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Title: Shri S. Jaipal Reddy moved the motion regarding calling upon the Prime Minister to drop three Cabinet Ministers on the Babri Masjid Demolition Case. (Not concluded) 13.02 hrs. MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I have to inform the House that Shrimati Ranee Narah and Shri Sushil Kumar Shinde, who have secured first and second priority in the ballot held for discussion on motion under Rule 184 have requested me to allow Shri S. Jaipal Reddy to initiate the discussion on their behalf. I have allowed Shri S. Jaipal Reddy to raise the discussion....(Interruptions) gÉÉÉÉÒ Ò ÉÉÊ´Ê´ÉÉxxÉɪªÉÉ BBÉÉEEÉÉÊ]Ê ªªÉÉÉÉ® ({{ÉÉEEèVè ÉÉÉɤ¤ÉÉÉÉn) : +ÉvªÉFÉ VÉÉÒ, àÉÖZÉä <ºÉBÉEÉÒ ¶É¤nÉ´ÉãÉÉÒ {É® +ÉÉ{ÉÉÊkÉ cè, <ºÉàÉå ÉÊãÉJÉÉ MɪÉÉ cè ÉÊBÉE ¤ÉɤɮÉÒ àÉÉκVÉn BÉEÉä fcÉxÉä àÉå ¶ÉÉÉÊàÉãÉ cÉäxÉä BÉEÉ |ÉlÉàÉ o­ ]ªÉÉ +ÉÉ®Éä{É cè* àÉÖZÉä ¤ÉɤɮÉÒ àÉÉκVÉn ¶É¤n {É® +ÉÉ{ÉÉÊkÉ cè* BÉDªÉÉ ãÉÉäBÉE ºÉ£ÉÉ àÉå ¤ÉɤɮÉÒ àÉÉκVÉn BÉEÉ ÉÊxÉhÉÇªÉ cÉä MɪÉÉ cè*…( BªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record.(Interruptions) …* MR. SPEAKER: All parties have agreed to discuss this subject in the House....(Interruptions) gÉÉÉÉÒ Ò +ÉɶÉÉÉÉäBäBÉÉEE ||ÉÉvvÉÉÉÉxxÉÉ (JÉÉÖVÖ ÉÉÉÉÇ)Ç : +ÉvªÉFÉ àÉcÉänªÉ, ªÉc ABÉDSÉÖ+ÉãÉÉÒ àÉÆÉÊn® cè ÉÊVɺÉä ¤ÉɤɮÉÒ àÉÉκVÉn BÉEÉ fÉÆSÉÉ BÉEcÉ MɪÉÉ cè*…( BªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) gÉÉÉÉÒ Ò ãÉÉÉÉãÉÉ ààÉÉÖÉÖÉÊxÊxÉÉ SÉÉÉÉè¤è¤ÉÉä ä (¤¤ÉÉBBÉÉDºD ÉÉ®) : ÉÊVÉºÉ ºÉàÉªÉ iÉÉãÉÉ JÉÖãÉÉ, ´Éc àÉÆÉÊn® lÉÉ*…( BªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: No please. Hon. Members, please take your seats....(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: I am on my legs. Please understand. Shri Jaipal Reddy, please....(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.(Interruptions) …** Not recorded MR. SPEAKER: Please cooperate with the Chair....(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.(Interruptions) … * SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO (JAGATSINGHPUR): Sir, I have a point of order. MR. SPEAKER: What is your point of order? Please quote the rule first. SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO : Sir, This is Rule 187 read with the ruling of the hon. Speaker on the 11th of December 2000. Sir, it is clear in Rule 187 that if any notice comes under Rule 184, under Rule 187 you dispose it of."The Speaker shall decide whether a motion or a part thereof is or is not admissible under these rules and disallow any motion or a part thereof when in his opinion it is an abuse of the right of moving a motion or is calculated to obstruct or prejudicially affect the procedure of the House or is in contravention of these rules. " This is rule 187. Your ruling is relevant. I am not reading the whole portion. I am reading the relevant portion only. I am not reading the whole text of your ruling but I am reading the relevant portion. "As the Speaker of the House, I am duty bound to follow and enforce the rules which have been given to me by the House. " Sir, you will enforce the rules."At the same time, it is also my duty to ensure that business of the House is transacted in an orderly manner. "Sir, I want to know in what way the contents of those earlier notices given by Shri Jaipal Reddy and others are different from the content of this notice. You admitted this notice of motion while disallowing the earlier notices of motions. * Not RecordedMr. Speaker, Sir, you can tell us. The House has the right to know under which circumstances and under which rule you have admitted this....(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Shri Trilochan Kanungo, please understand that this is a different text of the motion. In fact, all the leaders have agreed. It is the consent of the House. SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO : Please quote the rules or the Constitution. MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order, please....(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Shri Trilochan Kanungo, please take your seat. SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO : Shall I tear it? MR. SPEAKER: This is too much. SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO : Yes, Sir, you can throw me out. But I will tell you that you are not following the rules.MR. SPEAKER: This is too much. Please take your seat. ...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO : It is not correct. I want to know under which rule this has been done.MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. This is too much. What is this? SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO : You can throw me out. But you are not following the rules. I want to know this....(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: What is this? ...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Shri Trilochan Kanungo, do not think that it is your own house. Please take your seat. You should behave properly in the House according to the rules and regulations. Please take your seat.… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Now, Shri Jaipal Reddy SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MIRYALGUDA): Sir, I rise to move the motion under rule 184, the text of which is before the House."That this House calls upon the Prime Minister to drop three Ministers from his Government namely Shri Lal Krishna Advani, Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi and Kumari Uma Bharti against whom prima-facie charges have been found to exist for their involvement in the demolition of the Babri Masjid on 6th December, 1992 and disapproves the stand of the Prime Minister seeking to exonerate the concerned Ministers. " gÉÉÉÉÒ Ò ÉÉÊ´Ê´ÉÉxxÉɪªÉÉ BBÉÉEEÉÉÊ]Ê ªªÉÉÉÉ® :+ÉvªÉFÉ VÉÉÒ, càÉxÉä £ÉÉÒ xÉÉäÉÊ]ºÉ ÉÊnªÉÉ cè* …( BªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Sir, I owe it to my conscience and I owe it to the country to move this motion. I am not indulging in a platitudinous protestation when I say that I move this with profound anguish and without any trace of malice. The tragedy of Indian politics is that we personalise political issues and ideological positions. I have not moved this certainly for lack of regard for anyone of the three Ministers. In fact, I have healthy respect for Shri Lal Krishna Advani who represents a combination of fierce ideological commitment and formidable political talent.I have always admired his ability to articulate his medieval ideology in a modern idiom, his mildewed worldview in a mellowed way. By the same token I have always regarded Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi as sui generis scholar scientist. ...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record except the speech of Shri S. Jaipal Reddy. (Interruptions) … ** Not recorded SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : I have always regarded Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi as sui generis scholar scientist. But my philosophical problem with Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi is that he confuses history with mythology, philosophy with theology, astronomy with astrology. Sir, everybody in this House has a soft corner for our saffron sister `Uma Bharati'. She is a restless soul. ...(Interruptions) Sir, I seek your protection. Her soul keeps alternating, transmigrating from ministry to monastery, from monastery to ministry, from kamandalism to mandalism, from mandalism to Kamandalism. ...(Interruptions) Notwithstanding my happy personal equations, notwithstanding the considerable stature of personalities involved, it is my agonising may embarrassing duty to raise the quintessential question of the grave impropriety and the gross anomaly involved in the continuance of these Ministers. More immediately, I have been prompted and provoked by the salutary example made of Shri Harin Pathak. He was also criminally implicated in the context of public agitation. Our hon. Prime Minister, some time back, made distinction between issues involving corruption and political offences. This distinction, may I submit Sir, besides being dubious and devious is dangerous. The crime of demolition of Babri Mosque is much more serious, much more heinous than corruption. ...(Interruptions) gÉÉÉÉÒ Ò ààÉÉÉÉäcä xxÉÉ ®ÉÉ´´ÉÉãÉÉä ä (ààÉÉÖàÖतÉÉ<Ç Ç nÉÉÊFÊ ÉÉhÉÉ ààÉÉvvªªÉÉ) : +ÉvªÉFÉ àÉcÉänªÉ, àÉä®É {ÉÉ<Æ] +ÉÉì{ÉE +ÉÉbÇ® cè* +ÉÉvvªªÉÉFÉÉ ààÉÉcÉÉänä ªªÉÉ : ÉÊBÉEºÉ °ôãÉ BÉEä iÉciÉ ? gÉÉÉÉÒ Ò ààÉÉÉÉäcä xxÉÉ ®ÉÉ´´ÉÉãÉÉä ä : +ÉvªÉFÉ àÉcÉänªÉ, ãÉÉäBÉE ºÉ£ÉÉ BÉEä |ÉÉʵÉEªÉÉ iÉlÉÉ BÉEɪÉÇ ºÉÆSÉÉãÉxÉ ÉÊxɪÉàÉÉå BÉEä ÉÊxɪÉàÉ 59 BÉEä iÉciÉ àÉé BªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ BÉEÉ |ɶxÉ +ÉÉ{ÉBÉEä ºÉàÉFÉ |ɺiÉÖiÉ BÉE®xÉÉ SÉÉciÉÉ cÚÆ* +ÉvªÉFÉ àÉcÉänªÉ, °ôãÉ 59 àÉå ÉÊãÉJÉÉ cè :- "No motion which seeks to raise discussion on a matter pending before any statutory tribunal or statutory authority performing any judicial or quasi-judicial functions or any commission or court of enquiry…" …(Interruptions) SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : You have already given the ruling, Sir gÉÉÉÉÒ Ò ààÉÉÉÉäcä xxÉÉ ®ÉÉ´´ÉÉãÉÉä ä : <ºÉàÉå ãÉÉìº] àÉå VÉÉä ÉÊãÉJÉÉ cè, =ºÉä àÉé {ÉfÃBÉE® ¤ÉiÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉciÉÉ cÚÆ :-"…if the Speaker is satisfied that it is not likely to prejudice the consideration of such matter by the statutory tribunal, statutory authority, commission or court of enquiry. "+É£ÉÉÒ <ºÉ {É® ÉÊãÉ¥ÉÉcxÉ BÉEàÉÉÒ¶ÉxÉ ¤Éè~É cè +ÉÉè® ªÉc ÉÊbºÉÉ<b xÉcÉÓ cÖ+ÉÉ cè ÉÊBÉE ´Éc ¤ÉɤɮÉÒ àÉÉκVÉn lÉÉÒ ªÉÉ àÉÆÉÊn® lÉÉ* …( BªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)´Éc àÉÆÉÊn® cè* …( BªÉ ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)=xcÉåxÉä12 xÉ´Éà¤É® BÉEÉä {ÉÚVÉÉ BÉEÉÒ lÉÉÒ* …( BªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. Please take your seat....(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. This will not go on record. (Interruptions) … MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jaipal Reddy, you can continue your speech....(Interruptions)MR. SPEAKER: Please understand that all the parties have agreed to discuss it under rule 184.… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.(Interruptions) …* MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order....(Interruptions) SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : What is this, Sir?...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record except what Shri Jaipal Reddy speaks. (Interruptions) …* MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats....(Interruptions)* Not Recorded SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Sir, at this rate, nobody can make a speech in this House.
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