1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 1827" REPORTS OF COMMITTEES ON PUBLIC BILLS AND Spanish-American War; to the Committee on. Invalid Pensions. RESOLUTIONS 498. By Mr. GRIEST: Resolution of Colerain Grange No. ; · Under clause 2, of XIII, 1667, Lancaster County, Pa., urging the adoption of the deben- J Mr. SNELL: Committee on Rules. H. Res. 46. A resolution ture plan as a pa1t of the farm relief legislation; to the Com- providing for the consideration of H. R. 2667, the tariff bill; mittee on Agriculture. 1 499. By Mr. McCORMACK of Massachusetts: Petition of New withcut amendment (Rept. No. 10). Referred to the House 1 Calendar. England Shoe and Leather Association, Thomas F. Anderson, · secretary, Boston, Mass., urging protective duties on boots, PUBLIC BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS shoes, and leather; to the Committee on Ways and Means. Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, public bills and resolutions wel'e introduced and severally referred as follows: SENATE By Mr. LEHLBACH: A bill (H. R. 3294) to provide for the FRIDAY, May ~4, 1929 reincorporation of the Rho Sigma fraternity ; to the Committee on the District of Columbia. (Leuislatit·e day of Thursday, , 1929) Bv Mr. SIMMONS: A bill (H. R. 3295) to restore officers The Senate met at 12 o'clock meridian, on the expiration of now· on ilie active list of the Regular Army, formerly retired for the recess. physical disability by retiring boards, to places on the promotion Mr. JOHNSON obtained the floor. list and relative list they would have had if they had not been :M:r. FESS. Mr. President, I suggest the absence of a quorum. retired; to the Committee on Military Affairs. The VICE PRESIDENT. The clerk will call the roll. By Mr. STEELE: A bill (H. R. 3296) to amend section 15 The legislative clerk called the roll, and the following Senators of the interstate commerce act, as amended; to the Committee on answered to their names : Interstate and Foreign Commerce. Allen Fletcher King Smoot Ashurst Frazier La Follette Steck Barkley George McKellar Steiwer MEMORIALS Bingham Gillett McMaster Stephens Under clause 3 of Rule XXII, memorials were presented and Black Glenn McNary Swanson Blaine Goff Metcalf Thomas, Idaho referred as follows : Blease Goldsborough Norbeck Thomas, Okla. Memorial of the State Legislature of the State of Wisconsin, Borah Greene Norris Townsend urging Congress of the United States to enact during this special Bratton Hale Nye Trammell Brookhart Harris Oddie Tydings session the necessary legislation which will revise the tariffs on Broussard Harrison Overman Tyson farm products and products that enter into the manufacture of Burton Hastings Patterson Vandenberg Capper Hatfield Pine Wagner substitutes for farm products, such as oil and fats and copra, Caraway Hawes Pittman Walcott to conform to the said schedules presented to the Congress by Connally Hayden Ransdell Walsh, Mass. the National :Milk Producers' Federation; to the Committee on Copeland Hebert Reed Walsh, Mont. Couzens Heflin Robinson, Ind. Warren Ways and Means. Cutting Howell Sackett Waterman By 1\fr. COOPER of Wisconsin: Memorial of the Legislature Dale Johnson Schall Watson of the State of Wisconsin, memorializing the Congress of the Deneen Jones Sheppard Wheeler Dill Kean Shortridge United States to increase the duty on farm products and prod­ Edge Kendrick Simmons ucts that enter into the manufacture of substitutes for farm Fess Keyes Smith products, such as oils and fats and copra; to the Committee on The VICE PRESIDENT. Eighty-nine Senators have an­ Ways and Means. swered to theh~ names. A quorum is present. By Mr. WOLVERTON of New Jersey: Memorial of the Legis­ BUSINESS OF THE SESSION lature of the State of New Jersey, recommending to the Con­ gress of the United States that legislation providing for the l\lr. WATSON. Mr. President, I have been asked by many regulation of interstate motor bus passenger transportation be Senators and doubtless shall be asked by many others as to immediately enacted; to the Committee on Interstate and For­ whether or ·not there.. is likelihood of a session to-morrow. I eign Commerce. want to take the liberty of e:q}laining the situation as I view, it from the floor. The pending bill, providing -for the fifteenth decennial census· PRIVATE BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS and apportionment of representation in the House, has not had Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, private bills and resolutions a fair chance· for full -discussion. So many extraneous matters were introduced and severally referred as follows: have been brought in from day to day that but a short time- By Mr. PALMER: A bill (H. R. 3297) granting a pension to comparat~vely has been given to a discussion of that measure, George Goetze; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. important as it is. Unless some satisfactory progress is made Also, a bill (H. R. 3298) granting a pension to Pencela Shaw; to-day with the debate, to the exclusion.. of other matters, and to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. unless and until some arrangement for a final vote shall have. Also, a bill (H. R. 3299) granting a pension to Wilmina: been entered into, it occurs to me there is nothing. else -for. the Campbell; to the Committee on ·Invalid Pensions. Senate to do in all good conscience but to meet to-morrow. · By Mr. SHREVE: A bill (H. R. 3300) granting an increase · Furthermore, I warit to make another statement, with the of pension to Anna Katherine Pierce; to the Committee on- permission of the Senator from California. With but rare ex­ Invalid Pensions. ceptions. the Members of this body are anxious for an earlY. Also, a bill (H. R. 3301) granting an increase of. pension to adjournment or re-cess, as occasion -shall determine; That can Margaret C. Hotchkiss; to the Comm.ittee on Invalid:- Pensions.- not be done howe\Ter until the Senate shall have finally ·dis­ Also, a bill (H. R. 3302) for the relief of Lorenzo E. Leonard ; posed of t~ - farm·· rellef ·bill and referred the tariff bill to the to the Committee on Military Affairs. Committee on Finance, and the House shall have disposed of Also,.. a bill (H. R. 3303) granting a pension _to Michael the bill now before the Senate; because if it be not passed Sheridan ; to the Committee on Pensions. before a recess is taken there is no use to pass it at all. By Mr. WINGO: A bill (H. R. 3304) granting an increase of Mr. President and Senators, the House has arranged to vote pension to Martha A. Minton; to the Committee on Invalid on the tariff bill on Tuesday. Therefore, if we expect an early Pensions. adjournment or recess after the reference of that bill t.o the By Mr. WYANT: A bill (H. R. 3305) granting a pension to Committee on Finance the Senate must dispose of the pending Lovina Smith; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. measure at a very eariy date in order that the House may deal Also, a bill (H. R. 3306) granting a pension to Ida l\lay with it before it takes a recess. So far as I am concerned, after Jones; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. having consulted with the Senator from California [Mr. JoHN- Also a bill (H. R. 3307) granting an increase of pension to soN] and the Senator from Michigan [Mr. VANDENBERG], I Martha J. McLaughlin; to the Committee on Invalid Pensions. shall insist on a session to-morrow unless some arrangement shall have been made to take a final vote. PETITIONS, ETC. l\Ir. HARRISON. Mr. President-- Under clause 1 of Rule XXII, petitions and papers were laid The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California on the Clerk's desk and referred as follows: yield to the Senator from Mississippi? 4W. By Mr. FITZPATRICK: Petition of the Common Council Mr. JOHNSON. I yield. of the city of l\Iount Vernon, N. Y., approving Senate bills 476 Mr. HARRISON. I want to ask the Senator from Indiana if and 477, providing for the revision and equalization of the rate he does not think the farm-relief legislation should be disposed of pensions _of the veterans of the Civil War and providing of before any recess of the Congress shall be taken? further relief in the way of pensions to the veterans of. the Mr. WATSON. I do. 1828" CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE Mr. HARRISON. Does not the Senator think that the con­ ers will permit tlie House to vote on the debenture plan as an amend­ ferees on the part of the House should take the bill to the ment to the tariff bill. Since the taritr bill originated in the Hou e, the House and permit the membership of that body to vote on the proposal satisfies the House's argument as to its constitutional pre- debenture plan? . rogative. ' Mr. W .A TSON. That is for the Senator from Oregon [Mr. Nevertheless the Republican leaders in the IIouse are fighting the pro­ McNARY] and the conferees on the part of the Senate to posal. They do not wish to have a vote on debentures. They do not determine~ say why. But everyone knows why. :Members of the IIouse come up Mr. HARRISON. If we read the papers correctly, the House for reelection in 1930. The debentures are immensely unpopular with conferees are insisting upon action. protected manufacturers and immensely popular with the more impor­ Mr. WATSON. That is for the conferees to determine, I will tant groups of 1'armers. The leaders of the IIouse know that to risk a say to my friend from Mississippi. It is a matter into which I vote is to put many of their followers in a position where they are have not entered at all. damned it they vote yes and damned if they do not. To avoid this they Mr. NYE. Mr. President-- are resorting to every !rind of constitutional and parliamentary device The VIC)D PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California they can think of. yield to the Senator froin North Dakota? The Senate ought to stn.nd firm. Although we do not favor the export Mr. JOHNSON. I yield. bounty, the argument for embodying it in the tari1l' bill and having a Mr. NYE. In view of the announcement made this morning test of opinion on the whole business seems to us unanswerable. There by the Senator from Indiana, I should like to make inquiry as are excellent reasons for accepting the tariff plus the bounty. ·There to whether or not there is any program in contemplation to are excP.llent reasons for rejecting the tariff plus the bounty. But there take a recess of the Senate prior to an opportunity being af­ is no reason, not arising from sectional and class selfishness, for talring forded to consider the immigration question? the tari1l' without the bounty. Mr. WATSON. The Senator is asking that question of me? The matter goes to the very root of the protective system, and those Mr. NYE. I am. . who deny it must set themselves up against Alexander Hamilton, the Mr. WATSON. When that time comes it is a matter which father of protection and the founder of the Republican Party. In Ham­ may be determined by the Senate itself. I have talked with ilton's report On Manufactures, which was issued in 1791, the question the Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. -REED] about it and I think, now before Congress was put clearly: without quoting him directly, that he has no determined views "Duties of this nature [protective] evidently amount to a virtual on that point one way or· the other. However, that is for him bounty on the domestic fabrics; since, by enhancing the charges on for­ ~g~ . eign articles, they enable the national manufacturers to undersell all Mr. REED. Mr. President-- their foreign competitors." 'l'he VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California Hamilton then goes on to point out the difference between producers yield to the Senator from Pennsylvania? for the home market and_ producers (like the farmers) for a world - Mr. JOHNSON. I yield. market: Mt·. REED. I do not see any reason why the joint resolu­ "It can not escape notice that a duty upon the importation <>f an tion of the Senator from North Dakota should not be taken up. article can no otherwise aid the domestic production of it than by It ought to be debated for a couple of days, but I should think giving the latter greater advantag~s in the home market. It can have that not more than two days' debate would be necessary. no influence upon the advantageous sale of the article produced in for~ Mr. NYE. I think so. eign markets-no tendency, therefore, to promote its exportation." Mr. BORAH. l\fr. President-- This is exactly the position of the farmers who argue that a tariff by The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California itself can not help them to deal with their exportable surplus. Ilamilton yield to the Senator from Idaho? recognized that under a protective system there was bound to be such :61r. JOHNSON. I yield. a conflict of interest between manufacturers for the home market and Mr. BORAH. I do not desire to discourage the idea of an producers of raw material for the world ID'arket as we have beheld these adjournment or a recess, but we have been here a considerable many years now in the agitation of the farm bloc. He recognized what time, and so far we have accomplished nothing. I take it, alleged H~iltonians like Mr. Hoover and Mr. Mellon refuse to recog­ therefore, that we will not recess until we do accomplish some­ nize, that if there •were to be Government bounties to the domest ic thing. There are several bills that ought to be considered and manufacturer there would have also to be bounties to the exporting passed, which it will take considerable time to dispose of. In farmers. So, he said that- planning for a reces we ought to plan to clean up the calendar. " The true way to conciliate these two interests is to lay a duty on Mr. JONES. Mr. President-- foreign manufacture of the material, the growth of which is desired to The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California be encouraged, and to apply the produce of that duty, by way of bounty, yield to the Senator from Wa hington? either upon the production of the material itself or upon its manufac­ Mr. JOHNSON. I yield. . ture at home, or upon both. In this di position of the thing the manu­ Mr. J01\TES. I also want to say that I propose to do every­ facturer commences his enterprise upon every advantage which is thing I pos ibly can before we take a recess to have the Senate attainable as to quantity or price of the raw mc:aterial; and the farmer, act upon the proposed change in the rules relative to executive if the bounty be immediately to him, is enabled by it to enter into a sessions. successful competition with the foreign material" Mr. COPELAND. Mr. President-- There is then the most excellent authority ·to which a Republican The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California can appeal for the soundness of the principle of debentures as part of a yield to the Senator from New York? protective tari.fl'. Where Hamilton differed both from the tariff Repub­ :Mr. JOHNSON. I yield. licans of the present day and the debenture Republicans was in his Mr. COPELA~"D. As bearing somewhat on the matter under belief that the whole system of bounties, tariff duties, and export discussion, I a ·k unanimous consent that an editorial appearing " debentures " alike should be regarded as a temporary timulus to in the New York World this morning may be printed in the "new undertakings," and not as a permanent system. RECORD. It is a very interesting editorial entitled "A Great Answering tbe objection that bounties " enrich particular classea at Issue Has Been Raised," and is so striking that I think the Sen­ the expense of the community," and that they have ' 1 an appearance of ators generally should have an opportunity to read it in connec­ giving away the public money without an i.IItmediate consideration," he tion with the debate which bas taken place. argued that there was no more objection to a bounty than to a tariff The VICE PRESIDENT. Without objection, it is so ordered. and that both were temporarily justified : The editorial is as follows : 11As often as a duty upon a foreign article makes an addition to its price it causes an extra expense to the community for the benefit of the [From the New York World, Friday, May 24, 1929] domestic manufacturer. A bounty does no more. But it is the interest A GREAT ISSUE HAS BEEN RAISED of the society in each case to submit to the temporary expen e, which is The Republican leaders of the Honse are quite evidently opposed not more than compensated by an increase of indusb·y and wealth, by an. merely to the debenture scheme but even more to anything which will augmentation o"f resources and independence, and by the circumstances compel them to stand up in public and be counted on this scheme. This of eventual cheapness." is quite plainly the cause of the dea(Uock in the conference between the It is difficult to see bow the principles nt stake in the present con­ two branches of Congress. troversy at Washington could be stated more clearly or more autholi­ It will be recalled that the House has passed a farm relief bill and tatively. It is clear that, once you accept the premise that the protec­ that when a similar bill passed the Senate there was added to it an tive system is to the interest of the Nation, no objection can be raised amendment, called the debenture plan, wbich provided in substance for in law or in equity to what the farm bloc demand. They can say with an export bounty on agricultural products. The House has taken the a clear conscience that, following Alexander Hamilttiginating it Under the Constitution, all reve­ benefits. nue measures must originate in the House. The question is arguable. It thus becomes plain that the farmer's discontent, which for a gen­ The Senate has, however, o1l'ered to yield, provided the Republican lead- eration has dissipated itself in fantastic or unworkable schemes, ranging 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 1829 from free silver to the equalization fee, has at last crystallized upon a association, who is'hereby made an ex officio member of said committee, program which derives directly from the protective system itself. The are invested with plenary power to take any and all such steps and principle of the export bounty may be ignored by maneuvering in this to do any and all things that they may deem necessary and expedient Congress. But it has behind it a force which will compel national atten­ for the purpose of perfecting and carrying on the work of this asso­ tion such as nothing else has had which has come fromt the West in ciation, and to accomplish the purposes for which this organization is this generation. formed, and to this end said committee shall have power to elect such officers as may be deemed necessary and to provide what their duties MESSAGE FBOM THE HOUSE shall be, and to adopt by-laws to govern this association until other A message n·om the Rouse of Representati-res by Mr. Halti­ and different rules and by-laws may be adopted at a subsequent meet­ gan, one of its clerks, announced that the House had passed ing of this organization, to be called by the president whenever he may the bill (S. 616) to authorize the Secretary of War to lend see proper ; be it further War Department equipment for use at the world jamboree of Resolved, That said executive committee, together with the president the Boy Scouts of America. of the association, are hereby directed to meet with the Mississippi INV~TION OF RUBEN ZERTUCHE Flood Control Association at Memphis, Tenn., soon to be called in its regular annual business session by its president, W. H. Dick, and to The VICE PRESIDENT laid before the Senate a communica­ seek membership in and solicit the assistance of said association in tion from Ruben Zertuche, of Saltillo, Coahuila, , rela­ securing legislation by Congress that will afford us protection or relit>f tive to the solicitation of letters patent for a power machine from the damages that we are suffering, and that they be directed to invented by him, whieh, with the accompanying correspondence, present to ' said association such amendments to said flood control act was referred to the Committee on Foreign Relations. of 1928 for its adoption as may be necessary to secure the desired MISSISSIPPI FLOOD CONTROL relief ; be it further 1\fr. TYSON. Mr. President, I send to the desk and ask to Resolved, That a copy of these resolutions be furnished by the secre­ have printed in the RECORD certain resolutions adopted at a tary of this meeting to the Senators and Representatives from Tennes­ mass convention jn Dyersburg, Tenn., on the 17th of May, see, to the public press, and to W. H. Dick, president of said Missis­ 1929, relative to the damage to land, property, and so forth, sippi River Flood Control Association. by Mississippi River floods in western Tennessee, which I ask STATE OF TENNESSEE, may be printed in the RECORD. LAKE COUNTY. There being no objection, the resolutions were referred to the I, R. C. Donaldson, secretary of the West Tennessee Flood Control Committee on Commerce and ordered to be printed in the Association, hereby certify that the foregoing is· a true copy of a reso­ RECORD, as follows : lution adopted by the said West Tennessee Flood Association at a Whereas the :flood waters of the Mississippi River have caused. great mass meeting held in Dyersburg, Tenn., on , 1!.>29. and increasing damages to the lands, property, and farming interests R. C. DONALDSON, SecretarY. of those owning property in the Mississippi River bottom in the coun­ BILLS AND JOINT RESOLUTION INTRODUCED ties of Lake, Obion, Dyer, r.. auderdale, Tipton, and Shelby, in west Tennessee ; and Bills and a joint resolution were introduced, read the first Whereas these floods, which are gradually increasing in height and time, and, by unanimous consent, the second time, and referred duration in ·this area, have emphasized and accentuated the injustice as follows: and unequal burdens which have been visited on this section of west By Mr. BROOKHART: Tennessee by the construction of drainage canals and the building of A bill ( S. 1258) granting an increase of pension to Mary E. levees along the Mississippi River, and particularly levees north and SeYerns (with accompanying papers) ; west of this territory, to such an extent that such floods have pmc­ A bill ( S. 1259) granting an increase of penston to Elise Hart­ tically destroyed our land values and property; and mann (with accompanying papers) ; and Whereas the Congress of the United States in 1928 enacted flood­ A bill (S. 1260) granting a pension to Alta H. Richmond relief measures whereby the Government assumed the obligation of (with accompanying papers) ; to the Committee on Pensions. controlling the flood . waters of the Mississippi River and the payment By Mr. THOMAS of Oklahoma : of damages occasioned by construction work for that purpose at many A bill ( S. 1261) granting an increase of pension to Jennie other points along the river, but did not provide for payment of ade­ Parks (with accompanying papers); to the Committee on Pen­ quate damages to the property along the east bank of the river in sions. Tennessee and which territory in west Tennessee is being made and By Mr. BLAINE: used as a :flood way or reservoir for collecting and storing surplus A bill ( S. 1262) granting an increase of pension to Louise floou waters coming down from upstream; and Hayden (with accompanying papers); to the Committee on Whereas the said act of 1928 is indefinite and uncertain in its pro­ Pensions. visions touching the payment of damages occasioned by the increase By Mr. DENEEN: in flood levels as the result of the construction of levees in other parts A bill (S. 1263) granting an increase of pension to Henry W. of the M:issiAsippi Valley; and Kappes ; to the Committee on Pensions. Whereas the Mississippi River Commission and the engineers con­ A bill (S. 1264) for the relief of Joliet National Bank, Com­ stituting the flood-control board, having in charge the administra­ mercial Trust & Savings Bank, and H. William, John J., Edward . tion of said flood control act, have reported adversely to the advisa­ F., and Ellen C. Sharpe; to the Committee on Claims. bil!ty of the construction of any levees in Tennessee south of Tipton­ By Mr. REED: ville, Tenn., and suggest no remedy, or a very inadequate remedy, for the solution of flood troubles in said area: Therefore be it A bill (S. 1265) granting an increase of pension to Mary L. Reese ; to the Committee on Pensions. Resol r: ed by the people of the cottnties ana territot·y above r eferred A bill ( S. 1266) to further amend section 6, act of March 4, to, actittg in mass convention in Dyersburg, Tenn., on this the 11th 1923, so as to make better provision for the recovery and dispo~ day of May, 1929, That we earnestly protest against the injustice and neglect and this excessive damage and loss that we are forced to bear sition of bodies of members of the civilian components of the by reason of the policy so far adopted and pursued by the United Army who die in line of duty, and for other purposes; to the Sl:.o'l tes Government and its agencies with respect to levees, and we Committee on Military Affairs. do hereby petition the Congress of the United States to take cognizance By Mr. WATSON: of our condition and to amend the flood control act so that our entire A bill ( S. 1267) for the relief of Charles E. Reyburn; to the territory now subject to overflows from said river may also be pro­ Committee on Claims. tected from the floods of said river, or that our people be given just A bill (S. 1268) authorizing the States of Illinois and In­ and reasonable compensation by the United States Government for the diana to construct, maintain, and operate a free highway bridge damages done to them and their property by dumping and storing across the Wabash River at or near Vincennes; to the Commit­ exce sive tlood waters upon our unprotected and defenseless territory, tee on Commerce. thereby removing all doubt that may now exist as to whether the act lly l\Ir. ~'RAl\Il\IELL: of 1928 secures to us any such damages or compensation; be it further A bill (S. 1269) providing for a fund for reimbursement to Resolved, That we do hereby band ourselves together and form an growers suffering loss of crops from the Mediterranean fruit organization, to be known as the West Tennessee Flood Control Asso­ fly; to the Committee on Agriculture and Forestry. ciation, fot• the purpose of taking such steps as may be deemed neces­ By Mr. WALSH of Montana : sary and expedient to present and impress our cause and claims upon A bill ( S. 1270) providing for the construction of roads on the Presillent and Congress of the United States, and to this end an the Fort Belknap Indian Reservation in the State of Montana ; executive committee consisting of five members shall be appointed by to the Committee on Indian Affairs. t!:e president of this association, one each from the counties of Oblon, By Mr. SIMMONS : Lake, Dyer, and Lauderdale, and one representing jointly the counties A bill ( S. 1271) granting a pension to Edmond S. Battle of Shelby and Tipton, who in connection with the pre~i~tmt of the (~ith acco~panying papers); to the Committee on Pensions. 