Wednesday 25th March, 1953
PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES
HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE OFFICIAL REPORT
PARLIAMENT SECBETABIA't" NBWDBUll Price Siz Amta1 (Inlcnld) Price Two Shntin§I (.P'Metgft) ' GazeJJs* S f>v:'-5t-c r>.'--:tian
Bk -c /: 'G'* THE Acc - ...... PARLIAMENTARY DEBATB&^^j...... (Part I— Questions and Answers) OFFICIAL REPORT
1346 1345 Shri Anil K. Chanda: There is al HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE ready a customs cordon. Wednesday, 25th March, 1953 Dr. Surcsh Chandra: May I know whether the Government have received any proposal from the French Govern The House met at Two of the Clock. ment to renew the Customs Union with India? [M r. D e p u t y -S p e a k e r in the Chair] The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS lal Nehru): There Vias been a customs cordon but owing to geographical and French Settlements in India other circumstances it is not quite easy to prevent smugglers going through. *966. Shri S. C. Samanta: (a) WiU Therefore it ha^ been decided to th e Prime Minister be pleased to state tighten the cordon. As regards the what steps have been taken by the other question of the hon. Member, in Government of India • after the view of other developments, there is d en ia l o f the charges o f terroj .>m, no question at the present moment of sm ugglih g etc., in ^he Fren ch posses our having a customs agreement with sions in India by the French Delegate the French Government. M Pignon, in U.N.O. m Novemoer ^last? Shri S. C. Samanta: May I know whether any legislative measures have (b) Have facts and fig u r e s been been taken or promulgated by the given to nullify the denials by M. French Settlements not to discriminate Pignon? against Indians? Shri Anil K. Chanda: There is ro in The Deputy Minister of E^ern^ formation, Sir. Affairs (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) No additional steps were considered ne<'es- O il R efinery sary. *967. Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: (a) (b) These facts and figures are well- Will the Minister of Production be known. pleased to state when the oil,refinery to be set up by the Standard Vacuum Shri S. C. Samanla: May I know Oil Company at Trombay Island near whether the draft resolution of the Bombay will go into production? • UNO. Trusteeship Committee on this ’ discrimination has been approved by (b) What is the refinery’s projected the U. N. O. General Council? capacity of refining crude oil?
Shri Anil K. Chanda: I have no in The Minister of Production (Shri formation on the matter. K. C. Reddy): (a) The refinery is ex Shri S. C. Samanta: May I know pected to go into production in Janu whether any further instances of :er- ary 1955, provided the ancillary faci ' rorism and smuggling have reached lities, and especially the marine faci Government since November last when lities, can be completed by then. M. Pignon denied the charges? (b) Approximately 1-3 million long Shri Anil K. Chanda: Earlier in the tons of crude oil per annum. sessio^i r have already placed all rele vant facts- in our possession before the Dr. Ram Subhas Singh: May I know House. the estimated approximate yield of re fined petroleum from this factory? Shri K. Subrahmanyam: Is it pro posed to establish a Customs cordon on Shri K. C. Reddy: I am sorry I can the Indo-French border at Yanam? not give the figure off-hand- 13 P.S.D. 1347 Oral Answers 25 MARCH 1953 Oral Answers 1348
Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I know Indian Nationals in this complicated whether the Government has estimated refinery system.? as to what percentage of our total re Shri K. C. Reddy: Yes; certainly quirements of petroleum products that is one of the clauses of the agree would be met by this factory? ment with the companies and every care is being taken to see that Indian Shri K. C. Reddy: The hon. Member personnel arc appointed and trained may be aware that along with this by these companies. factory the Burma Oil Shell Refinery is expected to go into production. Bamboo R einforced C oncpete There ii also a proposal to set up ♦968. Shri M. L. Dwivedi: Will the another refinery on the East Coast and Minister of Works, Housing and Sup when all these projects are completed, ply be pleased to state: we will be very near meeting our full requirements of oil. (a) whether experiments being car ried on in the direction of the use of Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I know bamboo re-inforcing concrete have whether all these three factories are borne any fruit so far; going to be. opened on the same terms (b) if so, what is the result of the and conditions? work done so far; ■ Shri K. C. Reddy: With regard to the I'c) in what parts of India and un- Standard Vacuum Oil Company and ,.ier whom are these experiment.s being the other factory, the main provisions carried; have been already made available to (d) whether bamboo-reinforccd the hon. Members of the House. As ccri rete has been used in any building regards Caltex. negotiations are pro or other construction; and ceeding and we have not finalized a n y agreement with them. fe) if so. for how long it has been used in the construction, and with Shri V. P. Nayar: May I know whe 'vhr.t results? ther Government have taken any steps The Deputy Minister of Works, to see that the products of this re Ho’jsing and Supply (Shri Buragohain): finery are sold in India at rates (a) Experiments on the use of bamboo cheaper than the very prohibitory reinforced concrete have been under rates now prevailing? taken at the Forest Research lustitiate, Shri K. C.. Reddy: It will be about Dehra Dun. It will be some time be the same price at which it is now fore final conclusions can be drawn. being sold in India, after these refineries (b) It is yet premature to say one are established. But it is too early way or the other. to say now the exact rates. (r ) The experiments arc being Dr. Ram Subhag Singh: May I carried out at the Forest Research know whether the amount of percent Institute. Dehra Dun. Some tests age of investment of Indian capital were also carried out by the Railways ists would be the sam.e in all these at Bombay on behalf of the Forest three factories? ' Research Institute (d) Bamboo reinforced concrete was Shri K. C, Reddy: Spiecific agree used for roofing slabs in some of the ments have been entered into with temporary hutments at New Delhi. regard to them and Government is taking care to see that these agree- (e) Bamboo reinforced concrete was meifts are duly fulfilled and imple used by the Central Public W<)rks mented. Departmental as an experimental mea sure for concrete slabs during the war. Shrimati Renu ChakraTartty: In Now. after 8 to 10 years’ use, many view of the fact that the price rre- slabs have given way and have fallen vailling now are much higher than down. those in Australia, is it still proposed that the new rates will be the same as they are now, and that it will be ?T*6dl ^ ^ ^ d nowhere near* the Australian prices even? % ^ ^ ^ Shri K. C. Reddy: The rates will ^ I o fk w have to be worked out later, but according to present expectations the rate will be about the same as is pre- . vailing now in India. f ? ^ • Shri S. C. Samanta: May I know . Shri Buragohain: As I said, Sir, the whether arrangements have been or experiments have been carried on in win be made for the training of two places, at Dehra Dun and al50 by 1 S49 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 135
the Railways at Bombay on behalf of time to time. The last time they met the Dehra Dun Institute: and recently was on the 21st of January and they on the claims made by Dr. Kam esam were to have met yesterday again. on this particular type of materia' certain experiments were also made at Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know his initiative by the National Physi whether any proposal to put up per cal Laboratory, but the results liad not manent boundary marks on that border been found to be very encouraging. has ever been considered? Shrr Anil K. Chanda: After the boundary has been properly demarca ted, of course the marks will be put up. Sardar Hukam Singh: Recently there ^ 'dd’il ^ were reports about the killing of a soldier of India at this border. May I know whether that has been investi gated? Was he on our side of the boundary or on the Pakistan side of * Shri Buragrohain: Certain claims the boundary? have been made by Dr. Kamesam with regard to this iTi-itter and this was also Shri Anil K. Chanda: I ^vcuM like discussed by the Seminar of the ECAFE to have notice of the question, Sir. last time. Sir. and further tests will Scrap I ron (E xport) have to be undertaken in this matter. *970. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will the Shri Dhulekar: The hon. Minister Minister of Commerce and Industry stated that the Bamboo reinforced be pleased to state whether Govern concrete roof had fallen. May I know ment propose revising their policy of whether the bamboos had fallen or were allowing exports of scrap from India? any repairs carried out? What was the cause? Was there any investi gation? ' The Minister of Commerce (Shri Karmarkar): Yes, Sir, the matter is Shri Buragohain: The bamboo con under the consideration of Government. crete was used as an experimental measure and for reasons of economy. I .‘^hould like to add that pending These hutments were pro?:ammed ‘to finalisation of a revised policy in this last for only three years. regard, no fresh export licences are being issued now. Border D ispute Sardar Hukam Singh: What was the ^969. Sardar Hukam Singh: Will the total quantity of ‘ scrap exported? Prime Minister be pleased to state: Shri Karmarkar: During 1952-53, !'a) whether the Financial Commis from April to December, 1952, it was sioners of the two Punjabs met in 314,255 tons. Lahore on .the 21st January, 1953, foi making a fresh attempt to' solve the Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know boundary disputes on the western whether there were a good number of border; and complaints that under , the cover of scrap iron, useful iron was exported (b) whether these disputes are lo and whether action was taken against calised to one or two places or are exporters? spread over a long area? Shri Karmarkar: We have been try The Deputy Minister of External ing to see whether we should not cur Affairs (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) tail exports to a greater extent. There Yes. have been a few complaints.
(b) Disputes have arisen at various Sardar Hukam Singh: May I know places along the border. ^hether arrangements to use scrap iron nave been made? Sardar Hukam Singh: May I knew whether the officers meet as and when Shri Karmarkar: We have recently any dispute arises or is there any permitted some six concerns in this permanent body to settle them as they regard and as a long-term measure arise? proposals are under consideration to set up electric furnaces in the Bhakra- Shri AnU K. Chanda: The Two Nangal and Hirakud sites where Finan'cial Co:nmissioners meet from cheap electric power will become I35I Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1352 available as soon as the two hyro- (b) whether Government have con ^ectric projects materialise. sidered the desirability of helping printing industries in India so that the Sard^ Hukam Singh: Till this, ex required machinery for the industries ports would be allowed? may be manufactured in India;
Shri Karmarkar: Yes, to the extent (c) if so, the steps Government considered desirable. have, taken in this direction; and Shri Nanadas: May I know whether any description has been fixed for this (d) whether Government have con scrap iron, I mean to say, the length sidered the desirability of putting a and breadth of the piece? check on imports of printed materials such as catalogues, price lists, folders, Shri Karmarkar: I did not follow it. cartons, labels etc., in order that the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Whether any swadeshi printing industry may pro description has been prescribed for the gress? scrap? The Minister of Commerce (Shri Shri Karmarkar: The description of » Karmarkar): (a) A statement is laid scrap iron is what is iron scrap. That on the Table of the House. [See Ap is being processed by competent offi pendix VI, annexure No. 48.] cers. (b) Yes. Sir. * Shri Raghavaiah: May I know whe ther this export of scrap iron is on the increase or on the decrease for the last (c) There are already two f^rms five years? manfacturing printing machines and Government have recently given sanc Shri Karmarkar: It was 314.255 tons tion to another firm for erection of a last year as against 46,055 in 19fii'52 factory to manufacture Platen Prer.ses and it was 31,688 in the previous year. and Cylinder Presses.
Shri G. P. Sinha: Do Government (d) It has not been found possible propose to do anything regarding the .to ban totally the import of such Japanese steel manufacturer who has printed material for the time being. come to this country and making l^rge purchase of scrap iron and iron 01 es. Shri L. J. Singh: May I know whe Shri Karmarkar: No, Sir. ’ ther the Minister has received the pro ceedings of the conference of repre Shri Bansal: What is the capacity of sentatives of printing industries held existing Indian electric furnaces for sometime in January in Bombay in the conversion of scrap iron? 1953 and if so, what are the decisions Shri Karmarkar: I should like to arrived at at the conference? have notice. Shri Karmarkar: Regarding the first B order I ncidemts part, I do not remember to have rece ived it. The- second part does not ♦971, Sardar Hukam Singh: (a) Will arise. the Prime Minister be pleased to state i*rbether recently,there were any meet ings of police officials of India and Shri M. S. Gurupadaswamy: V/hat is Pakistan held at Lahore fo discuss the total value of the- import of these matters relating to border incidents on printing materials every year? the western border? Shri Karmarkar: Its value during (b ) If so, what was the number of 1951-52 was Rs. 1,16,04,805. casei discussed and the number of dis putes resolved? Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: May I The Deputy Minister of External know whether Government consider it Affairs (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) and advisable to adopt the ostrich-like (b). None. « policy of banning imports of printed materials such as catalogues; price Pr in t in g M aterials lists, etc. to enhance internal printing? •974. Shri L. J. Singh: W ill the Minister o-f Commerce and Industry Shri Karmarkar: Where necessary. be pleased to state: Shri L. J. Singh: What are the diffi (a ) the various kinds of printing culties to ban imports of catalogues, materials imported - into India; price lists etc? Oral Answers 1354 1353 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Shri Karmarkar: Sometimes it is in Shri Hathi: I cannot give out the the interest of the country to permit am ou n t^ at this time. imports. Shri Bansal; For what particulap Shri G. P. Sinha: May I know how project this loan is granted? many indigenous industries are work ing? . Shri Hathi: For Maithon and Pan- chet hill. Shri Karmarkar: Two are already in operation and another is permitted. . Shri Raghavaiah: This loan has been given to Government for the develop L oan from I nternationai Ba n k for ment of this project. May I know whe D amodar V a lle y P roject ther it is irrigation aspect or the power aspect? ♦975. Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: (a) Will the Minister of Irrigation and Shri Hathi: It is for both the pro Power be pleased to state whether jects. the International Bank for Reconstruc Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: Wliat tion and Development has sanctioned is the total area that will be irrigated a loan recently for the further deve under this scheme and what will l>e lopment of the Damodar Valley Pro the cost of the canal water? Has that ject? been calculated? . . (b) If so, what is the sum now ad Shri Hathi: The irrigation area will vanced. on what terms and for what be about 10,00,000 acres but I am not purposes? sure of the figure. I can give it to you (c) What is the total aid given till later on. The cost is not calculated. now by the International Bank to wards the construction of this Pro V is it of Expert M ission of U n it e d ject? * N atio n s • The Deputy Minister of Irrigation ♦976. Shri Nanadas: WiU the Minis and Power (Shri Ilathi): (a) Yes, Sir. ter of Planning be pleased to state: (b) The sum now advanced amounts (a) whether any Expert Mission of to 19-5 million dollars. A copy each the United Nations has recently visit of the loan agreement between India ed India to survey the Community and the Bank and of the Project agree Projects Centres; ment between the Damodar Valley Cor- ooration and the Bank, is laid on the (b) what was the personnel j f the Table of the House. 1 Placed in Library. Mission and whether it had been in See No. S-22/53.] These documents vited by the Government of India; give the terms and the specific pur and . poses for which the loan hag been (c) whether the Mission has made advanced. anv reoort to the United Natioas? (c) 38 million dollars. ’ • The Depifty Minister of Irrigation and Power (Shri Hathi): (a) Yes, Sir. Shrimati Renu Chakra\artty: In this Agreement the loan and interest (b) The Mission consisted of:— are free from taxation. If you were to calculate on the .prevailing rates* of 1. Professor Horace Belshaw, interest, what would have been the interest plus the amount that has 2. Dr. John B. Grant, and already been paid? 3. Mr. H. C. Chang. Shri Hathi: I have not made that calculation The Mission was sent by the United Nations with the consent of the Gov Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: It is ernment of India. stated that the sum advanced amounts to 19:5 million dollars. We are only (c) At present there is no informa to buy goods with 19 million dollars. tion on the subject. Was there also, such statement on the first loan which we got from the USA? Shri Nanadas: May I kixow when the report of this Mission will be made Shri Hathi: We have purchased goods available to Government? worth about 12 million dollars from the first loan. Shri Hathi: The Mission has not yet Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: May submitted its report. It will be con I know how much we propose to buy sidered when the Mission submits its this time? ’ report officially. P355 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1356
Shri K. C. Sodhia: What is the object Shri M. L. Dwivedi: May I know if of this Mission? the order for the recovery of £467 was mada without examining the Shri Hathi: The object of this Mis- matters fully? 'sion was to tour round India ajid other -Asian countries and to see how far Shri T. T. Krishnamachri: No. No the community development organiza order can be made without examining tions could be helped further. the matters*, fully. I might add that £467 was arrived at on an ad hoc basis: Shri Damodara Menon; May I Vnow on the basis of charges incurred for 'whether this Mission visited India' on conveyance during holidays. It was . the invitation of the Government of not a matter which was decided after India? investigation into all the details of . S ^ i Hathi: It was with the approval journeys made. This was the basis on of the Government of India. which £467 was allocated. Shri Punnoose: Are we to understand Shri^ S. N. Das: May I know wheih?r that the Mission came and v/ent and the High Commissioner of India was the Government of India have no idea authorised to look into this arrange about their interest or reactions? ment of taking cars from the UK car pool or whether that matter was Shri Hathi; It is not a question of the brought before him after the officer had Government of India having any im used the car for more than two years? pression. They“have not yet submitted their report. » Shri T. T. Krishnamachar]; The posi ‘ Shri Raghavaiah: Will the 'lovern- tion is rather complex. The High ment make available to all the Mem Commissioner for India under whom bers of this House copies of the Report this officer Vs’as working, had written of the Commission if and when it is to the Government of India asking for submitted? * sanction for the purchase of a car because the transport position in Paris Shri Hathi; That is what I have where this officer was working was stated already. extremely acute. It took a long time for the Government of India to take iRREGULAS USE OP GovnRN.MEXT C aR BY a decision, nearly two years, and they . AN O fficer finally said that a car could not be sanctioned. In the meantime, the ♦977. Shri M. L. Dwivedi: Will the officer was making use of cars from Minister of Commerce and Industry the pool of the British Embassy. That be pleased to state: is how the debit arose in this connec tion. (a) whether any thorough investiga tion has been made by Government in Shri S. N. Das: May I know whether the case of the officer who placed at it is a fact that the officer was using his disposal cars from the United the cars even after sanction was hot Kingdom Government pool of rars granted to him? vide para 23(c) of the Audit Report . Shri T«T. Krishnamachari: As I said, 1950; • the matter goes into about 6 or 7 years. (b) the reasons for waiving further I am not able to say very definitely. T recoveries after only £130 had been see no evidence that the officer has dis recovered out of a sum of £467 as obeyed instructions in this matter so was recommended by the High Com ' far as this file is concerned into which missioner; I have gone fairly closely. (c) whether there are any more Shri T. N. Singh: Do the Government charges levelled against the officer; question the figure £467 as ar. over and estimate or an under-estimate or do they accept this figure as a working (d) what are the steps taken, if any, basis in view of the fact that this has . upon the recommendations of +he been audited and is the verdict of the Public Accounts Committee vide Se auditors? rial No. 16, page 324 of the First Report— 1951-52 of the public Ac Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: In arriv counts Committee? ing at an estimate of what journey The Minister of Commerce and could have been for private purposes Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): and what could have been for use in (a) Yes, Sir. connection with a man’s official busi ness. the estimate must necessarily (b) to (d). A statement is laid on be on the ad hoc basis. As I said, the the Table of the House. [See Appendix person who flx^d the amount as £ 467, VI, annexure Na. 49.] which should be debited to the account 1357 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1358 of this officer, did it on the basis of I n d ia Stores DErARTMUNT an d I n d ia the travels performed by this officer Su p p l y M ission during hohdays. So, it may be a good basis; it may not be. Subsequei.tly, *978. Shri M, L. Dwivedi: (a) WiU when the matter was reviewed again the Minister of Works, Housing and by the Government of India, it was Supply be pleased to state what are shown that an officer who is attached the recommendations of the two to an Embassy has to travel on official Small Expert Committees appointed in business even on holidays. It is not November, 1952 to suggest ways and a matter of using a conveyance merely means to improve the machinery of for going to office. Therefore it was the India Stores Department in LondoA felt that the basis on which the and the India Supply Mission in apportionment was made, however Washington, if they have completed reasonable it might have sounded at their work? that time, might work to the detriment of the officer’s interests. (b) What are the steps taken by Government to implement the recom Shri T. N. Sing-h: Is it a fact that mendations, part of them or any of there v/ere certain charges againr.t this them? same oCicer in ronneciion with his work in another Embassy? (c ) What are the terms of reference of the new Committee appointed in Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: I do iiot this connection and when is it likely kiiow. But, I can say that certain to conclude its work? charges were made against thi* oiTicer in respect of his working, in the way The Deputy Ministry of *Vorks, in which accounts were maintained. Housing and Supply (Shri Burago- The matter has been gone into. We hain): (a) The main recommendations found that there was no misfeasance. cover— ' (i) the improvement in the exist ing methods of preparation of indsnts by indenting departments and in the handling of such indents by the two Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: I think overseas Purchasing Organisations the hon. Member knows English. He with a view to ensure better and niore can ask the question in English. prompt service to indentors; Shri P. N. Kajabhoj: The hon. (ii) Provision of adequate .staff for Minister must understand Hindi also. the efficient handling of procurement work; and Mr. Depiity-Speake!r: That is all right. The hon. Member may speak (iii) Reorganisation of the .staff at in English. niger level by progressive Indianisa- tion consistent with financial consi Shri P. N, Rajabhoj; I would like derations in order to improve the to know how many cars were taken standard of efficiency in the two or by that officer. ganisations.
Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: There (b) These recommendations will is no question of his getting many amongst other things be considered by cars. He had no car. at all. It was *he Stores Purcha.se Committee that recommended that he should be al has recently been appointed under lowed to purchase a car. In the the Chairmanship o f the Deputy mean time, he was making use of the Minister. pool of the British Embassy. The British Einbassy were debiting us (c) The terms of reference of the with the cost of the use of cars. It m:iy Committee are contained in the reso be the use of one car today, another lution published in the Gazette of car ton\orrow. India Extraordinary, dated the 11th March 1953, a copy of which is laid Mr. Deputy-Speaker; Next question. on the Table of the House. [Placed in Library. See No. S-23/53.] Shri M. L. Dwivedi: 978. The Committee is likely to conclude The Deputy Minister of Works. its vwrk in about 4 months' tiine. Housing and Supply (Shri Burago- hain): There is another question, R e -organisation of the C e n tr al P ur No. 986 which is on the same subject. chase O rg anis.^t io n
Mr. Peputy-Speaker: Both of them *986. Shri Lakshman Singh Charak: may be answered together. (a) W ill the Minister of Works, 1359 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1360
Housing and Supply be pleased to Shri Buragohain: The Committee state whether it is a fact that an has not referred to any specific trans Expert Committee to review the policy action. It was not also asked to do so and working of the Central Purchase in the terms of reference. It merely Organisation has been set up by the examined, as I have injlicated already, Central Government? the existing procedure with a view to its future improvement so that any (b) If the reply to part (a) above weaknesses fould be eliminated and be in the affirmative, what are the usefulness could be improved. terms of reference of the Committee? (c) Who are the Members of the Shri T. N. Singh: Has this new' Committee and what is the progress Committee been appointed merely to of work of the Committee so far? implement the recommendations of previous committees or have the re (d) Has any preliminary report commendations of the previous Com been submitted to Government by the mittees including those of the Kastur- Committee and if so, do Government bhai Lalbhai Committee been found in propose to place their recommenda- adequate for the purposes? ‘tions on the Table of the House? Shri Buragohain: I do not under The Deputy Minister of Works, stand to which committee my hon. Housing and Supply (Shri Burago- friend is referring in the last portion hain): (a) Yes, Sir. of the question. . (b) and (c). A copy of the Reso lution of the Government of India, Shri T. N Singh: On the question of ' No. P-3(201) published in Gazette of Stores, there have been corpmittees India Extraordinary, dated the 11th both in the Railways Ministry as well as elsewhere. I am referring to the March 1953, is laid on the Table of the Kasturbhai Lalbhai Committee which House. [Placed in Library. See went into this question of stores and No.S-24/53.] made certain recommendations regard (d) The Committee having only re ing the Stores Department organisa cently been appointed no preliminary tion itself and suggested an indepen report could be expected so soon. dent organisation. May I know if these recommendations have . been Shri M. L. Dwivedi: The Gazette of found inadequate for our purposes and India notification to which reference this new Committee has therefore been' has been made is before me. I do not appointed? find from that whether any reference has been made to the Committee re Shri Buragohain: The Kasturbhai garding the examination of the pre Lalbhai Committee did not exa.-nine vious irregularities which have been the Purchase Organisation. What committed in this organisation. May that committee examined was the Cen I know if anything of this nature is tral Public Works Departnioril. So included in this? far as the two committees which have recently reported—regional committees Shri Buragohaiii: This Committee is set up in London and Washington— are not set up to go into specific transac concerned, their recommendations will ' tions. But. it is to enquire into rules be placed before this Committee only and procedure and other matters con ‘ o coordinate the procedure and acti cerning the organisation at the various vities of the three purchasing organisa levels and a’so regarding plannin^^ uf tions. The primary task of the Com indents and progressing of indents, and mittee that is now set up is t9 exa all other connected things. It is more mine the working of the organization to the future, in view of the increasing in India, viz., the Directorate-General tempo of our economic activities, than to the past that the Committee’s atten of Supplies and Disposals. tion will be directed. Shri Bansal: I think the hon. Mem ber is referring to the Shroff Report Shri M. L. Dwivedi: May I know if on Stores Purchases, and not to Kastur- * the Committees instituted to go into bhai Lalbhai. this question have recommended any thing in this connection after going into the irregularities, as remedy? Shri T. N. Singh: May I know whe ther besides this question of imple Shri Buragohain: The Committee mentation of the previous committees" has, as I said, been set up only re recommendations and also the stores cently. re-organization, this Committee is going into the question of other stores’ or- Shri M. L, Dwivedi: I refer to the ganizatidns run by other Departments two committees that were set up 'of the Government who do this job before. of stores p’jrchases? ^ 136 r Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers I 36i.
Shri Buragrohain: I think nothing can prevent this Committee from going into all these things. It has already ^ WTf«TJiT taken steps to get itself familiarised with the indenting of stores which is rTTT ^ ^qr really the coticern of the various Ministries, and, in fact, this Commit : ’ tee is so - constituted as to include representatives of the various Minis tries concerned, including Finance. A ( ^ ) ^ ^ representative of the Comptroller and t ^ ^ Auditor-General is also included in it.
Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Next question. We have spent enough time over this ^ ^ 3fi7T^ ^ matter.
O p e r a t io n a l A g r e e m e n t I ; -
♦979. Shri Ram Dass: Will the Min ( ^ ) ister of Planning be pleased to state: (a) whether the Government of India have signed any Operational * Agreement with the Government of The Minister of Commerce and U.S.A. in December, 1952; bdustry (Shri T. T. Krlshnamachari): (a) and (b). The Taj Modelling and (b) if so, what are the terms of the Agreement; and the Marble Carving Industry were ex periencing difficulty far some time (c) whether the number of Develop but the position has now improved. As ment Blocks has been increased by a result of investigation and experi this agreement? ment, the soap-stone available in the interior of Almora and Garhwal Dis The Deputy Minister of Irrigation tricts have been found suitable for and Power (Shri Hathi): (a) Yes. Marble-carving and these are being supplied to the Marble-workers of (b) and (c). A copy of the Supple Agra by the UP. Government. The ment to Operational Agreement No. 8 State has also arranged for the im on Community Development Pro port of 15 tons of Alabaster stone from gramme is laid on the Table. [See Ita ly fo r -the mnrble w o rk ers* Co-opera Appendix VI. annexure No. 50.] tive Society.
