenses, which average $131.40 all the 325,000 people working for the Post-Office Department. per annum. The amount of this expense to the individual is deter­ mined largely by the number of hours spent away from home and by The proof shows that the average salary of railway postal the section of the country in which the clerk runs. Clerks of . the clerks is $1,165 per year. The proof shows that the average same class (as class 3 at $1,100 per annum) are paid the same wage expenses of each one of these clerks is $133.19 per year; that the country over. Bu41 for the reasons above mentioned, the expenses of the clerks vary greatly. A clerk may be detailed to office duty and the average net salary to each railway postal clerk is $1,036.08, be at home at all times. He may be assigned to a short run and be at .approximately the snme salary that the letter carriers get for home every night and for most of his meals. He may be on a long working eight hours in the delivery of the mail in the cities, a run, extending over several days and nights, or he may be on a run in a section of the country where living is high. But wherever be runs, ·less amount of salary than the clerks get for working in the or whatever the conditions, the clerk of class 3, out of his pay of $1,100 majority of the post-offices in this country. Yet here is a class per year, must pay all of his expenses while away from home attend­ of people that in the year 1909 handled one billion two hundred ing to the duties of his appointment. The same is true for the clerks of the other classes. They may receive more or less pay than the and odd million pounds of mail, distributed it to the various clerk of class 3, but out of this pay must come the expenses while centers and various places of delivery throughout the United away from home. . States, yet up to the present time their merits have never been In order to show the great difference that exists, I insert a state­ ment of the expenses of the clerks of the seventh Railway Mail Service recognized in the matter of giving to them any travel allowance division, a division composed of the States of Missouri, Kansas, Colo­ whatever. The proof shows scores upon scores of them every rado, and New Mexico. This statement was made by a clerk upon each 2808 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE<\ MARCH 5",.

line named, or by a clerk upon a connecting line, and is substantially correct: Number Cost per Name of line. men. month. Name of line. Number Oost per men. month. St. Louis and Malden------· 8 $37.50 St. Louis, Moberly-, and Kansas CitY------· 39 419.00 St. Louis and Monett------· 82 828.00 Albuquerque and EI PasO------·------­ 4 $53.00 St. Louis and ParsoILS------19 182.00 Alarnosa and Amethyst •.•.•• ·----·---·---·------­ 1 10.50 Salida and Ouray ______------· 4 47.50 Altamont and Atchison ..•. ------­ 2 22.50 Salina and McPherson·------1 Amarillo and Albuquerque------5 59.00 Salina and OakleY------·---- 6 81.50 Antonio and Santa Fe·--·--·------2 42.00 Santa Fe and Torrance·------2 37.50 Arkansas Oity and AnthonY------• 1 6.50 Sedalia and Kansas OitY------­ 4 52.50 Atchison and Lenora------~ 18 162.50 Sedalia and Paola------2 30.00 Attica and Belvidere .... -·-.. ------. 1 6.50 Sedalia and Warsaw•••.•• ------· 1 6.50 Belleville and Junction OitY------· 2 6.50 Solomon and Beloit .. ------·------___ .. 2 13.00 Booneville and Versailles .•. __ ------· l 6.50 Springfield and Chadwick------·---- 1 6.50 Oairo and Poplar Bluff ______2 7.50 Supcrior and Strong ______------· 4 5.5.00 Caldwell and lngersolL ______1 6.50 Topeka and Fort Scott ______3 13.00 Cameron and Kansas CitY------·------­ 2 15.00 Villisca and St. Joseph·------· 2 27.00 Cameron and Leavenworth ....•. _·---·------1 7.50 Wellington and Tonkawa .. ------_ .. 1 7.50 Capo Girardeau, Cairo, and Leach______4 40.00 Wichita and Englewood------·------4 86.00 Chanute and Emporia .. __ ------______------______2 7.50 Chariton and Kansas CitY------­ 6 70.00 Chariton and St. Joe·------·------·------­ 3 30.50 This will show that 1,199 clerks spend $13,276 per month, or $159,312 Oheyenne and Denver __ -·----·----·------2 10.50 per year. . DO------Do ______2 31.50 Average per .clerk per year, $132.87. 2 42.00 Total for clerks on road duty in United States. $1,836,793.56. Colorado Springs and Cripple Creek.. ______1 10.50 Average per clerk in United States yearly, $131.40. Colorado Springs and Glenwood Springs------·-- 3 42.00 It will be noticed that some of these men are at no expense what­ OoJorado Springs division and Cripple Creek______~ 1 1 15.00 ever, and have for the use of themselves and their families the full Conway Springs and Larned------· 2 7.50 amount of the wage provided by law. Others are at an expense rang­ Council Bluffs and Kansas CitY------35 394.00 ing from $44.80 to $306 per year, which amount must be deducted Creston and St. Joseph __ __ :; ______!______5 28 .00 from the wage provided by law. It does not cost the class 3 clerk on Cuba and Salem.------·------·------l 6.50 the Salina and McPherson a cent to earn his $1,100. It costs the Cripple Creek and Canon CitY------' 1 10.50 class 3 clerk on the Ridgeway and Durango $306 per year to earn his Denver and Colorado Springs·------·------1 9.00 $794. Decatur and Moberly ______------3 22.50 The only way in which this inequality can be remedied ls by the Denver and Grand Junction..------­ 20 262 .50 payment by the Government of the necessary expenses of the clerks Denver and La Junt&------6 52.50 while away from their initial terminal. In no other way can the clerks Denver and McCoy Siding______·------2 46.50 (and their families), regardless of where they run, have an equal Denver and Leadville..------'------­ 3 52.50 amount at the end of the year. · Des Moines and Kansas CitY------·------·------·------· 23 244.00 Denver and Silver Plume______. 