Official Hansard No

COMMONWEALTH OF AUSTRALIA

PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES

SENATE Official Hansard No. 6, 2003 TUESDAY, 17 JUNE 2003

FORTIETH PARLIAMENT FIRST SESSION—FIFTH PERIOD

BY AUTHORITY OF THE SENATE

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CONTENTS

TUESDAY, 17 JUNE Taxation Laws Amendment Bill (No. 2) 2003— Consideration of House of Representatives Message...... 11617 Health Care (Appropriation) Amendment Bill 2003— Second Reading...... 11622 Questions Without Notice— Manildra Group of Companies...... 11637 Distinguished Visitors...... 11638 Questions Without Notice— Taxation: Income Tax ...... 11638 Distinguished Visitors...... 11639 Questions Without Notice— Taxation: Family Payments ...... 11640 Medicare: Bulk-Billing...... 11641 Social Welfare: Pensions and Benefits ...... 11642 Women: Domestic Violence ...... 11643 Environment: Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority ...... 11645 Science: Stem Cell Research ...... 11646 Budget: Superannuation ...... 11646 Environment: Murray-Darling River System...... 11648 Medicare: Bulk-Billing...... 11649 Social Welfare: Gambling ...... 11650 Health: General Practitioners ...... 11651 Questions Without Notice: Additional Answers— Immigration: Ministerial Discretion...... 11652 Agriculture: Sugar Industry...... 11652 Questions Without Notice: Take Note of Answers— Medicare: Bulk-Billing...... 11653 Social Welfare: Gambling ...... 11659 Notices— Presentation ...... 11660 Postponement ...... 11661 Committees— Legal and Constitutional References Committee—Meeting...... 11661 Legal and Constitutional References Committee—Reference ...... 11662 Notices— Postponement ...... 11662 National Radioactive Waste Repository— Return to Order...... 11662 Committees— Community Affairs References Committee—Meeting ...... 11665 Select Committee on Superannuation—Reference ...... 11665 Notices— Postponement ...... 11666 Documents— Auditor-General’s Reports—Report No. 49 of 2002-03 ...... 11666 Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References Committee—Report: Responses to Senate Resolutions ...... 11666 Migration Legislation Amendment (Protected Information) Bill 2003 and Health Legislation Amendment (Medicare and Private Health Insurance) Bill 2003— First Reading ...... 11666

CONTENTS—continued

Second Reading...... 11666 Business— Rearrangement...... 11668 Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Legislation Amendment (Terrorism) Bill 2002 [No. 2]— Second Reading...... 11669 Health Care (Appropriation) Amendment Bill 2003— Second Reading...... 11694 Adjournment— Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Legislation...... 11705 General Douglas MacArthur Brisbane Memorial Trust ...... 11705 Aviation: Bakers Creek Air Crash ...... 11705 Aviation: Karratha and Port Hedland Airports ...... 11708 International Justice for Cleaners Day...... 11710 Environment: Greening Australia...... 11712 Depleted Uranium ...... 11714 Wentworth, Hon. William Charles, AO...... 11716 Documents— Tabling...... 11718 Tabling...... 11719 Questions on Notice— Agriculture: United States Farm Bill—(Question No. 916)...... 11720 Transport and Regional Services: Farm Management Deposit Scheme— (Question No. 955)...... 11721 Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry: Australian National Residue Survey— (Question No. 994)...... 11722 Trade: Beef Sales to Japan—(Question No. 1005)...... 11725 Trade: Livestock Export Accreditation Program—(Question No. 1175) ...... 11727 Trade: Live Export Mortality Incidents—(Question No. 1177) ...... 11727 Trade: Livestock Export Accreditation Program—(Question No. 1178) ...... 11737 Defence: Russell Offices—(Question No. 1191)...... 11737 Environment: Water Management—(Question No. 1198) ...... 11738 Agriculture: Dairy Structural Adjustment Program—(Question No. 1200)...... 11739 Agriculture: Supplementary Dairy Assistance Scheme—(Question No. 1214) ...... 11739 Agriculture: South Johnstone Sugar Mill—(Question No. 1219) ...... 11740 Manildra Group of Companies—(Question No. 1287) ...... 11741 Medicare: Bulk-Billing—(Question No. 1345)...... 11741 Trade: Diseased Wheat—(Question No. 1347) ...... 11745 Health: North Queensland General Practitioners—(Question No. 1368)...... 11747 National Security: Information Kits—(Question No. 1375) ...... 11750 Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Web Site—(Question No. 1405)...... 11750 Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Web Site—(Question No. 1406)...... 11751 Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Vignette Software— (Question No. 1407)...... 11752 Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Web Site—(Question No. 1408)...... 11753 Medicare: Bulk-Billing—(Question No. 1410)...... 11753 Attorney-General’s: United Nations Convention Breach—(Question No. 1411) ...... 11765 Depleted Uranium—(Question No. 1415)...... 11766

CONTENTS—continued

Defence: Portsea Site—(Question No. 1416)...... 11767 Health: Bulk-Billing—(Question No. 1421) ...... 11770 Health: More Allied Health Services Program—(Question No. 1424) ...... 11771 Defence: East Sale Air Force Base—(Question No. 1430) ...... 11779 Defence: Asset Sales—(Question No. 1433)...... 11779 Defence: National Storage and Distribution Centre—(Question No. 1435) ...... 11780 Defence: Campbell Park Offices—(Question No. 1436) ...... 11780 Defence: Brighton Army Barracks—(Question No. 1437) ...... 11781 Defence Materiel Organisation: Professional Service Providers—(Question No. 1443)...... 11781 Defence Materiel Organisation: Professional Service Providers—(Question No. 1444)...... 11782 Defence: Aircraft Operations—(Question No. 1445)...... 11783 Intelligent Island Program—(Question No. 1448) ...... 11787 Intelligent Island Program—(Question No. 1449) ...... 11787 Defence: Brighton Army Barracks—(Question No. 1451) ...... 11788 Philippines: Australian Mining Companies—(Question No. 1458) ...... 11789 Employment and Workplace Relations: Office of the Employment Advocate— (Question No. 1462)...... 11789 Environment: Seismic Surveys—(Question No. 1470)...... 11791

Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11617

Tuesday, 17 June 2003 employment or service for a maximum pe- ————— riod of four years. It also provides an exemption from interest withholding tax obligations The PRESIDENT (Senator the Hon. for a maximum period of four years. The bill Paul Calvert) took the chair at 12.30 p.m., also removes the current time limit of four and read prayers. years on exemptions from the foreign in- TAXATION LAWS AMENDMENT BILL vestment fund, known as FIF, rules for all (No. 2) 2003 holders of temporary visas. This measure Consideration of House of Representatives applies not only to temporary residents but Message also to holders of a number of other visa Consideration resumed from 13 May. classes. Senator COONAN (New South Wales— The Ralph Review of Business Taxation Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treas- recommended that tax exemptions for expa- urer) (12.31 p.m.)—I move: triates apply in relation to pre-residence as- That the committee does not insist on its sets and liabilities. But this bill goes further amendments to which the House of Representa- than that. It would extend that exemption to tives has disagreed. apply to foreign source income and with- Senator SHERRY (Tasmania) (12.31 holding tax obligations regardless of whether they related to assets acquired before or after p.m.)—On behalf of the Australian Labor their residency began in Australia. The cost Party, I will be speaking briefly to the message relating to the Taxation Laws Amend- of these measures is significant—between $40 million and $50 million per year. That ment Bill (No. 2) 2003. The Labor Party will means these measures would have a four- not be supporting the message that has been year cost of up to $200 million, and this is a communicated to us by the House of Repre- significant amount of money. sentatives. The issue in question is the treatment for income tax purposes of foreign ex- When these measures were put into this patriates. This is the second time this meas- bill, the government pre-empted its review of ure has been debated: last year in the Taxa- international taxation arrangements. The tion Laws Amendment Bill (No. 4) 2002 and Australian Democrats and Labor voted this year in the Taxation Laws Amendment against these measures then because we Bill (No. 2) 2003, although that latter bill wanted to see them dealt with in the context began life as the Taxation Laws Amendment of the review of international tax. What came Bill (No. 7) 2002. It is very obvious that the out of that review was a minimal set of Howard Liberal government is very keen to measures to reform the controlled foreign get it passed. It is an indication of the Liberal corporation and foreign investment fund government’s priorities that it incorporates rules. The big issues—streaming and tax this measure in a tax bill that includes reduc- relief for Australian taxpayers for foreign ing the tax offset available to people with dividend earnings—were ignored. The rea- high medical expenses. son the government could not do more is that it does not have the financial capacity to do This bill provides a tax exemption for more. It could not give back to ordinary tax- temporary residents—persons who have not been a resident of Australia within the last 10 payers the full proceeds of bracket creep; we years—for all foreign source income and discussed that last night. If it did, the budget would be in deficit in 2004-05 and 2005-06, capital gains not associated with Australian and that is against a background of record

CHAMBER 11618 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 high tax collection by this Liberal govern- which is the issue of dispute, concerns for- ment. This is the highest taxing government eign income exemption for temporary resi- in Australian history. Record high taxes, low dents. The second concerns exempting com- services. pensation for loss of defence remuneration. Senator McGauran—Increased em- The third chapter is titled ‘Amounts repaid ployment, high taxes. are not assessable income’. The fourth concerns amendments relating to tax offset for Senator SHERRY—That is the approach medical expenses, about which you could of this Liberal government. Senator McGau- have a number of opinions, but that has been ran, you had better check with your adviser let through. And the fifth concerns income what your contribution to this debate should tax exemption for the Commonwealth be—in an orderly manner, hopefully. There- Games Federation. The government has said fore, it could not afford to do anything much that, rather than accept the Senate’s view that to enhance the international competitiveness chapters 2 to 5 should pass and chapter 1 of the Australian tax system. In this coming should be set aside for later consideration in financial year, it is falling $900 million short conjunction with a broad review of interna- of giving back the proceeds of bracket creep tional tax, it disagrees. In fact, the message to Australian taxpayers. This is the $4 tax cut from the House is very specific. It says it is we discussed last night, which disappears for not appropriate that these measures should most Australians within the next year—the be referred to the review of international tax so-called sandwich and milkshake tax cut. arrangements. The fact is that RITA, as it is That is not a Labor description; it is a Sena- called, has reported but we have not seen the tor Vanstone, Liberal minister description. legislation which is attached to it. She is the one who dubbed it and gave it its true value and worth. The Prime Minister has recently raised the issue of the Senate not reviewing bills or This government could not even give back issues fully enough. Frankly, I think that is the proceeds of bracket creep to Australian an encouragement of us to be less helpful to taxpayers. It is not in a financial position to the government than we have been in the be giving $50 million a year worth of tax past. I think the Senate has been guilty of concessions to foreign expatriates. Where are being oversupportive of government and of the priorities of this government? The Labor allowing far too many bills to be considered Party will not support giving an extra $50 without being referred to committee. For million in tax concessions to foreigners. That instance, statistically, we are at present refer- is not a Labor priority. Labor will continue to ring only one-third of bills to committee. So press for its amendments for this reason. We I am sure the minister would agree that, in hope that other non-government members in light of the Prime Minister’s discussion, an the Senate will take the same view and that important issue like this should definitely go these measures will not pass. Accordingly, as off to committee and be properly and thor- I indicated at the commencement of my re- oughly reviewed in conjunction with the remarks, we will be voting to reject the mes- port on the international tax arrangements. sage from the House of Representatives. Of course it is our view, as it is the view Senator MURRAY (Western Australia) of the Labor Party, that you cannot consider (12.37 p.m.)—The Taxation Laws Amend- this issue of the foreign income exemption ment Bill (No. 2) 2003 is now before us for for temporary residents in isolation from a the third time. It has five chapters. The first, holistic review of our relationships on the

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11619 international tax front. So I think the gov- ductively and usefully involved in our com- ernment are caught in a bind. Firstly, they panies and organisations. I must say that the have not brought forward the necessary leg- Australian Democrats have not seen anything islation that follows from that, and perhaps which inclines them to change their minds. quite properly so—perhaps they are still con- In the broad we agree with the views of the sulting. Secondly, they have asked the Senate Labor Party, as expressed by Senator Sherry, to review these matters far more seriously. I except, as I say yet again, his view that this do not think the Senate should be of a mind is a high-tax country. We do not think it is a to rush at a measure like this, which is a cost high-tax country. We will accept the point of $50 million and may have negatives that that some Australians are taxed far too much we have not thought through. and some Australians are taxed far too little, The third area overhanging relative to the including the high-paid executives that are ways in which workers and executives who the point of some of this discussion. are foreigners are taxed is, of course, the So, Minister, the answer of the Senate to bigger issue of the remuneration of execu- you is that unless you include this in your tives in this country, which includes that of proposed international tax legislation, which foreigners who are working for Australian will then go to committee, we are not of a companies. This is an issue of great concern. mind to accept the government’s proposition It has been strongly and passionately debated at this time. in this place, yet we still await the CLERP 9 Senator COONAN (New South Wales— legislation with which we could address Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treas- these issues—and they are connected. There urer) (12.44 p.m.)—I rise to speak once more is a view in the Australian community that on the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill (No. some of these foreign expatriates who come 2) 2003 and specifically on the government’s to Australia are nothing but carpetbaggers, attempts to reform the tax treatment of expa- people who come here and rip off our com- triates, which the Labor Party and the De- panies and drive them into a loss making or a mocrats, sadly, see fit to oppose. The Labor poorer situation than they were in before. Of Party does not seem to care that this initia- course, that is not true of the majority of for- tive will address barriers to international eigners who come to Australia and work competitiveness in the tax system, and it here, who make a great contribution to our does not care that it is blocking measures life. But we should recognise that that car- that will create employment and investment petbagging taint does attach itself to some in Australia and that it will impede the de- very high profile circumstances. velopment of Australia as a strong financial The other point which exercises the minds centre. This is a proposal that will boost in- of those who have to consider these issues is vestment in Australia and boost jobs. One of whether there is a real sign of difficulty in the prime obligations of the government is to attracting foreign workers or foreign execu- do what needs to be done to create condi- tives to Australia because of our international tions that are most likely to provide work for tax arrangements. Frankly, the evidence we everyone who wants it. I would have thought have seen on this is circumstantial, it is an- that the Labor Party would embrace that pro- ecdotal and it is not borne out by the extraor- posal. Labor’s prime objective, however, dinary range of cultures and identities that appears to be to do everything possible to we are exposed to by foreign residents, both prevent this from happening. temporary and permanent, who are so pro-

CHAMBER 11620 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

The temporary residents measure demon- there are identified shortages, such as with strates the government’s commitment to ad- registered nurses, pharmacists, occupational dress barriers to international competitive- therapists, radiation therapists and other pro- ness in the tax system. The proposal will fessionals. Shortages of these kinds are often create employment and investment in Austra- temporary for a company and the short-term lia by removing competitive disadvantages to contribution of foreign sourced employees the development of Australia as a strong fi- assists the Australian community greatly dur- nancial centre. This objective has been sup- ing these periods. It is regrettable that the ported by successive federal governments, opposition cannot support a sensible and rea- by state governments and by a wide range of sonable policy change to make Australia business groups but, sadly, it is not supported more attractive to these foreign workers. by the federal Labor Party or the Democrats. The opposition’s mantra is that this meas- The changes will remove counterproduc- ure is a special concession for rich foreign tive taxes imposed on foreigners who work executives. It may be that some parts of the in Australia. It is disappointing that the op- opposition have simply misunderstood the position—and I refer to the opposition col- benefits that these measures will bring to the lectively—appears not to see that these un- very people whom you would think they fair taxes apply to many middle-ranking would normally support. The measure will management and specialist staff who come to apply to people who are Australian residents Australia to grow business, provide better for tax purposes but who are only here on products and enrich financial sector skills in temporary entry visas. Labour market intelli- this country. The way the Labor Party seeks gence undertaken by the Department of Em- to continually misinterpret and deliberately ployment and Workplace Relations in the misrepresent this measure to the Australian latter half of 2001 identified that there was a public is appalling. ‘Big business,’ they say, national shortage of accountants, registered ‘Tax cuts for the wealthy,’ they cry. These nurses, pharmacists, occupational therapists, irrational views are based on a narrow ideol- radiation therapists and information and ogy, which means that they refuse to recog- communication technology professionals. nise that those who stand to benefit from People granted a temporary resident visa to these measures will play a crucial role in the come to Australia to alleviate the abovemen- framework of our economy. tioned skills shortages could benefit from the It was said in debate that we do not want temporary resident tax exemption. In 2000- to be giving $50 million to foreigners. That 01, the top five occupations sponsored by mere proposition shows that, even now after employers under the business long stay visa years of debate, there is still some miscon- were computing professionals, applications ception about the bill. The benefits of this and analyst programmers, general managers, measure flow ultimately to the Australian accountants and—what we really need— employers of temporary residents. It is the registered nurses. These are the kinds of employers who usually bear the additional people who will benefit most from the meas- and, indeed, unfair costs of these people ure; not the rich foreign executives that La- coming to Australia. These measures create a bor talks about. fairer tax system, removing what must on Australia has surely grown up: we are no any view be regarded as arcane disincentives longer a closed and isolated country. We for those in the very professions that we need have major trading partners and major in- more of in Australia—professions where vestments, and we do recognise the benefits

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11621 of skilled labour and of the introduction and come from abroad. Under the government’s free flow of new ideas from overseas. Costs proposal, Australia will benefit from the dy- relating to temporary resident employees are namic effects of having more and better an important consideration in establishing businesses located here, as well as from the regional offices and headquarters and in expenditure and local employment they will making Australia a financial centre. How generate. Australia also benefits through the many times have we heard a debate about transfer of new management and other skills Australia becoming a branch economy? Here that key personnel can bring to Australian is a measure to address it, and yet it is ig- business. nored. Other countries in our region that We have been talking about undue haste. compete with us for this kind of investment When this legislation last appeared in this have also provided special concessionary tax place, it was suggested that the government arrangements for temporary employees. This had acted with undue haste in presenting government is not proposing substantial con- these reforms. I should add that the reforms cessions and benefits for foreigners; it is were recommended to the government by the simply proposing that some of Australia’s Ralph review of business tax in 1999 and historic and outdated impediments to labour introduced by the government last year and sourced from overseas be removed so we can again this year. During this lengthy period, stay in the game. the measure has been subjected to extensive Singapore is currently extending its al- consultation and has been consistently sup- ready concessional tax treatment. China is ported by business. This support has more emerging as a further competitor in the inter- recently been endorsed by the Board of national skilled labour market. The New Taxation. How that can be said to be undue Zealand government is currently considering haste is a matter of conjecture. methods of removing these labour market During debate in this place earlier this impediments. Yet the Labor opposition is year, it was suggested—I think Senator prepared to let Australia fall behind. Without Ludwig said it—that the government should reforms such as these, skilled professionals consider any changes to Australia’s interna- will continue to be lured outside Australia. tional tax regime as part of a package. In- The opposition does not seem to understand deed, Senator Murray said that also. The that, for Australia to even stay in the game government has now announced its response against its competitors and go on enjoying to the review of international tax arrange- the sort of growth we have seen in this coun- ments, which are also a very carefully and try and the economic prosperity that in one comprehensively balanced package. What is way or another we have all enjoyed, Austra- the Labor and Democrat position on the lia must find ways of continuing to be effi- package? Certainly, from the Labor Party’s cient, effective and competitive. announced statements, it opposes it. It offers It is not as if there is any alternative policy no policies of its own. In fact, Mr McMullan being discussed here today; the only action is has said that Labor supports the direction of to block all of these crucial reforms. Japan, all these reforms; it just has different priori- Hong Kong and the Netherlands are all ties for the money. That is the nub of it: it has streaking ahead of us now in attracting these different priorities. It merely opposes any kinds of workers, and yet the opposition to attempt by the government to make the last- this measure will continue to penalise busi- ing changes so sorely needed to assume and nesses that rely on specialist skills that can

CHAMBER 11622 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 assure Australia’s competitiveness as a will certainly take that on notice and give global financial centre. you a comprehensive answer. Rather than investing the intellectual re- Senator MURRAY (Western Australia) sources and effort and the political ticker to (12.55 p.m.)—The second question, Madam develop a sustainable international tax re- Chair—and rule me out of order if it is im- gime that will benefit Australia, the priorities proper—is really via you to Senator Sherry. of the opposition are simply to oppose. We If the government does not accept the insis- see mindless opportunism and obstruction- tence, once the international tax regime leg- ism, and it is indeed a very sad day for the islation is before us my intention would be to competitiveness of Australia and for the refer this section of the bill as well to the workers of Australia that we cannot achieve committee, which I hope would have a look these reasonable reforms. Opposition for the at that international tax legislation, because I sake of opposition, with their adding no con- think that would have to be done. I would structive ideas of their own for improvement, like to know if you would be prepared to is hardly the way this Senate works well. The consider that favourably in principle. government does not support these amend- Senator SHERRY (Tasmania) (12.56 ments. p.m.)—I can indicate we will consider it fa- Senator MURRAY (Western Australia) vourably in principle, but we will obviously (12.54 p.m.)—Minister, I was interested in have to discuss it with Mr McMullan. It will your remarks about the Ralph review and go through our appropriate internal proc- that the bill that is before us is part of the esses. review’s recommendations. I have a question Senator MURRAY (Western Australia) to you—would you prefer to answer it now (12.56 p.m.)—Just for the record, my point is or answer it on notice? I would like the gov- that that of course would constitute a thor- ernment to indicate every single recommen- ough review in the manner that I think the dation that Ralph put up, the number of those Prime Minister was remarking upon the recommendations that have been carried for- other day as necessary. ward in legislation and the number of those Question negatived. recommendations the government has failed to bring forward in legislation. Resolution reported; report adopted. Senator COONAN (New South Wales— HEALTH CARE (APPROPRIATION) Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treas- AMENDMENT BILL 2003 urer) (12.55 p.m.)—Obviously, the Ralph Second Reading review was a most comprehensive and far- Debate resumed from 16 June, on motion reaching report with a great number of rec- by Senator Kemp: ommendations, the majority of which have That this bill be now read a second time. been brought forward in some way, shape or form by way of legislation, by way of dis- Senator FORSHAW (New South Wales) cussion or by way of reference to the Board (12.57 p.m.)—I rise to speak on the Health of Taxation so that the matters can be prop- Care (Appropriation) Amendment Bill 2003. erly consulted about and an appropriate re- In doing so, I move the second reading sponse developed by the government. In amendment to this bill which has been circu- terms of what to tick and what not to tick, I lated in the name of my colleague Senator Evans: At the end of the motion, add:

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11623

“but the Senate condemns the Government people will remember that in November last for its health policy failures, including: year, as well as last week in Sydney, all Aus- (a) the Howard Government’s withdrawal tralian health ministers turned up with the of $918 million from public hospitals exception of the federal minister, Senator over the next 4 years; Patterson. The Commonwealth was repre- (b) the Howard Government’s unfair sented by an empty chair. A decision had Medicare package which will result in already been made by the government, effec- bulk billing, in time, only being tively by the Treasurer and the Prime Minis- available to pensioners and concession ter, on the amount of funding for health care. card holders and families being left to It was clear that, as far as the federal minister pay more and more for their health care; for health and the Commonwealth govern- (c) the Howard Government’s decision to ment were concerned, no discussion would increase the cost of essential medicines be entered into between her and the states by up to 30 per cent, hitting the sickest and the poorest hardest; and and territories, despite the states’ and territories’ greater appreciation of the sector’s (d) the Howard Government’s refusal to needs. review the $2.3 billion private health insurance rebate to ensure that it In January this year, the Treasurer said provides value for money for consumers that we should proceed on the basis that and taxpayers”. there would be no new money for health in The amendment encapsulates Labor’s view the budget. He was right. For once the on the government’s health policy failures, Treasurer kept his promise, because that is which I will describe in a little more detail precisely what we have seen. The forward later on in my speech. This bill sets the scene estimates revealed that $918 million would for the Commonwealth to make its ongoing be dragged out from funding of the health contribution to the funding of state public care agreements over the next four years. A hospitals through the Australian health care virtually identical amount, $917 million over agreements. The opposition supports the leg- four years, will be spent instead on the gov- islative framework that enables the Com- ernment’s unfair Medicare package, with monwealth to continue to fund the health zero net gain to health spending by the care agreements over the next five years. Our Commonwealth. This is a great lost opportu- great complaint with the Howard govern- nity. Nothing has been done and nothing will ment is the level of funding. be done to improve one of the great prob- People interested in this area may recall lems that we have in health care funding in that, at the health ministers conference in Australia at the moment—cost shifting. We 2002, all the states, both the territories and know that for years the system has been be- the Commonwealth—through the Minister devilled by cost shifting between the states for Health and Ageing, Senator Patterson— and the Commonwealth, and here was a per- agreed on a reform program. A task force of fect opportunity for the Commonwealth to clinicians was charged by the health minis- move beyond the old style approach and ini- ters conference to look at a range of reform tiate solutions to the problem. proposals and reform mechanisms. This set This bill and the negotiations leading up up expectations that there would be, firstly, to it provided an opportunity for the Com- adequate funding of the states through the monwealth to consider open, transparent, up- health care agreements and, secondly, im- front pooling of funds between the states and plementation of some reform measures. But the Commonwealth, not just for hospitals but

CHAMBER 11624 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 potentially for aged care, pharmaceutical billing doctor it is bordering on the disas- benefits and a range of other health areas. trous. Where does such an individual go? For the next five years every jurisdiction What happens is that the states and territories would know where each other jurisdiction ultimately have to pick up the tab when a stood on matters of health expenditure. This person who cannot find a bulk-billing doctor bill therefore represents, on one level, a great subsequently seeks assistance from a hospi- lost opportunity. But the greatest damage that tal. It might take two days, two weeks, two the government is doing in this legislation is months or two years but we know that to rip between $1 billion and $1.5 billion out sooner or later low-income Australians who of Commonwealth funding for state public cannot find bulk-billing doctors end up in the hospitals. emergency departments of public hospitals, It is also appropriate in this context to ex- thus putting even greater pressure on the amine briefly what impact the new unfair state system. State and territory health minis- Medicare package has on our public hospi- ters have been saying for some time that the tals. We know that when the Howard gov- collapse of bulk-billing is putting additional ernment came to office in 1996 bulk-billing pressure on our emergency departments. rates were at 80 per cent and that shortly af- They are now being inundated with people ter Labor left office in May 1996 bulk-billing who could and should have been dealt with rates peaked at 80.5 per cent. In every year by a GP. since then, under the Howard government It is also the case that those people who bulk-billing rates have fallen. With the re- are least able to afford to see a doctor or pay lease of the statistics for the March 2003 for a script are also those people most at risk quarter we see that the national figure for of serious illness or chronic disease. So how bulk-billing has plummeted to 68.5 per cent. has this government responded to the col- In round figures, that is a 12 per cent drop in lapse in bulk-billing? As I mentioned a mo- bulk-billing in the seven years that the How- ment ago and as this bill shows, the govern- ard government has been in office. Over half ment has responded simply by taking $918 of that drop occurred in the last year or so, million over four years out of the funding for effectively a six per cent drop within the last the health care agreements and by introduc- 12 months. ing its unfair Medicare package. Its Medicare In December 2001, the health department package pays incentives to doctors to bulk- advised that unless the government took bill pensioners and concession card holders dramatic action there would continue to be a only. That effectively destroys the universal- serious and dangerous decline in bulk- ity of Medicare and the integral role of bulk- billing. In response to this salient reminder, billing within it. Whilst it is disappointing to the government did absolutely nothing. As Labor and it is indeed disastrous for the late as December last year, the Prime Minis- health care system in Australia, the package ter stood in the other place and claimed it comes as no surprise to the opposition. It was factually incorrect to say that there was reflects the long-held views of the Prime a problem with bulk-billing. Every quarter, Minister, views expressed by the Prime Min- when we saw the release of official statistics, ister when he was the Leader of the Opposi- the minister for health would say, ‘These are tion in 1987, when his formal election com- disappointing rather than disastrous.’ They mitment to the Australian people at that time may not have been disastrous for the minister was that bulk-billing should be restricted to but for an individual who cannot find a bulk- pensioners, concession card holders and poor

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11625 people and that doctors should be free to and again in this year’s budget, the govern- charge everyone else what they chose. It has ment committing itself to increasing the cost taken him a few years but the Prime Minister of essential medicines by 30 per cent. We is now endeavouring to implement this ob- know from the health department’s own jective. That is what this government’s unfair analysis that five million pensioner scripts Medicare package now seeks to implement: will not be taken out as a result of the in- to reduce Medicare essentially to bulk-billing crease in the charge. What is the conse- for pensioners, concession card holders and quence of the Australian population, particu- the poor. larly pensioners, not taking out their scripts? The second thing that the government’s It is the same as the consequence of not see- unfair Medicare package seeks to do is en- ing a bulk-billing doctor. They end up in the able, for the first time, the patient rebate to emergency departments of public hospitals. be split from the doctor’s charge or copay- Combined with the crisis in bulk-billing, ment. That gives the green light to doctors to more and more people will be attending the charge whatever they want. On the release of emergency departments of our public hospi- the package, the AMA said that doctors’ fees tals at precisely the same time that the gov- would inevitably rise. The Parliamentary ernment is ripping over a billion dollars out Secretary for Family and Community Ser- of the funding for our health care agree- vices, the member for Parramatta, Mr Ross ments. Cameron, has also acknowledged this. Any Australians know that Medicare is the family with an income of $32,300 or more is world’s best health system and that only La- not eligible for a health care card or a con- bor has a plan to save it. We created it and cession card. As a consequence—bit by bit, we will now save it. Last month, Labor an- visit by visit—members of each of these nounced a $1.9 billion package to reverse the Australian families will end up paying more collapse in bulk-billing by lifting the patient and more every time they visit the doctor. rebate for bulk-billing. That will apply to all So the government’s unfair Medicare Australians, no matter where they live or package does not provide a solution to the how much they earn. A Crean Labor gov- dramatic collapse of bulk-billing or to the ernment will immediately lift the Medicare funding of our state public hospitals. As I patient rebate for all bulk-billed consulta- said, the government is ripping $918 million tions to 95 per cent and subsequently to 100 out of the health care agreements and effec- per cent of the schedule fee. That is an aver- tively funding its unfair Medicare package, age increase of $5 per consultation. In addi- costing $917 million, by that transfer of tion, Labor will offer powerful financial in- funds. When you look at the great areas of centives to doctors to support and extend public health policy—Medicare and bulk- bulk-billing, especially in outer metropolitan billing, health care agreements, state public and regional areas where the collapse in hospitals, the Pharmaceutical Benefits bulk-billing is hurting families most. Doctors Scheme, private health insurance—the gov- in metropolitan areas will receive an addi- ernment has dramatic failures for which it tional $7,500 each year for bulk-billing 80 should be and is being condemned on every per cent or more of their patients. Doctors in score. outer metropolitan areas and major regional centres will receive an additional $15,000 With respect to the Pharmaceutical Bene- each year for bulk-billing 75 per cent or fits Scheme, we find in last year’s budget more of their patients. Doctors in rural and

CHAMBER 11626 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 regional areas will receive an additional we do know is that the growth factored into $22,500 each year for bulk-billing 70 per this bill is around five per cent in nominal cent or more of their patients. These meas- terms, whilst in the previous five years it was ures are the first step towards Labor’s objec- over seven per cent. This in itself is concern- tive of lifting the average national rate of ing given that the government’s Intergenera- bulk-billing back up to 80 per cent or more. tional Report drew attention to the effect of Everywhere you look the effect of the an ageing population on the health budget. government’s policies on health increases the We ask why the federal government burden on individuals and that is at the heart would effectively be reducing its contribu- of the unfair Medicare package—to shift the tion when we are aware of the challenges cost to a user-pays system. That runs through that the public hospitals face in our country. every area of health policy: authorising in- Emergency departments have seen huge increases in private health insurance premi- creases in patients—these are of course peo- ums; hitting the sickest and poorest with a 30 ple who cannot afford fees the doctors per cent increase in the cost of essential charge in their area. Funding formulas con- medicines; reducing funding to the states for tinually squeeze hospital budgets, waiting public hospitals; and giving the green light to lists are still too long and so on. The gov- doctors to charge Australian families with ernment’s argument is also simplistic be- incomes of over $32,300 more every time cause the traditional boundaries between they visit a doctor. These are the great issues federal and state health authorities are con- of health care and health care policy before tinually shifting. What was once the clear the Australian community. As far as the gov- province of the states to provide an acute ernment’s unfair Medicare legislation is con- hospital setting is no longer the case. Inten- cerned, we will fight those changes tooth and sive home based treatments for the chroni- nail when they come before the Senate be- cally ill and for those with serious diseases cause the only consequence of those meas- are increasingly becoming technologically ures will be to hit Australian families. possible and, certainly, it is what the ill Senator ALLISON (Victoria) (1.12 would prefer. In the long run, home based or p.m.)—The Health Care (Appropriation) out of hospital treatments are less expensive Amendment Bill 2003 provides the Com- than hospital based care; however, they are monwealth contribution to funding our pub- only an option when someone takes respon- lic hospital system. The government argues sibility for them and they are properly that $42 billion over five years is an increase. funded. The states argue that it is almost $1 billion The 2003-04 budget papers are lower by less than the previous budget for the same $918.4 million than previous estimates of period. It also happens that the amount of funding for health care agreements. The $918.4 million that the states argue is a flimsy premise on which this is based—I shortfall is roughly equivalent to the gov- quote the portfolio budget statement—is: ernment’s Medicare package—I will come to ... a result of a greater proportion of public hospi- that a bit later. The federal government says tal services provided to non-admitted patients and that for the first time the states are being a reduction in public hospital usage growth be- challenged to be more transparent in their yond growth resulting from demographic funding to hospitals and to contribute the changes. same growth amount as the federal govern- We say that that is an extraordinary justifica- ment. But, of course, this is simplistic. What tion. We have here an analysis based only on

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11627 the volume of admitted patients, with no re- ambiguity and a lack of accountability of a gard for whether or not each acute care epi- substantial amount of taxpayer funds for one sode is more expensive. Of the most unwell of the fundamental services of government: are those treated in hospital. With less acute the provision of good quality health services. cases treated outside the hospital walls it is One needs to question why this might be so also the case that the intensive care necessary and why so few resources within the health in hospital is on average more expensive per department are directed towards ensuring the episode. As well, there is a strong push for principles of efficiency, quality, appropriate- reducing the length of stay in hospital, en- ness, accessibility and equity of health ser- dorsed by this government and its health de- vices as agreed under Medicare. partment. Worldwide, hospitals are now Is the answer that the government is not viewed as expensive and often inappropriate committed to ensuring that these principles places to recuperate. As long as the reduction are upheld? One might look to where the in the rate of growth is appropriate and does reduction in outlays has been allocated to not compromise quality, any government examine this government’s priorities. As I with long-term vision would be rewarding said before, the reduction of $918.4 million the states. Of course, the figures the govern- is the outlay required for the Medicare pack- ment uses to justify the reduction in state age. The government paid $140,000 just to funding may be due to the inadequacy of produce the title—A Fairer Medicare, and we performance data held by the federal gov- all know that it is not fairer. The marketing ernment. The ANAO audit report No. 21 has not fooled us and it has not fooled any- entitled Performance information in the Aus- body else, as far as I can see. It is galling that tralian health care agreements for the 1998- such misleading and wasteful marketing has 2003 appropriation period concluded: cost taxpayers so much and that the minister ... while individual indicators have the potential to for health shows no sign of taking responsi- contribute to monitoring, the set of indicators is bility for this particular poor performance. In not adequate for: fact, $140,000 would go a long way to assist • monitoring State and Territory conformance funding some self-funded, resource-stretched with the conditions and principles of fund- organisations, such as those for cystic fibro- ing; sis or motor neurone disease, which exist on • providing an informed assessment of pro- the goodwill of volunteers. gress against AHCA objectives; The Democrats say that the outlays for the • and monitoring the efficiency of the AHCAs. Medicare package which shift costs to the The ANAO found no evidence of further planning sickest and the poorest individuals are budg- by Health for the continued development and eted at $917 million. I do not think it is un- review of performance indicators on efficiency, reasonable to suggest that the government is quality, appropriateness, accessibility and equity not only dismantling Medicare with this of health services, consistent with the commitment of the AHCAs. package but also using funds from public hospitals to do so. This government has This is a serious lapse of accountability, the eroded confidence in the public health sys- Democrats say, and it appears to suggest that tem by marketing itself as financially re- this government accords very little priority to sponsible and claiming that no more money the principles underpinning its grants to the can be found while at the same time happily states on Medicare. That is, the lack of per- funding those policies it sees as a priority, formance information allows greater political

CHAMBER 11628 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 such as the $2.4 billion for private health ter to provide us with a costing of the wasted insurance rebates. effort that went into a process that in the end Let there be no mistake: the Democrats was totally ignored by the minister. want to see financial responsibility in gov- As I envisage it, this independent arbiter ernment, but diminishing investment in hos- could have the authority to build on the col- pitals and in quality health care is irresponsi- lection of data already held by the health ble. We think that government priorities need department, the Health Insurance Commis- to be more transparent. This requires good sion and the Australian Institute of Health quality information, which is currently not and Welfare, as well as hospital data from the available, and some mechanism for inspiring states. The arbiter would have the authority public confidence in the process. Given the to request and monitor data pertaining to abject failure of governments to date to un- services and service costs, and Australians dertake this process in a collaborative fash- could be confident that what they get is not ion, I believe there needs to be a change in just another product of political argy-bargy that mechanism. and spin wars between Liberal and Labor At the time the National Blood Authority governments. The Commonwealth and states was debated in the Senate, I congratulated could agree to a global budget at the begin- the minister on achieving a collaborative ning of an appropriation period, with an model with the states to establish a state- agreement about how those funds would be Commonwealth body for the collection, dis- spent—that is, both acute care services in semination and coordination of blood sup- hospital and after- and pre-care in the complies. That demonstrated that where there is munity. An acknowledgment would be made political will, a positive outcome can be about the proportion of spending that the achieved across Commonwealth-state di- Commonwealth excludes for the provision of vides. The Democrats have been calling for primary care, including pharmaceuticals, but an independent arbiter in health funding grants would also be included for the states since February this year. Just this week, this to provide primary care in rural and remote approach was endorsed by the Australian areas. Health Reform Alliance, which consists of I hope that in time more funding for pri- eminent groups such as the Australian Con- mary care will be allocated to the states, with sumers Association, the Australian Council the arbiter overseeing this to ensure national of Social Service, the New South Wales coverage and consistency of quality. How- Nurses Federation, Catholic Health Austra- ever, we recognise that all changes need to lia, the Australian Salaried Medical Officers be incremental. Where there are significant Federation and the Royal Australian College changes in the mix of primary and acute re- of Physicians. However, the minister rejected lated services, this needs to be addressed by this idea, on the basis that it adds another changes to annual funding, and this would be layer of bureaucracy. I find that an astound- within the scope of the arbiter’s authority. ing comment. The states and the Common- This represents a significant reform from the wealth have been embroiled in working par- present situation, but it is time to come up ties negotiating meetings for over a year, with some solutions. We need to keep this in possibly two years, with eight subgroups perspective, of course—we as a nation do looking at ways to improve health care de- have very good quality health services and livery. These working parties have essen- very good health outcomes, but there is a tially come to nothing. I challenge the minis- tremendous potential to improve on where

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11629 we are and to make the most of the excellent be done in the context of a major review of skill base we have in our medical and health how the different spheres of government work force. fund and deliver health care and how we de- We will support the bill. However, we are termine the funds required to provide quality not happy that funding for hospital services care for all Australians. The trend in state has been reduced, as I have already said. The spending does not justify a federal fine. budget surplus of $2.4 billion has been More alarming is the government’s inten- wasted on propping up private health insur- tion to reduce the foreshadowed expenditure ance, an estimated $1 billion leakage from in the next round of health care agreements the PBS system and a costly war against a and the justification advanced for that. The country that did not, as most us knew, have Howard government is trying to strip almost weapons of mass destruction—to name just a $1 billion from its contribution, as foreshad- few areas in which savings could have been owed in the forward estimates, on the spuri- made to better fund our hospital sector. We ous grounds that an increase in private health are not happy with the federal and the state insurance membership and private hospital governments still being at loggerheads over admissions means there is less demand on everything from hospital funding, to disabil- public hospitals. This argument does not ity funding, to housing funding. People are stand up to scrutiny. The latest available hos- sick of those two levels of government not pital figures from the Australian Institute of being able to get their act together on hospi- Health and Welfare are for 2000-01. They tal funding and on other issues. We suggest show that separations for public hospitals fell that an arbiter might be a very good solution by 0.1 per cent or 5,208 compared with the to sort this out. I foreshadow that the Democ- previous year. This contrasts with an increase rats will be moving a second reading in private hospital separations of 12.2 per amendment. It has not yet been circulated, cent or 244,802. The rise in the private hos- but I understand that it will be shortly. pital rate is substantial but, more importantly, Senator NETTLE (New South Wales) the fall in the public hospital rate is negligi- (1.24 p.m.)—The Health Care (Appropria- ble. When spread across a full year, it tion) Amendment Bill 2003 appropriates amounts to around 100 fewer separations a funds for the Commonwealth government’s week across the entire country. How then can contribution under the next round of Austra- the government argue that this is less pres- lian health care agreements with the states sure on public hospitals? Not only do the and territories, due to take effect from 1 July. figures undermine the government’s conten- The Commonwealth government proposes to tion, but its own policy objectives are at odds contribute $42 billion for the term of the with its claim. five-year agreement. The Commonwealth One of the main aims of the private health argues that its offer represents a substantial insurance rebate, the Medicare levy sur- increase, up by around $10 billion, on the charge and the lifetime cover age based pre- previous Australian health care agreements. mium penalties was to increase insurance It also plans to penalise those states that do membership among younger people who are not match its growth rate by reducing its less likely to need hospital treatment, par- contribution to them by four per cent. The ticularly elective surgery. So an increase in states have reduced their share of funding in younger people taking up private health in- recent years relative to the Commonwealth surance is unlikely to have any impact on and they should rectify this. But this should reducing pressure on public hospital admis-

CHAMBER 11630 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 sions. As well as this, a large majority of new ance arrangements. We could be forgiven for memberships for private health insurance believing that this is the government’s inten- include high up-front fees or excess in ex- tion—forcing everyone to pay more in direct change for a lower premium. This can dis- costs for health care, offering underfunded courage people from using their private in- charity services for the very poor and using surance, and they can opt instead to be public funds to subsidise the private insur- treated as a public patient in a public hospi- ance of high-income earners. At the Liberal tal. Then, of course, there is cost shifting, Party national conference earlier this month, and the federal and the state and territory the Prime Minister stated: spheres are guilty of cost shifting on health. ... what this Government has done is to take some This is one more reason that we need to re- of the load off the public component of healthcare view the respective roles of the different provision in Australia by strengthening and ex- spheres of government in this critical public panding the private component. policy area. We believe in a partnership between the public The shortage of aged care accommoda- and private sector to deliver superior health out- tion—a federal responsibility—has led to comes for all Australians. older people occupying public hospital beds, The fact is that most Australians want to be further increasing the pressure. The decline able to rely on a well-funded public system. in bulk-billing rates for GP services, over The idea of taking the load off the public which the Howard government has presided, sector is code for expanding the profit- has put additional pressure on the accident making sector and forcing more Australians emergency services at public hospitals. An- to pay a larger direct share of the cost of ecdotal evidence also overwhelmingly sup- health care and essential medicines. We have ports the view that our public hospitals are had the government’s proposal to increase still under pressure in spite of the govern- the patient copayment for essential PBS ment wasting almost $2.3 billion a year on medicines by 28 per cent, a proposal that the subsidising private health insurance. Ambu- Greens will continue to oppose because it lances are regularly sent on a search for a will hurt vulnerable and disadvantaged mem- hospital able to take critical patients as they bers of our community. We have had the are turned away from one accident emer- introduction of penalties and financial incen- gency unit to another, while other people tives. We have had the private health insur- with less serious conditions wait for hours ance rebate that costs the public almost $2.3 for treatment. All the evidence points to billion a year and which the government growing, not falling, pressure on the coun- wants to increase by extending private insur- try’s public hospitals. ance to out-of-hospital expenses as a part of In the face of such evidence, we have to its measures to dismantle Medicare by stealth. wonder about the government’s real motives. Does the government intend to take Australia The overwhelming majority of health the way of the United States, which spends economists have concluded that the private almost 14 per cent of its gross national prod- health insurance rebate is an inefficient use uct on health care compared to the OECD of public money. It does not buy one health average of eight per cent? Yet as many as 42 service. We have seen that the private sector, million of its people are without insurance which discriminates on the basis of in- coverage for medical and hospital services come—that is, if you can pay, you get the and as many again have inadequate insur- care that you need—is performing a growing

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11631 proportion of procedures that once would is well established by international research have been performed largely in public hospi- that private health insurance cannot survive tals. Private health care is more expensive without taxpayer subsidy, ‘unless the public than public health care; there are fewer price system is so poor that people feel forced to controls and more money is spent on admini- insure privately’. stration and marketing. Why would the gov- The Greens are deeply concerned that the ernment, which is continually lecturing us government is setting the framework for do- about economic efficiency, want to waste ing just that, slowly starving the public sec- public funds on an inefficient allocation of tor of funding, forcing people to pay more moneys to the private health care sector in when they need to buy health services— preference to the public sphere? It will cost rather than through progressive taxation— us all more. At the same time, it diminishes and undermining support among high- and our ability as a community to provide care to middle-income earners for a system that everyone who needs it when they need it, spreads the risk and the cost across the irrespective of their private capacity to pay. community. There is enough evidence on the As far as we can tell, the government has public record so that no-one should be in any no intention of withdrawing the private doubt as to the Prime Minister’s view of the health insurance rebate on the basis that the national public health insurance scheme. The rising membership should be delivering the Prime Minister has never supported bulk- sort of financial stability that the industry billing, having once described it as a rort. He claims it requires to be viable or on the basis was the Treasurer in the Fraser government that it has enabled the funds to boost their that, the little by little, dismembered Medi- reserves, which increased by 51.6 per cent bank. It took a series of electoral defeats for between 1999-2000 and 2000-01. The latest him to understand that Australians would annual report of the Private Health Insurance never vote into office a party intent on Administration Council sounds a warning dismantling Medicare, so he chose instead to about the financial viability of the funds, yet smooth his path to election and then an- the government is content to pour billions of nounced his plans to destroy Medicare. scarce health dollars into this sector, even The government’s package spells the end with these warnings being sounded. This is of the principle of universal public health industry assistance for the long haul not to care. It focuses on providing additional funds improve health outcomes, not to provide to support bulk-billing for people with con- greater social equity and not to strengthen cession cards, and this includes—let us re- the public health care system that treats all mind ourselves—self-funded retirees earning people; this is industry assistance to under- $50,000 a year, but it excludes low-income write an ideological agenda, undermining earners who do not qualify for a health care community services to enrich the private card. There is nothing fair about that. market and entrench privilege. Under the guise of simplifying the claim- We are seeing in health funding what we ing system, the government will open the have seen this government do in schools way for doctors to directly claim the patient funding in recent years. We should be alert to rebate at the same time as charging a copay- the consequences of this agenda in health. ment. This is a major shift. Previously, direct Australian National University political sci- claim of the patient rebate was permitted ence lecturer Dr Gwen Gray, writing for the only for bulk-billing services. This new pro- ABC Online in March this year, noted that it

CHAMBER 11632 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 posal will enable doctors to increase fees plan, which undermines the principle of uni- because the quantum, initially, will be lower versality enshrined in Medicare and takes than what people are paying now, being re- Australia down the road of privatised health duced by an amount equivalent to the rebate. care, with all of its dire consequences. The package is misdirected because around We are alarmed at reports that the Austra- 80 per cent of services provided to conces- lian Democrats are considering abandoning sion card holders are already bulk-billed. The their opposition to any measures that under- challenge is to lift bulk-billing rates for all mine bulk-billing for all Australians. Initially Australians. the Democrats joined the Greens in opposing The Australian Greens have already out- the government’s package, but late last week lined a series of measures to work towards Senator Allison was reported as indicating that goal. The private health insurance rebate that the Democrats could be persuaded to should be abolished and the funding redi- support the package if the government found rected towards public health. It should be a way to cap the copayment for non- used to lift the rebate for GP services by $5 concessionary patients. This is no way to for all patients, and the value of the rebate defend the principle of universality, nor will should be maintained not eroded through it improve access to bulk-billing for all Aus- neglect, as this government has done. There tralians. We call on the Democrats to join the should also be incentives for GPs who bulk- Greens in protecting Medicare from the gov- bill a substantial proportion of their patients. ernment’s privatisation agenda for health The fall in the value of the rebate is not care. the only reason for the decline in bulk- The Howard government is bent on de- billing, but it is an important factor. Other stroying Medicare little by little, in the way measures are needed to address work force the Fraser government dismantled Medibank issues. The Australian Greens support the two decades ago. Reducing the Common- work force measures in the government’s wealth’s contribution to the states and territo- package, but they fail to show any vision for ries for public hospital services on the alternative ways of delivering health care. grounds that private hospitals are treating For example, the Australian Greens believe more private patients is just one more tactic we should be examining salaried GPs who in this offensive agenda. Most Australians work in community health centres or who are want government to spend more, not less, on stationed alongside public hospitals. These health care, and the most efficient and equi- models may be particularly useful in regional table avenue for this to occur is through the centres and rural communities, where it is public sector. In the committee stage of this difficult to attract doctors working on a fee- bill, the Australian Greens will give the gov- for-service basis. We note that some states ernment the opportunity to respond accord- are experimenting with these options. ingly by reinstating its earlier spending The Australian Greens want Medicare ex- commitment. panded to cover more procedures, starting Senator WEBBER (Western Australia) with dental services and the provision of (1.39 p.m.)—We have barely begun to de- more funding for mental health. Our propos- bate the budget and its associated bills in this als and our vision for providing quality, af- place when the government introduces the fordable public health care for all Australians Health Care (Appropriation) Amendment stand in stark contrast to the government’s Bill 2003 in what can only be described, to

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11633 my way of thinking, as one of the most ri- has presided over Medicare for seven long diculous three-card tricks that we have ever years and, during that time, has ensured that seen. Thanks to this government, the univer- we have seen the beginning of its destruc- sality of Medicare will be reduced to the tion. Bulk-billing rates have declined, from a waste bin of Australian history if these and high of 80 per cent down to 68 per cent. other measures are fully implemented. The What is the direct consequence of this? government would have us believe other- More and more of our fellow Australians are wise. In fact, the Parliamentary Secretary for presenting at the accident and emergency Health and Ageing said in the other place: departments of Australian public hospitals, This bill delivers on the government’s strong seeking the provision of basic health care commitment to the principle of universality under services. These are services that could be Medicare. provided by a doctor or a medical practice I doubt very much that the Australian people but, as our fellow Australians can no longer believe that. From that comment and from afford to pay the fees charged by doctors, others, you would think that the government they go to the one place where they know has always been committed to Medicare. they will not be turned away because of their Nothing is further from the truth. Ask anyone lack of ability to pay. and they will probably tell you that there is This government is building a health sys- very little that is universal about Medicare tem that is all about money: if you have the under the stewardship of the Howard gov- money, take out private health insurance; if ernment. Firstly, you have to find a doctor or you have the money, go and see a local doc- a medical practice that will bulk-bill. As we tor and pay the fees. But what happens to all know, over the last seven years this has those without the money? They are con- become more difficult. In the electorate of demned to lining up in the accident and Hasluck, in my home state of Western Aus- emergency departments of our public hospi- tralia, of the 62 local GP and other medical tals for hours and hours, waiting to have their practices, only 25 bulk-bill. Of those 25, basic health care needs met. At a time when only two or three universally bulk-bill; the we know that the number of presentations at rest are just for health care card holders. If public hospitals is going up, this bill cuts you do manage to find a doctor who bulk- their funding. The government is cutting the bills, you will find that it is probably only for funding to public hospitals to fund its ap- the young, the old or other health care card proach to Medicare. holders. In Victoria in 2002 an extra 50,000 pa- This government runs around the country tients presented to the public hospital system sprouting this nonsense about its package because of the failings of this government. delivering universality, but what it really Emergency admissions are increasing by delivers is ‘user pays’. This bill is part of that eight per cent a year. In New South Wales in user pays nonsense. This bill delivers a $1 the same period, emergency department billion cut from the forward estimates for presentations exceeded two million. That health care in our public hospital system. At means that each week in New South Wales a time when the public hospital system in some 40,000 of our fellow Australians are this country is in crisis, the government is turning up in public hospital emergency de- actually cutting money from it. We all know partments. In my home state of Western Aus- why it is in crisis, and it is a crisis of the tralia, on any given day 1,146 people are government’s own making. The government

CHAMBER 11634 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 admitted to our public hospitals, a further of people that are either in low-income 824 people are treated in our emergency de- groups or who receive Centrelink payments. partments and discharged, 11,283 people If you go any further north in Western Aus- attend an outpatient session, and over 250 tralia than Geraldton there is no provision for operations are performed. When you take private health services at all. There are no into account all those statistics, what does private hospitals and GP services are, in the this bill do? It cuts a billion dollars from the main, delivered through the public hospital funding for those procedures. system, through organisations like the Abo- The government’s defence is that with the riginal medical services, or there are salaried increase in private health insurance the load GPs provided by local government authori- is being lifted from public hospitals. Let us ties. Yet that population still has to pay either examine that defence. For the small sum of the private health insurance premium or the some $4 billion—the private health insur- extra tax this government has imposed on ance rebate, which is increasing all the those who do not take it out. So they pay for time—private hospital admissions have gone a service that they cannot physically access, up by less than one per cent. So let us be thanks to this government. quite clear about this. Four billion dollars or This is the rebate scheme that costs the so increases private hospital admissions by budget more and more each year because of one per cent. Yet at the same time, in the case the increases that health funds seek to meet of Victoria, they get their share of the $1 bil- their costs, yet they do not deliver services to lion cut and they get to treat an extra 50,000 a significant proportion of those in my home people. state. It is an increase that the Prime Minister There is something fundamentally un- said would have to go before parliament, but sound about how this government ap- which never really has. This approach was proaches health care. It put in place a system meant to relieve pressure on our public that forces a whole lot of people into private health system. This approach was said to be health insurance, which costs a significant all about reducing the load on public hospi- amount. Let us not fool ourselves by pre- tals, and yet we have ended up with the op- tending that it does not represent a lot of posite result. money. Even with the benefit of the rebate At the same time the government does offered by the government, I am aware of a nothing to relieve the pressure on Medicare. family in the northern suburbs of Perth, a Bulk-billing rates have fallen by 12 per cent family of six with basic hospital coverage, in seven years and the effect of the decline in that are paying nearly $180 per month. I am Medicare bulk-billing is the increase in peo- told by this family that their health insurance ple going to our public hospitals. So for a premiums have gone up at least once a year whole lot more money the government has for the last three years. This family can now not fixed the problems in public hospitals nor only find a medical practice that will bulk- addressed the problems in Medicare. In fact bill for children under the age of 12. it has actually made them worse, with private Recently I travelled in the north-west of health funds being subsidised to the tune of Western Australia. The north-west has the up to $4 billion supposedly to address the great distinction of having a fair number of problems in the health care system. At the high-income earners who work in the mining same time as this is meant to prop up the and resource sector and also a great number private health insurance scheme we have seen an enormous pressure on Medicare and