Shri Ram Dass; May I know whether the allocation of Development Blocks which was to be made before 31st March, 1953, has been made or not? f , Shri Hathi: No. The allotment has not yet been made. Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: May be. Sir. I am not in a position to answer Shri Bansal: Is there any allotment the question. in this for dry farming areas?
Shri Hathi: As I have stated on pre vious occasions, the recommendations ^ 3frar t, of the State Governments are invited. Ti e allocation will depend od the commenaaiions ot me btaie Govern • ments. Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: In this Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: May I matter, I am entirely guided by the know under what heads these blocks State Governments. Apparently, the have been included? U. P. Government considers that this substitute can be used. Shri Hathi: I have not followed Shri Achuthan: May I know the what the'hon. Member means. number of families engaged in this industry, roughly? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I think the hon. Minister need not answer this Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: I would question. Next question. like to have notice. t3^3 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1364
Shri K. C. Reddy: Decidedly not, Sir.
A uto m obile I ndustry ^ r^ qr^ PT T ^ *982. Shri S. C. Samanta: Will the Minister of Commerce and Industry ^ fsF : be pleased to state: (a) whether the components of au ( ^ ) ^ ^ tomobile vehicles are still imported by the firms in India having foreign f ftr irt?^ % capital and personnel; and ^T ^ % 3TT«TT ^ (b) if not, what percentage is im ported and what percentage is manu I ^ factured in India (i) out of indigenous steel, and (ii) foreign steel? 3nTT^ n^TT f ; 3ftr The Minister of Commerce and Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): (?^) 2Tr^ (a) Most of these parts are still im ported, some spares are manufactured ^'f -JTr ^ \'^^K in India. I ? , (b) Precise information is not svail- ■'ie. The Minister of Production (Shri Shri S. C. Samanta: May I know K. C. Reddy: (a) The coal quclas of whether any ancillarj" industry to all the States, including Uttar Pradesh manufacture the component parts has were readjusted on the bajis of wagon been started in India? availability. The overall reduction of quota in the case of Uttar Pradesh Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: Yes, Sir. was about 12 per cent., but this did Quite a number of industries are com not cause any coal shortage in the ing into being. There is a factory to State, the actual despatches of coal to manufacture piston rings; factories to the State being greater in 1952 than in manufacture spark plugs; and some of 1951. these parts are also manufactured here, like radiators, and a number of (b) Quotas have been re-adjusted on other small things. And I can also a realistic basis wherever this was mention that while these firms are found necessary, and further adjust importing by -nd :arge most of the ments may be made depending upon parts needed for a motor engine that requirements and wagon availability. is being assembled by them, they are buying a lot of spares from various ^ 3 T ^ : ^.2Tr ^XW-TX ^ factories in'India, and, in fact, I think in one of those concerns, very nearly 500 spare parts are being made in the country. Shri S. C. Samanta: May I know. ^ f t t ? Sir, whether it is the intention of the Government to concentrate on the Shri K. C. Reddy: I think I have manufacture of vehicles in a few fac already answered that question, Sir tories, and encourage other factories to in the course of my answer. There is produce component parts? shortage of supply of coal almost all Shri T. T, Krishnamachari: This over India, and that is mr^iniy aj- whole question of automobile manufac counted for by the fact of shottage in ture is now before the Tariff Commis wagon availability. _ sion. We are expecting a report frjin ^ Shri Raghavaiah: In view of the them in regard to what can be done, fact that there is deficiency in coal what car be manufactured, what kind supply to some of the Provinces in the of protection should be given and how country, will the Government of India many units should manufacture them consider the question of not exporting and so on. Government’s policy can 'Coal to countries like Malaya and South only be decided after receipt of the Korea? report of the Tariff Commission and ttiey have made a study of it, Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is not want of coal, but want of wagons. That is Shri T. N. Singh: When protection what he said. was first granted three years ago to this industry, statements were made Shri K. C. Reddy: You have answer in this House that within two years, ed that question. Sir. and in cert^iin cases, within three Shri Meghnad Saha: Is the wagon years, almost all the parts will have shortage the result of railway regroup been manufactured. J^ow, the hon. ing? Minister says that most of the parts 1365 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1366 are not being manufactured here. May haps a year. We are rather cautious I know how long does he expect this in regard to the issue of import licen state of alfairs to go on and protection ses. We only allow the import licenses to be given? for people who have got a manufat:- Shri T. T. Krishaamachari: I must turing programme. apologise for having misled the hon. Shri Venkataraman: Pending the re Member. The question has been port of the Tariff Commission, is it a framed in such a manner that it only fact that the Government have allowed relates to firms having foreign capital imports of vehicles in ‘C.K.D.’ condi and personnel. It does not relate to tion, only tg one or two companies, all the manufacturing firms. It is a and if so, why? fact. Sir, that, at any rate, one concern Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: In re is manufacturing quite a number of gard to people who have got a manu parts in the country. They hav^e not facturing programme, they have licen merely got a foundry; they have gpt ses pendmg. Most of them have not a forge and machining equipment also. used their licenses There is no ques- And, well, at the moment, they are jn of giving them any more, as the manufacturing cuite a lot of parts of licenses have not been used by them an engine. Orjlj’ a few are imported because of a slump in the market. So by them. But the question is a very far as certain other concerns are con narrow question relating only to those cerned, in the matter of public service firms with foreign capital and foreign vehicles. Government found that the technicians. stocks were so short that for the posi Shri Nambiar: May I know, Sir. tion to be safeguarded, certain imports when India can produce a full auto have been allowed. mobile by herself without importing Shri S. V. Ramaswamy: Is thej*e any any part because... plant for manufacturing automobile Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No because” engines in India? is necessary. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: He has s del so Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: That_is already. more than T can answer. Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: AU the Shri V. P. Nayar: The hon. Minister component parts of automobile engines told us that some parts are made by are being manufactured in one plant. these companies in India. Could the Shri S. V, Ramaswamy: Is there no hon. Minister give us the names of plant for manufacturing automobile some of the important parts? engines? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: We have spent Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Are we h iving nearly five, six minutes already. Those a d^cussion on this subject here? This parts will be laid on the Table ...... Let question relates only to those compan us proceed to the next question. ies which have foreign capital. We Shri Venkataraman: May I know are straying away from them to indi whether the Government have recog genous capital, and from there to nised any of the producers as progres parts of an engine, and then to parts sive manufacturers, and if so, who are of a wheel. Next qilestion. ' they? Su ppo r t of V illag e Scho oi, T e.\chers Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: I would FOR C o m m u n it y P rojects personally like to defer judgment in a matter like this, until I get the report ♦983. Shri L. J. Singh: Will the of the TarifT Commission. Minister of Planning be pleased to state; ' Shri Venkataraman: Following out of that, is it a fact that the Govern (a) whether it is a fact that the ment have refused or declined to allow Community Project Administration has the iniport of the vehicles in ‘C.K.D.’ formulated a scheme which has been conditicn, except for those companies circulated to the various State Gov which have been ‘recognised as pro ernments for enlisting the support of gressive manufacturers? village school teachers in the communi ty development programme; Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: Our im port policy now has got to be verv (b) if so, what are the main featu cautious, for the reason that we ex"- res of the scheme and pect the TarifT Commission to report (c) whether there has been any fav on this matter. And we do not want ourable response so far from the a glut of imports in the country at States? the time w'hen we will consider their The Deputy Minister of Irrigation report, so that any efTective action that and Power (Shri Hathi): (a) Yes. we have to take in this reg.-^rd may ndt be postponed indefinitely to a (b) A copy of letter No. period of nine or ten months or per /53 dated the 29th January. i'J53 s 1367 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1368 placed on the Table. [See Appendix P ackages of G overnm fnt Servants w h o VI, annexure No. 51.J. HAVE MIGRATED raOM EaST BeNGAL (c) Yes. *981. Shri K. Subrahmanyara: (a) Shri L. J. Singh: May I know whe Will the Prime Minister be pleased to ther the teachers will be given some state whether it is a fact that house allowance for extra work, and if so, hold belongings of a large number of what will be the amount of that allow ^Government Servants who had migra ance? ted from East Bengal are still in Paki stan territory without having beea Shri Hathi: If the Ron. member re booked to their destination in India? fers to the letter which has been placed, on the Table of the House, he will find (b) If the answer to part (a) above that it mentions, that extra allowance be in the affirmative, have Government will be given to them. any information as to why these pack ages are not being sent to India? Shri Raghavaiah: In view of the fact that there are inciden+s li'^e a The Deputy Minister of External teacher committing suicide in Vizaga- Affairs (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a ) patam, and thousands of teachers going and (b). Since 1948 complaints have On strike in Punjab and Uttar Pradesh, constantly been received from em will the Government consider it neces ployees of the undivided Bengal sary to pay the minimum required Government who opted for service in salaries for these teachers, besides any West Bengal that they were being allowances given to them, for co-opera prevented from bringing away their ting in the administration of this pro personal and household effects from ject? East Bengal. In 1949 the Pakistan Shri Hathi: The question here only Government agreed to give the same refers to the allowance for the extra facilities in this matter as India was work that they have to do, and not to giving to optees for East Bengal. But the basic salary. in actual practice, the East Bengal authorities have continu/^d to create Shri L. J. Singh; May I know the difficulties and to prevent in one way names of the States favouring this or another the transfer of such per proposal? sonal effects.
Shri Hathi: The replies are still Shri K. Subrahmanyam: Are the. awaited. . cases large in number? Shri Punnoose: Has the scheme only been formulated, or has it already be Shri Anil K. Chanda: Not very insig gun to be worked out, and if it .'s al nificant in number. ready being worked out, how many teachers have so far been associated Shri K. Subrahmanyam: Even though with it? more than five years have passed, are their household belongings still kept Shri Hathi> The suggestions t-ontain- there? Will the Government of India ed in the letter have already been com be held respon.3ible for them, or will municated to the States, .but the action the Government of India make the taken by the States is not yet known, Pakistan Government responsible for and is being awaited. them, after the dispute^ are settled? Shrimati Rei^u Chakravartty: May I know whether these suggestions had Shri Anil K. Chanda: They ha/e no been given to the primary teachers’ as grievances against us. We have done sociations existing in the various all that was possible for us to do in states, and if so, what was their reply? the matter. Shri Hathi: The question relates Shri K. Subrahmanyam: I wanted to mainly to village school teachers, and know what is going to happen to the so it must be primary teachers. household belongings left in Pakistani area, by those Government servants Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Next qve.slicn, who had opted for service in West Shri Punnoose: The last question Bengal. Who will be responsible for has not been answered, The question them? W^. it be the Government of was whether the primary teachers’ India that will be finally responsible, associations have been consulted? Il or will they nx the responsibility on so, what exactly was their reply? the Pakistan Government in regard to the claims, from the financial aspect? Shri Hathi: No. Sir. So far as the Pkinlning Commission is concern Shri Ani! K. Chanda: Certainly we ed, they have only sent these conclu are not responsible. That is all I can sions to the Sta+e Governments. say in the matter. 136 9 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1370
D iscussion of K orean P roblem I n d ia ’s D e le g a te to E le c t o r al C o m m is sio n FOR SUD\N *987. Shri Buchhikotaiah: WiU the Prime Minister be pleased to *988. Shri N. Sreekantan N air state; W ill the Prime Minister be pleased to (a) whether it is a fact that re state: presentatives of the countries whose (a) whether Mr. Sukumar Sen has troops are fighting in Korea on be been nominated India’s delegate to half of the U.N.O. met on the 19th the Electoral Commission for the ’ February, 1953 at the U.N. Head Sudan; and quarters, to .discuss the Korean pro blem; and (b) if so, what are the terms of the appointment and for how long (b> whether India was invited to will he be away from India? that Conference? The Deputy Minister of External The Deputy Minister of External Affairs (Shri AnU K. Chanda): (a) The Affairs (Shri Anil K. Chanda): (a) At Government of India have no informa the invitation of the British and Egp- tion ap^rt from the press reports tian Governments, the ' Government which have appeared on the subject. of India have selected Mr. Sukumar Sen tfi serve as Chairman of the Elec ^ (b) The meeting was of representa toral Commission for the Sudan. tives of countries which • have armed forces in Korea. The Government of (b) It was suggested that the Mem India were not invited. bers of the Suijan Electoral Commis sion should continue to draw pay from Shri Buchhikotaiah: May I know their own Governments so as to stress whether the Government of India are their freedom from local influences in a position to give reasons why India ana their complete impartiality. The was not invited. Government of India, in common with the other participating Governments, The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- accepted this suggestion and will, there .lal Nehru): Because we have nothing fore, pay Mr. Sen his present salary to do with it. plus an allowance to cover incidental Shrf V. P. Nayar: May I know whe- expenditure as well as the cost of * ther the Government o-f India tried to travel between India and Sudan. The ascertain the truth of the press reports, Sudan Government will provide him and if so, what were their findings? with accommodation and transport. Mr. Sen’s assignment is likely to last Shri Anil K. Chanda: The truth of from fou'r to six m(inths from the what reports? beginning of March.
Shri V. P. Nayar: The hon. Minister Shri N. Sreekantan Nair: May I stated that tlj^re were some press re know. Sir, whether in view of the ports, of which the Government were extreme bad feelings between Egypt aware. I want to know whether the and Britain over the election arrange Government have taken any steps to ments in Sudan. Government have ^ know whether such reports as those to taken into consideration the extreme which a reference was made, are true. peril to our national honour and self Shri AnU K. Chanda: We have respect if something goes wrong over made no inquiries in the matter, be there in connection with Mr. Sukumar cause we are not interested. Sen’s appointment?
Shri Nambiar: May I know whether The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar in view of the fact that the Govern lal Nehru): I really do not understand ment were not consulted in this matter, the peril to our national honour and they are considering the question of self-respect. At the request of the withdrawing the medical unit from Governments concerned, we have sent ^ Korea? one of our most experienced officers and he has been entrusted with a very Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It does not difficult task. I have no doubt that he arise out of this question. will _ discharge it to the best of his Shri Buchhikotaiah: Have the *Gov- ability. I do not know where the peril ernment got any intention to call for comes to anybody. a separate conference with indepen dent peace-loving nations to consider Shri T. K. Chaudhuri: Have the Gov this question? ernment any idea of how Mr. Sen’s appointment has been received by the Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Our concep Sudanese national political parties— tion of peace-loving nations differs. not the Sudan Government? I37I Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1372
Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: He would and state whether the Committee not have been appointed unless he was appointed to make a further exami agreeable to them. As far as subse nation of State Trading has finished quent information goes, his appoint •its labours? ment has been very well received by (b) If not, when is it likely to do all conc^ned. so? Shri Nambiar: May I know. Sir, if (c) What were the terms of refe Mr. Sen is to be there for five or six rence of this Committee? month', why we should pay him for The Minister of Commerce and that period? Why can’t the Sudan Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): Government pay? (a) No. Sir, Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The reason was given. It is a very small matter, (b) The Committee is expected to to oblige a friendly Government; not submit its report to Government with only in regard to Mr. Sen himself but in a month. the other members too, it was sug (c) A statc-iTient is placed oa the gested that the Governments concerned Table of the House. should pay. We did not argue about it. We accepted that. . STATEMENT Meeting of Poltce Officers Rajasthan AND »Ba H.WALPUR Terms of Reference of the State Trading Committee (1952) *989. Shri Gidwani; (a) Will the Prime Minister be nleased to state The Government of India examin whether it is a fact that a meeting ed the recommendations of State Trad of Police Officers of Rajasthan and ing Committee appointed in 1949 and Bahawalpur State was held in the considered that they required to be reviewed in the light of subsequent last week of February, 1953. in Gan- developments, particularly the falling ganagar District to review the border markets and the uncertain trend of situation? India’s International trade. The review (b) What were the subjects dis has been entrusted to a small com cussed? mittee. (c) What were the decisions ar 2, The Committee, while reviewing rived at? the problem of State Trading in the light of present economic conditions, The Deputy Minister of External will also examine whether and to what Affairs (Shri Aiill K. Chanda): (a) and extent 1he export of varn of certain (bX Yes. on the 24th February 1953- categories, of nandloom products and to discuss the law and order situation ol' cottage industry products could be on the border. undertaken by the State im the pre sent circumstances. (c)~ The decisions reached related mainly to the restoration of kidnapped persons, and of stolen cattle, the main Shri K. C. Sodhia: What is the total tenance and exchange of lists of iio'.oi- capita] sunk in these ventures by the ious cattle lifters and smugglers, and the communication of timely informa- ' Central and State Governments? tion of border crimes by the Superin Shri T. T. Krishnamachari: I am tendents of Police to their opposite afraid there is no venture at all in numbers. this matter. It is in order to venture into this rather difficult field that we Shri Gidwani: May I know, Sir, whe have asked for the recommendations ther the agreements arrived at at the of a Committee. conference were implemented by both Governments, particularly by the Paki E n em y P roperty in I n d ia stan Government? *991. Shri K. C. Sodhia: Will the Shri Anil K. Chanda: I have not got Minister of Commerce and Industry that information here. But the meet be Dleased to state how lone the dis ing was successful, Sir. They came - posal of properties still vested in the to certain agreed decisions. Custodian of Enemy Properties is likely to take? State T rad ing C o m m ittee’ s R eport ♦990. Shri K. C. Sodhia: (a) Will The Minister of Commerce (Shri the Minister of Commerce and Indus- Karmarfcar): I am afraid, it is not tiT be pleased to refer to the answer posssible to indicate fairly accurately to part (b) of starred question No. the further amount of time w^hich will 830 asked on the 2nd December, 1952 be required for this work. The dis 1373 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 1374 posal of enemy property depends on Association has submitted to the Gov the conclusion of negotiations for the ernment a proposal for the shifting of settlement bf Indian claims against some of the Government offices ta countries whose properties are vested Mussoorie to relieve the congestion in in the Custodian of Enemy Property. Delhi? These negotiations are still pending in some cases. The Minister of Works, Housing and Supply (Sardar Swaran Singh): Yes, Shri K. C. Sodhia: What is the total Sir, The association have suggested worth of the properties still left? that Government should consider locating some of their offices there; Shri Karmarkar: The total value is they are not worried so much about assessed to be 6,86,03,990. the congestion in Delhi but are natur ally anxious for Mussoorie, as the Hill R ural I n d u strial Scheme in M ysore Station is losing its former popularity. *994. Shri Thimmaiah: W ill the Shri Madhao Reddi: May I know. Sir, Minister of Commerce and Industry w'hat was the attitude of the Govern be pleased to state what is the grant ment. ■ for the- year 1952-53 sanctioned for Rural Industrial Scheme in Mysore Sardar Swaran Sinj?h: I have indi- and whether that srant has actually cs'cd the attitude of the Government. been paid lo Mj'sore Government? Sir. We are cohsidcring the- move of Th“ Minister of Commerce (Shri certain offices out of Delhi and Kannv»,rkar): A gram of Rs. 25.000 was Mussoorie is one of the statioiis which m[ de to the Government of Mysore- is being considered in that connection. for five production cum Training Cen tres in connection with the Rur^l Shri M. S. Gunipadaswamy: Which Industrialisation Scheme; but was are the offices which are likely to be diverted to finance similar centres moved? under the State Governments’ Three Sardar Swaran Singh: It is prema Year Plan, at the request of the State ture yet to make any statement. Government. The Grant has been drawn by the State Government. Shri Bansal: Has any similar request been received from Ranikftiet also? Shri Thimmaiah: May I know, Sir, w^hether the Mysore Government has Sardar Swaran Singh: It is being asked for some grant for 1953 and 1954? received from almost all places which are getting unpopular. Shri Karmarkar: That is likely, but. I should like to inform myself. Shri ,Nambiar: Is there any .sugges tion to shift offices t » Madras’ State? F ilm s on K orean W ar The Minister of Defence Or^raiii«a- tion (Shri Tyagi): It is a very oopular *995. Shrimati Renu Chakravartly: State. (a) Will ihe Minister of Information and Broadcasting:. be oleased to state Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Now all the how many news-reels which contain questions are eve.. pictures on the Korean War have Shrimati Renu Chakravartty: It has been passed by the Central Board of been :ntin"ated to you that I can put Film Censors during the period 1951 the question of Shri Dasratha Deb. 53? A letter has been sent to you. (b) How many of these were U.S.A. Mr. Deputy-Speaker All right. Has productions and how many from other the hon. lady member been authorised?" countries? Shrimati Renu Cfiakravarti^y: It is. (c) How many of these have been in your possession. Sir. . refused certificates and from which countries did these films emanate? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: What is the question? > The Minislter of Info|rmation and Broadcasting (Dr. Kcskar): Informa Shrimati Renu Chakriavartty: !No.’ tion is being collected and wiH be 993, laid on the Table of the House. Mr. DCputy-Speaker: It has been transferred to another date— 31st Sh if tin g of O fhces to M ussoorie March. The question hour is over. •973. Shri Madhao Reddi: Will the Now I will call the short notice ivrmister of Works. Housing and Sup questions. ply be pleased to state whether it is a fact that the Mussoorie House owners Shri Amjad Ali, 1375 Oral Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Oral Answers 13/6
Short Notice Questions, and Answers Northern Districts of West Bengal are being collected by the State Govern Se v e r e G a le s i n B e n g a l a n d A ssam ment. I. Shri Amjad Ali: WiU the Minister In Assam, more or less all districts o f Home Affairs be pleased to state; are reported to have been affected but (a) whether the attention of Govern none of them very severely. The ment has been drawn to the news damage in the districts of Nowgong, paper report (A. B. Patrika, dated Goalpara, Golaghat, Kohima in Naga I7th March 1953) of the severe Hills district is, however, more severe gales sweeping parts of Bengal and than in other districts. So far 17 deaths Assam; have been reported. Several houses have been blown down and some Gov (b) the loss to propertj^ and lives it ernment buildings have also been involved; affected. No serious loss to animal life (c) damage to standing crops and is reported. There are at present no fruit bearing trees; and standing crops in Assam. Suitable relief measures have been taken by the (d) the relief measures taken and State Government. also measures to restore the tele communications? There were some heavy breakdowns of tele-communications in both Assam The Deputy Minister ' of Home and Bengal. Telegraph lines were Affairs (Shri Datar): (a) to (d). With extensively damaged in Manipur your permission, Sir, I propose to Road— Mariani, Gauhati-Cooch-Behar- make a brief statement covering all Siliguri— Kiatihar, Gauhati-Shillong and the points. Siliguri—Darjeeling sections due to flying corrugated iron sheets from I regret to say that fuU details have house tops striking against wires, up- not yet been received from the State rooied trees falling on lines and tele Governments concerned. However, graph poles leaning at several points. according to the information so far Main line communications were inter received, it appears that the aliected rupted to places in North Bengal and areas in West Bengal are mainly in the Assam on the 13th. Several telegraph Kotwali and Dinhanta Police Stations circuits >o statio.:s in t, e interior were of the Cooch-Behar district. It is also interrupted. The work of ri'pair- reported that several persons were in ing the damage to lines was commenc jured in these districts, but only three ed on the night of the 13th itself. Tele cases proved fatal; some cattle are also graph and telephone communications reported to have been destroyed. A were restored to Siliguri and Gauhati number of huts were razed to the by the 14th morning, to Shillong t^y ground and marfy more severely noon and Darjeeling by the evening. damaged affecting more than 2,000 families. Several refugee colonies were Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Sir, it is a long also affected. Some damage was statement and we are not able to caused to Tobacco both in fields and in follow it. ^ godowns. A few roads ^were blocked The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- by uprooted trees but have since been lal Nehru): It deals with uprooting of cleared. Telegraphic and telephonic telegraph poles in Assam and 3engal. communications which were disrupted have since been restored. The total Shri Datar: According to the rules -amount of damage is stated to be it has to be read. Sir. There ore about Rs. 2 lakhs. 10 or 15 lines more. Medical aid was rendered cji the Mr. Depoty-Speaker: Tliis is a veiy night of occurrences Next morning, serious matter. As a matter of fact, arrangements were made, v/herever the hon. Member wanted to raise s possible, for the distribution of powder motion of adjournment in this House milk and biscuits from local Red Having regard to the amount of casu Cross stocks. Later rice, dal, blankets, alty etc. brought about by the gales, dhuties, saris and more powder milk I said a short notice question would were distributed from relief stocks in enable the Government to collect the hand. A sum of Rs. 3,000 has been necessary information on these mat sanctioned by the State Government ters. I thought the House will natu for distribution as gratuitous relief for rally be inclined to hear in some detail food. They are also expecting further all about it. If the hon. Members are proposals from the district authorities not inclined. I will hereafter ask only for free grant of loan for house build whatever might be necessary to be ing purposes. read. It is rather difficult, I find that when sufficient information is . given The particulars of the storms that exception is taken to it, and when in- might have passed over the other formaton is not given fequal exception O ral Answers 25 M A ftC H 1953 brai Ansuoeti is taken to it. Therefore, I am not in Shri Nambiar: Sir, in view of the a position to advige the hon. Minister. fact that theire was.'so much havoc Hereafter, I will leave the discretion to caused with loss of 'life, may I know him. If it is lengthy he need not read the reaspij why the relief granted was it. If it is very long he can lay it on up to an amount of Rs. 3,000 Jiily? the table of the House. He is not obliged to read every pprtion of it. Shri Datar: It i^ Rs. 3.000 in Bengal up to the'time of wiring the informa Shri Datar: May .1 read the rest to tion to us. . the House? I have no objection. Shri Amjad Ali: What was the amont Mr. Deputy-Speaker: There are only given in Assam, Sir? 10 or 15 lines you may read it. Shri Datar: That figure has not been Shri Datar: Circuits to Tinsukhia supplied to us. and Imphal were restored by the Shri Nambiar. Was any re^wf sent afternoon on the 15th, >as the damage from the Centre? iLi Manipur Road-Mariani section was fairly extensive. All telegraph com Shri Datar:' If it is asked for we munications to places in the interior shall gladly.'^end it... , and railway telegraph and control cir cuits were also restored by the after Mr. Deputy-SpealLcr: Next question noon of the 15th. * No. 79. _ Shri Matthen: Sir, my question has The only Aeronautical Communica been mutilated. - tion'Stations affected were at the aerodromes at Jortiat and Kumbhir- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: If the lion. ^lam. However, there was no djslo- Member .is not willing to^have it in the cation of the Aei'onautical Radio faci mutilated form, 1 will pass to the next lities at' Jorhat. At Kumbhirgram, question. wnere more serious damage was caus ed, the communications were restored Shri Matthen: No, Sir. Will he allow by making emergency arrangenients on me to read that portion which has been the afternoon of the 14th March, By ^deleted? . the morning of the 15th, all Aeronauti cal Radio facilities weie functioning Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No: oaly normally. *• * ^ . that is typed and placed before him.