6 84.00 The Railway Mail Service and the Post-Office Committee are Do------r r 1 21.00 to be congratulated upon the first step, as taken in this bill, to Emporia and Moline ______.,. ______... __ ~' 2 6.50 remedy the gross iniquities disclosed by that table, and it is to Florence and Arkansas CitY------1 7.50 Florence and Ellinwood.. ______: ______2 7.50 be sincerely hoped that for the first time a point of order will Grandin and Willo'v Springs...... r • 1 6.50 not be pressed against it. Great Bend and Scott------~ · r- 1 2 19.50 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Colorado asks unani­ Hannibal and North Franklin .••. ---·------4 30.00 Hannibal and Gilmore..• ______. ______------3 22.50 mous consent to extend his remarks in the RECORD. Is there Henry and St. Jo eph------­ 1 7.50 objection? [After a pause.] The Chair hears none. H erington and Salina·------·------· I 1 6.50 Mr. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, I offer the following amend­ Hutchinson and Blackwell .... ---·------! : 2 13.00 Hutchinson and KinsleY------­ 1 6.50 ment. Independence and Cedarvale. ------­ 1 7.50 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from South Carolina offers Jamestown and Burr Oak..------1 an amendment which the Clerk will report. Kansas City, A.G. and Spring______6 U.00 Kansas City and Caldwell. ______------· 38 384.00 The Clerk read as follows : Kansas City and Coffeyville ______13 131.00 Amend, on page 22, by striking out, beginning with line 4, all down Kansas City and Colorado Springs------­ 41 529.00 to and including . the word " ten," in line 14, and insert the following : Kansas City and Denison ...... •. ------·----· 63 700.00 "That on. and after the 1st day of July, 1910, the Postmaster-Gen­ Kansas City and Denver·---·------·------· 46 501.50 eral, under such regulations as he may prescribe, may make a travel Kansas City and El Paso------53 529.50 allowance in lieu of actual expenses to each raiiway postal clerk Kansas City and Emporia ______2 13.00 who is assigned to duty in a railway post-office, at the rate of 25 Kansas City and Grand Island------­ 16 190.00 cents for each meal and lodging, which, in the opinion of the Post­ Kansas City and Joplin------·------~------· 13. 172.00 master-General, may be necessary for said railway postal clerk while Kansas City and La Junta------­ 9'2 905.00 he is traveling on duty away from his home and the initial point of Kansas City and Mempbis------­ 52 670.00 his run, but such allowance shall not exceed a dollar for any period of twenty-four hours." Kansas City and PueblO------Siloam Springs ______25 293.00 16 150.00 Mr. MACON. Mr. Chairman, this is a new amendment, it Kansas City and Springfield------·------·-· 4 43.00 Kansas OJty and Tulsa~------­ 11 116.00 seems, to this bill. Kansas City and Wellington .... ------· 11 121.00 Mr. FINLEY. Why, certainly. ·It does not increase the Kansas City and Virginia------­ . 5 50.50 $250,000. La Junta and Albuquerque.•.• -----·------15 175.50 Larned and Jetmore .. ------______·---____ . __ 1 1\lr. MACON. And seems to be subject to the point of order. Lawrence and GridleY------­ 3 30.00 Mr. FINLEY. I am willing for the gentleman to make it; but Leavenworth and Lawrence. ------1 6.50 I do not think it is. Leavenworth and Topeka______------· 1 6.50 Lincoln and Manhattan _____ ------______------_------.. 2 13.00 Mr. MA.CON. Mr. Chairman, I reserve the point of order 1 9.00 upon the amendment. i;~clie~t! ~~dv~a~nara=: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::~ i : 1 6.50 The CHAIRMAN. The gentleman from Arkansas reserves McPherson and Eldorado .•• ------F · 1 13.00 Monett and Ellsworth------­ 19 198.00 the point of order on the amendment. Montrose and Grand Junction·------1 10.50 Mr. MA.CON. Mr. Chairman, I will say to the gentleman Nevada and Wichita._.·--- ___ --- ______------6 61.50 from South Carolina that I thought I had his word that there Newton and Amarillo __ ------­ 22 247.50 North Platte and Dcnver .... ------­ 3 42.00 would be no attempt to increase this appropriation. Old Monroe and Mexico------·------· r 1 7.50 Mr. FINLEY. That is true. This does not increase the Mexico and Jeff er. on CitY------­ 1 appropriation. If the gentleman will observe the reading of the Omaha and Kansas CitY------··· 14 166.00 PerryVale and Cape Girardeau •••. ------·------· 1 7.50 amendment, it does not affect the appropriation of $250,000 Pittsburg and Chanute______• 1 7.50 at all. Prosser and Concordia .... ---·------·------·---· t~ 2 32.50 Mr. MACON. It does not affect the lump sum·, but it ·does Puxico and Hunter._._ ----- __ ------­ 1 6.50 Ridgway and Durango (north end)------· 2 51.00 increase the amount to be paid out by the Postmaster-General Ridgway and Durango. ------·------· 1 7.50 to $1 per day, at least. . Rincon and Silver CitY------··------­ 2 45.00 Mr. FINLEY. Why, Mr. Chairman, the gentleman from .A:r­ Riverside and Doe Run---·------­ 3 37.50 St. Genevieve and Bismarck------·------­ 1 7.50 kansas is mistaken. If he will turn to page 39 of the Second St. Joseph, Atchison, and Topeka------· 2 30 .00 Assistant Postmaster-General's report, he will see that this St. Joseph and Nelson------4 37.50 whole matter is in the discretion of the Postmaster-General, S t. Joseph and Topeka------3 30.00 it 8 t. Louis and Columbus.------· 6 75.00 and so is the provision which is in the bill. Mr. Chairman, St. Louis and Council Bluffs ______.: ____ _ 28 215.00 I may have the attention of the committee, the gentleman from St. Louis, Eldon, and Kansas OitY------·------10 154.00 Arkansas is entirely mistaken. My amendment does not in• 14 116.50 ~~: ~~~ ~~~ it~ir:~nrnt:i:::::::::::::::::_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-j 123 1,660 .50 crease the amount appropriated for the purpose of carrying St. L-0uis, Louisiana, and Kansas City______j 17 216.50 out this proposed new law at all, and I will say to the gentle~ 1910. _CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE.