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11635 a rampant increase in the workload in our the best way to decrease the pressure on our public hospitals. public hospitals is not to fill up accident and So what is the government’s new response emergency departments with patients who to that? This government cuts a further bil- should be seeing their local GP—patients lion dollars from public hospitals. The logic who have voted with their feet as a conse- is inescapable really. In fact the logic has quence of not being able to afford to pay for escaped entirely from the government’s ap- their visits to their local GP. Health should proach to the delivery of health care services. not be about how deep your pockets are but If you want to reduce the load on the public about need, and your ability to pay should hospital system you should invest money in not determine your level of need. those areas that will see fewer people pre- Nor should we accept the Commonwealth senting at our public hospitals. If you want stripping the funding from public hospitals to more people to use private as opposed to fund the user-pays private health system. public hospitals then you would perhaps look Government spending should be about re- at the health insurance rebate. However, you ducing the load on public hospitals through would only do this in a situation where you increasing the rates of bulk-billing—and La- could make sure that no other factors im- bor has outlined a very clear way of achiev- pacted on it. You would have achieved your ing that. It should not be about the redistribu- goal if you did not then fill up the public tion of taxpayers’ moneys to prop up an in- hospitals with new patients. Where are these dustry that was failing to attract new mem- new patients coming from? They have come bers. It should not be about allowing those from all those medical practices and doctors’ same funds to increase their premiums and surgeries across Australia that have stopped therefore also increase the cost of the gov- bulk-billing or only bulk-bill a limited pa- ernment’s contribution as a consequence of tient group. their own actions. And then we get the com- So the health budget is being eaten away plaints from the private health insurance by the need to prop up the private health in- companies because their members actually surance rebate scheme. If this is not the make claims. worst case of taking public money and pass- What did the health funds expect was going it directly to industry, I do not know what ing to happen when they got a compliant it is. All this money is going directly to the government to force people into something private health insurance industry and yet we they did not really want to join? Of course are not solving any of the underlying prob- they were going to put in claims. Of course lems in our health system. This would have they would look at their private health insur- to be industry welfare of the worst kind, and ance as a cost—but one the funds themselves it is now paraded as reasonable health policy. marketed on the basis of being able to claim The Australian Labor Party have outlined for health related items. So what did the a way of increasing the rate of bulk-billing members do? They put in lots of claims. within the budget’s ability to pay, and by Then the health funds, with this captive con- doing so we will relieve the pressures on our sumer base, had to put up their premiums public hospital system and allow accident because they were losing money. Should we and emergency departments to deal with ac- actually be surprised? Of course not. When cident and emergency cases, not people that people are conscripted, when they are denied cannot access GP facilities. We believe that a choice, do not be surprised when they

CHAMBER 11636 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 make sure they get everything they can out are being provided to non-admitted public of it. patients than has been previously the case. I After all this, this government needs to presume that that means—and perhaps the strip $1 billion from our public hospitals. minister can fill us in on this when we get to This government’s health system is a cruel the committee stage—more pressure is put joke perpetrated on the Australian taxpayer. on accident and emergency services and that It has reduced universality to a concept of there is more day surgery. I guess we will get user pays. Unfortunately, the effect of this is to the committee stage of the Health Care that all Australians are paying, even if they (Appropriation) Amendment Bill 2003 later. are not in a private health scheme. They pay Also, the Commonwealth argues that be- through the increasing cost of the rebate. cause there has been a reduction in the rate They pay through the increasing strain on the of growth in the use of our public hospitals public hospital system. They pay through they deserve to face these cuts. I presume their inability to find a doctor who bulk-bills. that it revolves around the increased use of They pay and pay and pay and end up with private hospitals for elective surgery. Other poorer health outcomes. issues that are facing our public hospitals include beds being closed because the hospi- Senator LEES (South Australia) (1.53 tals have run out of funds or because they p.m.)—It will be no news to anyone listening simply cannot find the nurses to staff them. to this debate that the states and the Com- Most public hospitals do not seem to have monwealth are at loggerheads yet again over reduced their waiting lists; nor to any great funding for our public hospitals and have extent have they reduced any of the other gone back into their respective trenches. It waiting lists. Besides the ones for elective happens time after time after time. The battle surgery there are many waiting lists for visits has as usual seen accusations fly as to who is to specialists and in some cases, unfortu- putting in how much money and who should nately, urgent treatment such as for cancer. be putting in how much more. The Com- monwealth argues this time that it has put in Minister, we see that the usage of private a real increase of 17 per cent in funding. It hospitals has gone up. The number of people argues that the states are the ones that are accessing private hospitals has certainly being difficult and that their intransigence is jumped, but the pressure on the public sys- all down to their having Labor governments. tem has not come down. It has not come The states, on the other hand, accuse the down in any really measurable amount and Commonwealth of not offering a real in- certainly not to the point where people can crease but a decrease in what was expected expect timely access and that that access can of about $1 billion over the life of the be assured on the basis of merit. I believe it agreement. The federal minister has refused is simply not fair or reasonable for the to attend meetings with state health minis- Commonwealth to ignore what is actually ters. Accusations have been flying from the happening on the ground in our public hospi- state health ministers back to the Common- tals. Some ideological, wished for scenario wealth about the offer. Indeed, the Com- of people all rushing off to private hospitals monwealth has made it clear that it is not if they have any sort of problem with waiting going to increase the offer. in the public system is not going to happen. For some it is a financial issue: they simply The minister argues that savings should be cannot afford private health insurance. They made because more public hospital services do not want to risk the gap they may be

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11637 faced with if they go private. For some it is a Commonwealth funding, and I believe they case of up-front fees for the specialist to be- should give a public commitment to doing so gin with. For others it involves the nature of as soon as possible. their illness or when or where it occurs. Most Debate interrupted. private hospitals do not operate a 24-hour QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE emergency service. It will be interesting to see the state by state figures on how many Manildra Group of Companies private hospitals are offering a 24-hour acci- Senator O’BRIEN (2.00 p.m.)—My dent and emergency service. question is to Senator Minchin, the Minister So where does the truth lie? As usual, it is representing the Minister for Industry, Tour- between the two extremes. The Australian ism and Resources. Can the minister confirm Institute of Health and Welfare says that the that an ethanol production subsidy of $17.13 states are falling behind in the amount that million was paid to the near monopoly com- they contribute to our hospitals. It points out pany in Australia’s domestic ethanol indus- that the share of funding that the states put in try, the Manildra Group, between October has fallen from 45.4 per cent in 1998-99, last year and May this year? Can the minister when the last health care agreement was also confirm that during this period Manildra signed, to around 43 per cent in 2000-01. Of marketed fuel containing ethanol concentra- the total moneys put in during that period, tions of 20 per cent—a level the government the Commonwealth’s contribution has stayed has now finally acknowledged is not safe for stable at around 48 per cent. The missing Australian cars? Why is the Manildra Group nine or 10 per cent, for those who are doing receiving more than $2 million per month their maths, is down to non-government con- from the Commonwealth to undertake ex- tributions. actly the same monopoly activity it did before the subsidy was introduced? We must look at what the Senate can do as far as this ongoing battle between the Com- Senator MINCHIN—I will have to take monwealth and the states is concerned. As it on notice the details of exactly what pay- is an appropriation bill we will be supporting ments were made to which producers under the legislation. Yes, we can attempt to in- which programs for what purposes. I am crease the amount—and I note that there is at happy to get that information as soon as I least one amendment being circulated that is possibly can. The government has been quite directed towards doing that—but I cannot open and up-front about its attitude to etha- imagine that that will be acceptable to the nol. We think ethanol has a role to play in the minister and to the government. As the min- fuel mix in Australia. We note that, for a va- ister has previously said, the Commonwealth riety of reasons, there was buyer resistance has made an offer and it is not going to to ethanol. The government has done abso- move. As we look at the legislation specifi- lutely the right thing to indicate that a 10 per cally, there are certainly some positives. I cent cap and proper labelling should be in- congratulate the minister on her direction to troduced. We were hoping that the states the states that they must declare publicly the would do the right thing in terms of con- level of funding that they are going to pro- sumer information. We think consumer in- vide. I also congratulate her for the improved formation is the critical issue in relation to performance reporting framework that is this particular fuel. being put in place under this legislation. I After a pretty exhaustive series of studies, also agree that the states should match the the government came to the view that a

CHAMBER 11638 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

10 per cent limit was appropriate. It was not end, or whenever it was. But for the Labor appropriate to indicate that limit until we had Party to have the hide to reflect adversely been through a pretty exhaustive process of and dishonourably upon the Manildra Group determining what was an appropriate posi- and, indeed, the government in relation to tion for the Commonwealth to take. Mandat- any donations that it may make—and, as I ing or capping is quite a serious step but we have read, the head of Manildra supports think, in the light of the tests that have been both political parties—is quite outrageous in done, that is appropriate. We want this to be light of the rort that goes on in sustaining the part of Australia’s fuel mix. It is appropriate Labor Party through Centenary House and to introduce this particular fuel into the fuel the outrageous lease arrangements which mix—but at the end of the day it is a matter they have. How dare they come in here and for consumers to decide whether they want make any suggestions of impropriety on our to buy fuel which has a safe component of up part. to 10 per cent of the fuel that they buy—and DISTINGUISHED VISITORS to ensure that retailers of fuel make sure that The PRESIDENT—Order! I wish to consumers know exactly what it is that they draw the attention of honourable senators to are buying. As to the other matters, I will get the presence in the chamber of a delegation some information as soon as I can. from the Republic of Croatia led by the Senator O’BRIEN—Mr President, I ask Speaker, His Excellency Mr Zlatko Tomcic. a supplementary question. The minister has On behalf of honourable senators, I have the information in answer to a question on pleasure in welcoming you to the Senate and notice No. 1287 that he gave to me. Can the trust that your visit will be both informative minister confirm that in 2001-02 the Manil- and enjoyable. With the concurrence of hon- dra Group gave more than $200,000 in po- ourable senators I propose to invite the litical donations to the Liberal and National Speaker to take a seat on the floor of the parties? Can the minister also confirm that Senate. last weekend representatives of Manildra Honourable senators—Hear, hear! attended a National Party fundraiser on the Mid North Coast of New South Wales and QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE generously bid $1,000 for a bottle of Rose- Taxation: Income Tax mount signed by the Deputy Prime Minister Senator TCHEN (2.05 p.m.)—In his and $5,000 for a bottle of Grange signed by budget speech delivered on 13 May, the the Prime Minister, among other items? Is Treasurer announced further tax cuts to Aus- there any connection between Manildra’s tralian workers and families. My question is financial largesse to the coalition and the to the Assistant Treasurer, Senator Coonan. coalition’s largesse to Manildra through pro- Can the minister advise the Senate of the duction subsidies for a near monopoly activ- progress of delivering these tax cuts to Aus- ity, which, Minister, you tell me was worth tralian workers and families? Further, is the $17,132,670.09 between 17 October last year minister aware of any alternative policies? and 30 May this year? Senator COONAN—Senator Tchen, Senator MINCHIN—Being a member of thank you for the question. It is with great the Liberal Party and not the National Party I pleasure that I am able to inform the Senate am not in any position to confirm which that last night the government’s $2.4 billion business observers attended the New South tax cut was passed and will come into effect Wales National Party conference last week-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11639 on 1 July. The fact is that these tax cuts Australia to fill jobs where there are identi- really are l-a-w—they actually exist and they fied shortages. The Labor Party oppose our will be delivered. They are evidence of the reduction in the superannuation surcharge. Howard government’s philosophy that once They want to abolish the baby bonus. They vital expenditure needs are met—defence, still have not come clean on what they are national security, health and higher education going to do about the private health insur- reform—money should be returned to tax- ance rebate—and whatever commitments payers. they give only last about as long as the ap- The tax cut is also progressive. The big- pointment and tenure of each successive gest percentage benefit goes to low-income shadow health minister. And of course we all earners, particularly those who benefit from know that Labor have form when it comes to the increase in the low-income tax offset. abolishing tax cuts. Who can ever forget the The tax cut adds to the $12 billion in the per- disappearing l-a-w tax cuts after the 1993 sonal income tax cuts that were a central part election? of the government’s tax reform package in If ever we needed more evidence that La- 2000-01. They were the largest tax cuts in bor cannot be trusted on tax we need look no Australian history. There can be no room for further than the Labor state governments. In doubt about this government’s commitment Victoria the Bracks government has in- to tax reform. The Howard government has creased car registration and indexed hun- also abolished the wholesale sales tax, abol- dreds of fees and fines to the CPI. In South ished financial institutions duty, abolished Australia the Rann government has slugged stamp duty on share transfers, halved capital every household $30 a year. In Western Aus- gains tax, introduced family tax benefits tralia the Gallop government has increased parts A and B, reduced company tax from 36 stamp duty on property transfers. In Queen- per cent to 30 per cent, introduced the baby sland the Beattie government has introduced bonus, abolished Labor’s automatic indexa- a new $88 tax on all electricity account hold- tion of fuel excise, cut effective diesel excise ers. rates for heavy vehicles and introduced the We have Labor’s promises to oppose or private health insurance rebate. reverse at least three key tax cuts of the gov- Meanwhile, Labor is missing in action on ernment. Whoever leads the Labor Party, the issue of tax. On the one hand, they claim they are and always will be a party of higher that the tax cut is too small and that they will taxes on hardworking Australian families. further reduce the overall tax burden. How- When it comes to Labor promises, don’t lis- ever, so far they have promised to fund their ten to what Labor says, watch what Labor promises by opposing or reversing the gov- does. Labor stands for higher taxes. The only ernment’s tax cuts. Labor are committed to party with any commitment to removing the opposing our international tax reforms which tax burden from ordinary Australians is the will make Australia more competitive as a government. regional centre. Just earlier today the opposi- DISTINGUISHED VISITORS tion refused to pass reforms to the tax treat- The PRESIDENT—Order! I draw the at- ment of workers who are temporarily resi- tention of honourable senators to the pres- dent in Australia. Who does this hurt? It ence in the President’s gallery of distin- hurts Australian employers who usually bear guished former senator the Rev. John Wood- the cost of bringing nurses, engineers, occu- ley. Welcome back, John. Nothing has pational therapists and other professionals to

CHAMBER 11640 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 changed much since you left. It is good to treatment, it will support a system where see you here. families in the same position with the same Honourable senators—Hear, hear! income get the same assistance. This system will allow for an advance payment of that QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE annual payment, to be paid out fortnightly, Taxation: Family Payments based on a customer’s estimate of income. Senator MARK BISHOP (2.09 p.m.)— Just as with the tax system, where some peo- My question is to the Minister for Family ple get a refund cheque and some people get and Community Services, Senator Vanstone. a letter saying, ‘You owe us more,’ so it is Can the minister confirm that, on current with the family tax benefit system. Some estimates, 651,000 families will receive fam- people will have underestimated their in- ily debts averaging $851 as a result of incor- come and because they have actually earned rect family payments made last financial more than that they will obviously get less year—no fewer debts than the previous fi- support, because under this system the richer nancial year despite her claims that, as fami- people get less and the poorer people get lies became accustomed to the system, debts more. They would therefore need to pay would drop? Why has the minister’s depart- some money back. ment now advised the Prime Minister that I did not hear the good senator refer in his overpayments will fall this year by approxi- question to the hundreds of thousands of mately 200,000 as a result of the so-called families who overestimate their income, find more choices package when just 77,000 out they have earned less at the end of the families have in fact taken up the package? year and, under this system, get a top-up in a When is the minister going to admit that her way that they never did in the past. Hundreds family payments system is fundamentally of thousands of families are getting a top-up. flawed? We regard a system, Senator—through you, Senator VANSTONE—I thank the sena- Mr President—where families in the same tor for the opportunity given to me by his circumstances with the same income get the question to yet again point out the tremen- same amount of money as a fair and equita- dous increase in payments to families by this ble system. We do not regard it as flawed; we government. The amount we spend now is regard it as a fair and equitable system. something like $11 billion a year in support It is a massive change from the way things for families, something the previous gov- used to be, Senator, with a complicated range ernment never did. I pointed out in my an- of payments now down to two or three much swer to a question yesterday what a substan- simpler payments. It is a change whereby tial increase in support to families there has entitlement is not based on your position on been under this government. There has been a fortnightly basis but on an annual basis. It a change and, three years later, we still have is aligned with the tax system. As long as the Labor Party asking about it because they this system stays in place, just as with the tax still have not cottoned on. system, there will be people at the end of the The change is to an annual payment to year who get a top-up and there will be peo- families, where families in one set of cir- ple at the end of the year who have an over- cumstances, with the same income and the payment and who will probably either pay same number of children of the same age, that back directly, if they can afford to, or will get the same amount of money. If Labor will treat it as a down-payment on next wants to market itself as a party of equity year’s very generous payments. I remind

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11641 you, Senator, that the average payment to a proposals for Medicare that will increase the family is over $5,000 tax free. I recall that financial burden on Australian families? members opposite raised in this chamber the Senator PATTERSON—I thank Senator case of a man on an income of around Eggleston and acknowledge his interest in $30,000 who has seven children. He gets health and his significant background as a something like $25,000 tax free under this medical practitioner. The $917 million fully system. It is a very fair system and a very funded package of measures is to strengthen generous system, clouded for the public, I Medicare to make it more accessible and might say, by misconceptions carried into the more affordable. The Labor Party never community by Labor. cared a skerrick about accessibility. They Senator MARK BISHOP—Mr Presi- refused to address the issue. There were too dent, I ask a supplementary question. Can the few doctors in rural areas and too few doc- minister explain why the average level of tors in outer metropolitan areas; the doctors family payment debts has risen by around were clustered in the metropolitan areas. $20 since the first year in which the system This is a package about access and afforda- operated? Why is the minister’s department bility. We identified that there was an equity refusing to consider any changes to family problem in the way Medicare currently oper- payment rules when the number of families ates. Patients’ costs for visiting a GP de- in debt has not dropped and the amount of pended more on where they lived than on debt each family owes is rising each year? their ability to pay. That is why we devel- Senator VANSTONE—I note that the oped significant scaling incentives to GPs, senator still refers to these as debts—in one depending on their location, to bulk-bill sense they are; it is money that has to be paid some or all of their patients. The level of back—but that terminology of course con- incentives rises substantially the more re- ceals that a family in the same set of circum- mote the practice is. They range from an av- stances as the family next door has more erage of $3,500 to an average of $22,050 money than the family next door. I do not each year. Those GPs who participate in the think that is equitable. If you are in the same General Practice Access Scheme and whose set of circumstances as the family next practices are located in an urban area of door—with the same income and with the work force shortage will also be eligible for same number of kids of the same ages—you assistance to employ a practice nurse. The should get the same amount of money. And if government will provide $8,000 payment per you have received more money, you should full-time GP up to a maximum of $40,000 to pay it back. hire a nurse for the practice. It has been estimated by some people that a full-time prac- Medicare: Bulk-Billing tice nurse relieves a doctor’s practice of Senator EGGLESTON (2.15 p.m.)—My about the equivalent of 0.5 of a medical prac- question is to the Minister for Health and titioner. Ageing, Senator Kay Patterson. Will the This package has been fully costed and, minister outline to the Senate how the How- unlike Labor’s alternative, it is not coming ard government’s A Fairer Medicare package out of a deficit budget, which they are very addresses the need to assist GPs to bulk-bill good running. It is not coming out of an in- while remaining fiscally responsible? Is the crease in existing taxes. It is not coming out minister aware of any alternative unfunded of the abolition of the private health insurance rebate. Senator Coonan referred to that

CHAMBER 11642 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 a moment ago in answer to a question. Mr covered by private health insurance. Will Crean has to come clean and tell the Austra- they take it off ancillaries? Doing that would lian public—those people who have private mean Australian families would be $230 a health insurance—whether they will be do- year worse off. How will Mr Crean justify ing anything with the rebate. They ought to this to the 1.14 million Australians over the come out and commit. He keeps saying that age of 60 who rely on access to ancillary they have a health policy. He has a portion of benefits to enhance their quality of life with a policy. He has not admitted or told the Aus- optometry, dentistry, physiotherapy et cetera? tralian public what he is going to do about It is an important preventative measure private health insurance or what they are against hospital admission. They would lose going to do about the private health insur- that benefit if Labor tampered with the pri- ance rebate. vate health insurance rebate. (Time expired) The Howard government has addressed Social Welfare: Pensions and Benefits the need to assist GPs to bulk-bill by provid- Senator HOGG (2.20 p.m.)—My ques- ing a raft of measures and incentives to make tion is to the Minister for Family and Com- the majority of GPs better off while, more munity services, Senator Vanstone. Is the importantly, remaining fiscally responsible. government currently conducting a review of On the other hand we have the Labor Party, family tax benefit rules? Who is conducting who have recently announced their untar- this review? Can the minister confirm the geted $1.9 billion-dollar package that is un- Prime Minister’s public statement that it is funded. Whilst only retaining a number of the Department of the Prime Minister and our measures, they have provided no real Cabinet that has taken this policy area out of incentives to get doctors into areas of work the hands of her department? Can the minis- force shortage. They have provided a very ter explain why this review has not been en- expensive package which, as I said, is un- trusted to her own department, given her re- funded. sponsibility for the payment? How should There are a number of taxes and rebates the Prime Minister’s confirmation that his we know they have indicated that they will department is undertaking a review be con- target to raise the funds. Will they increase sidered with evidence from her department’s the Medicare levy to fund their proposal? officers at budget estimates hearings that They have indicated on more than several ‘change is not being contemplated’? occasions that this is a proposal worth con- Senator VANSTONE—I thank the sena- sidering—it depends on who is at the helm at tor for his question. I will not repeat what I the time, and they get corrected from time to have said about the benefits of this system, time by Mr Crean. Let me state that, for each which pays $2 billion extra to families. half of a percentage point rise in the 1.5 per Senator Carr—What about the review? cent levy, a family with a household income You’ve got to get to the question! of $50,000 faces an extra tax burden of $250 a year. If they wind back the 30 per cent pri- Senator VANSTONE—Just loosen your vate health insurance rebate, it will result in a jocks, Senator. I am answering a question tax rise for nine million Australians covered from someone behind you, not you. Just give by private health insurance. The Labor Party him a chance to listen to his answer. He has stated that it has the 30 per cent rebate asked the question. I believe him to be genu- under review. Abolishing the rebate will cost ine. I believe he is interested in the answer. If between $750 and $850 per year for a family you will just pipe down, I will be able to give

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11643 him the answer. Senator Hogg, you asked by the Prime Minister when his favourite about a review and referred to some state- broadcaster describes the minister as arro- ments made in estimates about no change gant and dismissive? being contemplated. Let me have a look at Senator VANSTONE—Senator, your those because I will be able to see the con- question provides me with an opportunity text in which someone gave you that answer. that I will decline, other than to say that I It has been clearly understood for a very was not aware that the Labor Party took long time that the government is looking at character references from Alan Jones. I can work and family pressures. Of course, in assure you that I will never be applying for a looking at work and family pressures we will job where I seek one from him. be looking at all family payments. It is in the Women: Domestic Violence context of work and family that any aspects Senator STOTT DESPOJA (2.24 touching families—which would include p.m.)—My question is also addressed to the family tax benefit A and B—are being Minister for Family and Community Ser- looked at by a task force which is being vices and the Minister Assisting the Prime chaired by PM&C and which includes my Minister for the Status of Women, Senator department, DEWR and some others. There Vanstone. Is the minister aware of the 10 is no big news here. There is a task force June edition of the Bulletin which profiles looking at work and family. It is an interde- the high level of domestic violence in Aus- partmental task force. It is chaired by Prime tralia? Are she and the government also Minister and Cabinet— aware of the follow-up edition in which the Senator Jacinta Collins—But your own Bulletin printed an open letter to the minister, officers told us! entitled ‘Shame on you, Senator’, where they Senator VANSTONE—Senator, I do not discussed the government’s decision to take know what you sold before you came in $10.1 million out of the domestic violence here, but the voice matches one particular prevention budget and put it into fridge mag- occupation. Senator Hogg, that is the answer net production? Is the government aware that to your question. this has been described as an ‘absurdity’ by Senator HOGG—Mr President, in view the Bulletin, which says: of that answer, I have a supplementary ques- How a government that claims to care about this tion. Is the minister aware of comments by issue could even contemplate underspending on Alan Jones on 4 June 2003 about the minis- domestic violence is beyond explanation. ter’s responsiveness on portfolio issues? He Can the minister give us an explanation for said: that decision in the budget and also give the Well there’s no point—I can tell you—talking to Senate an assurance that that $10 million will Amanda Vanstone. Every time I write to her you be put back into the budget? get eventually an arrogant and dismissive reply, Senator VANSTONE—I thank the sena- which I have to say I return with an equally arro- tor for the question because it gives me the gant and dismissive reply. She is a complete opportunity to address some misconceptions waste of time, Amanda Vanstone, and a person with her lack of sensitivity towards these issues repeated by the Bulletin—whether they cre- shouldn’t be in this important Portfolio. ated them or not, I cannot say; others in this place may have had a hand in that. Let me Is this the real reason further review of the make one thing clear: there are no services family payments debacle has been taken over for women suffering from the effects of do-

CHAMBER 11644 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 mestic violence that are in any way affected happened and we have not been able to pre- by the PADV funding. PADV is a Common- vent it. The Commonwealth has had a very wealth initiative of $50 million to find better significant increase in its last SAAP agree- ways of preventing and responding to do- ment with the states, an increase which I note mestic violence. We committed $50 million has not been matched by one single state. and we will spend $50 million. The senator Senator STOTT DESPOJA—Mr Presi- asked me: can I confirm that this money will dent, I ask a supplementary question. I thank be put back? If the senator was a genius at the minister for her answer, and I seek clari- looking at budget statements, I think she fication. The minister’s answer implied that would be able to see that that is the case and the $10 million that was claimed to have that that is there. She nods. I do not know been underspent is in fact being spent as part whether she is acknowledging that she sort of that $50 million program. Could the min- of implied she could not read the budget pa- ister advise the Senate: is it the case that that pers but now understands that it is there. In $10 million will be used as part of the do- any event, the bottom line is this: the $50 mestic violence prevention program and that million was committed, and the $50 million the overall budget will not be diminished by will be spent. the $10 million as a consequence of the With respect to the Bulletin, I would have budget changes? Will the senator give an thought a magazine of that standing would assurance to the Senate that any further pro- have known the facts in the first place and grams will be implemented fully and that all certainly would have bothered to check them funds that are allocated towards those pro- so they did not create a fundamental misun- grams will be spent accordingly? derstanding. The misunderstanding is this: Senator VANSTONE—I thank you, services to women who have suffered from Senator. My advice is that this is clear in the domestic violence are paid for by the states. budget papers. If you have missed it, I am It is a state criminal offence to beat someone sorry. I will get some advice as to how clear up behind closed doors, and the states deal it is, but in any event, to save you the bother with it. The Commonwealth some time ago of going to the budget papers or just in case said, ‘We will help you find new and innova- it is not clear in the budget papers, let me tive ways of dealing with this. That money is repeat what I have said to you and the an- not for recurrent funding of services but swer I gave you a minute ago—and that was: rather to find these new and innovative ways $50 million has been committed and $50 of dealing with and preventing domestic vio- million will be spent. But let me also make lence.’ As to the spending on those recurrent clear to you that I have a commitment to this services, I might point out—and I would issue that goes well beyond simply saying, have pointed this out to the Bulletin if they ‘We have spent this money.’ I will not sign had bothered to ring and make some inquir- off on projects if I do not think they are go- ies to get their facts right—that the Com- ing to deliver appropriate outcomes. I would monwealth does of course assist the states in rather defer the spending of the money and some of the funding for domestic violence, get a better project and get a better outcome namely through funding for SAAP, the Sup- for the money than say, ‘Quickly, let’s spend ported Accommodation Assistance Program. the money this year.’ We made a $50 million That provides shelters, which of course as commitment and we will spend it, as I said in you know, Senator, are a much-needed re- my answer. But you can be sure of this: we sponse to domestic violence once it has sadly

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11645 will be spending it on projects that I believe The Government has recently been advised that are worth spending it on. (Time expired) audit activity by the Australian Tax Office has revealed that there appears to be confusion or Environment: Great Barrier Reef Marine misunderstanding about whether the cost of the Park Authority EMC should form part of the GST supply in tour- Senator McLUCAS (2.30 p.m.)—My ism operators’ ticket prices … question is to Senator Coonan, the Minister It would appear that different approaches for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer. Does may have been used by various operators in the minister recall her media release of 6 the industry and, considering that significant June 2003, or 11 days ago, in relation to the unpaid GST liabilities may have accrued, the Howard government’s broken promise made government is seeking urgent meetings, as I in June 2000 to marine tourism operators that said in my press release, with representatives it would not collect the GST on the environ- of the industry and the ATO to determine the mental management charge, or reef tax? extent and indeed the impact of any confu- Didn’t this media release state: sion. As I said in my press release, the gov- The Government has recently been advised that ernment will work quickly with the industry audit activity by the Australian Tax Office has to gain an appreciation of the extent of any revealed that there appears to be confusion or problem and will look at what options may misunderstanding about whether the cost of the be available to determine an appropriate way EMC should form part of the GST supply in tour- forward. It is an example of the government ism operators’ ticket prices. listening to the concerns that are brought to Can the minister now confirm that she had it, not ignoring them but trying to gain an representations made to her on behalf of appreciation of where some confusion may Adrenalin Dive from Townsville on 27 Au- have existed in the application of the law. gust and 10 September 2002, or some 10 There has been a significant transition time months ago, in relation to the application of from the GST but the government does un- the GST on the reef tax? How then can the derstand that occasionally these matters may minister say that she was only recently ad- not be fully understood and may not be ap- vised of the problem, and what is the Minis- preciated and that it is appropriate that the ter for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer do- government consults with the industry so ing to assure marine park tourism operators that these confusions can be cleared up and a that they will not have to pay this tax on a determination made about an appropriate tax? way forward. Senator COONAN—The EMC is not Senator McLUCAS—Mr President, I ask subject to GST when paid by the tourism a supplementary question. Doesn’t the minis- operators. The government agreed that it ter’s media release also say: would make a determination under division Senator Coonan said that the Government will 81 of the GST act which exempts various work quickly with the industry to gain an appre- Australian taxes, fees and charges from GST. ciation of the extent of any problem … The EMC is listed on the division 81 deter- Why has it taken so long for this minister to mination. This means that GST does not ap- gain an appreciation of the problem when the ply to the EMC when it is paid by the opera- industry has been telling her of this for over tors to the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park 10 months? Why hasn’t the minister deliv- Authority. However, as I indicated in my ered on the Howard government’s promise to press release of 6 June 2003:

CHAMBER 11646 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 stop the tax office collecting the GST on the tional Stem Cell Centre Ltd, the NSCC, and reef tax? includes the directors, officers, employees, Senator COONAN—The government agents and subcontractors of this centre insti- has listened to these concerns that have very tution where that is relevant. So the NSCC is recently—I think about a week ago—been a not-for-profit company limited by guaran- brought to my attention; it was when I issued tee which is governed by the Corporations a press release. I think I have known about Act. The NSCC will enter into agreements this matter for about a week, and there is a with participating organisations and an affili- meeting later this week to determine the ated commercial entity of the NSCC in order strategy to take the matter forward. It is en- to carry out the NSCC’s obligations under tirely appropriate that we should do this and the deed executed with the Commonwealth. indeed it is very rare that you get a turn- That recently signed deed of agreement re- around of that kind of speed: within one quired the company to have appropriate pri- week that industry identifies an issue, there vate insurance to protect itself, and I am ad- is a press release and a strategy devised to vised that National Stem Cell Centre Ltd, deal with the problem. I cannot imagine that which operates and has responsibility for the Senator McLucas, when she thinks about it Biotechnology Centre of Excellence, is a for more than a moment, could have any company in its own right and that the Com- criticism of that. monwealth has absolutely no liability for its activities. Science: Stem Cell Research Senator MURPHY—Mr President, I ask Senator MURPHY (2.35 p.m.)—My a supplementary question. Given the Com- question is to Senator Minchin, the Minister monwealth has the right, as I understand it, representing the Minister for Industry, Tour- to approve or disapprove commercialisation ism and Resources, and it relates to the risk arrangements, why wouldn’t the Common- management regimes of and for the National wealth have some legal responsibility if the Stem Cell Centre which was established last NSCC were sued? year. Given that taxpayers have invested some $43½ million in this centre, can the Senator MINCHIN—I do not know that minister inform the Senate whether or not the I can add much more to what I have said. Commonwealth has any legal obligations in The Commonwealth has executed this deed respect of any dispute that may arise between of agreement with the National Stem Cell the NSCC and participating organisations or Centre to operate the Biotechnology Centre third parties over intellectual property or the of Excellence and the liability, as I am ad- commercialisation of intellectual property or vised, under the deed of agreement does rest research outcomes? with National Stem Cell Centre Ltd. If there is any alteration to that in relation to your Senator MINCHIN—The Common- question, I will advise you as soon as I can. wealth and the National Stem Cell Centre, But I am confident that there is no liability the NSCC, did sign a deed of agreement es- on the Commonwealth; it rests with the tablishing the Biotechnology Centre of Ex- NSCC under the deed. cellence on 30 May this year. Under that executed deed of agreement, the centre is Budget: Superannuation defined as the Biotechnology Centre of Ex- Senator SHERRY (2.37 p.m.)—My cellence. The centre will be operated by the question is to the Assistant Treasurer and centre institution, which is defined as Na- Minister for Revenue, Senator Coonan. Can

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11647 the Assistant Treasurer confirm that the tural and Indigenous Affairs, to identify budget papers contain a new revenue meas- those who otherwise may be eligible to con- ure of $325 million over four years from de- tact them so that they may be made aware of parting nonresidents voluntarily transferring this measure. At the moment, it is not en- their superannuation back to their home tirely clear just how easy it will be to identify country? Can the Assistant Treasurer confirm those who have already departed. that the Taxation Office is desperately The measures that are in place will cer- searching the world to attempt to find over tainly enable those who can be identified to one million former visitors to Australia, such make the claim in respect of their super once as students, backpackers and various profes- they have departed permanently. It is an ini- sionals to encourage them to transfer their tiative which is to be commended because superannuation so that the tax office can col- there is really little point in having those who lect up to 40 per cent tax? Just five weeks do not need to save for their retirement in after the budget was handed down, can the this country having their funds tied up here, minister confirm that this tax revenue will be because when they have departed Australia collected? permanently they incur fees, charges and Senator COONAN—The announcement administrative costs to retain those moneys in the government’s superannuation election here. So it is a sensible measure to enable statement, A Better Superannuation System, those who are departing permanently to be allows persons from 1 July 2002 who have able to access their superannuation and the entered Australia on an eligible temporary framework will be carefully monitored so visa to access superannuation benefits upon that the best possible efforts will be made to permanent departure. The particular eligible identify those who can claim. temporary visas are listed in the Superannua- Senator SHERRY—Mr President, I ask a tion Industry (Supervision) Regulations and supplementary question. I note the minister the Retirement Savings Account Regulations. said that it is not entirely clear and she could The measure does not extend to departing not confirm that the tax revenue will be col- Australian citizens or permanent residents lected. Given that Treasury has admitted in because, although these individuals may Senate estimates that its estimated take-up leave the country, they retain the option of rate of 80 per cent will need to be down- retiring in Australia and accessing the age graded—it might be somewhat difficult to pension. Similarly, the measure is not in- contact one million visitors when you do not tended to apply to New Zealand citizens have their addresses—possibly to 20 per working in Australia as they also have the cent. How does the government propose to option of retiring here and accessing the age make up the resulting shortfall of some $245 pension. million in funding its superannuation poli- The situation is that there certainly is pro- cies? vision in the budget to deal with this measure Senator Kemp—We have policies, Nick, and to allow those departing Australia per- and you haven’t. How about your shortfall in manently, in the categories that I have men- funding? You have got no policy. tioned, to access their superannuation. In Senator COONAN—As usual, Senator fact, as Senator Sherry identified in esti- Sherry pre-empts an outcome without know- mates, there have been various efforts and ing the facts and without having the vaguest initiatives undertaken, particularly by the idea of the basis on which he puts his ques- Department of Immigration and Multicul-

CHAMBER 11648 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 tion. As Senator Kemp reminds us, at least Forestry and Conservation. There are also we have some superannuation policies. Sena- nine state and territory ministers on the tor Sherry’s blank piece of paper remains council—all Labor of course—and they are obstinately blank, just like most of those on there because the states are the ones with the other side when it comes to superannua- responsibility and jurisdiction to allocate tion. Senator Sherry is worried about reve- water resources. nue. What he could do is pass the reduction There are well documented concerns with in the surcharge so that those who are bur- the Murray-Darling Basin which have been dened unfairly in respect of superannuation scientifically assessed over many years, and can in fact access a measure that will give they are highlighted as well by a very sig- them some tax benefits. nificant community consultation process that Senator Sherry—Mr President, I raise a has been initiated by the ministerial council. point of order on relevance. My question At our last meeting in May, the council en- went to the issue of whether or not the minis- dorsed the Living Murray initiative and we ter believes that the budget paper revenue agreed that at our November meeting we estimates to collect this tax from overseas would consider a first-step decision which departing residents will in fact be collected. would mean no loss to existing water users She is not answering the question. Rele- but would get some environmental flows into vance! the river and would consider the socioeco- The PRESIDENT—You know the an- nomic impacts of some possible solutions. swer to that as well as I do, Senator Sherry. But questions of water allocation are not There is no point of order. those that the Commonwealth can address; they are questions that really have to be ad- Environment: Murray-Darling River dressed by the states. System I am asked whether I am aware of any al- Senator FERRIS (2.43 p.m.)—My ques- ternatives. I did hear the current Leader of tion is to the Minister for Fisheries, Forestry the Opposition, Mr Crean, make a bit of a and Conservation, Senator Ian Macdonald. statement after the budget. He came up with Would the minister outline to the Senate re- a policy for the Murray-Darling. It appears cent steps that the Howard government has that this issue eventually came to his atten- taken to address water and environmental tion after he visited the Murray mouth, ap- issues in the Murray-Darling Basin, and is parently for the very first time ever. With this the minister aware of any alternative policy new-found interest in the Murray-Darling he approaches? announced a new deal. He is going to restore Senator IAN MACDONALD—Senator enough environmental flow to keep the Ferris is a South Australian and I know she mouth open—not enough flow, obviously, to has a very keen interest in the Murray- address the other critical issues of the Darling River system. She will know that the Murray-Darling Basin, but he will find Murray-Darling Basin Commission was enough to keep the mouth open. There is not formed 100 years ago to address concerns a word about where he is going to get it about the river system. It is currently led by a from, not a word on how he is going to get ministerial council consisting of three federal the state Labor governments to restrict allo- ministers—Mr Truss is chairman; Dr Kemp, cations to find the water that he is going to as the Minister for the Environment and use to keep the mouth open, and not a men- Heritage; and me, as Minister for Fisheries, tion, I might add, of the huge socioeconomic

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11649 implications which can destroy farms and government believes that they should just communities. stop whingeing about the collapse of bulk- How is Mr Crean going to do this? Have a billing? look at his speech in reply to the budget. He Senator PATTERSON—The issue of does have a simple solution. He is going to Medicare, particularly primary health care do it by preventing drought. That is how he delivery, has concerned me since I became is going to do it. He is going to prevent health minister. As I said earlier in answer to droughts in the future. I know he can pluck a question from Senator Eggleston, when I roosters, as Senator Conroy can well attest, looked very closely at the data I was very but how is he going to prevent droughts? He concerned about the inequity of access and is going to do that by ratifying a treaty—by affordability for people on very low incomes, signing a bit of paper. By signing that paper particularly people who had health care he is going to stop all droughts in the future. cards. Labor had never cared about that— Never mind the disadvantage to Australian they had done nothing about it. We inherited, industry or workers’ jobs. I might add that it as I have said over and again in this chamber, will not have any environmental impact, be- a maldistribution of general practitioners— cause the big greenhouse emitters—the far too many in the city, where we had very USA, Russia, China and India—are not re- high bulk-billing rates, and too few in the stricted by this treaty. But he is going to do it country and outer metropolitan areas. Bulk- by stopping drought and by throwing in $150 billing rates were very much reflected by the million. He does not say what that is for or number of doctors in those areas. Labor where it comes from. As the respected radio never cared about it. I will not be so unkind commentator and former Labor environment as to say that that they did not care about it in minister, Graham Richardson, said about this rural areas because they have fewer constitu- proposal: ents there, but senators have a responsibility You are not going to save the Murray with $150 to constituents in rural areas. million, that’s for sure. It needs a hell of a lot I found that there were people who had more than that but mostly it needs state govern- very low incomes who had never seen the ments to change water policy and federal gov- likes of a bulk-billing doctor. It did not seem ernments just can’t do that. fair to me that someone on our salaries or on If that is what passes for Labor policy, bring my salary could be bulk-billed in downtown back Kim Beazley. (Time expired) Camberwell and that people in rural centres Medicare: Bulk-Billing had never ever seen a bulk-billing doctor. We Senator HUTCHINS (2.48 p.m.)—Is the introduced legislation to increase the likeli- minister aware of comments recently made hood of people on health care cards being by the member for Parramatta that Austra- bulk-billed by introducing targeted incen- lians forced to pay for their own health care tives to increase the likelihood of people on were ‘whingers’ who made him want to health care cards being bulk-billed. We have throw up? Isn’t it the case that the Parliamen- done an assessment which shows that the tary Secretary for Family and Community vast majority of doctors, if they were to sign Services has publicly confirmed, firstly, that up to the package, would be better off. under the government’s unfair Medicare I am not going to make a comment about package Australian families will pay more people’s views about paying for health. We for seeing a doctor, and, secondly, that the have one of the best health systems in the

CHAMBER 11650 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 world. For example, under the Pharmaceuti- ernment? Why won’t the government admit cal Benefits Scheme people with a health what health experts, doctors and many health care card pay $3.70 for the most commonly patients already know: that its proposed prescribed medications which cost $80 per ‘swipe card’ arrangement will make it possi- person per month. We have just introduced ble for doctors to charge copayments for pa- onto the PBS a medication that costs about tients whom they currently bulk-bill and eas- $26,000 per person per year. That is the level ier for doctors to increase their existing fees of assistance that people are getting under for everyone else? our health scheme—paying $3.70 on a health Senator PATTERSON—Senator Hut- care card and paying $23.10 if they are not chins has been very busy looking after issues until they reach the safety net. relating to leadership in his party, but he has It is a very generous scheme. But it will be not been out in the community to find out very vulnerable if we do not care for it and what the community actually thinks. If he look after it and if we do not make sure that were to go out into the community and talk people understand the huge benefits that they to people whose doctors choose not to bulk- receive from the taxpayer through the MBS bill them—and there have always been, since rebate for general practitioners’ services, the inception of Medicare, doctors who through the MBS rebate for specialist ser- choose not to bulk-bill all of their patients, vices, through the PBS and through the $42 some of their patients, a majority of their billion we are offering the states for their patients or only those patients who have republic hospitals. It is an enormous contribu- cently come to their practice—and if he were tion to health from the public purse. Austra- to go to a Medicare office and talk to the lians understand and appreciate it, but we all people standing waiting to get their Medicare have to understand that it is going up at a rebate, they would say to him: ‘Why do I significant rate, particularly the PBS. I call have to do this? Why do I have to wait for on the Senate to reconsider the legislation my Medicare rebate in the mail if I choose to before the chamber and to look at the modest send it in by post? Why do I have to go down increase in the Pharmaceutical Benefits to the Medicare office for my rebate?’ Sena- Scheme to ensure that all our health sys- tor Hutchins and those on the other side have tem—across Medicare, the PBS, general been so busy and so preoccupied with their practice, specialists and public hospitals—is leadership that they have failed to go out and affordable. listen to what people are saying. That is what Senator HUTCHINS—Mr President, I they are saying, and they will remind them ask a supplementary question. Is the Minister that they do not want to have to go to a for Health and Ageing aware that the busi- Medicare office to get their rebate. ness manager of a Melbourne general prac- Social Welfare: Gambling tice has endorsed the government’s Medicare Senator ALLISON (2.54 p.m.)—My package for the reason that ‘the key advan- question is to the Assistant Treasurer. Can tage of the coalition plan was that participat- the Assistant Treasurer explain why the ing practices could offset the cost of bulk- Commonwealth Grants Commission effec- billing concessional patients by charging tively encourages the WA and the ACT gov- other patients extra’? Is not this expert con- ernments to increase the revenue they raise firmation of what the member for Parramatta from gambling? Does this not make a mock- was saying: that most families will pay more ery of the Prime Minister’s promise in 1999 for medical services under the Howard gov-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11651 that the Commonwealth would lead the way mates. I do not know whether the honourable in solving problem gambling? Why won’t senator has sat down—and he should have— the government offer the state grants com- and read all those estimates questions: Sena- missions incentives to reduce their reliance tor McLucas’s long questions and Senator on gambling revenue? Nettle’s long questions. They will be very Senator COONAN—Thank you, Senator entertaining for him to read when he has Allison, for the question. It is not my portfo- nothing to do on a long plane journey. I pre- lio. sume he has not read them. I do not think he was there and I did not expect him to be Senator ALLISON—Mr President, I ask there because he is not a member of that a supplementary question. Can the Assistant committee. Treasurer advise which department then takes care of the Commonwealth Grants We did give doctors funding for IT. Hon- Commission matters? It is my understanding ourable senators might have read this morn- it is Treasury. ing in the IT section of the Australian—it might have been the Age—that general prac- Senator COONAN—It is Senator titioners are further ahead than most other Minchin’s portfolio. sections of the health care industry in work- Senator Allison—Senator Minchin? ing towards being computerised. It is impor- The PRESIDENT—Senator Allison, I do tant to have computerised information in a not think you can redirect your question. general practice, and we are ensuring that Health: General Practitioners with our practice incentive payments which go only to doctors who have been accredited Senator MARSHALL (2.55 p.m.)—My as practice incentive payment general practi- question is to Senator Patterson, the Minister tioners. That means they have to go through for Health and Ageing. Can the minister con- an accreditation process and be involved in firm that in the last week of May the gov- delivering better health outcomes in terms of ernment made an extraordinary payment to- asthma programs and mental health pro- talling $30 million to 4,600 general practi- grams, which the Labor Party never cared tioners throughout Australia with no strings about. They never funded doctors to deliver attached—an average payment of $6,800 for outcomes for people to manage chronic dis- each general practice? Is it not the case that, eases like diabetes, asthma and mental while the government claims that this money health. The practitioners who have taken up is to assist doctors to upgrade their patient the Practice Incentive Program do things like records, there will be no requirement for recalling patients for pap smears or for extra doctors to use the money to improve patient visits for their asthma programs. This money records, no accountability or acquittal for came out of the PIP program and it was to this $30 million and no mechanism by which assist doctors in upgrading, entering or im- the money will have to be repaid to the gov- proving their data. There will be further ernment if the upgrading of patient records is funding for which they will be required to not done? Isn’t the complete lack of account- give evidence that they have used that fund- ability for this end-of-financial-year gift to ing and how they are going to use the future doctors the reason that some doctors have funding. described the payment as ‘money for jam’? The funding was to ensure that we have Senator PATTERSON—We went doctors as up to date as possible to reduce through this issue quite extensively in esti- red tape. That is an issue that they have been

CHAMBER 11652 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 concerned about. We now have a task force patients. As health minister, I want to assist in my department, with various PM&C rep- them to do that—rather than filling out resentatives, to reduce red tape. The doctors forms—to be able to be with their patients argue that, as these programs have devel- and have practices whereby they can recall oped, they have increased their administra- their patients who are due for checks on dia- tive load. This will be reduced the more that betes or for cervical screening and all the they are computerised. In fact, I went to a other things that general practices ought to practice recently on the North Coast of New be doing in terms of improving health out- South Wales. The young doctor there has comes for Australians. computerised her whole practice and also the Senator Hill—Mr President, I ask that Practice Incentive Program. She said that she further questions be placed on the Notice does not see that she has a red tape problem. Paper. So we need to simplify the Practice Incentive QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: Program and make sure general practitioners ADDITIONAL ANSWERS are as up to date as possible with their IT, because we will then be able to deliver better Immigration: Ministerial Discretion primary health care and better outcomes. Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— That is what we are interested in. The sort of Minister for Justice and Customs) (3.01 thing the Labor Party are focusing on is the p.m.)—Yesterday I took a question on notice level of bulk-billing and that seems to be the from Senator Wong in relation to questions only issue that they have in their health pol- relating to the minister for immigration. I icy. now have that information and I seek leave Senator MARSHALL—Mr President, I to table it as well as to incorporate the an- ask a supplementary question. Minister, isn’t swer in Hansard. it the case that the $30 million payment to Leave granted. doctors was made indiscriminately to all reg- The answer read as follows— istered practices, whether or not the practice Mr Hand—81 cases. already had fully computerised records or, in fact, had no other electronic records at all? Senator Bolkus—311 cases. Isn’t it also the case that, if the government Mr Ruddock—1751 cases as at 30 April had not rushed to splurge this $30 million of 2003, according to current departmental records. taxpayers’ money before the end of this financial year, the money could have been There are no data available for the period spent on other health priorities? Would this that Senator Ray was the responsible minister. money not have been better spent paying for the equivalent of 1.2 million bulk-billed GP Agriculture: Sugar Industry consultations? Senator IAN MACDONALD (Queen- Senator PATTERSON—As I indicated, sland—Minister for Fisheries, Forestry and this money was to assist practices that Conservation) (3.01 p.m.)—Yesterday Sena- needed to get further up to date, to reward tor Bishop asked me a question about the practices that got up to date and also to en- sugar industry reform program and excep- sure that we have general practice as highly tional circumstances. I referred that to Mr ITed and as highly up to date in terms of Truss and I can advise that, when assessing their computerisation as possible because it applications for the sugar industry reform assists them in spending more time with their program and exceptional circumstances re-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11653 lief, Centrelink takes all forms of income, Matt Price from the Australian to add to the including DVA pensions, into account when situation that the coalition was trying to fos- determining rates of payment. I should add ter in its changes to both health and educa- that veterans can access business support tion. elements of the exceptional circumstances Mr Cameron said that baby boomers made package and also interest rate subsidies of- him sick; they made him want to throw up. fered under the sugar industry reform pack- He said he was prepared to risk unpopularity age. in his electorate because of these baby For exceptional circumstances, veterans boomers who think they can get a free ride in can access the interim interest rate relief and both education and health. He said—I do not also, when an area is declared in full EC, know for what reason; maybe he is compet- they can access interest rate subsidies of up ing for some sort of vacancy that may occur to $100,000 per year over two years. Under in the government’s front bench—this made the sugar industry reform package, veterans him absolutely throw up. I will tell you what are entitled to access interest rate subsidies made people in his electorate throw up: the on loans of up to $50,000 to meet expenses fact that he decided to go and broadcast this incurred in the planting of sugar cane. Fur- in the Australian. For all I know, he was try- ther advice is available from Centrelink on ing to impress some sort of intelligentsia, but 1800 050 585. In relation to the supplemen- I am sure he did not think people in Par- tary question, Centrelink does not maintain ramatta read the Australian. Unfortunately statistics for pensions that may contribute to for him, the people who go and visit Dr Greg rejection of an application or reduction of Lahood at the Oaklands general practice in assistance. Parramatta do. The people who queue up to QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE: see Dr Lahood on occasion to be treated for TAKE NOTE OF ANSWERS their medical problems do. Medicare: Bulk-Billing One thing about Dr Lahood that you do not know about, Mr Deputy President, is Senator HUTCHINS (New South Wales) this: Dr Lahood is a bulk-biller and is Mr (3.03 p.m.)—I move: Cameron’s family doctor. There is our Rosco That the Senate take note of the answer given queuing up, like everybody else who needs by the Minister for Health and Ageing (Senator to be attended by a doctor, with his Medicare Patterson) to a question without notice asked by Senator Hutchins today relating to Medicare and card, getting it flashed over the counter. That the decline in the rate of bulk billing. is our parliamentary secretary for family and community services. That is our parliamen- This afternoon I asked the Minister for tary secretary who said baby boomers make Health and Ageing a question in relation to him want to throw up. That is the man we Medicare and bulk-billing. I asked, in par- have identified today as one of the hypocrites ticular, a question in reference to a statement that we see all too often— made by the member for Parramatta, Mr Ross Cameron, who is also the Parliamentary The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—I think Secretary to the Minister for Family and you need to withdraw that, Senator Hutchins. Community Services. In May of this year, Senator HUTCHINS—I will withdraw for some unknown reason, Mr Cameron de- ‘hypocrite’, Mr Deputy President. Scroung- cided he needed his profile raised a little bit ers like Mr Cameron, the member for Par- and he went and, no doubt, sought out Mr ramatta, think they can say these comments