No damage to the Railway lines and U r a n iu m T h o i?iu m P l a n t . the roads has so far been reported. •' n. Shri Matthen: -(a) Will the Minis Shri Amjad Alii May I ask' one ques ter of Natural Resources and Scietttifie tion, Sir? Research be pleased to state why the proposed Uranium Thoriuin Plant is to Mr. Deputy-Spei^Ker: The answer is be erected in Bombay Harbour Island? s.Ufficiently long. ' ; (b) Did the Government consult the Travancore-Cochin Government before Shri Amjad Ali: What was the ex this decision was made? ^ tent of the fury of the gales and is it the information of th6 Government (c) In view of the availability of the that one plane was involved in this or main raw material and other favourable overtaken by the gale near Agartala factors, have Government considered and there was certain loss of lives? the desirability of erecting the Plant in Alwaye t)t Cochin? Shri t>atar: We* have no informa tion, SirV ^ (d) Are Government" aware of the need of erecting more factories in Shri ti. J. SingA; AreT Government Travancojjp-Cochin-in view of the^great aware of the fact, Sir, that moire than unemployment problem there? 50 per cent, of the houses in the southern part of Manipur .were hlown . The Deputy Minister dt Natoal Re off by the recent .tyclone?. " sources and Scientific Research j(Sbrl K. D. Malaviya): (a) to (d). A state Shri Datar: All the information that ment giving detailed information on has bfeen received was tead by me just tl^e subject i§ o^aced on the Jable of now. There is no further information. the House, [See Appendix^ VI, an- nexure No. 52.] .Shri L. J. Singh: No mention was made about Manipur. Shri Matthen: I have read the reply, Sir. Wasi/ipt the honi Dy. mpister Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Further infor present when different reasons were mation is being collected. adduced at the meeting of the N.R, 13 PSD. ^379 Oral Ariswers 25 M A H C H 1953 Oral Answers 13^0
and S.R. Committee three days ago, one from the Travancore-Cochin State lack of electricity ^ d ' dearth of to other parts of India is very damag ' sulphuric acid and caustic soda as res ing to our economic interests and our ponsible for ^lifting that factory from self-respect? ' ' ' Alwaye'to i Bombay V — Shri Joachim Alva: Since the hon. Shri K. D. Malaviya: I was present Prime Minister has intervened in tliis 'tft tile meeting and the Treasons given question, may^ I ask him what is the there are almost the same as have been policy of Government in regard to stated in the answer. , congregating important major indus tries in large cities especially in times Mr. Deputy-Speiiker: Thb hon. Minis of war? ...... ^ ^ ter says the same reasons are there. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: That does not Shri Matthen: Did he point 'oiit then, arise out of this question. Sir, that both electricity and sulphuric acid are in plenty in. Alwaye, and a Shii P. T. Chacko: May I know what new reason has been given now? are the products intended to be /manu factured in this nfeW falCtory? The Prime Minister (^hr| Jawahar- lal Nehru): I reaUy do not understand, Shri K. D. Malaviya: Mainly manu Sir, how this question arises. I am facture of thorium nitrate and also pro slightly connected with the matter, . cessing of uranium. being in charge of the Atomic Energy Commission. After full consideration, Shri V. P. Nayar: In view of the fact they came to a decision. -Now,' how that the ^lew factory will create the can v/e go into what was a suitablt? necessity for , erpplpying additional place, for dealinjg. -^ith Uranium Plant, labour,, may I know whether Govern ,,;Whether Alwaye or Bombay, and dis ment have consid.ered the growing un cuss tlie suitability in • answer to a . employment in Travancore-Cochin be short notice question? fore they think of shifting this factory? , Shri P, T. Chacko: May I Itnow whe Shri K. D. Malaviya: The whole ther this factory is intended to process • question has bfeen considered. the residual cake left behind by the Shri V. P.'Nayar: One more question. Rare Earths Factory at Alwaye? Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No. . Next Shri K. t>. MalaViya; Yes, Sir. Short Notice Question. Shri Pimnoose: May I know whether Av'MTipN’ F uel , there is any other factory dealing with Rare Earth which produces the same in . Shri V. P. Nayar: Will the Minis ’;'^tuff?^; ' ; ‘ v ter of Work?, llpusiAg .ai^d Supply be pleased to state: ; Shri I L ' D. Malaviya: So • far as I know, there is not. (a) whether Gpverpment have^piade any efforts to enable the Air Ser\-ices Shri Fiinnoose: Is it not advisable to operating in India to get 90-octane-98 have a factory to deal with these under Grade Aviation Fuel; favourable local conditions? • (b) whether , this grade is not Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Hon. Members cheaper than the 100-octane-130 grade are forgetting the scope of questions. fuel now used . by Indian Air . Com- They are intended normally to elicit patiies; and . . information. I f they have any action to suggest and to raise, discussion there (c) whether Government are aware are other means by which the matter that lOO-octane-130 grade fuel is sup may be raised. plied to the Australian Air ‘Services at rates considerably cheaper than the N. Srpefcantsm Nair: May I rates charged in India and that by the know ; whether the, . Government of -same suppliers? - V ...... India intends to pay Messrs. Indian Rare Earths Ltd. any price for the The Deputy Minister of Works, ,.i?e§idiiayy c^ke .opp.t^jining, uranium and Housing and Supply (Shti Burago- ■ .^thprjum hyOTox?^? : hain): (a) No, Sir. . Shri, D. Malaviya: Messrs Indian • (b) Yes, Sir. Only very slightly. Raro/Earlhs. Ltd. will certainly g«t ail the*dues for the re^duary, cake that (c) No, Sir; they sell. ' ...... Shri V. P. Nayar; M ay'I know*’Whe Kttioan, Annifi Mascarei^r May I ther the attention of ‘GoveiTiment has . , kpow,, whether government are av/are been drawn to the fact that aviation that this shifting of factories one by fuel used by Dakotas in Australia is 138^ 1381 Oral Answers 25 M A H G » 1953 Written Answers
42 p^r cent, cheaper than the fuel form the House of the source ;0f his available in -India? information? : Sbri Buragrohain: The position stated Shri Baragbliaiii:'In AustVaUa\at by the hon. Mehiber is not c'orrect. Durban it is 34-13 pence and at Sydn^ 3173 pence, w h i c h works out to Shri V. P. Nayar: May I know whe Rs. 1-6-9 and Rs. 1-5-2 respectively, ther the hon. Minister has seen the whereas rin. .BorolJay . an# . it report of the Air Transport Enquiry works out to. Rs. Committee, to para. 138 of which, on excluding, taxes and duty. . • page 71, I would draw his pointed attention? ' ^ S4ii^ V. i db'ndt wfet’ tHte price at Bombay atiij Calcutta. .Petrol Mr. Deputy-Speakw: The hon. Minis is supplied at seveiral other interiof ter does not agree with him. ports also. What isr:tihe ^ y w g e ,price of petrol?- " .j ^ Shri V- F. Nayar: This .is a commit tee appointed by the Government of "M t, D^pW y-Sp^er: Order, ^ order. India and there is no getting away 'We are going into rtfnute deltails. frorapthe .faots coi>tain?.4 in. r.^ort. Shri V. P. Nayar; One more ques tion. ■ ' ' ' ’ Shri Buragohain: I Ixave .seen that report. The position stated therein . Mr; DepHtjt-Spealjer: ?Nq ,mor^.
maintenance staff working at present and their salaries, is laid on the Table (c) Under the Indo-PaKistan Agree of the House. ‘ [See Appendix VI, an- ment of 1948. all border incidents other nexure No. 53:] than those involving questions of policy have to be settled by the District I n d ia n ' D octors for B urm a Magistrates of the border districts con cerned, and. failing a decision by them, *985. Shri B. S. Murthy: WiU the by the Commissioners of the Divisions Prime Minister be pleased to state Steps have also to be taken by them the number of Indian doctors recently to prevent recurrence of such incidents. recruited by the Government of Burma Serious incidents are taken up with the and the number of doctors who have East Bengal Government by the State * already left for Burma? Government concerned. Action accord ing to this procedure has been taken. The Deputy Minister of • External Affairs (Shrt Anil K. Chanda): 201 Indian doctors wer^ selected by the G ypsu m D eposits in R ajastaan Government of Burma, and 103 of them Jiave left for Burma so far. 696. Shri Balwant Sinha Mehta: A.I.R. S t a t io n , V ij a y a w a d a Will the Minister of Production be pleased to state: . ♦992. Shri B. S. Murthy: Will the Minister of Information and Broad (a) whether it is a fact that Gypsum casting be pleased to state: deposits in Rajasthan is the only source of supply to Sindri Fertilizers (a) whether the All India Radio, Factory; Vijayawada, has been down-graded; • (b) if so, since when and the rea (b) the estimated quantity of Gyp sons therefor; sum in reserves for this purpose, ' , (c) whether,: any representations (c) when this factory operates in were received*' protesting against such • its full capacity, for how many years an action; and these reserves would suffice; - (d) if ;-so, the attitude of Govern (d) whether new sources arfe being ment towards the same? tapped; The Minister of Information and • (e) whether Government are aware ]f(t‘oadcasting (Pr. Keskar): (a) No, that large quantities of Gynsum are Sir. ' burnt on the site and used for build ing purposes; (b) to (d )„ Do not arise. (f) i| so, what steps are being taken P a k is t a n i R aid o n A ssam Border V illag e to check it; 695. Shri Ganpati Ram: Will the Prime Minister be pleased to state: (g) whether Government are also aware that the Cement Factories mis (a) whether there was a Pakistani use it; and >aid in the border village of Takimari iti Assam on the night of the 11th (h) whether investigations have Febmary, 1953; been made and if so, up to what grade the gypsum could well serve the pur (b) if so, the casualties, if any, and pose of Cement Factories? the amount of property lost; ana The Minister of Production (Shri (c) whether any steps have been K. C. Reddy): (a) No, but for the pre taken by the Government of India to sent only the deposits in Rajasihan. put a stop to such raids? * which are the largest and of a grade suitable for the Sindri Fertilizer Fac The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- tory, are#being exploited for this pur lal Nehru): (a) It is reported that pose. Pakistani nationals attempted a dacoity in a house of village Takimari. Goal- para District. (b) The reserves of high purity gyosum in Rajasthan are estimated at (b) As a result of firing by the 36i million tons. Deposits are also dacoits, four persons received injuries, reported to exist at the followii^g of whom one died on the way to hos places and in the quantities shown pital. The value of property lost is against them, but their quality and not known. purity with respect to their suitability 138 6 138 5 Written Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Written Answers
for the Sindri Fertilizer Factory still engaged in its manufacture by provid remain to be determined;— ing facilities in the form of improved slaughter-houses and cold storage Madras 16,300,000 tons transport arrangements in Railways? Saurashtra 4,466,000 ,, The Minister of Commerce and Kiftch 2,071,000 ” Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): Himachal Pradesh 383,000 ” (a) to (e). A statement is placed on the Table of the House. [See Appen Uttar Pradesh 206,000 ” dix VI, annexure No. 54.] Large deposits are also known to oc- f ur in Kashmir and Bhutan byt de I n flu x of P ak is t a n is from Ba h a w alf u r tailed survey of these deposits has stiil 698. Shri S. N. Das: W ill the Prime to be carried out. Minister be pleased to state: (c) The known deposits in Rajasthan (a) what is the number of Pakistanis alone are estimated to last for a period that have so far been found to have of 60 years. crossed the border into Rajasthan from Bahawalpur area; (d) The suitability of other gypsum deposits, both in Rajasthan and other (b) the number of such of them as parts of India, is being investigated. were sent back to Pakistan after being (e) Government have had reports found out] and that some Gypsum is being burnt and (c) the number of such of them as used for building purposes. have been tried and convicted for violating passport laws? (f) The important deposits in Rajasthan are being leased out by the The Prime Minister (Shri Jawaliar- Rajasthan Government to the Sindri lal Nehru): (a) Till the end of Febru Fertilizers and Chemicals Limited and ary. 462 Pakistanis were apprehended this will put a stop to their wasteful by the border and district police for use, illegal entry into India. (g) Cement factories use high grade (b) and (c). Information has been gypsum from their own lea^e^holds, called for from the Government of but where the i^ypsum supplies are Rajasthan and will be laid on the made through the State agency, the Table of the House. supplies are confined to the lower CoNsnrunoN H ouse . grade of gypsum. 699. Shri M. L. Dwlvedi: Will the (h) No. Cement Factories usually Minister of Works, Housing and Sup • use g y p s u m . having a purity of 70 to ply be pleased to state: 80 per cent; as it is not economical to use apy lower grade gypsum. The need (a) the life, originally estimated, of for any special investigation has not the building known as the Constitution therefore arisen. House; (b) the costs and expenditure being I n s u l in (MANiTPAcrtJRE) incurred in the repair work of this house from year to year upto date; 697. Dr. Amin: (a) W ill the Minister (c) how long is the building ex* of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state whether it is possible to pected to survive; manufacture Insulin on a commercial (d) the depreciation percentage pei and economical scale in our country? year according to official estimates; and (b) Is it a fact that slaughter-houses (e) whether reduction in rent and are not proper]v organized for the other charges are made accnraingiy collection of pancreas glands Which from time to time? are essential raw materials for the The Minister of Works, Housing manufacture of Insulin? and Supply (Sardar Swaran Singh): (c) Is it a fact that Railways do not (a) Ten years. provide cold storage transportation (b) 1946-47 Rs. 54,910 facilities at economical rates for the movement of these glands? 1947-48 Rs. 46,565 (d) Is it a fact that the process for 1948-49 Rs. 27,042 the manufacture of Insulin is known 1949-50 Rs. 61.272 to some Indian pharmaceutical firms and that some firms actually manu 1950-51 Rs. 52,463 facture Insulin without any foreign 195152 Rs. 47.636 technical assistance? (c) 2 to 5 years with careful main • (e) Do Government propose to tenance. encourage the manufacture of Insulin (d) The manner in which Govern by private firms who are already ment maintain their works in this 1387 W ritten Answers 25 M A R C H 1953' Written Answers i 3«8
beh alf, does not allow for deprecktiDn India, Ministry of Law— Mem being taken into account. ber. (e) No, Sir. In view of the main 5. Dr. S. R. Sen, Economic and tenance expenditure inditred, reiiis Statistical Adviser to the Min cannot be reduced bn the basis oi \.be istry of Food and Aflricul- depreciated values of buildings. ture^Member. 6. Shri M. A. Mulky, Assistant CoMMODm Control Commiitee Economic Adviser to the 700. Shri Lakshman Singh Charak: Government of India—Secre- (a) Will the Minister pf Commerce and • tary. " ...... Industry be pleased to state whether (c) The Committee has so far exa Commodity Control Committee has mined representatives of 21 Sta'.e Gov be^n Set up by the Centra^ Govern ernments and of 40 Chambers of Com ment? : ’ merce and Trade Associations. (b) What are the terms of reference (d) No, Sir. of the Committee and the names of the Members of the Committee? R e c r u i t m e n t to p o s t s u n d e r t h e C e n t r a l W a t e r AND P o w e r (c) How inany States and Commer C o m m i s s i o n cial Institutes have been examined by 701. Shri M. S. Gnrupadaswamy; the Committee s6 far? Will the Minister of Irrigation and (d) Has any preliminary report Power be pleased to l^y on the Table be^n submitted by the Committee to of the House a statement supplying G6veniin6ntt ' • - the following information:— , (a) the minimum educational and The Minister of Commerce and technical qualifications for all Classes Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): n and III technical services and posts (a) Yes, Sir. under the Central Water and Power Commission for (b) The terms of reference cf the Committee are:— (i) direct recruitment, (ii) recruitrnent by promotion; and (1) to examine and review the work ing of—■ . (iii) recruitment by transfer of officers of other Central and (i} the : ‘Essential. Supplies (Tem- State Governments’ Depart -porary P 0wers>«Act,. 1946; ments; and (ii) the Supply and t^rices of Goocis (b) the procedure for making re cruitment for the services and posts Act, 1^5(J^ ' referred to in pdrt (a) above? (iii) the Drugs (Control) Art. 1950; The Deputy Minister of Irrigation . and the Control prders, and Notifira- and Power (Shri Hathi): A statement tionfi issued thereunder. i.s placed On the Table p f the House. t2) to make reconmiendations for [Placed in Library. See No. S-25/53.] tho revision or repeal- of any of the J ax^-;o^j tioAL " said Laws with a view to improving the existing systems of controls, and 70ii. Shri M. Islamuddin: Will the Minister of Production be pleased to (3) to streamline the^Control Orders state the amount of revenue derived and Notifications; from coal in the shape of cess, excise duty eicjjort duty and sales tkx levied The personnel of the Committee by the Centre during the years m o - ,51* and 1951-52? ' . ' '1. Shrr S: V. -Kri&hnartioorthy'Rao. The Minister of Production (Shri Deputy Chairman, Council of K. C. Reddy); , . . States— Chairman. • ; ' - ..... ' -19.50-61 1951-02, * 2. Shri M. P. Pai, I.C.S., Joint Sec retary to the Government of i ...... i , (rpvisional) IndU, Ministry of Production— (i). We]fara,C!eflSv 1,05,27413 . 9,274.4659 Member. • (rf) Cess = 217;»,52 2,60,fl67 3..5hri.L. K. Jha, I.C.S,, Joint Sec (iii) .Stowing E:^pjae , , ' retary to the Government of buty. ' 51,14,752 ^68,80,570 India, Ministry of Commerce (iv) Export Hur- 2,0.31,735 l,74,,'i8,8^)6 and Industry— Member. ' Tcharge. • :..... ’ ' ” 4.. Shri B. N. Lokur. Deputy Sec, N,9 sales tax pri coal . is levied by ,the retary to the government of Central Government...... ' t3S9 W ritten Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Written Answers (3) Dr. Van Evere, Member of the D evelopment of Scheduled C astes National Research Council of, U,S.A. (Nomine^e of T.C,A.)-—Member. 703. Shri Veeraswamy: W ill the Mmister. of Planning be pleased to (4) Shri K.' C. Sharma, Plant Super slate: ... intendent, Sindri Fertilizers, and Chemi cals Limited, Sindri— Secretary. U) the projects -to be implemented Huider the Five Year Plan for social, The team has been selected in con economic and educational develop sultation with the T.C.A. and kiseping ment of the Scheduled Castes; and in view the necessity of the personnel (b ) the amount allotted for Madras having adequate technical qualifica State in this respect? tions and Experience in industrial, particularly fertilizer, production and Th^ Deputy Minister of Irrigation of the leader having wide administra and Power (Shri Hathi)l (a) A state tive experience combined with back ment, is laid on the Table of the ground knowledge of fertilizer produc House. [See Appendix VI, annexure tion. No. 55.] H imalayais^ Hx p f d it io n s (b) Rsr 4.67 crores. •Classified Lists of the C entral W a it r 706. Shri Ganpati Ram: WiU the AND P ower C om m issio n Prime Minister be pleased to state: 704. Shri M. S. Gurnpadaswamy: (a) the number of fo r e i^ expedi WiU the Minister of I^igation and tions that are coming to India to climb Power be . pleased to refer to the the Himalayan peaks and Mount answer given to my Unstarred Ques Everest; ' ' tion No, 76-7 .on. the 17th December, 1952 and state what steps Government (b) the number of persons in each, are taking to check irregularities in and the period of their mounting; the preparation of classified lists of staff of the Central Water and Power Cc) whether the Government of India Commission? have allocated any money to these The Deputy Minister of Irrigation * foreign expeditions to assist in their and Power (Shri Hathi): th e seniority effort; and • * ' ■ lists of the various categories of posts have been j>r^pared on the basis of the (d) whether any Indian expedition •orders issued by the Ministry of Home is also trying to conquer the Mount Aft airs and circulated to the staff for Everest and if so, the names of the objections if any. Final lists will be personnel, and the amount allocated prepared alter tonsidering' the objec for the same? tions.' . The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- T eam of O fficers to Std d y P rocesses of lal Nehru): (a) Four such expeditions ' F ertilisers P ro ductio n are proceeding to Himalayas as far as the. Government are aware. 705. Shri Sinhasan Singh: Will the Minister of Production be pleased to (b) The Japanese and British e.x- state: . psdition^ consist of fifteen and thirteen (a) the names of the three officers persons respectively: the Swiss expedi who have been sent to difTerent tion of 8 and the New Zealand eiipedi- countries for the purpose of studying tion of 4. The period of climbing in the development of. fertiliser produc each case is 3 to 4 months. tion and their special qualifications for the choice; and . , (c) No. . (137 ^Kether these officers belong to (d) Governriient have no Informa ■ the Executive side or belong to and tion. had special training in- fertiliser pro duction? ' : P enalties levied in R ehabilitaton C ircles The Minister of Production (Shri K. C. Reddy: (a> and (b) ( 1 ) Shri 707. Shri V. G. Deshpande: (a) Will ■ B. e. Mukharj*!, I'C.S., Manag’ing^ tJirec- the Minister of Works, H oo i^ g and tot; Sirtdri Fertilizer and Cheftiicals Supply be ‘ pleased to state whether Ltd., Sindri—Leader. there has been a “case iff the Rehabili • tation Circle in which the penalty was (2) Dr. A. Nagaraja Rao, Industrial levied by the Superintending Engineer Adviser, ‘ Ministry ' of Commerce and but was ordered by the Ministry to industry— Member...... be waived? i j9 i Written Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Written Answers
(b) Has any action been taken origin, imported for exhibition in India against the said Officer or Officers for from 1948 to 1952; and this wrongful levy of penalty? (b) the share of the United States (c) What are the cases in which of America in the total import?« penalty has been levied by the Superintending Engineer, Rehabilita The Minister of Commerce (Shri tion Circle in the years 1951-52 and Karmarkar): (a) A statement is laid 1952-53? on the Table of the House. [See Ap pendix VI, 'annexure No. 56.1 (d) Were the sites made available to the Contractors in all these cases Information in terms of number of stated in part (c) above at one time films imported is not available. Sta or at different times? tistics are maintained in terms of length of exposed film im p o r^ . (e) If ’“ at different times, will Government review all these cases? (b) The percentage share 'o f tl:ie as. (f) Has any circular been issued U.S.A. in the total imports is by the Ministry giving instructions in follows;— which cases the C.P.W.D. officers can 1948-49 55 per cent. levy penalty for delay in the execu tion of works? 1949-50 41 per cent. 1950-51 34 per cent. (g) What are the cases of the Re 51 per cent. habilitation Circle that required exten 1951-52 sion of time in the year 1952r-53? P urchase of P l a n t and M ac h in e r y b y (h) Has extension of time been D am odar V a l le y C or po ratio n given in all these cases stated in part 709. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: W ill the (g) above or some penalty has been Minister of Irrigation and Pdwer be levie^i? pleased to state: (i) If penalty has .been levied, are (a) the total amount, in rupees, of Government prepared to review these the plant and machinery purchased, or cases? ” * about to be purchased for the Damodar The Minister of Works, Uoosing Valley Corporation, inclusive of the and Supply (Sardar Swaran Singh): Bokaro Thermal Plant; and (a) Yes. (b) the country or countries Irom (b) Whe,ther any action has to be which such purchase has been made taken is under consideration. or is in contemplation? (c) A List of such cases is appended. The Deputy Minister of Irrigation (List I). \Placed in Library. See No. and Power (Shri Hathi): (a) The total S-26/53J . amount in rupees of the plant and machinery purchased and on order, in (d) Necessary information in this clusive of the Bokaro, Thermal Plant, behalf is contained in Column-4 of List is Rs. 2066:38 lakhs. I (appended). (e) Yes; if it is established that such (b) U.S.A., U.K., CJermany, Sweden, a review is necessary. France, Italy, Australia, Japan, Canada, Switzerland and India. (t ) No. LkiH T and F a n s to Q u a r t e r s o p C la s s (g) A list of such cases is appended. • ' . \V S e r v a n t s (List II). [Placed in Library. See No. S-26/53.] 710. Shri Kelappan: Will the Minis (h) The required information in this ter of Works, Housing and Supply be behalf in respect of each case is given pleased to,state whether .Government have any scheme to supply electric in List II (appended). light and fans to the quarters of peons and other low paid Government ser (i) Yes;- if it is established that such vants? a review is necessary. The Minister of Works,- Housing and I m po r t OF F o reign F ilm s Supply (Sardar Swaran Singh): There is a scheme to supply electric light but 708. Shri H. N. Mukerjee: W ill the not fans in these quarters. Minister of Commerce and Industry be pleased to state: T offee AND C hocolate (P rices) (a) the number of foreign films, 711. Shri Lakshman Singh Charak: specified according to the country of (a) Will the Minister of Commerce 1393 W ritten Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Written Answers 1394
aAd Industry be pleased to state why (c) , the prices of Toffee and Chocolate have increased exhorbitantly in India? Nu.aber of Year applications received (b) Have Government given any protection to these industries? 1951 6,112 (c) If so, what are the details of the 6,500 protection granted? 1952 1,866 (d) Are Government aware that the 1953 price of these commodities has gone up (up to 10th March, 1953) higher than what they were during the second world war? (d) No, Sir. The Minister of Commerce and (e) Does not arise. Industry (Shri T. T. Krishnamachari): (a) and (d). There has been no appre I m p o r t A p p l ic a t io n F orms ciable increase in the price of Toffee. The rise in the price of chocolate is 713. Shri C. E. Chowdary: (a) WiU due to increased cost of raw materials the Minister of Commerce and Industry since World War II. be pleased to state whether any com plaint was received in February, 1953 (b) The Chocolate Industry is pro in connection with refusal to sell Actual tected but the Toffee Industry is not. Users’ Import Application forms in the (c) (i) A Protective duty ar the rcite oflBce of the Deputy Controller of Im of 3(J per cent, ad valorem is leviable ports and Exports, Madras? on the import of Cocoa Powder and (b) Has any action been taken Chocolate, other than confectionery. against those responsible for this? (ii) Cocoabean, which is the main raw material for the manufacture of The Minister of Commerce (Shri Chocolate, is exempted from import Karmarkar): (a) Yes. Sir. duty. (b) Sale of Actual Users’ Applica I ssue of I ncome-tax V erification C er tifi - tion forms during the hours fixed for CATES AND EXEMPTION NUMBERS such sale was never upfused. The complaint related to the refusal to seli 712. Shri C. R. Chowdary: (a) Will R form after thm closing hour fixed for the Minister of Commerce and Indus the sale. The question of taking any try be pleased to state what is the action against any oflicer does not^ procedure adopted for issue of income- therefore, arise. tax verification certificate or exemption number by the Deputy Chief Controller R esearch in A. I. R. of Imports, Madras? (b) What time is required usually for 714. Shri Madiah Gowda: Will the the issue of such numbers? Minister of Information and Broad (c) How many applications for such casting be pleased to state: numbers were received during the (a) whether there is any arrange years, 1951, 1952 and 1953? ment for research in A.I.R.; and (d) Were any complaints against pre ferential treatment in the disposal of (b) if so, the amount of annual ex such applications received by the penditure for that purpose? Deputy Controller of Imports, Madras during 1951, 1952 and 1953? The Minister of Information an
D.D .T . F actory (d) The total expenditure on tra velling allowances amounted to 716. Dr. Amin: (a) Will the Minister Rs. 160,884. of Production be pleased to state what will be the production capacity of the (e ) For the present, it is proposed D.D.T. Factory to be set up in Delhi? to continue the various posts in the Planning Commission up to February, (b) Are there any other Indian firms, 1957. Futher continuation of the which are engaged in the manufacture posts on a permanent basis ov other of D.D.T. and if so, the names of such wise will be considered at the apipro- firms and their total manufacturing priate stage. capacity? (f) A statement is placed orr the The Minister of Production (Shri Table. [See Appendix VI, annexure K. C. Reddy): (a) 700 to 750 long tons No. 58.1 per year. Passport C heck-posts (b) No. The remaining part of the question does not arise. 718. Prof. D. C. Sharma: W ill the Preparation OF F ive Y e.^ P la n Prime Minister be pleased to state: (.Expenses) (a) the number of passport check- posts on the Indo-Pakistan border 717. Shri Lakshman Singjh Charak: between the two Punjabs; ^(a) Will the Minister of Planainif be 'pleased to state how much money has (b ) the strength of the staff at each been spent in preparing the Five-Year check-post with their designation; and Plan, both draft outline and the final one? (c) the number of persons who passed through these check-posts since (b) How many months did it take, the introduction of the passport sys to prepare this Plan? tem? (c) How many experts were consulted The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- in preparing the. Plan? lal Nehru): (a) Eight. (d) How much money was spent on (b)— touring in various parts of the coun try for collecting the data and other Cheokr Strength o f the StftlT relevant information? S.I. A.S.I. H.Cs. F.Cs. (e ) Is the staff working in the Plan ning Commission’s Secretariat liable to 1. Attari Road. 1 1 3 12 be made permanent and if so, when? 2. Attari Railway ( f ) What is the numl>er of Gazetted Station 1 and nch-Gazetted Officers employed in 3 . Raja Sansi 1 3 the Planning Commission on the techni 4. Khen: Karan. . . ■> cal and non-technical sides? 5. Kluilra. .. 3 The Deputy Minister of Irrigation ] 2 G and Power (Shri Hathi): (a) The 6. Huasainiwula. I total expenditure incurred from the 7. Pacca. .. 1 2 inception of the Commission until the 8, Hindu-MalKot .. 2 end of Noveaen^r. 1952 amounted to 6 0 33 R^. 27,43,984. . . i ' ■ T o t a l 4
