SAINT GENET PARADISIACAL RITES

THU - SUN | MAY 16 - 19, 2013 ON THE BOARDS

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Credits...... 2 Curator’s Note...... 3 Saint Genet Mission...... 4 Synopsis...... 5 Beginner’s Guide...... 6 A brief introduction to Saint Genet Essay...... 7 Saint Genet and Artaud’s Theater of Cruelty Interview...... 9 Sara Edwards with Ryan Mitchell

photos by Dan Hawkins CREDITS Associated Artists: Jeffry Mitchell, Casey Curran, Anna Telcs Director / Author: Derrick Ryan Claude Mitchell Performers: Thomas Vincent Chapel,Darren Dewse, Associate Director: Lily Nguyen Matt Drews, Garek Jon Druss, Sara Edwards, Managing Director: Sara Edwards James Kent, Brian Lawlor, Carl Lawrence, Art Direction / Design: NKO Derrick Ryan Claude Mitchell, Lily Nguyen, Set Design / Sculpture: Casey Curran NKO, Kate Ryan, Salo, Jessie Smith, Communications: Kate Ryan Alan Sutherland, Calie Swedberg Dramaturgy: Mallery Avidon, Melissa Henry Assistant to Mr. Mitchell: Carl Lawrence Choreography: Jessie Smith Paradisiacal Rites was co-commissioned by donaufestival (Krems, Austria) Assistant Choreography: James Kent and Luminato (Toronto Festival of Arts and Creativity). Developed in residency at Mighty Tieton. Composers/Musicians: Brian Lawlor, Salo, Garek Jon Druss Thanks to sponsors and partners On the Boards, Publicide, Youngstown, New Mystics, Luxe Riot, Northwest Film Forum and Trench Art Records. Guest Musician: Judith Reiter Sound Operation: Lily Nguyen Sound Consultant: Paurl Walsh Seasonal support for OtB is provided by Photography: Dan Hawkins Video Projections: Juniper Shuey Filmmaker: Wes Hurley Technical Direction: John DeShazo This production is sponsored by Costume Designer: Robinick Fernandez Associate Designer: Anna Conn The Andrew W. Technical Designers: Nora Franklin, Elfy Essex, Mellon Foundation Ande Williams Design Consultants: Nate French, Jordan Christianson CURATOR’S NOTE

I first got to know Ryan Mitchell over dinner a year or so ago, On the which is funny in retrospect because I remember him saying that eating is undignified as he looked over the menu.

We spent a long time talking about getting in shape and Yukio Mishima’s Sun and Steel and how the two of us should meet regularly to do pushups, pull-ups and squat thrusts on the concrete of city sidewalks. Even though we never ended up performing a single calisthenic together, that little exchange encapsulates Saint Genet’s approach to making art for me: all the physical exertion and working oneself into states of fatigue and pain; going to extremes – whether the denial of basic necessities or indulging in excess – both in the name of some kind of transcendence; and even the idea of being in public and inviting a community to grapple with this merry band of performance artists.

Despite all of this apparent intensity, Saint Genet is essentially a group of gentle souls. Somewhere I read something about them invoking the word “family” to describe the group, which makes sense: if you’re going to do some of the stuff they do to and in front of one another then you might as well get comfortable as a unit. It might even be necessary.

It will be exciting to see how work that is typically seen as one-offs in nontraditional spaces – warehouses and galleries and museums – unfolds over four nights and gets reframed by a professional theater space. This engagement will require tons of stamina and this plays right into their hands. They welcome taking as much time as necessary to achieve their own brand of crystalline imagery and intense incantations.

Lane Czaplinski Mission, Our audience meets the great apostle of singularity; Mandates, Pains, he holds a sword, not a mirror, to the throat. As the room slowly fills and silently we drown. and Providence Me, you, all of us our hearts pounding, we know that no one has the right to forgive, no one has the right to forgive, Being nothing, Saint Genet possess nothing, and tomorrow dawn will break, no one has the right to forgive, while we secretly pursue the imminent possession tomorrow dawn will break, and nothing is beautiful of everything. Doubtless, there are sorrows here; save that which is not. manifesting landscapes that are both banal and beautiful. Doubtless, there are wounds here; unique and different hidden these wounds are always hidden. We must believe that. They are our solitude and our most certain glory. Must we not? They are me you all of us. Doubtless, there is blood here. With blood and a puddle of gold we mourn the marriage of our invisible and anonymous patriarch, to our disowned and silent matriarch. Each nearly, nearly invisible. This is essential.

