COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL

MONDAY, OCTOBER 16, 1989

SESSION OF 1989 173D OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY No. 61

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES 1 JOURNAL IN PRINT The House convened at 1 p.m., e.d.t. I The SPEAKER. For the information of the members. the Journal of Tuesday, October 3, 1989, is in print, and without THE SPEAKER (JAMES J. MANDERINO) objection, the same will be approved with the close of this IN THE CHAIR week's sessions. PRAYER The Speaker would like to thank Dr. Myers of the Pennsyl- The SPEAKER. Prayer will be offered today by Rev. Dr. vania Council of Churches for giving the opening prayer Albert E. Myers, who is the executive director of the Pennsyl- today in the absence of the House Chaplain, who has suffered vania Council of Churches. a death in the family. Thank you, Dr. Myers. REV. DR. ALBERT E. MYERS offered the following prayer: HOUSE BILLS INTRODUCED AND REFERRED Let us pray: Thank You, gracious God, for all You have done for us. No. 1988 By Representatives DEMPSEY, ALLEN, May our service in this House demonstrate our dedication and PESCI, TIGUE, BILLOW, BUNT, gratitude to You. DISTLER, DOMBROWSKI, BUSH, HESS, Thank You for the splendor of creation, for the beauty of COHEN, LASHINGER, RAYMOND, this world, for the wonder of life, for health and for food, JOHNSON, VROON, MICHLOVIC and and for the sweet mystery of love. BELARDl You bless us with family and friends. Thank You for their care and support. An Act amending the act of June 23, 1931 (P. L. 932, No. 317), known as "The Third Class City Code," further providing You bless us with the high calling to public service. You for pension funds for employees who are not public safety invite us to give our best here. You lead us to accomplish- employees. ments which bring satisfaction to us and health and dignity to our fellow citizens. Thank You for the opportunity to serve. Referred to Committee on URBAN AFFAIRS, You permit us to experience disappointments and failures, October 16, 1989. too. Thank You for leading us to acknowledge our depen- No. 1989 By Representatives JACKSON, dence upon You alone. MOEHLMANN and D. F. CLARK We ask for Your guidance and encouragement. We need An Act amending the act of June 19, 1931 (P. L. 589, No. Your wisdom, Your strength. Give us insight and courage to 202), referred to as the "Barbers' License Law," further defining make those choices and establish those policies which may "barhering." best serve Your people in Pennsylvania. Amen. Referred to Committee on PROFESSIONAL LICEN- SURE, Octoher 16, 1989. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE No. 1990 Bv. Reoresentatives . JACKSON. (The Pledge of Allegiance was recited by members and vis- MOEHLMANN and D. F. CLARK itors.) An Act amending the act of May 3, 1933 (P. L. 242, No. 86). referred to as the "Cosmetology Law," further defining "cosme- JOURNAL APPROVAL POSTPONED tology." Referred to Committee on PROFESSIONAL LICEN- The SPEAKER. Without objection, we will postpone until SURE, October 16, 1989. printed the approval of the Journal dated Wednesday, October l I, 1989. The Chair hears no objection. No. 1991 By Representatives STABACK, TIGUE, VAN HORNE, PESCI, HALUSKA, CAPPABIANCA, GIGLIOTTI, PISTELLA, DALEY, DeLUCA, DIETTERICK, LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

McVERRY, COLAFELLA, E. Z. TAYLOR, BELARDI, MAIALE, HOWLETT, BUNT, VEON, COHEN, STISH, SCRIMENTI, ANGSTADT, REINARD, BELARDI, MICHLOVIC, GELST and KOSINSKI, CAPPABIANCA, COLAFELLA, BELFANTI, CORRIGAN, An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Penn- LAUGHLIN, BUSH, MICOZZIE, sylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for an offense relating HERMAN, E. Z. TAYLOR, GIGLIOTTI, to barriers obstructing certain roadways, lanes or trails. LINTON. LEVDANSKY. VROON. Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, October 16, MERRY, WOGAN, HAGARTY, 1989. KASUNIC, MAINE, SERAFlNl and BIRMELIN No. 1992 By Representatives FARMER, LAUGHLIN, CESSAR, SAURMAN, BURD, An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, further providing for markings at deer cross- DIETTERICK, WOGAN, McVERRY, ing areas. J. L. WRIGHT, FLEAGLE, BILLOW, RYBAK, FAIRCHILD, DISTLER, PESCI, Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, MORRIS, TIGUE, BUNT, SCHULER, October 16, 1989. STABACK, ARGALL, MELIO, SALOOM, No. 1996 By Representatives COWELL, DeWEESE, CAWLEY, JOHNSON, BELARDI, ITKIN, DeLUCA, FREEMAN, KAISER, FOX, NOYE, COLAFELLA, GLADECK, COLAIZZO, COHEN, BISHOP, HECKLER, HERMAN, RAYMOND, 1. TAYLOR, BELFANTI, WAMBACH, LASHINGER, TRICH, NAHILL, PISTELLA, ITKIN, LASHINGER, FREEMAN, KENNEY, JADLOWIEC, COLAFELLA, MICHLOVIC, BLAUM, MERRY, CIVERA, SERAFINI, CANNON, VEON, LEVDANSKY, HAYDEN, ANGSTADT, LEH, MICOZZIE and TELEK KOSINSKI, McNALLY, CALTAGIRONE, An Act amending the act of November 4, 1983 (P. L. 217, No. RITTER, LaGROTTA, MAINE, 631, known as the "Pharmaceutical Assistance Contract for the WOZNIAK, LINTON, VAN HORNE, Elderly Act," further providing for eligibility for assistance. KASUNIC, KUKOVICH, HUGHES, Referred to Committee on YOUTH AND AGING, BILLOW, GIGLIOTTI, LAUGHLIN, October 16, 1989. RAYMOND, RYBAK, PRESSMANN, FEE, MORRIS, WESTON, O'BRIEN, WOGAN, No. 1993 By Representatives FARMER, KENNEY and MlCOZZlE VAN HORNE, BILLOW, PISTELLA, FAIRCHILD, McVERRY, DISTLER, An Act providing for agency sllop in political subdivisions. MORRIS, PESCI, TIGUE, BUNT, Referred to Committee on LABOR RELATIONS, MRKONIC, SCHULER, ARGALL, October 16, 1989. MELIO, CAWLEY, ITKIN, NOYE, No. 1997 By Representatives PETRONE, OLASZ, HECKLER, LAUGHLIN, LASHINGER, ITKIN, PISTELLA, ROBINSON, E. Z. TAYLOR, FREEMAN, MICHLOVIC, GIGLIOTTI, COWELL, PRESTON, KENNEY, BURD, CIVERA, WOGAN, MURPHY and McNALLY DIETTERICK, CESSAR, ANGSTADT, MlCOZZlE and TELEK An Act amending the act of August 24, 1961 (P. L. 1135, No. SOU), referred to as the "First Class A School District Earned An Act providing for the observance of May 27 of each year as Income Tax Act," further providing for powers and duties of Rachel Carson Day. treasurer and for interest and penalties. Referred to Committee on STATE GOVERNMENT, Referred to Committee on FINANCE, October 16, 1989. October 16, 1989. No. 1998 By Representatives PRESSMANN,

No. 1994 By Representative BURNS COWELL. ITKIN. NOYE. KUKOVICH.--- An Act limiting the working hours of resident physicians. COLAFELLA, E. Z. TAYLOR, TIGUE, STISH, BILLOW, MORRIS, PESCI, Referred to Committee on PROFESSIONAL LICEN- RYBAK, MELIO, VEON, WILLIAMS, SURE, October 16, 1989. BUSH, LASHINGER. JOSEPHS, NAHILL, No. 1995 By Representatives RYBAK, LAUGHLIN, DEMPSEY, BELFANTI, YANDRISEVITS, GRUPPO, McHALE, HARPER, DeLUCA, McHALE, FARMER, PRESSMANN, J. L. WRIGHT, BILLOW, FREEMAN, MARSICO, KASUNIC, DORR DIETTERICK, MORRIS, PRESTON, and CAPPABIANCA PESCI, COLAIZZO, BUNT, HALUSKA, MELIO, JOHNSON, B. SMITI-I, ITKIN, 1989 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 1637