The Mf&ister of Information and the Parliament, ,: the citizenship of Broadcasting (Dr. Keskat): Ca) 7 docu Indians in Pakistan cannot be deter mentary films on Education 20 on ' mined, Health released by the Films Pivision o f Government o f India have . beea, Sikkim: 25. shown in the Punjab, Nepal, Bhutan and Ceylon.—InioT- (b) Thes^-felms have been shown in mation is being collected and wiU be all the cities and other places of the placed on the Table of the House when Punjab wherever there is a rinema. available. In addition, there are about 13 mobile vans with the State Gtovemment which C e n tr al P u b lic W orks D epart-vients :show these films in the rural areas. 723. Sfcri T . t;. Diesh^ndet (a) Will the Minister of Works, Iloasingr and m iff Supply be pleased to state the names \9^oi of the various works under the Deve lopment Division of the Central Pub ^ ^^T^TFT ^ t>Mi lic Works Department that deal with earthwork and levelling which have been carried out and completed in the year 1952-53? 3fh: ^ (b) Tenders in respect of how many tt# «f)r of these works were called for on the basic of rates for earthwork 1 1 1 ex ^ ^ ? cavation? The Minister of Commerce (Shri (c) Tenders in respect of how many Karmarkar): A statement giving the of these works were called for on the required information is placed on the basis of rates for earthwork in fill- Table of the House. [See Appendix VI,- i»g? annexure No. 58—A ] (d) For how many of the works under parts (b) and (c) above final payments have been made*^ (e) Is it a fact that some of the works of which the rates are based on eartn- ^ w srsnsr work in excavation have been pa^'d as earthwork in filling? The Minister of Works, Housing: and Supply (Sardar Swaran Sin^h): (a) Levelling and earthwork in M ;cres 'TTfsR^JT, ^ r , '>T5R, of land lying north of Najaf Garh Road. Delhi has been coiripleted. Similar works in respect of 75 acres at Motinagar and 100 acres at Ramesh # ? Nagar are in hand. The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- (b) For all. lal Nehru): The number of Indian (c) None. nationals serving in 1952 under the (d) None. Governments of the undermentioned countries is as follov/s; (e; No. Afghanistan: 5. AC£T0N£ Burma .—The exact figures are not 724. Shri C. R. Narasirahan: (a) available. There were about 3,000 Will the Minister of Commerce and Indians employed in various depart Industry be pleased to state what is ments of the Government of Burma and the quantity and value of Acetone about 8,300 in Burma Railways. Most imported into India during ihe^ last o f these men have been discharged as three years? * a result of the Nationalisation policy of the Government of Burma. (b) Is Acetone manufactured in India by any plant owned by the China,—None Government of India? Pakistan.—^No definite information (c) If so, what is the value and is possible at present. Until the pro quantity of such manufacture since posed Bill on Citizenship is passed in the inception of the plant? 1399 W ritten Answers 25 M A R C H 1953 Written Answers 1400 The Minister of Commerce and (b) whether it is a fact that every Industry Demand No. 13— ^Defence Services, Etiective— ^Navy [Cols. 2810— ^2842] Demand No. 14— Defence Serviocs, Effective— ^Air Force [Cols 2810—2842] Demand No. 15— Defence Services, Non-Effective Charges [Cols. 2810— ^2842 Demand No. 16— Miscellaneous Expenditure under the Ministry of Defence [Cols. 2810— 2842] < Demand No. 114— Defence Capial Outlay [Cols. 2810— 2842] .Motion re Detenti in of three Members and Others [Cols. 2842— 2864] 'Discussion re Situation in Jammu [Cols. 2864— 2906] ^ D«bat»» Sodion Ubmry Suikfing Koom No. Ff> \J25 Block'G' :* tC . Wo___ ------PARLIAMENTARY D E B ^ (Part II—^Proceedings other than Questions |ind Answers) OFFICIAL REPORT 2803 2804 HOUSE OF THE PEOPLE to these, the Government have arrived at certain decisions. ^ Wednesday, 25th March, 1953 The basic considerations Which have to be kept in view are that an The House met at Two of the flock. Andhra State has to be established [Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chairl and that it should consist of the Teiu- gu speaking areas of the present Mad- QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ras State. Further that the City of Madras is not to be included in the (See Part I) proposed Andhra State. The Andhri State, therefore, is to consist of whal might be called the undisputed Telugu 3-20 P.M. speaking areas of the present Madras State. At a subsequent stage, as 1 STATEMENT RE FORMATION OF shall indicate later, a Boundary Com- ANDHRA STATE mission or Commissions may have tc The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar- be appointed to determine the exact lal Nehru) I.. On December 19, 1952, I boundaries of this new State. As thia informed this House that the Govern- investigation might involve some de- ment of India had decided to estab- lay, it is desirable that the Stat« lish an Andhra State, consisting of should «be constituted as early as pos- the Telugu speakirtg areas of the pre- sible on the basis of existing bound- sent Madras State, but not including aries of the districts except, in one the City of Madras, and that the Gov- case, where the boundary might be ac- ernment were appointing Mr. Justice cording to taluqs. K. N. Wanchoo, Chief Justice of the Rajasthan High Court, lo consider ^ d The Andhra State will consiyt of report on the financial and other im- the following eleven districts: (1) Sri- plications of this decision and the kakulam, (2) Visakhapatnam, (3) East Godavari, (4) West Godavari, (5) questions to be considered in imple- Krishna, (6) Guntur, (7) Nellore, (8) menting it. Kurnool. (9) Anantapur, (10) Cudda- Mr. Justice Wanchoo conducted this pah and (11) Chittoor. It will also con- enquiry and presented his report on the sist of a part of Bellary district as 7th February. 1953. A copy of this re- I shall indicate later. port is placed on the Table of the House. [Placed in Library, See No. IV- It is clear that the capital of the C.C. (149)] Other copies will be avail- Andhra State has to be in the terri able to Members. Government have tory of the new State. The Grovernmen given the most careful consideration are of opinion that the site of thi to Mr. Justice Wanchoo’s report and capital should be determined by th< to the other matters connected with Andhra people themselves througJ the establishment of the Andhra State. their Legislative Assembly. Some of these matters, more especial- ly those relating to financial implica- tions and the effect on the services, re- A question has arisen about tb quire further detailed consideration temporary capital of the Andhra Stab which they are receiving. There are, till adequate arrangements are made however, certain questions of a politi- for the functioning of the permanent cal nature, which have given rise to capital. It has been suggested that some controversy, and which have to there is some convenience in this tem- be decided immediately so that fur- porary capital being located in the ther progress may be made. In regard City of Madras. While it is true that 557 P.S.D. 2806 2805 Statement of formation 25 MARCH 1953 of Andhra State [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] certain conveniences in regard to ac- It should be clearly understood that commodation etc., will result from this any proposals involving financial assis- temporary location in the City of Mad- tance from the Central Government ras, there are important and, in the would require the approval of the Cen- opinion of the Governnnent, over-riding tral Government and would depend considerations against this proposal. It upon the capacity of the Central Gov- is desirable that, ri^ht from the in- ernment to render help. Therefore, any auguration of the new State, it should decision about the capital or any other have its politicai headquarters in the mauer involving financial assistance State itself and should be enabled to would require the approval of the Cen- function as a complete unit, freely and tral Government in so far as that fi- unhampered by any other considera- nancial assistance is concerned. tions. The full integration and progress of the new State will thus be facilita- ted and any possible friction and com- The Andhra Legislature, after the plications, which might arise from the inauguration of the new State, should tenjporary location of the capital in decide upon, the location of the High the territory of another State, would be Court within the territory of the new avoided. The location of the political Sta^. Till such decision is taken, the capital of the Andhra State in Andhra present Madras High Court will conti- territory, right from the commence- nue to function also as the High Court ment, will also result in the develop- of the Andhra State. During this ment of normal and cooperative re- period, certain necessary conventions lations between the new State and the may be observed in regard to the ad- residuary State. ministrative side of the High Court relating to Andhra as well as such other matters as may be considered necessary. The Government, therefore, are of opinion that the temporary capital of the Andhra State should be located in The Legislature of the Andhra State Andhra territory. This means that the will consist of one Chamber only, that seat of the Governor, the Ministers is, the Leegislative Assembly, and there and the Legislature should be located will .be no second Chamber. As regards in the territory of the new Andhra the residuary State of Madras, it State. The decision as to the site of should be left to that State to decide this temporary capital should be left the future of its second Chamber. to the Andhra people themselves and may be taken by the Andhra Members The Members elected to the present of the Madras Legislature, who are Madras Legislative Assembly from the likely, at a later stage, to form the areas which would form part of the Legislative Assembly of the new new Andhra State, should constitute, State. This decision should toe Indicat- to begin with, the new Andhra State ed to the Government of India by t)ie Legislative Assembly. beginning of July 195 i. The case of Bellary district has to be While the capital of the State should considered specially and it cannot be be located within the territory of the treated as a single unit for attachment new State ^^om the date of the inau- to any State. It ih bilingual and a con- guration of that State, it is not neces- siderable part of it has a clear majori- sary that all the offices pertaining to ty of Kannada speaking people. There the Andhra State should also be trans- are at present ten taluqs In this dis- ferred to the territory of the new State trict. Six of these taluqs, namely, Har- from that date. Some offices of the ^ panahalli, Hadagalli, Hospet North, Andhra State might continue to be lo- Hospet South, Sandur, and Siruguppa, cated in the City of Madras till ar- have, each of them, a very large Kan- rangements are made for their trans- nada speaking population. Three tal- fer to Andhra territory. The Govern- tiq«, namely, Adoni, Alur, and Raya- ment are assured that the residuary drug, have each a large majority of State of Madras will malqe every Telugu speaking peoole. The remain- effort to accommodate such offices. ing taluQ of Bellary has a very mixed population and there are certain other factors also to be considered. The Go* The new Andhra State will be Inau- vernment have, therefore, come to the gurated In October 1, 1953. which is conclusion that the three taluqg of coisMerec^ a suitable and convenient Adoni. Alur and Rayadnig should form date for this purpose. part of the new Andhra State and ♦he ^807 Statement re formation 25 MARCH 1953 Papert toid on the Taple 2808 SIX Kannada speaking taluqs, men- Parliament. Before the introduction ot tioned previously should form part of such legislation, the views of the State the Mysore State. In regard to Bellary Legislatures concerned will be obtain- taluq, Government propose to consider ed, as required under article 3 of the ' Ine matter further and come to a deci- Constitution. sion later. Government earnestly trust that the One part of the Tungabhadra Pro- creation of this new State, so long de- ject is situated in Hospet North taluq. sired by the people of Andhra, will The other part of it is in Hyderabad take place in a spirit of friendly co- State. That part of the project in Hos- pet North taluq will thus be in Mysore operation between all the people con- State after the establishment of the cerned, so tiiat the State mi^ht start Andhra State. This great project will under the most favourable auspices feed not only those areas which go to and lead to the progress and happi- the Mysore State but also some areas in ness of its people. The formation of Andhra State. Both these States will the new State should not and will not he especially interested in this scheme. come in the way of the cultural life Special arrangements should, there- of the City of Madras in which the fore, ,be made for the joint control and people of Andhra have had such a supervision of the project by the State great share. Full assurances have <;oncerned in cooperation with the already been given, by those in a post- Central Government. The Ministry of tion to give them, that educational, Irrigation and Power will, in consul- hospital and other facilities will con- tation with the Ministry of Finance, tinue to be open to the Andhras in the Planning Commission and the Madras City. States concerned, work out the neces- sary financial and pther arrangements I earnestly hope that the controver- and prepare a scheme for the purpose. sy, which has accompanied this issue Till the date of inauguration of the of the formation of the Andhra State, new State, the Madras Government will now end and our united efforts will continue the work on the Tunga- will be directed to the successful es- bhadra Project, as before. From the 1st tablishment and working of this State. October, the States concerned will Shri Raffhuramalah (Tenali): May I manage it with the assistance of the ask for clarification on certain points, Central Government, in accordance Sir? with the scheme drawn up iherefor. It is desirable that the work on the Mr. Deputy-Speaker: No questions project should be continued under the are alloweii. present set-up till it is completed. A Boundary Commission or Commis- SIXTH REPORT OF PUBLIC AC- sions will be appointed some time after COUNTS COMMITTEE the establishment of the Andhra State to determine the exact boundaries of Shii B. Das (Jajpur-Keonjhar): I that State and to recommend such ad- beg to present the Sixth Report of the justments as may be considered neces- Public Accounts Committee on the sary in regard to the boundaries of Hirakud Dam Project. [Placed in that State with the residuary State of Library. See No. iv.0.0.(60).] Madras and the Mysore State. The question of services and the fi- nancial implications of the formation PAPERS LAID ON THE TABLE of the Andhra State will be considered separately later. As far as possi«ble, the D bviblopmbnt Councils (PROCBDirHAL) officers now serving in the Andhra Rules; Tariff Commission Report re ;area should continue. A committee of M etal Aminopheno-and Government senior officers of the present Madras basoli;tion thereon Government should, in consultation with an officer appointed by the Cen- The Minister of Commerce and In^ tral Government, consider the adjust- dustry (Sbri T. T. Krishnamacharl): ments that might be necessary bet- I beg to lay on the Table, under f^ub- ween the Andhra State and the resi- section (^) of section 30 of the Indust- duary State of Madras in respect of ries (Development and Regulation) the services. Act, 1951, a copy of the Development Councils (Procedu- Legislation to give effect to the de- ral, Rules, 1952, published in the Min- [Shri T. T. Krishnamachari] February, 1953. [Placed in Library. at a later stage I do not propose to See No. S-15/53J make a detailed speech while present- ing these estimates. I also beg to lay on the Table, a copy of each of the following papers, under sub-section (2) of section 16 of the TarifT Commission Act, 1951: SUPPLEMENTARY DEMANDS FOR- ^ GRANTS FOR 1952-53—PEPSU (i) Report of the Tariff Commission on the Reduction of Import Duty on The Minister of Finance (Shri C. Meta-Aminophenol used in the manu- D. Deshmukh): I present a statement facture of Para-Aminosalicylic Acid; showing Supplementary Demands for and Grants for expenditure of the Patiala (ii) Ministry of Commerce and In- and East Punjab States Union for dustry, Resolution No. 2(l)-T.B./52, the year 1952-53. [Placed in Library dated the 14th March, 1953. See No. IV. ,0. l(79e).J [Placed in Library. See No. IV.R.lla (24).] SUPPLEMENTARY DEMANDS FOR R e p o r t o f D a m o d a r V a l l e y C o r p o r a GRANTS FOR 1952-53 t i o n XTie Minifl^r of Finance (Shri C. The Deputy IMUnister of Irrigation D. Deshmukh): I present a Supple- and Power (Shri Hathi): I beg to lay mentary Statement of Expenditure of on the Table a copy of the Annual Re- the Central Government (excluding port of the Damodar Valley Corpora- Railways) for the year 1952-53. tion, Part ll, for 1950-51, under sub- [Placed in Library, See No. IV. O. I section (5) of section 45 of the Damo- (72f)] dar Valley Corporation Act, 1948. [Placed in Library. See No. IV.M.4 (8).] DEMANDS FOR GRANTS PEPSU BUDGET D b m a itd No . II— MiniHtry of Dofenee D e m a n d N o . T2— Defence ServM>efl, Pffey?^ The Minister of Finance (Shri C. t i VO— Arm y D. Deshmukh): 1 rise to present a statement of the estimated receipts D b m a n d No. 13- D'-fem-e Sorvioes, Effec and expenditure of the Patiala and t i v e — N a v y East Punja.b States Union for the year 1953-54. [Placed in Library, See No. D k m a n d No. 14— Dofanco Sorvioei>, Fffec- IV. O. l(7a)] tivii— Air Korco D e m a n d No. i5- -Def Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It is not a Party that there may not be much dis- question of reply. The guillotine has cussion. Not that the Rules do not to be applied at five o’clock. There- permit it; the Rules permit it. But he lore, without the reply the guillotine himself suggested that these things are will be applied. I do not think it is so small and the hon. the Prime Minis- possible. In Budget matters it is diffi- ter may do so. I am repeating what cult to do so. he said. But now he is taking excep- tion to it. Shri Frank Anthony: So far as the -Education Ministry was concerned, it Sardar Hukam Singh (Kapurthala- was done. It can be done. Otherwise, Bhatinda): The time for the other a whole lot of people who hoped to business should not be taken from talk on Defence will not have an op- tomorrow’. portunity. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Very well. We have decided. But if it is the will of the The Prime Minister and Leader House that we may put o/T the Ques- rot the House (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru): tion Hour... It might make some difference, of course, f do not mind. But it would up- Hon. Members: No. no. «et completely the programme for to- Col. Zaidi (Hardoi Distt.—North- morrow which is very important. We West cum Farrukhabad Distt.—East have to consider two or three very cum Shahjahanpur Distt.—South): If important things; and if we carry over the discussion is to finish at five till tomorrow today’s work, I do not o’clock, can there be a speech to- know what will happen to tomorrow’s morrow? work. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: It will be re- served only for the reply of the hon. Mr. Deputy-Speaker: We will sit till Minister. <‘ight today. The Minister of Defence Organisa- Shri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta North- tion (Shri Tyagi): At the very outset East) : As far as tomorrow is concerned, I should like to assure the House that we are voting Vote on Account and the intense interest shown by the hon. .ISupplementary Demands at very short Members in the Defence problems of notice, and actually the Finance Min- the country has not only helped me ister has said that we shall have a to educate myself in the task assign- later opportunity of going into the ed to me but it has also, I am confi- PEPSU Budget. ,So, tomorrow we do dent, heartened soliders in general. not object to the Prime Minister tak- The soldier is essentially a bundle of ing an hour, because it would give a emotions and he loves to be noticed greater opportunity to the Opposition and talked about. Parliament is unani- to discuss the Defencc budget today. mous In its desire that the soldiers, wherever they are, whether on tgiound, Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Sir, I am always happy and con- in your hands. I am not wholly ac- Tbeir trust is creat indeed. It quainted with tomorrow's orogramme. is difflcult normally to appreciate the I do not quite know. services a soldier renders to the nation. So long as there is peace, people are Mr. Deputy-Speaker: On Vote on apt to forget the value and worth of Account there will not be any discus- a soldier. It is only those who are ei- sion. Then there is the PEPSU Budget. ther abroad or on the border that The hon. the Prime Minister, if he is appreciate the blessings of the free- present and if there is no intonveni- dom of their mother country. I want ence to him. can reply tomorrow. to remind politicians that in the uiti- their standing army Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Well. Sir. which enables them to pursue their I shall defer it till tomorrow—immedi- ambitious plans for the welfare and ately after the Question Hour. I take progress of their people. I should like it? to take this opportunity and send our warmest greetings to every individual Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Yes. immedir soldier, wherever he is. ately after Question Hour. B®^ore I enter into the discussion of Shri H. N. Mukerjee: May I seek the various points raised in the House a clarification from you, Sir? You said .yesterday I, as Minister in charge of that on Vote on Account there will be their organisation, wish to ^ve one as- no discussion. But the Rules provide surance to all soldiers and officers en- for it. Only, it may not be very wide gaged in our Army. Navy and Air and comprehensive. Force ...... Shri U. M. Trivedi (Chittor): On a Mr. Deputy-Speaker: I only took it point ot order. Can a Minister read -from the Leader of the Communist out? 2813 « Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2ii4- Hon. Members: Oh, yes. 30 years under the leadership of Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru and have had the Sh^ Tyasi: ...... that their happi- experience of a number of bs^ttles with ness and the well-being of their people the foreigner, and they will bear me and property which they have left out when I say that it was not only behind shall ever remain as our fora- the intrinsic spirit of patriotism among most concern. them that enabled them to win their final battle for freedom but the great- I am proud of the opportunity the est factor was the goodwill of the Leader of the Nation has given me to people as a whole. Surely it was not come in the closest touch with those the lust for money or comforts that lakhs of souls who have pledged their millions of Congress volunteers under- bones and flesh to the cause of the went all types of deprivations but it nation’s' freedom. I know that I am was the universal praise and admira- taking a very great responsibility on tion for their deeds that they sustained my shoulders when 1 broadcast this such a long-drawn battle. overall assurance to all soldiers, sail- ors and airmen. I am confident that in Coming to the Defence Forces again,. this task I shall have the willing and I must at once congratulate the officers ready co-operation from all the State in charge of the Army, Navy and Air Governments and their officers who Force that immediately as India be- will extend to the members of our came Independent they rose to the oc- Defence Forces, both past and present, casion and adapted themselves prompt- their full sympathy and understanding ly to the changed circumstances during in dealing with their affairs. Time was the critical period of transition and when each member of the Army, after. Just imagine the number of Navy or Air Force was considered to British officers in command who had be the subject of a special concern of to leave suddenly, A number of gaps district and provincial authorities. was created not only by the British Now a feeling is growing among our officers who left but also quite a large m . n that they are not paid the same at- number of other efficient officers^ tention which they had under their alien under the influence of communal employers. It may be an unfortunate fury chose to go across the Jmoression, but the impre88i^>n is there. border and our Defence forces And I think it is time that we ags^’rp were suddenly left as if thev our boys, who are prepared to lay had paid a toll of a severe war. Alert down their lives in the defence ol the . to their duty, the Indian officers took countrTr when the cal] conuto be up the command and re-organised their free from the common anxieties and rank? with the result that by now we concerns in respect of their domestic have rebuilt a force the like of which land and property, it is difficult to find near about. In to reduce the expenditure of the Army certain respects we are recognised to- be the best Army. I need hardly emphasise the fact On the 1st of April 1948, there were that while the present day warfare has 244 British officers including six Gen- begun to bo based more and more on erals, 12 Brigadiers, 21 Colonels, 59 scientific advancement and mechani- Lt. Colonels and 146 Ma.1ors, etc., in sation of all weapons of war and am- * the Army. Today we have only 57 munition, the ultimate victory does still British officers—one Lt. General, two depend on the morale, physical nnd Majors General, six Brigadiers, four spiritual equipment, of the soldiers. A Colonels, nineteen Lt. Colonels and happy army always gives happy re- twenty-four Majors, etc. Of the 57 sults. For well-nigh a c e n tu ir, politi- British officers today, 52 are speciai- cians in India have, for political rea- lists holding technical appointments in sons. no doubt, decried the Rrmy ac engineering, signal, electrical and mercenary and have thereby divested mechanical engineering, technical de- the soldier of the little pride of his velopment or training establishments. uniform. My Friend, Shri Gopala Rao A planned programme of reduction asked me yesterday as to what steps has been drawn up according to which had been taken to change the charac- there would be no British officer left ter of the Army I think it is quite by 1955 except a few EME Techni- pertinent for Parliament to know what cians. change has been effected. An army's character mostly depends upon the In the Navy, of course, complete objectives for which it is enrolled, its Indianisation will take a longer time. mode of training and the manner in While in July 1949, the Royal Indian which its officers oondurf themselves. Na\T had 89 officers, we have only There is another factor which I con- 46 British officers today and only nine sider to be of greater imnortanre and in the Air Force. The above figures do it is the attitude of the oeople at Inrge not include civilians In the three ser- towards a soldier. There are many in vices who are employed in instruction- this House who have fought for about al and technical establishments. Their 2815 Demands for GranU 25 MARCH 1953 Derocnds for Grants 2«i6 number is as follows: Army 17, Navy troops. In terms of actual statestics what 10, and Air Force 54. we have done is as follows. We have built accommodation for 1386 married Some hon. Members have mentioned and unmarried officers, JCOs and other that the Navy and the Air Force have ranks and 2087 are under construc- not received the attention they deserve. tion. We have also raised the entitle- I woiUd invite attention of the House ment of married Havildars from one to the progressive increase in expendi- to two roomed quarters and of married ture on these two services year by JCOs from two to three roomed quar- year. The expenditure on the Air Forces ters. Electric lighting has been autho- in 1951-52 was about Rs. 15 crores. rised for all ranks. FCOs Havildars The estimated expenditure during the and other ranks are authorised free current year is about Rs. 19 crores and use of electric fans which have .already the next year’s budget is Rs. 25 crores. been installed and I propose to allow The House will agree that there has every year Rs. 4J crores for accommo- been substantial increase year by year. dation. Although the sum is inade- In the case of the Navy also, the ex- quate, considering how urgent other penditure has increased from year to needs are, we hope that with these year. In 1951-52 it was about Rs. 7J funds, we shall be able to break the crores and the current year’s expendi- back of the problem of accommoda- ture is likely to be about Rs. ten tion in 15 years or so. We have also crores. In the next year it is about under our consideration a scheme for ,Rs. eleven crores. The development of attracting private enterprise to supple- these two services is proceeding ac- ment Government funds and efforts in cording to plans. It will be appreciat- the direction of buildings. I^me State ed that the speed of development de- Governments have been able to pro- pends on the availability of trained mote building programmes under well personnel and equipment. While the considered schemes in this respect, and general attitude of hon. Members on I am examining if it is possible for both sides of the House has been one my Ministry to do the same. of admiration for the Defence Forces Health: We have increased the facili- and they are concerned about thefr ties for the health and recreation of well-being, and they have also ex- the personnel. Treatment of families pressed a desire that Members of the is also allowed at the station and sick Defence Forces should all feel conten- quarters and in M.I. Rooms. Treatment ted. I am surprised at some friends of families of air men in TB sanatori- who have indulged in heroics about um is also arranged. Our sickness hardships and conditions of service rate is the lowest in the World—below in the Army, about the salaries two per cent. and allowances and other ameni- Leave: It is uniform in all the thre ties of the personnel. ' I am afraid services. Thirty days casual leave that they have not yet attempted to and 60 days annual leave is being digest the information which my Min- istry has giveo them from year to year given as a rule. In addition, sick on the improvement in conditions leave is granted which counts as duty which we have already made. Although if spent in a recognised hospital. I admire the spirit which persuades Pensions: A feeling of hardship doe them to emphasise these questions. I subsist in the services on account or must warn my friends against the pension rates. The matter is under df»n?f»r whirb ^his tvn® o* for immediate consideration of Govern- the cause of the soldier might lead the ent. My hon. friend Mr. Jaipal Singh nation into. I would very much like mentioned that there w^js a wide dis- the soldier to retain the overall con- parity between civilian and service fidence that his sincere devotion to pensions in respect of certain catego- duty will always merit a fair consider- ries. I do not know how he arrived at ation of his general interest at the these figures but I do not want to hands of the Government. During the say much on the subject of service last five years, we achieved a suitable pensions as the whole question is now revision in the pay scales of the forces. under consideration of Government. We have provided them with some However. I would like to explain that accommodation. We have devised suita- a straightforward comparison between ble scnlps of accommodation. We have civilian and service pensions of other been trying to make their ration ranks is not possible The ci» jl rules, more scientific and bearing in lur instance, contemplate the civilian mind the resources available employee.s entering service at ages in the country, we have tried to give varying from 20 to 25 and complet- them a balanced diet. With two-thirds ing 25 to 30 years of permanent service of the forc«s coming to our share after before being placed on the retired list. partition, we got only one-third of The position is. however, entirely land and accommodation. The position difTerent In respect of .sepoys and is much easier now as we have built naiks. These—together with JCOs and appreciable accommodation for , our NCOs constitute more than 80 per cent. 2817 Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1958 Demands for Grants ^ 2818 rShri Tyagi] April to August 1952 on deepening of ol the soldiers in the Army—join the wells etc. service at an early age of 17 or 13 on Shri Raghavaiah (Ongole) : But, they a 15-year engagement. They thus re- have denied lands to exrservicemen. tire at the age of 35 or less, when Shri Tyagl: Three: After the earth- they are quite hale and hearty, and quake and fioods in Assam, troops were have had, besides the benefit of army employed to render aid in various ways training, in a number of cases, the to (he people affef ted. Minor repairs benefit of technical training. They can to roads were undertaken. The Air therefore, reasonably be expected to Force droned supplies wherever earn their living by their own efforts, necessary. Four: In the Srinagar the Army pension constituting some floods. Engineer units were employed financial aid. Mr. Jaipal Singh also in Kashmir in September-October suggested that the service personnel 1950 for repairing and maintaining should not be placed at a disadvan- bunds, etc. Five: Anti-locusr campaign »ge vis a vij the rcjO-nniL‘adatior:.' of in Rajasthan in 1951 as well as in 1952. Ihe Gadgil Committee. This question Six: Construction ot roads, canals and also is under the consideration of Go- bridges on a number of irrigation pro- vernment. but all that I can say at this jects in Punjab. Seven: Helped in the stage is that in respect of the overall Beas bridge project. Eight: Helped in pensionary benefit to the soldiers, it the Assam Rail link project. Nine: will be my endeavour to see that they They are still constructing certain are treated fairly and reasonably. startegic roads and air fields on the eastern frontier. Ten: Also whenever Socio-economic use of Defence there are big strikes like the one of Forces: Quite a lot has been said about transport service in Bombay, or dock- the socio-economic use of the Defence yards. our troops have gone to their Forces. There seems to be an impres- rescue. sion that the Defence Forces can undertake the work of national deve- Shri Nambiar (Mayuram): To break lopment without any detriment to the strike. their training during peace time. The Shri Tyagi; Of course, yes, to break example of China has often been the strikes when they are not needed. quoted in support ol this contention. My submission in this connection is An Hon. Member: Noble work. that the example of China Is not quite Shri Tyagi: Ammunition boots: My relevant because the Chinese Peoples hon. friend Mr. Patnaik mentioned Liberation Army is not a small force yesterday that ammunition boots were like ours. When you have an Army purchased from a British firm and were Just enough for your defence require- not manufactured in the Ordnance ments. you cannot afford to detract it factories. I have enquired into the from its main task of defending the matter, and I am informed that ten- country. Training itself is a continu- ders were invited for the supply of ous affair. It is a different matter if ammunition boots and the lowest ten- you have resorted to a large scale der was accepted. In the Ordnance conscription. Even in China where they Factories, we have no special machines have a large army, it is laid down which could manufacture ammunition In article 24 of the Common Pro- boots. gramme of the Chinese Peoples Poli- tical Consultative Conference: Revolvers and small arms: Mr. Pat- naik also mentioned about the manu- “The Armed Forces of the facture of rifles and guns for civilian Peoples Republic of China shall use. Long ago, when I was in the Fi- during peace time systematically nance Ministry, I had suggested that take part in agricultural and in- our Ordnance factories should take dustrial production to assist in up the manufacture of small arms for national construction work on the civil use. They have sent me a sample condition of not hindering military of a rifle which I hope will be liked both task.” for quality and price by the people. I can assure the hon. Member that this point is already receiving Gov- Having the same caution in mind, ernment’s attention. The factory is now wherever it was possible, our armies getting ready for manufacturing small have also come forward with hatchet arms for the use of the ppblic. and spades. I would give a few in- stances. One: Wherever there is land My hon. friend Mr. Gadgil suggested available, soldiers are required to grow that we should draw up a plan where- foodgrains. The total area under such by in the time of emergency private cultivation is 7500 acres and last year industries might switch on for manu- the produce was 4000 tons. Two: facture of defence needs. I think my Troops were emiHoyed in the Rayala- Ministry already has some such plans seema and the Tamllnad. Madras xroxn to look further into this question. 