CHAMBER 11654 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 in the Australian and not have constituents in ramatta, Mr Ross Cameron, who is a decent, Parramatta let me know about it. You would honest, hardworking and very effective be surprised, Mr Deputy President, at the member of this government. Not only that, I number of men and women—who, like Mr believe that some of Senator Hutchins’s Cameron, use Dr Lahood as their general words were unparliamentary, Mr Deputy practitioner and who go to him because he is President, particularly the word ‘scrounger’. a bulk-biller—and how incensed and out- I did not take a point of order at the time be- raged they were when they saw Mr Cam- cause I knew I would have the opportunity to eron’s comments. Because Mr Cameron said respond. I think the words were totally inap- people like them make him throw up—and propriate and I think an apology should be there he is, queuing up like everybody else to offered to the member for Parramatta, Ross get free medical care. But it does not end Cameron. there. If you look at Mr Cameron’s contribu- Senator Hutchins, you highlighted the fact tion to the parliamentary diaries and biogra- that, of his own free will, Mr Cameron paid phies, you will see Mr Cameron, who said that one-year HECS fee. He did that because people who go after free health and educa- of his own views that it would be in the best tion make him throw up, is a graduate of the interests of this nation and in the public in- University of Sydney in both economics and terest, so I commend him for that. He is a law. man who stands up for an incentive approach Let me tell you about Mr Cameron, who is and smaller government and lower taxes, to the manor born. He does not come from unlike those on the other side. In fact, Sena- any poor or struggling background; he is tor Hutchins is acting like a wounded bull well and truly to the manor born, like a num- this afternoon because he clearly backed the ber of our colleagues on the other side. Mr wrong horse yesterday, and that has shown Cameron paid one year’s HECS for his dual up in his salacious allegations against the degrees, which we estimate would have cost Hon. Ross Cameron, the federal member for about $100,000. He paid for one year—the Parramatta. largesse of this man, who is dripping in If you truly believe the wild allegations money and who was born to it! Let me tell made by the Labor Party and some in the you why he did that. He felt a bit of shame media with respect to this government’s po- about the hundred grand that he had ripped sition on bulk-billing, you will think that we out of the system so he donated $2,000 to the have actually cut funding to Medicare. What education department to support his convic- nonsense. Those opposite know it is non- tion that students should pay for their educa- sense because it is on the record that the pro- tion. So here we have this scrounger who not posal is for a $917 million injection into only goes to the bulk-billers in his own elec- bulk-billing and Medicare and to ensure torate but also has bludged on the system to there are more GPs in rural and regional have his education paid for—free. (Time ex- Australia. That is the condemnation that will pired) be on their own heads. It is totally inappro- Senator BARNETT (Tasmania) (3.08 priate to say these things when they know p.m.)—I stand to respond to this motion to the facts. I say ‘res ipsa loquitur’—the facts take note of answers, and I refute categori- speak for themselves: a proposal to increase cally and in total the words and allegations funding by nearly a billion dollars. But ac- thrown at a member of the House of Repre- cording to the Labor Party and those others sentatives, the federal member for Par- opposite who oppose this proposal we are

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11655 cutting or slashing funding to Medicare and tive and the new medical places at the Uni- bulk-billing. versity of Tasmania. Of course, Western Aus- With respect to the Medicare rebate, let us tralian and Queensland universities are fal- have a look at the record since 1996 and then ling over themselves with delight because of at the record under Labor. Under the coali- the new services being offered in those tion government, the Medicare rebate for a states. (Time expired). standard consultation has increased by $4.20, Senator WEBBER (Western Australia) or 20 per cent. But what about under Labor? (3.13 p.m.)—I rise to contribute to this mo- In the last six years of the Labor government tion to take note of answers. It is often the the Medicare rebate for a standard consulta- case in this place that we have quite a pro- tion rose by only $1.70, or less than nine per tracted debate about the delivery of health cent. Those on the other side were talking care services because it is one of the funda- about hypocrisy; they should take some of mental differences between our side of poli- that medicine. We stand on our record of a tics and those opposite. When we engage in 20 per cent increase compared with Labor’s this debate, we often have the minister prat- nine per cent. tle on about how the federal government are Remember that in Australia today seven paying their way and how they are doing this out of 10 services to the GP are still bulk- fantastic job and the problem is that the billed. All Australians visit their GPs, to the states do not commit enough money, that tune of almost $2.8 billion last calendar year. they underspend and that they are cutting I want to highlight the fact that we are trying spending. to get GP and medical services into rural and Have I got news for the minister: over the regional areas. Under this package, in places past three years in my home state of Western like Ross, Oatlands, Queenstown and St Hel- Australia, the Western Australian state gov- ens, in Tasmania, we are giving $22,000 ex- ernment has increased funding to the health tra every year to those GPs who sign up. budget by an average of seven per cent per That is vital for those rural and regional ar- annum. That is an enormous real increase as eas to ensure that those health services are well as a numerical increase. In fact, in the provided. Why won’t Labor support it? In next financial year Western Australia will towns like Launceston, Burnie and Devon- increase its health budget by over 9.5 per port $18,500 is being provided to those GPs cent. These are all figures that are on the who sign up. Come on, let’s get real; let’s get public record; yet the minister comes in here support for this package. With respect to in- and bleats about how she cannot get a com- creasing the number of doctors, 234 new mitment up-front from the states and about medical places have just been announced. I how they are going to fund the delivery of congratulate Senator Kay Patterson, the Min- health care services. This is at a time when ister for Health and Ageing, on that an- she is reducing her commitment to the deliv- nouncement. It is good news for Tasmania. ery of health care services and is placing We have an extra 21 places, bringing the to- added pressure on our Medicare system. tal up to 83 new medical places at the Uni- In the year 1999-2000, which is the latest versity of Tasmania. year for which data is available, the Com- I spoke to Professor Allan Carmichael monwealth spent $1,227 per person on health only last week about it. How pleased are services in Western Australia compared to they? They are very pleased with this initia- $1,370 per person nationally. It would seem

CHAMBER 11656 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 there is a bit of an underspend from the fed- to Western Australian universities compared eral government in my home state. If the to 148 places allocated to South Australia. Commonwealth had spent the national aver- South Australia, I do not need to remind you, age in Western Australia, then it would have is a much smaller size and has a much provided approximately $30 million more for smaller population than Western Australia. the delivery of health care services in that The minister with great fanfare announced year alone. Similarly, in 2001-02 Common- recently that Western Australia would be wealth expenditure in Western Australia un- allocated an additional 40 places in the new der the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, round—20 to the University of Western Aus- another scheme that everyone should be fa- tralia and 20 to the full fee private University miliar with, averaged $189 per Western Aus- of Notre Dame. An extra 40 places does not tralian compared to the national average of go anywhere near the number of doctors we $214 per person. So how is it that the minis- need to deliver health care services through- ter can keep coming in here saying that the out Western Australia. problem is always with the states, that they One of the other areas having a significant are not committed to the delivery of health impact on the delivery of health care services care services and that she is doing such a is the funding crisis in the area of aged care. fantastic job? In Western Australia the state government Add to that the decline in bulk-billing expects to pay for 29,030 bed days in the rates throughout Western Australia. Bulk- hospital system for care-awaiting-placement billing rates nationally have declined by patients this year. (Time expired) about 12 per cent. In Western Australia the Senator HUMPHRIES (Australian Capi- electorate that has been hardest hit with the tal Territory) (3.18 p.m.)—This debate is decline is the electorate of O’Connor where supposed to be about the answers of the Min- you are lucky to have access to GP services ister for Health and Ageing to questions anyway, never mind being able to find a doc- about the health care system, but so far it tor that bulk-bills. Add to that the difficulties seems to have been an opportunity, firstly, that people have in the electorate of Kalgoor- for Senator Hutchins to make a fairly vis- lie. If you go further north than the town of ceral attack on the member for Parramatta Geraldton, which is only a five-hour drive and, secondly, for Senator Webber to engage from Perth—so you can imagine there is a in some special pleading for Western Austra- huge distance to go after that—you will not lia. I would prefer that the Senate focused on find the delivery of GP or private health care the real issues inherent in the minister’s an- services anywhere. Every bit of the provision swers to questions today, which are the fu- of health care services is done by salaried ture funding of public hospitals in Australia doctors or through the public hospital sys- and the future of the Medicare system as a tem. way of Australians being able to access es- Another area of disadvantage that Western sential health services both from GPs and in Australians face at the hands of the Com- hospitals. monwealth government is in the allocation of What the government has announced in HECS based domestic medicine places—and recent weeks constitutes, I think, the most I am glad that Senator Barnett brought that significant platform of improvements and up. In the year 2000, for example, the Com- reforms that this parliament—certainly this monwealth government allocated only 125 country—has seen in a very long time. It has commencing undergraduate medicine places

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11657 been met characteristically on the part of the announced by the government as a very im- Labor Party by a complete wall of deception portant step in the right direction. and misinformation about what those I think that what the member for Par- changes represent. We have seen Labor ramatta was saying is that those who can claiming—and I have only this week in the afford to pay should and the government ACT seen literature from Labor members— should target its assistance to those who can- that under the government’s reforms bulk- not. The package the government has an- billing will be available only for concession nounced is doing precisely that. It is target- card holders. We all know that is not true. ing those people who are concession card The government is especially placing re- holders and providing them with the access sources at the disposal of doctors to encour- to GP services which they are not getting at age them to ensure that their concession card the moment. Let me remind members oppo- holders are universally bulk-billed. There is site that the decline in access to bulk-billing nothing in this package that affects the ca- doctors is not a feature of this government; it pacity of doctors to bulk-bill other patients has been a continuing feature since the earli- who come through their doors. Indeed, est days of the Medicare system. It has been measures like the simplification of claims going on for a number of years. Access to arrangements and the simplification of red bulk-billing doctors was declining during the tape associated with doctors’ practices will Hawke and Keating governments as well. mean that doctors have the capacity to bulk- What has this government done, not just bill more of their patients because it will be in this most recent announcement but before administratively easier to do so. that, to improve health outcomes for Austra- We heard the claim from Senator Webber lians? We have increased spending on Medi- that Senator Patterson is reducing our com- care by $2 billion, from $6 billion to $8 bil- mitment to the health system in the payments lion. We are investing $560 million in the to Western Australia. What absolute non- Rural Health Strategy to target the health of sense! The minister has announced $917 mil- rural and regional Australians. We have lion extra for Medicare in this country. How committed $80 million to an outer metropoli- is that a reduction in commitment to the tan program to encourage more GPs into health system? She has announced $10 bil- those areas. Around seven out of 10 of all GP lion extra for public hospitals in this country services are delivered at no cost to patients. with the quite reasonable caveat attached to Close to eight out of every 10 GP services to that spending that the states make some ef- patients aged 65 years and over are provided fort to match that funding in light of the fact at no cost to the patient. (Time expired). that we have seen in recent years a number Senator MARSHALL (Victoria) (3.23 of states take the opportunity of increased p.m.)—I also rise to speak on the motion to Commonwealth funding to withdraw or re- take note of answers given by the Minister duce their own funding to their own services. for Health and Ageing. This is a government Then they have the temerity to turn around up to its neck in bad judgments and bad poli- and blame the Commonwealth for the declin- cies when it comes to the health portfolio. As ing availability of services in the public hos- we have heard today, the government has pitals and in surgeries. Anybody who cares blown over $30 million by depositing an about the quality of health care in this coun- average payment of $6,800 into the bank try would have to see measures of the kind accounts of general practices registered for

CHAMBER 11658 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 the Practice Incentive Program, with nothing nomic and social policy. The government has required or expected of them in return. The failed to take into account when formulating government argues that this money is to be its package the likely inflationary effects of used to upgrade patient record systems so the policy. It is blindly proceeding in the that they are computerised. However, there is mere belief that fees will not rise, yet it has no mechanism at all by which the money failed to produce any evidence or facts to will have to be repaid if practices do not up- support that belief. grade their systems. Effectively, over $30 As has been revealed, no regulatory im- million has been handed out for nothing in pact statement has been prepared with re- return. This ‘no strings attached’ payment, as spect to the so-called A Fairer Medicare doctors have called it, is just money for jam. package. This is another disgrace, given that It is an absolute disgrace. the package is the most fundamental change While the government hands out untied to Medicare in decades. According to the grants to doctors, the nationwide rate of Treasury, the RIS process is intended to en- bulk-billing continues to decline. In the sure that a comprehensive assessment of all March quarter, the rate of bulk-billing by policy options and associated costs and bene- GPs fell a further 1.1 percentage points to fits is undertaken. The information is then reach a new low of 68.5 per cent. Since com- used to inform the decision making process. ing to office, the Howard government has In that regard, it provides a comprehensive presided over a system in which the rate of check list that outlines public policy decision bulk-billing by GPs has fallen by more than making best practice. Why would the gov- 12 per cent and the average cost of seeing a ernment fail to produce such a statement if it doctor who does not bulk-bill has risen by were satisfied the policy were financially and more than 55 per cent. Given these facts, $30 socially sound? I would suggest simply be- million in untied grants to doctors is an atro- cause it is not satisfied that that is the case. cious policy decision. $30 million would This government’s Medicare package is have been much better spent in funding over simply due to the Prime Minister’s funda- 1.2 million bulk-billing visits to the doctor. mental opposition to a universal health care This government has an awful track re- system. During the 1980s, Mr Howard la- cord on funding priorities, particularly when belled Medicare ‘a miserable, cruel fraud’, ‘a it comes to the health portfolio. It was re- scandal’, ‘a total and complete failure’, ‘a cently revealed that $140,000 was spent by quagmire’, ‘a total disaster’, ‘a financial the government on consultancy fees to invent monster’ and ‘a human nightmare’. He the Orwellian tag A Fairer Medicare and to threatened to ‘pull Medicare right apart’ and sell the package to a sceptical Australian to ‘get rid of the bulk-billing system’. Bulk- public. Those funds alone could have been billing, Mr Howard said, was an ‘absolute used to support more than 5,500 GP visits. rort’. The Howard government of 2003 is in For a government that prides itself on sup- the process of delivering on Mr Howard’s posed sound economic management, one can 1980s threats. take little heart from the facts I have just pre- In contrast, Labor’s $1.5 billion Medicare sented. Moreover, the government has shown plan will stem the catastrophic decline in scant regard for the financial impact of its bulk-billing and make it available for more Medicare package, and is proceeding with it Australians by immediately lifting the Medi- on the basis that it makes good ideological care patient rebate to 95 per cent of the sense, not on the basis that it is sound eco-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11659 scheduled fee for all bulk-billed consulta- One of the reasons that the Assistant Treas- tions. Labor would subsequently lift the urer was reluctant to answer my question is Medicare patient rebate for all bulk-billed that this government has done very little consultations to 100 per cent of the sched- about problem gambling. It is outrageous, uled fee. Labor would offer doctors powerful particularly given the Prime Minister’s financial incentives of up to $22,500 to meet promise in 1999 that the federal government bulk-billing targets which are realistic and would take the lead on problem gambling. achievable and would provide for more GPs We have a perfect vehicle through which to in the areas that need them and more nurses do that—that is, the Commonwealth Grants to assist GPs in their work. (Time expired) Commission—but there are no incentives Question agreed to. whatsoever for states to relieve themselves of revenue raised from gambling. There are Social Welfare: Gambling no incentives to encourage states like New Senator ALLISON (Victoria) (3.28 South Wales and Victoria, which have some p.m.)—I move: of the highest per capita expenditures on That the Senate take note of the answer given gambling—there is nothing in the Grants by the Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treas- Commission arrangements which would top urer (Senator Coonan) to a question without no- up any efforts on the states’ part—to reduce tice asked by Senator Allison today relating to gambling revenue. We know that they are revenue from gambling taxes. heavily dependent on that revenue to the I wish to challenge Senator Coonan on the point where the state government in Victoria issue of whose portfolio has responsibility has, according to reports, signed on for I for this matter. I did a quick check of the web think another 12 years with the two main site for the Commonwealth Grants Commis- poker machine providers in Victoria—a se- sion. It says: cret deal done without any sort of review of Although references are provided by the Minister the existing arrangements with poker ma- for Finance and Administration, their content is chines and certainly made with no regard for usually decided in negotiations between the whether or not the states were beginning to Commonwealth and the States, conducted largely deal with problem gambling. through their Treasuries. We know it is a problem. The Productivity Clearly, the Treasury is involved in the Commission said in 1999 that $3 billion a Commonwealth Grants Commission ar- year was being spent by problem gamblers rangements and the minister should have on gambling. That was the figure that so out- been able to answer my questions. If we go raged the Prime Minister and encouraged to the Treasury web site, we will find similar him to do something about this scourge. He information. Commonwealth-state financial said then that the Commonwealth would lead relations are within Treasury. The web site the way. They have not; they have done says: nothing, in effect. In fact, from when the Commonwealth-State Financial Relations Divi- Productivity Commission report and the data sion provides advice on Commonwealth-State on which that report was based came out, up financial relations— to 2001 we have had a 39 per cent increase as you would expect— in profits taken from poker machines in pubs fiscal developments in the States and Territories alone. We have had 10,000 extra machines as well as the total public sector ... put in two years after the Prime Minister made that commitment. It is an outrage that

CHAMBER 11660 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 the government is not seriously looking at NOTICES this question. There was a lot of hoo-ha and a Presentation lot of press when the Productivity Commis- Senator Stott Despoja and Senator sion report came out, so we saw a knee-jerk Bolkus to move on Monday, 23 June 2003: reaction. (1) That the following matters be referred to We cannot even manage to spend the the Legal and Constitutional References money which was set aside for research on Committee for inquiry and report: this subject. For two years the Common- (a) the most appropriate process for wealth has been trying to organise a memo- moving towards the establishment of randum of understanding between it and the an Australian republic with an Victorian state government just to conduct Australian Head of State; and research. No research has been done because (b) alternative models for an Australian we are still arguing about the arrangements republic, with specific reference to: for it. So that money sits in a trust some- (i) the functions and powers of the where. Meanwhile, the Commonwealth Head of State, promised that it would conduct a Ministerial (ii) the method of selection and Council on Gambling and they would meet removal of the Head of State, and every six months. They have not met for al- (iii) the relationship of the Head of most two years. That is because the Minister State with the executive, the for Family and Community Services decided parliament and the judiciary. to shove this off to an advisory body that she (2) That the committee facilitate wide set up and stacked with industry people. She community participation in this inquiry then said to them, ‘You go off and work it by conducting public hearings out, and come back and tell us when you throughout Australia, including in rural have reached an agreement on how we solve and regional areas. problem gambling.’ Of course, they could Senator Ferguson to move on the next not because, as I said, it was stacked with day of sitting: industry people. Their interests were diamet- That the Foreign Affairs Sub-Committee of the rically opposed to one another. It was never Joint Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs, going to work. Finally, the minister ac- Defence and Trade be authorised to hold a public knowledged this in an estimates hearing a meeting during the sitting of the Senate on Mon- couple of weeks ago. day, 23 June 2003, from 5.30 pm to 6.30 pm, to No action has been taken on ATMs. I con- take evidence for the committee’s inquiry into gratulate, here and now, the National Austra- Australia’s relationship with Indonesia. lia Bank for withdrawing its licences pro- Senator Bolkus to move on the next day gressively as they come due from poker ma- of sitting: chine venues. This is a terrific move but the That the Legal and Constitutional References Commonwealth and the Prime Minister Committee be authorised to hold a private meet- promised that the federal government would ing otherwise than in accordance with standing start talks with financial institutions to get order 33(1) during the sitting of the Senate on this under way across the board. We have Wednesday, 18 June 2003, from 5.50 pm. seen one bank do it and they did it voluntar- Senator Ridgeway to move on the next ily. (Time expired) day of sitting: Question agreed to. That the Senate—

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11661

(a) notes that: That the following bill be introduced: A bill for (i) over 20 000 hectares of native forest an Act to subsidise students’ purchases of educa- is logged in Tasmania each year, tional textbooks when studying at education institutions, and for related purposes. Textbook Sub- (ii) Tasmania has the second highest rate sidy Bill 2003. of land clearing in Australia, Postponement (iii) the level of logging of native forests in Tasmania is threatening the natural Items of business were postponed as fol- and cultural heritage values of lows: Tasmania and is contributing to General business notice of motion no. 465 increases in Australia’s greenhouse standing in the name of Senator Lees for 18 gas emissions, and June 2003, relating to the introduction of the (iv) earlier this year, El Grande, one of Social Security Amendment (Supporting Australia’s largest trees, was Young Carers) Bill 2003, postponed till 26 damaged, and possibly killed, when a June 2003. regeneration burn conducted by General business notice of motion no. 471 Forestry Tasmania breached standing in the name of the Chair of the containment lines in the Florentine Select Committee on Medicare (Senator Valley; McLucas) for today, relating to an extension (b) condemns Forestry Tasmania and the of time for the committee to report, Tasmanian Forest Practices Board for postponed till 19 June 2003. their regulation of forestry operations General business notice of motion no. 473 and management of Tasmania’s native standing in the name of Senator Ray for forests, in particular Forestry Tasmania’s today, relating to the reference of a public conduct of management activities and work to the Parliamentary Standing the Tasmanian Forest Practices Board’s Committee on Public Works, postponed till failure to ensure that a robust Forestry 24 June 2003. Practices Code is effectively implemented; and General business notice of motion no. 475 standing in the name of the Leader of the (c) calls on the Tasmanian Government to: Opposition in the Senate (Senator Faulkner) (i) ensure logging of high conservation for today, proposing the establishment of a value old-growth forests ceases select committee on ministerial discretion in immediately, in accordance with the migration matters, postponed till 19 June goals of the Tasmania Together 2003. process, COMMITTEES (ii) amend the Forestry Practices Code to Legal and Constitutional References ensure greater protection for the natural and cultural heritage values of Committee Tasmania’s forests, and Meeting (iii) review the regulation and Senator BOLKUS (South Australia) management of the Tasmanian (3.35 p.m.)—I move: forestry sector to ensure that forestry That the Legal and Constitutional References operations are carried out in a more Committee be authorised to hold a public meeting sustainable manner and with greater during the sitting of the Senate on Wednesday, 18 regard to the natural and cultural June 2003, from 6 pm, to take evidence for the heritage values of Tasmania’s forests. committee’s inquiry into progress towards na- Senator Stott Despoja to move on the tional reconciliation. next day of sitting:

CHAMBER 11662 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Question agreed to. NATIONAL RADIOACTIVE WASTE Legal and Constitutional References REPOSITORY Committee Return to Order Reference Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western Senator BOLKUS (South Australia) Australia—Parliamentary Secretary to the (3.35 p.m.)—I, and also on behalf of Senator Treasurer) (3.37 p.m.)—by leave—I wish to Greig, move: make a statement on behalf of the Hon. Peter That the following matter be referred to the McGauran, the Minister for Science. The Legal and Constitutional References Committee return to order arises from a motion moved for inquiry and report by 3 March 2004: by Senator Brown, as agreed by the Senate The capacity of current legal aid and access to on 14 May 2003, and it relates to documents justice arrangements to meet the community need dated 1 January 2001 or later relating to the for legal assistance, including: hiring out and work undertaken by the public (a) the performance of current arrangements relations company Hill and Knowlton on in achieving national equity and uniform nuclear issues, including the nuclear waste access to justice across Australia, repository. I wish to inform the Senate that including in outer-metropolitan, Minister McGauran is tabling the following regional, rural and remote areas; documents from his portfolio: (b) the implications of current arrangements 1. A letter from Lorraine White of the De- in particular types of matters, including partment of Education, Science and criminal law matters, family law matters Training to Hill and Knowlton dated 16 and civil law matters; and October 2002, inviting a tender submis- (c) the impact of current arrangements on sion from Hill and Knowlton to provide the wider community, including public relations services surrounding the community legal services, pro bono legal services, court and tribunal services and announcement of the decision of where levels of self-representation. to establish the national repository for the disposal of Australia’s low-level ra- Question agreed to. dioactive waste. NOTICES 2. The Department of Education, Science Postponement and Training’s Public Relations Brief Senator FAULKNER (New South and Communication Strategy. Wales—Leader of the Opposition in the Sen- 3. Hill and Knowlton’s overhead slides for ate) (3.36 p.m.)—by leave—At the request presentation to the Department of Edu- of Senator Bartlett, I move: cation, Science and Training dated Octo- That general business notice of motion no. 474 ber 2002. standing in his name for today, relating to the 4. Hill and Knowlton’s proposal to prepare reference of a matter to the Parliamentary Joint Committee on ASIO, ASIS and DSD, be post- a communication strategy dated October poned till the next day of sitting. 2002. Question agreed to. 5. The Department of Education, Science and Training’s assessment of Hill and Knowlton’s submission.

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11663

6. A contract between the Commonwealth or else involve an inappropriate release and Hill and Knowlton dated 13 Decem- of personal information. ber 2003. • In the bundle of documents detailing the 7. A letter from Grahame Cook, a Deputy work undertaken by Hill and Knowlton: Secretary of the Department of Educa- policy advice to Minister McGauran, tion, Science and Training, to Hill and personal information, commercially sen- Knowlton dated 26 February 2003, re- sitive information of consultants and an cording the termination of the contract exchange of emails relating to the ob- by mutual agreement. taining of legal advice in relation to the 8. A letter from Hill and Knowlton to Mr Department of Education, Science and Cook dated 27 February 2003 confirm- Training’s contract with Hill and ing that the contract had been terminated Knowlton. by mutual agreement. The minister has noted on the tabled copies 9. A bundle of documents concerning the of these documents the general nature of the work undertaken by Hill and Knowlton deleted information and the reasons for the during the term of the contract. deletions. The minister has not tabled: Minister McGauran, after giving regard to • briefs provided to him by his depart- guidance on confidentiality claims issued by ment, which are in the nature of policy the Australian National Audit Office and the advice to him in his capacity as minister; Department of Finance and Administration, and and the provisions of the Privacy Act 1988, • documents relating to financial viability has deleted a small amount of the informa- checks undertaken by his department on tion contained in the following tabled docu- Hill and Knowlton, which are commer- ments: cial-in-confidence in nature. • In Hill and Knowlton’s overhead presen- I table the documents in response to the or- tation slides: the names of clients; per- der. sonal information and some commer- Senator LUDWIG (Queensland) (3.42 cially sensitive information of Hill and p.m.)—I move: Knowlton and its consultants. That the Senate take note of the documents. • In the Department of Education, Science With respect to the orders for production of and Training’s summary and assessment documents, I note that in this instance the of submitted proposals: information that government has seen fit to provide docu- would reveal tenderers’ clients and also ments to Senator Brown, and the opposition some personal information of other indi- makes no comment about that. But the oppo- viduals. sition does have a number of orders for the • In Hill and Knowlton’s proposal, and at production of documents that have been out- the request of Hill and Knowlton: infor- standing for some time. This is the third time mation that would be likely to result in that I have raised this, but I will be bit more the release of commercially sensitive specific on this occasion now that Senator and proprietary information to its com- Ian Campbell is in the chamber and may be petitors, constitute the commercially able to assist in ensuring that ministers un- sensitive information of its consultants, derstand their responsibility in providing timely responses to orders for the production

CHAMBER 11664 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 of documents or at least advice to the rele- little bit longer than a review of the imple- vant opposition shadows about what the mentation of oceans policy, it does set out in problem might be in complying with a par- some detail what is being sought. I am sure ticular order. Senator Ian Campbell will be able to at least We have a fortnight of sitting—we have convey to the relevant minister the require- gone halfway through this week and there is ments that are being sought there by the rele- next week. So I will give some assistance to vant shadow minister. Senator Campbell by taking a snapshot of a To give one last example to make three couple of orders. In a gesture of goodwill, that might be able to be attended to within Senator Campbell might then be able to this sitting fortnight, No. 27 relates to the round up some of his ministers to meet the Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer orders for production of documents rather dealing with a ministerial responsibility or- than take up time in the chamber while we der for production of documents. It is one debate why the relevant ministers have not that is now also somewhat old but still within been able to provide them. the current period—it is dated 12 December Senator Ferguson—You obviously were 2002. It relates to a matter that is under the not here in 1995. responsibility of the Minister for Revenue and Assistant Treasurer, Senator Coonan. I Senator LUDWIG—Some of them go am sure that Senator Ian Campbell can en- back quite some time, but we will take a courage the minister to provide at least an modern one then, as there is an interjection answer to that order for production of docu- that some of them might be a little bit old. ments rather than have me stand here and ask One modern one is the ‘Environment: oceans about all of them—which I will have to do policy’ order for production of documents. It unless at least some effort is made by the is a simple request, by the look of it at least, government to ensure that there is transpar- where the relevant senator is seeking the Re- ency and accountability in the production of view of the implementation of oceans policy: these documents or there is at least some final report by TFG International, dated 25 communication with the relevant shadows October 2002. about how they can comply and what the In reality it seems to be quite a short re- problems might be if there is a hold-up. That quest in that all that is being sought is the sort of communication would be helpful, but review that must be part of the minister’s if it is not forthcoming, I have chosen three responsibility. It is about an implementation at random that Senator Ian Campbell might of an oceans policy—quite an important mat- be able to take on board and see within this ter for the environment and quite an impor- relevant period if he can encourage his min- tant matter that should be laid before this isters to produce them. parliament. It should be able to be produced. Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (3.47 It is No. 25, which may assist Senator Ian p.m.)—I thank the government for that quite Campbell to follow it up. To take a random voluminous return to order on Hill and selection of those orders and move away Knowlton. I note the minor exceptions that from the environment, another one might be the minister has outlined. I will have a look No. 22, which is regarding the ethanol order at those. It may be in order for the minister to for production in the transport portfolio. That brief me off the public record if there are was also required to be laid on the table by matters of secrecy that are important. I Monday, 21 October 2002. Although it is a would still like some further information on

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11665 it, but I thank the government for the infor- capability and in a timely manner. There are mation. obvious ones where we have not been able to Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western comply in a way that the Senate would pre- Australia—Parliamentary Secretary to the fer. They are matters of contention that we Treasurer) (3.48 p.m.)—In response to Sena- have to deal with. No. 22, in relation to etha- tor Ludwig, clearly there are a number of nol, is a continuing bone of contention for outstanding returns to order, but I think it Senator Kerry O’Brien. I have had the wrath would be inappropriate to leave the record of his displeasure in relation to that one. I uncorrected in terms of the government’s can say on behalf of the government that we responses. In my own experience—and I assiduously ensure that the ministers are have delivered most of them—we have de- aware of their responsibilities and encourage livered interim responses where we know we them to comply as much as possible. cannot comply. If we know we cannot com- Question agreed to. ply, our regular practice is to come in here, COMMITTEES make an interim response and try to advise Community Affairs References Committee the Senate when we think we will be able to comply. If you read through the outstanding Meeting list, there are a number in there that have Senator MACKAY (Tasmania) (3.51 basically become irrelevant by the passage of p.m.)—At the request of the Chair of the time. Perhaps one of the things we need to Community Affairs References Committee, look at is a procedure for clearing these off Senator Hutchins, I move: the Notice Paper. I am informed that you That the Community Affairs References could use a resolution to clear this material. Committee be authorised to hold a public meeting In particular, No. 27, which is in relation during the sitting of the Senate on Thursday, 19 to Senator Coonan, related to events that in June 2003, from 3.30 pm, to take evidence for the committee’s inquiry into poverty and financial my mind seem to have been resolved many hardship. months ago. I also note that on page 37 of Question agreed to. today’s Notice Paper there is a list of outstanding orders from previous parliaments. Select Committee on Superannuation One that comes to my attention is from 23 Reference May 2001 and relates to HIH insurance. This Senator MACKAY (Tasmania) (3.51 is a notice that relates to events that were p.m.)—At the request of Senator Sherry, I obviously very topical at that time and that move: have since been investigated by a royal That the draft Superannuation Industry (Su- commission. They were the subject of exten- pervision) Amendment Regulations 2003 and the sive investigation by the royal commission, draft Retirement Savings Accounts Amendment an extensive and excellent expert report and Regulations 2003 be referred to the Select Com- announcements by the government to not mittee on Superannuation for inquiry and report only change the Corporations Law but to see by 21 August 2003, with particular reference to: the corporate regulator prosecute many of (a) the extent to which portability of those offences. It is clearly a matter that superannuation benefits already exists; should no longer be on the Notice Paper. It (b) the role of current, and likely future, is just a matter of tidying it up. In the general barriers to portability, including exit run of things, the government does seek to fees; comply with Senate orders to the best of its

CHAMBER 11666 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(c) the desirability and practicality of the MIGRATION LEGISLATION portability regime contained in the draft AMENDMENT (PROTECTED regulations, particularly in the context of INFORMATION) BILL 2003 the existing structures of the superannuation and financial planning HEALTH LEGISLATION industries; and AMENDMENT (MEDICARE AND (d) additional consumer protection PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE) BILL measures. 2003 Question agreed to. First Reading NOTICES Bills received from the House of Repre- sentatives. Postponement Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (3.52 Australia—Parliamentary Secretary to the p.m.)—by leave—I move: Treasurer) (3.54 p.m.)—I indicate to the That business of the Senate notice of motion Senate that those bills which have just been No. 2 standing in the name of Senator Brown for announced are being introduced together. today, relating to the reference of matters to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade References But, after debate on the motion for the sec- Committee, be postponed till the next day of sit- ond reading has been adjourned, I will be ting. moving a motion to have the bills listed Question agreed to. separately on the Notice Paper. I move: That these bills may proceed without formali- DOCUMENTS ties, may be taken together and be now read a Auditor-General’s Reports first time. Report No. 49 of 2002-03 Question agreed to. The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—In accor- Bills read a first time. dance with the provisions of the Auditor- Second Reading General Act 1997, I present the following report of the Auditor-General: Report No. 49 Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western of 2002-03—Performance Audit—Australian Australia—Parliamentary Secretary to the Maritime Safety Authority: Management of Treasurer) (3.55 p.m.)—I table a revised ex- the Navigation Aids Network. planatory memorandum relating to the Mi- gration Legislation Amendment (Protected Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Information) Bill 2003 and move: References Committee That these bills be now read a second time. Report: Responses to Senate Resolutions I seek leave to have the second reading The DEPUTY PRESIDENT—I present speeches incorporated in Hansard. a letter from the Auditor-General, Mr Barrett, relating to a resolution of the Senate request- Leave granted. ing the Auditor-General to respond to rec- The speeches read as follows— ommendations in the report of the Foreign MIGRATION LEGISLATION AMENDMENT Affairs, Defence and Trade References (PROTECTED INFORMATION) BILL 2002 Committee on materiel acquisition and This bill amends the Migration Act 1958 to give management in Defence. more effective protection to confidential information and ensure that section 503A operates as originally intended.

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11667

Currently, section 503A of the act protects infor- Make it clear that the minister’s power to make a mation that is communicated to an “authorised declaration authorising the disclosure of confi- migration officer” by a “gazetted agency” where dential information under subsection 503A(3) of that information is: the act is a non-compellable power, and provide Communicated on the condition that it be treated that the Federal Court and the Federal Magistrates as confidential; and Court have no power to review a decision by the minister not to exercise, or not to consider the Is relevant to the making of a decision to refuse or exercise, of the power. to cancel a visa on character grounds. This will provide more effective protection for This existing statutory scheme of protection does confidential information and will complement not extend to protect the information where a broader national and international strategies to non-citizen commences proceedings in the Fed- counter major and transnational crime, including eral Court, or the Federal Magistrates Court, to terrorism. review a character decision. To add to these measures, the bill also contains In such circumstances, my department must rely amendments to ensure that section 503A operates on a claim of public interest immunity to protect as originally intended. These amendments: the information from disclosure. If the court does not uphold the claim to immunity, then the infor- Protect the source of confidential information mation must be disclosed. (that is, the name of the gazetted agency) and any conditions on which the gazetted agency provides Any such disclosure would certainly put at risk this information; the continued provision of this information in the future. In some instances, it may even endanger Define gazetted agency in a way that ensures that the lives of sources. the providers of confidential information are appropriately specified in the gazette notice; and The amendments in this bill ensure the protection of information where character decisions are chal- Make it clear that information protected from lenged in court proceedings. disclosure under section 503A of the act is also exempt from disclosure under the Freedom of If a person commences court proceedings chal- Information Act 1982. lenging an adverse character decision, then the amendments will: In summary, I believe that these amendments protect the national interest, by ensuring that in- Limit the circumstances in which section 503A telligence and law enforcement agencies can con- protected information can be disclosed to the tinue to have confidence in Australia’s ability and Federal Court, or the Federal Magistrates Court; willingness to protect their information. Enable the Federal Court and the Federal Magis- These amendments are particularly relevant given trates Court to use interim and permanent non- the current security environment where it is vital disclosure orders to protect information that is that information provided by national security disclosed to them; agencies is protected. Set out specific criteria to which the Federal I commend the bill to the chamber. Court and Federal Magistrates Court must have regard when considering the making of a perma- ————— nent non-disclosure order; HEALTH LEGISLATION AMENDMENT Allow these courts to revoke or vary its non- (MEDICARE AND PRIVATE HEALTH disclosure orders but only with the consent of INSURANCE) BILL 2003 both parties to the substantive proceedings; The Howard Government has committed $917 Make it an offence, punishable by two years’ im- million to strengthen Australia’s universal health prisonment, for anyone to engage in conduct that care system by making general practitioner ser- contravenes a non-disclosure order; vices, and other out-of-hospital services, more available and more affordable.

CHAMBER 11668 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

The Fairer Medicare package will deliver better seven million Australians covered by a pension or access by increasing the size of the medical work- a Commonwealth concession card. force, particularly in outer metropolitan and rural Thirdly, this bill enables registered private health areas. funds to offer insurance plans to cover all out-of- Central to the package is the new General Prac- pocket expenses for out-of-hospital Medicare tice Access Scheme. This Scheme will provide services in excess of $1000 in a calendar year. financial and other incentives to general practices This new private health insurance product will that guarantee to provide medical care at no cost cover the same wide range of Medicare funded to patients who are covered by Commonwealth services as the concessional safety-net. concession cards. As is the case now, general The Government’s 30% Rebate on private health practitioners will be free to bulk bill whomever insurance will apply to these new health insur- they choose—but for the first time, the Govern- ance products. It will not be necessary to have ment will provide an incentive to participating existing private health insurance cover in order to general practices to strengthen the availability of take out this new product. At present, some bulk billing for pensioners and Commonwealth 30,000 Australians face out-of-pocket costs of concession card holders. more than $1000 in a year for Medicare services. The Health Legislation Amendment (Medicare For the first time people will be able to insure and Private Health Insurance) Bill 2003 contains against unexpected out-of-hospital costs. measures to make medical services more afford- The Howard Government’s $917 million Fairer able. The bill does this in three ways. Medicare package delivers a simple, fair, afford- First, general practices that sign up to the General able Medicare system that provides health cover Practice Access Scheme will benefit from the for all Australians. convenience of new electronic billing arrange- The Health Legislation Amendment (Medicare ments. The new arrangements will be more con- and Private Health Insurance) Bill 2003 as part of venient for both patients and general practitio- the Howard Government’s integrated A Fairer ners. If the participating general practitioner Medicare package strengthens the original tenets chooses to charge a fee above the Medicare rebate of Medicare by increasing access and afforda- or “gap”, as they can now, patients will have re- bility for all Australians. duced up-front costs. Instead of paying the general practitioner’s full fee, then claiming back the Debate (on motion by Senator Mackay) Medicare rebate, patients assign their Medicare adjourned. rebate to the general practitioner and only pay the Ordered that the bills be listed on the No- gap. Patients leave with no more to do and no tice Paper as separate orders of the day. more to pay. BUSINESS Secondly, the bill safeguards people covered by a Commonwealth concession card against high out- Rearrangement of-hospital Medicare costs that add up over time. Senator IAN CAMPBELL (Western The bill provides a new safety net whereby the Australia—Manager of Government Busi- Government covers 80% of out-of-pocket ex- ness in the Senate) (3.56 p.m.)—I move: penses to pensioners and Commonwealth conces- That intervening business be postponed till af- sion card holders when their cumulative out-of- ter consideration of government business order of pocket expenses for Medicare services is in ex- the day No. 3 (Australian Security Intelligence cess of $500 in a calendar year. Out-of-hospital Organisation Legislation Amendment (Terrorism) services for which a Medicare rebate is payable Bill 2002 [No. 2]). covers, for example, services by general practitioners and specialists, ultrasound, diagnostic, Question agreed to. pathology and radiation oncology. This new safety net provides an extra protection for the

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11669

AUSTRALIAN SECURITY The threat of terrorism has brought home INTELLIGENCE ORGANISATION the realisation that distance from the front LEGISLATION AMENDMENT line is no guarantee of safety. In fact, there is (TERRORISM) BILL 2002 [No. 2] no front line against terrorism. Labor has Second Reading consistently argued that ASIO needed new powers. We made that clear from the outset. Debate resumed from 13 May, on motion Our starting point in considering the ASIO by Senator Ian Campbell: bill was to ensure the right balance was That this bill be now read a second time. struck between taking effective measures Senator FAULKNER (New South against terrorists and preserving Australia’s Wales—Leader of the Opposition in the Sen- hard-won democratic freedoms. Unfortu- ate) (3.56 p.m.)—I rise to speak on the Aus- nately, the government’s starting point was tralian Security Intelligence Organisation very different. If they had taken a more re- Legislation Amendment (Terrorism) Bill sponsible and less political approach, the 2002 [No. 2]. Labor supports strong security ASIO bill would not have been as controver- laws to protect the Australian people from sial as it has been and ASIO would have international terrorist threats. That has been been on the job with its new powers 12 Labor’s consistent position since March months ago. 2002, when the first antiterrorism bills were To illustrate my point, I would like to re- introduced into parliament. It is just over 21 mind the Senate of what the provisions of the months since the tragic events of 11 Septem- ASIO bill were when the bill was introduced ber 2001 in the USA. It is just over eight on 21 March 2002—that is, what the gov- months since the terrorist atrocity in Bali on ernment said it really wanted. The original 12 October 2002. Labor strongly supports bill did not place any age restrictions on who the activities of our police and intelligence may be detained by ASIO. It would have agencies in targeting terrorists and protecting allowed ASIO to indefinitely detain any Aus- Australians from terrorism. In particular, we tralian without charge or even suspicion. support the work of Australia’s police and While detained, they could be strip searched, intelligence agencies along with support questioned for unlimited periods and pre- from other countries in targeting terrorism in vented from contacting—even to say that our region. International cooperation is the they had been detained—family members, most effective weapon against international their employer or even a lawyer. I remind the terrorism. Senate that, under the government’s original We support the extra resources provided ASIO bill, a 10-year-old girl could have been to our intelligence agencies in the budget. held in detention by ASIO in secret and Their ongoing work is an essential part of alone. The only concession was that a child’s our defence against terrorism, and the oppo- parent would have to be present for the strip sition welcomes extra resources being pro- search. The parent would then have to leave, vided to them. Now that the newest form of and they did not have the right to be present international terrorism has shown its ugly during questioning. What a farcical proposal! face, we support sensible enhancements to That was an unbelievable position for the ASIO’s powers to question people and to government to propose. One can only won- gather intelligence in relation to potential der why such an irresponsible position was terrorist acts. even written down, let alone presented as government legislation. The detention would

CHAMBER 11670 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 have been in secret and ASIO’s handling of conducted and, importantly, the absence of these new powers would also have been kept guaranteed legal representation. a secret. There were no proper review In December 2002 the Senate offered the mechanisms and no review by the courts. government significantly enhanced powers It is fair to say the original ASIO bill was for ASIO, with a tough new questioning re- perhaps the worst drafted bill ever intro- gime and equally strong protections for Aus- duced into the Australian parliament. It tralians who might find themselves subject to would have given ASIO extraordinary pow- those powers. The Senate’s main concerns ers with almost no safeguards. It would have were in relation to access to legal advice, the made ASIO more like a secret police force structure of the questioning regime and the than a specialist intelligence agency. The exposure of young children to ASIO ques- government’s original ASIO bill proposed tioning. Yet, as the ASIO bill stood in March that people could be detained indefinitely 2003, only three months ago, the government incommunicado without access to legal ad- still did not want people being questioned by vice. No other comparable Western country ASIO to have access to legal advice for the permits citizens who are not suspected of any first two days of their detention. It still offence to be detained in secret without ac- wanted to keep them in secret. This approach cess to a lawyer. Why would Australia permit would compromise one of the fundamental such a thing? Quite reasonably, Labor asked: principles of our system of justice: the right should we stop innocent people who are not to legal advice of choice when being ques- even suspected of an offence having a lawyer tioned. We are glad the government has now when murder suspects or terrorists can have come to its senses on this matter. a lawyer while being questioned? Our an- The opposition argued that the period and swer was a resounding no. The United States conditions of questioning should be compa- and Britain do not, and Australia certainly rable to those permitted under the Crimes should not. We rejected the government’s Act and to those used by other agencies incommunicado detention regime and in- whose task is to investigate crime. We pro- sisted that anyone being questioned by ASIO posed an alternative compulsory questioning should have access to legal advice for the regime which, in the most extreme circum- duration of questioning. stances, would allow for a person to be ques- Two scathing bipartisan committee reports tioned for up to 20 hours. We made it clear in 2002 brought the government closer to that it was 20 hours of actual questioning reality on the ASIO bill. When the ASIO bill which could, once breaks for rest, meals and was debated in December 2002, gone from legal advice were taken into account, add up the bill was the power for ASIO to detain and to more than two days in custody in an ex- strip search young children, gone was the ceptional case. We welcome the govern- complete denial of legal representation and ment’s changed approach on this matter and gone was the capacity for ASIO to hold support the government’s proposal for ques- someone indefinitely in secret. But there tioning to be conducted, if absolutely neces- were still some serious problems in the bill sary, over three separate eight-hour question- debated by both houses in December 2002, ing periods. I note that, according to the pro- namely the absence of a sunset clause, the tocols, the maximum period of continuous supervision of questioning by a legal officer questioning would be limited to four hours of little standing, the absence of written pro- with breaks for meals, rest and other normal tocols governing how questioning would be personal requirements. However, we do not

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11671 believe the maximum period of detention with equally strong safeguards to protect our should be seven days. Given that the abso- democratic rights. It left the public in the lute maximum time for questioning sessions lurch for six whole months. The government would be 24 hours, the opposition think it far has always claimed that the bill is both nec- more reasonable to set the maximum time for essary and urgent. When it was introduced detention at 72 hours. Such a period would on 21 March last year, the Attorney-General allow for sufficient rest for the subject during said: questioning and would also allow ASIO to The Howard government has been vigorously cross-check and analyse the information pro- pursuing important measures to ensure that Aus- vided. The opposition will be moving an tralia is in the strongest possible position to pro- amendment to set the maximum time for tect the Australian people and Australian interests. detention at 72 hours. The government stubbornly rejected sensible Labor did not accept that the govern- bipartisan recommendations from two par- ment’s incommunicado detention regime liamentary committees. The government re- should apply to children. The initial proposal jected amendments by the Senate that would by the government had no age limit for de- have given ASIO strong powers coupled tention and provided for strip searching of with strong safeguards. I stress that the safe- children as young as 10. Under pressure guards the Senate was insisting on were no from the scathing bipartisan parliamentary more than those which apply in similar coun- committee report, the government revised tries around the world. The government the ASIO bill to put in place a lower age waited another six weeks after parliament limit for detention of 14. The government started this year to reintroduce the bill. If the claimed, in a two-hour burst of histrionics on bill was so urgent, why was it not reintro- 12 December last year, that Labor’s approach duced in early February this year? Why did in the Senate was wrecking the bill. We all the government wait until the second last day saw the mock fury coming from Mr Howard, before a six-week break to bring this bill on Senator Ellison and even Attorney-General for debate in the House of Representatives? Williams, but it was just so much political When the Attorney-General brought the bluster as the government’s bottom line on ASIO bill back into the House on 12 De- the ASIO bill has become clearer. cember, he said: The government has tried to play politics This is an important bill that has become a test of with the ASIO bill and it has failed. Sensible commitment to the security of the nation. and balanced editorials in the Australian and Mark Riley from the Sydney Morning Herald the Courier-Mail on 16 December and the was spot-on when, on 7 March, he wrote: Canberra Times on the 17 December dis- It is clear the Government has failed Williams’ missed the government’s assertions. Numer- test. Its chief commitment with this bill has been ous independent observers, including some the security of its future electoral options. of this country’s most eminent lawyers were The Prime Minister said on 13 December: similarly appalled by the government’s ap- If this bill does not go through and we are not proach and argued that the government able to clothe our intelligence agencies with this should have accepted sensible modifications additional authority over the summer months it to its bill. Let there be no misunderstanding: will be on the head of the Australian Labor Party the Howard government deliberately passed and on nobody else’s head. up the opportunity on 13 December to give ASIO strong powers to combat terrorism

CHAMBER 11672 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

In fact, the government withdrew the bill and compel people to answer questions about then cynically waited for the full three possible terrorist attack. months required to establish a double disso- Let me now turn to Labor’s approach to lution trigger before reintroducing it. In the the bill and the government’s amendments, interim, ASIO has never been so much in the which have been circulated. The bill before media. Reports of ASIO activities over the the Senate, with the government’s amend- period 12 December to 12 March—the three ments, is a radically different bill to the one months the bill was set aside—were in the presented in March 2002. It is a radically media on most days. ASIO was certainly different bill in many ways, but let me high- very busy. During those same three months, light just six of them. Gone from the bill is what was the government saying about the the power for ASIO to detain and strip search extremely important ASIO bill—the bill that young children. Gone is the denial of legal had to be rushed through by Christmas to representation. Gone is the capacity for protect Australians over the summer months? ASIO to hold someone indefinitely. Gone is Nothing. The Prime Minister did not mention the capacity for ASIO to hold someone in it once. The Attorney-General broke his si- secret. Included is high-level judicial super- lence on only one occasion when addressing vision. Included are three strong review a private gathering of Young Liberals in Ade- mechanisms, namely: a three-year sunset laide—but that was it. Suddenly this suppos- clause; a review by the Joint Parliamentary edly very important bill slid off the govern- Committee on ASIO, ASIS and DSD of the ment’s public agenda entirely. operation, effectiveness and implications of The silence of the government on this the act after three years; and a requirement most urgent of bills speaks volumes. Once for ASIO to provide detailed statistics in its the ASIO bill was negatived in December, annual report on the number of warrants, the Prime Minister did not want to talk about questioning times and the prescribed authori- it. He did not want to talk about it because he ties who were used. That report has been did not want to reintroduce the bill until it tabled in parliament. met the requirements of a double dissolution The regime now being proposed by the trigger. Had the government accepted La- government is more of a questioning regime bor’s amendments when they were offered, than a detention regime. Importantly, there is ASIO’s new investigation powers would no secret incommunicado detention. Labor have been in place before Christmas last year has successfully insisted persons being ques- with strong and appropriate safeguards to tioned by ASIO should have access to legal protect democratic freedoms. Over the last advice for the duration of questioning. Labor five months, ASIO would have had the has successfully insisted that young children power to compel people to answer questions are not exposed to this regime and that the about possible terrorist activity. ASIO would age limit should be 16. I might add that 16 is have been able to exercise that power with the age at which young adults acquire certain strong bipartisan support. They could be us- legal freedoms. It is, for example, the age of ing those powers today to gather intelligence consent. It must be remembered that only 16- that could help prevent a terrorist attack on to 18-year-olds who are suspects—not non- Australians. Thanks to the government’s suspects—can be questioned by ASIO. We bloody-minded and politically-driven ap- have successfully insisted that detention be proach, ASIO did not have that power be- supervised by former or current judges—that cause of the government. ASIO could not is, by experienced judicial experts independ-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11673 ent of ASIO, independent of the government ernment to do so. But we want the govern- of the day and not vulnerable to political ment to give those matters serious considera- pressure or prime ministerial displeasure. We tion—they are serious amendments moved in have successfully insisted on a sunset clause good faith in an attempt to wrap up over 15 of three years. The government wanted their months of heated debate with a more biparti- regime to continue indefinitely. A sunset san bill. clause will allow parliament to monitor the The opposition supports strong, balanced effectiveness of the regime and scrutinise security laws to protect the Australian people any allegations of abuse of the regime. We from international terrorist threats. We sup- have successfully argued that ASIO’s new port strengthening the capacity of ASIO to powers should be granted only for a limited investigate potential terrorist activity. Al- time and that the necessity of having such though the government’s proposals do not powers on the statute books should be reas- include every safeguard we would want in- sessed at regular intervals. cluded, we recognise that the bill now before With the amendments we are moving to- the Senate is a massive improvement on the day, the government has the opportunity to bill that was originally proposed in March consider some outstanding matters covering 2002. (Extension of time granted) It is a radi- the detention period: an appropriate offence cally different bill. I urge the government to deal with unauthorised disclosure of in- now to go the extra yard and address the ar- formation, the removal of the reversal of the eas of concern which still remain. I hope that onus of proof in relation to two of the of- the government will see the sense of Labor’s fences, and technical amendments dealing amendments, and I commend this approach with lawyers and the onus of proof. But I to the Senate. want to be up-front about our approach to Senator GREIG (Western Australia) this bill now that the government has made (4.17 p.m.)—In December last year, the gov- such significant compromises. Labor’s bot- ernment urged the parliament to pass the tom line is that Australia’s national security Australian Security Intelligence Organisation should be above party politics. Labor has not Legislation Amendment (Terrorism) Bill played politics with the ASIO bill at any 2002 [No. 2], which is once again before us, time, and we are not about to start now. albeit altered somewhat, claiming that it was We have argued for significant changes to desperately needed to protect the Australian the bill and significant changes have been community over the summer months. As we made. These changes will ensure even know, the bill was not then passed and Aus- greater confidence in the community in the tralians remained safe from terrorism none- operation of ASIO’s new powers. We would theless. In saying this, I do not want to sug- still prefer other changes to this bill and we gest that we should take our safety for will propose amendments to achieve an even granted or fail to recognise that terrorism is better outcome. But I make it clear that the random, indiscriminate and brutal. There is opposition will not be insisting on its no doubt that terrorism presents a very real amendments if the government rejects them. threat to the Australian community and that, We are urging the government to go the extra as a parliament, we have a responsibility or a yard and address the areas of concern which duty to think carefully about how our deci- still remain. Given that we will not be insist- sions impact upon the safety and security of ing on the amendments, I acknowledge that all citizens. But the government’s pre- there is no political necessity for the gov- Christmas warning illustrates the way in

CHAMBER 11674 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 which it has sought to radically increase its manner set out in this legislation is not, I powers since the tragic events of September believe, the answer. The bill before us is 11 two years ago. poorly targeted and disproportionate. It goes Of course, events like September 11 and much further than any comparable jurisdic- the subsequent Bali bombings frighten the tion has been prepared to go, yet the gov- community. They remind us of the unpre- ernment has presented no compelling case as dictability of terrorism and the fact that Aus- to why this is necessary. tralians are not exempt or immune from such In a presentation hosted by the Parliamen- tragedies. But, instead of seeking to alleviate tary Library last year, Professor George Wil- this sense of insecurity, the Howard govern- liams warned that we should be wary of ment has exploited that fear to some degree placing too much confidence in the ability of in a quest for increased powers. It has tried legislation to prevent terrorist acts. While to frighten us into believing that we must there may well be a need for some kind of sacrifice our fundamental rights and liberties legislative response, we must remember al- in order to be safe. The truth is that human ways that the law is only one means by rights and civil liberties were established which to combat terrorism and that it clearly precisely to protect us from threats to life has limitations. We must adopt a broad and and freedom. A world in which rights and comprehensive approach when assessing the liberties are respected is a world better capability of our intelligence agencies to equipped to meet the threat of terrorism. prevent acts of terrorism. One of the important themes to emerge A recent article in the Bulletin suggested from a number of submissions to the com- that there are serious deficiencies in ASIO’s mittee’s inquiry into this bill was that if the ability to protect Australia against terrorist government intended to mount such an as- attacks. However, the article did not high- sault on the rights and liberties of Australians light the need for more extensive powers as then it bore the burden of proof to demon- the source of the problem. Rather, it sug- strate why this was absolutely necessary. In gested that ASIO is suffering from a severe other words, it was for the government to lack of resources. Surprisingly, the resourc- show exactly why it needed these powers ing of ASIO is an issue that has received and how they would help to protect Austra- very little or almost no attention in the de- lians from the threat of terrorism. More than bate over this legislation. Without making a year after this bill was first introduced, the any direct observation about ASIO’s funding government has still not discharged this bur- on this occasion, what I would say to the den. Perhaps this is because it simply cannot government is that it should be very careful demonstrate a genuine need for such un- that it does not seek to address what is essen- precedented and draconian powers. The fact tially a funding and staffing issue by radi- is that this legislation is not necessary to pro- cally increasing the powers of ASIO’s cur- tect Australians from terrorism. rent staff, particularly when such powers will That is not to deny the need for Australia enable ASIO to infringe well-established to seriously examine and assess its intelli- rights and liberties, because that is exactly gence capabilities. Of course our intelligence what the legislation does. agencies must be able to operate effectively Let us look for a moment at some of the to protect the safety and welfare of the com- more disturbing aspects of the bill. Firstly, munity. But increasing their powers in the the bill will enable ASIO to detain individual