An Act amending the act of March 10, 1949 (P. L. 30, No. FREIND. BELARDI. PISTELLA. 14), known as the "Public School Code of 1949," requiring com- B. D. CLARK and WILLIAMS munity colleges to give option to employees who are members of the Public School Employees' Retirement System to purchase An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Con- group health insurance for a certain period of time. solidated Statutes, further providing for revocation or suspension of operating privilege. Referred to Committee on EDUCATION, October 16, 19R9 Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, October 16, 1989. No. 1999 By Represenlalives JOHNSON, E. Z. TAYLOR, CAPPABIANCA, GEIST, No. 2004 By Representatives SCRIMENTI, BELFANTI, VROON, MELIO, HERSHEY, MRKONIC, DOMBROWSKI, DIETTERICK, SCHULER, PESCI, CAPPABIANCA, MAINE, PISTE1.I.A. ANGSTADT, HECKLER, JOSEPHS, OLASZ, JACKSON, VEON, COHEN, TIGUE, VEON, JACKSON, NAHILL, KOSINSKI, RAYMOND, TRICH, RUDY, KUKOVICH, BILLOW, O'BRIEN, KUKOVICH, JOHNSON, HALUSKA, BELARDI, SAURMAN, McHALE, ITKIN, TRELLO, TANGRETTI, CORRIGAN, MAINE, DORR, SERAFINI, OLASZ and PESCI, E. Z. TAYLOR, MORRIS, FOX STABACK, WILLIAMS, PETRARCA, McNALLY, MELIO, LAUGHLIN, TIGUE, An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) DeLUCA, BILLOW, JAMES, CIVERA, of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for inter- preters for deaf persons selected as jurors. LASHINGER, PRESTON and ANGSTADT Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, October 16, An Act deslgnat~ng Interstate Route 90 as the AMVETS Memorial Highway. 1989. Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, No. 2000 By Representatives DALEY and ROBINSON October 16, 1989. An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, providing for judicial review. No. 2005 By Representatives SERAFINI, COHEN, PESCI, GODSHALL, GIGLIOTTI, Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, HALUSKA, BELARDI, MRKONIC, October 16, 1989. KASUNIC, KOSINSKI, GEIST, MORRIS, No. 2001 By Representatives GAMBLE, McVERRY, MELIO, TlGUE and CAPPABIANCA PISTELLA, TRELLO, LEVDANSKY, An Act providing for admission to any Statc-owned or State- PETRONE. GIGLIOTTI, ITKIN and operated facility for physically impaired minors. CESSAR Referred to Committee on HEALTH AND WELFARE, An Act amending the act of July 28, 1953 (P. L. 723, No. October 16. 1989. 2301, known as the "Second Class County Code," further pro- viding for the location and storage of public records, for fees for copying certain public records, lor expenses of county officers BILLS REMOVED FROM TABLE for attending annual association meetings, for publication of the controller's report, for conlracts in emergency situations, for 'The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader, contracts not requiring advertisement and building, for the gor- Robert O'Donnell from Philadelphia. erning body and powers of a residential linance authority, for Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that the follow- grave markers, for separate specifications and contracts for ing bills be taken from the table and placed on the active cal- certain items, for the appointment of assistant fire marshals, and for the title acquired in condemnation proceedings; and making endar: an editorial change. HB 521; Referred to Committee on LOCAL GOVERNMENT, HB 995; October 16, 1989. HB 1179; HB 1242; and No. 2002 By Representative SEMMEI. HB 1961. An Act designating the bridge on which Main Street crosses Trout Creek in the Borough of Slatington, Lehigh County, as the On the question, General Thomas R. Morgan Bridge. Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to. Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, October 16, 1989. No. 2003 By Representatives TRICH, DeWEESE, COLAIZZO, MELIO, TANGRETTI, ROBINSON, FOX, NAHILL., SERAFINI, LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

CALENDAR Will the House agree to the motion? BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION Motion was agreed to.

The House ~roceededto third consideration of HB 876. 1 BlLL REMOVED FROM TABLE PN 2028, entitled: The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. An Act amending Title 34 (Game) of the Pennsylvania Con- Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 1023 be solidated Statutes, further providing for the powers and duties of Game Commission officers. removed from the cable so that it can be placed on the active calendar on the first legislative day. On the question, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? BILL RECOMMITTED Motion was agreed to. I * * * The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1329, Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 876 on PN 1537, entitled: page 2 of today's calendar be recommitted to the Appropri- ations Committee. An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) or the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, providing for tire tread depth on school buses. On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? On the question, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Motion was agreed to. * * * BlLL REXOMMITTED The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 510, PN 572, entitled: The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 1329, An Act regulating auto insurance surcharge rates. PN 1537, on page 6 be recommitted to the Appropriations On the question, Committee for the purpose of a fiscal note. Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? On the uuestion, Will the House agree to the motion? BILL RECOMMITTED Motion was agreed to. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. O'DONNELL. Mr. Speaker, I move that HB 510 on I BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS PASSED OVER page 2 be recommitted to the Rules Committee The SPEAKER. Today's voting schedule, as announced by On thequestion, the majority leader, consists of HB 1305 on page 2 and HE Will the House agree to the motion? 176onpage3. Motion was agreed to. Without objection, the balance of today's calendar - bills

1 * * and resolutions - will go over in order. The Chair hears no objection. The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1023, PN 1165, entitled: LEAVES OF ABSENCE An Act amending Title 23 (Domestic Relations) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, adding provisions relating to The SPEAKER. Are there leaves of absence to be domestic relations; making conforming amendments to Titles 18 requested from the majority party? The Chair recognizes the and 42; and repealing certain acts and parts of acts supplied by majority whip, Representative DeWeese from Greene the act or otherwise obsolete. County, for the purpose of leaves. On thequestion, Mr. DeWEESE. Mr. Speaker, the only leave for today is Will the Housc agree to the bill on third consideration? for the gentleman from Erie, Mr. SCRIMENTI, and it is only a temporary leave. He is on his way in. It is a temporary leave for Mr. Scrimenti. The SPEAKER. Wilhout objection, the temporary leave TheSPEAKEK. Thc (:hair recognize5 thc majority leader. for Representative Scrimenti from Erie County brill be Mr. 0'DONNEI.I.. Mr. Speaker, I movc that HB 1023 on granted. The Chail hears no objcction. page 3 of today's calcndar hc placed upon the table. Are there leaves of absence to be requehted from the On the question, minority party? The Chair recognizes the minority whip, Rep- resentative Hayes, for the purpose of leave?. 1989 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 1639

Mr. HAYES. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ADDITIONS-0 1 request a leave for the gentleman from Delaware County, NOT VOTING-0 Mr. MICOZZIE, for the week. The SPEAKER. Without objection, the leave requested for Representative Micozzie will he granted. The Chair hears Micozzie Scrimenti no objection. LEAVES CANCELED-I

MASTER ROLL CALL

The SPEAKER. The Chair is about to take the master roll. WELCOMES Members are to indicate their presence in the Assembly hall by voting "yea" on the master roll call. Members are to indicate The SPEAKER. The Chair is happy to welcome to the hall their presence by voting "yea." Members will proceed to of the House this afternoon Steve Kundla and Sandy Dill vote. from Indiana County. Mr. Kundla received the Volunteer Award on this day for the World Food Day for Indiana The following roll call was recorded: County. Sandy is the food program coordinator. They are PRESENT-201 here as the guests of Paul Wass and are to the left of the Acosta Dombrowski Langtry Rieger Speaker. Will both of them stand, please. Adolph Donatucci Lashinger Ritter The Chair is happy to welcome Kristen Bernardyn and Allen Dorr Laughlin Robbins Jeanette Mulligan, government students at Marian High Angstadt Durham Lee Robinson Argall Evans Leh Roebuck School. They are here today as the guests of Representative Barley Fairchild Lescovitz Rudy Lucyk, and they are to the left of the Speaker. Will they please Battisto Fargo Letterman Ryan stand. Belardi Farmer Levdansky Rybak Belfanti Fee Linton Saloom Also today the Chair is happy to welcome Jim Mintzer of Billow Fleagle Lloyd Saurman Lehigh University and Merrilee Hagaman and Liz Clark, both Birmelin Flick Lucyk Scheetz of Lafayette College. They are student interns. They are Bishop Foster McCall Schuler Black Fox McHale Semmel working with Representative Robert Freeman of North- Blaurn Freeman McNally Serafini ampton County. They are located in the gallery. Will they be Bortner Freind McVerry Smith, B. received by the House. Bowley Gallen Maiale Smith, S. H. Boyer Gamble Maine Snyder, D. W. Brandt Cannon Markosek Snyder, G. MISS PENNSYLVANIA-USA PRESENTED Broujos Geist Marsico Staback Bunt George Mayernik Stairs The SPEAKER. We have with us this afternoon Miss Penn- Burd Cigliotti Melio Steighner Burns Gladeck Merry Stish sylvania of 1990. She was chosen Miss Pennsylvania in March Bush Godshall Michlovic Strittmatter of 1989. Her name is Elizabeth Cehak. She is here with us in Caltagirone Gruitza Miller Stuban Harrisburg as the guest of the House and Representative Cappabianca Gruppo Moehlmann Tangretti Carlson Hagarty Morris Taylor, E. Z. David Mayernik. She hails from Allegheny County, and 1 Carn Haluska Mowers Taylor, F. would like to introduce not only Miss Cebak hut Representa- Cawley Harper Mrkonic Taylor, J. tive Mayernik, who will do the honors. Representative Cessar Hasay Murphy Telek Chadwick Hayden Nahill Thomas Mayernik. Civera Hayes Nailor Tigue Mr. MAYERNIK. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Clark, B. D. Heckler Noye Trello It gives me great pleasure to announce to the General Clark. D. F. Herman O'Brien Trich Clark. J. H. Hershey O'Donnell Van Horne Assembly and introduce one of my constituents - Elizabeth Clymer Hess Olasz Veon Cebak. Elizabeth is the reigning Miss Pennsylvania-USA since Cohen Howlett Oliver Vroon March of 1989. Colafella Hughes Perzel Wambach Colaizzo ltkin Pesci Wars At age 22 Elizabeth is a senior at the University of Cole Jackson Petrarca Weston Pittsburgh studying media communications. After she Cornell Jadlowiec Petrone Williams receives her bachelor's, she intends to continue her education Corrigan James Phillips Wilson Cowell Jaralin Piccola Wogan at the University of Pittsburgh attending graduate school and COY Johnson Pievsky Wozniak majoring in English. Elizabeth is representing Pennsylvania in DeLuca Jo~ephs Pistella Wright, D. R. February of 1990 in Hawaii where we wish her our best in DeWeese Kaiser Pitts Wright, J. L. Daley Kasunic Pressman" Wright, R. C. becoming the next Miss Pennsylvania-USA and Miss USA for Davies Kenney Preston Yandrisevits the entire Nation. Dempsey Kondrich Raymond I would like to present a citation to Elizabeth and have her Dietterick Kosinski Reber Manderino, Dininni Kukovich Reinard Speaker say a few words. Dirtler LaGrotta Richardson Miss CEBAK. Hello. I would like to thank you very much for having me here today. It is certainly a great honor to rep- LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16, resent a State which I am very proud of, and I am sure each Belfanti Fee I.inton Saloom and every one of you share that excitement with me represent- Billow Fleagle Lloyd Saurman Birmelin Flick Lucyk Scheet~ ing your State as well. Bishop Foster McCall Schuler I began my reign about 4 months ago as a representative of Black Fox McHale Semmel the State of Pennsylvania, but eventually I did develop into Blaum Freeman hlcNally Serafini Bortner Freind McVerry Smith, B. being known more as a spokesperson for my generation and Bowley Gallen Maiale Smith, S. H. what~ ~ vouth has to offer our State since we will eventuallv Bover Gamble Maine Snyder. D. W make quite a substantial contribution to our economic status ~randt Gannon Markorek ~n),der,G. Broujoi Geist Mariico Staback in our communities. Bunt George Mayernik Stairs Basically what 1 have been doing during my reign as Miss Burd Gieliotti Melio Steighner Pennsylvania is addressing my peers on the issues of Burns Gladeck Merry Stish Bush Codshall Michlovic Strittmatter entrepreneurial businesses and how we can utilize our particu- Caltagirone Gr~litza Miller Stuban lar interests and talents into a marketable business, and not Cappabianca GrUppo Moehlmann Tangretti only help the job markets in our communities but perhaps do ~aiison Hagarty Morris ~aylor,E. 2. Carn Haluska Mowery Taylor, F. something about particular areas that may have a monopoly Cawley Haiper Mrkonic Taylor, J. surrounding them at the time. Cessar Haiay Murphy Telek Basically, my message to you is that we cannot possibly Chadwick Hayden Nahill Thomas Civera Hayes Nailor Tigue invest enough time in our youth today. They need an Clark, B. D. Heckler Noye Trello incredible amount of direction, and it might be peace of mind Clark. D. F. Herman O'Brien Trich to know that the people that eventually will take each one of Clark. J. H. Hershey O'Donnell Van Horne Clylllcr Hess Olasz Veon our places in the near future have had input from yourself in Cohen Howlett Oliver vroon the knowledge and experience you have gained over the years. Colafella Hughes Perrel Wambach It is amazing that a few minutes, 5 minutes of our time can be Colairro ltkin Pesci Wass Cole Jackson Petrarca Weston an incredible amount of knowledge and education for them to Cornell Jadlowiec Petrane Williams draw back on from time to time as they undergo the dreams Corrigan James Phillips Wilson and aspirations that they have been working towards. Cowell Jarolin Piccola Wogan COY Johnson Pievsky Wazniak On that point I would like to thank you again for having me DeLuca Josephs Pistella Wright, D. R. and David Mayernik for inviting me this afternoon. It has DeWeese Kaiser Pilts Wright, J. L. been quite a pleasure. Thank you very much. Daley Kasunic Pressmann Wright, R. C. Davies Kenney Preston Yandrisevits The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks Representative Dempsey Kondrich Raymond Mayernik. The Chair congratulates Miss Pennsylvania and Dietterick Kosinski Reber Manderino. wishes her the best in her reign. Dininni Kukovich Reinard Speaker Distler LaGrotta Richardson NAY S-0 BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION CONTINUED I NOT VOTING-0 EXCUSED-2 The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 1305, PN 1508, entitled: Micozzie Scrimenti An Act amending the act of December 31, 1965 (P. L. 1257, The majority required by the Constitution having voted in No. 51 I), known as "The Local Tax Enabling Act," further pro- the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirma- viding for delegation of taxing powers. tive and the bill passed finally. On the question, Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? concurrence. Bill was agreed to. BILLS REPORTED FROM COMMITTEE, The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three dif- CONSIDERED FIRST TIME, AND TABLED ferent days and agreed to and is now on final passage. The question is, shall the bill pass finally? HB 722, PN 2595 (Amended) Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas By Rep. CALTAGIRONE and nays will now be taken. An Act amending Title I8 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Penn- YEAS-201 sylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for confiscation of certain vehicles used in scattering rubbish in cities of the first Acosta Dombrowski Langtry Rieger class. Adolph Donatucci 1,arhinger Ritter Allen Dorr Laughlin Robbinr JUDICIARY. Angstadt Durham Lee Robinson Argall Evans Lch Roebuck HB 836, PN 954 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE Barley Fairchild Lescovitz Rudy Bauista Fargo Letterman Ryan Belardi Farmer Lerdanskv Rvbak LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