man that what is in the bill now is entirely insufficient to pay no difference between the provision in the bill and in the amend· in full all that is stated in the provision. It will require from ment. He must make rules and regulations for carrying out a million and a quarter to a million and a half dollars to carry this provision of law within the limits of the appropriation of out what is in the bill, and for this year we only propose to $250,000 for the next year. appropriate $250,000, so my amendment proposes two things- Mr. CLINE. I am not objecting to that, but I supposed that ·first, to make permanent law a provision which is in the bill the committee arrived at some conclusion, under what circum­ . that is only temporary in its character; it is not permanent law stances this money was to be paid out, inasmuch as they could and will not be permanent law when enacted, and I propose the not appropriate for the whole of it. recommendation which is carried in the Second Assistant Post- Mr. FINLEY. The committee knew, and every man in this master-General's report and which, if enacted, will be perma- House is bound to know, that $250,000 will not cover the whole nent law. amount. The committee could not formulate rules and regu- I would rather have the permanent law, and I stated frankly lations. They could not provide by law how much should be to the gentleman, as I have before privately and otherwise, paid to each man. What we did was to make a general pro­ here and elsewhere, that I do not propose to ask for an in- vision, and then provide an amount of money, which, in my judg­ crease of this item of $250,000, so that I have entirely and j ment, will not be 18 per cent of what the full expenditure would .fully conformed to what I have said, so far as I am concerned be if the law were carried out completely. and so far as I believe, that this amount of $250,000 will not be Mr. COX of Indiana. The paying of the money is solely a increased. matter of administration, is it not? Mr. MACON. Mr. Chairman, if the gentleman from South Mr. FINLEY. That is solely a matter of administration, and Carolina cn.n assure me that there is no difference between 75 the Postmaster-General is required to formulate rules and regu­ cents and a dollar, then he can satisfy me that there will not lations; and he can not expend more than $250,000 whether the be any increase in this appropriation. [Applause.] But he provision in the bill remains or whether the amendment which must show me that there is no difference between 75 cents and I have offered is carried. That makes no difference. When a dollar before I can see it as he does. a man is absent from home, say, for only one meal, he is not Mr. FINLEY. I will say this to the gentleman, that this bound to gi"rn that man anything if, in his judgment, he thinks whole matter is left in the Q.iscretion of the Postmaster-General, he should not have it, as compared with other people who are and he will only pay it to the people who, in his judgment a:qd away from home a longer period. discretion, are best entitled to it. Two hundred and fifty thou- Now, I will say that this class of people is comparatively sand dollars will not carry out the provision which is here on small, anyway. It is estimated that anywhere from $15,000 to page 22 of the post-office appropriation bill, beginning with liQ.e $25,000, even if you pay that class who would only be absent 4 and ending with line 16. one meal from home, would be sufficient. That is the best Mr.. MACON. Will the gentleman allow me to ask him if he opinion I can get, and I say that the Postmaster-General could never heard of a deficiency in an appropriation by reason of a not spend one cent more in the administration of this proposed department attempting to pay every demand that was made law in the bill or by my amendment than $250,000 in the next upon it, and in that way exceeding the appropriation for the fiscal year. department? . But I may as well be fair, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the Mr. ·FINLEY. And let me ask the gentleman if he has read time will come when of necessity this appropriation will be· in- line 14, on page 22, these words: creased. The time will come when Congress, in the exercise of .And for such travel allowances the sum of $250,000 Is hereby appro- its sound discretion and judgment, will appropriate more than priated. $250,000, because that sum will only pay a very few of these .Mr . .MACON. Yes. 15,000 or 16,000 clerks in the railway postal service their ex- 1\Ir. FINLEY. The gentleman from Arkansas does not seem pense account; or if you would pay pro rata, it would be a to have caught the meaning of my statement that this $250,000 very small percentage to each one of these clerks. will not carry out the purpose for which it is intended by over So that the principal point of distinction between the provi- a million dollars. sion in the bill and the amendment is that the provision in the Mr. MACON. What is to become of the rest of it? bill is_of a temporary character and will only pay for the next Mr. FINLEY. The Postmaster-General will, in his discretion, -fiscal year, while the amendment I offer will be permanent law. make such rules and regulations as will only call for the ex- Now, I ask those who are in favor of doing justice to this large, penditure of $250,000 next year. There is no doubt about that. laboring, faithful, highly efficient class of public servants, if Mr. MACON. Can the gentleman assure me that he has that they wish to do something that will benefit them, that will be information from the department? of a permanent benefit and not a temporary benefit, to vote for Mr. FINLEY. I assure the gentleman that here is the provi- the amendment offered by me, and then they will be can-ying sion in the bill, and the Postmaster-General can not go be- out their wishes in the premises. yond it. Mr. MACON. Mr. Chairman, I had the point of order re- Mr. MACON. My dear sir, we passed a law here a few years served on the paragraph in the bill, and the gentleman from ago that absolutely made it illegal for the head of a department South Carolina assured me that there would be no attempt to to expend any more than was appropriated in an annual appro- change this paragraph if I woula withdraw the point of order. priation bill for the conduct of the affairs of that department, Mr. FINLEY. Mr. Chairman, I insist that I made no such and the gentleman knows that they have exceeded that author- statement to the gentleman from Arkansas. · ity in every instance. l\.Ir. MACON. What did the gentleman say? l\Ir. FINLEY. Not in every instance. I will assure the gen- l\Ir. FINLEY. I said the appropriation would not be in- tleman that under this provision in this bill the Postmaster- creased. General can not expend more than $250,000 next year. I make Mr. MACON. Then there was certainly a mistake about the that statement. matter. Mr. CLINE. Will the gentleman yield for a question? Mr. FINLEY. I want to say that I did not make the mistake