Preferring nothingness to being, tension to enjoyment, substance and will, soul and consciousness, magic and freedom, concept and judgment collide, gnash, beat upon, and scream out again and again until misery has twisted itself into ecstasy revealing our coded and cursed black history. We revel here, serving no one; and if our oft’ feeble hands have hinted at poetry it is the poetry that unites us whether we are swine or not. KNEE I ACT II It is important not to imagine yourself as one My Tender Antigone or anotherprotagonist; or with one or another event Part ONE that has to do with your life. from Cain Jean Genet to Aesthete paraphrased The Break It isn’t a break; ACT I it is a drowning Part TWO cute little bastards hewn with tears Tutelary Goddesses: “There is no other source of beauty than the wound - unique, Madness & Death different for each person, hidden or visible, that every man keeps within, that hepreserves and whither he withdraws when he wants KNEE III to leave the world behind for a temporary but deep solitude” It is important that the Jean Genet audience encounter himself, the studio of Alberto Giacometti 1957 not the ups and downs of action. KNEE II Jean Genet misery has shaped itself like paraphrased ecstasy inside a twisted body done. to. death, but not yet dead... just left on the floor, or behind a shed, in a ditch...whatever... waiting for a shroud, or a veil, or decay to wash the face away... ACT III away... away... The Dead beautiful and silent and alone. To change any of this here there is gonna be blood up -drcm to the horses bridle in the streets. a piece of text cut Horses will have to bath up up up to their necks in blood. & forgotten but be not to be afeared. No no no it is not to be feared. It is a friend...drowning...drown little friend. C. Manson J. Jones -drcm in homage to Jean Genet 3. Saint Genet is a reconfiguration of the Stranger Genius Award BEGINNER’S GUIDE TO winning Implied Violence after co-founder Mandie O’Connell left the group in 2010. Implied Violence insisted that, “theater can be as SAINT GENET dangerous/infuriating/unpredictable as life and that theater can happen everywhere that life happens.” To this charge, they gave their 1. Saint Genet keeps it mysterious. Example: a quote by Saint Genet very visceral and surreal performances in a bouquet of venues, commenting on their upcoming performances for The Stranger’s 2012 including but not limited to fields, abandoned buildings, a soon to Summer AP guide reads, be demolished hotel on Aurora, on rooftops, and in alleyways. “On June 17, Saint Genet will ride to victory or death. On June 17, Saint Genet may or may not stage a performance for no audience. 4. Helping Saint Genet in their production are several hugely talented The company may or may not live in an apple-storage warehouse. Seattle-based collaborators. To name a few: fashion designer The apple-storage warehouse may or may not be planted with a wheat Robinick Fernandez, visual artist NKO (have you seen this mural?), field.” There was also talk of a trench, a mountain, a gaucho, nitrous choreographer Jessie Smith (Dead Bird Movement, also see her dance oxide, local dancer Alan Sutherland walking into the mountain, it in Gloria’s Cause by Dayna Hanson at OtB in 2010), kinetic sculptor collapsing, and a funeral “that lasts till dawn.” Casey Curran, musicians Garek Jon Druss & Brian Lawlor and Salo, and a bunch more. Check out Saint Genet’s website to view the full list So if I was going to read this quote as a metaphor for how it feels to of the artists involved. research Saint Genet and/or how it will feel to view them as an audience I would say: on the one hand, this quote made a lasting impression on 5. Saint Genet may have taken the intentions of Implied Violence me (probably because it caused me to simultaneously scoff and fall a and turned down a slightly more maniacal road. Leading up to little in love) . . . but it is also vague in a way that allows the reader no Paradisiacal Rites, the group hosted a series of performances called satisfaction in knowing what is going on, or when or why or for whom— Transports of Delirium which consisted of four installations performed but I’ll be darned if it doesn’t sound enigmatic and magical. Here is a over four weekends in an abandoned warehouse on Airport Way. ‘beginner’s guide’ to Saint Genet, which I feel has, necessarily, been a Transports was loosely based around the Jonestown Massacre, bit of a Sherlock Holmes series of deductions. the Manson trials, and the Oscars. The performances were viewed by invitation only, the structure of the audience was loose, and the 2. Saint Genet is named after the book Saint Genet, written about performance took hours. Many whip-its were done, many medicinal infamous writer Jean Genet by Jean-Paul Sartre in 1952. Part myth, leeches were applied to Ryan Mitchell, and much gold leaf was applied part truth, and part philosophy--the book is an exhaustive biography to various bodies. derived from the life and persona of Jean Genet. Genet was the orphaned son of a prostitute, turned thief and prostitute, turned writer To close, in a possible intimation of what is to come, I leave you with and playwright, and is known for his subversive and explicit novels and a quote from Antonin Artaud from his essay The Theater and Cruelty his absurdist plays. Genet’s writing was fostered through a relationship (one of Saint Genet’s listed influences) where he proclaims, “I propose with Jean Cocteau and he turned to writing plays after Sartre published a theater in which violent physical images crush and hypnotize the Saint Genet. According to Genet, “Sartre’s book created a void that sensibility of the spectator seized by the theater as by a whirlwind of allowed a sort of psychological deterioration to set in. This deterioration higher forces.” allowed for the meditation that led to my plays.” When asked what parts of Genet’s work he connects to his own by Interview Magazine, Ryan Mitchell responded, “Everything that has to do with hate, and lying, and stealing, and gambling, and getting fucked over. So there is that...” ESSAY pour out, on a level not counterfeit and illusory, but interior.” Saint Genet and Artaud’s Theater of Cruelty With the intention of the theater redefined, he lays out a definition of by Heidi Biggs, OtB Outreach Intern the Theater of Cruelty and his essay Metaphysics and the Mise en Scene—the theory and method of his theatrical productions. Saint Genet I think with a group like Saint Genet, it’s going to be important to have seems to have similar methods. I read a quote, (Google translated from some critically founded reasons consider them and tools with which to German, so this is an approximation) about Saint Genet, just a little quip, distance ourselves or . . . complicate the reactions we have, kind of like that says, “actors, ballet dancers, choreographers, musicians, visual a softening of an impact—for which there is a definite potential when artists and filmmakers employ all their skills in a solemn and somber viewing a sensational and visceral group such as Saint Genet. Maybe performance, and intoxicating exhibition to serve our existential analysis is thwarting the guttural reactions they intend an audience to pain.”This touches on two of the important connections Saint Genet have, but I think the greatest compliment to an artist is to be able to look shares with Artaud: how their theater is the expression of existential at a work and attempt to understand it intellectually as well as intuitively. pain (danger/cruelty in the terminology of Artaud) and then how it is So this is my hope: that this essay explains the roots and intentions of expressed—through the full range possible by theater, a theatrical the work of Saint Genet, and also reflects on some reasons why this work poetics, the resulting sensation of combined movement, light, sound, might be important and actually very beautiful by exposing us (the dance, intonation, etc. Artaud defines the Theater of Cruelty in the audience) to controversial but provocative aesthetics. essay No More Masterpieces thusly:

There are many interesting entry points into Saint Genet (Theater of “As soon as I have said “cruelty” everybody will at once take it to mean the Absurd, Jean Genet, Georges Bataille, etc.) but for the sake of “blood.” But ‘Theater of cruelty’ means a theater difficult and cruel for brevity and simplicity, I’m going to focus on the writings of Antonin myself first of all. And, on the level of performance, it is not the cruelty Artaud and how they relate to Paradisiacal Rites. Artaud is concerned we can exercise upon each other by hacking at each other’s bodies, with reconfiguring the way the audience is affected by theater. He carving up our personal anatomies . . . but the much more terrible and rejected the theater of his contemporaries, finding it impotent, necessary cruelty which things can exercise against us. We are not free. castrated— lacking its full potential. He rages about it, claiming if And the sky can still fall on our heads. And the theater has been created people have come to think of theater as an inferior art it’s because, to teach us that first of all.” “we have learned too well what theater has been, namely, falsehood and illusion . . . a purely descriptive and narrative theater—storytelling There are plenty of other quotes about violence and the theater of psychology . . . the public is no longer shown anything but the mirror cruelty (like, “I propose a theater in which violent physical images crush of itself.” Instead of this safe, passive, reflection of reality—performances and hypnotize the sensibility of the spectator seized by the theater as by that leave the audience unscathed—he sought to return theater to its a whirlwind of higher forces.”) but this quote seems to reflect a slightly full capacity to affect and awaken an audience. He says in The Theater gentler, or heavier (suffocation by a slow falling sky, maybe), view of the of Cruelty (First Manifesto), theater of cruelty as a theater designed to mourn and recognize the cruelty of simply existing. This reminds me of some of the ways Ryan “The theater will never find itself again—i.e. constitute a means of true Mitchell talks about his work, saying the idea of there being ‘no illusion—except by furnishing the spectator with the truthful precipitates salvation’ having importance in work and his life, as well as trying to of dreams, in which his taste for crime, his erotic obsession, his savagery, express a ceremony where the beauty of the ceremony is appreciable his chimeras, his utopian sense of life and matter, even his cannibalism, even if the things happening are upsetting. In interviews, Mitchell also are going to shake you to your core, I think this piece, roughly modeled listed his best performances as the ones which were really uncomfortable after Artaudian Cruelty, is out to light up your intuitive imaginations— for him—this sort of blurring of pain and success, which along with the fears and dreams alike. beauty of the ceremony, acknowledges a universal experience of life that is exquisite on the one hand and traumatic on the other.