An Act amending the act of April 9, 1929 (P. L. 177, No. 1751, On the question, known as "The Administrative Code of 1929," providing for Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? protection services for child victims and witnesses in cities of the Mr. DALEY offered the following amendments No. first class; and authorizing grants for such services. A3188: JUDICIARY. Amend Title, page 1, lines 1 through 3, by striking out all of HB 855, PN 2596 (Amended) said lines and inserting By Rep. CALTAGIRONE providing for a witness assistance program for wit- nesses of crimes in this Commonwealth. An Act amending the act of April 14, 1972 (P. L. 233, No. 64), known as "The Controlled Substance, Drug, Device and Cos- Amend Bill, page 1, lines 6 through 18; page 2, lines I through metic Act," classifying anabolic steroids as a Schedule I1 con- 4, by striking out all of said lines on said pages and inserting trolled substance. Section 1. Legislative findings, declaration and intent. The General Assembly finds and declares as follows: JUDICIARY. (1). . There is a need to develo~methods to reduce the trauma and insensitive treatment that witnesses may experi- HB 1546, PN 2597 (Amended) ence in the wake of a crime, since all too oftcn citizens who By Rep. CALTAGIRONE become involved with the criminal justice system as witnesses An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) to crime, are treated inconsiderately by that system. of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing (2) Witnesses must make arrangements to appear in exclusions from exemptions from process. court regardless of their own schcdulcs, child care responsibil- ities or transportation problems, and they often find long JUDICIARY. waits, crowded courthouse hallways and confusing circum- HB 1826, PN 2335 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE stances, and after testifying, receive no information as to the disposition of the case. An Act amending Title I3 (Commercial Code) of the Pennsyl- (3) A large number of witnesses are unaware of both vania Consolidated Statutes, conforming the text of the title to their rights and obligations. the current official text of the Uniform Commercial Code relat- (4) It is, therefore, the intent of the General Assembly ing to uncertificated securities. to provide services to meet the needs of witnesses of crime JUDICIARY. through the funding of local comprehensive centers for witness assistance. HB 1903, PN 2598 (Amended) Section 2. Witness Assistance Fund. By Rep. CALTAGIRONE There is hereby established in the State Treasury the Witness An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) Assistance Fund. Funds paid into this fund shall be dispensed to of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for addi- the Office of the Attorney General exclusively for the purposes tional judges. specified in this act. Section 3. Funds available and awarded to public and private JUDICIARY. nonprofit agencies; report to General Assem- bly. SB 484, PN 508 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE (a) Funds.-Funds from the Witncss Assistance Fund shall An Act amending the act of August 11, 1967 (P. L. 205, No. be made available through the Office of the Attorney General to 69). entitled "An act to validate conveyances and other instru- any public or private nonprofit agency for the assistance of wit- ments which have been defectively acknowledged," extending the nesses which provides comprehensivr services to witnesses of all effectiveness of the act. types of crimes. It is the intent of the General Assembly to make JUDICIARY. funds available only to programs which do not restrict services to witnesses of a narticular tvnc,. of crime. (b) Awarding funds-The Office of the Attorney General BILL REPORTED AND REREFERRED TO shall consider the following factors, together with any other cir- COMMITTEE ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT cumstances it deems appropriate, in a\\arding funds to public or vrivate nonurofit agencies designated a5 witness assistance HB 1802, PN 2276 By Rep. CALTAGIRONE centers: (1) The capability of the agency to provide comprehen~ An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) sive services, of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further defining The stated goals and objectives of the center. "municipal police officer." (2) (3). , The number of .neoole . to bc served and the needs of JUDICIARY. the community.

I (4) Evidence of community~ support.~~ (5) The organizational structore of the agency which BILLS ON THIRD will operate the center. CONSIDERATION CONTINUED (c), . Evaluation of ccntrrs-The Office of the Attornev General shall conduct an evaluation of the activities and perform- The House proceeded to third consideration of HB 176, PN ance of the agencies receiving funds pursuant to this act. 195. entitled: Section 4. Activities in connection with primary and optional services. An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pcnn- In order to insure the effective delivery of comprehensive ser- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for the grading vices to witnesses, an agency receiving funds pursuant to this act and offense of a former convict not to own a firearm. shall carry out all of the follawing activities in connection with bath primary and optional services: 1642 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

(I) Translation services for non-English-speaking wit- (c) Transfer to fund.-The Department of Revenue shall nesses or hearing-impaired witnesses. determine annually the total amount designated pursuant to this (2) Follow-up contact to determine whether the client section and shall report such amount to the State Treasurer, who received the necessary assistance. shall transfer such amount from the General Fund to the Witness (3) Field visits to a client's home, place of business or Assistance Fund. The Department of Revenue shall be reim- other location, whenever necessqry to provide services. bursed from the fund for any administrative costs incurred above (4) Services to witnesses of all types of crimes. and beyond the cost savings it realizes as a result of individual (5) Volunteer participation to encourage community total refund designations. involvement. (d) lnstructiotls for returns.-The Department of Revenue Section 5. Primary and optional services. shall provide adequate information concerning the fund in its (a) Primary services.-Comprehensive services shall include instructions which accompany State income tax return forms. all of the following primary services: (e) Tax years,-This section shall apply to taxable years (I) Emergency assistance for the direct or indirect pro- beginning on or after January I, 1989. vision of food, housing, clothing, and, when necessary, cash. Section 8. Effective date. (2) Direct counseling of the witness on problems result- This act shall take effect in @days. ing from the crime. (3 Orientation to the criminal justice system. On the question, (4) Court escort. Will the House agree to the amendments? (5) Presentations to and training of criminal justice AMENDMENTS WITHDRAWN system agencies. (6) Public presentations and publicity. The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Washington, Repre- (7) Monitoring appropriate court cases to keep wit- sentative Daley, requests recognition on the amendment. nesses apprised of the progress and outcome of their case. (8) Notification to the employer of the witness, if Mr. DALEY. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. requested by the witness, informing the employer that the The purpose of this amendment is to establish a witness employee was a witness to a crime and asking the employer to assistance program in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. minimize any loss of pay or other benefits which may result We are having some discussions at this point in terms of what because of the employee's participation in the criminal justice is actually established in Pennsylvania at the option of various system. district attorneys. During that conference I think I have been (b) Optional services.-Comprehensive services may include the following optional services, if their provision does not pre- enlightened to the point where I think it is a necessity for me clude the efficient provision of primary services: to withdraw this amendment at this time until I make sure that (I) Employer intervention. my needs are being addressed, and I think that they may have (2) Creditor intervention. been, so I do not want to put the legislature through an exer- (3) Child care. cise in futility, Mr. Speaker, so 1 do withdraw the amend- (4) Notification to witnesses of any change in the court calendar. ment. (5) Crime prevention information. The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Daley, indicates that (6) Witness protection, including arranging for law the amendment that was to be offered is being withdrawn. enforcement protection or relocating witnesses in new resi- dences. On the question recurring, (7) Assistance in obtaining temporary restraining Will the House agree to the hill on third consideration? orders. (8) Transportation. The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. (9) Provision of a waiting area, during court proceed- Michlovic, have an amendment to this hill? ings, separate from defendants and families and friends of Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, I do, Mr. Speaker. I gave it to the defendants. amendment clerk a few minutes ago. Section 6. Standards for activities and services; effectiveness of The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. agencies. (a) Standards.-The Office of the Attorney General, in The House will be at ease. cooperation with representatives from local witness assistance agencies, shall develop standards defining the activities and ser- WELCOME vices.... enumerated..~~~ ~ under this~ ~....act^ (b) Reviews.-The Office of the Attorney General, in coop- The SPEAKER. While the House is at ease, it gives the eration with renresentatives from local witness assistance anen- Speaker much pleasure to introduce to the members of the cies, shall deveiop a method of evaluating the activities and per- formance of receiving funds under this act. House this afternoon the president of Pennsylvania's Soft