Mr. FINLEY. Yes. on my part. . Mr. CLINE. The gentleman says this will not provide for a Mr. MA.CON. I do not know what the gentleman means quarter of the amount. when he says he did not make the mistake, for he assured me Mr. FINLEY. I do not think it will provide for a fifth of it. that if I would withdraw it there would be no increase. l\Ir. CLINE. Does not the gentleman think the postal clerks l\fr. FINLEY. I made no effort to increase it. ought to have the benefit of the information obtained by the Mr. MACON. The gentleman made an effort to increase it in committee that investigated this matter? this way, providing $1 a day instead of 75 cents, and also pro- .Mr. FINLEY. I will say that the matter was investigated by posed to make it permanent law. the committee. I am a member of the committee, and I know Mr. FINLEY. I did attempt to make it permanent law; that what I am talking about. is what I want to do. Mr. CLINE. The beneficiaries of this appropriation will dis- Mr. MA.CON. If the gentleman can afford to do that when cover that there is some uncertainty as to who shall have the he said that he would make no change, all right. benefit of it. Now, the committee must have taken into con- l\Ir. FI1'.T.LEY. If the gentleman can afford to stand up there sideration certain circumstances and conditions under which and say that I did violate my agreement, then he can make the this money should be expended. Would it not be a proper mat- best of it. I only stated to the gentleman that there would be ter of information for the railway postal clerks to have, in order no increase in the appropriation of $250,000. to show how the committee arrived at this amount? The CHAIRMAN. The question is on the amendment offered Mr. FINLEY. I will say to the gentleman that so far as the- by the gentleman from South Carolina. discretion of the Postmaster-General is concerned, and in so The question was taken; and on a division (demanded by l\Ir. far as he is required to make rules and regulations, there is FINLEY) there were-ayes 20, noes 46. 2810 _, CONGRESSIONAH -RECORD- HOUSE. MAROH 5,

So the amendment was rejected. tion of a bridge across the Missouri River at Yankton, S. Dak., The Clerk read as follows: by the Yankton, Norfolk and Southern Railway Company, re­ For acting clerks, in place of clerks or substitutes Injured while on ported the same without amendment, accompanied by a report duty, and to enable the Postmaster-General to pay the sum of $1,000, which shall be exempt from payment of debts of the deceased, to the (No. 680), which said bill and report were referred to the legal representatives of any railway postal clerk or substitute railway House Calendar. postal clerk who s.hall be killed while on duty, or who, being injured Mr. MARTIN of South Dakota, from the Committee on Public while on duty, shall die within one year thereafter as the result of such injury, $100,000. Buildings and Grounds, to which was referred the resolution of the House (H. Res. 398) requesting the Secretary of the Treas­ l\fr. .l.\iANN. Mr. Chairman, I move to strike out the last ury to transmit a statement of all lands and buildings leased Wfil~ , _ by the Government in the District of Columbia, reported the Mr. WEEKS. Mr. Chairman, I move that the committee do same without amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 687), now rise. which said bill and report were referred to the House Calendar. Mr. MANN. I will gladly yield for that purpose. The motion of l\Ir. WEEKS was agreed to; and accordingly the REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PRIVATE BILLS AND committee determined to rise, and the Speaker having resumed RESOLUTIONS. the chair, Mr. LA WREN CE, Chairman of the Committee of the ' Whole House on the state of the Union, reported that that Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, private bills and resolutions committee had had under consideration the post-office appropri­ were severally reported from committees, delivered to the Clerk, ation bill (H. R. 21419) and had come to no resolution thereon. and referred to the Committee of the Whole House, as follows : By Mr. HAUGEN, from the Committee on War Claims, to LEAVE OF ABSENCE. which was referred the bill of the House (H. R. 4747) for the l\Ir. BURGESS, by unanimous consent, was given lea"Ve of ab­ relief of the board of education of the Harpers Ferry school sence for two weeks on account of important business. district of Jefferson County, W. Va., reported the same without Mr. A. MITCHELL PAL::MER, by unanimous consent, was given amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 681), which said bill leave of absence for four days on account of important business. and report were referred to the Private Calendar. ADJOURNMENT, He also, from the same committee, to which was referred Mr. WEEKS". Mr. Speaker, I move that the House do now House bill 9564, reported in lieu thereof a resolution (H. Res. adjourn. 4 3) referring to the Court of Claims the papers in the case of . The motion was agreed to; and accordingly (at 4 o'clock and the heirs of John Fornea, accompanied by a report (No. 683), which said resolution and report were referred to the Private 53 minutes p. m.) the House adjourned until l\1onday next. Calendar. Mr. MORSE, from the Committee on War Claims, to which EXECUTIVE COMMUNICATIONS, ETC. was referred House bill 17 45G, reported in lieu thereof a reso­ Under clause 2 of Rule XXIV, executive communications were lution (H. Res. 484) referring to the Court of Claims the papers taken from the Speaker's table and referred as follows : in the case of Luster P. Chester and Freeland Chester, execu­ 1. A letter from the Secretary of War, transmitting, with a tors of Thomas R. Chester, accompanied by a report (No. 684), letter from the Chief of Engineers, report of examination and which said resolution and report were referred to the Private survey of Bridgeport Harbor, Connecticut (H. Doc. No. 751)­ Calendar. to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors and ordered to be l\Ir. HAUGEN, from the Committee on War Claims, to which printed, with illustrations. was referred House bill 17660, reported in lieu thereof a reso· 2. A letter from the assistant clerk of the Court of Claims, lution (H. Res. 485) referring to the Court of Claims the papers transmitting a copy of the :findings :filed by the court in the case in the case of Mary J. 1\!cGlothlen, accompanied by a report of George N. L. Buyers, administrator of estate of Nelson M. (No. 685), which said resolution and report were referred to Buyers, against The United States (H. Doc. No. 749)-to the the Private Calendar. Committee on War Claims and ordered to be printed. He also, from the same committee, to which was referred 3. A letter from the Acting Secretary of War, transmitting, House bill 22218, reported in lieu there.of a resolution ( H. Res. with a letter from the Chief of Engineers, report of examina­ 4 6) referring to the Court of Claims the papers in the case of tion and survey of the Missouri River at or near Lake Con­ l\Iary A. Haney and Clarence E. Haney, accoll:lpanied by a re­ trary, Missouri (H. Doc. .No. 750)-to the Committee on Rivers port (No. 686), which said resolution and report were referred and Harbors and ordered to be printed. to the Private Calendar. 