No. 116B No 116B ISSN 1180-2987 Legislative Assembly Assemblée législative of Ontario de l’Ontario First Session, 37th Parliament Première session, 37e législature Official Report Journal of Debates des débats (Hansard) (Hansard) Monday 11 December 2000 Lundi 11 décembre 2000 Speaker Président Honourable Gary Carr L’honorable Gary Carr Clerk Greffier Claude L. DesRosiers Claude L. DesRosiers Hansard on the Internet Le Journal des débats sur Internet Hansard and other documents of the Legislative Assembly L’adresse pour faire paraître sur votre ordinateur personnel can be on your personal computer within hours after each le Journal et d’autres documents de l’Assemblée législative sitting. 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Phone 416-326-5310, 326-5311 or toll-free téléphone : 416-326-5310, 326-5311, ou sans frais : 1-800-668-9938. 1-800-668-9938. Hansard Reporting and Interpretation Services Service du Journal des débats et d’interprétation 3330 Whitney Block, 99 Wellesley St W 3330 Édifice Whitney ; 99, rue Wellesley ouest Toronto ON M7A 1A2 Toronto ON M7A 1A2 Telephone 416-325-7400; fax 416-325-7430 Téléphone, 416-325-7400 ; télécopieur, 416-325-7430 Published by the Legislative Assembly of Ontario Publié par l’Assemblée législative de l’Ontario 6311 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY ASSEMBLÉE LÉGISLATIVE OF ONTARIO DE L’ONTARIO Monday 11 December 2000 Lundi 11 décembre 2000 The House met at 1845. bricks and mortar of programs such as social housing. In fact, municipalities have been paying for this program since 1998, and during that time the province has con- ORDERS OF THE DAY tinued to administer the social housing program on their behalf. This bill proposes to give municipalities the say to go along with the pay. What’s more, the Social Hous- SOCIAL HOUSING REFORM ACT, 2000 ing Reform Act would allow municipalities to integrate the administration of social housing with Ontario Works, LOI DE 2000 SUR LA RÉFORME child care and other social services which they deliver. DU LOGEMENT SOCIAL By integrating these services, municipalities would serve their clients more effectively and more efficiently. Mr Coburn, on behalf of Mr Clement, moved third reading of the following bill: I want to emphasize that the province has taken every Bill 128, An Act respecting social housing / Projet de precaution to make sure tenants are protected throughout loi 128, Loi concernant le logement social. the entire transfer and beyond. Provincial standards Mr David Caplan (Don Valley East): On a point of would ensure that service levels, eligibility and benefits order, Mr Speaker: Could you tell me if we have a would continue much the same as they are today. I spe- quorum present, please. cifically want to emphasize that rents geared to income The Acting Speaker (Mr Bert Johnson): No, I can’t, will continue to be set at 30% of income. All households but I’ll ask the table. in need would continue to be eligible to apply for social housing regardless of where they live in the province. Clerk Assistant (Ms Deborah Deller): A quorum is There would be no decline in the number of households not present, Speaker. assisted or the number of units modified for people with The Acting Speaker ordered the bells rung. physical disabilities. Clerk Assistant: A quorum is now present, Speaker. Mr Wayne Wettlaufer (Kitchener Centre): On a If this legislation is passed, municipalities would man- point of order, Mr Speaker: I wonder if it’s a point of age and operate their own social housing portfolios, so order to point out that there are only two Liberals in the that they would be able to provide better service to those House, and no NDP members. in need more efficiently. The province would be out of The Acting Speaker: That is not a point of order. the business of administering social housing but would Mr Brian Coburn (Ottawa-Orléans): I believe we maintain a role in setting and monitoring province-wide have unanimous consent to divide this evening’s debate standards. These standards would ensure, as I’ve already time equally between all three caucuses, that we forgo stated, that there are province-wide rules on eligibility questions and comments and that at the end of the even- and benefit levels and that the number of households re- ing the question shall be put. ceiving assistance, as well as the supply of units modified The Acting Speaker: Is it agreed? It is agreed. for the physically disabled, are maintained. I recognize the member for Ottawa-Orléans for debate. Standards further ensure there is compliance with the 1850 terms of the federal-provincial social housing agreement Mr Coburn: Today I move third reading of Bill 128, and that appropriate reporting procedures are in place. the Social Housing Reform Act. This act, if passed, The province would also maintain responsibility for would fulfill the government’s commitment to transfer mortgage renewals in the non-profit and co-op portfolio, social housing administration to the local level in order to manage the default risk and transfer federal funds to the build better communities in Ontario. local level. In 1997, we committed to restructuring provincial and I’d like to take a moment to describe how the legis- municipal responsibilities to put services into the hands lation proposes to transfer these programs to the munici- of the most appropriate level of government. We said palities. We propose a two-stage transfer. The province then, as we say now and continue to believe, that social would devolve the public housing stock, as well as com- housing is a service that belongs at the local level. mercial rent supplement units, as a complete business on Local governments are best positioned to respond to January 1, 2001. Responsibility for administering non- the local housing needs of their communities. They are profit and co-operative programs would follow over an the level of government that should be dealing with the 18-month period. Our goal is to have the public housing 6312 LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY OF ONTARIO 11 DECEMBER 2000 transfer take place at the start of the new year, and we ments to the bill to ensure that it is clear and consistent propose to give municipalities control of both the prop- with our policy intent. Members opposite participated in erty management business and the properties. Munici- that process—enthusiastically, I might add. palities would immediately have the say for pay for In particular, the stakeholders told us that Bill 128 which they have been asking. Their experience with the would have resulted in the termination of current ar- public housing business will help them as they plan to rangements for access to supportive housing without pro- take over the remaining non-profit portfolio. The em- viding assurance that a better system would be in place. ployees working for the existing local housing authorities We heard this concern and we’ve responded with amend- would be transferred to newly created local housing cor- ments to allow existing systems to continue until a better, porations. This would give them the necessary expertise more coordinated system has been fully developed. to operate the housing units and to minimize disruption to We’ve also added some additional amendments that the tenants throughout the entire transfer. would streamline the process for social housing transfers, The transfer of administrative responsibility for co-ops give service managers more flexibility to restructure local and non-profit housing would be completed within 18 housing corporations, improve the subsidy model for months of proclamation. The proposed legislation would non-profit and co-op housing providers and clarify the simplify the administration of non-profit and co-op hous- overall intent of the bill. ing by replacing a number of different operating agree- Much has been said about the cost of social housing ments for provincially led programs with one consistent and the municipal ability to manage these costs. This accountability framework. Under the new funding model legislation would give the municipalities the resources set out in the proposed legislation, non-profit and co-op and the flexibility to manage the future risks through the housing providers would be given a fixed level of sub- flowing of federal funding and the transfer of public sidy within which they’d be required to operate. Provid- housing stock and the administrative flexibility. If this ers would gain more autonomy, funding predictability legislation is passed, each of the 47 service managers and streamlined accountability. The roles and the respon- would get a share of the funds slated for that purpose in sibilities of non-profit and co-operative housing provid- Ontario’s social housing agreement with the federal ers as landlords would remain essentially the same, and government. By transferring the ownership of public communities could continue to rely on the talents and the housing, the province is providing municipalities with a dedication of volunteer boards to oversee these projects.