Section-~~~~~~ 7. ~oluntarv~~~ contribution svstem Drink Association. Now.. the -rentleman is sitting lo the left of (a) Tax return.-The Department of Revenue shall provide the Speaker on the rostrum with his wife, Nan, and his a space on the face of the Pennsylvania individual income tax daughter, Wendy. He sits there not because he is president of return form whereby an individual may voluntarily designate a Pennsylvania's Soft Drink Association but because he is a contribution of $I to the Witness Assistance Fund established by this act. personal friend of the Speaker - Pete Cameron of Cameron (b) Deduct for refund.-The amount so designated by an Coca-Cola. individual on the income tax return form shall be deducted from The Chair does not want to slight the Washington County the tax refund to which such individual is entitled and shall not delegation, who also are sponsoring the appearance here of constitute a charge against the income tax revenues due the Com- monwealth. Peter Cameron. The family is the guest of the Washington County delegation.

1644 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

copy can not be found to be within the meaning of this para- (b) Certain sales, transfers, etc.-No assault weapon pos- graph. sessed pursuant to this section may be sold or transferred on or (2) A firearm first manufactured or sold to the general after 90 days following the effective date of this subchapter, to public in Pennsylvania 90 days after the effective date of this anyone within this Commonwealth other than to a licensed gun subchapter, which has been redesigned, renamed or renum- dealer, as defined herein. Any person who: bered from one of the firearms listed in section 6181, or which (1) obtains title to an assault weapon registered under is manufactured or sold by another company under a licensing this section by bequest or intestate succession; agreement to manufacture or sell one of the firearms listed (2) moves into this Commonwealth in lawful possession therein regardless of the company of production or distribu- of an assault weapon; or tion, or the country of origin. (3) lawfully possessed a firearm subsequently declared (b) Declaration of temporary suspension.-Upon the issu- to be an assault weapon under this subchapter; ance of a declaration of temporary suspension by the court and shall, within 90 days, either render the weapon permanently inop- after the Attorney General has completed the notice requirements erable, sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer or remove the of subsection (c)(l), the provisions of subsection (a) shall apply weapon from this Commonwealth. A person who lawfully pos- with respect to those weapons. sessed a firearm which was subsequently declared to be an assault (c) Notice.- weapon under section 6182 (relating to determination of court) (1) Upon declaration of temporary suspension, the may alternatively register the firearm within 90 days of that decla- Attorney General shall immediately notify all police, sheriffs, ration. district attorneys and those requesting notice pursuant to sub- (c) Conditions of possession.-A person who has registered section (d), shall notify industry and association publications an assault weapon under this section may possess it only under for those who manufacture, sell or use firearms, and shall the following conditions unless a permit allowing additional uses publish notice in not less than ten newspapers of general circu- is first obtained: lation in geographically diverse sections of this Common- (1) At that person's residence, place of business, or wealth of the fact that the declaration has been issued. other property owned by that person, or on property owned (2) The Attorney General shall maintain a list of any by another with the owner's express permission. persons who request to receive notice of any declaration of (2) While on the premises of a target range of a public temporary suspension and shall furnish notice under para- or private club or organization organized for the purpose of graph (I) to all these persons immediately upon a court decla- practicing shooting at targets. ration. Notice shall also be furnished by the Attorney General (3) While on a target range which holds a regulatory or by certified mail, return receipt requested (or substantial business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that equivalent if the person to receive same resides outside the target range. United States), to any known manufacturer and Pennsylvania (4) While on the premises of a shooting club. distributor of the weapon subject of the temporary suspension (5) While attending any exhibition, display or educa- order or their statutory agent for service. The notice shall be tional project which is about firearms and which is sponsored deemed effective upon mailing. by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law (d) Hearing.-After issuing a declaration of temporary sus- enforcement agency or a nationally or State recognized entity pension under this section, the court shall set a date for hearing that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, fire- on a permanent declaration that the weapon is an assault weapon. arms. The hearing shall be set no later than 30 days from the date of (6) While transporting the assault weapon between any issuance of the declaration of temporary suspension. The hearing of the places mentioned in this subsection. may be continued for good cause thereafter. Any manufacturer No person who is under 18 years of age, no person who is prohib- or Pennsylvania distributor of the weapon which is the subject of ited from possessing a firearm by this chapter may register or the temporary suspension order has the right, within 20 days of possess an assault weapon. The registration procedures shall notification of the issuance of the order, to intervene in the provide the option of joint registration for assault weapons action. Any manufacturer or Pennsylvania distributor who fails owned by family members residing in the same household. to timely exercise its right- of intervention, or any other nerson B 6184. Relinquishment of weapons. who manufaiturcrs. $ells or ouns the assaulr wzapon may. In the court's discretion, thereafvr join the action as amicu, curiae. (e) Burden of proof.-At the hearing, the burden of proof is 5 6185. ~icensedgun dealers. upon the Attorney General to show by a preponderance of evi- (a) General rule.-Any licensed gun dealer, as defined in dence that the weapon which is the subject of the declaration of subsection (b). who lawfully uossesses an assault weaDon under temporary suspension is an assault weapon. If the court finds the this subchapt'ei;in additio; to the uses allowed hereunder, may weaDon to be an assault weauon it shall issue a declaration transport the weapon between dealers or out of this Common- theriof. Any part) to the marrc; ma). appeal the court'\ decision. uealrh. dlsplay it itan). gun rhou li:en,ed by a State or local gov- A declaration that rhc weapon is an assaulr weapon shall remain ernmonral entity. rrll it to a rr,iJznt outside [hi$ Commonwealth. in effect during the pendency of the appeal unless ordered other- or sell it to a person who as been issued a permit pursuant to this wise by the appellate court. subchapter. Any transporting allowed by this section must be 5 6183. Registration. done as required by this subchapter. (a) General rule.-Any person who lawfully possesses an (b) Definition.-The term "licensed gun dealer," as used in assault weapon, prior 90 days after the effective date of this sub- this article means a person who has a Federal firearms license and chapter, shall register the firearm within one year of that effective any business license required by a State or local governmental date, with the Attorney General to those procedures which the entity. Office of Attornev General mav establish. The reeistration- shall 5 6186. Penalties. contain a description of the firearm that identifies it uniquely, (a) Unlawful manufacture, importation, etc.-Any person including all identification marks, the full name, address, date of who within this Commonwealth manufactures or causes to be birth, and thumbprint of the owner, and any other information manufactured, dirtriburec, rransportr or importr into thir Com- as the department may deem appropriate. The department may monucalrh, keeps for sale. or offers or exposes lor sale, or uho charge a fee for registration of up to $20 per person but not to gives or lends any assault weapon, except as provided by this sub- exceed the actual processing costs of the department. chapter, is guilty of a felony of the third degree. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