4. A letter from the Acting Secretary of War, transmitting, - He also, from the same committee, to which was referred with a letter from the Chief of Engineers, report of examination House bill 5375, reported in lieu thereof a resolution (H. Res. and survey of Saco River, Maine (H. Doc. No. 752)-to. the 487) referring to the Court of Claims the papers in the case of Committee on Rivers and Harbors and ordered to be printed, W. H. Francis, accompanied by a report (No. 688), which said with illustrations. · resolution and report were referred to the Private Calendar. He also, from the same committee, to which was referred House bill 5430, reported in lieu thereof a resolution (H. Res. REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC BILLS AND 488) referring to the Court of Claims the papers in the case RESOLUTIONS. of Mumford Smith, executor of James H. Cecil, deceased, ac­ Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, bills and resolutions were sev­ companied by a report (No. 689), which said resolution and erally reported from committees, delivered to the Clerk, and report were referred to the Private Calendar. referred to the several calendars therein named, as follows : He also, from the same committee, to which was referred Mr. HANNA., from the Committee on Indian Affairs, to which House bill 22190, reported in lieu thereof a resolution (H. Res. was referred the bill of the House (H. n. 21904) to authorize 489) referring to the Court of Claims the papers in the case of the survey and allotment of lands embraced w!thin the limits the heirs of Joseph Hemmerback, deceased, accompanied by a of the Fort Berthold Indian Reservation, in the State of North report (No. 690), which said resolution and report were referred Dakota, and the sale and disposition of a portion of the sur­ to the Private Calendar. plus lands after allotment, and making appropriation and pro­ Mr. FERRIS, · from the Committee on the Public Lands, to vision to carry the same into etl'ect, reported the same with which was referred the bill of the Hou e (H. R. 18761) granting amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 692), which said relief to the estate of Patrick H. Handley, reported the same bill and report were referred to the Committee of the Whole without amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 691), which House on the state of the Union. said bill and report were referred to the Private Calendar. Mr. SHEFFIELD, from the Committee on the Judiciary, to which was referred the bill of the House (H. R. 19285) to . . ADVERSE REPORT. amend section 773 of the Revised Statutes, reported the same Under clause 2 of Rule XIII, without amendment, accompanied by a report (No. 678), which Mr. l\IORSE, from the Committee on War Claims, to wblch said bill and report were referred to the House Calendar. was r eferred the bill of the House (H. R. 17802) for the relief Mr. STEVENS of Minnesota, from: the Committee on Inter­ of Harrison Wagner, reported the same adversely, accompanied state and Foreign Commerce, to which was referred the bill by a report (No. 682), which said bill and report were laid on of the Honse (H. "R. 21760) permitting the building of a rail­ road bridge across the Mississippi River at Bemidji., in the the table. State of Minnesota, reported the same with amendment, ac­ companied by a report (No. 679), which said bill and report CHANGE OF REFERENCE. were referred to the House Calendar. Under clause 2 of Rule XXII, committees were discliarged He also, from the same committee, to which was referred the :from the consideration of the following bills, which were re­ bill of the Senate (S. 6229) to extend the time for the comple- ferred a s follows : 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. 2811

A bill (H. R. 14401) granting an increase of pension to Har-] By Mr. BENNET of New York: A bill (H. R. 22391) to fix vey Johnson-Committee on Pensions discharged, and referred the pay of the laborers in the Immigration Service at Ellis to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Island, New York Harbor-to the Committee on Immigration A bill (H. R. 20416) granting a pension to Ruth E. Dietz- and Naturalization. Committee on Invalid Pensions discharged, and referred to the By Mr. BRANTLEY: A bill (H. R. 22392) to provide a site Committee on Pensions. and erect a public building at Quitman-to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. By Mr. McCREDIE: A bill (H. R. 22393) to create a stand­ PUBLIC BILLS, RESOLUTIONS, AND MEMORIALS. ard size of certain fruit boxes for the States of Washington, Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, bills, resolutions, and memo­ Oregon, and Idaho-to the Committee on Agriculture. rials of the following titles were introduced and severally re­ By Mr. LEE: A bill (H. R. 22394) to authorize the adjutant­ ferred as follows : general of the State of Georgia to reimburse the military fund By Mr. BURGESS: A bill (H. R. 22370) to build a post-office of said State from the allotment accruing to the State of Geor­ at Bay City, Tex.-to the Committee on Public Buildings and gia under section 1661, Revised Statutes, as amended-to the Grounds. Committee on Militia. Also, a bill (H. R. 22371) to build a post-office at Cuero, By Mr. ANDREWS: A bill (H. R. 22395) authorizing a bond Tex.-to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. issue of the city of Gallup, N. Mex., for reservoir purposes-to Also, a bill (H. R. 22372) to build a post-office at Yoakum, the Committee on th"e Territories. Tex.-to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. By Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado: Joint resolution (H. J. Res. By Mr. GARDNER of Michigan: A bill (H. R. 22373) for the 164) construing section 6 of the act of May 29, 1908, entitled erection of a post-office building at Albion, Mich.-to the Com­ "An act authorizing a resurvey of certain townships in the State mittee on Public Buildings and Grounds. of Wyoming, and for other purposes "-to the Committee on the By Mr. KENDALL: A bill (H. R. 22374) for the acquisition Public Lands. of n site and the erection thereon of a public building at Colfax, Iowa-to the Committee on Public Buildings and PRIVATE. BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS. Grounds. By Mr. GARNER of Texas: A bill (H. R. 22375) to build a Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, ' private bills and resolutions post-office at Uvalde, Tex.-to the Committee on Public Build­ of the following titles were introduced and severally referred ings and Grounds. as follows : . Also, a bill (H. R. 22376) to build a post-office at Beeville, By Mr. ADAIR: A bill (H. R. 22396) granting an increase of Tex.