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11675

Australians incommunicado for up to a week This is not the kind of Australia most Aus- for the purpose of interrogation. They will tralians want to live in. Like most Austra- have no right to silence and no privilege lians, I want to be safe from terrorist attacks. against self-incrimination. Moreover, they I want my family and my friends to be safe will bear the burden of proof to demonstrate as well. But I want to live freely—with dig- that they do not have the information ASIO nity and respect for the rights and the liber- is seeking, effectively reversing the presump- ties that ought to be a fundamental tenet of a tion of innocence until proven guilty, which healthy democracy—not under threat nor is a departure from established legal princi- under intimidation whether from terrorists on ples. While detainees will now have access the one hand or from intelligence agencies to a lawyer of their choice—subject to a on the other. I know that many Australians number of conditions—there is no obligation share this view. Hundreds of them expressed to inform them of this right when they are their very real concerns in submissions to the first brought before a prescribed authority. various committee inquiries into the bill and Foreign nationals who might be detained hundreds of them wrote to me or telephoned will not be permitted to advise their embassy my office, as I am sure they did to other of their detention. Those who require an in- senators in this place. terpreter will not be granted one upon re- The Australian Labor Party have ex- quest, but will have to rely upon the assess- pressed concerns about the application of ment of the prescribed authority. Of course, this regime to non-suspects, and we hope the government still wants this regime to that this is an indication that they will sup- apply to young people under the age of 18— port our amendment to reduce the scope of indeed, 16 is the minimum benchmark. Al- the bill by narrowing it to suspects only. I though the Democrats do welcome the gov- would like to look for a moment at what ernment’s amendments to exclude children some Labor MPs have said on this point. In under the age of 16 from the regime, we still the second reading debate on this legislation maintain that it is unacceptable for the bill to in the House of Representatives, Mr Melham apply to anyone under the age of 18. said: Perhaps the most disturbing feature of this Terrorist suspects must be identified, hunted bill, certainly from our perspective, is that it down and arrested—but only terrorist suspects. applies to every Australian whether or not Labor is determined to protect law-abiding Aus- they are suspected of involvement in terrorist tralians from grievous infringements of their activity. What this means is that, if there is a rights. chance that you have some information that On the same legislation, Ms Tanya Plibersek would be useful to ASIO, you can be de- observed: tained against your will for interrogation. ... it still ignores the fundamental principle that in You will have no right to silence and only a Australia we do not drag non-suspects in off the limited right to legal representation. If you street for questioning. Remember that these peo- do not have the information ASIO is after, ple are not people who are suspected of crimes; you will have to prove it and, if they do not they are people who are suspected of knowing something that might help ASIO. believe you, they can keep you locked up for a week to continue interrogating you on this As we begin to debate this bill for a second point. And all of this would take place under time, I indicate that the Democrats will give the threat of five years in prison if you do not the Senate an opportunity to consider, debate cooperate. and address what we argue is a fundamental

CHAMBER 11676 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 flaw in the legislation. The Democrats will dictions that those jurisdictions could not move an amendment to restrict the applica- have enacted similar legislation, even if they tion of this legislation, if it is to become law, had wanted to. There is no compelling reason to those suspected of involvement in terrorist whatsoever why Australians should be ex- activity, and I will argue strongly for the posed to potential derogations of their fun- Senate to support that amendment. The La- damental rights and freedoms when the citi- bor opposition has made it very clear that it zens of other common law countries are not. opposes the interrogation of people who are In response to the terrorist attacks of Sep- not suspected of offences. So I take the op- tember 11, the Prime Minister made the portunity to challenge Labor to vote accord- observation that it would be: ingly. This time round, we have the opportu- ... a terrible, tragic, obscene irony if, in respond- nity to address the most significant flaw in ing ... to these terrible, terrorist attacks, we for- the legislation. So I ask both the government sook the very things that we believed had been and Labor, but Labor essentially, not to just assaulted ... complain about the bad aspects of the bill but The Democrats agree and believe that this to help us to fix it up. bill is a terrible and an ironic response to The Democrats will once again move those events. It is misdirected and dispropor- amendments which seek to ensure that peo- tionate. For these reasons, the Democrats ple who are detained will be advised of their will hold firm in our opposition to this legis- right to legal advice when they are first lation and heed the call of the many Austra- brought before a prescribed authority; that lians who rightly have called on the parlia- they will have access to an interpreter upon ment not to pass this legislation into law. request; that foreign nationals will have the In closing I say in all seriousness that I do right to inform their embassy of their deten- commend the government for their signifi- tion; and that there are appropriate limita- cant concessions. I acknowledge them and I tions on the way in which information ob- acknowledge, in particular, the role of the tained by ASIO can be used against the per- Senate in bringing that about. It strikes me as son who has provided it. We are committed important that, while the Prime Minister has to protecting the rights and liberties of all in recent weeks criticised the Senate for its Australians, and this will be at the forefront role and function, the legislation we have of our consideration of this bill. before us today, changed and amended as it Once again, I take the opportunity to ex- has been over recent months, has come about press the Democrats’ disappointment that as a direct result of the scrutiny, observation Australia remains one of the very few com- and intervention of the Senate. I do not think mon law countries that lack a bill or charter anything else in recent times—certainly dur- of rights. The debate around the ASIO legis- ing my term in this place over the last four lation is taking place in that vacuum. The years—better illustrates the incredibly im- government appears to be taking no action portant role that the Senate can and does play whatsoever to address this stark omission in modifying harsh legislation and in better from our body of law. The bill before us il- voicing the views of the Australian people. lustrates clearly that the rights and the liber- Senator SANDY MACDONALD (New ties of Australians are not inalienable under South Wales) (4.30 p.m.)—I would like to our present arrangements but can be overrid- speak briefly on the Australian Security In- den by clear legislative intent. It is precisely telligence Organisation Legislation Amend- because bills of rights operate in other juris-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11677 ment (Terrorism) Bill 2002 [No. 2]. It is very terrorism and the terrorist acts that are in- important and I thank Senator McGauran for flicted upon people. You only have to look at giving me the opportunity to speak, because the Amrozi evidence in the Bali trial over the time is of the essence here. I cannot let Sena- last couple of days. It shows how completely tor Greig’s comments go without making the out of line with our way of thinking terror- point that, while the Democrats might be- ism is that he could have given the evidence lieve that we live in an ideal world where we he did. He said he planted the bombs in Bali do not need security services, we do not. We because there were a lot of Westerners there do unfortunately need security services. and he disagreed with the way Westerners There is no legislation that we could possibly lived their lives. He wanted to kill people— put up, Senator Greig—through you, Madam indiscriminately. That is the sort of threat Acting Deputy President—that you would that we are dealing with, and that unfortu- find acceptable, because it would still be nately is the world in which we find our- completely alien to the sort of society you selves since September 11. might hope to achieve but which is not the The government has consistently taken a case. Governments are about making deci- strong, decisive and balanced approach to sions that are important for the Australian strengthening Australia’s counter-terrorist community—and, substantially, our political capabilities. On the legislative front, the opponents agree with that. They have been government enacted a package of counter- helpful in putting forward a number of pro- terrorism legislation—which all senators posals and amendments, some of which we would know, as it passed through this place have been able to accept and some of which last year—to ensure that Australia, through we have not been able to accept. our law enforcement and intelligence agen- This legislation will strengthen Australia’s cies, is in the best possible position to protect counter-terrorism capabilities by enhancing Australians against the evils of terrorism. ASIO’s investigative powers. The tragic This was in line with a number of UN resolu- events of September 11 marked a fundamen- tions, which Australia was a party to—one tal shift in the international security envi- example that comes up quite frequently these ronment, and the more recent tragedy in Bali days is the government’s capacity to pro- brought the realities of terrorism to our door- scribe terrorist organisations. step. The point that is always worth making This bill is part of that legislative package. is that the terrorist threat we are facing now Its primary purpose is to protect our commu- is not a conventional terrorist threat. Where nity. In developing this legislation, the gov- once we were dealing with people who had a ernment has been conscious of the need to political agenda, now we are basically deal- protect our community from the threat of ing with people who for one reason or an- terrorism without unfairly or unnecessarily other do not like us, do not like Western val- encroaching on the individual rights and lib- ues and do not wish to negotiate—they just erties that are fundamental to our democratic want to kill us. Never forget that. I cannot process. I want to make that perfectly clear. understand why. One can perhaps justify it in This is a very fine act; it strikes the right bal- some way. But these are not the conventional ance with the legislation as well as with the or traditional terrorist threats of the past that law enforcement agencies and the people we understood. who run the intelligence agencies—all of These inexcusable atrocities show us that whom, in my experience, are first rate, well no country is safe from the devastation of trained and committed and have a very keen

CHAMBER 11678 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 understanding of the rights and liberties in provides for a warrant that allows for a total the legislative program under which they of 24 hours of questioning in eight-hour operate. blocks over a maximum period of seven In the process of developing this bill, the days, subject to the protocol governing the government has done everything it can to questioning process. The existing significant ensure that concerns raised about the bill safeguards covering the questioning process, were taken into consideration; the govern- including the presence of current and former ment has included significant safeguards in judicial officers overseeing the questioning, the bill to ensure that rights and liberties are will continue to apply. appropriately protected; and the government Thirdly, there was understandably a lot of has made significant amendments to the bill concern about access to lawyers. The to address concerns that have been raised. amendment provides access to a lawyer of For example, in an effort to achieve opposi- choice, with safeguards to protect security tion support for the bill we have agreed to a sensitive information and increase secrecy three-year sunset clause, despite the fact that offences. There was a problem of course, we definitely do not believe that a sunset when you are dealing with somebody in such clause is appropriate. But in the interests of a difficult area, in that unfortunately not all getting the legislation through we listened to lawyers might be as trustworthy as they the opposition’s concern about this and pro- should be in terms of the national interest. vided a sunset clause. It is messy, but it was We found a compromise on this and lawyers provided because it is in the interests of the will be available, as is the right at common community that the bill be passed. law, to give legal advice to people who are The opposition has continued to insist on detained in one form or another under this amendments to the bill that would render it legislation. operationally unworkable. In an attempt to The government have shown yet again break this deadlock for the sake of commu- that we have a cooperative attitude and are nity safety, the government has developed a more than willing to work with the opposi- set of amendments that address the opposition to ensure that Australia has the best tools tion’s key sticking points without destroying, to fight the potential threat of terrorism. It is we believe, the workability of the bill. These certainly time that the opposition turned its amendments are in addition to the substantial focus away from political point scoring and number of amendments that we have already worked with the government for the safety agreed to in an effort to secure the bill’s pas- that this whole suite of security legislation, sage, including that the bill, as I mentioned, and particularly this piece of legislation, will will sunset in three years time. provide. There are three main amendments pro- What the opposition proposed last year posed now to facilitate the passage of the and continues to insist upon would have ren- bill. Firstly, there was some concern about dered this bill unworkable. We could not the application of the bill to young people— accept that. Instead we have put together a namely, the ability to detain and question workable compromise that will give ASIO anyone over 14 years of age. The age mini- important but workable tools to assist it to mum is no longer 14 years of age; it has been get on with its job. The amendments pro- increased to 16 years of age. Secondly, there posed in this legislation are consistent with is the questioning regime. The amendment what we want but they endeavour, in a sensi-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11679 ble way without undermining the bill, to own spokespeople—and that there was not meet some of Labor’s concerns. They are a one person in the Australian Labor Party further demonstration of our good faith and caucus who stood up against this most seri- desire to give ASIO decent and workable ous erosion of these basic civil liberties for legislation that is so plainly in the national Australians. It is a derogation of the obliga- interest. tion of opposition—and not least that of a The government are committed more than Labor opposition, which has traditionally ever to the safety of the Australian commu- stood in defence of the rights of ordinary nity. We are committed to giving ASIO—full Australians. of the capable and decent people that it is— Government members might be now com- the tools that it needs to find out about ing to the defence of the opposition on this, planned terrorist attacks when it is most im- but the opposition today became a pale shade portant; that is, before Australians are hurt or of Howard. The Howard government has killed. We are dealing with people who will moved to take up many of the precepts of kill and maim indiscriminately and who do One Nation—now defunct, because it had no not wish to negotiate or think about things in breathing space—and the opposition has the same way as anybody in this chamber moved again to be shoulder to shoulder with might. the Howard government on this legislation. It Whilst the powers provided to ASIO and is not acceptable, and the Labor Party knows our security services may appear out of step it is not acceptable. That is why, extraordi- with the way that most Australians look at narily, it had only one speaker on this bill, things, they are necessary. They have been who said, ‘It has been amended. The gov- tested and looked at and they are appropriate. ernment played politics, but we have fixed it For that reason, we have put together this up.’ Let me tell every member of the Labor legislation with its changes and amendments. Party in this place: you have not fixed it up. We are very optimistic that the opposition You have caved in to the Howard govern- will demonstrate that they are serious about ment in this most serious erosion of the national security and support the bill. That is rights of Australians. In that way, you have my wish and the wish of government. caved in to what we all fear, which is that if we give way to terrorism we will lose our Senator BROWN (Tasmania) (4.41 freedoms. This is giving away at the back p.m.)—The Australian Greens absolutely door what we are trying to defend at the front oppose this legislation. The Security Intelli- door. gence Organisation Legislation Amendment (Terrorism) Bill 2002 [No. 2] gives the secret Let me predicate what else is to be said by agency unprecedented powers that cut right saying this: there are extraordinarily strong across time-honoured, centuries old, hard criminal laws and surveillance laws in this won rights which are fundamental to Austra- country for dealing with those who might lian democracy, our sense of freedom and the plot terrorism. The public has not seen the belief Australians have that our country ex- half of it. The surveillance reach given by presses democracy second to none in the this parliament to our intelligence agencies is world. quite extraordinary, greater than ever before in history—to watch, track down, listen to Today the opposition has fallen in line and assess people who might be plotting in- with the amended ASIO bill. It is remarkable jury to the wider community. On top of that, that it did so unanimously—according to its through the Criminal Code, there are strong

CHAMBER 11680 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 powers to arrest, arraign, detain and imprison the legislation as amended will make Austra- people not only who may be acting in a ter- lia more like Stalinist Russia. Those might be rorist fashion but who are plotting the same. effusive words, but let me go to the specifics. They are very strong powers indeed. Nicole Bieske from Amnesty International, What we have here is something different. that wonderful organisation that works We have now laws being brought against against dictatorships, police states, torture innocent Australians who, under this legisla- and terrorism wherever it might occur in the tion, known to be innocent by the authorities world, had this to say: of any crime or potential crime, can be Amnesty International is concerned that if this picked up off the street or in their homes, bill becomes law, innocent people could be de- detained and interrogated day after day— tained simply for being in the wrong place at the three blocks of eight hours of intensive inter- wrong time. For example, you go out for dinner at rogation—without the right of their legal a restaurant. Somebody next to you, at the next table, is being surveyed by ASIO. You get picked representative to intervene and without the up the next day because ASIO suspects you may reason for them being picked up given to that have overheard something, and you can be de- legal representative so that any argument can tained for up to seven days because they suspect be put forward to seek the release of this in- you might have overheard something at a restau- nocent person. Indeed, the right is vested in rant that you innocently went to for dinner. ASIO to veto that person’s legal representa- She is right. tive. So any citizen who thinks that they are Senator McGauran—Give me a break! free from the reach of this law had better think again. Senator BROWN—Give these people a break. You tell that to people who are picked You can be detained—and Labor likes up in these circumstances. As I said, the legal this—not just for two days before a new au- representative of this person, if they have not thority is given but for seven days while this been vetoed by ASIO, has no right to be process takes place. And you can be a child given the reasoning for the person being under the law. You can be 16 or 17. I might picked up and so cannot argue against it. say to the opposition: ‘You railed against that Goolam Laher from the Islamic Council of and said that children should not be subject Australia feels that the new laws will be used to this law, innocents who can be picked up, to discriminate against individuals in our but here you now have this law applying to Islamic community. He said: 16- or 17-year-olds who are thought to be involved in some way or other.’ That is a The Islamic Council of Victoria, as a peak Islamic representative group, remains concerned that this breach of the International Covenant on the piece of legislation is being introduced at a time Rights of the Child, a la the Labor Party, at when the Islamic community is being marginal- the behest of the Howard government, in this ised and being treated and labelled as terrorist. It great Australian democracy of ours, and the is quite clear from the reading of the bill that the Greens will not support it—not now, not word ‘terrorism’ is a non-neutral term and already ever! The Labor Party might, but we will not. there are those stereotypes that are in fact making Just today, for those who may have heard the connection between terrorism and Islam, yet the government has not addressed those issues the World Today, there was a report of a and have not approached the community or the meeting of lawyers and community groups in Islamic community on the need to address those Melbourne which made an eleventh hour issues. How would Islamic women be treated? plea to the Labor Party because they said that

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11681

Will they be undressed in the absence of another to buckle under and simply to accept these woman? Will they be touched? amendments as in any way being satisfactory. These are very important fundamental issues Unfortunately for the Law Institute of Victo- for Islamic people and for many others. Are ria, even as they were holding that press con- they addressed in this legislation? No. Are ference, Labor was buckling in totally. The strip searches permitted? Yes. Under what new Crean leadership was falling at the first circumstances? They are laid out in the bill, test, the first hurdle. And it was not just fail- but a great deal of latitude is given to those ing some sort of new out-of-the-blue test. It who are going read this bill. Claire Mahon was failing the fundamental charge of the from the Law Institute of Victoria says that Labor Party: that it should protect people’s the legislation contravenes the United Na- legal and civil rights not to be taken by the tions Convention on the Rights of the Child. government, against those rights, and be de- She said not only can teenagers be detained tained and interrogated while being known to for seven days and interrogated but also they be innocent. The Labor Party has proposed can be strip searched. She said: some amendments to this legislation, but I The Government has, for a long time now, shown heard a spokesperson today say, ‘If the with its policy of detaining children asylum seek- government does not accept our ers that it does not intend to protect the rights of amendments, we’ll support the bill anyway.’ young people and does not take seriously its obli- Senator Santoro—That is a sensible gations under the convention. It is time for the thing to do. Opposition— the Labor Party— Senator BROWN—‘A sensible thing,’ says Senator Santoro. He agrees with the to remain firm in its commitment to honour our Labor Party on that because it is a direct international obligations, both under international law and to the non-voting citizens of our own message to Prime Minister John Howard that country. The only kind of detention that a 16- or the Labor Party does not want anything else 17-year-old child should be concerned about is out of this legislation—the Labor Party has school detention. signed off on it. The opposition will put for- The President of the Law Institute of Victo- ward amendments in the Senate and, of ria, Mr Bill O’Shea, said that coalitions of course, the Australian Greens will try to see groups opposing the bill and the govern- that those amendments get through, as I am ment’s amendments to it were calling on the sure the Democrats will. They will go to the federal opposition to reject it. He said: Reps and be rejected, because the message will have gone through from the Labor Party I think one of the difficulties facing Federal Labor that it has already collapsed. When the bill at the moment is that it is hard to distinguish it from the Government, and the ASIO bill in par- comes back here the Labor Party will cave ticular presents a real opportunity for the Opposi- in; the government will have got its way. tion to actually distinguish itself from their con- What a terrible day this is for oppositional servative opponents and perhaps the new rein- politics in this great house, let alone for the vigorated Crean Opposition might take this op- Labor Party, in this great country. It is easy portunity to take a stand. to say, ‘These are difficult times, different Can I say that the Institute would be very disap- times.’ They sure are. We have been through pointed were they— a number of wars in the last century as well, that is, the Labor Party— and they too were difficult times for this nation. But this legislation is breaking new

CHAMBER 11682 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 ground in terms of repression of time- acted, and which is not commensurate with honoured rights in Australia, which have what is happening in other democracies. This been fought for in those very conflagrations. is a very serious debate, but the opposition We have defended this country to keep these present one person to speak in it. Why rights intact, but they are now becoming part should they have more? They are unanimous. of a political process. It is becoming a race to Where is the emeritus Senator Barney see who can auction off these rights to gain Cooney? favour under the fear that is generated by the Senator McGauran—Yes, where is he? governments of the day in this country and in Senator BROWN—Indeed. Where is he? Washington. Where is his spirit? I am sure that he would Let there be no doubt that the Pentagon be very worried by the process that has taken will be very pleased with this legislation. The place here today. Where is the spirit of those powers that be in the United States are going conservatives who in the past have crossed to use this to try and do the same in the the floor to defend fundamental freedoms in United States. Maybe the same will be done this country? It is not here. It is en bloc; that in the UK. In Canada they have edged to- bloc and this bloc creates one bloc. That is wards this position but have not quite got why it is essential that we see alternative there—a process still has to be held in a voices available here to make the defence court. The Australian government is cutting and to put forward the plea that we are hear- into civil liberties by taking up a One Nation ing from community groups and legal ex- point of view, and it is now being aided and perts that the opposition should think again, abetted by the Labor Party. that it should search its conscience. I am Senator McGauran—It is a real threat, aware that this is one of the shortest—if not Bob. the shortest—speaking lists in history on a Senator BROWN—Yes. The honourable matter as important as this. Seven people are member opposite says that there is a real speaking in the Senate on this extraordinarily threat out there. There is, and it has not been important bill because the big parties, having helped by the course of this government. It is now got together on it, want to get it through, important that we look at terrorism and it is want to get it off the plate, want to get it important that we are strong. It is important done with. There is an attempt to do that to- that we deal strongly with those who would day. plot or try to carry out terrorism in our coun- The best the Australian Greens can do is try. We have to expect that that is what is draw out this debate in the committee stages. happening, and will happen down the line. Senator Nettle has important amendments to That is why we have tough laws under the put forward. I note that Senator Greig, on Criminal Code and under the laws which behalf of the Democrats, also has important empower our surveillance community and amendments to put forward. They must be organisations. There is a tension here be- and will be taken seriously. It is not going to tween our freedoms and rights and the wish be a case of simply having this ramrodded of terrorists and others to take them away. through this parliament because the big par- What I am saying is that, at the backdoor, we ties want to get it off the plate now. Today is have the big parties eroding those rights in a a very sad day and a very dangerous day for way which is not necessary, given the strong rights in our democratic country. I am ap- powers that this parliament has already en- palled by the opposition. I am appalled by

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11683

Mr Crean’s new leadership. I thought there That is a very direct answer to one of the was going to be a difference opening up be- questions that has been asked by Senator tween the Crean Labor opposition and the Brown in this debate, the question that he Howard government. But the first thing we posed only a few minutes ago. We have de- see is a collapse into one—an indistin- bated the contents of this bill for days. I well guishability between the big parties. recall last year at the very end of the session What is going to be the outcome from the when we sat for more than 24 hours straight Senate today? I recognise that Senator and considered the contents of this bill as it Faulkner said they had got big concessions. came backwards and forwards between this No—I disagree. The fundamental problems place and the lower house and the debate in this legislation remain. The concessions raged. In fact, I remember you doing then are nowhere near enough. The Labor Party what you promise to do today—to filibuster, should be here with the Greens solidly op- to take up precious time—in terms of pre- posing this bill. But they are not. Right venting this parliament from enacting a bill across the board, including the journalists that is as important as this. That is one of the and the media of Australia, is a sense of answers. It is your right to do what you have enormous foreboding about the potential promised to do. Nobody, including me, will misuse of this legislation in the future simply ever deny you that right. I am a true democ- because people have information. rat to that extent. What I say in response to you, Senator Brown, is that this bill has been Senator McGauran—The ABC. debated ad nauseam. What we are now doing Senator BROWN—No, not just the ABC. is putting the final touches to it after exten- That includes the commercial media as well. sive consultation that you claim has not oc- (Time expired) curred. We are now proceeding with finalis- Senator SANTORO (Queensland) (5.01 ing the bill. p.m.)—When the Attorney-General intro- It could be expected that the Democrats duced the Australian Security Intelligence and the Greens would fail to see—no pun Organisation Legislation Amendment (Ter- intended—the wood for the trees. On their rorism) Bill 2002 [No. 2] in the House of record, they certainly would not believe that Representatives in March, he made this cen- the famous Clausewitz maxim—if you en- tral point: trench yourself behind strong fortifications, The government has consistently taken a strong, you compel the enemy to seek a solution decisive and balanced approach to strengthening elsewhere—has any currency today. But the Australia’s counter-terrorist capabilities. Labor Party, being a party of government, I am sure there can be no-one, whether or not certainly does, even if for political reasons in agreement with the detail of the govern- today it might prefer to pretend by its action ment’s position on protecting Australia and that deadly serious security issues do not Australians from terrorism, who would doubt exist or are less major than most people be- that that is the case. So there will be univer- lieve and the evidence would indicate. That sal agreement on that, I hope. Agreement is makes the position the Labor Party took on what we need to pass this legislation. For far this bill—together with the Greens and the too long in these times of international dan- Democrats, I should add—and in the com- ger and national peril, the Labor Party, the munity contemptible. It stands condemned Democrats and the Greens have combined to for opting for inaction over action. It stands ensure that this bill has been kept in limbo. condemned for having resigned from na-

CHAMBER 11684 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 tional leadership yet again. It was apparently According to Mr O’Gorman, it is appar- too busy fighting its alphabet war—the ently surprising that we should be attempting ABCs, the BBBs et cetera—to spend much to protect ourselves through the imposition time deliberating on its obligations to the of a law that does not exist in either America people in relation to the real one. or Britain and where ASIO’s equivalents in The amendments the government is mov- the US and Britain are not seeking such a ing to the bill now being debated should re- law. That is of interest to Mr O’Gorman and solve that dilemma. They address the con- others like Senator Brown as a debating cerns that some people had put up that, in point. But Britain and America have their attempting to counter terror, Australia was own ways of dealing with deadly threats forgetting its human duty. On this side of the from the disaffected, whether or not these chamber we never thought that this was a people are simply murderously or also sui- valid argument. Nonetheless, it is essential cidally inclined. The fact is that the sort of that this legislation be passed and that it be- terror threat this legislation seeks to combat comes law at the earliest possible moment. is very likely to be posed by quite young There is direct evidence in that court in Bali people. In the Middle East the average age of today that whether we like it or not—and, of suicide bombers is less than 25. In fact, as course, no-one likes it—Australia and Aus- Senator Brown would know, some are con- tralians are potential targets of terror. In the siderably younger. Some are of the age cap- nature of democratic politics—and it is, in tured by the legislation we are debating to- the end, democracy that we are fighting to day—some of those who would have knowl- protect, as well as our lives—one compro- edge of an impending outrage in the planning mises not on principle but on detail. stage certainly would be. The government amendments substan- It is plainly apparent, given the horrible tially meet the demand from some quarters and shocking events of September 11, 2001, that young people who might be detained as in New York and Washington, and those of possible terrorist suspects or persons with October 12, 2002, in Bali, that Australia re- potential knowledge of terrorist plans be quires additional protection against terrorism given special consideration. It will obviously of the sort this bill would mandate. Only re- not settle everyone’s fears—that is obvious cently a report regarded in intelligence cir- from the debate that has taken place here cles as credible was published in a Saudi today. I see that in Queensland, civil libertar- Arabian newspaper that said that al-Qaeda ian Terry O’Gorman says the measures— had created a new operational structure and under which the authorities will not be able was preparing a new attack against the to detain anyone younger than 16, question- United States on the scale of the September ing will be limited to three eight-hour ses- 11 atrocities. That is the security environ- sions in a week and detainees would have ment which we live in. This is the reality— immediate access to lawyers—are still unac- the reality of threat that we must be equipped ceptable. That is a real pity. I hope that Mr to investigate and eliminate—with which we O’Gorman’s touching faith in the principle have to deal. that one should avoid detaining young peo- Australians who believe that their country ple even if they are planning to blow you up or its interests—and Australian interests are, is never put to the test. indeed, global—are somehow immune or at significantly lower threat from international terrorism are fooling themselves. It is an al-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11685 most certain bet that there are among us peo- things that we would never surrender. The ple who support the principle of committing level of the government’s commitment to acts of terrorism and who in some cases are enhanced security against the threat of terror- active partisans for their cause and some who ism cannot be doubted and should not be are quite possibly sleepers—in the sense of challenged, particularly by those opposite, being operationally inactive but ready to who long ago abandoned the field of national roll—on behalf of some organisation or other debate to concentrate on their own party in- that would like to kill Australians and other trigue. After September 11, the government people here in Australia. Australians today committed $1.3 billion over five years to are certainly not a protected species. We strengthen Australia’s domestic security. Af- know from horrific experience that not only ter the Bali bombings, this substantial outlay do Australians face the same level of threat was reinforced by an allocation of a further as any other people but also, as was the case $100 million. in Bali in October last year, they are very Australia’s domestic security arrange- specific targets. ments remain under constant review. This The bill we are debating today is part of particular bill was introduced on 21 March the essential upgraded suite of legislation 2002. It was referred to both the Senate Le- designed to protect Australia and Australians gal and Constitutional Legislation Commit- from the mass murderers of the terrorist un- tee and the Parliamentary Joint Committee derworld. Much of this legislation has been on the Australian Security Intelligence Or- passed through the parliament. There is gen- ganisation, Australian Secret Intelligence eral community agreement that, however Service and Defence Signals Directorate. regrettable it might be, in times of threat one The parliamentary joint committee reported must accept some restrictions on the personal on 5 June 2002 and the Senate committee on freedoms democratic societies afford their 18 June 2002. The Labor Party then referred people, for the sake of security. What has it to the Senate Legal and Constitutional happened is that the government has faced References Committee—this, of course, was up to the reality of the world security envi- a delaying tactic—and in December last year ronment that was changed forever by the the ALP chose politics over community horrific events of September 2001. safety and rejected the bill. In doing so, it Following the New York and Bali attacks, showed complete disregard for protecting the the government made it clear that it saw its community in emergency terrorist situations. first priority as being to provide for the Thanks to Labor, ASIO still does not have safety and protection of the Australian peo- the powers it needs to question people who ple. This approach has been multifaceted. It might have information about possible ter- involves not only a comprehensive legisla- rorist attacks or to gather the details we need tive package, including this bill we are again to prevent such attacks. Amendments origi- debating today, but also appropriate levels of nally moved by Labor would have rendered increased funding. The government is very the legislation completely unworkable. The conscious of the need to protect the Austra- government amendments now before us rep- lian community from the threat of terrorism, resent a compromise that Labor has finally without unfairly or unnecessarily encroach- accepted—and I state for the record that that ing on the individual rights and liberties that is good. are fundamental elements of our democratic The counter-terrorism package, including system—indeed, they are not negotiable; the ASIO bill, provides our security and law

CHAMBER 11686 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 enforcement agencies with the tools they tralia certainly has a moral and legal obliga- need to identify and prevent terrorist acts tion to uphold international law. It has an wherever possible and, if necessary, punish obligation under the Convention on the those who are responsible for them. It is also Rights of the Child to protect the best inter- a deterrent. It sends a clear message to those ests of all children. These are things that who might commit or support acts of terror- come naturally to any Australian and cer- ism that Australians will simply not tolerate tainly to any Australian administration—and their activities in this country. It is essential so they should. But we have an equal obliga- to enhance the powers of ASIO to gather tion to ourselves to ensure that Australians vital intelligence in this area of operations. are as protected as they possibly can be from When he introduced this legislation in those who would do them harm. March, the Attorney-General said: I do not believe anyone really thinks that In the process of developing this bill, the gov- as a result of this legislation, or any other ernment has done everything it can to ensure con- that democratic people could ever counte- cerns raised about the bill have been taken into nance, there will be goon squads running consideration. The government has included sig- around our cities and towns arbitrarily ab- nificant safeguards in the bill to ensure rights and ducting people who might conceivably be liberties are appropriately protected. And the government has made significant amendments to the harbouring terrorist thoughts. That is not the bill to address concerns that have been raised. For purpose of the legislation, it is not the intent example, in an effort to achieve opposition sup- of the legislation, it will not be the effect of port for the bill we agreed to a three-year sunset the legislation, and all those opposite— clause, despite the fact that we do not believe that including members of the Greens in this a sunset clause is appropriate. place—know that very well. But at the same Opponents of the bill have sought to create a time, in the painful circumstances in which picture of it as legislation that will mandate we must now contemplate matters of na- the midnight knock on the doors of innocent tional security and personal safety, it is plain and law-abiding citizens by security opera- commonsense to require people in our coun- tives engaged on wild goose chases or acting try to provide any assistance requested of on unfounded suspicions. Much of this criti- them by the security services. There are no cism from outside the parliamentary envi- grounds in law for concealing knowledge of ronment undoubtedly is well meaning. I have a proposed criminal offence. received—and I know that all other senators The member for Banks, the shadow minis- in this place will have received— ter for justice and customs, said in the other communications from members of Amnesty place on 26 March during debate on the bill: International making very reasonable points; Terrorist suspects must be identified, hunted we acknowledge that. They are points that down and arrested—but only terrorist suspects. one would readily concede were it not for the He continued: fact that terrorism is not a normal war. Ter- rorists are not normal combatants. The only We must be diligent in protecting the community from terrorist threats, but we must be equally rule in the war against terror is that there are vigilant in protecting civil liberties and democ- no rules. ratic freedoms from assault. That does not mean we must abandon our I do not believe that anyone on this side of law, ignore our commitment to human values the chamber—or indeed anywhere—would or break the covenant we keep to treat people argue with the words the shadow minister in custody appropriately and humanely. Aus-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11687 chose to use on that occasion of 26 March. the storms may enter, the rains may enter—but But as well as life and limb it is civil liberties the King of England cannot enter; all his forces and democratic freedoms that terrorists seek dare not cross the threshold of the ruined tene- to destroy. It goes without saying that inter- ment. national terrorism constitutes a far greater Today we are not talking about seditious threat to the liberty of Australia than does the thoughts. The very concept of sedition is one judicial application of necessary additional planted in an earlier and alien age and long security measures such as those contained in withered on the vine. People can think and this bill. say whatever they want in our democracy. The shadow Attorney-General, the mem- What we are talking about here today is risk. ber for Barton, relied on the Magna Carta It is a small one—we hope—but nonetheless and Sir Robert Menzies for his defence of it is a risk against which the prudent will Labor’s position. He even dragged Prime wish the government to ensure that, within Minister William Pitt, the famous Pitt the some modern, Antipodean version of Pitt’s Younger, into his argument. Chapter 29 of ruined tenement, evil people are not plotting the Magna Carta—which is an assurance that mass murder by stealthy and cowardly ter- action will not be taken to the detriment of rorism. With the amendments now before us, an individual without due process of law—is the Labor Party can finally reconsider its of course a fine principle, but it is in no way position and vote for this bill. I believe, from infringed by the bill before this chamber. The indications, that it is going to do so. Such an Menzies quote he chose is from the speech act would be a civil virtue on the part of the the then Prime Minister made when he intro- Labor Party. It will be a service to the nation duced the National Security Act 1939 after and it will be good commonsense. the commencement of hostilities in World Senator STOTT DESPOJA (South Aus- War II. It is to this effect: tralia) (5.19 p.m.)—In recent years—and I ... the greatest tragedy that could overcome a think this is acknowledged by all in this country would be for it to fight a successful war chamber—life has changed in the Australian in defence of liberty and to lose its own liberty in community, and we have certainly been the process. warned constantly that our way of life is un- Yet in 2003—as in 2002, when the Labor der threat. Just in case we forget that for a Party first had an opportunity to reconnect moment, we have many reminders, including with commonsense in this area, as had the fridge magnets, to be alert and alarmed. I Greens, the Democrats and the other minor asked a question of the Minister for Family interests represented within this place—the and Community Services and the Minister liberty of Australians is not threatened by Assisting the Prime Minister for the Status of legislation. It is threatened, in part, by people Women today about the funding that came who may have information about a planned from domestic violence prevention programs or proposed terrorist act and do not intend to to assist with the production of those mag- disclose this to the authorities at the earliest nets. Certainly it is a very different definition possible moment and of their own volition. of ‘alert and alarmed’ that some women in Some 200 years ago, Pitt famously said, as our community have to deal with every day the member for Barton recalled: of their lives as they fear male violence. The poorest man may in his cottage bid defi- I do not want to trivialise or underestimate ance to all the force of the Crown. It may be frail; here today the threat of terrorism. Many Aus- its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; tralians have been directly and, indeed, tragi-

CHAMBER 11688 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 cally affected by it. But I do believe that bombs to anthrax in the mail, right through there are some aspects of our response to to flying aeroplanes into skyscrapers. terrorism that have been of grave concern, Clearly, terrorism is not limited to any par- including this legislation. Terrorists threaten ticular cause, any type of perpetrator or form lives, but our response to terrorism can also of violence, although, as we know, stereo- threaten our way of life. On the line are long- types have been rife in this context. Because established rights and freedoms and the im- the threat of terrorism is so nebulous, it can portant role that they play in promoting ac- be drawn into and used in almost any par- countability and decentralising power in our ticular debate. It can elicit fear among the democratic system. Since September 11, community, and governments can capitalise global leaders have relied upon the mantra on that fear. that the world has changed—and indeed it Since September 11 we have seen this oc- has; no-one disputes that—but what has also cur at domestic and international levels. For changed is the way that we talk about the example, during the last election campaign world. The threat of terrorism, although very we were confronted by the veiled implication real, is also vague. This has resulted in a that asylum seekers could be terrorists seek- widespread debate over how exactly we ing to enter Australia through the back door. should define terrorism. It is all about fear. Anyone who has been Following the passage of the govern- looking at Michael Moore’s Bowling for ment’s package of antiterrorism legislation Columbine, a popular culture reference, last year, our Criminal Code now includes a would recognise how our governments very broad definition of terrorism. It is a manipulate that fear. At an international level definition that implies the threat of terror- we have seen the desperate attempts of ism—that it is insidious, pervasive and that President George Bush to establish a connec- we can be neither certain that any particular tion between Saddam Hussein and terrorism place is safe nor confident that even the per- in order to justify the illegal attack against son we are standing next to is not a terrorist. Iraq. This is a message that has been perpetuated This culture of fear perpetuated by some by the government’s antiterrorism campaign. governments and some elements of the me- We are told to be alert but not alarmed, but dia has wide-ranging implications for civil no-one really knows exactly what we should liberties. In the past the civil liberties move- be looking for. If the so-called information ment has benefited from a degree of cyni- handbook is any guide to Australians, we cism that the citizenry has had regarding the should look out for people whose lifestyles state. For example, the greater push for pri- do not add up or who may have suspicious vacy protection was, in part, fuelled by those accommodation needs. In that case, just conceptions of the Orwellian Nineteen about anyone can be under suspicion. Eighty-Four Big Brother and most conspir- Of course, terrorism does emerge in many acy theories have involved the state in some different contexts. Previous terrorists in- capacity. cluded members of the IRA, Anglo- The threat of terrorism enables govern- Americans such as Timothy McVeigh, and of ments to deflect this fear to other objects and course Islamic extremists such as Moham- to cast itself as the protector of the commu- med Atta. Terrorism has been used in the nity. In this capacity it could get away with a name of many and various causes and terror- lot more than it could when the community ist acts, as we know, have ranged from car

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11689 was more wary of it. Here we are debating ernment has refused consistently to support legislation which will enable the government the Optional Protocol to the Convention of to detain innocent Australians incommuni- the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimina- cado for up to a week, taking away their tion Against Women—not a proud record for right to silence and forcing them to prove a country that, at the moment, holds the posi- that they do not have the information that tion of the vice-chair for the Human Rights ASIO is looking for. It is interesting to note Commission. Our government is permitting that one of the reasons—and this has cer- the United States to hold Australian nationals tainly been alluded to in the previous contri- indefinitely and without charge at Guan- butions—legislation similar to this could not tanamo Bay, having concocted a new cate- be passed in other jurisdictions such as the gory of detainee simply in order to avoid its United States or the United Kingdom is the human rights obligations under international bill of rights that operates in other countries. law and the United States Constitution. The I recently had the opportunity to hear Ms government is also considering entering into Cherie Booth QC, who gave a speech on the an agreement with the United States to grant British Human Rights Act and the ways in US nationals immunity from being tried in which it has been applied to address human the International Criminal Court for poten- rights violations since its enactment. She tially the very worst crimes against human- made a compelling argument for a bill of ity. rights in Australia. Unfortunately, the gov- In Australia, on the domestic front, our ernment’s record on human rights does not government is busy winding back hard-won suggest it is likely to move on this issue for human rights and those institutions that ad- some time, if at all. This is despite the fact vocate and protect them. The government’s that Australia stands virtually alone among proposed changes to the Human Rights and common law countries in its lack of a bill of Equal Opportunity Commission will severely rights. undermine the commission’s independence The ASIO bill is the latest example of this and capacity to protect the human rights of government’s increasing disregard for human all Australians. The government has also cut rights, civil liberties and, indeed, democratic off funding to the United Nations Associa- processes. As we know, this government tion of Australia, which, as all senators locks up those who are fleeing from persecu- would know, plays an invaluable role in edu- tion. Our Prime Minister has told us that cating the community about the UN, interna- these are not the kinds of people he wants in tional law and human rights. Australia. He cast doubt on the veracity on The government’s appalling record on their claim for asylum and he argued that we human rights was documented recently in an had to go to war to liberate them from the extensive report by the Australia Institute. torturous regime of Saddam Hussein. Yet this The report demonstrated the pattern of Aus- is the same government that has refused to tralia’s retreat from a position of leadership support the Optional Protocol to the Conven- on human rights to the position now where it tion against Torture and, indeed, has voted routinely ignores criticisms of the UN, against a motion to hold a special sitting of choosing instead to blithely follow the path the United Nations Human Rights Commis- set down by the United States in its support sion to consider the human rights and hu- for unilateral approaches. As Professor Zif- manitarian situation in Iraq. When it comes cak, the author of that report, states: to protecting the rights of women, the gov-

CHAMBER 11690 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Australia’s commitment to the observance of the name of security but its lack of commitment universal human rights standards and its coopera- to reduce the level of global poverty is ap- tion with the international institutions established palling. Australia, once a leader in the provi- to monitor them has been one regrettable casualty sion of overseas aid, is rapidly falling to the of this emerging populist foreign policy position. bottom of the ladder. The United Nations Professor Zifcak refers to the political advan- recommends that 0.7 per cent of GDP or tages of pursuing such a strategy when a gross national income be allocated to over- pervasive sense of insecurity grips the com- seas aid. The Australian government opposed munity. This is exactly why it suits some, a committee recommendation recently that why it suits government, to let this sense of the government lift its level to even just half insecurity and fear continue. While it does, of that amount. The Howard government is the government as a consequence is in a bet- failing in its commitment to honour the mil- ter position to increase its power at the ex- lennium development goals, which aim to pense of the rights and freedoms and the lib- halve poverty by 2015. Our current commit- erties of ordinary Australians. ment of 0.25 per cent of GNI is shameful and We hear a lot of rhetoric about the need to it does not reflect the generosity that has find an appropriate balance between safety long characterised the Australian community, on the one hand and security, rights and lib- evidenced by of course the extraordinary erties on the other. We have heard a lot about personal contributions that we see commu- that in this debate, particularly from the gov- nity members make to humanitarian and ernment members. The truth is that human other organisations. rights and civil liberties are not a liability in So this government, coupled with its this so-called fight against terrorism. On the complete lack of commitment to the poorest contrary, why doesn’t the government view people in the world, has now spent millions them as what they really are, and that is as a of dollars in waging a war, along with the powerful weapon? A strong culture of re- United States, against Iraq. Experts say that spect for human rights will help to address the Prime Minister’s decision to participate the root causes of terrorism, not just their in the war against Iraq has now put Australia devastating effects as this legislation seeks to as the No. 4 terrorist target in the world. Yet do. this government wants us to believe that it is The bill seeks to stop terrorists from committed to protecting the safety of the committing terrorist acts. But we need to community, surely the primary obligation of address and focus on how to stop terrorists any government. It wants us to trust it when from becoming terrorists in the first place. it says that these new powers are necessary. Evidence tells us that terrorism is more likely It wants us to trust it when it says that it will to breed where poverty and injustice abound not abuse these powers. The decisions of this and where there is little respect for human government have increased the likelihood of rights. So this suggests that one of the best Australians becoming a terrorist target. Hav- ways of preventing terrorism is to seek to ing put us in this position, the government’s eliminate poverty and to invest in good solution is now to infringe the rights and the governance and human rights. liberties of all Australians. Unfortunately, our government seems to Earlier this year I was fortunate to have a be taking the exact opposite approach. Not parliamentary intern. I am sure many hon- only does the government continue to argue ourable senators have benefited from the that human rights need to be sacrificed in the research work that has been done by interns

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11691 in the parliament. Ms Philippa Watson pre- and human rights. The legislation is funda- pared a comprehensive research paper on mentally flawed, it should be opposed and, this bill and its effects particularly on human for that reason, I will vote against it in good rights and civil liberties in Australia. I seek conscience, as will my colleagues. leave, Mr Acting Deputy President, to table a Senator ELLISON (Western Australia— copy of that report. I have received permis- Minister for Justice and Customs) (5.34 sion, I believe, from the government, the p.m.)—It is vital that, in order to protect opposition and the Greens. those civil liberties that Senator Stott- Leave granted. Despoja has referred to, we have the interests Senator STOTT DESPOJA—Thank of Australia at heart. In fact, the Australian you. Ms Watson’s conclusion at the end of Security Intelligence Organisation Legisla- her paper was that the dangers of the ASIO tion Amendment (Terrorism) Bill 2002 [No. bill are manifold and manifest. The powers 2] is vital in order to arm our security agen- provided by this bill could abrogate civil cies with strong tools to prevent and deter liberties, violate international law and would terrorism. We are not overstating the threat. not necessarily increase Australia’s security. Indeed, one just has to look at recent history That is why this legislation is bad. That is to see what has occurred—September 11, why even the most extensive amendments to which was referred to by Senator Faulkner; this legislation are not acceptable, and they and, closer to home, the Bali bombing, will not make the legislation acceptable. That which occurred only eight months ago. As is what people who are grappling with their well as that, there have been recent attacks in consciences today have to recognise, because Saudi Arabia and Morocco which have killed the legislation is based on a fundamentally people, some of them Australians. flawed approach, a flawed approach to the We are not overstating the situation when whole concept of the threat of terrorism. we say that we live in a climate where there This is not a filibuster; this is an opportu- are security threats to this country, and of nity to put on record my views, as other par- course we have seen domestically where ties, particularly minor parties, have done in those threats have been present. So it is all the Senate today. I hope to hear the rationale the more important that we arm ASIO with of the opposition to this legislation. I am the tools it needs to gather important intelli- proud of my civil libertarian roots. But by gence in relation to terrorism and to prevent the same token I think any Australian, potential perpetrators from carrying out their whether a civil libertarian in this chamber or terrorist crimes. This is not only about detec- a person who does not have a strong com- tion of those who have carried out terrorist mitment to civil libertarian views, could rec- acts but also about prevention. ognise the warning and danger signs today. I note that Senator Greig said that there Any senator who has a commitment to those was not really a need for this legislation. One hard-won rights and liberties today has an can be only incredulous at that remark be- obligation, a responsibility, to their fellow cause we have seen in other countries, in- citizens to vote against this legislation. cluding those in our region, and domestically Shame on those who will not vote against threats to our nation’s interests. Of course, it this legislation. This legislation is an abso- follows that we have to give ASIO the pow- lute line in the sand for Australians today and ers it needs to do its job properly. The pur- will impact on the rule of law, civil liberties pose of this bill, as I say, is to arm ASIO with

CHAMBER 11692 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 the tools it needs to gather important intelli- ered to obtain a warrant to question a person. gence in relation to terrorism and potential In order to prevent terrorist attacks, it is cru- acts of terrorism. That intelligence gain can cial to be able to question would-be perpetra- be used to intercept terrorists as they go tors of terrorist offences or those who may about their evil plans or to capture the perpe- have knowledge of planned terrorist attacks. trators of previous atrocities or simply to One could be forgiven for being amazed that warn Australians against visiting the site of a ASIO does not have this power for a warrant likely terrorist attack. All Australians would to question a person. After all, if you are in expect that their government would ensure the business of gathering intelligence, one against this and advise the community ap- would think that one of the most rudimentary propriately. ways of gaining intelligence would be to It is pleasing that the opposition has fi- question someone and to have the means at nally come to its senses and agreed to sup- your disposal to do so. port passage of this vital piece of legislation. This is different to arresting a suspect as Australia’s need for optimum counter- you would see in the criminal jurisdiction. terrorism capabilities has never been greater. This is about gathering intelligence in order Our profile as a terrorist target remains, and to protect your citizenry and to detect and we have this country on a heightened secu- prevent terrorist attacks. This bill establishes rity alert. We need to be well placed to re- a warrant process to allow ASIO to question spond to this new security environment in a person who may have important informa- terms of our operational capabilities, infra- tion relating to a terrorist attack. The gov- structure and legislative framework. ernment has bent over backwards to include One thing which is interesting to note in workable safeguards in the bill and to con- all of this is an absence of a reference to the sider workable compromises. In the commit- safeguards that we are putting into this legis- tee stage, I will be moving government lation. At the outset, the Senate needs to be amendments which do just that. In develop- reminded of the fact that during any ques- ing our proposals, we worked with ASIO and tioning which is envisaged pursuant to this the Attorney-General’s Department to de- proposed legislation a prescribed authority velop a workable compromise. We are would have to be present. A prescribed au- pleased that the opposition is no longer in- thority is not just anyone off the street; a pre- sisting on the unworkable amendments scribed authority can be a Supreme Court which it insisted on previously and that it has judge, a County Court or District Court now indicated that it will support the passage judge, a former judge or, as I recall, the of this bill. President or Deputy President of the Admin- The amendments I have mentioned fall istrative Appeals Tribunal. So you are deal- into three categories. Firstly, the government ing with people of stature and integrity, and will be moving amendments to the current their presence during any questioning period regime under which a warrant may be ensures that there is the balance that we have sought, allowing for a total of 24 hours of referred to—the balance between the need to questioning in eight-hour blocks over a carry out the questioning concerned and the maximum period of seven days, subject to protection of the individual. the protocol governing the questioning proc- Although ASIO can seek other types of ess. Secondly, the government will also be search warrants, it is not presently empow- moving amendments allowing persons detained under a warrant to have access to a

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11693 lawyer of choice, subject to a range of safe- Question put: guards to protect the disclosure of sensitive That this bill be now read a second time. information. Finally, we will also be moving The Senate divided. [5.47 p.m.] amendments so that warrants cannot be issued in relation to a person who is under the (The Acting Deputy President—Senator age of 16 and may only be issued in relation Cook) to a person between the ages of 16 and 18 if Ayes………… 48 the Attorney-General is satisfied on reason- Noes………… 11 able grounds that the person will commit, is Majority……… 37 committing or has committed a terrorist offence. AYES Clearly these are situations where the Aus- Barnett, G. Bishop, T.M. tralian community is exposed to grave risk. A Boswell, R.L.D. Brandis, G.H. young person who is the subject of a warrant Buckland, G. Campbell, G. Carr, K.J. Chapman, H.G.P. has the right to contact a lawyer and to have Colbeck, R. Collins, J.M.A. a parent, guardian or other representative Conroy, S.M. Cook, P.F.S. present at all times. Warrants issued under Coonan, H.L. Crossin, P.M. the bill will be tools of last resort. It is an- Denman, K.J. Eggleston, A. * ticipated that they will be used rarely and Ellison, C.M. Evans, C.V. only in extreme circumstances. I repeat the Faulkner, J.P. Ferguson, A.B. fact that, in the process of all questioning, Forshaw, M.G. Harradine, B. Hogg, J.J. Humphries, G. you will have present a prescribed authority. Hutchins, S.P. Johnston, D. The government has gone to great lengths Kemp, C.R. Kirk, L. to ensure that the bill contains significant Knowles, S.C. Lightfoot, P.R. safeguards, as I have mentioned. In particu- Ludwig, J.W. Macdonald, J.A.L. Mackay, S.M. Marshall, G. lar, it provides for significant penalties for Mason, B.J. McLucas, J.E. officers who do not follow the stringent Moore, C. Patterson, K.C. processes and safeguards set out in the bill. Ray, R.F. Santoro, S. This is something that the public would ex- Scullion, N.G. Sherry, N.J. pect. It would expect a government to take Tchen, T. Tierney, J.W. responsible measures such as this to protect Troeth, J.M. Watson, J.O.W. the national interest. It would expect those Webber, R. Wong, P. safeguards to achieve a balance between the NOES protection of the individual and the need for Allison, L.F. * Brown, B.J. security, and of course it would expect that Cherry, J.C. Greig, B. there would be significant penalties for offi- Harris, L. Lees, M.H. cers who abused the powers which had been Murphy, S.M. Murray, A.J.M. Nettle, K. Ridgeway, A.D. bestowed upon them. I will not go any fur- Stott Despoja, N. ther in relation to those amendments. Suffice * denotes teller to say that we have here a balance between Question agreed to. what is necessary for the protection of this country and the protection of civil liberties in Bill read a second time. our community. I commend this bill to the Ordered that consideration of this bill in Senate. Committee of the Whole be made an order of the day for the next day of sitting.