1830 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE MAY 24 By Mr. JONES: character, either through the introduction of term ·settlements or other­ A bill ( S. 1272) to codify the shipping and navigation laws wise; of the United State , and for other purposes ; to the Committee 5. The classification of loans to brokers by members of the Federal on Commerce. reserve system and the purposes for which such loans are used par­ By 1\Ir. McKELLAR : ticularly in connection with new issues ; A bill ·( S. 1273) providing that appointments in the Library 6. The different types of trading on the stock exchanges and the scope of Congress shall hereafter be made in accordance with civil­ of each as well as the extent of so-called "short sales" and the relative service regulations; to the Committee on Civil Service. degree of concentration in "pool " stocks ; . By Mr. CAPPER: 7. The effect of the operations of the system in con­ A bill (S. 1274) granting an increase of pension to Martha J. tributing to the high rate of interest on call money and to the drawing Elmore (with accompanying papers); to the Committee on Pen­ of money from rural districts to financial centers for speculative sions. purposes; By Mr. FRAZIER: 8. The basis for the acceptance policies of the Federal reserve system A joint resolution ( S. J. Res. 45) proposing an amendment and the extent to which mergers are taking place between member to the Constitution of the United States prohibiting war; to the banks in the Federal reserve system ; Committee on the Judiciary. · 9. Whether or not chain banking and branch banking are being de­ veloped and the effect and qualities of these types of banking ; AMENDMENTS TO CENSUS AND .APPORTIONMENT BILL 10. The extent to which investment or security trusts are being Mr. HARRISON and :M:r. HOWELL each submitted an formed by or in connection with member banks of the Federal reserve amendment intended to be proposed by them, respe-ctively, to system, and the extent, character, and effect of their operations ; the bill ( S. 312) to provide for the fifteenth and subsequent 11. The extent of the loans to such trusts by the member banks and decennial censuses and to provide f()r apportionment of Repre­ the loans made by them at call and otherwise, the dividends paid by sentatives in C()ngress, which were ordered to lie on the table such trusts, and the effect of such trusts upon fluctuations in the market and to be printed. value of stocks ; OLD-AGE PENSIONS 12. Whether or not the usury laws are evaded by such investment or security trusts ; Mr. DILL submitted the following resolution (S. Res. 70), 13. Whether the member banks of the Federal reserve system should which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary: be prohibited from forming or being concerned with investment or Resolved, 'That the Committee on the Judiciary, . or any duly author­ security trusts ; ized subcommittee thereof, is hereby authorized and directed to (1) 14. The extent of the power of Congress to regulate the business of examine and report to the Senate the laws of the separate States on stockholders and others engaged jn issuing, neg-otiating, or trading in the subject of old-age pensions; (2) investigate and report to the Sen­ securi-ties ; ate the conditions of the aged who are dependent throughout the 15. Whether the effect of the direct discounting of member bank United States; and (3) report to the Senate as to the CQnstitutionality notes by reserve banks had proven harmful ; of a Federal old age pen. ion law and make recommendations as to 16. Whether the so-called " war amendments " to the Federal re­ whether such a system of pe.nsions, if desirable, should be separate serve act have not outlived their object; from or CQnnected with the existing State systems and State syste-ms 17. The number of bank failures within the period of 10 years prior tbat may be hereafter established, and make such other recommenda­ to the passage of this resolution and the causes of such failures ; tions on this subject to the Senate as the committee may deem proper 18. Whether the national banking laws should be amended so as to as to desirable or necessary legislation on this subject. For the pur­ prevent Federal charters being granted to associations having less than poses of this resolution the committee, or any duly authorized subcom­ $100,000 capital; mittee thereof, is authorized to hold hearings, to sit and act at such 19. Whether the merger or consolidation of large financial institutions times and places during the sessions and recesses of the Senate until is beneficial or whether such mergers or consolidations s~ould be the final report is submitted, to employ such clerical and other assist­ restricted ; ants, to require by snbpcena or otherwise the attendance of such wit­ 20. The extent of the powers of Congress to legislate with respect to nesses and the production of such books, and documents, to administer mergers and consolidations of financial institutions brought about under such oaths, and to take such testimony, and make such expenditures, State law with which the members of the Federal reserve system are not as it deems advisable. Every person who, having been summoned as concerned; a witness by authority of said committee or any subcommittee thereof, 21. And whether there is any evidence of concerted action on the willfully makes default or who, having appeared, refuses to answer any part of member banks of the Federal reserve system to discriminate question pertinent to the investigation herein authorized shall be liable between competing business concerns in the extension of credits and to the penalties provided by section 102 of the Revised Statutes of the the making of loans. United States. The CQSt of stenographic services to report such bear­ For the purpose of this resolution the committee or any duly author­ ings shall not be in excess of 25 cents per 100 words. The ex­ ized subcommittee thereof i~ authorized to hold hearings ; to sit and act penses of the committee or subcommittee, which shall not exc~d at such times and places during the sessions and recesses of the Seventy­ $10,000, shall be paid from the contingent fund of the Senate upon first and succeeding Congresses until the final report is submitted; to vouchers approved by the chairman. employ such clerical and other assistants ; to require by subpcena or ()PER.ATI()NS OF THE FEDERAL BESERVE SYSTEM otherwise the attendance of such witnesses and the production of such books, papers, and documents; to administer such oaths; and to take Mr. KING. I submit a resolution dealing with the reserve such testimony and make such expenditures as it deems advisable. 'rhe system, stock speculation, and so forth. I ask that the resolu­ cost of stenographic services to report such bearings shall not be in tion may be printed in the RECORD and referred to the Com­ excess of 25 cents per hundred words. The expenses of the committee, mittee on Banking and Currency. which shall not exceed $25,000, shall be paid from the contingent fund The resolution (S. Res. 71) was referred t() the Committee of the Senate upon vouchers approved by the chairman. on Banking and Currency, as follows : INQUIRY RELATIVE TO CORPORATE COMBINATIONS Resolved, That in order to provide for the most effective operation of the Federal reserve system, to inform the Senate of the facts in Mr. WALSH of Montana submitted the following resolution connection with the use of the reserve funds of banks, in carrying or ( S. Res. 72), which was referred to the Committee on Interstate trading in secm·ities, contrary to existing law, and to furnish a basis Commerce: for constructive legislation to remedy such defects in our banking sys­ Whereas in January, 1926, Mr. A. F. Myers, special assistant to the tew as may be found to exist, the Committee on Banking and Cur­ Attorney General, stated to the House Committee on Appropriations: rency, or a duly authorized subcommittee thereof, is hereby authorized "Notwithstanding all the years of legislation on the trust problem and and directed to make a full and complete investigation and to report all the years of endeavor in enfo'I'cing antitrust laws, I think it thereon to the Senate as soon as practicable, with such recommendations must be recognized that we are just on the threshold of the trust for neces ary legislation as it deems advisable : problem. You can not pick up a paper without reading of orne merger 1. What defects, if any, have been found to erlst in the operation in business; and, as you know, unless it appear that the merger would of the Federal reserve system, and what legislation is necessary to cor­ result in restraint· of trade within the decisions in the Ste€1 ca e, or rect such defects ; unless it is brought about by stock acquisition which results in elimi­ 2. Whether the facilities of the Federal reserve banks have been nation of competition between two companies within the meaning of utilized in loans for trading in and carrying securities; section 7 of the Clayton Act, there is not now any legislation covering 3. Whether member banks have a1forded u~duly large accommodation the situation. Congress did legislate on the subject of mergers in sec­ to brokers; tion 7 o.f the Clayton Act when it provided that no corporation engaged 4. Whether the banking laws of the United States should be amended in commerce should acquire an or any part of the capital of another so as to restrict the use of general bank c.redits for speculative purposes corporation where the purpose or effect might be to eliminate competi­ or to limit the volume of loans made for the purpose of carrying on tion. But we find in practically all these recorded instances at the marginal transactions in stocks and other transactions of a speculative present day that the companies buy not the stock of each other but the 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-- SENATE 1831 physical assets, and that, of course, takes the transaction out of section of the -Interior insists upon a stubborn policy of inefficiency, a 7 of the Clayton Act " ; and policy that is not conducive· to the best interests of the health Whereas the precedent of the decision in the Steel Corporation case of the tubercular Indian children. Why the department persists seems to be misconstrued in view of the more recent decision in the in that policy is more than we can understand. Lehigh Valley Railroad case, in which a much smaller control of the Mr. President, I ask at this point that the names of the industry affected was held to be in violation of the antitrust laws ; and senders of these telegrams may be inserted in the RECORD. Whereas the intention of Congress in passing the antitrust laws was There being no objection, the matter was ordered to be printed to prohibit all combinations of competitors that would substantinlly in the RECORD, as follows : lessen competition or tend to create a monopoly and increase of prices, The following is a list of names of private and influential individuals, whether by the acquisition of shares of stock or of plants or other officers of religious organizations, civil organizations, commercial organi­ assets; and zations, publishers of newspapers, labor organizations, commercial clubs, \Ybereas the profits from the issue of so-called watered stock by such fraternal organizations, social welfare organizations who have protested monopolistic corporations is alleged to be one of the chief motives for this day by telegram against the inauguration of a policy of converting their formation and an inducement to the charging of excessive prices Indian school buildings located at Rapid City, S. Dak., into a tubercular for the commodities sold by them ; and sanatorium tor Indian children on the grounds that it is not a humane ) Whereas it has been alleged that such combinations are in violation policy and because of the fact that the Indian school is now located of the antitrust laws: Therefore be it within the city limits of Rapid City, S. Dak., containing a population of Resolved, That the Federal Trade Commission is directed to make an approximately 8,000 people : inquiry into all industrial and commercial combinations having out­ L. D. Edgerton, president Spearfish Chamber of Commerce, Spearfish, standing securities in excess of $20,000,000 effected during the last four S. Dak. ; F. S. -Howe, mayor, Deadwood, S. Dak. ; J. A. Stanley, editor years and to report to the Senate as follows : of Lead Call, Lead, S. Dak.; Floyd W. Brown, Lead, S. Dak.; Chambers (1) A description o.f the form and extent of each of such combi­ Kellar, Lead, S. Dak. ; H. T. Cheney, secretary Belle Fourche Commercial nations. {2) With respect to each of the combinations so described, (a) Club, Belle Fourche, S. Dak. ; J. S. Smith, editor of Belle Fourche Bee, whether the effect or tendency of the combination has been substan­ Belle Fourche, S. Dak. ; Laura M. McCain, president Delphian Society, Rapid City, S. Dak.; Clara Nehrenberg, oracle, Royal Neighbors of tially to lessen competition or to create a monopoly in any line of America, Rapid City, S. Dak.; Mrs. J. K. Lesperance, secretary Wood­ commerce in any section or community; (b) whether, and to what ex­ tent the effect of such combination has been to stabilize production man Circle, Rapid City, S. Dak. ; Mrs. Viola Swander, president and empl'oyment, as shown by {1) the proportion and growth of the Woman's Christian Temperance Union, Rapid City, S. Qak.; Mrs. J. L. production and sales of the combination in comparison with those of Robbins, president Current Events Club, Rapid City, S. Dak.; Mrs. Vera its competitors; (2) the prices and margins of profit on commodities Hood, president Young Women's Christian Association, Rapid City, sold; (3) the rates of profit on capital employed in the business; ( 4) S. Dak.; Mrs. Edith Melaven, worthy matron Eastern Star, Rapid City, the issue of securities in amounts in excess of the fair value of the S. Dak.; Mrs. Minnie L. Grimes, president American Legion Auxiliary, property or earning power represented thereby, and the facts regarding Rapid City, S. Dak. ; Helen Ferguson, chapeaux of 8 and 40, Rapid the disposition of the same; _ (5) the total production in the Nation, City, S. Dak. ; Monica McKnickle, president the Business and Profes­ sional Women's Club, Rapid City, S. Dak.; Mrs. Samuel Crabb, president and relative number of persons fully employed. Fortnightly Club, Rapid City, S. Dak.; Mrs. George Williams, president (3) What new form of Federal action whether legisl·ative or ad­ Summer Civics Club, Rapid City, S. Dak. ; Mrs. Stanley Core, president ministrative is recommended as most effective to regulate and control Milwaukee Railway Women's Club, Rapid City, S. Dak.; M.rs. B. L. such corporate combinations, -including legislation to prevent the issue Mathews, president Chicllgo-& Northwestern Women's Club, Rapid City, of securities which are not justified by the fair value of the property S. Dak.; Linnie E. Bender, secretary Modern Brotherhood of America, or earning power of the issuing corporation, or respecting which ade­ Rapid City, S. Dak., Bessie Willcox, noble grand United Rebecca Lodge, quate disclosure is not made regarding such value or earning power, Rapid City, S. Dak.; Dr. .Agnes Cowles, grand regent Catholic Daughters prevent speculative banking control, and to prevent excessive profits. to of America, Rapid City, S. Dak. ; Miss Della Haft, president American WITHDRAWAL OF PAPE&S-WILLIA.M H. BRANE Association of Univ.ersity Women, Rapid City, S. Dak.; Charles A. Nystrom, command~r United Spanish War Veterans, Rapid City, S. Dak. On motion of Mr. DENEEN, it was NATIONAL ORIGINSr-REPORT OF COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION OF THE Ordered, That the papers filed with the bill (S. 1325) granting an increase of pension to William H. Brane, Sixty-ninth Congress, first ALLIED PATRIOTIC SOCIETIES session, be withdrawn from the files of the Senate, no adverse report Mr. BLEASE. Mr. President, I ask to have printed in the having beeu made thereon. RECORD the fifth annual report of the committee on immigra­ tion of the Allied Patriotic Societies (Inc.), of New York City, SANATORIUM FOR. TUBElWULAB INDIAN CHILDREN which contains an article -on the subject of national origins­ Mr. McMASTER. Mr. President, I arrr in receipt of some which I am very anxious to have printed in the RECoRD, as that 26 telegrams from prominent citizens of the western portion question may be before Congress at any time. of South Dakota, ne-wspaper publishers, heads of ci"Vic organi­ There being no objection, the matter was ·ordered to be printed zations, commercial organizations, labor organizations, social in the RECORD, as follows : - welfare organizations, and religious organizations, protesting FIFTH AN~UAL REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON IMhUGUATION OF THE against the policy of the Department of the Interior in refer­ ALLIED PATRIOTIC SOCIETIES (INC.)1 ence to using old school buildings for the purpose of establish­ ing a sanitarium for tubercular Indian children. The condi- In writing its annual reports on immigration this committee has • tions that apply to South Dakota apply to many of the States sought in general to put before the representatives of the .Allied Patriotic which have Indian populations~ There are some 600 or 700 Societies: Indian children in South Dakota afflicted with tubercular First. The immigration platform of the Allied Patriotic Societies trouble, and the department proposes to take old buildings (Inc.). loeated at Rapid City, S. -Dak., and convert them into a tubercu­ Second. A summary of recent information as to immigration in the lar sanatorium. As a matter of f~ct, in these modern times United States based largely on Government statistics for the previous even a layman knows that a tubercular institution should be fiscal year. built and modernly equipped, particularly with reference to Third. A brief survey of legislation in the last preceding term of sunshine and fresh air. Within a few miles of Rapid City, Congress, giving grounds for legislation which we favor. where this Indian school is located, there is in the mountains Proceeding with our 1·eport under these three heads, we set forth an ideal location for the establishment of a tubercular institu­ immediately below the resolutions representing our present platform on tion for children, and yet the Department of the Interior insists immigration legislation, approved by unanimous vote by our board of that this tubercular institution shall be established in that directors at its meeting on March 28, 1929, and by our regular monthly city of 8,000 population, thus subjecting other children of the conference of the societies, held on April 3, 1929, at the Army and Navy white population to this contagious disease. Club, New York City: The Indian Department, of courFe, takes the stand that Con­ ((Resolved, That we recommend: gress will not appropriate the money for the purpose of properly "(1) Retention of the immigration act of 1924, including the funda-­ taking care of the tubercular Indian children. A bill was intro­ mental national-origins provision for apportioning the immigration ac­ duced here for jhe purpose of establishing a separate institution; cording to the present composition of the American people, both native it went to the Committee on Indian Affairs, but the Indian and foreign born. Bureau sent in an adverse report upon that bill, notwithstanding ' 1'(2) Extension of quota restrictions to Mexico, the West Indies, and tbe fact that the chairman of the Appropriations Committee and countries of Central and South America without invalidating the pro- two or three other members of that committee were favorable to the project. These good people in South Dakota, as well as 1 No report was issued in 1928. The present report covers the period people in other States, can not comprehend why the Department July 1, 1927-, 1929. 1832 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE MAY 24 vision of the present law excluding as· permanent immigrants persons During the above sb: months the deportations totaled 5,651, or about not eligible to United States citizenship. the same rate as during the previous year. "(3) The enactment of a law requiring the registration of all aliens in the United States. ILLEGAL ENTRIES "(4) Adequate appropriations by Congress for the maintenance and The above statistics as to immigration relate only to the number of extension of the border patrol and for tbe deportation of all deportable Immigrants legally admitted to tbe United States and take no · account aliens as well as the strengthening of the Ia w as to the deportation of of tbe very large number of illegal entries across our borders or at our criminal and defective aliens. · seaports. As to the annual total of ·this illegal immigration~ there. "(5) The repeal or strict amendment of the Vincent-Copeland bill, are no correct statistics, and there is wide divergence of opiniolll passed at the last session as Public Law No. 962, granting certificates even in official circles. The Secretary of Labor at one time stated of entry to aliens wbo have unlawfully entered the country and enabling that tbe illegal ·entries might amount to 1,000 a day, or 365,000 per such aliens to become citizens. annum. We believe that this is too high an estimate for the present "(6) Making tbe act of 1924 applicable to inhabitants of the Philip­ time, the border patrol having made considerable progress in check­ pine Islands not eligible to United States citizenship, as proposed in a Ing the tlood of '' bootleg " immigrants over the Canadian and Mexican bill introduced by Congressman ALBERT JoHNSON at the second session borders. of the Seventieth Congress." The exhaustive independent survey made by the New York Evening Post and appearing in a series of daily articles for the week beginning IMMIGRATION STATISTICS, 1927-1!l29 , 1929, estimates the total annual illegal immigration at During the last fiscal year, ending June 30, 1928, the total number of 200,000. We believe that this estimate is conservative. " immigrant aliens," as defined by the law, admitted to the United States NEED FOR A LAW REGISTERING ALL ALIENS was 400,999. Of these, 153,231 were quota immigrants, 94,502 were returning immigrants, and 123,362 were natives of nonquota countries. (See No. 3 of resolutions) Of this latter class, natives of nonquota countries, no less than 59,149 The Allied Patriotic Societies (Inc.), in common with a large num­ had been permanent residents of Mexico. ber of other organizations deeply interested in the proper restriction Summary from reports of Commi-ssioner General of immigration, have long felt that what is needed more tban anything else to check the great evil of illegal immigration, which is apt to be (See Table 47 (1928) and Table 43 (1927)) decidedly inferior and less desirable than the selected legal immigra­ tions, is, registration of all aliens in the United States. It is true Number admitted that under a recent regulation of the Department of Labor immigrants now entering legally get identification cards certifying their legal Year end- Year end- entry, but this gives no information as to the vast number, estimated ing June ing June 30, 1928 30, 1927 by the Commissioner General between 1,500,000 and 3,000,000, who have entered illegally since the enactment of the first quota law. In our opinion, it is nothing less than pusillanimous on the part of so great Orand total, all aliens admitted------1-----1----­500,631 538,001 a country as the United States to fail to make a check up of foreigners Total nonimmigrant aliens admitted (temporary visitors who are in the country legally or illegally. for pleasure or business, foreign delegations, persons in Once the would-be alien gate crasher knows tbat his presence will be transit, etc.) ______----______------.------99,632 95,704 inevitably discovered after he has broken into the United States-by Total number all immigrants admitted______400,999 442,'1!J7 Total quota immigrants ______the simple process of an efficient system of registration-he will think Total nonquota immigrants ______153,231 158,070 Wives of United States citizens ______247,768 284, 2ZT twice before jumping the border. Already, illegal entrance is made a 13,625 10,084 misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment not exceeding one year and · Children of United States citizens ______12, 075 8, 421 Husbands of United States-citizens ______61 ------a fine of $1,000. If this act were supplemented by an act requiring the ' Resident aliens of United States returning from a visit registration of all aliens, the great evil of wholesale illegal immigration abroad. ______------·- 94,502 95,910 could be reduced to negligible proportions. So long as bootleg immi­ Natives of nonquota countries ______123,362 158,657 All other nonquota immigrants ______4, 143 11,155 grants can lose themselves in our vast population of over 115,000,000, Immigrant aliens admitted from Mexico ______59,149 78,948 Immigrant aliens admitted from Canada ______the task of finding them is well-nigh hopeless and the temptation to 56,236 71,279 illegal entry correspondingly great. The most enlightened countries Deportations------11,625 11,662 of western Europe, with much smaller territory and much smaller pop­ ulation than our own, have for many years registered all aliens and It should be observed that in tbe tables from which the above figures have vigorously enforced such law. With us the need is far greater­ were taken the Commissioner General gives the total number of immi­ why does Congress hesitate? The answer is nowhere to be found except grant aliens admitted as 307,255 for the year ending June 30, 1928, and in political considerations, namely, fear of the opposition of racial 335,175 for the year ending June 30, 1927, but tlie e figures, as appears groups seeking to protect and conceal their illegally entered brethren. from the tables themselves, do not include aliens who have previously A Congressman from New York City bad the audacity to say at a public been in the United States but have returned from a temporary visit IIli!eting not very long ago that a man who was smart enough to get · abroad, and who, under the terms of the act of 1924, are classified as through the immigration barriers erected by Uncle Sam, was the kind immigrants and should be included, therefore, in the total number of of man that we should be glad to have as a fellow citizen. From this " immigrants " as defined by the act. opinion we respectfully dissent. As appears above, tbe total number of immigrants within the meaning of the act for the last fiscal year ending June 30, 1928, was 400,999 SURVEY OF IMMIGRATION LEGISLATION DURING BOTH SESSIO:SS OF THE and for the previous year 442,227. SEVENTIETH CONGRESS The total emigration for the last fiscal year, not including aliens (a) The admission of relatives: leaving the United States on temporary visits abroad, is shown by the The only immigration law of any importance enacted at the first and Commissioner General's report to have been 77,457, as compared with long session of the Seventieth Congress was tbe Jenkins Act, which be- · 73,366 for the previous year. Subtracting these figures from the total came law on , 1928. This act, it is believed, will satisfactorily "immigration" as defined by tbe act, it will be noted that during the dispose of the long pending issue as to what was to be done to facilitate last fiscal year the excess of immigration over emigration was 323,542, the entry of the near relatives of aliens, who, since the "'nactment of while in the previous year it was 368,861. the first quota law, had entered the United States without bringing IMMIGRATION DURING II'IRST SIX MONTHS OF FISCAL YEAR ENDING JUNE ao, their families with them. For years that portion of the press which is 1929 published in cities containing a large foreign and immigrant population The official statistics for tbe current fiscal year ending June 30, 1929, resounded with the claim that the United States bad cruelly separated will not be available until August next, but the following items taken these immigrant families ·by the enactment of the quota laws and d~­ from an official bulletin of the Department of Labor issued in January, manded instant relief from the alleged injustice on the part of the Con­ 1929, as to immigration during the six months ending December 31, gress of the United States. 