-to the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. pension te Samuel A. Davis-to the Committee on Invalid Pen­ By Mr. PARKER (by request): A bill (H. R. 22377) to regu­ sions. late the admission of attorneys to practice before the Depart­ Also, a bill (H. R. 22397) granting an increase of pension to ment of the Interior, and for other purposes-to the Committee Benjamin Copper-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. on the Judiciary. By Mr. ANDREWS: A bill (H. R. 22398) granting a pen­ By Mr. RODENBERG (by request): A bill (H. R. 22378) sion of Pedro Pena-to the Committee on Pensions. for the incorporation of the United States Shippers' Protective By Mr. ANDRUS: A bill (H. R. 22399) granting an increase Association, and to create a freight-claims clearing house of pension to Mercy M. Sutorius-to the Committee on Invalid for the prompt adjustment of freight claims-to the Committee Pensions. . on Interstate and Foreign Commerce. By Mr. ANTHONY: A bill (H. R. 22400) for the relief of By Mr. PARKER (by request) : A bill (H. R. 22379) to Doctors Langworthy & Langworthy-to the Committee on Claims. amend section 819 of the Revised Statutes of the United States­ By Mr. ASHBROOK: A bill (H. R. 22401) granting an in­ to the Committee on the Judiciary. crease of pension to Elizabeth Staneart-to the Committee on By Mr. BURLESON: A bill (H. R. 22380) to provide for the Invalid Pensions. · erection of a public building at Brenham, Tex.-to the Com­ By Mr. BAilCHFELD: A bill (H. R. 22402) granting an in­ mittee on Public Buildings and Grounds. crease of pension to Philemon H. McCracken-to the Commit­ By Mr. RAINEY: A bill (H. R. 22381) to provide for a site tee on Invalid Pensions. and public building at Jerseyville, 111.-to the Committee on By Mr. BARCLAY: A bill (H. R. 22403) granting a pension Public Buildings and Grounds. to George M. Maginnis-to the Committee on Pensions. By Mr. FOSTER of Vermont: A bill (H. R. 22382) to provide By Mr. BARNARD: A bill (H. R. 22404) granting a pension for the erection of a post-office building at Bennington, Vt.-to to Harry E. Lane-to the Committee on Pensions. the Committee on Public Buildings and Grounds. By Mr. BURLESON: A bill (H. R. 22405) for the relief of J. H. Collett-to the Committee on Claims. By Mr. THISTLEWOOD: A bill (H. R. 22383) to provide By Mr. BYRNS: A bill (H. R. 22406) granting an increase of for the improvement of the Cairo (Ill.) Harbor-to the Com­ pension to Patrick Clark-to the Committee. on Invalid Pensions. mittee on Rivers and Harbors. Also, a bill (H. R. 22407) granting an increase of pension to · By Mr. TAYLOR of Colorado: A bill (H. R. 22384) to amend Theodore L. Mason-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. an act entitled "An act to authorize entry of the public lands Also, a bill (H. R. 22408) granting an increase of pension to by incorporated cities and towns for cemetery and park pur­ Hezekiah A very-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. poses," approved September 30, 1890 (26 Stat., p. 502)-to the By Mr. CANNON: A bill (H. R. 22409) granting an increase Committee on the Public Lands. of pension to William W. Purcell-to the Committee on Invalid By Mr. MONDELL: A bill (H. R. 22385) authorizing the Pensions. reconveyance to the United States of land occupied or needed Also, a bill (H. R. 22410) granting an increase of pension to in carrying out the provisions of the act of June 17, 1902, and Noah Smith-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. the selection of lands in lieu thereof-to the Committee on the By Mr. CLARK of Missouri: A bill (H. R. 22411) granting Public Lands. an increase of pension to Rachel A. Chadwick-to the Commit­ By Mr. CAMPBELL: A bill (H. R. 22386) to amend section tee on Invalid Pensions. 812 of the Code of Laws for the District of Columbia-to the By Mr. CLINE: A bill (H. R. 22412) granting an increase of ·committee on the District of Columbia. pension to Lewis Rowe-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. By Mr. HAWLEY: A bill (H. R. 22387) to declare the OlalJa By Mr. COOPER of Wisconsin: A bill (H. R. 22413) grant­ Slough, in Lincoln County, in Oregon, nonnavigable-to the ing an increase of pension to Theodore Nicolai-to the Com­ Committee on Interstare and Foreign Commerce. mittee on Invalid Pensions. By Mr. ' COWLES: A bill (H. R. 22414) granting an increase By Mr. LANGLEY: A bill (H. R. 22388) for the construction of pension to Eli H. Graybeal-to the Committee on Invalid of a bridge across Station Camp Creek, Estill County, Ky.­ Pensions. to the Committee on Rivers and Harbors. By Mr. CROW: A bill (H. R. 22415) granting an increase of By Mr. GRAHAM of Pennsylvania: 4 bill (H. R. 22389) to pension to Samuel Spires-to the Committee on Invalid Pen­ provide for the purchase of a site for a public building at sions. Tarentum, Pa.-to the Committee on Public Buildings and Also, a bill (H. R. 22416) granting an increase of pension to Grounds. Andrew J. Pride-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. By Mr. SMITH of Michigan: A bill (H. R. 22390) to require Also, a bill (H. R. 22417) granting an increase of pension to all companies doing telegraph business in the District of Colum­ James A. Morris-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. bia to pay a tax on their gross receipts-to the Committee on Also, a bill (II. R. 22418) granting an increase of pension to the District of Columbia. Samuel H. Lance-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. 2812 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-HOUSE. MARCH 5,

Also, a bill (H. R. 22419) granting a pension to L H. Handy­ PETITIONS, ETC. tc> the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 22420) granting an increase of pension to Under cla~se 1 of Rule xxn. petitions and papers were laid Robert H. Boon-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. on the Clerk s desk and referred. as follows: By Mr. D~WER: A bill (H. R. 22421) granting an increase By .Mr. AN_DERSON ~ Petition of the Colonel George Crogan of pensjon to John I. Barrows-to the Committee on Invalid Cba~ter, ~gamst repea~ of section 40 of immigration law as Pensions. provided m the Hayes immigration bill-to the Committee on By Mr. FORNES: A bill (H. R. 22422) granting a pension to Immigration and Naturalization. - Emma H. Tompkins-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Af.so, petition. of Samuel G. McClure, of YOlmgstown, Ohio, By .Mr. GRAHAM of Pennsylvania: A bill (H- R. 22423) agamst Ho?Se bill 281-to the Committee on Agriculture. granting an increase of pension to Sylvester H. Harris-to the Also, petition of Charles Woodward, secretary of the United Committee on Invalid Pensions. States ~-Letter Carriers' Assotjation of Chicago, ill, favoring Also, a bill ( H. R. 22424) removing the charge of desertion Senate bill 3638-previously referred to the Committee on the from the military record of William H. H. Bennett-to the Com­ Post-Office and Post-Roads, reference changed to the Committee mittee on Military Affairs. on Claims. - . . · By ~Ir. HULL of Tennessee: A bill (H. R. 22425) granting a By M~. ANDRUS : Petition of Sing Sing (N. Y.) Council, No. pension to Benjamin F. Sloan-to the Committee on Pensions. 