(b) Unlawful possession.-Any person possessing an assault the Attorney General's Office. What is the purpose of putting weapon in violation of this subchapter commits a misdemeanor this information - the fingerprinting and the registration - of the first degree for a first offense, and a felony of the third ,,,hat is the purpose of keeping this information with the degree for each subsequent offense. Attorney General in his office, and what is he going to do with 6 6187. Application of subchapter. .* Thls subchapter shall not apply to the use or possession of It! assault weapons by State or local law enforcement agencies, the Mr. MICHLOVIC. Mr. Speaker, I believe the purpose of military forces of this Commonwealth or the Armed Forces of the that nrovision is really to discourage people from the owner- united-states. ship of the weapon. If those persons who own such Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 4, by striking out "2" and insert- devastating weapons still wish to keep them, because we do ing 2 not wish to outlaw them or make it retroactive, if they still wish to continue to own them, then at least the Attorney On the question, General knows exactly who they are, and I think he should. Will the House agree to the amendments? Mr. GODSHALL. So if there are 300 or 400,000 of these G he SPEAKER. On that question, Representative guns owned by law-abiding Pennsylvanians, you are going to Michlovic from Allegheny County is recognized. keep their names and fingerprints in the Attorney General's Mr. MICHLOVIC. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Office so he knows who those 400 or 500,000 people are. Is Mr. Speaker, the members on the floor will be familiar with that correct? this amendment because it is the same one 1 introduced last M,. MICHLOVIC. I would strongly disagree with your week on the assault weapon ban. It is exactly the same Ian- numbers of 300 and 400,000 Pennsylvanians who own assault guage, exactly the same amendment, and I am offering it to weapons. I think the Pennsylvanians ultimately who own HB 176 because this bill does deal with the proper title and assault weaponsare drug lords. section of the law and there should not be a question of ger- M,, GODSHALL. ~h~tis the end of my interrogation. 1 maneness. This bill, HB 176, deals with firearms and the would like to make a comment on the amendment. Criminal Code regarding the firearms. The amendment would ~h~ SPEAKER. ~h~ gentleman is in order and may ban a series of assault weapons, all of which are listed in the proceed, amendment. And if you recall, 1 passed on the floor last week MI. GODSHALL. ~h~~kyou, Mr. Speaker. a memo which had pictures of those assault weapons, and Last week 1 believe we covered the fact that the courts nothing has been changed in lhat amendment from last week. under this amendment could extensively increase the list of I wanted to take this opportunity to remind this legislature guns which are outlawed well over and beyond the types that that I think we have an opportunity today to do something are listed here. We also covered the fact that there is a clause very important in the battle against drugs in this Common- in here that if there is a look-alike gun or a similar gun, we do wealth, and that is to take the weapons out of the drug trade. not know who is going to make that determination, but again, here are those who may question whether this falls under a those guns could be eliminated from use by legitimate sports- constitutional provision on right to bear arms and the such, men. we now find that there is a registration clause in here and I remind you that these are weapons of war. In fact, even which means, again, that the legitimate sportsman or in the Digest of Guns they list these as military and police gunowner will be required to the guns and he finger- weapons. These are weapons of war just like hand grenades, printed, just like bazookas, like other kinds of war materials. I would like to call your attention to a U.S. Supreme Court I would ask that this House vote for the amendment and get case-l think this is important-the U.S. Supreme Court case on with the business of taking out the terrible devastation that which came down in 1968 in H~~~~~ v. united states, which these weapons place on our constituents throughout the Corn- said, quote, "A person possessing a firearm illegally could not monwealth. Thank you. be prosecuted for failing to register that firearm under the reg- The SPEAKER. On whether or not the House will agree to istration provisions of the National Firearms Act of 1934. the amendnlent, the Chair recognizes, from Montgomery such a person, in registering, would be subject to possible County, Representative Godshall. self-incrimination. The Fifth Amendment protects an individ- Mr. GODSHALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ual from having to run such a risk," end of quote. I would like to interrogate the maker of the amendment. So what we are saying here is that under a Supreme Court The SPEAKER. He indicates that he will stand for inter- ruling, criminals are not required to register the guns but our rogation. You may procced. law-abiding constituents are. That is another reason to vote Mr. GODSHALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. "no" on this amendment. There are a couple points that I would like to cover which 1 ~i~~ll~,it says, "NO assault weapon-" 1 am not really did no1 have a chance to hecausc of the quickness of the the full definition of weapon," but "No amendment in receiving it and running it last week, but I assault weapon possessed pursuant to this section may he sold would like to cover them with the maker of the amendment. or transferred on or after 90 days following the effective date One is on page 4 pertaining to the registration. I believe it of this subchapter, to anyone within this Commonwealth, ..." requires that all such guns be registered and the person who then it says, "...lawfully possessed a firearm subse. owns the guns be fingerprinted and the registration held by 1646 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

quently declared to be an assault weapon under this subchap- Up until a few days ago I assume I had a very good rating ter; shall, within 90 days, either render the weapon perma- on these issues, but these guns are different. These guns, if nently inoperable,"-in other words, smash it or whatever- somebody is going to commit horror on the playground with a "sell the weapon to a licensed gun dealer, ..." and I am not gun, that is had enough. With one of these cannons, they are sure there are going to be many licensed gun dealers out there going to take down two to three dozen people before someone buying weapons which are not allowed to be possessed in or something can get to them. I think that is what makes this Pennsylvania. So in effect, that gun is going to become a amendment different. This is not gun control. This is semiau- worthless commodity. tomatic- and automatic-military-attack-weapon control. I So for all these reasons, I know the 3 to 4 million think in Pennsylvania we have a responsibility-the 203 of gunowners in the State of Pennsylvania, the sportsmen of us-to stand up and say, this is not gun control. We get to Pennsylvania, the NRA (National Rifle Association), and say, we get to say-the 203 of us-we get to say what is gun many of your constituents ask you to vote "no" on this control, and this is not. amendment. Thank you. We also have a chance today to stand up and say that these The SPEAKER. The question is, will the House agree to the weapons, as Representative Michlovic very courageously amendment? On that question, the gentleman from Chester, described them, these weapons are totally different, totally Mr. Vroon, seeks recognition on the amendment. different, and those that have them are going to be able to Mr. VROON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. keep them. What we do not want to do is allow any future Just a very few choice words, Mr. Speaker: A lot of you sales of these kinds of weapons. They are simply totally dif- people may wonder, why has Peter Vroon got his name on ferent than anything that our sportsmen, that our constitu- this amendment, and I just want to make it very emphatically ents, are accustomed to. clear why. I have an overwhelming amount of support for this 1 would ask the members of the House to approve it, amendment in my constituency on both sides of the aisle - remembering again that what separates this from gun control both Democrats and Republicans - an overwhelming amount is that if horror is going to be committed, a number of of support. 1 am reacting to my constituency. That is number people-and we do not know what the ages of those people one. are going to be-a number of those people are going to be Number two, you come up with this kind of a remark, say, taken down before the perpetrator of that crime can be guns do not kill people; people kill people. All right; I will subdued. That is what makes it different, and that is why we take you at your word for that, and 1 will say, that is what I should approve this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. am worried about. People will kill people with these guns. So The SPEAKER. On the amendment, Representative what kind of people will kill? The kooks out there. Gamble from Allegheny County is recognized. Let me tell you, you look at every one of these examples Mr. GAMBLE. Mr. Speaker, after much soul searching where somebody went out and sprayed a shopping area, and after having talked to some of the sportsmen in my dis- people in the shopping area, and who do you find they are? trict, I rise to support this amendment. I hope that my fellow They are kooky people - mentally imbalanced, emotionally members in the General Assembly are not misled by the oppo- disturbed people. Do you want to keep on going like that just sition of the NRA and the sportsmen, because they do not for the pride of being able to say that we are allowed to bear speak, I know, for the majority of sportsmen, especially in my arms? Then 1 would just say to you, humbug. You ought to district, because the ones I talked to are a good reading of listen to your constituents and find out what they want instead how the people in my district feel. of to the very heavy special interests who want to scare you to These are not rifles that we hunt with nor are they target death and say, I will not support you next time for election if pistols. These are assault weapons, as Representative Blaum you vote for this. has just stated to you. There is no correlation between this Let us have a good genuine vote on this, and think of your and are you antigun or are you not. I am not antigun, hut 1 constituents. Think how you would feel if your wife and your am anti-war weapons in the hands of people that should not children were walking in a shopping center or any other public have them, and I think this is a good and decent vote for the place and all of a sudden one of these kooky people started citizens of Pennsylvania. Vote "yes." spraying a gun and killed one or more of your own loved The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. ones. Stop and think about that and say, how proud are YOU The Chair asks Representative Itkin from Allegheny to identify yourself with the gun dealers and the NRA? County to preside for the Speaker in the Speaker's absence. The SPEAKER. On the amendment. Re~resentativeBlaum from Luzerne County is recognized. THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE Mr. BLAUM. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. (IVAN ITKIN) IN THE CHAIR I think every once in a while an issue arrives on the floor of this House-which is the right place-and it arrives at the ~h,SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair now recognizes the right time, and 1 believe that this amendment arrives on the from perry, M~,N~~~, floor of this House at the right time and that it should be NOY~,Thank you, M~,speaker, approved. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

Once again we find ourselves referring to some unfortunate involved in drug activities, you run into these weapons. And incidents that have occurred throughout this country on occa- God forbid that it is someone that is related to you, because sion to hype the emotions of people on the issue. The issue is you cannot tell if it is a replica. You cannot tell if it has been simply the individuals involved in the perpetration of those imported. You cannot tell if it is automatic or semiautomatic. crimes and why those individuals were able to obtain those 1 do not know a lot about guns, but 1 will tell you one thing: 1 weapons. We had all the laws on the books necessary to can make any one of these weapons automatic in 10 minutes. curtail what happened, but there are those people out there That is a fact. who involve themselves in illegal activities, and no amount of Let us be honest. How many of your sportsmen hunt with law is going to prohibit an individual from obtaining a look-alike AK-47's? How many need them? I saw one hand weapon to carry out those kinds of crimes if they are so go up, and I guarantee you he cannot name more than 2 out inclined to do so. of 58,000. Let us stop the charade. Let us stand up and say, We are right back to square one on the basic issue here. We this is wrong. Will incidents as Mr. Noye said happened can put all the rhetoric we want on the record. None of us occur? Of course they will. That logic is specious at best. If wants to see those kinds of things happen, but they can that is the logic, we should not pass any laws, because we happen, and even if this becomes law, those incidents can and know when we pass a law, somebody is going to break it. We will occur, whether it be with this kind of weapon or some do not condone it, but we try to do what is right. We try to other kind of weapon. safeguard the public's interest. Let us not fool ourselves. The issue here is gun registration Vote for this amendment and safeguard everyone you can. and gun control, and it is nothing more. 1 ask you to defeat Thank you. the amendment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- man. man and recognizes the gentleman from Luzerne, Mr. Tigue. On the question of agreeing to the Michlovic amendment, Mr. TIGUE. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. the Chair now recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Godshall, from Mr. Speaker, I stand in support of the Michlovic amend- Montgomery County for the second time. ment. Mr. GODSHALL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to clear First of all, let me say that we have heard a lot of rhetoric up a couple of points. about gun control - this is the first step, etcetera, etcetera, et First of all, automatic weapons have been in this country cetera. If you look at the list of weapons that are enclosed in for many years, and you can own them by permit, and I think this amendment, you will see things like the AK-47. Currently that will probably be answered afterwards. But we are not you are not allowed to own an AK-47 anywhere in the United really looking at automatic weapons; we are looking at semi- States. You cannot own an M-16, an AR-15 series, the Colt automatic weapons. series listed in here, because in fact they are automatic As far as magazine load, somebody made the statement weapons. Nothing to do with semiautomatic weapons or any- that the guns that are listed in this amendment are not being thing else; these are military assault weapons which no one used by the sportsmen. There are legitimately, I believe, can legally own unless they are in fact a bona fide collector. between 303 and 400,000 SKS rifles being used by the sports- Collectors can still own weapons in accordance with this men in this country, not necessarily in Pennsylvania, and 1 amendment. What we are saying is it is time to let us stand up will fully admit that that is probably one gun that you can and be honest. We are not selling Mattel toys, look-alike toys, also- It says "with detachable magazine" here. 1 think you to some 7-year-old. We are selling replicas of AK-47's, UZI's, can extend the clip, as you can extend the clip on many of the and various other machine guns and assault weapons made firearms that we have and that are used by the sportsmen of throughout the world. Pennsylvania and this country, and by extending that clip, if It is interesting, in fact it is sad, that the Federal Gnvern- somebody so desires to do so, you are going to throw it into ment prohibits the importation of a number of these weapons this category of weapons that is covered in this amendment but they did not take the last step. They only went halfway. right here. Why is it okay to ban the importation of some of these So that is a couple of points that I did want to bring out. It weapons and then say it is okay to manufacture them in the still remains a fact that the criminal element does not go to the United States? Whose interest is at stake? gun store, produce and buy a gun similar to what we are The NRA in its position, as Mr. Gamble said, does not rep- talking about here. He gets them by other means. He does not resent the sportsman. It represents the gun industry, the gun give a Social Security number, show his license, and every- lobby, the gun manufacturers. This bill is a hill dealing with thing else that goes with it; he gets them by other means. the prohibition of the right to firearms by those people con- So all this is doing is placing restrictions on the legitimate victed of drug use, drug sales, drug manufacturing. law-abiding gunowner and your constituents. That is exactly Law enforcement people better stand up and show us where what it is doing, and I again ask for a "no" vote. they stand so that we can protect them on the streets. If you The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen- are a law enforcement agent, whether you are DEA (Drug tleman from Allegheny, Mr. Cowell. Enforcement Agency), State Police, et cetera, and you are 1648 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