1928, will be of interest: The fact, of course, is that the immigrants themselves bad taken the risk of separation, knowing that with the reduced admissions their July-December~ 1928 families might not be abl'e to follow them for a con iderable time. Immigrants (not including returning immigrants)------164, 665 According to estimates of the Department of State, the fir t Copeland­ Nonimmigrants (including returning immigrants)------193, 376 Wadsworth bill would have admitted, outside of the quotas, some The figure in the first column shows that if the present rate of immi­ 270,000 of these relatives. However, this bill, even in the somewhat gration is maintained during the last six months of the year ending modified form in which it was later presented, was l)efeated in two June 30, 1929, the new and permanent immigration for the year will be sessions of Congress. Scores of other bills along the same lines were 329,330, or an increase of 22,075 over the corresponding figure for the introduced in both sessions of the Seventieth Congress, and last year a preceding fiscal year. bill introduced by Mr. McGregor, of New York, proposed to turn over During the same six months the two countries sending the greatest one-half of all the quotas for two years, i. e., to set aside for two number of immigrants to the United States were Mexico, 25,020, and years 164,000 places for relatives of aliens previously admitted. Hear­ Germany, 21,758. iDgs were had on this bill, which was strongly pushed by racial and re- 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 1833 llgious organizations sympathetic ·with various groups among the for­ eligible to citizenship, and therefore not legally admissible under the eign born. The bill, however, was rejected by the House Committee terms of the statute. It is recognized that there are difficulties here on Immigration and Naturalization, one principal reason being that it in determining as to Mexicans which are and which are not properly was found that all but a very small portion of the near relatives of classified as belonging to the white race, but it is submitted that this aliens admitted to the United States prior to 1924 (the last quota law) does not constitute a valid excuse for net making a bona fide attempt had already been able to gain admission either under the quotas or to enforce the law on the part of the officials of the Departments of under the quota exemptions granted to wives and children of United State and Labor who are charged with this duty. It is a matter of States citizens. The figures for the last fiscal year ending June 30, common knowledge that no such attempt has been made up to the 1928, show that for that year alone 25,000 alien wives and children present time. We also submit that if small quotas are put upon of United States citizens were admitted. The McGregor bill would Mexico and other countries of North and South America, from which have changed the entire character of our immigration, since it pooled the immigration is largely not of the white race, the enforcement of all the national quotas together for the admission of relatives from the eligibility to citizenship clause would be greatly facilitated. all countries, thus making possible and probable a preponderance of the THE SHORT SESSION racial strains from southern and eastern Europe, which constituted 80 per cent of the "newer" immigration of the two decades before The second session of the Seventieth Congress, which adjourned the war. The House committee, after careful consideration of the March 4, 1929, although it resulted in little actual legislation on im­ various measures proposed for facilitating the reunion of families, migration, was not without its importance in the history of the strug­ tabled the )fcGregor bill and passed the Jenkins Act, whereby 50. gle to solidify our present national policy of restricting immigration per cent of all quotas were set aside for preferential entry of wives within proper bounds and on scientific principles. The only bills of and children of aliens heretofore lawfully admitted. A report, dated any importance affecting immigration which became law were the December 24, 1928, was printed for the use of the House Committee Blease bill and the Vincent-Copeland bill. The former maue it a on Immigration, showing the working of the Jenkins Act from June felony for an alien once arrested and deported to return to the United to October, 1928. In general, this report showed that 8,119 wives and States and made certain of the -more flagrant forms of original illegal children of aliens had in four months gained admittance under the entry misdemeanors. This law is a distinct advance in the cause of preferences above referred to and that only in three or fonr countries real restriction. It is a remarkable thing that until it was passed did the unsatisfied demand for these preferences exceed 1,000. Even there was no penalty for illegal entry other than deportation, which, as to these countries, the indications are that the remaining near as a practical matter, has thus far proved a wholly inadequate remedy, relatives still desiring to come will be taken care of within a short carried out in only a small fraction of the cases where it is theoreti­ time in one of three ways : cally available (see Resolution No. 4). First. Under the continuing Jenkins Act preferences. The only other bill seriously affecting immigration which was passed Second. Under the remainder of the regular quotas. at the recent session was that officially referred to as the Vincent­ Third. Under the quota exemptions for wives and children of United Copeland bill, H. R. 349. This bill revoked a fundamental provision ~tates citizens. of our naturalization law which has always made legal entry a condi­ It should be noted that all immigrants who arrived before 1924, when tion of naturalization. It permitted aliens entering the country ille­ the present law went into effect, have now had time to become natural· gally prior to 1921 to obtain certificates of entry permitting them to ized. A large part of these have done so, and their wives and children become naturalized. The only conditions imposed were that the time are admissible outside the quotas. The problem of separated families, for deportation had elapsed and that the alien had to make a "satis­ so far as near relatives is concerned, is practically solved. It is not factory showing" as to the date of his illegal entry and that he had likely that Congress will allow itself to be swayed by the sentimental been of "good moral character" since such entry. This bill was appeal still being made by racial organizations for the wholesale admis­ jammed through the House without a record vote near the close of the sion outside the quotas of all kinds -of relatives of aliens now here, session and became law. No public hearings were granted on the bill which would utterly break down our present system of numerically re­ in either House, and it may be regarded as a step backward, both stricted immigration. There is ample ground for the' belief that the in regard to our immigration and naturalization laws. There was an real motive behind the propaganda referred to is not inspired so much active propaganda behind it, steered largely by an organization known by the love of humanity as by the desire to increase the total immigra­ as "The Foreign Language Information Service," in New York City, tion of a given race. which claimed that it lobbied effectively for the bill in Washington. (b) Proposed restriction on Mexican immigration (resolution No. 2) : This organization tried very hard to make 1924 the date prior to During the first session of the Seventietp Congress prolonged hearings which an illegally entered alien cbuld get fixed up, so as not only to were held by the House committee on quota restriction of immigration become a legal resident but a voter. The date set by the Senate bill from Mexico and other countries of North and South America. There was 1924 as opposed to 1921, the date set in the House bill. Largely was active opposition to such legislation on the part of interested due to the insistence on the earlier date by Congressman ALBERT JoHN­ groups, such as owners of mines, railroads, sugar-beet and fruit farms, soN, one of the House members of the conference committee, the 1921 and land-development syndicates. These all desired the privilege of date was finally decided on. This greatly reduced the number of bringing in unlimited quantities of Mexicans, whose labor is undoubtedly illegally entered aliens who could take advantage of the act. If the cheaper than can be had on the American scale. Much evidence was later date, 1924, had been taken, a conservative estimate, supported by introduced to show that American labor was being driven out by this official Government reports, would be something like 400,000. There Mexican labor in a great number of employments. Restrictive legisla­ is little reliable data on which to base an estimate of the number of tion was strongly favored· by witnesses representing organizations and aliens now in the country who had illegally entered prior to the earlier groups which look at the problem from the point of view of the general date, 1921, 1:he year in which the first numerical restrictions were ·im-· public rather than from that of special interest. It was shown that posed. Prior to the first quota law of 1921 the illegal entrants con­ immigration from Mexico, which has enormously increased since the sisted principally of persons who knew they could not get in legally first quota law was enacted, bas prouuced a new race problem of serious on account of one or more of the personal disqualifications contained dimensions, particularly in the States of California and Texas. It was in the act of 1917 and previous laws. There was, however, a com­ also shown that the Mexican colonies, which had rapidly grown up in paratively sm·an class of aliens who had entered legally over the Cana­ all the large centers of population in that part of the country, imposed dian border without, however, their entlies being recorded by our serious burdens upon these communities on account of the large number immigration officials. This was, of course, no fault of these aliens of Mexicans whom it was necessary to put into the hospitals, alms­ but of our own officials. This fact was the original pretext for the houses, and jails. It was also shown that the Mexican immigration is bill which eventually crystallized into the Vincent-Copeland bill, i. e., introducing a new school problem and that it brings with it the danger that immigrants who had entered legally, but who through no fault of of disPase and epidemic owing to the insanitary habits of this class of their own could obtain no evidence of their legal entry, were entitled immigration. to obtain certificates of legal entry. Another 1·eason for restricting the Mexican immigratio.n, which weighs If the recent legislation referred to had been confined to this class of heavily with native-born whites in the States along the southwestern innocent aliens there woulu have been no objection to it, or even i.f the border who are operating their farms and ranches independently and relief granted bad been confined to aliens whose entry was technically without any great amount of capital, is that they are injured by hav­ illegal through no willful act of their own. But the law as actually ing to compete with the cheap Mexican labor employed by the large passed makes no such discrimination and legalizes entries which were landowners, which tends to cause overproduction and a fall in the willful violations of our laws. In other words, it went much too far prices which they, the indepenuent farmers, get for their crops. While and constitutes a serious menace to the integrity of our future elec­ the House hearings resulted in no definite action, the testimony there torate. Your committee believes that the Vincent-Copeland Act should giv<'n has laid the foundation for bringing the Mexican immigration either be repealed or should be strictly amended so as not to apply to under quota restriction. A bill by Senator HARRIS to that effect was entries which were willfully unlawful (see Resolution No. 5 above). If reported favorably at the recent short session, but it got no further in the act is allowed to stand unamended it will not only work serious either House. injury, but will constitute a very dangerous. precedent and the. forces By far the greater part of the Mexican immigrants are persons who which are behind it will constantly agitate to have the date line moved are not whites but people of Indian or mixed race. These are not down to 1924 or later. '[1834 CONGRESSIONAL. - RECORD-_ SENATE MAY 24 Your committee's reasons for recommendation No. 6, abo-ve, are tlle or demerits of this system of arriving at the quotns" and stated that following: they were "simply transmitting the calculations made by the depart­ The act of 1924 was so worded as to be entirely inapplicable to Inhab­ mental cotnmittee in accordance with the act." Subsequently, both itant& of the regions which were merely possessions of the United States,· Houses of Congress, by joint resolution, · again postponed the effective like the Philippine -Islands, without being Territories or· otherWise a date of the national-origins clause one year, namely, to July 1, 1929. part of the United States. The Philippine Islands come within this cat­ In the final report of , 1929, already referred · to, only egory ana, therefore, it is held by the ilnmigration authorities that the very slight changes were made by the experts in the national-origins reStrictions of the law· do not apply to Philippine immig'ration. The law quotas, and at the bearings of the Senate committee shortly afterwards should be, therefore, amended so as to· apply to Philippine immigrants Doctor Hill, Assistant Director of the Census and chairman of the not" eligible to United States citiz~nsbip: Such. immigration hils been subcommittee, which did the actual work of computing the quotas, stated coming-in recently in increasing numbers to the Pacific Coast States, and that no further time was neei:Ied f

·1836 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE· 1\fA.Y 24 I increases are those of Hungary, 3fl6; ~choslovakia, 1!)9; Russia, 536·; are seeking to get the largest possible immigration from their re pective Greeee, 207; Yugoslavia, 174; Portugal, 63; and Poland, 542. These eountries of origin. The outcome of this political batt1c will be of great increases are so small as to tie practically negligible and can hardly be significance as showing whether the Congress of the United States is, taken seriously as an argument against the national-origins system of on the question of immigration restriction, subject to hyphenated a'pportionment. On the contrary, the fact that they cure minor diS'­ influences or to influences which are purely American. criminations againi!t all these small countries present in the 1890 Respectfully submitted. quotas is a strong argument in their favor. The alleged disadvantage COMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION, can only be based on the bald aTgument that all races of zrorthern ALLIED PATBIOTrc SociETIES (INc.). Europe are superior to those of southern Europe. The latter claim is HUGH WmTE ADAMS. not inherent in the national-origins basis, which gives a:n absolutely HENRY PRATT FATRCHILD. square deal to each European country according to its contribution. It BELL GURNEE, is the very obvious fairness of the national-origins formula which ap­ HARRY H. LAUGHLIN. pealed to the Senate leaders in 1924 and largely influenced them in ALEXANDER L. WARD. selecting it as a permanent basis of apportionment. It was realiz-ed DWIGHT BRAMAN, Ea:-Of/iciO. at that time that the 1890 foreign-born basis was much more open to FRANCIS H. KlNNICUTT, Chairman. attack as discximinatory, not only against the oldest 'American stock but against some of the recent immigration, as that from Italy, which "TilE CLOSING DOOR OF OPPORTUNITY" eame principally after the year 1890. Although the latter discrimina­ Mr. FLETCHER. Mr. President, I ask to have inserted in tions did not have a very substantial effect on the quotas, yet they the RElCoRD an article by Mr. W. E. Lawrence, of Tampa, Fla., eonstitute a logical ground for attack on the law. Congress very natu­ which is entitled "The Closing Door of Opportunity." rally decided to adopt a basis which was not open to such attack and, There being no objection, the article was ordered to be printed therefore, more likely to prove permanent. .Another fact which must in the REcORD, as follows : not be lost sight of in comparing the merits of the rival systems of One hundred and .fifty-three years ago the fathers of this country apportionment from the restrictionist's point of view is that the total declared it to be a truth self-evident that all men are born free and annual quota immigration under the national-origins system is 10,953 equal and endowed with the inalienable right to liberty and the pursuit less than on the 1890 basis, or the difference between 164,667 (1890 of happiness. During all the years that have passed we have been basis) and 153,114 (national-origins- basis).) repeatedly assured of the keeping of our country's faith with these These discriminations can not be lightly ignored. While the national­ fundamentals. In spite ot all this and in apparent fulfillment of the origins figures make only minor adjustments in the great majority of the guaranties of the Constitution our liberties have been slipping away. quota countries, they make changes with respect to the quotas of Great Step by step the forces of greed and avarice have sapped at the founda· Britam, Germany, and the Irish Free State which are very material and tions of freedom, until it seems that the time has arrived when the last very necessary. As pointed out in our statement before· the Senate rampart must be evacuated and the standard of free men relilli}uished committee on , 1929, it is- to the basic stock of English and for the banner of slavery, especially in the opportunities offered to the Scotch descent, which constituted 90 per cent of our population up to rising generation to establish themselves in busine . Time was when the time of the Revolution and later, that we owe our political institu­ every boy could aspire to some successful line Gf endeavor, wholly de­ tions, our language, our law, and all the corner stones of our American pendent upon his own ability. Your boy could enter the hardware trade civilization. Through wave after wa_ve of. immigration from other races and expect to some day own a store of his own. My boy could become a the basic racial element has been greatly diluted and is in danger of groeeryman and hope to become a leading grocer. And another boy being submerged. Unless further dilution through immigration (such as might be the owner of a good drug store, shoe store, dry goods or cloth­ produced by the 1890 immigration apportionment) is prevented, our ing store. Every line was open to the boys and even the girls, and the American institutions and civilization are themselves in danger. That professions were beckoning to the student. Some boys expected to be danger is avoided by the national-origins clause, which removes the bankers, some brokers, and some traveling salesmen. What show ha a eiscriminati{)n against the basic stock and preserves our racial status boy to-day in most any line? quo, while at the same time it cures minor d.fscrimirrations as between The great combinations of retail distribution, commonly called the­ smaller elements in our- population. In a word, it provides a formula " chain stores," have throttled his future and blighted his hopes. The which is fair to all and preserves the blood of America in its present most he can expect is a manager's job, restricted by the iron rules proportions. Congress would be assuming a very serious responsibility which prevent his owning his own home or even an automobile. in removing this equitable and wise provision of the law, not only be­ He can not compete with the chains in any line. The money of the cause it would mean the substitution of a discriminatory method but communfty is soaked up as with a sponge every day and shipped away because it would invite further undermining of the basic structure of to some far-off city. The banks see it passing but can not use it. the law. Ten stores fail in busine s to make room for one chain store. Ten store­ · With regard to the present status of the political struggle over the rooms stand vacant, not even paying taxes, in order that one chain national-origins clause, there ~s ample evidence to show that the opposi­ store may operate in its own structure. Whole alers, jobbers, manu­ tion to the clause is practically confined to two sources-first, those facturers, and brokers stand trembling on the brink of ruin and fear· forces which are opposed to all restriction of immigration and welcome fully scurry together for mutual assistance, hoping thus to weather the any breach in the present immigration wall whlch will make easier the storm. Manufacturers made to stand and deliver, tremblingly hand over eventual demolition of the whole wall; second, the more extreme element tpeil' last penny of profit in the form of discounts and subsidies in among the racial groups which seek to preserve the unfair advantages an effort to keep their products available to the buying public. Na­ given in the 1890 quotas to their respective countries of origin. Con­ tional advertisers growingly depict their wares in magazine and news­ gress by enacting the national-origins clause to take the place of these paper and spend untold millions only to find themselves at last up 1890 quotas clearly showed that these advantages were not intended to against the stone wall of chain-store imitations; their retail outlets be permanent. This fact is studiously ignored in the propaganda of starved out and gone, and their only hope left to the tender mercy of such organizations as the Steuben Society, which makes it appear that the chains. Boards of trade, chambers of commerce, commercial clubs, Germany would be deprived by the national-<>rigins quotas of something unslipparted by' the vanishing· American business man, surfeit and wither to which she is entitled to by right, the truth being, however, that she and die. is merely deprived of something to which she is not entitled. · · . Every avenue is invaded, every opportunity gobbled up. .Ambition, While most of the opposition to the national-origins apportionment once the backbone of the great middle class, the ladder up which the comes from hyphenated groups belonging to one or the other of the American boy climbed, leading even to the Presidency. Ambition, the classes· mentioned, the forces lined up in defense of the law include the hand that held the torch that led the way over the rocks of the path­ great bulk of native-born Americans and practically all the great 'patri­ way of life; up to the summit of achievement. Ambition flickers and otic orders and organizations in the United States. Among these organ­ fades and dies slowly out. The fires of t~ home smolder dimly away. izations some of the most prominent and also the most active at the The hopes of a boy or girl for a family find poor lodgment in withered present time in the struggle to maintain the law, are the American hearts. Why ralse children to be serfs? Down, down, beaten down. Legion, the Sons of the American Revolution, the Daughters of the Thwarted, halted, · stilled, strangled. Suffocated in the struggle ; tbe American Revolution, the Daughters of America, the Junior Order or pride of America; the support of the colleges and universities; the United .American ·Mechanics, and the Immigration Restriction League. heart and mind timber of the Republic; the great middle class caught National organizations which are on record in one way or another in between the grinding cogs of the chain-store juggernaut. What will the favor of the national-origins clause now number over 70. Added to end be? Only defeat and de pair. And tears and agony and oblitera­ these are a large number of patriotic organizations and societies in tion for the middle class. Only that and nothing more. What will various parts of the country whose activities are confined to a given remain? What can remain? Princes and paupers. Millionaires and City or State. machinery. To sum up the situation, it would seem that the struggle· over the "Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey, national-origins clause represents a struggle between American forces Where wealth accumulates ·and men decay.'' wholeheartedly in favor of restriction of immigration, on the one hand, -- . .. W. E. LAWRENCE, IUld forces who do not take an altogether American point _or- view, but 817 lft:anklin ·streit, Tampa, Fla. I 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 11837

" THE POISON' IN DEMOCRACY "-ADDBESS BY SENATOR GOFF and sober, thrifty American business and working- men. There can not 1\fr. ODDIE. Mr. President, a most interesting, timely, and be two more opposite groups than these and those who follow the red informative· address was delivered at the State convention of flag. You believe in creating wealth and distributing it to the laborer, the National League of District Postmasters at Elkins, W. Va., the farmer, the merchant, the manufacturer, and to every class of on Wednesday, , by the senior Senator from ·west Vir­ men who toil and strive to better their rondition, and at the same ginia {Mr. GoFF] on the subject of" The Poison in Democracy." time better the community in which they live. They believe that wealth is robbery and that it should be taken away I ask unanimous consent that the address, which I send to the from those who have it and given to those who have it not. They are desk, may be plinted in the CONGRESSIONAL RECORD. not willing to give anything in return, and, if necessary to bring this There being no objection, the address was ordered to be condition about, proclaim the Government should be overthrown, and, printed in the RECORD. if the law undertakes to interfere, that those administering it should Senator GoFF spoke as follows: be done away with by the bomb or by other means equally frightful. We are living in the greatest days the modern world has seen. The war How relevant is the conclusion of a great political thinker: brougtt many chimgcs, and in every phase of life we are meeting new " When a nation becomes envious of its great and industrious men, problems, not separate and detached conditions but aspects of funda­ and begins to deal spitefully with its successful and decent families, mental changes that have brought us where we find ourselves to-day, then social decay is at work." Old forms of government that have existed for 1,500 years have tumbled FUNCTION OF STATE down before our eyes. New communities are being born; people who can not remember the time when they were not held in bondage are We have among us many who believe that the State should assume standing erect and making ready to take tb.eir place in the family of to itself additional functions and enter more intimately into our private free nations. On the other hand, loud and angry voices, querulous, con­ affairs. We are told that the inequalities we have noted are the result tentious, and peevish declaimers are heard on every hand, urging the of too much freedom, and that the disparity between individuals is so overthrow o! society and the destruction of this marvelous civilization marked that the organized power of the State must regulate our which it has taken 3,000 years to build. daily lives. Men do not spin government out of their philosophical reflections or It is proper to inquire, " What is the function of the State?" The their idle fancies. The ideals of civilization have been built up slowly State is society organized with reference to jural relations and for the and carefully. Human institutions are not put together by mere meas­ purpose of performing certain public duties. The State should do that ure and rule. They are the slow, deliberative work of the ages. The which a man ougl!t not to do ; it should do that which a man will not Constitution is an evolution, a growth of expanding thought throughout do; and it should do that which a man can not do for himself. It is the ages. well, therefore, to remember that the State does not exist merely as an The corner stone of American life is lib~rty, equality, and fraternity. insurance company to protect your property and mine. This Govern­ These essentials are proclaimed in the Declaration of Independence and ment exists not merely t_o maintain order, but also to develop in all defined in the Constitution of the United States. This is not a Govern­ the people a spirit of national self-reliance directed to the attainment ment of absolute powers. It is a Government of clearly defined and of the noblest aims, without which no republic can progress and endure. specially designated powers, and the Constitution embodies and reflects And if some of those who seek an asylum in our land do not cease their those fundamental principles. The Constitution is not a static instru­ insidious. destructive activities-if they refuse to be transformed into loyal, law-abiding Am#ricans, self-conscious and self-respecting citizen~ ment, but an ever-changing do~ument, sensitive from generation to generation to the needs of the most progressive people in the world. if they persist -in becoming parasitic gargoyles, then they must be sent In its essential principles are to be found the social, the moral, the back to the terrorism, the servitude, and the ruin from which they political, and the religious philosophy of the age. came, if need be, by the shipload. In framing the Constitution the fathers were solicitous to make an Lessons of the recent past teach, if they convey any message, that end of autocracy in every form, and they meant the autocracy of the the worker, if left to himself, is not discontented; that labor does not mob no less than that of the crown. They proceeded upon the theory desire to crush capitalism, but, rather, to effect always a fair and sensi· that there should be no arbitrary power in any sovereign, single ()r ble compromise and coordination. It is the self-seeking politician, collective, abstract or concrete, and they proclaimed in permanent form suffering with the incurable disease of demagogy, and more often ini· that there are certain rights and liberties which should never be sub­ tially the professional agitator, each a malignant pest, who prompts ject to encroachment or abridgment by a minority, or even by a majority and stirs up strikes and purposely destroys the freedom of the worker of the people. And why did they do this? Because they established and makes their union a part of his personal political machine. Para~ the Democracy of America with a thousand years of Anglo Saxon doxically these political paranoiacs seek to exploit their egotism and liberty and law behind it. exalt their egoism at the cost of destroying industry and even threaten­ ing the right of the people to live. Lenin and Trotsky destroyed a RIGHTS VERSUS DUTIES civilization, and history will indelibly record that they were powerless The world to-day is afHicted with impoverishment, unrest, and misin­ to reconstruct it. The State should never permit the tyrannical creed formation, a poisoning of the public mind against the very safeguards that what is good for the crowd is best for the individual. Oppression or free institutions. · The issue is moral, not political. Mere profes­ is no less hateful in the hands of the people than in the hands of the sions of loyalty without acts of devoted l'atriotism will not do. We despot, and democracy will avail little if in the end it rescues us from must perform to the fullest measure. There must be respect for law. the absolutism of the king only to hand us over to the absolutism of Without it life, liberty, and property are insecure. Without it civiliza­ the mob. tion falls back to the chaos and brutality of primitive times. The man EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY who works with head .and hands owes an obligation. The