38i9 Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2820 My hon. friend Mr. Girraj Saran knows that these funds were not to Singh, who has good experience of the be spent all at once. They were to be Air Force, impressed me to be deeply spread over 30 years. If my friend has biassed by the patriotic instinct >of something more to say, I Will be glad strengtheriiAg defence. I thank him to make further enquiries in the for his speech and for his enthusiasm. matter. I have noted a number of points out He also wanted to know ^s to what of his speech. My colleague Mr. Maji- we mean by Rs. 43 Lakhs for hire of thfia has already replied in detail to transport. Out of this Rs. 43 lakhs, the question of Sealands which he and about Rs. 16 lakhs or so were spent Mr. Jaipal Singh had raised. Mr. Gir- on porters and ponies engaged in raj Saran Singh also pressed that train- Kashmir and the rest is the hire of ing in Air raid precautions should be motor transport in East, West and given to the public at large. I am South Comnjands. Here again, th.ere is afraid it would create unnecessary ' some element of transport of goods bet- alarm in the public mind. I think, ' ween Jammu and Kashmir. It is situated a^ we are, today, there is the sometimes cheaper to hire motor trans- least dangef of any power trying to port than to use our own precious trespass our skies. vehicles. Mr. Gopala Rao objected to our A demand has been made that all standing by our past undertaking to young men and women should be given pay pensions to those British officers compjulsory military training, I wish it who have retired from service. I reg- could be possible. But, as the House ret that I do not see eye to eye with well knows, our finances would not him in the assessment of moral value. permit such an ambitious enterprise. We have, however, given enough en- He also said that our big ships were couragement to the organisation of ^ent to the United Kingdom for repairs. the National Cadet Corps which con- It will be enough for me to say that sists of three main wings, viz., the his information is incorrect. Junior Division, the Senior Division and the Girls Division. The present 4 P.M. strength of the Corps is 2,500 officers Then, about Air squadrons. Lest and about 78.000 cadets. The Central some foreigner might believe Mr. Government bears expenditure on the Gopala Rao that we have only one training staflf and the supervisory or squadron of Air Fotce, I hurry to con- ganization. and also provides the tradict him. But it does not mean equipment. Uniforms and other things we provided by the State Government. enough provocation to me to be drawn They bear the cost of the Uniforms into giving out the exact .number of our and the running expenditure. Our Air Force squadrons. It will suffice to policy is to increase the size of the say that there are many more than National Cadet Corpg as funds become what my friend expects. available. Some State Governments are Shri Frank Anthony: That they air- very keen on developing the organi- ready know. The Communists must zation and are prepared to find addi- know. tional money, while other States are finding it difficult to put in more Shri Tyagi: Shri Alva read over the money in this direction. So that our comments of President Roosevelt about auxiliary reserves may not be limited the utility of small ships. He will be to urban areas, we have started an- pleased to know that ours are mostly other experimental scheme which we small ships. He also objected to our have named as the National Youth buying old British ships. When the Movement. My hon, colleague, market for new ships is closed alto- Shri Satish Chandra, is taking gether, we have to resort to old ones, a keen interest in this organi- but before we took any, we thorough- sation. It has been started in ly examined its seaworthiness. He will certain rural schools where young be pleased to know that we are now boys take to mass drill and physical going in for brand new ships. Smaller training etc. A cheao uniform costing ships are manufactured in the Visakha- less than rupees ten only has been patnam Shipyard. He also mentioned provided, generally at the cost of the about tankers. I share his anxiety. Institutions and the movement is catch- The Ministry of Transport are already ing imagination. Personally. I am of considering to go in for three iankers the view that it would perhaps be and my Ministry is also negotiating better if the educational authorItie« for one which we will soon have in could agree to enforce some elementary our possession. rules of military discipline in all edu- cational institutions. It would then My enthusiastic friend Shri Jaipal create a general atmosphere of dis- Singh made mention of Post-war Re- cipline in the country jand raiie the construction Fund. I wonder if he also morale of the people. 2821 Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants . 2S22 IShri Tyagi) Shri Patnaik laid stress on creating to be faced. Not only is it. my inten- auxiliiary reserves. I am afraid the tion to minimise retrenchment of commitments of the Five Year Plan labour in ordnance factories if possible, wnich my hon. colleague to my left, but I mean to ensure that this labour the Finance Minister, has already works with maximum efficiency, and undcrtanken would not permit any as a disciplined force. The importance Iresh commitments. As soon as the of such a disciplined labour force for political situation eases down, perhaps defence production so as to secure we may be able to make substantial maximum efficiency and economy can- savings from the Defence budget not be over-emphasized, and for this which could then be diverted to these purpose. Government may have to fresh pursuits. My hon. friend Shri consider how faj- such labour can .be Patnaik is already on the Central Ad- allowed to be exposed to various types visory Committee for the Territorial of political exploitation. Army. I shall always look forward to his advice in the matter. Finally, in regard to defence pro- duction. I would only add that our I P a n d it T h a k u r Das B h a r g a v a in the speed is sometimes slowed down by Chair] tile fact that civil production in the country is not yet sufficiently advance*^ Turning now to defence industries, ed to produce all the basic materials, I am glad to observe the interest components and semi-manufactured shown by the House in this subject. parts which are required to complete There is no difference at all between defence production. From this point of the Government and the critics as to view it has been our constant aim to the objective of producing all our de- expand civil production in directions equipment in the country as quickly which will be helpful also to meet the as possible. Our achievements in this defence requirements of the country direction, which have not been publi- in an emergency. I think I have amply cised for obvious reasons, have been dealt with the points raised by Kaka- by no means negligible. Since 1948, saheb Gadgil and other Members our production for defence in our ord- nance factories has increased in value about self-sufficiency of defence re- from Rs. 8.3 crores to Rs. 27.5 crores. quirements. Over sixty new items including vari- ous types of ammunition, fuses, gre- nades etc.. have been developed, and Now, I come to economy. During the 40 more are under development The last two to three years, various pro- speed of progress in this direction has posals have been considered for effect- been quite gratifying, and will increase ing economy in defence expenditure. further. We have succeeded in train- In December, 1951. Government ap- ing more personnel, and they have pointed a Committee to explore the pos- gained more experience. In fact it is . sibilities of cconomy by re-organisation because the ordnance factories have of the Defence Forces without affect- been so successful in meeting many of ing their efficiency. The Committee the requirements of the services submitted its interim report in April during the last three or four years 1952. The recommendations were exa- that soinf» question of retrenchment of mined .by our late lamented Defence labour has now arisen Minister in consultation with the Ser- vice Chiefs and the Financial Advisor, and some decisions were taken. It will On this question. I would say that take some time before the decisions I am starting a drive for the maxi- give their full cffects. Here I am re- mum utilization of the rapacity of our minded of the liberties which T was far*torir« whioh is surolus to immedi- taking till late as Minister of Revenue ate requirements for the pro- and Expenditure In my enthusiasm duct inrl of J5oods for other Departments to reduce the expenditure of the Army. of Gnvornment. and even for the civil I had once remarked on a file that T indu.stry. Tn thjp way. I hope that it would rather disembowel myself than will bo possiblo for to absonb a affree to such a huge expenditure. It greater proportion of our labour is an irony of fate that I am now ex- which might otherwise have become nected to swallow my remarks and surplus But if. even after these meas- face the realities of the situation. I ures. Rome labour remains surplus crin assure this House that in .spite of whether in ordnance factories or in the chanero of mv room from North to ordnance depots, the Government can- South Blo<^k. I shall make my best not afford to go on paying Idle time, efforts to effect economies without re- and the unpleasant necessity may have ducing the effectiveness of the Armed 2823 Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2824 Forces. The total saving which has been his own Ministry’s publications. On agree [Shri Nambiar] mercenary army, then boast about the But I shall give you the facts. The food and clothing you give. It is ab- familiy quarters oif naival ratings in solutely your duty to feed them. They Bom.bay are located 15 miles oft, with- have come some 2000 to 3000 miles out any transport. In lAF Station, Jul- away from their homes and are serv- lundur, family quaters are located 16 ing in distant places, and do you want miles off from camp, without any them to pay for their rations from transport. In Signal Centre, Jubbul- their own pay of Rs. 25? You claim po^re, men live in asbestos sheds that ‘We are paying them, we are feed- with uncemented flooring. At Santa ing them, and we are giving them Cruz, Bombay, married quarters are ciu.hos’. 1 ai;k you: In wh^t country are just thatched huts condemned by ra^oins included in» the pay? In no M.E.S. At Palam Delhi, there is one country is it like that. So let us noi latrin for 15 to 20 families. That is the contuse the people saying this. Pay is position of the quarters of the airmen .diflernet from allowance, and ration here. It is only a few miles away from allowance is different. Do not confuse here, and let Sardar Majithia go there it. This is the real situation. The analy- and see what is the position. sis of your own figures shows that the ordinary O. R. in the army gets only So far as medical aid and materni- thirteen times less than an officer ty lacilitits are concerned, the medi- on an average. That is an officer is paia cal aid given is such that no arn^ thirteen times more than an O. R. He man under normal circumstances will starts with a pay of Rs. 350, ending go to the military hospital. For fami- with Rs. 3000. Sardar Majithia disput- lies of the O.R.'s, there is nothing ed the point saying? Where does the like a maternity air for them. Several army officer get Rs. 3000?’ Let deaths have been reported. In family open his eyes and go through these wards of Poona Militaxy Hospital, books, and he will see that. children are kept in chains, ana pa- rents are not allowed to go there. The Deputy Minister ol Dcfcnce (Sardar Majithia); 1 never said that. Sardar Majithia: Tl;iat is not a fact, I said that these officers start off at a Sir. very much lower scale. It is only the higher ranks that get more. SGiri Nambiar: Many more things you are going to hear. With regard to Shri Nambiar: You have stated that, the working hours, there is nothing and it is there on record. Let him read like fixed hours of duty. They are it again. So what 1 say is let us not asked to work continuously for days ronfuse the issue. The army personnel and nights together. Whenever an would help the country better, if they armyman understands that an officer are weU looked after, and if there Is or a Minister is coming there for a contentment among them. Let not hon. visit, he is very much afraid of it, Members think that we are grievanco- because he will have to undergo all mongering here in order to create a sorts of parades. So he will only curse situation. There is the situation al- the Minister who goes there^ and say . ready created, which is there. ‘Let him not come*. About their food, the less said the With regard to the security of ser- bettef. They are given the worst quali- vice. I can say that for no reason ty of food. The contractors and cer- whatsoever, for flimsy reasons, they tain corrupt officers are minting are discharged from service. Yester- money out of these rations. Let the day I told Mr. Tyagi that there are in- Government understand this. There is stances of discharge for the slightest no use of forgetting it or bypassing reason. I have got a case here. I have it, for it is a reality. There are certain got a letter from my friend from mess committees, but these so-called Bangalore. It reads thus: mess committees never function, and -even if they meet, no armyman is “AC Narayan Kutty, Driver allowed to raise his finger against Motor Transport of Training Com- the mess management. If he does so, mand, lAF Bangalore, was dis- he is punished and victimised. I can charged sometime in January 1953 quote to you several cases, but un- for the simple reason that he met fortunately I have not got the time to Anandan Nambiar, MP from do so. Tamilnad”. As for the quarters, it Is said that Here is another instance, on the they are given good accommodation. same matter. 2827 Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2818 Shri G. P. Sinha (Palamau cum The relation between the officer and- Hazaribagh cum Ranchi): On appoint the OR, I have submit, is not very of order, Sir. I would like to know good at all. It is far from satisfactory. whether he is his political friend or The O.Rs. are treated by the offences as personal friend. slaves. I do not mean that every officer is bad, but 1 say a large num,ber of Shri Nambiar: A rule of terror and officers are still of the old bureaucra- victimization is let ioose inside the tic type and they are followinjg the Armed Forces which has sent a wave same tradition. II will be ridiculous- ^ of alarm among the ranks leading to to see that an officer's wife will not their demoralization, and a sense of mix with an OR’s wife. That is the insecurity prevails. All the left parties sort of separation. That is the sort of have been specifically notified as sub- relationship between the OR and the versive. “A s:;rvin:i personnel was Officer. Such being the case, I do not , sackecl because he dared to meet ^now how this Army is going to be Anandan Nambiar MP—a typical ex- an army with morale. I ain. all for ample of witch-hunt.” . having a good army with a better morale. But that morale is not there Men have been forced to make state- and something must be done. ments against themselves under torture. Men complaining about officers using abusive language I am finishing Sir. I have to submit were hauled up on charges the following programme to improve’ of being disrespectful, and disobedi- morale: ent to omcers. Men have been discharg- ed from the services without being given any reason, without being (1) An Inquiry Commission compos- ,given a chance to prove their Inno- ed of all sections of this House should cence before a properly constituted be set up to go into the living and ser- court. vice conditions of our army men. These are the facts, Sir. I have taken (2) Security of service—proper de- only eight minutes. fence in enquiries—the present set- Mr. Chairmaii: Ten minutes. up of court-martials should be radi- Shri Nambiar: I am taking the ap- cally altered. portioned time of my Group. ^ Mr. Ghairmaii; Tftere is no question (3) Change of ruies of pensions, of apportionment per speaker. The ap- Provident Fund, Gratuity, Release' portionment is, I should say, on an benefits and other allowances. over-all view of the matter and does (4) Abolition of the present Pay not mean that every Member can Code rules—Guarantee of reasonable claim that he is entitled to so many pay and allowances. minutes. I want to see that at least three other Members speak. There is (5) Regular and periodical promo- now time only for three Members. I tions—downgrading to be stopped— rang the bell after ten minutes. the question of the downgrading of 4000 Havl-Clerks to be review^. Shri Nambiar: I have said...... (6) Total daily working hours to be* Mr. OGiairmaii: Other Menibers will not more than eight hours. have to speak. They will not be able to speak. I will allow the hon. Mem- (7) Accommodation to be improved ber two minutes more. —together with family quarters and Shri Nambiar: About, discipline and proper facilities to the family mem- punishment much is stated. I can say bers. that there are instances where within 24 hours the men concerned were re- (8) Civic rig h ts and proper demo- moved frbm the barracks without giv- cratic functions of the welfare com- ing them any opportunity to argue the mittees, mess committees etc. case before a court martial. The fo- called court martial they have is not (9) Radical change of the attitude* a court martial in the real sense of of the officers towards ORs—Officers the term and he is not given any misbehaving towards ORs should be chance to reply. He is treated to third- punished—sense of security to be In- degree methods. Even near the Parlia- stilled in the minds of 01^, and ment Building there was a recent case of a Havildar being beaten. I know the nO) Witoh-hunt and spying in the' case, and we brought it to the notice name of flghtilng subsersive activi- of this House also through a question. ties should be ended. .2829 DetncLnds for Gvants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2830 [Shri Nambiar] These are the ten points which I I respectfuly submit—I am sorry submit to the Ministry with the hope that the Prime Minister is not here— that our Army must be improved and that this House is the ultimate guar- something must be done, not with the dian of Defence. We have the right to hope that our Army must be disrupt- know a certain minimum of detail ed. and if the Prime Mipister thinks that Defence should not .be discussed in an Then, it is said that we on this side open House, then we should adjourn to are against a good Army. It is not so. arf in camera session. I think that civi- Uan consultation is absolutely vital, if Mr. Tyagi said yesterday that there we are not to continue the old pattern would be no retrenchment of the civi- and psychology and the old policy lians employed in Defence Establish- with regard to the Army. I know I ments. But you might have seen in am racing against time. But I respect- today’s papers that 5000 employees fully submit for the consideration of -are threatened to be retrenched. If he the Prime Minister that the whole is prepared to give me an assurance concept of Indian defence must ;that they will not be retrenched, I am change. In. the past, necessarily our prepared to accept it. defence was tied to British standards and the British concept of strategy. I have certain points to make about But I have an uncomfortable feeling the hill allowance to be given to ord- that our Defence Department still conti- nance employees. In the hill areas, es- nues to be tied to the British concept pecialy in Arvangadu in Madras of defence. I feel that the time has State, the hill allowance has to be come for a radical change. Our poli- increased and paid to all employees. cy must now be tied to Asiatic theo- The Acetone Plant at Arvangadu ries and must be suited to Asiatic should be fully utilized so that re- conditions. What is the British con- trenchment can be avoided. I am pre- cept of defence? Because there is an pared to give him a memorandum con- acute shortage of manpower in Brit- taining the grievances of the ordnance ain. the emphasis is less on men and depot staff and I hope that he will go more on equipment, because theirs is through it and see that their grie- a highly industrialised society. This is vances are redressed. also the concept of American defence —less emphasis on manpower, more Mr. Chairmaii; Mr. Frank Anthony, emphasis on equipment. But we can- I will request him to finish within the mot possibly emulate either the apportioned time. British or the American example. Let " Shri Frank Anthony: I feel that this us not talk glibly in this House or Defence debate has been largely un- outside of fire power. The pre-requi- real, The fault has not been ours. It site Of fire power is industrial power, 'has been due to the way in which the and until we have adequate industri- Defence estimates are usually presen- al power, there is no good people re- peating glib phrases and cliches ted to this House. about fire power. That does not mean This House has been asked to pass that we cannot build up an adequate a budget sum which comprises almost and effective defence machinery. We hiilf c^r total Budget, and yet in this can do it if we follow the Japanese, very brief statement that has been and the more recent Chinese, exam- ^supplied to us we have not been given ple. What have the Chinese people any real facts. I say this with all res- achieved in Korea? They had no air pect that this statement which has support. They had very little artillery. been supplied to the Members of this I was reading an article where it House constitutes little short of an was said that the Americans had flre insult to this House. I am sorry nei- power about ten times that of the ther the Prime Minister nor the De- British and 100 times that of the fence Minister is here, but this state- Chienese ‘gooks*, as they call them. Yet ment seems to be conceived in a spirit the 'gooks* without any air support, 'Of: “Well, why should we supply the without any artillery, not only stop- necessary information to the Mem- ped the Americans but they overran bers of Parliament?” After all, some them. Members of the Treasury Bench will trot out the usual hackneyed bogey And they did it by placing empha- -of secrecy and public interest and so sis on superiority in man-power, on on and the House will pass it. It may small arms and on manoeuvrability. have been conceived in an even more In this respect. I want to know whe- reprehensible spirit—^after all, the ther we are placing sufficient empha- majority of the Members of this sis on these aspects of defence which House are non-violent vegetarians suit us. whether there is sufficient ^ h o are not supposed to know any- emphasis on small arms. I am sorry , thing about Defence. that Mr. Tyagi is not here but this 3«3I Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2832 House has the right to know what Is to concentrate on small arms. If we, the small arms position in India. Are like the British, postpone expendi- we producing our own rifles, are wc ture on heavy ^quipmept, we can, I producing our own ammunition, are «say, effect economies of many crores we producing our own automatic in our Defence expenditure. weapons, are we producing our own With regard to the Air Force, I sub- hand-grenades? We have a right to mit that what has been not told us is know tills. And, if we are not produc- more important than what has been ing them, I want to know why we told us. Mr. Tyagi confirmed my sus- are not producing them. When picions. He refused to be drawn into I was a member oT the National stating how many squadrons we have Defence Council in 1944. I visited got. I do not understand this shroud the railway workshops and of secrecy. Even when the British they were turning out thousands were here they did not do so. When and thousands of shells and hand- Mr. Chandulal Trivedi was the De- grenades. In six months we were cap- fence Secretary he had no hesitation able of doing it. I visited Tatas. They in giving us an answer that we were turning out first class steel. But had target of ten squadrons, but that only because it was an Indian firm, we were moving very slowly towards the Australians, while they were pro- that target because we could not get ducing inferior steel were being asked the right type of youngmen coming to manufacture tank frames for the forward. Now when we are working Army but Tatas were not given the as an independent country, we cannot same facility. I want to know what get the necessary information. You the Small Arms position is. Is there will not tell us whether we still have any shortage of material, is there a a target of ten squadrons, whether it lack of necessary energy in the it is less or more, whether we can- country? I should like to know this. not get the necessary material, whe- ther it is so because we cannot get T»,ie Deputy Minister of Defence the necessary men. We have to know (Shri Satish Chandra): The position these things before we pass the bud- is very satisfactory. We have got sur- get of about Rs. 200 crores. plus stocks of small arms like rifles. We have produced them in large I want to know what kinds of quantities. planes we are using. There is a gen- eral feeling in this country that the Shri Frank Antiiony: This is vague. planes are somewhat obsolete; there Shri Satish Chandra: This is not is a feeling that our Air Force is only vague. Why the hQn. Member is so a token Air Force and. God forbid, much agitated over it? We are faced that if we are attacked by China they with the problem of retrenchment in will shoot our planes out of the skies the ordnance factories due to over- in 24 hours. We want to know this. production in some of ^these articles. This House is the supreme guardian Shri Frank Anthony: We want a of the defences of this country. We categorical reply and not general, have a right to know all these details, vague and unsatisfactory statements. as I said, before we pass this budget. I want to know from the Minister You have not told us anything real- whether the money that we are spend- ly about the Army. We read state- ing on heavy equipment is being pro- ments aibout the American and perly spent. There is a general feeling British Armies. They tell us how in this country that the tanks we are many units they have got. what is » buying, the aeroplanes we are buy- their strength and what their target ing, the heavy equipment we are is. You will not tell us anything. Why? buying is only second best or even Do you think that this disclosure of obsolete. Is obsolete equipment our strength will upset the balance of being bought only because we feel world power? I do not understand that there should be a complement of these things. How do you expect this heavy equipment. Are we following House blindly, without knowing whe- the Britilsh? Even today the British ther you have got a policy, to pass :overnment have cut down their de- the budget of Rs. 200 crores? What ?ence expenditure. Under what plea? is your policy? We have various types That if they produced their maxi- of commissions, the King'« Commis- mum of equipment this year, next sioned Officers, ICOs and others. Why year some of that equipment will be- have you got these “Kashmir Com- come obsolete. We have no fear that missioned Officers”? Why have you our equipment will become obsolete suddenly got this new t j ^ of officer? Tiext year. (Interruption.) Much of it You give them a Commission for one was probably obsolete before the end year. Only the unemployed or unem- of the last war. I want to know what ployable will come forward for these our policy is. I feel that in this rec- Commissions for one year; you are pect We could effect very great e^'o- getting these t3i>es into the officer tromies if the Government policy i<3 ranks of the Army. Only third class 2833 Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2834 (Shri Frank Anthony] people, Babus will come into your one remark was in bad taste. Whether he year Commission. You can shake was a Second Lieutenant or a Naik your head; I too can shake my head or a Lance-Naik it does not matter. more vigorously, which will lead to He has got what I value greatly no conclusion. sound^ common-sense Sardar Majithia: We have first class men in the Army. (ffw r — 5 # Shrl Frank Anthony: Then I would f J?5T ): W arTffT refer to the Territorial Army. 1 say we cannot attempt to reduce our ?fhr[nr ^Rfr^rr | % regular Army unless we are able to have adequate reserves. Our reserves are essentially synonymous with the ^ iTW arrr^ spf Teritorial Army. Once again, in this pamphlet you tell us nothing. As far f*r>m t I arm t t v t k - as I am aware in 1951. the target for the Teritorial Army was 130,000. It was a hopelessly inadequate and dan- gerously inadequate target. 