CHAMBER 11694 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

HEALTH CARE (APPROPRIATION) monwealth and state funds, and the decisions AMENDMENT BILL 2003 about delivery of services would then be Second Reading made at a local level. I argue that this is a far better way of delivering appropriate and Debate resumed. timely services and ensuring that the health Senator LEES (South Australia) (5.55 dollars—often what few dollars there are p.m.)—As I was discussing when this debate when compared to what is needed—are spent was interrupted before question time, it is wisely and in the most effective way. most unfortunate that we have such a level of A regional model of health funding would conflict, mistrust and indeed alienation be- build on the strengths of the existing Medi- tween the state health ministers and the fed- care system by combining all government eral Minister for Health and Ageing. As I moneys now directed at health, aged care was also saying, the truth as to who is right and community care into a single pool of and who is wrong, where the money is and funding. That source would bring with it in- how much whoever should be putting in is creased purchasing power and at the same putting in—the truth as to where all the ar- time eliminate the incentives for cost shifting guments finish—is somewhere between what from one level of government to another. I the states and the federal government are believe it would also assist in the reduction claiming. of administrative duplication. I certainly feel that the states should Under this system, funding would be allo- match the Commonwealth funding. Perhaps cated on a per capita basis and also on a spe- if this works—if we have the states and the cific special needs basis. This would go di- Commonwealth putting in the same amount rectly to regional areas and they would then of funding and have that locked in—we use the funds to provide medical, hospital, might in the future see a reduction in long- allied health, aged care and community care term conflict and all those allegations. There services for their populations. Individual is also then the problem of buck-passing and communities could then respond to the spe- cost-shifting between the states and the cific health care priorities within their popu- Commonwealth, which wastes an enormous lations and focus on preventing future health amount of money and resources. This can problems. One of the problems within our only be reduced, if not avoided altogether, if existing system is that it does not reward we involve ourselves in some serious debate prevention; it rewards or pays on the basis of and discussion about reforming our health treatment of illness. Some services would system. still be offered centrally—in particular, high- For a number of years now I have been level care, crisis care for premature babies, advocating the need to restructure the system intensive care facilities et cetera—but base to a regional model. I note with interest that facilities would operate at a regional level. I there is now forming a cooperative group of think there would be a far greater incentive a number of health organisations who are and far greater opportunities for work force also calling on the minister to look at restruc- numbers to be matched with need far better turing our health system. It is still a very than they are now. This regional model fo- good system, but it is a system in which cuses on matching people with health ser- cracks are appearing. The system that I ad- vices, not the other way around. vocate is a regional system of funding for our health services. We would pool Com-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11695

Going back to the Health Care (Appro- and then you get on the next waiting list if priation) Amendment Bill 2003, I believe you actually need an operation. that the states should immediately commit to The Minister for Health and Ageing has matching what the Commonwealth has put had to go looking for excuses to make cuts. on the table and that the Commonwealth They are not based on facts—on the needs of should increase the amount that it is offering our hospitals. She has been told by Treasury to put on the table by the roughly $1 billion that the bottom line is the priority and that that has been deducted over five years. It is she has a certain amount of money to allo- clear that this money has gone. If you look cate where she can within her portfolio. through the forward estimates, in 2003-04 it Hospitals have been put under more pressure is down $108.9 million; in 2004-05 it is mi- by the reduction in bulk-billing rates. As nus $172 million; in 2005-06 it loses $264.6 people face higher and higher costs, they are million; and in 2006-07, $372.9 million less moving over to access the public hospital is being offered. This is a total of $918.5 mil- system. I am only in the process of tabulating lion for the Commonwealth which the gov- the results of my Medicare survey—results ernment calls ‘savings’. I must say here, as are still coming in—but in answer to the others have pointed out, that this is a very question, ‘Have you visited a public hospital similar amount to the $917 million over five accident and emergency service because of years that was announced for the Fairer the cost of visiting a doctor?’ quite a few Medicare package. people in Adelaide have ticked the ‘yes’ box. In this bill there is also a second line of Now we see through the reduction in appropriations for projects or programs, in- funding for public hospitals that the hospitals cluding the Pathways Home program an- are being put under further pressure by the nounced in the budget. I flag again that when government trying to repair the damage they we get to the committee stage of the bill—if have already done through keeping GPs’ we get there—I have some questions that the salaries low. In order to get GPs back in their minister will hopefully be able to answer surgeries with a reasonable level of income, about the Pathways Home program, as the we are seeing public hospitals starved. I will department was not able to answer them dur- not go further into whether what the minister ing estimates. There is also funding for men- is doing in that area will attract GPs back tal health and palliative care. into general practice or attract young gradu- I restate my commitment to an adequately ates to study medicine and go on to train as funded, high-quality public hospital system. general practitioners; that is for the Medicare The level of funding in this bill for our pub- inquiry. We will revisit that entire debate lic hospitals is putting them at risk. There is when that legislation comes before the Sen- clear evidence that it is the responsibility of ate. It will give us some insights into whether public hospitals to provide the broad, 24- what the government is planning to do is hour, highly intensive accident and emer- actually going to work. I close by saying that gency services and the critical care services. I support this bill, but I express my disap- That they have long waiting lists for elective pointment in, firstly, the continuing battle procedures and often for a range of other between the states and the Commonwealth; treatments, including urgent cancer treat- secondly, the reduction in funding the Com- ment, is not in dispute. There can also be a monwealth is offering; and, thirdly, the lack long waiting list for specialist appointments, of interest generally in remodelling our health system to improve the delivery of ap-

CHAMBER 11696 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 propriate services in a timely and cost- On the north-west coast, where I live, effective manner. people are having difficulties finding doctors Senator DENMAN (Tasmania) (6.03 because a lot of the doctors have retired and p.m.)—I rise to make some comments about we have not been able to get replacements. the Health Care (Appropriation) Amendment The local hospital is getting bogged down Bill 2003. I think it is crystal clear to anyone with people who would normally go to see a who has paid attention to the budget this year doctor but cannot afford to see one or cannot that the Commonwealth government has no find one. Those people are going to the out- new money for health. In fact, there is even patients at the local hospital. There is another less money for public hospitals. We knew forecast that I want to pay more attention to, that somehow we had to pay for that war—a given today’s bill. The newly formed Austra- war that so many Australians did not want. lian Health Reform Alliance last Thursday, One way to do this seems to be for the gov- 12 June described our country’s public hos- ernment to provide less money for hospitals pitals as ‘struggling in a spartan environ- and health, forcing Australians to pay more ment’. I will come back to this later. for their health care. But what about the Aus- Let us turn to the bill in front of us. This tralians who cannot afford to pay? As a par- bill will set the framework for the Common- ticipant in the Senate Standing Committee on wealth government’s ongoing contribution to Community Affairs inquiry into poverty and the funding of state public hospitals under financial hardship, I know these Australians the Australian health care agreements. The exist. They exist in numbers much larger current five-year agreement period expires than we would like to think. The Senate pov- on 30 June this year, and the new agreements erty inquiry has revealed devastating ac- commence on 1 July this year for a five-year counts of what it means to be one of the period. This is all very straightforward, and many Australians who struggle on a day-to- the Labor Party support the legislative day basis—and that is without the cost of framework. However, we do not support the seeing a doctor or the cost of seeking health level of funding or the way in which the care. Howard government has found this funding. In contrast to the government, Labor con- In its analysis of the government’s budget, sider the health care of Australians to be Access Economics said: paramount. We promise to put up a huge … the $917 million new spending on Medicare fight—and we are putting up a fight— almost exactly matches the $918 million cut to against any measures that unravel a system public hospitals in the new Medicare agreement that delivers quality health care to all Austra- … the Government plans to cut public hospital lians regardless of income. Forecasts for our spending and divert the savings to initiatives to current health system are rather gloomy. You increase bulk billing under Medicare and train have probably heard it before: bulk-billing doctors. rates are dropping at significant rates, we are The government is finding the money to fund headed for a doctor and specialist work force its unfair Medicare package by taking money shortage and so on. Patients are paying more away from other health priorities—this time, to see doctors, and soon it may very well be our public hospitals. This is not good enough the case that they will be lucky to find a doc- at a time when public hospital waiting lists tor, unless we do something now. around Australia have not decreased and we have not seen a reduction in the number of admissions to public hospitals since the in-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11697 troduction of the private health insurance surviving in a spartan environment and the incentives. Patients are still relying on our effect of this unfortunately will be that Aus- public hospitals, even though, as noted in the tralians who cannot afford private hospitals Bills Digest on this bill, since the introduc- and have to rely on public hospitals will re- tion of the private health insurance incen- ceive a quality of care that is compromised tives, private hospital admissions have in- due to this pressure. creased substantially. And why are we taking money away from Commentary from doctors suggests that, our public hospitals? To fund the govern- as patients are finding it harder to see a bulk- ment’s unfair Medicare package—a package billing doctor, more patients are going to our that will offer incentives to doctors to bulk- public hospitals for immediate medical atten- bill pensioners and concession card holders tion or are delaying seeing a doctor at all and only. In the eyes of the government, other then ending up in the emergency wards of struggling Australians without a health care our hospitals. At this time it is not a respon- or concession card can fend for them- sible or fair measure for the government to selves—and fending for themselves is going take money away from our public hospitals to be more difficult as the AMA has con- when they are so heavily under pressure. firmed that, as a result of the government’s And it could be argued that it is the govern- scheme, doctors are likely to increase their ment’s lack of commitment to the universal- charges. This package is going to make a ity of bulk-billing that directly contributes to visit to the doctor difficult unless you have this pressure. the money to pay. The Labor Party looks This pressure is being felt all around the forward to strongly opposing this package country. Earlier this month, St John Ambu- when we come to debate it. lance services director, Bob Barker, com- Returning to today’s bill, the approach of mented that about four times over the past the government in its negotiations with the few months in Perth they have had to bypass states and territories on our new health care one of the city’s hospitals. On about six oc- agreements has not been inspiring. On two casions all tertiary hospitals have asked to be occasions Minister Patterson has refused to avoided. This was because the emergency attend ministerial meetings to discuss the departments of those hospitals were too busy. agreements. What could have been an oppor- Also, during one of the nights in May of this tunity for the Commonwealth, state and terri- year, four big public hospitals in Sydney tory ministers to work on much-needed were forced to turn away all ambulances structural reform in our health system has apart from those bearing patients with life- instead been a lost opportunity. The Com- threatening conditions. monwealth government has offered an ulti- I use these examples—and other examples matum to the states that will, in effect, mean can easily be found—to show that our public less money for public hospitals. We are all hospitals simply cannot cope with the num- eagerly awaiting the next meeting between ber of patients that are relying on them for the ministers on 31 July to see how this medical attention. Our public hospitals need agreement can be resolved. more money, not less money. Therefore, it Labor oppose this bill today as we seems very strange timing for the govern- strongly believe in delivering better health ment to take away money from our public outcomes for all Australians. We have a re- hospital system. Our public hospitals are sponsibility to ensure that our public hospi-

CHAMBER 11698 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 tals are able to provide quality health care to services are being starved of funds and this is all Australians. We do not believe that a bill why the coalition appears to be subverting that takes away $918 million from public Medicare. hospitals is the way to achieve this. The big stick is the World Trade Organisa- Senator HARRIS (Queensland) (6.12 tion’s General Agreement on Trade in Ser- p.m.)—I rise to contribute to the second vices. This agreement is transforming ser- reading debate on the Health Care (Appro- vices such as health care into tradable com- priation) Amendment Bill 2003 and indicate modities. Service sector jobs including per- to the chamber that it is One Nation’s posi- sonal services like health care could be sent tion that a government, once elected, ought overseas and provided electronically, while to have a surety of supply. It is on that basis service sector workers can be imported to that One Nation will support the bill, but we provide care for less money with fewer la- will also point out some of the areas of con- bour protections. Once a country commits a cern that have been raised. sector to GATS, it cannot reverse or intro- The government is removing money from duce new measures that would violate the health in one sector and transferring it into a agreement’s far-reaching restrictions on gov- different area. It is claimed that this appro- ernment oversight and intervention. priation will provide a 17 per cent increase in The government declares that it has made funding, but the states and territories have no commitment to GATS in relation to health pointed out that it has been a decrease of care, but the running down of our national $918.5 million. You do not have to be Ein- health care system is merely setting it up to stein to work out where the money has gone be privatised via GATS. That is typical of when you see that the Fairer Medicare pack- what a government does when it wants to age is worth approximately $916.7 million. sell an asset. It lets it wind down to the ex- So why is the government cutting the health tent that it is not worth saving and it is care budget and whittling away Medicare? handed to the private sector on a silver plat- These are two of the most common questions ter—and then come the increases to custom- that are asked by constituents throughout ers. Transforming health care into a tradable Queensland. good requires transforming the way govern- The subversion of public health insurance ments structure and regulate it. When Austra- and the deepening cuts into health care lia signed on to GATS, negotiated under La- budgets are part of a global phenomenon, a bor, we agreed to make it easier for foreign worldwide trend towards privatisation of the service corporations to compete in the do- health care sector. Canada, New Zealand, the mestic market. Also, subject to a wide array US, the Netherlands, Papua New Guinea, of laws and consumer and worker safe- Austria, Germany and Britain, to name a guards, we agreed to scrutiny by interna- few, have slashed health funds in recent tional tribunals whose proceedings are closed times and this government is slavish in fol- to the public. WTO members agree that gov- lowing the trend. Multinationals are actively ernment regulations in these areas must not lobbying for the deregulation of public interfere with the abilities of foreign corpora- health care under GATS. They want to con- tions to compete, even if such regulations trol health care, a very profitable and lucra- treat foreign and domestic hospitals, schools tive business. The institutions of the welfare and utilities as the same. It will not be long state are to be scrapped. This is why health before GATS negotiators consider a strict test for regulations that could put the burden

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11699 on governments to prove that health care and or public health activities—all chronic losers other regulations are necessary. from a business point of view. The WTO has already identified key What we are seeing here in Australia is the health regulations as inherent barriers to in- development of a two-tier system which is ternational trade. For health care profession- aligned with GATS. The for-profit sector will als, these regulations ensure quality and pro- cream off healthy and wealthy patients, pub- fessionalism and more equitable access to lic subsidies and staff, leaving the reduced services. To corporations and their champi- public sector to deal with emergencies, to ons in the WTO they are obstacles to trade train staff and to cope with the elderly and and they must be weakened. Under GATS, the chronically sick and poor—the ones who rules on domestic regulation and licensing need health care more. It is not just at the requirements can interfere with foreign hospital level but also at the general practice workers and provide for competition in the level. There will be one tier for people who service sector. To health care professionals hold Commonwealth concession cards and and customers, the quality control and over- one for those who do not. This creates the sight provided by professional licensing of likelihood of a two-level general practitioner doctors, nurses, paraprofessionals and health system: one for those GPs who, through their care facilities is a key consumer protection. practice demographics, either are forced to or In order to achieve the trade goals of import- can afford to opt into bulk-billing for card- ing foreign workers and providers—we have holders and another for a group of general seen an example of that recently with Telstra practitioners whose practice, population or importing foreign workers under GATS natu- business practices limit their ability to main- ral persons provisions—the WTO has called tain a viable business by opting in. The poli- for recognition of foreign licensing require- cies of the current federal government are ments as equivalent to one’s own, even if the driving us towards a more privatised health foreign requirements are substantively system, leaving the public system as a very weaker. poor cousin. Consider this in the context of the nursing The government is shifting costs and re- shortage here in Australia. Provider associa- sponsibilities to the private sector. The issue tions will be agitated to import workers from of cost shifting between federal and state overseas so that they can pay less. To the governments remains unresolved. In Queen- extent that licensing requirements interfere sland, the outpatient and paediatrics clinics at with the flow of labour, industries will be the Maryborough Hospital have been shut pushing hard for Australia to recognise for- down. Closing down these clinics means that eign standards that may be lower. If GATS is new and follow-up patients have to be seen revised so as to require domestic regulations in specialists’ private rooms or by staff spe- to be less burdensome to trade and even pro- cialists in private practice clinics. This is competitive, principles which underlie health privatisation by stealth. Regarding pharma- care being accessible to all could be re- ceuticals, the Queensland government has stricted. Cross-subsidising—through which encouraged hospitals to move patients out as one service effectively subsidises another— day patients. When the patient returns to ac- is such a principle. There would be no place cess the hospital, the cost of pharmaceuticals for uncompensating health care, unprofitable is shifted to the federal government. This is admissions to hospitals, research, education one reason why there are now such short stays in hospitals. Patients should not be-

CHAMBER 11700 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 come yoyos as a result of the fiscal policies fective delivery, adequate funding, fairness at of federal and state governments. work and equality of access. There can be no The government may be funnelling money other alternative but to reject the WTO’s pre- out of this appropriation and into A Fairer scription for privatisation—reject it outright. Medicare, but the doctors, surprisingly—and The message has been carried very clearly in it is surprising to me—do not like it. I have the responses of my constituents that to save contacted more than 2,000 doctors in Queen- the public health system we must pressure sland alone, and the responses that I have our representatives to withdraw Australia received so far indicate that they are totally from the WTO without delay and cancel our against the Fairer Medicare package, with membership. It can be done. All it takes is an the exception of doctors in remote rural ar- act of parliament. As I said earlier, One Na- eas, for whom it would be an advantage. The tion will support the bill, but only because government’s package would see the need to One Nation and the people of Queensland seek doctors from overseas who would be believe that, once a government is elected, willing to practise for a pittance. Again, this that government should be assured of supply. is GATS in action. Senator CROSSIN (Northern Territory) As I commented earlier, as we privatise (6.27 p.m.)—I rise this evening to comment our hospitals we create a situation where on the impact of the Health Care (Appropria- corporations are forced to move or they tion) Amendment Bill 2003 on the Northern choose to move into only the areas of higher Territory. This bill seeks to amend the Health profitability. We then end up with a situation Care (Appropriation) Act. It is, of course, the where private hospitals provide extensively means by which the government is able to in those areas where there are considerable have moneys appropriated in this parliament margins and the public sector are left to pro- and a means by which the provision of health vide for those that are less profitable. As I care is provided, under a legislative basis, for said earlier, on a profit and loss basis, hospi- grants of financial assistance under the Aus- tal admissions, research that does not result tralian health care agreements. The amend- in a positive outcome and the education of ments to the original bill extend the opera- our doctors and nurses are all areas of tion of the act for a second five-year period chronic loss from a business point of view. commencing in a few weeks time, on 1 July The government’s attempt to shift costs to 2003. This bill enables the Commonwealth the private sector is not being done in an eq- to enter into a new Australian health care uitable manner. Only the highly profitable agreement and, one would argue, to maintain areas are being shifted across and our public funding to the states, pending settlement of hospitals are being left disproportionately any existing agreements. As I said, this bill worse off. provides the legislative basis for grants of financial assistance for the provision of hos- For ordinary people, this budget continues pital services or projects or programs that the relentless process of gutting public health will be conducted during the coming five in order to transfer vast resources to private years starting 1 July 2003. This extends these health companies. One Nation believes that agreements for a second five-year period. we must retain publicly funded health and publicly provided health care services. We There are other minor legislative changes must modernise and improve them on the in terms of the administrative arrangements principles of democratic accountability, ef- of this act, but the fundamental issue about this act and the issue that has been the source

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11701 of much attention around the nation for the health care agreements. Let us have a look at last few months is the appropriation from the what some of the state and territory ministers consolidated revenue fund of an amount, have had to say. They say that the key prin- according to this bill, not exceeding $42 bil- ciples that should underpin the Australian lion for hospital services provided. On the health care agreements include: face of that one might say that that is a fair * Maintaining and developing Australia’s health amount of money and a fair commitment care system based on the Medicare principles of from the federal government. But if you have universality, equity and access; a look at the history of this health care * Maintaining and developing the key compo- agreement you will know that this is in fact nents of Australia’s health care system, including $1 billion short of what the federal govern- Medicare, sustainable public hospital-related ser- ment had promised state and territory minis- vices, the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, aged ters. care services and the public health system in general; and I will give a bit of background to what this is going to mean for states and territories, not * Recognition that the policy decisions of the Commonwealth do not exist in a vacuum and can least of all for the Northern Territory. The have serious consequences for State and Terri- states and territories have had many discus- tory-based health services. sions and meetings with the federal minister, In respect of the Northern Territory, the con- Kay Patterson—when, of course, she bothers sequences are severe. A $1 billion cut from to attend—in relation to the details of this this health care agreement or $1 billion not funding. On 2 May this year, a joint commu- realised as promised by the federal govern- nique was distributed by the state and terri- ment—a federal government that has refused tory health ministers. It says: to ensure an additional $1 billion in its health Federal Health Minister Kay Patterson today con- reform package—so an agreement that confirmed the Commonwealth’s health care funding sists of $42 billion rather than $43 billion, offer represented a $1 billion real cut to the States and Territories. translates to a shortfall in the Northern Terri- tory of $16 million. The impact of this gov- Of course health ministers unanimously re- ernment not realising its promises under the jected this offer at a meeting in Canberra on state and territory health care agreement is a 2 May 2003, a meeting that was held to dis- shortfall of $16 million in relation to the cuss the next Australian health care agree- Northern Territory. This government would ments. Ministers from the states and territo- say: ‘All right. States and territories now ries went on to say that in the federal budget have to make up that funding shortfall them- this year there is an attempt by this govern- selves. They now have to put on the table a ment to kill Medicare and that the health commitment for money to make up the dif- minister has ‘tried to bury public hospitals’. ference. We have taken our hands off the The state and territory ministers have contin- wheel here. We are not going to take full ued their fight for the right of ordinary Aus- responsibility for funding your public hospi- tralians to affordable and accessible health tal system. You’ve got to find some of the care following the federal government’s money yourself.’ move to dismantle Medicare, as we saw in the announcements of the budget some Let us have a look, though, at a profile of weeks ago, and the real cut in funding to the the Northern Territory. Eighty per cent of the states of the money that is to be appropriated funding by which the Northern Territory through this bill to the state and territory government has to operate comes from the

CHAMBER 11702 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 federal government by virtue of the fact that system is fully resourced, funded and sup- we are a territory and not a state. In the other ported. states, Commonwealth moneys coming to Let us put on top of that the complicated the state are around the 40 per cent mark. We layer of statistics we have for Indigenous in the Northern Territory rely very signifi- health. I do not have those statistics with me cantly on the money that is appropriated here tonight—that will incur another 20- through the Commonwealth government. minute speech at another time. Everybody When you have a shortfall of $16 million in knows that Indigenous people rely very the Northern Territory, you have to ask your- heavily on the public health system and the self where or how do you find that shortfall public hospital system. That is the only sys- when you already rely on 80 per cent of your tem they rely on. We know the figures when funding coming from the Commonwealth for it comes to Indigenous health across a whole all services across the board. range of issues—renal health, diabetes, heart The other thing in the Northern Territory disease, rheumatic fever and even access to is that there is one private hospital based in the provision of specialists to assist with a Darwin offering a very, very limited range of whole range of other areas. They are a total services. It does not offer an intensive care group of our population that rely 100 per service or a neonatal intensive care service. cent on the public hospital system. It offers very limited services in terms of We have a government here that want to emergency procedures or extensive and get state and territory ministers to sign up to complicated procedures. By and large, the a state and territory health care agreement fact that you have private health care cover that has $1 billion less than they had prom- in the Northern Territory can mean very little ised originally, which has a dramatic impact if you live in a remote community, if you on the Northern Territory to the tune of $16 live on one of the islands or if you live in a million. The states, as I understand it, are place like Tennant Creek, Alice Springs or pushing ahead. An article in the Canberra Gove. There is very little benefit in having Times last Saturday said that state and terri- private health insurance. Therefore we can- tory health ministers voted only last Friday not have an answer that simply says: ‘We to continue their campaign to ensure that this will take the strain off public hospitals and agreement is not signed and that they will encourage people to go to a private hospi- press ahead with further discussions to try to tal—that is the answer. Reduce the money get this government to understand that there from the public hospitals and put the onus is a need to ensure that the public hospital and the responsibility onto a private hospital. system and the public health system are ade- People will then go to a private hospital. It quately funded. I understand that, in relation will take the strain off the public hospital.’ It to the $1 billion less than promised for does not work like that in the Northern Terri- health, the federal government are claiming tory—never has, never will—because of the that the extra money is not needed because lack of private hospitals, the lack of access to the private health insurance rebate is easing the provision of private services and the ex- the burden on the public hospital system. treme overreliance that all of the public in That is not an excuse, when you look at the the Northern Territory have on the public profile of the health system in the Northern health system. They have a reliance on the Territory and the reliance on the public federal government supporting them and health system in the Northern Territory. committing to ensuring that the public health

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11703

Let us just take an example of what has blame for all of this at the feet of my col- been happening in the Northern Territory in league Minister Jane Aagaard in the North- the last six months in relation to health. We ern Territory government and is suggesting know that this year’s budget—the 2003 that the new and refurbished accident and budget—shows a withdrawal of funding emergency department that was planned un- from the public hospitals. It is already in the der the Country Liberal Party has not gone forward estimates, and it is to fund the so- ahead and at fault is the Labor Party since it called A Fairer Medicare package. Instead of came into government in 2001. recognising the pressure that emergency de- As Minister Aagaard was able to reveal on partments in public hospitals face, this gov- 30 April during a debate in the Legislative ernment is diminishing the funding to public Assembly in the Northern Territory, the acci- hospitals by $918 million over four years. dent and emergency section has been rebuilt We know that emergency departments in and has been refurbished and, yes, there is a private hospitals are overloaded simply due delay in opening it. It is not going to be to the fact that Australians, and in particular opened in the coming weeks as planned, and Territorians, are finding it harder to see a why is that? It is because the Country Liberal doctor who bulk-bills. Of course, we do not Party were so inept and so negligent in their have an emergency department at a private forward planning that in their forward esti- hospital in the Northern Territory. Our people mates and budgets they simply budgeted for up there, everybody up there—Indigenous a building to be built and not for any ongoing and non-Indigenous people—are solely reli- recurrent costs. They put no money aside in ant on the public hospital system. We know the following years for staffing, aircondition- in the Northern Territory that 90 per cent of ing or equipment. The Country Liberal Party patients who are presenting to the Royal were only able to find money for a building. Darwin Hospital’s accident and emergency There was no money for forward on-costs, section each night after the hours of six for forward operating costs. And they now o’clock are presenting with non-emergency seek to lay the blame at Minister Aagaard’s assistance—that is, the accident and emer- feet for the fact that this A and E department gency departments at the Royal Darwin is not going to be opened on schedule; they Hospital and, more than likely, the Alice want to lay the blame for all of that at the Springs Hospital are full of patients that pre- feet of the Labor government in the Northern sent with GP related and minor problems. Territory. Not only is this is a Country Lib- The changes that the Howard government eral Party that could not manage their own are proposing will simply place a further health system up there; they cannot even burden on our already overworked public seem to manage their own leadership prob- hospitals. Parents with sick children are wait- lems at this point in time. ing at the hospital for hours at night simply We have a chronic situation in the North- because they cannot afford to see a doctor ern Territory when it comes to access to doc- during the day or the few doctors who bulk- tors and to services. People are going to the bill in the Northern Territory are booked for public hospital after hours because they can- several days in advance. The situation in the not afford to go to a doctor. There are no Northern Territory is literally at crisis point. doctors who bulk-bill in the Northern Terri- We have, of course, the outrageous situation tory who are taking on new patients. The where the shadow minister for health in the situation is at crisis point. Therefore, in order Northern Territory, Sue Carter, is laying the to get attention for your children after hours

CHAMBER 11704 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 for minor problems, you have to present We have a bill before us that wants to ap- yourself at the hospital. As I said, 90 per cent propriate money to the state and territory of the people who present themselves to the governments—$1 billion less than was ini- accident and emergency departments in tially promised—and the impact of that is Darwin and Alice Springs are not presenting $16 million less for the Northern Territory. because they have been in an accident or As I said before, in the Northern Territory we they have an emergency; they have GP re- have a situation where the Country Liberal lated problems. In the Territory our public Party is happy to point the finger at the La- hospital is bottlenecked; it is crammed. It is bor Party locally for the problems at the ac- at crisis point. On top of that, we have a fed- cident and emergency department, but those eral government that wants to sign up to a problems stem from Canberra. The problems state and territory health care agreement that are initiated here by this federal govern- has $16 million less in its bucket of funding ment—a federal government which is refus- for the Northern Territory. As well, it pur- ing to accept the fact that this agreement ports to have released A Fairer Medicare does not give the state and territory ministers package that is going to relieve the burden the money they need to have a decently on people in the Northern Territory. It simply funded public health system, a decently pub- will not. licly funded public hospital system. That $16 I recently conducted a survey in Palm- million less for the Northern Territory is a erston, which is a large city outside of Dar- huge amount when it comes to looking after win, and although not surprised at the re- the needs of Indigenous and non-Indigenous sponses regarding the decline in the bulk- people there. We already rely on the Com- billing rate I was alarmed at the fact that 67 monwealth for 80 per cent of our funding. per cent of the people said that there had We do not have a private system on which been occasions when they had deliberately we can rely; we are solely reliant on the pub- not been to see a doctor because of the pro- lic hospital system. This is a government hibitive cost. So 67 per cent of people were which refuses to acknowledge that, refuses to telling me that they do not go to a doctor fund the public hospital system properly and because of the cost of visiting that doctor. So refuses to ensure that the Northern Territory what do they do? They wait till after hours. government has got the resources it needs to They wait till after 4.21 p.m. and present at provide a fair, equitable and accessible health the accident and emergency department of care system to everybody in the Northern Royal Darwin Hospital. They are prepared to Territory, no matter the size of their wallet sit there, along with 90 per cent of the other and no matter where they live in the North- patients who turn up, for hours at a time to ern Territory. see someone. They present if they feel sick Senator PATTERSON (Victoria— in the stomach, if they have the flu, if they Minister for Health and Ageing) (6.47 have a headache or if they have other minor p.m.)—I believe I only have about 2½ min- symptoms that should be treated on a day-to- utes to speak, so I might just reply to what day basis by GPs—if this government took Senator Crossin has said. It is always inter- hold of the health care system in this country, esting to hear people make comments—you shaped it and formed it and produced some- can always twist things to make them fit the thing that was actually meeting the needs of story you want to present—but Senator the Australian public. Crossin failed to acknowledge that, since coming to government, the Howard govern-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11705 ment has almost doubled funding to Indige- That the Senate do now adjourn. nous health services. As Senator Crossin Australian Security Intelligence knows, a significant number of people in the Organisation Legislation Northern Territory—especially in very re- Senator CHRIS EVANS (Western Aus- mote areas like Katherine and a number of tralia) (6.51 p.m.)—I just want to make some other areas which I will not go through but brief remarks on how pleased I am that the which I have visited—have had their health Australian Security Intelligence Organisation services significantly improved as a result of Legislation Amendment (Terrorism) Bill the coalition increasing the funding and al- 2002 [No. 2] has been carried by the Senate most doubling it. because I think it is an important piece of It is very easy to come into the chamber legislation. It does reflect, I think, certainly and make quick, cheap points about what the from the Labor Party’s point of view, the Commonwealth is not doing without actually need for that original legislation—which was indicating what it is doing. Some of the other totally unacceptable—to be rejected and for speakers here today—and maybe I should go amendments to have been made to make it a into this debate in more detail tomorrow much more balanced piece of legislation. It morning so that my speech looks a bit more balances the need for the security of Austra- coherent in one piece—have said that money lians and the need for ASIO to be able to has been taken out of the health care agree- exercise its role in combating terrorism with ments. I absolutely refute that. The Com- protecting the rights of our citizens. monwealth has in fact offered $10 billion It is a difficult balance at the best of times, more. That is a 17 per cent increase over and but I think that, in the legislation now before above inflation from the current health care the parliament, the Senate will have played a agreements. How that can be taking money very useful role in trying to make sure that out of the health system beggars belief—a 17 we have got that balance right. I have re- per cent increase. It does not matter; the peo- ceived a lot of representations from constitu- ple on the other side still make the comment ents about these issues. I know there is a lot that it is taking money out of the health sys- of concern that we do get the balance right. I tem. We actually gave the state health system congratulate Senator John Faulkner, our par- a $2.5 billion windfall in the life of the last liamentary leader, on the work he and his agreement. I have not heard one member on staff have put in to try to make sure that we the other side get up and say that. They say get a much better piece of legislation than we are taking money out when it is a 17 per was originally proposed. cent increase over and above inflation in the next five years. How that is a decrease beg- General Douglas MacArthur Brisbane gars belief. They do not mention that there Memorial Trust was a $2.5 billion windfall to the states when Aviation: Bakers Creek Air Crash we did not claw back funding, as agreed in Senator SANTORO (Queensland) (6.52 the life of the last health care agreement. p.m.)—The great project to establish a Mac- ADJOURNMENT Arthur Museum in Brisbane, in the very The ACTING DEPUTY PRESIDENT place where the general had his office during (Senator Knowles)—Order! There being no World War II, has marked two very signifi- consideration of government documents, I cant milestones recently. There was a signifi- propose the question: cant victory on budget night—a further victory indeed for General Douglas MacArthur.

CHAMBER 11706 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

The Howard Government agreed to provide ground we may come, are protected by that $350,000 towards the development of the heritage and, by our actions and our way of MacArthur Museum in the Heritage listed governing ourselves, we protect it in its turn. MacArthur Chambers site in central Bris- We are a proud and very effective part of that bane. The other milestone was the handing global enlightenment. over by the Brisbane City Council to the Sixty years ago, at a time of great peril, General Douglas MacArthur Brisbane Me- Australia and America stood shoulder to morial Trust of the MacArthur Museum floor shoulder in the Pacific to beat back tyranny. site. This handover took place at City Hall in The bonds we forged then between our na- Brisbane just last week. tions still endure and will, I believe, endure It was of course from the premises in Ed- forever, just as will our bonds with Britain. ward Street that General MacArthur directed You might indeed say that we are part—a the Allied war effort in the South-West Pa- proud and independent part—of an enduring cific during the dark days of 1942 to 1944 empire. The empire of decency, democracy when Australia was under direct enemy and common law, the rule of law, the su- threat and actual attack—and in my part of premacy of the ballot box and the determina- Australia, Queensland, particularly so. We tion to stand up for those in peril from others must always remember our history, for his- are all things that we share. They are an in- tory is not just a collection of dry facts but delible part of our shared history and com- indeed the story of our nation’s life. It is a mon culture. Let no-one ever get away with proud story and none more proud than the saying that time and events have reduced part in which the Americans played such a these gifts we hold in common and in trust significant and, indeed, a lifesaving part dur- for future generations to the status of a his- ing the Pacific war, from 1941 to 1945. torical footnote or the irrelevance of a mar- Tonight I want to give honourable sena- ginal comment. tors an overview of this magnificent project At this time 60 years on we are again and also place on the record the thanks that shoulder to shoulder with the Americans and are due to a great many people whose dedi- the British in defence of liberty and the cation, energy and fortitude have brought the global assault on murderous terror. The project to its present point—and I will come events that have so shockingly opened the back to that in a minute. I thought too that 21st century add a particular poignancy and a this would be an appropriate time to make pointed relevance to our celebration of the some comments about friends and great cause in which we, the Americans and neighbours, about steadfast allies and brave ourselves, made a stand together six decades defenders of democracy. It is an appropriate ago. Projects such as the MacArthur Mu- time too to say a little about the heritage that seum give a much needed and very valuable the great English, Scots, Welsh and Irish di- public dimension to these links. aspora of the past four centuries has brought On completion of the building works at us. It is time to say something about how we MacArthur Chambers, the MacArthur Mu- 21st century Australians have benefited so seum will be open to the public as a managed greatly from the global dispersion of Eng- wartime display. It will be an integral part of lish-speaking and Gaelic-speaking people Brisbane’s Living Heritage Network. Public and the precepts that brought democracy and interest in and educational exposure to Aus- true people’s rule to the wide swathes of our tralia’s heritage, Brisbane’s military history planet. We in Australia, from whatever back-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11707 and Queensland’s tourist sites are increas- encouraged me to never give up on pursuing ingly evident in both our own and the inter- financial and other support for the project. national community. This is indeed an idea Those who value the MacArthur Museum whose time has come. project, I am sure, value Mr Thomas’s inter- The idea of course is not just to create a est in and support for it. memorial to one fixed time in history. The Also on the steering committee is Mr MacArthur Museum, and indeed the whole Geoff Rodgers, Managing Director of the MacArthur Chambers project, will go be- Rowland Communications Group, who is yond a public display of Brisbane’s involve- deputy chairman. I have previously in this ment in the critical phase of the war in the place recognised by name the other members South-West Pacific. It will add immeasura- of the steering committee and I again pay bly, in my view, to the rich portfolio of sites tribute to them tonight. In particular, I men- in Brisbane’s Living Heritage Network and tion two other individuals: Lieutenant Colo- social history. It will raise awareness of the nel J.P. Dwyer AM, who is the executive heritage sector and its valuable contribution officer, and the Patron of the General Doug- to the city of Brisbane. It will provide a fo- las MacArthur Brisbane Memorial Trust, cus on the historical awareness of visitors Major General Peter Arnison, the Governor and the community, particularly our youth. It of Queensland. I again recognise that the will provide a central point for military re- Queensland government and the Brisbane search and study. It will link sites such as the City Council have been behind the project Australian War Memorial, Queensland’s from the start and, of course, so has the fed- John Oxley Library, the Queensland Univer- eral government, as has been newly demon- sity of Technology, the MacArthur Founda- strated by the $350,000 grant made available tion in the USA and other military history in the recent federal budget. related sites. The chairman of trustees is Sir Leo Hiel- That the project has got to this point and scher, Chairman of the Queensland Treasury will now move on to fruition is to the great Corporation. The other trustees are the Pre- credit of a large number of people. In par- mier of Queensland, the Hon. Peter Beattie, ticular, it is appropriate to mention the steer- retired US Major William A. Bentson, Major ing committee which is chaired by Major General Digger James, Dr Leo Keliher as General M. Blake AO, MC. In the context of Director-General of the Premier’s depart- the steering committee, I want particularly to ment, and Mr Ken Talbot of MacArthur give credit to my friend Mr Geoff Thomas, Coal. It should also be placed on the record Chairman of CapitalCorp Financial Services that the MacArthur family in America has and, as well, Queensland’s Special Commis- given permission for the family name to be sioner to the United States, where his politi- used in the Brisbane project. Under the cal and business connections are impeccable. development program, establishment of the Mr Thomas is truly a quiet achiever. He is full museum is contingent on recurrent also a very hard man to say no to, as will funding, although the refurbishment of the have become obvious very quickly to those MacArthur Chambers site commenced in late he tirelessly lobbied on behalf of this great 2001 under commercial developers. project. He approached me about the MacAr- Phase 1 includes the restoration of Gen- thur Museum 2½ years ago and provided me eral MacArthur’s World War II office and with additional awareness of the project. refurbishment of the eighth-floor museum. Throughout this period he has pushed and

CHAMBER 11708 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

The MacArthur Museum project has a target tralia for that occasion in Brisbane last week. of $1.7 million to establish the displays. For The ‘Bakers Creek Pilgrims’ were led by many years there has been public interest in Alvin ‘Mo’ and Vera Berg, from Texas. I providing recognition of the presence in hope that the true Australian, true Queen- Brisbane of General Douglas MacArthur and sland, hospitality we showed the participants the headquarters of Allied forces in the will be a fond memory for them. There was a South-West Pacific area during 1942 to solemn purpose to the visit. On Saturday, 14 1944, a crucial period in Australia’s history. June a memorial was dedicated at the crash The MacArthur Museum project is a fine site and the scale model of the B17-C was example of the kind of historically based, placed on a plinth there. A report of the occa- built-environment concept that deserves full sion and photographs can be viewed at support and whose proponents and backers www.ozatwar.com, a website operated by deserve full credit. Peter Dunn. Among Americans also present Also tonight I want to say a few words were John B. ‘Skip’ Hall Jr, a retired United about another aspect of Queensland’s indeli- States Air Force lieutenant general, who lives ble connection with the events of the Pacific near Washington; Robert S. Cutler, professor, War—the Bakers Creek air crash in 1943, management of technology, at George Wash- which killed 40 people and is still, 60 years ington University; and Eileen A. Malloy, later, Australia’s worst air disaster. Because United States Consul General in Sydney. In of wartime censorship the story of the the party, too, were Professor David Myers, crash—it was an accident, not resulting from publisher and founder of Central Queensland enemy action—was to all intents and pur- University Press; Mrs Jan Cardwell, man- poses suppressed. It was suppressed to the ager, customer service at CQU Press; and Air extent that the relatives of the dead— Commodore Stewart Cameron of the RAAF, Americans—never actually knew what had Commander Combat Support Group at Am- happened to their loved ones and even where berley near Ipswich. Once again we are re- they met their deaths. minded of the deep and abiding links between our country and America. These links In recent years the story of the tragic crash are tremendously important and span the has been brought into public view, and generations. They will endure. We shall all strong links have been established between be grateful for that in the years to come. the RSL in Mackay and an American group formed in 2000, the Bakers Creek Memorial Aviation: Karratha and Port Hedland Association. The purpose of the association Airports is to publicise the Bakers Creek air crash Senator COOK (Western Australia) (7.03 story in the United States; to assist the work p.m.)—I rise tonight to talk about a quite of the Mackay RSL historian, Col Benson, to serious problem that is faced by two of our locate family relatives of the B-17C crash great north-west cities in Western Australia, victims; and to raise funds to donate a scale the cities of Karratha and Port Hedland. Last model replica B-17C to the Bakers Creek week I visited both centres. Both centres are Memorial near Mackay for the 60th anniver- thriving and there is a strong outlook for sary commemoration. their local economies. The important element The 60th anniversary went ahead as of both cities is that they are located in an scheduled last weekend and I had the honour area where Australia’s great resource devel- of meeting the American party here in Aus- opment projects are located. Karratha is the main residential dormitory centre for the

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11709

North West Shelf, and all the offshore devel- dedication and for their skill. Their skill and opment associated with that, and for the training is about suburban and country fire- Hamersley iron port of Dampier, which fighting. The extra level of skill necessary to serves the inland mining towns of Parabur- deal with airport fires based around aviation doo and Tom Price. Port Hedland is the main movements is another matter. They would centre for BHP’s mining operation and require extra training in order to bring them- serves the inland mining centre of Newman. selves up to the necessary skill level to deal Karratha and Port Hedland are the major with airport fires. Those resources will have export earners for resource earnings from to be found from the local community. foreign trade in Australia and they are quite At the Karratha airport the response time sensitive from a national security point of is about 90 seconds, according to an out- view. Their link to the rest of Australia and standing figure in the north-west of Western the outside world is mostly through their Australia, the President of the Roebourne airports, although they are served by road Shire, Kevin Richards. The firefighting unit and by sea as well. But their airports are the at the airport can respond to any fire on the key link. I discovered on my trip that, by premises within that time. If the airport has virtue of a cynical cost-cutting decision by to obtain the fire service from the town of the federal government, the fire brigade ser- Karratha, which is located some distance vices provided to the airports are to be ter- from the airport, then it could take up to 45 minated on 30 June. minutes, since it is a volunteer service. The Airservices Australia charged airlines a same is true if one applies those figures to levy on a landed tonne basis to provide for the major centre of Port Hedland. If there is a the fire brigade services at the airports. As a fire disaster at either of the airports, there result of a CASA regulation, inspired by the will be a much longer wait—a considerable cost-cutting approach of this government, the wait—before there will be the ability to deal threshold passenger load for each airport has with and remedy that situation, and during been raised to 350,000 passengers, well be- that time any amount of devastation could be yond what the airports at Karratha and Port wreaked. Hedland currently bear. Karratha has a pas- I said that at Karratha the annual passen- senger load factor of about 170,000 passenger load factor was about 170,000 passenger movements a year and Port Hedland has gers. This is a centre where most of the fly- a passenger load factor of 80,000 passenger in, fly-out passengers come to serve on the movements per year at the present time, al- offshore oil rigs. So now a key work force though I will say something about those fig- dealing with an international exporting ven- ures in a moment. So putting the bar at ture like the North West Shelf is to land at an 350,000 passengers means that the airlines airport without a proper airport fire service. will not collect the levy and, as a conse- That is a concern in itself. Of course, I would quence, the dedicated firefighting facilities at prefer that the work force lived in Karratha, both airports are to be terminated. but the fly-in, fly-out situation is an option The only alternative now for any fire- that the company has exercised. fighting necessary at the airports is to call The other thing is that, in determining upon the town based volunteer fire services. what the passenger load factor might be for People work for these fire services on a vol- the airport—and the figure has been raised to unteer basis. I have great admiration for their 350,000—CASA does not consider helicop-

CHAMBER 11710 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 ter movements. Rotary-wing movements are land to successfully conclude an interna- not counted for the sake of this figure; only tional charter agreement with Indonesian fixed-wing movements are counted. There- airlines to bolster the regional economy. To fore, all of the passenger traffic—which is not face up to the need to provide an airline quite considerable—to the offshore oil rigs service in the case of both Karratha and Port and to nearby Barrow Island by helicopter is Hedland ignores the very sensitive national not included for the sake of this calculation. security issues for both of those centres, but Only a Canberra bureaucrat, not someone it is also a brake on their development and that lives in the north-west, could come up means a higher cost and a levy for people with that sort of grotesque calculation. Only living in the north-west of Western Australia. someone not associated with the difficulties With this government I always say, ‘Don’t that north-west people find in moving around listen to what they say; watch what they do.’ Australia could come up with that sort of In watching what they do here, we see a calculation. Nonetheless, they have—and, as clear case of a particular penalty being ap- a consequence, the funds are not going to be plied to those Australians who perform the available. role of developing this wonderful country of I said that Port Hedland’s passenger load ours, living in remote areas of Australia and factor at the present time was 80,000 passen- working to develop Australia. Robyn Crane, gers per year. That is quite a sizeable traffic. who is the acting chief executive officer of The Port Hedland council want to develop the Pilbara Development Commission, said their own region and they see Port Hedland to me just last week, ‘I can’t understand how as a gateway to Australia from Bali and from the federal government can sanction not hav- nearby Indonesia. They are negotiating char- ing firefighters at Karratha Airport.’ Barry ter flights with Sempati Air and Merpati— Haase, the member for Kalgoorlie, spent Indonesian airlines—to bring passengers into $416,000 on postage prior to the last elec- Port Hedland. The fact that, from 30 June, tion. If that money had been spent on provid- because of cynical cost-cutting by this gov- ing airport fire services, those two airports ernment, there will not be a full-time, fully would have a fire service now able to meet trained emergency firefighting service on the the needs of the local community and give ground at the airport—rather than 45 minutes the reassurance necessary for passengers. away in Port Hedland—means that the cost (Time expired) of providing that service for international International Justice for Cleaners Day passengers as well as domestic passengers Senator WONG (South Australia) (7.13 has to be met. For international passengers p.m.)—I rise this evening to congratulate there has to be a fire service at the airport, members of the Australian Liquor, Hospital- which means making a special arrangement ity and Miscellaneous Workers Union and its just for international flights. sister union in the United States, the Service Regional Australia deserves a break, and Employees International Union, on their regional Australia ought to be given a break campaign demanding decent wages and con- by this government. This government talks ditions for cleaners employed in the more tough about what it is going to do to help than 120 Westfield shopping centres around regional Australia, but when you actually the world. look at its performance there is very little Yesterday, on 16 June, cleaners around the there. By removing the fire service, it is in- world celebrated International Justice for hibiting the ability of the town of Port Hed-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11711

Cleaners Day, or Justice for Janitors Day, as per cent of workers in this industry enjoy it is known in the US. This day commemo- full-time employment, with the other 78 per rates the struggle of cleaners in Los Angeles cent employed on part-time or casual bases. who were attacked by police in 1990 during Even taking into account the most recent a peaceful demonstration against a cleaning living wage increase, which we note the contractor. Community outrage after this government opposed, cleaners earn the incident led to the formation of union locals princely sum of $12.38 an hour. Many of that, over the many years of the Justice for them do not work many hours a week. Make Janitors campaign, have been highly success- no mistake, on these wages and with the ful in achieving improvements in wages, hours worked, many cleaners in Australia are conditions, health care and job security. The working and living in poverty. Those sena- leadership and rank and file of the SEIU are tors involved in the Senate poverty inquiry to be commended for their tenacious efforts would have heard horrific stories of the day- in achieving these improvements. to-day struggle to live in dignity that workers The Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellane- like these have to endure. This is also the ous Workers Union is marking International section of the community that the Howard Justice for Cleaners Day by launching a government has in its crosshairs in its plan to campaign calling on Westfield chairman destroy Medicare and make higher education Frank Lowy to agree to minimum standards the preserve of the wealthy. in the awarding of cleaning contracts, which Prior to entering the parliament I had the include abiding by award conditions, ensur- privilege of representing some of these ing basic occupational health and safety workers in legal disputes, often surrounding standards are met and guaranteeing that unfair dismissal or a failure to pay correct companies who are awarded cleaning con- entitlements. From this experience I have tracts are meeting their commitments, such seen companies like Westfield adopting an as workers compensation premiums, super- aggressive policy of increasing profits by annuation payments and appropriate taxes. I awarding contracts solely on price, creating a hope this campaign is successful, and I find downward spiral where cleaning contractors it hard to imagine that, when it is put to him, inevitably make their own profits off the Frank Lowy, the CEO of Westfield, will dis- backs of low-paid workers. agree with it. Like many of the workers who clean his Cleaners in our shopping centres are an shopping towns, Mr Lowy came to Australia invisible force. Multinational giants like as a migrant with little other than a determi- Westfield rely on these workers being effi- nation to work for a better future for himself cient and reliable and maintaining an envi- and his family. That spirit, displayed by ronment that allows the company to charge many migrants into Australia, has helped topnotch rents. In return, shopping centre build the country we know and love, yet in- cleaners are amongst the most exploited creasingly that spirit is not being rewarded workers in the Australian community. Ac- with the opportunities it deserves. Cleaners cording to the ABS, over 95,000 workers are are often caught in poverty cycles, not being employed in the cleaning industry in Austra- able to afford basic health and education. No lia, including over 8,600 in my home state of doubt, Westfield will argue that the wages South Australia. This industry is dominated and conditions of cleaners have nothing to do by women and includes many workers from with the owners of the shopping mall be- non-English-speaking backgrounds. Only 22 cause it is the contractors who are the em-

CHAMBER 11712 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 ployers, but it is Westfield who selects the tocol on service sector tendering. The fact contractor and in these shopping centres the that a service is contracted out is not an ex- contractor acts in the name of Westfield. It is cuse for minimum wages and conditions to Westfield who selects the contractors on the be avoided. basis of price, pushing wages and conditions Environment: Greening Australia downwards. Westfield has a responsibility to Senator HUMPHRIES (Australian Capi- ensure workers are treated decently and that tal Territory) (7.19 p.m.)—I begin my re- contractors are meeting their minimum legal marks by making a short reference to the obligations. comments of Senator Cook, who is no longer It seems inconceivable that Mr Lowy, in the chamber. In his speech he made refer- when presented with these facts through this ence to a Canberra bureaucrat having been campaign, would do anything other than responsible for some decision of which he immediately take steps to rectify the prob- disapproved. First of all, I do not know lems occurring on his property. It would whether the bureaucrat of whom he com- seem inconceivable that Mr Lowy, whose plains was a Canberra bureaucrat or perhaps story epitomises the migrant’s dream and a Perth bureaucrat, but I would hope that a who is now amongst the richest people in former minister of the Crown in this country Australia, would want to treat others worse would acknowledge that he has had many than he was treated. Mr Lowy is one of the Canberra bureaucrats provide him with dedi- success stories of our post-war immigration cated and loyal service and would be a little policy, arriving from Europe in 1952 with no less likely as a result to refer in that disparag- capital and poor English skills—an identical ing way to bureaucrats who happen to live in situation to that of many of Australia’s clean- Canberra. I hope that he is listening to these ers. However, in those days Australia en- remarks and is taking note. joyed a centralised wage system that acted as My comments this evening are not, how- a genuine safety net, a springboard where ever, about Senator Cook but about the work new migrants like Mr Lowy were able to of Greening Australia. In 1982, the Interna- earn a decent wage and participate not only tional Year of the Tree, a small community in the economy but also in the society more based group called Greening Australia was broadly. formed to raise concerns about tree loss and In 1950 the pay differential between aver- to organise the mass planting of trees. I am age wages and the salaries of CEOs was not sure whether Bob Hawke’s prediction of about one to five. Over the past six years the planting one billion trees before 2000 came Howard government has torn the industrial to fruition, but if it did Greening Australia safety net to shreds. Rising wealth inequality can take a large part of the credit. and ballooning executive salaries have seen Just last month I attended the 21st anni- this differential grow to a point where CEOs versary celebrations of that organisation, and earn on average 400 times more than a I think it is fair to say that Greening Australia cleaner in a Westfield shopping centre. This has been one of Australia’s great environ- divide has been further compounded by an mental successes. Today it is an organisation attack on essential public services, health and with some 300 staff and a national role fo- education. I congratulate LHMU members cusing on issues such as water quality and on their efforts in this campaign. I join with salinity, biodiversity and community capac- them in calling for Westfield to sit down with ity building. It has formed constructive part- the relevant unions to negotiate a global pro-

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11713 nerships with government, fellow environ- ernment. In the 2001 budget the government mental groups and industry. announced an extra $1 billion for the trust, I have to say that I see some environ- which extends funding through till 2006. mental organisations in the community Another Greening Australia initiative that which appear to be more interested in envi- has been funded by the Natural Heritage ronmental politics than the environment. Trust has been the Bidgee Banks project, Those organisations attract little respect from which has tackled erosion in key areas in the people like me. I have great respect for mid and upper Murrumbidgee catchments. Greening Australia because it gets on with This project has particular significance for the job of protecting and enhancing the Aus- the people of the ACT. Like countless other tralian environment. Greening Australia projects, this project was successful because it encouraged participa- Greening Australia is an organisation that tion from all stakeholders, not just Landcare is particularly well respected in the bush groups. It won a Banksia award last year, capital, and it has been an important part of which is a significant achievement in envi- the ACT’s environmental recovery following ronmental circles. the 18 January firestorms. Greening Austra- lia is rare among environmental organisa- I would like to take this opportunity to actions. It enjoys universal support, is non- knowledge some recent Natural Heritage political and, most importantly, achieves tan- Trust backed projects in the ACT region, gible benefits for the environment. In 2001- some of which Greening Australia has been 02 Greening Australia planted over two mil- involved with. The Gudgenby Bush Regen- lion seedlings, collected 2,400 kilos of native eration project continues the re- seed, conserved almost 180,000 hectares of establishment of native vegetation close to native vegetation, erected over 3,500 kilome- the Namadgi National Park. The Creel and tres of fencing to conserve native vegetation Recall Survey for Lake Ginninderra under- and trained and educated 19,418 people—an took an independent survey of recreational impressive achievement. fishing in Lake Ginninderra. The Waterwatch Resource Centre in the Tuggeranong Valley Of course, statistics have a limited impact is a project where staff and students from on the public imagination. It is only when Lake Tuggeranong College monitored water you see the results of Greening Australia’s quality and initiated awareness raising pro- work that you begin to understand the mag- jects due to rapid expansion of Tuggeranong nitude of its contribution. For example, and its accompanying young school-aged Greening Australia has been part of the Salt- population. The Vegetation Investment Pro- shaker project in the Boorowa catchment, ject will enlarge key vegetation patches and north-west of Canberra. It has tackled salin- establish 240 hectares of links between rem- ity in more than 200 sites in the catchment. nant vegetation in the southern ACT region. One farmer commented on this by saying, The Waterwatch program in the Ginninderra ‘Saltshaker has been fantastic. In this pad- catchment aims to improve water quality in dock I had three trees. Now I have got the catchment. The upstream urban stormwa- 3,500.’ ter in Ginninderra Creek flows into the Mur- This project was funded through the How- rumbidgee River and the severely degraded ard government’s $2.7 billion Natural Heri- Murray-Darling system, which gives the pro- tage Trust, the largest environmental rescue ject extra significance. Ten schools and five effort ever delivered by an Australian gov-