man with Democracy is no miracle worker, but it does declare and guarantee capital owes an even greater obligation. Every person is a national this-this and nothing more: That men of unequal ability shall be equal servant; otherwise he has no rights and is entitled to no consideration in their right to develop their potentialities. Every avenue must be under our form of government. open and every· opportunity free. To deny this is to take the firs long The basis of American life, American civilization, and American step back to autocracy and feudalism. To deny this is to approve a progress is the civil liberty of the individual. We have offered the combination of the mediocre and the inferior, to the end that character, individual an opportunity to make the most of himself, to seek his for­ ability, and morality may be punished and restrained. The instances tune as he will, to enjoy the fruits of his honest toil, and to hold in this country where the poor and the lowly rise to eminence and whatever social, commercial, or professional position his personality fame are not accidents. They are the best proof possible of equality and his education fit him to command. Under such a system of gov­ among men in the only sense in which equality is possible, equality of er!lment, we have not solved all the problems of mankind and we opportunity. We want to make the world a better place in which to have ny and frequently suffers from the poison of socialism. Shall the Expediency presses upon us and crushes us into faith and virtue. You American Republic stand or fall? Shall it remain a Republic or shall feel that you are in contact with the gigantic heart of humanity." it follow the radicalism of self-seekers and irresponsibles and go to And then he adds: pieces in the maelstrom of socialism? This is a question that must "Most men, aside from the lazy, the weak, the criminal, the defective, be met, and the sooner we meet it and grapple with it, the better for and the tainted, hate the communism of Marx and Lenin. They yearn all concerned. · for something that has the mark of personal ownership-something There .is no more appropriate time or place to discuss this question won by struggle-something to cherish and defend, to use and enjoy. than before an assemblage of successful American officials and trustees, Mankind wants a home and all that clusters around it. This sentiment LXXI-116 1838 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· -SENATE ~fAy 24 constitutes the poetry of ·life, and it dwells in bumble surroundings as abuse of the exercise of the constitutional rights of freedom of speech in places of wealth and culture." and of the press. COMMUNISTS REVOLUTION AT WORK But the socialists deny this. They assert that the entire human We hear on ev-ery side that the war is over, but the revolution has race should be made to use its powers, its capacity, and its gain for the just begun; that things are not right, and property is not distributed benefit of the community. The socialists divide men into permanent accord1ng to the universal need. There is nothing basically new in these classes and then proclaim that there shall be a class war between these stock phrases. They are as old as history. .As Gustav Le Bon observes, classes until labor conquers those who employ and drives them from "Cain, in the Old 'l'estament, had the mind of a Bolshevist." Nations, any place or position in the community. This doctrine of the class like metals, shine only on the surface; the most civilized are as close to struggle is the savage creed of Karl Marx, and was shared by the barbarism as the most polished steel is to rust. The war merely has­ Russian, Michael Bakunin, whose consuming passion was atheism and tened a racial impoverishment long at work. We are living in serious hate. In one of his addresses Bakunin said: times, big with the destiny of the world! Autocracy having been over­ "Let your own happiness be your own law. Tear out of your heart thrown, anarchy has raised its head. We are confronted with the doc­ the belief in the existence of God. Until this Is done you will never trine of the divine right of the crowd. .All of the exploded fallacies of know what freedom is. You must accustom yourself to destroy every­ government have returned to challenge democracy. The socialist and thing, the so-called good with the bad. For if an atom of the old the anarchist have combined in a world-wide propaganda more insiduous world remains, the new one will never be created. Take heed that no and poisonous than we realize. It has for its object the subjugation of ark be allowed to rescue any atom of this old world which we conse­ the entire world and the destruction of the ideals upon which free gov­ crate to destruction." ernment rests. This political philosophy excludes all moral, religious, and unselfish Ignorance and indifference are the potential allies of those who seek considerations and makes man no more than a prowling beast, seeking to subvert our institutions from within and undermine the teachings of prey wherever he can lay his hands. These political heroes say that Christianity. This doctrine would destroy all that has been gained in our Constitution has outlived its usefulness and that it is not fitted the slow upward trend of justice among men, because civilization with for a migh!Y and populous empire. Are not the principles of free gov­ religion and morality left out iM not worth preserving. We need not ernment the same? It is Impossible to estimate the capacity for evil be told that we live in strange times. A sickening, war-weary world of those who destroy the ideals of the Nation and seek to weaken the sees with horror the eastern sky all lit with a sinlster glare. We forces that unite the human and the divine. The rights of the many realize that red anarchy is already applying its torch over one-third of certainly do not differ from the rights ot the few. These radicals the world, and that this grim specter is steadily working its way west-: confuse their own impatience with the idea of true progress. They ward, loudly boasting of the time when it will have the rest of the world object to the Constitution because it interferes with the immediate under its control. attainment of their own selfish ends. They have fallen into the error The socialist would destroy everything that man has gained in hi! of assuming that whatever they desire must be right. .And yet, curi­ struggle toward God. Lothrop Stoddard hopefully says : ously enough, it is part of their propaganda to appeal to the very " Strong, well-poised systems are not overthrown. Behind revolution constitutional privileges which they are determined to destroy. One there usually lies a formative period during which the forces of chaos of these radicals, in a letter addressed to an associate advising him how gather, while the forces of order decline. Before the onslaught can to act, said : • have any chance of success, the social order must be undermined and "We want to look like patriots in everything we do. We want to get morally discredited. This is accomplished primarily by destructive crit­ a good lot of flags, talk a great deal about the Constitution and what icism, which inveighs against current defects in a bitter, carping, pessi· our forefathers wanted to make of this country, and to show that we mistic spirit, and asserts that reform can come only through sweeping are the folks that really stand for the spirit of our institutions." changes of a revolutionary character/' FREE SPEECH SOCIALISM AT WORK It is their purpose, moreover, to make it appear that all legislation The Bolshevism of Russia is an object lesson in socialism reduced to passed for the purpose of protecting the institutions of this country is practice. John Spargo, in his· work on Bolshevism, says: "Lenin and in violation of the constitutional guaranties of the freedom of speech Trotsky are just as extreme as Marx.'' .And John Reid phrases it : and of the press. We are, therefore, justified in examining for the "Bolshevism is socialism put into practice." My definition is that moment what those guaranties really are. At the outset it should be " socialism is kaiserism standing on its head and trying to rule the understood that the Constitution of the United States does not in any world with its feet." Bolshevism is not so much a political doctrine way guarantee freedom of speech, press, or assemblage to the citizens as it is a career of crime. It makes its specious appeal on behalf of the of this country. The first amendment, in the words of Judge Story: poor and arms them with fire and sword. Its red banner is the symbol "Imports no more than that every man shall have a right to speak, of destruction, and it is the enemy of the human race. It...derives its write, and print his opinions upon any subject whatsoever, without any numerical strength from the criminal classes and the gangs that infest prior restraint, so always that he does not injure any other person in the underworld of every community and from the great mass of poten­ his rights, person, property, or reputation, and so always that he does tial criminals-the morons and the addicts--the discontented victims of not, thereby, disturb the public peace or attempt to subvert the Gov­ those menacing iniquities of which nature is so full and who are re­ ernment." strained only by fear of the law. The Bolshevists are the hyenas that It reads: slink and snarl and growl upon the heels of the dogs of war. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, If Bolshevism means anything, it means the dictatorship of the pro­ or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridge the freedom of letariat. It means that the industrial and the agricultural workers are speech or of the press; or of the rights of the people peacefully to to be vested with supreme control. It means that there shall be no assemble and petition the Government for a redress of grievances." courts of justice. It means the return of despotic institutions. It This only limits the power of the Federal Government. It does not means that there shall be no government but the will of the few, no abridge the powers of the different States to deal with those questions. law but the resolutions of a brutal, rotten, venal committee. It m e an~ The only constitutional guaranties which the citizens of this country that autocracy, irresponsible and absolute, shall control human affairs possess with respect to freedom of speech and of the press must be It means that you and I shall desert the weak and approve unblidled sought in the State constitutions. The provisions of the New York license for the strong. It means that the " children of the fathers '' State constitution may be taken as typical. In it we find: shall slay the very soul of democracy, while the fingers of organized "Every citizen may freely speak, write, and publish his sentiments greed, idleness, and lust are clutching at the throat of the Republic. It on all subjects, being responsible for the abuse of that right; and no means that all those who own property-men, women, and children­ law shall be passed to restrain or abridge the liberty of speech or of the shall be classed as the bourgeoisie. .And why should the bourgeoisie or press." middle class, so called, be indicted? .And why have the autocrats­ Obviously the ft•amers of this instrument intended that this liberty kings, kaisers, czars, socialists, and anarchists-always combined against should be guaranteed to the citizens of the State only, whereas the them? worst abusers of free speech are aliens, domesticated or imported, who The answer is clear: This class is the sober, law-abiding, plain, every­ never intend to be loyal citizens to this or any country, even as they day people who labor and save, with their feet planted solidly on the never were loyal to their mother country. ground. They are the men who pro!luced this Nation and who have Furth<'r, while no law should be passed to prohibit any citizen from made it great ; and, what is better ,yet, they believe in the religion of freely spmking, wt·iting, or publishing his sentiments, the legislatures the Bible and the morality of the Bible's religion as the sole and only of our several States were left entirely free to determine what con­ safeguard against the evils of civil and . political despotism. Their stituted an abuse of that ·freedom. Thus, while the citizen may not be Christian belief and their moral faith save them from mot·ose pessimism prevented from expressing his opinions, he may be held responsible for and selfishness and criminal revolt against "things as they are." They the reasonable consequence of their utterance:- or publication. It follows, are the men and the women who create and sustnin civilization and therefore, that if a majority or a minority of our citizens wish to advo­ who are capable of transmitting it .to p~sterity. They are the class cate measures designed to underm1ne and destroy the fabric of our Gov­ that has. gained _tl!e control o( production .and in~ustry, and tr9m their ernment, the representatives of the people may take all due and lawful frugality has come the surplus savings, the capital that employs labor. measures to prevent the carrying out of such design by punishing the creates enterprise, and insures orderly conduct in the lives of mankind. 1929 CON:GRESSIONAL RECORD-_. SENATE 1839 Yes; they are hateervision or his jurisdiction. · in spirit what I am trying to make a provision of law. · · Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President-- Mr. JOHNSON. And he intends to do exactly that thing The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California this year, as I understand. yield to the Senator from New York? Mr. WAGNER. No, Mr. President. Mr. JOHNSON. I have but a very few moments, but I will Mr. JOHNSON. He will b'e delighted to 'have the lists of yield to the Senator. the Civil Service Commission; he will be delighted to take his Mr. WAGNER. I merely wish to ask the Senator if he has own lists; and he will take both, and, with both, endeavor to in mind any method by which he can assure us that for aU time do the best that lies in his power, he asserts, in reference · to during which this bill is to operate Mr. Steuart, for whom the the selection of individuals. Senator entertains such high regard, will have charge of its ad­ Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President, in 1910 the Civil Service ministration as Director of the Census? Commission held examinations by 5,000 examining boards. Mr. JOHNSON. Ask me not at least concerning what may Mr. JOHNSON. Under the direction of the Director of the occur in the future, either in reference to any particular appoint­ Census, by his direction. ment or in reference to any particular law. I can only judge from the fact that this gentleman has been in charge of the Mr. WAGNER. At his request. Census Office for a very considerable period of time in the past Mr. JOHNSON. Yes. He may do the same thing now. and that to remove him from his office would be a wrong UPQn Mr. WAGNER. The Senator a moment ago said- that the the people of the United States and upon the service itself. So I Director of the Census said that it was not practicable. I am can· not conceive that that will be done. giving him an instance where it was actually done. Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President, I am not certain that I made Mr. JOHNSON. But it was not done under civil-service rules. clear to the Senator the point I had in mind. I had no thought Mr. GILLETT. :Mr. President-- at all of the removal of Mr. Steuart, but he is not going to live The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California forever, while the legislation which is proposed here is to set up yield to the Senator from Massachusetts? machinery for all time, to be administered not only by Mr. Mr. JOHNSON. I yield to the Senator from Massachusetts. Steuart, the present Director of the Census, but by Directors of Mr. GILLETT. I do not think the Senator from New York the Census in the future. will maintain that all the enumerators were selected under civil Mr. JOHNSON. It sets up a machinery which will operate service in 1910. They were wherever it was feasible ; but my until the Congress shall act as it sees fit, and the Congress may recollection is that in a great many places it was not feasible. act next year or the year following that or the year subsequent Mr. JOHNSON. And, of course, that would be the fact in to that or in any other year in the future. To say that we any event. have erected here a permanent plan that never can be altered by Mr. WAGNER. I have it on the authority of the Civil Service the Congress of the United States is the most specious of argu­ Commission. ments and begs the question entirely. The VICE PRESIDENT. Senators desiring to interrupt must Here is what these gentlemen say in regard to the provisions address the Chair. of this bill. They say that they can not with the efficiency Mr. JOHNSON. Mr. President, if any Senator is interested that is desired by them and which ought to be desired by us, in observing the questionnaires that are presented by the Di­ with the celerity that the talting of th~ census requires, do the rector of the Census, I have them before me here, and I shall job under the civil service law and with civil service appoint­ be delighted to hand them to him. They are very full, very ments, with all the delay and all the consequent inactivity that complete, and they furnish the background of information which comes from such procedure. They explained to me that enu- may be sufficient to enable the director to make his selections .1842 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SEN ATE MAY 24 for efficiency, qualifications, and in the particular localities, and an increase because, he said, unless it was increased it never in order that the specific work may be done. would be diminished, and he wished to make it just as obnoxious There is the amendment. It is up to the Senate to do as it as possible, hoping in that way that a remedy would be applied. sees fit in respect to it. It never has in reality been placed I do not think that was a very sound argument, although 1 under the civil service. The query is whether you want to confess it strikes me as being as sound as some of the argo­ begin it now with short-time employmen,ts, where, with deaths, ments that have been made against this bill. resignations, and the like, the new selections must be made with For instance, the argument iS advanced that it is not fair in great rapidity, and where the right to fire ought to be instanter comity and friendliness to the House, for us to take up 'the in any man who is directing the census. matter first. I think the House will not consider it at all im- I yield the floor. · pertinent or unfriendly. On the contrary, I think they are very Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President, will the Senator yield for eager to have us pass the bill; and, of course, the real reason another question? for objecting to the Senate passing it now is the hope that it The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from California could be postponed to the regular session, when, in the same way yield to the Senator from New York? in which it has already twice been defeated in this body, it Mr. JOHNSON. I yield the floor. could be defeated again by filibustering. Mr. WAGNER. Would the Senator mind if I should ask Then there is the argument against the major-fractions sys- him a question? tern. Of course, there is an inequality, and, of course there Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, I shall be delighted to have the Sena- must be unfairness to some of the States. There always will tor ask me anything he wishes. be when there are fractions, because the fractions will be un- Mr. WAGNER. The Senator limited his discussion to the equal, and some States will not receive as favorable considera­ appointment of enumerators. What does he say about the tion or results as others. But the only way to remedy that is special agents, interpreters, and supervisors? to take a unit that can be equally contained in the population Mr. JOHNSON. The selection wlll be made in like manner. of each State without any fractions, and, of course that is Mr. WAGNER. Does the Senator approve the same method? impossible. So there always must be fractions, a~d there Mr. JOHNSON. I approve of the method if it be the appro- always must be some inequalities; and it seems 'to me that this priate method for celerity, alacrity, and efficiency. is as good a way to obt~in an approximately fair result as any. Ur. WAGNER. The Senator knows that the bill itself Mr. DALE. Mr. President, will the Senator from Massa- provides that two assistant directors are to be appointed, and chusetts yield to me? they are to be appointed formally under the civil service The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from 1\fassachu- Jaw-in other words, as the result of competitive examination. setts yield to the Senator from Vermont? Mr. JOHNSON. Oh, that is quite true; yes. Mr. GILLETT. Certainly. Mr. WAGNER. Should not Hle same rule apply to super- Mr. DALE. I understood the Senator from Massachusetts visors and special agents? to say that under the major-fractions method there always Mr. JOHNSON. I can see a very wide difference between would be inequalities where discretion would have to be used. the two. · Mr. GILLE'l'T. I did not say anything about discretion. I Mr. WAGNER. The term of office of the special agents is do not quite understand what the Senator means. not fixed at all in this law. It is not even limited to the period Mr. DALE. If the Senator from Massachusetts will allow of the census, which is three years. me, I should like to ask him if he, with the w~de knowledge Mr. JOHNSON. It would be limited as a matter of fact, of this matter, which we all know he has, does not realize that however. starting with a fixed number, 435, it would be impossible to Mr. HARRISON. I call for the yeas and nays on the amend- apply the major-fractions method without having to use dis- ment. cretion respecting at least from 1 to 2 or 3 States in order · Mr. GILLETT obtained the floor. to reach the fixed number? The VICE PRESIDENT. Let the amendment be stated. Mr. GILLETT. I did not say anything about discretion. I The Chair is advised that the printed amendment is incorrect. do not think that enters into the matter. It will be read in its correct form fo~ the information of the Mr. DALE. I am asking the Senator if he thinks the major- Senate. fractions method could possibly be applied wh~n we start with The CHIEF CLERK. The amendment of the Senator from a fixed number? Before, we never started with a fixed number; New York, as modified, is as follows: but now we start with a fixed number, and we say the Hou e On page 4, lines 2 and 3, strike out " without reference to the civil can not exceed this fixed number. Is it possible to apply the service or the classification acts" and insert in lieu thereof "subject major-fractions method to that number without using dis­ to the civil service laws but without regard to the classification act cretion as to which States shall be dropped out in order to of 1923, as amended, and without giving the appointees under this meet this fixed number? rovision a status for transfer to other positions, and direct pref- Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President, will the Senator yield P to me? erence shall be given to the disabled veterans of wars in which the The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from 1\fassachu- United States has been engaged." setts yield to the Senator from Michigan? Mr. GILLETT. ~1r. President, I appreciate that debate on Mr. GILLETT. Certainly. this question is futile. Senators have made up their minds; and Mr. VANDENBERG. I desire just briefly to say to the I dislike to take the time of the Senate uselessly, although, per- Senator from Vermont that he has two systems of major frac­ haps, in that respect I shall not be inaugurating an entirely new tions confused. The system of major fractions, as developed precedent. · by Daniel Webster in 1840, was precisely the system that the Mr. FLETCHER. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to me Senator now describes. The improvement and perfection of for ·a moment? the system of major fractions in 1910 was for the Spe€ific 1\Ir. GILLETT. Certainly. and precise purpose of getting away from the very thing the Mr. FLETCHER. I just want to say in this connection that Senator now describes, and for the precise purpose and specific my understanding now is that the present arrangement is going aim of permitting, by major fractions, a fixed membership of into effect whereby all applicants for positions as supervisors the House be assessed and ascertained. The system of major and enumerators must receive the indorsement of the national fractions, as now understood and as now standardized, is not committeeman of the Republican Party in Florida. I under- open to the objection, if the Senator will permit me, which he stand that is the holding. now describes. Mr. GILLETT. I am quite ignorant about that phase of the l\1r. DALE. Mr. President-- matter and it is not relevant to my discussion. The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from 1\fassachu- Mr. President, for 30 years I have been interested and quite setts further yield to the Senator from Vermont? active in all the reapportionments, and I wish very briefly to Mr. GILLETT. Certainly. state my position now. It happens that I have held the same Mr. DALE. I should like to ask the Senator from Michigan position on all the reapportionments, and time and· experienc~ if he takes the position that the system of major fractions, as have confirmed me in the stand I took at the beginning. set up in this bill, can be applied to a fixed number of Repre- It seems to me every.one must admit that, other things being sentatives and not have any question whatever of discretion in equal, the size of the House ought not to be increased; that it its application? ought rather to be diminished, if possible, and thereby its Mr. VANDENBERG. 1\fr. President-- efficiency would be increased. In the 1900 reapportionment, I The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Massachu-· remember, one of the ablest of the Members of the House, who setts yield to the Senator from Micbigan to answer the question? argued in favor of an increased membership, put his argument Mr. GILLETT. Certainly. on the ground that the House was too large already. It con- Mr. VANDENBERG. I not only take that po ition, I will sisted of three hundred and fifty-odd Members, but he favored _ say to the Senator, but I take it upon the authority of Dr. 