Mr. COWELL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is emotional, things have happened, and we have read the Mr. Speaker, if we were in the unfortunate position in this papers, hut it is not fair to penalize the 2 or 3 million who are Commonwealth of coming off the heels of some schoolyard law-abiding because of a handful of those who could not care tragedy Or shopping center tragedy, I suspect that a majority, what kind of a law we pass. They are going to do and commit at least a majority in this House, would he tripping over one their mayhem regardless of what we do. But do not be mis- another to vote in support of this kind of legislation. I would guided and do not be misrepresented to. This is a form of gun hope that rather than waiting for some tragedy to occur, control. This is registration where they will know where that where we have an opportunity to react to prove that we are gun is and where it is being kept. This is a step closer to com- concerned, we will he smart enough to act before the fact, plete guncontrol. smart enough to act so that we might help to avert a tragedy, We should defeat this amendment. and wecan do that by supporting this kind of legislation. It was suggested last week that this legislation was not MOTION TO RECOMMIT germane to the bill that was before us. We really were not very gutsy on that one, and we were not really very honest with The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen- ourselves. There is no ducking the issue this time. Obviously, tleman from Montgomery County, Mr. Fox. there is a gun measure before us, and the Michlovic amend- Mr. FOX. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ment deals with guns; in this case, weapons of war. We spent approximately 9 months of the House' time on We talk about tragedies where some lunatic might kill a the drug hills. There have been countless hearings; people bunch of kids in a schoolyard or a bunch of senior citizens at a have been involved. We have heard from every group imagi- senior citizens center or a hunch of our neighbors on a porch nable, and that is why we have good hills we passed last week in one of our communities or in a shopping center in one of and we have another one before us. our communities. This is not only a weapon that is sometimes We always have to find a balance between the rights of citi- found in the hands of the lunatic, but these are weapons of zens to bear arms and our obligation to protect the health, war. They are tools of the trade for some of the drug lords safety, and general welfare. There have been no hearings on that we were trying to deal with in last week's legislation. this amendment obviously, and I think a lot of citizens would I would very much urge that we serve our citizens and also like to hear from us on it, but I think it is only after careful serve the law enforcement people of this Commonwealth who deliberation. We have not heard from the appropriate groups put their lives on the line every day of the year by supporting that we could be hearing from, whether it he the NRA or the this kind of legislation. I think that the Michlovic legislation is Pennsylvania D.A.'s (District Attorney's) Association. not gun control. Kevin Blaum spoke very eloquently to the Because of the fact that we should be gathering before us all real issue here. We have an opportunity to he gutsy. We have information, I move to table this hill and rerefer it to the Judi- an opportunity to say, this is not gun control; this is not of ciary Committee for the appropriate hearings it deserves. great concern to the real sportsmen and the hunters of this Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Commonwealth. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would like to point This legislation, if it is defeated, will be in the best interests Out the inconsistency of the member's motion. One can either of the criminal element in this State, not in the best interests table or one can recommit. of the sportsmen of this State. I would urge that we support Mr. FOX. I choose to recommit then to the Judiciary Com- the Michlovic amendment. Thank you. mittee, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER pro tempore. On the question, the Chair The SPEAKER pro temporc. The gentleman from now recognizes thegentleman from Clearfield, Mr. George. Montgomery County makes a motion that the bill with the Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, I do not intend to be long, amendment he recommitted to the House Judiciary Commit- because I understand how emotional this question may be. I tee. just want to answer a couple of statements where one of the On the question, previous speakers said that this is not gun control. Well, it is Will the House agree to the motion? evident that that individual did not research what has been going on for a lot of years in that no matter what side of the The SPEAKER pro tempore. On that question, the Chair question we are on, whether we understand the constitution recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery, Mr. ~odshall. or not, we keep bringing up the matter that the Constitution Mr. 'ODSHALL. Mr. 'peaker, like vote this gives us the right to hear, own, and carry arms, and that is thing and get it done with and get it over with. I think that is exactly what we should be thinking about at this moment. the proper thing to do. Sure, we are concerned about these drug lords, but we should I am just asking- This is really not a hill; it is an amend- also be further concerned that when you pass legislation such ment, you know. we are ''' recommitting. There is as this legislation, those drug lords can buy, possess, manu- nothing in print at this time. It is an amendment. We cannot facture with their power and their money these guns that we recommit an amendment, ' do not Can we? are trying to insist that the decent law-abiding individual will The SPEAKER Pro temp0re. The thingYou can no longer be able to own, possess, and carry without registra- do is recommit the bill with the amendment. tion. This is not what we are all about down here. LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