As talked about above, Artaud isn’t interested in reflecting the complexities of life as some sort of psychoanalytical drama that reflects reality, he wants to generate and affecting theater halfway between dream and reality. Artaud therefore creates a theory of the metaphysics of the mise en scene--mise en scene meaning the gestalt effect of all the things on stage acting upon an audience—how they mean all-together. He wants to make a language that is specifically for theater, including a new way of performing (a hybrid of language and movement), the elements on the stage, how we see them, and then how those things are read toghether syntactically. “It consists of everything that occupies the stage, everything that can be manifested and expressed materially on a stage and that is addressed first of all to the senses instead of being addressed primarily to the mind as is the language of words.”

Similarly, Saint Genet has mentioned that their work could be defined as Gesamtkunstwerk, (meaning the connecting of several media, such as music, dance, visual art, gesture, lighting, voices). This upcoming piece is bursting with collaborators from all different art forms working to create a multi-disciplinary whole. One of the things Artaud talks about in the very beginning of the essay, Metaphysics and the Mise en Scene, is how a particular painting—through the combination of the imagery and color and elements and subject matter—evokes deep seated metaphysical concepts. I cannot help but think of the powerful images generated by Saint Genet. Looking at the pictures of their works, they are creating objects, scenes, scenarios from our nightmares, our dreams, our fantasies, as well as this sort of looming American motif found in a wheat field with birds hanging above it; the images, the totality, that are born of some sort of collective subconscious—a strange environment we have never been before but all understand.