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-· SENATE 1843 Joseph Hill, the statistician of the Census Bureau, who himself left at home, and none of them Imow which it is going to be. is an advocate of the system of equal proportions, but who Therefore every one of those 10 is earnest and active to see that frankly testifies that the modern system of major fractions is the bill shall be changed so that he shall not be dropped. accurate and specific and definite, and does not permit any lati­ Perhaps that is not entirely selfish. The Representatives tude or discretion. very likely think that any bill that· deprives the country of Mr. DALE. Mr. President, I do not want to take up a lot their services is an unpatriotic and unwise bill, and that it is of time in the discussion of this matter, and I am not going to less important that the membership of the House should be do so; but I think the Senator will also concede that there are diminished than that they should keep their seats. That has those who differ frotn Doctor Hill's position. always been the real motive power behind these constant in­ 1\Ir. VANDENBERG. I will discuss that in my own time. creases. Each member of the State delegations has a strong Mr. GILLETT. I think the discussion of this phase of the personal feeling that he is likely to lose his seat, and he question has gone far enough, because I was not going into the becomes an active, ardent, and very efficient lobbyist in favor details of major fractions. In fact, I do not think it is impor­ of a membership of such size that he will be kept in the House. tant. I am not certain that the other system which has been There never is as much vigor and efficiency behind a cause advocated for some years is not better ; but I am quite confident which is simply for the public good as there is behind a cause that if the other system had· been adopted in this bill the Sena­ where each Member has a personal interest. Therefore I have tors who are now attacking the system of major fractions would come to the conclusion, from my experience, that is the reason be attacking that system, because I suspect that the real purpose why the size of the House has been increased, as it has been of the opposition is to defeat the bill, no matter what system of during my service, from 357 to 435. apportionment is adopted. · A bill similar to the pending measure has twice passed the Mr. VANDENBERG. Will the Senator permit me to make House in this decade, under which the House would be kept at just one observation further at that po-int? its present size. Twice the Senate has refused to pass the bill, Mr. GILLETT. Certainly. and while, of course, we have the constitutional right, while the Mr. VANDENBERG. Regardless of what system is used, on Senate, if it is firmly convinced that this is a bad bill, should the basis of th~ 1930 estimates, it can affect only 1 seat out of not pass it, yet I think, considering the amity and friendliness 435, which bears out the Senator's statement that that is not which, it has been suggested, we ought to show to the House, really a major consideration. the opinion of the House about its own membership ought to Mr. HARRISON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to the have much weight with us, more, I believe, than as to ordinary Senato1· from Michigan to point to some evidence in the hearings bills. to substantiate his statement? Feeling as I have for 30 . years that the size of the House The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Massachu­ ought not to be increased, feeling that the House will lose effi· setts yield for that purpose? ciency if there is any increase, and inasmuch as this bill leaves Mr. GILLETT. I yield: it as it is, which is probably the best that can be done at Mr. VANDENBERG. I hesitate to intrude upon the Sena­ present, I think the Senate should, both on account of its dere­ tor's time for that purpose; I will undertake to do that in my liction in the past and on account of the need of the bill to own time. the House, pass this bill now. Mr. HARRISON. I would like to have something in the hear­ Mr. FESS. Mr. President-- ings pointed out to substantiate the statement; I can not find The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Massachu­ anything. · setts yield to the St>nator from Ohio? Mr. GILLETT. Mr. President,_the substantial and real basis Mr. GILLETT. I yield. of the objection which ~as been made to every decennial re­ Mr. FESS. The fact that the decision not to increase the apportionment has been the dissatisfaction of some States be,. membership of the House was made by the House itself seems cause they were going to lose membership. That, in my experi- to me to be an additional argument. ence: has been the vital objection every time. . Mr. GILLETT. I think so. I remember what occurred in connection with the reappprtion­ Mr. DALE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? ment of 1900-and this illustrates the fact that the Senate is Mr. GILLETT. Certainly. not without blame in all the reapportionments·. I remember Mr. DALE. I assumed that the Senator from Massachusetts that at the time of the 1900 apportionment the committee of the had concluded. House brought in a report recommending that the membership Mr. GILLETT. I have. • • should continue what it was, at 357, and at that time the feel­ 1\fr. BURTON. I would like, if I may-- ing was general that the House was too large and ought not to Mr. DALE. I just wanted to ask the Senator from Michigan be increased in number. The committee reported that it should one question. I am not going to speak at length. not be increased. The majority of the House was well under­ 1\fr, BURTON. Before the Senator from Massachusetts yields stood to be in favor of tha:t, but a day or two before the bill was the floor, I should like to interject a statement, if he will to come up for decision, an appeal wa~ made to the Senate. At permit me. that time the Senate was more· powerful politically, I think, The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator yield for that than it is to-day. There were Members of the Senate who were purpose? called " bosses," and came pretty near controlling the delegations Mr. GILLETT. I yield to the Senator from Ohio. in the House from their respective States. I remember that a Mr. BURTON. There is evidently a misapprehension. as to few days before the vote was to be. taken, a few Senators issued the application of civil-service rules to the census of 1910. What . orders, or requests, to their State delegations in the House, to was done at that time was this: The Census Bureau made out change their vote, the change was made, and the comfortable a questionnaire, and, by the courtesy, as they termed it, of the • majority in favor of keeping the membership as it was then Civil Service Commission, the questionnaires were answered in was changed, and the membership was increased from 357 to the post offices and other places where civil-service examinations about 390. If that idea which then controlled a majority of the are held. But the only function performed by those agencies of House, that the House was too large, and that it ought not to the civil service was to watch the applicants and see that they be increased, had been followed out, it very likely would always did not cheat.. Questions were answered in the presence of the have been followed. proper officials, and then we1·e sent to the Census Bureau, where Ten years later the membership WflS increased from 390 to the answers were rated, practically just the same system as is 435, for the sam8 old reason, because there were some States intended this time. A questionnaire will be sent to every appli­ which otherwise would have lost membership, and it was the cant, the answer to come back to the Census Bureau and be insistent determination of those States that the size of the rated there. So the Census Bureau is correct in this statement: House should be fixed at a figure which would make it certain that no State would lose any representation. The statements recently made in Congress carrying the idea that these Tile argument, of course, was· made that it was derogatory to appointments or any other field appointments were made, in 1910 or at any other time, through civil service, are, therefore, erroneous. the dignity of a State to lose a Representative. I do not see . . . why a State would have any less dignity or any less proportion­ Also with regard to the veto of President Roosevelt in ·1909, ate power if it had 10 Members out of 400 than if it had 5 Mem­ that did not _pertain at all to the field service, but it pertained bers out of 200. It would have the same relative rank and the to the force here in the city of Washington. It did not include same relative influence. special agents. It covered clerks and others who were employed The real trouble is not that the representation of the States here at Washington. is to be diminished; the real trouble has always been that cer­ Mr. BLACK obtained the floor. tain Members of the House are liable to lose their seats. Mr. DALE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to me just If there is a State which has 10 Representatives, and a new to ask a question of the Senator from Michigan [Mr. VANDEN­ ap:Portionment leaves it but 9, then 1 of the 10 is bound to be BERG]? .1844 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE ~fAY 24 Mr. BLACK. I yield. I desire to reply to a statement made whole argument he has been making that the bill vests no power by the Senator from Michigan. with the President of the United States to make an appor- Mr . .DALE. I want to ask the question partly for the reason tionment. Everyone knows it is discretiona1·y. Even if it that the Senator from Michigan has suggested that I am mixed were not discretionary, the multitudes of figures which con­ up. Perhaps I am, but I would like to ask him how he would found even my friend from Michigan show that he does not deal with this kind of a case. If, with the application of the dare rise in his place and defend any position with reference major-fraction method, there were no question as to 434 Mem- to major fractions, so that even if he, with all the astute study bers of the House, and there were 3 Members over who had he has made of this question, were designate<} by the Presi­ to be dealt '\"\ith, and by the major-fraction method they were dent to serve in the capacity of determining how many Repre­ from States each of which had a major fraction of 150, to which sentatives his State and the State of Alabama should have, State would he give that one seat? he would still be compelled, as he was finally compelled to Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. Pre ident-- say in his answer to the Senator from Vermont, to state, "It The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Alabama is discretionary with me to say how many Representatives each yield to the Senator from Michigan? State shall have, and I shall exercise that discretion as it best Mr. BLACK. I yield. suits me." Mr. V~"'DE"NBERG. My understanding of the method of 1\lr. VANDENBERG. l\1r. President-- major fractions is that, in its refined, modern application, as The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Alabama understood by all the experts and all the scientists, it absolutely yield to the Senator from Michigan? produces, through the choice of a proper divisor, dividend, and Mr. BLACK. I yield. quotient, only a major fraction in sufficient States so that the Mr. VAJ\TDEJ\TBERG. I simply want to dissent from the total of the whole numbers and the major fractions equals the statement that the Senator from Michigan does not dare rise total limit set by the House upon its own membership. In other in his place and defend major fractions. In due course, when words, if I have not made that plain, i! you start with a House that point is before the Senate, the Senator from Michigan of 435 Members, under the modern method of major fractions, will be very glad to rise in his place and uiscu s major frac­ as differentiated from the method of major fractions in Daniel tions and point out specifically where the junior Senator from Webster's day, you can produce a House of 435 Members in Alabama has misquoted the application of major fractions which every State with a major fraction will have a Repre- more than once in his discussion of the problem. sentati're. Mr. BLACK. The Senator from Michigan, with all of his Mr. DALE. · I do not think I am less mixed up than I was ability, will not be able to do that. But he will have to re- before, even with the Senator's explanation. member that he has just stated to the Senator from Vermont Mr. VANDENBERG. I can forgive the Senator for perplex- that he did not dare, even with all the study he has given the ity, because I can assure him that six months spent upon this question, to attempt to explain. That is not his exact Ian­ subject leaves me still very timid in its defense or explanation, guage-- and that applies to any method of handling remainders. Mr. VANDENBERG. No; far from it. Mr·. DALE. I would like to ask the Senator from Michigan Mr. BLACK. That is what he meant. He said, in substance, once more what he would do if there were several States with " Even as much as I ha:ve studied it, I hesitate to answer ques­ equal major fractions, ·and there was one. seat to provide for. tions of th~ Senator from Vermont." Why? It is because it is Mr. VANDENBERG. The Senator is asking an absolutely an absolute metaphysical calculation. The President of the absurd question, from my point of view, because when these United States can not perform it and no President of the United figures run up into the millions, and the calculations of the States that we have ever had, with the possible exception of one, various districts run up into the hundreds of thousands, it is could have solved the problem. After .all, it must be turned over simply inconceivable to me that the actual fraction would be to another bureau and then the President may come in and say preci ely the same to a single integer. The Senator is consult- to the Senator from Nebraska, "Your State is entitled to seven ing perfection in seeking his rule, and I do not think it is Congressmen." The Senator from Nebraska will say, "I have thoroughly pertinent. an expert mathematician who says Nebraska ought to have Mr. DALE. Then the Senator would concede, if that did make eight." The Pregident will send that report to Congress. Every­ out an equal major fraction, that discretion would have to be body knows we can not get anything through Congress over the applied? objection of the President, at least in a short session. Where Mr. YANDENBERG. And the Senator would al o say that do we stand? The result is that Nebraska gets seven Repre­ that same situation would apply to the use of any system for sentatives because the President has said it should hav-e seven. handling remainders. That is the bill the Senator is defending. That is the bill which Mr. DALE. There is no question about that; in the use of prompts the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. GILLETT] to any method discretion would have to be used. rise in his place and make the statement that those who op- Mr. v A.J..~"DENBERG. To intrude just a little further on the pose it are in opposition to it on account of the fact that their courtesy of my good friend from Alabama, in my own time, I State will lose a Representative. would like to say to the Senator from Vermont that he certainly I do not know whether Alabama will lose a Representative is entitled to be forgiven for perplexity on the question of major or not, and neither does anyone else. I am in favor of a fractions and equal proportions, because I have in my hand a reapportionment bill at the time when the census is to be taken very earnest appeal from six newspapers of the State of Ver- by constitutional methods by the Congress of the United States mont begging Congress to kill the pending bill, because it pro- delegated by the Constitution with that power. But I am op­ vides for equal proportions when it ought to provide for major posed to a Republican President or a Democratic President or fractions, whereas I am perfectly sure they mean precisely the any other kind of a President telling the Congress "This many opposite thing. you shall have and no more." l\lr. BLACK. Mr. President, that is an illustration which The Senator from Michigan takes the position on the pending I am delighted the Senator brought out. I am glad he brought amendment with reference to civil service that he has now it out because the Senator from Massachusetts [Mr. GILLETI'], called in some one from the Census Bureau and has found out who, I am sorry, has left the Chamber, left the inference that what they are going to do. I am glad some member of the every man who opposed the bill opposes it because his State committe-e has called in somebody with reference to the bill, would lose a Representative. That inference is not correct. because it is evidently the first hearing whatsoever upon it by It is not even founded on a proper interpretation of the facts. the committe-e. My recollection is that the first time they held So far as I am concerned, I favor a reapportionment each 10 a so-called hearing it lasted perhaps 20 minutes, and the second years by the Congress upon whom the duty devolves according time about 30 minutes. I think that is the statement which to the Constitution; but the Senator from 1\Iichigan, in his- was made. happy and apt illustration, finally admitted to the Senator from Mr. JONES. 0 1\Ir. President, the Senator is mistaken in Vermont that there was a discretion to be exercised not only that. We had practically a day of hearings. on major fractions but on every other method ; but when he :Mr. BLACK. How many witnesses were called? admitted that, lover of the Constitution as he is, he admitted Mr. JONES. I do not remember. also that he is supporting a bill to turn over to the President l\fr. BLACK. Where is the record? of the United States a discretionary power to determine how Mr. JONES. There are printed copies of the hearings avail· many Representatives shall be assigned to the States of Ala- able. bama and Michigan. He can not get around that fact. There Mr. BLACK. I have not been able to find out about it. [A is no way of evading it. copy of the hearings was handed to Mr. BLAcK.] I now have When the Senator from Michigan finally admitted to the the hearings before me. We have here the evidence: Statement Senator from Vermont that there is a discretionary power on of Hon. Robert P. Lamont, the new Secr·etary of Commerce; tne part of the President, he knocked from under his feet the I statement of Hon. Al.BE&T JoHNsoN. Representative from the 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-- SENA~E · fl845 State of Washington; statement of H. H. Laughlin, Cold Springs Mr. WALSH of Montana. The Senator was aske·d an ex­ Harbor, Long Island-that is one page-and statement of Mr. planation of where the discretion would remain. Will he ex­ Steuart, Director of the Census. plain where the discretion would remain in the case of the two When this question comes up for a vote I have an amendment States where the fractions were exactly the same? A. con­ which will be presented which would leave the matter for the tingency of that sort is rather remote. Congress to determine. Of course, I know it is very unpopular Mr. BLACK. I shall be glad to do it. Some years ago we to try to keep anything out of the hands of the President in had a census taken. It is claimed that in the State of Mary­ these days. He is supposed to have all power. Whenever the land-with what truth I do not know-they counted the tomb­ question arises whether troops are needed to be sent to Nica­ stones in certain places. Of course, when the Congress began ragua,· in the old days Congress decided it, but to-day the to determine how many Representatives should have, Pre.jdent decides it. Whenever it becomes necessary to send they had to pass upon that census. troops to Haiti, to-day the President decides that question; They could determ1ne whether it was fraudulent at a certain but in the old days, when war was to be declared, Congress did place. If they concluded that there was any uncertainty about it. When it becomes necessary to send our boys down into South it, they could have waited until an investigation had been made America-and I may be permitted parenthetically to call the and thus determine it. Under the terms of the bill now before attention of the Senate to the fact that in Nicaragua there have us, 'if we were faced with a situation of that kind it would not been more casualties in proportion to the number of our men reach Congress but at the short session, when the Senator knows engaged there than occurred in the entire World War. When, the difficulty with which anything could be gotten through over however, the question is presented to the Government as to the protest of the President, the President would send in for whether we shall declare war and whether we shall send troops the State of Maryland the number of Representatives to which there, the President does it. But when an effort is made by the State would be entitled. · Even though the Congress may some one who believes Congress should legislate, that the rep­ know there was some fraud there, yet here is the ipsi dixit of resentatives of the people still have a few powers left; to so the President, whose mandate must be obeyed. There have provide in the bill, it is voted down. When the question comes always been some-! would not say there are some now-who up as to who shall fix the tariff in order to determine how much consider as sacred any words which fall from the mouth of the revenue shall be raised, the older people thought this was a Chief Executive of this Nation on any occasion when he speaks. government where the legislative representatives of the people Mr. BRATTON. Mr. President-- should decide the question ; but to-day that idea has been aban­ The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. SAOKE:rT in the chair). doned, and we have come to the time when none can do it except Does the Senator from .Alabama yield to the Senator from New the President under the flexible conditions of legislative powers. Mexico? Then, not content with that, when the time comes to deter­ Mr. W A.LSH of Montana. Mr. President, will the Senator mine how many Representatives the people shall have from each yield further to me before yielding to the Senator from New State, following the precedents of the President of the United Mexico? States sending troops to South America and declaring war, Mr. BLA.OK. Very well. following the precedents of the President of the United States Mr. W A.LSH of Montana. That, it seems to me, is answer­ determining how much the tariff shall be, Senators say, " It is ing my question. That indicates that the President has no dis· unpopular now to vote against anything that has the name of cretion. We must apportion by including the tombstones if reapportionment; therefore the man who dares to raise his they are included in the enumeration, and we must take into voice against it is against reapportionment." So the bill is consideration everything else-- brought in here hurriedly from the committee, the committee Mr. BLACK. Oh, no. presents it to this body and says that the President of the Mr. W A.LSH of Montana. We must take the figures of the United States shall, under a discretionary power which the census report. Senator from Michigan says he has under the major fractions, Mr. BLACK. I do not so construe it. determine how many Representatives Massachusetts shall Mr. WALSH of Montana. I do. I should certainly have an have, how many New York shall have, and how many California entirely different idea about it if the President were entitled shall have. to revise the census reports as a basis for his action. Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President, may I ask the Senator Mr. BLACK. Why should he not be, when he is the one who a question? is supposed to be at the head of it? Mr. BLACK. I am delighted to yield. Mr. W A.LSH of Montana. That is not the question. The Mr. VANDENBERG. I will ask it· in my own time so as question I am eager to have information about is, Wherein does not to deprive the Senator from Alabama of any of his time. the discretion of the President come under the provisions of Mr. BLACK. I think the Senator yielded to me, so I am this measure? glad to yield to him. Mr. BLACK. That i~ one of them, and I will give the Sen­ The VICE PRESIDENT. Let the Chair state that Senators ator some others. may not divide the time in that way. Under the unanimous­ Mr. W A.LSH of Montana. That is not one. He is not en· consent agreement no Senator may speak more than once on titled to disregard names on tombstones. If the names on tomb· the bill or on any amendment. If the Senator from Michigan stones go into the census report, he is obliged to apportion on is proposing to take any time for himself, the Chair must remind the basis of tombstone names. him that his time has expired on the amendment. Mr. SWANSON. Mr. President-- Mr. BLACK. I yield to the Senator out of my time. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ala­ Mr. VANDENBERG. I do not want a misconception to be bama yield to the Senator from ? reached regarding the colloquy between myself and the Senator Mr. BLACK. I yield. from Vermont [Mr. D.ALE]. I find that in answering him I did Mr. S'V.ANSON. A.s I understand, the Senator from 1\Ion· not understand specifically his. question. I now understand his tana says, after reading the bill carefully, that the President question was, if there are an equal number of persons in each is bound and has no discretion under its terms; so that if there remainder, how would a selection be made as between those should be glaring frauds all over the country he would be remainders? The answer to that question is, and I am very compelled to make the apportionment according to the census. sorry if I misunderstood him before, that any remainder which Mr. W A.LSH of Montana. I should say so, beeause, as I has a major fraction, whether there be two or three or six of Understand, he is not authorized to disregard any numbers upon the same size, would be included within the representative any ground. group tliat resulted from the application of the system of major Mr. SWANSON. I should like to ask the Senator from fractions as practiced to-day. Michigan if that is his view? I understand the Senator from Mr. BLACK. I am delighted to have that explanation. That Montana to say that if the census returns shall be shown to be is as clear and as lucid as anything that could be said about reeking with frauds the President will have no power to correct major fractions or that we can read in any of the hearings. I them; that he must follow the census returns as certified, re­ feel sure that all Senators who heard that explanation under­ gardless of the fraud that may be involved. Is that tl1e view stand exactly all about major fractions. Senators can under­ of the Senator from Michigan? stand how easy it is to lay down the rule which permits the Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President, if the Senator from President of the United States through a subordinate to deter­ Alabama will yield to me to answer the question-- mine bow many Congressmen shall represent the people of their The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ala­ State and my State. Oh, yes; it is easy; and that is the bill bama yield to the Senator from Michigan? that Senators are attempting to hurry through this session of Mr. BLACK. I yield for a reply to the question. Congress. Mr. VANDENBERG. The Senator thinks up a question in Mr. W A.LSH of Montana. Mr. President-- rather fantastic fashion so that the answer is bound to be Mr. BLACK·. I yield to the Senator from Montana. embarrassln.g, no matter what it is. 1846 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE MAY 24 Mr. SWANSON. I will make it easier for · the Senator if he Hayes~ to determine who shall be the President of the United desires. States. That is the reason. Mr. VANDENBERG. I understand that the Senator is trying Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President-- to embarrass me. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ala­ Mr. SWANSON. I am not trying to embarrass the Senator; bama yield to the Senator from 1.\Iaryland? I am trying to get the facts. Mr. BLACK. I yield. l\Ir. V Al"\fDENBERG. 1.\Iy answer is that the Senator from 1\fr. TYDINGS. Why should we be so considerate about l\lontana is entirely correct. There is absolutely no discretion Congress when Congress for 10 years has denied to a number in name or nature reposed in the President in connection with of States their constitutional right to representation? the administration of this proposed act. Mr. BLACK. I explained that a few days ago. I am sorry l\Ir. S'V ANSON. 1.\Ir. Pre ident-- the Senator was not here at the time. If the Senator will Mr. BLACK. Mr. President, I ask to be· allowed to proceed, investigate the debates in the Constitutional Convention, he because my time is practically up. will find that the Constitution did not make the enumeration The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator from Alabama provision mandatory. On the contrary, its members expressly declines to yield further . voted down three separate amendments intended to make it .Mr. BLACK. In the first place, I am inclined to think that mandatory; and Mr. 1.\Iason, of Virginia, went back to his that interpretation of the bill is wrong; but if it is right, it State and fought the Constitution after it was adopted, one makes the situation still worse and makes of this bill a stench of his main grounds of oppo ition being that the convention in the nostrils of decent people. Is it true that the President, had not made mandatory the provision for reapportionment. in determining the number of people in the State of Maryland, Mr. TYDINGS. Mr. President-- for instance, though, we will say, names on tombstones have The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ala­ been counted, is compelled to take the names taken from tomb­ bama yield again to the Senator from Maryland? stones and award to the State of Maryland a certain number of Mr. BLACK. I yield again to the Senator from Maryland. Representatives? 1.\.lr. TYDINGS. I would say to the Senator that, arguing 1\Ir. BRATTON. 1.\.Ir. President, will the Senator yield for a strictly from the letter of the Constitution, be may be right, question? but it is the essence and whole philosophy of this Government The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ala­ that wherever there is one group of American citizens and bama yield to the Senator from New Mexico? there another group of American citizens, each of those :Mr. BLACK. I yield for a question, but my time is prac­ groups is entitled to the s~1me representation, which, under the tically out. policy of Congress for the last 10 years, bas been denied. The · 1.\.Ir. BRATTON. The Senator from Alabama indicates that whole philosophy of our Government is " equal rights to all, the President would be compelled to be guided entirely by the and special privileges to none " ; that is a tenet of the Senator's figures of the census. own party, and to give one State representation based on its Mr. BLACK. No; I stated it the other way. population while denying representation to another State cer­ Mr. BRATTON. Let me state my question in this way: The tainly not only contravenes the spirit . of the Constitution but Senator insists that the Congress, if it shall make the reappor­ the philosophy of the Senator's own party. tionment, may re$erve unto itself the power to inquire into Mr. BLACK. I am delighted to have the Senator make that fraud or the lack of fraud in taking the census. I should like statement. If he had been here the other day-- to know whether the Congre~· s has ever exercised that power; Mr. TYDINGS. ·I was here and heard the Senator speak. that is, in making a reapportionment, has it ever declined to Mr. BLACK. I said then that personally I agreed with the follow the figures of the census? views expressed by the Senator a moment ago; not that it is 1.