Mr. GODSHALL. 1 would like to urge everybody to vote The question was determined in the negative, and the "no" on the recommittal. This came up last week; it came up motion was not agreed to. again; it will come up next week, so I just urge everybody to On the question recurring, vote "no" on the recommittal and then bring the bill forward. Will the House agree to the amendments? Thank you. The SPEAKER pro tempore. For what purpose does the On the question recurring, gentleman from Bucks, Mr. Heckler, rise? Will the House agree to the motion? Mr. HECKLER. To interrogate the maker of the amend- The following roll call was recorded: ment, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Mr. Michlovic consents to YEAS-31 being interrogated, and, Mr. Heckler, you may proceed. Argall Flick Langtry Saurman Mr. HECKLER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Belfanti FOX Lloyd Smith, B. Bowley Gruitza McCall Steighner Mr. Speaker, so that the members are sure that they are Burd ltkin McVerry Trich clear on some of the matters you raise in your amendment, is Bush Jarolin O'Brien Wass it correct that your amendment would deal both with weapons Cessar Kaiser Robinson Wogan Durham Kenney Rudy Wright, D. R. which are semiautomatic in nature and fully automatic? Farmer Kondrich Ryan Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, it is, but it is only specific to those NAYS-167 listed, and I remind the members that they were all pictured last week in the memo 1 sent to you. Acosta Dininni LaGrotta Raymond Adolph Distler Lashinger Reber Mr. HECKLER. And would it be fair to say that most of Allen Dombrawski Laughlin Reinard the weapons which are listed in your amendment are intended Angstadt Donatucci Lee Richardson originally as military arms; in the military adaptation they Barley Darr Leh Rieger Battisto Evans Lescovitz Ritter would have a switch which the soldier could throw to select Bclardi Fairchild Letterman Robbins either semiautomatic or fully automatic fire; and in order to Billow Fargo Levdansky Roebuck he sold at least in many States in this Nation, they are Birmelin Fee Lintan Rybak Bishop Fleagle Lucyk Saloom retrofitted in such a fashion that they are only able to be fired Black Faster MeHale Scheetr in a semiautomatic fashion. Is that correct? Blaum Freeman McNally Schuler Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, it is correct, and I remind you that Bonner Freind Maiale Semmel Bayes Gallen Maine Serafini the definitions of semiautomatic and automatic come from Brand1 Gamble Markosek Smith, S. H. the Federal 1934 law on machine guns. Broujos Cannon Marsiea Snyder, D. W Mr. HECKLER. Thank you. 1 have no other questions, but Bunt Geist Mayernik Snyder, G. Burns George Melia Staback I do have a few comments, if I may. Caltagirone Gigliotti Merry Stairs The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and Cappabianca Gladeck Michlovic Stish may proceed. Carlson Godshall Miller Strittmatter Carn Gruppo Moehlmann Stuban Mr. HECKLER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Cawley Hagarty Morris Tangletti Several years ago this General Assembly, in what I think Chadwick Haluska Mowery Taylor, E. Z. was an inappropriate move, repealed our prohibition, which Civera Harper Mrkonic Taylor, F. Clark, B. D. Hasay Murphy Telck had been in the Pennsylvania Crimes Code for some years, Clark. D. F. Hayden Nahill Thomas against the ownership of fully automatic weapons. It used to Clark, I. H. Hayes Nailar Tigue be against the law to have fully automatic weapons in Penn- Clymer Heckler Noye Trello Cohen Herman O'Donnell Van Horne sylvania, and unfortunately, arising out of a prosecution of Calafella Hershey Olasr Vean yome motorcycle gang members in Delaware County who had Colaiuo Hess Oliver Vroon fully automatic weapons, the NRA and others persuaded us Cole Howlett Pesci Wambach Cornell Hughes Petrarca Williams that if you had a Federal stamp, you should be able to have a Corrigan Jackson Petrane Wilson fully automatic weapon, and that is the status of the law right Cowell Jadlowiec Phillips Wozniak now in Pennsylvania. COY James Piccola Wright. J. L. DeLuca Johnson Pievsky Wright, R. C. Now, I happen to personally think that is wrongheaded and DeWeese Josephr Pislella Yandrisevitr wrong, and 1 would like to see us stand up and deal with that Daley Kasunic Pittr specific question. Unfortunately, this amendment bites off Davies Kosinski Pressman" Manderino, Dempsey Kukovich Preston Speaker more than, again, in my opinion, we should he chewing in an Dietterick attempt to get at some of the tools that drug dealers may use. NOT VOTING-3 Now, I do not doubt that many drug dealers are going to Taylor. I. Weston take an UZI or an AK-47, have a gunsmith retrofit the parts EXCUSED-2 that would adapt it to fully automatic fire, and have that \seapon and be ready to use it against law enforcement offi- Micorrie Scrimenti cers or others. It is somewhat less likely but certainly possible that people who are insane or otherwise willing to kill inno- 1650 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16, cent people for no good reason will use such weapons either in happens with these weapons once they are relinquished. Is their fully automatic or semiautomatic capacity, although I there any reason why you do not have it? would point out that the most tragic example we have had of Mr. MICHLOVIC. Mr. Speaker, I would expect that once that situation in Pennsylvania, the mall shooting, also I they are relinquished, they go to the appropriate police believe in Delaware County, involved a .22 rimfire automatic department, and I think the police would, in all due haste, weapon, a weapon of which there are hundreds of thousands either dismantle or somehow get rid of the weapons. in this State. Representative Hess and I saw at least 15 of them Mr. LETTERMAN. Well, Mr. Speaker, when police knocked down at an auction here to gain funds for the Com- departments confiscate drugs, is there any provision in the monwealth the other night. And they are not prohibited under drug laws to tell them what they should do with the drugs? this bill. Mr. MICHLOVIC. In most cases, if I am correct on this, So the tragic fact is if you have a crazy person who wants to they keep the drugs for evidence for court, and then after- hurt and kill people in a shopping center or a playground or wards it is destroyed. whatever, they do just about as well with the kind of rifle that Mr. LETTERMAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. we might hunt deer with or any of a number of other weapons 1 would like to make some comments, please. that are abundantly available in this Commonwealth. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and So what are we about? Or what should we be about in may proceed. dealing with these weapons? Certainly giving law enforcement Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, I have read through this an extra tool to say, okay, pal, we caught you with this amendment, and in reading through it, I have found about 15 weapon; obviously, you intend to use it criminally, and you errors. I do not want to stand here and point out each and are going to get some extra time on top of whatever we are every one of these errors, but 1 think the amendment was arresting you for. If we were talking about fully automatic drawn up very fast and without much consideration for what weapons, I would suggest that that would be appropriate. I it really entails. I do not believe that this amendment is going know that some of those who are opposing this amendment to do what these people want it to do in the first place. It is would disagree with me on that score. I would suggest, that is never going to stop the man that wants to he illegal from being an appropriate place to draw the line. illegal. He is definitely going out there, and he is going to get Regretfully, 1 am going to vote against this amendment these weapons and he is going to use them. because I think it takes in too much territory. Thank you. The thing that bothers me most of all is we continually talk The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- about registration of firearms, and I disagree with that 100 man. percent. 1 think that we have an amendment here that was drawn in haste, that if anything, it should be put back into a WELCOME committee. The amendment should be corrected, and we should have hearings on an amendment of this sort. I know The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would like to pause that because someone goes into a schoolyard and uses one of in our deliberations to welcome Dennis DeMara, director of these guns- And I disagree with the use of these guns. I do parks and recreation from Mauch Chunk Lake; Joe Seblin, not own one. I would not even buy one. 1 have no need for director of the JTPA (Job Training Partnership Act) one. But then I try to be legal most of the time, and notice I program; Ed Ronemus; Rick Johnson; Mark Leffler; and said, "most of the time." I do not think that whatever you do Margaret Koruck, all of Mauch Chunk Lake, who were here is going to stop these people from using this weapon. honored today for having the Nation's best Conservation Corps project. They are today the guests of Representative MOTION TO TABLE McCall, and they are located in the balcony. Would you please stand. Mr. LETTERMAN. I therefore would ask that the amend- ment along with the bill be recommitted- We cannot do that. CONSIDERATION OF HB 176 CONTINUED I think it should be tabled then until the corrections are made in the amendment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question now recurs, wiO The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Centre the House agree to the Michlovic amendment? On that ques- moves that the House now table the bill with the amendment. tion, the Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Centre, This particular motion is not debatable except by the leader- Mr. Letterman. ' ship. Mr. LETTERMAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker? I would like to interrogate the maker of the amendment, The SPEAKER pro tempore. Mr. Letterman, for what please. purpose do you rise? The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman, Mr. Mr. LETTERMAN. Just for one example to point out to Michlovic, consents to being interrogated. The gentleman you- from Centre may proceed. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The issue is not debatable. Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, on page 5, under "Relin- The motion has been placed before the Houre. quishment of weapons," you have no provision of what 1989 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 1651

MOTION WITHDRAWN Mr. MICHLOVIC. We cannot prohibit him from interstate Mr. LETTERMAN. I withdraw then. sales. If a person wishes to sell the weapon to somebody out The SPEAKER pro tempore, Okay, The gentleman from of State, they could sell it in another State where that weapon Centre withdraws the motion to table. may be legal under that State's law. ~h~ question before the H~~~~ is the of the , Mr. LETTERMAN. 1s there any other State where it is Michlovic amendment. On that question, the Chair recognizes ''legal? the gentleman from Centre. Mr. Letterman. Mr. MICHLOVIC. California. Mr. LETTERMAN. Mr. Speaker, just to give you an Mr. LETTERMAN. That is the only one? example of some of the errors that we found in just reading Mr. MICHLOVIC. As far as I know, under this law. In over this very rapidly. If anyone can explain to me on page 4 fact, this amendment is based upon the California legislation. what it means under section (a), under "General rule," if Mr. LETTERMAN. Yes, that is scary. Right. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Has the gentleman from anyone can explain to me what that means, I would sure like to have someone do that. I have read it about five times, and I concluded his interrogation? am not very smart, but 1 sure as heck cannot understand this Mr. LETTERMAN. Yes, Mr. Speaker. I would like to either. make a statement. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The maker of the amend- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and ment, Mr. Michlovic, agrees to be interrogated. The Chair may proceed. recognizes Mr. Michlovic to answer the gentleman's question. Mr. LETTERMAN. You know, Mr. Speaker, it appears Mr. MICHLOVIC. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. that every time we have a little problem with firearms in Penn- A number of the members have come up to me on that lan- sylvania, someone wants to ban this or ban that. I used to guage on page 4, under -~~~~~~lrule.9p~h~~~ should be a think the NRA was not correct when they used to say, well, "to," 1-0, after the word "prior" and before the number this is just another type of gun registration. I looked at it in -90." ~l~~ on page 5, [here was a letter ,,,issing in [he middle many, many ways, and today 1 am doing the same thing, and I believe today that the NRA is probably more right than they of the page where " ...a person who has been issued a permit...," instead of "as been.- ~h~~~ are obvious technical ever were. Really, You are not going to do a thing to keep the mistakes. We have already talked to the ~~f~~~~~~ B~~~~~,illegal people, the people who want to be illegal, from using ~h~~ have indicated that if 1 [he rewritten copy with these weapons. ,411 YOU are going to do is say to some gun that language to the amendment clerk after the vote if it dealer that has collected these firearms that you have to take should pass, then those corrections will be made, and 1 fully them in and turn Your guns in, turn them in. There is no pro- intend to do so. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. vision for you to be paid for these weapons or anything else, if The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair now returns to the are a gun collector. gentleman from Centre, Mr. Letterman. I think that is absolutely wrong. I think that if you are M~,L~TTERMAN, Mr. Speaker, may I interrogate the going to insist that I turn something over that I have bought, maker of the amendment again, please? then you should make some kind of provision for me to be The SPEAKER pro The gentleman consents to be reimbursed. It almost sounds like we are living in one of these interrogated, and the gentleman from Centre may proceed. historical districts in a community, and I buy a house and they LETTERMAN, On page 4, section (b), sales, tell me what I am allowed to do with it. I would like to tell you transfers,...-No assault weapon possessed pursuant to this what would like tellthem lo do with themselves. section may be sold or transferred on or after 90 days follow. But 1 will tell YOU, it is time that we quit trying to ban and ing the effective date of this subchapter, to anyone within this register firearms. That is not the answer, and 1 think I pointed Commonwealth other than to a licensed gun dealer, as Out tO YOU two occasions here. One of them was when you tell defined herein.- N~~,can you explain to me what he is going me I have to take my firearm to a sheriff's department but to do with the guns? If he is allowed to purchase them, what is YOU do not make any provisions for what that sheriff's he going to do with them? department has to do. Do you realize who works in those Mr. MICHLOVIC. Sell them, Mr. Speaker. sheriffs' departments? They are people who love guns, just Mr. LETTERMAN. To whom? Contras? like you and I, and there is nothing there that says- You Mr. MICHLOVIC. H~ has a ~~d~~~lfirearms license which know, 1 imagine a lot of dope is missing out of those places, allows him to sell and we override that and I imagine there is going to be a lot of firearms if we do not Federal provision, but we can limit his involvement by [he cri. have a definite provision for what should happen to them. teria listed. I think that this amendment not only is wrong in what it Mr. LETTERMAN, In other words, you are saying he suggests that we do but it is wrong in the way it is drawn, and I would have to sell them to someone out of the State? would ask for a negative vote. Mr. MICHI.OVIC. Wecannot prohibit him from interstate The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair thanks the gentle- sales. man. Mr. LETTERMAN. What did you just say? You cannot prohibit what? 1652 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

