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House of Lords Official Report Vol. 724 Tuesday No. 95 18 January 2011 PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) HOUSE OF LORDS OFFICIAL REPORT ORDER OF BUSINESS (Continuation of Proceedings) Monday, 17 January 2011 (continued) Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill Committee (9th Day)(continued) Tuesday, 18 January 2011 Introductions: Lord Edmiston, Lord Framlingham, Lord Wood of Anfield Questions Deficit Reduction Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre Birds: Farmland Populations Egypt: Religious Minorities Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill Committee (10th Day) Written Statements Written Answers For column numbers see back page £3·50 Lords wishing to be supplied with these Daily Reports should give notice to this effect to the Printed Paper Office. The bound volumes also will be sent to those Peers who similarly notify their wish to receive them. No proofs of Daily Reports are provided. Corrections for the bound volume which Lords wish to suggest to the report of their speeches should be clearly indicated in a copy of the Daily Report, which, with the column numbers concerned shown on the front cover, should be sent to the Editor of Debates, House of Lords, within 14 days of the date of the Daily Report. This issue of the Official Report is also available on the Internet at www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201011/ldhansrd/index/110118.html PRICES AND SUBSCRIPTION RATES DAILY PARTS Single copies: Commons, £5; Lords £3·50 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £865; Lords £525 WEEKLY HANSARD Single copies: Commons, £12; Lords £6 Annual subscriptions: Commons, £440; Lords £255 Index: Annual subscriptions: Commons, £125; Lords, £65. LORDS VOLUME INDEX obtainable on standing order only. Details available on request. BOUND VOLUMES OF DEBATES are issued periodically during the session. Single copies: Commons, £105; Lords, £40. Standing orders will be accepted. THE INDEX to each Bound Volume of House of Commons Debates is published separately at £9·00 and can be supplied to standing order. WEEKLY INFORMATION BULLETIN, compiled by the House of Commons, gives details of past and forthcoming business, the work of Committees and general information on legislation, etc. Single copies: £1·50. Annual subscription: £53·50. All prices are inclusive of postage. © Parliamentary Copyright House of Lords 2011, this publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Parliamentary Click-Use Licence, available online through the Office of Public Sector Information website at www.opsi.gov.uk/click-use/ 173 Parliamentary Voting System[] Parliamentary Voting System 174 [Continuation of Official Report from col. 172, of Monday, How can you pluck a number out of the air, regardless 17 January 2011.] of how sophisticated the mathematics? I will have to show my husband Hansard tomorrow to prove that at 2 o’clock in the morning I was listening to a debate Parliamentary Voting System and about prime numbers, because he will not believe me—he will be sending for the men in white coats to Constituencies Bill cart me away. How can you randomly choose a figure Committee (9th Day) and try to make that fit the nature of the work in a constituency? An inner-city constituency is very different Monday 17 January 2011 from a constituency such as that of the late Ray Michie. In that constituency, she had a substantial number of electors for whom English was not their 2.15 am first language; a number of elderly people would have Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke: My Lords, we have no English. Indeed, the noble Baroness, Lady Michie, heard a number of powerful speeches tonight, not was the first Member of this House to take the oath in least from the noble Baroness, Lady Mallalieu. My Gaelic. The scale and the nature of the involvement noble friend Lady McDonagh has posed a real challenge that she was required to have were very different from for me. She is an old friend whom I greatly respect, but the scale and the nature of the involvement that I had I am having great difficulty in accepting her amendment. to have. I used to think that I was hard done by when I As the debate has gone on, it has become clearer to me had to travel for an hour across my constituency, but that there is no way that we should engage in this the scale of what she had to deal with was much process that the Government have begun of dreaming greater. up a number and then trying to put a case to justify it. We will be talking about Argyll and Bute later, It is not the job of parliamentarians or politicians of because some sweetheart deals have been done about any ilk to get involved in the setting of boundaries. some constituencies in this legislation, not least in I share the views of my noble friend Lord O’Neill. I relation to Orkney and Shetland. I can see why a think that this legislation will come back and haunt sweetheart deal has been done there and it is not to do the coalition. One of the most powerful things that with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of you learn as a Member of Parliament is the respect Tankerness. There is an argument for special treatment that people have for their individual Member of for a constituency that is composed of a number of Parliament and the deep opposition that they have to islands and is surrounded by water. There is a similar any attempt to undermine the relationship between case for the Western Isles, but why not for constituencies that Member of Parliament and their constituency. such as Argyll and Bute or the Isle of Wight? Why is I was amused when my noble friend Lady Billingham there this aberration of putting Cornwall and Devon talked about Corby. I represented one of the steel together? towns in central Lanarkshire that provided a high That is one reason why my noble friend has put me proportion of the people who went to Corby. On a in an awkward position. I believe that these issues have Friday night in my surgeries, I would have people to be taken into account, but we are the wrong people coming off the bus from Corby to ask me to intercede to do it. I listened with great interest to the speeches of with the council because they were coming up to the noble Lords, Lord Soley and Lord Morgan, on the retirement age and wanted to come back home. I did previous amendment. They made powerful arguments. not particularly enjoy handling those cases, but I The view is inescapable that politicians should not be found that when I went to Australia as British high involved in setting parliamentary boundaries. Somebody commissioner I had people coming down from Newcastle said earlier that we are not Zimbabwe; we are not a in New South Wales to make the same point. They country that mangles its constitution to fit political had come from Corby and wanted to get back to the need. However, to go down the route of this legislation United Kingdom now that their working life was over, would put us into that camp. so I have a great deal of respect for what happens in I am undecided whether, if my noble friend presses Corby. The point that that makes is the strong pull her amendment to a vote, I can support her, although that people’s origins exert on them and the sense of I think that she has made a powerful point. In normal community that they feel. That point has been made circumstances, her amendment would be regarded as a on a number of occasions tonight. probing amendment, but we have seen by the action of I strongly agree with what my noble friend Lady Members on the government Benches that the normal McDonagh said about the equalisation of constituencies. conventions of this House are now suspended. That When the noble Lord, Lord Boswell, was talking means that it is difficult to go down the route of about the size of his constituency, I was forced to moving a probing amendment to get a detailed response. recall that, on a Thursday night, I would fly home The noble Lord, Lord McNally, love him though I do, from here, often with the Member of Parliament for has never yet given us a straight answer on the criteria Argyll and Bute, the late Ray Michie. We would usually for the establishment of these constituencies other get the last plane, which got in at about 10.30 at night. than plucking a number out of the air. I hope that my I would be in my bed before she would have her car noble friend will forgive me if I feel that I cannot defrosted, after which she would have a couple of support her in the Lobbies tonight, but I think that she hours’ drive to get to her home in Oban. Her constituency has done a very useful job in exposing this issue, as the of Argyll and Bute was so huge that she could visit noble Lords, Lord Snape and Lord Kennedy, are bits of it only once a year. doing by also choosing numbers out of thin air, although 175 Parliamentary Voting System[LORDS] Parliamentary Voting System 176 [BARONESS LIDDELL OF COATDYKE] separate occasions, the Boundary Commission has the fact that Labour Members are choosing numbers supported the retention of six Members of Parliament out of thin air does not make it any more acceptable for the county, even though on a strict application of than coalition Members doing so. the present quota there would only be justification for five.
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