311, Kmghts of Columbus favoring House bill 17543-to the Also, a bill (H. R. 22426) granting a pension to Elizabeth Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. Merlett-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. · Also, ~tition of White Plains (N. Y.) Chapter, Daughters of Also, a bill ( H. R. 22427) granting an increase of pension to ~e American Revolution, for retention of Division of Informa­ James H. Dinning-to the Committee on Pensions. tion in the Immigration Bureau-to the Committee on Immi- By Mr. KELIHER: A bill (H. . R. 22428) granting a pension gration and Naturalization. · to Margaret Gately-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. · . By Mr. ANTHONY: Petition of Union No. 915, United By Mr. LANGHAM: A bill (H. R. 22429) granting an in­ Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America of Horton .crease of pension to James R:. A.dams-to the Committee on Kans., favoring an eight-hour workday on all wo~k done fo~ Invalid Pensions. the Government by contract or subcontract (H. R. 15441)-to By Mr. LANGLEY: A bill (H. R. 22430) granting an in­ the Committee on Labor. · . crease of pension to Jacob Sanders-to the Committee ·on In­ Also, petition of citizens of Effingham, Kans., for law to valid Pensions. regulate interstate shipment of intoxicating liquors-to the AlS?,. a bill (H. R. 22431) granting an increase of pension Committee on AlcoholiG Liquor Traffic. to William Endicott-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. By Mr. ASHBROOK: Petition of United States Ex-Letter Also, a bill (H. R. 22432) granting a pension to Solomon Carriers' Association, :tor Senate bill 3638 and House bill 15414 Hogg-to the Committee on Pensions. to pay overtime clatms-to the Committee on the Post-Office and By Mr. LEVER: A bill (H. R. 22433) for the relief of E. P. Post-Roads. Gibson-to the Committee on War Claims. ~Y Mr. BARCHFELD ~ Paper to accompany bill for relief of Also, a bill (H. R. 22434) for the relief of F. F. Felder-to Philemon H. McCracken-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. the Committee on War Claims. By Mr. BARTLETT of Georgia: Petition of Savannah Board Also, a bill (H. R. 22435) for the relief of Polly Hayes-to of Trade, against House bill 16362, ship-subsidy bill-to the the Committee on War Claims. Committee on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries. Loyal Also~ a bill (H. R. 22436) for the relief of the heirs of Louisa Also, petition of E. W. Warren Council, No. 59, Ac­ Hook,. deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. counts, of Macon, Ga~, in support of House bill 17543, relative Also, a bUl ( H. R. 22437) for the relief of the heirs of John to advertisements in magazines of fraternal orders-to the Harman. deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. Also, a blll (H. R. 22438) for the relief of the heirs of Na­ By .Mr. BURLEIGH: Petition of Belgrade (Me.) Grange, No. . thaniel Kleckley, deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. 292, Patrons of Husbandry, for a national public health bu­ Als<>, a bill (H. R. 22439) for the relief of the heirs of Harriet reau-to the Committee on Agriculture. - Holman, deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. By 1\fr. BYRNS : Papers to accompany bills for relief· of Also, a bill ( H. R. 22440) for the relief of the heirs of Eras­ Theodore L. Mason, Hezekiah A very, and Patrick Clark-to the mus Harsey. deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 22441) for the relief of the heirs of John By l\fr. CLINE: Paper to accompany bill for relief of John c. W. Brown, deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. Phillips-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 22442) for the relief of the heirs of A. J. By .Mr. ELLIS: Paper to accompany bill for relief of John Geiger, deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. Prater-to the Committee on Pensions. Also, a bill (H. R. 22443) for the relief of the heirs of Daniel By Mr. ENGLEBRIGHT: Petition of William Roberts and 48 Drafts, deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. others, of Scott Valley Dairymen's Association, against the Also~ a 'bill (H. R. 22444) for the relief of the heirs of Jesse Burleson Oleomargar~e bill-to the Committee on Agriculture. Ban.knight, deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. By Mr. FOELKER: Petition of James H. Eason and others Also. a bill (H. R. 22445) for the relief of the heirs of Joshua favoring an eight-hour law on government works (H. n: Kyser, deceased-to the Committee on War Claims. 15441)-to the Committee on Labor. By Mr. LINDSAY: A bill (H. R. 22446) granting an increase By !\-fr. FORNES:· Petition of legislature of the State of New of pension t<> Amalie J. Rhinow-to the Committee on Invalid York, for building at least one battle ship at the Brooklyn Navy­ Pensions. Yard-to the Committee on Naval Affairs. By Mr. LOWDEN: A bill (H. R. 22447) granting an increase By .Mr. FULLER: Petition of Grand Army of the Republic, of pension to Dora Friedrich-to the Committee on Invalid Department of Illinois, protesting against the proposed consoli­ dation of I>ension agencies-to the Committee on Appropriations. Pensions. Also, petition of Mendota Council of United Commercial By l\fr. l\fAGUffiE of Nebraska: A bilI (H. R. 22448) grant­ Travelers of America, of Mendota, Ill., favoring the passage of ing an increase of pension to William F. Trilofl'-to the Com­ the Coudrey bill (H. R. 1491) concerning baggage and excess mittee on Invalid Pensions. baggage, etc.-to the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Com­ By Mr. A. MITCHELL PALMER: A bill (H. R. 22449) merce. granting an increase of pension to Nathan Hufford-to the Com­ Also, petition of Hon. Frank S. Dickson, adjutant-general of · mittee on Invalid Pensions. the State of Illinois, favoring the passage of the Steenerson By l\Ir. PEARREJ: A bill (H. R. 22450) granting a pension bill (H. R. 21829) to amend section 1661, Revised Statutes of to Howard E. Nusbaum-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. the United States, as amended-to the Committee on Militia. By l\lr. RAINEY: A bill (H. R. 22451) granting an increase Also, petition of Julius N. Avendorph, of Chicago, Ill., favor­ of pension to Joseph Dugdell-to the Committee on Invalid ing the holding of a national negro exposition to mark the Pensions. fiftieth anniversary of the emancipation of the negroes from By Mr. RHINOCK: A bill (H. R. 22452) granting a pension to slavery-to the Committee on Industrial Arts and Expositions. John W. Thompson-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. Also, petition of boards of county supervisors of Illinois By Mr. STERLING: A bill (H. R. 22453) granting an in­ favoring the passage of the Graff bill (H. R. 18962) for th~ crease of pension to Samuel W. Evans-to the Committee on relief of certain counties in the State of Illinois, etc.