CHAMBER 11714 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Landcare groups have been involved in this practical expression of their commitment to project. the environment over many years. In 2002, a three-year, $69 million contract Depleted Uranium was awarded jointly to Greening Australia Senator ALLISON (Victoria) (7.27 and Job Futures to run the Green Corps pro- p.m.)—On 6 August this year it will be Hi- gram. It shows that Greening Australia is not roshima Day, 58 years after the first drop- only a body with environmental expertise but ping of an atomic bomb in 1945. To mark also one which has some financial nous. that anniversary, the Democrats are calling About 85 per cent of Green Corps projects on the government to use its influence on the are located in rural and regional Australia. world stage to do two things: firstly, to push This is justified not only because of the envi- for a global ban on weapons containing de- ronmental problems facing non-urban Aus- pleted uranium; and, secondly, to urge the tralia but also because of the comparative United States to not go on with its nuclear lack of work experience opportunities for Star Wars program. I will come to that issue young people in these areas. Nevertheless, later this week but first I want to talk about the ACT will soon benefit from a Green depleted uranium—DU. Corps project that will assist in recovery Thirteen years after Australia stopped us- from the bushfires in the upper Murrum- ing depleted uranium in ammunitions, Aus- bidgee catchment. In conjunction with the tralian troops sent to Iraq—as well as Iraq’s ACT Rural Lessees Association, this project civilian population—were exposed to DU will assist farmers with refencing, vegetation used there by allied forces. We think it is surveys to determine more fire resistant spe- time that our defence forces put DU weapons cies, seed collection, combating erosion, and in the same category as cluster bombs. We do carrying out water quality testing. The young not use them and we do not support their use ACT residents who participate in this project by the United States, the United Kingdom or will also learn occupational health and safety anyone else, for that matter, and for very procedures and basic first aid and will gain good reasons. Australia has a worthy history career guidance. of opposing the use of landmines—indeed, This speech has predominantly sung the our technical forces have been very active in praises of Greening Australia. I hope it has de-mining many countries around the world. also given the Senate further evidence of the That has not been enough, of course, as there national importance and professionalism of are still more landmines being planted than this organisation. Apart from immediate we can de-mine, but their efforts have, no challenges, such as its involvement in the doubt, saved lives on many occasions. Green Corps and the Natural Heritage Trust, We could add to that history by urging that Greening Australia sees its greatest medium- depleted uranium weapons are explicitly in- term challenge as developing more effective cluded in non-proliferation treaties. The Aus- partnerships between governments, business tralian government used depleted uranium in and the community. I wish them well in this. weapons from 1981, and the Democrats first It is this type of partnership that can provide questioned the government about this in par- Australia with a secure economic and envi- liament more than 20 years ago. Thankfully, ronmental future. I want to thank the many Australia stopped using DU ammunition in staff and volunteers of Greening Australia 1990, acknowledging that this was for health who, through their actions, have made a and safety reasons. We know it is highly

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11715 likely that DU is at least a contributing factor cials, General Cosgrove and Defence Minis- in Gulf War syndrome. The use of DU muni- ter Hill about a number of issues, including tions raises major concerns not just about the exposure to DU. General Cosgrove provided effects on all combatants but also about the the sorts of answers that we are accustomed long-term health of civilian populations to from government ministers—in other which live in the affected areas well after the words: ‘Trust us. We trust the United States conflict is over. government.’ He said: DU is used in weapons because it is I am quite confident that the way we employed heavy, it is hard and it is very cheap. What is our people would not have led them into exposure more, it is an intractable waste product, of any significance to DU effects. which makes getting rid of it in other coun- We were told in estimates that Australia was tries a highly attractive proposition for those waiting on US data about where environ- who have it. But there are alternatives to DU, mental threats such as DU existed, and De- such as tungsten, which is more effective and fence will assess that data against Australian safer but, of course, much more expensive. troop deployments. If they may have been DU is pyrophoric—in other words, it ignites exposed, there will be urinary DU screening. and burns upon hitting a hard target. When The people of Iraq of course do not have DU weapons hit a target, a fine aerosol of access to these maps showing where there uranium oxides is emitted. Most are small was risk of DU exposure, and few of them enough to be readily inhaled by humans, and will be able to access urinary DU screening. the very smallest can lodge deep in the lungs. A Defence officer told us that Australia Once released, these fine particles can be had piggybacked on the US led coalition’s spread by the wind or by vehicle and person- ‘robust’ efforts to put environmental people nel movements. on the ground to conduct routine soil, water Two months ago I wrote to the Minister and air sampling. They are linking that with for Defence asking for Australian troops to geospatial data so they are able to identify be blood tested for chromosomal aberration what environmental threats were at play in as a result of DU exposure. The United that location, even down to things like over- Kingdom has announced that British troops laying satellite imagery to show the presence are to be offered DU testing. This comes af- or absence of oil fire smoke plumes. We will ter the UK’s Royal Society were asked to have access to that data for our deployed look at the impact of depleted uranium—a personnel, where the Americans did the source of radiation—on health. The Royal monitoring. Apparently, we are in the proc- Society basically said that more research was ess of acquiring that data from the United required. They said that we need to be cogni- States. It will certainly make for a very inter- sant of depleted uranium and we need to esting map of the environmental hazards in administer the survey tool to our people to Iraq not just for our troops but for the Iraqi identify those who might have been exposed. population. So the UK government has gone ahead with Dr Doug Rokke, an expert on the use of this, and I think it is reasonable for us to ask depleted uranium in US armaments, is pres- the Australian government to do likewise. ently touring Australia. Dr Rokke was also a At the budget estimates hearings for the major in the United States armed services, Department of Defence of 4 June this year, was a military physicist in charge of the Senator Bartlett questioned officers and offi- clean-up in Kuwait, has since become an

CHAMBER 11716 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 outspoken opponent of the use of DU weap- point in our history of the period during ons and is a strong advocate of clean-ups in which he was such a remarkable contributor. the name of human and health rights. He While I started my parliamentary career just knows only too well that these weapons can as Bill was finishing his, we nevertheless do great harm. He and his team of 100 men became good friends through regular corre- brought out some of the tanks and other ve- spondence and meetings on a range of eco- hicles that had been hit by DU weapons in nomic issues we had in common, such as the the first Gulf War. Thirty of his team have need for budget surpluses, the concerns of since died, and Dr Rokke himself is ill. current account deficits, the plight of manu- In the first Gulf War, soldiers were told facturing in Australia and tariffs, to name but there were no adverse health effects from a few. I believe we both enjoyed the oppor- DU. Subsequently Dr Rokke did studies of tunity to debate these issues, even if some- Gulf War veterans, who now in their many times it was only with each other. My prob- thousands have cancer related illnesses. He lem was always how to singly deliver what has also done work on the effects of the first Bill wanted, a frustration for Bill and an em- Gulf War on the health of people from south- barrassment for me. ern Iraq and Kuwait, and more recently he Bill’s brilliance could be seen in his has done similar work in Afghanistan. There views, which were certainly well ahead of was a lot more depleted uranium used in the his time and the conventional thinking of the recent Gulf War, much of it in civilian areas. period. Born in Sydney to a historical family Dr Rokke’s tour has been organised by that included colonial explorers and newspa- Australian peace groups. If members of the per proprietors, he was educated at the Ar- public would like to hear him speak, he will midale School and later obtained his Master be addressing a public meeting at the Mel- of Arts at New College in Oxford. Upon re- bourne Town Hall on the evening of Tues- turning home, he was an economic adviser to day, 24 June; at the University of Tasmania the New South Wales Treasury from 1933 to on the evening of Friday, 27 June; at Sydney 1936. University on Tuesday, 1 July; at Fremantle In fact a lot of people remember Bill from Town Hall on the afternoon of Saturday, 5 his exploits with the Army Reserve— July; and in Adelaide on Thursday, 10 July. exploits that at the time were unconventional He will be speaking tomorrow night at the but certainly very effective. How he man- Brisbane Town Hall. I will be meeting Dr aged to avoid being court-marshalled is tes- Rokke in Melbourne and I would encourage timony to the message of his campaigns government MPs and others in this chamber about the hopeless state of the adequacy of to do likewise. I am sure what he has to say Australia’s defences at the time, particularly will be of great interest to people in this around the large cities. In 1941 he enlisted place. with the Army Reserve and rose to the rank Wentworth, Hon. William Charles, AO of captain, 1st Division Headquarters. It was here that he displayed the rebellious streak Senator WATSON (Tasmania) (7.35 that I am referring to. On one occasion he led p.m.)—I was saddened to learn of the pass- a party that captured the Waterfall police ing of a wonderful person, the Hon. William station to demonstrate the inadequacies of Charles Wentworth. So much of Bill’s life home defence. There is mythology surround- was devoted to the service of the people of ing some of the other exploits. Australia that his passing marks a notable

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11717

Bill was elected on 12 occasions to the publication in many newspapers no doubt federal parliament. As one of the forty- got the point across, such was the unconven- niners, in 1949 he was elected to represent tional nature of the Wentworth family. the people of Mackellar and held the seat for Regardless of the topic of discussion, Bill 28 years. He has been described variously as was passionate, independent and vigorous in an occupational rebel, even within his own debate. Many members of parliament have party. Perhaps this rebellious streak was recalled Bill as a very colourful person dur- something that endeared him to so many ing their tributes this week. Mrs Bronwyn Australians. As a critic of the Menzies gov- Bishop recalled Bill’s passion for economics ernment, he was not appointed to a ministry and mathematics, with him mentioning to her until the election of John Gorton as Prime once that he was engaged in correspondence Minister in 1968. Bill served as the first per- with a particular professor concerning the son to be specifically responsible for Abo- method of calculating infinity. Perhaps that is riginal affairs, and this is certainly a historic an indication of his life at Oxford, looking at achievement. He deserves special credit for philosophical issues. his important achievements during his ten- According to the Deputy Prime Minister, ure—very brief; only three years as minister. John Anderson, in the other place yesterday, In promoting the recognition of Aboriginal Ian Sinclair was in cabinet when Bill was a people, he persuaded Menzies to agree to the minister from 1968 to 1972 and Ian remem- important referendum that included Aborigi- bers: nes in the census, which was finally held under Prime Minister Holt in 1967. ... Bill Wentworth had a thousand solutions to every problem—forty or fifty of which would be Bill was absolutely passionate about equal quite brilliant. rights for Indigenous Australians—a view Ian also recalls that ‘Bill Wentworth insisted not strongly held at the time. He strongly on personally writing his own cabinet sub- supported moves towards granting land missions’, which were ‘discursive, wide- rights and steering policy from outright as- ranging and idiosyncratic—something of a similation in favour of integration. On this reflection of their author’. Many people say note, an example of the unwillingness of the that Bill inherited many of his qualities— people of his era to treat him seriously was including a strong will, passion and inde- when Bill was completely left out when the pendence—from his great-grandfather, Wil- Labor government celebrated the referen- liam Wentworth, who was amongst the first dum’s 25th anniversary in 1992. colonial explorers to cross the Blue Moun- Another story—as his nephew Mungo tains. McCallum, a journalist in this place, re- In hindsight, perhaps Bill’s major error calls—occurred when the ceremony to cele- was in breaking away from the Liberal Party brate the standardisation of railway was held. for a time. No doubt it was a reflection of the Bill was not invited to attend, despite his fact that many Liberal Party leaders in his strong advocacy for decades about the need era really had difficulty in coping with his for standardisation of the Melbourne-Sydney exceptional brilliance. They found it hard to gauge. As the determined driving force be- accommodate so many of his views or even hind this issue he was obviously very hurt, to harness some of his extraordinary ener- but his wife came to the rescue. She ap- gies—with the exception perhaps of the late peared on the platform bearing a placard John Gorton when he was Prime Minister. which demanded, ‘Where’s Wentworth?’ Its

CHAMBER 11718 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Bill’s propensity to debate issues was a high- Interactive Gambling Act 2001—Report light of his career. He rarely stepped back for 2002 on the operation of the prohibition from issues he thought needed airing and his on interactive gambling advertisements. contribution to the nation, especially through National Health Act 1953—Private health his Aboriginal affairs work, was remarkable insurance premium increases—Report for for its vision. He carried on with this work the quarter ending 31 March 2003. with Aborigines well after he left parliament Pharmaceutical Benefits Pricing and into his later life. Authority—Supplementary report for 2001-02 on the operations of the Authority The late William Charles Wentworth was in relation to the Pharmaceutical Industry a fantastic Australian, a great parliamentarian Investment Program. and a brilliant man. I consider it my great Sydney Airport Demand Management Act fortune to have counted him as a friend. It is 1997—Quarterly reports on the maximum with great sympathy that I offer my condo- movement limit for Sydney Airport— lences to his wife, Barbara, who was a great 1 October to 31 December 2001. help to him, and to his children, grandchil- 1 January to 31 March 2002. dren and great-grandchildren in their loss. Bill, we salute you. 1 April to 30 June 2002. Senate adjourned at 7.43 p.m. 1 July to 30 September 2002. 1 October to 31 December 2002. DOCUMENTS 1 January to 31 March 2003. Tabling Telecommunications (Interception) Act The following government documents 1979—Report for 2001-02 pursuant to were tabled: Division 2 of Part IX of the Act. Australasian Police Ministers’ Council— Treaties— Administration and activities of the Bilateral— National Common Police Services— Report for 2001-02. Text, together with national interest analysis and annexures— Australian Land Transport Development Programme—Progress report for 2001-02. Agreement on Medical Treatment for Temporary Visitors between the Australian Law Reform Commission and Government of Australia and the National Health and Medical Research Government of the Kingdom of Council Australian Health Ethics Norway, done at Canberra on 28 Committee—Report—ALRC No. 96— March 2003. Essentially yours: The protection of human genetic information in Australia, March Exchange of Notes, done at Canberra 2003—Volumes 1 and 2. on 7 April–27 May 2003, Amending the Agreement between the Australian Maritime College—Report for Government of the Commonwealth 2002. of Australia and the Government of Australian National Maritime Museum— the United States of America for the Strategic plan 2003-2006. Financing of Certain Educational and Australian Research Council—Strategic Cultural Exchange Programmes of action plan 2003-05. 28 August 1964. Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Text, together with national interest Forestry—Report for 2001-02— analysis, regulation impact statement Corrigendum. and annexures—Agreement between Australia and the Republic of Croatia on

CHAMBER Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11719

Social Security, done at Zagreb on Tabling 13 May 2003 The following documents were tabled by Multilateral—Text, together with national the Clerk: interest analysis and annexures— Migration Act—Certificate under section Convention on the Conservation and 502, dated 27 May 2003. Management of Highly Migratory Fish Stocks in the Western and Central Native Title Act—Withdrawal of Pacific Ocean, done at Honolulu on 5 Recognition of Representative September 2000. Aboriginal/Torres Strait Islander Body 2003 (No. 1). Protocol on Preparedness, Response and Co-operation to Pollution Incidents by Quarantine Act—Quarantine Amendment Hazardous and Noxious Substances Proclamation 2003 (No. 2). 2000, done at London, 15 March 2000. Therapeutic Goods Act—Regulations— Statutory Rules 2003 No. 111.

CHAMBER 11720 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE The following answers to questions were circulated: Agriculture: United States Farm Bill (Question No. 916) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 13 November 2002: With reference to page 95 of the Department Annual Report for 2001-2002: (1) What contribution did the department make to the development and implementation of the joint government/industry strategy to influence the development of the United States Farm Bill. (2) What are the details of the strategy (3) What assessment has been made of the success of the strategy. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The Commonwealth Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry (AFFA) made a major contribution to developing and implementing a strategy to attempt to influence the US Farm Bill. This was done in close cooperation with the Commonwealth Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (DFAT), the Australian Embassy in Washington, and a wide cross section of Australian agricultural industry. Core elements of the strategy were developed through the Agricultural Trade Consultative Group (ATCG), which is co-chaired by the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, The Hon Warren Truss MP and the Minister for Trade, The Hon Mark Vaile MP, and through its Steer- ing Group, which met frequently and is chaired at Deputy Secretary level. (2) Details of the strategy included Research and Analysis • Closely monitoring the debate and policy process in the United States (US) in conjunction with DFAT and the Australian Embassy in Washington; • Developing common messages associated with the Farm Bill which were used to put Austra- lia’s case in Washington by both Government and industry. This included Australian Bureau of Agricultural and Resource Economics (ABARE) research and publications which showed, amongst other things, the deleterious implications of the proposed Farm Bill on the domestic US economy and on international agricultural markets, and World Trade Organisation (WTO) negotiating environment; and • Identifying key players in Congress and the Administration with potential to influence the US legislative processes as the focus of our lobbying efforts; Communication of Messages • Meeting regularly with key industry representatives to assess the situation and respond to developments in Washington; • Delivering Australia’s messages in a coordinated and timely manner in conjunction with industry; • Reinforcing to the Administration and key Congressional figures the links between a protec- tionist Farm Bill and US leadership credibility in the WTO Doha round of agriculture negotiations; and • Producing, in consultation with DFAT, “Farm Bill Newsletters” to ensure that the key stakeholders were kept informed of the latest US Farm Bill developments.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11721

Mechanisms • Regular consultations in Washington with local agents of Australian agricultural industry; • Encouraging other Cairns Group countries to make similar representations about the Farm Bill; and • Assistance to Ministers, including letter to counterparts and planning and implementation of a government/industry delegation led by the Hon Warren Truss MP to Washington to lobby Congress and the Administration. (3) Two important objectives were achieved in that the duration of the Bill was limited to 6 rather than 10 years and built-in constraints were included in the Bill to ensure that certain program spending does not breach US WTO commitments. Feedback has been received that the strategy successfully placed Australia’s concerns about the Farm Bill in the minds of US policy-makers. During Minister Truss’ visit to the US in December 2001 to lobby US Administration, key Austra- lian industry representatives provided positive comments supporting his efforts. Industry’s support for the initiative was also reflected in a letter to the Office of the Prime Minister dated 24 Septem- ber 2001 in which the National Farmers’ Federation indicated it fully supported high level government representation in Washington to lobby key members of the US House of Representatives. Transport and Regional Services: Farm Management Deposit Scheme (Question No. 955) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Transport and Regional Services, upon notice, on 21 November 2002: (1) On what date did the department first become aware that some Farm Management Deposit (FMD) products may not comply with legislation applicable to the Governments FMD scheme. (2) (a) What was the source of this information; and (b) in what form was this information conveyed, for example, correspondence, e-mail, telephone conversation or direct conversation. (3) What was the nature of the problem specifically identified in this information. (4) On what date did the department inform the Minister, or his office, of this problem. (5) Did the Minister, or his office, receive advice about this problem from a source other than the Min- ister’s department; if so: (a) on what date was this information first received; (b) what was the source of this information; (c) in what form was this information conveyed; and (d) what was the nature of the problem specifically identified in this information. (6) (a) On what date, or dates, did the department take action in response to this identified problem; and (b) what action did the department take. (7) (a) What departments, agencies, banks or non-bank financial institutions did the department com- municate with in relation to this matter; (b) on what date, or dates, did that communication occur; and (c) what form did that communication take. (8) (a) What responses, if any, has the department received in respect to those communications; (b) in what form have those responses been received; and (c) what was the content of those responses. (9) What action has the department taken in response to communications from departments, agencies, banks or non-bank financial institutions. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Acting Minister for Transport and Regional Services has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The issue lies outside the Department of Transport and Regional Services area of responsibility. Department has no formal advice or knowledge regarding the assertions. (2) to (4) Not applicable - see (1).

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11722 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(5) My office has no record of the matter being raised with my staff or me. (6) to (9) Not applicable - see (1). Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry: Australian National Residue Survey (Question No. 994) Senator Brown asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 5 December 2002: For each of the 110 cases referred to on page 1 of the report for 2001-02 on the results of the Australian National Residue Survey Results, where residues were above Australian Standards, can details be provided of: (a) the level of residue; (b) the State and place where the measurement occurred; and (c) the penalty which resulted Senator Troeth—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: There were 61 residue contraventions reported by the National Residue Survey (NRS) on page one, in the NRS Results Report 2001-2002. Of the 61 residues in excess of Australian Standards, 47 residues were of agricultural and veterinary (agvet) chemicals and 14 were of metals. A contravention (i.e. a level above the Australian Standard) is recorded in the following instances: 1. The residue recorded is above the Australian Standard that is set. 2. There is a residue recorded but there is no Australian standard for an agvet chemical, as it is not set. In this case residues have been detected for inedible materials such as urine, faeces. This testing is based on some residues not being readily detected in edible tissues but can be detected in inedible tissues. 3. There is no Australian Standard set, and a residue level is detected in an edible tissue. Details of (a) the level of the residue recorded and (b) the State where the measurement occurred and (c) the penalty, which resulted, are tabulated in the attached table. State/Territory agricultural departments conduct the traceback investigations of residues above the Aus- tralian Standard and are responsible for any corrective actions including imposition of penalties (if applicable). The National Residue Survey receives notification from the States/Territories on the outcomes of these investigations. Contraventions of Australian Standards Report on the Australian National Residue Survey Results 2001-2002 Commodity (a) (b) (c) Residue State Explanation/Penalty level beef 0.002 QLD α-zearalanol (zeranol). Investigation by State department indicated residues occur from natural ingestion of Fusarium (fungus) infected pasture. Non-treatable, non- threatening occurrence. No penalty. beef 0.001 NSW Boldenone. Investigation by State department indicated metabolite of normal sex hormones. Non-treatable, non- threatening occurrence. No penalty. beef 0.340 VIC Dihydrostreptomycin. Warning letter sent to the pro- ducer by State department.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11723

Commodity (a) (b) (c) Residue State Explanation/Penalty level beef 1.700 VIC Neomycin. Withholding-period was observed. Austra- lian Pesticides & Veterinary Medicines Authority is reviewing the Australian Standard. sheep 0.001 WA 19-nortestosterone (α and β). Investigations by State (6 residues) 0.002 NSW departments indicated metabolite of normal sex hor- 0.002 SA mones Non-treatable, non-threatening occurrence. No 0.002 NSW penalty. 0.003 NSW 0.005 NSW sheep 0.017 VIC Boldenone. Investigation by State department indicated metabolite of natural sex hormones. Non-treatable, non- threatening occurrence. No penalty. sheep 1.331 VIC Cadmium. A common environmental contaminant of (5 residues) 1.490 SA soils of southern Australia (SA, WA and VIC). Four 1.901 WA residue levels lower than agreed residue action level for 2.100 SA a traceback investigation. For the other residue trace- 3.047 VIC back undertaken by State department, but source of sample not identifiable by abattoir that collected the sample. No further action. sheep 0.611 SA Lead. Traceback by State departments could not identify (2 residues) 0.844 NSW point source. No further action. pig 0.390 NSW Sulphadimidine (methazine). Traceback by State de- (3 residues) 1.600 NSW partment determined accidental exposure of finisher 1.600 NSW pigs to medicated feed. Warning letter has been sent to the owner by State department and work practices implemented to prevent the incident from reoccurring. deer 0.005 WA 19-nortestosterone (α and β). Traceback by State department identified metabolite of normal sex hormones. Non-treatable, non-threatening occurrence. No penalty. ostrich 1.907 SA Lead. Traceback by State department could not identify point source. Additional bulked liver samples to be taken from birds at the next slaughter. horse 0.014 NT 19-nortestosterone (α and β). Investigation by Territory department indicated metabolite of normal sex hormones. Non-treatable, non-threatening occurrence. No penalty. goat 0.007 NSW Moxidectin. State department investigation identified (2 residues) 0.008 NSW off-label use of a product registered for sheep. Produc- ers realised ‘off-label’ use but unaware of implications. Producers made aware of implications. State did not advise specific penalty. Industry to lobby for registration of suitable worming treatment for goats. tuna aqua- 2.200 SA Lead. State department traceback investigation did not culture determine the source. No further action.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11724 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Commodity (a) (b) (c) Residue State Explanation/Penalty level shark wild- 1.100 NT Mercury. Investigations have not resulted in any penal- caught 1.300 QLD ties being applied by State/Territory departments. Resi- (5 residues) 1.400 NT due management strategies, of which this is part, pre- 1.400 NT vent catch being taken from areas known to have high 1.500 NT levels of environmental contaminants or limit fish size caught. wheat 0.550 WA Chlorpyrifos. One traceback by State department indi- (2 residues) 2.000 SA cated an off-label use of the chemical to treat the base of a storage silo. Warning letter and advice sent to grower by State department. The other traceback was inconclu- sive. No further action taken. wheat 5.200 QLD Dichlorvos.1 Traceback by State departments indicated (2 residues) 8.200 NSW that incomplete label directions and subsequent failure to observe withholding period contributed to the contraventions. States have not reported a penalty. barley 5.600 QLD Dichlorvos.1 Traceback by State department indicated (3 residues) 6.700 QLD that label directions were not followed correctly. Each 8.000 QLD grower received an advisory letter from State department. oat 11.400 VIC Dichlorvos.1 Traceback by State department identified (4 residues) 11.600 VIC three residues as a result of communication and record 14.900 VIC keeping problems. Grain stores involved are implement- 17.500 VIC ing training, recording and stock management practices. The other residue detection received from the State department a warning letter, and a copy of State record keeping requirements. sorghum 11.200 VIC Chlorpyrifos-methyl. Traceback by State department indicated mechanical breakdown when auguring the grain into a storage silo resulted in over-treatment of the grain. Management advice sent to the grower. sorghum 6.400 NSW Dichlorvos.1 Traceback by State department indicated incomplete label directions and subsequent failure to observe the withholding period caused residue detection above Australian Standards. State department has not advised any penalty. lupin 1.000 WA Malathion. Traceback by State department identified (3 residues) 2.000 WA that chemical could have been used as a hygiene treat- 2.000 WA ment around the base of the silos and cross contamination of the lupins may have occurred. As chemical treatment unconfirmed no further action required. field pea 0.320 VIC Fenitrothion. Traceback by State department could not conclusively identify the cause of the residue. No further action. chick pea 0.200 NSW Chlorpyrifos-methyl. Traceback by State department could not conclusively identify the cause of the residue. No further action.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11725

Commodity (a) (b) (c) Residue State Explanation/Penalty level canola 0.200 NSW Fenitrothion.Traceback by State department could not (3 residues) 0.270 NSW conclusively identify the cause of the residue in one 0.400 NSW case. In other two cases letter written by State department to all contributing growers to silo regarding the residues found. No further action. apple and 6.000 WA Diphenylamine. Traceback by State department indi- pear 6.200 NSW cated five residues above the Australian Standard be- (7 residues) 6.700 VIC cause the fruit packer followed directions based on a 7.100 VIC consultant’s advice rather than the label directions. 8.400 VIC Packer will use chemical at label rates in future. No 9.700 VIC penalty applied. 7.700 VIC One residue above the Australian Standard due to over application of chemical as equipment was not correctly calibrated. Grower received warning letter from State Department. One residue above the Australian Standard was due to the product label not specifying a lower rate for the particular variety of apple when held in an ultra-low oxygen storage. Grower will use a lower rate in future. No further action. pear 3.300 VIC Iprodione. Traceback by State department unable to identify cause, as label directions were followed carefully. No further action. 1 Australian Pesticides & Veterinary Medicines Authority is currently conducting a review of dichlorvos, in liaison with the NRS and other stakeholders. Trade: Beef Sales to Japan (Question No. 1005) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 19 December 2002: With reference to Australian beef exports to Japan: (1) (a) What discussions has the Minister undertaken with Japanese officials during 2002 in relation to Australian beef imports to Japan known as ‘Aussie Beef’; (b) who attended each meeting; (c) when did each meeting occur; (d) what was discussed at each meeting; and (e) what records were kept of each meeting. (2) (a) What discussions has the Minister had with Japanese officials specifically in relation to the import restrictions known as the ‘snap-back’; (b) who attended each meeting; (c) when did each meeting occur; (d) what was discussed at each meeting; and (e) what records were kept of each meeting. (3) Is the ‘snap-back’ calculated on total beef imports into Japan, or on a country-by-country basis. (4) Will the ‘snap-back’ be invoked on Australian beef imports to Japan during the 2002-03 and 2003- 04 financial years. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question:

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11726 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(1) (a) The Minister had the following meetings in 2002 with Japanese officials where Australian beef exports to Japan were discussed (i) (b) Mr Tsutomu Takebe, Japanese Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries; Mr Takehiko Endoh, Senior Vice Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries; Mr Yoshiharu Takenaka, Vice Minister for International Affairs, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries; Mr Hidenori Murakami, Director General, International Affairs Department, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries; and Mr Masayuki Araki, Director, International Policy Planning Division, General Food Pol- icy Bureau, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries. (i) (c) Tuesday 29 January 2002 (i) (d) Issues discussed at this meeting included the postponed Quint meeting, Bovine Spongi- form Encephalopathy (BSE) and its effect on Australian beef sales to Japan, fisheries, Japanese agricultural policy, rice and Australian exports to Japan. (i) (e) There is a cable reporting on this meeting. (ii) (b) Mr Chikara Sakaguchi, Minister for Health, Labour and Welfare; Dr Shinpei Ozaki, Director General, Department of Food Sanitation, Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare; and Dr Satoshi Takaya, Director, Inspection and Safety Division, Department of Food Sanita- tion, Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare. (ii) (c) Wednesday 30 January 2002 (ii) (d) Issues discussed at this meeting included BSE, and the safety of Australian beef. (ii) (e) There is a cable reporting on this meeting. (iii) (b) Mr Koyo Nishikawa, Deputy Chairman Liberal Democratic Party Diet Affairs Commit- tee, Member of the House of Representatives; and Mr Masahiro Imamura, Parliamentary Secretary for Foreign Affairs. (iii) (c) Wednesday 30 January 2002 (iii) (d) Issues discussed at this meeting included the Doha Round of Multilateral Trade Negotia- tions, Japan’s agricultural policy, BSE and Australian beef exports to Japan (iii) (e) There is no written record of this meeting as it was a luncheon meeting (iv) (b) Mr Takehiko Endoh, Senior Vice Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Mr Eiji Ishigaki, Secretary to the Senior Vice Minister for Agriculture, Forestry and Fish- eries Mr Masayuki Araki, Director, International Policy Planning Division, General Food Pol- icy Bureau, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Mr Hiroyuki Nishiura, Deputy Director, International Economic Affairs Division, General Policy Bureau, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Mr Akihiro Mae, Deputy Director, Far Seas Fisheries Division, Resources Management Department, Japanese Fisheries Agency Mr Yuichi Nakamura, Chief, International Policy Planning Division, General Food Policy Bureau, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries Mr Tetsuya Tamai, Counsellor Agriculture, Japanese Embassy (iv) (c) Saturday 28 April 2002

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11727

(iv) (d) Issues discussed at this meeting include the Japanese beef market following BSE, the safety of Australian beef, the proposed new Japanese Food Safety Agency, the Japanese Prime Minister’s forthcoming visit to Australia, and the World Trade Organisation (WTO) negotiations. (iv) (e) There is a record of this meeting. (2) (a) The Minister had the following meeting in 2002 with Japanese officials where the issue of ‘snap-back’ was discussed (b) Mr Tsutomu Takebe, Japanese Minister of Agriculture Fisheries and Forestry; Mr Yoshiharu Takenaka, Vice Minister for International Affairs, Ministry of Agriculture, For- estry and Fisheries; and Mr Hidenori Murakami, Director General, International Affairs Department, Ministry of Agri- culture, Forestry and Fisheries. (c) Thursday 25 July 2002 (d) Issues discussed at this meeting included the possible triggering of the WTO safeguards (‘snap-back’) provisions for Japanese beef imports, Japanese agricultural policies and the proposed new Japanese Food Safety Agency. (e) There is a cable reporting on this meeting. (3) The ‘snap-back’ is calculated on total beef imports into Japan. Separate and identical ‘snap-back’ mechanisms apply for chilled and frozen beef. (4) Minister Truss and the Trade Minister will be negotiating with the Japanese Government with a view to removing the ‘snap-back’ provision. Trade: Livestock Export Accreditation Program (Question No. 1175) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 24 February 2003: (1) Can a copy of the Livestock Export Accreditation Program Rules of Accreditation be provided; if not, why not. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) A copy of the Livestock Export Accreditation Program Handbook can be obtained from the Austra- lian Livestock Export Corporation Ltd. Trade: Live Export Mortality Incidents (Question No. 1177) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 24 February 2003: (1) Can a table be provided of all live export reportable mortality incidents since March 2000, including the following details: (a) export licence holder; (b) month; (c) year; (d) origin; (e) destination; (f) animal type; (g) number exported; (h) mortality number; and (i) mortality rate. (2) Can details be provided of the total number of live export shipments for each of the following financial years: (a) 1999-2000; (b) 2000-01; (c) 2001-02; and (d) 2002-03. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) Live Export Reportable Mortality Incidents March 2000 - December 2002

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11728 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Mar-00 Australian Rural Ex- Geraldton Cilacap 4 1,123 7 0.62 ports Pty Ltd Apr-00 Wellard Rural Exports Portland Adabiya 20 1,941 36 1.85 Pty Ltd Apr-00 Carabao Exports Pty Darwin Muara 6 243 5 2.06 Ltd May-00 Carabao Exports Pty Darwin Muara 6 662 5 0.76 Ltd May-00 Livestock Shipping Portland/ Aqaba 23 3,116 58 1.86 Services Fremantle May-00 Fares International Portland/ Aqaba 22 5,426 96 1.77 52,650 1,172 2.23 Trading Ltd Fremantle Jun-00 Wellard Rural Exports Fremantle Oman, Fu- 17 88 1 1.14 64,048 3,150 4.92 Pty Ltd jairah, Doha Jun-00 Al Mukairish Australia Adelaide Fujairah/ 26 72,548 1,717 2.37 Pty Ltd Kuwait Jun-00 Rural Export and Fremantle Muscat/ Bah- 14 100 8 8.00 Trading Pty Ltd rain/ Kuwait Jul-00 Fares Rural Co. Pty Ltd Fremantle/ Adabiya/ 23 50,610 2,518 4.98 Port Hedland Aqaba Jul-00 Wellard Rural Export Fremantle Muscat/ Fu- 18 63,838 1,708 2.68 32 1 3.13 Pty Ltd jairah/ Doha Jul-00 Livestock Shipping Fremantle Aqaba 18 4,312 77 1.79 Services

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11729

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Jul-00 Rural Export & Trad- Fremantle Muscat/ Jebel 20 107,743 4256 3.95 ing (WA) Pty Ltd Ali/ Kuwait/ Bahrain Aug-00 Elders International Broome Jakarta 4 1,107 6 0.54 Australia Limited Aug-00 Renny Gardiner (Ex- Broome Jakarta 4 950 6 0.63 ports) Pty Ltd Aug-00 SEAF Pty Ltd Broome Pasir Gudang 6 552 15 2.72 1,551 44 2.84 Sep-00 Fares International Wyndham/ Adabiya/ 25 50,475 1,248 2.47 Trading Ltd Fremantle Aqaba Sep-00 Rural Export & Trad- Portland Muscat/ Jebel 25 108,955 3095 2.84 ing (WA) Pty Ltd Ali/ Kuwait/ Bahrain Sep-00 Australian Rural Ex- Weipa Pasir Gudang 7 118 8 6.78 ports Pty Ltd Oct-00 Renny Gardiner Ex- Broome Jakarta 6 891 8 0.90 ports Pty Ltd Oct-00 SEAF Pty Ltd Broome Pasir Gudang 6 1,220 103 8.44

Oct-00 Rural Export and Portland Muscat/ Jebel 22 109,959 2377 2.16 Trading Pty Ltd Ali/ Bahrain/ Kuwait Oct-00 Haddleton Holding Darwin Port Klang 6 1,097 7 0.64

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11730 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Oct-00 Fares International Fremantle/ Manzanillo/ 30 4,026 41 1.02 Trading Ltd Port Hedland Guaymas Nov-00 Austrex Export Pty Ltd Weipa Pasir Gudang 8 1,156 9 0.78

Nov-00 Rural Export & Trad- Fremantle Muscat/ Jebel 14 501 27 5.39 ing Pty Ltd Ali/ Kuwait Dec-00 Carabao Exports Darwin Muara 6 902 9 1.00 50 1 2.00

Dec-00 Rural Export & Trad- Fremantle Muscat/ Bah- 21 500 40 8.00 ing Pty Ltd rain/ Kuwait/ Jebel Ali Dec-00 Wellard Rural Export Fremantle Muscat/ Fu- 19 80 1 1.25 Pty Ltd jairah/ Doha Dec-00 International Livestock Darwin Panjang/ Port 11 1,399 16 1.14 Export (WA) Pty Ltd Klang Dec-00 South East Asian Geraldton Jakarta 7 932 6 0.64 Livestock Service Jan-01 Rural Export and Portland Muscat/ Ku- 20 76,887 1,864 2.42 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd wait/ Jebel Ali Jan-01 Seaf Pty Ltd Geraldton Pasir Gudang 13 1,409 31 2.20

Jan-01 Renny Gardiner (Ex- Fremantle Jakarta 7 810 27 3.33 ports) Pty Ltd

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11731

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Feb-01 Fares International Portland/ Aqaba 20 1,606 16 1.00 Trading Ltd Fremantle Feb-01 Rural Export and Fremantle Muscat/ Ku- 14 100 1 1.00 964 75 7.78 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd wait/ Jebel Ali Feb-01 Al Mukairish Australia Adelaide/ Jeddah 23 6,224 210 3.37 Pty Ltd Fremantle Feb-01 Cenpac Livestock Fremantle Jakarta 6 984 5 0.51 Trading Co Pty Ltd Feb-01 Mike Moses Sydney Noumea 4 8 2 25.00

Feb-01 South East Asian Darwin Jakarta 5 1,244 7 0.56 Livestock Services Feb-01 Wellard Rural Export Fremantle Jeddah 14 3,426 94 2.74 Pty Ltd Feb-01 Carabao Export Pty Ltd Darwin Muara 6 780 7 0.90

Mar-01 Carabao Export Pty Ltd Darwin Brunei 7 915 5 0.55 Apr-01 Australian Rural Ex- Portland Jebel Ali/ 20 1,406 70 4.98 port Pty Ltd Kuwait Apr-01 Rural Export and Portland/ Muscat/ Ku- 22 305 4 1.31 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Fremantle wait/ Jebel Ali May-01 James Commodity Fremantle Port Louis 13 303 15 4.95 Exports Pty Ltd

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11732 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) May-01 Seaf Pty Ltd Broome Pasir Gudang 6 107 5 4.67 1,141 79 6.92 May-01 Rural Export and Portland/ Bahrain/ 20 183 3 1.64 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Fremantle Kuwait/ Jebel Ali Jun-01 Rural Export and Portland Muscat/ Bah- 23 100 1 1.00 76,776 3,139 4.09 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd rain/ Kuwait/ Jebel Ali Jun-01 Wellard Rural Export Fremantle Muscat/ Fu- 18 47,903 1,421 2.97 Pty Ltd jairah/ Doha Jun-01 International Livestock Fremantle Dammam 13 987 46 4.66 Export (WA) Pty Ltd Jun-01 Renny Gardiner (Ex- Darwin Tanjung Priok 5 619 31 5.01 ports) Pty Ltd Jun-01 Fares International Portland/ Aqaba/ Ad- 26 62,230 2,600 4.18 Trading Ltd Fremantle abiya Jul-01 Rural Export and Portland/ Jebel Ali/ 24 146 5 3.42 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Fremantle Kuwait/ Bah- rain/ Muscat Jul-01 Livestock Shipping Adelaide/ Aqaba 26 1,920 146 7.60 Services Fremantle/ Port Hedland Jul-01 Rural Export and Fremantle Bahrain/ 18 76,846 1,663 2.16 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Kuwait/ Mus- cat

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11733

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Aug-01 Rural Export and Portland/ Jebel Ali/ 29 2,345 2.12 378 12 3.17 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Fremantle Kuwait/ Mus- 110,538 cat Aug-01 Rural Export and Fremantle Bahrain/ 18 67,005 1,624 2.42 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Kuwait/ Jebel Ali Aug-01 Fares International Adelaide/ Aqaba 25 51,708 1,226 2.37 Trading Ltd Fremantle Sep-01 Elders International Port Hedland Manzanillo 31 1,869 23 1.23 Australia Ltd Sep-01 Rural Export and Portland Jebel Ali/ 23 79,245 2,106 2.66 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Kuwait/ Bah- rain/ Muscat Sep-01 Livestock Shipping Fremantle/ Aqaba 24 578 14 2.42 Services Port Hedland Sep-01 Haddleton Holdings Broome Port Kelang 6 1,700 98 5.76

Sep-01 Haddleton Holdings Broome Port Kelang 8 985 35 3.55

Sep-01 Rural Export and Fremantle Jebel Ali/ 18 72,158 1,966 2.72 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Bahrain/ Kuwait Sep-01 Fares International Fremantle/ Adabiya/ 30 49,985 1,290 2.58 Trading Ltd Darwin Aqaba

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11734 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Oct-01 Rural Export and Portland Muscat/ Ku- 22 80,852 2,620 3.24 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd wait/ Bahrain/ Jebel Ali Nov-01 Halleen Australasia Fremantle Jakarta 8 1,189 16 1.35 Livestock Traders Pty Ltd Dec-01 Fares International Portland/ Adabiya/ 24 48,494 2,286 4.71 Trading Ltd Adelaide Aqaba Dec-01 Basin Exports Portland Manzanillo 26 1,551 75 4.84 Dec-01 Labroy Marine Darwin Jakarta 8 925 5 0.54 Dec-01 Renny Gardiner (Ex- Fremantle Tanjung Priok 6 629 12 1.91 ports) Pty Ltd Dec-01 Rural Export and Portland Jebel Ali/ 20 75,158 1,593 2.12 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Kuwait Jan-02 Halleen Australasia Geraldton Jakarta 7 640 4 0.63 Livestock Traders Pty Ltd Jan-02 Wellard Rural Export Portland Jeddah 24 699 3.45 Pty Ltd 20,24 0 Feb-02 Haddleton Holdings Geraldton Port Kelang 9 738 5 0.68 Feb-02 International Livestock Fremantle Port Kelang 9 758 27 3.56 Export (WA) Pty Ltd Feb-02 Austock Export Pty Ltd Darwin Jakarta 11 1,169 99 8.47

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11735

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Feb-02 UNKNOWN Devonport/ Bahrain/ Jebel 25 716 14 1.96 68,824 1,399 2.03 Portland Ali/ Kuwait/ Muscat Mar-02 Brunei Meat Export Darwin Muara 8 467 3 0.64 Company Pty Ltd Mar-02 Wellard Rural Export Fremantle Adabiya 19 2,254 33 1.46 Pty Ltd Apr-02 Brunei Meat Export Darwin/ Muara 15 460 29 6.30 Company Pty Ltd Townsville Apr-02 Fares International Fremantle/ Adabiya 30 499 12 2.40 Trading Ltd Portland/ Townsville Jun-02 Corral Line Broome Port Kelang 9 839 83 9.89

Jun-02 Wellard Rural Export Fremantle/ Dammam/ 27 1,995 614 30.78 63,434 1,418 2.24 Pty Ltd Portland Doha/ Fujairah Jun-02 Halleen Australasia Broome Tanjung Priok 5 781 4 0.51 Livestock Traders Pty Ltd Jul-02 Rural Export and Fremantle/ Bahrain/ Jebel 27 85,974 5,800 6.75 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Portland Ali/ Kuwait Jul-02 Fares International Fremantle/ Jeddah 26 52,485 1,064 2.03 Trading Ltd Adelaide

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11736 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Departure Export Licence Holder Loading Port Destination Voyage Cattle Numbers*(f) Sheep Numbers*(f) Goat Numbers*(f) Date (a) (d) Port/s (e) Length Load Loss % Load Loss % Load Loss % (b & c) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) (g) (h) (i) Jul-02 International Livestock Fremantle/ Jebel Ali/ 24 55,594 6,119 11.01 Export (WA) Pty Ltd Portland Kuwait Aug-02 Rural Export and Portland/ Kuwait/ Bah- 26 77,158 2,173 2.82 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Fremantle rain/ Muscat Sep-02 Rural Export and Portland Bahrain/ 23 74,740 2,304 3.08 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Dubai/ Kuwait Sep-02 Rural Export and Fremantle Bahrain/ 18 44 1 2.27 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Dubai/ Ku- wait/ Muscat Oct-02 Rural Export and Fremantle/ Bahrain/ Jebel 22 71,304 2,464 3.46 Trading (WA) Pty Ltd Adelaide Ali/ Kuwait/ Muscat Oct-02 Australian Exports Pty Broome Pasir Gudang 8 1,560 8 0.51 Ltd Dec-02 Brunei Meat Export Darwin Muara 7 900 6 0.67 Company Pty Ltd

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11737

Trade: Livestock Export Accreditation Program (Question No. 1178) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 24 February 2003: (1) Was Rural Export & Trading (WA) Pty Ltd accredited under the Livestock Export Accreditation Program when its export licence was suspended in January 2003? (2) Is Rural Export & Trading (WA) Pty Ltd currently accredited under the Livestock Export Accredi- tation Program? (3) Was Sampak Pty Ltd accredited under the Livestock Export Accreditation Program when its export licence was cancelled in November 2002? (4) Is Sampak Pty Ltd currently accredited under the Livestock Export Accreditation Program? Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) Yes (2) Yes (3) Yes (4) No Defence: Russell Offices (Question No. 1191) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Finance and Administration, upon notice, on 24 February 2003: In relation to the sale and leaseback of Russell Offices, Canberra: (1) Has a property sales consultant been engaged to manage the sale process. (2) (a) Who is the property sales manager; and (b) what are the terms of the contract with that consultant, including details of remuneration. (3) Has the sale itself been advertised; if so, how many organisations have expressed an interest in buying the property. (4) When is it expected that the sale will occur. (5) Has any thought been given to the future lease or rent arrangements. (6) What is the status of the consideration of security issues associated with the sale of Russell Offices. Senator Minchin—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) N/A. The Government has decided not to proceed with the sale of Russell Offices. (2) N/A

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11738 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(3) N/A (4) N/A (5) N/A (6) N/A Environment: Water Management (Question No. 1198) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 25 February 2003: With reference to the Commonwealth commitment of $2.65 million to the Murrumbidgee Valley Water Efficiency Feasibility Project: (1) When will this funding be expended. (2) Will the Commonwealth provide other resources to the project; if so, can details be provided. (3) Is it the case that the New South Wales Government will make a contribution of $2.65 million to the project. (4) What contribution of funding and resources will Pratt Water make to the project. (5) Is it the case that the New South Wales Minister for Land and Water Conservation, Mr Aquilina, announced the project funding arrangements, including the Commonwealth contribution, on 19 December 2002. (6) Why did the Minister re-announce the project on 11 February 2003. (7) How will the project complement the Commonwealth’s ‘broader discussions and on water property rights. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) Funding will be expended once contractual arrangements are finalised and upon approval by the Commonwealth/New South Wales (NSW) Natural Resource Management (NRM) Steering Committee of individual project plans for each phase of the study. (2) No additional resources have been allocated to the project. However, the Commonwealth may provide information to the project from existing sources. (3) The Commonwealth and NSW governments are each providing matching funding of up to $2.65 million to the project. (4) Pratt Water, which fully funded the Pratt Water report, “Water in the Murrumbidgee Valley”, is to provide and bear the cost of 8 dedicated full time officers plus associated support for office accommodation, IT network and general corporate services. (5) On the 19 and 20 December, NSW and the Commonwealth ministers put out media releases announcing the two government’s joint commitment to fund the feasibility study. (6) On 11 February the Federal Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, the Hon Warren Truss MP, and the Federal Minister for Environment and Heritage, the Hon David Kemp MP, the Federal Member of Riverina, Mrs Kay Hull MP and Mr Richard Pratt provided a joint media release on progress of the project. (7) The project will complement the Commonwealth’s broader discussions on water by: • preparing a full feasibility or ‘business case’ for future investment by public and private investors in water savings within the case study area - the Murrumbidgee River System in southern NSW; and

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11739

• as a pilot study, providing lessons and analysis that may be applied more broadly in considering water savings investments in other areas of NSW and in developing a national approach to water savings. Agriculture: Dairy Structural Adjustment Program (Question No. 1200) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 25 February 2003: Does the Department hold an original copy of the Dairy Structural Adjustment Program Application pack, including an application book and guide incorporating an application form; if so, can a copy be provided; if not, why not. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: The Dairy Structural Adjustment Program booklet including application forms, is available from the Senate Table Office Agriculture: Supplementary Dairy Assistance Scheme (Question No. 1214) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 25 February 2003: In relation to discretionary payment right determinations under the Supplementary Dairy Assistance (SDA) scheme: (1) Can details be provided of matters taken into account when determining whether an eligible dairy leasing arrangement exists. (2) Which specific matters, including but not limited to the assessment of dairy leasing arrangements, were taken into account in relation to assessment of SDA applications from Fiona Wilson, Leanne Berboon and Phillip Stoll. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) Under the Supplementary Dairy Assistance Scheme (SDA) the matters taken into account to determine whether an eligible dairy leasing arrangement exists are those defined in the Diary Struc- tural Adjustment Program (DSAP) scheme. Factors taken into account in making this assessment are: a. Whether quota was required for the delivery of market milk by the enterprise in 1998/99. b. If quota was required, whether the owner of quota used by the enterprise leased some or all of the quota. c. Whether the lease of the quota was for the purpose of delivering milk produced by the enterprise. d. If quota was not required, whether the legal owner of land on which a milking shed was situated leased the land. e. Whether the land was leased for the purpose of delivering milk produced by the enterprise. f. Whether the lease was still in existence at 6.30 pm on 28 September 1999. If it is unclear whether a lease exists, but there is an arrangement in place whereby land on which a milking shed is situated is being used by someone other than the owner for the purposes of producing milk, an assessment is made of whether the arrangement has the attributes of a lease. In making

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11740 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

this assessment, the Dairy Adjustment Authority (DAA) has regard to the terms of the arrangement as disclosed by the written agreement between the parties or other available evidence if no written agreement exists. (2) The DAA has advised that it is unable under clause 43 of Schedule 2 to the Dairy Produce Act to disclose details in relation to particular cases. Agriculture: South Johnstone Sugar Mill (Question No. 1219) Senator McLucas asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 27 February 2003: (1) (a) Can a list be provided of meetings in which the Government and/or the department discussed the financial situation facing the South Johnstone sugar mill in far north Queensland including dates and who was present; and (b) can a copy of the department’s minutes of the meetings be provided. (2) (a) What due diligence or any other analysis of the financial situation facing South Johnstone Mill Limited did the Government undertake prior to agreeing to provide $3 375 000 in finance to the mill; and (b) can a copy of this analysis be provided. (3) (a) What safeguards did the Government put in place prior to lending this money to ensure that taxpayers’ money would be repaid; and (b) can an outline of the terms of the financial agreement be provided. (4) How much money was finally provided to finance South Johnstone Mill Limited; (b) when were these monies paid; (c) how much has been repaid and when did this occur; and (d) what is the Government doing to recoup outstanding monies. (5) What action did the Government take when notified by CJ Cooper and Associates, solicitors for the Canegrowers Organisation, by facsimile on 5 July 2000 that advertising under the Cane Supply and Processing Agreement, dated 26 May 2000, had not been undertaken correctly as required under the Queensland Sugar Act 1999; and (b) what involvement did the Government have in this advertisement. (6) As a creditor to South Johnstone Mill Limited, what involvement did the Government have in the sale of the mill to Bundaberg Sugar Limited; and (b) can a list be provided of meetings at which the sale of the South Johnstone mill was discussed, including dates and attendees. (7) What proposals and options were considered prior to the sale of the South Johnstone sugar mill to Bundaberg Sugar. (8) What involvement did the Government have in the March 2001 novation and amendment deed between South Johnstone Mill Limited, Canegrowers South Johnstone Mills Suppliers’ Committee, South Johnstone Mill Negotiating Team and Bundaberg Sugar Limited. (9) Is the repayment of the Government finance to South Johnstone Mill dependent on the validity of this deed. (10) Can copies of any advice, legal or other, received in relation to this deed be provided. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) to (10) The Australian Government Solicitor’s office has advised that those matters are the subject of current legal proceedings and as such cannot be answered. The sub-judice convention should be observed, particularly as many of the questions relate to documents which are central to issues that are before the Supreme Court in this case.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11741

Manildra Group of Companies (Question No. 1287) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources, upon notice, on 18 March 2003: What payments, subsidies, grants, gratuities or awards have been made to the Manildra group of companies, including but not necessarily limited to Manildra Energy Australia Pty Ltd, since March 1996. Senator Minchin—The Acting Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: Manildra Energy Australia Pty Ltd has been paid ethanol subsidy payments amounting to $12,950,833.30 between 17 October 2002 and 26 March 2003. There is no record of any payment to Manildra Energy Australia Pty Ltd before 17 October 2002. No record of payment for any other company from the Manildra group was found since March 1996. Medicare: Bulk-Billing (Question No. 1345) Senator Allison asked the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 25 March 2003: What was the percentage of bulk billed general practitioner unreferred attendances, by vocationally registered and non-vocationally registered, by electorate, for the March 2003 quarter (due for release April 2003). Senator Patterson—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: In the March quarter 2003, the percentage of unreferred attendances that were bulk billed, involving recognised general practitioners and other general practitioners was as follows: Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total Adelaide 56.4 56.9 56.9 Aston 62.5 73.6 72.8 Ballarat 38.3 41.5 41.3 Banks 98.4 80.8 82.1 Barker 28.2 39.7 37.8 Barton 98.4 91.5 92.4 Bass 73.8 41.5 42.8 Batman 94.0 85.7 86.6 Bendigo 68.0 47.3 49.2 Bennelong 93.8 81.1 82.0 Berowra 54.7 72.2 71.6 Blair 87.3 71.7 75.1 Blaxland 98.9 94.1 94.6 Bonython 94.6 88.8 89.1 Boothby 52.5 50.5 50.6 Bowman 71.4 70.5 70.6 Braddon 68.6 46.6 50.9 Bradfield 60.2 65.7 65.2 Brand 63.2 61.7 61.8 Brisbane 57.7 63.9 63.5 Bruce 84.7 73.3 74.5

