E EPISCOPAL CHURCHPEOPLE for a FREE SOUTHERN AFRICA c 339 Lafayette Street, New York, N.Y. 10012-2725 s (212) 4n-0066 FAX: ( 212) 9 79-1013 A JJ149: 12 June 1994 (anniversary of the ) THE INDEPENDENT(founding of ECSA 1956) WEDNESDAY 8 JUNE 1994 In his first interview with any newspaper since he was inaugurated, South Africa's President spoke'to John Carlin in Pretoria Mandela tells how he will tackle the future -·and the past PRESIDENT Nelson Mandela, greatest punishment would be the 75, said yesterday he intended to obligation to serve under those see out his full five-year term of of­ they strove so long to suppress. fice. "At least for the next five Mr Mandela was speaking years," he said in an interview shortly after the Justice Ministry with the Independent. "But then I announced that an amnesty would would be 80 and I don't think it be considered for all those who would be profitable for a man of 80 committed political offences be­ Declaring that forgivenness to stand for political office." fore 5 December last year, on con­ would not be absolute, Mr Speaking at the presidential of­ dition that that they first con­ Mandela said people would be fice in Pretoria he said that be­ fessed fully before a soon to be treated differently. "Some of those tween now and 1999 his priority established Truth Commission. who defended apartheid by sitting would be to "convert" all South The Justice Minister, Dullah down to hatch schemes to murder Africans to a new sense of national Omar, said the commision, which people simply because they de­ identity, loyalty and unity, even if is expected to focus on the 15,000 manded equality, those we can that meant forgiving many of the political killings since 1990, would never forgive." sins of the past. While acknowl­ make recommendations to the What about Inkatha officials edging that many of apartheid's President. In the end it would be who were sitting in parliament Mandela: priority is a national criminals would never suffer for up to Mr Mandela to decide who now and had been publicly linked identity, loyalty and unity the evil they did, he said their received pardons. · with "Third Force" elements in with Mr de Klerk: there can be no point around the country and she the security forces? "If a person greater criminals than the Na­ was subject to the most disgraceful has committed a crime, whether tional Party ... But we are work­ persecution. She stood up very he is inside parliament or outside ing with them and we are forget­ well to that. She has played a role parliament makes no difference. ting the past because they are and she has the qualifications to The police must take action contributing to the building of the serve in that position." against them. What we are con­ new nation. The punishment is But her criminal record con­ cerned with is to ensure there is that they are now serving under cerned a non-political offence: unity in the country. If people are those whom they tried too was not the idea of the ANC to inclined to change their views ... demonise." sweep the country with a new then we'll have to work with them They were also serving under moral broom? "The people we are whatever the position was in the his ·estranged wife Winnie, a con­ working with in the government past. victed criminal, and now deputy have themselves sanctioned crimi­ "Take the fact that we work minister of arts and culture. Why nal acts - despicable criminal acts had he appointed her? "No. Mrs - so you must look at her position Mandela, whatever criticisms we from the point of view of the gov­ may have of her, has made a very ernment of national unity, which valuable contribution. There was a has all sorts of people whose h~nds time in the late Seventies and are dripping with blood." Eighties when she was the rallying WEDNESDAY 8 JUNE 1994 rHE INDEPENDENT 'We must A sinning saint grapples portray the true history of South Africa and that history must with the legacy of evil reflect the reality WE ARE 10 minutes into the that ·it's not just interview when a white President Nelson Mandela tells woman a junior member of the white staff. ~alks into the wood­ John Carlin of 4is determination Buildings but the security pan~lled presidential cham­ people, as well as my col­ minority who ber office carrying a tray with to chart a middle way between leagues like Mr de Klerk, said have contributed two cups of tea and a glass of I should stay here, at the pres­ mineral water. black aspirations and white fears . idency." Might this curious nos- to the history. of Nelson Mandela, debonair talgia for something so recent re­ this country' in an immaculately tailored we are, the cabinet room here, veal a chink in the armoury? dark suit, springs to his feet, the parliament where we met: "That question has alreaay Was he a sentimentalist at heart? ram-rod straight. "Good these are the places where the been answered. There is a new "It's a house which I've lived morning!" he smiles."How most diabolical polices were spirit in the country. At our in for almost three years now are you?" hatched and if we are going to first cabinet meetings all the and it has got that family set­ Before he embar.ks on wc "Fine, Mr Mandela." He be consistent we ought not to cliches that came up during ting, you know, warm. I'm road of self-development at introduces the woman, who the elections have disap­ be meeting here, we ought not there with my grandchildren the age of 80, it is politics th~t says her name is Lenoy to be meeting in that parlia­ peared and people are now and the ladies who help in the will continue to consume h1s Coetzee. "The water's for you, ment, we ought to be meeting working out ways how to home. And then I've got very passions. When he says that Mr Mandela." in the open veld. We have to make the lives of our people good neighbours and the for­ providing jobs and houses.for "Thank you very much." sit down to work out a plan better. There are of course dif­ malities that are observed the poor is his greatest pnor­ It was not the occasion to and now as the builders of the ferences here and there and there are not so rigid, al­ ity in government, he mt:ans engage in further conversa­ new South Africa we have to the leader must always be though the police have come it from the bottom of his tion with Ms Coetzee but the be alive to the sensibilities of alert to ensure that those dif­ in and camped inside my heart. When he tells the anon­ chances are that she has been the other group that has now ferences are worked out." home. Nevertheless, that in- ymous black masses at vast working at the Union Build­ lost power." Mr Mandela's impersonal ' formality is there and I like to ANC rallies that he loves ings, the seat of govern~ent Mr Mandela said he was description of himself as "the I· be there. I can relax." them, he means it. Discern­ in Pretoria, for some nme. particularly disturbed by a ae­ leader", his habit of speaking The grandchildren, of ible now is a seed oflove - as Certainly since before Mr cision taken at a meeting he in the collective "we", his re­ whom he has 20, offered the comfortably distant as it is Mandela's inauguration as was unable to attend to luctance to use the first per­ key to unlock the man - or at sincere - for the anonymous president on 10 May. change the name of the Ver­ son singular reveal his deter­ least a glimpse of him. T;his white masses too. In common with the vast woerd Building - the gov­ mination to be seen not as the was his answer to the quesuon Was he surprised at the degree majority of civil servants, the ernment headquarters in colossus of South African whether he had been born a to which whites appeared to have chief beneficiaries of apart­ Cape Town named after the politics but as one more in?~­ leader or had become one. adapted to the 'politic{ll changes? heid's giant affirmative action National Party prime minis­ vidual in what he puncuh­ "When I compare myself to He was excited by the ques­ programme for ;Afrikan~rs, ter who, more zealously than ously insists on describing as the youth today there is no tion. "You .know, that is per­ she will not be losmg her JOb. any other, enforced the ideol­ the "collective" ANC leader­ comparison. They know far fectly true. Yes. Look at the For the natural courtesy the ogy of apartheid. ship. But they are also symp­ more that I did at their stage. lady who brought in the tea. world's youngest 75-year-old "You see, Verwoerd's toms of a man who has sacri­ My grandson, who is four, can Look at this! It is really unbe­ ficed more than most and is ask me questions and know - exhibits in private has ex­ grandson is in the movement lievable the way they hav_e [the ANC] now and his wife is either unwilling or unable to about things I never dreamt just adjusted to the new posi­ tended to the political sphere.