\Ir. BLACK. l\1y understanding is that one of the chief rea­ the spirit of the Constitution, for it is not, because the members sons urged against reapportionment, following the census of of the Constitutional Convention expre ·sly declined to put it in 1920, was that there were certain frauds and inaccuracies in the Constitution when the argument was made which the Sena­ connection with it; and the debate so shows. However, it is tor has just made. An argument was made insisting that it very simple tb understand that the Congress, which has the be put in and made mandatory, but the men who wrote the power of reapportioning and determining the number of its Constitution-and I do not think the Senator will dispute they Members, has the power at the same time to pass upon the were reasonably wise men-took the position and said in their census and say whether or not it is correct. In other words, it is speeches that they would not do it because they did not want a supervisory body in determining the number of Representa­ to tie the· hands of Congress, but wanted to leave it free to tives. Its power is taken away from it under the interpreta­ apportion or not to apportion as it saw fit. Personally I agree tion which the Senator from :Michigan says is properly given that apportionment should be made every 10 years; I would to this bill. In other words, when the President makes an have voted 10 years ago for apportionment if I had been here; allotment according to the cen us, right or wrong, then he sticks I shall vote for apportionment the next time; and I shall vote to it, and then the Congress will abide by it, for we do not find for reapportionment on each succeeding censu ; but I deny Congresses every day overriding the decision of the President, that it is a breach of the Constitution to take the other either at a short or a long ses,Jon. It is not easy to do that, ground; and I assert that any man who will study the Consti­ and :ret those who are advocating this bill would shackle the tution will find that apportionment is not mandatory, was never people, they would· tie the hands of their Representatives, they intended to be mandatory, and the framers of that document would say to the people of the country," You can haYe represen­ expressly declined to make it mandatory. tation in your State according to a report made by the Presi­ 1.\Ir. TYDINGS. Will the Senator yield further? dent, according to a· report made to the President by a subordi­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ala­ nate, according to a system of major fractions," which no man bama yield to the Senator from Maryland? has explained satisfactorily on this floor and no man can ex­ Mr. BLACK. For a question; but I have practically ex­ plain. lVe can do this, although we know that under that sys­ hausted my time. tem the last time it was employed four States, including the Mr. TYDINGS. I should like to· say to the Senator that I State of New l\lexico. lost a Repre ·entative, notwithstanding am going to support his amendme.nt not to put this up to the the fact that under the clear figures its people were entitled President, but I say the situation we have gotten ourselves into to the additional representation. We know that somebody in is our own fault. Had we done what it is our duty to do we that instance exerci ed the discretion; that some problem was would not have been in this situation, and now we reap the solved by the principles of calculus or higher mathematics. consequence of our dilatory tactics. 1Vho is going to cletermine whether or not that problem was l\Ir. BLACK. I agree with the Senator that reapportionment soh·ed correctly? The President. Who else? No one. Why? should have occurred. I was for it; I would have voted for it Because. as the !Jill i brought in here, its proponents are not before a,_nd I shall vote for it next time. I shall try, however, even willing to po tpone action beyond the short session. They to strike out the unfair method of major fractions. But, irre­ come into this Congress, knowing that nothing can be done in spective of that, it is my judgme~t that reapportionment should a short session to oYerride the President, and they say to this be had: · Congress, "No; we will not give you an inch; we stand for the It is my judgment, further, that when the census shall be centralization of po>vver in the bands of the President, and we taken it ought to be taken by men who are free of political bias stand for tying the hands of Congress by limiting the possibility and political prejudice. What earthly reason is there to say of action to a short ses o.:·ion."' They will not even yield enough that it is fair to have the merit system in one department of to postpone it until the Congress ·can stay here a sufficient the Government and not in another? Those wb o favor the bill 1 length of time to act. Why? Because. the President of the as it stands say that that is not the issue; tha:t the gentleman United State: is given the power under this measure, irr case ·who will direct the--taking of the census will n'l't be influenced 1 of an election as close as that of the race between Tilden and :by political bias; but a statement has been mjlde Qn the floor I ~929 CONGRESSIONA:U RECORD-SENATE tl847- by the Senator from Pennsylvania, who claims it is Republican that is, so far as they may. The final ap-pointment is really .Pie and a letter to that effect has been read. Yet the proponents made by the Director of the Census. of thls Mll say the places will not be given out as "pie," That Mr. CARAWAY. ·I am not bothering about that. is the situati.)n. l\fr. JONES. I am going to meet what the Senator has in - I insist that the amendment of the Senator from New York mind, I think. Our delegation has an understanding that. the providing that those employed in taking the census shall be Senator has nothing to do with the selection of the superVISors appointed under civil-service rules is fair and just. It is not ~ or enumerators. question of party ; it is not a question of Democrat or &:publi­ Mr. CARAWAY. He gets nothing out of that'1 can· it is a question of whether we really and honestly m our Mr. BORAH. That is a matter of self-defense. hearts believe in appointing men on merit or believe in appoint­ Mr. JONES. The Representatives were glad to have that; ·ing them as a reward for political and party services. and, as I said a while ago, I would rather have no political The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amend­ appointments than any, so far as that is concerned. ment proposed by the Senator from New York [Mr. WAGNER]. Mr. CARAWAY. Is the Senator to be influential with the Mr. JONES. Mr. President, I wish to say a few words about Representatives? the pending amendment. The reason why the ainendment should Mr. JONES. Not at all. not be adopted was very fully, clearly, and ably presented on Mr. CARAWAY. This is a sort of an executive session, you yesterday by the Senator from Ohio [Mr. BURTON] ~nd to-day know, and the Senator can speak frankly. by the Senator from California [Mr. JoHNSON], and It probably Mr. JONES. No; there is nothing executive about it The is not necessary for me to say_anything about it; but I feel th~t Senator, so far as I am concerned, has nothing to do with the I should say merely a few words anyway as to my position with selection of these supervisors and these enumerators. reference to it. - . Mr. SWANSON. ·Mr. President, I was not in the Senate · I yield to no man on this floor .or els~where in ~evoti?n to Chamber, and did not learn what the understanding was in re­ and belief in the principles (}f civil ~rvice. I rather think I gard to these appointments. would be far more extreme jn that regard than would be a good Mr. CARAWAY. It will not do the Senator from Virginia inany who really favor civil servic~. . . . any good. He will not get any of them. · · I have heretofore introduced bills m the Senate seekmg to Mr. JONES. I am just talking about my own situation. I place United States marshals, United States attorneys, and si~­ know nothing about the others. I have understood that Mr. lar officials under civil service. I am in favor of that; I thmk Steuart, the Director of the-Census, . is a Democrat in politics. It would be best for the Government and best for administra­ I do not know. I have not asked him. I have not talked to tions if that were done. So I should be gla~ to see the ~nunu;:ra­ him about it; but that is the impression I have had, at any ·rate. tors, supervisors, s:Pecial ag~nts, a~d ?thers engag~ m taking I am satisfied, however, that, even so, Mr. Steuart is not seeking the census all put under civil semce if I thought, It best t.o ~o to exercise any partisan influence .in the selection of these ·it or if it were practicable. I do not, however, thu:k that It IS. enumerators and supervisors. On the contrary, I think it would be very impracticable. I do Mr. SWANSON. Does the Senator know to what extent the · not say that the principle coJild not be_applied to the Stat~ of arrangement-in .his State will apply to other States? ! New York or to some of the thickly populated sections; POSSibly Mr. JONES. I know nothing about that. I have not .con- ~ we .might be able to do that even, under· the conditio?s in which cerned myself about it. the census must be taken. As I see it, however, It wo_uld be Mr. TYDINGS, Mr. WAGNER, and others addressed the wholly impracticable in the-larger States in my section of the Chair. , country. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Dees the Senator from Wash­ I will frankly say that I recognize there may be sought to ington yield ; and to whom? be made some little politics out of the appointment o~ ~ensus Mr. SWANSON. I have not finished yet enumerators, supervisors, and so on. I am perfectly Willing to Mr. .SMOOT. The Senator from Virginia wants to play with concede that. We are all human, and I suppose that, no matter the Senator from Washington for a while. what the administration might be, there might be some who Mr. SWANSON. No;. I want to know about this, because it · would seek to bring about political effects by these appointments, is a matter of importance to the people who want to take this but for myself, from a political standpoint, r hfi:d.rather have. no census. appointments whatever to make. From a political standpomt, 1 · Mr. JONES. I told the Senator frankly so far as my knowl­ my judgment is that the p:1aking o~ ap]Jointments is a source of edge goes. 1 weakness rather than of strength. ' However, to my notion it is not a question of politics he.re, Mr. SWANSON. That that would be the system pursued in I and I wish to say this in that regard: I have conferred With the Senator's case '1 · · Mr. JONES. Yes. 1 some gentlemen in a certain portion. of my State who ~ expect ' to have as supervisors. I have adVIsed them that I will have Mr. SWANSON. That the Congressmen will name the super­ I nothing ·whatever to do with the appointment of enumerators; visors in each congressional district? Mr. JONES. So far as they can, except, let me say frankly­ 1 that the first and highest consideration is an efficient and proper ! do not want to misrep-resent anything-we have one- district 1 census of the people; and whoever may be appointed as super- that is represented by a Democratic Congressman. 1 visor _is to be held responsible for the accomplishment of that i result. Others may not look at the matter as I do; but, never­ - Mr. CARAWAY. He gets nothing. Mr. SW Al'lSON. He will proceed to have a Republican ! theless as I said a while ago, if it is sought to make politics appointed in that district by the Senator from Washington. 1 out of' these appointments, I think it is a source of weakness rather than of strength. Mr. JONES. I handle that; but I will say to the Senator If we had a Democratic administration, -I feel that I should that in the selection of my supervisors I have conferred with Ilook at this matter in exactly the same way. What we want is my Democratic colleague in the House and my Democratic col­ an efficient, proper, correct, and adequate census of the people. league here, because our relations are of the most friendly char­ No matter what our politics may be, all of us want that brought acter, and I should be glad to have them make the appointments. I Mr. SWANSON. ·I understand, the Senator has made 1 about. I believe that to put_all these enumerators, supervisors, As 1 and so forth, under civil service would not accomplish that arrangements so that none except Republicans can be appointed · purpose. · in his State? · Let me call attention to this fact in regard to the selection of Mr. JONES. No; we have not made any such arrangement the enumerators and supervisors: as that-- The enumerators and supervisors are not selected in the final Mr. SMOOT. The Senator ought to. analysis as we might say, by the local people. Under this bill Mr. JONES. Although I am inclined .to think that that is . the Dir~ctor of the Census really and finally appoints the what they are carrying out. · . supervisors and enumerators. Mr. SWANSON. That is what will occur? l Mr. CARAWAY. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to me'1 Mr. JONES. That, I think, is what will occur so far as the The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Wash­ super.visors are concerned. - ington yield to the Senator from Arkansas? Mr. SWANSON. And the Senator is satisfied that he will get Mr. JONES. Certainly. better appointments ill that way than he would by a civil-service Mr. CARAWAY. Is it ·not the understanding, however, that .examination of the relative merits of the candidates, irrespective the Senators will recommend certain ones of them, and the of party? House Members the others? Will not the enumerators, for _in- Mr. JONES. I think so, for the things that are to be ac­ stance, go to the House Members? . · complished. Mr. JOI\T])S. I can say frankly to the -Senator that so far as Mr. SW..t\NSON. What is the accomplishment? Is any poli­ my State is concerned-! speak for nobody else--:-the House tics to be accomplished -in it, _outside of taking the c~nsus 1 Members appoint the supervisOrs, !Uld they have full oo~trol; A.i:e any partisan accomplishments considered in it? 1848 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE. MAY 24' Mr. JONES. Not so far as I am concerned; not a particle. · Several Senators addressed the Chair. Mr. SWANSON. The Sen~tor will be disposed to recommend The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senate will be in order. Democrats who are superior to Republicans? Mr. McKELI.JAR. Mr. President-- - Mr. SMOOT. '.rhere are none. . Mr. JONES. I yield to the Senator from Tennessee. . Mr. JONES. I am not making these recommendations. As Mr. McKELLAR. The Senator from Washington has just I said a while ago, I have absolutely nothing whatever to do pointed out in a very frank, open way-which is characteristic with the selection of enumerators. of the Senator at all times about all things:_the method in · l\fr. SWANSON. Enumerators? which these supervisors and enumerators are to be appointed. Mr. JONES. No. He has stated that in his State, and presumably in every State, 1\Ir. SWANSON. Only supervisors? these supervisors are to be appointed by the Republican Con­ Mr. JONES. I have nothing to do with them, except in the gressmen, with the approval, of course, of the Republican Sena­ one district. tor or Senators, and that he supposes that the supervisors will Mr. McKELLAR. Mr. President, will the Senator yield. in turn appoint the enumerators. He has been very frank Mr. JONES. I yield. about it. l\fr. McKELLAR. The Senator said he had nothing to do Mr. JONES. Just a moment in that connection. I stated with the appointment of enumerators. If the Senator and his that the final appointment is made by the director. colleagues in the House select the supervisors, under the bill Mr. McKELLAR. I was just going to call the Senator's at­ the supervisors have authority to appoint the enumerators. tention to the bill. It does not say a word about this method of Mr. JONES. No. appointment. The bill in that respect provides as follows : Mr. McKELLAR. And therefore your appointees will appoint the enumerators, in accordance with the desires of the delega- That special agents, supervisors, supervisors' clerks, enumerators, and tion, of course? · interpreters may be appointed by the Director of the Census to carry Mr. JONES. I will say frankly that in the district ·where out the provisions of this act. I have selected the supervisors, or expect to, I have told the Mr. JONES. I stated that. supervisors that I· would have nothing whatever to do with Mr. McKELLAR. :As a matter of fact, the Senator has just the selection of the enumerators ; that they would be held re­ frankly admitted that it is not intended that the Director of sponsible for an adequate and proper and efficient enumeration the Census shall exercise this power-- of the people. Mr. JONES. Oh, no! Mr. SWANSON and Mr. CARAWAY addressed the Chair. Mr. McKELLAR. But that it is going to be exercised, in The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator yield; and if substance .and in fact, by the Republican Senators and Con­ so, to whom? gressmen from each State; and the Director of the Census will Mr. JONES. If they select Democratic enumerators, that simply be called upon to carry out those appointments. is entirely satisfactory to me. Mr. JONES. No; the Senator now is putting in my mouth Mr. McKELLAR. But the Senator doubts in his own mind words that I did not utter, and putting upon them a construction that his appointees will select Democrats? that I did not make. Mr. JONES. No; I should not be surprised if they select Mr. McKELLAR. I do not see how the Senator can possibly some good Democrats in a good many cases. evade that construction. Mr. SWANSON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to me? Mr. JONES. I am not seeking to evade anything. Mr. JONES. Yes. Mr. McKELLAR. I do not mean that in an improper sense, Mr. SWANSON. This is a very interesting question to me as the Senator knows, because I am devoted to the Senator. I and to most people who have applicants for these various admire him, and I admire his honesty and sincerity. He has places. Is this understanding of the Senator with the President} come before the Senate and has told the exact truth about the or with Mr. Steuart, the director? matter-that while the statute provides that Mr. Steuart, the Mr. JONES. What understanding does the Senator refer to? Director of the Census, is to have the power to make these ap. Mr. SWANSON. That the Senator would name the super­ pointments, as a matter o~ fact they are going to be made by the visors in the districts represented by Democrats, and the Re­ Republican Congressmen and Republican Senators. publican Congressmen would name the supervisors in the dis­ Mr. JONES. No; what I meant-if I did not say it, I had it tricts represented by them? in mind-was that we will recommend, af course, to the Mr. JONES. I have had no understanding whatever with Director of the Census. Director Steuart. Mr. CARAWAY . . And he will accept. Mr. SWANSON. With the President, then? Mr. JONES. I assume that he will, unless he has good Mr. JONES. Why, certainly not. I have never mentioned reason not to; but if the Director of the Census has good the matter to the President. I nave talked to my Democratic reason to believe that a man whom we are recommending for colleagues in the Senate and in the House. supervisor or that men whom the supervisor may recommend Mr. McKELLAR. Mr. President-- for enumerators ~re - not the right kind of men, that they are Mr. SWANSON. There is no understanding, but the Senator not proper, of course he will not approve their appointment. hopes the matter will be consummated in that way in his State? Mr. FESS, Mr. BURTON, Mr. SWANSON, and Mr. WAGNER Mr. JONES. I did not say I hoped to have it done; I expect addressed the Chair. it to be done. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Wash­ Mr. SWANSON. Was any arrangement made in this under­ ington yield; and if so, to whom? standing about Democratic Senators in connection with super­ Mr. JONES. The Senator from Ohio [Mr. FEss] has been on visors? his feet for some time. I yield to him. Mr. JONES. My Democratic colleague does not desire to Mr. FESS. Mr. President, I desire to suggest that I think have that done. He appreciates the situation. the Senator's statement has been misinterpreted or misunder­ Mr. CARAWAY. He knows he will get nothing, and therefore stood. Certainly the Director of the Census has never said at he does not hope for it. · any time tha,t he would allow a Republican Congressman to Mr. JONES. He feels a good deal like I do, I think, about name the supervisor. these appointments. If this were a Democratic administration, Mr. JONES. Not at aiL I should be delighted to have my Dem<1cratic colleague make Mr. FESS. I · called on the director, after this attack had the appointments out there. So far as that is concerned, I am been made by the Senator from Pennsylvania [Mr. REED], to perfectly willing for him to take tile responsibility now. consult him about the basis of that statement, and all that he Mr. SWANSON. But the Senator does not know what will be told me was that he was consulting the various chambers of done in these States tllat have Democratic Senators-what dis­ commerce and other leaders in the community; and he said, position will be made of this patronage in States that have "Of course, I would include in the consultation the R-epresenta­ Democratic Senators and no Republican Senators? tives in Congress as well as the Senators." Certainly, however, Mr . .JONES. I do not. I never got any intimation that the recommendation of a Re­ :Mr. SMOOT, Mr. FESS, and others addressed the Chair. publican Congressman is going to be the final determinant of the The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does th~ Senator from Wash­ appointment. I think it is uufair to Mr. Steua,rt to say that. ington yield ; and to whom? 1\Ir. JONES. I certainly did not intend to convey any impres- 1\Ir. .JONES. I want to say just a few words, but I yield sion of that sort; just to the contrary. to the Senator from Utah. J.\.1r. BURTON. Mr. President-- Mr. SMOOT. I desire to say to the Senator from Virginia Mr. JONES. I yield to the junior Senator from Ohio. that if he had very many more Democrats in the Government Mr. BURTON. There is one fact that seems to have been service here he would have a great percentage of the whole of overlooked here, and that is that neither supervisors nor the employees of our Government. They are Democrats, and enumerators can be appointed without answering a very elabo­ they have never been disturbed. ~ate que-Stionn~i!:e. T~a,t questionnaire goes to the Bureau of 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE 1849 the Census, and fs passed upon there before any of them are petent for census enumerators; they are not persons who would appointed. like to have those jobs, so far as that is concerned. I do not Mr. SWANSON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to me? know of any of them from my State, and I want fo say I Mr. OVERMAN. Mr. President, the newspapers in my State would very seriously object to bringing enumerators Into my report that the supervisors have all been recommended by the State· from some other State, or taking them into one certain national chairman, and have been appointed. district from some other district. The enumerators who are to Mr. BURTON. I think that must be an error. number the inhabitants of any particular locality ought to be Mr. SWANSON. Mr. President, will the Senator yield to from that locality; they ought to be persons who are acquainted, me? at least in a general way, with the conditions there and the Mr. McKELLAR. If the Senator will permit me, the super­ people there. It sems to me that no one, not even the Senator visor in my immediate city has already been appointed. The from New York, would want enumerators to come into his State bill has not passed, and yet he has been appointed. from the State of Washington to enumerate the people in any Mr. JONES. I am not talking about the action in other particular district in his State, for instance, in the State of New States, so far as that is eoncerned. I can not believe, however, York. Yet possibly many of those who are on the civil-service that the Senator from Tennessee is correct, because I can not list in some form or another are from the State of New York, jmagine that Director Steuart would appoint anybody until far more than from the State of Washington. this legislation is acted upon. If we put the supervisors and enumerators under civil Mr. SWANSON. I would like to ask the Senator from Utah, service, the examinations will have to be held hereafter. They who is sometimes frank, to explain something he said. will not be taken from any list that may exist now, or, at least, Mr. JONES. Just a moment. for any eonsiderable .number of these positions. As the Sena­ Mr. SWANSON. He stated that Democrats hold a great tor from California well and clearly pointed out, making the number of the positions under the Government, and he implied appointments under the civil-service requirements would take a he wanted to equalize the situation by appointing Republicans. great deal of time, it would be very expensive, and it would Does the Senator intend that this census shall be a raid for be impracticable to apply that system under these conditions. Hepublicanism, to equalize the Democratic appointments which I am frank to say that if we should have a Democratic l1ave heretofore been made? administration when the next census is to be taken, if I shoUld Mr. SMOOT. I never used the word " equalized." be in the Senate, I can not see how I could advocate putting Mr. SWANSON. But the Senator implied it. I want to these positions under the civil service, because I think it abso­ know what the Senator means. lutely impracticable to do it, at least in the States of the West, Mr. SMOOT. I never used that word and I never had such a where we have a large territory and a rather sparsely settled thought. . country. · Mr. SWANSON. I would like to know how the Senator Take the State of Arizona, for instance, far larger than the. knew they were Democrats. State of Washington, with a population far less. What wo\]].d Mr. SMOOT. The Senator knows-- Senators think of calling people from all parts of that terri­ Mr. SWANSON. I do not know.. I know some of them voted tory to take civil-service examinations to fill positions tb.at the Republican ticket. I want to get an assurance from the would last two weeks, or not more than a month at the outside? Senator from Utah; he seems to be the most potential man It seem's to me that that is wholly impracticable. controlling the present administration. He is chairman of the Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? Finance Committee and is potential, and he deserves to be. Am Mr. JONES. For just a question. I to understand that he intends that there should be a raid, Mr. WAGNER. The Senator speaks of the situations lasting through this census matter, to equalize the Democratic appoint­ two weeks or a month. That may apply to the enumerators, ments in the departments? Is that his purp·ose? but what about the special agents, whose positions may last Mr. SMOOT. No; and I did not say "equalize." And if for 10 years? - · everyone appointed were a Republican there would be no Mr. JONES. No, Mr. President. equalizing. Mr. WAGNER. There is no limit of time. Mr. SWANSON. I would like to have the Senator ex­ Mr. SMOOT. There is a limit of appropriation, however. plain-- Mr. JONES. It is estimated that the positions of the super- Mr. JONES. Mr. President, I can not yield further to my visors will last for from three to six months. When the Direc­ 'dear friend from Virginia. tor of the Census tells me that, I am satisfied that he is not Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President-- misrepresenting at all. The special agents, as I understand, The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator yield to the are agents appointed and selected to gather certain facts along Senator from New York? particular lines. For instance, they are appointed to get the Mr. JONES. I yield for a question. number of manufacturers in a certain territory. ·when that Mr. HARRISON. Mr. President, a parliamentary inquiry. information is gotten, their work will be over. Some of those The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. BLAINE in the chair). jobs may last 5 or 6 or 7 months, but I am satisfied not for any The Chair is informed the Senator fr.om Washington has the greater length of time than that. :floor. Mr. F.ESS. Mr. President-- Mr. HARRISON. A parliamentary inquiry. The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Wash­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator will state it. ington yield to the Senator from Ohio? Mr. HARRISON. How. long has the Senator from Washing­ Mr. JONES. I yield. ton had the floor? :Mr. FESS. In respect to the Director of the Census, the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Chair is not informed very fact that the census districts are not to be coterminus and has no memorandum. with congressional districts shows conclusively that the director Mr. HARRISON. I did not think the rule was in operation. has not given to anyone the suggestion that Congressmen are Mr. JONES. I do not think I have had my half hour yet. to control the. selections. We have 22 congressional districts Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President, I asked the Senator to yield in Ohio. The plan is to divide the State into 25 census dis­ in order that I might give expression of gratitude for the candor tricts. One or two of the districts will have three congressional with which he has discus....