130,000 smft t ^ SflTHT ijff people fgr a country like this. You have not told us whether the target f t aTRTT t r^T jt fixed in 1951 has yet been reached. I do not say that we should emulate #TT 3T#3ff ^ w . China. In 1951, according to an offici- lift irn.5fhr ^ # arTsr al statement. China had a regular Army of four million and a militia ^ 3??? fifiTT m 5«nt ^ i5?r n w t f TT «W8T fMrrr ^ f i r r n ^ ^tw r t f , ^ ^ ifiT t *P ^ iRT^nr ?T^ fti wnr ![*nt f irroftiT ^ i r m f V a w p «r w m ^ ^ ^ i v k ^ ^TT# ^ ^ wrvh^i$t®nrwIfv M rqnr a'TWT 4fiTg't?f ^ ^ ^ ff»rwtf T ^ > T f^ f # «r#cr ^VTT^iTTf^reWRI I JIT^fT ^ ^ t| t' I ^1T(T^T fsRT < JH? ^ ^ ^ *ft, ^ Jni: Mt «TfNVTT ^ ^ I 3nr%^#iTT^^t?T«r ?«Trt ^ ?r^err ^nn^ ^ ^ 11 jrafr 't k gfirom’-^nrar ^ «ft ?!Tnft 3ft ^ #f%?r ft)?: ^ ^ v rr v9t*t4 ^9| ?r*5rT^'Tr j % ?rrr ^ ’TT^j,**' 5*rr^ 4 ^ ?«nf »rnT f ^ 5 n r ^ ?(?r(t v t r itf?r *pnf *FS®TyV$RTT^ I ^ '«n«in 1^ ^ ^ t ^r^mrY wrvnc ^ ? T ^ ^ ^ ^ «ld ^ I ^ ^ ?R*T ^ wnr^ 5 ^ *TPT ^ ^HNR-"T^f ^TRT ♦li'StW felT ^ ^ ^ ^'TOT^*irftif?l<5^^ [ s ft KT?? w f? r] 5^T t, ^>ff ^ ^ # «pf ^ TT f«RT t, ^ t ^ ^3^ Sf^^fra 97S7R ^ JTTT^ f w w m ^rrfTTRT 'Tt^ ift I, ^ftfST ^ ^ ^ ^ W ^ ^WTT T^RT ^ sRifRTT # ^*nr tstt ^JTTt *pft n ’ w n r r «rr % s rftre ?TT f ^ 5 f i ^ , ? i w , 5 fl% wrf jf^SRT ?*TTft ?TT^T?: | imr jft^, ^ sf^ ffRT ^ ^ 3ft *ftr ^ t ^ ?i5t *flT trw 5ItW I w S T t4 ^ 5i= '^ 'R *ftw ^ >rf ^PR' Jrrr ^Ti^ jj^ I f% 15# ^ irjHT JIT 53^ arrn 5T^ arr ^ f n m t ^ f^JTRjr ^ ?»f^- ?w?rr, «ft '»imi ^ ?fT^ 111 I ftf T T % lrin^^^«lT7^W T^4Tt?3 ITTPfRT « f w R f t >nrr I 3?r ^ i | R i 2839 Demands for Grants 25 MARCH 1953 Demands for Grants 2840 ^ 11^ «rr ^ w f w r - ^ the USA financed and en- couraged Generar Chiang KaL- ^ ?rnT «ifrf «tt i jt? shek’s forces and he viewed this act of the USA as amounting to WFT ?f?!T I fR5RTT f % *1? helping a member State of the UN invade a friendly State. Mr. Bevan estimated that there ^ ^ irfvTPT 3n#, ^ were nearly 10,000 to 12,000 Kuo- . mintang troops in north-east, sn^ ^ rf^ , 5iTftr ^ Burma bordering Yunan province ^ I do not wish to go into all that. As the Mover proposed, it is a matter VT ^ ^ of the liberty of every individual in this country, for whom the Constitu- H Tft # JT? tion has provided a safeguard. You must uphold it. Democracy must not w ?T3?r # mean deprivation of the liberties of the people. Unfortunately more democratic forms came into plaj; liberties are more in jeopardy. Is the Constitution to be only on paper? Is it not to be enjeyed by ifae ^objects .2853 Motion re: 25 MARCH 1953 Detention of three 2854 ' Members and others [qfer 5 T ^ ^ srro 5rr, ^ t ? >WT 3Ti[ f w M «PT >F1 JTRT ^ I 4 ^ 1% «PR W ? R ¥ ^ ^RfT* ^ ?W5rr f f*F ^Ti Trif ^Tf »rf*f- ^ ^ # r»r<’WK f f rft t >flr t, #iT? WhPTSTR ? t 'TX «r«T5r?> 1 WR srfW e !TRift ^ #■ ^spT f Pp ^ ffFOT ^ t ?fr iT| w ?r??r Hmr ^ 1 4 # iTf ?r# f * r r 15 T R ? m # ^ > ? r ^ aT'i'ni ^ f% ^ ^ I 3T?T 3ft ^ ?r^cft I t ^ ftriT^^t#srfT?rw»ff T?^^=rr ^ i *ftr ^ H'fll, ’h *k ^ 5R4 # v i p rin ts ? vjjf ^ iff >ft ?t j t ^ P'l't'H ’Tiff^ 1% 5ITR fTJff ^ rft ?T5 I ^ ¥HT ? fk # #r PrcwK f i ^ ^ ^000 ^tTJTT ^qfirr 1 ft’rf?! ^ «(gd H> ^^?»rr 5f? t, ^5 *r'Tt?T f ^ ^ ^ % f^5?cTR Ilf t#cr?5r «re?«r t 1 Shri U, M. Trlvedi (Chittor): Aii 11 # # ^[apTT ^nfcTT | i offence under section 188 is cognisable and non-bailable in the Delhi State • WftRf? fe?5Pr *1^ 5T ^ ?W fIT JT? f w q r If? iTTimT Ijff TO ftilTT t I ^dhr "vlc *PT !B9HT ^ ^ I fraRf 2T? ^ ^ ^ ^ t ^ pjt [Mr. Deputy-Speaker] by way ot a resolution or a motion, Shri Radhelal Vyas: May I invite in both of which vote of the House your attention to rule 171? There is a has to be taken. And further in a specific provision in the rules...... resolutipn, due notice has to be given and it has to be balloted. Regarding Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Order, order. a motion of public importance, vote I am answering that point. has to be taken. With respect to other matters of public in^portance where Shri ^ d h e la l Vyas: Without a hon. Members only want to raise a motiop, no discussion can be...... discussion without putting it to vote, M^. Deputy-Speaker: 1 am answer- but only for the purpose of drawing ing that point. Rule 171 relates to a the attention of the Government, for motion of the kind that we just dis- want of any other specific procedure posed of—where the motion has to be laid down ^in the rules, they have put to vote. been resorting in many cases to 6 P.M. motions of adjournment. But it has been repeatedly held that adjourn- Now, there are so many matters ment motions are in the nature of ^en- where it may not be the desire of the sure motions. Lastly, there is the other person, who ’makes a reference to provision relating to half-an-hour dis- have a discussion, to have a vote of cussion in the evening on two days in the House on the matter. He only a week, but that is under the rules wants to draw the attention of the confined only to a subject matter House. This is a new method of bring- which wias the subject matter of a ing matters to the notice of the House. question, and for fujiher elucidation I am only following it with the con- that half an hour has been allotted. sent of all parties. I propose to give three days in a week instead of two days and allowing matters not only • arising out of a question to be raised In the British House of Commons but matters of public importance. where a matter is of public import- Notice has to be given to the Speaker ance, where a vote of the House is and the Speaker, if he consents, and not called for but the only intention finds that it is a matter of public is to draw the attention of the Govern- importance, and with the consent of ment and to have a discussion on that the Government, who have to allot matter, there is what is called a motion time, this matter may be arranged. I of adjournment: ‘The House do now am applying this to all Members adjourn’, without being a motion of from any party and this is to see how censi^re. We have not got that pro- it works. If the convention is estab- cedure here. For that purpose, there- lished, then we shall crystallise it in fore, finding that very many matters the form of a rule. Under that Dr. S. P. come before the House and as and Mookerjee wrote to me. He wrote to when they arise hon. Members on me that he wrote to the Prime both sides want to have a discussion Minister, the Leader of the House and and ascertain the view of the Govern- that the latter bad agreed to allot a ment on those matters, I invited the certain time and then he made a Leaders of all the groups to the sp^fic point here as the basis of the Chamber a few days ago when the We in this city—when I say we, I have been made are not intended to refer to tbree i>olitical organisations, strengthen Pakistan. 1 shall take that the Jan Sangh, the Hindu Mahasabha point first. and the Ram Rajya Parishad—have started a movement in support of the Jammu movement. Let me make it In our absence, the Prime Minister clear, in the first instance, that what one day said on the rioor of this we have done is to give our moral House that we are helping the enemy. support to the efforts, which, in our I suppose he meant the Pakistan opinion, are being justly made in the enemy. (Interruption) So far as help- State of Jammu and Kashmir for the ing the enemy is concerned, p.s you purpose of vindicating the rights of know, we will be the last persons to the people of that State. No doubt do anything which will consolidate tiie that' movement has been launched by position of Pakistan against the just a Fprtion of the people of that State - rights of India. But, if the unfortunate but the issues raised in ♦hat connec- controversy which has just now arisen tion are so momentous that, in our strengthens the propaganda machinery humble judgment, they affect not only of Pakistan, it devolves both cn us that State but also the entire country. as also on Government to see to it I recognise fully tha^t in a free demo- that the controversy is settled in such cratic country, it should not, normally a manner that Pakistan's hands ^viil speaking, be considered desirable for not be strengthened in any manner ,any such movement to be launched. whatsoever. It is ^ responsibility And. speaking for myself and for which will fall on all of us :ind not others, I should like 1: :> say this with- on us alone. out fear of contradiction that we were extremely anxious—not were, even What are the demands which have are today—that this controversial been made? I shall not go into the matter should be settled amicably details; time will not permit me to do through a process of negotiation so so. One is the finality of the accession that the interests of Jammu and of the State of Jammu and Kashmir Kashmir may be safeguarded and to India. I know the history very well India’s position may not be jeopardised and I know also the manner in which in any manner whatsoever. Unfortu- the question has been sought to be nately, there have been lots of abuses dealt with during the last few years. and counter-abuses, vituperations, But, unless and until this sword of casting oT mofivets and the issues Damocles is removed, unless and until immediately arising out of these have this question is solved, there is no tended to become somewhat clouded. certainty about the future of that I do not want to refer to all these State. And, it is conceded that it does controversies because tny anxiety is give rise to feelings of fear, doubts to concentrate on the main isfsues and and apprehension in the minds of large to make an appeal to the Prime sections of the p>eople as regards iheir Minister and to the House, especially very existence in future. Now, we to the majority party, that even at have suggested a certain way out. We this late stage, we may be able to have said that so far as the UNO is settle inis matter in a manner which concerned, we went there on the will not be derogatory to Government question of aggression and not on the and which will, at the same time, question of accession. Accession is a remove just causes of fear and anxiety domestic matter. Prom the UNO we from the minds of a large section of do not expect to get any justice what- our people. The charge has been soever so far as Kashmir is concerned. brought against us that this is a com- Already one-third of the State of munal movement, that this is a Jammu and Kashmir is in the hands sectarian movement, that this is a re- of Pakistan; and even with regard to actionary movement...... that there is no possibility of our recovering that area because of the An Hon. Member: It is. intransigence of the Security Council. So far as the question of accession Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Wait a minute; is concerned, undoubtedly the Prime do not be in such a hurry. ...this is a Minister held out certain assurances reactionary movement, that this is a and we have suggested a formula that movement which is befriending no question of plebiscite should come Pakistan and all sorts of thinc{s. All now L^t the matter be decided on these conclusions have been paraded the recommendation of the Con- by the Prime Minister himself and stituent Assembly of Jammu and by others. In my hunoble opinion, the Kashmir and so far as India and issues are constitutional, political, Kashmir are concerncd, that matter economic and administrative. The should be treated as closed. I am not demands which have been made have going to discuss this question in detail. nothing to do with communalism or Answers may be given .pointing out sec^flariism. The demands which the dUTlculties. This Is one vital 557 P.S.D. S8^ Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2870 [Dr. S. P. Mookerjee] matter with regard to which an anxiety has been expressed that the will certainly be supreme. If that is greater the delay in havin/^ the matter so, let that flag be put into use from solved, the greater will be the danger day to day, as it is being used in the with regard to the future existence of rest of India. I have even suggested that State. I ask, humbly, is there as a compromise formula that since'it anything communal about it? Is there touches the feelings and emotions of anything reactionary about it, is there certain sections of the people, the State anything that strengthens the hands flag which has now been adopted may of Pakistan with regard to it because be' used on special occasions in addir- we say not only that portion of Jammu tion to the Indian national flag. Is and Kashmir which is now with us there anything in this which can but also that portion of Jammu and smack of communalism or re- Kashmir which is in the hands of actionarism? Pakistan, the entire State should come to India? So how can any one afford Then with regard to provincial to suggest that we are doing this for autonomy, I find from the papers that the purpose of strengthening the the principle of provincial autonomy hands of Pakistan? IS being considered by Sheikh Abdul- lah s Government itself. Then, there Next Gome'S Ihe question of the are certain other grievances. I do not applicability of the provisions of the wish to go into their details, but what, Indian Constitution to that part of m short, is the demand which has the territory. Now, there again, the been made? That thqse grievances formula which has been suggested is should be examined by a really thal if the entire Constitution cannot independent tribunal. A tribunal has be applied immediately, at least those been appointed. Barring the Chief portions of the Constitution which are Justice of the Jammu and Kashmir deemed to be essential and funda- State, all the other persons are mental, should be applied with the administralive officers in the State of least possible delay. E v ^ the July Jammu and Kashmir. The Chief Con- agreement on this very vital question servator of Forests is there. I do not has not yet been implemented. It was know which jungle has to be cleared suggested that this has not been im- ^ that the Chief Conservator of plemented because of this movement. Forests may be considered as a very Now, that is no answer; that is ex- efficient adjudicator on this tribunal. tremely childish because so far as Jammu and Kashmir Government was Shri M. D. Joshi (Ratnagiri South): concerned, it certainly proceeded to On a point of order. give effect to two important parts of that agreement with the least possible Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: These are not delay. Why should it take so many the people who should constitute the months to implement the remaining tribunal. portions? They relate to certain vital matters like Fundamental Rights, Shri M. D. Joshi: On a point of citizenship, jurisdiction of the Supreme order. Court, Emergency Powers of the Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: These are the President, financial and economic main demands which have been out integration ^and conduct of elections forward. in such manner indicated in the Con- stitution itself. Now, there also, it has Depnty-Speaker: Some hon. been stated by the Jammu Parlshad Member has risen to a point of order. and Qther people that with regard to What is the point of order? acquisition of land, if the reforms which have been effected there are P*"- 8. P. Mookerjee; I request that to remain untouched by the provi- this time may be ^aken from the sions of the Constitution, an excep- Government side. tion may be made and that would be acceptable to all concerned. May I Shri M. D. Joshi: My point of order ask in all humility: is there anything IS this. With all respect to the hon. in this demand which smacks of com- Member, can he repeat the same argu- munalism, sectarianism, or anything ments that were put iorward by him which smacks of protecting the rights during the debate on the Jammu and of vested interests, of re-creating Kashmir State on a former occasion? feudalism in that State? That is the ^ Deputy-Speaker: I thought the second demand. hon. Member would say that it does not really arise out of the situation The third demand has been with which is said to have arisen from the regard to the question of the Indian movement in Jammu. I suggest to flac. Now. it has been admitted by the Dr. Syama Prasad that he need not Prime Minister that the'Indian flag elaborate too much on the demands. 3871 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2871 because his motion refers to the situa- problem. How did we come to do it? tion that has arisen as a' result of As I said, in the beginning, normally tile movement, and does not refer to speaking in a free, democratic country the situation there. It is the situation there shoud not be any scope for start- that has arisen out of the movement ing any such satyagraha movement, that his motion seeks to discuss. and from 9th January onwards, for more than a month and a half, I Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: I referred to carried on correspondence with the these points, because I thought that Prime Minister and with Sheikh this might carry conviction with Abdullah. I tried to impress upon Members like the hon. interrupTor. them the necessity of getting some- thing done through the process of The Prime Minister (Shri Jawahar^ negotiations, r o that the situation may lal Nehru): If you will forgive me, Sir, not deteriorate. We did it. We did it I do not wish to come in the way of the “With the best of intentions, without hon. Member saying what he has to say, any reservation whatsoever. I am not but I have been listening to his argu- gomg to refer to the correspondence, ments with some surprise—I mean the because many of the Members have subject of his arguments—because we perhaps seen it. But then when it be- are really discussing the whole came evident that the Government of Kashmir issue. Now, when I agreed to India was not prepared to entertain this discussion, I did not have the this matter at all, then we started this faintest notion that we were going to movement. I am not saying that we discuss this entire issue, which we have not started it. But that move- have repeatedly discussed. I thought ment is not a communal movement. that we were going to discuss some- That movement is not a violent move- thing that is of vital importance, viz. ment. It is a peaceful movement. the movement that the hon. Member is carrying on, and to which the Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Question. Government is resolutely opposed and which the Government thinks is fatal, Dr. S. P. Mookevfee: Question? It most pernicious and ’^objectionable, may be, but if the hon. Prime Minister and ought to be suppressed. can point out a single communal inci- dent in any part of India, his question- Mr. Deputy-Speaker: Let us limit ing will have some truth behind it, the scope. Let us understand the scope. but otherwise that questioning re- I th o u ^t the discussion related to the mains a mere question mark. situation that has arisen out of the movement. That is what I thought. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Violent, But I find the hon. Member is leading every way violent. his arguments to show as to why the movement was started and is laying Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: If the hon. the greatest emphasis on the move- Prime Minister says that our satya- ment. But what we are discussing is grahis have committed violence, let the situation that has arisen on account him appoint a committee of enquiry of the movement, and not the move- and I shall abide by its decision. ment itself. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Everything Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: This was violent. exactly the reason why I had requested Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: But I say this the Prime Minister two days ago that to the Prime Minister, that so far as • he might initiate the discussion and violence is concerned, it is not these tell us the exact points that I have to men—about 600 of them who are in jail meet, but he unfortunately did not in different parts of the country and accede to that request. I am extremely about 50 of them who have been sorry that I referred to these points, arrested under the Preventive Deten- l)Ut I did not know what exactly the tion Act who are guilty of violence. Prime Minister’s reply was going to I have seen a number of these boys be. in the jail. I have seen the rope-like I shall not go into the details of marks on their chest, on their back, this Jammu movement, but I have and I have also seen and heard the just given the background and the manner in which these peaceful satya- purposes for which that movement grahis have been beaten, caned, lathi- has been started there. charged, dragged to the police van, and taken to the .iail. We have also Now, the hon. Prime Minister says seen how ladies have been taken that he would like me to deal speci- awiay—ladies and alio men—ten, fically with the movement. which has twelve miles away from Delhi and let been started here. Here, what we loose near jungles or in remote areas bave started is a movement for the and deprived of their belongings, just purpose of focusing the attention of for the purpose of making them walk the public with regard to the urgency back to Delhi. Let the Prime Minister and the grave necessity of settling this prove that there has been violence 2 873 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu ^ 28*^4 [Dr. S. P. Mookerjee.l committed by the satyagrahis. It is Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: We preach possible that crowds may have done it violence? If you find that 'we commit on one or two occasions; they may violence, undoubtedly tell us. But have done something; but it has been every time do not merely say that we our specific instruction to avoid preach violence. violence, and let me say this that we cannot possibly afford to commit An Hon. Member: You are responsi- any violence- That would be undesir- ble for it. able and that will defeat the very Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: I can say that purpose that we have in view. We if there is violence, no Government have been tied down to a situation, a should tolerate it. But when there are situation which we ourselves do not certain matters of grave import, they like, but what is the remedy which is should be settled through the process open to us. of negotiation. I am amazed to hear the Prime Minister sitting there, say An. Hon. Member: To get out of it. “NO”; he will never settle anything through peaceful negotiations. That is Dr. S. P. Mookerjec: 1 am asking a matter very much for him to decldc. the Prime Minister: If a situation I cannot compel him. I cannot use arises in the country, where a section force. of the people are fighting for their legitimate rights, and everyone in Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: No settle- authority refuses to talk to them—an ment with evil; certainly not with attitude which is inexplicable—what evil. ' can they do? I beg of the Prime Minister to answer this question. An Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: But what T amazing thing is that he and I never am saying is this, that there has been met. Four or f^ve or six times, I said: systematic adoption of violence by the let us trust each other. I am not doubt- Government. What violence can we ing the Prime Minister’s motives. He commit? What force can we think of? is of course proceeding in a manner Shri Raj Bahadur: Is petting of which he certainly thinks is right and stones non-violence? proper, but why should he question those who differ from him? It is not a Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: By whom? Bv question of doubting each other’s the bullocks? Bulls? You refer to that motives. A situation has arisen. bull story. Dr. Kailas Nath and the Certain viewpoints have been placed bull made a perfect combination, and before the country. Can we not find the story came out that the bulls had out some peaceful settlement through come into it. (An Hon. Member: You the process of negotiations? brought the bulls.) We brought the bulls? Is there any evidence? Where Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: No. can we bring the bulls from? There is no question of stone throwing. If Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: That is the there was stone throwing it was done very distinguished chela of Mahatma by agents provocateurs. Gandhi; that is the very distinguished disciple of Mahatma Gandhi—saying Shri Raj Bahadur: Hence is the no, evidence. Has the hon. Member seen the bandaged forehead of the hon. Shri Jawaharlal Nchni; Not with lady Member over there? evil, I will have nothing to do with Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Of course, you evil. want evidence! That distinguished lady, the report in the papers says, Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: That is th« got it from lathi charge by the police. whole point—“I will have nothing to do with peaceful negotiations’*. The I cannot say who has done it. None more he loses his temper, the more of the Members of the House was his inner soul comes out, and it comes present there. I have read in the out in a manner which he cannot conr papers that this was due to a lathi trol himself. He considers that every- charge by the police. thing is evil that is against him. That Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: It is wrong. is the evil in him. That is the most The hon. Member gets his facts from dangerous thing today. Why should he very peculiar sources; that is why he say ‘No’? We are all citizens of a free is wrong. country. Why should he think ihat he and his followers are the only right Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Unfortunately, people,? Let us sit down together and the Police and the C.I.D. are not at see what the position is, and whether my disposal; so I cannot get facts we can come to a settlement or not. from the Police. So, I say» with regard to every matter, let there be an An. Hon. Member: Stop preaching enquiry. Let an enquiry take place. violence. I am prepared to accept the findings •^875 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2Sf6 of an impartial tribunal. I do not say An Hon. Member: From Pakistan! that all the allegations that have been made are true. Some of them may Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Of course, the be exaggerated. I was not present on hon. Member who is quoting Pakistan every occasion. Therefore, the only has left his seat there and has gone way by which we can ascertain the there. He has na^de Pakistan for him- truth is through an impartial investi- self there. gation. If that investigation shows that there has been violence by our Now, so far as this point is conr men, undoubtedly we will have to cerned, if the Prime Minister says accept responsibility. But so far as that his only weapon is force, his only commitment of violence on previous weapon is repression, then it con- occasions was concerned, it was by tinues—let it continue. Of course, we the crowds, not by the peaceful satya- are prepared to suffer the conse- grahis. But, as I say, the Prime quences. But whatever provocation Minister can have it verified. A num- may come from his side, however ber of people have been beaten and much he may lose his temper and sent to Yole camp. One of them, a threaten us, I can assure him that our distinguished man, w:as beaten in a instruction has been from the very merciless manner and when I met him beginning, is today, and will be till in the jail he showed us the mark on the last, that we shall not commit the body. Who committed those in- violence, that it must not take a com- juries on the bodies of these indivi- munal turn, because I know they are duals? Who were the people who most anxious that it takes a com- have done it? (Interruption) munal turn. Now, it is quite possible for the hon. Shri Jawaharlal Nehm: No. Members to say that we have beaten Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Of course they the crowds, we have beaten Congress- are anxious. Otherwise, his whole men and we have beaten ourselves. theory goes. The biggest thing he That, of course, is an argument which does today is to And out communalism the hon. Members belonging to the where it does not exist, thereby creat- majority party can advance. But that ing communalism in this country. is an argument which will only please Wherever he goes, whenever he has them; it will not convince the rest of to hide his own inefficiency, his in- the world. capacity to deal with the vital pro- blems facing this country, there is I am sorry, the Prime Minister one thing—communalism, communa- spoke in that strain. I am i/enuinely lism—^whereas he knows in his heart of and sincerely anxious that we should hearts that so far as surrender to the be able to sit round the table and worst type of communalism is con- find a way out of this^. ' cerned none is guilty in India today Some Hon. Members: No, no. more than he is. There can be no question about that, but he will not Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: It is all right. think about it. I would ^^poeal to him If it is your verdict, if the Govern- that it is not a question oC r>ur talk- ment says that there can be no ques- ing about the past. We love the tion of talk, there can be no question country as much as they do. We want of negotiation and you will rule only the good of this country. by force, you will rule only by re- pression, I can say this, that will fail; An Hon. Member: You do not. that can never succeed. It can never succeed, because it has already Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: WqII, if the aroused feelings. The purpose for hon. Member says that we do not wiiich the agitation is going on has love the country, he discloses his own already aroused deep .sympathy in the perverted mind. If that is your theory, minds of people, not belonging to our let it be so. But we are not prepared creed alone. to accept that position. There may be honest difference of opinion. In all Some Hon. Members: No, no. these matters, where it concerns the vital rights of the people, the liberties Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: I know it has of the people, where a section of the not aroused any sympathy in the people have put forward certain minds of any people who are inter- demands, which according to my rupting me. What is the use of hon. humble opinion are capable of adjust- Members interruptinir me? I do not ment through negotiations, they must expect any sympathy from that be carefully considered. That is the quarter. When I say we have got tragedy of the situation. In one day’s sympathy from people...... time we can settle this, if all of us, view it not from a particular angle of An Hon. Member: Ftom which vision, but from the interest of Jammu quarter? and Kashmir, of India as a whole. If 2877 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2878 [Dr. S. P. Mookerjee] we proceed to examine the matter jeopardise the international situation. from that point of view there is no So, you cannot just overlook the posi- difficulty. tion. My offer is let us sit round the table and discuss the matter and try I make this offer in spite of t^iese to arrive at a settlement wtiich will interruptions, in spite of the Prime be fair and honourable to all. The Minister losing his temper. Whatever answer is for the Prime Minister to he may say, at any time if ne feels giv^. that this matter could be settled, we 'Shii B. Shiva Rao (South Kanara— can coolly sit together and settle it. South): In the very limited time that I am not saying that it should be I propose to take I shall deal with settled by arbitration, but you should only two or three points. When I first take steps which will remove the read the terms of the motion which hi^n causes of fear and isuspicion, was put down by my hon. friend which will create pejtceful conditions, Dr. Mookerjee, it was not clear ia so that democracy may thrive. If that me—and judging from the speech is so, at any moment he will only which my hon. friend has Just deliver-^ have to make a decision and our ed, I think it was equally not clear to co-operation will be at his disposal. him—what the precise scope of the If on the other hand he feels that he motion is which he wants the House to can go on as he likes and only debate this afternoon; because, the utilise force, he may do so and be situation arising out of Jammu may responsible for the consequences. mean many things to many people. la an attempt to solve my perplexity, I loday section 144 is being applied. read the pamphlet which has just been The Prime Minister was in Meerut published and to which my hon. friend three days ago and he made a terrific made a reference—a pamphlet which speech, even probing into our inten- contains the correspondence which tions. I do not know how he entered took place between him and the Prime into my heart. He has probed into Minister and also with Sheikh Abdul- our intentions and has said a lot of lah. I do not know how many Mem- things. I wanted to t»o to Meerut rny bers of this House have lead that after tomorrow. Today I have been pamphlet. But I found in it a good informed that I can go there, provided deal of light in respect of the standr- I do nnt spes’.k anything about Jammu points which the Prime Minister and and Kashmir. You are talking of my hon. friend Dr. Mookerjee take in democracy! What is democracy?