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11742 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total Burke 65.6 56.6 57.8 Calare 76.9 58.4 59.5 Calwell 78.4 82.3 81.9 Canberra 36.8 40.0 40.0 Canning 56.0 48.6 49.2 Capricornia 76.2 35.4 44.3 Casey 85.2 61.8 64.0 Charlton 75.0 54.3 55.4 Chifley 99.8 98.7 98.8 Chisholm 86.3 76.1 76.8 Cook 83.2 72.0 72.7 Corangamite 54.0 38.9 39.9 Corio 58.7 57.3 57.3 Cowan 56.8 73.7 73.2 Cowper 49.4 46.9 47.1 Cunningham 78.7 80.8 80.7 Curtin 63.5 54.2 54.7 Dawson 86.9 60.1 65.9 Deakin 79.5 61.2 62.0 Denison 48.0 49.1 49.0 Dickson 63.9 47.9 48.1 Dobell 69.6 52.5 52.9 Dunkley 65.3 43.5 45.0 Eden-Monaro 38.3 33.7 34.2 Fadden 51.6 74.5 73.0 Fairfax 55.9 50.1 50.6 Farrer 54.6 37.0 39.8 Fisher 80.9 62.6 63.7 Flinders 72.0 42.6 45.6 Forde 79.9 78.4 78.6 Forrest 47.6 51.8 51.7 Fowler 99.0 98.4 98.5 Franklin 62.6 56.1 56.4 Fraser 46.9 32.1 33.0 Fremantle 92.8 68.5 69.6 Gellibrand 96.7 88.2 89.3 Gilmore 63.3 57.9 58.5 Gippsland 29.9 45.9 44.2 Goldstein 63.2 55.9 56.5 Grayndler 96.3 92.8 93.1 Greenway 98.7 98.0 98.0 Grey 77.2 64.0 67.5 Griffith 71.2 59.9 60.4 Groom 76.8 50.5 52.2 Gwydir 89.8 60.3 64.6 Hasluck 82.8 71.3 71.7 Herbert 86.3 55.7 60.2

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11743

Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total Higgins 67.5 59.9 60.6 Hindmarsh 48.5 62.8 62.2 Hinkler 71.1 26.2 41.6 Holt 84.1 74.9 75.5 Hotham 92.7 82.0 83.2 Hughes 74.0 75.7 75.6 Hume 78.7 50.0 53.4 Hunter 48.2 44.7 45.0 Indi 35.5 27.0 27.7 Isaacs 76.1 68.8 69.3 Jagajaga 89.8 68.4 69.9 Kalgoorlie 67.5 61.0 62.9 Kennedy 81.3 51.1 57.4 Kingsford-Smith 92.9 90.0 90.1 Kingston 80.5 57.7 58.5 Kooyong 46.3 66.0 65.2 La Trobe 69.9 61.4 62.1 Lalor 84.5 77.8 78.7 Leichhardt 96.1 74.5 78.3 Lilley 66.4 59.3 59.5 Lindsay 82.4 86.8 86.4 Lingiari 71.8 67.2 68.3 Longman 80.7 73.0 74.0 Lowe 81.2 95.7 95.4 Lyne 59.3 55.7 56.0 Lyons 84.2 76.9 78.2 Macarthur 90.8 89.3 89.4 Mackellar 78.8 72.5 72.8 Macquarie 73.7 65.9 66.4 Makin 88.4 57.3 58.0 Mallee 65.5 51.3 55.5 Maranoa 77.4 46.4 52.3 Maribyrnong 90.8 83.6 84.3 Mayo 39.3 51.1 50.4 McEwen 68.9 56.3 57.6 McMillan 83.8 65.9 69.8 McPherson 73.8 70.6 70.7 Melbourne 77.6 80.9 80.3 Melbourne Ports 63.8 78.1 77.2 Menzies 90.7 71.0 72.8 Mitchell 77.5 81.0 80.9 Moncrieff 71.5 64.9 65.6 Moore 79.2 65.1 65.9 Moreton 62.7 67.6 67.5 Murray 24.3 29.1 28.3 New England 48.2 46.3 46.5 Newcastle 55.8 63.6 63.1

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11744 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total North Sydney 53.5 54.2 54.2 O’Connor 58.4 45.6 47.5 Oxley 79.2 79.0 79.0 Page 38.9 42.9 42.6 Parkes 77.3 64.1 67.5 Parramatta 87.2 91.3 91.1 Paterson 52.5 50.3 50.4 Pearce 66.2 73.0 72.2 Perth 76.3 75.4 75.5 Petrie 68.3 57.7 58.5 Port Adelaide 99.0 85.1 86.1 Prospect 97.5 97.2 97.3 Rankin 84.8 86.3 86.2 Reid 98.8 97.4 97.5 Richmond 90.3 62.6 65.5 Riverina 51.8 41.4 43.7 Robertson 66.5 59.5 59.6 Ryan 29.5 45.2 44.6 Scullin 97.9 86.0 87.6 Shortland 60.5 46.4 46.6 Solomon 56.1 53.3 53.7 Stirling 74.0 76.4 76.4 Sturt 54.0 56.3 56.2 Swan 56.3 76.9 75.7 Sydney 78.0 83.3 82.9 Tangney 66.0 57.6 58.0 Throsby 84.1 96.3 96.1 Wakefield 49.8 36.7 38.3 Wannon 62.3 44.5 46.9 Warringah 61.0 73.0 72.8 Watson 97.6 96.8 96.8 Wentworth 61.9 70.7 69.9 Werriwa 98.6 96.0 96.1 Wide Bay 72.1 55.0 60.4 Wills 88.5 81.0 81.5

TOTAL 74.7 68.0 68.6 These statistics relate to unreferred attendances involving general practitioners that were rendered on a ‘fee-for-service’ basis and for which benefits were processed by the Health Insurance Commission in the March quarter 2003. Excluded are details of services to public patients in hospital, to Department of Veterans’ Affairs patients and some compensation cases. In general terms, practitioners with more than 50% of Schedule fee income from unreferred attendances in the March quarter 2003, were considered to be general practitioners. ‘Recognised General Practitio- ners’ comprise fellows of the College of General Practitioners, Vocationally Registered general practitioners and general practitioner trainees. The statistics were compiled from Medicare data by servicing provider postcode. Where a postcode overlapped federal electorate division boundaries, the statistics were allocated to electorate using statis-

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11745 tics from the Census of Population and Housing showing the proportion of the population of the postcode in each electoral division. Medicare statistics for some postcodes, which are not on the Census file, have not been included in the above table. The statistics in the above table will not agree with other published statistics on bulk billing for unreferred attendances by federal electoral division, since these statistics have been further restricted to unreferred attendances rendered by general practitioners. The statistics exclude unreferred attendances rendered by specialists, who have seen patients on a non-referred basis. Trade: Diseased Wheat (Question No. 1347) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister representing the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry, upon notice, on 25 March 2003: In relation to the shipment of diseased wheat that arrived in Australia from England in March 2003 aboard the MV Baytur: (1) Where was the wheat grown. (2) When was the import permit issued. (3) When was the wheat loaded. (4) How much wheat was loaded. (5) (a) What tests were undertaken prior to departure for quarantine purposes; (b) on what date or dates were these tests done; (c) which agency or agencies conducted these tests; (d) what were the results of these tests; (e) on what date or dates were these results known; and (f) on what date was the Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (AQIS) informed of these results. (6) When and where did the ship depart England. (7) (a) What tests were undertaken en route for quarantine purposes; (b) on what date or dates were these tests done; (c) which agency or agencies conducted these tests; (d) what were the results of these tests; (e) on what date or dates were these results known; (f) on what date was AQIS informed of the results. (8) (a) Who decided to permit the importation of the wheat; and (b) when was this decision made. (9) (a) Which individuals or organisations were consulted prior to making this decision; (b) on what date or dates did that consultation occur; (c) what was the nature of the consultation; (d) what information was given to the individuals or organisations consulted; (e) was advice on approval or rejection of the shipment sought; if so, what advice was received; and (f) was advice on post-entry quarantine measures sought; if so, what advice was received. (10) Was the Minister informed of the test results; if so: (a) when was the Minister informed; and (b) what action did the Minister take. (11) When and where was the wheat unloaded. (12) (a) What post-entry quarantine measures were applied; (b) when and where were these measures applied; (c) did these measures include additional sampling; (d) did these measures differ from the standard treatment of wheat imports; and (e) was the Minister consulted on these measures. (13) Is the disease in the wheat otherwise present in Australia; if not, what would be the consequences of an outbreak of the disease in Australia. (14) What was the destination of the wheat. Senator Ian Macdonald—The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The wheat was grown in England.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11746 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(2) The import permit was issued on 2 January 2003. (3) The wheat was loaded on 22 January 2003. (4) 49,795 metric tonnes of wheat was loaded. (5) (a) Samples for testing for Hymenula cerealis were taken prior to departure; (b) The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service (AQIS) was advised that the test for Hy- menula cerealis was initiated on 22 January 2003 and concluded on 13 February 2003. (c) The Plant Health Division of the Department of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (DEFRA) in the United Kingdom (UK) conducted the test. (d) Test results revealed the presence of Hymenula cerealis in the tested sample. (e) AQIS was advised that the tests were completed on 13 February 2003. (f) AQIS was informed of the results by importer Hunter Grain Pty Ltd on 14 February 2003. (6) The ship departed England from the port of Portbury on 22 January 2003. (7) (a) The test for the presence of Hymenula cerealis was undertaken while the vessel was en route to Australia. (b) The test was initiated on 22 January 2003 and concluded on 13 February 2003. (c) DEFRA conducted the test. (d) Test results revealed the presence of Hymenula cerealis in the tested sample. (e) AQIS was advised that the tests were completed on 13 February 2003. (f) AQIS was informed of the results on 14 February 2003. (8) (a) The Manager, Grain, Seeds and Nursery Stock, AQIS made the decision to permit the importation of the wheat; (b) 4 March 2003. (9) (a) NSW Agriculture, the Grains Research & Development Corporation, Grains Council of Aus- tralia and Plant Health Australia. (b) Consultation occurred between the 14 and 25 February 2003. (c) Officers of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Forestry convened a meeting on 25 February 2003 with relevant stakeholders and technical experts. (d) Biosecurity Australia outlined the biology of the fungus Hymenula cerealis. (e) Technical experts present at the meeting held on 25 February 2003 agreed that the presence of the fungus at the levels tested did not alter the low risk status of the wheat from the UK and that the procedures laid down in AQIS’s import protocol would address any quarantine risk associated with the fungus. (f) Technical experts present at the meeting held 25 February 2003 agreed that permitting the shipment to discharge in Newcastle and Melbourne for immediate processing at the closest approved processing facilities and being managed in accordance with AQIS’s import protocol, would address any quarantine risk associated with the fungus. (10) (a) 18 February 2003. (b) The Minister noted the advice. (11) The wheat was discharged on 11 March 2003 at Bulk Terminals Australia Pty Ltd, Denison St, Carrington, NSW 2294; and 19 March 2003 at Australian Bulk Alliance Pty Ltd, 18-20 Enterprise Road, West Melbourne, VIC 3003.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11747

(12) (a) The shipment was permitted entry subject to it being discharged in the ports of Newcastle and Melbourne for immediate processing at the closest approved processing facilities and being managed in accordance with AQIS’s import protocol. (b) The measures were applied at discharge at the ports of Newcastle and Melbourne. (c) The frequency of sampling and testing of processed pellets to verify treatment efficacy was increased as an additional precaution. (d) Yes. (e) The Minister was advised. (13) No. The consequences of an outbreak in Australia are unknown, however the disease is managed in other countries by crop rotation and fungicide treatment of seed. There are no known quarantine impediments required by Australia’s trading partners. (14) The wheat was destined for processing in the metropolitan areas of the ports of entry by hammer milling followed by steam sterilisation and pelletisation for poultry feed purposes. Health: North Queensland General Practitioners (Question No. 1368) Senator McLucas asked the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 27 March 2003: (1) What were the quarterly general practitioner to patient ratios for the districts of Mackay, Whitsunday, Townsville, Thuringowa, Cairns and Mt Isa for the past five years. (2) Can a list be provided of districts in Queensland that are currently listed as areas of workforce shortage where overseas-trained doctors can work. (3) Can the following information be provided, by scheme or program: (a) how many overseas-trained doctors are working in each of these districts; and (b) what conditions are placed on their employment. (4) Under which scheme or program were the three overseas-trained doctors recently given Medicare provider numbers for ‘The Doctors Clinic’ in Townsville. (5) What criteria were used to assess this application and grant these overseas-trained doctors with provider numbers. (6) Is whether a medical practice bulk bills or not considered as a criterion in determining a practice’s access to overseas-trained doctors. (7) Is whether a practice provides after-hours care considered as a criterion in determining a practice’s access to overseas-trained doctors. (8) (a) How many requests for provider numbers for overseas-trained doctors for Townsville have been received in the past 3 years; and (b) how many have been granted. (9) How does the Department monitor compliance by overseas-trained doctors who have been allocated provider numbers with the condition that they work after hours only. (10) Did the Department consider the impact on the Townsville Division of General Practice After Hours Service prior to approving additional overseas-trained doctors provider numbers for ‘The Doctors Clinic’ in Townsville. (11) What action is being taken by the Department to ensure that the Townsville Division of General Practice After Hours Service does not close due to the additional competition from these overseas- trained doctors. Senator Patterson—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11748 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(1) The quarterly full-time equivalent general practitioner to population ratios for the districts of Mackay, Whitsunday, Townsville, Thurngowa, Cairns and Mount Isa from September 1998 to December 2002 are as follows:

Year/Quarter Mackay (a) Whitsunday (b) Townsville (c) Thuringowa (d) Cairns (e) Mt Isa (f) 1998/3 1,341 1,549 1,390 2,533 1,430 3,858 1998/4 1,353 1,647 1,387 2,623 1,402 3,320 1999/1 1,346 1,558 1,393 2,608 1,377 3,300 1999/2 1,413 1,569 1,437 2,808 1,377 3,180 1999/3 1,393 1,536 1,424 2,589 1,416 3,242 1999/4 1,331 1,427 1,527 2,709 1,420 2,990 2000/1 1,297 1,417 1,562 2,634 1,415 3,084 2000/2 1,337 1,455 1,560 2,381 1,417 3,175 2000/3 1,312 1,131 1,536 2,477 1,477 3,021 2000/4 1,321 1,184 1,539 2,595 1,386 3,015 2001/1 1,243 1,223 1,565 2,348 1,349 2,867 2001/2 1,292 1,139 1,641 2,552 1,365 2,990 2001/3 1,211 1,128 1,661 2,479 1,327 3,489 2001/4 1,197 1,163 1,733 2,537 1,289 3,288 2002/1 1,131 997 1,644 2,528 1,295 3,526 2002/2 1,197 1,055 1,682 2,327 1,322 2,874 2002/3 1,132 1,039 1,678 2,472 1,340 3,439 2002/4 1,153 1,059 1,614 2,401 1,350 2,895 (a) Statistical Local Area: Mackay (C) - Pt A (b) Statistical Local Area: Whitsunday (S) (c) Townsville City Part A (Statistical Subdivision)(Magnetic Island SLA not included) and Thuringowa City Part A (Statistical Subdivision)(Thuringowa (C) - Pt A Bal (Statistical Local Area) not included) (d) Thuringowa (C) - Pt A Bal SLA (part of Thuringowa City Part A (Statistical Subdivision)) and Thuringowa (C) - Pt B (part of Northern SD Bal (Statistical Subdivision)) (e) Cairns City Part A Statistical Subdivision (f) Statistical Local Area: Mount Isa (C) (2) The designation as a district of workforce shortage applies to communities that are considered to have less access to medical professional services than that experienced by the population in general. This may be either because of the remote nature of the community or because of lack of supply of services or a combination of both factors. Those non-metropolitan Statistical Local Areas (SLAs) in Queensland that currently have doctor to population ratios worse than the national average are: Arundel Burnett (S) - Pt B Hinchinbrook (S) excl. Palm I. Ashmore Cairns (C) - Northern Suburbs Ipswich (C) - West Biggera Waters Cairns (C) - Trinity Isis (S) Coombabah Toowoomba (C) - South-East Laidley (S) Coomera-Cedar Creek Calliope (S) - Pt A Livingstone (S) Currumbin Calliope (S) - Pt B Mackay (C) - Pt B Currumbin Waters Caloundra (C) - Caloundra S. Millmerran (S) Elanora Beaudesert (S) - Pt B Rosalie (S) - Pt B Guanaba-Currumbin Valley Boonah (S) Sarina (S) Helensvale Burdekin (S) Tiaro (S)

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11749

Hollywell Caboolture (S) - Pt B Townsville (C) - Pt B Hope Island Cairns (C) - Pt B Waggamba (S) Kelso Cambooya (S) - Pt A Wambo (S) Kirwan Cambooya (S) - Pt B Wondai (S) Mt Louisa-Mt St John-Bohle Cardwell (S) Belyando (S) Mudgeeraba Charters Towers (C) Duaringa (S) Murray Clifton (S) Flinders (S) North Ward-Castle Hill Cook (S) (excl. Weipa) Isisford (S) Oonoonba-Idalia-Cluden Cooloola (S) - Gympie only Jericho (S) Oxenford Cooloola (S) (excl. Gympie) Longreach (S) Pallarenda-Shelley Beach Crow’s Nest (S) - Pt A McKinlay (S) Palm Beach Crow’s Nest (S) - Pt B Murweh (S) Paradise Point Croydon (S) Nebo (S) Parkwood Dalrymple (S) Peak Downs (S) Runaway Bay Douglas (S) Tambo (S) South Townsville Eacham (S) Tara (S) Stuart-Roseneath Esk (S) Taroom (S) Thuringowa (C) - Pt A Bal Etheridge (S) Torres (S) Thuringowa (C) - Pt B Fitzroy (S) - Pt A Warroo (S) West End Fitzroy (S) - Pt B Worongary-Tallai Gatton (S) Wulguru Hinchinbrook (S) - Palm Island

(3) (a) Overseas-trained doctors are directed to districts of workforce shortage through the restrictions placed on their access to Medicare benefits contained in Section 19AB of the Health Insurance Act 1973. As at 11 April 2003, 386 overseas-trained doctors with Section 19AB exemptions in Queensland, the great majority of which are located in rural and remote areas. In Townsville and Thuringowa SLAs there are 19 overseas trained doctors with Section 19AB exemptions servicing the following areas: Thuringowa (C) - Pt B Mundingburra Kelso Murray Kirwan North Ward-Castle Hill Thuringowa (C) - Pt A Bal Oonoonba-Idalia-Cluden Aitkenvale Pallarenda-Shelley Beach City Pimlico Cranbrook Railway Estate Currajong Rosslea Douglas Rowes Bay-Belgian Gardens Garbutt South Townsville Gulliver Stuart-Roseneath Heatley Vincent Hermit Park West End Hyde Park-Mysterton Wulguru Mt Louisa-Mt St John-Bohle (b) Section 19AB exemptions are location and time specific. The exemptions are specific to a practice or practices. Temporary resident doctors may receive exemptions for up to two years

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11750 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

at a time and permanent resident doctors for up to five years at a time. Other conditions may be added, for example to work after hours only. (4) The three overseas-trained doctors at ‘The Doctors Clinic’ Townsville were given in-principle agreement to operate with Medicare access under the provisions of Section 19AB of the Health Insurance Act 1973. (5) The Department was advised that the overseas-trained doctors would work after hours only. The medical workforce for after hours work is in shortage and therefore the application for in principle support was approved. (6) No. (7) The nature of the services to be provided by the overseas-trained doctor, rather than the fact that the service provides after hours services, is what is taken into account. (8) (a) and (b) Since 1 July 2001, applications have been received and granted for an exemption for 23 overseas-trained doctors to operate as general practitioners in Townsville and Thuringowa SLAs. Due to database limitations, the Department is only able to provide statistics on the number of formal applications for exemptions received from overseas trained doctors since 1 July 2001. (9) If evidence of non-compliance is brought to the attention of the Health Insurance Commission, it will investigate these cases. If an allegation is proven, the access to Medicare may be revoked. (10) Section 19AB of the Health Insurance Act 1973 requires the Department to make an assessment on whether to place an overseas-trained doctor on the basis of overall community need for medical services in a local area. (11) The Department has entered into a Funding Agreement with the Townsville Division of General Practice to provide funding of $1,493,864 over the period 1 January 2002 until 31 December 2004 in order to support the establishment of a regional After Hours Primary Medical Care service. The Department provides ongoing support and advice to the Townsville Division of General Practice after hours service. National Security: Information Kits (Question No. 1375) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 4 April 2002: (1) What is happening to anti-terrorism kits returned to sender with stamps. (2) If such kits are not being returned to the sender, on what basis are these postal articles, properly addressed and paid for, not being delivered. Senator Alston—The answer to the honourable senator’s question, based on advice received from Australia Post, is as follows: (1) and (2) In response to a request from the sender, the Department of Prime Minister & Cabinet, such articles were held for the Department at the office of delivery (Canberra South Delivery Centre). Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Web Site (Question No. 1405) Senator Lundy asked the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 22 April 2003: (1) On what date did the department first approach the private sector with the intention of upgrading its website.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11751

(2) (a) Which companies were approached for this opportunity; and (b) on what basis were these companies chosen. (3) At that time, what was the timetable for the implementation of the upgrade. (4) At that time, what was the budget allowance for the project in relation to the following areas: (a) website development; (b) the running environment for the site once it was live; (c) hardware; (d) software; (e) services to implement the software; and (f) any other areas. (5) Can details be provided of the process by which Fujitsu Australia was awarded the final contract. Senator Alston—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) An open tender for the Department of Communications, Information Technology and the Arts web redevelopment was advertised in the Melbourne Age and Canberra Times on 17 June 2000 and Sydney Morning Herald on 19 June 2000. (2) The project was undertaken on an open tender basis. (3) At the time the tender was released the timetable for the project was 3 months. (4) At the time the tender was issued the budget for the redevelopment (including development, software, hardware and implementation services) was $600,000. There was no budget allocated at that time for the ongoing running of the website. (5) Fujitsu Australia were awarded the contract in late December 2000 following a tender evaluation process conducted in-accordance with the Commonwealth Procurement Guidelines. Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Web Site (Question No. 1406) Senator Lundy asked the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 22 April 2003: With reference to the answer to a previous question on notice: (a) in the category of “Tender development/assessment, advertising” what specific costs made up the figure of $71,771.18; (b) in the category of “Website development” what specific costs made up the figure of $1,212,809.58; (c) in the category of “Hardware” what specific costs made up the figure of $661,426.00; (d) in the category of “Software” what specific costs made up the figure of $927,705.90; (e) in the category of “Hosting and support services” what specific costs made up the figure of $956,046.51; (f) in the category of “Enhancements” what specific costs made up the figure of $181,677.64 (in each instance can the costs be itemised). Senator Alston—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (a) Tender development/assessment, advertising Consultants $41,785.38 Evaluation software $6,675.00 Tender advertising $23,310.80 $71,771.18

(b) Website Development Milestone payments as per contract for Contract Signing, Deliv- $500,000.00 ery of Technical Design Specification, Delivery of Pilot site, Delivery of Principal Site and Acceptance of Principal Site Software & Infrastructure Development for commercialisation $102,877.00 Contractors $188,902.13 Consultants $245,751.90

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11752 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Accessibility review $7,000.00 Metadata Generation $51,100.00 Interface Development -Trim/ Vignette $117,178.55 $1,212,809.58

(c) Hardware Initial hardware $438,383.00 Additional hardware for commercialisation $182,002.00 Website backup tapes $10,000.00 Implementation of Development and Test environment $31,041.00 $661,426.00

(d) Software Initial software (which included Windows, SQL Microsoft $544,049.00 server, Exchange, Webtrends, MetaBrowser, Vignette software) One year Edrawer Software Licence $29,656.90 Additional Vignette V.5 licence for commercialisation $250,000.00 Upgrade to Vignette V6 $104,000.00 $927,705.90

(e) Hosting & Support Services Maintenance and software/application support $194,776.00 Consultants $4,333.16 ICON Secure Connection & Security check $56,814.00 Hosting & Secure environment fees $662,810.47 Global Server Certificates $3,100.00 Software Assurance for MS Windows Internet Connector, MS $34,212.88 SQL Server Enterprise Edition, MS Exchange CAL, and MS Exchange Conferencing Server $956,046.51

(f) Enhancements Enhancements, change requests, system changes prior to launch $144,107.64 Enhancements, change requests, system changes post launch $37,570.00 $181,677.64

Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Vignette Software (Question No. 1407) Senator Lundy asked the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 22 April 2003: (1) What is the current version of Vignette software used by the department. (2) Is there any intention to upgrade to the latest version of that software; if so, what are the additional costs associated with such an upgrade, including software, services and maintenance costs. Senator Alston—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows:

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11753

(1) The current version of Vignette used by the Department is Version 5.6. (2) Not at this stage, the Department is currently assessing its options in relation to software. Communications, Information Technology and the Arts: Web Site (Question No. 1408) Senator Lundy asked the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 22 April 2003: (1) What attention has been given to ensuring that the department’s website complies with web content accessibility guidelines such as those suggested by the World Wide Web Consortium. (2) How many separate failure incidents are generated when the World Wide Web Consortium ‘validator’ is run over the department’s website. Senator Alston—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The Department engaged Visions Australia in October 2001 and July 2002 to examine the website and assess its conformance with the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0. (2) Eleven non-fatal coding errors are generated on the home page by the World Wide Web Consor- tium ‘validator’. The errors do not affect the general operation of the site, and similar errors occur on many websites. These errors, which include specific code required to accommodate Internet Explorer and older browsers and code used to generate the current screen layout, will be progres- sively addressed during regular maintenance of the site, where cost effective Medicare: Bulk-Billing (Question No. 1410) Senator Allison asked the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 23 April 2003: (1) What is the percentage of bulk billed general practitioner (GP) unreferred attendances (vocationally registered and non-vocationally registered): (a) by federal electorates for the March 2003 quarter (due for release May 2003); and (b) by the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ statistical local areas for the March 2003 quarter. (2) For the most recent period collected, what is the average and median Medicare Benefit Schedule rebate received by GPs with vocationally registered provider numbers for unreferred attendances in: (a) each statistical local area; (b) federal electorates; and (c) across outer-urban, regional and metropolitan areas, by State. (3) What is the average and median total payment received by GPs with vocationally registered provider numbers for unreferred attendances in: (a) each statistical local area; (b) federal electorates; and (c) across outer-urban, regional and metropolitan areas, by State. Senator Patterson—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) (b), (2)(a) and (3)(a) Medicare statistics are captured at postcode level. It has not been possible to compile the requested statistics by the Australian Bureau of Statistics’ statistical local areas (SLA), since many postcodes overlap SLA boundaries. Furthermore, in some regions the small number of providers means that the statistics are confidential. (2) (c) and (3)(c) It has also not been possible to compile the requested statistics by outer urban, regional and metropolitan areas. However, the Rural and Remote Area (RRMA) Classification System has been used in the tables following, with the statistics being compiled by capital city, other metropolitan centre, and rural and remote areas. It should be noted that in calculating average and median Medicare Benefit rebate and total payments received per GP, that these figures include all GPs (for definition, see notes to the tables) and many of these work part-time.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11754 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(1) (a) In the March quarter 2003, the percentage of unreferred attendances that were bulk billed, by electorate, and involving recognised general practitioners and other general practitioners, was as follows: March Qtr 2003 Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total Adelaide 56.4 56.9 56.9 Aston 62.5 73.6 72.8 Ballarat 38.3 41.5 41.3 Banks 98.4 80.8 82.1 Barker 28.2 39.7 37.8 Barton 98.4 91.5 92.4 Bass 73.8 41.5 42.8 Batman 94.0 85.7 86.6 Bendigo 68.0 47.3 49.2 Bennelong 93.8 81.1 82.0 Berowra 54.7 72.2 71.6 Blair 87.3 71.7 75.1 Blaxland 98.9 94.1 94.6 Bonython 94.6 88.8 89.1 Boothby 52.5 50.5 50.6 Bowman 71.4 70.5 70.6 Braddon 68.6 46.6 50.9 Bradfield 60.2 65.7 65.2 Brand 63.2 61.7 61.8 Brisbane 57.7 63.9 63.5 Bruce 84.7 73.3 74.5 Burke 65.6 56.6 57.8 Calare 76.9 58.4 59.5 Calwell 78.4 82.3 81.9 Canberra 36.8 40.0 40.0 Canning 56.0 48.6 49.2 Capricornia 76.2 35.4 44.3 Casey 85.2 61.8 64.0 Charlton 75.0 54.3 55.4 Chifley 99.8 98.7 98.8 Chisholm 86.3 76.1 76.8 Cook 83.2 72.0 72.7 Corangamite 54.0 38.9 39.9 Corio 58.7 57.3 57.3 Cowan 56.8 73.7 73.2 Cowper 49.4 46.9 47.1 Cunningham 78.7 80.8 80.7 Curtin 63.5 54.2 54.7 Dawson 86.9 60.1 65.9 Deakin 79.5 61.2 62.0 Denison 48.0 49.1 49.0 Dickson 63.9 47.9 48.1 Dobell 69.6 52.5 52.9

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11755

March Qtr 2003 Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total Dunkley 65.3 43.5 45.0 Eden-Monaro 38.3 33.7 34.2 Fadden 51.6 74.5 73.0 Fairfax 55.9 50.1 50.6 Farrer 54.6 37.0 39.8 Fisher 80.9 62.6 63.7 Flinders 72.0 42.6 45.6 Forde 79.9 78.4 78.6 Forrest 47.6 51.8 51.7 Fowler 99.0 98.4 98.5 Franklin 62.6 56.1 56.4 Fraser 46.9 32.1 33.0 Fremantle 92.8 68.5 69.6 Gellibrand 96.7 88.2 89.3 Gilmore 63.3 57.9 58.5 Gippsland 29.9 45.9 44.2 Goldstein 63.2 55.9 56.5 Grayndler 96.3 92.8 93.1 Greenway 98.7 98.0 98.0 Grey 77.2 64.0 67.5 Griffith 71.2 59.9 60.4 Groom 76.8 50.5 52.2 Gwydir 89.8 60.3 64.6 Hasluck 82.8 71.3 71.7 Herbert 86.3 55.7 60.2 Higgins 67.5 59.9 60.6 Hindmarsh 48.5 62.8 62.2 Hinkler 71.1 26.2 41.6 Holt 84.1 74.9 75.5 Hotham 92.7 82.0 83.2 Hughes 74.0 75.7 75.6 Hume 78.7 50.0 53.4 Hunter 48.2 44.7 45.0 Indi 35.5 27.0 27.7 Isaacs 76.1 68.8 69.3 Jagajaga 89.8 68.4 69.9 Kalgoorlie 67.5 61.0 62.9 Kennedy 81.3 51.1 57.4 Kingsford-Smith 92.9 90.0 90.1 Kingston 80.5 57.7 58.5 Kooyong 46.3 66.0 65.2 La Trobe 69.9 61.4 62.1 Lalor 84.5 77.8 78.7 Leichhardt 96.1 74.5 78.3 Lilley 66.4 59.3 59.5 Lindsay 82.4 86.8 86.4 Lingiari 71.8 67.2 68.3

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11756 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

March Qtr 2003 Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total Longman 80.7 73.0 74.0 Lowe 81.2 95.7 95.4 Lyne 59.3 55.7 56.0 Lyons 84.2 76.9 78.2 Macarthur 90.8 89.3 89.4 Mackellar 78.8 72.5 72.8 Macquarie 73.7 65.9 66.4 Makin 88.4 57.3 58.0 Mallee 65.5 51.3 55.5 Maranoa 77.4 46.4 52.3 Maribyrnong 90.8 83.6 84.3 Mayo 39.3 51.1 50.4 McEwen 68.9 56.3 57.6 McMillan 83.8 65.9 69.8 McPherson 73.8 70.6 70.7 Melbourne 77.6 80.9 80.3 Melbourne Ports 63.8 78.1 77.2 Menzies 90.7 71.0 72.8 Mitchell 77.5 81.0 80.9 Moncrieff 71.5 64.9 65.6 Moore 79.2 65.1 65.9 Moreton 62.7 67.6 67.5 Murray 24.3 29.1 28.3 New England 48.2 46.3 46.5 Newcastle 55.8 63.6 63.1 North Sydney 53.5 54.2 54.2 O’Connor 58.4 45.6 47.5 Oxley 79.2 79.0 79.0 Page 38.9 42.9 42.6 Parkes 77.3 64.1 67.5 Parramatta 87.2 91.3 91.1 Paterson 52.5 50.3 50.4 Pearce 66.2 73.0 72.2 Perth 76.3 75.4 75.5 Petrie 68.3 57.7 58.5 Port Adelaide 99.0 85.1 86.1 Prospect 97.5 97.2 97.3 Rankin 84.8 86.3 86.2 Reid 98.8 97.4 97.5 Richmond 90.3 62.6 65.5 Riverina 51.8 41.4 43.7 Robertson 66.5 59.5 59.6 Ryan 29.5 45.2 44.6 Scullin 97.9 86.0 87.6 Shortland 60.5 46.4 46.6 Solomon 56.1 53.3 53.7 Stirling 74.0 76.4 76.4

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11757

March Qtr 2003 Percentage Bulk Billed Electorate Other GPs Recognised GPs Total Sturt 54.0 56.3 56.2 Swan 56.3 76.9 75.7 Sydney 78.0 83.3 82.9 Tangney 66.0 57.6 58.0 Throsby 84.1 96.3 96.1 Wakefield 49.8 36.7 38.3 Wannon 62.3 44.5 46.9 Warringah 61.0 73.0 72.8 Watson 97.6 96.8 96.8 Wentworth 61.9 70.7 69.9 Werriwa 98.6 96.0 96.1 Wide Bay 72.1 55.0 60.4 Wills 88.5 81.0 81.5 TOTAL 74.7 68.0 68.6 (2) (b) In the March quarter 2003, the average and median Medicare benefit income for recognised general practitioners, by federal electoral division, was as follows: March Qtr 2003 Medicare Benefit Income ($) Electorate Average Median Adelaide 25,240 22,305 Aston 36,660 34,704 Ballarat 30,705 32,898 Banks 35,127 33,367 Barker 25,842 25,408 Barton 38,867 35,361 Bass 26,619 26,012 Batman 38,822 35,313 Bendigo 30,862 33,501 Bennelong 32,558 29,096 Berowra 30,522 27,844 Blair 37,569 35,054 Blaxland 44,252 42,025 Bonython 46,820 47,859 Boothby 28,315 24,710 Bowman 32,867 32,858 Braddon 25,516 25,357 Bradfield 26,600 21,574 Brand 29,463 27,792 Brisbane 21,798 18,516 Bruce 39,999 40,479 Burke 30,358 28,290 Calare 26,238 23,415 Calwell 39,744 42,467 Canberra 22,076 21,920 Canning 31,011 31,421 Capricornia 31,478 32,688 Casey 33,743 33,093

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11758 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

March Qtr 2003 Medicare Benefit Income ($) Electorate Average Median Charlton 34,974 34,329 Chifley 49,744 53,370 Chisholm 30,937 29,543 Cook 33,046 31,868 Corangamite 27,563 28,976 Corio 31,626 27,797 Cowan 33,982 35,147 Cowper 26,918 26,201 Cunningham 37,654 35,002 Curtin 20,392 17,499 Dawson 29,127 27,341 Deakin 29,869 29,529 Denison 23,461 22,230 Dickson 32,095 33,466 Dobell 33,462 34,959 Dunkley 31,626 30,428 Eden-Monaro 20,525 18,758 Fadden 37,036 33,253 Fairfax 29,824 32,098 Farrer 28,207 26,291 Fisher 34,735 32,479 Flinders 30,312 29,957 Forde 40,786 36,226 Forrest 27,961 25,020 Fowler 53,112 54,478 Franklin 23,882 22,404 Fraser 21,839 20,390 Fremantle 26,349 26,567 Gellibrand 39,643 40,630 Gilmore 29,054 26,716 Gippsland 21,292 22,089 Goldstein 25,410 23,148 Grayndler 36,827 35,729 Greenway 46,090 42,907 Grey 27,809 28,490 Griffith 29,675 28,689 Groom 32,122 31,805 Gwydir 24,904 23,064 Hasluck 38,955 37,746 Herbert 23,724 21,255 Higgins 25,213 22,734 Hindmarsh 34,719 34,284 Hinkler 27,726 28,656 Holt 41,471 39,012 Hotham 37,990 37,555 Hughes 38,239 35,591 Hume 27,898 27,031

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11759

March Qtr 2003 Medicare Benefit Income ($) Electorate Average Median Hunter 28,632 27,094 Indi 23,587 24,213 Isaacs 36,234 33,088 Jagajaga 30,980 31,459 Kalgoorlie 16,052 15,552 Kennedy 28,418 28,674 Kingsford-Smith 37,011 35,088 Kingston 32,409 29,115 Kooyong 22,671 19,969 La Trobe 35,070 34,712 Lalor 37,727 34,965 Leichhardt 29,907 29,393 Lilley 27,290 27,327 Lindsay 41,714 43,238 Lingiari 11,668 7,870 Longman 40,424 40,958 Lowe 35,992 33,495 Lyne 30,370 28,907 Lyons 27,605 25,364 Macarthur 48,582 46,693 Mackellar 26,316 23,330 Macquarie 27,503 24,317 Makin 34,931 37,595 Mallee 32,514 34,445 Maranoa 29,211 30,530 Maribyrnong 43,413 44,456 Mayo 25,756 25,210 McEwen 28,537 27,025 McMillan 33,233 30,657 McPherson 34,881 34,155 Melbourne 25,976 19,853 Melbourne Ports 29,794 24,076 Menzies 34,147 31,136 Mitchell 33,440 32,555 Moncrieff 35,095 33,954 Moore 34,016 32,855 Moreton 32,520 30,075 Murray 26,774 24,629 New England 23,293 22,876 Newcastle 32,119 27,185 North Sydney 23,420 21,114 O’Connor 26,658 27,550 Oxley 37,878 35,097 Page 27,163 26,703 Parkes 23,882 19,355 Parramatta 38,480 34,372 Paterson 34,384 30,752

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11760 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

March Qtr 2003 Medicare Benefit Income ($) Electorate Average Median Pearce 29,469 30,512 Perth 29,324 28,570 Petrie 32,365 32,685 Port Adelaide 38,574 34,771 Prospect 47,132 46,563 Rankin 41,340 39,318 Reid 52,414 52,671 Richmond 27,010 22,674 Riverina 23,330 22,004 Robertson 32,939 33,091 Ryan 23,036 22,067 Scullin 44,441 45,692 Shortland 34,099 31,316 Solomon 16,913 13,756 Stirling 34,680 33,505 Sturt 31,613 30,308 Swan 34,048 32,358 Sydney 27,671 22,808 Tangney 28,062 26,390 Throsby 52,176 50,769 Wakefield 25,163 24,791 Wannon 25,704 27,287 Warringah 32,574 28,990 Watson 46,578 45,051 Wentworth 25,587 20,788 Werriwa 56,635 57,570 Wide Bay 33,044 35,227 Wills 38,642 36,689 Australia 31,498 29,058 (2) (c) In the March quarter 2003, the average and median Medicare benefit income for recognised general practitioners, by RRMA, was as follows: March Qtr 2003 Medicare Benefit Income ($) State/Territory Region Average Median NSW Capital City 36,442 33,495 Other Metro Centre 36,155 33,990 Rural & Remote 25,588 23,782 VIC Capital City 33,159 30,653 Other Metro Centre 31,784 29,820 Rural & Remote 26,874 26,161 QLD Capital City 31,326 30,098 Other Metro Centre 32,296 29,897 Rural & Remote 31,197 30,775 SA Capital City 32,122 30,308 Rural & Remote 25,651 25,244 WA Capital City 30,057 28,830 Rural & Remote 23,726 22,828

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11761

March Qtr 2003 Medicare Benefit Income ($) State/Territory Region Average Median TAS Capital City 23,205 22,167 Rural & Remote 27,124 26,637 NT Capital City 16,913 13,756 Rural & Remote 11,397 7,870 ACT Capital City 21,954 20,484 Rural & Remote 20,831 24,310 AUST Capital City 32,931 30,537 Other Metro Centre 34,279 31,682 Rural & Remote 26,854 25,390 (3) (b) In the March quarter 2003, the average and median Medicare fee charged income for recognised general practitioners, by federal electoral division, was as follows: March Qtr 2003 Medicare Fee Charged Income ($) Electorate Average Median Adelaide 29,617 29,078 Aston 41,107 39,868 Ballarat 37,635 40,249 Banks 37,457 35,970 Barker 31,557 31,693 Barton 40,387 37,515 Bass 32,937 32,578 Batman 41,031 38,356 Bendigo 36,939 37,450 Bennelong 35,423 33,297 Berowra 34,001 30,647 Blair 40,485 35,221 Blaxland 45,111 45,161 Bonython 48,432 48,986 Boothby 33,356 30,547 Bowman 37,194 38,655 Braddon 29,435 29,519 Bradfield 31,396 28,948 Brand 33,436 32,358 Brisbane 26,524 24,714 Bruce 44,178 45,161 Burke 36,180 34,968 Calare 30,768 29,068 Calwell 42,820 49,122 Canberra 29,610 27,378 Canning 36,757 37,578 Capricornia 39,796 40,829 Casey 39,262 39,056 Charlton 41,341 42,860 Chifley 50,093 53,719 Chisholm 34,809 34,911 Cook 36,919 35,089 Corangamite 34,447 36,471

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11762 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

March Qtr 2003 Medicare Fee Charged Income ($) Electorate Average Median Corio 36,942 33,940 Cowan 37,307 39,045 Cowper 32,909 32,614 Cunningham 40,218 36,859 Curtin 25,506 21,852 Dawson 35,306 33,664 Deakin 34,611 35,120 Denison 27,412 26,781 Dickson 38,889 40,018 Dobell 39,376 41,310 Dunkley 39,625 41,541 Eden-Monaro 26,538 25,503 Fadden 40,956 41,478 Fairfax 34,570 37,405 Farrer 35,648 32,470 Fisher 39,039 38,595 Flinders 37,271 41,119 Forde 43,754 41,267 Forrest 33,984 32,667 Fowler 53,646 54,798 Franklin 27,445 27,520 Fraser 30,386 28,336 Fremantle 29,992 30,868 Gellibrand 41,846 43,294 Gilmore 33,883 32,797 Gippsland 25,175 25,947 Goldstein 31,161 30,986 Grayndler 38,282 38,095 Greenway 46,461 43,756 Grey 31,144 31,452 Griffith 35,186 35,358 Groom 38,997 38,805 Gwydir 28,888 27,232 Hasluck 43,399 44,825 Herbert 29,487 26,023 Higgins 31,355 29,976 Hindmarsh 39,052 37,668 Hinkler 36,326 37,934 Holt 45,453 45,854 Hotham 40,727 43,647 Hughes 42,129 40,751 Hume 34,554 35,069 Hunter 35,535 34,253 Indi 29,890 29,840 Isaacs 40,788 39,837 Jagajaga 35,572 34,924 Kalgoorlie 19,296 18,312

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11763

March Qtr 2003 Medicare Fee Charged Income ($) Electorate Average Median Kennedy 34,654 36,275 Kingsford-Smith 39,060 38,591 Kingston 36,656 35,909 Kooyong 27,011 24,576 La Trobe 41,176 42,402 Lalor 41,094 40,288 Leichhardt 33,646 32,987 Lilley 32,853 34,322 Lindsay 43,991 47,300 Lingiari 13,963 8,341 Longman 44,462 44,980 Lowe 36,904 35,366 Lyne 34,913 34,931 Lyons 29,750 28,880 Macarthur 51,166 48,815 Mackellar 30,537 28,734 Macquarie 31,509 27,472 Makin 40,190 42,312 Mallee 38,994 40,841 Maranoa 35,813 37,740 Maribyrnong 46,244 47,003 Mayo 29,982 29,712 McEwen 33,529 33,490 McMillan 37,669 38,425 McPherson 39,614 40,565 Melbourne 28,701 24,645 Melbourne Ports 33,024 28,415 Menzies 39,327 39,179 Mitchell 37,121 37,566 Moncrieff 42,237 42,001 Moore 38,794 37,700 Moreton 37,291 35,570 Murray 35,558 35,005 New England 28,304 29,118 Newcastle 36,965 33,259 North Sydney 29,905 30,567 O’Connor 32,936 32,616 Oxley 40,931 39,924 Page 33,533 34,685 Parkes 27,656 24,883 Parramatta 39,709 36,275 Paterson 41,782 38,360 Pearce 33,079 33,878 Perth 32,564 32,796 Petrie 37,525 39,083 Port Adelaide 40,625 39,016 Prospect 47,625 46,580

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11764 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

March Qtr 2003 Medicare Fee Charged Income ($) Electorate Average Median Rankin 43,730 42,991 Reid 52,886 52,758 Richmond 30,368 26,625 Riverina 29,444 27,682 Robertson 37,332 38,108 Ryan 28,577 27,034 Scullin 46,855 51,489 Shortland 41,370 39,812 Solomon 22,213 18,792 Stirling 37,819 37,220 Sturt 35,933 35,136 Swan 37,437 37,537 Sydney 30,586 26,842 Tangney 34,982 34,905 Throsby 53,007 50,984 Wakefield 30,878 30,372 Wannon 30,748 32,103 Warringah 38,209 36,687 Watson 47,358 46,600 Wentworth 30,371 27,880 Werriwa 57,671 61,952 Wide Bay 38,177 39,816 Wills 41,485 40,978 Australia 35,873 34,758 (3) (c) In the March quarter 2003, the average and median Medicare fee charged income for recognised general practitioners, by RRMA, was as follows: March Quarter 2003 Medicare Fee Charged Income ($) State/Territory Region Average Median NSW Capital City 39,284 37,595 Other Metro Centre 40,859 39,832 Rural & Remote 30,914 29,760 VIC Capital City 37,421 37,014 Other Metro Centre 37,674 37,528 Rural & Remote 32,740 32,263 QLD Capital City 35,905 35,748 Other Metro Centre 38,077 37,479 Rural & Remote 36,862 36,734 SA Capital City 36,208 35,496 Rural & Remote 30,435 30,477 WA Capital City 34,397 34,172 Rural & Remote 28,705 28,432 TAS Capital City 26,974 26,781 Rural & Remote 31,628 31,718 NT Capital City 22,213 18,792 Rural & Remote 13,436 8,341

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11765

March Quarter 2003 Medicare Fee Charged Income ($) State/Territory Region Average Median ACT Capital City 29,939 27,759 Rural & Remote 35,131 41,921 AUST Capital City 36,848 35,803 Other Metro Centre 39,503 38,633 Rural & Remote 32,200 31,501 Notes to the Tables These statistics relate to unreferred attendances involving general practitioners that were rendered on a ‘fee-for-service’ basis and for which benefits were processed by the Health Insurance Commission in the March quarter 2003. Excluded are details of services to public patients in hospital, to Department of Veterans’ Affairs patients and some compensation cases. In general terms, practitioners with more than 50% of Schedule fee income from unreferred attendances in the March quarter 2003, were considered to be general practitioners. ‘Recognised General Practitio- ners’ comprise fellows of the College of General Practitioners, Vocationally Registered general practitioners and general practitioner trainees. The statistics in (1) above, were compiled from Medicare data by servicing provider postcode. Where a postcode overlapped federal electorate division boundaries, the statistics were allocated to electorate using statistics from the Census of Population and Housing showing the proportion of the population of the postcode in each electoral division. The statistics in (1) will not agree with other published statistics on bulk billing for unreferred attendances by federal electoral division, since these statistics have been further restricted to unreferred attendances rendered by general practitioners. The statistics exclude unreferred attendances rendered by specialists, who have seen patients on a non-referred basis. The statistics in (2) and (3) above, were compiled by assigning all activity for a provider to his/her major practice postcode in the quarter. Where a postcode overlapped federal electorate division boundaries, the practitioner’s activity was assigned to an electorate having regard to statistics from the Census of Population and Housing showing the proportion of the population of the postcode in each electoral division. Medicare statistics for some postcodes, which have been allocated to electorates, may not appear in the above tables where the postcodes are not on the Census File. Attorney-General’s: United Nations Convention Breach (Question No. 1411) Senator Brown asked the Minister representing the Attorney-General, upon notice, on 23 April 2003: (1) In view of the fact that the United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination has recommended the word ‘nigger’ be removed from the controversial E.S. ‘Nigger’ Brown stand at the Toowoomba sports ground because the term ‘nigger’ is offensive and insulting, is Australia now in breach of the relevant United Nations convention. (2) What action is the government now taking on the matter. (3) Will the government take steps to ensure the word ‘nigger’ is removed from the stadium. Senator Ellison—The Attorney-General has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The Government is aware of the views of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimina- tion (the CERD Committee) regarding the use and maintenance of the term ‘nigger’ on the

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11766 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Toowoomba sports ground grandstand, the ‘E S ‘Nigger’ Brown Stand’. The Committee is not a court and its views are not binding. The matter before the Committee had been considered extensively by the Federal Court of Australia, which concluded that, given the context in which the word ‘nigger’ was used on the grandstand, it was not racially discriminatory. Leave to appeal that decision was denied by the High Court of Australia. The Government notes that, in announcing its decision, the CERD Committee noted with satisfaction the resolution passed by a public meeting attended by members of the local Aboriginal community and the chair of the Toowoomba sports ground trust that, in the spirit of reconciliation, racially derogatory or offensive terms will not be used or displayed in the future. The Government supports the community based resolution of this matter as appropriate in the circumstances. (2) and (3) The Government is considering the views of the Committee. However, the Government notes that the matters raised in the communication have been thoroughly considered by the Austra- lian Courts. As noted in the answer to question (1), the Federal Court of Australia has found that, given the context in which the word ‘nigger’ was used on the grandstand, it was not racially discriminatory. Depleted Uranium (Question No. 1415) Senator Allison asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 28 April 2003: (1) Given that Iraq, under Saddam Hussein, reportedly would not allow the World Health Organisation (WHO) to carry out an independent assessment of the effects of depleted uranium used in the Gulf War, has the Government urged the United States of America Administration and the WHO to do so now that the attack on Iraq is over; if not, why not. (2) Will the Government press for studies to determine if depleted uranium may be moving through the ground and could contaminate local water supplies as suggested by United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP); if not, why not. (3) Is the Government aware of the British Royal Society’s report, The health hazards of depleted uranium munitions, 2002, which indicates that localised areas of depleted uranium contamination pose a risk, particularly to young children, and should be cleared up as a priority. (4) Will the Government press for environment sampling of affected areas in Iraq and any necessary clean-up; if not, why not. (5) Is the Government aware that UNEP has indicated that an immediate study in Iraq would give a much better understanding of how depleted uranium behaves in the environment than studies done some years after depleted uranium was used in Yugoslavia and the Gulf. (6) Is the Government aware of research published in Military Medicine, vol. 167, p. 120, which indicates that: (a) the radiological effects of depleted uranium are not clear; (b) the risk from low- dose radiation cannot necessarily be extrapolated from tests using higher doses; (c) the relationship between dose and effect is not linear, meaning that low radiation may be having subtle effects that go unnoticed because cells are not dying; (d) radiation from depleted uranium damages chromosomes within cultured cells; (e) depleted uranium radiation increases gene activity in cultured cells at doses of depleted uranium not known to cause chemical toxicity; and (f) the possible consequences are made all the more uncertain because no-one knows if genes switched on by depleted uranium radiation enhance the damage caused genes switched on by depleted uranium’s toxic effects, or vice versa. (7) Is the Government aware of research at the Bremen Institute for Prevention Research, Social Medicine and Epidemiology in Germany, which published results from tests in which blood samples from 16 soldiers who inhaled depleted uranium particles in battle showed that broken strands of DNA chromosomes in veterans occurred at five times the rate of the control group

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11767

(Radiation Protection Dosimetry, vol. 103, p. 211) and that increased chromosomal aberrations are associated with an increased incidence of cancers. (8) Have Australian troops exposed to depleted uranium been, or will they be, tested for chromosomal aberration on their return from Iraq; if not, why not. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) No. The decision to conduct assessments of the effects of depleted uranium (DU) used in the Gulf War is a matter for the United States Government and the World Health Organisation, in consultation with the Iraqi Interim Authority and a future Iraqi Government. (2) No. If UNEP wants such an enquiry I would expect it would take this up with the Iraqi Interim Authority and a future Iraqi Government. (3) Yes. The Government is aware of the British Royal Society’s report. Defence is giving consideration to a re-assessment of the medical literature concerning DU exposure in light of this report and will make adjustments to Australian Defence Force (ADF) health advice and screening procedures as necessary. (4) Refer to part (2). (5) Refer to part (2). (6) The Government is aware of research published in Military Medicine Vol 167 p120. (7) The Government is aware of the research referred to in this part of the question. (8) In August 2001, a report was prepared by the Expert Committee to Examine Balkan Veteran Exposure to Depleted Uranium on behalf of the then Minister of Veterans’ Affairs titled Review of Scientific Literature on the Health Effects of Exposure to Depleted Uranium. The report concluded that on the basis of sound medical-scientific evidence and under realistic assumptions of exposure and dose, DU could not produce any health effects in Australian troops serving with NATO forces in the Balkan conflict. The Defence Health Service (DHS) subsequently revised its health bulletin regarding DU health screening policy in December 2001. On the basis of the expert committee’s independent review of relevant evidence on this subject, the Defence Health Service agreed that DU posed no adverse risk of health effects for ADF personnel performing duties that would potentially lead to DU exposure, and determined that the ADF policy no longer required ADF personnel to be health screened for DU exposure. However, the DHS is aware of new scientific research such as that referred to in this question. DHS is conducting a re-assessment of the medical literature concerning DU exposure and will make any adjustments to ADF health advice and screening procedures as might be necessary. Defence: Portsea Site (Question No. 1416) Senator Allison asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 29 April 2003: (1) Given that the media release, dated 9 April 2003, by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Defence refers to 'giving the Victorian Government one month to take up the offer of a priority sale of the remaining 90 hectares' and yet an advertisement in the Financial Review of 22 April 2003 inviting expressions of interest in the land refers to 85 hectares: (a) What is the correct size of the land for sale; and (b) What is the reason for the discrepancy. (2) Is it still the case, as the Government has publicly indicated, that residential development will not be permitted on this 85 hectares; if so: (a) Why was this not indicated in the advertisement; (b) would a residential prohibition also rule out a hotel or other tourist accommodation being