~d thls measure, and in a sentence he districts in them. So it would be impossible for the director to has established what I tried for a few hours to establish yester­ allow the Representatives to determine the appointments. I day, namely, that this is a spoils system. think it is another evidence that he is being misunderstood Mr. JONES. Mr. President, I am surprised that the Senator when it is charged that he is attempting to make the selection would need to take so much time as that. of the census employees political. Mr. CARAWAY. To prove what is so obvious. Mr. LA FOLLETTE. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? Mr. JONES. As the Senator from Arkansas says, it is an Mr. JONES. I yield. obvious matter, but it is one that is very necessary. It is a Mr. LA FOLLETTE. I venture to say it will be a matter of situation which must be met in a frank way. some surprise to Representatives from Ohio in the House to The work of the enumerators would go on about two weeks, read the remarks of the Senator from Ohio in the RECORD to­ in the cities, especially, and probably at no time would extend morrow, because, as I understand it, already recommendations over a month. If we had to go through the process of selecting are being made, prior to the passage of this bill, by Representa­ tbe enumerators by civil service, it- would be expensive to the tives for the employment of enumerators. Government, it would be expensive to those who sought the Mr. FESS. .That may be, but the recommendations will not appointments, and the chances are it would bring about more necessarily be final. The director will consult RepresentativM, inefficieny than under the other system. as well as other people, Democratic as well as Republican. It was suggested yesterday that there are 65,000 or 70,000 Mr. JONES. Tbe appointments will not be made, as a mat­ names on the register of eligible persons under the civil service ter of fact, until after the enactment of this legislation. now. That may be true, but they are not persons who are.com- Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? 1850 CONGR.ESSION AL RECORD-SEN ATE }fAY 24 M.r. JONES. For a question. I want to conclude in just a Congress the power to correct fraud, the power to see that there moment. is no misrepresentation in apportionment, and no political Mr. WAGNER. It is merely to clear up a matter on which power being improperly distributed among the various States we .appear to be in conflict, but I do not think there is any of the Union. This bill will be a permanent statute. It is not difference between us. The Senator said that duration of an apportionment bill; it has been misnamed. It will be a service of the special agents will be approximately between statute fixing future apportionments. three and six months. We are to have a census taken politically, taken by political Mr. JONES. No; the Senator misunderstood me. I said the appointees, and in my 36 years of experience in Washington, supervisors' term was from 3 to 5 or 6 months. where it has been practically confessed that it has been done Mr. WAGNER. What about the special agents? that way, I have never seen it done so glaringly and strikingly. Mr. JONES. I do not know how long their positions would Now, suppose a census is taken politically and frauds exist, last. Some of them would last probably 6 or 7 or 8 months, the rolls are padded so the population is increased, and on and some of them possibly longer. the basis of that return Congressmen are apportioned, power Mr. WAGNER. I call attention to the fact that, so far as the in the Electoral College is added to or subtracted from, and census provided for in this measure is concerned, the act itself the election of a President vested with the vast powers and provides for a period of three years. In addition to that, the even the future of the country might be involved in 8 or 10 proposed law provides that those special agents may then be congressional districts turning the election one way or the utilized for purposes provided in the law of 1902, and under other. Now, we have the concession of the Senator from that act the Director of the Census may continue the service of Michigan, who heretofore bas had charge of the bill and seems these special agents, appointed without any competitive exami­ to be its main supporter, that there is no discretion in the nati.on, to collect statistics in regard to various matters to President to correct any fraud, however glaring. If a State which I called the attention of the Senate yesterday, numbering roll is padded half a million or 100,000, or any number, there 16 in all, so that there is no limit to the term of his office. is no discretion given the President to correct it, but he ·must Mr. SMOOT. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? say, as the Senator in his statement admitted, that the appor­ Mr. JONES. In just a moment. tionment must be made according to the returns certified to Mr. Sl\IOOT. I merely wanted to answer the Senator from him by the political officials who took the census. New York. Heretofore there was not such a discretion as to the charac­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. The time of the Senator from ter of the app.ointees because Congress had the power to cor­ Washington on the amendment has expired. He has 30 minutes rect any error in the enumeration. But under the pending on the bill. bill that power in Congress to correct is limited to three Mr. JONES. I do not desire to take any time on the bill. months, and at the end of three months, if the Congress has 1\Ir. SWANSON obtained the floor. not corrected it, the President must enforce the enumeration Mr. SMOOT. l\Ir. President-- according to the certification of those officials, even though he The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Vir­ knows it is reeking with fraud, reeking with wrong, and reek­ ginia yield to the Senator from Utah? ing with the suppression or increase of numbers. This shows M1·. SWANSON. I want to speak on the amendment, not on the folly of trying to pass such a measure as the present bill. the bill. It was known full well that if any discretion was left to the Mr. SMOOT. I want to answer the Senator from New York President the law would be declared unconstitutional. The by saying that the approptiations govern the length of time a Supreme Court has decided repeatedly that the powers which special agent may serve. If there is no necessity for him serv­ belong to Congress must be exercised by Congress or by an ing, there will be no appropriation made for him, and his office agent delegated to do so without discretion. There is nothing will become vacant on that account more fixed in the law of the land than that Mr. WAGNER. Mr. President, may I say to the Senator that So, in order to enable the President to make the apportion­ the statistics gathered by these special agents are very im­ ment, and in order to make it legal, it was necessary to deprive portant, and they are constantly gathering them. Undoubtedly him of the power to cure or remedy any frauds, however illegal, there is an appropriation for the collection of these particular however unjust they might appear · to be, in different sec­ Btatistics. tions of the country. The Senator from Michigan has admitted Mr. SMOOT. The appropriation is made for only one fiscal this. The Senator from Montana [Mr. WALSH], who has made year. a careful study of the bill, says there is no power in the Presi­ Mr. SWANSON. Mr. President, I understand that I am en­ dent to correct fraud, no discretion left to him ; and if no dis­ titled to 30 minutes on each amendment and 30 minutes on the cretion is left to him, he is compelled, _in the execution of the bill. mandate proposed to be given under the bill, to have the ap­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. Thirty minutes on the pending portionment made in that way, even though he may know of amendment and 30 minutes on the bill. frauds of the most glaring kind. This shows the absolute Mr. SWANSON. I want to speak to the pending amendment, folly of trying to nullify the Constitution by giving the power not on the bill. of Congress to the Executive. I desire to refer to the frank disclosure of the Senator from Am I to be called upon to vote for an apportionment among Washington [Mr. JoNES], for whom I have the highest esteem the 48 States of the Union, representing their power in Con­ and regard. The Senator from Washington is frank, be is gress and in the Electoral College, when I am assured by the able, he is courageous. For the last 20 years when one or the proponents of the measure that the man who makes the appor­ other was necessarily absent be and I have been paired in the tionment is powerless under the terms of the bill to correct Se-nate, and I know him intimately. His frankness has dis­ any fraud, however reeking, however glaring, however unjust? closed what? As far as his State is concerned, be has reached Is Congress called on to create a statute, not an apportionment the conclusion that the census will be taken by political ap­ measure, filled with opportunities for fraud like this under a point~s. _ He does not know to what extent that understanding census taken by political appointees as provided in the bill? exists as to other States, but the suggestion made by the Sen­ Mr. BURTON. Mr. President-- ator from Utah [1\!r. SMOOT] that the time has come to equalize The PRESIDING OFFICER. Doe1=1 the Senator from Vir­ in some way the Republicans with the Democrats in the execu­ ginia yield to the Senator from Ohio? tive departments of the Government, implies that this census Mr. SWANSON. I yield. matter will be used as the means for making that equaJization. Mr. BURTON. What is in there in the present bill that gives I doubt whether there is a Senator here who has not reached any greater opportunity for fraud than under every preceding the conclusion that the census will be taken politically, on the census? _ recommendation of Republican authorities, officers, and persons Mr. SWANSON. In every preceding census, before the ap­ in power. portionment was finally made by the Congress, a congressional Let us see what the situation is. A census is to be taken, committee, or even individual l\Iembers of Congress, could in­ with all of its ramifications, with the necessary supervisors and vestigate whether it was a fair or a fraudulent census. Under enumerators, and it is to be taken politically. Heretofore there the terms of the bill now before us they are deprived of that has been no special fight on census bills, because the results of right, unless the Congress exercises its right within three months a census could be corrected by Congress. If a c-ensus were to repeal the law, at the end of which time, unless repealed, the taken politica1ly, if the lists were padded, if reeking con·up­ power is given to the President without any discretion whatso­ tion existed, under the Constitution Congress had the power ever. to correct it when it made the distribution of Representatives Mr. BUR'l'ON. It can be done in this case. Practically every to the various States. apportionment bill that has been adopted has been passed in Coupled with this political taking of the census, however, the short session, and time bas been sufficient for the inves­ there is another matter, a provision which would take from tigation for fraud or otherwise. 1929 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-' SENATE 1851 Mr. SWANSON. But the President is now to be denied that for all time to come the President shall be compelled to dis­ right. There is not in this bill a provision that the President tribute the Representatives in Congress: the power in Congress, must be satisfied with the census before he 'acts. and in the Electoral College, according to an enumeration to be Mr. BURTON. And we never had such a provision in any made by people appointed for political reasons. There is no other law. excuse, there is no justification of any kind for such a proposal. Mr. SWANSON. No; becau-se the Congress examined the cen­ Then, too, it seems that the Senate could not wait for the sus and satisfied itself before it proceeded to .the apportion­ House of Representatives to present an apportionment bill. ment. This is the first time there has been an effort to deprive The House of Rept·esentatives has been deprived, or it is attempt­ th,e Congress of its legal constitutional right to pass on the ing to deprive it, of its right to present a bill for the distribu­ honesty or dishonesty of a census. tion of its own Members among the respective States. Senators Mr. BURTON. I must say to the Senator from Virginia with have taken as the groundwork for the bill a measure which all due re-spect for his judgment that he is quite in error in that was considered by a Congress which is adjourned and dead, and respect, because there is just the same power to correct errors are using it as a basis for the action of the Congress which is under this plan as there bas been in every other census law. in session to-day. They are attempting to require the present Mr. SWANSON. The President, according to the admission Congress to pass on a measure which Senators have had no of the Senator from Michigan [Mr. VANDENBERG], can not cor­ opportunity to consider. The measure is far-reaching in its rect any errors or any fraudulent thing in the census. There is consequences, unjust in its provisions. It minimizes the powei.· no discretion left to him. If the Congress does not act within of Congress and if it is permitted to become a law no power the 3-month limitation proposed by the bill and repeal the will exist except for· three months to correct any palpable and law, then the President must act, and he,must act on the census glaring fraud that might occur in connection with the next as certified by the officials, even though he may know it is census or any future census that is to be taken. fraudulent and wrong. Mr. NORRIS obtained the floor. Mr. NORRIS. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? Mr. KING. Mr. President, is the Senator going to address Mr. SWANSON. Certainly. himself to the bill? Mr. NORRIS. The argument of the Senator from Ohio is Mr. NORRIS. Yes. that since we have never had the civil-service rule applied to Mr. KING. I suggest the absence of a quorum. the census, we ought not to have it now. If that argument had Mr. NORRIS. Oh, no; I hope the Senator will not do that. been made when the civil service bill was before us, we would Mr. KING. I think the Senator ought to be heard. This is a not have it on the statute books at this time. If that argument very important measure. I suggest the absence of a quornm. had been presented and followed, we never would have made The PRESIDING OFFICER. The clerk will call the roll. any progress, because we would be afraid to make a change. The Chief Clerk called the roll, and the following Senators Mr. SWANSON. Of courf!e. Let us examine the situation, answered to their names : exactly and fairly. The bill is not an apportionment bill. It Allen Deneen Johnson Sackett does not apportion Co~o-ressmen or distribute political power. Ashurst Dill Jones Sheppard Barkley Edge Kean Simmons It is a proposed statute which will continue in force until Con­ Bingham Fess Kendrick Smith gress repeals it, and it compels the President to make an appor­ Black Fletcher Keyes Swanson tionment of political power in the Congress and in the Electoral Blaine Frazier King Thomas, Idaho Blease George La Follette Thomas, 0 kla. College if the Congress does not repeal the statute within three Borah Glenn McKellar Townsend month~. He would then be compelled to carry out the appor­ Brookhart Goff McMaster Trammell tionment on the basis of that census even though he knew there Broussard Harris McNary Tyson Burton Harrison Metcalf Vandenberg were glaring frauds and injustices and iniquities in the census. Capper Hastings Norris Wagner If no discretion is left with the President to correct such things, Caraway Hatfield Nye Walsh, Mont. think what the result would be. On the other hand, it was Connally Hawes Oddie Warren Copeland Hayden Overman Watson known that if an effort were made to lodge any discretion with Couzens Hebert Ransdell the President the law would be null,ified under the decisions of Cutting Heflin Reed the Supreme Court, and so in order to get the measure through Dale Howell Robinson, Ind. and adopt the major-fractions plan, that will increase the power The PRESIDING OFFICER. Sixty-nine Senators have an· of four or five of the great big States ·at the expense of the rest swered to their names. There is a quorum present. The senior • of the country, it is sought to get Congress to consent to an Senator from Nebraska is entitled to the :floor. anomaly like this and surrender its power to correct frauds, to Mr. NORRIS. Mr. President, I am somewhat surprised that surrender its power to distribute political power according to its there should be any opposition to the pending amendment. The idea of justice and right, and leave the matter entirely and abso­ question of civil service is older than most of us. A proper civil­ lutely at the mercy of a census which it is confessed will be service system is one of the necessary requisites of every modern politically controlled and politically dominated. government and to a great extent of e~ry modern business. If there ever was a time in the history of the country when The amendment simply provides that the appointments under the civil-service system could be applied to the census, when this bill shall be made in accordance with the law and the the civil service should appoint men irrespective of party, when regulations of the civil service. , men should be taken for merit and capacity and not because of There are something over 100,000 appointments to be made. political recommendations, it is at this time; but it is not to be On the one hand, it is proposed that they shall be put upon done under the bill now before us, which contains no means of the political pie counter and dealt out across that counter as correcting fraud except so far as the bill confers that possibility patronage, and, on the other hand, it is proposed that the upon the Congress by enabling it to act within three short appointments shall be made from lists properly prepared by months and upon its failure to act, it then makes it mandatory the Civil Service Commission. There will, of course, be many upon the P~esident to accept the census as presented to him mistakes in either case, because the time is short and the under the circumstances I have detailed. number is great; but I make the assertion, Mr. President, with­ l\1r. KING. Mr. President, will the Senator yield? out any idea that it can be, successfully controverted, that the Mr. SWANSON. Certainly. Civil Service Commission is the best equipped institution in the Mr. KING. Even though we may not be much enamored of United States to-day to make these appointments. As many the civil service, as I am not, we can not look with much favor mistakes as they will undoubtedly make, they are in reality upon a bill which projects into all time and fastens upon the equipped for emergencies of this kind. They· constitute the only country for all the days to come such an unfair basis, and ·organization or bureau of our Government that is equipped to abolishes the right to employ the civil-service machinery of the do such work. That is the object of having a Civil Service Com­ Government for the taking of the census. mission. One of its great objects is to meet contingencies Mr. SWANSON. As the Senator from Utah has well sug­ such as will be presented when this bill shall become a law. gested, the bill is not in fact an apportionment bill. The press To say that when the bill becomes a law the appointment of of .the country can not misrepresent the matter to the people the hundred thousand employees to carry out its provisions shall at large by saying it is an apportionment bill, because it is not be turned over to politicians, pO-litical machines, and political in fact, but it is a proposed statute that provides for all time to bosses is something, it seems to me, that we ought not for a come, unless repealed by Congress, the unfair and unjust plan minute to permit. We have been told on the :floor of the Senate which I have been discussing. Some think they have done Con­ that notice has already gone out in some of the States, " If you gress a gracious favor by giving it the right to repeal within want a job under the new census law that is about to be passed, three months, when the Congress already possesses that general apply to the chairman of a certain Republican committee." I right anyway, but they propose to restrict that power in the would have more respect for it, Mr. President, if the bill pro­ Congress by ijmiting it to three months. Its passage would vided directly that the appoinbnents should be made by the mean that for all time to come, until repealed by the Congress, men who are in reality going to make them under the law. If the census shall be taken politically and in a partisan way, ~nd we are going to turn over this yast number of officeholders .1852 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE MAY 24 to the politicians, let us provide in the law in so many words sword that cuts both ways. It has two edges to it. There is that the appointments shall be turned over to them. Let ~shave only one course to pursue, an~ that is to forget personal ad\'an­ the courage of our convictions; let us not try to dece.tve the tage, to forget party advantage, and look to the good of the people of the .country. . . . country and the good that we want tQ accomplish by taking this In my judgment, it is no argument m favor of the bill B;S 1t census. stands and against the amendment to say that as the Republican I think everybody who has bad any experience with the Party is now in power the Republicans will appoint those civil service rules and laws concedes that while the civil service officeholders, as if the Democrats were in power they :vould is far from perfect-it has made many errors, it will undoubtedly deal out these jobs. I have no doubt that the Republlca.ns, make many mistakes in this case; it is not perfect by any being in power, they will deal them out It is no!hing in favor. of means-still lt is an improvement over the spoils system. I putting these offices into the Republican machme .and making suppose there is not a Senator in this Chamber who would vote a great big Republican sale out of them to say that 1f the Demo­ to repeal the civil service law, and yet it seems that so many of crats were in power they would do likewise. In other words, them are in favor of having a law on the statute books and if the Republicans have no better argument to make in favor not letting it operate, preventing it from going into effect as of a bad provision of the proposed law than to say the Demo­ far as this law is concerned. crats would do just the same if they had a chance, they had I can not myself understand how anyone who will think only better pull down the :flag and go out of business. That is a of what we really want to accomplish, and who believes, as I poor excuse. ' have no doubt we all do, in trying to accomplish it in the most What is the object of the civil service law? StatesiD:e:r;t. efficient way possible, can take any other position than that this economists, patriotic men everywhere recognize that the Clvil census should be made by men and women who are appointed service law is necessary in making appointments, particularly on account of their efficiency and qualifications for the work. of this kind. It is said the time is short; that the Civil Serv­ I admit that these people could all be taken out of one party, .ice Commission can not make the appointments in the length_ ~f perhaps, and be efficient; but every man knows that that is not time available. The time will be just as long for the C1v1l the practical working of the matter. I have no doubt that the Service Commission to do it as for the politicians to do it. men who select these enumerators want to see a good enumera4 God is not going to keep the sun from going down in order tion taken; but we all know what the first qualification is going to give the politicians more time, and shove it ~hind the. clou~s to be. It is going to be dealt out from one boss down to an­ if the Civil Service Commission shall do 1t The t1me IS other until it comes down to the locality, and there the boss is going to be just the same, short, I admit; too short to. dFebruary 7, 1891, an apportionment bill was passed, and we give to the question of representation, Congress would be also on January 6, 1901. required to change the tax law every 10 years, if a direct tax So I submit, Mr. President, that with the great population law were in force that long, based upon a new enumeration of we now have in the country, and with the enlargement of the our population. enumeration that the census officials are directed in this bill I offer that suggestion merely in connection with the claim to take, it would be impossible for them to take it and submit that this provision of the Constitution is mandatory. Not only it to Congress by December, ·1930, and then to give only a short does this section-. of the bill inipugn the good faith and. the session of Congress in which to pass on it. I submit that if motives of the Congress that follows the enumeration of 1930 .. the bill passes as it is now, no matter if all these frauds occur but H indicts in advance for dereliction of duty every possible as they have occurred in the past, the Congress would be fore­ Congress that succeeds a decennial census as long as this closed after March 4, 1931, from passing any legislation on the Republic shall last unless this measure shall be repealed. subject, because the apportionment will have then been settled Not only does it impugn the integrity and good faith of every by this piece of legislation. succeeding Congress, but it offers an inducement for that Con­ Certainly we are not asking an unreasonable thing when we gress to do nothing with respect to reapportionment, so that if seek to give the Congress ample time to consider this question, they were inclined to take no steps whatever, they might find to reyea.l this packing of the census in certain places, and to justification in the claim that the law already provided that if make an investigation as to the fairness of the enumeration. Congress failed to do its duty tp.e President of the United States It can not be done if we pass the bill as it is now; and I sub­ would have the authority to reapportion the country based upon mit that it is high time for us to put a stop to · the delegation the census of each 10 years. of authority by the Congress to the executive branch of the Therefore I do not believe that it is wise, as a. matter of Government. policy, I do not believe it is fair to future Congresses to under­ By passing measure after measure here we have frittered take by this legislation permanently and for all time to tie their away about all the power that the Congress heretofore has held. bands, or to invest the President, not the present Executive We can make no appropriation now save that which is recom­ but any Executive who happens to be in office at the time, who mended by the President upon the recommendation of the Direc­ is charged with the responsibility of appointing these enumera­ tor of the Budget. We have made large appropriations and tors and census takers, with the duty of dividing the country as given to the Secretary of the Treasury · power to build post to its representation from different States. offices wherever he may choose in this country. We have passed bills permitting him within certain limits to fix the tariff duties, Not only that, but we may imagine the arrival of a time when and now we intend to go beyond that. I submit that we have the membership in the House of Representatives might very reached the end of the road when this Congress, by solemn desirably be reduced. Congress may desire some day to con­ action, fritters away its constitutional right and delegates to sider the question whether it is not already too large, a ques­ the President not only the right to take the enumeration but tion which