— regard to the Kashmir dispute. that all those who support Govern- ment policy will be allowed to go and My hon. friend is impatient that no make speeches and anyone who solution yet been found for this opposes Government policy will be dispute. May I say that he is not the gagged and will not be permitted to only one who is unhappy about it? open his mouth. You call it demo- I think everyone in this House is im- cracy! You think that this democracy patient for a satisfactory solution of will continue in this country? We are this dispute. But I would add, if I asking that democracy may be really may say so, that Dr. Syama P ras^ established, that there may be give Mookerjee in his impatience, as is only and take exchange of views. But if too clear from the terms which he has Government considers that by reason used jn his various letters to the of the majority that it commands, Prime Minister, has yielded to despair today, it-is going to force its will on and to a spirit of defeatism, and he the people of this country, it will not has urged the Prime Minister to adopt work, it will not work, it will not work. courses which can bring neither India Do not bring disaster to the country nor Kashnyr any good but only disas- by following old British methods. ter in the end. I said a moment ago that we are I tell the hon. the Prime Minister not the only people who want a solu- and the Government that these tion of the Kashmir dispute which is matters we should consider dispas- now before the Security Council; sionately on their merits. I am not there are others, outside this House infallible: I am not saying that we and outside this country, who are have not committed any mistakes. equally impatient to seek a solution, Mistakes might have been committed. a quick solution. My hon. friend said But we must trust each other. The in the course of his speech with some question is not one of motives. But warmth: Am I trying to help the we must sit quietly and try to solve enemy by trying to suggest that this problem. The Prime Minister says certain cq^irses be adopted by the that a peculiar situation has come Prime Minister? I venture to suggest which is not only imperilling the to my friend, with all respect to him, interests of this country, but may that perhaps he is helping not exactly 2879 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2880 the enemy, but he is helping, uncon- in that anxiety they overlook certain sciously, some Powers who are not vital points in regard to this dispute, particularly our friends in regard to just as from another standpoint, I the Kashmir dispute. At a meeting of venture to suggest, my hon. friend the Security Council—I think it was opposite too overlooks certain vital in November of last year—Britain pomts in regard to this very dispute. and the United States jointly spon- And may I say that the Prime Minister sored a resolution for a very quick is absolutely right in refusing to be solution of the Kashmir dispute. And stampeded into a hurried or an un- the Prime Minister, on behalf of the wise decision by yielding to pressure Government, authorised the Leader of tactics, whether they are from one the Indian Delegation who oresented extreme outside India or from another the Indian case before the Security extreme inside I/idia? Council, to reject the terms of that rescTlution politely but firmly. These Apart from the merits of this dis- Powers look at the Kashmir dispute, ^ pute, is it wise, I ask, with all respect not as we see it but somewhat dif- to my hon. friend, is it wise when ferently. . Last week, when the esti- this dispute has reached a somewhat mates of the External Affairs Ministry critical stage before th« Security were under debate, I devoted a good Council and the United Nations, when deal of my time to analysing the wisdom dictates that we should all implications of the establishment of a join together in support of the Prime Defence Organisation known as Minister’s policy, that we should con- -N.A.T.O. I read out certain passages fuse the issues and divide the forces from a book which has recently been inside? published by the Royal Institute of My hon. friend spoke very eloquently International Affairs and for v/hich a about the peaceful nature of the group of distinguished British authors movement which has been inaugu- was responsible. Theve is one other rated by the three organisations which revealing passage in that book which he mentioned. May I ask him, if he refers to the Kashmir dispute, and reads the newspap>ers, how is this which may be of interest to the House agitation maintained and sustained in and also to my hon. friend opposite. Delhi? Many colleagues of mine in Discussing the problems of Asia these this House and in the other House writers say: have been, during the last several •‘Pakistan’s military strength is days, visiting different mohallas in pinned down by the Kashmir Delhi City and obtained not only valu- quarrel; and engrossed in rivalry able contacts but valuable informa- with India she cannot play the tion; and they have come back, all of leading role in the Muslim world them, with, reports that the movement to which her population and posi- is languishing in Delhi itself for want tion may seem to entitle her. of local support. Neither India nor Pakistani forces can be courted on to join the Dr. S. P. Mookerjee; Then it is Commonwealth forces for the solved! defence of the Middle East so long Shri B. Shiva Rao: No. You are as the Kashmir problem remains trying to find a remedy for it. Groups unsettled. And even if it were of volunteers have been pouring into settled, ^ is by no means certain Delhi from various centres in U.P., how extensive would be the mili- . Rajasthan and Madhyabharat, partir tary co-operation offered to the cularly from Lucknow, Kanpur, Sita- Commonwealth from Karachi/* pur, Kheri, Faizabad, Meerut, Allaha- bad, Dehra Dun and Gonda. I shall read o^e more sentence from this book which also throws addi- Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: That is part tional light on the point of view of of the scheme. some of these Powers which are work- ing so hard in the Security Council to obtam a quick solution of the Shri B. Shiva Rao: That is a part Kashmir problem: of your scheme. And my hon. friend has been further afield during the “The position taken up by pasi. TcW days; he has visited Bom- India towards the cold war and bay, Bangalore and Calcutta. And her dispute with Pakistan over there are otfier centres which are pro- Kashmir are serious embarrass- viding recruits for this peaceful agita- ments to Britain’s Atlantic tion, from Indore and Gwalior, from policy.*^ Patna and Gaya in Bihar, from Hissar and Rohtak in Punjab, and from Britain and the United States and PEPSU. And I am told—I have not some of the other Powers are anxious, had any verification for this report— for their own reasons, to see this dis- but I am told there is a transit camp pute settled as soon as possible. But in Ghaziabad where these recruits 2881 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2882 [Shri B. Shiva Rao] ^ can refresh themselves before they will give the House only two or three enter the City of Delhi. examples to indicate the type or writing. ' Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: That is not correct. This is a passage from the editorial of one newspaper: ' Shri B. Shiva Rao: I am told Punjab has been divided into two zones, , “Today the police resorted to a Rohtak and Jullundur; Rohtak to feed very severe and ruthless lalW Delhi with volunteers and Jullundur ' charge under the command of for sending volunteers to Pathankot. D.S.P.” Probably even this outside support would begin to languish, as local sup* and they give the name of the Muslim port has languished, if the truth were D.S.P. who has recently been brought known in these far olT places. to Delhi from U.P. And here I come to the writings in “Tear gas was used against ar section of the Delhi Press. And I 60,000 people for full one hour and say it with a good deal of humiliation further lathi charge was made nil and regret as a newspaper man my- of a sudden under the orders of the self. From lime to time a section of same D.S.P.”. the Press in Delhi seems over-powered I will read one more passatce to in- by a wave of hysterical violence and dicate the kind of writing in these fanaticism. We saw one outburst of it papers. “Dr. Syama Prasad Mookerjee in January 1948 which culminated in wanted to settle the Jar> Sangh dispute the murder of the Father of the by Nation. And today, at any rate during peaceful negotiations but Pandit the ifist few weeks, we have wit- Nehru’s dictatorial attitude stands in nessed a similar outburst on the part the way. Sheikh Abdullah too refuses of a section of the Delhi Press. I know to have any talk with the R.S.S. as, there are many honourable excep- in his opinion, the hands of this organi- tions. Some papers, Urdu papers sation are stained with the blood of the particularly, with large circulations, I Muslims.” regret to say, have been publishing I do not want to give more advertise- alarming and provocative headlines. ment to these newspapers by reading I will give the House just a few more of these samples of violent and examples of the kind of headlines unbalanced writings. I shall now con- that are published. There is one ‘ clude by referring to one or t.wo pas- paper—edited the 10th of March— sages in one of the several letters th;.U which says “Police resort to lathi Dr, Syama Prasad Mookerjee v^rote to charge, over half a lakh persons in- the Prime Minister. He put down volved, without giving them any several points for consideration. After warning. Tear gas used ruthlessly*'. Pandit Prem Nath Dogra had been Another paper says “Peaceful satya- released, this is what Dr. Mookerjee grahis lathi charged .several times in says: Delhi”. “Naturally I cannot commit the An Hon. Member. A fact, Sir. Praja Parishad but knowing as I Shri B. Shiva Rao: “Police gives do their minds to some extent, I severe beatings to several persons can make some suggestiqns to you after forcing them out of their shops”. for your consideration**. I have batches of headlines. After that And then follows a number of sug- some very leading Urdu piipers say... gestions which must be accepted by the Government of India and the Shri Algn Rai Shastri (Azamgarh Governmejtit of Kashmir. Dr. Syama Distt.—'East cum Ballia Distt.—West): Prasad Mookerjee has also suggested Have they large circulation? in one of his letters that the with- drawal of this movement of satya- Shri B. Shiva Rao: I am afraid they graha, as he calls it, should be followed have substantial circulations. Another by a conference with not only the headline: “Some disgraceful examples agenda prescribed before the with- of heart-rending atrocities on peaceful drawal of the movement, but even satyagrahia in Delhi” and ^ on. A certain tentative decisions 10 which Muslim Superintendent of Police has the Government must give efTect. been directly responsible*’ for many of these 3o-c9iled police atrocities! Not only have they been giving provocative I will not take more time of the and inflammatory headlines featunng House but I think it is important, this news on their front page ignoring indeed it is a matter of fundamental news of world significance, but importance, that the Prime Minister’s they have also been writing in Interpretation of the basic attitude thelir editorials In a similar strain. I ^ i c h Dr. Mookerjee has adopted ^883 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2884 throughout his cortespondence should a very soft corner in their hearts for be placed on record. The Prime what is going on under the aegis of Minister said in one of his letters: my honourable and formidable friend to the left. I know it is a fact...... “In eitect this agitatton chal- lenges the authority and supre- An Hon. Member: In the present macy of our Parliament in a vital Cabinet? master. It also seeks to interfere in international afl’airs which hav^^ Shri H. N. Mukerjee: .....and I want far-reaching consequences. I am the Government of India to come for- indeed surprised that you should ward—Yes, I have my suspicions expect me or our Government to about some in the present Cabinet— countenance any such attempt the Government of my country should which strikes at the root of demo- come forward and say that as far as cratic Government and accepted this particular agitation is concerned, canons of policy.” they are going to see that its nefarious activities are not permitted to con- And the Prime Minister goes on to tinue. I say this because when I first conclude’: heard Dr. Mookerjee speaking, he began as if he was throwing out a “The larger good of India as sort of compromise suggestion; he said well as the people of Jammu and he had only lent “moral support” to Kashmir State with which we this movement and then he said that have been entrusted is more im- throughout the agitation and even portant than the w ishes of a group now he was anxious for a settlement. of persons who could only think He ended also on a note which sug- in a narrow and bigoted way and gested that he was anxious for a who do not hesitate to do deep settlement. I do not quite know how injury to India’s well-being for to pead his mind. I am not very the sake of some fancied group familiar with the workings of his advantage.” kind of mind. I do not understand how he could go to Calcutta and make I would like to make one comment: the kind of speech which was referred no Prime Minister and no Govern- to by Mr. Shiva Rao just now. I have ment, wbpther it is the Congress got a cutting here. I also belong to Government or any other Government, Calcutta. He wen^ to Calcutta, to my can afford to abdicate its authority constituency, and he made a speech in response to thq defiance of a group which was reported in the Calcutta which persists in breaking the laws edition of the Amrita Bazaj Patrika of the country. of the 23rd of this month. There he said that he wants people from all over the country to join this move- Shri H. N. Mukerjee (Calcutta ment and go to Delhi. The slogan was North-East): A little while ago, I rose raised at a meeting in Calcutta in in my seat to vote in favour of a Wellington Square, Delhi Chalo, let usi motion which wanted a Governnient go to Delhi. I am as proud a Bengaiee enquiry into the arrest and detention as any other. But, I hate Bengalee of certain leaders of the movement patriotism being exploited and muti- whose activities we are discussmg at lated in this way. the moment but I have no hesitation in saying that as far as the Jammu Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: I did not ex- agitation iii concerned, it is a basically ploit. reactionary and an actively counter- revolutionary movement which it is Shri H. N. Mukerjee: These are the the duty of every patriotic citizen of words. I am quoting from the Amrita this country to counter. I know.^-1 Bazar Patrika report of what hear laughter from a certain section Dr. Mookerjee said. This is a paper of the House—there is no love lost which boosts Dr. Mookerjee. between us and the ruling party. I Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Not at all now. know that even today, a Congress Chief Minister from the Punjab of all Shri H. N. Mukerjee: He said: places, a gentleman who goes by the name of Mr. Bhimsen Sachar, said on “Jhis demand should receive the 23rd March at Ambala that “the popular support from all over real fight today is.not between the India. It should npt be treated as Congress and the Praja Parishad, a movement of a section of people, Hindy Mahasabha or the R.S.S. but and all patriotic citizens irres- between India and the Communists’*. pective of party and religion must I make a present of it to the Priroe assist in developing it into an all- Minister. In fact, there are in the, India movement. He announced ranks of the Congress today people in that people from different parts of very high positions—perhaps also in the country e^ressed their readi- thik Cabinet of thJ» country—whp have ness to go to Delhi and take part 2885 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 288(^ [Shri H. N. Mukerjee] in the satyagraha and hoped that reforms question. On the contrary, Bengalees who were always in there is a reference to the constitu- the forefront of any national tional provisions; there is reference to movement would take their part the effective enforcement of the Indian in iV* Constitution in Kashmir, which means It was a 12-year-old lad who got up tiiat the compensation clause would first in thi5 meeting and said, “1 am app!y, which means that the land re- a volunteer for this movement^*. This forms already there would not be is the kind of thing that stinks in our implemented. There is not a word nostrils; it nauseates. He is trying about the real living demands of the here and now to get up an all-India people of Kashmir; nothing about agitation Qver this issue. emplo3n:nent which has to be found for the unemployed soldiers in Kashmir; I shall ref^r to another matter not a word about the bureaucratic which, to mv hiind, is equally poiso- way in which the agents of this Gov- nous. 1 was reading in the papers a ernment are trying halt-heartediy to letter by an hon. Member of this implement .the niggardly, inadequate House, whom I do not see here now— land reforms which have been insti- I do not know for what reason—to tuted there. There is not a word about another hon. Member who is here, who Dogri, nor a claim that the Dogra is the President of the Hindu Maha- people are entitled to use their own sabha, saying that perhaps they could language and that against their will call off this movement. He gives the Urdu should not be imposed on them. reason for it. And what is the reason? There is not a word against the Maha- In Pakistan, he says, there is a slogan raja and the tribe of Rajpramukhs on tor jehadt. They are going to fight whose favours they seem to tlurive India. And so, he suggests, they might and flourish throughout the country. call off this movement. Look at the There is not a word about the real dangerous character of the game live problems of the people of Jammu which these people are playing: keep and Kashmir. Wherever it mav be, up the war psychosis between India they have nothing at all to do with and Pakistan, tell the Indian people the living conditions of the people of that in Pakistan they are talking of the countr^v. This is why their move- war with India and only on that issue, ment has fallen flat. I can say, with these friends are magnanimously a full sense of the facts that their coming forward to withdraw the movement does not appeal to the movement. This kind of suggestion people. It is only in so far as they shows how there are wolves in sheep’s can poison and inflame communal clothing: and they talk about the non- passions that they can have a move- violent character of the satyagraha ment of any sort. That is why they are and their agitation! These are the trying all sorts of subterfuges to have people who flourisli jDn the mainten- a movement of this kind. This is a ance of a communal atmosphere in thing of which the Government have the country. Their occupation will be to tpjfe note. gone the moment our people can really rise to the full stature of their This is the point of view from which being, the moment they ran see how I would like the Government to tackle irrelevant and how subordinate is the this problem: not merely to say that communal canker which they are we are not going to do a thing about utilising for purposes of their own the people’s real grievances. I quite political advancement. understand the Prime Minister saying, “I will have a Round Table Conference If I am told that I may be exaggerat- with you”. I understand that. But, T ing, here is a booklet which I just do want to tell this to Dr. Mookerjee, specially wanted to bring to this if he is at all conscious of his re<;- House. It was sent to us by ponsibility, about which sometimes he Dr. Mookerjee’s own people. It is not mouths glib phra.ses—he often says he a Government publication, extracts is a responsible person and the likes from which were read out by of us on these benches are mischie- Mr. Shiva Rao. I have also got a copy vous char^ters from the streets. If of that. I brought this because it is he is at all serious, why does he not Dr. Mookerjee’s own thing. On page unconditionally withdraw the move- 63 of the document called. Integrate ' ment? He knows he is in position Kashmir, I have a list of the demands to deliver the goods if he wishes to of the Praja Parishad movement, on do sg. After having unconditionally the basis of which Dr. Mookerjee withdrawn the movement, why cannot wanted the Prime Minister to have an he, or anybody else for that matter, agreement. Items I to IX: there is not have a discussion regarding the live a single reference to the living condi« problems which the people of Jammu lions of the people of Kashmir; there might have, which th^ people of is not a single reference to the land Kashmir might have? There are so 2887 Situation in Jammu 25 MAHCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2888 many things about' which, we know, get my hon. friends over there who the people want to agitate their may be laughing as I speak, to agree grievances. He does not do it. He is to withdraw this movement. Actually not interested. He wants to keep it sometimes I have a feeling that possi- up. That is why he went to Bombay bly they have bitten off much more as he went to Calcutta and he had a than they can chew. If these people Press conference. were prepared to come forward and say, we withdraw the movement, and Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: No Press con- if the Government puts forward ference at Calcutta. certain suggestions and approaches the problem, not in a huff or temper, Shri H. N. Mukerjee: There he said but say, we shall go into the real we do not want another Pakistan in grievances relative to the living condi- Bharat, referring to Kashmir. This is tions of the people, as far as Jammir wonderful. In regard to Kashmir we and Kashmir are (oncerned, I am had a discussion last year; we have sure, the whole thing can be settled. occasionally discussiohs about Kash- mir. Kashmir is in a very special I would add, as far as this move* position for certain very concrete, his- ment is concerned, Government should torical reasons. We all know that. If give no quarter to this kind of com- we wanted to dub Kashmir as Pakistan munal counter-revolutionary move- in India because Kashmir is indiibij>- ment. There should be no shilly-shal- ably a Muslim majority Stale, what Is lying over the implementation of the the kind Qf mentality that we are land reforms. Today, in the papers I encouraging to develop in the mind of read about the evidence ^iven before our people here? Why should we the Wazir Commission by a Parlia- tolerate this kind of hate? Why should mentary Secretary of the Kashmir we allow the.se people to keep the Government, who says that many minority in India anci the minority in bureaucratic mistakes are being com- Pakistan in the tenterhooks of agony? mitted and there are many lacunae That is the exact purpose and oDject as far as the land reforms are con- of these people. Why should we allow cerned. Let there be no shilly-shally- these people to keep Kashmir as a ing as far as land reforms are con- running sore, a perpetual apple of cerned. Let there be no truck with discord, a factor for continuing the outmoded bureaucratic" methods as re- war pyc?hosis between India and Pakis- gards the treatment of the common so that at another level this people. Let there be provision for Kashnriir question^ might continue to popular peasant co-operation in the be utilised and exploited by these implementation of the land reforms, Anglo-American worthies who sit in be a serious eflbrt to the Security Council? mobilise the democratic progressive forces, for whatever they are worth, giat we have got in our country, in I know that he does make from time Kashmir and elsewhere, and then we to time reasonable suggestions. Let us shall be able to throw into the dust gDnsider those suggestions. Let the bin of history those absolutely re- Prime Minister come forward, for actionary forces which, I am sorry tO" example, and consider very seriously, say, my hon. friend on the left re- and not merely dismiss it as an airy presents. ejaculation, the question of the with- 7 P.M. drawal of the Kashmir case from the United Nations. This is a matter Shri N. C. Chatterjec (Hoogiily); I about^ which we expect the Prime am amazed at the unnoly alliance Minister to give somP! really serious between the Congress aiid the Com- thoup'ht. Let him also come forward munists. I do not knv^w whether I and f>ay that there are certain griev- shall congratulate the l"rime Minister ances of the people of Jammu and or offer my condolences. Kashmir relative to their living condi- Shri AIktu Rai Shastri: Sometimes, tions about which he is shortly going you yourself have alliances with those to have a real investigation. Let him people. the same time that he is not going to tolerate Shri N. C. Chatlerjee: Honestly, nonsense about this Sag question there is a complete, oersistent, cruel, question, about malignant misunderstanding of this we Rajpramukh question, which are movement. I say so with a full sense I? t*’® movement of responsibility. Why have we started which IS led by Dr. IVIookerjee. this? I am not going into details, but. I think, I owe it to the House and I also say this. I would expect hon. colleagues here to explain why a Dr. Mookerjee, if he has an iota of responsible citizen should start a responsibility, to say. “I withdraw the movement like this. I take the House movement unconditionally.'* He can into the fullest confidence, and I am 2889 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2890 tShri N. C. Chatterjee] perfectly candid. With the fullest with them and trying to appreciate sense of candour and responsibility I their demand, what Is happening say we thought that the people of there? A reign of terror has been lei Jammu, our unfortunate brothers and loose. ' sisters who are being oppressed and Why are people facing lathi-char^es tortured, who have been subjected to and bullets there? It is not ouj: move- a reign of terror and ruthlessness ment. They have started the move- (Interruption). ment three months ago. During these Some Hon. Members: No, no. three months they have been facing lathi-charges; they have been facing fir- Shri N. C. Chatterjee; That is my ings; they have been facing bullets. tionest con^fiction, and we can prove What for? Two thousand people went it to the hilt—iiot by shouting they to jai). Men and women are suflerinj^ can iitop the voice of truth. By a cam- all sorts of indignities and torture and paign of misrepresentation, you can cruel repression. What for?—because, befog the people for some time, but they want integration, complete, un- you cannot convert untruth into truth conditional and irrevocable accession by merely ^ shouts and propaganda with India. Is that a crime? Is that communalism? Now, my friend What is the offence that these poor, Mr. Hirendra Nath Mukerjee stands tortured brothers and sisters of Jammu up and s^s: *‘These are reactionary have committed? (Interruption). What communal forces operating”. What is is the crime they have committed? the communalism there? They are Please do not' laugh at this serious fighting for integration, and the estab- matter. lishment of the citizenship rights which you people enjoy here. When Here is a printed memorandum ^ e Supreme Court released me ann which the President of the Praja Pari- Dr. Mookerjee, our Kashmir friends shad of Jammu submitted to the came to congratulate us. We said: Rashtrapati, the President of India. “Now, we realise, my brothers, why The first sentence is: they do not want the Supreme Court’s jurisdiction to be extended to Kash- “The people of Jammu are parti- mir . There are hundreds of people cularly anxious to ensure their there who are kept behind prison bars, State becomes firmly and finally a not for days, not for weeks, but for permanent unit of the Indian months. Responsible men have been Union, and they are prepared to denied all liberty; no charge, no trial, pay any price for it.’