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11768 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

construction on the site; and (c) what environmental and/or heritage restrictions would apply to tourist accommodation. (3) Does the Government intend selling the land freehold absolutely. (4) Is the Government prepared to alienate the land so that is comes under the jurisdiction of the Victorian State Government’s planning provisions or the Mornington Peninsula Planning Scheme. (5) Would proposed developments be subject to: (a) the Victorian State Government’s planning scheme zoning controls; (b) the controls relating to native vegetation; (c) the requirements of the Flora and Fauna Guarantee Act 1988 (Vic.); (d) the requirements of the Heritage Act 1995 (Vic.); (e) the requirements of the Archaeological and Aboriginal Preservation Act 1972 (Vic.); and (f) the requirements of the Environment Protection Act 1970 (Vic.). (6) Would proposed developments be subject to the Victorian State Government’s height limits, visual amenity rules and controls to protect the adjacent national park. (7) Will the Government consider long-term lease arrangements for the site; if so: (a) under what conditions; (b) is it the case that the Government would do so to allow developers to evade Victorian State Government planning controls; and (c) under lease arrangements, from which ’relevant authorities’ would development approvals need to be sought. (8) With regard to the 20 hectare site proposed to be handed over to the Mornington Peninsula Shire Council: (a) will the Minister adopt the Victorian State Government’s suggestion that it be reserved as Crown land for public purposes under the Crown Land Reserves Act 1978 (Vic.) and for the council to be appointed as the Committee of Management; (b) can details be provided of discussions and correspondence between the Commonwealth and the Mornington Peninsula Shire with regard to this land; (c) was this land granted to the Mornington Peninsula Shire at its request; (d) has the Mornington Peninsula Shire developed a management plan for the site; if not, when will it do so and by what process; (e) will the Commonwealth provide the Mornington Peninsula Shire with funds to manage the land; if so, on what conditions; and (f) is the Minister satisfied that the Mornington Peninsula Shire will be able to manage this nationally-significant site; if so, on what basis. (9) Given that the Victorian State Government claims that the proposed boundary for this site is inconsistent with the master plan findings and ’fails to protect the natural and historic values of the site’, will the Government agree to the following recommendations by the Victorian Government: (a) the inclusion of the Northern Conservation Precinct (#2) and the Jarman precinct (#3) with the Southern Conservation Precinct as part of this transfer; (b) [If the Commonwealth is determined to sell the Norris Barracks,] the boundaries of the Barracks being definded as they are shown for Precinct #4 in the Master Plan in Figure 7.1 of the Parsons Brinkerhoff report; (c) access to the Norris Barracks via Franklands Road with Defence Road being wholly incorporated in the National Park with the existing park Visitor Centre remaining the principal entry point to the park; and (d) excision of the beach and foreshore from the site to provide sufficient area for pedestrian access along the foreshore into the National park from Portsea. (10) Would a commercial heliport be considered an ’appropriate development’ for the site. (11) Has the Government had any discussions or correspondence with Mornington Peninsula Shire or other parties concerning the development of a heliport on the site; if so, can details be provided. (12) What were the conditions under which Mr Lindsay Fox was granted permission to use the former Norris Barracks site as a heliport over the 2002-03 summer period. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) (a) The area of land for sale is 91.8 hectares.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11769

(b) The total area of the Defence land at Portsea is approximately 311 hectares. 205 hectares will be transferred to the Victorian State Government. As at 9 April 2003, a further 10 to 20 hectares was identified for transfer to the Mornington Peninsula Shire Council. Therefore, the remaining area was between 86 and 96 hectares. The figure of 85 hectares (subject to survey) was used in the Expression of Interest, as the actual area of land to be transferred to the Council had not been determined. The area of land identified for transfer to the Mornington Peninsula Shire Council has now been finalised and is 17.6 hectares. Also, the area of land for sale has now been surveyed. (2) The Government will stand by its commitment to restrict subdivision for new residential development. (a) The restrictions on residential subdivision are fully addressed in the Expression of Interest documentation. (b) No. (c) The following heritage conditions apply: (i) the sale arrangements will require future development to be in accordance with the Conservation Management Plan or any revised plan endorsed by Heritage Victoria; and (ii) a condition will be placed over the purchaser to not object to future proposed heritage listings over the Portsea site by Heritage Victoria. (3) Yes. (4), (5) and (6) On divestment out of Commonwealth ownership the land will be subject to Victorian State Government legislation and the Mornington Peninsula Council Planning Scheme. (7) (a) (b) and (c) No. (8) (a) No. (b) The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Defence has sent a number of letters to the Mornington Peninsula Shire Council primarily relating to the boundary of the land to be transferred. (c) No. (d) This is a matter for the Mornington Peninsula Shire Council. (e) No. (f) Yes, as one of the main responsibilities of the Mornington Peninsula Shire Council is to manage public use area in the Mornington Peninsula area. (9) (a) (b) (c) and (d) No. (10) Development options for the site will be dealt with by the Victorian Government as part of a Planning Scheme Amendment process following divestment of the property out of Commonwealth ownership. (11) No. (12) Following a request from Mr Fox to land his helicopter on the Norris Barracks site, the department agreed to allow one further entity, that is, Mr Fox, to use the Commonwealth land. The issue was carefully assessed and it was agreed to allow use of a landing site for restricted use and for a short time period only. The license of three months duration terminated 15 March 2003. The License was between the Commonwealth and Mr Fox and related to the terms and conditions under which he could use the land for helicopter landings and take-offs. It was expressly for non-commercial purposes and for one specific helicopter only. The license fee was $2,000 per annum (exclusive of GST). The security deposit was $10,000. LINFOX Global Insurance of $20,000,000 provided insurance. LINFOX paid the legal costs to create the license.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11770 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Health: Bulk-Billing (Question No. 1421) Senator O’Brien asked the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 1 May 2003: For the financial quarters ending: (a) 31 March 2001; (b) 31 March 2002; and (c) 31 March 2003, what is: (i) the percentage of total unreferred attendances bulk billed, and (ii) the average patient contribution per service (patient billed services only), for total unreferred attendances in the following Statistical Local Areas: Latrobe City Council, Bass Coast Shire Council, South Gippsland Shire Council, Baw Baw Shire Council, and Cardinia Shire Council. Senator Patterson—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (i) Details of the percentage of unreferred attendances bulk billed in the nominated Statistical Local Areas (SLAs) and in the March quarters 2001, 2002 and 2003, are as follows: Percentage of Un-referred Attendances Bulk Billed March Quarter Statistical Local Area 2001 2002 2003 Latrobe City Council 75.7 77.4 77.9 Bass Coast Shire Council 22.7 21.9 41.8 South Gippsland Shire Council 36.5 41.3 43.1 Baw Baw Shire Council 41.6 41.8 45.3 Cardinia Shire Council 80.6 74.9 66.9

(ii) Details of the average patient contribution per service (patient billed services only), in the nominated Statistical Local Areas and in the March quarters 2001, 2002 and 2003, are as follows: Average Patient Contribution Per Service March Quarter Statistical Local Area 2001 2002 2003 Latrobe City Council $8.98 $10.18 $11.44 Bass Coast Shire Council $7.36 $8.17 $8.89 South Gippsland Shire Council $7.82 $7.34 $9.28 Baw Baw Shire Council $7.54 $7.88 $9.43 Cardinia Shire Council $11.55 $11.89 $13.15

The above statistics only relate to unreferred attendances rendered on a ‘fee-for-service’ basis for which Medicare benefits were processed by the Health Insurance Commission in the respective quarters. Ex- cluded are details of services to public patients in hospital, to Department of Veterans’ Affairs patients and some compensation cases. The statistics were compiled from Medicare data by servicing provider postcode. Where a postcode overlapped statistical local areas (SLA) boundaries, the statistics were allocated to electorate using statistics from the Census of Population and Housing showing the proportion of the population of each postcode in each SLA. Medicare statistics for some postcodes are not on the Census file and have not been included in the table. The statistics on the average patient contribution per service only had regard to non-hospital services. It is not possible to compute accurate patient contribution per service statistics for in-patient services. The Commonwealth does not know which patients were privately insured, nor does the Commonwealth

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11771 have statistics on health fund rebates by broad type of service group on a consistent basis with other Medicare statistics. Health: More Allied Health Services Program (Question No. 1424) Senator Allison asked the Minister for Health and Ageing, upon notice, on 5 May 2003: (1) With reference to part (7), question on notice no. 1240 from Senator Allison, which asked, ‘(7) For each of the following financial years: 2000-01 and 2001-02, and for the 2002-03 financial year to date, what sums of Commonwealth money have been allocated under the More Allied Health Services (MAHS) program and to which divisions’: Can a table be provided that identifies the amount paid to each division by the year in which is was paid. (2) (a) For each of the divisions identified as receiving funding for MAHS, for each year, can a breakdown be provided of the funding, in terms of the number of full-time equivalent positions funded; and (b) can a breakdown of these full-time equivalent numbers for each division into practice nurses and allied health practitioners be provided, indicating the professions of these allied health workers. (3) (a) What is the evidence of the community consultation, contained in each successful funding proposal for MAHS; and (b) what criteria were used by the Department in assessing these consultative mechanisms. (4) (a) What evidence was required for a needs assessment for successful MAHS divisions; and (b) what criteria did the Department use to assess the accuracy and validity of the needs assessment. Senator Patterson—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The following table provides a breakdown of the amount of funding paid to each MAHS-eligible Division in the financial years 2000-01, 2001-02 and 2002-03 (to date): Name of MAHS –eligible Division Funding allocated 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 (as at 30 April ) Hunter Rural Division of General Practice Ltd $181,121 $207,822 $212,602 The Shoalhaven Division of General Practice Inc $129,283 $144,239 $147,556 The South East NSW Division of General Practice Ltd $233,689 $272,827 $279,102 Port Macquarie Division of General Practice Ltd $112,742 $123,330 $126,166 Mid North Coast (NSW) Division of General Practice Ltd $185,587 $214,617 $219,553 Northern Rivers Division of General Practice (NSW) Ltd $176,726 $203,427 $208,106 Tweed Valley Division of General Practice $104,137 $112,957 $115,555 The New England Division of General Practice Ltd $146,147 $164,192 $167,969 Wagga Wagga Division of General Practice Inc $149,832 $168,639 $172,518 NSW Central West Division of General Practice Ltd $212,067 $246,342 $252,008 Dubbo/Plains Division of General Practice Ltd $157,568 $177,698 $181,785 Barwon Division of General Practice Inc $146,690 $164,234 $168,012 Murrumbidgee Division of General Practice Ltd $143,514 $160,869 $164,569 NSW Outback Division of General Practice Ltd $138,251 $151,940 $155,435 Southern Highlands Division of General Practice Inc $117,012 $129,098 $132,068 North West Slopes (NSW) Division of General Practice $102,690 $110,109 $112,641 Ltd Barrier Division of General Practice Ltd $101,134 $108,272 $110,762 General Practitioners Association of Geelong Ltd $116,602 $128,364 $131,316

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11772 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Name of MAHS –eligible Division Funding allocated 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 (as at 30 April ) Central Highlands Division of General Practice $162,037 $185,101 $189,358 North-East Victorian Division of General Practice Pty Ltd $188,381 $217,411 $222.412 South Gippsland Division of General Practice $137,049 $153,669 $157,203 Central-West Gippsland Division of General Practice Inc $152,448 $173,385 $177,373 Otway Division of General Practice $182,873 $210,395 $215,234 Ballarat & District Division of General Practice Inc $104,327 $112,640 $115,230 The Bendigo and District Division of General Practice $94,721 $100,534 $102,846 Goulburn Valley GPs - A Division of General Practice Ltd $142,069 $159,834 $163,510 East Gippsland Division of General Practice $147,337 $166,231 $170,054 The Border GP Division Pty Ltd $105,645 $113,921 $116,541 West Vic Division of General Practice Inc $174,138 $199,064 $203,643 Murray-Plains Division of General Practice $143,760 $161,443 $165,157 Mallee Division of General Practice $161,029 $182,608 $186,808 Ipswich and West Moreton Division of General Practice $115,988 $127,394 $130,324 Toowoomba and District Division of General Practice Ltd $124,707 $138,297 $141,477 Central Qld Rural Division of General Practice Assn Inc $182,396 $208,222 $213,011 Mackay Division of General Practice Ltd $132,426 $146,813 $150,190 The Cairns Division of General Practice Ltd $91,435 $96,590 $98,811 Southern Qld Rural Division of General Practice Assn Inc $339,219 $334,485 $342,178 Central West Rural Division of General Practice Assn Inc $150,822 $165,077 $168,874 Northern Qld Rural Division of General Practice Assn Inc $271,201 $313,211 $320,415 Far North Qld Rural Division of General Practice Assn $240,120 $278,710 $285,121 Inc Sunshine Coast Division of General Practice Assn Ltd $202,835 $244,623 $250,249 Capricornia Division of General Practice Ltd $108,042 $116,410 $119,088 Bundaberg and District Division of General Practice $100,493 $168,668 $172,547 Southern Division of General Practice Inc $114,333 $125,111 $127,989 The Barossa Division of General Practice Inc $112,616 $123,293 $126,128 Yorke Peninsula Division of General Practice Inc $112,231 $122,068 $124,876 Mid North Rural SA Division of General Practice Inc $131,340 $145,734 $149,086 Riverland Division of General Practice Inc $118,477 $130,504 $133,505 South East of South Australia Division of General Prac- $139,763 $156,294 $159,889 tice Inc Eyre Peninsula Division of General Practice $137,100 $150,913 $154,384 Flinders and Far North Division of General Practice Inc $144,964 $158,990 $162,647 Murray Mallee Division of General Practice Inc $108,636 $117,795 $120,504 Adelaide Hills Division of General Practice Inc $112,631 $123,562 $126,404 Peel/South West Division of General Practice Ltd $192,914 $222,508 $227,625 Great Southern Division of General Practice Ltd $164,094 $185,361 $189,624 Kimberley Division of General Practice $183,344 $203,898 $208,588 Eastern Goldfields Medical Division of General Practice $181,994 $207,561 $212,334 Ltd Mid West Division of General Practice Inc $186,578 $210,059 $214,891 Greater Bunbury Division of General Practice Inc $111,936 $122,770 $125,594 Pilbara Division of General Practice $163,943 $183,935 $188,166

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11773

Name of MAHS –eligible Division Funding allocated 2000-01 2001-02 2002-03 (as at 30 April ) Central Wheatbelt Division of General Practice $145,500 $162,630 $166,370 Division of General Practice Northern Tasmania Inc $113,273 $123,495 $126,335 Tasmania-Southern Region Division of General Practice $135,299 $150,982 $154,454 Inc North West Tasmania Division of General Practice Inc $174,200 $200,268 $204,874 Top End Division of General Practice $207,761 $236,318 $241,753 Central Australian Division of General Practice Inc $184,092 $208,484 $213,279 (2) (a) and (b) Information on the breakdown of the funding for 2000-01, for each of the Divisions identified as receiving MAHS funding, in terms of the number of full-time equivalent positions funded, and the type of allied health professional, was not collected. In 2000-01, MAHS data was collected through a biannual survey of Divisions conducted by the Department, which provided an estimate of the number of allied health professionals employed by Divisions at a particular point in time, and of planned services that were yet to be implemented In 2001-02, the Department collected MAHS data from Divisions via an Annual Survey of Divisions undertaken by the Primary Health Care Research and Information Service (PHCRIS). Data in the Annual Survey of Divisions for 2001-02 provides information on the total number of full time equivalent (FTE) allied health professionals employed by each Division, in terms of the type of allied health professional, as per the following table: Name of MAHS-eligible Division FTE Allied health funded in 2001-02 Hunter Rural Division of General Practice Ltd 0.4 Registered Nurse – diabetes educator 0.1 Physiotherapist 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor 1.0 Occupational Therapist The Shoalhaven Division of General Practice 1.3 Dietitian Inc ** Podiatrist The South East NSW Division of General Prac- 4.6 Registered Nurses tice Ltd 0.4 Physiotherapists 0.25 Podiatrists 2.0 Psychologists/Counsellors 0.4 Occupational therapists Port Macquarie Division of General Practice Registered Nurse Ltd Psychologist/Counsellor Mid North Coast (NSW) Division of General 3.7 Psychologist/Counsellor Practice Ltd 0.2 Social Worker 0.1 Speech Pathologist Northern Rivers Division of General Practice 2.2 Registered Nurse (NSW) Ltd 0.5 Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator 0.4 Dietitian 0.2 Physiotherapist Social Worker 0.04 Occupational Therapist 0.5 Other Tweed Valley Division of General Practice 1.8 Psychologist/Counsellor The New England Division of General Practice 0.2 Registered Nurse Ltd 0.6 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11774 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Name of MAHS-eligible Division FTE Allied health funded in 2001-02 0.7 Dietitian Physiotherapist Podiatrist 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor Wagga Wagga Division of General Practice Inc 0.3 Dietitian 0.25 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.65 Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator 0.05 Podiatrist 1.5 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.15 Occupational Therapist NSW Central West Division of General Prac- 0.7 Dietitian tice Ltd 0.7 Physiotherapist 0.45 Podiatrist 0.86 Psychologist/Counsellor Dubbo/Plains Division of General Practice Ltd 0.8 Registered Nurse 1.5 Dietitian Psychologist/Counsellor 2.5 Speech Pathologist 2.0 Occupational Therapist Barwon Division of General Practice Inc Registered Nurse 0.05 Dietitian ** Physiotherapist Podiatrist 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor Murrumbidgee Division of General Practice Registered Nurse Ltd 0.2 Dietitian Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.05 Podiatrist 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor NSW Outback Division of General Practice Ltd **Registered Nurse ** Podiatrist Southern Highlands Division of General Prac- Registered Nurse tice Inc 1.0 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator North West Slopes (NSW) Division of General 0.44 Registered Nurse Practice Ltd 0.07 Dietitian Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.34 Physiotherapist 0.33 Psychologist/Counsellor Barrier Division of General Practice Ltd 0.5 Podiatrist General Practitioners Association of Geelong 2.3 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator Ltd 1.7 Podiatrist 0.1 Psychologist/Counsellor Central Highlands Division of General Practice 1.1 Physiotherapist 0.56 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.4 Social Worker North-East Victorian Division of General Prac- 0.36 Registered Nurse tice Pty Ltd 0.15 Dietitian 1.05 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.12 Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11775

Name of MAHS-eligible Division FTE Allied health funded in 2001-02 South Gippsland Division of General Practice 2.5 Psychologist/Counsellor Central-West Gippsland Division of General Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator Practice Inc Podiatrist 2.7 Psychologist/Counsellor Otway Division of General Practice Dietitian 0.45 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.35 Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator 0.15 Physiotherapist 0.12 podiatrist 0.5 Psychologist/Counsellor Aboriginal Health Worker 0.1 Other Ballarat & District Division of General Practice 0.85 Psychologist/Counsellor Inc The Bendigo and District Division of General Dietitian Practice 0.16 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator Physiotherapist Psychologist/Counsellor 0.2 Occupational Therapist Goulburn Valley GPs - A Division of General Registered Nurse Practice Ltd 0.35 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.2 Social Worker East Gippsland Division of General Practice 2.0 Psychologist/Counsellor The Border GP Division Pty Ltd 0.5 Dietitian Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator Podiatrist 0.4 Psychologist/Counsellor West Vic Division of General Practice Inc Psychologist/Counsellor 1.0 Social Worker Murray-Plains Division of General Practice 0.6 Dietitian Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator 0.6 Physiotherapist Podiatrist Psychologist/Counsellor Aboriginal Health Worker 0.2 Speech Pathologist Mallee Division of General Practice 0.2 Dietitian 0.6 Physiotherapist 0.6 Podiatrist 1.8 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.3 Audiologist 0.7 Speech Pathologist Ipswich and West Moreton Division of General Registered Nurse Practice Dietitian 1.0 Social Worker Toowoomba and District Division of General Dietitian Practice Ltd Podiatrist 0.2 Psychologist/Counsellor

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11776 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Name of MAHS-eligible Division FTE Allied health funded in 2001-02 Central Qld Rural Division of General Practice 0.8 Dietitian Assn Inc 0.8 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator Psychologist/Counsellor ** Social Worker Mackay Division of General Practice Ltd Dietitian 1.4 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.6 Occupational Therapist The Cairns Division of General Practice Ltd 0.5 Registered Nurse 0.2 Dietitian 0.2 Physiotherapist 0.1 Podiatrist Southern Qld Rural Division of General Prac- 0.4 Registered Nurse tice Assn Inc 1.54 Dietitian 0.35 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.56 Physiotherapist 0.84 Podiatrist 0.07 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.23 Speech Pathology 0.49 Occupational Therapy Central West Rural Division of General Prac- Registered Nurse tice Assn Inc 0.2 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor ** Occupational Therapist Northern Qld Rural Division of General Prac- 2.2 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator tice Assn Inc Psychologist/Counsellor 1.0 Aboriginal Health Worker Far North Qld Rural Division of General Prac- 0.2 Registered Nurse tice Assn Inc 0.95 Dietitian 0.5 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.17 Physiotherapist Podiatrist Psychologist/Counsellor Occupational Therapist 0.03 Speech Pathologist Sunshine Coast Division of General Practice Registered Nurse Assn Ltd Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 1.6 Psychologist Counsellor 1.4 Social Worker Capricornia Division of General Practice Ltd Dietitian Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.8 Physiotherapist 0.3 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.15 Occupational Therapist Bundaberg and District Division of General Dietitian Practice 0.4 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.25 Podiatrist 0.1 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.5 Social Worker

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11777

Name of MAHS-eligible Division FTE Allied health funded in 2001-02 Southern Division of General Practice Inc 0.5 Registered Nurse 0.1 Dietitian 0.7 Psychologist/Counsellor 1.0 Social Worker The Barossa Division of General Practice Inc 1.3 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.4 Social Worker Yorke Peninsula Division of General Practice 3.5 Registered Nurses Inc 0.4 Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator Mid North Rural SA Division of General Prac- 1.2 Registered Nurse tice Inc Riverland Division of General Practice Inc 2.0 Psychologist/Counsellor South East of South Australia Division of Gen- 2.0 Psychologist/Counsellor eral Practice Inc 0.1 Podiatrist Eyre Peninsula Division of General Practice 2.0 Psychologist/Counsellor Flinders and Far North Division of General 1.7 Registered Nurse Practice Inc Murray Mallee Division of General Practice 1.8 Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator Inc Adelaide Hills Division of General Practice Inc 0.8 Registered Nurse 0.5 Psychologist/Counsellor Peel/South West Division of General Practice 0.5 Registered Nurse – Asthma Educator Ltd 3.4 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.8 Aboriginal Health Worker Great Southern Division of General Practice 1.08 Dietitian Ltd 2.0 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator Kimberley Division of General Practice 1.0 Dietitian 0.4 Podiatrist Eastern Goldfields Medical Division of Gen- 1.0 Dietitian eral Practice Ltd 1.0 Physiotherapist 0.8 Podiatrist 0.6 Psychologist/Counsellor Mid West Division of General Practice Inc 1.9 Registered Nurse 0.6 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.4 Social Worker Greater Bunbury Division of General Practice 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor Inc 1.0 Social Worker Pilbara Division of General Practice 0.2 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 0.36 Podiatrist 0.27 Audiologist Central Wheatbelt Division of General Practice 2.5 Psychologist/Counsellor Tasmania-Southern Region Division of General 4.0 Dietitian Practice Inc 0.8 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor Division of General Practice Northern Tasma- 0.5 Registered Nurse – Diabetes Educator nia Inc 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor 0.5 Occupational Therapist

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11778 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Name of MAHS-eligible Division FTE Allied health funded in 2001-02 North West Tasmania Division of General Prac- 1.0 Registered Nurse –Diabetes Educator tice Inc 0.5 Podiatrist 1.0 Psychologist/Counsellor Top End Division of General Practice ** Physiotherapist 7.0 Aboriginal Health Workers Central Australian Division of General Practice ** Physiotherapist Inc ** Podiatrist ** Psychologist/Counsellor ** Audiologist ** Occupational Therapist ** Divisions did not supply PHCRIS with an FTE Information on the breakdown of the funding for 2001-02, for each of the Divisions identified as receiving MAHS funding, in terms of the number of full-time equivalent positions funded, was not collected. Information on the breakdown of the funding for 2002-03, for each of the Divisions identified as receiving MAHS funding, in terms of the number of full-time equivalent positions funded, and the type of allied health professional, will be provided to the Department as part of Divisions’ Twelve-Monthly Reports, due 31 August 2003. (3) (a) All MAHS-eligible Divisions were required to document evidence of community consultation. Evidence provided by Divisions varied but included items such as records of meetings, community submissions and survey responses. (b) In approving the provision of MAHS funding to a Division, the State and Territory offices of the Department were required to assess the consultative mechanisms of the original proposals for funding against the following requirement: • proposals are to contain documented evidence of consultation with stakeholders and their support for the proposal. If not all stakeholders support the proposal there should be justification for why the proposed approach will be taken. (4) (a) As evidence for a needs assessment, Divisions were required to demonstrate they had undertaken appropriate planning processes in identifying the demonstrated needs for the allied health services proposed for each Division. Allied health service needs were to be identified through consultation with local stakeholders, and Divisions were required to document these consultations. Divisions were required to include in their needs assessments a discussion of the reasons for the selection of particular allied health services to be provided, based on consideration of issues such as: • the range of stakeholder support for the proposed activities; and • prioritisation of one identified need over the another, which may have been based on practical considerations, such as the ease of recruitment of one service over another. (b) The criteria used by the Department to assess the accuracy and validity of the needs assessments included: • inclusion of key demographic and epidemiological data; • documented evidence that stakeholder groups had been consulted; • documented evidence that Divisions had taken into account existing State/ Commonwealth health initiatives; • documented evidence that the target groups were located within eligible towns;

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11779

• documented evidence of the Divisions’ processes for prioritising allied health service needs; and • documented support from stakeholders for the proposed activity. Defence: East Sale Air Force Base (Question No. 1430) Senator Allison asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 6 May 2003: Can an assurance be given that the Royal Australian Airforce base at East Sale, Victoria will not be closed down in the foreseeable future; if not, what is the Government’s proposal with regard to the base; if so, what analysis has been made of the economic impact on the region of closure of the base. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: It is appropriate that the Department of Defence ensure that it is using the resources allocated to it as efficiently as possible to support Australian Defence Force capability. In this context, Defence is reviewing the capability impact of the current estate and its associated force disposition (location). East Sale and other bases are part of that review. Any decision to close a base or bases will take into account the economic impact on the region of closure of the base. Defence: Asset Sales (Question No. 1433) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 7 May 2003: (1) In relation to the answer to part 6 of question on notice no. 1185, which indicated the rent paid in the initial year of the leases for four Defence properties, that were sold and leased back in the 2000-01 and 2001-02 financial years: Is the rent paid in the first year indexed in the second and subsequent years of the lease (as per the arrangement that applies in the lease for the Defence National Stores and Distribution Centre, Moorebank site that was sold and leased back in March 2003); if so, what level of annual indexation applies under each of the leases referred to in the answer to part 6. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The rent indexation arrangements for the four properties are as follows: Address Indexation arrangement 270 Pitt St, Sydney New South Wales Rent increases by 3% on 1 July 2002 and every second anniversary of that date thereafter during the term. Rent is reviewed in relation to market value on 1 July 2003 and every second anniversary of that date thereafter during the term.

Campbell Park, Australian Capital Terri- Rent increases by 3% annually during the term of the tory lease.

Ground-Level 9, 661 Bourke St Mel- Rent increased 3% on 1 July 2002 and every second bourne, Victoria anniversary of that date thereafter during the term of the lease. Rent is reviewed in relation to market value on 1 July 2003 and every second anniversary of that date thereafter during the term.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11780 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Address Indexation arrangement 8 Station St Wollongong, New South Rent is reviewed every fifth anniversary of the com- Wales mencement date, and increases by 3% annually when there is no market value review in that year.

Defence: National Storage and Distribution Centre (Question No. 1435) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 7 May 2003: (1) Why is it that Defence was able to provide comprehensive information on sales and sale prices in the answer to question no. W10, taken on notice during the estimates hearings of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Legislation Committee in February 2002, yet refused to provide the sale price for the Defence National Storage and Distribution Centre (NSDC) at Moorebank on the basis that it was ‘commercial-in-confidence’ (answer to part 4 of question on notice no. 1190). (2) On what basis is the sale price of the NSDC at Moorebank considered ‘commercial-in-confidence’ even after the sale had occurred. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) Defence practice is that information on the sale of individual properties remains commercial-in- confidence unless disclosed by the purchaser, until such time as the new owner has registered the sale with the appropriate Titles office. Once this has occurred, the purchaser becomes the legal owner and the purchase price is a matter of public record. (2) The sale of the Defence National Storage and Distribution Centre was settled on 26 March 2003. The new title was registered on 22 April 2003 and, therefore, the information was considered commercial-in-confidence at the time of replying to Senate Question on Notice No 1190. Defence: Campbell Park Offices (Question No. 1436) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 7 May 2003: In relation to the sale and leaseback of the Campbell Park Offices: (1) When was the decision taken to sell and lease back Campbell Park Offices, Australian Capital Territory. (2) When was the property sold. (3) Which organisation purchased the property. (4) What was the sale price for the property. (5) (a) What rent did Defence pay for Campbell Park Offices in the first year of the lease; and (b) what rent will be paid in the second and subsequent years of the lease. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) Government decided to sell Campbell Park Offices in the context of the 2001-02 Budget. (2) Title to the property was transferred to the new owner in June 2002. (3) GE Capital (Beldon) Pty Ltd purchased the property. (4) $98,700,000 inclusive of GST. (5) (a) and (b) Rent in the first year was $7,917,490 with a three percent escalator per annum.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11781

Defence: Brighton Army Barracks (Question No. 1437) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 7 May 2003: In relation to the sale of the former Brighton Army Barracks in Tasmania: (1) When was the decision taken to sell the Brighton Army Barracks. (2) When was the property sold. (3) Which organisation purchased the property. (4) What was the sale price for the property. (5) (a) What is the total value of all building works that have been carried out at the Brighton Army Barracks site over the past 5 financial years; and (b) can a full breakdown of these works be provided. (6) Has the Tasmanian State Valuer-General made any valuation on the property at any time in the past 5 financial years; if so: (a) when was the valuation undertaken; and (b) what was the estimated value (for each valuation if more than one valuation occured). (7) What is the estimated value of rehabilitation works that will have to be undertaken at the property. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) Mid 1999. (2) The property settled on 28 February 2003. (3) Touma International Pty Ltd. (4) $150,000 inclusive of GST. (5) (a) $603,924. (b) During 1997/98, Buildings 1, 434, 437, 440, 511, 512, 513, 514 and 442 were refurbished at a cost of $152,043. A concrete apron was added to Building 501 at a cost of $6,518. General repairs and maintenance and urgent maintenance costs were $73,830. During 1998/99 no building work was undertaken. During 1999/2000 various accommodation works were undertaken to provide accommodation for Kosovar displaced persons. These works totaled $371,533. During 2000/2001 no building work was undertaken. During 2001/2002 no building work was undertaken. (6) Yes. (a) 1 August 1999. (b) Capital value of $2.4m and land value at $370,000. The capital value represents the value of the buildings based on their Defence use. The valuation is not a market valuation of the property. (7) The contamination report prepared by IT Environmental (Defence’s Consultant) estimates that the total re-mediation of soil contamination and removal of asbestos is between $250,000 to $300,000. Defence Materiel Organisation: Professional Service Providers (Question No. 1443) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 9 May 2003: With reference to the answer to question on notice no. 1186, which indicated that $50.3 million was spent on ‘legal/health expenses’ under the ‘consultants and professional service’ line item in the 2001- 02 financial year: (1) Can a full breakdown be provided of the $50.3 million spent on ‘legal/health expenses’ in the 2001-02 financial year. (2) How much was spent on ‘legal/health expenses’ in each financial year since 1996-97.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11782 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(3) Can a full breakdown be provided of expenditure on ‘legal/health expenses’ for each financial year since 1996-97. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) (2) and (3) A full breakdown of ‘legal/health expenses’ for 1999-2000, 2000-01 and 2001-02 is as follows: ‘LEGAL/HEALTH EXPENSES’ (UNDER 1999-2000 2000-01 2001-02 CONSULTANTS AND PROFESSIONAL SERVICES LINE ITEM) $m $m $m General service and medical examinations provided by out- 2.032 2.160 2.353 side contractors DFDA Legal Expenses / Disbursements 0.215 0.409 Reserve legal officers’ fees 4.467 1.625 Commonwealth disbursements (legal) 2.311 4.084 Professional fees tied to the Australian Government Solici- 5.230 3.313 1.786 tor (legal) Professional fees Defence legal panel 2.998 8.082 11.798 Compensation – statutory - non-workers (legal) 0.220 0.002 Common law asbestos related 2.810 2.817 9.607 Common law VOYAGER/MELBOURNE 1.100 1.615 5.634 Common law property damage 0.019 0.404 0.261 Common law other 17.249 13.787 6.795 Legal expenses other 8.777 5.231 5.967 40.215 44.622 50.321 Information from previous years is not readily available from Defence’s corporate financial management information systems. Defence Materiel Organisation: Professional Service Providers (Question No. 1444) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 9 May 2003 - With reference to the answer to question on notice no. 1186: (1) With reference to the breakdown provided of the ‘consultants and professional services’ line item for the 2001-02 financial year: Can the same breakdown be provided for all previous financial years for which the information is available. (2) With reference to the breakdown provided of all professional service provider contracts let by Defence groups in 2001-02: Can the same breakdown be provided for all previous financial years for which the information is available. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) and (2) A breakdown of the ‘consultants and professional services’ line item for 1999-2000 and 2000-01 as follows: Consultants $m PSPs $m Legal/Health Total $m Expenses $m 1999-2000 Financial Statements 22.6 126.8 40.2 189.6 2000-01 Financial Statements 5.9 131.5 44.6 182.1 Note: Table does not add due to rounding.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11783

Defence is unable to provide any further information for the reasons stated in question on notice no. 1186. Defence: Aircraft Operations (Question No. 1445) Senator Chris Evans asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 9 May 2003: (1) (a) Have any Hawk lead-in fighters been used in training exercises in South Australia during the past 12 months, with the full or partial purpose being to assess the safety of using the Hawks for training at the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) base Williamtown or the Salt Ash Weapons Range (SAWR); and (b) in particular, did the safety assessment include the safety of exercises where the cases for 30 millimetre cannon shells are ejected; if so, what did each of the tests find. (2) Have the cannon cases been used in training with Hawks at RAAF Williamtown or the SAWR in the past 12 months. (3) (a) Have any attempts been made by the department to acquire land near the SAWR in the past 12 months; (b) in particular, has there been any discussion with respect to land acquisition or any other issues with the Hunter Water Corporation; and (c) in broad terms what attempts have been made and their outcomes. (4) Can a table be provided showing, for each year since 1998, how many decibels are associated with Australian Noise Exposure Forecast (ANEF) 20, 25, 30 and 35 (for example, in 1998 20ANEF translated to 45 decibels, etc.); if the decibel level associated with a particular ANEF has changed at any stage between 1998 and 2003, can the change be noted in the table. (5) Has the Port Stephens Council been provided with the flight profile maps for the F/A18 Non- Afterburner Assisted Take Off within ANEC-2011; if not, why not. (6) Has the Port Stephens Council been provided with the flight profile maps for the instrument landing system approach used by the F/A18s at Williamtown or the SAWR; if not, why not. (7) Can the simplified flight profile maps, as used by the pilots, be provided for all activities undertaken by the Hawks at Williamtown and the SAWR in the past 12 months. (8) (a) Has the aquifer surrounding the SAWR been tested for aluminium levels; if so: (i) when; and (ii) what were the results of this test; and (b) what are the aluminium levels on average in Australian aquifers. (9) Has the department or the RAAF ever offered to pay for costs of a family living in Williamtown or near the SAWR to be tested for toluene exposure; if so: (a) when were any such offers made; and (b) has any testing been paid for by the department to date? (10) Has the department received any letters from doctors expressing concern about the toluene readings of their patients; if so: (a) when; and (b) what was the department’s response. (11) Is the Minister concerned about toluene exposure to people living near the SAWR as a result of the training of the Hawks; if so, what is the Minister proposing to do about these concerns. (12) Have there been any changes to the relevant Defence Instruction relating to defence practice areas (DI 59/1) in the past 12 months; and (b) can a copy be provided of the relevant unamended and/or amended instruction. (13) In relation to the referred Defence Instruction: (a) what changes, in general terms, were made to the instruction and why; and (b) what was the process for changing this instruction, in particular, was ministerial approval given for any of the changes. (14) If no changes have been made to the referred Defence Instruction, are there any proposed changes to the relevant Defence Instruction relating to defence practice areas; if so: (a) what do the proposed changes relate to; and (b) when is a decision on them expected to be made.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11784 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(15) Have laser guided weapons been fitted to aircraft training at or near the SAWR, or are there any proposals to fit such weapons; if so, what are the proposals; and (b) when is a decision expected. (16) What is the most recent noise exposure forecast information the department has provided to the Port Stephens Council, which is: (a) endorsed as the most accurate available; and (b) appropriate for the purpose of council consideration of development applications. (17) What is the Government’s position on provision of noise exposure forecasts to local councils or state governments regarding noise related to military use of defence land. (18) Does the Government supply local councils with final noise exposure forecasts (as opposed to draft ANEFs) when they are completed: (a) automatically; or (b) upon request. (19) Is the only endorsed ANEF for Williamtown and the SAWR the 2002 ANEF. (20) Does the 2002 ANEF accurately represent current and proposed future operations at the SAWR. (21) (a) When did the Minister or the department first notify the Port Stephens Council that the draft 2005 ANEF was inaccurate; and (b) what prompted this notification. (22) When the department supplied the Port Stephens Council with the draft 2005 ANEF, did it indicate whether: (a) it was accurate or not; and (b) it was endorsed or not. (23) If the answer to either of the above parts in (22) is no: did the department provide the Port Stephens Council with alternative documents to the draft 2005 ANEF that it considers are more appropriate for planning purposes; if not, why not; if so, when were these alternative documents provided. (24) Does the Minister consider information sources other than draft noise exposure forecasts to be more appropriate for use by local councils in considering development applications near Defence property; if so, what are these sources (in generic or particular terms). (25) Does the Minister intend to order that any further studies be made, or information be collected (particularly health information), given that the Supplementary Report to the draft Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) on the introduction of the Hawks at Williamtown and the SAWR states that: ‘During the preparation of the Supplementary Report, Environment Australia identified a number of discrepancies in the draft EIS, and advised that these needed to be clarified to ensure that the concerns raised in public submissions were adequately addressed. The body of the Supplementary Report indicates, however, that these discrepancies were not addressed’; if not, what does the Minister intend to do about the above statements and others in the draft EIS and final Supplementary Report that indicate some inaccuracies and incomplete evidence about the environmental impacts of the Hawk’s introduction. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) (a) and (b) During October - November 2002, the instrumented Hawk was at ARDU Edinburgh conducting flight acceptance testing for the Instrumented Aircraft and the associated ground equipment (telemetry, data reply etc). The aircraft was not fitted with the Aden cannon and as such no rounds were fired or shells ejected. The results of the test were (generally) that the aircraft should be accepted into service. (2) Yes, very occasionally at Singleton Army Range and out to sea. There were 3 periods of a couple of days duration where the cannon was fired in 2002. The cannon has not been fired in 2003. (3) (a) Within the Salt Ash Weapons Range, three roads and one creek bed are being acquired from the NSW Government. These portions are all Crown land; the acquisition process is in the preliminary stage. (b) In 1996 an easement was granted to Hunter Water Corporation over a portion of the Salt Ash Weapons Range.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11785

Defence is currently negotiating with the Corporation for an easement over Defence land at Williamtown for the maintenance of the pumping station. Linked with this, Defence will grant an easement to Energy Australia for the construction of a ‘kiosk’ substation to power the pumping station. (c) No other attempts have been or are being made at present by Defence to acquire any additional land at Salt Ash. (4) No. Decibels (dB) are units expressing a perceived loudness of sound. The Australian Noise Exposure Forecast unit (ANEF) is a single number index for predicting the cumulative exposure to aircraft noise in communities near aerodromes during a specified time. ANEF are not expressed in decibels. (5) The flight track and profile details for the F/A-18 Hornet non-afterburner assisted take-off is included as input data for the computer model which produces the ANEF contours. The Aircraft Indicative Noise Level Tables report No DOD 01-001 was provided to Port Stephens Council on 20 December 2002. This report includes Table 18 - Indicative Noise Levels for Boeing F/A-18 Hornet (Jet) – Non-Afterburner Assisted Take-off which describes noise levels in dB(A) at specific distances along a take-off centreline and at sideline distances from the centreline. On 23 January 2001, Defence provided to Council the Report on the Draft 2010 ANEF for RAAF Base Williamtown. This document includes Figure 2 – RAAF Base Williamtown, Flight Tracks. (6) No. At SAWR there is not a runway or need for an instrument landing system. The RAAF Base Williamtown Instrument Approach Procedures are publicly available in the Australian Defence Force Flight Information Publication – Terminal Australia and can be obtained from RAAF Aeronautical Information Services in Melbourne. (7) In the past 12 months Hawks have flown the following profiles at SAWR: (a) 30deg Application bombing (b) 45deg Application Bombing (c) 10deg Application Bombing (d) 10deg Application Strafe (no actual firing) All of these profiles are illustrated in the Hawk EIS. Aircraft transit over the entire Williamtown restricted area and therefore it is impossible to draw all tracks flown by Hawks around Williamtown (in the last 12 months). (8) (a) Yes. (i) The aquifer at the Salt Ash Air Weapons Range (SAWR) is tested for aluminium levels on a quarterly basis. The Department of Defence also tests the Hunter Water Corporation monitoring wells both upgradient and downgradient of SAWR. (ii) The results indicate that the concentration of aluminium in the groundwater at SAWR is consistent with the background levels on the Tomago sandbeds. (b) Defence does not hold national figures for aquifers, and as such, is not able to provide detail of average Aluminium levels in aquifers across Australia. (9) (a) and (b) No. (10) Yes. (a) The Base Commander at RAAF Williamtown received an e-mail message on 22 July 2002 from a civilian (Mr Mark Valentine) living near the SAWR claiming that he had been tested positive for elevated toluene. Mr Valentine requested that the Department of Defence arrange for himself and his family to be tested for exposure to fuel additives. This was followed up with a letter from Dr Soraya Felix (Mr Valentine’s family doctor) on 5 August 2002 to the

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11786 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Base Commander at RAAF Williamtown requesting the department consider payment of costs associated with the testing for toluene. (b) The Base Commander forwarded the request to the Defence Claims Management office who subsequently passed the claim to the Directorate of Litigation for a response. The Directorate of Litigation advised that, owing to the minimal (if any) levels of toluene in the fuels used by military aircraft, and the use of toluene as a common solvent in both domestic and occupational circumstances, the prospect of Mr Valentine’s positive result being solely due to aircraft activities at RAAF Williamtown is negligible, and declined the request. (11) No. Toluene is a common solvent and is found in many consumer products such as vehicle fuel, nail polish, cosmetics, rubber cement, paints and thinners, stain removers, inks and adhesives. Toluene in combusted jet aviation fuel is present (if at all) in trace amounts only (that is, <0.025%) as it is steamed off during the distillation process. There is no scientific evidence to suggest that the general population, including people living near the SAWR, would be exposed to toluene as a result of the activities of any aircraft, including activities involving the Hawk or other ADF aircraft. (12) No. A copy of the Defence Instruction has been forwarded separately to your office. (13) (a) and (b) No changes have been made to the referred Defence Instruction. (14) No. (15) SAWR is not cleared for laser operations. Only practice bombs (BDUs) which are not fitted with laser guidance systems are used at SAWR. (16) The latest endorsed 2002 Australian Noise Exposure Forecast map. This will be replaced with the updated ANEF map which will be promulgated on completion of the EIS for Hawk operations at RAAF Base Williamtown and the Salt Ash Air Weapons Range in near future. The new ANEF map will be provided to the local council for their use as a land management tool. Port Stephens Council has been provided with Australian Noise Exposure Concept maps for RAAF Base Williamtown and SAWR, which will form the basis of the revised ANEF map. (17) To effectively manage noise issues in cooperation with the State and local Governments, while maintaining the Defence capabilities. ANEF maps are provided to local Government. (18) Yes, automatically. (19) Yes. (20) No. (21) (a) In December 1998. (b) Additional information become available which required amendments to the unendorsed 2005 ANEF. (22) (a) On 18 December 1997 Defence provided Port Stephens Council with the 2005 ANEF and stated that “ANEF Report undertaken by the Department’s consultants... has now been completed.” (b) Defence had not endorsed the 2005 ANEF at the time of distribution. (23) On 24 December 1998 Defence wrote, “...the draft 2005 ANEF for RAAF Base Williamtown was prepared in 1997 and has not been finally endorsed by the Department.” This was followed up with a letter on 14 July 1999. In March 2000 Defence wrote to Council again, stating “Because the exact locations of the Hawk flight paths will not be able to be confirmed until Hawk has been in operation for some time, it is not possible to produce the Australian Noise Exposure Forecast (ANEF) at this time.”

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11787

On 23 January 2001, the draft 2010 ANEC for RAAF Base Williamtown was provided to Port Stephens Council. The ANEC, which is included in the Hawk EIS, was provided to Port Stephens Council in 2002. (24) No. (25) No. All matters Environment Australia identified as requiring clarification were addressed in the Supplementary Report and Defence’s response factored into the assessment report prepared by Environment Australia for the Minister for Environment and Heritage. Intelligent Island Program (Question No. 1448) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 9 May 2003: With reference to the $8 million grant to Intellinc under the Intelligent Island Program: (1) How much of the $8 million Commonwealth funding grant to Intellinc was allocated to the construction of the call centre at Triabunna, Tasmania. (2) (a) Who brought the proposal to establish a call centre to the board; and (b) what was the basis of the decision made by the board to locate a call centre at Triabunna. (3) Was a client for the call centre at Triabunna identified before the decision to locate such a facility at Triabunna was made. (4) What has the record of occupancy at the call centre been since its opening. (5) What is the ongoing cost of security and maintenance for the call centre, given that it has no clients. Senator Alston—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) Nil (2) (a) A proposal to establish a call centre in Triabunna has never been taken to the Intellinc board. (b) Intellinc does not have and never has had any interest or relationship with the Triabunna call centre. (3) As the Triabunna is not a beneficiary of the Intelligent Island program, I am unable to provide this information. (4) See answer to part (3). (5) See answer to part (3). Intelligent Island Program (Question No. 1449) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, upon notice, on 9 May 2003: With reference to the Intelligent Island Program: (1) What performance evaluation has the Commonwealth conducted in relation to the $40 million Commonwealth grant made to Tasmania under the program. (2) Who has represented the Commonwealth on the board of the program since the resignation of former senator Brian Gibson. (3) How has the $8 million grant from the program to Intellinc been divested. (4) Has Intellinc applied for, or received, any further funding under this program or any other Commonwealth funding program; if so, how much.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11788 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

(5) Has Intellinc generated a profit since its inception. (6) What is the remuneration to directors of Intellinc. Senator Alston—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The Commonwealth has received regular six-monthly reports on progress from the Intelligent Island Board. An evaluation of the program will be conducted after the conclusion of the program. (2) The Commonwealth is represented on the Board of the Intelligent Island Program by Ms Helen Williams, the Secretary of the Department of Communications, Information Technology and the Arts, who is an ex-officio member. At the commencement of the program Senators Brian Harradine and Brian Gibson were appointed to the Board. Although Brian Gibson has since retired as a Senator, he continues as a member of the Intelligent Island Board. (3) All grant funds have been expended in accordance with the deed of grant between the Tasmanian Government and Intellinc. Funds have been expended on day-to-day operating costs of Intellinc and invested in the start-up and growth, to date, of twelve Tasmanian ICT companies. (4) Intellinc has not received any further funding from Intelligent Island and has not received any other Commonwealth funding. (5) Intellinc is an ICT incubator that supports start up and early stage businesses in Tasmania. Consistent with industry standards, investment into early stage companies is a medium to long term proposition. Intellinc has not generated a profit to date. (6) Directors who represent an Intellinc shareholder on the board do not receive any compensation for the activities that they undertake as a director. Independent directors receive a flat monthly fee of $2000 which covers their core Board duties, as well as general representational, advocacy and strategic advisory services that they also provide to the incubator. Defence: Brighton Army Barracks (Question No. 1451) Senator Brown asked the Minister for Defence, upon notice, on 12 May 2003: In relation to the sale of the Brighton Army Barracks in Hobart: (1) What was the reserve price for the sale. (2) Why was a lower price accepted. (3) What was the exact nature of the contamination that caused such a low price to be accepted for the property. (4) When was the contamination assessment done. (5) Who did the contamination assessment. (6) Can a copy of the contamination assessment be provided. (7) Who purchased the property. (8) What plans did the purchasers indicate to the Government they had for the site. Senator Hill—The answer to the honourable senator’s question is as follows: (1) The sale did not have a reserve price (it did not involve an auction). (2) As there was no reserve price, it is not the case that a "lower price" was accepted. (3) The site was contaminated with minor oil contamination, a number of general waste sites and asbestos. (4) 16 January 2001. (5) IT Environmental.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11789

(6) Yes. (7) Touma International Pty Ltd. (8) The purchaser’s plans were not disclosed to the Government. However, a number of heritage and environmental conditions were included in the Contract of Sale to protect the environmental and heritage values of the site. Philippines: Australian Mining Companies (Question No. 1458) Senator Brown asked the Minister representing the Minister for Foreign Affairs, upon notice, on 15 May 2003: Have embassy officials in the Philippines met on a regular basis with representatives of Australian mining companies operating in the Philippines; if so: (a) when were the meetings held; (b) for each of the meetings, which companies were represented and who represented them; and (c) for each of the meetings: (i) what issues were raised, (ii) what requests for assistance were made of embassy officials, and (iii) what assistance did embassy officials provide. Senator Hill—The following answer has been provided by the Minister for Foreign Affairs to the honourable senator’s question: Embassy officials are frequently involved in meetings with a range of Australian business representatives, including from mining companies, in the pursuit of Australia’s national interests overseas. To dis- cover and provide the details being sought would require the diversion of significant resources within the department, which I am not prepared to authorise. In addition, many meetings with Australian business representatives are held on a “Commercial-in-Confidence” basis and it would not be appropriate to disclose the details of participants or issues raised. Employment and Workplace Relations: Office of the Employment Advocate (Question No. 1462) Senator Sherry asked the Minister representing the Minister for Employment and Work- place Relations, upon notice, on 14 May 2003: (1) What has been the annual budget for the Victorian office of the Office of the Employment Advocate (OEA) for each financial year since its establishment. (2) How many full-time equivalent positions have there been in the Victorian office of the OEA in each financial year since its establishment. (3) What proportion of the OEA’s budget and staff in Victoria has been allocated to providing assistance and advice to employers relating to Australian workplace agreements (AWAs). (4) In each financial year since the OEA was established, how many AWAs in Victoria have been: (a) filed; and (b) approved. (5) In each financial year since the OEA was established, what proportion of approved AWAs have been in Victoria. (6) As at 1 January 2003, which organisations in Victoria were: (a) industry partners; and (b) specified partners, under the Specified Partner Program. Senator Alston—The Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The actual annual costs incurred by the Victorian office of the OEA are as follows. Please note that the OEA’s total costs are provided for the financial years 1996-97 and 1997-98, as the OEA did not disaggregate costs by region during this period.

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE 11790 SENATE Tuesday, 17 June 2003

Financial Year Costs Incurred 96-97 (Jan-Jun) $5,378,978 97-98 $10,454,900 98-99 $1,132,695 99-00 $1,547,120 00-01 $1,400,331 01-02 $1,426,823 02-03 (at 30 April 2003) $835,241 (2) The following table lists the number of full-time equivalent staff in the Victorian office of the OEA for each financial year since the OEA’s inception. Financial Year Number of staff 1996-97 (Jan-Jun) 6 1997-98 13 1998-99 15 1999-2000 17.8 2000-01 20 2001-02 17 2002-03 (as at 30 April 2003) 11.2 (3) All staff in the OEA’s Victorian office provide advice and assistance to employers and employees, in regard to their rights and obligations under the Workplace Relations Act 1996, as and when matters arise. There is no allocation of work in the manner assumed by the Honourable Senator’s question. From March 1997 onwards, all staff have provided assistance and advice to employers relating to Australian workplace agreements (AWAs), at some time. (4) (a) AWA filing statistics by State are not available prior to July 2001, as the data were not disaggregated. The total number of AWAs filed in Victoria since July 2001 is as follows. Financial Year AWAs filed (Victoria) 2001-02 12,538 2002-03 (as at 30 April 2003) 10,748 (b) AWA approval data were not disaggregated until January 1998. The total number of AWAs approved in Victoria by financial year from that date is as follows. Financial Year AWAs approved (Victoria) 1997-98 (Jan-Jun) 9,545 1998-99 17,988 1999-00 16,391 2000-01 15,482 2001-02 13,288 2002-03 (as at 30 April 2003) 10,044 (5) AWA approval data were not disaggregated until January 1998. The proportion of AWAs approved in Victoria by financial year from that date is as follows. Financial Year Proportion approved in Victoria (%) 1997-98 (Jan-Jun) 55 1998-99 45 1999-00 32 2000-01 25

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE Tuesday, 17 June 2003 SENATE 11791

Financial Year Proportion approved in Victoria (%) 2001-02 18 2002-03 (as at 30 April 2003) 12 (6) (a) As at 1 January 2003 a total of 12 Industry Partners were from Victoria. They were: (i) Australian Mines & Metals Association (Inc.) (ii) Australian Retailers Association Victoria (iii) Civil Contractors Federation (iv) EMA Consulting Pty Ltd (v) Hall and Wilcox Lawyers (vi) Kliger Partners Lawyers (vii) Mason Sier Turnbull Solicitors (viii) Radford & Associates (ix) Restaurant & Catering Victoria (x) Robert Cannell & Associates Pty Ltd (xi) Stonier & Associates (xii) The Chessman Group (b) There were no Specified Partners in Victoria as at 1 January 2003. Environment: Seismic Surveys (Question No. 1470) Senator Brown asked the Minister representing the Minister for Industry, Tourism and Re- sources, upon notice, on 19 May 2003: With reference to the answer to question on notice no.1305 (Senate Hansard, 13 May 2003, p.10856): (1) When did the Minister view the relevant state environment plan. (2) Did these plans specifically deal with the problem of cetaceans; if so, in what way; if not, why was this acceptable. (3) Are all plans involving the use of explosions or noise dissemination required to address the problem with cetaceans; if not, why not. Senator Minchin—The Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources has provided the following answer to the honourable senator’s question: (1) The Minister does not view environment plans. These are assessed on behalf of the Commonwealth by the relevant State/NT Minister for Petroleum. (2) See above (1). The Minister for Industry, Tourism and Resources does not assess the Plans and therefore, cannot comment on what is dealt with in the plans. Under Division 2.3 of the Petroleum (Submerged Lands) (Management of the Environment) Regulations 1999 each environment plan must include: • An environmental assessment; • A description of the activity; • A description of the environment; • A description of environmental effects and risks; and • Environmental performance objectives and standards. (3) Yes. See above (2).

QUESTIONS ON NOTICE