If you are coming to Paradisiacal Rites come prepared for some images that INTERVIEW SE: Double Dutch or push ups? with Sara Edwards and Ryan Mitchell RM: Double Dutch. SE: Rocky or RZA? SE: Hi Ryan. RM: RZA. RM: Hi Sara. SE: Ok. Alright, so I also have a bunch of non-softball questions, but I think SE: Um - ok, so I’m going to throw you some softball questions. you are going to be qualified to answer them. RM: That’s what I requested so . . . RM: Ok. SE: So I have a series of words, maybe like two words or concepts and you SE: They come in different categories, so I have one that’s American-ness, just choose the one that you prefer. one that’s about trust and danger, one that’s about scale of work, one that’s RM: Alright. about love and hate, and one that’s about “theater question mark.” Which one would you prefer to talk about? SE: Chess or hot dice? RM: Why don’t we talk about love and hate. RM: Chess. SE: Ok, so a couple months ago I saw this Castellucci show in Montclair. SE: Gold leaf or gold teeth? And in the Q&A this woman got really angry at Castellucci because he presented this image of children throwing stones at the picture of Christ, RM: Gold leaf. like the face of Christ. And she was like, “This show is all about hate! SE: Ether or whippits? It’s all about hate, clearly you are teaching children to throw stones and hate Christ.” And he was like, “I think that’s, respectfully, I think the show is about RM: Whippits. love, and the act of throwing stones at the face of Christ is an act of love SE: Death Grips or Wu Tang? because it’s actually a call for love, a call to the Christ figure of like, why have you forsaken me?” . . . Or whatever. So in your work, in Saint Genet’s work, RM: Wu Tang? I’ve been struck often by how you have really dangerous or thought-provoking and like uncomfortable imagery and I’m wondering how love factors into SE: Companion your bunny friend or Weebay your cat friend? your work. RM: Companion. RM: What I’m doing as an artist is highlighting the beauty of the ceremony SE: Bike messenger or carrier pigeon? even if the subject matter is very painful or dark. I think that often when I’m making an image that can be initially viewed as vile or volatile, it has many RM: Bike messenger. different layers to it and that the personal or often the larger idea of the SE: Jan Fabre or Romeo Castellucci? image is that in order to endure or transcend what’s happening on stage there actually is a lot of trust and love that’s happening, not only between the two RM: Castellucci. or four or six people that are interacting together, but also between the audience that has become witness to an act or action that has an emotional SE: Marina Abramovic or Christopher Burden? value and a value of beauty rather than simply narrative value. Which, I think RM: Christopher Burden. the simple, in the Castellucci example, the very simple understanding is throwing a rock at an icon or an idol is a hateful action or shooting someone different figures and something that really fascinates me about the Manson in the back is a hateful action, but in reality, all of the preparation and all of trails is actually narratively, factually, how little power he held. And, about the the understanding and the interrelated, almost, subconscious dialogue that’s media’s interpretation of this person who became kind of—and this is just my happened to create that is all manifest through love and ceremony. opinion—a victim of kind of, far left wing . . . like a right wing backlash and middle American backlash against really left wing hippy culture throughout SE: In a lot of the descriptions of the work, especially when Saint Genet the 60’s and the Tate/LaBianca murders being kind of a perfect cultural zeit- writes about its own work, some of the themes that you’ve evoked geist for a hysterical event. And then Jim Jones, similarly, is equally dramaturgically are Charles Manson murders and Jonestown massacre and fraudulent, but was actually manipulating all of The People’s Temple. some of these seminal events in American history and you’ve used the word Manson may or may not have been manipulating people, but the reality is hysteria a lot and I think distinctly you say American hysteria. And I’m he didn’t kill anyone—that’s just a straight fact—but he is his own worst wondering if you think that these types of actions or the conditions that allow enemy through his rhetoric. And Jim Jones was his own best friend through for these types of atrocities to occur, if you think that that is uniquely his rhetoric, but actually is responsible of all of these people in Guyana, American? over 900 people. But for me, what’s actually interesting is what is happening RM: I don’t know, but I know that I am an American, and I know that as surrounding these events. You know, I’m not I’m really interested in the build an American artist, I am more attuned to what I consider American hysteria. up to Jonestown Guyana, what I’m actually interested in is the human I also think that America – I mean obviously we’re this dying empire that’s interaction when Jim Jones becomes not important. When the dominoes are been the center of the world for, you know, at least since our independence already falling in the last 13 minutes and people are talking to each other and in 1776, and that we have a very specific type of hysteria because we have a it seems like time has expanded and they’re already. . . death is already a very volatile and violent country and often those points of American hysteria forgone conclusion, so they’re living in a place that is neither alive or dead. to me are really poetic because they have nothing to do with the truth of the I’m interested in the ideas of, that when Manson says that he’s always been moment, the actual narrative truth, but they become fact, they become in prison, and that when the trials were happening, the very obvious American historic fact, whether they are historically accurate or not, and miscarriages of our legal system were going on around him. But he’s already. we have a really . . . and I can’t speak from the perspective of someone . . it was already a forgone conclusion that he would be back in prison for the from France or from Spain. But I also think that we come from a very rest of his life. And everything else then becomes like time is expanded around puritanical background so the potential for hysteria is always really looming these people. from the surface rather than, in another culture that maybe expresses its SE: So then I get really curious about what tools you choose as an artist to emotions more freely, you know, we repress all of our emotions and in this use to explore these moments and themes, and you and I have had