^ no accusation, no opportunity of That is their demand—“for Heaven's vindicating themselves, no opportunity sake, do not keep us on tenterhooks”. or chance of proving their innocence— TOe Prime Minister of India, rightly and they have been kept there in iail or wrongly, has sent the matter to for months and months. They want the U.N.O. The U.N.O. is playing with the same Fundamental Rights which it. There is an ofl'er of plebiscite. Do.. Indian citizens enjoy. It is an abso- you not realise, have you not got the lutely wipk^ untruth which the sense to appreciate that so long as Communist Member ^ays, that we are that plebiscite is there, naturally these supporting them because we want the poor people are labouring under a Rajpramukh to come back. Nothing of justifiable apprehension as to their the iind. Our grievance was: you have future? They, as sons and daughters kept the Nizam as Rajpramukh. and of Mother Ij;;idia say: “Whatever may you have weeded out this man; that happen, l^t there be no consignment IS not fair. We have pointed out that of us into perdition, into hell”. They was unfair, but nobody wants the Raj- hate Pakistan. What is the good of Nobody wants it. the Prime Minister standing up and say 1? this: that their essen- saying: “You people are friends of thJr» ^ liberties have been denied, Pakirian and enemies of India”? That hi.mt suppression, and basic is absolutely an unfounded charge. human rights have been denied to His ranting is based on moonshine. people. There ;s no democracy They are saying, we arc saying: “For really functioning, and they, therefore, Heaven’s sake, withdraw this Kashmir ^ justified in demanding issue from the U.N.O. and if you have got courage, if you have got patrio- tism, if you have got sincerity, if yau TnsV^li ^ f is wrong there? have got strength, take away that tfllkW / them that, you are portion of Kashmir which the Pakis- lism Th?J I of communa- tanis have illegally, unlawfully tres- a K ? “ 8*’® raising— passed into and occupied”. That is a false bogie, a misleading charge. our stand. That is wtiat the Jammu Mr. Shiva Rao says we are im- pftople want. Instead of discussing patient. No, the electorate is impatient 2891 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2S9Z with your policy of vacillation and his senses can say that we want to get drift. (An Hon. Member: Question). the Maharaja back, if once you give Therefore, election after election is them the Fundamental Rights? They going against them, and they know it, are perfectly prepared, and w« are also and therefore they are impatient, they perfectly prepared not to demand the are unhappy, they are carrying on this Maharaja back. I myself assured so-called anti-communal propaganda. Sheikh Abdullah ‘For Heaven’s sake, Is this democracy or a mockery of finalise the Fundamental Rights, baiv democracy? You do not allow one ring those thlnifs to which you object'. Member of Parliament to go to Luck- He said ‘I will do that’. We are not now and put forth his standpoint. asking the Prime Minister to do any- You do not allow a Member of Parlia- thing against the declared wishes of ment to go to Punjab and make his Parliament. Is it the declared wish of stanjipoint clear. But you invite ihv Parliament that the Fundamental stooges and flunkies and toadies of Rights will be enjoyed by everybody Sheikh Abdullah and allow them to ' except the brothers and sisters of propagate their views in Punjab and Jammu? Is it the declared wish of in other parts of India. Is this demo- Parliament that there should be finan- cracy? You have been committing cial. integration with every State, but violehce. Government has committed not with the State of Jammu and organized violence on our people Kashmir? Is it the declared will of which is unworthy of any civilized Parliament that the Supreme Court Government. A Member said: “We are shall be the final tribunal for the ' not going to express any sorrow or enforcement and vindication of basic regret at the detention of M.P’s. human rights for each and every It is not we, Members of citizen in India, excepting these poor Parliament are concerned—it is a q>ies- people of Jammu and Kashmir? Is tion of denial of Fundamental flights that the declared will of Parliament? and of basic human rights which we Parliament has never said that. Our have ,incorporated in the Constitution. charge was this Jhat the Prime Minister And hot only that. You have written has allowed his friendship for Sheikh.' a false document in order to dress up Abdullah or his weakness for Sheikh the case that there has been a com- Abdullah to be exploited by him. He pliance with the demands of Funda- has not compelled him to play the mental Rights. That is what has been game. Sheikh Abdullah has imple- done. mented only those parts of the Ju^v Agreement with the Prime Minister, What they are demanding is this— that suited, him. He abolished the Raj- I told Sheikh Abdulla myself, when I pramukh. He drove out the M ^araja, had the privilege of discussing the and had a Sadar-i-Riyasat, and his matter with him: “Why do you not flag. He has got what he wanted. But accept the Fundamental Rights?’'. The what about the other things? What difficulty was only the clause regard- about the Supreme Court? What about ing land-holding. We are perfectly pre- financial integration? What about the pared, the Praja Parishad is prepared, other Fundamental Rights? Why have to make some reasonable compromise they not been implemented? I asked wiith regard to that. We are not say- the Prime Minister, I think, towards ing: “bring back the old feudal regime the end of November, ‘Has Sheikh there”. We are not saying that. We Abdullah’s Government implemented are saying that the fundamental basic the other things?’ I got the reply ‘No’, right which is enjoyed by over 32 and the charge was made that our crores of human beings in this country movement was responsible for the non- should be conceded to them. What is implementation of the Prime Ministers* the Fundamental Right?—Freedom of Agreement. It is not a fair charge. It speech and freedom of expression. You is an unfair charge, an untrue charge. know that pre-censorship, or banning What had he been doing for the last of newspapers is illegal in India. But six months? He has not implemented so many new.spapers are banned in anything, excepting those parts which Kashmfr The Opposition Press is suited him and his vanity. gagged. No independent Press is allow- ed to function. The an|4-Abdullah Press Now, can anybody stand up and is gagged and smothered. Their demand say ‘Never talk to the Praja Parishad is: “For Heaven’s >ake, at least give leaders, never talk to those people us these things, freedom of speech and who have been supporting them or expression and other freedoms which have been lending them support’? Our you people engoy. Give us these free- movement is a non-violent peaceful doms . movement for the purpose of reusing public attention on the reign of terror It is a wicked misrepresentation to which was going on, on the ruthless say that the demand for Fundamental repression which was going on in Right is to instal the Rajpramukh back. Jammu and Kashmir. You do not send It is a perversion of our stand. Who in any dispassionate observes there, only^ 2893 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2894 [Shri N. C. Chatterjee] ' Sheikh Abdullah’s men can go. Only kot have little relation to facts. I those who are friendly to him can go have been getting messages, and there. But we cannot go there. Those invariably I enquire. The result of Members of Parliament who are criti- the inquiry does not bear out the cal of his administration cannot go message at all.” there. One commission was appointed consisting of the Members of the pow can the Prime Minister who Legislature. But they were refused receives the letter at three o'clock or entry there. Why? Because there was so, make an inquiry within a couple of something ugly there, which they hours, and write to me by five or six could not possibly expose, and which o’clock? How can he do it. they could not venture to place before the public eye. Therefore thevr did The Deputy Minister of Oommuni- that. What we are saying is this. And catlons (Shri Raj Bahadur): Science I am saying it with the fullest sense has advanced too far. (Interruptions)^ of responsibility that I owe as my duty to my fellow-citizens of India. When Shri N. C: Chatterjee: Are we Mem- lakhs and lakhs of my fellow-citizens bers of Parliament to be tre?.ted as ^re in danger in Jamniu and Kashmir, children? It may be telepathy! are we when the Government gf Sheikh nincompoops? I may tell you this is Abdullah is pursuing a tragic policy of not the way to deal with people. I am obduracy, when our Government are sorry that men and women have Deen adopting a policy of indifference or molested, and we are getting distres- vacillation, then it is our duty, when sing reports. We wanted to put an end we are satisfied that their dtmand is to this. We wanted that those ugly just, fair and reasonable that we scenes which happened auriiiK the should do our best to focus public British regime should not happen in attention on this, and mobilise«public free and independent India. At that opinion, so as to put pressure upon time the Britishers pufl^cd up with our Gove^nme^t and upon Sheikh power, and suffering from power in- Abdullah so that justice can be done, toxication told Pandit Jawaharlal to them. It is not a ‘Quit I;idia Move- Nehru and the fi,ghters of freedom, ment’ that we are having. We are not ‘You people are traitors, we shall not ;saying that you people should quit have any Round Table Conference or India. We are saying simply this. For any talks with you’. What is the good Heaven’s sake, try to understand us. of Mr. Shiva Rao talking in that way? Do not be misled by prejudices. Do You will have to come down from your aol be misled by persistent propa- giddy heights. I am appealing >ou, ganda. Do not thir& that there is ‘Do not play the role of Linlithgow, anything communal, or selfish or do not play the role of Hallet, and sectarian or narrow. If this move- other British Imperialists’. You ment had been sectarian or narrow or have got to come down frum your communal, this would not have gone heights. You have to shed your pres- on in Jammu for so many months. 1 tige. Shed your hauteur and settle was most distressed to hear that there this thing in a spirit of compromise. were daily and nightly raids on village I think, with a little bit of forbear- ^fipr village in Jammu and there was ance, understanding, patience and molestation of men and women. It was charity, this thing can be settled, very disgraceful. I wrote to the Prime honorably, fairly, justly and with Minister, on the 4th, before our move- benefit to both Kashmir and Indid, ment st.*3rtod, that I was getting very and also to the lasting benefit to the disUessing messages, and I sent him people of Jammu. two telegrams. I wrotp a letter on the ' f 4th of March: Shri Jawaharlal Nehru)(^I have been trying very hard at le6s^ to under- “My dear Prime Minister, stand the point of view of some hon. Members opposite, the hon. Member We are receiving distressing who initiated this discussion, and the news from Jammu. It seems that one who has just spoken. It is noL for repression is going on m full lack of trying, now or previously in swing; people in authority are re- the course of our correspondence, tha^ sorting to extreme methods. . I failed to understand that point of And I se^^t him two telegrams, which view. Indeed I came to the conclusion i received on that day, from the Jammu that there must be something radically people, and I appealed to him to look different in our mental approaches to Into the matter. A very kind reply this or other problems. One can under in which I live and the hon. Member and, I repeat it. Maybe—I do not say lives, which made us inevitablj^^ sup- who is right—I have got it on the pose, to arrive at entirely dilTerent brain, hyt I am not afraid of that. Not -conclusions. Here is the hon. Member in that sense; we have dealt with it in Mr. Chatterjee talking in melodramatic the last thirty or forty years adequately tones of what is happening in Jammu and repeatedly. But I am not afraid and elsewhere, and asking for our of this as I am not afraid of this parti- sympathy. Asking what? Just have a cular movement or any other, from talk around a table. We will setile it the governmental or from any other in the course of discussion. It seems so point of view. But whftt I am afraid simple. They are very simple demands! of is this attempt, this repeated l^on-communal! There is nothing com- attempt, to rouse up certain munal about these demands, I can passions in the people, to rouse accept them; at any rate why not I up certain prejudices in the give some indication of accepting people, to play upon them, to exploit them. them in the name of the country, in the name of nationalism, in the name of various good things and thereby Now, what appears to the hon. turn the country’s mind or the minds Member so simple and so obvious of many people in an utterly wrong appears to me a highly pernicious and direction, in a dangerous direction, malignant thing. I do not wish to use which not only stops progress, but, weaker words, because I think that what is more than that, may bring the whole approach to this problem on (great danger in its train. I have no the other side has bpen malignant— desire to make the flesh of pe Dr. S. P. Mookerjec: That is not the Sangh agitation? I cannot for a solution. moment consider it in the shape of an agitation. It is completely artificial; it Shri V. G. Deshpande (Guna): With- has no roots and I should like' the draw from'" the U.N.O. House to consider this. Shri Algu Ral Shastri: Withdraw the movement. t Take these matters over which , Mr. Chatterjee grew so eloquent. Now Shri Jawaharlftl Nehru: We have in just think about it—a mass agitation the course of the last five years dis.- for Fundamental Rights. I can agree. cussed 'the Kashmir issue on many The House may want them and I want occasions in this House. About nine them, but the urgency of Fundamental months ago or less, we discussed it Rights becomes so much in Jammu very fully—on the occasion of this and Kashmir that people perform agreement that we had with the satyagraha, ‘We must have Funda^ Kashmir Government,. And that agree- mentQl Rights’. Now, I regret to say ment was, in a sense, ratified by this my own’ knowledge of the various House. In the course of this session, forms of agitation and satyagraha, twice we have discussed this matter which may not be as great as at some length: first on the occasion Mr. Chatterjee’s or Dr. Mookerjee’s. of the President’s Address, and has not led me to the conclusion that secondly, when the External Allairs this type of thing can be called a mass estimates were being discussed. So agitation. They may have other there has been no lack of discussion reasons—that is a 'different matter— in this House in this matter. Because but here again some demands are it has been an important matter—the made upon us and we are asked to whole Kashmir issue—we have tried discuss them. What are those to keep the House in touch with demands? Hon. Members referred to developments. And now after it has one or two suggestions given in these been discussed and after the House letters and booklets circulate. Now. has agreed to a certain policy, I put I put it to this House that some of it to the House for its consideration— those demands are such—I am a because this point has troubled my modest individual—that this Parlia- mind—here is this matter, a policy ment cannot give effect to them, even which tJtiis House has decided definitely, if it so chose, for the very simple deliberately—^leave out even its inter- reason that this Parliament’s writ does national implications. How far any not run outside India. Obviously when Members of this House are entitled— you have to deal with an international every Member is entitled to agitate question, well, then you have to deal for the change of that policy; I am with it either diplarriatically or by not saying that—but how far they are war. There is no third, way of dealing entitled to encourage, participate in with an international question; either and make others break laws in regard by friendly diplomacy or unfriendly to a policy, involving a change of diplomacy or by war. You do not pass policy which Parliament has approved a law in your Parliament to impress of? I do not wish to pursue this thing, upon somebody outside your country, but it is something which the House who refuses to acknowledge the should consider. It is an extraordinary authority of your Parliament. May I position, as far as I can see—this give you an example? Here is this approach to this matter. woeful war going on in Korea. Great countries are involved in it and I have Then, we discussed it only less than no doubt that every one of those a month ago or two months ago. countries would like it stopped. These Repeatedly we discussed it. The House great countries cannot stop it by pas- • obviously knows. Therefore, in order sing a law in their Parliament or to bring pressure on this House some- Congress. It is something beyond them. thing is done in the City of Delhi, Even if they want to do it they can- something is done in the town of not do it, however great or powerful Pathankot; and while the way it they may be. It is beyond the autho- ■ done is another matter, I think it is rity of their Parliament to do that. rather a curious way, a rather fantas- Therefore, when a question becomes tic way. an international question like the Ka.shmir question, this Parliament can Hon. Members talk about people take many steps, of course, but it can- coming from Gorakhpur and else- not solve the international part of it. where. What Is more, they come with garlands in their pockets and come out on the streets as satyagrahis; no- Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Is the Prime bod v else garlands them. Is anything Minister suggesting that the accession more artificial than what is happening of Kashmir to India is subject to the in Delhi in the course of tnls Jan approval of some international body? Is that the point he is developing? I last five years and have not been able cannot quite follow. to do? Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: The acces- Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Strengthen sion of Kashmir to India, as the hon. your hands. ^ Member knows, was in that sense com- plete, not subject to anything except Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Strengthen subject to the goodwill of the people my hands! of Kashmir. Shri Alffu Rai Shastri: God save you Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: That is a differ- from such friends! ent matter. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: So 1 do sub- mit that nothing more in the way of Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: It is a very agitations—both in regard to the iinportant thing and by that declara- objective aimed at and, if I may say tion we are going to stand. It is left so, to some extent, even the methods to their decision. The hon. Member pursued—is really difficult for me to also knows that this question has been conceive. before the Security Council. For the moment, let us leave out whether it Now, look at it from another way. was right or wrong to send it there. If it is admitted that accession or no Now it is before an international forum accession we are not going to hold on and how can I or this Parliament take to Kashmir against the will of the it away? Some may say that the ques- people of Kashmir, it just does not tion is already dec’ded because we matter whether there is accession or passed this law or resolution. It is not. I make it perfectly clear that r beyond my understanding. I can take am not going to hold on by for^'e of a succession of steps if you like, which arms against the v/ish of Kashmir. steps should involve, first of all say- We are there because the people o t ing, no more Security Council, no Kashmir wanted us to be there, or a> more United Nations. If you are pre- majority of them. If they do not want pared to do that and take the con- us, c^it y^e come, whether the acces* sequences of it, we may do it. We may sion IS legally binding or is complete not do it because, the consequences are- or incomplete. That follows naturaliflp very serious. The consequences are not from what we said there but ffconr not the withdrawal of the Kashmir our liberal policy in such matters. issue; it may be withdrawal possibly Now, therefore, adopting a policy of India from tK^ United Nations. You which weakens our ii^ tio n in ' the may be prepared for that if you realise mind^ of the people of Kashmir, which ihe consequences, the very serious is not for strengthening our hanc\s or consequences...... strengthening India’s position any- where outside India or Inside India*, Shri H. N. Mukerjee; Does the Prime is for you. It is patent thrat the poUcy Minister suggest that the withdrawal of the Praja Parishad, as pursued of the Kashmir case from the United there, weakens our cause nationally, Nations means necessarily the with*- and internationally, in Kashmir and drawal of India from the U.N.O.? ever3Twhere. How to strengthen any- body’s hands? It is as obvious a thing Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: I do not say, as you can have it. necessarily. I said we have to take into consideration the possible develop- Then again it has been proposed— ments. I do not say it necessarily nothing has been said about it at this means that; it may mean that or it moment—‘Well, if not Kashmir, let may not hiean that. It is not such a Jammu become completely inter-related simple issue as you suppose it to be. with India’. That obviously means that It has got all kinds of consequences the Jammu and Kashmir State is dis- in regard to our relationship with a rupted. And we support this famous large number of countries and other process o( Integration by disruption nations. Any question which has far- and by throwing away inevitably the reaching consequences is a complicated rest of the State into somebody’s laps. issue. It is an issue, which, with all But a little logic will show that all the goodwill in the world, we cannot these things lead to something which is solve suddenly by our wishing to solve entirely opposed to the so-called it. I repeat, here is ^ thing we want. demands of the Praja Parishad or Jan We wanted for the last five years the Sangh. .Every step that they are Kashmir issue to be finalised, and taking or have taken leads them away finalised in a particular way. In that from India, away from the very things there is no difference of opinion. Now, that they demand. That is why I say what is the good of a person going to it is SL most amazing agitation because, Chandni Chowk and doing some kind consciously or unconsciously they go of so-called satyagraha for something on injuring the very cause they pre- that I have been trying to do for the tend to have at heart 557 P.S.D. 2901 Situation in JamTnu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jarmnu 2902 (Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] Mr. Chatterjee referred to some tele- Pakistan or something, he should grams he sent me and my reply; and withdarw his movement. It is up to he said that it was amazing how him and to his colleagues to with- rapidly I have enquired into them in draw it or not, but I would like to the course of two or three hours. assure him and other hon. Members Mr. Chatterjee will appreciate the that t there is no jehad in Pakistan at rapidity with which I reply to letters the ,present moment. There is no diffi- from him. culty, and we are not worried about that in the slightest degree, so that that need not be considered in this Dr. S. F, Mookerjee: There I agree particular connection. As a matter of entirely. fact, as the House knows, Pakistan is facing very severe troubles of its Shri Jawaliailal Nehru: What I own—internal troubles; very grave wrote to him was this; that every dav difficulties. But jehad or no jehad, it and sometimes twice a day the Praja is true that 'the activities of these Parishad representative at Pathankot or£nr.'5-RtiQn$ in Jammu which are sent me, and him as it appeared sub- carrying on this . agitation have sequently, telegrams. And in fact, his attracted a tremeiidoas amount "Of previous telegrams, every one of them, at^tent^on and publicity in Pakistan I have sent them there and made It would have been much greater but some enquiry. I do not say that I for the fact of their own troubles instituted a Commission presided over suddenly coming to the front. Becauser by a High Court Judge to enquire into this is just the thing which—if I may them. I have made some enquiry say so—some of the minds in Pakistan and Invariably I have found that those fully understand. That is how their telegrams were an amazing concoction minds function. They understand it. of things that had not happened, or and they like it, because it feeds iheir •exaggerations. It was astounding. Yes, own bigotry. It does not matter what these thimpi were not even on sight cloak it wears on either side. Here, at Pathaiiot—may be queer concoc- the hon. Member says that it is not tions or rumours of some things that communal. He asks: what is there happened somewhere and not where communal in asking for a greater in- he was. So, I point out to Mr, Chatter- tegration of Jammu and Kashmir? jee that I have enquired into these • There is nothing communal, but every- matters and have found most of them thing from A to Z behind this move- to be complete falsehoods and, I ment is communal—from the beginning. should like to say, lies. Because it is There is no doubt about it. The whole entirely beyond my possibilities to And approach, the whole mentality and if out ^hat ts happening there. I have I may say so, the whole past of the tried to keep in touch and I have gentlemen behind it, are communal tried to enquire and I have seldom and their past is a witness, not only come across a more amazing collec- during a year or two, not only five tion of concoctions of falsehoods and years ago, but ten or twenty or thirty lies than are contained in some of the years ago, to the disruptive activities publications of the Praja Parishad of these organisations. One of them and it is much more astonishing the is, of course, a new organisation. way they pile up thick falsehood upon falsehood and if Ihey get hold of an Shri Nand Lai Sharma (Sjkar): That atom of truth they make a mountain charge is denied absolutely. of falsehood. These are repeated in some of the Delhi papers to which Mr. Shiva Rao referred here and Shri V. G. Deshpande: Not one, but reaJly it is a matter of deep regret to two. me; the type of newspapers we are developing in this country, some of Shri Jawaharhii Nehru: I apologise. them, of the type specially of the Two orgfinisations have no past, no Urdu newspapers in the Punjab and long past anjrway. in Delhi, is a painful thing. Because, apart from a complete departure The Minister of Defence Organisa- from veracity, the vulgarity of it, the sation (Shri Tyagi): Nor any future. indecency of it, the lowness of it amazes—this kind of thing, if it is iShri Jawaharlal Nehru: But the published degrades their minds. people belonging to them have a very long past. An hon. Member, is not here, yesterday or the di^ before Issued Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: So have you some kind of a statement—I have not also. seen it; but I have heard about it— •i^ n g that becauM of jehad In Shri Jawaharlal Nehni: I know 2903 Situation in Jammu 25 MABCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2904 Dr. S. P. Mookerjcc: A wonderful a question of struggle with ttkeoi* past—Pakistan etc. well, it is a misfortune, but wc hav« to face it and we shall face it. W« are facing it and we,will face it, be- Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: So that you cause if that movement by any mis- need not worry about wordf or terms. cha#e gains any elements of succe«, it means a black night for India in the future. It means disaster and ruin for Dr. S. P. Mookerjee: Nor remember India. Therefore, we shall flght it with the past. ** all our strength. Shri Jawaharlal Nehru: Here is a definite approach to our political, a So, I would have this House to our social and to our economic pro- consider this matter in all its aspects, blems and I have no doubt that what and not in the sense that this move- I consider—with apologies to the hon. ment is strong enough to upset any- Member opposite—the communal thing or create any grave results. I approach is a limited, narrow, bigoted would like it to consider the mentaUty approach. It is a reactionary approach. lying behind it. the way it is bdng It is to some extent a revivalist carried on. I am not referring to the approach, and I think that this move- facts of the movement—how the whole ment of the Praja Parishad is a com- thing, as I said« is completely artir munal one. Every hon. Member must flcial, and how people coming from know that the Praja Parishad sud- elsewhere are carrying it on. Shop- denly came into existence a short time keepers and others come to us and ago, say, two or three years ago, when complain: can you not put an end to the R.S.S.S. or its branch in Kashmir this mischief round about us? can was banned. The very same gently not lead our ordinary lives and do our men suddenly became the Praja Pari- business? They come to us, and every- shad, so that you will appreciate that body knows that the shopkeepers and that does not change their back- most of the residents of Delhi have ground, or their way of thinking, or nothing to do with it and are entix^, their way of functioning in the nar- opposed to it. No doubt, some young rowest way. It is true and I am pre- boys come and shout slogans etc. and pared to admit it, that other people occasionally throw stones. But the in Jammu have ^ no doubt economic whole conception of it, the whole pur- and other grievances, which I hope pose of it, is mischievous. Some people are being enquired into. A committee may be led away. They may not has been appointed,* and it has en- realise it. But there can be no doubt quired into them, and I hope more that this movement is harmful and will be done towards that end. These mischievous, and it is because of people have been exploited by this that—and pot because of any parti- fegitation. We should consider those cular significance of this movement; it matters no doubt, but if I am asked is because it comes under false to discuss these high constitutional colours; because it talks about matters, international matters, with nationalism; because it talks about high the Praja Parishad or any other Pari- ideals; of the Supreme Court; of ^had like that, I regret I wholly ind Fundamental Rights and so on—it is absolutely am unable to do so. I am because of these things I say that the unable to do so for a variety of average person may be taken in by reasons. Number one is that I can- it. We have to explain this to them, not discuss these matters in this way, and tell them that this movement has discuss international matters in this nothing to do with them. We shall way, with any outside movement. consider the question of the Supreme Secondly, I am not prepared to dis- Court or Fundamental Rights. Cer- cuss them with any organisation tainly. Kashmir—^remember this care- which has functioned in the way this fully—has been in the course of the •organisation has functioned during last five y^ars a war area. We have the last three or four months. I think fought our first war there, and even it has done a grave disservice to India now it is a period of truce and we .and all those who have encouraged it have not finished it. Even now, our have done and are doing a very grave troops stand sentry on the borders disservice to India, to India's position there. And there, where our troops internally, to India’s position exter- remain within ten or fifteen miles of nally and internationally, and I am the bprder, the Praja Parishad goes, not prepared—I should be completely and does safj/agraha. Just try to think frank and speak with complete can- of it. Just think of this idea of doing dour to this House—I am not pre- satyagraha on the cease-fire line, or pared to do anything which add» to almost on the cease-fire line. Can tin t their prestige by one iota, because be a bona fide thing to achieve any they will utilise that for future results? It is mischievous, I say. It is trouble. 1 am quite sure of it. If it is mischievous to go and make our troops 2905 Situation in Jammu 25 MARCH 1953 Situation in Jammu 2906· [Shri Jawaharlal Nehru] and soldiers think, to infect them, to and. agree with the policy that the make them feel that there is some- Government has been following in this thing rwrong with them and that the matter. satyagrahis are sympathising with -, them. The whole thing is wrong .om The Hoffse then adjourned till two· beginning to end, and I hope that this of the Clock on Thursday, the 26th .House will therefore fully appreciate March 1953. - -, ~ .~ -~