-to the Invalid Pensions. Committee on the Public Lands. .Also, a bill (H. R. 22454) granting an increase of pension to By Mr. GOULDEN= Petition of American Enameled Brick Samuel .Mishler-to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. and Tile Company, of New York City, against the publicity- 1910. CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE5 . 2813 feature clause in. the corporatlon.-tax la.w-to the, Committee on ·and commerce against unlawful restraint& and monopolies-to Ways and :Means. ' the Committe.e on the Judiciary. Also,, petifum of American Embassy Association,. for- embassy Also, petition of. W. S. Hancock Councn. Ko~ 20, Junior Order residents-to the Committee- on Foreign. A.1Iairs. United. American Mechanics,, of Los Angeles, Cal., favoring Also, petition of Jacob Christmann, of New York City, against: .HOuse bill 1:3'~04. the Hayes immigration bin-to the Committee. House bill 12343,. appropiriaticm f' the for the Humphrey bill, favoring ship snbfildy-to the Committe.e . Committee on Invalid Pension~ reference changed to the Com- on the Merchant Marine and Fisheries-. mittee on Claims._ By Mr. GRAHAM: of Pennsylvania: Petition of Pittsburg Pro- By Mr. REEDER: Petition of 300 citizens O\:"el" 21 years of vision and Packing Compnny, favoring bill to repeal the present age of the Sixth Congressional District of Kansas, praying for oleomargRrine law--to the Committee on Agricultur~ protection of prohibition. territory-to. the Committee on Alco­ By ~fl'"- GRAHAM of Illinois: Petition of Springfield Woman's holic Liquor TrafficL Club,. agninst u:s-e of the Retch Hetchy Valley to supply water A.1$0, petition of citizens of Kansas, against shipping liquor !o:r San Francisco-to tlle Committee> &n the Public· Lands. into prohibition States-to the Committee on Alcoholic Liquor By Mr. GRONNA: Petition of citizens of P:ie-rce Ccn.mty, Traffic. N~ Dak., against :my change in present oleomargarine law-to By l\Ir. RHINOCK: Petition of citizens of. Kentucky, fav<>r- the Committee on: Agriculture.. ing an eight-hour law on government works (H. R. 15441)-to By Mr:. HANNA.: Petition of citizens of North Dakota, for the Committee. on Labor. House bills 17, 1011,. 2137,. 2100, 2167, 2172, 4321, and 5154, or By 1\Ir. SABATH: Petition of Henryk Sienkiswicz Society~ of any other bill of like text and; effect-to the Committee on Chicago, m., against the Hayes immigration bill-to the Com- .Alcoholic- Liquor Tralfic-. mittee on Immigration and Naturalization. By Mr. HENRY of Connecticut: Petition ot La Societe des Also, petition of :rn. G. Wilson, o.f Chicago, Ill.,. protesting Artisans Can.adieus Fran~ais Council, No.139, of BristoJ, Conn., against legisiation to increase the rate on- second-class mail for House bill 17509-to the Committee on the Post-Office and matter-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads.. Post-Roads. By M'r. SHEFFIELD: Petition of Cheney Woman's Christian By Mr. HINSHAW:, Petition_ of Board of Park Commission- Temperance Union of Rhode Isiand., of Pawtucket, R. I., for the ers of Omaba,. Nebr., for an appropriation of $250,000 to pro- Ol~ott and' H.:'Ullilton bills for protection of women-to the Com­ tect Omaha, South Omaha, Florence> and Dundee from im- mittee on the District of Columbia. pending change in the course ot the Missouri RiveE'-to the Also-, petition of Cheney Woman's Christian Temperanc~ Committee on Rivers and Harbors:L Union of Rhode Island, of Puwtucket, R.. L~ for the Owen- By Mr. HOWELL of New Jersey:- Petition of James n-. Cur- Hamilton bill, a 5-mile prohibition zone around all Indian ra­ tis,, of New York,. relative to the requil::ement of life-preser-vers ervations:-to the Committee on Indian. Affairs. in motor boats (S. 51.43)-to the Committee- on the l\IHchant Also, petition of Branch No. 88,- La Societ~ des Artisans Muine and Fisheries. Canadiens Fran~ais, of Natick, R. I.,. favor-ing House bill 1750fr, Also, petition of Bayard Post, N(}. 8, Grand Army of the. Re- and against increase in postage on second-class mail matter­ public, of Trenton, N. J., :favoring House bill 13383, :relative to to the Committee on the Post-Offiee and Post-Roads... retirement of Gen. Daniel E. Sickles'-to the Committee on Aisgr petition of T. F« Buchli and 65 other r..esident& of Military Affairs. Rh-0de Island, for: House bill 15441. favoring an eight-hoW' By M.F. HOUSTON: Paper to accompany bill for relief of workday on work done for the Government by contract or sub~ Sophia C. Neil-to the Committee on Pensions. contract--to- the Committee on Labor~ Also, paper to accompany bill for relief of Charles M. Adcock- Also papers to accm:ni>any bills for relief of Mrs:_ Alice Case to the Committee on Invalid Pensions'. and C~the.Tine Feeley-to the- Committee on Invalid Pensions~ Also, papers. to accompany House bill 3672, to erect a. post- By Mr~ STERLING:: Paper to accompany hill for relief of office building in Tullahoma, Tenn.-to the Committee on Puhlic Jennettie G. Clary and David H. Moore-to the Committee on Buildings and Grounds. Pensions.. By Mr. KENNEDY of Ohio: Petition of Manufacturers' Asso- ciation of Ohio,. against publicity clause of the rorporation-tax law-to the Commtttee vn Ways and Means. SENATK Also petition of Junior Order United American Meehanics, of Canton, Ohio~ demanding immediate report of the Immigra­ Mo:NDAY, March 7, 1910 .. tion Commission-to the Committee on Immigration and Natu­ Prayer by the Chaplain, Rev. Ulysses G. B. Pierce,. D. D. ralization By l\fr. KINKEAD of New Jersey: Petition of Carron Coun­ NAMING A PRESIDING OFFICER. cil,. No. 1378., Knights o:fl Columbus,. for House. bill 17543-to the Mr. GALLINGER. called tlie Senate to order and directed the Committee on the. Post-Office and Post-Roads. Secretary to read a communication from the President pro tem­ Also, petition of James l\fuJdoon and others, favoring House pore of the Senate, which waS" read as follows: bill 15441, for an eight-ham day on. govemmeut works-to the PxESTDENT· PRO TEMPOBE, UNITED STATES SENATE, Committee on Labor.. Marnh 'T, 1910. By Mr. McMORRAN: Petition of .Alexander McComb Chapter, Daughters of the American Revolution, for retention of the Division of Information in the. Bureau ot Immigration and Natu- ralization-to the Committee on. Immigration and Naturaliza- tion. By l\fr. MACON: Paper to accompany bill for relief oi William R. Bateman-to the· Committee on Invalid Pensions. THE JOURNAL.. By Mr. MORGAN of Oklahoma.: Petition. by sundry citizens of Oklahoma, opposing the establishment of a postal savings -The Secretary proceeded to read the Journal of tiie proceed­ bank-to the Committee on the Post-Office and Post-Roads. ings of Thursday last, when, on request of 1\Ir. W ARB.EN,. and By l\fr. NEEDHAM: Petition of California Harbor.- No.. 15, by unanimous consent, the further reading was dispensed with, of San Francisco,. Cal., favoring House bill 20153,. to protect trade and the- Journal was appro>e.d.