a lot of whirlwind of lie and truth and spectacle become part of the fabric of our conversation about performance art and theater and the direction of like culture . . . pretty consistently. theater in this country, in the world. And what is important to you as far as the SE: I’m intrigued by those two examples of the Charles Manson and the tools that you use to communicate about these things. Jonestown, that they both have a seminal figure, like a really dark figure who RM: Well, it’s interesting, and I think it’s specific and significant to each piece. holds a lot of power. I’ve been very curious in the work how you have chosen But the tools that I am finding myself, as I’m aging, as I become this old man to put yourself in that role of that figure, and I’m wondering what is that like are that I’m using a lot of the ideas of durational performance that creates emotionally for you to be in this like territory of examining these very dark an actual history of the work that is unique to each piece, prior to the piece people who hold a lot of power over a body of people which his not that that is maybe seen as a final product. Then utilizing—trying to investigate un-similar in a more benign way as a director with a company. and expand the grey areas of where the theater has maybe been described RM: So I think that that’s also similar to the Castellucci example, it’s one as traditionally stopping and performance or performance art as beginning of the first and easiest places to go. Charles Manson and Jim Jones are vastly and re-appropriating that within the theatrical vision and trying to control uncontrollable elements. Sometimes the elements take over the piece and then I have to exert my relationship with the piece itself . . . being able to participate in this work because like, I think that that relationship is really exert my better self onto the work in real time to let the piece move forward really clear. and continue and not just live in a weird underbelly of chaos or confusion. SE: Is Tom your first muse? SE: Can you give an example of something somebody might see, watching the work? RM: Tom probably . . .yeah, he’s probably my first muse just because I’ve grown up with him since I was four years old. I think Neal was one of my RM: I think a really easy example that people tap quite often are moments first muses too, another person I grew up with. Everyone is a muse kind of when, if there’s like an excessive amount of drinking or drug use that’s in a different way because I think that they all exemplify qualities that I don’t happening on stage, and that I myself have maybe lost quite a bit of blood really possess, like, you know Lily is just the best person in the world and Tom and have also been drinking and then really having enough elements that are is like, very kind and very, you know, masculine and tough, and Neil I think is set in motion that are happening around these other uncontrollable and really vulnerable, and. . . I mean, I can go through everyone. And you know, volatile elements that allows me to then recognize when the piece is ready you are very like, organized and giving and actually you and NKO both to move forward and then ask for it to move forward in real time. exemplify this really beautiful quality of true collaboration through both participation physically and intellectually and the ideas of intellectual SE: I think I have one more question: I want to know a little bit more about property between our collaborative team—and Casey is really a part of this your collaborators. I feel like I’ve witnessed that you have worked with some too—become grey, without a lot of ego possessing them. That is something of the same people for quite a while and it’s not like I’ve ever seen an open that is very very important for any type of collective body, is to be able to call for auditions for Saint Genet, or when you were doing Implied Violence, trust that you can, one, give an idea—it will be heard and maybe utilized, and for Implied Violence. It seems like you have a unique way of deciding which then the idea itself exists outside of your ownership. I mean, it rarely happens people to work with and then working with them and developing long term when you’re meeting people that you don’t know. So that’s . . . that’s awesome. collaborations. SE: I think we hit all my marks because we talked about love and hate, and RM: Yeah, and I mean, my collaborators are . . . it’s all very personal we talked a little bit about theater, and we talked about trust and American- relationships I have with them. I’m not . . . I’m a very generally social person ness, we only skipped scale but I feel like if people come to this show they will but when I’m making work I’m really private and I believe in the sanctity of see the scale which is like. . . ten thousand stalks of wheat and . . . the act or the sanctity of the artist. I think that these things should be really private and really personal because you are going to begin to explore all RM: Yeah, it’s actually eighteen thousand. facets of, you know, joy or sadness or failure or pain or madness. So, I try to maintain a really close collaborative team of people that I trust a lot and I SE: Eighteen thousand! would actually prefer to consistently work with people that I know and trust RM: I think scale is an interesting idea too--and I’m sure that we’re over even if their technical skills are maybe less impressive or something like that our time right now--but that in order to achieve some of the more atavistic because I think that the relationships are actually very apparent on stage and elements of the work that I think are inherently poetically affective to people, in the product. And each of my collaborative relationships, even if they’ve scale is elastic and sometimes it is focusing on the macrocosm in order to come to an end, have been really traumatic to me and affect every piece. really pinpoint the microcosm. And that I think is not any more clear than So yeah there will never be an audition or an open call. And then the other when Allen makes his first appearance, of things going from the largest that thing is it’s kind of a dichotomy because I end up just getting generally really they could possibly be to the most minute and in turn the most affecting. obsessed with people, like watching people that I don’t know, and I’ll pursue them in order to . . . almost like a muse to bring into the piece. But I’m able to SE: Yeah I don’t want to give away what that moment is; they are going to keep them at somewhat of an arms length and it actually is my collaborative have to see it. body that makes them feel secure enough or comfortable enough to RM: Yeah, don’t you dare give it away!