WELCOME I The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman from Alle- gheny, Mr. Michlovic, consents to being interrogated. The The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair would like the gentleman from Bucks may proceed. House to pause in its deliberations to welcome the Unem- Mr. CLYMER. Thank you. ployed Committee of Beaver County, who assist the unem- Mr. Speaker, I may have missed it in the conversation, but ployed of that particular area. They are the guests today of could you tell me whether or not any law enforcement agen- the Representatives from Beaver County, and the gentlemen cies, both State or national, have taken a position on the of the committee are located in the balcony. Will they stand, assault weapons issue? please. Mr. MICHLOVIC. Yes, Mr. Speaker. The Chiefs of Police Association, both at the national level and at the State level, is CONSIDERATION OF HB 176 CONTINUED supportive of the amendment. Mr. CLYMER. That is the end of my interrogation. Just a The SPEAKER pro tempore. The question before the comment. House is whether the House will agree to the Michlovic The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and amendment to HB 176. On the question. the Chair now recog- may proceed. nizes thegentleman from Allegheny, Mr. Olasz. Mr. CLYMER. Mr. Speaker, I share somewhat the com- Mr. OLASZ. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. ments of Representative Olasz, who had made the comment I submit that in many of the things that we do in this that you are always going to have people who are going to House, no matter how wcll intentioned, we get caught up in secure these weapons and use them unlawfully. I just want to the hysteria of the moment, and I submit that this amendment add to it by saying that until we can control some violence on is another example of hysteria. Get out in the street and find the television and from Hollywood, those are the kinds of out what is going on. I am willing to bet you that 80 percent of violent actions that people who are unbalanced, when they see you people in here do not know how to manufacture a zip those kinds of things, 'think they have to portray, and they gun, but that criminal element knows how to make a zip gun. portray themselves in an image of that character who uses an Prohibition did not stop the flow of illegal booze. All that it assault weapon and does a lot of harm to our society. I think did was make multimillionaires in this country. If you try to until there is some control there or some responsibility by pro- restrict the sale of these guns, you have a market out there, ducers, we are still going to have this problem not only in and if you want to come to grips with reality, go out in the Pennsylvania but in our Nation. street and ask: Do you want to rent a gun for an hour? Do you That is the end of my remarks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. want to rent it for a day? What do you want - a grenade launcher? Do you want a bazooka? Ask your friends in the On the question recurring, DEA. Tell them to go down to the swamps in Florida and find Will the House agree to the amendments? out where those Chinook helicopters came from. There is a The following roll call was recorded: market, and if the price is right, they will get it for you. But Y EAS-61 everything we do is geared to the law-abiding citizen. We think they are like average Joe Blow and your next-door Adolph Cowell Levdansky Riller Ballisla Donarucci Linton Robinson neighbor. Belardi Evans McHale Rocbuek The cold, hard facts out in the street are, you are dealing Bishop Freeman McNally Saurman with vicious slime, and where there is a will, there is a relative, Blaum Gamble McVerry Thomas and I guarantee you that if they want that weapon, they are Bortner Hagarty Maiale Tigue Braujos Harper Melio Trello going to get that weapon. It is just a matter of time until in Burns Hayden Miehlavic Van Horne this country you are going to see the introduction of plastic Caltagirone Hershey Nahill Vroan explosives. How are you going to deal with it? They are out Cappabianca Howlell Oliver Wambach Carn Hughes Pelrane Williams there. If you got the money, they are there, and if this drug Cawley ltkin Pislella Wright. J. L. war escalates, you are going to see a lot of them. Clark, J. H. James Pilrs Cohen Jorephs Preston Manderino, Come back to my original statement: How many of you Colafella Kaiser Reinard Speaker know how to make a zip gun? I will guarantee you, 80 to 90 Corrigan Kukovich Rieger percent of the people in this place do not know how to make a NAYS-137 zip gun, but they are in prisons and they are everywhere. ACOSta Dorr Langtry Robbins These guns are everywhere, and all you are going to do is Allen Durham Lashinger Rudy disarm the decent, law-abiding citizen. Angstadl Fairch~ld Laughlin Ryan I urge you to vote "no" on the Michlovic amendment. Argall Fargo Lee Rybak Barley Farmer Leh Saloom The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen- Belfaoti Fee Leseovitz Scheetr tleman from Bucks, Mr. Clymer. Billow Fleagle Letterman Schuler Mr. CLYMER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Birmelin Flick Lloyd Semmel Black Foster Lucyk Serafini I wonder if I can interrogate the maker of the amendment Bowley Fox McCall Smilh. B. for one question. Boyes Freind Maine Smith. S. H. Brandl Gallen Markosek Snyder. D. W LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

Bunt Cannon Marsico Snydcr. G. Bowley Gallen Maialr Smith. S. H. Burd Ceist Mayernik Staback Boyes Gamble Mainc Snyder, D. W. Bush George Merry Srairs Bnndl Ganoon hlarkosek Snyder. ti. Carlson Cladeck Miller Steighner Rroujos Cieisl Marsica Staback Cessar Gadshall Moehlmann Slish Bun1 George Mayernik Stairs Chadwick Gruitza Morris Slrittmatler Hurd Gigliotli Mclio Steighncr Civera Cr~ppo Mowery Stuhan Burns Gladcck Mcrry Stish Clark, B. D. Haluska Mrkonic Tangretti Rush (iodshall Michlovi~. Strinmatlcr Clark, D. F. Haaay Nailor Taylor. E. Z. Caltagirone Gruitla Miller Stuban Clvmer Haycs Noye Taylor, F. Cappabianca Gruppo Moehlmann Tangretti Colairza Heckler O'Brien Taylor. J. Carlion Hagarty Morris Taylor. E. Z. Cole Herman O'Donnell Telek Carn Haluska Mowery Taylor, F. Cornell Hess Olasz Trich Cawley Harper Mrkonic Taylor. J COY Jackson Perzel Veon Cessar Hasay Murphy Trlek DeLuca Jadlowiec Pesci Wars Chadwick Hayden Nahill Thomas DeWeese Jarolin Petrarca Weston Clvcra Haye< Nailor Tigue Daley Johnson Phillips Wilson Clark. 6. D. Heckler Noye Trello Davics Kasunic Piccola Wogan Clark. D. F. Herman O'Brien Trich Dcmpsey Kenney Pieusky Wozniak Clark, J. H. Hershcy O'Donncll Van Horne Dieuerick Kandrich Pressmann Wright. 11. R. Clymer Hew Olar,. Veon Dininni Kosinski Raymond Wright. R. C. Cohen Howlell Oliver Vroon Distler LaCrotta Reber Yandrisevits Colafella llughes Per7.cl Wambach Dombrowski Calai~.~.~ ltkin l'esci Wass NOT VOTING-3 Cole .lackhon Petrarca Weslon

Cornell Jadlowiec~ ~ Pctrone Williams Murphy Richardson Corri~atl Jamcr I'hillipr Wilson Cowell .larolin Piccola Wogan EXCUSED-2 Coy Johnson Pievsky Wo,.nisk Del.uca Jorephr Pistella Wright, D. R. Scrimenti DcWeere Kairer Pill5 Wright. J. L. The question was determined in the negative, and the Daley Kasunic Pressmann Wright, K. C. Davie5 Kenney Preslon Yandrisevils amendments were not agreed to. Dcmpsey Kondrich Raymond On thequestion recurring, Dietterick Kosinski Reber Manderino. Dininni Kukovich Reioard Speaker Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration? Distlcr LaGrotla Kiegrr Bill was agreed to. NAYS-0 The SPEAKER pro tempore. This bill has been considered NOT VOTING-I on three different days and agreed to and is now on final passage. Richardson The question is, shall the bill pass finally? EXCUSED-I Micorric LEAVE OF ABSENCE CANCELED The majority required by the Conslitution having voted in the affirmative, the question was delermined in the affirma- The SPEAKER pro tempore. The clerk will be advised lo tiveand the bill passed finally. add Mr. Scrimenti to the master roll. Ordered, That the clerk present the same lo the Senate for concurrence. CONSIDERATION OF HB 176 CONTINUED

On the question recurring, DEMOCRATIC CAUCUS Shall the hill pass finally? The SPEAKER pro rempore. The Chair wishes lo advise The SPEAKER pro tempore. Agreeable to the provisions the Democratic members that there will be a caucus immedi- of the Constitution, the yeas and nays will now be taken. ately following the session in the majority caucus room. YEAS-201

Aeosta Dombrowski Langtry Ritlcr REPUBLICAN CAUCUS Adolph Donatuuci Larhinger Robbin, Allen Dorr Laughlin Robinwn The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen- Angstadt Durham 1.e~ Roebuck tleman from Perry, Mr. Noye, who also informs the House Argall Evans Leh Rudy Barley Fairchild Lcscovit, Ryan that the Republicans will be having a caucus following the Ballisto Fargo Letterman Rybak deliberations of the House. Bclardi Farmcr I.evdansky Saloom Bclfanti Fee Linton Saurrnan Billow Flcaglc Lloyd Scheet, ADJOURNMENT Birmelin f'lick Lucyk Schuler Bishop Faster McCall Scrimenti The SPEAKER pro lempore. The Chair now recognizes the Black Fox McHale Scmn~el Blaum Freeman McNally Scrafini gentleman from Delaware, Mr. Adolph. Borlner Freind McVtrry Smith. H. 1654 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE OCTOBER 16,

Mr. ADOLPH. Mr. Speaker, 1 move that this House do now adjourn until Tuesday, October 17, 1989, at 11 a.m., 1 e.d.t., unless sooner recalled by the Speaker. I On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to, and at 2:43 p.m., e.d.t., the House adjourned.