I do not desire to pass upon at this time, having so the right to fix the apportionment on it. I submit that it is recently been a Member of that body, but it is a very serious wrong; and I submit to the intelligent and fair-minded Members question even now ·whether the membership of the House of of this body that at least we should adopt this amendment, so Representatives may not be too large. that when the Congress comes back after the census shall have Because of the number of Members representing the various been taken we elm consider this matter in an orderly way, and States making up the entire House, already it is almost impos­ make a fair apportionment in this country. sible for men of even the most outstanding ability to have a Mr. BORAH. Mr. President, I desire to ask the Senator from chance to demonstrate what they may do in the mattet'S of Mississippi a question. legislation because they are overwhelmed by numbers. The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Mississippi We may very well imagine the time may soon arrive when yield to the Senator from Idaho? the House of Representatives itself, and when Congress as a Mr. HARRISON. I do. whole, may desire to consider whether it might not be desirable Mr. BORAH. Does the Senator from Mississippi think the to reduce the membership, as it has been thought wise in the amendment offered by the Senator from Alabama [Mr. BLACK] past to increase it. will correct the evil? Yet this provision in this bill, placing in the hands of every Mr. HARRISON. Yes; I think it will correct the evil so far President who happens to be in office when the census is taken as giving the President power to put into effect the apportion­ each 10 years the power to redistrict the country and reappor­ ment is concerned. tion representation among the States, that very power con­ Mr. BORAH. As I understand the portion of the bill on page ferred ripon the President, in addition to the unwisdom of its 17, it undertakes to limit the time within which Congress may being conferred upon him, may offer an inducement for Con­ legislate. gress to take !10 action, not even in the matter of changing the Jr.l858 CONGRESSIONAL .RECORD-SENATE MAY 24 r total number of Members of the House of Representatives as The only pertinent question involved, as I see it, is whether carried in the present law. or not this involves a delegation of congressional power which 1 · If it is conceived that the Congress which follows the next can not be sanctioned. I submit first, Mr. President, as a matter census may be so regardless of its duty, so indifferent and of fact, that it involves no delegation of power, under a correct callous to the mandatory provisions of the Constitution, if they definition of that word, no delegation of power whatsoever. are to be regarded as mandatory, that it will not perform its The only thing in the world the President of the United States duty, it is an indictment of the entire American system of rep­ would do in serving the function prescribed fo,r him in this legis­ resentation to say that every Congress which may succeed any lation would be to send to the Congress the result of a census, census will be likewise derelict in the performance of its duty, plus the mathematical calculation indicating what would be and therefore we are to do, if not an unconstitutional thing, at the apportionment of Representatives under a given premise, least an unwise, a foolish thing, by giving the President of the which this measure itself prescribes. United States the right to reapportion Members of Congress Mr. BARKLEY. Mr. President-- ! after each 10 years' census instead of performing that duty as Mr. VANDENBERG. Will not the Senator permit me to l jt may be contemplated to be performed by the Congress itself. finish my statement, and then let me yield to him? l For these reasons I shall vote, first, for the amendment offered Mr. BARKLEY. Certainly. by the Senator from Georgia so as not to mortgage and bind Mr. V.AND ENBERG. I should like, if possible, to make my 1 the conscience of every succeeding Congress, and whether his statement consecutive. amendment shall be adopted or defeated, I shall vote to strike In my judgment, and I believe as a matter of indisputable ·out the entire provision, having faith, as I have faith, in the fact, that function served by the President is as purely and belief that the Congress which succeeds the· taking of this completely a ministerial function as any function on earth could I next census will perform its duty, if it is a mandatory duty, be. It is the responsibility simply to do a sum in arithmetic Iand if it is only a discretionary duty, that it will be wise and by a fixed and standard formula of mathematics, which all ~ patriotic enough to perform that duty under the Constitution of experts and all scientists who have appeared before any of the j the United States. _ committees, or with whom I have ever discussed the matter, Mr. SWANSON. Ur. President, I ask the .indulgence of, the agree can produce but one single result in a given situation. Senate for a short time. I do not know whether Senators fully Mr. President, as to whether or not that ministerial function Iappreciate the import of the language proposed to be eliminated is in any sense an affront to the constitutional rights of the Iby this amendment. I wish to read it to the Senate. "' Congress I very humbly present the legal view, not of myself, j If the Congress to which the statement required by section 1- because that would be absurd, but the legal view of the legisla­ tive council of the Senate, which, passing upon this ·specific ;1 That is, the statement made b'y the President- thing, says, .and it is just a se~te~ce or two: is transmitted fails to enact a law apportioning Representatives among In view of these n~rous decisions of the Supreme Court- ·the several States, then each State shall be entitled, in the second sue- ceeding Congress and in each _Congress thereafter until the taking effect And this refers to a number of decisions to which this opinion of a reapportionment on the basi.s of the next decennial census, to the has previously referred- 1 number of Repre_sentatives. shown in the statement. it would appear only too obvious that the mere conferring of authority I What is the effect of that? Plain, palpable, unvarnished, it is upon the Secretary o! Commerce to make the apportionment of Repre­ sentatives in Congress immediately upon the completion of future cen­ ' l:m effort of this Congress to limit the power of the next Con­ ; gress to legislate. What does it mean? It means that if the suses could in no sense be considered as a delegation of legislative power. statement of the next census shf!ll be transmitted to Congress, He would J>e following merely a prescribed rule laid down by Congress, and his function could be considered only as ministerial. and there shall be in the statement evidence of palpable frauds, . , I the President will have no power to correct them, as has been Mr. President, I believe that is an absolutely scrupulous defini­ stated by the Senator from Michigan. He will have simply tion of the.one and only and sole and exclusive function which 'mandatory power to estimate the :figures and transmit them to the President of the United States could serve under the terms Congress. of this bill, and I fail to understand how it can carry the If Congress should ascertain that there were palpable frauds, slightest affr<>nt either to the prerogatives or to the dignity and 1 and if Congress should be willing to consent that there should standing of the Congress of the United States. ·be 435 Members of the House, and wished to delay reapportion­ A great deal is said about the fear lest we undertake to force !ment until the frauds could be investigated, it would have no future Congresses to give up some right of initiative to which power to delay. The law would become eperative, if it is con­ they are properly entitled. I can not concede that this legisla­ stitutional, which I doubt, and Congress would be limited in its tion would take away any right of initiative from any Congress. 1 power to investigate. I frankly concede that it would take away the right of inertia, , The only way the la'! could be made nonoperative would be and whether it be in the letter ot the Constitution or not, at for Congress to apportion. If the next Congress should feel least it-is in the fundamental genius of· American institutions, I that the statement made by the President was not accurate, that we must apportion our representative spokesmanship upon :was not correct, that there were frauds, that the :figures had a basis of population reflection, or we outrage the theory and been padded in some places and reduced in others, and if Oon- the genius of our democracy. I can not concede that if we take !gress wanted to delay the reapportionment until the next session, from Congress this right of inertia, in other words, merely ~ts ~ if this is constitutional, the only way by which the law could right to do nothing in respect of so fundamental a consideration be made nonoperative would be for the Congress to reapportion. as that, we have offended or affronted anything which has a I do not believe one Congress has power to deprive another right of consideration in this forum in connection with this Congress of power to legislate. I doubt whether this is con­ problem. . stitutional, but if it is constitutional Congress would be limit- · Mr. BORAH. Mr. President-- ing the power of the next Congress to investigate. .All the next The VICE PRESIDENT. Does the Senator from Michigan · Congress could do would be to a void the effect of the law by yield to the Seriator from Idaho? ·making the apportionment itself. It would be left no other Mr. VANDENBERG. I yield. ·'discretion. The power of future Congresses would be limited, Mr. BORAH . .I understand the Senator to say that we do and it does seem to me that one Congress has no right to limit by this take away the right of Congress not to act in case the the power of another Congress in reference to legislation. I do Congress sees · fit not to act. · not think this is wise; it is not good legislation for one Con­ Mr. VANDENBERG. Perhaps a more scrupulous statement gress to attempt to limit the power of another. would be that we limit the time in which they can continue :Mr. VANDENBERG. :Mr. President, I do not care to prolong to refuse to act · the debate, and I certainly am not going to repeat things I have Mr. BORAH. :Mr. President, can we any more limit the already said on this subject, but I would like to bring the judgment of a Congress upon one feature of a matter than Senate's attention to the specific thing pending at the bar, and upon another? Their refusal to act in their wisdom is just :focus its attention upon the precise consideration now .pending. as much a right as a willingness to act within their wisdom. i My distinguished and able friend from Alabama [:Ur. BLACK] Can we take away, as a matter of constitutional po~er, one is proposing an amendment which would strike out the auto­ more than another? matic section of the bill. In other words, he is proposing an Mr. VANDENBERG. The Senator surely would not ask amendment which, if adopted, would prevent the operation of me to debate the Constitution with him as a legal proposition. any automatic reapportionment as contemplated by •the bill. I l am resting my opinion on the report of the legislative council. think that ought to be thoroughly understood by the Senate. Mr. BORAH. I would rather have the Senator's opinion. This amendment, if adopted, would' end the reapportionment Mr. VANDENBERG. I thank the Senator for his -compli­ :fw;lction to which this btU has undertaken to address itself. ment. I would think we surely were entitled to do _that t:hing i929 OONGRESSION .AL · RECORD~SEN ATE which the Federalist papers indicated is an axiom of govern­ Mr. VANDENBERG. The Senator ·has· fallen into the very ment, namely, to provide a power somewhere equal to any easy ert'or in the fourth line of proposing to remove the adjec­ contingency which might arise as ·bearing upon the functioning tive " second." Is it proposed to make it read " in the succeed­ of the constitutional system. ing Congress "? Mr. WALSH of Montana. Mr. President-- Mr. WALSH of Montana. No; "in the second succeeding Yr. V1\NDENBERG. I yield to the Senator from Montana. Congress." Mr. WALSH of Montana. It seems to me the Senator from Mr. VAl\TDENBERG. I thought the Senator omitted the Michigan has not clearly apprehended the point raised by the word " second " when he read it. Let us have it read as the Senator from Virginia or, if he has, his reply has not been by Senator now proposes it shall read. any means direct. The Senator from Virginia calls attention Mr. WALSH of Montana. I shall be obliged to read it to the fact that under the provisions of the bill, if the Con­ myself. gress shall neglect, after the decennial census of 1930 is taken, The PRESIDING OFFICER (Mr. McNARY in the chair). to make an apportionment at the second Congress, the appor­ Will the Senator from Montana send to the· desk the amendment tionment provided for by the act goes into effect. But it which he proposes to the text of the bill as reported by the further provides that that apportionment shall continue until committee? • after the decennial census is taken. Meanwhile, the Congress Mr. VANDENBERG. As I understand the purpose which the might be perfectly willing to make an apportionment, but, Senator is seeking to reach, it is that each automatic appor­ under this language, if it can be effective at all, it can not tionment shall have validity only until there is an independent do so. and separate apportionment by the Congress itself. Is that it? Let me remark that I am not disturbed about the matter at Mr. WALSH of Montana. Exactly. all, because I am perfectly confident that this Congress can not Mr. VANDENBERG. I would have no objection to that. take away from the Congress of 1932 or the Congress of 1934 Mr. WALSH of Montana. Then if the Congress does not or the Congress of 1936 the right to pass an apportionment bill. make any apportionment until the next decennial census, a Mr. VANDENBERG. Any future Congress might repeal the new statement is submitted and in exactly the same way. legislation if it saw fit to do so. l\1r. BLACK. ·Mr. President, a parliamentary inquiry. Mr. WALSH of Montana. · It does not need to repeal it. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The Senator will state it. The future Congress can go on and make an apportionment not­ Mr. BLACK. If the amendment of the Senator from Mon­ withstanding the provisions of the bill. In a certain sense tana should be adopted, what is the position of my amendment that would ·be a repeal of this legislation. It is an axiom of to strike out? law that acts of parliament derogatory to the power of future The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment of the Senator parliaments have no power, so that although we should declare from Montana is to perfect the text on page 17, lines 5 and 6, this bill, as it does so declare, that that shall be the appor­ and the question would then recur on the motion of the Senator tionment for 10 years, it would not bind the Congress of 1932 from Alabama to strike out the text as perfected. The amend­ at all. I really think we ought not to undertake to bind ment proposed by the Senator from Montana will be stated. future Congresses past the first session at least. The LmrsLATIVE CLERK. On page 17, line 5, after the word I very respectfully suggest to the Senator from Michigan "until," strike out the words " the taking effect of a reappor­ and the Senator from California that they would be well ad­ tionment on the basis of the next decennial census " and insert vised to strike out the words " the taking effect of a reappor­ in lieu thereof the words "such apportionment law shall be ·tionment on the basis of the ·next decennial census so taken enacted or a subsequent statement shall be submitted as herein during that period " and substitute in lieu thereof the words provided." "until sucb apportionment law shall be enacted or any sub­ ".r-he PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amend­ sequent statement shall be submitted as herein provided," so ment of the Senator from Montana to the text of the bill. that tbe apportionment thus going into effect would continue Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President, I am still not clear as until an apportionment law is enacted by Congress or the entire to the effect of the amendment and I do not want to give consent period will have to elapse until a statement is subsequently so far as I am concerned until I am sure. Let me interrogate submitted to the Congress after the taking of a later decennial the Senator from Montana once more. census. As the section is written with his amendment included, would Mr. VANDENBERG. If I understand the Senator, I would this be the operation? The census is taken in November, 1929. have no objection to the theory which he is suggesting, but the At the December session of Congress in 1930 the President re­ particular amendment, of course, goes to the entire operating ports the census and the arithmetic. During the subsequent force of the reapportionment section. session of Congress, Congress can act, providing in its own Mr. WALSH of Montana. The pending motion is to strike independent way for an apportionment ahead of the automatic out the provision, and I suggest to the Senator it would be apportionment. If it does not do that, then the arithmetic wise for him to endeavor to perfect it before we vote upon the as previously reported governs and the automatic apportionment motion to strike out. . which takes effect in March, 1931, is e.ffective until Congress Mr. VANDENBERG. I would prefer not to undertake to do passes a subsequent reapportionment bill of its own. that, and I will tell the Senator why. If this measure were Mr. W.A.LSH of Montana. That is correct. offered solely upon my own responsibility, I should respond to Mr. VANDENBERG. If that is the net result of the 1an­ him with the greatest humility in the world, and I think I guage, I am very glad to accept it so far as I am concerned. should readily yield to his superior experience and information The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on the amend­ and wisdom on these and other subjects. But this is not my ment offered by the Senator from Montana. proposal. This is the proposal written by the House of Rep­ Mr. HARRISON. Let us have the language reported· or the resentatives, in effect, as governing its problem and as repre­ amendment stated. senting its judgment as to what the answer to its own problem The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment will be again rhould be. On that basis I am inclined to submit the issue stated. to the Senate, emphasizing once more the fact that here and The CHIEF CLERK. On pag~ 17, lines 5 and 6, strike out the now is the roll call which determines whether there is any words " the taking effect of a reapportionment on the basis of validity in the reapportionment section of the census reappor­ the next decennial census " and insert in lieu thereof the words tionment bill upon ·which we are about to act. " such apportionment law shall be ena~ted or a subsequent Mr. WALSH of Montana. In view of the statement made statement shall be submitted as herein provided." by the Senator from Michigan, I move, then, to strike out, on Mr. SMITH. Mr. President, am I to understand now that the page 17, lines 5 and 6, the words " the taking effect of a re­ amendment offered by the Senator from Montana to the text apportionment on the basis of the next decennial census," and affects the text without reference at all to the amendment that there be substituted therefor the words "such apportion­ offered by the Senator from Alabama? As the Chail· stated _it, ment law shall be enacted or a subsequent statement shall be it is a proposition to amend the amendment offered by the Sen­ submitted as herein provided," so that the provision shall read ator from Alabama. The amendment of the Senator from Ala­ as follows : · bama bas nothing whatever to do with the amendment that has been offered by the Senator from Montana. The Senator from If' the Congress to which tbe statement required by section 1 is Montana is offering an amendment to the texf as it now stands. transmitted fails to enact a law apportioning Representatives among ' I do not want to be precluded from voting on the amendment the several States, then each State shall be entitled, in the second offered by the Senator from Alabama. I understand we can succeeding Congress and in each Congress thereafter until such ap­ perfect the text. I understand that thoroughly. Then if we portionment law shall be enacted or a subsequent statement shall be see fit we can vote to strike out the whole thing even if amem1ed. submitted as herein provided, to the number of Representatives shown -I · desire to -know if 'the Senat-or from A1ahama intends to offer · in the state~ent. his amendment even though the text is perfected? . 1860 CONGRESSIONAL RECORD-SENATE Mr. BLACK. ·Certainly. other words, it proposes to take away from the President-that Mr. SMITH. The Senator intends to offer his amendment is, if we had the right to give it to the President-the power of anyway? apportioning Representative-s and leaves it in the Congress Mr. BLACK. Certainly. where the Constitution put it. That is the whole object of the The PRESIDING OFFICER. The amendment of the Sena­ amendment. tor from Alabama was the pending question when the Senator I take the position, in the first place, that this Congress has from Montana offered an amendment to perfect the text. After no right to limit any future Congresses with reference to ap­ that amendment is acted upon, then the question will recur upon portionment. There is only one time under the Constitution the amendment proposed by the Senator from Alabama upon when Congress can apportion and that is after a census shall which Senators will have a right to express their views. have been taken. Mr. VANDENBERG. Mr. President, I want it understood Mr. McKELLAR. Mr. Pre •ident-- that in acquiescing to the language it is with the understand­ The PRESIDING OFFICER. Does the Senator from Ala­ ing that it means what the Senator from Montana and I seem bama yield to the Senator from Tennessee. to agree that it means, but I want also to have it understood that Mr. BLACK. I yield to the Senator from Tennessee. I am of course irrevocably opposed to striking out the text Mr. McKELLAR. Does it not not only confer upon the Presi­ itself, even though perfected, beca"!lSe still the amendment of dent the power to apportion congressional districts but also give the Senator from Alabama would involve the genius of the him the power, in certain cases, at least, to fix tbe number of entire bill. · electors? Mr. McKELLAR. .Mr. President, will the Senator from Mon­ M:r. BLACK. Undoubtedly. tana explain to me-and perhaps to other Senators. though per­ Mr. McKELLAR. In other words, suppose that at some time haps they understand it-just what change his amendment we should have a bad President-! do not know of any bad makes in effect? What would be the effect of the present text Presidents, and have not seen many of them since I have been and what would be the effect of it if the Senator's amendment able to know Presidents of the United States-but suppose some shall be adopted? -· -- bad President wanted to perpetuate himself in office, -and the Mr. WALSH of Montana. If the ·text as it reads were contest was likely to be close, why could he not use this power adopted and were effective, -the reapportionment would go into for his own benefit? effect if the Congress failed to act after the 1930 census. It Mr. BLACK. There is not any sort of doubt but that he would then go into effect and that apportionment would remain could do so. The President himself 1s not going to make these in effect for 10 years, although the Congress at the next session calculations ; nobody claims that. Suppose he were to appoint succeeding were to make an entirely different apportionment, a Fall at the head of the-Department of Commerce, for instance, because under the law the apportionment thus made continues and suppose it were left for that highly partisan gentleman to until the next decennial census is taken. determine how many Representatives certain States should The amendment, however, is to the effect that if the Congress have, is there any doubt in the mind of any Senator here that, does not act at the next session after the 1929 census is taken, whether he had any discretion under the strict mathematical then this apportionment goes into effect, but that the Congress figures or not, he would juggle them in such a way as to b1ing may at the next session or a any succeeding session make an about the result which he desired? There can be no doubt entirely different apportionment if it desires to do so. but that under this bill Congress is again taking the action Mr. McKELLAR. Then, as I understand, it is proposed that the Senator from Georgia referred to this afternoon--con­ under the Senator's amendment to confer upon the Congresses centrating more and more power in the hands of the President. of 1932, 1934, and 1936 jurisdiction to pass a 1·eapportionment Of course, there is a sentiment in the country that the legis­ biH? ./ lative representatives of the people are not competent to legis­ Mr. WALSH of Montana. No; the Senator has not ex­ late. There are some who do not believe that any legislative pressed the idea. representative should have any power with reference to legis­ l\-1r. McKELLAR. I do not understand the amendment un­ lation. That seems to be, unfortunately, the dominant idea less it P-as that meaning. in this country to-day. There seems to be a viewpoint that Mr. WALSH of Montana. That is not the meaning of the every time there is an opportunity to take a single power out ' amendment at all. The bill itself by its wording endeavors to of the hands of Congress and put it in the hands of the Presi­ 1 deprive the Congress of that power, and the amendment pro­ dent it is a sacred duty to do that thing. poses to cancel that attempt at deprivation. A Member of Congress made a speech in Indiana a short Mr. McKElLAR. But the result would be as I have indi­ time ago and called attention to the Government bureaus and ~ated. how they ground out rules and regulations with unceasing :regu­ Mr. WALSH of Montana. Yes; the result would be the larity, thereby enacting legislation which the people are calletl. same. upon to obey; yet we come here, and the dominant party, just Mr. McKELLAR. For my part, it seems to be merely a as the Senator from Georgia stated to-day, turns over to the difference between tweedledum and tweedledee; and if the President the power of agriculture, turns over to him the power amendment shall be adopted, the provision will be just as of taxation, and now to make the pyramid complete proposes obnoxious as before. . to put on top of it a its crowning masterpiece the power to Mr. VANDENBElRG. That is, it would rob Tennessee of a determine the representation given to the free people of the Representative? United States of America. Mr. McKELLAR. No; it would have no effect on that. I admit that perhaps the majority has enough votes here or Mr. SACKETT. Mr. President, while the amendment is in the other body to put it over; I do not know as to that, but being perfected, I should like to ask the Senator ~om Michigan I do know that day by day and week by week, just as was about the second line on page 17, where it reads " section 1." said by the Senator from South Carolina [Mr. BLEA.SE] to-day, Mr. V.AND ENBERG. That has been perfected, it merely there are those who are seeking to place in the hands of .one being a typographical error. The provision now reads "this man the sovereign legislative power, the sovereign taxing power, section " instead of " section 1." and the sovereign executive power. The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question is on agreeing to The taking of a census is an Executive duty ; there is nothing the amendment offered by the Senator from Montana [Mr. wrong with giving the President the power of taking the census, . WALSH]. . but the very moment we leave it to the Executive to determine, The amendment was agreed to. if he has the right to determine, whether that census is correct The PRESIDING OFFICER. The question recurs on the or not, the very moment you give him the right to determine amendment of the Senator from Alabama [Mr. BLAcK] to strike the representation of the people under that censu , we have done out on page 17 lines 1 to 20, inclusive. away with and obliterated the old landmarks between the legis­ ' Mr. BLACK. Mr. President, I desire to say a few words on lative and the Executive. Of course, that amounts to nothing. the amendment, with the hope that we may pass upon it this American boys have recently been killed in Nicaragua and afternoon. The Senate has very graciously at this time con­ will, perhaps, be killed there in the future by reason of this ferred on certain Congresses the right to apportion their mem­ very tendency of to-day to turn over to the Presi