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Tuesday Volume 642 5 June 2018 No. 147 HOUSE OF COMMONS OFFICIAL REPORT PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES (HANSARD) Tuesday 5 June 2018 © Parliamentary Copyright House of Commons 2018 This publication may be reproduced under the terms of the Open Parliament licence, which is published at www.parliament.uk/site-information/copyright/. 145 5 JUNE 2018 146 Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP): As one of those House of Commons who has served on the armed forces parliamentary scheme and seen the benefits that it provides in increasing Tuesday 5 June 2018 knowledge, I commend the Minister for what he is doing. I suggest that this scheme should be similar to The House met at half-past Eleven o’clock the armed forces scheme, because it has worked extremely well, and I think that the Prison Service should take advantage of it. PRAYERS Rory Stewart: We are looking closely at the armed [MR SPEAKER in the Chair] forces parliamentary scheme, and also at the police parliamentary scheme, in which my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State took part. Those are quite large Oral Answers to Questions and well-funded schemes, so we are looking at them carefully. This scheme may start as a smaller pilot, but we certainly want to model it on those other schemes. JUSTICE Julia Lopez (Hornchurch and Upminster) (Con): A Prison Service parliamentary scheme would give prison The Secretary of State was asked— officers an opportunity to flag directly with Members of Prison Service Parliamentary Scheme Parliament wider law and order issues, one of which is the use of separation jail cells to hold Islamist terrorists 1. Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC): who pose a national security threat through attempts to What assessment he has made of the potential merits of radicalise other inmates. Many of those cells are lying introducing a Prison Service parliamentary scheme. empty. What work are you doing to ensure that they are [905577] in full operation? The Minister of State, Ministry of Justice (Rory Stewart): Mr Speaker: I am doing no work on this matter I pay tribute to the hon. Lady and, indeed, to my hon. whatsoever, but the Minister may be. FriendtheMemberforSittingbourneandSheppey(Gordon Henderson). The idea is for a parliamentary scheme focused on the Prison Service, along the lines of the Rory Stewart: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. parliamentary schemes for the police and the armed Managing Islamist extremists in prison means that, as services. This is an exceptional opportunity to show the well as identifying them and gathering intelligence on public,throughtheirelectedrepresentatives,theextraordinary them, it is sometimes necessary to remove them from work that prison officers do day in, day out. It is a very the general population to prevent them from radicalising tough and a very challenging job, so, inspired by the other people. We have therefore set up two separation hon. Lady and my hon. Friend, we have asked the units, one of which is in Frankland Prison, and a third Department to develop a scheme of exactly the kind will shortly be set up in a new high-security prison. that they have proposed. Such units are a vital element of managing extremists. Liz Saville Roberts: I am delighted to hear the Minister’s Legal Aid response, as, I am sure, are the leaders of the Prison Officers Association who are with us in the Gallery today. I am sure he will agree that this must not be just a 2. Anna Turley (Redcar) (Lab/Co-op): What assessment stage-managed public affairs exercise, and I ask him to he has made of the effect of the decline in the number of commit himself to working with the POA on the design people receiving legal aid for early legal help on access of the scheme. to justice. [905578] Rory Stewart: That seems an excellent idea, and I am The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice glad that the POA representatives are here today. As the (Lucy Frazer): The hon. Lady is right to draw attention hon. Lady—and any other Members who have visited a to the importance of early legal help. If a problem can prison—will know, prisons are rarely stage-managed be solved at an early stage, it can be prevented from affairs, but we will work closely with the POA to ensure escalating later. That is why the Department spent that the scheme reflects the experience of working prison nearly £100 million on early legal help last year. officers. Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con): Anna Turley: I appreciate the Minister’s response, but I, too, am delighted by the Minister’s announcement. the cuts in legal aid are having a devastating effect. One Can he give us any indication of how long it is likely to of my constituents is seeking legal aid after leaving a take to get the scheme up and running? coercive, controlling relationship in which she suffered not just physical but financial abuse. Her former partner Rory Stewart: Let me again pay tribute to my hon. left significant debts in her name. She works, but she Friend for having inspired the scheme. The proposal is does not qualify for legal aid now due to her salary. being put together by the Department at the moment, Because the payments are taken out under court order and I hope that before the end of the year we shall be before she receives her pay, she is left with no money for able to enrol at least a couple of Members of Parliament legal costs. He gets legal aid because he works. Surely on exactly such a scheme. this is not fair, and will the Minister review it? 147 Oral Answers 5 JUNE 2018 Oral Answers 148 Lucy Frazer: The hon. Lady has made an important sustain suitable accommodation. We are also working point. The Government have done a significant amount closely with the Department for Work and Pensions to in relation to domestic violence, understanding that it explore ways of enhancing the current benefit claim often involves not just physical abuse but, as the hon. system. Lady says, coercive control. We have also changed many of the guidelines relating to domestic violence so that Grahame Morris: I thank the Minister for his response, people who have experienced such abuse can obtain but I recently supported a constituent who, after six legal aid more easily. I hope that that resolves some of months in prison, had successfully kicked his drugs the problems that the hon. Lady has identified. habit. After being released from prison with no housing or benefits in place, he had to rely on former associates Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab): The Government’s for support. He has now returned to drugs and his cuts in legal aid have caused widespread damage to chaotic lifestyle—the one he wanted to escape. Does the access to justice. The Information Commissioner has Minister believe that lack of supervision and support now taken serious action against the Ministry of Justice, for offenders leaving prison is likely to increase or owing to its refusal to publish in full the findings of its decrease reoffending? own research, which reveal judges’ deep concerns about the damage that is being caused. Would not the Government Mr Gauke: We must work across government to have spent their time better in trying to fix the broken ensure that those circumstances do not happen. It is justice system, rather than engaging in crass attempts to right that we engage with local authorities, the MHCLG cover up embarrassing research findings showing the and the DWP to ensure that the support is there, and we failures of their legal aid policies? also need to make sure that the probation service is working as it should to provide support for those offenders. Lucy Frazer: As the hon. Gentleman will know, we are currently engaged in an extensive review of the Andrew Selous (South West Bedfordshire) (Con): Some Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders local authorities claim that prisoners sent away from Act 2012. We have met with over 50 organisations or their home area have no local connection when they individuals so far this year. I am aware that a complaint need to find housing. Will the Secretary of State have a has been made to the Information Commissioner’s Office, word with the Secretary of State for Communities to and my Department is working closely with the ICO on make sure there is no discrimination among local authorities this matter. against ex-offenders; they just need to be treated fairly, the same as everyone else? Richard Burgon: The truth is that our legal aid and wider justice system is in crisis—a crisis created by this Government’s reckless cuts agenda—and the Government Mr Gauke: My hon. Friend makes a good point and seem to be trying to bury the truth about the legal aid we discuss this issue with the MHCLG. We are also crisis. The research I referred to that was hidden away working with the Local Government Association in said that the judges advance of its October commencement of the duty to refer under the Homelessness Reduction Act 2017 to “believe unrepresented defendant numbers have increased and improve partnership working between prisons, probation this is disproportionately reducing the efficiency of the courts.” providers and local authorities. So will the Government today come clean and explain to this House why such evidence from judges about the Chris Elmore (Ogmore) (Lab): Release from prison is scale of the damage the Government’s cuts are causing particularly difficult for women, and I have raised this to access to justice was removed from the published issue with the Prisons Minister, the hon.